WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.160 --> 00:00:07.839 I'm Casey Tanner and I'm Camille Lewis. And this is safe word. Safe 2 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:11.720 Word is sex therapy unhinged because instead of being a blank slate that's just here 3 00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:14.599 to support you, we're telling you the details on our own sex lives, 4 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.280 relationships, identities, and more. This isn't sex and it's not therapy, 5 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:21.280 but we are a sex therapists and what you here today may excite you. 6 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:25.199 Each week we tackle a theme related to sex, relationships, gender, and 7 00:00:25.320 --> 00:01:07.760 more. This week we're diving into secret turn ons and guilty pleasures. Hum. 8 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:12.560 So the exciting thing about today is that we are forming interne sitting right 9 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:17.159 next to practically on top of one another, and so this is amazing. 10 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:21.079 And also that there might be some train sounds in the back because we're in 11 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:25.000 our office and there's a train that keeps running by. But so excited to 12 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:26.840 be here with you, Oh my gosh. Yeah, I feel like this 13 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:32.120 episode is going to be sillier and weirder ya because we've we've already spent like 14 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:34.439 twenty four hours together. We're already unhinged. Yeah, And I feel like 15 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:40.439 my energy is just like like I just keep pouncing on you. So all 16 00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:44.239 right, so here we go. All right, what's your guilty pleasure. 17 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:47.120 I'm just gonna ask you straight up, I don't even know if I have 18 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:51.560 a guilty pleasure. You're just not guilty about your pleasure. No, no, 19 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:53.280 no, I'm not. Yeah I'm not. But I have a secret 20 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:59.640 turn and I'm randomly really attracted to left handed people. Yeah, it's like 21 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:02.239 a thing. I was on a date actually this week. This is something 22 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:06.760 I probably knew about this person, but when he went to sign the bill 23 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:07.479 with his left hand, I was like, oh my god, are you 24 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:12.280 left handed? And then you weren't sure about him, like you you ask 25 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:15.919 me how that's all the time, because I don't know why I think left 26 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:17.800 handed people are hot. I want you to just have that as like the 27 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:22.280 only line in your dating profile. Yes, I would right on somebody who 28 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:25.680 said left handed people only just simply I would need to understand that's a really 29 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:30.039 good idea. I feel like my dating profile is flat, so I'll up. 30 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:32.199 I like that. Okay. The other thing about that is, sometimes 31 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:37.199 when I'm having sex, I so wish that my other hand could do what 32 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:40.120 my right hand could do, simply because of like the angle of if I'm 33 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:44.759 like laying next to somebody. Yeah, like Mal and I will sometimes in 34 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:47.280 the middle of it literally just have to like flop over each other's body just 35 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:50.439 so that we can use our right hand. So I feel like, yah, 36 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:53.800 yeah, maybe that's part of it. I think it's like the way 37 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:55.639 that they like hold things. I don't know. I'm just like, m 38 00:02:55.840 --> 00:03:00.719 like powerful, Oh my god, like you have to really figure things out, 39 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:05.680 and it's like less so like ambidexterous is also really cool. But Leslie's 40 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:09.319 I like a lefty Yeah wow, oh I was gonna share a different secret 41 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:13.520 pleasure. But you kind of have inspired me to think, do I have 42 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.120 a weird thing like that? And I'm realizing I'm really turned on by people 43 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:21.800 who have a lot of drug knowledge, like like like they would like drugs, 44 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:24.159 like they could babysit me on shrooms Okay, And you know, maybe 45 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:28.680 this is just like another version of a domp sub power dynamic in a way, 46 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:31.599 like I just want somebody to drug babysit me. Okay, that's really 47 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:37.919 lovely. Yeah yeah, somebody would who I would entrust to do something like 48 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:39.400 that I think would definitely be a turn on because I'd be like, wow, 49 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:44.400 I can just like I can go back into my deepest, darkest memories 50 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:46.960 and you'll still be there. Well, you know, I think both of 51 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:52.960 ours make absolute sense totally. Yeah, we can at least make sense of 52 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:58.960 each other's that's what super great questions. And y'all have fun, amazing hot 53 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:05.319 turn on lutely. I'm excited to get into these. This verse one that 54 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:10.879 kills me. Not a question, not a question, just says I'm a 55 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:16.720 bisexual bottom man. Good free Correct, you have just said some facts about 56 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:23.560 yourself. Yeah, I'm we are here agreeing and affirming, so work. 57 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:30.240 Yeah, I love it. Okay. Is it okay to get it on 58 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:36.000 in public places? Let? Yeah? Yeah, there we go, Okay. 59 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:41.519 Is it okay? Yeah? Yeah, I think it's totally okay. 60 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:44.800 Do you want to do so thoughtfully so that you don't get in trouble with 61 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:49.879 the police. But that's my only thought. People are really into exhibitionism. 62 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:55.800 I know that somebody that I'm dating really like to have like public sex. 63 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:59.839 Actually, we were in a movie theater and I was giving him head. 64 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:04.000 He doesn't really comes like last week. It was it was like a few 65 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:08.839 months ago. Did I already hear this story? No? How do I 66 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:11.800 not know that this happened. Oh I don't know. I think I'm head 67 00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:15.600 in a movie theater and we had sex, like I was, oh my 68 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:18.480 god. It was during the Batman, a new Batman movie, and he 69 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:21.600 like came from head, which he usually doesn't do. So and I think, 70 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:27.560 yeah, yeah, I did one time have like full on penetrative sex 71 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:31.240 on the floor of a concert Jesse j concert. I know, I know, 72 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:35.439 three years before. How it just happened, you know, it just 73 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:41.839 it just happened. Wow, I'm impressed. I'm impressed with you. Yeah. 74 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:44.879 Wait, And another time I did have sex it is like a nightclub 75 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.399 in Africa that was fun. Yeah, it was like in a random bof 76 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:51.399 So this has turned into us basically saying yes, yes, it okay, 77 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:55.480 but we also participate. Yeah, but agree with you, Like, this 78 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:59.079 doesn't need to be a guilty pleasure, just a thoughtful pleasure. Who's around 79 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:01.519 you, whether it's you know, be aware of the police, but also 80 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:05.040 not everybody around you has consented to watch you have sex. So it's not 81 00:06:05.079 --> 00:06:09.480 just the police, it's it's everybody around you. So can you find a 82 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:14.240 place that's in public where the chance of anyone actually seeing you is pretty much 83 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:17.839 zero. Yeah to me, that's that's ideal. Or like a public restroom, 84 00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:20.439 Yeah, where you're still in a stall and nobody's going to see something 85 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:25.120 they didn't consist I've done not too fairly. Yeah, so yeah, just 86 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:29.199 be mindful. Right, Not everybody is into public sex, including the people 87 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:32.120 going to the bathroom in the stall next to you, So just be mindful. 88 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:39.240 So what are some easy ways to bring up secret turn ons and kinks 89 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:44.439 with a new partner. The more that you're integrating conversations about sex in general 90 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:47.399 in any relationship, the easier these conversations are going to be. So if 91 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:50.800 you're talking about sex in the same way that you talk about like plans for 92 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:54.800 the weekend or what you did at work, it's going to feel easier. 93 00:06:54.879 --> 00:07:00.120 And to know that pretty much everyone has something that they like, and so 94 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:01.680 the more that you could talk about it and bring it to light, I 95 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:04.600 think the better it is. I'm just sharing part of me with you, 96 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:09.800 and you can model for them that they can share a similar thing with you. 97 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:14.120 Part of it is telling yourself and reminding yourself that there's nothing wrong with 98 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:17.000 your desire, and if you share a matter of factly, I think it's 99 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:19.399 like, yeah, I just kind of like to get paid on It's fine. 100 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:25.279 And then the person can be like, okay, if you're like really 101 00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:30.160 important and please don't like frame it as just like they're like all right, 102 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:32.040 so like and what about you? And then they're like, oh, I 103 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:36.000 guess I like my nuts to get stumped whatever. And it's like, okay, 104 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:40.519 cool. So you say you're saying if you bring sort of a casualness 105 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:46.560 to the conversation, then people can maybe we'll tend to match that potentially, 106 00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:51.600 Yeah, because everybody has something that arouses them, that makes them feel erotic. 107 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:55.600 So this is just us getting to know each other. It is one 108 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:59.680 of those moments where I'm thinking about how differently we talk about sex than anything 109 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:01.560 else. I'm of two minds here because on one hand, I'm like, 110 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:05.839 Okay, it actually makes sense to ask if somebody's in the headspace to talk 111 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:09.079 about it. It makes sense to make sure that the timing is right. 112 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:13.800 And also it sucks that this is a topic that, because of our trauma, 113 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:18.759 because of the media, has made us so activated that we need to 114 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.720 have that framework around it, unlike frameworks we need to have about any other 115 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:24.439 conversation. If I ask you your hobbies, it's almost like Kamil, what 116 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.360 are your weird hobbies? Yeah, you wouldn't be like, le, sit 117 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.720 down, are you okay? Yeah? Right? Hopping videos? Right? 118 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.559 And I would be like, I wish you would prepared me for that. 119 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:41.039 That is really activated. I have no shame. I love that about you. 120 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:43.240 But yeah, it's sort of that, the sort of like weird both 121 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:46.879 and right, it is helpful to give some space and a framework to it. 122 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.320 Sucks that sex is a topic in our society that requires that, but 123 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:54.399 I think it often does um And you know what, it gets easier as 124 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:58.440 you go. There may be no easy way to bring it up the first 125 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:01.559 time. It might always feel really vulnerable to bring it up the first time, 126 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:03.480 but the more you talk about it, easier it gets. I also 127 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:09.320 will stay to clients like go listen to audio erotica of people engaging in this 128 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:11.120 kink or people talking about the kink. So even just by listening to the 129 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:16.519 audio erotica of somebody talking about the kink, you're hearing it modeled for you 130 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:18.919 and the way that we almost never get to hear it and model so that 131 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:20.799 in itself can be a little bit of practice. Also yes, no, 132 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:26.240 maybe lists I bring itself like every episode they're the best. Have a piece 133 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:31.200 of paper or an app initiate the conversation for you, or sticky notes I 134 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.039 do, red, red, yellow, green? You will you use like 135 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:37.879 actual sticky notes? Yeah? Like I think I go down and then you 136 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:41.159 can, like then you can put them somewhere if like in like your shared 137 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:45.600 space or in your own space, and then like some things get moved over. 138 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:48.000 I love you love that because like you can just be like, oh, 139 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:52.559 this was a no, and now I'm like every time you walk by 140 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:56.279 the little board with the sticky notes, you're looking to see if anything yea, 141 00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:01.799 yeah, honey, suddenly yes, I love that. So the next 142 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:07.759 question is has being sex therapists influenced your kinks? Do you still have guilty 143 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:11.919 pleasures? Why do you think? I mean, it's definitely influenced my kinks. 144 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:15.279 I think mainly because I understand so much more about what's on the menu 145 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:16.960 now than I did before. And the more I learn about what's on the 146 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:20.720 menu, the more I want it. So yeah, my kinks have grown 147 00:10:20.039 --> 00:10:24.679 drastically in number I do. Unlike you, I do still have guilty pleasures, 148 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:28.279 like I have things that like I wouldn't talk about on this podcast, 149 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:35.320 and that I know I'm still like figuring out how to talk about it with 150 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:37.879 mal I think in different ways. I think that I don't think this is 151 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:41.159 actually true, but in my mind and mind of a lot of my clients, 152 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:48.840 there's this sort of I guess there's this category of kink or there's this 153 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:52.159 like part of the kink world that I think starts to give this territory that's 154 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:56.840 that feels even more shame written than some of the others. And this might 155 00:10:56.879 --> 00:11:00.879 just be me projecting, but that's how I experience rains it, okay, 156 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:05.759 And when I get there, it's like even my sex therapist training can't undo 157 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:09.440 the shame. Not yet at least. I've only been a sex therapist for 158 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:11.799 a few years, so maybe ten years from now I'll be saying something different. 159 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:16.399 But yeah, I do think some shame is so deeply ingrained that no 160 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:22.720 matter how many academic texts you read or people you work with, there's had 161 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:26.720 knowledge and there's heart knowledge. And I think I am still like waiting for 162 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:28.000 my heart to catch up to some of the things I've learned as a sex 163 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:33.840 therapist around shame and kinks. So, yeah, that makes so much sense. 164 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.360 I mean that shame is so insidious, right, so it's like it's 165 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:39.600 going to pop up also my like where we least expect it, even if 166 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:43.840 we have like this area of knowledge and expertise. It's like, sure, 167 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:50.200 I know these things logically, but also I'm gonna get I'm gonna get the 168 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:54.399 information off Mike, like I think I would tell you, Yes, I 169 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:58.120 think I would tell you. When I think of guilty pleasures, what are 170 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:01.399 guilty pleasure? I don't know what they are. Maybe I think they're just 171 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:05.159 things that turn people on. They feel guilt that they feel bad about Okay, 172 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:09.960 they feel like they're not allowed to be turned on by um Okay, 173 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:13.279 then I had that. I think definitely with my porn watching, okay, 174 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:16.639 you're sometimes ashamed of the search turn Yeah, but like not really like I 175 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.320 would say it. Like let's say, like, for example, sometimes I 176 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:26.799 definitely watched like Stepdad and Daughter, like the inc I've watched that too, 177 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:31.279 or yeah, but I think that that would probably be one that people be 178 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:33.960 like, No, I don't know, but I don't know. Lately I've 179 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:37.519 been watching a lot of like two men and one woman in a threesome. 180 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:41.759 Yeah, it's like tibe vibe. Yeah, let me read the question and 181 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:43.840 then I want to I want to respond to what you just said. Yeah, 182 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:46.679 this person says, I only think about spanking fetishes when I'm alone. 183 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:50.000 My partner wants to spank me, but I don't want to with a partner. 184 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:54.080 Is that a normal? And so you know exactly what I'm going to 185 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:56.960 say, But what is it? Yeah, of like things that are just 186 00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:00.519 like fantasies, Yeah, and you don't want to reality, you don't want 187 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:03.600 them in practice, right, And so I think that that's that's a big 188 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:09.039 part I think about like navigating kink and understanding it in a way that feels 189 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.360 good for you. It is just like sometimes things just get to be mine 190 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:16.279 and I don't have to want a partner to spank me for me to get 191 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.639 off on it or to envision it and fantasize about it, like a lot 192 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:22.919 of the stuff that I watch in porn, Like if I watch like like 193 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:28.240 a gangbang scene, like I don't particularly want that, especially like to the 194 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:33.639 like I guess roughness degree that I'll watch it sometimes and that cuts to be 195 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:35.679 for me, and then I think it just feels like precious. Well, 196 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:39.440 now it's part of your relationship with yourself, and yeah, I'm like, 197 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.320 well it's not just for me anymore. Great, so cool. But but 198 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:48.200 what we're talking about here is the fact that when you're fantasizing or when you're 199 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:52.320 watching porn, there is a level of safety that is just built into that 200 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:58.000 experience that isn't actually built into the experience of somebody actually going through the real 201 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:01.440 life thing that you're watching, right, Like, difference is consent, Yes, 202 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:03.559 the difference is consent. Yeah, when we're fantasizing about things, we're 203 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:07.559 fantasizing about them in the realm of consent. We may or may not want 204 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:09.440 to actually enact them in real life. We might just like the idea of 205 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.120 them. It sounds like this person who's talking about spanking loves the idea of 206 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.120 spanking, but when it comes to thinking about the pain that they might feel 207 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:20.000 if it happens in person, they're like, oh, not really. And 208 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.679 so many kings function that way, yeah, because it can feel also very 209 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:28.360 vulnerable to have them play out interpersonally, and it doesn't have to be what 210 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.519 that you want to engage in them in that way, and that doesn't make 211 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:35.960 them rank higher or lower on your list of desires or kinks. Everything you 212 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.600 said makes me think about how we don't really talk about how masturbation and solo 213 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:45.919 sex can be kinky. We only talk about how partnered sex can be kinky. 214 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:48.440 And I mean, that's what I'm hearing this person say, is my 215 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:52.360 solo sex life is kinky in a way that my partner sex life isn't. 216 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:54.919 You're saying the same thing. Yeah, Yeah, I wonder how many of 217 00:14:56.000 --> 00:15:00.679 us have kinkier solo sex lives and like that's kind of cool, that's hot. 218 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:07.039 Yeah, like that this person says, I'm as this woman and I 219 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.840 love having a volva, but I really enjoy picturing myself with a penis. 220 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.080 I've definitely done that before. Yeah, and then I've also wondered what does 221 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:16.080 this mean about me? Right? Like this person seems to be Yeah, 222 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:20.360 And I think it's like, in terms of picturing yourself, that that like 223 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:22.799 giving yourself a lot of permission to explore it, even if it's like getting 224 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:28.720 a harness or a strap, wondering what that would feel like. And there's 225 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:31.759 tons that could go into this. But I think also what sometimes we might 226 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:35.080 do about like with kings, is be like, where does this come from? 227 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:39.120 And how can we make sense of it? And sometimes things just are 228 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:41.960 well, that's because we've been taught that king comes from trauma. Right, 229 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:46.080 Sometimes it can, sometimes it doesn't. But when our minds immediately jumped to 230 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:50.200 what trauma caused this king, that's actually because we've been raised in a society 231 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:54.600 of king shaming. Yeah, right for sure, and fuck that and fuck 232 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:56.480 that. One thing about this I want to say is it sounds like, 233 00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:58.320 you know, this person says, I'm as this woman, I love having 234 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:02.120 a volven And I think what they're trying to emphasize here is I don't I 235 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:03.879 don't think I have dysphoria, but I don't think i'm trans. So I 236 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:10.279 think that's an important piece of this. Being trans or having dysphoria or genital 237 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:15.039 dysphoria aren't the only reasons that somebody might fantasize about being in a different body 238 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.600 or having a different body part. What does a penis represent to you? 239 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:22.480 How have you interacted with penises before? I think sometimes for me, I'm 240 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:25.960 just literally thinking out loud about this, so bear with me, But sometimes 241 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:30.399 for me, there's something about like a penis being so out there yeah, 242 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:33.879 compared to a volva. Yeah, where there's almost like a more And I 243 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:37.960 think an erection is sometimes a more tangible version of of pleasure with a penis 244 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:42.799 than a clitterists sometimes not others, But maybe there's something about that. And 245 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:48.960 I don't I don't feel genital dysphoria, but I do kind of wonder like 246 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:53.919 what could that be like if there was this more tangible form of my arousal 247 00:16:55.559 --> 00:17:00.000 and if it was more visible to my partner or if it was more accessible 248 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.320 in public. So I don't know, I think this makes total sense to 249 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:08.079 me. Okay, this person says, oh, this is my favorite I 250 00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:12.319 think since coming out, I really had a thing for redheads. Is that 251 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:18.240 okay to say? Also for doctors? Why? Camille? Why? Well, 252 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.279 I will tell you I do not know why, but I will tell 253 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.720 you that I think that it's okay to say that it's okay that you like 254 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:30.000 redheads. You heard it here first, Yes, it's okay. Tell the 255 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.920 world, Tell the world, I also have a thing for redheads. Actually 256 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:37.799 I really resonate with this. Yeahah, yeah, I think it maybe goes 257 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.279 like the parent Travel with Lindsay Lohan's my favorite movie of all time. And 258 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:44.599 I always was like, you know, like if I were white, I 259 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:47.400 would want to have red hair. I would want to be redhead. Yeah, 260 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:51.400 I just want to see that for you. Actually, one move for 261 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:55.799 you. Yeah, I was like, I would want to be markedly different. 262 00:17:56.079 --> 00:18:00.839 Also like red headed men, redheaded women. Oh what's that one lady's 263 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:07.160 name Kate Winslet, No, no, what's her name? From Molly's game 264 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:12.559 Jessica check stay hot, so hot, so hot, so hot? Oh 265 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:17.559 my god, And just as she every character she plays is hot lord. 266 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:21.440 So yes, I love I love, I love redheads as well. So 267 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:26.240 I think I'm curious about the like combination of the sense coming out. Well, 268 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:29.440 one more edgy thing I think we have to say here is that it 269 00:18:29.559 --> 00:18:32.960 is okay to be attracted to doctors. Yes for sure, Oh for sure. 270 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:41.240 Yeah. I think all of this is one thousand totally kidding. You're 271 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:47.480 like, yeah that's normal. Yeah, yeah, maybe we'll consult, okay, 272 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:49.039 but yeah, back to you, Like, Okay, actually I think 273 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:52.039 I can answer this question. Just I unlocked it. Okay, So this 274 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:57.119 person is queer, and when they thought they could only be attracted to quote 275 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:00.279 unquote the opposite sex, they weren't really attracted to members of the opposite sex 276 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:11.680 who were redheaded doctors. But they're a redheaded doctor imagined with a red redhead 277 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:14.559 with a lab coat. Yeah, I think I can picture, but they 278 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:17.400 are it. So this okay, So this actually brings up a whole other 279 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:21.599 line of thinking. There are some things in certain genders that I'm attracted to 280 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:25.200 a mat gender but no other genders, And I think that's what's happening for 281 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:30.599 this person. Reds and doctors of one gender really hot map another gender onto 282 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:33.720 it. You don't find it that hot. Yeah, that's how it works 283 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:36.440 for you. And I think we a lot of us have versions of that. 284 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:40.960 You unlocked it, thank you. So we why we do what we 285 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.240 do. This is why there's two of us. Also, I think the 286 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.720 doctor thing is just like fun and hot because it's just it's I feel like 287 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:52.240 it's a very like there's yeah, yeah, and it's a very accessible like 288 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:57.039 fantasy and the paradynamic examine I think of like the like putting a glove on 289 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:02.039 the sound of the Late Times things. I don't know, it's just I 290 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:04.839 don't know. Okay, next question, go home and do this. Yeah, 291 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:08.119 this is I mean, Lisa, what you hear me excite you. 292 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:18.079 I feel you're a little excited. Any left handed people, lefties stand up? 293 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:25.839 Okay, is it weird as a person with a vagina to not enjoy 294 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.359 receiving oral sex? If I wanted to enjoy it, how would I start? 295 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:32.880 Super? Not weird? If ever, you're asking a question about is 296 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:36.440 it weird not to enjoy X? The answer will always be no. But 297 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:38.559 it's not weird. All of us have things that we don't enjoy. Here's 298 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:41.160 the plus side. In the negative side, the plus side is we've been 299 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:45.839 putting way more emphasis lately on the clitteress, even putting way more emphasis lately 300 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:49.119 on oral sex, because clitteral stimulation is way more the way that people evolves 301 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:53.319 tend to orgasm. We know that. But I think something that's gotten lost 302 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.640 in that conversation is, and we're just talking about this on the education team, 303 00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:02.640 something that gets austense coversation is that some people actually do prefer penetrative s. 304 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:07.039 Some people actually don't want to have their clitterests touched externally. Maybe they're 305 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.960 they're sensitive when their clarterests touched externally, or maybe they're able to stay more 306 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:17.160 present during penetration because they feel that it's more mutual, or they feel like 307 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:19.880 the sensation is stronger. So there's all sorts of reasons why you might not 308 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.000 enjoy receiving oral. You know, maybe you can take this part is this 309 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:26.640 person says, well, what if I what if I did want to enjoy 310 00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:30.759 it when I start, I prefer to give oral than to receive. I 311 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.720 don't know I enjoy it though, but I think that I would just like 312 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:38.359 prefer like penetration or some other form of sex. What I have been like 313 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:44.359 working on is just like being more intentionally present during receiving oral, more deep 314 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:48.039 breaths rather than like tensing up, which I feel like I've noticed that I 315 00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:51.160 tend to do. So that's probably a big part of it. Is like 316 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:55.799 just like taking more breaths, using more of like the things that I talk 317 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:57.960 about as that they arepists all the time, so like incorporating more of like 318 00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:04.599 your senses. And also like I think being in like a sexual relationship with 319 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:08.039 someone that you can give instruction and feedback to you. So if it's like 320 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:12.359 you don't like the person putting their tongue like into your vagina, but you 321 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:18.200 would rather them focus on your clitteress than being able to say that or like 322 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.160 maybe like softer kisses, or maybe you want maybe preferred also to be fingered 323 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:26.880 as well, give direction and be like this isn't really my favorite thing, 324 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:30.480 but I want to explore it, and so can we try a few different 325 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.160 things? Yes, I think I'm similar to you. Like if I had 326 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:37.119 to choose the rest of my life without oral versus penetrative sex, I would 327 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:41.160 choose the rest of my life without oral simply because it just on its own, 328 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.759 it doesn't necessarily do anything for me. But something I've learned about myself 329 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:49.079 is if mal and I have been like cooking up for a while, there's 330 00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:53.400 been some kind of penetration, I'm really turned on. My clip is sort 331 00:22:53.440 --> 00:23:00.119 of like engorged in sensitive enough suddenly oral sex feels completely different twenty minutes they 332 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.160 experience then at the beginning, if it happened in the first minute, I'd 333 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.000 be like, I literally don't feel anything. Yeah, this feels like nothing. 334 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.319 I'm not turned on enough to not be thinking about what you're experiencing right 335 00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:11.079 now in a way that's taking me out of the moment. Twenty minutes and 336 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:15.319 I'm like, get down there. Yeah, that's a very good point, 337 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.240 like when like, let's get more in gorge to more like erect yeah, 338 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:22.359 right, exactly, more sensitive, right, like, and you know everybody 339 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:26.599 is different, but if you sort of imagined every single person with a penis 340 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.839 enjoying blow jobs before they had an erection, I don't think we would expect 341 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:33.759 that of people. And it happens, and certainly it can turn a lot 342 00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:38.359 of people on. But yeah, the clitterists operates similarly, so I think 343 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:42.039 that I think also I would be curious how this person would feel with a 344 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:48.240 sort of penetration oral combo, whether with like fingers or a toy to see 345 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.400 like if you if you combine those two things, doesn't maybe help you stay 346 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:52.920 a little bit more present or does it? Does it feel more enjoyable? 347 00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:59.279 Yeah, So more of the story like explore and play and have fun. 348 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:06.359 This one says why do I get so turned on when my male partner cries? 349 00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:11.440 I mean I get turned on by vulnerability, particularly in moments where it's 350 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:15.799 unexpected, and I think that we're socialized to not think about men as being 351 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:18.160 vulnerable in this way, and when it happens, I just wonder if you 352 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:22.720 just feel really close to him for them. For a lot of people, 353 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:26.079 closeness is a bridge to arousal. Right, And if your male partner cry 354 00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:30.799 makes you feel close to him, I mean it makes total sense to me. 355 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.720 M yeah, And I think of like, the things that sometimes turn 356 00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:37.400 us on can be like something subversive or something that's not supposed to happen. 357 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:41.200 And so when we think of hyper and toxic masculinity of man being antithetical to 358 00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:44.759 maleness, and then you're seeing like your male partner cry, it's like, 359 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:47.759 oh yeah, let me get those tears. I feel the same way. 360 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:53.279 Honestly, I resonate also potentially a man who cries openly as a man who's 361 00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:57.720 done some work. Yeah, like done some work around toxic masculinity. I 362 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:03.000 think anyone who's doing work around societal bullshit is hot. So yeah, that 363 00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:08.680 could also be part of it. I agree. Okay, what if one 364 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:14.359 of my turn ons is inconsistent with my sexual orientation. I'll start because I 365 00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:21.880 relate. I'm queer, but I am mostly attracted to women and a fab 366 00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:26.279 non binary people. That tends to be where my attraction lies. But that 367 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.920 being said, a lot of my fantasies revolve around, says straight men and 368 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:36.079 for a long time and including now sometimes it's still confusing to me about what 369 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:37.599 that's about. But and I questioned, like, what does that mean about 370 00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:41.720 me? Doesn't mean I'm by, doesn't mean whatever. It wouldn't be a 371 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.440 bad thing if it did mean I was by, But that's not what feels 372 00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:48.960 authentic to me. It actually just feels authentic that there's something about the dynamic 373 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:52.440 of that fantasy and not the gender of the fantasy, the dynamic of the 374 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.440 fantasy being some of the loaded power dynamics being that you know, for the 375 00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:00.680 first twenty two years of my life, I only was with man. I 376 00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:04.799 only had sex with men. So when I fantasize about, like certain situations 377 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.440 from when I was younger, it's just men that tend to come to mind. 378 00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:14.240 So I've been able to sort of separate my fantasies from my actual in 379 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:17.240 real life attraction, and that's been a helpful thing for me to do. 380 00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:21.880 This was an interesting question for me, I think because I am bisexual and 381 00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:26.759 I feel like I feel like I feel very a lot of freedom in that 382 00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:30.119 identity, and I'm when you were speaking, I was trying to think of 383 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:33.680 like places where I can resonate with this, and so I was thinking of 384 00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:38.000 when I was younger, maybe ten or something, or whenever I first started 385 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:41.559 watching porn, which is pretty young. I think I was only watching lesbian 386 00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:47.680 porn, and I didn't think of myself as queer at all. It's interesting, 387 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:52.079 though, because I remember my elementary school crushes and one being a girl 388 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:53.440 and one being a guy, and I think about them very clearly. I 389 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:57.240 wonder how they're doing. But if you're out there, you're out there. 390 00:26:57.319 --> 00:27:02.640 But it felt so from how I saw myself. I mean, I would 391 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:06.559 only watch lest mem porn. Only that to me feels like compulsive heteronormativity for 392 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:08.200 sure, right, Like, I'm watching this, this is the super gay 393 00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:12.440 thing to do and also definitely not me. Yeah, could never be right, 394 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:15.799 And I'm like, but again, like you know, I know a 395 00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:19.039 lot of people who are not gay, se as men who love gaze is 396 00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:22.640 male porn. Yeah, because of the dynamics present. So the porn you 397 00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:27.960 watch does not necessarily inform your sexual orientation, and sometimes it really really does, 398 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:33.359 and compet makes us tell ourselves that it doesn't. Yeah, yeah, 399 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:37.480 I mean I guess I do sometimes watch Gaze's male porn. I guess the 400 00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:41.559 thing. It's a thing a lot of lesbians do too. Yeah. Yeah, 401 00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:45.720 yeah, I'm still I'm still wrapping my head around it. It makes 402 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:48.319 sense though, I think so too. Yeah. I think it's just really 403 00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:53.160 hot, Like I just think it's really hot. You've learned a lot about 404 00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:57.440 us both today. Yes, you didn't know what you're welcoming or sorry. 405 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.640 This week's safe word is red light and it was suggested by Jay. Thanks 406 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:11.200 Jay. Safe Word is hosted by Casey Tanner and Camille Lewis and is produced 407 00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:15.200 by Coordinator at Townsend. Our theme song is written and performed by Emma Jane 408 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:18.559 and Toria Rainey. To support the show, please follow us on Spotify, 409 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:21.839 sort episodes newest to oldest, and take a moment right now to give us 410 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:26.000 five stars. We also love rave reviews on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen 411 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.960 to podcasts. Every other week we put a question box out on Instagram, 412 00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:33.799 giving you the opportunity to ask for advice on the topic at hand. To 413 00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:37.440 submit long form questions in writing or in your own voice, go to the 414 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:41.440 Safe Word pod or Queer Sex Therapy Instagram page and click on our link tree 415 00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:45.799 in the bio to write out those longer form questions. If anything today made 416 00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:49.519 you curious about seeking support, the Expansive Group has a great team of therapists 417 00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:53.720 and mentors to discuss challenges you might be facing. Go to the expansivegroup dot 418 00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:56.799 com, submit a contact form, and we'll get you connected. We'll be 419 00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:00.319 back in two weeks with a new episode of Say Right.