WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:10.800 Welcome to Sword and Scale Rewind with your hosts Matt Fondelier and Ian Bag. 2 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:44.280 Hey, everybody, welcome back to Sword and Scale Rewind. This is the 3 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:47.560 show where we talk about that other show, Sword and Scale. You know 4 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:50.640 what, You'll love it. Hopefully you like us too. I'm one of 5 00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:53.479 the hosts. My name is Matt Fondelier. I've written some episodes of the 6 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:56.520 show, but I just love it. I just love Sword and Scale. 7 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:59.920 Scared the crap out of me many many years ago. I just got totally 8 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:02.759 hooked on it. And if you're listening to the show, I sort of 9 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:06.519 feel like you're probably feeling the same way. Now I'm joined once again by 10 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:08.560 one of my good buds, Ian Bag. Well, this is how I 11 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:11.480 found the show. How did you find out about it? Well, I 12 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:15.200 reached out to you. I reached out to me. He said, Andy, 13 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:17.920 let this be scared shitless. I was like, who is this and 14 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:21.480 he's in It's finally and I said, oh, well found Eller and uh. 15 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:23.680 And then I listened to the show. I'm like, wow, I 16 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:25.719 had a chance and maybe I'm part of this. And you said, well, 17 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:26.959 it's a matter of fact. As a matter of fact, yes, 18 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:30.840 come in in and now we talked murder every week. We just loved the 19 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:36.480 way that you talked about dead babies and horrible murders. That we are like, 20 00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:40.560 this guy is our guy. This guy has no shame, but we 21 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:44.799 love him. Well, if you listen to me last week, then you 22 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:48.280 did your homework and you already listened to episode one sixty seven, And if 23 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:51.959 you listen to one sixty seven, you're probably curled up in a little ball 24 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:57.719 in the fetal position in your So this one, this is uh, definitely 25 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.640 one of the more aft up stories that we've done, which is really seeing 26 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:08.599 something because everyone's they're all mess So this one is just this is just sadness. 27 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:13.439 It's just there's a couple parts in here where I know, I don't 28 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:16.599 think we're victim blaming, but we'll discuss sure. That's what we do on 29 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:20.280 the show. This is a reaction show. If you've never listened to it 30 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:23.319 before, what we do is we listen to the same thing you just listen 31 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:28.080 to, and then we say all those things that you're probably thinking, yeah, 32 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:30.479 and let us know if you think some of these things, like let 33 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:32.759 us know what you thought when you her first heard this. Wow, that 34 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:38.639 came out hard. Yeah. When it starts the episode, I'm I'm blaming 35 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:43.439 mom instantly. Yeah, just like a matter because I don't know about these 36 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:45.599 cases. So just the way you listen to it, you just go, 37 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:50.319 this bitch killed her kids. Of course it's true. I have the exact 38 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:55.080 same problem when you're when you get really into the true crime podcast genre, 39 00:02:55.400 --> 00:03:00.960 you find yourself becoming what's called an armchair detective, where just you're lean back 40 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:04.599 and you're you're doing the facts, searching yourself. You're trying to figure it 41 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:07.960 out before the answers are revealed, just the facts. Mike, Yes, 42 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:12.879 and I am like you two and that when this episode started and you hear 43 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:15.000 them, well, really, even before they mentioned the mom, they just 44 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:21.000 mentioned the dad. They mentioned Kevin Krim, who's like on an airplane back 45 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:23.800 from a trip. He's looking forward to seeing his kids, and then police 46 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:28.439 are boarding the plane and I'm like, this guy did it. That's why 47 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:30.960 I thought. I was like, now he was fucking around in Chicago, 48 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:34.439 that son of a bitch was having all sorts of orgies. Well and Matt 49 00:03:34.439 --> 00:03:38.120 his wife murdered, right, Yeah, And it's not at all the story, 50 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:40.919 No, at all, there's two twists right off the bat. Yeah, 51 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:45.400 I was shocked. Were you shocked that they made that announcement on the 52 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.960 plane? The police stay seated the police, I think they have to, 53 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:52.759 but he wasn't being arrested. Of course they wanted they wanted to get to 54 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:57.599 him before, you know, but it didn't make sense that they wouldn't have 55 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.439 just been waiting for him or made the announcement for or him. Kes that 56 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:04.199 made it sound like there was a criminal onboard. I think I agree with 57 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:10.120 you. They could have handled this in a much more subtle way. Right. 58 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:14.800 I'm assuming that the reason it took place on the plane was because they 59 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:18.800 knew that this guy was in seat twenty two F or whatever, and so 60 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:27.279 they could very easily identify this person, right versus waiting at the end of 61 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:30.560 that ramp when you get off the plane and then just knowing which of these 62 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:34.920 passengers is the guy. It was just it was just weird. And when 63 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:40.040 when I gotta say this, when I say things about they handle this wrong. 64 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:42.240 You know, at the end of the day, we're all human, 65 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:46.319 Like they may be the police, but they're humans. Sure, they don't 66 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:48.319 they don't we don't know, you know, they may be experts, but 67 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:51.000 at the same time we're just human. So absolutely. Yeah. So when 68 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:55.720 I when I say, oh, these fucking douche and wetpts, yeah I 69 00:04:55.839 --> 00:05:00.240 was more so. I was more shocked than a MSNBC suppressed sends our eyes 70 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:04.879 out and coach, Yeah that's funny. I was like, really it was 71 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:10.920 in coach, that's weirder. Comedian was upfront. Yeah that's right, baba. 72 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:14.079 I fly first class. Wow, look at you, and I like 73 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:15.680 to brag about it every so often. What's that like, I've never done 74 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:18.519 it? Shut up, Let's just take a minute away from this case. 75 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:24.240 I'm totally serious. Look, I don't have never, I've never flow never. 76 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:26.480 Okay, I'm gonna tell you. Hold on, let me tell you 77 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:31.639 the one first class experience. No oh. This was me coming home from 78 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:36.920 my honeymoon with my beautiful wife, flying home from London and through circumstances that 79 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:41.439 were out of our control, we nearly missed our flight from London back to 80 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:47.600 California and running like home alone style, running through the airport trying to make 81 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:51.519 this flight. We finally got on the flight and we had to walk through 82 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:59.680 first class and I looked at two seven year old boys who had these full 83 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.879 cliners, and I'll never forget just sipping from a cup of orange juice, 84 00:06:03.079 --> 00:06:06.639 and I was like, I'm sweating and panting from running through the airport, 85 00:06:06.879 --> 00:06:10.600 and I was just like, these fucking kids, they're never gonna understand they're 86 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:14.000 seven years old. They're never gonna remember this experience. This is my honeymoon. 87 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:16.480 This is my honeymoon that I think, honestly, I don't think kids 88 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:19.360 should be allowed in first class. No, I really don't think it should 89 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:24.199 be a twenty one and over club. You should be required to drink. 90 00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:27.600 I have required to drink in first class, and then you have everybody turned 91 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:32.600 into oasis, going to calling people pan heads for no apparent race. I 92 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:35.399 tell me about this glory, because again I've only I walked through. And 93 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:40.839 then they closed those two little hamper curtains. I don't see the curtain. 94 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:45.360 The curtains close on international flights, but they don't on on just a regular 95 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:47.040 yeah, domestic. I looked at the curtain and they were like, sir, 96 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:51.160 turn your head away to look that. Don't even think about moving that. 97 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:56.199 We're gonna have you exit from the back of the Blaney. Um. 98 00:06:56.279 --> 00:07:00.639 It is the best flying drink. You get a snap, you get, 99 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:02.800 you get sometimes you get a hot towel. They used to give you hot 100 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:05.839 towels, and uh and uh, stay, give you a little package when 101 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:10.040 you fly international. Then you just put on some socks and aren't you own. 102 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:13.399 You can get pajamas. You can wear pajamas. It's the best. 103 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:17.079 But the problem with first classes one day you end up flying private jet. 104 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:23.759 Once you're facing the dragon, Dude's chased because once you're fly private jet, 105 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:27.240 you come back to first class and oh this is bullshit because on private jet 106 00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:31.639 you have estimated time of leaving a departure, and on a on a on 107 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:35.680 this first class you're still leaving at exact times. So yeah, it is 108 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:39.639 be honest with me. And another audio is going out to a lot of 109 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:42.839 people. But you're living the high life. You're flying private jets. You 110 00:07:42.319 --> 00:07:46.000 know you're flying first class. Ever been to the mile high Club? Have 111 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:49.079 I ever been to male high? Up? For the listener step been shipping 112 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:55.360 on an airplane? I'm not answering this. All right means yes on Southwest 113 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:01.480 back years ago, sad dumb all of say, I'll tell you fish sticks, 114 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:07.199 that's all us. I don't want to know what that means. We 115 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:11.040 have to laugh up front here because I just don't want to get into this 116 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:13.680 exist and I don't want to do it. I don't want to talk about 117 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:15.839 these things. As soon as we get there, it's no more, no 118 00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:20.000 more first class, no more first class talk. Yeah, I have to 119 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:24.399 reluctantly try to bring us back to the story here. Now, neither of 120 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:26.879 us have to let you know, just let you people know. Michael's looking 121 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:30.519 through it at us through a window over there, telling us to keep on 122 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:35.559 track. Yeah. Probably he's just like you guys telling this story. Mike 123 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.039 doesn't care. He he cares how we roll. He cares, he does, 124 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:41.639 he cares too much, he cares too much. All right, let's 125 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:45.720 try to let's try to get through this story. This one's really messed up. 126 00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:48.679 I don't have kids. I know you don't have kids. So neither 127 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:52.000 of us have had to deal with having a caretaker, somebody that you trust 128 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:54.679 too. How about a dog walker? Oh, there you go, you 129 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:58.639 have to trust him. So I've never had a dog walker before. Yeah, 130 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:03.279 my wife, My wife makes them rigorously fill out for him. And 131 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.639 yeah, we have to have they would to be suggested I gotta yeah, 132 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:09.120 all sorts of things, but as we learn in this, you can't trust 133 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:13.200 them. Mean shit. I mean honestly, this is the type of story 134 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:16.519 that makes me feel like if I were to have kids, I would I 135 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:18.120 don't care how hard it would be. I would have to just constantly be 136 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:22.639 watching them. I would not allow anybody, nobody allowed to look at It 137 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:26.519 sounds like, according to my friends, that's what happens on the first child. 138 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:30.279 If you have another one, you stopped caring as much as much. 139 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:35.360 Yeah, it kind of slowly slips down. Yeah. I was actually this 140 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:37.200 past week and I hung out with some friends of mine, just punched a 141 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.360 microphone, some friends of mine that I hadn't seen in forever, but somebody 142 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:46.120 that I grew up with, and I was reminded that at age eight, 143 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:50.759 my friend and I were dropped off by my parents at the movie theater to 144 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:56.639 go see a classic film called Hot Shots Part And I always remember that it 145 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:58.279 was like the first time I ever got to see a movie in the theater 146 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:03.399 by myself without my parents. But you're eight, eight years old, and 147 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:05.399 I had it in my memory that this happened. But as I've gotten older, 148 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:11.720 I have thought that can't be true. I can't possibly be true. 149 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.120 And I hung out with my friend and I was like, do you have 150 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:18.360 this memory? And he remembered the exact movie title and everything, and we 151 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:22.679 know when that movie was released, and it just my parents are incredible. 152 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:28.159 I have amazing parents. Can you imagine in twenty twenty one or twenty twenty 153 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:33.120 two having dropping off your eight year old child to go see a movie and 154 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:37.120 this was something that was just happening all the time. I'll go a reverse 155 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:39.960 on you. Isn't it sad that we can't? Yes, that's the problem, 156 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:43.279 Like not that. Can you believe you could? You could? It's 157 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:46.559 like, right, well, you're right. Why why have we gotten to 158 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:50.799 that point? What? What have we let take over the internet? Is 159 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.159 that what it is? I think there's just two Like it used to be. 160 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.960 You only found out about a missing kid if you were a milk drinker 161 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.919 and you bought write carton of milk, you know what I mean? Like 162 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:07.080 now I want to check my email and they're seventeen links, especially because I 163 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:13.919 read true crime stuff. My Facebook wall is my Google search engine. I'm 164 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:16.600 surprised police have not come to my door before. I've got to Google some 165 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:20.720 very upsetting things. Oh my god, but christ, Google just hasn't shut 166 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:24.440 you down. Hey man, can you come down a little bit. Yeah, 167 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:26.600 I'm sure it's only a matter of time. But I think, honestly, 168 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:30.519 that's why I think it is. I think, my You know, 169 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:35.960 all of the people now who have kids have heard more stories than they could 170 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:39.720 ever ever, so you expect to hear, so you don't think there's more. 171 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:43.639 You don't think more stuff is happening. You think it's the same amount. 172 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:48.240 But we know more. I'm gonna even go a step further. I'm 173 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:52.960 willing to bet that there's a little bit less than they're used to be, 174 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.960 but now we know more. And the reason I think there's less is because 175 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:01.879 of like security cameras and stuff. I think back in the day, people 176 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:11.080 could be just completely carefree about kidnapping somebody without anyone finding out, Like there 177 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:15.320 was just so many ways to get away with X, y Z. But 178 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:20.480 now I think there is a deterrent to having everybody having the camera and their 179 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.039 hand cameras being installed in buildings all the time. So I feel like there 180 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:30.480 has been a slight decrease, but the amount of information has just exploded that's 181 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:31.919 my hot take. That's a good hot take. Thank you. I'll tell 182 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:35.000 you mine. I mean it's not a hot take. I just something about 183 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:39.440 that what you just said. I could never get my camera open on my 184 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:43.480 phone and time to tape anything. I don't know how people actually tape stuff. 185 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:48.919 Yeah, I can describe about what just happened my camera. But well 186 00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:52.200 again, i'll tech talkie after the show. Here, let's get let's get 187 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:54.759 that baby on your home screening, and I feel like we can figure this 188 00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:00.480 out. That's two episodes and a rail you've called my grandpa. That is 189 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:03.840 awesome. O love it. Yeah, all right, Hot Shots Part two? 190 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.559 What was your favorite part? Oh my god? Well, I think 191 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:11.720 at the very end of the movie when mister Bean, who's the long lost 192 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:18.840 husband is rex rescued from prison and Charlie Sheen, who's rescuing him, is 193 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.639 carrying him on his shoulders and is getting shot repeatedly, and mister Bean, 194 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:26.279 who's not the one being shot, is the one who's like complaining about how 195 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:31.720 long it's all taking. And there's just a big finale with the American Gladiators. 196 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:35.320 I mean, it's it's one of the all time greats. I love 197 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:39.039 those kind of dumb movies. Yeah. Yeah, it's sad that there's not 198 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.519 more in the month anymore. Yeah, anyone else is sad in this horrible 199 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:43.279 case. I know, I'm trying to push it off. I don't know 200 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:48.399 if let's go to that. Let's not, let's not review hot Shots Part 201 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:56.080 two. Oh no, Well, let's go back to this idea of needing 202 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:01.840 somebody to take care of your kids. It's not going to be just anybody. 203 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.799 You want to make sure that you get references, right, And in 204 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:11.480 this particular story, that's exactly what happened. They the parents were very conscientious 205 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:15.080 about who's gonna watch their kids, and well, they weren't even planning on 206 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:16.840 getting a nanny, were they right? They were just making it work, 207 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:22.799 just working from home. Mega Network, Mega Network, And then they were 208 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.679 The wife was approached by somebody, Celia, who said, hey, you 209 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:31.120 should hire my sister. She's great with kids, Celiac, She's worked with 210 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:35.600 kids before. And she said, when you guys have your third child, 211 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:39.480 you guys are gonna need her. You're gonna need it. Now we find 212 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:43.639 out the very third child you're gonna need, You're gonna need this babysitter to 213 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:48.519 get rid of two of them. Oh no, horrible, but if you 214 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.519 done in sorry, I apologize to everybody at home work. Well, we 215 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:56.080 find out at the very end of this episode that can I stop. Yes, 216 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:01.600 I want to put it out there to people children. Yeah, I'm 217 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:05.759 available. Look when I'm not flying first class, let me take care of 218 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:07.799 it. Yeah. I want to know. How many people have a nanny 219 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:11.879 And there's there's different rates of nanni's, like one that just is in the 220 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.120 afternoon, that comes over after like after school, or do you have a 221 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.639 full full day nanny? Because I know a couple of friends that have nanny's 222 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:26.399 um and there they I have one that has a full time nanny, and 223 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:30.200 then I have one that just you know, they come over and they do 224 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:35.360 stuff when when after school? So do you do you think it's unnecessary? 225 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:39.639 Do you think do you think it's gross that somebody has one? Or I 226 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.759 need to know take on nanny's Yeah, because I don't. I don't know. 227 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:46.799 Like when I hear the story, I'm like, well, my mom 228 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:48.519 didn't work and my dad worked and my mom was able to keep it all 229 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:52.720 together, Like why us all together? Why? Why does she need why 230 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:56.039 does she need a nanny. I mean, listen, everybody, I gotta 231 00:15:56.120 --> 00:16:00.480 just preface it by by trying to apologize as an advance for people who do 232 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:06.240 live this kind of a life. I do think that if you don't have 233 00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:10.080 a job, one of the people in the relationship doesn't have a job, 234 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:15.200 that person can be the full time is the nanny, right skin maybe should 235 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.519 be the nanny. But I also understand that people have ambitions, people have 236 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:21.919 things that they want to do in their lives. They don't want to be 237 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:27.720 seen as just a mother or a housewife or insert word here. So I 238 00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:34.159 understand that if again, just in this nineteen fifties view of Americana where the 239 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.600 husband goes off to work and it's just a wife's job to watch the kids. 240 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:41.120 That's kind of like an old school of thinking. So I can see 241 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:45.440 how having a caretaker at home to help lighten the load if you have multiple 242 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:49.639 kids, it requires a lot of work. I get it, I understand, 243 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:52.639 and I know this is this is weird, but it's part of the 244 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:56.799 story. I'm like, how much money is this guy making at CNBC? 245 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:02.799 Right, he can afford a nanny, but not a first class ticket. 246 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:11.000 M still on this first class thing but you know it's and they're paying cash 247 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:14.039 for right At least i'd have to do as half a dense attacks right off. 248 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:17.599 Yeah, well, I mean again, I just like you. I 249 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:22.160 feel like I've known people on all parts of the spectrum. I know people 250 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:26.440 who had nanny's, people who didn't have nannies. I never did. Both 251 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:30.759 my parents worked, so I don't really know. I guess that's why they 252 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.960 dropped me off at the movies when I was eight years old. A lot 253 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:38.240 I hired about. I was taken care of by the man theaters movie staff. 254 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:47.039 Um. But yeah, I was raised on popcorn. I just it 255 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:52.519 does seem story yoh yeah please. So I'm on LinkedIn and for some unknown 256 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:56.160 reason, I get a job opportunity for a comedian. It's for a nanny, 257 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:00.160 for a comedian to nanny a comedian. No, it's an it's to 258 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:03.440 be a nanny of a comedian's kids. Okay, there we go right now. 259 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:07.960 And it was full time and it was sixty thousand dollars a year or 260 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.759 something like that. There you go. But I was just like, this 261 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:12.519 is weird, And as I read through it, I figured out it was 262 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:15.720 one of my friends. Oh really, Yes, he's a little pale, 263 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.680 he's blonde, he's from New York. If you can't figure out what that 264 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:25.119 is. But it was. But I when they said paid cash, I 265 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:30.079 was, I was like, this, doesn't you know even though they did 266 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:34.759 so much, they wanted to references and stuff. I felt they paid what 267 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:40.440 they they got what they paid for, even though they didn't pay for a 268 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:45.440 murder. They but they still didn't, you know, and I didn't do 269 00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:51.119 enough. Yeah, because if they had paid them over the counter, I 270 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:53.640 don't know what they under the table is. If they had paid them in 271 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:57.920 a more professional way, maybe you're not getting a professional. If you're paying 272 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:02.839 cash, you're not a professional unless it's a side job for a professional that 273 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:06.640 you know. You know, But it's at the same time, I was 274 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:10.160 just like, ah, it really bothered me. It bothered me a lot. 275 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:14.680 And I'm not blaming the parents. It's just because we know that there's 276 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:17.519 so many of this happens, and none of that happens, right, Yeah, 277 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:19.480 you know, because babysitters don't get paid cash and they don't murder us 278 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:22.799 all, you know, so one more kids so basically get paid cash, 279 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:26.440 right, I'm saying they get paid cash and none of them barely have references 280 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:30.000 and stuff like that. Usually teach your kid how to smoke and stuff. 281 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:37.400 But then it's it's it's it's I don't know why it bothers me that they 282 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.039 paid cash for a nanny, but I felt like they didn't get a professional. 283 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:47.279 Yeah, it's sort of like in the dating world. What I heard 284 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:51.079 was that there's certain dating sites that you go to if you're actually serious about 285 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:53.519 having a relationship. You want to go on one of those apps. You 286 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:56.920 know it's a free site or whatever. You're not going to have high quality 287 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:00.039 dates. Yeah, you gotta go to plenty of Fish, right, is 288 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.039 that what it is? Somebody this weekend they'd met on plenty of Fish. 289 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.000 I'm like, is that free? And I like, am I won't be 290 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.839 careful? Yeah exactly. I know it's a weird thing to equate it too, 291 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:11.759 but I can I can see what you're saying. You do want to 292 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:17.759 have a nanny, that's I guess licensed in blah blah blah. But well, 293 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:21.640 do you go to the mechanic that has a shop or the guy that 294 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:25.559 you know has another job that's nothing to do with being a mechanic. But 295 00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:29.279 does it? Does it for fun in his garage. Yeah. Yeah, 296 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:30.759 no, I mean again, I feel like I have except and I don't 297 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:34.720 know why I'm so mad that like, that's that least. Yeah, that's 298 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:38.119 the least of the situation. Yeah, but it annoys the fuck Adamy. 299 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:41.680 Well, i'll tell you what bothers me about it. Okay, Well, 300 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:45.480 besides the by that she murdered children, it's very upsetting a fact. But 301 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:51.519 what is like really disturbing about this and kind of messes with my brain is 302 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:59.039 that allegedly this woman was a pretty okay employee for like two years. Right, 303 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:03.960 So even if you can get past the whole notion of the we are 304 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:08.079 paying under the table, after a year, she's proved herself, she's proven 305 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:11.920 herself, and I feel like at that point the walls are really coming down. 306 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:17.440 I mean, you people are getting too relationships with partners that last less 307 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:19.799 time than that, you know what I mean. So to me, the 308 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:26.960 really upsetting part is that this woman just had this like hatred and stuff just 309 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:33.559 like festering for two years and never said anything about being uncomfortable, and then 310 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.880 she just snapped. And nobody, at least the way this story's told, 311 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:40.079 nobody had any clue that that was going to happen. It was. It 312 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:47.240 was interesting that she would say things, but she would put on a different 313 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:51.240 face with the people, right, you know. They said that she was 314 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:56.119 being she was annoyed that they offered her more work because she needed more money. 315 00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:59.400 Like instead of asking her saying saying, no, can you pay me 316 00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:04.839 more? Yeah, she instead was just like incredulous that they would even suggest 317 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:10.279 that. And the hours weren't crazy. It was like twenty five hours a 318 00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:14.079 week at is one of the parts of this episode I have like bulleted and 319 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:15.759 outlined in my outline. We can get to it right now. Though she 320 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:19.839 was only working twenty five hours a week, right, that's the part that 321 00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:22.799 blew my mind. I didn't have another job and was able to live in 322 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:29.680 New York and pay for her son's private school. There's this whole thing where 323 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:33.079 she's like, it doesn't want her kid to repeat a grade, so they 324 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.319 let's get into that. Let's let's get into private school. Sure, Catholic 325 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:44.640 private school seven thousand dollars down payment? Yes, what what's Christian about? 326 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:51.200 Then? That's a great question. I don't get. I think Catholic private 327 00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:56.039 school should be free, and they pick who they want, but it shouldn't. 328 00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:59.799 You shouldn't be making a profit off of there's no church that should be 329 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.200 make a profit off of teaching somebody. Yeah, I guess when I hear 330 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:07.240 private school though, if whether or not it's a religious school, I just 331 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:12.119 feel like the like school institution takes priority over that church institution, you know 332 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:15.640 what I mean. Like, I'm not saying it's right, but I just 333 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:19.160 feel like, if you're a school, you are, like you're allowed to 334 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:25.279 charge people tuish in I don't think that should be exorbitant. And I'll tell 335 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:27.480 you from personal experience, I'm still paying my college loans because I went to 336 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:32.680 an extremely expensive college. My wife is, yeah, and it's it's ridiculous. 337 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:34.319 I mean, I had a great experience there, but I mean I've 338 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:38.559 been in a college for over ten years now, I mean at least tubes. 339 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:47.880 Yeah. So I mean I understand that a nice university is going to 340 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.400 cost you some money. And I guess, like the people in this story, 341 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.440 my parents sent me to a school that they were not prepared to pay 342 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:00.880 for financially and thus still paying for loans and whatever. But this situation in 343 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:07.039 this case, I mean the woman hadn't seen her son for like ten or 344 00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:10.920 eleven years, which was a little bit unclear to me, but she like 345 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:15.599 fourteen or something left the family and then I guess maybe started to make a 346 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.920 little bit of money here and then told him to come on out. And 347 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.759 then now her expenditures are just going through the roof. But I'm she was 348 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:27.000 also sending money to different charities, you know, all over the place. 349 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:33.720 And it seemed like she had been told by somebody that her kid has to 350 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:36.799 go to a private school. Yeah, if you want your kid to be 351 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:40.799 anybody, or if you don't want them to go to hell, because mom 352 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:44.400 and dad there's they're they're they're able to pay for a nanny and they're sending 353 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:48.720 their kid to public school. Right, So what what? Where? Did? 354 00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:52.319 Where did this twist off? Like? What what happened that this lady 355 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:57.920 has been talked talked into or told that her kid needs to go to private 356 00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:03.599 Christian Catholic school? Right? Yeah, I mean that's one of the larger 357 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:07.359 questions in this first part of the story. I one can only surmise that 358 00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:11.200 she it was almost, at least in my brain, like the seeds of 359 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:18.880 her envy like just starting to see how she's trying to be like Marina, 360 00:25:19.160 --> 00:25:22.400 Like she wants to be able to give her kids the kind of thing that 361 00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:26.960 she's seeing and being a part of every day. And she's going home to 362 00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:32.480 this you know, shitbox apartment and forgive the term. And so maybe in 363 00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:37.480 her mind this is a an elite status that my kid is attending this school. 364 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:40.720 I'm better than you. Yeah, trying to find a way to get 365 00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:44.119 a little bit weird, weird jealousy, weird jealous weird, weird kind of 366 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:47.720 thing. We're about twenty five minutes, twenty six minutes into the show, 367 00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:52.599 and I'd like to bring up that my sister's name is Jocelyn. Oh, 368 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:55.680 it is funny when like a name you're closed with. It's like the killer 369 00:25:55.720 --> 00:26:00.279 in the story and my sister has all these attributes. Well, let me 370 00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:03.759 ask you, though, is your sister name Jocelyn or is it Yoselin. 371 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:07.680 Well, from now on, she's gonna be al a lot tonight, Yosel 372 00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:12.680 Yocelin. When you recommend this show to people, maybe don't recommend that your 373 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:23.599 sister listens to that one. Oh, jos BOSSI uh uh I. I 374 00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:30.599 think the family, not the family that hired her, but her family was 375 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:36.480 setting up somebody. It wasn't specifically these people, but what were they setting 376 00:26:36.519 --> 00:26:41.319 them up for, like putting this lady in charge. Hmm. It was 377 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:45.759 very bizarre, the whole as it. I don't may have gotten too far 378 00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:53.480 ahead of the story. The fact the fact that they wrote fake recommendations and 379 00:26:53.680 --> 00:27:00.279 stuff from people that didn't have children. Yeah, um is it's not just 380 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:04.240 a scam, it's evil, right because they had no idea how this lady 381 00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:08.519 took care of kids. Yeah, especially when it's with kids, Like if 382 00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:14.079 you want to write like a fake reference letter because you've got a job at 383 00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:18.279 the Domino's Pizza and you want to say that you worked at Little Caesar's before, 384 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.240 but you really did it. Yeah, I'm not. I feel like 385 00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:25.400 that's a little bit more okay, right, if you're going to be in 386 00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:29.240 charge of children. Though, let's be honest here, it's not School of 387 00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:34.640 Rock. Yeah, you know they they the twenty five hours thing though. 388 00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:38.359 Yeah, that's that's what's wild to me. And I'm glad that we have 389 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:44.960 circled back to this because there is a line in the episode where they're saying 390 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:52.599 that Yosselyn could either have quality time with her son hayeseus or have money for 391 00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.240 hayeseus. Right, And at the time hearing that sentence, it made sense 392 00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:00.039 to me that, Okay, she's either got to spend time with her kid 393 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:03.680 or she's got to be at work to make money for the kid. I 394 00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:07.599 get that she can't have both. But then when you hear that she was 395 00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:11.640 only working twenty five hours a week, now, I'm like, how does 396 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:15.319 she not have plenty of time to be and still hang with a kid. 397 00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.960 She could work two more part time jobs and still hang with a kid, 398 00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:21.920 or she could work one more full time job and still have time with a 399 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:25.559 kid. She won twenty five hours. Let's commute time for most people, 400 00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:30.720 right, and it's I mean, it is exhausting work to be dealing with 401 00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:36.200 kids. I get that, But twenty five hours. Let's just say on 402 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.920 a five days a week, Yeah, Monday to Friday. That's five hours 403 00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:45.519 for Monday to Friday. So that's ten o'clock to three o'clock or three to 404 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:51.599 three to eight or four to nine, right, four to nine probably actually, 405 00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:53.640 I know you just were trying to mock me, but I'd probably say 406 00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:57.559 no, would probably be two to six. What what would you think? 407 00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:02.319 What do you think her hours were? Well, they do talk about this 408 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:07.039 idea of the like dance classes, so it's after school kind Yeah, it 409 00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:11.680 was like an after school thing, so three thirty three. Yeah, but 410 00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:14.880 also one of the kids is like ten months old, it's not even in 411 00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:18.200 school, so my mom probably takes care of that child more. Yeah. 412 00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:22.359 Right, either way, I think even if she showed up at two in 413 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:26.599 the afternoon, which sounds pretty late to me, that's a sweet job. 414 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.400 Yeah, that's like, that sounds pretty great to me. And you still 415 00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:34.519 have the weekends. Yeah, chug your beers with your other child, do 416 00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.319 you unless do you think it was two and a half hours in the morning, 417 00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:41.920 two and a half hours and the swing shift, yea swing shift, 418 00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.880 and she's traveling back and forth. But even then maybe, But that's that's 419 00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:51.880 that's a school bus driver. That's a school bus driver job exactly. And 420 00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:57.119 the idea that the wife, Marina started to say to her, Hey you 421 00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:00.799 need some extra money, I'll give you some extra hours. Here, your 422 00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:07.720 son can dog sit. And for some warped, fucked up reason she got 423 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:11.359 she saw that. Yeah, she took it as an insult, like, 424 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:15.519 how dare you say I do more work. I already playing work like I 425 00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:19.839 just that's the disconnect that I'm just not understanding. She's offering you further employment 426 00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:26.319 and add ten more hours to your week. Which what have they created this 427 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:30.400 over the two years that she's worked she's worked for them? Correct? Have 428 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:34.559 they created this jealousy? Like did it start out different? Which isn't said 429 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:41.400 in the show? You know she's basically they've made it seem like she was 430 00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:44.920 above it as she was there, which is fine. You can be above 431 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:48.960 things, right, You can be like, well, look I don't want 432 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.960 any more hours, I'll keep these hours. I'll figure it out. You 433 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:55.839 can be above it, but don't take it and then be mad that you 434 00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:00.599 got it exactly right. And also, if you are gonna get mad about 435 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:03.799 it, let's try to find some other ways to blow off steam here, 436 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:07.000 right, You know, you don't need to be like talking back to your 437 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:11.400 boss or anything. But what she was she she didn't talk about it like 438 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:15.000 they never said there was problems with her, like her work was shoddy. 439 00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.240 It was the opposite. Yeah, this was extremely reliable and which which is 440 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:22.720 so bizarre, Like I fucking hate you. I'm gonna make this so good. 441 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.240 You'll never find anybody as good as me. Yeah, you, son 442 00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:30.160 of a bitch. I'm gonna clean this kitchen counter and you won't look like 443 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:33.119 anyone ate here. Yeah. Yeah, you will eat off this floor. 444 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:37.799 You will never buy plates again. Well, listen, I know what it's 445 00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:40.799 like to be angry at work. I think we all do, you know, 446 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:44.680 But no, I love this. Well, this isn't work, man, 447 00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:47.960 this is this is just play. This is this is twenty five hours 448 00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:56.799 a week. I'm gonna kill Mike. I'm above him. I guess it 449 00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.880 just became too much to have like two different lives. You know, she 450 00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:07.720 was like taking care of these rich kids in this huge house and they weren't 451 00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:13.880 her kids. But then when she was with her kid, then the setting 452 00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:17.799 wasn't right. So, you know, I think it just nothing ever felt 453 00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:23.559 comfortable. Now, why do you think she was mentally ill? I think 454 00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:30.720 she's mentally ill to the point where she diabolically committed a heinous ad. Right, 455 00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:36.720 She's she's not insane, right, she's evil? For Yeah. Yeah, 456 00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:42.680 I think she has a jealousy, a crazy mental disorder that doesn't stop 457 00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:47.680 her from being a functioning person in society, but one that allowed her to 458 00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:52.079 think it was okay to do this. That's to me, I don't I 459 00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:55.720 don't know how the courts ever draw that line, like, yeah, you 460 00:32:55.759 --> 00:33:00.480 were insane for doing this, but you weren't so insane that you didn't know 461 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:07.880 you were doing this, and the we should It's been over half an hour. 462 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:09.519 Now we got to just now talk about the horrible thing that we have 463 00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:13.400 been avoiding talking about. Can we talk about something before we go to there? 464 00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:16.480 Please, let's try to get to a whole hour before we talk about. 465 00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:21.519 Let's all just all sit around and whispered this a second. Anybody else 466 00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:24.079 find it weird that mom said she liked the boy the best. I actually 467 00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:30.079 remember that line. She talked about how much she liked the boy. Oh 468 00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.640 no, yeah, So then one of the boy dies and one of the 469 00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:36.759 girls dies, but one of the girls lives. And now later on in 470 00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:38.720 life, you're gonna hear that, because yeah, I was like, oh, 471 00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:40.960 and then what do they do? They have two more kids? Yep, 472 00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:44.000 and they're both boys. I was just like, oh my god, 473 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:49.079 I was so bizarre. It was just like, holy shit, Yeah, 474 00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:52.640 it was so bizarre, I will say, And it's brought up in this 475 00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:57.759 episode too. This does seem like a pretty strong family considering all the stuff 476 00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:00.759 that happened. Yeah, you know, it's that is pretty Uh. The 477 00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:05.000 fact that mom and dad are still together and had more kids is probably not 478 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:08.719 going to happen in many families after something like that, right, and just 479 00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:13.079 it's like one of the clips that I have is them talking about, like 480 00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:16.519 focusing on like the good things that came out of this, which, as 481 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:20.960 a listener just hearing the case, I'm just like, right, no good 482 00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:22.920 came out of this? And what do you what are you talking about? 483 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:27.280 Because it would have been very easy for them to blame each other like why 484 00:34:27.320 --> 00:34:30.519 were you out of town? Where were you? Where were you? Like? 485 00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:31.920 What? What the fuck? You know? Why why weren't you with 486 00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:36.679 two of the kids at least? Right, But thankfully they don't do any 487 00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:40.239 of that. At least I would not that. Yeah, exactly exactly, 488 00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:45.639 So so tell us what happened, man, lets let's get involved. So 489 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:52.599 they have this whole thing about both Jocelyn and Marina. Again, that's the 490 00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:58.280 mom, the babysitter and the mom. They're sharing this responsibility of taking the 491 00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:01.039 girls to their different classes. And this one ends when this one's about to 492 00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:06.960 start. And for two years, this whole system they had in place all 493 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:12.199 worked out. But on this one horrible night, the mom goes to pick 494 00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:15.119 up her daughter and meet them at the ballet class or whatever it was, 495 00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:21.559 and she's not there, and then she starts frantically calling where are you, 496 00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:25.679 and the woman's not picking up the phone. And then, of course the 497 00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:30.679 really horrible part, which is the mom comes back to the apartment with her 498 00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:35.440 other daughter. It's really dark in there, which is creepy as hell, 499 00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:38.800 and then they open the bathroom door and they see that both of her kids 500 00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:45.280 have been brutally murdered, and the woman who did it is standing there waiting 501 00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:50.519 for her to see it. And then that woman tries to kill herself, 502 00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:55.119 but only after she's had this moment of glory of watching the woman that she 503 00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:04.039 hates be miserable. It's so insane. It's just so insane that she's just 504 00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:12.440 waiting there. And the anger that she used on these kids is incredible. 505 00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:15.800 Yeah, it's never brought up in the court case, when when when where 506 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:19.320 you listen to it? I'm just like, I'm like, can you like 507 00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:23.800 the anger was insane? They thought they were they were their heads were taken 508 00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:29.679 off, right, Like, that's crazy, that is so much anger. 509 00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:34.920 And then the way I apparently they bled out slowly yep. Uh so just 510 00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:37.599 just like so watching them, watching them, but like, well, that 511 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:43.559 was the thing that I think, uh, we probably could have spent a 512 00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:46.360 little more horrible time with there probably just wasn't enough information about this. But 513 00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:51.159 to me, the part of the story that didn't really get addressed is the 514 00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:59.239 fact that Yosselyn was in that bathroom with those two bodies for ninety minutes, 515 00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:02.440 however long it was. It wasn't three minutes, it was way longer than 516 00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:07.039 that. And we talked. They talked a lot about what happened with the 517 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:10.719 actual murders, and obviously one of the most disturbing things ever is the idea 518 00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:15.239 that the bodies were stacked, which is so gross and weird. And I 519 00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:22.079 made, yeah, she's an organization first, But then to just sit in 520 00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:27.760 the bathroom with the door closed and just sit there in that eerie silence. 521 00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:30.800 You know, do you think she was waiting to kill the mom? Uh? 522 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:35.760 No, only because that's we're kind of told in the story. Otherwise, 523 00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:37.239 I don't think they tell us. But I was just like, why 524 00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:40.360 would you wait there? Why wouldn't you have just stabbed yourself then? Like 525 00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:44.280 you really think you would just wanted to see your face? Yeah, I 526 00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:46.880 mean that, that to me is what makes it because even more because you 527 00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:51.159 think you'd see, let mom see the see the bodies, and then stab 528 00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:52.719 mom and that would be the last thing they seen. Right. But I 529 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:57.960 guess there's there are things worse than death, you know. It's like you 530 00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:00.440 you you don't get to die. You have to live the rest of your 531 00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:06.280 life knowing that in what her she her mind is like you were a horrible 532 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:14.599 parent and blah blah b Yeah. So I just thought that the whole I 533 00:38:14.599 --> 00:38:19.360 mean, the whole bathroom scene is just so deeply disturbing. And I don't 534 00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:23.800 know why the idea of the bodies being stacked is so upsetting to me. 535 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:29.960 You joked about it like that, there's like an organizational aspect to it, 536 00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:32.880 because she's a man. You joked about it just gives me trouble. You 537 00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:36.599 joked about it. What else I'm supposed to do? Cry? Yeah? 538 00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:40.159 No, But I don't know. For some reason, if the descriptor had 539 00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:45.840 been that the bodies were just disheveled and thrown into the tub. I don't 540 00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:50.039 think it. I mean, it's still very disturbing, but there is something 541 00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:55.079 about the meticulousness of the stacking, and it's there's another episode of Sword and 542 00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:58.480 Scale, one of the ones I worked on. I think it's actually a 543 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:00.280 plus one. I don't think it was one of the main ones. So 544 00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:01.199 unless you want to pay for her, you can't listen to it. That's 545 00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:06.000 what Matt. You said there for Sword and Sale plus if you want to 546 00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:09.320 available now. But it was another case where the dude like stacked the bodies. 547 00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:12.679 It's got to be some sort of so weird. It's got to be 548 00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:15.599 some sort of mental disease, right, It's got to be it's got to 549 00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:17.519 be some sort of psychiatry thing. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. 550 00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:21.360 If you're if you're an expert, let us know why people would do 551 00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:25.400 that. Yeah, yeah, I just it's got to be something. There's 552 00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:31.119 no there's something to it. It's it's it's it's definitely specific and calculated. 553 00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:35.880 It's not random. To answer your question, though, I just I guess 554 00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:38.719 I already did. I don't. I don't think that she was ever intended 555 00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:42.760 on killing Marina when she got there. I think she wanted Marie. That's 556 00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:45.559 who she would suffer forever. It's weird that you don't kill the person that 557 00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:47.239 you're most angry at, because that's who she was most angry at. They 558 00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:51.360 never say she didn't get along with the kids or the kids didn't have a 559 00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:54.519 good time, because the kids would have been telling mom, hey, don't 560 00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:57.880 send us with her. You would have you would have seen a change in 561 00:39:57.880 --> 00:40:00.079 the kids, right, Yeah, And they never said that the kids had 562 00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:06.079 that. So all that animosity and anger was built up towards this woman and 563 00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:10.239 just just just wanted to take away. Yeah, just like you said to 564 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:15.320 Just the anger that this woman had, just the amount of rage is just 565 00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:21.159 so disturbing. And you know, again, there's plenty of other horrible details 566 00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:27.159 to talk about. The idea that the little girl who died like tried to 567 00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:30.719 fight for her life, but you know, she's six years old. The 568 00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:34.480 idea that the other sister was, you know, four years old and she 569 00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:38.639 saw everything was kind of old enough to understand what was happening. All the 570 00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:44.599 neighbors were calling the shrieks of the mom. I mean, there's just what 571 00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:49.119 an awful, awful thing. Yeah, Yeah, that that noise. Mike 572 00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:53.480 brings up one of the sins. I can't remember which sin he brought up. 573 00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:58.559 It was the sin of envy. Envy, but there was. She 574 00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.599 probably hit about four or five sins, right, yeah, she wasn't. 575 00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:05.679 She didn't not just the one time, right now, she she because she 576 00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:10.320 was would have been jealousy would have been one of them, right, jealous 577 00:41:10.679 --> 00:41:15.800 and vs. Jealousy? What what? What are's? Uh, there's sloth, 578 00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:22.559 she did it slowly. There's rage, rage, rage, there's she's 579 00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:25.360 coveting her life. Yeah, right, there's the one where you eat all 580 00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:29.400 the time, gluttony, gluttony. Maybe she was gluttonous too, and didn't 581 00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:30.800 say They didn't say she didn't. She didn't run away because she couldn't. 582 00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:37.119 Uh. Yeah, murder's got to be one of them, right, yeah. 583 00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:42.239 Yeah, it's been a while since I've seen seven. Yeah, it's 584 00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:47.039 covered pretty exclusively in that movie. Well, there's other signs that, uh, 585 00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:52.079 that Yoselin planned all this, including the fact that the night of the 586 00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:59.079 murders, she left a bunch of legal documents behind with her family and included 587 00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:04.840 essentially a sue A side note, she had every intention of killing herself after 588 00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:09.320 her grand presentation, if you will, and just a real lesson. I 589 00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:13.800 feel like all of us learned in this episode is you can't cut your own 590 00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:19.559 throat and die. No, you just can't. People have tried for millennia. 591 00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:22.039 You know, there's the exception that proves the rule. But this girl, 592 00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:28.559 this monster, excuse me, this monster sliced so deeply that she broke 593 00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:31.159 bones, she damaged her vocal core. She had to be like intubated. 594 00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:36.280 She lived through it. So you know, people out there thinking about it, 595 00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.039 just don't do it. You don't do it. I love the way 596 00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:40.920 when she wakes up in a hospital, she just instantly starts blaming them, 597 00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:46.559 just starts complaining, they made me work twenty three hours a week. Yeah, 598 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:52.280 these asshotas. I have to imagine that's where the narrative of she did 599 00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:58.440 all of this because she hated Marina so much. I'm wondering if that's not 600 00:42:58.519 --> 00:43:00.880 where that part of the story where he really gets filled in, because it 601 00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:06.840 sounds like once she's on her in her recovery bed, that she's just a 602 00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:13.280 fountain of complaints and you know, excuses, And I feel like that would 603 00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:16.079 have been the time where she had maybe said why she was doing what she 604 00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:21.159 was doing. She doesn't really ever say why though she doesn't really know. 605 00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:22.960 But that's again why I feel like maybe she this is part of like her 606 00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:27.159 just talking to doctors and people in the hospital. There's there's got to be 607 00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:32.079 and it felt like she was pretending to be mentally ill. Well that's the 608 00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:37.639 last part of this entire story, is this is the kind of trial and 609 00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:45.440 the argument over whether or not she was mentally ill. Can you imagine having 610 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:50.119 to represent this woman? No, Okay, here's something I wanted to bring 611 00:43:50.199 --> 00:43:54.480 up. The person that represents her, did they believe in her? Because 612 00:43:54.519 --> 00:44:00.840 I was listening to that lady talk and I was like, um, she 613 00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:06.159 sounds like she kind of m believer, which was really disturbing to me. 614 00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:10.239 Well, when you are like a defense attorney, and especially if you're like 615 00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:14.400 a state appointed one. Was that a state appointed one that I believe it's 616 00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:17.599 like a public defender. Okay, this is a real tough case to have 617 00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:25.000 to defend. I mean, the idea that she pleaded not guilty but had 618 00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:31.039 also admitted to killing the kids is such a one too that like, I 619 00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:35.880 just don't know how you defend that person. But instead they just tried to 620 00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:39.559 make it seem like she was guilty, not guilty, but I did it. 621 00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:45.840 Yeah, yeah, like that's I know, all the evidence that you 622 00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:49.920 have, all the physical evidence, all points to me doing it, and 623 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:52.800 I did do it, but I'm not guilty. What's the one? What's 624 00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:55.800 the what's the mental disease where you're like arrogant and you just believe yourself all 625 00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:59.760 the time no matter what you do. Narcissism is that? Do you think 626 00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:02.719 that's what she actually has? And I don't think that's I don't think you 627 00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:08.800 can get off on anything being a narcissist extreme version of narcissism. Yeah, 628 00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:15.360 I mean a narcissist would probably be would probably be angling that the killing was 629 00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:22.239 more to benefit her life as opposed to doing it to ruin someone else's life. 630 00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:28.800 Well, but she was doing it because they had what she deserved, 631 00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:32.599 she felt she deserved. Yeah, I mean that's I think you could be 632 00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:37.119 right. There's like a light narcissism at play here. That's that is probably 633 00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:44.000 part of it. What about this idea that she went and saw a psychologist 634 00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:46.519 of her own volition, like her family never told her to do it, 635 00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:52.280 even though she told him that she was like having visions of the devil following 636 00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:54.320 her at church and they're like, oh, okay, cool, well see 637 00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:59.840 Tuesday, Like you don't need help. But she went and saw a there 638 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:05.280 you specialized in criminal behavior something absurd like that, right, which I don't 639 00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:07.360 know how that was the psychologist that she found. I think it was just 640 00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:13.280 by mistake that that that was that was his expertise. I mean kind of 641 00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:16.559 not right, but you could have been like, that's that's why he would 642 00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:20.559 have thought. She would have been thought off, I'm feeling crazy, I 643 00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:23.599 gotta go see a psychologist. She goes and sees a psychologist. He asked 644 00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:29.400 questions that she's not you know, like expecting, right, and that kind 645 00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:31.639 of maybe gives her ideas well, That's what I was wondering, like what 646 00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:36.679 the fuck did this guy tell her? Because he gave her a clean bill 647 00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:40.920 of health, and then she went and yeah, murdered two children. I 648 00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:45.159 went to a psycho. I go to a psychologist every once in a while, 649 00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:49.199 and I go because I don't go to I go to a therapist rather 650 00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:54.000 than the one that can give you drugs, because I prefer to not go 651 00:46:54.079 --> 00:47:00.079 the drug way on things. And and yeah, right, I've seen you, 652 00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:12.400 uh fan knows puzes um, but I always they never I don't remember 653 00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:15.079 them ever judging me, writing me down, just that they just let me 654 00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:22.159 talk. So I didn't understand what that was where you got a clean bill 655 00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:24.079 help because they basically just said, yeah, come back, you know, 656 00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:28.320 come back. They could have just been asking that. They never said go, 657 00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:31.400 yeah, no, you're fine, go. They never say that that's 658 00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:36.480 true, although they they do say in this case that there was just never 659 00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:39.960 a follow up appointment. But that does sound a little a little strange to 660 00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:45.199 me too. Most therapists want want that next watch a business. Yeah, 661 00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:50.559 yeah, that's true. That cliche is always we're out of time. Yes, 662 00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:52.880 we don't have time to talk about your murderous impulses, but we'll save 663 00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:55.760 that for next week your love of nice. Let gets back to that next 664 00:47:55.800 --> 00:48:02.360 week. Yeah, it did. The I thing is just it just grosses 665 00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:07.400 me out and just terrifies me. The person, Yeah, the person that 666 00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:16.480 can kill somebody with a knife is fucking way more like just evil than anybody 667 00:48:16.519 --> 00:48:22.159 that shoots somebody with a gun, pushes anybody. You have to very rarely 668 00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:27.280 is it one knife staff, right, and just to be able to feel 669 00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:30.599 that over and over and over again, and the feel of something being cut 670 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:37.360 is just that's when. Yeah, that's that's evil. That is completely evil, 671 00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:40.920 but a good person to have a Thanksgiving because they will make your turkey 672 00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:45.800 carved. Yeah. If you ever need to vent a potato before you put 673 00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:49.039 it in the microway, I can get it through. Yeah. No, 674 00:48:49.159 --> 00:48:52.960 I agree, And I will say pulling the curtain back a little bit when 675 00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:57.679 we're looking at Sword and Scale episodes, trying to stay away from like Appy 676 00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:00.039 shot Er. Yeah, I mean there's plenty of episodes that that just there's 677 00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:06.800 enough other circumstances that it's compelling enough story. But generally speaking, when you 678 00:49:06.920 --> 00:49:10.599 want to tell a story about somebody who's super evil, they are generally committing 679 00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:16.639 a first hand, you know, kind of crime. Yeah, I would 680 00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:22.440 agree that the knife crime is really creepy. Also, any sort of like 681 00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:28.880 farming equipment, you know, interesting like a like an axe, Oh okay, 682 00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:31.840 you know, pretty scary. There is this guy in Vancouver that would 683 00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:37.000 kill hookers and feed them to pigs who save that for a Sword in Scale 684 00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:38.760 episode? Do you know about him? That's pretty cool? Yeah, that's 685 00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:44.000 pretty cool. Listen, man, this is my business. I call him 686 00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:47.639 the Hooker Bacon, the Hooker Bacon murders, the Hooker Bacon murders. I'm 687 00:49:47.800 --> 00:49:54.760 wow, oh god, how do we go from as a seriousness that's stupid? 688 00:49:54.880 --> 00:50:00.639 Like a seconds, we should be committed. Um, you actually provided 689 00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:02.559 a great line here. I can get us right back unless you have a 690 00:50:02.559 --> 00:50:07.760 thought ahead. You talked about your hooker Bacon trial murders. This trial. 691 00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:14.760 This trial also had a snappy name. They called it the nanny murder trial. 692 00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:20.639 Now, I'm always interested by the like name with which we refer to 693 00:50:21.199 --> 00:50:24.039 a horrific incident like this. Obviously, like you know, the OJ trial 694 00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:30.280 or whatever. Nanny murder trial is confusing to me. I first think a 695 00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:34.639 nanny has been murdered, right, Then I have to do the math that 696 00:50:34.719 --> 00:50:37.760 know a nanny did the murdering, right, And then I just don't even 697 00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:42.599 know if nanny is even the right way to describe this woman. It's just 698 00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:47.119 a very misleading, just like snappy headline kind of name. The fake nanny 699 00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:51.360 murder trials is what they should be, yeah, or the Nana Boo Boo 700 00:50:51.400 --> 00:50:54.519 trial. See now, where were you in twenty and sixteen? And this 701 00:50:54.599 --> 00:51:01.800 could have been called Boo boo trial. They had to it. Do you 702 00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:08.880 think they just overlooked things? There had to be some some hey, that 703 00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:15.519 girl is not right, Like yeah, I mean, I just here's the 704 00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:20.119 thing, and I agree with you. But after doing one hundred and sixty 705 00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:24.159 seven episodes of this Bragger, one of the things that stands out a lot 706 00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:30.079 is the person that it happens to or that like becomes the killer, is 707 00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:35.880 the killer they you didn't, you would never know. You would never know 708 00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:39.480 that that person would one day just snap and do all these terrible things. 709 00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:45.039 That's what makes this whole genre so fucking scary. So you know, if 710 00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:49.159 I had been this has been the very first episode of Sword and Scale I 711 00:51:49.159 --> 00:51:51.920 ever listened to, I would be thinking, yeah, there had to be 712 00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:55.559 other signs that she was a nutter before this went down. But frankly, 713 00:51:55.800 --> 00:52:00.840 I'm not surprised that nobody saw it coming, because I mean, what was 714 00:52:00.880 --> 00:52:06.000 really wild about this particular case is that all of this talk about the mental 715 00:52:06.039 --> 00:52:09.519 health all came up after like during the trial, right, you know, 716 00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:15.239 there wasn't talk about her being crazy in the lead up to this. It 717 00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:19.679 was only after a legal strategy needed to be formed, right, And now 718 00:52:19.719 --> 00:52:22.960 you get all these witnesses in these stories and all these things trying to like 719 00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:27.440 quote unquote fill in the blanks, but those blanks are not supposed to be 720 00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:31.199 filled in. With the mental illness angle. It's kind of single white female 721 00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:37.760 kind of though, right, except for the nanny wants to have the life 722 00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:42.639 of the mom. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Yeah, 723 00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:45.320 it's the same, the themes of like jealousy and wanting that to have that 724 00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:50.519 life, but in single white female it's noticeable, like that bitch of nuts. 725 00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:58.800 Yeah, but they point out specifically that Yosselin. Yosselin finished college, 726 00:52:59.159 --> 00:53:06.760 she had several old jobs for you know, major companies. But what you 727 00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:07.519 could still be crazy is what you're saying. Well, no, mo, 728 00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:12.039 I'm saying, I don't want to work for this family. I don't work 729 00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:15.679 in too many hours. You had jobs, you fucking have a college education, 730 00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:19.880 and you had jobs with major companies. Get the fuck out of their 731 00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:25.400 home, Yeah, go do something else. Yeah, Like that's like why 732 00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:29.920 are there? But mom and dad don't know. Mom and dad don't know 733 00:53:30.039 --> 00:53:35.159 that the lie that's been committed on to them by the by the family, 734 00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:39.320 So who knows why she's been let go, or if she was let go 735 00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:45.199 from these major, major jobs, maybe she was showing signs there of being 736 00:53:45.199 --> 00:53:50.280 a complete fucking lunatic. Yeah, just that just makes it all the more 737 00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:52.119 tragic, you know, And that's kind of what's talked about too. Is 738 00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:57.719 I wish we knew if, in fact she was telling her family job for 739 00:53:57.760 --> 00:54:00.159 twenty five hours a week. Yeah, I mean too. Actually I already 740 00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:04.519 have one of those. I do that on top of my other forty hour 741 00:54:04.599 --> 00:54:12.360 week up the family hearing about the visions of the black man visiting her at 742 00:54:12.440 --> 00:54:15.480 church and it's the sign of the devil, and the devil made me do 743 00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:21.280 it. All of that talk then becomes part of like this circus of it. 744 00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:24.000 It's not a black man, there's not a black guy. It's a 745 00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:28.920 guy that's just just a shadow. Yeah, I suppose. But the fact 746 00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:35.800 that they have to bring in a like cultural expert to to talk about it 747 00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:40.840 is all just another layer of this really sick fucking thing that Yoselin did. 748 00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:45.480 But it's just putting the whole family through this trial. You did it, 749 00:54:45.880 --> 00:54:51.400 right, But isn't that mostly isn't that most court cases like it's a show 750 00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:55.320 to try you do the show to try to get away with stuff. I 751 00:54:55.360 --> 00:54:59.360 hate to bring up that Kyle rittenhouse thing, but you're like his mom took 752 00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:01.159 him to a in different state with a gun, like you know, like 753 00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:04.559 what more do you need? And then then then there's a show. There's 754 00:55:04.599 --> 00:55:07.599 a show, there's a show on all these cases. It's sorry, it's 755 00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:14.960 just sort of the way that the American media and I'm intal justice similar works 756 00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:19.719 that way. Rum but I don't understand how they don't crush some of the 757 00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:23.000 show. What but with like A extra upsetting about this one though, is 758 00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:28.239 when you say that you're guilty of doing something or no, she said she 759 00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:31.559 was not guilty, so but but she also admitted to doing it, like 760 00:55:31.559 --> 00:55:36.760 she shouldn't have been allowed. I guess again, it gets so complicated. 761 00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:40.400 I was gonna say she shouldn't be allowed to say that I'm not guilty by 762 00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:45.079 reason of insanity. But that's not fair either, because there are instances where 763 00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:49.039 somebody does commit a crime and they're insane at the time that it happens. 764 00:55:49.280 --> 00:55:52.960 But it's just a great line. It's just very complicated. How many people 765 00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:59.000 get away with being uh mentally insane, you know, and you get away 766 00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:02.960 with a horrible when you have that, like, nobody very rarely works. 767 00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:08.280 Yeah, so you know, at some and at some point, I hate 768 00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:13.440 to say it, just because you're mentally ill doesn't mean you do things. 769 00:56:14.559 --> 00:56:16.599 I don't know why I hate to say that saying that. No, No, 770 00:56:16.679 --> 00:56:21.880 I hate to like, I don't want people being blamed because they're mentally 771 00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:24.239 ill, of course, I mean, that's that's it seems like such an 772 00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:30.440 excuse for the people that are not taking responsibility for what they did. Right, 773 00:56:30.559 --> 00:56:32.440 that's you just hit the nail on the head there, That's exactly right. 774 00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:37.599 It's the using it as a way to get out from the responsibility of 775 00:56:37.639 --> 00:56:40.440 your actions. That's what's so disturbing about it, because, I mean it's 776 00:56:40.440 --> 00:56:44.920 been said a bazillion times on a lot of true crime shows just because you 777 00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:49.159 have mental illness doesn't mean you're going to commit some horrible crime. Nobody is 778 00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:52.800 suggesting that. It also seems like they kind of went with that mental illness 779 00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:55.599 because they said, well, what happened in her life? Has she ever 780 00:56:55.639 --> 00:57:00.360 had any mental illness? And they said her sister died when she was young 781 00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:04.280 and they had to put her on antidepressants, And then they kind of ran 782 00:57:04.400 --> 00:57:08.159 with it from there. Yeah, which antidepressants doesn't mean you're mentally ill, 783 00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:13.239 it means you're depressed. Right, so yeah, and who you know, 784 00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:17.320 I'm pretty sure, you know, being that young, or anybody losing you 785 00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:21.800 know, somebody close from my spouse, a sister or brother, you know, 786 00:57:22.039 --> 00:57:23.480 is gonna be depressed. Nobody's gonna nobody's gonna go, oh well, 787 00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:27.840 let's go to Disneyland now. Yeah. So and if they are, they're 788 00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:30.519 gonna end up on the show, right, That's right. And by the 789 00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:35.840 way, I'm I was very relieved to hear that nobody on the jury bought 790 00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:43.280 the insanity defense, and I was shocked. Usually there's one personal well you 791 00:57:43.400 --> 00:57:45.199 know, well, I don't think they did not say it was unanimous. 792 00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:49.639 You know, maybe it was, but it was that specific word. I 793 00:57:49.639 --> 00:57:52.519 did not hear that. So who knows, we could be We could still 794 00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:55.360 be par for the course here and have one person she may she may have 795 00:57:55.920 --> 00:58:00.599 luck I was talking about a devil follower. Isn't that weird people that want 796 00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:05.679 to do jury duty. It is very strange. If you don't try to 797 00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:07.119 get out of jerry duty. I don't know if you should be allowed to 798 00:58:07.159 --> 00:58:12.159 be on the jury. I have the golden ticket now, and so do 799 00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:14.960 you. You work for a true crime show. You never had the new 800 00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:20.480 jury duty again? Let me shoot these guns there? Yeah, not in 801 00:58:20.480 --> 00:58:24.719 the courthouse. I have for several years now. When I get called in 802 00:58:24.719 --> 00:58:28.639 for jury duty, which happened a couple of times, they will ask you 803 00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:30.880 like, what do you do? What's your career? And I'm always like, 804 00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:34.280 I'm a true crime podcast producer. Part of my job is to analyze 805 00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:37.199 cases. Thank you for your time, mister Bondelier. You may leave. 806 00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:43.119 Oh yeah, this episode wasn't that sad after all because we just found that 807 00:58:43.159 --> 00:58:49.199 out first class. Oh my god, I had no idea use it. 808 00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:52.079 You're welcome. You're from Canada. You don't even get jury duty, do 809 00:58:52.119 --> 00:58:53.280 you? I get them in the mail, but I say I'm from Canada, 810 00:58:53.360 --> 00:58:59.159 even though even though I am becoming a citizen, I'm green cinted and 811 00:58:59.199 --> 00:59:02.800 I've not trying to become a citizen because of jury duty. I mean, 812 00:59:04.519 --> 00:59:07.480 nine times out of ten, you don't actually get put on a jury or 813 00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:09.679 anything. You just have to be there for the day, read a book, 814 00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:12.840 and then you're gonna go home. I don't I don't have that kind 815 00:59:12.840 --> 00:59:15.000 of time, but twenty five hours a week. I definitely the last time 816 00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:19.239 that happened to me. I got put into like a juror pool room where 817 00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:22.679 they spent like two days going through jury selection. It was actually for a 818 00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:27.119 murder trial. I swear it was did you write down like maybe we should 819 00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:30.039 cover this one? No? Now, it was like, if I remember 820 00:59:30.039 --> 00:59:32.239 correctly, it was like a gang murder kind of a thing. So it 821 00:59:32.280 --> 00:59:37.639 was I didn't really fit the sword in scale theme so much, but I 822 00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:40.239 totally played the card. And I also work for a show hosted by Mark 823 00:59:40.239 --> 00:59:45.840 Garigus, very famous defense attorney called a reasonable Doubt, and the attorney was 824 00:59:45.880 --> 00:59:49.440 like, I've worked with mister Garigus before. And the other attorney just saw 825 00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:53.480 that and was like, your excuse. It was great And if you don't 826 00:59:53.480 --> 00:59:57.800 mind, if you are listening to this show, I encourage you if you 827 00:59:57.800 --> 01:00:00.639 could call for jury duty, tell them listen to true crime podcasts, and 828 01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:06.320 if you text us on or send us a tweet that makes it even more 829 01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:08.119 Yeah, and just tell them listen. I spent a lot of my time 830 01:00:08.159 --> 01:00:13.239 analyzing cases. I don't believe I can be impartial. I would think if 831 01:00:13.280 --> 01:00:15.679 I was in a room with people, I would be trying to explain to 832 01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:21.119 them my logic and reasoning, and I analyze case one sixty seven and gave 833 01:00:21.199 --> 01:00:27.280 my opinion. Yes, right through this set of tweets and the date on 834 01:00:27.320 --> 01:00:30.159 it. There you go. You're welcome. You're welcome everybody. What a 835 01:00:30.159 --> 01:00:34.400 great way to start the new year. Huh. I don't know why I 836 01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:37.880 was hanging Happy Birthday, Happy New Years? Oh man? Hey, by 837 01:00:37.880 --> 01:00:40.679 the way, have you been to a birthday party since since the pandemic? 838 01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:46.400 I have outdoors very distance. Was there a cake? Uh? Yeah, 839 01:00:46.400 --> 01:00:51.559 I think there was no candles. No one's blowing. So I went out 840 01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:54.599 for dinner with some friends and they brought me a cake afterwards with a candle 841 01:00:54.639 --> 01:00:58.920 on it, Like, huh interesting. So I just pulled the candle out 842 01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:04.719 and turned out. Very smart of you like that. Nobody know there's a 843 01:01:04.719 --> 01:01:09.159 pat Oh it's Orange County. Well, let's wrap this episode up here, 844 01:01:09.679 --> 01:01:15.360 now that we're smiling and celebrating your now that we're giggling, yosselin life in 845 01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:17.960 prison, no possibility of parole. Good, thank god. She should just 846 01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:22.480 be she should really, they should just finish the job on the throat that's 847 01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:25.440 what I think, but it's not up to me. Unfortunately, we do 848 01:01:25.840 --> 01:01:32.920 hear a clip of Mike reading her quote unquote apology. I hated it, 849 01:01:34.119 --> 01:01:37.280 which very quickly. Oh you know, do we play because I just don't 850 01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:40.840 feels it. Seconds? Yeah, twenty seconds of it. Right. I'm 851 01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:46.119 very sorry for everything that happened. But I hope no one goes is this 852 01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:54.320 hers or Mike's. I hope that no one goes through what I have gone 853 01:01:54.320 --> 01:02:00.559 through. So many people wished me all the worst. My life is in 854 01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:05.159 the hands of God. I ask for a great deal of forgiveness from God, 855 01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:09.440 from Marina, from Kevin. I wish my family. I told my 856 01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:15.960 family I did not feel well. People are so mean me. Executio didn't 857 01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:21.920 even bring up the victims. It's just I mean we I feel like there's 858 01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:25.320 been a few different categories of apologies that we hear on this show. Most 859 01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:31.360 of them are insincere, but very rarely are they ones where they just flat 860 01:02:31.440 --> 01:02:37.480 out ignore the fact that anyone other than them is being victimized in the scenario. 861 01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:40.480 I hope nobody else is ever laid for work. Basically, what you 862 01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:45.519 said, she said, nothing about what you did, right and again. 863 01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:50.639 I'm it was good to hear that the jury didn't buy any of the bullshit. 864 01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:53.400 And like you said, the lawyer is up there. She kind of 865 01:02:53.480 --> 01:02:58.400 You kind of have to believe your client, not know how you do it. 866 01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:00.880 Yeah, it's tough when you're when you're out with garages the other day, 867 01:03:01.079 --> 01:03:05.440 ask the other day. So when you're with him again, ask him 868 01:03:06.079 --> 01:03:08.480 how he takes a if Kenny take a case that he doesn't believe them, 869 01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:12.719 how he does it? Well, if you look at his list of clients, 870 01:03:12.760 --> 01:03:16.920 I think you would agree problem a whole lot as soon as I said 871 01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:21.599 away, Hey, huh yeah, yeah, he makes a lot of money. 872 01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:22.880 It's a very very nice guy to me. I will say that if 873 01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:27.119 my membre accused of murder, he's gonna be my guy. Oh man, 874 01:03:27.199 --> 01:03:30.039 God, that's for sure. Don't get accused of murder. Because I like 875 01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:32.079 doing their show. I like doing it too. And hey, listener, 876 01:03:32.119 --> 01:03:36.639 if you like listening to it, please subscribe, Please tell a friend, 877 01:03:36.880 --> 01:03:39.599 give us a nice rating, give us a nice review, interact with us. 878 01:03:39.639 --> 01:03:43.480 Feel free to send us a tweet. Be nice though, and we're 879 01:03:43.480 --> 01:03:45.360 catching up. We're catching up. Oh yeah, shows, we're gonna be 880 01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:47.679 like neck and neck with the shows very soon, I think. So. 881 01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:51.519 I mean, we put out twice as many shows, let's be honest, 882 01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:53.960 and then, uh, you know, depending on the release schedule, maybe 883 01:03:53.960 --> 01:03:58.480 we won't be taking as many breaks. But we're gonna we're gonna catch right 884 01:03:58.639 --> 01:04:01.239 up. And I really enjoy when Mike comes in and discusses the cases with 885 01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:08.119 us because we get his feelings and knowledge that we won't ever get. And 886 01:04:08.159 --> 01:04:10.480 you guys get and get them too. So make sure you tell him Mike 887 01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:12.639 to come back on this. Yeah, we'd love to have him back on. 888 01:04:12.840 --> 01:04:15.119 Mike, come back and see us. Ducky, come on, Mike, 889 01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:19.280 come on, Ducky, come play with us. Mike forever and ever 890 01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:26.280 and ever shining reference for you. I gotta pee, all right, you 891 01:04:26.360 --> 01:04:29.199 set him a bit, both of you. All right, guys, thank 892 01:04:29.239 --> 01:04:32.280 you all for listening. We'll be back very seeing with another episode. Follow 893 01:04:32.320 --> 01:04:36.559 Ian on Twitter at sir Ian Bag. I'm on Twitter at Matt Fondelier. 894 01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:40.159 We also host other shows. I have a show called The Watercooler I do 895 01:04:40.239 --> 01:04:44.079 with my friends. Ian has a show several shows I got around the Bag. 896 01:04:44.239 --> 01:04:46.639 You can get that on YouTube, or you can get that on the 897 01:04:46.800 --> 01:04:51.440 wherever you get your podcast and listen to it. Three friends dropped by virtually, 898 01:04:51.480 --> 01:04:56.039 and they play a little game and one of them becomes my BFF by 899 01:04:56.079 --> 01:04:59.119 the end of it. The other has never heard from again. That was 900 01:04:59.360 --> 01:05:02.400 left down Nicold, Thanks you guys for listening. Happy New Year, New 901 01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:15.639 Year. Don't be a douchebag sort of scale. Reward is a production of 902 01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:19.000 Incongruity Media. If you enjoyed the show, leave us a five star rating 903 01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:24.800 and a glowing review. No criticism please, it hurts our feelings. Be 904 01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:27.840 sure to tell your friends about us, but not your family or co workers 905 01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:31.559 because I'll think you're weird. Okay, that's it until next time. Don't 906 01:05:31.559 --> 01:06:00.599 be a douchebag in them was ended.