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The o'chilli effect is sponsored by Wall
Street, Window dot Com and listeners like

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you, Yeah, yeah, Chelly
September eleven, twenty twenty three, allegedly,

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according to that thing we call a
calendar, Yeah, September eleventh,

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and it's the Ocelli effect. So
here we are. Is it a Tuesday

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like it was in two thousand and
one? Note it's a Moonday Monday,

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and I'm not normally going to broadcast
on Mondays, but I made special arrangements

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because no more Mondays for the Ocelli
effect. But yeah, I had a

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couple of guys lined up and I
thought of them as equally important. Now

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Rob Clark and our friend Doug Campbell
over there, and the Lone Gunman guy,

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the Dallas Action guy, the Quick
Hits guys. They were supposed to

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come on here because they could only
really book for the eleventh, and they

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were going to come on early,
and then Rob Clark didn't show up,

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So I don't know what happened.
I hope Rob's okay and all that.

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But I also simultaneously had the book
this guest which I am about to speak

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with, and why he's an author. He's an interesting guy. Now he

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is not you know, he doesn't
have a hundred books out there. It's

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got two. Right now, I'm
going to talk to him about his latest

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and I did speak to him about
his first, and I gotta be honest,

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right out of the gate, I
am so much happier to read this

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newer book, although I was a
little confused for a moment, and it's

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a it's not a thick book.
It's not crazy stuff. It's not you

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know, an academic you know,
cinder block, none of that. It's

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actually a very short book. It's
a very short book. It's a very

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small book, but it does contain
some substantial things. Chuck is speaking cryptically,

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that's right. The name of the
book is American Values, and the

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author's name is Sam Idolette. I'm
pretty sure I pronounced the last name correctly,

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and I'm doing my best with that. You might have heard him on

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Aaron Franz's show, you might have
heard him on my show before. But

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as for usual, look, I've
got a different style and I'm definitely going

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to take this in a different directions. So this book, again another recommends

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from me, and I usually don't
recommend books that well. I'm not sure

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what genre this is. It doesn't
matter, you know what. I don't

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recommend a lot of books that are
not, you know, straight ahead educational,

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containing historical information. I read a
lot of history, That's what I

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do. Yes, indeed, I
read some other things. I read fiction

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occasionally, not much, but I
do read fiction occasionally. Sometimes I read

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blended stuff that you know is fictional, but you know it's based on reality.

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Or maybe it's OJ's book saying that
if he did kill somebody. Never

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mind, I'm digressing. I read
a lot of stuff, hundreds and hundreds

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of books I've read, yes,
indeed, but I usually don't spend a

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lot of time on books that contained
just purely. I know right up front

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it's fiction, it's fantasy unless it
catches my fantasy, my fancy. I

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don't read a lot of imagine stories. Like I hated John Steinbeck when I

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had to study him in school.
I found it annoying. I like the

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style, I liked some of it, but I found it annoying. Some

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of Mark Twain's work, at least
the crap that they shoved down your throat

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in school, I did not enjoy
it. Now I explored Mark Twain a

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bit, and I enjoyed some of
that other stuff he was doing that they

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didn't put on the cannon for school. But generally speaking, I didn't like

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all that. Shakespeare is great,
sure, but also it's you know,

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helpful if you want to go to
sleep. It contains a lot of great

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things. It contains a lot of
interesting stories. And you know what,

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we're gonna wind up talking about stories, because again here we go. The

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name of the book is Simple American
Values. And if you go to the

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website, which I will remind you
about again before we're done, if you

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go to the really freshly minted website
not too long ago, this website was

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put together, and it's a little
stopping off point. It is American Dash

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Values dot net. That's the site, or a hyphen Maybe it's a dash,

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maybe it's a hyphen. You know
what I'm talking about here, a

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horizontal line going between the two words, uh, you know, about halfway

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up on the letters themselves. So
American Dash or American hyphen values dot net.

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That's the site for this current book. And if you go there and

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you click on the link, it'll
take you to Aaron Franz's bookshop dot org.

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Thing so that you can buy the
book through there, you know,

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and you're you're helping everybody out if
you do that. It's not that expensive.

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I recommend the physical copy of this
book, or any book, really,

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and you can do that. Or
is is there a digital version?

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Uh? Sam, so no digital
there is. There is actually one on

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Amazon. You can you can purchase
the digital edition. Yeah, but you

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have to go to Amazon for that
one. Of course you do, because

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Amazon, you know, runs way
too much stuff. And well we'll leave

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that alone. Maybe maybe I'll give
you guys the link to the Amazon as

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well, because some people have to
have their digital books. And I want

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you to read this, that's for
sure. But again my preference would be

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get your hands on a physical copy. And it's not even that many pages,

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just you know, right up front, let me see here. I

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forgot exactly how many pages, but
it's not that deep. And of course

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I don't have my magnifier in front
of me. How many pages is this,

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Sam about? I don't actually remember, no, no problem, but

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it's you know what a hundred pages
represents exactly the size of this book.

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Not very thick. It's like the
side the thickness of a commemorative magazine okay,

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and uh, you know common sort
book size, not a giant book,

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but a smaller one. So it's
not a huge thing. You're not

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gonna get choked on this thing.
You could read it at your own pace

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depending on who you are. It's
not hyper difficult. You're not like trying

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to take out of the source and
figure out what the hell is going on.

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Easily understood but not oversimplified. Now, funny because a title like American

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Value, Sam, and I'm gonna
wind up just turning it over to you

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to get you to explain this.
Because I end up with a book this

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size and it has a title like
that on it. I'm thinking to myself,

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I'm gonna get a treatise. I'm
gonna get a treatment. I'm gonna

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get a thesis that is going to
tell me about I don't know, libertarianism

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making America great again? Okay,
the social ills of the country, and

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we should talk about the values and
the values that should be and what should

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be the core values of it.
I'm thinking I'm getting Walter Cronkite's voice ready

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in my head for the audio book, because it's gonna just be like,

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now we report on the values of
America. And the cover has a road

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on it kind of reminds me of
two things. Some of the old video

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games, and there used to be
an eye test where they have this road

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thing that you stare at and it
gets blurry and it clears up, and

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it reminds me of that. It's
an interesting photo though, and it's got

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a road. And to be honest
with you, the road is representative to

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me of, well, what might
remain of American values. And meanwhile,

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this is not something that's lecturing you
this book. This is different and we're

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gonna have to get into it because
I've actually read this book in a couple

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of forms already. You showed me
some of it before it was published.

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So now I've disclosed everything I can
think of. Okay, So I want

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to turn it over to you and
have you explained to me after you did

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your your first book, and we
discussed it on this show, Dancing with

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My Fate, it's called and if
you go to Dancing with My Fate all

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one word dot com Dancing with My
Fate dot com. If you go there,

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that's the website for that book.
You got the little paper dolls on

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it. It's green and gray Green
writing on a gray book. It is

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an interesting book, make no mistake
about it, but it's from a certain

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perspective. This is a departure from
that in my mind by a long shot.

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Now I don't know why that is, because it's the same author.

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Clearly you've got a style, I
can see it. Anyway, Enough of

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that, let's get back to American
Values, which is the new book.

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But if you go and you want
a copy of Dancing with My Fate,

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I would also advise it. It'll
sit in just about the same spot on

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your bookshelf as this one does.
American Values and Dancing with My Fate are

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well, they're similar sizes. They're
similar sizes, they're they're bite size for

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the literary end of it. They're
physically not intimidating books, and they have

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some interesting things in them. Both, So there you go. I would

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see just get both. But for
today we're talking about American Values. So

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Sam, now my first question,
what provoked I mean, Dancing with My

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Fate was sort of a philosophical thing, and I'm being vague about it on

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purpose. I mean, you call
it a handbook about life and death,

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and of course I think of Beetlejuice
and that that that handbook there in that

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movie. Here I go with the
pop culture references. Whatever's wrong with me

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today? It's probably just because it's
September eleventh, and we might discuss that

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before we're done. Anyway, That
was Dancing with My Fate? What causes

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you to have to write American values? And tell me about the the genesis

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of this, because I tend to
think it came from a different place than

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Dancing with My Fate did. Yeah, yeah, it was definitely and so

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so Dancing with My Fate. As
you said, it's very philosophical, you

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know, and that book. I
had a lot of fun talking with you

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about it, you know, a
couple of years ago when I wrote it,

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and ultimately though there was something else
that needed to be said, and

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I felt it. It was it
was a something that I felt that I

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needed to get out, I know
what it was. And then as I

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started thinking about it, it was
this. You know, that book is

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a lot about acceptance, and you
know, there's some things that I really

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can't accept and you know, at
least in their current form, their contradictions,

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their paradoxes, and you know,
they're not resolvable in a way that

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I can reconcile with. You know, there's you know, horrific abuse,

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you know, how good? How
can I accept that? And you know

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and feel like I have living up
to my values right at the same time,

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you know, I want to be
authentic, you know, like you

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said, I don't want to be
Walter Cronkite, Right, I don't want

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to be you know, I lose
are my values? And now I will

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go off to you know, the
club, you know, like that's stupid,

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right, that's a contradiction. I'll
go ahead. You know, I'm

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sorry, but you're a guy who
you know, let's let's make this clear.

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In case somebody had not heard that
first show with you or didn't hear

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you with Aaron, let's just go
with this. You know, I'm dealing

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with a completely uninformed audience about you. You're a guy who served your country.

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You're a guy who had certain beliefs
about that, about your life and

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what you invested into American values and
what you invested in your fate. And

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you had something to say in that
first book that it felt like, Look,

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it was one of those things that
you had to get out, whether

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you published it or not you were
gonna have to write it, you needed

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to express it. That's the way
I feel about it. I don't think

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it was incomplete, like as if
this had to be the logical sequel,

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like, oh I missed something,
I gotta add to it. I don't

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think that was the case here.
You were definitely looking for something else that

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needed to be said. Did it
have anything to do with the journey of

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the first book though at all?
Or was it just something that you know

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came about because of well, just
your life experience in general. You said,

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Okay, I've actually got something more
that needs to be said, even

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though I thought I got out of
complete sentence the first time, I got

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something else. Is it something else
or is it an addendum? And I'm

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misinformed here, No, it's totally
something else. Yeah, I mean it

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became something else. It began as
as a question, which was that question

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of well, I want to accept
things, but I can't. What do

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I do with that? And then
it turned into a book because it's a

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very important question. You know,
it's a question of value. What is

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valuable? You know, what are
my values? And it's a kind of

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a cliche to even asked that question. In America, you know, what

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are your values? Like you said, what comes to mind is you know

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this, you know, libertarian diatribe
or you know, or or on the

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other hand, like a socialist diatribe, or you know, kind of a

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sly smile and like, you know, a wink, you know, like

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the tony soprano wink. You know. And because you added American to the

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title, you know, it's not
just about values in general, because anybody

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could discuss their value system. How
it is they weigh the value of other

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human beings is very important, definitely
becomes part of your ethos, your system,

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not just you, by the way, the general you. It's something

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that will dictate behavior and does create
situations. Now, as somebody who again

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had some life experiences, you start
questioning things, and that's what that first

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book is. What does this all
actually mean? What does it boil down

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to when I've lived this certain way
and now I come to find out that

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maybe things aren't exactly as I thought
they were at the beginning of the journey.

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And if you don't learn something along
the journey, then you were asleep,

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right, So that's just the way
it is. But what did you

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learn and what was the value of
it. Cool, great, But American

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values could be a lot of things. And indeed, when you're talking about

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the value, one of the values
that always disturbs me, you know,

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in its decline, because that could
be another thing is a massive critique on

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the society, right, it could
be another wink, not the happy wink,

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but that wink of I see you, you know, and I see

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how you've gone wrong, and I'm
gonna tell you about that. And there's

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a lot of books out there that
do that. Not what you were doing

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here, but maybe you could have
anyway, an open minded guy is what

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I end up with at the end
of Dancing with my fate. You know

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what I'm saying, somebody was not
so in lockstep with anybody else's formula that

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they can't possibly be exposed to anything
else, which at this point in our

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society is rare. So, you
know, again, let's get back to

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that title, the American values,
what are they anyway? Because there is

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the actions we see, and then
there is the rhetoric, and then there's

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the guide books and guide posts out
there, and then there's our culture,

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alleged culture anyway, because sometimes I'm
not sure, I mean, it is

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a culture in a technical sense,
But how cultured is your culture? Wrap

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your mind around that, guys.
But I mean, you know, here

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we go, what does that actually
mean? And is there a specific or

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a special thing? You know,
you hear all the time about the exceptionalism

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of Americans, American society American culture. Is it because of its diversity,

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as some people will absolutely swear up
and down that it is. Or is

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it because of a very basic core, you know, realistic way of working

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with things, a set of laws, a set of order, there is

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a set of establishment. Or is
it about the people and the fact that

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we're always changing and there is always
things in motion here. There's no stagnation

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at least in the short history of
this country. Again, as it has

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existed as a nation state only a
couple hundred years, still sort of young

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on the world map, right,
so as the culture even really realistically been

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established. And yet what is one
of the most often you sighted headings of

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anybody who wants to lecture or write
along form something or other or even be

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you know, an alleged journalist who's
out there just writing off ed pieces everywhere

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the American value system. And I
decry the fact that I see a lack

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of value being placed on human life, and I think that is at the

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bottom of every single one of the
social ills. We see the fact that

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people don't value other human beings and
don't think of them as human even in

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a lot of cases, don't recognize
them as having the same value as themselves

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or people that they think are more
like them, etc. Etc. And

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this is the imbalance that causes the
psychosis to be unleashed and terrible things to

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happen. That's the most simplistic version
of what I see. And obviously I'm

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looking to write the book about the
ills of the American values. Okay,

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I'm not trying to. It's a
joke, but either way, that's where

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my book would come from if I
titled it American Values, what the Hell's

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wrong with people? But that's not
what you did. So let's get back

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to it again about how you started
with this, and you have something else

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to say, so tell me about
it, and tell me about the first

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version of this, because the early
draft is not what you ended up with

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here. So give us, you
know, an idea how you started and

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how it transformed from what I first
saw to what we have now, which

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I made very limited comments on you
asked me take a look at this and

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tell me what you think. I
told you a couple of things, and

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then, you know, I'm not
sure why the book changed, but it

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changed. So go ahead and tell
us about that, please, and I'll

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just sit back and listen. Yeah. So actually, you know, yeah,

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Chuck, you know you read through
the first iteration of the book.

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I think you read through the first
few chapters. And it was funny because

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I read through the I've read between
the lines of kind of your comments and

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the introduction. You know, you
helped me see that it was boring.

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So I went ahead and rewrote it. I don't know if that was your

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intention, but just kind of reading
how you took it, I was like,

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you know what this is, this
is not I was going through this

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metaphor I'll answer that. Look,
I'll answer that real fast. I didn't

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say that to you directly, but
but it definitely was part of my thinking.

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And I'm being I didn't want to
be well, I wasn't trying to

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be mean. It was just like, look, you said, look,

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no, give me an honest evaluation
of this, and I read it and

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I said, I can kind of
see where you're going. You know,

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in my head this was the unedited
version. I see where you're going,

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but you're not taking me there,
And that's that's what I saw. And

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you know, I wasn't trying to
be mean or like, you know,

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look at him judging people. He
doesn't even finish his book. Yeah,

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I know, but uh, you
know which, by the way, there

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might be some news on that soon, guys. But anyway, you know,

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I wasn't trying to be like that
or overly judgmental, or you know,

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be that jerk that criticizes everybody else
but would never do it himself or

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anything like that. Obviously, I
put myself out all the time speaking,

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you know, unedited live in front
of people, because it is what it

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is. If it comes out of
my mouth right, wrong or whatever,

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I got to own it. But
so I don't have fear, like you

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know, I'm one of these guys
hiding behind and just critiquing other people.

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But at the same time, I
knew what you were going for. It

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just it didn't quite work. And
then when I saw the printed book,

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I said, okay, we we
have now gotten to that point where you've

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engaged with me. Now, so
I didn't comment much more. Yeah,

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and I wanted to leave it for
this discussion. So that's the whole answer

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on that. You're right. I
was kind of like, you're not you're

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not bringing me. You know,
you're not getting but you challenged me.

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And I appreciate that because you I
know you a little bit. I mean,

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I wouldn't say we're best friends,
but especially since I've been listening to

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your show for a long time and
I've got a good idea of your own

287
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:41.200
story because of you know, your
audiobook and your reaction to that. I

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00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:45.720
mean, I got to bring it
for real. I mean that was one

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of my biggest goals is values have
to be real, right, So if

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00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:55.079
this book is going to be valuable, I've got to dig deep. And

291
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that's what I try to do.
In the intro that I put in there

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is me and it's deep, and
I mean it's it's kind of ugly.

293
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.359
I'm putting it out there the same
as you when you come on your show

294
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.160
every day and you just put it
out there, and I'm exposing myself to

295
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:12.559
to harsh judgment potentially, you know, and that's okay, bring it on,

296
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:17.720
because you know what that's that's that's
part of the book too, is

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that you know, in order to
like, in order to find value,

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you have to invest something, right, You have to put something in,

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00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:29.400
You have to have some skin in
the game, right And and so that's

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00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:33.039
where that message resonated with me,
because you're someone that has been through quite

301
00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:37.880
a bit and I think you know
that all too well, and so it

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00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:42.039
was a good reminder for me to
do the same if I wanted to be

303
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:48.160
speaking to you on your level and
people that you know might be similar to

304
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you, people that might be different
from you, people that might have had

305
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.480
a lot of life experience, people
that might be it's kind of completely sheltered.

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You know. I wanted to be
able to to break through that regardless,

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and I know that the way to
do that is to bring it as

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real as I can, but in
a way that isn't you know, just

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you know like that that that scares
people away. So it's got to be

310
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authentic but also but measured. And
you knows that. And that's a nice

311
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.519
part of this because look, there's
a common ground between you and me.

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We have different life experiences, that's
for sure. We certainly have different voices

313
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in a in a literary sense in
a physical sense of all that. Uh.

314
00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.480
And the thing is this, though
we can come together on a couple

315
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of things. If you spend all
of your time doing nothing but protecting yourself,

316
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no matter what damage you take or
do not take in the course of

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any events in life, here's the
reality. If you spend all your energy

318
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and your time protecting yourself, you're
not going to spend a lot of it

319
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living and actually experiencing or gaining anything. So you know the old adage of

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00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:03.480
fortune favor the bold and all of
that, Well, it comes down to

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not just be bold. But here's
the thing. If you're not invested,

322
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.160
and you're not out there, and
you don't put yourself out you know what

323
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.359
do they tell you? What's when
some of the first you know, lost

324
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:18.079
love advice you ever get right,
which is, well, you know what,

325
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you gotta get back out there and
put yourself out there again, because

326
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if you don't, you'll never gain
anything. So if you spend all your

327
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:30.720
time protecting with holding, where are
you're going to go Nowhere? You'll just

328
00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:33.920
spend your time doing that, and
time will march on no matter how well

329
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or how poorly you protect yourself.
So you might as well invest get in

330
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on it, get a little dirty, and yeah, follow it, go

331
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through you know, experience, move
forward, even if it's not always pleasant.

332
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And I think you would agree with
all of those sentiments and statements,

333
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:57.599
right yeah, yeah, yeah,
absolutely. I mean that's that's part of

334
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:04.400
that's part of what the you know, the ethos of the book at the

335
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:08.359
beginning is because that's kind of the
American way, right, It's like,

336
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:11.559
roll up your sleeves, you know, get it, get out there and

337
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:15.119
get dirty and make yourself, make
a man out of yourself. No,

338
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:21.599
I mean that's and that's not a
bad thing, right, it's it's weaponized

339
00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:26.799
all the time, right that that
you know that there's that there's a you

340
00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:30.319
know, an agenda attached to that
in order to you know, sure,

341
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:34.880
they're their interests and power for sure. But at the same time, you

342
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:40.119
know, Levi jeans they're tough.
You know, you wear them outside.

343
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:42.319
They don't break down like it's great, you know. I mean that's why

344
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:48.000
people are wearing them. See in
every American story that is you know,

345
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popular, that is romanticized, that's
loved. What are they always about?

346
00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.119
They've been generationally about that? I
mean, I know today. We live

347
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:59.640
in comic book world, and yeah, there's time periods where Star Wars dominates

348
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.039
the movie and whatnot. But truth
is, what do we always wind up

349
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:07.440
going back to? You go west, you go into the wilderness, you

350
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:12.960
go forth, and you forge things
into wilderness areas, into wild areas,

351
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:18.680
into the unknown, into the danger
zone. All that that is what rings

352
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true, which just about every American, whether you like the Outlaws, or

353
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:26.400
you appreciate the frontiers, or you
want to follow the parties by wagon train,

354
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you know. Right now, one
of the most popular things and has

355
00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:33.799
been for I guess the past year
or two, is you know what the

356
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:37.519
story of Yellowstone and going forward and
ending up out there in jeez, what

357
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:42.319
was it New Mexico. I'm not
into the series, but I've gotten into

358
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:48.480
the American idealism of that. That
is something that one way or another has

359
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:52.079
continued to be translated through different generations, the different cultures that have been added

360
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:56.200
to this country, the different you
know, blending in the actual melting pot,

361
00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:00.400
it sustains itself. What is it
about? Why do we love Outlaws

362
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:06.119
in America? Even because they said, all right, I see the situation

363
00:26:06.519 --> 00:26:08.720
and I'm gonna go forward into something. Now, it's not always you know,

364
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:14.039
it's not always pleasant and everything,
and sometimes it's over romanticized. But

365
00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:17.079
even why do we love outlaws,
why do we love cowboys, why do

366
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:21.680
we love gangsters? Why did they
love John Dillinger? Okay, why did

367
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:27.079
Bonnie and Clyde matter to anybody?
Because it was still not necessarily about the

368
00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:32.640
criminality or people getting hurt, which
some people even try to sanitize. Jesse,

369
00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:37.440
James, Billy the Kid, all
of it, right, the era

370
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:41.200
of the first organized crime really in
America, which was cowboys, all right.

371
00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:45.720
They were stealing, they were stealing
from each other and ranchers, and

372
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:51.319
they were forging their own path though, that's for sure. It was independence,

373
00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:56.480
the biker, the American biker,
the motorcycle clubs, all of it.

374
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:03.039
All of our culture at its base
somewhere has that ingredient of go forward

375
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:07.920
and forwards your own path, go
into the wilderness, expand and survive.

376
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:14.880
So that's an interesting thing, and
going west is an interesting topic as well.

377
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:18.960
Let's take a look at the table
contents for a moment, okay,

378
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.200
because here we go. American conspiracy. Hell of a thing to start with.

379
00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:26.160
I think I read that right,
Is that what it was? Yea,

380
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:27.680
I'm pretty sure that was the name
of the chapter. Chapter names.

381
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.559
I'm not retaining so well. I
actually I'm looking at your book as I

382
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:37.559
speak to you, because I took
the overall story together and well stories together

383
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:41.440
as well. No, let me
not get there yet, because I'll be

384
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:47.279
skipping ahead. American conspiracy. What
the hell are you starting with that for?

385
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:52.279
Tell us about that and you know, give us a thumbnail sketch of

386
00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:59.279
the progression here through you know,
part one anyway of the book. Yeah,

387
00:27:59.319 --> 00:28:06.480
so that chap there. You know
what really started my mind, you

388
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:11.880
know, in the name of that
chapter is you know a lot of times

389
00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:18.599
there's this idea that conspiracy culture is
divisive and that there which is you know,

390
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:22.400
I'm not going to argue with that
if people are saying that, I

391
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:27.000
don't necessarily think that that's true or
false. I'm abstaining from that debate,

392
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:34.680
right. What I'm what I'm saying
in this first chapter is that, you

393
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:40.359
know, it reminds me of Aaron
Franz's piece a while back. He you

394
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:44.440
know, he had a he had
one podcast called the Conspiracy is the Conspiracy?

395
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:52.480
And to me, that is what
defines our The adolescent American experience is

396
00:28:52.480 --> 00:29:00.480
a coming of age into a into
a world full of conspiracy sees, you

397
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:03.519
know, And I used the example
we talked about an Aaron's show of the

398
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:10.359
Kurt showing thing of how you know, I personally, you know, was

399
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:18.400
subjected to advertisements glorifying chewing tobacco as
a child, and you know, emulated

400
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:23.079
the behavior of people that I saw
on television and in a way that you

401
00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:30.559
know, was aping, you know, a behavior that I couldn't understand that

402
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.680
was dangerous for me, and that
truth was, you know, and especially

403
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:37.400
in the nineties, was being concealed
from me. And that's commonplace. I'm

404
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:44.119
not stating anything, you know,
some kind of theory of anything you know

405
00:29:44.359 --> 00:29:48.759
out there that's you know, everyone
can relate to that. If you can't

406
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:52.559
relate to that, then, like
you said, you kind of have your

407
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.519
head in the sand a little bit, because it's it's just marketing, you

408
00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:00.440
know. This is this is the
American experiences that we get old enough to

409
00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:07.200
understand what the symbols mean, and
then those symbols are used to try and

410
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:14.119
you know, give us little nudges
in one direction or another direction, in

411
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:18.160
ways that we don't fully understand.
And a lot of times in ways that

412
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:22.119
a lot of people, you know, unless you invest a lot of time

413
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:27.759
and research into how it all works, we'll really never understand because it takes

414
00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:33.160
a lot of research to really even
understand how the mechanism of marketing works.

415
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.599
Right, And let's stick with tobacco
for a second here, because that's a

416
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:41.839
fascinating topic in and of itself,
because Okay, I'm a little older than

417
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:47.119
you, so and again I'm still
not in the era of this stuff was

418
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:51.880
on TV neither or you you know, you you they had sanitized it from

419
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:55.880
television and a bunch of other outlets
by the time you come along, and

420
00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:59.200
I think I was born, and
like, up to the age of one,

421
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:02.880
it would still be advertised on TV, straight up cigarette ads and stuff.

422
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:06.440
You know. The Marlboro Man was
a TV commercial and all that.

423
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:10.680
He wasn't just you know, on
the signs and stuff. But I also

424
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:15.240
was inundated with guess what Clint Eastwood
would light up every time in the spaghetti

425
00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:19.079
westerns, the tough guy, the
dark horse hero. He was lighting up

426
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:26.079
little cigarellos. Right, every tough
guy smoked. I smoked today now I'm

427
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:29.160
not saying I smoked because Clint Eastwood
had a cigar. What I'm saying is

428
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:33.400
that between that the Marlboro Man,
the tough guy symbol, the fact that

429
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:36.880
every one of those outlaw guys that
I would root for in a movie and

430
00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:40.640
a TV show, whatever, in
a comic book seemed like they all smoked.

431
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:44.240
And it was a good way for
me to be able to talk to

432
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:45.920
girls that would come and bum a
cigarette off. That was the truth.

433
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:52.799
Now you come along and they've now
gone to Joe Cambell and they've gone to

434
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:56.839
we'll give you prizes for smoking enough
cigarettes again. They did that when I

435
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.079
was a kid too, but it
was different brands. But Marlborough was turning

436
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:06.200
around and giving you cool stuff like
pool queues and pool tables and you know,

437
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:10.680
and everyone that smokes Newports are super
smoking hot and just laughing hysterically.

438
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:15.519
Oh Newports. Look that's the beach, just pure pleasures. Oh yeah,

439
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.920
pretty girls, the beach, bright
bright sunlight. The tough guys got the

440
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.680
Marlboroughs. The hot chicks though,
you know the ones that are in the

441
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:29.960
alcohol commercials. Still those women,
Yeah, that's Newports okay. And they

442
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:34.839
were marketed to specific segments of society, just like the Marlborough Man was sold

443
00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:37.240
to me. I feel like the
Marlborough Man is what sold me. They

444
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:42.400
tried to sell you on Joe Cambell, but by the time the backlash of

445
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:46.319
cigarettes was there in your age group. Hey, we got a safer alternative.

446
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:49.599
We're not going to call it a
safer alternative because we got a label

447
00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:52.400
on their The surgery General told us
to put on it. But how about

448
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:54.920
some chew that's not going to stick
up your clothes. You just gotta spit

449
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.279
in a cup or something, but
it won't stick up your clothes. And

450
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:02.200
you can be like the baseball players, and you can be like some of

451
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:06.759
these other guys. And you know
what, Clint Eastwood was chewing tobacco in

452
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:09.559
some of his movies. Later there
by the time he does Outlaw Josie Whales,

453
00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:13.200
he's spitting on the dog and making
the dog run away. Right,

454
00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:17.200
I mean, look at the images
I'm conjuring up in my head about chewing

455
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:22.240
tobacco baseball, right, Clint Eastwood? I mean, how much more?

456
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:23.920
Even though they were spaghetti westerns,
a lot of them, not the Outlaw

457
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:28.480
Josie Whales. But yeah, that
might be more Italian than American, but

458
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:31.000
no, no, no, that's
an American image, that's an American ideal.

459
00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:35.559
And it was still in our magazines
when magazines were made of paper.

460
00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:38.880
It was still there, lots of
it. And they didn't give you a

461
00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:43.839
warning about smoking on TV. That's
a weird thing I see now, violent

462
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:47.640
sexual content, foul language, and
smoking. Very weird to me that they

463
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:52.240
put that on the same level as
shooting a guy eighty times. Maybe it

464
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:53.640
is the same thing. I don't
know, but okay, I digress.

465
00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:58.319
Point is, Yeah, marketing is
an incredible thing and it's used for a

466
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:00.599
lot of different reasons, and of
course tobacco is one of those. Well

467
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:05.279
let's get your consent and let's make
you think it's a good idea to do

468
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:07.720
something that we say is a bad
idea. But look, on the other

469
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:09.840
hand, Joe Campbell as cool as
hell, isn't me? Yeah, you

470
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:14.360
don't want to be one of the
you know, straight edge dorks, you

471
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:16.599
know, And like you said,
it helps you get kids girls, man,

472
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:21.199
you go out, which you know
I mean growing up like I I

473
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:24.159
you know, I went through a
phase where I was smoking. You know,

474
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:28.719
I'm afraid to say that live because
I'm ma sure and so, but

475
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:31.360
like you know, it's true,
right, and like you know, I

476
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:35.599
would go out and I experience is
exactly what you said, where like the

477
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:38.920
older kids, you know, I
had a job at the movie theater and

478
00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:43.800
like the older kids and like the
you know, the the what I considered

479
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:46.119
so old because they were like twenty, you know, and they came out

480
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:50.960
and we would shoot the ship,
you know, and I thought I was

481
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:54.639
cool, you know, and I
smoked a lot. You know, I

482
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:59.800
got a bit of a habit for
you know, a couple of years because

483
00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:05.159
I I just you know, I
just was trying to fit in and talk

484
00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:07.880
to people and stuff like that.
And I think, and I've never gotten

485
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:10.320
I've never gotten another guy. I'm
sorry, sorry, Just just just one

486
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:13.920
thing real quick before you move on
to the point you're really trying to make,

487
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:15.920
because I love this and this is
a great little this is a great

488
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:20.960
little sub conversation that could be a
conversation all in and of itself. Here's

489
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:22.920
the funny part to me is that
I'm thirteen and I'm fourteen, right,

490
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:28.079
I looked older. And I gotta
tell you, the girls that were seventeen

491
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:30.400
and eighteen looked a lot older and
nicer to me than the thirteen year old

492
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:35.920
girls. So here's the deal,
right, they would come and bomb a

493
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:39.840
cigarette off me. I could start
a conversation that was more than a good

494
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:45.039
enough selling point outside of the addiction
I was building right away. So as

495
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:47.599
a kid like that, you're going, yeah, look, man, there's

496
00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:50.559
some of these hot I mean,
I was more of a burnout kid.

497
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:52.679
I was a long haired you know, being a musician already, that was

498
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:57.480
another thing. So there was you
know, all my peers smoked, all

499
00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:00.760
my parents smoked, so it was
commonplace and also was a social thing.

500
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:06.039
You didn't have to go outside all
the time, but you couldn't, like

501
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:07.400
say, if you were in the
mall, they would make you smoke in

502
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:12.880
the hallway, which meant that you
could congregate in the hallway and guess what

503
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.199
else, meet girls. It was
about meeting girls, and believe it or

504
00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:20.000
not, my cigarette addiction, starting
at the age of twelve, was more

505
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:23.920
about you know what I'm smoking now
that fifteen sixteen year old girls gonna come

506
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:27.559
over and talk to me and ask
me for a cigarette, and she'll stand

507
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:30.239
here and talk to me a little
while, and who knows I look a

508
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:32.000
little older, it might work.
I mean I had a beard and everything

509
00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:36.760
I got served in bars when I
was twelve. But the thing is,

510
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:40.320
that's a story for another day.
But alcohol wasn't a problem. The cigarettes

511
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:44.639
were constant, and they were a
lot easier, and nobody bothered you even

512
00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:46.639
if you were twelve and smoking.
Back then, it was like not a

513
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:51.400
big deal. Nowadays, highly judgmental. Get the hell out of the building,

514
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:53.119
Get thirty feet away from the door. I mean, you know,

515
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:57.519
go smoke. I don't care if
it's a tornado outside, Go smoke outside.

516
00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:00.280
But it was a little different than
it was really different, and it

517
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:07.840
was a social mechanism on top of
the glitzy marketing, on top of the

518
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:12.239
built in meta marketing. Almost because
it's in the movies, it's on TV.

519
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.079
Who were the people that are smoking? Tommy Lee, the drummer for

520
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:19.840
Motley Crue, you know what,
He put the cigarette in his nose in

521
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:22.320
one of his videos and blew it
back out of his mouth after he sucked

522
00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:25.960
it in through his nose. I
mean, it was like, that's the

523
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:29.280
way it worked. And I know
you, as I said that, you

524
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:31.320
probably were like, yeah, I
remember that in some flashback on the MTB

525
00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:37.840
at some point right anyway, all
that goes on, and this is a

526
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:40.880
part of it, so ultimately the
actual point you were trying to come to,

527
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:44.559
even though I kind of off roaded
for a minute here on the cigarettes

528
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:47.599
again, and I'm gonna light one
as soon as as soon as I let

529
00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:51.559
you go go right on over to
your next point. I want to go

530
00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:54.039
through this part of it because again
we've only gotten into the first chapter.

531
00:37:54.440 --> 00:38:00.559
By title, and okay, conspiracy
divisive. It is a common tig thing.

532
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:04.079
It's the uh, it's the uh
what what do we call those anymore?

533
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:07.519
People get triggered, people get I
don't know, set off, whatever

534
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:08.639
it is they call it. At
this point, I'm not keeping up with

535
00:38:08.679 --> 00:38:14.719
all the terms. It's a big
way to start a devisive conversation. It's

536
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:20.599
a big way to identify people.
It's an antisocial mechanism as opposed to the

537
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:25.119
social mechanism that cigarettes was so start. That's what I'm saying is, you

538
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:29.119
know, it's like, at the
end of the day, though, we

539
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:31.360
went out there and we smoked,
and we met really cool people and heard

540
00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:36.599
some interesting perspectives that we wouldn't have
heard right, And it's the same today

541
00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:42.159
where you know, there's this idea
of you know, oh, there's the

542
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:45.679
there's this, and there's that,
and you know there's there's dangerous and and

543
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:49.679
you know, but at the same
time, you know it's like, well

544
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:52.679
the bear, you know, you
have to kind of do something dangerous in

545
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:59.400
America to be cool, right,
So like it's a it's another contradiction.

546
00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:01.519
And that's the point I think I'm
trying to make in the first chapter is

547
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:10.199
you know, let's let's just admit
right like America, if you know,

548
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:17.440
is full so full of contradictions that
it's nearly impossible to navigate your way through

549
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:24.880
life without either being so sheltered that
you're like, you know, Steve Urkel

550
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:31.760
or you know, you've done something
to like be a bad person in some

551
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:37.519
way. You know, you're you're
one of the bad somethings, which is

552
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:44.679
also totally condoned and glorified and made
to look really really cool at the exact

553
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:49.079
same time as it's you know,
dismissed and detegrated and said, oh,

554
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:53.559
don't do that. You know,
there's it's like there's so many things in

555
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:58.679
our culture that are just like that, where you know, go to the

556
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:01.559
middle school dance but feet apart,
you know. But then you know,

557
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:06.519
turn on the TV and like Britney
Spears is Torkin again, you know,

558
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:09.760
and it's like, you know,
you I'm I'm outing myself of what generation

559
00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:14.519
I came from. But you know, it's like it's it's true. You

560
00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:20.000
know, it's like so confusing,
right for a kid. And that's where

561
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:22.599
I was trying to go, is
like, well, at least if we

562
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:28.079
don't admit that for ourselves, let's
admit that for our kids, because it's

563
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:31.679
true. And we're going to have
to reconcile with this if we want to

564
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:37.880
have any chance of identifying what we
value, because otherwise we're just kind of

565
00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:40.679
copping out because like it is a
contradiction. Well look, if you ever

566
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:44.760
reprint this and want to put a
book blurb on there, I got one

567
00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:50.119
for you from me, and it's
it goes as follows. In America at

568
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:57.800
this given frame of history, cognitive
dissidents is not a choice. It is

569
00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:02.239
the survival mechanism that is simply part
of the deal. If you want to

570
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:08.360
maintain your sanity, that's the truth
of it. Anymore, you have to

571
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:14.480
accept Remember you talked about acceptance before. You have to accept the contradictions,

572
00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:19.440
or you'll just be chasing your tail
all day like a dog. I mean,

573
00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:22.199
that's all there is to it,
you know. So again, either

574
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:27.519
you're going to waste your time running
in that circle and going nowhere see same

575
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:34.199
thing like before, or you're going
to venture forward accept that. Indeed,

576
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:37.480
the tough guy who's a good fighter
smokes, but he can't really breathe if

577
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:42.000
he's smoking for a while. You
got to accept that. Okay, that's

578
00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:45.159
just the way it is, and
you got to accept the contradictions. Right

579
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:51.639
The guy who gets busted, you
know, committing the immoral act is usually

580
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:55.480
the guy who was out there railing
against it. That is a more American

581
00:41:55.519 --> 00:42:00.599
than any apple pie. I mean, that's just the it is. Uh.

582
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:05.239
Here in Hollywood, we don't condone
gun violence unless it's in our movies

583
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:07.280
and we want to actually profit from
it, you know, you know,

584
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:15.199
like no matter where you turn,
it is the constant contradiction. Of course,

585
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:16.960
you can be anything in the world
in America, but if you're not

586
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:21.280
privileged, you ain't going nowhere near
any of this stuff. Of course,

587
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:27.280
you know. Yeah, justice is
equal for everyone, but what did they

588
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:30.599
say in animal farms some animals are
more equal than others or something like that.

589
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:38.599
I am paraphrasing. Yeah, yeah, there's a there's a quote Courtney

590
00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:44.360
Love from Whole and she she has
a line that's like I fake, It's

591
00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:47.760
so real, I'm beyond fake.
And that to me summarizes what we're talking

592
00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:53.519
about, because it's not fake,
you know, it's it's beyond fake,

593
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:59.639
because you know, you have like
like you said, the gangster missed the

594
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:05.400
boy myth. You know Ronald Reagan
smile. You know, it's so it's

595
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:09.280
genuine. It's like you just feel
like he knows something, you know,

596
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:15.679
and he probably does, you know. It's the beauty of it all.

597
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:20.519
Like we live in a time where
people forcibly take physical money and force it

598
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:23.320
into the digital world so that they
can obtain a digital product that they can

599
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:28.960
never put back in their hands.
That is just the exchange, that is

600
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:32.480
the social contract at this point in
a nutshell, let me take this pile

601
00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:37.000
of cash, go buy an NFT
that I own absolutely but I can never

602
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:40.880
actually physically put my hands on the
thing I own. Let me go buy

603
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:45.079
a piece of virtual real estate that
I can never set foot on. But

604
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:49.079
I own it. It is part
of a map. I can see it,

605
00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:54.320
and I gave tangible energy and effort
and resource to obtain it. Welcome

606
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:59.559
to America. I mean that's what
it is. So okay, let's let's

607
00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:01.280
move forward word here, because I
want to I want to do this in

608
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:05.679
a quick way, because I want
to give you guys a hint about this

609
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:07.760
book. I want to give you, guys, the idea of this book.

610
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:10.039
I don't want to give you the
whole hundred pages though in this discussion,

611
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:15.239
which is why I've lingered on a
few topics. But let's try and

612
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:19.679
move along, sam like quickly through
a couple of parts here, because and

613
00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:22.079
I don't want to go down everything
on the list. But American Conspiracy was

614
00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:27.119
a great beginner and a great like
smack across the nose to give everybody a

615
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:30.719
quick wake up. We're going somewhere, and you know, tell us about

616
00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:35.480
the different stories that come together here
and give us, you know, give

617
00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:38.559
them an idea of the journey that
we're going to go on on this well,

618
00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:43.199
I'm thinking about this road on the
front cover again, American Values.

619
00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:45.800
And yeah, there is indeed a
road with a dotted line and that road

620
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:50.920
is cracked and it goes off into
the distance. And anyway, metaphor on

621
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.480
top of metaphor, Sam tell us
about this journey, how does it how

622
00:44:53.519 --> 00:45:00.480
does it flow from there? Sure? Yeah, I mean the first So

623
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:06.239
the book is set into two sections, you know, American Dreams and American

624
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:13.840
Deserts. I named it those two
because I wanted to highlight the contrast between

625
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:19.559
the idea of America, which is
what we're talking about, which is pretty

626
00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:23.800
easily you know, contradicted, or
I mean beyond easy. You know,

627
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:29.000
it's the contradictions are apparent on the
face of it, but then you know

628
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:32.199
there is something real, you know. And I chose the desert because the

629
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:36.599
desert is kind of what when you
think of America, or I think,

630
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:43.599
especially when people that aren't American think
about America, they think about the desert

631
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:47.639
because you know, that's in France
or in Japan, or you know,

632
00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:52.360
there's so many places in the world
where or even in other places where there

633
00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:55.719
are deserts. The American desert is
so distinct and unique. You know,

634
00:45:55.800 --> 00:46:01.440
the Grand Canyon and these cowboys traversed
these wide open spaces and it's just so

635
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:07.639
you know, cool, there's something
there, you know, and then there's

636
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:09.840
the image that's kind of superimposed on
top of it. But it is there.

637
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:14.719
And if you go to the Grand
Canyon, it's beautiful, it's it's

638
00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:17.840
spiritual, you know, I said, you can feel the presence of something

639
00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:22.639
greater than yourself in that space.
That's real, and that's America. You

640
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:28.679
know, that's all of our birthright
if we would, you know, if

641
00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:31.280
we would take it. But you
know, taking it has first you have

642
00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:36.239
to identify what it even is well. And there's the problem so far from

643
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:39.559
that, there's the problem with embracing
it or accepting it. Because here's the

644
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:44.840
other difficulty. I don't know what
foreigners necessarily think of when they think of

645
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:47.760
America, because anytime I've spoken to
them about it, you know, they

646
00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:52.199
tell me about the cities, they
tell me about the culture, the pop

647
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:55.000
culture, stuff that leaks into their
culture. But I don't know what they

648
00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.559
really think of it. I do
know that Americans think of deserts, and

649
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:06.199
exactly the contradictory fashion. They think
of deserts as lifeless areas. It's dry,

650
00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:09.400
it's difficult to survive, and that's
what they think of it. As

651
00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:14.320
the obstacle. They think of it
as the dead zone. In truth,

652
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:17.159
deserts are teeming with life. I
mean, whether you're in the Grand Canyon

653
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:22.760
or you're having an experience in the
mineral rich areas in Arizona, which I

654
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:28.360
appreciated and visited with. You know
what they call Native Americans today, right

655
00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:32.159
those people when I spend time with
them there. You want to talk about

656
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:38.360
a rich setting, a rich idea
where you can embrace life, not death.

657
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:42.679
People think of Death Valley. They
think of the dryness they you know,

658
00:47:42.679 --> 00:47:46.800
what do they show us in cartoons
that's revealing the dried, bleached bones.

659
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:51.159
Indeed, there is that in the
desert, but there's a lot of

660
00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:54.480
life. And it's not just cacti
and scorpions. There's a lot of life.

661
00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:59.000
There's a lot to it. There's
a lot of energy. A desert

662
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:02.280
is something interesting, although most people, unless you're in Vegas, don't really

663
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:07.519
want to live there. For the
most part, here we go. Americans

664
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:12.880
embrace it, but at the same
time it's they're repelled away from it in

665
00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:16.639
some cases, depending on where they're
from. Ask an average American about the

666
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:22.039
deserts. They can name a couple
and the first characteristics, dry dead,

667
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:28.159
difficult to survive, maybe buzzards flying
around, bugs Bunny. I mean that's

668
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:30.159
you know, my age group anyway. I mean, is there a difference

669
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:34.719
as bugs Bunny, you know was
not quite as popular in your time?

670
00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:37.920
Maybe is there a difference or am
I misreading that as far as the way

671
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:42.440
people take deserts to me? No, I think you're right. I mean,

672
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:45.239
I think what you're hitting on is
the idea that I'm playing on,

673
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:50.840
which is the thing itself versus the
idea of the thing right, And you

674
00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:54.119
know, unlike I think a lot
of people who would be potentially you know,

675
00:48:54.280 --> 00:49:00.280
railing against the machine, Like I'm
the first to admit that I don't

676
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:04.079
know the thing itself. I've lost
touch with that. I'm trying to find

677
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:07.719
it, you know. That's that's
part of this journey is and I think

678
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:10.920
that's what a lot of Americans are
trying to find, is that authentic thing,

679
00:49:12.760 --> 00:49:17.119
you know, what is it for
real? Not this glamorized or you

680
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:22.400
know, glossy or you know,
even if it's ugly and dark, it's

681
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:27.280
like this, it's like a you
know, a drama, HBO drama,

682
00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:30.760
ugly, dark, gritty, real, you know, and it's like I

683
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:37.280
love when HBO or other you know, big big shows and movies say advertise

684
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:43.519
something as real, you know,
because it's inherently not. That's the interesting

685
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:45.760
part. And here's the other part
of it too, is even when you

686
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:51.119
see an American attempting to embrace the
American nature scene in any way, shape

687
00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:53.800
or form, what fascinates me is
that the people that do live in the

688
00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:59.000
desert, they want to focus on
the ocean. The people that live near

689
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:01.440
the ocean, they you think the
desert and the forest is wonderful. If

690
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:07.159
they live in the forest, they
might want to go see the flat lands,

691
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:12.679
or maybe they want to see the
cities the artificial ecosphere. Right,

692
00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:16.000
It's fascinating to me that they'll tell
you. And even if they're studied and

693
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:19.639
they're well read and they get into
something like I said, if you're in

694
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:22.280
Arizona and you're studying whales, that's
great, but they don't know what's right

695
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:25.760
outside their door. You know.
They turn around and they say, oh,

696
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:29.360
well, you know, okay,
you want a natural solution, here's

697
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:31.039
something you can find blah blah blah
blah blah. And they say, oh,

698
00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:35.000
well, where in the hell would
I get that from they and you

699
00:50:35.079 --> 00:50:37.199
look it up, and you look
up the region they're and you tell them,

700
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:38.239
well, as far as I can
tell where you live, it should

701
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:42.480
be growing under your feet, like
everywhere you go. And they don't know

702
00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:45.559
that. They don't know what kind
of trees are in their neighborhood. And

703
00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:51.119
they'll study whales, you know what
I'm saying. So there's always that disconnect

704
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:53.880
and that pole keeping them at a
distance from the thing that should be accessible,

705
00:50:54.280 --> 00:50:59.079
which I find fascinating too, and
I guess is again part of the

706
00:50:59.119 --> 00:51:06.039
idea of the thing versus the thing
and the absolute willful ignorance. And I

707
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:09.039
do mean ignorance in that they're ignoring, not ignorance like they're you know,

708
00:51:09.559 --> 00:51:15.440
uneducated unaware, But I guess they
are uneducated unaware. But that's not the

709
00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:19.639
main point. It's the fact that
they're literally ignoring what's right in front of

710
00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:24.400
them in favor of something else that
is again very very American. So Sam,

711
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:27.239
here's what I'm gonna do. I'm
gonna take a little break here,

712
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:31.360
and I want to concisely run through
and give people a good sketch on the

713
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:35.639
rest of this book as we go
forward. Sam Idolett is with me.

714
00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:38.639
The name of the book is American
Values, okay, and I'm gonna give

715
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:42.280
you the website right now, but
also I'm gonna give it to you again

716
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:49.000
before we're all done for sure,
all right, because American dash values or

717
00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:52.280
American hyphen values either way. Dot
net is the website. Go there.

718
00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:57.400
You can buy the book through a
link Aaron Bronze's bookshop dot org. Link

719
00:51:57.519 --> 00:52:01.159
is there. All that, and
Sam Idolette and myself will return after this.

720
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:22.280
Wall Street Street Window dot could still
the stock market. Wall Street Window

721
00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:28.840
dot dot Perhaps you're invested deeply,
perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe

722
00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:34.360
you're thinking about getting started. Wall
Street windows dot com do dot com.

723
00:52:34.360 --> 00:52:38.480
Michael Swanson, the brilliant author of
the War State, understood these trends professionally

724
00:52:38.599 --> 00:52:42.840
for many years, and now he
gives you the benefit of his knowledge.

725
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:50.599
Wall Street Street Window dot do go
there? Now go there, now go

726
00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:54.119
there? Now go ahead, calling
in the truth about the day of assassination.

727
00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:57.880
Right, well, what do you
want to know? Baker's wild claim?

728
00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:00.920
Oswald girl round you New Ruby and
Arry answer weapons? Really, I

729
00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:04.800
imagine I could claim I have four
wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon,

730
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:07.519
but Okay, Oswald was on the
juilty and trying to prevent the murder

731
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:10.679
of John Kennedy. Come on now
has a real ecort on the day Kay's

732
00:53:10.719 --> 00:53:15.840
fascination. Go into her claims.
Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker

733
00:53:16.119 --> 00:53:20.599
in her own words. You'll get
the results for a digital copy of a

734
00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:24.519
book where Walt Brown utilizes her own
words and the known evidence in the case

735
00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:30.639
to get at well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith Barry

736
00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:35.440
Baker in her own words from the
author himself signed if you request it by

737
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:40.440
contacting doctor Brown at KIA s JFK
at aol dot com. It's a fun

738
00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:46.360
book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims Judith Barry Baker in

739
00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:51.880
her own words, thank you for
all the great information in Denial the Secret

740
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:58.519
Wars with air strikes and Tanks by
Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple

741
00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:02.119
of US covert operation, and cent
are still happening today. Marry Hancock's book

742
00:54:02.199 --> 00:54:07.360
In Denial rips the cover off many
of them, using new files. It

743
00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:10.440
exposes things about the Bay of Pigs
that no one has ever written about before.

744
00:54:10.840 --> 00:54:15.679
It shows why it really failed and
why the United States did not earn

745
00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:20.400
from it. It also shows why
other countries today are doing secret operations with

746
00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:24.360
more success. This is the book
that puts what some want to deny into

747
00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:30.400
the light. In Denial Secret wars
with air strikes and tanks Larry Hancock.

748
00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:36.920
For more information, go to Larry
hyphen Hancock dot com. Pick up your

749
00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:42.559
copy of In Denial at Amazon dot
com. In digital or physical revelation through

750
00:54:42.639 --> 00:54:46.159
conversation? Do you like history?
Real history that you were never taught in

751
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:52.840
schools? Why the Vietnam War Nuclear
Bombs in nation Building in Southeast Asia by

752
00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:59.360
author Mike Swanson, with new documentation
never seen before. Fellow, open your

753
00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:04.760
eyes to events that led up to
this. Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Moms

754
00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:10.360
in nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen
forty five through nineteen sixty one. Get

755
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:16.280
your copy today at Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike

756
00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:20.320
Swamps. Hey, look, I
actually have a little offer that I want

757
00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:23.119
to drop to everybody who's on here
and anybody listening, if if you don't

758
00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:25.840
mind, mister Cooper, I'd like
to take a minute and make a little

759
00:55:25.880 --> 00:55:31.920
offer and and ask of everybody watching, listening and participating. No, not

760
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:37.639
at all. Okay. Look,
I am continuously building my little network,

761
00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:40.960
and I've got a twenty four seven
radio station. Okay, online, it's

762
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:45.360
got a bit of reach. It's
been interesting. I've had it running steadily

763
00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:50.159
without interruption for I don't know,
five seven years something like that. But

764
00:55:50.440 --> 00:55:52.880
here's the thing I would love to
get, because some people are going to

765
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:59.840
start paying to run things on my
radio station, but I don't. I'm

766
00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:02.119
not looking for money here today.
I mean, you know, I'll take

767
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:05.480
it if anybody's got something they want
to give it up, but you know,

768
00:56:05.480 --> 00:56:07.800
because I could use it, but
I'm not looking for that right this

769
00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:14.519
minute. My offer is simple.
Actually, if you have short audios that

770
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:19.719
you would like because you have a
presentation of tight five ten minutes worth of

771
00:56:19.800 --> 00:56:23.599
something that you think is absolutely worthy
of the world hearing. Okay, because

772
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:28.199
I have listeners all over the world
to that radio station. They're not in

773
00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:31.920
huge numbers all at one time,
but they're constant twenty four seven. Every

774
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:37.400
country you could possibly think of tunes
into my radio station at one point or

775
00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:39.760
another. It's not huge. It's
not like, oh, I've got millions

776
00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:45.000
of listeners. But we do have
thousands, and we have thousands of people

777
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:49.159
that tune in and catch get Mad
with Chris Graves and catch the replace and

778
00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:52.639
catch my show, which is the
Ocelli effect, and they catch the replace

779
00:56:52.719 --> 00:56:55.119
and they catch Aaron Frowns as the
age of transitions. Pretty soon they're going

780
00:56:55.159 --> 00:57:00.960
to be catching a culled priestess on
there anyway. And I've got offers to

781
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:04.440
other people to join us, you
know, working on it. But here's

782
00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:07.360
the thing, I don't care if
you're a podcaster, or if you're a

783
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:12.079
musician, or if you're just somebody
who's got some great thoughts. So you

784
00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:15.239
take the world needs to here.
Do me a favor, record them making

785
00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:21.519
MP three and send them on over
to me. I want to start populating

786
00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:25.960
the stream for the next little while
with stuff that I'm not charging anybody to

787
00:57:27.039 --> 00:57:30.639
run. It's just good stuff.
Send me your good stuff, okay,

788
00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:37.559
blind JFK researcher at gmail dot com. Just email it to me. All

789
00:57:37.639 --> 00:57:40.760
right. You got music, Maybe
you're a musician, maybe you're a podcaster,

790
00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:44.920
and you want to do an ad
for your podcast because you want other

791
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:47.039
people to listen. You haven't been
a guest on my show Maybe You Haven't

792
00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:27.559
Oh Chili dot Com second and final
segment for a Moonday and Monday, an

793
00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:31.480
unusual broadcast in the schedule now because
I don't normally do live ones on Monday,

794
00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:36.880
But what the hell I had to
I wanted to bring Sam Idolet back

795
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:40.119
on, not to discuss his first
book, although maybe we should do a

796
00:58:40.199 --> 00:58:45.119
show that focuses on both of them, because even though they're separate entities,

797
00:58:45.679 --> 00:58:49.760
they do kind of fit together too. I'm not gonna explain that. I'll

798
00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:52.440
let you guys figure that out,
and I'm not gonna ask Sam to explain

799
00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:57.119
it. Don't explain it. Sam. Sam is with me and he's like,

800
00:58:57.199 --> 00:59:00.840
whatever the hell you're talking about,
dude, Anyway, no problem.

801
00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:04.400
American Values is the name of this
book, and it's not a treatise or

802
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:07.480
a lecture on what it is you
should be doing, should not be doing,

803
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:12.440
how we're gonna make America. We're
not doing that. This is a

804
00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:17.039
journey and it's definitely you know,
hinted at indicated by the artwork on the

805
00:59:17.039 --> 00:59:22.239
book, which is a road which
I do believe is distinctively American, even

806
00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:24.639
though who knows, maybe this is
what roads look like worldwide. I haven't

807
00:59:24.639 --> 00:59:28.800
been on the road in other countries
lately. Maybe it is. Maybe it's

808
00:59:28.840 --> 00:59:34.320
not our crumbling infrastructure, our desert
in the distance, our lack of understanding

809
00:59:34.360 --> 00:59:37.159
about the thing versus the idea of
the thing. Yeah, that sounds like

810
00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:40.920
America to me. And that's what
we've discussed so far. But Sam,

811
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:45.880
you tell different stories in here,
and I do want to ask. Unfortunately,

812
00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:49.599
I'm gonna ask one of the same
questions Aaron did, and ask you,

813
00:59:49.599 --> 00:59:53.320
you know, how much of this
stuff is well just nonfiction you're reporting,

814
00:59:53.880 --> 01:00:00.440
and how much of this is a
creation and addendum maybe to a life

815
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:05.880
experience that you've intentionally laid out.
I mean, give us an idea of

816
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:08.719
how this is structured. Like a
reader is going to get some different stories

817
01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:15.119
here under these different chapter headlines,
and they're going to get an overall journey.

818
01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:17.320
So give us an idea of how
those stories are laid out, and

819
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:22.119
also how much of it is directly
and straight up drawn from life, and

820
01:00:22.159 --> 01:00:27.480
how much of it is maybe tweaked
added to in order to make certain points.

821
01:00:27.960 --> 01:00:30.360
And again, we're not going to
give you the whole point of the

822
01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:34.119
book. Then you won't want to
read the hundred pages, but I encourage

823
01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:38.079
you to do so and go to
American Dash or hyphen either way, American

824
01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:43.559
Dash values dot net. That's the
website. You can go right there.

825
01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:46.239
There's only one thing to really click
on it, you know, and it

826
01:00:46.320 --> 01:00:51.360
is a link to go buy it
at bookshop dot org, which is Aaron

827
01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:54.239
Franz's link. So I encourage you
use that, and I encourage you to

828
01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:58.559
get the physical book. I'm going
to find the Amazon link as well in

829
01:00:58.599 --> 01:01:01.800
case you really want to just have
the book. But I definitely think that

830
01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:06.480
having this book it's not going to
take up a lot of space on your

831
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:08.159
bookshelf. It could take up a
lot of space in your head though,

832
01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:13.840
depending on how you read it.
And you have choices here. Anyway,

833
01:01:14.519 --> 01:01:17.079
Sam, enough out of me.
Tell me about this book, the journey,

834
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:21.719
the different stories, you know,
Shoot, go ahead and it'll be

835
01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:23.599
a short segment. But I want
to give you the time to tell that

836
01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:29.280
to the listener. Yeah, so
we you know, when we left off,

837
01:01:29.320 --> 01:01:34.280
we're talking about you know, dreams
versus deserts and the thing versus the

838
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:37.920
idea of the thing. And one
thing I wanted to mention, you know,

839
01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:45.480
is a big key part of this
book is you know, exploring like

840
01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:50.079
who is we versus them? Right, because that's a big part of being

841
01:01:50.079 --> 01:01:54.199
American too, is you know,
this this debate because you know, it's

842
01:01:54.239 --> 01:02:00.239
not like we have some kind of
shared ethnic or cultural background. I mean,

843
01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:07.719
America is a melting pot. So
you know, we are potentially everybody

844
01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:10.880
right. I mean, as long
as you are here and and and want

845
01:02:10.920 --> 01:02:17.679
to participate in society in some way, you're you know American, right,

846
01:02:17.719 --> 01:02:24.719
and and so that's you know,
an important thing to recognize. So you

847
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:29.679
know, with that, with that
being said, you know, one of

848
01:02:29.719 --> 01:02:32.360
the things that's really important in my
in my book is kind of a revelation

849
01:02:32.559 --> 01:02:39.760
that we are they right? Like
when when when so many people are using

850
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:44.880
words like they, it's it's very
slap dash, it's very haphazard. If

851
01:02:44.920 --> 01:02:49.480
these are things that are you know, kind of assumed or you know,

852
01:02:49.559 --> 01:02:53.079
talked through. But you know,
you chuck a lot of times, You'll

853
01:02:53.119 --> 01:02:59.760
you'll bring up the idea of the
invisible uh majority of people, right,

854
01:02:59.800 --> 01:03:04.119
I mean kind of hearkens back to
Republican silent majority, and that's putting a

855
01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:07.039
label on it, right, But
like in reality, the invisible majority or

856
01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:13.079
the It really is just fact that
the majority of the people of paycheck to

857
01:03:13.159 --> 01:03:17.159
paycheck more than just a majority,
I mean, the large majority of people

858
01:03:17.199 --> 01:03:22.880
work paycheck to paycheck. You know, are are struggling, you know,

859
01:03:22.159 --> 01:03:30.679
are struggling with mental health stuff,
have you know, debt, have challenges,

860
01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:32.679
are trying to just kind of get
a leg up in the world.

861
01:03:34.360 --> 01:03:38.800
Some perhaps more than others. I
think there's obviously distinctions between those things,

862
01:03:38.840 --> 01:03:45.360
but ultimately between the true halves and
the halves knots. You know, the

863
01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:51.000
majority of people are are way down
on the halves knots. You know that

864
01:03:51.159 --> 01:03:54.440
that's just true, and that's not
necessarily like a comment about what ought to

865
01:03:54.480 --> 01:03:59.400
be or anything like that, but
it's just a fact. It's a simple

866
01:03:59.400 --> 01:04:03.079
matter of sam Because you've got a
bunch of billionaires in this country, which

867
01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:09.039
we do, and you tell me
that the mean average of income is somewhere

868
01:04:09.079 --> 01:04:13.519
around one hundred thousand dollars, that
means there's a whole lot of people that

869
01:04:13.639 --> 01:04:15.679
got to be making ten and twenty
thousand dollars, which, as we know,

870
01:04:15.840 --> 01:04:19.480
especially in the past couple of years, means guess what, you're barely

871
01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:26.440
surviving If that and there's a lot
more of them than there are the billionaires.

872
01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:30.039
In order to get to that one
hundred thousand dollars, to bring the

873
01:04:30.079 --> 01:04:32.400
mean average down, you need a
lot of ten thousand dollars earners, You

874
01:04:32.440 --> 01:04:35.880
need a lot of five thousand dollars
earners, twenty thousand dollars earners, thirty

875
01:04:35.880 --> 01:04:41.639
thousand dollars earners. And that's for
whole families in most cases. I mean,

876
01:04:41.840 --> 01:04:45.760
my family currently disclosure, you know
what, we live on less than

877
01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:49.840
thirty thousand dollars, three of us, right, guarantee it. That's just

878
01:04:49.880 --> 01:04:53.000
the way it is. I'm not
trying to cry about it. I'm just

879
01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:56.519
telling you that's the way it is. And the majority of people I encounter

880
01:04:57.039 --> 01:05:00.800
are in about the same boat as
me. Where there are one hundred and

881
01:05:00.800 --> 01:05:04.000
twenty thousand dollars or one hundred thousand
dollars earners that that mean average represents,

882
01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:10.760
and they exist. But there's a
lot of room in order to create that

883
01:05:10.840 --> 01:05:15.440
average between the bezos and me,
you know what I'm saying. So,

884
01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:19.199
yeah, there's that reality going and
and and not to go off on a

885
01:05:19.280 --> 01:05:24.360
tangent, but I mean I would
even say that, you know, depending

886
01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:28.800
on where you live. I mean, this is gonna sound maybe like not

887
01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:32.760
resonant with people, but like a
family one hundred grand where I live in

888
01:05:32.840 --> 01:05:38.039
Washington, DC area, where rents
are astronomical, it doesn't go as far

889
01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:40.880
as you might think. No,
not at all, you know. So

890
01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:44.920
I mean I'm not saying that like
people shouldn't be grateful if they make that

891
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:47.159
much. But it's not like they're
like, you know, let's go out

892
01:05:47.199 --> 01:05:50.840
to eat every day. It's like
no, but no, you're like,

893
01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:57.159
okay, you're budgeting exactly. I'm
from Jersey, right, so in New

894
01:05:57.239 --> 01:06:00.599
Jersey, if I was to take
that hundred thousand dollars is there, I

895
01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:06.280
would live on maybe the same kind
of level that I do on thirty thousand

896
01:06:06.280 --> 01:06:11.599
here in Georgia. Okay, I'm
serious. If I'm lucky. If I'm

897
01:06:11.639 --> 01:06:14.320
lucky, and in some parts of
Jersey, I can't survive, I can't

898
01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:17.400
even be there. So real simple, and that's my that's my home.

899
01:06:17.480 --> 01:06:21.280
I miss my home. I'm actually
homesick all the time for Jersey. I

900
01:06:21.400 --> 01:06:25.840
love it, love the food,
missed the shore. It's not the same

901
01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:28.360
ocean. I don't care if they
call it the Atlantic here. It just

902
01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:32.960
ain't bottom line that you and if
I went to New York, I mean,

903
01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:36.280
homeless people do better to me in
New York begging for change. I

904
01:06:36.320 --> 01:06:41.000
mean, that's the truth. I'm
not even trying to be hyperbolic here,

905
01:06:41.159 --> 01:06:45.440
that's just the reality. So it
is a regional experience in this country too,

906
01:06:45.880 --> 01:06:48.840
you know where they talk about the
outrageous, outlandish taxes of California.

907
01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:54.079
Yeah, but even if you're sweeping
floors, you're making better money then some

908
01:06:54.159 --> 01:06:58.119
of the people here doing really important
jobs where they're in charge of human beings

909
01:06:58.159 --> 01:07:01.519
and people's safety and all kinds of
stuff. I mean, a guy literally

910
01:07:01.559 --> 01:07:05.239
sweeping up in a barbershop and in
Los Angeles might make more than a cop

911
01:07:05.559 --> 01:07:09.679
here in Georgia. Telling you that's
the way it is, Yeah, it's

912
01:07:09.679 --> 01:07:12.760
true. Yeah, I mean yeah, so you know, so all that's

913
01:07:12.800 --> 01:07:16.239
to say, you know, the
reason that's important is because you know,

914
01:07:16.280 --> 01:07:19.519
when we think about what we value, who's we and who say? You

915
01:07:19.559 --> 01:07:24.679
know, it's like the majority of
people have certain values, you know,

916
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:28.440
what are they? You know,
and it's it's a way of being,

917
01:07:28.519 --> 01:07:31.519
it's a way of acting, you
know, and what's okay you know,

918
01:07:31.559 --> 01:07:35.599
and what's not okay? And we
get to define that, and you know,

919
01:07:35.639 --> 01:07:42.039
I think that what's reflected to us
in media and in marketing, but

920
01:07:42.159 --> 01:07:47.440
also just in movies and music,
and you know, everything is really not

921
01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:51.280
you know, and I know like
a lot of times that will be kind

922
01:07:51.280 --> 01:07:57.000
of painted on with more of a
right wing you know, Christian Chris Christian

923
01:07:57.079 --> 01:08:00.719
view, but I think let's just
let's just put that aside, and you

924
01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:04.960
know, just kind of it doesn't
really reflect the daily like Little Wayne's life

925
01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:10.239
does not reflect my experience in any
way, you know, you know,

926
01:08:10.480 --> 01:08:14.440
or you know even someone anybody you
know, Dean Martin, you know,

927
01:08:14.719 --> 01:08:18.479
eighty years ago or whatever, like
over the past, since about the nineteen

928
01:08:18.560 --> 01:08:26.920
fifties and maybe since John Steinbeck,
right, the reflections that we're being served

929
01:08:27.760 --> 01:08:31.840
are not accurate. You know,
they kind of seem almost attainable, like

930
01:08:31.960 --> 01:08:35.880
especially when I was growing up,
like movies like you know, the college

931
01:08:36.199 --> 01:08:42.159
funny college movies of like the frat
boys having fun, and it's like it

932
01:08:42.359 --> 01:08:45.159
almost seems attainable until you realize that, like you're probably not really going to

933
01:08:45.239 --> 01:08:48.920
get into a frat because you know, you you don't you know, you

934
01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:53.920
don't know people like that, and
you know you might get invited, but

935
01:08:53.960 --> 01:08:57.840
then you're just kind of gonna get
made fun of by the actual frat boys.

936
01:08:57.920 --> 01:09:00.199
And you know, the the hot
chicks that are in the movies are

937
01:09:00.920 --> 01:09:03.960
you know, only really interested in
those guys because they know you know,

938
01:09:04.119 --> 01:09:08.680
you know, And I'm not denigrating
like fraternities or anything like that, but

939
01:09:08.720 --> 01:09:12.319
I'm saying, like, for me
personally, it was a wake up call,

940
01:09:12.680 --> 01:09:15.960
you know, one that even got
to experience college. But like you

941
01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:20.439
know that that idea of like what
I saw it kind of seemed obtainable to

942
01:09:20.479 --> 01:09:24.800
me in high school, but then
it was quick realization once I got there

943
01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:29.119
that it's like not obtainable at all. Like I'm completely different from that.

944
01:09:30.520 --> 01:09:33.159
And that's the reality for you know. And obviously it's more extreme things when

945
01:09:33.199 --> 01:09:36.640
it comes to like you know,
super fame, you know, Johnny Depp

946
01:09:36.760 --> 01:09:42.439
or something that's obviously Brad Pitt,
you know, And so I call that

947
01:09:42.479 --> 01:09:47.000
out and then you know, the
the ultimate driving conclusion of all of this

948
01:09:47.039 --> 01:09:53.159
without I don't think it spoils the
book to say, you know, in

949
01:09:53.239 --> 01:09:59.279
order to find value, we all
we have to do is look at ourselves

950
01:10:00.039 --> 01:10:03.039
and the people around us. Like
you said, it's and I think there

951
01:10:03.119 --> 01:10:09.800
is a romantic say romanticization about that
of like the natural world and let's go

952
01:10:09.920 --> 01:10:13.279
camping and things. But that's you
know, you gotta you gotta peel that

953
01:10:13.359 --> 01:10:15.279
back a little bit. And it's
like, you know, I just listen,

954
01:10:15.399 --> 01:10:18.279
like I was telling you during the
break, like you know, you

955
01:10:18.319 --> 01:10:20.880
were saying, oh, I talked
too much. It's like, no,

956
01:10:21.279 --> 01:10:25.079
Chuck, you're you're you, and
this is your show. And I listen

957
01:10:25.119 --> 01:10:27.640
to your show a lot because I
like hearing what you have to say,

958
01:10:28.600 --> 01:10:30.640
you know, and you keep it
real and you bring it and I enjoy

959
01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:38.039
that more so than I enjoy you
know, Rachel Maddow talking because she's boring

960
01:10:38.479 --> 01:10:43.680
and she's talking off of a script
anyway, you know, and it's not

961
01:10:43.800 --> 01:10:47.520
real. She's manipulate, she's trying
to manipulate me. And there's a whole

962
01:10:47.520 --> 01:10:54.119
machine apparatus, you know. And
it's not just Rachel Maddow. I mean,

963
01:10:54.159 --> 01:10:58.399
it's it's all of these people,
including the people on YouTube that are

964
01:10:58.399 --> 01:11:00.720
claiming to be you know it deep. Like I talked about with Aaron,

965
01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:04.239
It's like there are a whole lot
of people out there that are not being

966
01:11:04.279 --> 01:11:10.359
authentic, but you are. And
that's valuable to me. And yet I

967
01:11:10.399 --> 01:11:16.239
could never attain the reward that you
know, an influencer does on Instagram or

968
01:11:16.279 --> 01:11:24.800
TikTok because I'm not as easily marketable. Right, reality is, you know,

969
01:11:24.960 --> 01:11:27.199
you can market it, you can
package it. And we went through

970
01:11:27.239 --> 01:11:30.359
a time period not long ago where
reality TV was the biggest thing, and

971
01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:35.039
reality this and that. Right,
true crime we're still going through it.

972
01:11:34.800 --> 01:11:40.239
What is a big, huge genren
podcast true crime? Well, take a

973
01:11:40.279 --> 01:11:45.079
look at true crime. It's usually
about somebody's personalized agenda. And what do

974
01:11:45.159 --> 01:11:47.600
you do. You tune in there
to hear about horrible things that you think

975
01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:51.800
are at a distance from you,
and you're constantly being reminded because it's part

976
01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:57.000
of the fear porn system that you
know what, this could happen to anybody

977
01:11:57.039 --> 01:12:00.800
in any tone America And get ready, because here was a wholesome girl and

978
01:12:00.840 --> 01:12:05.119
now she's dead and so we're gonna
find out what happened, and you know,

979
01:12:05.319 --> 01:12:12.239
and and it's like and people lock
into that, and they reward that.

980
01:12:12.920 --> 01:12:15.479
They reward people that are going to
give them fear porn. They reward

981
01:12:15.600 --> 01:12:19.039
people that are going to show them
the terrible I mean, you go to

982
01:12:19.079 --> 01:12:23.720
TikTok today, and I'll give you
a weird example of stuff on TikTok or

983
01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:28.760
whatever. There's babies on there that
you know, the mamas are shooting videos

984
01:12:28.760 --> 01:12:30.279
of them, and they're sick kids. They're really really sick. I mean,

985
01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:34.159
God Like, you're looking at kids
that should be learning how to walk

986
01:12:34.199 --> 01:12:40.399
and crawl and they are immobilized because
of an illness, because of their spine,

987
01:12:40.479 --> 01:12:45.960
because of a birth effect or something, and they're on TikTok and they're

988
01:12:45.079 --> 01:12:50.880
monetized because so many people will go
there to let their heart ache from a

989
01:12:50.920 --> 01:12:59.079
distance, to have the surrogate experience
instead of the experience. And that's the

990
01:12:59.119 --> 01:13:03.640
world. Have the surrogate experience,
or you can experience it youself. You

991
01:13:03.680 --> 01:13:08.079
can deal with the scripted, or
you can go look at the reality.

992
01:13:08.600 --> 01:13:13.680
And meanwhile, if all you are
is an audience member and an onlooker,

993
01:13:14.920 --> 01:13:18.199
what have you actually accomplished outside of
helping to fill somebody's pocket and becoming,

994
01:13:18.239 --> 01:13:24.000
you know, a member and becoming
part of the thing that is this group,

995
01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:27.239
this group that you never even get
into a group to form, but

996
01:13:27.319 --> 01:13:32.680
it is a group right here.
We go vicariously always, yeah, and

997
01:13:32.720 --> 01:13:36.000
I mean so I go to Vegas, right, So I think that's what

998
01:13:36.119 --> 01:13:40.399
you're kind of aiming at here,
is that in the book, you know,

999
01:13:40.600 --> 01:13:45.520
I go to Vegas, and I'd
like to compare social media with a

1000
01:13:45.640 --> 01:13:49.640
casino because you know, people to
this day, I think, you know,

1001
01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:55.880
people really misunderstand the business model of
social media. And you know,

1002
01:13:55.920 --> 01:13:59.840
we're not the customer, right,
you know, the where the rama to

1003
01:14:00.039 --> 01:14:06.840
areal that creates the product and then
you know we are the the consumer of

1004
01:14:06.920 --> 01:14:14.279
the advertisements and things. You know, So the product is that our behaviors

1005
01:14:14.279 --> 01:14:19.119
are shaped in ways that their true
customers desire. Right, That's the that's

1006
01:14:19.159 --> 01:14:25.680
the product. And so you know
it's as simple as that ultimately, and

1007
01:14:25.880 --> 01:14:30.119
you know, our data is there, is there, you know, material

1008
01:14:30.640 --> 01:14:36.520
that they use to create this product, and you know we we give them

1009
01:14:36.560 --> 01:14:41.560
that you know, freely all the
time. And you know it's, uh,

1010
01:14:41.600 --> 01:14:46.640
it's it's something that I wish more
people would would take more seriously.

1011
01:14:46.760 --> 01:14:51.399
How much how dangerous that is?
I think, you know, it's like

1012
01:14:53.319 --> 01:14:57.239
it's almost like going up against the
ocean, like you think you're safe,

1013
01:14:57.439 --> 01:15:01.000
you know, but it doesn't if
the if there's a really bad you know,

1014
01:15:02.119 --> 01:15:05.960
conditions like it doesn't matter how you
You know, Michael Phelps could drown

1015
01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:11.520
in the ocean. You know,
you're deluding yourself if you think that you

1016
01:15:11.520 --> 01:15:15.600
know you can go up against this
thing and come out completely unscathed, because

1017
01:15:15.600 --> 01:15:19.239
you can't. The entire purpose of
it is to manipulate you, and it's

1018
01:15:19.239 --> 01:15:25.800
got a billion dollars budget to do
it. Seeing an interesting idea here which

1019
01:15:25.840 --> 01:15:30.119
you which you definitely convey, whether
you know whether it's on the nose or

1020
01:15:30.159 --> 01:15:33.359
not, I'm gonna go for it. I think this is relevant and this

1021
01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:39.560
is one of the believe it or
not, the metaphor keys to this entire

1022
01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:43.319
book, which is again only one
hundred pages. American Values, American hyphen

1023
01:15:43.399 --> 01:15:47.039
Values, or American dash Values.
Dot net is the website. But here's

1024
01:15:47.079 --> 01:15:53.640
the thing. Social media Vegas.
Okay, these types of places, all

1025
01:15:53.640 --> 01:15:57.800
this stuff, you got bells and
whistles and rewards that come out like buttons.

1026
01:15:57.840 --> 01:16:00.279
Attention. All of it is there, with the pretty colors and the

1027
01:16:00.279 --> 01:16:06.039
flashing lights to get you to engage
with your fingertips, to fund it,

1028
01:16:06.159 --> 01:16:11.239
to be the funding mechanism for at
the end of the day, it's all

1029
01:16:11.239 --> 01:16:15.319
about collecting. Like that line in
Casino, all of the trips, all

1030
01:16:15.359 --> 01:16:17.680
of the comps, all of the
circumstance, all of the flashing lights,

1031
01:16:17.720 --> 01:16:20.880
the pretty girls, the free drinks. At the end of the day,

1032
01:16:20.920 --> 01:16:25.960
what is it about. Here's a
vaults, here's a room with the money

1033
01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:30.000
in it, and you walk away
broke. No matter what, the house

1034
01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:34.000
always wins, and we're going to
engage with you on this very basic level

1035
01:16:34.039 --> 01:16:39.319
where you're rewarded with the dopamine.
And that's it. And that's what I

1036
01:16:39.399 --> 01:16:44.159
read in the subtext of your book. Now tell me I'm wrong, and

1037
01:16:44.520 --> 01:16:48.000
I'll apologize that I misread your book, but I think that's where it's at.

1038
01:16:48.119 --> 01:16:50.760
That's a big, huge key to
this. Am I right or wrong?

1039
01:16:55.199 --> 01:16:58.520
Oh? You're right. I mean
that scene in Casino where they show

1040
01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:05.359
where they show the you know,
the the mechanism, right where like they're

1041
01:17:05.399 --> 01:17:09.600
counting the money and then they just
put a little percentage in a in a

1042
01:17:09.640 --> 01:17:13.560
bag and then one guy walks in
there and picks up the bag, and

1043
01:17:14.319 --> 01:17:17.279
you know, it's like three or
four people even really understand what's even happening.

1044
01:17:17.760 --> 01:17:21.960
Right, But then you know,
Joe Pesci, you know, makes

1045
01:17:21.960 --> 01:17:26.960
a whole bunch of money, right, Like that's you know, that's that's

1046
01:17:27.239 --> 01:17:31.039
that's a very good I think illustration. On the other hand, it's kind

1047
01:17:31.079 --> 01:17:34.840
of like messed up because you know, I mentioned Joe Pesci. I mean

1048
01:17:34.840 --> 01:17:40.359
this is we're being entertained, right, you know. And then there's even

1049
01:17:40.399 --> 01:17:45.079
a movie saying are you not entertained? Like, oh no, I'm being

1050
01:17:45.199 --> 01:17:47.960
entertained about how the masses are being
fooled. Well, but that's the idy

1051
01:17:48.039 --> 01:17:51.199
of it, because look that guy
who goes through there and actually knows what

1052
01:17:51.239 --> 01:17:55.680
to do and goes in and surgically
is just the bagman picking stuff up.

1053
01:17:56.000 --> 01:17:59.039
The beauty of it. And Russell
Crowe and Gladiator said that that's one of

1054
01:17:59.119 --> 01:18:03.600
my favorite lines in any movie anytime. Are you entertained is not what you're

1055
01:18:03.640 --> 01:18:08.800
here for? Yes it is.
And here's the sad part. That guy

1056
01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:11.840
walking in and out of that casino
is there to pick up the skin.

1057
01:18:12.560 --> 01:18:16.199
It is only a very small part. See the whole gangsterism. They built

1058
01:18:16.199 --> 01:18:20.199
a hotel, they did this,
they funded it, all that stuff.

1059
01:18:20.199 --> 01:18:25.359
It's about that bag What does he
have to do in order to go extract?

1060
01:18:25.439 --> 01:18:28.000
And he walks through the casino,
he sees all the lights, he

1061
01:18:28.039 --> 01:18:30.439
sees all the people, a thousand
people out there, those thousand people,

1062
01:18:30.520 --> 01:18:34.399
what has it boiled down to at
the end account nobody understands, a room

1063
01:18:34.439 --> 01:18:40.520
nobody sees, and the actual profit
that occurs that has nothing to do with

1064
01:18:40.640 --> 01:18:45.479
the actual experience of the people who
are actually causing this to happen, which

1065
01:18:45.520 --> 01:18:48.600
is if nobody shows up at the
casino. Donald Trump proved this in real

1066
01:18:48.680 --> 01:18:54.800
life. If nobody shows up at
the casino or it's not run just so,

1067
01:18:55.520 --> 01:18:59.399
guess what it goes under, even
in Atlantic City three times. So

1068
01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:02.079
anyway, it's a joke, all
right, And I know it just pissed

1069
01:19:02.079 --> 01:19:05.000
off people. But whatever it is, it is I find it funny.

1070
01:19:05.359 --> 01:19:09.800
Sam, Let's let's get wrap a
bow on this, because again I want

1071
01:19:09.840 --> 01:19:12.640
to I want people to go pick
up the book. I want them to

1072
01:19:12.680 --> 01:19:15.119
see where it is that you take
us on this journey, because it's not

1073
01:19:15.199 --> 01:19:18.520
just you making these statements here.
You're not just like here, look,

1074
01:19:18.560 --> 01:19:24.119
here's two sentences of a metaphor.
Bang. This is not means this is

1075
01:19:24.159 --> 01:19:29.000
a trip. You are on this
road in my mind in this book,

1076
01:19:29.039 --> 01:19:31.840
you're on this road. I don't
know if that was your entire intent to

1077
01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:36.720
begin with, but it definitely became
your intent. And I think that as

1078
01:19:36.720 --> 01:19:43.039
you take us through and you give
us the slices of Americano in different places.

1079
01:19:43.079 --> 01:19:45.279
Again, you know, you started
with conspiracy, right, and then

1080
01:19:46.079 --> 01:19:49.319
let me just go to my reference
here. You went to the illusion,

1081
01:19:49.520 --> 01:19:55.279
you went to memory, you went
to reckoning, great progression there. It

1082
01:19:55.359 --> 01:19:59.920
reminds me very much of what do
we go through when the stages agree?

1083
01:20:00.359 --> 01:20:02.920
Right, and I always put them
out of order, but it doesn't matter

1084
01:20:02.960 --> 01:20:06.880
because they could be ordered differently,
but either way you're gonna go through them.

1085
01:20:06.920 --> 01:20:10.680
So one way or another, you
could reorder these chapters and you're gonna

1086
01:20:10.720 --> 01:20:15.960
go on that journey at some point
if you bother to do anything but accept

1087
01:20:16.159 --> 01:20:20.439
the cognitive dissonance, accept the constant
contradictions. As soon as you start to

1088
01:20:20.560 --> 01:20:26.479
question, you have guaranteed yourself the
grief cycle, except it's Sam's version of

1089
01:20:26.479 --> 01:20:29.239
it, right, this is the
way I see it, Okay. And

1090
01:20:29.279 --> 01:20:35.319
then the American deserts, the right, American outcasts, American gamblers, American

1091
01:20:35.359 --> 01:20:41.520
heretics, American utopia. At the
end of the day, whether people believe

1092
01:20:41.560 --> 01:20:45.319
we can get to a utopia or
we're in one already. You know,

1093
01:20:45.399 --> 01:20:46.760
the whole. This is the greatest
country in the world. No matter what

1094
01:20:46.800 --> 01:20:50.680
you say, don't say anything else, you know, no matter what,

1095
01:20:51.199 --> 01:20:55.119
American utopia has to be there.
It could be at the front of the

1096
01:20:55.199 --> 01:20:59.800
chapters though there in that second part. It could be your beginning point because

1097
01:20:59.840 --> 01:21:02.319
you bought the illusion. Oh whoops, we gotta put the illusion first.

1098
01:21:02.760 --> 01:21:06.560
Oh that's right, it's in the
first part. I'm telling you this journey.

1099
01:21:06.600 --> 01:21:11.439
You could change the order of it
a bit, and maybe it is

1100
01:21:11.479 --> 01:21:15.079
similar to your journey. Not your
Sam, I mean you, the listeners.

1101
01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:17.960
You the listener, You, the
person who's ear I'm in right now,

1102
01:21:18.199 --> 01:21:21.399
who I appreciate, by the way, who is actually taking the time

1103
01:21:21.399 --> 01:21:25.439
to listen to me run off at
the mouth and hearing Sam talk about this

1104
01:21:25.479 --> 01:21:28.199
book. I don't want you to
just hear Sam talk about it. I

1105
01:21:28.239 --> 01:21:30.880
want you go get it. I
definitely endorse this. It is a read

1106
01:21:31.479 --> 01:21:38.399
that should should provoke more thought on
something that, whether you knew it or

1107
01:21:38.439 --> 01:21:41.640
not, you should have been thinking
about all along, and many of us

1108
01:21:41.680 --> 01:21:45.880
have been. I think it is
a helper even if you've already been there.

1109
01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:47.159
You say to yourself, look,
I've already thought through this. Sam.

1110
01:21:47.199 --> 01:21:50.000
I don't need to go through this
journey. I think you should.

1111
01:21:50.960 --> 01:21:57.920
Sam's way of writing about this is
different than what I'm accustomed to. Again,

1112
01:21:58.079 --> 01:22:00.800
it's not a lecture, it's not
a man some judgment. It is

1113
01:22:01.079 --> 01:22:05.560
an exhibition. And again I don't
know how much of it's real. I

1114
01:22:05.600 --> 01:22:09.800
don't know how much of it is
you know, straight up, just your

1115
01:22:09.840 --> 01:22:14.720
experience. One. I'm glad,
yeah you did, but that's okay.

1116
01:22:14.880 --> 01:22:16.640
Maybe one of you guys can figure
it out after you read it, let

1117
01:22:16.680 --> 01:22:19.880
me know, or maybe we'll do
a part two with you Sam. So

1118
01:22:20.119 --> 01:22:23.760
with that, I turned it over
to you. Whatever it is you think

1119
01:22:23.760 --> 01:22:25.600
you want to end on, I
give it to you. And I'm sorry

1120
01:22:25.600 --> 01:22:27.920
it took you an hour and a
half. I meant to only take you

1121
01:22:27.920 --> 01:22:30.680
an hour. But what the hell? This was worth it, even this

1122
01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:33.000
hundred pages. I probably could have
read the book tell you quicker guys out

1123
01:22:33.000 --> 01:22:39.039
there, but anyway, I didn't. I want you guys to consider this,

1124
01:22:39.159 --> 01:22:43.800
consider the conversation. Some of the
off roading we did is valuable to

1125
01:22:43.840 --> 01:22:46.760
the book, but I think is
also relevant and important enough that we had

1126
01:22:46.760 --> 01:22:51.560
this conversation. And I appreciate your
indulgence and patience. I definitely think you

1127
01:22:51.600 --> 01:22:57.560
did well. I don't want to
sound mean, but this is an improvement

1128
01:22:57.560 --> 01:23:00.159
over the other book. The other
book was good, but this, to

1129
01:23:00.199 --> 01:23:06.680
me is a clear evolution and is
well. I value this book more than

1130
01:23:06.680 --> 01:23:10.680
the other one. I like the
other one, but I value this book

1131
01:23:10.720 --> 01:23:13.640
more because this, to me,
is the kind of thing that we should

1132
01:23:13.680 --> 01:23:17.279
all be thinking about a lot more. What does this mean? Since we're

1133
01:23:17.359 --> 01:23:21.359
here, let's come down to it. Instead of arguing about what America should

1134
01:23:21.399 --> 01:23:25.239
be, how we're going to change
it with our next vote? Vote harder.

1135
01:23:25.319 --> 01:23:29.279
That'll help. Look, if that's
what you think is going to solve

1136
01:23:29.279 --> 01:23:33.039
it, I'm not going to argue
with you, but I gotta say you're

1137
01:23:33.119 --> 01:23:38.319
not using your imagination. And I
think Sam did here, but he used

1138
01:23:38.319 --> 01:23:44.920
his imagination based on a true story. So American values again, American dash

1139
01:23:45.000 --> 01:23:47.720
values dot net. That's the website. But Sam, go ahead and give

1140
01:23:47.800 --> 01:23:51.600
us a close on this. Sam
Idolette has been my guest now for well,

1141
01:23:51.720 --> 01:23:57.199
let's see about an hour and twenty
something minutes. So again, my

1142
01:23:57.239 --> 01:24:00.399
apologies for taking you longer, but
I think it was worth it, and

1143
01:24:00.439 --> 01:24:04.600
I thank you for indulging me.
Sam go ahead, No, thank you,

1144
01:24:04.680 --> 01:24:10.159
Chuck for having me on. This
is a really cool conversation. I

1145
01:24:10.199 --> 01:24:16.000
appreciate that I'm at a fellow casino
fan. I love that movie and Gladiator.

1146
01:24:16.039 --> 01:24:20.079
I love that movie as well.
So yeah, I'd love to come

1147
01:24:20.119 --> 01:24:26.439
back on and talk more. I
just honestly, it's just I enjoy talking

1148
01:24:26.439 --> 01:24:32.319
to you. And let's let me
just give out my email Dancing with my

1149
01:24:32.399 --> 01:24:39.600
Fate dot Com. There's an email
address there, so please do reach out

1150
01:24:39.640 --> 01:24:45.279
to me if you have any any
thoughts. I'd really appreciate those. Not

1151
01:24:45.319 --> 01:24:49.840
too many people actually reach out,
you know. I know people are reading

1152
01:24:49.880 --> 01:24:54.760
the book because I can see the
numbers, but I really would like to

1153
01:24:54.800 --> 01:24:59.279
hear from people, even if you
even if you hated it, I want

1154
01:24:59.319 --> 01:25:02.760
to know, you know, I
would appreciate hearing about that, you know,

1155
01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:09.039
or anything, So let me know
all right back. I'm not like

1156
01:25:09.279 --> 01:25:13.960
bombarded with emails at this point,
so I promise all right back, and

1157
01:25:14.199 --> 01:25:17.520
uh yeah, so all right.
So, if you go to Dancing with

1158
01:25:17.720 --> 01:25:24.079
My Fate dot Com all one word, Dancing with My Fate dot com.

1159
01:25:24.119 --> 01:25:28.239
If you go there and you're on
a desktop on the right hand side,

1160
01:25:28.239 --> 01:25:32.479
there's a contact button you hit that
there's an email address contact Sam. He

1161
01:25:32.680 --> 01:25:38.560
likes feedback on his books. Uh, definitely is interested to see what you

1162
01:25:38.680 --> 01:25:43.159
thought, how you experienced it.
He was even really, uh, you

1163
01:25:43.199 --> 01:25:46.159
know, gracious and let me see
the beginning of this book before it was

1164
01:25:46.199 --> 01:25:50.520
published, before it was finalized,
and I appreciated that as well. I'm

1165
01:25:50.520 --> 01:25:54.359
not saying he's going to do that
for all of you guys, but either

1166
01:25:54.439 --> 01:25:57.520
way, if you read the book, I'm very sure either of the books

1167
01:25:58.319 --> 01:26:02.239
you'd like to hear back about it, especially American Values. I think you

1168
01:26:02.239 --> 01:26:05.920
want to hear more about it,
but you still take an emails for Dancing

1169
01:26:05.960 --> 01:26:13.920
with My Fate, So American dash
Values dot net or dancing with my Fate

1170
01:26:14.319 --> 01:26:16.800
dot com. Those are two websites
you want to contact them. It's the

1171
01:26:16.920 --> 01:26:20.760
Dancing with My Fate. And I'm
gonna give you guys links directly in the

1172
01:26:20.800 --> 01:26:25.520
show notes and also try and get
myself the Amazon links so you guys can

1173
01:26:25.560 --> 01:26:29.319
go there. If you really want
the E book, I guess go get

1174
01:26:29.319 --> 01:26:34.359
it, but I definitely always suggest
get the paperback, the hard copy edition,

1175
01:26:34.800 --> 01:26:39.399
not hardcover, but hard copy edition. Get a book in your hands.

1176
01:26:39.840 --> 01:26:42.960
I don't think Sam's in danger are
being deleted or part of the digital

1177
01:26:42.960 --> 01:26:46.000
book burning, but you never know. And I'll tell you I always value

1178
01:26:46.039 --> 01:26:49.079
a book I can actually hold,
even if it's you know, oh,

1179
01:26:49.119 --> 01:26:51.520
you can enlarge the other thing and
blah blah blah. I don't care.

1180
01:26:53.000 --> 01:26:58.319
I like the old school way of
reading a book. I know, Grandpa,

1181
01:26:58.359 --> 01:27:01.000
get off my lawn. But still
it's good to have. And I

1182
01:27:01.079 --> 01:27:04.880
really appreciate you taking the time,
Sam, and I appreciate this, this

1183
01:27:05.279 --> 01:27:09.319
piece of work. And we may
have an announcement, you and I in

1184
01:27:09.359 --> 01:27:13.000
the near future. We'll see how
things work out. Not gonna give you

1185
01:27:13.000 --> 01:27:16.880
any more of a teaser than that
about some other project. But this book

1186
01:27:16.920 --> 01:27:19.840
here, I want people to go
get I want you guys to read it.

1187
01:27:20.319 --> 01:27:25.239
And again, Sam, idolette,
And if you don't know how to

1188
01:27:25.279 --> 01:27:28.680
spell that, well, let's take
a look over at the website so then

1189
01:27:28.720 --> 01:27:32.600
I don't screw it up. And
let's let's be clear about the way this

1190
01:27:32.640 --> 01:27:36.720
works. Okay, And it's Sam. You know, Sam, that's pretty

1191
01:27:36.720 --> 01:27:40.159
simple. I mean you don't how
to spell that, I mean, welcome

1192
01:27:40.199 --> 01:27:43.159
to the world. And I'm very
glad somebody turned on the internet for you.

1193
01:27:43.239 --> 01:27:47.119
But Idolette A Y. D.
L. E. T T E.

1194
01:27:47.880 --> 01:27:53.640
So yeah, Idolette, Sam Idolette
is the author. He's uh,

1195
01:27:53.680 --> 01:27:59.680
you know again, a nice guy, a smart guy, a thoughtful person

1196
01:28:00.720 --> 01:28:04.359
in an interesting author. So I
definitely advise that you go get the book,

1197
01:28:04.520 --> 01:28:09.720
read it, and hopefully it will
provoke thought in you as it did

1198
01:28:10.039 --> 01:28:14.279
in me. So the o'chelly effect
is done no matter who you are,

1199
01:28:14.359 --> 01:28:17.239
where you are, when you are. Want you to recall this, I

1200
01:28:17.279 --> 01:28:21.560
am merely o'celly. All of you
are indeed the effect. Good Night,