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We're back with another edition of The
Federalist for radio Hour. I'm Emily Joshinsky,

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culture editor here at The Federalist.
As always, you can email the

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show at radio at the Federalist dot
com, follow us on Twitter at fdr

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LST. Make sure to subscribe wherever
you download your podcasts as well, and

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to the premium version of our website. We're actually coming up on the tenth

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anniversary of The Federalist. At colleague
reminded me today something to keep in mind.

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I'm joined today by my colleague,
Sam Mangold Lennett, staff editor at

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The Federalist, one of the newer
members of the team, who's here in

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like year nine of the tent,
the decade of the Federalist. That's what

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this has been, the decade of
the Federalists. Sam. I think the

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decade really reached its peak once I
came on. That's probably true. That's

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probably true. You've enlivened the staff
chat. Did you read The Federalist before

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you work for us? Yeah?
Yeah, To be honest, it was

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not to know butter up my bosses
or anything, but it was one of

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the few actual conservative publications I actually
read. They're not listening, so go

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fair enough. A lot of the
discourse online. Well, I mean,

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it's one of the few publications that
actually has the pulse on what people want

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to hear and what's actually going on, whereas a lot of places kind of

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come, what's the term caltail,
cow tail cowtowl? That's you're an editor.

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I don't know. It's it's dumb
jargon. I don't know it.

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A lot of publications, I think
cal tail count whatever it is, it's

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about kowtow. I reject the premise
A lot a lot of places will like

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pander to what they think people want
to hear, or to possibly what their

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donors want them to say. I
legitimately don't think now, I guess I

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am biased, but I don't think
we do that. I think it's always

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just been here's cutting through the noise, here's amplifying the actual truth, here's

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what you know. We always say
we speak truth into Washington, as opposed

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to just trying to in addition to
amplying the narrative here for other people.

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It's part of the benefit of us
having being spread throughout the country is that

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we actually get perspectives, and part
of one of the good things about having

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so many contributors. Is we actually
get perspectives that aren't just DC group think,

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and I think that with that comes
a lot of honesty as well.

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For instance, a lot of people
would be afraid to walk into the Capitol

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Hill Starbucks and order one of surely
the first Pumpkins by Slottes they've served all

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season. Not Sam. He went. He went for it. He got

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the whip cream, he got a
frozen it looked like a frappuccino, but

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it was in fact of Pumpkins by
s Latte, and he had no shame.

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It was my daily milkshake. I
needed the cloric intake that was fit

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for like five people. So yeah, I'm actually drinking of Pumpkins by Slatts.

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We speak as well as my first
of the season's it's a rainy summer

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day here in Washington, DC.
Social start of fall is the start of

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fall, and Sam, I wanted
to ask you, actually, this is

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your first year in DC, but
we're both Midwesterners, and just as we're

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about to turn the page on a
new season here, I actually wanted to

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ask what you miss most about summer
or fall in Cincinnati. Well, Cincinnati

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is a super Bowl, so the
weather kind of sucks year round, especially

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with the humidity. But so the
summer's in DC and Cincinnati have been basically

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the same. I think DC is
well. Live in a pretty hilly area

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of DC, so it's about to
say the hills aren't as bad, but

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walking to work, there's a lot
of hills, so you know, kind

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of equals out from my perspective.
But what I miss I think I'm gonna

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missing in the fall because like we
were talking earlier, it doesn't really the

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temperature doesn't really break until like late
September. I think I'm gonna miss like

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the crisp, like when you can
feel the air really turning in early late

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early to mid September, where it's
it actually is feeling like you're on the

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end of summer, about the fall, literally fall into fall. I don't

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know, I've always enjoyed the whimsy
of that. I'll respond to my own

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question, and what is what are
you going toout the season? Changing in

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from Wisconsin? You know, living
in the city is very strange because I

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grew up in the woods. I
don't know if I've ever gotten into this

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on the podcast before, but I
lived in the same house my parents still

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live in that house from when they
brought me home as a tiny little baby

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until I went off to college smack
in the middle of the city. My

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freshman dorm was about three blocks from
the White House. So I must have

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been a huge culture shock, very
strange. Yes, And actually I realized

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just this week is the twelve year
anniversary of when I moved to Washington.

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Yeah, twelve years anniversary, thank
you. The Obama era. And the

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city was certainly really bustling then and
becoming a lot trendier. And it's you

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know, obviously been dramatically affected by
COVID, and it's still not nearly the

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same as what it was. But
all that is to say, living in

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the city, you just get you're
less kind of inundated by the by nature,

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and that means, you know,
there are fewer trees, that sounds

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obvious, and in certain neighborhoods.
You have some very late leafy neighborhoods here

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in the district. But when you
grow up in the actual woods, like

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surrounded by trees, the smells are
so much more acute, and that means

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the seasons are more acute, and
so it's not that you know, you

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can tell the difference of course I
can tell the difference between winter and summer

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in DC, but in general,
you know, there's just less change in

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terms of the you know, beyond
the temperature. It's some of those things

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like the smells and the sites.
Our colleague Rebecca just sneeze, but that

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was an intern sneeze. We'll have
to put it on the office sneeze tracker.

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But yeah, it's just some of
those natural occurrences are a little bit

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less acute, and it makes the
seasons a little bit less special. I

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guess that's an interesting point. The
sensory overload is very apparent, at least

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for now it is. I'm still
I think it's my third month as a

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resident in DC, so it's still
very overwhelming at times, just how much

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is going on all the time.
But I never thought about that. Yeah,

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I miss it in summer the most
because I've never been like a huge

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summer lover. But I hate it. Summer's the worst season before. It's

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not great here especially, it's very
nice, and a lot of parts of

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the Midwest all the very sweaty in
some other parts. But it's uh,

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one thing that makes it really special, I think really is the smells of

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the fields and the trees and the
flowers, the noises. Yeah, and

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just sort of also having a beautiful
summer's night where you can, you know,

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cure crickets, Cicada's frogs, and
then you you kind of get the

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smells and in the city you get
very different smells in the summer, a

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lot of smells. It's a lot
of hot urine, just steaming. There's

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just constant dog urine. Yeah,
it's really hard to myself, but yeah,

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it's really gross. But anyway,
I was just thinking about that today

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because you were you were common on
the weather and I thought i'd ask you.

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And you know, one of the
reasons we wanted to do this podcast

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is because I think all summer we
didn't stop and focus on a major development

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and the right, which a was. It started with Sound of Freedom and

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then it went with Oliver Anthony as
the summer ended. So this is kind

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of book ended the summer at these
two events. Actually, so at USA

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today make that connection about how there's
this sort of conservative, alternative, alternative

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economy and entertainment that's that's starting to
grow. And of course, one small

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point of pride that I have is
that I was really the first major national

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publication to report on The Chosen.
And it wasn't because I was like just

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some like pression genius. It's because
well, someone brought it to me.

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And this was right as COVID was
starting, before anybody was really taking it

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seriously. I was looking at a
spreadsheet from the good folks behind The Chosen

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and they were showing me on the
spreadsheet where the film had been viewed,

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like with VPNs all over the not
the film, the series had been viewed

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all over the world, and at
the time they were like, people are

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in lockdown in China and they're watching
The Chosen and I saw that on their

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spreadsheet. Yeah, it really was. And what got me about that was

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the pass it on crowdfunding mechanism and
the single app for downloading it. And

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I think Sound of Freedom benefit from
the exact same sort of structure, and

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that's what allowed it to really explode
in theaters too, so because they were

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able to fundraise and word of mouth
kind of grew, and then it became

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clear to theaters that they should probably
host this movie. So it came in

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more and more theaters, and with
Oliver Anthony, who is of course the

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singer of Richmond, north of Richmond. It's actually his stage name is on

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its real name, it's his grandfather's
name. Interestingly enough, that a free

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press report that's very Wise's publication.
They say he actually didn't embrace that until

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a few months ago. All kinds
of sort of interesting developments the last few

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months of Oliver Anthony's life. He
says he very recently found his faith,

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very recently embraced his faith. And
that got started with a YouTube channel picking

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it up that covers up and coming
artists or maybe underappreciated artists. That's the

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West Virginian Radio one right radio WVY. They post it. Someone then puts

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that on Twitter and it just explodes. Samuel and I do think these two

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things are connected. It's basically saying, listen, the old gatekeepers are not

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the only people in charge anymore.
And I think it's important to say they're

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not the only people in charge because
they are still in charge, but they're

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not the only people in charge.
Right. Well, I've seen some cynical

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takes that the might indicate the gatekeepers
still are the ones kind of you know,

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manufacturing all of this. I think
it's all kind of you know,

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schizophrenia brainworm stuff, but that had
to come somewhere, Like I don't think

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it's I think Oliver Anthony thing is
very much organic because I think people were

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yearning for content like this that was
just heartfelt. But if something explodes that

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immensely in popularity, that the take
is that someone had to help this happen.

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This guy just can't come from nowhere
using mediocre equipment. Someone has to

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be backing him. But I think
overwhelming that the narrative has kind of fallen

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apart because he himself has taken to
YouTube in particular to kind of clear up

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a lot of these conspiracies. He
seems like a pretty austere and authentic guy.

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So he says he's turned down an
eight million dollar record deal, which

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is insane, but you know that
speaks to his integrity. Yeah, he's

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it seems believable enough that people to
the tune of eight I mean, if

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anything, eight million dollars might be
underappreciating what he's been able to do.

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And I connected that to the Weather
conversation weirdly enough, because he's very much

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somebody who's speaking to the kind of
Charles Murray phenomenon, not to the politics.

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And one of the reasons we wanted
to talk about. And when I

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say Charles Murray, I mean coming
apart this idea of the bigger divide in

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the country being cultural than it is
political, something we talk about a lot

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here, and it just you know, he's the video that went so viral.

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He's out in the sort of lush
summer backdrop, you know, with

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his dogs running around in the background, and just a guy, just a

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dude, and it feels really resonant. I think it's he's using a resonant

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guitar actually in the song, but
it feels really resonant for people who live

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in places that look just like that. And it reminded me actually of that

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because you can kind of as I'm
as I was watching it, I was

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like, I can smell this,
Like it smells like fresh trees, it

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smells like summer, and it's really
really beautiful, despite the fact that he's

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not one of the Richmond North of
Richmond, and you know, people who

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live here in the DC are so
impoverished in so many ways despite being so

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rich. They don't have a backtrap
like that, they don't have old trucks

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and places where their dogs can kind
of run free, but they don't realize

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it that way. And yeah,
I think gradually we're starting to kind of

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come to terms with that. But
Tam, we were talking in the office

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about how the Richmond North of Richmond
going super supervival to the point where it's

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being mentioned at the Republican debate that
happened recently where when Martha McCollum starts the

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debate, the first question she asks
they play a video. She says,

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quote like why is this touch it? Why is the song touching a nerve

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with so many people around the country, And it is like, that's why

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I think eight million dollars might be
underestimating the world. That might be like

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lowballing Oliver Anthony for a record deal
because I've never seen anything like this.

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I mean, the sheer ad revenue
on the video alone. Probably gross is

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I'm not nearly enough, but probably
gross is a decent sum. If he

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keeps turning out content like that,
he could just be fully independent. It's

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insane to be filmed by someone else. Radio WV, so Radio WV came

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down to Oliver Anthony. According to
The Free Press, their interview with Anthony,

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they Radio WV comes down to him
in farm Ville, Virginia. He

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wasn't finished with Richmond North of Richmond, but he says, you gotta cut

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this track. Radio w V says, So he finishes Richmond North of Richmond,

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puts it on and everything sort of
starts snowballing from there. But the

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guy wasn't even done with this song. It's absolutely unheard of. I mean,

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like people will point to Justin Bieber
a Little nas Sex and when Old

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Town Road came out, that was
incredible too, that it was just something

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some dude had uploaded to SoundCloud that
became one of the top songs of the

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year, if not the top song
of that year, and launched this like

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extremely powerful music career for Little nas
Sex. World changing definitely for the worst,

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but world changed nonetheless. And for
Oliver Anthony, he goes from just

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a track cut for a YouTube video
to the top Billboard artist of the summer

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potentially who could be the top Billboard
artists of the year if things keep going

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on like this. But either way, I mean to rock it to the

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point where you don't even have a
record out, you're just a YouTube artist

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and just explodes like that. It's
just one of the craziest things I've ever

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seen. I mean, his music
keeps having the same success like the iTunes

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starts, he keeps climbing up them
with each release YouTube similar every video,

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every music vide he releases has millions
of us. People love his stuff.

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Like you said, it resonates deeply
well. And this is what we were

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talking about in the office. It
was really like getting under my skin.

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There is now this kind of it's
happening both on the left and the right,

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because Anthony came out and said,
you know, I'm really annoyed by

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my song being used by politicians for
political purposes, being claimed by any side,

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and he said, if anything,
that song's more about the right than

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about the left. And some conservatives
are now being like, yeah, like

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these other conservatives just got owned by
Oliver Anthony, some on the left or

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like yeah, conservatives just got owned
Anthony. But to that, I just

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say, if you listen to that
song and didn't think that it was about

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both the right and the left,
and if not more about the right than

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the left, then what are you
thinking. You're crazy? I mean,

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the whole point of asking a Republican
debate, by the way, is so

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that Republican politicians have to confront the
question of why that song is resonating given

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their policies for the past thirty years. He talks Anthony and this interview talks

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particularly about or actually I think it
was a video he posted warmongering policies of

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conservative politicians over the last thirty years. I think he says, and it's

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absolutely true. And if you heard
that song and said, wow, what

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a win for Republicans, the brainworms
are feasting every day in your head.

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Hey, y'all, this is Sarah
Carter, investigative columnist and host of The

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code Sarah. And I think like
you said, it is a uniparty.

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It's a consolidation of just special not
special interests necessarily. But both both parties

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coalesced that sold out the country.
But the right, the Republicans at least

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give lip service to people like Oliver
Anthony. They say we don't hate you,

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and then they turn around to do
things that screw them over entirely.

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So of course it's going to be
more about the right, because the rights

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sought him out, whereas the left
will just you know, knife him in

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the back and tell a smile while
they're doing it, or rather the left

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will just tell you they hate you. The right will do things that spite

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you but tell you that it's for
your benefit. Well, I mean,

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yeah, and he's he's in the
song talking about it's clearly about both the

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lesson, right, he talks about
welfare, he talks about food, he

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talks about obesity, he talks about
I mean, all of these things around

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and around and around that, like
if you're a portioning blame. It's clearly

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in both directions, but so much
of it rests on the squarely on the

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shoulders of Republican politicians, people who
promise to fix things but then don't fix

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them once they actually get power to
fix them. Well, and he talks

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about working, what does he say, like a bullshit job? Yeah,

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something like that over ten hours bullshit? Yeah right. And you know why

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does Tom Cotton have a minimum wage
bill on the floor of the Senate.

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Why is he introduced that? Well, because even some Republicans are recognizing that

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inflation is completely out of control and
that there is room like that, there

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actually is room for policies that.
Like I'm not a huge fan, I

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actually think you can debate the benefits
of minimum wage laws, state based,

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locality based for you know, workers. I think sometimes those those are clearly

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problematic policies. But I think the
cotton Bill is like a fifteen dollars base

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federally, and I mean at this
point, fifteen dollars an hour for a

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minimum wage. Yeah, I'm not
going to argue too hard against that.

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I'm really not. Yeah, I
mean it's I mean, even with that,

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it's probably so going to be not
enough to outpace inflation or help people

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stay afloat that much. But I
think this is kind of where like the

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whole populism argument really thrives, where
there's a lot of specifically economic issues that

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some of the left and some of
the right a line on that can actually

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alleviate a lot of pain, but
nobody wants to actually have that conversation because

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of the left duality. Yeah,
I mean, I know Anthony has worked

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in North Carolina, and because he's
from southern Virginia and North Carolina for instance,

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speaking of Republicans has been hit really
hard, Like their furniture industry in

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particular has been hit really really hard
by some trade policies, and like there

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are a lot of jobs that are
gone because of that. And libertarians will

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look at these analyzes and some like
never Trump type conservators will look at these

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analyzes and be like, well,
but like in the aggregate, these things

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were really good, and it's like
maybe, yeah, So first of all,

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it's like maybe. Secondly, it's
like, okay, fine, but

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what did we do for people that
are lost in the transition? What did

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we do for people who completely squeeze. What we did was let their communities

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decay and die without any attention given
to them whatsoever. And they're the ones

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that are now voting for Donald Trump
because you did nothing for them. You

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have continued to prop up a corrupt
media that is lying to them. And

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some of you, by the way, I think they're all bigots for having

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different opinions from you, and for
talking differently, watching different stuff, eating

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different food, not going to college. And some people, by the way,

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did go to college and have you
know, and graduate within an average

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of tens of thousands of dollars,
like some thirty thousand dollars in student loan

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debt, probably more than that by
now, probably closer to forty thousand dollars

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or student loan debt. And they
aren't able to find jobs that are going

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to do what they're promised that that
would be this ticket to the middle class,

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right. And I think there's also
a persistent cultural issue where people don't

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really know how to perceive am America's
nationhood anymore. It's no longer like we

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the people. It's treated just as
an economic zone, where it's just balancing

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numbers on a spreadsheets on spreadsheets are
as opposed to actually advancing the common good

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of the people, Like, how
are you supposed to advance economic policies that

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help people flourish if there's no understanding
of what flourishing is. If it's just

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the GDP went up by this percent
this year and down this quarter. Everything

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is just thought of in this balancing
act logic. I read a really interesting

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study last year, and I'm not
gonna like cite it specifically because I'm paraphrasing

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it and I'm not like a social
scientist obviously, but it was on It

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was a like cross survey of the
research on indigenous happiness, and one of

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the interesting things they found is that
people are happy people's Indigenous people's happiness tends

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to be high so long as they
have they're not lonely, and they have

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health, so like they feel safe
in their health condition and that they're not

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like lonely. They have some social
some social aspect, and that's really interesting

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to me because from the left perspective, they have this excessive materialism, right

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that like everybody needs the government to
give them X, Y and Z,

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when in fact you can understand sort
of from the perspective of actual happiness or

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fulfillment, how it's much easier once
you hit that baseline of like, yes,

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I have security, like I'm not, you know, currently dying,

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Like I'm not currently dying. I'm
not worried about dying in the future,

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and i feel physically good. I
feel physically well, and I'm surrounded by

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other people, I have, you
know, social life. You can see

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where as long as you meet that
baseline, general happiness is a sort of

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easier to obtain. Yeah, And
I think that's not to bring everything I

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say back to pulling alone rubber Puttnam's
thing, but I think that's really you

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know, one of the biggest issues
that is highlighted in all of Anthony's song

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is that the people that really resonate
with that song, and this is also

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reflected in Tim Carney's Alienat of America, is that the people who would resonate

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with that the people who largely became
Trump's support that pushed them over in twenty

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00:22:49,079 --> 00:22:53,319
sixteen, don't have that. There
are no shared institutions anymore. They don't

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have anywhere to well. I mean
they do have, you know, church,

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but that's dwindling in attendance. But
they don't have you know, is

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the Rotary Club, Is that the
s or Night's a Columbus or the moose

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00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:08,960
Loulenge or whatever you want to organization
bowling leagues bowling alone. There's no shared

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institutions for people to have that sense
of community. And you know, with

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our declining health rates and backsliding life
and life expectancy, it makes sense that

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people are going to just have this
great lamentation about the state of America.

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Well and think about the Anthony song. There's like health in it. Three

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pounds, yeah, opioids, all
of this comes into play. And when

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you think about it, actually health
and this is I was when I was

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00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:41,640
figuring out what to talk about at
the National Conservatism Conference last year. It

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actually I was in a similar place
because it was a similar time of year

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too when we were thinking to when
the song came out and everything He's when

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00:23:49,319 --> 00:23:53,960
everything that he's thinking about because I
was just thinking to myself, this political

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00:23:55,039 --> 00:24:00,480
discussion is so especially on the right, where there's this little like hog of

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00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:03,119
people and I'm looking at you,
Sam, who are very online right just

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00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:08,519
terminally online. It's just so and
again like there's we'll get to this and

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00:24:08,559 --> 00:24:11,799
then I'll put a pin in this
because I think it's a lesson for Ronda

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00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:14,440
Santis too, But like there's a
good way to be online and a bad

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00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,519
way to be online, and it's
really hard to pull off both, but

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or to pull off the good way
and not be sucked into the bad way.

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And I think you kind of have
to take some bad with the good.

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But it is just disgusting to me
watching these conversations play out and seeing

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you know, the panels at conferences, even one like at like Sepack or

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whatever it is. And I was
trying to think, like, how do

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I not do that? And the
question that kept coming to my head was

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what can the Republican Party do?
What can the conservative movement do to positively

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affect the lives of everyday Americans,
the immediate lives of everyday Americans, so

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the daily life, Like what can
the Republican Party do that is going to

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make the daily life at the everyday
American better. And when you think about

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what's hurting people right now, they
don't need to be multi multi millionaires.

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People are really unhealthy and they're really
unhappy and having all of these like abstract

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00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:19,519
conversations about freedom and liberty and like, fine, they're important, but it

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00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:26,000
is like the big debate about the
realignment cannot be that abstracted. It has

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00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:30,440
to be translated quickly into practical things, and healthcare and food are two of

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00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:34,920
those areas where it needs to translate
into Republican policies and positions in the conservative

359
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,880
movement really really quickly, because people
like healthcare. If you look at survey

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00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,640
after survey, it comes up as
one of voters like top concerns, and

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00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,079
the only people talking about it are
Democrats. It thought has lost my train

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00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,880
of thought, damn it. I
would take the pin out of the online

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00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,920
discourse until I remember what I was
thinking of. You want to be in

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00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,920
the discourse of the discourse. You
don't want to define you like your entire

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00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:03,240
or worldview, but you want to
dabble one it sometimes, yeah, because

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it helps you keep informed with what
the kids are talking about. Well,

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but that's so that I was gonna
say about De Santas is that on the

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00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:14,960
one hand, you know, you
have people that are very in touch with

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the I don't know, the populist
sentiments that are helpfully being litigated on social

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media because it doesn't social media doesn't
have the same constraints of traditional media,

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and you know, people are able
to, you know, have these conversations

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00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,960
and you know they're they're much closer
to the sort of truth than you know,

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what you might hear at a think
tank panel or whatever, what you

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might see on the accounts of think
tanks. At the same time, though,

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00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:51,240
those circles and social media, you'll
have to balance the fact that those

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00:26:51,319 --> 00:26:53,960
circles are also echo chambers, right, So you have to recognize that both

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00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,440
of these things are echo chambers,
and you can take some stuff from the

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00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,799
like abstract, you know, political
operative world, and you can take some

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00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,400
stuff from the populist social media world, but without sort of treating one or

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00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,519
the other like it's you know,
the godsend and I feel like the or

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00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,599
like it's the proper arena, the
righteous cause, and I feel like Ron

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00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,720
de Santis got his team, not
him personally. You know, clearly it

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00:27:21,759 --> 00:27:26,279
was people working on his communications and
digital staff got sucked into that world without

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00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,160
saying, you know, on the
one hand, it was good, it

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00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,000
was cutting edge. They were sort
of talking about his economic policy, his

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00:27:33,079 --> 00:27:37,960
economic plan for instance that he rolled
out in August. Great, he didn't

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00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,680
communicate Kate that in any helpful or
like he did a traditional campaign event in

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00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:48,079
New Hampshire at like on like a
factory floor. Why do we keep forgetting

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00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:49,519
on me to say what is going
on today? I think it's because I'm

390
00:27:49,559 --> 00:27:56,640
talking too much, so you're just
shoot, well, I think something that

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00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,240
highlight also with you know how everything
is just so online now, it is

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00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:04,759
that the median like a huge portion
of Republican voters just simply aren't online or

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00:28:04,799 --> 00:28:07,240
if they're absolutely, if they are
online, they don't care enough to like

394
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:11,440
participate in the discourse. They don't
care what this guy with a you know,

395
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:18,039
Plato marble bus profile pictures opining about
Absolutely it's so too is credit.

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00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,880
I don't fault to Santists for like
doing traditional events, because the average Republican

397
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,720
voter probably goes to those more than
they engage in Twitter beefs, right,

398
00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:30,680
But I don't know, it's it's
I don't really know. Obviously, I'm

399
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,640
not a presidential campaign advisor. I
don't know how you keep a foot in

400
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,400
both worlds aside from having you know, staff who are supposed to guide you

401
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:37,920
through that. But clearly something went
awry. Well yeah, here's like when

402
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:44,279
you're putting pictures of Patrick Bateman interspersed
with pictures of your presidential candidate. So

403
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:49,279
pictures of this fictional serial killer psychopath
interperse with pictures of your presidential candidate,

404
00:28:49,759 --> 00:28:53,160
you need to check yourself and realize
that you are way, way, way

405
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:59,160
too far gone to have a hand
in the communications strategy of a presidential campaign,

406
00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:03,640
because that is not cute, it's
not gonna work, and nobody understands

407
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,039
what you're doing outside of maybe a
few dozen people on Twitter, maybe a

408
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,400
few dozen people on Twitter who you
can't even tell whether they're ironically interested or

409
00:29:11,559 --> 00:29:17,000
just interested. So the iron you
poisoning is like, actually very serious.

410
00:29:17,119 --> 00:29:22,240
To talk about a health condition you've
had mercury poisoning, Try irony poison thing.

411
00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:25,039
It will make you miserable for years. It is far more dangerous.

412
00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:29,240
I think there's also something to the
effect where and this is going to get

413
00:29:29,359 --> 00:29:33,000
really online, real fast. I
apologize with the meme magic, so to

414
00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:38,440
speak, that was so that surrounded
the Trump sphere in twenty sixteen and is

415
00:29:38,599 --> 00:29:42,759
largely is resurgent now, certainly after
the indictment and the mug shot. But

416
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:48,759
that energy excited people so much for
Donald Trump, at least amongst youth voters,

417
00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:52,279
that that was you know, something
they really rallied behind. Well,

418
00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:53,440
it's not like he won the youth
vote, no, no, no,

419
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:59,440
but like it really helped move discourse
in a we pokemon went to the polls.

420
00:29:59,599 --> 00:30:02,119
Yeah, it's like that was one
of the few times the right was

421
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,400
actually better at being digital than the
left was. But you know, since

422
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,960
then, the big tech and deep
state up weaponize themselves very much more effectively

423
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,920
against the right, And I think
that has something to do with it.

424
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,519
I think that if you tap into
these lines of discourse in effective ways,

425
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,519
you do pose a very powerful threat
to establish power. Yeah. Actually,

426
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,160
this is this is going to make
me sound a little bit too online.

427
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,799
But Bron's age pervert was on red
Scare recently and made a really interesting point.

428
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,200
As somebody who sort of trafficked on
the forums of about a decade ago.

429
00:30:32,279 --> 00:30:33,880
He kept siting twenty tens, twenty
eleven, so that is not a

430
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:40,359
world that I'm familiar with. But
he mentioned, actually the the censorship on

431
00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:47,680
social platforms has really affected the conversation
that he was a part of then,

432
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:52,599
Like it actually seriously did change their
ability to communicate, like certain people's ability

433
00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:56,720
to communicate and interest in communicating.
And I can kind of see that.

434
00:30:56,839 --> 00:31:00,400
I think Reddit was very, very, very different, you know, more

435
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,759
than ten years ago than it is
now. I think there's also a good

436
00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:07,519
degree of I mean, obviously everyone
knows about self censorship censorship now because nobody

437
00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:10,880
wants to get canceled or fired from
their job for having a wrong opinion.

438
00:31:11,319 --> 00:31:15,839
But along with the digital censorship from
the institutions comes people buying into this group

439
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,440
think that they think it's better to
self censor than risking their account band permanently

440
00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:23,519
because that account gives them access to
one of the few institutions they actually have.

441
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:26,920
When you go online, you actually
go to someplace, at least in

442
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,920
your brain, you're transported to there
in that sense of community. So if

443
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,319
you don't self censor, you're gonna
get exiled from it. The actually,

444
00:31:34,359 --> 00:31:37,920
the Oliver Anthony thing kind of reminds
me of something. I think it was

445
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:41,880
Jesse Kelly who said, like,
conservatives all they have is cheering for a

446
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,640
mug shot talking about Trump's mug shot, like the left is cheering for the

447
00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:49,400
actual arrest, and conservators are like, we got a really good mug shot

448
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,200
out of it. That's another issue. Well, it's funny because it's like,

449
00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:56,519
I actually think the mug shot is
very, very powerful in ways the

450
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,759
left may not have anticipated. That's
not to say it's all just fine and

451
00:32:00,839 --> 00:32:06,119
dandy, but I do think it's
probably very powerful in ways they didn't expect.

452
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:08,880
On the other hand, it's like, yes, so let me get

453
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:15,720
this straight. Conservatives are cheering for
a song that is gutting the Republican Party

454
00:32:15,799 --> 00:32:22,240
in political casts, and a mug
shot that means their preferred candidate is up

455
00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:29,319
by some forty points right now could
be imprisoned for political reasons. That's a

456
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,160
low bar. That bar is so
low you could not limbo it, especially

457
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,039
not you, because you're like seven
feet tall, but a child couldn't get

458
00:32:36,119 --> 00:32:38,680
under that limbo bar. But I
think those are kind of the same phenomenon,

459
00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:43,880
though, where Oliver Anthony is limiting
the complete not the complete decay,

460
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,240
but the thorough decay of America as
a nation. And Republicans are celebrating that

461
00:32:47,319 --> 00:32:52,759
their guy is being indicted and very
likely about to be convicted. I think

462
00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:55,720
that is part of the same phenomenon
in which people are aware of the fact

463
00:32:55,799 --> 00:33:01,160
that the Republic is fraying or rapidly. Everyone's aware. Everyone is very viscerally

464
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,160
aware, at least if they have
have a brain cell, they're viscerally aware

465
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,839
of the fact that our culture is
bottomed out and that our institutions thoroughly exist

466
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:15,279
just to advance this one ideological thing
militantly. I think those overlapped perfectly.

467
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:20,079
Yeah, and it's just like when
there were I don't know how much of

468
00:33:20,119 --> 00:33:23,680
this actually happened, but any conservative, that's sort of like owning the Oliver

469
00:33:23,759 --> 00:33:28,440
Anthony's song and saying like, take
this, you know this is like this

470
00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:32,799
guy gets it. This is a
beautiful expression of you know, average,

471
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,720
the sentiment of the average American who
doesn't have a voice in Washington, DC.

472
00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:42,039
I mean, I'm not saying you
have to be a sort of populist

473
00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:49,839
economic conservative, because people like our
lovely colleague David Harsani have perfectly reasonable arguments

474
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:55,839
about why his U the office liberal? Yes, why the why? You

475
00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:01,200
know, his preferred sort of policy
prescriptions will work just as well, if

476
00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:06,279
not better, So it's entirely reasonable. But it's like, okay, I

477
00:34:06,319 --> 00:34:12,519
mean, what are you doing to
make this guy not want to lament the

478
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:16,760
state of the wealthiest country that has
basically ever like that existed at this scale

479
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,480
and the scope of human history?
What kind of the ton of tether back

480
00:34:21,519 --> 00:34:25,400
to like the indigenous people thing you're
referenced, it shows that, you know,

481
00:34:27,119 --> 00:34:31,800
Americans are kind of the Americans are
becoming disenfranchised in their own nation.

482
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:37,920
Despite being incredibly wealthy, they are
utterly disenfranchised by the economic well, I

483
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,920
mean, the America as a concept
is incredibly wealthy, but the people are

484
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:46,920
not able to participate in that wealth
redistribution. To use a scary term so

485
00:34:47,079 --> 00:34:52,760
to speak, the people actively cannot
like you, like we talked about earlier,

486
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,360
cannot keep up with inflation. Their
savings are gone. Most of them

487
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,440
probably don't even have savings at this
point. Student loans are eating people away,

488
00:34:59,039 --> 00:35:00,599
medical bills are reading peo. Why, there's just an existential dread.

489
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:07,320
People just can't really exist without pain
anymore. And that goes in different ways.

490
00:35:07,519 --> 00:35:12,679
Some people can easily exist in this
country without economic pain, there's no

491
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,400
question about it, and some of
the Richmond Richmonds, well, but some

492
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,800
people don't take advantage of that,
you know, and I understand that that's

493
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,599
true. I mean, there are
all kinds of different ways that you can

494
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,159
enjoy upward mobility in this country,
and there are people who, for various

495
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,960
reasons, just don't want to do
what it takes to experience that. Maybe

496
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,400
though, it's because they don't want
to move out of their beloved small hometown.

497
00:35:37,079 --> 00:35:43,519
Maybe it's because they got hooked on
opioids. Maybe it's you know,

498
00:35:43,639 --> 00:35:47,079
because they have a truly incredible amount
of student loan debt that makes them nihilistic.

499
00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:51,119
You know, I'm never going to
dig out of this hole, so

500
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:54,480
I might as well. I mean, credit card delinquencies are spiking, Zilo.

501
00:35:54,719 --> 00:36:00,840
I saw this unusual whales one percent
down payments. They're offering a program

502
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:07,360
come mewnership with one percent down payments, is like incredible. I believe car

503
00:36:07,519 --> 00:36:13,880
payment delinquencies are spiking as well,
which is another just really exciting piece of

504
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,599
data. And at the same time, though, if you are one of

505
00:36:16,639 --> 00:36:22,519
the many people and this gets to
an exchange Mike Pence had with the Vacoramaswami

506
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:25,039
in the Republican debate, one of
the two I think helpful exchanges, or

507
00:36:25,079 --> 00:36:29,519
one of the few helpful exchanges,
because that debate was in some ways an

508
00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:32,960
exercise in futility when the forty point
leader is not in the room. So

509
00:36:34,119 --> 00:36:37,920
like certain interject it is entirely circumvented. The opening question about Richmond North Richmond,

510
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:43,119
they just didn't they try to acknowledge
it with here's how I'll amnage a

511
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,239
regulatory reform, and just totally avoid
the actual ethos of the question. Oliver

512
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:52,639
Anthony won't need a license to get
on YouTube and my administration, the Nicki

513
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:59,960
Haley administration. No, actually that's
funny, But I liked run to Saints

514
00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:02,840
his answer because he looked right into
the camera and said, first, America

515
00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:07,440
is in decline, and if you
cannot accept that premise, you do not

516
00:37:07,519 --> 00:37:12,320
belong on that stage. Because what
Anthony is singing to is actually the same

517
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,679
thing that uh, you know,
a wealthy person looking at the fact that

518
00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:22,239
they can't find a school for the
child that is not teaching gender ideology or

519
00:37:22,559 --> 00:37:29,239
racism, was thinking to no,
I didn't mean that. I meant like,

520
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:34,519
actually, if you're a wealthy sort
of centrist and you're looking around and

521
00:37:34,639 --> 00:37:37,719
you're like, wow, this school
was shut down. My kids having learning

522
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:43,880
problems, and I can't find a
single place that's reasonably rice at all or

523
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:49,280
in the neighborhood that I can send
my kid to without them learning gender ideology,

524
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,719
crazy stuff and racism. Like,
I can't find it. And if

525
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,760
you're looking around, you'll probably resonate
with America's in decline in the same way

526
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,079
that an Oliver Anthony would. But
on that note, I was going to

527
00:38:00,159 --> 00:38:05,119
say, actually, one of the
more talent exchanges was between Vivek Ramaswami and

528
00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:07,719
Mike Pence when Mike Pence said,
basically, you know, the American people

529
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:13,559
are doing great, they just need
a government. And I found that fascinating.

530
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,800
It was so bad, And Vivec
had a good response for all of

531
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,199
his flaws, but he had a
pretty good response to that one. And

532
00:38:21,519 --> 00:38:24,400
and actually, there are a lot
of people for whom America is really great

533
00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:29,360
right now. There it is foolish
to deny that. In fact, the

534
00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:32,559
problem the problem as Sam is,
we're in the same room, So Sam

535
00:38:32,679 --> 00:38:39,159
is like physically ready to disagree.
Even those people in some sense are becoming

536
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:44,000
miserable because of the effective social media
I would say in technology. You know,

537
00:38:44,079 --> 00:38:49,840
so obesity is more concentrated among people
who are poorer. So as you

538
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,920
go down the income scale, obesity
goes up. Yes, it's true,

539
00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:55,519
but it's still pretty common among people
who are wealthy, and that will make

540
00:38:55,559 --> 00:39:00,239
you miserable. There is there.
There's still a lot of problems with anxiety

541
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,800
and depression among people who have lots
of money, increasing problems with all of

542
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,880
that, and so it's not as
though we're all just super happy. But

543
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:12,280
that is to say, you still
can be. And if you are,

544
00:39:12,679 --> 00:39:17,599
you know, a wealthy suburb of
let's say Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Washington,

545
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:23,199
DC, there are people that are
doing okay and material conditions so long as

546
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:28,119
you can mentally balance those material conditions
in a way that makes you feel fulfilled,

547
00:39:28,159 --> 00:39:30,880
which is harder and harder than ever. But if you're doing it,

548
00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:35,280
if you have a family, if
you're doing the thing, and you still

549
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,599
can in certain places of the country, if that's all that you know,

550
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:44,639
you're you're kind of interfacing with as
a presidential Canada, that's mostly who you're

551
00:39:44,679 --> 00:39:47,760
interfacing with and thinking about, are
those suburban moms who just really want you

552
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:52,800
to u you know, take down
the temperature people who voted for Biden's return

553
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:58,679
to normalcy. Then you're missing you're
missing out in the olive Anthony's right,

554
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:00,480
so he took the win out of
my sales. Because I was getting ready

555
00:40:00,639 --> 00:40:05,599
very strongly disagree, which you made
a good point, I will say that

556
00:40:05,679 --> 00:40:13,000
I think true many such cases.
I think that I mean, clearly all

557
00:40:13,039 --> 00:40:16,400
of Anthony isn't lamenting you know,
the upper middle class in the Midwest.

558
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:22,760
But that's also such a small portion
of people in the country. Yeah,

559
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:30,239
that's probably a couple dozen million.
But the issue isn't the I'm trying to

560
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:37,079
think of how to phrase without sounding
two two online, it's it's the professional

561
00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:40,000
managerial class. It's the people who
actually run the institutions, the people who

562
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:46,119
are actively extracting nationhood and wealth from
people. Yes, yes, exactly,

563
00:40:46,199 --> 00:40:51,719
Podad. There's people like that that
I'm not going to say that are the

564
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,360
enemy of the country, of the
enemy of the American people, but kind

565
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,199
of are the enemy of the country
and the American people. The people who

566
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:02,840
like actively erode any sense of anything
that's tethering people together. There's the shared

567
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:07,400
stake in the economy, of the
shared benefits of the economy, the shared

568
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:12,400
cultural heritage. It's the cynical elites
that all I think all of Anthony is

569
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,920
Lamenting, that increasingly come to define
the nation as well as opposed to an

570
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,079
addition to running it. Look at
the book banning question, for instance.

571
00:41:22,519 --> 00:41:25,679
That's a great example that if you're
a parent who says I don't want gender

572
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,599
queer and it actually even even as
somebody who works in the space and is

573
00:41:30,679 --> 00:41:34,440
like a Christian conservative, sometimes I
look at those books and I'll see a

574
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,320
new one that's not genderqueer. This
one I referenced most often because pen America

575
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,679
says it's the top target of bands. Quote mans, how often do you

576
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:45,880
find these new books? And for
fun or for work? It's the utility

577
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,679
here. It's an entirely fair question. But I was reading a news story

578
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:52,760
today and they referenced one of these
books like banned books that I hadn't seen

579
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,440
before. I was reading through it
and I was like, oh my gosh,

580
00:41:55,599 --> 00:42:00,960
this wasn't a children's section and it
was It was just like shocking to

581
00:42:00,159 --> 00:42:04,079
me that it was in a children's
section, and this is held up as

582
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:07,840
that positive by are the people who
run the institutions that run the country when

583
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:09,679
it's worse than that. And that's
why I was getting to that. If

584
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:15,199
you are someone who's like, hey, no, like one of the many

585
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:20,280
Muslim parents in Dearborn or other parts
of the country, that is just like,

586
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,360
let's not do this. This is
we can all agree, right,

587
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,480
Like they're looking around, like,
right, we're all on the same page,

588
00:42:25,519 --> 00:42:29,599
and the teacher's Union turns around and
says, oh, no, you're

589
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:32,039
a biggot. It's not just like, oh, here's a reasonable disagreement among

590
00:42:32,119 --> 00:42:37,199
people in the same community. It's
literally, you're a biggot. So it's

591
00:42:37,199 --> 00:42:39,960
not just that they're saying these books
are amazing and important. They're saying,

592
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:45,119
if you disagree with me, you
weren't necessarily a biggot. You were committing

593
00:42:45,159 --> 00:42:46,639
an act of violence. You're a
threat to my existence, etcetera, etcetera.

594
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:52,159
So these sorts of feelings of decline
are not just relegated to the working

595
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:57,239
class. They're widespread. I mean
they should be widespread. And if you're

596
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,480
you know, Mike Pence, and
that isn't informing the way you talk about

597
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:06,360
the mood of the people. Then
again, like you're really missing out on

598
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,079
something because this is touching absolutely everyone. And the thing that came to mind

599
00:43:09,159 --> 00:43:12,239
for some reason, the weird thing
that came to mind. I think I

600
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,719
mentioned this on a podcast with Budford
when Mike Penn said that was did you

601
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,519
miss when wapp was like the top
song in the country for like weeks?

602
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,800
Like seriously, because if our government
is a reflection of our people, if

603
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,280
that's what he wants our government to
align more clearly with the people, great,

604
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:35,760
because we're there. We have the
Wapp regime right now. There's also

605
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,840
the fact that the government, the
whole point of republic is that it is

606
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,960
insulated from the people. To dare
you you are see you were an enemy

607
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,880
of democracy? I mean, yeah, I'm very explicitly anti democracy. I

608
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,159
don't have that from anybody. But
we should all be anti democracy in the

609
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,039
literal sense because we have a republican
system of government. I mean, can

610
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:57,320
I just be anti democracy like we're
at large? You can be. I'm

611
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,760
not going I'm a proud monarchist Arsani
and I will be here on the left

612
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,039
and yeah, we'll keep you in
checks. Okay, I will guide us

613
00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:09,400
to the future. How whew is
it going with that? Beause that one's

614
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,440
on me. Yes, anding got
away from us. It's okay, well

615
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,440
no, but you were talking about
like, oh yeah, sorry interjected.

616
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,239
What I wanted to say is fake
me to point about how we're in a

617
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,719
He said something like we're in a
sort of cold cultural civil war, and

618
00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:27,440
I don't it's rebuttal to makepences what
he called the Morning in America speech,

619
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,800
which I thought was an amazing,
amazing rebuttal to that, because it's sorry,

620
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,320
Morning in America was in nineteen eighty
four. It was not nineteen eighty

621
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,039
it was a re election message.
Yeah, and I think part I think

622
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:37,960
two points. I think one part
of the reason the Vaca resonates so deeply

623
00:44:38,119 --> 00:44:44,199
with the people who Trump animated so
much in twenty sixteen is because he is

624
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,679
in tune with the fact that everyone
else is out of step, like you

625
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:51,360
have Nikki Hailey Kong for more foreign
spending in Ukraine when Americans aren't seeing really

626
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,079
any return on investment in that,
and if they are, they don't understand

627
00:44:53,119 --> 00:44:57,840
why. And he's calling for the
He's very much saying These people are out

628
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:59,960
of step. They don't know what
they're talking about. They're out of touch

629
00:45:00,039 --> 00:45:05,599
with you and your concerns. But
also the one foible I have with that

630
00:45:05,679 --> 00:45:08,639
comment is that it's not even just
a cold cultural civil war. It's just

631
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,960
a cultural civil war. Like you
said, if you disagree with your kids

632
00:45:13,039 --> 00:45:15,079
take cold yeah, yeah, it's
very much. It's very much militarized.

633
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,920
If you disagree with your kids being
taught gender theory and schools, you're going

634
00:45:20,079 --> 00:45:23,079
you run the risk of being fired
from your job. Yeah, exactly.

635
00:45:24,679 --> 00:45:28,920
People who disagreed in Canada with the
truckers, yeah, debank, they were

636
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,599
debang. Yeah. And people keep
saying that's never gonna happen here. It

637
00:45:30,679 --> 00:45:34,159
happens here. It's going to happen
here. If it I mean people do

638
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,280
get debang t here. I mean, granted that it's far and few in

639
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:42,280
between, but it's it will come
here. If you give the left even

640
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,920
more power, if they consolidate even
more power, just by consolidating power as

641
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,360
they do, it's going to happen. They're very explicit about that, and

642
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,360
they hide behind the same rhetoric like
oh, nobody's pushing for like full term

643
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:57,599
abortions when they did it like a
month ago, and then now disavow it.

644
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,719
They're gonna say no one's coming for
your bank account until you say the

645
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,440
wrong thing again, and then your
uncle with weird opinions gets his bank account

646
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,280
taken away. And once again,
the biggest problem in the United States is

647
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,719
the corrupt media, because this doesn't
happen in a healthy constitutional republic where you

648
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,480
have a functioning fourth estate. And
that's not to say it should be.

649
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:21,280
You know, all this idealized illusion
of a neutral Walter Concite delivering the new

650
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,079
delivering the news night after night,
that was actually really never real. All

651
00:46:23,119 --> 00:46:28,559
that was much closer to neutral than
it is now. We've had partisan press

652
00:46:28,679 --> 00:46:31,360
in this country for as long as
we've existed, and that's just fine.

653
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:37,960
But what we have now is completely
dishonest. And if you're not holding power

654
00:46:37,159 --> 00:46:40,559
accountable, if the media is not
holding power accountable, they are going to

655
00:46:40,639 --> 00:46:45,679
do whatever the hell they want.
And the power is aligned against the cultural

656
00:46:46,119 --> 00:46:51,920
right, and they're aligned in their
favor on economic questions, and you know,

657
00:46:52,039 --> 00:46:53,840
just as much as it keeps some
sense of social cohesion, right,

658
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,280
like, it's almost at a Gotham
point, right, where like if they

659
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,159
almost you know, well, if
you live in a major city, you've

660
00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:02,199
been outside today, well yeah,
I mean you can probably hear that.

661
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:06,280
People can probably hear when we record
in the office where I'm not going to

662
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,320
dox this. We're not that far
from the Capitol, the Capitol building that

663
00:47:09,519 --> 00:47:14,320
is the center of the free world, to the center of power in the

664
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:21,199
free world. And you can regularly
hear people screaming outside the office, probably

665
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,800
on the podcast recording, because they're
screaming a very very loudly, and be

666
00:47:25,199 --> 00:47:29,559
because they're mentally unwell when they live
on the streets. And it's incredibly tragic,

667
00:47:29,639 --> 00:47:32,719
and it is on a crazy scale. And that is due in some

668
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:37,239
part to something we haven't even touched
on. In large part, it is

669
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:44,480
due to the fact that we are
allowing China to supply Mexican cartels with increasingly

670
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:51,239
potent, dangerous versions of fentanyl trunk
that flows freely across our border because we

671
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:55,280
can't do the most basic thing of
actually securing the entrance into the country,

672
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,199
which secures the people, so that
you don't have people from the terrorist watch

673
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,039
list crossing. However, a year, by the dozens, we have Chinese

674
00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:05,880
people crossing, the crossing the border
people try to flee, People flee China

675
00:48:06,039 --> 00:48:08,440
to come to America illegally through Mexico. Yeah, that's how. That's how

676
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:13,400
it's easier to become an illegal immigrant
via China than it is to become a

677
00:48:13,519 --> 00:48:17,000
legal immigrant via China. It's just
kind of funny. But I mean,

678
00:48:17,039 --> 00:48:22,239
again, like, this is the
failure of our This is a failure of

679
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:27,000
our elite class to perform the most
basic functions of a government. Well,

680
00:48:27,079 --> 00:48:30,559
I think it's I think it's I
mean, obviously I don't think well,

681
00:48:30,679 --> 00:48:32,320
a lot of people would push back
against the idea, but we very clearly

682
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:37,280
have forfeited the idea of nationhood.
There is no there's nothing. The people

683
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,159
who again, the people who run
the institutions, who run the country,

684
00:48:39,639 --> 00:48:44,679
hate what the founding ethos was.
They've been told it's racist. They've been

685
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,840
taught it's Christian, which is apparently
a bad thing. They've been taught us

686
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,960
everything that they share it. They've
been toward us the antithesis to everything they

687
00:48:51,039 --> 00:48:53,239
cherish. So they're going to work
as hard as they can to undermine that

688
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:58,360
and implement the new founding. And
that's manifesting like the civil rights regime coming

689
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,280
forthright where it's a in the gender
ideology, if it's if it's if it

690
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:07,199
subverts what was established an established truth
even ten years ago, it has to

691
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:10,119
get done away with. A nationhood
is one of those things. There was

692
00:49:10,159 --> 00:49:14,719
a clip going viral recently of Hodakopy
in twenty twelve. I don't know if

693
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:19,000
you saw this, confronting the issue
of gender transition. I believe she was

694
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:22,159
talking to an advocate of I shouldn't
say gender of sex transition for children,

695
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:28,199
and she says, it's just crazy
to me. This is Hodakopy on NBC

696
00:49:28,639 --> 00:49:32,519
in twenty twelve. According to the
video that was circulating Twitter, she says,

697
00:49:32,679 --> 00:49:37,920
it is crazy to me that a
thirteen or fourteen year old could be

698
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:42,760
could make that decision of whether they
want to have biological children at that age,

699
00:49:43,039 --> 00:49:46,000
because obviously that can be an issue
if you're going through chemical transition.

700
00:49:46,559 --> 00:49:52,639
And it gets to this question of
the fentnel flooding our streets, et cetera,

701
00:49:52,679 --> 00:49:55,079
et cetera, because people are zombified, which is why homelessness feels more

702
00:49:55,159 --> 00:50:00,079
visible even in cities where it's actually
like the levels of reduced or whatever it

703
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:05,880
is, it's because of these drugs
which zombify people and make them so numb

704
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,280
to the world that they are behaving
in ways that feel less stable. Yes,

705
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,880
Sam, well, it was a
I'll let you finish your point,

706
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,480
then I'll make a dumb yes and
go for it. Without the media covering

707
00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:22,000
any of this, with the a
the sort of proportionality that it deserves and

708
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:25,000
the accuracy it deserves, power will
get away with it and people will continue

709
00:50:25,039 --> 00:50:30,360
to suffer because the people that are
preventing policies that might help them are not

710
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:35,360
being held accountable for failing to act
or for acting in the line ways.

711
00:50:36,599 --> 00:50:39,840
Are they numb to the world or
are we numb to the world? I

712
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:44,880
would argue Diogenes was more free.
We're numb to their numbness, right,

713
00:50:45,039 --> 00:50:49,480
Like yeah, because yeah, it's
it's totally true. I mean, when

714
00:50:49,519 --> 00:50:55,480
you can get when you can escape
from physical community and too. Obviously it's

715
00:50:55,679 --> 00:51:00,320
absolutely terrible. It's it's devastating on
all aspects of like human empathy. It's

716
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,519
it's awful. But yeah, I
think there's something to be said about the

717
00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:06,119
fact. I'm not even gonna try
and twist this. I was just a

718
00:51:06,199 --> 00:51:07,840
dumb joke. No, I mean, living on the streets is much easier

719
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:13,679
when you're unfentl Yeah, it's just
it's it is, it's different. It's

720
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:15,480
completely if you said you're zompified,
it's it numbs all of your senses of

721
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:20,280
perception. Yeah, the Trenk stuff
is absolutely horrifying. I don't really know

722
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,840
what shrenk is. I know it's
just a super powerful drug, very very

723
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:27,400
potent. But I've seen videos of
Philadelphia, which is one of the founding

724
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,079
cities of the nation, one of
them used to be an absolutely beautiful city.

725
00:51:30,679 --> 00:51:35,239
It's it looks dystopient. It's just
overflown with garbage. With the homeless

726
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,960
encampments aren't even if you go to
some if you look at some cities,

727
00:51:38,039 --> 00:51:42,519
homeless encampments sort of have some structure, right like here in parts of the

728
00:51:42,599 --> 00:51:45,840
city, there's homeless encampments and it's
like three or four camps and some kind

729
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:47,760
of shape, some kind of structure, whether it's like whether it's meant to

730
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:52,239
whether you withstand, whether or like
give some sense of privacy, there's some

731
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:59,480
kind of logic there. In Philadelphia, it's just waste. Everything is just

732
00:51:59,599 --> 00:52:04,920
waste. At these as. These
people were just slumped over wander around and

733
00:52:05,039 --> 00:52:09,239
writhe, yeah, it's bizarre.
Well, and there's this, I mean

734
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:16,159
National Review there, this was something
very online conservatives were fighting about. National

735
00:52:16,199 --> 00:52:21,119
Review reviewed the Oliver Anthony song.
Oh yeah, I was saying basically that

736
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:27,440
it you definitely remember that he just
popped in others in and he so he

737
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,320
The National Review said basically this was
one piece of National Review. I'm not

738
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,199
going to describe it to the entire
publication because I'm sure that there was internal

739
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:40,920
descent over it, but published someone
saying essentially that Oliver Anthony song doesn't give

740
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:46,360
enough power to individualism and agency?
Right, am I remembering it correctly,

741
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:53,440
sama. And that's the sort of
fundamental It's profoundly silly. It's an unseerious

742
00:52:53,559 --> 00:52:57,159
criticism. Well, first of all, please stop picking a part of song

743
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,079
like it's a manifesto. Like just
because some like some people are clinging to

744
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:06,079
it in a political way and for
a cause, does not mean you take

745
00:53:06,119 --> 00:53:10,960
it out on the songwriter for failing
to have a perfectly manicured political manifesto when

746
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,320
it's an expression of emotion. This
is just a silly thing to do.

747
00:53:15,559 --> 00:53:17,280
And this really makes me mad.
It's kind of an aside on that.

748
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,079
But I feel as though, I
mean, it's not even I feel as

749
00:53:20,119 --> 00:53:22,719
though it's just a fact the right
is culturally illiterate, largely like there's not

750
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:28,320
really a sense of enough how to
interpret art. It's clearly a song.

751
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:30,360
Songs are meant to express things.
It's not meant to, like you said,

752
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,679
be a manifesto. It's just it's
just a song. I think that's

753
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,519
the political class that's not so much
the right. I mean, if you're

754
00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:38,519
if you're looking at it. That's
why I don't mean like I don't mean

755
00:53:38,599 --> 00:53:42,880
like people like in the heartland who
really resonate with it. I mean that

756
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,760
people who Afriget who wrote the review, but the knock of the chuckle head

757
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,519
who wrote that review where it's here's
why it doesn't Why isn't he praising corporate

758
00:53:50,559 --> 00:53:53,119
tax cuts. That's great for his
for the GDP and his IRA. It's

759
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:59,679
it's people who just want to because
this doesn't express my specific views, it

760
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,400
is wrong views. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean I get that.

761
00:54:02,519 --> 00:54:06,880
And also, yes, treating a
song as though it's supposed to be

762
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:12,599
a manifesto or an essay is just
obnoxious to another degree. I mean it

763
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:17,239
is it's a song. It's supposed
to be this visceral outburst of emotion.

764
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:22,360
It's vibes yeah, and it's vibes
yes, but that vibe is not quite

765
00:54:22,519 --> 00:54:27,840
accurate. He didn't praise corporate tax
cuts. If he did, National Review

766
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:29,760
would have loved it would have been
Song of the Year. Well. I

767
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,880
think there is something to be said
for agency and individualism, and I do

768
00:54:34,079 --> 00:54:37,800
think there are still some people that
you know, make excuses for X number

769
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,639
of reasons, that have upward mobility
at their disposal in the United States of

770
00:54:40,679 --> 00:54:45,559
America in the year of Our Lord
twenty twenty three, who are not exercising

771
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:49,159
that freedom. I'm sure that's true, absolutely, and maybe the New Right

772
00:54:49,199 --> 00:54:52,760
doesn't talk about it enough. But
guess what. We also now conduct all

773
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:57,159
of our business, personal and professional
on little devices. It doesn't matter.

774
00:54:57,599 --> 00:55:00,800
It does not matter if you are
somebody who works, you know, third

775
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:05,079
shift at a fast food restaurant,
at a waffle house, or you are

776
00:55:05,199 --> 00:55:10,280
a business executive. You are still
tied to that device for potential life and

777
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,880
death updates. So you can,
at any moment in time, because of

778
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,360
that little box, have the worst
or the best news of your life coming

779
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:21,719
down to you that it will rewire
your brain. There's just no question about

780
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:23,800
it. It has done it to
everyone, and it is having deleterious effects

781
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:28,679
on our mental health. You can
have work coming through on that little device

782
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,360
at any given time, with an
email asking you to work a different day,

783
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:35,920
someone's schedule got messed up, someone
you know is sick, can you

784
00:55:36,039 --> 00:55:37,679
take this shift, et cetera,
et cetera. This can happen at any

785
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:42,679
time. So it's perfectly rational for
somebody to constantly be checking that thing,

786
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,400
to constantly be checking that watch.
And this has obviously been deleterious for people's

787
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:52,159
mental health, and it affects basically
every single one of us. It is

788
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:57,760
the system. It is the social
and professional system of life in this country

789
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,760
now. So yeah, it's like, if you want to have that individual

790
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:07,079
agency when you're likely to live in
a community that is not flourishing because of

791
00:56:07,159 --> 00:56:10,960
that, also because of again to
bring it back to literally foods that we

792
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:15,880
eat, the fact that you have
huge preponderance of type two diabetes and heart

793
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:21,119
disease and all of these other problems
addiction. Maybe you live in one of

794
00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:23,239
those communities that's not super touched by
any of this, you're still really touched

795
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:27,480
by the phone problem, You're still
really touched by all of that, the

796
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:30,159
fact that you're still really touched by
obesity, even if you live in a

797
00:56:30,199 --> 00:56:32,440
wealthy community. That really is war
on all fronts. Like nobody can really

798
00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:36,599
escape it. Like you said earlier, it's just it's it's truly unavoidable,

799
00:56:37,159 --> 00:56:39,440
right, And individualism sounds great,
I get it, and like it's very

800
00:56:39,639 --> 00:56:45,119
very hard, right, it's it's
but that's the thing. No, But

801
00:56:45,199 --> 00:56:47,480
I mean, I mean, there's
there is absolutely something to be to be

802
00:56:47,639 --> 00:56:53,679
said for you know, being like
having an incredible like Frederick Douglas story,

803
00:56:54,039 --> 00:56:57,679
right, There's there's absolutely something to
be said for that, and we are

804
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,360
we have the freedom to do it
in this country in ways that have never

805
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:04,679
existed in human history. And I
understand that, absolutely there's something to be

806
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,440
said for that. But that does
not take culpability away from all of the

807
00:57:08,519 --> 00:57:13,800
bad actors, powerful bad actors that
are making that harder and harder and harder

808
00:57:14,039 --> 00:57:16,360
every single day. It doesn't mean
that you have to talk about one at

809
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:20,360
the expense of the other. It
doesn't get the other one off the hook.

810
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:27,000
Right right to your point about individuality, I'm not sure if this is

811
00:57:27,039 --> 00:57:30,920
a circular point or not, but
the fact that the cultural the whole,

812
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,480
the fact that the country is just
decaying and falling part of the seems makes

813
00:57:34,519 --> 00:57:37,599
it impossible for anybody to self actualize
as an individual. There's no way to

814
00:57:37,639 --> 00:57:43,880
get the solid ground beneath their feet
if every single cultural circumstance is just eroding

815
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,159
perpetually, right, like, for
instance, it's people are meeting each other

816
00:57:46,239 --> 00:57:50,000
on tender or economics. I was
thinking, I wasn't even thinking of dating.

817
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,599
I was thinking, well, that's
an economic question though, About like

818
00:57:52,639 --> 00:57:54,400
whether you're able to start a family
unit, Well, yeah, for sure,

819
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:59,199
I'm okay, yeah, I'll see
at that point. But you know

820
00:57:59,679 --> 00:58:01,599
you can you can't get to the
point where you want to make that family

821
00:58:01,679 --> 00:58:06,039
unit if you're drowning in student loans. Student loan dot is actually one of

822
00:58:06,079 --> 00:58:08,159
the big reasons that people cite for
not getting married at certain ages. And

823
00:58:08,199 --> 00:58:12,079
whether or not you believe that it
is actually what people cite. Yeah,

824
00:58:12,119 --> 00:58:16,760
also that's my excuse as well,
But really that's a completely valid point.

825
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:20,440
Yeah, student loan debt if your
ticket, if you say, the ticket

826
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:24,920
to the middle classes that you have
to filter yourself through this political cultural conditioning

827
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:30,320
for four years at insane cost that
will put you in at least, you

828
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,840
know, thirty forty thousand dollars student
loan debt on average. Well, someone

829
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:38,199
might say, if you are truly
a rugged individualist, then you can go

830
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:43,840
to a trade school, or you
can go to start at a community school,

831
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:45,679
pay a little bit of money,
and then transfer to a state school

832
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:50,000
and get out scott free. And
you can do this all while working another

833
00:58:50,119 --> 00:58:52,440
job. And again, like,
I think that's true for some people.

834
00:58:53,079 --> 00:58:55,400
There are some people who do have
the freedom and ability to do that,

835
00:58:55,559 --> 00:59:01,719
but everywhere in society is telling them
to do something else. Everywhere in society

836
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:06,480
is telling them to go get that
humanity's degree, had the liberal arts school,

837
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:10,159
right, And so when you're eighteen
years old and you're making that decision,

838
00:59:12,119 --> 00:59:15,800
I'm sorry, I'm not going to
be like m You should have been

839
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:21,079
that rugged individualist that found the past
the path less traveled when your brain wasn't

840
00:59:21,119 --> 00:59:24,159
fully formed, and you wouldn't have
had forty thousand dollars dead. Now.

841
00:59:24,519 --> 00:59:29,920
I think there's also something the point
that the anti college right really misses is

842
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:34,559
that we need you know, high
I q young conservatives to go into college.

843
00:59:34,599 --> 00:59:37,880
If we need conservative doctors, engineers, engineers we need, we certainly

844
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:43,400
need competent engineers because our infrastructure is
bad, Holy crap. But we know

845
00:59:43,519 --> 00:59:45,920
you need conservative doctors who aren't going
to tell a you know, an uncomfortable

846
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:51,599
with thirteen year old girl that maybe
she's a boy. You need. If

847
00:59:51,639 --> 00:59:54,079
we forfeit all of academia, if
we tell all of our smart young people

848
00:59:54,119 --> 00:59:57,639
to go become voters. And I'm
not saying voters aren't important, because they

849
00:59:57,639 --> 01:00:00,679
clearly are, and they make a
crap ton of money. Yeah, we're

850
01:00:00,719 --> 01:00:04,800
just going to forfeit these institutions in
perpetuity. There has to be at some

851
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,559
point, there has to be an
active attempt at recapture. And in order

852
01:00:07,599 --> 01:00:10,480
to do that, you don't want
to lesser the threshold to become skilled in

853
01:00:10,519 --> 01:00:14,320
those things. So you have to
be you have to enter the institutions yourself

854
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,320
and just try and take them over. Yeah. Well, and that's it

855
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:20,800
brings us kind of full circle here, which is to the book ends of

856
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:23,320
the Summer Sound of Freedom and Oliver
Anthony, I did not see Sound of

857
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:29,239
Freedom. It's just fun, and
I mean it's good it's not. I

858
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,280
wouldn't say it's the Fantastic movie.
They wanted it to be some kind of

859
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:36,119
Uncle Tom's Cabin thing, like there
was an explicit call at the end and

860
01:00:36,159 --> 01:00:40,119
the post credits scene or along with
the credit scene with Jim Caviezel saying,

861
01:00:40,159 --> 01:00:43,800
this could be the next Uncle Tom's
Cabin if we get enough people to see

862
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:45,719
it and wake them up to what's
happening with human trafficking. I don't think

863
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,320
it's going to have that effect,
just because I don't think there's the political

864
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,639
or cultural will to have that effect. Despite the fact that human trafficking is

865
01:00:52,719 --> 01:00:54,920
a very real issue and people are
very passionate about it, there's just not

866
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:59,280
the organization to do that, and
I don't think people perceive it in the

867
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,960
same way they previous you know,
black slavery in America. So yeah,

868
01:01:04,159 --> 01:01:07,239
the reason that I didn't see yeah, yeah, And the reason I didn't

869
01:01:07,239 --> 01:01:09,639
see it is because on a story
like this, a I'm not a big

870
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:15,400
movie person in general. I mean
that's not true. I do love movies,

871
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,760
but my attention span has been destroyed
by reality television, both myself as

872
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:24,760
an individual and the tech company is. But also I've just I've always preferred

873
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:29,039
TV since I was a kid,
and I also always preferred documentary. So

874
01:01:29,079 --> 01:01:31,360
if you're telling me a true story, I very rarely have the patience for

875
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:35,239
a fictionalized version of it. I
always want the real version so I can

876
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,679
judge it. It's just a weird
thing about how my brain works. It

877
01:01:37,719 --> 01:01:39,360
feels like I'm not saying it is
a waste of time. It just feels

878
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,840
like a waste of time for me. Some of times I'd rather just get

879
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:46,639
the facts. That said. The
really thing, really important thing to know

880
01:01:46,719 --> 01:01:51,400
about Sound of Freedom is what it
was able to do, which is totally

881
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:55,760
come in with no support from any
of the traditional infrastructure in Hollywood, and

882
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,480
it was antagonized infrastructure to be in
one of the most popular films of the

883
01:02:00,519 --> 01:02:05,159
summer that was dominated by popular film. I mean, this is last summer

884
01:02:05,199 --> 01:02:07,760
it was Top Gun. Everyone was
talking about how Top Gun brought movies back,

885
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:09,519
and I don't really think anything's going
to bring theaters back to where they

886
01:02:09,599 --> 01:02:15,519
ever were, whether it's Top Gun
or Barbie or Oppenheimer. But this movie

887
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:21,719
did just numbers that people can't be
expected on a budget that nobody would pair

888
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:25,519
with that level of success, a
budget, lack of media coverage, lack

889
01:02:25,599 --> 01:02:31,719
of institutional power, all of that. And it's interesting what that show is

890
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:37,960
these sort of alternative paths through the
gates people are now learning. I think

891
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:42,800
they now have the muscle memory,
for instance, to figure out, you

892
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,639
know, they'll figure out Oliver Anthony's
on Spotify, for instance, and go

893
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:50,920
check it out. People use YouTube, music or whatever it is they know,

894
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:52,440
you know, to look in those
places instead of in the past.

895
01:02:52,519 --> 01:02:58,079
I think when somebody like Oliver Anthony
goes really viral, he's not necessarily able

896
01:02:58,079 --> 01:03:00,199
to get that up on Spotify really
quickly, you know what I mean,

897
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:01,679
Like it would just be on YouTube
or just be the clip on Twitter or

898
01:03:01,719 --> 01:03:06,239
something like that. And was sound
a freedom I don't know. So,

899
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:07,960
Like to your point about cancel culture
that you made earlier, I do think

900
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:10,599
some of the incentives are shifting,
and I think some of this is playing

901
01:03:10,639 --> 01:03:15,599
a role and shifting those incentives,
which is all positive. But at the

902
01:03:15,639 --> 01:03:19,559
same time, if the people in
positions of power, let's even say on

903
01:03:19,639 --> 01:03:24,159
the right, which is the only
vehicle at this point to like making the

904
01:03:24,239 --> 01:03:30,159
culture better, making the politics better, because it's the only party that's willing

905
01:03:30,199 --> 01:03:32,440
to admit, you know, men
or men, women are women, and

906
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:38,280
we shouldn't kill babies in the third
term and etc. Etc. That's sanity.

907
01:03:38,679 --> 01:03:42,280
It's a level of sanity that you
need to expect as a baseline,

908
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,440
and if you can't, that's a
big problem. But all that is to

909
01:03:45,519 --> 01:03:49,519
say, the incentives are shifting,
but if they're still going to be like

910
01:03:50,199 --> 01:03:54,679
Oliver Anthony owned the Libs, then
they go on. I think there's also

911
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:58,559
an issue we have to grapple with
in the right is that huge not huge

912
01:03:58,559 --> 01:04:01,159
contentions, but large swaths of it
just kind of forfeit these battles, Like

913
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:08,039
there is a huge again not a
huge contention, a considerable portion of nominal

914
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:12,400
people who will call themselves conservative,
who just don't care about the transgender issue

915
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:15,199
anymore, Like we're tired of hearing
about it though, to see the ground

916
01:04:15,239 --> 01:04:17,239
because they want to move on to
something that's more pressing, like whether or

917
01:04:17,239 --> 01:04:21,039
not they can afford to feed their
kids completely. And yeah, you know,

918
01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:26,199
I can empathize with that, but
that is a very existential issue that

919
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:28,760
strikes at the heart of what it
just means to exist. Yes, and

920
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:30,880
if we lose the will to fight
those cultural battles, which I am sad

921
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:36,400
to say, I think a big
portion of people are then that heresy is

922
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:40,880
going to assert itself as the truth. Yeah, you'll notice Oliver Anthony wasn't

923
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:44,400
just singing about it, wasn't justest
singing about the economy. Yeah, he

924
01:04:44,519 --> 01:04:46,360
was singing about the cross section of
the economy and culture, and with a

925
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,840
heavy emphasis and culture. So yeah, I mean it, all of this

926
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:54,719
stuff absolutely matters. It is a
kitchen table issue for families, whether their

927
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:58,519
school is teaching that, whether Disney
World, where they planned this trip and

928
01:04:58,559 --> 01:05:01,239
their kids are dying to go,
going to have men dressed as princesses like

929
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,519
these are actually kitchen table issues for
people, and it is also, I

930
01:05:04,559 --> 01:05:11,719
think a baseline question of just like
sanity and your commitment to truth. It's

931
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,760
not easy to be someone on the
left who has heterodox opinions on these.

932
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:17,639
Even if you're like billionaire JK.
Rowling. You're being called all the worst

933
01:05:17,719 --> 01:05:21,519
names of men imaginable in the West, you know, bigot it, you're

934
01:05:21,519 --> 01:05:26,119
being accused of causing suicides. I
mean, it's just it is really horrific

935
01:05:26,199 --> 01:05:29,920
stuff, and it has material consequences. There's no question about it. Do

936
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,000
you think the insensives are shifting.
I think, you know, the institutions

937
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,239
are learning. For instance, we
are not going to get into the Richard

938
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:39,840
Hannanni debate, but debate, but
so far his publisher has stood by him.

939
01:05:40,719 --> 01:05:45,800
And you know what, public intellectuals
are not going to be squeaky clean

940
01:05:46,159 --> 01:05:50,519
little uh, you know, perfect
perfectionists, like they're going to have horrific

941
01:05:50,679 --> 01:05:55,159
ideas, and well, I don't
know about horrific all the time, but

942
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:57,800
you do have to there has to
be some degree of like subversion in order

943
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:00,360
to be and have to debate.
You have to be able to debate,

944
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,440
right, Yeah, that's all I
was saying. And I think the insensives

945
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:06,159
are shifting because and I would have
been canceled in thirty seconds. And like

946
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:11,000
sincerely, I mean, I don't
think people on the right should be entertaining

947
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,639
the Nannias situation at all. I
think he's proven time and again that he

948
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,719
is not certainly not a friend of
the right, and certainly not somebody whose

949
01:06:18,039 --> 01:06:23,280
ideas should be embraced, whose worldview
should be embraced. That's not to condemn

950
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:28,559
every tweet or the parson himself so
much as it is some of those ideas

951
01:06:28,599 --> 01:06:30,119
that I think are truly I don't
want to debate it on this on the

952
01:06:30,119 --> 01:06:34,679
show because I don't think it's worth
it. But some really truly evil Nietzsche

953
01:06:34,679 --> 01:06:41,400
in worldview, parts of his worldview
and the sort of nietch and conservatism we

954
01:06:41,599 --> 01:06:45,599
were mentioning BAP on Red Scared just
not that long ago. There's an opening

955
01:06:45,679 --> 01:06:48,920
for that, I think right now
it's very online. That was the I'd

956
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,039
love to get into the niche and
stuff at some point, but that's going

957
01:06:51,079 --> 01:06:56,480
to take a whole other like month
of recording. So easy for a nearly

958
01:06:56,719 --> 01:07:01,960
seven foot cis hit white man,
tot too long for Nietzsche. No,

959
01:07:02,239 --> 01:07:05,719
I despise Nietzche. That is not
offensive. I know I am reviled by

960
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:12,519
his very correct ideas. Take it
back, I retract that. I actually

961
01:07:12,519 --> 01:07:16,039
do think he has a very anti
Christian worldview that is very problematic. But

962
01:07:16,119 --> 01:07:20,400
I understand why it resonates with a
lot of people online. It makes perfect

963
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:24,880
suns Yeah, no, no,
it's completely understanding. By but why these

964
01:07:25,039 --> 01:07:29,360
sort of ideas are jumping into the
cultural vacuum, and by the way it

965
01:07:29,519 --> 01:07:34,119
is counterproductive for elites to continue creating
those cultural vacuums because the populism they so

966
01:07:34,679 --> 01:07:40,159
detest, or maybe let's say deplore, is going to get stronger and stronger

967
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:44,039
more they create those vacuums. They
cannot shut it down. And I think

968
01:07:44,079 --> 01:07:47,639
that's an interesting caveat to not caveat. But an interesting sidebar to the Hanania

969
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:51,599
situation is that if you, you
know, take away his book deal and

970
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:56,039
basically just try to unperson him exactly, that's just going to put a tunnel

971
01:07:56,039 --> 01:07:59,840
windiness sales and just make people want
to talk about it more. I agree,

972
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,079
although we were also talking about how
that censorship can have real consequences on

973
01:08:03,159 --> 01:08:05,599
the discourse, and I think both
it's like both our true. In the

974
01:08:05,639 --> 01:08:10,119
one hand, it makes it like
really sexy and seductive to a group of

975
01:08:10,199 --> 01:08:12,719
people it depends. On the other
hand, Yeah, that group might not

976
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:16,079
grow like it would, but it
still can get really strong right through more

977
01:08:16,119 --> 01:08:20,079
nefarious means. Sometimes, if you
if you suppress people having a free conversation

978
01:08:20,079 --> 01:08:23,960
about these things, they're going to
become resentful and bitter and use their ideas

979
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:26,840
as a weapon, as opposed to
a free flowing idea where they might find

980
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,760
a way to delegitimize an otherwise faulty
premise. Right, So it's like,

981
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:31,640
for instance, let's take as we
wrap as we wrap up here, let's

982
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:35,479
take Oliver Anthony and sound a Freedom. When you have National Review or people

983
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:43,600
saying, well, this song did
not talk about individualism and the movie was

984
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:48,800
Q adjacent, It's like, okay, so let me just grant you that

985
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,960
point. I'll grant you both of
that point, both of those points.

986
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:59,079
Why on earth are you wasting your
time talking about this small quibble rather than

987
01:08:59,119 --> 01:09:00,960
the very serious problems that are at
the root of all of this, which

988
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:09,479
would be the fact that you have
billionaire Jeffrey Epstein rings or actually, let's

989
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:15,319
just say that one ring, where's
mass mass trafficking? That was you know,

990
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,520
aided and about it by the political
class and to some extent the media

991
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:24,439
for a while. And then the
man doesn't find doesn't get justice is connected

992
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,600
to intelligence. You have all this
information, and then you have, on

993
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:30,560
the other hand, like very obvious
in real concerns in the Olive Anthony song.

994
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,720
If even you say, not enough
focus on individualism, but you would

995
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:40,239
agree those problems exist, why would
you waste your breath talking about some small

996
01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:45,000
downstream thing. It's like when people
turn to every conservative in media and say,

997
01:09:45,079 --> 01:09:47,159
well, why aren't you denouncing this
one thing Trump did, It's like,

998
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:51,000
of course, of course Trump did
some things wrong. I'm much more

999
01:09:51,079 --> 01:09:56,880
concerned about the fact that the entire
political system and Department of Justice is being

1000
01:09:56,960 --> 01:10:00,359
weaponized against him in ways that are
much worse than what he did. And

1001
01:10:00,399 --> 01:10:03,600
you're gonna get more of that if
you don't stop this other thing. So

1002
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:09,039
why are you wasting your breath on
that? Whenever someone accuses something of being

1003
01:10:09,119 --> 01:10:13,039
Q adjacent, it kind of makes
me think they're just a pedophile. Like,

1004
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:15,279
why is it an issue for someone
to say, hey, it's bad

1005
01:10:15,319 --> 01:10:19,399
a traffic children. Yeah, I
mean you'd think it would be totally fine.

1006
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:23,880
I think that's a pretty innocuous thing
to say. Anyway, Well,

1007
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:27,680
yeah, we can agree on that
point. Pedophiles are bad. Pedophiles are

1008
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:31,359
bad. Sam Mangold Lennart, staff
editor at The Federalist. Thanks for this

1009
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:38,119
late summer grievance airing. No problem, Always happy to event. All right,

1010
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I'm Emily Jasinski, Culture editor the
Federalist. You've been listening to another

1011
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edition of Federalist Radio Hour. We'll
be back soon with more. Until then,

1012
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be lovers of freedom and anxious for
the frame