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wherever, exactly where I've been going with Sir Patrick the newer normally discovered ustently
a phonomicy a your black Hole. Welcome to Twin Souls. Twin Souls as
part of the Paranormal UK Radio Network, and our special guest today is Mark
Henderson. Mark Anderson is very much involved in the paranormal along with computer science.
Welcome Mark, Thank you, Donnie, thank you for having me.
Okay, i'd like to kick off and first of all ask you what exactly
got you into firsty the paranormal. Okay, that's it's quite a long question,
so I'll trying to be as brief summarized as quickly as possible. If
you can see the painting behind me, this is a painting from Dundee,
and that's my that's my home time. And I lived in a quite a
nice house in Dundee, and the place was for dramatic effect, like a
mini boring version of Skinwalker Runs without the couse. And right before we continue,
the painting behind market is of a beautiful wintry scenic depiction of where he
once sniffed. There was a lot happening there. And I'll speak about my
experiences, although there were there have been other experiences from other people and the
house I lived in, there was a number of things happened throughout the years,
like, for example, the more common things within the paranormal would be
a thing like hammering, Like even though there's nobody in the house, there
would be the strange hammering. From time to time, there'd be noises,
and there were unusual sites, not often, but from time to time they
would maybe see something that didn't look quite right. That was part and parcel
of everyday life. And there was things like feelings and sensations that I just
thought, I'm being silly, I'm just making it up. For example,
or it's in my head only a child at the time. My first like
real experience of the paranormal, apart from the hammering, started a bit later,
so apologies, I'm going to have to digress a bit. The first
real part experiences probably the one that everybody's had, and that's when you dream
about something and then a few days later it came true. And that I
remember my first time that happened. I was six years old. And then
all the more unusual feelings of in the house and then the hammerings maybe started
about a living twelve thirteen. They continue, Yes, they really started about
living twelve. Yes, and for my first ever real like out their paranormal
experience probably happened in France. And I will put up to this. This
is contentious and is debatable, and I will put my hands up and benbody
says Luke that you're being silly. I'm totally accepted. But I believe I
ginerally saw an angel and it was a it's a silly it's it's not anything
eventful or nothing like came down say my life. It was I lost a
wallet and I remember losing it a theme park and I we got a bus
and we went to a city. It was really a really busy city in
France, and it was quick close to the Calis and it was really really
busy. My teacher said, please be careful. They lots of pickpockets.
And I had lost my wallet about an hour or so before in another place,
and I just had this feeling go out and I'll be okay. And
this old lady came up to me spoke in English, handing me the wallet
with all the money in it, and I was like, well and said
thank you very much, and I turned around and I couldn't see her anymore
now. It wasn't like she vanished in my eyes. And if you're being
a bit more rational, from we could say doing we won. The kids
took the wallet and threw it away, and then the lady picked it up.
But the unusual thing, it was just such a busy day and for
her to know that it was my wallet and to speak to me and well
maybe she could see my wallet to see her then the English and spoke to
me in English. But just there's so many people that the chances were really
really small. So I have a lot of comfort from that story, and
I feel like there's a lot of good in the world because of that.
And then what happened was and the probably the things they speak most about,
the same year or maybe a few months later, I was walking my dog
and just outside of my house across the road, a soft flash like maybe
see in the sky, like you see from an old camera, another one.
I thought, that's unusual, and then this white like saucer like energy
just seemed to hover over my neighbor's house. It seemed to bounce up and
down and back to front, and it wasn't frightening at all, but it
was actually it was just like, oh, that's that's there. So I
had a friend in the house at the time, very close friends were like
family, so we always used to call each other cousins, and I said,
come out, come out and see this, and we just watched it
for I really don't know how long I was there for, Ronnie, but
it was just amazing to see and to speed up the story that was it.
After that, there was there was lots more happening with their in the
house, but also and above that, there were many other uforce shake things.
So that's what got me into the paranormal. Oh I see this is
fascinating because when you recount the story of the noises you heard and these strange
happenings in your hometown, I will relate a story of mine. When we
were toddlers, our mother and us lived on the grounds of big More House,
in the cottage that was off road, way off road. No one
was there. It was just us and our mother, and at night she
would tuck us up and put the fire on. It was a huge,
old cottage, very cold, so they looked the fires at night, and
she could hear running up and down, really hear the landing, and she
was annoyed, and she went upstairs to give us a good telling off,
and we all wrapped up our beds, fast asleep, and so we hear,
like your case of the noises. There was no one there, it
was, and she swore blind there were children running up and down all the
time, very very loud. So you know, I can quite connect with
what you're stating as being younger and a lot of children do seem to experience
these kinds of things. Also, the angel, when you said it wasn't
as dramatic as a nation, I know what you mean, because the definition
of an angel is a wholly kind of trinity with glittering wings. But this
came in the former year old lady. That is incredible. She came to
see you to hand back your wallet in a busy day, during a busy
time, and that is amazing. Now people will, of course put it
down to coincidence. I don't believe in coincidences. I think that was an
incredible kind of quite touching encounter you have, So I do believe that probably
was an angel. I have a number of always some other people. I
went where here because the sial show about people who have had these mysterious divisuals
to interact with them. And the name I know what you made by bandage
that's just gone, It disappeared, you know, So that is what drew
you into the parallel. Of course I can understand why you were so invested
with this when you get older. It's always when you get oldsen it always
later on when you want to know very much so, And going back to
the thing of the angel as well, there was and I can't remember the
lady's name, but there was a bit called seeing Angels, and it was
a lady who did a PhD thesis on angels and their encounters, and it
was actually very rare for angels to be reported as the sort of like the
white winged with the halos. It's actually it was actually more predominantly they would
come in the form of an older person. So again I can understand that
it's debatable and there's gonna be a bit of belief on my part, but
certainly, even from a mathematical point of view, the fact that she would
be able to give me that wallet, even if it had just been drown
a rebay, one of the kids in front of there, the me,
thousands of other people waiting about, it's still very small. Yes, that's
right. This is this is the thing about them, you see. I
mean I have never personally had an encounter like that myself with an angel,
law any kind of a department pertaining to godliness or the haunted, or you
know, podcast I've never seen any of them. Philip has at once,
but too, you've seen an angel. He believes it was an angel.
It was a man who, to all extended purposes, looked like he was
like a bronzed guard. He was huge, muscular, massive, and he
helped him, He gave him some advice, and then he disappeared, like
you said, just he turned around and had gone. There was no way
for him to go. He was dressed actually a motorcycled gear and he was
like massive, and Philip just knew he wasn't right. He looked more like
one of those Nordics people describe the alien lordics. Blonde haired, blue eyed
beauty is huge. You know, so that's fascinating about the old lady.
Yes, yeah, yeah, so that I feel very privileged to have had
that sating Ronnie. Not all the satans and experience of how'd have been Some
of them have been frightening, for example from the UFO encounters had been frightening,
but that one has always given me comfort. To me many years for
me to think there's something more to that than just that old lady giving me
a wallet. It we rebbe eighteen or fifteen years later, I thought that's
that was unusual, that shouldn't have happened. Yes, yes, yes,
I will interject there and just state that I had one message from I would
call it the divine. Although we can't prove it, we can't touch it,
we can't measure it, but this was a sign, like your old
lady. I was depressed. This happened when I was in my I believe
it was early twenties. I was way depressed, and I was actually weeping
with Philip out the back. We had hit on some very bad times,
very low times. And I'm going to state this quite clearly. I knew
it was what we would call God. Now there are people who are against
that, atheists. I appreciate that you know this is what I saw.
But what happened was the sky was quite clear, there was some cloud covered
and when I looked up, I swear to you, I swear to you,
the clouds had formed the perfect face of a lion. His eyes,
his eyes. Philip has published as he wrote about this some years ago.
His eyes were open and I could see the stars peeking through his eyes.
It took me a moment to realize it was the perfect face of a lion.
Is as if God had used the skies as canvas and it painted or
whipped up this incredible wild cat. It was a lion. And I knew
immediately when I looked up that that was vine intervention, some kind of divine
intervention, and it held a message. Well, lions depict majesty, strength,
patience, courage as many definitions for them. I got it. So
when you say about the lady handing you the one, when you say there's
perhaps more to it behind that, I understand. And it's the only time
that happened, the only time I saw that, and it was remark I
had an experience. It's not as remarkable as this, and I'm surprised.
I played to Google it just a month ago or so, and it was
it was actually I was a member of the church. I don't attend church
any longer, but the Hope was doing a mass in Toronto in two thousand
and two. Is part of the world, youty, And again this is
this is not nowhere near Ronnie your thing the medical shade. I'm probably going
to have this day without a large piece of salt, this one. But
it was it was just the worst day there was. They had so many
people staying in this field and it was just bucketing down with rain, and
as soon as the Pope essentially came to the altar that had been made,
it was almost like somebody had got do you like maybe on those window cleaners,
and they've got that sort of like a rubber thing that they just and
they just liked someone did that. The sky just cleaned it up. It
was, it was, it just seemed to be in minutes. Now again,
it's nowhere near as miraculous as that. But maybe on this a less
more, a less exciting version than than you're win though. Yeah, yes
that did actually happen, as you're saying about what you witnessed with the Pope,
Yes that happened, and it was remarkable. This was perfore mobile phones.
This was just perform I would imagine the mobile phones. We had nothing
to prove it. Of course, there was no way we can prove it.
Even if we had photographed it. Now they would state that what you've
used photoshop, it's a trick. We're aware of all that, and I'm
not even bothered what people think anyway. The greatest treasure I have is like
yourself with the lady is in here. It is something I knew there was
more to it. I'm not saying it was God. I would imagine it
would be something to do with some kind of divinity, some kind of spiritual
intervention. I don't know because we can't prove it, but it was supernatural,
and it was very constructive, very constructive, and I personally think it
was godly. Yes I do. I do. I don't care what people
think. I think it was godly. I toldly can imagine that suddenly that
happened. And what I feel is it's not really the same itself. It's
actually the sense of Pope gives you is that there's some sort of really powerful
good entity there and that you can almost aligned to it as well. And
I think I don't know about yourself, but certainly for me, it's almost
like a little where flash issue. It's there, it's it's it's tremendously comforting.
Yes, yes, Now the idea of this has pushed you even further,
isn't it with this subject because you're a gentleman who wishes to know more,
You want to know the truth, and you're trying to find ways of
actually creating some kind of pattern signatures to this phenomena of the UFOs, especially
UFOs a UFO interaction with people. Because you suggested be before about what you
proposed and I thought it was fascinating and wonderful. Can you relate this to
our listeners as you should move along to tell us what got you into the
computer side to it as well? Well? Yeah, so computing. I
actually work in computing and my day job is I manage a small team that
provide business intelligence solutions. And business intelligence can be a number of things,
and that can include things like artificial intelligence. But mainly what it is is
it's getting data and be able to report it in a way that's presentable to
to to somebody who needs it. Basically, it's becoming an ever more useful
skill. Basically, but going back to the question how do I get in
computing, I'm at school. I wasn't the best I was. I was
a bit a school wasn't for me. And what actually I I didn't really
I want to want to be able to be a postment and I was a
start as a postman and at sixteen, and it was my mother who have
to thank for this. And my mom really believes in education, and she
said, look, you there's nothing at all being a postman. But you're
not happy you you need to do something else. And althought I was really
reluctant to the thought of going to college because it isn't for me. I
hate learning. And I saw they took me to around a college in Dundee
and they had something about computer and had a PowerPoint presentation and even it was
ninety six, and I thought that looks really cool. I would love to
get into that. So I enrolled a basic level and then I did an
HNC HND, and then I ended up bything out a b OWNERS and then
a master's in applied computing. So well done, yes, well done,
thank you. And then I started working as a programmer. So I know
you've done a bit programming, as I see you're you're really into the retro,
the sixty four basic, because it's all purposive body construction goes. Yes,
I loved it. I'm master that and not machine code. I couldn't
grasp that. I understand binary machine code is basically binary bytes, you know,
instruction code for it that bypasses the interpreter, but not the newer versions.
Yes, the retro, I'm intia. Yeah. So I was a
programmer and then I moved into databases. And database isn't really the most interesting
aspect, but what's really useful about it is being able to get the data
and report on it. So for the past I've always done forms of business
intelligence. And when COVID hit, I worked for a company that I was
subcontracted to a bank, and everybody was panicking. They didn't know where their
staff was. And I had the data to find out where the staff was,
who was logged in, what was happening. And I became everybody in
the bank's best friend because I knew I knew what was happening, and I
was able to help them plan and do whatever they need to do with the
staff. Yes, and after doing that, and the CEO of the bank
we see my reports, I was able to take the job I'm doing now
when I'm managing at this business intelligence team, what I've been looking at is
artificial intelligence and looking at weeds at home, we can actually apply a to
the alien phenomena. So that's what that's what I'm doing. Yes, this
is fascinating. I like that. And when I was younger, I made
the mistake of actually assuming today's standards the acronym of artificial intelligence does mean from
a business standpoint. When we were younger, you must understand that artificial intelligence
meant just that it was intelligence, because I think we were also indoctrinated with
science fiction because in science fiction, issue know the computers could think for themselves.
We had the film called rollerball, and they had a machine in there
called Zero, and he was basically the fountain of knowledge. As kids,
of course, you look upon this thing and you think, oh my goodness,
this is phenomenal. It's that he's rather like your I had to whispered
Alexa, you have to whisper that. It's rather like that he was like
that. So, yes, the AI angle is very much welcome, especially
with what you suggested about the cataloging or for it to process or find patterns
in the UFO. And as you stated to me, didn't you stated,
Yeah, it's there, has a tremendous potential. And what's actually really interesting
about when it comes to EI. And so this phantom knowledge I would even
go back to see it probably even goes beyond computing, because even if you
look at like seeing nineteen twenty seven, there's a movie called Metropolis which was
supposed to be like a robot. I loved it, yes, yes,
and then even probably just the really thing of the ten Man or even the
scarecrow in Wizard of Ours. So for me, that sort of AI,
the way that people represent it, that sort of like non human intelligence even
probably goes back beyond even what EI is it's just like and we're a technical
logical golem for other other words, the use of AI what we know is
actually really fascinating. And EI has really started in the fifties, in the
mid fifties it really started. So it was years before it's forty years essentially
before the Internet, for example, people were looking at artificial intelligence. And
when we look at like movies like Metropolis and that came out in nineteen twenty
seven, and that was like the sort of robotic sort of like all encompassing
knowledgeable machine. Yes, even classics such as The Wizard of Ours I would
say have an element of this artificial intelligence, maybe with the tin man at
the Scarecrow. Yes, So I like the term. Again, it's just
a made up term, the technological golem, That's why I call it.
Yes, I like that, So I like that. It's quite apps.
Actually, the way the EI is is nowhere near that. Even the the
chat GDPs or all the technology that people talk about nowadays, it's it's nowhere
near that. That's sort of like a fountain of knowledge. The media sort
of give it this this this view that it's maybe going to awaken and become
conscious and take the world yes, that's right. I'm glad. But it
will eventually we will see that. I think I do believe it will become
so advanced we will reach that point. But at the moment, yes,
yes, yeah, it's it's a long way off though. Yes, the
way I would have to describe bi essentially, it's made it of two parts,
and two parts of this makeup what's called a model. So generally,
if you're programming before, you will see I had a program, or some
people would call it a script, but essentially you'd have a program and that
would do a specific task. But a model is slightly different. A model
is you don't necessarily have to program it specifically with all the specific rules.
It can kind of be able to figure out a lot of the rules itself.
And it's made out of two different things. It's made up an algorithm
like a platform very much. Yeah, yeah, And that's a over simplification
because there's many different type of algorithms, but essentially that's all. It is,
just algorithms that are being used for quite a while. Now, what
the magic is is the data. And now that we've got so much data,
we can actually put masters amount of training data and put it through an
algorithm. And what we do is by doing that we create a model.
So almost like if you get water and a tea bag, you make a
cup of tea, that's the data to water and an algorithm to tea bag.
And that's exactly what AI is at the moment. Yes, I think,
I think that's a wonderful idea. And what your initial idea was,
Mark, and I thought it was fascinating, is to use these algorithms,
all this artificial intelligence. Let's call it that, because they are becoming very
very smart now computers not talking about the actual hard where we joke about it's
saying it's as smart as a toaster. But what they can do is absolutely
incredible. There is no disputing that. There is no disputing they are amazing.
I always said we need technology, we must have it. Computers must
evolve in the right hands. I agree with you. Also, before we
carry on that this complete demonic future that they've been painting, I agree with
you about the AI. We haven't reached that level. I think it's scaremongering
more than anything. Or as I stated before, what they're using it for
is in their hope that if an error does occur in the future. You're
a computer expert, you would know this. They would have something to blame.
I mean, the hard text like this off the programmers, the people
who are the science of the computers. You would know that's false, but
they would just stay Oh, it was AI that made the error. But
AIS down to the programming of the individuals. So at the moment, while
they are based on the algorithms, very smart, very smart programming, it
is not the computer's fault. But yes, but this this idea you'll have
of this system being created using these algorithms or this AI, this artificial let's
give it the respective assesses. Artificial intelligence could be used to when you input
a kind of data about people's experiences or encounters or sightings on a major scale,
it can form perhaps possibly as you stated, this is this is your
work, some kind of pattern, some kind of signature that we can recognize.
Is that right? Yes, the thing there have to be a few
caveats, and we need to take it back a little bit, probably from
what I've been looking at in there since I've last spoken to you, just
to the audience or running and I had an occasional chat on escape just in
the past. And yes, What is the most important part of the SEAME
is if you're using artificial intelligence or using business intelligence, isn't the AI because
we've all got to remember that AI is simply a tool. So they're very
powerful tools, but sometimes, for example, they're not the tools that are
the best. Bit. It's like, for example, if you need to
paint your bedroom, you're not going to use a GCB motor to do It's
really powerful, but it's going to be rubbish at painting your bedroom. And
it's the same with the I. What I would say, the first thing
that we need to do is we need to come out with questions and try
to find out what are we trying to achieve by using AI or any other
tools. And I'll explain what I mean by other tools in ament, but
the key part and the part that all of us can do is try and
find out what questions do we want answered? And if I'm honest with you
at this at our stage or I don't think they're going to get much answers.
What I think we're going to do is sort of answer something and lead
that to more questions. But the fact that we're getting just another step up
in there, the ladder is that's the best pattern, Then our grandchildren and
their grandchildren they will get further and further, and eventually, over many years,
will saw this enigma, and AI and other forms of data analytics are
going to be a tool that we used to get it. It's never going
to be able to install the prompt for us, but it will be able
to help us on the journey. Yes, well, it's just closer towards
some answers. Yes, I like the idea. You'll use the word tool.
I like that because that's what it will be a tool to help us
to assist with this enigma, you know, And this is your idea.
I think it's wonderful the idea you have of this. It's very sad,
isn't it. And you've acknowledged yourself even now that this is going to take
time. And I agree with you completely because the UFO phenomena has been with
us for not just decades, hundreds of years, and we are none the
why, so we seem to go around and round in circles. I have
some ideas of my own. They're only theories, it is not set in
stone. That's all we have. But they will be published in a book
I'm working on Fredi Mantle next year. It's going to be published. I
am no closer to the truth and anyone else. I couldn't tell you what
they are. I have seen, like yourself, some strange things. They
are non terrestrial. We know that, no matter what the authorities or people
who seem to know it all tell you, they are not of this realm.
I don't particularly believe they might be from outer space. I'm not painting
them all the same brush, but I think majority something else has intervened.
There's something else with us. But certainly this idea you have of AI is
fascinating and I think it's wonderful. And I have to explain to our listeners
that Mark is rising up in this film because of his intelligence and because of
his perception of the phenomena his logic behind it. He just wants to know
the truth like us, and I think he should be commended for trying to
think of ways or fashion methods in eliminating the obvious and gaining results from using
this tool, the AI approach. Well, thank you. I really appreciate
that one, and I have really high respect for you and Philip, so
I'm really really kind for you to say that it means a lot. Can
I give you an example of why I feel that. Yeah, he's never
going to answer that for us. Yes, of course, I think this
is a really good one. And there's a really good book called in Plain
Sight by Ross Koltat and the think in the first chapter he talks about the
Nimits instinct. And I can't remember the name of the ship. I think
it was an Arizona. That might be wrong, but these this ship had
when the supports ships that supported the Nimits battlegroup, Yes, and it kept
on detecting radar contacts. And it turned out, over many days and even
weeks, not only were getting multiple radar contacts, but they were also getting
witness sightings. And then at one point they sent out to two fighter jets
too f eighteens. Now they ended up intercepting object that everybody now noticed,
tik tak. And that's it's a really famous story about everybody that everybody knows.
But what mister Coultart does in his book is say that before the pilots
left the Nimits, they had orders to meet at a specific set of coordinates,
and after they engaged the Nimic, the tik tak. They flew to
these coordinates only to find the tik tak object waiting there for them. Now,
where I think AI would be really useful is being able to detect maybe
hot spots for example, or be able to help us with our data analysis.
But only human being is going to understand the significance of a TikTok object
waiting at a place and the waason. What I'm saying about the questions is
how did that TikTok object know to be there? Because there was no radio
signals sent between the this battleship and eighteen. So it raises more questions.
First of all, it knows that it's there, and only human human being
and understand that that Pacific coordinates are going to be of importance to the But
over and above that and now raises questions did they have some sort of telepathy
or were they able to come back in time? Yes, because they predicted
the future. Bly it knew where they we're going to go. This as
if they had seen the future or as you said, mind reading. That's
fascinating. So that's that's why that's where I see it being is that once
we uncover something else or and we get really good quality data, we'll find
out more about about the capabilities of these of the phenomena. But also hopefully
and what you'd alluded to before, maybe to some degree, although not completely,
some of the intent of the phenomena. That's but I think we're not
just but data analytics and look at data can help us just move us along
in there that field, if it's at all anything like that would be useful
or would be a benefit to us. You know, what is what you've
suggested is a marvelous idea. And you see the thing is the tik tak
guess. I mean, we don't know what it is. None of us
can explain what that was. I mean, I was actually quite amazed,
said to release this information. I couldn't believe it because in a way,
in a way, it's an admission to something we don't know. I know,
I've had the report. They published the disclosure, but it wasn't really
disclosure. It was a pitifully weak attempt to try and dissolve a lot of
propaganda. But there was the mention that it could be non terrestrial. But
I want to ask you, while we're on the subjects, it's very fascinating
what are your opinions of time travel? Do you believe? I just want
to ask you, you know, because we mentioned time, what is your
own opinions of times Do you think it's possible or not? Hope if I
start off where I think it's more likely, and then I'll go more into
march temporial hat world. Yes, I plain just a by way. I
think this the honest answers that really don't know, and I don't think anybody
else does. However, I have been looking at the paranormal of very long
time, and one thing that does occasionally come out with it's got a time
slip where people seem to go back in time. And I've even spoken to
a couple of people through through the years who have said they have actually witnessed
temporarily going back in time. And some of these people are One person in
particular is somebody I know very well and trusted, and I generally believe that
if you can trust people like that, that there was some form of time
travel. And it may not have been time travel itself, it may be
some sort of illusion, it certainly does show that there's some sort of possibility.
And I don't know if you remember in the nineties a TV show called
Strange but True with Mike Lastpell. Not particularly No, I don't think I
watched that, but I think I have heard of that. Yes, it
was. I loved it. And one of the things that talked about time
slips was a couple of holiday holidaying in France and the couple's reports it was
they meant I think it was in the seventies that happened, but they essentially
reported going back in time. But they seem to have interaction with the people
of that time, and that account would be suggestive that there was some form
of time travel. Yes, however, so I'm open to the possibility,
and certainly these sort of encounters certainly suggest that there's some form of time travel
there. What I will say, and this is going into Mark timpoile Heart
territory. I have had a number of encounters of of the phenomenon myself in
the sky and the one that said about before in ninety one, there was
maybe about there's been about twenty to thirty sightings, but there's been about five
or six that are unusually intense where maybe the phenom and I got quite close
or it was incredibly bright and the most intense by far was one in nineteen
nineteen nine. And it's okay just to go into this very briefly, and
I'll tell you why. With the house where I lived in, there was
an old I wasn't a waste ground, but I was just it was called
the field, and it hud I was just abandoned, so just nature taking
over. And it was a great place as a child to playing, becaus
I had a place like that myself as well. Yes, And I got
this really really strong feeling, Ronnie. I get them from time to time,
and I call it the spidy sense, so like from Spider Man,
I just psychic sense that something's going to happen. I got this really strong
feeling to say, there's something about to happen. And I put the dog
back and I went back the field myself. And I can't remember too much
about the initial for seconds, but the entire sky, one part of it
turned this like purplish blue, and the other side turned this like pinkish red,
and then a white light. Now I listened to Terry Lovelace Laser's Encounter
at the Devil's Den Milky Milky Laser, and that was the best description of
it. That I've ever had. Hour just called it like a light,
but it was kind of like this little, this white light that just just
was right over just in the middle. But in terms of time travel,
what was really interesting was it felt like reality. It wasn't melting. I
know that sounds silly, but it just didn't feel that anything was real.
So it's really hard to describe, but maybe imagine being a dream. It's
more a dream than reality. And what was really unusual was that if you
were seeing David Attenburg's programs, it's maybe doing that thing like Life of Plants
sees it something of a seedling and it grows up to being a tree next
to me. To see the clouds in the in the background going really really
fast to show the days of going a lot quicker, the clouds were doing
exactly that in my encounter. They were just moving incredibly fast, so like
almost like you remember the time machine from HG were else, Yeah, and
it was that. It was it was so frightening, Ronnie. I just
had to get out there out of that field. But the reason why I'm
saying this is if that was the clouds moving a lot faster, because it
wasn't that they were moving faster, but time was going faster. There's maybe
a suggestive element to say time and space are not as as fixed as we
perceive them. But again, I've got to stay this is just my opinion,
and it is a bit tnfolly hatty as well. No, I absolutely
find that fascinating because this is the problem with time travel as we're into the
computer kind of realm and the UFOs. It's the fact that what confounds me
about this time travel is that time doesn't exist. It's not real. Only
the moment is real. But I agree with you, there is something because
I had foresight. I published this in a book a few years ago.
What happened an incident, which was true. The gentleman I had proof because
he was on the other side. He was in New York. I was
here. I saw a piece of the future as a weak fragment, and
it was exactly as it was. I didn't know at the time it was
the future. I had no idea. It came as visions and sensations.
It was only the next day that he confirmed this. He showed me photographs
of what I had told him. I'd seen so in a way estensively speaking,
in a weak kind of manner. I had seen the future, So
is that time traveling using the mind? So this is what completely confuses me.
One moment, I keep saying time travel is not possible, and yet
another I'm absolutely blown by people. As you said, the time slips.
That was a time slip for the future, and I had seen this again,
I even and I will state this on radio because I tell you the
truth, the same thing happened. I was with Philip up here and I
just had this feeling that Nicholas Sturgeon would resign. I was not influenced by
the news. I was not influenced by anything. I didn't know she was
going to resign. I just had this feeling, and I said to Philip,
I think Nicholas Sturgeon is going to resign. I didn't know about all
the other affairs. Will respect that. I won't mention that. I just
saw her resigning. I forgot all about her. The next morning she resigned.
She handed in her resignation. So there is something. You know,
we fancified with machines, with devices that are able to thrust us into another
time set, but this was the mind. So it just confounds me.
I just wanted to ask your opinions. And well, actually, going back
to what I said at the start, I used to have those dreams.
And again, you a lot of the audience and a lot of people who
are listening, are I've said after the same thing, if I had dreams
that have happened in the future, Yes, these were dreams. They were
waking. I was there. I could see it as I was walking to
them. So this is what I'm seeing as I'm awake. So and it
were so strong I had to give it out as I did the gentleman like
the sand all this sound. I kept seeing all this sound with him.
He was in New York. I didn't know him. I've never met William.
I was talking with him and I kept saying, I keep seeing the
sound. I nearly passed it up, but it was so strong. I
said to him, does this mean anything to you? No? No,
it was Monday. He sent me photographs of miles of sad way had to
work. He said, you're not going to believe this. He sent me
three images and he said, it's never worked sound before. So you see
what I mean. It's really weird. Some may put it down again to
coincidence, but if we go down to the coincidence coincidence, you gain nothing.
This is not coincidence. You just know, yes, you just know
there some Yeah, there is unware of your laugh. This is it.
This is going back a bit. Do you remember Paul McKenna from the nineties,
Yes, Paul McKenna in ninety three, so thirty years ago Crocy book
called The Hymnaughtic World of Paul McKenna, and he talked about a guy called
doctor Chet Snow And I don't know either. I've tried to look him on
Google and remember seeing something but it was quite vague. But Paul McKenna anyway
was really engrossed with his work, and he did past life regressions, but
over and above that it was did future life regressions. And I don't know
whether it's come true or not. Certainly thirty years on, i'd like to
hear Paul mckenner's thoughts about it. Now. There's many people that seem to
have done past life regression or future life aggression now, especially if it's something
about the future that will suggest there is an ant of time travel because the
thing hasn't happened yet, but you perceived it. Essentially it's almost the information
has come back to you. So yeah, I really don't know what.
I'm barely open to the possibility. Especially they as like to me of us,
we've had the dreams, and there's something I've always felt, there's a
uniqueness, almost like a specific stamp to every moment. Yes, yes,
yea yeah. But the thing is with the future is that I mean,
it's so it's it's this is billions of variables. It's unpredicted, it is
not set in stone. I mean, I mean people talk about the Mandela
effect, you know, when certain things have been changed and they knew they
were set at the time and they're different now. I don't know what to
make of that. It's possible. We had to tread carefully with time travel.
I denounced it to begin with. I admitted I denounced it. I
thought it's not possible. But this has confounded me, because do you know,
with this paradox, this this phenomena, you will find I think you
may have found this too, that when you are so set on an opinion,
personally personal opinions, yours and my opinions, or we have to respect
them as I respect yours, I know you respect mine. There's always something
that comes along and pulls them right from under your feet, isn't there There's
something that says no, no, no no. You tread like me,
you know, you tread very carefully. Listen to me, because I was
denouncing it, and I kept thinking this other terrible thing kept niggling, thinking,
well, it doesn't quite make any sense, it doesn't add up.
So I'm like yourself, Mark, I have to be very careful. I'm
not sure. But there's something too, it isn't there, Maybe not time
itself. There's something else what interested me. It's what you stated. Now
this interested me because I've been writing about this is about reality. You said
it's as if it was melting, as if it wasn't real. At that
point when you were in that waste land, when you were lying there,
you saw it as if it wasn't real. That's fascinating. The last went
back Putter. Listen to EA and I can't remember the end of the book,
but there's a chap who's been speaking to Google, for example, and
he's talking about reality being some sort of advanced AI style virtual virtual reality.
And yes, I'm personally not really for that that that paradigm because Essentially,
what they're doing is doing something that like say, for example, of Eastern
texts are being seen for thousand, thousands of years and adding things like nonfable
characters to the to the theory. So yes, I think it's a rehash
of a very old theory basically, so yes. But certainly even there has
been talks about that for from from many different religious scripts that reality is an
illusion, and in that moment, it very much felt like an illusion at
that time, Yes, But then when we go to the person, I
mean everything is made up of atom speaking, they called it the holographic world,
the holographic universe some people. I mean, we have to a pre
shape that I know, everything's more physical to us here because it's based on
the frequency that we are attuned to. Basically, so who's to argue that,
I don't know. But you know, when we look at that kind
of thing, you know, we're still very very infantile compared to the cosmos.
Because I stated that the whole universe is like an atom. When you
look at the sun, the star, it is the nucleos. Then you
have the protons and newtons running around it. I know they go different ways,
but the basic idea is we all turn everything is in motion. Everything
everything is in motion, right down to the smallest subatomic particle. We are
always moving. Where this is what the physical universe means. So perhaps something
is intervening with us or connecting with us, that their complete concept of the
atomic structure is so different. They only attain that when they enter our realm,
they become corporeal, they become physical, They attuned to our vibration,
whereas these things, like you said about what you saw in the wasteland was
something that could have completely disseminated the whole thing using a technology or using physics,
or being part of a world that we could hardly even begin to dream
of. You it's I love bashing ideas out concepts, ideas because like yourself,
I'm striving to try and understand. I do not believe in a federation.
I don't believe in anything like that. I have to be careful.
This is my own opinion. I'm not offending anyone. I just have to
explain to our listeners. I would not offend anyone. This is just a
personal opinion. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I don't attest to
the fact of a federation or any kind of beings that are here to help
us, because there's been absolutely no proven they've done nothing. We keep reading
these comments about people suggesting that they're here for the better, but they are
not. They've done nothing. We are basically on our own. We have
something whether us. There are things with us. We don't know whether they're
good or bad. You know this is the thing, but your idea mark
of this tool being used to perhaps give us some insight, it is wonderful
and it is sad. What you stated was quite clear cut and very realistic.
We're not going to know in this time, but our children and our
children's children may become wiser to this phenomena been here for a long time.
The one thing I would see is when we're talking about going back to here
the limits, and as you said before, they kind of hushed it up
afterwards, and then last week, so we're recording on the twenty sixth of
April twenty and twenty three, and last week the arrow there, who's all
something a normally organization kind remember what it is, went to Congress and said
that they're having a data driven approach to look at ups and UFOs, And
I'm looking at nowadays is looking at data driven, and the way I see
it is almost like being a policement, and a policement will say to you,
I don't want to hear what you thought about this, I want to
hear the facts. And I think that's how we use data and AI as
part of that to do to get more insights. And then what we do
is we get these sort of incidents and then we find out that it's the
phenomena has done something like being in a location sixty miles away where we're meant
to be. That's where we get But going back to the thing about being
data driven and about not knowing about trying to work on how to how to
get there, you're absolutely right because the phenomena keeps on changing. And one
thing that's really interesting is I'm not joking. Everybody can google this themselves.
People actually use ufold data for data science and occasionally you'll see even the media
coming over and saying, oh, data scientists have said this about UFOLD data.
What it's actually come from is that a new FORAC or organization in the
States, and I think even move on of data as well. The data
set they're published. Yes, it's all the ninety thousand sightings, and what
you see is not only changes in the reports of different types of objects,
but as the years have gone by, the recitings have changed. So say,
for example, back in the forties and the fifties, the social shape
was really popular the nineties of the triangle, and I was looking at the
some people's reports and the data set, and now the more popular sightings are
just either the things changing or it's a light really hard to classify, but
also sees that the phenomena seems to be changing. And because also the fact
that there are a lot of misidentifications and I'm will putting my hands up to
say I've misidentified many times and I've had to think about it and then go
back and realize I have misidentified. But it's really easy to do. So
a lot of cited our misidentifications. Yes, where I think is I don't
think that we should throw out sitings as because it still thinks a really valuable
data set and there are things that we can do to make it better.
But what you're saying about trying to get insects into the phenomena, I think
there's one data set that we really overlook a lot of the time, and
that's us us as human beings, because we might not know what the phenomena's
intentions are. But what we can do is see how it's affected us,
and that's physically psychologically and even how to change our character. And nowadays we
have that data. We have social media data for example, and we even
have things like fitbits for example, and yes, in the case of Terry
Lovelace, yes that was very handy actually his fit yes, yes, yeah,
So what I was thinking about social media is it's trying to get almost
like a user, a profile, an experience or profile based on social media
data. And again before the i'd have distress that they be every ethical,
legal, and even compassionate guidelines being put in place when we're doing that sort
of data. Yes, but what we could see is I'd like to see
if there's a difference of people tend to be into the environment, for example,
or seem to be creative, or or is there depression or is their
fear, or if people seem to have seemed to be liking things about or
or in groups about things about illnesses for example, Like marketers use social media
data profile on us. If we can get a profile and an experience is
we can maybe get to some small degree an understanding of the intent of the
phenomena based on how we interact with it. I think that's probably our richest
and probably a cheapest and also a most under untapped the assortment it comes to
the phenomena. Yes, you stated this before to me, Yes, the
reactions and the aftermath of them. Certainly when I saw mine only once then,
but I don't think they were what they appeared to be. As only
later on in life that you get wiser and you think, well, there's
something behind all that they weren't as they were. They weren't plucking out pieces
of fear. You'll see things that I've feared, doctors, cheshire cats,
cats, things that they plucked them out and use them against me, some
kind of weapon fear. I don't know. I'm looking into it, but
I don't believe they were all. Yes, But after that, certainly I
was fearful and paranoid for a while, A very very fearful at night because
I kept the light on, or I kept propping things against the door.
Even though they took the two the ceiling, it had overall scars. It
left me, but it became creative. Now, I can't say if I
was creative before or after. I think I was creative before. I don't
think that caused creation. I could be wrong, but I was creative before
that. So I don't know how to answer that. And I'd actually trusted
them to be what they were at the time. I didn't think they were
aliens. Remember in ninety to two. Even then, these weren't fixed,
the grades weren't fixed. They were not fashionable. I didn't know what they
were. I wasn't interested in them, really, but they were appeared as
doctors. So this was used or utilized in a manner of generating fear of
being apprehended in albeit not a nasty way, but they were forceful. So
as for the effects, I think I was too young. But there again,
children are smart because they can tell you how they feel. Oh,
you the parents can understand the differences in traits or behaviors. That's very good
what you suggested. I think there's I think there's a lot to this.
Now, I'm going to be completely honest with the I when people talk about
it, I think there's a bit of a this is all super fanciful,
and people will say they're leaving nowadays, say we're using EI to do this
or to do that. And what I would say is that when it comes
to this approach, it's actually quite boring because what you have to do you
have to look at the data and then think, right, is that algorithm
works? No, I don't know. And then and you have to look
through over and over and over again just to get insights. It's it's these
people are actually called data scientists. And I'll give you a laugh. There's
a there's a UFO company in New York scoring Enigma Labs, and they're looking
for a data scientist. They're paying up to two hundred and fifteen thousand dollars
and it's to study UFO data. So if if they're listening today, Hi,
yes, yes, you'll be a perfect man for it. I tell
you my knowlogy, I think so. I think you're you're very analytical in
a respected manner because you you look at data. You're you're a programmer anywhere
you know about computers. But your your methods are the tools you suggested.
Will be the ideal candidate for it because you could tell them no, this
is not right, that's right, this looks feasible, that doesn't look feasible,
you know, things like that. We are drawing to a close,
you know, we go so quick the hour mark. It's been wonderful.
We're drawing to a close. But what we have discussed today is absolutely amazing,
and I am so grateful. I have to thank you for relaying your
past childhood. What infused you to become involved in the UFO a paradox,
and will call it that because we have no understanding what they are. I
mean, you will have people, as we say, who will know what
planet they come from, what species they are, what kind of model ships?
Say, we will leave that all behind. I think we'll just need
that because we don't know what we're diding with. There is something here with
us, most definitely, absolutely there have been encounters. I believe that people
who have seen the since generally have seen what they envisioned or they saw.
Just aside with the doctors, I hadn't seen them again that was natinated.
So I have seen the UFOs. I've seen nothing now since twenty and sixteen,
it's gone dead. Nothing, absolutely nothing seems last time I saw a
UFO, and that that's a story for another day. I can just very
briefly tell you a story about my fear with UFOs I had. Now,
I think I've had some small encounters. And where mean small encounters, I
mean like maybe stars moving stars. Now before you think satellites, these would
do unusual maneuvers like they come down, like they come down and go back
up, or there'd be a fleet of them. And this is year before
skyling and the woman actively skyling did, so they're not. But the second
encounter was I was just turned seventeen. I was ninety six, and I
very briefly I saw it was like imagine a chimney of smoke, and then
imagine the smoke just condensed into a small cloud about twenty feet above the air,
and imagine the way like smoke is like in the wind it goes.
Really that's up, going really quickly. I was doing that, but going
in different different shapes, going all over the place. It wasn't like the
way the wind would would move it in just one direction, going in many
different directions incredibly ratically. And there was no wind. It was a really
quiet night. I took the dog out, walked around. I saw it,
looked at it, and didn't seem to notice me. Then next night
I did the same. It was there and it did notice me, paid
attention to me, for sure, and it ballowed me down the street.
And as it followed me down the street, it started to change and all
the like the discurity lights would start to go off, and all the neighbors
on the neighbor's houses, now there wasn't many of them because still ninety six,
but still a few. And when I was closer and closer to the
house, and this had lasted for about ten minutes or so, and it
would let out beams of like not in a threatening wehere, like a laser,
just like mainly like a torch, for example. And it kept on
changing, and by the time we got to my house, I actually turned
into a number of small, little like balls. And then they'll contract and
then expand, and they'll get brighter and they get darker. And I wasn't
scared then, but I went to the house and they almost seemed like they're
going to come into the garden, and I got really frightened then, and
around the house came out they start doing the thing again. I thought this
is too much for me, and then I ran back in and the neighbors
like doing secret light went out for three or four days, and every time
I left the house, I was petrified because that's scret light was going out
erratically. This is only where a human we'll be able to figure this out.
I only figure this out about two months ago. Every encounter I ever
had with you afterwards, they always kept the distance. It never got that
close. So for me, anyway, that suggests that and again you were
aware you were frightened. Yes, yes, and that's what that's my take.
So, and that's where the beauty of being data driven is we get
these accounts, we get strong accounts, and then we find out these things
to show the intent. And that's where I think the future of your apologies.
But I also see where the fear wasn't involved. Very fascinating. Well,
that we're coming to the end of it. And you've been listening to
Mark Anderson a wonderful chat. Myself and Mark have had a computer programer,
brilliant gentleman. He's also doing fair few talks, and no doubt I think
you'll be writing a book soon. Jeffrey plans to write a book. I've
got time. I'm The next thing I'm going to be interested is mental health
and I'm strange to be a counselor, so if I've got the time,
I will be the good Lord. You have a lot on your plate,
but I think you're a fascinating and wonderful gentleman, and I think what you've
suggested is absolutely fascinating. Good luck with your talk. You'll be meeting Malcolm
Robinson and Alison Dunlob. Yes, and also I think what you're suggesting is
wonderful and we will certainly have you one again with Philip hopefully next time.
I'm sorry, ladies, chaps to pop out to season clients so he can't
be here as he had planned because it's spoken to Mark earlier today or communicated
with him. But thank you very much. Mark, there's been a fascinating
topic. Thank you for sharing your views. They're much appreciated. And ladies
and gentlemen, you've been listening to the pa UK Radio Network, your host
ronaldkin Seller. Stay safe and keep watching the skies or if you say anything,
running as far away as you can because as the