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What is krack lacking? Hardwoo Knox
listeners, I am Dance Valley coming out.

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You want us more without my fantabulous
co host Adam Promo. I am

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pumped up full of taffeen. Ready
to talk about the next team on our

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look Ahead Train. It's the Utah
Jazz. Tony Jones of The Athletic was

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nice enough to come on and chat
with me for about an hour, covering

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everything and anything about the Jazz heading
into this season and even a little bit

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longer term than that. He covers
the Utah Jazz and the NBA at large

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a little bit for the Athletic.
He's at t Jones on the NBA on

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Twitter at t Jones on the NBA
sp exactly as it sounds. Great conversation.

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Highly recommend it with a team where
there is more to talk about than

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I think meets the eye. You
look at the top seven players and their

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rotation just being back, and you
can kind of write it off as,

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oh, there's continuity. They have
Rudy Gay, they got Eric Peshkal.

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They added a side whiteside draft to
Jared Butler, who might end up being

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one of the seals of the draft. We get into all that, but

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there's a lot more to talk about
with this team than their continuity suggests.

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Before we get started, usual housekeeping
notes slash please pretty pretty Please remember to

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rate, review, and subscribe to
Hardwooknox wherever you get your podcasts, whether

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as you have access to it. We

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ask that you take ten seconds search
Hardwood Knox, throw us a five star

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rating, write a review. Those
help us out on the charts. A

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crap ton cannot reiterate how much that
helps us. If this is your first

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time listening to this podcast because you're
a diehard Utah jazz fan, Tony retweeted

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this and you decided to click on
it, you're here somehow by accident.

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Consider throwing us that permanent subscription downloading
all our episodes. We are pleasantly sub

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mediocre when it comes to covering the
entire MBA at large. We're only mildly

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the modestly insufferable, which I think
that's a pretty high compliment when looking at

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today's NBA leaguewide media landscape. Follow
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on YouTube, YouTube dot com search
Hardwood Knox, hit that subscribe button and

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we're on Instagram at Hardwood Underscore Knocks. Without further delay, let's get to

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talking all things and then some Utah
jazz with Tony Jones. Thank you so

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much for coming back to the Hardware
Knocks podcasts to talk some Utah jazz with

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me ahead of the start of this
season. First and foremost, though,

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how are you doing? I am
good? Thank you for having me.

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I'm fired up. I'm ready for
the season to start. And what are

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we nine days out now? Or
wait a minute, when when is the

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when? When? When are we? When are we publishing the podcast?

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You'll be about eight days out,
so this is going We're recording late Sunday

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night is going up on Monday.
Okay, so we'll be eight days out.

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Yes, it's come ready. I'm
ready to go. It's good that

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you're ready because as I've been going
through these things, I keep thinking that

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I probably could have used like another
ten or twelve days of the offseason.

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I'm not gonna lie, why another
ten or twelve Jayson? This is to

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get my bearings a little bit more. I probably would have liked to have

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had more of these podcasts out,
for one, but I think we're in

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kind of a marathon of basketball ever
since the bubble, and the off seasons

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have been short, and I'm excited
as always, but I could have used

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probably another just you know, maybe
like ten days a week and a half.

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That is fair. That is fair. So I agree with you there.

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I mean, so next next,
So the flip side is right,

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like next year at this time,
well not at this time, but next

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year, we're gonna have a regular
off season and we're gonna have like six

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weeks of nothing instead of what like
three or four weeks or nothing. Right,

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We're all going to be We're all
gonna be like feeding, yeah at

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that point. So I mean,
look, Twitter was feeding already. So

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if you give them another like you
know, two, three, four weeks

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on top of what we just had, I I'll have to move myself from

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social media for a little bit.
Well that's the thing, Like you give

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another three or four weeks, like
you know, the takes are gonna fly.

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Yeah. With the Jazz specifically,
is there before you even getting into

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the roster, just kind of looking
at how the past two seasons ended,

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where there were legitimate explanations who had
happened, but they did blow two leads.

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First in the bubble, the three
to one lead, and then this

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past year against a Clippers team.
Yes, Mike Conley's banged up, Donovan

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Mitchell's banged up, but the Clippers
don't have Kawhie. They're up two to

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ozho don't even get to a game
seven. Is there, like, there's

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always a sense of urgency with a
team that's this good, But is there

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maybe a little bit more of a
sense of urgency just given how their past

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two postseasons ended. I think there
has to be. I think the you

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know, the balance that they have
to strike is, you know, the

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sense of urgency combined with not panicking. Mike, you have to be they

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have to be you know, secure
and who they are as a team,

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but they have to be urgent at
the same time. And you know,

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the urgency that that's around the franchise
is frankly, you know, out of

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the control with the players, right, So what's the urgency. The urgency

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is that next year, you know, this franchise becomes a repeater luxury text

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franchise. Correct, So that's the
urgency there, So you know next summer,

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you know, whether it's Jazzing wins
a championship or not, There's going

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to be some some pretty difficult decisions
that have to be made, you know,

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above above the level of the players. So that's the urgency there.

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The urgency is the urgency that's probably
in the player's control, is that you

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know, Rudy Gate is thirty five
years old, Joe Ingles is approaching his

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mid thirties, Boy Blagdanovic is in
his thirties, Mike Conley is is thirty

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four years old, and you know, starting to develop a history of soft

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tissue injuries, you know, things
like that. So you know, the

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urgency, you know, the urgency
there is okay, you know, maybe

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the core of the team, you
know, Donovan Mitchell is twenty five and

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Rudy gobert Is is it's twenty nine
and still in its prime. But you

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know, the core pieces around the
two star pieces, you know, are

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are getting a little bit longer the
tooth. So there's urgency there. And

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I think the general urgency urgency is
that in the NBA window aren't open very

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long for small market teams just aren't
like if you're a if you're a small

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market team, you better well take
advantage of it. I mean, even

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the Cleveland Cavaliers, you know,
with you know, one of the three

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greatest players you know ever their their
window wasn't open very long, so you

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know, they you know, it's
it's it's definitely. It's definitely one of

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those things where you know, I
mean, the Jazz have a dope.

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You know, you probably wouldn't label
them the specific favorite, but I mean

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they're they're a team that's probably a
contender, and you know, they're a

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team that that if if to me, if if they're going to make that

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that breakthrough to get past that second
round to get get to the Western Conference

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finals and the NBA Finals or whatever, it's probably going to have to come

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this year. And if you are
them, and you already sort of alluded

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to this when you were going through
Bogdanovich, Conley, Joe Angles and their

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age among those three, is there
any one like specifically that you might be

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concerned of seeing a little bit more
of a starker drop off from just given

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how advanced they are up in years. I mean even going through to Gay

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like he said, he's thirty five
and they just added him to the team

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as well. Yeah, I mean, you know, is I'm probably the

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most worried about Joe Angles because you
know, I've seen last past two or

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three years. You know, he
hasn't looked fresh in the playoffs. He

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hasn't looked fresh in the postseason.
So if I'm the Jazz, I'm probably

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going to be, you know,
really careful with him this year to try

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to keep him fresh for a postseason. You know, I'm worried. I'd

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be worried about Mike Conley, not
because of this game. I think his

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game is actually, you know,
pretty darn good at this level. I

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mean, at this age, I
think his game is it's pretty close to

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his prime. But you know,
soft tissue injuries are soft tissue injuries,

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and when they start happening in the
thirty thirty thirty year olds, you know,

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hamstrings, hamstrings at the wrong time, that's something that that that you

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have to be worried about. So
if I'm the Jazz, especially with Jared

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Butler, having Jared Butler this year, I'm gonna be really careful with Mike

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Comedy. Like if I were to
Jazz, I might not even play Mike

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Conley and back to backs this year
at all, you know, So you

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know it's it's you know, those
are the two that that stand out to

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me. I think Bogdanovich is you
know, obviously his game is you know,

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he's he's he's such a catching shoe
threat, and you know he's such

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a threat, you know, off
the dribble, you know, in terms

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of closing our situations, he's he's
held up pretty well. You know.

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I think that that Rudy Gay,
once he reinvented his game, he's held

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up really well. I thought he
was really good in San Antonio last year.

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You know. So it's it's it's
a mix in a match. I

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think that, you know, as
long as they are healthy, the two

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constants during the regular season are gonna
be, you know, have to be

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Mitchell and Gobert, and then you
just kind of then you just kind of

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mix and match around those two.
The Rudy Gobert, his course as per

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usual, veered too far from reality. I think after that Clippers series and

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people sort of just harp on the
fact that La was smaller, and is

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that really a problem for Gobert,
Where it seems like the real problem was

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the players. He doesn't just have
athletic defenders in front of him. That's

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gonna make his life more difficult when
he has to deal with having, you

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know, like a team that can
spread the floor from all five positions.

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I've also seen people mentioned that,
and this is the one that I'm most

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curious about that he needs to figure
out a way or the Jazz need to

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figure out a way for him to
punish those sorts of lineups on offense because

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he's so much bigger. Is that
something looking offensively that the Jazz actually need

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to focus like what does that look
like? You're not are you really tossing

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the ball to Rudy Gobert in the
post against a smaller dude just trying to

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capitalize on that size advantage. Well, I mean the thing that you that

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you that you look at on an
obvious perspective is the very next series Phoenix

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the Clippers out of that small lineup, because they did that with DeAndre eight,

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Like they come they you know,
they said, okay, if you're

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gonna put Nick Theatum or Terrence Mann
or whoever you know on on eight,

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and we're gonna throw eight in the
ball, and he's gonna score, and

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he's gonna go to he's gonna go
to the offensive boards and he's he's gonna

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do a number of things, you
know, but also you know, Phoenix

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was healthier than the Jazz last year, particularly there perimeter guys. So those

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guys were able to stay in front
of people. And you know, and

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that's the thing with what happened with
with with the Jazz against the Clippers.

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It wasn't Rudy Gobert. It was
the fact that the other four guys around

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Rudy couldn't stay in front of anybody. And so you know, you had

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you know, Donovan Mitchell wasn't able
to stay in front of anybody. Mike

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00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,639
Conley, you know, in the
game that he came back, he obviously

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couldn't stay in front of anybody.
Those two were those two guys were hurt.

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You know, Royce O'Neill had issues
with Paul George, but that was

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you know, Paul George was was
playing at pretty much an all time level

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for him. You know, Kawhi
Leonard was getting whatever he wanted, you

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00:12:24,919 --> 00:12:30,840
know, So you know, it
was it was putting Rudy in impossible situations.

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Okay, so do I help offer
my guy and then you know,

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if I help offer my guide,
then there's a guy in a corner that's

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gonna be taking practice level jump shots, and the Jazz made the decision that

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for that game six, they were
going to leave Terrence Man open, and

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you know, in Terrence Man,
to his credit, took advantage. So

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you know, I don't you know, I think anybody who who's who saw

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those games, who wants to be
honest with themselves, you know, and

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00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:13,240
and you know knows the game of
basketball, it should have been obvious that,

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00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,879
you know, that wasn't on Rudy. That was that was that was

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an entire team collapsing defensively. And
you know, if you want to say

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that Rudy Gobert got played off the
four about the Clippers, I mean that's

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00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:30,159
fine. I mean it's it's not
accurate, but you know it's fine.

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00:13:30,159 --> 00:13:37,039
That's you're a prerogative. So you
know, the the the point of Rudy

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being able to to punish teams offensively. You know, France did it in

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the Olympics and they gave they threw
on the ball and if you drop the

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pass, they threw on the ball
again. Whether that translates to the NBA,

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that's that's that's that's one thing.
But I mean it at least worked

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00:13:58,279 --> 00:14:03,600
a little bit international basketball. But
you know, you know, if the

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Jazz are going to beat small ball
line ups, they're just going to have

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00:14:07,799 --> 00:14:09,480
to guard better, you know,
one on one, and that's what they

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00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:18,799
didn't do against the Clippers. The
thing that's probably more concerning to me is

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what has happened the past two seasons
to their defense with Rudy Gobert off the

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court. And I'm wondering if you
think they're better built to navigate those stretches

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when he's on the bench, and
will they even I think a lot of

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people have wondered with the addition of
Rudy Gay in the non Gobert minutes,

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in the you know whatever thirteen to
eighteen minutes that he's not on the floor

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00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,240
per game for any of that time, will the experiment going actually smaller?

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00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:46,720
Should we be expecting Cassan Whiteside still
to soak up majority of those stretches and

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00:14:46,759 --> 00:14:50,559
the Jazz will play with a traditional
big. So the thing about it is

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that in the regular season last year, the Jazz were pretty actually pretty good

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in the Rudy Gobert minutes because Quinn
Snyder found, you know, a formula

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that work right, Like he bought
Derek Favors in to play with. You

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know, most of the starting lineup, those guys held their own for you

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know, the back half of four
first quarters, and then Mike Conley and

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Rudy Gobert came back and they obliterated
second units. So and then that all

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changed in the playoffs when they when
they ran into the Clippers, because the

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Clippers were able to dictate matchups by
going small. So, you know,

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the question the better I don't want
to say the better question, but I

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think the question for me is how
matchup proof can the Jazz get between now

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and the playoffs, you know,
seven, eight, nine months from now,

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however, however long that we have
to go into the playoffs. And

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that's what's to me, what's going
to ultimately determine their destiny because throughout Quinn

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Snyder's, throughout Quinn Snyder's ten years
had coach, the problem is that that

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they have not been they have not
been matchup proof. They run into,

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you know, a team that can
spread them out, you know, it's

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it's it becomes detrimental for them.
The difference last year this year from all

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the other years is it didn't matter
whether they were matching the proof or not.

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Those teams were just better. The
Houston teams were just better. The

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Golden State teams were just better.
You know, last year was the team

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was the was the first team that
they had that you could say, Okay,

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this team can make a deep playoff
runt. So you know, and

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and that's why you know that the
recency bias, that's why it's it's such

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a start, it's such a stark
you know, memory your mind. So

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you know. The question going forward
for this Jazz team is is if they

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run into Fuller Clippers in the playoffs
and those those guys try to go small

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or those guys go small, if
they run into another team and they go

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small, or if they run into
the Los Angeles Lakers and those guys play

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two bigs, you know, can
they match up or match down to whatever,

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to whatever matchup they have to face. One of the things they do

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have going for them is that one
of their two most important players only just

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turned twenty five. And Donovan Mitchell, he was he was so good last

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year. I thought really weaponized his
off the dribble. Three. There are

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still things that you can obviously harp
on about his game. I thought that

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his overall shot selection felt like it
got a little bit better. What does

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the next like step from Donovan Mitchell
look like? Well, like, what

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are you looking or thinking that he
needs to improve upon the most going forward

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to help take this team sort of
to that next plane. Yeah, I

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think the ability to manage a game
is his next step, right. And

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when I say manage a game,
right, like I'm thinking Mike Conley,

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Chris Paul. You know, those
guys are like maestros, right, they

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know exactly who to get the ball
to when they get the ball to that

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guy, how to get the ball
to that guy that needs the ball.

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They know exactly which player to run, They know exactly which matchup to exploit.

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And if if Donovan Mitchell, you
know, I mean it's you know,

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I use Chris Paul as an extreme
example, like, like it's going

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to be hard for anybody to ever
run a team like Chris Paul runs a

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team. But if Donovan Mitchell gets
better at running a team to go with

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what he is as an offensive threat, he becomes really leafal in terms of

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in terms of what he is as
a basketball player. Because as a score,

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especially as a playoff scorer, he's
proving to be one of the best

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in the game. And you know, so I think that I think defense

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is an obvious place that you that
you can point too. You know,

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so defensively, I use Stephen Curry
as an example. And so the reason

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why I use Stephen Curry as an
example, right, because defensively, Stephen

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Curry is never in a vacuum going
to be an above average defender. But

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what he is is an extremely competitive
defender. So if you get Stephen Curry

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in space on an island, you
know you can take advantage of him.

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But what Stephen Curry does well defensively, it's he works hard to not allow

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himself to to to get on an
island and be taking advantage of So you

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know you're never going to ask Donovan
like you ask Donovan Mitchell. Okay,

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we need you to go and score
twenty six points a game. We need

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you to to get five or six
assists a game. We need you to

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handle thirty five or forty percent of
the offensive possessions. We need you to

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expend a lot of energy offensively.
So we don't need you to be Kawhi

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Leonard defensively. But if he can
get to like the level of where Curry

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is like super competitive defensively and not
a detriment, then he would think he

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becomes a much better overall players.
So I think that that's that's the example

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I would use for for for Curry
there, I mean for for Donovan Mitchell

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bare and he's someone who has like
the capability of proving defensively, right.

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I guess if you're worried about how
much energy he's expending on offense and the

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usage there, how much energy he
has on defense is certainly something to think

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about when you watch him as an
actual player. He feels like someone who

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should be better on defense from the
point of attack, from even whatever it

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is, whether he's away from the
ball, whether he's just you know,

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in the corners. He feels like
someone who should be on a better at

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defense than he is. Correct.
Yeah, So here's here's a great example

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of that, right, perfect example
of that. Actually, So two years

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ago, Game seven against Denver in
the first round. You know, Jamal

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Murray has been absolutely destroying the Jazz
throughout that entire series, right, like

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dropping fifty, doing whatever. And
so for that Game seven, Donovan Mitchell

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for for a large part of that
Game seven, Mike Conley did as well.

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They both took. You know,
they said, Okay, we're going

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to sit down on Jamal Murray and
we're gonna move our feet and we're going

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to expend a lot of energy defensively. And that game turned into a rock

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fight. I believe. It was
like what was the final score that game,

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It was like eighty two eighty one
or something like that. And Donovan

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Mitchell was really really good defensively on
Jamal Murray in that one game, and

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00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:33,359
he was really bad offensively. And
he was really bad offensively because he was

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exhausted because he had expended so much
energy defensively, and he turned the ball

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over I believe, on the final
the next last offensive possession, just because

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he didn't have the juice in his
legs to get to where he needed to

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go, you know, So that
you have to so you don't want Donovan

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Mitchell to be a turn down offensively, but you also don't want him to

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max out his legs defensively and not
be able to carry you offensively. So

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it's a balance, and it's and
it's you know, it's a it's a

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balance that they're gonna have to strike. But you know, the best players

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in the league, I mean,
the best players in the league are guys

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that that get it done on both
ends of the floor. So you know,

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it's definitely going to be interesting to
see if Donovan can take that next

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step and and and take that next
step in his development. Jordan Carson was

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super good last season. We did
see some of his shooting percentages slip off

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as the year ago went on.
Do you see that performance that he had

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00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:57,559
last year as something that he can
repeat. I think it's it's it's going

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00:23:57,599 --> 00:24:06,319
to depend on where's jump is,
and you know, and if if he's

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able to if he's able to continue
to get separation to to to to figure

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00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,920
out the shooting and and you know, because he shot the ball really well

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00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,640
in the first half of the season, he didn't shoot the ball well in

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the second half of the season.
But but the thing that that separated Jordan

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Clarkson for me last year was,
you know, he was getting into the

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00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:34,720
lane off the dribble, and you
know, he's getting to the basket,

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he was finishing around the basket.
He wasn't quite as good as that in

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00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,319
the second half of the season,
and I think that he has to try

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to get back to that as well. But you know, he was.

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00:24:49,599 --> 00:24:56,960
He was somebody who you know,
carried the offense off the bench, uh,

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00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:03,119
in in large stretchers last year.
I remember a game in Indiana last

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00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,759
year where it was something like a
Jazz's third game in four nights. They

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00:25:06,759 --> 00:25:11,680
were on the road. It was
a Sunday game. Uh, Donovan Mitchell

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was clearly exhausted. I don't think
Mike Conley was playing. You know,

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Donovan had like nothing, nothing in
his legs. And you know, they

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00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,359
were in the fourth quarter for like
eight minutes. The Jazzes was like here,

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00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,880
Jordan's you go ahead, you take
this possession, and you know,

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00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,920
and Clarkson created shot after shot and
in basket after basket and they ended up

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00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:45,839
winning that game. And you know
that that's that's stuff that Jordan did for

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00:25:45,839 --> 00:25:49,920
for the Jazz a lot last year. So you know, I mean,

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I don't think you know, I
mean, I don't expect him to have

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00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:57,960
you know that that was kind of
a career year. I don't know if

325
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:04,039
you can get back to that level. But I mean the impact that he's

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00:26:04,079 --> 00:26:10,920
had for for the Jazz in his
two years with the team, I mean,

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00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,079
it's it's it's it's been pretty notable. Yeah, I think the idea

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00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:17,720
of Jordan Clarkson, even when the
shots aren't always going in, at least

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00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,519
it does. I mean, he
plays in a way where defenses are almost

330
00:26:19,559 --> 00:26:23,160
always going to react, which helps
them. But there's definitely a noticeable difference

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00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,319
if his jumper is not falling.
He's still like this first half or half

332
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:33,200
plus the last season though he was
just absolutely molten this This question feels pointless

333
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,160
to ask for most contenders, but
I was going over some Jared Butler film

334
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,480
the other day. Is he someone
that could actually crack like the top ten

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00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:47,000
players like in the rotation on this
team or is this is that very much

336
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:52,480
a non starter? I think he's
number ten or I think he has a

337
00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:56,680
chance to be number ten. I
mean, so you know you're starting five.

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00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:03,279
You have Donovan Mitchell, you have
you have Mike Conley, you have

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00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:10,400
Royce O'Neil Boyan, Bakdanovich and Rudy
Gobert. You know, join Clarkson and

340
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,359
and Joe Ingles are six and seven. Rudy Gay is number eight, Hassan

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00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:22,680
Whiteside is number nine. So number
ten and number eleven right now, so

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00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,559
you have so for number ten,
you have you know, Jared Butler,

343
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:33,200
me Aoni, Elijah Hughes and and
Eric Pascal all kind of voyling for that

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00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:41,200
number ten spot. And Jared Butler's
you know, pretty obviously pretty obviously been

345
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:48,039
been the best of those guys,
you know. So I mean I would

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00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,920
I would think that he has it, has a shot to be number ten,

347
00:27:53,759 --> 00:27:57,039
you know. But you know the
caveat is this. You know,

348
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:02,359
Quinn Snyder goes nine. If you're
number ten, you're still not playing every

349
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:08,960
night. You're playing with one of
the nine is not there. So the

350
00:28:10,039 --> 00:28:17,920
question that I have is this,
if Rudy Gay misses time in the regular

351
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,480
season with the off season surgery on
his heel, who's number ten? Because

352
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:30,160
if if if Mike Conley or Donovan
Mitchell, or Jordan Clarkson or even Joe

353
00:28:30,279 --> 00:28:34,960
Ingles, if if one of those
four misses a game, then I'm going

354
00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:38,319
to guess that that Jared Butler is
the guy that steps in for one of

355
00:28:38,319 --> 00:28:42,359
those guys. But if Rudy Gay
misses a game, and that's a true

356
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:51,920
front court guy, then do you
do you go small and put Jared Butler

357
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:59,160
and as your number ten guy?
Or do you do you give Elijah Hughes

358
00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:04,759
or Eric pass gal the first crack
to take Rudy Gay's minutes. And I

359
00:29:04,759 --> 00:29:10,480
think that's if Rudy Gay misses time
at the beginning of the regular season.

360
00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:14,480
I think that's a fascinating question that's
going to be answered for me. That

361
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,880
was my actual next question was between
looking at Ony, Eric Pash Gallen,

362
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,960
and Elijah Hughes, which one do
you think would have the best chance of

363
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:29,160
making an actual impact on this team
this season. I'm still gonna say Eric

364
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:37,279
Costcal because he's capable of playing small
ball five and I think that they're going

365
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:44,079
to use him as such. You
know. I think the issue for him

366
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,119
is he's got to start making shots. I think that outside of making shots,

367
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,480
I think he's played relatively well.
I think he's really good off the

368
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:59,599
dribble for a big guy. I
think that that you know, he can

369
00:29:59,599 --> 00:30:03,640
make, you know, quick decisions
off the dribble. I think he can

370
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,960
pass the ball when he attacks close
out, saying things like that. I

371
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,799
think that as a pick and popper
he does the right things. He's just

372
00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:15,920
got storming shots and he's only made
like one or two shots during during during

373
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,920
the preseason so far, and He's
had a lot of open threes, and

374
00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:22,279
you know, if you're gonna play
for a point, you gotta you gotta

375
00:30:22,319 --> 00:30:26,799
make open shots. So, you
know, I think that that's that's what

376
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:33,079
he's got a show in the next
few preseason games. I had thought,

377
00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:37,119
like, just before seeing anything in
the preseason or looking at what the rotation

378
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,200
was, I thought maybe it would
be only just because of you know,

379
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,279
he's six five as the six eleven
wings man. But he doesn't even seem

380
00:30:42,319 --> 00:30:45,839
like he's been like a huge staple
in their preseason. Is that just something

381
00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:48,000
they're out on. Has he been
dealing with an injury or something that I'm

382
00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:52,319
just not not aware of, or
you know, what is the story there?

383
00:30:52,519 --> 00:30:59,039
Yeah, I think that that he's
been you know, I think that

384
00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:06,200
the Jazz has been taking a pretty
long look at Elijah Hughes, and I

385
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:11,720
think that he's just played well in
the preseason, especially making shots. You

386
00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:18,079
know, now with only I can
never count him out because he has a

387
00:31:18,119 --> 00:31:26,119
specific he has a specific skill that
helps this team, which is his his

388
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:30,759
ability to defend on the perimeter.
But he's another guy that's got to start

389
00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:36,319
making shots. And you know,
one thing we know about gwinn snot.

390
00:31:36,359 --> 00:31:41,480
I mean he you know, he
values shot making, so I think that

391
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:45,640
that that's something that's got to happen
as well for me. But I do

392
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,400
think the Jazz really like himself.
It will be interesting to see what happens

393
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,440
there as well. Well, you
warmed my heart by making it seem like

394
00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:56,799
Jared Butler has a chance to crack
the top ten of the rotation. So

395
00:31:56,839 --> 00:32:00,000
I'm going to be in a good
mood for at least the next thirty six

396
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,599
hours because oh well, I mean
that that's that's not lip service. The

397
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:08,559
Jazz really like Jarrebla. I I
still can't believe in, Yeah, they

398
00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:15,799
really like Jarrebella and the stuff that
he's shown in the preseason, I got

399
00:32:15,799 --> 00:32:21,519
it like there. There have been
multiple times during both preseason games and I've

400
00:32:21,559 --> 00:32:24,440
had to say, you know what, it's just preseason. We don't know

401
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,319
if this is going to translate to
the regular season. But there are things

402
00:32:29,359 --> 00:32:32,400
that he does. There are things
that I've seen in the preseason and that

403
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:37,039
he's done off the dribble that the
only two guys on that team that can

404
00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:44,559
do that off the dribble with Mike
Conley and Donovan Mitchell and yeah, so

405
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,039
yeah, I know it's preseason,
but his control over the game with you

406
00:32:47,079 --> 00:32:50,279
know, some of those moments with
the ball in his hands, and he

407
00:32:50,319 --> 00:32:54,160
had that huge game against against Dallas. That's just man, that's just like

408
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,000
that. It just doesn't look like
rookie level stuff. And it's even even

409
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,480
tho it's preseason, and I know
it doesn't silly matter like what his draft

410
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,920
position was like that is distill the
number forty pick. I'm still just floored

411
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,079
that. And I know the reasons
why he fell that far, I know

412
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,640
the health concerns people had. I'm
still just that could end up being just

413
00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:15,759
like a phenomenal steal for Utah.
We fast forward a few years down the

414
00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:20,440
line, not even looking at this
season specifically. So he made a move

415
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:24,240
in isolation against Reggie Bullock, who
is a good defender. But that's what

416
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:29,119
that's what makes it so silly.
He made a move against Reggie Bullock in

417
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,759
isolation where you know he didn't would
would a crossover, backed up, did

418
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:42,119
him with another crossover, and then
hit him with a step back to where

419
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,799
the separation that he gained. He
was above the break, he was above

420
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:52,240
the yark on the break and Reggie
Bullock was basically at the file line.

421
00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:57,119
So that's that's like five you know
how many feet of separation? Is that?

422
00:33:57,319 --> 00:34:00,359
Like five or six feet? I
mean, that's kind of insane for

423
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,480
an NBA player to be able to
do to another NBA player. Yes,

424
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:07,079
I remember the shot you're talking about. He like his step back. I

425
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,400
felt like he traveled six feet when
he was gathering towards behind the three point

426
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,760
line. He also, I just
I don't watch enough of college basketball to

427
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,639
maybe I've known this, but he
seems like he just has a little like

428
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,519
you know, he had a floater. I think it was like in the

429
00:34:17,519 --> 00:34:22,840
fourth quarter of that game where it
was just like showcasing absolute control over how

430
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,039
to navigate the defense and just just
have that little push shot in there.

431
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:29,840
He's more of an I guess in
every level score than I thought that he

432
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:36,119
actually was coming in. Yeah,
he's he's a three level guy. He's

433
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:40,119
got float in the lane, and
he you know, he can finish at

434
00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:45,840
the basket, and you know,
obviously he's proficient from above the art,

435
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:51,880
so and he's just really really good
off the dribble. He's just really good

436
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,840
off the bounce and he's a really
good pick and role player. You know.

437
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,679
So, what are the questions about
Jarre Butler? Right, we question

438
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:07,960
the health, that's an obvious question, but you know, the other the

439
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,320
other question is, Okay, you
know, he's not overly big, He's

440
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,079
not you know, he's not overly
athletic. But the skill level that he

441
00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:22,960
has is so high that you know, the skill level is so high that

442
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,079
that you know, some of that
stuff doesn't matter. And his ability to

443
00:35:25,159 --> 00:35:30,440
run pick and roll is just it's
just tremendous. So and the thing about

444
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:35,079
it is he's he's versatile offensively in
terms of his style of play. So

445
00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:39,400
he can play with the ball in
his hands and he can play without the

446
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,719
ball in his hands. So that
means a lot because that means he can

447
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,440
play with Donovan Mitchell, or he
can play with Mike Conley, or he

448
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:52,320
can play with Angles, or he
can play with Clarkson. You know,

449
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,400
he doesn't have there's not a lineup
that he has to be out there with

450
00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:00,000
just because of the scot style of
play. And I don't think people realize

451
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:05,159
how difficult that is. You know, there's there are guys who, you

452
00:36:05,199 --> 00:36:07,960
know, if they don't have the
ball in their hands, they're they're just

453
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:12,639
not going to be effective at all. And and he's affective with or without

454
00:36:12,679 --> 00:36:17,679
the ball in his hand. So
that's that's something that that really helps him.

455
00:36:17,679 --> 00:36:22,559
Looking at this roster in some whether
it's a position like an archetype of

456
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:27,239
a of a player or whatever,
what do you view as Utah's biggest weakness

457
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:34,079
setting into this year. I still
don't think they have the definitive guy who

458
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,239
you know, could just go out, you know, go out there.

459
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:42,760
I think they need one more wing
defender right for sure. I really like

460
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,239
Royce O'Neil. I think he's a
tremendous defender below the fire line. I

461
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:54,440
think he's the level drops off once
he gets above the fire line. Rudy

462
00:36:54,519 --> 00:37:00,400
Gay's defensive numbers last year were really
good. But you know, can you

463
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:07,199
say, okay, you know,
soak up, you know, ten to

464
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,480
twelve possessions in a row on Kawhi
Leonard or or Paul George or whatever.

465
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:15,199
Can he do that, you know
at a playoff level? I don't know,

466
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:22,280
you know, so I think that
if you are justin Zanek, I

467
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:28,320
think that the one thing that that
you might want to do is still try

468
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,360
to uh, figure out if you
can get a wing defender at some point

469
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:38,760
over the course of the year,
you know, even I mean look at

470
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:44,920
Phoenix right like you know they they
know I mean one number one. You

471
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:50,360
know Michael Bridges is I mean,
he's he's amazing. Yes, he's amazing.

472
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,039
Uh. And Cam Johnson is pretty
darn good himself. Yeah. But

473
00:37:55,679 --> 00:38:00,360
if they need like, you know, three or four possessions, or if

474
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,079
they needed three or four possessions last
year, what did they do? They

475
00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:07,760
look down Adventure story, Craig go
in there, give us three for three

476
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,800
or four possessions on this guy.
And I don't think the Jazz have that

477
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:15,760
guy right now, you know.
So I'm sorry, go ahead, I

478
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,960
didn't mean to do go ahead,
I'm listening. I was just gonna say

479
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,679
the thing with Rudy Gay too,
where he was kind of fine defensively,

480
00:38:21,679 --> 00:38:24,000
He's like he was more of a
like you call him a perimeter bid.

481
00:38:24,119 --> 00:38:27,440
Like that's not someone that san Antonio
was just like, hey, go out

482
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,320
and defend wings at the age of
you know, thirty four thirty five,

483
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:37,119
right. You mentioned Royce O'Neil by
the way really quickly, and this is

484
00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:40,239
something that I had been doing like
a while ago over the offseason that you

485
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,920
know, it floored me when you
talk about it, but it makes sense

486
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,079
just contest wizing how important he is
or how much Utah relies on him.

487
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,440
There were four hundred and four players
who logged a least two hundred and fifty

488
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,119
minutes last year. The Ball Index
does this thing where they measure how much

489
00:38:54,159 --> 00:39:00,440
time they spent on the highest usage
player Defensively, Royce O'Neill led the league

490
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,880
in the amount of defensive possessions he
spent guarding the highest usages player on the

491
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,880
other team among those four hundred and
four players. Like that's you know,

492
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,719
I think he's great, but like
you just need, like you need to

493
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:17,119
diversify that perimeter defense somehow beyond having
a Joe Ingles there or just staying the

494
00:39:17,199 --> 00:39:21,679
course with you know sometimes just I
mean, like you you're looking at that

495
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,159
if Donovan Mitchell improves, maybe that
helps. But you can't really expect my

496
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,599
comedy to get better, Joe Ingles
to get better. Boyamodanovich has like these

497
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,119
nights where he looks really good one
on, but he's just never going to

498
00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:37,559
be that guy. So that's basically
just my Royce O'Neill appreciation rant. Yeah,

499
00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:40,880
you know, so full disclosure.
I've voted. I've voted Royce O'Neil's

500
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,960
second team All Defense last year.
That's not egregious at all. I think

501
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,559
that's totally fine. I think I
was one of four who gave him a

502
00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:57,320
vote. But you know, like
he completely like he completely deserved it,

503
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,239
just deserved it just because I mean
it was just like, Okay, we

504
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:06,039
need okay, we're playing Kauai.
We need you to go get Kauhai.

505
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:12,199
Tomorrow night we got we got Lebron, so go get Lebron. On Tuesday

506
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,159
night, we got Yannis, so
have fun with that. Oh by the

507
00:40:16,199 --> 00:40:22,440
way, this road trip continues.
We got Kevin Durant and so yeah,

508
00:40:22,519 --> 00:40:25,280
go ahead, go ahead, good
luck with that. We all got your

509
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:30,480
back. We're good, We're good. So, I mean, you know,

510
00:40:30,599 --> 00:40:35,719
I thought that he was. I
thought he was terrific. You know,

511
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,360
credit the Clippers for being able to
to figure out how to you know,

512
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:45,079
get those guys out in space and
and and and and and do what

513
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:52,239
they did. But you know,
Royce throughout the entire season, I mean,

514
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:58,239
he was he was pretty very important
to to with the Jazz where we're

515
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,320
able to do. And I think
that he'll be really important this year as

516
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:07,519
well. And I will say this, I think that this is I think

517
00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:15,159
that this is somewhere where I think
that that Eric Pascal can help. And

518
00:41:15,199 --> 00:41:22,000
what I mean is this, I
think Royce and in large part last year

519
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:30,559
was was Utah's toughest player. And
and you know, Eric Pascal is a

520
00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:34,800
tough guy, and I think really
really Gay is a tough guy as well.

521
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,199
And you know Donovan is a tough
guy. But you can't have your

522
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:43,760
best player or one of your two
best players be the tough guy because they

523
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:50,519
can't be the ones taking the technical
files. So I think there, I

524
00:41:50,639 --> 00:41:57,039
think that that the Eric Pascal can
help in that in that vein. Yeah,

525
00:41:57,079 --> 00:42:00,159
I mean, look, that's a
great point, and I just I

526
00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:02,800
would I don't think there's any issue
with I think Royce, O'Neills and all

527
00:42:04,119 --> 00:42:06,440
defense caliber defender, so I would
agree with you there. I mean,

528
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,000
like, look, the dude was
it was he is six four and like

529
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,000
they're throwing him up against monster wings
or like you know, you're seeing reps

530
00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:15,760
against actual fours. Is just incredible. This question, I don't mean to

531
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,480
make it so simple but I think
when you just look at the Jazz you

532
00:42:20,519 --> 00:42:24,599
already mentioned their top seven guys are
just they should be the same from last

533
00:42:24,639 --> 00:42:28,559
year. And so you make those
slighter tweaks towards the middle of the back

534
00:42:28,679 --> 00:42:31,800
end of the rotation with a Rudy
Gaia Hassan Whiteside is Eric kashcal play.

535
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:37,320
What's the actual path to this team
being better because we've talked a lot about

536
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,800
regression from last season, but being
better than last season when you look at

537
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,880
all they did, especially in the
regular season, having the you know,

538
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,519
having the best record and all that, what is the pathway to them being

539
00:42:46,679 --> 00:42:52,119
even better than that? So the
pathway to being better is being a better

540
00:42:52,119 --> 00:42:59,920
playoff teams. That's the pathway.
So this team could theoretically be a three

541
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:05,760
seed will be a better team if
they become a better playoff team. So

542
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:16,440
the pathway for that to me is
Rudy Gay and and and Donovan Mitchell because

543
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:22,559
I think Donov Mitchell has another level
that he can hit. You know,

544
00:43:22,599 --> 00:43:27,599
I think he has another clear level
that he can hit. And the second

545
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,679
the second thing is, you know, I think that Rudy Gay, if

546
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:37,159
this signing goes the way to Jazz
or hoping it goes, he adds stuff

547
00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:42,800
to this team that I didn't have. Like, you know, I don't

548
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,239
think that there was a front court
guy that the Jazz could come down and

549
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:52,679
say, go get me a bucket
in the in a in a playoff setting,

550
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,400
and I think Rudy Rudy Gay can
do that. I don't think that

551
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:05,679
there was a guy that you know
that you could say, Okay, we

552
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,079
need we need you to guard the
four, or we need to go ahead

553
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:13,760
and guard to five, or we
need you to spend one or two possessions

554
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:19,119
at the three. And I think
Rudy Gay could could possibly do that.

555
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:28,840
I think that by the end,
by the end of Game six last year

556
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:35,159
against the Clippers, you know,
I think that the Jazz were down to

557
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,719
seven guys that that Points Snyder trusted, and you know, for all of

558
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:46,760
the depth that we talked about last
year with with you know the Jazz,

559
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:52,039
you know, by the end of
the playoff run, they were down to

560
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:57,480
seven guys that Quinn set trusted to
put it put out there on the floor.

561
00:44:58,159 --> 00:45:01,519
And I think Rudy Gay gives you
you at very mentally gives you eight

562
00:45:01,559 --> 00:45:10,800
guys, which is more conducive to
to being a better playoff team. And

563
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:17,519
I also think Jared Butler makes them
better because I love it. You were

564
00:45:17,559 --> 00:45:23,039
ready for this. Jared Butler makes
them makes you better because I think you

565
00:45:23,039 --> 00:45:30,920
you you have a fourth guy in
the backcourt that that's that's an NBA player,

566
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,840
you know, And I think last
year there were there were three.

567
00:45:36,639 --> 00:45:42,599
So if if Mike Conley missed the
game last year, Joe Ingles was playing

568
00:45:42,639 --> 00:45:49,000
point guard, and that was that
proved to be really detrimental because by the

569
00:45:49,159 --> 00:45:52,559
end, by by the end,
by the time the playoffs started, Joe

570
00:45:52,679 --> 00:45:59,119
Ingles was cut. He was exhausted. So you know, there are two

571
00:45:59,119 --> 00:46:00,639
things I would do with Joe Ingles
if I were the Jazz this year.

572
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:06,199
Number one, I would I would
I would find some time to wrest them

573
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,280
during the regular season. And number
two, I would not give him any

574
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:14,159
point guard minutes, like none,
even even even though I know that Joe

575
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:19,719
Ingles can can play point guard and
can handle the point. Nah, give

576
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,920
those men. If if Mike Conley
missus time, give those minutes to Jared

577
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:27,239
Butler. If Donovan Mitchell missus time, give those minutes to Jared Butler.

578
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,840
If Jordan Clarks and missus time give
those minutes to Jared Butler. You know,

579
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:42,400
so I think that that that those
two those two theoretically, we don't

580
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,480
know how it's going to look during
the regular season, but theoretically that makes

581
00:46:45,519 --> 00:46:52,199
the Jazz a deeper team. And
then, you know, then the Jazz

582
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:57,360
have to work on number one being
a better playoff team and number two being

583
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:01,440
a more matchup proof playoff team.
This is they're probably two ways to look

584
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,119
at it, and you mentioned one
where you're saying, if you're the Jazz,

585
00:47:05,159 --> 00:47:06,800
like the goal is still to figure
out a way to go out and

586
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,119
get another wing. I think you
could also frame this question as this team

587
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:14,400
is in the second secutive year slated
to pay the luxury tax at least,

588
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,840
and their bill is not insubstantial at
the moment, you know, compared to

589
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:21,239
how much they went over last year. We're talking like their tax payment's going

590
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,119
to be double digits this year as
of right now, who do you think,

591
00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:25,400
just based off what the Jazz need
or what you think could happen this

592
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,199
season, who on this roster right
now would you bill as the player most

593
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:37,159
likely to be traded before the deadline. I'd never like to try to go

594
00:47:37,199 --> 00:47:45,320
down that road because I don't know
if if if if saying that is is

595
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:55,480
fair to the player. Okay,
but here's the thing, right like if

596
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,960
here's the thing, and this is
what I know of of of Justine's annek

597
00:48:05,559 --> 00:48:09,360
he the man is not afraid to
make a move. Two years ago,

598
00:48:10,119 --> 00:48:17,079
when I mean, you know,
I give you a story. I was

599
00:48:17,199 --> 00:48:22,599
interviewing Jeff Green when he was waived
two years ago in Miami, like the

600
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:29,519
jazz It jest, the jazz It
just acquired Jordan Clarkson. They address traded

601
00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:38,039
Dante Exell for Jordan Clarkson in Miami, and you know, I was,

602
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:40,559
you know, I went up to
Jeff and I said, hey, you

603
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:45,559
played with Jeff you know in Cleveland. You know, can I just talk

604
00:48:45,639 --> 00:48:51,599
to you about, you know what, what what Jordan brings to the team.

605
00:48:51,679 --> 00:48:53,559
And he gives me, you know, like three or four long thoughtful

606
00:48:53,599 --> 00:48:59,360
answers. And then I leave the
locker room and I get a text from

607
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,239
a source. They said, yo, you might want to check this out.

608
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:07,000
I'm here and the Jeff Green got
waived. I was like the game

609
00:49:07,079 --> 00:49:13,400
just ended. And the source was
like, yeah, I know, it's

610
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:20,239
cold world, and so I made
a phone call and I confirmed it,

611
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:27,960
and you know, in me and
my colleague we reported the story, and

612
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:30,960
I remember players coming out of the
locker room like what in the world just

613
00:49:31,079 --> 00:49:37,800
happened? And you know, and
and and you know, I think that

614
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:42,719
that's the one thing that we know. I think that's the one thing that

615
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,880
we really know about Justine's an it
like he's if if if there's a move

616
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:52,320
to be made, he's going to
be aggressive and trying to make that move

617
00:49:52,639 --> 00:49:58,239
because that's that's just that's just how
he's wired as a jam. So you

618
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,840
know, that's the long story.
I mean, so it's a long winded

619
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:12,039
way of saying that if if if
Justin Zanneck feels that there's that there's a

620
00:50:12,039 --> 00:50:16,400
guy that can help this team with
a specific skill set that count this team,

621
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:21,320
and he feels that somebody's got to
go, then then somebody's gonna go.

622
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:28,519
So it's I guess that that's that's
the answer that I have, or

623
00:50:28,599 --> 00:50:31,079
the best answer that I have.
And so do you do you think Justin

624
00:50:31,199 --> 00:50:36,079
Zanek and just given how far they
are into the tax I think they're like

625
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,239
eighteen million over or something as of
right now, like it's a wild it's

626
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:42,599
a wild number. Do they have
the license to stay that far over the

627
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:47,119
tax this season? Yeah, they're
fine. I think they're fine for this

628
00:50:47,199 --> 00:50:53,440
year. I think next summer is
when you know, I think you're gonna

629
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:58,639
see some decisions may have made,
especially if this team goes out in the

630
00:50:58,679 --> 00:51:01,400
second round, Like it's if this
team goes out in the second round doesn't

631
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:07,639
make a strong playoff push, I
think that you're going to see a significantly

632
00:51:07,679 --> 00:51:12,440
different roster next year. That would
make a lot of sense, especially coming

633
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,239
back to the urgency conversation. We
had just a couple of quick ones before

634
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:19,119
I get you out of here.
I think this is an easy answer because

635
00:51:19,119 --> 00:51:22,400
there's really only two options. Even
though you could argue it's matchup dependent.

636
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,000
What's going to be there? Go
to crunch time lineup? Is it just

637
00:51:25,039 --> 00:51:30,159
a projected starting five? Do we
see maybe Joe Ingles in there instead of

638
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:31,840
you know, Boyan Bogdanovitch at one
point, what do you think it's just

639
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,360
gonna end up being there? There? Go to this season, down the

640
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:43,559
stretches of close games. I think
that actually, I think that's a better

641
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:46,519
question than you think it is.
Okay, I like it when I don't

642
00:51:46,519 --> 00:51:55,880
ask terrible questions. So Collie,
Mitchell, and Gobert are obvious. Those

643
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:02,280
are your obvious three. And then
you know, and I think I think

644
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:09,920
Royce belongs. Royce belongs with that
because you know, he's obvious, the

645
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:16,960
guy that that that that defends that's
going to defend other crunch time scores.

646
00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:22,679
So I think those four are most
obvious. And then you know, then

647
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:28,000
I think that fifth spot can be
rotated. I think it can be Boyan

648
00:52:28,079 --> 00:52:30,360
Bogdanovitch one night or a couple of
nights. So I think it could be

649
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,920
Rudy Gay a couple of nights.
I think it could be Joe Ingles a

650
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:40,920
couple of nights. You know.
So I think that those those are those

651
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:45,239
are pretty much the the I think
there are going to be four constants,

652
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:49,800
and I think that there are going
to be the other guys that you know,

653
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,639
that fifth spot can kind of rotate
a little bit. If you're Quinn

654
00:52:52,639 --> 00:52:58,960
Snyder, is there like a weird, offbeat, unconventional lineup that you would

655
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,159
try out just to see what would
happen with that group of five guys.

656
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:15,239
I would love to see. I
think it would be fun to see Jared

657
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:27,639
Butler, Mike Conley, Donovan Mitchell, Joe Ingles and Rudy Gay. Oh

658
00:53:27,679 --> 00:53:30,480
that would be fun. That would
be a fun lineup, not only to

659
00:53:30,599 --> 00:53:36,960
see because if you have three guys
that are just that good off the dribble

660
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:42,199
and that good at creating shots,
but I'd love to see if those guys

661
00:53:42,199 --> 00:53:47,360
can actually stop anybody. Yeah,
but yeah, I love this. I'd

662
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:51,280
love to see that line up.
The one I have penciled in is also

663
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,719
that three guard structure with Conley,
Jared Butler and Dona Mitchell. I have

664
00:53:55,119 --> 00:53:59,320
you know, it's it's sort of
a less of an odd ball cap off

665
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,519
with Roycealneil and Rudy Gobert in there, because I was thinking, we're like

666
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:05,400
going too far out there with that
three guard lineup, and like how would

667
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,679
this defense? Let me just take
the jazz as two best defenders and throw

668
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:12,079
them next to two those three.
But I just in general, I would

669
00:54:12,119 --> 00:54:15,519
love to see the three guards play
together and what that looks like. Well,

670
00:54:15,559 --> 00:54:19,280
see, and that's the question,
right, like, if if Rudy

671
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:23,880
Gay misses some some regular season time, do you throw those three guards together?

672
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:30,719
You would? I would absolutely do
it. But Queennsider is a lot

673
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,360
smarter than I am, So who
knows the actual answer to that question?

674
00:54:34,199 --> 00:54:37,760
Right, that's the that's the thing. So, I mean, especially because

675
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:39,719
they're so like size, like they're
all, you know, six one or

676
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:44,280
six two. Yeah, you know, so you're yeah, so you're gonna

677
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:50,800
have somebody guarding you know, a
six seven guy. But you know,

678
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:52,960
the gist of the gist of that
is they got to guard them on the

679
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:59,400
other end, and that could be
that could be problematic. Utah is over

680
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,599
under as we accord this for the
season as fifty three point five wins,

681
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:07,079
would you predict them to hit the
over? The under on that? I

682
00:55:07,159 --> 00:55:10,599
think they go over. I think
this is a really good basketball team,

683
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:19,559
like great even you know, you
know, I happen to think that this

684
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:22,519
team would go fifty one and thirty
one if they have a bunch of injury

685
00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:27,320
issues and they don't play well.
So you know, if if they have

686
00:55:28,519 --> 00:55:34,039
you know, a normal season,
you know, I think they're they're gonna

687
00:55:34,039 --> 00:55:37,159
win a lot of games. So
I'm gonna take the over on that.

688
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,679
I think I would agree with you
there. And it also feels like,

689
00:55:40,039 --> 00:55:44,119
as you know, as I think
difficult as it is to sort of come

690
00:55:44,199 --> 00:55:46,719
up with a hierarchy in the West. Maybe this is too ambitious, but

691
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:51,320
when you look at Jamal Murray's injury
in Denver, Kawai in Los Angeles,

692
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:55,440
some uncertainty elsewhere, it feels like
Utah's floor might be like third in the

693
00:55:55,440 --> 00:56:00,079
West this regular season. Is that
too high for their floor? I think

694
00:56:00,159 --> 00:56:07,559
that that that Phoenix, Utah,
and the Lakers, ye are are are

695
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:12,639
in the top tier in the West. I don't know what ordered those three

696
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,840
finished, but I think that,
like particularly the Jazz and Phoenix, I

697
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:21,000
think both of those I think they
I think both of those teams are really

698
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:23,480
really good. Like I think the
Jazz are really good. I think the

699
00:56:23,519 --> 00:56:28,239
Phoenix is going to be really good. I think the Lakers are going to

700
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:34,159
be a team that, you know, might not be really good at first,

701
00:56:34,199 --> 00:56:38,719
but by the time the playoffs start, they're really good, you know.

702
00:56:39,519 --> 00:56:45,960
I mean, Jamal Murray being out
until you know, March kind of

703
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,760
puts them on a different tier.
Kawhi being out puts the Clippers on a

704
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:54,119
different tier. You know. I
don't think that as good as Lucas.

705
00:56:54,920 --> 00:57:00,199
You know, I probably have Dallas
fourth at this point. I probably have

706
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:07,559
Golden State somewhere in between fifty six
or seven, you know. But but

707
00:57:07,079 --> 00:57:12,039
those three for me stand out.
Dallas is the one that looks like they

708
00:57:12,119 --> 00:57:15,280
might be I would pick them like
they could be a really good regular season

709
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,400
team with the way they're built.
I just I don't trust anything that Jason

710
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:21,599
Kidd has said during training camp in
the preseason. If I'm a mass stand

711
00:57:21,639 --> 00:57:24,719
would have me fucking scared. Actually, pardon my French there some of the

712
00:57:24,719 --> 00:57:30,400
stuff that Kidd said. He only
wants to put up fifteen threes again,

713
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,119
yeah, or wants Christops person I
gets to dribble into more mid range jumpers

714
00:57:34,119 --> 00:57:36,280
and getting the postmar No, that
scares If I'm a Mask fan, that

715
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:39,679
scares the hell out of me.
Tony. Is there anything about this team

716
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:43,599
or anyone on this team I did
not ask you about that you think needs

717
00:57:43,599 --> 00:57:50,360
to be discussed before I release you. No. I think we've we've we

718
00:57:50,559 --> 00:57:53,440
we've covered I think we've had a
really good conversation. This is this is

719
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:57,920
dope. I love it well.
You heard it here first Jared Butler Rookie

720
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,239
of the Year pick. Both Tony
and I are predicting it at this point.

721
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:07,400
I didn't say anything about aggregators.
Alert Tony Butler of the Year.

722
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:15,960
You know, I knew. I
knew your carload and your caffeine would take

723
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:20,360
over at some point. It's kicking. Took his kicking in and I have

724
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:22,519
had lots of I had some ice
cream before this podcast. I think that's

725
00:58:22,519 --> 00:58:25,840
reaching my veins as well. I
knew, I knew that this would kick

726
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:31,800
in. I just said that Jared
Butler might listen aggregators. I predict Jared

727
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:37,280
Butler to be the tenth man for
the Youth, a top ten player in

728
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:38,960
the NBA. Yes, that's what
I heard too, Tony. You're able

729
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:43,760
to tell our listeners where they can
find you and the awesome work that you

730
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:49,639
do. You can find me at
the Athletic and you can find me a

731
00:58:49,719 --> 00:58:53,000
T. Jones on the NBA on
Twitter, and you can find me a

732
00:58:53,039 --> 00:58:59,480
T. Jones Athletic on Instagram.
Who you're on Instagram? Yes, but

733
00:58:59,559 --> 00:59:01,559
I pulled a lot of pictures of
my kids on Instagram and a lot of

734
00:59:01,559 --> 00:59:07,320
pictures of me and a gym,
so you know. But I also post

735
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,280
like videos and jazz stuff. So
if you actually like me as a person,

736
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:15,519
you could follow me on Instagram,
I'll follow you exclusively for the gym

737
00:59:15,559 --> 00:59:20,239
picks. That's what I'm gonna follow
you for. I will say you're a

738
00:59:20,239 --> 00:59:23,159
great follower on Twitter because you interact
with your with your followers and you also

739
00:59:23,719 --> 00:59:28,079
I don't remember what exactly it was, but I read it. I sent

740
00:59:28,159 --> 00:59:30,760
it to some of my friends.
The quote tree you had this year where

741
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:32,639
someone was saying to you like,
well, why aren't they testing for like

742
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:37,199
HIV and herpies at the games?
And you're you quoted it with are you

743
00:59:37,199 --> 00:59:42,280
trying to smash at a basketball game? And I just couldn't stop laughing when

744
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,320
I saw that. I sent it
to so many people. I was giggling

745
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:49,760
like I was in elementary school.
I mean, well that was that was

746
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,960
where my mind went, Like he
asked me why they're not texting for sexual

747
00:59:54,159 --> 01:00:00,280
sexually transmitted diseases at the ball game? And I was I was confused used

748
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:04,159
immediately, like wait a minute,
are we trying to like, you know,

749
01:00:04,199 --> 01:00:07,119
are we trying to watch basketball games? Are we trying to make babs

750
01:00:07,239 --> 01:00:10,519
like pick one of the pick a
lane? So I didn't think you could

751
01:00:10,559 --> 01:00:14,880
do both for the basketball games.
So I mean, for me, you

752
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:16,679
know, me having fun at the
basketball game is when I go and get

753
01:00:16,679 --> 01:00:22,559
a diet coke and some skills a
half time. Okay, my man was

754
01:00:22,599 --> 01:00:24,039
on a totally different plane. He
was like, Yo, I mean we

755
01:00:24,159 --> 01:00:28,480
need to we need to test for
STDs and we need to do all this

756
01:00:28,519 --> 01:00:30,920
And I was like, waiting minute, what are you doing at half time

757
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:32,800
of this game? Yeah, it's
like does the NBA have like an only

758
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:37,039
fans league that I didn't know about
or something? But I mean, listen

759
01:00:37,079 --> 01:00:40,679
it those were violid questions at the
time. If that's not an endorsement of

760
01:00:40,679 --> 01:00:44,679
why to follow Tony on Twitter?
Thought, I don't know what else could

761
01:00:44,719 --> 01:00:45,400
be at this point. I mean, he does do great work at the

762
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:49,639
athletics. So just to reiterate at
T Jones on the NBA on Twitter,

763
01:00:49,679 --> 01:00:52,639
so exactly as it sounds, Tony, thank you for giving me an hour

764
01:00:52,679 --> 01:00:54,559
of your time on this Sunday night. I really appreciate it. And I

765
01:00:54,559 --> 01:00:58,119
think, as you know, by
now giving the amount of times that I

766
01:00:58,159 --> 01:01:00,320
will DM you too, I'm going
to pester you were getting the future.

767
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:06,880
Hey, listen, it is all
good, bro, and I appreciate you

768
01:01:07,079 --> 01:01:13,119
for having me on and listen,
everybody needs to know how flexible Dan was

769
01:01:13,239 --> 01:01:17,920
with me because I ran into some
some some father issues at a previous time

770
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:23,920
that we were that we were supposed
to record, and he really, you

771
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:28,000
know, he was just like,
no, no problem, you know,

772
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,039
YadA YadA YadA, were good.
And I just want to let you know

773
01:01:31,079 --> 01:01:36,840
how how appreciative I was for you
being really understanding with that. I am

774
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:38,880
blushing red right now. You're too
kind. I think the least I could

775
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,000
do is be flexible when you give
me this much of your time, and

776
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,880
as someone who does not have the
responsibility of children, so kid's family definitely

777
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:51,440
more important than this rinky dink operation
over at Hardwood Knox. Thank you so

778
01:01:51,519 --> 01:01:53,400
much again, No, Tony,
this was great. Thank you so much.

779
01:01:53,400 --> 01:02:00,760
I appreciate it. Th