1 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,679 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Dashinski, 2 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,519 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:24,519 --> 00:00:28,440 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr LST. 4 00:00:28,679 --> 00:00:32,320 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts, and to the premium 5 00:00:32,399 --> 00:00:36,479 version of our website as well. We're joined today by Sean Higgins sewn as 6 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:42,520 a research fellow at the Competitive Enterprise Institute specializing in labor and employment issues. 7 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,320 You can learn more about CEI over at CEI dot org. You can also 8 00:00:46,439 --> 00:00:50,600 read a recent piece of writing that Sean Road that I found very helpful called 9 00:00:50,679 --> 00:00:55,280 United Auto Workers Want a Bigger Slice of a Shrinking pie. UAW of course, 10 00:00:55,399 --> 00:00:59,200 voted to strike last night. They're on strike now, Sean. Thank 11 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,880 you for joining us for having them. Can you tell us a little bit 12 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,719 about the dynamics of the strike. I think it's something like one hundred and 13 00:01:07,719 --> 00:01:11,120 fifty thousand workers might be affected by it. My number might be off by 14 00:01:11,159 --> 00:01:14,480 that twelve plants. Can you just like kind of give us a background of 15 00:01:14,519 --> 00:01:18,719 what's basically going on here. Yeah, it's about one hundred and fifty thousand 16 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:23,760 workers at Yeah, about that many plants, and they're striking at gm Ford 17 00:01:23,879 --> 00:01:30,799 Stilantis. Combined, these three account for about forty percent of US domestic manufacturing. 18 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:38,000 Foreign plants account for the rest. There's a fair number of foreign owned 19 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:42,680 plants in the US that make foreign brand things, so we have toyotas made 20 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:47,680 in the US, and then there's a lot of those factories throughout the South. 21 00:01:47,719 --> 00:01:53,760 Those are typically not unionized. So while it's headlines may make you make 22 00:01:53,799 --> 00:01:57,159 you think the entire auto industry has walked out, in fact, it's only 23 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:02,040 about two fifths of the entire domestic manufact acturing. And the interesting thing is, 24 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:07,680 on top of that, the union is only walking out of select plants. 25 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,680 Can you tell us more about that, because that is interesting. Why 26 00:02:12,759 --> 00:02:15,879 is it only select plants? I guess that gets into also sort of the 27 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:22,759 dynamics of how they're using the strike, how they're leveraging their power. What 28 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,759 is the deal with just you know, the select plant strikes. Well, 29 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,000 the deal is they don't actually have that much leverage. I mean, they're 30 00:02:30,039 --> 00:02:31,919 trying to make it. They're trying to make as much noise as they possibly 31 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:37,599 can and make it seem as though they're doing a big walkout women or not. 32 00:02:37,759 --> 00:02:39,840 I mean historically, if you have a walkout, you have a walkouts 33 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,960 and all or nothing proposition. All the workers are out there, they're on 34 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,360 the picket line. You're trying and shut down the factories to the maximum sense 35 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,280 that you possibly can. This is why the worst solidarity is so important to 36 00:02:50,319 --> 00:02:53,560 the union movement and why they make such a big deal about it. They 37 00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:58,240 almost never do this type of piece mail strategy because that's not how strikes work. 38 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,719 That doesn't bring management to heal. The reason why they're doing it this 39 00:03:00,759 --> 00:03:06,479 way is because they just I assume the union leadership doesn't think it can sustain 40 00:03:06,479 --> 00:03:08,280 a full strike for for a long period of time, and they don't want 41 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,840 to, you know, look like they failed, So they're doing it this 42 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:15,879 way. They're trying to sell it as if it were a bold new strategy 43 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:23,879 that will maximize the disruption of the The companies don't buy that. That's just 44 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:28,599 that's just pr hype. The reality is, if you strike, you strike, 45 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:30,080 You put all your people out there, and you try and force the 46 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,879 company to shut down. You try and maximize the amount of pain that they 47 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:37,159 suffer. You don't go easy on them. Like this, like like what 48 00:03:37,199 --> 00:03:40,000 they're doing now, and they're asking for it, and you can fill in 49 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,840 some of the details. They're asking for a pretty hefty race, I think, 50 00:03:43,879 --> 00:03:50,240 like raise and a return to the old school pension system. And they're 51 00:03:50,479 --> 00:03:53,319 clearly I think you know, on the momentum of what the teamsters want with 52 00:03:53,479 --> 00:03:59,240 ups looking for something really big, looking for looking for a pretty big gain. 53 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,360 Here, what exactly are they asking for they're asking Yeah, they're asking 54 00:04:03,439 --> 00:04:11,319 for about thirty five to forty percent increase. There's we can we can very 55 00:04:11,319 --> 00:04:14,560 easily fall down the rabbit hole discussing the minutia of this type of stuff. 56 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,319 But that's that's about where it's going. The management is offering between fifteen to 57 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:23,519 twenty percent increases, and then there's also some other details. For example, 58 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:28,920 they're trying the union is demanding more stability in terms of workers being shifted from 59 00:04:28,959 --> 00:04:33,800 one factory to the next, because as we're making this transition to electric electric 60 00:04:33,879 --> 00:04:39,759 vehicles that there has to be some changes related to that. For example, 61 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,639 most of the batteries for the electric vehicles will be manufactured at factories elsewhere than 62 00:04:44,879 --> 00:04:48,839 where the chases of the cars is made. So and they're trying to brend 63 00:04:48,879 --> 00:04:53,480 that because a lot of those factories are in the South and they're not unionized, 64 00:04:53,639 --> 00:04:56,920 and even if they're in a Southern state, they may be subject therefore 65 00:04:56,959 --> 00:05:00,920 the right to work laws, which which could potentially hurt the unions obviously trying 66 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,879 to prevent that as well. So that would be like Tesla, Okay, 67 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:11,160 and the other. I'm actually really intrigued by the situation with the electric vehicles 68 00:05:11,199 --> 00:05:15,560 because UAW United Auto Workers is obviously a very interesting union. The relationship with 69 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,800 the Democratic parties as as cozy as anyone would expect from you the last several 70 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:26,199 decades of union history, and a lot of this is being pushed on workers 71 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,160 and on the plants by Biden administration policies. And I wrong about that is 72 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,480 the sort of the subsidies that have been handed out is one of the things 73 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:39,480 that's moving these the Big Three along towards electric vehicle manufacturing. Electric cars are 74 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,560 cheaper to make, require less labor, and so you have these union workers 75 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,720 who may you know, personally support Trump or whatever, but their union supports 76 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:54,279 Biden in a squeeze because of Biden administration policies. Yeah, I mean, 77 00:05:54,439 --> 00:06:00,480 it's it gets very it gets very complicated, very easily, because this stuff 78 00:06:00,519 --> 00:06:03,680 seems illogical or counterintuitive. I mean, like, yeah, why would the 79 00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:11,399 union supports as they publicly are supporting this transition to electric vehicles when that's going 80 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,480 to mean fewer union jobs? And there's a lot of reasons for that, 81 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,399 but the bottom line reason for it is that the the UAW just isn't as 82 00:06:17,439 --> 00:06:21,839 strong as it used debate and again, it only represents about forty percent of 83 00:06:24,319 --> 00:06:30,439 It only represents about forty percent of those workers, and they're not really in 84 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,720 a position to say no to this. There's also the fact that the union 85 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,240 movement is tied to a lot of the other sort of liberal progressive movements who 86 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:41,360 are all very much in favor of the environmentalist message, so they get sort 87 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,680 of dragged along by that as well. Then there's the concern that over in 88 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,839 the longer term, these ev vehicles will actually replace most traditional gas power of 89 00:06:49,959 --> 00:06:55,839 vehicles, So they don't get in early, they may they may hurt themselves 90 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,439 in the longer run by not by not getting getting in part of part of 91 00:06:59,439 --> 00:07:02,240 that. So a big part of this is trying to sort of get the 92 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:09,199 administration to cushing the blow to the unions in terms of what has happened, 93 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,560 what's happening. So therefore we see all the sort of subsidies that Biden administration 94 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:20,439 as offered to the vehicles I mean traditionally, I mean company companies make these 95 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,879 make these type of changes when they see the long term financial advantages of this. 96 00:07:25,519 --> 00:07:29,480 And for all the benefits of electronic vehicles, absent a lot of this 97 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,959 sort of benefits from the federal government, the advantages aren't there. They wouldn't 98 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,279 automatically or normally make this transition. Would still be a sort of boutique project 99 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:42,639 for for the wealthy or the sort of environmentally minded. It wouldn't be something 100 00:07:42,639 --> 00:07:46,800 that the average Joe and Jane six pack would would want to drive. But 101 00:07:46,839 --> 00:07:49,120 they don't. But they but they feel as other being pushed alone to that. 102 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:54,560 And yeah, this and this is one of the things that Sean Fayne, 103 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,120 the leader of the UAW, is very mindful of, is that this 104 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,160 probably are a lot of the workers are saying, this is not actually good 105 00:08:00,199 --> 00:08:01,560 deal for us. Why are you going along with this? And he has 106 00:08:01,639 --> 00:08:05,360 to sort of maintain a control over the union and deal with us as best 107 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:11,240 you can. And so he's juggling a bunch of different balls at the same 108 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,040 time and trying to sort of reconcile all these conflicting problems they are having. 109 00:08:15,879 --> 00:08:20,120 Yeah, and he's been, you know, predictably on CNN with Chick Tapper 110 00:08:20,199 --> 00:08:24,079 and other places. He's he's definitely leaning into a high profile role in all 111 00:08:24,079 --> 00:08:28,959 of this, and he's how do the UAW after two of his predecessors were 112 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:33,080 imprisoned in corruption scandals? Can you talk a little bit about Fine as a 113 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:37,000 leader of the UAW in the shadow of you know, pretty typical like union 114 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,960 corruption scandals that enveloped the UAW that he's basically as a whole he's had to 115 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,000 dig out of. What does that look like internally for them? Yeah, 116 00:08:46,039 --> 00:08:50,879 I mean I've been covering I've been sort of looking at the automole fuel industry 117 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,919 going back to the two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine the bankrupt 118 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,960 in your bankruptcy they had and one of the striking things about that was was 119 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,720 you looked at the congressional hearings at the time of the u W came out 120 00:09:00,759 --> 00:09:03,480 and was very much went to bat for the manufacturers in terms of getting the 121 00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:09,639 bailout. It's a very cozy relationship they've had over the last several decades between 122 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:15,720 the Big three quote unquote Detroit Manufacturers and the union. And that corruption, 123 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,919 as you say, you know, fed into the problem of his veins on 124 00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:24,360 two predecessors who were colluding with some of the companies to rip off group off 125 00:09:24,399 --> 00:09:31,879 the members for themselves. And one of the results of those corruption investigations, 126 00:09:31,879 --> 00:09:35,600 which were by a Justice department, was a reform of the way the union 127 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:41,080 alexus members and that was how Faint Fain got involved. Previously, they had 128 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,960 this system where it was almost kind of closed off to the rank and file 129 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,960 members as to who actually the leadership was. It was really undemocratic and unfair, 130 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,120 and Fain was sort of the protest candid who got in as a result 131 00:09:52,159 --> 00:09:56,480 of these changes. But that creates some problems on pressure for him. For 132 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,000 one thing, he doesn't have the full support of the rank and file behind 133 00:09:58,039 --> 00:10:03,039 him to start with you narrowly one. And he also has to show that 134 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:09,240 he's not the corrupt, old old school guide that they've had previously, and 135 00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:11,200 so that's part of the reason why he's making the sort of confrontational stance with 136 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:16,879 the unions. With the management. I should say he's broken some of the 137 00:10:16,879 --> 00:10:20,799 traditions they have where they have handshake, starts off and you know, they 138 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,440 all we're all in the same boat type type things. He's no, he's 139 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,039 trying to be more sort of punk rock about it, for lack of a 140 00:10:28,039 --> 00:10:33,159 better phrase I can think of. And he has to show that he's not 141 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,440 he's not sort of corrupt, and he's not in their pocket the way they 142 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,879 used to. And that's part of the reason why I think he's leading this 143 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,960 sort of limited walkout is he's trying to send the message I'm not part of 144 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,600 this old school that we've had. I'm different and I'm more I'm confronting them 145 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,879 more often, while at the same time not actually trying to have a you 146 00:10:52,879 --> 00:10:56,960 know, the sort of screaming confrontation you have with a full complete walkout, 147 00:10:56,639 --> 00:11:01,759 because he knows that that's actually good backfire on badly if if you lost, 148 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:03,240 if you lost the fight with management, he doesn't want to push it too 149 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,559 hard. So this sort of limited walkout they have where they're just sort of 150 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,399 doing a piecemeal at different plants, is his way of making a look as 151 00:11:09,399 --> 00:11:13,120 though he's doing a lot of stuff to shake up the status quo without actually 152 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:18,679 shaking it up that much. There's a just I'm sort of baffled with how 153 00:11:20,159 --> 00:11:24,799 the Biden administration. You aws, fairly powerful lobby in Washington, probably not 154 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,000 as powerful. You would know this better than I do show, Probably not 155 00:11:28,159 --> 00:11:31,080 nearly as powerful as it used to be. But all of these these subsidies 156 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,200 that the Biden administration has passed, all these policies, regulations the Biden administration 157 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:41,919 has passed, why is it that the union lobby wasn't strong enough to resist 158 00:11:41,919 --> 00:11:43,519 it? Were they even trying to resist it? It's that new kind of 159 00:11:43,639 --> 00:11:52,279 mingling of ESG versus blue collar priorities and some of these old democratic leftist institutions 160 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,120 that on the one hand want to support you sort of blue collar labor, 161 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,440 but then on the other hand, support priorities that are in conflict with a 162 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:03,279 lot of blue collar people's personal ideologies and maybe even the fortunes when you know 163 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:05,360 things like this are on the line. How do we how do we how 164 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,879 should we understand? How do we explain the reality that the Biden administration did 165 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:15,240 some things that actually cut against what they see and what Joe Biden certainly would 166 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:20,000 say he sees as a core constituency Boe Biden is big on sort of There's 167 00:12:20,039 --> 00:12:24,519 there's this image of of unions as being the sort of blue collar institution that 168 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:30,000 Biden himself is very much played up. The reality of it is, well, 169 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,600 that was true in the mid twentieth century. It's no longer true today. 170 00:12:33,799 --> 00:12:37,960 You know, the manufacturing sector, the unionization of that has declined. 171 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:43,159 As they said, the automakers only represent forty percent of domestic manufacturing. That 172 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:48,120 would have been unthinkable back in the twentieth century. The union movement today is 173 00:12:48,759 --> 00:12:54,720 largely a public sector you know, the government unions, and a lot of 174 00:12:54,759 --> 00:13:01,279 this largely the sort of more of the service industry, and these manufacturing sector 175 00:13:01,399 --> 00:13:05,279 unions just don't have the clout within the union movement that they used to and 176 00:13:05,759 --> 00:13:09,600 for a lot of these other ones, I mean there again, they're also 177 00:13:09,799 --> 00:13:11,480 in. The other issue is that they're also much more closely tied with the 178 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:18,559 union with other liberal movements, so they have The essence is that these sort 179 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,840 of the old sector manufacturing unions tend to get pulled along and swept along with 180 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,320 these sort of other other changes, and they don't have the strength institutionally to 181 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,240 withstand the others, so they have to sort of go along and get along. 182 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,000 You've seen this, for example with the United mind Workers, which is 183 00:13:33,039 --> 00:13:39,840 basically almost negotiating itself out of existence, and the you know, the Detroit 184 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,159 manufacturers are having the same problem. The difference is that there's other plants that 185 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:48,480 they could organize, and they've tried to do that. They made major efforts 186 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,960 to try and get plants in the South on their side. They just haven't 187 00:13:52,039 --> 00:13:54,720 had a whole lot of success. One of the problems that the manufacturing sector 188 00:13:54,799 --> 00:14:00,200 of the units had is that they win decades without having to seriously attend to 189 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:05,679 organize new and emerging in new and emerging companies because they were just so dominant 190 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,919 on the ones that were the companies that are already dominant, and they basically 191 00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:16,039 got bad at rank and follow organizing and they still are and this has really 192 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,720 come around hurt them in the recent decades as the companies that they maintained that 193 00:14:20,879 --> 00:14:26,279 they that they still represent and where the basis of their strength have themselves declined, 194 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,919 and as they've declined, unions have declined with them. So it's a 195 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,200 long winded way of saying the reason why this pressure is on these unions when 196 00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:37,960 you think it wouldn't be is because they represent a much smaller part of the 197 00:14:39,039 --> 00:14:41,279 union movement than they did previously. It's no longer a union movement, is 198 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:46,000 no longer a sort of blue collar manufacturing haart hat wearing your uncle and your 199 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:54,320 your grandfather type of business. It's very much a sort of young woke phenomenon 200 00:14:54,879 --> 00:14:58,320 that you know you see in contemporary world. And these just sort of these 201 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:03,720 are just of the older scheme. The nerkings dragged along with this new part 202 00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:11,960 of movement. Hey y'all, this is Sarah Carter, investigative columnist and host 203 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:16,000 of The Sarah Carter Show. 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It's effective and clinically 212 00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:54,679 studied. Super Beats is the number one pharmacist recommended beat brand for cardiovascular health 213 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,320 support. It's blood pressure support you can trust. Get a free thirty day 214 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:03,360 supply of super Beats heart Us and fifteen percent off your first order by going 215 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,720 to get Superbeats dot com and use promo code Sarah. That's Saar. Get 216 00:16:07,919 --> 00:16:12,960 Superbeats dot com code Sarah to get fifteen percent off your first order. Get 217 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:22,519 Superbeats dot Com promo code Sarah. And you know, that's a really interesting 218 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,720 transition into the question of like the looming rider skilled strike, which has been 219 00:16:26,759 --> 00:16:30,279 going on for a really long time. Talk about a more white collar, 220 00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:36,159 more young, more woke union. They also are they have this there's a 221 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:41,840 parallel I guess demand or at least ambition that you kind of have. They 222 00:16:41,919 --> 00:16:47,000 compare it to gig work that you know, the the new like way that 223 00:16:47,159 --> 00:16:49,240 riders make a living is sort of hopping from gig to gig. In the 224 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,879 streaming universe, where there are hundreds of shows that are being broadcast at year. 225 00:16:53,039 --> 00:16:56,279 Some make it, some whether on the vine, and so they're just 226 00:16:56,399 --> 00:16:59,639 like popping into different rooms as opposed to working with a team over a course 227 00:16:59,679 --> 00:17:03,039 of years and having uh, you know, benefits package with a company. 228 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,799 They feel like they're just doing the uber driving version of writing. And on 229 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,880 the other hand, you have the UAW workers looking for a return to the 230 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,039 whole depension system, something that makes them feel a little bit more stable, 231 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:21,680 a bit more comfortable in their job. How do declines in those old kind 232 00:17:21,759 --> 00:17:25,119 of systems. Maybe some that change because of technology, maybe some that change 233 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:26,880 because of what you just said. The unions are less powerful than they used 234 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,759 to be and haven't been organizing to their workers and benefit in recent years. 235 00:17:32,279 --> 00:17:37,720 Has that eaten away at the way some of these workers actually are compensated. 236 00:17:37,839 --> 00:17:41,680 What is their kind of case. Well, in the case of the like 237 00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:48,039 these sort of manufacturing sector, these are good jobs if you can get them. 238 00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:51,400 The problem is that the jobs, the jobs themselves are shrinking. I 239 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,240 mean there's just more and more places where they're they're automating, whether they're shifting 240 00:17:56,319 --> 00:18:00,160 away, and the jobs are vanishing. And so is a lot of When 241 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,240 they had the two thousand and eight two thousand and nine issue one of the 242 00:18:03,279 --> 00:18:07,440 things that they did was they protected the existing members, but created a new 243 00:18:07,519 --> 00:18:12,599 system that kind of screwed the younger incoming members of the union, so they 244 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:18,880 weren't getting as good at pay and benefits as the older established ones because they 245 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,079 hadn't get joined up at the time, so they were easy to sort of 246 00:18:22,279 --> 00:18:27,079 make the one's tap to take this short end of the stake basically. And 247 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,799 the part of this fight now is actually an attempt to sort of walk back 248 00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:34,440 some of those changes too, because the unions realize that that's made these jobs 249 00:18:34,519 --> 00:18:38,160 even less attractive to people in terms of the question of things like the Writers 250 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:44,000 Guild and all these sort of other newer things. You know, the union 251 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,680 union movement is a broad and vast thing, and there's a lot of it 252 00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:52,240 covers all sorts of the different things. The California Writers and Actors Guild strike 253 00:18:52,359 --> 00:19:00,279 is very interesting because this was once a very lucrative field that could sustain a 254 00:19:00,279 --> 00:19:03,480 lot of things, and it has markedly changed over the last decade. Largely 255 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,640 there's a consequence of technology. I mean, streaming just didn't exist. Binge 256 00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:12,440 watching your favorite show didn't exist a decade ago. Even though theoretic if you 257 00:19:12,519 --> 00:19:15,839 think about it, like when they started to making the home video revolution happened 258 00:19:15,839 --> 00:19:18,960 in the eighties, It could have happened then. It's just literally nobody realized 259 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,279 that people would be willing to sort of watch and consume programming in this way, 260 00:19:22,319 --> 00:19:26,400 and there was only sort of more recently that they realized that. But 261 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:33,720 the change of that means that a typical television season in the eighties or nineties 262 00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:37,279 was like twenty six episodes, and if you were like a dramatic series that 263 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,160 was like an hour long episode, that was the functional colon of doing something 264 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,839 like, you know, twelve movies a year, feature length films. Nowadays, 265 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,680 the average streaming season has just thirteen episodes, and they're usually about half 266 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,920 an hour or forty five minutes. There's a drastic just cut down in the 267 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,440 sheer amount of the sheer amount of product that's being put out, and as 268 00:19:56,519 --> 00:20:00,960 a consequence, they're just working a lot less than the you Too. And 269 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,440 the problem that these sort of newer unions have is they only just sort of 270 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:11,680 recently realize this change and they're trying to demand changes to the studio system that 271 00:20:11,799 --> 00:20:15,160 doing that, for example, like literally requiring them to hire more writers for 272 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,039 shows even if they don't have work for them. And that's going to be 273 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,960 really interesting to see how this plays out, because there really isn't an obvious 274 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,240 solution to how it's being done. I have a family member who is a 275 00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:33,720 Screen Actors Guild member, and I was talking to him recently, and he's 276 00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:38,400 lucky because he's seventy one then semi retired, so it just doesn't it doesn't 277 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,039 have mattered him as much. But he was like quite candid with me. 278 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,519 It's like, I don't know how we square the circle or solve the problem. 279 00:20:45,079 --> 00:20:48,279 We're just going to have to actually, you know, they're probably just 280 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,400 going to have to accept less. And that's the reality of the situation. 281 00:20:52,799 --> 00:20:56,880 And again, a sort of long witted to answer to your question, but 282 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:02,960 the answer is that I think this the union movement covers all sorts of different 283 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,759 sectors of the economy, all of which have different issues and problems of their 284 00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:12,440 own, and there isn't any sort of obvious or simple solution that cuts across 285 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:18,279 all of them. In a sense, are they, especially with the UAW 286 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,960 you talk about the slice of a shrinking pie, are they in some ways 287 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,839 accelerating their own demise by the strike is this is this maybe in the long 288 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:32,119 term counterproductive? Do you think it is? And I think that that's why 289 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,799 they're doing in such a limited fashion. They don't actually want to have a 290 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:41,880 serious strike that shuts down all the manufacturers that wants because that just means that 291 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,279 they'll see more. The'll end up those factories will have to see more to 292 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:51,440 the to the foreign US may US built competition. In other words, for 293 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:55,240 and GM will lose out more to Toyota, Volkswagen if they do that. 294 00:21:55,799 --> 00:22:00,160 And that's very much I think on Fain's mind and the others in the UAE 295 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,359 as they do this is we can't actually hurt our management too much because they 296 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,200 might not be able to come back. I mean that was in the old 297 00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:11,000 days they could always sort of rely on the US manufacturers to bounce back over 298 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,880 time. They can't count on that anymore. It's on them to try and 299 00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:18,480 organize these new these new factories. But they haven't been able to do that 300 00:22:18,559 --> 00:22:22,160 either. And on top of that, most of the factors are located and 301 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,279 right to work states, So if they didn't organize them, they'd still be 302 00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:29,799 They still have the problem that the individual workers would be able to opt out 303 00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:33,400 if they wanted to, so they still wouldn't be as strong. So yeah, 304 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:41,640 they're they It's it's an existential problem that the union has where all these 305 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,599 sort of things that they've relied on for so long are fading away and they 306 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:52,599 don't really have a strong or easy solutions to get rounded. The problem of 307 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,119 real wagers is a very serious one for a lot of people around the country, 308 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,000 and it just it's hard not to, you know, I think that 309 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,920 the Adam ruins everyone ever everything. Guy Adam Conover has been on CNN talking 310 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:14,119 about, like David zass Labs compensation packages, and when workers or Seawan Faine 311 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:19,880 goes and tells Jake Tapper about the you know, skyrocketing compensation of people at 312 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,119 the Big Three, of executives at the Big Three, it is hard not 313 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,279 to look at that and sometimes say that is they do have a little bit 314 00:23:29,319 --> 00:23:30,759 more money they could be tossing to the workers. That's sort of the purpose 315 00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:36,079 of collective bargaining in the kind of ecosystem of how all of this works. 316 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,359 But at the same time they are I mean, the uaw's concessions were, 317 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:45,039 as you mentioned earlier, some like twelve fifteen percent raised they will get something 318 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,039 out of this right at the end of the day. Oh yeah, I 319 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,519 mean, as I said, the managers are offering them up to twenty percent 320 00:23:51,599 --> 00:23:55,240 increases right now and some of the changes. I mean, they're willing to 321 00:23:55,319 --> 00:24:00,240 deal. They're willing to offer more, and I think I don't know exactly 322 00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:08,319 how well that would part inflation we're seeing. I'm not that I'm not that 323 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,920 good of an economist, but certainly it will, it will go a long 324 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,200 way towards doing that. So there, I mean, management, management is 325 00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:21,599 trying to to to placate them, and they know that the workers need more, 326 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,000 but they are any difficult, difficult position themselves. They're trying to they're 327 00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:30,400 trying to transition, initition to be having heavy competition. They're trying to transition 328 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:37,160 to creating entirely new vehicles for which there isn't actually a clear benefit that this 329 00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:41,079 will this will work financially in the long run. And so they're like, 330 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,640 well, you know, when you expect from us, you know we can't. 331 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,279 We can't. For all the claims that they're fat, they're fat and 332 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,680 happy, and certainly, I mean, the companies shoot themselves in the foot 333 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,839 with these sort of executive compensation packages because it always relies such an easy and 334 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:02,039 read ready talking point for you decides to use. And I don't actually support 335 00:25:02,079 --> 00:25:04,279 these type of things. I think basically, if you were a shareholders, 336 00:25:04,279 --> 00:25:10,400 you should you should be able to shareholders should themselves, uh, you know, 337 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,559 hold the executive speak to the fire this much and not pay them as 338 00:25:12,559 --> 00:25:17,720 well because they a lot of times they don't actually earn it. That said, 339 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,160 it's even if they if they were to switch that off tomorrow, it 340 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,720 still wouldn't change the fundamental economic realities that these they are basic. It wouldn't 341 00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:30,880 change how much you know, the unions were I mean, would it would 342 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,799 address, like, you know, the salaries of a couple of of some 343 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,079 some of the workers. But not by any stretch of the imagination. If 344 00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:41,000 you were cut the executive compensation significantly, would you be able to provide enough 345 00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:48,519 money to meet the unions demands? And that's the issue m and the question 346 00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:52,960 of longevity for the UAW, especially as the Writer's Guild strike you know, 347 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:59,880 goes into your period of months with no end in sight. How long I've 348 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,880 I've actually heard some analysts say maybe the Big three are going to be happy 349 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,119 to have some time to get rid of their surplus stock that's built up in 350 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,000 recent years with the pandemic economy. How long do you do you think that 351 00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:15,519 this particular strike can last. We're in the first like twelve hours of it 352 00:26:15,599 --> 00:26:19,200 as we talk right now, but how much longer could this go? Get 353 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,920 to your point, which is a good one, which is the manufacturers might 354 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,920 actually welcome a break because it would mean that the dealerships will be able to 355 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,480 clear their lots of a lot of the cars. Another interesting factor about this 356 00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:33,880 is the dealerships, contrary with some think, aren't actually owned by the manufacturers. 357 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,839 They're separate companies that just have a deal to sell the cars. So 358 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,000 for the dealerships, a break is actually a good thing because it means they 359 00:26:42,039 --> 00:26:45,359 can clear clear their lots, and they make most of their money from servicing 360 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:51,319 cars, not selling them anyway. So the unions are unions at least the 361 00:26:51,319 --> 00:26:55,680 auto unions aren't in a particularly strong position on this. My suspicion is, 362 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,839 and I mean, I hate to make predictions because you usually usually get them 363 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,359 wrong, but put a gun into my head and I'll say this will probably 364 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,960 go on for a couple of weeks. Management will make some sort of offer 365 00:27:08,319 --> 00:27:11,279 that the union will take us to some sort of face saving thing and claim 366 00:27:11,319 --> 00:27:15,680 that they got a better deal than they would have otherwise, and it'll be 367 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,400 marginally better than what the management is offering right now, and the unions will 368 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:25,400 take that and go home. And more broadly, do you, like, 369 00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:27,519 do you have an estimate of how this might a rough estment of how this 370 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:33,279 might affect the economy in general? I know that's hard to say, but 371 00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:36,640 if it goes on for a couple of weeks, we're kind of ripple effect. 372 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,119 Could people expect it'll be marginal? The UPS thing was a much bigger 373 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,519 deal because that was there was the threat of an imminent break in the supply 374 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,799 chain, which would mean that grocery store shelves would be unstopped, manufacturers would 375 00:27:49,799 --> 00:27:52,680 be short on we're all materials and that type of stuff, and those things 376 00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:57,880 would immediately shut down at breaking. Car manufacturing, as we just discussed, 377 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,359 isn't isn't going to have an immediate effect on the economy because most people don't 378 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,920 need new cars immediately. In fact, you can go several weeks or months 379 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,279 before you start seeing that as an impact on the broader economy. A lot 380 00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:18,000 of people further down in the sort of food chain on this aren't impacted by 381 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,680 it either. As I said, you know, dealerships, they can clear 382 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,240 their lots. They make most of the money from selling the cars. People 383 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,519 will simply just drive used cars around for a little while longer. That's not 384 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,359 going to have a huge impact on the economy, not immediately, not the 385 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:36,000 way suddenly the grocery store shelf being being empty would have had. And that 386 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:41,400 was why the teamsters were in a much better position in that strike than the 387 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,839 UAW is in this strike. They had a serious boor else that they could 388 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:51,599 hammer down on both the main management and both and on the national economy. 389 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,039 It's like, we can, we can cause some serious damage if you guys 390 00:28:53,079 --> 00:28:56,720 don't give it in the door demands, And that worked out for them. 391 00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:03,519 UAW just doesn't have that boor else quality to agree the Watchdoldom Wall Street podcast 392 00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:07,480 with Chris Markowski every day. Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the 393 00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:11,039 economy and how it affects your wallet. Ever heard of goldilocks? Remember, 394 00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:15,000 bad news is not good news, no matter what they claim to say about 395 00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:21,079 biodynamics. Unemployment is still rising, wages remain stagnant, and job numbers are 396 00:29:21,119 --> 00:29:23,920 now revised. There's still no soft landing with this plane. Whether it's happening 397 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,880 in DC or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. Be informed. 398 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,480 Check out the watchdoldown Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski on Apples, Spotify 399 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:36,920 or wherever you get your podcast. And then just you know, as we're 400 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,480 wrapping here, I want to ask about the thirty thousand foot level. As 401 00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:41,519 somebody who's covered this for years, it seems to me a lot of right 402 00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:45,000 to work laws were passed in the aftermath actually of the Great Recessions or the 403 00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:48,240 Tea Party years that a lot of those right to work laws went in place. 404 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,000 I could be wrong on that, correct me if I have, but 405 00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:56,039 there was there was something about public opinion on unions that was very different than 406 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:02,640 than it is now. Where you have this the public up unions and the 407 00:30:02,759 --> 00:30:10,279 labor movement increasing, the favorability increasing to some people will call it record levels, 408 00:30:10,319 --> 00:30:14,000 but at least in recent history, people are more favorable to unions than 409 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,319 we're in the past. There's a tight labor market. We have seen a 410 00:30:15,359 --> 00:30:21,200 lot of strikes. Looks like we might get Airline of flight attendant strikes in 411 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,559 the near future. There's just a lot of stuff going on in the space. 412 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,599 Is this a renaissance for the labor movement or is it something that maybe 413 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,279 looks like a renaissance but is again across the board a shrinking pie it is, 414 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,359 it's maybe a death rattle if anything. Well, in terms of the 415 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,079 right to work laws, those are actually tend to be very popular with the 416 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,160 rank and file members. It's leadership to dates. I mean right to work 417 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,079 laws just literally more rights for the workers and in the right for them to 418 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,680 say no, to sustay note to the leadership of their own unions, and 419 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,240 to walk away from that. The attempts to sort of get rid of these 420 00:30:56,279 --> 00:31:00,640 things are basically to give the union leadership more opportunity, more power to say 421 00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:03,039 the workers, hey, shut up and get in line the corrupt union leadership 422 00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:06,799 in the case of the UAW in Michigan. When I think right the work 423 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,359 was classed one twenty thirteen, twenty twelve, yeah, I mean a lot 424 00:31:11,359 --> 00:31:14,880 of has happened in the wake also some of these corruption things. But as 425 00:31:15,119 --> 00:31:18,920 one line union organizer told me, as soon as you start actually talking about 426 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,920 what a right to work law is too specifically is to an actual union member, 427 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,240 they start to think it's a good idea. So I don't I don't 428 00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:32,759 see the success of the right to work laws as necessarily being contradicted by also 429 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,279 a general's increase in the support of unions as an idea. We do have 430 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,759 an incredibly tight labor market, we do have changes in the way a lot 431 00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:47,119 of businesses are being operated that that's that's happening to people, and people are 432 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,039 seeing that the unions do have some power to demand that a better paying, 433 00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:56,839 better conditions, So that's so that has increased their opinion. The other thing 434 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,640 is a lot of people don't actually belong to union members themselves in themselves, 435 00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:04,880 so what they hear is, you know, the theoretical advantages of being in 436 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,480 the union, and that sounds like a good idea, but they don't have 437 00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:12,519 the actual experience. I mean, people in previous decades, they had a 438 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,759 sibling or a parent or an uncle or an aunt or somebody like that who 439 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,480 was in the union and would tell them stories about what was actually like. 440 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,440 They'll form their opinions based on that. Right now, a lot of people 441 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:30,400 are just hearing the sort of positive pr from unions and liberal breaking groups that 442 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,160 are favorable to unions, a spredence idea, and since they don't have any 443 00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:37,480 experience with them, experience with themselves, Like all of this sounds like a 444 00:32:37,559 --> 00:32:42,319 really good idea, and you know it's not necessarily a bad idea. I 445 00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:45,880 mean, certain places could actually benefit from from giving workers more organization and more 446 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,960 power to demand more from At the same time, I think it should be 447 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,200 coupled with more freedom for the workers to meet this decision on their own. 448 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,720 Problem we have with a lot of the stuff is just trying to force you 449 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,839 workers into this without them sort of having a full understanding of what the rights 450 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:06,079 and the benefits and the responsibilities of you. You don't have to be But 451 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,960 that's another discussion. Maybe a poetic justice if the right to work laws in 452 00:33:12,079 --> 00:33:15,440 Michigan make Sean Fayne hold a speak to the fire and make him be a 453 00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:17,759 better leader than than anyone would have been the past for the workers. I 454 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:23,599 believe they actually rolled it back in the time, so I double check that, 455 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,759 but it was, yeah, it was one of the one of the 456 00:33:25,839 --> 00:33:30,720 states that had at I believe it was. Michigan doesn't have it anymore. 457 00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:36,720 They were able to do that that way. So yeah, so it's you 458 00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:40,400 know, the pendulum swings back and forth and as it always will and always 459 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,640 will continue. Sean Higgins is a research fellow ever at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. 460 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,480 You can read his recent article on this over at CEI dot orging Fallow 461 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,160 all of his work and all of the work that CEI does over at CEI 462 00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:57,240 dot org. Sean, thank you so much for joining us. All Right, 463 00:33:57,279 --> 00:34:00,440 you've been listening to another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily 464 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,000 Jasinski, culture editor here at the Federalists. Will be back soon with more. 465 00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:15,280 Until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray. Heard 466 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:21,599 the fame voice the reason, and then it faded away.