Oh, here we all are and welcome everyone we have. Mark Antonio has
been on about fifty times or so, forty eight forty exaggerating, and Forrest
Crawford, who I have not spoken to before, so it's really nice having
you on the show. He's a cool guy. I enjoy this. I've
been in hiding for years, so you know at Dulcie Underground Base. That
was what we were talking about in the last We're talking about myths and things
in the UFO world. But thank you. So tonight we're going to be
talking besides talking about UFOs, We're going to be talking about the conference that
we're all going to be at. And I asked for how many times he
has been and it's only been thirty three out of thirty six conferences that you've
been to. Amazing. So what do you live right right nearby there?
Now? I live in San Lois, Missouri, which is about a six
hour drive from Eureka Springs, so it's not too bad. Ah uh huh.
And I the reason I am going one of the reasons, of course,
I've always enjoyed hanging around with Mark, but also that I have heard
when I started this show, people had told me. You know, if
you want to go to one of the great conferences in the country, go
to this one. And I've been told that several times. And there was
a year when I remember George and Apple was there when I can try to
remember who well, and uh that was a year I almost went, but
I couldn't quite make it, and I can't remember. It's probably snow or
something like that. But uh so that's a that's a long run, long
run of a conference. It is the only the only other one in the
country I think that's gone longer is the move On Symposium, right, which
I'm actually going to be at this year doing your job. You're the m
C and uh for the borosuck, So I'm going to watch you just to
get to pick up some pointers. Okay, good luck with that. I've
m C one move On conference and it was when I was the assistant state
director of Illinois move On and we had it in Chicago that year and I
was the I was the MC. So so I'm going to go through the
speakers. First of all, Kevin Day and Sean Cahill both have been on
my show. This guy Mark Something the Antonio of course. Yeah, Kenny
Kelly william I'm not able to read as well here Conweles. Thank you Nick
Pope, who I get to meet up in for the first no second time,
actually up in shag Harbor. I actually enjoyed hanging around. He's a
fun guy to hang with. Chad wayneless if I'm saying that right, Lee
Williams. And there's a speaker panel and it's a two days it I can't
remember. It's a two day of three day Friday, Saturday and part of
Sunday, right right, So it should be a lot of fun. Really
looking forward to it. Never been to that part of the country, so
it'll be, uh be interesting. How many times have you gone, Mark?
I think the Nancy who is the ringleader, I think I think she's
had me there at two times now, ah uh huh, maybe three?
I think two? Yep. Yeah, uh so I guess I want to
ask you, Mark, what are you going to be presenting this time?
Oh? You know what I'll tell you right now. I I through my
friend Bob Schroeder. I've researched his UFO propulsion mechanism. You know, Bob,
Yes, yeah, a little soft spoken, but you know he's got
the brain the size of a planet, right, make the joke. But
you know what, as an astronomer, I can really appreciate that he he
lends with his his ideas, lend theories or lend credence to how a UFO
could actually get here, How an occupant from another world might get here across
the vast gulf of the stars. That is something that is perplexing that we
don't have any idea about, and that ends most discussions. Well, how
are they going to get here? The distance between the stars is so huge,
Yes, of course, and that's very true. So how are they
going to get here? They have to get here by basically circumventing the need
for worry about the speed of light, because in our four dimensions x,
y z, moving your time, light is the speed limit. Man,
you can't go any faster than that, and you as a physical body,
can't go any faster than that. If you go to light speed, you
become energy. You know, Einstein's famous formula equals mc square that everybody knows
about. That actually says an awful lot in that And that's actually the short
form of the equation. Okay, there's a much longer form of the equation.
We're not gonna go into any equations, of course, not not the
conference or here, but the point being that if we can defeat light speed,
we don't have to worry about the speed limit of the universe. Okay,
So we're going to talk about the physics methodology in Layman's terms that can
explain how they can actually be here and get here vast distances travel under water
at high speeds, travel in the air at high speeds, and leave no
visible trace. Okay, all ends up coming together and making sense from the
shape of the UFO to the propulsion of the UFO. In fact, here's
a little teaser for you. They don't have any propulsion on board at all.
They don't. They don't have any propulsion. They don't need it.
Oh see force is one forrest want sa No, that's what I like about
me? Tell me all about it. Well, it's actually a dimensional shift.
See if we can get out of our four dimensions and move into this
fifth dimension out here, okay, which actually has a name within this particular
string theory variant called Randall sundrum. Ie, we don't even care about that
and the talk, but if you can get into that fifth dimension, well,
Now, basically, all you do is generate particles that pull your spacecraft
out of the four dimensions that we live in into this fifth dimension that we
don't live in, but where the universe is compressed around you. The farther
in you go, the smaller the universe becomes. So if you can go
way far in, when you come back out of that, you can be
light years away and never had never having traversed the space between point A and
point B. You just go into this fifth dimension and then pop back in
at another location. It's sort of like an elevator. You don't travel through
the actual floors of the building to go from the first floor to the fifth
floor. You start on the first, the doors closed, the doors open
again, you're on the fifth. Yes, you're traveling in the elevator,
but ignore that. What if you could go through the floors in an instant.
That's kind of like what this is and their propulsion methodology, I call
it propulsion. They're shifting methodology is all they need to do. They just
need to generate and monitor the amounts of these particles that pull them into this
fifth dimension. The more they have, the farther in they go, the
least they have only if they go in a little tiny bit, so they'll
probably oscillate. They'll probably do this the whole time that they're here. They're
going to go between our four dimensions and the fifth dimension the whole time.
Why is that so that if they want to go under water, well,
then they're neither here nor there at any one time, So they could be
all the way to the bottom of the ocean floor and not feel the ocean
pressure. All right. So this is why, for instance, unknown submerged
objects, which I witnessed, okay, on a US submarine the decades ago.
This is why unknown submerged objects can do what they do. Now,
you talk to Tim Guya day, I believe, did you not, Edward
Galadad you talk? Yes? I did, Yes, okay, all right.
You actually asked him a question about my experience that I had relayed to
you. And what was his response? Boy, you know, it's toughful.
I remember the conversation, but I just can't remember. He did not
say that he was as far as I know, he didn't say he was
familiar with that program, the fast movers, right, But he did say
that he understood that everything that I had relayed was something that only someone that
experienced that could actually relay. Oh, I see, yeah, and that's
something that that's right. Yeah, I remember him saying something one of those.
And again it's nothing I was looking for. I don't need confirmation as
something I already know, you know when I see this, Okay, this
was an experience I had I can't explain, and I subsequently confirmed with the
Joint Chiefs when I did a job for them that with specifically with one of
the chiefs, that the program exists. He said he couldn't talk about it.
He was sorry, Now, Mark, are you familiar with I can't.
I was trying to look it up quickly, but I just can't.
I remember. I believe George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell interviewed someone in the intelligence
world that said they were actually able to get inside of a craft. You
know, I mean, this is one of these stories. But he said
there was no form of propulsion that they could see. I don't know.
Did you hear that story? I haven't, but that's exactly what I would
expect. See, it's not propulsion that they use. You're not going to
find an engine. What you're going to find is a particle. Accelerator.
That's why they're round. Okay, that's why UFOs and flying sauces have always
been traditionally round. And you can put inside a triangle, you can put
a circular particle accelerator. Because it's those particle accelerators generating these particles that take
them out of our four dimensions. So they don't need engines, they don't
need gas, they don't need fuel in the sense. All they need to
do is create these particles through atomic collisions, spinning the particles in this tight
ring in their ship. Now, our particle accelerators are miles across, over
twenty miles vercern overseas. Right, the large Hadron collider and the new particle
accelerator that they added, they're called atlas. Okay, all caps Atlas.
That particular accelerator in part is searching for these very particles I'm talking about,
right, they're called Kalusik Line gravitons, and they're searching for the elusive graviton.
And this graviton is something that could provide us with a tremendous amount of
benefit when it comes to interstellar travel. Now, this isn't woo woo science.
This isn't science. Fiction. This is admittedly future science and future physics
that we don't have yet, but it's not woo woo. It's actually based
on plausible theory. And that's what I like so much about it. And
when you think about it, it literally is literally is the only way that
they could be here from there? Quite literally. Well, I'm excited to
hear that. I heard a version not quite that that and Pine Bush that
you were actually talking about the channels that they would probably travel like maps they
mapped out, like, oh yeah, they have exit and entry points.
Okay, is that what's this whole thing tied in together with that? Maybe?
Okay? But the thing is, if you think about it, these
beings are, of course more intelligent than we are. It doesn't mean they're
infallible. It doesn't mean their ships don't get into trouble and crash and they
die. I mean they're certainly fallible. You know, a herd of elk
is dangerous you. They'll kill you, but they're nowhere near as smart as
you. But they can kill you. Fire ants can kill you with enough
of them. Okay, but they're not nearly as smart as you. So
just like this to aliens, Okay, we are dangerous to them for the
same reason we're dangerous in numbers, we're dangerous as individuals. They're not They're
not all powerful beings that can just go and fry you. Okay. They
may have neurological control devices. Yes, if you're studying biology, you certainly
would. We have that. Now we're doing that now with other creatures.
We actually have these stunners and things like that, and andestic anesthetic applications that
we have. So we're in our infancy with that. But we're getting to
that. We're gonna do that, you know. And so when these creatures
are applying the gulf of the universe, plying the gulf between the stars,
they're actually like cartographers. They're mapping. There are exit points and entry points
all across the universe wherever they go. Let's stay on Earth for a moment.
Let's say that you watch UFO travel through the sky, right, and
it goes at an unbelievable speed. You know, wow, whoa look at
that? How is it doing that? Well? The question is how could
anyone withstand the forces going on in there? Right? That's the first thing
you'll say, and that comes up often. But wait a minute, if
you were in that ship. It feels like this. You wouldn't know,
you'd feel nothing. Wait, what how could that be? Well, the
way that could be is because you're not physically moving. You're shifting from our
four dimensions to this fifth dimension and then back in the four dimensions, slightly
ahead of where you were. See, they don't have propulsion, they don't
have tires and wheels, they can't roll on roads. So what they have
to do is the only thing they can do. They shift out and in
out and in, out and in, and when they come back in,
they go a little bit ahead of where they last were. I know that
sounds crazy and complicated, but it's actually quite simple and elegant. The accelerator's
doing all the work. And so if you think, do you think eventually
that humans would be able to travel like that? I do as a matter
of fact. And the reason I do is because look at the work that
Lawrence Livermore is doing right now. Okay, Lawrence Livermore achieved a sustained nuclear
fusion reaction. Okay, not exactly. And Okay, they didn't actually get
out any more energy than they put in. Okay, in fact, they
got out less than they put it, I get it. However, it
was sustained. It was something that lasted for longer than it ever has.
So we're getting close to sustaining a fusion reaction. I know. Why do
I bring that up? Well, go over across the sea now to Sern
again, to that large hadron collide of the Atlas project. And now,
if you think about it, they're looking for these calusive line gravitons, these
particles, these elusive particles that could actually be the crux of shifting a vessel
from the four dimensions into the fifth dimension and back again. But how do
you make those particles go back to Livermore? You need a fusion reactor to
do it. Oh oh if Now, if a Livermore is generating a fusion
reactor and actually is successful, all right, what does that mean? That
means you're going to end up being able to generate these particles with a fusion
reactor and then use the particles discovered by CERN to shift in and out of
the four dimensions into the fifth and back again. You know, so I
think I think that this process all right, Now, there's a whole lot
of hurdles here. I understand that. Okay, synchrotron radiation. Right,
you try to confine particles in a circular tube like we do, it generates
this synchrotron deadly radiation that comes out radially from the tube in all directions.
You know, if the tube looks like this, Okay, the radiation is
going out radially in all directions, right, So you got to you gotta
obviously shield for that. But the question is how we have to do it
in mile diameters miles diameter of our rings, these particle rings to generate these
particles, going to make them faster and faster and faster until bam we make
a collision. Well, if you're advanced enough, maybe you figured out how
to do it with a thirty foot diameter craft, which is the typical craft
we we hear about. And so your outer ring of your accelerator is in
that thirty foot diameter And where would you be right in here in the middle,
right in the middle, right in the middle. Yeah, And that
actually is consistent with what has been observed, reported and theorized for a long
time. So I really think this is a revolution in not only interstellard travel,
but in understanding and so so as time moves forward, it'll bear out
whether this is true or not. I'll be the first one to say,
Nope, I was wrong. I'd be the first one to be happy to
I don't care. I'm on it now because it needs to be more It
needs to be researched further and more deeply for a better understanding of what's going
on. Martin, you know what do you think Forrest? Well, this
is one of my favorite topics. So I'm actually looking very forward to your
talk. I went to school to be a physics major just so I could
figure out how these things flew. Well, I never got my degree in
physics, and I haven't figured out how these things well. Actually I might
have figured out how they fly, but I haven't been able to build one
or do the math. So I love this topic and I can't wait to
hear you talk. Hey, check this out. Okay, Now, people
talk about them not feeling our gravity and being able to move as if they
have anti gravity. Right, what is anti gravity? Well? What is
gravity? Yeah? Okay, let's let's let's actually ask the question and we'll
get to that. Actually, that's very important, and that the answer to
that question is part of the fundamental nature of what's wrong with our physics because
you know as well as me that we don't know exactly what it is.
We know that gravity forms waves like ripples in the water. We've seen the
ripples from colliding neutron stars and from uh, you know, colliding black holes
mergers. We've seen those ripples in space time out in the universe. Right,
We know that we've seen it. So we know that light acts like
a wave. We also know that light acts like a particle. We know
that we can assign a wave function to how electrons operate, and we know
that we talk about them as particles as well. You see the theme here.
All of our fundamental particles, and by by and large and all of
our fundamental physics sees duality wave and particle nature. Gravity's the odd ball.
We have Einstein's that we never see gravitational waves, and we have Einstein was
wrong, not wrong. He wasn't right about everything. Come on, he
wasn't right about everything. But think about that. Okay, so we see
gravitational waves now, So wouldn't it make sense that the gravitational particle is something
that we would find as well, called the graviton. We have photons,
we have a wave of light. We have a photon of light, right,
we have a wave equation for electrons, we have a particle system that
we can describe an electron with. So it makes sense that for gravity we
would expect to find the particle side of gravity, the gravitons that are holding
you to your chair right now. For us, for instance, Martin,
probably a little more so depending on his latitude. I don't know. I'm
a pretty chubby guy. So I'm talking about latitude. Makes a little difference
in altitude, Yeah, laud attitude, yeah, yeah, yeah, latitude
and attitude, yeah, lattitude. Hey, that's good. So but when
we talk about the gravitons that are holding us to our chairs right now,
if we think about gravit gravitons as gravity particles, then the ones we're talking
about with the calusive client theory, they're tended to sixteenth times stronger than the
ones holding us to our chair. So wait a minute, I wouldn't that
destroy everything if they showed up on our atmosphere? Yes and no, because
when they generate these particles, what they do, this is part of what
Bob talks about Schroeder, is they generate micro black holes we know micro black
holes can exist, and micro black holes they suck but on bo right.
But they're also they're also very short lived. They only last for a short
period of time, just a few nanoseconds, and then they pop out of
exist. So what good are they? Well, if you keep a general
population of them around your ship, then you did, then you will see
that you'll have a constant supply of these particles. The more you put out
there, the more particles there are, the farther into this fifth dimension you
can go. Okay, the lead less you put in there, then the
less you go. If you if you turn it off and you stop going
out into the heather, you go the fifth dimension. Okay, Then he
did it to me last time I talked about it. I did, yes.
So if you can go back and forth from this fifth dimension like this,
then what you will find is that to anyone watching you do this with
their eyes here in our four dimensions, your ship would look like it's shimmering,
as has been observed. Your ship might look like it's changing color,
as has been observed. Your ship might look like it's zipping really fast through
the sky as has been observed. It might be round because it's a particle
accelerator, as has been observed. So now I'm an astronomer and I can
talk about color changes as atmospheric scintillation. It's a process, it's something we
know. I could talk about seeing something here in the sky, then suddenly
it looks like it's there. That's the autokinetic effect, because your eye can't
focus on any spotany in the sky very well, right, exactly, it's
an evolutionary issue we have. Okay, it wasn't important to be able to
do that, so we never really hone that technique, and I can explain
a lot of the other issues, like whether thing seems to pop out of
sight and then come back into view, something on the edge of visibility.
Sure, there's a lot of physical things that we see that we can describe
in ordinary physics terms with ordinary explanations, but it doesn't mean it doesn't mean
that that's the only explanation, and it doesn't mean that we can't share different
effects with different phenomena. They do overlap, So it's possible. It's possible
that everything we're seeing with these UFOs is something that is the result of these
calusive line gravitons being in use. Mark, we're talking about magneto electric radiation,
not electromagnetic radiation, dark matter, dark energy. No, you know,
actually, for us, we're talking about believe it or not, the
only thing we're talking about is gravity. UFOs use massive gravitational fields in order
to move in this theory. Let me throw this one out there and I'll
probably start I'll start a fight or send us down a rabbit. Good.
I think that I think that gravity might be a pushing force, not an
attracting force. That we're not being pulled down to the planet, but we're
being pushed down to the planet by ane that evenly permeates the universe and all
directions coming out of black holes. Take your pick. And so whenever I
think about it from a propulsion standpoint, from a simple propulsion system to get
around the planet, like you say, you don't need a propulsion system.
All you need to do is neutralize or deflect that gravitational push a little bit,
and now you have made yourself lighter. Actually I left out a very
very important piece too for us. And maybe this will align with what you're
saying. Maybe it won't. Well, it's time for a commercial break.
Just better not He's kidding. He doesn't mean it, folks, No,
But the most important thing is that the other thing that these micro black holes
do is the most important thing that they do. And I can't believe I
didn't mention it. I think it was on such a roll that I forgot
to mention it. So I apologize. But the micro black holes do one
another very important thing. They might pull in a little bit of the light,
okay, and thus make your objects change color. They might, they
might make them shimmer and vanish because they're pulling in some of the light that
these things are emitting. But they also are pulling in and eating, so
to speak, the earth gravitons. So, in other words, Earth gravity
cannot reach these ships. So that's why when people talk about them, they
seem to sometimes act like falling leaves and just through weird motions that seem very
fluid. They seem very very wrong, right, They just seem like it
looks like a floating leave. Who could handle that? Well, The occupants
don't care. They're shifting. They don't care, they're shifting in and out.
You know, to them, there is no upper down. They don't
have any upper down until they mitigate the production of those particles so that they
can set down on the planet. And by the way, when they do
that, that's when they're vulnerable. I was gonna say, how could they
crash? I guess connect with the planet. But thank you for all that,
Mark, and I understand you know what I mean. Sorry, I
wanted to talk to you Mark at some point because I think that the web
is possibly changing some science just by some of the things that they're discovering.
But that will talk at another time. But I think it's really interesting and
maybe the cosmological constant was actually accurate. Who knows. I mean, these
all these things that they're trying to figure out, But I want to know
who forest is in a forest if you would. It sounds like you've had
an interest in the UFO topic for a long time. Did you have a
personal sighting or anything, or just an interest. No, I did.
When I was ten years old, I saw a disc shaped craft a land
in a farm field about one hundred and twenty feet away from me. It
was about thirty five feet in diameter and kind of looked like the Pizza Hunt
logo, and I had a short stout sort of antenna looking thing in the
center. Some windows around the canopy part of it, and while I watched
it, landing gear came out and it sat down on the ground, and
my best friend and his parents saw it. Also. We were driving back
from Harden, Illinois, near just north of Pierre Marquette State Park. If
you want to look on a map and figure out where this happened. And
as it turns out, there's tons of OFFO activity in that area historically.
And so I saw this thing land and even at ten years old, I
was like, that ain't from around here, you know, And I got
interested and got involved. When I was thirteen, I was collecting books.
I gave my first speech on propulsion theory and detection methods when I was eighteen
years old here in Saint Louis. Oh, well, before you, before
you move on from that, can you describe the rest of that particular encounter.
I mean, did you see the thing take off or anything like that.
No, it was we were driving back from like a my friend's uncle
had a house near the river, and we were doing, you know,
a barbecue all day and we were driving back at night, and we were
seeing this glow moving around like behind the hills, behind the trees. We
couldn't see what was causing the glow, but it was weird enough that at
some point, and this was in the in the late sixties, so there
was a lot going on, and we even joked I was probably one of
those UFOs they're talking about on TV. And my friend's dad was ex military,
and it was odd enough that at some point he pulled over next to
a field where we could see the glow that wasn't moving, so we could
get out and see what it was. And so I was the first one
to start getting out of the car, saw it hovering about fifteen feet off
the ground, and then the landing gear came out and it sat down on
the ground. They started getting out of the car and saw it. When
my friend's dad saw this thing, it scared him more than I've ever seen
a grown person scared that he screamed for us to get back in the car.
And that's when the Nash Rambler exceeded its design capabilities. Yeah, he
floored it and we were literally just screeching on these little country roads in the
middle of the night to get away from it. And he would never allow
either of the three of us to ever talk about it again. If we
brought it up, he would get violently angry at us. Wow, And
so that was the only that was the only thing that happened that night,
Yeah, it was. It turns out years later I found out that other
things had happened earlier in the day that even as a lifelong UFO researcher,
abduction researcher, you name it, I did not remember these things that had
happened earlier in the day until I allowed myself to be hypnotized. I was
actually trying to recover to see if there were any more memories about that night
that you're asking about, because that's one of those you go, well,
if you saw at land, something happened. Well, it turns out it
didn't, but something happened earlier in the day that I had not remembered for
thirty something years, and there were other objects that we saw earlier in the
day. So it really deepens the mystery quite a bit. I can tell
you. Wow, Wow, that's that's pretty interesting. And so it sounds
like right away you had an interest in the topic. If you if you
did a talk when you were eighteen years old, that's pretty amazing. Yeah,
it was at the UFO study group of Greater Saint Louis, which at
the time was probably the largest monthly UFO group in the country. And the
people that would show up at that at that meeting, just you know,
on a whim, would be like doctor Heinek, Walt Andres the Lorenzans.
Uh. You know Ted Phillips was here in Missouri. He would show up
on a monthly basis. Any one of those guys could just walk in and
sit down in the audience. Wow. Yeah, that's pretty amazing icons golden
age of your apology. Yeah. I have to just ask you to this
question because I love this show. Has anyone when if you watch the very
familiar with this show, I love It's a riot. Uh, you end
up just loving this dysfunctional childlike alien that really doesn't mean to do harm,
but he doesn't care if he does harm any If you don't do what I
want, I'll eat your children. That's what we do on our planet planet.
We leave them out on the ice to die. Yeah. Wow,
you are watching it. Yeah, Yeah, it's great, it's great.
So, yeah, getting back to you for us, So you've had this
interest for a long time. What other types of involvement have you had in
like involved in you mof On and things like that. Yeah, whenever I
was a teenager, I started doing investigative work, and mostly it was carrying
stuff for these really cool old guys of ethology, you know. And uh,
like I said, I went away to college to be a physics major
literally to try and figure out how they flew. Really well, you were
serious about that, Oh yeah, I wasn't kidding about that. I went
to it in Chicago on a Navy scholarship to be a physicist. They wanted
me to do reactors for the Navy, and I went, no, no,
want that. But and then so then eventually I got involved with mof
ON as a field investigator and then the assistant state director, and then when
Tom Stolts died, I became state director of Illinois Moufon for eleven years and
then passed it on to Mark one of our good friends, Dave Marler.
So I was the state director for Moufon from ninety one to two thousand and
two or three something like that. And I actually was on the staff of
Movefon as the computer specialist, and I designed the first database that all of
the paper records from Walt Anders's garage were entered into a computer for the very
first time in a database that I designed. Wow, so that was a
long time. Yeah, Walt used to run moufon by file folders out in
his garage. It was hilarious, it was crazy. Yeah I Knewhi when
he had dark hair. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he was an awesome
guy. But yeah, he was not good at filing. So yeah,
we got it all in the computer. And now you can search all that
data. I guess thanks to me. If I'm going to brag about something,
I massa you may, you may. You deserve it. Except at
the moment, I mean, there's been a denial of service attack on moufon,
and our our case management system is down and the FBI is involved actually
trying to find the call. It seems like a hack of some kind.
Yeah, it's been a it's been a wicked hack. So that's just,
you know, the crap we deal with some mark. There's a question for
you, when will you be following up with the Hudson Valley saga? Yeah?
I answered why, but in the chat that it's okay, there's no
one yet that wants to actually do that because that costs money to actually put
that research I want to do it. I've been wanting to do it.
Is the day one. I just finished working with that producer that was on
that show on another program, and you know, so hopefully, you know,
he'll get the bug to do it again, because I think it doesn't
have to be a show. I mean, I don't care, just research.
You know, we need someone on to write the cost of that,
you know, I know we'd have to get Ben out here again and stuff,
you know, and get those Oak Island guys. I think they're about
to find that treasure. They're going to be looking for something to do with.
That show needs something to do. Yeah, well, they're always about
to find the treasure. They're always about to finding I was talking about that
the other day. They found a button. We'd make so much fun of
them, but I can't stop watching that stupid show. Well then it's a
success, Yeah, sure it is, right, Yeah, I don't know
how many seasons it's been. But at least nobody's dying yet, right,
nobody's dying. Well, right, that's it. One of them needs to
take a fall so they can find the treasure. Right. And it had
always killed me when Travis. I love Travis, but he's on that show.
He went on that show and he's talking about stuff, and I was
like, Travis, why don't you call up one of your buddies and get
some gravity anomaly maps so that we can see underneath the ground with that good
government technology and point to right where the stuff is. I don't know,
or just do a gravitational nominally study like the oil companies do exactly. You
know, there was in reality, there was very little actually buried treasure.
You know, those guys did all like there was so much more they were
involved, and for them to take the time to make such an elaborate trap
and all that, I think it's, well, something happened there, but
I don't know what it was. Maybe going down a rabbit hole here,
aren't we Yeah, we've got to stare away a small one. If they
dug up a UFO, that would be cool. But yeah it was the
UFOs did it? Yes? Yeah? So, uh, this has been
This has been a lot of fun and uh for us. I'm gonna have
to have you back on the show for a regular episode. It would be
great to talk to you and to do that. I got I got some
great stories I can tell you that well, let's hear one of them right
now. I'm going to put you right on the spot. Okay, all
right, best again. I'll give you the bullet points. And this is
a week long discussion. You bring the beer. I'll tell you the whole
story, but i'll give you the bullet points. Okay. Most interesting case
I ever investigated was here in Missouri. We called it the Oscar case.
This was a guy that Stan Friedman actually turned us on to this guy.
He heard about him when he was speaking at a conference in Florida. So
he passed the information to Bruce Woodhaman, who used to be the state director
for Missouri Muffon. Bruce called a couple of us up. We went up
and we found this guy with nothing more than a name in the town that
he lived in, and he claimed to have been involved in a He was
on a Delta squad back in the late fifties, was involved in a crash
retrieval operation where they recovered an intact UFO that had minor damage on the inside,
two dead aliens one live alien that was trapped on board the ship.
He was his crew group were called in to do security around it. They
were stationed at the contrary Peck Submarine based in San Diego. When they got
the call, he said, they went underground and got in the tubes,
what they called shooting the tubes. They got in the tubes and he snuck
a watch on. They always make you take metal off when you ride the
tubes, but he snuck a watch on because he wanted to see how long
it was going to be to where they were going. It was a little
bit less than twenty minutes from San Diego and they got out or near min
base in North Dakota. If you do the math, that's two thousand miles
an hour underground in a tunnel. Okay, back in the late fifties.
His crew formed security around the craft. Some guy named Doctor Bear used some
sonic equipment just like in the movie the Bamboo Saucer, and the side of
the craft looked liquid and it opened up like an iris. He went into
the craft. There was a live alien pinned against one of the walls.
Because the inside buckled when it ashed and pinned his leg. He telepathically communicated
with the or the alien telepathically communicated with him, and they came in freed
the alien, and because he could so easily communicate with him. He was
he was dubbed as the liaison, so he communicated between the scientists in the
military and the alien. They did. They tried to ease the alien's pain
with opioid stuff, which had no effect on its physiology, but they went
ahead and did experimental surgery on it. Anyway. At one point he took
the side of the alien and pulled his service revolver and said, you're not
going to hurt this guy anymore. They immediately removed him from the project and
debriefed him in in a military hospital in out East I want to say maybe
Virginia, uh, for like three months, and then honorably discharged him,
and he had in touch with the aliens or they've been in touch with him
ever since. So we went up and we did a seven year long investigation
where we went up and interviewed this guy about three or four times a year.
And UH, every single time we went up to talk to this guy,
something weird happened. I saw UFOs, we heard strange things. Just
I again, I could go on for about four hours and just tell you
the weird stuff that happened while we were up there investigating this guy. And
remember Martin. I'm going to be with him, so I'll get to this
scoop. Yeah, I'll get to the schoolh I'll tell you the story.
Have you on the show, I'll tell you the whole story. Yeah,
that's so fast. You never heard, never heard any part of this one.
So that's fantastic. It's it's suddenly completely relevant again because it dovetails into
all of this whistleblower stuff. Everything this guy said. We were either able
to verify his crew and military career, the guy he reported to all this
kind of stuff. And then I can tell you through personal experience, I
don't think the guy was lying because weird stuff happened to us every time we
went up there. And so yeah, it's a fascinating story. Excellent,
that's one of them. That's one story. Wow. Well, I'm looking
forward to meeting you, Forrest, and it's been a real pleasure of having
you both on and Mark, I'm I can't wait to hear that the propulsion
again. And actually I have been in touch with the Robert Schroter Bob Schroter,
and he is going to be back. He wants to do the show
in person, which makes it kind of difficult because I have to be you
know, he wants to meet up in Massachusetts, so it's a little tricky
for me. But other than that will not mean anymore. No, No,
I'm now between New Hampshire and South Carolina, so back and forth.
But we'll see you. Did I hear you correctly? You're going to be
at the conference. I will be there, coming in UH, going on
a cruise that day the week ahead and flying from Florida to UH to the
Ozark. Yeah, excellent. Keep your camera going when you're on that cruise.
You might have some pictures to show us. Yeah I did, the
first time I went on one of those cruises, I thought for sure I
saw UFO. Ended up being a plane pulling a banner just very far away,
and boy did it look great too, And if it hadn't turned,
I would have thought it was. But thank you both so much, and
really looking forward to seeing you coming right up in a few weeks. And
all right, thanks so much and take care, okay, thank you later. Mark