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Or if you say that, well, God's thinking and it produces this.

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But the Christian position is much stronger
than this. He purposely from his ideas

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is is logo. LOGI intends to
create through the idea, like you would

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do, Oh, I have an
idea, and it's not that you're just

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thinking about it and it produces something, but you're taking your will and an

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extra activity to execute and take those
blueprints and make them the materials into something.

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We would say the Christian God does
that. So it's it's not as

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in the Pathway intentional, it just
comes out of it. It's like no,

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yeah, because you know what it
is. Father. I kind of

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thought of like, okay, maybe
the problem of evil solved that this being

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was kind of like a primitive mind, a subconscious mind, right, that

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just does something and we are its
conscious version, like we are its eyes

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and ears and it's kind of mental. Well that's the David world view.

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Yeah, kind well not, you
know, a little kind. I guess

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he takes it from like these like
non dualistic people like this kind of like

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the Veda whatever you call them,
the bad of La Gita type, we're

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all brahm and sleeping coming the life
timee of thing, you know, and

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I I watched your debate with what's
his name? Also our level, Yeah,

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I mean, not the old guy, the younger kid. I'm debate.

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I forgot about that debate, Yeah, the Frindie. I kind of

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think perhaps God would even you know, kind of drop pills everywhere. But

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you so, how would you know
which pills are right? How do you

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know which of these things are true? So I do I do. I

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do think you do a great job
with debates and things like this. So

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my last question is because again you
kind of see I'm coming from this all

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this one distinction place, you know, this rupert spirit, nondualism, or

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even Taoism, if you will.
Why couldn't the trinity, instead of God

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being a trinity, extend itself to
all persons simultaneously. Instead of three peoples

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in one, why couldn't it just
be all peoples as God? You see

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what I mean? Well, for
one, we have a fundamental belief in

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the between the creator and the creature. So there's an uncreated creator and the

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creature is distinct from him. So
in the analogy that FDA was giving,

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like when you create something, the
creation bears the imprint and the idea that

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you put into it, but it's
distinct from you. It's the effect.

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And so we think that God is
the creator and he's uncreated, but the

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created order is an effect, and
so it's not identical to him, even

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though it does bear some of his
imprint. And so, well, why

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is the creation kind of screwed up? Well, that's where the fall comes

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in. So for us, the
fall of Atom is a key indicator,

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not just a moral of man's moral
failures, but also that it's in the

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Orthodox view, the entire metaphysics of
the cosmos is affected by man's fault because

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Adam was intended to kind of be
a sort of God like being, and

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so when he fell, it didn't
just affect him morally and spiritually, but

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it's the whole macrocosmic universe is affected. And that's why there's you know,

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decay and death and you know entropy
and all this kind of stuff. But

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this was part of God's plan initially, because he must have known this would

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happen. Correct, Well, we
think that God can be the God can

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permit things without being the direct cause
of things, and so because he wanted

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beings to be like him, in
the sense of having free will. He

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chose to create a world where there
was that that freedom rather than just because

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the world very I was subscribed.
I'm kind of, like I said,

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I'm still searching, if you will, because I went from Catholic to deist

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to almost atheist at one point.
Now this kind of like floatitious panandism,

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guy the universe whatever, And I
don't even think we have free will,

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and that kind of I guess that's
almost like he must. That's like almost

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like has to be that way if
I believe we're all one, right,

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but you're saying no, I mean, yeah, exactly, And I would

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argue, I can't even know what
the hell I'm saying exactly. So if

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you if there's not free will,
it would lead to a defeater for knowledge

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because everything that you believe you're coming
to know is not your truth or something

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that you're choosing, or there's no
virtue. There's no actual discovery of truth.

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There's just what is, and so
there's there's If you watch the debate

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that I did with JF that's where
that ended up. That debate ends up

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being Yeah, it ends up going
to that because he's like a strict determinist,

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And I'm like, well, if
you're a strict determinist, then you're

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not actually winning a debate, because
debate supposes presupposes the true versus the false.

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If everything is determined, there is
no true versus false. There's just

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what is. And Chase Haggard says
in the chat primary to secondary causation,

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Yeah, I meant to that when
I was talking about Yeah, so God

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permitting does not mean that he's the
direct cause of every event. In other

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words, I might know that some
bad events happening, and you know that

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does going to make me the cause
of it because I know about it.

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So if I know that there's something
happening down the road that will remedy that

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event, and not everybody knows that, right, you could say, well

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that that's maybe an analogy for why
God permits the fall to happen, because

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in the end we end up with
a more virtuous, better situation in the

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escaton than the here and the now. I think that's kind of the point

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of the Book of Job, is
like, you can't see and know all

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the infinite variations of people's choices.
God knows those things, and if we

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and he we couldn't even understand what
it would be. So rather than explaining

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every philosophical dilemma, the point I
think of the proma of evil from the

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Christian perspective is that we at least
get a basis for what's good and what's

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evil, even if we don't have
an explanation for every event of evil.

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Does that make sense? No?
I get it. No, we couldn't

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know if God's plan was larger than
what I comprehended, Like a baby gets

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buying a car. Okay, that
sucks, but that's probably down the line

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in his infinite whatever knowledge that was
actually part of a greater Look, if

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the if you guys are right,
then Heaven or whatever the end result is

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is superior than anything I could come
up with. So ultimately, none of

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these things really hurt that much in
the end. The other thing I'd like

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to ask too, is how's your
track record on judging objectively things that you

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thought were wrong, like, oh, this is a bad thing. In

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other words, have there been things
that you thought were like really bad but

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something came about really good from it. My whole life is that way.

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I mean, I've without knowing like
kind of like knowing God like, I

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don't know how to explain. I've
submitted to what I think you guys would

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call it God. My version of
God is greater than I don't know whatever.

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It's just thing. I don't know
what it is. And I said,

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I'm going to just do it.
I'm going to do what's right,

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whatever that means right now. I
remember I was raised Catholic for twenty three

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years, so I still have the
Christian ethics in my da now if you

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want to call it that. So
I'm not doing you know, I did

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my hedonistic lifestyle. I did the
women, the drugs, to party and

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and I learned through experience that that's
just repetitive, insatiable nonsense. I have

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a family of a wife and two
children, and I try to do better

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for the community. I try to
tell the truth about the world. And

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I'm extremely politically incorrect. In this
world today, anything is offensive, right,

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So now that I look, I
kind of became selfless father, and

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now I kind of like, for
some reason, my life has improved dramatically

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being that way. And I remember
my uncle Andrew before he passed and said,

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look, just love everyone and serve
God. What does that mean?

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To serve God? Well it must
be then to help your fellow man has

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to be right, because what's the
point. I mean, what else can

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it be not hurt your fellow man. So I don't know exactly how to

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explained where I get my ethics.
I think they're ingrained in me from my

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childhood. And I've done the whole
hedonistic like I said, do without almost

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not satanic, but nothing matters.
Nihilism kind of nonsense that leads to suffering.

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So I've learned from my experience that
being in you know, in that

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I guess fast life, being in
the Marine corps, seeing death and destruction

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and just accepting life. Okay,
you know what things are happening like right

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now as we're speaking, children are
being killed, people are rape things.

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But also babies are being born,
people are getting married. So there's this

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good and evil happening every second of
our lives that we have no control over

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it. Yeah, I've kind of
come to peace with that. Like as

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a stoic, I said, okay, you know, maybe stoke about it.

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What can I do in this world? So I don't know if God

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gave us purposes. I don't know
if you guys subscribe, Like, Okay,

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this guy will be born, he
will do X y Z. Yeah,

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absolutely believe that. Jay I thought
you could because then free will then

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and then it goes back to that
for doing well. The purpose is that

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you have a telos, that you
have a potentiality to achieve that tilos if

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you maximize and act on the virtues, so you don't necessarily not everybody necessarily

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achieves that purpose. Right And like
someone like myself, Let's suppose I don't

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ever come back to the church,
yet I still live a life more than

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most Christians that I've seen. I
don't think God would send me to I

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know you guys don't believe in hell, but I don't think someone like me

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would be punished in a way.
Not that I'm afraid of this, But

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suppose you have an atheist who lives
perfectly like a Christian, then what well,

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we would say that that's not even
really possible, because even though you

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might have some of the virtues,
it's not possible to have theosis or to

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participate in the uncreated glory of God
that's only had through the sacraments in the

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church. But does do the Catholics
believe in theosis like you guys do?

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Not really not really, like I
feel like Catholicism was like a completely different

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religion and they and they say,
no, it's not. It's just a

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pope. But it seems like you
guys have a whole No, it's pretty

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different. I mean I was Catholic
for I was a traditional Catholic for about

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eight years. Makes more sense and
even is more appealing because again, hell,

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you look, go to Catholic church. My dad like, you go

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to health. You don't go to
church. I'm like, holy shit,

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what kind of what kind of God? Is this? Right? But are

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you guys like saying no, you
go to hell because you said you rebel

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against God, and so it's a
lot kind of well that and argue of

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the hell is that you're gonna be
with God, like whether you want to

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be there or not. And so
the people that don't like God are tortured

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by the presence of God, like
you said, so that's that's the thing

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that makes it bad. But yeah, you brought up the whole actions too,

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because I was teaching this and uh, ethics, because you use this

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a lot, like the kind of
objection like, well, what if an

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atheist, you know, they can
be moral and they can live all the

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you know, duos to things,
and certainly in some senses we can say

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that there we could find atheists more
moral than certain Christians and stuff like that.

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But then an interesting question came up
in class. What about doing the

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right thing for the wrong reasons?
Does that in ethics make a difference.

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So this is an important question to
ask people. Is that, well,

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when you're saying this person or this
atheist is acting moral, but what are

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the reasons? For example, I
could feed the poor because I want I

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want people to see me. Right, Let's say, you know I do.

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Let's say I'm a cop and I'm
like, you know what, like

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I'm here to I break all the
Let's say I do I do all the

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good things because I don't want to
get in trouble or something like that.

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Right, but if I would,
if I could, you'd be yeah,

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I plant I plant drugs on the
guy, I totally. So like there's

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this notion of like it's not just
about being moral, but do we have

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the right reasons for doing it?
Intentional behind it? Absolutely and or according

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to your religion. God would know
that. God knows that and part of

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intention. So we have something very
similar to a virtue epistemology, but it's

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who you are. So intentionality the
right reasons comes from right character, and

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right character is acquiring the virtues the
true nature, right father. So so

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if I, for example, if
tomorrow murder was legal, and I don't

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murder, it's my nature, not
the murder people. So even if it

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were legal, I wouldn't do it
because that's my nature. So you know

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that kind of Actually, Paul does
say that the law was made for the

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lawless man, because the man who
is law Faull doesn't need the law because

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he has cultivated the virtues. He
would not choose the wicked, the wicked

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choice, which is the whole story
of the Ring of Gaijs, which goes

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into uh, what's the Tolkien Lord
of the Rings? The whole Ring of

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Gaije's is you put this ring on
and you go invisible, Like what would

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you do? Yeah, because I
used to think this when I was a

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kid. I used to think about
going invisible, and I'm like, I'd

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rob the ice Creamman's the first thing
I would do. I wouldn't get caught,

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And I fantasized it's because I was. I was. That shows how

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you were, because you didn't because
you didn't rob the bitcoin man. You

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were robbing ice cream. That's shows
how lame you were. Well, bitcoin

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didn't exist yet. If like somebody
told me, I would have been like,

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oh yeah, yeah, but you
should have been invisible and gone and

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hung out with the cipherpunk nerds,
and then you would have known the future

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known we'd be like, hey,
we're making this thing called bitcoin in the

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future. And but the whole idea
of the outward visibility becoming invisible shows me

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something about my inside, which is
invisible, my character you can't see it

200
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becomes visible, and it's like at
that time, like in my life,

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it's like, you're a bad person
if you would actually rob these banks and

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steal from the ice cream man,
if you could get away with it.

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But like you said, even if
you could get away with it, if

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you don't do it. The reason
why you don't do that is because,

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well, first, it's in your
nature. So unless you've acquired a or

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you've acquired a virtue that your nature
is supposed to actually have, that says

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it doesn't matter the outward if I
get caught or not. I know it's

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wrong to do that, and you
know it's wrong because you have the virtue

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and the character and wisdom to term
that so, and I don't want to

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take more time up. My biggest
two stumps that I need to get into

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is that how do I prove to
myself God is a person? And I

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mean like when you guys say a
person, you don't mean like a person

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like me, Like we mean a
being that has will and intentionality and creates

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with a purpose in a sense of
like direction direct directionality. Well it's not

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just mine, but but more just
the mind has a mind, a will,

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yeah intention purpose, and it's a
being that you can have a relationship

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with. Right, So not like
the number seven or a law of logic,

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Right, you can't have a relationship. You can have a relationship with

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the number seven. Number seven couldn't
do anything right, It couldn't start the

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universe. It just it just it
just is. And then what was mother

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things? So that is one of
my stumbling blocks is to learn if God's

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a person, where can I go
read something about, like what's your best

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material on this person? Because I
need to because something is telling me that.

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Well, for I would say a
couple of books you might like that

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would one that would address I mean, you're already interested in the idea of

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of an all mind. And there's
actually a really good book written from the

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advantage point of a guy who's into
physics and math. It's called Paul Davies's

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book The Mind of God is a
really good book for people that Yeah,

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it's a great book. I believe
something's out. I'm just saying I understand

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you would like that book because I
remember having a similar thought at one time,

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and that book really struck me as
really cool. But person the personhood

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of God would probably be I would
say, read like the Gospel of John

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again, or there's a pretty deep
it might be be a little too I

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mean, I'm not assaulting you.
I'm just saying it might be a little

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too dense if you If you don't
like it, you can go back to

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the other book. But father,
I'm that's okay. No, I'm not

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trying to be arms bro. You
know what that means. Orthodox Dogmatics,

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Volume one by steinieloy As It really
I mean that whole book is about personhood,

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like divine personhood. That's the first
book that comes to mind. But

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I'm trying to think of like if
that's too like philosophical You might just like

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rereading the book of John right,
okay, yeah, I don't want to

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take more time. Guys. I
appreciate the answers, and again I jumped

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into space too. Hopefully the boost
you us so well appreciate that. Yeah,

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let's see if we got any other
looks like we got quite quite a

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few in here. Thank you for
that. Let's see who's next. Daniel

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00:16:48,279 --> 00:16:56,120
was trying to get in here earlier. What's this? Daniel? You got

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00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:03,160
to unmute man? Hello, Hey, are you hearing me? Yeah?

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What's up? Okay? So I
had a few questions I called you last

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time about the argument. I want
to ask you another question right about the

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transcendental argument. So you know how
you say a transcendental preconditions rate, they

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need a justification rate, And according
to you, a justification is like providing

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a good reason to believe in something. Right, So for the transcendental preconditions,

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why can't I just say, well, my justification for believing in these

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transcendental preconditions is because if I don't
believe in them, it would lead to

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absurdity. Right, Yeah, that's
addressed in the russ Manion paper. That

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just because you can't see how it
would be otherwise doesn't get you to justification,

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because even Aristotle says that through retortion, that it would be a absurd

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to deny like the laws of logic
or the law of non contradiction or something

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like that. And the response to
that in the Manion paper is well,

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okay, maybe it just appears in
my mental schema that reality is ordered and

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constructed, but I don't how would
I know that it really is. So

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in other words, it still doesn't
get you to justification. I think,

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father Deacon, you have a in
one of your papers you addressed this as

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well as to why that's not enough
to grant justification. Right again, just

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move it to a higher level.
Okay, well, then I need a

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reason why I'm unable to do something
cognitively or linguistically or logically. Is a

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justification, yeah, exactly. You
it just keeps moving the issue back farther.

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Oh well, because and then it's
either an infinite regress or its circular

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or arbitrary. Well, because I
said so, and that's the issue.

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So you need something much more than
that. That's why in the Orthodoxy it's

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not simply impossibility of the contrary.
But there are positive conditions that give an

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account for how all these things are
related, how it would work, how

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it would provide it, and be
the only thing that would be the possibility

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of being something that could be a
justification, et cetera, et cetera.

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So it's a whole that's why we
say it's an argument for a whole paradigm.

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So I think the way you're approaching
this is really kind of reductive,

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no offense, but I mean all
philosophies try to do this, They try

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to reduce it to there's one kind
of foundation by which we can justify our

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justification cridity, and you see when
you do a deeper analysis into it,

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none of it works. It's all
arbitrary or an infinite chain of promisory notes

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for testifications. Yeah. So,
like if you read the Manion paper,

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if you go down to the section
called the deductive problem, and then when

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he mentioned logic, if you come
down a couple more paragraphs, he actually

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addresses this point right there and he
says, well, maybe we are just

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predisposed to think that our structured reality
matches up to the external world, but

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how do we know that it really
does? So that is maybe it's a

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simulation creating that exactly. So another
question, right, is about it is

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art problem. Right, So in
your paradigm, right, how would you

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get out of the odd problem?
Right if you just say, like God

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thinks, so right, isn't that
still it is? Well, it's only

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a problem for a reductionist position that
says that all reality is matter in motion.

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So we don't have that metaphysical presubposition. So it's not a problem for

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our position. It's a problem conditioned
on your metaphysics. Yeah, a student

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brought up the same question ethics.
I actually thought it was a really good

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question. I think it's a good
question that you're asking too. And I

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draw up some like fan diagrams.
So there is the descriptive world that is,

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and then there's the awe and I
said, look in our paradigm they

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overlap. So, as Jay said, the problem isn't that how do we

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explain that? It's like, well, we actually believe there's two realities.

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There's a normative realm and there's a
descriptive and is realm and natural realm.

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So it's not a problem for us. The problem is from the materialist or

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naturalist point of view, there's only
an is yet we make all these oughts,

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So it's not a problem that's we're
put back on us. It's a

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problem that the materialist of the naturalists
is involved in, which is where you

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get the naturalist philosophy because they're committed
in their presippositions to naturalism and is this

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and no oughts. Thank you for
that question, Daniel Kevin. What's up?

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Well, Kevin's connecting. We'll go
to the micro something. Mhmm.

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Looks like those micro you're on a
mute You got to u mute man the

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00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:25,920
f R. Hello, hey,
hey, Yeah. So I actually called

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another day and I asked about how
and uh, kind of like the Orthodox

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perspect on all that, and I
kind of skimmed through the soul after life

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and everything by sad from Rose.
But in that I also started looking a

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little bit at Saint Maximums the Confessor
and that and that whole thing you're kind

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of talking about. But then it
was kind of interesting because I was reading

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someone and I mean, I don't
agree with them, but they ended up

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00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,720
being like a universalist and they were
saying that they kind of use Maximus the

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00:23:53,759 --> 00:24:00,599
Confessor to like justify that right,
So you could go look at David Aarhon's

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00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:07,920
video on David Bentley Hart and he
talks about that Maximus does not believe in

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universalism. But anyway, today's topics
are simulation theory, David I, agnosticism,

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platonism, neoplatonism. So let's if
we can, let's keep to that

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00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:18,559
topic. If that's what you want
to talk about, Kevin, you want

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00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:41,400
to try again, let's see Big
Boss twenty dollars. I saw Blade Runner

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movies, both of them, and
I watched your videos. I was still

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00:24:44,039 --> 00:24:48,839
taken back by the films. The
AI girlfriend Joy was ahead of its time.

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Yeah, that was pretty crazy.
I forgot about those deep dives I

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did on Blade Runner. Thank you
for checking them out, Dave, the

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00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,880
Philippian ten dollars. The David Ike
videos are fun, goofy. When Elon

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00:25:02,039 --> 00:25:07,119
calls into Ike interviews on Alex and
they spelled gnostic transhumanism, it wasn't funny

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anymore. Well, I was hoping
David Ike might agree to I didn't think

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he was gonna hop in this space, but I was hoping he would agree

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to a debate with Alex moderating.
I think that's what Alex. Alex said

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00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,759
that too. He's like I'll moderate
Fox won actual five dollars. David I

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00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,680
used to say that he was the
son of God. He's a goofy guy.

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00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,519
Jay Ruck. Try to remember the
first time. The first time I

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00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:38,599
saw David Ike was like probably two
thousand and three, and I saw a

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00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:47,079
presentation that he did on like you
know, occult esoteric symbolism, and I

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00:25:47,079 --> 00:25:49,279
thought it was an interesting presentation.
I watched the whole three or four hour

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00:25:49,319 --> 00:25:52,640
It's like one of his earliest,
you know, three four hour talks.

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00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:56,119
And then I turn to remember,
I don't remember when the first guy.

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The first book I got was The
Biggest Lie I think, which is his

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00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:06,519
nine to eleven book. I probably
got that in two thousand and seven,

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00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,599
six seven, And then I remember
reading another one of his books. I

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00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,519
think I read the one of the
Biggest Secret around that time. And then

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00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:19,799
I read his Perception Deception book,
which is like seven hundred pages. I

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00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:25,039
think I read all that. So
you know, I've I've and I've heard

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00:26:25,079 --> 00:26:30,599
Alex's interview David Ike probably probably seventy
times over the years. I mean I've

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00:26:30,599 --> 00:26:36,240
heard I've heard a lot so and
I remember when remember when David I was

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00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,720
sold out Wimberley Stadium. I listened
to that whole watched that whole talk,

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00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,960
which was like six seven eight hours. So you know, I've been a

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00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:48,279
long time. I've been familiar with
David Ike stuff for a long time,

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00:26:48,359 --> 00:27:07,319
almost probably twenty years. Cryptonomics,
what's up, dude, Hey j I

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00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:12,559
just had two questions. Hopefully I
can get you guys. This is an

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00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:17,599
answer from you, guys, based
off of your understanding. The first question

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00:27:17,759 --> 00:27:25,160
is what is consciousness? Well,
in our in our worldview, it's one

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00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,960
of the traits or properties that humans
have that is proper to their nature.

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00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:36,319
So it's something fundamental to human nature. It's something that can never be lost

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00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,880
from human nature in the sense of
like the mind. So whether you're in

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00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,680
a waking state or a sleeping state, if you mean conscious or unconscious,

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00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,920
that's a different sense of mind.
For us, mind is an essential property.

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00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,480
It's the it's the inner storehouse of
the ideas, right, it's the

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00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:59,079
the you could call it. You
could say it's consciousness if you mean mind.

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00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,319
So for us, it's a it's
the mental state property human nature,

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00:28:03,519 --> 00:28:10,640
and every person has a mind,
correct, Okay, So with consciousness be

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the same as the soul or is
that two different things. We would say

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00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:19,559
there's more to the soul than just
mind. Mind is a key element,

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00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:25,359
but sometimes soul is also in the
Orthodox tradition a little closer to the Hebrew

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00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,519
idea of also including the heart.
So the soul is mind and heart.

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00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,000
That is the immaterial component of the
human being, the other component being across

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00:28:34,039 --> 00:28:38,880
the body. I would add to
that, I'd say conscious is the property

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00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:45,319
of mind. Yeah, but strictly
speaking, it's philosophically defined, is a

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00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:52,000
qualitative awareness of what it's like to
experience something. So animals, even though

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00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:56,160
they don't have mind human minds,
they have consciousness. They have an awareness,

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00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:02,559
but they don't have discursive reason and
abstract reasoning, rationality and things like

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00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:07,519
that. So why that's really important
is there's different levels of consciousness. Yeah,

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00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,319
so that means that and we have
that too. You can notice that

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00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,559
you're aware of when you're drinking a
coffee or something like that, but you're

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00:29:15,559 --> 00:29:23,440
also aware, I hope, so
the thoughts and reasonings and discurssive and inferences

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00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:30,039
that you make too, there's there's
an awareness that. So generally speaking,

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00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:37,519
conscious means it's a mental property.
Our cognitive property of being aware and having

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00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:42,359
a what it's a qualitative, what
it's like experience of things. And if

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00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:48,720
you're looking for an Orthodox book on
that, that's a good introduction. That's

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00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:56,279
brief. Saint John Damascus's book Fountain
of Knowledge defines all of our Orthodox ideas

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00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,480
philosophically, so he talks about what
we think about mind, what the soul

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00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:06,759
is, what virtues are, what
logic is for us. It's a great

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00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:11,359
introduction. Okay, So would it
be fair to say that the soul and

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00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:18,920
the consciousness are essentially a one one, one entity or one thing which is

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00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:25,119
energy since energy does not die,
as we know that, the Orthodox tradition

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00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,759
does speak of the noetic energy,
So yes, the energy. Yeah,

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00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:36,559
that's basically. I wouldn't. I
wouldn't reduce though, mind too an energy

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00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:42,559
because energies typically for us are operations
of the thing. So you have me,

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00:30:42,759 --> 00:30:49,440
we wouldn't call soul or consciousness thing. It's that which the person has.

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00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,200
Yes, yeah, I mean,
well, I went through a lot

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00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:59,079
in my life that I kind of
experienced an outer body experiment where I was

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00:30:59,079 --> 00:31:03,640
in coma for two weeks, and
that's what led me to like religions,

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00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:07,119
and I began studying all religions and
then I came to a conclusion. I

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00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,559
was like, Okay, well,
obviously our body dies in here. We're

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00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:15,599
here for a purpose and whatnot.
So my understanding is obviously the soul is

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00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,759
like a it's an energy source that
obviously does not die, and it stores

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00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:23,680
all the data. Everything that we
do in this world is potentially recorded on

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00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:29,759
on that energy. I would agree
with that. I agree there's also a

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00:31:29,839 --> 00:31:34,160
heart that there's it's more than just
like consciousness and like IQ. We also

402
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,640
think that the because I mean,
you could think about the organs that we

403
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,319
have, right, so you know
mind, mind would correspond to brain,

404
00:31:42,519 --> 00:31:48,440
but we also have heart, which
corresponds to heart. Yeah, I mean

405
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:55,519
essentially they all need like energy,
right, whatever we eat we consume where

406
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,119
truly, yeah, we we do. Yeah power those engines through through the

407
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,519
energy that we Yeah, but we
also think that we are made to have

408
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:10,480
uncreated energy as well as part of
that synergy. So Robert keeps speaking,

409
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,240
speaking up here, he wants to
speak. He keeps messaging me, what's

410
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:25,839
up man? You got a immune? Oh? Hey, Jay, I

411
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:34,799
was just wondering if you ever read
this book called the Zoha and it's a

412
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:39,000
Judaic book that they believe came from
the word of Moses, but it looks

413
00:32:39,079 --> 00:32:43,599
like it was written in the sixteen
hundreds of us some crazy REBBLI yeah,

414
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,519
in this book, I don't think
it's a mosaic text. I'm familiar with

415
00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:52,519
it. It has it has it
talks about a simulation theory in in the

416
00:32:52,519 --> 00:32:59,039
book. I was just wondering if
if you thought I thought that had any

417
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:04,680
correlation. I remember Michi Okaku says
that something about how he links some of

418
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,359
his physics theories to Kabbala and Zohar. So I'm not surprised, but it

419
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:15,799
makes sense. I mean, Zohar
is again like the other Kabbalistic stuff.

420
00:33:15,799 --> 00:33:21,880
It's just judaic version of gnosticism,
even according to the top like scholars of

421
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:32,559
Kabala. Is that it. I
was also gonna say it. Do you

422
00:33:32,599 --> 00:33:38,640
think it's interesting that the CIA released
this simulation theory of old people? Yeah?

423
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:44,799
I think that is sus I mean
I don't believe in simulation theories,

424
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:51,440
so I think it is being promoted
from the top down. Absolutely. Anyway,

425
00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:58,480
good questions, micro Did you want
to come back in? Did you

426
00:33:58,519 --> 00:34:04,240
speak yet? We got a bunch
of people want to speak? Now got

427
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,039
an? I'm mute. What do
you see? Where do you only see

428
00:34:07,119 --> 00:34:10,840
who gets this wants to speak?
I mean I see all the people requesting

429
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,719
to speak. So there's like thir
thirteen or there's thirteen. Now what do

430
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,440
you mean? Well, I can't
see you. Oh well, yeah,

431
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,679
I'm the host, so I see
a different screen. Go ahead, man,

432
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:28,760
what's up? We gotta I'm mute. Yeah, I'm mute. Man.

433
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,159
You're raising your hand, but you're
on you're on deck. What's up?

434
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:37,239
I'm mute? Yeah, okay,
well you're not unmuting, so I

435
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,079
can't. I don't know what to
tell you. We're going to people who

436
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:53,559
have let's see, Goldfish is next
up? What's up? You gotta unmute

437
00:34:53,559 --> 00:34:59,559
Goldfish? Okay, I just got
just got you. So I had a

438
00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:07,840
question of about Orthodoxy orthosis in Orthodoxy
and noses and not not regarding the belief

439
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:13,320
with one between Oneism and tooism,
where you know, Orthodoxy believes in are

440
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,519
created and created dynamic, but more
as in the difference in practice, if

441
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:24,280
we're more along the practical sense than
the the the philosophical sense. Yeah,

442
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:32,920
I think g nosis doesn't include the
idea that you need to become morally renovated,

443
00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:38,760
repent uh and live according to the
Ten Commandments and you know, participate

444
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:44,639
in the sacraments of the Orthodox Church. Nosis doesn't care about that. Nosis

445
00:35:44,679 --> 00:35:52,679
is interested in attaining knowledge, secret
knowledge, occult knowledge, and mystical experiences

446
00:35:52,840 --> 00:36:04,880
so different that's why we're trinked hearing
incarnationalists that knowledge is just a it's just

447
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,159
could be an illusion between your two
years. The idea is to take what's

448
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:16,639
true and beautiful and and good and
incarnate it so that it changes the very

449
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:22,000
being of your of yourself, so
it's useless and doesn't mean like facts in

450
00:36:22,039 --> 00:36:28,440
your head are useless unless it actually
changes your ontology. Well, the reason

451
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,199
I bring it up is because it's
it's it seems to be one of the

452
00:36:30,519 --> 00:36:37,599
weaknesses that it gets it gets exploited
in Christian faith that allows people to include

453
00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:43,639
or to manipulate the faith in order
to permit things from outside the faith to

454
00:36:44,199 --> 00:36:47,719
change what it's supposed to mean.
And so theosis I viewed it almost as

455
00:36:49,159 --> 00:36:52,599
I tried to rationalize it as a
as a two way street, with theosis

456
00:36:52,679 --> 00:36:58,719
being a person, a person kind
of attaining some form of the divine,

457
00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:05,159
whereas when Gnostics attempt to bring down
the divine rather than as sent up to

458
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,920
it. And I don't know if
that makes sense, but that's the only

459
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,159
way I was able able to kind
of rationalize it. I'll look all the

460
00:37:12,159 --> 00:37:14,599
conversation, but I appreciate your answering, your time pation. Yeah, thank

461
00:37:14,639 --> 00:37:20,599
you. Interesting question. We'll see
next up. Is I mean, there's

462
00:37:20,599 --> 00:37:23,280
a whole bunch of people. Now, let's see Rico the cat. Mm

463
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:37,039
hmm, yeah, what's I mean? Hey, Jay, love your stuff.

464
00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:40,719
By the way, So today I
was just watching an interview Alex O'Connor

465
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,599
dropped with the guy from Esoterica and
they were basically just talking about the kind

466
00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:52,199
of historical development of Judaism and Christianity. So they kind of went into how

467
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,039
you always was like the thunder God
and a god amongst many, then went

468
00:37:55,039 --> 00:38:01,280
into Monotheism. They then went into
Christianity and how there were multiple like Jesus

469
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:07,840
like figures from Galilee, and they
then went into Gnoscissism and how Nacissism seemed

470
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:13,159
to be, you know, one
of the big contenders against Christianity in Europe.

471
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,679
And they had an interesting part about
how orthodoxy went out, and so

472
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:22,559
I was just wondering, how how
does the church kind of take the academic

473
00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:28,760
view of like the anthropology of the
religion, How do you guys reconcile it,

474
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,800
because they seem to insinuate in the
interview that it's a bit of like

475
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,400
a post hawk rationalization. So they'd
say that like Christianity would like look back

476
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:42,239
at the past and then kind of
make it fit Christianity. But from listening

477
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,239
to you, I don't get that
sense. I get the sense that it's

478
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:50,639
much more realistic and that right,
we don't we accept the narrative as is

479
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:57,159
given in Divine Revelation that the original
religion was not animism and then polytheism and

480
00:38:57,159 --> 00:39:02,639
then monotheism. That's the typical,
you know, comparative religion scholars account of

481
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:10,000
how mankind progressed. We think that
it was trinitarian theology that evolved into paganism

482
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:17,480
and polytheism. So all of the
world religions are deviations from a primeval you

483
00:39:17,519 --> 00:39:22,039
could say, trinitarian theology. So
it's the opposite of what they think,

484
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,840
you know what. I like that
point. I was listening to Rachel and

485
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,559
Shoes making this point, and then
my friend Ryan and I were talking about

486
00:39:30,639 --> 00:39:37,039
this. The reason why these people
come to these conclusions is we're taught in

487
00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:44,719
school like we're moderns. We work
backwards through history. We start from our

488
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:50,920
presuppositions now with our lenses, and
then we go back and reread through history,

489
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,119
when actually we should be doing the
opposite. We should be starting from

490
00:39:54,119 --> 00:40:00,920
the beginning, trying to throw out
as many presuppositions as possible and then try

491
00:40:01,079 --> 00:40:07,480
to get into the spirit and ethos
of what was it these people were thinking.

492
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,039
So we're doing it all backwards now. I try to do this in

493
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:14,599
schooling by like let's say, let's
start with the pre Socratics and work.

494
00:40:14,679 --> 00:40:20,039
But I was just thinking about when
you mentioned that, why do they in

495
00:40:20,119 --> 00:40:25,599
these religious departments, why do they
come up with this because they've been they've

496
00:40:25,639 --> 00:40:32,199
been conditioned to work backwards that my
presuppositions. From here, I will read

497
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:37,719
back in through history, and then
that's where you get all these problems.

498
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:43,320
Well, you see, if I
do that, then Christianity evolved out of

499
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:49,559
this and this. But if you
start from the beginning without that, for

500
00:40:49,679 --> 00:40:52,320
those prepects, it's very clear what
the story is. And for example,

501
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:57,920
if you see the video I did
the Hebrew Trinity or the Jewish Trinity.

502
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,880
You'll note that that's my open any
statement to Daniel Kikikachu and our Muslim debate.

503
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,960
Uh. The whole point of that
opening statement is to refute Daniel's idea

504
00:41:07,079 --> 00:41:14,519
that Old Testament Jewish theology was generic
Unitarianism. Therefore Islam is in continuity with

505
00:41:14,599 --> 00:41:23,039
generic Unitarianism. That all falls apart
if the Hebraic revelation is trinitarian. Okay,

506
00:41:23,639 --> 00:41:30,719
understood, And that was the whole
statement. Absolutely, because Monotheism doesn't

507
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,519
even come the word and term an
idea is even coment about until the seventeen

508
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,079
it's a really late Monotheism as a
term is really late, and doctor bo

509
00:41:38,159 --> 00:41:45,400
Branson has shown that. Yeah.
They mentioned in a part of the interview

510
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,840
that they go into some really interesting
bits. They mentioned that they found a

511
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:55,440
temple that was like a proto Christian
temple that had cannabinoid resin in in some

512
00:41:55,519 --> 00:42:00,199
of like the cracks of the brick, and so they were like, can

513
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:05,920
you know, proto Christianity to to
Shamonic rituals and things like that. There

514
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:15,760
was also a mention of of how
when they first introduced Yahweh as thee that

515
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:20,960
when they introduced Yuahweh as the only
monotheistic god, that they also like credit

516
00:42:21,079 --> 00:42:24,639
him with with evil, and then
that was that that created the necessity for

517
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:30,079
Satan, and so Satan only came
about because you know, there was that

518
00:42:30,119 --> 00:42:34,039
put them in a theological kind of
corner saying that, you know, this

519
00:42:34,159 --> 00:42:38,440
god was responsible for everything good and
evil and so, yeah, exactly,

520
00:42:38,519 --> 00:42:44,920
that's just kind of the standard academic
account of you know, comparative religion.

521
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:51,079
But if you challenge the presuppositions as
to why they think that most comparative religion

522
00:42:51,119 --> 00:42:54,960
scholars are not fluent in epistemology or
logic, and they would crumble pretty quick.

523
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:05,280
Uh, let's see, miss and
mister Anderson, Hey, what's it

524
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,719
going? Uh? Yeah, So
I was wondering the other day. I

525
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:14,880
was listening to one of your life
streams and you were talking to someone that

526
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:23,159
sounded like they're from the UK Protestant
about Nestorianism. Uh is this like on

527
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:30,320
topic? No? But what's what's
it about? Oh? Well, well

528
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:35,800
I think he was, you know, he was saying, the scriptures say

529
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,159
the spirit Remember this guy, I
remember this? Yeah, right? So

530
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,599
and uh and you said, I
think you said something like, so you

531
00:43:43,679 --> 00:43:47,679
believe the divine essence left the body
of Christ. That's even a worst heresy,

532
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,360
right, So I'm and I'm wondering. I'm just trying to understand this.

533
00:43:52,519 --> 00:43:58,000
So when so I understand that there's
two natures and one person in Christ,

534
00:43:58,039 --> 00:44:01,480
and when he died, his human
soul was severed from his human body.

535
00:44:01,679 --> 00:44:06,880
Right, so where And I don't
know if this is a dumb question,

536
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,559
but where where was the essence of
the divine essence at that point?

537
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:15,960
And the divine essence is omnipresent,
and John Damascus makes that argument as to

538
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:21,000
how it could never be severed because
it's omnipresent, there's no place to go,

539
00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:22,519
and he's you know, you can
cite David if I could descend to

540
00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:25,960
shield, where how can I flee
from your presence? If I go to

541
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,280
shield, you are there? So
John Damascus says there was no point ever

542
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:35,079
at which the divine was severed from
the human nature, even when the human

543
00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:37,559
soul was severed from the human body, because the divine person of the logos

544
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:44,159
is the person to the human soul
that descends into hades. Okay, there's

545
00:44:44,199 --> 00:44:46,800
a great prayer and liturgy that I
do too, in the tune with the

546
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:52,920
body and soul. Yes, in
Hades, with the soul, in paradise

547
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,119
with the thief, together with the
Father and the Son. Oh you who

548
00:44:57,119 --> 00:45:00,599
are bound this? Yeah? This
is this is that is for what Father

549
00:45:00,639 --> 00:45:05,239
Deacon said right there, is expressing
exactly the argument that John Damascus makes in

550
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:10,559
book three at the very end about
the death of Christ. So is it

551
00:45:12,559 --> 00:45:17,400
inaccurate or wrongheaded to think of it
to say like that the divine essence was

552
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:22,320
then present just as much in the
body, the physical body of Christ,

553
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:27,440
as he was everywhere in the whole
universe. Yeah? Yeah, John,

554
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,719
If you read John one, John
makes this point there where he says that

555
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,719
he says in the beginning was the
word words with the God? The word

556
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,559
was God. Then he says that
we beheld him in the flesh, and

557
00:45:37,559 --> 00:45:40,880
then he goes on to say that
he was in the bosom of the Father

558
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:46,199
even when he was with us in
the flesh. Gotcha, Okay, Well

559
00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:49,639
that was it for me. I
really appreciate it. Great question, sure,

560
00:45:53,639 --> 00:46:10,480
Boycott BUCkies, you got mute man. Yeah, So I had a

561
00:46:10,559 --> 00:46:15,679
question or a line of thinking somewhat
along the lines. But Lucas was talking

562
00:46:15,679 --> 00:46:23,159
about. So when I'm thinking about
a simulation a way to go about,

563
00:46:23,559 --> 00:46:30,400
I feel like branching beyond just the
thought that we're all sort of in this

564
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:39,559
giant sort of deal is like stuff
in the realm of the occult and whatnot.

565
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:45,639
And in terms of I'm not sure
if you're familiar with Ed and Lorraine

566
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:50,440
Warren at all, this stuff like
the Conjuring movies, Yeah, some of

567
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,800
that, some of what they got
into has been an interesting way to kind

568
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:59,559
of look at and think about,
you know, spirituality and God and getting

569
00:46:59,559 --> 00:47:05,039
into this realm of stuff like beyond
the simulation and so like stuff like astral

570
00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:09,079
projection and the CIA coming out with
like declassified documents on that and then that

571
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:14,519
being legit. And obviously there's stuff
like witchcraft. All this stuff is real

572
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:19,280
and does exist, but stuff in
the realm of like you have like Lorraine

573
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:24,079
Warrened someone who's like a clairvoyant or
whatever, who's like spiritually gifted quote unquote,

574
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:30,119
and so these sorts of people who
have like tapped into this you could

575
00:47:30,119 --> 00:47:32,800
say, like third dimension or spiritual
realm that we don't see, but that's

576
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:38,400
like somehow fully intertwined and inter worked
with everything we see now is something that

577
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:43,679
I think is pretty fascinating, especially
in the realm of like what we're kind

578
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,960
of seeing now with universalism and like
the modern manifestations of nosis and narcissism,

579
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:53,960
like in the realm of like,
so you have this new Age sort of

580
00:47:54,039 --> 00:47:59,360
fat that's going on where people are
tapping into like tarot cards and all this

581
00:47:59,519 --> 00:48:04,239
crap. But this I was talking
to a buddy, and it's almost like

582
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,639
you, Liken you, there's this
comparison where I look at agnosticism versus atheism,

583
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:15,320
and I say, agnosticism is almost
worse than atheism because the agnostics aren't

584
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,079
willing to take the step to deny
the God that the atheists, for whatever

585
00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:22,639
reason in and of themselves, that
they have some gripe with God, they're

586
00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:25,840
at least saying taking that step to
deny him, Whereas, like I guess

587
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:31,440
agnostics in the realm of like being
better than atheists would be these sort of

588
00:48:31,519 --> 00:48:36,400
New Age fats where people are trying
to tap into things like higher knowledge,

589
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:42,119
stuff like the spiritual realm and whatnot, like seance is and so like It's

590
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:46,199
interesting with Ed and Lorraine Warren because
they were in this sort of weird sort

591
00:48:46,199 --> 00:48:50,840
of third party space, not endorsed
by the church, but like sort of

592
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,280
like so I was reading one of
their books where they had a priest and

593
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:59,440
they were doing an extorcism and sort
of not the strict Roman rite, but

594
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:06,039
they were doing like a deliverance prayer
type style exorcism where what are the priests

595
00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:10,960
actually functioned as a medium for the
demon to go through while they were exercising

596
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,719
the demon from another from the person
who was possessed, and so stuff like

597
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:20,239
this is like they would, I
guess one of their worst cases, they

598
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,920
showed up to a house where someone
would had a haunting or whatever, and

599
00:49:23,039 --> 00:49:29,960
to gauge the situation of demonic infestation
or whatever, Lorraine I guess, brought

600
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,280
in a medium and they held a
seance and then all hell broke loose and

601
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:37,639
so like stuff like this is just
interesting in terms of thinking about because because

602
00:49:37,679 --> 00:49:43,360
nowadays you see this new ageism and
universalism sort of this idea that like you

603
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,119
can tap into a good outside of
the place where the good resides in and

604
00:49:47,159 --> 00:49:51,920
of itself, in the truth,
which is Orthodoxy and whatnot, and so

605
00:49:52,039 --> 00:49:58,199
you have this so in the realm
of like hesechism, it's something I've been

606
00:49:59,159 --> 00:50:04,079
kind of fast with in terms of
Orthodoxy and whatnot. And like this division

607
00:50:04,159 --> 00:50:09,719
between like one true Church, Roman
Catholicism, Greek. They say they look

608
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:15,639
at like Hesochism and say that's like
heretical or Orthodox or schismatic, et cetera.

609
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:21,239
But also the Greek Orthodox are in
communion with Rome. And so if

610
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:25,199
you're saying Hesicism is heretical while they're
in communion to an extent, you like,

611
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,639
it's self defeating in a way.
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't

612
00:50:28,639 --> 00:50:32,280
make any sense for Rome to think
that, you know, Palam Moss and

613
00:50:32,679 --> 00:50:37,440
the you know, Eastern Church fathers
are heretics for centuries and then for the

614
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:42,639
interests of ecumenism under I guess it
was John Paul the second. Oh,

615
00:50:42,679 --> 00:50:45,079
now they're saints. They're cool now. I mean, this is totally incoherent,

616
00:50:45,199 --> 00:50:55,599
exactly, Tommy Tucker, what's up? The topic is same theory,

617
00:50:55,679 --> 00:51:02,440
David, Agnosticism, Platonism, God
the Matrix. You gotta unmute, man,

618
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:22,159
Tommy, are gonna mute all right? Next up? Lazarus. Dude

619
00:51:22,199 --> 00:51:30,880
just got raised glue. Yo.
Hey ja, I'm a big fan,

620
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:36,920
sir. What's up man, I'm
a big fan of narcissism. Okay,

621
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:42,880
what's the problem with nacissism. Well, the arguments I gave earlier is that

622
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:49,519
it ends up being kind of relativistic, it ends up being you know,

623
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:54,800
no real coherent ethic, Like I
don't agree with that at all. Okay,

624
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,679
Well, what's the basis? I
mean, if this reality is an

625
00:51:58,679 --> 00:52:01,679
illusion, why would we think if
there's anything wrong in this in this reality?

626
00:52:04,159 --> 00:52:07,239
Why is one action bad versus one
action good? If this reality is

627
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:12,800
is bad, Well, it's not
that it's bad, you know, gnosticism.

628
00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:15,960
Why you know you put words in
my gnostic mouth over here? You

629
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:21,360
know, are you trolling? I'm
serious, It's not necessarily bad. I

630
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,079
mean, it's the gnostic view is
that this world is bad. It's a

631
00:52:23,079 --> 00:52:28,880
prison evil. Physicality is evil.
So I mean it's you know, it's

632
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,760
everything's relative, right, I mean, an actual prison is more than reality.

633
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:37,000
All right, you're trolling? So
trolling? What does it even mean?

634
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,559
What what is that? What does
that even mean? Like you don't

635
00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:50,719
know my own honest opinion, that's
really funny trolling? What does that even

636
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:52,800
mean? Like he doesn't know what
it means? Can read this real quick?

637
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:59,079
Just what is it. I was
like, you know, I've written

638
00:52:59,079 --> 00:53:05,360
about it, Vogeland's distinction kind of
six characteristics of gnosticism. Yeah. Absolutely,

639
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:09,159
How does vogelan the famous philosopher,
how does he describe it? Yeah?

640
00:53:09,199 --> 00:53:13,239
And it makes it really good.
Just in case people are getting confused,

641
00:53:13,519 --> 00:53:16,960
like, how does it different?
Christianity, says number one must first

642
00:53:17,039 --> 00:53:23,280
be pointed out that the gnostic is
dissatisfied with his situation. This in itself

643
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:29,880
is not especially surprising. We all
have cause to be not completely satisfied with

644
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,719
one aspect or another of the situation, which we find ourselves too. Not

645
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:40,480
quite so understandable is the second aspect
of the gnostic attitude, the belief that

646
00:53:40,519 --> 00:53:45,199
the drawback to the situation can be
attributed to the fact that the world is

647
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:54,679
intrinsically poorly organized, or it's a
simulation. For it's likewise possible to assume

648
00:53:54,880 --> 00:54:00,360
that the order of being as it
is given to us men, whatever its

649
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,719
origin is, to be sought,
is good, and that it is we

650
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:09,159
human beings who are inadequate. But
Gnostics, they're not so inclined to discover

651
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:15,239
that the human beings in general,
and they themselves are in particular, are

652
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:21,920
inadequate. If in any given situation
something is not as it should be,

653
00:54:22,119 --> 00:54:24,480
then it's the faults to be found
in the wickedness of the world. Yes,

654
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,440
zero point three. The third characteristic
is the belief that salvation from evil

655
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:36,639
of the world is possible. Four. From this fall as the belief that

656
00:54:36,679 --> 00:54:42,920
the order of being will have to
be changed in a historical process from a

657
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:47,320
wretched world to a good one must
evolve historically. This assumption is not altogether

658
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:53,559
self evident because the Christian solution might
also be considered. Namely, the world

659
00:54:53,599 --> 00:55:00,159
throughout history will remain as it is
now if I could just pause right there,

660
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,639
what the historical thing? And this
is where you see the AI is

661
00:55:02,679 --> 00:55:07,440
that they believe that the Gnostics will
actually evolve the world and kind of alchemical

662
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:15,519
rising, the great work is to
transmute this world. Yes, where the

663
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:19,800
Christian will say no, the world
will remain the same. The Christian solution

664
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:25,400
is that man's salvation is brought about
through grace and death. So notice we

665
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,920
go the other way. Yeah,
we actually look into the grave at the

666
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:36,719
cross right. Five. With this
fit point, we come to the Gnostic

667
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,880
trait in the narrow sense, the
belief that a change in the order of

668
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:45,639
being lie in the realm of human
action, that this salvational act is possible

669
00:55:45,679 --> 00:55:51,360
through man's own effort nosis right six. If it is all possible, however,

670
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,519
so to work a structural change in
the given order of being that we

671
00:55:54,519 --> 00:55:59,719
can be satisfied with it is a
perfect one. Then it becomes a task

672
00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:04,320
of who the enlightened, the David, ike's the Gnostics to seek out the

673
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:08,960
perception for such a change. Knowledge
gnosis is the method. Right, Oh,

674
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:14,239
I've got the key. You see
through that it's actually a matrix and

675
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,920
a simulation. I've got the key. You're all deceived, right, it's

676
00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:23,639
the ayahuasca that's going to take us
and transform and give us knowledge. And

677
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:30,519
this construction is of the formula for
self in world salvation. So I'm saving

678
00:56:30,559 --> 00:56:37,239
myself and I'm saving the world.
It's thoroughly egotistical and demonic in that sense.

679
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:42,079
So it's called the tailtale signs of
like the demonic as well as the

680
00:56:42,079 --> 00:56:45,320
gnostics. Readiness to come forward is
what. Oh, here i am the

681
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:51,719
prophet who will proclaimed his knowledge about
the salvation of mankind. So the prophet's

682
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,159
the Antichrist. So this whole thing
is Antichrist anyways, that's from science politics

683
00:56:55,159 --> 00:56:59,960
and gnoscissism. And I think it's
just you know, people get Christian,

684
00:57:00,039 --> 00:57:02,679
Indian and confused. Why is it
bad? It's like it's totally deminded.

685
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:12,039
Are ye all those all those tenants
are fundamentally against our view. For the

686
00:57:12,079 --> 00:57:16,360
people asking what happened to last night's
funny stream about the Fresh and Fit event,

687
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:22,000
and uh, David Ike responded the
original David Ike thing and talking about

688
00:57:22,079 --> 00:57:25,559
Luke. I moved it to Rock
Finn because I couldn't get the when I

689
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:30,400
played the Wes Watson clip, Uh, he kept saying the F word and

690
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:35,360
I don't mean the F word that
rhymes with Bucky. He kept saying the

691
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:39,000
other F word that got their stream
pulled down and I couldn't figure out how

692
00:57:39,039 --> 00:57:43,880
to mute just that part. So
I just moved the whole stream over to

693
00:57:44,039 --> 00:57:45,719
Rock Fin. So if you don't
want to watch that stream, it was

694
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:53,000
pretty funny. We were commenting on
Wes's attack, I guess on Andrew and

695
00:57:53,079 --> 00:57:57,159
Jimbob, So if you want to
watch that stream, it's right there on

696
00:57:57,239 --> 00:58:04,719
Rock Finn. You're right, He's
like the diabolical twin of Father Moses.

697
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:07,599
I see Father Moses in there.
Well his boy like, like, if

698
00:58:07,639 --> 00:58:08,679
you just listen to his voice,
you'd be like, is that Father Moses

699
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:15,599
sounds like you? But he's like
the evil version? All right, So

700
00:58:15,639 --> 00:58:21,039
let's see, we're gonna move on
to next discussion is let's see who's been

701
00:58:21,159 --> 00:58:31,880
waiting. Hear Boris Boris and the
doors in the Doge. Hey guys,

702
00:58:32,119 --> 00:58:40,119
thanks for bringing me on Happy Palm
Sunday. Yeah, yeah, ja.

703
00:58:40,239 --> 00:58:45,440
I just wanting to tell you you
was one of the first guys that I

704
00:58:45,519 --> 00:58:53,920
listened to on YouTube that introduced me
to Orthodoxy and uh. I first I

705
00:58:53,960 --> 00:59:00,360
started going to Orthodox Church back in
twenty twenty before the pandemic, and then

706
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:06,119
I was baptizing Chris Mate it May
of twenty one. So I just wanted

707
00:59:06,119 --> 00:59:10,920
to personally thank you for you my
inspiration for coming to Orthodossia. Thanks man,

708
00:59:12,039 --> 00:59:15,880
I'll bless you many years. Appreciate
that. Yes, Sir, and

709
00:59:15,199 --> 00:59:20,519
his best decision of my life totally
changed me. I was raised Southern Baptists

710
00:59:20,519 --> 00:59:24,559
and had about nine years where I
was just searching. I didn't have any

711
00:59:24,639 --> 00:59:31,199
peas just everything I turned to.
I mean, I looked at h Paganism,

712
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:36,599
I looked at Buddhism, and I
was into Allen once for a long

713
00:59:36,679 --> 00:59:38,280
time. Yeah, we had a
couple of people calling in tonight who were

714
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:43,320
Allen watz Fince, yes, sir, and uh. Then I got a

715
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,199
puddy of mine. Nail, it's
a huge David Ike saying, and I

716
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:51,159
wanted him to listen to the strain. He was busy. But my question

717
00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:58,440
was, all right, hypothetically,
if if David Ike was to agree to

718
00:59:58,559 --> 01:00:05,199
it the paid what would be your
I guess main points that you would use

719
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:13,639
to undermine his worldview according to the
orthodox Christian perspective, Like I guess what

720
01:00:13,639 --> 01:00:20,039
would be the main two or three
points that you would come at him with

721
01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:28,360
and what was the easiest way to
show that his world views inconsistem and contradictory.

722
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:31,519
Thank you more, I appreciate that. If you scroll back to the

723
01:00:31,639 --> 01:00:37,639
very beginning, in the first thirty
minutes, I laid out about five things

724
01:00:37,639 --> 01:00:42,599
that I think were the key points
of problem, the key problem, five

725
01:00:42,679 --> 01:00:45,679
key problems for a gnostic worldview.
And then I contrast to those five key

726
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:52,119
problems with our worldview. So I
remember saying, I put a relativity when

727
01:00:52,119 --> 01:00:59,079
it comes to ethics and knowledge incoherence
when it comes to justifying how we would

728
01:00:59,079 --> 01:01:06,960
know that we're in a simulation,
that we're being duped a historical positions,

729
01:01:07,079 --> 01:01:09,599
which would mean that your life,
your past, your history really are pointless

730
01:01:09,719 --> 01:01:16,519
relativized because this world is essentially right
of prison. It's bad. So that

731
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:21,239
then kind of means that when my
life, my past, my country,

732
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,559
my nation, my family, all
these things are all part of the delusion,

733
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:30,639
part of the simulation. So yeah, if you scroll back, you'll

734
01:01:30,639 --> 01:01:34,119
see those five principles that that I
listed, that would be that would be

735
01:01:34,119 --> 01:01:45,320
my five main kind of main critiques. Pavel, what's up? You got

736
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:49,639
an unmute man? Yeah, tonight
Actually, guys, if you didn't know,

737
01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:55,239
and shout out to our big crowd
that we got. Actually, tonight

738
01:01:55,360 --> 01:02:02,639
was my largest audience live yet.
Actually got up to twelve one and fifty

739
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:07,599
So I've never had that many live
except for like Maddal Hunting debate that was

740
01:02:07,639 --> 01:02:13,920
like four or five thousand lives.
So tonight was our biggest just random live

741
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:20,880
audience. Oh you're welcome, thank
you, thank you. Fdah Yeah,

742
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:30,679
okay, give me a second.
Are you there? What's going on?

743
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:37,000
This is I'm there but I'm not
not if English speakers, so you had

744
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:45,400
to write my question to you give
me a moment writing. Yeah, yeah,

745
01:02:46,639 --> 01:02:50,519
it's I can't I can't read it
right now, and I'm sorry.

746
01:02:50,599 --> 01:02:52,719
Let's move on. I'm not trying
to be me and it's going to come

747
01:02:53,559 --> 01:03:08,519
audio. Clad in purple? What's
up? Clad in purple? Yeah,

748
01:03:09,159 --> 01:03:20,159
Kotel sent his viewers over that popped
it over twelve fifty So what's up?

749
01:03:20,199 --> 01:03:25,480
Man? Right? So does Marcion
counts as part of the subject here?

750
01:03:27,119 --> 01:03:30,440
Yeah, I mentioned Marcian at the
very beginning. Yeah, yeah, just

751
01:03:30,559 --> 01:03:35,360
checking because it's not in the Martian. No, I think it counts.

752
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:39,000
Yeah, it counts, right,
So how do you answer like Marcian's charges

753
01:03:39,119 --> 01:03:44,760
that in Genesis Free God is walking
around the garden. So he's trapped in

754
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:49,440
a body and he's ignorant. He
he's asking did you eat the fruit?

755
01:03:49,559 --> 01:03:52,960
And where are you? And and
all that stuff. Right, So that's

756
01:03:52,039 --> 01:03:55,599
the that's the logos. That's Jesus, who's the same angel of the Lord,

757
01:03:55,639 --> 01:03:59,599
who has a form and walks around
throughout the Old Testament, like when

758
01:03:59,639 --> 01:04:03,880
he rests Jacob, when he appears
to Abraham, when he appears to Manoah

759
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:09,719
Samson's parents. And the purpose of
asking that question is not because he lacked

760
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:15,039
knowledge. It was a rhetorical question
to bring to recognition in the minds of

761
01:04:15,039 --> 01:04:20,119
Adam and Eve that they had sent
So those are really bad arguments, right.

762
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:25,440
And there's another guy I don't know
if you know about Julian, the

763
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:31,440
Apostles, the Neoplatonists. Yeah,
that guy wrote that in Genesis one,

764
01:04:31,559 --> 01:04:38,679
God's just God as like a lesser, because he's just shaping the waters and

765
01:04:38,679 --> 01:04:44,039
in the matter into he's not really
creating things. He's just transferred. So

766
01:04:44,119 --> 01:04:46,199
the book of Book of Maccabe's and
the Book of Hebrews say that he spoke

767
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:54,760
that world into existence. So,
in other words, we don't just take

768
01:04:54,800 --> 01:05:01,360
one book like the Bible is interpret
in a holistic canonical sense, so all

769
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:06,159
of the divine revelation tells us part
about the other parts. So I'm not

770
01:05:06,199 --> 01:05:12,360
going to interpret Genesis in exclusion to
what's in John one about all things being

771
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:15,159
created by the Logos, or what's
in Hebrews one about all reality in the

772
01:05:15,159 --> 01:05:19,000
world's coming to be through the Logos, or what's in you know, all

773
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:24,559
the other texts that describe Christ as
the Creator or what's in the Maccabees that

774
01:05:24,679 --> 01:05:30,480
God spoke reality in the creative world
into existence ex nilo. Okay, so

775
01:05:31,039 --> 01:05:35,039
just one last question I think Julian
pointed it out, is that why would

776
01:05:35,119 --> 01:05:41,360
the supreme creator of the universe just
ignore everyone except Israel and just allow everyone

777
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:45,840
else to worship idols right, worship
these faith God's Julian thinks that this God

778
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:51,800
is just another like Eddy, lesser
God Israel. Yeah, so the focus

779
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:58,039
on Israel was a pedagogical teaching lesson
for a time. And if you read

780
01:05:58,079 --> 01:06:01,320
Saint Cyril of Alexandria, he actually
that God didn't leave or forget all the

781
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:05,199
other nations. This is partly why
Christ preaches the Gospel to the dead.

782
01:06:05,719 --> 01:06:09,880
The descent of Christ into Hades is
the preaching of the Gospel to the dead,

783
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:13,039
which is mentioned in the Book of
Peter. Peter says he preached to

784
01:06:13,079 --> 01:06:16,119
the spirits in prison. It's part
of our belief that he descended into Hades.

785
01:06:16,159 --> 01:06:19,559
You can read that in book three
of John Damascus's on the Orthodox Faith.

786
01:06:21,199 --> 01:06:34,760
Let's see iconomat Noah M. How
do we argue against pantheism and the

787
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:39,920
pantheistic worldview Well, like when we
were talking to the guy they called in

788
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:43,360
earlier, Lucas, and he said
that he thinks God is existence, and

789
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,079
I said that, well, that
would also be a defeater for knowledge as

790
01:06:45,119 --> 01:06:48,800
well. If all of reality is
God, we can go back to some

791
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:51,719
of the same critiques of monism that
we gave earlier. Well, how would

792
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:55,960
we know? Why would we think
that all reality is God? I mean,

793
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:59,119
what does it even mean to say
that all reality is God? What

794
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:02,239
kind of a God? Because God, for example, doesn't have parts,

795
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:08,880
He doesn't change. Reality has parts, it changes, and so really we're

796
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:13,960
getting into an idea to where God
there basically has no significance. So are

797
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:17,599
we saying that rocks are personal,
that we have a relationship to to God.

798
01:07:17,719 --> 01:07:21,880
No, So these are different ways
that we would go about critiquing the

799
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:26,360
idea that all reality is God.
It just doesn't. It ends up being

800
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:31,280
kind of a nonsense statement. It
doesn't mean anything. Jason Allen twenty five

801
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:35,000
dollars. Thank you for this.
I appreciate the debate, open debate for

802
01:07:35,039 --> 01:07:39,800
him. It's very helpful. I
appreciate the topics. I hope you keep

803
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:42,679
doing these. Glority God, Holy
Week is going to be great this year.

804
01:07:43,039 --> 01:07:45,320
Thank you so much, Jason.
I appreciate that. Mail you twenty

805
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:49,079
five dollars. Is David Ike still
beefing? I mean, he hasn't replied

806
01:07:49,199 --> 01:07:56,840
since the two tweets Friday, so
I don't people say that he doesn't ever

807
01:07:57,199 --> 01:08:01,039
really respond, so I don't think
he's going to do it debate, but

808
01:08:01,199 --> 01:08:04,400
thank you for that comment there,
mail you, and thank you for the

809
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:08,960
too. Saw me. What's up
man? What's on your mind? Hey?

810
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:13,079
Jay? I heard you mentioned something
that was really interesting to me.

811
01:08:13,119 --> 01:08:16,359
I'm a big fan and I was
wondering if you could give me the base

812
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:24,640
videos to learn more about that.
I heard you mentioned that creation presupposes the

813
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:35,479
incarnation. Uh. I've talked about
that in maybe critiques of Tonism Logos and

814
01:08:36,039 --> 01:08:44,560
Logi videos Maximus Logos Logi. If
you looked that up, those videos would

815
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:51,760
cover that. But get Poniotis Nellis's
book Deification of Man because the first two

816
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:57,399
chapters are on that. Okay,
I really appreciate you, Jay, Thank

817
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:19,199
you later. Let's see welcome Father
Moses. What's on your mind? Gotta

818
01:09:19,239 --> 01:09:25,079
unmute if you wanted to speak,
we can't hear you. That's something it

819
01:09:25,079 --> 01:09:28,920
does something weird, I think with
my AirPods. But I was trying to

820
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:32,199
figure out who you guys were saying
that I sounded like the other day,

821
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:36,279
What was that about? Uh?
So I was at an event where Andrew

822
01:09:36,279 --> 01:09:40,760
and Jim Bob were on a panel. I was there because I thought originally

823
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:43,199
I was going to debate a Muslim
guy. That didn't ever occur. The

824
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:47,279
Muslim guy couldn't make it. The
panel ended up being about like masculinity issues

825
01:09:47,319 --> 01:09:55,159
and success and basically a giant buff
self help, prison speaker type of dude.

826
01:09:57,119 --> 01:10:00,720
Oh you know who Wes Watson is? Okay, yeah, I saw.

827
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:05,279
I think I saw the original Wes
Watson interview with Big Hurt like years

828
01:10:05,319 --> 01:10:10,439
ago. Yeah, yeah, I'm
familiar with it. He's a nutcase.

829
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:15,720
He's nuts. Yeah, he seemed
to get pretty mad over nothing. So

830
01:10:15,159 --> 01:10:18,760
yeah, it's just night. He's
just that's just like his shtick is that

831
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:25,399
he's just like angry and namped up
all the time and it's just whatever,

832
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:29,199
too much. He didn't father,
He didn't always used to be that way,

833
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:32,520
Like it seems like something he kind
of developed into. If you see

834
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:39,119
like earlier videos, he seems more
laid back, and yeah, I think

835
01:10:39,159 --> 01:10:42,520
it was when he switched over to
doing like Instagram videos of like trying to

836
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,720
get people hyped and they're like buying
his program or whatever. You know what

837
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:53,239
I'm saying that it seemed like he
just every day was just super aggressive or

838
01:10:53,279 --> 01:10:57,760
whatnot, and it totally changed the
tone of his videos. It's funny,

839
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:00,520
though, you see that before and
after photos ironic, right, because he's

840
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:04,560
like was in prison for slang and
dope or whatever, and then you see

841
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:10,159
these videos that you see all the
before and after photos and like clearly he's

842
01:11:10,199 --> 01:11:13,720
got people on the saw, so
it's like, oh, he's like,

843
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:15,199
oh he's still he's still a dope
dealer, you know what I mean.

844
01:11:15,279 --> 01:11:19,079
Like they're they're like, oh,
we're doing workout routines, we're getting serious

845
01:11:19,079 --> 01:11:24,000
about diet, and they're probably doing
some of that, but guys are looking

846
01:11:24,199 --> 01:11:29,039
awfully juicy after working with Wes Watson. So I didn't even realize who who

847
01:11:29,079 --> 01:11:30,319
some of these people were when I
was at that thing. I didn't know.

848
01:11:30,319 --> 01:11:32,399
I was like, I had just
didn't know who these people were,

849
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:38,399
but it was it was a wild
event. Did they did you were?

850
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:41,279
Were you on the panel? No? I thought originally I would I would

851
01:11:41,319 --> 01:11:43,439
be, but then when I got
there, I wasn't on the panel.

852
01:11:45,159 --> 01:11:47,079
Yeah, those guys are I don't
know. Somebody pointed out before. They're

853
01:11:47,119 --> 01:11:51,520
like they're all these guys that are
quote unquote high value. And somebody's like,

854
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:56,239
yeah, so you know, basically, like where all the women and

855
01:11:56,359 --> 01:12:01,479
children, you know, like you're
this this high value individual and women should

856
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:05,680
want you or whatever else, and
then so where are your actual like children

857
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:11,159
and offspring and blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah. Anyways, they don't

858
01:12:11,159 --> 01:12:16,880
have any of that, so ironically, so well, it's it's ridiculous.

859
01:12:17,239 --> 01:12:23,920
He was saying, if you don't
make if you don't make over one hundred

860
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,840
k, if you don't make this, you can't say it's all about the

861
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:30,600
money. And I'm like, i
identified, I'm like I've heard that argument

862
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:35,079
somewhere. I'm like, that's what
the feminists say about if you're not a

863
01:12:35,119 --> 01:12:39,359
woman, you can't tell her if
she can have an abortion or not.

864
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:45,119
I'm like, this is the stupidest
argument. That's like basically his argument.

865
01:12:45,199 --> 01:12:49,159
He later like lays it out that
well, if you haven't experienced something,

866
01:12:49,239 --> 01:12:53,960
you can't say it's bad. I'm
like this, if you haven't eaten poop?

867
01:12:54,079 --> 01:12:58,560
Guys, Wait, who said that? Who said that? Wes Watson

868
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:01,039
said that. Wes Watson through this
argument. But then I noticed I made

869
01:13:01,039 --> 01:13:04,399
a connection that I was like,
oh, that's what all the feminists say

870
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:10,479
too. It's interesting because he uh, he had a video not that long

871
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:13,800
ago where he was talking and he
was just like, nothing even makes me

872
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:18,399
happy. It's like I don't I
don't enjoy anything about life. And it

873
01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:21,479
was a really bizarre I mean,
it was a while back when I saw

874
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:26,399
it. I can't remember what I
actually thought, but it was it was

875
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:29,960
it was like, I don't know
how you're supposed to sell people on your

876
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:33,800
brand when you're basically like, my
life is more or less like meaningless.

877
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:41,079
I don't enjoy anything. And that's
uh, you should want you should buy

878
01:13:41,159 --> 01:13:46,039
into this brand for whatever reason of
discontentment. It's I don't know, it's

879
01:13:47,079 --> 01:13:51,319
like that's what demons do. It
is very demonic. I think, yeah,

880
01:13:51,359 --> 01:13:57,359
the originally it would have been an
interesting panel because you had two people

881
01:13:57,359 --> 01:14:02,239
who would have talked about, you
know, a virtue based worldview and our

882
01:14:02,319 --> 01:14:06,760
ethic and all of that. But
it got completely sidetracked from the very get

883
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:14,960
go because he just really wanted to
push his you know, screamstick and so

884
01:14:15,159 --> 01:14:17,239
basically the first twenty minutes is just
him screaming, and it kind of just

885
01:14:17,239 --> 01:14:21,560
got on people's nerves and it was
it was just weird. So it didn't

886
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:26,560
really go anywhere. It was weird
because he had this whole transition in his

887
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:32,319
thing where then he was dating some
some woman very unsavory and I don't know,

888
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:36,680
it's the whole thing. It just
it's like, yeah, anyways,

889
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:40,239
I could, I could talk about
his stuff, but it's just it's just

890
01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:45,399
it's bizarro land, Like how anybody
could take that stuff seriously? Yeah,

891
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:50,760
Well, what's interesting is that he
didn't want to talk about the philosophy of

892
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:55,279
what a successful man is and where
do we get our values from? And

893
01:14:55,800 --> 01:15:02,640
it was basically just just basically hedonism. So that's it. So yeah,

894
01:15:03,159 --> 01:15:08,920
weird, And that's what the other
guys were saying too, Like what do

895
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:14,520
you think success is being able to
do whatever I want? Yeah? Basically

896
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:17,560
Jim, Bob and uh uh and
and Andrew were the only ones that had

897
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:23,479
any anything beyond just like whatever I
want to do. I mean Myron at

898
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,760
least gave credence to God. But
I think Myron is some kind of Muslim.

899
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:30,159
So let's see, full throttle,
what's up man, what's on your

900
01:15:30,159 --> 01:15:46,399
mind? Okay, you gotta unmute? What's up man? Full throttle?

901
01:15:46,439 --> 01:16:00,319
You want to unmute? Oh?
Yeah, yeah, what's up? Oh

902
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:04,359
no, I'm just listening you guys
right now caught me off guard. So

903
01:16:05,159 --> 01:16:12,279
I just wanted to join the you
know, join the topic. Hopefully you

904
01:16:12,359 --> 01:16:16,199
guys are discussing. But yeah,
I anything on your mind related to gnosticism,

905
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:23,159
platonism, David. I was just
in my own little world right now.

906
01:16:23,239 --> 01:16:27,960
So you guys just continued talking and
okay, try it all right?

907
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:30,720
Thanks man? By you, Jared, what's up? Do? What's on

908
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:39,680
your mind? Father Moses? I'll
send you the clip. You'll see what

909
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:44,600
we're talking about. It's about a
eighteen minute exchange. It's a it was

910
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:47,840
pretty wild. We thought there was
going to be a fight for a second,

911
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:57,680
so it almost turned into a brawl. By you. Are you there?

912
01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:00,560
Do you want to say something?
You got on mute? I remember

913
01:17:00,039 --> 01:17:06,399
imute? Yeah, thanks, So
I was wondering what you're how you understood

914
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:13,319
In first John chapter three, verse
fifteen, it says, whosoever hateth his

915
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:16,359
brother is a murderer. And you
know that no murderer has eternal life abiding

916
01:17:16,399 --> 01:17:23,279
in him. And we know that
David committed murder, and I think the

917
01:17:23,319 --> 01:17:27,960
apostle Paul committed murder as well.
So how, yeah, you have to

918
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:34,680
repent. Do you think that they
have eternal life by repenting? Okay?

919
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:39,439
So, so once you repent,
you're not a murderer anymore, correct,

920
01:17:41,159 --> 01:17:49,720
Okay? And so someone that hates
his brother while he's in that in while

921
01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:54,439
he's committing that sin, he does
not have eternal life, but when he

922
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:58,960
repents from it, then he can
have eternal life. Yeah, I mean

923
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:01,760
that's why we we have to Jesus
says he that does not forgive from his

924
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:10,720
heart, right, you're still bound
by that, okay. And then verse

925
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:15,199
number nine says, whosoever is born
of God does not commit sin for seed

926
01:18:15,319 --> 01:18:17,439
or manith in him, and he
cannot sin because he is born of God.

927
01:18:18,199 --> 01:18:25,319
So do you think that someone who's
born of how would you understand that?

928
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:29,720
So ultimately, we're born of God
in the resurrection and will be perfect

929
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:32,680
in the resurrected state. But we're
working towards that in this life, in

930
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:38,800
this state. So we're not ever
going to be perfectly sinless, probably not

931
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:42,760
in this life, but we're working
towards that. So I don't think John

932
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:45,520
is literally saying that we're some sort
of Gnostic perfect ee. This was the

933
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:49,680
Gnostic view of the perfect die that
they had attained perfection, and in the

934
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:55,239
Orthodox view, if you look at
most of the best saints in terms of

935
01:18:55,239 --> 01:18:59,239
their sanctity, they did not feel
that they had attained perfection. They were

936
01:18:59,319 --> 01:19:05,640
very aware of their sinfulness. So
I would also say too that it's when

937
01:19:06,359 --> 01:19:11,640
when we're baptized, like we were
doing a baptist for you obviously Lazarus Saturday,

938
01:19:12,399 --> 01:19:17,119
and it's really interesting. I was
watching just the physical orientations, like

939
01:19:17,119 --> 01:19:23,640
we're doing the exorcism prayers and then
you turn to the west and you spit

940
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:30,000
on the devil and then you turn
east to cross to Christ and his resurrection,

941
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:34,800
and what you're doing is that you're
being born again, right born of

942
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:43,399
God. And in one sense,
I think that's what John's talking about.

943
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:49,880
Is that, Yeah, although yes, I technically speaking makes sense, Notice

944
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:56,359
my orientations different. And I think
if we think about like sin is like

945
01:19:56,479 --> 01:20:00,279
even the archer right, like missing
the mark. If we think of that's

946
01:20:00,279 --> 01:20:05,399
this kind of orientation, it's totally
different. Those born of God no longer

947
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:11,560
look the opposite way to the west. They look to the east, they

948
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:16,439
look to eternity, they look to
the Cross. And I would interpret I'm

949
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:20,199
like, I would think that would
be the orthodox understanding of Father. Moses

950
01:20:20,199 --> 01:20:24,159
could talk a little bit more about
that, but I don't think it's like

951
01:20:24,199 --> 01:20:27,399
in the strictest sense, like you
never make a mistake. I think it's

952
01:20:27,399 --> 01:20:34,319
a genuine and general ontological change in
orientation. You're no longer of the world,

953
01:20:34,399 --> 01:20:40,640
you're born into something different, and
you're orientated in a different way.

954
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:43,800
You're now towards the Cross. Father. You want to say anything about that,

955
01:20:45,239 --> 01:20:47,760
Yeah, I think the problem that
most people have with these quote unquote

956
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:55,479
ideas is that they divorce them from
the reality of relationship and then they try

957
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:59,279
to turn them into something mechanical.
So it's like in the first year of

958
01:20:59,279 --> 01:21:00,960
your marriage. I don't know,
Deacon, you've been married for a while,

959
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:03,359
but like in your first year of
your marriage, is like, did

960
01:21:03,359 --> 01:21:05,319
you love your wife? And you're
like, well, yeah, I loved

961
01:21:05,319 --> 01:21:09,560
her, And then it's like what
about five years in it's like, did

962
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:12,600
you still love her? You're like, well, actually loved her more.

963
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,880
And you're like, wait, so
you're saying you didn't love her the first

964
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:17,159
year. You're like, no,
no, no, I still loved her

965
01:21:17,159 --> 01:21:21,399
the first year, but I was, you know, you know, a

966
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:26,399
greater part of my heart was kind
of in a sense given over to her

967
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:30,359
in that way. I think that
this is the problem with Westerners is that

968
01:21:30,399 --> 01:21:34,960
they're so very divorced from the understanding
of their heart and understanding it as a

969
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:41,640
reality, not as a concept,
that they failed to realize that as you

970
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:46,760
deepen your relationship with Christ, you
give more of yourself to him. You

971
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:50,520
love him more, you trust him
more, you have you know, a

972
01:21:51,840 --> 01:22:00,000
greater intimacy with Him that comes about
through you know, not just devotion or

973
01:22:00,119 --> 01:22:03,039
acts or works or whatever else,
but through like you know, hesechasm,

974
01:22:03,119 --> 01:22:08,000
through prayer, through the sacraments,
through participation in the liturgy. All of

975
01:22:08,039 --> 01:22:13,680
these things grow your intimacy. And
I think the other thing that the fathers

976
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:16,920
talk about is, you know,
the purification of the news and the clarity

977
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:21,560
that that brings. And so it's
very normal for people to kind of in

978
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:28,159
a sense. During their catechism,
they see, they see or sense God's

979
01:22:28,239 --> 01:22:33,880
presence to a degree, and then
as they as they progress in the spiritual

980
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:41,000
life, they begin to see and
sense God's presence ever more deeply. And

981
01:22:41,079 --> 01:22:45,199
again, these are all very kind
of in a sense, they're unsatisfactory to

982
01:22:45,399 --> 01:22:51,479
a certain type of mindset because everything
becomes very reductionistic and mechanical. And the

983
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:56,720
reality is is that it's a relationship
and it's not. Even though that's like

984
01:22:56,800 --> 01:23:00,000
kind of a cheesy way to put
it or whatever that people think is cheesy,

985
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:04,039
the reality is that that is really
what it is. And as the

986
01:23:04,079 --> 01:23:10,079
news is purified by prayer, by
fasting, by obedience, by confession,

987
01:23:10,159 --> 01:23:14,960
by the sacraments, all these different
things, you begin to see God more

988
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:19,279
and you begin to you know,
you begin to experience Him in ever deeper

989
01:23:19,319 --> 01:23:26,479
ways. So and that's a very
real, tangible reality. But it's hard

990
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:30,560
to put into words or explain to
people who've never experienced. It's it's like

991
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:35,840
the sensation of not being a Christian
and you say, I felt so empty,

992
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:39,399
and it's like, well, what
does that mean. It's like,

993
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:43,439
well, I didn't even know I
was empty until I had the grace of

994
01:23:43,479 --> 01:23:47,680
the Holy Spirit. Until I knew
God, then I knew my emptiness.

995
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:54,600
But previously I just I had the
sense that there was something missing from my

996
01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:58,640
life. But how do you describe
emptiness when it's all you've ever experienced,

997
01:23:59,079 --> 01:24:02,199
when it's really all that you've ever
known. So anyways, those are some

998
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:13,479
thoughts. Sumerian Sufi? What's up? Parent, parish bishop, twenty five

999
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:15,239
dollars. This is the best channel
on YouTube. I love that you embrace

1000
01:24:15,279 --> 01:24:19,439
your comedic side more often. Thank
you for teaching and doing all this great

1001
01:24:19,439 --> 01:24:23,279
content. Yeah, thank you.
Been wanting to, you know, do

1002
01:24:23,319 --> 01:24:26,640
that for a long time, so
I'm glad that at least one person appreciates

1003
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:30,720
it. What's up, man,
Sufi? What's up? You have to

1004
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:36,920
unmute? Uh Sam, I'm I'm
ann sofie And I'm just a bit curious

1005
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:41,920
listening to your conversation. As soon
as you guys are like, you know

1006
01:24:42,039 --> 01:24:45,720
what, we would conseate the anti
Platonist and you know, anti the the

1007
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:48,800
ideal of gnosis and things like that. I know you guys fall under the

1008
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:54,840
Russian Orthodox Church, says a big
curious Why do you guys oppose Platonism and

1009
01:24:55,359 --> 01:25:00,199
this idea? Of like esotericism and
gnosis. All the reasons I gave in

1010
01:25:00,239 --> 01:25:03,000
the first hour. If you want
to scroll back and on the YouTube video,

1011
01:25:03,079 --> 01:25:08,359
you could watch all those points.
But I mean, there's pretty fundamental

1012
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:12,840
errors in Platonism. We don't have
a clear ethic and Platonism we don't have

1013
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:15,600
a way to know the ideal realm
how it relates to this realm of flux.

1014
01:25:16,479 --> 01:25:20,760
I mean, all the classic critiques
of Platonism will be applicable the monad.

1015
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:24,760
Why would the monad split? Why
do we have multiplicity at all?

1016
01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:29,439
If the monad is the perfection that
we're all trying to get back to the

1017
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:33,560
idea that salvation is quote gnosis itself
is kind of incoherent. So all of

1018
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:41,359
those are reasons why Platonism is incoherent
and insufficient. I have a question because

1019
01:25:41,399 --> 01:25:45,520
what we do is we kind of
mix like Clayton's ideals and philosophy. Yes,

1020
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:48,600
I'm aware to make philosophy right and
to put on how can you guys

1021
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:53,039
don't do something similar with the Bible. Do you just not see any comparison

1022
01:25:53,159 --> 01:25:57,039
between like the Church's teachings and Platonism, Like something that's not strong enough to

1023
01:25:57,159 --> 01:26:00,359
unify them because for us we just
kind of you know, bread it all

1024
01:26:00,399 --> 01:26:05,479
together matches like Platonic ideals and Platonic
ideas mentioned well, I mean, the

1025
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:11,520
God of the Quran is an unknowable
deity and it's a contradiction to the prior

1026
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:15,039
revelation. So if you watch the
debate that I did with Daniel Hikikachu,

1027
01:26:15,079 --> 01:26:19,359
who although he's not a Sufi,
the debate that I had with him,

1028
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:23,920
the problems of the theology would apply
to you as well, even if you

1029
01:26:24,079 --> 01:26:30,039
are a neo Platonic interpreter of the
Quran. Well, that that's an argument

1030
01:26:30,119 --> 01:26:32,119
for another day. I'm just curious
on here hecu has a viewpoints, especially

1031
01:26:32,159 --> 01:26:36,000
because I've been seeing more Christians recently
get into the ideals of like, you

1032
01:26:36,079 --> 01:26:40,720
know, Platonic derie. But as
he's mostly the Orthodox or but he like

1033
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:44,560
anti Platonists. So that's why I
was just curious. I appreciate the answers.

1034
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:48,359
Yeah, thank you. Yeah,
go check out that discussion with Daniel

1035
01:26:48,399 --> 01:26:51,880
Hook getch you to get an idea
for where I'm talking, where I'm coming

1036
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:57,199
from. Mom, what's up e, mom? E? Mom? Something

1037
01:26:57,359 --> 01:27:06,319
I can't read the rest of it. George Washington barfer five dollars a very

1038
01:27:06,359 --> 01:27:14,720
close Boomer family member holds David egbews
is argumentation and effective means of dislodging him

1039
01:27:14,760 --> 01:27:17,720
from this view. That really just
depends on your relationship to this family member.

1040
01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:20,600
I mean, if it's if you're
a younger person and they're older.

1041
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:26,159
Since you said Boomer, probably not. You're probably not going to argue or

1042
01:27:26,239 --> 01:27:30,359
intellectually convince someone older than you and
the family of anything. So in that

1043
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:35,960
case, you're better off just trying
to live a model, virtuous life than

1044
01:27:36,039 --> 01:27:41,199
trying to debate or anything like that. We always tell people not to debate

1045
01:27:41,279 --> 01:27:45,239
their parents or their family members is
just a waste of time. But I

1046
01:27:45,279 --> 01:27:47,600
mean, if they ask you a
question, you can answer them. But

1047
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:56,720
that would be my advice. What's
up you, mom? I do what?

1048
01:27:57,039 --> 01:28:01,680
I you good? What's up?
I've just come? What are we

1049
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:05,520
talking about today? I've just come
across the bitch based up? What are

1050
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:11,720
we speaking about? The topics listed
at the top, simulation theory, David

1051
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:19,600
Ike, gnosticism, platonism, neoplatonism, nice. What have we got to

1052
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:24,439
say about any of these? Well, I'm arguing against pretty much all those,

1053
01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:30,640
so I'm I'm refuting and critiquing and
going against those positions. What's your

1054
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:38,640
position? I don't know. What's
tim theory? I know who David Ike

1055
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:44,239
is simulation theory that we live in
a simulation. Oh, oh, simulation

1056
01:28:44,399 --> 01:28:50,640
theory? And what about gnosticism?
What is nasticism the idea that we attain

1057
01:28:51,239 --> 01:28:57,119
salvation through a secret knowledge or nosis
and that the world is inherently evil in

1058
01:28:57,199 --> 01:29:02,000
a prison? A bit vague?
Vague? I need to look into that

1059
01:29:02,039 --> 01:29:06,880
a bit more to that's why.
Yeah, that's right, you can check

1060
01:29:06,920 --> 01:29:12,199
those things out. Yeah, we
don't believe those things. Sense certain.

1061
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:30,640
You have to unmute. Yeah,
you have to ummute. You don't have

1062
01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:35,079
to raise your hand. You're you're
on there. Unmute. Oh hello,

1063
01:29:35,199 --> 01:29:38,640
is it my trying to speak?
Yes? What's that? What's on your

1064
01:29:38,720 --> 01:29:45,159
mind? Okay? Yeah? I
was just wondering. Is nosis always sort

1065
01:29:45,199 --> 01:29:48,840
of Apollonian knowledge, you know,
sort of reason based knowledge or no?

1066
01:29:50,039 --> 01:29:56,720
Or is it always like knowledge of
one's emotions and control of one's emotions?

1067
01:29:57,359 --> 01:30:01,079
So for example, you know,
with the the creation, the creation myth

1068
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:09,319
of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden
fruit, which gave them knowledge, but

1069
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:15,279
actually that resulted in the emotion of
shame from the knowledge that they were naked.

1070
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:24,079
So it seems to me that you
know, in our current sort of

1071
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:34,239
you know, in modernity, where
we have elevated reason above our connection with

1072
01:30:34,399 --> 01:30:42,359
our emotions, or denying the reality
of our emotions, and there's this sense

1073
01:30:42,439 --> 01:30:45,239
that actually we should get you know, more more familiar with the fact that

1074
01:30:45,359 --> 01:30:54,840
our emotions are intertwined with our capacity
to reason as well. Could that actually

1075
01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:59,039
lead to more notice it, you
know, to more mysticism if we were

1076
01:30:59,119 --> 01:31:02,760
to connect the two together rather than
what He's perceived to be, you know,

1077
01:31:03,119 --> 01:31:11,520
more and more surgrounded state. Interesting
interesting question. I mean, I

1078
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:18,159
think that not all the Gnostics were
the same, as we mentioned that.

1079
01:31:18,359 --> 01:31:21,880
If you want to scroll back to
the beginning, we talked about various Gnostic

1080
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:29,239
sects, some of which thought that
you could attain enlightenment through total nihilistic abandon

1081
01:31:30,279 --> 01:31:33,079
some of which thought you could attain
it through rituals, some of which thought

1082
01:31:33,199 --> 01:31:36,560
you could attain it through asceticism.
So they were kind of all over the

1083
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:42,399
place. But I think the emotions
are an aspect of our being, but

1084
01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:51,119
that they don't necessarily give us in
themselves gnosis or Enlightenment Rome Martin. I'll

1085
01:31:51,159 --> 01:31:54,279
do a few more, but I'm
getting kind of worn down, so we

1086
01:31:54,359 --> 01:32:03,239
might have to call it a night. What's a Rome? You have to

1087
01:32:03,359 --> 01:32:16,239
un mute? Are you there?
I'm mute? Okay. I think you

1088
01:32:16,279 --> 01:32:25,199
have to turn your mic on or
something so we can't hear you. You

1089
01:32:25,279 --> 01:32:28,600
can come back and come back in, come out, come back in.

1090
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:40,920
Know what m what's up? As
you can hear me what's up? Hey?

1091
01:32:41,039 --> 01:32:44,279
Then you having me on. I
do have a question that's a little

1092
01:32:44,319 --> 01:32:47,479
off topic, but I can I
can draw it into Platonism, so I

1093
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:53,560
hope you'll entertain it. I come
from a I'm coming into Orthodoxy this Saturday,

1094
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:59,039
and I come from a kind of
a Christian universalist background. And one

1095
01:32:59,079 --> 01:33:01,720
of the things that I've noticed as
I've spent a lot of time listening to

1096
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:06,840
you, just doing reading and examining
my assumptions and have moved away and let

1097
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:11,199
go of that universalism to a great
degree. So I've noticed that I had

1098
01:33:11,239 --> 01:33:16,000
a lot of presuppositions that the Greeks
had that unity is preferable to multiplicity,

1099
01:33:16,239 --> 01:33:21,039
that because everything came from one,
everything should return to one. And I

1100
01:33:21,119 --> 01:33:26,159
think that that idea kind of manifests
itself in the Orthodox realm and in other

1101
01:33:26,279 --> 01:33:30,720
Christian realms as this Christian universalism.
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's that's

1102
01:33:31,079 --> 01:33:35,479
originism. Yeah. Right, now, you guys were talking a couple hours

1103
01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:40,880
ago, maybe now somebody had brought
up that how the Orthodox conception of hell

1104
01:33:42,239 --> 01:33:45,239
does kind of solve that to a
satiates that to a great degree, that

1105
01:33:45,319 --> 01:33:50,600
Platonic moved back to the One because
in a certain sense everything does go back

1106
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:55,279
to God and that the Divine presence
has made manifest. Yeah, but it

1107
01:33:55,319 --> 01:33:59,600
doesn't It doesn't mean in the sense
of the Neoplatonists that it's being reabsorbed into

1108
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:03,760
some in their unity things returned to
God in the sense of being returned to

1109
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:09,199
their natural state, which the fault
knocked out of whack. So we're not

1110
01:34:09,279 --> 01:34:14,119
being reabsorbed into the One. We
are being returned to our natural state,

1111
01:34:14,279 --> 01:34:19,800
which was to be created to be
beings distinct but also in communion with God,

1112
01:34:20,920 --> 01:34:24,000
right, my only. And I'm
pretty much at peace with that.

1113
01:34:24,079 --> 01:34:26,720
But the only thing that does still
kind of nag at me a little bit

1114
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:32,239
is when I look at the Orthodox
that that that Orthodox vision of the escaton

1115
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:39,279
and Saint Maximus described that some are
resurrected to ever well being and ever ill

1116
01:34:39,359 --> 01:34:43,439
being. Right, doesn't the fact
that some if it does turn out that

1117
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:46,199
that is the case, that some
are resurrected to ever ill being, doesn't

1118
01:34:46,239 --> 01:34:51,079
that kind of leave you with the
sense that there's some loose ends. What

1119
01:34:51,159 --> 01:35:00,039
do you mean, well, that
somebody is suffering eternally? I mean I

1120
01:35:00,159 --> 01:35:03,560
think we well, we're not told
like I mean, we're just told that.

1121
01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:10,479
That's how God set it up to
where you can basically create the afterlife

1122
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:17,479
that you that you want, which
is either either eternal felicity and resurrection or

1123
01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:21,680
you're you make yourself an enemy of
God, and then it's the presence of

1124
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:29,119
God that torments you. So if
by loose ends you mean, well,

1125
01:35:29,159 --> 01:35:32,479
why hasn't God fixed those people?
I mean God has fixed them by restoring

1126
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:38,399
their nature, But God gave them
free will by which they lock themselves into

1127
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:44,479
not recapitulating the virtues in that nature
and thus ensuring a bad experience of the

1128
01:35:44,600 --> 01:35:48,840
escoton. But the bad experience is
not God like tormenting you like a you

1129
01:35:48,920 --> 01:35:53,359
know, Jeffrey Dahmer or something.
It's God's love is what torments them,

1130
01:35:54,279 --> 01:35:58,760
right, Okay, if I can
figub one kind of off topic question onto

1131
01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:03,000
that I've heard you say before that
what makes a saint in the Orthodox tradition

1132
01:36:03,159 --> 01:36:08,159
is not necessarily one hundred percent correct
theology. And I think you said this

1133
01:36:08,239 --> 01:36:10,920
in regards to Santa Augustine, but
that probably applies to all the bothers,

1134
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:15,680
because everybody's vallible to one degree or
another, even the same. Why do

1135
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:19,199
we extend that grace to some such
as Augustine and not to others like Origin.

1136
01:36:20,239 --> 01:36:25,840
Well, Augustine died in the bosom
of the Church and accepted the judgment

1137
01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:28,640
of the Church. On the books
that he wrote, if you read on

1138
01:36:28,760 --> 01:36:31,239
the Trinity, he even says,
I submit this to the judgment of the

1139
01:36:31,319 --> 01:36:35,000
universal Church. And so he died
in the bosom of the church. Origin

1140
01:36:35,119 --> 01:36:41,199
did not. Origin was excommunicated and
was called out as a heretic in his

1141
01:36:41,359 --> 01:36:44,359
day. Well, it seems to
me, because I've spent a lot of

1142
01:36:44,399 --> 01:36:48,520
time studying Origin, and it seems
to me that he it takes great pains

1143
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:53,840
to point out that a lot of
his speculations are just that. And while

1144
01:36:53,920 --> 01:36:58,159
he was communicated by Demetrius, it
seems that he was received by the bishops

1145
01:36:58,159 --> 01:37:01,439
in Arabia. Yeah, that's why
it ends up going to an ecumenical council

1146
01:37:01,560 --> 01:37:08,920
to decide, and that there's three
successive councils that definitively condemn all of the

1147
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:14,119
positions and Origin. And you also
can't like emasculate yourself. I mean,

1148
01:37:14,119 --> 01:37:19,159
he didn't emasculate himself. That's what
some people say, some others just because

1149
01:37:19,159 --> 01:37:23,399
of Okay, well so I mean
if okay, I know, so we

1150
01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:26,239
get the people who want to rewrite
revise everything. I'm not accusing you of

1151
01:37:26,399 --> 01:37:29,920
that, but like, why can't
we just rest the judge in the judgment

1152
01:37:29,960 --> 01:37:33,199
of three ecumenical councils on this person. I mean that the sixth Ecumenical Council

1153
01:37:33,319 --> 01:37:40,279
doesn't just say Origin is a heretic. There's actually a four page extensive refutation

1154
01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:44,439
and rejection of his entire system in
the Confession of Saint Sophronius, which is

1155
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:47,119
accepted at the sixth Council. Like, why isn't that good enough for us

1156
01:37:47,159 --> 01:37:53,239
to just trust that the judgment of
the church knows better than us to try

1157
01:37:53,279 --> 01:37:57,279
to go and pick out where Well, I think, no, Origin wasn't

1158
01:37:57,279 --> 01:38:00,000
that bad of a guy. I
mean well, I heard that question raised

1159
01:38:00,239 --> 01:38:04,119
that or the point raised that a
lot of those things that were condemned were

1160
01:38:04,199 --> 01:38:09,560
actually evagarious is thinking and not origins. But it's not. But you have

1161
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:13,439
a bigger problem here is that if
you if you set your sorry, Jay,

1162
01:38:13,439 --> 01:38:15,279
I don't mean no, I'm going
to say that very point. It's

1163
01:38:15,279 --> 01:38:18,319
a bigger problem. Yeah, if
you set yourself in judgment of the ecumenical

1164
01:38:18,439 --> 01:38:21,880
councils, and it's like what it
first, like, what is your actual

1165
01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:26,600
authority? And to be honest,
it's like at that point, why would

1166
01:38:26,640 --> 01:38:32,000
somebody even become Orthodox if they didn't
understand that the councils were divinely inspired and

1167
01:38:32,119 --> 01:38:39,199
that their pronouncements were actually by miraculously
the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And

1168
01:38:39,319 --> 01:38:43,439
so it's not just as Jay said, one council, it's three councils.

1169
01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:45,800
And to me, this is like, this is this is the problem.

1170
01:38:46,079 --> 01:38:50,560
People are becoming Orthodox, but they're
they're still Protestant. The idea that like

1171
01:38:50,800 --> 01:38:54,520
I can choose and pick and I
go, well, I like his writing

1172
01:38:54,600 --> 01:38:57,760
and whatever else, and I think
that he's a good guy and he probably

1173
01:38:57,800 --> 01:39:01,319
didn't emasculate that none of that has
anything to do with anything. Our opinions

1174
01:39:01,359 --> 01:39:05,760
on things do not matter. In
Orthodoxy, we trust the grace and the

1175
01:39:06,039 --> 01:39:11,560
and and the revelation of the Holy
Spirit. It's you know, it's not

1176
01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:15,000
our own wisdom that leads us to
come to the conclusions that we come to.

1177
01:39:15,680 --> 01:39:20,239
Likewise, when when we talk about
who's the saying and you were talking

1178
01:39:20,279 --> 01:39:25,239
about Augustine, Well, the the
understanding and Orthodoxy of a saying is not

1179
01:39:25,479 --> 01:39:29,520
just miracles or this or that.
There's there's not a formula like in Roman

1180
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:34,039
Catholicism. It's those who acquire the
grace of the Holy Spirit. And it's

1181
01:39:34,199 --> 01:39:40,039
very clear, I think, even
from the story of origin and the fact

1182
01:39:40,079 --> 01:39:43,600
that you know, he didn't die
in the church, and he didn't die

1183
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:47,920
in repentance, and did not even
seem to have any shred of humility about

1184
01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:51,920
his teaching or what is often the
case with all heretics in the church,

1185
01:39:53,479 --> 01:40:00,760
no shred of humility regarding being corrected. I don't know we would have such

1186
01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:04,199
a hard time seeing that as a
sign that this person obviously did not have

1187
01:40:04,359 --> 01:40:09,039
the grace of the Holy Spirit,
one of the foremost attributes of the Holy

1188
01:40:09,159 --> 01:40:14,600
Spirit moving and working in a person
and This is directly from Saint Sophroni of

1189
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:17,119
ethics, but there's lots of other
ones. Is that they are obedient to

1190
01:40:17,239 --> 01:40:23,640
the Church, that they understand they
can they can neetically see the grace of

1191
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:30,279
the Holy Spirit acting and moving in
the church, and that they are bound

1192
01:40:30,399 --> 01:40:33,960
to that because they sense that grace
at present. So in regards to that

1193
01:40:34,199 --> 01:40:36,920
point, the one thing that I
guess still kind of confuses me, that

1194
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:42,680
theysny prestle with to the question of
origins character is that how did a heretic

1195
01:40:42,880 --> 01:40:46,319
have such a pronounced effect on so
many saints of our church, that that

1196
01:40:46,479 --> 01:40:49,720
so many people spoke so much the
same the same way, that the same

1197
01:40:49,800 --> 01:40:54,560
way that Aristotle had an influence on
the Church fathers, the same way that

1198
01:40:56,039 --> 01:41:00,239
any number of ancient classical writers had
influence. And yet that doesn't make them

1199
01:41:00,920 --> 01:41:08,279
saints or necessarily even orthodox, right
Tertullian similar situation. So, but you

1200
01:41:08,399 --> 01:41:14,199
understand that it's if Saint Sophronius at
the Sixth Council in his four page reputation

1201
01:41:14,279 --> 01:41:17,720
of originism is wrong. What it's
not just a matter of this, you

1202
01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:23,800
know academic you know peculiarity. What
that does is it says well, then

1203
01:41:23,800 --> 01:41:28,680
you know what Athanasius was also wrong
about about Arias. You know Cyril was

1204
01:41:28,720 --> 01:41:33,680
also wrong about Cyril was also wrong
perhaps about what he was saying about Nestorius.

1205
01:41:33,760 --> 01:41:38,319
You understand every heretic makes this argument. If you go talk to the

1206
01:41:38,399 --> 01:41:42,079
Assyrian Church of the East, they
they will tell you exactly what you said.

1207
01:41:42,399 --> 01:41:45,800
Nobody actually understood what Nasaurius was saying. Cyril got it all wrong.

1208
01:41:47,039 --> 01:41:50,399
So now the whole thing's undone,
you see. So it's not just a

1209
01:41:50,520 --> 01:41:57,159
matter of well they were actually refuting
Evagrius and not an origin No, I

1210
01:41:57,279 --> 01:42:02,239
think again, I'm going to trust
that Saint Sophronius correctly was refuting origin system,

1211
01:42:04,359 --> 01:42:08,359
right. Okay, well it satisfies
me. Like I said, this

1212
01:42:08,439 --> 01:42:11,600
Saturday, I'm being baptized along with
my wife and our son and my brother,

1213
01:42:11,680 --> 01:42:13,439
and a lot of that has been
because of listening to you for the

1214
01:42:13,479 --> 01:42:16,439
past few years. So thanks for
everything. Have you have you looked at

1215
01:42:16,439 --> 01:42:19,319
what I'm talking about? I've shared
it many times on Twitter. I'll try

1216
01:42:19,319 --> 01:42:23,640
to reshare it. Have you seen
the four page condemnation of all of Originism

1217
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:28,399
from the Six Council? I have
ever read it? Okay, yeah,

1218
01:42:28,840 --> 01:42:34,840
and I think, yeah, good
questions. Appreciate that. Yeah, I

1219
01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:38,960
think, you know, it's understandable
too. I wasn't trying to, you

1220
01:42:39,039 --> 01:42:44,399
know, be combative. I remember
having you know, issues, I didn't

1221
01:42:44,439 --> 01:42:45,479
think, I like, what's the
answer to this? You know, and

1222
01:42:45,640 --> 01:42:49,119
those things will come in time.
So, you know, not everyone or

1223
01:42:49,159 --> 01:42:53,680
theological questions is going to be immediately
answered when we want it. One thing

1224
01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:58,079
that happens is that, you know, you may have something in the back

1225
01:42:58,119 --> 01:43:00,680
of your head kind of you know, tom around for three or four years

1226
01:43:01,199 --> 01:43:04,279
before you find you know, the
text or the book or whatever that answers

1227
01:43:04,279 --> 01:43:09,600
that quick. That's been my experience. I don't always immediately get whatever issue

1228
01:43:09,600 --> 01:43:13,640
I'm struggling with, you know,
answered. I remember at one point I

1229
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:16,479
had something wrong theologically, maybe five
or six years ago, where I wasn't

1230
01:43:16,520 --> 01:43:20,760
sure how to reconcile. You know, did Christ assume a falling human nature

1231
01:43:21,439 --> 01:43:26,159
or an unfalling human nature? And
it seemed like it had to be a

1232
01:43:26,199 --> 01:43:29,279
fall in human nature, because well, how would we be healed if he

1233
01:43:29,319 --> 01:43:31,920
didn't, you know, assume a
falling human nature. I had not read

1234
01:43:32,199 --> 01:43:39,239
where Saint Maximus covers the blameless and
the Blameful passions, and so I wasn't

1235
01:43:39,279 --> 01:43:43,000
aware of that distinction, and that
distinction answered my question. And I didn't

1236
01:43:43,279 --> 01:43:46,960
you know which was boppling or was
in my head until I saw that text

1237
01:43:47,000 --> 01:44:06,880
from Saint Maximus. Chris pro what's
up? You got an immune? Chris,

1238
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:12,520
you got to arn you if you
want to talk? Are you there?

1239
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:23,600
I don't understand why people sit here
and wait. All right, let's

1240
01:44:23,720 --> 01:44:28,000
move on. So we got a
lot of people who've already asked questions.

1241
01:44:28,039 --> 01:44:30,479
And I'm not trying to be rude
to you guys, but we're moving on

1242
01:44:30,600 --> 01:44:46,079
to people who two, Hu,
what's up to Hu? So it's taken

1243
01:44:46,119 --> 01:44:50,880
him a second to connect Blake for
ten dollars, would you say that the

1244
01:44:50,920 --> 01:44:58,439
scriptures in the church are on the
same ontological level in orthodox theology? I

1245
01:44:58,520 --> 01:45:03,880
mean, they're distinct things, but
they are both, you know, aspects

1246
01:45:03,920 --> 01:45:15,960
of the faith. So I mean
it seems to me that the church and

1247
01:45:15,039 --> 01:45:21,319
the scriptures would reflect proper Trinitarian theology
analogously. I mean, Maximus says that

1248
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:27,119
the content of the Bible is the
logi, the content of nature is the

1249
01:45:27,199 --> 01:45:30,319
logi, and probably you could say
the Church is the body of Christ.

1250
01:45:30,399 --> 01:45:34,279
So it also is in a sense
related to the LOGI. I mean,

1251
01:45:34,319 --> 01:45:39,079
I guess they're just different things.
I mean, you know, the scriptures

1252
01:45:39,119 --> 01:45:45,560
are the medium of divine revelation in
one sense, but so is nature in

1253
01:45:45,640 --> 01:45:48,439
another sense. So it's just I
don't know if I would say that scripture

1254
01:45:48,479 --> 01:45:53,680
in the church are ontologically on the
same level. Land and Jordan fifty dollars.

1255
01:45:53,720 --> 01:45:56,520
I mean, the scriptures are a
book, you know what I mean,

1256
01:45:57,319 --> 01:46:00,439
and we're the actual body of Christ. The book is about Christ.

1257
01:46:00,640 --> 01:46:08,239
So Land and Jordan fifty dollars,
you were doing too much. Boy,

1258
01:46:09,239 --> 01:46:13,960
It's just this is alcohol. It
is alcohol. Yeah, that was a

1259
01:46:13,960 --> 01:46:16,079
fun eclip. Maybe laugh really hard. Mango three dollars, Thank you for

1260
01:46:16,199 --> 01:46:20,199
that, fat super Chet. They're
landing. He wins the super chet contest

1261
01:46:20,239 --> 01:46:27,920
tonight. Mango three dollars. Is
our sin an obstacle and not the barrier

1262
01:46:28,079 --> 01:46:32,600
between us and God. I mean, obstacle and barrier can be. I

1263
01:46:32,680 --> 01:46:39,039
mean they kind of have the same
meaning, so both of them are equivalent.

1264
01:46:39,560 --> 01:46:44,159
Philip, Philip Plan ten dollars,
Thank you so much. Jacob one

1265
01:46:44,239 --> 01:46:47,600
dollar. Do you still read doctor
Joseph P. Farrell, No, I

1266
01:46:47,680 --> 01:46:50,800
haven't read any of this stuff.
In many years. I think, you

1267
01:46:50,880 --> 01:46:55,319
know, the last time I read
through God History Dialectic, maybe eight years

1268
01:46:55,319 --> 01:46:58,439
ago, was the last time I
looked at this stuff. Chicken of the

1269
01:46:58,479 --> 01:47:04,359
CEA five dollars. Our hypostatic properties
depicted in icons? Are they called accidents?

1270
01:47:04,439 --> 01:47:10,199
No. Hypotetic property is picking out
the property of the son, picking

1271
01:47:10,239 --> 01:47:14,840
out the person of the son.
That's the son's hyposthetic properties to be generated,

1272
01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:23,560
right, the Holy Spirit's hypoesetic properties
to be spirated. But what's depicted

1273
01:47:23,640 --> 01:47:28,760
in icons is the hypostasis, the
hypostasis of the Sun, and particularly we

1274
01:47:28,840 --> 01:47:31,159
don't depict the hypostasis of the Father
or the Holy Spirit in the icon.

1275
01:47:32,119 --> 01:47:36,600
But we wouldn't call those accidents.
No, So that's not that's not what

1276
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:42,560
we believe. Tag who five dollars. Prior to the incarnation, could nobody

1277
01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:47,880
justify knowledge, ethics and metaphysics.
I mean, well, the idea of

1278
01:47:48,079 --> 01:47:54,800
justification in philosophy was there because Plato
is prior to the incarnation. But it's

1279
01:47:54,840 --> 01:48:01,000
not like the incarnation has to happen
before truth or grace could come. I

1280
01:48:01,039 --> 01:48:05,640
mean, we believe that truth and
grace come to us from the incarnation,

1281
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:11,520
even though it happened at a point
in time, it operates reflectively. That's

1282
01:48:11,520 --> 01:48:15,439
why the grace is the gospel has
preached to the patriarch's Paul says, so,

1283
01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:18,720
no, even though it happens at
a point in time, the grace

1284
01:48:18,800 --> 01:48:26,039
applies even to the past and to
the future. Since God didn't did judge

1285
01:48:26,119 --> 01:48:34,399
humanity, wouldn't conscience and intuition constitute
a basis for philosophy. I don't know

1286
01:48:34,439 --> 01:48:39,640
what that means. God did judge
humanity, wouldn't conscience be a basis.

1287
01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:44,680
I don't think our conscience has to
philosophy just means asking questions about you know,

1288
01:48:44,840 --> 01:48:47,880
what is the meaning of life?
What is the examined life? Right?

1289
01:48:48,079 --> 01:48:51,039
Is it the examined life? The
only life worth living? I mean,

1290
01:48:51,680 --> 01:48:56,800
you know, the pre Socratics asked
basic questions like what is everything?

1291
01:48:57,000 --> 01:49:00,359
You know? Is everything one thing? Or many things? So I don't

1292
01:49:00,399 --> 01:49:05,039
know that it necessarily immediately relates to
the conscience. So I'm not sure what

1293
01:49:05,119 --> 01:49:08,600
that question means. Not trying to
be rude to you, just I'm not

1294
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:11,760
sure, not sure what it means. Ricky five three dollars. I had

1295
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:15,239
a Roman Catholic tell me that we
eat the divine essence in the economy and

1296
01:49:15,279 --> 01:49:17,800
the Eucharist. No, I've never
heard anyone say that, So I think

1297
01:49:17,880 --> 01:49:24,079
your friend is confused. I mean
not even Roman Catholics believe that, So

1298
01:49:24,199 --> 01:49:27,000
he doesn't know what he's talking about. DC would work at three dollars.

1299
01:49:27,760 --> 01:49:30,399
Welcome to the will Nium. Yeah, exactly. We was down there in

1300
01:49:30,439 --> 01:49:32,920
Miami and it is not the way
that Will Smith describes in his videos.

1301
01:49:33,800 --> 01:49:40,680
So but I guess we're in the
Willnium now, mister Anderson, five five

1302
01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:45,159
dollars. Have you done any geopolitics
espionage debate streams? There was one open

1303
01:49:45,239 --> 01:49:51,479
debaate stream on that about whether or
not communism was part of the dialectic or

1304
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:57,640
not, and that's when some of
those lunatic Maga communists people came on there,

1305
01:49:58,920 --> 01:50:01,359
and that's on Rock Finn. Are
there not enough people willing to debate

1306
01:50:01,439 --> 01:50:04,680
this topic. No, most people
won't. I mean all anybody wants to

1307
01:50:04,760 --> 01:50:09,840
debate is the Amish question, which
I mean I've known about all this stuff

1308
01:50:09,880 --> 01:50:16,760
since like two thousand and six.
So there was one guy who was pretty

1309
01:50:16,760 --> 01:50:25,640
well read and we got pretty deep
into debating to what degree the British Empire

1310
01:50:28,520 --> 01:50:34,840
fostered and goaded tiny mustache man and
that was a pretty That guy was pretty

1311
01:50:34,840 --> 01:50:42,039
smart guy. That's on Rock Fin
if you're looking for that debate some months

1312
01:50:42,079 --> 01:50:44,680
back. I don't remember what it
was called, but no, typically nobody

1313
01:50:45,119 --> 01:50:49,359
when I do the espionage streams,
they get like seven thousand views, right,

1314
01:50:49,760 --> 01:50:55,039
I did a whole four. I
did four Masade movies and tried to

1315
01:50:55,119 --> 01:51:00,880
tie that into two espionage talk stuff. Seven thousand people watch that. Nobody

1316
01:51:00,960 --> 01:51:04,119
cares about that. Twenty thirty thousand
people will listen to a stream talking about

1317
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:10,239
Candae Owens and Catholicism. I caught
them at five dollars. It was funny

1318
01:51:10,279 --> 01:51:14,399
how the audience at that Fresh and
Fit event and the panel was against the

1319
01:51:14,520 --> 01:51:19,960
mouth breaver breava mouth breather, and
everybody was on Andrew and Jimbob's side.

1320
01:51:24,119 --> 01:51:28,119
Yeah, I was there live.
It did seem like most of the audience

1321
01:51:28,239 --> 01:51:32,560
was kind of laughing at Jim Bob
and Andrews comments. They weren't really vibing

1322
01:51:32,760 --> 01:51:44,479
with Wes Watson. It was just
kind of everybody was just kind of not

1323
01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:48,560
sure how to react. I mean
it just because it was odd from the

1324
01:51:48,680 --> 01:51:53,720
get go. I mean, Wes
was like from zero to one hundred within

1325
01:51:53,960 --> 01:51:57,359
three minutes. So it was just
kind of everybody was not sure how to

1326
01:51:57,439 --> 01:51:59,640
react. It was just I don't
know how to describe it as it was

1327
01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:05,760
an odd vibe glue Sea Tunes three
dollars. I will say it was entertaining.

1328
01:52:08,079 --> 01:52:11,720
That was definitely an entertaining event.
When challenged by family members, I

1329
01:52:11,760 --> 01:52:14,920
don't want a debate for fear of
harming my relationships. So yeah, they

1330
01:52:14,920 --> 01:52:16,000
don't have to debate your family members, man, I don't. I don't

1331
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:19,239
know why people think that. You
know, they watch these streams and they

1332
01:52:19,279 --> 01:52:24,119
think, oh, I got to
go debate my dad. No, I'll

1333
01:52:24,239 --> 01:52:27,560
tell you all the time, they'll
do that. What's the best course of

1334
01:52:27,640 --> 01:52:30,920
action? Again, don't debate your
family members. Your family members spend all

1335
01:52:30,960 --> 01:52:34,479
their time around you. They know
every one of your faults. You guys

1336
01:52:34,560 --> 01:52:39,840
annoy each other. They don't want
to listen to your debate. They don't

1337
01:52:39,880 --> 01:52:44,800
care. They're not even hearing.
It just sounds like noise. So the

1338
01:52:44,960 --> 01:52:47,399
only way to convert or get through
to family members, in my experience,

1339
01:52:47,880 --> 01:52:53,960
especially if they're older, is through
actions and how you live. And then

1340
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:58,720
of course you can pray for BMX
nineteen sixty six ten bucks. Thank you

1341
01:52:58,800 --> 01:53:01,720
so much, BMX. Remember also, we have a show sponsor. I

1342
01:53:01,880 --> 01:53:08,800
noticed that at the Mind's event,
Chalk was on the display, so I

1343
01:53:08,840 --> 01:53:12,239
guess Chalk did end up being a
sponsor at the Mines event. I was

1344
01:53:12,600 --> 01:53:16,399
hoping to be invited to the Minds
event given that I helped those people talk

1345
01:53:16,520 --> 01:53:20,479
to our buddies at Chalk. But
so maybe next year I'll get invited to

1346
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:27,359
the Minds event since I helped set
that up. But we'll see. We

1347
01:53:27,479 --> 01:53:30,079
had a lot of our friends were
at that event. And then again,

1348
01:53:30,479 --> 01:53:34,119
I don't think Destiny was a big
fan, so maybe Destiny was not too

1349
01:53:34,239 --> 01:53:36,720
hip to the idea of somebody like
me coming. I don't know. That's

1350
01:53:36,760 --> 01:53:40,800
okay. I don't really care that
much about it. But it would have

1351
01:53:40,840 --> 01:53:44,479
been neat to go to and I
could have gone on with Luke and Lord

1352
01:53:44,520 --> 01:53:47,960
Baltimore. But whatever, we had
good time. We had a great time

1353
01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:55,039
in Miami with Luke on his podcast, and the event was definitely an adventure.

1354
01:53:56,239 --> 01:54:00,600
It was entertaining, the Fresh and
Fit event, and if we didn't

1355
01:54:00,640 --> 01:54:06,279
have the Muslim debate, that's okay, all right, Thank you guys on

1356
01:54:06,520 --> 01:54:11,279
Twitter. Appreciate everybody coming, guys, remember head on over to chalk dot

1357
01:54:11,359 --> 01:54:15,359
com. Chalk is our sponsor.
They were also there at the mindsevent You

1358
01:54:15,399 --> 01:54:18,079
can get fifty percent off of those
products over at chalk dot com. My

1359
01:54:18,239 --> 01:54:21,600
favorite is, of course the ton
cattlee right there, the Talcat one hundred

1360
01:54:21,800 --> 01:54:25,600
proven to boost tests saucer rone in
the studies you can read over at chalk

1361
01:54:25,640 --> 01:54:30,840
dot com. A'shoq dot com.
We also have the pre workout chad Mode

1362
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:34,399
which you can get as well for
fifty percent off if you use a promo

1363
01:54:34,479 --> 01:54:40,079
code J fifty this JY five zero
on all those great Chalk products. Chalk

1364
01:54:40,199 --> 01:54:44,720
is linked in the show description c
choq dot com. Thank you to the

1365
01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:48,199
mods for putting the links to Chalk
in the chat there. For everybody for

1366
01:54:48,319 --> 01:54:51,479
watching this later, click in the
show description to that link. Also,

1367
01:54:51,560 --> 01:54:56,560
guys, remember we will be live
in Las Vegas with our good buddy Jamie

1368
01:54:56,640 --> 01:55:01,600
Kennedy. You know him as Randy
Meeks and biggest horror franchise of all time

1369
01:55:01,720 --> 01:55:09,640
called Scream. You might have heard
a Scream and his stand up is very

1370
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:14,520
enjoyable. He's a very funny guy, very fun in person. He's been

1371
01:55:14,640 --> 01:55:19,279
very cool to us and always been
very open to doing a lot of these

1372
01:55:19,319 --> 01:55:23,000
events with us. We've had a
lot of fun with him, and we've

1373
01:55:23,039 --> 01:55:27,880
also got our good buddy who's in
that same region, Isaac bishops I Llunati

1374
01:55:27,920 --> 01:55:30,079
Watcher. You've seen him on my
podcast many times. You've seen me and

1375
01:55:30,199 --> 01:55:34,840
him on Sam Tripley's podcast. You've
seen you know, he's got one of

1376
01:55:34,920 --> 01:55:42,159
the top you know, Hollywood esoteric
pop culture conspiracy podcasts out there. So

1377
01:55:42,600 --> 01:55:45,920
he's going to be live with us
June twenty second in Las Vegas. We

1378
01:55:45,039 --> 01:55:50,520
found a great venue. It was
the only venue, so amazingly it worked

1379
01:55:50,520 --> 01:55:53,960
out. I didn't think it was
going to work out. Did not think

1380
01:55:54,000 --> 01:55:56,720
I was going to be able to
get a venue. Thankfully, we got

1381
01:55:56,840 --> 01:56:00,680
this great venue. Get your tickets
right there. It's six hours of fun,

1382
01:56:00,159 --> 01:56:04,359
six hours of infotainment. I'm going
to be lecturing on geopolitics, espionage,

1383
01:56:04,439 --> 01:56:09,239
dark spiritual forces, blackmail and all
that. Jamie, my wife,

1384
01:56:09,960 --> 01:56:15,359
lectures on esoteric Hollywood concepts and topics. Isaac Byshet will be giving a deep

1385
01:56:15,560 --> 01:56:19,520
esoteric Kubrick talk, and of course
Jamie Kennedy does his stand up routine and

1386
01:56:19,640 --> 01:56:23,079
takes a lot of Q and a. You can also get all of your

1387
01:56:23,479 --> 01:56:28,239
scream memorabilia and what not signed.
Trust me, it's great, it's fun.

1388
01:56:28,399 --> 01:56:30,000
We'll have books, books signing.
You can get your book signed and

1389
01:56:30,000 --> 01:56:34,159
all that our books, everybody's books, Isaac Wischep's books as well, and

1390
01:56:34,399 --> 01:56:40,159
there's the link to that. Otherwise, thank you guys for a good discussion.

1391
01:56:40,319 --> 01:56:43,319
Maybe David Ike will come around and
decide he wants to do a debate.

1392
01:56:43,840 --> 01:56:46,600
It'd be great if Alex moderates that. He said he would be willing

1393
01:56:46,640 --> 01:56:49,199
to do it. I don't think
you will, but I'm definitely down to

1394
01:56:49,239 --> 01:56:53,359
do it if he wants to.
We can have a friendly, you know,

1395
01:56:53,520 --> 01:56:57,439
civil conversation. But for the because
I don't think it'll happen.