1 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,480 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour Emily Dashinski, culture editor 2 00:00:22,519 --> 00:00:25,280 here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show at radio 3 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,800 at the Federalist dot com, follow us on ex at fdr LST, make 4 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,159 sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts, and of course to the premium 5 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,759 version of our website as well. Today we are joined live and in person 6 00:00:35,799 --> 00:00:40,520 here at Federalist HQ by two wonderful author authors who have a new book out 7 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,960 called Next Gen Marxism, What It Is and How to Combat It. That 8 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,560 will be Mike Gonzalez and Catherine Cornell Gorko. Welcome to both of you. 9 00:00:48,759 --> 00:00:52,320 Thank you so glad to be here. To be here. One of the 10 00:00:52,359 --> 00:00:56,200 benefits of doing this in person is that I got to see who would say 11 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,600 thank you first. This is pretty fun. Katherine was waiting to see if 12 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,840 Mike would do it. Mike was waiting to wait, ladies first, right, 13 00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:06,400 No, it's great, and I was just saying that we are going 14 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,359 to keep a copy of this book here for our summer interns, because you 15 00:01:10,359 --> 00:01:12,599 know, it's probably relevant to their lives. But one thing I would just 16 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:17,079 want to toss out to both of you is why you felt it was important 17 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,239 to write this book right now in twenty twenty four. I don't know who 18 00:01:19,239 --> 00:01:23,159 wants to take it first, but Catherine. Okay, So first, the 19 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,760 idea for the book really came about in I would say twenty twenty one, 20 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:32,640 didn't or twenty twenty one tour together at Heritage. Yeah, so I joined. 21 00:01:32,719 --> 00:01:36,519 I was in the Trump administration at DHS, and I left and went 22 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,879 over to the Heritage Foundation, where I had always wanted to work. So 23 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,400 it was a real dream come true for me. What a time to be 24 00:01:42,439 --> 00:01:47,680 at Heritage too. Oh, it was incredible. But I got there. 25 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:52,719 I started work just a few weeks before the COVID shutdown, and if you 26 00:01:52,799 --> 00:01:56,959 remember, that was really an extraordinary time because that was the beginning of the 27 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,159 parent movement, right and that was when people's started to really wake up to 28 00:02:01,239 --> 00:02:07,640 what their kids were being taught. And so I got pulled into that very 29 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:15,680 very quickly. I started working with Moms for Liberty and Moms for America both 30 00:02:15,759 --> 00:02:21,759 actually, and I was traveling all over the country working with these nascent parent 31 00:02:21,879 --> 00:02:27,159 groups who were trying to regain control over their children's education. And then, 32 00:02:27,199 --> 00:02:32,719 of course, you know, Mike has been an incredible outspoken expert on black 33 00:02:32,759 --> 00:02:38,680 lives matter and identity politics, and so, you know, we were talking 34 00:02:38,759 --> 00:02:43,719 about just this whole world of cultural crisis that was going on in the United 35 00:02:43,719 --> 00:02:51,879 States, and we decided that the right was not doing enough to really dissect 36 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:57,159 it and understand it and understand how we got so far, but also coming 37 00:02:57,199 --> 00:03:00,080 up with a strategy to combat it. You know, we felt that that 38 00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:05,080 was almost the most important thing, and in a lot of ways trying to 39 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,280 understand how we got here, we thought that's a key piece to developing a 40 00:03:09,319 --> 00:03:14,400 strategy to comb at it. And you'll see that in the book that those 41 00:03:14,439 --> 00:03:15,879 two things really go hand in hand. So I would say that would be 42 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,759 my response, Mike, do you have a different idea? It's very very 43 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,919 similar, with somewhat different taken. But first, let me say what a 44 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,639 pleasure it is to be on with you. Emily. We've emailed before every 45 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,719 time you're on the radio, and you're so brilliant, and I always send 46 00:03:30,199 --> 00:03:36,039 an email to our friends saying Emily was back on again, making complete sense. 47 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,879 So we still be interviewing you. Look, something else was happening in 48 00:03:39,919 --> 00:03:46,840 twenty twenty other than COVID, and that was the BLM riots that shocked our 49 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:52,719 society, shocked our system. We had over six hundred riots that year. 50 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:59,120 We had about twelve thousand demonstrations. So when the press is always covering for 51 00:03:59,199 --> 00:04:02,400 BLM would say, well, most of the process were peaceful, they're actually 52 00:04:02,439 --> 00:04:08,400 not lying. But a small percentage of twelve thousand, it's a lot. 53 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,960 So we have six hundred riots, as coded by by by the crisis Monitor 54 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:23,560 at Princeton. And what happened was that the gatekeepers of our cultural institutions, 55 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:30,759 who were already not had already not bought into cultural Marxism, but were now 56 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:36,639 already influenced by cultural Marxism, surrendered to They were so intimidated by the riots 57 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:43,279 that they surrendered and accepted the notion that America is systemically racist, that we 58 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:48,920 lived, that we live in systems of oppression, that the unifying cultural matrix 59 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:56,720 of American society is white supremacy, and they implemented a raft of cultural changes 60 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,720 that were very rapid. I remember, I had to be honest, I 61 00:05:00,959 --> 00:05:04,519 have memory hold that year because I so suffered the face masks and all that, 62 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:09,720 But I have very vivid memories in August of when Major League came back 63 00:05:09,759 --> 00:05:12,439 finally, the opening day was in August. I was watching with my son 64 00:05:13,079 --> 00:05:17,199 in something that is so pure, such as a national pastime, was suddenly 65 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:23,519 suffused with politics, and everything was about race and something. You know, 66 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:30,720 Baseball teams are fully integrated. They had the demographically people Americans in the Caribbeans 67 00:05:30,879 --> 00:05:33,560 from all walks of life, bringing together for the good of the team, 68 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:42,160 bringing their talent and to the four to win together as a team. And 69 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,800 all of a sudden, politics and this whole poison that we that we had 70 00:05:46,879 --> 00:05:51,759 inflicted upon us in twenty twenty was being plastered all over Opening Day and that 71 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:57,519 really upset me. And it was not just that, it was the schools, 72 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,480 the universities, the libraries, the museums, everything that have been taken 73 00:06:00,519 --> 00:06:04,920 over. So I think we wrote this book as a clarion call to our 74 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:12,360 fellow Americans that what we're seeing is an attempt at cultural genocide, an attempt 75 00:06:12,399 --> 00:06:18,920 at changing completely our culture. They new President Biden has just appointed a new 76 00:06:18,959 --> 00:06:24,000 head of DEI for the State Department. This is a diplomat who's supposed to 77 00:06:24,399 --> 00:06:28,839 protect American interests abroad, and yet she's saying she wants complete transformation of our 78 00:06:28,879 --> 00:06:34,399 system because we live in heteronormativity blah blah blah blah blah. And so we 79 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,160 need to face up to the fact that if you like America, if you 80 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,439 like its culture, and America is not perfect. American culture is not perfect, 81 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,160 American history is not perfect. It's full of tragedy as well as victories. 82 00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:50,519 But if you think this is a good country with a good society, 83 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:55,600 with a good culture, and it is, and I think so, then 84 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,240 you must defend it. And what we're doing with our book is shining light 85 00:07:00,319 --> 00:07:03,959 to what's being done in how we must react. And Marxism is obviously in 86 00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:06,639 the title. And one thing that shines through in the book is that both 87 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:12,800 of you are history lever students of history, and you trace some of the 88 00:07:12,839 --> 00:07:17,240 fascinating history through academia here and other places. And this has become I mean, 89 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,480 there are a lot of people who studied this on the right for years, 90 00:07:19,639 --> 00:07:23,680 and you know, it's come a little bit more into the mainstream sort 91 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,360 of studying where this came from. Even people like Andrew Sullivan are trying to, 92 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,120 you know, put the pieces together at this point. But just that 93 00:07:30,439 --> 00:07:36,079 phrase surrendered is so interesting to me because that means, or maybe it implies 94 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:42,000 that there was hesitation or disagreement initially. Can you talk to us a little 95 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,399 bit. I don't know who wants to take this question first, on the 96 00:07:44,439 --> 00:07:46,040 part of the gatekeepers, as you mentioned, Mike, can you talk to 97 00:07:46,079 --> 00:07:50,120 us a little bit about who sort of stormed the barricades, who stormed the 98 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:56,079 gates that the gatekeepers were holding, and where their ideas came from historically when 99 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,560 they started. I mean, Katie can tell you about this article we found 100 00:08:00,839 --> 00:08:05,040 from the New York Times. But it does begin in the eighties. In 101 00:08:05,079 --> 00:08:11,399 what it is is they children the sixties, radicals and sometimes terrorists of the 102 00:08:11,439 --> 00:08:18,600 sixties begin to take over, begin to emerge, sometimes from hiding on the 103 00:08:18,639 --> 00:08:22,199 ground because over terrorists like in the weather on the ground, and begin to 104 00:08:22,199 --> 00:08:28,079 take over the academy and begin to take over, especially the humanities. So 105 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:33,759 that really is where it begins. They take a hold of the law school 106 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:39,080 faculties with critical race theory in nineteen eighty nine of the humanities faculties, and 107 00:08:39,519 --> 00:08:43,240 they spread from their The critical race theory was kept within the confines of university 108 00:08:43,279 --> 00:08:48,279 walls for the first In fact, people wrote about this in the late nineties, 109 00:08:48,759 --> 00:08:52,279 but then it began to emerge, and it really is in twenty twenty 110 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:58,399 when we had the outbreak of two viruses. One is the COVID from Muhan 111 00:08:58,879 --> 00:09:01,039 and the other one was critical race theory from the university. Do you want 112 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,480 to you like to talk about the subject? Do you want to talk about 113 00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:07,360 that? Yeah? You know, as you're saying this, it just strikes 114 00:09:07,399 --> 00:09:13,200 me again how in so many respects this was a revolution of elites. You 115 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,279 know, when I think about, for example, I mean, it's always 116 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,200 hard to talk about the beginning of this because you can always go back another 117 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,320 generation, another generation the printing press. Yes, exactly, you can go 118 00:09:24,399 --> 00:09:30,039 back to Brousseau. But I think that absolutely, as Mike has said, 119 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:35,639 the sixties were a key turning point because that's when the radicals here really made 120 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:41,960 Marxism uniquely American. They they kind of gave birth to a uniquely American Marxism 121 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,320 you left, Yeah, which is the roots of what you know, we're 122 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,240 seeing the fruit of that today. But when you think about you know, 123 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:54,000 like Tom Haydenen and leaders of the Students for Democratic Society, these were you 124 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,440 know, elite kids saying we can't you know, we don't like our country. 125 00:09:58,519 --> 00:10:01,679 We've to overthrow it. Right. It starts with that, and then 126 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:07,279 of course they go into the ghettos. They go into the inner cities in 127 00:10:07,399 --> 00:10:13,960 Newark and elsewhere, they actively foment revolution, which, let's be clear, 128 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:18,799 the highest price for that was paid by the people who live there. Right, 129 00:10:18,039 --> 00:10:24,039 destroyed property values, destroyed lives for years. But that wasn't enough, 130 00:10:24,159 --> 00:10:28,399 Right, they wanted to go on. They ultimately many of them, a 131 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:35,879 bunch of them, became terrorists. Right. 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So I went into the restaurant 147 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,679 next door with a friend and this is I swear this is true. We 148 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,600 sat down, had a beer and I looked over to my left and sure 149 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,360 enough it was Bill Air's and never deemed doorn at a table. This was 150 00:11:56,399 --> 00:12:00,039 only a couple years ago, and I thought it was so hilarious that I 151 00:12:00,279 --> 00:12:03,320 one of the restaurants next door, because it's not like a Ghasolic, and 152 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:05,600 wow, and there they were, the terrorists were stowing a quiet meal together, 153 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:11,120 you know. On that note kidding, I just have to say, 154 00:12:11,159 --> 00:12:15,080 on that note, that one of the you know, one of the really 155 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,679 fun things about doing a book in partnership with somebody else is that not only 156 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,919 your own learning process, but you get the benefit of their learning process. 157 00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:28,559 And Mike's Mike Wroth chapter on Bill Air's okay, but he did a lot 158 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:33,639 of the deep digging on that and the it is so it was so eye 159 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:39,720 opening to me how profoundly evil that couple is. And yet they have received 160 00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:46,200 awards, they have been celebrated. There they are. He is a professor 161 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,720 emeritus. I think today he's an education reformer. He's an education reformer. 162 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,720 It is it is sunny. No people need to know just how evil these 163 00:12:54,759 --> 00:12:58,559 people are struggle political world. Well, I was gonna say, can you, 164 00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:01,000 I mean, just camp out on that point for a moment, because 165 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,679 I think a lot of people and one of the things reading this part of 166 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,080 the book, it's stunning how much of this history has been totally memory hold. 167 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,000 We act like it never happened. We even like sds in general. 168 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,360 I don't think a lot of people journalist should be you're a Journali's addiction to 169 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,399 it. But the New York Times, it's amazing people my age. If 170 00:13:18,399 --> 00:13:22,399 you told them what was happening on campuses in the nineteen sixties. Their jaws 171 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,960 would drop. I don't think they truly don't understand what was happening. And 172 00:13:26,519 --> 00:13:30,240 people then still have a hard time connecting, you know, maybe the statue 173 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,279 terrors down, tear down, tear I don't even know. It's not like 174 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,399 Attorney's General, but the people who were tearing down statues in twenty twenty connecting 175 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,559 them to a young Bill ayers, why are those why can you draw the 176 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,279 line from point A to point B? Yeah? So, I mean because 177 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:52,639 you had this huge radical student movement which was very directly influenced by people like 178 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:58,519 Fidel Castro and other you know, by the Chinese, by the Vietnamese, 179 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,279 the North Vietnamese by Man was your favorite author. Yeah, it was a 180 00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:07,120 communist from Martinique. There you go. Many avowed communists and enemies in the 181 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,080 United States really helped shape that student movement. But what happened by the late 182 00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:16,799 sixties, these radical students started to say, our revolution is not happening the 183 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,639 way we wanted it to, and so several things happened at once. You 184 00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:26,080 had one group that went super radical, that's the Weather Underground. They literally 185 00:14:26,159 --> 00:14:33,919 went undergrounds. Yes, and they started carrying out acts of terrorism. You 186 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,840 know this is here's another little known fact. I think the year nineteen seventy 187 00:14:37,879 --> 00:14:43,679 two there was just under two thousand bombings across the United States. Like people, 188 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,759 right, you don't know that. So you had the group that went 189 00:14:48,919 --> 00:14:54,399 full terrorism. You had a group that went into the universities and said, 190 00:14:54,559 --> 00:15:01,639 we weren't able to achieve the change we wanted through student de demonstrating and street 191 00:15:01,679 --> 00:15:05,799 revolution. Let's change it through the law. And so that gave birth to 192 00:15:05,039 --> 00:15:11,120 critical legal studies, which then gave rise to critical race theory. There's a 193 00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:15,320 direct line which we draw. And then there was a third group that said, 194 00:15:15,519 --> 00:15:18,759 well, what we really need to do is better organize, and so 195 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,360 there were you know, several outgrowths of that. Eric Mann, one of 196 00:15:24,399 --> 00:15:28,320 the SDS members, whether underground members, actually served two years in prison. 197 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:33,120 Yeah. For Sultan Mattery. Yeah, for I thought it was attempted murder 198 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,919 because of a shooting. I thought it was a Sultan battery. Well he's 199 00:15:35,919 --> 00:15:39,159 in the book. Yeah, So he there was a bullets shot through a 200 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,639 police station I think, but served two years in prison. He's now a 201 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,879 mainstream organizer. So in nineteen eighty nine, paid any attention to him, 202 00:15:48,919 --> 00:15:50,759 No, except for us, not at all. And I would say he 203 00:15:50,799 --> 00:15:58,879 really gave birth to Black Lives Matter because he trained, yeah, in identifying 204 00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:07,559 and training Patrice Cool. He recruits her into his Labor Community Strategy Center. 205 00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:10,679 He uses that word, by the way, this is his word which he 206 00:16:10,799 --> 00:16:14,480 uses in the twenty eleven book. In other words, two years before Patric's 207 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,519 clar becomes famous because found in Black Lives Matter, he says he's recruited is 208 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:23,159 brilliant organizer. He has recruited her eleven years earlier, because he recruited her 209 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:30,360 in the late nineties when she was seventeen into the Labor Community Strategy Center where 210 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:37,440 he teaches organizing, and his wife teaches them Maoism and Leninism and Marxism a 211 00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:42,840 knight, So they're getting at them both ways. But another one that is 212 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:48,679 key in this third stool that you described so well Katie, is Alynski. 213 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:55,360 And there was tension between Olynsky in the other two groups between because Olensky said, 214 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,600 you can go crazy and set off bombs, you're not going to achieve 215 00:16:59,639 --> 00:17:04,160 anything what you can organize. And and and he's a history Forred approach was 216 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:11,240 organizing outside the universities. He creates Caeesar Chavez. He's the one that begins 217 00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:18,160 to the first focuses on Mexican Americans in Los Angeles in southern California as a 218 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:23,160 group that he says had had revolutionary potential but needed to be organized. So 219 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:29,440 he's very key, and I believe there was a I'm working for memory here. 220 00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:32,279 I think it's in the book. There was a meeting between the lens 221 00:17:32,319 --> 00:17:38,519 Key and Tom Hayden in which that showed the tension between the two. But 222 00:17:38,599 --> 00:17:45,599 yeah, no, it's it's it has to go back to the sixties where 223 00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:49,000 several things happened. Katie mentioned the Cuban Revolution the impact that that. But 224 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:56,799 they say this, they look at Chickevarra and Fidel Castro to university educated, 225 00:17:56,799 --> 00:17:59,400 one a lawyer, the only one doctor, both rich, both white, 226 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:06,720 and they say there is potential here for the university elite to lead the people. 227 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:08,799 Of course, Castro is now Castro and Czechobar are not doing that, 228 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:14,200 and Hube they're killing the people. But they're very and that's one of the 229 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,359 reasons why some people walk away. Horowitz walks away because they're embrace of Castro, 230 00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:23,640 Irving Howe walks away because of their embrace of Castro. They're put off 231 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:29,279 by that, but these are principal leftists. But it's really then, Katie 232 00:18:29,319 --> 00:18:33,279 put it very well, the creation of critical legal studies in the seventies, 233 00:18:33,839 --> 00:18:38,599 which then metastasizes into critical race theory nineteen eighty nine. But it really is 234 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,640 when they take over again. Bill Ayres is a perfect example. That's why 235 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:48,640 Katie and I devoted a chapter to him, because he personifies metamorphosis. He 236 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:51,920 was a football he was a jock in high school. He goes to the 237 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,079 University of Michigan, where he radicalizes, becomes a member of SDS. In 238 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,720 nineteen sixty nine, he dumps SDS and establishes the Weather on the Ground, 239 00:19:00,759 --> 00:19:04,240 one of the founders, and then he emerges in nineteen eighty one. I 240 00:19:04,279 --> 00:19:14,960 believe when whose Cartis's attorney channel Griffin Bell when he I wish everyone I love 241 00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:18,599 that. You think I would know something like that, she actually just insulted 242 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:25,359 her. He gave them some kind of amnesty. So they emerge from on 243 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,319 the ground. And what does he do. He goes to Teachers College, 244 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:32,960 which is which is just so full of symbolism. Because who had set up 245 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,559 shop at Teachers College in the thirties, the Franford School. You know, 246 00:19:36,599 --> 00:19:38,559 I've had so many pictures of myself taking a teacher. I went to Columbia 247 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,359 to the Business School, a teacher's college because it's been defunct to so much 248 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,240 bad stuff in America. So Bill Ayers goes to Teachers College, gets a 249 00:19:48,279 --> 00:19:53,480 PhD in education, and becomes what you know. Tom Bracock calls him an 250 00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:59,759 education reformer. Soul Start says, that's like calling style and an agricultural reformer. 251 00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:06,359 And he actually got an award from the Mayor of Chicago for his contribution 252 00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:11,160 to education or youth. He was putting charge. He was putting charge of 253 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:17,079 deciding millions of thousand words by daily the son of the mayor. He protested 254 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:23,799 in sixty eight. It's just full of ironies. Yeah, hello, thank 255 00:20:23,839 --> 00:20:29,720 you for listening to The Federalist. 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No questions asked that zbiotics 272 00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:51,960 dot com slash r adio radio and use the code radio r a d io 273 00:21:52,079 --> 00:21:56,799 at checkout for fifteen percent off. Thank you z Biotics for sponsoring this episode 274 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:02,759 and our good times. So and I want to go back to Patrise's colors. 275 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,519 I don't know if you say coolers or colors, but colors. Okay. 276 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,559 So she's such an interesting figure and is in the book, and Eric 277 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:15,200 Mann is all over the book. But that question of next gen Marxism falls 278 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,839 so squarely on Patrise's colors, I think because what she does with BLM is 279 00:22:21,079 --> 00:22:25,039 you know, they said self proclaimed Marxists, they were against the Nuclear family 280 00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:29,880 on their website until they scrubbed that they This is something I wrote because of 281 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:36,200 something Mike wrot. But so this would have gone totally unnoticed if not for 282 00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:41,440 Mike your work and people just saying, what is going on with all of 283 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:47,240 the corporate money that is being hoovered up by BLM and she turns it into 284 00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:52,680 a full blown grift. She buys a mansion and you basically waste all this 285 00:22:52,759 --> 00:22:56,279 money. She is doing this like cronyism with the security who's like, what, 286 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:00,039 her brother, her boyfriend. It's crazy. But people on the left, 287 00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:03,599 my friends on the left, will look at that and say, tell 288 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,799 me how exactly that's Marxism is that why I always answer this question. First 289 00:23:07,799 --> 00:23:11,200 of all, I get into arguments with radio hosts and tvOS because I say 290 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,559 I don't care. I don't care about the grift. I know America's we 291 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:21,720 have a rich history of grifting. Uh, you know, corruption exists, 292 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:29,200 But this is pure Marxism. Breshnev, Gorbachev and drop off Stalin, they 293 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,160 all had dashas in the countryside. They all had wealthy houses. Castro died 294 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:40,079 a billionaire eating lobster, while Cuban starved. You know, uh Shosku in 295 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:45,079 Romania and his wife before they did Romanians shot them were wealthy. This is 296 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,599 this is she has been a complete Marxist when she buys a mention. This 297 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:56,559 is what Marxist leaders are supposed to do. But yes, you're the people 298 00:23:56,559 --> 00:24:00,480 on the left who argue with you on this do have a point. And 299 00:24:00,519 --> 00:24:03,480 I have argued with people on the left the same way, the real orthodox 300 00:24:03,519 --> 00:24:12,720 Marxist who don't recognize Graham she or George Lucas or Horkheimer or Marcus as Marxist. 301 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,200 First of all, Marcusa criticizes of a union, though not nearly as 302 00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:23,720 much as he criticized the Western capitalists and democracies. But the main reason is 303 00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:30,319 that they depart from economic determinism. They depart from the worker as the agent 304 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,759 of revolution. They abandoned the worker. I mentioned Evering howe or earlier he 305 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:40,440 in the sixties rights, we're all speaking of the new left. We're all 306 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:47,119 looking for a substitute proletariat. You know Howard Zinn talks about it very explicitly. 307 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,079 He writes, we have to we have to be disabused of the notion 308 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,839 that the American worker is going to lead the revolution. He is not. 309 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,599 Horkheimer says this in sixty nine to an interviewer. He says, we have 310 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:06,720 to stop saying that the capitalist system will produce victims, that the worker will 311 00:25:06,759 --> 00:25:11,000 realize he's bereft because of the capitalist system. No, the capitalism produces wealth. 312 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,720 What it produces also is inequality. And he says there is a dialectic 313 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:22,759 relationship, that the dialectical relationship between justice and equality. The sorry justice, 314 00:25:23,279 --> 00:25:29,240 equality and freedom, the more freedom, the less equality and justice the less 315 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,480 the more equality and and and justice, the less freedom. Uh. And 316 00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:37,000 if you look at it from the perspective of a Marxist, he's making perfect 317 00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:48,039 sense. So they abandoned that altogether an orthodox what the new Left would call 318 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:56,359 vulgar Marxists would would say. The old Marxist would say that what creates social 319 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,559 classes between men is their relationship to the means of production. In other words, 320 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,680 the owner of the factory is a bourgeois, a capitalist, and he 321 00:26:04,759 --> 00:26:08,559 and his enemy of society. And the guy who toils on the factory, 322 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:15,400 with the plant, with the laithe is a proletariat, a member of the 323 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,359 working class, and his purpose, his mission in life is to destroy, 324 00:26:18,599 --> 00:26:22,960 destroy the BOURGEOISI destroy his family, rapist wife killed him. A bloody revolution 325 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:30,720 that doesn't happen, that never happens. Marx was wrong that what the Western 326 00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:34,799 capital is discovered in the nineteen twenties and thirties is that Marx had gotten all 327 00:26:34,839 --> 00:26:38,240 of that wrong. And my own opinion on this is that I don't think 328 00:26:38,279 --> 00:26:44,160 Marx ever met a single worker. He was a He was a middle class 329 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,480 guy, constantly, you know, bothering his mother and father for money. 330 00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:53,839 Then he finds his sugar daddy in Frieda Angles and he's always in the London 331 00:26:53,920 --> 00:27:00,400 library doing research, writing capital and Satanic poetry, and Satanic poetry. He's 332 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,559 very influenced by Satan. You know our friend Pauker right, just very well 333 00:27:04,599 --> 00:27:10,000 about this. So I think that that is the evolution. That's one of 334 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:14,759 the evolutions. Can I interject? So I think it's it's it's so interesting, 335 00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:17,759 how you know, what we've seen through history is, as Mike has 336 00:27:17,799 --> 00:27:22,440 said, the worker does not revolt because the worker likes his work and he 337 00:27:22,599 --> 00:27:25,559 likes to have work. Yes, to be fair, he would like to 338 00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:30,359 have better working conditions. But one of the other points as well that Marx 339 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,319 did not foresee is that capitalism, by its nature, would create better working 340 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,759 conditions. Right. Those conditions improved over time and continue to improve. But 341 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:44,759 what was there was a key turning point in the nineteen fifties here in the 342 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:52,039 United States when American leftists fully said, okay, we're leaving the worker behind. 343 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,559 We now think the locus of revolution is going to be really young people's 344 00:27:56,559 --> 00:28:03,559 students and intellectuals, people of color. That's eighteen years later, right, 345 00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:07,359 that comes up more that starts to emerge in sixties, right, And and 346 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,119 what I find so interesting, You know, people are horrified by where Harvard 347 00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:21,359 is today. But let's not forget Harvard hosted Fidel Castro months after he brought 348 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,240 about the revolution in Cuba as then he was some kind of hero. So 349 00:28:25,559 --> 00:28:30,119 no wonder Harvard's students were embracing the concept of revolution. And by the way, 350 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,200 Emily, this explains why the working man is walking away from the left 351 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:40,200 today. Yes, and you cannot say anymore that if you call a worker 352 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,799 you're going to vote left his ticket. That just that's just did get part. 353 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,960 There's not a single did get part out there anymore, you know. 354 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,799 And the longer exisits I also to old for you on the same age as 355 00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:57,039 you, I don't know what you're talking about. He was, he was 356 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:03,640 the attorney general for Jimmy Carter. Well, so on that. On that 357 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,279 point, the next generation, as you say, like this is the title 358 00:29:08,279 --> 00:29:12,759 of the book, the next Generation of Marxism. In what ways is it 359 00:29:12,839 --> 00:29:18,720 distinct from you know, it reminds me of the shows of like Degrassy next 360 00:29:18,759 --> 00:29:22,759 Generation, like what is the what what makes this generation distinct? If, 361 00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:26,920 as you just talked about, Patrice Colors is essentially just following the same playbook 362 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:32,200 that was laid out for her by you know, previous quote unquote Marxist leaders 363 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:37,680 and yeah, corrupted by mansions. But you just talked about sort of that 364 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,200 trajectory, mid century trajectory, and as you read about in the book, 365 00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:42,759 and then it goes to sort of the people of color, then it goes 366 00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:45,160 into the law, and then you have you know, in the nineties, 367 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,720 people like Camille Paulia on TV. William F. Buckley had a TV show 368 00:29:49,799 --> 00:29:52,839 and Camille Poulia is writing, you know, shouting this from the rooftops. 369 00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:56,920 You know, she's studied under hell A Bloom, And there was some serious 370 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:03,839 consideration to what was happening to the academy never caught on, and everyone's shocked 371 00:30:03,839 --> 00:30:07,119 in twenty twenty. Are they shocked because the next generation of Marxism is just 372 00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:12,680 something they never saw coming. Yes, but I think there's it's important to 373 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:18,440 point out what happened. So, as I mentioned, you had a whole 374 00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:27,599 group of disoriented, disappointed social revolutionaries from the nineteen sixties, these student activists 375 00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:33,519 who said, our revolution's not working on the streets, let's use the law. 376 00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:38,279 And so they went into the law schools and they developed critical legal studies 377 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:45,559 and they absolutely had a Marxist worldview, which was this notion of opposition, 378 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:51,359 right, not oh, we can use the law to improve things. No, 379 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,519 we have to tear down the law. The law. Yeah, use 380 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,400 the law to tear down the existing system and create a whole new system. 381 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:06,000 But here's what happened that I think is so interesting. These lawyers, except 382 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:11,240 for maybe one or two, were all white men. Their students were people 383 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,799 of different ethnicities, different color, a lot of women. Kimberly Crenshaw. 384 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:21,160 Yeah, exactly. And you you about ten twenty years past, and the 385 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,880 faculty of the law schools are not changing, but you've had all these students 386 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,880 rise up. So that's where you get this group of different They were fundamentally 387 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:36,319 had been students of these lawyers, of these professors, and they say, 388 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,480 you know what, white men, we've had enough for you. Time for 389 00:31:38,519 --> 00:31:44,359 you to hand over exactly the reason, Yeah, those leave the field of 390 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,079 the civil rights. They said you have no you have no place here anymore. 391 00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:51,519 And they took over. And that was in nineteen eighty nine. That 392 00:31:51,599 --> 00:31:55,759 was, yeah, the lead the field civil rights to take your talents elsewhere, 393 00:31:55,799 --> 00:31:59,400 and that was the birth of critical race theory. But to come back 394 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,759 to the point, racism, yes, yeah, aaps one hundred percent. 395 00:32:01,839 --> 00:32:05,440 Yeah, we're going to look at the world through race now. So that 396 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,680 is, and and other things started to get brought in as well. You 397 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,880 know, you had the whole notion of intersectionality. Right, it's not just 398 00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:19,279 yeah, it's not just races, it's ethnicity, its gender. Then it 399 00:32:19,319 --> 00:32:23,039 becomes sexual orientation and all of this. But to come back to the point 400 00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:28,440 that we started with this year, this was nineteen eighty nine that this conference 401 00:32:28,519 --> 00:32:32,160 happened. It was such a pivotal year because, as we mentioned, Mike 402 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:37,319 had found this incredible article by a Felicity Barranger, who had been a former 403 00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:40,960 Moscow bureau chief for the New York Times, who knew communism, who knew 404 00:32:42,039 --> 00:32:46,160 I understood communism, and said, communism has I mean Marxism has now gone 405 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:51,799 mainstream in US colleges and universities. Yeah, while it is losing in Eastern 406 00:32:51,799 --> 00:32:58,160 Europe. Yes, and probably through this it will survive. But I my 407 00:32:58,359 --> 00:33:02,599 personal theory about this is, and I think Mike shares this view because the 408 00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:08,039 people who understood that, those who understood that Marxism is a threat, that 409 00:33:08,079 --> 00:33:13,319 Marxism is not a good thing. We were all looking at Central and Eastern 410 00:33:13,319 --> 00:33:16,279 Europe and we thought it was done. We thought, Okay, history is 411 00:33:16,319 --> 00:33:21,559 finished, right, and so people weren't paying attention to what was going on 412 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,240 here at home, and that's how I think it was able, you know, 413 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,559 in eighty nine. But I have my own theory on this, which 414 00:33:28,119 --> 00:33:30,839 it's not I didn't put in the book. Just so happens, by the 415 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,359 way, that Katie was in Eastern Europe in eighty nine, what country no 416 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,960 went I was watching? I did not go over until ninety and then I 417 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:44,319 spent the next eighteen years actually first researching in Eastern Europe and then living there 418 00:33:44,359 --> 00:33:47,640 for twelve years. United. So I'm in Hong Kong. I'm in Hong 419 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:55,200 Kong as a correspondent, and I covered the Tenem Square marches. I actually 420 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,160 cried. I remember myself crying on June fourth, nineteen eighty nine, when 421 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,839 the kids were massacred. I don't cry very often. I remember crying with 422 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,039 my girlfriend as we were watching this on TV. But we thought that Chinese 423 00:34:07,079 --> 00:34:10,840 communism was going to go the way of Soviet Communism in Eastern European communism. 424 00:34:12,039 --> 00:34:15,559 We're wrong. But you ask a very good question when you bring up Camio 425 00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:20,440 Pallia and Herold Bloom, Because there were people who were twigging onto this. 426 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,960 There were people Herold Bloom. Obviously, I think his closing with the American 427 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,920 mind. I think he may have been eighty eight. I don't want to 428 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,480 look it up right now, but I think it was publishing eighty eight. 429 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:37,480 Coustal Feminism is ninety four. Peter Thiel writes the first book about identity politics 430 00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:40,239 on Stanford in nineteen ninety four. He has a co author as well, 431 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:47,320 Norman pod Horitz, rights in the National you know in commentary in nineteen ninety 432 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:52,480 six, we're all Graham seenes now, you know. Don't worry. We've 433 00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:58,320 understood the culture. So I think intellectuals and key places are beginning to understand 434 00:34:58,599 --> 00:35:02,000 what is happening. But I think happened is not only were we looking at 435 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,719 Eastern Europe in the early nineties, but then nine to eleven happened. On 436 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:14,000 nine to eleven, all our minds, the best minds in conservatism were focused 437 00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:21,280 on what to do about the enemy without this lam of fascist enemy. I 438 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,679 myself was in Brussels with a Wall Street journal on nine to eleven, and 439 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:31,280 I devoted my attention completely to this through the contacts that I had made in 440 00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:36,760 West European capitals and these European capitals. I was traveling the continent extensively, 441 00:35:37,559 --> 00:35:40,280 and I think that happened to a lot of people. And that's why one 442 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,800 of the reasons, and it does sound like an excuse, but it is 443 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,159 an explanation, not an excuse why so many of us took our mind off 444 00:35:49,199 --> 00:35:52,880 the ball when it comes to the cultural takeover of the institutions. Does that 445 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:57,159 sound to somebody a few generation. Does this sound like an excuse or it 446 00:35:57,159 --> 00:36:01,000 doesn't sound like an excuse. It sounds like it sounds like everyone was busy 447 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:07,119 paying attention to other things and didn't realize especially actually, I think after nine 448 00:36:07,159 --> 00:36:12,599 to eleven, and people even younger than myself, how profoundly the foundation had 449 00:36:12,679 --> 00:36:15,880 kind of been eroded, so that these seeds were really when they were planted, 450 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:22,760 they bore fruit in the minds of young people because in academia they were 451 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,840 being taught things like Howard zen and Zenism, which was number one best selling 452 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,840 book. By the way, I think in history to this day it might 453 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:37,639 still be today. Wouldn't surprise me. All they want to do is keep 454 00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:43,079 you poor and stupid. The Watched Out on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. 455 00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:45,840 Every day Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy and how 456 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,119 it affects your wallet. Some of the media are trying to tell you it's 457 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,480 bad if your prices go down, causing a deflation spiral. If prices go 458 00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:58,480 down, are people really going to hold off on buying things? Doesn't everyone 459 00:36:58,519 --> 00:37:00,599 need groceries. Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street, it's 460 00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:05,119 affecting you financially. Be informed. Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast 461 00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:07,400 with Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. 462 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:16,119 You know. Here's my last kind of question for both of you from this 463 00:37:16,199 --> 00:37:22,760 is I remember interviewing Lee Edwards, obviously a long time historian of the conservative 464 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,480 movement. I'm sure both of you know doctor Edwards. He was in the 465 00:37:27,519 --> 00:37:30,920 summer of twenty twenty. He was on the show and my colleague Christopher Bedford, 466 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:36,119 and I asked him, is it worse now than nineteen sixty eight? 467 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,760 And Lee was in Chicago in nineteen sixty eight and he saw the riots himself, 468 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:45,440 and LI said yes. He said, because most people can't sit down 469 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,280 and just sort of talk things through anymore. At the end of the day. 470 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,199 In nineteen sixty eight, most Americans could, at the end of the 471 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,800 day go to their dinner table and talk these things through. Yes there were 472 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,760 the radicals, but at the end of the day, most people had some 473 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,639 sort of consensus. Paraphrasing what Li said, and that's really a question about 474 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:07,480 next generation Marxism. That's really what he's getting at. And so is there 475 00:38:07,559 --> 00:38:14,400 something actually worse about this next generation? And maybe we can leave people on 476 00:38:14,599 --> 00:38:20,480 a thoroughly pessimistic and I think it's more dangerous because they have made such inroads. 477 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,159 But I think the American people have woken up to a much greater degree 478 00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:28,599 than the American people were in nineteen sixty eight, although in naeteen sixty eight 479 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:34,400 most Americans were not hippies. Nixon won Wona resounding, not as much as 480 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,400 resounding victory in nineteen sixty eight as he won in seventy two. But let's 481 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:43,599 not forget that Nixon won. You know, MC government lost and he were 482 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:52,599 Humphrey lost. Because of this surrender, the overwhelming surrender of the leaders of 483 00:38:52,639 --> 00:38:59,639 our cultural institutions in twenty twenty and the crazy stuff that they have implemented since 484 00:38:59,679 --> 00:39:02,519 then. In the last four years, the American people have woken up and 485 00:39:02,559 --> 00:39:06,800 said no, no, no, no, no, no, we don't 486 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,559 want this. And I think we have the American people on our side, 487 00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:13,639 and I think I let Katie respond now, But I think what Katie and 488 00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:17,079 I are trying to do is trying to give the American people the help they 489 00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:21,719 need by e learning policymakers saying, hey, you got to help the American 490 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:27,159 people. You have to give them the policies that they need to fight this 491 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,960 back, and Katie turning to you. I just want to add one thing 492 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,639 to that, because Mike made me think of it. One thing that terrifies 493 00:39:32,679 --> 00:39:37,079 me about this next generation of Marxist is I don't think they even understand Marxism. 494 00:39:37,679 --> 00:39:39,800 And when you look back at the writings of people, I mean, 495 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:44,199 sure there are hangers on in the sixties, but there was a sort of 496 00:39:44,199 --> 00:39:49,360 serious intellectual effort happening, whereas today you have the bin Laden letter going viral 497 00:39:49,559 --> 00:39:52,119 on TikTok and people just being like, oh wow, I didn't know America 498 00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:58,679 did all of this. I'm going to join the bandwagon. To me, 499 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,400 that seems extra terrifying. I don't if you agree with that, but I'm 500 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:05,199 curious for your thoughts. Yeah, well, I just want to point out 501 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,719 though, going back to your quote from Lee Edwards, who we love and 502 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:13,480 admire, you know, the other really big difference between what was happening in 503 00:40:13,519 --> 00:40:15,679 the sixties and what's happening today is that in the sixties, you know, 504 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:21,599 these students were extremely isolated. They did not have support, not just from 505 00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:25,400 the American people, but from local government. And you know, it still 506 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:32,039 blows my mind that our Washington, d c. Government paid tax dollars to 507 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:39,679 paint Black Lives Matter on the street and you're seeing this quote in the Smithsonian, 508 00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:44,599 in the Museum of African American. Yeah, and Marael Baser's a fairly 509 00:40:44,639 --> 00:40:49,159 corporate democrat, hardly a sort of trained Marxist, right exactly. But I 510 00:40:49,159 --> 00:40:53,400 would agree with Mike that it's really there is one hundred percent something happening amongst 511 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:58,559 the American people. And it's not just you know, the the American people 512 00:40:58,559 --> 00:41:01,679 in the heartland. I think it's you know, African Americans, Hispanics in 513 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:06,800 the cities. I think the cities, the people have you know, subjected 514 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:14,239 to these failed democratic policies in cities are fed up with the crime, the 515 00:41:14,599 --> 00:41:20,079 mental illness issues, the fentanel issues, the drug issues, the economic issues. 516 00:41:20,119 --> 00:41:23,119 I mean, yes, I think there's just a lot of people upset. 517 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:29,880 You know. As for whether people really understand today what's going on, 518 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:35,280 I mean, I still think as much as I'm optimistic about the American people, 519 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:40,320 what concerns me is the universities. Because the universities, one percent are 520 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,320 are factories of indoctrination right now. And honestly, to be fair, too 521 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:51,920 many of our schools K through twelve have become that way as well. And 522 00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:57,360 I know some people see it, but if you pay close attention to the 523 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:02,719 way, even like English lessons and math lessons in K through twelve are starting 524 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:10,199 to carry this this you know what is fundamentally Marxist and anti American people should 525 00:42:10,199 --> 00:42:14,920 be really frightened. Let me just keep very warning here, by the way, 526 00:42:15,159 --> 00:42:16,519 because people listening will say, well, I believe in these things and 527 00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:21,440 I'm not a Marxist. There you know, there are different layers of this. 528 00:42:21,559 --> 00:42:24,079 There are people are cultural gatekeepers who are Marxists, say the Marxist. 529 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,639 There are some who are influenced by neo Marxist like got Graham, she and 530 00:42:28,679 --> 00:42:34,400 Marcus and Fuco. And then there are those who are not influenced by any 531 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,440 of this, but still have bought into these ideas. And what I say 532 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:45,719 all the time is if you believe in in deficit spending or in racing taxes 533 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:51,559 definitis spending to grow the economy, on racing taxes to thought of the economy, 534 00:42:52,199 --> 00:42:55,000 you may never have heard the word the name John Maynard Kanes, but 535 00:42:55,079 --> 00:43:00,920 you're still a Knesian. And you if you, if you may be using 536 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:06,639 Shakespeare in phrases all day along with unknowing that you quoting Shakespeare. You know, 537 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,280 a rose is just a sweet even by another name. You know, 538 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:14,760 we use Shakespeare in the King James Bible constantly in the English language, not 539 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:19,559 knowing that we're not consciously doing that. So it's the matrix the ideas. 540 00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:22,119 So these people may say, well, I'm not a Marxist, yet if 541 00:43:22,159 --> 00:43:27,159 they look at the world through the prism of the oppressor versus oppressed, if 542 00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:31,840 they buy into a lot of these shibolettes, they are influenced by these Marxist 543 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,679 ideas that Katie and I are talking about. And one thing I really like 544 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,400 in this book, and I think gets left out a lot of the history, 545 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:42,800 is the sort of internationalism. And you guys write about the globalism of 546 00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:46,519 the broad leftist projects. So I can't recommend this enough, especially for people 547 00:43:46,519 --> 00:43:50,519 who think just would be interested in the history and maybe their minds would be 548 00:43:50,639 --> 00:43:52,719 changed just by the history and sort of understanding the legacy of where these ideas 549 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:58,280 come from. So, Mike Gonzalez and Catherine Gorga, thank you so much. 550 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,039 And the book is called Next Gen Marxism, what it is and how 551 00:44:00,039 --> 00:44:02,440 to combat it. I hope to have you guys back and do this again. 552 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,280 It was so much fun. Thank you, Thank you. It was 553 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,559 a lot of fun for me. Thank you. Of course you've been listening 554 00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:09,840 to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emil Jaschinski, culture editor 555 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,159 here at the Federalists. Will be back soon with more. Until then, 556 00:44:13,199 --> 00:44:28,519 be lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray.