The Chili Effect is sponsored by Wallstreet Window dot Com and listeners like you now
and now in aden Jack. And just like that, it's the fourteenth day
of March twenty twenty four. What is that? One day away from what
they call the IDEs of March? Is that correct? I think so?
Anyway, here it is Thor's Day. And who do I have with me?
Mike Swanson, the guy behind Wallstreet Window dot com. Uh, and
he is more than happy to come on and talk to all of you people.
No matter how you're catching the show, you could be hearing it on
the live stream, which means that you know, I went to air about
fifteen minutes too late, as per usual, after eight pm Eastern time and
what we used to call America. But guess what Mike is on with me.
He's the guy behind Wallstreet Window dot com, more than happy to talk
to you. They are live on the stream or indeed, when we go
to the podcast and you use your final slab of choice, your applicable application,
your podcatcherdsore to catch up with the podcast as it is released on all
of the various platforms everywhere where. Podcasts are even an unofficial YouTube channel.
At this point, did I say that quietly? I think I did.
Anyway, Wallstreet Window dot com be in the no go over there. It's
not just about Wall Street. Also, he's the author of some very cool
books books. I highly recommend two of them. Indeed, right off the
bat, I recommend The War State, which you can see on my website
in the sidebar that read book cover with Ike on the front cover telling you
what warning you about the military industrial complex, et cetera, et cetera.
And what does Mike lay out in that book? A big warning about the
military industrial complex? Maybe, but he takes very complex things and simplifies them
so that they are quite a bit more accessible to the average reader who doesn't
want to be bored to death by historians who use all sorts of pedantic language
and repetitive stuff to their landing on their points. Right. Anyway, Mike
gives you an understanding of what went on during the twentieth century, and of
course the military industrial complex all the way up to the JFK assassination. Oh
right. Another book that I also recommend, Why the Vietnam War, the
first in a set of possibly three. Who knows as he's going along,
and I think he might be working on it this year. Maybe we'll see
it by the end of the year. Indeed, the second volume of the
book about that particular conflict, or should I say, the set of books
about that particular conflict, utilizing some things that, guess what, are not
pedestrian and seen in everyone else's work, and again in that really fascinating style
that makes the complex circumstance much more accessible to the average and merely interested reader.
So those things. But he's written other books. You know of a
book on the history of Danuel Virginia, a forward to a book on the
Roman Empire. I think that's still out there, about an ebook form which
was actually written by his but he wrote the forward on that financial books.
Bunch of stuff out there, but constantly. You can check in with Mike
at Wallstreet Window dot com and indeed in the show notes you'll find a social
media hookups where Mike is bothering to pay attention to him anymore. I think
not even looking at his x feed anymore. I think he's given up on
Twitter, but still on Facebook and in a few other places you can access
Mike, and best way really go to Wall Street Window dot com. Anyway,
Mike Now that I've given that kind of an odd loopty loop sort of
intro, we're gonna talk about something tonight, which again falls in the literary
category, definitely falls in your area of interest. And I find it interesting
when one author takes a look at what is being released via other authors,
right, not because of personal conflict or interpersonal relationships, but because it's interesting
to see that someone who might be let's say, actively participating in the creation
of the literature, especially in the post modern historical literary area that was created
only maybe seventy five eighty years ago. Now with the rise and fall the
third write, you know that modern contemporary historical writing style, which has you
know, obviously is the whole reason why the jfk assassination literature exists. Anyway,
somebody who's highly interested in that and effective and really fascinating writer like yourself
examining the literature. I always find this interesting, and that'll just be part
of what we discussed. But anyway, enough O of me. How you
doing tonight, Mike, I'm doing good. Well, yeah, yeah,
I'm working, starting to work on another book. And the reality is,
you know this the JFK Assassination, the topic you know, we both got
interested in it a long time ago, around the same time in the nineteen
nineties, And in a recent show we talked about This podcast is Rob Ryder
Podcast, and a lot of it's rawing on Dick Russell's book The Man Who
Knew Too Much. And I kind of in my first period of interest in
the Assassination is when I was in high school and then community college, and
that book was one of the last ones that I had read at that time.
And he's a very good writer, and because of that, I was
influenced by that book for a while. Well, Dick Russell is not only
an author as far as the long form with the books, but also he
wrote for various publications before that, did some investigative journalism. I mean,
he's clearly a fascinating and skilled writer for certain And yeah, you and I
getting into it favorably. I would say late eighties, the last couple of
years of the eighties probably had our ears pricked up with interest. Yeah,
the eighties, I meant, you know, the late eighties. Yeah,
but his book really focused on or suggested that hl Hunt and the right wing
played a role in the assassination and positive the theory that this General Charles Willoughby
could be the mastermind who was a right wing ringer. He was retired general
that served under Douglas MacArthur, but he had been retired over ten years at
the time assassination. But anyway, and now, you know, so that
this book kind of influenced me at the time. And then I went to
college and ended up with master's degree in history, and I dropped out of
a PhD program. But at one time, while I wasn't in college,
I had the notion of maybe, you know, back then this was really
a taboo topic, assassination, and especially in academia. I had a professor
tell me you couldn't have a career and write about the assassination, you know,
basically. But I had a notion back then that what I might do
is write about the right wing of the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties and the
people that Russell was in you know, talking about in his book. In
other words, now that would be a way to write about the assassination,
to study these these these characters, I thoughts, and I actually when I
was there, I got a hold of my back then. I don't know
if they still use it but microfish you could because I had I had access
to the college library. You could look at microfish. Documents were on there
and you know, you put them in the machine and look at them.
Right. Point of reference. Yeah, good requests point of reference for the
listener. Right. There was a time when you had either microfilm or microfiche.
Microfiche was more of a sheet sort of format, and microfilm could literally
be very long strips of literally film that went into a machine that you could
view and it had a backlight and a lot of newspaper research I was able
to do with this, like entire newspapers would be archived for the year on
like one spool of film, right, and you go through that with a
crank and everything else, and you'd have to request it from the librarian because
in most places you weren't allowed to handle the microfiche or microfilm on your own.
All of that, and there was a machine in the back or a
couple of machines in the back if you were in a big library, right,
And this was one of the things you could do. And certainly there
was documentation and various books in order to save space, you know, like
again, imagine the thing I talked about with the newspapers there. So let's
just say you have a whole year's worth of pick a newspaper anywhere, all
stacked up in one place, as opposed to maybe we could say two years,
three years worth of newspapers and put them into something that you can hold,
you know, with two hands, Yes, you know, like almost
like two brick sizes. Let's say two of the average masonry bricks size wise
instead of a stack of newspapers. I don't know how many feet tall it
would be in any given place, right, So this was a way of
saving space, preserving documents, so on and so forth. And today that
kind of stuff doesn't exist now we have all sorts of digital preservation. It
does still exist out there somewhere, but it's not really in use anymore,
seemingly. I don't think there are public libraries with this stuff anymore, Mike,
Have you noticed any of that in the past few years. I really
have no idea if there is or not. I haven't been to a college
library trying to look stuff up like that, because it's all excess, you
know, well we're looking at so looking to find as accessible on the internet,
or you'd have to go to the archives and d mostly. Yeah.
And the other thing is, even if you were to go to your local
library, first of all, try and find the place. I mean,
there are still library systems that exist, but hardly anybody uses them due to
the fact that we're in a different technological age. And of course, the
books that you're talking about so far here, like Dick Russell also the co
author with Jesse Ventura, so really the document research, the introduction of documents
that Jesse winds up. You know, he's the headline author on a bunch
of these books, right, regarding the assassination, regarding the turmoil of the
nineteen sixties, regarding covert operations. It's Dick Russell who's his co author because
he's bringing in the actual documents and research, and then Jesse does a lot
of commentary about it, and he had a fairly successful run with his books
as well. This week alone, by the way, just weird sort of
thing I'm gonna mention is today indeed, I got a hold of a book
called Final Analysis, all right, which is co authored between David Mantick,
whose name you might have heard for if you've been into the assassination research community,
and authors, and he's authored various pieces and apparently a couple of books
now but used to be Dave Mantick was a contributor to various other collective works.
And guess who is co author is Jerome Corsi. I'm gonna leave that
commentary alone because I haven't read the book yet, and I am going to
read it, and I plan on interviewing doctor Mantick on the show about this
book. But that's an aside. Mike. You're talking about literature, and
you gave me a list which I put in the live chatroom at o'chelli dot
com and will also be included in the show. Notes, it would not
be from the realm of books that might contain the works of Jerome Corsi or
David Mantick though the list of stuff you gave me. So what is it
that Let's go back to your historical portion here you're talking about how it was
that you were introduced to these things, and you're looking through the microfilm and
microfiche at the libraries. This is early on where you actually had to go
out and go somewhere in order to go find new documents, new writings,
new pieces of you know, preserved documentation for various things. Let's go back
to that Mike and continue on. Well, I just wouldn't make a simple
point. I always had access to a major university library, and there are
all these you know, old magazines, old right wing publications. Everything you
could think of was in there, and I could look it up. And
so I'd have maybe a box full of if you know, stuff about the
right wing. I was requesting dissertations, master's theses, you know that other
people had written. You've got a whole box of stuff. Did you get
printouts of the micro did you get printouts of the microfilm and microfiche stuff?
Sometimes bring that home piles of that too. Yeah, So what I've got
is and by the way, by right wing stuff, you don't mean the
uh, you know, the really run of the mill sort of things that
people would see today, Like you know, you're whatever, what is his
name I'm talking about You're talking about John Birch. You're talking about like John
Birch Society, John Birch Society, just McCarthy, those people, uh people,
Uh, what's the villa James Hargus Publications, who's connected to General Walker?
H. L. Hunt stuff? And what in the microfish thing.
So what I did is in in Norfolk, Virginia, there's a Douglas MacArthur
Museum and library and I and they had the personal papers of this general Willoughby
a microfish. So I requested that and got it and looked at it and
uh, I've got a stack of his papers. Well, did you request
all of his papers or just I mean it was a microfish Okay, it
was just a microfish copy of all his of his papers worth the stuff.
So you requested like printouts of all the micropiece that they had from his personal
papers at they mailed the act, they mailed the microfish. Wow, okay,
yay, okay. So I had the microfish and put that in the
machine and I could print out pages of it. So that's what I did.
Was that on loan or could you buy that? I mean it was
on loan? I mean maybe you could buy it. I don't, I
don't know, but it was on loan. Just curious, okay. I
want to see if somebody else could do this, if they you know,
if they could get it on loan, maybe they could request it. Uh
is happening I mean nowadays? And maybe even be online. I don't know.
But but to make a long story short, I'm just bringing this up
to say I had a notion that one day I would write a book about
the people I thought were involved in the assassination. And then it's time,
you know, by looking at honestly, by looking at the papers. When
I was done looking the papers, I came in conclusion WILLI had nothing to
do with because one of the things that was evident was he there was like
a letter from nineteen sixty four, I think it was to either H.
O. Hunt or Bunker Hunt, and it was clear he never even met
him, you know, he he hadn't he hadn't met them in person yet
using communication with him, but you know, never even met the people in
person. So and then this time went on, just became more skeptical of
that. Anyway, What you're saying is is that the presentations about Willoughby being
involved also have to do with him having direct contact with the Hunts. And
what you found through their correspondence is that it seemed as though he had not
actually interacted with them in person based on the letters and things he was writing
here. Yeah, I mean they had they had lots of letters back and
forth for years, but I don't think that they and they knew each other.
They may talked on the Federals, but it didn't seem like they had
ever met in person. But regardless of what's happening now with what I'm doing
now, as I've written those two books that you mentioned, the War State
and Why the Vietnam War, and my idea, I mean, the time
just goes by. It's been over ten years since I put out that War
State book, but I think it was twenty eleven. But my idea when
I wrote that was I was going to start to write about the national security
state and that book would just be an introduction for my own self researching it,
but also more of a surface level, you know, intro for the
reader. The next book, Why the Vietnam War would be more detailed and
like a case study of using Vietnam and the Kennedy decision to send advisors that
that's when it ends. It would be like a case study showing you how
the national security state works in some detail. And now do that it shows
you how the Joint Jesus Staff structured, how the Joint Staff's important. So
it's not just a book, you know, saying CIA or something, and
how different advisors around Kennedy were pushing him too to send you know, soldiers
to Vietnam in nineteen sixty one, he obviously he sent advisers instead, and
not in the book. But what I'm gonna do now is right in more
detail from nineteen sixty one, the end of that book, basically to Kennedy's
death. And I'm going to write about the people I think were involved.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna make a book saying X this person's the mastermind
or something like that. But I'm gonna have a lot of the people I
think were involved in it are gonna figure throughout the book, and their name.
Some of them are names that people don't aren't familiar with, most people
aren't familiar with. Okay, So what you're saying is you've discovered that there's
a whole lot of people that previously had not really been named in the literature,
et cetera. Uh, that that you believe may have indeed had a
serious involvement here. Yeah, Like one of them is in one of John
Newman's books. That's the only place they're mentioned. Okay, But anyway,
Uh, but it's gonna be similar to the last book the way it's written,
and and you know about the foreign policy and and so forth. But
I've already written two. I've written three draft introductions over the last year,
and one of them is going to be the first chapter. One of them
I'm just going to throw in the trash. And the one that's an introduction
is what I'm working on now. And while I'm looking at these Kennedy books
that came out of the past couple of years. So in this introduction,
I'm just trying to figure out, well to write it. I'm trying to
figure out what the government is putting out about the assassination, because I think
the stance the like, where does the thing stand? Now? What?
What? What? So? On one hand, if you look, you
know, I don't want to go on too much about this. I want
to talk more about the government's putting out. But if you just look at
where the assassination community, I don't know what else what else to call it,
but where where it's at, you know, years ago, but fifteen
years ago whenever it was when that James Douglas book came out, the Jim
Douglas book that was a breakthrough book. You know, it had a big
impact, not just on the assassination community, but it was a breakthrough book
outside of it. Maybe not since Mark Lane's book or David Lifton's book,
did you know, I don't think did any other book have you know,
as big of an impact. You know, I mentioned when I was in
college, graduate school is a taboo stop topic, right, And then when
the Jim Douglas book came out, I went back up to an event up
there, and academics up there were talking about the Jim Douglas book that I
bumped it. You know, they're freely talking about the topic. So it
was a big deal. Now in the idea that he posits the Pentagon,
the CIA killed Kennedy and because you know, he was for peace and against
their policies, or he was for ending the Cold War, were not intervening
in Vietnam and so forth. Right, Well, let me let me help
you out here a little bit, because look, the Douglas book, which
by the way, I had a little hand in getting the audiobook published,
and I'm just taking a look back, it looks to me like one of
the publication dates for the audiobook was in twenty eleven in May, and that's
when the audiobook came out. Now, before that, it went through two
printings, one with Orbits and one with Simon and Schuster. What happens in
between those two printings is a bit of odd. Notice, because the book
came out and it was fairly successful and it was sort of a niche thing
within the assassination community. That it was well written. It was the first
time that somebody had done one of these very smoothly written, kind of very
accessible books to give a big picture, a kind of viewpoint on the assassination,
right, not getting bogged down in minutia so much, but to give
a big picture like why did this happen? Literally, that's the subtitle,
why he died? Right, and why it matters? Okay, your book
the War State. According to Amazon, by the way, it's I'm not
sure if this is the audio release or the total release twenty thirteen, So
in that same time period where the Douglas book is getting traction, by the
way, for a very simple reason, Oliver Stone went on Bill Maher's TV
show A Real Time and handed this book to Bill Maher on TV and told
Bill Maher that this is one of the most amazing things. Ever, you're
gonna have to read this book. It'll change your mind. Because Bill Maher
famously is completely like against anything that speaks about, you know, any sort
of conspiracy, anything outside of official narratives. Bill mah will not tolerate that
in any way, shape or form. Right on his show, come on,
there's no conspiracy. Come on, there's nothing to see here, no
matter what the situation is. Oliver Stone hands him the copy of the Orbits
book, which is a small Catholic publisher that Douglas had put the book out
to begin with. And the next thing you know, this book is on
fire because Oliver Stone thought it was important enough to hand to Bill Maher.
That's really the weird story that leads to Simon and Schuster turning around and picking
it up, mass producing it, and now it's indeed one of the most
highly lauded books out there. Gives a big picture and makes it accessible,
much like you're writing. Makes the whole larger concept here, which is about,
like you said, his turn to peace. This is the thing that
gets him killed by this unspeakable element out there, and there's more to it
than that. But he also spends a lot of time on Neguel by the
way, just you know, just like Dick Russell does not as much obviously
because the whole book that Russell wrote, The Man who Knew Too Much,
was about Miguel, right, but he spends some time on Neguel as well.
But anyway, this is a huge success story, did very well and
has become one of those go to books in the assas. But that's on
the conspiracy side of things. That's for the conspiracy advocacy group of people that
are interested in the assassination. Right. But now you're talking about taking a
look at the way the government is representing stuff and things like that, and
I really want to hear what you have to say about it, because this
is fascinating. What we've seen go on, especially in the past say,
five six years, has been an immense amount of attention paid to document releases
and everything else because of the post aa r B situation, right the ar
RB excuse me, Assassination Records Review Board. Because so that situation, the
document release that was supposed to happen in twenty seventeen, et cetera, et
cetera. There's been a new set of narratives sort of released here by the
powers that be and the media which backs them up in recent years. So
all of that in a nutshell is very interesting to me. And your reaction
to this is kind of different. You're deciding that you're going to go into
this some more break it down. I like how the war state is by
the way, I like a primer for any reader. Get yourself ready to
go into the rest of this, and now you dive into the particulars.
Here's the Vietnam War, the conflict there, and now you're going to go
into the spheres of influence, the geopolitical, the movers and shakers who might
be in the spook community, or might not be in the spook community,
might be part of the military, might be part of the rich elite class
that just get things done. Sometimes it's dirty business and sometimes it's just business
as usual. Either way, you're stepping into that realm now, and you're
gonna give us a different look at some of these things. It sounds like
to me or am I wrong? Uh yeah, well some of it's gonna
be about that, But it's still gonna have I mean, it's it's I
gotta start writing it. We really get get it going. But well you
did fifteen intros. What's going on with that? I mean, you don't
feel satisfied or you don't think it covered everything? No, no, I
had written to Well one is just a not just like three pages and stuff,
but one one. There was gonna be ideas for two separate books.
Basically I'm just gonna make one the first chapter. But uh, the thing
is like from the government side, when the Oliver Stone movie came out,
before the I mean, after the Warren Commission, Gerald Ford wrote a book,
David Bellan wrote a book. And then when I started getting interested in
this and you did, the internet was coming up and John McAdams had his
Usenet group. There's another guy, a couple other people online too. Well,
there was a lot of them on the pro you know, conspiracy side,
conspiracy people, and there was the the what is a JFK was from
JFK murder dot com. Uh, you know, the educational forum, which
is a subdivision of something else, became dominated in the one section. A
lot of stuff went on here, and there is an interesting story to be
told, not only from the government reaction, but also from the point of
view of what the media did with it. Well that that's that's maybe the
media. Actually, maybe media should be a better word. I should be
using then what the government's putting now, so at when, at that,
at that, in that era, and then the Alverstone movie comes out.
You know, he was savaged for doubting the Warren Commission. I mean for
a year, was in magazines when magazines back then were big. You know,
Nick Dolf disappeared. Now, Gerald Positive wouldn't even have a book.
Gerald Positor wouldn't even have a book contract if he wasn't there to respond to
all the you know, all the hoopla that was created by the JMK.
But the thing is like, and then the Positive book comes out, It
was all supporting the Warren Commission and attacking people who didn't believe in its version
of events, right, and then and then as time goes on, it
became it fell in even more disrepute to believe the Warren Commission, or it
fell on more disrepute because you know, we get so much more information in
these files about what was actually going on when Kennedy was president. And then
about Oswald. I mean, Jefferson Morley's work shows that the CIA knew about
Oswald. Newman showed that, right, and they had denied that they were
even keeping up with them. Basically, well, what you have is from
okay, September nineteen sixty four, let's go back. You have the media
standing by ready to back up. Guess what, They had copies of the
Warren Commission report before the public Adam. They were in the midst of television
shows backing up the Warren Commission's conclusions before anybody had the Warren Commission Report in
their hands except Brian. So they're in the middle of doing that. And
that's not just CBS, which is the most famous one, but there was
literally one on each network broadcasting that day to back up the story of the
Warren Commission. Now, oh, and I got a quote like the introduction
when I'd finished this introduction thing, I'll send it to you. I would.
I definitely want to see it. I got quotes from one of the
I think it's the CBS news producer of the sixties saying that he thought it
was a conspiracy, but they put out these programs anyway. Yes, it
didn't matter, you know. And that's the funny thing. There's a bunch
of people involved with the production of this stuff who were like, look,
I was just following orders pretty much. But the thing is, though that
Bugliosi book came out and I never read the thing. I think you said
you read it. I did, I got it. It's just this guy.
It's one of the biggest books I've ever held my hands, and it's
bigger than the Bible, you know, And it's just him and Raven for
on and on and on. Well, a million dollar contract this guy gets.
And one half of the book is him basically writing a true story but
in a narrative form where he's literally creating lines and stuff between Lee and Marina
and stuff like that, right, telling you the story of the assassination.
That's one half of the book. Then the rest of it is him pretty
much tearing into everybody who's ever posited a conspiracy theory and saying they're wrong.
They got wrong, the Warrant Commission got it right. And what is this
thing? Two thousand pages? Okay literally plus a CD that goes along with
it, with a whole bunch of footnotes and stuff. Right, your yours
came with a CD? I bet yeah, pretty sure it did. Anyway,
this thing is like a simple one. The thing is, it's a
loan assassin book, Oh yeah, big, and it was a bust,
you know. And he got on he had TV coverage, yep, but
the book was a flop. No matter what they did, they had him
on. They had him on every TV and radio outlet possible. They put
him out there, and Tom Hanks snapped it up, signed him up for
another contract to do a Playton documentary about it, and everything. Oh right,
all that stuff was going on. And here's the amazing part. Within
a short amount of time, this big, huge, I think it was
a fifty dollars book, brand new. Right. I go to the bookstore.
I know, Grandpa, you're going to bookstores back then, but they
still existed. I assure you. You go to a bookstore, these things
were on the rack. I bought all of them off of a one rack.
Mike, I don't know if I ever told you this story. I
bought all the discounted Bugliosi books off of a rack because I didn't want anybody
else to accidentally buy them on discount, because all of a sudden, these
fifty dollars books, which, by the way, even today the audiobook is
expensive as hell, because I mean, look, your War State book has
an eight hour runtime. Imagine how long his stupid book is okay on series
all right? Anyway, I bought all of them off of the rack because
they all ended up being like double extra discounted down to about four bucks apiece.
So I spent like forty dollars okay, to buy all the Bougliosi books
they had left at the bookstore and the mall. I took them outside.
I ripped out the picture section, okay, and stuck that in a folder
and dumped the rest of them in the dumpster. That's literally I threw away
my own money back then, just to make sure that nobody else would accidentally
buy these pieces of toxic crap. That's how angry I was with the Buglio
c PR push that was out there, and quite frankly, I mean you
had people literally trying to go to Tom Hanks and Gary Getzman and these other
people that were involved in Playton begging them please do not produce a massive documentary
series because he was going to do this with HBO, and it was going
to be like a ten part series laying out his book that nobody wanted to
read. Who the hell's going to watch this thing? Nobody wants to read?
The book. They paid him millions of dollars each time they got him
to sign a contract. Nobody could sit through it. And to this day,
even though most of us, you know, in the assassination research community
hate the book, I'll tell you what put ten of us in a room.
If one of us actually read the whole thing, you're lucky. And
I'm one of the few people I know that can claim that I read the
entire thing. It took me a couple of months, to be honest with
you, because I kept falling asleep reading it, Mike, So it took
me a few months to get through that book. And it was massive,
massive, especially for the you know, just believe the Warrant commission. Oh
and by the way, he did so well in his mock trial. That
was the other portion of the book. When he's you know, ripping into
every researcher, right, he's also telling you about how great he did during
his mock trial in nineteen eighty six. So that was the other elements.
Well, you own this thing. The thing about the book is I think
that was the last gasp of the lone assassin people. Ah okay, And
since then, the media has shifted. Now they tried one shift that was
very short lived and it's just stupid. But it's epitomized by the movie Parkland,
right, which was an awful just I mean, as most movies are
awful, so nothing unusual. But it came out in twenty thirteen. I
think it was a it may it may have had Tom Hanks, may have
had something to do it too, producing it or something. But well,
yeah, a bunch of stuff was released around the fiftieth anniversary, right,
so that stuff turns into this, you know, massive let's push back again
once again at the warrant commission. But you are correct to say that things
have changed a bit now. It doesn't mean that the mainstream media has gone
onto our side of the camp at all. No, no, no,
I want to describe what they're doing. But anyway, this Parkland movie comes
out and what they try to do in the movie, and the director of
it says, this is not talk about whether it's a conspiracy or not,
but just focus on how people suffered, you know, the witnesses suffered,
and make a melodrama out of that, and that's supposed to be meaningful.
And the thing about that's such a weird argument, but there is a Vietnam
war book that came out and I've talked about on your show. I don't
know it's bestseller, but it's a piece of crap, came out a couple
of years ago, a British author thing. But that's what he says in
the book. He doesn't want to litigate the war or get in any of
the academic controversy. Is just focused on the on the suffering. And actually,
now I think about it, that what's that that documentary on PBS we
did talk about endlessly endless documentary about Vietnam to sort of try to take that
tack too. Yeah, well, here's the weird thing, right. They
also did it with Bobby Kennedy's assassination if you remember the movie Bobby, Yeah,
followed other characters around during those circumstances and showed the chaos of it.
And you know, the one guy getting shot who had nothing to do with
anything, he just happened to be there. Another one's having an affair with
the girl who's you know, cutting hair and whatever. All this weird stuff
going on. And they did that to time it with the fiftieth anniversary.
In addition to giving what the garbage to the conspiracy thought, you know,
thought my mindset, if you will, when they released that whole documentary series
that was like, well, Oswald might have been a Russian agent. I
don't know if you remember that. But a former CIA guy goes and gets
a long term contract to do this whole thing about Oswald might have been remember
it. But either way, a whole bunch of disinformation seems to come out,
you know, timed rather nicely for the added interest that's gonna come up
on the fiftieth anniversary as well. Well, that's so, that's the real
key thing is so this book I'm reading, this book now called a cruel
and Shocking Act and has written by a former New York Times reporter who did
Pentagon and you know State Department reporting that, and it got huge publicity on
the on the fiftieth this and that there's the Larry Sabato book got huge publicity.
And that the Larry Sabato book. He was a UVA government professor.
He he didn't really take any hard stand in the book whether it was a
conspiracy or not. It was a badly written book. Like look, it
appeared as if a team of people wrote it and he supervised them, and
it was designed to get him on television publicity, which by the way,
it's been alleged that Bolosi's book was written the same way. But yeah,
and Shocking Act. But anyway, that that that that Larry Sabatae book in
this Cruel and not Shocking Act book. These are the two key books on
the on the fiftieth that were touted in the media in this Cruel Shocking Act
book. I didn't read it at the time. I'm reading it now because
I want to in this introduction get an idea of what's or tell people what's
what the stances of the media and the government now and this book. I
remember there was a segment on Face the Nation or one of those Sunday morning
shows with Bob Woodward on it and Bill Sefer was an old reporter that had
covered the Kennedy case, and they were saying that the book was shocking.
I mean, I remember seeing this. You can find it on YouTube type
Philip Shennon and it'll come up on YouTube somewhere. But they were saying it
was shocking revelations and they no longer believe the Warren Commission. You know,
on national television on the fifteenth anniversary, we no longer believe the Warren Commission,
and Bob Woodward was saying this, you know, and they didn't say
what they believed. And there was a lady on there saying, it's just
you know, shocking what they suppressed, the information they suppressed, and it
had the national security state would do this. They choose that phrase national security
state. And so now I'm reading the book, and first I'm on the
guy to say it's very well written. It's a good read as far as
you know, it's really good read. It's one of the best written books
as far as ease of reading goes about the assassination. But it's complete propaganda.
You know, I'm surprised you don't mention the book by somebody who actually
has the same last name as you, published around the same time The President
has been shot, right, which was published in September twenty thirteen. Well,
I just remember, I think that book was just trying to make money
off of it, you know, of course, James Swanson, by the
way, it's just trash, no relation to you. It's not an important
book. It's just trash, but no relation to you. Like Bill O'Reilly
books, they're just trash but no relation to you, right, Okay,
just check and just check. Yeah, when was Bill O'Reilly's book released?
I think his was actually earlier than twenty thirteen. Yeah, it was earlier
in twenty thirteen. But either way, we're talking about stuff that either pretends
to sensationalize and give you a new view on things and then doesn't, or
just comes out and pretty much says, well, you know, maybe the
Warren Commission got a couple of things wrong, but overall, you know,
like like Bellen's book in the what was it the nineteen sixties or seventies,
he comes out of a book that says history will prove us right. I
think it was called right, And Bellen was, you know, part of
the Warren Commission. Yeah. So but here we go. This is mostly
what these books are, and all of it meant to flank and support the
official conclusion. Right, Well, so that's not what this book's doing.
So it's saying the Warren it's he interviews the staffers such as David Bellin right,
he's they're the main source for this cruel and acting, cruel and shocking
act book, and he really lionizes them, you know, makes them sound
like they try to do the best job they could, but the FBI didn't
give them all the information, the CIA didn't give them all the information,
and what was being possibly covered up he doesn't say definitively, but he puts
out the idea that it was a conspiracy, even possibly Ruby was involved in
the conspiracy. But it was a Castro plot. Oh okay, well that's
the other you know populars. Yeah, but here's the thing, like the
Ruby thing. As evidence that Ruby was tied of Castro, he says Ruby
took trips to Castro, trips to Cuba, like five trips to Cuba before
the assassination. Most of them are in the nineteen fifties. Well, he
did take trips to Cuba. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he took five
trips, but he says he only told the Warran commissioned investigators about one of
them, and because he didn't talk about the other four, he could have
been involved in a Cuba plot. Well, what a shock. He doesn't
want to tell the government people that he was down there doing some gun running
outside of what they could absolutely prove. I mean, you know, when
I'm talking to a cop, I'm gonna go listen. I wasn't involved with
the murder. I was selling cocaine over here, you know what I mean,
you don't do that. So he's not going to turn around and be
like, yeah, that's right on this date, in this date, I
was down there gun running and on this other come on, you know,
let's know. Yeah. So, and then with Oswald, he's citing this
story by June cob and then some other lady that lived in Mexico who who
was I think a Mexican national, who said that they saw Oswald at a
party with people from the Cuban government. Right, So, and that's the
only source is these two statements in the government that our government investigated him and
didn't believe them. Well, and then you have the visits to the visit
of evidence, Yeah, the visit to Silviodio's apartment right where you know,
supposedly he's in the company of these other you know, these other anti castro
Cuban guys who want her father's assistants because he was an active, you know
guy in the Cuban community, and et cetera, et cetera. There's that
whole nexus of weirdness. But trying to put Oswald in the vicinity of Cuban's
not too hard. He's out there handing out fair play for Cuba Committee stuff,
you know, and ends up in that fight with Berengear and clearly yeah,
but Castro Cubans, well no, But my point is that any Cubans
he could have been around for one reason or another, right, because he's
doing pro Castro stuff out there clashing with anti Castro Cubans, right, So,
I mean he's got a wide variety of people that he could interact with
that have nothing to do with an assassination plot. Necessarily, I'm not discounting
the idea that you know, Cubans could be involved. Well, are you
like give to give you a flavor of what he's saying. Sure, he
says that, and I means a lot of stuff's true. Okay. When
the there's a John Whitten who is a officer who, after the assassination was
charged by Richard Helms of take taking charge of an internal investigation on the part
of the CIA in a assassination, that's true. And then James A.
Ingleton push gets this guy pushed aside, and he takes it, takes it
over. Now, what Shennon says is that when Angleton took it over.
Angleton was convinced that the Soviet Union had something to do with it, so
he prevented the SA people from investigating a Castro angle okay, and therefore the
if there is a Castro conspiracy, it didn't it didn't get successfully discovered because
of Angleton. Well, just like the games that are played by the media
where they put out, you know, clearly ridiculous stuff like the whole hey
maybe Oswald's a Russian agent nonsense right in ten parts on the History Channel.
Sometimes that stuff is released to do what to purposely give people another direction to
go in that has nothing to do with where the actual evidence goes. Right.
This is a typical tactic, I mean clearly in the intelligence communities,
but also in media circles. Look look at this, look at this stuff,
just like when they were doing the headlines when these documents were dropping,
right, Mike. So yeah, So there there was a CIA guy named
Brian Lttel before the fiftieth anniversary. He and his job supposedly was the guy
in the CIA tasked with monitoring Castro and you know, predicting Castro and stuff.
And he put out a book about like a history book of Castro,
and then he said in the book he said Castro probably did the assassination and
he was a c guy, right. And then the CIA itself put out
a history of John mccoone, the director, and said that I'm using a
quote here, but non cover up, that he was involved in a benin
cover up of CIA A CAA's connections to the Cubans, that some of the
Dicastro Cubans that were around Oswald, and that's what they were covering up because
they didn't want it to embarrass them, right, So, by and benign
cover up, what they usually mean when they use that phrase is that it's
not that they're the guilty party, right, they're covering they're doing a Cya
move here, you know, right right. So, But but what I'm
trying to say is, up until really the fiftieth or up until the Bugliosi
book, okay, which was two thousand and seven. Up until then,
the government, the mainstream media was always one hundred percent Ward commissions. Correct.
If you doubt it, you're crazy. After two thousand and seven they
shift to saying, give the Ward commission was wrong. They they were honest,
they just didn't get all the information, and it may have been a
Castro plot, and that's that's where we're at. Or it may have been
a Russian plot. You know. The one of the former CI directors,
James Wooseley. Wooseley, I think it is Woolsey, Yeah, Woozy.
He put out a book, say in the Soviet Union and the KGB,
it recruited Oswald at Mexico City, right, And we even had the television
special right about here's the KGG files on it. And indeed the KGB did
an investigation of the assassination and came to different conclusions than what the Warrant Commission
did. You know, intelligence agencies investigating the assassination of a foreign leader not
unusual by the way, but all this stuff going on, they shifted to
now giving you junk. You know what I mean. You want to believe
a conspiracy, Fine, here's your conspiracy. We're gonna give you the crappiest
thing possible for you to follow up on. I mean, and the weird
nexus even comes up in what you're saying right here, you're talking about Castro,
right, his direct involvement. Even Oliver Stone went and interviewed Castro.
I don't have you ever seen that You ever seen the interview that Stone did
with Castro, and he outright asked him, you know, look, did
you have anything to do with the assassination? Now, of course Castro,
even if he did, wouldn't say that he did. But that's irrelevant anyway,
because Castro makes an interesting point during that interview where he's like, look,
how ridiculous and foolish would it be for me to participate in that sort
of thing. I was already having enough problems. This is not something that
I would be at the head of. I mean, just logically speaking.
But either way, people have convoluted this idea that Castro's involved, and then
they have Yeah, but they got them all for the United States to try
to assassinate Putin. Yeah, what would it accomplish, well, right,
to assassinate the leader of China? What would it accomplish? Nothing? Well,
not going to change anything. Yeah, Number one, you wouldn't do
it yourself, okay, because you'd probably send somebody else to do it in
case they get caught. It's got nothing to do with you. That would
be the first thing you do with a powerful nation with you know, say
resources, to do that sort of thing. And oh, by the way,
they put out an assassination guide the US did, explaining exactly how they
would conduct these sorts of things. But here we go, right, they
give you a bunch of garbage, Just like on the media when they were
releasing these documents. Bit by bit, you see a headline right after the
commercial there might have been shots from the front, right, and they go,
oh, and people tune in and go they want to see it,
this and that, and who's coming up to discuss it? Jero Posner,
of course, you know. And they bring it out and what is it?
A document where an FBI agent took a report from somebody who says they
believe the shots came from the front. Who was the source. We don't
even know who the source was. We don't know what their vantage point was,
We don't know. It's just somebody that was a source for the FBI
said that they believed there were shots from the front and that this book.
Yeah, so I've read half of it, okay, And they talk about
the single bullet theory and James Tag hasn't he mentioned this whole book, No
mention of James Tag, Just like the whole reason why they had to create
the single bullet scenario was because James Tag was struck. I mean literally,
I mean there's I mean, that's about the most plain way to explain it.
How do you get around explaining Arlen Spector creating this theory which he was
calling toward the end of his life, the single bullet fact. Now,
I don't know if you remember that it's the single bullet fact. It's absolute
fact that this is what happened. Anyway, he has to create this why
because now they have a shot which lands way down the street, ends up
getting Tag struck with you know, most likely pieces of curbstone or something that
jumped up and cut his face a little bit, not a big cut.
But the whole reason why they had to figure out how to make two bullets
work instead of three is because one of them is clearly way the hell away
from the car. I mean, am I right or wrong? Mike?
Mike correct? What he he just what he puts in this book is that
they he says, they looked at the Suppruiter film and tried to figure out
where the shots were you know, made in the film, okay, and
that the timing there wasn't enough, you know, they they they determined that
there are two there wasn't enough time for three shots to hint both people,
so therefore they came up a single bullet theory. But I don't know why
they don't mention tag at all. I mean, it's not in the book
at all, because that has nothing to do with it. If you read
the executive sessions, which have now been made public, and long before this
guy had sat there like this, you would see the discussion where part of
the problem is not the amount of time necessarily, but the fact is that
he's hidden behind a sign. And then the films from the other side of
the street do not give you a clear idea of exactly when the strikes happened.
Say, you know, you might be able to see the headshot on
Kennedy, but you can't tell when Connolly was struck, say from the nixt
film or the much more film, all right, which is part of the
problem. How do you get Kennedy and Connolly both wounded in this short amount
of time with three bullets and now you have to pull one out of the
equation because of take and this guy doesn't even mention that part. That's that's
hilarious, Okay. I mean, you know, talk about cherry picking your
evidence to fit your conclusion. Anyway, Mike, I know I've run you
around and he didn't mention miss Strange well, and he gave me a couple
other books here in this in this list, but I mean there are tons
of them. I mean I mentioned that one by Swanson because I just think
it's funny that he's got the same last name as you. But oh,
the other book, I just say, real quick, the Epstein book.
I did actually read this when it came out, The Assassination Diary it so
this came out in twenty thirteen two, and really, I would you know,
I would say Epstein was doing all this stuff before Shedden did. Epstein
was really the first person to take this track of saying the Warren Commission got
things wrong, didn't get the truth. But it was a well in Epstein's
case, he said it was a Soviet pot. Well, like I said,
it's possibly a Soviet pot right, So it's always either you know,
the Russians or the Cubans, and here's your you know, talk about a
red herring, right literally. But Epstein's got an interesting background to begin with
because he's one of the earliest writers here on the assassination and at one time
was seen as what one of the primary Warren Commission critics, right right,
So you know, going back to he wrote what Legend and a few other
I'll get the titles. In Quest is the first book he wrote in Quest,
and it's a criticism of Lorren Commission, and it's a devastating criticism,
indeed it is. But then what does he come back around to, Well,
he got to talking to James Angleton and his assistance and he wrote Legend,
right, which is focuses on Lee, Harvey Oswald and all that stuff.
And you're right, yeah, in Quest was the first one. And
what was the publication here? I got to see that. I'm going to
check that out while you're talking here for a second. But what is interesting
about this? You know, thirty forty years later after yeah, it's like
forty years after his first books come out, he puts out this other one.
Go ahead, Well, just this Assassination Diary came out twenty thirteen,
the same year as the Shedding book I've been talking about, but it's shorter
and you get the same basic argument, the more Commission's wrong. But you
know there's a foreign plot, right. And the thing is that you could
find a single volume from Epstein which they bundled him together at one point and
put together in Quest, counterplot, and legend into one book. But they
were initially issued in the nineteen sixties. So I just want to make that
point there. But then this new one in twenty thirteen, again, fiftieth
anniversary. Time to cash in once again? Right? Was Bugliosi dead yet?
I don't know if he was dead by twenty thirteen. I think he
was still around. Maybe I got to check that. But he died,
you know, before the sixtieth I know that for sure. But again,
big giant flop that book, and somehow he was very, very proud of
it, and of course it was the logical thing to do after he made
such a great showing in that nineteen eighty six you know, mock trial and
all. I mean, have you ever watched that whole thing? By the
way, I just seen clips of it. Okay, if you ever want
to see the whole thing, I'm sure I have an extra copy of it
on DVD. I'll give it to you. It's it's something to watch.
I mean, it's it's interesting. There's real witnesses. Mind you, real
witnesses are retired judge and literally citizens of Dallas. Uh, you know,
brought together for this mock trial that they said was occurring in Dallas but actually
occurred in England. Right. They flew everybody over there and pretended like they
were still in a Dallas courtroom, just saying and and you know that should
tell you something from the beginning where this thing started. But anyway, putting
all these things together and taking a look at this, you know, this
new version of Okay, I'll criticize the Warrant Commission, but at the same
time, I'm not actually interested in the truth because why not pin the tail
on the COMI one way or another? You know what about that? I
mean, what what do you see all? I mean, I think it's
propaganda, But I suspect this is gonna be the story for that they're gonna
keep stick to, you know, for the rest of our lives. So
you think for the next couple of decades, they're definitely gonna stick to this
and just hope that interest dies out. Yeah, Like, you have an
unsolvable crime, but if you were to solve it, it must be a
communist plot of some type or another, and that's where they're going with this
altogether. You think, yeah, yeah, And and this Sheddon book,
they're gonna they'll say, this is the best book to read about the Warren
Commission. M yeah, this is gonna be what people want in the Washington
d C. The establishment there, that this is what they're gonna read him.
You know, wow, you know. And also you have this book,
what was it called My Search Something to Day? Oh? Yeah,
that's that's the diary. The sub the subtitle was My Search for Answers to
the Mystery of the Century, and that was released in September of twenty thirteen.
You know, coincidentally, I think that was released literally exactly fifty years
from the time the Warren Commission was released. I think you're right. I
think they literally released it on that date. But you know what's funny is
I go to an Amazon page. I'm kidding, I can't believe I'm saying
this, but I go to an Amazon page to go look at that book
real fast, just to make sure I got my fact straight. And do
you know what the suggested books are underneath that? But you know, you
come up under there. Really, that's good. The war State comes up
under there, and let's see products related to this item, similar items that
can be delivered to you quickly on the trail of the assassinations by Jim Garrison.
This is what I got, not in your lifetime, Anthony Summers,
your book, that recent book by the secret Service agent who says that he
stashed the bullet. And then you know what's funny is I go down products
related to this item. You're Danville, Virginia. Can the war state come
up again? Along with Fletcher Proudy's book. So okay, just telling you
at least you got some some uh you know, I I don't know what
they call that when they add the products and suggest it. But you're you're
coming up in that algorithm. Maybe it's just because it's customized for me.
I mean, at the top of this thing, we got Kim Kennedy.
It's like that, more and more of internet. You know what's surprising about
this, though, is that none of Bill O'Reilly's Killing Everybody books come up
in this mix at all. They're faded out too. I think they faded
away. I think everybody figured out that he's uh, you know, full
of crap. But you're definitely not full of crap. Mike, how do
you want to put a capra on this one? Ty a bow around it?
Say put an ending on this one? Because I've been talking to you
for just over an hour, and I only wanted to keep you for an
hour. So what do you want people to take away from tonight's discussion,
Well, just what I've kind of said that this is I think this is
where the government and there me your friends, or this is the story they
put out started to put out in twenty three thirteen. I think it's what
they're going to stick with. So what you're saying is the change they made
around the fiftieth anniversary where they decided to say, look, okay, we're
not in lockstep with the Warren Commission like we used to be in nineteen sixty
four when we were releasing television shows alongside of the day the book dropped.
We're not doing that anymore, and we're not doing four night CBS specials telling
you that the Warren Commission got everything look correct. What did they do on
the sixtieth You know, well they did a lot of stuff on the sixtieth.
I mean, you and I were kind of busy, but ye Honestly,
every streaming platform and every network had something coming out, right, what
did the doctors see about? You know what was it? Some of the
cable networks wanted to feature the Oliver Stone movie. You had a special series
from Apple TV. You know, different stuff out there, but none of
it really getting to whether it's News Nation or Apple TV or Netflix or whoever,
none of them actually getting to new information. Really, I mean,
what did the doctor see? These are new unseen interviews, et cetera,
et cetera. But you and I might recognize that as exactly what they did
on a NOVA special on Channel thirteen, you know, well Channel thirteen in
New York, but on PBS right many years ago? What did they do?
The Nova special? Who Shot JFK? Which coincidentally is the same title
as Rob Reiner's Ridiculous podcast. But we're going full circle now. It's not
believe us, believe us, believe us. But look, since you don't
believe us, here's a crappy idea about what might have happened. Believe that.
And oh, by the way, we're dropping a bunch of documents.
But there's nothing to see here, and there was nothing to see there because
it all doesn't matter. And here's the Bobby movie in Parkland. While we're
at it, why not throw those things in and let Stephen King write a
time travel novel about it. Sure, what year was that done? By
the way, that was it's probably around twenty thirteen, also, right King?
Well, either way, it was about time travel and somebody wanting to
stop Oswald, because obviously Oswald was the guy to stop, because he's the
actual guilty man. Right See, once again, even in the fictional realm,
what do they do? Oswald obviously did it. Whether it's Quantum Leap,
or it's a new issue of the Twilight Zone, or it's Stephen King,
it doesn't matter. Even if we're going to do it from a fictional
standpoint, Lee Harvey, Oswald's still the man. Maybe he's part of a
Russian plot. Maybe he's part of a Cuban plot. Who knows, but
either way, guess what. It's a roundabout way of telling you that,
once again, the Warrant Commission might have not got it right because they didn't
have all the information, all the technology, and maybe the CIA lies to
us sometimes sometimes, but no matter what, we're not after the real information.
What actually happened? Because you don't need to solve this because after all,
our greatest the story and Nom Chomsky says, what, it doesn't even
matter, who cares? People get killed all the time something like that.
I'm paraphrasing. But that's where academia's attitude was, and now it's kind of
drifted into this thing that you're talking about tonight, right, Mike, Yeah,
that's where it's at and that's all there is to it. So once
again, are you gonna write any articles about this upcoming or are we just
talking about your work on the upcoming book here. I'm not gonna write an
article about it, Okay, I just figured out check because you never know.
I mean, it could be anything like that could come out at Wallstreet
window dot com, because you got lots of interesting articles that have popped up
there, not just stuff from other sites and things about Wall Street. Although
you have been talking about the markets a bit lately, and as a matter
of fact, I get emails from you that are telling me about different metals
everything from copper to silver and gold lately. Looks like Mike, I don't
know about that. Maybe we'll talk about it next time, but either way,
I appreciate you doing this with us tonight and taking the time to discuss
the media and the Kennedy assassination. Any other final thoughts before we're done here,
No, I bet rats up. There you go. So no matter
who you are, where you are, when you are, I want you
to remember that I am merely o'celly. All of you are indeed the effect.
Go over to Wall Street, Window dot com. I highly recommend the
works by Michael Swanson Revelation through Conversation, Wall Window, dott go Silver the
stock Market, wall Stream, Window, dot dot Perhaps you're invested deeply,
Perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started. Wall
Street, Window, don Com, doo dot com. Will Swanson, the
brilliant author of the War State, understood these trends professionally for many years,
and now he gives you the benefit of his knowledge. Wall Street, streamo
dot Com, go there, now, go there, now go there now,
dot Com Radio Network, go ahead, call about the JFA assassination.
Right, Well, what do you want to know Daddy Baker's wild claim Oswald
girlfriends he knew Ruby and Barry answer weapons? Really, I imagine I could
claim I have four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon. But okay,
Billy, and I'm trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come
on now, has a real effort on the Dafay assassination. Go to Amazon
dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results for
a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the
known evidence in the case to get at well a different perspective. Let's say
you can get Judith Barry Baker in her own words from the author himself,
signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at kias jfk at aol dot
com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic
claims Judith Vary Baker in her own words. Thank you for all the great
information revelation to conversation. This is James Corben at Quorter Report dot com and
you're listening to the O'Kelly affected o'celly dot com. The War State by Michael
Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in
the context of the times, and reveals never before published information about the Cuban
missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president
two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the Cold
War and the rise of the national security state. Before World War II,
the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that followed, it
became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade
Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island armed with
nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. Their
invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted to go
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a double well. More and more people putting down. We got diary for
mannes say it's getting around well work I'm lie norm now, I mean because
no one never died from smoking. We hed you're kidding me, You're kidding
me, Yeah, yeah, you're kidding me. Well, then it would
nur job. They had to find another way. Two dreck, that's the
past thing they could come up bewas it's a gay way drug and leads to
other substances. You're kidding me, Your kidding me, Yeah, you're kidding
me. Well, more round, more people putting down, But we got
badly for my decided chatting around. Well, what are the line coming now?
Might be because no one ever died from smoking, and we