WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:10.119 Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Rojat. Open Minds Radio is a UFO 2 00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:15.919 news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your 3 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:24.160 host, Alejandro Rohat your house Alhondroja, and that is our good buddy Robertine. 4 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:27.160 And I got to see him. I've seen him like I saw him 5 00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:32.520 last weekend at Phoenix Move On. Luckily he lives in the Phoenix area and 6 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:36.039 he is so loved. You know, he walks in the room, everybody 7 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:40.039 wants to say hi and give him hugs, and you know, I talked 8 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:42.520 to him, hey, and he's like, oh, I'm looking forward to 9 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:47.200 the conference and you know, have somebody call me and help me register and 10 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:51.240 everything. And I'm like, yeah, it'll be great, Like but if 11 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:55.280 I'm alive to be there, And I'm like, oh, I don't think 12 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:57.520 you have to worry about that, and he said, I don't know, 13 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:02.560 but he likes. He's been saying that he's not going to be around for 14 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:06.280 very long for a long time, and I think he's going to be around 15 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:10.680 a long time because he looks very vibrant and and he gets a lot of 16 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:12.879 love. That's for sure, which I'm sure helps him out. But it 17 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:17.719 was great to see him again, was my whole point. And it is 18 00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:23.280 great to be talking to you all again as well. Today we have a 19 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:27.879 remarkable show. It's going to be great. We have Leslie Kane on the 20 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:34.120 show. And of course she did the book UFOs. Oh man, it's 21 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:40.719 such a long title. It's like generals, Astronauts, pirates, he said, 22 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:45.640 pilots and a whole bunch of very credible, very cool people on the 23 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:49.560 record about UFOs. General's pilots and government officials go on the record. Nice 24 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:53.480 you remembers the whole list. I always forget the whole list. It's such 25 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:56.640 a long list. I try to tell people what the list is and I 26 00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:59.599 can never get it. All right, she should have had pirates, so 27 00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:02.879 that would have been kind of fun. Going back in history. Some pirates 28 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:07.760 had to see some UFOs, but that would have been channeled information, and 29 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:10.680 this was straight from the horse's mouth. So this is people writing. We 30 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:19.520 know John Greenwold might have some other information. Yeah. Also, she recently 31 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:23.960 had a television show on the History Channel that was focused around her book called 32 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:30.759 Secret Access UFOs on the Record, and it didn't list out general, some 33 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:34.400 pilots and all of that stuff, but they were on the show. In 34 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:39.479 fact, there was the Belgian General, Wilfred de Brower was on the show, 35 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:45.360 who she has been in contact with, and that's very helpful because really 36 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:52.560 she is our best connection here in the Western world about the Belgium photos. 37 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:55.680 So we've talked about that recently, what's been going on with the Belgium photo. 38 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.879 And you know, this guy claimed he had made it, so Leslie 39 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:05.840 and I talked about that, and you'll get more information on that photo, 40 00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:09.439 as well as talking about of course Governor fIF Simington who was out here in 41 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:15.199 Phoenix and the governor when the Phoenix flights happened, So we talk about that. 42 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:21.520 We talked about the TV show why the History Channel treats UFOs so well 43 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:24.080 because they do, which is great, and also talking about one of some 44 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:30.319 of the most important aspects of what's been going on lately. Her book has 45 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:37.719 been getting so much attention. It's been backed by John Podesta, who was 46 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:43.280 Clinton's chief of staff and was part of the transition team for Obama into the 47 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:49.439 White House, and he has been outspoken about UFO secrecy and ending the secrecy. 48 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:53.840 She has also had Michriocaku talk a lot about her book and really champion 49 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:59.840 her book and the whole UFO thing in the media. And then more recently 50 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:04.199 another scientist well known as Scientists, this time on Astronomer, Derek Pitts, 51 00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:09.319 has also came out to talk about how great her book is. So this 52 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:15.000 is good. This is really great because now we have these mainstream, well 53 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:21.000 known people coming out and talking about UFOs because she really just I think tackled 54 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:26.439 this whole issue in the right way to get the mainstream to take attention. 55 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:30.959 So we are gonna be talking all about that. It's gonna be a lot 56 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:35.480 of fun. A couple other notes. I'm gonna be on the Travel Channel 57 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:43.160 tomorrow. Yay, so tomorrow at six pm and nine pm Pacific. I 58 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:46.360 don't know what the east slash P means if that means eastern end Pacific because 59 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:49.560 they say that, does that mean that they run it at different times in 60 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:54.480 different time zones. I don't know what the heck's going on with those people, 61 00:04:54.519 --> 00:04:58.120 but I did check that Arizona out. Right now, we're in the 62 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:00.600 Pacific time zone and it is going to be sick two pm and nine pm 63 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.920 reshown and then it's going to be showing on Saturday, like at four pm. 64 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:13.560 But it's Ultimate Travel Legends of the Parks, talking about paranormal stuff going 65 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:19.240 in and on around the country, especially in national parks. So I talked 66 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:25.360 about more than just UFOs, but I do talk about qfos at the National 67 00:05:25.399 --> 00:05:29.600 Sand Dunes, and we talk about cattle mutilations and the Jersey Devil and the 68 00:05:29.639 --> 00:05:34.519 Brown Mountain lights and Yellowstone and scary stuff going on there, and you're gonna 69 00:05:34.519 --> 00:05:40.839 get freaked out. Well hopefully not. Hopefully he'll just have a good time 70 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:43.680 and be informed and it'll be a lot of fun. So check it out 71 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:47.800 on a travel channel. Also check out my Huffington post on dan Ackroyd. 72 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:50.519 We already told you about how we interview. I was able to get an 73 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:58.040 interview with dan Aykroyd thanks for the help of our video television director what I 74 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:02.439 always mess up his title, but he changes his too. But producer producer 75 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:08.560 Tom Ruffin, who helped us get that done and he filmed it and edited 76 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:11.720 that which is doing really well. But I wrote about it on the Huffington 77 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:14.800 Post, but I did more of a paranormal angle, so I wrote more 78 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:20.399 about the background of the Crystal Skulls and a little bit about ghost busting in 79 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:25.319 there too, so it's not all UFOs. So you get a little flavor 80 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:29.319 of all these little things before you watch the video. So if you want 81 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:35.600 to know more about Crystal skulls, ghost busting, and the UFOs, you 82 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:40.920 can check that out. Have you explained to our listeners who may not know 83 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:46.560 what the Huffington Post is? Who doesn't know what the Huffington Post is? 84 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.279 I know we have a very hip listening group here, but just for those 85 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:56.959 who might not know what is the Huffington Post. To the huffingtonPost dot com, 86 00:06:57.160 --> 00:07:02.360 it's a news outlet, one of the Vegas and best on the internet. 87 00:07:02.759 --> 00:07:06.240 Everybody knows a Huffington Post. Come on, they might not know that 88 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:13.759 Adrianna Huffington started it, who is pretty cool. You may have seen her. 89 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:16.839 Most people might know her from the Jim Mayor Show. Is that what 90 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:20.720 it's called the guy on HBO talks politics? She used to be on that 91 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:28.399 a lot, Bill Moore, Bill Maher, Okay, I'd answer it that 92 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:31.040 that answers leave anything out. Just I just wanted to make sure people know 93 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:34.480 how to get there to find your blog because you hadn't mentioned before. Okay, 94 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:38.920 yeah, okay, Well just in case you didn't know, now you 95 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:45.279 know, the huffingtonPost dot com or you can also follow open Minds TV on 96 00:07:45.319 --> 00:07:51.480 Twitter, Paranormal rptr answer a Paranormal reporter on Twitter, any of our facebooks. 97 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:57.160 We've got open Minds facebooks up, the Yahoo well, the UFO Congress 98 00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:03.279 and everything. So we're all were social networking and the Internet. We are 99 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:09.360 a very powerful force on the Internet, and so is the Huffington Post. 100 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:11.519 Our good buddy Lee Spiegel was on the show not long ago, and he 101 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:16.639 writes for the Huffington Post and he has some new UFO articles up there too, 102 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.759 so check those out. Lee Spiegel's the coolest, very cool guy. 103 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:24.399 Also, I guess an open Minds News registration for the Congress is up. 104 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:30.040 We've got a list of a lot of the speakers at the new and improved 105 00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:37.840 website Ufocongress dot com. And we talked about the Billy Mario article you wrote 106 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:41.519 in that magazine that is out now and people should be getting that, and 107 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:46.519 we're already working on the next magazine and we're all actually starting to get closer 108 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:50.399 to wrapping that up, and that's going to be about etis and religion as 109 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:54.639 a cover story. I just finished that story, which I think you'll find 110 00:08:54.440 --> 00:09:01.279 very interesting. I find it interesting. Yeah, I'm supposed to talk until 111 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:03.080 I say the news because now they don't know who you are. If this 112 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:05.480 is the first time they've listened to the show, it's okay. If there's 113 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:09.720 this ghost voice creeping in, no, I like it better. You can 114 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:13.200 help me out because I forget things like about the pirates and the pilot the 115 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:15.840 pirates, and you're able to help me out with that. I think we 116 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:18.879 need to send that suggestion to Leslie. Yeah, where are the pirates? 117 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:22.639 What the pirates? A UFOs? All right? Well, without further ado, 118 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:28.000 We've got this guy named Jason McClellan that works around here and he covers 119 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:35.240 the news on the radio show because on the website we follow daily headlines UFOs 120 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:39.240 and the headlines all over the world, and Jason always comes into show to 121 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:43.799 share the headlines for the last week. Well he does show with pictures too 122 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:48.919 if you watch online, so there's some showing going on of those headlines. 123 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:54.279 And so we are very happy to welcome Jason McClellan, our news correspondent, 124 00:09:54.320 --> 00:10:00.200 to share some news with us Hi. Hello Alejandro, and thank you for 125 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:03.279 introducing me. Hello everyone, this is your Open minds UFO news Brief for 126 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:09.799 Monday, September nineteenth, twenty eleven. Astronomers announced the discovery of more than 127 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:13.360 fifty planets last week, including one super earth that may contain water in the 128 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:18.679 habitable zone, and we talked about that last week. The plant wonderfully named 129 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:24.279 planet HD eight five five one two B horrible name. But while scientists typically 130 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.679 focus the search for extraterrestrial life on areas that may contain water, that's something 131 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:31.600 the Kepler Space Telescope does. A new study by a team of researchers led 132 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:35.559 by a scientist at the University of Tokyo suggests that desert worlds could be a 133 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:39.799 good place to look as well. According to Discovery News, the researchers feel 134 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:46.360 that desert worlds could be remarkably resilient for the survival of life. A key 135 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:52.000 point to the researcher's findings is that desert planets are more resilient to issues that 136 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:56.759 can result in mass extinction on water planets, like global ice age. The 137 00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:01.240 computer models produced by the team of researchers indicate the habitable zone on desert planets 138 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:05.360 is three times wider than it is for water planets. Discovering News explains this 139 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:11.320 means the Kepler metric for habitable zones maybe misleading if applied only to water worlds, 140 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:16.759 because the wider range of habitability life bearing desert worlds may be more common 141 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:20.240 in our galaxy than earth like worlds. Look at Arizona, I mean, 142 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:24.480 coming from Colorado and Colorado, you know, during the summer you've got moderate 143 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:28.080 temperatures, rain, and so the plants grow, and then in the winter 144 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:33.639 they freeze. Here. You know, it's like, especially now that I 145 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:37.799 have a house, it it flores me that when it's one hundred and ten 146 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:41.120 degrees, I've got to go outside and pick weeds because weeds are going crazy. 147 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:46.240 And the summer stuff is growing and blooming, and it's amazing with very 148 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:50.480 little water, you know, the desert out here, although you know there's 149 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:54.159 not a lot of vegetiation, there's still vegetation and lots of life, that's 150 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:58.440 for sure. Out there. It's incredible. Life is so resilient. And 151 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:03.279 you and I talk talk about this a lot that you know, the scope 152 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:09.159 of NASA and most scientists we're looking for extraterrestrial life is so narrow because we're 153 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:11.200 looking for, you know, what makes sense to us, what life is 154 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:16.600 here on Earth in our conditions. But there are so many other conditions out 155 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:22.279 there that we're not looking at that could yield huge mother load of life that 156 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.960 we had no idea because we're not looking there. Yeah, we're going to 157 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:30.240 be so forwarded when we find all these creatures all over the place. I 158 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:31.799 already found them, did you. No, I didn't, but I'd liked 159 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:37.200 you me too well. More NASA News NASA's Kepler mission has discovered a world 160 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:41.759 with two sons, just like Luke Skywalker's home of Tatooine and Star Wars. 161 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:46.240 This is the first time an alien planet with two sons has been confirmed, 162 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:50.559 and according to researchers, there are most likely many more just like it. 163 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:54.120 The finding was announced at a NATHA News briefing on September fifteenth, and on 164 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:58.240 the panel of researchers was Lawrence Doyle of the SETI Institute, who was the 165 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:03.879 lead author of the paper announcing the find and John Nole, visual effects supervisor 166 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:09.080 at Industrial Light and Magic, that's Lucas's company that did the special effects for 167 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:13.360 the Star Wars movies, and the name given to this newly discovered planet is 168 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:18.559 and this is slightly better than the super Earth planet we just discussed this one. 169 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:22.919 Its formal name is Kepler sixteen B, so at least it's a little 170 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:26.200 more friendly to say. Yeah. But during the panel when they were making 171 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:33.240 the announcement, somebody posts the question what is the planet going to be called? 172 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:35.799 And who's responsible for naming it? And the panel didn't really seem to 173 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:39.639 have the answer for that. They kind of said, well, I don't 174 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:41.639 know. I guess it's going to be up to the media and the public 175 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:46.720 to give it. I guess a nickname, And they're like, what's wrong 176 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:50.120 with Kepler sixteen B. Well, of course, then people ran with Tattooin 177 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:54.960 for Star Wars, so that's really what everybody's calling it right now, is 178 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:58.960 Tattooin. Cool. But this planet has two suns You have two sunrises and 179 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:03.879 two sunsets. Pretty cool. And they doubt that it has life on it 180 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:11.120 because the variations are so great with these different different sons and vectures. We'll 181 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:13.480 just have to build a base there, so at least, you know, 182 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:18.240 Bigelow can build a hotel there, so you can enjoy this double star. 183 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:24.960 That would be a huge attraction there. I'd go absolutely, that would be 184 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:28.120 great, awesome, But yeah, big discovery there, and it was interesting. 185 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:33.000 I mean NASA, of course, in what's becoming their typical fashion, 186 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:37.759 keysed it when they sent out the press release announcing this media conference by saying 187 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:41.919 that, well, they didn't release any details. Yeah, what it was 188 00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:45.320 about. They said it was something to announce a Kepler discovery. But then 189 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:48.960 they had somebody from SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence on the panel, 190 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:56.159 as well as somebody from Lucas's Industrial Like and Magic alluding to something of course 191 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:00.600 much more exciting at least for especially people from our point of you, right, 192 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:03.919 And you know, it was to create the hype, and they did 193 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:07.159 a good job with that. You know. Obviously the guy from Industrialite Magic 194 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:11.480 didn't really have anything important to add other than oh, yeah, we didn't 195 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:16.200 ever dream that this would be a reality, but it is. So it's 196 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:22.799 cool. But it got you to watch. Absolutely, I had to watch. 197 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:24.720 Well, you know, I'm a big fan of the Kepler mission. 198 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:31.240 That makes it wasn't as boring as the last NASA hyped up response, which 199 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:35.000 was we discovered something that we already told you about a few years ago. 200 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.679 This was something that had to do with Star Wars, and that's always cool. 201 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:45.279 You mentioned Star Wars, I'm going to watch. Yeah, suck me 202 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:50.679 right in yep. The same applies with Fireball, as a Lejandro, twentieth 203 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:56.279 consecutive week of talking about Fireball UFOs something like that, maybe off to count 204 00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:02.200 because I'm curious, but we have another fire UFO. A fire by UFO 205 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:06.360 was seen streaking across the night sky over the southwestern United States on the night 206 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:10.759 of Wednesday, September fourteenth. Thousands of witnesses from Arizona, Nevada, and 207 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:15.159 California witnessed the incident. The descriptions given by witnesses vary, but many who 208 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.960 saw the mysterious object reported a burning object that was blue, green, yellow, 209 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:23.840 and orange. New stations and police stations across the Southwest were flooded with 210 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:29.919 calls and emails about the UFO. Lieutenant Justin Griffin from the Maricopa County Sheriff's 211 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:33.360 Office and Phoenix witnessed the object and explained to Reuters it took an unusually long 212 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.639 time to get across the sky, but he continued, it's like a meteor. 213 00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:41.120 It's not like we had any flying objects with little green men or anything 214 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:45.879 like that. The FAA also received several calls about the light in the sky. 215 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:52.440 According to MSNBC. Spokesman Ian Gregor confirmed that there were no aircraft incidents 216 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:57.879 reported in the Western Region Jet Propulsion Laboratories. Don Yeomans, who manages NASA's 217 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:03.720 Near Earth Object program, told the Los Angeles Times the object was primary was 218 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:07.279 probably a near Earth asteroid and not a cause for alarm, and he went 219 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.240 on to explain, we are fairly confident that it was not a spacecraft or 220 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:17.720 space junk. Yalmen offered the explanation for the color of the light from the 221 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:22.240 object, saying the bluish green color suggested the object had some magnesium or nickel 222 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:26.720 in it. Orange is usually an indication it's entering Earth's atmosphere at several miles 223 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:30.319 per second, a moderate rate of speed. Similar to Yalaman's explanation, Ed 224 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:34.559 Crope, director of Griffin Park Observatory in Los Angeles, said the UFO was 225 00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:40.279 most likely a piece of interplanetary debris burning up in Earth's atmosphere. According to 226 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:48.319 MSNBC, but some witnesses, including journalists Brian maclahattan of ABC fifteen in Phoenix 227 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:51.559 saw more than just one light in the sky, and they are multiple time 228 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:56.279 sighted by media sources for the sightings. For example, CBS Los Angeles reported 229 00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:00.519 the first reports came in from Riverside County around seven pm, but according to 230 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:04.160 MSNBC, witnesses saw the light move quickly from west to east at around seven 231 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:08.680 forty five pm. So you have a couple interesting things with this sighting. 232 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:14.799 You have different times reported, and you know, who knows how accurate they 233 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:18.000 were trying to be with saying around seven at seven forty five, that's pretty 234 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:22.079 close. But then you have this this journalist who saw two separate objects in 235 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:26.599 the sky. But you actually were fortunate enough to see this as it was 236 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:30.559 going through the sky too, Yeah, what did you see? And it 237 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:36.839 was it was definitely out I've seen especially out here because probably because I spend 238 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:38.480 so much time, you know, driving across the desert to go home, 239 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:44.359 across the Indurian Reservation and this is like fifteen twenty miles of nothing that I 240 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:48.400 drive through, so I get to see a lot and I have seen in 241 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:52.440 the last year, you know, some of the biggest fireballs or meteorites in 242 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:56.799 the sky that I've ever seen, but this was a gajillion times bigger than 243 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:02.680 any of those. This was so incredible. It was something breaking up in 244 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:08.960 the atmosphere because it was like ten of the Even though it was like ten 245 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:12.519 individual things, as it was breaking up, it was still each of these 246 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:15.519 individual things, for the most part, was bigger than anything I had ever 247 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:18.599 seen. Maybe a couple that were the same. But it was something breaking 248 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:22.559 up, and as it broke up, it lit up, and then one 249 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:26.880 of the things kind of sparked and let extremely bright where it even lit the 250 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:33.160 ground and everything super bright, just like that. Because we had full moon 251 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:37.039 that night, didn't we well, I think we might have, but the 252 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:40.240 sky was pretty earlier. Yeah, it was. I don't think this moon 253 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:41.839 was even up now that you mentioned it, because I don't remember the moon 254 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:48.400 being up or much moon shine at all. I certainly didn't have any moonshine. 255 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.799 But this thing was really bright and which broke up, So I can 256 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.000 see how everybody in town would have been able to see what I saw. 257 00:19:56.119 --> 00:20:00.400 It didn't take long, that's the thing. What I I saw. It 258 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.720 was around seven thirty seven forty I remember it was I was on the road 259 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:12.119 during that time, so it was about that time, and it seemed like 260 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:15.400 it just lit up. I think I noticed it right when it lit up 261 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:22.799 when whatever this is hit the atmosphere. So that would lead to possibly it 262 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:26.319 was maybe pieces from an asteroid that multiple pieces though, which would account for 263 00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:32.039 the different times as you're talking about breaking up. Also, Jim Mann from 264 00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:34.359 Phoenix mof On we were talking about it because he was talking about the reports 265 00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:40.759 that he got this weekend and he was saying that, you know, he 266 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:42.680 thinks that some of these people who thought the object was still, the object 267 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:47.359 was probably coming straight towards them, so it looked like it was still when 268 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:49.759 it wasn't, because then it just faded out. So that would make sense 269 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:56.599 too. So the thing is is because of these multiple sightings, it probably 270 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.920 was then junk from an asteroid or something, all coming in at different times, 271 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:06.599 although if it was a satellite or space junk. Just this week there 272 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:11.519 was a story about the different space or satellite secret satellites that are up there 273 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.519 and some of them are being displayed at the Smithsonian and they're really big and 274 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:22.160 crazy looking, and if one of those broke up and fell into the atmosphere. 275 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.119 They wouldn't admit it, so we wouldn't know. Well, there's one 276 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.319 that's going to be coming in on Friday, but that's one we know of. 277 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:32.599 That's one we know of. If that was more top secret, they 278 00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:34.880 wouldn't tell us. Well, and the one that's supposed to come in Friday, 279 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:38.240 it's kind of frightening. Yeah, it's a huge thing. They say, 280 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:42.039 it's the size of a bus and it's something like six tons or something. 281 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:45.319 It's huge, and it's going to be coming in and they really don't 282 00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:51.960 know where it's going. Yeah, the trajectory they've given, they've cited anywhere 283 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:56.480 between Alaska and southern South America. That's like half the world. Yeah, 284 00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:00.599 and this thing could come down, And they said there's like a one in 285 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.759 I don't know, a thirty thousand chance that it's gonna hit somebody that's not 286 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:11.759 the big yeh, the lottery bigger than that. Everybody thinks they're gonna win 287 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.759 the lot thing. And and they're saying it's gonna break up obviously, but 288 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.000 still they're expecting quite a few large pieces to still be intact when it hits 289 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:22.359 the ground. Yeah, it is scary, and you know, and especially 290 00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:25.559 with the secret satellite. If they didn't want to admit it, they wouldn't 291 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:27.839 admit it until it hits the ground, right, because they haven't one in 292 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:33.200 thirty thousand chances it'll drop in the ocean or somewhere where anybody won't find it, 293 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:34.720 and then they don't have to worry about it. But then once it 294 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:38.640 lands in someone's house, oh you know what, it was a top secret. 295 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:42.519 We couldn't tell anybody, And isn't that horrible? They think it's okay 296 00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:47.000 if it just lands and we litter the ocean, that's fine. Oh well, 297 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:49.359 at least no one got hurt. But also to make it come down 298 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:55.200 here, they sent the the instructions to the satellite to spend all of its 299 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.319 fuel. So they just dumped all this fuel into space, and they're gonna 300 00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:03.599 dump the garbage into the ocean. That's just a perfect example of humanity, 301 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:08.960 isn't it. Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's so incredibly How intuitively obvious is 302 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:15.200 it not to trash you know, our environment down here? Just willing nelly, 303 00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:18.319 let's just drop stuff all over the place. Well, let's move on, 304 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:21.960 Alejandro. There it seems to be a lot of lights popping up in 305 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.279 our own Arizona skies. It's kind of interesting. I think we have more 306 00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:30.880 people actually looking up at the skies and koat Channel seven, the ABC affiliate 307 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:36.400 in Albuquerque, New Mexico, so the calls poured into their newsroom on Saturday 308 00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:40.640 evening from witnesses reporting a strange lightning sky and a similar light was spotted in 309 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:45.319 the Phoenix, Arizona sky early Sunday morning. A routine weather balloon was initially 310 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:48.400 offered by meteorologists as an explanation for the lightning sky, but the National Weather 311 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:53.480 Service in Phoenix issued a statement Sunday morning to offer another explanation. The statement 312 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:59.559 announced, after further research, we received confirmation from the Columbia Scientific Balloon Facility 313 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.759 a launch did occur from Fort Sumner in New Mexico last night and was brought 314 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:08.720 down over Arizona this morning. The National Weather Service statement offered the research balloon 315 00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:14.119 theory, but concluded this may explain to sighting, not offering a one hundred 316 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:18.319 percent conclusive identification for the strange light that appeared over both New Mexico and Arizona. 317 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:23.680 But after seeing the photos, it looks pretty clearly to be a research 318 00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:27.759 balloon, one of the huge kind that NASA uses. Yeah. Well, 319 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:30.279 and I think you know to your point. And we've seen this on the 320 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:36.680 news here in Arizona because of that fireball that everybody saw the other day. 321 00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:40.799 People are watching the sky's a lot and they're showing the news is showing people 322 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:45.279 out with their telescopes and stuff looking so they can hopefully see something like this. 323 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:49.000 And definitely watch the skies people, because you know, I'm for better 324 00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:52.680 or worse. Try to keep my eyes in the sky a lot and I 325 00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:55.119 get I see it. I remember a friend of mine. I told him, 326 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:56.759 you know, you can see a shooting star every night. He's like, 327 00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:00.599 no, sir, he just never looks right. And if you look, 328 00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:04.160 you'll see stuff. And there was recently an article on MSNBC or it 329 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:11.759 was CBS News. It was written by life science dot com Benjamin Radford talking 330 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.279 about how there's been a spike in UFO sightings reports. Yeah, and he 331 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:21.519 mentioned Clifford Cliff from MOUF on the Mutual UFO Network, who explained that or 332 00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:25.480 tried to explain it, and said that you know, it's likely that because 333 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:30.759 there have been so many movies related to UFOs lately things like that caused people 334 00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:33.839 to look up at the sky more when they don't normally look at the guy 335 00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:37.200 and see the lights that are there all the time. And you know, 336 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:41.599 so it doesn't necessarily mean that UFO sidings are they're more in number. It's 337 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:45.559 just that people are actually looking to see what's there, so more people are 338 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:48.039 seeing the same objects. But yeah, I need to update my database so 339 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:51.880 we can get a better idea of where those sightings are and when, and 340 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:55.079 that's something I want to do hopefully this week, so we can get a 341 00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:56.799 story out and talk about that. Yeah, but definitely look at the sky 342 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.799 people, There's so much up there. If you do take some time and 343 00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:03.079 look up at the sky, you'll see something. There's lots of interesting things 344 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:04.559 in the sky. But Lehondro. That is it for the news for today. 345 00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:08.160 Remember to check out these stories and many many more at openminds dot tv, 346 00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:11.440 your source for UFO related news. I'm Jason McLellan, your Open Minds 347 00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:15.480 News correspondent, and you've been briefed back to you Alandro. All right, 348 00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:19.799 thank you, Jason. A couple of stories that we want to cover real 349 00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:23.759 quick that we've gotten on the news. Charlie Hickson, of course passed away. 350 00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:26.640 I think we talked about that last week. But this is a guy 351 00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:33.279 who was involved with the Pascagoula UFO abduction to very credible case, and of 352 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:37.599 course everybody's got a story on this, including you know, major media outlets 353 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:44.720 are writing about him passing away. But we through Antonio Juneias, he had 354 00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:49.480 an old transcript from one of his speaking engagements, so we posted that transcript 355 00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:53.880 on there with some rare pictures of Hickson talking, so you can get some 356 00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:59.960 more information about that case. A very very interesting case, so you'll have 357 00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:03.799 to check that out. So that's one of the cool things that we've written 358 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:08.599 about lately that you'll need to take a look at. But we need to 359 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:17.279 get to our interview, so let's go ahead and without further ADO talk with 360 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:25.160 Leslie Kane. I am super happy to have Leslie Kane on the line. 361 00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:26.839 Leslie, are you there, I'm here. Great to be with you. 362 00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:33.799 Alejandro, it is good to talk to you. Are twenty eleven Eupologists of 363 00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:40.039 the Year. You got the award at the UFO Congress, and I greatly 364 00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:44.960 appreciated that. It was really fun and really what you've done this year. 365 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.519 I think you weren't getting it at I don't think we're gonna do, you 366 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:51.559 know, give it to two people or the same person twice in a row. 367 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.799 But I think you deserve it. I don't know about that, but 368 00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:02.039 thank you for saying that. No, I think you've been up to and 369 00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:04.880 you know, with a History Channel covering the book and all the parts of 370 00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:10.839 it, this is all so important and I think it's moving the field in 371 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.480 the right direction. Well great, yeah, thanks, And I do think 372 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.519 the History Channel, I mean, and I you know, production was really 373 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:19.440 good and I take my hats off to the filmmakers who were really the ones 374 00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:26.839 responsible for creating it. And I'm just happy it was so well received by 375 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:32.640 people in the UFO field who know the subject. Yeah. Yeah, I 376 00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:36.000 think I won't get into the cases a little later, but let's talk about 377 00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:41.240 some of the attention that it's gotten lately, and especially the History Channel. 378 00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:45.759 How did that happen? Did they approach you with the idem? Well, 379 00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:51.079 this film company called Breakthrough Films are actually composed of people that I've known for 380 00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:56.680 years because they've been sort of following my work and Bud Hopkins's work for i'd 381 00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.519 say the last five years. And they've done a lot of filming of both 382 00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:03.039 of us, but never really put anything together. So I knew them very 383 00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:08.119 well. When my book became a best seller last August, they decided they 384 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:11.680 wanted to make a pitch to the History Channel actually to do something based on 385 00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:15.880 the book. So they pitched, you know, a TV special based on 386 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:19.079 this best selling book and got the job very quickly. And so they were 387 00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:23.160 basically commissioned by the History Channel to do this, and they had quite a 388 00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:27.559 lot of freedom to do it, you know, with creative license that they 389 00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:32.880 are used to, although of course the difference is they're making this thing for 390 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:37.799 television and every other piece they've done has been a feature length theatrical release, 391 00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:41.839 documentary. I mean, they're really accomplished filmmakers. So this, yeah, 392 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:45.799 they've they're award winning. They did a film about Joan Rivers the Summer a 393 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:48.519 couple of years ago. It was called Joan Rivers, a piece of work 394 00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:52.599 that some people may have seen or heard of. That was a national theatrical 395 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.559 release and it got rave reviews all over the country. You know, they're 396 00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:00.839 really filmmakers, and this is the first time they'd actually done made for TV 397 00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:04.480 piece and there are certain requirements that you have to fill, of course, 398 00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:07.319 when you're working for a TV channel that you know, you wouldn't have to 399 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:11.440 fulfill if you were working on your own, and so there were certain compromises 400 00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.079 that had to be made just just for the you know, to satisfy the 401 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:21.440 requirements that the History Channel had for a television show. And there might have 402 00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:23.400 been certain things we might have done slightly differently if we had the option, 403 00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:29.440 but basically within the confines of having to do a commercial television piece. I 404 00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:33.319 think they did a really good job, and you know, I think everything 405 00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:36.960 came out very well by and large. Yeah. Well, and luckily they 406 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:41.519 got, which is not really typical, a two hour show, so they 407 00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:47.039 got a lot of time, absolutely two hours with a lot of commercials. 408 00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:49.240 But so yeah, I agree, and I was, you know, I 409 00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:52.720 was intimately involved with the production from the beginning, so I was really one 410 00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:57.240 of the producers on it and worked closely with them and was really responsible for 411 00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:02.519 lining up the interviews. You know, a lot of these more sensitive witnesses 412 00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:06.920 wouldn't necessarily agree to be part of a piece unless they trusted the people involved 413 00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:11.039 that were making it. So because of my relationships with these witnesses. You 414 00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:15.599 know, they were willing to participate, and you know, I did a 415 00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:19.920 lot of make sure things were accurate, helped the filmmakers design the interviews, 416 00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:23.559 talk to them about what points were important to bring out with each case, 417 00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:26.480 and all that kind of stuff. So I was sort of their resource for 418 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:32.599 information and for connections to the people that we needed to film. And it 419 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:34.519 was a really fun adventure and I you know, got to travel to Europe 420 00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:37.799 and go to a lot of different places with the crew, and it was 421 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.559 learned a lot about documentary filmmaking. It was really interesting. But I think 422 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:45.680 they did a very good rendition of the cases that they covered. Yeah, 423 00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.759 they did great renditions. And for people who aren't aware, it's called secret 424 00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:53.440 access UFOs on the record. If they want to find that or go look 425 00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.359 it up on the History Channel to see when it'll be on next you can 426 00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:00.920 probably start on them. Eventually they're making a DVD. I don't know how 427 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:05.079 long it will take. I know that it was on YouTube for people who 428 00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:07.839 don't have a History Channel. I you know, I hate to think of 429 00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:12.200 people watching it on YouTube because the quality is so inferior. But I know 430 00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:15.880 a lot of people that that's been their only option. Yeah, I don't 431 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.559 know if you think there if on YouTube like like full HD, it looks 432 00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.200 great. Actually, I don't think are good. Well, there's an option 433 00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:27.559 for people. I think probably the History Channel wouldn't be happy with me for 434 00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:30.400 making that announcement. Yeah, I didn't want to suggest it, but so 435 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:32.960 I'm glad you did. But it's there, So what can you do? 436 00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.079 You know? Yeah, it is Yep, that's what happens. So it's 437 00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:38.480 great. Yeah, people will be able to watch it there and we'll get 438 00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:43.599 into some of the details there. But that's definitely a good score. And 439 00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:47.720 I mean these people who they took it very seriously. Which History Channel really, 440 00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:52.839 I think it's been a pioneer when it's come to covering UFOs because they've 441 00:32:52.880 --> 00:33:00.599 taken it serious longer than probably any other channel. I think that's interesting. 442 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:02.759 Didn't I didn't actually know that, but I know you monitor these things very 443 00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:07.480 carefully, so I'm happy to know that. And they did not require that 444 00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:12.319 we have any debunkers in this show, right, so I mean, thank 445 00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:15.519 god we didn't have to waste footage, you know, filming these debunkers, 446 00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:20.480 you know, and we didn't have any anybody in that anyway close to that 447 00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:24.720 role in this program, which was I think kind of unusual because usually they 448 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:30.039 do manage to pop into these shows right, and the networks often require it, 449 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.279 but they didn't all right on this one. So we were very happy 450 00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:36.039 about that. Yeah, I'm sure if you were on another channel, especially 451 00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:39.920 National Geographic, they seem to be the worst, like History Channel was, 452 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:45.519 I think some one of the first I remember the first time I saw a 453 00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:49.319 show that didn't have any debunkers, Well, maybe the second. I remember 454 00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:52.440 an old one with NBC, but this one, and there were no debunkers, 455 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:57.039 and I was shocked, because you know, you get you brace yourself 456 00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.559 for the debunkers at the end and some of the silly things they're going to 457 00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:04.480 say at but there weren't any. And this was a Foo Fighter's UFO show 458 00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:08.400 on History Channel. And ever since then, History Channel has excluded the debunkers 459 00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:15.440 but stuck with very credible people that they include. And it was a breath 460 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:19.440 afsh Yeah, that's for sure. Absolutely, that's good and good policy on 461 00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:23.480 their part. How about the filmmakers, were they skeptical or were they really 462 00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:29.159 enthusiastic about the subject They're enthusiastic. I mean, they may, you know, 463 00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:31.360 be slightly reserved about it, but as I said, since I've known 464 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:35.840 them for so long, you know, they've been exposed to this stuff over 465 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:37.519 the years, so it wasn't like it was brand new to them. And 466 00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:43.679 one of the directors, Ricky Stearn's parents, actually had least one sighting, 467 00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:46.679 you know, maybe two, And you know, they all get it that 468 00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:52.039 something's up. They aren't necessarily convinced that they're et and you know, we 469 00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:54.039 don't sit around actually and discuss it that much. Quite honestly, they just 470 00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:59.639 want to make a good movie. But they certainly take the subject seriously absolutely 471 00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:04.400 and certainly don't feel that anything anybody should be ridiculed. And you know, 472 00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.199 as you can tell from the film that they made, and they're very interested 473 00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:10.920 in it, very curious about it, and have wanted for years to do 474 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:14.840 something like this. So the book was sort of a catalyst for them to 475 00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:19.760 actually have a way of sort of honing in on the subject and you know, 476 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:24.000 putting something together. So it was great, and I really respect all 477 00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:28.280 of them. They're a very very talented group of people. Well, that's 478 00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:31.599 one of the great things about the book is that it's kind of like the 479 00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:38.760 new you know, you had Rockefeller put together his briefing, which was great 480 00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:45.199 because you had a listing of great cases and information, which of course Antonio 481 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:49.280 Huns, my colleague, was involved with. And then you had like even 482 00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:52.519 well kind of on the tail of that, and they even kind of started 483 00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:57.320 in the same place you had career. I thought his executive briefing was real 484 00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.920 good. It had a lot of witness testimony. But it's been a while 485 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:06.679 and now with your book, we really have kind of something. That's why 486 00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:10.440 I usually have several copies. It's the perfect thing to give a skeptic or 487 00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:15.400 someone who's just wondering about the subject and kind of curious, wanting to know 488 00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:21.880 if there's some serious stuff going on here. And that's what's great about your 489 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:24.960 book. It really serves an important purpose I think right now. Well, 490 00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.719 thanks and Alejandro, and that's you know, that's really why I wrote it, 491 00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:32.599 was to serve that purpose, to be the sort of definitive book for 492 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:37.320 the person who either knows very little about this or has always held the belief 493 00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.920 that, you know, it's it's just bunk, and I don't think you 494 00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:47.280 can possibly read the book and come away feeling that it's bunk unless you're really, 495 00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:52.079 you know, blind or something. It's just impossible because of the solidity 496 00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:58.039 of the and the validity of the evidence it's presented. So I was hoping 497 00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:00.800 for to serve that purpose, and I think gets you know, that's really 498 00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:05.280 why I wrote it. It really wasn't a book necessarily for the UFO community, 499 00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:07.599 but it was the book for the mainstream and for the people who really 500 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:13.039 don't know anything about the subject. And yes, a great book to give 501 00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:16.360 to skeptics, absolutely if they're just willing to read it. I think the 502 00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:21.440 trick is getting rid right, because I don't think most of them would will. 503 00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:24.320 But you know, I was very happy about Derek Pitts. I don't 504 00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:27.679 know if you know that story. Well, that's what I was going to 505 00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:32.440 say next, because this is one of the most important stories. I think. 506 00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:37.320 This is the kind of thing, this Derek Pitts news that gets me 507 00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.960 extremely excited. But yeah, why don't you explain that? Yeah, I 508 00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:47.079 mean, Derek Pitts is a kind of a public figure astronomer who's the head 509 00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:52.679 astronomer at the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia, which is a very well established Museum, 510 00:37:53.079 --> 00:37:57.320 and it's sort of the Natural History Museum of New York's version, the 511 00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:01.159 Philadelphia version of the Natural History Museum. And he used to go on television 512 00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:05.559 a lot and debunk UFO cases. And the last time I saw him do 513 00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:09.559 that was when Keith Oberman had him on at the O'Hare at the time of 514 00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:13.920 the O'Hare incident, which really wasn't that long ago. It was January of 515 00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:16.800 two thousand and seven. You remember when the Chicago Tribune story came out and 516 00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:21.639 I was monitoring all the media event, and I was so appolled, I 517 00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:24.880 have to say, by Derek the way Derek Pitts handled it when Keith brought 518 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:30.159 him on, because Keith was very sort of taking it seriously, and Derek 519 00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:32.079 Pitts was laughing and saying, oh, they must have been out drinking, 520 00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:36.679 and you know, it was kind of insulting to the witnesses. And I 521 00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:38.679 think he thought that the event had happened on New Year's Eve because it was 522 00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:43.639 January tewod when they covered it. But anyway, you know, so he 523 00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:47.039 never took the subject seriously. And so what happened was last spring they were 524 00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:52.559 having National Astronomy Day in at least he didn't take it seriously when he was 525 00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.000 on television. Let's put it that way. They had National Astronomy Day at 526 00:38:55.039 --> 00:39:00.000 the Philadelphia Institute, the Franklin Institute there, and he invited me to come 527 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:05.639 speak there about the subject. He thought it would draw people to the museum. 528 00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:08.840 And he said, I'd like to have a public dialogue with you back 529 00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:13.760 and forth about it. And I immediately thought, Okay, he wants to 530 00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.639 get me up and debunk me, you know, in public. And so 531 00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:21.639 I said to him, I'm willing to do it under one condition. And 532 00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:25.159 that condition is that you read the whole book, every chapter from Frosty back, 533 00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:29.480 and you promise me that you will actually read the book. If you 534 00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:31.280 promised me that, I'd be delighted to come, and I'd be willing to 535 00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:35.239 discuss anything you want to discuss. But I just need to know that you're 536 00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:37.639 going to read the book. And he promised to read it, and I 537 00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:43.719 trusted him, and I went there, you know, and we our we 538 00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:45.639 greeted each other and everything, and we went right into this public room and 539 00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:49.840 there was a little bit of a small audience there, and he was He 540 00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:53.079 let me talk for a while first about the book in the background of it 541 00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:57.639 and so on, just sort of do my thing for maybe twenty minutes, 542 00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:00.320 and then he came up on the stage and a le hundre. He was 543 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:05.599 so incredibly supportive. He said he had been completely transformed by this book. 544 00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:08.880 He was asking me all these really smart questions and saying, like, gosh, 545 00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:13.440 I don't understand why the scientific community isn't more involved? Is how could 546 00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:15.559 they not want to look into this? And he was just blown away by 547 00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:20.440 the subject and blown away by the cases in the book. And it was 548 00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:25.159 a completely transformed I mean, you know, a full full transformation there. 549 00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:29.800 And we you know, we're good friends, I mean he was. He 550 00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:35.280 was warm and friendly and supportive and respectful and really honored the issue in a 551 00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:38.119 big way in the UFO issue is being valid. And then he wrote and 552 00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:40.800 so then I approached him a couple of months later and asked him to write 553 00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:45.800 a blurb endorsing my book, which he did for the paperback release which came 554 00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:49.559 out in August. So to me, it's sort of an example of what 555 00:40:49.639 --> 00:40:53.920 can happen when a skeptic actually reads the damn book. You know exactly, 556 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.519 it's so good, You asked him to read the book, and he did 557 00:40:57.559 --> 00:41:00.599 it, because that's the big problem I'm and I even read, well, 558 00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:05.719 yeah, fairly recently, about a year ago, I talked with says Shostack 559 00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:07.920 because he was in town, and you know, he made one of the 560 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:12.920 typical arguments, there are no astronomers, and I said, well, sure, 561 00:41:13.000 --> 00:41:15.480 you know, there's Peter Sturick's book, which talks about a lot of 562 00:41:15.559 --> 00:41:20.559 US astronomers. He didn't know who that was, he I mean, and 563 00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:22.840 I asked, you have you read any UFO books and he said, well, 564 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:28.360 and just like Stanton Friedman likes Tobos because he did read one of Stanton's 565 00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:31.760 books. But that's about all the which one, because you know they're they 566 00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:37.599 don't always all cover the whole issue, right, So he he speaks so 567 00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:44.599 much about this subject out in the public without having done any research. He 568 00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:49.320 can't do that in astronomy. He can't go talk about black holes without researching 569 00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:53.440 black holes. It's surprising that they do this. So it's and it's wonderful 570 00:41:53.559 --> 00:42:00.400 that you've got him to read the book. And he obviously was taken aback. 571 00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:05.800 He was really impacted by it and completely gets it. He just got 572 00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:09.239 it. He got the fact that there's something real going on here and it 573 00:42:09.679 --> 00:42:13.400 should be investigated by scientists. And he was saying, to me, let 574 00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:15.079 me think what I can do to you know, we got to mobilize the 575 00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:19.679 scientific community here. He's saying these kinds of things. You know, he 576 00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:22.800 really got the point and it was just very, very satisfying. Yeah. 577 00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:29.679 I don't understand about Seth Shostak either, how he could feel comfortable. And 578 00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:34.360 I'm surprised, you know, saying all that he does without looking into anything. 579 00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:37.159 I mean, it's good to know that he hasn't read anything, because 580 00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:39.519 that's the point that people can make in debates with him. And he was 581 00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:44.519 actually willing to admit that to you. Yeah, he's pretty willing. I 582 00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:46.960 even asked him, you know, you know, would you be willing to 583 00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:51.079 help out in this field, like if someone sent you, you know, 584 00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:53.719 UFO sidings or what you thought about this or that? And he said, 585 00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:58.079 oh, yeah, I'm very open to that. It's just nobody has asked 586 00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:04.239 me. Usually they're they're just angry at me, and I just usually converse 587 00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:07.639 with, you know, the skeptics. So he seemed open. He always 588 00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:13.280 seems like a nice guy. He's a very bright witted guy, very personable. 589 00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:19.679 So maybe if he was pressed to read more he would, but and 590 00:43:19.719 --> 00:43:22.199 he's open. Yeah, he's ready to admit that I just haven't read much. 591 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.880 Well, he did interview me on his radio show. You know, 592 00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:30.039 they said he has a radio program, and I know he had there, 593 00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:32.159 and it was all about the book, so he must have. I think 594 00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:35.880 he read the chapter on O'Hare. He might have been the only chapter he 595 00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:38.280 read, but he was. You know, he must have read, because 596 00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:43.480 he focused a lot on that particular case during my interviews, so that he 597 00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.320 had my book and he claims. In fact, I think some people emailed 598 00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:49.800 him and asked him, have you read Leslie Kane's book, and he said 599 00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:53.280 yes. Whether he did or not, I don't know, but probably not 600 00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:57.079 all of it. But at least I know that, you know, he 601 00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:00.360 had it and he interviewed me, so he's at least aware of the book. 602 00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:07.039 Yeah. But you know, I don't think there's any motivation really on 603 00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:10.360 his part too. He doesn't want to be convinced that UFOs should be taken 604 00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:15.639 seriously. That's the very I think that'd be very inconvenient for people at SETI 605 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:19.079 who want to stay on the paths if they're on. Yeah, you know, 606 00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:22.719 they don't want to have to be have some radical change come into the 607 00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:28.559 way they're approaching things. Yeah. Another good example, although I did want 608 00:44:28.599 --> 00:44:31.960 to mention something else about Pitts, But another good example of someone getting into 609 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:37.760 trouble, well at least with the UFO community unfortunately, probably not with his 610 00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:45.039 peers is Oberg when he wrote the piece about your book and had obviously not 611 00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:49.559 read the book because all of his arguments were things that really didn't have anything 612 00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:52.599 to do with your book. That's true. They didn't even apply. It 613 00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:55.440 was really basically one argument and it didn't apply right. True. And I 614 00:44:55.480 --> 00:45:00.480 don't know why he would do that because he just it's so selfisfee. Yeah, 615 00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:02.960 for him to do something like that, I don't know why he would 616 00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:08.159 because it just gives me an opportunity to write a rebuttal that makes them look 617 00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:12.760 foolish. Yeah, it's shocking, and thank goodness they did print your rebuttal. 618 00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:16.559 But it probably gives some of these guys, you know, like Chasnak 619 00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:20.239 or maybe not him, but someone similar to say, oh, look, 620 00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:24.119 my buddy Oberg was able to explain everything in the book. So I don't 621 00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:28.880 have to read the book now, because you know, it's all I've been 622 00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:34.079 figured out, even though of course he didn't explain anything right. The other 623 00:45:34.119 --> 00:45:38.039 thing I wanted to mention, though, at least to give you more praise, 624 00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:43.639 well, thank you. He's very very nice of you with the Derek 625 00:45:43.719 --> 00:45:46.800 Pitts thing, because I think really the biggest key at this point, this 626 00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:52.199 is my personal feeling in goal is that getting this credible information out. I 627 00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:59.920 think that the public is taking note, but more that these conventional mainstream institutions 628 00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:05.559 need to get involved with this research. And when you're reaching people like Derek 629 00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:13.760 Pitts and Mitchell Okaku and John Podesta like you obviously are that that when we're 630 00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:16.840 able to add someone like a Derek Pitts to the list of the people who 631 00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:22.800 are advocating this build out there, that is so tremendously important and brings us 632 00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:25.840 one step closer to that goal. Well good, I'm glad that you know, 633 00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:29.320 so the book can be used to do that, and I hope it 634 00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:32.320 can continue to do so, and I'm very pleased about it. We got 635 00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:36.440 a long way to go, though, yeah, that's for sure, but 636 00:46:36.519 --> 00:46:39.719 at least baby steps is some sort of step in the right path. I 637 00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:43.760 agree. No, I agree, And I've gotten lots of letters from your 638 00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:50.000 emails from scientists and academicians and people, you know, some stature who have 639 00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:53.159 been had a similar experience that Derek Pitts had just written to me about how 640 00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:59.000 they've never taken UFO seriously but after reading the book, they've been transformed, 641 00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:04.719 and you know a lot of them were are people in standing in positions is 642 00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:08.639 important. So it's you know, I'm pleased with the response, but I 643 00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:14.360 still feel like we need some kind of larger breakthrough that we're not getting yet. 644 00:47:15.320 --> 00:47:20.199 But I'm going to keep working it trying to make that happen. So 645 00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:24.480 now with Mitchio, he did do he and Derek Picks know each other at 646 00:47:24.519 --> 00:47:29.199 all? I have no idea. I really have no idea. I sort 647 00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:34.719 of wouldn't necessarily think they do. But you know, Michio Koku was really 648 00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:38.239 like the superstar guy who's doing all the TV and you know, writing these 649 00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:44.039 best selling books, and he's very inaccessible, hard to reach. Yeah, 650 00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:49.119 travels a lot lectures all over the place, and I think Derek is much 651 00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:54.480 more just focused on running his museum. Mio came down to Philadelphia, and 652 00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:58.800 he went to the museum. I have no idea. Yeah, okay, 653 00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:06.800 I was just curious about that. But because Mitchello certainly has been very strong 654 00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:10.880 in his support of your book and to me, you know, I recently 655 00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:17.159 posted something on my Huffington Post bog and I included this clip with mitchell O 656 00:48:17.239 --> 00:48:23.079 Kaku where he is really kind of just really going going at it to support 657 00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:27.960 your book and to talk about how important it was. Yeah. Yeah, 658 00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:30.800 and it wasn't. I was so pleased. Oh my god, you can 659 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:34.800 imagine how I felt when I saw that. Yeah, I would be floored. 660 00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:39.119 Yeah, I was floored, really floored, because he's really basically like 661 00:48:39.159 --> 00:48:43.320 a review. They asked him to come on and review the book. He 662 00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:46.840 gave it a rave, So what more could I ask for? Yeah, 663 00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:52.960 and even defended the topic, you know, being very open about how important 664 00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:58.239 it is to pay attention and how important I mean not backing down. I 665 00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:01.639 mean that the interviewer definitely gave him some out to kind of, but he 666 00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:06.760 wouldn't back down that it's an important subject in how your book exemplifies that. 667 00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.559 Yeah, Well he's great. He's been really really great to do that. 668 00:49:09.719 --> 00:49:15.199 I have to say, Well, getting past some of those parts, I 669 00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:22.159 guess, getting into some of the parts of the book, or are some 670 00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:28.079 of the stuff that was in the show. I guess you had mentioned Chicago 671 00:49:28.360 --> 00:49:31.519 hair one thing. You know, it's great to see the graphics that they 672 00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:37.599 did on the show. They really did a great job with some of the 673 00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:43.280 special effects. Yeah, I liked them too. I wasn't happy with the 674 00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.000 Chicago hair graphic though, and they knew that because I had told him that. 675 00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:51.599 So oh really, I just thought that the one shot of the you 676 00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:52.760 know, this is going to be boring to people that haven't seen it, 677 00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:57.920 but of the disc covering right above gates C seventeen above the tower, I 678 00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:01.880 just thought the disc looked like it was too low and too large. Okay, 679 00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:07.000 but you know, I'm very picky about these kinds of things. Most 680 00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:09.840 people probably wouldn't notice. But I love the one they had of the thing 681 00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:14.000 coming to the cloud bank. It was from above the cloud bank. I 682 00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:16.119 don't know if you remember that, So I thought by and Lord, I 683 00:50:16.119 --> 00:50:20.480 thought that the graphics were really great too. Yeah, and I thought the 684 00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:23.559 recreations they did were good too. They were not Yeah, with that Chicago 685 00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:25.280 hair. I get to your point. I kind of felt that way. 686 00:50:25.320 --> 00:50:28.920 At the same time, I thought, you know, with perspectives and stuff, 687 00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:30.639 it would be kind of hard, and it did look so cool. 688 00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:37.880 And this was just to remind people on November seventh at Chicago hair Airport, 689 00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:44.119 where people at the United gate and people who worked for United had spotted a 690 00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:50.360 UFO hovering right over the airport at rush hour, the neest time of the 691 00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:53.239 day, afternoon rush hour, just sitting there, yep. And you know, 692 00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:55.880 of course it was a safety hazard, but that didn't really seem to 693 00:50:55.880 --> 00:51:00.320 bother the FAA, which never investigated it or or paid attention to the witness 694 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:06.079 reports. And the other amazing thing about it was not just that it hovered 695 00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:08.559 for a while, but then it shot up straight through the clouds and cut 696 00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:13.599 a crisp clear hole in the cloud bank above it, which you know, 697 00:51:13.719 --> 00:51:16.280 the witnesses pointed out, we don't have any aircraft that could do something like 698 00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:20.440 that and cut a round hole in a cloud like that, So it was 699 00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:25.360 obviously giving off some kind of powerful radiation. They're you know, doing something 700 00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:31.480 that would allow that hole to be created like that with this really clear outline 701 00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:37.400 and it so that's another really interesting aspect of it. Yeah, And on 702 00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:43.880 the show they had some radio chatter. Were they United employees? Yeah, 703 00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:45.559 I mean there was this one tape in particular, and there were lots of 704 00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:49.199 There was lots of chatter back and forth on the ground, you know, 705 00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:54.119 like pilots in their cockpits and people that were moving airplanes from one rate one 706 00:51:54.199 --> 00:51:57.639 rate to another, you know, people talking to each other. That was 707 00:51:57.639 --> 00:52:01.360 going on. But the most important tape is the one of the United Nations 708 00:52:01.519 --> 00:52:08.800 manager, United Nations United Airlines manager calling into the tower. And the manager's 709 00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:14.519 name was Sue and this poor woman was just trying to call in to report 710 00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:17.559 that there was a disc that was she says it. She was asking the 711 00:52:17.599 --> 00:52:23.039 tower, have you seen a disc covering over Charlie c seventeen Gate Sea seventeen? 712 00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:28.480 They call it Charlie seventeen, I guess anyway, And the guy in 713 00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:31.199 the tower was laughing at her and it became sort of this joke and she 714 00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:35.760 had to convince him that she was hadn't been high and it wasn't drinking, 715 00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:39.159 and you know, it was sort of like she had to laugh along with 716 00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:44.000 him in order to have the conversation keep going. It was just a very 717 00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:47.159 sad thing to listen to, because but very very revealing about the attitudes that 718 00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:52.400 we have about the subject matter. Because even though this thing was happening in 719 00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:57.559 real time, there was actually something hovering above the airport that you know, 720 00:52:57.639 --> 00:53:00.559 couldn't be communicated with. Nobody knew what it was, what it was going 721 00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:02.519 to do, or why it was there. It didn't even look like an 722 00:53:02.559 --> 00:53:07.280 airplane. And yet the guy in the tower was just laughing about it because 723 00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:12.440 she said it was a UFO ye. And it's very interesting to listen to 724 00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:16.320 before, just to you know, as a kind of a metaphor for where 725 00:53:16.360 --> 00:53:21.679 our aviation community is at when it comes to taking this seriously. Yeah, 726 00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:24.519 I mean when I became an investigator, I was shocked. The first case 727 00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:31.079 that I that I investigated, this witness had just gotten back from Iraq. 728 00:53:31.719 --> 00:53:37.320 He was a security guard. When he was doing his rounds outside, he 729 00:53:37.400 --> 00:53:40.559 saw this object in you know, Overlookout Mountain in Denver, which is on 730 00:53:40.639 --> 00:53:46.239 the flight path to commercial planes, and you know, this weird lozenge type 731 00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:51.679 of thing that was doing weird things in the sky. He went inside, 732 00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:54.360 came out later and he saw it again and he was shocked that it was 733 00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:58.639 still there, and he thought, wow, you know, he realized that's 734 00:53:58.679 --> 00:54:00.800 in the flight path. I should call the IA and tell him. And 735 00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:06.000 it was, like he said, part of his training to report unknown. 736 00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:08.360 So he calls in, they don't pay attention. He called everybody, and 737 00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:13.239 nobody paid attention to him. And he was really floored that. You know, 738 00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:17.159 he just got out of Iraq, where you know, you need to 739 00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:22.519 let people know if something hired is going on, and it's a big deal 740 00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:25.599 when something's going on like that, and of course in Iraq it's a life 741 00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:30.800 threatening thing. But so he was surprised that we were the first ones to 742 00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:32.880 take him serious or even to listen to him at all. Well, I'm 743 00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:36.559 glad you were there for him, and you're right. I mean, you 744 00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:38.320 know, you have to raise the issue of what if it's some kind of 745 00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:45.719 terrorist activity or some kind of foreign probe or drone or something like that that 746 00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:47.679 we don't really know about. I mean, you know, it seems very 747 00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:52.760 dangerous to ignore these things outright. It seems irrational. I even called that, 748 00:54:54.519 --> 00:54:58.599 Yeah you did. That was the first time I called them, and 749 00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:00.840 I said, you know, you know, to find out about this, 750 00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:05.800 and I had to keep calling in hound to get someone to pay attention, 751 00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:07.639 and they kept saying, oh, called, you know this line, Peter 752 00:55:07.719 --> 00:55:14.119 Davenport's line and let him know. And I think, else what they do, 753 00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:16.719 That's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for. Did you detect 754 00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:21.840 something? I mean? I was also shocked that they're not taking this serious 755 00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:24.880 when, like you said, especially these days, right, And they actually 756 00:55:24.920 --> 00:55:29.000 say in their manual, you know the FAA, which I which I've written 757 00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:30.360 about in my book. You know, they actually have it there in black 758 00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:34.800 and white, and the FAA manual, which is the employee manual for all 759 00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:37.880 everyone who works for you know, who works in aviation, and it says 760 00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:42.320 there, if you see and this is in their safety section, and it 761 00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:45.559 says, if you see a UFO, do not report it to the FAA. 762 00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:51.079 Report it to Peter Davenport or some other organization. And it says even 763 00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:55.400 if it's life threatening, they're told that the FAA does not want to have 764 00:55:55.480 --> 00:55:59.239 it reported to them. But I had to ask to go to a civilian 765 00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:04.079 research group. And every other type of safety hazard you could imagine, everything, 766 00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:07.400 no matter how obscure, is fine. They want the FAA wants those 767 00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:12.440 to be reported, but not UFOs. They're like in a whole separate category. 768 00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:17.199 And you talk about irrationality, Yeah, the word to describe that kind 769 00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:21.400 of you know, and it's right there. They're not trying to hide it. 770 00:56:22.159 --> 00:56:28.400 So it's quite shocking. Yeah. Now in that radio chatter you're talking 771 00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:30.960 about where the lady called the tower, she also mentioned a picture that someone 772 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:35.519 took, a picture they were looking at that looked just like what they were 773 00:56:35.559 --> 00:56:39.280 seeing. Deep as far as I know, none of these pictures that were 774 00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:45.719 taken have surface. That's correct. I mean, she said there was a 775 00:56:45.719 --> 00:56:49.000 picture taken. That's all she says. She doesn't really go into any description 776 00:56:49.119 --> 00:56:52.280 of it, but she says there was a picture taken, and you're right, 777 00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:53.840 it never surfaced. I mean, there were a couple of phony pictures 778 00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:59.000 of surface that they were proven to be hoaxes. So and nobody's ever been 779 00:56:59.039 --> 00:57:00.480 able to reach this one. And Sue, I mean, we tried to 780 00:57:00.519 --> 00:57:04.840 find her making the film. Yeah, we thought we knew what her last 781 00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:08.519 name is. We looked it up. We couldn't find her. You know, 782 00:57:08.679 --> 00:57:12.559 I don't think I just it's very very hard. I mean, we 783 00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:15.639 really did try. We maybe could have tried a little more, but we 784 00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:20.119 didn't have time. But you know, so no one. Her comment about 785 00:57:20.159 --> 00:57:23.880 the picture, you're right, is really intriguing, But no picture. And 786 00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:28.199 you know, we don't know if she saw the picture or if somebody told 787 00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:30.519 her there was a picture, because she doesn't say that. She just says 788 00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:35.360 there was a picture. So and it was just for me. This case, 789 00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:38.840 you did have like an anonymous witness. Yeah, I mean there were 790 00:57:38.920 --> 00:57:43.119 quite a few witnesses, but not one would put their name on the record. 791 00:57:43.159 --> 00:57:45.960 That's the interesting thing about this case. I'd say there were ten to 792 00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:51.199 thirteen witnesses that actually have spoken to investigators. Obviously there were a lot more 793 00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:55.239 that didn't speak to investigators. Because those witnesses could tell us. I know 794 00:57:55.320 --> 00:58:00.280 that all these other people thought too. But the ones that did speak out 795 00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:04.320 about or to filled in reports. A couple of them actually did written reports 796 00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:08.800 for Peter Davenport like they were supposed to do. None of them would give 797 00:58:08.840 --> 00:58:14.239 their names. And I again, just like the tape was such an interesting 798 00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:16.639 metaphor for the whole problem that we've got, I think the same is true 799 00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:20.559 for the fact that none of them would go on the record. It's just 800 00:58:20.599 --> 00:58:25.559 a statement, an illustration of how far behind we are in this country in 801 00:58:25.639 --> 00:58:30.480 terms of our official handling of the UFO cases. But these people were also 802 00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:35.280 worried about job security that even though there was a safety hazard at the airport, 803 00:58:35.320 --> 00:58:37.599 they didn't even dare report it, They didn't dare go on the record 804 00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:44.239 with their names because for fear of job security. Really, and you know, 805 00:58:44.320 --> 00:58:46.800 it's really a sad statement as to the state of affairs that we have 806 00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:50.639 here, I think, And I mean you compare that to what goes on 807 00:58:50.679 --> 00:58:53.360 in other countries. Of course, you see, there's a real difference that 808 00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:58.719 other countries, they don't seem to have these problems reporting things. So I 809 00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:00.360 think it's a really sad state, mister, you know, because that was 810 00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:04.480 really one of the more recent cases. I mean, we had Stevensville after 811 00:59:04.519 --> 00:59:07.840 that, but this was a very clear, one time, you know, 812 00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:13.880 case that took place at an airport with aviation personnel involved, and not one 813 00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:19.519 of them willing to give their names. That's really a sad situation, I 814 00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:22.119 think it is. And it goes back to I think it was even the 815 00:59:22.199 --> 00:59:29.679 Robertson panel back in the what sixties where they had discussed this could be a 816 00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:37.199 problem, a debunking of UFOs and stuff that they won't get vital intelligence about 817 00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:40.639 possible enemy graph. True. I mean, I think that it's got to 818 00:59:40.679 --> 00:59:43.719 be a concern, and that's one of the I think that's one of that 819 00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:46.280 Nick Pope has made that point too, that in terms of a defense issue 820 00:59:46.400 --> 00:59:50.599 or a national security issue, one of the roles that the public can play 821 00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:53.440 is that they may end up reporting some kind of drone, you know, 822 00:59:53.559 --> 00:59:58.639 that they think it's a UFO or some kind of foreign aircraft that we might 823 00:59:58.679 --> 01:00:01.199 want to know about, and therefore or the public and pay a role in 824 01:00:01.320 --> 01:00:06.159 terms of, you know, keeping an eye out for strange things in the 825 01:00:06.199 --> 01:00:09.320 sky which could be a benefit to the government to know about. But I 826 01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:15.440 think the irrational sort of distaste they have for dealing with UFOs overrides any kind 827 01:00:15.440 --> 01:00:21.639 of possible benefit they might want to derive from public involvement with this, so 828 01:00:21.679 --> 01:00:25.320 they just try to make it all go away. Yeah. Now, I 829 01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:32.280 guess moving on to another subject is another government that did a UFO investigation but 830 01:00:32.400 --> 01:00:40.000 did a really great job is in Belgium in the nineties, the Triangle UFO 831 01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:52.559 wave, And of course you had General debrauer On talking about that and he 832 01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:54.760 was go ahead, go ahead. I don't know if you want me to 833 01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:59.079 just pick it up or you have more to say. Well, I was 834 01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:02.320 going to say, of course, the controversy now is around the picture, 835 01:01:02.360 --> 01:01:06.800 and I know you've been asked a lot about that, but that's probably also 836 01:01:06.840 --> 01:01:12.039 because you're the latest person to have contact with the Brower so you're probably are 837 01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:16.760 us expert on Oh my god, I wouldn't quite. I don't know. 838 01:01:16.840 --> 01:01:22.199 Maybe I don't know, but you know, yeah, I mean basically, 839 01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:24.960 you know, Patrick Farron, who was in the History Channel documentary, who 840 01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:30.440 was originally with SOBEPS back at the time of one of the lead investigators at 841 01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:34.199 the time of the waves, is the person who has really been well, 842 01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:37.119 he's one of the people who has been trying to come to terms and you 843 01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:40.800 know, do some investigating on this issue with the photograph. Another one is 844 01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:47.960 Professor Mason, and you know who's very involved. He's a highly educated I 845 01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:52.960 think he's a physicist who was in Belgium and doctor General de Brower is certainly 846 01:01:52.960 --> 01:01:57.840 in conversation with these folks, but he's not actually actively investigating this. But 847 01:01:57.920 --> 01:02:00.719 you know, so I recently talked to Patrick and I sort of got an 848 01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:02.519 update on what was going on, which I put on my Facebook page, 849 01:02:02.519 --> 01:02:05.920 and I hope people will go in, go on and read it, because 850 01:02:06.280 --> 01:02:10.800 we're having a very lively discussion in my discussion section about this picture. And 851 01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:15.800 basically, you know, it looks like basically as people know, the photographer, 852 01:02:15.840 --> 01:02:20.480 whose name is Patrick Marischal, has come out all these years later and 853 01:02:20.559 --> 01:02:23.840 stated that he hoaxed this photograph and that it was made with a styrofoam model. 854 01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:30.320 The object was made with a styrofilm model hanging from a wire, and 855 01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:34.119 you know, it was of course a huge shock for all of us to 856 01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:38.119 hear that. The issue is that there's a lot, a lot of questions 857 01:02:38.119 --> 01:02:44.920 that remain unanswered that at least raise the possibility that perhaps he's not telling the 858 01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:47.559 truth. Now we have to operate under the assumption at this point that he 859 01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:52.119 is that this picture was a hoax, and certainly nobody's going to go ahead 860 01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:54.360 and use it. I would never use it for anything, you know, 861 01:02:54.400 --> 01:03:00.519 I've taken it off my website. But you know, he's been completely discredited 862 01:03:00.519 --> 01:03:05.079 because he's either lying now or he was lying then, so he's a liar. 863 01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:08.039 But the bottom line is there a whole lot of points which I've listed 864 01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:15.840 on my site, my Facebook site that suggests that possibility, because just for 865 01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:21.360 instance, you know, he's in a fight right now with the guy who 866 01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:23.599 owns the copyright to a photograph and he wants to take him to court and 867 01:03:23.679 --> 01:03:28.639 try to get all this money from him. And he sold the copyright to 868 01:03:28.440 --> 01:03:31.079 this journalist back at the time that he took the photograph, and he seems 869 01:03:31.079 --> 01:03:37.679 to and they've been fighting, and he's refusing to give out certain contact information 870 01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:40.920 for other witnesses he's been asked. He told investigators that he would recreate the 871 01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:45.199 photograph. He did a recreation, but it didn't look anything like the original 872 01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:52.679 photographs. He's claimed that he has photographs of the model that he made back 873 01:03:52.719 --> 01:03:54.920 then, that he has twelve photographs of that model, and he was asked 874 01:03:54.920 --> 01:03:59.360 to produce them and said he would, and he hasn't. Nobody's seen those 875 01:04:00.599 --> 01:04:03.079 his girlfriend at the time. I don't know if people remember the story, 876 01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:06.880 but when he took the photograph, his girlfriend was there outwalking her dog and 877 01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:10.840 she was the one who first saw the object and ran in to tell him. 878 01:04:10.840 --> 01:04:15.400 That was the story that they gave at the time. Now he refuses 879 01:04:15.440 --> 01:04:18.840 to give investigators the name and contact information of his girlfriend who later became his 880 01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:23.800 wife and is now his ex wife. So, you know, there's a 881 01:04:23.840 --> 01:04:29.199 lot more leads that things that need to be followed up about this. That 882 01:04:29.559 --> 01:04:32.559 there's really no evidence that there was a model. But the evidence he does 883 01:04:32.599 --> 01:04:38.320 have is that there is one other person who has corroborated having seen that model, 884 01:04:38.719 --> 01:04:41.239 and this is one of the people that he worked with at the factory. 885 01:04:41.719 --> 01:04:44.840 He worked at a factory at the time. So given that, you 886 01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:46.159 know, we have to assume that he's telling the truth. But I think 887 01:04:46.199 --> 01:04:51.800 everybody is very interested to find out more about you know, why he can't 888 01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:56.679 recreate the picture? Where are the pictures of the original model? Does he 889 01:04:56.760 --> 01:05:00.320 have a motivation for lying about this right now? Which there seems to be 890 01:05:00.360 --> 01:05:04.760 suggestions that he could have a motivation for doing that. So it's not a 891 01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:10.320 really black and white situation, I don't think, but I'm not about to, 892 01:05:10.599 --> 01:05:14.599 you know, argue that it was that he is lying now. I 893 01:05:14.760 --> 01:05:19.199 just think that door isn't completely closed. The only thing is Alejandro, I 894 01:05:19.239 --> 01:05:23.000 don't remember if you remember in my book, but I have a picture of 895 01:05:23.159 --> 01:05:29.159 the object that it was a professor Marion did this extensive study where he was 896 01:05:29.199 --> 01:05:31.440 able to document this kind of halo effect around the object. I don't know 897 01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:34.679 if you remember that, but it was almost like it had a magnetic field 898 01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:38.920 around it, and you could see that it looked like kind of a magnet 899 01:05:38.920 --> 01:05:42.639 would look if it was attracting iron to it, and you could see this 900 01:05:42.880 --> 01:05:45.559 field around it that he was able to document through his in his computer. 901 01:05:46.519 --> 01:05:50.480 And you'd have to ask, you know, how could a styrofoam object create 902 01:05:50.559 --> 01:05:56.599 a field like that around it itself in a photograph, a field that wasn't 903 01:05:56.599 --> 01:06:00.760 even visible to the naked eye but was able to be discerned on computers. 904 01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:03.760 How was it that so many scientists looked at this photograph and we're not able 905 01:06:03.800 --> 01:06:06.800 to see any signs of it being hoaxed. I mean, they couldn't prove 906 01:06:06.840 --> 01:06:13.639 it wasn't hoaxed, but they certainly stated that they there were indications that they 907 01:06:13.639 --> 01:06:16.800 didn't think it was, and that the qualities of the lights, the characteristics 908 01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:21.079 of the lights were very very unusual. They said it would have been extremely 909 01:06:21.119 --> 01:06:26.280 hard to create those characteristics. You know, if somebody was faking this, 910 01:06:26.480 --> 01:06:30.000 so you know, all these things, it just raises a lot of questions 911 01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:32.480 that I think, I just think it needs further investigation. We need to 912 01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:38.840 you know, hopefully the investigators in Belgium will have the opportunity and the time 913 01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:42.880 to just probe some of these questions further and to go back to some of 914 01:06:42.880 --> 01:06:46.920 those scientists who studied them in the lab. Unfortunately, Professor Marion died and 915 01:06:46.960 --> 01:06:49.440 he was the one that got the halo effect, but maybe they could go 916 01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:53.119 to some other scientists and asked, you know, how could this kind of 917 01:06:53.159 --> 01:06:57.400 effect be created with this diyrophil model. Is it possible? Yeah, So 918 01:06:57.559 --> 01:07:00.960 those kinds of questions haven't been really answered yet, and I think I think 919 01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:05.360 it's it's very very interesting to explore. It will be very interesting to explore 920 01:07:05.400 --> 01:07:11.039 some of these questions further and see what we can learn from this. And 921 01:07:11.199 --> 01:07:13.960 you know, we all have to learn how to be very very discerning when 922 01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:17.960 it comes to photographic evidence of UFOs. I'm all for that, and perhaps, 923 01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:20.639 you know, assuming that this is a fake, I think we all 924 01:07:20.679 --> 01:07:25.519 have we have a lot to learn from it. Oh definitely. I was 925 01:07:25.559 --> 01:07:29.199 shocked when I first read this story. I almost thought that, well, 926 01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:32.400 maybe this isn't the right guy, because I didn't have the name. I 927 01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:38.360 remember when I saw Debre speaking about uh, the photograph, he said that 928 01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:43.039 the name. They wouldn't release the name because the witness had asked not to. 929 01:07:43.599 --> 01:07:46.119 And then in the story you know this guy and this was an interview, 930 01:07:46.159 --> 01:07:50.159 he said he had never made any money off of this picture. And 931 01:07:50.239 --> 01:07:55.800 I knew he had sold the copyright, so that wasn't an accurate statement. 932 01:07:57.199 --> 01:07:59.639 Well, yeah, he probably. Well what he meant was, you know, 933 01:07:59.719 --> 01:08:01.679 over all the years that it's been published, the money didn't go to 934 01:08:01.760 --> 01:08:05.480 him because he sold the copyright. But at one point he did make money 935 01:08:05.480 --> 01:08:10.119 off of it. He said he didn't make anything. Yeah, that's true. 936 01:08:10.159 --> 01:08:12.880 When he sold the copyright, he certainly made I don't think he sold 937 01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:15.079 it, probably for very much at the time. And now we'll get back 938 01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:19.520 he's he's mad that he's somebody else has made money on it. And you 939 01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:25.720 know, you could you could draw the it's a possibility anyway that one way 940 01:08:25.760 --> 01:08:28.600 he could get back at this guy who's made all the money is to tell 941 01:08:28.600 --> 01:08:30.880 the guy, well, this photographs a hoax, so you're not going to 942 01:08:30.920 --> 01:08:34.600 make any more money off of it, that's for sure. Undertaking, you 943 01:08:34.640 --> 01:08:39.039 know, I mean you could you could conceive of that happening. You know, 944 01:08:39.239 --> 01:08:42.600 I'm not saying that's what's going on, but it certainly within the realm 945 01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:45.680 of possibility. Anyway. Well, the other thing that struck me was how 946 01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:53.359 much gall of this guy would have to have to perpetrate this hoax on the 947 01:08:53.359 --> 01:08:58.800 military, especially after they really ran with it and were studying it and giving 948 01:08:58.840 --> 01:09:03.079 it the scientists, and this guy sticking to a story and lying to the 949 01:09:03.119 --> 01:09:09.159 government and the military. I mean, you've got to know it's brave end 950 01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:12.560 or dumb or both to do that. And what reason would you have to 951 01:09:12.640 --> 01:09:15.720 do it, right, unless you just want to feel good that you fooled 952 01:09:15.720 --> 01:09:18.520 people, which is I guess why people do hoax is that You're right. 953 01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:23.079 I mean, he did have a and he was certainly seemed believable at the 954 01:09:23.119 --> 01:09:26.680 time to the people that interviewed him, right. Uh, you know, 955 01:09:27.399 --> 01:09:30.680 so it's it's really as it was really a shock. I mean, I 956 01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:34.079 was just absolutely stunned when I heard that news. And I'm very as I 957 01:09:34.119 --> 01:09:39.600 say, I'm just very interested to see what else the investigators can learn about 958 01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:44.079 the whole situation. Yea, And I just think there's a lot more to 959 01:09:44.279 --> 01:09:46.760 it's going to come. This is just the beginning in terms of this situation. 960 01:09:47.880 --> 01:09:53.680 And I really you know, I've always relied on photographs that have been 961 01:09:53.720 --> 01:09:58.479 scientifically analyzed by top level photo analysts. You know, as a journalist, 962 01:09:58.560 --> 01:10:01.560 I always think, well, that's that's pretty good solid, you know, 963 01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:08.319 backing for the photograph being authentic when you have top level scientists studying it in 964 01:10:08.399 --> 01:10:12.600 laboratories. And that's what you had here. Probably this photograph was more studied 965 01:10:12.640 --> 01:10:15.960 than well, the Trent photograph has been studied a lot, but you know, 966 01:10:15.239 --> 01:10:19.479 it was analyzed by so many different people and so much was learned about 967 01:10:19.479 --> 01:10:25.880 it that they said was highly unusual. That it's just hard to imagine that 968 01:10:26.039 --> 01:10:30.159 styrofoam could create that kind of effect. And that's why I really want to 969 01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:35.720 learn more about how that's possible, because it calls into question all photographs and 970 01:10:36.239 --> 01:10:39.880 we all need to learn. You know, what is it that we have 971 01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:45.199 to do to improve our methods of analysis of photographs if this thing turns out 972 01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:46.479 to be a hoax, you know, what do we need to do to 973 01:10:46.520 --> 01:10:50.800 be able to develop techniques that where we can do a better job. And 974 01:10:50.840 --> 01:10:57.520 it's worse now than then because of the technology and being able to use photoshop 975 01:10:57.560 --> 01:11:02.760 and things to fake pictures that really picture alone, unfortunately, is just another 976 01:11:02.880 --> 01:11:08.359 piece of a puzzle, whereas such as in this case, I mean, 977 01:11:08.399 --> 01:11:12.680 the picture is great, it's one of the best UFO pictures out there was 978 01:11:13.159 --> 01:11:15.279 and it kind of a cherry on top, but this is a case that 979 01:11:15.520 --> 01:11:21.439 stands up without the picture. You don't need the picture for this to be 980 01:11:21.479 --> 01:11:30.720 an extraordinary case, with hundreds of witnesses and sightings investigated by the Air Force 981 01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:35.840 police having sightings, so luckily it's a great case without the picture. Absolutely, 982 01:11:35.880 --> 01:11:39.439 And when I talked to General de Brower about this recently, I mean 983 01:11:39.439 --> 01:11:43.399 that was the point he kept making repeatedly and that I want everyone to really 984 01:11:43.720 --> 01:11:47.000 be aware of. Is just the point you made, Alejandro, that the 985 01:11:47.439 --> 01:11:55.119 pity ression of photograph was one person's sighting and there were hundreds and hundreds and 986 01:11:55.199 --> 01:11:59.039 hundreds of them that have been well documented, and this in no way has 987 01:11:59.159 --> 01:12:02.399 any impact should have any impact on all the other case evidence that we have 988 01:12:02.520 --> 01:12:06.439 for the Belgian Wave. It's just one event, and you know, as 989 01:12:06.479 --> 01:12:11.000 you say, it remains just as strong a case as it always was. 990 01:12:11.079 --> 01:12:15.039 It's just very unfortunate that we don't have this photographic evidence, but everything else 991 01:12:15.039 --> 01:12:20.800 still stands and it remains one of the most remarkable UFO cases ever, regardless 992 01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:25.239 of the status of the photographs. So I think, you know the debunkers 993 01:12:25.279 --> 01:12:30.000 a are it's certainly in Belgium they're doing this. They're using that the hoax 994 01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:33.119 photograph as a way of trying to just destroy the whole case, which is 995 01:12:33.239 --> 01:12:36.760 which is crazy, but that's what they do, and it's very important that 996 01:12:36.800 --> 01:12:40.760 people be aware that, you know, I don't think, I don't know. 997 01:12:40.760 --> 01:12:44.279 I haven't heard anybody doing that in America, but I know there they've 998 01:12:44.319 --> 01:12:47.680 told me that the Belgian debunkers or wherever the people are in Europe that have 999 01:12:47.720 --> 01:12:51.399 been on this case for years trying to debunk it or really having a field 1000 01:12:51.439 --> 01:12:57.640 day right now, trying to dismiss the whole case based on this one photograph, 1001 01:12:57.720 --> 01:13:00.760 and that's absolutely unfair to do that. Yeah, you know, you're 1002 01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:05.199 right. The Belgium way was absolutely extraordinary, even without the photograph. Yep. 1003 01:13:05.640 --> 01:13:12.079 And you could go to that Leslie Knees Facebook and it's under discussions. 1004 01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:17.039 The Petit rushan photo from Belgium is what the title is under discussion and you'll 1005 01:13:17.079 --> 01:13:20.840 be able to see that there everything you've written about it, and the whole 1006 01:13:20.840 --> 01:13:25.680 discussion going on about the picture. Yeah, it'd be great to have people, 1007 01:13:26.520 --> 01:13:29.319 you know, come on and give their point of view. And there's 1008 01:13:29.479 --> 01:13:31.880 one person that wrote some very interesting questions that he thought he or she thought 1009 01:13:31.960 --> 01:13:34.640 needed to be followed up on, and you know, I can send some 1010 01:13:34.680 --> 01:13:40.399 of those over to Belgians to the investigators there. So it's been a useful 1011 01:13:40.399 --> 01:13:44.720 discussion. Yeah, all right, and then I guess because we've got about 1012 01:13:44.880 --> 01:13:48.159 ten minutes or so, I definitely wanted to talk about rendal Sham. One 1013 01:13:48.159 --> 01:13:51.119 of the great things on a television show. One of the parts that I 1014 01:13:51.159 --> 01:13:58.239 have liked on Rendalsham was Colonel Halt, and I had never personally heard him 1015 01:13:58.319 --> 01:14:01.359 say this before, but when he said he got on scene out in the 1016 01:14:01.399 --> 01:14:06.640 forest to look at the UFO, how there were all these guys rocking around 1017 01:14:06.680 --> 01:14:11.439 and excited looking for the UFOs and stuff, and how he kind of freaked 1018 01:14:11.439 --> 01:14:15.399 out and thought that this is going to be a PR nightmare, PR disaster 1019 01:14:15.960 --> 01:14:19.119 if we don't get this under control, and how he started kicking people out 1020 01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:24.039 right, I mean, and that was his job. I think as you 1021 01:14:24.079 --> 01:14:28.560 know, deputy base commander to sort of keep control of what was going on. 1022 01:14:28.680 --> 01:14:30.359 But yeah, I guess there's been a lot of kind of rumors and 1023 01:14:30.399 --> 01:14:35.279 discussions about because there had been the sighting two nights ago that Pennison was involved 1024 01:14:35.279 --> 01:14:38.960 in, and I think people were around the base, were out there looking 1025 01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:43.680 for things and you know, and he was actually told to go out himself 1026 01:14:43.720 --> 01:14:46.439 and check out the situation. So when he went out there, he couldn't 1027 01:14:46.439 --> 01:14:51.199 believe all the people that were already there. That was an interesting interesting and 1028 01:14:51.199 --> 01:14:54.880 it just it points to the fact that there was a lot of interest and 1029 01:14:54.920 --> 01:14:57.880 a lot of people that were witnesses as well, because a lot of people 1030 01:14:57.880 --> 01:15:00.640 were out there milling around. Yeah, and the people that even shouldn't have 1031 01:15:00.640 --> 01:15:04.439 been out there. Yeah, he's such a serious guy too. Now having 1032 01:15:04.520 --> 01:15:08.920 met him, I can just picture, you know, I wouldn't have wanted 1033 01:15:08.880 --> 01:15:11.560 to been one of those guys, you know yet getting yelled at that. 1034 01:15:11.680 --> 01:15:15.600 I could see how he would be gotten upset and what the hell do you 1035 01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:18.760 guys saying? Well, And I think some of the the his enlisted his 1036 01:15:18.880 --> 01:15:23.560 men that were, you know what that had to deal with him at the 1037 01:15:23.560 --> 01:15:26.760 time, were not thrilled with the way they were treated. But yeah, 1038 01:15:26.800 --> 01:15:30.800 he's a he's a real military guy, and he comes across he's really a 1039 01:15:30.800 --> 01:15:32.279 great guy. I mean, I know him very well and he's a totally 1040 01:15:32.800 --> 01:15:36.840 wonderful human being, and I trust him. Yeah, you know, I 1041 01:15:36.880 --> 01:15:42.159 think he's very careful about what he's reported, and he did file the memo, 1042 01:15:42.279 --> 01:15:45.560 and he's very you know, his mind is like an encyclopedic. You've 1043 01:15:45.560 --> 01:15:48.359 probably interviewed him before, Alejnso on your show. I don't know if you 1044 01:15:49.199 --> 01:15:51.960 notice how sort of encyclopedic his mind is. I mean, you can ask 1045 01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:57.640 him about one detail and it's all there in his brain, every little tiny 1046 01:15:57.680 --> 01:16:01.960 detail of this event, every name, every place. He's just extremely well 1047 01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:08.399 informed, and he's received so much information over the years from additional witnesses people 1048 01:16:08.399 --> 01:16:14.119 that have contacted him that you know, this recent report about Conrad, I 1049 01:16:14.119 --> 01:16:15.760 guess he was the deputy base commander at the time. You know, there's 1050 01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:19.720 just some things that he suddenly has come forward and said that there really wasn't 1051 01:16:19.840 --> 01:16:25.640 much going on that night, and it's just it really makes you wonder because 1052 01:16:25.640 --> 01:16:30.279 it's in such contradiction to what Holt and others have reported that, Yeah, 1053 01:16:30.319 --> 01:16:34.199 kind of makes you wonder what's going on there. Like you said, Holt 1054 01:16:34.399 --> 01:16:39.560 is a straightforward guy. He's a street shooter. He means business. He 1055 01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:43.039 doesn't mess around. He'll tell you. You know, this is what I 1056 01:16:43.239 --> 01:16:45.640 believe out of you know what people have said have happened to Rendal Schim and 1057 01:16:45.680 --> 01:16:50.479 this is what I don't. Here's what did happen, and I know happened. 1058 01:16:50.640 --> 01:16:55.119 He's very straightforward. And you can tell he's a skeptic himself. I 1059 01:16:55.119 --> 01:16:58.359 mean, if he was skeptical when he went out to the force, he 1060 01:16:58.399 --> 01:17:02.600 didn't believe the sightings the night before. So when Conrad came out with this 1061 01:17:02.720 --> 01:17:08.359 story saying, oh, I'm disappointed in Halt for talking about this and even 1062 01:17:08.399 --> 01:17:14.680 almost suggesting that he had made the whole thing up. And in his interview, 1063 01:17:14.880 --> 01:17:19.920 Conrad did not take credit for the memo, which he, according to 1064 01:17:20.000 --> 01:17:25.920 Halt, he ordered Halt to write right, and he was totally aware of 1065 01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:30.800 it because he knew that something had happened. Right, And now he's saying, 1066 01:17:30.880 --> 01:17:32.520 oh, I went out, I didn't see anything. There was nothing 1067 01:17:32.560 --> 01:17:35.159 to it. He's even saying, oh, maybe it was something that was 1068 01:17:35.199 --> 01:17:40.760 hoaxed by guys at the base. Yeah, you know, it's just like 1069 01:17:41.000 --> 01:17:45.479 and it is. It's very kind of disrespectful of Colonel Halt. I agree 1070 01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:47.039 with you, and then he goes into you know, maybe it was a 1071 01:17:47.159 --> 01:17:55.119 lighthouse, the same old lighthouse argument. So it's you know, I haven't 1072 01:17:55.119 --> 01:17:58.640 spoken to him myself, so I don't know what's going on. But yeah, 1073 01:17:58.720 --> 01:18:01.880 I guess I don't know why he's suddenly came out now either, but 1074 01:18:02.359 --> 01:18:05.720 he did. And I know that John Burrows has been trying to get him 1075 01:18:05.720 --> 01:18:10.159 to come forward for a long time, and maybe he just sort of got 1076 01:18:10.199 --> 01:18:13.640 sick of everybody being on his case and wanting him to say say something. 1077 01:18:13.680 --> 01:18:16.880 But it wasn't uh or somebody suggested, which could be true, is that 1078 01:18:17.199 --> 01:18:20.199 they knew about the show coming up, your show coming up on the History 1079 01:18:20.239 --> 01:18:25.880 Channel, and so some of the skeptics tried to get a hold of him 1080 01:18:25.880 --> 01:18:29.680 in order to kind of just get some of that energy, you know, 1081 01:18:30.199 --> 01:18:35.279 the media energy from the show, although it really didn't get a lot of 1082 01:18:35.319 --> 01:18:39.479 attention. I guess it really didn't. It looks like it. The date 1083 01:18:39.520 --> 01:18:42.840 of the article that I'm looking at now in the British press was August sixth, 1084 01:18:42.880 --> 01:18:45.159 so it was about two weeks before the History Channel thing air, but 1085 01:18:45.520 --> 01:18:47.920 you know, it probably got a lot more play in England than it did 1086 01:18:47.960 --> 01:18:53.880 here. Yeah, so that was around the same time, I guess as 1087 01:18:53.920 --> 01:18:57.720 the you know, it was only a few weeks maybe a month before the 1088 01:18:57.760 --> 01:19:00.640 History Channel show air that the Belt and thing came out, and we certainly 1089 01:19:01.079 --> 01:19:04.119 at that point there was absolutely no way we could make any changes to what 1090 01:19:04.159 --> 01:19:08.960 we've done on that. So yeah, I mean, both of these things 1091 01:19:09.000 --> 01:19:11.279 happened, you know, within a few weeks of the show. But you 1092 01:19:11.279 --> 01:19:14.640 know, I don't suspect that there's some conspiracy to undermine the show, but 1093 01:19:15.439 --> 01:19:18.279 it's just kind of interesting and discouraging that that that happens, that both these 1094 01:19:18.319 --> 01:19:23.560 things happened. Yeah, not really conspiracy, but definitely skeptics. Whenever something 1095 01:19:23.560 --> 01:19:27.920 does happen, like Oberg commenting on your book, they take advantage of the 1096 01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:32.560 media whatever's going on, because weller journalists, so whatever's hot, they definitely 1097 01:19:32.600 --> 01:19:36.319 try to find a new and interesting angle to write about in a way of 1098 01:19:36.399 --> 01:19:42.600 undermining it, you know. Yeah, and luckily what got more press, 1099 01:19:43.439 --> 01:19:48.760 I think it seems, is the UK files more coming out about the same 1100 01:19:48.880 --> 01:19:57.079 time, and you have what is so fun are these this correspondence between the 1101 01:19:57.199 --> 01:20:00.960 MOD and people like Ralph Noyes who worked for uh, the you know, 1102 01:20:01.359 --> 01:20:05.920 defense for the British and also Admiral Lord Hilton, who was in charge of 1103 01:20:05.920 --> 01:20:10.319 the Navy for a while, in charge of NATO forces for a while, 1104 01:20:11.159 --> 01:20:15.000 really going at the MOD that you guys need to pay more attention to randalship, 1105 01:20:15.800 --> 01:20:19.359 right, I love. I think Admiral Lord Hill Norton is so entertaining 1106 01:20:19.399 --> 01:20:24.640 and he just never lets up, never lets up, and you know, 1107 01:20:26.359 --> 01:20:29.439 and he made very very good points. You know, he has those two 1108 01:20:29.479 --> 01:20:32.800 points that he repeated over and over again that about Rendalstom, which you know, 1109 01:20:32.840 --> 01:20:38.479 which make it impossible to assume it doesn't have any for the government to 1110 01:20:38.560 --> 01:20:42.520 say has no defense significance. You know, he makes the point that either 1111 01:20:43.399 --> 01:20:49.039 either these people responsible for nuclear weapons were hallucinating that night or there was an 1112 01:20:49.039 --> 01:20:55.000 intrusion into the airspace of written by an unidentified craft. And either way it's 1113 01:20:55.000 --> 01:20:59.119 as a matter of defense interest, right, you know, if these if 1114 01:20:59.159 --> 01:21:02.680 these guys are are hallucinating or lying, that's a major concern because they're responsible 1115 01:21:02.680 --> 01:21:06.359 for nuclear weapons. I don't know if he was ever supposed to even acknowledge 1116 01:21:06.359 --> 01:21:10.520 that nuclear weapons were there. I mean, that's really not something you do 1117 01:21:11.479 --> 01:21:14.479 that he did. Interesting he did. Yeah, he went there and he 1118 01:21:15.079 --> 01:21:16.479 you know, they said, oh, we're not going to comment on nuclear 1119 01:21:16.520 --> 01:21:20.880 weapons. But right because they the Americans weren't supposed to have nuclear weapons. 1120 01:21:21.760 --> 01:21:28.319 We I guess it's not completely confirmed, but there's enough people who were at 1121 01:21:28.359 --> 01:21:31.479 the base he said they did have him that it's kind of unofficially confirmed there 1122 01:21:31.520 --> 01:21:36.279 were nuclear arms there. And of course Lord hill Norton believed that because he 1123 01:21:36.720 --> 01:21:42.000 questioned them about it. So which, like you said, if they knew 1124 01:21:42.000 --> 01:21:46.840 there were nuclear weapons there, that's a pretty dang big deal. It absolutely 1125 01:21:46.920 --> 01:21:50.399 is. And he was certainly a voice of sanity, you know, enough 1126 01:21:50.439 --> 01:21:55.920 that it really seemed to make the Ministry Defense change his position. But thanks 1127 01:21:55.960 --> 01:22:00.000 thankfully, Nick Pope reopened the investigation when he was in charge in nineteen nine 1128 01:22:00.119 --> 01:22:02.920 before and that was a major contribution to the whole thing because he was able 1129 01:22:02.920 --> 01:22:09.359 to bring out some really important points and you know, I'm just very glad 1130 01:22:09.399 --> 01:22:12.840 he did what he did. And also, you know, one of the 1131 01:22:12.840 --> 01:22:15.760 more important points being the fact that there really was high level there were high 1132 01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:20.640 levels of radiation there about seven times the normal amount. I forget. I 1133 01:22:20.880 --> 01:22:26.119 think maybe one of the points that Conrad made, didn't he state that there 1134 01:22:26.199 --> 01:22:29.840 wasn't any real change in radiation. Yeah, he did say something like that. 1135 01:22:30.239 --> 01:22:33.000 Yeah, it's an exact case. It's in you know, stark contrast 1136 01:22:33.039 --> 01:22:39.319 to what the MD documents show. So I remember noting that when I just 1137 01:22:39.319 --> 01:22:41.600 read the article about him. So, you know, I mean, Nick 1138 01:22:41.640 --> 01:22:45.920 has really really brought forward some very important information. But you know, he 1139 01:22:45.960 --> 01:22:50.560 also makes the point that the investigation was not very well handled at the time, 1140 01:22:50.680 --> 01:22:55.399 So we kind of lost an opportunity for doing a really good investigation at 1141 01:22:55.399 --> 01:23:00.399 the time because of problems that were happening there over jurisdiction and so the handling 1142 01:23:00.439 --> 01:23:06.039 of the crash site and all kinds of problems that occurred. So but anyway, 1143 01:23:06.399 --> 01:23:10.680 Yeah, I think the letters by these two gentlemen are really interesting and 1144 01:23:11.399 --> 01:23:15.359 fun to read. Yeah, and on Noise and Norton, unfortunately I passed 1145 01:23:15.359 --> 01:23:18.800 away there. They're gone now. But luckily we do have Nick Pope, 1146 01:23:19.840 --> 01:23:27.279 who really chose the same tenacity that these guys did. He is not dropping 1147 01:23:27.279 --> 01:23:31.800 the ball, he's really taking the subject and running also. Absolutely, and 1148 01:23:31.880 --> 01:23:36.319 I'm consider him a really close colleague. He's been a real mentor and advisor 1149 01:23:36.359 --> 01:23:40.159 for me for many years, and I think he's made a huge contribution. 1150 01:23:40.760 --> 01:23:44.159 And he's moving to the United States, which is another advantage we all will 1151 01:23:44.199 --> 01:23:46.439 have. Now. Yeah, that's a three year only be really a few 1152 01:23:46.439 --> 01:23:50.920 hours drive away from me. That's right. So there you go, and 1153 01:23:51.079 --> 01:23:55.479 you'll be lucky to have him nearby. Yeah, I've been lucky for him. 1154 01:23:55.520 --> 01:23:58.760 He'll be out of he'll be in California where he won't have to separate 1155 01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:03.840 these super hot summers that were barely getting away from here in Arizona. Yeah, 1156 01:24:04.119 --> 01:24:06.960 I know you it must get really really hot there in the summer. 1157 01:24:08.319 --> 01:24:11.439 Yeah, but it must be coming to an end now, right, it's 1158 01:24:11.560 --> 01:24:15.520 yeah, well it's this week. We're finally down to around one hundred degrees 1159 01:24:15.560 --> 01:24:20.079 every day. Oh my god. So that's that's a considerable improvement. Oh 1160 01:24:20.159 --> 01:24:26.159 my god, that's some sense. Yeah. Yeah, I guess in parting, 1161 01:24:26.199 --> 01:24:29.000 you know it's about over. But I did want to say, you 1162 01:24:29.039 --> 01:24:32.479 know, I know you were close with Bud Hopkins, who everybody really appreciated, 1163 01:24:32.520 --> 01:24:35.600 whether or not you agreed with everything he had to say. I mean, 1164 01:24:35.720 --> 01:24:40.800 I always had a great time listening to him or talking with him. 1165 01:24:40.840 --> 01:24:45.720 He is a wonderful person and you know, we're definitely sorry for your loss 1166 01:24:45.720 --> 01:24:48.079 there. Well, thank you. Yeah, I think he's going to be 1167 01:24:48.119 --> 01:24:54.319 greatly missed by many, many people, and you know, in both in 1168 01:24:54.359 --> 01:24:57.960 the art world and in the UFO world. And he made a huge contribution. 1169 01:24:58.079 --> 01:25:00.319 I think people will always you know, I appreciate it. And he 1170 01:25:00.399 --> 01:25:04.039 was a great guy. Yeah, As you say, whether you wanted to 1171 01:25:04.079 --> 01:25:08.800 agree with him or not, whether you agree with his methods, his conclusions 1172 01:25:08.920 --> 01:25:14.119 or not, you know, he was a pioneer and a wonderful person to 1173 01:25:14.159 --> 01:25:17.720 be around and really impacted the lives of so many people that were struggling with 1174 01:25:17.800 --> 01:25:21.880 experiences that they couldn't deal with very well on their own. So I think 1175 01:25:21.920 --> 01:25:27.199 that was his main concern, was always to be helpful to the people who 1176 01:25:27.239 --> 01:25:31.479 were dealing with the experiences. That always came first, more important to him 1177 01:25:31.520 --> 01:25:35.720 than the actual research. He saw himself first and foremost as somebody who wanted 1178 01:25:35.760 --> 01:25:41.159 to be helpful to these individual people before he saw himself as a researcher. 1179 01:25:41.159 --> 01:25:45.840 And I think that's partly that might have been you know, his research methods 1180 01:25:45.920 --> 01:25:48.960 might have suffered slightly as a result of that, but the people certainly benefited 1181 01:25:48.960 --> 01:25:54.039 from what he did for them. So yeah, I don't know if you 1182 01:25:54.079 --> 01:25:56.279 stop, but it was kind of neat that. You know. I was 1183 01:25:56.319 --> 01:26:00.800 able to catch Dan Ackroyd recently for a minute and act him a questions and 1184 01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:04.880 he brought up but Hopkins. He obviously was aware that he had passed and 1185 01:26:05.000 --> 01:26:09.199 had followed his work. That's great. Yeah, I know you did an 1186 01:26:09.239 --> 01:26:13.239 interview with him recently and I bookmarked it in my emails because I definitely want 1187 01:26:13.239 --> 01:26:15.760 to listen to that. Yeah, it's very short, just a couple of 1188 01:26:15.800 --> 01:26:18.000 minutes, but he did mention Bud, which was kind of cool. That's 1189 01:26:18.079 --> 01:26:23.960 great, Yeah, really great. All right, Well that is it. 1190 01:26:24.159 --> 01:26:27.760 We are out of time. Thank you so much for coming on the show. 1191 01:26:27.800 --> 01:26:31.800 It was a lot of fun, lots of great information, and I 1192 01:26:31.840 --> 01:26:36.840 hope you know you have a wonderful fall now that we've finally gotten into the 1193 01:26:36.880 --> 01:26:41.840 fall season. Well, thank you so much Alejandra for having me and being 1194 01:26:41.920 --> 01:26:45.560 so bringing up all these great points about you know, what's happened with the 1195 01:26:45.600 --> 01:26:48.119 book and everything. I really appreciate it, and you've been a great supporter, 1196 01:26:48.359 --> 01:26:51.319 and you know you're doing great work at Open Minds. I think you're 1197 01:26:51.359 --> 01:26:55.159 one of the leading lights that we have in the field right now. So 1198 01:26:55.720 --> 01:26:59.399 thanks for everything you do. Oh well, thank you very very much. 1199 01:26:59.439 --> 01:27:02.159 And you know what I noticed just recently too, this is kind of interesting 1200 01:27:03.039 --> 01:27:09.119 the show. This show is the nineteenth You the last time you were on 1201 01:27:09.159 --> 01:27:12.520 my show with September twentieth of twenty ten. Isn't that kind of weird? 1202 01:27:13.039 --> 01:27:16.520 And today is September nineteenth. Oh, so it's like exactly a year to 1203 01:27:16.600 --> 01:27:20.119 the minus one day. Yeah, well, we'll have to make it an 1204 01:27:20.119 --> 01:27:26.000 annual event. Yeah, exactly, we'll have to remembering. Yeah, that 1205 01:27:26.159 --> 01:27:30.399 is pretty weird. That's kind of ye. All right, it doesn't feel 1206 01:27:30.439 --> 01:27:33.920 like the whole year's past. Way years go by faster as Yeah, they 1207 01:27:34.079 --> 01:27:36.880 really fly. I know I didn't feel like that either. I was thinking 1208 01:27:38.000 --> 01:27:41.000 just a few months ago, and I was wondering, was it even before 1209 01:27:41.039 --> 01:27:45.000 the conference? And yeah, I looked that up sometime at the conference. 1210 01:27:45.000 --> 01:27:46.800 So it made it seem like we had talked more recently, you know. 1211 01:27:46.920 --> 01:27:50.479 Yeah, and a couple of conferences since, well, at least California. 1212 01:27:50.520 --> 01:27:54.600 I guess you certainly did a great job on that conference. Allehundro it was 1213 01:27:54.600 --> 01:27:58.479 one. Thank you, thank you very much. Yep. All right, 1214 01:27:58.520 --> 01:28:00.279 well, thank you for being on showing me on and I really, I 1215 01:28:00.319 --> 01:28:03.800 really always appreciate talking with you. Thanks to everybody, and I hope people 1216 01:28:03.800 --> 01:28:09.159 will visit me on Facebook and visit my website UFOs on therecord dot com. 1217 01:28:09.439 --> 01:28:11.760 Right, and also so some people know, the book is now at in 1218 01:28:11.840 --> 01:28:16.720 paperback, so it's very cheap to get on Amazon because of the paperback it's 1219 01:28:16.800 --> 01:28:21.239 easier to carry around and lighter, but still the same book. So just 1220 01:28:21.279 --> 01:28:25.039 so the people know that if they haven't had a chance to read it yet, 1221 01:28:25.920 --> 01:28:29.880 right, And I'll put those links on the site, and yes, 1222 01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:32.760 pick up a few so you can give them to your skeptics and believe her 1223 01:28:32.760 --> 01:28:40.960 friends. Okay, thanks very much, Okay, thank you. Remember that 1224 01:28:41.199 --> 01:28:45.760 is UFOs on the Record dot com is her website, and or you could 1225 01:28:45.800 --> 01:28:50.479 google her. It's pronounced Leslie Kane, so you know, even though it's 1226 01:28:50.520 --> 01:28:56.159 spelled k E A N. So if you're going to google Leslie k e 1227 01:28:56.760 --> 01:29:02.439 A and Leslie spelt in the traditional manner l E s l i E and 1228 01:29:02.520 --> 01:29:06.039 definitely pick up a copy of the book if you haven't because you're trying to 1229 01:29:06.039 --> 01:29:10.840 save your pennies and you felt the hard copy was a little too much. 1230 01:29:10.920 --> 01:29:15.680 Go pick up the paperback. It's cheap and it is great. I mean, 1231 01:29:15.720 --> 01:29:19.039 the material, as you heard on the show, is incredible and it's 1232 01:29:19.319 --> 01:29:24.439 definitely stuff that you want to know about. So when you're talking to people 1233 01:29:24.760 --> 01:29:29.520 about why you think you know there's something to this phenomena, you'll be able 1234 01:29:29.560 --> 01:29:32.479 to find it there. We are out of time, Thank you so much 1235 01:29:32.520 --> 01:29:36.359 for listening. Next week our show will be Stan Romanac, so you're gonna 1236 01:29:36.359 --> 01:29:42.239 want to be there. Be sure to check Openminds dot tv for the latest 1237 01:29:42.279 --> 01:29:45.359 in UFO news. Thank you, Adios Chos.