Come back to you, raised by a giant time writer, Lee, and
tonight we have an amazing interview for you, guys. I kind of stopped
doing interviews like this, but the opportunity came a knocking. And whom I
did two deny the universe right when such an amazing author is going to be
on your show. So tonight we have author Marine Sieberg. Her column in
Psychology Today was the first to report on the groundbreaking development surrounding hour. Since
she's a contributor to The New York Times, National Geographic, Huffington Post,
ESPN, the magazine Vogue, and many other outlets. She's appeared on CNN,
MPR, OPRAH Radio, MSNBC, and PBS. She lives in New
York City and her most recent book is Fearfully and Wonderfully Made the Astonishing News
Science of the Senses and will be available wherever books are sold on August eighth,
twenty twenty three. How's it one mine, Good to see you very
well, Thank you so much for this opportunity, and hello to your amazing
audience too. Thank you, Jess. I'm very excited too, and looking
forward to diving into consciousness and extra century perception with you here today, So
where I want to start is kind of jumped to the end of your book
here because in chapter thirteen of your book you say that the future is not
about robots, it's about us and achieving our human potential, which I absolutely
agree. But it really seems like something or someone is wanting to take a
shortcut route right and merge humans with synthetic AI robots, because I think it's
quite possible that someone is absolutely terrified of our human potential, right of our
natural abilities that each and every one of us have, and in order to
not let those abilities develop naturally and organically, they're going to introduce a human
robot augmentation so that we can be controlled, so that it can be controlled.
What's your thoughts on that, Well, I'm not aware of any plans,
but the extent that our sensory capabilities have recently been shown to be much
greater than anyone had any idea would strike fear in the heart of anyone trying
to control humanity, because we are just exquisite human beings. One of my
mentors is a forty year mit anthropologist who just knows all the exceptional performers are
on the world, all the Chi Gong masters and the elite Lamas and everything,
and he says we are the finest technology on the planet. And this
is not a man who does not also know about a eye in robotics and
everything else. He says, absolutely not, no machine can match us.
We are soft tissue high technology. It's right here. What I was referring
to mostly was Elon Musk neural Lincoln plans, but his branch he just for
human experimentation for his stripping plants. And I mean, Elon is visionary and
interesting in his way, but didn't he just heard a bunch of monkeys trying
to test all of this, So I'm not sure how he even managed approval
for human trials. Yeah, and something really interesting in your book as well,
as you kind of cover all of the human senses, right, the
importance of human senses, and that everything that's been attributed to the animal kingdom,
we also have within us humans. Humans outperformed dogs and rats and mice
and laboratories. In many instances. Humans can follow a scent trail on their
hands and knees like a hound. They've tested this, So, um,
it's really Victorian era myth that we are not animals and super predators among them.
We reign supreme over the animal kingdom. And I like to say,
if you don't believe me, read the headlines. But we're feral in all
the wrong ways. As far as I'm concerned, I agree. And the
first one that you cover is smell, right, And I think that's just
a very important superhuman ability, because I think that our ability is that ability
is very underutilized by humans, but it is underutilized. And I speak to
this really cool professor of sensory cognition, David House in the book you probably
remember him, and he says, you know, the nose has been kept
down too long. What is all this deodorizing and reodorizing we put our bodies
through? Isn't it peculiar? And he notes that all the perfumes are really
floral, except for something like opium, and they don't move the parameters much.
And it's even as there's a sensory renaissance going on in research and even
in business, there's this homogenization that's at work too, So it's really you
know, they used to think we could smell ten thousand things, which is
a lot I don't I don't even know if I can name ten thousand things,
but recent studies prove it's a trillion. And smell olfaction is so tied
to memory it goes straight to our memory banks. That's why Rust wrote of
the madaline and his aunt eating a madeleine. Could he book memories of Sundays
with his aunt? It just turns the memories right on. So gas smell
is incredible. And I think you remember the woman I spoke with named Joy
Milne in the book. She's a super smeller. She's a retired Scottish nurse
and grandmother and she smelled her husband's body order change and this was six years
before he developed Parkinson's disease. And at first she thought, well, he's
sweating because he works really long hours as an anesthesiologist, but freshly showered he
smelled bad. So she finally convinced researchers to take a look at it.
And sure enough, she's a super smeller, and they with researchers, she
isolated the molecules in the sea bum on your back, in the back of
your neck and running down, which is a really telling area for illness apparently,
and now they know the molecular biomarkers for Parkinson's and they can identify it
as soon as ten years, as many as ten years earlier than before,
which is not a cure, of course, but it means that doctors can
intervene early and provide really good supportive care and keep an eye on such folks.
And she's also working on cancer detection, tuberculosis detection, and COVID.
She can smell COVID, so you know, in another scenario, in less
enlightened circles, it would be about artificial means of doing this or something mechanical.
But it's just a woman who loved her husband who noticed he had changed.
What's more beautiful than that, that's nature And now she's helping a lot
of people. Yeah, I feel like the emphasis isn't put on human beings
enough, like people have you know, you always hear the stories of like
dogs doing that for humans, like acting really strange around them and sniffing out
cancer before the cancer actually develops. Something apead owner goes to the hospital and
realize that they have a really bad illness. Yeah, which is not to
put down our loyal companions, right, I know you don't mean it that
way, but first, well, there is a reason and I'll say it
now. The reason we became separated, compartmentalized from the rest of nature was
that in the nineteenth century a scientist named Paul broke Up came had a theory
that humans had really small old factory bulbs, and we don't in absolute terms,
meaning compared to the size of our body, their law as large or
larger than dogs and other animals. But he popularized this erroneous idea, and
even Sigmund Freud got behind him. Insert Joe Kier. So all this uptight
Victorian era stuff was the context, and like, oh, no, you
can't be animalistic, you're human. You're something separate, something special, something
not as base, and in fact we are just animals in the end.
Yes, And I thought it was interesting that you brought up earlier a smell
of like memory, right, because I know that everyone is listening. I
know for sure that you have smelled something that triggers you back to like your
child. Huh. I'll get that instance all the time, Like I'll be
walking through the store, the grocery store, and I'll get a whiff of
something and then automatically I'm back to like seven or eight years old. Yeah,
something mom or Grandma made right, or Dad, It's astonishing how instant
it is. It just transports you. And so in that in that chapter,
that first chapter you've referenced about smell, what I'm really trying to show
is that these are myths, that we are not powerful, that we are
not capable, that we do not have instincts and validate things like you just
said, now that you've personally experienced it, and we need to start a
conversation about our senses and these impressions. So I moved from joy Milne in
that chapter, the wonderful woman who's helping with Parkinson's and other things, to
a mom of four named Carrie Barcombe in Pennsylvania. She's a phenomenal painter,
and one of her friends noticed that she smells a lot of things Carrie does,
and she told her about Joy Milne, the grandma helping with Parkinson's,
and Carrie just flashed back through her whole life and realized, Ah, yes,
I smell something sour when my children are getting stomach viruses. I smell
burning in my mouth when I'm getting a cavity, etc. And I say,
please think of me the author as the friend who tells Carrie I believe
you. This is true, This is possible. Have you ran into anybody
that has all of these exture sensory perceptions are like full tilt, Like their
vision is amazing, their curing is amazing, their smell is amazing. In
their taste, I actually haven't run into someone with all five senses on that
level, but often smell and taste go together. And I'm sure that makes
sense to you. So I interview a couple of Somalias the book, and
they are super smellers and super tasters. But one thing everyone seems to have
in common among people with great senses is they are sinnisthats. There are people
who have bonus sensory impressions for their traditional senses. So, for example,
I'm a sinnisthat. If I see five on the front page of the New
York Times, the numeral, it's black on a beige background, but it's
also navy blue. And I happen to have tetrachromacy or supercolor vision. We've
been led to believe that we always see a certain percentage of the light spectrum.
And in your book, and you just mentioned that you have a extra
sensory color perception. Yeah, I have four. I have a mutation in
my eyes and I have four cone classes for color perception instead of three,
so I see like a bird and just this massive spectrum. And that manifests
in interesting ways because my whole life was like the what color is the dress?
Internet flame war. I never agree with people about what color things are,
so it was this theme my entire life until And it's very symbolic too,
I think, because the testing for this was only available recently, right,
and I recognized myself in a podcast on Radio Lab that interviewed another woman
with it. It's very rare, but we're finally coming into this sensory renaissance
and it's possible to get tested for such things. And I wonder how many
more are out there, you know, not only vision, but all the
senses, but who either don't get the validation they need right or they or
it might not be rising to conscious awareness, or it's dismissed somehow. But
I think people, as Marvin Gay said, we're all sensitive people. And
I think just starting the conversation is going to make people aware what's going on
in their own bodies because we don't really talk about it that much. Now,
do you think that there. You have a whole chapter in your book
pertaining to consciousness. Do you think that there are extrasensory consciousness that you can
like remote viewing? Right, I'm sure you're familiar. What's your thoughts and
theories on remote viewing? Well? I, in fact, I'm speaking at
the International Remote Viewing Association event next month in Charlottesville. I'm fascinated by all
of that. I know it's real. I've seen it demonstrated, I've tried
it myself, and I believe that's the frontier. So the question is are
our senses so powerful? Right? So what are we talking about here?
We can see light at the level of a single photon, smell a trillion
things we've talked about. We can hear sounds with amplitude smaller than an atom,
and hearing is our most wide ranging sense too. Twenty hurts up to
twenty thousand. We have a new set of not new, but discovered set
of taste buds for fresh water sounds like a good idea mother nature, right
and out at out At the University of California, they gave people two pieces
of silicon smooth silicon only, except on one they bound an extra layer of
molecules to it. People can feel that with their bare fingertips. So these
are the newly adjusted traditional sensory potentials which go into the quantum and proven in
laboratories. So I think it should give more credence and more interest to remote
sensing, which for those I doubt there's a single person in your audience who
doesn't know this, but in case, a person who would not have to
be in the same location as the stimulus or even necessarily the same era of
time. And if our traditional senses are operating on this minuscule and quantum in
many cases scales, why not. I have a very open mind about such
things, and I've also been privileged to see it demonstrated and really mind blowing
ways. There's an argument that is well not really an argument, but a
discrepancy within the remote viewing community. But a lot of people have different thoughts
and ideas about how it works. Some people think that it's a separation of
consciousness, that your consciousness is separating from your body and that's how you're able
to remote view and see things that are not even close to where you are
in your immediate vicinity. And other people think that it's within you that you're
going into such a deep self hypnosis or a deep meditative state that you're actually
seeing the things outside of yourself within yourself. How do you think remote viewing
actually works? I am not sure which is the thesis I would lean toward.
I'd love to learn more about the two points of view. But if
you ask the way I think it works, I prefer the term remote sensing
because in my own experience and those of people I've interviewed, it's never just
the third eye. Someone might feel a change of temperature on their arm,
smell something, tastes something, pardon me, hear something, So it's all
the Claire's right, it's clairvoyance, clair audience, all of it. So
I think if I were to give a definition of any sort of it,
I would insist on saying it's remote sensing, and people need to use their
entire bodies, because it's not just visual. And could it be some sort
of loosening of the etheric body or some sort of thing where like an NDE
or an obe where people have awareness outside of their own immediate environment. Perhaps.
I mean, I just hope this all gets researched more and more and
more, because I think I think the mind is the true spaceship, going
back to Elon and his death march to Mars, right, I think that
it's all about developing our minds. I think so too. I agree with
that, And I think the space is the space and our behind our eyes
and in front of our ears, right, and that is the space that
needs to be explored. But to your thought and your idea about indies and
out of body experiences, that's a common thread that I've seen with a lot
of these remote viewers, especially the most prolific remote viewers of our time,
like Ingo Swan. He always talked about whenever he was younger, he would
always constantly have these out of body experiences like death experiences, right, And
that's a common thing that I've found within researching this and talking to a lot
of the remote viewers that were from the official the IA Army Intelligence Remote Viewing
program, was a lot of them had near death experiences or a lot of
them had out of body experiences whenever they were younger. So I think that
there's a connection there between and a lot of people will refute this. A
lot of the people, the researchers of remote viewing that I've had on my
show. They refute that idea that somehow the out of body experience or near
death experience was a trigger for them unlocking that ability. They all say,
no, it's not connected at all, But I think that it is.
I think that it's a jump start for them to unlock that potential within them.
I think that everyone has the potential to be able to remove you and
have these extrasensory perceptions, but it takes some kind of trauma or some sort
of out of body experience that might be induced by trauma like Ingo Swan being
bullied because he was gay whenever he was younger, and that induces this out
of body experience, and somehow that out of body experience unlocks the potential to
have these extrasensory perception abilities. It may be the case. I haven't really
delved into that research, but I think it's quite possible. And another aspect
of that, which is related to NDEs OBEs is I've interviewed Ed May several
times, the former head of Stargate, and Joe mcmonagle his top viewer,
a top sensor, and they tell me the top people in that program,
including Joe, were sinnisthemes. They were all people who had this hyper connected
brain with extra bonus senses, seeing color when listening to music, seeing color
when they read or look at numbers. So there's ed is in fact still
working on a model about out this. But it may have something to do
with the hyperconnectivity of sinnisthets minds because we're all born cinisthetes according to research,
but at four months a pruning goes on of the neurons in the brain.
For most people and cinnisthetes, the pruning never happens. So just like a
baby is a sponge and takes everything, everything, everything in, I think
that might have a factor, may play a factor. And to bring back
in your nd ob fascinating theory. Many cinnisthetes have OBEs and many people who
have NDEs come back as cynisthetes. And we're never synisthats before. And I
would like to point to the work of pmh at Water about all of that.
She's done incredible work logging all the cases. And one other thing Joe
mcmonagall told me, he said, synesthtates are the shamans. They're the shamans
of viewer and we you know, we don't have a context for it in
most modern circles now, right unfortunately, But that's who they were through history.
There's actually this document that I wanted to show because I've been telling people
about this document forever now and this is a good opportunity to show it.
And it's the Syndicate Document. This is a Syndicate document which was an SRI
document in seventy three, and people this is a very difficult document to get
ahold of. Some people have never even seen it, let alone have access
to it. And Syndicate was an SRI program that was funded by the CIA.
And this goes into Ingo Swan and Pat Price's remote viewings of this base
that they found that base in West Virginia, right that that pretty much put
remote viewing on the map. And this is Ingo Swan's depiction and drawing of
that military base in West Virginia. But the fascinating part was after they gave
it to Pat Price, and then Pat Price came up with a very detailed,
much more detailed which is here. And he's describing here the weather that
it's cloudy, that it's rainy, that the temperature and the altitude and all
of this stuff and then how put Off gives it to him again, and
then he describes to try and get classified information. He gets the names of
the facility that was there. He said that it sounded like what it seemed
like, hay fork or haystack. And then he saw these, uh these
papers on a desk that said fly trap and I can't mine run. The
texas really small, it's difficult for me to read it. And then he
got the operation of the facility, which went under code names, which was
revolved around pool, which was q ball, fourteen ball, four ball,
eight ball, and rack up. And he also got the names of the
generals that was at this top secret military base that absolutely in the world even
knew about. So that's how amazing remote viewing is and how amazing and reading
through all these documents, like I have all of the government remote viewing documents,
the sun Streak documents, Girl Flamed documents, Syndicate documents, Stargate documents.
I've read through all of them. People that don't necessarily believe in this
type of ability, I tell them, while the government shure believed in it
program, right, did it go black? I don't know, you know,
they closed stargate, But there's no shortage of remote sensors getting trained in
America on an ongoing basis. And if it's not the government, it's Wall
Street, right, it's um business everywhere. A lot of people are highly
paid remote sensors. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's at right. So
this is the frontier. It's really interesting. So do you think kids are
more like susceptible to these abilities such as extrasensory taste, extrasensory smell, extrasensory
hearing, and envision and touch. Do you think that they're more adaptive to
that kind of ability? And then it kind of gets dumbed down in a
certain way or pushed to the background as they get older through social norms and
things like that. They don't talk about it, so therefore doesn't develop.
As you're absolutely right. I think we are born perfect, even people with
challenges have many corners of perfection in their sensori and other cultures besides the West,
excuse me, besides the United States. I shouldn't say the West,
because in France they train children beautifully in the senses from a very young age.
So it's about opening up. But the senses are also plastic. So
even if we didn't get a good sensory education as children, we can do
so as adults. So an adult can necessary it, could be trained to
pick up on things they normally wouldn't realize. That's what you're saying. Yes,
Yes, I give the example of a scientist who worked in the Monnell
Center in Philadelphia, and he volunteered to work with a really unpleasant solution because
he literally could not genetically smell it. Half of humans can't. And after
several weeks exposure, he too began to smell the chemicals. So it's about
exposure in a big way. It's about aware, it's about practice. Joey
Milne, who can smell covid and cancer and tuberculosis and Parkinson's told me smell
everything twice at least when you smell it an aroma inhale it twice, and
she talks about how that aids your memory of it and your ability to smell
it and recall it and identify it. Do you have any opinions, I
suppose on the UFO and extraterrestrial phenomenon in is there any connections here between your
research and anything to do with extraterrestrials or UFOs. I didn't get into it
in this book because there was just so much not because I don't believe it's
a valient topic, but it's interesting because my editor asked me about ufology at
one point over lunch, and my response to her is my response to you,
I believe it's a type of sensing like any other. The experiencers are
usually sensitive people. And then when you look at Kick Green's research with the
caught a putamen and brainwaves, etc. There are physiological differences and experiencers,
there are brainwave differences. So there's even DNA marker, right, They've found
a DNA marker. So I believe that's also a frontier of sensory awareness some
people. Even though look at Chris Bledsoe, for example, he knows when
they're coming in. It's not just that he experiences it, he predicts it.
So that that would be an amazing area for them to open up a
whole lot of research. More research they've begun. Yeah, that's that was
kind of the thought on the tip of my tongue while reading your book,
and I was kind of not disappointed, but because the UFO phenomena and actually,
treshural phenomena is such a big topic right now in the space exactly,
And yeah, there was just so much to cover, but perhaps a future
work. It's a valid point. Race. George Orwell wrote in nineteen eighty
four that the party's chief goal was to make you not believe your own eyes
and ears chief goal. So the better we manage our own senses, the
better off we are. And I'm not just talking about Orwellian scenarios. I
mean it's good for our survival. The first IQ tests were measurements of the
senses, not of cognitive ability other than that, but they discarded them because
they couldn't predict academic achievement. And now that we're in a world where maybe
it's better idea to go to a trade school in terms of academic achievement,
or maybe it's better to be an entrepreneur or what have you. I think
with the emphasis moving away from traditional intelligence, perhaps we'll get to a place
where people like joy Milne who can smell disease are considered the geniuses. Yeah,
there was a huge shift into testing and academically scoring bowl I mean,
I don't even think in some states they even have any form of pe anymore
like there's not any movement. It's just like you're a prisoner in a classroom
for eight hours a day, every day thoughtful and as you know in the
book, I talk about how that dulls the senses. The EPA did a
study that determined Americans, and subsequent studies added Canadians and Europeans too. International
studies spend ninety percent of their lives indoors. And as I say in the
book, you know, we pitied the caged bird, the shelter dog,
the elephant in the circus, and and we do this to ourselves willfully.
What is that? It's it's it's I can't believe I'm out every day.
I'm a burder. Do you think that that's due to technology on the beach?
Pardon? Do you think that that's due to technology? There's technological adiment.
It could be. Yeah, we're all chained to our screens now and
our phones, and but I think it's also like, um, I don't
know, it's quote unquote civilization, right, we built cities and we hidden
side, but it's not our nature as animals. It's interesting because whenever you
go out and you walk around and you there seems to be a lack of
confidence within a lot of people. Right. They're always looking down, they're
never looking ahead, they're never looking up, They're never looking at the sky.
And I think that's the most fascinating part about nature, is the sky
and what we're in and what we're doing. They're very unaware of their surroundings
and what's going on in their reality. They're focused looking down, looking at
their phone, or looking at their feet as they walk instead of looking up.
I'm so happy to hear you say this because this is actually one of
the main parts of the conversation. I hope the book ignites how are we
living? What are we doing? Is this why the environment is a mess
because we never go in the environment, so we don't care what happens outside.
Probably that's part of it. And you know my affection for birds through
my work as a photographer. I'm also a photographer. We've lost a third
of them since the nineteen seventies due to environmental problems. So it can only
help us, it can only help all of creation to live more naturally and
out of doors more often and get in judge with our senses. Because,
in addition to the ninety percent of Westerners holding up inside. There's other research.
Researchers looked at indigenous hunter gatherers in Malaysia, tested their ability to smell,
tested their ability to name colors. They were much better at it than
the rest of us. So, yeah, I know it's hard to live
the hutway where we can all go find an island somewhere, But we certainly
can be out of doors more often than we are. Yeah, we can
take our shoes off and walking around in the grass with our bare feet.
I do that ground ourselves to the earth. Like it seems like that people
would rather, you know, these days, would rather film something on their
phone than actually experience or even help somebody that's in trouble. They would rather
film the fight or film someone instead of jumping in and breaking up. Or
they would rather film someone drowning in a pool than actually jump in and save
them. Yeah, there's some kind of disconnect that goes on where we can't
we can't separate fact from fiction. So I don't know. I don't think
it's the media necessarily driving that, although consumerism drives that right, and advertising
in media has a lot to do with that. But this this idea that
we need to be inside, and not seeing the sun or the sky or
each other is kind of twisted. I'm a journalist and I'm not naive to
that. I think it's terribly naive not to think there are However, it's
early, and I think this research came out all at once and kind of
surprised everyone, and I wanted to get out ahead of any anything negative associated
with this and raise people's awareness. So I'm very grateful for the opportunity to
publish with a major publisher and talk with thoughtful people like you about it,
because I want people to know. I say in the book, it's like
finding out the oil painting your grandmother willed to you is an old master,
except you are the painting. You're much finer than you know. People are
magnificent, beyond measure. And then that brings in the question to have we
done this to ourselves? Right, because I think that people always want some
sort of outside force that's manipulating people and you know, making them do a
certain thing, when really that's our responsibility. You know, no one can
really tell us to take responsibility, which is not to say there isn't propaganda
in the world, and there isn't there aren't efforts to control humanity, however,
Yeah, we need to step up and take responsibility for ourselves and work
on our own bodies and minds. You know, we're fortunate, you and
I we live in the Internet age. So much is available on podcasts like
yours and in all sorts of formats. So I really hope people get the
chance to do more with their senses. Yeah, I agree, absolutely,
and they can definitely pick up your book. Where is it going to It's
going to be released in August correct, August eighth, Tuesday, August eighth.
It's available for pre order down online on the McMillan website, which is
the parent company to Saint Martin's Press, my publisher, on Amazon, on
all sorts of good websites. And I have a website for the book.
It's my name Maureen Sieberg dot com, and I welcome anyone to write me
there. I'd love to hear what people's experiences are with their own senses,
because I am sure they're incredibly varied and interesting, and I'd love to hear
from your viewers. Yes. Absolutely. The links to her website will be
in the description of this video. Thanks so much. For coming on and
speaking with me about this. I recommend my recommend her book that it will
be out and all guess so, can they get to that through your website
as well? Yes, absolutely the pre order preorder there's a pre ordered link
on the homepage. Awesome things, So much and thanks for everyone watching and
listening. Much love to everyone in the chat. Please be sure to hit
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war on humanity. Stay aware, stay alert, keep loving your heart for
everyone, Stay safe out there, and if you can see through the illusion,
you are the solution. See you guys next time.