1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:06,839 Hello world. You're listening to Eleanor Wagner's Strange and Scary world here on the 2 00:00:06,879 --> 00:00:12,720 Paranormal UK Radio Network, where we'll always creeping it real. I'm your host, 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:19,519 Eleanor Wagner. Welcome all to my paranormal Closet where the stories in magic 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,679 take place. In nineteen sixty one, today's guests Aunt and Uncle Betty and 5 00:00:24,719 --> 00:00:29,960 Barney Hill, had a close encounter and UFO abduction in New Hampshire's White Mountains. 6 00:00:30,559 --> 00:00:33,719 As a family member, she was able to get first hand information on 7 00:00:33,759 --> 00:00:37,920 the account on the exact day they arrived home and the subsequent days following the 8 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,880 event. Since then, she has devoted years of research to their abduction case, 9 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,640 and we will be discussing all of this and then some on today's show. 10 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,200 Join me and welcoming. Kathleen Martin, thank you for coming today. 11 00:00:51,679 --> 00:00:55,920 Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be with you today. I 12 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,439 personally read captured on your Aunt and Uncle's account, was extreme intrigued by what 13 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:06,120 happened. My research ultimately led to you and asking for you to come on 14 00:01:06,159 --> 00:01:10,239 to my show to discuss your findings. As I understand it, it's because 15 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,879 of betting Barney Hill's ufl Abduction that you became an author, investigator, and 16 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,959 researcher. Correct, that is correct. How did you ran an uncle Field 17 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:25,120 about your involvement into the investigation process of their encounter. Well, my uncle 18 00:01:25,159 --> 00:01:30,159 died in nineteen sixty nine when I was in college, so I was not 19 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,920 doing a formal investigation of their case at that time, although I was very 20 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:42,760 much involved at a personal and family level, and they felt fine. We 21 00:01:42,799 --> 00:01:49,840 had a very close relationship. So after Barney passed on, I had a 22 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,920 typical career. I studied social work. I had my degree in that, 23 00:01:55,519 --> 00:02:00,000 and then I ended up going into education as a teacher and then as an 24 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:09,879 education services coordinator, and then I became I developed a disabling illness back in 25 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:17,960 the late nineteen eighties and decided what I could do for intellectual stimulation. I 26 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:23,400 couldn't just sit at home. I mean, in my previous career, I 27 00:02:23,479 --> 00:02:30,960 had been writing, I had been inventing, doing so many productive things that 28 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:36,719 I wasn't going to let this illness get me down. So I decided that 29 00:02:36,879 --> 00:02:43,120 I would begin a formal investigation of what happened to my aunt and uncle. 30 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:50,240 I wanted to separate fact from fiction, and I also wanted to write my 31 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:58,719 aunt's biography, so she gave me permission to do this. She had an 32 00:02:58,759 --> 00:03:06,479 extensive arc val collection and she gave me, and actually i'm the trustee of 33 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:13,520 her archival collection, including the hypnosis tapes with doctor Benjamin Simon. Now I 34 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:20,719 did my own investigation at physical archives as well, so it involved a great 35 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:31,400 deal of research and investigation, hours and hours of investigation going back to the 36 00:03:31,439 --> 00:03:37,159 close encounter rout with her, going to the abduction site, over it and 37 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:43,599 over again, hearing and tape recording the messages that she gave to me. 38 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:51,439 Eventually I would go up there without her. I wanted to measure distances. 39 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:57,879 I even made a trip with my husband of the entire route that Betty and 40 00:03:57,919 --> 00:04:04,439 Barney took in nineteen sixty one, looking for any holes in the case, 41 00:04:04,719 --> 00:04:15,639 any conventional explanation for what happened to them, and measured distance, measured times, 42 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:24,920 sort of reconstructed the route that they went on, following those back roads 43 00:04:25,319 --> 00:04:29,120 that they were traveling on. We have new major highways now, we didn't 44 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,680 have all those highways back then, so we traveled on the old routes. 45 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:38,560 And by that time I had listened to those hypnosis tapes and their descriptions so 46 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:46,439 many times that I was seeing what they observed back in nineteen sixty one. 47 00:04:46,959 --> 00:04:51,279 I have to tell you that at the end of our trip, my husband 48 00:04:51,319 --> 00:04:58,079 and I were much older than Betty and Barney were at the time of their 49 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:06,360 UFO encounter. It has been said by skeptics that they had driven so long 50 00:05:06,439 --> 00:05:11,439 they must have been hallucinating. And I can tell you that my husband and 51 00:05:11,519 --> 00:05:17,000 I were not hallucinating, nor did we have a UFO encounter on our route. 52 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:23,199 And so you know, I think all in at all, I probably 53 00:05:23,399 --> 00:05:31,519 have more information and have done more research and investigation than anyone else. What 54 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:40,480 happened to them that night, Well, they were returning home overnight, anticipating 55 00:05:40,519 --> 00:05:46,240 an arrival at two o'clock in the morning. They had traveled from Montreal to 56 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:56,040 Colebrook, New Hampshire, arriving at about nine o'clock or so eight. They're 57 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:03,399 left at ten five. They checked their against the clock in the restaurant and 58 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:11,680 headed south. They were returning home to their house on the seacoast in Portsmouth. 59 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,839 The reason they made this decision is that a hurricane was whirling up the 60 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:23,439 coast and they wanted to arrive home before it hit. Also, they made 61 00:06:23,439 --> 00:06:28,519 the decision that they would stop overnight if they grew tired. But they were 62 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,560 well rested from the night before. They were having a wonderful vacation and they 63 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:40,279 were just traveling south on Route three through upstate New Hampshire, when just south 64 00:06:40,319 --> 00:06:45,319 of Lancaster, my aunt spotted a new light in the sky. And what 65 00:06:45,439 --> 00:06:49,240 drew her attention to it is that it was traveling upward in sort of an 66 00:06:49,399 --> 00:06:56,879 arc, and she had never seen anything like that, and it was sort 67 00:06:56,879 --> 00:07:00,800 of the reverse of a falling star. She wondered what it could possibly be. 68 00:07:00,959 --> 00:07:04,160 She thought of a satellite. It wasn't a satellite. She thought of 69 00:07:04,199 --> 00:07:09,680 a falling star. It wasn't a falling star. And she watched it as 70 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:15,399 it grew larger and larger in the sky. Finally, south of Twin Mountain, 71 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:23,160 which was maybe a half hour forty five minute drive, she and Barney 72 00:07:23,199 --> 00:07:28,079 stopped because this object was coming in closer and closer. They got out of 73 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:33,879 the car. They had binoculars because they had been to Niagara Falls and they 74 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:39,399 needed binoculars if they wanted to see it close up of the falls, and 75 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:44,560 so they got out of the car with the binoculars. They had their little 76 00:07:44,639 --> 00:07:48,079 dog, Delsy, who was a ducksmund with them. Barney walked the dog. 77 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:57,680 Betty looked at this object, which was now unidentified. But it was 78 00:07:57,759 --> 00:08:03,560 strange because it crossed the face of the moon flashing multi colored lights. It 79 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:09,319 was silent, and it wasn't that far away. Betty then gave the binoculars 80 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:16,560 to Barney and he looked at it and he was dismissive. He was a 81 00:08:16,639 --> 00:08:22,480 confirmed skeptic. He thought that there had to be some kind of a prosaic 82 00:08:22,519 --> 00:08:28,720 explanation for this. They had itself again and entered Franconia Notch at the north 83 00:08:30,319 --> 00:08:35,879 entrance, and there was the craft that had been traveling beside them that now 84 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:41,879 surged ahead over Cannon Mountain. And so they stopped again on the other side 85 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:48,159 of Cannon Mountain, where the Old Man of the Mountain stood. The profile 86 00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:52,480 was forty eight feet from forehead to chin. I said, was because it 87 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,919 fell off the mountain in two thousand and three, and that was a tragic 88 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:01,399 event because it was New Hampshire States symbol. Oh, oh my goodness, 89 00:09:01,799 --> 00:09:07,919 yes, but it was. The profile was set twelve hundred feet above the 90 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:15,639 ground, and of course I said forty eight feet in length. And this 91 00:09:15,919 --> 00:09:22,440 craft was hovering beside the old Man's profile, and Betty could determine at that 92 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,759 time that it was at least one and a half times the length of the 93 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:33,080 profile. It appeared to be rotating. It would stand still, it would 94 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:39,240 flip upward, it would flip horizontally, and it would move down. Then 95 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:48,360 it started to bounce back and forth in the sky. So this was extraordinarily 96 00:09:48,799 --> 00:09:56,639 interesting to them. I so, oh my goodness. So as time went 97 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,759 on, they decided to pull over again to get another look at this thing. 98 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,519 But it was in a parking area where there were tall trees all around. 99 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,759 They could not see it. So they went immediately back onto the highway 100 00:10:09,879 --> 00:10:16,840 this was Route three still in those days, and into the tourist section of 101 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:22,000 Lincoln, New Hampshire. They went by what is now the Indian Head Resort. 102 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:28,679 There were cabins in that time frame. In fact, a historical marker 103 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:35,279 for Betty and Barney sits in front of the Indian Head Resort. The State 104 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:41,559 of New Hampshire erected this to commemorate this love that I love that the state 105 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:46,720 erected this historical marker for them, because to me, that shows that they 106 00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:52,039 had that public. They're giving that public their support. Yes, what happened. 107 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,480 They're admitting to the fact that it did happen. You know, well, 108 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:05,639 they're admitting that at least there is a tremendous amount of documentation indicating that 109 00:11:05,799 --> 00:11:13,519 it did happen. Had I was one of the two people behind this, 110 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:18,360 but since I was the trustee of their estate, I was the person who 111 00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:28,200 had to submit all of the evidence, the documentation, and also to write 112 00:11:28,879 --> 00:11:37,240 what I wanted to have appear on the historical marker. So that was erected 113 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:43,399 in two thousand and eleven. Now getting back to what happened to Betty and 114 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,799 Barney. They drove past the Indian Head Resort. They were approximately a mile 115 00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:56,360 mile and a half south of there when suddenly this craft surged ahead again. 116 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:01,639 It was coming lower and lower, and it stopped beside the highway about two 117 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:09,559 hundred feet overhead. Barney had to break the car in the middle of the 118 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:16,799 road so that he would not be under this craft. I've investigated cases where 119 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:26,960 people attempted to drive under this craft and they were taken up into it immediately. 120 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:31,480 They experienced a couple of hours of missing time and ended up on a 121 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,080 different road, on a different part of the highway. This is part of 122 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,679 my investigations of other people in that area who had these kinds of events. 123 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:48,679 So Betty and Barney. Barney stopped the car and opened the door, stepped 124 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:54,080 out of the car with the binoculars, looked up at this object that was 125 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,279 just hanging there in the sky. He said, it looked like a giant 126 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:03,320 pancake. And there was a apparently a row of windows on the forward edge. 127 00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:11,000 And he stepped away from the car to get a better look. And 128 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:16,919 when he did, the object shifted and moved in an arc like manner over 129 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:24,759 the highway and stopped above a field. There was a farmer stand in the 130 00:13:24,799 --> 00:13:28,799 field. There was a few apple trees, and it descended to within one 131 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:33,519 hundred feet of Barney. He was shaking his head. He was pulling the 132 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,919 binoculars down. He walked toward it, you know, he left the area 133 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,440 the location of the car and walked toward it. And when he looked up 134 00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:48,600 through binoculars, he saw entities figures looking down at him. They were all 135 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:56,679 dressed in black uniforms. He wrote to Nycap in the second report he made. 136 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:03,919 The first was to the P's Air Force base, and there was something 137 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:11,720 about them that made him believe they were non human. And suddenly all but 138 00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:20,000 one moved in unison to what appeared to be the backside of a corridor and 139 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,639 he could see them. Their arms went up into the air. He could 140 00:14:24,679 --> 00:14:28,639 see them from the tops of their arms to their about their knees at this 141 00:14:28,759 --> 00:14:37,960 point, and when they did this, little red lights started to slide out 142 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:46,399 on fin like structures. This has happened in the past in other cases as 143 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:56,000 well. And then the one remaining at the window was staring down at Barney 144 00:14:56,159 --> 00:15:03,879 and frightened him greatly. He thought that this entity had a plan for him. 145 00:15:03,679 --> 00:15:09,879 Somehow he knew this, and that plan was to capture him. Something 146 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:16,200 started to slide down out of the bottom of the craft. Barney didn't know 147 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:20,840 what it was. I know what it is, and I even have video 148 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:30,320 of this kind of beam that came down almost like a laser beam, but 149 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:39,679 not a laser beam. It seemed to be the beam that hit abductees and 150 00:15:39,799 --> 00:15:46,919 carried them to craft. So Barney saw this and his intuition was right. 151 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:52,840 He pulled the binoculars away from his eyes so forcefully that he broke the leather 152 00:15:52,960 --> 00:16:00,080 strap and ran screaming to Betty back to the Color that they had to get 153 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,799 out of there or they were going to be captured. Oh wow. He 154 00:16:04,879 --> 00:16:11,120 had left the car running, the interior light was on. He threw the 155 00:16:11,159 --> 00:16:15,200 binoculars on the seat, slammed the car door, put it in to drive, 156 00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:22,960 and went tearing down the highway as he entered the UFO, I mean 157 00:16:23,039 --> 00:16:30,440 as he entered his vehicle. Sorry, the craft was moving in his direction, 158 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:37,240 and within a few blocks he and Betty heard a series of code like 159 00:16:37,399 --> 00:16:41,399 buzzing sounds that were striking the trunk of their vehicle. In fact, the 160 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:49,000 following day they found shiny, highly polished spots there in that area that caused 161 00:16:49,039 --> 00:16:56,399 a compass needle to rotate rapidly, meaning that there was a magnetic field in 162 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,159 that area. And this was on the trunk of the car, not upfront 163 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:11,400 where you would have this happened. So they did feel these buzzing sounds in 164 00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:19,400 their bodies in their vehicle. Betty in fact felt of the metal to see 165 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:25,000 if she would receive an electric shock. It was kind of a strong electrical 166 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:34,920 sensation and it's in the early reports, so it's documented evidence. Also, 167 00:17:36,759 --> 00:17:49,920 they started to lose their awareness of what was occurring simultaneously, and the next 168 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:55,240 thing they knew, they found themselves about thirty five miles down the highway. 169 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:03,480 They had memories of finding themselves on another road, not the highway they were 170 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,319 traveling on. It was a dirt road with tall trees all around. They 171 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:14,880 had memories of a roadblock. They had memories of observing a fiery orb, 172 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:23,240 but they didn't know where that occurred, and it was so perplexing. They 173 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:29,440 continued driving home when they heard the second series of buzzing sounds. When their 174 00:18:29,519 --> 00:18:36,720 full memory was restored, except for what happened on the craft when they were 175 00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:44,559 abducted, they continued to speak with one another to drive home. They were 176 00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:51,359 looking for a police officer to report this too. They yearned for human contact. 177 00:18:51,799 --> 00:18:55,799 They were looking for a coffee shop that might be open, but nothing 178 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:00,640 was open, and when they returned home, it wasn't to a three in 179 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:08,319 the morning, as they had anticipated by Betty's watch that she set and wound. 180 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:14,519 When she went into her home and checked the clock, it was five 181 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:22,599 sixteen am. There were several hours they lost several hours, and there was 182 00:19:22,759 --> 00:19:29,519 physical evidence that something had happened to them. Betty's dress was torn in several 183 00:19:29,559 --> 00:19:33,759 locations at the top of the zipper. In the thick zipper fabric, her 184 00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:37,039 hem was torn down on one side, and the lining of her dress was 185 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:45,440 torn from waste to hemline. Barney's best dress shoes were so deeply scraped that 186 00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:52,240 he had to relegate them to garden work and had to purchase new shoes. 187 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:57,559 As I said, their watches had stopped running and never ran again, and 188 00:19:57,599 --> 00:20:03,720 there were those perplexed spots on the trunk of the vehicle they felt. Clammy 189 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:11,480 is the word that Betty used, much more so than you would if you 190 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:19,920 had taken a drive from Montreal to Portsmouth, New Hampshire. So there were 191 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:30,079 so many questions about what had occurred that the fiery scene that they recalled. 192 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,519 Do you feel like that was implanted in their minds so that they would think 193 00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:37,440 that there was some sort of accident in try and remember it as an accident 194 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:44,079 of some sort or do you think that actually happened. I think that actually 195 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:49,759 happened, because two and a half years later, when they saw doctor Benjamin 196 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:59,000 Simon, a famed neuropsychiatrist who worked with veterans returning from the war to restore 197 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:08,799 them to full the health when they had suffered from physiological symptoms that were psychogenically 198 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:14,839 induced. And Barney had this problem, he was hospitalized with bleeding ulcers. 199 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,720 He had to take an leave of absence from work. This was a life 200 00:21:18,759 --> 00:21:26,799 threatening condition due to the anxiety that he experienced over having had this experience and 201 00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:36,240 having full recall of observing these non humans and this close encounter, so they 202 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:41,079 were referred to doctor Simon. Barney was at least Betty went with him, 203 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,960 and she asked doctor Simon if he would take her on as a patient as 204 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:52,440 well. He agreed, as long as he saw them separately for hypnosis deep 205 00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:59,880 trans hypnosis, and he reinstated amnesia at the end of each session so they 206 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,799 couldn't compare notes. It wasn't until the end of all of the hypnosis sessions 207 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:11,319 that he took them in to listen to those audio tapes of what the other 208 00:22:11,519 --> 00:22:18,279 had stated, and they discovered that yes, they had been abducted. They 209 00:22:18,319 --> 00:22:23,559 had partial recall. They always had this recall from the time it happened. 210 00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:30,880 They made repeated trips up to that area of New Hampshire up to the mountains 211 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,839 to look for the spot where this occurred. So it wasn't something that was 212 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,880 revealed for the first time under hypnosis. They did have conscious recall of that 213 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:53,079 part of it. I don't know if there was any screen memory there. 214 00:22:53,720 --> 00:23:03,799 Barney under hypnosis talked about a schesher cat. But what he was talking about, 215 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:10,279 I believe is the glowing eyes that he was seeing as these entities were 216 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:18,680 coming toward him. Interesting. I've heard in other documentaries them referred to like 217 00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:26,079 owl eyes. Almost yes, you might refer to them as like owl eyes. 218 00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:32,039 It was the same kind of thing, but he didn't see an owl 219 00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:40,799 right. Well, all he and Betty consciously recalled was a roadblock. Interesting. 220 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,759 Now, why do you suppose that they abducted them and others? Besides, 221 00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:52,400 well, there's my opinion and then there's Betty's in Barney's opinion. Betty 222 00:23:52,400 --> 00:24:00,559 and Barney believe that they wanted to determine the differences between humans and themselves. 223 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:06,640 But I have to tell you that they were well set up to do abductions. 224 00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:12,440 And as a researcher and investigator, I was the founder and director of 225 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:18,440 the Mutual UFO Networks Experience or resource team. It was then the research team 226 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:27,640 for ten years, and we had case after case of individuals who had been 227 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:37,039 taken onto craft and they were always pretty similar. They were taken, they 228 00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:45,559 were put on tables and tissue samples were extracted. They were then perhaps implanted 229 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:52,200 with devices by these non human entities, and when they were going to be 230 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:57,319 taken again, they were oftentimes aware that they were going to be taken again. 231 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:06,720 I believe that these entities were able to communicate with these humans through these 232 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:15,640 listening devices. So it has happened to many other people. It's more than 233 00:25:15,759 --> 00:25:22,559 just wanting to learn the differences between them and us. That's what Betty and 234 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:30,519 Barney thought. They underwent an unconventional physical examination. Some have been told that 235 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:37,640 the entities are concerned about the presence of environmental toxins in human bodies. There 236 00:25:37,759 --> 00:25:45,799 is usually some kind of learning process education after the exam takes place, where 237 00:25:45,839 --> 00:25:53,400 the human being is given information about the ets, concern about our use of 238 00:25:53,480 --> 00:26:03,799 nuclear weapons, concern about how we are still primitive yet we have advanced technology. 239 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:11,759 They're concerned about our spiritual development, our maturity, and fear that we 240 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:21,000 might destroy our planet if we don't change our ways, and so they have 241 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:30,279 also been collectors. They've been collectors of DNA for in case we do damage 242 00:26:30,279 --> 00:26:36,079 our planet or destroy life on our planet. I would speculate that perhaps they're 243 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:41,720 seeding other planets with our DNA too. They've been seen taking vegetative matter, 244 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:49,000 taking plants way back in the nineteen fifties, and then it advanced to taking 245 00:26:49,680 --> 00:27:00,720 animals, forest animals, and then they began taking humans. This has been 246 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:08,960 a very long, complicated program. It appears to be a scientific, a 247 00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:15,960 scientific program taking. Are they taking and returning them? Are they taking and 248 00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:22,400 keeping them? For the most part, they're taking and returning them. I 249 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,960 am not aware of any of the abductees or contact ees that I have worked 250 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:36,079 with, and it has been a few thousand for me. For my team, 251 00:27:36,319 --> 00:27:41,839 it's been about twelve thousand. Wow. We're not aware of anyone who 252 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:48,160 has been taken and not returned. And once they're taken, they're taking repeatedly, 253 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,599 so you know, it's not a one time event generally. But in 254 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:03,319 the frightening media you might read about those who have been taken and never returned 255 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,039 or people who have gone missing. I've heard, Yeah, that's what I've 256 00:28:07,079 --> 00:28:12,440 heard in some people that I've interviewed that were abductees themselves said that when they 257 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,759 were there, there were people that were never returned. And so it makes 258 00:28:15,799 --> 00:28:22,359 you wonder about the missing person's number that is so large in many places that 259 00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:26,200 could there be some truth to the fact that some of these people are taken 260 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:33,960 and not returned. That is true, Now we have to ask did they 261 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:44,920 go voluntarily right? Were there actually extraterrestrials who appeared to be human who are 262 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:52,119 only joining their extraterrestrial family, or were they taken for some other purpose? 263 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:59,599 You know, there are many questions surrounding that question, and I don't have 264 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:06,240 the answer. Human alien beings too. Could they be one of beach, 265 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:14,640 you know, like part human part alien? Absolutely, could they be perhaps 266 00:29:14,759 --> 00:29:22,240 they h It's very frightening to think about it and to wrap your head around 267 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,519 the possibility, and then you think, is there just one species? Or 268 00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:30,640 o there more? Is this? I imagine that we can't be the only 269 00:29:32,359 --> 00:29:36,960 beings out there, and from these people being abducted, you understand that there 270 00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:40,240 is something else out there. But I feel like there's more than one. 271 00:29:40,359 --> 00:29:44,680 I feel like it's not just us and them. I feel like that there 272 00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:48,240 must be more. How do you feel about that. I've worked on three 273 00:29:48,279 --> 00:29:53,079 major studies on about five thousand experiencers, and two of those studies were with 274 00:29:53,200 --> 00:30:03,759 PhD academics retired, and what we discovered is that there are several species. 275 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:11,240 There are variations of those species. The grays what you think of the as 276 00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:18,880 The grays are most predominant. There are the human types that come second, 277 00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:27,599 and then there are reports of insectoids that look like mantis, large praying mantises, 278 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:38,519 only humanoid, avian bird like only humanoid, extraterrestrials, tall whites, 279 00:30:41,359 --> 00:30:47,680 various forms of reptilians. So those are the major types. Now there are 280 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,319 different varieties, so it increases the number. Some people speculate it's in the 281 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:59,160 sixties or seventies or even more. But when you take a really good look 282 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:07,400 at this, it's generally variations on the same body type. Oh my goodness. 283 00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:11,640 Well, somewhere along the line, you switched your focus to advocating for 284 00:31:11,319 --> 00:31:18,240 the respectful treatment of people who interacted willingly and unwillingly with non human entities. 285 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,400 I guess my question is when you advocate for them, who are you advocating 286 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,640 them against? And when you say willingly interacted with non human entities, What 287 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:32,000 exactly do you mean? Okay, two questions. Why did I switch? 288 00:31:33,279 --> 00:31:41,079 I was a cold investigator in the beginning. I was a nuts and bolts 289 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:49,799 investigator. When I interviewed someone who claimed that they had been abducted, I 290 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:59,599 was not sympathetic. I wasn't cruel, but I was looking for evidence. 291 00:32:00,279 --> 00:32:07,240 I was like a police detective doing an interview, not showing emotion, not 292 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:15,000 showing much compassion, looking for evidence. And then I began to realize over 293 00:32:15,079 --> 00:32:22,680 time that in a sense, it was cruel. These people were suffering, 294 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:27,640 and I was judging them based upon the physical evidence that they could present. 295 00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:36,640 Anyone could tell a story. I decided that I could no longer do this 296 00:32:36,839 --> 00:32:44,359 because I'm a compassionate person and I would never do anything that would hurt anybody. 297 00:32:45,759 --> 00:32:52,960 So I started to interview these individuals with compassion. Most of them did 298 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:59,519 not have evidence, but there were some cases that were major cases with a 299 00:32:59,559 --> 00:33:07,559 great deal of evidence that something highly unusual had occurred, including video evidence that 300 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:20,119 showed non humans coming in on beams of light to abduct three individuals, and 301 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:30,200 one of those individuals already had a confirmed investigated case of alien abduction. So 302 00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:39,119 it's that sort of thing that I do. And then the Mutual UFO Network 303 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:49,279 asked me to write protocols on how to investigate a UFO abduction. So I 304 00:33:49,359 --> 00:33:55,680 spent over a year working with Denise Stoner very closely and a team of professional 305 00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:04,160 consultants on how to do this kind of investigation, and that is what Moufon's 306 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:13,760 Field Investigators follow. I thought that we needed to have case dispositions for experiencers. 307 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:22,360 It's not did the person see a UFO? Was this something different than 308 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:28,840 a UFO? That kind of thing that doesn't address whether a person was taken 309 00:34:29,079 --> 00:34:37,000 to craft. So I felt compassion toward these individuals, and then the Mutual 310 00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:47,280 UFO Network asked me to form a team of experienced, highly knowledgeable field investigators 311 00:34:49,079 --> 00:34:55,760 who had a great deal of information about ET contact, UFO abductions, that 312 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:05,239 kind of thing, to speak non judgmentally to people who were seeking help in 313 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:15,559 resolving the trauma that they were experiencing as a result of their ET contact events. 314 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:23,719 We started out with three members and today we have about sixty sixty members. 315 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:31,800 That's crazy. Is this the reason for you writing the book about extraterrestrial 316 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:37,159 contact? And how to react and how to behave when you do get abducted? 317 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,079 Did one come before the other? Because I find it really interesting how 318 00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:45,519 you could write a book to explain what someone should do if they are abducted. 319 00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:55,280 Yes, I wrote that for this specific reason, and three of the 320 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:02,719 members of the ERT joined me to writing one chapter. One was a psychotherapist 321 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:15,639 who worked with experiencers, another is a seasoned investigator and an abductee, and 322 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:23,599 the other one has a background in psychology and is also a psychic, and 323 00:36:23,639 --> 00:36:31,960 so she wrote about being transformed by these experiences. So I wrote the majority 324 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:39,159 of the book, but I wanted to have their opinions as well, because 325 00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:45,719 they specialized in important areas. In fact, the one who was the seasoned 326 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:52,920 investigator and abductee is also a specialist in the paranormal, and we found that 327 00:36:52,000 --> 00:37:02,039 there is a paranormal overlay in the majority of these cases. Experiencers see what 328 00:37:02,079 --> 00:37:09,760 appear to be intelligent light orbs in their homes, their beds, might feel 329 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:19,199 like something unseen is walking on them, that sort of thing. So to 330 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:24,159 help people to separate out, is this simply a paranormal event or is it 331 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:34,840 et related? How can you investigate your own case in case you don't want 332 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:40,880 to report it to an agency and have it go on the record. I 333 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:51,880 have also worked with Contact Ease and interviewed many individuals who call in craft. 334 00:37:52,880 --> 00:38:00,800 Sometimes they see the non human entities on the craft, and infrequently they might 335 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:07,880 have one of these non human entities actually come in to their own environment, 336 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:15,800 maybe more than one, so it's pretty amazing. I don't have video of 337 00:38:15,039 --> 00:38:22,679 that from these individuals, but that this is the claims that they have been 338 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:30,920 making, and enough of them have made this claim that perhaps it actually has 339 00:38:31,079 --> 00:38:38,519 happened. It's more than one person who's observing this. Then I took part 340 00:38:38,559 --> 00:38:46,519 in an experiment with an individual from the UK. Originally he was a police 341 00:38:46,559 --> 00:38:52,360 officer in England. He grew up there and when he was a boy, 342 00:38:52,840 --> 00:39:00,760 he had two non humans appear to him. They frightened him terror but then 343 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:08,519 one came back as an orb and communicated with him the later date and taught 344 00:39:08,599 --> 00:39:17,079 him how to astrall travel, and so for many years he astral traveled. 345 00:39:17,639 --> 00:39:23,760 He was also taken aboard a craft when he was a paper boy a teenager, 346 00:39:25,199 --> 00:39:30,239 and then he moved to the United States with his wife, who had 347 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:39,719 worked at a college in the psychology department, and I happened to meet them 348 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:46,400 and eventually was invited to take part in an experiment. That's the way I 349 00:39:46,559 --> 00:39:51,559 thought of it, and the other investigators thought of it as an experiment to 350 00:39:51,639 --> 00:39:58,679 determine whether or not this was real or who he was actually communicating with. 351 00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:04,840 He thought it was ex for terrestrials, and so we met several times, 352 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:13,760 and during one of the interviews, my fellow researchers said that he appeared to 353 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:20,920 actually be channeling information. He was not aware that he was channeling, but 354 00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:27,679 from there, one of these interviewers, who was an ordained minister and a 355 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:40,960 psychotherapist, interviewed him and taught him how to meditate and to communicate with these 356 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:50,239 non humans, and he began communicating with them. Some of them they claimed 357 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:54,800 to be from a council of extraterrestrials who were in this quadrant of our galaxy, 358 00:40:54,880 --> 00:41:02,400 that they were a protective force and they were overseeing our planet and the 359 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:10,079 activities on our planet. That they were monitoring us, they were assisting in 360 00:41:10,159 --> 00:41:20,519 our development, They were sharing information during the sleep cycle to prominent scientists to 361 00:41:20,679 --> 00:41:30,320 help us to move along scientifically. That they had contacted leaders throughout the world 362 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:37,960 wanting to reveal themselves, and no one was interested in this process. On 363 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:45,000 and on. In fact, we met for two years and once a month 364 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:52,440 we were able to take our questions to this individual's home and take our scientific 365 00:41:52,519 --> 00:42:01,400 equipment to attempt to collect evidence. We did collect OVID on a laser thermometer. 366 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:12,880 We measured up to a ten degree increase in the environment directly around this 367 00:42:13,079 --> 00:42:21,280 experiencer as opposed to around us and the rest of the room. We, 368 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:30,519 without realizing it, initially, all felt an intense electrical kind of tingling sensation 369 00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:38,199 in our bodies. It reminds me of what my aunt described to me, 370 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:45,079 And as I went on to investigate this, I discovered that many experiencers of 371 00:42:45,159 --> 00:42:52,519 ET contact have the same sensation in their own bodies, so I found that 372 00:42:52,599 --> 00:43:00,840 extraordinarily interesting. And then they introduced themselves to us, one at a time 373 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:07,360 and in our group, and told us who they were and why they were 374 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:15,519 here. We couldn't see them. We might see a shadow on some of 375 00:43:15,519 --> 00:43:22,039 them, so we knew they were there visually, but we never had them 376 00:43:22,159 --> 00:43:28,920 materialize in front of us. Then they wanted to show us evidence. They 377 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:35,679 showed us craft, but not close up. One of them, who claimed 378 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:44,199 to be a Zeta Retilian scientist, A Gray, said that he wanted to 379 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:54,480 communicate with me, and I agreed with trepidation to connect with him. He 380 00:43:54,599 --> 00:44:02,079 came into my environment. I could feel that strong ting sensation and we did 381 00:44:02,119 --> 00:44:08,760 have telepathic communication. In the strangest place, I was a passenger in my 382 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:15,199 husband's vehicle as we were driving down the highway. Oh my, but we 383 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:22,039 had this communication and I had that very strong tingling sensation. I asked a 384 00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:28,880 few questions. It's a good thing that I found paper and a pen because 385 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:37,639 I wrote this down, because when he left, I no longer remembered it. 386 00:44:37,639 --> 00:44:40,639 It was only there on paper and pencil. I remember the tingling. 387 00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:45,639 I remembered his presence, but not what was communicated. For some reason, 388 00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:52,400 maybe it was just so shocking to me. But then he came back from 389 00:44:52,480 --> 00:45:02,039 time to time and gave me information, communicated with me. And other members 390 00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:10,119 of this group had communication to doctor Barton who was the minister, and the 391 00:45:10,159 --> 00:45:22,320 psychotherapist had communication telepathically. Denise Stoner had telepathic communication. Both saw craft when 392 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:30,119 they were told they were going to see craft. So I saw orps I 393 00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:35,880 saw. I wanted to see craft. We had arranged for that to happen, 394 00:45:36,519 --> 00:45:40,679 But what I saw was over I live on a lake. I saw 395 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:49,800 a huge, maybe forty foot circle of turbulent water that seemed to be calm 396 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,440 in the center but turbulent on the outside, and I was expecting to see 397 00:45:53,440 --> 00:46:00,719 a craft rise up out of the lake. I knew that that Zeta scientist 398 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:07,199 was with me. I could feel his presence with me. But I did 399 00:46:07,199 --> 00:46:14,159 not see a craft rise up out of the lake. But it certainly was 400 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:19,760 something that occurred. I've never seen this before. I've never seen it again. 401 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:27,280 So there it was invisible. Yes, it could have been cloaked or 402 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:35,719 invisible, or maybe it was that gray scientist who was doing That is evidence 403 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,320 for me. But you can read about all of this in my book Forbidden 404 00:46:40,679 --> 00:46:45,480 Knowledge. I was just getting ready to ask you if that's what this book 405 00:46:45,519 --> 00:46:50,920 was about, the personal journey from alien abduction to spiritual transformation. And I 406 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:58,519 can see that connection of them wanting to help us spiritually grow because we need 407 00:46:58,519 --> 00:47:04,119 more of that in the world today, because there is such division and anger 408 00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:10,920 and hatred that we really need to find that spiritual connection and find peace so 409 00:47:12,559 --> 00:47:17,599 please tell us about that book. I'd be happy to. Actually there are 410 00:47:17,639 --> 00:47:25,119 two editions of that book. The first edition is spiritually oriented. It talks 411 00:47:25,159 --> 00:47:37,000 about my growth, my history of being from my childhood through my life, 412 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:45,239 and my spiritual journey as I went from a nuts and bolts kind of person, 413 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:53,800 not believing that this could be true in a sense, to actually experiencing 414 00:47:53,840 --> 00:48:06,239 it, to investigating the spiritual side of all of this. And it also 415 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:12,199 has one hundred and twenty of the questions that we asked to this Council of 416 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:17,199 Eight and my spiritual journey beyond that. So it's a book about my personal 417 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:24,360 history. The second edition of this book that I've published only recently, but 418 00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:30,079 it's on Amazon, and Amazon has made a mistake. It lists it as 419 00:48:30,159 --> 00:48:36,880 the first edition date. It's not the first edition date. So you can 420 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,360 purchase it for Amazon, or you can purchase it directly from me on my 421 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:52,559 website at Kathleen Dashmarden dot com. So the second book is about my personal 422 00:48:52,719 --> 00:49:00,400 history, my relationship with my aunt Betty Hill, what I through with her, 423 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:07,360 the knowledge that I acquired from her, and my history of doing this. 424 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:15,760 It also goes into the beginning of my career as a ufologist and as 425 00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:22,800 an investigator, researcher and author, the work that I did, what I 426 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:31,320 discovered. I also talk about that experiment in the book. I talk about 427 00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:44,000 information that I received from the granddaughter of a Navy rear admiral and his experiment, 428 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:50,519 and so that sort of prompted me to agree to this experiment even though 429 00:49:50,599 --> 00:49:55,480 it is taboo, even though it is forbidden knowledge. So all of that 430 00:49:55,599 --> 00:50:01,239 has explained my academic history, my research history, those I've worked with, 431 00:50:01,679 --> 00:50:08,400 and what we have discovered as a team, those who I greatly admire, 432 00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:15,519 those who I modeled my career after. And also that major case that I 433 00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:25,400 talked about earlier. I referred to the physical evidence of on video on these 434 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:37,239 three highly credible individuals who were abducted and what they believed happened. I had 435 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:44,960 actually done the hypnosis on two of those individuals and just interviewed the third. 436 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:50,920 So there's a great deal of information there. I'm going to write about that 437 00:50:51,079 --> 00:51:00,920 in greater detail on my next book that I'm going to begin writing probably in 438 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:07,440 May or June. Doctor Barton and I have been working on a survey, 439 00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:14,920 and this survey is on my website. You can find the link there. 440 00:51:15,519 --> 00:51:27,519 It's a survey on belief in extra terrestrials and religious belief as well, so 441 00:51:27,599 --> 00:51:32,679 anyone can take it. Those members of the general public who might be listening 442 00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:37,039 to this can take the first answer the first twenty five questions, and we 443 00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:43,639 greatly appreciate it. We have about six hundred and fifty responses so far. 444 00:51:44,199 --> 00:51:51,199 We're going to be closing this at the end of the month, and so 445 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:57,800 we would appreciate as many surveys as we can get. Anyone who participates will 446 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:02,480 not be identified, will only be using the information they submit. The second 447 00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:08,039 part of the survey that does not have to be completed is about those who 448 00:52:08,159 --> 00:52:19,840 have experienced et contact or contact with religious beings, or contact with non human 449 00:52:20,079 --> 00:52:27,280 entities or ghosts or whatever. If you've had continued contact with something else that's 450 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,880 non human or might have at one time been human, would like your feedback 451 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:39,199 on that as well. And all of this it's a paranormalcat It's interesting how 452 00:52:40,519 --> 00:52:47,360 I'm fifty eight and I had experiences as a child and used to have premonitions 453 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:51,599 when I was a kid, and then something traumatic happened and it shut it 454 00:52:51,639 --> 00:52:54,599 down and I never got it back. But I was always fascinated by the 455 00:52:54,639 --> 00:52:59,119 paranormal, but it wasn't until I wrote my first book, which was a 456 00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:06,360 psychological thriller, that this paranormal life fell into my lap and started a whole 457 00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:10,079 new career for me over fifty. So I became a paranormal investment because I 458 00:53:10,119 --> 00:53:15,280 was writing true account ghost stories that people were sharing with me that happened to 459 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:20,119 them. Like you're writing about people's uf all encounters, I'm writing about their 460 00:53:20,199 --> 00:53:25,440 paranormal ghostly stories. So that very interesting. How we our journeys lead us 461 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:30,480 in different directions that we least expect. Yes, absolutely they do, and 462 00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:36,400 I think that it's a result of the knowledge we gain and from that knowledge 463 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:43,079 we take the next step. Absolutely well, thank you for what you do, 464 00:53:43,159 --> 00:53:46,800 because I think it's really important work and I think that those people experience 465 00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:55,119 these abductions need to be acknowledged and understood and that information should be shared with 466 00:53:55,159 --> 00:53:59,360 the world. So thank you for all that you've done for so many years. 467 00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:07,719 It has been my pleasure and my greatest goal in life. So thank 468 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:13,440 you so much for inviting me to appear on your show. Appreciate it, 469 00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,320 and to the listeners out there, I like listening to this week's episode and 470 00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:22,639 you're into all things paranormal, check out my other show, Eleanor Wagner's Creeping 471 00:54:22,679 --> 00:54:25,960 It Real podcast out of the Coast to Coast Entertainment Network, which is available 472 00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:30,119 wherever you get your podcasts. If you miss any episode, you can watch 473 00:54:30,159 --> 00:54:35,599 it and listen to it directly on my Eleanor Wagner YouTube channel. If any 474 00:54:35,639 --> 00:54:37,599 of you are interested in reading any of my books, you can find them 475 00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:42,800 on Amazon, but you can get signed copies directly through me at author Eleanor 476 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,679 Wagner at gmail dot com. I write about the history of the town and 477 00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:50,519 the location, add the paranormal story to the mix, and I finish it 478 00:54:50,559 --> 00:54:54,039 all off with photos and evidence. I hope you'll stay a while and listen 479 00:54:54,039 --> 00:55:00,159 as Silent Crafters Stranger Part two takes us out of the show. Ghostly listeners, 480 00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:06,840 you can sign up or level up on my author Eleanor Wagner Patreon program 481 00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:12,639 that's p A T R E O N, where you will find special bonus 482 00:55:12,679 --> 00:55:17,719 opportunities only available to its patrons, such as one on ones with me and 483 00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:24,440 co hosting opportunities on episodes of Eleanor Wagner's Strange and Scary World Podcast. Thank 484 00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:30,800 you paranormal enthusiasts for tuning in today. I hope you'll come back again. 485 00:55:30,559 --> 00:55:36,679 Remember to tap into your own gifts, everyone has them, and in the 486 00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:38,280 meantime, make sure you're creeping it real