WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.840 --> 00:00:05.120 This week, we had an Egypt and learned about a new female pharaoh known 2 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:11.759 as Sobek Nepharu, who lived during the Middle Dynasty, the Middle portion of 3 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:16.320 the Great dynasties of the ancient Egypt. What is unique about her is that 4 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:20.879 she rises out of the death of her brother. We don't hear a great 5 00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:24.559 deal about her, and her reign was only for four years. She takes 6 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:30.519 her own life, and what happens is her death creates a cult, an 7 00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:38.920 unusual cult that lasts for over five hundred years into the time of Nefertari and 8 00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:44.799 had shipsit, who was also a noted ruler of Egypt. Our guest today 9 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:48.920 is Andrew Collins, who's written this new book, and we're going to hear 10 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:56.159 about not only the discovery of this ancient pharaoh, but also the unusual circumstances 11 00:00:56.159 --> 00:01:00.799 of her rise to power. All this and more for you today on the 12 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:41.200 program for Saturday, April twenty second, twenty twenty three. This is Earth 13 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:51.560 Ancients. I'm your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, how are you. 14 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:57.000 I gotta tell you I am getting excited our Grand Egyptian tours coming up in 15 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:00.920 a couple of weeks. I leave on the thirtieth of April, and I'll 16 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:07.840 be meeting our group this year in Cairo the second of May. And so 17 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:10.800 it takes a day to get I'm in San Francisco, it takes a day 18 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:15.639 to get there from where I'm located. And we have people coming from New 19 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:23.479 Zealand, from Australia, from Germany everywhere to gather and as a group see 20 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:29.240 the great sites of Egypt. And you hear me talking about it all the 21 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:32.919 time. It's probably, in my estimation, it's the best tour I've ever 22 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:43.080 done. And thankfully Sabba tours with the host and Egyptologist Muhammad Imbrium is world 23 00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:45.719 class. And we used to joke and say, well, hey, this 24 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:50.240 is a diplomatic tour, and you know it's a VIP across the board. 25 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:55.840 We don't say diplomatic anymore, but I gotta tell you it's VIP. And 26 00:02:55.960 --> 00:03:00.639 if you ever get a chance to come with us, we'll see what I'm 27 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:06.800 talking about. And to a person, everybody has a great time. On 28 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:14.560 that note, today's program is featuring a new book called The First Female Pharaoh, 29 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:22.000 so Beek Nephru Goddess of the Seven Stars. It's by author Andrew Collins 30 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:23.960 and This is a brand new book. In fact, it's a couple of 31 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:28.199 weeks before it's being launched, so we're doing a kind of a preview of 32 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:36.439 this book, and this interview today is with Andrew and his research into what 33 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:43.840 is probably the first woman anointed I guess you could call a pharaoh ship, 34 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:49.360 which is a ruler of the Upper and Lower Egypt at that time. And 35 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:57.639 this is Twelfth dynasty, so it's about eighteen hundred BC, which is wow, 36 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:02.400 that is over three thousand years ago. Wait a minute too, Yeah, 37 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:10.680 it's closer to years ago. And this is a very strange period. 38 00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:15.240 We don't have a great deal of knowledge about exactly what is going on, 39 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:23.959 and this woman pharaoh who shows up and for a short period of time keeps 40 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:34.399 things pretty tight and functional until things ultimately shift. So what makes these stories, 41 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:41.560 these these chronicles of these individuals is the fact that you know, these 42 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:47.000 dynastic periods are so long ago, and we're in many ways blessed to have 43 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:58.439 hieroglyphs, tons of statuary, tons of written material about these people, and 44 00:04:58.519 --> 00:05:02.879 it's just very curio. It's very very curious because they're in a whole different 45 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:15.759 paradigm. They're building these megalithic temples. They're cutting and shaping and smoothing the 46 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:21.519 hardest stone in the world. In some cases, we don't actually know how 47 00:05:21.560 --> 00:05:27.959 they cut some of this granite. And you know the typical answers are copper 48 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:33.839 chisels and mallets. Well, you cannot cut granite with copper, you just 49 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:39.120 can't. And you can chip away at it, but you can't cut it 50 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:46.879 in the precision that we see in buildings like the Osyrian or the columns at 51 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:51.879 Hathor, or the blocks of stone on the outer and inner chambers of the 52 00:05:53.000 --> 00:06:00.120 Cheops pyramids. So there's something that is missing in our knowledge. And without 53 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:06.439 the available machines, which are you have turned to death over the thousands of 54 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:15.439 years since they were used, or any knowledge or not our writing left to 55 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:24.879 us, we are at a complete loss for understanding who the inventors were and 56 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:32.360 just how sophisticated these dynastic artisans were the story of this pharaoh, this woman 57 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:38.600 pharaoh, so Macnifferu, is a unique one. I have never heard of 58 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:44.920 her. She came before hat ship Suit, who was a noted ruler. 59 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:50.079 In fact, hat ship Suits Temple is a place that we go to each 60 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:56.560 year on our tour because it's magnificent, it's huge, it's ornate, and 61 00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:02.199 there's a lot of special characteristics. There's acoustic property that's built into the temple. 62 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:08.079 And I got to mention this that I am bringing this year. I 63 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:16.120 am bringing a tri filled meter to measure geomagnetic and different types of radiation that 64 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:21.560 is coming out of the ground into these buildings and in places where we can 65 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:26.199 get quiet time. You know, I'm going to suggest the group, you 66 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:30.560 know, do some intention work, do some meditation. And this is what 67 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:35.439 I love about our tourist. It's not about just the sights and these megalists 68 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:44.519 and these beautiful statues. It's also about the energy that is permeated throughout these 69 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:53.879 temples, pyramids and buildings. And so we don't know exactly how sophisticated they 70 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:59.480 were in their sacred sciences. We know that there are sacred sciences. They're 71 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:07.120 written about out but Orthodoxy does not acknowledge subtle energy. They don't acknowledge geomagnetic 72 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:15.240 energy coming through the ground into these temples. And somehow the temples accessing that 73 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:22.120 energy and either intensifying, magnifying, or distributing it in such a way. 74 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:28.439 We have no clue. Now, what makes our tours so great is the 75 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:33.600 fact that Muhammad does understand this fact, and he is in touch with the 76 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:39.679 indigenous people that still live and commune with these temples, pyramids and buildings and 77 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:48.879 know exactly when to go and sit and meditate and in some cases get healing 78 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:56.120 from the energetic forces of these temples, so buildings and pyramids. So hard 79 00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:01.039 to say exactly what's going on. But I'm gonna bring my trifiometer. I'm 80 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:07.240 gonna actually take photos of it. And in the past I was kind of 81 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:09.759 quiet and said, oh yeah, check a look, take a look at 82 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:11.399 this. With this time, I'm gonna go, hey, stand here, 83 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:18.519 stand here and see how people feel. So looking forward to it. Okay, 84 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:24.279 So I am going to play a short audio that introduces so back Nafuru 85 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:28.399 to you and give you a sense of just who she is before we have 86 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:39.679 Andrew Collins join us. So here's a quick audio to listen to. During 87 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:46.279 the nineteenth century BC, ancient Egypt was experiencing a time of great prosperity and 88 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:52.000 stability under the rule of the Twelfth Dynasty. This stability was threatened when the 89 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:58.279 reigning pharaoh Amenum hats the fourth died without a male lair. Amenem Hats the 90 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:03.200 Third brought Egypt the greatest heights it would ever reach during the Middle Kingdom period. 91 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:09.600 After a lengthy rule spanning over forty years, a menem Hats the Third 92 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.440 died and was succeeded by his only living son, a menem Hats the Fourth, 93 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:18.960 who ultimately ruled for only nine years before dying without an heir, leaving 94 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:24.519 his sister Sobek Nephru with the strongest claim to the throne. According to the 95 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:31.399 king list compiled by the third century b C. Egyptian priest and historian Manetho, 96 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:35.360 Sobek Nephru was not only a menem Hats the fourth is sister, but 97 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:41.879 his wife as well. Ancestuous marriages were common among ancient Egyptian royals in order 98 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:46.919 to keep power and wealth within the family and away from ambitious rival families. 99 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:54.799 The devastating consequences of incestuous unions left offspring with shorter than average lifespans. This 100 00:10:54.960 --> 00:11:01.639 meant that the kingdom frequently underwent periods of instability as power transferred from one ruler 101 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:05.600 to the next. Much of what we know about Sobek Nephru comes from the 102 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:11.399 limited monuments and artifacts that have been discovered, which include statues, scarabs, 103 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:18.840 seals, beads, and other records. This glazed cylinder seal and stetite scarab 104 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:24.200 inscribed with Sobek Nephru's name provide evidence of her rule. Sobek Nephru is also 105 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:30.360 mentioned in both the Karnak king list and the Sakara Tablet. However, her 106 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:35.000 name was notably absent from the Abydos king list, along with every other female 107 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.559 pharaoh, including Hadchepsut, who is widely regarded as the most powerful and successful 108 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:46.960 female pharaoh in all of ancient Egyptian history. The name Sobek Nephru translates to 109 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:50.840 the beauty of Sobek. This was the first instance of a pharaoh choosing a 110 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:58.679 regnal name associated with the ancient Egyptian crocodile god Sobek. The deity was viewed 111 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:03.279 as the creator of the night River and associated with faronic power and military prowess. 112 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:09.039 Sobek was also known as the Lord of the waters and believed to have 113 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:15.200 the power to provide inundation and fertility to the land. The crocodile god grew 114 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:20.279 to great prominence during the Middle Kingdom period and was the central deity of several 115 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:26.639 cults at the time, sobek Nephru adopted to the complete royal titulary traditionally reserved 116 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:31.960 for pharaohs, which consisted of five names symbolizing both worldly power and spiritual might. 117 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:37.000 This is significant because while other women before sobek Nephru are believed to have 118 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:43.159 held positions of power such as queen regent, none were previously granted the full 119 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:48.120 royal titles that effectively made sobek Nephru a fully fledged pharaoh in her own right. 120 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:07.759 It's interesting to note that there is no tomb, nobody, no buildings 121 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:16.879 that are dedicated to Sobec Nafuru, and what small statuary we do have has 122 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:24.200 been defaced, and it makes it really really a challenge to know just when 123 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:31.399 she died and also where she's buried. If there's no sarcophacus, if there's 124 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:37.559 no crypt or temple or pyramid or anything that was used as kind of a 125 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:41.759 place to lay her to rest, we just don't know about it. So 126 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:46.720 we'll find out more today in our program. So today's program is the first 127 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:56.080 female pharaoh, Nafuru Goddess of the Seven Stars of My guest today is Andrew 128 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:09.759 Collins. Each year, Earth Ancients heads to Mexico for a private tour of 129 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:16.840 some of the most intriguing ruins from the Maya and other Mesoamerican cultures. This 130 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:22.639 year, November tenth to the seventeenth, we'll be heading to Vera Homosa in 131 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:28.120 southern Mexico to see the site of the omec Ruins at La Venta. This 132 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:33.879 includes a visit to the world famous outdoor museum where there are megalists of all 133 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:41.360 sizes and shapes. We then head to Palak in Chiapas and visit this jewel 134 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:46.759 of the Maya Empire with doctor Edwin Barnhardt as our host. We'll be there 135 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:50.200 for two days, and then we head out to Bottompeck, site of one 136 00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:56.080 of the largest murals left to us from the Maya Classic period. For more 137 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:03.480 information and details on this tour, go to earth Ancients dot com forward slash 138 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:07.960 tours and you will see the entire itinerary and more details. This is a 139 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:13.799 one of a kind tour with doctor ed Barnhart and yours truly. For more 140 00:15:13.840 --> 00:16:18.759 information, Earth Ancients dot com Forward slash Tours. I'm heading to Egypt in 141 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:23.919 a couple of weeks and I am fascinated by this ancient location we've been there. 142 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:32.159 We're doing our Earth Ancient Annual Grand Egyptian Tour, and anything happen to 143 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:37.200 do with Egypt is a fascination of mine. And I just got a copy 144 00:16:37.480 --> 00:16:42.000 of Andrew collins new book, The First Female Pharaoh, a couple of weeks 145 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:47.200 ago, and I thought it appropriate that we have him on the program. 146 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:52.360 And it's an interesting story on a lot of different levels. When we talk 147 00:16:52.440 --> 00:17:00.919 about the ruling class of Egypt is so steeped in history and intrigue, and 148 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:07.759 it's a very very very ancient place obviously, with these different dynasties. But 149 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:15.000 we've had Andrew Collins on before. He's a prolific writer. I don't know 150 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.920 how to how he keeps putting these books up. He does, and this 151 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:23.680 is a good one. And actually it's on a woman pharaoh, the first 152 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:29.799 female Pharaoh. Her name is Sobek Nepheru, who I have not heard of 153 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.640 before. We're gonna hear about her today and it's very very interesting on a 154 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:38.599 lot of different levels. And it's also a look into the hierarchy of these 155 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:45.519 ruling class of men and women who were fascinating individuals on their own right, 156 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:51.200 but have they're all steeped in great mystery. So hey, Andrew, Welcome 157 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:56.200 to Earth Ancients. Great to have you on the program. PLA, yeah, 158 00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:00.319 ye place to be here. Talk about this subject, Nephru. How 159 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:04.599 did she turn up in your research? Were you down in the Egypt and 160 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:11.960 you found a well fragment something that was a trigger on this Well, I 161 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.839 mean it's a long, long story, and some of the people out there 162 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:21.720 probably know it, but my interest in her really started in the early eighties, 163 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:29.400 and in particular, somebody I know who started receiving these, you know, 164 00:18:29.559 --> 00:18:34.799 dreams or visions about this Egyptian female ruler, and although they didn't come 165 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:40.359 up with the name Sara, they mentioned the date that this person was supposedly 166 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:45.759 ruling, and it was eighteen hundred BC, and you know, I quickly 167 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:51.079 looked it up and it was quite obvious that the person was talking about Sobeknofro. 168 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:53.240 Well, I'd never heard of her at all at this time, but 169 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:57.640 you know, the implications right from the start is that she was somebody who 170 00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:02.920 was very, very important, but that had been completely forgotten about by history. 171 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:08.680 So I started to take an interest in her and examine, you know, 172 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:12.240 every piece of evidence, whether it be from history, whether it be 173 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:21.400 from archaeology, whether it be from contemporary traditions like the Jewish tradition with Arabic 174 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:23.759 tradition and the Greek tradition. To try, if week, to see if 175 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:29.920 we could actually put together, you know, quite literally her biography, which 176 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:33.160 is what I've done with this book. But how can we really introduce her 177 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:38.480 well, I think it's important to look at Egyptian pharaohs. I mean not 178 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.640 sorry, not just the Egyptian pharaohs, but of female pharaohs. I mean 179 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:48.720 we all know about hatsp Shoot, I mean she ruled around fifteen hundred and 180 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:55.480 fifty BC as part of the Eighteenth Dynasty or the New Kingdom. We obviously 181 00:19:55.519 --> 00:20:02.559 have Nefertiti. She was the wife of Aknatum and possible the mother of Twoton 182 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:07.640 Common. We're not sure about that. It's possible she may well have actually 183 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:11.039 even ruled in her own right at the very end of her of the of 184 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:15.119 Aknatam's reign, certainly for a very short period of time, I've one to 185 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:21.039 two years. And then of course we've got people like Cleopatra, you know, 186 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:25.480 somebody who we know very well, particularly from you know, films like 187 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:30.519 the one featuring Liz Taylor, of course, you know, for Elizabeth Taylor 188 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:34.200 in the nineteen sixties, which, to be honest, almost gave us a 189 00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:41.359 stereotype of Egyptian female pharaohs. You know, some of that was right and 190 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:45.000 some of it was definitely wrong. And I would say that there's a good 191 00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:49.000 chance that all of these women would have been very much aware of subect no 192 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:56.599 Offrom and would have seen her as some kind of spiritual mentor particularly hatsep shoot, 193 00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:07.880 because there are a number of indications from the statuary architecture texts that she 194 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:11.599 used in death, you know, on her in her tomb, that they 195 00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:18.240 were copied almost exactly from subec Nofro. And I would not be the first 196 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:26.359 writer researcher to point out the fact it's quite clear that had ship Soot saw 197 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:30.799 subec Nofro as her role model. And I think that's really really important, 198 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:40.200 because you know, you've got here a woman whose life changed Egyptian history and 199 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:42.720 may well have changed the history of the world, because I think that without 200 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:48.599 her reign, which lasted for four years, this world would have been completely 201 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:51.759 different. Now how different, I don't know, but all I do know 202 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:57.880 is that the great period of success and prosperity in Egypt, which we call 203 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:03.200 thee that the New Kingdom, which began with the eighteenth dynasty, where he 204 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:07.400 had lots of great you know, kings like that. You know, the 205 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:14.680 topmost is obviously akin Artan, you know, something to the come on horam 206 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:17.319 heap, you know, people like this, and then obviously making way for 207 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:22.440 the nineteenth dynasty with Rameses the second and people like this. None of that 208 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:26.160 would have happened without her. And obviously I'll tell you for why, because 209 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:33.000 her father was a very successful king of the twelfth dynasty by the name of 210 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:40.000 amenem At third, and he ruled for you know, fourth to five decades 211 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:47.640 and was very very successful. He had quite a tolerant policy towards you know, 212 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:52.319 people coming in from outside of Egypt and settling in and of course most 213 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:56.599 of these were Semitic people's coming in from Canaan and the area of the Sinai, 214 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:04.640 and they grabbed He took different positions of of um, yeah, power 215 00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:08.880 say power not so much at the beginning, but you know, jobs basically 216 00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:15.240 u and whether this was in the the navy, in the the Egyptian army, 217 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:21.880 whether it was as as officials, whether it was like butlers in houses 218 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.880 and stuff like this. And what gradually happened is that, you know, 219 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:33.640 there was quite a large um Semitic population in Egypt and everything was going well. 220 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:40.960 But then what happened was that he dies and his son takes over. 221 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:45.640 Now his name is Imanemet the fourth. Now, um you know, the 222 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:48.720 fact that he was also going to rule with his sister, whose name was 223 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:53.920 Nefertar, is something that comes into this, but we'll maybe come back to 224 00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:59.799 that. Yeah, And what happens is that I'm the fourth reigns for about 225 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:10.599 nine years, and he becomes even more progressive in his policies and starts not 226 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:15.119 just allowing more and more people to come into Egypt, but also to allow 227 00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:25.440 them to influence decisions that were being made by he himself. And he basically 228 00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:30.440 turned away from the religions that were important at this time, which was mostly 229 00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:37.839 surrounding the cult of armand the cult of Subbek the crocodile god, and started 230 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:45.799 embracing very specifically the priesthood of rah Teleiopolis, but also decided that he would 231 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:52.160 create a brand new kingdom in the Sinai region and almost turn his back on 232 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:59.480 existing centers of power. In Egypt, and this was unquestionably being done through 233 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:04.880 Semitic influence. And so what seems to have happened is that there was quite 234 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:10.240 a lot of people in Egypt in power who didn't like what was going on 235 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:17.480 and realized that unless something changed, then Egypt was going to fall. And 236 00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:22.480 you know, their concerns were real, very very real, because within a 237 00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:26.640 couple of generations of here, Egypt did essentially fall to the what's known as 238 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:32.599 the hike Sas warlords or the Hyksos kings who came in and took over large 239 00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:37.599 parts of Egypt. Now, what happened was that it would seem as if 240 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:41.720 these you might call them nationalists, you know, those that wanted to keep 241 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:47.119 the sovereignty of Egypt I think sided with his sister, who, to start 242 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:51.440 off with, I think ruled virtually alongside him. Now want to say his 243 00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:56.039 system. I'm now talking about Tobeic Nofra, Because what happens is that the 244 00:25:56.119 --> 00:26:00.400 other sister, Nefertar, disappears. I want I mean by that is that 245 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:07.880 she dies mysteriously, probably between the ages of sixteen and eighteen, and initially 246 00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:14.400 she's buried alongside her father at the third who basically dies around the same time 247 00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:18.720 and is then her remains taken out and putting in a separate small pyramid. 248 00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:27.000 This is a hawara in the Foam region of Egypt, and Sobek Nofrou suddenly 249 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:30.640 takes power. Now, she couldn't have done it on her own. She 250 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:36.119 must have had an awful lot of support, most obviously from the priesthood that 251 00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:40.200 was most closely related to her, which was that of Sobek, the crocodile 252 00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:48.039 god. And she would seem to have started off as a co regent to 253 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.559 her brother. I'm at the fourth and they would seem to have been really 254 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:57.240 close to start with. And it even seems possible that when he came to 255 00:26:57.319 --> 00:27:02.240 the throne, he actually commit in the building of two pyramids, one that 256 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:03.920 was going to be for her, one of which was going to be for 257 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:08.279 him. And these were at a place called Meskoona, which is just south 258 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:15.240 of Dashore. That's them, I think the Bad Pyramid and the Red Pyramid 259 00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:22.000 pyramids attributed to him. The Black Pyramid is one of the two pyramids of 260 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.839 Aminem. The third by the way, you know, that's something Dad. 261 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:33.759 And so what happens is that eventually her brother dies. Now what I say 262 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:37.720 in the book and will come onto this, is that he was almost certainly 263 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:44.119 murdered. I think he was murdered by the nationalists who were supporting his sister 264 00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:49.960 by now that was Subek Nofro, and that basically she then rose to power 265 00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:56.200 for that for the next four years and changed everything she became. She closed 266 00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:02.400 the borders, did not have the same time wareance towards you know, Semitic 267 00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:06.440 peoples, even though and I showed this in the book that in her early 268 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:11.039 years she almost certainly was brought up in the Delta in an area that was 269 00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:15.759 very strongly Semitic in origins. In other words, she would have had that 270 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:18.519 as part of her own background. And I think that this was one of 271 00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:23.720 the things that got her into some of the more spiritual side of life, 272 00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:29.559 which I think related to the goddess Hathor, and particularly I think her more 273 00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:33.759 Semitic or kind of night Fall, which generally went under the name of Balat, 274 00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:37.720 which means the lady. Exactly which goddess she was, we're not sure 275 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:41.480 it could have been. Let me stop you real quick for a second, 276 00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:47.240 Andrew. So when she took power, was she made a pharaoh of the 277 00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:53.480 Upper and Lower Egypt. So yeah, she was so Actually documentation that she 278 00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:57.880 was Maine made the ruler of Egypt. Yeah she was. Yeah, she 279 00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:04.000 was the first to to basically be crowned with both of the crowns of Upper 280 00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:10.160 and Lower Egypt. And you know that basically is the sign that you know, 281 00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:15.079 you rule the whole of the country. Um. Now, I mean 282 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:18.039 some people might say at this point, we'll hold on. You know, 283 00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:22.440 surely that women had had ruled before this time. Well, yes, there 284 00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:27.839 were a few, but they either did it by default in other words, 285 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:33.279 you know, their their husband, the pharaoh had vanished, possibly on a 286 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:37.279 war for a bit so she could go, or she may have been a 287 00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.920 regent, you know, for for a younger Um. You know, key, 288 00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:47.240 but this was the first time that a full blown pharaoh who was female 289 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:52.720 actually ruled the country. And as I said, she she ruled only for 290 00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.480 four years, but it was a very traumatic time, I think, and 291 00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:00.519 at the end of it, I think that they came after her. I 292 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:04.319 mean, just in the same way that her brother had died mysteriously. I 293 00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:08.640 think that they came after her. And you know, she knew that her 294 00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:14.039 time was up, and one of the problems was is that we know that 295 00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:18.559 in the third year of her reign, the Nile floods were particularly low. 296 00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:23.839 Now this is really no good because what it means is that if they're not 297 00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:30.200 high, they will not flood the plains of the Nile Valley and obviously bring 298 00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:36.599 that that rich black soil that is needed with all the chemicals in it that 299 00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:41.039 allows full growth, you know that the following growing season, you know, 300 00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:45.920 so that you can grow your crops. Now we don't know what was going 301 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:51.599 on in the other three years of her reign, but the fact that this 302 00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:56.519 was happening would have been just the excuse that her opponents needed to say, 303 00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:59.720 yeah, look what this woman is doing. You know, it was everything 304 00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.680 was when her brother was on the throne of her father. But now you 305 00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:07.839 know, look that the gods are abandoning in us because you know, we 306 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:15.319 we haven't we haven't got any Nile floods um and you know this means famine 307 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:21.000 and disease and whatever else. And what's interesting is that certain Egyptologists have actually 308 00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:27.759 speculated that during this period, when something like this would happen, a king 309 00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:34.480 could either abdicate or commit suicide. Basically, and I think that's exactly what 310 00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:38.119 she did. But I don't think it's suicide in in the way that we 311 00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:44.799 would perceive suicide. It's suicide in the way that Cleopatra achieved the self. 312 00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:52.960 You suggest snake or poison or spo I mean that whole story in connection with 313 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:57.319 Cleopatra is is just pure symbolism. I mean, the snake is a symbol 314 00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:02.720 of medicine and magic. It was also a symbol of the goddess Isis, 315 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:13.119 who was the platron of Cleopatra. I mean, Cleopatra was very heavily into 316 00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:15.960 the cult of Isis. She wore a pendent around her neck, you know, 317 00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:22.519 from that particular cult, and so she adhered to the ways of Isis, 318 00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:27.079 and that was dealing with magic and medicine, of which, as I 319 00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:31.279 said, the chief symbol was the snake. And the whole story relating to 320 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:37.519 her being bitten by an ass probably covers up the fact that she would have 321 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:45.039 ingested I would say, hallucinogens that would have both connected her with the other 322 00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:51.000 world almost immediately, but then obviously when the overdose took effect, this would 323 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.359 have allowed her to quite literally walk into the afterlife. Now we're talking about 324 00:32:54.480 --> 00:33:00.319 Cleopatra here. But I think that exactly the same thing happened with never Tt. 325 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:07.519 And the reason I say that is that there is almost certainly an account 326 00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:14.359 of her preserved in Greek tradition, and this is in the works of Herodotus, 327 00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:17.720 the father of history, who wrote about four hundred and fifty BC, 328 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:23.480 and he talks about a female pharaoh, you know, king of Appera, 329 00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:30.319 lohead Egypt, whose name was Nito Chris. And the story that he gives 330 00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:36.559 is that her brother ruled before her, and that he was murdered, and 331 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:43.720 that she took revenge on those that murdered her brother by supposedly tricking them all 332 00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:47.319 into this this this building and allowing the waters to come in from the nile 333 00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:52.680 and drown them all. But the interesting fact is that it says that so 334 00:33:52.839 --> 00:34:00.559 as she herself did not suffer the same retribution she throws, she repaired, 335 00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:05.160 in other words, went into um, you know, a room full of 336 00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:08.400 ashes and killed herself, you know, hot ashes, And you think, 337 00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:13.159 well, what the hell is all that about? Well, these hot ashes, 338 00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:19.119 I'm pretty certain we're talking about incense. The burning of incense on sensors 339 00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:23.559 that would almost certainly have had hallucinogens on them, and you know, would 340 00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:30.159 have put people into an altered state of consciousness. So if you add that 341 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:35.840 with the idea that you could have also ingested orally other hallucinogens, you know 342 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:40.360 clearly it's going to kill you if it's not monitored. And and you know, 343 00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:44.599 these people were not just dealing with things like cannabis here. I mean, 344 00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:49.480 you know, they would have been dealing with hallucinogens which you know, 345 00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:52.199 the toura for instance, that if you took in the rock amount would would 346 00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:57.280 kill you instantly. Almost yeah, you know. But the thing is that 347 00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:00.760 if you allowed it to happen, you know, if you allow to take 348 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:04.559 you from this world into the afterlife, I think that you know, they'd 349 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:08.119 have done it basically. So I think that's exactly what happened to her. 350 00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:15.280 But let's let's say what happened after she died, because she was able to 351 00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:19.800 pass on the baton of sovereignty of Egypt onto the next dynasty that ruled. 352 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.719 Now, this was one of two dynasties, right, because this is where 353 00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:28.960 it all starts falling apart. You've got the Thirteenth dynasty, many of which 354 00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:32.760 many of the kings of which all bore the name, Sobek Sobek was the 355 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:38.760 deity, which she very clearly because of her name, you know, centrally 356 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:45.000 focused around and they would seem to have carried the you know, the torture 357 00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:47.800 sovereignty of Egypt, you know, throughout the next let's say, one hundred 358 00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:53.000 hundred and fifty years. And what happens is that they then passed past that 359 00:35:53.079 --> 00:36:00.039 torton to their next dynasty, which is the seventeenth and they are the ones 360 00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:05.719 that will eventually get rid of the hike saus kings that have overridden Egypt. 361 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:12.280 Now, without subec Nofrey establishing the thirteenth dynasty, there would have been nothing 362 00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:15.039 to stop the other dynasty that rose up at the same time, which is 363 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:22.360 the fourteenth dynasty that went hand in hand went parallel with the thirteenth, and 364 00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:29.480 this was a very clearly Semitic based dynasty. You are, there's various evidence 365 00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:32.639 within the names of the kings, and evidence has been found to suggest that 366 00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:37.920 firstly they their seat of powers in the Delta, which was now a stronghold 367 00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:45.440 of the Canaanite people, but secondly that they themselves were almost certainly Canaanites, 368 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:50.360 and that they paved the way for the entry into Egypt and the taken over 369 00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:52.800 of Egypt bya the hike saus Kings, who were also known as the Shepherd 370 00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:59.599 Kings, and what they did was just essentially, you know, raise most 371 00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:04.360 of each to the ground. They allowed this almost like this sort of puppet 372 00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:08.239 dynasty to continue on in the south of the country the thirteenth you know, 373 00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:14.639 not realizing that it had any power, and you know, not considering it 374 00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:19.239 any kind of threat. But you know, they were a threat. As 375 00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:23.159 I said, they passed on the Batnes's sovereignty to the seventeenth and there were 376 00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:30.360 kings like Amos and Carmos who eventually would rise up and you know, create 377 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:37.000 an army that would defeat the Hikesos. And let's look at the situation. 378 00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:42.320 If this hadn't have happened, if the hikes Kings had continued to rule Egypt, 379 00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:46.000 the chances are that Egypt would simply have become a part of the Canaanite 380 00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:51.960 Empire. In other words, it would be simply another vassal state of the 381 00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:57.559 overall Canaanite Empire that stretched all the way from Syria, you know, and 382 00:37:57.559 --> 00:38:01.920 obviously right the way down into Egypt point and the world would have been a 383 00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:07.519 different place. I mean, Egypt would never have recovered. Um So without 384 00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:12.239 her reign, without her actions, which you know, some people might you 385 00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:16.920 know, consider to be um you know, unprogressive as it were, Egypt 386 00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:23.039 would have fallen. And I mean some Egyptologists have even suggested that that there's 387 00:38:23.079 --> 00:38:29.960 slim evidence to suggest that her family may have even known that something bad was 388 00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:32.840 on the horizon. Um you know, almost like premonitions. I mean, 389 00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:36.920 this is the word that works to use. In other words, that they 390 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:40.119 knew that something bad was about to happen to Egypt. And this period is 391 00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:47.480 known as the Second Intermediate Period. But unfortunately, something not fruit was not 392 00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:55.000 given credit for any of this. She it would seem, was blamed for 393 00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:00.440 what had happened. That's that's that's what I want to talk to you about. 394 00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:05.400 She doesn't come up on the King's list number one, number two, 395 00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:08.519 and I find this fascinating. This we don't know where she is laid to 396 00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:13.280 rest, that's correct. We don't have a tomb for her, we don't 397 00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:20.960 have any kind of writing regarding her her, that's right. Yeah, I 398 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:24.679 mean, well we don't even know how old she was. Well, no, 399 00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:29.440 but I mean all of the estimations that given the book, based on 400 00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:35.039 a number of different factors, would suggest she was probably around thirty to thirty 401 00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:37.039 five when she died. Oh, I thought she was much younger than that. 402 00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:40.400 Okay, no, No, she was probably about that. I mean, 403 00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:45.000 you know, remember that before her there was basically about a nine year 404 00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:49.719 reign of her brother where she would have been involved with that. That means 405 00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:53.519 that, you know, she would have come to the four probably in her 406 00:39:53.920 --> 00:40:01.679 about twenty, So that really doesn't make sense. And she her sister who 407 00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:07.239 was never Ta, who seemed to have been the product of the same father 408 00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:15.360 but a different mother. She was unquestionably being groomed to become the next pharaoh 409 00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:20.320 of Egypt by her father i'm an m At the third who and that she 410 00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:24.639 was going to rule alongside her half brother i'mann em At the foulth, So 411 00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:30.840 they were at Now the thing is you have to say to yourself, you 412 00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:37.400 know, if that had happened subect Nofru, who obviously eventually becomes king of 413 00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:42.400 Egypt, what would her role have been And the answer is nothing. She 414 00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:49.239 would have been nothing because all the indications are that her initial route was basically 415 00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:57.800 to become a priestess in a temple, possibly a priestess of Hathorte in her 416 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:06.000 early years, but something happened that changed her destiny and what I speculate, 417 00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:09.400 and this is based on the fact that one of the statues that actually appears 418 00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:17.559 to show her has her dressed in a what's known as the heb said cloak 419 00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:23.559 and her hands in a position which suggests that she's gone through this so called 420 00:41:23.559 --> 00:41:30.440 heab said festival. But this is impossible because the heb said festival was something 421 00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:37.519 that a king would only undergo after they ruled for about thirty years, you 422 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:40.199 know, And the idea of it was that a huge great court would be 423 00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:45.960 built, as head said cult for instance at Sakara, and that they would 424 00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:52.679 have to undergo a series of physical you know, you know, trials and 425 00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:58.960 tribulations to prove that they were worthy both in body and mind to continue ruling 426 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:04.920 the rule in the country. And then once you did one he said festival, 427 00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:08.559 then you have to redo them every few years after that. Now, 428 00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:16.400 why the hell was she wearing a heab said cloak at her coronation because that 429 00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:22.760 appears, is what the statue shows, and the and the and the only 430 00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:30.800 answer is that she obviously decided that she'd done enough for her to be able 431 00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:37.480 to wear it. And what I find interesting is that the divine influence that 432 00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:43.920 essentially presides over the he Said festival is the goddess Hathor. She's the one 433 00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:45.880 that basically sort of says, you know, yeah, you've done a good 434 00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:50.559 job. You know, I'll give you the right signs that the king can 435 00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:54.199 continue on. But it seems as if Sobek Noofu had a personal connection with 436 00:42:54.280 --> 00:43:01.360 her, and I think underwent some kind of initiation involving either half or or 437 00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:08.400 her Semitic counterpart Ballad that gave that convinced Heurn. It was probably people around 438 00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:15.159 her convincing her that it was her destiny to rule Egypt and that if she 439 00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:22.239 accepted this, they would help her become ruler of Egypt. Now, who 440 00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:28.480 were these people? I think that they're going to be obviously court officials that 441 00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:34.119 are associated with her father Ian at the fourth but sorry third, but also 442 00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:40.039 they're going to be the priests of the Temple of Sebek. Sobek was arguably 443 00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:50.320 the most important cult religious cult during this period. It had risen up throughout 444 00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:52.519 the whole of the dynasty, to which she belonged, which was the twelfth 445 00:43:52.639 --> 00:43:58.119 dynasty, and was in a really powerful position by the time of her father 446 00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:02.480 Ian at the third her brother I'm in there at the fourth ignored it completely, 447 00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:09.239 ignored Sobek completely, and in personal inscriptions would ally himself to the god 448 00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:13.920 Amen, sorry, God artum Ra. You know that the forms of the 449 00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:21.239 sun God. And he aligned himself with the Temple of Heliopolis, not the 450 00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:25.239 temple or Sobek, which was in the Fium, And this seems to be 451 00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:30.519 part of his plan to create this new kingdom in the Sini. This is 452 00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:36.159 what he was trying to do. So basically, I think that her supporters 453 00:44:36.199 --> 00:44:43.519 were definitely the priests of Sabek and another number of other people who clearly had 454 00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:46.760 clubbed together to support her and said, look, you know, if we 455 00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:52.360 take out your brother, will support you. Basically, Now, when she 456 00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:57.360 was directly or indirectly involved with his death is a matter of speculation, but 457 00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:00.239 I think that that she certainly knew what was going a new yet to be 458 00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:07.000 taken out. Basically, the few statues that we have of her show are 459 00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:13.199 very uh. The characteristics are very male and female. Yeah, and she 460 00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:17.360 seems to have these big ears too. Orr is reminiscent of other statues. 461 00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:23.320 Why are why are there so few statues statues of her? And the ones 462 00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:28.840 we do have her somewhat defaced. Yeah, I think well, I mean 463 00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:31.320 some of that is going to be icanocalism, you know, in other words, 464 00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:38.199 the deliberate smashing of them for religious or political reasons. But there's no 465 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:43.960 question that she was suppressed. I mean, you're going to Egypt, aren't 466 00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:49.000 you? Yeah? Yeah, are you going to Abydos? Always right, 467 00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:52.239 Well, when you're in when you're in Abydos, as you walk through the 468 00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:57.840 temple on the walls, there is all of the kings that ruled Egypt. 469 00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:01.320 As you're going out to the Assyria at the back, have a look there 470 00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:07.360 at the first temple. Yep, said Seti the first. You know Seti 471 00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:12.360 the first, and the Ramesis. Look, these are all the kings that 472 00:46:12.519 --> 00:46:16.800 rolled for us. Yeah. Now you look, you have arman Emet the 473 00:46:16.840 --> 00:46:21.039 third, you have I met and met the fourth, you know the Cartou 474 00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:27.760 Shehes and then nothing until the beginning of the eighteenth dynasty. The next king 475 00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:31.159 on that list would have been Sobek no Offro. Why is she missing when 476 00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:36.719 we know full well that she rolled for four years? And the answer is 477 00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:42.760 that for some reason she got blamed for the fall of Egypt immediately after a 478 00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:45.880 time when all the indications are that she was the one that kept it going, 479 00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:49.679 and she was the one that was able to pass on the baton of 480 00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:52.800 sovereignty to the next dynasty, the thirteenth, because she was in the twelfth 481 00:46:52.880 --> 00:47:00.559 dynasty. And well, I think that therefore her story was suppressed, so 482 00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:05.000 you know, with other than a few mentions here and there, in for 483 00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:13.280 instance, the Labyrinth, which is something that she unquestionably completed at Hawara in 484 00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:20.559 the fium which originally started as the Molktrie temple of her father and the third, 485 00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:27.360 but she then transformed it into essentially the central religious center of brit of 486 00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:31.559 of of of Egypt. Quickly you mentioned the labyrinth. Yeah, that's a 487 00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:36.360 that's a myth. Still we still haven't found the labyrinth. No, now 488 00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:42.320 we have, of course we have. It's no, no, it's it's 489 00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:47.519 a it's a Hawira in the fium Um. If you go to the one 490 00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:51.239 of the two pyramids of M and m at the third, which is the 491 00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:55.320 one at hawarra Um, it's immediately to the south of there. I mean, 492 00:47:55.360 --> 00:48:01.039 it's a huge, great complex that's described by Hereditus. That is going 493 00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:07.519 to say he described because I mean he says that it was more impressive than 494 00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:13.960 the Pyramids of Geezer something. I mean, this is Hereditus in around four 495 00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:19.000 hundred and fifty BC. Yeah, it's there. I mean M. Paul 496 00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:25.400 Lepsius was the first, you know, Western archaeologists to excavate it in the 497 00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:32.679 early part of the nineteenth century, and then Flinder's Petrie investigated it towards the 498 00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:37.880 end of the nineteenth century, and then obviously, you know, work has 499 00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:44.480 been done since that time. But they found not only inscriptions in the name 500 00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:50.360 of subek Nooffer his father, but also in the name of subek Nooffer herself. 501 00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:55.000 And it's quite clear that this whole complex was begun by her father and 502 00:48:55.039 --> 00:48:59.840 completed by her. But she didn't use it just as a moultry temple to 503 00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:06.440 father. She used it as a center almost like an omphilos of sacred center 504 00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:12.239 of Egypt. And all the indications are that there were at least forty two 505 00:49:12.440 --> 00:49:17.880 or quite specifically forty two different chapels, each of them dedicated to one of 506 00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:27.039 the local gods of the different noms ms or districts of Egypt, and that 507 00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:37.119 the idea was that Sobek was becoming a monotheistic god basically, And what she 508 00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:44.960 insisted was that the priests of all of the district different gnomes visit the labyrinth 509 00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:51.599 one, let's say, once a year maybe more, to pay offerings to 510 00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:58.639 Sobek, who was being seen by her as the living spirit of all of 511 00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:01.280 these other local gods. So all these other local gods had their own names, 512 00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:07.079 you know, and you know that some of their coats were probably extremely 513 00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:10.119 ancient. But what she was saying is yes, but they're all aspects of 514 00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:15.000 Sobek. So what she was actually doing, for the most part was creating 515 00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:22.639 a type of monotheism most around Sobek. And I think that she was trying 516 00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:28.079 to centralize the whole of the country. But it wasn't just Sobek involved that 517 00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:34.039 her Sobek's mother was very important as well, and this was the goddess Nith. 518 00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:43.960 Now Nith is a standing hippopotamus basically with large grouping breasts, and she's 519 00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:47.760 seen as like a sort of mother of all. And when she's depicted with 520 00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:55.719 her son Sobek, the crocodile god, you see the standing hippopotamus and the 521 00:50:55.880 --> 00:51:05.320 crocodiles on the back of the hippopotamus. And this is not just shown in 522 00:51:06.199 --> 00:51:12.159 ancient Egyptian tradition, but it's also shown as a sky figure. In other 523 00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:15.400 words, it's in the sky as well and occupies the area of the sky 524 00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:23.000 that we know today as the Draco, the constellation of the serpent, right 525 00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:28.519 you know where the turning point of the Evans are, you know, the 526 00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:36.719 polar axis, the ecliptic, the celestial pulp, but also the stars of 527 00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:40.519 Ursa Minor, and it would seem involved with this, this this little group 528 00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:45.320 was the stars of Ursa Major as well, you know, the Plow the 529 00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:54.760 Dipper, and that these three constellations formed part of a a miscycle involving nath 530 00:51:55.480 --> 00:52:00.119 As, the mother of Sabak, and Sabek himself. And amongst these, 531 00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:06.280 it would seem like the most important star was one in Draco, an orange 532 00:52:06.320 --> 00:52:13.719 star called Eltonan, and this seems to have formed the eye of the crocodile, 533 00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:16.880 you know, as a sky figure in the sky. And it would 534 00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:22.440 seem as if both the pyramid that was being prepared for her at Masgoona, 535 00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:27.519 which is known as Masgoona North, which has been destroyed. Some people suggest 536 00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:34.599 that it was never even completed. Masgoona south was for him, which it 537 00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:37.639 would seem you know, her brother, I'm Gonnamet the fourth, but also 538 00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:44.440 just on the north side of the Fim Lake, which is a huge inland 539 00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:49.559 sea in the fire, which seems to have been very important to why the 540 00:52:50.199 --> 00:52:53.280 became so important, you know, during her age, is that there is 541 00:52:53.320 --> 00:52:59.400 a very strange megalithic temple there. It's one of the most enigmatic buildings in 542 00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:04.719 the whole of the Egypt. It's made of huge stone blocks, polygonal blocks, 543 00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:12.280 very similar to the temple that the Valley temple of Kaffrey at Gezer, 544 00:53:12.679 --> 00:53:24.079 very very megalith and the Assyrian at Abydos, and her name or fragments that 545 00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:30.119 seems to suggest that she was associated with that temple, which was dedicated according 546 00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:36.840 to tradition, to Sobek, would seem to suggest that she was involved not 547 00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:39.440 so much with its building, because it does seem to be a building that 548 00:53:40.119 --> 00:53:45.880 dates at least to the Pyramid Age, you know, the Old Kingdom period, 549 00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:54.800 but that she redecorated it or redesigned the interior because the actual internal architecture 550 00:53:55.599 --> 00:54:01.800 is almost identical to another temple on the south side of the foam lake at 551 00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:08.119 a place called Medanit Mardi, and this is a temple dedicated to Sobek but 552 00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:15.480 also to the snake goddess reninute It. Now, she seems to have very 553 00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:21.480 little to do with that temple, But whoever designed that temple designed the interior 554 00:54:21.519 --> 00:54:25.360 design of the megalithic temple at Kastel Saga, as I say, on the 555 00:54:25.400 --> 00:54:34.199 northern side of the fiam so and that is also orientated, as I show 556 00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:38.840 in the book, towards the setting of the star Altinum, just as her 557 00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:45.840 pyramid at Masguna is also orientated towards the same star. So you know that 558 00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:52.559 this this shows her astral beliefs in the importance of the stars and the importance 559 00:54:52.599 --> 00:54:59.920 of the cult of Sobek and his mother Nith. You know, two very 560 00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:05.239 very very ancient traditions. And these were ideas that were carried on, it 561 00:55:05.320 --> 00:55:09.000 would saying, by the thirteenth dynasty. The dynasty that followed her, they 562 00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:16.119 also seemed to have followed this sign religious tradition. We're gonna take a short 563 00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:22.320 commercial break to let our sponsors identify themselves, and we will be right back 564 00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:28.000 with Andrew Collins presenting information on this new book, The First Female Pharaoh. 565 00:55:29.559 --> 00:56:08.400 We'll be right back. My guest today is author Andrew Colin, who has 566 00:56:08.440 --> 00:56:15.480 released a new book called The First Female Pharaoh, Sobek Nepheru Goddess of the 567 00:56:15.559 --> 00:56:22.679 Seven Stars. This is a in depth research piece on a unknown pharaoh, 568 00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:27.880 a female pharaoh from the Middle Kingdom period, and we're getting an insight on 569 00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:35.800 just what she accomplished during her reign. Talk a little bit about your belief 570 00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:44.440 that the women who followed her more like hats Chepst and others. Perhaps we're 571 00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:51.000 interested in her magic technique and her because she apparently and you hint at her 572 00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:55.400 using magic, and maybe this is what developed into a cult. Yeah, 573 00:56:55.480 --> 00:57:00.960 yeah, I think, As I said, there is some evidence. It's 574 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:04.199 not strong, but I build up as much as I can in the book 575 00:57:04.239 --> 00:57:08.199 to suggest that she was actually brought up in the Nile Delta, a place 576 00:57:08.199 --> 00:57:15.639 called telll Darba, where there was a temple where at least three statues of 577 00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:20.880 her in a very poor condition were discovered at the beginning of the nineteen fourties, 578 00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:28.760 and the archaeologist that did the work there, you know, said that 579 00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:35.199 she must have had a personal connection with this town, and it was even 580 00:57:35.239 --> 00:57:37.639 suggested that she may well have been brought up there. Well, what's so 581 00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:44.239 interesting about that is that telll Darba was the main center for the settlement of 582 00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:52.880 Semitic or Canaanite people's in Egypt from quite an early stage, and my colleague 583 00:57:52.920 --> 00:58:00.320 David Roll, for instance, wrote a whole book basically showing the biblical character 584 00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:07.079 of Joseph Um. You know, not only was around at the time of 585 00:58:07.239 --> 00:58:14.000 Amenemt, the third fourth subec Nofrwy and the first couple of kings of the 586 00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:19.239 thirteenth dynasty, but that his house was in Tell el Daba, and that 587 00:58:19.280 --> 00:58:24.360 a statue that was found at the site may well actually even show Joseph because 588 00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:30.360 obviously Joseph, Yeah, this is a guy who you know, had a 589 00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:32.599 load of brothers, you know, because we all know the biblical story, 590 00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:37.559 and they sort of, you know, leave him for dead. They don't 591 00:58:37.639 --> 00:58:43.960 like him, and eventually he sold as a slave into Egypt. But then 592 00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:47.159 he wrote that. But then, you know, he becomes a servant to 593 00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:57.599 a priest of Ra the iliopolis Um and eventually the wife of this you know, 594 00:58:57.639 --> 00:59:00.639 this high ranking official accuses him him of trying to come on to her, 595 00:59:00.679 --> 00:59:07.519 which was a trumped up charge. He's ran into prison, and you 596 00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:12.679 know, it's realized eventually that he has this ability to be able to translate 597 00:59:13.159 --> 00:59:16.199 or interpret dreams. And of course, you know, Pharaoh has these dreams 598 00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:20.800 about these seven lean years and seven fat years and you know, cows and 599 00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:24.320 whatever, and they call for Joseph and he says, basically, look, 600 00:59:24.960 --> 00:59:29.159 your dreams mean you've got to stock up over the next seven years because you're 601 00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:34.679 gonna have seven years of famine. And he then rises to become Visier of 602 00:59:34.760 --> 00:59:37.760 Egypt, I mean quite literally, the second in command of Egypt. Well, 603 00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:43.559 I mean I tackle this in the book because there are a number of 604 00:59:44.320 --> 00:59:52.800 Arabic stories that seem to continue this story of Joseph's involvement in Egypt, and 605 00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:58.199 they pad out what the Bible doesn't say, and it's very very clear that 606 00:59:58.599 --> 01:00:01.199 Joseph. Yeah, and when I say Joseph, I mean we're not necessarily 607 01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:06.800 dealing with one single guy. I think that he represents, you know, 608 01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:13.000 the importance of the Semitic community in Egypt at the time of these particular pharaohs, 609 01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:17.639 and he's he's become condensed into a symbol, a single composite figure. 610 01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:22.480 I would say personally myself, I'm not saying there wasn't somebody called Joseph, 611 01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:24.800 But what I'm saying is that I think that some of the stories connected with 612 01:00:24.880 --> 01:00:30.880 him are probably based on more than one person, but that you know, 613 01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:37.079 according to Arabic tradition, he's involved with the building of this canal between the 614 01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:42.199 Nile and the Fame Lake, you know, which basically allowed the waters from 615 01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:46.840 the Nile to come in and feel the Fame Lake. Well, in Greek 616 01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:53.679 tradition, these same stories are all connected with Sobekna for his father, I'm 617 01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:57.320 an em At the third, He's the one that said to have built this 618 01:00:57.400 --> 01:01:01.119 canal that goes into the Fame Lake. So we're dealing with the same time 619 01:01:01.119 --> 01:01:07.360 frame, and there's no question that these activities did take place, and they 620 01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:12.639 did take place around the reign of Amenemic the third. But also interesting about 621 01:01:12.639 --> 01:01:16.719 the Arabic accounts, which come from much earlier Coptic sources, is that they 622 01:01:16.760 --> 01:01:23.679 talk about Pharaoh's daughter and how one of the reasons why Joseph takes on this 623 01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:30.039 job of creating this canal but also building a new palace is so that it 624 01:01:30.119 --> 01:01:37.000 is for Pharaoh's daughter. Now she's not named, but I am certain that 625 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:43.920 this is Sobet Nofro. And for some reason these clearly originally Semitic, then 626 01:01:44.039 --> 01:01:50.159 Christian accounts her once again try to whitewash her involvement with it. But anyway, 627 01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:54.039 coming back to what you said about, you know, the other female 628 01:01:54.079 --> 01:02:02.519 pharaohs seeming to take set as a kind of mentor well, it's Hapset Shot 629 01:02:02.599 --> 01:02:07.719 that seems to have mostly been interested in her. And not only is there 630 01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:14.280 various statues that mimic almost exactly those that we have of Sobek Noofri, that 631 01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:17.679 exactly the pose and style everything. And again it's not just me, other 632 01:02:17.800 --> 01:02:22.840 people, you know, Egyptologists have said this is too coincidental. She clearly 633 01:02:23.239 --> 01:02:30.079 is trying to mimic the style of Sobek Nofri. But beyond that is that 634 01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:37.639 in hap Set Shots early two, there's a psychophagus with a whole load of 635 01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:42.000 lines of like a sort of book of the dead if you like, okay, 636 01:02:42.360 --> 01:02:45.920 like you know that the words and sayings that you need to be able 637 01:02:45.920 --> 01:02:49.719 to transition from this world into the next world at the point of death. 638 01:02:51.039 --> 01:02:59.280 Now, these have been found to match almost word for word. The text 639 01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:02.000 was on the side of one of the two coffins. There was an inner 640 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:09.320 and out of coffin of sobek Noofru's sister, which were found in a sealed 641 01:03:09.360 --> 01:03:16.039 tomb in the mid nineteen fifties in the Fim, in fact, very close 642 01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:22.639 to the the labyrinth that Hawara. And the problem here and I mean, 643 01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:27.679 you know, the Egyptologists have noted this, and you know, called to 644 01:03:27.800 --> 01:03:35.079 question what's going on here? How is it that Hapset should uses these unique 645 01:03:35.719 --> 01:03:40.920 funerary texts, you know, on her sarcophagus when they're not discovered until the 646 01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:45.719 nineteen fifties, and there is no other examples of them around, certainly not 647 01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:52.119 in the same order and certainly not with the same completeness. And I mean, 648 01:03:52.199 --> 01:03:59.719 clearly there's no absolute answer, but the suspicion is that that Hapset should 649 01:04:00.039 --> 01:04:04.960 and these texts from subek Nofro in other words, they were part of the 650 01:04:05.039 --> 01:04:12.000 family of Subet Nofro and ad obtusly been used by the sister, and we're 651 01:04:12.079 --> 01:04:16.159 probably also going to be used by subbekt Noffer herself. And perhaps that Should 652 01:04:16.480 --> 01:04:20.960 wanted to go into death in the same why and possibly you know, with 653 01:04:21.400 --> 01:04:27.159 the belief that she would even meet Sobekner in death, you know, so 654 01:04:27.199 --> 01:04:30.519 that she put these on her own sarcophagus. In other words, if I 655 01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:35.960 take exactly the same route into the afterlife as a subec nofro, maybe I'll 656 01:04:36.000 --> 01:04:40.559 meet her when I get there. Um, And as I said, there's 657 01:04:41.360 --> 01:04:45.840 I mean, I think it's almost certain that hands steps should you know, 658 01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:49.320 saw Sube as her role model, No question at all about that. That's 659 01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:57.400 funny that you mentioned that. Perhaps yet so we're we're clothing or trying to 660 01:04:57.440 --> 01:05:04.960 emulate subject enough for his look and appearance. Yeah, what what do we 661 01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:10.880 know? You mentioned at the beginning her reign was basically at the end of 662 01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:16.159 the Twelfth Dynasty, ending basically the Middle Middle Kingdom. Yeah, in the 663 01:05:16.239 --> 01:05:24.119 four years that she reigned, it was something of note recorded that you found 664 01:05:25.199 --> 01:05:32.199 that would make her, you know, an important transition figure from the twelfth 665 01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:38.880 onto the other dynasties. Well, I mean when she died, very clearly 666 01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:43.639 there was no clear successor for her. In other words, you know, 667 01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:49.199 there was not a sound being lined up daughter obviously to take take over from 668 01:05:49.239 --> 01:05:55.960 her. The thirteenth dynasty suddenly appears and him right, Holt, who is 669 01:05:56.760 --> 01:06:00.519 you know, a very studious, very clever Egyptoley just has studied this period 670 01:06:00.639 --> 01:06:06.719 very carefully, and he reckons that the first two kings of the thirteenth dynasty, 671 01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:13.000 which both have the name Armon in one of their names, were probably 672 01:06:13.519 --> 01:06:20.079 the sons of arma At the fourth In other words, her sbet through his 673 01:06:20.360 --> 01:06:25.559 brother. Okay, in other words, he had two children with somebody. 674 01:06:25.599 --> 01:06:30.519 We don't know who. They could have been subect no, through his children, 675 01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:35.119 but there's nothing to prove that at all. They probably were the children 676 01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:40.679 of of of of of another wife, probably, but you know, there 677 01:06:40.760 --> 01:06:45.199 is absolutely no, you know, hard and fast answer. Now, the 678 01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:54.280 question is did she groom these two children to become the next two kings after 679 01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:59.480 she has killed her own brother? And I think there is a possibility that 680 01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:01.880 the answer is yes. I mean, I mean, as I said, 681 01:07:01.920 --> 01:07:09.159 some people could even suggest that these two children were hers, but we don't 682 01:07:09.199 --> 01:07:13.199 know. But but whoever they were, I think that she did prepare them. 683 01:07:13.559 --> 01:07:17.480 And what's so interesting here is that if she was involved with the killing 684 01:07:17.480 --> 01:07:23.760 of her brother, these two children who would become Kings one and two of 685 01:07:23.800 --> 01:07:28.559 the thirtieth dynasty supported her. They supported the cult Sabek, you know, 686 01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:33.559 they they deified her, you know, they clearly saw her as a mentor, 687 01:07:34.000 --> 01:07:38.400 you know, in fact, to the point of creating a cult in 688 01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:42.840 her name, you which would continue on throughout the Thirteenth dynasty, and I 689 01:07:42.920 --> 01:07:46.239 show as I show, probably continues all the way through to the New Kingdom. 690 01:07:47.039 --> 01:07:57.119 And so that's an interesting situation. If she killed their father, I 691 01:07:57.239 --> 01:08:01.480 mean, you know, either they didn't know that or somehow they accepted that 692 01:08:01.679 --> 01:08:06.559 this was the right thing to have happened. Um, so you know, 693 01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:12.440 that's that's what basically happened. But she, as I said, got blamed 694 01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:16.479 for this, and because of it, her name was stricken from I think 695 01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:19.359 various of the king lists. I mean, the most obvious that I've said 696 01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:24.000 the one Abydos Now, I don't get me wrong. She is mentioned here 697 01:08:24.039 --> 01:08:27.560 and there. I mean there's a king list from Sakara, for instance, 698 01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:33.479 that mentions her. She has mentioned also on a king list from Karnak that's 699 01:08:33.520 --> 01:08:38.720 currently now I think in the Louver in Paris. So you know, in 700 01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:45.199 other words, that there seemed to be differences of of opinion relating to you 701 01:08:45.239 --> 01:08:49.079 know, the importance of her role or or you know, whether she could 702 01:08:48.920 --> 01:08:54.960 or could not be blamed for certain things. But he definitely was suppressed. 703 01:08:55.039 --> 01:08:58.680 And I think this is one of the reasons why we have so many, 704 01:08:59.039 --> 01:09:05.279 so little statuary from her reign. It's also why we have so little inscriptions 705 01:09:05.319 --> 01:09:10.479 outside the Labyrinth or from the film. I mean, there are some, 706 01:09:10.680 --> 01:09:16.880 but very very few. And also why you know that there's very little about 707 01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:20.560 her. I mean, man Etho talks about her. He's the guy who 708 01:09:20.600 --> 01:09:29.920 writes around two hundred and fifty b c. He was a priest of rah 709 01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:32.239 If, I remember rightly, and I think I'm getting this right. And 710 01:09:32.960 --> 01:09:36.800 yeah, he's a guy that gives us the chronology of the kings of Egypt, 711 01:09:36.800 --> 01:09:44.800 the one that essentially everybody, every other classical writer uses. And he 712 01:09:45.159 --> 01:09:51.000 does mention a female ruler at the end of the twelfth dynasty, who he 713 01:09:51.079 --> 01:09:59.600 calls Schemiophris, and it says, basically, she was the sister of the 714 01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:02.720 previous is king, and the previous king clearly is i'm an Emez, who 715 01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:10.000 is fourth, so she is mentioned by Menetho. But what's so important about 716 01:10:10.079 --> 01:10:15.319 this is that this tells us very clearly that those two were brother and sister. 717 01:10:15.399 --> 01:10:19.920 And this is a crucial thing because some Egyptologists suggest that they had no 718 01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:25.640 relationship with each other at all. But you know, the evidence is unquestionably 719 01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:30.720 there. And so when you look at Herodotus and the story of Nito Chris, 720 01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:35.319 you know you have to look at a female pharaoh who had a brother 721 01:10:35.479 --> 01:10:41.840 that ruled before her, who she you know, took revenge on those that 722 01:10:42.039 --> 01:10:46.479 killed him. And I go into this in detail, and firstly, there 723 01:10:46.520 --> 01:10:51.920 cannot be any other brother and sister in Egyptian history that have this same role. 724 01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:57.600 And secondly, if you look at Herodotus the way that he refers to 725 01:10:57.640 --> 01:11:02.399 all of the different kings in book two of his histories, they're all in 726 01:11:02.439 --> 01:11:09.560 an order, and they start with with nightA Chris, and obviously a brother, 727 01:11:09.680 --> 01:11:14.239 the king, and then her father, and then before that father's father, 728 01:11:14.319 --> 01:11:18.399 and there's a list that are all quite clearly from the same dynasty, 729 01:11:18.439 --> 01:11:24.319 and that's the twelfth dynasty. And to me, this is good circumstantial evidence 730 01:11:24.760 --> 01:11:30.600 that she and thus her father, sorry, her brother the king, were 731 01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:36.039 Twelfth Dynasty kings. Now, some of the you know, the viewers out 732 01:11:36.079 --> 01:11:41.159 there are going to say, well, hold on nightA Chris, I thought 733 01:11:41.159 --> 01:11:44.359 that she ruled in the sixth dynasty. You know, I've read that, 734 01:11:44.439 --> 01:11:48.159 I've seen this mentioned in king lists. Well, this was a mistake that 735 01:11:48.399 --> 01:11:55.560 was based on what Manetho wrote, he placed her in the sixth dynasty, 736 01:11:56.640 --> 01:12:00.960 but also it seems to have been a mistake that he hopped from a much 737 01:12:00.039 --> 01:12:08.039 earlier king list, which is the Turin canon. We're very famous Papaye Rye 738 01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:13.319 king list, which you clearly as the name suggests, in Turing in Italy. 739 01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:16.000 And this was this was a king list which when it was found was 740 01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:21.680 complete, but by the time it was transported to Italy where they opened it, 741 01:12:21.680 --> 01:12:27.560 it all completely fallen to pieces. And it's taken you know, a 742 01:12:27.640 --> 01:12:30.399 hundred years or more to try and piece the whole thing together. And they're 743 01:12:30.439 --> 01:12:33.880 still doing it, and they're still arguing where different bits, you know, 744 01:12:33.920 --> 01:12:40.159 should go to this day. Um and kim Ryholt, you know, I 745 01:12:40.159 --> 01:12:44.800 mean, look look at at the page on Wikipedia for Nito Chris. It 746 01:12:44.800 --> 01:12:50.880 talks about this that Kim Ryholt has shown conclusively that the king which the name 747 01:12:51.119 --> 01:12:56.439 Nito Chris comes from, actually is a male to man, there's no question 748 01:12:56.479 --> 01:12:59.319 about that whatsoever. You know, you know, it's it's not even a 749 01:12:59.359 --> 01:13:05.760 female. Because we know that this particular person and his the name the throne 750 01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:10.239 name relate to a man we've got, you know, and there can be 751 01:13:10.319 --> 01:13:16.199 no doubt of that. It's a confusion that's come about, probably that in 752 01:13:16.279 --> 01:13:23.279 a very late New Kingdom period or maybe slightly later, and that it's something 753 01:13:23.399 --> 01:13:30.319 that confused man Etha himself. And in other words, there was never any 754 01:13:30.399 --> 01:13:35.479 female ruler in the sixth dynasty of Egyptian Egypt. But I think what we 755 01:13:35.680 --> 01:13:42.640 all to get onto is the fact that we probably know sobekn Off through under 756 01:13:42.640 --> 01:13:45.239 a different name. That even though most of the viewers out there are going 757 01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:49.199 to be saying, well, I've never heard of her, you know you 758 01:13:49.319 --> 01:13:54.640 do know her, and I'll tell you for why. Because in the nineteenth 759 01:13:54.720 --> 01:14:01.760 century, when you know that archaeology began in Egypt and this name sobek Nofer 760 01:14:01.760 --> 01:14:06.640 who started coming up, some of the early Egyptologists started to speculate that this 761 01:14:06.680 --> 01:14:14.840 woman was very very important. One particularly Egyptologist called Heinrich Bruge, for instance, 762 01:14:15.560 --> 01:14:19.199 who wrote quickly a thick double volume sat on the Kings of Egypt, 763 01:14:19.199 --> 01:14:25.960 wrote about her extensively, basically saying that it's quite clear that she created almost 764 01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:30.960 like a cult that continued on in her name afterwards. Because many of the 765 01:14:30.079 --> 01:14:35.880 kings of the Thirteenth dynasty also bore the name Sobakbak Hotech, which means basically 766 01:14:36.159 --> 01:14:45.039 servant of Sobek or follower of Sobek. And these ideas were picked up by 767 01:14:45.039 --> 01:14:50.880 a more speculative writer of Egyptology by the name of Gerald Massey, who had 768 01:14:50.920 --> 01:14:58.279 this great interest in the sky religion of ancient Egypt and wrote various really interesting 769 01:14:59.000 --> 01:15:03.239 books on ancient Egypt, like Egypt, Ancient Egypt, Light of the World, 770 01:15:03.520 --> 01:15:09.760 The Natural Genesis, various other I can't remember that there's another one at 771 01:15:09.840 --> 01:15:15.439 least, and he talks about Sobek offer when really bigs her up in there 772 01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:19.239 and basically says, this woman quite clearly was the revivalist of this age old 773 01:15:19.359 --> 01:15:25.119 cult to do with Sobek, the gods set you know, who can also 774 01:15:25.239 --> 01:15:30.880 be seen as a crocodile, and that you know this this kick started a 775 01:15:30.920 --> 01:15:36.039 revival of this cult that was picked up by the thirteenth dynasty and continued on 776 01:15:36.319 --> 01:15:42.920 probably into the New Kingdom period. Now, one of the people that read, 777 01:15:43.479 --> 01:15:47.800 well, I mean, I show the evidence why read Gerald masses books 778 01:15:48.119 --> 01:15:56.720 was the Irish writer Ram Stoker, who obviously we know as the writer of 779 01:15:56.800 --> 01:16:00.560 drac Killer. Yeah. Now, shortly after he wrote Jacula, he wrote 780 01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:06.520 what might be described as his Egyptian novel, and this was called The Jewel 781 01:16:06.640 --> 01:16:15.319 of Seven Stars, and it featured this ancient Egyptian female ruler who comes back 782 01:16:15.359 --> 01:16:18.960 from the dead and rics havoc in the modern world, essentially in Britain. 783 01:16:20.319 --> 01:16:28.479 And of course this becomes the main theme for every horror movie that's ever occurred 784 01:16:28.520 --> 01:16:33.239 since that time, where an Egyptian royal female rises from the dead and creates 785 01:16:33.239 --> 01:16:38.880 havoc, the last of which, of course, was twenty seventeen's The Money 786 01:16:39.319 --> 01:16:45.439 featuring Tom Cruise. In none of these, In none of these is the 787 01:16:45.560 --> 01:16:50.199 name Sabecofrou mentioned. But in some of them it's quite clear that the scriptwriters 788 01:16:50.720 --> 01:16:58.640 have done their homework and realized that that bram Stoker's queen, as he calls 789 01:16:58.640 --> 01:17:02.880 it, he calls a queen tear tr A is obviously based on Sobek Nofru, 790 01:17:03.680 --> 01:17:08.760 and have given nods to that fact, you know, in the films, 791 01:17:10.399 --> 01:17:13.840 so we do know her, or certainly we've seen her. But the 792 01:17:13.880 --> 01:17:17.359 other important thing is that another person who was inspired by the works of Gerald 793 01:17:17.399 --> 01:17:26.920 Massey was the occultist Kenneth grant. Now he writes a series of three trilogies 794 01:17:27.920 --> 01:17:34.000 called the Typhonian Trilogies, which are incredibly influential in modern day occultism. That 795 01:17:34.640 --> 01:17:42.199 again, seriously big up Sobek Nofru as this, you know, this founder 796 01:17:42.760 --> 01:17:47.479 of this ancient cult that goes back in many thousands of years, involving the 797 01:17:47.560 --> 01:17:56.279 crocodile, involving the hippopotamus. You know obviously the gods Sobek and Nith and 798 01:17:56.399 --> 01:18:00.560 that you know, she create creates this cult that then you know, snowballs 799 01:18:00.680 --> 01:18:08.039 throughout time and is a current, a magical current that is important to occultists 800 01:18:08.079 --> 01:18:14.319 today. And he also acknowledges in the last of these books before he died 801 01:18:14.800 --> 01:18:21.760 that Queen Tira, the antagonist in the book July seven Styles by Bram Stoker, 802 01:18:23.359 --> 01:18:27.680 is indeed Sobek Noferum. He states this, And I mean, going 803 01:18:27.760 --> 01:18:31.239 beyond this, I mean there's the books by a guy called Nicholas de Vere 804 01:18:31.439 --> 01:18:36.000 who's as a historian, a genealogist, a member of various different sort of 805 01:18:36.039 --> 01:18:42.079 like Shilric orders. He wrote various books about what he called the Dragon Kicks 806 01:18:42.439 --> 01:18:46.319 that throughout all of the European history there was like this sort of secret cabal 807 01:18:46.439 --> 01:18:51.119 of you know that like sort of supporting the kings. The kings were part 808 01:18:51.159 --> 01:18:55.319 of it, and that this goes all the way back to ancient Egypt, 809 01:18:55.800 --> 01:18:59.560 the founder being Sobek no Offerum, and he calls it the groul line is 810 01:18:59.640 --> 01:19:02.880 the ground Kings. Now I'm not supporting this. I'm not saying that you 811 01:19:02.960 --> 01:19:06.800 know this is correct, But what I am saying is this is how strongly 812 01:19:08.640 --> 01:19:14.079 this woman, this first female pharaoh of Egypt, yeah, remembered. In 813 01:19:14.119 --> 01:19:19.079 other words, her revival is coming in a way quite unlike that of let's 814 01:19:19.079 --> 01:19:26.119 say Cleopatra, Nefertiti or Hatset Shure. It's almost like she's had to come 815 01:19:26.239 --> 01:19:29.680 into our world through the back door, as it were. She's stronger in 816 01:19:29.840 --> 01:19:32.399 death than she is in life. It's amazing. Absolutely. The book we're 817 01:19:32.439 --> 01:19:39.920 talking about is the first female pharaoh, subject Nephreu, Goddess of the Seven 818 01:19:39.960 --> 01:19:45.439 Stars. My guest today has been Andrew Collins. Tell me where I mean 819 01:19:45.600 --> 01:19:49.319 it's a big deal to be a pharaoh. Where was she immediately anointed a 820 01:19:49.479 --> 01:19:54.600 pharaoh when her brother died? I mean that is that the language that you 821 01:19:54.680 --> 01:20:00.479 are able to find that she was pharaoh of the upper and and Lauren. 822 01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:04.239 Yeah, yeah, I mean there's no question that she was, you know, 823 01:20:04.680 --> 01:20:09.600 the ruler of both of those. I mean that, you know, 824 01:20:09.640 --> 01:20:15.079 inscriptions do tell us that there's no question about that whatsoever. So yes, 825 01:20:15.159 --> 01:20:18.840 we can only assume that on the point of the death of her brother, 826 01:20:19.520 --> 01:20:24.720 um, you know, she was chosen as his successor. And as I 827 01:20:24.760 --> 01:20:30.399 said, with all of these people, they yeah, they have their they 828 01:20:30.439 --> 01:20:33.239 have their the people surrounding them, you know, whether they be court officials, 829 01:20:33.279 --> 01:20:39.560 whether they be priesthoods, you know, other important maybe vassal kings from 830 01:20:39.600 --> 01:20:43.399 other country, who knows, and you know, they're going to be behind 831 01:20:43.439 --> 01:20:45.840 somebody, and if they're doing what they want them to do, they will 832 01:20:45.880 --> 01:20:49.479 continue to support them, you know. I mean it's it's like the monarchy 833 01:20:49.520 --> 01:20:55.159 today or whatever, you know, But as soon as they start putting a 834 01:20:55.239 --> 01:21:00.720 foot wrong, they may well change sides, you know, the words still 835 01:21:00.720 --> 01:21:05.399 start supporting another contender. And I think this is exactly what happened, you 836 01:21:05.439 --> 01:21:10.000 know, with the brother and the sister. And I think all the evidence 837 01:21:10.199 --> 01:21:15.600 is that, to start off with, I think the brother insisted ruled Egypt 838 01:21:15.600 --> 01:21:18.479 together. I mean, whether it was in an official capacity or an unofficial 839 01:21:18.520 --> 01:21:24.319 capacity, not sure, but you know, he was a brother, you 840 01:21:24.359 --> 01:21:26.680 know, I mean, you know, I mean obviously that there may have 841 01:21:26.680 --> 01:21:30.319 been a certain amount of sibling rivalry or whatever, but they were brother and 842 01:21:30.399 --> 01:21:34.800 sister and they were ruling the country together. But that something went wrong, 843 01:21:35.399 --> 01:21:41.319 probably within a few years of him ascending the throne, and it got to 844 01:21:41.359 --> 01:21:46.520 the point where communications between them broke down completely. And it is unquestionably to 845 01:21:46.560 --> 01:21:53.000 do with the direction that he wanted to take Egypt. And the various people 846 01:21:53.399 --> 01:21:57.640 was seeing this and said, look, we continue down this colt, Egypt's 847 01:21:57.680 --> 01:22:00.079 going to fall. You know, I think it needs to be done. 848 01:22:00.319 --> 01:22:06.159 You know, your progressive policies are going to destroy Egypt, and you know, 849 01:22:06.279 --> 01:22:10.920 so they turned to her and said, look, you know you've been 850 01:22:11.000 --> 01:22:15.319 ruling the country with him. You know, we will support you and you 851 01:22:15.439 --> 01:22:20.600 alone, you know, if we can get rid of him. And I 852 01:22:20.600 --> 01:22:26.680 think that's exactly what happened, that she was involved with his death. As 853 01:22:26.720 --> 01:22:30.159 I say, whether it's direct or indirect, I don't know. And this 854 01:22:30.199 --> 01:22:35.319 story, I'm pretty certain is what Herodotus tells us in the account of Nito 855 01:22:35.479 --> 01:22:43.319 Chris. But there's obviously one little twist there because it said that that NTO 856 01:22:43.479 --> 01:22:48.079 Chris seeks revenge on those that have killed her brother. So if she was 857 01:22:48.159 --> 01:22:53.039 involved with killing him in the first place, why would she need to do 858 01:22:53.119 --> 01:22:56.359 that. The answer is clear, I mean clearly, she wouldn't have been 859 01:22:56.359 --> 01:23:00.720 announced that either she or the people involved with this con spirity we were you 860 01:23:00.760 --> 01:23:04.119 know, we the people that killed her brother. But she would have used 861 01:23:04.119 --> 01:23:12.279 it to clamp down on everybody that she saw as opposing her rhyme. In 862 01:23:12.319 --> 01:23:15.800 other words, you you, you, and you and you. We're going 863 01:23:15.880 --> 01:23:19.399 to blame you for for for the death. You're gone, You're into the 864 01:23:19.439 --> 01:23:24.680 next life basically. Now. I mean, I know this all sounds pretty 865 01:23:24.680 --> 01:23:27.960 harsh, but you know, we're dealing with a different world. I mean, 866 01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:30.560 you've only got to look at the Caesars or the ptolemy Is, you 867 01:23:30.600 --> 01:23:34.039 know, or any other royal family, and I do show that, you 868 01:23:34.079 --> 01:23:39.319 know, there was quite a lot of this um um you know, this 869 01:23:39.319 --> 01:23:45.439 this this you know sort of in fighting between the dynasties going on even during 870 01:23:45.800 --> 01:23:47.720 the Twelfth dynasty, in which she was a part of, you know, 871 01:23:47.800 --> 01:23:54.760 from what we can tell. So I don't think it's any different to any 872 01:23:54.760 --> 01:23:59.479 other part of history where you know, if a king is ruling, well, 873 01:23:59.600 --> 01:24:04.560 there'll be allowed to continue on. If something starts going wrong, someone's 874 01:24:04.600 --> 01:24:09.960 going to want to remove them. Hm. This book's going to be out 875 01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:14.760 in about a month, a couple of weeks from now. I just side 876 01:24:14.920 --> 01:24:20.960 on Amazon, which means it will be on other electronic bookstores or probably your 877 01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:27.359 local bookstore like Barnes and Robal. Give us your website, Andrew, and 878 01:24:27.800 --> 01:24:30.039 also let us know what you're going to be up to in the next few 879 01:24:30.039 --> 01:24:36.119 months. Okay, Well, obviously, as as you said, the book 880 01:24:36.399 --> 01:24:41.479 is available from Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Simon and Schuster. I had 881 01:24:41.479 --> 01:24:45.800 to say. All this sort of stuff and anything that you need to know 882 01:24:45.840 --> 01:24:50.239 about the book can be gained from my website Andrew Collins dot com. There's 883 01:24:50.279 --> 01:24:57.279 links on there to all my social media. As to me, I'm off 884 01:24:57.560 --> 01:25:00.960 next month to Turkey because the absolutely the big exciting thing that I'm working on. 885 01:25:01.199 --> 01:25:05.680 I'm just finishing a book now on Karahan Tepe, which is the most 886 01:25:05.720 --> 01:25:14.159 exciting archaeological discovery of twenty first century, no question about it. I'm just 887 01:25:14.239 --> 01:25:16.640 doing finishing a book there. We're going there again next month. I've been 888 01:25:16.680 --> 01:25:24.760 there several times in the last year. And we're going to Egypt in November 889 01:25:24.760 --> 01:25:29.199 this year and we will be going in quest of Sabek Nofro. We're going 890 01:25:29.199 --> 01:25:32.800 to the Poem, We'll go to the Kazarell Saga Megalithic Temple, We'll go 891 01:25:32.880 --> 01:25:39.479 to Medinet Mardi Temple, will go to the labyrinth, and yeah, please 892 01:25:39.560 --> 01:25:43.920 join us. All the details are on Andrew Collins dot com. You'll see 893 01:25:43.960 --> 01:25:47.600 the events upcoming there. And yeah, I mean, you know, come 894 01:25:47.640 --> 01:25:50.439 along and let's talk about her, and let's try and find her too, 895 01:25:50.600 --> 01:25:56.319 because nobody knows exactly where she is buried. I mean, she was meant 896 01:25:56.359 --> 01:26:00.920 to have been buried in the Mescoona North Pyramid, but she definitely didn't reach 897 01:26:01.000 --> 01:26:04.800 that. That means she must have been buried in secret somewhere. So where 898 01:26:04.920 --> 01:26:11.520 was she buried? Hey, real quickly, this labyrinth, I've heard about 899 01:26:11.560 --> 01:26:16.560 it, but I I've never heard any of the public gaining any entrance to 900 01:26:16.680 --> 01:26:21.520 underground. Uh, you know, like like the it's not like the serapeum, 901 01:26:21.600 --> 01:26:27.119 which you can actually go and it's it's designated to go and visit. 902 01:26:28.119 --> 01:26:32.720 This labyrinth, which has been reported by a lot of important individuals over the 903 01:26:32.840 --> 01:26:39.359 over the ages. Have they actually taken pictures of it? I haven't seen 904 01:26:39.399 --> 01:26:45.039 anything. Well, I mean it was clearly completely trashed at some point um, 905 01:26:45.359 --> 01:26:50.479 and most of the masonry tyken and used you know for buildings elsewhere. 906 01:26:51.399 --> 01:26:58.520 I mean Herodotus and other classical writers, as I say, talk about this 907 01:26:58.600 --> 01:27:03.079 place being more impressive than the Pyramids himself. Now we can only but you 908 01:27:03.119 --> 01:27:09.159 know, what does that mean that well, we don't know obviously. I 909 01:27:09.159 --> 01:27:14.239 mean the classical writers describe it. I go into detail about what they all 910 01:27:14.359 --> 01:27:19.199 say in the book. But Herodotus tells us that essentially that there's as much 911 01:27:19.279 --> 01:27:26.600 underground as there is above ground, that there's you know, hundreds of secret 912 01:27:26.720 --> 01:27:31.199 chambers with crocodiles and ords of it. Now, um, this has not 913 01:27:31.279 --> 01:27:34.359 really been found, and the only reason why it's not been found is very 914 01:27:34.399 --> 01:27:40.000 clearly because we've not dug deep enough. There must be something underground there to 915 01:27:40.199 --> 01:27:45.199 be discovered. Otherwise Herodotus and these other writers must have been completely wrong. 916 01:27:45.880 --> 01:27:49.319 And I think that's unlikely because I mean Hereditus when he goes there in four 917 01:27:49.399 --> 01:27:55.439 hundred and fifty BC, I mean he's clearly got guides. You know, 918 01:27:55.520 --> 01:27:58.279 he's obviously talking to the local priests. I mean, it was still in 919 01:27:58.319 --> 01:28:02.720 operation. Remember it wasn't just a ruin. And you know, he's talking 920 01:28:02.760 --> 01:28:05.920 to the caretakers, so he's saying, won't tell me about it, you 921 01:28:05.960 --> 01:28:10.920 know, and they're obviously describing it, they're walking them around it, and 922 01:28:10.960 --> 01:28:13.800 he's and you know, he's saying, well, what's down there, what's 923 01:28:13.880 --> 01:28:17.600 underneath? And they describe what's underneath, and he says, can I go 924 01:28:17.680 --> 01:28:21.720 down there? And they basically say no, you know, that's that's the 925 01:28:21.800 --> 01:28:26.479 sacred part. You know, we can't take you down there. That's what 926 01:28:26.600 --> 01:28:30.640 he says in his accounts, So these are the words he uses. We 927 01:28:30.760 --> 01:28:35.439 haven't found those underground structures of the labyrinth, so we can only but speculate 928 01:28:35.479 --> 01:28:41.199 what's down there and how much of what these classical writers wrote is actually the 929 01:28:41.239 --> 01:28:45.119 truth. We don't know, Okay, I want to mention that in the 930 01:28:45.159 --> 01:28:50.960 Pyramid Code, the author mentions them. And then I had a guy on 931 01:28:51.000 --> 01:28:59.119 the program a couple of years ago who believes that actually he had some kind 932 01:28:59.159 --> 01:29:09.039 of scanning technology on a satellite pierced the area around this pyramid and apparently found 933 01:29:09.520 --> 01:29:14.760 canals that are in the ship of a labyrinth. And I didn't know if 934 01:29:14.800 --> 01:29:19.239 that was a true labyrinth or that, So, I mean, I would 935 01:29:19.239 --> 01:29:24.279 love to see those scans because I mean, you know, obviously I studied 936 01:29:24.319 --> 01:29:29.199 that whole landscape as I was doing the book, and there's a reconstruction of 937 01:29:29.359 --> 01:29:32.800 where the pyramid of i'm Emet the third days in relationship to the labyrinth, 938 01:29:32.920 --> 01:29:39.399 in relationship to the local canals. So I'd love to see that. What 939 01:29:39.520 --> 01:29:45.600 I do know is that there have been a couple of expeditions of people who 940 01:29:45.800 --> 01:29:51.359 have been out in that area and pinpointed other locations to the labyrin. Now 941 01:29:53.319 --> 01:29:59.520 I'm going to stick with the Egyptologists and say that it is exactly to the 942 01:29:59.560 --> 01:30:04.600 south of the Pyramid of Amenemic the third at hawara Um, you know the 943 01:30:04.680 --> 01:30:10.039 areas there. I mean, I mean Petree himself, you know, Flinders 944 01:30:10.079 --> 01:30:15.039 Petrie, the great British egyptologist at the end of the nineteenth century, described 945 01:30:15.159 --> 01:30:24.159 the labyrinth as as being bigger than Tarnak luck Saw and the Ramasseum, you 946 01:30:24.199 --> 01:30:27.119 know down in the area of life. Did he actually go under and see 947 01:30:27.119 --> 01:30:31.479 it? He excavated it there? Yeah? Yeah, so Petrie actually excavated 948 01:30:31.560 --> 01:30:34.239 problem. Yeah yeah, yeah, you can, you can, I mean 949 01:30:34.239 --> 01:30:38.600 his book is online, just look up archive dot organ. Yeah, we 950 01:30:38.680 --> 01:30:42.880 do everything, and yet there's no resources to look at it right now, 951 01:30:42.920 --> 01:30:45.560 I guess or it's not of great interest that we would go down and find 952 01:30:45.600 --> 01:30:49.720 it. So when you say it, you mean the actual structures and the 953 01:30:49.800 --> 01:30:55.079 underground labyrinth, you know. I mean, look, you know that the 954 01:30:55.119 --> 01:30:59.720 problem with Egypt as opposed to any other country is that you know, you've 955 01:30:59.760 --> 01:31:05.159 got to have the right permits to do any dig in concessions to to to 956 01:31:05.319 --> 01:31:11.920 dig in a particular area. And you know, somebody like me can any 957 01:31:11.960 --> 01:31:16.600 report on what evidence that we've got there and try and put the whole picture 958 01:31:16.680 --> 01:31:23.399 together. I would encourage I mean, I hope obviously this book will not 959 01:31:23.520 --> 01:31:29.079 only allow people to better understand subec Nofro and her family, but also I 960 01:31:29.119 --> 01:31:33.159 hope that it will encourage further archaeology in the vicinity of the lab Branth to 961 01:31:33.479 --> 01:31:39.319 really try and understand what was there. But from my point of view, 962 01:31:39.399 --> 01:31:44.920 it's very clear that this was being created to be the center of Egypt, 963 01:31:45.279 --> 01:31:48.920 where the Upper and Lower Egypt come together. Basically, you know, in 964 01:31:48.920 --> 01:31:54.279 other words, this was the point of demarcation of Upper and Lower Egypt, 965 01:31:54.399 --> 01:32:00.760 or certainly from an efficient in an official capacity at least. So so that's 966 01:32:00.800 --> 01:32:04.439 it, really, but fascinating lady. And if anybody has any information about 967 01:32:05.079 --> 01:32:09.960 that so I may have missed, then I would love to hear from him. 968 01:32:10.159 --> 01:32:14.079 And then your email is on that website, right, it tastes Yeah, 969 01:32:14.159 --> 01:32:15.960 yeah, I'm not gonna try and say it now. I'll probably get 970 01:32:16.000 --> 01:32:19.960 it wrong anyway. Yeah, yeah, there's a there's a click throw well 971 01:32:19.960 --> 01:32:24.960 Andrew Colleens dot com. Okay, excellent, Andrew, much success on this 972 01:32:25.000 --> 01:32:29.840 book. Fascinating is always a true detective story, and it surely leaves the 973 01:32:29.880 --> 01:32:35.039 door out open from more inquiry. You know, It's like, I was 974 01:32:35.159 --> 01:32:42.039 fat uh curious that there was so little statuary of this person, and it 975 01:32:42.119 --> 01:32:46.159 kind of reminds me of what happened to Akanatan when he tried to move the 976 01:32:46.199 --> 01:32:59.039 city to another location exactly and his whole uh rain was destroyed and all the 977 01:32:59.119 --> 01:33:02.279 statues were just there's already a handful of statues left of him, that's right, 978 01:33:02.720 --> 01:33:06.600 because they didn't they want to know memory of him. Yeah. I 979 01:33:06.640 --> 01:33:13.640 think what she was doing, which was what eighteen hundred BC akin Artem, 980 01:33:13.720 --> 01:33:16.960 was what thirteen fifty let's say, so, what's that five hundred and fifty 981 01:33:17.039 --> 01:33:24.760 years later, It's the same thing. They were both creating an essentially monotheistic 982 01:33:24.800 --> 01:33:28.119 religion. I mean, he was doing it a little bit more thorough, 983 01:33:28.199 --> 01:33:30.680 I think, than what she was doing. But look what happened to him. 984 01:33:30.960 --> 01:33:36.680 You know, eventually the Armaan priesthood right up against him, and you 985 01:33:36.760 --> 01:33:40.479 know, they get rid of him. And I think it was the same 986 01:33:40.520 --> 01:33:45.159 thing as what happened with Sobek Noofro. But it wasn't the Armaan religion this 987 01:33:45.279 --> 01:33:47.239 time. They were okay, they were they were they were okay with what 988 01:33:47.319 --> 01:33:53.800 was going on. I think that it was the priesthood of Heliopolis, the 989 01:33:53.840 --> 01:33:58.720 priests of artem Raw. They were the ones that rose up against her. 990 01:34:00.560 --> 01:34:03.960 Fascinating. Hey, best of luck, stay in touch and we'll catch you 991 01:34:04.079 --> 01:34:08.319 the next time. Will this time next year we'll be oh, we'll be 992 01:34:08.359 --> 01:34:13.319 talking about Karahan, I promise you. Okay, take care, right chased 993 01:34:13.399 --> 01:34:19.800 it. It's always good to hear from Andrew. He travels extensively into the 994 01:34:19.840 --> 01:34:26.119 Middle East, and he will be coming back to give us a report on 995 01:34:26.159 --> 01:34:31.119 another book that he's releasing probably in the next few months. On Karen Tepi, 996 01:34:32.039 --> 01:34:39.199 which is this new site in Turkey that is older than go Beckley Teppi, 997 01:34:39.359 --> 01:34:44.279 which I find fascinating. I mean, they've only uncovered a few of 998 01:34:44.319 --> 01:34:51.079 these subsurface temples, and each time they uncover one of the dating comes back 999 01:34:51.159 --> 01:34:56.720 older and older and older. I'm waiting for them to uncover a temple that's 1000 01:34:56.720 --> 01:35:00.720 like twenty thousand years old, not just twelve. And as you remember, 1001 01:35:00.359 --> 01:35:06.039 we had doctor Steeves on the program a few weeks ago and she's you know, 1002 01:35:06.119 --> 01:35:12.199 they're unveiling one hundred thousand, one hundred and fifty thousand year old Pleisticine 1003 01:35:12.760 --> 01:35:19.520 settlements and these are Ice age settlements that are inhabited by it looks like Homo 1004 01:35:19.560 --> 01:35:24.600 sapiens, you know. And so this is the kind of news that I 1005 01:35:24.680 --> 01:35:28.840 love. This is the kind of news that flies in the face of Orthodox 1006 01:35:29.439 --> 01:35:32.119 thinking. And you know, it's not to beat up on the Orthodox the 1007 01:35:32.199 --> 01:35:35.479 archaeologists. We have a lot of them on our program that our friends. 1008 01:35:36.199 --> 01:35:40.560 It's just the fact that they're just so closed down. And this is the 1009 01:35:40.640 --> 01:35:47.399 real problem with Egyptological views Egyptology. It's backwards and it doesn't really move forward. 1010 01:35:47.600 --> 01:35:56.119 That they're struggling under the weight of new revelations, new discoveries, and 1011 01:35:56.199 --> 01:36:01.720 I think in a mini way anyways, some of these dynastic ideas that are 1012 01:36:01.760 --> 01:36:06.319 in our history book need to be revised. And this is not going to 1013 01:36:06.399 --> 01:36:10.600 happen anytime soon. This is going to take, you know, the kicking 1014 01:36:10.640 --> 01:36:21.079 and screaming of archaeologists and egyptologists to finally release this data and the story being 1015 01:36:21.159 --> 01:36:28.039 retold, rewritten. It may be a new generation. We've had doctor Karakuney 1016 01:36:28.079 --> 01:36:32.800 on the program that flat out says Egyptology is dead. And if you don't 1017 01:36:32.800 --> 01:36:40.399 believe she said that, go back to I think it was July or June 1018 01:36:40.439 --> 01:36:45.399 of twenty twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen. Just look up Karakuney under Earth Ancients 1019 01:36:45.439 --> 01:36:53.119 dot com. And that first introduction to her work was not only eye opening, 1020 01:36:53.520 --> 01:36:59.039 but she's a professor of ancient studies at UCLA in California, and she's 1021 01:36:59.520 --> 01:37:03.600 telling it like it is. So it just takes time. It takes time 1022 01:37:03.640 --> 01:37:09.199 for these things to shift. By the way, I am leaving in a 1023 01:37:09.239 --> 01:37:13.960 couple of weeks, I leave April thirtieth and will be two weeks in Egypt. 1024 01:37:14.760 --> 01:37:19.359 I am making a special point of recording some of these megalithic temples look 1025 01:37:19.399 --> 01:37:24.279 sore. For one, I didn't have enough time. I was not feeling 1026 01:37:24.279 --> 01:37:27.239 well when I was there. I just didn't have the energy. But we're 1027 01:37:27.279 --> 01:37:31.960 gonna film some of the megaliths, the statuary, some of the flooring, 1028 01:37:32.920 --> 01:37:36.399 and then we're gonna spend a good deal of time, probably half a day 1029 01:37:36.399 --> 01:37:42.439 at half Or, which is in Dendera and in this one complex in this 1030 01:37:43.439 --> 01:37:47.560 where the half Or Temple is. It's on a major lay line an energy 1031 01:37:47.640 --> 01:37:53.600 geo magnetic field, and there's the half Or Temple, there's the best temple 1032 01:37:53.680 --> 01:38:00.680 that nobody talks about. There's the Isis Temple, and they all sit on 1033 01:38:00.760 --> 01:38:08.960 this megalithic, extremely old, heavy duty granite floor or foundation, and it's 1034 01:38:09.039 --> 01:38:15.119 all held together by these keys. And the keys are these metal locks that 1035 01:38:15.199 --> 01:38:20.840 pull these blocks together, but they're also used for conducting and when energy is 1036 01:38:20.840 --> 01:38:27.560 passed through the stones, these keys keep it moving from one to another, 1037 01:38:27.560 --> 01:38:33.600 so there's no offset. I am bringing my Trifield recorder, my Trifield meter 1038 01:38:33.760 --> 01:38:41.159 with me, and we're gonna measure and I'm going to record the higher fields. 1039 01:38:41.239 --> 01:38:45.760 The other thing I'm very excited to announce about the Half or temple at 1040 01:38:45.800 --> 01:38:50.640 Dendera Is there's a new crypt that's been opened up, and some of the 1041 01:38:50.680 --> 01:38:56.840 figurines are very anomalous. They look like they're wearing some kind of headgear that 1042 01:38:56.960 --> 01:39:00.359 isn't really well noted. They always say, well, it's shy monistic clothing 1043 01:39:00.520 --> 01:39:05.720 analogy. A lot of times. I've shown that in Mexico with the Maya, 1044 01:39:05.840 --> 01:39:10.960 so that look look for that, look for that in Um when I 1045 01:39:11.000 --> 01:39:16.239 come back, I'll be back at the third week of May, and this 1046 01:39:16.319 --> 01:39:19.479 is all going to be on Earth Ancients dot Com, but it's also going 1047 01:39:19.520 --> 01:39:25.079 to be on our Facebook page, and I want to mention our Facebook page 1048 01:39:25.319 --> 01:39:31.159 is constantly being updated with the latest reporting articles. Many of our authors, 1049 01:39:31.199 --> 01:39:36.479 many of the people who are on this program send us photographs, graphics, 1050 01:39:36.840 --> 01:39:45.800 images, a wide variety of content support that supports their presentation. And this 1051 01:39:45.880 --> 01:39:48.600 is where you can see these what we do what they call show notes for 1052 01:39:48.720 --> 01:39:54.800 each of the presenters, and there's usually a gallery between five and in some 1053 01:39:55.000 --> 01:40:01.640 cases are like twenty images that are from books from research and you should definitely 1054 01:40:01.680 --> 01:40:09.439 check it out because it's some of the materials and just fascinating. So so 1055 01:40:09.560 --> 01:40:13.880 yeah, I'm looking forward to our Egypt, to our I'm getting excited and 1056 01:40:14.079 --> 01:40:18.840 we're gonna have like thirty plus people to join us, and I will document 1057 01:40:18.880 --> 01:40:23.640 as much as I can. We're also going down a new shaft. I 1058 01:40:23.680 --> 01:40:26.520 didn't mention this. We're going down a new shaft. It's not new, 1059 01:40:26.560 --> 01:40:33.399 it's been open for a few months at the Sakara Dojor Pyramid and they're opening 1060 01:40:33.520 --> 01:40:39.279 up a whole labyrinth inside of the pyramid itself, but underneath it there's a 1061 01:40:39.319 --> 01:40:45.399 whole group of canals which are kind of like walkways. I call them canals, 1062 01:40:45.439 --> 01:40:49.640 but they're walkways that lead to these unusual rooms. We don't know what 1063 01:40:49.680 --> 01:40:55.239 there was used in these rooms, what was the purpose. Sometimes we find 1064 01:40:55.279 --> 01:41:00.000 mummies in there, sometimes we find artifacts. But it's a low process to 1065 01:41:00.199 --> 01:41:06.439 unopened, to open these canals, these shafts, and to discover these rooms. 1066 01:41:06.439 --> 01:41:10.920 And we're going to go into a whole section that's just recently been discovered, 1067 01:41:10.920 --> 01:41:16.439 so I'll be filming that. We're gonna film the South Tomb container, 1068 01:41:16.520 --> 01:41:23.239 which is actually some kind of a box that held some technology, megalithic box. 1069 01:41:23.880 --> 01:41:28.159 And then we're gonna go and we're gonna drive take the bus a few 1070 01:41:28.159 --> 01:41:34.840 miles down to Memphis and see this megalithic sculpture known as the Ramsey two sculpture. 1071 01:41:35.119 --> 01:41:42.640 And this thing weighs eight hundred tons single block of granite. And this 1072 01:41:42.720 --> 01:41:48.199 is one of these very very very finally cut sculptures that Chris Dunn believes is 1073 01:41:48.920 --> 01:41:54.640 cut from technology of some kind. And I'm gonna do what I can to 1074 01:41:54.800 --> 01:41:59.359 get real close to it and allow you to see it too. So lots 1075 01:41:59.439 --> 01:42:02.760 to it, are lots to film, lots to enjoy, and you're you're 1076 01:42:02.800 --> 01:42:08.640 there with me because I'll be recording a lot of this and you will make 1077 01:42:08.680 --> 01:42:13.680 it available on our website or the Ancients dot com, but will also make 1078 01:42:13.880 --> 01:42:17.960 an available on Facebook. And we have two Facebook pages. It's go to 1079 01:42:18.000 --> 01:42:21.760 Facebook. You can go to the group page, and then we have an 1080 01:42:21.760 --> 01:42:27.720 international page with serious researchers. We've got a lot of students, a lot 1081 01:42:27.760 --> 01:42:31.079 of professionals on that page. That's there are fan page. I think we 1082 01:42:31.199 --> 01:42:36.600 have in total about one hundred and fifty thousand people on that. The fan 1083 01:42:36.760 --> 01:42:44.880 page tends to have the white papers, the technical papers that are submitted to 1084 01:42:45.119 --> 01:42:53.279 publications like Nature other journals. So if you're interested in really drilling down on 1085 01:42:53.319 --> 01:42:57.439 a lot of the data that our presenters are talking about. That's where you 1086 01:42:57.479 --> 01:43:00.720 want to go. The other site I'm in is the group page that tends 1087 01:43:00.760 --> 01:43:08.760 to be very light most photos, mostly photos and interactions with other fans and 1088 01:43:08.880 --> 01:43:15.079 people who are really into the archaeological views of the past. So there you 1089 01:43:15.119 --> 01:43:18.319 go. Hey, we also have an Instagram page. Two. I don't 1090 01:43:18.319 --> 01:43:24.359 follow Twitter because I'm just I don't. I'm not interested. Sorry, But 1091 01:43:24.520 --> 01:43:30.119 Instagram tons of really cool photographs. Hey, if you're enjoying Earth Ancients in 1092 01:43:30.279 --> 01:43:36.600 our other podcast, Destiny and Earth Ancient Special Edition The Archives, please consider 1093 01:43:36.680 --> 01:43:42.800 supporting us through our Patreon page For as little as five dollars a month, 1094 01:43:43.399 --> 01:43:47.560 you support the work we do here at Earth Ancients, Destiny and the Archives. 1095 01:43:47.880 --> 01:43:53.319 It takes a lot of work, a lot of energy, and I 1096 01:43:53.399 --> 01:43:57.640 gotta tell you, we got a lot of really really great material coming up. 1097 01:43:57.680 --> 01:44:01.600 We have some shows that I've been mentioning. We have doctor John Branden 1098 01:44:01.640 --> 01:44:08.520 Brooks coming back on a program called Confessions of a NASA Scientists that is an 1099 01:44:08.520 --> 01:44:12.399 eye opener. He's going to spill the beans on Mars. We have a 1100 01:44:12.439 --> 01:44:17.960 new series called The Alien Experience with a number of people who have had physical 1101 01:44:18.319 --> 01:44:24.479 interactions with aliens, and this will include Whitley Strieber. He's got a new 1102 01:44:24.520 --> 01:44:30.159 book out, and a number of people who were featured in Bud hopkins book 1103 01:44:30.239 --> 01:44:33.399 Intruders. And if you don't know who Bud Hopkins is, he was one 1104 01:44:33.439 --> 01:44:42.680 of the top researchers about twenty years ago who began regressing people through hypnosis to 1105 01:44:42.800 --> 01:44:47.199 get at the bottom of their experiences with off world types. Those are just 1106 01:44:47.279 --> 01:44:53.800 some of the amazing and provocative programs we're developing here, and I gotta tell 1107 01:44:53.840 --> 01:44:57.720 you we love it. I got a great team. We love doing this, 1108 01:44:57.760 --> 01:45:00.680 but man does it cost money. So hey, five, ten, 1109 01:45:00.840 --> 01:45:05.720 fifteen, even twenty bucks a month really really makes a difference, and you 1110 01:45:05.760 --> 01:45:12.159 can really help us keep the lights on. To become a subscriber, go 1111 01:45:12.239 --> 01:45:18.119 to Patreon that's PA t R e o N dot com, Forward Slash Earth 1112 01:45:18.159 --> 01:45:23.720 Ancients. You register five, ten, fifteen, twenty, whatever, and 1113 01:45:24.439 --> 01:45:28.239 really really helps out. The money is deducted automatically, you don't have to 1114 01:45:28.279 --> 01:45:32.600 even think about it, and makes the lights makes everything happen. I want 1115 01:45:32.600 --> 01:45:38.319 to mention that we have a number of gifts and some of those gifts are 1116 01:45:38.680 --> 01:45:43.880 or up to I think about thirty two books, and these are digital books. 1117 01:45:44.199 --> 01:45:48.760 Many of our authors are gracious enough to allow us to post their latest 1118 01:45:48.840 --> 01:45:57.159 books and so you can download those. We have some unpublished interviews and some 1119 01:45:57.279 --> 01:46:04.199 galleries and it's really thank you from you to help us keep things going. 1120 01:46:04.439 --> 01:46:12.159 So Patreon dot com forward slash Earth Ancients, I'd really appreciate your help. 1121 01:46:15.000 --> 01:46:16.000 All right, that's it for this week. I want to thank my guest 1122 01:46:16.039 --> 01:46:23.119 today, Andrew Collins and his new book, The First Female Pharaoh. As 1123 01:46:23.159 --> 01:46:28.159 always, the team of Ruth Thomas and Mark Foster and everyone else who makes 1124 01:46:28.159 --> 01:46:32.720 this thing happen. You guys, Yeah, you guys rock. All right, 1125 01:46:32.720 --> 01:46:35.399 take care of you well and we will talk to you next time.