Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, Hi,
how you doing. Come on in and have a chair. Let's chat
for a minute or two. This week we're talking about communicating with the afterlife
for people who have crossed over into a place we call heaven, the home
base of the soul. And we're featuring a returning author who has a new
book, and you know, part of his book part of the discussion today
is channeling. And channeling has been going on for centuries, a millennia,
actually thousands of years. We read about it in the chronicles of ancient Greek
stories. We get a sense of it in Egyptian phuronic society. I know
that the Maya used it. A lot of ancient cultures used it. And
one of the aspects of the channel is to channel somebody who has that you've
known, a relative, a friend, a mentor, a teacher, perhaps
somebody famous that you would like to communicate with. And I've had people on
this show who are channeling experts. In fact, we've had a couple of
people who've written specifically on the channeling phenomenon. And because of our Newtonian science
and physics, we have a our scientist today today, in our current epoch,
don't really believe in channeling because they can't test it, they can't prove
it in their scientific study. But we have seen and we have read about
important inventions, importance data, important aspects of the physical life coming through channeled
means. And this is where the recipient, someone who wants to connect with
the afterlife, closes their eyes, goes into a meditative state and reaches out
and through a technique or two, connects with the consciousness of a departed soul.
This again, this can go also for people who are noted as scientists
or creative individuals. Really, the sky is the limit and you can look
up books on channeling and get a sense of what is coming through. Today
we are focusing specifically on the afterlife, people who have crossed over into death
and are communicating with those of us who are live in physical bodies here on
the planet Earth. And the aspect that is focused on today is departed soul,
people who have died and their perspective, what are they on what they're
experiencing in heaven otherwise known as the afterlife. And this is important because,
as you'll hear in today's interview. There is an important database known as the
Akashik Records that we think is in that place called the afterlife or heaven,
and my guest today, doctor Matthew McKay, believes that this is something that
people who have departed work with, and he's of the belief that this is
something that is a learning tool. How do we get to that place if
you're physical is the big question I've been having. And we've had numerous guests
talking about the Akashik Records and they had their meditations, but it's looking more
and more that it's much more simple than a complex set of guidelines. It's
more like close your eyes, meditate, and then slowly begin nudging your way
with requests either using your higher self, your guides, those who you believe
are with you on the spiritual plane who can actually lead you to and to
connect with the Akashik Records. Now we've got over a number of programs discussing
the Acasha Records. It's my belief that people like Tesla use the Akashik Records
to bring in new machines. Some of them are appropriate, alternating current the
machines that ran it, some of them are not. Some of them,
the items that came through were not appropriate for this timeline. Case in point,
the Warrencliffe Tower. Why was it not credible for this time period?
Well, the Warrencliff Tower developed energy in the atmosphere, free energy so that
you didn't have to charge for it. And at the time Westinghouse and then
the other people like Edison were not backing Tesla for that, and they actually
pulled their funds so that he couldn't complete the work on the Warrencliffe Tower.
So, and this goes through science as well. And people who are looking
for the creative muse they go to the Akashik records and either through dreams or
through study and failures, they eventually bring through new inventions, new creative ideas,
new paintings, new writing. The sky's the limit And this is what
the Acachek record is all about. And this is part of our discussion today
is when you pass over, this is something that is used to assess what
has happened, to assess scenarios of what could happen and what didn't happen,
and evaluating your physical life. So today's program is Lessons from the Afterlife,
and my guest is doctor Matthew McKay. We have a returning guest this week.
His name is doctor Matthew McKay. We've had Matthew on a couple of
different times. He is the author of the Luminous Landscape of the Afterlife,
and he has taken the whole idea of death and heaven and the afterlife and
the soul, and really I considered a repackaging a very important understanding of what
it means to pass away, what happens when we leave the physical body,
and what heaven is, what it means to be without body, and most
importantly, the various lifetimes we have when we come to this place called Earth.
And the new book that we are talking about today is called Lessons from
the Afterlife, a deep knowledge tation guidebook. So and I had a chance
to look at this as this brand new just came out, and Matt it's
great to see you again and congratulations on this third book. Thanks glad to
be with you. Was this something that Jordan, your son said, Hey,
yeah, we need to pop another book out. We got more to
discuss, or was it just this is this kind of a continuation of the
channeling work that you've been doing with him. Well, we've been channeling now
for fifteen years. And as this has been the case before with Jordan,
he decides that we're going to do want he wants to do a book,
and he and there's a very specific topic. He feels that there's some need
in people who are incarnating to this planet to you know, for something that
he wants to offer them. And so, yeah, it's his idea.
And then he starts, and often and he did in this case, he
just outlined, you know, here's the basic you know, what the book
needs to look like. And then I guess I just started. I'm a
scribe. I'm just writing down what he has to say to me and putting
it together in the book over time. So it took about a year I
guess of channeling to get this. Let's let's go back to the beginning.
Jordan is your son who passed away. How many years has it been now
since he Ye, it's fifteen and a half years. And yeah, So
when he died, he was on his way home on a bicycle from work
and some men accosted him wanted, I think, to take his bike.
There was a huge fight and eventually broke away from them and one of them
shot him in the back and he died on the street. And I think
I wanted to know from the moment I heard about it, what anyone who
loses a loved one wants to know is that that soul still exists and are
they okay? Are they okay where they are? And I just set out
on a journey to find Jordan and to answer those questions. And you know,
I saw them initially through mediums. I saw him via this process called
induced after death Communication I ADC that Alan Bodkin pioneered. That came out of
E m DR and it's a very variation of BMBR, which I use all
the time with my clients to help the problem loss. And I did have
the experience with Bodkin of actually hearing Jordan and hearing him say the things to
me that I desperately needed to know that he was okay, that he loved
us, that he was watching over us, he was a good place,
and that was very powerful and meant so much to me to hear his voice
and to have the actual moment of contact for the first time since he died.
But I wanted to have a conversation with him. I wanted to actually
be able to ask questions and hear his answers and respond to him. And
so I consulted the late Ralph Messner, who's kind of a specialist in after
death communication, in the afterlife and use of psychedelics for you know, achieving
insight and awareness, and he taught me how to channel and how to do
channel writing at Channel Communication. That night, I went home and had my
first channel conversation with Jordan, who just blew my mind. And Yeah,
I didn't think something like that was possible for me, but it was is.
And ever since then, Jordan has been telling me amazing things. I
mean, you know, you know, he's answered my deepest questions, and
he's advised me and guided me how to live my life. And he's given
me a picture of the afterlife and our purpose in coming to earth that I
could never imagined at that time and has meant so much to me. It's
been such a gift for me. Talk about the channeling process, Matt,
I mean, you actually have provided a meditative approach for people who read the
book to do their own form of channeling, which I think is fantastic.
But when someone is preparing to connect with the afterlife, be it somebody who
they're familiar with or not. What is the channeling process? Is it simply
a meditation or is it an intention? Before we go in, talk a
little bit about the process. Yeah, you know, it's something that I
think anyone can do. I've taught hundreds of people had a channel, and
a lot of clients that come to me who've lost a dear person in their
life, and I've talked of the channel and so it's actually pretty simple.
And you know, just first of all, you just need something to create
eye fixation to, like a candle. That's usually just quite nice poking in
your eyes on the candle. The next thing you need is an object that
connects you to that person on the other side, and it could be something
that they owned or something that they gave you, but it's just some object
that connects you to that person's and then the process of opening a channel.
Before you do that, make sure you have a notebook, because you want
to write down your questions and write down the answers. Physically writing them down
as part of the channeling process, and it actually deepens the altered state necessary
for channeling. So have a notebook. The actual beginning of the channeling process
is simple of a positive meditation, just a breath based meditation. You pay
attention to your breath, You bring your attention down to your diaphragm. On
every outbreath, you just count for stout birth one in the second outbreak,
two, third, half, three and so forth to get the ten.
Then start over. So you're just focusing on your breath and when thoughts arise,
notice the thought as soon as you can and gently bring your attention back
to your breath. So that's the meditation. It's a very simple focusing,
breath based meditation, and it does create an altered state and it begins to
open the channel. So I just encourage people and I do myself. Just
go through a number of counts to ten on the outbreath until I feel a
kind of quietness, settling in a kind of receiptivity, the kind of openness,
and at that point my thoughts sort of slow down. And at that
point Ralph taught me to just visualize an orb the color of the sun right
above your head. Just imagine that orb of their colored sun, and ultimately,
as you're visualizing it, also be in touch with the person you love
and have the full intention of connecting to them out of love. You're going
to connect through love, And then visualize the orb expanding like a tube all
the way to the person that is on the other side. And at that
point the channel is open and you could start, and I encourage people to
just begin, write your first question. Just watch the words take shape on
the page. Again, that's part of channeling, part of deepening your altered
state. Watch the words and then open and wait and the first thing that
enters your mind, the first words, and your mind writing them down,
even that they don't make any sense, Just trust that whatever shows up will
eventually make sense. Write down the very first things that are your mind.
Sometimes you have to wait and see what happens next. Maybe another phrase or
another sentence comes, and just keep waiting until you have what feels like an
answer and then ask your next question. Now, the answers come in different
ways. Sometimes it comes as a download of knowing just boom, you know,
you just know it. You don't even have words for it is total
awareness. Sometimes it's just very compressed, just a few words. Sometimes it
comes as a picture, an image, and sometimes it comes as a whole
string of words so fast. Sometimes you can't even keep up with it.
But it comes in different ways and it's okay. Whatever way comes is fine,
and just look down what you get. That's the process that Ralph taught
me. And it's exactly what I use when I contact Jordan every week we
channel, and it's exactly the same process. And other people use the process
and are able to channel as well. You have your son as the afterlife
connection for your channeling, but somebody else who perhaps doesn't have a special person,
can they reach out and say, I'd like to have someone to work
with in the afterlife to channel, or how would you suggest somebody who doesn't
necessarily have a loved one or anyone of note, how did they prepare?
How do they reach out and find that connection? Yeah, and that's really
I'm glad you're asking that because it's is an important question because you don't necessarily
have to can't channel someone who's died. Uh? And so you know,
remember that moment I talked about you send the message, the orbit is above
your head and you're preparing to send the message, you're preparing to open the
channel. Well, now that's the place where you the moment where you decide
on the address of your of your channel, the spiritual address. And now
if you don't have a loved one on the other side, you can you
can channel your spirit guide. We all have spirit guide, usually more than
one, but we we all have spirit guides who are intimately involved in our
lives and are are guiding us in any ways. Uh and and so this
is an opportunity to open the channel and actually ask questions of your guide another
and you can have the same kind of conversations that I have with Jordan,
that I have with my father sometimes with your guide. And another opportunity or
another address you can send channel messages to is your higher self. You're the
part of your soul that always remains in spirit, and all part of us,
part of our soul energy incarnates in these in these bodies that we live
in. Part of our soul energy always remains in spirit, always is in
the afterlife, and we can actually channel our own higher self and the and
the sole energy that always remains in the afterlife has knowledge that we forget when
we come here. It has knowledge of all our past lives. It has
the wisdom of everything we've learned in the afterlife, and so all that knowledge
is there all that wisdom is there, and we can connect to our own
wisdom, most of which we have forgotten and is you know, we we've
had amnesia for when we incarnate. And the third thing you can do is
you can you can channel directly to the divine and in this very much like
prayers, but but it's it's a more active process. In prayer, it's
not asking for things from the divine. It's not asking can you help me
with this or that? But it's it's asking for guidance, asking for understanding.
And so we can send messages and and questions the divine and get answers
in the same way we can get them from our guides, the same way
we can get them from loved ones on the other side, in the same
way we can get from our higher self, our soul. Listen, spirit
is there? Uh and I And the book covers this afterlife heaven if you
want to call it that, if you're you're a religious person. But is
it important to be connected to the afterlife as a physical being? And if
so, what is the download? What is the what? What overall themes
are coming through while you're channeling Jordan that is I mean he's telling you about
the afterlife, but I'm just curious about your take. Well, I don't
think it's really super important to know everything about the afterlife. I mean,
I think if you are concerned about and worry about and fear death, as
I have for much of my life and as many people do, knowing as
much as you can about the afterlife can be a big help. But I
don't think it's necessary to know a lot about the afterlife in order to have
an effective life here. So yes, it can be really, really useful
to know about it, and I have found a lot of reassurance because Jordan
describes exactly what it's like, and he also describes why we leave the afterlife,
or why we a part of our energy incarnates to come here and live
in these bodies. You just said that you used to be fearful of death?
Uh, what made you less fearful? In working with your son who
passed over, He's just made it so clear to me that we live on
after death, and that in fact, our relationships and the love that we
have for for those who have died, survives death. Death has no dominion
whatsoever over our relationships, over our love, And I think the most important
thing he's conveyed to me is that love, that relationship continues and and and
we can we can nurture that relationship. We can be deeply engaged in the
relationships with those on the other side. The love is there, the relations
there. And what Ralph Messer used to say to me is those those those
people, the souls on the other side, are just a thought away.
The thought just thinking of them opens the channel. And we don't realize that.
We think of the loved ones that think, oh my God, that
person's gone, and feel a sense of loss, or remember something about them
that we missed, but we don't realize that thinking about them actually opens the
channel and that and in that moment we can actually send messages and get messages.
And that's all channeling is, is just thinking of and connecting to our
loved ones and and and through that channel connecting and communicating. I mean,
you're describing a certain form of growth, spiritual, physical, mental growth that
I am after reading this, beginning to think that is a part of the
physical incarnation. And I don't know how much background you have on the Hindu
and Chinese and these other how these ancient other cultures, including Native Americans use
the afterlife to help them in the current life. But it seems like it's
very important and we're not paying enough attention to it. Yeah, and that's
really true. I mean, all the cultures you mentioned facilitate in many cases
journeys into the afterlife to get guidance, to get wisdom. And I think
there's just tremendous value in that. I haven't attempted to do that. Well,
I actually that's wrong. I you know, Michael Newton wrote a famous
book on the Journey of Souls, and he was the behavioral therapist like I
am, and I am a hippo therapist too, And I'm fascinated by that
book because he he hypnotized seven thousand people before he ever wrote a book,
but before any of these people knew what the afterdoc had looked like him seventeen
seventy seven thousand people and they all described the same thing. They all described
the same elements of the afterlife. Uh, and that was that was a
very powerful experience for me reading that book, and then I learned how to
do that kind of regression to you know, where you regress somebody to their
past life then progress them into the death of the past life and then into
the life between lives, and I help people observe that life, and Ralph
helped me do it as well, have the experience of of of seeing me
after life through a regression. So there are we do actually have some tools
to help people enter and look at the afterlife. But the ancients, certainly,
and the and and these and the great spiritual traditions offer tools as well.
Uh. And so I'm there's some beautiful ways of learning about the afterlife
that are now available to us, including just channeling souls who are there who
could tell us what it's like. Yeah, and I'm beginning to think that
we are supposed to do this. And in our Western culture we think it's
kind of a deprived, depraved focus by thinking or considering dead people. You
know, we make movies on that, whereas in the Latin culture, day
of the Dead is huge. It's a week long celebration where people go to
the grades of their loved ones and they I don't know, I mean,
you would know better than me. But if the Day of the Dead has
ceremony where you do seek to connect through a form of channeling the information of
your lot, your past loved ones, or more or less, I just
think the ceremony brings something out that we just don't appreciate doing right, because
because what does that ceremony really mean? It means that the dead are not
dead, The dead are, on some very important level, are still living.
That our relationship with them is very much alive and active, and that
our love is active, and that we can send love to them and they
can send love back to us. That's really what I think that day is
about, is the sending of love back and forth. That's a great point.
Yeah, that's a good point. It's a very beautiful tradition, you
know, don't you. I mean, I'm just curious about your thoughts about
here in the United States and then Western culture. I just think we stigmatize
the whole death process, you know, and it's like when somebody passes over,
that's it, You're done. Which isn't true, is it? It's
not true? And and I think the reason death is so stigmatized here is
that we we're just not comfortable with what does it mean to die? You
know, Well, you disappear, you cease to exist, or or worse
yet, maybe you go to hell, you know, And we have that
God or the Divine sits in judgment of us and that and that we may
be cast out. And that's one of the things that Jordan's said over and
over and over again to me. There is no judgment uh in in the
afterlife that you know you're You're not evaluated as good or bad. You're simply
there to learn. We incarnate to Earth to learn, we return to the
afterlife and we continue to learn. And in some ways it's our sacred mission
is learning. Because what Jordan has told me is that God created us,
or the divine or the all Source, whatever we want to call it,
created these individual souls and we are God. We're all part of the say,
we're all one. And that's one of the things that it's really important
to know when you know about when you know the after, I learned about
the la after. Like what you learn is the power paradox. We're all
individual souls and we're all one at the same time, and we're all individual
souls and we're all God at the same time. And that paradox is so
powerful and to be aware that of that oneness. But why do we exist?
And what Jordan says is that the Divine creates individual souls which are part
of it, and sends them into a physical world to learn because there are
things the divine cannot learn in the spirit world. For example, how could
God ever understand what loss is. God doesn't lose anything. God doesn't lose
anything, and so God could not understand loss and mourning and grief. He
has to send us to the world, to this impermanent world, to experience
loss and to understand what it's like. What does that mean to lose and
to grieve and to miss and to seek and to hunger for someone that's gone
or something that's gone. So we we learn all of this and uploaded to
God. So everything we learn becomes part of what God knows. God continues
to evolve. That's the other thing sort of interesting. You know, God
doesn't judge, so that's kind of doesn't fit very much with my Judaeo Christian
history. God doesn't judge. There's no hell. God welcomes us all into
into you know, the spirit world. But God created us and the whole
physical world to learn to learn things that aren't possible to know. There's no
pain in the spirit world, so how could we learn how to love in
the face of pain? Unless we came to a physical place in which we
struggle and face all the obstacles and pain that we experience. Is such a
great point, Matt, because and I want to talk to you real briefly
about how we script each life because there must be and I'm really curious that
about what Jordan has to say about this, and then also your impression if
we incarnate to a physical lifestyle a lifetime, is there a master script that
can be modified or is it we're following a script to the t and we
live and we die with this pre arranged lifestyle. Such an important point,
and you're raising here well, first of all, when we choose a life
and we offer from what I understand from Jordan and what actually Michael Newton describes
in his Journey of Souls is that we choose a life when we're ready to
incarnate, and we're offered three or four different choices, and we get to
choose among them and what's and we sort of understand some of the main outlines
of that life, some of the main things that are going to happen.
You might be incarnating into a body that has certain physical problems or a family
that has certain dynamics or a point in history where there's there's inflections of history,
like wars are happening or you know, so we kind of understand and
we have a sense of what that life is some of the main elements that
life. However, the longer we live that life, the less those expected
outcomes are likely to occur, because all of our individual choices actually ultimately affect
what happens in that life. And so we enter a life with and it's
sort of scripted. It's like we could kind of see what that life kind
of looks like, but once we enter it, the script starts to change
because of our own choices, and so each of our choices actually ultimately affects,
you know, the various twists and turns of that life. So we
actually create, in some point of the physical life beyond the script. So
we get a kind of a master script, is what you're describing. But
as we live it, and you're just said just now that the longer that
we live in a physical body, the more choices we have, what you
suggest, choices we have, and the more we start to depart from the
script that we understood at that moment where we first chose the life in the
same way. I mean, this is another strange thing. But you know,
when you from the spirit world, you can look at the entire Earth
history and you can see it from beginning to end. You can see the
whole history of the human race from beginning to end. But the paradox is
that we all have free will. So we come here, we incarnate,
and we kind of change that history as we live. So there's the history
as it should have been, and then there's all of our individual choices that
keep changing that history. You know, there's a trajectory we're on in terms
of what's going to happen to this planet, in terms of, you know,
are we going to protect it or not? And all of the individual
choices we were making, the billions are sold on this plan, all the
individual choices we're making are changing that trajectory every moment. So the ultimate where
things were destined and it could be very different because of all of our individual
choices, and each life where it was destined to and can become very different,
or what was destined to include can become very different because of all of
our of our choices in that life. Talk about talk about manifesting, because
if that's the case, and we have this godlike quality. We're all part
of God. We manifest our reality right well, yes and no. We
come to a physical reality that that the Divine just sets in motion and then
sends us here and we sort of have to cope with it. God,
We have to cope with all the costs of fact. You know this idea
that you know God, you know, pray for rain, God will give
you rein you know, pray for help God. God will secure your problems.
Uh, you know, pray for for a child and God will send
you That's just not true. According to Georgia, God doesn't operate in that
way. God sends us here. God will guide us, God will give
us support, God will send us love. But God doesn't fix things.
We come here and have to figure this out ourselves. All all we come
here into this huge matrix of cause and effect. It's the whole world is
a massive a network of cause and effect experiences, and we were dropped into
the middle of it, and we have to work with it, work within
it, and so our our life and part of our mission here is to
figure out how to bring love and live love in the midst of whatever condition
we're dropped into and just just one other thing I want to say about you
know, the reason we come here. So we come here to learn.
And each of us have an overarching you know, lesson, which is learning
how to love in the face of pain, which we can't learn how to
do in the spirit world because there's no pain. But then we have individuals
lesson plans. So some of us are working on increasing courage in the face
of obstacles and difficulties. Some of us are are working on how how to
speak and persuade others to to move toward spiritual truth. Some of us are
learning how to how to overcome certain you know, characteristics in our in our
response patterns as souls. You know, So for example, we retreat whenever
we a soul might have a tendency to retreat whenever they experience something difficult or
some sort of hardship, and and we might come life after life working on
that one lesson how not to retreat, you know. Like in terms of
my past lives, I have a whole history of when when I go through
when I go through a loss and go through pain, of just withdrawing from
my from all the relationships, pulling back, and and I've done that in
many lives, and I've so I've been working on that one lesson for a
number of lives, and I'm still working on it in this one. And
so we often have lessons that go over multiple lives that it take us a
while to learn, and when we finally kind of get that one, we
move on to another lesson. But then there's the overarching lesson of how to
love in the face of pain, which all of us are are learning.
Here We're going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify
themselves, and we will return shortly with my guest today, doctor Matthew McKay,
discussing his new book, Lessons from the Afterlife. We'll be right back.
My guest today is doctor Matthew McKay. He has written a new book
called Lessons from the Afterlife. It's co authored by his son Jason, who
is in what he calls the heavens or the afterlife, and he has been
channeling his son for a number of years now, and this book is one
of three channeled looks at afterlife. Talk briefly about karma, because karma is
a big deal in the Hindu religion and lifestyle. If we have past lives
where we were really harsh with other people, perhaps we were killing people randomly,
or we're just not good people, and we come into a new life
and we kind of want to amend our behavior. Would you call that a
karma lifetime or how would you describe karma? That? What I understand from
Jordan or what it's worth, is that karma isn't like retribution or punishment for
our past mistakes, sins, what have you. So in a past life,
if we were cruel and mean to people, now we automatically have to
go into a life in which we're punished for that, but for that by
by being victims of someone who's cruel and mean and so forth. However,
what he says, karmen is just the lessons. It's just a lesson plan.
That's what I figured. Yeah, so the past, whatever we did
in the past life often indicates that we're still learning something important we haven't we
haven't gotten it yet, We're still we're still struggling to learn it, and
so we will enter another the next life. We'll have opportun tunities and situations
in which we have to learn about that. For example, if if we're
if we used cruelty as a way of controlling people and managing things in our
life, Yes, we might enter a life in which we experience that cruelty
coming at us, but not as a punishment, but in order for us
to learn what it feels like to be on the other end of that kind
of cruelty. So it's not a punishment, it's it's a lesson. Uh,
and and and that and and and then we might have many, many
experiences that are helping us learn that lesson. We might we might not be
a victim of this kind of cruelty. We might be in a situation where
we witness it and see how other people suffer with that cruelty. Or maybe
we're in a situation where we can do something about cruelty and we learn how
how to respond to it. So the lesson isn't always just It isn't about
punishment. It's about learning and and the karma is always about completing our lesson
from one life to the next. That's fascinating Jesus. This new book,
Lessons from the Afterlife, has direct channeled UH material from Jordan and I like
what you did? You say? You'll ask a question. And then Jordan,
on the left side of the page is answering these these questions. And
this is the fundamental fundamentals of the book. What is the Jordan's goal in
Lessons from the Afterlife? Is it just the continuation of the theme of what's
happening in this part of the soul's life, because the soul lives in the
body and then is in the afterlife as an entity. I guess you call
the soul an entity? Well, I mean he what he wanted to do
in this book is three things. He wanted to first all, help us
understand from at least from his perspective, what is this? What is this
physical universe anyway? What is it? Is it illusion? Is it a
dream? Why is it here? Why are we interacting with it and encountering
it? And the second question is why do we come into it? Why
do we come to this experience? What's what's the whole purpose of our incarnation?
Or whether you if you think of it as a dream, why are
we having the dream? And and so the and the third thing is Jordan
is offering some ideas that he has, but he gives people means to actually
come to their own truth, their own experience, so they can read something
about what he has to say about, you know, well, what what's
the nature of the physical unitus? Where did it come from? With?
Why is it here? He has to answer to that. But then they
can do what's called a deep knowledge meditation. The readers can do that,
and there are prompts and they and they can, and then they can ask
questions of their own higher self, of their own of their own soul and
spirit, and they can find out their own answers to these questions. And
some of them may be the same, and some of them may diverge,
because every soul has different experiences. And so it's an opportunity for the reader
to actually encounter their own deepest truth. And Jordan offers his ideas and offers
prompts for them to consider and to do this deep knowledge of meditation as a
way of acquiring or reaching their own And you've simplified it so that it's not
really overly complex. You don't have to be in a meditative state for hours
and hours and hours, and you don't need to, you know, be
in some kind of a meditative school forever to be able to utilize the techniques.
One of the things that Jordan talks about is finding me meaning on earth.
And this is a big one for a lot of people who are in
a state of flux, are like, what am I doing here? My
life doesn't seem to have any meaning? How do people find meaning? Yeah,
that's really really important, and I, I guess I want to just
say something in the beginning. I think we we come here for a reason.
And you know, the way Jordan describes it is, you know,
we're like bees in a hive. Each soul leaves the hive, incarnates,
goes out and finds, you know, wisdom and knowledge, and grows and
evolves, and then comes back and brings all that wisdom and knowledge back to
the high back back, And and that's what that's our purpose, that's the
meaning that we have is to is to go out into the world and grow
and evolve and face all kinds of things and learn all kinds of things,
and and then bring that back. And not only is our own soul growing
and developing and evolving, but now we bring all that knowledge back and all
of consciousness grows, it evolves, and so each of us is on a
sacred mission here to learn and and all the pain we face is not that's
not a problem. It's not it isn't a failure when we are in pain.
Every time we're in pain, it's just an opportunity to learn and and
to grow and to evolve, and and each choice we make in the face
of pain is part of that learning. I'm let me give you this kind
of maybe not a very you know, you know, inspiring example, but
but maybe it is. A mom comes home, she's had a bad dad
work, and she has the boss has been very critical. She's now worried
about keeping her job. She's very tired, anxious and tired, and her
cure it has all these needs right now and needs help with the homework.
And he had a bad day and somebody says something mean to them and they're
very hurt. And see, that's a moment of choice. And all day
long we have these moments of choice. And the moment of choice for her
is what am I going to do in the face of this pain. I'm
tired, I'm exhausted, I'm scared and anxious, and now yet and now
my child needs something from me. So how do I love in the face
of pain? How do I respond to the child in the face of my
exhaustion, in the face of my anxiety. And we're having these moments of
choice all the time. And our life is really made up of those moments
of choice, the significant things, the choices that we make. And they're
not the big choices like what do I do for a living or where am
I going to live? There's a little choices all day long of when something
is hard and hurts, how can I act on love? And and so
he says, that's what we're learning. And and and even when we don't
act on love, we're learning. We can't help but learn, you know.
So let's let's say, you know, dad, you know, slaps
his son and and he and and and then he notices over time that,
you know, that kind of that kind of behavior with his son seems to
be alienating his son, and his son is withdrawing from him. And the
son grows up and and and and and calls him once a year on his
birthday, and that's the end of the really, you know. And but
the dad is learning this is the consequence of not acting on love. So
even when you don't act on love, you're learning, uh, And and
so I think that's that's what we're here doing, facing each of these moments
of choice and learning how to act on love in the face of all the
difficulty and pain of a physical planet. You make it it sound like every
action in every trauma or interaction and everything else in relationship all has an important
place in an incarnation. And I guess you're making it sound like a learning
cycle. We're constantly learning and becoming more aware, and that's the purpose of
being physical, right purpose, that's why we come here. According to Jordan,
Wow, that's pretty trippy. Does does Jordan talk about the Akashi feel
the Akashak records? That is such a big question right now. It's kind
of a spiritual metaphysical question that people have is how do I access this Acashak
records, this database of everything that's happened before, present and in the future.
Yeah, so let's I could just talk about the Kashak record itself for
a minute. I mean, this is this is the means by which the
most learning occurs in the afterlife. You know, here we're learning how to
how to face pain and the obstacles and difficulties and how to love and face
of all. In the afterlife, there is no pain and so a lot
of the learning takes place by the study of the kashk Record. That's the
textbook of the afterlife. That's that's where we turn for most of our knowledge.
So, for example, you can go to the Kashak Record and you
can look at your most immediate past life and you can see all the choices
you made. But then here's the very cool thing about the Akashi record.
You could actually see, well, what would happen if I had done X
and said of hy, yeah, oh you can play it out. Yeah,
what it would have happened if I had taken my son into my lap
and hugged him instead of slapping him, and let me see? And then
what the record does. It opens like the chapters of a book, and
we can actually see it, and we can see the wholes, all the
different ways that that choice would have played out with all of our relationships,
and over time we can see it and then we certainly closed it and it's
it's just the potential. It doesn't it doesn't exist because we didn't know,
and but we can actually see what it looks like to have done X instead
of why, And we can do that in anybody's life. We can go
back to the Kashak record and said, well, what would have happened if
Abe Lincoln hadn't hadn't gone to the Ford Theater that night? What might what
might have played out? Or or if he hadn't you know, had certain
kinds of you know, had had hadn't had Stanton for his secretary of war.
And I'm I'm I'm probably too particular here, but what I'm what I'm
getting at is we can look at people, everybody, every soul has ever
existed, and look at their lives and look at choices they made, and
and the and we can open the Akajak records, Well what would have happened
if they've done X instead of why? And and so there's just an infinite
amount of learning that goes on about cause and effect. Oh my god,
and so the and souls just just spend a lot of time with this study.
And it's sort of if then what if? If if that happened instead
of this, what would have come? What would have transpired? It's just
fascinating. So the Caustic records is a huge deal and after it, but
the other thing you asked about, do we have can we have access to
it? Here? Well, people are starting to learn how to have more
access to it. Yeah, and Michael Newton, who here you know,
the life between life hypnosis, Who's now gone, but the Newton Society,
some of the people there are using a similar kind of hypnotic process to to
access our future on this earth, you know, So we can we can
actually look into our future, and we we can we can communicate to art
to ourself in the future. And also in doing that, we can we
can learn what would have happened if we done X versus Y in this life.
By peering into the future. Basically, we were looking at the Acacak
record for our particular life, and so they developed a hypnotic process for doing
that. Fascinating, fascinating work. So yes, if to the extent that
we are able to access the Acacak record or learn how to do it,
there's enormous learning there. Because it's the learning that is mostly taking place in
the afterlife. We can start doing that here. But I understand that people
like Nikolai Tesla was using the Akasak field to download machines and in some cases
and this is me thinking but not anyone else, some of his inventions like
the warning Cliffe tower, this free energy tower was not supposed to be brought
through because it was so far in advanced. We're talking about free energy,
so you could run planes and cars and stuff without plugging in or without gasoline.
That it wasn't ready, and so it wasn't accepted by the various people
that were funding him, who eventually pulled their money away and the whole thing
failed. So, uh, is there should we be using the Akashak records
as physical beings or as as you're suggesting it's an afterlife tool. You know,
I don't know the answer to that as a fascinating question, and I
you know, I think it's possible to access the Takashak record from the physical
plane here, from from our human brains and bodies. There are probably methods
to do it, and it's from what you're saying, it's very possible that
Tesla was able to. But see again, when you you access the record,
you're not just accessing this moment in time. You can access to the
Akashak record as it's as it as it will happen. So it's possible that
you could have access to scientific discoveries that are yet to be et thevolved but
here's the funny thing about science. As you know, you know, the
telephone was invented in three or four different places at the same time, and
and and and many many inventions, you know, you know, there were
multiple inventors that were all coming to the same uh creation. Yeah. And
the reason for that is because all the steps that occurred before necessary for them
to take that last leap, so that multiple people were taking the leap at
the same time. If you go and bring something that's far in the future
that that we haven't done all the steps to get ready for it, you're
not going to get many people to endorse it because all all of that preliminary
work has not been done. Right. So, I don't know. I
I think the kashak Rec has great potential for us. Whether it's whether we're
going to download science from the future, I don't know. But what we
can do is we can learn about how choices create different outcomes in our life.
I think what I'm trying to ask Matt is I'm very much focused on
previous epochs. I believe in the Yugas, the ancient Yugas system twenty seven
thousand year cycles, and there was a period in human history where we were
able to communicate telepathically that we manifested with thoughts, so forth and so on,
is what they Hindu say. And I'm wondering if using the akashik and
other afterlife systems is part of what we should be using in the physical life
to make it it's the best or the most harmonious. Yes, I'm just
curious about your take on it. And that's why I'm curious about the afterlife,
because if we're supposed to naturally channel our relatives, are our teachers,
our mentors who have passed on, then it would make sense that they would
be part of that a kashak record, and to be able to use that
library and then pass it through to the physical I don't know, I could
be stepping on a lot there. I love, I love what you're saying.
I think in part that's what Jordan is trying to do. I mean,
and what and what other souls who channel are trying to do is bring
that wisdom and perhaps the knowledge of the future into into life here on earth.
But certainly to bring the wisdom, the accumulated acquired wisdom of souls and
of guides, to to bring it here, that to accelerate our growth and
development. I mean, one of the things I've heard of the time is
that there are a lot of souls that are the term is parachuting in advanced
souls at this point, trying to try to shape and turn human destiny because
we've been stuck in tribalism for a long time, and tribalism is what's destroying
is actually and we can see it, we can see it happening right now
today. And tribalism is built on the idea that there's good and bad,
good and evil, and we're good, our tribe is good. That drive
over there is bad, and we can do anything to them. We can
kill them, we can rape them, we can we can enslave them,
we can we can do whatever, because they're they're bad, they're not human,
they're and so the tribalism at its root destroys connection. I mean,
it enhances connection inside the tribe, but destroys connection. And so we're moving
from tribalism to oneness to one awareness of one is and it's a big rough
shift in means. And Jordan is saying that, and others have told me
that there are a lot of people coming in right now a lot of souls
coming in right now to intensify that shift. But here's the problem. In
intensifying it, you also intensify the reactionary processes as well, and so you
have more reactionary and fundamentalist ideas and people clinging desperately to them and separating themselves
and judging each other and so forth. So it's a big struggle. We're
right in the middle of it. And you know, I'm not allowed if
at least Jordan doesn't think that souls in spirit should tell so tell us here
incarnating about the future, because it takes away our free will. So you
know, I stay away from those questions. And I don't hear many people
getting information about the future from souls, and for the reason that we're here
to learn, and you don't learn much if you're just told what's going to
happen. But again, is that just our history right now? And in
earlier epochs, earlier civilizations, this is how they evolved, is bringing through
information from departed souls. You know, I just it's such an interesting topic.
How do we evolve? Do we evolve just by hit and miss,
or do we evolve through advanced techniques which you're submitting, which you are channeled
bits of data from the souls who are formally incarnated but now reside in an
energy field that has unlimited data. You know, Well, that's a good
question. I mean, what you're saying, and it may it could totally
be right, is that there have been periods in our history when we were
much more evolved than we are now. We were much more aware of oneness
than we are now. And I but I do think I just throw this
out. I think those periods where we were aware of oneness, we were
still in a tribal mentality. It's like, yes, we're one because we're
one tribe. Our tribe has our God, and our God takes care of
us and our god you know, you know rex Havoc on the rest of
the tribes. So there was there was a lot of channeling. There was
a lot of of deep knowledge. I think that has been available. So
there were there were ways in which we were more involved, but we were
still tribal. We still still didn't have the big picture, I think,
and and I think that's where we're struggling now because we live in a world
in which we have you know, we can we can go to the other
side of the world in less than a day. Yeah, and you know,
so transportation to communicate all of this stuff has has started to make it
one world. Except we're still have a tribal mentality in one world. And
and that's but now the one world that with technology makes it possible for us
to begin to experience oneness, maybe for the first time. So there's no
way, you know, somebody in uh in Middle Ages Rome could have could
have even begun to imagine, you know, the culture and and the way
of seeing things of Native Americans, and it blew their minds when they actually
came here and started getting this whole different worldview. But but oneness means that
we all understand together and and that's where we're moving toward. I think,
Yeah, I like your your scenario of world citizens where we all are working
together because we're so disjointed. We're looking at the Chinese as adversaries. And
I I'm so impressed with China right now because they've rebuilt their whole country,
their railway and their other utilities are just amazingly advanced. And yet we're stand
offish with them, you know, and other different other cultures on the Earth.
We're not. We're as you say, we're tribes. Well, it's
zero some game, and it's you know, tribes look at things the way
Donald Trump looks at things. It's zero sum. It's like it's if it's
good for if it's if it's good for if it's good for you, it's
probably bad for me. So I don't want anything good to happen to you.
I want all the good stuff for myself. Yeah, And that kind
of that's the tribal mentality, is like I want what, I want everything,
and and I'm not going to give you anything. And and that's kind
of what you're describing in some ways in our relationship to some of these other
countries. You can talk about this forever. I want to talk about one
of the chapters in the in your book. It's chapter three, The Nature
of the Soul, talk about what souls learn last forever. What does that
mean? It means that everything that we learn in this life, when we
die, it becomes available, of course to the part of our soul that
always remains in spirit and our so our soul evolves and grows with everything we
learned here and every past life gave us something that we learned some way that
we grew, and so every life helps us evolve and we keep that forever,
meaning souls, soul lasts forever, soul live forever, the divine lives
forever, and everything we learn lives forever because it becomes part of the whole,
the collective consciousness, the divine, the all, the source, whatever
you want to call it. Everything we learn this rep Okay, that's a
good one. Uh fascinating book. I can't read wait to read more about
it. Does Jordans say that there isn't uh ten thousand lifetimes? We are
living all of the same time. And this is what I've come to hear
the latest last decade or so, is that we are living multiple incarnations at
the same time, and that we jump as a soul into these different carnations
incarnations, which is just like mind boggling, you know, But uh,
is there an is there infinity lifetimes? Or are there certain numbers? Like
I'm gonna you know, this soul needs one hundred lifetimes to be complete.
And I don't even want to get into the completing of of a soul's existence
because it gets into too much complexity. But I don't know how many lifetimes
souls typically have, and I know it can be in the hundreds. At
some point a soul decides when they've done enough and they will stay in the
spirit world and develop spiritual careers. Right, spiritual careers in the spirit world,
including guides, healers, creators, all kinds of scientists, all kinds
of stuff going on in the spirit world. So, you know, I
think that you know, but we do have a choice about how long and
how many times we incarnate, and at some point soul say this is enough.
There was another point you were making and I I kind of I kind
of overlapped it. It's more it's more like, uh, you know,
we learn, we incarnate and then we're done. But what does that mean
we just stay in the spirit world and we go to other galaxies. I
mean, it's a real complex question. It can't be answered with a single
answer. I mean, it's we have, we've we were developing spiritual careers
that that we are, we strengthen over time. Uh, and ultimately we
may choose not to incarnate anymore and we focus exclusively on that spiritual career.
And there are there are many from what I understand, I mean, there
are there are even spiritual careers that have to do with making music and uh
and creating objects and and there are souls that gather together and use their soul
energy to create new new physical forms uh and uh and even to create and
imagine new life forms. And so there's a lot of So just because we
stop incarnating doesn't mean we stop growing and stop having you know, an important
role and in in this in the world of spirit fascinating. Do you have
any take on the huge wave of what they call unidentified aerial phenomenon and who
these souls are that are in these craft and if and when we ever plan
to connect with the souls who live in neighboring planets and all that. Yeah.
I my understanding from Jordan for what it's worth, and also from Michael
Newton's work, is that you know there are there are countless planets on which
souls incarnate. This is not the only one. This is a difficult planet.
It's actually sort of known in the in the ob spirit world as a
very difficult place to incarnate, and so it's an acquired taste coming here.
But there are many, many, many. I don't even have the faintest
idea of the number of plants, but it's huge, and so there are
there are many souls, many many more souls than there are people on Earth,
and so they incarnate all these different places. And of course some of
those places that they incarnate are going to develop technologically to the point where they
can start traveling beyond the speed of light and use warps in the universe to
move from place to place. And I think that's almost inevitable that that has
to happen. And it's probable that some of these people have come here and
observed, But there may also be a reluctance to engage with us, because
if they engage with us, it completely disrupts our evolution as a particular group
of souls on this planet. And so it may be that they are essentially
tourists who observe and learn or have an anthropological interest in other species, and
they develop on other planets without necessarily wanting to get involved and without colonizing us.
Now it's possible also that some advanced civilization may decide to colonize it,
but but at this moment it hasn't happened. So the main point here is
that souls incarnate all over the universe and the universe is not just I mean,
think about it. Why would do the vine create this massive universe just
for some little species to evolve here on some planet in the outskirts of the
exactly sents it all. So there are souls and there's consciousness scattered all over
the universe, and I'm sure that we have encountered it and we will encounter
it. And whether they will choose to really engage with us, there's another
question. I don't know. I hope they do. I think it would
help us on an evolutionary scale and maybe quiet this as you call it,
tribalism and kind of unify the planet a little bit. The books called Lessons
from the Afterlife. My guest today has been Matthew McKay, What is the
purpose of you and Jordan teaming up on this third book? What was If
you could put it into a couple of paragraphs, what are you hoping the
reader gets out of the book. I want the reader to know that love
never dies, our relationships never die, they continue, and that we come
here for a purpose, and that purpose is to learn. And even this
is a difficult, challenging, painful place. Everything we encounter is an opportunity
to learn and grow and evolve its souls, and that everything we take,
all of the learning is taken and given to all to the divine and that's
our sacred mission here. So those are kind of the main thing that the
God or that I created the physical universe in which they which we grow,
but also God grows. I think the other thing, on my point of
view would be that consider the channel perspective to have a more fulfilling physical life.
Because you can get this other perspective that you have from your son Jordan.
I mean, what a great perspective you're getting. And he gives me
lots of other advices. Well, I appreciate it. And you and your
your listeners can can channel and get guidance, support from loved ones, from
guides, from the mind, or even from their soul and spirit. They
can get guidance and uh and it's and it's it's there for them, it's
there for us, and it's a resource that we can we can use and
call upon with simple techniques like channeling and uh deep knowledge meditation. Yeah,
thank you for showing us how to channel. How can people get a hold
of you? I don't see your website on the back of this book,
what is your How do people connect beyond just the books? You know?
It's the website is seeking Jordan dot com. Seeking Jordan dot Com. Okay,
and I'm happy to talk to folks. Are you taking on clients anymore?
Or I take on clients but I don't. I'm not. I'm full
right now and I really am. And also I'm not licensed to see anybody
outside of California, so I'm not seeking you know, I'm not seeking clients.
I'm I'm just hoping that this knowledge can spread and and help folks.
Yeah, it's it's a it's a quick read, and it's packed with information.
And I love that you've given Jordan a voice by actually writing down his
questions to your answer or yeah, questions to your answers. Yeah, no,
answers to your questions. There you go. All right, Hey,
matt continued success and thanks for joining me today. Thanks so much, Cliff,
and wonderful conversation. Right now, Matthew is the only one who is
doing regular channeling books with his son Jason, and there is there's other people.
I think it's noadic science in northern California, in the Marine County area,
the Institute that is studying channel effects, and there's also independence that are
working to bring through new data, new devices and trying to see what the
other side can provide. But I, you know, I don't follow it
well enough. I don't find follow it to the degree where I'm hearing that
people are actually accessing the Akashak records. That's the big question, and I
continue to have the question is how do you access it? What is the
means of knowing that you're in the Akashak field, the Akashak records, and
is it simply intending to receive data and it's coming through. I think that
our ancestors did this regularly. I know the Maya that some of the Shamans
were trained to access the what they call the underworld, which is another word
for heaven or the afterlife. But we don't know a great deal about it.
And I think and I understand why matt Matthew McKay is writing books like
this because he is getting downloads from his son. What's on the other side?
What's the afterlife all about? What do we bring forward to the physical
And it's you know, we're out of touch. Those of us in the
West are out of touch. I think it has to do with physical religion
too, because we're not supposed to know the secrets of the afterlife. If
you're so, I don't know. I don't know how this is going to
work out, but I think we're getting closer to using the afterlife data more
fully, and so it's good to hear from him and good to learn.
This book is only about one hundred and twenty pages, by the way,
and it's written in such a way where Mass writing a question that his son
Jason is answering, and you get that at the very beginning of each chapter,
and then you get a description and a definition of what is going on.
So it's very good. It's good material. Hey, I want to
mention we do tours every year. We do tours all over the planet.
We got two coming up. We have one in August, which is the
Turkey Tour. We meet in Istanbul. That's gonna be August fourteenth, and
the twenty fourth, another really big one, and really the final tour of
the year is the Sacred Temples of Mexico. That's a quick ones. November
eighth through the seventeenth. That is a week of real powerful Pyramid climbs,
site evaluations, meditations, intentions. A lot of work going on and a
lot of fresh digs are being uncovered that reveal just the extension of the Maya
culture and gives us a sense of just how intricate some of these cities were
that we are going to visit. For more information and the full terrary on
Turkey or our Mexico, go to Earth Ancients dot com, forward slash Tours
and check it out. These tours are almost half, in some cases over
half of what the typical prices are for similar tours in similar areas. It's
just a wonderland of intense fun and focus. Again. For more information,
go to Earth Ancients dot com, Forward slash Tours. Come out and join
us. Hey, I want to mention that Earth Ancients and Destiny are a
sponsor for the upcoming Cosmic Summit. It's happening June fifteenth and sixteenth. There's
actually a pre show on Friday the fourteenth that kind of introduduces everybody, but
that's not really where the speakers are. For more information on this amazing conference,
go to Cosmicsummit dot com, Forward slash Earth Ancients. People like Randallcarlson,
Pravin Mohon, Scott Walter, Steve Collins, and Moore and so on
and so on. We got over twenty three different speakers on a variety of
topics, mostly about ancient Earth that you can check out. This is a
great tour. If you can't get to Greensboro, North Carolina sight of the
conference, go and do the streaming media. You can get it all and
see all the details at Cosmic Summit dot com, forward slash Earth Ancients.
All right, that's it for this program. I want to thank my guest
today, doctor Matthew McKay, and thank you also Jason on the other side.
Appreciate your insight as always, the team of Gail Tour, Mark Foster
and everyone who makes this thing happen. You guys rock all right, take
care of me well and we will talk to you next time. The