Longing for some nostalgia, or maybe you want to learn some wrestling history,
don't miss the nineties Pass cast Every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.
Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by taking you
through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow news from the WWF and
WCW, and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties passcasts every Friday for
the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you
the Wade Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for wades and interview with one
of pro wrestling's newsmakers. In today's Interview Classic, we jump back ten years
to my interview with x WWWE creative team member John Piermarini. We talked to
WrestleMania twenty nine, the raucous crowd at RAW that week. I'll look back
at legacy including Cody Rhodes, Randy Orton, and of course Teddy Biassi Jr.
And we also had to look ahead to WrestleMania thirty and more. As
always, we had live calls and emails and insight into the mind and backstage
demeanor and practices of Vince McMahon. John was a frequent guest during this era
for a reason on my podcasts, and you'll hear it here on our ten
years Ago Interview Classic Flashback from April twelve, twenty thirteen, and it is
Today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast for Thursday, April twentieth, twenty twenty three.
Tomorrow we'll have the follow up show the Flagship from ten years ago with
Jason Powis. Look Welcome to dp Wporch Livecast. I am Way Keller,
editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter since nineteen eighty seven and also
pewtorch dot com since nineteen ninety nine and now the PW Torch apps for the
last three or four years free on iPhone, Android, Amazon, Kindle,
Fire and Windows phones and many international carriers. Just do a search for PW
Torch and also for the last three and a half years or going on three
and a half the PW Torch Livecast. We are here five days a week
and sometimes six on Big after Big pay per views, I host on Tuesdays
with Jason Powell of the website pro Wrestling dot Net and on Fridays, it
is Interview Friday, and in about five minutes, I will be joined by
former WWE Creative Team member John Piermarini, a friend of the show for a
couple of years now. Actually it's probably going on three years since since he
first appeared on the show. He spent two years working for WWE on the
Creative Team, or the better part of two years in two thousand and nine
and two ten, and he was around a couple of WrestleManias, and he
was around for a lot of raws. And what I'm definitely interested in talking
to him about, and we've gotten some email questions already about this is how
does Vince McMahon and the rest of the team who are involved behind the scenes
in WWE react to crowds like we saw on Monday Nights who was a raucous
crowd when raw was over, like a lot of people. I was just
going nuts. I Mean, I thought this was just an amazing wrestling experience
to watch on television and had to be, as many have testified, an
amazing experience in person in the building in East Rutherford, New Jersey at ISSOD
Center. So I want to find out from John how Vince McMahon, the
creative team and management react to various types of crowds, really quiet crowds and
really raucous crowds. But like Monday night, I thought, Wow, this
was great, made for great TV. Now the further out I get a
little more sober, a little further away from the adrenaline rush of oh my
god, I can't believe what I'm watching or what I just saw. There's
some pros and cons to it, and some pros and cons to a crowd
quote hijacking a show. The pros clearly are the level of energy on that
show we haven't seen. And I mean there's been some crowds in England that
have been really good and you know, crazy and loud, and there's been
some other crowds. Obviously during the cm punk in Chicago against John Cena,
that was wild, but that was for a wrestler in particular who was a
hometown guy and he was really over and they were anti another guy who was
the top star. This was different and it was fascinating to watch play out.
And you know, we talked last week on the show about the boring
chant a team to throw John Cena off a little bit two weeks ago on
Raw, and then this last week the crowd at the EISAD Center did,
among many many many things, meant chant boring at John Cena. And so
it shows that something can catch on, especially if it seems like a wrestler
is affected by it a little bit. So I'm curious how crowd to react
going forward, including watching SmackDown to night just to see if there's anything on
TV that that is a residual effect of it. So the pro side is
it makes WWE seem like a really overproduct that the crowd is just into and
you can't turn the channel when you're watching it, and it helped create a
star. Is he going to be a novelty act like Santino or Zach Ryder
or is he going to be something bigger than that? That remains to be
seen. But Fondongo, he became kind of a cult wrestler overnight and validated
time so far that fencic Mann has invested in him. But what about reacting
the way that they did to John cnn Rybeck. Well, the crowd kind
of or ww WE kind of put the crowd put themselves in a position to
have the fans react in an unpredictable way because Raybeck and Scene are both baby
faces. Same thing with Shamus, but in a different way. They put
Shamus and Norton in a bad position by not having a true he all in
a true faith, and it put the fans in a position to entertain themselves
since they didn't feel all that strongly about who won. So I think WW
has to learn a lot of lessons, or can learn a lot of lessons
from this, and I think we'll see going forward what those what some of
those lessons turn out to be, and that will be dictated by future crowds.
So that is absolutely one of the main subjects that I want to talk
about on today's show, obviously, and we have opened foam lines for John
Primerini. We want to talk more about Wresslemania, John, James Caldwell,
who's John John Primmerini. Of course, James Caldwell and Sean Radkin yesterday talked
a lot about Wressomania and raw And also I'm willing to take some calls on
impact, although I don't know that John watch the show, so we probably
want to stay focused on WWE unless it's a quick thought or question on last
night's show. When I say that only because it did air last night,
it was live, and it was one of their bigger shows, I do
want to note ratings are in for that show, and it's not good news
for TNA. This is a show that they built up and they started off
with an awful first quarter hour rating of point seven five. I do not
know what happened to cause such a low rating, but the good news is
it grew from there. Not it grew, but it didn't end up much
higher than what the average has been lately. Went from point seven five to
point seven nine to point nine one, down a little bit too point eight
four in the fourth quarter, but there were two commercial breaks, I believe
in that quarter. Then in the beginning of the second hour it jumped up
to a point nine six, and then a point nine eight and then a
one point zero six in the main event at least peaked with a one point
one three rating that averaged out to a point nine nine with one point two
million viewers. So that's something that James Caldwell will be breaking down and writing
more about in in his story on pwtorch dot com, and I'll have more
to say about it also on the Kelor hot Line this weekend. So lots
of cool stuff to talk about now. Our phone numbers here are six four,
six, seven, two one nine eight two eight six four six seven
two one nine eight two eight and the email you can email me right now
is PW Torch livecast at gmail dot com. PW Torch Livecast at gmail dot
com. And I'll be checking for email questions for John Piermarini as the show
progresses. We only have two people on hold right now, so if you
want to get in line, we'll get to pretty quickly. I know sometimes
our wait times on this show are incredibly long. That is, at the
moment not the case, so chime right in if you want to talk about
Monday's Raw or the pay per view. Now. I'm assuming the two people
on hold probably have questions for John. But as we await John calling in,
he just had one thing come up that's going to cause him to have
to call in five or ten minutes into the show, and he should be
with us any moment now. But if you have a question for John,
wait till he comes on the show before calling unless you just want to get
in line right away. But if I go to you and you just want
to wait for John to be on the show, no harm and just say
so, and I'll put you back on hold and we'll go back to you.
But for the moment, I will go to Eric code two one six
first and then eight six two two one six. Welcome to the show.
Please take your name and where you're from to one six brand. Okay,
Brian, I'm putting you on hold because you're giving getting a lot of feedback.
That's where I'm gonna bust a few ear drums. If there's anything you
can do to get better reception on your phone, or if you just want
to hang up and call right back, maybe you'll get a better connection.
Brian. But it was really there's a lot of background noise and static there.
Um. But I'll look for two one six to pop up again.
Please call back if you can. Okay, Um, let's go instead now
to eight six two eight six two. Thanks for calling. Please state your
name in where you're from. Hey, wait, hey, Kylan, how
are you doing? Um? Well, I would like to stay on hold
for John and damn thank resolutely, Like I said, no problem, we
like that people are calling up for our guests. Oh shoot, um,
okay, kylin, I hip, I'm not used to uh putting people in
Oh no, I did put you on hold successfully? Okay? Good?
I thought I just hung up on you, but I didn't. All right,
so let me let me save your name in the queue, and uh
we'll try two and six one more time. Let's get that backround. Noises
any better? Two one six? Yeah? Hey, bright, it's brand
Way. Hey, it's Brandon from Cleveland. My question is work for John?
So I can wait? If I absolutely glad we got people eager,
eager to talk to John. Um, I will try try this one more
time and uh go to five on six, five on six? You want
ask question to me? Or do you want to wait for John? Oh
no, I'll give you a question that way. It's Casey long Oland New
Sure. Thanks Casey. What have you got for me? Um? With
all the speculation on whether ride back turned heel or if it was just to
go up against John Cena, do you see any way that they give him
a stone cold character where just nobody is safe around him. He's just as
ding you can trust them me. He goes after anybody in every body.
I think they do I and I don't. I don't agree Casey with the
idea that they turned him heal on Monday. Um, And like somebody on
my Twitter accounts said, how can you turn someone hel when everybody cheers for
what he did? And I don't think Monday's crowd is a great example of
that. I don't think you can hold um people accountable or you can't hold
accountable for for that turn um not working in front of that crowd, because
as the announcers even said, it was kind of backwards day or bizarro day.
Um. And not every crowd it is going to be like that.
They're not going to have that kind of international hardcore contingency that are you know,
have all this pent up energy from a stadium show the night before when
they really weren't hurt and they were cold, and then the most hardcore fans
stayed an extra day and filled that building and you know they're they're the ones
who bought the tickets to the second show, you know, the second show
of the weekend. Um, you know those are the hardcore fans. So
I don't Yeah, I don't think. Well, so I'll address the second
party question too, So I don't think that that that crowd should be a
big judgment on what the mainstream fans thought. And Bruce Mitchell and I and
the Bruce Mitchellidio Show this weekend, close to two hours of the Bruce Mitchellidio
Show, half the discussion or more was about that crowd on Monday and putting
kind of a historical perspective on it and the pros and cons of it.
And you know, one of the discussions was how many fans sitting at home
on TV watch that it felt very differently than the crowd reaction and was that
good or bad for the product? With ry Back, the question is,
does ww we want to have a character who's cast as a baby face where
nobody's safe, and how do you how do you work that character without,
like you said, Casey, imitating Steve Austen and having him look like not
only a derivative of Goldberg, now a derivative of stone Cold. But that
said, some good ideas are worth repeating in a different way in a different
era. If you didn't repeat ideas from the past, wrestling shows would be
pretty empty because everything you see has in some way been done before. So
Casey we're gonna say, oh, yeah, no, I I agree,
it's just a stone call. Was such a unique character, you know that
that he was a face, but he would turn on a face with no
problem and get a bigger hop. Yeah, you know what like lightening bottle.
You know. I would say too though that that was something that he
did later. And like I really really really did not like when he gave
like, um was that stacy was it Stacy cable? He gave a stunn
or tooth um. I wasn't a fan of that. I thought he started
kind of seeming, you know, giving unprovoked, m unprovoked h stunners to
people I thought was actually at the tail end of his run of being effective.
I liked him better when he went after people for a reason and not
just to get kind of a pop for doing a move against against somebody who
was kind of helpless in Volna. But but um, so I think Dribex
should take a spot and I think you could book him in a way that
would that would work case he appreciate the call. Do you want to do
you want to come back on in a few minutes with when John as wizard?
You want to me to put to hang up on you or put gen
hole. Yeah, you could put me on hold. I'll come down.
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Now I hear at the chimes, that means John purmarine is with me,
John, welcome to the show. Has a goment good. I already gave
you an introduction that you did not hear, so everyone is up steed.
You worked behind the scenes in WWE on the creative team, um and uh
in most of two thousand and nine and most of two thousand and ten.
I believe that's right. Yep, yep, And so you're around for two
WrestleManias, I believe, and also worked closely at times with a number of
wrestlers who are still on the roster, of course, including John Cena,
and certainly you worked around Vince Icmahan. What a fascinating two days I know
you were at you had a chance to tend Wrestlemanian person before we get to
Monday's raw. Um and as we let phone callers still up the phone lines
to ask you questions, UM, what what was your impression of WrestleMania as
a show, uh, from a business perspective and also just as a live
experience to uh, to see the event at that at that magnitude, So
I gotta be honest as far as a WrestleMania goes, I didn't I didn't
see a lot of it. Um, oh, okay, I saw I
saw uh. Let's see, I saw them, um Slater del Rio obviously,
I saw um uh some of rock Cina. I saw a Punk Undertaker,
um. And then I think I saw a Brock like the Hunter Brock.
You have a majority of that. And then yeah, okay, so
I guess I saw the big ones. Really, no one's talking about the
other stuff, so you don't you don't have to worry too much. Um.
Yeah, yeah, So what were your thoughts on what you saw?
And also, you know you can speak up to the booking also, yeah,
you know, I thought, Um, I don't know, it didn't
really feel like a WrestleMania as far as like the booking win. Um,
A lot of rematches, um, a lot of a lot of I mean,
I know that they did a pretty good job in building it up,
but I didn't really think that the stories were strong. And I know that
a lot of people were against the plump Undertaker story and the way that they
went about that. I was actually a fan of it. I actually thought
that put although I believe Punk deserved to be the guy in there would take
her at Mania, I didn't feel like it was a sort of a fresh
WrestleMania matchup. But I think that they did what they did with the story,
like really sort of turned it into one, at least for me.
But it sounds like I'm in the minority, Rock Sina, and again,
you know, sometimes I read what you have to say, and although I
agree with you again in um they booked it maybe the way that it should
have been booked last year. It did it didn't give me much to to
look forward to as far as I've got to see this this match again.
And I think most of it had to do with the fact that I don't
think they properly told the John John Cena story from last year to this year,
which was, you know, my life has been in a tailspin because
I lost you. But in reality, I mean he beat Brock Lessner.
It wasn't that bad, uh, And I don't think that actually they reversed
history um WW officially moved to Brock match before WrestleMania. Did they really well?
But I mean a storyline wise, they almost have you know, I
mean, you're right, how do you lose to Rock and then beat the
former USC heavyweight champion and tell the story? So they actually just ignored that
that happened conveniently, but I know what you mean as far as that goes.
Yeah, so you know, again, I don't want to go on
forever just about that, but I feel like, you know, if that
was the story that they were going to go with, which could have been
really good, you know, and then towards the Anti kind of gained momentum
by beating punks, they could have told that story, but they didn't have
the backstory to really back it up. Hunter Brock, I don't know.
I think that. I think, if you're gonna have these guys there,
and again, it was an argument I had when I was there, when
we had Sean and Hunter and Batista and Jericho and guys that we knew weren't
going to be there much so longer, wouldn't you have these guys? And
God, I feel like it used to be this way when I was a
kid watching you utilize those guys to create new stars. So what they did
was they took everyone that they had that was established and they put them against
each other and didn't really help anybody. I don't think Sina, I don't
think Sina beating Rock really did anything for him, you know, I mean
bragging rights as far as what his character can say or how wwe can then
go push him. But I don't think it really helped them. You know,
they had Hunter who went against Rock, and they could have utilized both
guys against younger talent. Jericho they did. Jericho, they did. I'll
give him that, But I feel like I feel like these guys have a
limited lifespan left as characters in the WW universe, and I feel like they're
not taking advantage of it to really help somebody out. And it really showed
when we lost HBK and we lost a Hunter for a while when I was
there and Batista and Jericho, and we had really nothing to show for it
with guys walking away from that in Hey, you know, I got rid
of these guys or I beat them. And it's like the I compared to
the lot to the heavyweight division in boxing. You know, you could have
a guy be a world champion today, but no one will sit there and
go okay, And I wonder how he would have measured up against the greats.
You know, clich Goo, no one. No one wants to see
clich Go, Tyson, clich Goo, al Uh, Clichko, holy Field.
You know, so That's kind of where it's at with them, where
people I think even go all right, seem as the big star, but
seem is not really the rock. He's not stone cold, he's not whole
COVID, you know. And I think that they could actually give those guys
that rub if they Randy cour Rock, Lesner, uh John now Brock fizzled
out, you know, to his diverticulitis. But um, but you know,
people would have wondered how would co tutor against Lesner, And they at
the very end of Cotour's career, matched him against Lesner and Lesner one and
that helped put him over. That's I think what you're talking about with wanting
to see something and I know MMA better in boxing, and your analogy works
too, But that's what you're saying, you know, let's get Hunter in
there and have him put over a dull Siegler. Let's have a Rock in
there, not against somebody like Sena who's at in the last third of his
prime and he's had a good run. He's not he's still in his prime,
but really put some try to put somebody new over, and that's what
it seems like. They're not even looking for that and Jericho Fandango, as
you pointed out, is the exception that proves the rule you're speaking of.
Yeah, exactly, And you know, I think UFC has been so great
at doing that. They see that the uh, the Keeto ortis is the
Chuck Liddell's at this point, you know, like Van Hens, Dan Henderson,
They're seeing these guys have main values, but they're on their way out
and they and they don't have a title run left in them. So what
do they do. Let's match them against these up and coming guys and and
make stars out of them and gives the dream match job, give the dream
match that connects the tour. It's like even and that's twenty years ago back
issues of the Torch that VFP members are able to read. Uh and uh.
Scott Hall actually talked about this with me a few weeks ago in the
live cast when I don't know if you heard it, John, but I
did four and a half hours with Scott Hall and Sean Waltman a few weeks
ago. As it was amazing interview. UM and Scott talked about you know,
being match against Randy Savage when he first got to WWE, and you
know that Randy was a long time marquee, uh legacy established star in Raizer.
Ramon was his character that bevins cmahn was in love with and he matched
him up to give Scott Hall. You know that that that that evidence to
current fans that this guy can hang with Randy, not just competitively but star
power wise. He can share the stage and look like he belongs. And
that's that's It's not about winning and losing entirely or even mostly, I would
say, it's standing in the ring and looking like you belong. And that's
that's what you know, people have to evaluate, whether in karn about it
or just in their guts. Did von Domo look like he belonged with Jericho?
And you know, johny Kursky looked good against Jericho, like that was
a good match and he looked like he belonged in there. And and that's
a that was a test with Rybeck initially when they actually started putting Raybeck against
competitive guys. Does he look like he belongs in the ring against Jon far
and he did so, and see I'm punk went through that too, So
some guys have benefited from that. But WrestleMania, John seems like a platform
and I want to ask you about during the two years you were there,
it seems like a platform or WWE isn't thinking about building future stars. They're
thinking about maximizing the buy rate. And they've made the decision, I think,
And tell me if you think I'm wrong that they think WrestleMania should be
on top the biggest stars as the biggest stars, and they'll worry about building
future stars the next day on Raw or the next you know, the next
couple of months. But WrestleMania is all about maximizing the buy rate, and
they will not risk some guy who's not over at the proven top draw being
in one of those top spots. Yeah, you know, I'm okay with
that, as long as you know they understand that and correct me if I'm
long that. I mean, what are they doing the other eleven months on
page for view one hundred thousand and two hundred thousand buys? I mean,
you're not getting such a huge audience as long as you take to guys like
the scene of rocks and triple h's and rock lesseners and undertakers and who have
rest and realizing those guys properly on Raw to build these guys and sure,
if you want to use WrestleManias as you know, the big card where the
big names go at each other and the dream matches, that's fine. But
I don't think they're utilizing the other year. But you said a good point
with the What's what Scott Halla said was you know he was so into the
Razor Remote character that he put him against watch them as well. The key
point is that he was really into the Raising Remote character, and I think
he's really into this Fandango character. So he's he's putting trust in himself,
you know, he goes, that's that's my creation. I put my trust
in myself. We're going to push that. Yep. Um. He might
look at the rest of the roster and go, yeah, you know,
nothing really there. So let's let's make the almighty dollar and we'll worry about
it later. And sometimes it just becomes too late. You know, you
lose the Batista as you lose the Triple A, because you lose the Seans
and you go, okay, well how do we make these guys? And
then another thing I used to say was okay, well we're not going to
do that, which leads to you know, say, Miz winning money in
the bank. Well, you only have you only have so many keys to
like really get a guy over instantly, you know, and one of those
things is Royal Rumble money in the bank, and you need to put the
right guys in that position to go. Okay, Miz is a mid card
guy, Golf is a mid card guy. Alberto del Rio is a mid
card guy. The second you gave him that briefcase or you give him Royal
Rumble, the perception of them become main event guys. And there's if you
don't utilize those tools, you're really missing out. And I feel like having,
you know, the John Cenas go over in the Royal Rumble, you're
you're you're really sort of limiting yourself on what you could do because I don't
think you could use a Alberto del Rio to get a Dolf Ziggler over right
now. You need that that Chris Jericho, you need that Shawn Michaels to
be able to elevate those guys. Otherwise it's just using the boxing analogy.
It's it's using those guys to become the next glitch go and then people just
go. You know, remember when they had Brett Hart, Remember when they
had Ultimate Warrior Man. Those were some stars. Now it's just yeah,
you know, it's Dolf Ziggler or it's whoever it may be at the time.
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check it out Factor Meals dot com, slash Wade fifty great good John.
I want to talk about raw but I have a feeling some callers will talk
about that. So let's take some calls and that so people aren't not all
too long, and then if they don't cover some territory I want to with
you. We'll talk about the remarkable episode of Ron Monday with that raucous crowd
at Ison Center. Let's let's go first to Erico two one six. Brandon
from Cleveland is with us. Brandon, please stage, you don't don't teach
your name and where you're from. We know who you are and where you're
from. What's your question for John? All right? Hey John? Um?
I had two questions. My first question was, Um, since it's
been a little over two years now, can you finally left the cut out
the bat? No? Well, what the plan was, But you know,
John, I was actually had you if you weren't late for the show.
John, I was actually gonna preface by going this show, that question
is off limits because we've covered it before and you get pelted with it every
time. But since I didn't block, since I didn't say that, it's
only fair game. Address that however you want, John, But that's it,
then we're gonna move on. Yeah, there's there's certain things. Yeah,
we'll go back to Brandon. I'm just saying we'll quickly. Yeah,
I don't blame anybody for asking that question. Um, but a couple of
things on that one, just so for future reference. One. Um,
I think I've I think in my time in talking with you and having the
website and all that, I've given away a plethora of kidbit and Um,
there's just certain things that I just whatever the reason they be, out of
respect for them or just out of respects for not wanting to get in trouble.
Um, I'm not going to go, you know there with the anonymous
GM or nexus and uh uh you know, like I said, maybe one
day if I decide that, you know, I wanted to do something,
then then I have my uh, I have my key piece to build around.
So and also John, I in your in your defense too, Um,
you said from the beginning when they reveal it, you'll say if it
was something different, and and you've said that it was something different, and
uh, it had been reported that it was Triple H and you commented that
on a previous show. Um, but it was one of those situations where
they didn't play it out as was expected or you know, as it was
expected originally. Um and uh, but you you, having left the company,
didn't want to reveal a trade secret that will get you in trouble.
Um that was at that scale. And so that's where people got first.
But you did say you'd reveal it when they revealed it, and we talked
about it, and there was a report that Triple H was going to be
the guy. But you haven't gotten into any of the details that you knew,
Um, that you knew in terms of how it was going to play
out, because that might be something they want to go back to. So
yeah, fair enough. I mean here, here's where I'll say too,
is that you know, if it was done and done then then um.
But but but I can just say this that there there is probably with both
stories, I mean, all that could still come back. So again,
you know, I just there's a lot of things that a lot of people
know about a lot of things and not everything comes out and I just you
know, yeah, fair enough. No, we got that all the way.
So if that's why you're on hold or you're about to email, let's
stay away from that just And I say that only because if you're really curious
about it, you can go back to other shows. John has been on
UM the John's been on the show numerous times in the last few years and
uh, and we've talked a decent amount about it in the past, So
it's a it's a good excuse to go into the archives and search for John
Primarini either on the PW Torch Livecast app on iPhone or at at PW torch
livecast dot com, which is the home of this show, and you can
listen to I think every show that we've ever done on that page by filtering
through or clicking through, so you can find other shows with John, especially
if you're new to the show, and enjoy what you hear on today's show.
I definitely encourage you to go back and listen. I did a what
was it about? Was it three or five? I think it was five
hours of a torch talk we did originally right John. Yeah, it was
very long. Yeah, and so if you know now when we do the
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close to five hours in a Torch talk that was that was exclusive four VIP
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right, let's go back Brandon at a fault question of Brandon. Your phone
connection is pretty bad against so UM. Once you have your question, I
put the back on hold right away. Yeah, my second question. I
created a huge push for social media with the w W E YEP and John
Up doing social media that I'm on in Facebook, but I just supposed to
carry it. How much I can put un put into any uh you know
closed or they get through Twitter or through Facebook or through any of the social
media today if they hear enough book the same day or friend and I gotta
put you on hold the clicking is just not it's just awful. Um.
So we got we got enough of the subject there. Um, but I
couldn't. I couldn't take it any longer. Um. Yeah, the real
the social media push, John, I'm trying to match up time wise.
It seemed like they really got into Twitter after you left. Yeah, I
know that the Uh, I know talent was on there. I know that.
Uh. I don't think they were really looking that much into it at
the time. I know that. I think they have somebody running it now.
I don't know exactly who, but it'd be tough for me to answer
that question. I mean, I think he was wondering how much do they
look into it when when talents tweeting and stuff like that, Right, is
that probably what he wanted? Yeah, i'd like how much? Yeah,
how much does Vince direct what is said? And how much does he react
to what's said if it wasn't approved ahead of time, for instance, and
someone's maybe that's something that Vince would would not have approved of. Yeah,
I don't think that there is that safety net. I think it's just once
it's out there, they deal with it at that time. If someone even
spots it and again, that's just your speculation, because I know that the
guys were on it when I was there, and I know that it wasn't
like it wasn't being policed, and it wasn't It wasn't like, hey,
I'm going to send out this tweet before I do, who do I need
to run it by. But there's a code of conduct, and that's called
common sense, and if you screw up, you're probably going to be in
trouble. That's bread code of conduct. So they kind of hope that people
use common sense on there. I haven't heard of an official guidebook or anything
like that, but maybe something's come out since some people made some mistakes.
But you know, in a way too, John, I mean social media
and Twitter accounts for wrestlers, it's almost away for Vincent man to kind of
figure out how much common sense some of these guys have, and if they
give a bad common sense, maybe that's a good a good way to find
out if he doesn't really want to put faith in them. You know,
if like zac Ryder, I think has done himself a tremendous amount of good
and then it kind of flipped into some tremendous amount of bad um he's very
active. But then when he didn't get a push and started whining, you
know, whining and complaining on on Twitter about it, I think it actually
went too far and it seemed a little like insubordination, public in subordination,
and I think that actually has worked against his TV time since then. You're
probably right. You know, one thing that I was always sort of against
UM was I always wondered why, and I might even brought this up on
his show. I always wondered why these guys would go on there under their
their gimmick and talk like they were a normal guy. You know, you
don't see uh, you don't see uh uh. You know, what's his
name, Michael Hall that plays Dexter. You don't see him make a Dexter
account and then you know, show pictures of him and his wife out on
the beach, right, and you know, if he makes a Dexter Morgan
account and he plays Dexter Morgan, whoever it is is running it, and
then he has a Micael Hall Twitter and he does Michael Hall stuff, so
you know, and I always thought they should have separated that. If you're
going to go on there as fan dango, I think you need to be
fan Dango, and I think that it could. It could benefit you,
you know, going on there and playing your character and finding your own way
to tell stories and to and to further stories. But when you go on
there and you take away the appeal of being this you know, this character,
and you become a normal person and it normalizes you, I think that
it takes away from you know, going in there and escaping reality and trying
to believe this guy is who he is. I totally agree, you know,
and like there's some people who are kind of who they are, like
Randy Orton, um, you know, like I think he could go on
Twitter and be him. I think he's enough himself on TV that he wouldn't
necessarily need to separate accounts. But at the same time, I don't think
we need to hear about Randy Orton plugging up his toilet at home or the
Regigerator pairman is late and he's pissed off about it. Like, I think
it humanizes them in a way that actually doesn't work towards the character that they
play on TV. But but if you know, like people, I think
with somebody this weekend, I don't know if it's at the Hall of fame
or what the context was, but they said Undertaker, please never go on
Twitter. You know, like there's just certain people who shouldn't go on Twitter,
and Undertaker is the ultimate example of that, you know. I mean,
there's just there's absolutely no reason for I'm never go on Twitter. So
well, listen, everybody likes a pat on the back, so I think
that it's it's sort of a it's sort of an ego thing for everybody.
I'm not even just saying the talent for for anybody to go on anything social
media. I mean, I honestly don't care what you ate for lunch,
but apparently people think that you do or you know, look, and I'm
guilty of it. I'll go on there. I took a picture with Donald
Trump at Rest Flemania. I put it on my Facebook or Instagram, and
I I think it went on Twitter and my Facebook too, And you know
what, does anybody care except I thought it was cool to tell people that
I took a picture with Donald Trump. Yeah, you know, I put
his hair. Did he mess it up? No? Did you mess up
his hair? Like if I ever took a picture with him, I would
just I would like to pretend I would find some excuse to mess with his
hair and then have the picture taken. I don't know what would happen.
I'd probably get like, you know, shot by one of his secrets,
you know, security people. I was I was trying too hard to get
on the Apprentice to one of them. Would you like to be on that
show? Yeah, of course, I think it'd be cool. I think
I mean, coming from the reality TV background and being able to establish characters
and stuff like that, I think I could find my way finagling my way
into the finals of that one quin Milton will go to Kylan, who I
know was on hold um. I mentioned the sale for v a few minute
ago. I gave the place to go pw Torch dot com slash go VIP.
If you go to that page and you sign up for the monthly v
IP option, the the coupon code to get half off through the end of
today is lowercase sale number twenty nine lowercase ABC, so sale twenty nine ABC
and that's our coupon code again that expires at the end of today. So
if you want to get five dollars off half price for a full month of
VIP, and here all five hours of John Permerney Torch Talk and access to
the b at the after show. The previous times he's been on, along
with that four and a half hour Scott holland Sean Waltman interview I talked about,
and the Jake Roberts interview, and the Dixie Carter interview and Matt Hardy
and Dustin Rhodes and that's just naming some of them from this year. And
the pre Christmas Paul Bear interview. It was a Friday before Christmas, the
late Paul Bear. William Moody was on for a few hours and we did
I think a grant told about seven hours with him in two different interviews on
in December in August of last year. Some of the favorite interviews, based
on feedback from listeners that I've ever done in twenty five years are Scott Hall
and Paul Bear, and together it's like twelve hours of content, so definitely
worth checking those up. All right, um, let's go to Kylan has
been patiently on hold and get his question, and then on deck two one
seven six oh one in seven seven three if you want to talk to John
Fimarini x WWE creative team member in twenty nine and twenty ten. The number
is six four six seven two one nine two weight. One way that you
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about what you like about the programs in the comments section. Thank you so
much. Go ahead, Kyland, please go out at your question for John.
I have to we just right. Crowds like that if they have to
question number one. And being that you are big posters of pleas Jack Swaggers,
I use disappointed by the lower the lower pushes they have received. Thanks
Kylin, yep, appreciate it. Uh, John, we were getting some
wind I think on your cell phone mic too, So if you if you
sense winners, but put your thumb over the mouth piece when you're not talking,
and then we'll build out here our guest a little bit better. If
if if that's convenient for you. Um, yeah, the uh. I
don't know if you got to two questions. I don't know if the listeners
did, but I listened to real closely. UM Kylan want to know did
you ever write? And this is a great question. I want to ask
you this too. Did did you guys ever write specifically with the town you
were in in mind? Did that ever affect your writing? And? Number
two, your thoughts on what's been going on with Jack Swager? Um?
Okay, the crowds um. To be perfectly honest, I didn't even remember
where I was the week before, so for us to go back to another
city, I wouldn't even have remembered what the crowds were doing. Um,
something like last Monday. I think you're going to remember that. But UM,
I think to an extense yes, um, but but nothing. UM,
I mean you're caught. You want to be sure that you know.
UM. I think that it would have been horrible to send out Triple H
for a promo last Monday. Actually I would I would have paid. I
would have paid money to see that. I would have actually just loved to
have seene how we would have handled that situation. But you're right, if
I was in a decision making position, um and had WWE's better interest in
mine and hunters, yeah, that was a good choice not to put them
out there. Yeah, so I think I think to an extent, yeah,
it's done. And um And because honestly, I didn't necessarily know what
how the crowds would react, even when we would go back two or three
times somewhere. I don't know if that was something that was discussed without me
around, But I was never told, you know, hey, I wouldn't
do this in this city. A lot of times, you know, Sina
would just sort of feel it out specifically for him because of his reactions.
May very he would fill it out when he would see who was who was
coming into the building or how they were reacting. But no, again,
I could be wrong. I'm just telling you from my standpoint, I never
wrote anything based on the town unless it was something significant where we were going
to somebody's hometown or we knew it was enemy territory for somebody else. As
far as Mizz and Swagger. I mean, I'm gonna say the same thing.
Those were two guys I got behind when I was there. I still
think that they could utilize both of them. I do not like miss as
a baby face. I don't think it works. I think it can,
but not in the way that they're doing it now. He comes across a
little John Sena to me as a baby face in that you know, food
jokes and um, it's his jokes aren't connecting with the audience, and I
think he needs to be a little bit more of if he's gonna be the
baby face, almost like a little bit more mature, where maybe the younger
kids kind of still go, I don't know, it's the Miz, you
know, and maybe they don't really get it. But the scene an overcrowd
could could kind of really connect with him where he can be kind of that
snarky sort of baby face that that has fillish tendencies because he is the Miz
and he's gonna be an asshole, but you kind of like him now because
he's fighting on your side. I think Jack Swaggers put in a great position
right now with that character. Um, I think that I will be Burt
at the stake for this, but I don't think they should have put the
title on Dolf Sigler, and I think that they could have really had something
with a Swagger and del Rio, especially if they put the title on Swagger.
Um. So yeah, I mean to answer the question, No,
I don't like what they're doing with with either of them. I like what
they're I like what they're attempting to do with Swagger, let's put it that
way. I think it could be better and I'm not going to bring up
the stake or for it, but I want you to expand on why you
don't like that they put the title on Dolf. Was it a timing issue?
Uh in or or what? Um? Hmm uh yeah, the timing
number one, because um, I think that they had a good story with
the with the world title that they could have told. Um I don't I
again, I know I'm in the minority, but I don't think Dolf could
sell pay per views, and I don't think Dolf has the ability to grab
a microphone and really sell a match or make you hair. I think he
does a great job in the ring with it, but I don't think that
he can. I don't think he could get something like that over. You
know, you're you're gonna now pay for a pay per view, not solely
based on Dolf Ziggler selling it, but a big part of it is going
to be that. And I just don't think he's that guy to be able
to do that. And now, who who's he gonna who's he gonna face?
Who have you built up for him to really have chased the title?
Del Rio? I mean, I think del Rio had had a better dynamic,
especially just with the story with Swagger. And you know, listen,
if anyone knows it's the work, it's me. And I was sitting there
front row at WrestleMania for Swagger del Rio, and honestly, that match felt
legit when they were doing the ring introductions, it felt like I was there
for a legit fight, just in the way that, you know, they
told a story that really made you believe that these two don't like each other.
And I don't know who Dolf has that could really that to make people
care. I mean, unless they're turn him babyface, um, but I
don't know. Maybe you can help me out. We care for him to
really make some money with right now, I do know that, and I
reported this in the first and Tortoons later this week that the Dolve Ziggler title
change was not that was not in part of the plans until I think Monday
and so, and that may have been to make good for Rocket. May
have been based on some of the instant reaction to WrestleMania, with a lot
of people thinking it was too corporate to establishments. They wanted to see at
least one thing happened at Mania that that surprised them and went against the grain,
and nothing did. Punk didn't win, Ziggler didn't win, Orton didn't
turn. None of that stuff that people are kind of thinking might happen happen.
So it may have been reaction to that, But I think they did
turn Ziggler with the idea being we'll figure out what we're going to do with
that title and him him as champion afterwards, but we just need to do
something to add a suppos Stressamania spark. But they've got Rybeck now looking like
he's going to be tied up with Sena. To me, Rybak, Ziggler
might have made some sense as a way for Ziggler to bump like crazy and
try to help Raybeck become a star. But the problem is that is,
then do you damage Rybeck by not having him solve the issue with the shield
and then go and fight Ziggler and not win the world title, then he
sort of starts becoming what heck what Hulk Hogan was when he first tried to
beat Nipac Wiggle for the title. All these technicalities and all these things happened,
and had Hogan not jumped to the WWF, that could have started working
against Hogan's character. That's going way back in history, but it's happened a
lot where a dominant baby face either need to go all the way with him
or else he starts looking damaged. So if that's your best option and that
the only way to make that work is to have Ziggler lose right away,
then yeah, I'm against the title change too, So I am curious who
they come up with that fans care enough about to match again. Ziggler.
Well, I mean it's obvious that it's it's gonna be del Rio, and
that's the problem with booking that way to go. Oops, you know,
maybe we made him stake with Mania, Well you should have planned Mania better.
It like you have to hot shot a title onto somebody just to say,
hey, we're gonna make up for you, know, you not being
happier, us not really giving you anything eventful last night, or oh Rock
didn't show up, so we're gonna change an entire game plan because somebody knows
showed. I just think that's such a bad idea. Yeah, yeah,
I agree. All right, Well, let's let's go back to the phone
lines, and I do want to get the numbers out if you do want
to get in line on the phone banks at six four, six, seven,
two one nine eight two eight. I'm Wade Keller hosting today. I'll
be back on Tuesday with Jason Pablo progressing dot Net. We're here five days
a week and sometimes six on Sunday nights after big pay per views, but
we're here Monday through Friday. Mondays, we're on live in the hour before
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we appreciate you joining us today. Our guest is John Piermarini x WWW,
writer on the Creative Team in two thousand and nine and two thousand and ten.
Let's go back to the phone. Lines two one seven, six h
one, seven seventy three and three four seven are the next four in line.
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want seven Please thus figure been where you're from the Hello this is Ryan from
Chicago. Hey Ryan, thanks for Colin what have you got for us?
Absolutely, I just wanted to start off by saying that I've been a long
time member. I love the site. Um, definitely find value in it.
So uh absolutely agreed with what Chris Testimony elset earlier. So absolutely her
question, Um, you know, Steve Austin, I know obviously the dream
match would be John Cina. I'm sorry, I see him Punk versus Austin
at WrestleMania thirty. Um, what do you think would be the biggest money
match for him? And if he did have when you think it could outdraw
Roxina? What's the dream match for for Punk or for Austen for Austin?
Oh, okay, yep, John, what do you think? I think
it's Punk. I think Punk would have been a great h opponent for him
even in the Attitude days. I think Punk and Austin could. I think
here's the thing too, is you got to get two guys that that really
want to sell the match too. And I think those are two guys that
are going to go out there and go, look, I want this,
you want this, and they're it's gonna show. And I think when it
shows and it comes across that way, people are going to buy into it,
and I think that Punk is the perfect guy for a match with Austin
if he were to come back next year. UM, I don't think that
there's UM. I don't see what they could do with Sina Austin other than
say, hey, we're really gonna try to make Sena into the biggest star
of all time, you know, And I don't see where. I don't
see that really clicking. UM. But Austin Punk, I think could get
a lot of people to care. And I think it could get a lot
more eyeballs too, because I think that, Yeah, I think I think
people would probably go back and go man, the Rock was cool and I
loved following the Rock, but I think that Austin coming back would get I
think a bigger audience in the sense that I think wrestling fans would go,
Wow, Okay, this was my guy and he's coming back and at least
give it a shot. And I think when they saw that, if they
see the dynamic with him in Punk, I think they really kind of jumped
back in and give WW that opportunity to grab some of those fans back.
And I think Rock kind of did that, But I don't know. I
think there's just a different appeal to Austin where I think Rock kind of could
have brought in non wrestling fans. And I don't think non wrestling fans cared
to watch Monday Night Raw on the build to WrestleMania, but maybe they check
out WrestleMania, and I think they're not going to stay tuned from Monday Night
Raw. I think you have the chance of bringing in wrestling fans with stone
Cold that will watch the build to WrestleMania with Stone Cold and if you if
you hook him, will stay. And I think Austin's been smart if he
has any intent, even if it's just a ten or twenty or thirty percent
idea of maybe coming back, because you know, he's I think he's made
a nice niche for himself post wrestling with some of the things that he's doing.
But if he does come back, and once I pick Payday and hey
it's Rustlemania thirty, it's a one off and now that if Rock doesn't come
back, and that's a big question mark. But if he isn't around for
Mania thirty, then that gives Austin the spotlight to himself at Mania thirty.
Then I think, you know, Austin. Obviously, he and Punk have
a dynamic. I think that's the favorite match if you're to put money down.
But you know what if del Ziggler catches Fire as a heel and they
keep him heal and he holds a title or not for a long time.
Ziggler is a guy who I think Austin would would look good against. I
think, just like Punk, if Austin came back, he needed to be
with somebody he trusted, who wouldn't hurt him, who would be able to
bump for him and make him look good. And that's something that Ziggler could
deliver. And then Johnet would also play in two Even more than seem Punk
Wood, Austin could be in the position of making a star at a level
several above even the Fon Dongo Jericho situation. At least, then you'd be
taking somebody in his early thirties who's just getting started. Punk's already teased retirement.
He's already teased He's not going to be one of those guys who wrestles
still. Forty might be a leveraging move, it might work in his favor
or against him, but Ziggler has not talked like that Ziggler is just um,
you know, beginning. So what do you think of that? Yeah?
Uh, two parts on that one. Um, I think when you
bring someone in the caliber of stone cold Steve Austin, I think that you
I think what you might run into by putting him against Ziggler is is almost
showing the difference in in um what's the word almost in um in levels?
I mean, I think that I think it would make Dolph Ziggler, I
don't think he can hang with with Austin. Maybe in the ring, but
I don't think that if you had to build to WrestleMania with Ziggler and Austin,
I think he's gonna drown in there in the ring with with microphones.
And uh, you know, to the point that we just talked about earlier
is WrestleMania is not about that anymore. It's about getting the biggest buy rate.
And I think that even there might be a chance that they might not
even see Pump being able to do that with Austin unless Austin can then and
said, I walk punk at WrestleMania. But I think said, if you
want to bring Austin in and get Ziggler over, fine, I'm going to
make a prediction and say that I don't think by the time that came around
that Ziggler is going to be at that level. I think that, again,
there's certain guys for certain spots, and I've failed to see Ziggler take
that next step. And I was a big fan of Ziggler while I was
there, I was a big fan of him after I left, and I
just did not see him turn that corner again. I know everyone has fine,
everyone's entitled to their opinion. I might be wrong, but that's just
the way I see it. If you sensed did you sense anything from being
a round wrestle any over the weekend that there's any trepidation about pushing Ziggler or
were you kind of the would your what you just said stand out as different
than most people, or do you think there's a mix of opinions of him,
again based on the limited people that you were around. If I said
exact thing in a production meeting, I don't think that people would look at
me like I'm crazy. I think that I honestly think the room would probably
part size, and I think that you'd have one side of the room going
yes, I agree and blah, blah blah BLAT's let's not go that route,
and I think you'd have half of the other room saying the same thing.
That's pure speculation. I have no idea what anybody has said in the
last since I've been there, so I could say that just the way that
I've seen Ziggler book, my assumption is that there is probably budding heads back
there. Yeah, yeah, very good, Ryan, you're still on with
us. Do you have any follow up or another question? No, I
don't. Thanks a lot for taking my call and keep up a great work
weight great thanks right, appreciate it. Support us on Patreon starting at four
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That's pwtorch dot com. All right, let's go next two US six
to one and then as I said, seven seven, three and three four
seven on deck six or one ply stage to name and where you're from?
Chet doing to day? I doing good, scab? What have you got
for us today? And John? I want to ask you this question I
heard I just got on Can't League and I got fits the pizzas. Now
put this as a dream match you and I was asking other questions. How
would you feel about seeing them Pump taking on the rock that restum Maya the
way the rock? Would you know put over seam Pump to you know,
get him shot instead of John Tanner because like you said, Russell may was
nothing more just to me just seem I mean John Sinner and Triple AI show.
And also would the result of rustle Man, What would you have done
different? Do you know, make a better rest Man? That's all I
happen today? And Kevin before you go, you know that Pump took on
Rock at the previous two pay per views before Mania, and you're asking should
they have a third match at Mania next year? No, I'm somebo but
his pains restum maya went now. I mean they should have stretched out a
little biting. Yeah, and you know they would argue about, you know,
seeing Pump putting the title against h Okay Shriek versus Tyler against the US
here at his game? Fair enough? Yep, no, no, no,
I'm glad or yeah? So John, would you have been in favor
of rock Punk at Mania this year instead of Punk Undertaker? And then I
think you want to know what you have done differently in terms of finishes?
Um? Okay, So I guess I think it would have been in an
improvement to do um rock Sena or I'm sorry rock prom at Mania. But
I think that even the bigger story would have been to h to have um
you know, Sina, what I would have done has probably done this and
this is off top of my head, so so it might be a little
chopp here. But if you if you put the Royal Rumble on before Rock
Punk and you have someone else go over in it, uh and seen it
not so much getting screwed out of it, but maybe you know, he
eliminates somebody and then that person kind of pulls him over because he's pissed off.
So Sina probably could have had it. But someone else goes over in
the Royal Rumble again in building someone give that to Swagger. Um. I
don't know if he was back yet though, so no he wasn't, but
regardless whoever it is. And then um, you have you know, you
tell this redemption story with Sena and Rock and you have you have Sina cost
Rock the ww title, and you don't even need any of that if you
have some way where Punk can go over Rock um at Royal Rumble. Um.
I don't know how you would do it, you know, maybe shield
something. Um, that's something you'd have to think out to not take away
from going Rock Sina Mania again. But I think if you would have done
that, and you would have had Punk somehow escape with the WWE title and
then you go to Mania with his WWE title streak versus Undertakers WrestleMania streak.
I think that could have been huge. I would have been at that point
put Punk over at WrestleMania m And then you have this guy where okay,
look, let's say Punk says I'm retiring in five years. But my god,
the money that you can make for five years with Punk running around saying
I beat the Rock, I beat Sena, I ended the Undertaker's street.
I told you I'm the greatest of all time. I'm gonna hold onto this
thing for four thousand, five thousand days. Try taking it off. I
mean maybe at that point you have to align him with the shield so you
can sort of really get that across. And then you got the four instead
of the free birds. There was in the sense that you have the world
champion who stands above with the other three. But you have the option to,
you know, eventually have those some of those three few with Punk down
the line. But then here we go. But then think of it like
this too. Wave is now you want to go, Okay, WrestleMania thirty,
that's the day you want to make your money. Well, how much
bigger now can you get? If it's Punk stone Cold and I'm not even
saying Punk has to hold grit until then, But why couldn't he You know,
I mean, who do you have that could really run with the title
right now? The other I mean, the other option if Austin's not available
to play that scenario out. And I know, John, a lot of
people wanted that, a lot of people thought in that, and there's still
resentment Sunday when it came to Fruition on Sunday with a lot of fans,
they watched that event. It felt corporate predictable, And yes, I think
they probably went with a lineup that would draw the most money on Sunday,
But did they go with a lineup that would draw the most money for them
with residuals for the next couple of years, And a lot of people made
that argument. Seem Punk will pay dividends if you if you sacrifice the matches
you plan this year, keep the title on Punk and do exactly what you're
saying. If Austin's not available you maybe you have the option then to turn
Brock baby face next year and have Brock breakaway from Hayman and be the guy
who can finally stop Punk. And maybe he does, maybe he doesn't.
But that's a WrestleMania thirty made event also, and then maybe you get something
more out of Brock than you know that the heel who you know, just
that he's been so far right, But how long has it been since you've
had someone basically holding the company hostage as far as who is going to step
up? And now now you've got someone, like you said, whether it's
WrestleMania thirty, I mean, what if what if you somehow can keep right
back away from them too, and you have this guy who finally takes the
title back, you know, and you now not only have the biggest heal
maybe ever in your company and cmplung, but now you've built somebody to be
d next John seen up, the next row, the next Stocal. I
mean, there's ways to make money today that still holds you big money tomorrow.
And you know, I don't know why it's it's not being utilized that
And again it could come down to somebody is saying I don't want Tom to
be that guy. And if that's the case, you can't fight it.
But you know, it all comes down to your own business to make money,
whether you you know, if you run Coca Cola, but you don't
drink it. It doesn't matter. You don't bury Coca cola, you don't
put out commercials that make Coca cola a little bad. You still want to
make a billion dollars that year, So why not? Do you? Did
you sense that bensct Man was ever open to having a lead heel on raw
be the champion. I mean because densc Man's formula he grew up with,
you know, he grew up with Bruno Sammartino and then Bob Ackland and then
came a hulk Coogan, and then his instincts after Hogan left us go to
Brett Hart or Lex Luger, and then after that first chance he got Sean
Michaels was sometimes a heels, sometimes a face's champion, but then it was
stone cold and the rock oftentimes is a baby face. And then as soon
as he could find someone in John Cena, he went with him. And
a lot of the time Triple h and Kurt Engel were baby faces in that
mix too. Vince likes to build around baby faces and the heels are there
to get knocked over like bowling pins. Would he go all out or does
it go too much against his instincts and philosophy to actually have the dominant centerpiece
be a long term heel champion. What I think happened is he shut goals
with Hulk Coogan and he really put WWF on the map. And I think
that when he left, and I think even while he was there, you
know, when you know his time is running out, I think they wanted
to find who can we recreate this with that can match what Hulk Hogan did.
And I think that's why you you saw guys like Lex Luger be given
the shot or I think even they might have even it looks like experimented with
with Sid being that guy or um, you know, and and then I
think what they went to was, Okay, well what do we have now?
Okay, well Sid didn't work out, Lex Luger didn't work out,
Hogan's gone, Um, We've got Sean and Brett. And I think that
they saw Brett as someone that could be that could really draw overseas, which
he did, and I think that then eventually it turned into who here can
can I strust? Who here? I have a I have a locker room
full of guys that I don't know if any of them can really be a
star solists, who's the one guy that I think can Okay, if Sean
Michael, then let's put it on him and run with him. And you
know, I know he's a huge star, um, but you know,
I don't think he really did great business. Um and uh, I think
that one should become at that point, he became so used to going Okay,
I gotta fight in the next baby's face, I got a next the
next face to the company that that's what it became was let's just do what
we can to make this guy and use these heels to make you know,
the defically what John Cena ended up becoming. But I think that what they
need to do, it's kind of reset and build up these heels, whether
it's one, two, three guys, and then build your baby face through
these top heels. Because again, you walk into Batman and if he beats
up the Joker in the first five minutes, why am I wasting another hour
and fifty five to see if he's going to beat up the Joker in the
end. I know he's going to do it. And I think that if
you've build CM pump and you build for the sake of argument, you have
a pump. You've got right back m heels, and then you have right
back and you have let's say Dulf Tabler, and you build these guys as
just monster heels, and then you build a baby face out of defeating those
guys. I think you could recreate something, you know. I don't know
if you could ever recreate Stone Cold Rocker or whole COGD. I think actually
just going to happen on it. Don't but you don't have anybody, if
you don't have someone for them to de see. Yeah, yeah, John,
your reception got a little bit worse in your last answer than it had
been. I don't know if you did anything different, but if you can
switch back to it was a little bit clear before, but but we could
still hear it just was an ideal. Let's let's let's jump to a seven
seven three next and then three four seven, and then we'll probably shift from
there to one email question on the free show, and then we'll shift to
the VP after show and take some more email questions. And I got a
couple notes written done too. In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental
system and ultimately the brand you see today on the Torch VIP Podcast NXT eight
years Back. We'll be taking a weekly look at this page in NXT's early
history. Join Ellie Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday
as we go eight years back to the day to track nxts rising talents and
why they did or didn't work out, exclusively for PW tors VIP members.
Uh seven seventy three, I please stay your name and where you're from from?
Hey, boris what have you got for John Field? Are they?
I think they're throwing us a bone with um putting, you know, doing
you know, with no character build. They're using Undertaker, which is surprising
to me. I want to see him, you know. But you know,
I know they're not gonna they're gonna protect Undertaker if she'll get passed.
UM undertaking him? Who do they who put him against next? You know,
because they don't know how to long term book. Who they put them
up against next? Without ruining the Shield for lack of talent? Sure?
Thanks for us, Yeah, it's it's interesting. On Monday's Rage on that
Undertaker, Kane and Daniel Bryan lined up against the Shield indicating Undertaker, whoever
you know we're all thinking, well he even wrestle WrestleMania. Um, you
know, is he too her too beat up? Is he ready to to
to you know, retire? Now he shows up the next day and does
an angle that sets up a match that people are gonna want to see now,
Um, which is Taker, Kane and Brian against the Shield. How
do you book that? And how does the Shield survive that? And then
what's next form I I don't think you can book that. I mean,
I think it's just get it's cutting closer and closer and closer to Mania every
year for Undertaker to uh to to be able to do it, and I
think you'd be wasting. Um what Undertaker is there for at this point?
Now, Um, unless you're going all in on the Shield, you know,
unless it's unless you'd put the Shield over. But um, I think
Sane and Brian are people that can job in that match and not sacrifice the
Undertaker, And then you can also um, you know, set up you
could There's a number of things you can do with it. With I think
it's the you can do to protect Taker but still have the Shield come out
dominant. Yeah, I think you could do something to get the Shield over
in the sense that they take out the Undertaker, whether it's in the match
before the matcher, whenever it is, and then you have Brian or Kine
do the job, and then you've got shield looking great because they can they
took out the Undertaker, but I wouldn't waste the Undertaker there, keep them
in the WrestleMania, you know, attraction and and build to again one of
the last remaining huge draws that they have. I mean, if you went
next year and you went CM punk Stone Cold, Undertaker Sina again, it
goes against my philosophy of using those guys to put someone over. But when
you have one last chance, it's something you've got to do it. So
I think that's the exception to the rule. And you know, and then
maybe it kills me to say this, but maybe you haven't seen it in
the street. I'm not sure that it helps John Cena to end the streak
at this point in his career, and I know some people will will think
that, but I don't know that now is the right time. If seen
as the right guy, I don't know that he would benefit from it at
all. It depends on how much time you have left with Sena. If
you have seen a turn heel to end the street, I think you've got
yourself a massive heel. You have to have him turn heel at WrestleMania in
the match. And you know, and if you have again two three years
left in Sena again, that's two or three years, you can make a
lot of money. You've invested so much in this streak that it would almost
not be worth it to not get your money out of it. You know,
you have undertake How many DVDs can you put out a Undertaker in the
streak? They've probably let in two or three by now when he's not there
anymore. What does it mean? Yeah? Yeah, all right, Well
let's go next to three four seven and see three four seven. I say,
please state your name and where you're from? Three four seven? All
right? With last three four seven? Instead, we'll go to two eight
one two A one, Please stay tr naming where you're from? Hell,
guys, A chat out of Houston. How you are doing? I doing
good? Jay? Thanks for Colin. What have you got for John today?
Well, John, there's not much I really agree with you on as
far as a wrestling psychology, but I do agree with you with the whole
thing about Dolph Ziegler. You know, he's very good in the ring,
but like you were saying about his puma ability, I'd never get the feeling
that he's like in a fight. He doesn't really talk about things like a
fight. He's more of the Chris Jericho type to me. But my question
from my question was actually about um drawing a blank. It was actually about
I'm sorry, ending the Undertaker street. Um. I know a lot of
times you talked about having the miss ended or having to him punk in it.
I kind of see it like when the New England Patriots a few years
ago had that undefeated season and then they rosted at the Super Bowl. You
know, no one talked about it anymore. It wasn't a special anymore.
Don't you think if they ended the Undertaker streak that it would do a lot
of damage to the brand that they built up? Yeah? I agree,
But when when Undertaker's no longer there to build up? Well, and you
know, John, I'm on the side of saying, never end the streak
unless somebody would really benefit from it. You know, I like, I
agree with what you're saying that if you have it, why not use it?
But if using it doesn't actually do any good. Um, I think
you end up protecting then then you just I don't know. There's something about
Undertaker retiring with the Streak intact that says something that says to the fans something
WWE rarely does, which is we care. We did something that didn't necessarily
quote draw money because it felt like the thing to do for the legacy,
and it's just something sacred that fans can appreciate that w w E didn't just
feel the need to end just for the sake of ending it once we knew
Taker was going to be done. That's kind of where I fall on it,
unless that right guy comes along where it can make a star. But
I just don't think seen a benefit. So I think if the fall else
is equal, just let's take a retire with the Streak, because I don't
see Sina benefiting in a Frostomania thirty as Takers last match. I think Sina
gets himself more over by from because fans kind of know how wrestling works to
some degree. I think Sena gets himself over by not using this political cloud
to push for a win. Number one. I wouldn't even say that it
would be a political move to say put me over on the Undertaker. But
I mean again, let me kind of use it as an analogy. And
this one maybe not not not makes sense to a lot of people. But
let's say you using the Coca cola thing. Let's say you run diet coke
okay, and you go listen, it's the right thing to do for us
to come out and go, guys, you drink enough to coke, it's
gonna kill you. That's just the right thing to do. Guys. So
you know what, that may cost us five hundred million dollars this year,
but if god damn it, that's the right thing to do. You're talking
to a guy who was put in a position to say number one, help
me make money today and help me make money tomorrow. Why would I want
to tell a story that I go, hey, you know what, man,
it'll sure put a smile on people's faces that Undertaker didn't lose the streak.
I do agree you should not lose the streak just to lose the streak.
But I feel like if there's money to be made or a star to
be made out of it, I think you have to do it right.
And that's a question. Is that is will that guy present himself If if
Vince McManis thinking seen a Taker next year, if that's where they're headed,
does take Er stick around one more year and not look like himself perhaps not
be into it, because if he was going to retire anyway and retire with
the streak, I don't think that's selfish a him. I would say that
to not. I don't think it would be considered selfish to not come back
one year later if he doesn't feel up for it physically, just to pass
a torch to somebody who isn't ready. But if Taker's motivated and it really
likes somebody who's coming up the roster and thinks will let's just say Wade Barrett
for instance, or Jack Swagger, one of those two guys just has a
breakout next fifteen sixteen, seventeen months and Taker beats Cina at Wrestomania and the
crowd goes nuts intow Orleans and they hug and it's just feel good Rstomania moment.
Whatever the streak is alive, people think Taker's retiring. But if a
Swagger or Barrett, or if one of the Shield members breaks out and you
can do so whatever, then Taker goes. You know what I do want
to I think I can make a lot of money for this company and myself
and my opponent. Let's take this guy and let's appro Trustsomania, with the
idea being that if he still has this kind of momentum, I will lose
to this guy because I respect him that much and he's the right guy to
do it. You can almost have an Austin Brett moment, you know,
where it felt like a passing of the torch. So if that circumstance presented
itself and Mark Callaway feels like he can do it and he's very up for
it, then I'm for ending the streak. But if at WrestleMania thirty it's
a Taker Sena, I just think Taker wins and and and then Taker retires
because I don't see that being worse for business than seen a winning. Well,
then if you have seen a leaving in the in the next year too,
I agree. You know, if you're if you're going to get six
matches out of Sina being able to say he beat the streak, I agree
one hundred percent. I don't think Undertaker at any time is protecting his streak.
I think that he's smart enough to know that it could help somebody.
And I think that you can tell that he is going out there year after
year when he probably shouldn't because he respects the business so much, because he
wants to do what's right for the company. And I and I think that
if they went to him and they said, gosh, we want you to
job to Fan Dangel at WrestleMania. I think that if he's out there and
said, is this the guy you're going with, and Vince said, yep,
he would do it. Yeah, you know so, and and you
know, let me make it clear too. I don't think they should give
it to Sina ending the Street, but I do think that if you have
two to three years left with Sena and you want to make a big match
and you want to do something with that streak, if Undertaker goes, guys,
I'm coming back to thirty, find the guy, and and if and
if Vince says I need to find the guy and make the most amount of
money. I think if you can turn Sena out of it, and then
you can at that point you can then build somebody off of Scena being heal,
you know, you can build a new baby face again. You have
to put the pieces of the puzzle together. I'm not saying go out there
and job Undertaker for the sake of jobbing Undertaker. Let's put the pieces together.
Let's make sure it makes money, Let's make sure that it draws people
in and end left. Utilize this bullet that we have very good. Um,
let's end the lifecast portion of the show. Here. Will move to
the v at the after show portion and answer a few email questions with John
Permarini before we go. So VIP members hold tight. If you are not
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John, do you have anything you want to plug or social media handles
you want to give out or anything like that. Yeah, all right,
good, so that'll do it for us today. Do you remember when Hulkogan
shocked the world and formed the New World Order? Or when Stone Cold Steve
Auston passed down on the Sharpshooter to breath the Hitman heart. I'm Torch contributor
Frank Pettianni and I reviewed these shows and many more for my exclusive VIP podcast,
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slash go vip for details and sign up for all right on. As we
now moved into the VA exclusive after show, an email question from Jay R
is do you think the build up to see them Punk and Undertaker being more
about under was being more about Undertaker getting revenge for the Paul Bear disrespect issue
made fans less convinced Punk would be the person to end the streak. I
feel if the match were built around Punk selling his championship run and being the
best in the world against Undertaker, who wanted to face the best possible opponent,
fans might have bought into the idea that Undertaker was going to pass the
torch and let Punk go over in the match. That's Jay from Liverpool,
by the way, says he's from the same city as Kids on Bridges,
So that's pretty cool. John. What do you think of that, because
you've been you kind of complimented that, you kind of complimented the way the
match was built up. Yeah, you know, it depends on how they
did it. Yeah. I mean, first of all, the way that
he got that match was odd, you know, because I think it was
just a natural transition to go all right, you know what, you guys
took away something from me. I'm going to take away the most important industry
has ever seen, you know, and I think that would have been great.
I think, um, I think that that he's right, But I
don't think that there was that feeling that Punk would have been the guy no
matter what story you told, unless he had the title. And um,
so I feel like they they they made they made the best of what was
there with how they got into the match. You know, Okay, I
want to fatal four way and now I get to wrestle the Undertaker. What
do you do from there? You know? Um, it wasn't like it
was. See I'm Punk had a vendetta, gets Taker and he's gonna and
he's gonna go after the streak. So I like what they did because it
made it took a not so fresh matchup and and and and made it again
kind of kind of real. And I love that. I loved how when
they tried to make things real and you know what, it pushed buttons and
people can say whatever they want. The fact that they're irritated by it means
it worked. So. Um, if it would have been done in the
beginning to have Punk set his sights on the Undertaker and take away something that
maybe is even more important than what they took away from him. Yeah,
I think it could have worked, but with the way that it was presented
to set it up, I think that they did something that was you know,
I don't mean to say this in a disrespectful way to Paul Bearer or
his family, but they got to use something that worked, you know that
that got at least my interest in the match. I'm a big CM punk
fan, so I would have been interested anyways. But they were able to
utilize something with the consent of the family, and I think that it worked,
and I don't. I don't think it would have worked the way that
it was set up. If it was set up differently from the beginning,
yes, it could have worked. But still I don't think anyone was buying
he was then in the street unless he had the title, and I think
that that was even evident by where they put the match on the card.
Jay also asked has Vince or anybody in a senior management role ever addressed how
a crowd reacts or doesn't react to certain events playing out in the ring.
Have any attempts ever been made to help create a more energetic and responsive crowd
like we've seen in the late night like we saw in the late nineties.
Always, I mean, you're always trying to manipulate the crowd. There's there's
times that he does things on the fly to get the crowd going, you
know, or or bring the crowd down, or whatever whatever way he wants
to manipulate you. He's always thinking about that. It's never something that's just,
oh, you know what, let's try this. It's constantly he's doing
what he thinks needs to be done to get what he wants out of you
and to give you what he thinks you want. Next question, I'm gonna
try to hit a few of these before a wrap up here. Rapid Fire
Jason three eighteen, a VP member, says John before has alluded to the
fact that he was on the team that handled the Legacy storyline. I want
to ask about a rod ring the Legacy era US so to speak, where
the final segments of Tedbiac stand up to Randy Orton and the crowd was stopping
their feet and support of Ted. They were even chanting his name. It
was like he had enough of Orton's treating him like crap and he was gonna
snap. And the crowd was right behind him there and then he showed a
lot of fire, almost floaming up the mouth, wanting a piece of Orton.
But then the next week he went back to beating being Orton's sidekick and
showed no spine. Right then and there, I said, moment lost to
him, never get it back, and he didn't. Can John Sleep explain
what the logic was behind giving d Bass a great moment to stand up to
Orton, but then never doing anything afterwards, Because like you, Wade,
I always thought the BOSC had great potential and being that straight up good guy
baby face in the midst of madness. Yeah, guy, I really wanted
to to make him kind of us to walk away from that legacy story as
as a top guy. And uh, I don't know. I asked myself
the same question he asked now, I don't know why we we went there
and then we didn't, we didn't follow up. I never really got got
an answer to that, and trust me, I wanted to know. And
I just think that you know, there's a philosophy of who are we getting
over, and that's who we focus on, and at that point Orton was
turning baby Face out of the legacy story, and that's who we had to
worry about. Yeah, I don't know. I don't I wish I can
answer that question, because I'd like to answer myself. Was that was that
moment for Dbaci to deliberately written at the time, it was written to the
best of your knowledge, to lead somewhere, And then Vince kind of saw
rose headed and just said, Nope, we're going to steer it another way.
Yeah, that legacy story was going to be really good. That's all
I'm going to say. That legacy story was going to be really good.
And and and my answer to your question is the same one as to I
don't know why we didn't do it. Yeah, but it was it was
it would qualify as a change in plans based on the oppression you had the
week earlier. I don't know if it was so much a change in plans
as as it was just a lack of follow up follow I think it was
just follow the philosophy it's orton right now. And I thought we could have
done something with both of them. I really think that we could have gotten
both those guys over. Yeah, and you know, just like just like
the one caller before it said, look, I don't agree with the way
you're wrestling philosophy on things you know, people don't agree with me, and
I may again maybe I would have been wrong, but I really felt like
people were getting behind ted and we could have used that to even do what
we wanted to do and still come out with the same outcome, with Orton
walking away from that not only getting over but as a baby face. We
have another email question related to Randy Orton. This is Brandon from Michigan of
VFP member. He says, is WW only holding out to Randy Orton in
your view, just so no one else gets him other contract? He's just
treading water and he can't be trusted with a major push because he has two
strikes. How do you think Randy Orton's career I thought over the next few
years given those circumstances, I think it's a wasted a wasted talent right now.
I don't think they're holding onto him, so TNA doesn't kid am I
why would you not utilize Randy Orton? He's over and people care about him,
and you've invested money in him. Why wouldn't you have them and why
wouldn't you keep him around and keep them in a semi prominent role. I
mean, I guess I can understand, again, from a business standpoint,
we're going to invest more on you and you might f up again and that
screws us over. So I can understand the hesitation. But I don't think
that they're just keeping them just so we can say Cana can't have them.
I think they'd keep them because they feel he could still be utilized and people
can still be utilized without being the top guy on the card. Yeah.
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think it's worth it. Pwtorch dot com slash go vi ip. All right,
let me, Actually it was going through email and a couple already,
a couple other people believe what are not? John asked about the GM storyline
marking thoses do not ask. It's just crazy. Didn't they watch it?
It was hornswoggle. I thought, I know that's a thing. Well,
they want to know what the original plans were and you know why they changed.
All right, this is John. I'm sorry, he goes Wade and
John. It's Nathan from Sydney. Here it has been said on this show
before then Undertaker wrestling only once a year is a drawing card for Dresslemania.
Well, Undertaker wrestling some matches through the next twelve months affect the WrestleMania by
rate. So that's part one. Part two. We know Chris Jericho is
over with the smart fans or the internet fans, the type of fan that
attends WrestleMania. Is there a chance the Route crowd this week we're trying to
get Fandango over to make Chris Jericho look good. That's giving people a lot
more credit. That was my answer. Yeah, yeah, like the fans
center going, let's cheer for Fandango, so that j Jericho gets credit for
making him a star. But I will say that possibly the fact that Fandango
looked good against Jericho at WrestleMania gave fans a little more confidence to get behind
him in the way that they did on Monday. Perhaps, yeah, you
know, it doesn't I think enough people know just from the stories, even
from Whole Coogan talking about Andre passing the torch and putting him over and making
him the next guy. I think people understand that for somebody to put somebody
else over, they have to endorse them themselves. You could, you could
pay a guy enough money to not care, but I think Jericho cares enough,
and I think that for him to go, I'll put Fandango over.
He felt like he should it, and I think that if if, if
that many people respect Jericho and like Jericho. I think they've said, hey,
if Jericho see something in this guy, so do we um. I
don't think that the crowd chanting his music had anything to do with anything,
but they're just paying the way that they were. You know. It's it's
like saying they saw Randy Orton walk into the arena eating a pretzel, so
they put over the pretzel guy. I just think they were a rowdy crowd
and fan Dango came out and they ran out of ideas of what's a chance,
so they sang his music. What I think now, it's cool,
what is your impression. We haven't gotten to the sense d it's no colors
asked. I was going to save it for the after show, so here
we are. Um. Was what happened on Monday Night? Good or bad
for w W E N? Why? Oh? Um? It depends on
what moment. I think that it was good for WWE for Dolph Zigler because
I think people watching at home perception is reality, and maybe if they sat
there and said, Oh, I really get Ziggler, He's not really the
guy, and then they saw that a reaction, I think they went,
oh, wow, this guy's over. They've been waiting years for this.
I think that during the I think it would hurt Shamus and Orton. Oh,
I guess people don't care about them. I others did that though,
and then, um, I can't remember any other chance. But yeah,
I think it hurts and it helps. Again, it depends on what chance
they were saying and when. And I think it helps Fandango because now I
think people are going to go and say, you know what, I'm gonna
do that now when Fandango comes out. So I think it. I think
it helped a couple guys, and I think it hurts the stock of a
couple of guys, but overall as the company, I don't really I think
they liked that that happened. I think they'd rather have that than you're sitting
on your ass and not saying anything, which happens in the majority of the
city. How about the crowd just entertaining themselves during Orton Shamus. It was
that if you had seen that on the script, and again, nobody,
I shouldn't say nobody, but it wasn't just common knowledge of a crowd.
It was going to be like this. It wasn't like, oh, you
know, it's the day after mania. They're always crazy here. It's like
nobody knew to that degree it would happen. But if you saw the script
and you saw the storyline they were doing Orton Shamus, it's going to fill
a lot of time in the third hour when people's patients already has tested it.
They've been there from the beginning, two baby faces against each other.
It was that asking for trouble to begin with. If you saw that on
the script, or are Orton and Shamus two pros? And who could have
seen that kind of rejection of what they were doing coming, Well, you're
you're Okay, you're talking to someone that wouldn't have done that story in the
first place, because I think you're insulting people's intelligence. So let's just start
from being there and being part of creating a story. And if you put
a story out there, you obviously think that it's going to get over and
I don't. I mean, you have two guys who got knocked out by
by Big Show, but yet they're bickering with each other of who gets to
kick his ass first, who cares go go kick his ass, you know,
or both of you go kick his ass? Why do I care that
you get a mass with them tonight? How about this Shamus? Right,
man, I was wrong. If you want to punch me in the face,
punch me in the face. And then Shamus goes, yeah, I'm
gonna punch you in the face, and he punches them in the face.
And then you get you know, the agents to come in between them backstage,
and you have Vicky Guerrero go in there and go go out there and
settle it the way it should be done, and I think he would have
got a different reaction. And then on the flip side of that is you
could have just had both these guys, go, I'm going after Big Show,
you know. I mean think think. I think sometimes people try to
too hard to tell an unreal unrealistic story, and I don't think that their
mind is set on telling an unrealistic story, or I think they're just forcing
a story instead of thinking in what would actually really happen, you know.
I mean, I think that Shamus got convinced by Orton that we should put
Big Show on the team. If you already know Big Shows an asshole,
then why do you I mean, I could go off on a twenty minute
rant here. I think that it should have just been done differently. Instead,
you're having them, You're forcing a match on the crowd, and I
think that that's the way that they took it. You're forcing this on me,
and we're going to react accordingly. We don't want to see it,
so we're going to entertain ourselves. And I don't know if you knew,
John, but at the event they did ring introductions and Shamus and Orton were
bickering, and I think this actually played into it because it was a smart
crowd, a perceptive crowd with a lot of energy. They went to a
commercial break and they turned the lights down, and Orton and Shamus just stood
there and did nothing. And then when the red light came back on,
they turned the spotlight back on. Orton Shamus started bickering again, and I
think the crowd looked at that and said, that's just tude aad you guys
like it. Totally broke the authenticity, insulting your intelligence. Yeah, you
do that to anybody, they will turn on you. Yeah. So I
think that's one of the unknown. I mean, maybe they would have done
exactly the same thing, but that might have made them go, screw you
guys. You're putting on a show force and you can't even bother to care
about us. You're only caring about the TV audience. So exactly. Yeah.
I saw at a at a TV event once way. I think it
was a SmackDown taping. Swagger was came to the ring and did his little
thing where he like jumps in the air with his arms out little is there
an official name for that, the airplane hop. I don't know what does
he do that he puts his arm well, he doesn't anymore, his new
character doesn't put his old character getting the ring and he kind of do a
couple a couple of hops with his arms extended. Everybody has the running in
a circle with his arms out that. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of.
Yeah, so he did that. Yeah, oh well he did that.
The cameraman walks up to him and whisper something to him and basically says,
we didn't catch it. You need to do it again. So he
had, he did it. He stopped, he's playing to the crowd,
the cameraman to do it again, and he listened, and then he gets
up and he does it again and it was just awful. It's like doing
that for the TV audience is not important enough to expose to the live crowd
that this guy is just a puppet with strings being pulled by somebody in speaking
to the camera guy in the back, it was it was like just one
of those kind of come on, you know, think about the live crowd
type moments. It took me out of the moment again. Yeah, you
know, and the crowd is important too for what is presenting on presented on
TV. Um. Yeah, that has to be very careful, very careful
with everything that's the person sees on TV as your product, and the audience
is part of that, and he has to be very careful with how you
treat them, because if they turned or if they react the way you don't
watch, it's gonna it's gonna come across that way on television. YEP.
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me. Jason Powell hosts
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Quick question from Scott Briller. Is the Taker Punk issue over with? Or
could you see Taker in Triple H teaming up against punk in Brock in a
tag match combining two of the singles matches at Mania Share put it on SmackDown.
I don't care about it? And why not? Where do you get
out of the tag match? I mean you have a rock, right,
I mean put them again someone and tell a story. You're gonna get eyeballs
because of them, you devide the eyeballs that come in Brock. Why would
brock Lessner team with anybody except cmpunk Um? You know you did you say
CM punk I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, it would so would be a
rematch. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay,
that's m I uh okay, in the sense of brock Lessener again,
I think he's better used to tell a story with. Yeah, I can
see Paul Hayman go to him. From a business standpoint, this is a
great and I'm talking about character, you know, teams punking, you know,
blah blah blah blah blah. I could see that happening. But I
don't think. I think you're wasting again, especially Joe. Okay, so
you're staying Triple H and uh so basically combined us by the name right now?
Yeah, yeah, What do you get out of it? Yeah,
I don't. I don't. I don't know other than it's a chance to
see Undertaker against brock Um, you know, you know, and so you
sell that notion if you're not, if you don't have plants for that at
Mania, because it's Punkin Brock against Taker and Hunter, and you also have
a chance to see Hunter against Punk one more time and a rematch of the
two big matches that and if it's a means to an end, where then
you also maybe tease dissension between Punk and lessner um I who knows? Who
knows? Maybe it's used as a vehicle to get Triple H into one more
match with undertake rot Mania, although I think Hunter knows better than that.
Oh my gosh, is there were people that want to see that? I
don't think so. But Hunter, Hunter and Hunter in the audience, the
imagines exist. Yeah, all right. Final question VFT member East Coast Jam.
I would be curious for John Stott's on the style of comedy WWW presents.
I consider it, with all due respect, to be embarrassing, embarrassingly
bad. Uh. Some comic moments, such as the d X Reunion era
tops the list among the worst television I've ever seen the comic. Speaking of
Triple H, the comedy is a big part of the reason I'm embarrassed to
have raw on TV with friends over and I think it contributes to the uncool
reputation of wrestling. Why has wwb's tone definiti's been so persistent over the years
when it comes to this element, and I'd add to it, John John
Cena too seems somewhat completely oblivious to how dorky and I think interproductive that the
cheesy, corny sensing humor is. You know, the only way to really
figure out why it's still being done is because no whoever connekes the decision to
cut it is doesn't believe that it's not working. I just really feel like
they want WWE to be more than a wrestling company and being be able to
hold its own, you know, against and I don't know why, but
American idol crowd, SNL crowd, wrestling crowd, comedy crowd, drama crowd.
I think they want the same people that tune into The Walking Dead to
like WWE. But you that you also, you can't do that. You
can't you can't be not that good at a hundred things, be really great
at one thing. The Walking Dead doesn't just take little little little stabs at
comedy very little, you know, but it works because if they do it,
it's done right. And WWE needs to go look for a wrestling company.
There's enough people out there for us to make a ton of money and
sprinkle in a little comedy, sprinkle the in a little drama, sprinkle in
a little um whatever else you want to do, you know, a little
TNA and I mean boobs and asks, you know what I mean, like,
sprinkle that stuff into this product and make sure that every time you do
it it's done right, and and people will people will accept that more.
And I feel like you're losing more people than your gaining because let's say I
like Saturday Night Live and I go, hey, if you tune into WWE,
you can see backstage skits. I mean, it's just like SNL And
I go, oh, all right, I'll check it out because SNL is
not on Monday night. And I tune in and I go, okay,
this is bad and and and that audience that you were trying to get is
not coming back and they're not going to talk very highly of you. So
losing that you're not gaining new people. Yet you're losing like this person who
just wrote in and said, this is an embarrassment. And I think that
philosophy is the people that watch are just going to watch. And if you
left, that means that you just came around as a fair weather fan.
Anyways, and it's somewhat true. I think that I've talked to a lot
of people, including friend, that will sit there and complain about the product
and then I go, hey, what are you doing April seventh, I'm
ordering WrestleMania. Oh okay, Well then why would anybody change? So the
core audience is going to stay, and I think they're trying to bring in
new eyeballs, but they're doing it the wrong way because they don't have the
right people there to accomplish that. And I think that they to answer that
question to make a long answer longer they feel like it's working. And I
also think maybe the short answer is Vincent Man has no life outside of WW
and he has a very quirky sense of humor, and people write to that
in order to please him. It's an indulgence, an indulgence of sorts for
Vince. Yeah, I agree, I agree, Yeah, yeah yeah.
Anyway, John, great to have me on the show. I appreciate your
insight and your opinions as always, and uh, we'll have to have you
back on sometime down the line, especially when we have another big week like
this one. Thank you very much for having them. Excellent Thanks to all
the v ibeers for joining us and for yours, and on that note,
I will sign up for today. Hey everyone, PW Towards Assistant editor Zach
Heydorn here to remind you to pick up a copy of my new book.
It's called Stunning the Wrestling Artistry of Steve Austin. The project takes a long
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potrch VIP as we bask on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some
of the great matches and shows from around the world, be at the US,
Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestling's past in
the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows such as the We love
Lyger series celebrating the glorious career of Juician thunder Lighter and I was there when
shows where our guests will join me to talk about a classic bout that they
were in attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots of it
at the Progress Paradise. Detailed PWF Torch VIP subscription information and a list of
all the VIP benefits is available at pwe Torch vipinfo dot com. And yes,
all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcasts apps on iPhone and Android devices,
or you can stream them directly from our odd free VIP mobile site.
See you in the Paradise. Longing for some nostalgia, or maybe you want
to learn some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties passcast every Friday on the
PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alexanpatrick will transport you thirty years into the past
by taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow news from
the WWF and WCW and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real
time as the Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties passcasts every
Friday form the PW Torch Dailycast Feed. Do you remember when Hulkogan shocked the
world and formed the New World order, or when Stonecoat Steve Auston passed down
on the sharp Shooter to break the Hitman heart. I'm Torch contributor Frank Pettianni,
and I reviewed these shows and many more for my exclusive VIP podcast,
Pro Wrestling Than and Now. Together with a rotating chair of co hosts,
we go back ten, twenty, even thirty years, review pay per views
from top to bottom, talk about where the wrestlers were at the time,
and compare what took place then to what is taking place now. You get
exclusive access to these and other podcasts as part of your PW Torch VIP membership,
which is compatible with the Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com slash
go vip for details and sign up for him