WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.560 --> 00:00:05.320 I can look out my window and see the Pyramids from my room here in 2 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:09.240 Cairo, Egypt. We're at the end of the tour. Had a great 3 00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:13.919 time, but I want to tell you about today's program, Confessions of a 4 00:00:13.960 --> 00:00:19.519 NASA Space Scientist with doctor John Brandenburg. It is an eye opener from start 5 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:25.079 to finish. It is a history of NASA's treatment of young and upcoming space 6 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:31.199 scientists, propulsion and rocket scientists. It is a story that had to be 7 00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:38.159 told. It is a open and frank discussion on just how we are receiving 8 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:44.920 the data on planet Mars and the UFO UAP phenomenon. And it is a 9 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:48.320 shocker. It's a shocker. It's a shocker. I can really tell you 10 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:55.240 that our program today is extended. It is a unique program in that our 11 00:00:55.399 --> 00:01:00.280 guest John Brandenburg tells it like it is from a young scientist all the way 12 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:06.719 to working on various projects and his understanding of why we are not told about 13 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:12.799 the civilization that he has confirmed on the planet Mars. This is our program 14 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:18.760 today. It is an eye opener and it is a good one for Earth 15 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:57.319 Ancients. All this and our science editor Bruce Fenton on Earth Ancients for Saturday 16 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:04.719 May twentieth, twenty twenty three. This is Earth Ancients. I'm your host, 17 00:02:05.319 --> 00:02:13.759 Cliff Dunning. Hey, hi hi, hi, hi hi. This 18 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:19.919 is Cliff coming to you from Cairo, Egypt. Evening. We are at 19 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:25.560 the end of our tour and I wanted to complete the final portions of the 20 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:31.120 special program with my friend doctor John Brandenburg. This is a unique program on 21 00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:37.400 many levels, and I will just basically say that it is an eye opener. 22 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:47.000 It is his complete openness to the rules and regulations of NASA, US 23 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:55.280 Space Command and the universities and colleges who deal with NASA and provide them with 24 00:02:55.400 --> 00:03:01.560 scientists. This program is called Confession of a NASA Space Scientists, and you 25 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:07.639 will quickly learn why. John basically spills the beings on his education, the 26 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:15.000 influence of NASA and Space Command or the Department of Defense on university students who 27 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:23.400 want to pursue a science degree planetary science, plasma physics, anything to do 28 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:30.680 with space. They are overseers from these departments and it is critical that you 29 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:38.240 comply to their wants and desires to become part of their organizations. I have 30 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:44.159 not been able to get a hold of John for almost three years. We 31 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:50.439 have cross passed. He went dark for a while working on different programs. 32 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:55.800 He's a consultant for NASA well here shortly. Also, the problems he's had 33 00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:01.080 with COVID almost killed him. We're going to learn about that. But today's 34 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:06.400 program is unique, and I've been wanting to have John on the program on 35 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:14.560 a regular basis. We are going to learn from John just how space scientists 36 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:24.279 are trained by the universities, the areas of UFOs, these alien driven vehicles, 37 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:30.800 planetary evidence of archaeology, and how it is squelched at a very young 38 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:38.160 age from the minds of up and coming scientists. And John spills the beings 39 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:46.399 in very very prolific ways and gives us the insight as to why more evidence, 40 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:53.319 more data is not released to the general public, and the problems associated 41 00:04:53.319 --> 00:05:00.120 with this and what is happening now with NASA and with the Space Command have 42 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:04.839 been frustrated for a number of years. As you probably know, in the 43 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:11.360 fact that I knew and I have learned through scientists that in the late nineteen 44 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:19.160 eighties evidence of a long dead civilization on Mars was discovered. The evidence was 45 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:27.439 revealed to a handful of scientists, a decision was made by NASA to keep 46 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:32.920 this underwrapped and to not disclose this information. We would later learn that NASA, 47 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:42.680 although a bright and substantial organization, was adherent to a document that they 48 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:50.959 requisitioned in nineteen sixty called the Brookings Institute Document on Space Exploration. And in 49 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:59.120 that document we learned that the Institute felt that United States citizens were not ready 50 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:08.040 psycho logically, religiously, and morally to handle any evidence of a first contact 51 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:14.319 or evidence of alien interactions on any scale. And in that case, and 52 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:19.920 because of that that document, we learned that NASA decided to not disclose the 53 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:29.959 discovery of a civilization on the planet Mars, as well as evidence of the 54 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:39.639 craft that were surveying studying Earth lanes from other planetary systems. Now, what 55 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:44.560 makes today's program unique not only is the fact that we get a sense of 56 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:50.079 the education and the indoctrination of scientists in the United States and in Western culture, 57 00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:58.120 but we also learned that the SETI program search for Extraterrestrial intelligence is a 58 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:03.560 flat out joke. The multimillions of dollars that was placed on SETTI was a 59 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:12.120 failed project. They do not want the scientists to find any evidence and when 60 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:17.000 it is found, it is immediately squelched, it is immediately placed in the 61 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:23.959 top secret files, and we the public never get to see the light of 62 00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:30.959 any of this data or information that is discovered in any form of program that 63 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:35.759 allows us to understand that we are not the only one in the universe. 64 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:44.560 So we are going to learn today in this extended program from a NASA Space 65 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:53.720 scientist, exactly why the evidence is not allowed to be released, why we 66 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:58.720 are lied to, why we are not being provided with new data, And 67 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:03.399 as I've said many many times, this data helps us evolve as a civilization 68 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:09.720 when we learn we are not the only ones in our cosmos or the universe 69 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:15.160 that there are, that there are other civilized planets that are trying to contact 70 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:20.600 us, and this has kept from us wed evolve. We do not evolve 71 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:26.120 as a civilization because as soon as we learn that we are not the only 72 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:31.679 ones, that we are part of a collective of beings in our cosmos, 73 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:41.159 then we evolve. Then we begin to have a universal consciousness that we can 74 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:46.039 begin working with. And what a wonderful opportunity if we were able to contact 75 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:52.519 other beings and learn just what our places in the civil in the cosmos and 76 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:58.080 how we fit in and perhaps our ancestors. You know, it might be 77 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:03.320 great to know what the earlier epics were. We've had people on the program 78 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:11.840 talking about various Earth changes where early epics were destroyed, and perhaps those epics 79 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:16.879 those civilizations were in contact with off world beings. I am very much of 80 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:20.720 the belief that this is what happened. When you read the Mahabarata, the 81 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:26.320 ancient Hindu story of the Great War for Earth. There were other civilizations that 82 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:31.320 were part of this. My work with the Maya highlights the fact that the 83 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:39.759 Maya were in contact with other civilizations and were exchanging information. And this is 84 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:46.000 why I believe that the Maya were probably one of the most sophisticated societies on 85 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:52.759 the planet during their height, during their great periods of civilization. So our 86 00:09:52.759 --> 00:10:00.120 program today is with doctor John Brandenburgh, and this is a fun interview I 87 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:03.679 did a few weeks ago. But before we had John come on, I 88 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:07.039 want you to hear from our science editor, that's Bruce Fenton. Bruce and 89 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:11.799 I had a conversation a couple of weeks ago, and this is what his 90 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:18.240 ideas were. His thoughts were on the NASA's reluctance to reveal data on off 91 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:24.480 world types. It's always going to speak to Bruce Fenton. Bruce's our science 92 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:30.960 editor. We haven't talked to him in a while, and I'm curious about 93 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:37.039 his take on why the lack of disclosure on Mars. Now it seems like 94 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:43.399 every week I get new data. There's new postings of what looks like not 95 00:10:43.559 --> 00:10:52.120 only civilized ruins, buildings, structures, but more and more evidence of these 96 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:56.840 monstrous reliefs. These are sculptural reliefs that have a single purpose to be seen 97 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.919 at great distances. In many cases they can be seen from outer space as 98 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:07.480 you enter Mars orbit or Mars atmosphere, which is quite interesting. So hey, 99 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:11.799 Bruce, how are you good to hear from you? Yeah, I'm 100 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:15.360 pretty well. Yeah, looking forward to a summer of more and more alien 101 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:16.799 talk. Seems to be building up in the news. Very interesting. So 102 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:26.720 yeah, it's interesting times excellent. Today's program is with doctor John Brandenburg and 103 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:33.919 it's Confessions of a NASA scientist. But I'm curious your take on the I 104 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:37.799 mean, we both know av Lobe is really the proponent of space probes to 105 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:46.200 Earth, and he continues to be funded privately by a number of benefactors and 106 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:54.600 donors who are supporting his research around the planet. But what is the lack 107 00:11:54.639 --> 00:12:01.279 of evidence based on or not lack of evidence, lack of recept lack of 108 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:07.519 disclosure by NASA in the face of great evidence of and I want to be 109 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:11.080 specific on this, ruins on the planet Mars. What are you what's you're 110 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:16.720 feeling on that? Yeah, I mean I'm pondering this because just recently, 111 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:20.279 of course, we've had some more you know, astonishing images from Mars. 112 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:26.000 You know, these looked rather like very regularly spaced proturbancies from a long serpent 113 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:28.399 like rock, you know, And obviously there was a couple of scientists saying, 114 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:31.399 you know, this is the most amazing imagery they've seen, and you 115 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:35.440 know, very strange looking stuff on top of of course, years and years 116 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:39.840 of other anomalous looking imagery, you know, returning from Mars. But we 117 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.519 can sort of trace a way back to course the face on Mars, and 118 00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:46.559 you and I read The Mars Mystery when I was younger, you know, 119 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:48.840 Graham Hancock's book, and you know, even back then, of course, 120 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:54.480 I think there was an opportunity for the mainstream and NASA to start saying, 121 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:56.559 well, let's at least look at some of these nominalies, let's do some 122 00:12:56.840 --> 00:13:03.000 tentative you know, arqueology, even if they said, we don't think this 123 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:07.200 is alien, but to have targeted some of these sites, and as you 124 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:09.879 know, they basically didn't. So there seemed to have been a decision made 125 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:15.279 at some point that they weren't even willing to go as far as humoring the 126 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:18.600 idea that this might be, you know, a Martian civilization. And I 127 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:20.919 think it's a big question about then, So why, because that could have 128 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:24.320 been a moment where they would have got the interest of the whole planet behind 129 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:30.080 them. You know, I imagine more funding, certainly a huge upswell of 130 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:33.120 public interest in space Mars. So so when you think of it like that, 131 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:37.159 it's kind of crazy. So the more I've looked at it, I've 132 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:41.639 come to sort understand that you almost have to go back to the Viking land 133 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:45.960 emissions when they sent these detectors, you know, as an afterthought, they 134 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:48.519 sent detectors for life on Mars, you know, and the main project was 135 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:52.120 all geological, but they just as a as an aside, you know, 136 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:54.240 they said, okay, well, you know, will include some of these 137 00:13:54.399 --> 00:14:01.679 life detection kits, and of course what actually happened was these kids detected life. 138 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.879 Like I think it was like five a six experiments showed life and one 139 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:09.720 experiment we now know was basically flawed, so it probably did show life. 140 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:13.120 And you'd think that would be amazing, right, and everyone be excited. 141 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.639 But a few months ago I was reading an account of one of these guys 142 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.519 who saw the notes from that mission, and he said, instead of seeing 143 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:24.720 a sense of excitement, there was a sense of fear. And you think 144 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:28.240 about it, there was a sense of fear that they had found life and 145 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.159 that they were going to have to announce that marginal life was real, that 146 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:35.240 there was you know, organic traces in the soil. And he said, 147 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:37.960 you start to think, like, how does this make sense. These people 148 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.720 should have been over the moon saying, you know, we've detected life, 149 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:45.480 and instead, he said, there was a sense of relief when one of 150 00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:48.039 the tests failed. And I thought, that's kind of let that sink in. 151 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:54.440 That's so strange. So I think there is a culture of fear in 152 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.840 that whole kind of space science field, a strange culture of fear that you 153 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:03.519 not supposed to detect life. And I could take that everything, because that 154 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:07.799 I find that quite staggering, because we're all thinking how exciting it would be, 155 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:11.519 you know, to be the person or the team perhaps that saw you 156 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:16.039 know, a Martian temple or or detected at a living creature or even the 157 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:18.519 right how exciting that would be. The idea that some of these teams are 158 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:24.399 actually scared to find life there. I mean, that's really makes you rethink 159 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:30.200 what's happening and why that culture exists. So what do you what do you 160 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:35.519 suspect on that, Bruce when you say there's a general sense of fear of 161 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:41.080 discovering alien life on Mars, or for that matter, any planet. I 162 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:45.320 would be excited. And I think generally if you look at it, if 163 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:50.679 you do a survey of the general public, I would see overall the vast 164 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.799 majority of people would welcome it absolutely. So what would be the purpose of 165 00:15:54.879 --> 00:16:02.519 causing and creating a sense of fear around the discovery? Right? I think 166 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:07.799 somewhere in the hierarchy that there has to have been some kind of almost formal 167 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:12.559 or informal decision made that already that's prejudging that there isn't life there, and 168 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.919 that if you are to go against that that your career is going to be 169 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.720 in trouble in the same way that we've seen a bit with UFOs and other 170 00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:23.519 topics. I think somewhere in that hierarchy at NASA and in the science community, 171 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.519 the view that it's filtering down is there isn't life and that you know, 172 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:30.720 we're just doing this to go through the motions, you know, to 173 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:34.879 explore the science of geology. And I think that they've been given the impression 174 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:37.919 that they're not that, you know, it's almost ridiculous. The idea that 175 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.799 there's alien life out there is ridiculus. I can't think for a better reason 176 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.200 why that that's their fear, because you'd think they'd be so excited with the 177 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.840 possibility. So this must be coming from higher up in these organizations, a 178 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:52.840 sense of you know, it would be ridiculous for one of you to come 179 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:55.679 here and tell me that you think you found life, that there's something you 180 00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:59.200 know like that, where they have been given, in no uncertain terms, 181 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:02.960 a sense of their rear will be in flames if they start saying that they 182 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:06.039 think they found life, because there's no other real sense to this, because 183 00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:08.359 it just seems like they know the whole world would be excited. They know 184 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:11.400 that it would be amazing to be the person who did that. So the 185 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.920 idea these people are so scared of even you know, sending a probe to 186 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.599 some of these areas on Mars where they've already seen you know, rectangular shapes 187 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:25.119 or pyramid like structures or you know, now be could he these regular spikes 188 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:26.880 coming out of a rock. You know, it's got to a point of 189 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:32.680 absurdity where any normal person would be targeting these sites or you know, putting 190 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:37.880 down drones, putting down the you know, the the probes. It has 191 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:41.400 become, I thin, quite absurd because anyone else running this space program with 192 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:47.000 an objective interest in finding life, you'd be targeting all of those sites and 193 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:52.559 instead of asking to go to barren waste lands where there is nothing of interest. 194 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:56.920 So that can you imagine the social media that would be behind that. 195 00:17:56.079 --> 00:18:00.440 It's like, hey, we're going to check this out. We're sitting a 196 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.960 satellite to this part of Mars. What do you think you know, they 197 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:08.599 would have a huge buy in, absolutely buy in. So I don't think 198 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.839 this is naturally coming from the scientists at lower levels. That's what I mean. 199 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.960 I think that they would be excited to do this, but there is 200 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:19.799 something that we're not aware of that's probably been made very clear at higher levels 201 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.119 that this is just you know, there's no life on Mars. Don't come 202 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:26.440 to me with any stupid stories of that, you know, go out and 203 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:30.279 do your geology work, because they've never even sent back another one of these 204 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.519 test kits too Mars to confirm the life signatures you know from all those years 205 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:36.920 ago in the Viking Landers. I mean, that's what the seventies. I 206 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:40.440 mean. So there's something is not working right at NASA. I think that 207 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:42.799 you have to say somebody are in that hierarchy. There's people they're saying, 208 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.839 no, that's absurd, You're not going to be doing that. That's the 209 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:51.559 end way I can interpret it. I like that. I want to just 210 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:57.200 get your take on this Brooking Institute document because I keep I promly believe as 211 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:06.359 out of control is it as it would be. This document basically was requisitioned 212 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:14.599 by NASA in nineteen sixty and the Brookies came back and said first contact would 213 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:22.400 cause such an uproar that people would commit suicide, that society would would grandual 214 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:29.079 halt. Religious religious would be called into questions and all this other malarkey that 215 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:34.759 is now over sixty years old. But there's something about that document that holds 216 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:45.279 I believe NASA Space Command, the d D, perhaps European space agencies in 217 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:52.279 check from releasing any information. What do you say to that? Yeah, 218 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:56.519 I think that it could be potentially that they see detection of life on Mars, 219 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:00.880 or even detection of archeological struct on Mars, would be a kind of 220 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:07.599 de facto confirmation of other claims about alien existence. You know that if there's 221 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:12.359 evidence of life on Mars, especially civilization, then all those past stories of 222 00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:17.279 alien contacts on Earth and people seeing ships and all of that is going to 223 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:19.480 suddenly get massive credibility because it'd be like, well, there is you know, 224 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:22.559 there has been aliens in our solar system? Could there still be? 225 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:25.960 So I suspect it may be something like that. They don't want to unlock 226 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:30.920 that other door, which would have more profound society changing implications, So they're 227 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:36.640 perhaps worried that even a detection on Mars could strengthen massively all these other claims 228 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:38.839 that they've been denying for years, and so they're gonna end up looking perhaps 229 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.920 with a lot of egg on their face that, well, if there was 230 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.839 a civilizing for Mars, why shouldn't there be technologies in our solar system? 231 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:48.680 So yeah, I suspect it may well be relating to that idea. They 232 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.160 don't want to open that door even a crack, because everything else is going 233 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.480 to come through. You know. It's funny, is and I talk about 234 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.440 this. I think that when the revelation is made, and it won't perhaps 235 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:06.279 it won't be anytime soon, but heads will roll at NASA, because we, 236 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:11.319 the Americans, fun NASA to the tune of many billions of dollars every 237 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:18.160 year. And if it was discovered that the rover looking for biological evidence of 238 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:25.319 ancient microbes was a waste of two point five billion dollars, and in the 239 00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:30.960 few miles away were temples of a of a lost, long dead civilization, 240 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:37.440 that would be a serious breach of of of character, I would think, 241 00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:44.359 and professional protocol. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine all these people probably 242 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:48.279 want to position themselves out of their jobs before that happens. I think, 243 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:52.400 now what's coming, You know that they may want to retire before that gets 244 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:56.279 green light on, you know, confirmation. I don't know, it's it's 245 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:00.799 a it's an interesting question. So hey, Bruce, good talking to you 246 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:04.359 and we'll have you back real soon. Bulliaan take app. Thank you, 247 00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:11.319 Thanks very much, fun speaking with Bruce. All Right, So today's program 248 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:18.720 is Confessions of a NASA Space scientists, and my guess is doctor John Brandenburg. 249 00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:30.359 Each year Earth Ancients heads to Mexico for a private tour of some of 250 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:37.440 the most intriguing ruins from the Maya and other meso American cultures. This year, 251 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:44.400 November tenth through the seventeenth, we'll be heading to Vera Hormosa in southern 252 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:49.160 Mexico to see the site of the omec ruins at Lavina. This includes a 253 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:56.880 visit to the world famous outdoor museum where there are megalists of all sizes and 254 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:02.960 shapes. We then head to Palak in Chiapas and visit this jewel of the 255 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:07.359 Maya Empire with doctor Edwin Barnhart as our host. We'll be there for two 256 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:11.599 days, and then we head out to Bottom Peck, site of one of 257 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:18.000 the largest murals left to us from the Maya Classic period. For more information 258 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:25.359 and details on this tour, go to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash Tours 259 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:30.680 and we'll see the entire itinerary and more details. This is a one of 260 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:37.240 a kind tour with doctor ed Barnhart and Yours Truly For more information, Earth 261 00:23:37.279 --> 00:24:37.920 Ancients dot com forward slash Tours. Always great to have doctor John Brandenburg on 262 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.559 the program. It's been and I was just talking to John off before we 263 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.039 started. It's been a couple of years since we've we've talked to him, 264 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:53.039 and this program is his revelations on the work he did as a plasm physicist 265 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:57.000 understanding what happened on Mars tens of thousands of or excuse me, tens of 266 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:00.319 millions of years ago. Yes, we're gonna go through that, but we're 267 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:06.039 also going to get some sense of what he's been up to, the revelations 268 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:10.160 the research that has been done since his book came out, Death on Mars. 269 00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:11.759 And by the way, if you haven't, if you don't have that 270 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:15.319 book, you got to get it because it's a real eye opener from a 271 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:22.279 scientist. This is not somebody who's guessing on what's in the Mars atmosphere. 272 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:26.839 This is somebody who analyzed it and actually came back with some very very important 273 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:33.680 information that is featured prominently in that book, Death on Mars. So hey 274 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:40.079 John, great to see you. Thanks beyond your show. Always a pleasure 275 00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:42.119 to have you. Let's start off real quickly and say, I haven't seen 276 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.279 you for a couple of years. You had about of COVID, didn't you. 277 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.960 Well, yeah, I ended up in the hospital. Yeah, your 278 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:53.039 your illness was to the point where it wasn't a simple flu bug. You 279 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:57.279 got laid up pretty good. No, I was, Yeah, it was. 280 00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:00.960 It was a near run thing. The grace of God, though, 281 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:06.839 I survived and wasn't permanently impaired or anything like that. Yeah. Heple were 282 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:10.240 concerned about that. But you know, you've got to clean. By the 283 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:15.000 grace of God, the prayers of my family and friends and help, I've 284 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.720 just been fine. Okay. Oh people died, People younger and healthier than 285 00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:25.640 me died, and you know, yeah I met one of them who died 286 00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:33.480 later, and yeah he was smart, healthy, you know, semi athletic 287 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:37.640 guy, married a beautiful wife and boom, end up in the hospital and 288 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.640 it never came out. You look good. You pulled through, which is 289 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:45.920 which is important. Hey, I'm turning the big seven oh this Friday. 290 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:51.440 Oh hey, congratulations, you look good. Thank you, John. I 291 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:53.759 want to drill down a little bit. It's been Like I said, it's 292 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:57.680 been a few years since we had you in the program, and you have 293 00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:03.680 done some very important work. We're gonna talk about your work on Rocket Engine, 294 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.960 but we're also going to talk a little bit about some of the pass 295 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:12.119 work. I had a chance to review Death on Mars, and I have 296 00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:18.079 some questions that come up when you were working with the collective that Hogan, 297 00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:22.279 Richard Hoglan put together. This is years ago, but there's a lot that's 298 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.119 come out since. The reason I wanted to bring you back, John, 299 00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:32.079 not only are you great to talk with, but the questions that keep coming 300 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:37.119 up is in the face of the great evidence of archaeological ruins, yes, 301 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:45.240 your discovery of this Zone one twenty nine, and the continual photo evidence of 302 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:52.319 what appeared to be these monstrosities of graphic reliefs or card reliefs runs in the 303 00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:56.559 face of looking for microbes. It just is such a problem for me. 304 00:27:57.079 --> 00:28:03.160 Well, what a what do we consider this? You know you have friends 305 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:07.160 in these places, and I know you didn't send an NDA, so you 306 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:11.960 can't talk a little bit about it. But what's that? What's going on? 307 00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:15.480 What the hell is going on? That we have this huge body of 308 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:22.680 evidence from many scientists, and yet NASA doesn't seem to be able to let 309 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.960 the ket out of the back and go, look we have found I mean, 310 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:30.079 what wouldn't it be easy for them to say, hey, we found 311 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:36.839 archaeological ruins. We think there's evidence of ancient life. Yeah. Oh, 312 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:40.880 they found abundant evidence of ancient life. In fact, even present life on 313 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:49.000 Mars, a very residual biosphere, and so they But you must understand that 314 00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:57.440 some organizations, let's talk apple carts here, got a big apple cart here 315 00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:02.599 going. You know, it's the worldview of the human race, and a 316 00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:07.720 lot of it's I'm sorry, I'm religious myself. I'm an Biscopalian, but 317 00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:12.599 there are a lot of people who get very upset when we start talking about 318 00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:17.240 life on the planet because I think that this contradicts the Bible. It doesn't. 319 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:22.319 And I actually wrote a book on that called Cosmic Jesus. And so, 320 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:30.599 but you've got this big cultural apple cart, and people, especially in 321 00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:37.559 academia, are reluctant to upset apple carts. They want to count the apples. 322 00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:41.200 They want to count the red apples and the green apples of the yellow 323 00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:48.000 apples on the cart sort the cry of apples from the regular apples. But 324 00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:56.799 if you go talking about there's life past life, humanoid life on Mars, 325 00:29:56.839 --> 00:30:06.240 that is such a paradigm shattering idea even for people in the sciences. Now 326 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:12.440 an example, we had the a l H eighty four or one very ancient 327 00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:18.079 meteorite from Mars, and they found signs of microfossils in it and signs of 328 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:25.240 past chemical biological activity. I reviewed the evidence, I'd look quite convincing to 329 00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:32.920 me. But academia and this was put forth by the people at Manned Space 330 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:37.000 Flight Center, you know, Johnson Space Sight Flight Center in Houston. That 331 00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:42.799 lab was connected to them, and I would go to conferences that i'd see 332 00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:48.000 this. One guy, Dave McKay was leader of that team that found this, 333 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:53.480 and I watched him just get pummeled unfairly by people from the audience, 334 00:30:55.599 --> 00:31:00.680 a bunch of other bunch of college professors basically, and a coffee I talked 335 00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:04.799 with him and he says, I understand, you know, some of their 336 00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:10.559 criticisms of our work. What I don't understand is why they're so angry. 337 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:15.079 So what were they What was the premise was he saying that there's uh microbes 338 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:21.839 from Mars. Microbes might landed on Earth. No, he just said there 339 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:27.559 was microbes on early Mars. And the evidence on Earth is that they start 340 00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:34.720 finding bacterial traces of bacterial fossils in Mars and Earth rocks that are very, 341 00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:40.519 very ancient, so that just about the time we had a liquid ocean, 342 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:44.279 we had life in it. And that was like two hundred million years after 343 00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:48.640 the assembly of the Earth and I got started getting a liquid ocean, and 344 00:31:48.759 --> 00:31:52.319 you find life signs in the rock, that means life began very early. 345 00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:57.200 And they found the same thing on Mars. They found evidence this this you 346 00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:01.039 know, this Mars rock very old. It's almost four and a half billion 347 00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:06.559 years old, about the same age as the Earth, and it had microbial 348 00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:14.240 fossils in it. And what that means is that life just on the face 349 00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:20.279 of it. It means that life begins as soon as there's a life supporting 350 00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:25.279 environment on the planet like Earth or Mars. Early Mars was early Mars and 351 00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:34.799 early Earth were almost identical places. And this means once you find life on 352 00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:39.839 Mars, you find life in the stars. Because there's nothing about the Earth 353 00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:46.440 or Mars that looks terribly exceptional in the cosmos. We're finding planets just about 354 00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:52.559 every star you see at night as planets are in it. That's what they're 355 00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:55.279 finding. And some of those planets are just in what's called the life zone 356 00:32:55.319 --> 00:33:04.319 where you have liquid water like on Earth and Um and their small rocky planets 357 00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:08.799 like Earth. And this means there's that when you look out at the night 358 00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:15.799 sky, some of those stars are looking people on those stars are looking back. 359 00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:22.440 Sure wave, you know the way back, you know. And this 360 00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:30.079 is so such a dramatic, unsettling thing. It's it's just like the Copernican 361 00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:36.240 Revolution. Worthy. Copernicus said that Earth was not the geometric center of the 362 00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:42.079 universe, and he knew this would make the church mad. Worked for the 363 00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:45.240 Catholic Church, so he made sure the book was published after he was dead. 364 00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:52.759 It was the first shovel of dirt hit his coffin. They released the 365 00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:59.359 book. They couldn't get him. And so the powers that be like the 366 00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:04.480 idea that Earth was the center of the universe, and they were the powers 367 00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:08.039 that be who ran it. Anything else was a demotion. Now the same 368 00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:13.880 thing is happening now, only we imagine that we're the center of the biological 369 00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:20.119 universe, and we're about to find out. No, we're not. Okay, 370 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:22.639 it doesn't have a center, just like it doesn't have a geometric center. 371 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:27.679 It doesn't have a biological We're not the masters of the only oasis in 372 00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:34.559 the whole universe. Yeah, it sounds to me like this Brooking Institute document 373 00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:38.960 that came about in nineteen sixty is still very prevalent in the scientific community. 374 00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:46.840 Yes, it is an unspoken policy, kind of a conspiracy of silence that 375 00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:52.360 if you want to do business with DASA and get grants and things like this, 376 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:58.000 which is essential to any body pursuing an academic career, it's not a 377 00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:00.400 good enough thing that you're a good profess, sir. You've got to get 378 00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:06.199 grants. You got to get publications, and that requires grants to support your 379 00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:09.840 research. And you have to get citations. Other people who see something benefit 380 00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:16.800 citing you. And you can't play that game unless you play ball with NASSA. 381 00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:22.519 And the unspoken rule at NASSA is you're supposed to look for signs of 382 00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:27.880 extra treasurer life but not find any. Oh God, I know you've said 383 00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:34.760 that to me before, but that is they ultimately to ask backwards well, 384 00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:38.920 welcome to the human race. The human race does this all the time, 385 00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:44.039 you know. Yeah, there's the forbidden question. Why doesn't the Emperor have 386 00:35:44.119 --> 00:35:51.599 any clothes? You know? Hush, you know, and and so the 387 00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:58.360 the Brookings Institution report warned that finding extraterrestrial life, especially intelligent life, could 388 00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:01.159 have a devastating effect on our culture. And it was in the middle of 389 00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:05.960 Cold War. They were very when you're in a Cold war, you want 390 00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:09.719 to manage public, the public mindset as much as you can. Yeah, 391 00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:15.079 they didn't want it. They didn't want to upset the public. They wanted 392 00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:19.760 you just they didn't want to upset any big Apple carts. You're laying you're 393 00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:24.360 laying the back Yeah, you're laying the backdrop to a lot of this discussion 394 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:30.760 we're having today as well as you can also can use that consideration for the 395 00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:36.280 UAP studies that are going on. There is just a report today that UAPs 396 00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:42.599 what are those? Yeah, UFOs are up. Yeah, they rebranded the 397 00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:46.199 whole thing, which is crazy. Really, let's go back a little bit, 398 00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:49.639 John, give us um you know, and I didn't ask this, 399 00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:55.039 Uh, what's your background education wise? You're well, I was trained as 400 00:36:55.079 --> 00:37:00.400 a physicist, especially a plasma physicist, which is the physics of hot gas, 401 00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:04.840 and it's essential to understanding how we'll get control fusion. That was my 402 00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:13.480 major focus in graduate school and you know where, and they've made astonishing progress 403 00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:16.719 in platts physics since it turned out to be a lot harder than we thought. 404 00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:24.800 And it's because the plasmas are a hot gas that conducts electricity like metal. 405 00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:30.559 They have a mind of their own. You have to figure out what 406 00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:35.119 they want to do and then kind of encourage them to do something as a 407 00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:38.519 compromise between what they want to do and what you want to do. You 408 00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:43.559 know, the Tokomac and everything like that. Those are all working very well. 409 00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:49.079 Now we're going to have control fusion here in the next ten years. 410 00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:58.760 But so that's my major thing. But also I decided to use plasmas for 411 00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:07.239 propulsion in space. So I became a space cadet um and I'm just to 412 00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:10.880 gave me an example how valuable that was. Since I'd become a space cadet 413 00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:19.079 working on plasma propulsion for space, and I invented my own space plasma thruster 414 00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:24.199 called the met thruster that's flying now in space. Um. I did it 415 00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:31.280 because I got involved in Mars research and h and I not only looked on 416 00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:36.920 this as you know, okay, looks like there's a dead civilization on Mars. 417 00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:40.519 Why is it dead? That's one of the big questions. But the 418 00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:46.480 other thing is that means we'll have a big Mars mission to go investigate it. 419 00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:51.639 And I want to be part of that. Yeah. So I wanted 420 00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:58.119 to be. I wanted to be become a space guy and so they so, 421 00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:00.199 so what happened when the Cold War ended? I mean, my whole 422 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:05.079 career, the first part of my career was the Cold War, and then 423 00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:10.440 suddenly the Cold War ended, and it was it was a catastrophe because all 424 00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:16.519 these companies that have been set up for I guess yeah, they went bally 425 00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:22.159 up and a lot of the people had called me space cadet as derisively. 426 00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:28.119 They said, Brandenburg, if you're really serious, you studying nuclear weapons effects? 427 00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:31.320 You know what happens when the nuclear weapon goes off and how does it 428 00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:36.639 change things? And uh, and I said, well, I'm I'm not 429 00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:39.280 interested in that stuff. I want to that's that's the fifties. I want 430 00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:42.599 to I want to go to the Mars, you know, want to be 431 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.440 part of the Bars mission that's going to happen. They said, why do 432 00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:47.360 you think there's going to be a Mars mission? I said, oh, 433 00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:54.239 I don't know. I have a suspicion there will be a Mars mission and 434 00:39:54.320 --> 00:40:00.039 so so, so what happened was I was able to just transition to a 435 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:06.559 space job when a lot of my colleagues, who were very much earth bound 436 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:09.840 defense skies, had to retire. Yeah, you know a lot of mur 437 00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:14.599 mer retirement anyway, and they just signed to flick it in after the Cold 438 00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:20.800 War ended. But I got to keep going. It was great. Yeah, 439 00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:25.159 And so it was so I can actually say that getting involved in Mars 440 00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:30.519 is, rather than hurting my career, actually really helped it. Let's step 441 00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:34.440 back just just a second. I want you to talk a little bit about 442 00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:39.679 your work at Lawrence Livermore National Lab. That was the weapons lab. It's 443 00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:44.239 a nuclear weapons lab. Yet, yeah, so you spent weapons. So 444 00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:46.480 when you was signed, can you talk about what you were doing there? 445 00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:52.119 Oh? Oh, yes, I wasn't doing classified, heavily classified work at 446 00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:55.280 all. You were building weapons, though, weren't you? No, no, 447 00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:59.719 no, no, I was. I was never directly involved in building 448 00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:05.679 nuclear weapons. I um, the code the computer programs, they call them 449 00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:13.480 codes for studying nuclear weapons. Uh, going off could also be used for 450 00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:19.000 laser fusion, and so I worked on laser fusion for a while. But 451 00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:27.159 my major focus of my education and my PhD work finally was on confinement of 452 00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:34.079 plasmas and magnetic fields. It's interesting when we were at Livermore Labs, we 453 00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:37.960 were all part of a graduate school called tell Or Tech, and we were, 454 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:42.119 you know, working on site learning all this fancy physics and stuff, 455 00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:46.800 and then then we would go to class at a little campus. They had 456 00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:52.440 a joining the lab, and it was part of the University of California, 457 00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:55.199 Davis. And every once in a while they would call us in kind of 458 00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:00.480 give us an official briefing from the lab. They said, well, you're 459 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:04.960 all good lab people right working at the lab. He said yes, yes, 460 00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:08.079 sir. And they'd say, we don't want any talk about UFOs. 461 00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:13.559 We don't want any talk about here is this They're saying that this was lack 462 00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:17.880 in nineteen seventy seven. Oh okay, this is a long time ago. 463 00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:22.760 That's so weird that they would say that. Oh well, they were especially 464 00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:27.639 they said, if anybody asked you if it's possible to have warp drive like 465 00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:30.000 on Star Trek, you know, traveling faster than light. You tell them, 466 00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:34.639 no, it's against the law, the law of special relativity. And 467 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:39.360 so that was and I remember talking without my fall students, what the hell, 468 00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:46.360 why are they telling us this. They didn't want want any discussion of 469 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:52.679 UFOs or the possibility that might be extraterrestrial, which wouldn't been it meant they'd 470 00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:58.719 have to come from another star system that warp drive. They didn't want anybody 471 00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:02.159 talking about stuff like that. And you know, so I was basically told, 472 00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:07.719 Um Brandenburg, do you believe in UFOs? And I say no, 473 00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:13.880 sir. So they would randomly kind of answer, please give me my to 474 00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:15.960 make sure you're giving my PhD so I can get out of here and get 475 00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:20.840 a real job. It was, you know, it was like that. 476 00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:24.320 I mean, they they so I was very naive and I tended to believe, 477 00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:30.800 uh, pretty much anything I was told. So you're talking about indoctrination. 478 00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:35.760 I was. I was hey, I was trying to I was trying 479 00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:38.480 to walk the walk and you know, be a good science, good young 480 00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:45.119 scientist. So you think this happens with all scientists that have anything to do 481 00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:51.440 with NASA or space technology. Is that you're indoctrinated to not think about aliens, 482 00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:58.079 other worlds, or body of contact. Oh, he talked at universities. 483 00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:04.320 I there was the astronomy at one place I worked. I worked at 484 00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:07.519 the Florida Space Institute, and I was an associate you know, just an 485 00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:13.119 adjunct professor of University of Central Florida, and we'd hear all these stories. 486 00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:19.159 Like in the astronomy department. The head of the department called all the people 487 00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:25.480 together and he basically he said, you junior faculty until you get tenure, 488 00:44:27.079 --> 00:44:31.599 we don't want to hear anything out of you, nothing, you know you 489 00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:37.840 In other words, so the process of academium that you have to work like 490 00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:43.679 seven years, work like a dog to get tenure, and then you're just 491 00:44:43.880 --> 00:44:46.239 an associate professor. If you want to be a full professor, you got 492 00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:51.440 to work three or four more years, and you got to toe the line 493 00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:59.559 constantly. You know, people losing their chance at tenure because of you know 494 00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:04.559 something. And they said at a cocktail party that happens really, so oh 495 00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:09.559 yeah, they're policing the scientists that are working on projects. It sounds like 496 00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:15.480 it's all and it's by the way, it's always been that way at universities. 497 00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:21.079 So universities are not places where you actually have a lot of academic freedom. 498 00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:25.800 Especially by the time you get survived to become a full professor. You're 499 00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:34.559 heavily invested in the system, and you don't say anything controversial, especially if 500 00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:38.039 it will offend the dean or the dean of the department or the head of 501 00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:43.880 the department something like that. Yeah, because they got to approve whether you 502 00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:47.079 get tenure or not, or become a full professor or something like that. 503 00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:55.719 And so you're constantly tiptoeing through a minefield. And so when I arrived at 504 00:45:55.920 --> 00:46:00.280 Sandy Labs, I just thought, well, okay, there are no UFOs, 505 00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:07.400 there's no extraterrestrial life for it. And then and then I'm at this 506 00:46:07.480 --> 00:46:14.679 lab. And you've never gone through a nuclear crisis, nucletar, a crisis 507 00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:19.079 like in the Cold War Cuban missile crisis, until you've been at a nuclear 508 00:46:19.159 --> 00:46:23.840 weapons lab and go through it, because everybody knows what it looks like. 509 00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:28.840 What it looks like, yeah, and what and what this place is. 510 00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:32.440 This place is going to turn into a lake of glass, and so has 511 00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:38.760 the surrounding ten miles and what's going to happen to you, your to you, 512 00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:44.159 what's going to happen to your family, your wife and kids, your 513 00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:51.360 dog cat? You know. UM. And when I was at when I 514 00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:59.039 was at Sandy Labs in nineteen eighty three, we went through um they discovered 515 00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:02.199 the nuclear winner. They actually discovered it because of a dust storm on Mars 516 00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:07.880 in nineteen seventy one, but they didn't talk about that at first because they 517 00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:12.159 wanted to sound really solid. It was Carl Sagan, though, who was 518 00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:15.320 one of the leaders of that, and they found out, you know that 519 00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:19.199 if there was a nuclear war, the Earth would be put in a deep 520 00:47:19.239 --> 00:47:24.719 freeze for maybe a year afterwards, and more people would die of starvation and 521 00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:36.079 cold, and would die of the original blasts and fallout. And this news 522 00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:38.920 of this passed through the lab where I was working. And if we weren't 523 00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:45.320 working on nuclear weapons, we were working on electron beam weapons, you know, 524 00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:52.679 corrected for energy weapons like laser beams. And it passed through the department. 525 00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:59.679 I was just caused despair. My office made said, you know, 526 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:01.920 I used to think there was going to be a nuclear war. I was 527 00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:05.920 going to jump in my car in the parking lot, race home, get 528 00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:08.960 my wife and kids and take them to the hills where they'd be safe. 529 00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:13.679 And he says, now, I'm just going to go home to be with 530 00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:15.800 my family, and I'm going to get up on the rooftop of six pack 531 00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:21.320 of beer watched the whole thing go. He says, wow. And I 532 00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:25.480 didn't know what to say because he was normally a very kind of happy, 533 00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:30.079 go lucky character, and I he said, this just utterly serious. And 534 00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:35.199 I said to him, what kind of beer would you be drinking, Malcolm? 535 00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:40.840 And he finally cracked a vile and laughed, you know, and I 536 00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:44.440 kind of, you know, I was trying to tell him, Malcolm, 537 00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:47.719 get a grip, you know. And I had actually myself decided I didn't 538 00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:52.159 want to survive a nuclear war anyway. So yeah, you know, I'd 539 00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:55.920 go home with my be with my wife and kids, and I'd go outside 540 00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:59.920 on the back patio with a cup of coffee and watched the whole thing. 541 00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:05.679 So you thought like that. And then right after the Nucular Winter thing came 542 00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:12.159 out, then there was the we had a big war exercise called Able Archer, 543 00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:16.239 and we came as close to a nuclear war as we did during the 544 00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:22.320 Human Messile crisis, and we weren't told what was going on, but we 545 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:30.079 could see from the military movements because Sandy Labs was on a shared land with 546 00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:35.760 a big Air Force base. There was all these military convoys. Everything was 547 00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:39.880 obviously the tension cut the tension with a knife, and we knew something was 548 00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:45.800 up. And they were testing everything to see if they could survive a nuclear 549 00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:52.400 blast out on this one. Oh boysility, and they had tanks out there, 550 00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:55.320 they had trucks out there, they had armored personnel carriers you know, 551 00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:01.960 humbies, and you just by the pace of the testing, Oh my god, 552 00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:07.480 something is really turn It turns out we only found out later how close 553 00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:10.960 we were to a nuclear war because they held a big NASA, a NATO 554 00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:17.159 exercise in Europe and the Russians were, you know, an under siege because 555 00:50:17.159 --> 00:50:22.920 of Afghanistan and things like this, and the Russians convinced themselves as the trojan 556 00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:27.840 horse, that we were going to attack them during the middle of this war 557 00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:31.480 exercise, so they put all of their nuclear forces everything on alert. All 558 00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:37.039 that would have taken was one strage yet fighter from NATO, and we would 559 00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:40.679 have had a full scale nuclear war. So you later found out I guess 560 00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:46.119 from defectors in Russia that this was going to happen or what. Well, 561 00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:52.280 it gradually kind of the rumor mill came out and that combined with the nuclear 562 00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:59.639 winner, so that by that happened in November. By the time December came 563 00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:04.239 round, Christmas and we had a long vacation. They just shut down the 564 00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:08.760 lab for about two weeks between Christmas and New Year's and so I was home 565 00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:14.440 a lot, and we had a lot of time to think, and gosh, 566 00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:17.199 it just seemed so hopeless, and we just thought, oh my god, 567 00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:22.199 we could have a nuclear war by accident and everything is going to get 568 00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:27.920 blown up, and yeah, and what you know, by accident because of 569 00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:34.679 a miscalculation. And then suddenly I saw this TV program and it showed the 570 00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:38.800 space on Mars and it showed two pictures of it that was like one nineteen 571 00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:44.119 after Viking, so like nineteen eighty maybe, and it was nineteen eighty four, 572 00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:46.079 okay, well actually was the day. It was the day after Christmas, 573 00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:51.280 Okay, in nineteen eighty three. And then by the time ninety eighty 574 00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:55.079 four rolled around, I tracked down the people who were doing the research and 575 00:51:55.159 --> 00:52:01.199 they sent me literature that they produced. You're talking about de Petri and Molin 576 00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:07.000 to Petrol and they just superb work. These are these are those of you 577 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:15.400 listening. These are two highly talented technicians, especial both engineers. They're both 578 00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:20.280 working engineers for NASA and okay on the computing scientists. The other one was 579 00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:28.880 an electrical engineer UM and they were both very good and they they wanted to 580 00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:35.159 make a Mars program like the Apollo. To them, they wanted to return 581 00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:37.039 to the big old days of Apollo, you know, the moon the Moon 582 00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:43.480 race. So they thought finding this on and so their to their extreme surprise, 583 00:52:45.639 --> 00:52:51.559 they got in all his trouble for publicize. They found out that NASA 584 00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:55.440 had taken a second picture of the face and then hidden it. But it 585 00:52:55.480 --> 00:53:00.800 was in the but it was in the data flies. So NASA knew right 586 00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:07.599 away when it was identified that this Sidonia region not only had this massive struck 587 00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:14.119 a sculptural relief of a face, yes, but it had this surrounding what 588 00:53:14.519 --> 00:53:19.480 Hoogland calls a city. Oh, there's there's a host of things around there. 589 00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:25.159 The most impressive thing is the big five sided pyramid, and it's only 590 00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:34.079 like ten miles from the face. Yeah, and NASA even like the modern 591 00:53:34.119 --> 00:53:37.239 pictures, NASA's very careful not to take a picture of the face that shows 592 00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:43.840 also a pyramid in the same picture, right, But the Viking had captured 593 00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:47.400 both of them in two frames. In fact, they had three pictures of 594 00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:52.679 the pyramid, and it was it's a pyramid five sided. It's it looks 595 00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:57.400 like a pyramid on another planet. But it's not just a pyramid, John, 596 00:53:57.559 --> 00:54:01.320 It's a monstrosity of a pyramid. It's like it isn't it like a 597 00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:07.039 five mile circumference or something huge. Yes, And it's about a kilometer or 598 00:54:07.119 --> 00:54:10.719 high, about half a mile high, which looks like a mountain. It 599 00:54:10.760 --> 00:54:16.000 looks like a mountain that they shaped removing soil and then facing it with brick. 600 00:54:16.039 --> 00:54:22.239 And we even found a place where there's almost a perfect square. On 601 00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:25.639 one side of it, here's this triangular phase like a pyramid. And then 602 00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:29.440 in the middle of it it looks like a doorway. It actually no, 603 00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:34.639 it's a square area or the bricks have given way, you know, informed 604 00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:38.880 this square shaped place where all these bricks have turned loose and slid down the 605 00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:45.480 side of the pyramid because of erosion, and we've confirmed that now with several 606 00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:52.239 pictures or modern probes, and they have all these new pictures of the face. 607 00:54:53.800 --> 00:55:02.000 And Mark Carlatto just a brilliant computing scientist doing image processing, that's what 608 00:55:02.079 --> 00:55:07.639 he did for a living PhD and image processing. He found out that when 609 00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:12.360 he looked at the Viking pictures that you could see what looked like ornaments on 610 00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:16.360 the forehead of this helmet the thing is wearing and those have been confirmed. 611 00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:21.639 You're talking about the helmet that the face is wearing. Yeah, it looks 612 00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:24.280 like it's wearing. It looks like it's wearing a helmet. We actually got 613 00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:31.079 pictures from a Central America of the old mac heads and they're wearing helmets too, 614 00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:35.599 So it looks very much like something carved by the old max on Earth. 615 00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:40.599 And including having you know, a very right angle frame where here's the 616 00:55:40.800 --> 00:55:45.079 helmet and then it comes to you know, over your forehead is straight line 617 00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:50.360 and then it beats the straight lines coming up from the side where the sides 618 00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:55.880 of the helmet. And so it's all been confirmed ornamental to you know, 619 00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:02.639 despite it's obviously eroded. Yeah, all archaeology, you look at look at 620 00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:07.920 pictures of the Spinx when it was first discovered or first started getting before they 621 00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:13.480 the Egyptian government fixed it up sort of terists will like it better, but 622 00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:16.159 it was really beat up when they first found it. Yeah, it was, 623 00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:21.280 I understand. Yeah, and it showed a lot of erosion and sort 624 00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:24.480 of the pyramids. The pyramids have got big chunks of the missing, you 625 00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:30.840 know, the brickwork on the outside. Part of it was they people wanted 626 00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:36.400 the marble brick, so they stole it. And this is the Arab kingdoms 627 00:56:36.440 --> 00:56:42.199 that you know, almost a thousand years ago. The things are close to 628 00:56:42.280 --> 00:56:46.519 six thousand years old, and so in fact the spinx may even be older, 629 00:56:46.679 --> 00:56:57.800 maybe ten thousand years old exactly. Yeah. So it's a so we've 630 00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:02.599 found all this stuff on Mars now and I if I get I found my 631 00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:07.920 brag a little bit. By the grace of God, I found a second 632 00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:14.880 site of Sidonian menses where the face on face and the pyramid are. I 633 00:57:14.920 --> 00:57:19.320 found a second site where there are two faces. Is this the Galactus Chaos 634 00:57:19.400 --> 00:57:23.599 area Galactus Chaos and it's funny, which is interesting. Well, yeah, 635 00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:29.480 and as and you've read the book, you know, you notice it wasn't 636 00:57:29.559 --> 00:57:34.440 named Galactus Chaos when I found the faces there. But then it got into 637 00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:42.000 NASA that I found these two new faces, and they they named it. 638 00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:45.920 It's like, you know, they named it galactus chaos, and well, 639 00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:52.239 it sounds like somebody's galaxy was thrown into chaos. We're gonna take a short 640 00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:57.519 commercial break and we will be right back with my guests today, doctor John 641 00:57:58.079 --> 00:58:40.199 Brandenburg coming to us from Texas. We'll be right back. My guest today 642 00:58:40.320 --> 00:58:44.840 is doctor John Brandon Burke, who is a plasma physicist who has done a 643 00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:49.480 great deal of work for NASA and the Department of Defense. We are learning 644 00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:57.039 about NASA's treatment of young scientists and why they are not divulging evidence, great 645 00:58:57.079 --> 00:59:07.239 evidence for archaeology of a ruined civilization on the planet Mars. John, were 646 00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:14.039 you ever reprimanded for you're writing this book? But not only that. I 647 00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:17.239 mean, you're a specialist in weapons, and we're going to talk about this 648 00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:22.719 explosion in a minute. But you told me you've never signed an NDA, 649 00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:28.599 which is nondisclosure agreement. Well, I was more exactly, I was never 650 00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:32.159 read into any nuclear weapons programs. Okay, I had been. I you 651 00:59:32.199 --> 00:59:38.079 know, that's a different level of security and and so I would the reason 652 00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:44.400 a lot of people know I'm right but won't say it. It's like Wall 653 00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:47.360 Street. Those who no don't say, and those who say don't know. 654 00:59:50.960 --> 00:59:55.079 It's that they are bound still by security ost that they can't talk about nuclear 655 00:59:55.159 --> 01:00:00.000 weapons test data and things like this. And I could even find anything in 656 01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:06.920 the open literature about results of nuclear tests like Xeno one twenty nine. I 657 01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:14.519 had to find out that the the explosion of a hydrogen bomb and the explosion 658 01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:22.199 of a supernova out in space have the same physics. It's called our process. 659 01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:27.800 And so I found about a lot of literature on our process in the 660 01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:32.320 open literature, because it's astrophysics, and you can look up on Wikipedia our 661 01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:37.199 process and it will say, well, the physics of a supernova and also 662 01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:45.159 the physics of a nuclear weapon, same physics. A super hydrogen bomb is 663 01:00:45.159 --> 01:00:52.519 a little miniature supernova basically, and they produce that the r process as its 664 01:00:52.519 --> 01:00:58.400 signature produces a big spike in Xenon one twenty nine. Okay, now that 665 01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:02.000 is that is basically beyond argument. I want I want you to talk a 666 01:01:02.039 --> 01:01:06.199 little bit about this program. You were talking about, this show that you 667 01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:08.559 saw that revealed the phase, and we were like, wow, was it 668 01:01:08.679 --> 01:01:12.960 kind of like could this be a phase? Or was it more like, 669 01:01:13.119 --> 01:01:22.639 this is new satellite imagery and we're seeing what appears to be the evidence of 670 01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:28.000 an advanced culture. But that would be pretty risky for them to say no, 671 01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:31.360 no, the petro role in ARM were quite careful in their statements, 672 01:01:31.400 --> 01:01:35.960 but they said it does look, you know, like archaeology. This looks 673 01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:40.400 like archaeology. They use that language in their paper. Oh yes, okay, 674 01:01:40.599 --> 01:01:45.519 so they were at least it to other scientists. What was the reaction 675 01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:52.599 of the scientific community to Petri and Molnard's They actually got a quite enthusiastic response, 676 01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:58.360 a lot of interest. However, it's one thing for scientists to show 677 01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:02.639 up for your lecture and ask a lot of questions, and it's quite another 678 01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:12.440 for them to say what they really think in public. Because of the overpowering 679 01:02:13.119 --> 01:02:17.320 culture of NASA that says you're not supposed to talk about if you find it. 680 01:02:17.679 --> 01:02:23.119 Says in the Brooking Institute that you might find artifacts produced by dead civilizations 681 01:02:23.119 --> 01:02:29.440 on the moon of Bars, don't talk about it. Could do great, 682 01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:36.840 I know it. It has. It's had a paralyzing effect on You can 683 01:02:36.920 --> 01:02:43.239 also say, let's say hypothetically there is a UFO cover up that the US 684 01:02:43.360 --> 01:02:47.440 government knows we're not alone in the universe, and that aliens are visiting this 685 01:02:47.559 --> 01:02:57.280 place, living aliens flying advanced spaceships. Then any discussion of that is forbidden 686 01:02:57.400 --> 01:03:02.559 by the Defense Department. And if they find a dead civilization on Mars, 687 01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:08.000 you can consider the Mars is a sub chapter of the UFO cover up. 688 01:03:09.719 --> 01:03:15.360 I SOT, it's all the extraterrestural cover up. If they pick up signals 689 01:03:15.400 --> 01:03:20.480 from some you know, place nearby or something, you know, some galaxy 690 01:03:20.559 --> 01:03:24.840 you know, uh, they'll the the The government now has a whole department 691 01:03:24.840 --> 01:03:29.639 at the Pentagon that says, oh, that's one of ours sending encrypted messages. 692 01:03:29.719 --> 01:03:34.519 No, you can't understand it because it's it's been encrypted, and yeah, 693 01:03:34.559 --> 01:03:37.760 you know, it's one of ours. And then they said, well, 694 01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:40.840 it doesn't move around like a satellite, it's just what from this one 695 01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:45.599 star And they said, oh, you haven't measured it, right, we 696 01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:50.159 know better? Yeah, so so and it's like and it's like, do 697 01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:52.559 you want any more money from us? Yeah? Exactly. You're making a 698 01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:58.000 very good point because finance is huge. When the scientific community, so they 699 01:03:58.039 --> 01:04:00.280 control it. My money gets controlled by and that's going to shut a lot 700 01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:04.880 of mouse because no one has the millions and billions of dollars it takes to 701 01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:13.159 put together a science research program. It's it's just yeah. They when I 702 01:04:13.199 --> 01:04:17.480 worked at the University of Central Florida. I they told me when I was 703 01:04:17.519 --> 01:04:28.199 at Livermore that academia was very cutthroat and to get funding for grants, you 704 01:04:28.239 --> 01:04:31.920 mean, oh, oh yeah, you will do You will kill somebody in 705 01:04:31.960 --> 01:04:41.159 the hallway of your department and to make sure you get your they're not competing 706 01:04:41.159 --> 01:04:45.800 with you for a grant, you know. And if the department head finds 707 01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:48.639 out that you actually knife this person in the hallway when nobody else was looking, 708 01:04:49.719 --> 01:04:54.840 he'll approve. He said, well, you're the right kind of material. 709 01:04:54.960 --> 01:04:58.559 John, We wanted this department. Oh boy, I wanted to talk 710 01:04:58.639 --> 01:05:01.840 real briefly about you gotta have a sense of humor about this stuff. I 711 01:05:02.239 --> 01:05:05.719 know, I can imagine you've been living this for your your entire adult life. 712 01:05:06.360 --> 01:05:12.559 I want to talk real briefly about your work as an independent scientist and 713 01:05:12.880 --> 01:05:18.079 this collection of scientists headed up by Richard Hoagland, the independent Mars Research in 714 01:05:18.239 --> 01:05:24.400 independent Mars investigation team. Yes, it was. How many scientists were I 715 01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:28.639 mean, these are all people that basically bought into this early Viking imagery. 716 01:05:29.239 --> 01:05:31.679 Yes, and there were no at that time. And we're going to talk 717 01:05:31.679 --> 01:05:36.320 about the analysis that you discovered in the atmosphere of Mars, But the collection 718 01:05:36.480 --> 01:05:43.199 of scientists that Hogland pulled together, what was the goal, what was the 719 01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:47.280 theme? What was the ultimate theme he wanted to get? You know, 720 01:05:47.360 --> 01:05:53.880 he was a journalist himself. Guy's brilliant, but he's more of a journalist 721 01:05:53.960 --> 01:06:00.440 than a scientist, and he pulled together a bunch of scientists and engine nears 722 01:06:00.920 --> 01:06:03.039 to investigate this, and a lot of them felt the same way I did. 723 01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:06.679 They felt like, gosh, if we find a dead civilization on Mars, 724 01:06:06.960 --> 01:06:12.440 it might end help help end the Cold War before we blow ourselves up. 725 01:06:12.920 --> 01:06:15.239 Okay, So it was there was a lot of self interest involved in 726 01:06:15.280 --> 01:06:18.880 this. We wanted to end the Cold War somehow, and we thought this 727 01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:21.920 would be a good way. I want to just mention that in your book, 728 01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:27.840 you talk about your challenge deciding to work with Homeland because you knew there 729 01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:33.840 were great risks, because you could lose the ability to be hired by NASA 730 01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:41.320 contractors or themselves. Oh yeah. I was very aware that a lot of 731 01:06:41.360 --> 01:06:46.159 people considered this not something that a serious scientists should be interested in. Yeah, 732 01:06:46.239 --> 01:06:50.400 I mean, you know, obviously the official line said, there's nothing 733 01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:56.039 on Mars. Who are you going to believe us or your lying eyes? 734 01:06:56.199 --> 01:07:00.400 You know, and and we'll say, well I believe you, sir. 735 01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:05.039 Yeah. And the thing John now you're now you're talking. Yeah. And 736 01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:13.719 so I considered that I might be risking my entire career. But I've just 737 01:07:13.800 --> 01:07:18.239 gone through this big Cold War scare, and I just my gosh, was 738 01:07:18.320 --> 01:07:24.800 married to this lovely woman and we just we had a young child's all grown 739 01:07:24.920 --> 01:07:34.280 up now has grandchildren, you know, two two beautiful daughters, and I 740 01:07:34.440 --> 01:07:41.559 just, you know, finally I kind of fell back on my religious faith. 741 01:07:42.159 --> 01:07:44.559 You know. It's like, what am I supposed to do? Why 742 01:07:44.599 --> 01:07:50.760 am I here? Why am I here? And um So I after much 743 01:07:50.840 --> 01:07:55.559 thought and reflection and prayer, I decided, Okay, I'm going to be 744 01:07:55.599 --> 01:08:00.760 in on this because I want to help end the Cold War and I thought 745 01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:06.280 this would be a good way to do it. And so I did it. 746 01:08:08.840 --> 01:08:12.559 And rather than ending my career, as I mentioned, it turned me 747 01:08:12.559 --> 01:08:21.000 into a space cadet, which meant I actually and there's there was a sense, 748 01:08:21.079 --> 01:08:26.039 Okay, Brandenburg is doing kookie stuff, and people who didn't like me 749 01:08:26.359 --> 01:08:30.439 used it against me. They say, Brandenbury talks to Martians. But most 750 01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:36.760 of the scientists I worked with, this one guy just looked at all the 751 01:08:36.840 --> 01:08:45.079 pictures, especially from Black's Chaos and and Sidonia, and he says it stops 752 01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:49.880 just short of being convincing. He says, you know, so he I 753 01:08:49.920 --> 01:08:54.600 mean, what is he seeing? Scientists I worked with who knew me, 754 01:08:55.239 --> 01:08:59.520 knew I was, you know, a good scientist, respected what I had 755 01:08:59.560 --> 01:09:08.479 done, and um the so I, by the grace of God, my 756 01:09:08.600 --> 01:09:19.439 career was not destroyed, and I managed to gain credibility scientific I was scientifically 757 01:09:19.479 --> 01:09:28.840 credible enough that people said, well, Brandenberg, you know, it's it's 758 01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:31.319 unusual what he's talking about on Mars. But he's not a coup, he's 759 01:09:31.319 --> 01:09:36.000 not a nut. Well you're giving them scientific evidence, real, real quickly. 760 01:09:36.239 --> 01:09:43.199 I I have not found any papers that the collective, the independent Mars 761 01:09:43.239 --> 01:09:47.239 research team put together, but I would think that Hogland may have submitted not 762 01:09:47.319 --> 01:09:57.600 only papers directly to mailand at NASA, but also to other mail talk. 763 01:09:57.760 --> 01:10:00.399 We'll talk about mailand in a minute. But wasn't there a couple of papers 764 01:10:00.399 --> 01:10:08.119 that you guys put together as a collector. Yeah, we went to a 765 01:10:08.279 --> 01:10:15.760 conference in Boulder called the Mars Underground. Basically, the kind of official line 766 01:10:15.800 --> 01:10:23.359 in NASA was that we tested for life at Mars. We didn't find any, 767 01:10:23.640 --> 01:10:32.680 which turned out to not really be true. They so they a bunch 768 01:10:32.680 --> 01:10:38.920 of scientists though, were so intrigued by what they'd found on Viking that they 769 01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:43.199 started what was called the Mars Underground. It was a bunch of it was 770 01:10:43.239 --> 01:10:46.000 a bunch of university professors and they just wanted to talk about Mars science. 771 01:10:46.880 --> 01:10:53.039 And so we actually put in a paper to this conference in Boulder, Colorado, 772 01:10:53.119 --> 01:11:00.159 and went up and presented it. Now, if anybody has copies of 773 01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:09.279 the actual original proceedings, there's our paper. Okay, and you remember what 774 01:11:09.279 --> 01:11:13.039 the paper was, John, what was the rough idea of the paper? 775 01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:20.840 The title was um Unusual Objects photographed on Mars, New thoughts about old data. 776 01:11:21.079 --> 01:11:26.359 And we we presented the fact that we found this other site that glass 777 01:11:26.439 --> 01:11:31.199 chaos and had another face, and we had the pyramid and the face and 778 01:11:31.960 --> 01:11:39.000 this was just mesmerizing to all these sciencests, and you know, so they 779 01:11:39.319 --> 01:11:43.239 they on one sense if if you ask them what do you think of this? 780 01:11:43.359 --> 01:11:45.000 Or I said, well, I don't know, I don't know. 781 01:11:45.560 --> 01:11:49.199 But they're staring at it all. There's just staring at it. And but 782 01:11:49.399 --> 01:11:55.520 the uh, one of the things you got to understand that goes on in 783 01:11:55.520 --> 01:12:04.279 the background. There's a long running feud between JPL and NASA. Johnson or 784 01:12:04.319 --> 01:12:12.359 as I call it, Houston or Pasadena. Pasadena wants to do everything robotically, 785 01:12:14.359 --> 01:12:16.640 and of course Houston is a man flight's space flight. They want to 786 01:12:16.640 --> 01:12:25.840 send people to Mars, and there's all of this tension between those and we 787 01:12:25.960 --> 01:12:30.680 have gotten far more support from the man space flight people than we have from 788 01:12:30.760 --> 01:12:36.239 the JPL crowd. Why do you suspect that's the way it is? Oh, 789 01:12:36.359 --> 01:12:40.479 it's partly just self interest. I mean, I'll just say, Okay, 790 01:12:40.520 --> 01:12:43.479 we find a dead civilization of Mars and we got to send astronauts. 791 01:12:44.920 --> 01:12:47.079 You could drive rovers all around, you know, around some of these sites 792 01:12:47.119 --> 01:12:51.760 for a year not see anything because it's all buried five people at the surface. 793 01:12:53.000 --> 01:12:59.319 And Whitley Strieber, the science fiction writer, had a what he heard 794 01:12:59.640 --> 01:13:05.399 was a real statement by a JPL official At some meeting to JPL, people 795 01:13:05.439 --> 01:13:14.600 were screaming at each other, and this one JPL managers says to his other 796 01:13:14.840 --> 01:13:18.399 his fellow, He says, don't you realize that life on Mars means death 797 01:13:18.479 --> 01:13:26.000 for JPL. Oh yeah, because it means that Mars, which has been 798 01:13:26.079 --> 01:13:30.039 a golden buffet, all you can eat buffet for the Mars community, run 799 01:13:30.079 --> 01:13:34.800 out of JPL. Mostly, it would end up being run by Houston bunch 800 01:13:34.840 --> 01:13:39.399 of cowboys, cow shit on their boots. So you're saying that they would, 801 01:13:39.439 --> 01:13:42.359 You're right, because they get foots on the feet on the ground in 802 01:13:42.479 --> 01:13:46.960 Mars six the rovers, Oh yeah, they wouldn't need rovers anymore. They 803 01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:54.439 have people roving around. I hear you interesting, and so they this is 804 01:13:55.960 --> 01:14:01.239 part of what's going on is just a regular old organizational feud within NASA, 805 01:14:02.399 --> 01:14:13.479 and JPL regularly doesn't follow orders from NASA headquarters. They if if if, 806 01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:16.079 if Bush comes to shove. They said, well, we're part of Caltech. 807 01:14:16.479 --> 01:14:20.960 You know, you know it's such a huge thought. You just really 808 01:14:21.680 --> 01:14:30.680 gave me a light bulb in this protective nature that you're telling us JPL has 809 01:14:30.680 --> 01:14:34.119 that they don't want to show ruins. They don't want to. They don't 810 01:14:34.119 --> 01:14:42.319 want to turn that camera on and and show this the destruction of machines and 811 01:14:42.600 --> 01:14:46.319 all these parts that come up in images, because if people find that's an 812 01:14:46.319 --> 01:14:51.159 of interest, screw the rover we want. We wanted to get people up, 813 01:14:51.199 --> 01:14:56.359 but we have people up. Were archaeologists and engineers looking through all this 814 01:14:56.479 --> 01:15:00.119 stuff and yeah, all and they just hear. And you got to remember 815 01:15:00.439 --> 01:15:05.560 it's too you know, you've got to swashbuckling, you know, former fighter 816 01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:13.159 pilot kind of test pilot mentality. That's Houston's. I love them so much 817 01:15:13.159 --> 01:15:16.600 as a bunch of astronauts, yeah, versus a bunch of tweety kind of 818 01:15:16.640 --> 01:15:23.399 college professor types, you know, um, you know, sitting in a 819 01:15:23.560 --> 01:15:30.840 nice corner offices at JPL in Pasadena. So that's funny. It's it's it's 820 01:15:30.359 --> 01:15:34.399 and I understand it. I understand. I'm a team player. I always 821 01:15:34.439 --> 01:15:40.640 try to be a team player on things. By the way, if somebody 822 01:15:40.920 --> 01:15:45.640 I prepared myself for the fact that somebody might come tap me on the shoulder, 823 01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:49.399 say doctor Brandaburt, we don't want you working on this anymore, talking 824 01:15:49.439 --> 01:15:53.840 about it anymore. I've been waiting for you to say something like, you 825 01:15:53.880 --> 01:15:57.920 know, never at the tap on the shoulder never happened. I mean, 826 01:15:58.000 --> 01:16:00.800 no knock on the door from Simmon Intelligence. No, no, no. 827 01:16:02.079 --> 01:16:10.640 In fact, we found that members of the intelligence community community privately encouraging us. 828 01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:14.840 Tell me about that. What does that mean? Well, like Mark 829 01:16:14.920 --> 01:16:20.600 Carlotto, it's just he did satellite imagery for the Pentagon and he had this 830 01:16:21.079 --> 01:16:26.039 one interesting encounter. He's sitting down at the Pentagon at this desk and beans 831 01:16:26.159 --> 01:16:30.079 sealing, and he had done a lot of work on the Mars thing in 832 01:16:30.279 --> 01:16:36.600 marspace and pyramid, and this Air Force colonel walked up to him and said, 833 01:16:38.399 --> 01:16:41.640 you know, we're aware of your work on Mars. Keep it up. 834 01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:45.439 It's good. It's good work. So rather than getting a tap on 835 01:16:45.479 --> 01:16:50.439 the shoulder and told you know, John Mark, we don't want you talking 836 01:16:50.439 --> 01:16:55.920 about this anymore. You know that's so. And by the way, and 837 01:16:55.960 --> 01:17:01.239 that that's that's happened to me. I came over over one great idea and 838 01:17:01.399 --> 01:17:04.920 I got it to work in the lab and I did a lot of theory 839 01:17:04.960 --> 01:17:10.000 on it. And then one day the Air Force came up to me. 840 01:17:10.479 --> 01:17:15.359 Their first officer said, doctor Branbert, we don't want you working on that 841 01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:19.520 anymore, and we can't tell you why. And I said, I said, 842 01:17:19.520 --> 01:17:24.039 well, it's if the program had gone black. It was so successful. 843 01:17:24.439 --> 01:17:28.840 My work was so successful that apparently the concept had gone black and there 844 01:17:28.920 --> 01:17:33.319 was now a classified, highly fassified program. There was an account that Carl 845 01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:39.079 Sagan was trying to show pictures of the faces in the Twope of Viking, 846 01:17:39.119 --> 01:17:43.000 pictures of the faces on Mars to an official at NASA, and the guy 847 01:17:43.159 --> 01:17:49.039 covered his face and wouldn't look at them. He san, he's covering. 848 01:17:50.039 --> 01:18:00.520 Sagan was trying to show an official at NASA. Wow, the pictures and 849 01:18:00.760 --> 01:18:06.159 the NASA or he was a no, he wasn't a NASSA officials planetary society 850 01:18:06.680 --> 01:18:13.159 that Sagan belonged to. Here's this other hancho at this planetary society. This 851 01:18:13.279 --> 01:18:17.159 is a very academic, you know. And the guy covered his face, 852 01:18:17.359 --> 01:18:21.640 covered his eyes, who refused to look at the pictures, pictures away, 853 01:18:21.920 --> 01:18:27.600 I want, I don't want to see them. And amazing, it's so 854 01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:33.039 even Carl Sagan could not get people to look at these pictures because they didn't 855 01:18:33.119 --> 01:18:40.520 want to see that this thing was archaeology. Yeah, I want you to 856 01:18:40.560 --> 01:18:48.199 talk about the Galaxus Galaxus chaos real quickly. You discovered this and was this 857 01:18:48.239 --> 01:18:53.039 brought up to the Hoagland team and we yes, yes, it was, 858 01:18:53.159 --> 01:18:55.039 Yes, it was. Okay, so I want you to talk a little 859 01:18:55.079 --> 01:18:58.000 bit about because this is, by the way, a great account of the 860 01:18:58.600 --> 01:19:04.720 Hogeland teams work was in UM the Face on Mars by Pozos. Okay, 861 01:19:04.880 --> 01:19:09.359 he has all of the stuff on the you know, the independent Mars investigator. 862 01:19:09.399 --> 01:19:13.880 We all. Here's the other thing we found out before we go any 863 01:19:13.880 --> 01:19:19.159 further. We found out later the headquarters for the EMMET team was not in 864 01:19:19.319 --> 01:19:27.319 cart not in uh Dick Hoglan's office. It was actually at Stanford Research Institute, 865 01:19:27.960 --> 01:19:30.319 SRI. I want to ask you about this, and it was just 866 01:19:30.439 --> 01:19:36.079 down the hall from the remote viewing people. Okay, well that's very interesting. 867 01:19:36.479 --> 01:19:41.159 We were actually part of the remote viewing Thank you for thank you for 868 01:19:41.199 --> 01:19:44.439 bringing that up. You know you write about and we have not talked about 869 01:19:44.479 --> 01:19:48.439 this. You were in this, You were meeting at the Stanford Research Institute 870 01:19:48.560 --> 01:19:57.439 in Colalto. Who got that? I mean, that's a very prestigious Who 871 01:19:57.800 --> 01:20:02.520 Oakland get in there? Who got in apparently Hogeland recruited two guys who just 872 01:20:02.600 --> 01:20:10.520 happened to be from Sri and apparently Sri management was very supportive. And this 873 01:20:10.680 --> 01:20:16.079 explains to me why I never got a tap on the shoulder. The US 874 01:20:16.199 --> 01:20:24.199 government and a sense gave its implicit approval for this research just by the fact 875 01:20:24.279 --> 01:20:28.319 that they they didn't try and stop us. They could have stopped us. 876 01:20:28.319 --> 01:20:31.920 They could have just told me there must have been somewhere someone in the high 877 01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:39.880 levels that are seeing We're gonna let these scientists go ahead and do their uncover 878 01:20:40.840 --> 01:20:46.560 what they probably knew was the evidence of a long dead civilization. But the 879 01:20:46.680 --> 01:20:51.199 sad thing is that after you guys finished your work, it kind of went 880 01:20:51.319 --> 01:21:00.399 dark. Well, what happened was we'd had a grant of use of this 881 01:21:00.520 --> 01:21:06.720 kind of pre internet Internet that we were using, and the money for that 882 01:21:06.840 --> 01:21:13.680 dried up. We basically completed an initial investigation. So I want to I 883 01:21:13.760 --> 01:21:19.800 want to drill down a little bit into the archay lot archaeology of glactus Galactus 884 01:21:20.319 --> 01:21:26.279 chaos, because I've only seen the faces that you discover, the two little 885 01:21:26.319 --> 01:21:30.159 faces. Is there? I mean, and you you also understood there's there's 886 01:21:30.279 --> 01:21:35.279 what looks like ruins, So is it close to the shores of the paleo 887 01:21:35.359 --> 01:21:40.760 ocean. That's yeah, it was close to the shore. It's um um. 888 01:21:40.840 --> 01:21:47.000 The two faces are along a cliff line, and then if you go 889 01:21:47.119 --> 01:21:53.560 up on the you know, the top of the cliff, you see all 890 01:21:53.600 --> 01:21:59.000 of this fine structure meeting ruins or rubble, and then it gets all very 891 01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:03.239 smooth from the edge. So that means that the watch where the water met 892 01:22:03.279 --> 01:22:08.840 the land. That was where the water metal land. And it looks like 893 01:22:09.000 --> 01:22:14.560 they built a small city around this river flowing through the middle of town. 894 01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:18.079 Was there an intimation? It all looks very kind of primitive and ancient. 895 01:22:18.199 --> 01:22:21.479 That's why people ask me, are you sure this wasn't the Vands technology. 896 01:22:21.680 --> 01:22:25.560 I said, gee, it sure doesn't look like it. It looks like 897 01:22:25.600 --> 01:22:29.920 it's all primitive, fairly stone age. I know, we talk about that, 898 01:22:29.960 --> 01:22:32.000 but we're gonna We're gonna you and I always go back on fourth on 899 01:22:32.039 --> 01:22:35.680 this. It's a very important point. What was the level of technology. 900 01:22:35.840 --> 01:22:41.600 It's a it's a challenge, Okay, So I want to jump into the 901 01:22:41.720 --> 01:22:50.119 evidence of perhaps Mars's ultimate destruction and your discovery of this thermal nuclear explosion. 902 01:22:50.199 --> 01:23:00.239 Now where let's let's go back to the discussion where your in line, doing 903 01:23:00.239 --> 01:23:04.119 it, ready to copy an article or something. Yes, And the conversation 904 01:23:04.199 --> 01:23:10.000 comes up that there is uh, this zon one twenty nine, this uh, 905 01:23:10.840 --> 01:23:18.199 this isotope that is in the atmosphere of Mars, and you're casually talking 906 01:23:18.239 --> 01:23:23.920 about it, and you're in the same room with a weapons expert. Yes, 907 01:23:24.279 --> 01:23:29.399 and this guy listens to what you have to say and without you look 908 01:23:29.439 --> 01:23:32.520 at you, look at the graph, look at he I was trying to 909 01:23:32.600 --> 01:23:36.600 xerox in those days. You couldn't download stuff. You had to go just 910 01:23:36.640 --> 01:23:41.720 go to the library and xerox things. And yeah, you know, and 911 01:23:43.479 --> 01:23:47.840 we got the job done, you know. And so I'm standing there in 912 01:23:47.960 --> 01:23:51.359 line with about ten people to get to the xerox machine. And he's a 913 01:23:51.479 --> 01:23:58.960 very genial, friendly kind of character. And I said, and he's looking 914 01:23:59.000 --> 01:24:04.079 at the book it's Scientific Results of the Mars Viking Expedition. And I said, 915 01:24:04.079 --> 01:24:06.319 well, I'm doing some research on Mars. And he says, oh, 916 01:24:06.359 --> 01:24:10.840 what are you interested in? And show him the picture shows this graph 917 01:24:10.960 --> 01:24:14.640 with this big spike at Zeen one one twenty nine, which is not present 918 01:24:14.720 --> 01:24:21.199 in the Earth's atmosphere, and his smile vanished. And he said somebody knewked 919 01:24:21.239 --> 01:24:27.560 them. He just looked at me, and then suddenly he looked around. 920 01:24:27.600 --> 01:24:31.399 He realized he's an unclassified area. It's the library, and you know, 921 01:24:31.520 --> 01:24:36.680 he said something that might possibly be classified. He got the hell out of 922 01:24:36.680 --> 01:24:39.880 there quick. I guess, oh, yeah, he just said, excuse 923 01:24:39.960 --> 01:24:43.079 me, put down the book. He was going to xerox, and just 924 01:24:43.199 --> 01:24:45.439 left the line. Did he ever come back to you after that statement, 925 01:24:45.479 --> 01:24:47.560 did you? No? No? No, I never saw him again. 926 01:24:47.680 --> 01:24:55.279 He knew he overstepped his balance, right, He had made a spontaneous remark, 927 01:24:57.600 --> 01:25:04.439 and he realized he had said something considered sensitive in an unclassified area, 928 01:25:04.600 --> 01:25:13.199 so he immediately excused himself. It happened occasionally at you know, both laboratories 929 01:25:13.199 --> 01:25:15.800 I'd work for. People would suddenly say something and then they said, oh 930 01:25:15.960 --> 01:25:18.960 I didn't I didn't say that. You know, yeah, are they turning? 931 01:25:19.359 --> 01:25:24.640 Actually I shouldn't talk about that in this area because it's an unclassified area. 932 01:25:27.119 --> 01:25:30.039 We're gonna take a short commercial break and give our sponsors a chance to 933 01:25:30.159 --> 01:25:38.359 identify themselves, and we will return with doctor John Brandenburg discussing his work on 934 01:25:38.560 --> 01:25:45.680 variety of NASA projects, as well as the state of affairs in the continual 935 01:25:46.760 --> 01:26:30.039 dialogue regarding Mars. We'll be right back. My guest today is doctor John 936 01:26:30.079 --> 01:26:34.359 Brandenburgh, who is the author of Death on Mars, a look at the 937 01:26:34.720 --> 01:26:42.439 ancient history of Mars, what appears to be a nuclear or multiple nuclear explosions, 938 01:26:42.880 --> 01:26:46.920 and the ultimate destruction of an ancient race that lived millions of years ago 939 01:26:47.000 --> 01:26:54.960 on the surface of the planet. Talk a little bit about the fact that 940 01:26:55.079 --> 01:27:00.000 he was also part of a group that monitored Earth's atmosphere for had a big 941 01:27:00.119 --> 01:27:05.119 what was that called what is it called? It's still around right, Oh, 942 01:27:05.199 --> 01:27:11.199 yeah, when when like North Korea sets off a nuclear weapon. Yeah, 943 01:27:11.319 --> 01:27:16.039 they actually fly airplanes around to pick up the dish, Yeah, to 944 01:27:16.079 --> 01:27:21.279 pick up the trace gases in the atmosphere, and they analyze and most of 945 01:27:21.319 --> 01:27:26.920 the gases that are interested in ENEE twenty nine is stable, does not radioactive, 946 01:27:27.600 --> 01:27:31.199 but most of the gases that are interested in are radioactive, so they're 947 01:27:31.199 --> 01:27:38.439 easy, they're easy to spot, Okay, and so they but they they've 948 01:27:38.479 --> 01:27:45.039 done an enormous amount of work on what is the telltale signed nuclear weapon being 949 01:27:45.079 --> 01:27:49.920 tested because some people for a while, people were testing nuclear weapons and not 950 01:27:50.039 --> 01:27:56.600 telling anybody. So this is a way to find out who's letting blowing up 951 01:27:57.359 --> 01:28:01.680 sample air if you see a bunch of the xenon and isotopes, they were 952 01:28:01.720 --> 01:28:06.880 mostly interested were unstable, you know, they're slightly radioactive. But also the 953 01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:12.840 xenon one twenty nine was a sure sign of the nuclear weapon going off, 954 01:28:14.399 --> 01:28:21.960 and so they they would monitor the air for that, and they've gotten really 955 01:28:23.000 --> 01:28:28.119 good at it. They had a whole group studying it. And so how 956 01:28:28.119 --> 01:28:30.319 do you capture zon Do you have to fly in a plane and pick it 957 01:28:30.399 --> 01:28:33.920 up in some kind of Okay, you can't do it from the ground. 958 01:28:36.000 --> 01:28:41.399 Oh, if you're close to a nuclear test, you could probably do it. 959 01:28:41.399 --> 01:28:46.560 When they there's some data in the literature that I believe was actually collected 960 01:28:46.640 --> 01:28:51.239 right at a nuclear weapon site where they set off a nuclear bomb on Cower 961 01:28:51.960 --> 01:28:58.520 and measure the air afterwards, and it shows the xenon one twenty nine spike, 962 01:29:00.720 --> 01:29:04.279 and you know, and and they just they just published it without comment, 963 01:29:04.560 --> 01:29:09.920 you know, and they published it, you know, in a scientific 964 01:29:10.039 --> 01:29:14.800 journal without comment. Uh, well, it was it was a part of 965 01:29:14.840 --> 01:29:23.439 the uh. The place I saw it was a bunch of air samples taken 966 01:29:23.479 --> 01:29:30.479 in different years by different workers and what you can see in the Earth's atmosphere 967 01:29:30.640 --> 01:29:36.680 is zen on one twenty nine has risen slightly because of not only hydrogen bomb 968 01:29:36.800 --> 01:29:45.439 testing, but also plutonium production makes some zen on one twenty nine and um, 969 01:29:46.199 --> 01:29:50.600 so it's it's not as big a deal as when a hydrogen bomb goes 970 01:29:50.640 --> 01:29:56.279 off, but it does when you're making plutonium to make atomic and hydrogen bombs 971 01:29:57.079 --> 01:30:03.920 as a trigger, then you actually do see that, and so are the 972 01:30:03.960 --> 01:30:09.640 amount of C one twenty nine in our air that was measured before World War 973 01:30:09.680 --> 01:30:17.399 Two has gone up about five parts per million over what it was when they 974 01:30:17.439 --> 01:30:25.119 made measurements. I have measurements by the same guy in nineteen thirty seven just 975 01:30:25.199 --> 01:30:31.560 before World War two. Then after World War two it's Z one twenty nine 976 01:30:31.560 --> 01:30:36.640 has risen slightly. And then finally in nineteen seventy when all the nuclear weapons 977 01:30:36.720 --> 01:30:43.359 open air testing was done and so was splatonium production by both sides, and 978 01:30:43.560 --> 01:30:45.600 you can see that it's gone up about five parts per million. It was 979 01:30:45.760 --> 01:30:50.880 it was easy to measure. I'm very curious about this. I mean, 980 01:30:50.920 --> 01:30:57.439 you explained to zon one twenty nine. Yeah, you got documents from what 981 01:30:57.520 --> 01:31:00.520 was it, what was collecting the zon was it the Viking mission or was 982 01:31:00.560 --> 01:31:06.880 it Viking Viking mission? They had also now the Mars Science Lab on for 983 01:31:08.239 --> 01:31:13.000 one of the rovers. They verified all the Viking We had two Viking Landers 984 01:31:13.159 --> 01:31:18.800 had really good sensors on them, and um spot of the zero nine. 985 01:31:19.279 --> 01:31:26.880 My question real quickly that John, is they made this available to anybody the 986 01:31:27.039 --> 01:31:35.399 stadium. Yes, weird, So they didn't know what most people, not 987 01:31:35.560 --> 01:31:43.079 even I, even though I was a trained scientist, was aware of the 988 01:31:43.960 --> 01:31:48.520 implications of it. Okay, So only people who were in the nuclear weapons 989 01:31:48.560 --> 01:31:58.800 community could actually understand what this meant. Okay, so you discover there's high 990 01:31:59.319 --> 01:32:03.960 levels of of this Z one twenty nine. How high was the level was? 991 01:32:04.000 --> 01:32:11.760 It was like two and a half time on Earth, just to every 992 01:32:11.800 --> 01:32:15.119 other major reservoir of the Solar System. We're talking the planet Jupiter, where 993 01:32:15.159 --> 01:32:19.479 they put a probe into the planet Jupiter and measured everything Zenon et cetera, 994 01:32:20.359 --> 01:32:26.239 and the solar wind. They've measured that they get meteorites to fall out of 995 01:32:26.279 --> 01:32:30.640 space, they grind them up and heat them and get the gas out of 996 01:32:30.680 --> 01:32:35.359 them. And if you look at the Earth's atmosphere, every place in the 997 01:32:35.359 --> 01:32:44.720 Solar System that they measure zenon one twenty nine and zenon one thirty two. 998 01:32:44.760 --> 01:32:49.920 The abundances that are almost exactly one one to one, except on Mars, 999 01:32:50.479 --> 01:32:58.199 where it's two and a half times more so is this problem? Is it 1000 01:32:58.279 --> 01:33:02.319 a problem if you're uh by, if you're a human being and you're able 1001 01:33:02.359 --> 01:33:09.079 to walk on the planet Mars, is that uh deadly to the toh No, 1002 01:33:09.079 --> 01:33:14.279 no, no, it's it's it's it's a trace gas in the atmosphere. 1003 01:33:15.439 --> 01:33:19.239 On Earth. You can actually use zenon as an anesthetic. Uh, 1004 01:33:19.279 --> 01:33:24.600 you know, but you have to have almost one hundred percent zenon um and 1005 01:33:24.680 --> 01:33:29.239 they use it in flashbulbs. It's very expensive because it's very rare. Okay, 1006 01:33:29.439 --> 01:33:35.840 but it has it has a lot of uses scientifically besides um um, 1007 01:33:35.880 --> 01:33:42.680 you know, just being in the air and um. What's interesting about zenon 1008 01:33:43.000 --> 01:33:47.319 is that it doesn't react with anything, so once it gets into the atmosphere 1009 01:33:47.319 --> 01:33:50.520 of Mars, it just stays there. So it's been there for a long 1010 01:33:50.600 --> 01:33:57.119 time. Yeah, you talk about that um is the so that's it's got 1011 01:33:57.159 --> 01:34:05.720 a very high concentration of this. Is there any natural way to generate zones? 1012 01:34:06.399 --> 01:34:11.560 Yes? Because this has been a criticism of yours is. I think 1013 01:34:11.600 --> 01:34:15.439 some people are saying, well, he's got it wrong, because the planet 1014 01:34:15.560 --> 01:34:19.680 can create this, and this is something that has been part of the planet 1015 01:34:19.680 --> 01:34:25.520 for years. But real quickly explain why that doesn't work. No, if 1016 01:34:25.520 --> 01:34:30.399 you look at the literature, they freely admit that this is a mystery. 1017 01:34:30.840 --> 01:34:34.560 That the xenon one twenty nine. I mean, the same processes that occurred 1018 01:34:34.600 --> 01:34:39.840 on Mars apparently occurred on Earth and in the Sun, and you know, 1019 01:34:42.079 --> 01:34:47.479 on in Jupiter, and they gave equal amounts of one twenty nine and one 1020 01:34:47.600 --> 01:34:53.560 thirty two to two isotopes, but on Mars you got two and a half 1021 01:34:53.640 --> 01:34:59.720 times more en one twenty nine than one thirty two. This is just outrageously 1022 01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:10.560 different, and that it is. They have actually a very closely studied meteorite 1023 01:35:10.560 --> 01:35:15.319 that has dust, cosmic dust in that predates the Solar System. When they 1024 01:35:15.359 --> 01:35:19.640 grind it up and heat it, it releases the gas, including xenon, 1025 01:35:20.119 --> 01:35:25.159 and it has a big spike at one twenty nine. And everybody knows that 1026 01:35:25.159 --> 01:35:30.000 this meteorite never went to Mars. It predates the Solar System, and it's 1027 01:35:30.079 --> 01:35:34.520 from a supernovel. Okay. And when I was at Livermore, they used 1028 01:35:34.560 --> 01:35:43.359 the same computer programs to analyze supernova explosions as they did hydrogen bomb explosions. 1029 01:35:44.039 --> 01:35:47.720 So physics is the same. So so now also I want you also to 1030 01:35:47.800 --> 01:35:57.800 know that the surface of Mars recently was heavily irradiated with neutrons. What does 1031 01:35:57.840 --> 01:36:01.680 that mean, Well, that's when hydrogen bomb goes off. You know, 1032 01:36:01.720 --> 01:36:08.520 it's a neutron partly a neutron bombay praise everything with neutrons, and that creates 1033 01:36:08.560 --> 01:36:14.399 a pattern of isotopes and it affects particularly nitrogen in the air. The nitrogen 1034 01:36:14.479 --> 01:36:18.560 on Mars is shifted towards nitrogen fifteen, which is typical after a nuclear weapon 1035 01:36:18.640 --> 01:36:24.560 goes off. They see that on Earth. And then then then there's also 1036 01:36:25.560 --> 01:36:31.479 um it created a radioact. Two radioactive spots on Mars. One is near 1037 01:36:31.560 --> 01:36:36.920 the face on Mars at Sidonia Menza. The other one is near Galaxis Chaos, 1038 01:36:38.159 --> 01:36:44.039 the two sites of apparently the centers of the civilization that used to exist 1039 01:36:44.079 --> 01:36:48.000 on Mars. So it's yeah, whoever dropped these bombs did them on major 1040 01:36:49.199 --> 01:36:56.319 popular They didn't drop them directly, They dropped them above ground. I mean 1041 01:36:56.359 --> 01:37:00.279 they went off in mid air. That's the thing this thing does not look 1042 01:37:00.399 --> 01:37:04.880 natural at all. There is no natural phenomenon. Yeah, talk about the 1043 01:37:04.920 --> 01:37:10.239 signature of the actual bomb. You found this, Well, here's here's one 1044 01:37:10.239 --> 01:37:13.920 of the things the bomb. When you start off a hydrogen bomb in mid 1045 01:37:13.920 --> 01:37:18.920 air, and like at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they didn't drop the bombs and 1046 01:37:18.960 --> 01:37:21.479 have them hit the ground and blow up. They blew up in mid air. 1047 01:37:21.800 --> 01:37:30.039 Oh. Interest that matts creates maximum shockwaves and maximum fallout that spreads around. 1048 01:37:30.239 --> 01:37:33.640 So and you do that up wind of where the place is you want 1049 01:37:33.680 --> 01:37:38.920 the maximum shock waves to hit. Does the shock waves travel down the wind 1050 01:37:39.479 --> 01:37:45.439 and the sortes the fallout? And so both of these explosions occurred, one 1051 01:37:45.520 --> 01:37:49.520 to the north west of Sidonia Menza and the other one to the northwest of 1052 01:37:49.640 --> 01:37:56.199 Galaxis Cams. So they were correlated with those two sites. Not only that, 1053 01:37:56.279 --> 01:38:02.399 when you create a big ball of ire like that, it creates nitric 1054 01:38:02.439 --> 01:38:08.520 acid in the air from the nitrogen and the oxygen and the carbon dioxide, 1055 01:38:08.520 --> 01:38:14.399 they break up and they form nitric acid, which etches glass. So at 1056 01:38:14.439 --> 01:38:20.920 both sites you have glass. There's a glass formed in nuclear weapons testing called 1057 01:38:20.960 --> 01:38:28.800 trinatite after the Trinity site. It's a greenish it's a coke bottled green glass 1058 01:38:30.000 --> 01:38:36.359 formed when the soil gets hit by the fireball. And not only that, 1059 01:38:36.359 --> 01:38:42.720 the fireball creates nitric acid with that etches the glass. They found acid etched 1060 01:38:42.800 --> 01:38:48.800 glass at both sites of radioactivity. Now that the radioactivity on these spots on 1061 01:38:48.880 --> 01:38:55.640 Mars is very very small, it's the instruments are so sensitive that they detected 1062 01:38:55.720 --> 01:38:59.560 it. So there's two hot spots of radioactivity in the north of Mars, 1063 01:38:59.600 --> 01:39:06.640 and there's surrounded by this glass called trinetite. And then if you look down 1064 01:39:06.680 --> 01:39:11.880 where the shock waves would have converged when they wrapped around the entire planet and 1065 01:39:11.920 --> 01:39:16.800 come back and run into each other, there's another hot spot. So at 1066 01:39:16.880 --> 01:39:21.359 what's called the antipode of the explosion. It's it's kind of approximate, but 1067 01:39:21.359 --> 01:39:29.079 but it is there. So we have very strong evidence that this occurred, 1068 01:39:29.800 --> 01:39:38.640 and um from radioactive potassium thorium crypton, not just the zenon but also crypton. 1069 01:39:39.840 --> 01:39:46.439 Okay, so we have we have overwhelming evidence now and uh so UM 1070 01:39:46.760 --> 01:39:50.560 and I presented this at scientific conferences. I want to ask you what has 1071 01:39:50.600 --> 01:39:54.520 been the reaction by the community. Of course, this keep your book came 1072 01:39:54.560 --> 01:40:00.079 out in twenty fifteen. Yes, much better data now than I do it 1073 01:40:00.800 --> 01:40:04.479 have. Have you followed up on the data? Yes, yes, I 1074 01:40:04.520 --> 01:40:10.640 tried to improve the data. You can imagine as a scientist saying this, 1075 01:40:11.359 --> 01:40:19.680 yeah in a crowd, just completely kind of mind shattering, world shattering kind 1076 01:40:19.720 --> 01:40:28.239 of result. I had to um, you know, I had to do 1077 01:40:28.439 --> 01:40:34.079 work extra hard to make sure that the data I used was good and convincing. 1078 01:40:34.920 --> 01:40:41.720 Okay, And so the scientists that looked at your data were some of 1079 01:40:41.760 --> 01:40:46.640 them were very positive you talk about, but there were others that were I 1080 01:40:46.640 --> 01:40:50.840 don't know what. What was the general reaction, Well, the general reaction 1081 01:40:53.680 --> 01:40:57.399 from nuclear weapons experts I showed this too, was they agreed with me, 1082 01:40:58.119 --> 01:41:01.399 but they are not free to speak out it. So how would they go 1083 01:41:01.520 --> 01:41:09.319 to I would go to conferences. Xenon one twenty nine puzzle on barns has 1084 01:41:09.359 --> 01:41:13.680 been a puzzle for a long time, and you find in the literature people 1085 01:41:13.720 --> 01:41:17.479 refer to it. I mean, it was first measured in nineteen seventy seven. 1086 01:41:18.039 --> 01:41:26.079 Articles published in twenty twenty one still call it a mystery. The reason 1087 01:41:26.720 --> 01:41:30.880 is that the xenon one twenty nine is the decay caused by the decay of 1088 01:41:30.039 --> 01:41:35.399 iodine one twenty nine, which has produced in nuclear tests and then it decays 1089 01:41:35.439 --> 01:41:44.600 into zeno one twenty nine. But also another thing produced in supernovas and also 1090 01:41:44.680 --> 01:41:51.600 hydrogen bombs is a substance called plutonium two forty four. It has a The 1091 01:41:51.680 --> 01:41:58.119 half life of zeno one twenty nine or iodine one twenty nine is sixteen years. 1092 01:41:58.720 --> 01:42:01.880 The half life of plutonium two forty four, which makes a lot of 1093 01:42:01.920 --> 01:42:09.279 one thirty two xenon one thirty two instead of one twenty nine. That's half 1094 01:42:09.359 --> 01:42:15.720 life is eighty years. So if the xenon one twenty nine had decayed on 1095 01:42:15.760 --> 01:42:19.119 early Mars, creating a lot of xenon one twenty nine, then you would 1096 01:42:19.119 --> 01:42:25.159 have expected a lot of one thirty two from the plutonium two forty four decaying 1097 01:42:25.840 --> 01:42:32.039 later. And they don't find it, which means what, Which means the 1098 01:42:34.720 --> 01:42:42.520 whatever event happened hardly created any plutonium two forty four, and it created a 1099 01:42:42.520 --> 01:42:46.840 lot of zenon one. And that's a hydrogen bomb. Oh, the signature 1100 01:42:46.880 --> 01:42:51.880 is a hydrogen bomb. Okay, we're talking about hydrogen bomb signatures or supernova 1101 01:42:51.920 --> 01:42:59.520 signatures. Okay. Plutonium two forty four is a very rare substance, but 1102 01:42:59.560 --> 01:43:04.920 I had twenty nine is much more common after nuclear weapon goes off. Okay, 1103 01:43:05.039 --> 01:43:12.079 can we tell by the level of zon one twenty nine the devastation of 1104 01:43:12.079 --> 01:43:17.239 the bombs. Oh, yes, we can calculate their their power. So 1105 01:43:17.279 --> 01:43:23.119 what do you think they released as they released a billion mega tons of energy? 1106 01:43:23.279 --> 01:43:28.239 These these if these were nuclear devices, they were as big as the 1107 01:43:28.279 --> 01:43:31.720 Empire state building and they were dropped from space. Okay, but what not 1108 01:43:31.920 --> 01:43:38.640 the product of a primitive civilization. This is a product of a advanced space 1109 01:43:38.680 --> 01:43:41.720 bearing civilization. You taught me a couple of years ago, though, that 1110 01:43:41.880 --> 01:43:46.560 there was some modifications that were made in these bombs that made them stronger. 1111 01:43:46.640 --> 01:43:51.479 And maybe it's the eating in the atmosphere was the one. Yeah, but 1112 01:43:51.680 --> 01:43:58.159 I mean, wasn't there something unique about them that? I mean, well, 1113 01:43:58.159 --> 01:44:00.800 they use a lot of thorium? What are the bombs? Apparently had 1114 01:44:00.840 --> 01:44:06.560 a lot of thorium in um. Thorium was used in um nuclear weapons, 1115 01:44:08.159 --> 01:44:15.119 particularly the ABM anti ballistic missile warhead UM. It was tested at am Chata. 1116 01:44:15.399 --> 01:44:21.359 It was full of thorium. And I don't know specifically why they Thorium 1117 01:44:21.439 --> 01:44:24.960 is a lot more abundant and cheaper. So if you want to build a 1118 01:44:24.960 --> 01:44:29.039 really big bomb, try and use as much thorium as possible, because it's 1119 01:44:29.199 --> 01:44:33.520 a lot easier to make, all right, And you know, but this 1120 01:44:33.640 --> 01:44:39.840 was not naturally these we have not natural event to two nuclear bombs, would 1121 01:44:39.840 --> 01:44:43.880 that be enough to be a terminating event? Oh? Yes? The energy 1122 01:44:43.960 --> 01:44:48.399 released. The the thing that happened on Earth that wiped out the dinosaurs, 1123 01:44:48.359 --> 01:44:53.479 it was called the Chilo impact, and that was just a big rock falling 1124 01:44:53.520 --> 01:44:58.720 from space and hit the Earth and created this big fireball that was just there 1125 01:44:58.800 --> 01:45:02.960 was nothing nuclear out it. It was all just a big, big rock 1126 01:45:03.079 --> 01:45:08.680 hitting the Earth, making a big crater like a moon crater, and that 1127 01:45:08.960 --> 01:45:17.680 released though roughly one hundred thousand mega tons of energy. The energy release, 1128 01:45:17.840 --> 01:45:24.520 based on the amount of isotopes in the Martian atmosphere, looks like it was 1129 01:45:24.800 --> 01:45:31.000 of the order of ten to twenty ten to one hundred times more powerful than 1130 01:45:31.079 --> 01:45:35.439 the chicks Alupe impact that wiped out the dinosaurs. And this happened to a 1131 01:45:35.479 --> 01:45:41.359 planet only half the size of Earth, so it would have been absolutely devastating. 1132 01:45:41.479 --> 01:45:46.000 It. The Earth recovered from the obviously the death of the dinosaurs, 1133 01:45:46.039 --> 01:45:51.800 but on Mars this was just fatal it destroyed almost the entire atmosphere. So 1134 01:45:51.880 --> 01:45:56.079 let me let me, let me understand. So it goes off in one 1135 01:45:56.159 --> 01:46:00.960 part of the planet, but it's the waves, oh yeah, the interview 1136 01:46:00.079 --> 01:46:05.800 rockwaves that are wrapped all the way around the planet. That's yes, okay, 1137 01:46:06.119 --> 01:46:12.760 okay now. But also it also pushed large amounts of the atmosphere just 1138 01:46:12.880 --> 01:46:16.159 off into space and destroyed them. The oceans too. I would imagine it 1139 01:46:16.239 --> 01:46:20.079 destroyed the oceans, that all the air went away, the oceans boiled or 1140 01:46:20.159 --> 01:46:26.800 froze. And would you think that studying this destruction would be something of interest 1141 01:46:26.840 --> 01:46:33.479 to a planetary scientist. Oh yes, they're already finding places where apparently meteorites 1142 01:46:33.560 --> 01:46:39.279 impacted on Mars and created tidal wage from the paleocean. By the way, 1143 01:46:39.720 --> 01:46:45.439 I discovered the pale ocean in the process of examining the face on Mars. 1144 01:46:45.560 --> 01:46:48.960 It's uh Sidonia. I think he wrote a paper on that too. Yeah, 1145 01:46:49.000 --> 01:46:51.960 I did, and I presented a paper. I don't get any credit, 1146 01:46:53.039 --> 01:46:59.159 but Wikipedia, it gives me reference number one. Wikipedia, I don't 1147 01:47:00.319 --> 01:47:04.960 Mars paleo ocean. If check out Wikipedia reference number one. Yeah, people 1148 01:47:05.000 --> 01:47:12.960 don't give me any credit because that's the way academia works when you have somebody 1149 01:47:13.000 --> 01:47:16.239 who's kind of controversial like me. Well, Wikipedia would never admit there were 1150 01:47:16.279 --> 01:47:20.960 civilizations on Mars. That's that's unorthodox for them. That's yes, it is. 1151 01:47:21.119 --> 01:47:26.520 Yeah, okay, So as we conclude, and by the way, 1152 01:47:27.199 --> 01:47:30.800 it's been a real pleasure speaking with you. Been a real pleasure talking if 1153 01:47:30.880 --> 01:47:33.640 I really enjoyed it. Oh, there's one last thing I want to say. 1154 01:47:34.000 --> 01:47:36.000 We're not that. I got a couple more questions. Go ahead, 1155 01:47:36.000 --> 01:47:40.920 Oh okay, Oh, go ahead, you had something you want to say, 1156 01:47:41.279 --> 01:47:48.239 Okay, there's This confirms what is called a principle of SETI search for 1157 01:47:48.279 --> 01:47:54.359 extratressural intelligence, called the principle of mediocrity. It says that the human race 1158 01:47:54.520 --> 01:47:58.920 is not only not alone in the universe, we're not even remarkable. The 1159 01:47:59.039 --> 01:48:01.439 universe is full of people like us. Yeah. In fact, if you 1160 01:48:01.479 --> 01:48:05.600 want to know what intelligent life in the universe acts like, just watch TikTok 1161 01:48:06.319 --> 01:48:12.640 or watch the news, and we're obviously not a bunch of angels. Okay. 1162 01:48:12.840 --> 01:48:18.159 So that's a problem because it says that some of the people out there 1163 01:48:18.159 --> 01:48:23.640 probably are not very pleasant, just like we have people like that on Earth. 1164 01:48:23.680 --> 01:48:29.680 We have our North Korea's you're talking about other civilizations. Other civilizations may 1165 01:48:29.680 --> 01:48:34.399 be quite difficult to deal with. The Klingons are out there, the Dalex 1166 01:48:34.560 --> 01:48:39.159 or from doctor who you know. And so that's I mean, when you 1167 01:48:39.239 --> 01:48:44.800 say mediocrity, that's what you're saying. You're saying, Okay, the universe 1168 01:48:44.920 --> 01:48:47.760 is a balance of good and evil. Yeah, it's just all good. 1169 01:48:48.279 --> 01:48:51.319 We're not the most evil part of the universe. That would be conceit. 1170 01:48:53.039 --> 01:48:57.520 We're actually see students. So the reason you're bringing this up is that this 1171 01:48:57.640 --> 01:49:00.520 bomb, whoever developed this bomb and dropped it on the people living on the 1172 01:49:00.560 --> 01:49:05.439 planet Mars, this was acting like human beings. Well, they wanted to 1173 01:49:05.439 --> 01:49:11.079 get rid of it. They did genocide, I think even yes, they 1174 01:49:11.079 --> 01:49:15.640 did. Yeah. Now there's there's two things. Okay, we're talking about 1175 01:49:15.720 --> 01:49:21.760 Mars mediocrity, and then there's a third factor that's called Fermi's paradox, the 1176 01:49:21.800 --> 01:49:26.600 fact that we seem to be living in a universe seems to be a ghost 1177 01:49:26.600 --> 01:49:33.239 town here. We've had we have evidence that on two separate planets, and 1178 01:49:33.279 --> 01:49:36.399 by the way, the stuff on Mars is like half a billion years old, 1179 01:49:39.000 --> 01:49:45.239 two separate planets developed people who sort of looked and built stuff like us 1180 01:49:46.279 --> 01:49:54.439 independently. That means the whole universe should be full of civilizations like our own, 1181 01:49:55.319 --> 01:49:59.920 and we should be able to point satellite dishes anywhere in the cosmos. 1182 01:50:00.119 --> 01:50:06.960 Get so commercials and political advertising and you know, on and on. Instead 1183 01:50:08.079 --> 01:50:16.600 there's silence. It's called Fermi's paradox. Fermi, the great physicists, said, 1184 01:50:16.800 --> 01:50:23.279 you know, if we assume that life on Earth is normal, mediocre, 1185 01:50:23.399 --> 01:50:27.199 you know, just running the mill. You've just been through World War 1186 01:50:27.239 --> 01:50:29.439 two when he said that, this too, by the way, so he 1187 01:50:29.520 --> 01:50:32.840 knew that the human race was not a bunch of angels. He says, 1188 01:50:32.880 --> 01:50:39.600 then we should expect to see a lot of other civilizations out there, but 1189 01:50:39.760 --> 01:50:45.000 we don't. Where are they? Here's the question, now are they dead? 1190 01:50:47.000 --> 01:50:50.319 Well? What about all these UFOs that are striculing around the planet. 1191 01:50:50.479 --> 01:50:55.920 Oh well, I believe it or not. That actually is consistent with mediocrity 1192 01:50:56.000 --> 01:50:59.800 too. It says we're not alone in the universe. And okay, and 1193 01:51:00.600 --> 01:51:04.439 you know, and you've got people getting abducted by aliens and sexually abused by 1194 01:51:04.520 --> 01:51:10.159 them, and well that sounds pretty normal, kind of like human being. 1195 01:51:10.319 --> 01:51:16.439 Oh, there's there's a place in Europe Kosovo. There were a lot of 1196 01:51:16.479 --> 01:51:23.560 animal mutilations and people, especially women, being abducted and raped. But it 1197 01:51:23.600 --> 01:51:29.000 wasn't an aliens from outer space. It was the Serbs versus the Albanians, 1198 01:51:29.199 --> 01:51:34.920 old bad blood, and it would each side would mutilate each other's cattle and 1199 01:51:35.119 --> 01:51:41.159 leave notes saying this, this is what you're going to look like next time, 1200 01:51:41.680 --> 01:51:46.199 and h you know, and kidnapping women and raping them, that's that's 1201 01:51:46.279 --> 01:51:50.159 old. You're talking about the human condition. Yeah, we're talking about the 1202 01:51:50.279 --> 01:51:57.239 human condition, and so, uh yeah, I don't really I've treated the 1203 01:51:57.239 --> 01:52:01.159 whole UFO controversy in science fiction. I wrote a book called Morning Star Passed 1204 01:52:01.279 --> 01:52:06.000 the Collapse of the UFO cover Up, I'll tell you, and I don't. 1205 01:52:06.079 --> 01:52:14.199 I didn't dodge anything on that, oh absolutely. In fact, if 1206 01:52:14.239 --> 01:52:17.800 you look on the cover, there's there's two beautiful women are the news anchors 1207 01:52:17.840 --> 01:52:28.199 at this upstart um news network kind of internet news network, And one's Asian 1208 01:52:29.119 --> 01:52:33.840 American and the other is this blonde bombshell and she's actually, it's funny. 1209 01:52:33.880 --> 01:52:40.159 I wrote it in two thousand and five. She's Ukrainian and Jewish, and 1210 01:52:40.279 --> 01:52:44.560 I you know, so I didn't know Ukraine was going to turn into such 1211 01:52:44.560 --> 01:52:50.239 a big deal. But anyway, so and the Ukrainian finds out and trying 1212 01:52:50.279 --> 01:52:55.880 to investigate the UFO cover up, but she's got her own cover up going 1213 01:52:55.920 --> 01:53:00.359 on in her own head because she's an abductee. Oh boy. And she 1214 01:53:00.479 --> 01:53:08.199 finally gets hypnotically regressed and deals with that, deals with that, and she 1215 01:53:08.279 --> 01:53:14.159 says in an interview for that they put into their big story on the UFO 1216 01:53:14.279 --> 01:53:18.800 cover up. She says, I've met these people from outer space. The 1217 01:53:18.920 --> 01:53:24.600 good news is they're a lot like us, and the bad news is that 1218 01:53:24.640 --> 01:53:30.439 they're a lot like us, she says. And she finally she even adds, 1219 01:53:30.520 --> 01:53:34.640 she says, and you know, I'm Ukrainian and I'm half Jewish, 1220 01:53:34.720 --> 01:53:40.640 and I know what I'm talking about. Yeah, especially if she said a 1221 01:53:40.720 --> 01:53:44.039 big team. Hey, as we conclude, John, what do you what 1222 01:53:44.119 --> 01:53:47.239 do you foresee as first disclosure? Because there's all kinds of people out there 1223 01:53:47.319 --> 01:53:54.199 right now. Stephen Greer, Oh yeah, Stephen Greer and I actually had 1224 01:53:54.279 --> 01:53:57.079 lunch with him. Well, he's an interesting carrier. But what do you 1225 01:53:57.119 --> 01:54:00.239 see? Yeah, it will it be in our life time because lest time 1226 01:54:00.279 --> 01:54:03.760 we talked a few years ago, you know, NASA's cover. I mean, 1227 01:54:04.319 --> 01:54:09.119 they've got their hands full, especially the same thing with a d D 1228 01:54:09.199 --> 01:54:15.079 in the Space Command with all this UAP activity. But what would be easier 1229 01:54:15.119 --> 01:54:19.000 for them, God, what would be easier for them the disclosure of an 1230 01:54:19.000 --> 01:54:27.119 ancient civilization UFOs or alien artifacts on Earth? Which one of those scenarios do 1231 01:54:27.159 --> 01:54:33.199 you suggest would be first? First by advice to the government, is that 1232 01:54:33.479 --> 01:54:41.720 finding a dead humanoid civilization on Mars that's been dead for a long time. 1233 01:54:42.439 --> 01:54:46.199 Yeah, never mind how they died right now, will discuss that later. 1234 01:54:47.840 --> 01:54:53.640 That's much better way to break it to the public that we're not alone. 1235 01:54:54.560 --> 01:54:58.000 Because it's a bunch of stuff. It looks like ancient Egypt or the Mayans 1236 01:54:58.079 --> 01:55:02.640 or the Oldmes. It looked familiar. It doesn't you know, they didn't 1237 01:55:02.680 --> 01:55:08.479 have fangs or horns or anything like that. Looks very familiar. It looks 1238 01:55:08.520 --> 01:55:15.119 like the Sphinx and the pyramids in Egypt. And they're dead and they look 1239 01:55:15.119 --> 01:55:19.039 primitive. They don't look like it's it's the way to break it to the 1240 01:55:19.119 --> 01:55:24.319 people that, Okay, we're not alone in the universe. There are people 1241 01:55:24.359 --> 01:55:28.199 like us out there. Yeah, they're not going to come up, but 1242 01:55:28.239 --> 01:55:30.560 they're not. You know, these people on Mars, they're not going to 1243 01:55:30.640 --> 01:55:34.760 come after us because oh, somebody killed them. You know, that's a 1244 01:55:34.840 --> 01:55:39.840 great suggestion, because they're not going to be threatening. No, it's not 1245 01:55:39.920 --> 01:55:45.520 threatening. Very it's the least threatening way to make the public aware that we're 1246 01:55:45.520 --> 01:55:51.840 not alone in the universe. Not only that, because of the signs of 1247 01:55:51.840 --> 01:55:56.279 the nuclear holocaust that occurred there, we have to go up there and find 1248 01:55:56.279 --> 01:55:59.920 out what happened. Yeah, that means we have to become space fair. 1249 01:56:00.880 --> 01:56:05.439 And if the US government wants to justify an enormous amount of money spent on 1250 01:56:05.479 --> 01:56:10.800 space defense and space operations, then this is the way to do it. 1251 01:56:11.680 --> 01:56:15.880 So they can say they found it and then they just kind of right and 1252 01:56:15.000 --> 01:56:20.840 reverse won't even talk about those UAP things right now, Well, those are 1253 01:56:20.880 --> 01:56:25.560 just balloons, you know, those are just the sightings of Venus. You 1254 01:56:25.600 --> 01:56:30.000 know, and by the way, people are very frightened. They will accept 1255 01:56:30.039 --> 01:56:33.319 that explanation right now. Well, that'll help them, though there's a dead 1256 01:56:33.359 --> 01:56:38.840 civilization on Mars, and show them the pictures and the you know, then 1257 01:56:38.920 --> 01:56:43.760 they'll and also evidence that Mars used to be earthlike with an ocean, and 1258 01:56:43.880 --> 01:56:46.560 you know, that would help yeah, that would that means, okay, 1259 01:56:47.199 --> 01:56:54.760 the same things that happened on Earth happened on Mars and produce something similar to 1260 01:56:54.840 --> 01:57:00.159 us because the faces look almost human humanoid. Yeah, and they built stuff 1261 01:57:00.159 --> 01:57:05.960 that looks humanoid. So this is the best way to break it to people. 1262 01:57:06.039 --> 01:57:11.399 But when do you think that will happen? Ten twenty two decades, 1263 01:57:11.439 --> 01:57:15.000 three decades. Oh, I think it will happen this year. Be careful, 1264 01:57:16.479 --> 01:57:20.079 well, you know, because we only have rulers on Mar. Here. 1265 01:57:20.119 --> 01:57:25.960 We are here, we are Cliff talking about this, and I presented 1266 01:57:25.960 --> 01:57:31.560 it at scientific conferences, and you know, it's it's coming out. We 1267 01:57:31.680 --> 01:57:39.600 have enough data now to show that the objects found on Mars have ornamental you 1268 01:57:39.640 --> 01:57:45.000 know, there's despite erosion, there's enough ornamental and anatomical details visible in the 1269 01:57:45.000 --> 01:57:49.399 new pictures to show, yeah, these are real archaeology. God, I 1270 01:57:49.439 --> 01:57:53.760 would love phychology on Earth. By the way, it is eroded, So 1271 01:57:53.920 --> 01:58:00.199 stuff on Mars is eroded, but that always shows important details. And we 1272 01:58:00.319 --> 01:58:03.880 found him. We found even nostrils in the nose on the face. It's 1273 01:58:03.920 --> 01:58:12.039 sidonium. So we won by a nose. John a pleasure as always pleasure. 1274 01:58:12.319 --> 01:58:16.319 He looked great and it's not it's heavy back sooner than another fourth through 1275 01:58:16.359 --> 01:58:21.600 three or four years. Absolutely, absolutely no will be. They'll be updates 1276 01:58:21.600 --> 01:58:30.600 on this. I think the I think this is going to happen barely. 1277 01:58:30.840 --> 01:58:34.800 I mean, and Cliff, I tell you, honest to God, I'm 1278 01:58:34.840 --> 01:58:39.720 just doing my job. I actually, when I found out there was a 1279 01:58:39.800 --> 01:58:44.760 nuclear holocaust on Mars, I didn't report it to NASA. I was gonna 1280 01:58:44.760 --> 01:58:49.800 say about it. Well, I reported it to the Defense Department. It's 1281 01:58:49.800 --> 01:58:57.159 their business. And they they sent over a guy from the Defense Intelligence Agency 1282 01:58:57.199 --> 01:59:00.760 and he listened to my whole briefing and fickle out of notes. He was 1283 01:59:00.880 --> 01:59:03.560 very serious, and I said, what do I do with this? And 1284 01:59:03.720 --> 01:59:08.079 he he said, okay, well, we'll get back to you, and 1285 01:59:08.079 --> 01:59:11.640 then he got They got back to us and they basically said, we don't 1286 01:59:11.680 --> 01:59:15.439 see any reason why you shouldn't publish this. So they want this to come 1287 01:59:15.439 --> 01:59:19.279 out. Oh my god, I thought they would squelch you immediately. Well, 1288 01:59:19.520 --> 01:59:24.279 I was prepared completely for them to do that, and I'm I'm a 1289 01:59:24.279 --> 01:59:29.640 team player, and I wouldn't they asked, but instead they waved me on 1290 01:59:29.720 --> 01:59:36.319 ahead. And uh so, UM, think of it this way. If 1291 01:59:36.319 --> 01:59:45.199 the government has a problem with UAPs. It's it's got to react by building 1292 01:59:45.279 --> 01:59:47.600 up our space defenses. We have to have a space force, which we've 1293 01:59:47.600 --> 01:59:51.399 created. We have to become space faring. We have to go to Mars 1294 01:59:51.439 --> 01:59:56.079 and the asteroid Belt stuff like that. We have to get really good at 1295 01:59:56.159 --> 02:00:01.800 this. Wow. And you can't do that without justifying it to the people 1296 02:00:01.880 --> 02:00:06.760 somehow. And this is the best way to justify, the most non threatening 1297 02:00:06.800 --> 02:00:11.760 way to do it. Amazing. And by the way, if you if 1298 02:00:11.760 --> 02:00:15.680 you say, oh, we gotta we got a radio signal from a galaxy, 1299 02:00:15.720 --> 02:00:18.039 that's not gonna do it. They're not. People are not going to 1300 02:00:18.119 --> 02:00:25.439 spend more, pay more taxes, billions of dollars from a from a again 1301 02:00:26.039 --> 02:00:30.439 yea a dead civilizational bars. They will pay more. They don't want to 1302 02:00:30.479 --> 02:00:32.880 see it like we all want to see it. We want to see all 1303 02:00:32.960 --> 02:00:36.920 want to see it up close and personal. They're gonna first motel, They're 1304 02:00:36.920 --> 02:00:44.159 gonna build tourist motels on gas. And that's true. That would that's a 1305 02:00:44.199 --> 02:00:47.680 long flight to Mars. Oh no, it'll it'll get quicker. Okay, 1306 02:00:47.680 --> 02:00:51.000 we'll get better at this. Yeah. Hey, John, wonderful man. 1307 02:00:51.079 --> 02:00:56.319 You look great. And I appreciate, Cliff, you look great too. 1308 02:01:00.920 --> 02:01:06.479 So as we conclude this podcast, we have to ask ourselves, what do 1309 02:01:06.520 --> 02:01:13.000 we do? How do we approach this information, this repression, this cover 1310 02:01:13.199 --> 02:01:23.439 up of UAPs UFOs, the amazing evidence of a law civilization along dead civilization 1311 02:01:24.359 --> 02:01:31.239 and other extraterrestrial artifacts. How do we go about dealing with this? There's 1312 02:01:31.239 --> 02:01:36.680 a body of scientists that have acknowledged that there is a ruined planet known as 1313 02:01:36.760 --> 02:01:43.520 Mars, but we're not told that. Rather, we are paying billions of 1314 02:01:43.560 --> 02:01:47.760 dollars for a rover who is looking for microbes. What the hell is the 1315 02:01:47.880 --> 02:01:53.560 story here? Should we be happy about this? Is it something we should 1316 02:01:53.600 --> 02:01:59.359 really care about? Should we care about how we evolve? Or should we 1317 02:01:59.399 --> 02:02:02.680 just go about living our life the best we can in a nine to five 1318 02:02:02.760 --> 02:02:08.000 existence. I don't know about you, but I want to know more. 1319 02:02:09.399 --> 02:02:13.960 I continue to want to know more. And I have said this many times. 1320 02:02:14.199 --> 02:02:16.960 When it does come out that NASA has known about this, and I 1321 02:02:17.000 --> 02:02:21.039 think it's going to happen as John says fairly soon, I'm not sure it's 1322 02:02:21.039 --> 02:02:24.880 going to happen within this year. I was a little surprising he said that 1323 02:02:25.600 --> 02:02:30.479 I think heads should roll I've said this along all along, that the administrative 1324 02:02:30.520 --> 02:02:36.359 body should be fired. I think in some cases reprimanded to the point where 1325 02:02:38.840 --> 02:02:42.960 there is you can't have a jail time, but you can have something pretty 1326 02:02:42.960 --> 02:02:51.880 close severe penalties for non disclosure of vital vital information on the planet Mars. 1327 02:02:53.359 --> 02:03:02.159 These guys at NASA and JPL are liars. They lie to government officials, 1328 02:03:02.760 --> 02:03:06.800 they lie to the public, and I am tired of it. Here's a 1329 02:03:08.680 --> 02:03:15.159 good example of this is a short audio from a video I found of a 1330 02:03:15.279 --> 02:03:24.199 massive representative lying to the Vice Chairman of the House Committee on Space, Science 1331 02:03:24.319 --> 02:03:33.439 and Technology, Dana Rochebarr. Have a quick listen. You have indicated that 1332 02:03:33.479 --> 02:03:41.039 Mars was totally different thousands of years ago. Is it possible that there was 1333 02:03:41.079 --> 02:03:46.079 a civilization on Mars thousands of years ago? That's Representative Dana Rouherbacher, vice 1334 02:03:46.159 --> 02:03:50.000 Chairman of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology. He asked a 1335 02:03:50.000 --> 02:03:56.079 group of planetary scientists his ancient aliens question Tuesday, and they were pretty clear 1336 02:03:56.119 --> 02:03:59.720 in their response. Mars was different billions of years ago and billion thousands of 1337 02:03:59.800 --> 02:04:04.520 years Well, yes, and there would be there's no evidence that I'm aware 1338 02:04:04.560 --> 02:04:09.359 of that. Would you rule, would you rule that out that see there's 1339 02:04:09.359 --> 02:04:13.720 some people, Well, anyway I would, I would say that is extremely 1340 02:04:13.800 --> 02:04:16.920 unlikely. NASA has yet to find evidence of life on Mars, and while 1341 02:04:16.960 --> 02:04:21.079 all hope isn't lost, the agency says any life on the red planet would 1342 02:04:21.239 --> 02:04:27.800 probably be microscopic. Rubacher's talk of Martians got the most media attention, but 1343 02:04:27.960 --> 02:04:30.840 he also offered some other concerns about a manned mission to Mars. I think 1344 02:04:30.840 --> 02:04:36.079 the Moon is close by and whatever, we can actually get all benefit out 1345 02:04:36.119 --> 02:04:41.760 of going back there, we should before you take the next step. It's 1346 02:04:41.800 --> 02:04:45.199 been forty five years since a human walked on the Moon, and NASA notes 1347 02:04:45.239 --> 02:04:48.119 it still has a lot of unanswered questions about it. As for Mars, 1348 02:04:48.199 --> 02:04:56.359 the agency wants to put astronauts on the red planet by twenty thirty. Now 1349 02:04:56.359 --> 02:05:00.600 when I hear that, I'm infuriated in the fact that these people are not 1350 02:05:00.800 --> 02:05:08.960 brought up on charges. You know, it's funny because there aren't really any 1351 02:05:09.039 --> 02:05:15.079 noted archaeologists who have studied the satellite imagery of the planet, and I have 1352 02:05:15.359 --> 02:05:23.439 actually placed what looks like archaeological ruins in front of a number of archaeologists and 1353 02:05:23.640 --> 02:05:26.840 a couple of them, and I can't name names. They promised, I 1354 02:05:26.920 --> 02:05:30.399 promised I wouldn't name names. You'd be shocked if you heard who they are. 1355 02:05:31.000 --> 02:05:38.680 They have actually said before I've told them this Mars. One woman said, 1356 02:05:41.239 --> 02:05:47.960 what are they going to start excavating? So you know, it's obvious 1357 02:05:48.000 --> 02:05:54.039 these are ruins, and it's obvious that they're you know, sophisticated buildings. 1358 02:05:54.319 --> 02:06:00.840 You know some of them are pyramidal. The dn M, the Petrie Molinar 1359 02:06:00.680 --> 02:06:06.520 Pyramid is a huge pyramid, five sided, and there's pyramids all over the 1360 02:06:06.600 --> 02:06:15.199 planet. So anyhow, I hope you enjoyed this, and you should know 1361 02:06:15.359 --> 02:06:21.399 that I will not stop. Remember how insidious NASA is. Remember when we 1362 02:06:21.479 --> 02:06:29.159 had Mark Marion Rudnick on the program, a former NASA astronomer. What happened 1363 02:06:29.199 --> 02:06:33.439 to him when he saw UFOs down where he lives in Los Angeles. He 1364 02:06:33.560 --> 02:06:39.560 was persecuted. He continues to be persecuted. The men in black harass him, 1365 02:06:40.119 --> 02:06:45.119 They bug his phones, they park in front of his building. I 1366 02:06:45.159 --> 02:06:47.640 haven't heard from him in a few months. I've been trying to get him 1367 02:06:47.680 --> 02:06:51.840 back on the show. I prayed a guy that he's still a life. 1368 02:06:54.159 --> 02:07:00.000 So it's always too crazy to be a reality. It's it's like a reality 1369 02:07:00.000 --> 02:07:06.279 of the show, but it's just so. It's nuts. It's nuts. 1370 02:07:06.439 --> 02:07:13.399 It's your future, people, it's your future. This is your evolution. 1371 02:07:13.880 --> 02:07:19.319 You need to know that you are part of a group of planets inhabited. 1372 02:07:19.600 --> 02:07:26.279 We are intelligent beings. It's time to come out from behind the bushes. 1373 02:07:28.000 --> 02:07:32.039 We need to stop hiding from our off oral brethren. These guys are flying 1374 02:07:32.079 --> 02:07:36.600 around and their ships looking at us, surveying us. In some cases, 1375 02:07:36.760 --> 02:07:41.439 typically not the United States. They're getting out of their ships and saying, 1376 02:07:41.479 --> 02:07:45.520 hey, what's going on. It happens a lot in Mexico, it happens 1377 02:07:45.520 --> 02:07:49.720 a hell of a lot in South America, it happens in Africa. And 1378 02:07:49.760 --> 02:07:56.479 I gotta tell you it's amazing. Now look forward and then coming a few 1379 02:07:56.600 --> 02:08:03.079 weeks to a program series that we're developing here called the Alien Experience. And 1380 02:08:03.159 --> 02:08:11.119 these are a number of people, most notably Whitley Strieber and a whole bunch 1381 02:08:11.159 --> 02:08:16.439 of other people that are featured in books, who have chronicled their interactions with 1382 02:08:16.600 --> 02:08:20.560 alien species, alien beings from other planets who are going, hey, we're 1383 02:08:20.640 --> 02:08:26.119 here, take a look at my ship. And in some cases they are, 1384 02:08:26.720 --> 02:08:31.039 you know, brought on board, flown around some cases outside of our 1385 02:08:33.079 --> 02:08:39.279 planet, in the other locations in the cosmos, and told point Black that 1386 02:08:39.399 --> 02:08:45.199 hey, you're not alone. There's others like us here to meet with you. 1387 02:08:45.279 --> 02:08:50.680 So look forward to that. An alien the alien experience, it's coming 1388 02:08:50.800 --> 02:08:56.199 up soon. And this is something I'm bringing forward. This is gonna that's 1389 02:08:56.199 --> 02:08:58.880 gonna be on destiny. That's gonna not gonna be an Earth angels, but 1390 02:09:00.000 --> 02:09:03.920 it's gonna be on Destiny. So check it out. All right. I 1391 02:09:03.960 --> 02:09:07.960 want to thank my guest today, doctor John Brandenburg. Really great to have 1392 02:09:07.079 --> 02:09:11.560 him. Continued health and wellness. Thank you John, as always a team 1393 02:09:11.600 --> 02:09:16.680 of Ruth Thomas, Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen. You 1394 02:09:16.680 --> 02:09:20.720 guys, Rocket you do, you do, Rock, you really do. 1395 02:09:20.159 --> 02:09:22.800 All right, take care if you will, and we will talk to you 1396 02:09:22.840 --> 02:09:30.359 next time. Oh and by the way, this music is by Edgar Hopp. 1397 02:09:30.439 --> 02:09:33.399 This is the full track called Nebular. If you want to send me 1398 02:09:33.439 --> 02:10:31.560 an email, it is our closing music for the day.