1 00:00:17,199 --> 00:00:20,760 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. Am Emily Trishinsky, 2 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,839 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:23,879 --> 00:00:28,399 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, 4 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,039 and if you are interested in supporting our work, you can go over 5 00:00:31,079 --> 00:00:34,640 to the Federalist dot com and sign up for the premium version of our website 6 00:00:34,679 --> 00:00:39,119 as well. Today, joining us to talk about an especially important and timely 7 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:44,560 topic is James Tronowski. He is with Americans for Prosperity, where he covers 8 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,280 and works on tech issues, innovation issues. He's a senior contributor over at 9 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,719 Young Voices, and he is here to help us break down all of the 10 00:00:52,759 --> 00:00:58,079 developments of which there actually are some in the battle over section seven oh two. 11 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,920 My gosh, that sounds so weedy and nerdy, but James, thank 12 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,120 you for coming on to help us work through this. Of course, thanks 13 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,599 for having me absolutely so section seven oh two. It is weedy, it 14 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,680 is nerdy, but oh my gosh, it's so incredibly important. It ends. 15 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,719 The authorization for seven oh two expires at the end of the year, 16 00:01:15,879 --> 00:01:22,879 so some reform minded, privacy minded, freedom minded members of the Senate last 17 00:01:22,879 --> 00:01:27,799 week unveiled a bill that would reform section seven oh two before the authorization elapse 18 00:01:29,239 --> 00:01:36,079 elapses. The Biden administration and the security state more broadly really opposes any changes 19 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,719 to second section seven oh two. They like to do the kind of national 20 00:01:38,719 --> 00:01:44,120 security emotional blackmail, saying we won't be safe if Section O two is changed 21 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,359 in any way whatsoever. Before we dive into all of that, James, 22 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,959 could you basically just refresh people's memory on what section seven oh two is, 23 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,000 the history of it, and what it allows the government to do. Absolutely 24 00:01:56,079 --> 00:02:00,560 so. Section seven o two of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act FISA was done 25 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:05,879 back in two thousand and eight. This was basically a codification of some of 26 00:02:05,879 --> 00:02:09,479 the surveillance powers that we saw going on underneath the Bush administration. This is 27 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:14,439 one of those things that we saw happening underneath the Patriot Act when we had 28 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,120 nine to eleven happened as somebody who was living in New York at the time 29 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:21,120 certainly can speak back to remembering how scary it was to be there. I 30 00:02:21,199 --> 00:02:24,360 was actually only in elementary school, but we went into an emergency and it 31 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,879 was a very wild time to be around and you know, because of that 32 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:34,400 fear of having that there, we empowered you know, the National Security Apparatus 33 00:02:34,439 --> 00:02:37,520 to go and have these kinds of surveillance powers so that they could better respond 34 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:43,919 to threats that were happening abroad. Section seven oh two specifically focuses on collecting 35 00:02:44,159 --> 00:02:49,680 information and communications of non US persons. Now, the problem that often comes 36 00:02:49,759 --> 00:02:53,680 up with this particular authority is that, with the way that the Internet works, 37 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,280 more broadly speaking, Americans, data is not necessarily in one location. 38 00:02:58,479 --> 00:03:00,879 It's kind of, you know, hamized throughout the entire Internet, were broadly 39 00:03:00,879 --> 00:03:06,159 speaking, across the entire globes. So when the intelligence community is trying to 40 00:03:06,159 --> 00:03:10,080 collect information and communications of non US persons, it can also incidentally collect Americans 41 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:15,560 communications and this would certainly go, in our view, be a violation of 42 00:03:15,599 --> 00:03:21,319 the Fourth Amendment, where you're having that right to privacy and having those protections 43 00:03:21,319 --> 00:03:25,240 against government intrusion on you when you've done nothing wrong. So that's really what 44 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,560 it's at the core of this particular authority. We've seen it go and get 45 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:35,199 abused in the fifteen years that it's been around. Countless times. We've seen 46 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,039 other aspects of the FISA authorities get abused. Most notably, I think the 47 00:03:38,039 --> 00:03:42,960 ones that conservatives are most familiar with are actually underneath title one of FSA, 48 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,159 when we saw the FBI go and abuse its authorities there to go and spy 49 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,560 on Carter page. That's the one that I think everybody's most familiar with. 50 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,840 But Section SO and O two is the one that, as you aptly noted, 51 00:03:53,919 --> 00:03:57,520 is up for reauthorization here at the end of the year and is at 52 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,280 the focus of a lot of conversations right now. Very important topic, and 53 00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:03,520 I'm glad that we're here to go and have a discussion about it. Yeah, 54 00:04:03,759 --> 00:04:06,560 can you tell us about the section seven oh two database, because there's 55 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:12,879 a lot of evidence it's been completely misused, and there's a lot of evidence 56 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,720 that, you know, what they are collecting in the seven oh two database 57 00:04:16,199 --> 00:04:19,879 is just vast and it's not even all as I understand it. You could 58 00:04:19,879 --> 00:04:25,040 correct me on this, James. Some of this is data that can be 59 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,360 bought, is that? Or data that can be not necessarily bought, but 60 00:04:28,399 --> 00:04:31,680 you can sort of tap into with permission of some of these big tech companies. 61 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,839 Is that correct? Yeah, that's certainly is part of the program. 62 00:04:34,959 --> 00:04:40,519 More broadly speaking, is that they're able to go and buy these communications through 63 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:46,120 third party data brokers. That certainly is something that has been taught taught about 64 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:51,720 quite quite expansively. And depending on what numbers you're looking at again kind of 65 00:04:51,759 --> 00:04:56,920 as you pointed to, for the abuses, they are vast in the degree. 66 00:04:57,639 --> 00:05:00,079 Just a couple of years ago it was over two million, I believe 67 00:05:00,079 --> 00:05:06,199 the Memory service right communications that we're intercepted for Americans by the FBI, and 68 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:11,199 even by their own revised numbers that they used for most recently it was still 69 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,319 about over two hundred thousand for the FBI, is what they were saying. 70 00:05:14,879 --> 00:05:18,040 So you're talking about vast kinds of information and how it's been abused. Just 71 00:05:18,079 --> 00:05:20,879 to go over some of the brief things that we've seen kind of come out 72 00:05:20,879 --> 00:05:27,639 in public reporting from PISA, court reports and opinions you've got. You know, 73 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:30,079 they've abused this authority to go and spy on Black Lives Matter protesters. 74 00:05:30,199 --> 00:05:33,480 They've used this authority to go and spy on protesters that were president at the 75 00:05:33,519 --> 00:05:38,759 capital for January sixth. They've used this authority to spy on a sitting member 76 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,600 of Congress. So they clan that's defensive though I don't really think the Fourth 77 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,959 Amendment cares whether or not the search was defensive or not. They've gone and 78 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,480 used this to go and target donors to a political campaign, nineteen thousand of 79 00:05:49,519 --> 00:05:54,160 them as a matter of fact. So we've seen rampant and repeated abuses. 80 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,120 And every single time that this happens and they get their hands caught in the 81 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,160 constitutional cookie jar, if you will, the intelligen community always comes down and 82 00:06:00,199 --> 00:06:03,399 says, well, you know, this was this was a very particular set 83 00:06:03,439 --> 00:06:09,000 of circumstances, and this this never happens otherwise, and we've taken internal reform 84 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,199 measures to make sure that something like this never happens again, until it happens 85 00:06:13,199 --> 00:06:16,000 again, of course, and then we're back having the same conversation time and 86 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,279 time again. And I think that the problem that kind of persists here is 87 00:06:20,319 --> 00:06:25,600 that when I'm looking at it, whether you're a conservative or liberal or progressive, 88 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,959 you know, I think that the bigger problem here is that these are 89 00:06:29,959 --> 00:06:33,680 the very institutions that are meant to be protecting the Americans, you know, 90 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:40,560 national security, our public safety right and when you see that our intelligence community 91 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,959 more broadly speaking, is using and abusing this authority and then when they aren't 92 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,160 using and abusing this authority, that the people that did it aren't really being 93 00:06:46,199 --> 00:06:51,079 held accountable. It undermines your trust in the very institutions that are meant to 94 00:06:51,079 --> 00:06:55,160 be keeping you safe, and I think that that's actually very dangerous. I 95 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,759 don't think that you want to be in that position in the long run. 96 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,720 So that's why it's actually really great that we see, you know, the 97 00:07:00,759 --> 00:07:05,319 Senators and members of the House of Representatives that came together last week to unveil 98 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:11,639 that reform package is so important because that's what they're trying to tackle here. 99 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,480 I think they rightly realize that these abuses they just can't continue as it's currently 100 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,959 going on. That we need to go and restore the public trust in these 101 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,560 institutions, right And that's why I think that at the end of the day, 102 00:07:25,839 --> 00:07:29,839 this is very important and we can't just keep letting the status quo continue 103 00:07:29,879 --> 00:07:33,399 on. The Senate right now is actually considering trying to do something as a 104 00:07:33,439 --> 00:07:39,399 short term reauthorization to Section SEVENO two within its proposal for the continuing Resolution. 105 00:07:40,439 --> 00:07:45,319 So that's that just goes to show just how strong the intelligence community has when 106 00:07:45,319 --> 00:07:47,680 it comes to members of Congress trying to you know, safeguarded its authorities there. 107 00:07:47,839 --> 00:07:49,879 So I think that that's something that we also have to keep in mind. 108 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,720 Yeah, absolutely, Can you tell us a little bit more about I 109 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,439 mean, so Ron Wyden, who is you know, has long been a 110 00:07:58,439 --> 00:08:03,879 sort of champion of the personal privacy cause, and Mike Lee. It is 111 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,199 a pretty bar my partisan group of senators. Again, their plan was sort 112 00:08:07,199 --> 00:08:13,920 of immediately criticized by people in the Biden administration for you know, all of 113 00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:18,079 the various expected reasons that you just discussed, James, What are they proposing 114 00:08:18,319 --> 00:08:22,480 basically in terms of reforming seven oh two. That's a good question, Emily, 115 00:08:22,519 --> 00:08:24,959 because the reality is that I don't think that they've come to the table 116 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,160 with anything. I've talked with the director of the Office of Director of National 117 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:33,759 Intelligence, Avrel Haynes. I've you know, from all publicly available information when 118 00:08:33,759 --> 00:08:37,840 we're talking with offices or we're reading what's being reported. They haven't really come 119 00:08:37,879 --> 00:08:43,120 to the table with anything. And even when they criticized this bill from Senators 120 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,919 Widen and Lee and Representatives Warren Davidson and Zoelofkran, I can't help but notice 121 00:08:46,919 --> 00:08:50,399 the guy also prefaced it with the fact that he hadn't read the bill, 122 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,600 which seems like a pretty important part to do before you start commenting on it. 123 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,279 So yeah, it's a little rich, but you know, to date, 124 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:01,360 I can't but note this is really important that at the end of the 125 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,600 day, there's only one bill right now on the Capitol Hill that goes and 126 00:09:05,639 --> 00:09:09,639 reauthorizes Section seven H two advisa, and it is this bill. There is 127 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,720 nothing else out there right now. The administration and certainly the more intelligence community 128 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:18,480 community friendly members of Congress. You know, I certainly tried to push for 129 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:24,080 I would say weaker kinds of things, whether that's a straight clean reauthorization, 130 00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:28,679 which being completely frank, there there aren't the votes for that, or just 131 00:09:28,879 --> 00:09:33,919 a simple kind of reform package that would codify the the internal reforms that the 132 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,039 FBI has proposed on their own. Those are some of the things that we've 133 00:09:37,039 --> 00:09:39,399 heard about. But again there's no formal proposal. I know that in the 134 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,240 Judiciary Committee right now. There's also another con proposal, but it's not out 135 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,279 there yet. But to the point that you raised, you know, the 136 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,799 thing that's unique about the Government's of rail AND's for Formact is that, as 137 00:09:50,799 --> 00:09:56,759 you pointed, out Ron Wyden, who's a progressive senator from from from from 138 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:01,600 Oregon, and and you know Senator Mike Lee, who is a fantastic conservative 139 00:10:01,639 --> 00:10:05,039 out of Utah. These are not like, you know, your typical bandwagon 140 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,480 of people that you'd see to pop up on legislation together seeing thing with Zoelofgrin 141 00:10:07,519 --> 00:10:11,399 and Warren Davidson. But they all rightly recognize that there's an issue here and 142 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:16,200 that's why it's important. Right So what this bill is trying to do here 143 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,279 in many respects is number one critically, I think, which is something that 144 00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:24,399 many members as well as the administration as well as the intelligence community has rightly 145 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,759 recognized that there's value to Section seven o two for national security purposes. They've 146 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,759 said the intelligence community has said that seventy percent of the President's daily briefing comes 147 00:10:33,759 --> 00:10:37,480 from material as produced by Section seven O two, which at least on some 148 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,120 level makes me feel a little queasy. But you saying that a side for 149 00:10:41,159 --> 00:10:46,600 a second, Yeah, you know, it certainly has some value for them. 150 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,919 Apparently they certainly feel that way. And I think that what this also 151 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,679 tries to do is put some guardrails in place there and put some more importantly, 152 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,559 accountability measures in there for when you have, you know, members of 153 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,440 these various intelligence agencies of using this authority inappropriately, being able to hold them 154 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,360 accountable, and not just focusing on seven oh two. What I like to 155 00:11:07,399 --> 00:11:09,879 say is that I think that the United States has a surveillance problem. More 156 00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:15,360 broadly speaking, it's not just Section seven oh two that empowers it. Notably, 157 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,679 in the executive you have Executive Order twelve triple three, which also goes 158 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:24,120 and outlines a lot of these surveillance authorities that the intelligence community uses and relies 159 00:11:24,159 --> 00:11:28,159 on. So this goes in let's Congress routaine, it's oversight function, It 160 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,679 goes and introduces accountability measures, It puts in you know, those protections for 161 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:35,240 American civil liberties. It tries to make people be more aware of when this 162 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,720 stuff is happening in terms of if you were a target of something in the 163 00:11:39,759 --> 00:11:41,799 FIA support, which I think is important because, as Mike Lee said at 164 00:11:41,799 --> 00:11:46,159 the press conference, you wouldn't even know if you were targeted because it's all 165 00:11:46,279 --> 00:11:50,559 classified, and that's really hard to defend yourself if you don't even know. 166 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,200 So again, I think that this bill is really important because it is a 167 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,559 good conversation starter and forces everybody to come to the table and realize that, 168 00:11:58,639 --> 00:12:03,279 you know, isn't a pathway for clean reauthorization of Section seven h two. 169 00:12:03,759 --> 00:12:05,720 And here are the kinds of things that we think can go and actually fix 170 00:12:05,799 --> 00:12:09,600 that, and go and tackle the core issue that I highlighted, which is 171 00:12:09,639 --> 00:12:11,440 that people don't trust these institutions that are meant to protect them anymore. 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These are such urgent situations as somebody who studies the 207 00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:03,679 policy really closely, James, what do you make of how they approached this? 208 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:05,840 You know, did they really come out swinging? Did they come out 209 00:15:05,879 --> 00:15:11,240 with something that could be acceptable sort of at first blush and isn't a negotiation 210 00:15:11,399 --> 00:15:15,639 point? A lot of times that obviously happens in Congress. Your first bill 211 00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:20,039 is a negotiation point. It's a starting point. Maybe it's further than it 212 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,600 needs to be in one direction, and you're willing to talk and get it 213 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,240 close to the center. How did they sort of approach the strategically or what 214 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,200 do you make of how they approached it strategically with the proposal that they've put 215 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,240 forth so far. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great proposal. 216 00:15:33,279 --> 00:15:35,600 It hits many of the things that I think that we Americans for Prosperity 217 00:15:35,639 --> 00:15:41,679 care about in terms of protecting American civil liberties, maintaining that national security you 218 00:15:41,679 --> 00:15:46,000 know function that the authority certainly grants that there certainly is a value there. 219 00:15:46,159 --> 00:15:48,840 But as we like to say, you know, it's not that your constitutional 220 00:15:48,919 --> 00:15:54,759 rights and national security are mutually exclusive goals. You can actually have something here 221 00:15:54,879 --> 00:15:58,279 that can go and actually be mutually reinforcing where you can have your civil liberties 222 00:15:58,279 --> 00:16:03,480 being protected while achieving that national security mission that these agencies are responsible for carrying 223 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,919 out. And so, you know, maybe in some way, certainly from 224 00:16:07,919 --> 00:16:12,039 the administration's posture, it's a very aggressive approach to dealing with Section seven zero 225 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,360 two. But that's fine. That sounds like a them problem more so than 226 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,080 mine, because their preference right now, at least as far as they've been 227 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,440 publicly talking about it, is they want a clean reauthorization, and as I've 228 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,879 been saying repeatedly, there's just not the votes for that. So they need 229 00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:30,799 to come to the table and figure out what they can live with, how 230 00:16:30,799 --> 00:16:33,759 they can go and work with some of these things here. And you know, 231 00:16:33,799 --> 00:16:37,159 they like talking about the agency, see, like how they don't want 232 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,080 to have to go to court because you know, somebody could die and I 233 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,759 can't help, but note that there are like accessions for emergencies, and the 234 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,399 threshold here is where you would require a warrant normally that you would have to 235 00:16:47,399 --> 00:16:49,440 get a warrant. If there are other lower thresholds that you would have to 236 00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:53,320 hate in other kinds of circumstances, then you don't necessarily have to worry about 237 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:59,039 that. So I think it is pretty cognizant about trying to be flexible to 238 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,519 dynamic circums chances that we can't always foresee. So I think that that's where 239 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,880 it's a little bit silly that the Biden administration is coming out swinging so hard 240 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,640 against it, when, as I said before, they haven't read the bill, 241 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,720 so it makes it a little silly that they're pushing back on something that 242 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,160 they haven't read yet. I'd rather get into the nuance of where they might 243 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:18,880 disagree, so that, as you kind of mentioned, we can go and 244 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,039 take what we like and try to find some compromise there. But this bill, 245 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:26,839 at least from our perspective, has a lot of the ideal things that 246 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,680 we'd want to see in a reform package. And I guess one other thing 247 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,440 I'll note too that I think is very funny for this particular administration is back 248 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,640 when FISA was being deliberated on the Senate floor, then Senator Joe Biden was 249 00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:45,039 very staunchly opposed to FISA because he thought it was unconstitutional and that it would 250 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,920 result in all kinds of abuses. So, you know, it's a little 251 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,680 rich when you have an environment where Senator Joe Biden is now contradicting you know, 252 00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:55,640 President Biden. You know, once he got into office, I guess 253 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,599 all of a sudden, his feelings about this magically changed or something. It's 254 00:17:57,599 --> 00:18:02,480 a little odd to me, but that I think is that's what I would 255 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,440 say is the big important part here is that is a big, bold proposal. 256 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,559 I think a lot of people realize that, but it does go and 257 00:18:07,599 --> 00:18:11,160 set the tone for I think where a decent portion of Congress is kind of 258 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,359 thinking about this issue. I mean, make a mistake. You've got Representative 259 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,519 Jim Jordan that's on board with this kind of stuff too, you know, 260 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,880 Mike Lee. You've got all across the ideological spectrum, and that was even 261 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,200 represented in the kind of groups that were there at the press conference for the 262 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,559 introduction of that legislation. You had Americans for Prosperity there standing with Demand Progress 263 00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:34,440 or the American Civil Liberties Union. You have Freedom Works that's also supportive of 264 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,279 this kind of a measure. So you've got a broad swath of ideological spectrum 265 00:18:38,279 --> 00:18:44,759 of organizations and politicians that realize the problem here and know that this is your 266 00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:48,759 best path forward to getting solutions. And that's what we're focused on again. 267 00:18:48,839 --> 00:18:52,359 You don't want a situation coming up where like we've seen pop up recently, 268 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,960 where the Senate's thinking about trying to do that short term reauthorization. That's, 269 00:18:56,039 --> 00:19:00,039 in my view, that's unacceptable insofar as that you've had all year to go 270 00:19:00,079 --> 00:19:03,720 and talk about this subject. This is not like something that just magically popped 271 00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:07,319 up on your doorstep here at the eleventh hour. This has been here all 272 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,920 year, and to go and try to do a short term reauthorization I think 273 00:19:11,039 --> 00:19:17,079 is just disingenuous to many people that are you know, seriously concerned about this, 274 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,599 many members of Congress that are working on this, that want to have 275 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,960 that conversation. And that's why I think that this is important to try to 276 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:29,279 get this done before the end of the year. Now, are there process 277 00:19:30,559 --> 00:19:34,839 are there executive powers that can override say Section seven h two elapses. I 278 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,920 think something like this happened under the Trump administration. But you can correct me 279 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,359 on this, James. Does the president have powers to step in if it 280 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,640 elapses? What could happen if Congress doesn't step in? Yeah, So right 281 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,480 now, if we were to hit the end of the year and there were 282 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,680 no reauthorization of Section seven h two, it's not like the sky falls and 283 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,759 that all of a sudden, they can't go and do their surveillance, you 284 00:19:55,799 --> 00:19:59,960 know, activities as they otherwise would. So they get certifications from the Five 285 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,839 Court for one year durations. So right now, even if they were to 286 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,799 go on laps on section seven O two, the intelligence community could still go 287 00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:11,200 and use those kinds of surveillance powers all the way through until April of next 288 00:20:11,279 --> 00:20:15,480 year, in twenty twenty four, so they don't have to worry about something 289 00:20:15,519 --> 00:20:19,240 that happens if we don't go to December thirty first, per se. But 290 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,200 obviously you don't want that to happen. I don't think that you want to 291 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,279 be operating with that lack of certainty for what happens post April of twenty twenty 292 00:20:26,279 --> 00:20:30,039 four, if you're the intelligence community, and if you're a member of Congress, 293 00:20:30,039 --> 00:20:33,319 I don't think that's a position that you want to be in. And 294 00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:37,839 yes, you were right that it's not that the president necessarily overrides, but 295 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,039 there are broader surveillance authorities that are existing. Like I said before, Executive 296 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,960 Order twelve Triple three certainly governs a lot of that which this bill tries to 297 00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:52,920 track tackle in terms of putting in guardrails and congressional oversight over that aspect of 298 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,359 surveillance. Like I said before, it's not just section seven O two like 299 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,400 that. That is one piece of a very large surveillance pie, if you 300 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,079 will, and that's certainly what the GSRA is trying to tackle, right, 301 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,119 it's not just trying to tackle FAISA, but it is trying to also integrate 302 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,319 in some solutions to tackle twelve triple three as well. And what I would 303 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,319 say is, and this is part of the crowd that is happy for like 304 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,400 let watching these things expire in the sunset. During the Trump administration, this 305 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:26,119 did happen with Section two fifteen. That authority also expired because they couldn't come 306 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,680 to any kind of agreement for that particular program. And you know what ended 307 00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:33,720 up happening was that I think a lot of those things that they were doing 308 00:21:33,839 --> 00:21:40,279 underneath that specific program just more or less got reshuffled into different existing authorities. 309 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,960 And the problem there is that again, if it's not if it's not in 310 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,119 Section Semino two, let's say, if we let that, if that were 311 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,880 to go and expire, the larger issue becomes that then it just again gets 312 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,559 reshuffled into existing authorities underneath let's say something like a twelve triple three where there 313 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,519 is no congressional oversight. It's a lot harder to go and have thoseuardrails in 314 00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:03,240 place, and it's a lot more of a black box. So that would 315 00:22:03,279 --> 00:22:07,279 be a very big missed opportunity if we go and let it lapse. I 316 00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:10,519 think that you don't want to go and have this go into a situation where 317 00:22:10,519 --> 00:22:15,920 it's somehow less transparent and has less oversight. So that's why I think, 318 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,599 you know, from my perspective, at least we want to see it reauthorize 319 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,079 with those major reforms, so that way we can have congressional oversight, we 320 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,960 can have accountability for people when they are abusing these authorities, and we can 321 00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:29,680 go and try to put some guardrails on the executive not trying to stop it 322 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,119 from doing what it's doing, but trying to hold them accountable for what they 323 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:37,119 are doing when they're doing it. 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That's gold 343 00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:17,519 code dot com slash Federalist or call eight five five six one eight ten thirty. 344 00:24:17,759 --> 00:24:21,880 That's such an important point because I think it's worth remembering that we're actually 345 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,079 talking about something that came out of FISA, which in and of itself came 346 00:24:25,079 --> 00:24:30,720 out of the Church Committee and the congressional exposure of dramatic abuses that occurred over 347 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,720 the course of decades on behalf of the CIA, the FBI, and this 348 00:24:34,839 --> 00:24:38,200 was supposed to be a solution, and in fact, you know, we're 349 00:24:38,519 --> 00:24:45,599 talking about abuses of the solution and the ways that the solution have been used 350 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:52,920 extra legally in some cases but other cases not extra legally to abuse people's rights, 351 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:57,400 constitutional rights. And so I guess, James, how optimistic are you 352 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:03,640 that Congress can really rain in the people who are abusing these powers, given 353 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,759 that there's just this massive spider web, as you say, this isn't just 354 00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:11,799 about seven zero two. There's now this massive spider web of surveillance powers that 355 00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:17,039 exist that you know, to untangle them, you sort of take a shot 356 00:25:17,079 --> 00:25:21,519 across the bow and untangle some of these powers. But this is this is 357 00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:25,480 a vast apparatus at this point. Yeah, you're absolutely right, And I 358 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,079 mean, given the state of Congress these days, I'm not exactly sure I 359 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:32,359 want to be a betting man on the viability of any particular proposal, but 360 00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:34,440 I mean, I'm always hopeful that we can go and come to a solution 361 00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:38,480 here because this is just too important. You know, our national security does 362 00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:42,680 matter. I think that that's like something that's i think underappreciated from these groups 363 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:47,039 that are talking about this, is that we recognize the value that can come 364 00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:48,519 out of Section seven or two. But again, we're not just going to 365 00:25:48,519 --> 00:25:51,960 sit there and say that gives you a blank check to do whatever you want. 366 00:25:52,519 --> 00:25:56,240 There needs to be reforms done here. So that's why we're very supportive 367 00:25:56,279 --> 00:25:59,599 of something like the government surveillance or formact. I think that that is incredibly 368 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,119 important. And I think that you know, to your point, with the 369 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,599 discovery of rampant abuses, it's only going to be a situation where it continues 370 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,200 to get, you know, exact rated even more and more because what ends 371 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:18,200 up happening is that we're having more people become online in many ways, especially 372 00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:22,799 with the gen Z who's digital natives as a generation entirely. So that means 373 00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:26,200 that there's a lot of information that's getting produced online, and these programs that 374 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,160 were meant to be the solution, I think what ended up happening in many 375 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,000 ways is that it was just a very simple case of scope creep. Right. 376 00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:37,519 It was like, oh, well, now there's all this information that's 377 00:26:37,519 --> 00:26:40,240 out here, and if we just go and use it here to tackle this 378 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,440 specific issue, maybe we can go and you know, solve some more problems. 379 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,039 And then they realize, just like many people do, when you have 380 00:26:47,079 --> 00:26:49,599 that vast amount of data at your disposal, it can be extraordinarily valuable and 381 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,279 powerful. So you see that scope creep happening, which I think in many 382 00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:57,680 ways exacerbates the abuses. So it's pretty cyclical in that sense. Right. 383 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:00,920 So you know, I'm not going to get into the prediction game as to 384 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,839 what the proposals viability looks like, but I think that we're certainly hopeful and 385 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:10,000 I think that again, as you pointed out, these abuses are just too 386 00:27:10,079 --> 00:27:12,160 egregious to overlook. And then an errow where we're going to continue to have 387 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:17,640 more people being online putting more data online in general, it makes it that 388 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,519 much more important that we have the government held accountable because when the government is 389 00:27:21,559 --> 00:27:25,559 going and using this these authorities and they do go and do it in this 390 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,599 kind of a fashion, when the people are harmed by it. You know, 391 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,680 it's really hard to go and get any kind of remedy. As I 392 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,759 said before, you don't even know that you're being targeted by it because it's 393 00:27:34,759 --> 00:27:38,519 classified, and it's really hard for you to get insight into the Pisa court 394 00:27:38,519 --> 00:27:42,440 process until well after the fact. So we need to be doing something here. 395 00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:48,079 The time is to fixed visa is now, It's not next year's Let's 396 00:27:48,079 --> 00:27:51,160 not delay this any further. Let's go and have something done here is what 397 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,000 I usually say when we're talking to people about this. There's no point in 398 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,160 trying to punt the ball here. Americans have been waiting too long and have 399 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,799 been abused too much by these authorities, and we need to go and do 400 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,720 something to go and restore some trust in these very institutions that are meant to 401 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:10,799 protect us. It's amazing to look back on the days of Edward Snowden and 402 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:15,400 Juliana Soannge and sort of think of the partisan breakdown. And there have been 403 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:22,160 great conservatives afp Rand Paul who have always been looking at these privacy questions through 404 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,759 the proper lens. But what happens when these become sort of front and center 405 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:33,680 in the news cycle the political discourse is suddenly that national security emotional blackmail also 406 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,599 bubbles to the surface. And I say this empathetically, that's really really persuasive 407 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,440 because it's it's genuinely scary. They're very good at scaring people, and you 408 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,359 know, in moments like this, it feels like the world is teetering on 409 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,759 the brink of World War three. It's a scary time for people, and 410 00:28:48,799 --> 00:28:52,359 so you know, there are reasons that we want to protect the homeland, 411 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:57,400 and that's a very persuasive message. But at the same time, now that 412 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:03,240 you know, can conservative eyes have been really opened to the abuses of the 413 00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:07,480 security state post twenty sixteen, post twenty twenty and a lot of people have 414 00:29:07,559 --> 00:29:12,920 kind of soured on them. Even so, I've still seen some Republicans defending 415 00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:18,440 an untouched version of seven oh two reauthorization. So I just kind of wanted 416 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,720 to get your temperature, James, on where this all stands from that kind 417 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:26,839 of question of partisan breakdown. Is there enough of an appetite among Republicans and 418 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,079 people who are genuinely very concerned about national security and for some good reasons, 419 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,119 is there enough of an appetite to really get something done here? Especially considering 420 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,680 so many Democrats are now. Joe Biden, the example he gave was such 421 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,039 a good one, the arc of Joe Biden on this question, since so 422 00:29:42,079 --> 00:29:48,720 many Democrats are so defensive of the surveillance apparatus now too. Yeah, I 423 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,279 think that's a great question. And what I would say is that when you're 424 00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:56,160 looking at it, it's been a strange bedfellows situation in terms of the kinds 425 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:00,279 of ballmakers that are interested in, you know, obviously magnificant advisor reform, 426 00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:07,000 but I think it's become spillover effects and we've had even other you know less 427 00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:11,799 we'll say, you know, more mainstream. I guess I should say, 428 00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:15,440 like members of the respective parties recognize that you've got to have some kind of 429 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,240 reforms here. I'll note that, you know, you had Chairman of the 430 00:30:18,279 --> 00:30:23,240 Jujudiciary in the Senate, Dick Durbin, noting that he would not go and 431 00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:26,640 just do a clean reauthorization AVISA. And that's very important because he heads up 432 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,119 that committee. That's a position of power, right And like I said, 433 00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:33,160 on the House side, you got Representative Jim Jordan, who's also not a 434 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,000 fan of a clean reauthorization. He's been very clear about that. So I 435 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,440 think that there was actually a very unique moment in time here that we didn't 436 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,880 have two years ago when it was SEC. Section two fifteen that was up 437 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,960 for reauthorization, that we do have now because people have seen the abuses play 438 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,000 out in the open. Like I said, when people found out that the 439 00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:56,799 FBI was abusing these authorities to go inspy on Black Lives Matter protesters and January 440 00:30:56,799 --> 00:31:00,920 sixth protesters and a sitting member of Congress, it just you can't help but 441 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,759 raise your eyebrown and be like what, like what, how is that even 442 00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:07,640 possible? Why is that allowed for an authority that's meant to target non US 443 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,519 persons to be used in this kind of a fashion. It just seems beyond 444 00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:15,759 the pale. And this is why, like I said, you have so 445 00:31:15,839 --> 00:31:19,079 many members certainly in the House for sure, but definitely in the Senate too. 446 00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:26,200 You've got a decent number of co sponsors there of the GSRA that Ron 447 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,799 Whiteen and Mike Lee introduced. So I think that there's plenty of appetite for 448 00:31:29,839 --> 00:31:32,960 reforms. It's just a matter as to how far we can go and take 449 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,400 it. And I think that that's you know, that's something that we have 450 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,960 to still see play out between now and the end of the year. But 451 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,480 one thing that I can say, at least for my part, is anyway 452 00:31:40,519 --> 00:31:44,759 where myself and my role at Americans for Prosperity can can play a role in 453 00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:48,319 terms of helping those conversations along. You know, we're certainly looking forward to 454 00:31:48,319 --> 00:31:52,000 having those conversations with people because we think that this is too important to let, 455 00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:55,599 you know, half measures kind of go through, or to just do 456 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,960 a clean reauthorization, or to let it expire. As you noted, we 457 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,240 do live in a pretty scary world out there. Sometimes there are plenty of 458 00:32:02,279 --> 00:32:06,480 bad things going on. But as I said before, that doesn't mean that 459 00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:09,519 you get a blank checked to whatever you deem necessary to pursue your mission. 460 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:15,200 We have to have some guiding principles that kind of show us the way of 461 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,759 how we're going to do right in this space. And so that's why I 462 00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:22,039 think that there's definitely a decent level of appetite here in Congress to go and 463 00:32:22,079 --> 00:32:25,519 get something done. And I'm personally very excited to see what we can get 464 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:31,519 accomplished here in these conversations. Over the next several weeks, watched out on 465 00:32:31,599 --> 00:32:36,759 Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day Chris helps unpack the connection between 466 00:32:36,759 --> 00:32:39,400 politics and the economy and how it affects your wallet. The economy isn't growing, 467 00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:44,039 it's leeching. Our Tober jobs report is out and it's not good. 468 00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:46,839 The US add at one hundred and fifty thousand jobs. However, a third 469 00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:51,279 of them are government jobs. After the FIT has paused interest rate hikes, 470 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,680 yet again, something has to give. Whether it's happening in DC or down 471 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,359 on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially. Be informed. Check out the 472 00:32:57,359 --> 00:33:00,880 Watchdotal on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski on Apples, Spotify, or wherever 473 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:06,680 you've het your podcasts. And finally, James, this is a big question, 474 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,079 but an important one, and you've touched on this already throughout this entire 475 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,880 conversation. But when conservatives here, you know, maybe from for instance, 476 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:20,720 I think I've seen Mike Gallagher supporting a cleaner reauthorization or opposing efforts to reform 477 00:33:20,759 --> 00:33:25,160 seven oh two. And you've had these conservatives these conversations I imagine with many 478 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,519 conservatives over the years. What should they know? How can they kind of 479 00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:35,759 steal themselves or prepare for some of those very predictable, usual arguments about why 480 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,799 national security is on the line with a seven oh two, a clean seven 481 00:33:37,839 --> 00:33:43,640 oh two reauthorization when people here you know, we absolutely desperately need this to 482 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,240 keep the country safe. There will be people who die from terrorist attacks if 483 00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:52,039 we do not reauthorize section seven oh two. It is of the utmost urgent 484 00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:55,599 importance. What should people know or how should people think about that as those 485 00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:00,559 arguments are increasingly likely to be made in the days ahead. Yeah, I 486 00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:04,000 think, going back to what I said before, it's about keeping firm in 487 00:34:04,039 --> 00:34:07,920 your belief that national security and your civil liberties are not mutually exclusive goals. 488 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,840 And again that while there are certainly national security threats out there, that doesn't 489 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,480 mean that you get to go and pursue any any pathway that you want to 490 00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:20,360 go and get that done. And that you get to abuse the authorities that 491 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,360 are granted to you in statute and have no accountability for when you do that. 492 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:28,199 That's just not tenable anymore. And that you have a lot of people, 493 00:34:29,079 --> 00:34:31,320 a lot of people. We operate in the Americans Prosperity We have over 494 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,960 thirty eight chapter states where we had chapters in and you know, we have 495 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,480 a fifty state presence, and I can tell you there are a lot of 496 00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:44,159 people, a lot of conservatives certainly you could say American of America First Republicans 497 00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:46,920 too, you know, the Donald Trump kind of wing of the party that 498 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:52,480 are very sensitive to this. You know, we have an entire select subcommittee 499 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,559 in the House that's focused on the weaponization of the federal government, and I 500 00:34:54,559 --> 00:34:58,239 would urge those people to think back to that. There's a reason why you 501 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,159 set that up. You were you were work read about the concentration of power 502 00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:05,159 that was existing inside the government and how it was being leveraged in a way 503 00:35:05,199 --> 00:35:08,000 that could you know, negatively impact conservatives. And this is one of those 504 00:35:08,039 --> 00:35:12,079 things that unfortunately, I think we've seen, as a result of scope creep 505 00:35:12,119 --> 00:35:16,199 over the years fifteen years, really start to have a negative impact on everyday 506 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:21,119 Americans in ways that you might not have otherwise thought. So, I think 507 00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:24,239 you can respect the national security implications that people are coming to the table with. 508 00:35:24,599 --> 00:35:28,760 I think you know, you can have those reasonable conversations, but go 509 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,679 and stick firm to the things that you believe in. It's a principle's first 510 00:35:30,679 --> 00:35:35,480 approach. You have to respect civil liberties. If you do not do that, 511 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,000 then what's our constitution but just words printed on a piece of paper. 512 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,679 And that's not I think a situation that many conservatives who are staunch defenders of 513 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,280 the constitution like Mike Lee, would want to be okay with. And I 514 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:50,079 would encourage other Republicans to think about that very hard and long before they go 515 00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:52,800 and think about voting for a clean, real authorization of Section seven zero two. 516 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,039 That's just I think that would be a very unfortunate situation if that's where 517 00:35:57,079 --> 00:36:00,599 you landed. So I would encourage them to go and talk to or organizations 518 00:36:00,639 --> 00:36:05,280 like Americans for Prosperity, like Freedom Works and others to kind of gauge about 519 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,079 how we're looking at this issue. Because we're there, we're ready to stand 520 00:36:08,119 --> 00:36:12,639 with you and work with you to get you to see why this is so 521 00:36:12,679 --> 00:36:15,199 important and why we have to have these kinds of reforms in there so that 522 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,960 we can actually have a stronger, better America. I would argue that having 523 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,880 these kinds of reforms for FISA would actually improve our national security, and so 524 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,960 far is that you're not going to have much of a national security mission if 525 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,480 the people don't believe in the very institutions that are supposed to be carrying that 526 00:36:30,559 --> 00:36:36,239 out. So that's why this is so so important. This is just really 527 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,920 helpful, James, and I think Gallagher actually himself, Mike Gallagher, has 528 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:44,639 a somewhat nuanced view on seven oh two. The point remains that there are 529 00:36:44,679 --> 00:36:47,280 going to be a lot of people who are under a lot of pressure and 530 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,280 who are exerting a lot of pressure in the days ahead. Actually, if 531 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,000 they do have one last question, just because you follow this so closely, 532 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:58,039 one thing I've heard is that there might not be enough time in this insanely 533 00:36:58,119 --> 00:37:01,920 crowded congressional schedule from now the end of the year to devote a lot of 534 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,760 attention to seven oh two. It might be something that just sort of gets 535 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,840 put on the back burner and dealt with very quickly at the end of the 536 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:13,960 day in order to just deal with it and get those surveillance powers and keep 537 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:19,199 them rolling in any serious reform may there just may not be time to do 538 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,400 it. What do you make of that? Do you think that's true? 539 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,599 I think it sounds like you're hopeful that there actually is an opening for substance 540 00:37:24,639 --> 00:37:29,079 of reform here, and there's a real possibility. Is there also a possibility 541 00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:31,880 from what you've seen in Congress that it just it gets punted because the schedule 542 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,159 is so crowded. Oh yeah, I think that that certainly is fair. 543 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:37,360 I mean, you can't help but look at the schedule, know that there's 544 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,599 a lot going on. Obviously in the House are trying to go and deal 545 00:37:39,639 --> 00:37:44,000 with their appropriations bills. We have a shutdown that's looming here and then not 546 00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:45,800 to discend future that they have to go and get pass first. Right, 547 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,440 So there's obviously a lot going on in the calendar and not a lot of 548 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,920 time. But again, I think that it would be very unfortunate if we 549 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,840 were to be in a situation where we did some kind of short form reauthorization. 550 00:37:59,079 --> 00:38:01,480 You know, again, that's a missed opportunity. I think, again, 551 00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:05,679 you've had all year to talk about this, you know, to that 552 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,960 end where we can be helpful that don't have those conversations to go and explain 553 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,800 where these things kind of go and play out. You know, we're certainly 554 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,239 happy to go and do that, but again, there is certainly time on 555 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,280 the calendar. I won't pretend that there's not other competing interests. There are, 556 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,199 for sure, but I mean national security is pretty up there as far 557 00:38:23,199 --> 00:38:27,159 as I'm concerned when it comes to where your priorities might want to be. 558 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,360 So I do think that at the end of the day they will go and 559 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:31,960 try to tackle this before Congress is out at the end of the year. 560 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:37,519 There's I feel pretty pretty strongly about that. It's just a matters to what 561 00:38:37,519 --> 00:38:39,599 what that looks like, and that's a little bit too soon to tell right 562 00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:44,239 now, so a lot to see how things shake out over the coming weeks. 563 00:38:45,199 --> 00:38:49,280 Well. James Tronowski is with Americans for Prosperities, also a senior contributor 564 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,800 over at Young Voices, and we are very grateful, James, to you 565 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,519 for taking the time to talk through this issue on Federalist Radio Hour today. 566 00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,159 Thanks for having me. Well, you've been listening to another edition of the 567 00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:02,840 Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Jaschinsky, culture editor here at The Federalist. 568 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,360 We'll be back soon with more. Until then, be lovers of freedom and 569 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:07,639 anxious for the frying