You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio
in the UK and around the world. Hello world, you're listening to Eleanor
Wagner's Strange and Scary world here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network, where we're
always creeping it real. I'm your host, Eleanor Wagner. Welcome all to
my paranormal Closet, where the story is in magic take place. Today's guest
has an old school approach to paranormal investigating, having researched the paranormal for thirty
years and has fourteen years of empirical investigation experience. He's the founder and director
of the Mount Washington Valley Spirit Scientific Paranormal Investigation, Research and Interpretation Team That's
a Mouthful, which is a legal nonprofit business recognized by the State of New
Hampshire as a science consultation service. Join me in welcoming Eric Extreme to the
show. Welcome Eric, Thank you glad to be here. When you and
I first connected, you explained yourself very well. You defined a paranormal investigation
as an activity where one would go to a location with scientific analyzers and attempt
to explain perceived activity with science. When someone would go to a location to
attempt to capture paranormal activity with very little or no focus on science, it
was called ghost hunting, and you pointed at that. Around fifteen years ago
in the USA, paranormal television shows flooded the networks and for marketing height they
used the term paranormal investigator, when in actuality, all they were presenting to
the public and viewers was a highly edited and overacted ghost hunt. To quote
you, you said the two terms were used interchangeably, when historically in the
US they were two completely different things. Today in the US, the vast
majority of the paranormal investigator are simply ghost hunters, using the paranormal television shows
as a template on how to conduct a paranormal investigation, when nothing that they
do resembles what was historically recognized in the USA as a paranormal investigation. End
quote. I have to admit I've never paid much credence to the shows and
what they present to the viewers. In fact, after my own recent experience
with a director scouting from new teams, it was made perfectly clear to me
that the shows are created for entertainment purposes and if something doesn't happen to excite
their viewer. It's made to happen. So I'm not at all impressed with
people who instigate or antagonized spirit either, which they do on the shows,
nor do I care for the people who run screaming from spirit after they've requested
communication and interaction. You tell me you're on the far side of the science
spectrum. Can you explain this to me please? Oh? Absolutely so.
Basically, I'm going into a location exhausting everything I possibly can to explain what's
being perceived as paranormal aativity with actual science. If you've ever or any of
your listeners have ever seen these paranormal television shows, they're literally going in to
find the spooky. They're not doing any type of scientific investigation. So what
I'm going to do when I go in, even if I have to do
a physical investigation, Often I'm able to explain what's going on with just a
simple consultation over the phone or through the internet due to scientific knowledge. But
I'm going in there looking for causes of what would perceive to cause paranormal activities,
such as infrasound, which is sound frequencies below twenty hurts ultrasound, which
our frequencies above twenty kilo hurts. I'm looking at ionizing radiation. I'm looking
at such things as various forms of gases, various forms of air quality issues.
If there's mold in the air, you can start to hallucinate. I'm
looking at microwaves, I'm looking at Oh my god, what else am I
looking at? Atmospheric conditions? I mean, all these things can present physical
and tactile symptoms that would lead someone to believe that this paranormal activity. If
I may, I'll tell a quick story about a recent case I did with
this all came into play. Okay, I've told the story on other shows
before, but it's a good example. Recently, someone who lives in an
adjacent town to me started experiencing such things as earpain, headaches, scopastasia,
which is the feeling of being watched. They were experiencing acute anxiety, and
they weren't anxious people. They were having sleeplessness as well, and they started
seeing what they believed to be were apparitions out of the corner of their eye.
So, wanting to remain anonymous, they reached out to some couple of
ghost hunting teams who lived out of the area, and they consulted and basically
tried to give a list of all these reasons why it was paranormal activity.
Now, this client was a little more skeptical and decided to create a Facebook
count under Nathan under an assumed name to be able to remain anonymous, and
went on a local Facebook page here where I live up in Conway, New
Hampshire, asking for a referral. There is a ghost hunting team in town,
but they would have done the same thing that this other team did.
But I'm also involved heavily in the community with some organizations that I'm involved with,
so they know who I am, and my name came up, so
this person got referred to me and I was probably on the phone of them
five minutes before if you get out what was going on basically what tuned me
in as she had mentioned that there was ear pain and head pain and your
eyes actually resonate at eighteen hurts, which is within the infrasound range, which
can cause headaches and hallucinations, and the ear pain can also be caused by
infrasound, and causes of infersound naturally are things such as tectonic plates moving while
Kano's thunder human resonances which is another part of infrasound within thunder, where it's
bouncing back and forth. That science I won't get too deep into. But
it's also caused by manmade things such as generators, anything with a spitting motor,
and it can cause infrasound. Some animals use it for long distance communication,
such as rhinoceroses and elephants. Actually, that sound can actually travel hundreds
of miles even coming from an animal. So I began asking her, do
you use a diesel generator? We all live up here in the mountains of
New Hampshire and diesel generators are quite common, And she says no, I'm
on the grid. I don't have a generator. I says, well,
do you happen to have an old dryer in the house? And she says
no, I actually go to laundromat. I says, do you happen to
have an old metallic fan? And I'm gonna think of it. I do.
She had poor air circulation in the house the way this condo is designed,
so she was using this big metal fan in an adjacent room near some
heating vents and then it was also near an air conditioner, so the various
times a year this fan would help circulate the air. And I said to
her, well, has it been sounding a little off lately? And she
goes, come to think of it, it did sound a little different,
like it was screeching or grinding a little bit, But she was just going
to use it till it stopped working and then replace it. And I says,
well, let's do this, Let's stop using the fan for now or
replace it. But that whole situation wouldn't explain completely the scopastasia, the feeling
of being watched. So I said to her I had asked her if she
had been doing any remodeling in the house and she said no. I said,
well, is there any part of your environment that has been changed?
Have you remodeled the room? Have you been cleaning out closets or have you
been moving furniture around? And she says she had been cleaning out a walking
closet and that there were boxes everywhere. I says, well, this feeling
of being watched, is it happening everywhere in particular rooms? You should stop
for a second. She goes, actually, that feeling of being watched is
only happening in my bedroom, and that's where all these stacks of boxes are
that are making me feel like I was being watched. I says, well,
what I feel is happening is there's something Scopastasia is often a symptom of
acute claustrophobia, the fear of enclosed places. I asked her if she ever
had difficulty in like small closets or elevators. She goes, well, I've
felt uncomfortable elevators before, but not enough to not use them. I says,
well, when you're laying down to bed, the light coming in through
the windows has changed and you're seeing these stacks of boxes, and it could
be it can be perceived by your mind as you know, you're getting closed
in upon you, and you're I believe you're getting claustrophobia due to this.
So I suggested that she get these boxes cleaned up and return the ambiance of
her bedroom to where it was before this happened. So a couple days later,
she called me back and was thanking me profusely because all these symptoms are
gone, so these ghost hunting teams had gone. And try to explain to
her that all this was paranormal nature. That was spirits, it was this,
and that it turned out it was just impersound sensitivity and scopastasia which was
being caused by a q claustrophobia. Interesting. Wow, well your list is
pretty endless. I mean, you threw out a lot of terms that I'm
on contuniy with. I'd love for you to go through some of them individually
to give my listards a better understanding of scientific causes that are often misinterpreted as
paranormal activity. To name a few, you mentioned ionospheric propagation and then you
said helm holds resonances, quantum entanglement. Can you just kind of like tell
us what all of this means. Okay, we'll start with ionospheric propagation that
comes into play with radio signals. Now, there's a layer of our atmosphere
called the ionosphere, and this occurs at about sixty miles up above the Earth's
surface, and there's radiation that comes off the Sun that causes electrons and protons
to separate up in the atmosphere, and this creates a scenario or it actually
acts as a mirror to radio signals that are below thirty megahurts. What falls
below thirty mega hurts or some amateur radio bands, CB radio band, citizens
ban radio. It's a big fad that was here in the seventies and nineties
here in the United States. It also am radio falls into that. So
what happens is these radio signals can bounce up off the atmosphere and come back
down on hundreds of miles away, thousands of miles away, or on the
other side of the planet at the virtually the same strength that they had been
transmitted at. So an example would be I had a case where this person
contact in me because they swore up and down they had recorded a man's voice
on a voice recorder, and that this person didn't have any male relatives living
in the house, no friends, that they kind of live in a secluded
area. There was no men that lived nearby. So they were convinced that
they had something paranormal. And I asked them if they had happened to take
any time to amplify this sound to try and make out what was being said
because it was kind of faint, and they says no, but it was
definitely paranormal. I said, okay, why don't you send me the sound
file? And they sent me the sound file and I amplified it and I
heard what I was pretty sure was the call sign of an amateur radio operator.
So I'm an amateur radio operator myself. So I looked into the database
and found out where this person lived. It was about twenty five hundred miles
away from where this sound was recorded, and I reached out to this person,
and it turns out at that time where this recording occurred, they were
experimenting with bouncing radio signals off of satellites. Amateur radio has satellites where you
can bound signals off of. Well, some of this signal bounced off the
atmosphere due to ionospheric propagation, came back down twenty five hundred miles away,
and this person with a voice recorder picked up this voice and thought it was
something paranormal, when it turned out it was just a guy playing with the
two way radio twenty five hundred miles away. Wow, that's pretty amazing.
There's something called you know, there's different types of microphones in these voice recorders.
Some of them have small condenser mics, or there's something called mems.
It's a micro electec mic. It's just a kind of electric powered mic that
these small voice recorders tend to have unless you have a really expensive voice recorder.
These things are often susceptible to radio frequency interfere and so there is something
called a Faraday bag or a Faraday cage. These things are rather inexpensive.
You can get them for fifteen twenty twenty five bucks, but they will block
out ninety five percent of this radio interference. It's not one hundred percent,
but it will block out most of it. So I always recommend to any
paranol investigators or ghost hunters who are using voice recorders to get one of these
Faraday bags because it will help keep down a lot of this ionospheric propagation.
There's also another term similar called troposphere ducting. It's where radio signals that are
typically fifty mega hurts up to a couple of hundred megaherts get trapped in between
hot and cold air currents in the troposphere, hence troposphere abducting. Same effect.
They only go a couple hundred miles, but your devices with speakers or
any type of susceptibility to radio interference can pick up these radio signals from hundreds
or thousands of miles away. So here you are thinking you're getting the voice
of someone on your voice recorder or on your devices, and it turns out
it's not paranormal, it's just something quite far away. You mentioned quantum entanglement.
That is something that gets into quantum mechanics, where something is perceivably connected
to something at a subatomic or quantum level. They don't physically appear through science
to have any correlation, but they're acting like they do. In the layman's
terms. An example would be how often if you heard stories where a mother
just knows something's wrong with their kid. They don't know why, but it
turns out the kid had gotten hurt on a ballfield or something. They just
know something is wrong. That comes into play with quantum entanglement. It's basically
where you have a connection with something. It's not measurable, it's not explainable,
but it is apparent by evidence that there is some sort of connection.
I recently had a case where one of my buddies actually reported that he had
lost his brother and he at the time his brother was dying, he started
dreaming about him. He didn't know his brother was dying. It was a
sudden medical incident. A month or two later, him and the other siblings
were talking and another one brought up that they were having the same dream at
the same time. So my buddy mentioned, hey, I had this too,
And it turns out multiple siblings had the same dream around the same time
when their other sibling was dying. That's a that's an example of quantum entanglement.
Now, if you can refresh my memory. What was the other term,
oh, hemhole trust residences, Okay. Hemholtz resonance are often the cause
of what's perceived to be paranoal activity. To simplify it, you're similar to
my age. You ever blow over an old glass soda container and it makes
that whistling noise. Hemholtz resonances are basically where sound is passing over a cavity
and something. It could be a crack in a window, It could be
over the top of a bottle. It could be a little pinhole in offense.
I'll give you an example. These sounds can come across as almost sounding
like voices, moaning, whispers, whistling. It depends on the power of
the wind passing over whatever size of this hole is. So I had another
case where someone believed that the place was haunted because they heard whispering and moaning.
Well, they had reached out to ghost hunting team, same thing happened.
They came in where all their flashy devices confirmed the place was haunted without
any evidence, because you know, it's fun. So they look for a
second opinion, got a hold of me and the sounds were played to me
and I'm like, that sounds more like a Hemholt's residence and not a you
know, a person or an entity. I said, get ahold of this
ghost hunting team. Have them do some footwork for me, And I basically
said, look for a place outside the house that's near a vent that may
have a little hole in it, because vents can actually play with sound.
It can amplify them and change the frequency as it bounces back and forth through
the vent. So this team went out and they followed my request and they
found that in the fence pole outside of this person's house, right next to
an air intake vent, there was a missing screw and they blew across it
and sure enough there was noise. There was this moaning noise. So this
moaning noise was being amplified through the duct work of the ventilation system of this
house, and in the end, came across sounding more like a person moaning
and whispering versus what it originally sounded like. So here originally they thought it
was paranormal. It was a Hemholtz residence. It was sounding with their reaction,
what was their reaction after you debunked it for them? Their response was
that there was a spirit living in the pole of the fence and they were
speaking through this hole. They were that. Yeah, no, they were
Wow. The homeowner understood what I said and took my my deductions to heart
and didn't believe it. But these ghost centers were you know, you know
how some are just so dead set on it has to be paranormal. Yeah,
so they should be trying to debunk things before you. That's just really
important. Now the homeowner did she like plug up the hole and did the
noise stop? It stopped? Literally Wow. Went to home depot, got
some standard cocking, just you know, squeeze that in there. It stopped.
So she brought that to the ghost hunting team's attention and they said,
well, now you've locked a spear in there and they can't get out,
and you need to let them out. I'm no way. What TV shows
have you been watching. Oh my god, Yeah, there's something along the
same line I mentioned. It's called a Shuman residence. I just didn't ask
you about that. Yeah. Thunderstorms create impersound, which your sound frequencies below
twenty hurts the human I should have said earlier, But the average human can
hear between twenty hurts and twenty thousand hurts. Below that, some humans can
hear down to seventeen eighteen hurts, but it's not common. But impersound typically
can cause all these symptoms that we perceive to be paranormal activity, anything from
anxiety to scope of stasia, the feeling of being watched. It can actually
cause your organs to tremble. If it's strong enough, it could cause things
to appear to slide off of tables. Because there's little amounts of vibration going
on, it's as if you had a sound speaker in your house blasting music.
You know, it vibrates and shakes things in the house. Imfrasound can
do the same thing, even though you can't hear it, it's there.
So during thunderstorm, some of this infrasound gets trapped within the storm and gets
trapped between the air currents in the ionosphere, which I explained earlier about the
ionosphere, and it literally will bounce back and forth and it will increase in
intensity. Eventually it has to go somewhere. Sometimes it passes through when harmless
legals up into the atmosphere, but a lot of it comes down back to
Earth. Now, if you have an infrasound analyzer like I do, you
can actually listen and record this and it literally comes across as nature's heartbeat because
it's pulsing because of the sound bouncing off of the atmosphere. And again this
is infrasound. Now, how many people you heard claim that paranormal activity increases
during storms. Some people like to believe that this is storms create an energy
that entities can harness, and then all these noises and physical apparitions occurred.
My theory is, which is commonly held by the scientific paranoal investigators in the
field, is that these human resonances which I explained are coming down and this
infrasound is causing this increased perception of paranormal activity, whether it be physically felt
or perceivably being seen. Because INFRASONND can cause all sorts of hallucinations, It
can cause things to shake, falloff shells, slide off the tables. So
where a lot of people believe this paranormal activity during thunderstorms is coming on the
paranormal side, for me, I believe it's coming from these human resonances.
Very interesting. But you did talk to earlier about the medical conditions from that
particular woman in the your pain in the headache, any other interesting cases that
you were on where it turned out to be something medical on the people that
lived in the home. Okay, here's one. So I had this particular
case where this woman had reached out to ghost hunting teams because she was having
what she believed to be someone trying to contact her through visions. We've all
heard of what are called hypnogogic and hypnopompic hallucinations. This is when you're in
the process of either waking up or falling asleep and you become more coherent than
your body's ready for. So you'll get these reports of people feeling like they're
being held down or being choked, or they're hearing voices or seeing apparitions as
they're waking up or falling asleep. That's not paranormal, they're hypnopompic and hypnogogic
hallucinations. It's basically trickery from our own mind. Well, this woman had
reached out to some ghost hunting teams and they went in there with their flashy
devices and try to claim that place was haunted. And one of them was
trying to speak to her, but she wanted a second opinion and got referred
to me. And I started speaking to her, and I asked her to
explain these visions she believed she was having, and to me, they were
too vivid. You know, sometimes you can have vivid dreams if you're on
certain medications for anxiety or depression, because they tend to play with some of
the chemicals in your brain. But she wasn't on any of those medications.
So it led me to believe there's something called cryptomensia. It's basically a forgotten
memory. So I suggested that she reached out to a hypnotherapist, someone who
could help her douce some memory of regression underneath hypnosis. And basically what they
found was, it turns out she had in these visions, she kept having
this vision of this young boy. Well, through this hypnosis, it turns
out that she learned that she wasn't an only child. When she was young,
she had a brother that was about a year older than her, and
through doing some research through the government, she learned that this brother was given
up for adoption in the youth because it was a single mother, that she
had lost the father and they couldn't She couldn't afford to take care of these
kids, and that the older brother had medical issues, so she put them
up her adoption to a family that could provide insurance that would help this young
boy. Unfortunately, the boy didn't survive, but in the end she learned
that she had this brother. She was able to reach out to the family
get pictures and it turns out the pictures where they're the same person she was
having visions of. So where this pyanomal group thought there this person, these
ghosts hunters thought that this person was having you know, contact from someone who
died and that her place was haunted. It turns out it was cryptomancia.
It was literally a forgotten memory that had resurface after all these years. She
never figured out what triggered it. They had been a trigger at some point,
but something triggered this memory and in the end she was sad that this
young gentleman she couldn't reunite with, but she was happy to know that.
You know, these visions were just a forgotten memory that there they There wasn't
anything wrong with her. So you said that he was a year older than
she was. When when and how old was she when he was one?
So she had to be an infancy, then she had to be No,
he was a year older than her, but he wasn't a year old she
was. I believe she was around three or four years old, so he
was a year older than that. So she was remembering this young boy,
but he didn't live much past young adulthood, unfortunately due to these medical ailments.
But she learned of this brother and was able to at least get to
know his his adopted family. I see, that's interesting because I was gonna
say she was really if she was much younger than that, I might have
been kind of like on the cusp of maybe his spirit was letting her know,
hey, I'm your brother and you had a brother kind of thing,
you know what I mean. But the fact that she was three or four
definitely would be logical that it was recurring memory that had been buried somewhere and
brought back with some sort of trigger that maybe came back. What is piezo
electricity? I think I said that right, piso electricity, piezo electricity.
That's really getting into something technical, but basically it falls into something very similar
like electrostatic bias. But you know how many times have you heard, oh,
I feel a cold spot, I feel that hair, My hairs are
standing up on end. I feel that something's here. Often electricity hangs out
in the air as a static electricity where we it doesn't move. It literally
will just stay there in the air undisturbed. How often do you rub your
feet against a carpet, Go and touch a metal door knob and you'll see
a spark and you'll feel that, you know, that electric city running from
your finger into the doorknob. So there's these various forms of electricity that I
feel, in some cases are misinterpret as paranormal And all you need is a
simple let's see if I have one right here? I do this device here,
actually see if I can get it. This is an electrostatic analyzer.
It literally picks up this stagnant electricity in the air, which can perceivably cause
the feeling of being watched. It can cause the feeling of prickly goose bunsensation,
it can cause the feeling of cold spots. So where often in the
paranormal field it is perceived that there are entities around you, with this paranormal
activity, I can often prove it's just stagnant electricity in there. Don't get
me wrong, I'm not saying that paranormal activity doesn't exist. I've had my
own experiences when we can get into that if you want to at some point.
But more often than not, I do find that there is a scientific
cause for what's being perceived as paranormal. What about a photographic anomalies, because
I know I find a lot of I take a lot of pictures and ye
when I'm on an investigation, I'll take a lot of pictures of windows and
mirrors, and I see a lot of faces when we zoom in on them.
What do you think about all that? Well, obviously a lot of
that has to do with pariodolia. You know what paridolia is. Part there's
a party of there's a party of brain. For those who may not be
completely familiar with it, there's a part of your brain called the fusive form.
Now, this is part of your brain that recognizes the familiar and tries
to make sense out of confusion with what you know to be familiar. That's
why people often see a funny rabbits and clouds, or they see, you
know, Elvis and a cracker. When we were younger, there wasn't such
thing as cable television, or there wasn't internet television. You were getting all
your television through radio broad casts, so you could look at a TV channel
where there wasn't a broadcast and you could see static. If you looked at
static long enough, your brain's going to try and make sense of the confusion,
and you're going to start seeing faces. You're going to start seeing what's
perceived to be you know, words. You may even start to hear things
in there in the background, because that's your brain trying to make sense out
of confusion. But when it comes to photos, I'm not saying everything has
an explanation, but there are a lot of things that get overlooked. And
there's something called chromatic aberration, which is basically when there is a color outline
around a person, and this is often misinterpreted as an aura. I'm not
saying that there's never been an ora. Photos that's not for me to say.
I'm just saying I've seen plenty of cases where this chromatic aberration. It's
also known as purple fringing because often it comes across as purple. There's something
called backscatter that's primarily where the whole ORBS thing comes into play. I have
yet personally to see any positive proof where an ORB couldn't be explained scientifically with
either plasma or the term backscatter. Back in the nineties, there was something
called Yahoo Groups. This was before MySpace and Facebook and all these all the
social media outlets that we have now. Back then, Yahoo groups is where
people would go to discuss things that they enjoyed with other people who would enjoy
them. There was a popular group by David Alwister. It was a pretty
popular group piece to talk about some interesting, various, somewhat paranormal things.
But as a way to hype up his group, he started claiming that orbs
or paranormal in nature, particularly if you found them near graveyards. Now,
if you go take pictures and graveyards, they are typically these large fields.
They're very susceptible to stagnant humidity, and you're gonna get orbs all over the
place. You know you're gonna get all these plant life and whatnot that are
releasing yep. So he used this as kind of a hype to get people
to join us Yahoo group with this discussion that orbs are paranormal and there's something
basically called the availability cascade where information gets passed from person to person to person,
and enough people hear it, you're going to believe it without any proof.
I mean, if you ton of your friends tell you something's true,
you're going to believe it even without evidence because you know the preponderance. Wow,
well true that Well, thank you so much for this enlightening conversation today.
I really do appreciate you coming on and telling us how your team goes
about debunking things that people misunderstand to be paranormal activity. Ghostly listeners. You
can follow me on my website, author eleanor Wagner dot com, where there
are links to my books and video updates and photographs. Thank you, paranormal
enthusiasts for tuning in today. I hope you'll come back again. Remember to
tap into your own gifts everyone has now, and in the meantime, make
sure you're creeping it real,