WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:07.040 The Chili Effect is sponsored by Wallstreet Window dot Com and listeners like you now 2 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:16.039 and now in aden Jack. And just like that, it's the fourteenth day 3 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:19.920 of March twenty twenty four. What is that? One day away from what 4 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:22.760 they call the IDEs of March? Is that correct? I think so? 5 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:27.519 Anyway, here it is Thor's Day. And who do I have with me? 6 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:32.039 Mike Swanson, the guy behind Wallstreet Window dot com. Uh, and 7 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:35.119 he is more than happy to come on and talk to all of you people. 8 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:37.960 No matter how you're catching the show, you could be hearing it on 9 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:41.359 the live stream, which means that you know, I went to air about 10 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:45.240 fifteen minutes too late, as per usual, after eight pm Eastern time and 11 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:49.759 what we used to call America. But guess what Mike is on with me. 12 00:00:49.799 --> 00:00:52.719 He's the guy behind Wallstreet Window dot com, more than happy to talk 13 00:00:52.759 --> 00:00:56.280 to you. They are live on the stream or indeed, when we go 14 00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:00.600 to the podcast and you use your final slab of choice, your applicable application, 15 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:06.920 your podcatcherdsore to catch up with the podcast as it is released on all 16 00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:11.200 of the various platforms everywhere where. Podcasts are even an unofficial YouTube channel. 17 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:14.840 At this point, did I say that quietly? I think I did. 18 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:18.200 Anyway, Wallstreet Window dot com be in the no go over there. It's 19 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:22.480 not just about Wall Street. Also, he's the author of some very cool 20 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:26.680 books books. I highly recommend two of them. Indeed, right off the 21 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.079 bat, I recommend The War State, which you can see on my website 22 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:34.959 in the sidebar that read book cover with Ike on the front cover telling you 23 00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:38.719 what warning you about the military industrial complex, et cetera, et cetera. 24 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:42.680 And what does Mike lay out in that book? A big warning about the 25 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:49.040 military industrial complex? Maybe, but he takes very complex things and simplifies them 26 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:53.680 so that they are quite a bit more accessible to the average reader who doesn't 27 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.920 want to be bored to death by historians who use all sorts of pedantic language 28 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:02.400 and repetitive stuff to their landing on their points. Right. Anyway, Mike 29 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:07.599 gives you an understanding of what went on during the twentieth century, and of 30 00:02:07.640 --> 00:02:12.599 course the military industrial complex all the way up to the JFK assassination. Oh 31 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:15.680 right. Another book that I also recommend, Why the Vietnam War, the 32 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:21.240 first in a set of possibly three. Who knows as he's going along, 33 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:23.280 and I think he might be working on it this year. Maybe we'll see 34 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:27.240 it by the end of the year. Indeed, the second volume of the 35 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:30.199 book about that particular conflict, or should I say, the set of books 36 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:35.599 about that particular conflict, utilizing some things that, guess what, are not 37 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:40.520 pedestrian and seen in everyone else's work, and again in that really fascinating style 38 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:47.439 that makes the complex circumstance much more accessible to the average and merely interested reader. 39 00:02:49.199 --> 00:02:51.879 So those things. But he's written other books. You know of a 40 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:54.719 book on the history of Danuel Virginia, a forward to a book on the 41 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:59.080 Roman Empire. I think that's still out there, about an ebook form which 42 00:02:59.120 --> 00:03:02.360 was actually written by his but he wrote the forward on that financial books. 43 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:06.439 Bunch of stuff out there, but constantly. You can check in with Mike 44 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:12.319 at Wallstreet Window dot com and indeed in the show notes you'll find a social 45 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:15.520 media hookups where Mike is bothering to pay attention to him anymore. I think 46 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:21.479 not even looking at his x feed anymore. I think he's given up on 47 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:25.199 Twitter, but still on Facebook and in a few other places you can access 48 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:30.039 Mike, and best way really go to Wall Street Window dot com. Anyway, 49 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:32.400 Mike Now that I've given that kind of an odd loopty loop sort of 50 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:38.199 intro, we're gonna talk about something tonight, which again falls in the literary 51 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:43.639 category, definitely falls in your area of interest. And I find it interesting 52 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:49.240 when one author takes a look at what is being released via other authors, 53 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:53.719 right, not because of personal conflict or interpersonal relationships, but because it's interesting 54 00:03:53.719 --> 00:04:00.319 to see that someone who might be let's say, actively participating in the creation 55 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:06.479 of the literature, especially in the post modern historical literary area that was created 56 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:12.280 only maybe seventy five eighty years ago. Now with the rise and fall the 57 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:16.240 third write, you know that modern contemporary historical writing style, which has you 58 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:23.360 know, obviously is the whole reason why the jfk assassination literature exists. Anyway, 59 00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:28.600 somebody who's highly interested in that and effective and really fascinating writer like yourself 60 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:32.639 examining the literature. I always find this interesting, and that'll just be part 61 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:35.279 of what we discussed. But anyway, enough O of me. How you 62 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:39.879 doing tonight, Mike, I'm doing good. Well, yeah, yeah, 63 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:45.240 I'm working, starting to work on another book. And the reality is, 64 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:51.199 you know this the JFK Assassination, the topic you know, we both got 65 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:56.079 interested in it a long time ago, around the same time in the nineteen 66 00:04:56.160 --> 00:05:02.160 nineties, And in a recent show we talked about This podcast is Rob Ryder 67 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:09.040 Podcast, and a lot of it's rawing on Dick Russell's book The Man Who 68 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:14.600 Knew Too Much. And I kind of in my first period of interest in 69 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:20.480 the Assassination is when I was in high school and then community college, and 70 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:26.040 that book was one of the last ones that I had read at that time. 71 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:34.560 And he's a very good writer, and because of that, I was 72 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:39.879 influenced by that book for a while. Well, Dick Russell is not only 73 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:43.240 an author as far as the long form with the books, but also he 74 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:47.079 wrote for various publications before that, did some investigative journalism. I mean, 75 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:53.600 he's clearly a fascinating and skilled writer for certain And yeah, you and I 76 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:57.680 getting into it favorably. I would say late eighties, the last couple of 77 00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:00.800 years of the eighties probably had our ears pricked up with interest. Yeah, 78 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:03.279 the eighties, I meant, you know, the late eighties. Yeah, 79 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:12.079 but his book really focused on or suggested that hl Hunt and the right wing 80 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:20.759 played a role in the assassination and positive the theory that this General Charles Willoughby 81 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:27.560 could be the mastermind who was a right wing ringer. He was retired general 82 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:30.639 that served under Douglas MacArthur, but he had been retired over ten years at 83 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:35.720 the time assassination. But anyway, and now, you know, so that 84 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:43.800 this book kind of influenced me at the time. And then I went to 85 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:46.879 college and ended up with master's degree in history, and I dropped out of 86 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:51.360 a PhD program. But at one time, while I wasn't in college, 87 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:57.959 I had the notion of maybe, you know, back then this was really 88 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:01.879 a taboo topic, assassination, and especially in academia. I had a professor 89 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:08.000 tell me you couldn't have a career and write about the assassination, you know, 90 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:13.920 basically. But I had a notion back then that what I might do 91 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:19.319 is write about the right wing of the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties and the 92 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:24.040 people that Russell was in you know, talking about in his book. In 93 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:27.639 other words, now that would be a way to write about the assassination, 94 00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:31.279 to study these these these characters, I thoughts, and I actually when I 95 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:38.800 was there, I got a hold of my back then. I don't know 96 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:42.759 if they still use it but microfish you could because I had I had access 97 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:48.079 to the college library. You could look at microfish. Documents were on there 98 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:50.720 and you know, you put them in the machine and look at them. 99 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:56.079 Right. Point of reference. Yeah, good requests point of reference for the 100 00:07:56.160 --> 00:08:00.079 listener. Right. There was a time when you had either microfilm or microfiche. 101 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:05.360 Microfiche was more of a sheet sort of format, and microfilm could literally 102 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:11.079 be very long strips of literally film that went into a machine that you could 103 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:16.879 view and it had a backlight and a lot of newspaper research I was able 104 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:20.879 to do with this, like entire newspapers would be archived for the year on 105 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:26.399 like one spool of film, right, and you go through that with a 106 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:28.800 crank and everything else, and you'd have to request it from the librarian because 107 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:33.240 in most places you weren't allowed to handle the microfiche or microfilm on your own. 108 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:37.159 All of that, and there was a machine in the back or a 109 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:39.600 couple of machines in the back if you were in a big library, right, 110 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:43.519 And this was one of the things you could do. And certainly there 111 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:48.240 was documentation and various books in order to save space, you know, like 112 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:50.840 again, imagine the thing I talked about with the newspapers there. So let's 113 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:56.720 just say you have a whole year's worth of pick a newspaper anywhere, all 114 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:00.799 stacked up in one place, as opposed to maybe we could say two years, 115 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:05.120 three years worth of newspapers and put them into something that you can hold, 116 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:07.759 you know, with two hands, Yes, you know, like almost 117 00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:13.480 like two brick sizes. Let's say two of the average masonry bricks size wise 118 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:18.559 instead of a stack of newspapers. I don't know how many feet tall it 119 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:22.279 would be in any given place, right, So this was a way of 120 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.639 saving space, preserving documents, so on and so forth. And today that 121 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:31.679 kind of stuff doesn't exist now we have all sorts of digital preservation. It 122 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:35.159 does still exist out there somewhere, but it's not really in use anymore, 123 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:39.200 seemingly. I don't think there are public libraries with this stuff anymore, Mike, 124 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:43.600 Have you noticed any of that in the past few years. I really 125 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:48.279 have no idea if there is or not. I haven't been to a college 126 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:52.639 library trying to look stuff up like that, because it's all excess, you 127 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:56.159 know, well we're looking at so looking to find as accessible on the internet, 128 00:09:56.559 --> 00:10:01.240 or you'd have to go to the archives and d mostly. Yeah. 129 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:03.919 And the other thing is, even if you were to go to your local 130 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:07.240 library, first of all, try and find the place. I mean, 131 00:10:07.240 --> 00:10:11.360 there are still library systems that exist, but hardly anybody uses them due to 132 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:15.000 the fact that we're in a different technological age. And of course, the 133 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:18.120 books that you're talking about so far here, like Dick Russell also the co 134 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:24.039 author with Jesse Ventura, so really the document research, the introduction of documents 135 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.720 that Jesse winds up. You know, he's the headline author on a bunch 136 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:31.799 of these books, right, regarding the assassination, regarding the turmoil of the 137 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:37.639 nineteen sixties, regarding covert operations. It's Dick Russell who's his co author because 138 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.360 he's bringing in the actual documents and research, and then Jesse does a lot 139 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:45.879 of commentary about it, and he had a fairly successful run with his books 140 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:48.679 as well. This week alone, by the way, just weird sort of 141 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:52.759 thing I'm gonna mention is today indeed, I got a hold of a book 142 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:58.919 called Final Analysis, all right, which is co authored between David Mantick, 143 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:03.200 whose name you might have heard for if you've been into the assassination research community, 144 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:07.080 and authors, and he's authored various pieces and apparently a couple of books 145 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:13.360 now but used to be Dave Mantick was a contributor to various other collective works. 146 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:18.159 And guess who is co author is Jerome Corsi. I'm gonna leave that 147 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.840 commentary alone because I haven't read the book yet, and I am going to 148 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:24.720 read it, and I plan on interviewing doctor Mantick on the show about this 149 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.639 book. But that's an aside. Mike. You're talking about literature, and 150 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:33.159 you gave me a list which I put in the live chatroom at o'chelli dot 151 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:37.600 com and will also be included in the show. Notes, it would not 152 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:43.679 be from the realm of books that might contain the works of Jerome Corsi or 153 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:48.759 David Mantick though the list of stuff you gave me. So what is it 154 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:54.519 that Let's go back to your historical portion here you're talking about how it was 155 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:56.240 that you were introduced to these things, and you're looking through the microfilm and 156 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:01.240 microfiche at the libraries. This is early on where you actually had to go 157 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:05.519 out and go somewhere in order to go find new documents, new writings, 158 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:11.879 new pieces of you know, preserved documentation for various things. Let's go back 159 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:15.519 to that Mike and continue on. Well, I just wouldn't make a simple 160 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:20.519 point. I always had access to a major university library, and there are 161 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:26.879 all these you know, old magazines, old right wing publications. Everything you 162 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:28.480 could think of was in there, and I could look it up. And 163 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:33.919 so I'd have maybe a box full of if you know, stuff about the 164 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:39.360 right wing. I was requesting dissertations, master's theses, you know that other 165 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:43.320 people had written. You've got a whole box of stuff. Did you get 166 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:46.759 printouts of the micro did you get printouts of the microfilm and microfiche stuff? 167 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:52.399 Sometimes bring that home piles of that too. Yeah, So what I've got 168 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:56.879 is and by the way, by right wing stuff, you don't mean the 169 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:58.679 uh, you know, the really run of the mill sort of things that 170 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.080 people would see today, Like you know, you're whatever, what is his 171 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.759 name I'm talking about You're talking about John Birch. You're talking about like John 172 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:13.799 Birch Society, John Birch Society, just McCarthy, those people, uh people, 173 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:20.240 Uh, what's the villa James Hargus Publications, who's connected to General Walker? 174 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:26.519 H. L. Hunt stuff? And what in the microfish thing. 175 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:31.279 So what I did is in in Norfolk, Virginia, there's a Douglas MacArthur 176 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:39.840 Museum and library and I and they had the personal papers of this general Willoughby 177 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:43.399 a microfish. So I requested that and got it and looked at it and 178 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:48.480 uh, I've got a stack of his papers. Well, did you request 179 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:54.200 all of his papers or just I mean it was a microfish Okay, it 180 00:13:54.279 --> 00:14:00.320 was just a microfish copy of all his of his papers worth the stuff. 181 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:03.399 So you requested like printouts of all the micropiece that they had from his personal 182 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:09.799 papers at they mailed the act, they mailed the microfish. Wow, okay, 183 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:15.039 yay, okay. So I had the microfish and put that in the 184 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.000 machine and I could print out pages of it. So that's what I did. 185 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:20.919 Was that on loan or could you buy that? I mean it was 186 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:24.360 on loan? I mean maybe you could buy it. I don't, I 187 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:28.120 don't know, but it was on loan. Just curious, okay. I 188 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:30.799 want to see if somebody else could do this, if they you know, 189 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:33.600 if they could get it on loan, maybe they could request it. Uh 190 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:37.200 is happening I mean nowadays? And maybe even be online. I don't know. 191 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:43.159 But but to make a long story short, I'm just bringing this up 192 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.080 to say I had a notion that one day I would write a book about 193 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:52.960 the people I thought were involved in the assassination. And then it's time, 194 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:56.960 you know, by looking at honestly, by looking at the papers. When 195 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.679 I was done looking the papers, I came in conclusion WILLI had nothing to 196 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:07.519 do with because one of the things that was evident was he there was like 197 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:11.120 a letter from nineteen sixty four, I think it was to either H. 198 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.879 O. Hunt or Bunker Hunt, and it was clear he never even met 199 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:18.759 him, you know, he he hadn't he hadn't met them in person yet 200 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:26.000 using communication with him, but you know, never even met the people in 201 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:30.559 person. So and then this time went on, just became more skeptical of 202 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:35.279 that. Anyway, What you're saying is is that the presentations about Willoughby being 203 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:39.879 involved also have to do with him having direct contact with the Hunts. And 204 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:45.759 what you found through their correspondence is that it seemed as though he had not 205 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:50.240 actually interacted with them in person based on the letters and things he was writing 206 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:52.639 here. Yeah, I mean they had they had lots of letters back and 207 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:58.559 forth for years, but I don't think that they and they knew each other. 208 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:02.679 They may talked on the Federals, but it didn't seem like they had 209 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:10.600 ever met in person. But regardless of what's happening now with what I'm doing 210 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:15.200 now, as I've written those two books that you mentioned, the War State 211 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.600 and Why the Vietnam War, and my idea, I mean, the time 212 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:22.240 just goes by. It's been over ten years since I put out that War 213 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:26.639 State book, but I think it was twenty eleven. But my idea when 214 00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:30.720 I wrote that was I was going to start to write about the national security 215 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:37.360 state and that book would just be an introduction for my own self researching it, 216 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:42.759 but also more of a surface level, you know, intro for the 217 00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:48.840 reader. The next book, Why the Vietnam War would be more detailed and 218 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:57.200 like a case study of using Vietnam and the Kennedy decision to send advisors that 219 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:02.600 that's when it ends. It would be like a case study showing you how 220 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:07.359 the national security state works in some detail. And now do that it shows 221 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:14.519 you how the Joint Jesus Staff structured, how the Joint Staff's important. So 222 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:18.640 it's not just a book, you know, saying CIA or something, and 223 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:26.960 how different advisors around Kennedy were pushing him too to send you know, soldiers 224 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:33.400 to Vietnam in nineteen sixty one, he obviously he sent advisers instead, and 225 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:41.440 not in the book. But what I'm gonna do now is right in more 226 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:48.039 detail from nineteen sixty one, the end of that book, basically to Kennedy's 227 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:52.960 death. And I'm going to write about the people I think were involved. 228 00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:02.640 I'm not gonna I'm not gonna make a book saying X this person's the mastermind 229 00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:07.279 or something like that. But I'm gonna have a lot of the people I 230 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.200 think were involved in it are gonna figure throughout the book, and their name. 231 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:15.880 Some of them are names that people don't aren't familiar with, most people 232 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.720 aren't familiar with. Okay, So what you're saying is you've discovered that there's 233 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:23.920 a whole lot of people that previously had not really been named in the literature, 234 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:30.000 et cetera. Uh, that that you believe may have indeed had a 235 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:34.839 serious involvement here. Yeah, Like one of them is in one of John 236 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:41.519 Newman's books. That's the only place they're mentioned. Okay, But anyway, 237 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:45.599 Uh, but it's gonna be similar to the last book the way it's written, 238 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:51.240 and and you know about the foreign policy and and so forth. But 239 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:56.640 I've already written two. I've written three draft introductions over the last year, 240 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:00.319 and one of them is going to be the first chapter. One of them 241 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:06.079 I'm just going to throw in the trash. And the one that's an introduction 242 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:10.519 is what I'm working on now. And while I'm looking at these Kennedy books 243 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:15.759 that came out of the past couple of years. So in this introduction, 244 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:22.759 I'm just trying to figure out, well to write it. I'm trying to 245 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:29.920 figure out what the government is putting out about the assassination, because I think 246 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:37.680 the stance the like, where does the thing stand? Now? What? 247 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:42.319 What? What? So? On one hand, if you look, you 248 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:45.440 know, I don't want to go on too much about this. I want 249 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:49.000 to talk more about the government's putting out. But if you just look at 250 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:56.680 where the assassination community, I don't know what else what else to call it, 251 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:03.839 but where where it's at, you know, years ago, but fifteen 252 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:08.039 years ago whenever it was when that James Douglas book came out, the Jim 253 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:12.920 Douglas book that was a breakthrough book. You know, it had a big 254 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:18.039 impact, not just on the assassination community, but it was a breakthrough book 255 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:23.160 outside of it. Maybe not since Mark Lane's book or David Lifton's book, 256 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:27.799 did you know, I don't think did any other book have you know, 257 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:33.359 as big of an impact. You know, I mentioned when I was in 258 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:37.400 college, graduate school is a taboo stop topic, right, And then when 259 00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:45.759 the Jim Douglas book came out, I went back up to an event up 260 00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:52.240 there, and academics up there were talking about the Jim Douglas book that I 261 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:56.880 bumped it. You know, they're freely talking about the topic. So it 262 00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:06.200 was a big deal. Now in the idea that he posits the Pentagon, 263 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:10.880 the CIA killed Kennedy and because you know, he was for peace and against 264 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:17.480 their policies, or he was for ending the Cold War, were not intervening 265 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:18.720 in Vietnam and so forth. Right, Well, let me let me help 266 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:22.359 you out here a little bit, because look, the Douglas book, which 267 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:25.519 by the way, I had a little hand in getting the audiobook published, 268 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:27.440 and I'm just taking a look back, it looks to me like one of 269 00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:33.599 the publication dates for the audiobook was in twenty eleven in May, and that's 270 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.799 when the audiobook came out. Now, before that, it went through two 271 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:42.119 printings, one with Orbits and one with Simon and Schuster. What happens in 272 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:47.960 between those two printings is a bit of odd. Notice, because the book 273 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.440 came out and it was fairly successful and it was sort of a niche thing 274 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:55.599 within the assassination community. That it was well written. It was the first 275 00:21:55.640 --> 00:22:00.000 time that somebody had done one of these very smoothly written, kind of very 276 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:04.960 accessible books to give a big picture, a kind of viewpoint on the assassination, 277 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:08.200 right, not getting bogged down in minutia so much, but to give 278 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:11.960 a big picture like why did this happen? Literally, that's the subtitle, 279 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:17.799 why he died? Right, and why it matters? Okay, your book 280 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.680 the War State. According to Amazon, by the way, it's I'm not 281 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:25.920 sure if this is the audio release or the total release twenty thirteen, So 282 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:30.519 in that same time period where the Douglas book is getting traction, by the 283 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:37.079 way, for a very simple reason, Oliver Stone went on Bill Maher's TV 284 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:44.319 show A Real Time and handed this book to Bill Maher on TV and told 285 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:47.359 Bill Maher that this is one of the most amazing things. Ever, you're 286 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:49.400 gonna have to read this book. It'll change your mind. Because Bill Maher 287 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:56.680 famously is completely like against anything that speaks about, you know, any sort 288 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:02.039 of conspiracy, anything outside of official narratives. Bill mah will not tolerate that 289 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:04.400 in any way, shape or form. Right on his show, come on, 290 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:07.359 there's no conspiracy. Come on, there's nothing to see here, no 291 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:12.319 matter what the situation is. Oliver Stone hands him the copy of the Orbits 292 00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:17.720 book, which is a small Catholic publisher that Douglas had put the book out 293 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:22.400 to begin with. And the next thing you know, this book is on 294 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.559 fire because Oliver Stone thought it was important enough to hand to Bill Maher. 295 00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:32.279 That's really the weird story that leads to Simon and Schuster turning around and picking 296 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:36.519 it up, mass producing it, and now it's indeed one of the most 297 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:41.000 highly lauded books out there. Gives a big picture and makes it accessible, 298 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.039 much like you're writing. Makes the whole larger concept here, which is about, 299 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.440 like you said, his turn to peace. This is the thing that 300 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:55.240 gets him killed by this unspeakable element out there, and there's more to it 301 00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:57.920 than that. But he also spends a lot of time on Neguel by the 302 00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:03.880 way, just you know, just like Dick Russell does not as much obviously 303 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.960 because the whole book that Russell wrote, The Man who Knew Too Much, 304 00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:11.240 was about Miguel, right, but he spends some time on Neguel as well. 305 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:17.519 But anyway, this is a huge success story, did very well and 306 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:19.960 has become one of those go to books in the assas. But that's on 307 00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:26.720 the conspiracy side of things. That's for the conspiracy advocacy group of people that 308 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:33.400 are interested in the assassination. Right. But now you're talking about taking a 309 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:37.759 look at the way the government is representing stuff and things like that, and 310 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:41.039 I really want to hear what you have to say about it, because this 311 00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:44.759 is fascinating. What we've seen go on, especially in the past say, 312 00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:49.799 five six years, has been an immense amount of attention paid to document releases 313 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:56.680 and everything else because of the post aa r B situation, right the ar 314 00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:00.319 RB excuse me, Assassination Records Review Board. Because so that situation, the 315 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:04.119 document release that was supposed to happen in twenty seventeen, et cetera, et 316 00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:10.880 cetera. There's been a new set of narratives sort of released here by the 317 00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:17.200 powers that be and the media which backs them up in recent years. So 318 00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:21.440 all of that in a nutshell is very interesting to me. And your reaction 319 00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:25.200 to this is kind of different. You're deciding that you're going to go into 320 00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:27.799 this some more break it down. I like how the war state is by 321 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:32.680 the way, I like a primer for any reader. Get yourself ready to 322 00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:36.200 go into the rest of this, and now you dive into the particulars. 323 00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:38.720 Here's the Vietnam War, the conflict there, and now you're going to go 324 00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:45.119 into the spheres of influence, the geopolitical, the movers and shakers who might 325 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:48.480 be in the spook community, or might not be in the spook community, 326 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:52.400 might be part of the military, might be part of the rich elite class 327 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:57.440 that just get things done. Sometimes it's dirty business and sometimes it's just business 328 00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:03.480 as usual. Either way, you're stepping into that realm now, and you're 329 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:06.200 gonna give us a different look at some of these things. It sounds like 330 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:11.519 to me or am I wrong? Uh yeah, well some of it's gonna 331 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:17.119 be about that, But it's still gonna have I mean, it's it's I 332 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:21.599 gotta start writing it. We really get get it going. But well you 333 00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:25.200 did fifteen intros. What's going on with that? I mean, you don't 334 00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.359 feel satisfied or you don't think it covered everything? No, no, I 335 00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:33.759 had written to Well one is just a not just like three pages and stuff, 336 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:37.680 but one one. There was gonna be ideas for two separate books. 337 00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:44.640 Basically I'm just gonna make one the first chapter. But uh, the thing 338 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.000 is like from the government side, when the Oliver Stone movie came out, 339 00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:56.799 before the I mean, after the Warren Commission, Gerald Ford wrote a book, 340 00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:02.319 David Bellan wrote a book. And then when I started getting interested in 341 00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:06.599 this and you did, the internet was coming up and John McAdams had his 342 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:14.519 Usenet group. There's another guy, a couple other people online too. Well, 343 00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.880 there was a lot of them on the pro you know, conspiracy side, 344 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:23.000 conspiracy people, and there was the the what is a JFK was from 345 00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:27.200 JFK murder dot com. Uh, you know, the educational forum, which 346 00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:32.680 is a subdivision of something else, became dominated in the one section. A 347 00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:34.640 lot of stuff went on here, and there is an interesting story to be 348 00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:40.119 told, not only from the government reaction, but also from the point of 349 00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:44.200 view of what the media did with it. Well that that's that's maybe the 350 00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:48.319 media. Actually, maybe media should be a better word. I should be 351 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:52.400 using then what the government's putting now, so at when, at that, 352 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:55.240 at that, in that era, and then the Alverstone movie comes out. 353 00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:59.880 You know, he was savaged for doubting the Warren Commission. I mean for 354 00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:04.319 a year, was in magazines when magazines back then were big. You know, 355 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:07.960 Nick Dolf disappeared. Now, Gerald Positive wouldn't even have a book. 356 00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:12.920 Gerald Positor wouldn't even have a book contract if he wasn't there to respond to 357 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.359 all the you know, all the hoopla that was created by the JMK. 358 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:19.839 But the thing is like, and then the Positive book comes out, It 359 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:29.759 was all supporting the Warren Commission and attacking people who didn't believe in its version 360 00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:33.839 of events, right, and then and then as time goes on, it 361 00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:38.640 became it fell in even more disrepute to believe the Warren Commission, or it 362 00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:44.599 fell on more disrepute because you know, we get so much more information in 363 00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:51.480 these files about what was actually going on when Kennedy was president. And then 364 00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:56.960 about Oswald. I mean, Jefferson Morley's work shows that the CIA knew about 365 00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:02.680 Oswald. Newman showed that, right, and they had denied that they were 366 00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:06.279 even keeping up with them. Basically, well, what you have is from 367 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:11.200 okay, September nineteen sixty four, let's go back. You have the media 368 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:15.759 standing by ready to back up. Guess what, They had copies of the 369 00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:21.359 Warren Commission report before the public Adam. They were in the midst of television 370 00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:26.519 shows backing up the Warren Commission's conclusions before anybody had the Warren Commission Report in 371 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.839 their hands except Brian. So they're in the middle of doing that. And 372 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.160 that's not just CBS, which is the most famous one, but there was 373 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:40.440 literally one on each network broadcasting that day to back up the story of the 374 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:42.799 Warren Commission. Now, oh, and I got a quote like the introduction 375 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:47.079 when I'd finished this introduction thing, I'll send it to you. I would. 376 00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:49.279 I definitely want to see it. I got quotes from one of the 377 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:56.160 I think it's the CBS news producer of the sixties saying that he thought it 378 00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:00.200 was a conspiracy, but they put out these programs anyway. Yes, it 379 00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:02.960 didn't matter, you know. And that's the funny thing. There's a bunch 380 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.599 of people involved with the production of this stuff who were like, look, 381 00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:11.079 I was just following orders pretty much. But the thing is, though that 382 00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:14.920 Bugliosi book came out and I never read the thing. I think you said 383 00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:18.960 you read it. I did, I got it. It's just this guy. 384 00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:25.039 It's one of the biggest books I've ever held my hands, and it's 385 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.880 bigger than the Bible, you know, And it's just him and Raven for 386 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:33.559 on and on and on. Well, a million dollar contract this guy gets. 387 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:40.880 And one half of the book is him basically writing a true story but 388 00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:45.920 in a narrative form where he's literally creating lines and stuff between Lee and Marina 389 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.680 and stuff like that, right, telling you the story of the assassination. 390 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:53.559 That's one half of the book. Then the rest of it is him pretty 391 00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:59.559 much tearing into everybody who's ever posited a conspiracy theory and saying they're wrong. 392 00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:02.960 They got wrong, the Warrant Commission got it right. And what is this 393 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:08.240 thing? Two thousand pages? Okay literally plus a CD that goes along with 394 00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:12.000 it, with a whole bunch of footnotes and stuff. Right, your yours 395 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.119 came with a CD? I bet yeah, pretty sure it did. Anyway, 396 00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.920 this thing is like a simple one. The thing is, it's a 397 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.599 loan assassin book, Oh yeah, big, and it was a bust, 398 00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:27.440 you know. And he got on he had TV coverage, yep, but 399 00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:32.839 the book was a flop. No matter what they did, they had him 400 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:37.319 on. They had him on every TV and radio outlet possible. They put 401 00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:40.559 him out there, and Tom Hanks snapped it up, signed him up for 402 00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:45.440 another contract to do a Playton documentary about it, and everything. Oh right, 403 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:49.039 all that stuff was going on. And here's the amazing part. Within 404 00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:52.720 a short amount of time, this big, huge, I think it was 405 00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:56.640 a fifty dollars book, brand new. Right. I go to the bookstore. 406 00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:00.240 I know, Grandpa, you're going to bookstores back then, but they 407 00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:02.880 still existed. I assure you. You go to a bookstore, these things 408 00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:07.119 were on the rack. I bought all of them off of a one rack. 409 00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:08.920 Mike, I don't know if I ever told you this story. I 410 00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:14.079 bought all the discounted Bugliosi books off of a rack because I didn't want anybody 411 00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:17.279 else to accidentally buy them on discount, because all of a sudden, these 412 00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:22.680 fifty dollars books, which, by the way, even today the audiobook is 413 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:25.680 expensive as hell, because I mean, look, your War State book has 414 00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:30.839 an eight hour runtime. Imagine how long his stupid book is okay on series 415 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:34.359 all right? Anyway, I bought all of them off of the rack because 416 00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:37.440 they all ended up being like double extra discounted down to about four bucks apiece. 417 00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:43.839 So I spent like forty dollars okay, to buy all the Bougliosi books 418 00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:46.759 they had left at the bookstore and the mall. I took them outside. 419 00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:52.880 I ripped out the picture section, okay, and stuck that in a folder 420 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:57.160 and dumped the rest of them in the dumpster. That's literally I threw away 421 00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:00.359 my own money back then, just to make sure that nobody else would accidentally 422 00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:06.440 buy these pieces of toxic crap. That's how angry I was with the Buglio 423 00:33:06.440 --> 00:33:09.839 c PR push that was out there, and quite frankly, I mean you 424 00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:16.160 had people literally trying to go to Tom Hanks and Gary Getzman and these other 425 00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:22.920 people that were involved in Playton begging them please do not produce a massive documentary 426 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.319 series because he was going to do this with HBO, and it was going 427 00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:30.319 to be like a ten part series laying out his book that nobody wanted to 428 00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:34.400 read. Who the hell's going to watch this thing? Nobody wants to read? 429 00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:37.519 The book. They paid him millions of dollars each time they got him 430 00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:39.960 to sign a contract. Nobody could sit through it. And to this day, 431 00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:44.880 even though most of us, you know, in the assassination research community 432 00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:46.920 hate the book, I'll tell you what put ten of us in a room. 433 00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:52.000 If one of us actually read the whole thing, you're lucky. And 434 00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:55.319 I'm one of the few people I know that can claim that I read the 435 00:33:55.519 --> 00:34:00.200 entire thing. It took me a couple of months, to be honest with 436 00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:05.640 you, because I kept falling asleep reading it, Mike, So it took 437 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:07.920 me a few months to get through that book. And it was massive, 438 00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:13.280 massive, especially for the you know, just believe the Warrant commission. Oh 439 00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.320 and by the way, he did so well in his mock trial. That 440 00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:20.840 was the other portion of the book. When he's you know, ripping into 441 00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:24.159 every researcher, right, he's also telling you about how great he did during 442 00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:29.719 his mock trial in nineteen eighty six. So that was the other elements. 443 00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:32.719 Well, you own this thing. The thing about the book is I think 444 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:37.840 that was the last gasp of the lone assassin people. Ah okay, And 445 00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:45.360 since then, the media has shifted. Now they tried one shift that was 446 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:52.320 very short lived and it's just stupid. But it's epitomized by the movie Parkland, 447 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:58.400 right, which was an awful just I mean, as most movies are 448 00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:04.400 awful, so nothing unusual. But it came out in twenty thirteen. I 449 00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.079 think it was a it may it may have had Tom Hanks, may have 450 00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:12.519 had something to do it too, producing it or something. But well, 451 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:15.920 yeah, a bunch of stuff was released around the fiftieth anniversary, right, 452 00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:21.639 so that stuff turns into this, you know, massive let's push back again 453 00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:24.840 once again at the warrant commission. But you are correct to say that things 454 00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:29.639 have changed a bit now. It doesn't mean that the mainstream media has gone 455 00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:31.079 onto our side of the camp at all. No, no, no, 456 00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:36.679 I want to describe what they're doing. But anyway, this Parkland movie comes 457 00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:42.280 out and what they try to do in the movie, and the director of 458 00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:49.239 it says, this is not talk about whether it's a conspiracy or not, 459 00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:57.440 but just focus on how people suffered, you know, the witnesses suffered, 460 00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:01.000 and make a melodrama out of that, and that's supposed to be meaningful. 461 00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:06.760 And the thing about that's such a weird argument, but there is a Vietnam 462 00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:09.800 war book that came out and I've talked about on your show. I don't 463 00:36:09.800 --> 00:36:15.000 know it's bestseller, but it's a piece of crap, came out a couple 464 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:19.800 of years ago, a British author thing. But that's what he says in 465 00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:23.599 the book. He doesn't want to litigate the war or get in any of 466 00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:30.440 the academic controversy. Is just focused on the on the suffering. And actually, 467 00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:36.639 now I think about it, that what's that that documentary on PBS we 468 00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:43.079 did talk about endlessly endless documentary about Vietnam to sort of try to take that 469 00:36:43.159 --> 00:36:45.440 tack too. Yeah, well, here's the weird thing, right. They 470 00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:50.199 also did it with Bobby Kennedy's assassination if you remember the movie Bobby, Yeah, 471 00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:54.400 followed other characters around during those circumstances and showed the chaos of it. 472 00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:58.320 And you know, the one guy getting shot who had nothing to do with 473 00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:00.840 anything, he just happened to be there. Another one's having an affair with 474 00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:05.719 the girl who's you know, cutting hair and whatever. All this weird stuff 475 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:09.159 going on. And they did that to time it with the fiftieth anniversary. 476 00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:15.079 In addition to giving what the garbage to the conspiracy thought, you know, 477 00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:20.719 thought my mindset, if you will, when they released that whole documentary series 478 00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:22.519 that was like, well, Oswald might have been a Russian agent. I 479 00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:28.119 don't know if you remember that. But a former CIA guy goes and gets 480 00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:32.320 a long term contract to do this whole thing about Oswald might have been remember 481 00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:37.679 it. But either way, a whole bunch of disinformation seems to come out, 482 00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:40.559 you know, timed rather nicely for the added interest that's gonna come up 483 00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:45.400 on the fiftieth anniversary as well. Well, that's so, that's the real 484 00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:52.880 key thing is so this book I'm reading, this book now called a cruel 485 00:37:52.880 --> 00:38:00.639 and Shocking Act and has written by a former New York Times reporter who did 486 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:07.400 Pentagon and you know State Department reporting that, and it got huge publicity on 487 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:15.440 the on the fiftieth this and that there's the Larry Sabato book got huge publicity. 488 00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:20.760 And that the Larry Sabato book. He was a UVA government professor. 489 00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:24.960 He he didn't really take any hard stand in the book whether it was a 490 00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:30.159 conspiracy or not. It was a badly written book. Like look, it 491 00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:35.639 appeared as if a team of people wrote it and he supervised them, and 492 00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:39.280 it was designed to get him on television publicity, which by the way, 493 00:38:39.320 --> 00:38:44.199 it's been alleged that Bolosi's book was written the same way. But yeah, 494 00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:50.719 and Shocking Act. But anyway, that that that that Larry Sabatae book in 495 00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:54.840 this Cruel and not Shocking Act book. These are the two key books on 496 00:38:54.920 --> 00:39:00.920 the on the fiftieth that were touted in the media in this Cruel Shocking Act 497 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:04.239 book. I didn't read it at the time. I'm reading it now because 498 00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:09.000 I want to in this introduction get an idea of what's or tell people what's 499 00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:15.280 what the stances of the media and the government now and this book. I 500 00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:21.840 remember there was a segment on Face the Nation or one of those Sunday morning 501 00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:30.800 shows with Bob Woodward on it and Bill Sefer was an old reporter that had 502 00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:36.880 covered the Kennedy case, and they were saying that the book was shocking. 503 00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:42.119 I mean, I remember seeing this. You can find it on YouTube type 504 00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:46.000 Philip Shennon and it'll come up on YouTube somewhere. But they were saying it 505 00:39:46.039 --> 00:39:52.000 was shocking revelations and they no longer believe the Warren Commission. You know, 506 00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:55.920 on national television on the fifteenth anniversary, we no longer believe the Warren Commission, 507 00:39:55.960 --> 00:40:00.440 and Bob Woodward was saying this, you know, and they didn't say 508 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:07.599 what they believed. And there was a lady on there saying, it's just 509 00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:13.800 you know, shocking what they suppressed, the information they suppressed, and it 510 00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:17.760 had the national security state would do this. They choose that phrase national security 511 00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:24.639 state. And so now I'm reading the book, and first I'm on the 512 00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:30.599 guy to say it's very well written. It's a good read as far as 513 00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:35.679 you know, it's really good read. It's one of the best written books 514 00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:43.440 as far as ease of reading goes about the assassination. But it's complete propaganda. 515 00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:47.760 You know, I'm surprised you don't mention the book by somebody who actually 516 00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:52.719 has the same last name as you, published around the same time The President 517 00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:58.360 has been shot, right, which was published in September twenty thirteen. Well, 518 00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:04.840 I just remember, I think that book was just trying to make money 519 00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:07.079 off of it, you know, of course, James Swanson, by the 520 00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:12.679 way, it's just trash, no relation to you. It's not an important 521 00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:15.039 book. It's just trash, but no relation to you. Like Bill O'Reilly 522 00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:19.760 books, they're just trash but no relation to you, right, Okay, 523 00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:22.280 just check and just check. Yeah, when was Bill O'Reilly's book released? 524 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.719 I think his was actually earlier than twenty thirteen. Yeah, it was earlier 525 00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:30.719 in twenty thirteen. But either way, we're talking about stuff that either pretends 526 00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:36.719 to sensationalize and give you a new view on things and then doesn't, or 527 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:38.679 just comes out and pretty much says, well, you know, maybe the 528 00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:43.199 Warren Commission got a couple of things wrong, but overall, you know, 529 00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:45.960 like like Bellen's book in the what was it the nineteen sixties or seventies, 530 00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:49.960 he comes out of a book that says history will prove us right. I 531 00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:52.079 think it was called right, And Bellen was, you know, part of 532 00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:57.519 the Warren Commission. Yeah. So but here we go. This is mostly 533 00:41:57.559 --> 00:42:01.360 what these books are, and all of it meant to flank and support the 534 00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:07.679 official conclusion. Right, Well, so that's not what this book's doing. 535 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:15.840 So it's saying the Warren it's he interviews the staffers such as David Bellin right, 536 00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:22.400 he's they're the main source for this cruel and acting, cruel and shocking 537 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:29.800 act book, and he really lionizes them, you know, makes them sound 538 00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:32.559 like they try to do the best job they could, but the FBI didn't 539 00:42:32.599 --> 00:42:36.679 give them all the information, the CIA didn't give them all the information, 540 00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:45.280 and what was being possibly covered up he doesn't say definitively, but he puts 541 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:52.599 out the idea that it was a conspiracy, even possibly Ruby was involved in 542 00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:58.480 the conspiracy. But it was a Castro plot. Oh okay, well that's 543 00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:00.679 the other you know populars. Yeah, but here's the thing, like the 544 00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:07.880 Ruby thing. As evidence that Ruby was tied of Castro, he says Ruby 545 00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:12.719 took trips to Castro, trips to Cuba, like five trips to Cuba before 546 00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:15.079 the assassination. Most of them are in the nineteen fifties. Well, he 547 00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:19.039 did take trips to Cuba. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he took five 548 00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:24.239 trips, but he says he only told the Warran commissioned investigators about one of 549 00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:29.719 them, and because he didn't talk about the other four, he could have 550 00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:31.480 been involved in a Cuba plot. Well, what a shock. He doesn't 551 00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:35.639 want to tell the government people that he was down there doing some gun running 552 00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:37.480 outside of what they could absolutely prove. I mean, you know, when 553 00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:40.000 I'm talking to a cop, I'm gonna go listen. I wasn't involved with 554 00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:45.400 the murder. I was selling cocaine over here, you know what I mean, 555 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:46.800 you don't do that. So he's not going to turn around and be 556 00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:49.519 like, yeah, that's right on this date, in this date, I 557 00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:52.239 was down there gun running and on this other come on, you know, 558 00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:59.079 let's know. Yeah. So, and then with Oswald, he's citing this 559 00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:06.960 story by June cob and then some other lady that lived in Mexico who who 560 00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:12.440 was I think a Mexican national, who said that they saw Oswald at a 561 00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:17.079 party with people from the Cuban government. Right, So, and that's the 562 00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:24.519 only source is these two statements in the government that our government investigated him and 563 00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:28.719 didn't believe them. Well, and then you have the visits to the visit 564 00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:34.800 of evidence, Yeah, the visit to Silviodio's apartment right where you know, 565 00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:39.360 supposedly he's in the company of these other you know, these other anti castro 566 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:45.639 Cuban guys who want her father's assistants because he was an active, you know 567 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:49.599 guy in the Cuban community, and et cetera, et cetera. There's that 568 00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:53.400 whole nexus of weirdness. But trying to put Oswald in the vicinity of Cuban's 569 00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:57.760 not too hard. He's out there handing out fair play for Cuba Committee stuff, 570 00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:01.239 you know, and ends up in that fight with Berengear and clearly yeah, 571 00:45:01.320 --> 00:45:07.039 but Castro Cubans, well no, But my point is that any Cubans 572 00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:09.159 he could have been around for one reason or another, right, because he's 573 00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:15.639 doing pro Castro stuff out there clashing with anti Castro Cubans, right, So, 574 00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:17.960 I mean he's got a wide variety of people that he could interact with 575 00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:23.239 that have nothing to do with an assassination plot. Necessarily, I'm not discounting 576 00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:28.000 the idea that you know, Cubans could be involved. Well, are you 577 00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:31.440 like give to give you a flavor of what he's saying. Sure, he 578 00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:37.960 says that, and I means a lot of stuff's true. Okay. When 579 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:46.280 the there's a John Whitten who is a officer who, after the assassination was 580 00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:53.480 charged by Richard Helms of take taking charge of an internal investigation on the part 581 00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:59.840 of the CIA in a assassination, that's true. And then James A. 582 00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:05.639 Ingleton push gets this guy pushed aside, and he takes it, takes it 583 00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:13.480 over. Now, what Shennon says is that when Angleton took it over. 584 00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:19.960 Angleton was convinced that the Soviet Union had something to do with it, so 585 00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:28.639 he prevented the SA people from investigating a Castro angle okay, and therefore the 586 00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:35.880 if there is a Castro conspiracy, it didn't it didn't get successfully discovered because 587 00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:38.760 of Angleton. Well, just like the games that are played by the media 588 00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:44.239 where they put out, you know, clearly ridiculous stuff like the whole hey 589 00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:49.360 maybe Oswald's a Russian agent nonsense right in ten parts on the History Channel. 590 00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:54.320 Sometimes that stuff is released to do what to purposely give people another direction to 591 00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:59.480 go in that has nothing to do with where the actual evidence goes. Right. 592 00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:04.280 This is a typical tactic, I mean clearly in the intelligence communities, 593 00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:07.000 but also in media circles. Look look at this, look at this stuff, 594 00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:10.039 just like when they were doing the headlines when these documents were dropping, 595 00:47:10.119 --> 00:47:15.440 right, Mike. So yeah, So there there was a CIA guy named 596 00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:23.639 Brian Lttel before the fiftieth anniversary. He and his job supposedly was the guy 597 00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:31.280 in the CIA tasked with monitoring Castro and you know, predicting Castro and stuff. 598 00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:36.760 And he put out a book about like a history book of Castro, 599 00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:43.599 and then he said in the book he said Castro probably did the assassination and 600 00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:50.159 he was a c guy, right. And then the CIA itself put out 601 00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:54.119 a history of John mccoone, the director, and said that I'm using a 602 00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:58.679 quote here, but non cover up, that he was involved in a benin 603 00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:05.800 cover up of CIA A CAA's connections to the Cubans, that some of the 604 00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:09.440 Dicastro Cubans that were around Oswald, and that's what they were covering up because 605 00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:14.159 they didn't want it to embarrass them, right, So, by and benign 606 00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:16.920 cover up, what they usually mean when they use that phrase is that it's 607 00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:21.840 not that they're the guilty party, right, they're covering they're doing a Cya 608 00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:24.079 move here, you know, right right. So, But but what I'm 609 00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:30.239 trying to say is, up until really the fiftieth or up until the Bugliosi 610 00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:34.800 book, okay, which was two thousand and seven. Up until then, 611 00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:39.320 the government, the mainstream media was always one hundred percent Ward commissions. Correct. 612 00:48:39.559 --> 00:48:45.280 If you doubt it, you're crazy. After two thousand and seven they 613 00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:52.480 shift to saying, give the Ward commission was wrong. They they were honest, 614 00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:55.719 they just didn't get all the information, and it may have been a 615 00:48:55.719 --> 00:49:02.679 Castro plot, and that's that's where we're at. Or it may have been 616 00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:07.599 a Russian plot. You know. The one of the former CI directors, 617 00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:12.679 James Wooseley. Wooseley, I think it is Woolsey, Yeah, Woozy. 618 00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:15.519 He put out a book, say in the Soviet Union and the KGB, 619 00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:20.920 it recruited Oswald at Mexico City, right, And we even had the television 620 00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:24.239 special right about here's the KGG files on it. And indeed the KGB did 621 00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:30.920 an investigation of the assassination and came to different conclusions than what the Warrant Commission 622 00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:36.239 did. You know, intelligence agencies investigating the assassination of a foreign leader not 623 00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:40.360 unusual by the way, but all this stuff going on, they shifted to 624 00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:44.559 now giving you junk. You know what I mean. You want to believe 625 00:49:44.559 --> 00:49:46.760 a conspiracy, Fine, here's your conspiracy. We're gonna give you the crappiest 626 00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:51.159 thing possible for you to follow up on. I mean, and the weird 627 00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:54.480 nexus even comes up in what you're saying right here, you're talking about Castro, 628 00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:59.679 right, his direct involvement. Even Oliver Stone went and interviewed Castro. 629 00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:01.519 I don't have you ever seen that You ever seen the interview that Stone did 630 00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:07.039 with Castro, and he outright asked him, you know, look, did 631 00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:10.519 you have anything to do with the assassination? Now, of course Castro, 632 00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:15.400 even if he did, wouldn't say that he did. But that's irrelevant anyway, 633 00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:20.280 because Castro makes an interesting point during that interview where he's like, look, 634 00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:23.960 how ridiculous and foolish would it be for me to participate in that sort 635 00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:29.239 of thing. I was already having enough problems. This is not something that 636 00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:31.079 I would be at the head of. I mean, just logically speaking. 637 00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:37.360 But either way, people have convoluted this idea that Castro's involved, and then 638 00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:44.559 they have Yeah, but they got them all for the United States to try 639 00:50:44.559 --> 00:50:50.639 to assassinate Putin. Yeah, what would it accomplish, well, right, 640 00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:55.039 to assassinate the leader of China? What would it accomplish? Nothing? Well, 641 00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:59.159 not going to change anything. Yeah, Number one, you wouldn't do 642 00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:02.079 it yourself, okay, because you'd probably send somebody else to do it in 643 00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:06.159 case they get caught. It's got nothing to do with you. That would 644 00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:08.079 be the first thing you do with a powerful nation with you know, say 645 00:51:08.159 --> 00:51:10.920 resources, to do that sort of thing. And oh, by the way, 646 00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:15.280 they put out an assassination guide the US did, explaining exactly how they 647 00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:21.199 would conduct these sorts of things. But here we go, right, they 648 00:51:21.239 --> 00:51:23.039 give you a bunch of garbage, Just like on the media when they were 649 00:51:23.079 --> 00:51:27.400 releasing these documents. Bit by bit, you see a headline right after the 650 00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:30.800 commercial there might have been shots from the front, right, and they go, 651 00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:34.119 oh, and people tune in and go they want to see it, 652 00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:36.880 this and that, and who's coming up to discuss it? Jero Posner, 653 00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:39.480 of course, you know. And they bring it out and what is it? 654 00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:45.360 A document where an FBI agent took a report from somebody who says they 655 00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:49.880 believe the shots came from the front. Who was the source. We don't 656 00:51:49.880 --> 00:51:52.159 even know who the source was. We don't know what their vantage point was, 657 00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:55.719 We don't know. It's just somebody that was a source for the FBI 658 00:51:55.920 --> 00:52:04.400 said that they believed there were shots from the front and that this book. 659 00:52:04.519 --> 00:52:09.199 Yeah, so I've read half of it, okay, And they talk about 660 00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:15.360 the single bullet theory and James Tag hasn't he mentioned this whole book, No 661 00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:21.920 mention of James Tag, Just like the whole reason why they had to create 662 00:52:22.280 --> 00:52:27.159 the single bullet scenario was because James Tag was struck. I mean literally, 663 00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:30.079 I mean there's I mean, that's about the most plain way to explain it. 664 00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:35.159 How do you get around explaining Arlen Spector creating this theory which he was 665 00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:37.599 calling toward the end of his life, the single bullet fact. Now, 666 00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:40.800 I don't know if you remember that it's the single bullet fact. It's absolute 667 00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:45.199 fact that this is what happened. Anyway, he has to create this why 668 00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:49.480 because now they have a shot which lands way down the street, ends up 669 00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:52.519 getting Tag struck with you know, most likely pieces of curbstone or something that 670 00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:55.840 jumped up and cut his face a little bit, not a big cut. 671 00:52:57.440 --> 00:53:00.760 But the whole reason why they had to figure out how to make two bullets 672 00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:05.360 work instead of three is because one of them is clearly way the hell away 673 00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:07.519 from the car. I mean, am I right or wrong? Mike? 674 00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:15.639 Mike correct? What he he just what he puts in this book is that 675 00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:22.239 they he says, they looked at the Suppruiter film and tried to figure out 676 00:53:22.519 --> 00:53:29.159 where the shots were you know, made in the film, okay, and 677 00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:36.719 that the timing there wasn't enough, you know, they they they determined that 678 00:53:36.760 --> 00:53:44.039 there are two there wasn't enough time for three shots to hint both people, 679 00:53:44.599 --> 00:53:49.800 so therefore they came up a single bullet theory. But I don't know why 680 00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:52.639 they don't mention tag at all. I mean, it's not in the book 681 00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:53.760 at all, because that has nothing to do with it. If you read 682 00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:58.360 the executive sessions, which have now been made public, and long before this 683 00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:01.639 guy had sat there like this, you would see the discussion where part of 684 00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:06.559 the problem is not the amount of time necessarily, but the fact is that 685 00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:09.440 he's hidden behind a sign. And then the films from the other side of 686 00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:15.360 the street do not give you a clear idea of exactly when the strikes happened. 687 00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:16.760 Say, you know, you might be able to see the headshot on 688 00:54:16.840 --> 00:54:21.400 Kennedy, but you can't tell when Connolly was struck, say from the nixt 689 00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:23.679 film or the much more film, all right, which is part of the 690 00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:30.000 problem. How do you get Kennedy and Connolly both wounded in this short amount 691 00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:34.079 of time with three bullets and now you have to pull one out of the 692 00:54:34.119 --> 00:54:37.800 equation because of take and this guy doesn't even mention that part. That's that's 693 00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:40.719 hilarious, Okay. I mean, you know, talk about cherry picking your 694 00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:45.079 evidence to fit your conclusion. Anyway, Mike, I know I've run you 695 00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:52.599 around and he didn't mention miss Strange well, and he gave me a couple 696 00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:55.800 other books here in this in this list, but I mean there are tons 697 00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:59.280 of them. I mean I mentioned that one by Swanson because I just think 698 00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:01.480 it's funny that he's got the same last name as you. But oh, 699 00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:07.320 the other book, I just say, real quick, the Epstein book. 700 00:55:07.360 --> 00:55:10.719 I did actually read this when it came out, The Assassination Diary it so 701 00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:15.519 this came out in twenty thirteen two, and really, I would you know, 702 00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:21.480 I would say Epstein was doing all this stuff before Shedden did. Epstein 703 00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:25.079 was really the first person to take this track of saying the Warren Commission got 704 00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:32.719 things wrong, didn't get the truth. But it was a well in Epstein's 705 00:55:32.719 --> 00:55:37.480 case, he said it was a Soviet pot. Well, like I said, 706 00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:43.079 it's possibly a Soviet pot right, So it's always either you know, 707 00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:45.800 the Russians or the Cubans, and here's your you know, talk about a 708 00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:52.239 red herring, right literally. But Epstein's got an interesting background to begin with 709 00:55:52.320 --> 00:55:55.679 because he's one of the earliest writers here on the assassination and at one time 710 00:55:55.800 --> 00:56:00.360 was seen as what one of the primary Warren Commission critics, right right, 711 00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:04.679 So you know, going back to he wrote what Legend and a few other 712 00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:08.400 I'll get the titles. In Quest is the first book he wrote in Quest, 713 00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:14.360 and it's a criticism of Lorren Commission, and it's a devastating criticism, 714 00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:16.840 indeed it is. But then what does he come back around to, Well, 715 00:56:17.119 --> 00:56:22.800 he got to talking to James Angleton and his assistance and he wrote Legend, 716 00:56:24.440 --> 00:56:30.119 right, which is focuses on Lee, Harvey Oswald and all that stuff. 717 00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:31.679 And you're right, yeah, in Quest was the first one. And 718 00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:35.440 what was the publication here? I got to see that. I'm going to 719 00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:37.960 check that out while you're talking here for a second. But what is interesting 720 00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:43.480 about this? You know, thirty forty years later after yeah, it's like 721 00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:47.159 forty years after his first books come out, he puts out this other one. 722 00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:52.840 Go ahead, Well, just this Assassination Diary came out twenty thirteen, 723 00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:55.920 the same year as the Shedding book I've been talking about, but it's shorter 724 00:56:57.519 --> 00:57:01.800 and you get the same basic argument, the more Commission's wrong. But you 725 00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:08.800 know there's a foreign plot, right. And the thing is that you could 726 00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:14.159 find a single volume from Epstein which they bundled him together at one point and 727 00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:19.679 put together in Quest, counterplot, and legend into one book. But they 728 00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:24.719 were initially issued in the nineteen sixties. So I just want to make that 729 00:57:24.760 --> 00:57:29.760 point there. But then this new one in twenty thirteen, again, fiftieth 730 00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:34.480 anniversary. Time to cash in once again? Right? Was Bugliosi dead yet? 731 00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:36.880 I don't know if he was dead by twenty thirteen. I think he 732 00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:39.400 was still around. Maybe I got to check that. But he died, 733 00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:45.400 you know, before the sixtieth I know that for sure. But again, 734 00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:50.360 big giant flop that book, and somehow he was very, very proud of 735 00:57:50.360 --> 00:57:53.280 it, and of course it was the logical thing to do after he made 736 00:57:53.320 --> 00:57:58.400 such a great showing in that nineteen eighty six you know, mock trial and 737 00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:00.440 all. I mean, have you ever watched that whole thing? By the 738 00:58:00.440 --> 00:58:05.440 way, I just seen clips of it. Okay, if you ever want 739 00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:07.719 to see the whole thing, I'm sure I have an extra copy of it 740 00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:13.639 on DVD. I'll give it to you. It's it's something to watch. 741 00:58:13.800 --> 00:58:17.320 I mean, it's it's interesting. There's real witnesses. Mind you, real 742 00:58:17.320 --> 00:58:23.159 witnesses are retired judge and literally citizens of Dallas. Uh, you know, 743 00:58:23.360 --> 00:58:28.400 brought together for this mock trial that they said was occurring in Dallas but actually 744 00:58:29.039 --> 00:58:32.760 occurred in England. Right. They flew everybody over there and pretended like they 745 00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:37.360 were still in a Dallas courtroom, just saying and and you know that should 746 00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:44.079 tell you something from the beginning where this thing started. But anyway, putting 747 00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:47.960 all these things together and taking a look at this, you know, this 748 00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:53.039 new version of Okay, I'll criticize the Warrant Commission, but at the same 749 00:58:53.079 --> 00:58:58.039 time, I'm not actually interested in the truth because why not pin the tail 750 00:58:58.119 --> 00:59:01.559 on the COMI one way or another? You know what about that? I 751 00:59:01.559 --> 00:59:05.320 mean, what what do you see all? I mean, I think it's 752 00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:12.239 propaganda, But I suspect this is gonna be the story for that they're gonna 753 00:59:12.280 --> 00:59:15.000 keep stick to, you know, for the rest of our lives. So 754 00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:19.480 you think for the next couple of decades, they're definitely gonna stick to this 755 00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:22.199 and just hope that interest dies out. Yeah, Like, you have an 756 00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:25.039 unsolvable crime, but if you were to solve it, it must be a 757 00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:29.280 communist plot of some type or another, and that's where they're going with this 758 00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:31.599 altogether. You think, yeah, yeah, And and this Sheddon book, 759 00:59:31.599 --> 00:59:36.480 they're gonna they'll say, this is the best book to read about the Warren 760 00:59:36.519 --> 00:59:40.119 Commission. M yeah, this is gonna be what people want in the Washington 761 00:59:40.199 --> 00:59:45.840 d C. The establishment there, that this is what they're gonna read him. 762 00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:50.480 You know, wow, you know. And also you have this book, 763 00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:52.880 what was it called My Search Something to Day? Oh? Yeah, 764 00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:58.159 that's that's the diary. The sub the subtitle was My Search for Answers to 765 00:59:58.159 --> 01:00:01.400 the Mystery of the Century, and that was released in September of twenty thirteen. 766 01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:07.519 You know, coincidentally, I think that was released literally exactly fifty years 767 01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:10.159 from the time the Warren Commission was released. I think you're right. I 768 01:00:10.159 --> 01:00:16.920 think they literally released it on that date. But you know what's funny is 769 01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:21.519 I go to an Amazon page. I'm kidding, I can't believe I'm saying 770 01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:22.880 this, but I go to an Amazon page to go look at that book 771 01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:25.719 real fast, just to make sure I got my fact straight. And do 772 01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:30.360 you know what the suggested books are underneath that? But you know, you 773 01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:35.360 come up under there. Really, that's good. The war State comes up 774 01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:39.519 under there, and let's see products related to this item, similar items that 775 01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:45.679 can be delivered to you quickly on the trail of the assassinations by Jim Garrison. 776 01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:47.679 This is what I got, not in your lifetime, Anthony Summers, 777 01:00:49.199 --> 01:00:52.480 your book, that recent book by the secret Service agent who says that he 778 01:00:52.599 --> 01:00:57.079 stashed the bullet. And then you know what's funny is I go down products 779 01:00:57.119 --> 01:01:00.000 related to this item. You're Danville, Virginia. Can the war state come 780 01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:05.800 up again? Along with Fletcher Proudy's book. So okay, just telling you 781 01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:08.599 at least you got some some uh you know, I I don't know what 782 01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:13.679 they call that when they add the products and suggest it. But you're you're 783 01:01:13.719 --> 01:01:20.000 coming up in that algorithm. Maybe it's just because it's customized for me. 784 01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:22.599 I mean, at the top of this thing, we got Kim Kennedy. 785 01:01:22.519 --> 01:01:25.320 It's like that, more and more of internet. You know what's surprising about 786 01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:30.000 this, though, is that none of Bill O'Reilly's Killing Everybody books come up 787 01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:34.039 in this mix at all. They're faded out too. I think they faded 788 01:01:34.079 --> 01:01:36.920 away. I think everybody figured out that he's uh, you know, full 789 01:01:36.960 --> 01:01:40.079 of crap. But you're definitely not full of crap. Mike, how do 790 01:01:40.119 --> 01:01:43.800 you want to put a capra on this one? Ty a bow around it? 791 01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:46.039 Say put an ending on this one? Because I've been talking to you 792 01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:49.679 for just over an hour, and I only wanted to keep you for an 793 01:01:49.679 --> 01:01:52.599 hour. So what do you want people to take away from tonight's discussion, 794 01:01:53.320 --> 01:01:58.360 Well, just what I've kind of said that this is I think this is 795 01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:04.360 where the government and there me your friends, or this is the story they 796 01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:07.199 put out started to put out in twenty three thirteen. I think it's what 797 01:02:07.239 --> 01:02:09.920 they're going to stick with. So what you're saying is the change they made 798 01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:15.239 around the fiftieth anniversary where they decided to say, look, okay, we're 799 01:02:15.239 --> 01:02:20.280 not in lockstep with the Warren Commission like we used to be in nineteen sixty 800 01:02:20.320 --> 01:02:23.320 four when we were releasing television shows alongside of the day the book dropped. 801 01:02:24.199 --> 01:02:29.199 We're not doing that anymore, and we're not doing four night CBS specials telling 802 01:02:29.239 --> 01:02:30.880 you that the Warren Commission got everything look correct. What did they do on 803 01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:35.559 the sixtieth You know, well they did a lot of stuff on the sixtieth. 804 01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:37.679 I mean, you and I were kind of busy, but ye Honestly, 805 01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:43.159 every streaming platform and every network had something coming out, right, what 806 01:02:43.199 --> 01:02:45.960 did the doctors see about? You know what was it? Some of the 807 01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:52.000 cable networks wanted to feature the Oliver Stone movie. You had a special series 808 01:02:52.039 --> 01:02:55.840 from Apple TV. You know, different stuff out there, but none of 809 01:02:55.840 --> 01:03:00.679 it really getting to whether it's News Nation or Apple TV or Netflix or whoever, 810 01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:07.320 none of them actually getting to new information. Really, I mean, 811 01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:09.559 what did the doctor see? These are new unseen interviews, et cetera, 812 01:03:09.559 --> 01:03:14.519 et cetera. But you and I might recognize that as exactly what they did 813 01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:17.960 on a NOVA special on Channel thirteen, you know, well Channel thirteen in 814 01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:22.440 New York, but on PBS right many years ago? What did they do? 815 01:03:22.519 --> 01:03:27.440 The Nova special? Who Shot JFK? Which coincidentally is the same title 816 01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:32.199 as Rob Reiner's Ridiculous podcast. But we're going full circle now. It's not 817 01:03:32.559 --> 01:03:36.599 believe us, believe us, believe us. But look, since you don't 818 01:03:36.639 --> 01:03:40.039 believe us, here's a crappy idea about what might have happened. Believe that. 819 01:03:40.599 --> 01:03:43.679 And oh, by the way, we're dropping a bunch of documents. 820 01:03:43.719 --> 01:03:46.559 But there's nothing to see here, and there was nothing to see there because 821 01:03:46.599 --> 01:03:50.880 it all doesn't matter. And here's the Bobby movie in Parkland. While we're 822 01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:53.519 at it, why not throw those things in and let Stephen King write a 823 01:03:53.559 --> 01:03:59.400 time travel novel about it. Sure, what year was that done? By 824 01:03:59.440 --> 01:04:01.679 the way, that was it's probably around twenty thirteen, also, right King? 825 01:04:02.840 --> 01:04:05.920 Well, either way, it was about time travel and somebody wanting to 826 01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:12.760 stop Oswald, because obviously Oswald was the guy to stop, because he's the 827 01:04:12.800 --> 01:04:15.320 actual guilty man. Right See, once again, even in the fictional realm, 828 01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:19.960 what do they do? Oswald obviously did it. Whether it's Quantum Leap, 829 01:04:20.079 --> 01:04:24.559 or it's a new issue of the Twilight Zone, or it's Stephen King, 830 01:04:24.599 --> 01:04:26.880 it doesn't matter. Even if we're going to do it from a fictional 831 01:04:26.920 --> 01:04:30.880 standpoint, Lee Harvey, Oswald's still the man. Maybe he's part of a 832 01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:33.320 Russian plot. Maybe he's part of a Cuban plot. Who knows, but 833 01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:36.840 either way, guess what. It's a roundabout way of telling you that, 834 01:04:36.880 --> 01:04:41.280 once again, the Warrant Commission might have not got it right because they didn't 835 01:04:41.280 --> 01:04:44.280 have all the information, all the technology, and maybe the CIA lies to 836 01:04:44.360 --> 01:04:50.199 us sometimes sometimes, but no matter what, we're not after the real information. 837 01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:55.400 What actually happened? Because you don't need to solve this because after all, 838 01:04:55.840 --> 01:05:00.000 our greatest the story and Nom Chomsky says, what, it doesn't even 839 01:05:00.119 --> 01:05:02.840 matter, who cares? People get killed all the time something like that. 840 01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:09.480 I'm paraphrasing. But that's where academia's attitude was, and now it's kind of 841 01:05:09.559 --> 01:05:13.320 drifted into this thing that you're talking about tonight, right, Mike, Yeah, 842 01:05:13.440 --> 01:05:16.440 that's where it's at and that's all there is to it. So once 843 01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:19.719 again, are you gonna write any articles about this upcoming or are we just 844 01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:25.519 talking about your work on the upcoming book here. I'm not gonna write an 845 01:05:25.599 --> 01:05:29.679 article about it, Okay, I just figured out check because you never know. 846 01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:31.280 I mean, it could be anything like that could come out at Wallstreet 847 01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:35.320 window dot com, because you got lots of interesting articles that have popped up 848 01:05:35.320 --> 01:05:40.119 there, not just stuff from other sites and things about Wall Street. Although 849 01:05:40.159 --> 01:05:43.480 you have been talking about the markets a bit lately, and as a matter 850 01:05:43.519 --> 01:05:45.880 of fact, I get emails from you that are telling me about different metals 851 01:05:46.559 --> 01:05:50.239 everything from copper to silver and gold lately. Looks like Mike, I don't 852 01:05:50.239 --> 01:05:55.119 know about that. Maybe we'll talk about it next time, but either way, 853 01:05:55.159 --> 01:05:59.800 I appreciate you doing this with us tonight and taking the time to discuss 854 01:05:59.840 --> 01:06:03.239 the media and the Kennedy assassination. Any other final thoughts before we're done here, 855 01:06:04.199 --> 01:06:08.360 No, I bet rats up. There you go. So no matter 856 01:06:08.360 --> 01:06:10.360 who you are, where you are, when you are, I want you 857 01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:13.960 to remember that I am merely o'celly. All of you are indeed the effect. 858 01:06:14.320 --> 01:06:16.280 Go over to Wall Street, Window dot com. I highly recommend the 859 01:06:16.320 --> 01:06:45.280 works by Michael Swanson Revelation through Conversation, Wall Window, dott go Silver the 860 01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:51.039 stock Market, wall Stream, Window, dot dot Perhaps you're invested deeply, 861 01:06:51.400 --> 01:06:56.599 Perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe you're thinking about getting started. Wall 862 01:06:56.719 --> 01:07:00.760 Street, Window, don Com, doo dot com. Will Swanson, the 863 01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:04.880 brilliant author of the War State, understood these trends professionally for many years, 864 01:07:04.960 --> 01:07:10.840 and now he gives you the benefit of his knowledge. Wall Street, streamo 865 01:07:11.079 --> 01:07:15.880 dot Com, go there, now, go there, now go there now, 866 01:07:17.199 --> 01:07:23.719 dot Com Radio Network, go ahead, call about the JFA assassination. 867 01:07:23.960 --> 01:07:27.119 Right, Well, what do you want to know Daddy Baker's wild claim Oswald 868 01:07:27.159 --> 01:07:30.159 girlfriends he knew Ruby and Barry answer weapons? Really, I imagine I could 869 01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:33.039 claim I have four wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon. But okay, 870 01:07:34.360 --> 01:07:38.039 Billy, and I'm trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come 871 01:07:38.119 --> 01:07:42.960 on now, has a real effort on the Dafay assassination. Go to Amazon 872 01:07:43.360 --> 01:07:47.000 dot com enter Judith Baker in her own words. You'll get the results for 873 01:07:47.079 --> 01:07:51.880 a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words and the 874 01:07:51.960 --> 01:07:58.039 known evidence in the case to get at well a different perspective. Let's say 875 01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:01.320 you can get Judith Barry Baker in her own words from the author himself, 876 01:08:01.440 --> 01:08:09.079 signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at kias jfk at aol dot 877 01:08:09.119 --> 01:08:13.880 com. It's a fun book and it actually dissects the many, many fantastic 878 01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:17.119 claims Judith Vary Baker in her own words. Thank you for all the great 879 01:08:17.159 --> 01:08:23.039 information revelation to conversation. This is James Corben at Quorter Report dot com and 880 01:08:23.079 --> 01:08:27.039 you're listening to the O'Kelly affected o'celly dot com. The War State by Michael 881 01:08:27.079 --> 01:08:31.000 Swanson explains the great national transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in 882 01:08:31.079 --> 01:08:35.760 the context of the times, and reveals never before published information about the Cuban 883 01:08:35.760 --> 01:08:41.279 missile crisis. President Kennedy would not have been assassinated if he had been president 884 01:08:41.319 --> 01:08:45.760 two hundred years ago. His assassination took place in the context of the Cold 885 01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:48.520 War and the rise of the national security state. Before World War II, 886 01:08:48.680 --> 01:08:53.600 the United States was a continental republic. In the decade that followed, it 887 01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:58.680 became an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only wanted to invade 888 01:08:58.680 --> 01:09:01.239 Cuba, but knew that there were short range missiles on the island armed with 889 01:09:01.319 --> 01:09:05.720 nuclear warheads that they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. Their 890 01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:10.800 invasion could have led to a Third World War, and they wanted to go 891 01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:15.560 to war anyway. The War State by Michael Swanson reveals why, and we'll 892 01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:18.800 show you what President Kennedy was up against. For more information, the Warstate 893 01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:53.479 dot com, My Grandma, God gosh, say go to Charlotte product dislovey 894 01:10:00.279 --> 01:10:10.199 Well, I'll be doing well. You will be action within your dime as 895 01:10:10.279 --> 01:10:20.920 a double well. More and more people putting down. We got diary for 896 01:10:21.239 --> 01:10:29.640 mannes say it's getting around well work I'm lie norm now, I mean because 897 01:10:29.960 --> 01:10:43.560 no one never died from smoking. We hed you're kidding me, You're kidding 898 01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:56.800 me, Yeah, yeah, you're kidding me. Well, then it would 899 01:10:57.119 --> 01:11:10.479 nur job. They had to find another way. Two dreck, that's the 900 01:11:10.840 --> 01:11:21.119 past thing they could come up bewas it's a gay way drug and leads to 901 01:11:21.439 --> 01:11:38.159 other substances. You're kidding me, Your kidding me, Yeah, you're kidding 902 01:11:38.279 --> 01:11:46.439 me. Well, more round, more people putting down, But we got 903 01:11:46.680 --> 01:11:54.399 badly for my decided chatting around. Well, what are the line coming now? 904 01:11:54.760 --> 01:11:59.800 Might be because no one ever died from smoking, and we