Really hot topic in my field and the fitness field. I remember when I
first announced at the Jim Brow type of the gym that I worked at.
You know, I was already the weird one for being vegetarian. Even though
I was fit and strong and never sick and always positive, it was a
bit weird that I didn't eat meat. I announced I was going to become
vegan, and one of the other trainers said, well, goodbye lean muscle
mass. He was wrong. You're listening to the Plant Based Diet podcast,
where we talk about all things plant based. I'm Ester Garfrom, the host
of this show and founder of Alternative Food Network. Join me in my amazing
array of guests who are a mix of healthcare professionals, industry executives, and
people with an interesting story to tell about their plant based journey. Let us
help you with your journey wherever you're at to learn the what wine how to
eat plant based Welcome to the last episode of the fourth season of Plant Based
Diet. This we're going to be taking a short production break as we start
to plan for next season. It's a great time for gathering topics, so
if you want us to cover something specific next season, please email us at
info at Alternativefoodnetwork dot com with your suggestion and thank you to the presenting sponsor
of this series this season, Prolon. I like the concept of Prolon and
have been able to try several of their products over the course of this season
of plant Based Diet. Prolon was designed and clinically tested by eighteen global universities
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fifteen percent off your order. If you use the link, we may receive
a small commission from your purchase. My guest today is Kate Gali, who's
a master personal trainer, life coach and fellow podcaster, and we're going to
be chatting about building muscle when you're eating plant based There are those naysayers who
say you need to eat meat in order to build muscle, and I want
to hear what Kate has to say. Welcome Kate. It is so nice
to have you on plant based diet esther. It is my pleasure to be
here. Thank you, and I must thank you. You are up very
early in the morning Australia time. What time is it over there? Look,
it's five thirty am. That it is actually no, lie, a
perfect time for me. We're all good. Wow, you don't mind just
waking up and doing this that early in the morning. I'm a four I
am lady. That's when I normally get up, and I like to do
my most important things first, and podcast conversations are one of the most important
things I do well. That does require discipline, I must say. And
speaking of discipline, I saw an interesting quote on your website about that.
It said, discipline is just choosing between what you want now and what you
want most. Why did you put that quote on your website? Gosh,
I guess it's the way I live right, Delayed gratification, just getting really
clear on how you want your life, your health, whatever it may be
to look like. And you might have to choose a little bit of discipline
in the moment. It's going to make life so much easier on you down
the track. And I guess a little bit further to that. You know,
lots of my clients I'm a personal trainer say I'm super disciplined. It's
actually not that, it's more that I've outplanned my lack of discipline. So
anyone out there struggling with discipline, you know, it's not that you can't
do it. It just takes a little bit more planning and strategy to outplan
all those discipline flops that maybe you've had in the past. And I guess
for your work you need to be disciplined as well your personal trainer among other
things. And I'm also being a podcast host and a live coach, but
you are a personal trainer. I wanted to talk about building muscle. We
haven't quite done a show on that yet, and I thought it would be
interesting because I've heard more than once, oh, you need to eat meat
if you want to build muscle. And I'm not talking you know, I've
heard this from pro athletes or Olympic athletes. These are just you know,
people wanting to build a little bit, you know, be healthy, build
a little muscle, and they're convinced that you need to eat meat. So
what are some what do you think about that, and what are some of
the misconceptions that you've heard. I think that's absolute nonsense. However, I
will share that I used to, to a small degree, believe those myths
and misconceptions as well. When I became vegan about eight and a half years
ago, I had already been vegetarian for twenty three years. I've been a
personal trainer for a decade. At that in time, I was really happy
with the way my body looked and functioned, and as you said, I
saw it as kind of important to my job and my career that I walked
the talk and I looked the part. So I was fearful when I knew
I needed to become vegan, because I was vegio for the animals. I
learned I needed to be vegan for the animals. I had that fear that
I might lose some muscle, that I might gain some fat, and so
to a degree, I understand when other people have that fear, but rest
assured it is absolutely possible. All we need to do now is google all
the amazing vegan athletes, vegan body builders, vegan fitness professionals in any sphere
and you can see the strong, healthy vegan athletes and advocates. And yeah,
as I said, not nearly as hard as I thought it was.
I would go so far as saying it's not any harder, certainly not harder
than when I was vegetarian. However, I guess there are some considerations to
have. And just out of curiosity, you said you were a vegetarian prior
to becoming the and I'm plant based, so I'm not vegan, but certainly
I believe in eating a whole food, plant based diet, and I'm just
curious when you're a vegetarian, was that for health reasons or also for animal
welfare reasons. It's always been about the animals for me. I became vegetarian
when I was sixteen for that animals. I didn't know what I know now
so far as the fact that animals were still dying for my food choices.
As a vegetarian, I followed a very high protein, low carbohydrate diet.
As a vegetarian personal trainer, I'd have up to twenty one egg whites a
day, and I have massive guilt over that now. But all I can
do is everything I can do now as a vegan and spreading the words.
So yeah, never about health for me, always about the animals. But
health is a very happy side effect that you get all the benefits, particularly
if you're following the whole food plant based approach. You know, we want
to avoid being junk food vegans. That's you know, that's not so healthy
and not healthy at all. In fact, yeah, the focus of this
show really about being plant based is on health, but also you know,
all the other reasons that someone might be plant based, whatever their journey is,
and certainly animal welfare comes up all the time. Now you're mentioning protein,
this is also a huge topic. I think other guests have mentioned it.
How much protein does one really need? And can those protein requires be
fulfilled when you're a plant based or a vegan, they absolutely can be fulfilled.
A really hot topic in my field and the fitness field. I remember
when I first announced at the gym Bro type of gym that I worked at.
You know, I was already the weird one for being vegetarian. Even
though I was fit and strong and never sick and always positive, it was
a bit weird that I didn't eat meat. I announced I was going to
become vegan, and one of the other trainers said, well, goodbye lean
muscle mass. He was wrong. I probably overdid it. Early days,
I tried to stick to the super high protein, super low carb with the
vegan not necessary. Nothing wrong with whole food cabs. Now I advocate for
between one point two to one point eight grams of protein per kilo of body
weight, or if it's easier, fifteen to twenty grams per meal and snack.
So myself I might get seventy to ninety grams of protein a day.
That's a little bit more, a fair bit more than what many doctors would
say we need to survive on. But again it's are we talking to the
athletes, to the fitness crowd, the people who really want to build some
decent muscle, or they're really active athletically, or maybe they want to lose
some fat and a higher protein approach can be better. Again, nothing wrong
with whole food calves. However, lots of protein can be really helpful because
it's so satisfying and also huge diversity so far as the plant based proteins that
you introduce into your diet. So what are some of the plant based proteins
that you liked to eat? So this was such a happy thing, right
because I think I had it. I know I had a really restrictive diet
as a vegetarian, I mentioned all those egg whites and whole eggs and a
bit of cottage trees. But then when I became plant based, I discover
it, all the legumes and lentils and chick peas and all the soy variants.
I was fearful of soy for a little bit. I sound really fearful.
I probably was early days as a personal trainer, right, but I
believe the myths about soy and the estrogen mimicking myths about how it might lead
to extra fat storage in my hips and thighs as a lady or man boobs
as a man, just propaganda. I looked at the vegan athletes online who
had the fit, strong, healthy body that I wanted, almost so that
I wanted to maintain. I looked at what they were eating, because,
to be frank, we all share what we're eating down to it, like
the minute details. And many of them made soy. So I eat lentils
every day, I eat chick peas every day. I eat tofu and not
tempe so much. It's just not as delicious to me. Heaps of daname,
And as I said, the happy thing is that approach is so much
more diverse than what it was, definitely as a vegetarian and even as a
meat eater too. And do you have your clients who you trained, are
they is it a variety or are they mainly plant based or vegan? Also,
so sadly, well happily, my clients had been with me so long
when I became vegan that and they were so loyal that I was just that
freaking vegetarian girl now turned vegan. They weren't really interested in that for themselves,
however, they really were super curious as to how it was going to
work for me. So I actually felt more so probably put a lot of
pressure on myself to do it right because I knew I had a bit of
an audience. I knew I could either let the lifestyle down if I didn't
do it well, or I could prove just how simple and easy and healthy
and delicious it was. So I mean, I basically tried to hit every
single macro and micronutrient in every single meal early days, and that was too
much hard work and it wasn't as delicious as the way I eat now.
However, you know, I did learn how to advocate for the lifestyle with
my clients, and that is by talking about all the deliciousness, showing the
pictures, sharing the recipes, avoiding the whole animal rights, animal welfare side
of things that didn't resonate with my clients at all. To be frank and
bit by bit my clients introduced i'd say, much more plant dominant. However,
none exclusively plant based or vegan. All right, Well, either way,
it's still helping for all the different reasons people are plant based foreshore,
it's still helping with all of those reasons. I mean, that's one of
the big learnings is patients and meeting someone where they are. And just because
I became vegan for their animals, if someone that I love and respects sees
the same information, they're not necessarily going to make that same decision. So
I've just got a stop thing so pushy and as I said, lead with
the deliciousness, and I found that to be much more effective. Yeah,
yeah, and it is delicious. It can be very absolutely And I almost
forgot to thank you. You were gracious enough to share a recipe for our
newsletter subscribers, So if anyone is not on our newsletter, please go to
our website and sign up for it, and you can that our next newsletter
will have a recipe from Kate, So again, thank you very much.
Yeah, check out that recipe that was from early days when I wanted to
hit every single micronutrient in every single meal. However, it's actually supremely delicious
and great to share as well. So jump on the newsletter. Now,
what are your thoughts So you're mentioning the macro and micronutrients before, what are
your thoughts on the need for a supplementation? Because we all have nutrient requirements.
Do you think maybe we should split it out between vegan versus plant based
because they're not the same thing. So for someone who's vegan, must they
supplement and for someone who is plant based, maybe with a plant forward diet,
should they be supplementing? And what might those supplements be. I do
kind of look at them pretty much the same so far as whether they need
to supplement or not. And I would say B twelve is the one thing
that basically everyone agrees on that we do need to supplement. BE twelve isn't
made by animals. It's made by bacteria. However, it does accumulate in
animal cells and so if you eat animals, you're going to get the B
twelve. If you don't eat any animal products at all, you do need
to supplement with it. You don't want to muck around with that one.
Amiga threes. Again, some people will say supplement, some people will say
don't. I just prioritize the plant foods that are really high in omega threes.
So for me, that's hemp seeds and black seeds and walnuts. Really
easy to hit your daily goals just including those delicious foods. Another one that
everyone likes to talk about is calcium. You know we need jerrypa calcium.
We absolutely don't need dairy for calcium. So some of the go to sauces
there to hit your thousand milograms of calcium a day. The plant milks that
you buy, many of them have been fortified with calcium. That's a really
easy way to get say a third of your dietary require daily requirements in one
cup of plant milk, all the amazing proteins like your toefus, your etaname,
some of your lentils, then some of your leafy greens shock a full
of calcium. And the last one I touch on probably is iron, and
I will say, irrespective of the way that you eat, a lot of
people, particularly women, are iron deficient. It's not exclusive to vegan or
plant based. It's something to be aware of. So again I have quite
a focus in my food again that they're lentils, also your tofus lots and
nuts and seeds. So all this deliciousness is abundance in iron. And for
the listener maybe it sounds like a little bit of work. It is just
work up front, right, You do your due diligence upfront, and you
find these are the iron rich foods, These are the calcium rich foods that
I love. This is how I'm gonna include them in my daily and weekly
routine. You learn it once and you're done, so it's not an ongoing
effort. It's just an upfront effort. Yeah. You know, I use
an app on my phone where it's like a grocery list, and there are
just these steeples on it that however often you know, time to buy to
food, time to buy the seeds, right, the lentils or the beans.
You know, it's just they're just on there all the time, and
there are you know, some of them are pantry foods. Some of them
are for the fridge, but they're just there. You buy them, you
have them, you eat them. You're so right. And also I'd just
like to add that any lifestyle change that you make which is aligned with living
a more healthy life is going to take some effort. Early days when I
was vegan, I had a non vegan boyfriend and he was into bodybuilding,
and I can tell you he puts so much more effort into his food and
his meal prepping than I put As a vegan personal trainer. He was the
one making all the effort because he had a health goal. So any sort
of health goal, it's going to take a little bit of effort up front.
However, it will one hundred percent be worth it. Yeah, I
agree, Yeah, I agreed. And what are some neutri dense plant foods
that you you recommend? I mean, we did talk about beans and lentils,
but what are what are some maybe some other ones that you recommend to
people. So first, if they don't know what to eat at all,
I would look at the meals that they already. If they're just transitioning or
a little bit more plant based, curious, whatever it is, I would
look at the meals that they already love that just need a small tweak to
become more plant based so that they're not really starting from scratch. From there,
I would I would encourage them to introduce some of the foods that maybe
society has kind of geared us towards, you know, sidestepping out or being
fearful of. And for me that was like my potatoes and my sweet potatoes,
and again all those lentils and legumes. You will find that you can
enjoy so many of those higher carbohydrate, even higher fat, whole foods like
here nuts and your seeds. So definitely some of those are my go tos,
like your big hearty lentil curry or stew, or your baked, stuffed
sweet potato again with some lentils, or crispy chickpeas, nuts and seeds,
the snacks, all of that. But starting either with the foods that you
love or maybe trying some of those foods that you didn't love as a child.
And our taste buds change, right, and our cooking abilities change as
well, so perhaps trying some new ones and seeing what you think of them
now. And also to add to that, if there are spices that somewhere
rags in their food add spices to these new foods one hundred percent. Maybe
there's a particular style of cooking from a particular place in the world. Then
you learn their spice blends, and miraculously that's going to work with whatever you
put it with. It doesn't have to be with the meat, whatever plant
based product you choose to use, it's going to suck up all that delicious
flavor and it's going to take amazingly close to what you enjoyed when you ate
those animal products. Yeah. Absolutely, it's very often in this space.
I'm so crazing. Yeah, for sure. All right now, switching gears
a little bit. You are also a podcaster I am, indeed. Can
you tell us a little bit about your podcast and the kinds of guests that
you interview. My podcast is Health Vacation. We've just had our ten year
anniversary, which is amazing congratulation, Thank you. So I interviewed passionate and
compassionate athletes, authors, activists, doctors, entrepreneurs, basically anyone I respect
in the world who I just want to spend one on one time with for
an hour, Like how good is that? These are the people I have
conversations with, and it's a really diverse group of people. It gives me
heart and hope for the world that we live in as well, because you
know, to be Frank living vegan in a non vegan world, and this
relates to so many things. It doesn't have to be vegan non vegan.
It could be politics, religion, whatever it may be. If you're listening,
you probably have someone in your life who there's something important and you don't
agree on it, and it's creating conflict and it's hard to deal with.
In the podcast, reaching out to these people that are doing so much good,
that have such compassionate open hearts, that is just it's absolutely the highlight
of my week. So yeah, health vacation, okay, And it's on
all the major podcast plans. It is indeed easy to find. How often
do you have a new show once a week? Do you know? When
I started ten years ago, I was like crazy, I did five solo
episodes a week. I told myself I'd do that for a year. I
guess I'm somewhat disciplined because I did. I did it for a year and
then I was like, that's insane, and so one a week, five
five solo shows. Solo shows, sure, solo shows, Yeah, but
now they're pretty much all interviews. Well, we have a lot of listeners
in Australia, so if maybe they haven't heard of you before, maybe you'll
get some new followers too from your home pendry. That would be amazing.
I would love that. Where are you in Australia. I've actually just moved.
I spent twenty five years in Sydney, and Sydney's an amazing city and
I decided eventually I was ready for a little slower pace, so I've moved
to the Sunshine Coast in Queensland, to a place called NUSA. Anyone in
Australia that knows NUSA will know it's stunningly beautiful, a lot smaller and a
lot slower than Sydney. Nice. Yes, wow, sounds beautiful. It
is all right. Well, if someone wants to contact you, how should
they go about doing that? Where's the best place to find you? Thank
you? The website is strongbodygreenplanet dot com. Via that website, you'll find
the Health Vacation podcast. You'll find the Plant Positive Journal, which is the
book I wrote last year, and you'll find links to everything across the socials.
I tend to be strong body, Green planet across the socials as well.
All right, well again, thank you so much for waking up very
early in the morning to do this, Although you said you're used to it,
but I appreciate it and it was very lovely to meet you. As
to my huge pleasure, It's been an absolute blast, so thank you.
I hope you found this episode helpful to you the listeners who keep on listening
to this show. Thank you for your loyalty. I wish you a good
couple of months and look forward to bring you more great plant based information next
season. Make sure you follow plant based diets you'll know when the next season
starts. If you're on social media, you can follow us at Alternative Food
Network on Facebook and Instagram. And we also publish a monthly newsletter that includes
plant based recipes, recipe videos, our latest podcasts, and the occasional giveaway
that you can subscribe by going to our website at Alternative foodnetwork dot com and
click the Newsletters signup button. Thanks again to our presenting sponsor, prol On.
And that's a wrap on season four. All content provided or opinions expressed
in this podcast or for informational purposes only and are not a substitute for professional
medical advice. Please seek advice from your doctor or other qualified healthcare practitioner.