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It is refreshing to hear such optimism. I think people need. I think

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people need a positive mindset. I
think it's self fulfilling prophecy to a large

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degree. You know, if you're
pessimistic, and we can talk about how

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the news media just decimates our minds
constantly. Yeah, the news is so

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negative. I mean it makes me
sad to read the news. Frankly.

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I well, let me ask you
a question. I don't watch I don't

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watch network news, and I don't
read any newspapers. They couldn't pay me

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enough money. Yeah to do that. I'll accidentally read the news and I'll

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just be sad. It's insane.
Well, I mean, as you know

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that the news, the daily news
really really attempts to answer the question,

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what is the worst thing that happened
on Earth today? It is? And

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let me let me show it to
you every five minutes in your living room,

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over and over and over again.
Yeah. And it's a big world.

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There's eight billion people on Earth,
so you know, somewhere something horrible

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is happening every single day. There's
also great things happening every single day.

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And you know what I call CNN, the Crisis News Network, or the

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constantly negative news network. And the
problem is that if they've got to scare

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you otherwise, you know, if
they say, hey, it's been a

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pretty good day. Overall, we're
you know, violence is an all time

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low. We've got more access to
food, I nergy, water, healthcare,

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education on the plant than ever before. I mean, people would just

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start watching horror movies. I think
it's dead. Yeah. Yeah. The

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challenge is it's it's our neural nets, the wiring of our brains, you

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know, evolved in a world of
constant danger, and so we're sort of

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just wired for fear and scarcity constantly. Yeah. Well, yeah, I

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think you've made this point. Maybe
others have, but it sort of makes

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sense as an evolutionary asymmetry that we
would respond more to danger than to reward

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in that like the consequences of danger
could be fatal. Like it could be

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like, well, if you go
over there, there's a lion that's going

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to eat you, or some neighboring
tribe that's going to kill you, and

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it's game over. Your genes are
out of the gene pool. Yeah,

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you're out. Whereas say, like, uh, news that there's there's a

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there's a nice bush with berries over
there is it's nice to have. It's

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it's optional, but it's there.
In one case, you die, innother

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case you're you're hungry, but death
is worse than hunger. So so that's

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why it's basically we're any anyone who
did not respond more to negative news than

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positive news didn't make it. They
were selected, they were selected against for

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sure. That's yes. I mean, anyone who was complacent about where the

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lion was even by the line.
And and you know, the reality is,

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you know, the news media has
one job to deliver your eyeballs to

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their advertisers. And when we pay
ten times more attention to negative news and

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positive news, that's all we get
twenty four to seven. So I mean,

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listen, it's yeah, it is. I mean I do get my

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my news invariably you know, on
my on my feed on X but I

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also get all the great things happening
in the world because I can selectively choose

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to watch that. But when you're
watching TV or you know, in the

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newspaper, some editor someplace or some
producers deciding what gets fed into your mind,

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and it can really screw with your
mindset. Yes, exactly. So

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I mean, this this space is
called it the coming Age of Abundance.

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And you know, you were really
when my first book came out, Abundance

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the Future is better than you think. You were super supportive and and I

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appreciate that was twelve years ago,
and I think the story whoawelve amazing.

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Yeah, and it's gotten so much
better. So I it is in so

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many ways, not every way,
I mean, I mean, do we

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go back aways. I remember where
we were at a data's party in Brazils.

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Yeah, how long ago? I
know he was it was his fortieth

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or was it his thirtieth? It
was it was thirtyeth like, wow,

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when it was just when Yeah,
it was just when I was forming space

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Yeah, it was it was two
thousand and three there, but it was

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just before the Xprize was one.
Right, I was trying to convince you

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not to build rockets twenty one years
ago, like like you could have a

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kid that has legal or legally of
kids. Yeah, yeah, so tw

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twenty one years ago. Yeah.
So, and you know, I think

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things things are mostly better. You
know. I want to give everybody listening

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a dose of hope and optimism on
the abundance side, because the world has

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gotten better in so many ways.
All you hear about is the negative constantly,

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and I think that's going back to
our sort of core dystopian mindsets from

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you know, evolving one hundred thousand
years ago. But if we just look

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at some of the look at some
of the areas, right, so like

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global extreme poverty, right, I
mean, what's more, what's what's a

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more important metric? You know,
here are the numbers. Ninety percent of

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the world was in global extreme poverty
in eighteen hundreds. In nineteen eighty one,

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it was forty two percent. Today
it's under ten percent of the world.

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Right, Well, yeah, hunger. Hunger is actually rare, and

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it used to be common exactly.
And another one is, obviously one hair

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that you're leading the charge on is
energy. You know, we used to

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kill whales to get whale oil to
light our nights, and we ravaged mountain

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sides and we drilled kilometers into the
ground. Uh. And what's the figures

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like eight thousand times more energy hits
the surface the sun. Is there a

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surface of the Earth from the Sun
than we consume as a species. I

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mean, what's the rate at which
batteries and solar is increasing? It's it

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must be massive, yes, I
mean, I mean tell them we've we've

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made a couple of presentations, what
one sort of simplistic and then one in

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extreme detail on how to make Earth
completely self sustaining from an energy standpoint,

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and demonstrating that there that there is
no that if you break down all of

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the raw materials for latium ion battery
and for solar, you can easily make

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Earth. Uh, I mean,
there's no shortage materials. It's easy.

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It's a lot of work, obviously, but but there's not like some critical

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material that we don't have enough of
in order to make Oh, it's fully

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self sustaining. Even if the only
way that you powered all of industry on

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Earth and all power including heating and
transport electrically, you could do that with

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solar and left mine batteries and and
not come anywhere close to depleting the resources

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of Earth. Yeah. My favorite, My favorite example there was back in

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the eighteen hundreds, the most precious
metal on the planet was aluminum. It

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was more precious in gold and platinum. And even though the Earth's crust is

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you know, eight percent box site, you know, basically aluminum, it

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was just so energetically difficult it wasn't
that it was scarce, it just wasn't

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a usable form yet. And that's
what technology does. It takes something which

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is scared and not usable and makes
it usable. Right So yeah, yeah,

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except alumino oxide is extremely common and
but but it is it is a

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low energy state. In fact,
thermite thermite. Thermite is just iron oxide

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rust and and and pure aluminum and
the the energy difference between iron oxide and

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aluminum oxide is so great that it
generates an incredible and enough heat to melt

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through steel. So that's what thermite
is. So yeah, you do need

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a lot of energy to turn aluminum
oxide into aluminum. But but but yeah,

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it in World War Two there was
a massive scarcity of aluminum aircraft and

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uh that In fact, in Britain, the Mosquito, uh sort of fiber

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bomber was made of mostly of wood, but it was it was done with

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it was basically an early form of
composites, but using stuff wood on the

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outside and lightwood and like balsa as
a sandwich structure. It's pretty clever.

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And now the whole thing was intended
to address the shortage of and that and

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then then we get technology, we
get better, better mechanisms of extracting the

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aluminum from the from the lunaroxide from
the box side, and this happens over

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and over again. In fact,
that's just what we do. I mean,

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I think the number was last year
in twenty twenty three or maybe in

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twenty two, we had more elect
new electricity production from solar than from any

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other form. And and you've done
an extraordinary job on battery production. Yeah,

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and the backery production is growing actually
almost well at several times the rate

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of vehicle production. So you know
it's a this is almost ten x the

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rate of vehicle production. So so
yes, there's a massive amount for batteries.

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And you know, as the world
uses more electricity, uh, there's

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actually a lot more capability that the
grid has if you can buffer the energy,

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uh than without it, because the
vast majority of electric electrical grid it's

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wasted. Assume no, they assume
no buffer. So they have to size

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the power plants for for peak output
peak power output, which is typically a

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hot summer day, and and and
then for at night you can have anywhere

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from half optimistically half power output to
sometimes one tenth of the power output.

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So so basically the grid almost everywhere
the grid is sized for excess electrical power

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output, and if you just buffer
it with batteries, you can increase the

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output of the grid by you know, two or three times. I mean

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to make to make the point here
on the abundance theme, there is no

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limitation energy. Right. We are
increasing the amount of energy per capita.

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And there's a direct correlation between the
GDP of a nation and its energy production,

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right, and the direct correlation between
health and education and energy. Everything

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scales as you increase the energy per
capita of a nation. Yeah. Yeah,

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it's about another category communications, another
area that you're revolutionizing. I think

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the number right now, I just
was checking it earlier. It's like six

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point nine billion smartphone users in twenty
twenty three, eighty six percent. And

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that's what I got when I when
I googled it. No, no,

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what it's six point nine Yeah,
it's sixty eight million others go there that

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My my twelve year olds would say
the same. It's like eighty five eighty

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five percent of the planet's got a
smartphone. And and well, I mean

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if you if you add up the
total number of smartphones may ever made,

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it exceeds Yeah. Oh, I
think so it's a it's amazing. So

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we've gone from like zero telephony to
the majority, vast majority of the planet

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in under a century. You know, global internet is well the same thing.

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And did I your your next iteration
of starlink spacecraft have gone up the

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director cell phone? Okay, yes, that just went up. So you

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know, we still have to prove
that it works in a little bit.

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We we're confident that even if he
if these early satellites don't work, were

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competent from a physics standpoint, that
it can work. It's it is a

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challenge because we have to emulate a
cells cell tower on the ground in order

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for the phones to accept the signal. So we have to do double compensation

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for example, and and and and
do some sort of because because you've got

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a speed of light limitations. Tell, if we were easy, you would

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have been done already. Yeah,
speed of light limit stations. You know

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this this like life is so fast
and yet so slow, And you know,

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I think, yeah, A good
way to think about light, at

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least in the space context. Uh, for the Lowes context is it travels

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about three hundred kilometers every mileisecond in
error or in in space. And then

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and then around just over two hundred
kilometers for mo second in fiber. You

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know, another abundance area is health. I hear some some kids in the

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background there, so interestingly enough,
you know, child mortality, I mean

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probably, I mean this is one
that hits me the most in terms of

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increasing abundance. Child mortality under the
age of five was forty two percent a

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couple hundred years ago. It was
a coin flip of whether your kids survived,

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and it's decreased now to under five
percent, and it's gone down by

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fifty percent in the last thirty years. So just childhood mortality and women dying

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in childbirth, all of these things
people don't think about when they're listening to

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all in use in all the issues, and then life expectancy, my favorite

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subject, has gone up from you
know, thirty years old to seventy five

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plus. I still disagree with you
on longevity though, that that we should

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solve it or not that like we
should you think we should? Well,

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I listen, I'm not necessarily saying
live forever, but I'd like to make

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it to one hundred and twenty one
hundred and fifty. Yeah, I sort

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of wonder if we should not solve
the toon your presidential elections first, and

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do you really want them to get
that life expectancy you first? And do

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you really want them to get that
life expectancy first? Well? Uh,

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you know, you know, I
I think we uh, I think being

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able to have the vitality, the
cognition, the physical prowess, uh,

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you know that you have when you're
in your forties or fifties through the trip

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one hundred, that's my goal.
I mean, you don't want to,

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you don't want to, you know, you want to make it to at

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least one hundred dollion. Well,
I guess it does depend on whether I'm

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you know, have dementia. I
don't think I'd want to be a Boudon

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on society or have dementia not know
what's going on. I prefer to be

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dead. Well, yeah, I
think that's that's for sure. But let's

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assume that you had, you know, all the cognitive power you have today

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in your physical strength. Is there
any reason why you wouldn't want to,

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you know, have an extended lifespan
or health span. Yeah, sure,

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I guess I think we are.
End up, there's such a strong forceing

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function for life extension or health span
extension that I think we will see uh

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it masters in that area, whether
I want them to be there or not.

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And actually my opinion on the subject
is that it's I think it's actually

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not that hard to solve because the
if you just consider argumentsive symmetry that are

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quite quite helpful, the the cells
O body all age agent basically almost exactly

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the same speed. Like what like, I've not seen anyone who has an

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old left arm and a young right
arm. I've never seen that, not

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even once. Yes, so,
how how are the cells communicating and how

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what is keeping them? What is
synchronizing their behavior something? There's there's a

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very clear mechanism for synchronizing aging among
the thirty to forty trillion cells in your

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body, Like depending on your body
mass, you're typically going to have thirty

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to forty trillion. That's that's correct, you know, yeah, I mean

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keep you know, in sync.
I mean the other the other the other

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reference proof point is you know,
bowhead whales from the largest mammals can make

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it to two hundred years repeatedly.
Greenland sharks can make it to five hundred

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years and have babies at two hundred
years old. I remember when I was

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in medical school hearing that, I
said, you know, why can they

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why can't we said, it's either
an engineering problem or software problem. Hardware

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problem or software problem. And I
think, I think this is one of

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the biggest areas AI is going to
give us is a real understanding. And

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then to your other point about your
left arm and right arm. You know,

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when you have a baby, women's
thirty thirty five, you're forty forty

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five, your baby starts out at
zero. Yeah. I do find it

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remarkable that we decompressed from a single
cell to an adult human and then and

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then we you know, to appro
create compressed back down to a single cell.

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This fascinating, you know what I
mean. Look, you sort of

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look look at yourself as this sort
of you know blast as system, say

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like I haven't changed a bit.
Here we go again, let's recycle.

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It's like the Big Bang. It's
like rand the Big crunch. You know,

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one of the things people argue about
on extended health span. Uh and

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you know, increasing the population getting
to one hundred, one hundred and twenty

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one hundred and fifty and there's a
constant co longevity escape philosity, right that

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there's going to be a point at
which for every year you're alive, science

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is extending your life for more than
a year. And that's an interesting idea

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to think about, in which case, you know, accidents become really a

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thing to be concerned about. They
concerned about overpopulation and you've you've hit this

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multiple times, right, and I
saw you tweeting about it or sorry you're

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xing about it today. Sorry,
but it's you know, overpopulation sho is

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one of the biggest myths and biggest
population. Yeah, you know, and

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and you know it's it's such nonsense. The Earth is underpopulated, not overpopulated.

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We can look out the window when
you're flying across the country, it's

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empty, absolutely exactly. It's like
if you said, like if your goal

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was food, like flying from Elliott
in New York to drop a bowling ball

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on a human, you would fail. So you know, I think one

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of one of my goals. I
think the greatest gifts we can give people

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in this abundance world is increased health
span. I mean, when you think

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about what people want, they want
happiness and they want health. Right,

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no one wants to die in a
painful cancer or or dementia, So yeah,

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and you know I have extended to
you many times, my friend,

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come down to Fountain Health. Let
me put you through our program. The

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world needs you around for another thirty
thirty years. Okay, well, well

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what do you have any what should
I do? Let's say, well,

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I mean, so there're two what
access can be taken? They're two quiements

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could be helpful. There are two
on the discussion. Yeah, so there

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are two. There are three things
you need to know. Number one,

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is there anything going on inside your
body that you don't know about? So

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the body is amazingly good at hiding
disease. So we found in our seemingly

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healthy adults two percent have a cancer
they don't know about two and a half

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percent two and a half percent of
an aneurysm. Fourteen point four percent either

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have metabolic disease, coronary disease,
neurogenerative disease, and and so your body

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is incredibly good at hiding disease.
Right, so you don't actually feel any

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cancer until stage three or stage four. Seventy percent of all heart attacks have

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no precedents. Your body is compensating
constantly, and you know, for most

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of us, we know more about
what's going inside our cars or airplanes than

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we do our bodies. Yea,
I have a question for you. How

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many how many sensors are going up
on starship when you're launching? How many

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start sensors are going are on board
that vehicle? Rough order magnitude getting back

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data? Well, I guess this. When you count everything up, there's

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several thousand sensors. And if I
were, I mean they're are thirty three

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engines, so they count for the
bulk of sure, but you also have

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stress sensors and looking what's going on
in the structures and ibionics and communications across

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all the subsystems. And if I
ask you, how may nine engines including

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the up stages. So so yeah, there's several thousand sensors and way more

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answers than Yeah, I was gonna
say if you, if I asked you,

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how many sensors do you have in
your body? And so we don't

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look, which is insane because we
do have the technology now and look to

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determine is there anything going on I
need to know about and when's a good

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time to find out about like now? Or what's likely to break, what's

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likely to undergo failure cycles? And
then what's the most extraordinary therapeutics available to

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extend the human life span. So
I mean for me, that's that's uh,

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that's a that's a big one.
Let me ask you another another abundance

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theme, which is education. Do
you think any of our schools today,

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middle schools or high schools are preparing
any of our kids for the future.

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Well, none that I know of. They might, I mean they might

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be. Probably are a few schools
that are doing it, but probably ninety

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nine percent of schools or not.
Yeah. Uh, schools are rice loads

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floated change. And I think that
they're there there. There is these things

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you move away from teaching the fundamentals
you know of writing well and math and

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history. You know, I'm concerned
about the whole world agenda and ideology permeating

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through education, agreed, and actually
being destructive to education. Agreed. I

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mean, you know, how do
you think do you have these thoughts?

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I mean, so at the end
of the day, I think our best,

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our best healthcare, and our best
teachers are going to be ais right

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that understand everything, and they demonetize
and they democratize every aspect. I mean,

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the AI knows your your kid's favorite
color, sports star, movie star,

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what they know, the languages,
they know, what they did today.

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I mean, it's a way of
giving every child on the planet the

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best educator. I mean, you
you funded back years ago. If you

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remember the Global Learning Xprize that we
did. We did that. We demoed

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in times in THEA with ais on
tablets. It was the earliest days of

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ai. Emi Mustock, you know, was one of the winners of that

293
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competition who went on out to create
stability, I mean, the challenges.

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I don't think the educational systems are
going to give up that control anytime soon.

295
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Sure well, I mean if I
look at how my kids are educated,

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they seem to be mostly educated by
YouTube and redded and x as well.

297
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I know, but they're constantly on
the internet. That seems to be

298
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and I guess a lot of kids
these days TikTok unfortunately. Yeah. So

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I think the education situation is problematic. That's what to do about it.

300
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I think I think ultimately, you
know, kin Academy is one step in

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the right direction, but I think
part of it is getting our educational institutions

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to first realize they're not preparing kids
for the world that's coming. I mean,

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this hits another point. We are
such linear thinkers, right, we're

304
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projecting what we have and putting it
out four or five years. I don't

305
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think people let me ask you,
do you think people are ready for what

306
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the world's going to be like in
twenty thirty. No, I don't know

307
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what the world's going to be like
in twenty thirty, so probably I wouldn't

308
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say that. I'm yeah, we
definitely live in the most interesting time.

309
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You know. It's like it's legedly
this Chinese thing that may live in interesting

310
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times is a not a good thing. But I mean, I think personally

311
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I would like to live in the
most interesting of times, and this is

312
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the most interesting of times. I
also think it's the best time to be

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alive. Ever, the only time
more exciting than today is I mean,

314
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uh uh, you know by what
measure? Yeah, we have environmental issues,

315
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but I think we have the best
chance of solving those environmental issues with

316
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the technology we have now versus technology
we had ten years ago. Yeah.

317
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Well, I generally think it's as
a as a general sort of rule of

318
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living, it is it is better
to err on the side of being optimistic

319
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and wrong than pessimistic and right.
If you're gonna make if you're gonna err

320
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one side or the other. But
it's just a higher quality of life to

321
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ear on the side of being optimistic
and risk being wrong than than pessimistic.

322
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You know, and you know and
right, I mean, it's it's better

323
00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:11.279
to be You'll just have a just
enjoy life. Yeah, what a optim

324
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:17.079
optimism is is gonna make you happy. There was a study of fourteen thousand

325
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people. It was fourteen thousand women
and fifteen hundred guys, and it showed

326
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that those with an optimistic mindset lived
fourteen to fifteen percent longer than those were

327
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:34.559
the pessimistic mindset. I mean,
mindset's a powerful thing and I think undervalued

328
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by almost everybody. One of my
one of my favorite examples of this was,

329
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do you know what the environmental disaster
of the eighteen eighties and eighteen nineties

330
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was. I'm sure you know.
Is this back to whales? No?

331
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No, no, no, it's
it's another form of life. It's the

332
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horseman or disaster, the horseship.
Yes, yeah, what what is well?

333
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:08.440
Yeah, no, no, you're
right. I mean New York what

334
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was basically a horse manure and and
and you're in uh and and carcass it

335
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was. It was terrible. People
brought their motive power. I mean,

336
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:25.799
like if you think if you think, I think New York Subways is thinking

337
00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:33.119
right now, wait, I mean
try it everywhere. You know, people

338
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every people, people moved from people
moved into downtown New York, Detroit,

339
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:41.960
Chicago. They brought their motive power
with them. And and the articles in

340
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.559
the eighteen eighties and nineties and into
the nineteen hundreds, as you as you

341
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:52.119
read this, the projection was disaster. It was going to be disaster because

342
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:57.000
horse horse maneuver was like grow.
They had like special parking lots for horseship

343
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at the corner Very Street. Well, it seems like there's also a challenge

344
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because I think a horse lives,
you know, for on the order of

345
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fifteen years. That means one fifteenth
of all horses are kicking the bucket every

346
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:22.279
year. You just got. And
so so if you've got like three hundred

347
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:25.839
thousand horses, it means you've got
twenty thousand horses dropping dead every year.

348
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:32.319
And then you need a horse to
move the horse or or just cover it

349
00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:37.519
with horsemen or letter decompose. Yeah, I mean it's gonna be like decomposing

350
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:42.079
horse caucuses throughout ratri cities. But
then and then and then like it's like,

351
00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:45.799
well, who's horn, who's dead
horse? Business people are probably taking

352
00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:52.480
to claim a lot, but they're
not rushing to claim it. But then,

353
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:59.839
but then innovation came along and here
comes the car and solves the problem.

354
00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:03.519
And I think that's the problem that
we keep on forgetting. We we

355
00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:08.519
forget that we are incredibly innovative at
solving problems. That's what humans are amazing

356
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:18.240
at. Yeah, yeah, true, true. Actually, on the whale

357
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:22.960
front, I don't know. Back
to the whales, it's a whale of

358
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:29.839
a tail, whale tails. Okay. The so a lot of people think

359
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:37.480
that the low point on whale population
was was in the eighteen hundreds, because

360
00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:44.160
you know, whales were being hunted
for for whales whale we yeah, but

361
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:52.160
actually the low point by far was
in fact in the mid twentieth century because

362
00:31:55.359 --> 00:32:04.839
of a bureaucratic in the Soviet Union. Okay that I have the year they

363
00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:08.079
can so that they would always have
these five year plans and quotas for for

364
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:14.319
howp for whale tonnage. Now didn't
they didn't actually have even a whether the

365
00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:19.759
whale tonnage was usable tonnage in any
way, they just had a quota for

366
00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:22.319
whale tonnage, and what they were
doing in servi units, they would just

367
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:29.039
keep increasing the quota of everything every
year, every five years. So that's

368
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:35.680
the whale tonnage just got a higher
and higher and hire and if if you,

369
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:37.559
if you're a captain, and you
and you and you had a high

370
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:42.079
wald tonnage, you'd get a medal
and a raise. And if your whale

371
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:44.759
tonnage was low, you'd be sent
to do you get you get what you

372
00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:50.119
incentivized, babe? Yes? And
does matter? And and so it got

373
00:32:50.119 --> 00:32:54.839
to to it just got to absurd
levels, and you had Soviet whaling ships

374
00:32:55.720 --> 00:33:01.160
like going into h you know US
and Australian wars to desperately trying to find

375
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:06.680
whales, and then they were they
were catched the whale, weigh the whale

376
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:10.519
and then dump the cause. Go
ahead. I mean, there's there's a

377
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:15.599
there's a whole internet rabbit hole that
you can go out on the and which

378
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:21.279
is basically a lesson in the follies
of central planning. So and this is

379
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:25.599
the problem of keeping laws on the
books way way after they're useful to society.

380
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:34.599
Well, We do actually have a
fundamental issue with the accumulation of laws

381
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:39.039
and regulations because they are immortal and
humans are mortal, as we were just

382
00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:45.319
discussing, you know, life extension, so so naturally, every year you're

383
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:52.400
going to have this accumulation of laws
and regulations until eventually everything is illegal.

384
00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:55.559
I mean, I mean everything is
illegal, every everything. Everything is illegal.

385
00:33:55.640 --> 00:34:00.039
Yes, nothing, nothing is allowed
because you're overlapping laws regulations in some

386
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:06.759
of which are in fact contradict each
other. That whether you go left or

387
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:16.880
right, they're both left and right, you know, like SpaceX. I

388
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:21.519
mean, shame on, you know, the d o J in this respect,

389
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:24.039
in this particular case where it DJ, as you may know, is

390
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:31.519
suing SpaceX for hiring only a permanent
residence and citizens of the US. The

391
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:37.960
reason that we did this was because
we were told very clearly that if we

392
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:43.800
did not hire permanent residence of the
United States that that would constitute a violation

393
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:49.679
of international trade track Traffic in Arms
regulations. IAR and the entire executive team

394
00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:52.320
of SpaceX and the board would go
to prove sounds like a good motivation,

395
00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:58.519
yes, And so we we're literally
told us by the government in very clear

396
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:02.239
terms, and I mean well aware
of items I am. Yes, it's

397
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:07.480
it's a nightmare, and we would
like to which which by the way,

398
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:15.960
puts us in a non competitive world
against other nations. Yes, it's it's,

399
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:22.639
it's it's it's pretty bad. So
but but then then then the d

400
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:30.840
J, you know, it's issuing
SpaceX for not hiring asylum seekers. An

401
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:36.039
important point here, not asylum,
those who have been granted asylum, those

402
00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:37.360
who are seeking asylum. There's a
lot of those. There's a lot of

403
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:43.079
people seeking asylum. Yes, so
we're damned if we do and damned if

404
00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:50.559
we don't. So if we hire
someone who's not a poet residence, we're

405
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:53.920
breaking the law. And if we
don't hire someone he's not a resident,

406
00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:58.800
we're breaking the law. So this
is, this is an example of the

407
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:04.400
madness that we're facing. But I
want to compliment you on something which and

408
00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:07.760
I've seen I've known you for long
enough to have seen you gone through this

409
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:13.960
where you have bet everything over and
over again. You bet your entire fortune,

410
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:17.800
got into debt to do the things
that you believe in. And I

411
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:22.239
have a question to ask you,
which I've been dying to ask, and

412
00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:28.320
I'm going to start making this this
known. There are so many billionaires on

413
00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:32.199
the planet who have tens of billions
and hundreds of billions of dollars who are

414
00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:39.719
effectively sitting on it and not changing
the world, not putting it in,

415
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:44.320
you know, other than for increasing
its return, which is not a bad

416
00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:47.079
thing. I think the more wealth
and free energy there is out there to

417
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:52.599
do things. But can you speak
to that, I don't know if you're

418
00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:59.960
willing to. But there are a
few people like Mark Benioff and Eric Schmid

419
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:04.679
and your sell yourself top of the
list, who invest on making the world

420
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:14.800
a better place, solving global grand
challenges. Thoughts on that open. Sorry,

421
00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:19.159
I just have some some kids and
stuff around problem, sort of family

422
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:35.119
noises in the background, so let's
see. Yeah, well yeah, I

423
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:39.199
mean I do think that, uh
it's smart. People with resources should care

424
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:45.719
about the good of civilization, the
future of civilization, even if there is

425
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:52.679
not even if they're not particularly altruistic, because you can't really cannot you cannot

426
00:37:52.679 --> 00:38:01.519
exist absent civilization. If civilization collapses, it's all over. You know.

427
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:10.079
There's like people have got like these
sort of bunker other countries or why or

428
00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:15.400
whatever. I'm like Listen, do
you really think that you're gonna make it

429
00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:22.599
in in an apocalyptic situation like they'll
they'll they'll come and find you in that

430
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:28.400
bunker and they probably will pry you
out and get your stuff, and and

431
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:32.679
and and it's it's gonna suck anyway. So really, uh, small feel

432
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:37.159
with resources, any small personal resources. They just have some long term perspective.

433
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:39.320
I mean, listen, it's you, it's you, and it's you

434
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:44.880
and and Jeff Bezos right now,
Who've got the biggest long term perspective.

435
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:51.119
And I see I uh, you
know, Uh, I'm just curious about

436
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:59.039
how do you incentivize other people to
really help the world accelerate, uh,

437
00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:05.360
you know, and and make the
world a more productive place. Right.

438
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:07.239
The best way to become a billionaire's
help a billion people, the world's biggest

439
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:16.199
problems, the world's biggest business opportunities. Uh do you believe that? Well?

440
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:21.360
I guess maybe it's just talk to
people more. I guess, see,

441
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:27.119
just towing to them. And you
know, I think it's perhaps just

442
00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:37.400
raising conscious awareness the fact that there
is no living without civilization. One you

443
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:40.440
like, one doesn't actually have to
make an ultimistic augment. You can actually,

444
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:46.239
you know, make a even if
it's purely self seeking argument like,

445
00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:52.199
but life would be miserable without civilization. And if you want to know what

446
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:54.719
life is like without civilization, just
go try living in the forest naked for

447
00:39:54.719 --> 00:40:01.119
a day and you will be naked
and afraid and quickly realized civilization is awesome.

448
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:12.960
I just eat bugged and get eating
by bugged. And it's we're so

449
00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:19.280
independent upon each other to enable the
state of technology and capability we have today.

450
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:27.400
You know, I'm curious, is
there anything that you think that isn't

451
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:31.800
becoming more abundant out there, or
anything that we have an abundance constraint on

452
00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:36.400
you? I'll just mention, well, answer that first. I don't want

453
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:38.559
to come and talk about the carbon
removal experisee that you funded. One second.

454
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:47.039
You know we're we're creating abundance of
food, energy, water, healthcare,

455
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:53.400
education. Are you constrained in any
way? No? Not really,

456
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:59.800
No, I mean no, I
think I agree with you that the future

457
00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:08.400
most likely has abundant We shouldn't be
complacent about the future. Complacency and entitlement

458
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:15.280
are not arrested for success, but
most likely outcome is one of abundance of

459
00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:22.119
business services. That is something where
we're headed. Uh yeah, when I

460
00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:25.320
when I saw you last, that's
mighty likely where we're headed, very likely.

461
00:41:25.599 --> 00:41:28.400
When I when I saw you last, you said, you know,

462
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:32.800
definitely abundance after a g I and
I saw you know when you were talking

463
00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:37.960
about optimists, which is awesome by
the way, let's just start with that.

464
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:44.320
Congratulations. Well thanks optimist. I
need to make sure the optimist is

465
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:51.360
it is it doesn't add to civilizational
risk, you know, because you don't

466
00:41:51.360 --> 00:42:00.880
want like a billion of these things
or with centralized control unless unless has anyone

467
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:09.800
made a movie, unless they obey
you. Well, I don't think there

468
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:16.599
could obey any anyone. Yeah,
Like I think you have to have local

469
00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:25.199
control, but it has to be
decentralized because any central control it's going to

470
00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:30.960
be problematic because you just can't be
like it could be the a rogue AI

471
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:35.239
takes I mean listen, literally a
movie, a rogue you know, terminator

472
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:43.679
H takes over somehow gains control of
the mothership of that controls all the you

473
00:42:43.719 --> 00:42:50.840
know, the Optimus robots or something
like that. That is uh, basically

474
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:54.519
it needs to be it needs to
be impossible for that to occur. Let

475
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:59.159
me ask you. I always love
combining your companies because it's like you know,

476
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:04.719
you know, it's like uh a
Reese's peanut butter Cup, you know,

477
00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:10.039
starlink and and and uh and uh
and Starship together. How about Optimists

478
00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:22.239
neuralink? When can I plug into
an Optimist with my neuralink connection? Well,

479
00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:28.000
hopefully the first neural links will the
first link, and a human will

480
00:43:28.599 --> 00:43:35.280
hopefully be soon within the next maybe
this month or next. Now this is

481
00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:40.960
really just at first, it's just
trying to give your quadriplegic, partaplegics and

482
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:49.119
tetraplegics the ability to control their phone
and computer. It's it's basically like the

483
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:59.360
first the first product is te telepathy
essentially or telekinesis and uh. And then

484
00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:06.880
the second product uh so tentatively cooled
blind sight where we can restore site even

485
00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:13.199
if somebody is has lost both eyes
and their optic notes. Amazing, go

486
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:19.280
straight to the visual detect Yeah,
yeah, exactly. Now these things will

487
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:23.239
already work in monkeys, and I'd
just like to reempasize no, no monkey

488
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:29.440
as has ever died because of a
neural link, and we treat these extremely

489
00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:31.239
well. Last time, I last
time I spoke to you about this.

490
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:36.800
You were playing, You were playing
Pong against Pager. I think that's right.

491
00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:43.199
Actually, it turns out monkeys love
playing the beer. They're they're really

492
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:47.920
just like us. I mean they
they they love eating, eating snacks and

493
00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:52.280
playing video I tell my twelve year
old boys about that. Yeah, I

494
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:59.239
mean, you see the video of
Pager playing you know, my monkey mind

495
00:44:59.239 --> 00:45:04.639
pong, you know, just a
telepathic paying punk telepathically. He's not restrained

496
00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:08.320
in any way. He's just sitting
on the sort of tree brand drinking smoothies

497
00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:14.760
and drinking smoothies, drinking smoothie and
playing pong. Yeah, he's not held

498
00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:17.719
down, you know. In fact, he gets upset when we take a

499
00:45:17.800 --> 00:45:24.519
video game away, just like human, just like our kids. It's awesome.

500
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:29.159
And the stuff I mean, giving
sight to the blind, I mean,

501
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:31.639
it's biblical stuff. And this is
again coming back to the original,

502
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:37.320
you know, kicking off the new
year with a positive mindset, with an

503
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:42.880
abundance mindset, with an exponential mindset, with a moonshot mindset, right which

504
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:45.400
I think, and I think I
hope you agree that. I think for

505
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:50.159
entrepreneurs and people listening, like the
single most important thing we have is our

506
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:52.559
mindset how we see the world.
I mean, would you agree with that?

507
00:45:54.800 --> 00:46:00.559
Yeah, yeah, I mean you
could choose to be I mean,

508
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:07.360
happiness is I think is a decision. I mean it's likely. I mean

509
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:13.199
there's other obviously, people that have
chemical embalansis. But for most people,

510
00:46:14.199 --> 00:46:19.599
the difference between being happy and unhappy
is deciding to be happy. Amazing and

511
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:24.280
I want to take a second for
everybody listening to point something out. You

512
00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:30.039
know, Elando was twenty twenty one. I was texting with you and I

513
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:35.639
said you should fund another exprize.
You funded an exprize years ago on teaching

514
00:46:35.719 --> 00:46:38.440
kids in the middle of Tanzania,
reading, writing, and arithmetic without any

515
00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:42.960
adults, no schools around, just
on a tablet. They were handed and

516
00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:45.400
the software had to teach them and
it was an amazing success. And then

517
00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:51.679
in twenty one I asked you if
you do an ex prize on carbon removal

518
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:58.840
and you said yes almost instantly,
and we launched it three months later.

519
00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:02.760
It was like the fast yes to
an X Prize launch ever, So thank

520
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:05.519
you for that. I want to
give you a quick update on it if

521
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:09.679
I could. You're welcome to absolutely
well. I hope the education X prize

522
00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:15.599
and the Cotton Remove X Prize or
resultant. I'm sure we had six thousand

523
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:22.239
teams enter the Carbon Removal Prize.
We have thirteen hundred active teams in the

524
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:30.280
competition right now as we down select
about thirty six percent four hundred and sixty

525
00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:37.760
are focused on carbon air capture,
four hundred and thirty are land related capture,

526
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:44.000
two hundred and forty or ocean related
capture. And the we've given away

527
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:47.039
twenty million of your money already,
five million to students and fifteen million to

528
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:52.639
a million to the top fifteen teams. And the finals are coming up in

529
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:58.440
two years in the Earth Day of
twenty twenty five. And interestingly enough,

530
00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:02.639
you know, the winning team needs
to demonst right uh mega ton level capture

531
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:07.719
that can scale to gigoton level capture. And so just the final competition is

532
00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:14.400
going to capture for megatons of carbon, which is twice what's being done on

533
00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:20.679
an annual basis today. So good
progress, so far. Great. That's

534
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:25.039
that's good here. Well, as
we as we uh, as we begin

535
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:30.000
to wrap up, what other thoughts
for people on abundance, what other mindset

536
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:43.920
thoughts do you have for folks?
Here is hmm. Well, I do

537
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:49.599
think that the birth rate is too
low for human as I'm always going on

538
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:54.320
about that. That's the longevity,
baby, I'm solving it with longevity,

539
00:48:54.360 --> 00:49:00.800
going to keep people alive longer.
Okay, well and robot and ai,

540
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:09.239
sure, but I mean it's just
the current situation is is grammats grammat Yeah?

541
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:14.360
Yeah, yeah, I mean a
lot of countries are you know,

542
00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:19.639
if you say Korea, Italy,
yeah, yeah, they're losing roughly half

543
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:24.639
their population per generation. Yeah,
that means three generations, they're one tenth

544
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:32.480
of their current size, and with
the one tenth that remains being very old.

545
00:49:32.679 --> 00:49:37.679
Yeah. The numbers for folks that
replacement numbers two point one children for

546
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:45.079
family on average, and Europe is
at one point five. Asia dropped from

547
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:51.159
five point seven in the nineteen fifties
to one point nine today, which is

548
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:57.079
crazy. North America dropped from about
three to one point six, were below

549
00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:01.079
the replacement level of the United States. And it's it is an issue.

550
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:08.199
I mean, we need smart people
on the planet. Yeah. Well,

551
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:14.760
I mean if we don't make new
humans, we won't have humanity. And

552
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:19.559
even with longevity, we'll live longer, but we're not lived forever. So

553
00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:23.679
I think we just need it's you
know, I'm concerned that, like a

554
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:28.159
lot of people think that the panel
planet is overpopulated, and that's one of

555
00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:31.320
the things contributing to a low birth
rate. In fact, some people have

556
00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:38.039
encountered think they're basically being martyrs for
not having kids, and that's just it's

557
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:45.920
just not true. I think we
should take the position that we actually have

558
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:52.960
a civic responsibility to have kids to
at least keep the human population constant.

559
00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:58.480
Ideally we should grow it, but
we should at least not have population collapse,

560
00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:02.480
which is what we currently have.
I think people people fear the future,

561
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:07.119
and I mean the conversations I've heard
is I don't want to bring children

562
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:12.519
into this world. It's too dangerous. AI is going to destroy humanity,

563
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:15.639
the environment, you know, we're
destroyed the environment, and so forth.

564
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:21.679
So I think part of it is
getting people to be optimistic about the future

565
00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:24.719
versus pessimistic, which is one of
as you said in the beginning of this

566
00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:29.119
this space is one of my one
of my missions. If people think the

567
00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:31.039
world is getting better and they have
a hand in making it a better place,

568
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:38.159
you most definitely do. Yeah,
I think people should be optimistic about

569
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:45.639
the future. They can handle far
more humans than currently exist, and the

570
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:53.480
danger is not a population explosion but
population collapse. So I would just encourage

571
00:51:53.800 --> 00:51:59.440
as may feel as possible to have
kids and ideally have a lot of kids,

572
00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:04.320
because they you're going to make up
for those who by a extra bottle

573
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:10.760
of wine tonight, folks. Yeah, it's a big deal. So what

574
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:15.639
do you do you let's let's close
out on a conversation of AI and AGI,

575
00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:19.880
which I know a lot of people
always interested in and and and there's

576
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:27.159
a real fear about AI. What
would you say to dissuade people? I

577
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:32.119
mean, it's you've you've I've heard
you say eighty percent probability we make it

578
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:37.920
through and we need to protect the
downside. Can you speak to that?

579
00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:43.000
What? How? How can people
walk away more optimistic than pessimistic on on

580
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:45.519
this front? And how do you
how do you think about you know,

581
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:52.159
is is it containment? Is it
shaping how we train our AI systems?

582
00:52:52.840 --> 00:53:02.800
How do you think we navigate super
in digital superintelligence? Well, the rate

583
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:12.239
which AI is growing is it really
buggles his mind. So it currently seems

584
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:20.639
as though the amount of compute dedicated
to artificial intelligence is increasing by a factor

585
00:53:20.639 --> 00:53:27.119
of ten roughly every six months.
It's it's faster than annual, that's for

586
00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:34.000
sure. M h. I mean, I've I recently heard today about a

587
00:53:34.039 --> 00:53:45.159
gigawatt class AI is compute cluster that's
I think it's been being built in Kuwait

588
00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:53.440
or something of that effect. And
it's like seven hundred thousand B one hundreds,

589
00:53:53.960 --> 00:54:00.519
which is a couple of generations above
two generations in production. So this

590
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:06.440
is a staggering amount of compute.
And there are many such such things that

591
00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:08.119
that's just the biggest one I've heard
of so far. But there are there's

592
00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:15.440
a five hundred megawatt installation happening,
there's and there's there's there's multiple hundred,

593
00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:21.239
one hundred megawatt installations in the works. That's not including me. What what

594
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:27.159
you do with that much compute?
Because when you when you actually add up

595
00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:32.360
all human data ever created U,
you really just run out of things to

596
00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:38.599
train on quite quickly. Like you
you know, if you've got maybe I

597
00:54:38.599 --> 00:54:42.719
don't know, twenty or thirty thousand, one hundreds, you can train on

598
00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:46.280
synthetic data almost everything. Yeah,
basically you have to have to have synthetic

599
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:52.280
data because perstantly, well under one
hundred thousand, one hundreds, you can

600
00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:58.440
train on all human data ever created, including video. Uh. And it's

601
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:01.880
not and it's not just the compute, which is the major scarce resource,

602
00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:07.599
but it's also the number of entrepreneurs
focusing in this area, the amount of

603
00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:10.760
capital that's going into this area,
the amount of data available. I mean,

604
00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:15.840
it's all increasing, and it's all
feeding on itself. And then so

605
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:19.960
it's just you know, hitting your
point about the speed at which it's progressing

606
00:55:20.119 --> 00:55:25.000
is is I think the word awesome
is comes to mind. Or staggering,

607
00:55:25.360 --> 00:55:31.360
Yeah, it's really staggering and for
sure, so I'm just trying to give

608
00:55:31.360 --> 00:55:37.519
a sense of scale. It's I've
never seen anything move this fast of any

609
00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:44.760
technology. This is the fastest moving
thing. So in terms of aiming for

610
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:51.679
AI safety, my my best guess
of my sort of primitive biological neural is

611
00:55:52.480 --> 00:56:05.199
is that we should aim for maximum
truth seeking and and curiosity. That that's

612
00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:09.639
that's that's my gut field for this
for how to make AIS safe as possible.

613
00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:17.360
If the danger with programming morality and
explicit with an explicit morality program is

614
00:56:17.800 --> 00:56:22.159
what it's sometimes referred to as the
Waligi problem. If you create Luigi,

615
00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:30.360
you automatically create Wallwigi by inverting Luigi. So so I think we have we

616
00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:38.039
have to be careful about programming,
and you know, sort of an arbitrary

617
00:56:38.039 --> 00:56:45.480
morality. But but if we focus
on maximizing truth with acknowledged error, that's

618
00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:51.639
that's probably I think that's the way
to maximize safety and and also to have

619
00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:58.800
the A. I be curious because
I think that you know, Earth is

620
00:56:58.880 --> 00:57:04.239
much more interesting to you an advanced
AI with humans on it than without humans.

621
00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:10.199
But I agree with you. Now
an interesting question of do you think

622
00:57:12.079 --> 00:57:22.400
vast intelligence? With vast intelligence comes
significant empathy and respect for life? Yeah,

623
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:23.920
I think so, because that's the
that's the hope at the end of

624
00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:28.719
the rainbow here that I don't want
to use the word a G. I'll

625
00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:36.760
use a SUPERG digital superintelligence as a
as a term with a digital superintelligence that

626
00:57:37.159 --> 00:57:40.960
is able to be more benevolent and
support us, because sometimes I'm not sure

627
00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:47.960
us squishy meat sacks can make it
through our own, our own horseshit problems

628
00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:57.119
that we put together. So maybe
there's a value there, you know.

629
00:57:57.239 --> 00:58:00.400
I think on the whole AI is
the single most important technology ever invented,

630
00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:05.800
and it is going to uplift all
of humanity. I think it's what you

631
00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:08.760
said, you know, after post
Agi comes abundance. I think it's the

632
00:58:08.800 --> 00:58:13.880
interim issues in the next one to
four years, right, It's it's not

633
00:58:14.800 --> 00:58:21.039
artificial intelligence, it's human stupidity.
Yeah. Well, I mean one way

634
00:58:21.079 --> 00:58:29.360
that AI could go wrong is if
the extinctionist philosophy is programmed into the AI,

635
00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:35.159
whether implicitly or explicitly. I mean, probably not explicitly, but there's

636
00:58:35.159 --> 00:58:38.639
a strong danger of it of an
implicit extinctionist philosophy being programmed into AI.

637
00:58:40.679 --> 00:58:44.400
You know, And what would that
look like? What would that look like?

638
00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:47.559
Well, like, there's this guy
on the front page of New York

639
00:58:47.559 --> 00:58:52.000
Times, think about a year ago. He's said of the extinctionist society,

640
00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:55.559
and he was literally quoted as there
are eight billion people on Earth. It

641
00:58:55.679 --> 00:59:05.079
be better if there were none.
Oh my god. Yeah. So uh

642
00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:09.000
and if you if you take the
extreme environmentalist argument, especially like the implicit

643
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:17.119
extreme environmentalist argument, they they there's
an implicit conclusion that humans are a plague

644
00:59:17.159 --> 00:59:22.719
on the surface of the Earth.
So I think we have to be quite

645
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:31.599
careful about and implicit like like if
the extinctionist movement was somehow programmed into AI

646
00:59:31.719 --> 00:59:37.000
as as the optimization, that would
be obviously extremely dangerous, you know,

647
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:45.840
just say the least. Yeah,
but you know, there's there's that.

648
00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:52.360
There are people, quite a few
people actually who view humanity as as a

649
00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:55.639
blight on the fis of the earth. And we're we are coming down to

650
00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:00.800
There is the you know, accelerationist
movement, the de cl racist movement,

651
01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:05.880
the boomers and the doomers. But
I think people forget to realize or they

652
01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:09.840
don't realize, forget the fact that, you know, we romanticize the past,

653
01:00:10.719 --> 01:00:14.800
and the past life was short,
brutish, and you were dead by

654
01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:19.039
forty. You know. The life
that we enjoyed today is a result of

655
01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:25.239
the extraordinary technology that we brought to
bear. Yeah, so the like you

656
01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:31.440
know, Hobbs life is nasty version. Yeah. I actually I had a

657
01:00:31.480 --> 01:00:38.960
little yorkshiteria one who was a nasty
verish and short and kept biting people.

658
01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:46.639
So I called them hobbs perfect.
I would tell friends that that that came

659
01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:51.679
over and watch out for the dog, and they look at the moon for

660
01:00:51.760 --> 01:00:55.039
York and laugh, and then they
would fight them on the end, and

661
01:00:55.079 --> 01:01:01.559
I said watch I said, watch
out. Uh you know that extinctionist meme

662
01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:10.239
is the same sort of you know
you discounted until it starts being a mind

663
01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:15.800
virus h in part as you've called
it, and it starts disrupting us.

664
01:01:17.199 --> 01:01:29.159
Yeah, if you convince people that
you know we're running out of resources on

665
01:01:29.199 --> 01:01:32.119
Earth, that there are too many
people in the world and the only way

666
01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:37.159
to survive is to have far fewer
people, which a lot of people are

667
01:01:37.880 --> 01:01:39.840
believed to be the case. And
like I said, if that, if

668
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:46.039
that somehow gets programmed into AI,
and that AI becomes the most powerful AI,

669
01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:51.679
then we're in deep trouble. Ah. Yeah, we need to counterforce

670
01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:58.400
the population bomb. I mean,
what an extraordinary disservice to humanity. Yeah,

671
01:01:58.519 --> 01:02:02.159
Alex's book was terrible nightmare. Maybe
the most anti anti human book ever.

672
01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:08.360
Yeah, for sure, for sure. The but get people hope.

673
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:13.159
On the flip side, here,
those who are saying again going back to

674
01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:15.840
I don't want to bring up my
children because I hear this all the time,

675
01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:19.440
and I'm sure you do too,
in an age where AI is going

676
01:02:19.480 --> 01:02:25.559
to descry us. So short term
problems, long term problems, short term

677
01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:30.400
solutions, long term solutions. You
said, make it curious, make it

678
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:37.000
maximum truth seeking one hundred percent.
Is it okay to say that we're going

679
01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:42.760
to have issues in the short term
and we're gonna have to deal with them

680
01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:45.559
or do you think there want be
there? There will be, There will

681
01:02:45.559 --> 01:02:53.880
be some issues at this point.
No way to stop AI. It is

682
01:02:53.960 --> 01:02:59.440
accelerating, whether people like it or
not. I mean that's what that's uh

683
01:02:59.800 --> 01:03:05.000
the why. Together with a number
of really small people, we created x

684
01:03:05.079 --> 01:03:15.239
AI and you know, hopefully you
know, some really small humans will continue

685
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:21.400
to join x AI and and build
what is intended to be maximally truth seeking

686
01:03:21.559 --> 01:03:31.920
and maximally curious AI. Anyway,
I think that's that's really important. So

687
01:03:32.679 --> 01:03:38.199
elon listen on behalf of of those
of us and I think everybody here listening

688
01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:47.559
who are pro humanity and pro uplifting
humanity and making us a multiplanetary species and

689
01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:52.320
living a longer, healthier life.
And I the one place I disagreed with

690
01:03:52.360 --> 01:03:58.320
you on on on x is on
uh, you know, having people live

691
01:03:58.440 --> 01:04:00.639
longer. You don't. People don't
need to die for there to be new

692
01:04:00.679 --> 01:04:04.280
ideas. You know that the CEO
of Ford and GM enough to die for

693
01:04:04.320 --> 01:04:12.079
Tesla to come into existence, so
we're uh, yeah, you know,

694
01:04:12.360 --> 01:04:15.880
I want to just say thank you
for what you're doing and and setting a

695
01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:25.400
model for other other industrialists and entrepreneurs
out there to take on and solve big,

696
01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:31.199
huge problems. Well, thank you. And I would encourage people to

697
01:04:31.239 --> 01:04:38.559
be optimistic about the future. Like
we're on the side of optimism. You

698
01:04:38.599 --> 01:04:42.440
will be happier for it, and
and that, as you put it out,

699
01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:46.000
probably live longer. So I'm not
I'm not totally against life extension.

700
01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:50.960
I think we did we you know, we want to be I'm not.

701
01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:54.920
I don't think we want to necessarily
have people live forever that's or look for

702
01:04:54.920 --> 01:04:58.840
a very long black thousands of years
that I think that would potentially lead to

703
01:04:58.880 --> 01:05:03.559
ossification of society. It would,
I think lead to ostigation of society.

704
01:05:03.639 --> 01:05:12.400
But I mean solving dementia and you
know, caring cancer I think are good

705
01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:17.039
things obviously. So so I'm not
sure we're actually that far apart on the

706
01:05:17.079 --> 01:05:27.360
life extension thing. You're probably mostly
in agreement. We just don't want to

707
01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:29.960
have like, you know, can
you live for a like do you want

708
01:05:30.039 --> 01:05:32.599
Kim john on living for a thousand
years now? But I'd like I'd like

709
01:05:33.039 --> 01:05:36.880
Elon Musk Competer demand is living for
one hundred and fifty years, and a

710
01:05:36.920 --> 01:05:45.960
few other thousand amazing entrepreneurs out there. Sure, So it's it's uh,

711
01:05:46.400 --> 01:05:50.480
you know, there there is a
a challenge that like a lot of people

712
01:05:50.639 --> 01:05:54.239
that really never changed their mind,
they just die. And this this is

713
01:05:54.280 --> 01:05:59.960
actually I'm not sure who originally said
this, but even in physicists where which

714
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:08.760
is extremely rigorous, that that you
know, that you know, physics in

715
01:06:08.760 --> 01:06:11.880
a lot of cases has advanced one
death at a time. Yeah, my

716
01:06:11.880 --> 01:06:17.159
my friend Brian Keating was a astrophysicist, reminded me of that and and maybe

717
01:06:17.280 --> 01:06:23.440
it was true. But in this
world of entrepreneurship, I think we do

718
01:06:23.559 --> 01:06:28.360
live in a meritocracy to a large
degree, and the best ideas can bubble

719
01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:34.000
up to the top faster than ever
before, especially with with AI now where

720
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:39.800
you can build companies, you know, extraordinary companies with a couple of people

721
01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:46.320
in a lot of tech. So
yeah, I have one last question and

722
01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:54.239
then uh it's I know it's dinner
time. There the future of x x

723
01:06:54.320 --> 01:07:01.519
AI. What's your vision there?
Hell well, yeah, I was saying

724
01:07:01.880 --> 01:07:09.320
I think the path AI safety it's
above MAI that is maximally truth seeking with

725
01:07:09.400 --> 01:07:17.119
acknowledged error, that is maximally curious. And I think that I think that

726
01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:23.400
that that is most likely to lead
to a good outcome for humanity because we

727
01:07:23.480 --> 01:07:30.679
are we are much more interesting than
than than not humanity like that obviously.

728
01:07:30.920 --> 01:07:34.880
You know, I'm a big fan
of Mars, but Os is much less

729
01:07:34.920 --> 01:07:44.119
interesting because there's no human civilization there. And you take humans for example.

730
01:07:44.119 --> 01:07:47.199
We we we could hunt down all
of the chimpanzees and kill them, but

731
01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:54.639
we don't, and in fact,
we make efforts to preserve their habitats.

732
01:07:55.039 --> 01:08:01.719
We would so anyway, I think
that that's that is the path to a

733
01:08:02.079 --> 01:08:10.880
great future, and a maximally positive
AI is to be rigorously truth seeking,

734
01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:20.039
always acknowledging some amount of error,
and and maximally curious. That's and that's

735
01:08:20.119 --> 01:08:27.720
that's the goal of x C I
S and you know, the company might

736
01:08:27.760 --> 01:08:32.800
I always understand the universe. Uh. And that's a it's a it's a

737
01:08:32.840 --> 01:08:35.640
good mission and one that's going to
take a bit of time. I can't

738
01:08:35.640 --> 01:08:41.600
wait till the first AI is able
to come up with you theories of physics

739
01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:45.640
and I ME innovations that's going to
be. I mean, I don't think

740
01:08:45.640 --> 01:08:48.239
that's far away, and I think
that's gonna be one of the most awesome

741
01:08:48.279 --> 01:08:55.520
times ever to be alive. True, like we we definitely live in the

742
01:08:55.520 --> 01:09:00.279
most interesting times. And I actually, for a while I was kind of

743
01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:08.319
depressed a bout AI, But then
I kind of got fatalistic about it and

744
01:09:08.359 --> 01:09:13.600
said, like, well, even
if even if AI was gonna, you

745
01:09:13.640 --> 01:09:18.239
know, and all humanity, would
I prefer to be around to see it

746
01:09:18.399 --> 01:09:21.000
or not? I guess I would
prefer to be around to see it,

747
01:09:24.560 --> 01:09:30.119
just out of curiosity, but obviously
hopefully AI is extremely beneficial to humanity.

748
01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:33.800
But the thing that sort of reconciled
me to be less anxious about it was

749
01:09:34.439 --> 01:09:38.159
to say, well, I guess
even if it was apocalyptic, I'd still

750
01:09:38.239 --> 01:09:42.399
be curious to see that. It's
like to you know, be curious to

751
01:09:42.399 --> 01:09:45.359
see it. I remember I was
at your birthday party at one of your

752
01:09:46.359 --> 01:09:51.199
homes here in LA before you sold
them, and Larry Page was there and

753
01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:56.279
Sergei was there, and we were
having a conversation about living in a simulation,

754
01:09:57.000 --> 01:10:00.680
and the notion was this is where
then ninety ninth level of the gameplay

755
01:10:00.840 --> 01:10:04.760
and this has got to be a
simulation because you couldn't. Why would be

756
01:10:04.880 --> 01:10:10.079
why would we be alive right now
in this single most interesting time. And

757
01:10:10.159 --> 01:10:16.680
then the only comment was don't poke
the simulation or the whole end. Yeah.

758
01:10:16.760 --> 01:10:26.760
Yeah, Well, if we are
in a simulation, the way to

759
01:10:26.840 --> 01:10:31.800
keep the simulation going is to keep
being interesting. So, like humans run

760
01:10:31.840 --> 01:10:36.640
lots of computer simulations because we don't
know what the outcome is going to be

761
01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:41.840
and we're curious to see, we
will run lots of simulations like in La

762
01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:47.640
Testa will run crash simulations and Spacelex
will run you know, rocket flight simulations.

763
01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:54.520
And we're only stop doing the simulations
when the when the outcome is extremely

764
01:10:54.560 --> 01:11:00.800
predictable and boring. Yes, so
if we're in some that's a great argument

765
01:11:00.840 --> 01:11:04.920
that it is perfect, right,
it's absolutely known if we're not, if

766
01:11:04.960 --> 01:11:10.479
we're not, if we're not entertaining
enough to the digital gods or the universe gods,