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Live. Patrick Henningson and TNT all, Right, here we go. Here
we go, our number two of this live broadcast. Here TNT Today's News
Talk. Patrick Kenningson, you're with us. Glad to have you with us
here on Monday. No shortage of action over the weekend. World War three
pretty much began or almost broke out. Sort of did broke out, depends
on where you think we are on the escalation ladder. That's what we're talking
about today. So we've been bringing on some of the more i would say
cogent experts on this, Tony Gosling of course, being one of them.
He's been living and breathing and sleeping this subject for a very very long time,
so obviously he's somebody we want to be talking to right now to look
at all the various angles of this. But over in the US, unfortunately,
the conversation is a little bit more let's say, grade school level.
If you tune in too especially, I mean, I'm going to pick on
the conservative media because when it comes to foreign policy. I find the conservative
media, in the right wing media in America to be pretty much vacant,
totally out to lunch, and rarely, if at all, tethered to reality.
And this is no different here on Monday. So if you survey the
punditry or the so called experts, foreign policy extra John Bolton is all over
the news, of course, screaming and breathing fire, saying Israel needs to
attack, we need to escalate, we need more war. So the hawks
are all out and the talking point is Biden's week. Trump was even selling
this one, which is Biden's to blame for the Iranian attack on Israel.
Because of Biden's weakness, it emboldened the Mullahs in Iran to attack the Israelis.
No, they didn't. The reason the US decided to attack Israel's because
Israel blew up an embassy, an Iranian embassy in Damascus. Not to mention
the genocide that's happened over the last six months, I mean, have we
forgotten about that? You got to kind of remind that to the right wingers
in America, of course. I mean I'm often called a conservative. I
mean I don't wear my party membership card on my lapal like some people do.
But people who follow my politics over the last ten years or whatever,
you sort of know where I'm at based on who I'm supporting, who I'm
attacking, and which policies I'm championing which ones I'm not. I will say
that the current Democrat Republican structure right now does not cater towards common sense foreign
policy. So I'm posing the two party duopoly at the moment and looking for
a candidate that represents the views of the American people. Is that too much
to ask? And I'm confused as to where Donald Trump biz on foreign policy.
He doesn't have much to say other than this would never have happened if
I was president. Well, excuse me very much, okay. But the
full throated support of Israel is the reason we're in this mess to begin with.
They've been given the green light for everything. Donald Trump gave them,
the West Bank, the Golden Heights, the US Embassy, and Jerusalem basically
broke every international UN resolution, law entreaty, all to placate the needs of
an extremist, ideological settler colony in the Middle East known as Israel. That's
what Donald Trump's done, so he set the stage for Joe Biden, who
gave Israel everything they wanted. Okay, it's not Biden's weakness. Okay,
Biden is delivered every single j DM baumb every single piece of ammunition, every
single satellite has been commandeered in the service of the Israelis as they massacre the
civilian population of Gaza. Okay, all with the help of the US.
It would have been impossible without the one hundred and ten percent support of Joe
Biden. Okay, to his fault, he has given everything that Israel had
asked for. And the toll in terms of human lives, in terms of
people disfigured, people have lost limbs, the injured and the injured is excess
of sixty thousand, thirty five thousand known dead, fifteen thousand children, nine
thousand women that's known dead. They estimate there's potentially another five thousand missing under
the rubble, and they reckon it's going to take some time somewhere between ten
and thirty years to clear the rubble. Ten and thirty years to clear the
rubble. Okay. I've been to war zones before, I've been to cities
where they're still cleaning up the war thirty years later. That's the reality.
Okay, So it's not Biden's weakness, quite the opposite. It's Biden's complete,
unflagging support of a genocidal regime in Israel. That's the problem. And
that's where Trump has got it wrong. Of course, really has got it
wrong. And so I asked the question on Twitter today. It's a fair
question that if Donald Trump wins in November, like all the polls suggest that
he might, who is going to be advising Donald Trump on Iran in Russia?
Are we going to have an intelligent, scholarly and considerate expert or experts
advising the president or are we going to have some unhinged ideologues and neo Cohn
Charlatan's like Mike Pompeo and John Bolton. Is that who's going to be advising
the president? Because if it is, they're going to put this country and
the world onto the path of World War III, pure and simple. If
you can't find anybody qualified with I mean, put an EEG reader on the
head. Check for electrical activity, see if there's any brain waves there.
First check to see if there's any brain activity, then check their resume and
it's very rare you can get both of those things going right these days in
Washington because Trump's last team on foreign policy. Yeah, he didn't start in
any new wars, but he didn't really stop any either, And he nearly
started a war with Iran by assassinating Consumpsulamani and Abu Madi Mohendez okay. And
that's something that the Iranians are never going to forget and they might even take
an opportunity need to exact revenge for that unsolicited, targeted killing. And by
the way, Sulimani was fighting Isis and winning. Is that why the US
killed him? That was set up by the Israelis And at the last minute,
the Israelis backed out and left the United States literally with the kill shot,
and of course they were there, they said, well, let's just
go through with it. So isn't that interesting how Tel Aviv goaded the Trump
administration to doing something that's totally not in their self interest, not in the
national interests of the United States, doing a favor a solid for Israel that
Israel was supposed to carry out the final move and then peeled off right before
the end and left the US holding the can our greatest friend in ally Israel.
You see how the relationship works. We do everything for them, they
do very little, if anything, for us. We share all of our
intelligence with them, they share nothing with us. That's the relaylationship. It's
not exactly a two way relationship. It's more like a parasitic relationship. That's
the story, unfortunately, of this tale that's wagging the dog. We're going
to take a short break right now with the network, and when we come
back, we're going to connect our guest, Jay Dyer, author of Esoteric
Hollywood one and two and much much more. We're going to talk about end
times, eschatology, cult, the Red Heifer, John Hagey. We're going
to touch all of that because it's oh so relevant right now today, all
this and more. On the other side, I'm Patrick Genninson, will be
right back TNT Sterren Paullman. There was a plan on the British side immediately
after the victory over Germany to continue the wharf, to get the to push
the weekend Soviet Union back over backwards. So that is something that is not
well known. That plan has been You could find it on the internet and
then it's off and on sometimes again, it's very difficult. It's not long.
It's something like if I called directly something of thirty pages, I would
say, I read the Soviets had this coup in Czechoslovakia in nineteen forty eight,
and that in that appeared as the Soviets really was pushing forward, and
they would they thought that this means that we have to start an alliance against
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I Say app now that is number four My Say Today's News Talk, News
Information TNT Radio. Welcome back, folks, welcome back, I'm yours Patrick
Kenningson, thank you for joining us. We're now we're number two of this
live broadcast. Oh how time flies? When you're having good fun here on
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bubble. Get in there. That's where you want to be during the live
show. Now, we had a great segment, of course, talking about
the real politique of the Iran Israel situation. I want to extend that story
a little bit though with our next guest. He is a researcher, a
presenter, a comedian, also a very successful author to boot among other things.
His name is Jay Dyer. He's the author of Esoteric Hollywood one and
two. Jay, appreciate you coming on the program this week. It's Hilly
Patrick. We always have really good conversations, so I'm glad to be here
and I always like breaking down weird versions of religious fanaticism, cults and so
forth. So happy to do that. Yeah, and the timing right now,
Jay, I mean, we definitely want to get your input on.
We're talking about cults and times, eschatology, religious extremism, crazed ideologues.
There's plenty of them that are literally wringing their hands right now on Monday,
after what's happened over the weekend. They're anticipating that this is the final battle
that's coming. Thetan Zionists, the pastors were just going off on Sunday.
If you watch these sort of evangelical cable channels, you would have seen some
of them. We've got a few clips. I'll share one of them with
you, of course, in a moment. But it's all seems to be
coming to a head. According to some people, Jay, this is the
great battle. The great battle is about to come, and all this eschatological
conclusions will finally reach the climax that everybody seems to have been living for,
hoping for armageddon. I don't know what do you make of this? How's
your reading on this? I know you personally, what are your thoughts?
And then tell us what the playing field looks like on this? Well,
personally, My thoughts are I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to it
because I remember growing up as a Baptist hearing about Red Heifer's stories at least
since the eighties and nineties. So this is a thing that's often recycled,
especially as you pointed out, in the sort of event angelical media sphere.
They love this, they go crazy. I shared a meme of Nicholas Cage
going wild on coke from the eighties in an interview, and I said,
this is what you get when evangelicals here catch wind of the slightest story about
the Red Heifer, because they believe that this is somehow sort of initiating the
end of the world and that it has to happen, and that that will
trigger the anti Christ. And I'm not saying that, you know, whenever
the end of the world is, that that stuff won't happen in that way
or whatever. I don't think we really know how it's going to shake out.
But I can say, beyond my own personal views of it, that
as I started studying this in my twenties and as I got older, I
started noticing a lot more geopolitical tie ins to a lot of the dispensational Evangelical
Christian Zionist in time stuff that when I was younger, I was very naive
to. And as you get into think tanks and things like, you know,
say John Hay's connection to Apak and other entities, started becoming evident to
me that maybe there's other motivations to what people like John Hagy push. And
I have to admit that when I was kind of an idiot eighteen nineteen year
old evangelical actually bought the John Hagey Study Bible. At one time I thought
that this was like a great study Bible, and I thought, oh,
yeah, the Rapture and all this. But what I didn't know was the
history behind the emergence of dispensationalism just comes out of like eighteen hundred's British imperial
Actually, I argue cult theology, you could say, because John Nelson Darby
was a member of the Plymouth Brethren, which was an offshoot of Anglicanism,
so it was already kind of an imperial thing. And what Darby came up
with was this idea that there's these arbitrary, sort of divided series of history
that don't really overlap with one another, and so rather than the older longtime
Chris teaching of both the Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church and most Protestant
churches even that the Church is really the spiritual New Israel, the idea became,
no, there's actually a dual covenant where God has a relationship to the
Church and to the followers of Jesus. But there's also still this validity to
the Mosaic Covenant by which Jews can still be saved outside of Christianity or through
some other means. And so what again begins as what you might think is
a religious ideology, I believe was actually promoted by the British Empire. This
is right before we have the Balfour Declaration. This is right before we get
the establishment of the nation state of Israel. And I think that the entities
that were pushing this, particularly through what's called the Scofield Study Bible that's printed
i think Stephen still to this day by Oxford University Press. It's not accidental
that that was pushed massively in the United States at that time, where you
have around the time of the post the Great Awakenings, to get this period
in American evangelicalism of revivalism and tent revivals very popular all over the US.
And this infusion of this new idea of dispensationalism, the coming Rapture, the
end times, Jesus is going to come back to Jerusalem, set up a
new a thousand year kingdom on Earth, et cetera, et cetera. That
infused the American Protestant evangelical psyche, which again began as like part of you
know, Congregational Baptist type. This actually ends up spreading, I think,
throughout the Protestant mind as a whole in America and maybe even into the Catholic
mind as well in America, because we sort of have this default to just
assuming that all of these verses, all this stuff is talking about the modern
nation state of Israel, which I don't think a lot of this is referring
to that, but that became the default. Through this what you could argue
is perhaps a geopolitical sie of of the pushing of the Schofield study bubble,
which to this day is still very popular amongst evangelicals. And that's why we
have people like John Hagy and his Cornerstone Church, which, if you don't
remember a few years ago, these around two thousand and seven or eight,
you actually put out a book saying that Jesus wasn't the Messiah, and it
was such a controversy he retracted that. So that's really what this is about,
is sort of a geopolitical agenda to castigate and to sort of spin that
Russia is Gog and Magog and China's in there somewhere and somehow ol Iran as
part of this Antichrist in Time's religion thing. I don't agree with, you
know, Shia Islam and their theology. I have a professor friend from Harvard,
doctor Khalil, who is a Shia Muslim, so I want to understand
those positions, but I don't think that that has anything to do with what's
going on in the Book of Revelation or something like that. Yeah, that's
the British imperial angle is very interesting, Jay, when you took the geopolitical
scope, because going back to previous and like the Holy Roman Empire and the
Crusades trying to achieve not much different really than what the British were trying to
achieve through their imperial machination. So you can see how it's very important and
the schism between Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism in the West, and all of these
is managing the global imperium and the role that religion plays in that, and
certainly end times dispensationalism, end time narratives, eschatology. I've got a clip
here from John Hagey as you brought him up. He is riding high right
now in the evangelical world based on what's happened over the weekend. Let's roll
this clip. I want to get your reactions and comments on this day.
Go ahead, exactly did you see last night that you want to share with
the people this morning. Prophetically, we are on the verge of the Gog
may Gog war that Ezekiel described in chapter thirty eight and thirty nine. This
attack by Iran, who launched more than two hundred missiles yesterday, is a
tribute to the weak and pathetic leadership of Joe Biden. I assure you,
if Ronald Reagan was president, we wouldn't be in this mess. Iran attacked
Israel one day after our president looked into the face of the camera and said,
don't don't you know they just laid on the ground and tremble with fear.
They were loading the launchpad right then, the Democrats are trying to advise
Israel to de escalate, which is seek to the ears of a moss in
Iran. We don't need to de escalate. A mosque started a war murdering
Jewish people. A mosque needs to be wiped out fears. So you heard
me say, love is not what you do. Love is not what you
say, it's what you do. So what are we going to do about
it? You know, the providential timing of God is an awesome thing.
Well, it goes on and on, Jay as you can imagine. What
did you make of that? A gog and magog right opening gambit right there
exactly. That's been a favorite of the evangelical and Time's preachers since probably before
I was born. I'm sure, yeah, I mean, if it's conveniently
into you know, geopolitical narratives as the need dictates. And you know,
he made much ado about these supposed blood moons a few years ago. It
looks to me like he's more interested in moon pies than blood moons. But
when it comes to John Hagy, you know, nobody pays attention to the
failed predictions. And this is another thing that we see with a lot of
these characters beyond beyond the geopolitical, maybe even just more down to earth.
Is just sort of the classic con managen where we constantly sort of tease and
in times scenario we you know, the Herald Camping style where we predict the
end when it doesn't happen, always sort of moved the goalpost back a little
bit. So, you know, he made a big deal about the blood
blood moons of Israel or something a while back that wasn't anything. And this
is just you know, part and parcel for I think people who are you
know, they work for foreign powers, very very obvious now I think people
can figure that out. So it's sad because it really has no nothing to
do with traditional Christian theology whatsoever. But it's again very useful in a sort
of geopolitical way, as in times narratives have always been. In fact,
if you study cults, many of them capitalize on the imminent end times fear,
panic sensationalism throughout. You can go back to, for example, the
Munster Rebellion, I think they had an end times scenario going that you know,
win the state for example, I think the German state persecuted the Munster
rebellion and they say, oh, it's the end of the world, right.
So anytime there's a cult with the need to induce in the flock fear,
anxiety, manipulation, we see this with, for example, the Joe's
Witnesses. I was just doing another deep dive on them recently, and they
had a famous figure after Charles tas Russell's name was Judge Rutherford, and he
did a very similar move where he said that the Messiah was coming back to
San Diego, interestingly, and he told his followers amongst those witnesses, to
their possessions and prepare for a place for David and Jesus to live. And
it ended up being a pretty nice size pad in San Diego that would probably
sell for about ten million dollars. And when Jesus and Moses and David didn't
show up, of course, Judge Rutherford ended up living there. Hal Lindsay
did a very similar move where he predicted the rapture thing in nineteen eighty eight,
and if I remember, I think he bought a bunch of Malibu property
when the rapture didn't happen in nineteen eighty eight. So there's a con men
level to this. But again, as you pointed out, there's also this
whipping up the fervor of the mindless evangelical audiences that we'll think that this is
somehow initiating end of the world. So in Israel right now, one of
the dominating political movements part of the current prime minister's coalition, so the far
right, ethno nationalist, hardcore, Benevere small Church. Then you have these
radical settlers. They're now in cabinet positions now in Israel. So many will
argue this is the most rap government ever in the history of the modern state
of Israel, in its infancy whatever eighty years now, I guess it's been
going. And so according to the Temple Mount Organization, this is a type
of religious ngo. I guess in Israel that they ask for planning permission or
a license to slaughter the red heifer on the Olive Mount within a direct line
of sight to Al Kudz as the Palestinians call it, Alexa Moosque, or
the Temple Mount as the Jewish residents refer to it. That's one of the
sort of things that triggered off around the hostilities called the Second into Fodder with
aero Sharon going onto the Temple mount and that sort of sparked a religious conflict
and another round of hostilities that many will argue were at the at the end
of right now, So, and what is the story with this red heifer?
My understanding is it that they the prophecy is that they'll find this perfect
red cow and then they have to sacrifice it. I guess to atone for
worshiping the golden calf, the thing that Moses basically what disapproved of when he
came to So I think that when the when the when the Temple's gone,
there can't be animal sacrifices, or at least the old levitical structure. It
requires the temple, and it requires the you know, ironic priesthood, so
that there's a lot of these requirements which I'm assuming that some of the people
from this institute believe that they've met, perhaps they've done genetic testing to figure
out who the kohaim aar which would be the descendants of uh, you know,
the ironic priesthood. I don't understand the logic of how they would be
able to do it without the temple. Maybe they think that this would initiate
the possibility of building the temple at the mosque is in the way, So
perhaps this isn't a situation to uh agit prop like a sort of a large
style adjet prop. Might also be what this is intended to do. I
don't know. That might be you reference to previous event that sort of sparked
Islamic reaction, so it might be for that purpose. But the interesting thing
is that, of course, in you know, Talmudic traditions, it's not
exactly what's in the Bible. So the Talmudic traditions sort of they trump what
is in the written text of the Torah. So you know, maybe they
have reasoning as to how they can do this without a temple, or they
believe that this will initiate the clin the the that this would purify the area
for the new temple that they would like to build. It might be all
those things, but to me it seems odd. I would think there has
to be a temple before this works. But I think it's just part of
the the uh dedication of the temple and uh you know, the ability to
have the Day of Atonement and all that the way it's supposed to be practiced
according to their tradition. So, but my guess would be there might also
be, as you said or implied, a kind of a agit prop psychological
operation going on here. Yeah, it would be considered a major provocation,
definitely right exactly to especially for Palestinians and Muslims living there, even Christians as
well, building a third temple on the Temple Mount. The construction of the
Third Temple, this would be the sort of you know, moment where I
don't know is that when Israel supposedly comes into its own Certainly the Christian Zionists
look at this moment as really important, some kind of a harbinger for the
coming of the Messiah. I'm not sure if I've got all that right.
Well, they're coming of it the Antichrist. I mean, I think most
evangelical believe that the next temple that would be erected would be for the Antichrist,
and that that would kick off, you know, the events of Armageddon
or the apocalypse, which would lead to a world government, a world religion,
and so forth under Antichrist, and then you would have the end of
that after a period of time, with a return of Christ. So in
the evangelical mind, it signifies that I would say that it also could signify
that to Orthodox and Catholic theologians as well, who, although they don't share
the same dispensational ideas of evangelicals, there is a pretty common consensus amongst Orthodox
and Catholic church fathers, historians, theologians that there would eventually be some final
temple that would be dedicated to Antichrist. Whether this is that, I have
no idea. Of course, we don't even have a temple yet, but
if that's where this is going, it would be interpreted by a large portion
of the Christian world in general as that, Well, that's one of the
strange things about this and times on the kind of Christian Zionis side, because
and I had this conversation with Christian Zionists and saying, what are you going
to do? I mean, what are you going to do with all of
these Jewish people in the in the Holy Land? What? What's what's the
what's the plan? They said, well, they're gonna have to convert.
They're gonna have to convert. So so there it's like the Jewish lobby,
the Israeli lobby definitely relies on Christian Zionists to bolster their political power, uh
and financial power in the US, and that helps Israel. But at the
same time, the Christian Zionists are kind of using the the Jews in the
Holy Land to as a sort of means to an end, to get to
their final story. So both sides are kind of using each other in a
way. It's a very strange dance. Jay, Yeah. The evangelical yeah,
exactly. The evangelical Zionist position believes that when these events are sort of
kicked off, like you know, Domino's or something, that this will lead
to a mass conversion of the Jews. They then believe that the Jews would
then convert a large portion of humanity in this end time scenario. So if
this is that from their perspective, right, if they begin to see a
temple being constructed, if they begin to see, you know, movement in
that direction, the evangelical Zionists will believe that it is the final seven years
to the end of the world or whatever, the armageddon period, and they
will believe that the Jews are going to convert in mass and so forth.
So it's a little more amorphous and ambiguous in the other Christian churches and traditions
as to what exactly would be the sequence, because they tend to interpret a
lot of these events in a more allegorical and spiritual way and not in such
a literal way in terms of the Book of Revelation. So yeah, it's
hard to know exactly what the reaction will be amongst those a lot of those
grips. But one thing that's ironic is I remember some years ago there was
vidego going around that they were interviewing a lot of Israelis and a lot of
their perspectives on Christian Zionists, and they were all making fun of them,
calling them completely retards. So so the Israeli perspective of the Zionists is that
they're idiots. The're Christian Zionists, right, so they don't have any respect
or appreciation or the law is not mutual, right, They're essentially just useful
idiots, perhaps, And I think that, yeah, in many ways,
this is a sort of a just a bizarre delusion that's I guess born out
of the fanaticism of the peculiarities of American Protestantism, Puritanism, Evangelicalism, which
sort of wants and grasps for maybe it's a way to see a confirmation for
their beliefs and for their system that if there is these signs and these events,
then this must be the end of the end of days and it must
then confirm, you know, whatever the peculiar position is. Yeah, that's
that sort of self fulfilling circular totology. I mean you talk about this with
cults. That's one of the key things, isn't it. If you have
a kind of a cult movement or an organization, you need these types of
beliefs in place in order to hold the group together, to keep the group
think together. And so would you say that it is possible to describe some
of the aspects of I mean going to be controversial for some Christians and Pentecostal
people, whatever, but some aspects of Christian Zionism are slightly cultish. Is
that a stretch to say this? No? Absolutely, I mean I would
say that again the way that say, an Orthodox or a Roman Catholic person
perceives the Church to be the spiritual Israel. The evangelical Zionists doesn't really see
the church or a church or historical church. Is that relevant? That is
all sort of transferred to the nation state of Israel or what's going on over
in you since post nineteen forty eight or whatever. So they see that that
as kind of their church. That's essentially where all of their you know,
their prayer, their focus is all, you know, based on whatever's going
down in the Middle East on a day to day perspective. So no,
I think that's completely cult like. Not that everyone in those groups is a
cult leader necessarily willingly involved in this, but I think that they're They're incorrect,
and it does operate very cult like in many sectors for sure. So
what you're saying there, Jay, in the difference of the interpretation of what
is the church or what is Zion or what is Israel, there's one that's
a very materialistic interpretation of that a thing, a plot of land, a
temple, and there's another way of interpreting it. It's more of a concept
and idea, a spiritual destination, if you will. Is that a good
way to sort of describe those two that schism absolutely, I think, you
know, all throughout the New Tent in particular, and then into the early
days of Christianity, there was already a temptation towards what's called Judaizing, which
is the idea that Christianity needs to go back to or import more and more
of the Judaic elements rather than Christianity being its own thing with a proper sort
of Old Testament framework. But then also that it needs perhaps circumcision, that
it needs the Jewish feast days and all. This is this sort of stuff
which again the early Church in the first three fourth centuries already dealt with this.
In fact, you see it in the Book of Acts in chapter fifteen.
There's already a question of what's the relationship between Christianity to the new emerging
Church and Jews and Gentiles. And this issue was already solved in Acts fifteen,
and the decision was that Gentiles do not need to become Jews to be
Christians. And so much of the New Testament literature, whether it's Paul's Letters
to the Galatians, Romans, the Book of Hebrews, they're all dealing with
these issues, and they were all settled a long time ago. And that's
why you don't really have anything like dispensationalism until it becomes geopolitically useful in the
late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds to the British Empire. So that's really what
is the key I think to unlocking a lot of this is just understanding its
usefulness. And as you pointed out the patterns that we see with other cult
movements. I think we had mentioned the Black Heuber Israelites recently that you see
very similar ideas of They're not the same as the Evangelical Christian Zionists, but
there's a lot of parallels in terms of that cult movement with this idea of
being LARPing. Oh, we're the real Jews. Jews aren't Jews, we're
the real Jews. And it's actually a borrowed sort of oppression narrative that the
Book of Exodus, because it talks about slavery in Egypt, that must therefore
be talking about the slavery experience of black people in you know, modern post
you know, the last few cent but it has nothing that's not what the
Axodus is talking about, right, So the context is not it's about the
stories of you know, the Jews in Egypt and Pharaoh and all that,
but that's appropriated by the cults to be them. So basically a lot of
these groups are basically just trying to sort of larp as something else. Is
the point? No, it is as fast fascinating. I want to talk
about that. That's an interesting emerging type of thing I've seen on the Internet.
A lot of these movements have really like reproduced themselves rapidly on social media
in the ways that they haven't been before. Before. You used to have
to go to the street corners of New York and you know, Detroit and
Atlanta, and you might meet some of these people, but it had newsletters
and stuff. Now you have huge online organizations about this. I'm with Jay
Dyer, a fantastic analyst, a philosopher and author, a presenter. We're
talking about the end Times, cults, Christian Zionism, Israel, the Red
Hafer. We're going to delve into a little more of this on the other
side. I'm Patrick Kenningson, your host. This is TNT Today's News Talk.
We'll be right back after these messages. Right now, the forgotten poor
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Ryan Blaney, a third generational race car driver, and we dedicate a lot
of our time to going as fast as possible. But when my grandpa was
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it could be Alzheimer's talk about seeing a doctor together. Patrick Henningson talks
on Today's News Talk Radio TNT. Welcome back, folks to the final segment
of the final hour of this live broadcast here on Monday. And in case
anybody didn't notice, we are extremely close to a sort of World War three
type of escalation ladder in the Middleast, now Iran facing off against Israel.
This is a woken the Christian right. Of course, Christian Zionists are now
anticipating that we're getting very close to that final battle, the armageddon that is
they've been talking about for years, for centuries in fact, in some cases.
To help us navigate some of this, I'm with Jay Dyer. He
is an author, presenter. He's also a philosopher, a real philosopher,
I might add, Jay, there's a lot of people who call themselves philosophers
online, and as we're on the subject, one of them is Ben Shapiro,
who other people call the philosopher that he's been called the most the greatest
or most popular, most read or most listened to online philosopher in the world.
And Jordan Peterson as well is the most popular, most just because he
stinks of the bacologic tacologic mat Patrick, because he only stinks the taxologic.
That's it. So no emotions, only in facts and logic. That's fine.
So I got your impression. So so you know, on that topic,
just on the on the political and the philosophical side of this as well,
Ben Shapiro took took a very hard stance defending Israel UH and everything they
were doing after October seventh, and he's come a lot of pushback, a
lot of heat he's taken as a result of that, the big split with
Candace Owens and the Daily Wire and everything. And it is funny and I
thought it's interesting this He became famous battling identity politics and SJW social justice warriors,
and it seems to me, Jane, tell me if I'm completely out
of bounds here, I'm sure some people are going to be pissed off of
what I'm about to say. But he seems to be one of the greatest,
biggest SJW social justice warriors and identity politics peddlers. But for Zionism or
for Israeli or Jewish identity politics, he is absolutely their number one ambassador.
And it seems like this is kind of an extreme version of identity politics,
but one that nobody likes to talk about, but it does manifest itself in
politics of course, in culture as well, and right now it's it's a
front and center issue with what's going on in the Middle East in terms of
the you know, viability of the Jewish state of Israel or the whatever Desigonist
state of Israel. What do you think about that? Do you think that
this is a type of identity politics. Yeah, I think that. And
you know, in the way media is now online, it's very difficult to
have double standards, and so people are immediately going to recognize those double standards
to where if you're pushing, you know, your firm belief in free speech
and then doubling down and saying that, I'm trying to remember the phraseology he
used about to Tucker and other people that were asking questions, and Shapiro says,
you're not just asking questions. You're not allowed to ask questions. Yet
it wouldn't that be free speech. So whatever you believe a person's motives are
for asking the questions is really irrelevant to whether it's still part of the free
speech to ask those questions. So I think people are just recognizing very quickly
double standards. We know the Daily Wire was very adamant when it came to
stabbies that they promoted, when it came to other things that they promoted,
and then later we saw people like Shapiro and Jordan Peterson sort of backing away
from and kind of saying maybe they were wrong about that, I think when
it was absolutely necessary to do so. I suspect that I don't have no
knowledge of this. My opinion is that the probably the Daily Wire doesn't allow
anybody there near anybody that has quote conspiracy theories. Of course, we don't
really know what that is. I mean, that could be that to just
be your geopolitical analysis just happens to be quote conspiracy. I mean, we've
talked about the history of dispensationalism. Is that conspiracy theory or is that just
geopolitics? So these are very ambiguous to terms that are not really defined.
And I think that the you know, those outlets that are often referred to
as con inc are being called out on a lot of these double standards and
hypocritical positions, and people are seeing them not really budging very much, trying
to keep doubling down, but that's I just don't know how long that's gonna
work if it keeps being exposed that we've got all these double standards. So
you know, this is where we are with the internet. I mean,
everything's out there, people can go dig it up. And so you either
have to admit, all right, I was wrong, I changed my view,
that was wrong about that. I just don't know how well how long
that doubling down can last. And absolutely it's another kind of identity politics that
can be manipulated, which you've covered for many years. And also I think
you know, one of the most one of the models that he chose,
which I guess works was for many years. Yeah, he was debating social
justice warriors and sort of owning the Libs and all, but he was really
debating a bunch of you know, purple haired eighteen year old college students.
I mean, who couldn't win a debate with an eighteen year old college student
who doesn't know anything, you know, and it's sort of spouting out about
you know, dolphins and identifying as a clopper or something. I mean,
who couldn't win that debate. So it's a very low hanging fruit model that
con inc relied on for so long, and I'm starting to think that,
you know, we're really seeing the that model kind of breaking. It's not
gonna work to continue to own the libs like its twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen
anymore when people can see that you were pushing the stabby and the lockdowns and
all this. Maybe they didn't push lockdowns. I don't know about that,
but pushing the stabby at least a few years ago is stabby. That's uh,
that's code for jibby jab. I'm just so used to, you know,
YouTube, YouTube makes me speak another language because of you know, all
the censorships. I'm just used to the code words now. I know you
have to you do you do have to use code words, don't you.
I know you do, just to keep your videos up on that platform.
It's pretty uh, pretty crazy. Yeah, this is that's interesting. You
know, Candice owens to me, she's fascinating because they really worked hard to
kind of cultivate her as this sort of you know conservative really the tip of
the spear. Actually, they really used her out front to sort of you
know, fight off the woke, all this sort of black lives matter,
the the the crazed college students that you were talking about, and Ben Shapiro
was just kind of there micromanaging all that, and all of a sudden she's
asserting her Christian identity and she said, I think it was christ as King.
That was a controversial statement, apparent only a bridge too far for some.
And then you start seeing these these splits and these shouldn't be political,
but yet it's hard to separate the politics and the religion because this kind of
proves it, doesn't it. Yeah, you know, it's a lot of
a lot of issues there. You know, the idea of social teaching of
Christianity and the Christian Church. This is something that for example, historically,
at least the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church, I've had a pretty fairly
consistent idea that there are social norms that Christian peoples and Christian nations can expect
and should work for in the civil sphere. So you know, things like
pro life and maybe if you're if you believe in the death thing, you
might be pro death penalty, et cetera. There's all these there's different positions
that one could list, you know, ethically and morally that might be a
part of that. But when it comes to the evangelical sphere. This is
a little more controversial because, of course, I think Daily Wire has kind
of an outreach to both sort of no army Roman Catholics out there through Walsh
and Knowles, and then sort of an outreach to maybe the sort of a
Norman evangelical world through Ben Shapiro and some of the other ladies that are commentators
there. And perhaps, as you said, I think, you know,
the Candice was intended to fill another role there for maybe reaching black audiences with
a conservative message. And when you get to one of these key issues that
divides for example, classic Protestant and Catholic theology or Orthodox theology, like the
social kingship of Christ, and is there a sense in which Christian theology relates
to the civil sphere, it's very difficult to not come to an impasse there,
and I think that's partly what was going on. That does offend a
lot of Christian Zionists, It defends a lot of perhaps secular minded people in
America, it defends the atheist so it's a very hot button contition, intentious
issue. I don't think it's intentionally antisemitic, So that was an odd angle
on this, so everything seems to be turned into everything is an offensive antisemitic
issue. I don't think everything is. So there was a lot going on
in this crisis King of Candae issue, but it forced I think this this
reckoning. I guess you could say with you know, what is conn inc
Really is this really about quote conservative message or is this another version of Fox
News? Basically yeah, And also it's the cultivating the anti semitism charge is
kind of losing its sting because it's kind of been overused over eggs. So,
but itself is a victimology sort of framework, isn't it so? And
this is the very thing that Ben Shapiro railed against the left for constantly,
and he himself is using it as his sort of you know, magic cloak,
but it just doesn't have it doesn't have the same effect that it had
before. So this is just one of those big sort of tools, if
you will, in sort of you know, it's like a hand grenade.
It used to be able to throw into the debate, and there's end it
just say anti semitism. Now that that's gone, now people having to have
real conversations about some of this stuff. So I actually think this is a
great time, Jay, where there's an opportunity for real debate now on some
of these issues that were just so pinned down with all of these different guardrails,
And it seems like, I don't know if you agree or not,
but the conversation is getting a lot more open, a lot more honest,
and people are saying things that maybe they couldn't say before. I'm not talking
about the extreme racist element, and believe me that this has green lit a
lot of hardcore Nazis to come out from the shadows and reassert themselves on social
media. But what are your thoughts about the current atmosphere for discourse right now?
Yeah, I like the analogy you gave there of a grenade. I
mean, it used to be any topic at all, these hot button topics
that you would bring up, you know, just immediately shouted down, and
so no rational discourse, no reason discourse, no real debate. I think
a lot of people in media realized that there's no point in certain topics even
being discussed, and I think that we're still at that phase of maybe not
with the fact of Israel being everywhere in the news, everywhere, in discussion,
everywhere in debate, that it's really impossible to tell everyone you can't say
anything or or criticize Israel in any way, and I think a lot of
people and even in Israel, are critical perhaps of the regime there. So
ideally, I think what the West has has shot for at least since well,
even in the Middle Ages, even before the Enlightenment, there was a
very vibrant culture of debate. You can go back to the medieval universities which
would had a public a debate sphere going all the time, and that would
even include a laity. It wasn't just the priests there, there were lay
professors that were debating all the time. A Byzantium was known for a very
vibrant debate culture. A lot of people don't know this, so it's very
much a part of our tradition. And to have you know, big tech
and all of this mainstream media in the last twenty thirty forty years, more
mainstream legacy media and then big tech, you know, trying to really shut
down all discourse at all. It really, I think is more and more
backfiring, and people are realizing I think the koof was really the COVID was
really what woke everybody up to hey, wait a minute, like you can't
even talk about this, you know, I remactin right, you can't say
anything. And then now we're realizing, well, now wait a minute.
If we couldn't talk about all that stuff, how come we can't talk about
what's going on in terms of Israel versus Palestine. And I think that the
eventually the dam just broke to where people just decided we're going to talk about
it anyway. The entire world is talking about it, so it's ridiculous to
try to continue to use these heavy handed measures to not let people talk about
it. And that, actually, I think was an overstepping of the power
structure. The power structure tried to be so heavy handed that it ended up
I think causing the dam to burst. Yeah, and you're I remember watching
this, I don't know of the seventies, you've probably seen the old clips
jay on PBS, and we have these debates between these intellectuals, and Michel
Foucoh versus William F. Buckley was the dividing lote, like the Buckley Show.
Yeah. Yeah, they used to have these programs and they were heavily
promoted, like people would stop organize their evening around some of these debates and
then that kind of subsided that culture. But I think it's coming back.
I know you're also you're that's a big part of what you do is you
platform debates. You're doing it on ex Twitter spaces right now and you're getting
a lot of interest. You did this on YouTube for years as well,
and you and some others, you guys have really you know, your your
sort of group of I don't know, maverick sort of intellectual philosophical mavericks have
platformed these debates and you've made it more trendy I think, and more fashionable
to that this is something that people should be spending their time watching and doing
for younger generations as well. So I think you've been successful, especially in
the religious and philosophical fields. So I do see that that trend increasing and
it's just going to get bigger and bigger. So if you had, if
you had a chance to square off against somebody, who would you want to
debate? If you had the opportunity right now? Oh that's a tough I
mean, we've invinded quite a few people to do debates. I've noticed with
a lot of the really big name people quite often what happens is that it
kind of you kind of have to keep pressing it. It usually takes maybe
one to two years before maybe they realized who you were. They they've heard
your name enough and then they agreed to a debate. But you know,
we've asked a lot of people that were pretty big name people that turned it
down. I mean, I've thrown out there that on Twitter. You know,
I'd like to debate Ben Shapiro. I'd like to debate Mohammed his job.
I'd like to debate cosmic skeptic Dawkins, you know, in any of
those kinds of characters. Sam Harris, Sam Harris, Sure I would,
But I don't think for a lot of those people there's much incentive for them
to do to debate. You know that they have, I guess more to
lose, nothing to gain by having a debate with me. But but certainly
those would be you know people I would. I would. I wouldn't say
no to those people for sure. No, that's that's definitely something some of
those names will probably happen at some point, Jay, so some to look
forward to. Jay Dyer really appreciate You've got a live show coming up.
Give it a shout before we go. I gotta thank you. You can
find me over at Jays Analysis. You can find me on Twitter under my
name Jay Dyer. You can get my books at Jays Analysis. My recent
book is this Little Introduction to Philosophy, a lot of essays that I've done
over the years about philosophy. And you can get my books at the website
and the shop. And a live event coming up. You got to live.
Oh, I'm sorry, we have a lot of Yeah, June and
twenty second in Las Vegas with Jamie Kennedy. I would be doing six hour
event of lectures and comedy, so it's gonna be a lot of fun.
Jaydyer in Las Vegas. Folks, get your tickets. Jay, thank you
very much. Big thank you to Tony Gosling in the first hour. Big
thank you to our listeners, our viewers for a fantastic program. We'll see
the same time, same place tomorrow. Patrick Cunnings and your host signing out.