WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.519 --> 00:00:08.640 Longing for some nostalgia, or maybe you want to learn some wrestling history, 2 00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:13.880 don't miss the nineties Pass cast Every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. 3 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:18.679 Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by taking you 4 00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:23.280 through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow news from the WWF and 5 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:27.920 WCW, and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as 6 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:32.799 The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties passcasts every Friday for 7 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:55.679 the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you 8 00:00:55.759 --> 00:01:00.799 the Wade Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for wades and interview with one 9 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:11.840 of pro wrestling's newsmakers. In today's Interview Classic, we jump back ten years 10 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:15.680 to my interview with x WWWE creative team member John Piermarini. We talked to 11 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:21.079 WrestleMania twenty nine, the raucous crowd at RAW that week. I'll look back 12 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:25.359 at legacy including Cody Rhodes, Randy Orton, and of course Teddy Biassi Jr. 13 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:27.719 And we also had to look ahead to WrestleMania thirty and more. As 14 00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:34.680 always, we had live calls and emails and insight into the mind and backstage 15 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:38.760 demeanor and practices of Vince McMahon. John was a frequent guest during this era 16 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.480 for a reason on my podcasts, and you'll hear it here on our ten 17 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:48.439 years Ago Interview Classic Flashback from April twelve, twenty thirteen, and it is 18 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:53.560 Today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast for Thursday, April twentieth, twenty twenty three. 19 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:57.719 Tomorrow we'll have the follow up show the Flagship from ten years ago with 20 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:05.319 Jason Powis. Look Welcome to dp Wporch Livecast. I am Way Keller, 21 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:10.919 editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter since nineteen eighty seven and also 22 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:17.000 pewtorch dot com since nineteen ninety nine and now the PW Torch apps for the 23 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:22.960 last three or four years free on iPhone, Android, Amazon, Kindle, 24 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:25.520 Fire and Windows phones and many international carriers. Just do a search for PW 25 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:30.680 Torch and also for the last three and a half years or going on three 26 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:32.800 and a half the PW Torch Livecast. We are here five days a week 27 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:37.960 and sometimes six on Big after Big pay per views, I host on Tuesdays 28 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:42.520 with Jason Powell of the website pro Wrestling dot Net and on Fridays, it 29 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:46.360 is Interview Friday, and in about five minutes, I will be joined by 30 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:51.280 former WWE Creative Team member John Piermarini, a friend of the show for a 31 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:53.879 couple of years now. Actually it's probably going on three years since since he 32 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:59.159 first appeared on the show. He spent two years working for WWE on the 33 00:02:59.159 --> 00:03:00.960 Creative Team, or the better part of two years in two thousand and nine 34 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:06.039 and two ten, and he was around a couple of WrestleManias, and he 35 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:10.280 was around for a lot of raws. And what I'm definitely interested in talking 36 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:14.479 to him about, and we've gotten some email questions already about this is how 37 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:19.000 does Vince McMahon and the rest of the team who are involved behind the scenes 38 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:24.280 in WWE react to crowds like we saw on Monday Nights who was a raucous 39 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:29.000 crowd when raw was over, like a lot of people. I was just 40 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:34.039 going nuts. I Mean, I thought this was just an amazing wrestling experience 41 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:38.759 to watch on television and had to be, as many have testified, an 42 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:44.080 amazing experience in person in the building in East Rutherford, New Jersey at ISSOD 43 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:46.680 Center. So I want to find out from John how Vince McMahon, the 44 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:52.439 creative team and management react to various types of crowds, really quiet crowds and 45 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:54.319 really raucous crowds. But like Monday night, I thought, Wow, this 46 00:03:54.439 --> 00:03:58.680 was great, made for great TV. Now the further out I get a 47 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:00.800 little more sober, a little further away from the adrenaline rush of oh my 48 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:03.400 god, I can't believe what I'm watching or what I just saw. There's 49 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:06.919 some pros and cons to it, and some pros and cons to a crowd 50 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:12.840 quote hijacking a show. The pros clearly are the level of energy on that 51 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:15.720 show we haven't seen. And I mean there's been some crowds in England that 52 00:04:15.720 --> 00:04:19.040 have been really good and you know, crazy and loud, and there's been 53 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:24.879 some other crowds. Obviously during the cm punk in Chicago against John Cena, 54 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:27.639 that was wild, but that was for a wrestler in particular who was a 55 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:30.360 hometown guy and he was really over and they were anti another guy who was 56 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:34.439 the top star. This was different and it was fascinating to watch play out. 57 00:04:34.519 --> 00:04:40.480 And you know, we talked last week on the show about the boring 58 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:43.879 chant a team to throw John Cena off a little bit two weeks ago on 59 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:47.560 Raw, and then this last week the crowd at the EISAD Center did, 60 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:51.800 among many many many things, meant chant boring at John Cena. And so 61 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:56.399 it shows that something can catch on, especially if it seems like a wrestler 62 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:00.560 is affected by it a little bit. So I'm curious how crowd to react 63 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:04.199 going forward, including watching SmackDown to night just to see if there's anything on 64 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:09.959 TV that that is a residual effect of it. So the pro side is 65 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:14.519 it makes WWE seem like a really overproduct that the crowd is just into and 66 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:17.800 you can't turn the channel when you're watching it, and it helped create a 67 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:21.839 star. Is he going to be a novelty act like Santino or Zach Ryder 68 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:27.040 or is he going to be something bigger than that? That remains to be 69 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:32.519 seen. But Fondongo, he became kind of a cult wrestler overnight and validated 70 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:36.959 time so far that fencic Mann has invested in him. But what about reacting 71 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:42.199 the way that they did to John cnn Rybeck. Well, the crowd kind 72 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:47.120 of or ww WE kind of put the crowd put themselves in a position to 73 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:53.199 have the fans react in an unpredictable way because Raybeck and Scene are both baby 74 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:56.879 faces. Same thing with Shamus, but in a different way. They put 75 00:05:56.879 --> 00:06:00.199 Shamus and Norton in a bad position by not having a true he all in 76 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:02.879 a true faith, and it put the fans in a position to entertain themselves 77 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:08.079 since they didn't feel all that strongly about who won. So I think WW 78 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:10.879 has to learn a lot of lessons, or can learn a lot of lessons 79 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:14.279 from this, and I think we'll see going forward what those what some of 80 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:17.279 those lessons turn out to be, and that will be dictated by future crowds. 81 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:20.720 So that is absolutely one of the main subjects that I want to talk 82 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:26.160 about on today's show, obviously, and we have opened foam lines for John 83 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:29.720 Primerini. We want to talk more about Wresslemania, John, James Caldwell, 84 00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:33.600 who's John John Primmerini. Of course, James Caldwell and Sean Radkin yesterday talked 85 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:40.199 a lot about Wressomania and raw And also I'm willing to take some calls on 86 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:43.120 impact, although I don't know that John watch the show, so we probably 87 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.680 want to stay focused on WWE unless it's a quick thought or question on last 88 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:48.920 night's show. When I say that only because it did air last night, 89 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:51.560 it was live, and it was one of their bigger shows, I do 90 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:57.160 want to note ratings are in for that show, and it's not good news 91 00:06:57.160 --> 00:07:00.920 for TNA. This is a show that they built up and they started off 92 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:05.319 with an awful first quarter hour rating of point seven five. I do not 93 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:10.439 know what happened to cause such a low rating, but the good news is 94 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:14.720 it grew from there. Not it grew, but it didn't end up much 95 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.439 higher than what the average has been lately. Went from point seven five to 96 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:21.800 point seven nine to point nine one, down a little bit too point eight 97 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:25.360 four in the fourth quarter, but there were two commercial breaks, I believe 98 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:28.879 in that quarter. Then in the beginning of the second hour it jumped up 99 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:31.040 to a point nine six, and then a point nine eight and then a 100 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:35.040 one point zero six in the main event at least peaked with a one point 101 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:41.319 one three rating that averaged out to a point nine nine with one point two 102 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:45.519 million viewers. So that's something that James Caldwell will be breaking down and writing 103 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:53.040 more about in in his story on pwtorch dot com, and I'll have more 104 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:57.040 to say about it also on the Kelor hot Line this weekend. So lots 105 00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:00.920 of cool stuff to talk about now. Our phone numbers here are six four, 106 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:05.279 six, seven, two one nine eight two eight six four six seven 107 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:11.000 two one nine eight two eight and the email you can email me right now 108 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:18.399 is PW Torch livecast at gmail dot com. PW Torch Livecast at gmail dot 109 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:24.439 com. And I'll be checking for email questions for John Piermarini as the show 110 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:28.279 progresses. We only have two people on hold right now, so if you 111 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:30.639 want to get in line, we'll get to pretty quickly. I know sometimes 112 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:35.080 our wait times on this show are incredibly long. That is, at the 113 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:39.720 moment not the case, so chime right in if you want to talk about 114 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:45.320 Monday's Raw or the pay per view. Now. I'm assuming the two people 115 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:48.919 on hold probably have questions for John. But as we await John calling in, 116 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:50.120 he just had one thing come up that's going to cause him to have 117 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.840 to call in five or ten minutes into the show, and he should be 118 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:56.639 with us any moment now. But if you have a question for John, 119 00:08:56.679 --> 00:08:58.080 wait till he comes on the show before calling unless you just want to get 120 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:03.360 in line right away. But if I go to you and you just want 121 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.120 to wait for John to be on the show, no harm and just say 122 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:07.000 so, and I'll put you back on hold and we'll go back to you. 123 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:11.480 But for the moment, I will go to Eric code two one six 124 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:16.240 first and then eight six two two one six. Welcome to the show. 125 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:24.600 Please take your name and where you're from to one six brand. Okay, 126 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:26.519 Brian, I'm putting you on hold because you're giving getting a lot of feedback. 127 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:28.720 That's where I'm gonna bust a few ear drums. If there's anything you 128 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:31.320 can do to get better reception on your phone, or if you just want 129 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:33.759 to hang up and call right back, maybe you'll get a better connection. 130 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:37.000 Brian. But it was really there's a lot of background noise and static there. 131 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:39.600 Um. But I'll look for two one six to pop up again. 132 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:45.159 Please call back if you can. Okay, Um, let's go instead now 133 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:48.600 to eight six two eight six two. Thanks for calling. Please state your 134 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:52.759 name in where you're from. Hey, wait, hey, Kylan, how 135 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:56.320 are you doing? Um? Well, I would like to stay on hold 136 00:09:56.360 --> 00:10:01.879 for John and damn thank resolutely, Like I said, no problem, we 137 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:05.320 like that people are calling up for our guests. Oh shoot, um, 138 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:07.360 okay, kylin, I hip, I'm not used to uh putting people in 139 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:09.320 Oh no, I did put you on hold successfully? Okay? Good? 140 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:11.600 I thought I just hung up on you, but I didn't. All right, 141 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:16.159 so let me let me save your name in the queue, and uh 142 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:18.840 we'll try two and six one more time. Let's get that backround. Noises 143 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:22.720 any better? Two one six? Yeah? Hey, bright, it's brand 144 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.200 Way. Hey, it's Brandon from Cleveland. My question is work for John? 145 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:31.440 So I can wait? If I absolutely glad we got people eager, 146 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:35.799 eager to talk to John. Um, I will try try this one more 147 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:39.240 time and uh go to five on six, five on six? You want 148 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:41.120 ask question to me? Or do you want to wait for John? Oh 149 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:43.879 no, I'll give you a question that way. It's Casey long Oland New 150 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:48.440 Sure. Thanks Casey. What have you got for me? Um? With 151 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:52.159 all the speculation on whether ride back turned heel or if it was just to 152 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:56.440 go up against John Cena, do you see any way that they give him 153 00:10:56.440 --> 00:11:00.200 a stone cold character where just nobody is safe around him. He's just as 154 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:03.000 ding you can trust them me. He goes after anybody in every body. 155 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.000 I think they do I and I don't. I don't agree Casey with the 156 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:09.799 idea that they turned him heal on Monday. Um, And like somebody on 157 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:15.320 my Twitter accounts said, how can you turn someone hel when everybody cheers for 158 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:18.879 what he did? And I don't think Monday's crowd is a great example of 159 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:22.720 that. I don't think you can hold um people accountable or you can't hold 160 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:28.440 accountable for for that turn um not working in front of that crowd, because 161 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:31.879 as the announcers even said, it was kind of backwards day or bizarro day. 162 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:33.919 Um. And not every crowd it is going to be like that. 163 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:37.919 They're not going to have that kind of international hardcore contingency that are you know, 164 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.120 have all this pent up energy from a stadium show the night before when 165 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:45.759 they really weren't hurt and they were cold, and then the most hardcore fans 166 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:48.919 stayed an extra day and filled that building and you know they're they're the ones 167 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.600 who bought the tickets to the second show, you know, the second show 168 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.279 of the weekend. Um, you know those are the hardcore fans. So 169 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:58.600 I don't Yeah, I don't think. Well, so I'll address the second 170 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:05.559 party question too, So I don't think that that that crowd should be a 171 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:09.679 big judgment on what the mainstream fans thought. And Bruce Mitchell and I and 172 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:13.320 the Bruce Mitchellidio Show this weekend, close to two hours of the Bruce Mitchellidio 173 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.080 Show, half the discussion or more was about that crowd on Monday and putting 174 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:18.320 kind of a historical perspective on it and the pros and cons of it. 175 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.759 And you know, one of the discussions was how many fans sitting at home 176 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.440 on TV watch that it felt very differently than the crowd reaction and was that 177 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:28.879 good or bad for the product? With ry Back, the question is, 178 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:33.159 does ww we want to have a character who's cast as a baby face where 179 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:37.960 nobody's safe, and how do you how do you work that character without, 180 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:43.080 like you said, Casey, imitating Steve Austen and having him look like not 181 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:46.519 only a derivative of Goldberg, now a derivative of stone Cold. But that 182 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:50.720 said, some good ideas are worth repeating in a different way in a different 183 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.159 era. If you didn't repeat ideas from the past, wrestling shows would be 184 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:58.200 pretty empty because everything you see has in some way been done before. So 185 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:03.600 Casey we're gonna say, oh, yeah, no, I I agree, 186 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:07.039 it's just a stone call. Was such a unique character, you know that 187 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:09.840 that he was a face, but he would turn on a face with no 188 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:13.519 problem and get a bigger hop. Yeah, you know what like lightening bottle. 189 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:15.799 You know. I would say too though that that was something that he 190 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:20.039 did later. And like I really really really did not like when he gave 191 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.039 like, um was that stacy was it Stacy cable? He gave a stunn 192 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:28.759 or tooth um. I wasn't a fan of that. I thought he started 193 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:33.960 kind of seeming, you know, giving unprovoked, m unprovoked h stunners to 194 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:39.080 people I thought was actually at the tail end of his run of being effective. 195 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:41.039 I liked him better when he went after people for a reason and not 196 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:46.120 just to get kind of a pop for doing a move against against somebody who 197 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:48.039 was kind of helpless in Volna. But but um, so I think Dribex 198 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:50.080 should take a spot and I think you could book him in a way that 199 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:52.639 would that would work case he appreciate the call. Do you want to do 200 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:54.840 you want to come back on in a few minutes with when John as wizard? 201 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:56.720 You want to me to put to hang up on you or put gen 202 00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:58.679 hole. Yeah, you could put me on hold. 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They offset one hundred percent of their delivery 225 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:28.039 emissions, source one hundred percent renewal energy for their production sites, and feature 226 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:33.320 sustainably sourced seafood in their meals. So head to Factor meals dot com slash 227 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:39.720 Wade fifty. That's Factor meals dot com slash fifty and use code Wade fifty 228 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:45.279 to get fifty percent off your first box. That's code Wade fifty at Factor 229 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:48.600 Meals dot com slash Wade fifty to get fifty percent off your first box. 230 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:56.240 Now I hear at the chimes, that means John purmarine is with me, 231 00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:00.200 John, welcome to the show. Has a goment good. I already gave 232 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:03.200 you an introduction that you did not hear, so everyone is up steed. 233 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:07.840 You worked behind the scenes in WWE on the creative team, um and uh 234 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:11.759 in most of two thousand and nine and most of two thousand and ten. 235 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:15.600 I believe that's right. Yep, yep, And so you're around for two 236 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:19.919 WrestleManias, I believe, and also worked closely at times with a number of 237 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:23.120 wrestlers who are still on the roster, of course, including John Cena, 238 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:29.000 and certainly you worked around Vince Icmahan. What a fascinating two days I know 239 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:32.799 you were at you had a chance to tend Wrestlemanian person before we get to 240 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.360 Monday's raw. Um and as we let phone callers still up the phone lines 241 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:41.679 to ask you questions, UM, what what was your impression of WrestleMania as 242 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.519 a show, uh, from a business perspective and also just as a live 243 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.320 experience to uh, to see the event at that at that magnitude, So 244 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:56.440 I gotta be honest as far as a WrestleMania goes, I didn't I didn't 245 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:59.639 see a lot of it. Um, oh, okay, I saw I 246 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:03.880 saw uh. Let's see, I saw them, um Slater del Rio obviously, 247 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:10.640 I saw um uh some of rock Cina. I saw a Punk Undertaker, 248 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.960 um. And then I think I saw a Brock like the Hunter Brock. 249 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.200 You have a majority of that. And then yeah, okay, so 250 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:22.720 I guess I saw the big ones. Really, no one's talking about the 251 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:25.680 other stuff, so you don't you don't have to worry too much. Um. 252 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:26.799 Yeah, yeah, So what were your thoughts on what you saw? 253 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:30.759 And also, you know you can speak up to the booking also, yeah, 254 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.759 you know, I thought, Um, I don't know, it didn't 255 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:40.400 really feel like a WrestleMania as far as like the booking win. Um, 256 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:45.960 A lot of rematches, um, a lot of a lot of I mean, 257 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:48.319 I know that they did a pretty good job in building it up, 258 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.119 but I didn't really think that the stories were strong. And I know that 259 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:56.440 a lot of people were against the plump Undertaker story and the way that they 260 00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:59.839 went about that. I was actually a fan of it. I actually thought 261 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:03.839 that put although I believe Punk deserved to be the guy in there would take 262 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:08.279 her at Mania, I didn't feel like it was a sort of a fresh 263 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:14.240 WrestleMania matchup. But I think that they did what they did with the story, 264 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:17.160 like really sort of turned it into one, at least for me. 265 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:22.079 But it sounds like I'm in the minority, Rock Sina, and again, 266 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:25.920 you know, sometimes I read what you have to say, and although I 267 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:30.000 agree with you again in um they booked it maybe the way that it should 268 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.880 have been booked last year. It did it didn't give me much to to 269 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:38.200 look forward to as far as I've got to see this this match again. 270 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:41.519 And I think most of it had to do with the fact that I don't 271 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:47.720 think they properly told the John John Cena story from last year to this year, 272 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:51.920 which was, you know, my life has been in a tailspin because 273 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.400 I lost you. But in reality, I mean he beat Brock Lessner. 274 00:18:55.640 --> 00:19:00.200 It wasn't that bad, uh, And I don't think that actually they reversed 275 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:06.480 history um WW officially moved to Brock match before WrestleMania. Did they really well? 276 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:08.440 But I mean a storyline wise, they almost have you know, I 277 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:11.079 mean, you're right, how do you lose to Rock and then beat the 278 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:15.440 former USC heavyweight champion and tell the story? So they actually just ignored that 279 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:18.160 that happened conveniently, but I know what you mean as far as that goes. 280 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:21.279 Yeah, so you know, again, I don't want to go on 281 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:22.599 forever just about that, but I feel like, you know, if that 282 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.160 was the story that they were going to go with, which could have been 283 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:30.240 really good, you know, and then towards the Anti kind of gained momentum 284 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:33.319 by beating punks, they could have told that story, but they didn't have 285 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.799 the backstory to really back it up. Hunter Brock, I don't know. 286 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:41.279 I think that. I think, if you're gonna have these guys there, 287 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.839 and again, it was an argument I had when I was there, when 288 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:49.119 we had Sean and Hunter and Batista and Jericho and guys that we knew weren't 289 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:52.240 going to be there much so longer, wouldn't you have these guys? And 290 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:56.440 God, I feel like it used to be this way when I was a 291 00:19:56.519 --> 00:20:02.400 kid watching you utilize those guys to create new stars. So what they did 292 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.119 was they took everyone that they had that was established and they put them against 293 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:10.440 each other and didn't really help anybody. I don't think Sina, I don't 294 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:14.400 think Sina beating Rock really did anything for him, you know, I mean 295 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:18.480 bragging rights as far as what his character can say or how wwe can then 296 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:22.920 go push him. But I don't think it really helped them. You know, 297 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:26.920 they had Hunter who went against Rock, and they could have utilized both 298 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:33.000 guys against younger talent. Jericho they did. Jericho, they did. I'll 299 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:37.319 give him that, But I feel like I feel like these guys have a 300 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:42.599 limited lifespan left as characters in the WW universe, and I feel like they're 301 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:48.480 not taking advantage of it to really help somebody out. And it really showed 302 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:52.920 when we lost HBK and we lost a Hunter for a while when I was 303 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:57.079 there and Batista and Jericho, and we had really nothing to show for it 304 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:02.400 with guys walking away from that in Hey, you know, I got rid 305 00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:06.440 of these guys or I beat them. And it's like the I compared to 306 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:08.680 the lot to the heavyweight division in boxing. You know, you could have 307 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.960 a guy be a world champion today, but no one will sit there and 308 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.519 go okay, And I wonder how he would have measured up against the greats. 309 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:18.240 You know, clich Goo, no one. No one wants to see 310 00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:22.279 clich Go, Tyson, clich Goo, al Uh, Clichko, holy Field. 311 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:26.079 You know, so That's kind of where it's at with them, where 312 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:29.519 people I think even go all right, seem as the big star, but 313 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:33.319 seem is not really the rock. He's not stone cold, he's not whole 314 00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:37.279 COVID, you know. And I think that they could actually give those guys 315 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:42.839 that rub if they Randy cour Rock, Lesner, uh John now Brock fizzled 316 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:47.640 out, you know, to his diverticulitis. But um, but you know, 317 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:49.759 people would have wondered how would co tutor against Lesner, And they at 318 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:53.440 the very end of Cotour's career, matched him against Lesner and Lesner one and 319 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:56.960 that helped put him over. That's I think what you're talking about with wanting 320 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.240 to see something and I know MMA better in boxing, and your analogy works 321 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.920 too, But that's what you're saying, you know, let's get Hunter in 322 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:07.440 there and have him put over a dull Siegler. Let's have a Rock in 323 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:11.480 there, not against somebody like Sena who's at in the last third of his 324 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:14.720 prime and he's had a good run. He's not he's still in his prime, 325 00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:17.799 but really put some try to put somebody new over, and that's what 326 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:21.599 it seems like. They're not even looking for that and Jericho Fandango, as 327 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:23.160 you pointed out, is the exception that proves the rule you're speaking of. 328 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:26.920 Yeah, exactly, And you know, I think UFC has been so great 329 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:30.279 at doing that. They see that the uh, the Keeto ortis is the 330 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:36.039 Chuck Liddell's at this point, you know, like Van Hens, Dan Henderson, 331 00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:38.920 They're seeing these guys have main values, but they're on their way out 332 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:41.759 and they and they don't have a title run left in them. So what 333 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.640 do they do. Let's match them against these up and coming guys and and 334 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:51.160 make stars out of them and gives the dream match job, give the dream 335 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:52.960 match that connects the tour. It's like even and that's twenty years ago back 336 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:56.400 issues of the Torch that VFP members are able to read. Uh and uh. 337 00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:00.480 Scott Hall actually talked about this with me a few weeks ago in the 338 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:02.480 live cast when I don't know if you heard it, John, but I 339 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:04.000 did four and a half hours with Scott Hall and Sean Waltman a few weeks 340 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.519 ago. As it was amazing interview. UM and Scott talked about you know, 341 00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.400 being match against Randy Savage when he first got to WWE, and you 342 00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:17.039 know that Randy was a long time marquee, uh legacy established star in Raizer. 343 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:19.000 Ramon was his character that bevins cmahn was in love with and he matched 344 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:22.559 him up to give Scott Hall. You know that that that that evidence to 345 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:26.759 current fans that this guy can hang with Randy, not just competitively but star 346 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:30.319 power wise. He can share the stage and look like he belongs. And 347 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:34.759 that's that's It's not about winning and losing entirely or even mostly, I would 348 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:38.319 say, it's standing in the ring and looking like you belong. And that's 349 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:42.039 that's what you know, people have to evaluate, whether in karn about it 350 00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:45.240 or just in their guts. Did von Domo look like he belonged with Jericho? 351 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.039 And you know, johny Kursky looked good against Jericho, like that was 352 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.359 a good match and he looked like he belonged in there. And and that's 353 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.680 a that was a test with Rybeck initially when they actually started putting Raybeck against 354 00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:59.880 competitive guys. Does he look like he belongs in the ring against Jon far 355 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:03.160 and he did so, and see I'm punk went through that too, So 356 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:07.119 some guys have benefited from that. But WrestleMania, John seems like a platform 357 00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:10.200 and I want to ask you about during the two years you were there, 358 00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:14.720 it seems like a platform or WWE isn't thinking about building future stars. They're 359 00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:18.720 thinking about maximizing the buy rate. And they've made the decision, I think, 360 00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:22.079 And tell me if you think I'm wrong that they think WrestleMania should be 361 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.480 on top the biggest stars as the biggest stars, and they'll worry about building 362 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:30.599 future stars the next day on Raw or the next you know, the next 363 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:33.920 couple of months. But WrestleMania is all about maximizing the buy rate, and 364 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:38.000 they will not risk some guy who's not over at the proven top draw being 365 00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:41.880 in one of those top spots. Yeah, you know, I'm okay with 366 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:45.039 that, as long as you know they understand that and correct me if I'm 367 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.240 long that. I mean, what are they doing the other eleven months on 368 00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:51.880 page for view one hundred thousand and two hundred thousand buys? I mean, 369 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:53.880 you're not getting such a huge audience as long as you take to guys like 370 00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:59.319 the scene of rocks and triple h's and rock lesseners and undertakers and who have 371 00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:03.119 rest and realizing those guys properly on Raw to build these guys and sure, 372 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:06.880 if you want to use WrestleManias as you know, the big card where the 373 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:10.240 big names go at each other and the dream matches, that's fine. But 374 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.119 I don't think they're utilizing the other year. But you said a good point 375 00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:18.200 with the What's what Scott Halla said was you know he was so into the 376 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:22.720 Razor Remote character that he put him against watch them as well. The key 377 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.519 point is that he was really into the Raising Remote character, and I think 378 00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:33.039 he's really into this Fandango character. So he's he's putting trust in himself, 379 00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:36.960 you know, he goes, that's that's my creation. I put my trust 380 00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:40.200 in myself. We're going to push that. Yep. Um. He might 381 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:44.960 look at the rest of the roster and go, yeah, you know, 382 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:49.319 nothing really there. So let's let's make the almighty dollar and we'll worry about 383 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:52.680 it later. And sometimes it just becomes too late. You know, you 384 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.880 lose the Batista as you lose the Triple A, because you lose the Seans 385 00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:59.920 and you go, okay, well how do we make these guys? And 386 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:02.519 then another thing I used to say was okay, well we're not going to 387 00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:04.920 do that, which leads to you know, say, Miz winning money in 388 00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:10.160 the bank. Well, you only have you only have so many keys to 389 00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:14.880 like really get a guy over instantly, you know, and one of those 390 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:18.759 things is Royal Rumble money in the bank, and you need to put the 391 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:23.119 right guys in that position to go. Okay, Miz is a mid card 392 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:26.640 guy, Golf is a mid card guy. Alberto del Rio is a mid 393 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.000 card guy. The second you gave him that briefcase or you give him Royal 394 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:37.400 Rumble, the perception of them become main event guys. And there's if you 395 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:41.119 don't utilize those tools, you're really missing out. And I feel like having, 396 00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:45.640 you know, the John Cenas go over in the Royal Rumble, you're 397 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.880 you're you're really sort of limiting yourself on what you could do because I don't 398 00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:56.480 think you could use a Alberto del Rio to get a Dolf Ziggler over right 399 00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.440 now. You need that that Chris Jericho, you need that Shawn Michaels to 400 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:07.079 be able to elevate those guys. Otherwise it's just using the boxing analogy. 401 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:10.359 It's it's using those guys to become the next glitch go and then people just 402 00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:12.599 go. You know, remember when they had Brett Hart, Remember when they 403 00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:17.640 had Ultimate Warrior Man. Those were some stars. Now it's just yeah, 404 00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:19.960 you know, it's Dolf Ziggler or it's whoever it may be at the time. 405 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.599 Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next level with a 406 00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:29.480 VIP membership. Get shows like this the Wait Killer Prosing Podcast, Wait Killer 407 00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:33.519 Prosing Post show and the pw Torch daily casts on our pw Torch VIP podcast 408 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:38.440 feed with ads and plugs removed from the shows for a streamlined listening experience. 409 00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.200 And also here the VP exclusive shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd 410 00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:45.960 Martin, Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with Todd Martin signature VP series 411 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:49.359 that you're missing out without a VIP membership, So go vi ip here in 412 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:53.559 twenty twenty two and enjoy all the benefits, all the bonus content and the 413 00:27:53.720 --> 00:28:02.160 ad free listening experience. Pwtorch dot com slash go vi ip. They're not 414 00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:04.759 just a sponsor. I am a customer of Factor Home Delivery Meals. Go 415 00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:10.599 to Factor Meals dot com slash wade fifty to get fifty percent off your first 416 00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:14.880 box of chef prepared meals never frozen. But there's no prep work, Just 417 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:17.799 pop them in the microwave, and three minutes later you have a meal. 418 00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:22.359 No tip, no waiting for delivery, no greasy food, great ingredients, 419 00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:26.640 great flavor, great selection for all kinds of diets. Highly recommended. Go 420 00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:34.599 check it out Factor Meals dot com, slash Wade fifty great good John. 421 00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:37.440 I want to talk about raw but I have a feeling some callers will talk 422 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:41.119 about that. So let's take some calls and that so people aren't not all 423 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.559 too long, and then if they don't cover some territory I want to with 424 00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.079 you. We'll talk about the remarkable episode of Ron Monday with that raucous crowd 425 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:52.920 at Ison Center. Let's let's go first to Erico two one six. Brandon 426 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:55.680 from Cleveland is with us. Brandon, please stage, you don't don't teach 427 00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:56.759 your name and where you're from. We know who you are and where you're 428 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.759 from. What's your question for John? All right? Hey John? Um? 429 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:06.119 I had two questions. My first question was, Um, since it's 430 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:07.640 been a little over two years now, can you finally left the cut out 431 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:11.839 the bat? No? Well, what the plan was, But you know, 432 00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:15.240 John, I was actually had you if you weren't late for the show. 433 00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:18.440 John, I was actually gonna preface by going this show, that question 434 00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:21.960 is off limits because we've covered it before and you get pelted with it every 435 00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:25.400 time. But since I didn't block, since I didn't say that, it's 436 00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:27.279 only fair game. Address that however you want, John, But that's it, 437 00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:33.799 then we're gonna move on. Yeah, there's there's certain things. Yeah, 438 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.279 we'll go back to Brandon. I'm just saying we'll quickly. Yeah, 439 00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:41.960 I don't blame anybody for asking that question. Um, but a couple of 440 00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:45.440 things on that one, just so for future reference. One. Um, 441 00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:51.839 I think I've I think in my time in talking with you and having the 442 00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:57.680 website and all that, I've given away a plethora of kidbit and Um, 443 00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:03.519 there's just certain things that I just whatever the reason they be, out of 444 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.799 respect for them or just out of respects for not wanting to get in trouble. 445 00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:11.319 Um, I'm not going to go, you know there with the anonymous 446 00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:17.279 GM or nexus and uh uh you know, like I said, maybe one 447 00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:19.200 day if I decide that, you know, I wanted to do something, 448 00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.839 then then I have my uh, I have my key piece to build around. 449 00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:26.680 So and also John, I in your in your defense too, Um, 450 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.160 you said from the beginning when they reveal it, you'll say if it 451 00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:33.960 was something different, and and you've said that it was something different, and 452 00:30:34.279 --> 00:30:37.799 uh, it had been reported that it was Triple H and you commented that 453 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.519 on a previous show. Um, but it was one of those situations where 454 00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:45.200 they didn't play it out as was expected or you know, as it was 455 00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:48.720 expected originally. Um and uh, but you you, having left the company, 456 00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:51.960 didn't want to reveal a trade secret that will get you in trouble. 457 00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:53.880 Um that was at that scale. And so that's where people got first. 458 00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:56.960 But you did say you'd reveal it when they revealed it, and we talked 459 00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:59.680 about it, and there was a report that Triple H was going to be 460 00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:02.279 the guy. But you haven't gotten into any of the details that you knew, 461 00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:04.079 Um, that you knew in terms of how it was going to play 462 00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:07.640 out, because that might be something they want to go back to. So 463 00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:11.960 yeah, fair enough. I mean here, here's where I'll say too, 464 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:15.680 is that you know, if it was done and done then then um. 465 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:21.240 But but but I can just say this that there there is probably with both 466 00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:23.160 stories, I mean, all that could still come back. So again, 467 00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:26.519 you know, I just there's a lot of things that a lot of people 468 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.880 know about a lot of things and not everything comes out and I just you 469 00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.200 know, yeah, fair enough. No, we got that all the way. 470 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:34.880 So if that's why you're on hold or you're about to email, let's 471 00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.559 stay away from that just And I say that only because if you're really curious 472 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:40.519 about it, you can go back to other shows. John has been on 473 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:45.119 UM the John's been on the show numerous times in the last few years and 474 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:47.839 uh, and we've talked a decent amount about it in the past, So 475 00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:49.960 it's a it's a good excuse to go into the archives and search for John 476 00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:55.440 Primarini either on the PW Torch Livecast app on iPhone or at at PW torch 477 00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:59.039 livecast dot com, which is the home of this show, and you can 478 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:02.480 listen to I think every show that we've ever done on that page by filtering 479 00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:06.640 through or clicking through, so you can find other shows with John, especially 480 00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:08.240 if you're new to the show, and enjoy what you hear on today's show. 481 00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:10.799 I definitely encourage you to go back and listen. I did a what 482 00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:15.079 was it about? Was it three or five? I think it was five 483 00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:17.279 hours of a torch talk we did originally right John. Yeah, it was 484 00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:22.559 very long. Yeah, and so if you know now when we do the 485 00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:24.200 show, we talk current events, but John went in depth for I think 486 00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:29.960 close to five hours in a Torch talk that was that was exclusive four VIP 487 00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:34.039 members and Torch newsletter subscribers at the time three years ago. And that is 488 00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:37.640 all transcribed and all available to listen to if you sign up for a VIP 489 00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:40.839 membership and if you're not a VP membership, if you're not a VPP member, 490 00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:45.079 as always I encourage you to become one, and you can do so 491 00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:51.400 by going to PW Torch dot com Flash Go v IP. We have a 492 00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:55.599 great testimonial today, by the way, on our Facebook page that I posted. 493 00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:59.519 It was an email that somebody sent today, but it was a really 494 00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:04.599 nice from somebody who had been following the Torch for about ten years online and 495 00:33:04.759 --> 00:33:08.039 had not become a VIP member until this past week, and they just said 496 00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:13.480 that and if my internet was not driving me absolutely crazy the last couple hours, 497 00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:16.039 I would have had loaded it by now. But it's still chugging along 498 00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:20.759 slowly. But it was really nice testimonial. And we do have a sale 499 00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:23.160 going. It ends tonight, but it is half off your first month, 500 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:27.119 so if you wanted to, if you wanted to sign up, we've got 501 00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:30.519 links up on pwtorch dot com, on the PW Torch app, on our 502 00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:35.880 Facebook page, and also on our Twitter page. We're at PW Torch on 503 00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:40.079 Twitter and Facebook. You can find us at facebook dot com slash Pro Wrestling 504 00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:44.559 Torch. Here's a quick testimonial is just off from Chris and he said, 505 00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:45.359 wait, I just want to drop your a quick note to say, I 506 00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:49.599 can't believe I've been using your site withoutgoing v IP for over ten years. 507 00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:53.119 I subscribe this morning in the VIP section is absolutely fantastic. I fully intend 508 00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:57.599 to keep the subscription for the foreseeable future. It really is a great product. 509 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:00.559 So anyway, nice note. I appreciate Chris sending that along. It 510 00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:04.160 always makes my day. And you can listen to the entire John Primarni Torch 511 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:07.719 talk instantly by signing up today and you get it happen price through the end 512 00:34:07.719 --> 00:34:09.880 of day. That's when our sale ends. It's just a short sale. 513 00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:16.679 Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or AW Dynamite in particular, send 514 00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:20.079 us an email if you've got thoughts on the show. Or a topic you 515 00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:24.280 want us to address or a question for us. Wade Kellor Podcast at pwtorch 516 00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:30.079 dot com. Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's anything else 517 00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:32.119 going on to pro wrestling that you want us to address on our main podcast 518 00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:37.199 during our mail bank segments, that same email applies Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch 519 00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:40.440 dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think of 520 00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:44.639 what we're saying, and let us know what you want us to talk about 521 00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:54.199 and ask us specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. All 522 00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:58.559 right, let's go back Brandon at a fault question of Brandon. Your phone 523 00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:00.400 connection is pretty bad against so UM. Once you have your question, I 524 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:07.199 put the back on hold right away. Yeah, my second question. I 525 00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:10.559 created a huge push for social media with the w W E YEP and John 526 00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:15.639 Up doing social media that I'm on in Facebook, but I just supposed to 527 00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:22.639 carry it. How much I can put un put into any uh you know 528 00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:28.519 closed or they get through Twitter or through Facebook or through any of the social 529 00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:32.119 media today if they hear enough book the same day or friend and I gotta 530 00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:36.960 put you on hold the clicking is just not it's just awful. Um. 531 00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:39.199 So we got we got enough of the subject there. Um, but I 532 00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:44.440 couldn't. I couldn't take it any longer. Um. Yeah, the real 533 00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.079 the social media push, John, I'm trying to match up time wise. 534 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:51.039 It seemed like they really got into Twitter after you left. Yeah, I 535 00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:53.000 know that the Uh, I know talent was on there. I know that. 536 00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:57.599 Uh. I don't think they were really looking that much into it at 537 00:35:57.639 --> 00:36:00.599 the time. I know that. I think they have somebody running it now. 538 00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:05.320 I don't know exactly who, but it'd be tough for me to answer 539 00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:07.760 that question. I mean, I think he was wondering how much do they 540 00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.760 look into it when when talents tweeting and stuff like that, Right, is 541 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:14.599 that probably what he wanted? Yeah, i'd like how much? Yeah, 542 00:36:14.599 --> 00:36:16.239 how much does Vince direct what is said? And how much does he react 543 00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:20.239 to what's said if it wasn't approved ahead of time, for instance, and 544 00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:23.280 someone's maybe that's something that Vince would would not have approved of. Yeah, 545 00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:28.440 I don't think that there is that safety net. I think it's just once 546 00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:30.079 it's out there, they deal with it at that time. If someone even 547 00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:34.679 spots it and again, that's just your speculation, because I know that the 548 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:37.559 guys were on it when I was there, and I know that it wasn't 549 00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:39.960 like it wasn't being policed, and it wasn't It wasn't like, hey, 550 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:43.440 I'm going to send out this tweet before I do, who do I need 551 00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:45.519 to run it by. But there's a code of conduct, and that's called 552 00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:49.280 common sense, and if you screw up, you're probably going to be in 553 00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:52.880 trouble. That's bread code of conduct. So they kind of hope that people 554 00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:55.440 use common sense on there. I haven't heard of an official guidebook or anything 555 00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:59.400 like that, but maybe something's come out since some people made some mistakes. 556 00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:01.039 But you know, in a way too, John, I mean social media 557 00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:04.800 and Twitter accounts for wrestlers, it's almost away for Vincent man to kind of 558 00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:07.840 figure out how much common sense some of these guys have, and if they 559 00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:12.119 give a bad common sense, maybe that's a good a good way to find 560 00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:13.880 out if he doesn't really want to put faith in them. You know, 561 00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:16.280 if like zac Ryder, I think has done himself a tremendous amount of good 562 00:37:16.599 --> 00:37:22.920 and then it kind of flipped into some tremendous amount of bad um he's very 563 00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:24.159 active. But then when he didn't get a push and started whining, you 564 00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:28.239 know, whining and complaining on on Twitter about it, I think it actually 565 00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:31.199 went too far and it seemed a little like insubordination, public in subordination, 566 00:37:31.239 --> 00:37:35.639 and I think that actually has worked against his TV time since then. You're 567 00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:38.440 probably right. You know, one thing that I was always sort of against 568 00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:44.199 UM was I always wondered why, and I might even brought this up on 569 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.119 his show. I always wondered why these guys would go on there under their 570 00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:52.280 their gimmick and talk like they were a normal guy. You know, you 571 00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:58.119 don't see uh, you don't see uh uh. You know, what's his 572 00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:00.320 name, Michael Hall that plays Dexter. You don't see him make a Dexter 573 00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:04.880 account and then you know, show pictures of him and his wife out on 574 00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:07.199 the beach, right, and you know, if he makes a Dexter Morgan 575 00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:10.320 account and he plays Dexter Morgan, whoever it is is running it, and 576 00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:14.119 then he has a Micael Hall Twitter and he does Michael Hall stuff, so 577 00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:15.760 you know, and I always thought they should have separated that. If you're 578 00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:19.440 going to go on there as fan dango, I think you need to be 579 00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:22.119 fan Dango, and I think that it could. It could benefit you, 580 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:27.039 you know, going on there and playing your character and finding your own way 581 00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:30.559 to tell stories and to and to further stories. But when you go on 582 00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:36.400 there and you take away the appeal of being this you know, this character, 583 00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:39.159 and you become a normal person and it normalizes you, I think that 584 00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:44.559 it takes away from you know, going in there and escaping reality and trying 585 00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:47.360 to believe this guy is who he is. I totally agree, you know, 586 00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:50.440 and like there's some people who are kind of who they are, like 587 00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:52.719 Randy Orton, um, you know, like I think he could go on 588 00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:58.679 Twitter and be him. I think he's enough himself on TV that he wouldn't 589 00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:01.039 necessarily need to separate accounts. But at the same time, I don't think 590 00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:05.480 we need to hear about Randy Orton plugging up his toilet at home or the 591 00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:08.159 Regigerator pairman is late and he's pissed off about it. Like, I think 592 00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:13.559 it humanizes them in a way that actually doesn't work towards the character that they 593 00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:15.079 play on TV. But but if you know, like people, I think 594 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:17.000 with somebody this weekend, I don't know if it's at the Hall of fame 595 00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:21.760 or what the context was, but they said Undertaker, please never go on 596 00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:25.000 Twitter. You know, like there's just certain people who shouldn't go on Twitter, 597 00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:29.599 and Undertaker is the ultimate example of that, you know. I mean, 598 00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:31.440 there's just there's absolutely no reason for I'm never go on Twitter. So 599 00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:35.960 well, listen, everybody likes a pat on the back, so I think 600 00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:38.840 that it's it's sort of a it's sort of an ego thing for everybody. 601 00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:44.320 I'm not even just saying the talent for for anybody to go on anything social 602 00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:47.679 media. I mean, I honestly don't care what you ate for lunch, 603 00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:52.679 but apparently people think that you do or you know, look, and I'm 604 00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:57.000 guilty of it. I'll go on there. I took a picture with Donald 605 00:39:57.039 --> 00:39:59.840 Trump at Rest Flemania. I put it on my Facebook or Instagram, and 606 00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:02.079 I I think it went on Twitter and my Facebook too, And you know 607 00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:07.000 what, does anybody care except I thought it was cool to tell people that 608 00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:09.239 I took a picture with Donald Trump. Yeah, you know, I put 609 00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:14.199 his hair. Did he mess it up? No? Did you mess up 610 00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:15.519 his hair? Like if I ever took a picture with him, I would 611 00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:19.840 just I would like to pretend I would find some excuse to mess with his 612 00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.239 hair and then have the picture taken. I don't know what would happen. 613 00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:23.960 I'd probably get like, you know, shot by one of his secrets, 614 00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:27.960 you know, security people. I was I was trying too hard to get 615 00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:30.599 on the Apprentice to one of them. Would you like to be on that 616 00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:35.039 show? Yeah, of course, I think it'd be cool. I think 617 00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:40.199 I mean, coming from the reality TV background and being able to establish characters 618 00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:44.760 and stuff like that, I think I could find my way finagling my way 619 00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:49.039 into the finals of that one quin Milton will go to Kylan, who I 620 00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:52.119 know was on hold um. I mentioned the sale for v a few minute 621 00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:54.280 ago. I gave the place to go pw Torch dot com slash go VIP. 622 00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:58.039 If you go to that page and you sign up for the monthly v 623 00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:01.039 IP option, the the coupon code to get half off through the end of 624 00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:09.480 today is lowercase sale number twenty nine lowercase ABC, so sale twenty nine ABC 625 00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:13.760 and that's our coupon code again that expires at the end of today. So 626 00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:16.320 if you want to get five dollars off half price for a full month of 627 00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:20.880 VIP, and here all five hours of John Permerney Torch Talk and access to 628 00:41:20.920 --> 00:41:22.679 the b at the after show. The previous times he's been on, along 629 00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:25.880 with that four and a half hour Scott holland Sean Waltman interview I talked about, 630 00:41:27.159 --> 00:41:30.039 and the Jake Roberts interview, and the Dixie Carter interview and Matt Hardy 631 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:32.920 and Dustin Rhodes and that's just naming some of them from this year. And 632 00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:37.239 the pre Christmas Paul Bear interview. It was a Friday before Christmas, the 633 00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:40.920 late Paul Bear. William Moody was on for a few hours and we did 634 00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:45.280 I think a grant told about seven hours with him in two different interviews on 635 00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:49.440 in December in August of last year. Some of the favorite interviews, based 636 00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:52.159 on feedback from listeners that I've ever done in twenty five years are Scott Hall 637 00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:58.719 and Paul Bear, and together it's like twelve hours of content, so definitely 638 00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:01.280 worth checking those up. All right, um, let's go to Kylan has 639 00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:05.840 been patiently on hold and get his question, and then on deck two one 640 00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:07.920 seven six oh one in seven seven three if you want to talk to John 641 00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:12.800 Fimarini x WWE creative team member in twenty nine and twenty ten. The number 642 00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:17.920 is six four six seven two one nine two weight. One way that you 643 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:22.800 can help us sustain our schedule of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by 644 00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:25.679 giving us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go to Apple podcast 645 00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:30.280 and look for our weight Killer Prosing podcast and Weight Killer Prosing post show and 646 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:32.840 give us a five star rating. We hope you think we've earned that score 647 00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.800 with our fast turnaround times and our quantity and quality of wrestling analysis throughout the 648 00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:42.119 week. So take a moment out for us and do us favor and give 649 00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:45.880 us a five star rating and Apple podcast that helps us on search returns and 650 00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:47.880 helps us grow. And if you want, you can add a few comments 651 00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:51.800 about what you like about the programs in the comments section. Thank you so 652 00:42:51.920 --> 00:43:00.599 much. Go ahead, Kyland, please go out at your question for John. 653 00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:15.000 I have to we just right. Crowds like that if they have to 654 00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:25.039 question number one. And being that you are big posters of pleas Jack Swaggers, 655 00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:37.679 I use disappointed by the lower the lower pushes they have received. Thanks 656 00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:40.719 Kylin, yep, appreciate it. Uh, John, we were getting some 657 00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:44.039 wind I think on your cell phone mic too, So if you if you 658 00:43:44.719 --> 00:43:46.280 sense winners, but put your thumb over the mouth piece when you're not talking, 659 00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:49.320 and then we'll build out here our guest a little bit better. If 660 00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:52.000 if if that's convenient for you. Um, yeah, the uh. I 661 00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:52.840 don't know if you got to two questions. I don't know if the listeners 662 00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:55.840 did, but I listened to real closely. UM Kylan want to know did 663 00:43:55.880 --> 00:43:58.760 you ever write? And this is a great question. I want to ask 664 00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:01.159 you this too. Did did you guys ever write specifically with the town you 665 00:44:01.239 --> 00:44:04.880 were in in mind? Did that ever affect your writing? And? Number 666 00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:07.440 two, your thoughts on what's been going on with Jack Swager? Um? 667 00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:13.360 Okay, the crowds um. To be perfectly honest, I didn't even remember 668 00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:15.440 where I was the week before, so for us to go back to another 669 00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:19.960 city, I wouldn't even have remembered what the crowds were doing. Um, 670 00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:22.639 something like last Monday. I think you're going to remember that. But UM, 671 00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:29.000 I think to an extense yes, um, but but nothing. UM, 672 00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:30.719 I mean you're caught. You want to be sure that you know. 673 00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:35.440 UM. I think that it would have been horrible to send out Triple H 674 00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:38.639 for a promo last Monday. Actually I would I would have paid. I 675 00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:42.639 would have paid money to see that. I would have actually just loved to 676 00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:45.440 have seene how we would have handled that situation. But you're right, if 677 00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:49.519 I was in a decision making position, um and had WWE's better interest in 678 00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:51.639 mine and hunters, yeah, that was a good choice not to put them 679 00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:53.760 out there. Yeah, so I think I think to an extent, yeah, 680 00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:59.760 it's done. And um And because honestly, I didn't necessarily know what 681 00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:04.320 how the crowds would react, even when we would go back two or three 682 00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:07.840 times somewhere. I don't know if that was something that was discussed without me 683 00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:10.639 around, But I was never told, you know, hey, I wouldn't 684 00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:15.519 do this in this city. A lot of times, you know, Sina 685 00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:20.800 would just sort of feel it out specifically for him because of his reactions. 686 00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:23.320 May very he would fill it out when he would see who was who was 687 00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:29.360 coming into the building or how they were reacting. But no, again, 688 00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:31.119 I could be wrong. I'm just telling you from my standpoint, I never 689 00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:36.679 wrote anything based on the town unless it was something significant where we were going 690 00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:40.679 to somebody's hometown or we knew it was enemy territory for somebody else. As 691 00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:46.400 far as Mizz and Swagger. I mean, I'm gonna say the same thing. 692 00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:50.280 Those were two guys I got behind when I was there. I still 693 00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:52.559 think that they could utilize both of them. I do not like miss as 694 00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:55.880 a baby face. I don't think it works. I think it can, 695 00:45:57.079 --> 00:46:00.880 but not in the way that they're doing it now. He comes across a 696 00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:05.920 little John Sena to me as a baby face in that you know, food 697 00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:10.719 jokes and um, it's his jokes aren't connecting with the audience, and I 698 00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:17.239 think he needs to be a little bit more of if he's gonna be the 699 00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:21.960 baby face, almost like a little bit more mature, where maybe the younger 700 00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:24.000 kids kind of still go, I don't know, it's the Miz, you 701 00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:29.880 know, and maybe they don't really get it. But the scene an overcrowd 702 00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:32.280 could could kind of really connect with him where he can be kind of that 703 00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:37.519 snarky sort of baby face that that has fillish tendencies because he is the Miz 704 00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:42.000 and he's gonna be an asshole, but you kind of like him now because 705 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:45.840 he's fighting on your side. I think Jack Swaggers put in a great position 706 00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:52.199 right now with that character. Um, I think that I will be Burt 707 00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:54.119 at the stake for this, but I don't think they should have put the 708 00:46:54.199 --> 00:46:58.639 title on Dolf Sigler, and I think that they could have really had something 709 00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:02.639 with a Swagger and del Rio, especially if they put the title on Swagger. 710 00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:08.599 Um. So yeah, I mean to answer the question, No, 711 00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:13.960 I don't like what they're doing with with either of them. I like what 712 00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:16.639 they're I like what they're attempting to do with Swagger, let's put it that 713 00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:21.800 way. I think it could be better and I'm not going to bring up 714 00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:23.639 the stake or for it, but I want you to expand on why you 715 00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:27.719 don't like that they put the title on Dolf. Was it a timing issue? 716 00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:34.559 Uh in or or what? Um? Hmm uh yeah, the timing 717 00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:37.440 number one, because um, I think that they had a good story with 718 00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:45.719 the with the world title that they could have told. Um I don't I 719 00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:51.079 again, I know I'm in the minority, but I don't think Dolf could 720 00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:55.519 sell pay per views, and I don't think Dolf has the ability to grab 721 00:47:55.599 --> 00:48:00.519 a microphone and really sell a match or make you hair. I think he 722 00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:04.159 does a great job in the ring with it, but I don't think that 723 00:48:04.280 --> 00:48:07.480 he can. I don't think he could get something like that over. You 724 00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:12.159 know, you're you're gonna now pay for a pay per view, not solely 725 00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:15.400 based on Dolf Ziggler selling it, but a big part of it is going 726 00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:20.519 to be that. And I just don't think he's that guy to be able 727 00:48:20.599 --> 00:48:24.679 to do that. And now, who who's he gonna who's he gonna face? 728 00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:28.800 Who have you built up for him to really have chased the title? 729 00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:32.039 Del Rio? I mean, I think del Rio had had a better dynamic, 730 00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:38.199 especially just with the story with Swagger. And you know, listen, 731 00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:42.159 if anyone knows it's the work, it's me. And I was sitting there 732 00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:49.800 front row at WrestleMania for Swagger del Rio, and honestly, that match felt 733 00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:53.159 legit when they were doing the ring introductions, it felt like I was there 734 00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:58.000 for a legit fight, just in the way that, you know, they 735 00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:00.320 told a story that really made you believe that these two don't like each other. 736 00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:06.119 And I don't know who Dolf has that could really that to make people 737 00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:10.000 care. I mean, unless they're turn him babyface, um, but I 738 00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:14.000 don't know. Maybe you can help me out. We care for him to 739 00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:19.119 really make some money with right now, I do know that, and I 740 00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:22.559 reported this in the first and Tortoons later this week that the Dolve Ziggler title 741 00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:27.199 change was not that was not in part of the plans until I think Monday 742 00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:30.079 and so, and that may have been to make good for Rocket. May 743 00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:34.360 have been based on some of the instant reaction to WrestleMania, with a lot 744 00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:37.800 of people thinking it was too corporate to establishments. They wanted to see at 745 00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:40.760 least one thing happened at Mania that that surprised them and went against the grain, 746 00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:45.519 and nothing did. Punk didn't win, Ziggler didn't win, Orton didn't 747 00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:47.519 turn. None of that stuff that people are kind of thinking might happen happen. 748 00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:51.280 So it may have been reaction to that, But I think they did 749 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:53.880 turn Ziggler with the idea being we'll figure out what we're going to do with 750 00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:58.480 that title and him him as champion afterwards, but we just need to do 751 00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:02.800 something to add a suppos Stressamania spark. But they've got Rybeck now looking like 752 00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.559 he's going to be tied up with Sena. To me, Rybak, Ziggler 753 00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:10.360 might have made some sense as a way for Ziggler to bump like crazy and 754 00:50:10.599 --> 00:50:13.679 try to help Raybeck become a star. But the problem is that is, 755 00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:16.679 then do you damage Rybeck by not having him solve the issue with the shield 756 00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:20.840 and then go and fight Ziggler and not win the world title, then he 757 00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:24.960 sort of starts becoming what heck what Hulk Hogan was when he first tried to 758 00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:29.119 beat Nipac Wiggle for the title. All these technicalities and all these things happened, 759 00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:32.360 and had Hogan not jumped to the WWF, that could have started working 760 00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:36.639 against Hogan's character. That's going way back in history, but it's happened a 761 00:50:36.679 --> 00:50:38.639 lot where a dominant baby face either need to go all the way with him 762 00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:43.760 or else he starts looking damaged. So if that's your best option and that 763 00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:45.159 the only way to make that work is to have Ziggler lose right away, 764 00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:49.519 then yeah, I'm against the title change too, So I am curious who 765 00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:52.079 they come up with that fans care enough about to match again. Ziggler. 766 00:50:52.639 --> 00:50:54.960 Well, I mean it's obvious that it's it's gonna be del Rio, and 767 00:50:55.119 --> 00:50:59.079 that's the problem with booking that way to go. Oops, you know, 768 00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:01.199 maybe we made him stake with Mania, Well you should have planned Mania better. 769 00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:06.159 It like you have to hot shot a title onto somebody just to say, 770 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:07.719 hey, we're gonna make up for you, know, you not being 771 00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:12.639 happier, us not really giving you anything eventful last night, or oh Rock 772 00:51:12.719 --> 00:51:17.280 didn't show up, so we're gonna change an entire game plan because somebody knows 773 00:51:17.320 --> 00:51:22.559 showed. I just think that's such a bad idea. Yeah, yeah, 774 00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:25.320 I agree. All right, Well, let's let's go back to the phone 775 00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:29.280 lines, and I do want to get the numbers out if you do want 776 00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:30.679 to get in line on the phone banks at six four, six, seven, 777 00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:34.800 two one nine eight two eight. I'm Wade Keller hosting today. I'll 778 00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:37.840 be back on Tuesday with Jason Pablo progressing dot Net. We're here five days 779 00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:42.039 a week and sometimes six on Sunday nights after big pay per views, but 780 00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:44.880 we're here Monday through Friday. Mondays, we're on live in the hour before 781 00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:46.760 raw, and then Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. We're on at 782 00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:52.280 four five thirty Eastern two thirty Pacific time. You can listen to the show's 783 00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:53.800 live. You can join in our chat room as we're on the air, 784 00:51:54.039 --> 00:51:57.679 and you can call our phone number in East, drop on the show on 785 00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:00.760 your phone, or log into the website pw torch livecast dot com and you 786 00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:05.960 can also listen on du lay at pw torch livecast dot com or subscribing to 787 00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:09.079 our RSS feed. You can listen to us by subscribing in iTunes or in 788 00:52:09.159 --> 00:52:13.639 the podcast app on iPhone or the Downcast app on iPhone, which we highly 789 00:52:13.639 --> 00:52:16.199 recommend a third party app that's great, and on Android, the Stitcher app 790 00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:21.840 works great for the free podcast and also beyond Pod is one of my favorite 791 00:52:21.880 --> 00:52:24.760 Android based podcast apps. So lots of ways to listen to us, and 792 00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:30.480 we appreciate you joining us today. Our guest is John Piermarini x WWW, 793 00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:32.840 writer on the Creative Team in two thousand and nine and two thousand and ten. 794 00:52:34.119 --> 00:52:36.480 Let's go back to the phone. Lines two one seven, six h 795 00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:39.039 one, seven seventy three and three four seven are the next four in line. 796 00:52:42.679 --> 00:52:46.000 Now you can subscribe to our VP podcast lineup within the Apple Podcast app 797 00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:51.920 using your Apple account that's new as of March twenty twenty two. Just search 798 00:52:52.039 --> 00:52:55.239 pw Torch in your Apple Podcast app and you'll see the pw Torch Dailycast logo 799 00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:59.000 show up. That's our free show that's been around forever, and also the 800 00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:02.079 Pwtrg v IP podcast logo. There is a free show every week, so 801 00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:05.800 subscribe you and if you don't, plan to go VIP and get a sample 802 00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:08.840 of our VIP tier programming. But if you click subscribe, then you'll become 803 00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:14.679 a VIP member instantly with a three day free trial, after which your Apple 804 00:53:14.679 --> 00:53:16.199 account will be charged, so you don't need to take out your credit card, 805 00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:19.599 debit card, or go anywhere else. If you listen to our free 806 00:53:19.639 --> 00:53:24.280 shows on Apple Podcasts, you are five seconds away from being a VP member 807 00:53:24.519 --> 00:53:28.480 with a three day free trial, So we invite you to check it out. 808 00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:31.079 That includes dozens of VP shows throughout the week, including VAP versions of 809 00:53:31.119 --> 00:53:35.760 The Weightkeller, Progressing post shows and podcasts, and daily cast. All those 810 00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:39.119 episodes are presented to VIP members with ads and plugs removed, along with v 811 00:53:39.159 --> 00:53:43.480 IP exclusives like our post pay per view roundtables, the Weight Keller Hotline, 812 00:53:43.639 --> 00:53:46.960 The Fix with Todd and Wade, Everything with Rich and Wade, and many 813 00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:58.679 other VP exclusive shows. Just search PW Torch within the Apple podcast app you 814 00:53:58.760 --> 00:54:01.440 want seven Please thus figure been where you're from the Hello this is Ryan from 815 00:54:01.519 --> 00:54:04.599 Chicago. Hey Ryan, thanks for Colin what have you got for us? 816 00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:07.480 Absolutely, I just wanted to start off by saying that I've been a long 817 00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:09.880 time member. I love the site. Um, definitely find value in it. 818 00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:17.119 So uh absolutely agreed with what Chris Testimony elset earlier. So absolutely her 819 00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:21.639 question, Um, you know, Steve Austin, I know obviously the dream 820 00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:24.920 match would be John Cina. I'm sorry, I see him Punk versus Austin 821 00:54:24.960 --> 00:54:29.159 at WrestleMania thirty. Um, what do you think would be the biggest money 822 00:54:29.239 --> 00:54:31.079 match for him? And if he did have when you think it could outdraw 823 00:54:31.559 --> 00:54:37.320 Roxina? What's the dream match for for Punk or for Austen for Austin? 824 00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:39.960 Oh, okay, yep, John, what do you think? I think 825 00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:44.679 it's Punk. I think Punk would have been a great h opponent for him 826 00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:49.199 even in the Attitude days. I think Punk and Austin could. I think 827 00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:52.119 here's the thing too, is you got to get two guys that that really 828 00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:55.199 want to sell the match too. And I think those are two guys that 829 00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:58.920 are going to go out there and go, look, I want this, 830 00:54:59.239 --> 00:55:00.960 you want this, and they're it's gonna show. And I think when it 831 00:55:01.039 --> 00:55:05.480 shows and it comes across that way, people are going to buy into it, 832 00:55:05.559 --> 00:55:10.719 and I think that Punk is the perfect guy for a match with Austin 833 00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:14.880 if he were to come back next year. UM, I don't think that 834 00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:21.760 there's UM. I don't see what they could do with Sina Austin other than 835 00:55:22.039 --> 00:55:24.159 say, hey, we're really gonna try to make Sena into the biggest star 836 00:55:24.199 --> 00:55:28.239 of all time, you know, And I don't see where. I don't 837 00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:32.400 see that really clicking. UM. But Austin Punk, I think could get 838 00:55:34.239 --> 00:55:37.079 a lot of people to care. And I think it could get a lot 839 00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:42.360 more eyeballs too, because I think that, Yeah, I think I think 840 00:55:42.559 --> 00:55:46.199 people would probably go back and go man, the Rock was cool and I 841 00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:52.400 loved following the Rock, but I think that Austin coming back would get I 842 00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:55.559 think a bigger audience in the sense that I think wrestling fans would go, 843 00:55:57.039 --> 00:56:01.320 Wow, Okay, this was my guy and he's coming back and at least 844 00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:04.280 give it a shot. And I think when they saw that, if they 845 00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:07.519 see the dynamic with him in Punk, I think they really kind of jumped 846 00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:12.599 back in and give WW that opportunity to grab some of those fans back. 847 00:56:12.880 --> 00:56:16.079 And I think Rock kind of did that, But I don't know. I 848 00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:22.719 think there's just a different appeal to Austin where I think Rock kind of could 849 00:56:22.760 --> 00:56:27.519 have brought in non wrestling fans. And I don't think non wrestling fans cared 850 00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:30.599 to watch Monday Night Raw on the build to WrestleMania, but maybe they check 851 00:56:30.639 --> 00:56:34.760 out WrestleMania, and I think they're not going to stay tuned from Monday Night 852 00:56:34.840 --> 00:56:37.400 Raw. I think you have the chance of bringing in wrestling fans with stone 853 00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:42.960 Cold that will watch the build to WrestleMania with Stone Cold and if you if 854 00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:46.199 you hook him, will stay. And I think Austin's been smart if he 855 00:56:46.280 --> 00:56:50.239 has any intent, even if it's just a ten or twenty or thirty percent 856 00:56:51.039 --> 00:56:52.760 idea of maybe coming back, because you know, he's I think he's made 857 00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:57.280 a nice niche for himself post wrestling with some of the things that he's doing. 858 00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:00.280 But if he does come back, and once I pick Payday and hey 859 00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:02.920 it's Rustlemania thirty, it's a one off and now that if Rock doesn't come 860 00:57:02.960 --> 00:57:06.280 back, and that's a big question mark. But if he isn't around for 861 00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:08.800 Mania thirty, then that gives Austin the spotlight to himself at Mania thirty. 862 00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:13.599 Then I think, you know, Austin. Obviously, he and Punk have 863 00:57:13.639 --> 00:57:17.119 a dynamic. I think that's the favorite match if you're to put money down. 864 00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:21.039 But you know what if del Ziggler catches Fire as a heel and they 865 00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:23.280 keep him heal and he holds a title or not for a long time. 866 00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:27.639 Ziggler is a guy who I think Austin would would look good against. I 867 00:57:27.679 --> 00:57:30.519 think, just like Punk, if Austin came back, he needed to be 868 00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:34.000 with somebody he trusted, who wouldn't hurt him, who would be able to 869 00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:36.400 bump for him and make him look good. And that's something that Ziggler could 870 00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:38.800 deliver. And then Johnet would also play in two Even more than seem Punk 871 00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:43.440 Wood, Austin could be in the position of making a star at a level 872 00:57:43.719 --> 00:57:46.599 several above even the Fon Dongo Jericho situation. At least, then you'd be 873 00:57:46.679 --> 00:57:51.760 taking somebody in his early thirties who's just getting started. Punk's already teased retirement. 874 00:57:51.800 --> 00:57:52.960 He's already teased He's not going to be one of those guys who wrestles 875 00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:55.960 still. Forty might be a leveraging move, it might work in his favor 876 00:57:57.079 --> 00:58:00.360 or against him, but Ziggler has not talked like that Ziggler is just um, 877 00:58:00.639 --> 00:58:04.039 you know, beginning. So what do you think of that? Yeah? 878 00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:08.119 Uh, two parts on that one. Um, I think when you 879 00:58:08.159 --> 00:58:13.400 bring someone in the caliber of stone cold Steve Austin, I think that you 880 00:58:15.400 --> 00:58:19.599 I think what you might run into by putting him against Ziggler is is almost 881 00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:25.840 showing the difference in in um what's the word almost in um in levels? 882 00:58:25.960 --> 00:58:30.039 I mean, I think that I think it would make Dolph Ziggler, I 883 00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:34.880 don't think he can hang with with Austin. Maybe in the ring, but 884 00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:38.960 I don't think that if you had to build to WrestleMania with Ziggler and Austin, 885 00:58:39.320 --> 00:58:43.800 I think he's gonna drown in there in the ring with with microphones. 886 00:58:44.199 --> 00:58:46.440 And uh, you know, to the point that we just talked about earlier 887 00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:52.280 is WrestleMania is not about that anymore. It's about getting the biggest buy rate. 888 00:58:52.639 --> 00:58:55.639 And I think that even there might be a chance that they might not 889 00:58:55.719 --> 00:59:00.320 even see Pump being able to do that with Austin unless Austin can then and 890 00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:06.159 said, I walk punk at WrestleMania. But I think said, if you 891 00:59:06.199 --> 00:59:09.360 want to bring Austin in and get Ziggler over, fine, I'm going to 892 00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:13.719 make a prediction and say that I don't think by the time that came around 893 00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:16.880 that Ziggler is going to be at that level. I think that, again, 894 00:59:17.159 --> 00:59:23.280 there's certain guys for certain spots, and I've failed to see Ziggler take 895 00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:25.960 that next step. And I was a big fan of Ziggler while I was 896 00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:29.679 there, I was a big fan of him after I left, and I 897 00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:34.840 just did not see him turn that corner again. I know everyone has fine, 898 00:59:35.480 --> 00:59:38.480 everyone's entitled to their opinion. I might be wrong, but that's just 899 00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:43.920 the way I see it. If you sensed did you sense anything from being 900 00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:49.599 a round wrestle any over the weekend that there's any trepidation about pushing Ziggler or 901 00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:52.559 were you kind of the would your what you just said stand out as different 902 00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:55.280 than most people, or do you think there's a mix of opinions of him, 903 00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:59.840 again based on the limited people that you were around. If I said 904 01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:04.599 exact thing in a production meeting, I don't think that people would look at 905 01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:07.760 me like I'm crazy. I think that I honestly think the room would probably 906 01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:12.280 part size, and I think that you'd have one side of the room going 907 01:00:12.679 --> 01:00:15.480 yes, I agree and blah, blah blah BLAT's let's not go that route, 908 01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:20.119 and I think you'd have half of the other room saying the same thing. 909 01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:23.239 That's pure speculation. I have no idea what anybody has said in the 910 01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:30.639 last since I've been there, so I could say that just the way that 911 01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:36.119 I've seen Ziggler book, my assumption is that there is probably budding heads back 912 01:00:36.159 --> 01:00:38.039 there. Yeah, yeah, very good, Ryan, you're still on with 913 01:00:38.119 --> 01:00:40.559 us. Do you have any follow up or another question? No, I 914 01:00:40.599 --> 01:00:44.000 don't. Thanks a lot for taking my call and keep up a great work 915 01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:47.000 weight great thanks right, appreciate it. Support us on Patreon starting at four 916 01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:52.000 dollars and ninety nine cents get these shows, add free and bonus VIIP content. 917 01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.000 That's four dollars and ninety nine cents on Patreon, Patreon dot com, 918 01:00:55.199 --> 01:01:00.760 slash pw Tworge vi i P that's Patreon dot com slash PW Torch vi IP. 919 01:01:01.239 --> 01:01:05.800 That is the quickest, cheapest and easiest way to support us and enjoy 920 01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:09.760 these shows with a streamlined listening experience. The wait Keller post shows, podcasts, 921 01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:17.440 and the PW Torch daily casts plus some random VIP bonus content. Thanks 922 01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:21.079 for listening to our podcast. Did you know we also have a website, 923 01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:25.599 pwtorch dot com daily news updates, editorials, and my live TV coverage covering 924 01:01:25.719 --> 01:01:30.320 Row, Dynamite and SmackDown and my live pay per view coverage for ww E 925 01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:34.639 and a EW. Create a tab or bookmark make it a daily stop. 926 01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:37.159 Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up on breaking news and more. 927 01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:46.760 That's pwtorch dot com. All right, let's go next two US six 928 01:01:46.760 --> 01:01:49.719 to one and then as I said, seven seven, three and three four 929 01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:52.400 seven on deck six or one ply stage to name and where you're from? 930 01:01:54.519 --> 01:01:58.159 Chet doing to day? I doing good, scab? What have you got 931 01:01:58.199 --> 01:02:00.599 for us today? And John? I want to ask you this question I 932 01:02:00.679 --> 01:02:04.599 heard I just got on Can't League and I got fits the pizzas. Now 933 01:02:04.800 --> 01:02:07.599 put this as a dream match you and I was asking other questions. How 934 01:02:07.639 --> 01:02:12.320 would you feel about seeing them Pump taking on the rock that restum Maya the 935 01:02:12.519 --> 01:02:15.639 way the rock? Would you know put over seam Pump to you know, 936 01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:22.159 get him shot instead of John Tanner because like you said, Russell may was 937 01:02:22.199 --> 01:02:25.559 nothing more just to me just seem I mean John Sinner and Triple AI show. 938 01:02:27.159 --> 01:02:30.960 And also would the result of rustle Man, What would you have done 939 01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:34.000 different? Do you know, make a better rest Man? That's all I 940 01:02:34.039 --> 01:02:37.280 happen today? And Kevin before you go, you know that Pump took on 941 01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:39.599 Rock at the previous two pay per views before Mania, and you're asking should 942 01:02:39.599 --> 01:02:44.199 they have a third match at Mania next year? No, I'm somebo but 943 01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:46.119 his pains restum maya went now. I mean they should have stretched out a 944 01:02:46.119 --> 01:02:51.639 little biting. Yeah, and you know they would argue about, you know, 945 01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:55.639 seeing Pump putting the title against h Okay Shriek versus Tyler against the US 946 01:02:55.760 --> 01:02:59.400 here at his game? Fair enough? Yep, no, no, no, 947 01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:00.960 I'm glad or yeah? So John, would you have been in favor 948 01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:05.119 of rock Punk at Mania this year instead of Punk Undertaker? And then I 949 01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:07.719 think you want to know what you have done differently in terms of finishes? 950 01:03:07.719 --> 01:03:12.280 Um? Okay, So I guess I think it would have been in an 951 01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:17.360 improvement to do um rock Sena or I'm sorry rock prom at Mania. But 952 01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:23.559 I think that even the bigger story would have been to h to have um 953 01:03:24.639 --> 01:03:28.880 you know, Sina, what I would have done has probably done this and 954 01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:30.880 this is off top of my head, so so it might be a little 955 01:03:30.920 --> 01:03:36.800 chopp here. But if you if you put the Royal Rumble on before Rock 956 01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:40.320 Punk and you have someone else go over in it, uh and seen it 957 01:03:40.840 --> 01:03:44.239 not so much getting screwed out of it, but maybe you know, he 958 01:03:44.360 --> 01:03:46.880 eliminates somebody and then that person kind of pulls him over because he's pissed off. 959 01:03:46.920 --> 01:03:51.320 So Sina probably could have had it. But someone else goes over in 960 01:03:51.360 --> 01:03:55.199 the Royal Rumble again in building someone give that to Swagger. Um. I 961 01:03:55.280 --> 01:03:59.639 don't know if he was back yet though, so no he wasn't, but 962 01:04:00.119 --> 01:04:05.320 regardless whoever it is. And then um, you have you know, you 963 01:04:05.440 --> 01:04:13.400 tell this redemption story with Sena and Rock and you have you have Sina cost 964 01:04:13.559 --> 01:04:16.440 Rock the ww title, and you don't even need any of that if you 965 01:04:16.519 --> 01:04:21.039 have some way where Punk can go over Rock um at Royal Rumble. Um. 966 01:04:24.039 --> 01:04:26.119 I don't know how you would do it, you know, maybe shield 967 01:04:26.199 --> 01:04:30.079 something. Um, that's something you'd have to think out to not take away 968 01:04:30.159 --> 01:04:32.880 from going Rock Sina Mania again. But I think if you would have done 969 01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:38.119 that, and you would have had Punk somehow escape with the WWE title and 970 01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:45.360 then you go to Mania with his WWE title streak versus Undertakers WrestleMania streak. 971 01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:48.440 I think that could have been huge. I would have been at that point 972 01:04:48.519 --> 01:04:53.920 put Punk over at WrestleMania m And then you have this guy where okay, 973 01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:57.800 look, let's say Punk says I'm retiring in five years. But my god, 974 01:04:57.880 --> 01:05:00.559 the money that you can make for five years with Punk running around saying 975 01:05:00.920 --> 01:05:04.480 I beat the Rock, I beat Sena, I ended the Undertaker's street. 976 01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:08.280 I told you I'm the greatest of all time. I'm gonna hold onto this 977 01:05:08.400 --> 01:05:12.199 thing for four thousand, five thousand days. Try taking it off. I 978 01:05:12.239 --> 01:05:15.559 mean maybe at that point you have to align him with the shield so you 979 01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:18.599 can sort of really get that across. And then you got the four instead 980 01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:24.800 of the free birds. There was in the sense that you have the world 981 01:05:24.920 --> 01:05:28.440 champion who stands above with the other three. But you have the option to, 982 01:05:28.599 --> 01:05:30.639 you know, eventually have those some of those three few with Punk down 983 01:05:30.679 --> 01:05:33.440 the line. But then here we go. But then think of it like 984 01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:38.199 this too. Wave is now you want to go, Okay, WrestleMania thirty, 985 01:05:38.679 --> 01:05:41.119 that's the day you want to make your money. Well, how much 986 01:05:41.199 --> 01:05:45.119 bigger now can you get? If it's Punk stone Cold and I'm not even 987 01:05:45.159 --> 01:05:47.760 saying Punk has to hold grit until then, But why couldn't he You know, 988 01:05:47.840 --> 01:05:51.239 I mean, who do you have that could really run with the title 989 01:05:51.360 --> 01:05:55.800 right now? The other I mean, the other option if Austin's not available 990 01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:57.679 to play that scenario out. And I know, John, a lot of 991 01:05:57.719 --> 01:06:00.800 people wanted that, a lot of people thought in that, and there's still 992 01:06:00.840 --> 01:06:02.960 resentment Sunday when it came to Fruition on Sunday with a lot of fans, 993 01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:08.280 they watched that event. It felt corporate predictable, And yes, I think 994 01:06:08.320 --> 01:06:11.119 they probably went with a lineup that would draw the most money on Sunday, 995 01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:14.480 But did they go with a lineup that would draw the most money for them 996 01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:16.599 with residuals for the next couple of years, And a lot of people made 997 01:06:16.599 --> 01:06:21.400 that argument. Seem Punk will pay dividends if you if you sacrifice the matches 998 01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:26.039 you plan this year, keep the title on Punk and do exactly what you're 999 01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:29.320 saying. If Austin's not available you maybe you have the option then to turn 1000 01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:32.960 Brock baby face next year and have Brock breakaway from Hayman and be the guy 1001 01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:35.800 who can finally stop Punk. And maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. 1002 01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:39.800 But that's a WrestleMania thirty made event also, and then maybe you get something 1003 01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:42.639 more out of Brock than you know that the heel who you know, just 1004 01:06:42.840 --> 01:06:45.519 that he's been so far right, But how long has it been since you've 1005 01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:50.320 had someone basically holding the company hostage as far as who is going to step 1006 01:06:50.440 --> 01:06:54.920 up? And now now you've got someone, like you said, whether it's 1007 01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:58.119 WrestleMania thirty, I mean, what if what if you somehow can keep right 1008 01:06:58.199 --> 01:07:02.800 back away from them too, and you have this guy who finally takes the 1009 01:07:02.880 --> 01:07:08.239 title back, you know, and you now not only have the biggest heal 1010 01:07:08.360 --> 01:07:12.400 maybe ever in your company and cmplung, but now you've built somebody to be 1011 01:07:12.679 --> 01:07:15.440 d next John seen up, the next row, the next Stocal. I 1012 01:07:15.519 --> 01:07:19.679 mean, there's ways to make money today that still holds you big money tomorrow. 1013 01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:24.920 And you know, I don't know why it's it's not being utilized that 1014 01:07:25.039 --> 01:07:29.239 And again it could come down to somebody is saying I don't want Tom to 1015 01:07:29.280 --> 01:07:31.079 be that guy. And if that's the case, you can't fight it. 1016 01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:35.519 But you know, it all comes down to your own business to make money, 1017 01:07:35.800 --> 01:07:39.519 whether you you know, if you run Coca Cola, but you don't 1018 01:07:39.599 --> 01:07:42.320 drink it. It doesn't matter. You don't bury Coca cola, you don't 1019 01:07:42.320 --> 01:07:45.239 put out commercials that make Coca cola a little bad. You still want to 1020 01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:48.280 make a billion dollars that year, So why not? Do you? Did 1021 01:07:48.320 --> 01:07:53.239 you sense that bensct Man was ever open to having a lead heel on raw 1022 01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:57.480 be the champion. I mean because densc Man's formula he grew up with, 1023 01:07:57.559 --> 01:08:00.639 you know, he grew up with Bruno Sammartino and then Bob Ackland and then 1024 01:08:00.719 --> 01:08:02.960 came a hulk Coogan, and then his instincts after Hogan left us go to 1025 01:08:03.039 --> 01:08:08.239 Brett Hart or Lex Luger, and then after that first chance he got Sean 1026 01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:10.920 Michaels was sometimes a heels, sometimes a face's champion, but then it was 1027 01:08:10.960 --> 01:08:14.360 stone cold and the rock oftentimes is a baby face. And then as soon 1028 01:08:14.440 --> 01:08:16.520 as he could find someone in John Cena, he went with him. And 1029 01:08:16.600 --> 01:08:19.439 a lot of the time Triple h and Kurt Engel were baby faces in that 1030 01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:23.840 mix too. Vince likes to build around baby faces and the heels are there 1031 01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:28.319 to get knocked over like bowling pins. Would he go all out or does 1032 01:08:28.359 --> 01:08:32.119 it go too much against his instincts and philosophy to actually have the dominant centerpiece 1033 01:08:32.239 --> 01:08:38.279 be a long term heel champion. What I think happened is he shut goals 1034 01:08:38.560 --> 01:08:45.439 with Hulk Coogan and he really put WWF on the map. And I think 1035 01:08:45.520 --> 01:08:48.399 that when he left, and I think even while he was there, you 1036 01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:51.359 know, when you know his time is running out, I think they wanted 1037 01:08:51.399 --> 01:08:58.479 to find who can we recreate this with that can match what Hulk Hogan did. 1038 01:08:58.560 --> 01:09:01.520 And I think that's why you you saw guys like Lex Luger be given 1039 01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:05.880 the shot or I think even they might have even it looks like experimented with 1040 01:09:06.119 --> 01:09:11.319 with Sid being that guy or um, you know, and and then I 1041 01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:14.880 think what they went to was, Okay, well what do we have now? 1042 01:09:14.960 --> 01:09:17.119 Okay, well Sid didn't work out, Lex Luger didn't work out, 1043 01:09:17.199 --> 01:09:21.039 Hogan's gone, Um, We've got Sean and Brett. And I think that 1044 01:09:21.239 --> 01:09:26.319 they saw Brett as someone that could be that could really draw overseas, which 1045 01:09:26.520 --> 01:09:30.800 he did, and I think that then eventually it turned into who here can 1046 01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:34.319 can I strust? Who here? I have a I have a locker room 1047 01:09:34.359 --> 01:09:38.520 full of guys that I don't know if any of them can really be a 1048 01:09:38.560 --> 01:09:41.840 star solists, who's the one guy that I think can Okay, if Sean 1049 01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:44.479 Michael, then let's put it on him and run with him. And you 1050 01:09:44.560 --> 01:09:46.720 know, I know he's a huge star, um, but you know, 1051 01:09:46.840 --> 01:09:51.600 I don't think he really did great business. Um and uh, I think 1052 01:09:51.720 --> 01:09:57.640 that one should become at that point, he became so used to going Okay, 1053 01:09:57.680 --> 01:10:00.159 I gotta fight in the next baby's face, I got a next the 1054 01:10:00.239 --> 01:10:03.079 next face to the company that that's what it became was let's just do what 1055 01:10:03.199 --> 01:10:08.239 we can to make this guy and use these heels to make you know, 1056 01:10:08.520 --> 01:10:12.720 the defically what John Cena ended up becoming. But I think that what they 1057 01:10:12.840 --> 01:10:16.520 need to do, it's kind of reset and build up these heels, whether 1058 01:10:16.600 --> 01:10:20.640 it's one, two, three guys, and then build your baby face through 1059 01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:26.640 these top heels. Because again, you walk into Batman and if he beats 1060 01:10:26.720 --> 01:10:30.680 up the Joker in the first five minutes, why am I wasting another hour 1061 01:10:30.760 --> 01:10:32.880 and fifty five to see if he's going to beat up the Joker in the 1062 01:10:33.039 --> 01:10:35.720 end. I know he's going to do it. And I think that if 1063 01:10:35.800 --> 01:10:41.560 you've build CM pump and you build for the sake of argument, you have 1064 01:10:41.720 --> 01:10:45.079 a pump. You've got right back m heels, and then you have right 1065 01:10:45.119 --> 01:10:47.199 back and you have let's say Dulf Tabler, and you build these guys as 1066 01:10:47.239 --> 01:10:51.279 just monster heels, and then you build a baby face out of defeating those 1067 01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:56.279 guys. I think you could recreate something, you know. I don't know 1068 01:10:56.359 --> 01:11:00.279 if you could ever recreate Stone Cold Rocker or whole COGD. I think actually 1069 01:11:00.279 --> 01:11:03.520 just going to happen on it. Don't but you don't have anybody, if 1070 01:11:03.560 --> 01:11:08.840 you don't have someone for them to de see. Yeah, yeah, John, 1071 01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:12.199 your reception got a little bit worse in your last answer than it had 1072 01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:14.000 been. I don't know if you did anything different, but if you can 1073 01:11:14.159 --> 01:11:16.760 switch back to it was a little bit clear before, but but we could 1074 01:11:16.760 --> 01:11:20.960 still hear it just was an ideal. Let's let's let's jump to a seven 1075 01:11:21.079 --> 01:11:25.800 seven three next and then three four seven, and then we'll probably shift from 1076 01:11:25.840 --> 01:11:28.840 there to one email question on the free show, and then we'll shift to 1077 01:11:29.039 --> 01:11:30.920 the VP after show and take some more email questions. And I got a 1078 01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:41.520 couple notes written done too. In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental 1079 01:11:41.600 --> 01:11:46.399 system and ultimately the brand you see today on the Torch VIP Podcast NXT eight 1080 01:11:46.520 --> 01:11:50.960 years Back. We'll be taking a weekly look at this page in NXT's early 1081 01:11:51.079 --> 01:11:57.920 history. Join Ellie Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday 1082 01:11:58.000 --> 01:12:00.720 as we go eight years back to the day to track nxts rising talents and 1083 01:12:00.840 --> 01:12:05.039 why they did or didn't work out, exclusively for PW tors VIP members. 1084 01:12:12.199 --> 01:12:15.079 Uh seven seventy three, I please stay your name and where you're from from? 1085 01:12:15.760 --> 01:12:20.199 Hey, boris what have you got for John Field? Are they? 1086 01:12:20.359 --> 01:12:24.520 I think they're throwing us a bone with um putting, you know, doing 1087 01:12:24.760 --> 01:12:28.960 you know, with no character build. They're using Undertaker, which is surprising 1088 01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:31.039 to me. I want to see him, you know. But you know, 1089 01:12:31.399 --> 01:12:35.920 I know they're not gonna they're gonna protect Undertaker if she'll get passed. 1090 01:12:36.920 --> 01:12:43.479 UM undertaking him? Who do they who put him against next? You know, 1091 01:12:43.479 --> 01:12:45.239 because they don't know how to long term book. Who they put them 1092 01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:49.680 up against next? Without ruining the Shield for lack of talent? Sure? 1093 01:12:49.760 --> 01:12:53.640 Thanks for us, Yeah, it's it's interesting. On Monday's Rage on that 1094 01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:58.439 Undertaker, Kane and Daniel Bryan lined up against the Shield indicating Undertaker, whoever 1095 01:12:58.560 --> 01:13:00.520 you know we're all thinking, well he even wrestle WrestleMania. Um, you 1096 01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:02.760 know, is he too her too beat up? Is he ready to to 1097 01:13:03.279 --> 01:13:08.439 to you know, retire? Now he shows up the next day and does 1098 01:13:08.479 --> 01:13:10.920 an angle that sets up a match that people are gonna want to see now, 1099 01:13:11.359 --> 01:13:14.239 Um, which is Taker, Kane and Brian against the Shield. How 1100 01:13:14.279 --> 01:13:15.600 do you book that? And how does the Shield survive that? And then 1101 01:13:15.760 --> 01:13:23.199 what's next form I I don't think you can book that. I mean, 1102 01:13:23.439 --> 01:13:27.520 I think it's just get it's cutting closer and closer and closer to Mania every 1103 01:13:27.600 --> 01:13:31.439 year for Undertaker to uh to to be able to do it, and I 1104 01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:36.439 think you'd be wasting. Um what Undertaker is there for at this point? 1105 01:13:36.600 --> 01:13:41.319 Now, Um, unless you're going all in on the Shield, you know, 1106 01:13:41.439 --> 01:13:45.600 unless it's unless you'd put the Shield over. But um, I think 1107 01:13:45.760 --> 01:13:51.039 Sane and Brian are people that can job in that match and not sacrifice the 1108 01:13:51.119 --> 01:13:56.920 Undertaker, And then you can also um, you know, set up you 1109 01:13:56.960 --> 01:13:59.520 could There's a number of things you can do with it. With I think 1110 01:13:59.560 --> 01:14:01.199 it's the you can do to protect Taker but still have the Shield come out 1111 01:14:01.279 --> 01:14:05.760 dominant. Yeah, I think you could do something to get the Shield over 1112 01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:09.680 in the sense that they take out the Undertaker, whether it's in the match 1113 01:14:09.880 --> 01:14:14.680 before the matcher, whenever it is, and then you have Brian or Kine 1114 01:14:14.840 --> 01:14:17.600 do the job, and then you've got shield looking great because they can they 1115 01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:23.560 took out the Undertaker, but I wouldn't waste the Undertaker there, keep them 1116 01:14:23.600 --> 01:14:30.399 in the WrestleMania, you know, attraction and and build to again one of 1117 01:14:30.439 --> 01:14:33.399 the last remaining huge draws that they have. I mean, if you went 1118 01:14:33.520 --> 01:14:39.560 next year and you went CM punk Stone Cold, Undertaker Sina again, it 1119 01:14:39.680 --> 01:14:44.239 goes against my philosophy of using those guys to put someone over. But when 1120 01:14:44.279 --> 01:14:46.399 you have one last chance, it's something you've got to do it. So 1121 01:14:46.520 --> 01:14:51.239 I think that's the exception to the rule. And you know, and then 1122 01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:56.399 maybe it kills me to say this, but maybe you haven't seen it in 1123 01:14:56.520 --> 01:15:00.880 the street. I'm not sure that it helps John Cena to end the streak 1124 01:15:01.520 --> 01:15:04.920 at this point in his career, and I know some people will will think 1125 01:15:05.000 --> 01:15:09.760 that, but I don't know that now is the right time. If seen 1126 01:15:09.800 --> 01:15:11.960 as the right guy, I don't know that he would benefit from it at 1127 01:15:11.960 --> 01:15:15.239 all. It depends on how much time you have left with Sena. If 1128 01:15:15.279 --> 01:15:18.159 you have seen a turn heel to end the street, I think you've got 1129 01:15:18.199 --> 01:15:21.920 yourself a massive heel. You have to have him turn heel at WrestleMania in 1130 01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:26.039 the match. And you know, and if you have again two three years 1131 01:15:26.119 --> 01:15:29.119 left in Sena again, that's two or three years, you can make a 1132 01:15:29.199 --> 01:15:32.880 lot of money. You've invested so much in this streak that it would almost 1133 01:15:33.119 --> 01:15:36.920 not be worth it to not get your money out of it. You know, 1134 01:15:38.079 --> 01:15:41.760 you have undertake How many DVDs can you put out a Undertaker in the 1135 01:15:41.880 --> 01:15:45.079 streak? They've probably let in two or three by now when he's not there 1136 01:15:45.119 --> 01:15:47.640 anymore. What does it mean? Yeah? Yeah, all right, Well 1137 01:15:47.720 --> 01:15:51.479 let's go next to three four seven and see three four seven. I say, 1138 01:15:51.479 --> 01:15:57.800 please state your name and where you're from? Three four seven? All 1139 01:15:57.880 --> 01:16:01.119 right? With last three four seven? Instead, we'll go to two eight 1140 01:16:01.239 --> 01:16:05.600 one two A one, Please stay tr naming where you're from? Hell, 1141 01:16:05.760 --> 01:16:08.840 guys, A chat out of Houston. How you are doing? I doing 1142 01:16:08.920 --> 01:16:11.399 good? Jay? Thanks for Colin. What have you got for John today? 1143 01:16:13.439 --> 01:16:16.359 Well, John, there's not much I really agree with you on as 1144 01:16:16.439 --> 01:16:21.159 far as a wrestling psychology, but I do agree with you with the whole 1145 01:16:21.239 --> 01:16:26.279 thing about Dolph Ziegler. You know, he's very good in the ring, 1146 01:16:26.479 --> 01:16:30.960 but like you were saying about his puma ability, I'd never get the feeling 1147 01:16:30.039 --> 01:16:33.680 that he's like in a fight. He doesn't really talk about things like a 1148 01:16:33.880 --> 01:16:41.039 fight. He's more of the Chris Jericho type to me. But my question 1149 01:16:41.680 --> 01:16:48.479 from my question was actually about um drawing a blank. It was actually about 1150 01:16:48.920 --> 01:16:54.279 I'm sorry, ending the Undertaker street. Um. I know a lot of 1151 01:16:54.359 --> 01:16:57.399 times you talked about having the miss ended or having to him punk in it. 1152 01:16:58.159 --> 01:17:01.439 I kind of see it like when the New England Patriots a few years 1153 01:17:01.439 --> 01:17:05.680 ago had that undefeated season and then they rosted at the Super Bowl. You 1154 01:17:05.760 --> 01:17:09.399 know, no one talked about it anymore. It wasn't a special anymore. 1155 01:17:09.760 --> 01:17:12.920 Don't you think if they ended the Undertaker streak that it would do a lot 1156 01:17:13.000 --> 01:17:18.439 of damage to the brand that they built up? Yeah? I agree, 1157 01:17:18.520 --> 01:17:28.039 But when when Undertaker's no longer there to build up? Well, and you 1158 01:17:28.119 --> 01:17:30.960 know, John, I'm on the side of saying, never end the streak 1159 01:17:30.079 --> 01:17:33.039 unless somebody would really benefit from it. You know, I like, I 1160 01:17:33.119 --> 01:17:35.199 agree with what you're saying that if you have it, why not use it? 1161 01:17:35.279 --> 01:17:39.920 But if using it doesn't actually do any good. Um, I think 1162 01:17:40.159 --> 01:17:45.079 you end up protecting then then you just I don't know. There's something about 1163 01:17:45.439 --> 01:17:50.079 Undertaker retiring with the Streak intact that says something that says to the fans something 1164 01:17:50.199 --> 01:17:57.000 WWE rarely does, which is we care. We did something that didn't necessarily 1165 01:17:57.119 --> 01:18:00.319 quote draw money because it felt like the thing to do for the legacy, 1166 01:18:00.760 --> 01:18:04.760 and it's just something sacred that fans can appreciate that w w E didn't just 1167 01:18:04.920 --> 01:18:09.079 feel the need to end just for the sake of ending it once we knew 1168 01:18:09.119 --> 01:18:11.399 Taker was going to be done. That's kind of where I fall on it, 1169 01:18:11.560 --> 01:18:14.800 unless that right guy comes along where it can make a star. But 1170 01:18:14.920 --> 01:18:17.119 I just don't think seen a benefit. So I think if the fall else 1171 01:18:17.199 --> 01:18:19.920 is equal, just let's take a retire with the Streak, because I don't 1172 01:18:19.960 --> 01:18:26.199 see Sina benefiting in a Frostomania thirty as Takers last match. I think Sina 1173 01:18:26.359 --> 01:18:30.560 gets himself more over by from because fans kind of know how wrestling works to 1174 01:18:30.720 --> 01:18:33.119 some degree. I think Sena gets himself over by not using this political cloud 1175 01:18:33.159 --> 01:18:38.159 to push for a win. Number one. I wouldn't even say that it 1176 01:18:38.199 --> 01:18:41.840 would be a political move to say put me over on the Undertaker. But 1177 01:18:42.119 --> 01:18:44.680 I mean again, let me kind of use it as an analogy. And 1178 01:18:45.000 --> 01:18:47.680 this one maybe not not not makes sense to a lot of people. But 1179 01:18:48.319 --> 01:18:53.680 let's say you using the Coca cola thing. Let's say you run diet coke 1180 01:18:53.960 --> 01:18:57.399 okay, and you go listen, it's the right thing to do for us 1181 01:18:57.439 --> 01:19:00.359 to come out and go, guys, you drink enough to coke, it's 1182 01:19:00.399 --> 01:19:03.960 gonna kill you. That's just the right thing to do. Guys. So 1183 01:19:04.640 --> 01:19:10.960 you know what, that may cost us five hundred million dollars this year, 1184 01:19:11.119 --> 01:19:14.039 but if god damn it, that's the right thing to do. You're talking 1185 01:19:14.119 --> 01:19:17.199 to a guy who was put in a position to say number one, help 1186 01:19:17.279 --> 01:19:21.279 me make money today and help me make money tomorrow. Why would I want 1187 01:19:21.319 --> 01:19:25.560 to tell a story that I go, hey, you know what, man, 1188 01:19:25.640 --> 01:19:30.199 it'll sure put a smile on people's faces that Undertaker didn't lose the streak. 1189 01:19:30.439 --> 01:19:33.600 I do agree you should not lose the streak just to lose the streak. 1190 01:19:33.960 --> 01:19:38.439 But I feel like if there's money to be made or a star to 1191 01:19:38.560 --> 01:19:42.119 be made out of it, I think you have to do it right. 1192 01:19:43.039 --> 01:19:45.159 And that's a question. Is that is will that guy present himself If if 1193 01:19:45.239 --> 01:19:48.359 Vince McManis thinking seen a Taker next year, if that's where they're headed, 1194 01:19:48.840 --> 01:19:54.960 does take Er stick around one more year and not look like himself perhaps not 1195 01:19:55.239 --> 01:19:58.479 be into it, because if he was going to retire anyway and retire with 1196 01:19:58.520 --> 01:20:00.760 the streak, I don't think that's selfish a him. I would say that 1197 01:20:00.880 --> 01:20:03.279 to not. I don't think it would be considered selfish to not come back 1198 01:20:03.359 --> 01:20:06.479 one year later if he doesn't feel up for it physically, just to pass 1199 01:20:06.520 --> 01:20:12.479 a torch to somebody who isn't ready. But if Taker's motivated and it really 1200 01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:15.520 likes somebody who's coming up the roster and thinks will let's just say Wade Barrett 1201 01:20:15.520 --> 01:20:18.039 for instance, or Jack Swagger, one of those two guys just has a 1202 01:20:18.159 --> 01:20:25.359 breakout next fifteen sixteen, seventeen months and Taker beats Cina at Wrestomania and the 1203 01:20:25.439 --> 01:20:29.880 crowd goes nuts intow Orleans and they hug and it's just feel good Rstomania moment. 1204 01:20:29.920 --> 01:20:32.159 Whatever the streak is alive, people think Taker's retiring. But if a 1205 01:20:32.279 --> 01:20:38.359 Swagger or Barrett, or if one of the Shield members breaks out and you 1206 01:20:38.439 --> 01:20:41.279 can do so whatever, then Taker goes. You know what I do want 1207 01:20:41.319 --> 01:20:44.199 to I think I can make a lot of money for this company and myself 1208 01:20:44.600 --> 01:20:48.039 and my opponent. Let's take this guy and let's appro Trustsomania, with the 1209 01:20:48.119 --> 01:20:51.239 idea being that if he still has this kind of momentum, I will lose 1210 01:20:51.279 --> 01:20:54.800 to this guy because I respect him that much and he's the right guy to 1211 01:20:54.920 --> 01:20:57.359 do it. You can almost have an Austin Brett moment, you know, 1212 01:20:57.439 --> 01:21:00.159 where it felt like a passing of the torch. So if that circumstance presented 1213 01:21:00.199 --> 01:21:03.319 itself and Mark Callaway feels like he can do it and he's very up for 1214 01:21:03.399 --> 01:21:06.279 it, then I'm for ending the streak. But if at WrestleMania thirty it's 1215 01:21:06.279 --> 01:21:12.680 a Taker Sena, I just think Taker wins and and and then Taker retires 1216 01:21:12.680 --> 01:21:16.319 because I don't see that being worse for business than seen a winning. Well, 1217 01:21:16.399 --> 01:21:19.640 then if you have seen a leaving in the in the next year too, 1218 01:21:19.800 --> 01:21:24.359 I agree. You know, if you're if you're going to get six 1219 01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:28.960 matches out of Sina being able to say he beat the streak, I agree 1220 01:21:29.000 --> 01:21:34.720 one hundred percent. I don't think Undertaker at any time is protecting his streak. 1221 01:21:35.279 --> 01:21:39.560 I think that he's smart enough to know that it could help somebody. 1222 01:21:39.600 --> 01:21:45.039 And I think that you can tell that he is going out there year after 1223 01:21:45.239 --> 01:21:49.159 year when he probably shouldn't because he respects the business so much, because he 1224 01:21:49.239 --> 01:21:53.800 wants to do what's right for the company. And I and I think that 1225 01:21:53.920 --> 01:21:56.920 if they went to him and they said, gosh, we want you to 1226 01:21:57.079 --> 01:22:00.439 job to Fan Dangel at WrestleMania. I think that if he's out there and 1227 01:22:00.520 --> 01:22:02.479 said, is this the guy you're going with, and Vince said, yep, 1228 01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:06.560 he would do it. Yeah, you know so, and and you 1229 01:22:06.600 --> 01:22:10.600 know, let me make it clear too. I don't think they should give 1230 01:22:10.640 --> 01:22:13.840 it to Sina ending the Street, but I do think that if you have 1231 01:22:14.079 --> 01:22:18.479 two to three years left with Sena and you want to make a big match 1232 01:22:18.840 --> 01:22:23.279 and you want to do something with that streak, if Undertaker goes, guys, 1233 01:22:23.359 --> 01:22:27.079 I'm coming back to thirty, find the guy, and and if and 1234 01:22:27.279 --> 01:22:30.119 if Vince says I need to find the guy and make the most amount of 1235 01:22:30.159 --> 01:22:31.960 money. I think if you can turn Sena out of it, and then 1236 01:22:32.000 --> 01:22:36.359 you can at that point you can then build somebody off of Scena being heal, 1237 01:22:36.880 --> 01:22:40.640 you know, you can build a new baby face again. You have 1238 01:22:40.760 --> 01:22:43.840 to put the pieces of the puzzle together. I'm not saying go out there 1239 01:22:43.880 --> 01:22:46.840 and job Undertaker for the sake of jobbing Undertaker. Let's put the pieces together. 1240 01:22:47.079 --> 01:22:49.760 Let's make sure it makes money, Let's make sure that it draws people 1241 01:22:49.800 --> 01:22:55.960 in and end left. Utilize this bullet that we have very good. Um, 1242 01:22:56.079 --> 01:22:58.760 let's end the lifecast portion of the show. Here. Will move to 1243 01:22:58.920 --> 01:23:01.479 the v at the after show portion and answer a few email questions with John 1244 01:23:01.520 --> 01:23:05.920 Permarini before we go. So VIP members hold tight. If you are not 1245 01:23:06.000 --> 01:23:10.680 a VAP member and you want to become a VIP member through the end of 1246 01:23:10.680 --> 01:23:13.439 today, you can get half price out the first month, so ten dollars 1247 01:23:13.479 --> 01:23:15.960 become spies and you get a full month of access. Just go to Pwtorch 1248 01:23:16.039 --> 01:23:23.600 dot com slash go v ip and enter the coupon code. The coupon code 1249 01:23:24.239 --> 01:23:28.680 SAIL twenty nine ABC twenty nine for Rustomania twenty nine of course, so sail 1250 01:23:28.960 --> 01:23:34.000 twenty nine ABC all lowercase letters numeral twenty nine and that'll get you five dollars 1251 01:23:34.079 --> 01:23:38.119 off. And you can also check out details on the sale on our Facebook 1252 01:23:38.119 --> 01:23:41.680 page Facebook dot com, Slash Pro Wrestling Torch or on our Twitter account at 1253 01:23:41.720 --> 01:23:45.359 PW torch, and on our website of course, pwtorch dot com, and 1254 01:23:45.840 --> 01:23:50.359 on our app, which is free and available to download on all major smartphones. 1255 01:23:50.920 --> 01:23:55.159 John, do you have anything you want to plug or social media handles 1256 01:23:55.199 --> 01:23:59.279 you want to give out or anything like that. Yeah, all right, 1257 01:24:00.239 --> 01:24:08.920 good, so that'll do it for us today. Do you remember when Hulkogan 1258 01:24:09.039 --> 01:24:12.840 shocked the world and formed the New World Order? Or when Stone Cold Steve 1259 01:24:12.920 --> 01:24:16.800 Auston passed down on the Sharpshooter to breath the Hitman heart. I'm Torch contributor 1260 01:24:16.840 --> 01:24:23.680 Frank Pettianni and I reviewed these shows and many more for my exclusive VIP podcast, 1261 01:24:23.840 --> 01:24:27.600 Pro Wrestling Than and Now. Together with a rotating chair of co hosts, 1262 01:24:27.880 --> 01:24:30.439 we go back ten, twenty, even thirty years, review pay per 1263 01:24:30.520 --> 01:24:34.159 views from top to bottom, talk about where the wrestlers were at the time, 1264 01:24:34.439 --> 01:24:38.880 and compare what took place then to what is taking place now. You 1265 01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:44.119 get exclusive access to these and other podcasts as part of your PW Torch VIP 1266 01:24:44.279 --> 01:24:48.359 membership, which is compatible with the Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com 1267 01:24:48.479 --> 01:25:00.399 slash go vip for details and sign up for all right on. As we 1268 01:25:00.640 --> 01:25:04.399 now moved into the VA exclusive after show, an email question from Jay R 1269 01:25:04.880 --> 01:25:08.760 is do you think the build up to see them Punk and Undertaker being more 1270 01:25:08.800 --> 01:25:13.319 about under was being more about Undertaker getting revenge for the Paul Bear disrespect issue 1271 01:25:13.800 --> 01:25:16.199 made fans less convinced Punk would be the person to end the streak. I 1272 01:25:16.239 --> 01:25:19.600 feel if the match were built around Punk selling his championship run and being the 1273 01:25:19.640 --> 01:25:24.640 best in the world against Undertaker, who wanted to face the best possible opponent, 1274 01:25:24.880 --> 01:25:27.359 fans might have bought into the idea that Undertaker was going to pass the 1275 01:25:27.439 --> 01:25:30.960 torch and let Punk go over in the match. That's Jay from Liverpool, 1276 01:25:31.359 --> 01:25:33.560 by the way, says he's from the same city as Kids on Bridges, 1277 01:25:33.600 --> 01:25:36.680 So that's pretty cool. John. What do you think of that, because 1278 01:25:36.680 --> 01:25:41.840 you've been you kind of complimented that, you kind of complimented the way the 1279 01:25:41.880 --> 01:25:46.880 match was built up. Yeah, you know, it depends on how they 1280 01:25:46.960 --> 01:25:49.039 did it. Yeah. I mean, first of all, the way that 1281 01:25:49.119 --> 01:25:51.680 he got that match was odd, you know, because I think it was 1282 01:25:51.720 --> 01:25:57.000 just a natural transition to go all right, you know what, you guys 1283 01:25:57.039 --> 01:26:00.960 took away something from me. I'm going to take away the most important industry 1284 01:26:00.039 --> 01:26:03.800 has ever seen, you know, and I think that would have been great. 1285 01:26:04.359 --> 01:26:14.279 I think, um, I think that that he's right, But I 1286 01:26:14.439 --> 01:26:18.319 don't think that there was that feeling that Punk would have been the guy no 1287 01:26:18.439 --> 01:26:23.520 matter what story you told, unless he had the title. And um, 1288 01:26:24.239 --> 01:26:29.520 so I feel like they they they made they made the best of what was 1289 01:26:29.680 --> 01:26:31.760 there with how they got into the match. You know, Okay, I 1290 01:26:32.039 --> 01:26:35.439 want to fatal four way and now I get to wrestle the Undertaker. What 1291 01:26:35.560 --> 01:26:40.479 do you do from there? You know? Um, it wasn't like it 1292 01:26:40.760 --> 01:26:43.840 was. See I'm Punk had a vendetta, gets Taker and he's gonna and 1293 01:26:43.920 --> 01:26:46.239 he's gonna go after the streak. So I like what they did because it 1294 01:26:46.479 --> 01:26:51.560 made it took a not so fresh matchup and and and and made it again 1295 01:26:51.720 --> 01:26:56.039 kind of kind of real. And I love that. I loved how when 1296 01:26:56.079 --> 01:27:00.279 they tried to make things real and you know what, it pushed buttons and 1297 01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:03.279 people can say whatever they want. The fact that they're irritated by it means 1298 01:27:03.319 --> 01:27:08.840 it worked. So. Um, if it would have been done in the 1299 01:27:08.960 --> 01:27:15.119 beginning to have Punk set his sights on the Undertaker and take away something that 1300 01:27:15.199 --> 01:27:18.239 maybe is even more important than what they took away from him. Yeah, 1301 01:27:18.319 --> 01:27:21.000 I think it could have worked, but with the way that it was presented 1302 01:27:21.039 --> 01:27:27.039 to set it up, I think that they did something that was you know, 1303 01:27:27.920 --> 01:27:32.239 I don't mean to say this in a disrespectful way to Paul Bearer or 1304 01:27:32.319 --> 01:27:38.279 his family, but they got to use something that worked, you know that 1305 01:27:38.439 --> 01:27:42.560 that got at least my interest in the match. I'm a big CM punk 1306 01:27:42.600 --> 01:27:45.399 fan, so I would have been interested anyways. But they were able to 1307 01:27:45.520 --> 01:27:49.000 utilize something with the consent of the family, and I think that it worked, 1308 01:27:49.520 --> 01:27:53.600 and I don't. I don't think it would have worked the way that 1309 01:27:53.680 --> 01:27:56.199 it was set up. If it was set up differently from the beginning, 1310 01:27:56.399 --> 01:27:59.479 yes, it could have worked. But still I don't think anyone was buying 1311 01:27:59.520 --> 01:28:01.439 he was then in the street unless he had the title, and I think 1312 01:28:01.479 --> 01:28:04.720 that that was even evident by where they put the match on the card. 1313 01:28:06.640 --> 01:28:10.960 Jay also asked has Vince or anybody in a senior management role ever addressed how 1314 01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:13.600 a crowd reacts or doesn't react to certain events playing out in the ring. 1315 01:28:13.840 --> 01:28:16.000 Have any attempts ever been made to help create a more energetic and responsive crowd 1316 01:28:16.399 --> 01:28:18.800 like we've seen in the late night like we saw in the late nineties. 1317 01:28:19.880 --> 01:28:23.960 Always, I mean, you're always trying to manipulate the crowd. There's there's 1318 01:28:24.000 --> 01:28:28.560 times that he does things on the fly to get the crowd going, you 1319 01:28:28.640 --> 01:28:31.359 know, or or bring the crowd down, or whatever whatever way he wants 1320 01:28:31.399 --> 01:28:36.479 to manipulate you. He's always thinking about that. It's never something that's just, 1321 01:28:36.800 --> 01:28:41.520 oh, you know what, let's try this. It's constantly he's doing 1322 01:28:41.640 --> 01:28:45.920 what he thinks needs to be done to get what he wants out of you 1323 01:28:45.119 --> 01:28:48.520 and to give you what he thinks you want. Next question, I'm gonna 1324 01:28:48.520 --> 01:28:51.239 try to hit a few of these before a wrap up here. Rapid Fire 1325 01:28:51.319 --> 01:28:55.880 Jason three eighteen, a VP member, says John before has alluded to the 1326 01:28:55.920 --> 01:28:58.640 fact that he was on the team that handled the Legacy storyline. I want 1327 01:28:58.640 --> 01:29:00.680 to ask about a rod ring the Legacy era US so to speak, where 1328 01:29:00.680 --> 01:29:04.199 the final segments of Tedbiac stand up to Randy Orton and the crowd was stopping 1329 01:29:04.199 --> 01:29:08.039 their feet and support of Ted. They were even chanting his name. It 1330 01:29:08.119 --> 01:29:10.359 was like he had enough of Orton's treating him like crap and he was gonna 1331 01:29:10.399 --> 01:29:13.560 snap. And the crowd was right behind him there and then he showed a 1332 01:29:13.600 --> 01:29:15.800 lot of fire, almost floaming up the mouth, wanting a piece of Orton. 1333 01:29:15.000 --> 01:29:17.960 But then the next week he went back to beating being Orton's sidekick and 1334 01:29:18.039 --> 01:29:21.079 showed no spine. Right then and there, I said, moment lost to 1335 01:29:21.159 --> 01:29:24.800 him, never get it back, and he didn't. Can John Sleep explain 1336 01:29:24.880 --> 01:29:28.119 what the logic was behind giving d Bass a great moment to stand up to 1337 01:29:28.279 --> 01:29:30.920 Orton, but then never doing anything afterwards, Because like you, Wade, 1338 01:29:30.920 --> 01:29:32.960 I always thought the BOSC had great potential and being that straight up good guy 1339 01:29:33.039 --> 01:29:40.319 baby face in the midst of madness. Yeah, guy, I really wanted 1340 01:29:40.359 --> 01:29:45.279 to to make him kind of us to walk away from that legacy story as 1341 01:29:45.479 --> 01:29:48.760 as a top guy. And uh, I don't know. I asked myself 1342 01:29:48.840 --> 01:29:53.840 the same question he asked now, I don't know why we we went there 1343 01:29:53.960 --> 01:29:57.880 and then we didn't, we didn't follow up. I never really got got 1344 01:29:57.960 --> 01:30:00.079 an answer to that, and trust me, I wanted to know. And 1345 01:30:01.319 --> 01:30:06.600 I just think that you know, there's a philosophy of who are we getting 1346 01:30:06.640 --> 01:30:12.600 over, and that's who we focus on, and at that point Orton was 1347 01:30:12.680 --> 01:30:15.479 turning baby Face out of the legacy story, and that's who we had to 1348 01:30:15.560 --> 01:30:20.439 worry about. Yeah, I don't know. I don't I wish I can 1349 01:30:20.479 --> 01:30:24.960 answer that question, because I'd like to answer myself. Was that was that 1350 01:30:25.279 --> 01:30:29.359 moment for Dbaci to deliberately written at the time, it was written to the 1351 01:30:29.399 --> 01:30:31.960 best of your knowledge, to lead somewhere, And then Vince kind of saw 1352 01:30:32.079 --> 01:30:34.439 rose headed and just said, Nope, we're going to steer it another way. 1353 01:30:35.119 --> 01:30:41.079 Yeah, that legacy story was going to be really good. That's all 1354 01:30:41.079 --> 01:30:43.439 I'm going to say. That legacy story was going to be really good. 1355 01:30:43.760 --> 01:30:47.640 And and and my answer to your question is the same one as to I 1356 01:30:47.880 --> 01:30:53.399 don't know why we didn't do it. Yeah, but it was it was 1357 01:30:53.520 --> 01:30:57.359 it would qualify as a change in plans based on the oppression you had the 1358 01:30:57.479 --> 01:31:00.640 week earlier. I don't know if it was so much a change in plans 1359 01:31:00.800 --> 01:31:09.039 as as it was just a lack of follow up follow I think it was 1360 01:31:09.119 --> 01:31:13.720 just follow the philosophy it's orton right now. And I thought we could have 1361 01:31:13.840 --> 01:31:16.319 done something with both of them. I really think that we could have gotten 1362 01:31:16.359 --> 01:31:20.199 both those guys over. Yeah, and you know, just like just like 1363 01:31:20.279 --> 01:31:23.680 the one caller before it said, look, I don't agree with the way 1364 01:31:23.880 --> 01:31:28.000 you're wrestling philosophy on things you know, people don't agree with me, and 1365 01:31:28.079 --> 01:31:30.600 I may again maybe I would have been wrong, but I really felt like 1366 01:31:30.720 --> 01:31:35.199 people were getting behind ted and we could have used that to even do what 1367 01:31:35.359 --> 01:31:40.039 we wanted to do and still come out with the same outcome, with Orton 1368 01:31:40.119 --> 01:31:45.279 walking away from that not only getting over but as a baby face. We 1369 01:31:45.319 --> 01:31:47.359 have another email question related to Randy Orton. This is Brandon from Michigan of 1370 01:31:47.439 --> 01:31:50.680 VFP member. He says, is WW only holding out to Randy Orton in 1371 01:31:50.760 --> 01:31:54.079 your view, just so no one else gets him other contract? He's just 1372 01:31:54.199 --> 01:31:57.760 treading water and he can't be trusted with a major push because he has two 1373 01:31:57.840 --> 01:32:00.920 strikes. How do you think Randy Orton's career I thought over the next few 1374 01:32:00.000 --> 01:32:04.920 years given those circumstances, I think it's a wasted a wasted talent right now. 1375 01:32:05.199 --> 01:32:08.840 I don't think they're holding onto him, so TNA doesn't kid am I 1376 01:32:09.279 --> 01:32:15.239 why would you not utilize Randy Orton? He's over and people care about him, 1377 01:32:15.279 --> 01:32:17.119 and you've invested money in him. Why wouldn't you have them and why 1378 01:32:17.119 --> 01:32:21.000 wouldn't you keep him around and keep them in a semi prominent role. I 1379 01:32:21.079 --> 01:32:24.520 mean, I guess I can understand, again, from a business standpoint, 1380 01:32:24.560 --> 01:32:28.279 we're going to invest more on you and you might f up again and that 1381 01:32:28.439 --> 01:32:31.920 screws us over. So I can understand the hesitation. But I don't think 1382 01:32:31.960 --> 01:32:35.479 that they're just keeping them just so we can say Cana can't have them. 1383 01:32:35.520 --> 01:32:40.000 I think they'd keep them because they feel he could still be utilized and people 1384 01:32:40.079 --> 01:32:44.680 can still be utilized without being the top guy on the card. Yeah. 1385 01:32:45.239 --> 01:32:48.319 Yeah, they're not just a sponsor. I am a customer of Factor Home 1386 01:32:48.359 --> 01:32:54.199 delivery Meals. Go to Factor meals dot com slash Wade fifty to get fifty 1387 01:32:54.239 --> 01:32:58.319 percent off your first box of chef prepared meals. 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All you need is an authorized 1397 01:33:36.479 --> 01:33:40.399 VIP membership. As soon as you sign up on our express sign up form, 1398 01:33:40.640 --> 01:33:43.279 which takes about a minute, you'll get a link and you click on 1399 01:33:43.359 --> 01:33:46.680 it and it opens Apple podcasts and subscribes, no entering anything, no advanced 1400 01:33:46.680 --> 01:33:50.800 settings. You can also subscribe on more podcast apps than ever other than Apple 1401 01:33:50.840 --> 01:33:57.439 podcasts, including Beyond Pod and dog Catcher on Android and many others on iPhones 1402 01:33:57.439 --> 01:34:01.279 and iOS. So VIP membership it's more convenient than you realize. Get all 1403 01:34:01.279 --> 01:34:05.239 the benefits of VP membership, all the VPP exclusive podcasts and these shows with 1404 01:34:05.359 --> 01:34:11.439 the ads and plugs removed with a v IP membership. Pwtorch dot com slash 1405 01:34:11.800 --> 01:34:15.399 go v IP. It's quick, it's easy, it's convenient, and we 1406 01:34:15.479 --> 01:34:24.239 think it's worth it. Pwtorch dot com slash go vi ip. All right, 1407 01:34:24.319 --> 01:34:27.600 let me, Actually it was going through email and a couple already, 1408 01:34:27.800 --> 01:34:30.319 a couple other people believe what are not? John asked about the GM storyline 1409 01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:34.279 marking thoses do not ask. It's just crazy. Didn't they watch it? 1410 01:34:34.359 --> 01:34:36.560 It was hornswoggle. I thought, I know that's a thing. Well, 1411 01:34:36.560 --> 01:34:41.119 they want to know what the original plans were and you know why they changed. 1412 01:34:41.159 --> 01:34:44.239 All right, this is John. I'm sorry, he goes Wade and 1413 01:34:44.319 --> 01:34:46.359 John. It's Nathan from Sydney. Here it has been said on this show 1414 01:34:46.359 --> 01:34:49.720 before then Undertaker wrestling only once a year is a drawing card for Dresslemania. 1415 01:34:50.199 --> 01:34:54.800 Well, Undertaker wrestling some matches through the next twelve months affect the WrestleMania by 1416 01:34:54.920 --> 01:34:57.760 rate. So that's part one. Part two. We know Chris Jericho is 1417 01:34:57.800 --> 01:35:00.039 over with the smart fans or the internet fans, the type of fan that 1418 01:35:00.079 --> 01:35:02.159 attends WrestleMania. Is there a chance the Route crowd this week we're trying to 1419 01:35:02.159 --> 01:35:08.359 get Fandango over to make Chris Jericho look good. That's giving people a lot 1420 01:35:08.439 --> 01:35:12.359 more credit. That was my answer. Yeah, yeah, like the fans 1421 01:35:12.479 --> 01:35:15.640 center going, let's cheer for Fandango, so that j Jericho gets credit for 1422 01:35:15.720 --> 01:35:19.439 making him a star. But I will say that possibly the fact that Fandango 1423 01:35:19.600 --> 01:35:28.199 looked good against Jericho at WrestleMania gave fans a little more confidence to get behind 1424 01:35:28.319 --> 01:35:30.239 him in the way that they did on Monday. Perhaps, yeah, you 1425 01:35:30.279 --> 01:35:35.199 know, it doesn't I think enough people know just from the stories, even 1426 01:35:35.279 --> 01:35:41.479 from Whole Coogan talking about Andre passing the torch and putting him over and making 1427 01:35:41.560 --> 01:35:45.199 him the next guy. I think people understand that for somebody to put somebody 1428 01:35:45.279 --> 01:35:48.680 else over, they have to endorse them themselves. You could, you could 1429 01:35:48.720 --> 01:35:53.479 pay a guy enough money to not care, but I think Jericho cares enough, 1430 01:35:53.880 --> 01:35:57.640 and I think that for him to go, I'll put Fandango over. 1431 01:35:58.359 --> 01:36:01.439 He felt like he should it, and I think that if if, if 1432 01:36:01.560 --> 01:36:06.119 that many people respect Jericho and like Jericho. I think they've said, hey, 1433 01:36:06.159 --> 01:36:10.560 if Jericho see something in this guy, so do we um. I 1434 01:36:10.720 --> 01:36:15.159 don't think that the crowd chanting his music had anything to do with anything, 1435 01:36:15.399 --> 01:36:19.880 but they're just paying the way that they were. You know. It's it's 1436 01:36:19.920 --> 01:36:27.000 like saying they saw Randy Orton walk into the arena eating a pretzel, so 1437 01:36:27.079 --> 01:36:30.319 they put over the pretzel guy. I just think they were a rowdy crowd 1438 01:36:30.920 --> 01:36:33.520 and fan Dango came out and they ran out of ideas of what's a chance, 1439 01:36:33.560 --> 01:36:38.439 so they sang his music. What I think now, it's cool, 1440 01:36:39.279 --> 01:36:42.079 what is your impression. We haven't gotten to the sense d it's no colors 1441 01:36:42.119 --> 01:36:43.960 asked. I was going to save it for the after show, so here 1442 01:36:44.039 --> 01:36:46.800 we are. Um. Was what happened on Monday Night? Good or bad 1443 01:36:47.000 --> 01:36:56.000 for w W E N? Why? Oh? Um? It depends on 1444 01:36:56.199 --> 01:37:00.680 what moment. I think that it was good for WWE for Dolph Zigler because 1445 01:37:00.720 --> 01:37:04.279 I think people watching at home perception is reality, and maybe if they sat 1446 01:37:04.319 --> 01:37:06.720 there and said, Oh, I really get Ziggler, He's not really the 1447 01:37:06.800 --> 01:37:10.640 guy, and then they saw that a reaction, I think they went, 1448 01:37:10.760 --> 01:37:15.600 oh, wow, this guy's over. They've been waiting years for this. 1449 01:37:15.880 --> 01:37:20.880 I think that during the I think it would hurt Shamus and Orton. Oh, 1450 01:37:21.000 --> 01:37:26.640 I guess people don't care about them. I others did that though, 1451 01:37:26.720 --> 01:37:30.119 and then, um, I can't remember any other chance. But yeah, 1452 01:37:30.159 --> 01:37:35.560 I think it hurts and it helps. Again, it depends on what chance 1453 01:37:35.600 --> 01:37:39.920 they were saying and when. And I think it helps Fandango because now I 1454 01:37:40.000 --> 01:37:42.680 think people are going to go and say, you know what, I'm gonna 1455 01:37:42.720 --> 01:37:45.279 do that now when Fandango comes out. So I think it. I think 1456 01:37:45.319 --> 01:37:46.880 it helped a couple guys, and I think it hurts the stock of a 1457 01:37:46.960 --> 01:37:51.239 couple of guys, but overall as the company, I don't really I think 1458 01:37:51.279 --> 01:37:56.960 they liked that that happened. I think they'd rather have that than you're sitting 1459 01:37:57.000 --> 01:37:59.880 on your ass and not saying anything, which happens in the majority of the 1460 01:38:00.039 --> 01:38:04.399 city. How about the crowd just entertaining themselves during Orton Shamus. It was 1461 01:38:04.479 --> 01:38:08.359 that if you had seen that on the script, and again, nobody, 1462 01:38:08.479 --> 01:38:11.479 I shouldn't say nobody, but it wasn't just common knowledge of a crowd. 1463 01:38:11.520 --> 01:38:13.039 It was going to be like this. It wasn't like, oh, you 1464 01:38:13.079 --> 01:38:15.000 know, it's the day after mania. They're always crazy here. It's like 1465 01:38:15.119 --> 01:38:17.720 nobody knew to that degree it would happen. But if you saw the script 1466 01:38:17.800 --> 01:38:21.319 and you saw the storyline they were doing Orton Shamus, it's going to fill 1467 01:38:21.319 --> 01:38:25.600 a lot of time in the third hour when people's patients already has tested it. 1468 01:38:25.640 --> 01:38:28.399 They've been there from the beginning, two baby faces against each other. 1469 01:38:29.600 --> 01:38:31.520 It was that asking for trouble to begin with. If you saw that on 1470 01:38:31.560 --> 01:38:34.319 the script, or are Orton and Shamus two pros? And who could have 1471 01:38:34.399 --> 01:38:39.600 seen that kind of rejection of what they were doing coming, Well, you're 1472 01:38:39.760 --> 01:38:44.920 you're Okay, you're talking to someone that wouldn't have done that story in the 1473 01:38:45.000 --> 01:38:47.199 first place, because I think you're insulting people's intelligence. So let's just start 1474 01:38:47.279 --> 01:38:54.560 from being there and being part of creating a story. And if you put 1475 01:38:54.640 --> 01:38:58.439 a story out there, you obviously think that it's going to get over and 1476 01:39:00.720 --> 01:39:03.600 I don't. I mean, you have two guys who got knocked out by 1477 01:39:04.880 --> 01:39:09.239 by Big Show, but yet they're bickering with each other of who gets to 1478 01:39:09.319 --> 01:39:14.880 kick his ass first, who cares go go kick his ass, you know, 1479 01:39:15.239 --> 01:39:16.760 or both of you go kick his ass? Why do I care that 1480 01:39:17.439 --> 01:39:20.479 you get a mass with them tonight? How about this Shamus? Right, 1481 01:39:20.560 --> 01:39:23.960 man, I was wrong. If you want to punch me in the face, 1482 01:39:24.239 --> 01:39:27.159 punch me in the face. And then Shamus goes, yeah, I'm 1483 01:39:27.199 --> 01:39:29.520 gonna punch you in the face, and he punches them in the face. 1484 01:39:29.560 --> 01:39:32.159 And then you get you know, the agents to come in between them backstage, 1485 01:39:32.319 --> 01:39:34.720 and you have Vicky Guerrero go in there and go go out there and 1486 01:39:34.800 --> 01:39:38.199 settle it the way it should be done, and I think he would have 1487 01:39:38.239 --> 01:39:42.079 got a different reaction. And then on the flip side of that is you 1488 01:39:42.159 --> 01:39:45.079 could have just had both these guys, go, I'm going after Big Show, 1489 01:39:45.800 --> 01:39:49.960 you know. I mean think think. I think sometimes people try to 1490 01:39:50.319 --> 01:39:57.680 too hard to tell an unreal unrealistic story, and I don't think that their 1491 01:39:57.760 --> 01:40:00.359 mind is set on telling an unrealistic story, or I think they're just forcing 1492 01:40:01.279 --> 01:40:06.279 a story instead of thinking in what would actually really happen, you know. 1493 01:40:06.439 --> 01:40:11.319 I mean, I think that Shamus got convinced by Orton that we should put 1494 01:40:11.439 --> 01:40:15.000 Big Show on the team. If you already know Big Shows an asshole, 1495 01:40:15.439 --> 01:40:21.479 then why do you I mean, I could go off on a twenty minute 1496 01:40:21.520 --> 01:40:25.760 rant here. I think that it should have just been done differently. Instead, 1497 01:40:25.840 --> 01:40:28.720 you're having them, You're forcing a match on the crowd, and I 1498 01:40:28.840 --> 01:40:30.960 think that that's the way that they took it. You're forcing this on me, 1499 01:40:31.319 --> 01:40:34.119 and we're going to react accordingly. We don't want to see it, 1500 01:40:34.279 --> 01:40:36.680 so we're going to entertain ourselves. And I don't know if you knew, 1501 01:40:36.760 --> 01:40:41.920 John, but at the event they did ring introductions and Shamus and Orton were 1502 01:40:41.960 --> 01:40:44.439 bickering, and I think this actually played into it because it was a smart 1503 01:40:44.479 --> 01:40:46.640 crowd, a perceptive crowd with a lot of energy. They went to a 1504 01:40:46.680 --> 01:40:49.680 commercial break and they turned the lights down, and Orton and Shamus just stood 1505 01:40:49.720 --> 01:40:53.720 there and did nothing. And then when the red light came back on, 1506 01:40:53.800 --> 01:40:56.760 they turned the spotlight back on. Orton Shamus started bickering again, and I 1507 01:40:56.880 --> 01:41:00.239 think the crowd looked at that and said, that's just tude aad you guys 1508 01:41:00.560 --> 01:41:05.319 like it. Totally broke the authenticity, insulting your intelligence. Yeah, you 1509 01:41:05.479 --> 01:41:10.600 do that to anybody, they will turn on you. Yeah. So I 1510 01:41:10.720 --> 01:41:12.880 think that's one of the unknown. I mean, maybe they would have done 1511 01:41:12.880 --> 01:41:15.079 exactly the same thing, but that might have made them go, screw you 1512 01:41:15.199 --> 01:41:18.079 guys. You're putting on a show force and you can't even bother to care 1513 01:41:18.119 --> 01:41:23.920 about us. You're only caring about the TV audience. So exactly. Yeah. 1514 01:41:24.000 --> 01:41:26.720 I saw at a at a TV event once way. I think it 1515 01:41:26.760 --> 01:41:30.119 was a SmackDown taping. Swagger was came to the ring and did his little 1516 01:41:30.119 --> 01:41:31.720 thing where he like jumps in the air with his arms out little is there 1517 01:41:31.760 --> 01:41:35.960 an official name for that, the airplane hop. I don't know what does 1518 01:41:36.039 --> 01:41:39.279 he do that he puts his arm well, he doesn't anymore, his new 1519 01:41:39.359 --> 01:41:41.920 character doesn't put his old character getting the ring and he kind of do a 1520 01:41:42.039 --> 01:41:46.560 couple a couple of hops with his arms extended. Everybody has the running in 1521 01:41:46.640 --> 01:41:49.079 a circle with his arms out that. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of. 1522 01:41:49.239 --> 01:41:54.359 Yeah, so he did that. Yeah, oh well he did that. 1523 01:41:54.720 --> 01:41:58.920 The cameraman walks up to him and whisper something to him and basically says, 1524 01:41:59.000 --> 01:42:00.119 we didn't catch it. You need to do it again. So he 1525 01:42:00.239 --> 01:42:02.319 had, he did it. He stopped, he's playing to the crowd, 1526 01:42:02.319 --> 01:42:04.560 the cameraman to do it again, and he listened, and then he gets 1527 01:42:04.600 --> 01:42:09.199 up and he does it again and it was just awful. It's like doing 1528 01:42:09.279 --> 01:42:14.760 that for the TV audience is not important enough to expose to the live crowd 1529 01:42:15.479 --> 01:42:18.159 that this guy is just a puppet with strings being pulled by somebody in speaking 1530 01:42:18.199 --> 01:42:20.199 to the camera guy in the back, it was it was like just one 1531 01:42:20.199 --> 01:42:23.800 of those kind of come on, you know, think about the live crowd 1532 01:42:23.880 --> 01:42:27.119 type moments. It took me out of the moment again. Yeah, you 1533 01:42:27.159 --> 01:42:30.840 know, and the crowd is important too for what is presenting on presented on 1534 01:42:30.960 --> 01:42:35.039 TV. Um. Yeah, that has to be very careful, very careful 1535 01:42:35.119 --> 01:42:40.319 with everything that's the person sees on TV as your product, and the audience 1536 01:42:40.439 --> 01:42:42.920 is part of that, and he has to be very careful with how you 1537 01:42:43.039 --> 01:42:45.439 treat them, because if they turned or if they react the way you don't 1538 01:42:45.479 --> 01:42:49.560 watch, it's gonna it's gonna come across that way on television. YEP. 1539 01:42:53.920 --> 01:42:58.000 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me. Jason Powell hosts 1540 01:42:58.039 --> 01:43:00.880 him to three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. Each week, he'll hear the 1541 01:43:00.960 --> 01:43:04.359 latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot Net along 1542 01:43:04.439 --> 01:43:09.520 with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast features 1543 01:43:09.600 --> 01:43:13.760 long form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe an it 1544 01:43:13.880 --> 01:43:16.880 tune, Stitcher, downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps, or visit 1545 01:43:16.960 --> 01:43:23.039 us directly at pwboom dot com. Once again, that's pwboom dot com. 1546 01:43:30.319 --> 01:43:32.880 Quick question from Scott Briller. Is the Taker Punk issue over with? Or 1547 01:43:32.920 --> 01:43:38.520 could you see Taker in Triple H teaming up against punk in Brock in a 1548 01:43:38.600 --> 01:43:42.680 tag match combining two of the singles matches at Mania Share put it on SmackDown. 1549 01:43:42.720 --> 01:43:48.439 I don't care about it? And why not? Where do you get 1550 01:43:48.439 --> 01:43:51.319 out of the tag match? I mean you have a rock, right, 1551 01:43:51.439 --> 01:43:56.159 I mean put them again someone and tell a story. You're gonna get eyeballs 1552 01:43:56.239 --> 01:44:00.520 because of them, you devide the eyeballs that come in Brock. Why would 1553 01:44:00.640 --> 01:44:08.279 brock Lessner team with anybody except cmpunk Um? You know you did you say 1554 01:44:08.359 --> 01:44:10.399 CM punk I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, it would so would be a 1555 01:44:10.399 --> 01:44:12.359 rematch. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay, 1556 01:44:12.560 --> 01:44:15.920 that's m I uh okay, in the sense of brock Lessener again, 1557 01:44:16.000 --> 01:44:18.520 I think he's better used to tell a story with. Yeah, I can 1558 01:44:18.560 --> 01:44:21.399 see Paul Hayman go to him. From a business standpoint, this is a 1559 01:44:21.439 --> 01:44:26.119 great and I'm talking about character, you know, teams punking, you know, 1560 01:44:26.119 --> 01:44:28.960 blah blah blah blah blah. I could see that happening. But I 1561 01:44:29.319 --> 01:44:32.359 don't think. I think you're wasting again, especially Joe. Okay, so 1562 01:44:32.399 --> 01:44:38.199 you're staying Triple H and uh so basically combined us by the name right now? 1563 01:44:38.319 --> 01:44:41.840 Yeah, yeah, What do you get out of it? Yeah, 1564 01:44:41.920 --> 01:44:44.119 I don't. I don't. I don't know other than it's a chance to 1565 01:44:44.159 --> 01:44:48.800 see Undertaker against brock Um, you know, you know, and so you 1566 01:44:48.880 --> 01:44:51.159 sell that notion if you're not, if you don't have plants for that at 1567 01:44:51.199 --> 01:44:56.359 Mania, because it's Punkin Brock against Taker and Hunter, and you also have 1568 01:44:56.399 --> 01:44:59.199 a chance to see Hunter against Punk one more time and a rematch of the 1569 01:44:59.239 --> 01:45:02.319 two big matches that and if it's a means to an end, where then 1570 01:45:02.439 --> 01:45:08.199 you also maybe tease dissension between Punk and lessner um I who knows? Who 1571 01:45:08.239 --> 01:45:10.479 knows? Maybe it's used as a vehicle to get Triple H into one more 1572 01:45:10.520 --> 01:45:13.119 match with undertake rot Mania, although I think Hunter knows better than that. 1573 01:45:14.000 --> 01:45:16.359 Oh my gosh, is there were people that want to see that? I 1574 01:45:16.439 --> 01:45:19.560 don't think so. But Hunter, Hunter and Hunter in the audience, the 1575 01:45:19.600 --> 01:45:27.359 imagines exist. Yeah, all right. Final question VFT member East Coast Jam. 1576 01:45:27.399 --> 01:45:30.520 I would be curious for John Stott's on the style of comedy WWW presents. 1577 01:45:30.560 --> 01:45:32.560 I consider it, with all due respect, to be embarrassing, embarrassingly 1578 01:45:32.600 --> 01:45:35.960 bad. Uh. Some comic moments, such as the d X Reunion era 1579 01:45:36.079 --> 01:45:40.960 tops the list among the worst television I've ever seen the comic. Speaking of 1580 01:45:41.000 --> 01:45:43.479 Triple H, the comedy is a big part of the reason I'm embarrassed to 1581 01:45:43.479 --> 01:45:45.520 have raw on TV with friends over and I think it contributes to the uncool 1582 01:45:45.600 --> 01:45:50.159 reputation of wrestling. Why has wwb's tone definiti's been so persistent over the years 1583 01:45:50.479 --> 01:45:54.479 when it comes to this element, and I'd add to it, John John 1584 01:45:54.520 --> 01:46:01.119 Cena too seems somewhat completely oblivious to how dorky and I think interproductive that the 1585 01:46:01.279 --> 01:46:06.640 cheesy, corny sensing humor is. You know, the only way to really 1586 01:46:08.880 --> 01:46:14.560 figure out why it's still being done is because no whoever connekes the decision to 1587 01:46:15.399 --> 01:46:19.960 cut it is doesn't believe that it's not working. I just really feel like 1588 01:46:20.279 --> 01:46:24.960 they want WWE to be more than a wrestling company and being be able to 1589 01:46:25.039 --> 01:46:29.039 hold its own, you know, against and I don't know why, but 1590 01:46:29.199 --> 01:46:35.079 American idol crowd, SNL crowd, wrestling crowd, comedy crowd, drama crowd. 1591 01:46:35.279 --> 01:46:39.640 I think they want the same people that tune into The Walking Dead to 1592 01:46:39.800 --> 01:46:45.640 like WWE. But you that you also, you can't do that. You 1593 01:46:45.720 --> 01:46:50.720 can't you can't be not that good at a hundred things, be really great 1594 01:46:50.720 --> 01:46:56.239 at one thing. The Walking Dead doesn't just take little little little stabs at 1595 01:46:56.319 --> 01:46:59.880 comedy very little, you know, but it works because if they do it, 1596 01:47:00.000 --> 01:47:03.439 it's done right. And WWE needs to go look for a wrestling company. 1597 01:47:03.600 --> 01:47:10.880 There's enough people out there for us to make a ton of money and 1598 01:47:13.319 --> 01:47:16.399 sprinkle in a little comedy, sprinkle the in a little drama, sprinkle in 1599 01:47:16.479 --> 01:47:20.279 a little um whatever else you want to do, you know, a little 1600 01:47:20.359 --> 01:47:25.399 TNA and I mean boobs and asks, you know what I mean, like, 1601 01:47:25.680 --> 01:47:29.399 sprinkle that stuff into this product and make sure that every time you do 1602 01:47:29.560 --> 01:47:34.600 it it's done right, and and people will people will accept that more. 1603 01:47:34.600 --> 01:47:39.039 And I feel like you're losing more people than your gaining because let's say I 1604 01:47:39.159 --> 01:47:41.880 like Saturday Night Live and I go, hey, if you tune into WWE, 1605 01:47:42.039 --> 01:47:45.399 you can see backstage skits. I mean, it's just like SNL And 1606 01:47:45.479 --> 01:47:47.279 I go, oh, all right, I'll check it out because SNL is 1607 01:47:47.319 --> 01:47:50.239 not on Monday night. And I tune in and I go, okay, 1608 01:47:50.319 --> 01:47:55.079 this is bad and and and that audience that you were trying to get is 1609 01:47:55.239 --> 01:47:58.840 not coming back and they're not going to talk very highly of you. So 1610 01:48:00.239 --> 01:48:03.239 losing that you're not gaining new people. Yet you're losing like this person who 1611 01:48:03.319 --> 01:48:08.239 just wrote in and said, this is an embarrassment. And I think that 1612 01:48:08.359 --> 01:48:12.199 philosophy is the people that watch are just going to watch. And if you 1613 01:48:12.399 --> 01:48:15.239 left, that means that you just came around as a fair weather fan. 1614 01:48:15.319 --> 01:48:20.119 Anyways, and it's somewhat true. I think that I've talked to a lot 1615 01:48:20.159 --> 01:48:24.960 of people, including friend, that will sit there and complain about the product 1616 01:48:25.239 --> 01:48:28.840 and then I go, hey, what are you doing April seventh, I'm 1617 01:48:28.920 --> 01:48:33.479 ordering WrestleMania. Oh okay, Well then why would anybody change? So the 1618 01:48:33.600 --> 01:48:36.359 core audience is going to stay, and I think they're trying to bring in 1619 01:48:36.439 --> 01:48:40.760 new eyeballs, but they're doing it the wrong way because they don't have the 1620 01:48:40.880 --> 01:48:46.479 right people there to accomplish that. And I think that they to answer that 1621 01:48:46.600 --> 01:48:53.279 question to make a long answer longer they feel like it's working. And I 1622 01:48:53.359 --> 01:48:59.720 also think maybe the short answer is Vincent Man has no life outside of WW 1623 01:49:00.359 --> 01:49:03.319 and he has a very quirky sense of humor, and people write to that 1624 01:49:03.520 --> 01:49:06.720 in order to please him. It's an indulgence, an indulgence of sorts for 1625 01:49:06.840 --> 01:49:12.640 Vince. Yeah, I agree, I agree, Yeah, yeah yeah. 1626 01:49:13.159 --> 01:49:15.600 Anyway, John, great to have me on the show. I appreciate your 1627 01:49:15.640 --> 01:49:19.520 insight and your opinions as always, and uh, we'll have to have you 1628 01:49:19.600 --> 01:49:23.720 back on sometime down the line, especially when we have another big week like 1629 01:49:23.800 --> 01:49:28.680 this one. Thank you very much for having them. Excellent Thanks to all 1630 01:49:28.680 --> 01:49:31.319 the v ibeers for joining us and for yours, and on that note, 1631 01:49:31.600 --> 01:49:57.640 I will sign up for today. Hey everyone, PW Towards Assistant editor Zach 1632 01:49:57.760 --> 01:50:01.439 Heydorn here to remind you to pick up a copy of my new book. 1633 01:50:01.800 --> 01:50:08.119 It's called Stunning the Wrestling Artistry of Steve Austin. The project takes a long 1634 01:50:08.279 --> 01:50:13.119 look at Austin as an artist in the wrestling ring. Analysis starts from his 1635 01:50:13.239 --> 01:50:17.399 early days in the USWA and then wraps up with his match at WrestleMania thirty 1636 01:50:17.439 --> 01:50:24.399 eight against Kevin Owens, all with analysis on what worked and how his art 1637 01:50:24.600 --> 01:50:28.239 worked to connect with fans. The book is available for pre order right now 1638 01:50:28.560 --> 01:50:31.479 from the team that brought you the Shamrock Barography Hybrid Shoot. Pre Order copies 1639 01:50:31.479 --> 01:50:35.479 are discounted and you can get all the details on my Twitter page. Right 1640 01:50:35.560 --> 01:50:41.720 now, it's at zee Haydorn Torch Again, It's at ze Haydorn Torch to 1641 01:50:41.880 --> 01:50:47.960 preorders Stunning the Wrestling Artistry of Steve Austin. This spring, you need nutritions, 1642 01:50:48.000 --> 01:50:51.199 convenient meals to energize you for warmer active days and to keep you on 1643 01:50:51.359 --> 01:50:56.000 track reaching your goals. You don't want to be waiting around for food delivery 1644 01:50:56.079 --> 01:50:59.479 or cooking when you can be out biking, hiking, playing tennits like me 1645 01:50:59.600 --> 01:51:03.880 playing ball. Factor America's number one ready to eat meal kit, can help 1646 01:51:03.920 --> 01:51:08.479 you fuel up fast. With ready to eat meals delivered straight to your door, 1647 01:51:08.680 --> 01:51:12.319 you'll save time, eat well, and tackle everything on your to do 1648 01:51:12.479 --> 01:51:15.520 list. 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It's twelve pages every week packed with my 1670 01:52:45.560 --> 01:52:49.199 TV reports, along with exclusive features such as my cover story on the top 1671 01:52:49.279 --> 01:52:54.039 story of the week, our pay per view roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, 1672 01:52:54.359 --> 01:52:58.560 exclusive feature length columns from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Shan Radikin, 1673 01:52:59.000 --> 01:53:02.920 Alan Coonahan and Zach Haydorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news and more. 1674 01:53:03.359 --> 01:53:09.840 Pwtorch dot com slash paper copy take a break from screen time and settle 1675 01:53:09.880 --> 01:53:14.199 in every week with a megadosa wrestling news and analysis with a Pro Wrestling Torch 1676 01:53:14.279 --> 01:53:17.600 newsletter paper copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two, you can get 1677 01:53:17.680 --> 01:53:23.279 a full year of home delivery for just ninety nine dollars, or try us 1678 01:53:23.319 --> 01:53:29.640 for an eight week trial subscription. Pwtorch dot com slash paper Copy. Support 1679 01:53:29.720 --> 01:53:32.039 us on Patreon starting at four dollars in ninety nine cents. Get these shows, 1680 01:53:32.079 --> 01:53:36.079 add free and bonus VIP content. That's four dollars and ninety nine cents 1681 01:53:36.159 --> 01:53:42.840 on Patreon. Patreon dot com slash pwtorch vi ip. That's Patreon dot com 1682 01:53:43.199 --> 01:53:46.880 slash Pwtorch VIP. That is the quickest, cheapest and easiest way to support 1683 01:53:47.000 --> 01:53:51.760 us and enjoy these shows with a streamlined listening experience. The weight Keller post 1684 01:53:51.800 --> 01:53:58.720 shows, podcasts, and the Pwtorch Daily casts plus some random VIP bonus content. 1685 01:54:01.600 --> 01:54:05.319 Do you remember when Hulk Hogan shock the world and form the New World 1686 01:54:05.479 --> 01:54:10.960 Order, or when Stonecoat Steve Boston passed down in the Sharpshooter to breath the 1687 01:54:11.039 --> 01:54:15.239 Hitman Heart. I'm Torch contributor Frank Pettianni and I review these shows and many 1688 01:54:15.319 --> 01:54:20.199 more for my exclusive VIP podcast, Pro Wrestling than In Now. Together with 1689 01:54:20.319 --> 01:54:25.239 a rotating chair of co hosts, we go back ten to twenty even thirty 1690 01:54:25.359 --> 01:54:29.199 years, review pay per views from top to bottom, talk about where the 1691 01:54:29.239 --> 01:54:31.760 wrestlers were at the time, and compare what took place then to what is 1692 01:54:31.800 --> 01:54:36.800 taking place now. You get exclusive access to these and other podcasts as part 1693 01:54:36.840 --> 01:54:42.760 of your PW Torch VIP membership, which is compatible with the Apple Podcasts app. 1694 01:54:43.159 --> 01:54:46.800 Visit pwtorch dot com slash go vip for details and sign up for him. 1695 01:54:53.399 --> 01:54:57.600 With some podcast memberships, there's a complicated system of having to enter a 1696 01:54:57.680 --> 01:55:00.079 username and password in advanced settings that it works on some apps but not others. 1697 01:55:00.359 --> 01:55:05.000 That's not the case with Pwtorch VIP membership. We now have a slick 1698 01:55:05.079 --> 01:55:10.079 setup where you're a single click away when you go VIP from having your podcast 1699 01:55:10.159 --> 01:55:15.079 feed automatically generated on Apple Podcasts. 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It's quick, it's easy, it's convenient, and we think it's 1709 01:55:51.680 --> 01:56:00.359 worth it. Pwtorch dot com slash go vi ip. Two twelve, NXT 1710 01:56:00.560 --> 01:56:05.560 transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand you see today. On the 1711 01:56:05.640 --> 01:56:12.119 Torch VIP podcast NXT eight years Back, we'll be taking a weekly look at 1712 01:56:12.199 --> 01:56:16.880 this page in NXT's early history. Join Kellywells and me Tom Stout from PWT 1713 01:56:17.039 --> 01:56:21.079 Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track 1714 01:56:21.199 --> 01:56:26.560 NXT's rising talents and why they did or didn't work out. Exclusively for PW 1715 01:56:26.680 --> 01:56:35.479 Torch VIP members. Every Sunday night, catch Wrestling Night in America on pwtrs 1716 01:56:35.560 --> 01:56:41.039 dailycast dot com, hosted by me Pwtrch columnist Gregg Parks. Each week, 1717 01:56:41.079 --> 01:56:44.039 I'll welcome a co host from the Torch family to discuss the big shows in 1718 01:56:44.119 --> 01:56:46.800 pro wrestling. Taking your calls and emails, you can listen live most week's 1719 01:56:46.840 --> 01:56:50.840 beginning at eight pm Eastern. On Sunday nights with a WWE or Impact pay 1720 01:56:50.880 --> 01:56:54.319 per view, we go on the air. At the conclusion of that pay 1721 01:56:54.319 --> 01:56:56.680 per view, you can listen live, but of course, the full show 1722 01:56:56.760 --> 01:57:00.680 is available for download on demand anytime shortly after an air. Visit pwtorch dailycast 1723 01:57:00.720 --> 01:57:03.960 dot com and click the live stream link to find the next scheduled live show 1724 01:57:04.039 --> 01:57:09.720 link. Search Pwtorch and Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to subscribe Wrestling Night 1725 01:57:09.720 --> 01:57:21.880 in America every Sunday Pwtorch Dailycast dot com. 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That's our free show that's been around forever, and 1744 01:58:35.880 --> 01:58:41.319 also the Pwtorch VIP podcast logo. There is a free show every week, 1745 01:58:41.479 --> 01:58:43.880 so subscribe you and if you don't, plan to go VIP and get a 1746 01:58:43.920 --> 01:58:46.880 sample of our VIP tier programming. But if you click subscribe, then you'll 1747 01:58:47.000 --> 01:58:51.760 become a VIP member instantly with a three day free trial, after which your 1748 01:58:51.800 --> 01:58:55.439 Apple account will be charged, so you don't need to take out your credit 1749 01:58:55.479 --> 01:58:57.800 card, debit card, or go anywhere else. If you listen to our 1750 01:58:57.840 --> 01:59:02.319 free shows on Apple Podcasts, you are five seconds away from being a VP 1751 01:59:02.479 --> 01:59:05.720 member with a three day free trial, so we invite you to check it 1752 01:59:05.760 --> 01:59:10.479 out. 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This is Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks and XT. 1759 01:59:44.720 --> 01:59:47.239 Every Thursday, you can hear me in My Game of Idiots, Tom Staff, 1760 01:59:47.279 --> 01:59:50.960 who shares thoughts from the live tapings, and Torch recapp or Nate Lindbergh, 1761 01:59:51.359 --> 01:59:56.000 as well as a rotating cast of guests cover the matches and events in 1762 01:59:56.199 --> 02:00:00.880 NXT live on USA Network. Search PW Torch in app podcasts or your podcast 1763 02:00:01.000 --> 02:00:06.319 app to subscribe or listen on demand and see the entire PW torch Dailycast schedule 1764 02:00:06.640 --> 02:00:16.720 at pwtorch dailycast dot com. Cheers need an extra dose of positivity in your 1765 02:00:16.760 --> 02:00:21.840 wrestling podcasts, will come join me Alan fell Over in the Progress Paradise at 1766 02:00:21.880 --> 02:00:28.079 potrch VIP as we bask on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some 1767 02:00:28.239 --> 02:00:31.199 of the great matches and shows from around the world, be at the US, 1768 02:00:31.560 --> 02:00:35.960 Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestling's past in 1769 02:00:36.000 --> 02:00:40.920 the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows such as the We love 1770 02:00:41.000 --> 02:00:45.680 Lyger series celebrating the glorious career of Juician thunder Lighter and I was there when 1771 02:00:45.800 --> 02:00:49.399 shows where our guests will join me to talk about a classic bout that they 1772 02:00:49.439 --> 02:00:54.439 were in attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots of it 1773 02:00:54.680 --> 02:01:00.359 at the Progress Paradise. Detailed PWF Torch VIP subscription information and a list of 1774 02:01:00.479 --> 02:01:04.960 all the VIP benefits is available at pwe Torch vipinfo dot com. And yes, 1775 02:01:05.279 --> 02:01:11.920 all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcasts apps on iPhone and Android devices, 1776 02:01:12.479 --> 02:01:15.359 or you can stream them directly from our odd free VIP mobile site. 1777 02:01:15.800 --> 02:01:26.319 See you in the Paradise. Longing for some nostalgia, or maybe you want 1778 02:01:26.319 --> 02:01:30.159 to learn some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties passcast every Friday on the 1779 02:01:30.199 --> 02:01:35.640 PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alexanpatrick will transport you thirty years into the past 1780 02:01:36.119 --> 02:01:41.479 by taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow news from 1781 02:01:41.479 --> 02:01:45.279 the WWF and WCW and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real 1782 02:01:45.399 --> 02:01:50.439 time as the Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties passcasts every 1783 02:01:50.479 --> 02:02:05.479 Friday form the PW Torch Dailycast Feed. Do you remember when Hulkogan shocked the 1784 02:02:05.560 --> 02:02:10.840 world and formed the New World order, or when Stonecoat Steve Auston passed down 1785 02:02:10.880 --> 02:02:15.640 on the sharp Shooter to break the Hitman heart. I'm Torch contributor Frank Pettianni, 1786 02:02:15.000 --> 02:02:19.680 and I reviewed these shows and many more for my exclusive VIP podcast, 1787 02:02:19.800 --> 02:02:24.600 Pro Wrestling Than and Now. Together with a rotating chair of co hosts, 1788 02:02:24.880 --> 02:02:28.800 we go back ten, twenty, even thirty years, review pay per views 1789 02:02:28.880 --> 02:02:31.159 from top to bottom, talk about where the wrestlers were at the time, 1790 02:02:31.439 --> 02:02:35.119 and compare what took place then to what is taking place now. You get 1791 02:02:35.159 --> 02:02:41.800 exclusive access to these and other podcasts as part of your PW Torch VIP membership, 1792 02:02:42.079 --> 02:02:45.800 which is compatible with the Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com slash 1793 02:02:45.840 --> 02:02:48.479 go vip for details and sign up for him