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This week we go to Africa and
the Dogon people of Mali, who describe

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interactions with alien beings known as the
Nomo. This is over five thousand years

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ago. My guest today is Robert
Tipple, who wrote a groundbreaking internationally bestseller

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known as The Serious Mystery, The
Contact of an Alien Race with Earth Lanes

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thousands of years ago, the information
they left on civilization and what may be

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contact today with alien beings. This
book caused such a stir when it came

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out in nineteen seventy six that the
CIA in England's MI six intelligence agencies came

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after Robert, came after his associates
and really wanted them to cease and desist

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from this narrative of ancient aliens.
All this and more today on Earth Ancients

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for Saturday, July fifteenth, twenty
twenty three. This is Earth Ancients.

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I'm your host, Cliff Dunning.
Hey, Hey, how are you?

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You know? When I started Earth
Ancients in twenty fourteen, the goal was

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to bring forth the latest thought leaders
on ancient civilizations, the evidence, the

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megalists, we don't know how they
are cut, you know, also potentially

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off world types. It all kind
of sprinkles together in many ways. And

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you know, we've had people,
We've had the best of the best.

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I mean, Earth Ancients is an
award winning podcast internationally, award winning simply

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because I demand the best from my
guests. As a former program director,

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I have the ins and outs with
the publishing houses, Hollywood news agencies.

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We have a lot of access.
And because we have access, this is

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what is the guiding light of Earth
Ancients programming. Now we've had Graham every

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year. We're gonna have him again
at the end of this year to talk

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about what's going on in his personal
life. If you guys didn't get a

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chance to see Ancient Apocalypse on Netflix, I strongly urge you to get it

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because it's just it's fun, it's
fun to look at and we're hoping that

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he gets to do a season two
so he can kind of continue on where

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he left off. He upset a
lot of archaeologists, a lot of anthropologists

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who are unable to bend to the
orthodox view of life, a view of

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history, and we question history every
single week here on Earth Ancients, as

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well as Destiny and an Earth Ancient
Special Edition, The Archives. But what

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I really love about Earth Ancients is
the fact that we are asking scientists who

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have gone off the orthodox trail and
are looking at our past through different lenses.

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And these lenses are and we don't
see this in a with traditional archaeologists.

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These are engineering, chemical analysis,
physics. True science is looking at

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our past and changing the narrative.
Now, my guest today is Robert Temple,

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Professor Robert Temple. I have wanted
to have him on the program for

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a number of years to talk about
a groundbreaking book he wrote in nineteen seventy

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six called The Serious Mystery. And
what makes this book not only profound for

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those who are into the ancient alien
hypothesis, it's the fact that when it

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came out, the scientific community,
other than a few oddballs, embraced it.

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In fact, we're going to hear
exactly what happened in this release this

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amazing book that was started out as
an article and was blossomed into a book

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simply because Robert was getting poor reaction
and he needed to continue on his research,

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and he actually released the entire book
or a couple of years after he

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wrote an article. And we'll hear
more details about this shortly, but it's

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an important book that a lot of
people can't talk about the orthodox he cannot

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talk about the potential that we were
seated. It's a form of pants burmia

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by other cultures, other planetary systems. And we've had Shandra Rook Ramsey on

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the program a number of times talking
about his belief that panspermia is in play

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right now, if you remember,
and by the way, we had this

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on Earth Ancient special edition the Archives, we had doctor Milton Wainwright who actually

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photographed what he believes are cells and
seeds that are in our stratosphere that open

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at a certain time, perhaps during
a special time of the year, and

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release their their interior. It looks
like bits and pieces of DNA. What

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makes this so amazing, and it's
just too much for most scientists, is

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the fact that when they look at
these pods, these seeds under the power

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of a microscope, their artificial seeds. They're made with some kind of metal

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or plastic or or combination of polymers
that we don't understand, and at some

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point they are releasing their contents in
our atmosphere. Now, this has likely

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been going on for thousands of not
ten thousands of years, and it's important

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that we talk about this now.
The program today is specific to this amazing

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discovery of this Dogon tribe in Africa
and what their history is after being contacted

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and educated by these beings called nomos. We don't know. I mean,

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there's a lot of history that has
been left on the way side the anthropologists.

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The initial research that was done in
the nineteen thirties and later was released

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in articles, were released in white
papers in scientific journals. Most of the

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public never heard of the Dogon people
until Robert Temple wrote this book, The

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Serious Mystery. So these kinds of
books are the foundation for Earth ancients.

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It is what makes me excited.
It drives my interest in our history.

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And if you've been with us long
enough, you know that I am constantly

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questioning the current narrative of our ancient
past. Historians would like to us to

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believe that prior to the Egyptians,
Sumerians, maya ancient Chinese and so on,

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there were hunters and gatherers. Well, the evidence is changing radically in

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the technology within the pyramids that are
likely not dynastic. Not the Great Pyramid

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has nothing to do with Egyptians at
all. This is the sense other buildings

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around the world. We've had two
scientists, doctor Mark Carlotto, Mark build

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Reps, who's a mathematician, show
us and begin to reveal evidence that there

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are earlier people that came to Earth
either evolved through thousands of years of evolution

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prior to our history. This is
an earlier epic, and according to Bill

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Reps, the earliest temples go back
four hundred thousand years. You can't mention

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that or even give that hint to
an academics, anthropologist or archaeologists. They

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just can't perceive a it. So
my hope, and we'll do this every

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single week, is to get the
science, get the evidence, get the

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validation of what the hell is going
on where we were in the previous epics.

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My big question always is who we
were our ancestors? Are they Homo

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sapiens sapiens that likely were, but
likely a different brain chemistry, different physiology,

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and so farth and so on,
And the other questions are what was

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Earth like? Now? It's possible
that Earth's gravity was different, planet was

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a different size, the continents were
different compared to where they are today.

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There were continents that are not invisible
now Atlantis could be one of them.

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We're gonna hear ear in a couple
of weeks about dogger Land, which connected

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Great Britain to Europe and what was
going on there. There were a lot

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of land mass on the planet in
the previous epic and where did these people

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go? Why don't we have evidence? Well, as we develop more ability

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to go under the underwater and do
surveys and do excavations and do archaeology,

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we're going to discover a whole new
world that opens the door to where we've

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been, who we were, and
who our ancestors were. So today's program,

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The Serious Mittery with Robert Temple,
is one of these foundational books that

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is very important for you to grasp. And it's really a benefit that we

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have a wonderful guest in Robert Timble, because he's a brilliant speaker, and

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not only that he is in tune
with what's going on currently with our government,

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the cover ups that are going on
in terms of UAPs Ailien interactions with

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earth lanes and you know, and
the question is gonna you'll hear it today,

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why does our government have such great
problems with off world types? Why

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are the revelations so hidden and kept
top secret from from everyday people. It

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doesn't make any sense. It really
doesn't. So I'm really excited about this.

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This is, like I said,
this is the kind of material that

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is critical to understand, critical to
take in and balance with your critical thinking

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skills. Is it right for me? Does it make sense? Does it

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flow with my consciousness? Or do
I deny it completely because of my fundamental

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religious background, my beliefs in Earth's
history, what my education is or does

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it we go to the next step. My PhD has blinded me. I

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cannot get beyond this. That's not
what I was trained to understand. And

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it's because of that training I disavow
the history as it's told to us by

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the Dugan people. So there you
go. Those are your choices. My

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great suggestion for you would be to
stay as open as you can open your

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brain, let it in. Listen
to my guests each week, and I

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think you'll realize that there is something
happening that is a revolutionary revolution in our

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history that are current historical perspective is
closed off. We are looking at our

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history from colored glasses, a single
perspective, and this has to change.

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Now. I have a short recording
done of a Dugon priest and you'll hear

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the question. This is a short
three minute interview. This is a priest

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in Africa, Dugan priest who is
being asked questions about their connection to the

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cosmos. So I have a quick
listen to this. Now, the Dogon

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people, they were able to chart
and map out the Serious Star. So

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as far as technology to do that, is there any other is there any

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hidden technology that they have or what
technology did they use to to be able

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to map out the Serious Star?
Yes, the Serious Star. I'll tell

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you. I see. I'm certain
I did tell you before. Because I'm

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a dog and I come from the
the one country I amn't born here,

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I can answer an easy execution.
So we don't have a special technology to

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know about the Serious Star. But
we Dougan people, we think our history

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is related and linked with the Serious
Star, because in our mythology we still

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think that we come from the sky
through the through the Serious Start. We

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have been guided on the earth by
Also, like the first question that that

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people had and I had myself was
now the Doguan were the first to map

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out the stars. As far as
seeking to rule which we call the Serious

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Star, Yes, I know.
Space travel is a big initiative as far

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as life being able to go to
Mars and live our Mars, do the

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dogun think is possible for human beings
to live on other planets? What?

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Okay? I'm about it? Said? They they don't understand how it's it's

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possible, okay, And they don't
think that would be possible one day okay,

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we're leaving outside this or this planet. They don't think if it's possible.

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Okay, yeah, this is this
is what they think. Okay.

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Now, the dog Guard came from
the Serious Star, correct, yea core

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do they plan on ever returning back
to the Serious Star? Okay? Logic

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and you correct? Wh iverybody joining, I said that we come from the

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Series Star from this is the mythology
of the Dogan country, of the Dogan

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people, and this is the history
of our being here in the Earth.

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But they they don't have any instruction
right now. They don't have any think

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of going back to live again on
a series Star right now, he said.

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They don't have any instruction from their
ancestor, and they don't know any

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They don't know how that would be
possible at the moment at the moment,

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but maybe yes, he said it. At the end, he said it's

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a life. So he don't know. They don't have any instruction. Yeah,

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now I know we talked about global
warming. Yes, you know was

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in here back when there were lions
and hyenas and antelope and all of that

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here in Dogan country. I'm Nana, I'm i to minute guard your sugar.

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Why why why did you do you
go? Why did she can do?

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Nick going in you? Now,
I'm gonna go n hen we're looking

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gott ii minute can be then shet
you Everybody like yeah there, okay,

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I'm gonna He said he didn't found
the walloo himself because he but his father

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shows the wallo as his father passed
away. His father shows antelope. They

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found koodoo here, they found gazelle
here, they found ana here, they

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found other big animals here. But
the walloo in Donau means antelope. They

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didn't found the antelope here himself,
I mean his generation, but his father

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father generation. Yes, and he
said, yes, I'm coming. And

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he said that there is a place
which is named guru Wauru means like the

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value of antelope. There is a
place where where you have you had a

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lot of antelope. And they named
this place name Walla guru means the value,

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the value of the antelope. Okay, yeah, so but then now

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he said, all these things are
gone except you have some Hyaena, not

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many of them, but you can
you have you can still have some hydas

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you now. The Doga live in
a place called Molly, Africa, and

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they live in these mud huts.
I have a gallery that you can see

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where they live and live right up
against a huge cliff, very very unique

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buildings and there's a great deal to
see in their sand paintings which describe the

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serious constellation and the planets that these
aliens who came to Earth came from.

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So that gallery is really critical to
check out. And by the way,

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you must you must go to Earth
Ancients Facebook page every week because there are

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galleries of some phenomenal imagery, illustrations
and graphs that are put up not only

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by me, but by our science
team, by our team in Europe and

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in America, and some of the
images are amazing. Our average readership is

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between five hundred thousand and a million
people every two weeks, and that's how

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popular these images are. If you're
not into the images, go to earth

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ancients dot com Facebook. You're only
going to get the images that I post

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and those those are what I call
show notes podcast show notes, so you

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can see those there. But there's
a lot to like on Earth Ancients group

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page or the international page on Facebook. So if you go to if you

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go to Facebook and you go to
Earth Ancients, you go to group,

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that's one group. If you go
to the other one, that's the I

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call the international group the hardcore listeners, and that's about one hundred thousand people

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who are either scientists, students,
anthropologists, archaeologists, egyptologists who pipe in

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and give you their opinion. And
it's really a good place to go.

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Not only does it sometimes validate the
guests that we have on the program,

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but it helps you understand that it
isn't a done deal just because scientists say

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it is. There's a lot of
conjecture, there's a lot of hypothesis,

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there's a lot of theories, and
a lot of science is guesswork or the

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best theories that can come up with, so which makes it really a challenge

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when when you go up against current
thought with your own theories, be it

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from a university or individual, it
can be a real problem. So so

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my guest today is Professor Robert People. And the book we're talking about is

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205
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206
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207
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00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:42.359
Robert Temples in the house. For
those of you who don't know who

224
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:47.640
he is, we just had him
on a few months ago discussing a book

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00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:52.920
called a New Science of Heaven.
It's based on his research on plasma.

226
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:59.279
Fascinating topic. But I gotta tell
you I have been a fan of Robert

227
00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:03.880
Temple's for many, many years,
and that's because he wrote a fascinating book

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00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:08.799
called The Serious Mystery. Would you
believe it was written in nineteen seventy six,

229
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.640
And what an influential book this was. People like Graham Hancock, Robert

230
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:19.920
bavalje On, Anthony West, my
friend Robert Anton Wilson, and many many

231
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:26.119
other authors have been influenced by this
book. And it came out so many

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00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:32.359
years ago. It's a great pleasure
to have Robert on the program. I

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didn't mention this before. I wanted
to read a little bit about his background.

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He is a member of the Royal
Astronomical Society, the Society for the

235
00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:49.440
Promotion of Hellenistic Studies, the egypt
Exploration Society, the Royal Historical Society,

236
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:56.839
the British School of Archeology at Athens, the Institute of Classical Studies, so

237
00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:03.319
forth and so on. He's written
books and I mentioned the book recently,

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00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:08.079
A New Science of Heaven. But
Robert, it's great to see you again.

239
00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:15.039
We have a lot to talk about. This book is fascinating, and

240
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:23.200
I want to start by mentioning that
this was originally an article that you wrote

241
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:32.000
based on a selection I think you
you you talk about connecting with a noted

242
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:37.319
individual and he is looking at various
tribes and he says, this is the

243
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:41.880
Dogana, the most unusual, and
you said, okay, I'm interested in

244
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:47.480
there. Talk a little bit about
how the Scott launched and what the focus

245
00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:52.079
was back there, because that's that's
fascinating that this was an article that turned

246
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:56.599
into a book. Well, it's
um. I'll try to give you the

247
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.319
short version of the story. Yeah, I was an undergraduate. First of

248
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:04.680
all, I went to university at
the age of sixteen rather than eighteen.

249
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:12.519
And um, and so I tended. My classmates found it maybe a little

250
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:18.519
bit embarrassing to be with somebody who
they regarded as a kid. Maybe so,

251
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:22.599
so it was kind of natural for
me to make friends with the older

252
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:27.720
boys who weren't embarrassed any longer because
they were a bit more grown up and

253
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:34.279
the idea of conversing with a sixteen
year old wasn't considered embarrassing. And and

254
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:42.640
so I I befriended a wonderful boy
called John Cogeshall, who was at least

255
00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:49.920
four years older than me, I
think. And he was sitting having a

256
00:27:51.039 --> 00:28:00.240
coke, and we had a coke
together in what passed for very basic not

257
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:04.480
really a student union. It was
just the University of Pennsylvania. This is

258
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:10.559
in Philadelphia, and they didn't really
have a student union then, and everything

259
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:14.839
was a bit primitive. But I
don't think I would like it today.

260
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:18.440
I liked it primitive. So um. He and I got talking and he

261
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.440
said that when he came to pend
that his father had told him to look

262
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:30.839
up his friend who was called Arthur
Young because John's father, Calvert carg Shaun,

263
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:34.960
had worked with this chap Arthur Young, who was an inventor who had

264
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:42.240
invented the Bell helicopter one with the
glass bubble, and John's father had actually

265
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:51.200
worked on the bubble of the helicopter. And so John went dutifully went off

266
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:56.440
and met Arthur Young, who was
an absolutely fascinating man and was much more

267
00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:02.240
interesting interesting than merely just a helicopter
inventor, because he was a very profound

268
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:11.799
philosopher and student of every branch of
science. He had studied mathematics at Princeton

269
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:15.279
under Veblen, and it was he
was He was frankly a genius, and

270
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:19.599
he liked younger people and used to
have have him come to see him and

271
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:23.880
for scientific discussions and that kind of
thing. And this is how I met

272
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:30.039
Arthur Young when I was sixteen,
and um, so I started seeing Arthur

273
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:36.880
more than John did. Um And
because John was often busy with ROTC,

274
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:44.160
he ended up as an officer in
the army for a while after he left

275
00:29:44.359 --> 00:29:49.799
university. And but I didn't do
ROTC, and so um I had more

276
00:29:49.880 --> 00:29:55.200
time available, and I would walk
to Center City where Arth had lived.

277
00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:00.079
He had a big house there,
and and I get I got into the

278
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:04.119
habit of dropping in because Arthur was
always there reading and studying and had the

279
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:07.880
most charming wife called Ruth. And
I'd be asked to stay for dinner,

280
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:12.640
which was, I must confess,
quite an attraction, a good idea,

281
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:19.640
because I wasn't eating very much.
And and so I dropped into Arthur one

282
00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:26.880
day and I was called Bob then, because everybody in Americans called Bob where

283
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.039
I was here in England, I'm
Robert. That they won't let me be

284
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:37.559
called Bob, and that's not formal
enough, you see. And so he

285
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:42.599
said, oh, Bob, I'm
reading a very interesting book. It's called

286
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:48.400
African Worlds, edited by somebody called
Daryl Ford. Yeah, I don't know

287
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:52.000
who Daryl Ford is. I just
got this book because it's got a chapter

288
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:56.720
about Each chapter is about a different
African tribe, so it's a whole collection

289
00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.200
of chapters about a whole collection of
tribes. And he said, it's very

290
00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:04.880
interesting and they're all very different from
one another, and most people don't realize

291
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.480
how different the African tribes are from
one another, which in itself is an

292
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:15.480
interesting subject. And he said,
But the most amazing African tribe are called

293
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:21.519
the Dogons. The Dogones he mispronounced
what we now know is should be Dogon,

294
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:26.400
he called them. He thought that
was quite funny, the Dogons that

295
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:32.880
dug On tribe, you know.
And he said that their religion and culture

296
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:38.400
entirely based on the star Serious.
He said, I found that very strange.

297
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:48.279
But they say that there's a star
that goes around Serious, and they

298
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:51.640
talk all about that. It's really
the star that goes around Serious that interests

299
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:55.880
them than Serious itself. He said, I wonder if there is a star

300
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:57.960
that goes around Serious. I said, oh, yes, yes, because

301
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:01.960
I knew a bit of at on
me and I said, well, yes,

302
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:06.680
Arthur, there is actually a star
going around Serious. That's why it's

303
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:12.359
called a binary star system. And
it goes around I forget how many years,

304
00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:17.319
and it's a small star what they
call a white dwarf, which I

305
00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:22.200
suppose these today days would be called
racist or colonialist for a dwarf to be

306
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:28.720
white, wouldn't it. Um?
So um, sorry about that, Yeah,

307
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:36.319
very un PC joke. So m
I said, I'm going to go

308
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:43.960
back and check in my one of
my astronomy books just to make sure this

309
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:45.519
because you have to bear in mind
there was no internet then. You couldn't

310
00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:51.119
just go to your computer and look
something up. You hadn't had a book

311
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:55.480
or go to the library. I
was practically living in the university library anyway.

312
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:00.880
And I looked it up, and
I want to see him again.

313
00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:07.519
I said, Arthur, you know
there is a star going around Seriously every

314
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:12.759
fifty years, Serious B they call
it. The astronomers call it B in

315
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:16.680
the main stars A and UM.
And so he said, well, let

316
00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:19.799
me get this book out again and
look at it. And he said,

317
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.839
well, you know they the dogone, Well no, he said, the

318
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:29.279
dog one tried say that there's this
little star that goes around serious every fifty

319
00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:31.039
years. But that's what you've just
told me you looked up in an astronomy

320
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:36.440
book. I said, well,
how how could they know that because nobody

321
00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:43.880
could can see the little starr it
was. It's you know, it's very

322
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:46.720
difficult to see because it's so small
and it's sort of blotted out by the

323
00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:51.920
enormous light coming from Serious A.
And I said, well, there's no

324
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:59.799
way a tribe in Africa without modern
scientific telescopes could could know about this star

325
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:06.400
much less know the orbital period.
This is ridiculously strange. And we agreed

326
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:08.880
that it was ridiculously a strange.
But then, you know, I was

327
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:15.920
involved in things, and he was
involved in things, and I didn't pursue

328
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:25.039
it, and neither did he.
I then moved to England, and I

329
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:30.920
got interested because I had by that
time met Arthur C. Clark, the

330
00:34:31.039 --> 00:34:37.360
science fiction writer. And in fact, I spent two years watching Kubrick make

331
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:44.159
the film two thousand and one,
a Space Artyssey, and and so I

332
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:46.559
was reading Arthur's books, I mean
the other author, Arthur C. Clark's

333
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:53.360
books and all about extraterrestrial life and
this kind of thing. And he not

334
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:58.880
only wrote the science fiction novels,
he wrote essays and what have you.

335
00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:02.119
And we talked a lot because he's
a completely open guy, and on his

336
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:07.440
visits to England from from Ceylon where
he lived, which Ceylon is now called

337
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:14.559
Sri Lanka, then he would be
very open to to seeing people in pubs.

338
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:19.039
And you know, he was never
a stuffy person and who had a

339
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:23.440
big idea about himself. He was
a completely normal, normal human being.

340
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:30.800
And it was never ego centric,
the very opposite of the horrible Carl Sagan,

341
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:35.800
who was so stuck on himself.
He was he was the kind of

342
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:40.159
male Megan Marco, who was not
my favorite woman, and so um,

343
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:45.360
you know, I don't like these
kind of narcissistic, egotistic people. So

344
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:50.519
the opposite, he was totally open, and so he got me really thinking

345
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:55.639
about space and life in space.
And I met several of the people doing

346
00:35:55.679 --> 00:36:01.239
all that. I got to know
Asimov and various people of that sort.

347
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:07.679
And so I wrote to Arthur.
Because there were no emails, remember this

348
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.480
as long ago you had to do
snail mail. I wrote to Arthur and

349
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:19.239
I said, can you remind me
of the name of that book where the

350
00:36:19.639 --> 00:36:25.280
dog Gone tried were discussed and who
had their culture based on the little star

351
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:30.760
going around? Serious? And he
looked it up and sent me a photocopy

352
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:34.800
of the chapter. He's very good
that way. But I was doing a

353
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:37.760
bit of research for him always.
I helped him write his two main books

354
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:43.760
because his writing style was very bad
at first. He later became excellent at

355
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:46.199
it, but he did he was
not a natural writer to start with,

356
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:51.719
and so I used to help him
with the style and so on, and

357
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:54.559
do research for him and I discovered
some of his fundamental things that he put

358
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:59.679
in his books. We worked well
together despite the huge age gap, which

359
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:05.920
we ignored. And so then I
got that and I went to the Royal

360
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:10.599
Anthropological Society in London, which still
existed then it shut down a few years

361
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:14.199
later, and they had a big
library, and I said, what have

362
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:17.000
you got about the Dogon tribe and
the library? And said, oh,

363
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:22.159
you mean the Dogon tribe, which
is when I first learned how to pronounce

364
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:25.320
their name, And he said,
oh, lots of things. And I

365
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:30.360
went to something that younger people would
never have heard of, called card index,

366
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:37.559
because the libraries had all their books
listed on These are board cards and

367
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.400
you pull them out of a drawer
of drawers, you know, the index

368
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:45.559
cards. Yeah, index cards.
I'm sure nobody under forty has ever seen

369
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:49.079
one, but that's how it was. And so I saw all these things,

370
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:52.480
and everything was in French, because
the anthropologists who had studied them were

371
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:57.920
French, because this was in a
country called Molly, which used to be

372
00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:02.760
French Equatorial Africa they called it,
or even the East call it the the

373
00:38:04.119 --> 00:38:07.840
Egyptian, the French Sudan, which
is kind of strange thing to call it.

374
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:16.440
And so this is long before Molly
became an independent republic. And I

375
00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:22.440
found one article that had serious in
the title. But oh, that's the

376
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:25.199
one I need, because I want
to find out more about this crazy serious

377
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:30.960
idea. You know, what what
does this tribe think of talking about talking

378
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.480
about the star serious? And how
do they make the overttle period of its

379
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:37.639
companion? And so I got this. Now I couldn't read French, and

380
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:42.320
so I got somebody to do a
very poor translation of it, which wasn't

381
00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:46.360
very good, but it gave me
enough information to go on with and and

382
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:52.039
so I thought, I've got to
look into this a lot more. And

383
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:55.119
then I came to a conclusion that
it was such a strange tale that I

384
00:38:55.159 --> 00:39:01.880
should write an article about it,
because I had by that time started doing

385
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:07.760
a bit of journalism. Well,
in fact, I had actually started journalism

386
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:14.159
when I was still in America,
but it was slower getting started in London,

387
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:20.360
where I didn't know anybody. So
I wrote an article about this,

388
00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:25.639
saying as much as I knew at
that time, which wasn't necessarily very much.

389
00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:29.800
But I just just wanted to call
attention to this because my idea was

390
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:35.599
or somebody more qualified than myself.
We'll go off and investigate this which needs

391
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:42.920
investigating. I was convinced of it. I couldn't get any any editor of

392
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:46.280
any magazine to take it seriously,
and they would say things like, well,

393
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:49.639
we'd have to know much more.
This is too weird, you know,

394
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:52.079
I mean, where did you get
this problem? And then so I

395
00:39:52.519 --> 00:40:00.119
then expanded the article by doing more
research to become more convincing to them that

396
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:06.280
it was important enough to publish the
article. And this come completely flopped and

397
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:09.280
I couldn't get anybody to take any
notice of it at all. Yeah,

398
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:15.480
this is um. They just they
wouldn't take it seriously. It was too

399
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:19.960
weird. Their idea was, this
can't be true, therefore we're not going

400
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:22.280
to publish it. So then I
thought, well, I'm going to go

401
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:28.199
on looking answer this even if I
can't publish an article. And I kept

402
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:34.079
researching more and more and more,
and it turned into a book. Well

403
00:40:34.119 --> 00:40:36.480
then I thought, well what do
I do with a book? Because I

404
00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:42.360
didn't have an agent or I never
posed a book, and and I was

405
00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:46.039
the young guy that nobody ever heard
of. I didn't were you Were you

406
00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:52.159
a university student when you were writing
this book or had you graduated already?

407
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:58.159
Oh? I graduated from Penn.
Okay, we're going to England. Okay,

408
00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:01.960
So so this is written an then
pretty much well completely oh okay,

409
00:41:02.440 --> 00:41:09.400
I didn't read any of it,
okay, And so um, then um,

410
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:15.719
just because I happened to have a
friendly neighbor in London who's he was

411
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:21.920
a gay guy whose boyfriend or partner
as one would say now, was a

412
00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:27.800
literary agent. Um, he said, well, look, um, I'll

413
00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:30.639
introduce you to him. I didn't
find him very friendly, but he said

414
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:39.079
he'll he'll take you on and be
your agent for your book. They offered

415
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:44.480
it to a publisher called Sidgwick and
Jackson, which was an independent publisher.

416
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:47.280
There aren't any left now, but
there were plenty then, which was a

417
00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:53.280
very strange place. But I can't
get into the story of of Sigewikon Jackson

418
00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:59.719
Jackson. That's the subject of another
conversation. And so they accepted the book

419
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:05.280
away, to the great surprise of
the agent and because he didn't think anybody

420
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:12.039
would take this nonsense. And so
I got the vast sum of two hundred

421
00:42:12.039 --> 00:42:17.559
and fifty pounds for this book.
That was your advance or what yeah,

422
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:22.960
okay, I had a royalty deal. But but and that was nineteen seventy

423
00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:30.840
three. So I delivered the book
in nineteen seventy three. The publisher they

424
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:35.599
took three years to get around to
publishing it because they they had no interest

425
00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:37.719
in it, and they thought,
this is a ridiculous book. Nobody's going

426
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:40.840
to buy it. But you know, after three years of my nagging them,

427
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:46.480
and meanwhile, I only had the
two hundred and fifty pounds. See,

428
00:42:46.519 --> 00:42:53.400
I wasn't earning any money from this
great venture. And they finally decided,

429
00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:57.280
oh well, we'll bring it out, and they published it in nineteen

430
00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:02.159
seventy six. And during the interval
I wrote the appendices that are at the

431
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:07.679
back of that book, which was
a very interesting one about the Greek philosopher

432
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:13.360
Proclus who knew about the invisible moons
and planets and things. And I wrote

433
00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:22.880
that one up. And so it
came out and to everybody's total astonishment,

434
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:28.920
most of all the astonishment of my
publishers, who did not think the book

435
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:35.760
was worth a penny. It got
lead favorable rave reviews in The Times and

436
00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:40.559
the Telegraph, which are the two
major newspapers in London. They simply couldn't

437
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:45.159
believe it. Times in the Telegraph
both thought that I was the best thing

438
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:51.519
since sliced bread, and the book
was wonderful, which made the people at

439
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:58.559
the publishers feel rather small and stupid, which were And anyway, it went

440
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:04.440
on from there and it started agetting, and then it was a big television

441
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:08.800
coverage on the BBC about it,
and various things happened like that, and

442
00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:15.000
so then it's sold all over the
world. It became a huge bestseller in

443
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:19.119
Germany. It was I think on
the best seller list in Germany for two

444
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:23.679
years. Now. Wasn't there some
serious scientific paper journals like Nature that picked

445
00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:30.760
it up? And yes, we're
very favorably. It was very favorably reviewed

446
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:36.119
by a professor of astronomy in Nature
as a lead review in one of the

447
00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:38.039
Nature issues. Yeah, you hit
it. You hit a home run out

448
00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:43.400
of the park with this book.
You were like the scictific community pretty much

449
00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:46.480
embraced it, right, they did, absolutely, And that lasted for about

450
00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:53.039
a year, and then by nineteen
seventy seven I became the target of a

451
00:44:53.199 --> 00:45:02.559
coordinated character assassination campaign by a group
of people who basically run by a certain

452
00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:07.440
intelligence agency that might be in the
same country where you are at the moment.

453
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:10.239
Well, I want to before we
get into that, and this is

454
00:45:10.760 --> 00:45:19.000
very strange what happened. We're talking
the late seventies, and first we get

455
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:24.239
a positive reaction from the scientific community
universal. I mean, we have the

456
00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:29.639
every newspaper, every magazine, I
mean Nature, Nature by itself is a

457
00:45:29.800 --> 00:45:35.159
huge, very very prestigious magazine for
them to say, you've got something here,

458
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:37.239
we'd like it, so forth and
so on, accolades from them,

459
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:44.320
and then all of a sudden,
a year later, the intelligence community CIA,

460
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:50.559
M I six start turning on you. Why why does this happen?

461
00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:54.760
Well, that's what I wanted to
know. I now realize that they don't

462
00:45:54.800 --> 00:46:02.079
like anybody to get really close to
the series that's no pun intended issues concerning

463
00:46:02.119 --> 00:46:06.920
active terrestrial intelligence. In other words, they want totally control the narrative on

464
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:10.440
that subject. And if it's crazy
people writing about flying sauces, they don't

465
00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:15.639
care. But if it's somebody who's
starting to get praised in Nature magazine,

466
00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:19.719
then I was considered a threat.
So, I mean, that doesn't make

467
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:22.960
sense to me, especially during the
time when you're writing this, because we

468
00:46:23.079 --> 00:46:28.880
got people well, maybe what you're
saying, is is the case You're you're

469
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:36.400
getting alcolades from scientific community and they
would rather have you be ancient alien perhaps

470
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:39.840
so Eric Van Downigan kind of they
don't worry about that kind of thing.

471
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:45.719
Yeah, that's that's too frivolous for
them to worry about. Yew. How

472
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:52.599
bad did this uh, this oversight
affect you? Oh? It was terrible,

473
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:57.199
really terrible, And it included Carl
Sagan as one of the main people

474
00:46:57.239 --> 00:47:01.800
because he wasn't he was a CII
guy. Yeah. Now, I had

475
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:09.159
spoken to Isaac Asimov prior to this, and he had read my book and

476
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:13.719
thought it was wonderful, and he
said he was look, he kept looking

477
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:16.400
for mistakes and errors and he said
he actually said to me, I couldn't

478
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:21.639
find a single mistake or error in
your book anywhere as if he was gazed

479
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.480
and he was really in favor of
it. And then with only weeks later

480
00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:30.840
he turned against me and started savagely
attacking me, which totally was in contradiction

481
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:35.360
to what he had privately said to
me because he'd been given his instructions.

482
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:42.159
You see, because there's this group
of the psychop scientific Investigation of Claims of

483
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:47.719
the Paranormal Si cop was the name
of their group, and the members of

484
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:54.079
that took their instructions from on high. And if there was an enemy like

485
00:47:54.239 --> 00:48:00.079
me who surfaced, an enemy to
the total control of the UM it's a

486
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:07.199
serious discussion of anything extraterrestrial, then
they would they would target that person and

487
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:15.559
systematically relentlessly published terrible articles accusing me
of being an idiot, everything was wrong,

488
00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:23.760
and and Um Sagan published an article
attacking me an omnimagazine which the people

489
00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:30.440
might remember it was a very very
glossy magazine. And UM I wrote to

490
00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:32.199
the editor. I complained to Arthur. He said, oh, right,

491
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:39.280
to the editor, I know him, and um and so UM I said

492
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:44.440
that everything that Karl Sagan said about
the book in his article is wrong.

493
00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:50.320
I mean to the most ludicrous extent. He's got everything wrong and and the

494
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:55.360
charges he levels against me are totally
false. And UM, may I please

495
00:48:55.400 --> 00:48:59.840
have the right of reply and write
an article myself correcting all of that.

496
00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:05.519
And and so I got to apply
from them saying we don't want to upset

497
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:10.159
Carl. I said, well,
look yeah, I said, well I

498
00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:13.679
don't. I don't want to attack
Carl. I want to set the record

499
00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:16.679
straight and correct all these errors,
and they refused to let me publish even

500
00:49:16.760 --> 00:49:21.960
one word, even as a letter. But you see, that was in

501
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:28.079
terms of defending myself. But it
got much worse because the CIA then targeted

502
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:34.119
me for many, many, many
years, and they would approach people whom

503
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:39.840
I knew and tell them terrible things
about me which weren't true. Princess I

504
00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:47.840
am. I made an arrangement to
write a fourteen training videos with a with

505
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:52.760
a guy who had a video company, and we did one, a very

506
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:57.000
good one that was and um,
we were going to do thirty nine more

507
00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:00.000
just to first orders. This was
going to become a really major busines,

508
00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:07.679
these respect training videos. And m
he he. He phoned me and he

509
00:50:07.719 --> 00:50:10.599
said, Robert, UM, I'm
not supposed to tell you this. I've

510
00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:15.039
been warned not to tell you.
He said, but you're such a good

511
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:17.320
friend and I like you so much, and I feel so bad about this

512
00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:24.039
that I feel honor bound to tell
you what's happened. He said, I

513
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:28.559
can't work with you. I said, what do you mean, We've already

514
00:50:28.599 --> 00:50:30.679
got an agreement, We've already made
our first film. No, no,

515
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:35.039
no, it's not that I don't
want to work with you, Robert.

516
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:38.039
He said, I can't work with
you, which I said, what do

517
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:42.360
you mean you can't work with me? He said, well, Robert,

518
00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:46.880
the CIA have come to see me. Now we're talking about he lives in

519
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:53.760
England. Yeah, but the CIA
came to see him in England and they

520
00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:59.159
said, we understand you're doing a
series of films with Robert Temple. You

521
00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:02.199
must you can't do that. You
must stop. If you don't stop,

522
00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:07.159
we will destroy your business. He
said, what do you mean, It's

523
00:51:07.239 --> 00:51:13.519
ridiculous. And he tried to not
go along with that for a few weeks,

524
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:17.239
and he said they were pestering him
every day, phoning him, coming

525
00:51:17.320 --> 00:51:24.079
to see him, threatening him.
And he said that he hated to tell

526
00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:30.119
me this because he felt like a
jerk, but he said he couldn't afford

527
00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:36.039
to have his whole life and his
whole business ruined. Yeah, because we

528
00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:39.199
wanted to work together, he said, it was it was more then it

529
00:51:39.400 --> 00:51:44.280
was worth to him to go on
working with me because the CIA would take

530
00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:47.280
revenge against him. Yeah, Robert, you write something fascinating in this.

531
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:50.000
I don't want to spend a lot
of time on this, but I do

532
00:51:50.119 --> 00:51:53.840
want to talk about it because you
considered they were considering you what you call

533
00:51:53.960 --> 00:52:00.119
a security thread. Yes, and
this is because any about a friendly in

534
00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:06.960
the public things. Yeah, this
has to this has this is actually moves

535
00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:10.719
into the present time when we're talking
about unidentified aerial phenomenon or the new term

536
00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:19.880
UAPs, anything to do with off
world aliens UFOs, any kind of clarity

537
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:25.719
that isn't comic book like ancient Aliens
and books like that that relate to that,

538
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:32.840
and someone like you who's a serious
researcher in the scientific realm, this

539
00:52:34.119 --> 00:52:37.840
is a problem for the for this
security agency, for the CIA m I

540
00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:43.840
six and you are a threat,
I guess, to the point where they

541
00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:46.320
didn't want anybody to have anything to
do with you, so they wanted to

542
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:52.639
destroy me completely. Yeah. Now
I was already a member of something called

543
00:52:52.679 --> 00:53:00.280
the Royal United Services Institute for Defense
Studies in and UM. But this because

544
00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:02.960
I was interested in defense, and
I used to go along to the the

545
00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:08.119
talks and then UM you get people
like the head of NATO and and so

546
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:13.920
on, and the Defense Minister coming
along and sometimes you didn't even get to

547
00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:19.760
chat with them. I was fascinated, just pure amateur is interesting wasn't involved

548
00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:27.880
in any of this kind of thing. Defense and Um and so UM one

549
00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:30.079
day at tea after a lecture,
because we used to all go up to

550
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:37.800
the director's office and have tea in
those days, and Um Chat I was

551
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:45.440
very friendly with called um Brigadier Bidwell, Um, who was always there.

552
00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:51.400
Um came up to me at tea
and he said, Robert Um, I've

553
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:59.280
read your book The Serious Mystery.
Why would you read my book The Serious

554
00:53:59.320 --> 00:54:02.840
Mystery Unit in that sort of thing. You're a military historian. Oh,

555
00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:06.079
I know, I know. I
would never normally have read it. I

556
00:54:06.159 --> 00:54:10.320
was told I had to. I
said, what do you mean, You're

557
00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:13.840
told you had to read my book, The Serious Mystery. I mean it's

558
00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:17.320
just so UNU because he was a
very straight guy, you know, old

559
00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:22.599
guy retired of course, And he
said, well, you know, I

560
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:28.719
was told I was approached. And
they said, you know this Robert Temple,

561
00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:32.400
you're very friendly with him. We
want you have to read his book

562
00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:36.039
and write a report on it and
tell us what you think, and give

563
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:38.320
us a report on what you think
of him and him in connection with this

564
00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:45.000
book. This was for the British
security people because the trouble originated in America,

565
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:51.119
didn't originate in Britain. It was
the Americans pressing the Brits and so

566
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:55.199
he said, So I read it. I found it very interesting. I

567
00:54:55.280 --> 00:55:00.760
mean I didn't think I would the
last thing I would normally read, but

568
00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:02.679
he said, but when I got
into it, I thought it was very

569
00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:07.639
interesting. So I just wanted to
congratulate you, Robert, on writing that

570
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:13.039
strange book, and which is not
very cool. This is what not what

571
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:16.199
he's meant to have done. Of
course, he's meant to have attacked me.

572
00:55:16.880 --> 00:55:21.159
And um, he said, I
wrote a report about it. I

573
00:55:21.239 --> 00:55:24.880
said how interesting it was, and
just to not go down well with the

574
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:31.880
CIA, and several people behaved like
that and talk about many people approached me

575
00:55:31.920 --> 00:55:37.400
and said, you won't believe Arthur
C. Clark. He phoned me from

576
00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:42.159
Sri Lanka one day. And this
is when making those kind of long distance

577
00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:45.239
calls was quite a hassle. Couldn't
do a direct dial. I had to

578
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:50.840
go through operators. And he said, he called me Bob. He said,

579
00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:59.119
Bob, Um, I don't want
to alarm you unduly, but I

580
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:01.480
just want to warn knew about something
he said, I've discovered because he was

581
00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:07.239
very friendly with all the guys at
NASA, and I was friendly with a

582
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:13.039
couple of guys from NASA. He
said, I want to warn you because

583
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:22.559
Isaac, which was Asimov and his
group are going for you. They're going

584
00:56:22.599 --> 00:56:25.440
to try and destroy you. They
are very, very dangerous enemies of yours.

585
00:56:27.159 --> 00:56:30.039
And he said, I don't know
what you can do to stop them

586
00:56:30.199 --> 00:56:35.840
or to protect yourself, but I
wanted to warn you that these are very

587
00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:38.920
dangerous people and they're going for you. That was Arthur Clark, who was

588
00:56:38.960 --> 00:56:45.199
the mildest of men, and he
never criticized anyone to call attention to me

589
00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:49.239
because I was his friend. That
I was in danger because of these weird

590
00:56:49.559 --> 00:56:57.239
people, some of whom were supposedly
his friends like Asimov, were determined to

591
00:56:57.400 --> 00:57:00.480
knock me out of the picture.
This is what it is like in the

592
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:06.559
many, many more examples. Yeah, I wrote replies to most of the

593
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:13.639
printed attacks, and I published them
as a pamphlet which is downloadable from the

594
00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:21.840
website www dot research gate. When
word dot net, if I think it's

595
00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:24.679
um, the data is nineteen seventy
seven. You couldn't you type in my

596
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:30.320
name, yeah, Temple, and
you go down the list they're chronocologically listed

597
00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:35.280
all my technical papers and things.
Go down to nineteen seventy seven, and

598
00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:40.719
you will find um this um it's
called. It's a pamphlet called The Serious

599
00:57:40.800 --> 00:57:46.239
Mystery, Answering the Critics, in
which I totally demolish Carl Sagan and all

600
00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:53.800
the other guys. Yeah, and
already twelve thousand downloaded that havent twelve thousand

601
00:57:53.880 --> 00:58:02.440
people downloaded that without my tell it
must be filled the fact descinating replies to

602
00:58:04.159 --> 00:58:12.039
these these attacking letters. We're gonna
take a short commercial break to allow our

603
00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:16.480
sponsors to identify themselves, and we'll
be right back with my guest today,

604
00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:23.000
Robert Temple, and his view of
the book he wrote in nineteen seventy six

605
00:58:23.199 --> 00:59:07.280
called The Serious Mystery. We'll be
right back. I guess today is Professor

606
00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:13.639
Robert Temple. He is coming to
us from England today. He wrote a

607
00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:21.000
groundbreaking international bestseller in nineteen seventy six
called The Serious Mystery, and it highlights

608
00:59:21.079 --> 00:59:27.760
the dogon people of Mali, Africa
and their connections to an alien race known

609
00:59:27.800 --> 00:59:36.719
as the Gnomos, who come from
the Serious Constellation. I want to get

610
00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:42.079
into the fundamentals of this book,
Robert No, No, it wasn't nineteen

611
00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:45.599
seventy seven. Hold on, I've
got it wrong. It was nineteen ninety

612
00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:49.440
seven, oh ninety seven, quite
a few years later. Yes, that's

613
00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:53.519
because in nineteen ninety eight I brought
a new edition of The Serious Mystery.

614
00:59:54.119 --> 01:00:00.000
Yeah, it expanded with fifty more
material. Yeah, you've seen it,

615
01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:07.039
and that's the one that's currently in
print, and that you It has a

616
01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:10.960
lot more information in it. And
the reason I brought it out was that

617
01:00:12.199 --> 01:00:17.679
some aster physicists verified one of the
statements of the Dogon tribe about the Serious

618
01:00:17.719 --> 01:00:23.119
Star System, and it was verified
by some aster physicists and I so it

619
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:27.599
was like a verifying a prediction,
you see. And so I brought the

620
01:00:27.639 --> 01:00:31.280
book out again in expanded form,
highlighting the fact that the information in it,

621
01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:37.119
which was considered to be impossible,
had just been verified, which is

622
01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:46.199
equally embarrassing to people that then became
popular. You're basically verifying that aliens came

623
01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:52.639
to Earth left Their impressions with this
African tribe were not with the African tribe,

624
01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:59.039
no, No, the story they
maintained that they got all this information

625
01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:06.760
their ancestors go all the information visiting
aliens, but it never happened in Africa,

626
01:01:07.199 --> 01:01:12.880
the dog The dogon never claimed that
anybody visited them in Africa, and

627
01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:15.800
they've only been in Africa for one
thousand years. Where there where did their

628
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:22.119
ancestors actually reside. Well, this
has all been traced by anthropologists quite on

629
01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:27.119
my work, and and so I
discovered all that and put it into the

630
01:01:27.199 --> 01:01:31.840
serious mystery to explain who are these
dogon and where did they come from?

631
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:38.280
Well, they all came down from
the oasis of the Phasan f ziz And

632
01:01:39.239 --> 01:01:45.639
which is in the Sahara desert um
about a thousand years ago. And they

633
01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:53.760
they were they looked a bit like
it sort of our skin color um.

634
01:01:54.360 --> 01:02:01.000
And then they intermarried with local people
so that they're now very black in appearance.

635
01:02:01.639 --> 01:02:05.719
But you know that the reason why
people are black is to protect their

636
01:02:06.880 --> 01:02:13.559
their bodies from the ultra violet radiation. So they why skins are darker for

637
01:02:13.719 --> 01:02:17.000
people living in the tropics, because
the UV would kill them otherwise. So

638
01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:22.320
the melanin fills up the skin and
you get darker and darker and darker.

639
01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:25.280
The further south you go, the
nearer the equator you are, so that

640
01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:30.360
you survive. That's that's why there
are people whose skins are black, doesn't

641
01:02:30.400 --> 01:02:35.320
mean that they're necessarily African. You
get that with the Ethiopians, you get

642
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:38.760
it with some of the people in
Sri Lanka, you get it with all

643
01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:44.760
the people around the world, the
Dravidians in India. Um, this is

644
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:51.760
this is all to do with ultra
violet radiation affecting the skin. And so

645
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:58.719
the reason why people are so weird
about being and taking any notice at all

646
01:02:58.760 --> 01:03:01.800
of skin color, which I won't
um, it's because they don't understand what

647
01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:06.559
skin color means. And this is
where all this weird racism comes in,

648
01:03:07.159 --> 01:03:13.760
which is so pointless and stupid.
Um. You know, it's literally superficial

649
01:03:13.840 --> 01:03:20.320
and that is pun intended because what
could be more superficial about a person than

650
01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:24.039
how much melanin they've got in their
skin? And exactly you get all the

651
01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:27.280
white people, what do they do. They lye in the sound to get

652
01:03:27.320 --> 01:03:31.199
a tan. They end up darker
than the people that they feel racist against.

653
01:03:32.440 --> 01:03:37.039
And yet they think that's beautiful.
But it's not beautiful if it's on

654
01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:40.119
somebody else, only only them lying
in the sun. This is total insanity,

655
01:03:40.239 --> 01:03:45.599
the whole skin color nonsense. Right, So when when when was the

656
01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:52.639
first contact of these aliens? Uh? Well, they they maintained that it

657
01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:57.159
was in the very distant past.
So then I traced the ancestors back much

658
01:03:57.199 --> 01:04:02.920
further than the oasis of For then
they they were a tribe that lived in

659
01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:16.079
North Africa for millennia. They were
living in Libya and Algeria and that area

660
01:04:17.519 --> 01:04:20.400
for a very long time. They
were very well known, and they were

661
01:04:20.440 --> 01:04:28.480
even mentioned by the ancient Greek historian
Herodotus. And I constructed a map of

662
01:04:28.639 --> 01:04:33.320
the north of the North African tribes
as described by Herodotus. It depending up

663
01:04:33.639 --> 01:04:40.039
his descriptions upon the sequence in which
you encountered them as you went in whatever

664
01:04:40.119 --> 01:04:44.800
direction. And I was able to
produce the first map of the North African

665
01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:49.400
tribes in the fourth century DC.
But these people were already there. And

666
01:04:49.599 --> 01:05:01.639
so the chief god of the Dogon
tribe is called um. Well, let's

667
01:05:01.639 --> 01:05:11.800
put it like this. The people
who came into North Africa came from Egypt

668
01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:17.639
from the oasis of Seawell. And
their god's name is the same as the

669
01:05:17.800 --> 01:05:24.480
as the god's name in the Dogon
tribe. And I purchased in Paris a

670
01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:30.320
number of years ago an object made
by one of the native tribes, that

671
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:34.440
is the related tribes with the four
tribes in Mali who have this tradition,

672
01:05:34.639 --> 01:05:41.119
one of whom is the Bambara.
And I bought a Bambara artifact which is

673
01:05:41.159 --> 01:05:46.719
a perfect depiction of the ancient Egyptian
dog god Anubis. But it was a

674
01:05:46.760 --> 01:05:50.360
couple of hundred years old. You
can buy these things very easily in Paris,

675
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:59.800
these ancient artifacts of the African tribes, and so I have this ancient

676
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:04.519
Bombara depiction of a nervous but they
all have the ancient Egyptian traditions, you

677
01:06:04.599 --> 01:06:12.000
see, and the whole book was
written about this. The last the southernmost

678
01:06:12.039 --> 01:06:17.480
of those migrating tribes are the people
of Ghana known as the Akan ak n

679
01:06:17.679 --> 01:06:26.559
who are very numerous and they maintain
in their traditions all kinds of ancient Egyptian

680
01:06:26.800 --> 01:06:33.480
details. So what happened was these
these people were religious, religious minority who

681
01:06:33.519 --> 01:06:41.400
were expelled from Egypt and they didn't
like the changes taking place perhaps at the

682
01:06:41.480 --> 01:06:46.360
time of Akatan, who knows,
and they they left Egypt. They first

683
01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:51.280
went to the oasis of Siwa and
U, and then they just became a

684
01:06:51.360 --> 01:06:56.960
big tribe all over the north of
Africa, and they ended up in Western

685
01:06:57.039 --> 01:07:00.280
Africa. And they constitute the five
tribe as follows, the Dogon, the

686
01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:04.159
Bambara, the Minianka, and the
Bozo, the Bozo being the ones who

687
01:07:04.239 --> 01:07:09.559
lived by the river and fish,
and then the Akhon of Ghana. Those

688
01:07:09.559 --> 01:07:15.079
are the five tribes descended from the
ancient Egyptians in western Africa. That's fascinating.

689
01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:20.119
And so they claim that the beings
from another world from the system of

690
01:07:20.159 --> 01:07:25.039
the Star series where they claim there's
a planet and they know the difference between

691
01:07:25.079 --> 01:07:30.480
planets and stars talk to the ancestors
in the original homeland. So in other

692
01:07:30.519 --> 01:07:35.239
words, they would have visited Egypt, not oh my god, really present

693
01:07:35.320 --> 01:07:39.599
day Egypt. Well, this is
what they claim, you see. Yeah,

694
01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:45.440
I didn't make any of this up. I'm repeating the traditions and what's

695
01:07:45.519 --> 01:07:48.960
known by anthropologists. You know,
this is not a fantasy that I've invented.

696
01:07:50.280 --> 01:07:57.039
The messenger, don't shoot the messenger. No, I think it's fascinating.

697
01:07:58.440 --> 01:08:03.480
On the front of the most recent
addition, it says new scientific evidence

698
01:08:03.559 --> 01:08:11.440
of alien contact five thousand years ago. Well, in the annuals of Egyptian

699
01:08:11.599 --> 01:08:15.119
history. That's not that I mean, that's old, that's old kingdom,

700
01:08:16.680 --> 01:08:21.479
old dynasty. Does this go before
that? Well, those things that go

701
01:08:21.600 --> 01:08:27.479
on jackets of books are not necessarily
written by the author. I agree,

702
01:08:27.720 --> 01:08:32.239
I've had that happened to me go
ahead. So we don't know when this

703
01:08:32.359 --> 01:08:38.359
occurred, but it seems that it
did, and so we're faced with this.

704
01:08:39.159 --> 01:08:42.720
But the book is called The Serious
Mystery because I admit that it's a

705
01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:48.439
mystery. Yeah, there's no answer
yet, but my hypothesis is that it

706
01:08:48.560 --> 01:08:54.720
is probably true that there was this
visitation. So who are these people?

707
01:08:54.920 --> 01:08:59.439
Then have a whole chunk of the
book about who these beings were, and

708
01:09:00.039 --> 01:09:05.319
and so on, lots of details
and depictions. This is the normal.

709
01:09:06.119 --> 01:09:12.039
Yes, the Dogon tribe called them
the normal, and um that they had

710
01:09:12.720 --> 01:09:16.840
fish tails, that they um that
they were amphibious, that they preferred to

711
01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:19.560
live in the sea, but they
could come out of it for a while,

712
01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:23.760
but then they go back to the
sea. And I discovered the same

713
01:09:23.840 --> 01:09:29.520
tradition existed among the Babylonians and the
Assyrians, and uh, and then I

714
01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:33.680
ancient Athens was meant to be founded
by such a person. Even ancient China

715
01:09:33.800 --> 01:09:40.439
was founded by the Fushi, and
his wife, who were fish tailed beings,

716
01:09:40.600 --> 01:09:47.239
and all over the world we have
this legend that civilization as as we

717
01:09:47.359 --> 01:09:51.760
would consider it as being civilization,
that is, you know, people growing

718
01:09:51.840 --> 01:10:00.760
crops and having cities and writing books
and all that are commenced um with the

719
01:10:00.920 --> 01:10:09.279
teachers being the sort of fish people. And now were they like sort of

720
01:10:09.439 --> 01:10:12.680
dolphin types, you know, they
couldn't walk. They had to go about

721
01:10:12.760 --> 01:10:15.079
in sort of cart type things because
they didn't have legs, you see.

722
01:10:16.319 --> 01:10:26.319
And fascinating there's even a very obscure
tradition among the very ancient Greek mythological lore

723
01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:32.159
that Zeus himself didn't have legs,
that they were joined together. And so

724
01:10:32.479 --> 01:10:39.159
this permeates everywhere. And so because
I like doing research into ancient cultures,

725
01:10:40.319 --> 01:10:44.800
and I did study a lot of
that at university and I've never stopped studying

726
01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:50.399
it, I was able to trace
that these traditions of the fish people founding

727
01:10:50.800 --> 01:10:59.680
earth. Civilization was all over the
place and many countries, and now it

728
01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:04.199
have reached China from the Babylonians because
we do know when my friend Joseph Needham

729
01:11:04.239 --> 01:11:08.399
worked out because I did a book
with him, a History of Chinese Science.

730
01:11:10.039 --> 01:11:15.720
Then the Chinese astronomy was based upon
Babylonian astronomy. The tradition of the

731
01:11:16.199 --> 01:11:20.079
fish hero could have come from the
Babylonians to China. I want to ask

732
01:11:20.159 --> 01:11:28.960
you, though, Robert, when
we talk about ancient contact with alien beings,

733
01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:33.399
you have to look at zachary As
sitchens book and the Annachi. He

734
01:11:33.640 --> 01:11:40.479
gives dates of four hundred thousand years
ago quite regularly based on what he believes

735
01:11:40.520 --> 01:11:47.600
are clay tablet the interpretations. You
don't actually say that in your no.

736
01:11:47.840 --> 01:11:53.760
I don't go along with Sitchens dates. Also have a very strong dislike for

737
01:11:53.880 --> 01:11:58.520
Sitchen. He's a very unpleasant man. I don't know if he's still alive.

738
01:11:59.079 --> 01:12:02.159
He passed away several years ago.
Well, good riddens, but you

739
01:12:02.239 --> 01:12:06.920
know he was very unpleasant man,
really really really unpleasant man. Um and

740
01:12:08.520 --> 01:12:15.039
um. He sort of went way
way out beyond the pale. He did

741
01:12:15.159 --> 01:12:17.239
seem to be able to read the
table's because he was a bit scholar.

742
01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:24.399
And I guess my question to you, though, is if if you're not

743
01:12:24.600 --> 01:12:29.319
giving, you're saying the five thousand
was the publisher's subtitle for your cover,

744
01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:33.000
what what would you say? And
we're talking about very ancient cultures. You're

745
01:12:33.000 --> 01:12:40.840
talking about Babylonians and Sumerians and ancient
dynastic Egyptians that can go back, you

746
01:12:40.960 --> 01:12:45.039
know, five to seven eight thousand
years. If you were to give a

747
01:12:45.199 --> 01:12:48.960
date for this contact, can you
suggest a period of time? Is this

748
01:12:49.079 --> 01:12:57.319
an earlier epic prior to written history. It's very difficult to be precise about

749
01:12:57.359 --> 01:13:03.640
this um because it's so little certainty
about some of the standard chronologies. Anyway,

750
01:13:05.199 --> 01:13:11.239
I was part of an archaeometric team
that did work in Egypt with the

751
01:13:11.319 --> 01:13:18.479
permission of the Ministry of Antiquities,
and we redated various monuments, and that

752
01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:23.720
we discovered, for instance, that
the Pyramids were older than it's conventional,

753
01:13:24.319 --> 01:13:30.640
but maybe like a thousand years older, that kind of time. I don't

754
01:13:30.720 --> 01:13:38.760
go along with the dates the people
like Shock insist on. And I've never

755
01:13:38.880 --> 01:13:45.359
met Shock. He's he's published some
bad stuff about me, which I didn't

756
01:13:45.399 --> 01:13:48.000
take to be very friendly, considering
we didn't even know each other. In

757
01:13:48.119 --> 01:13:53.159
some attacks on me all to do
with this kind of subject of dating.

758
01:13:53.720 --> 01:14:00.560
And I knew both All and Graham
Hancock very well, and I didn't like

759
01:14:00.760 --> 01:14:06.680
West, but I was the first
person actually ever to publish West strangely enough,

760
01:14:06.800 --> 01:14:12.199
because when I was editing that magazine
that I mentioned when we were talking

761
01:14:12.279 --> 01:14:17.760
privately earlier about Fred Hoyle, back
in nineteen seventy nine, I published an

762
01:14:17.920 --> 01:14:27.079
article by this guy called West about
the Sphinx, which I myself didn't believe

763
01:14:27.199 --> 01:14:30.520
in. I didn't support it,
but you know, I'm not the sort

764
01:14:30.520 --> 01:14:35.319
of person who, as a magazine
editor, only would publish things that I

765
01:14:35.439 --> 01:14:40.039
think are right. So I thought, let everybody say their thing, and

766
01:14:40.960 --> 01:14:45.880
so I actually got West going,
and then he, on the basis of

767
01:14:45.960 --> 01:14:49.680
that, he got his book together. But of course he was quite bitter

768
01:14:49.720 --> 01:14:54.079
about that, because he didn't like
the fact he would never admit to anybody

769
01:14:54.159 --> 01:14:59.079
that I had given him his first
saying print about the Sphinx, especially because

770
01:14:59.079 --> 01:15:03.039
I disagreed with him about the Sphinx. And I think I know more about

771
01:15:03.079 --> 01:15:08.880
the Sphinx than he ever did.
I've written an entire book that on the

772
01:15:08.960 --> 01:15:13.239
Sphinx, and I've been inside the
Sphinx which has a tone inside, believe

773
01:15:13.239 --> 01:15:15.680
it or not, and I've been
in it, and I photographed it,

774
01:15:15.279 --> 01:15:23.319
and I found because I'm good at
historical research and textual research, I was

775
01:15:23.399 --> 01:15:29.880
able to find I went in all
the accounts of travelers visiting Egypt over the

776
01:15:29.960 --> 01:15:35.479
centuries. I was able to discover
continual reports of a chamber underneath the sphinx

777
01:15:36.159 --> 01:15:40.960
that had actually been seen and visited
by people over the course of three hundred

778
01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:45.760
and fifty years. I published all
these and they were in several languages,

779
01:15:45.920 --> 01:15:50.760
English, French, and German.
I translated. I translated the German,

780
01:15:50.880 --> 01:15:56.680
my wife translated the French. And
so, in fact, as an appendix

781
01:15:56.760 --> 01:16:01.319
to the book we actually did together, we have everything that was ever published

782
01:16:01.359 --> 01:16:06.000
about the Sphinx from plenty in ancient
Roman times up till eighteen thirty seven,

783
01:16:06.079 --> 01:16:10.760
where we had to stop because it
became too voluminous, and all of that

784
01:16:10.960 --> 01:16:14.680
is there, all translated into English, and it saves one hundred trips to

785
01:16:14.720 --> 01:16:18.399
any library like the British Library or
the Library of Congress, because it's all

786
01:16:18.479 --> 01:16:25.720
there. And so I was able
to report that there wasn't data chamber under

787
01:16:25.760 --> 01:16:30.720
the sphinx directly under its stomach,
as it were under its midriff, which

788
01:16:30.880 --> 01:16:35.359
was a late chamber intruded because it
was described as having hieroglyphs on the walls.

789
01:16:35.600 --> 01:16:42.880
And you know, in the before
the Fifth Dynasty there were no hieroglyphs

790
01:16:42.920 --> 01:16:45.319
on the walls of structures, so
it was intruded. And I'm sure it

791
01:16:45.399 --> 01:16:51.640
was intruded during the site period or
twenty six as a tomb, but it

792
01:16:51.840 --> 01:16:58.880
was sealed up and filled with concrete
in nineteen twenty six. But a Frenchman

793
01:16:59.039 --> 01:17:02.159
hired by the Egyptian government to tidy
up the sphinx for tourism, and that

794
01:17:02.279 --> 01:17:05.439
was the end of that, and
he blocked the tunnel because there was a

795
01:17:05.520 --> 01:17:09.720
tunnel that went from the back all
the way to the front where the priest

796
01:17:09.840 --> 01:17:13.880
could crawl through and speak through the
mouth of the sphinx as an article.

797
01:17:14.119 --> 01:17:18.479
The people would think it was the
sphinx speaking and fascinating. Yeah, but

798
01:17:18.600 --> 01:17:21.840
I couldn't crawl very far up that
tunnel because it's in danger of collapse.

799
01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:27.840
And the whole thing's a bit of
a mess in terms of the interior,

800
01:17:27.920 --> 01:17:30.760
all the spins. I'm curious,
though, Robert, when we talk about

801
01:17:30.880 --> 01:17:38.119
the first contact and you're saying,
basically, you can't there isn't a date

802
01:17:38.239 --> 01:17:45.960
because it's so universally reference and you're
saying, these different ancient cultures talk about

803
01:17:45.760 --> 01:17:53.800
beings with fish tails, and there
are sculptures of fishmen, and there's illustrations,

804
01:17:53.840 --> 01:17:58.000
and there's murals and so forth and
so on. The Dogan are just

805
01:17:58.319 --> 01:18:03.520
one people who had had, according
to you, interactions with these with these

806
01:18:03.640 --> 01:18:08.680
beans. Is that your suggestion over
history? Well, the only reason we

807
01:18:08.800 --> 01:18:13.840
know this is because the French anthropologists
who published these accounts in the nineteen fifties,

808
01:18:15.079 --> 01:18:19.600
and I met the one, the
surviving one, Madame jem and Dietro

809
01:18:19.720 --> 01:18:28.000
then Um, who was very much
a ground dam. They got the confidence

810
01:18:28.039 --> 01:18:34.000
of the dug On priests who told
them all this the initiatory secrets about Sirious.

811
01:18:35.960 --> 01:18:40.600
There's plenty of other stuff to do
with the mythology that was more widely

812
01:18:40.720 --> 01:18:45.600
known. But you see, nobody
like that got the confidence of the Bambar.

813
01:18:45.760 --> 01:18:49.640
Although we know that the Bambara and
the Bozone and the Minnianka all had

814
01:18:49.720 --> 01:18:57.079
the same tradition. But the tribe
that opened up about it in great detail

815
01:18:57.239 --> 01:19:01.079
and drew all the pictures in the
sand, because that's how they depict things,

816
01:19:01.159 --> 01:19:04.399
which is the ancient Greek technique.
Actually, that's what Plato used to

817
01:19:04.479 --> 01:19:10.079
do with his stick. He drove
his geometrical diagrams in the sand. That's

818
01:19:10.159 --> 01:19:14.199
what everybody used to do in the
old days because they didn't have paper,

819
01:19:14.279 --> 01:19:18.720
you see, And they're the only
ones who opened up. So that's the

820
01:19:18.800 --> 01:19:25.199
reason why we only know about the
details from the Dogon, but the other

821
01:19:25.239 --> 01:19:29.479
tribes have that. But then they
ain't talking, and most of the priests

822
01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:32.319
have died out, and it's a
tremendous pressure for them all to convert to

823
01:19:32.439 --> 01:19:38.119
Islam now in Mali. Yeah,
that's interesting that you mentioned that for the

824
01:19:38.199 --> 01:19:42.520
most part, there are no written
records of this. It's an oral tradition.

825
01:19:43.279 --> 01:19:48.800
And in the book you actually show
these sand drawings that represent serious and

826
01:19:49.000 --> 01:19:55.760
the constellations associated with the serious A
and B, and this is this was

827
01:19:55.840 --> 01:20:01.199
handed down. Are there mathematical fairways? There's a lot of physical evidence,

828
01:20:01.880 --> 01:20:05.880
m oh of all of this that
goes back hundreds of years. For instance,

829
01:20:05.960 --> 01:20:12.960
they they are very big on being
blacksmiths and they make things out of

830
01:20:13.039 --> 01:20:18.279
iron statues and things, and there
are iron statues depicting the Normo that are

831
01:20:18.359 --> 01:20:23.199
three hundred and fifty four hundred years
old. And there's a lot of evidence

832
01:20:23.239 --> 01:20:28.760
in the cave paintings. And because
they live at the foot of a bas

833
01:20:29.359 --> 01:20:35.439
cliff and full of caves and it's
all full of sacred paintings and objects and

834
01:20:35.800 --> 01:20:43.600
ancient statues and things depicting all of
this. So the physical evidence for these

835
01:20:43.680 --> 01:20:47.319
traditions, it's hundreds of years old. Okay. That leads to my next

836
01:20:47.399 --> 01:20:53.000
question. And I think if I
remember correctly and I didn't see all of

837
01:20:53.079 --> 01:20:59.199
the new addition, are there images
of their craft, of the normal craft

838
01:20:59.319 --> 01:21:04.800
that actually landed on earth. Yeah, the the Dogon do pictures, none

839
01:21:04.840 --> 01:21:10.640
of the craft itself, but of
what it seemed like to them when they

840
01:21:10.760 --> 01:21:15.000
landed. It was a swirly motion
that stirred up all the dust and fire

841
01:21:15.079 --> 01:21:19.600
and flames coming out of the bottom. There is one picture that they did

842
01:21:19.720 --> 01:21:27.600
which is basically like a modern rocket
that you've seal Cape Canavel today. Yeah.

843
01:21:27.800 --> 01:21:30.840
Yeah, it looked just like a
rocket with a nose cone and everything.

844
01:21:31.079 --> 01:21:36.359
Um, And they say that that
is one. But they are very

845
01:21:36.399 --> 01:21:44.000
impressed by the noise and the dust
and the flames of when when the Namo

846
01:21:44.199 --> 01:21:49.680
would land. And then to pick
this with many pictures, the crude pictures

847
01:21:50.039 --> 01:21:55.239
in the sand, but you get
the idea, and then they elaborate on

848
01:21:55.319 --> 01:22:02.199
it by talking about the picture and
that's it. So the normal represent themselves

849
01:22:02.279 --> 01:22:09.960
obviously as the beans from another planetary
system light years away from Earth. Do

850
01:22:10.199 --> 01:22:15.039
they actually say we are the creator
gods? Oh no, no, no,

851
01:22:15.119 --> 01:22:21.920
no, okay, Well they call
themselves the the well I'm trying to

852
01:22:23.000 --> 01:22:29.640
think of the French word that there
is used. Um, the like the

853
01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:32.880
representatives. Oh they're not, they
don't. They don't call the claim to

854
01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:36.079
be gods at all. No,
no, no, no, they're absolutely

855
01:22:36.159 --> 01:22:41.199
not. No. They they say
they're just the messengers, and um,

856
01:22:42.399 --> 01:22:47.199
they work for the god, you
know. So they're uh, God is

857
01:22:47.239 --> 01:22:55.239
called amah am m a right,
and the god of um ancient Egypt at

858
01:22:55.279 --> 01:23:00.239
the oasis. So see what was
amon am U n Amon? It's the

859
01:23:00.319 --> 01:23:08.560
same god and there is this one
god. Okay, so the almost never

860
01:23:08.680 --> 01:23:13.199
claim to the gods. No,
okay. But but in this depiction that

861
01:23:13.520 --> 01:23:25.199
is so lively and factual, does
this give us more validity for the other

862
01:23:25.359 --> 01:23:30.640
stories that the Babylonians, the Chinese, the Greeks and others present to us

863
01:23:30.720 --> 01:23:36.279
of fish men and women. Is
this is the Dolgan version in your eyes,

864
01:23:36.920 --> 01:23:44.840
the real solid evidence of alien interactions
with Earth leans Well, you know,

865
01:23:44.920 --> 01:23:49.039
I've given a lot more thought to
all this since the last edition was

866
01:23:49.119 --> 01:23:56.520
published years ago, in back in
nineteen ninety eight. Um, it's very

867
01:23:56.600 --> 01:24:01.239
difficult to know because some of the
depictions show sort of snaky type tails and

868
01:24:01.439 --> 01:24:10.600
some show thin tails, and they're
very ambiguous, because these are beings that

869
01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:21.119
have some sort of strange wigly appantages. But it's very ambiguous as to precisely

870
01:24:21.239 --> 01:24:27.560
what's really going on. And so
I've come to think more recently that it

871
01:24:27.680 --> 01:24:33.199
might be a kepler pod being that
is, the octopus family, but a

872
01:24:33.319 --> 01:24:41.039
much more highly evolved octopus. Arthur
Clark once said to me that he thought

873
01:24:41.159 --> 01:24:47.520
that on planets throughout the universe that
the predominant life forms would turn out to

874
01:24:47.560 --> 01:24:55.479
be octopoid, and that two legged
land dwelling creatures like ourselves would be very

875
01:24:55.560 --> 01:25:00.079
much in the minority. And that
was his opinion and stuck in my mind.

876
01:25:00.880 --> 01:25:08.119
And um, it may be that
the the nomos were really sort of

877
01:25:08.199 --> 01:25:15.479
octopoids and that this was but people
couldn't quite grasp that. You know,

878
01:25:15.520 --> 01:25:19.399
if you've got eight legs, it's
a little bit and you didn't see it

879
01:25:19.520 --> 01:25:25.560
yourself, but your great great great
great grandfather was trying to before you see

880
01:25:25.600 --> 01:25:29.279
that they got a bit mixed up
about exactly what was going on below the

881
01:25:29.319 --> 01:25:34.760
waist um. And it could have
been that they were like dolphins with fish

882
01:25:34.840 --> 01:25:39.600
tails. But dolphins, says,
you know, our mammals, they're not

883
01:25:39.800 --> 01:25:45.560
fish. And in the same history
of whales, and they could be um

884
01:25:46.399 --> 01:25:53.760
amphibious, which dolphins and whales are. They breathe air, They don't have

885
01:25:53.960 --> 01:26:00.880
gills and um. So there's there's
no suggestion from anybody that we're literally talking

886
01:26:00.920 --> 01:26:05.479
about fish. When I call them
fish people, I'm speaking in slang,

887
01:26:05.720 --> 01:26:12.760
you know. But you're describing their
physicality. Well, they weren't like fish

888
01:26:13.119 --> 01:26:15.600
from the head up or from the
waist up. You know, they've got

889
01:26:15.840 --> 01:26:24.720
ahead and and so on. They're
not fish like, except they're lower extremities.

890
01:26:26.119 --> 01:26:32.239
Everybody has trouble in ancient times and
in the tribes descriptions describing what the

891
01:26:32.359 --> 01:26:39.560
lower extremities precisely were like. Um, except to say that they're maritime,

892
01:26:39.760 --> 01:26:45.079
in other words, that these were
sea dwelling creatures who were not land based

893
01:26:45.199 --> 01:26:53.199
creatures. They might have breathed air
or they might not. This is thousands

894
01:26:53.239 --> 01:26:59.439
of years ago. Yeah, we
have these multiple attempts to describe them,

895
01:27:00.079 --> 01:27:02.680
which are all very similar to one
another, but vary in the details of

896
01:27:02.760 --> 01:27:06.840
what the lower extremities actually looked like. Bearing in mind, none of the

897
01:27:08.439 --> 01:27:14.399
versions that have survived are the original
accounts, and everything got garbled over the

898
01:27:14.520 --> 01:27:20.000
millennia. We're gonna take another short
commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify

899
01:27:20.079 --> 01:27:27.319
themselves, and we will quickly return
with my guests today, Robert Temple discussing

900
01:27:27.439 --> 01:28:13.600
his international bestseller, The Serious Mystery. We'll be right back. My guest

901
01:28:13.600 --> 01:28:17.079
today is Robert Temple. He's coming
to us from England and he is discussing

902
01:28:17.960 --> 01:28:25.479
is international bestseller from nineteen seventy six, The Serious Mystery, the story of

903
01:28:25.640 --> 01:28:31.479
a story of a African tribe and
their connection to off world beings known as

904
01:28:31.560 --> 01:28:40.760
the Nomo from the star constellation.
Serious. So you're you're saying that the

905
01:28:41.079 --> 01:28:45.840
original texts or whatever have been transcribed
over the decade, over the century.

906
01:28:46.319 --> 01:28:50.439
It would have originally been oral traditions
on oral traditions. Okay, this is

907
01:28:50.760 --> 01:28:56.880
this is all happening before there were
written records, and so the written when

908
01:28:56.920 --> 01:29:00.920
the written records came along, they
wrote down all the stuff that like on

909
01:29:00.000 --> 01:29:05.119
the clay tablets that the Sumerians and
Babylonians had, and later they were succeeded

910
01:29:05.159 --> 01:29:12.399
by the Assyrians, and then the
Philistines took off this tradition. And because

911
01:29:12.479 --> 01:29:24.159
their chief God was called Dagon dag
O n and Um that was the he

912
01:29:24.399 --> 01:29:31.600
was sometimes equated with the god l
of the Canaanites. Most people don't realize

913
01:29:31.680 --> 01:29:40.520
that the famous Temple of Jerusalem,
the foundations apparently at the base of the

914
01:29:40.600 --> 01:29:45.319
East Wall, are still the original
Canaanite blocks. When David, who was

915
01:29:45.399 --> 01:29:50.680
the king of the Jews, who
conquered Jerusalem about eight hundred BC or whenever

916
01:29:50.800 --> 01:30:00.640
it was um, they they took
over the Temple of l which which by

917
01:30:00.720 --> 01:30:05.319
the way, El and Elohim which
is the plural of l r in the

918
01:30:05.439 --> 01:30:09.199
Bible, as the name of God, one of the names of God.

919
01:30:10.840 --> 01:30:16.039
This is before Yawa became popular.
Um that was the the Canaanite name.

920
01:30:16.279 --> 01:30:20.920
And the Canaanites didn't all die the
minute the Jews came. The Canaanites and

921
01:30:20.920 --> 01:30:27.039
the Jews need to married. This
is before the Jews were so exclusive,

922
01:30:27.199 --> 01:30:34.199
and so the Jews who were actually
from Jerusalem were all descended from the Canaanites

923
01:30:34.239 --> 01:30:41.119
as well, and there they had
this um amphibious god Dagon, and that

924
01:30:41.359 --> 01:30:45.079
was the temple of Dagon. I
say Dagon, that's an English pronunciation,

925
01:30:45.159 --> 01:30:53.680
it would be Dogon and Um.
The temple was then converted to the Jewish

926
01:30:53.720 --> 01:30:57.520
religion, and then of course that
was destroyed by the Romans, as we

927
01:30:57.680 --> 01:31:00.279
know, which did not go down
very well with the Jews, who were

928
01:31:00.319 --> 01:31:05.399
then exiled, and the terrible story
of the persecution of the Jews commenced and

929
01:31:08.239 --> 01:31:11.960
continued. It is still going on
today as we know, because anti Semitism

930
01:31:12.119 --> 01:31:19.079
is everywhere. And but their temple, which is the source of such dispute

931
01:31:19.159 --> 01:31:25.199
between Judaism and Islam at the moment, and indeed Christianity was wants to look

932
01:31:25.279 --> 01:31:30.359
into. It's really on the site
of and it has the foundation blocks of

933
01:31:30.600 --> 01:31:36.279
a Canaanite temple, which was before
the Jews arrived. The Jews then became

934
01:31:36.439 --> 01:31:41.800
mixed, so that the Canaanites and
the Jews became the same people. But

935
01:31:41.960 --> 01:31:45.000
then some of the Jews went above
Judea up north, and they called themselves

936
01:31:45.079 --> 01:31:53.720
the Samaritans. And they have slightly
very variant versions of the Torah and the

937
01:31:53.880 --> 01:32:01.760
story of ancient Judaism before it became
made into an official religion in the second

938
01:32:01.800 --> 01:32:09.720
century a d and codified in what
they call a mishnah. It was full

939
01:32:09.760 --> 01:32:14.680
of all different kinds of sects who
disagreed with one another. And ancient ancient

940
01:32:14.840 --> 01:32:21.199
Egypt at the time of Jesus two
thousand years ago, contained a million Jews.

941
01:32:23.760 --> 01:32:27.000
It was one third of the population
of Egypt were Jews. And they

942
01:32:27.079 --> 01:32:30.840
had a temple, a Jewish temple
in Egypt, which was larger than the

943
01:32:30.960 --> 01:32:35.159
Jerusalem Temple. And they looked upon
the Jerusalem Jews as country cousins who were

944
01:32:35.199 --> 01:32:42.560
a bit simple, because the Egyptian
Jews thought of themselves as very superior to

945
01:32:42.680 --> 01:32:46.880
those country cousins back in Jerusalem,
whom they looked down upon. But I

946
01:32:46.920 --> 01:32:53.159
don't want to go into all that. Yeah, let's get into the details

947
01:32:53.239 --> 01:32:59.239
of the Serious constellation, which I
think is completely fascinating, especially in the

948
01:32:59.399 --> 01:33:05.000
light of nothing being written down this
complex. Uh, I mean serious A

949
01:33:05.159 --> 01:33:11.840
and B is light years from Earth
eight point six light years. Yeah.

950
01:33:12.279 --> 01:33:18.560
Um, how was this information transferred
to them? Obviously at some point it

951
01:33:18.680 --> 01:33:26.640
was written down, whether any like
the Ten Commandments scratched on on the walls,

952
01:33:28.560 --> 01:33:32.239
details of where they were. This
was what this this data that you

953
01:33:32.359 --> 01:33:39.560
collected in the Anthropologist ultimately where the
front runners on. This is very very

954
01:33:39.600 --> 01:33:47.560
interesting talk about the conveyance of this
data to the Dogon people. Well,

955
01:33:47.640 --> 01:33:54.520
of course all the Babylonian stuff would
not have reached the Dogon people because that

956
01:33:54.760 --> 01:34:00.039
was in the Near East, and
um, no Dogon went to Babylon,

957
01:34:00.800 --> 01:34:08.119
so that there are survivals of the
same original information which popped up in different

958
01:34:08.119 --> 01:34:16.039
places. So the Babylonian well originally
Presumerian, then Babylonian, and then the

959
01:34:16.159 --> 01:34:23.960
Assyrian. Texts were written on clay
tablets in a script which is called cuneiform,

960
01:34:24.800 --> 01:34:28.159
which comes from the Latin word cuneus, which means wedge, because they

961
01:34:28.239 --> 01:34:31.640
had wedges they pressed into the clay
and it was wedge shape letters and that's

962
01:34:31.680 --> 01:34:40.000
what it's called Kuneiform. Um.
That and they have not just descriptions,

963
01:34:40.039 --> 01:34:45.600
but they have lots of pictures on
the walls of the Babylonian temples of these

964
01:34:45.760 --> 01:34:53.720
beings and of priests wearing costumes with
fishheads right um as part of their ceremonies.

965
01:34:54.279 --> 01:35:01.039
And um it's thought that the bishop's
miter of Christianity comes from the us

966
01:35:01.359 --> 01:35:09.640
Babylonian fish god's head fish head that
was worn by the Babylonian priests because it

967
01:35:09.720 --> 01:35:15.520
looks exactly like a minor worn by
a Christian or a Catholic bishop. I

968
01:35:15.640 --> 01:35:20.680
mean, I mentioned that as a
rather sort of surprising detail. But this

969
01:35:20.920 --> 01:35:26.399
is all separate from the Dogon because
it's merely the information willing up in that

970
01:35:26.560 --> 01:35:30.600
part of the world. The Dogon
tradition would have been of Egyptian origin before

971
01:35:32.199 --> 01:35:38.479
the Egyptian religion became what it is
that we now know. So I don't

972
01:35:38.520 --> 01:35:43.720
believe that any visitation could possibly have
occurred later than three thousand BC, and

973
01:35:43.840 --> 01:35:48.239
that would be impossible. But how
much before that it occurred, I don't

974
01:35:48.279 --> 01:35:51.720
know. It may be that this
is where the five thousand years comes from.

975
01:35:53.199 --> 01:35:59.159
Okay, that's like a sort of
upper limit. It couldn't be any

976
01:35:59.319 --> 01:36:04.079
later than five thousand years ago.
It could be much earlier. And this

977
01:36:04.319 --> 01:36:11.560
becomes very murky, and a lot
of the evidence then becomes physical evidence rather

978
01:36:11.640 --> 01:36:16.039
than textual, because you have to
study things like the pyramids, how did

979
01:36:16.119 --> 01:36:21.119
those gigantic things get built? And
uh, And then even with very early

980
01:36:21.239 --> 01:36:28.279
cultures from four thousand BC along the
Nile, there's a culture that did fantastic

981
01:36:28.359 --> 01:36:39.680
ceramics um paper thin um never equaled
until a similar ceramics were developed by the

982
01:36:39.800 --> 01:36:45.960
Chinese during the Sung dynasty, with
hence the Sung vases and Sung bowls all

983
01:36:45.000 --> 01:36:50.479
the most prized of all because you
can see through them. There's all kinds

984
01:36:50.520 --> 01:36:56.279
of evidence scattered here and there in
fragments, and you try to piece this

985
01:36:56.399 --> 01:36:59.800
together and come up with a picture. But it's not easy, and it's

986
01:37:00.119 --> 01:37:05.399
really challenged because you're trying to put
things together to to cohere into some kind

987
01:37:05.439 --> 01:37:14.119
of Now, what you're saying is
all these unusual anomalous ceramics, buildings,

988
01:37:14.399 --> 01:37:23.439
pyramids, and so forth may have
their origins from off world beings. Well,

989
01:37:23.479 --> 01:37:27.920
it's not impossible, because they pop
up and then they disappear, and

990
01:37:28.039 --> 01:37:32.199
then there's no explanation for them,
and how did they do this? There

991
01:37:32.239 --> 01:37:42.960
are many many technological anomalies and puzzles
from antiquity, And to give you one

992
01:37:43.039 --> 01:37:46.399
example, I decided to focus on
ancient optics and wrote a book about that

993
01:37:46.600 --> 01:37:53.640
called The Crystal Sun. So m
ask any archaeologists before I did that?

994
01:37:55.399 --> 01:37:58.439
Did they have lenses in antiquity?
Oh no, no, oh no,

995
01:37:58.640 --> 01:38:02.239
no such thing as lens certainly not. So I started my research in my

996
01:38:02.560 --> 01:38:06.920
troublesome way that I do, always
upsetting apple carts, and I went round

997
01:38:06.960 --> 01:38:14.439
the museums in different countries and I
found that they had lots of ancient lenses,

998
01:38:15.079 --> 01:38:18.840
most of them in the basements,
and I photographed them and I measured

999
01:38:18.880 --> 01:38:23.439
them and studied them. And I
was an associate of the College of Optometrists,

1000
01:38:23.520 --> 01:38:25.800
and I knew what I was doing, I knew how to do this.

1001
01:38:25.960 --> 01:38:30.560
It was all professionally done, and
I did my reports with all the

1002
01:38:30.640 --> 01:38:40.199
measurements and the focal power and all
that, and I found over four hundred

1003
01:38:41.239 --> 01:38:45.079
ancient lenses. Now, the early
ones were all carved out of rock crystal,

1004
01:38:45.479 --> 01:38:48.880
but by Roman times they mass produced
them out of glass because they had

1005
01:38:48.920 --> 01:38:54.000
the factories to that, and so
you get a lot of old glass ones,

1006
01:38:54.720 --> 01:39:00.439
but the crystal ones are the more
interesting. And I was to trace

1007
01:39:00.520 --> 01:39:08.880
them back in different cultures and astonishing
feats could be achieved with these lenses.

1008
01:39:08.920 --> 01:39:15.000
For instance, the notorious Layard lens, which was found as an Assyrian one.

1009
01:39:16.119 --> 01:39:20.560
I think that was about eight hundred
BC a thousand BC, fairly recent,

1010
01:39:21.399 --> 01:39:28.039
and it was carved of crystal.
And I was able to prove that

1011
01:39:28.199 --> 01:39:34.479
It was a card for a very
specific case of a stigmatism that an individual

1012
01:39:34.640 --> 01:39:43.079
person, obviously a king, had
a stigmatism, and this this lens corrected

1013
01:39:43.159 --> 01:39:50.720
his site as astigmatic correction. Lenses
are a rather complicated torotally ground. They're

1014
01:39:50.760 --> 01:39:55.560
not simple to make, and you
got to know what you're doing. One

1015
01:39:55.640 --> 01:39:59.560
assumes that they did this by trial
and error, because we One assumes that

1016
01:39:59.600 --> 01:40:06.359
they didn't have a modern science of
how to correct the stigmatism, and they

1017
01:40:06.479 --> 01:40:10.159
did it over and over until they
got it right. I mean, that's

1018
01:40:10.239 --> 01:40:16.199
my assumption. But this lens exists
in the British Museum and I did a

1019
01:40:16.239 --> 01:40:21.159
whole chapter just on that lens because
it was so famous. And indeed it

1020
01:40:21.359 --> 01:40:28.279
was also publicized by Eric fandanic And
as coming from space and so on.

1021
01:40:29.800 --> 01:40:35.079
Of course, everything with Eric fandanic
and everything comes from space alien. So

1022
01:40:35.439 --> 01:40:41.039
well, he's promoting his books and
he believes all this stuff. I'm sure,

1023
01:40:41.159 --> 01:40:45.920
but he's far too extreme, and
you know, everything's uh, you

1024
01:40:45.000 --> 01:40:50.880
know, UFOs are are coming from
God and all this stuff. He made

1025
01:40:51.000 --> 01:40:57.800
life very difficult for serious discussion about
all this stuff because everybody just says,

1026
01:40:57.960 --> 01:41:01.760
oh, Eric fand Anakin, it's
all nonsense. You see, and anybody

1027
01:41:01.800 --> 01:41:08.199
who tries to discuss these things in
a more rational fashion, um is um

1028
01:41:09.520 --> 01:41:15.279
um. It's classed with Eric Fandanigan
And yeah, I've met Fandangan. He

1029
01:41:15.399 --> 01:41:21.560
sought me out. So I want
to I want to complete this discussion on

1030
01:41:21.640 --> 01:41:30.159
this Normo. Do they say to
the the dogon people were coming back at

1031
01:41:30.239 --> 01:41:33.239
some point We're gonna be oh,
yes, yes, yes, that's right,

1032
01:41:33.600 --> 01:41:39.880
Yes, that's right. Um,
you're absolutely right to mention that the

1033
01:41:40.039 --> 01:41:46.640
Dogon claim that the nomo will return. First of all, the Normo admit

1034
01:41:46.760 --> 01:41:50.560
that they can't see the star.
They admit they've never met a noamo.

1035
01:41:51.399 --> 01:41:57.119
But the tradition says that the nomo
will return and when that happens, it

1036
01:41:57.199 --> 01:42:01.359
will be will be called the day
of the fish, the day of the

1037
01:42:01.479 --> 01:42:09.159
fish. Yeah, well this is
the French translation of the dogone. Yeah,

1038
01:42:10.319 --> 01:42:13.760
you could call it the day of
the sea creature. And is this

1039
01:42:14.079 --> 01:42:20.520
is this protel a certain geological change
or really they will arrive from this guy,

1040
01:42:20.960 --> 01:42:26.800
They will arrive from the sky.
Let's let's not say fish because we

1041
01:42:26.960 --> 01:42:30.600
shouldn't be saying fish because they're not
fish. The thing is that we could

1042
01:42:30.640 --> 01:42:35.960
call it the day of the sea
creature when they will return and things are

1043
01:42:36.000 --> 01:42:41.840
going to shape up according to the
way they see things. Apparently, you

1044
01:42:41.920 --> 01:42:44.439
know, they're going to do what
they're going to do, whatever that is.

1045
01:42:45.119 --> 01:42:47.560
But they're not going to blow us
all up or anything. Yeah,

1046
01:42:48.000 --> 01:42:50.079
they're going to come back and it
will be the day of the fish.

1047
01:42:50.520 --> 01:42:55.000
Oh yes, they go on to
say, and they will rule from the

1048
01:42:55.119 --> 01:42:58.640
waters, in other words, from
the sea, where they will continue to

1049
01:42:58.760 --> 01:43:03.319
reside. They will impose regulations upon
the earth. M They're not going to

1050
01:43:03.399 --> 01:43:09.720
kill it everybody. They're going to
um, shake up the political systems.

1051
01:43:10.039 --> 01:43:15.600
Wow, that's a that's a fascinating
thought. Uh. I wonder if the

1052
01:43:16.479 --> 01:43:21.880
say, you know, and who
knows a lot of people expect something like

1053
01:43:23.039 --> 01:43:30.239
this. So I'm I'm the messenger
again, of course, a people's traditions.

1054
01:43:30.319 --> 01:43:34.399
I'm trying to inform the public.
I'm not preaching. I'm not insisting

1055
01:43:34.479 --> 01:43:40.399
that anybody has to believe anything I
say. Um, I don't care if

1056
01:43:40.479 --> 01:43:45.239
they If they if they just just
believe everything I say, it doesn't it

1057
01:43:45.520 --> 01:43:48.199
infect me because, um, you
know, I'm not an egotist, and

1058
01:43:48.319 --> 01:43:51.560
I don't get upset if people say
you're talking a little nonsense. Well,

1059
01:43:51.720 --> 01:43:55.680
you know, okay, they think
I'm talking a little nonsense. That's their

1060
01:43:55.720 --> 01:44:01.800
opinion. I'm actually very tolerant of
everybody's a unions. I may completely disagree

1061
01:44:01.880 --> 01:44:09.000
with them, but I'm I tolerate
and respect their views, and I understand

1062
01:44:09.079 --> 01:44:14.319
why they think that. Yeah,
people have different types of personalities and different

1063
01:44:14.359 --> 01:44:19.399
backgrounds, and they have their views
and all the plurality. No, I

1064
01:44:19.840 --> 01:44:25.760
think you know, the book obviously
landed on the world stage, and it

1065
01:44:26.039 --> 01:44:31.199
was an international bestseller. People are
still referring to it. Obviously, the

1066
01:44:33.119 --> 01:44:42.359
intelligence agencies were alerted just because of
your background. What does this say to

1067
01:44:42.479 --> 01:44:51.600
you about Earth Earth's ability to accept
off world contact if our agencies like the

1068
01:44:51.640 --> 01:44:56.840
CIA, the Department of Defense here
in the United States, NASA, a

1069
01:44:56.960 --> 01:45:00.960
European space agency, just can't seem
to get over the themselves when it comes

1070
01:45:00.039 --> 01:45:06.439
to disclosure. Well, I know, I agree that there's a big disclosure

1071
01:45:06.600 --> 01:45:14.159
problem, and I think that they
have dissension amongst themselves because I've met people

1072
01:45:14.720 --> 01:45:21.479
from NASA who are very, very
sensible and and but you know that just

1073
01:45:21.640 --> 01:45:28.800
they don't run NASA. This is
the problem. And I've known a lot

1074
01:45:28.880 --> 01:45:32.399
of really, really good people in
that kind of area. But the thing

1075
01:45:32.560 --> 01:45:36.800
is that it's who's in charge that's
the problem, and there's a lot of

1076
01:45:38.119 --> 01:45:43.840
dissension from below or from middle levels. The trouble is that the people who

1077
01:45:44.039 --> 01:45:50.199
actually run things are political appointees and
they have political agendas. Well, I

1078
01:45:50.319 --> 01:45:56.960
suppose that they should, because Americas
a democracy, after all, and these

1079
01:45:57.039 --> 01:46:05.479
agencies should ideally be controlled by people
elected by the public. You know that

1080
01:46:05.720 --> 01:46:12.640
principle is good, but it is
I'm afraid abused a great deal and you

1081
01:46:12.840 --> 01:46:17.399
get bad apples, awful lot of
them. You could say, Now,

1082
01:46:17.600 --> 01:46:26.640
I wouldn't say that it was good
that I was persecuted for fifty years because

1083
01:46:26.720 --> 01:46:30.920
I wrote a book about an African
tried saying they were but being from space.

1084
01:46:31.000 --> 01:46:34.640
I mean, why should they try
and destroy my life when I was

1085
01:46:34.760 --> 01:46:39.920
a really perfectly harmless person who who
just was writing a book. Well that's

1086
01:46:40.000 --> 01:46:43.319
my question. What have you thought
about it? Why would they persecute you

1087
01:46:43.520 --> 01:46:47.920
for your research? Well, I
think they do that with it's a sort

1088
01:46:47.960 --> 01:46:54.079
of standard default it is. They
do that with anybody. I've had other

1089
01:46:54.439 --> 01:46:58.600
friends who've been persecuted. It's not
just me. I'm not a paranoid who

1090
01:46:58.640 --> 01:47:01.840
feels I'm a victim. I know, I understand. I don't actually consider

1091
01:47:01.880 --> 01:47:08.359
myself a victim because I expect this
kind of thing. You see, I

1092
01:47:08.520 --> 01:47:13.479
know enough about the real world to
realize that these are real things that happen

1093
01:47:13.560 --> 01:47:19.000
in the real world. I'm not. But don't you think there are regressive

1094
01:47:19.119 --> 01:47:24.920
policies? Wouldn't you think? And
I've talked to other scientists on this program

1095
01:47:25.000 --> 01:47:29.279
about this. When we learn that
we're not the only ones in our cosmos,

1096
01:47:29.439 --> 01:47:38.520
we automatically evolve as a specie,
and to repress that is it doesn't

1097
01:47:38.560 --> 01:47:43.800
help us at all. I hope
you're right. We don't know that for

1098
01:47:43.920 --> 01:47:49.600
sure. But you have to realize
that all the security agencies of the major

1099
01:47:49.680 --> 01:47:54.960
countries look upon the question of extraterrestrial
life as the number one security issue of

1100
01:47:55.000 --> 01:48:00.399
the world, which it is.
It is in theory it could be harmful

1101
01:48:00.600 --> 01:48:06.199
to humanity, and they don't know. Therefore they take the ultra conservative position,

1102
01:48:08.000 --> 01:48:12.479
which is presumably responsible, or they
think it's responsible. I don't think

1103
01:48:12.560 --> 01:48:16.680
that their behavior has has been justifiable. They obviously think that they can do

1104
01:48:16.760 --> 01:48:21.239
what they like because they've convinced themselves
that they are the virtuous ones. Yeah,

1105
01:48:21.840 --> 01:48:25.840
they are. They are the guardians. They're saving humanity. But of

1106
01:48:25.920 --> 01:48:30.279
course it's all tied up with their
power lust and their egos and a lot

1107
01:48:30.319 --> 01:48:34.159
of some of them are psychopathic.
Oh god, that's all we need to

1108
01:48:34.239 --> 01:48:39.159
hear about. Yeah, there are
lots of psychopaths in positions of power because

1109
01:48:39.199 --> 01:48:44.479
they seek out power and people with
no empathy or compassion, so they don't

1110
01:48:44.720 --> 01:48:47.920
really rate the public. They have
no interest in the public. These kinds

1111
01:48:47.960 --> 01:48:56.880
of psychopathic people. They look upon
other people as things, and they don't

1112
01:48:56.920 --> 01:49:01.640
have any empathy with the public.
And they are not Democrats. Democrats,

1113
01:49:01.680 --> 01:49:05.359
I mean they might be members of
the Democratic Party, but they are they

1114
01:49:05.359 --> 01:49:10.920
are not Democrats with a small D
if you see what I mean that.

1115
01:49:11.199 --> 01:49:14.840
I'm sure they've belonged to all the
different parties. But the thing is that

1116
01:49:15.159 --> 01:49:18.279
when I say they're not Democrats,
I mean they don't favor democracy. They

1117
01:49:18.319 --> 01:49:25.560
are authoritarian mentalities and they think they
know what's best and we should shut up,

1118
01:49:25.600 --> 01:49:30.319
pay our taxes and get lost.
Yeah. The book's called The Serious

1119
01:49:30.399 --> 01:49:35.840
Mystery. My guest has been Professor
Robert Temple. Robert Today, it's uh,

1120
01:49:36.640 --> 01:49:42.520
twenty twenty three. What would you
like the current reader the new reader

1121
01:49:42.600 --> 01:49:46.239
of your book to get up from
your what impression would you like them to

1122
01:49:46.399 --> 01:49:53.840
have of this work? Well,
what everybody should do is combine in what

1123
01:49:54.039 --> 01:49:58.760
I wrote in The Serious Mystery with
my latest book, which is called The

1124
01:49:58.840 --> 01:50:04.359
New Signs of Heaven, which gives
a huge amount of further information, and

1125
01:50:05.399 --> 01:50:10.640
it's a it's about the universe being
mostly plasma. As we've discussed in a

1126
01:50:10.720 --> 01:50:16.800
previous conversation podcast, the universe is
made of ninety nine point nine percent plasma

1127
01:50:16.880 --> 01:50:20.399
out of atoms, and I go
into that, and what this means is

1128
01:50:20.680 --> 01:50:25.640
a revolution in physics, so that
our physics that we have at the moment

1129
01:50:25.760 --> 01:50:30.159
is earth based physics based on atoms. The real physics that we need as

1130
01:50:30.199 --> 01:50:34.840
a plasma physics, and it exists
partially, but it doesn't get much funding.

1131
01:50:35.720 --> 01:50:43.039
And the thing is that on the
basis of the plasma physics, I've

1132
01:50:43.079 --> 01:50:50.439
been able to explain how that can
be a kind of cell in space which

1133
01:50:50.560 --> 01:50:59.239
contains both our Sun and the Serious
System in the same cell, and that

1134
01:51:00.279 --> 01:51:05.479
it could become conceived of as a
dusty complex plasma cell which then has long

1135
01:51:05.600 --> 01:51:14.079
range order which would make communication between
the Serious System and the solar system easier

1136
01:51:14.279 --> 01:51:16.680
than it would do if you're outside
the cell. I mentioned this in the

1137
01:51:18.079 --> 01:51:24.000
introductory chapter of the nineteen ninety eight
series Mystery, but without knowing about Plasma

1138
01:51:24.039 --> 01:51:28.960
at that stage. And I can
now explain it according to Plasma as if

1139
01:51:29.000 --> 01:51:32.840
you read both books, then you
get a whole picture. And then anyone

1140
01:51:32.880 --> 01:51:36.920
who really wants to go into it
should look at my technical papers on research

1141
01:51:38.039 --> 01:51:43.720
gate dot net type end Robert Temple
and they're all chronologically there, okay.

1142
01:51:44.880 --> 01:51:49.039
And there's an article there that I
did with my friend Chanter vic Gamma Singer

1143
01:51:49.520 --> 01:51:55.800
in the journal Advances and Actor Physics
about the two big clouds between us and

1144
01:51:55.880 --> 01:52:03.840
the Moon which may be connecting with
terrestrial intelligence. And I suggest that maybe

1145
01:52:03.960 --> 01:52:08.960
what we're looking for with our study
programs is misdirected and should and we should

1146
01:52:09.000 --> 01:52:14.640
be concentrating on something else. Okay, excellent. Well, how can people

1147
01:52:15.520 --> 01:52:19.319
read more about you? What's your
website? What's your web list? E?

1148
01:52:19.560 --> 01:52:25.039
R. L. Well. I
have a personal website, Robert dash

1149
01:52:25.279 --> 01:52:30.399
Temple dot com. A lot of
stuff, isn't there. It has about

1150
01:52:30.479 --> 01:52:33.960
my books, and there's a lot
of personal stuff of family and friends in

1151
01:52:34.119 --> 01:52:39.880
nostalgiaal all kinds of things of that
sort of people I've known who've died and

1152
01:52:41.199 --> 01:52:46.399
whatever, and attributes to them,
and and it does have my books listed,

1153
01:52:46.439 --> 01:52:54.880
but it isn't a website that's that
necessarily explaining in full about what's in

1154
01:52:54.960 --> 01:53:00.600
each book. But a lot of
the things I published are available as downloads,

1155
01:53:00.439 --> 01:53:04.159
masses of articles and papers, and
I mean, if you really want

1156
01:53:04.199 --> 01:53:08.800
to know all that stuff that's there, Okay, excellent. I want to

1157
01:53:09.000 --> 01:53:15.279
remind our listeners that Robert will be
at the upcoming Origins conference uh in uh

1158
01:53:17.039 --> 01:53:21.520
November. It's in November fourth,
and where's it gonna be held. It's

1159
01:53:21.560 --> 01:53:28.760
gonna be held at Wichshire, Wiltshire. It's in in Wiltshire in England.

1160
01:53:29.039 --> 01:53:30.680
Let me just check it. Yeah, I'm looking at it right here.

1161
01:53:31.239 --> 01:53:35.840
Um, yes, yes, it's
on November the fourth, which is a

1162
01:53:35.920 --> 01:53:42.359
Saturday, and it's at a place
called puzy pe w se Y, Okay

1163
01:53:42.840 --> 01:53:46.199
in Wiltshire. Um apparently near the
White Horse. I've never been there.

1164
01:53:47.000 --> 01:53:54.680
And for more information you can go
to Origins Conference dot co dot uk and

1165
01:53:54.920 --> 01:54:00.680
you can order tickets and I guess
they also have your presentation title and when,

1166
01:54:00.840 --> 01:54:04.640
what time of the day you'll be
speaking, so I don't know any

1167
01:54:04.680 --> 01:54:11.159
of that myself yet. Great,
I'll speak about but I'll think of something.

1168
01:54:12.840 --> 01:54:16.319
Great. Hey, Robert, real
pleasure speaking with you, and I

1169
01:54:16.439 --> 01:54:21.079
want to thank you again for writing
this fascinating book. We need more books

1170
01:54:21.159 --> 01:54:27.760
like this, and I hope that
what you had to say about your interactions

1171
01:54:27.800 --> 01:54:34.520
with the intelligence community doesn't frighten off
any fledgeling or new authors who are wanting

1172
01:54:34.560 --> 01:54:43.880
to write about similar subjects. So
well, let's hope not, and we'll

1173
01:54:43.920 --> 01:54:47.279
have to see what happens, because
I think that they've been very slowly drip

1174
01:54:47.479 --> 01:54:51.680
drip drip, trying to soften off
the public for what they know perfectly well,

1175
01:54:51.840 --> 01:54:57.800
namely that there is extrust your life, and that they've been much too

1176
01:54:57.840 --> 01:55:02.640
slow about it. And the recent
developments with what's called disclosure, very partial

1177
01:55:03.000 --> 01:55:08.920
and fragmentary disclosure is still better than
none, is a step in that direction.

1178
01:55:09.000 --> 01:55:11.600
But I think they're fighting among themselves. There's some people who want to

1179
01:55:11.640 --> 01:55:15.640
get on with it and other people
who don't, and they can't agree,

1180
01:55:15.760 --> 01:55:18.560
and it's all political and it's a
bit of a mess. Yeah, And

1181
01:55:19.079 --> 01:55:23.800
there's a lot of whistleblowers that seemed
to be coming out of different military,

1182
01:55:24.199 --> 01:55:30.640
say departments, which makes it interesting
when they come out and actually speak.

1183
01:55:30.359 --> 01:55:35.920
And there also was a famous physicist, his name is Bob Lazar, who

1184
01:55:36.119 --> 01:55:43.520
was part of this area fifty one
in Nevada that according to him, he

1185
01:55:43.640 --> 01:55:50.000
actually witnessed various UFOs and saucer shaped
vehicles that were not from Earth. So

1186
01:55:51.720 --> 01:55:57.000
unfortunately he's had to go into Hidi. His life's probably in dangers, but

1187
01:55:58.000 --> 01:56:01.840
well when one thing I will say
is that the descriptions of these creatures called

1188
01:56:01.920 --> 01:56:09.760
the grays, which one reads about
with it's so many UFO reports, strike

1189
01:56:09.880 --> 01:56:15.359
me as fabricants, organic robots.
Yeah, there's some people that believe that's

1190
01:56:15.399 --> 01:56:19.279
true. I have heard that.
If it exists, I think that's what

1191
01:56:19.439 --> 01:56:24.439
they must be. Amazing, fascinating. Robert, always a pleasure. We're

1192
01:56:24.439 --> 01:56:28.039
gonna have to have you back,
and I'll look forward to speaking with you

1193
01:56:28.359 --> 01:56:30.920
in the future. Thanks for joining
me, Cliff. It's been great fun

1194
01:56:31.119 --> 01:56:35.880
as usual, and I wish you
well and I a great They admire you

1195
01:56:36.039 --> 01:56:48.279
and what you're doing. So much
to glean from that interview. I could

1196
01:56:48.560 --> 01:56:54.439
spend another hour or two speaking to
him with that on that specific subject.

1197
01:56:55.520 --> 01:56:58.439
You know, it's funny. He
mentioned The Crystal Sun, which is a

1198
01:56:58.520 --> 01:57:01.800
book on ancient optics, and I
had an opportunity to look at it just

1199
01:57:02.119 --> 01:57:06.920
off during the break. It is
a fascinating book. I'm gonna have to

1200
01:57:06.920 --> 01:57:09.720
talk to him about that. We
had to have him come on and talk

1201
01:57:09.760 --> 01:57:14.600
about that book specifically. It's a
huge This is an issue I'm dealing with

1202
01:57:14.800 --> 01:57:18.039
right now, which is the belief
that the Maya did not have any kind

1203
01:57:18.079 --> 01:57:23.960
of optics whatsoever, telescopes, lenses, or anything to observe the sky.

1204
01:57:24.199 --> 01:57:28.920
And the problem with that is that
if you go to some of the observatories,

1205
01:57:29.079 --> 01:57:33.680
there are housings, whole features within
the walls that look like they could

1206
01:57:33.720 --> 01:57:40.600
have held the telescope, and also
lenses, and in number and a number

1207
01:57:40.640 --> 01:57:45.680
of museums i've seen raw lenses.
So I think that is a huge problem

1208
01:57:45.800 --> 01:57:48.279
that we are faced with. And
so I got to get that book,

1209
01:57:48.319 --> 01:57:53.159
The Crystal Sun. Fascinating. That
book was written twenty years ago, So

1210
01:57:54.319 --> 01:57:58.319
great fun to have, Robert.
I hope that you got something out of

1211
01:57:58.359 --> 01:58:05.119
that. Of all the ancient alien
hypothesis theories and little evidence, I think

1212
01:58:05.239 --> 01:58:10.760
that the serious mystery really is the
most solid of all of them. In

1213
01:58:10.840 --> 01:58:15.159
fact, before we started, Robert
mentioned to me that Eric van Donigan had

1214
01:58:15.199 --> 01:58:20.680
actually contacted him and applauded him in
this book when it came out. Eric's

1215
01:58:21.000 --> 01:58:27.760
book Charity of the Gods had come
out about ten years earlier. And you

1216
01:58:27.880 --> 01:58:30.840
know, you know how I feel
about ancient alien hypothesis. Anything they can't

1217
01:58:30.880 --> 01:58:38.640
explain is an alien artifact, So
that doesn't work. So this is something

1218
01:58:38.760 --> 01:58:43.399
that's solid material for those of you
who are ancient alien theorists, and I

1219
01:58:43.560 --> 01:58:48.720
believe it's a function and I kind
of do too. This book should be

1220
01:58:48.800 --> 01:58:51.479
in your library, The Serious Mystery. You should get it. Get the

1221
01:58:51.560 --> 01:58:57.079
most recent version of the nineteen eighty
eight version, which is, as he

1222
01:58:57.239 --> 01:59:01.600
said, fifty percent more data that
out from his research. So check it

1223
01:59:01.640 --> 01:59:08.439
out. Good to have Robert on
the program. I want to mention Earth

1224
01:59:08.520 --> 01:59:12.840
Ancients does tours. We have a
big one coming up in November. It

1225
01:59:13.119 --> 01:59:19.880
is our ancient Maya of Tabasco and
Chiapas. It is November through the seventeenth,

1226
01:59:19.960 --> 01:59:24.880
one week. It's a short tour, but we have packed in a

1227
01:59:24.960 --> 01:59:30.680
ton of material. The first day
is in Leventa. We all meet in

1228
01:59:30.520 --> 01:59:36.600
Villa Hermosa, Mexico, Central Mexico, and then we bust over to Leventa,

1229
01:59:36.680 --> 01:59:43.279
which is very close by and the
world famous Leventa Museum. It's an

1230
01:59:43.319 --> 01:59:49.119
outdoor museum. It has to be
outdoors because it is filled with monstrosities.

1231
01:59:49.159 --> 01:59:55.079
These are some of the largest volcanic
heads, the omeg heads that we see,

1232
01:59:55.880 --> 02:00:00.560
the best collection of those. And
what I'm going for are these altars,

1233
02:00:00.680 --> 02:00:06.199
these monstrosities, these megalithic altars that
we've fifty to eighty tons carved to

1234
02:00:06.359 --> 02:00:13.399
perfection, carved with very strange beams
in there holding devices and so forth and

1235
02:00:13.479 --> 02:00:15.960
so on. Check it out if
you want more information. Oh and by

1236
02:00:16.000 --> 02:00:19.880
the way, the second day and
throughout the rest of the time, we

1237
02:00:20.319 --> 02:00:29.199
head to Chiapis for tours of Plenk
bomb Pack and two or three other sites

1238
02:00:29.279 --> 02:00:32.199
that are fantastic. Our guest is, i should say, our host is

1239
02:00:32.840 --> 02:00:38.479
doctor Edwin Barnhard. He will direct
us. He will show us the sites

1240
02:00:38.560 --> 02:00:43.119
that most people don't get to see. For details and more information, go

1241
02:00:43.199 --> 02:00:46.800
to Earth Ancients dot com, forward
slash tours t o u r S.

1242
02:00:47.279 --> 02:00:50.880
We're just at the top of it. I want to take another five or

1243
02:00:50.920 --> 02:00:56.760
six people to round it off so
that we have between twenty five and thirty.

1244
02:00:57.640 --> 02:01:00.319
Come on down, come out and
join us. This is going to

1245
02:01:00.359 --> 02:01:04.399
be great again November tenth through the
seventeenth, and it is not one to

1246
02:01:04.479 --> 02:01:09.399
be missed. I have not been
to that part of Mexico. It's in

1247
02:01:09.520 --> 02:01:14.880
the heart of Omec Land and very
close to some of the world's most fabulous

1248
02:01:15.640 --> 02:01:24.479
currently found Mayan cities. Earthancients dot
com, Forward slash Tours. If you're

1249
02:01:24.600 --> 02:01:29.319
joint Earth Ancients, please consider becoming
a subscriber. For as little as five

1250
02:01:29.399 --> 02:01:31.720
bucks a month, you can support
that we the work that we do here

1251
02:01:31.840 --> 02:01:36.079
on this podcast, and I gotta
tell you we got bills. Yeah,

1252
02:01:36.479 --> 02:01:40.760
we got bills to pay. Whatever
you can donate and makes a huge help.

1253
02:01:41.199 --> 02:01:45.359
Five, ten, fifteen, even
twenty bucks a month are big helps

1254
02:01:45.399 --> 02:01:49.640
to us. To become a subscriber, go to Patreon, PA t r

1255
02:01:49.880 --> 02:01:58.600
EOM dot com, Forward slash Earth
Ancients and subscribe. We got tons of

1256
02:01:58.720 --> 02:02:02.359
e books that are presented from our
guests, from our authors. Can download

1257
02:02:02.439 --> 02:02:06.159
those. I try to put one
up every thirty days, so we got

1258
02:02:06.239 --> 02:02:14.279
a bunch. We got some unpublished
galleries, some interviews, and up to

1259
02:02:14.399 --> 02:02:17.279
date information on what's going on with
Earth Ancients. We really appreciate your help.

1260
02:02:17.640 --> 02:02:24.439
Again. To become a subscriber,
go to Patreon dot com Forward slash

1261
02:02:24.720 --> 02:02:30.439
Earth Ancients. So I want to
thank the following guests for becoming subscribers.

1262
02:02:30.439 --> 02:02:39.159
I want to thank Lisa Wolf JJ
twenty three, Robert Pugsley, Kathleen Dickinson,

1263
02:02:40.199 --> 02:02:46.319
Karen Unger, Fernard Erlich Junior,
Little Oozy, Burt, and Vic.

1264
02:02:47.159 --> 02:02:50.800
I may have repeated a few people
from the previous announcement, but hey,

1265
02:02:51.520 --> 02:02:57.880
you guys, Rock, I really
appreciate your support and please enjoy all

1266
02:02:57.920 --> 02:03:01.119
the gifts and the things that we
give away on that site. Again.

1267
02:03:01.199 --> 02:03:08.079
To become a subscriber, go to
Patreon dot com Forward slash Earth Ancients.

1268
02:03:10.199 --> 02:03:12.359
All right, that's it for this
week. I want to thank my guest

1269
02:03:12.399 --> 02:03:16.359
today, Professor Robert Temple, coming
to us from England. As always,

1270
02:03:16.399 --> 02:03:24.760
the team of Ruth Thomas, Mark
Foster and Chris Hazel and everyone who makes

1271
02:03:24.800 --> 02:03:28.600
this thing happen. You guys,
Rock, I appreciate your help. All

1272
02:03:28.680 --> 02:03:30.560
right, take care of be well
and we will talk to you next time.