Best. Welcome to the podcast. Folks, this is Paul Abernathy. Welcome
to Let's Ask Paul, the podcast where you get to ask me, Paul
Abernathy, any question you want on the National Electric Code. I'll give my
best to try to answer it for you. All you got to do if
you want to submit your question is go over to our portal at Paul Abernathy
dot com p A U L A B E r n A t h y
dot com and you can submit your question to me and I will either answer
it on a podcast much like today, or I will answer in an email,
but I will try my best to get you an answer. Now,
I got literally hundreds and hundreds of these things and I'm trying to catch up
on them. But the one that we have today was actually forwarded to me
from Darlene, who kind of filters out my podcast topics, and she saw
this one and said, this is a multi part one that you might be
you know, might find interesting to do on a podcast. So I will
look through it and I bumped it to the top of the list. So
I'm going to do it and try to answer the questions. Now, before
I do that, I do want to mention. An announcement to folks out
there who are studying for the National Electrical Code or simply wanting to learn the
code much better. We have introduced two more affordable courses over on fasttrackssystem dot
com. And I'll remind you that when we say tracks, folks, it's
tr X, not t R A c K, it's tracks t R a
X. So fast tracks System dot Com is the website, okay, and
if you go there, you'll see that we introduced a basic course and an
enhanced course, much more cost effective and you get a whole lot. Even
our new database is available now. That's huge, huge, because it has
even some embedded videos, some flash cards, and it's just an interesting new
product that I think people are going to like. And it's again more cost
effective. At price actually went down from our Black and our Plus courses.
Now those courses are still available, they're more interactive with me. I do
the grading, whereas the Basic and the Enhanced you do your own grading and
you have an answer sheet, but you still get all the same course materials.
So again it's just kind of taking me out of the equation, but
there's a way you can get me in the equation is that the enhanced version
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it, go to fasttracks Tube dot com, f A S T t r
a x t ube dot com and there is actually a free video in there.
It looks like the Little Yellow Demon. Click on the Little Yellow Demon
and you'll be able to see a sample of the player and kind of get
an idea. Let you play with a little bit. But it's an awesome
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So you get that with the enhanced program. So check them out. New
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All right? So let's look at today's question that we're submitted. It's a
multi part question. I'll do my best to answer these questions for you and
the best I can in a mobile like a not a mobile a podcast format,
okay, because I can't you know, you can't see no visuals here,
So all right, let's do it. First, it says, Hi,
I'm working with the twenty twenty three code and I have a few questions
related to the nameplate data on an air conditioning unit. Okay, first thing,
it says, number one, I know the small conductor rules of two
forty dot four D don't apply per two forty dot four G. But if
you stop and just read two forty dot four G and the sentence doesn't really
make sense and doesn't really give any direction, shouldn't it say something to the
effect that the small conductor rules of two forty dot feed don't apply D don't
apply in this sections of table two forty dot four G. Okay, let
me answer this one first. It doesn't need to say that, because if
you understand code structure, it's telling you and it's it's saying it's permitting you
to use two forty dot four G, which ultimately is going to reference the
table which is right underneath it, and it says the overcurrent protection for the
specific conductors shall be permitted to be protected in reference to table too forty dot
four G. So you don't have to do it. I mean, I
can follow the small conductor rules at all. Times if I want, and
you are going to do that when you're doing you know, general branch circuits,
small appliance branch circuits, laundry anywhere else. Those are small conductor rules
because again we don't know they could go to receptacles, we don't know what
they're going to plug into them, and so we're protecting those conductors at their
opacity, and we have all these special rules. Okay. In fact,
even in opacity tables three, ten, sixteen, it has little asterisk for
sixteen gage, eighteen gauge, fourten engage, twelve gauge, and ten gauge
that sends you to the bottom to a note which is going to send you
to the small conductor protection rules. Okay, so that is a general rule.
So everything you see pushing you to g for example, is permitted.
Okay, it's a shabby permission. So it's permissive for you to do it.
You don't have to do it, but you're permitted to do it.
Right, And so in this case, when we're talking about HVAC and you
look at two forty dot four G and it referenced you to the table,
you'll notice that the very first one on the table is air conditioning and refrigeration
equipment circuit conductors, and that is an article four forty and it is specific
to part three, Part four, and part six, which, by the
way, happen to do with the short circuit, groundfall protection, the conductor
sizing, and overload. All of those things are covered within those parts.
And so there is going to be a situation where you're going to have a
conductor of a certain opacity, but it's going to allow it to go higher
than that for a short period of time, okay, like you do time
delayed fuses or hacker rated breakers for a short period of time to allow that
in rush current on a startup to get to running speed and get to running
and then it will drop back down and then the values the running load current
will be within the rating of that conductor's typical opacity. Right, So we're
giving the allowance for it to briefly go above its rating until it gets to
it's normal running current and then it comes back down. Okay. So this
is very common also for motors, because you see motors is in this list
as well, right C. Four thirty parts two, three, four,
five, six, and what is that seven? So it's and there's other
ones in here as well. So these have elements where they're going to allow
you to ignore the small conductor rule protection rule and then use what's in these
specific articles. And that's what's unique about it. So and it doesn't really
say to do that. You just have to know that this is permissive,
and then when you go to those specific articles, then you're going to read
where it gives you direction on the conductors and the protection of those conductors and
whatnot. Okay, Now, I would be remiss if I did not even
say this. For people that want things to be clear in the code,
you can always submit a public input and have your input involved in it if
you think it should say something better. I mean, I know how to
read code, so I see what This doesn't need any additional clarification to me
because I know that the small conductor rules can apply everywhere. But this is
permitting me to do something differently per these specific articles that are in this table.
That's how that's how it reads. Okay. Now, one of the
things for years people have said, you know, well, why does the
code be a little more descriptive, And because it's not an installation manual and
it's only to be used by those that are trained. You know, the
submitter is now being trained to understand how this flows. Although when I read
it, they most certainly understood that. They just wanted a little more clarity.
So by no means am I saying the submitter doesn't understand it. They
just want more clarity, And I get it. Everybody does, so that's
kind of the reason it doesn't. But remember you can always submit, okay,
public inputs when the window of submission is open, you can always submit
it and justify it and substantiate it, and there is a probability that the
code panel will listen. Okay, So just kind of kudos out there if
you want to submit it. For all those that did submit it for the
twenty twenty six cycle, that first draft is already in the process. We're
going to be balloting soon, so your next shot at it is going to
be the public comment stage. But that's part of you being involved in the
process. Okay, So awfully that makes sense. Okay, let's go into
your next question. Number two says, why do we have a small conductor
rule in two forty forty at all? Why not use the tables and rules
in three ten for all conductors. Well, because we have certain conditions where
As I stated, you might have a name plate let's say on an HVAC
piece of equipment, an outsair conditioning unit outside, for example, and it
says minimum circuit apacity, maximum overcurrent protection. And this is all because the
manufacturers have done all of their own testing. They've utilized the allowances in part
three, Part four, and part six of article four forty in order to
take into account things like short circuit, groundfall protection, overload, and circuit
sizing. They've already done this for you. And this is kind of like
a unique condition that the manufacturers are experts on this. This is they know
their equipment and they're just designing it around the allowances in four forty. Okay.
So the one thing to remember, though is we have a lot of
other You know, if you look at that table in two forty dot four
G, there's not a lot of things there, right, There's one,
two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine,
ten things. So there is a much more to applications where you would
run brand circuits and stuff where these small conductor rules must apply. Thiss just
ten unique areas here where you have something that could change that or modify it
so it's not like it's rampant. So mostly on anything that you would do
day and day out, like the small appliance brand circuits to your kitchen,
or your laundry brand circuit, or the bedroom brand circuits or living room brand
circuits, your lighting circuits, and you're dwelling, you're going to follow the
small conductor rules. You're going to protect the fourteen gauge at fifteen amps,
you're going to protect the twelve gage at twenty amps, you will protect the
ten gauge at thirty amps. That's the small conductor rules unless something is permitted
to allow you to deviate from that, and that's why you have this table.
Now, this is all based on again manufacturers testing in certain specific rules
within those articles and specific parts and subdivisions of those parts that actually give you
guidance. And it's a minimum safety standard. So this has all been vetted
out, so it's giving you that permission to do so. So I don't
want to give you the impression that we don't have other rules that we have
to provide protection for these small conductors other than these absolutely brand circuits to your
bathroom, living room, bedroom, All of that have to follow the small
conductor rules if they're within that scope of sizes. Okay, sixteen gauge,
eighteen, gauge twelve gage, ten gage, fourteen gage, all that small
conductor rules must apply. In fact, the opacity table of three ten sixteen
even has the asterisk that send you to the bottom notes, which are not
informational notes, folks. Those are notes, so they're very much applicable.
So it reminds you about the small conductor rules. Okay, but again we're
talking about those that can modify it. Okay, hope that makes sense.
The next question is number three. It says on an air conditioning name plate
data it says maximum FUSEE forty ampiers. Are we allowed to substitute breakers for
a breaker for fuse or do we have to use fus? It doesn't specific
specify what type of FUSEE. Okay, so here's what we have to think
about a little bit. So if you have a name plate that says minimum
circuit opacity, so it has to be at conductors of a minimum of this
opacity, and then you have a maximum over current protection. If that's all
it's said, then I could use fuse or circuit breaker. So you're saying,
Okay, what type of fuse do I use? Well, you got
to think about this for a second. If it says fuse only, then
you could only use a fuse. But you want to make sure that you're
using a time delayed fuse. Why Because the whole concept here is you're going
to be allowed in for forty in part three, Part four, and Part
six, there's going to be conditions where it's going to allow you to have
a current that is going to be higher than the rating of the conductor for
a brief amount of time, and you're only going to have short circuit of
ground fault protection, although there are allowances up in four forty, specifically in
part six that's going to allow you to use that same circuit breaker or fuse
for not only short circuit ground fault protection, but also overload protection. Okay
in one device. And so if it says maximum FUSEE, then it has
to be a fuse. Now it's not going to say maximum time delay fuse,
although it could, but you got to think about it. Why do
we want a time delay? Because we want to allow the current to come
in spike up on the start of this unit and then it's going to come
back down to its running current, okay, and so we need that time
frame in there so that doesn't just instantly blow the fuse. Same with a
circuit breaker the way the curving is, and you have a hacker rated breaker
that's going to allow for a certain amount of end rush and then it's going
to come back down to its normal running current and everything is fine. So
we don't have these nuisance trips and you know, things like that and customers
getting totally ticked off because every time the air conditioning starts to fuse blows or
the breaker trips. So all of this is done by the manufacturer and they
already do the testing. But to answer your question, if it's said fuses
and that's what it said, it didn't say maximum over current protection, but
it actually says maximum fuse size, then you can only use fuses only because
that's what it states. So some of those will say maximum overcurrent protection and
in parentheses it'll have fuze or circuit breaker, Okay, then you can use
either or whenever in doubt. Folks, don't be afraid to reach out to
the manufacturer if you're ever in doubt. They have customer support lines. They're
usually many cases twenty four to seven. They have online resources, They have
their own installation guides that you can download and probably give in sight on certain
things. But when it comes to fuses, it's basically you have to remember
the concept here is that you have to have a delay right now. Can
you put instant and if you want, you can do whatever you want.
Now, whether or not it holds or not is a whole different story.
That's kind of an installation thing. They're not going to tell you that.
Okay, each manufacturer may have something different that they want, but at the
end of the day, fuses or fuses, now me, I'm going to
use time delay. Why because if it is a thirty am fuse and it's
a time delay, then it means that it's not going to blow immediately on
the inter rush of current. It's going to go up and it's going to
sustain that, and then it's once it gets back down and that unit gets
to running, then everything's going to be fine. Okay, So that's kind
of the scenario why you want to have time delay, But could you put
regular fuses in there? Absolutely if you want, Whether they hold or not,
it's two different stories. Two different stories, okay. And then of
course breakers typically hacker breakers, and that's already going to have their curve figured
out so that you're not going to have a problem with that in rush.
And then it comes back down to the running current. Okay, So just
remember that the manufacturers in these name plates, and I think I have a
video out there on this over on my YouTube channel, but it might only
be on the fast tracks tube. Now, since we're moving much a bunch
of stuff where I explain this with images and graphics and the name plate and
all this kind of stuff, I can't tell you exactly in my mind where
it is now because I have so much freaking content out there somewhere all over
the place that I don't even know where it is. So go on and
go over to my YouTube channel, which is always master the NEC. Go
over there and do a search for HVAC and see what you come up with.
You might be surprised. It's probably over there if I haven't moved it
yet. So hopefully that answers all of your questions, at least in a
podcast. If it doesn't, you know what you folks can do. You
can always follow up to a podcast by just simply going to Paul Abernathy dot
com. Fill out the form and put in there that you're doing a follow
up to a previous podcast. Give me a bit of a synopsis of what
the podcast was about and what you're talking about, and then you can ask
your question follow up question. You're not limited to what you put there,
so feel free to type away and be as detailed as possible. Always make
sure you tell me the code cycle you're working on, because it does change
from cycle to cycle in some cases. And I will do my best to
do a follow up and answer any questions. Again, I can't read mind,
so I'm doing my best to try to give as much as i can.
All Right, folks, that's it on today's episode. It's going to
be a pretty quick one. Again. Thanks for joining me. If you're
wanting to learn more about the NEEC. We have two great new courses available
over on fastracksystem dot com. Also, we have a bunch of neat swag.
If you haven't seen it you're a code nerd like me, we have
a whole new line called Code Nerd and it is so cool. I've got
a phone case for my phone that has a code Nerd on it. Of
course, I've seen my hat with the code nerd. It's pretty cool right.
So anyway, until next time, folks, stay safe, God blessed,
and we'll catch you on another episode of Let's Ask Paul Down the Road. Peace,