1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:06,599 You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio 2 00:00:06,759 --> 00:00:17,839 in the UK and around the world. Hello world, You're listening to Eleanor 3 00:00:17,879 --> 00:00:23,719 Wagner's strange and scary world here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network, where we're 4 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:29,199 always creeping it real. I'm your host, Eleanor Wagner. Welcome all to 5 00:00:29,359 --> 00:00:34,399 my paranormal Closet, where the stories and magic take place. Today's guest is 6 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:39,119 Well Burst in science and a supernatural, demonology and history of the occult, 7 00:00:39,359 --> 00:00:43,640 as well as theology in physics, among other things. She is an archbishop, 8 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,719 author and speaker, wife, mother, and a paranormal investigator. She 9 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:54,119 is a consultant for MGM Studios and has been featured in numerous documentaries and podcasts, 10 00:00:54,159 --> 00:01:00,359 including The Attached on Amazon Prime, which has won seventeen international film making 11 00:01:00,359 --> 00:01:04,879 awards. Please join me and welcoming Reverend Mother Christina Rake. Thank you very 12 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:10,280 much. I'm fascinated by all these topics and I'm curious as to how you 13 00:01:10,359 --> 00:01:14,920 got so interested and involved with them all, Like, what's the difference between 14 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:19,599 the traditional Catholic Church and the international independent Catholic Church. Well, our group, 15 00:01:19,719 --> 00:01:26,120 our movement. We're really a movement, and it's called the Independent Sacramental 16 00:01:26,439 --> 00:01:30,840 Movement. And you know how Eastern Orthodox churches go all the way back to 17 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:36,480 the apostles, but they're not under the pope. We're the same. If 18 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:41,560 you trace us back, you can trace back all the ordinations and laying on 19 00:01:41,599 --> 00:01:45,200 of hands back to an apostle. For myself, it would be Philip and 20 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:51,439 Bartholomew. However, because we're not under the jurisdiction of the pope, were 21 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:57,760 like those like the Greek Orthodox Church or the Anglican Church who broke away in 22 00:01:57,799 --> 00:02:04,519 the eighteenth century. And so because we're not legally under the authority of Rome, 23 00:02:04,879 --> 00:02:10,479 we can ordain women. We are inclusive of the LGBTQ community and actually 24 00:02:10,599 --> 00:02:17,400 work for equal rights for them, and so we have that freedom to marry 25 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:24,400 the ancient religion with more open sensibilities. What I explain to people is I'm 26 00:02:24,719 --> 00:02:34,240 theologically traditional but socially progressive as it should be. Yes, exactly, you 27 00:02:34,319 --> 00:02:38,479 have some experience dealing with haunted attachments. Can you explain to my listeners exactly 28 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:43,719 what that means? Well, they think about it this way. We all 29 00:02:43,759 --> 00:02:46,280 collect things. You can see behind me, I collect things. Things have 30 00:02:46,439 --> 00:02:52,919 power, their history has power. Your mother's wedding ring has some kind of 31 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:59,080 power to it has this emotional attachment to it. And people, over time 32 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:06,639 using objects, sometimes our attachment to the object is so strong that in the 33 00:03:06,759 --> 00:03:12,039 afterlife there's an actual signature to the attachment. I mean, as psychic mediums 34 00:03:12,039 --> 00:03:17,039 call it telemetry, the the ability to read an object. And some objects, 35 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:23,599 over time get so imbued with either what we would call residue, spiritual 36 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:30,759 residue, or even curses or some kind of magical spell upon them, or 37 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:38,360 some kind of emotional codependence that the object itself becomes imbued with that, and 38 00:03:38,039 --> 00:03:43,000 in order to remove that, we have to take the object and we have 39 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,199 to perform some kind of religious rite on it. For me, that would 40 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:52,360 be a Catholic blessing. Every blessing is literally theologically an exorcism. Every time 41 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,560 I bless holywater, it's an exorcism. Every time MY bless your house, 42 00:03:54,599 --> 00:04:00,919 it's an exorcism because the process is to sort of push God in and pull 43 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:06,159 out any of the dusty residue. Some objects, their attachments are much more 44 00:04:06,199 --> 00:04:12,240 difficult to deal with than others. Some I wouldn't even mess with my plan. 45 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,319 Don't burn them, bury them. For me, it's throw them in 46 00:04:15,399 --> 00:04:20,240 water. It's sink them to the bottom. That's the best course of action 47 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:25,600 because they really shouldn't be touched otherwise. So suffice it to say, it's 48 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:32,079 probably common that they're more negative energies attachments to them than positive. I think 49 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:38,480 the negative ones get more pressed. Oh okay, you don't like your heirlooms 50 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:46,079 or your greatgrandmother's diary. Those have positive attached them. But those memories call 51 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:56,399 me in for those. I know from writing my books that the antique shops 52 00:04:56,439 --> 00:05:02,160 in town in my county they specifically stage anything that they bring into their shops 53 00:05:02,199 --> 00:05:08,600 because they've had experiences when they haven't done so where things have reacted in their 54 00:05:08,639 --> 00:05:15,720 building or created energies they weren't really interested in participating in. So they made 55 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,040 it a habit of every time they picked up something that they would sage it 56 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,360 before they even sold this to somebody. I personally love antiques, I love 57 00:05:20,399 --> 00:05:25,079 antiquing, I love collecting stuff, and I too stage them before I bring 58 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:30,839 them into my home. And if, for some strange coincidence, forgot to 59 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:32,399 do it and something happens in my house, then I've got a sage to 60 00:05:32,399 --> 00:05:38,879 the whole house and do all that. But yeah, it's so important because 61 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:44,639 scientifically, if you think about a sort of energy locus, that focal point 62 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:49,399 of that object, if there's a soul that's hanging around, it'll stay with 63 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:56,519 that object and you wind up with the attachment. My next question, can 64 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,560 people have attachment? So you're saying that that's how people can have attachment happened 65 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,720 to them because they've brought in something that has been drawn to them in suddenly 66 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:12,759 that way. And I think it's important to distinguish an attachment from a possession. 67 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,399 An attachment in Judaism, a dibbic is an attachment. It's not a 68 00:06:16,439 --> 00:06:21,120 demon. It's an attachment. It's a human soul that is sort of clinging 69 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:26,920 to you. And you can tell it's an attachment because it's sudden you come 70 00:06:26,959 --> 00:06:30,480 home from the antique shop and you're like, I don't a cigarette. I've 71 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,800 never had a cigarette in my life. You know, you feel it immediately, 72 00:06:32,879 --> 00:06:38,399 You feel this emotional presence around you. And it can come that way. 73 00:06:38,399 --> 00:06:44,079 It can come from you going to a place where you and whatever spirit 74 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,759 is there have a connection, be like horseback riding, they let horseback riding, 75 00:06:48,079 --> 00:06:51,600 and they can kind of see it in you, and so they follow 76 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:58,800 you. Because if a soul is earthbound, imagine being in a fever filled, 77 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,000 hazy, strange dream. They're completely unaware, but they're like, oh 78 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:11,240 and just kindactylieron and commonality. So I'm sure that there are obvious connections and 79 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,519 obvious signs when somebody has an attachment, but I'm sure that there are so 80 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:20,279 many people that go without even realizing they have an attaption. Or if you 81 00:07:20,399 --> 00:07:26,319 notice a change in somebody that you're with. For example, if I notice 82 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,720 a change in somebody that is in my family and they were one way at 83 00:07:30,759 --> 00:07:34,920 one point, and then all of a sudden, something happened and they were 84 00:07:34,959 --> 00:07:40,959 totally this different person and they spew these things that you don't even know where 85 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,920 they're coming from. Could that mean that they have an attachment of some sort? 86 00:07:46,639 --> 00:07:49,920 It could, And whenever there's a sudden personality change, I explained to 87 00:07:49,959 --> 00:07:55,639 be because I study neuroscience, I'm like, go to a neurologist, because 88 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:00,839 lots of other biological things can cause that. But let's say you go and 89 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:05,079 there's no brain tumor, there's no damage there's no aneurysm, there's there's nothing, 90 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,000 no hormonal issues, there's no liver issues, issues caused dementia, so 91 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:15,399 there's there's none of that going on. That's the point at which she turned 92 00:08:15,399 --> 00:08:22,079 to the spiritual. However, the spiritual remedy for an attachment is really easy, 93 00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:28,360 so you can try that too. And but which is what what's the 94 00:08:28,399 --> 00:08:31,959 remedy? Well, the remedy would be for someone who knows how to like 95 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,840 see, I'm a psychic medium. I don't prefer that term, but I 96 00:08:35,879 --> 00:08:39,519 can see the attachment. I can see where it's sort of in the body. 97 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:45,039 It looks to me like a tick like thing. So I'll say the 98 00:08:45,159 --> 00:08:46,960 person, I'll look at the picture and be like, you're having pain in 99 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:54,919 your neck because I can tell it's holding look at a photograph and oh that's 100 00:08:54,480 --> 00:09:01,399 I gifts or are visual to connect, but they're auditory and visual, so 101 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,000 I can hear entire sentences and stuff. So I can look at the photo 102 00:09:05,039 --> 00:09:07,799 and be like, you're having pain here here shit, and they're like, 103 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,519 how did you know that? I'm like that, don't seeing connected? And 104 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:18,919 then I pull it off. I use I use my spirituality, which I'm 105 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:24,399 grounded in my belief system, and I use that to pull it off. 106 00:09:24,039 --> 00:09:28,320 It doesn't I don't want to say it doesn't matter. You have to choose 107 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:33,639 a spirituality, but you have to practice it for years and years and years 108 00:09:33,639 --> 00:09:37,919 and years to be growled with faith that grand faith, right, and intention 109 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:46,080 are the entirety of spirituality. Yeah, so I will pull it off and 110 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:52,240 sort of call in help to send it on its way, to kind of 111 00:09:52,399 --> 00:09:56,519 waken it to the fact that, yeah, you're dead, you place you 112 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:01,559 want to go to, let's send off there. And like the dibbic boxes, 113 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,919 that's a ritual in Judaism to pull a human attachment off of a person. 114 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,039 It's so amazing. Can you share a case or two with us? 115 00:10:11,039 --> 00:10:16,759 I'll give it a name. Yeah. I had a family member who is 116 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:24,759 very gifted. Also, he got the family curses the right exactly. And 117 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,559 I don't recall what city he was. I believe it was DC on a 118 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:35,519 trip with college and he was in a museum of Crime, so I know 119 00:10:35,759 --> 00:10:41,200 it was a big one. And they were walking down a hallway and they 120 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:48,639 passed by. They had John Wayne Gacy's clown outfit. They had implements of 121 00:10:48,919 --> 00:10:52,519 torture and everything. And it was a particular hallway. He was with his 122 00:10:52,639 --> 00:10:56,320 friend and he looked down the corner and he just saw something flipped past his 123 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:01,639 eye. He said, by the time he got to the top, he 124 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:11,200 felt like complete hopelessness, utter blackness, rage, and he couldn't shake it. 125 00:11:11,759 --> 00:11:16,279 And so he texted me and he's like, height, I think something 126 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,159 grabbed me there. And I'm like, well, if anything was going to 127 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,840 grab you'd be there, and so I said, right now, take a 128 00:11:22,879 --> 00:11:26,039 picture, texted to me, and he did, and I'm like, oh, 129 00:11:26,159 --> 00:11:31,840 geez, I mean he had as close to a human demon figure as 130 00:11:31,879 --> 00:11:35,919 you can get. And so I pulled it off of them and an hour 131 00:11:37,039 --> 00:11:41,519 later he was fine and it never happened again. So that's how you know 132 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,039 it's an attachment. You're in a place where you could possibly get an attachment, 133 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:50,519 and boom, it's instantaneous. It's not the slow breakdown of a possession. 134 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,559 It's just like that. Here's another question for you. So you know 135 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,840 the Long Island medium, right, she goes out and she sees these people 136 00:11:56,879 --> 00:12:01,039 and she's drawn to go to them. And this is what I do. 137 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,759 And would you like for me to share with you do you see these attachments 138 00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:09,080 on people and go off to them and tap them on the shoulder and say, 139 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:16,039 okay, why I don't look unless you're asked to. My gift is 140 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:22,159 deliberately shut down since I was ordained and became a bishop. Not in the 141 00:12:22,279 --> 00:12:28,000 sense that I can't use it, but when you have that connection to people, 142 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,519 I don't care how much you think you protect yourself, things can come 143 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,600 through that wire, just like oh you set it on and off that well 144 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:41,879 is what you're saying exactly. But I don't talk about no choice. I 145 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:46,679 actually had an interesting story that I can share later where someone else saw what 146 00:12:46,799 --> 00:12:52,759 happens to me because I couldn't tell from my position outward. But I also 147 00:12:52,919 --> 00:12:58,639 wouldn't do that. I just wouldn't because what she does irritates me because it's 148 00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:03,000 emotion, you know, hijacking. You're going about your day and someone walks 149 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,600 up to you and says, oh, you know your father who died. 150 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,600 I don't know where that person is in their life and their psychology and their 151 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:16,000 spirituality, what they have to do with their day. I think that's a 152 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,720 horrible thing to do to a person, you know. Invitation, I said, 153 00:13:20,919 --> 00:13:28,919 intention and will but invitation is another huge element to spirituality, and I 154 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:39,039 will not invade someone's psychological makeup right at their invitation. Interesting, huh okay, 155 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,240 I totally get the why you have why it shuts off and on because 156 00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:48,000 of the position that you're in and you could have something negative try and attack 157 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,639 you. So you said it affects you and you don't even realize it, 158 00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:54,200 and that somebody picked up on it and said it to you. They saw 159 00:13:54,879 --> 00:14:00,200 yep. I was in a gallery reading and there were several very gifted pike 160 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:05,320 sitting in the back row, and we were in a haunted location and I 161 00:14:05,399 --> 00:14:09,639 was able to pick up names of pets and everything, and everything was fine, 162 00:14:09,639 --> 00:14:13,240 and then all of a sudden, I could not read these two women. 163 00:14:13,799 --> 00:14:18,559 There was just it was like I was shot at someone. Yeah, 164 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,919 just completely block. And something told me to have them move up a row. 165 00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:28,360 And when they moved up a row, I could read them like a 166 00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:33,759 barrier. Well, there was a very very gifted gentleman in the back who 167 00:14:33,879 --> 00:14:39,440 can see angels. He could just see them. He can see demons, 168 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,720 he could just describe them. And he came up to me afterwards, who 169 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,799 goes when you asked them to move up. I was just like, Wow, 170 00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:50,559 she's good. And I laughed and I'm like, I don't know why 171 00:14:50,559 --> 00:14:52,840 I couldn't read them, And he said, you didn't see it. I 172 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,279 was sitting in the back. The lights were on you. There was a 173 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:01,720 hallway at the third row, and this dark figure walked and stood there, 174 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,240 he said, And all of a sudden, these two huge beams of light 175 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,879 like columns shot down in front of you. And that's when you said you 176 00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:15,519 couldn't read anybody past a third row. And I had no idea, but 177 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,159 it's happened since I was at a Satanic altar and it was an outdoor place, 178 00:15:20,399 --> 00:15:24,720 and it's rumored to be Satanic, but we got a horrible EVP there 179 00:15:24,759 --> 00:15:28,919 that proved it. And as we were walking up to this open space with 180 00:15:30,039 --> 00:15:33,039 stones that you could have climbed over, something shoved me and said, don't 181 00:15:33,039 --> 00:15:37,759 go, don't go in, and I didn't. I stayed in the perimeter 182 00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:45,799 and we called an EVP with music and chanting and this horrific voice saying make 183 00:15:45,879 --> 00:15:50,519 her leave, make the girl go. And it was the weekend after I'd 184 00:15:50,559 --> 00:15:54,679 been ordained to the priesthood, and I was the only woman there. That's 185 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,600 wonderful to know that you had that protection. Thought, that's really wonderful. 186 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,960 The spirit guides of gills or however you would refer to that. Yes, 187 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,360 it's pretty heavy. But because as a leader, as an archbishop, I'm 188 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,200 in charge of all the other bishops, all the other priests, all the 189 00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:15,039 parishes, all the deacons, all our orphanage and ken Yarre, our LGBTQ 190 00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:21,960 rights group in Africa. I'm in charge of everything. So I'm under attack 191 00:16:22,039 --> 00:16:26,960 because then everything will kind of fall to the wayside. So the gen is 192 00:16:26,039 --> 00:16:32,240 extremely heavy, right, that doesn't mean if I'm stupid enough to walk into 193 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,679 that altar, something bad isn't going to happen, because you know, I 194 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,519 can say God is going to save me and jump in a shark tank. 195 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,919 Well, they're gonna bite me because I jumped into the shark tank. That 196 00:16:44,519 --> 00:16:52,000 my invitation. So I had anything bad happened to you all the time unexplained 197 00:16:52,039 --> 00:16:56,519 fires after I've been I was called in on a case I just consulted paranormal 198 00:16:56,559 --> 00:17:00,960 investigator gave me a call, and then my usband and I go out to 199 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,920 the movies and we come home and my kids, who are older at the 200 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,880 time eighteen and sixteen are like, yeah, there was a fire out in 201 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:14,160 front of the garage. It burned one of the planters, and I went, 202 00:17:14,279 --> 00:17:17,759 what cost the fire? Thankfully neighbors came over, got the kids. 203 00:17:17,759 --> 00:17:19,359 I mean, nothing was heard. I said, what cost the fire? 204 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:26,240 And they're like, the cord out front it wasn't plugged in. Oh so, 205 00:17:26,519 --> 00:17:32,960 by being on my way to a paranormal convention, a four wheelers tire 206 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,119 blew out and knocked me off the road. I've gotten stuck in elevators on 207 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,880 my way to teach it. Its all the time. Do you hear it 208 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:47,559 coming into your home? That's happened a couple of times. But I'm pretty 209 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:52,400 tightly sealed up right now. Not I don't just through me, but and 210 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,440 through my people's prayers and blessings and offering Nasa and I the eu grist in 211 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:03,480 the house. But I also have this wonderful shaman from Brooklyn, shaman trained 212 00:18:03,519 --> 00:18:10,480 in Haiti in Tibet and with the Nava home, and he locks my house 213 00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:15,039 down from a distance. He kind of comes in and sweeps and now I 214 00:18:15,079 --> 00:18:17,440 know. But now I know who to go to if I need a shaman, 215 00:18:17,519 --> 00:18:21,480 because I did have I did a presentation at a library probably about six 216 00:18:21,559 --> 00:18:25,200 months ago. And this woman could have really used a shaman, And all 217 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:30,160 I could really tell her was, please look for an experienced shaman to help 218 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,079 you, because she was living in a haunted apartment and it was abusive and 219 00:18:36,079 --> 00:18:40,640 really really bad situation. So to me, something like that's not something that 220 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:45,359 somebody simply a paranormal investigator could come in and rid her of. It's somebody 221 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,160 that really needs to know what they're doing to get rid of whatever that was 222 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,960 in her place. Exactly, Yes, what is by house healing? Is 223 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,680 it similar to cleansing houses of spirits? That's what he does remotely, right, 224 00:18:59,079 --> 00:19:03,599 I'm in David and Glenn Farcas. He does that remotely, and I've 225 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,160 had cases that I've referred to him, and like me, he could take 226 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,880 a pick, needs to see the house or the person, and he can 227 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,880 remotely take care of things. He and I have worked on a couple of 228 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,759 cases together. I don't know if he's fully retired. I'll have to find 229 00:19:19,799 --> 00:19:23,720 out. He kind of comes in and takes care of that, and then 230 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:32,079 my husband who's in it helps him with his computer, bard Barder with each 231 00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:37,400 other exactly exactly, he's a very good friend of thirteen years now, so 232 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,400 I'm a lucky that's nice. Well, I saw you did a sermon which 233 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,839 explained why Paul said the devil rules the world through the power of the fear 234 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,599 of death. And I've heard this before and wondered exactly what was meant by 235 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,880 it. Hey explain, like, does it mean that people so fear death 236 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,559 that they will believe anything that's said to them that will keep them from dying, 237 00:19:56,799 --> 00:20:00,160 or even do anything they can for the the sake of not dying. 238 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:06,599 Does that make sense? Yes, the fear of death. Theologically, in 239 00:20:06,759 --> 00:20:12,079 Christianity Catholic Christianity, it's death that Jesus fought on the cross. When he 240 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:17,079 went into the tomb, he did what we call harrowed hell. He went 241 00:20:17,079 --> 00:20:19,640 all the way down to all the dead, opened heaven, which is what 242 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:25,039 the Jewish people believed the Messiah would do, and brought them all up that 243 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:30,359 process of death descent, assent up into heaven, brought a human body up 244 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:37,240 to God. So death doesn't touch us anymore. However, we are so 245 00:20:37,279 --> 00:20:41,759 afraid of death, and the theologically Jesus saved us from that death, that 246 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,440 death, the fear of death is what causes us to do bad things. 247 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:53,640 Not necessarily physical death, but wars fought over resources are about survival. Even 248 00:20:53,799 --> 00:21:02,039 our trauma and childhood will trigger us to behave in horrible days because we fear 249 00:21:02,279 --> 00:21:07,200 ego death. You know, our trauma reactions were to survive. Psychologically, 250 00:21:07,519 --> 00:21:11,880 it's all about survival. It's all about getting through the pain and the blood 251 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:17,559 and the mud and the tears of life psychologically or physically. And that's what 252 00:21:17,839 --> 00:21:22,400 causes us to react. When you have a near miss, someone almost hits 253 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:29,000 your car, your adrenaline pumps, you could have died, and there comes 254 00:21:29,079 --> 00:21:34,680 row rage. Yeah, it's all embedded in our neuropsychiatry, in our bodies. 255 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:41,240 It's all part of what we would call in Christianity and Catholic Christianian way, 256 00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:47,559 the fallen world. It's we're just stuck in this situation where we can't 257 00:21:47,599 --> 00:21:52,720 see past our own end except through faith. Where we don't want to lose 258 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:57,000 the way in which we identify ourselves, whether it's our job, whether it's 259 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:03,119 our family, our kids. When we put our whole identity into something, 260 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,920 we have a tendency to grab it and hold on and do the wrong thing 261 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,319 to hold onto it. Jesus also said he who seeks to save his life 262 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:17,279 will lose it, but he who's willing to lose his life for my sake 263 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,039 will find eternity. And it wasn't about martyrdom. I mean, when you're 264 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:29,359 clinging to something, like someone insults my ability to be a bishop, well, 265 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,799 my reaction to that is one of fear of ego death. I'm afraid 266 00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:36,000 of losing my identity. That's who I think I am. It's a death, 267 00:22:36,039 --> 00:22:41,480 it's a psychological death. But if I'm like, it's not something I'm 268 00:22:41,519 --> 00:22:45,319 particularly concerned about. I know who I am. I'm not worried about ego 269 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,880 death. I will remain who I am no matter what you think. Then 270 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:55,839 I've let go. I'm not clinging or attached to it. That attachment, 271 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,279 that clinging is really what causes so much of our pain in life. I'm 272 00:23:00,319 --> 00:23:06,400 as very Buddhist principle. It's a principle cross all spiritualities. You can't hold 273 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:11,759 on so tightly that you're hurting everybody. You have to be able to let 274 00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:17,400 go. As painful as letting go can be, very interesting. I've heard 275 00:23:17,519 --> 00:23:22,160 it inferred that the paranormal and spirituality can be found throughout the Bible, and 276 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,480 I certainly can't argue the fact that the wise men were astrologers. So it 277 00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:30,440 makes sense to me it always has. You wrote a book on the subject 278 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,279 God and the paranormal, Median's Ghosts in the Afterlife in the Bible. I'd 279 00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:38,319 really love to discuss God and the paranormal and learn of other places in the 280 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:45,039 Bible where the paranormal is prevalente absolutely. I wrote that started as a thirty 281 00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:52,119 page email because people would come from evangelical backgrounds, particularly Protestant backgrounds. In 282 00:23:52,240 --> 00:24:00,000 Catholicism, that death of death we call it the death of death allowed us 283 00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:03,880 to be one body with Christ. Correct, So Paul says, we are 284 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,519 one body in Christ. We are the mystical body of Christ. Every single 285 00:24:07,519 --> 00:24:11,920 one of us is connected to Christ. Well, that means the dead and 286 00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:18,640 the living we're one. So in Catholicism, of course the dead prey for 287 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,759 you, and of course you pray for those who are going through what we 288 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,480 call purgatory. It's not a third option. It's Heaven's mudroom. It's where 289 00:24:27,519 --> 00:24:32,200 you go to get rid of all the resentments you might have for people you 290 00:24:32,279 --> 00:24:36,039 might see in heaven. If it's where you go to purge ego. But 291 00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:40,440 that way, okay, you go to purge ego. So we pray for 292 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,559 those people who are in that process. But if you're in purgatory, you're 293 00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:47,880 just getting cleaned up for dinner. It's not do that have your really long 294 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,039 time. It's what you're saying. It is kind of it's eternity, so 295 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,400 there is no time. You could describe it as a million years. You 296 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,039 could describe it as a blink of an eye. And I actually, in 297 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:03,880 studying near death's life of your death experiences, I think the life review is 298 00:25:04,079 --> 00:25:11,880 purgatory because you feel the consequences of your actions. When you screamed at someone, 299 00:25:12,599 --> 00:25:17,640 you feel how they felt, you feel how they push that away. 300 00:25:18,079 --> 00:25:22,160 So Catholics say purgatory is painful, Well, it's existential pain because you see 301 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,519 yourself for who you really are. Suddenly you feel all that that pain that 302 00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:32,079 you cause on that other person or whatever it wasn't you can and you feel 303 00:25:32,079 --> 00:25:36,039 the good. So the better you are, the more cautious you are, 304 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,920 it equals out. So we're all together. So for me, and going 305 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:47,440 all the way back to Jesus, Jesus talked about this prayer for the dead, 306 00:25:47,799 --> 00:25:51,839 so did Paul. You talked about people who get baptized for the dead, 307 00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:56,599 and this is all in scripture. What too many people do is they 308 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,079 pick up the Bible as if and they read it as if it were written 309 00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:04,279 by some guy named Frank in Indiana near two thousand. It wasn't. It 310 00:26:04,319 --> 00:26:11,519 was written by three dead cultures in four deadlight, which is two thousand years 311 00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:19,359 to five thousand years ago. And if you don't understand what the Jewish people 312 00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:25,240 in the time of Jesus believed the Messiah was supposed to do, you're gonna 313 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:33,160 miss everything. They believed that Siel the abode of the dead, which unfortunately, 314 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,519 in the King James is mistranslated as hell. It's not hell, it's 315 00:26:37,519 --> 00:26:42,720 the place of the dead Shoul, which is Hebrew for to ask. Because 316 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,920 what is condemned in scripture as necromancy or mediumship is nothing of the kind. 317 00:26:51,519 --> 00:26:56,440 What is condemned is what they call well, it's a form of witchcraft. 318 00:26:57,079 --> 00:27:03,559 You would conjure the dead using blood. You would conjure them, trap them 319 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:10,400 and force them to tell you the future. That specific act is what's condemned 320 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:15,039 in scripture. They're kind of misunderstanding that because I always wondered what the church's 321 00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:18,359 view was on that. I was born and raised a Catholic. I was 322 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,839 bored up to believe the Catholic Church frowned upon all of that. And that's 323 00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:26,319 how I always kept myself, because I was afraid that I was going to 324 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:33,279 be shut down, and they did it. Unless you say you have the 325 00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:40,720 gifts of the Holy Spirit, because there are so many stories of the saints 326 00:27:40,759 --> 00:27:45,200 who saw debt people and prayed for them. There are stories of saints coming 327 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:51,920 back from the third century. Saint Polycarp, who studied under the apostle John, 328 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,759 who wrote the Gospel of John, was killed by lions. His followers 329 00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:00,000 gathered up his bones because the body was important, they took it to a 330 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,400 sacred place, and while they were warning him, he appeared among them and 331 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,359 said, I'm with our award. I'm sorry, this isn't this is third 332 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,920 century. So we are talking in the early two hundreds a d. And 333 00:28:12,079 --> 00:28:18,119 this is a document from the early two hundred SAD. And it was perfectly 334 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:23,279 normal as it should be appearances of saints or appearances of debt people. So 335 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,559 if you use the term mediumship, sometimes it implies the wide range, and 336 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:36,279 I think what the church is trying to frown upon are things that could league 337 00:28:36,319 --> 00:28:42,160 people down the poor path. That's the Roman Catholic Church understand. So they 338 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,000 have a better to shut it out altogether than allow anything. Right. They 339 00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:51,799 making astray without really knowing what they're getting themselves into. But that just seems 340 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:57,000 so it hurts people like ourselves, right, because those people become so strong 341 00:28:57,079 --> 00:29:03,480 in their beliefs that if for one second they know about you, that's it. 342 00:29:03,799 --> 00:29:10,839 You're under ridicule and constant condemnation. Really, I'm the bride of Satan. 343 00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:14,920 I've heard it from people because I have these gifts. I've heard it 344 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,400 from people because I'm just a woman who plays church. As I've been told. 345 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,279 It's terrible. Oh, I mean the first fund to say that. 346 00:29:23,319 --> 00:29:26,039 I always felt when I was a kid, those priests should have been allowed 347 00:29:26,079 --> 00:29:30,079 to get married. I never understood. And when you go back in history, 348 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,519 they were. So how is it that all of a sudden they changed 349 00:29:33,559 --> 00:29:38,720 this course of action over time, and you see how it's wrought with problems 350 00:29:38,759 --> 00:29:45,319 because of them not allowing it to be so right, it's it's not the 351 00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:48,640 way I think things should be. But power structures being what they are. 352 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:56,000 In order to protect yourself, you cut off the inner sanctums from prying eyes, 353 00:29:56,160 --> 00:30:03,319 like female eyes, like married odd That's my theory. Anyway, I'm 354 00:30:03,359 --> 00:30:07,839 always cautious about insulting people, but it is what it is. And I 355 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,759 think what the Church fails to understand, because honestly, the people who translate 356 00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:17,319 the Bible, what are the odds that they know Hebrew and Aramaic and Greek 357 00:30:17,559 --> 00:30:22,440 and Second Temple Judaism and the paranormal. What are the odds that those two 358 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,759 are together? So they translate conjuring, They translate the Hebrew word ghost wife 359 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,759 or ghost mistress as medium. Well, that's not what that was. It's 360 00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:40,920 completely separate. In fact, the reason Shiol was called Shiol was because you 361 00:30:41,079 --> 00:30:45,279 asked the dead the future. And in the second Book of Samuel, there 362 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:52,279 is a story from about King Saul called unfortunately the Witch of Endore in the 363 00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:59,039 original of King James, now it's called the Medium of Endoor, but in 364 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:04,319 it he conjures up the ghost of the prophet Samuel, and and King Saul 365 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:10,359 asks it, am I going to lose the battle? Saul's name also means 366 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,480 to ask the Jewish people love the tongue in cheek stuff. And if you 367 00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:18,680 don't know Hebrew, don't. Yeah, but that's where she all got its 368 00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:23,839 name. Conjure and tell the future. Wow, oh boy, I'm sure 369 00:31:23,839 --> 00:31:27,680 a lot of people out there don't have a clue. They have no clue. 370 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,559 Now you've got to ask us experts, but they very rarely find an 371 00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:40,759 expert who knows all the different who Unfortunately, I was cursed to put together 372 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,559 things that really don't usually go together. So that's where I grab like science, 373 00:31:45,599 --> 00:31:52,000 theology, paranormal politics, things that don't go together. I smashed together. 374 00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:56,519 It's just the way my brain weren't saying nothing is a coincidence that you 375 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,759 meant to do that for a reason, I don't believe in who incidented, 376 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,400 so you were meant to make that connection and walk back those things. How 377 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,920 did you first realize you were psychic? You know, I never used the 378 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,119 word. I did not say, oh gee, I think I'm psychic until 379 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,039 like twenty ten. But I'd been able to do it my whole life and 380 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:22,200 my parents, who were not religious people. In fact, my father's family 381 00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:28,720 is part of Cherokee nations, so it was there was more acceptance of spirituality. 382 00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:31,400 My mother was a pre Vatican to Catholic and hated the church. So 383 00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:37,519 I was just interesting, not raised in Huh, it's amazing that you found 384 00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:43,880 God at all. Life was born with this. Ever since I was a 385 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,440 kid, I wanted the church. I was nine years old and I wrote 386 00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:53,799 a twelve page dissertation about someone who died and what they went through. And 387 00:32:54,279 --> 00:33:00,119 I don't know how I channeled the information, but I basically rewrote Dante going 388 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,000 through purgatory in Paradise. And I laugh at that, but that I was 389 00:33:05,119 --> 00:33:12,599 borned. Wow. So as a young kid, I would just look at 390 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,279 someone and be like, well, I just had a flash of their funeral. 391 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:22,000 And then I have a very strong telepathic bent, so I know people 392 00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:27,119 are thinking. And my parents used to be like, camere, are they 393 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:32,920 lying to me? Now? He figures of my husbands and politics, and 394 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,039 he takes me to parties and he's like, Camere, go stand over them, 395 00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:43,000 tell me what you see. No beyond do you think you're a villainything? 396 00:33:44,519 --> 00:33:47,359 The guard but the cord, let's say it's for the guide. Oh, 397 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,160 it caused me a secret weapon. I was always able to do it, 398 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,079 but not on command. It wasn't them saying it seemed like something I 399 00:33:55,119 --> 00:34:01,160 could command. My childhood wasn't a fun one, so these senses were often 400 00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:06,440 used as as sort of safety measures, like I'd be sitting in class and 401 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,840 go, oh, you know, Dad's home, which means he's drinking. 402 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:15,880 So from so, I would just that they were honed to a fine point 403 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:22,280 back yourself too exactly. So it wasn't until two thousand and nine I watched 404 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:27,639 a paranormal show and I looked at my husband and I'm like, I think 405 00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:30,920 that's what I can do. I think I'm a psychic medium. I never 406 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:36,039 I never connected it. I'd been to psychic mediums I didn't and they would 407 00:34:36,119 --> 00:34:38,760 tell me, you know, you're a really strong psychic medium. I'd be 408 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,840 like, stop, it's so stupid. No, I'm not, you know, 409 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,239 And I just never connected the two. And so I went to a 410 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,639 paranormal team and I said, I've never done this song command, but I 411 00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:57,400 think it might be because I'd had so many experiences of They sat me down 412 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,760 and tested me with a bunch of strangers, and I mean it was scary. 413 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:08,000 Yeah. People were sobbing because it's names places, names of pets, 414 00:35:08,159 --> 00:35:14,800 people I can just read. Yeah, so that was fun. I mean 415 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,559 I had one woman fall off her chair because she came to me and she's 416 00:35:17,599 --> 00:35:21,159 like, I, no, no one. My husband with drew five thousand 417 00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:24,079 dollars from the bank and hit it before he died of a heart attack, 418 00:35:24,119 --> 00:35:28,039 and I can't find it. Why would he even do that? That makes 419 00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:30,639 no sense. And I heard at a complete sentence and just copied. I 420 00:35:30,639 --> 00:35:35,880 said I owed money to Big Pete and she fell back where she's like, 421 00:35:36,159 --> 00:35:44,440 I knew that Big Pete he would be taken back. And I never met 422 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,480 the woman. It was at a conference where I was just doing rent reading. 423 00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:52,480 I always say it's in God's time. I mean personally, I had 424 00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:53,519 I could see spirit. When I was a kid, I lived in a 425 00:35:53,519 --> 00:35:58,679 home that was haunted and I had premonitions to At twelve, I had a 426 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,400 very scary premonition would come to me in dreams and my mom really didn't think 427 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,039 anything of it. She would say, I was just a dream, just 428 00:36:04,159 --> 00:36:07,719 dream. When I had this nightmare premonition and I told her, she said 429 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,320 it was just a nightmare, don't worry about it. And then when it 430 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,840 came true, I shut down because here is this twelve year old kid, 431 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,039 thinking I could have saved those two people. I could have done something. 432 00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:22,719 So although throughout my life from twelve on until when I was thirty, I 433 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,199 always believed in this stuff. I was always drawn to it and wanted to 434 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,920 learn more about it, but as far as I was concerned, I wanted 435 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,519 nothing to do with it at any kind of gift. So I'm kind of 436 00:36:32,599 --> 00:36:37,280 angry about that because I wish I had embraced it. But the day my 437 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,920 dad died when I was thirty, he came and he let me know he 438 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:44,559 was gone. He showed me walk into heaven, and so that was for 439 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,519 me, that was a blessing because I could share that beautiful story with the 440 00:36:47,559 --> 00:36:52,119 members of the family and friends that were at a week. But more importantly, 441 00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:55,519 it was at a rakening for me because it was like I almost feel 442 00:36:55,559 --> 00:37:00,920 like he was showing me something about myself. And even even still, it 443 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:07,199 took from thirty to fifty when I realized what my purpose was and I figured 444 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,119 that there's got to be something for me to do, but I haven't figured 445 00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:13,599 it out yet. But it took me until I was fifty to realize that 446 00:37:13,639 --> 00:37:19,280 I had to utilize my writing to help spirit get their stories out and so 447 00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:22,440 to me, that's in God's time. So when you realize that in that 448 00:37:22,639 --> 00:37:27,400 year when that happened, that was when you needed to know it, when 449 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,119 it was better exactly, And it set me on the path of finding Having 450 00:37:32,119 --> 00:37:37,840 been called to the priesthood so strongly and wrestled with I got elite because I 451 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:44,519 was a Protestant minister in seminary converted to Catholicism, but I wouldn't reconcile the 452 00:37:44,599 --> 00:37:51,280 two. So it was through this paranormal thing that I found the independent sacraments 453 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,920 and could be could atch my vocation. And to be perfectly honest with you, 454 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,119 I know I'm New England. I'm supposed to be doing same. You 455 00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:04,320 just know, and you just want to keep on growing with that and learning 456 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,079 more and different, for it is that you need to deal until it's your 457 00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:09,719 time to leave. I totally agree. That's wonderful. God draws straight with 458 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:15,760 crooked lines. There you go. I think it's fascinating that you even delved 459 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:22,440 in all of these scientific experiments in the neurological and biological effects of spiritual gifts. 460 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,559 Can you tell us about them? I am a friend doctor Chuck Kennedy, 461 00:38:25,639 --> 00:38:30,800 and he's a neuroscientist, and I was discussing with him when I was 462 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,920 in seminary. That was when my gifts slammed open. Because like you, 463 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,840 I'd shut them down and ignored them. They got scary. But one day 464 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:44,360 I was in a graveyard and all of a sudden, I could hear everybody 465 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:50,480 talking to me Halsovel, Philgrum graveyard and I was horrified, and I actually 466 00:38:50,519 --> 00:38:53,119 had a friend drive me to the hospital because I thought I was having a 467 00:38:53,119 --> 00:38:59,159 seizure. I had completely shut that down except for God. It was kind 468 00:38:59,199 --> 00:39:02,360 of like, here's God's conduit. No one else can come in, and 469 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:07,199 my gifts just alive. I would touch someone's hand, I knew they died, 470 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,480 I knew what age. I saw everything that they had come back. 471 00:39:09,639 --> 00:39:13,679 I mean, it was just scary. I saw dead people. I saw 472 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,239 what they looked like on the other side, tied to a chair, and 473 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,719 I found out a binding spell had been done on them, and it was 474 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,119 just getting crazy and I was terrified. So I went to a doctor. 475 00:39:24,159 --> 00:39:30,840 It's a neuropsychiatrist at Harvard Medical and he was actually the professor of neuropsychiatry at 476 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:36,960 Harvard medical and he tested me for temporal little epilepsy. He did an experimental 477 00:39:37,079 --> 00:39:39,480 test on me and he told me, I want you to use your gifts 478 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,119 because for me, I could control them. I'm like, I can control 479 00:39:43,199 --> 00:39:45,880 this feeling, you understand, I can stop it, I can start it. 480 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,920 And he's like, well, that's interesting. All right, I'm gonna 481 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,719 tell you during the test when to do that. And after the test he 482 00:39:53,840 --> 00:40:00,920 said, yeah, there's synchronicity. A sympathis not epileptic synchronicity. We don't 483 00:40:00,039 --> 00:40:04,400 use ten percent of our brain. We only use about ten to fifteen percent 484 00:40:04,519 --> 00:40:08,440 at a time, but we use our whole brain. What synchronicity is. 485 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:14,840 It means that several areas of the brain light up, including those they're not 486 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,360 quite sure what they do. So when I met with him, I'm like, 487 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,440 well, do I need medication? He said, And I will never 488 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,280 forget this. He's long since passed on. He said, what happens to 489 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,760 you, is it what's wrong with you? It's what's right with you. 490 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:34,039 And tell another psychiatrists because they'll well meaningly just medicate you out of your mind. 491 00:40:34,519 --> 00:40:38,000 You met the right person, a y person he was. He's saying 492 00:40:38,159 --> 00:40:45,159 because his wife was gifted. That's the only because he don't know. When 493 00:40:45,159 --> 00:40:49,199 they either experience it with someone they love are themselves, that's almost like an 494 00:40:49,199 --> 00:40:52,880 awakening for them and they realize there's something to this and then they have more 495 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,880 of an open mind. But when there are others are just shut down because 496 00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:01,480 they're one track mine, then then you're screwed. And that started my entrances 497 00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:05,920 because I had an extra blood vessel in the right temporal lobe, so there 498 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,800 was a symmetry and this thing. So when I met doctor Kennedy in twenty 499 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,519 ten, I started talking to him and I asked him, what do you 500 00:41:12,519 --> 00:41:17,599 think about this? And we started discussing the possibility of testing mediumship and so 501 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:22,440 using an EEG. I was the first test subject and he's like, okay, 502 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,719 I want you to do something, do reading and stuff. And he 503 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:30,320 read because he can read the EEG that the area of the brain that would 504 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:35,519 mean I was thinking of an answer was shut down. The area of the 505 00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:39,719 brain that would mean I'm imagining an answer or I'm lying were shut down when 506 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:45,519 this other tiny area that nobody knows what it does was lit up like a 507 00:41:45,599 --> 00:41:52,719 Christmas tree. So he then tested over three hundred and fifty other psychic medium 508 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,119 but added to the process, I mean, there were personality test IQ tests. 509 00:41:57,159 --> 00:42:00,639 But one of the big things that we found a lot of psychics get 510 00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:05,800 headaches when they're doing something. They're exhausted, they feel run down if they're 511 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,000 doing back to back readings, but if they're diabetic, they feel great after 512 00:42:09,079 --> 00:42:17,599 readings. Blood sugar plummets in ten minutes of a reading, lying flat, 513 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,920 all right, we become dehydrated and our blood sugar will plummet up to thirty 514 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:30,119 points. Thirty points. Now, there was a study in Harvard, because 515 00:42:30,159 --> 00:42:34,800 your brain consumes most of your sugar, so there was a study say, 516 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,480 well, if we really use our brain power, will the blood sugar drop? 517 00:42:38,039 --> 00:42:43,960 And they found that yes, it will. Students taking the SAT four 518 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:49,760 hours of intense concentration, they got a six point drop in ten minutes. 519 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,719 A psychic medium will drop thirty In ten minutes of prayer, I drop thirty 520 00:42:54,719 --> 00:43:00,679 five. So it's not just psychic medium ship, it's that spirit connection. 521 00:43:00,199 --> 00:43:05,519 And what does that tell us, Well, it tells us that when psychic 522 00:43:05,639 --> 00:43:09,360 mediums are doing what they do, when spiritual practitioners are doing what they do, 523 00:43:10,079 --> 00:43:16,159 their brain is doing something that it does not do for any other human 524 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:24,360 activity, and that for me is hard scientific evidence of something of its reality. 525 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:30,239 Because they're not thinking, they're not imagining, they're not lying, is 526 00:43:30,519 --> 00:43:36,599 what they doing, right, And since then I've been devising other experiments. 527 00:43:36,639 --> 00:43:39,800 I actually I have too many books to write in the church. I'm like 528 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:45,360 at sixty hours a week now with urchwork. But I'm working on a book 529 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:52,360 that kind of pulls the spirituality and the science together with physics and quantum cosmology 530 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:57,400 and neuroscience. I studied that stuff and try to put it all together and 531 00:43:57,519 --> 00:44:00,480 theorize about it. So I'm about four chapter years into that. I may 532 00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:04,719 have to be a serious ess. I'm like, no, I have to 533 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,880 write it all. Doubt it'll be a thousand pages. Christina, you need 534 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:14,000 to, yes, learn that people's minds will only go so far nowadays because 535 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,039 they're so loved with other things. So a book that's about two hundred and 536 00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:20,760 thirty pages is just right. Yes, And they take it to book too, 537 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,920 because people don't have the time or the brain power energy because it's so 538 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:29,920 consumed by everything else. Yes, I've never known of your church's existence, 539 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,960 never, and I'm thrilled to hear that there is a Catholic presence out there 540 00:44:34,039 --> 00:44:39,440 that does believe what I feel. I'm blacked for so many years in that 541 00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:44,519 whole spectrum. I never knew it, so I'm thrilled to learn about it 542 00:44:44,559 --> 00:44:49,159 for sure. Thank you. You teach a course in demonology, have you? 543 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:54,239 I mean you were talking about exercise being quanted attachments earlier, and I'm 544 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:59,480 curious to know if you've ever actually been witnessed to an actually human exorcism or 545 00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:06,079 demon exorcism. I've done a couple. You're with you too. Never credit. 546 00:45:06,199 --> 00:45:13,400 Oh my goodness. It is such a small percentage of my ministry that 547 00:45:14,039 --> 00:45:19,480 if it comes up people request, I often refer it out because I'm more 548 00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:23,440 of an academic. So if you're like, well, demonology, I'm like, 549 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:29,440 okay, Samerian, Acadian, Babylonian, Persian, Islamic, which demonology? 550 00:45:29,519 --> 00:45:32,400 That's me. I have all that in my head. I've got thousands 551 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:37,119 of books behind me on those things, written throughout the ages, so I'm 552 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:43,760 usually called in to kind of consult on what's going on here. But when 553 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:50,519 I was younger, I watched a woman almost get possessed and I stopped it. 554 00:45:51,639 --> 00:45:54,840 I stopped it, and I couldn't tell you how I knew what to 555 00:45:54,880 --> 00:46:02,840 do. It was so scary. And it was while I was sort of 556 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:09,360 moving down this road towards all right, I've got these gifts, but oh 557 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:14,159 my god, I feel like I need to be grounded by the church. 558 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,239 So I was swaying with I want to be a minister. But for some 559 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:22,119 mos I was all over the place, and I didn't know how to bring 560 00:46:22,159 --> 00:46:27,039 all of this together. There just seemed to be no way. Saint Michael 561 00:46:27,079 --> 00:46:31,679 scared me into the Catholic church. But that night we were having a meditation 562 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:38,559 session at the Unitarian church I attended, where I preached ended ministry, and 563 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:44,440 that's when I realized I could see dead people again. It was after seminary, 564 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,880 so it was kind of coming back to me. And during this session 565 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,920 there was the same group of seven people. We would talk about spiritual items 566 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:54,320 that then they would put on music, they would like the candles. We 567 00:46:54,360 --> 00:47:00,400 would just meditate, and I realized that, oh my god, I cannot 568 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,199 only see all these spirits in the room. I can make everybody else see 569 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,000 what I see. So I was performing little experiments on them. I would 570 00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:12,800 run a horse around the circle and everybody afterwards would talk about what they saw 571 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,320 and there I saw this horse and they would describe it and everybody me too, 572 00:47:16,559 --> 00:47:19,960 Oh that's so. And I'm sitting there going, oh my god, 573 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,679 what am I supposed to do with this? Is the nuts. There was 574 00:47:22,679 --> 00:47:27,840 a woman there named Edie. I thought Evie had a speech impediment. Turned 575 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,400 out she was from Worcester, Massachusetts. It wasn't a speech impediments. And 576 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:37,920 yeah, well, after I went to Boston, I realized that she who 577 00:47:37,039 --> 00:47:43,280 was something about her that bothered me so badly. And I when I meet 578 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:49,840 someone who has a demon and it's a rare occurrence, there is this rage 579 00:47:50,679 --> 00:47:54,639 that bottles up inside of me. They described Jesus when he encountered death as 580 00:47:54,880 --> 00:48:01,559 snorting in spirit. It's almost like this vomiting, and I just want to 581 00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:07,920 attack them. I'm not that type of personlip so common, laid back. 582 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,719 So this was the first time that had happened, and I hated her, 583 00:48:12,079 --> 00:48:15,039 and I can use the word hate like I wanted to claw her eyes out 584 00:48:15,079 --> 00:48:20,119 and I didn't understand why. So one night we're doing meditation. I'm sitting 585 00:48:20,159 --> 00:48:23,280 here amas over here in a chair and it's a back chair, so she's 586 00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:30,440 got her hands here, and I look over and there are two dark figures, 587 00:48:30,679 --> 00:48:37,000 and it was a figure I'd seen before. They weren't just black in 588 00:48:37,039 --> 00:48:42,199 the sense of the color. They were sucking color into them, and there 589 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:46,880 was an oily quality to it. And these figures were amorphous. But one 590 00:48:47,039 --> 00:48:52,199 had its hands on her shoulders, holding her down, and the other was 591 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:57,960 pushing its way into her cheek. Oh, how awful and creepy. And 592 00:48:58,119 --> 00:49:02,480 I just again channeling Dante. I just seemed to know what to do, 593 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,320 probably one of the few Catholics you'll meet who believes in past lives and says 594 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,519 it's in the scriptures. But I knew what to do. And I don't 595 00:49:10,519 --> 00:49:15,039 know how I knew what to do, but with all of my might, 596 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:22,679 I just threw light through me at her, and I started speaking in one 597 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:30,119 Swiss like and calling on Saint Michael and other saints I'd never even heard of. 598 00:49:30,119 --> 00:49:36,360 And they eventually went away. They just kind of shut down. Everybody 599 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,800 turned the lights on, and Evie still doing this, and they're like, 600 00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:44,760 Evie, what happened? And she sorry, My stomach lurches every time I 601 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:50,119 tell this story. She said, these beautiful angels wanted to enter me and 602 00:49:50,199 --> 00:49:54,960 they had a message for you. And here's the funny part. I stood 603 00:49:55,079 --> 00:49:59,039 up. I mean I shot up like a bolt, and I yelled, 604 00:49:59,199 --> 00:50:04,559 I hate you. Literally did that to her and everybody. I was the 605 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:09,639 quiet one, I hate you. And she looked at me, and I 606 00:50:09,679 --> 00:50:15,280 will never forget her turn of face. She just went but I really like 607 00:50:15,559 --> 00:50:23,239 you, and everybody in the room defended me. Always gotta be his pet, 608 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:28,599 oh Evie, and I never went back. I went home with the 609 00:50:28,679 --> 00:50:32,039 worst migraine. Didn't get migraines. I had a migraine so bad I couldn't 610 00:50:32,039 --> 00:50:36,559 even breathe. You want to talk about blood sugar drops. I'm sure that 611 00:50:36,679 --> 00:50:42,039 dropped a lot of blood sugar um and it scared the Bejesus out of me, 612 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,519 and I again shut off the gifts. It's like, don't ever want 613 00:50:45,519 --> 00:50:51,880 to do that again. So yeah, that was that was what that was 614 00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:57,599 all about. How would I have for me is a very rational, grounded 615 00:50:57,679 --> 00:51:01,440 person at the time, very skeptic goals everything. I didn't even know what 616 00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:07,000 to tell her. I mean, she ain't believing these liars or angels, 617 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:13,840 So how would I do that? I just know probably she probably wouldn't believe 618 00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:15,920 it anyway, because you're believe in you see an angels, and I believe 619 00:51:16,159 --> 00:51:21,920 I'm twenty. How could I possibly explain to this fifty year old woman for 620 00:51:22,119 --> 00:51:25,199 me? And I was a different person then. I wasn't very outspoken, 621 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:30,039 and at that time, I was just like, no, no, I'm 622 00:51:30,039 --> 00:51:31,400 wanting no part of this. I'm not going back. That was it. 623 00:51:31,679 --> 00:51:37,719 Wow, Oh my goodness, that's crazy. Yeah, they knocked my front 624 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:42,320 teeth out. When I was like eight, I woke up on the top 625 00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,119 bunk bed and I was floating because those things would come and attack me when 626 00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:47,480 I was a kid. I get slapped, I get bitten, I get 627 00:51:47,559 --> 00:51:52,480 hit And I woke up on my bunk bed and I'm right by the ceiling 628 00:51:53,159 --> 00:51:59,679 and then I'm like, why do I feel weird? There's nothing you're levitating. 629 00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:05,519 I was a footnext to the bunk and then something slammed me into my 630 00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,960 dresser cut up my mouth. And I'm eight. So what do I do. 631 00:52:10,039 --> 00:52:14,159 I do what any rational eight year old would do. I climb back 632 00:52:14,159 --> 00:52:20,559 into bed and go to sleep and don't tell anybody. So I said, 633 00:52:20,559 --> 00:52:22,679 well, so you're probably afraid they weren't going to believe you. My parents 634 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,760 might have, but it was just one of those things. I woke up 635 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:30,000 with blood coming down my face and I was just like, no, I'm 636 00:52:30,039 --> 00:52:37,719 just gonna keep this one to myself. Oh my goodness, Well, why 637 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,519 don't you tell the audience how they can find you and your box? Please? 638 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,480 Oh thank you. You can find me really through the church website. 639 00:52:46,639 --> 00:52:52,440 It's the best way American Old Catholic dot org and my emails on there. 640 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:58,880 You can contact me through that. Also you learn more about our ministries and 641 00:52:59,039 --> 00:53:02,559 what we're doing. You can also find the book on Amazon if you just 642 00:53:02,599 --> 00:53:07,719 search for my name Christina with a K and the last name Rake or Akae. 643 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:14,400 And by September, my first novel should be out and available too, 644 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:16,920 so we'll see how that goes. But those are the best ways to find 645 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,400 me. Good luck with that novel. I know what it's like to have 646 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,360 a deadline winds October, and I'm pushing it because now with two jobs and 647 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:30,039 two podcasts, I'm struggling to get in those interviews and the book written. 648 00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:34,920 So I can't imagine how busy your life must be running a whole church and 649 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,320 all those different groups in mind. Goodness, but thank you so much for 650 00:53:37,679 --> 00:53:43,440 sharing yourself with me today. I really really had a fun conversation with you 651 00:53:43,519 --> 00:53:46,039 and intrigued by everything that we talked about. This is well. Thank you 652 00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:50,239 very much. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. By 653 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,360 pleasure, and to you listening what is. If you liked listening to this 654 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:58,440 week's episode and you're into all things paranormal, check out my other show, 655 00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,760 Eleanor Wagner's Creeping It Real podcast out of the Coast to Coast Entertainment Network, 656 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:06,639 which is available wherever you get your podcasts. And if any of you are 657 00:54:06,639 --> 00:54:08,599 interested in meeting any of my books, you can find the links to them 658 00:54:08,599 --> 00:54:13,440 on my website or author Eleanor Wagner dot com. I write about the history 659 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,079 of the town and location and the paranormal story to the nixt and finish it 660 00:54:16,119 --> 00:54:21,320 all off with photos and evidence. Everybody loves a good ghost story, but 661 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,079 there's nothing better than a true ghost story, so check it out at author 662 00:54:24,119 --> 00:54:29,239 Eleanor Wagner dot com. Thank you so much again. Oh thank you, 663 00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,199 I really appreciate it. That was lots of fun. Thank you, Ghostly 664 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:38,159 listeners. You can follow me on my website, author Eleanor Wagner dot com 665 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:44,199 where there are links to my books and video updates and photographs. Also, 666 00:54:44,679 --> 00:54:50,840 you can sign up or level up on my author Eleanor Wagner Patreon program that's 667 00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:57,360 PA t R e O N, where you will find special bonus opportunities only 668 00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:01,679 available to its patrons, such as one on ones with me and co hosting 669 00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:07,679 opportunities on episodes of Eleanor Wagner's Strange and Scary World podcast. Thank you, 670 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:15,199 paranormal enthusiasts for tuning in today. I hope you'll come back again. Remember 671 00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:20,360 to tap into your own gifts. Everyone has them, and in the meantime, 672 00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:38,280 make sure you're creeping it wheelt dog because of God.