I'm Casey Tanner and I'm Camille Lewis. And this is safe word. Safe
Word is sex therapy unhinged because instead of being a blank slate that's just here
to support you, we're telling you the details on our own sex lives,
relationships, identities, and more. This isn't sex and it's not therapy,
but we are a sex therapists and what you here today may excite you.
Each week we tackle a theme related to sex, relationships, gender, and
more. This week we're diving into secret turn ons and guilty pleasures. Hum.
So the exciting thing about today is that we are forming interne sitting right
next to practically on top of one another, and so this is amazing.
And also that there might be some train sounds in the back because we're in
our office and there's a train that keeps running by. But so excited to
be here with you, Oh my gosh. Yeah, I feel like this
episode is going to be sillier and weirder ya because we've we've already spent like
twenty four hours together. We're already unhinged. Yeah, And I feel like
my energy is just like like I just keep pouncing on you. So all
right, so here we go. All right, what's your guilty pleasure.
I'm just gonna ask you straight up, I don't even know if I have
a guilty pleasure. You're just not guilty about your pleasure. No, no,
no, I'm not. Yeah I'm not. But I have a secret
turn and I'm randomly really attracted to left handed people. Yeah, it's like
a thing. I was on a date actually this week. This is something
I probably knew about this person, but when he went to sign the bill
with his left hand, I was like, oh my god, are you
left handed? And then you weren't sure about him, like you you ask
me how that's all the time, because I don't know why I think left
handed people are hot. I want you to just have that as like the
only line in your dating profile. Yes, I would right on somebody who
said left handed people only just simply I would need to understand that's a really
good idea. I feel like my dating profile is flat, so I'll up.
I like that. Okay. The other thing about that is, sometimes
when I'm having sex, I so wish that my other hand could do what
my right hand could do, simply because of like the angle of if I'm
like laying next to somebody. Yeah, like Mal and I will sometimes in
the middle of it literally just have to like flop over each other's body just
so that we can use our right hand. So I feel like, yah,
yeah, maybe that's part of it. I think it's like the way
that they like hold things. I don't know. I'm just like, m
like powerful, Oh my god, like you have to really figure things out,
and it's like less so like ambidexterous is also really cool. But Leslie's
I like a lefty Yeah wow, oh I was gonna share a different secret
pleasure. But you kind of have inspired me to think, do I have
a weird thing like that? And I'm realizing I'm really turned on by people
who have a lot of drug knowledge, like like like they would like drugs,
like they could babysit me on shrooms Okay, And you know, maybe
this is just like another version of a domp sub power dynamic in a way,
like I just want somebody to drug babysit me. Okay, that's really
lovely. Yeah yeah, somebody would who I would entrust to do something like
that I think would definitely be a turn on because I'd be like, wow,
I can just like I can go back into my deepest, darkest memories
and you'll still be there. Well, you know, I think both of
ours make absolute sense totally. Yeah, we can at least make sense of
each other's that's what super great questions. And y'all have fun, amazing hot
turn on lutely. I'm excited to get into these. This verse one that
kills me. Not a question, not a question, just says I'm a
bisexual bottom man. Good free Correct, you have just said some facts about
yourself. Yeah, I'm we are here agreeing and affirming, so work.
Yeah, I love it. Okay. Is it okay to get it on
in public places? Let? Yeah? Yeah, there we go, Okay.
Is it okay? Yeah? Yeah, I think it's totally okay.
Do you want to do so thoughtfully so that you don't get in trouble with
the police. But that's my only thought. People are really into exhibitionism.
I know that somebody that I'm dating really like to have like public sex.
Actually, we were in a movie theater and I was giving him head.
He doesn't really comes like last week. It was it was like a few
months ago. Did I already hear this story? No? How do I
not know that this happened. Oh I don't know. I think I'm head
in a movie theater and we had sex, like I was, oh my
god. It was during the Batman, a new Batman movie, and he
like came from head, which he usually doesn't do. So and I think,
yeah, yeah, I did one time have like full on penetrative sex
on the floor of a concert Jesse j concert. I know, I know,
three years before. How it just happened, you know, it just
it just happened. Wow, I'm impressed. I'm impressed with you. Yeah.
Wait, And another time I did have sex it is like a nightclub
in Africa that was fun. Yeah, it was like in a random bof
So this has turned into us basically saying yes, yes, it okay,
but we also participate. Yeah, but agree with you, Like, this
doesn't need to be a guilty pleasure, just a thoughtful pleasure. Who's around
you, whether it's you know, be aware of the police, but also
not everybody around you has consented to watch you have sex. So it's not
just the police, it's it's everybody around you. So can you find a
place that's in public where the chance of anyone actually seeing you is pretty much
zero. Yeah to me, that's that's ideal. Or like a public restroom,
Yeah, where you're still in a stall and nobody's going to see something
they didn't consist I've done not too fairly. Yeah, so yeah, just
be mindful. Right, Not everybody is into public sex, including the people
going to the bathroom in the stall next to you, So just be mindful.
So what are some easy ways to bring up secret turn ons and kinks
with a new partner. The more that you're integrating conversations about sex in general
in any relationship, the easier these conversations are going to be. So if
you're talking about sex in the same way that you talk about like plans for
the weekend or what you did at work, it's going to feel easier.
And to know that pretty much everyone has something that they like, and so
the more that you could talk about it and bring it to light, I
think the better it is. I'm just sharing part of me with you,
and you can model for them that they can share a similar thing with you.
Part of it is telling yourself and reminding yourself that there's nothing wrong with
your desire, and if you share a matter of factly, I think it's
like, yeah, I just kind of like to get paid on It's fine.
And then the person can be like, okay, if you're like really
important and please don't like frame it as just like they're like all right,
so like and what about you? And then they're like, oh, I
guess I like my nuts to get stumped whatever. And it's like, okay,
cool. So you say you're saying if you bring sort of a casualness
to the conversation, then people can maybe we'll tend to match that potentially,
Yeah, because everybody has something that arouses them, that makes them feel erotic.
So this is just us getting to know each other. It is one
of those moments where I'm thinking about how differently we talk about sex than anything
else. I'm of two minds here because on one hand, I'm like,
Okay, it actually makes sense to ask if somebody's in the headspace to talk
about it. It makes sense to make sure that the timing is right.
And also it sucks that this is a topic that, because of our trauma,
because of the media, has made us so activated that we need to
have that framework around it, unlike frameworks we need to have about any other
conversation. If I ask you your hobbies, it's almost like Kamil, what
are your weird hobbies? Yeah, you wouldn't be like, le, sit
down, are you okay? Yeah? Right? Hopping videos? Right?
And I would be like, I wish you would prepared me for that.
That is really activated. I have no shame. I love that about you.
But yeah, it's sort of that, the sort of like weird both
and right, it is helpful to give some space and a framework to it.
Sucks that sex is a topic in our society that requires that, but
I think it often does um And you know what, it gets easier as
you go. There may be no easy way to bring it up the first
time. It might always feel really vulnerable to bring it up the first time,
but the more you talk about it, easier it gets. I also
will stay to clients like go listen to audio erotica of people engaging in this
kink or people talking about the kink. So even just by listening to the
audio erotica of somebody talking about the kink, you're hearing it modeled for you
and the way that we almost never get to hear it and model so that
in itself can be a little bit of practice. Also yes, no,
maybe lists I bring itself like every episode they're the best. Have a piece
of paper or an app initiate the conversation for you, or sticky notes I
do, red, red, yellow, green? You will you use like
actual sticky notes? Yeah? Like I think I go down and then you
can, like then you can put them somewhere if like in like your shared
space or in your own space, and then like some things get moved over.
I love you love that because like you can just be like, oh,
this was a no, and now I'm like every time you walk by
the little board with the sticky notes, you're looking to see if anything yea,
yeah, honey, suddenly yes, I love that. So the next
question is has being sex therapists influenced your kinks? Do you still have guilty
pleasures? Why do you think? I mean, it's definitely influenced my kinks.
I think mainly because I understand so much more about what's on the menu
now than I did before. And the more I learn about what's on the
menu, the more I want it. So yeah, my kinks have grown
drastically in number I do. Unlike you, I do still have guilty pleasures,
like I have things that like I wouldn't talk about on this podcast,
and that I know I'm still like figuring out how to talk about it with
mal I think in different ways. I think that I don't think this is
actually true, but in my mind and mind of a lot of my clients,
there's this sort of I guess there's this category of kink or there's this
like part of the kink world that I think starts to give this territory that's
that feels even more shame written than some of the others. And this might
just be me projecting, but that's how I experience rains it, okay,
And when I get there, it's like even my sex therapist training can't undo
the shame. Not yet at least. I've only been a sex therapist for
a few years, so maybe ten years from now I'll be saying something different.
But yeah, I do think some shame is so deeply ingrained that no
matter how many academic texts you read or people you work with, there's had
knowledge and there's heart knowledge. And I think I am still like waiting for
my heart to catch up to some of the things I've learned as a sex
therapist around shame and kinks. So, yeah, that makes so much sense.
I mean that shame is so insidious, right, so it's like it's
going to pop up also my like where we least expect it, even if
we have like this area of knowledge and expertise. It's like, sure,
I know these things logically, but also I'm gonna get I'm gonna get the
information off Mike, like I think I would tell you, Yes, I
think I would tell you. When I think of guilty pleasures, what are
guilty pleasure? I don't know what they are. Maybe I think they're just
things that turn people on. They feel guilt that they feel bad about Okay,
they feel like they're not allowed to be turned on by um Okay,
then I had that. I think definitely with my porn watching, okay,
you're sometimes ashamed of the search turn Yeah, but like not really like I
would say it. Like let's say, like, for example, sometimes I
definitely watched like Stepdad and Daughter, like the inc I've watched that too,
or yeah, but I think that that would probably be one that people be
like, No, I don't know, but I don't know. Lately I've
been watching a lot of like two men and one woman in a threesome.
Yeah, it's like tibe vibe. Yeah, let me read the question and
then I want to I want to respond to what you just said. Yeah,
this person says, I only think about spanking fetishes when I'm alone.
My partner wants to spank me, but I don't want to with a partner.
Is that a normal? And so you know exactly what I'm going to
say, But what is it? Yeah, of like things that are just
like fantasies, Yeah, and you don't want to reality, you don't want
them in practice, right, And so I think that that's that's a big
part I think about like navigating kink and understanding it in a way that feels
good for you. It is just like sometimes things just get to be mine
and I don't have to want a partner to spank me for me to get
off on it or to envision it and fantasize about it, like a lot
of the stuff that I watch in porn, Like if I watch like like
a gangbang scene, like I don't particularly want that, especially like to the
like I guess roughness degree that I'll watch it sometimes and that cuts to be
for me, and then I think it just feels like precious. Well,
now it's part of your relationship with yourself, and yeah, I'm like,
well it's not just for me anymore. Great, so cool. But but
what we're talking about here is the fact that when you're fantasizing or when you're
watching porn, there is a level of safety that is just built into that
experience that isn't actually built into the experience of somebody actually going through the real
life thing that you're watching, right, Like, difference is consent, Yes,
the difference is consent. Yeah, when we're fantasizing about things, we're
fantasizing about them in the realm of consent. We may or may not want
to actually enact them in real life. We might just like the idea of
them. It sounds like this person who's talking about spanking loves the idea of
spanking, but when it comes to thinking about the pain that they might feel
if it happens in person, they're like, oh, not really. And
so many kings function that way, yeah, because it can feel also very
vulnerable to have them play out interpersonally, and it doesn't have to be what
that you want to engage in them in that way, and that doesn't make
them rank higher or lower on your list of desires or kinks. Everything you
said makes me think about how we don't really talk about how masturbation and solo
sex can be kinky. We only talk about how partnered sex can be kinky.
And I mean, that's what I'm hearing this person say, is my
solo sex life is kinky in a way that my partner sex life isn't.
You're saying the same thing. Yeah, Yeah, I wonder how many of
us have kinkier solo sex lives and like that's kind of cool, that's hot.
Yeah, like that this person says, I'm as this woman and I
love having a volva, but I really enjoy picturing myself with a penis.
I've definitely done that before. Yeah, and then I've also wondered what does
this mean about me? Right? Like this person seems to be Yeah,
And I think it's like, in terms of picturing yourself, that that like
giving yourself a lot of permission to explore it, even if it's like getting
a harness or a strap, wondering what that would feel like. And there's
tons that could go into this. But I think also what sometimes we might
do about like with kings, is be like, where does this come from?
And how can we make sense of it? And sometimes things just are
well, that's because we've been taught that king comes from trauma. Right,
Sometimes it can, sometimes it doesn't. But when our minds immediately jumped to
what trauma caused this king, that's actually because we've been raised in a society
of king shaming. Yeah, right for sure, and fuck that and fuck
that. One thing about this I want to say is it sounds like,
you know, this person says, I'm as this woman, I love having
a volven And I think what they're trying to emphasize here is I don't I
don't think I have dysphoria, but I don't think i'm trans. So I
think that's an important piece of this. Being trans or having dysphoria or genital
dysphoria aren't the only reasons that somebody might fantasize about being in a different body
or having a different body part. What does a penis represent to you?
How have you interacted with penises before? I think sometimes for me, I'm
just literally thinking out loud about this, so bear with me, But sometimes
for me, there's something about like a penis being so out there yeah,
compared to a volva. Yeah, where there's almost like a more And I
think an erection is sometimes a more tangible version of of pleasure with a penis
than a clitterists sometimes not others, But maybe there's something about that. And
I don't I don't feel genital dysphoria, but I do kind of wonder like
what could that be like if there was this more tangible form of my arousal
and if it was more visible to my partner or if it was more accessible
in public. So I don't know, I think this makes total sense to
me. Okay, this person says, oh, this is my favorite I
think since coming out, I really had a thing for redheads. Is that
okay to say? Also for doctors? Why? Camille? Why? Well,
I will tell you I do not know why, but I will tell
you that I think that it's okay to say that it's okay that you like
redheads. You heard it here first, Yes, it's okay. Tell the
world, Tell the world, I also have a thing for redheads. Actually
I really resonate with this. Yeahah, yeah, I think it maybe goes
like the parent Travel with Lindsay Lohan's my favorite movie of all time. And
I always was like, you know, like if I were white, I
would want to have red hair. I would want to be redhead. Yeah,
I just want to see that for you. Actually, one move for
you. Yeah, I was like, I would want to be markedly different.
Also like red headed men, redheaded women. Oh what's that one lady's
name Kate Winslet, No, no, what's her name? From Molly's game
Jessica check stay hot, so hot, so hot, so hot? Oh
my god, And just as she every character she plays is hot lord.
So yes, I love I love, I love redheads as well. So
I think I'm curious about the like combination of the sense coming out. Well,
one more edgy thing I think we have to say here is that it
is okay to be attracted to doctors. Yes for sure, Oh for sure.
Yeah. I think all of this is one thousand totally kidding. You're
like, yeah that's normal. Yeah, yeah, maybe we'll consult, okay,
but yeah, back to you, Like, Okay, actually I think
I can answer this question. Just I unlocked it. Okay, So this
person is queer, and when they thought they could only be attracted to quote
unquote the opposite sex, they weren't really attracted to members of the opposite sex
who were redheaded doctors. But they're a redheaded doctor imagined with a red redhead
with a lab coat. Yeah, I think I can picture, but they
are it. So this okay, So this actually brings up a whole other
line of thinking. There are some things in certain genders that I'm attracted to
a mat gender but no other genders, And I think that's what's happening for
this person. Reds and doctors of one gender really hot map another gender onto
it. You don't find it that hot. Yeah, that's how it works
for you. And I think we a lot of us have versions of that.
You unlocked it, thank you. So we why we do what we
do. This is why there's two of us. Also, I think the
doctor thing is just like fun and hot because it's just it's I feel like
it's a very like there's yeah, yeah, and it's a very accessible like
fantasy and the paradynamic examine I think of like the like putting a glove on
the sound of the Late Times things. I don't know, it's just I
don't know. Okay, next question, go home and do this. Yeah,
this is I mean, Lisa, what you hear me excite you.
I feel you're a little excited. Any left handed people, lefties stand up?
Okay, is it weird as a person with a vagina to not enjoy
receiving oral sex? If I wanted to enjoy it, how would I start?
Super? Not weird? If ever, you're asking a question about is
it weird not to enjoy X? The answer will always be no. But
it's not weird. All of us have things that we don't enjoy. Here's
the plus side. In the negative side, the plus side is we've been
putting way more emphasis lately on the clitteress, even putting way more emphasis lately
on oral sex, because clitteral stimulation is way more the way that people evolves
tend to orgasm. We know that. But I think something that's gotten lost
in that conversation is, and we're just talking about this on the education team,
something that gets austense coversation is that some people actually do prefer penetrative s.
Some people actually don't want to have their clitterests touched externally. Maybe they're
they're sensitive when their clarterests touched externally, or maybe they're able to stay more
present during penetration because they feel that it's more mutual, or they feel like
the sensation is stronger. So there's all sorts of reasons why you might not
enjoy receiving oral. You know, maybe you can take this part is this
person says, well, what if I what if I did want to enjoy
it when I start, I prefer to give oral than to receive. I
don't know I enjoy it though, but I think that I would just like
prefer like penetration or some other form of sex. What I have been like
working on is just like being more intentionally present during receiving oral, more deep
breaths rather than like tensing up, which I feel like I've noticed that I
tend to do. So that's probably a big part of it. Is like
just like taking more breaths, using more of like the things that I talk
about as that they arepists all the time, so like incorporating more of like
your senses. And also like I think being in like a sexual relationship with
someone that you can give instruction and feedback to you. So if it's like
you don't like the person putting their tongue like into your vagina, but you
would rather them focus on your clitteress than being able to say that or like
maybe like softer kisses, or maybe you want maybe preferred also to be fingered
as well, give direction and be like this isn't really my favorite thing,
but I want to explore it, and so can we try a few different
things? Yes, I think I'm similar to you. Like if I had
to choose the rest of my life without oral versus penetrative sex, I would
choose the rest of my life without oral simply because it just on its own,
it doesn't necessarily do anything for me. But something I've learned about myself
is if mal and I have been like cooking up for a while, there's
been some kind of penetration, I'm really turned on. My clip is sort
of like engorged in sensitive enough suddenly oral sex feels completely different twenty minutes they
experience then at the beginning, if it happened in the first minute, I'd
be like, I literally don't feel anything. Yeah, this feels like nothing.
I'm not turned on enough to not be thinking about what you're experiencing right
now in a way that's taking me out of the moment. Twenty minutes and
I'm like, get down there. Yeah, that's a very good point,
like when like, let's get more in gorge to more like erect yeah,
right, exactly, more sensitive, right, like, and you know everybody
is different, but if you sort of imagined every single person with a penis
enjoying blow jobs before they had an erection, I don't think we would expect
that of people. And it happens, and certainly it can turn a lot
of people on. But yeah, the clitterists operates similarly, so I think
that I think also I would be curious how this person would feel with a
sort of penetration oral combo, whether with like fingers or a toy to see
like if you if you combine those two things, doesn't maybe help you stay
a little bit more present or does it? Does it feel more enjoyable?
Yeah, So more of the story like explore and play and have fun.
This one says why do I get so turned on when my male partner cries?
I mean I get turned on by vulnerability, particularly in moments where it's
unexpected, and I think that we're socialized to not think about men as being
vulnerable in this way, and when it happens, I just wonder if you
just feel really close to him for them. For a lot of people,
closeness is a bridge to arousal. Right, And if your male partner cry
makes you feel close to him, I mean it makes total sense to me.
M yeah, And I think of like, the things that sometimes turn
us on can be like something subversive or something that's not supposed to happen.
And so when we think of hyper and toxic masculinity of man being antithetical to
maleness, and then you're seeing like your male partner cry, it's like,
oh yeah, let me get those tears. I feel the same way.
Honestly, I resonate also potentially a man who cries openly as a man who's
done some work. Yeah, like done some work around toxic masculinity. I
think anyone who's doing work around societal bullshit is hot. So yeah, that
could also be part of it. I agree. Okay, what if one
of my turn ons is inconsistent with my sexual orientation. I'll start because I
relate. I'm queer, but I am mostly attracted to women and a fab
non binary people. That tends to be where my attraction lies. But that
being said, a lot of my fantasies revolve around, says straight men and
for a long time and including now sometimes it's still confusing to me about what
that's about. But and I questioned, like, what does that mean about
me? Doesn't mean I'm by, doesn't mean whatever. It wouldn't be a
bad thing if it did mean I was by, But that's not what feels
authentic to me. It actually just feels authentic that there's something about the dynamic
of that fantasy and not the gender of the fantasy, the dynamic of the
fantasy being some of the loaded power dynamics being that you know, for the
first twenty two years of my life, I only was with man. I
only had sex with men. So when I fantasize about, like certain situations
from when I was younger, it's just men that tend to come to mind.
So I've been able to sort of separate my fantasies from my actual in
real life attraction, and that's been a helpful thing for me to do.
This was an interesting question for me, I think because I am bisexual and
I feel like I feel like I feel very a lot of freedom in that
identity, and I'm when you were speaking, I was trying to think of
like places where I can resonate with this, and so I was thinking of
when I was younger, maybe ten or something, or whenever I first started
watching porn, which is pretty young. I think I was only watching lesbian
porn, and I didn't think of myself as queer at all. It's interesting,
though, because I remember my elementary school crushes and one being a girl
and one being a guy, and I think about them very clearly. I
wonder how they're doing. But if you're out there, you're out there.
But it felt so from how I saw myself. I mean, I would
only watch lest mem porn. Only that to me feels like compulsive heteronormativity for
sure, right, Like, I'm watching this, this is the super gay
thing to do and also definitely not me. Yeah, could never be right,
And I'm like, but again, like you know, I know a
lot of people who are not gay, se as men who love gaze is
male porn. Yeah, because of the dynamics present. So the porn you
watch does not necessarily inform your sexual orientation, and sometimes it really really does,
and compet makes us tell ourselves that it doesn't. Yeah, yeah,
I mean I guess I do sometimes watch Gaze's male porn. I guess the
thing. It's a thing a lot of lesbians do too. Yeah. Yeah,
yeah, I'm still I'm still wrapping my head around it. It makes
sense though, I think so too. Yeah. I think it's just really
hot, Like I just think it's really hot. You've learned a lot about
us both today. Yes, you didn't know what you're welcoming or sorry.
This week's safe word is red light and it was suggested by Jay. Thanks
Jay. Safe Word is hosted by Casey Tanner and Camille Lewis and is produced
by Coordinator at Townsend. Our theme song is written and performed by Emma Jane
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back in two weeks with a new episode of Say Right.