WEBVTT 1 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:34.280 Oh, here we all are and welcome everyone we have. Mark Antonio has 2 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:40.679 been on about fifty times or so, forty eight forty exaggerating, and Forrest 3 00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:46.840 Crawford, who I have not spoken to before, so it's really nice having 4 00:00:46.840 --> 00:00:50.759 you on the show. He's a cool guy. I enjoy this. I've 5 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:55.439 been in hiding for years, so you know at Dulcie Underground Base. That 6 00:00:55.479 --> 00:00:58.920 was what we were talking about in the last We're talking about myths and things 7 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:02.280 in the UFO world. But thank you. So tonight we're going to be 8 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:06.959 talking besides talking about UFOs, We're going to be talking about the conference that 9 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.959 we're all going to be at. And I asked for how many times he 10 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:17.640 has been and it's only been thirty three out of thirty six conferences that you've 11 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:23.480 been to. Amazing. So what do you live right right nearby there? 12 00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:27.040 Now? I live in San Lois, Missouri, which is about a six 13 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:32.840 hour drive from Eureka Springs, so it's not too bad. Ah uh huh. 14 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:37.400 And I the reason I am going one of the reasons, of course, 15 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:42.920 I've always enjoyed hanging around with Mark, but also that I have heard 16 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:47.719 when I started this show, people had told me. You know, if 17 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:51.920 you want to go to one of the great conferences in the country, go 18 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:56.840 to this one. And I've been told that several times. And there was 19 00:01:56.879 --> 00:01:59.400 a year when I remember George and Apple was there when I can try to 20 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:02.959 remember who well, and uh that was a year I almost went, but 21 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:06.840 I couldn't quite make it, and I can't remember. It's probably snow or 22 00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:12.960 something like that. But uh so that's a that's a long run, long 23 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:16.360 run of a conference. It is the only the only other one in the 24 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:22.599 country I think that's gone longer is the move On Symposium, right, which 25 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:25.599 I'm actually going to be at this year doing your job. You're the m 26 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:31.599 C and uh for the borosuck, So I'm going to watch you just to 27 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:38.639 get to pick up some pointers. Okay, good luck with that. I've 28 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:43.439 m C one move On conference and it was when I was the assistant state 29 00:02:43.479 --> 00:02:46.680 director of Illinois move On and we had it in Chicago that year and I 30 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:53.240 was the I was the MC. So so I'm going to go through the 31 00:02:53.280 --> 00:03:00.000 speakers. First of all, Kevin Day and Sean Cahill both have been on 32 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:05.960 my show. This guy Mark Something the Antonio of course. Yeah, Kenny 33 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:14.120 Kelly william I'm not able to read as well here Conweles. Thank you Nick 34 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:17.199 Pope, who I get to meet up in for the first no second time, 35 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:23.000 actually up in shag Harbor. I actually enjoyed hanging around. He's a 36 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:29.599 fun guy to hang with. Chad wayneless if I'm saying that right, Lee 37 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:35.439 Williams. And there's a speaker panel and it's a two days it I can't 38 00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:39.560 remember. It's a two day of three day Friday, Saturday and part of 39 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:44.479 Sunday, right right, So it should be a lot of fun. Really 40 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:46.199 looking forward to it. Never been to that part of the country, so 41 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:50.280 it'll be, uh be interesting. How many times have you gone, Mark? 42 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:58.639 I think the Nancy who is the ringleader, I think I think she's 43 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:02.840 had me there at two times now, ah uh huh, maybe three? 44 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:09.039 I think two? Yep. Yeah, uh so I guess I want to 45 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:11.680 ask you, Mark, what are you going to be presenting this time? 46 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:18.160 Oh? You know what I'll tell you right now. I I through my 47 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:28.000 friend Bob Schroeder. I've researched his UFO propulsion mechanism. You know, Bob, 48 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:32.120 Yes, yeah, a little soft spoken, but you know he's got 49 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:36.800 the brain the size of a planet, right, make the joke. But 50 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:43.480 you know what, as an astronomer, I can really appreciate that he he 51 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:48.959 lends with his his ideas, lend theories or lend credence to how a UFO 52 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:54.279 could actually get here, How an occupant from another world might get here across 53 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:59.240 the vast gulf of the stars. That is something that is perplexing that we 54 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:03.199 don't have any idea about, and that ends most discussions. Well, how 55 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.759 are they going to get here? The distance between the stars is so huge, 56 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:10.079 Yes, of course, and that's very true. So how are they 57 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:15.480 going to get here? They have to get here by basically circumventing the need 58 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:18.920 for worry about the speed of light, because in our four dimensions x, 59 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:23.439 y z, moving your time, light is the speed limit. Man, 60 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:27.319 you can't go any faster than that, and you as a physical body, 61 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:29.839 can't go any faster than that. If you go to light speed, you 62 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:35.240 become energy. You know, Einstein's famous formula equals mc square that everybody knows 63 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:41.240 about. That actually says an awful lot in that And that's actually the short 64 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.720 form of the equation. Okay, there's a much longer form of the equation. 65 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:46.639 We're not gonna go into any equations, of course, not not the 66 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:53.639 conference or here, but the point being that if we can defeat light speed, 67 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:58.360 we don't have to worry about the speed limit of the universe. Okay, 68 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:06.680 So we're going to talk about the physics methodology in Layman's terms that can 69 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:14.600 explain how they can actually be here and get here vast distances travel under water 70 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:16.199 at high speeds, travel in the air at high speeds, and leave no 71 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:24.800 visible trace. Okay, all ends up coming together and making sense from the 72 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:29.920 shape of the UFO to the propulsion of the UFO. In fact, here's 73 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:32.519 a little teaser for you. They don't have any propulsion on board at all. 74 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:38.199 They don't. They don't have any propulsion. They don't need it. 75 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:43.519 Oh see force is one forrest want sa No, that's what I like about 76 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:47.480 me? Tell me all about it. Well, it's actually a dimensional shift. 77 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:50.560 See if we can get out of our four dimensions and move into this 78 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:56.600 fifth dimension out here, okay, which actually has a name within this particular 79 00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:00.519 string theory variant called Randall sundrum. Ie, we don't even care about that 80 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.920 and the talk, but if you can get into that fifth dimension, well, 81 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:09.480 Now, basically, all you do is generate particles that pull your spacecraft 82 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:14.319 out of the four dimensions that we live in into this fifth dimension that we 83 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:17.839 don't live in, but where the universe is compressed around you. The farther 84 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:21.439 in you go, the smaller the universe becomes. So if you can go 85 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:27.079 way far in, when you come back out of that, you can be 86 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:32.759 light years away and never had never having traversed the space between point A and 87 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:36.920 point B. You just go into this fifth dimension and then pop back in 88 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:44.079 at another location. It's sort of like an elevator. You don't travel through 89 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:46.959 the actual floors of the building to go from the first floor to the fifth 90 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:48.879 floor. You start on the first, the doors closed, the doors open 91 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:51.720 again, you're on the fifth. Yes, you're traveling in the elevator, 92 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:56.680 but ignore that. What if you could go through the floors in an instant. 93 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:03.439 That's kind of like what this is and their propulsion methodology, I call 94 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:07.199 it propulsion. They're shifting methodology is all they need to do. They just 95 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:13.279 need to generate and monitor the amounts of these particles that pull them into this 96 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:16.160 fifth dimension. The more they have, the farther in they go, the 97 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:20.120 least they have only if they go in a little tiny bit, so they'll 98 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:24.639 probably oscillate. They'll probably do this the whole time that they're here. They're 99 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:28.240 going to go between our four dimensions and the fifth dimension the whole time. 100 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:33.159 Why is that so that if they want to go under water, well, 101 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:39.080 then they're neither here nor there at any one time, So they could be 102 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:41.120 all the way to the bottom of the ocean floor and not feel the ocean 103 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:46.320 pressure. All right. So this is why, for instance, unknown submerged 104 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:52.360 objects, which I witnessed, okay, on a US submarine the decades ago. 105 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.879 This is why unknown submerged objects can do what they do. Now, 106 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:01.399 you talk to Tim Guya day, I believe, did you not, Edward 107 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.399 Galadad you talk? Yes? I did, Yes, okay, all right. 108 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:09.200 You actually asked him a question about my experience that I had relayed to 109 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:13.759 you. And what was his response? Boy, you know, it's toughful. 110 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:18.679 I remember the conversation, but I just can't remember. He did not 111 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:22.320 say that he was as far as I know, he didn't say he was 112 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:26.240 familiar with that program, the fast movers, right, But he did say 113 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:33.120 that he understood that everything that I had relayed was something that only someone that 114 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:35.559 experienced that could actually relay. Oh, I see, yeah, and that's 115 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.759 something that that's right. Yeah, I remember him saying something one of those. 116 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:43.360 And again it's nothing I was looking for. I don't need confirmation as 117 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:46.679 something I already know, you know when I see this, Okay, this 118 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:52.720 was an experience I had I can't explain, and I subsequently confirmed with the 119 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:56.440 Joint Chiefs when I did a job for them that with specifically with one of 120 00:09:56.440 --> 00:10:01.240 the chiefs, that the program exists. He said he couldn't talk about it. 121 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:07.120 He was sorry, Now, Mark, are you familiar with I can't. 122 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:09.480 I was trying to look it up quickly, but I just can't. 123 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:15.759 I remember. I believe George Knapp and Jeremy Corbell interviewed someone in the intelligence 124 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:20.080 world that said they were actually able to get inside of a craft. You 125 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:22.960 know, I mean, this is one of these stories. But he said 126 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.120 there was no form of propulsion that they could see. I don't know. 127 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:28.320 Did you hear that story? I haven't, but that's exactly what I would 128 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:33.120 expect. See, it's not propulsion that they use. You're not going to 129 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:37.080 find an engine. What you're going to find is a particle. Accelerator. 130 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:41.120 That's why they're round. Okay, that's why UFOs and flying sauces have always 131 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:45.600 been traditionally round. And you can put inside a triangle, you can put 132 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:52.320 a circular particle accelerator. Because it's those particle accelerators generating these particles that take 133 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:56.080 them out of our four dimensions. So they don't need engines, they don't 134 00:10:56.120 --> 00:11:01.000 need gas, they don't need fuel in the sense. All they need to 135 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:09.399 do is create these particles through atomic collisions, spinning the particles in this tight 136 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:13.279 ring in their ship. Now, our particle accelerators are miles across, over 137 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:20.159 twenty miles vercern overseas. Right, the large Hadron collider and the new particle 138 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:24.240 accelerator that they added, they're called atlas. Okay, all caps Atlas. 139 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:31.200 That particular accelerator in part is searching for these very particles I'm talking about, 140 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:37.159 right, they're called Kalusik Line gravitons, and they're searching for the elusive graviton. 141 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:43.720 And this graviton is something that could provide us with a tremendous amount of 142 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:48.080 benefit when it comes to interstellar travel. Now, this isn't woo woo science. 143 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:56.720 This isn't science. Fiction. This is admittedly future science and future physics 144 00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:58.799 that we don't have yet, but it's not woo woo. It's actually based 145 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:05.879 on plausible theory. And that's what I like so much about it. And 146 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:09.879 when you think about it, it literally is literally is the only way that 147 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:16.480 they could be here from there? Quite literally. Well, I'm excited to 148 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:22.600 hear that. I heard a version not quite that that and Pine Bush that 149 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:31.480 you were actually talking about the channels that they would probably travel like maps they 150 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:35.399 mapped out, like, oh yeah, they have exit and entry points. 151 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:39.720 Okay, is that what's this whole thing tied in together with that? Maybe? 152 00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:46.480 Okay? But the thing is, if you think about it, these 153 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:50.679 beings are, of course more intelligent than we are. It doesn't mean they're 154 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.679 infallible. It doesn't mean their ships don't get into trouble and crash and they 155 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:58.279 die. I mean they're certainly fallible. You know, a herd of elk 156 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:01.679 is dangerous you. They'll kill you, but they're nowhere near as smart as 157 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:05.759 you. But they can kill you. Fire ants can kill you with enough 158 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:09.919 of them. Okay, but they're not nearly as smart as you. So 159 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:15.720 just like this to aliens, Okay, we are dangerous to them for the 160 00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:20.799 same reason we're dangerous in numbers, we're dangerous as individuals. They're not They're 161 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:24.720 not all powerful beings that can just go and fry you. Okay. They 162 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:31.600 may have neurological control devices. Yes, if you're studying biology, you certainly 163 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:33.440 would. We have that. Now we're doing that now with other creatures. 164 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:41.639 We actually have these stunners and things like that, and andestic anesthetic applications that 165 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:46.120 we have. So we're in our infancy with that. But we're getting to 166 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:50.919 that. We're gonna do that, you know. And so when these creatures 167 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:54.360 are applying the gulf of the universe, plying the gulf between the stars, 168 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:01.840 they're actually like cartographers. They're mapping. There are exit points and entry points 169 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:05.480 all across the universe wherever they go. Let's stay on Earth for a moment. 170 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:09.440 Let's say that you watch UFO travel through the sky, right, and 171 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.679 it goes at an unbelievable speed. You know, wow, whoa look at 172 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:18.039 that? How is it doing that? Well? The question is how could 173 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:22.600 anyone withstand the forces going on in there? Right? That's the first thing 174 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:26.039 you'll say, and that comes up often. But wait a minute, if 175 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:30.519 you were in that ship. It feels like this. You wouldn't know, 176 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:35.840 you'd feel nothing. Wait, what how could that be? Well, the 177 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:41.799 way that could be is because you're not physically moving. You're shifting from our 178 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:46.080 four dimensions to this fifth dimension and then back in the four dimensions, slightly 179 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:48.639 ahead of where you were. See, they don't have propulsion, they don't 180 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:52.960 have tires and wheels, they can't roll on roads. So what they have 181 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:56.799 to do is the only thing they can do. They shift out and in 182 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.799 out and in, out and in, and when they come back in, 183 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:03.639 they go a little bit ahead of where they last were. I know that 184 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:07.879 sounds crazy and complicated, but it's actually quite simple and elegant. The accelerator's 185 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:11.720 doing all the work. And so if you think, do you think eventually 186 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:16.240 that humans would be able to travel like that? I do as a matter 187 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:20.200 of fact. And the reason I do is because look at the work that 188 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:24.679 Lawrence Livermore is doing right now. Okay, Lawrence Livermore achieved a sustained nuclear 189 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:28.960 fusion reaction. Okay, not exactly. And Okay, they didn't actually get 190 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:31.799 out any more energy than they put in. Okay, in fact, they 191 00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:35.279 got out less than they put it, I get it. However, it 192 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.519 was sustained. It was something that lasted for longer than it ever has. 193 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:46.240 So we're getting close to sustaining a fusion reaction. I know. Why do 194 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:48.919 I bring that up? Well, go over across the sea now to Sern 195 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:52.799 again, to that large hadron collide of the Atlas project. And now, 196 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:56.960 if you think about it, they're looking for these calusive line gravitons, these 197 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:03.480 particles, these elusive particles that could actually be the crux of shifting a vessel 198 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:07.519 from the four dimensions into the fifth dimension and back again. But how do 199 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:12.200 you make those particles go back to Livermore? You need a fusion reactor to 200 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:18.679 do it. Oh oh if Now, if a Livermore is generating a fusion 201 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.759 reactor and actually is successful, all right, what does that mean? That 202 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:27.600 means you're going to end up being able to generate these particles with a fusion 203 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:33.759 reactor and then use the particles discovered by CERN to shift in and out of 204 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:37.960 the four dimensions into the fifth and back again. You know, so I 205 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:42.759 think I think that this process all right, Now, there's a whole lot 206 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:47.840 of hurdles here. I understand that. Okay, synchrotron radiation. Right, 207 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:52.200 you try to confine particles in a circular tube like we do, it generates 208 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:57.519 this synchrotron deadly radiation that comes out radially from the tube in all directions. 209 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:00.200 You know, if the tube looks like this, Okay, the radiation is 210 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.359 going out radially in all directions, right, So you got to you gotta 211 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:08.400 obviously shield for that. But the question is how we have to do it 212 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:15.240 in mile diameters miles diameter of our rings, these particle rings to generate these 213 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.440 particles, going to make them faster and faster and faster until bam we make 214 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.440 a collision. Well, if you're advanced enough, maybe you figured out how 215 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:26.720 to do it with a thirty foot diameter craft, which is the typical craft 216 00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:32.240 we we hear about. And so your outer ring of your accelerator is in 217 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:37.160 that thirty foot diameter And where would you be right in here in the middle, 218 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.559 right in the middle, right in the middle. Yeah, And that 219 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:48.119 actually is consistent with what has been observed, reported and theorized for a long 220 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:56.680 time. So I really think this is a revolution in not only interstellard travel, 221 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:03.599 but in understanding and so so as time moves forward, it'll bear out 222 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:04.720 whether this is true or not. I'll be the first one to say, 223 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.519 Nope, I was wrong. I'd be the first one to be happy to 224 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:11.720 I don't care. I'm on it now because it needs to be more It 225 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:15.440 needs to be researched further and more deeply for a better understanding of what's going 226 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:21.279 on. Martin, you know what do you think Forrest? Well, this 227 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:23.680 is one of my favorite topics. So I'm actually looking very forward to your 228 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:27.440 talk. I went to school to be a physics major just so I could 229 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:32.039 figure out how these things flew. Well, I never got my degree in 230 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:34.759 physics, and I haven't figured out how these things well. Actually I might 231 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.680 have figured out how they fly, but I haven't been able to build one 232 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.880 or do the math. So I love this topic and I can't wait to 233 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:47.559 hear you talk. Hey, check this out. Okay, Now, people 234 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:52.079 talk about them not feeling our gravity and being able to move as if they 235 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:57.240 have anti gravity. Right, what is anti gravity? Well? What is 236 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:02.640 gravity? Yeah? Okay, let's let's let's actually ask the question and we'll 237 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:07.240 get to that. Actually, that's very important, and that the answer to 238 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.799 that question is part of the fundamental nature of what's wrong with our physics because 239 00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:17.279 you know as well as me that we don't know exactly what it is. 240 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:21.599 We know that gravity forms waves like ripples in the water. We've seen the 241 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:26.440 ripples from colliding neutron stars and from uh, you know, colliding black holes 242 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.519 mergers. We've seen those ripples in space time out in the universe. Right, 243 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:34.359 We know that we've seen it. So we know that light acts like 244 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:38.440 a wave. We also know that light acts like a particle. We know 245 00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:44.480 that we can assign a wave function to how electrons operate, and we know 246 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:48.400 that we talk about them as particles as well. You see the theme here. 247 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.160 All of our fundamental particles, and by by and large and all of 248 00:19:52.160 --> 00:20:00.680 our fundamental physics sees duality wave and particle nature. Gravity's the odd ball. 249 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:07.279 We have Einstein's that we never see gravitational waves, and we have Einstein was 250 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:11.440 wrong, not wrong. He wasn't right about everything. Come on, he 251 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:17.160 wasn't right about everything. But think about that. Okay, so we see 252 00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:22.640 gravitational waves now, So wouldn't it make sense that the gravitational particle is something 253 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:27.200 that we would find as well, called the graviton. We have photons, 254 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:32.160 we have a wave of light. We have a photon of light, right, 255 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:36.920 we have a wave equation for electrons, we have a particle system that 256 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:41.440 we can describe an electron with. So it makes sense that for gravity we 257 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:47.039 would expect to find the particle side of gravity, the gravitons that are holding 258 00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:49.400 you to your chair right now. For us, for instance, Martin, 259 00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:55.440 probably a little more so depending on his latitude. I don't know. I'm 260 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.079 a pretty chubby guy. So I'm talking about latitude. Makes a little difference 261 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:03.440 in altitude, Yeah, laud attitude, yeah, yeah, yeah, latitude 262 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:07.640 and attitude, yeah, lattitude. Hey, that's good. So but when 263 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:11.039 we talk about the gravitons that are holding us to our chairs right now, 264 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:17.480 if we think about gravit gravitons as gravity particles, then the ones we're talking 265 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:22.440 about with the calusive client theory, they're tended to sixteenth times stronger than the 266 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:26.559 ones holding us to our chair. So wait a minute, I wouldn't that 267 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:30.480 destroy everything if they showed up on our atmosphere? Yes and no, because 268 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:36.039 when they generate these particles, what they do, this is part of what 269 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:41.640 Bob talks about Schroeder, is they generate micro black holes we know micro black 270 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:48.799 holes can exist, and micro black holes they suck but on bo right. 271 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:55.279 But they're also they're also very short lived. They only last for a short 272 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.640 period of time, just a few nanoseconds, and then they pop out of 273 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:03.440 exist. So what good are they? Well, if you keep a general 274 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:11.000 population of them around your ship, then you did, then you will see 275 00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:15.359 that you'll have a constant supply of these particles. The more you put out 276 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.279 there, the more particles there are, the farther into this fifth dimension you 277 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:22.119 can go. Okay, the lead less you put in there, then the 278 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:26.559 less you go. If you if you turn it off and you stop going 279 00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:30.759 out into the heather, you go the fifth dimension. Okay, Then he 280 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:32.960 did it to me last time I talked about it. I did, yes. 281 00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:37.200 So if you can go back and forth from this fifth dimension like this, 282 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:42.559 then what you will find is that to anyone watching you do this with 283 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:47.880 their eyes here in our four dimensions, your ship would look like it's shimmering, 284 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:51.640 as has been observed. Your ship might look like it's changing color, 285 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:56.079 as has been observed. Your ship might look like it's zipping really fast through 286 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:02.400 the sky as has been observed. It might be round because it's a particle 287 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:07.720 accelerator, as has been observed. So now I'm an astronomer and I can 288 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:11.599 talk about color changes as atmospheric scintillation. It's a process, it's something we 289 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.440 know. I could talk about seeing something here in the sky, then suddenly 290 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.279 it looks like it's there. That's the autokinetic effect, because your eye can't 291 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:23.680 focus on any spotany in the sky very well, right, exactly, it's 292 00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:27.839 an evolutionary issue we have. Okay, it wasn't important to be able to 293 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:33.160 do that, so we never really hone that technique, and I can explain 294 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:37.319 a lot of the other issues, like whether thing seems to pop out of 295 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:41.920 sight and then come back into view, something on the edge of visibility. 296 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:45.400 Sure, there's a lot of physical things that we see that we can describe 297 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:52.160 in ordinary physics terms with ordinary explanations, but it doesn't mean it doesn't mean 298 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:57.200 that that's the only explanation, and it doesn't mean that we can't share different 299 00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:03.960 effects with different phenomena. They do overlap, So it's possible. It's possible 300 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:11.519 that everything we're seeing with these UFOs is something that is the result of these 301 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:22.720 calusive line gravitons being in use. Mark, we're talking about magneto electric radiation, 302 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:27.400 not electromagnetic radiation, dark matter, dark energy. No, you know, 303 00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:30.000 actually, for us, we're talking about believe it or not, the 304 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:36.799 only thing we're talking about is gravity. UFOs use massive gravitational fields in order 305 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:40.559 to move in this theory. Let me throw this one out there and I'll 306 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:44.720 probably start I'll start a fight or send us down a rabbit. Good. 307 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:51.440 I think that I think that gravity might be a pushing force, not an 308 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:55.839 attracting force. That we're not being pulled down to the planet, but we're 309 00:24:55.880 --> 00:25:00.920 being pushed down to the planet by ane that evenly permeates the universe and all 310 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:07.640 directions coming out of black holes. Take your pick. And so whenever I 311 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:11.640 think about it from a propulsion standpoint, from a simple propulsion system to get 312 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:15.920 around the planet, like you say, you don't need a propulsion system. 313 00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:22.039 All you need to do is neutralize or deflect that gravitational push a little bit, 314 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:29.559 and now you have made yourself lighter. Actually I left out a very 315 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.839 very important piece too for us. And maybe this will align with what you're 316 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:34.519 saying. Maybe it won't. Well, it's time for a commercial break. 317 00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:40.519 Just better not He's kidding. He doesn't mean it, folks, No, 318 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:45.319 But the most important thing is that the other thing that these micro black holes 319 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.720 do is the most important thing that they do. And I can't believe I 320 00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:51.000 didn't mention it. I think it was on such a roll that I forgot 321 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:55.200 to mention it. So I apologize. But the micro black holes do one 322 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:59.119 another very important thing. They might pull in a little bit of the light, 323 00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:03.400 okay, and thus make your objects change color. They might, they 324 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.240 might make them shimmer and vanish because they're pulling in some of the light that 325 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:14.920 these things are emitting. But they also are pulling in and eating, so 326 00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:18.240 to speak, the earth gravitons. So, in other words, Earth gravity 327 00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:23.440 cannot reach these ships. So that's why when people talk about them, they 328 00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:30.240 seem to sometimes act like falling leaves and just through weird motions that seem very 329 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.079 fluid. They seem very very wrong, right, They just seem like it 330 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.359 looks like a floating leave. Who could handle that? Well, The occupants 331 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.359 don't care. They're shifting. They don't care, they're shifting in and out. 332 00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:45.000 You know, to them, there is no upper down. They don't 333 00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:52.079 have any upper down until they mitigate the production of those particles so that they 334 00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:53.920 can set down on the planet. And by the way, when they do 335 00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:57.519 that, that's when they're vulnerable. I was gonna say, how could they 336 00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:03.319 crash? I guess connect with the planet. But thank you for all that, 337 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:06.759 Mark, and I understand you know what I mean. Sorry, I 338 00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:11.799 wanted to talk to you Mark at some point because I think that the web 339 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:15.079 is possibly changing some science just by some of the things that they're discovering. 340 00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:19.960 But that will talk at another time. But I think it's really interesting and 341 00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:26.240 maybe the cosmological constant was actually accurate. Who knows. I mean, these 342 00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:29.759 all these things that they're trying to figure out, But I want to know 343 00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:34.119 who forest is in a forest if you would. It sounds like you've had 344 00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:37.400 an interest in the UFO topic for a long time. Did you have a 345 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.359 personal sighting or anything, or just an interest. No, I did. 346 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:48.160 When I was ten years old, I saw a disc shaped craft a land 347 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:51.519 in a farm field about one hundred and twenty feet away from me. It 348 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:56.079 was about thirty five feet in diameter and kind of looked like the Pizza Hunt 349 00:27:56.119 --> 00:27:59.480 logo, and I had a short stout sort of antenna looking thing in the 350 00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:06.039 center. Some windows around the canopy part of it, and while I watched 351 00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:08.079 it, landing gear came out and it sat down on the ground, and 352 00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:12.599 my best friend and his parents saw it. Also. We were driving back 353 00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:18.440 from Harden, Illinois, near just north of Pierre Marquette State Park. If 354 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:21.480 you want to look on a map and figure out where this happened. And 355 00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:25.000 as it turns out, there's tons of OFFO activity in that area historically. 356 00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:27.880 And so I saw this thing land and even at ten years old, I 357 00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:33.039 was like, that ain't from around here, you know, And I got 358 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:37.880 interested and got involved. When I was thirteen, I was collecting books. 359 00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:42.039 I gave my first speech on propulsion theory and detection methods when I was eighteen 360 00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:45.680 years old here in Saint Louis. Oh, well, before you, before 361 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:51.440 you move on from that, can you describe the rest of that particular encounter. 362 00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:53.519 I mean, did you see the thing take off or anything like that. 363 00:28:55.599 --> 00:29:03.960 No, it was we were driving back from like a my friend's uncle 364 00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:06.319 had a house near the river, and we were doing, you know, 365 00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:08.920 a barbecue all day and we were driving back at night, and we were 366 00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:14.920 seeing this glow moving around like behind the hills, behind the trees. We 367 00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.680 couldn't see what was causing the glow, but it was weird enough that at 368 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:22.920 some point, and this was in the in the late sixties, so there 369 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:26.079 was a lot going on, and we even joked I was probably one of 370 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.759 those UFOs they're talking about on TV. And my friend's dad was ex military, 371 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:34.519 and it was odd enough that at some point he pulled over next to 372 00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.279 a field where we could see the glow that wasn't moving, so we could 373 00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:42.119 get out and see what it was. And so I was the first one 374 00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:47.160 to start getting out of the car, saw it hovering about fifteen feet off 375 00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:51.400 the ground, and then the landing gear came out and it sat down on 376 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:55.160 the ground. They started getting out of the car and saw it. When 377 00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:59.519 my friend's dad saw this thing, it scared him more than I've ever seen 378 00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:03.359 a grown person scared that he screamed for us to get back in the car. 379 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:11.920 And that's when the Nash Rambler exceeded its design capabilities. Yeah, he 380 00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:15.599 floored it and we were literally just screeching on these little country roads in the 381 00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:19.839 middle of the night to get away from it. And he would never allow 382 00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:23.599 either of the three of us to ever talk about it again. If we 383 00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:27.400 brought it up, he would get violently angry at us. Wow, And 384 00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:33.640 so that was the only that was the only thing that happened that night, 385 00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:42.440 Yeah, it was. It turns out years later I found out that other 386 00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:49.240 things had happened earlier in the day that even as a lifelong UFO researcher, 387 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:56.960 abduction researcher, you name it, I did not remember these things that had 388 00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:03.599 happened earlier in the day until I allowed myself to be hypnotized. I was 389 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:07.640 actually trying to recover to see if there were any more memories about that night 390 00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:10.799 that you're asking about, because that's one of those you go, well, 391 00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:14.039 if you saw at land, something happened. Well, it turns out it 392 00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:18.160 didn't, but something happened earlier in the day that I had not remembered for 393 00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:25.839 thirty something years, and there were other objects that we saw earlier in the 394 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:30.039 day. So it really deepens the mystery quite a bit. I can tell 395 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:37.480 you. Wow, Wow, that's that's pretty interesting. And so it sounds 396 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.519 like right away you had an interest in the topic. If you if you 397 00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.559 did a talk when you were eighteen years old, that's pretty amazing. Yeah, 398 00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:48.519 it was at the UFO study group of Greater Saint Louis, which at 399 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:56.039 the time was probably the largest monthly UFO group in the country. And the 400 00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:00.960 people that would show up at that at that meeting, just you know, 401 00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:07.079 on a whim, would be like doctor Heinek, Walt Andres the Lorenzans. 402 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:12.759 Uh. You know Ted Phillips was here in Missouri. He would show up 403 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:15.119 on a monthly basis. Any one of those guys could just walk in and 404 00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:21.039 sit down in the audience. Wow. Yeah, that's pretty amazing icons golden 405 00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:23.519 age of your apology. Yeah. I have to just ask you to this 406 00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:29.960 question because I love this show. Has anyone when if you watch the very 407 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:38.680 familiar with this show, I love It's a riot. Uh, you end 408 00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:46.440 up just loving this dysfunctional childlike alien that really doesn't mean to do harm, 409 00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:50.000 but he doesn't care if he does harm any If you don't do what I 410 00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:55.519 want, I'll eat your children. That's what we do on our planet planet. 411 00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:00.640 We leave them out on the ice to die. Yeah. Wow, 412 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:07.519 you are watching it. Yeah, Yeah, it's great, it's great. 413 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:12.160 So, yeah, getting back to you for us, So you've had this 414 00:33:12.279 --> 00:33:15.400 interest for a long time. What other types of involvement have you had in 415 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:21.599 like involved in you mof On and things like that. Yeah, whenever I 416 00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:24.920 was a teenager, I started doing investigative work, and mostly it was carrying 417 00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:30.000 stuff for these really cool old guys of ethology, you know. And uh, 418 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.799 like I said, I went away to college to be a physics major 419 00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:37.880 literally to try and figure out how they flew. Really well, you were 420 00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:39.839 serious about that, Oh yeah, I wasn't kidding about that. I went 421 00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:45.039 to it in Chicago on a Navy scholarship to be a physicist. They wanted 422 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:49.119 me to do reactors for the Navy, and I went, no, no, 423 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:54.039 want that. But and then so then eventually I got involved with mof 424 00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:59.680 ON as a field investigator and then the assistant state director, and then when 425 00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:06.000 Tom Stolts died, I became state director of Illinois Moufon for eleven years and 426 00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:09.119 then passed it on to Mark one of our good friends, Dave Marler. 427 00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:16.079 So I was the state director for Moufon from ninety one to two thousand and 428 00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:22.280 two or three something like that. And I actually was on the staff of 429 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:29.000 Movefon as the computer specialist, and I designed the first database that all of 430 00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:35.280 the paper records from Walt Anders's garage were entered into a computer for the very 431 00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:38.079 first time in a database that I designed. Wow, so that was a 432 00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:44.000 long time. Yeah, Walt used to run moufon by file folders out in 433 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:46.920 his garage. It was hilarious, it was crazy. Yeah I Knewhi when 434 00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:52.920 he had dark hair. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he was an awesome 435 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:58.480 guy. But yeah, he was not good at filing. So yeah, 436 00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:00.960 we got it all in the computer. And now you can search all that 437 00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:05.800 data. I guess thanks to me. If I'm going to brag about something, 438 00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:08.199 I massa you may, you may. You deserve it. Except at 439 00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:12.880 the moment, I mean, there's been a denial of service attack on moufon, 440 00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:16.840 and our our case management system is down and the FBI is involved actually 441 00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:21.119 trying to find the call. It seems like a hack of some kind. 442 00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.119 Yeah, it's been a it's been a wicked hack. So that's just, 443 00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:28.960 you know, the crap we deal with some mark. There's a question for 444 00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:32.519 you, when will you be following up with the Hudson Valley saga? Yeah? 445 00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:37.920 I answered why, but in the chat that it's okay, there's no 446 00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:44.159 one yet that wants to actually do that because that costs money to actually put 447 00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:45.840 that research I want to do it. I've been wanting to do it. 448 00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:50.360 Is the day one. I just finished working with that producer that was on 449 00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:57.199 that show on another program, and you know, so hopefully, you know, 450 00:35:57.320 --> 00:35:59.840 he'll get the bug to do it again, because I think it doesn't 451 00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:01.039 have to be a show. I mean, I don't care, just research. 452 00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:05.360 You know, we need someone on to write the cost of that, 453 00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:07.599 you know, I know we'd have to get Ben out here again and stuff, 454 00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:12.119 you know, and get those Oak Island guys. I think they're about 455 00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:14.639 to find that treasure. They're going to be looking for something to do with. 456 00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:16.519 That show needs something to do. Yeah, well, they're always about 457 00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:20.719 to find the treasure. They're always about to finding I was talking about that 458 00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:23.039 the other day. They found a button. We'd make so much fun of 459 00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:27.800 them, but I can't stop watching that stupid show. Well then it's a 460 00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:31.159 success, Yeah, sure it is, right, Yeah, I don't know 461 00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:36.079 how many seasons it's been. But at least nobody's dying yet, right, 462 00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:38.119 nobody's dying. Well, right, that's it. One of them needs to 463 00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:42.320 take a fall so they can find the treasure. Right. And it had 464 00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:45.079 always killed me when Travis. I love Travis, but he's on that show. 465 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:47.480 He went on that show and he's talking about stuff, and I was 466 00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:51.639 like, Travis, why don't you call up one of your buddies and get 467 00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:55.639 some gravity anomaly maps so that we can see underneath the ground with that good 468 00:36:55.679 --> 00:37:00.239 government technology and point to right where the stuff is. I don't know, 469 00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:07.119 or just do a gravitational nominally study like the oil companies do exactly. You 470 00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:12.320 know, there was in reality, there was very little actually buried treasure. 471 00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.400 You know, those guys did all like there was so much more they were 472 00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:20.440 involved, and for them to take the time to make such an elaborate trap 473 00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:23.239 and all that, I think it's, well, something happened there, but 474 00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:27.719 I don't know what it was. Maybe going down a rabbit hole here, 475 00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:30.719 aren't we Yeah, we've got to stare away a small one. If they 476 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:36.480 dug up a UFO, that would be cool. But yeah it was the 477 00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.599 UFOs did it? Yes? Yeah? So, uh, this has been 478 00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:43.679 This has been a lot of fun and uh for us. I'm gonna have 479 00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:46.119 to have you back on the show for a regular episode. It would be 480 00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:51.199 great to talk to you and to do that. I got I got some 481 00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:53.280 great stories I can tell you that well, let's hear one of them right 482 00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:57.719 now. I'm going to put you right on the spot. Okay, all 483 00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:00.039 right, best again. I'll give you the bullet points. And this is 484 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:04.679 a week long discussion. You bring the beer. I'll tell you the whole 485 00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:09.679 story, but i'll give you the bullet points. Okay. Most interesting case 486 00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:14.880 I ever investigated was here in Missouri. We called it the Oscar case. 487 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:19.920 This was a guy that Stan Friedman actually turned us on to this guy. 488 00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:23.079 He heard about him when he was speaking at a conference in Florida. So 489 00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:27.559 he passed the information to Bruce Woodhaman, who used to be the state director 490 00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:31.400 for Missouri Muffon. Bruce called a couple of us up. We went up 491 00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:36.159 and we found this guy with nothing more than a name in the town that 492 00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:40.880 he lived in, and he claimed to have been involved in a He was 493 00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:45.519 on a Delta squad back in the late fifties, was involved in a crash 494 00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:52.280 retrieval operation where they recovered an intact UFO that had minor damage on the inside, 495 00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:57.519 two dead aliens one live alien that was trapped on board the ship. 496 00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:02.480 He was his crew group were called in to do security around it. They 497 00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:07.519 were stationed at the contrary Peck Submarine based in San Diego. When they got 498 00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:10.119 the call, he said, they went underground and got in the tubes, 499 00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:16.039 what they called shooting the tubes. They got in the tubes and he snuck 500 00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:20.599 a watch on. They always make you take metal off when you ride the 501 00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:22.440 tubes, but he snuck a watch on because he wanted to see how long 502 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:25.159 it was going to be to where they were going. It was a little 503 00:39:25.159 --> 00:39:30.639 bit less than twenty minutes from San Diego and they got out or near min 504 00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:32.920 base in North Dakota. If you do the math, that's two thousand miles 505 00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:37.360 an hour underground in a tunnel. Okay, back in the late fifties. 506 00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:44.920 His crew formed security around the craft. Some guy named Doctor Bear used some 507 00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:50.280 sonic equipment just like in the movie the Bamboo Saucer, and the side of 508 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:52.960 the craft looked liquid and it opened up like an iris. He went into 509 00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:58.039 the craft. There was a live alien pinned against one of the walls. 510 00:39:58.039 --> 00:40:04.559 Because the inside buckled when it ashed and pinned his leg. He telepathically communicated 511 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:09.639 with the or the alien telepathically communicated with him, and they came in freed 512 00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:15.639 the alien, and because he could so easily communicate with him. He was 513 00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:22.000 he was dubbed as the liaison, so he communicated between the scientists in the 514 00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:27.079 military and the alien. They did. They tried to ease the alien's pain 515 00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:31.039 with opioid stuff, which had no effect on its physiology, but they went 516 00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:38.199 ahead and did experimental surgery on it. Anyway. At one point he took 517 00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:42.199 the side of the alien and pulled his service revolver and said, you're not 518 00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:46.079 going to hurt this guy anymore. They immediately removed him from the project and 519 00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:52.199 debriefed him in in a military hospital in out East I want to say maybe 520 00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:57.960 Virginia, uh, for like three months, and then honorably discharged him, 521 00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:01.960 and he had in touch with the aliens or they've been in touch with him 522 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:08.519 ever since. So we went up and we did a seven year long investigation 523 00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:12.840 where we went up and interviewed this guy about three or four times a year. 524 00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:16.880 And UH, every single time we went up to talk to this guy, 525 00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:24.400 something weird happened. I saw UFOs, we heard strange things. Just 526 00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:29.440 I again, I could go on for about four hours and just tell you 527 00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:32.840 the weird stuff that happened while we were up there investigating this guy. And 528 00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:39.079 remember Martin. I'm going to be with him, so I'll get to this 529 00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:44.880 scoop. Yeah, I'll get to the schoolh I'll tell you the story. 530 00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:46.719 Have you on the show, I'll tell you the whole story. Yeah, 531 00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:51.679 that's so fast. You never heard, never heard any part of this one. 532 00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:59.880 So that's fantastic. It's it's suddenly completely relevant again because it dovetails into 533 00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:04.400 all of this whistleblower stuff. Everything this guy said. We were either able 534 00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:08.320 to verify his crew and military career, the guy he reported to all this 535 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.280 kind of stuff. And then I can tell you through personal experience, I 536 00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:16.639 don't think the guy was lying because weird stuff happened to us every time we 537 00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:24.719 went up there. And so yeah, it's a fascinating story. Excellent, 538 00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:28.840 that's one of them. That's one story. Wow. Well, I'm looking 539 00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:31.840 forward to meeting you, Forrest, and it's been a real pleasure of having 540 00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:37.199 you both on and Mark, I'm I can't wait to hear that the propulsion 541 00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:44.519 again. And actually I have been in touch with the Robert Schroter Bob Schroter, 542 00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:49.119 and he is going to be back. He wants to do the show 543 00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.639 in person, which makes it kind of difficult because I have to be you 544 00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:54.639 know, he wants to meet up in Massachusetts, so it's a little tricky 545 00:42:54.679 --> 00:43:01.519 for me. But other than that will not mean anymore. No, No, 546 00:43:01.639 --> 00:43:07.039 I'm now between New Hampshire and South Carolina, so back and forth. 547 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:10.039 But we'll see you. Did I hear you correctly? You're going to be 548 00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:15.719 at the conference. I will be there, coming in UH, going on 549 00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:22.119 a cruise that day the week ahead and flying from Florida to UH to the 550 00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:28.360 Ozark. Yeah, excellent. Keep your camera going when you're on that cruise. 551 00:43:28.360 --> 00:43:30.480 You might have some pictures to show us. Yeah I did, the 552 00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:34.320 first time I went on one of those cruises, I thought for sure I 553 00:43:34.360 --> 00:43:37.599 saw UFO. Ended up being a plane pulling a banner just very far away, 554 00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:42.679 and boy did it look great too, And if it hadn't turned, 555 00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:45.639 I would have thought it was. But thank you both so much, and 556 00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:49.639 really looking forward to seeing you coming right up in a few weeks. And 557 00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:54.039 all right, thanks so much and take care, okay, thank you later. Mark