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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. I am your host,

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Alejandro Rojas, and I am here
with Martin. What the hell are you

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up to? Willis? That's me. Yeah, You've always got something going

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on this morning. You're like,
oh, I'm in an office, I'm

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here or there. Dude. It's
like you have all these secret it projects

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are something like you're you're are you
working for the government, or something like

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you are black projects? And uh
yes, that's why I shave my head.

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So really yeah, yeah, it's
all fell part of the gig.

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Uh huh wow, I thought so. Yeah. Yeah, but that's cool

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working on h let's see zero gravity
propulsion right now, it's going pretty good.

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What are you really working on?
Though? Antiques? How boring?

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Huh No, I think that's cool. I love antiques. Yeah, yeah,

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I'm cataloging away at an auction gig. Oh neat, So that's fun.

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That to me is exciting. I
don't know about everyone else, but

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uh, you know, I haven't
gotten a chance to watch in a while.

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I used to be addicted to Antiques
road Show, and then I got

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a girlfriend, And I think you're
doing better with a girlfriend. Yeah.

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Well, I so I love antiques. I think that's exciting what you're up

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to, Betty. Yeah, well
it is for me, but most people,

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like you know, don't want anything
to it's old stuff. But to

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me, there's a history and story
with everything, so I really like that.

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You know, who else has some
exciting things going on right now?

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Who? Chris Rutkowski really? Yeah, he's my guest for today and his

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group did a Canadian UFO survey that
they released last week. It was reviewing

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UFO sidings for twenty fifteen. And
boy has this report taken the media by

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steam by storm. Steam Steam is
cool too, but yes, steam can

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be explosive, right, But not
only the Canadian news, but the American

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news, Fox News, CNN.
It's all over the place about UFO sidings

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in Canada because of his report.
And luckily, even though he's in the

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middle of the media storm, he
was able to make some time and we

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were able to talk for a while. So I'm real happy about that.

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Wow, amazing. You know,
I've been actually trying to reach Chris for

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my show, so I'll let a
little time go by before I reach out

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again. Yeah, we don't have
our shows with the same guests, you

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know, right, I know,
I try to space it too, but

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yeah, he was able to fit
me in between a couple interviews. And

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he's got his job also, so
he's a busy fella. But yeah,

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so I'm really happy. I think
he felt like he owed me a little

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bit too, because he was a
speaker at the UFO Congress this year,

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right, which was really cool.
It's great to hang out with him there.

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And I didn't even get to talk
to him about it because I sat

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him next to Jacques Vallet, who
was a hero of his and we mentioned

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him a couple times in our interview, but I wanted to get more into

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that, but we just ran out
of time. As you know how that

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is when you get talking on these
interviews. Oh yeah, yep. So

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yeah, that's our guest for it
today. But before we do that,

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we've got UFOs in the news.
We always let you started off. What's

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your UFO news story you want to
start off with today, Martin, Well,

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I'm going back in time a bit, back to February again. Back

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in time's February seventeenth, nineteen ninety
one. This is a this is a

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move on report, but it's a
Netherlands UFO witness recounts military encounter. And

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this was a witness in the Netherlands
at Sultzenburg, and this is a move

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on case report that Roger Marsh has
posted. And this gentleman was outside with

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another cadet and he came to a
central parking lot at three am. He

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quotes that he saw a big circle
in the sky straight on top of us.

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It had no shape, but only
lights slowly rotating anti clockwise, and

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the light points itself did not rotate. The colors were in a liquid manner.

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Now I find that interesting because you
hear a lot of people talking about

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sort of a liquidy looking lights or
lights. The object was large, and

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the witness wondered exactly what it was, and he estimated it was thirty to

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fifty meters, which is up to
one hundred and fifty feet or so in

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diameter, and it was more or
less a circular shape. And then at

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first he thought it was a blimp, but then he didn't know it doesn't

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really make sense for that type of
shape to be a blimp. And it

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started rotate faster and faster, and
suddenly took off at a really incredible speed

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to the west, and a couple
of seconds we fell a short hard wind

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blowing which stayed on top of us
like a downwashed from a helicopter. Now,

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you don't often hear about that.
A lot of times you hear about

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these things taking off and everything.
You never hear about any sonic boom or

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anything like this. Anyway, I
just thought it was a great recounted sighting.

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Yeah, I love this one.
This is really interesting. He said

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he was terrified by it, And
I like this one statement he made too,

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where it moved off so quickly that
that kind of extreme acceleration would turn

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a human into liquid. Oh right, yes, he did say that later

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on, right, Yeah, and
yeah, that's always the one of the

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mysteries of this whole thing is how
the occupants, don't you know, get

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totally turned into jello. Yeah,
so great case. I think that one's

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really interesting too, that this guy
was so you know, freaked out by

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it that and that he's talking about
it years later and so vividly. But

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yeah, pretty interesting one. Thank
you for that, would buddy. Sure.

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I want to talk about an older
one too, but not as old.

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This is two thousand and four and
this is actually in the area where

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I used to live, sort of
in the suburbs of Denver. Yeah,

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Wheatridge. So in fact, I
went to Wheatridge High School, which is

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nearby this area. But this is
a police officer in twenty fourteen. I

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think I might have said two thousand
and four. I meant twenty fourteen,

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so just a couple of years ago. But it was June twenty fourteen.

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This police officers in Anderson Park at
about one am and he sees some multi

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colored lights through the trees. He
said there were five or six lights.

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He believed they were too red,
too blue, too green, and they

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were moving along behind the trees on
the other side of a softball field,

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and then he says they just turned
off all at the same time, so

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he felt that they were under intelligent
control. He thought maybe there were lights

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on an ATV, but he couldn't
hear anything. He went to the area

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and there were no tracks or any
And you do see in all the pictures

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and everything that there's a road,
but these lights are past that road,

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and then there's a river on the
other side of the road, so that's

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kind of odd that they were there. Anyway, he couldn't figure out what

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they were. He said that he
also saw in his headlights what looked like

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snow, but it wasn't snowing,
although it was cold a little chili that

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night. But this was in June, so even in Colorado it doesn't snow

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in June June nineteenth. It's actually
pretty warm during that period of time.

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He even saw some sort of frost
on the ground in the area. He

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then went back and there were some
security cameras in the area and checked those

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security cameras and sure enough, the
security cameras caught these objects on video as

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well, and so he provided that
video to move on. This is another

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mof on case that Roger marsh rode
about. And in the video you do

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see some lights. I mean,
it's not too different except they're moving steadily

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along. You would think the lights
when you look at the video are maybe

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on a bike or on a vehicle, but it is past the road.

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And you know, he did provide
these videos to move on. This is

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a move on case, another one
written up by Roger. However, the

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video is really small, so if
you can kind of blow it up,

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like by two hundred percent, and
you could see it better, and you

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see these lights beyond the trees.
So it's a really interesting case. I

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think it's interesting that a police officer
who's out in his car at night driving

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around all the time would think that
this was something odd. So I think

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it's a pretty interesting case. Now, remember some people have said, oh,

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this is kind of boring. I
don't see much, but that's because

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the video is so small. People
are kind of complaining. So you do

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have to even if you full screen, and it's small, so you have

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to kind of go into here,
go in there and like do the two

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hundred percent where you zoom into it. But yeah, kind of cool case

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it is. And I think it's
you know, I mean, of course

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he's an officer. He can get
surveillance tapes, and the fact that he

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went that far shows one more reason
to you know, kind of respect his

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research into it himself. You know. Yeah, so pretty cool. That's

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an interesting one. So people should
check that out. But before we're done,

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I want to talk about another one
that made some big news in the

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media. And I think this is
really fun. And did you see this

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an addition to billionaire Uri Millner's breakthrough
initiative where he's going to send a bunch

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of tiny satellites to Alpha Centauri,
I can't even imagine that they are even

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talking about you know, I mean
you hear about it would take up one

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hundred thousand years to get there,
you know, thirty seven thousand miles an

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hour, which we know. So
they're expecting some type of different drive or

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something. Yeah, so this is
cool. So it's not something new as

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far as the idea of how they're
going to do it, but it's exciting

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that they're actually going to do it. I mean, in Star Trek,

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they've had this idea before because it
is a you know, scientists have talked

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about it before. There's a solar
sale right or oh, this is a

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laser sale though, isn't it.
Well that's what I'm going to explain here.

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Spoiler God sakes. Yeah, so
this one, what I was about

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to say was, although you know, typically they're called solar sales, this

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one's a light sale. It's it's
using light from a different source other than

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the sun. And so what this
is is a light a big sale that

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you know, photons hit up on
it and that makes it move across the

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vacuum of space. As you mentioned, in this case, they're going to

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use lasers now in order to do
that. They have to have a big

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array of lasers here on the Earth
that shoot at these things to make them

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move. Now that's all exciting,
but in order for these to actually move,

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they have to be extremely light weight
because photons obviously, you know,

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it's not like we're feeling the weight
of photons hitting upon us. As light

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hits upon us. We can't feel
it at all. So it's a very

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weak force. But what makes this
possible are microchips. So the microchips have

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gotten so small that they're able on
a tiny chip about the size of a

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postage stamp. That's your spaceship essentially. So they have a camera on there,

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the directional like the navigation, all
of their other Telema tree everything's fitting

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on a tall or a tiny stamp
size microchips. So they have this chip

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they attached to the sale. They
put this sale out there, and then

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they shoot this laser at it.
This laser. By the way, this

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is interesting too. It takes one
hundred something like one hundred something gigawatts a

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better double check, it's like one
hundred thousand. Where is that? So

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I always think of gigawats when I
think of back to the future. Back

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to the future and that was something
like one point three gigawatts or something,

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and you know, doctor what's his
face was freaking out about where the heck

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are we going to get this many
gigawats? Yeah, it's a hundred gigawatts,

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so you can imagine it's quite a
bit. But they only have to

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have the laser shooting for like twenty
minutes because it only takes these things twenty

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minutes to get to top speed,
and that top speed is twenty percent the

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speed of light. Amazing, isn't
that incredible? So they're gonna get up

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to that speed in twenty minutes.
That is unbelievable. I can't believe this

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thing's so small. So and what's
going to do once it possibly gets there

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in so many years? Yeah?
Years, So it's really difficult. The

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difficult parts are, first of all, the sail. To hit the laser,

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you have to be really precise,
So the laser's got to hit this

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sail just right in order to get
it to get it to moving along.

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So that's also they figure that when
it's moving at that speed and at this

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distance, it's going to take them
twenty years to get there actually at this

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speed, so they're going to be
sailing for a long time, but they

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have They figure that each of these
little guys is probably going to hit at

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least four dust particles, and depending
on where the particle hits, could destroy

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the entire craft. Because of course, even a tiny dust particle can be

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devastating moving at those speeds. A
dust particle hitting like you or I,

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if we were to be traveling at
the twenty thousand or twenty percent the speed

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of light would be devastating and we
would probably die and it would be ugly,

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really gory and awful. But that's
why they're going to send a bunch

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of them so hopefully that they all
get there. Once they get there,

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they're only going to have a few
hours to collect all the data that they

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can get, so they'll have their
camera, will take pictures, and they're

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not even sure of what other devices
are going to be able to fit other

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on this chip to collect. So
of course they want to be able to

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get spectrauma. Spectrauma, yeah,
spectro stuff. I can't say spectraumtree.

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I'm not looking at the word,
but for some reason the word is not

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coming. No, you're closer than
I am, though, But anyways,

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essentially where they look at the makeup
of the atmosphere and stuff like that,

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to figure out what the atmosphere is
like out there. In particular, they're

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going to be sending it to habitable
or suspected possibly habitable planet, so planets

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in these Goldilocks zone they talk about
where it's possible for life to exist.

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So once they gather this data,
they're going to shoot a laser back to

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Earth to send all of these pictures
and stuff. So they're sending it via

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lasers, which is another difficulty where
I don't understand how can they there?

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Where's the laser going to be on
this little stamp? This little tiny stamp

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is yeah, so the little stamp, that's another thing that's got to have

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I know, isn't amazing. They're
going to have a little laser and it's

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going to shoot the data back to
Earth. And here's another difficult part because

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it's got to aim really well of
course, to get that laser to hit

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Earth. So it's another one of
the challenges. Then that data, going

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at the speed of light is going
to take four years to get here.

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Wow, isn't that incredible? So
then the data will be collected, hopefully

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and we'll be able to have pictures
of our neighbors at Alpha Centauri there.

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Wow. I can't even imagine how
someone could put something like this together.

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Yeah, and even conceive of the
whole thing. Yeah. You know,

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well spaceflight anyway takes extreme precision.
Yes, so there are so many things

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that have to work correctly anyway.
So yeah, so yeah, pretty exciting

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project. They just announced it last
week. Someone was commenting, this is

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old news. Well, I don't
know. I guess it depends on how

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you experience time and what you figure
to be old. But it's less than

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a week old news. Actually maybe
they thought it was the older stuff.

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But oh yeah, right, So
it's a new project. He's going to

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spend His last project was to give
money to SETI. He was giving one

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hundred million dollars to Sety. This
project, he's also spending one hundred million

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dollars and this hundred million dollars is
to build a prototype. Just to build

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a prototype, she's unbelievable. Wow, But he wants to do it,

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so, which is great because you
know, imagine it. How extraordinary is

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that to get some data and perhaps
pictures from this you know, place that's

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like four light years away. This
this neighboring star system. Amazing. Well,

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you know, someone like that is
going to go down in history.

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I think that's probably what he's doing, preserving his name in history. Yeah,

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if he really does this, he
pulls it off, so we'll see.

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I think he's gonna try so,
and it doesn't seem like it's too

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I think it's it's all doable.
I mean, these are things that are

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possible. Whereas NASA sending people to
Mars, which they feel they're going to

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do, they actually have some more
difficult challenges for that. For instance,

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they don't know how they're gonna shield
the spacecraft from radiation. So yeah,

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that's pretty important. Yeah, exactly. So it's it's all exciting stuff.

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Speaking of which, you know,
this is really exciting regarding space stories.

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This weekend they began to inflate,
attach and inflate the module or at least

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attach. Maybe they didn't on the
space station. Yeah, on the space

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station that was built by UFO and
Busiest Robert Bigelow's company. You have Bigelow

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Aerospace, right, Wow, how
cool is it? Exciting times? Exciting

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times in space. I feel like
it's like one of our UFO buddies has

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built this space capsule a couple because
of course he works comb kelliher is his

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lead scientist for BASS, the UFO
and Paranormal Exploring section, and so yeah,

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and he works on this too.
So it's like, are some UFO

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buddies have built this device that's now
going on the ISS? Amazing, isn't

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it? It is amazing times,
my friend. Yes, and you have

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to have deep pockets to do what
they're doing. And yeah, I'm glad

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they have the interest. That's all
I have to say. Mm. So

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there we go. There's UFO news
for the week. You got anything else

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to add, that's good for me. All right, Well, thanks again

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for coming on and talking UFO news
and we'll talk to you to Thank you

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very much. Always a pleasure.
All right, We'll see talk to you

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later. Baldi. All right,
okay, so let's go ahead and see

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what Chris Rutkowski has to say.
I am very excited to welcome to the

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show. Chris Ruthkowski. Hello,
Hello over Alejandro. Thank you so much.

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I know you're super busy because you're
this is your you're kind of famous

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right now. You're maybe saying more
media attention than you ever have, not

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that you're a stranger to media attention, but you're getting a lot right now,

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which is wonderful. Yeah. I
don't know whether I'm famous or infamous,

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but one of the two. And
it seems definitely seems that the twenty

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fifteenth survey has received more attention than
other years. And I live in a

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couple of years where it's been protracted, but certainly nothing like this. Well,

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I'm excited to have you on the
show. There's a paranormal sort of

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phenomena at that happens in my brain
and maybe you can help me out with

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this. There are people such as
yourself that I could swear you've been on

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the podcast before. But when I
looked into it, I was looking at

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I think pictures that I had used
for you or something. You haven't been

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on the podcast before. I think
I interviewed you for something else, but

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not the podcast. Yeah, we've
met several times and we've talked, and

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I don't recall being on your podcast, unless, of course, you know,

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the government has erased that from our
memories and all the record has gotten

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so, right, that's a good
point. That could be what happened.

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Yeah, So, and then of
course you were at the UFO Congress as

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a speaker, which was awesome.
It was wonderful to have you. So

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we'll get into this now. You're
what's going on right now is this great

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survey that you put out, and
that's why you're getting so much attention.

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But I want to hold off on
that for a minute and ask you about

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some other things, such as,
since it's the first time on podcasts and

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maybe some of the listeners are not
as familiar with your work, let's start

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off with the beginning, what got
you into UFOs and maybe tell us a

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little bit about your background as well. Well. Sure, I'd been around

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the UFO scene and guphology for quite
a long time. I actually met Alan

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Heineck early on in the nineteen seventies
and sort of worked with the Center for

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UFO studied. But at the same
time I met Stan Friedman for the first

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time started working with him. It
all started back in the mid nineteen seventies

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when there was actually quite a significant
flap of UFOs going on across Canada,

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and about the same time, I
was just at a university and in the

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astronomy department by proft was actually a
little frustrated because these people were calling in

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all the time that they han't seen
uf I was a team that UFOs were

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nonsense, and he was just getting
so annoidy he just couldn't get his work

291
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done. So I happened to be
in his office when a call came in,

292
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and I said, well, you
know what, why don't you just

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give me the phone calls whenever you
get those cases, and I'll take them

294
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off your hands. That way you
won't be bothered with figure. What a

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great way to suck up, I
mean, assist my professor and in his

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serious research. And so I started
talking with the people who were calling in

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reporting UFOs, and I was astounded
because these people were not as crazy or

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out of it that to the extent
that I've been led to believe by my

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professors in austronomy. In fact,
the people just simply wanted to know what

300
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it was that they were seeing or
certainly some of them sounded easy enough to

301
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explain, like stars and planets and
then a few other things. But some

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of them were very puzzling. And
I took it upon myself to go out

303
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and investigate and went throughout the country
side with the people in their farms and

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homes, and I was fascinated by
what it was that people were seeing and

305
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reporting. In many cases, I
had no idea with these things where that

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people were seeing the disc shaped objects, strange jobs that goes flashing like could

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hovered and landing fields and took off
again. And that type of thing is

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very curious to me. And it
was a matter of oh maybe several months

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later where I was asked by my
professor to sort of recap what I had

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heard from people, what were people
actually seeing. So I agreed to do

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a small departmental presentation. But word
got around that somebody was going to talk

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about UFOs, and it got leaked
out into the public and before I knew

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it, and when I gave my
presentation, there were five hundred people in

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the largest auditorium of university. Oh
my god, and there are TV cameras

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everywhere. And the next thing I
know, I was Canada's Fox Smoulders and

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it was quite significant. So it's
been quite an interesting ride. And along

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the way, as I said,
I've met some interesting people. I haven't

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been to a lot of conferences.
It was like a pleasure, and thank

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00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:21.880
you for inviting me to the Congress
this past year. But I do a

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lot of writing. I have ten
books out, all of them available or

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not all of the most of them
available on Amazon if people look them up.

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And I've been on a number of
other programs. I was on the

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original Unsolved Mysteries Robert Stack and all
that back back in those days. And

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I've been on a number of other
programs on TV from NBC and A and

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E and so forth, just trying
to talk about what it is that people

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really are seeing. And that's kind
of where I come from, in the

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sense that I'm curious as to what
people really are seeing. And I know

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all the hyper bowl of op aliens
coming here from whatever planet, and you

329
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know, they escaped from the Las
Vegas underground bases to go to Las Vegas,

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and you know that type of thing. I hear that, But what

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are people really seeing? And what's
the foundation upon which all of ethology is

332
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based? And those are the actual
reports. So in nineteen eighty nine,

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I had tried to actually figure out
how many cases they were in Canada in

334
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a single year, and to do
that I had to ask my colleagues across

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the country and we pulled our resources
and data and I produced the first Canadian

336
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UFO sarty hearing a snap shot of
what people at least in this country were

337
00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:48.039
actually reporting. And over the years
we've refined our weapons a little bit and

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we are getting, i think is
a really interesting look at what people really

339
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are seeing because we get reports not
only through UFO groups such as roof On

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and Peter Davenport's Sight other online sources, but also directly from witnesses. We

341
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actually do get cases directly from governmental
officials through some of the agencies. We

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00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.319
do get reports from pilots and air
traffic controllers. So we do have a

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really good idea what it is that
that people are seeing, at least in

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Canada. And the numbers are actually
quite interesting, and are your numbers so

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much different than us numbers? Typically
we're a factor of ken smaller than the

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United States, which actually does work
very well because we've determined that it seems

347
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that the number of UFO reports in
a Canadian province we prevented the state is

348
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related to the population. In otherwan, there's more people around to see something

349
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other than we get more reports,
and so the numbers are consistent. The

350
00:28:55.799 --> 00:29:03.319
trouble is we don't really have much
in the way of comparison because moufunds database

351
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.279
is sort of onto itself, and
in fact they only really got going on

352
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their their case management system over in
an intense way over the past ten years,

353
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so we existed long before them.
This is our twenty seventh year producing

354
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the UFO survey. This year,
in fact, we're up to seventeen thousand

355
00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:29.079
UFO reports on file, which actually
beats Blue Book, which is quite interesting.

356
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But we do find that the numbers
are related to population in terms of

357
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how many there are, but there
are variations in different areas of the country.

358
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We have data on whether there are
more objects of a certain color versus

359
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others, like orange is more common
than green, and we know that there

360
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are times of day when objects are
seen more commonly and what shapes are more

361
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:06.119
and so we're getting interesting data on
the characteristics of the sightings themselves, which

362
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is giving some insight into what people
really are experiencing. M Yeah, and

363
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you also make that data available as
far as the numbers and everything, so

364
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people can even crunch their own numbers
right absolutely, and we've made it available

365
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.640
in a couple of different ways,
not only in PDFs but also the raw

366
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data Excel files. Although I think
we're changing that over I think we are

367
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twenty fifteen. Data is also available
on PDF, but you can still grab

368
00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:40.920
it live up particular regions and do
some crunching, and of course the serious

369
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:44.920
researchers, we do make some of
the data available upon request, so it's

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actually searchable that way. One of
these days we are actually working the fellow

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00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:52.359
who's working on this with me in
terms of the data things Jeff different,

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and we're working now to leave all
of our data online so in the some

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time in the future it will be
possible for any want to look up all

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00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:07.279
the data for the past twenty five
or so years. So getting into the

375
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shapes and the sizes and the colors. You said orange is the most popular

376
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color. Yes, yeah, it's
still the most popular, although you know

377
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there are many white white objects seen
green offamine, fireball, so they can

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actually lead some insight into what is
is actually being observed by the witness.

379
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The shapes are quite interesting because the
classic flying saucer has long disappeared almost from

380
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:42.400
UFO data. Triangles are very popular
for quite a few years, and it

381
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seems the most popular shape right now
is round er spherical, so that it's

382
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:53.880
an interesting way that even during the
short history, relatively short history of the

383
00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:59.599
time has been during the study,
the characteristics of UFOs themselves have changed,

384
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which to me suggests you're a real
phenomenon because it's not something static, it's

385
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:10.960
not something that's that's stagnant and and
uh that that that just sort of exists

386
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:17.400
without any context. These are things
that that people are actually observing that seem

387
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to have different characteristics depending on the
time of day, the year, the

388
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:28.680
movement, that type of thing.
And it's quite interesting to look at the

389
00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:32.200
data in a broader context. So
there's not just one particular case that it's

390
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:38.359
it's representative of one hundreds upon hundreds
of cases. As far as orange orange

391
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:42.200
balls of light, which seems like, you know, there's a there's an

392
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:46.039
increase of that in Canada. There's
also in the last few years been an

393
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:52.000
increase. It was getting more attention
I think last year or maybe uh yeah,

394
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:55.720
last year about orange orbs in the
UK. It's been getting attention here.

395
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A lot of the suspicion in the
UK was that this was due to

396
00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:06.039
an increase in the use of Chinese
lanterns. Do you feel that's the case.

397
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:08.599
Yeah, the matter of fact,
we do know that is the case

398
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:14.240
many times here in Canada. In
fact, that we noticed a sharp,

399
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:20.240
sharp uptick in the summer is especially
and in the fall of orange lights moving

400
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in the sky, especially in groups
of you know, three four ten,

401
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:28.400
that type of thing, and we've
been able to track down quite a few

402
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:34.000
of them to releases of Chinese lanterns
during particular festivals or ceremonies, weddings and

403
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:40.160
so forth. You know, the
that the movie Tangled seem to make it

404
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:45.319
all very attractive of people to send
out Chinese lanterns. So that's done,

405
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:50.319
and we actually have found people who
have been able to trace back some of

406
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:52.880
the lights that we're seeing to people
releasing things from field, so we suspect

407
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:58.000
that's a big part of it.
Certainly not all of the cases are ascribable

408
00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:02.519
to those those types of explanations,
but you know, I think we have

409
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:07.160
to take those into account, and
we do. In fact, we find

410
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:15.559
that only about twelve percent of the
reports received last year are listed as unexplained,

411
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:21.760
and even after we look at the
those twelve percent, we can little

412
00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:27.039
that down a little bit to about
two or three or four percent of what

413
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:30.599
we call the high quality of knowns, where the witnesses have cooperated, we

414
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:34.320
have data, We've looked at flight
plans, we've looked at what else is

415
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:38.199
in the star in the sky and
so forth. But even when you're only

416
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:44.400
looking at a few percent, when
you're looking at a database of seventeen thousand

417
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:49.880
cases, you're still looking at a
significant number of cases that are levy shaking

418
00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:53.360
your head and that two or three
percent, what does that boil down to

419
00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:57.880
you, Like, how many you
know highly unusual cases do you feel that

420
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:01.639
you have in your records? Well, for example, in twenty fifteen,

421
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:09.800
that's two or three dozen cases,
Which is that bad? That so that

422
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:13.960
you know it gives us a good
chance to try and figure out you know

423
00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:20.440
that they are are unusual in some
particular way. Jeff Is attempted to look

424
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:23.239
at just the unknowns with regard to
the rest of the cases, and they

425
00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:27.760
do tend to have a lot of
similar characteristics, again suggesting that part of

426
00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:37.599
the same phenomenon that unknowns are our
UFO cases that simply are better observed than

427
00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:42.239
others in some cases, So there
could be a lot of things going on

428
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.599
that are a lot of us to
say that there is a real phenomenon that

429
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:50.280
science should be taking a look at. Yeah, the local move on here

430
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:54.719
in Arizona has I think one of
the best directors of investigations in the country

431
00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:01.519
and he Dennis Bryce. Our Mouth
is his name. He has he does

432
00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:07.440
a great job identifying sightings and they
typically have you know, their unknowns are

433
00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:12.320
only around four percent. And I
know that frustrates a lot of people,

434
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:15.679
but for me, that's really exciting
because that does boil down to, similar

435
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:20.079
to you, you know, at
least maybe a dozen sightings that they have

436
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.079
thoroughly examined it and cannot find an
answer for. And for me, that's

437
00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:28.079
pretty exciting. I know that there's
been you know, a lot of work

438
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:32.000
done to try to identify those things, honest, you know, work to

439
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:36.320
get that done, and they haven't
been able to do so. Yeah.

440
00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:38.920
And the other problem is, and
this is a prevalent throughout eupology, not

441
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:45.599
just in Canada, but it's really
appalling for an investigative standpoint, how few

442
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:50.599
cases are really thoroughly investigated now in
Canada. I'm going to say that we

443
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:57.559
have a reason for that because we
have far fewer investigators and a lot more

444
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:04.840
geography in the sense that here in
Manitoba there's myself and a few of my

445
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:09.960
colleagues doing the work, Jeff Dickman
and a few others, But in terms

446
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.400
of investigations is one. In fact, we only had a field investigator from

447
00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:17.960
Yufon startup this past year, and
he's certainly not run off his feet.

448
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.280
But in Saskatchewan, the neighboring province, there are no investigators whatsoever. So

449
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:30.280
if there was a sighting, you
know, you know, in Saskatchewan somewhere,

450
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:32.519
I'm not sure who would investigator.
We certainly would hear about it,

451
00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:38.039
why email or phone calls or through
media, but to investigate, And just

452
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:44.119
to give you a sense, where
I am sitting right now speaking with you

453
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:50.719
in Winnipeg, the capital city in
Saskatchewan. Just the next neighboring province over

454
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:59.199
is Regina, and it's about an
eight hour drive one way, so just

455
00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:01.880
imagine, if you know, and
that's you know, the capital city,

456
00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:08.039
and of course Saskatchewan is quite large, and to drive into the far north

457
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:16.000
of Saskatchewan would easily be twenty hours
drive one way. So sometimes very impractical

458
00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:21.760
to investigate cases like that, and
we just simply don't know the resources to

459
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:27.199
do everything. So it's quite surprising
we have as good data as we do.

460
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:36.039
Now, what's curious is you mentioned
the prevalence of triangular aircraft sidings or

461
00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:39.719
UFOs, and that's always fascinating to
me. I've had people on to discuss

462
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:43.559
it. Last week, I had
a gentleman on to discuss it, and

463
00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:46.679
he feels he had his own incredible
sighting and he was certain that what he

464
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:52.360
saw was probably man made. But
others don't feel that way and have also

465
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:57.920
done, you know, extensive research. So it's it's a confusing thing.

466
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:00.719
Although it's amazing. I mean,
some of the most amazing sightings are these

467
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:07.400
alleged triangular craft. What are your
feelings on those sightings? Do you do?

468
00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:12.480
You say they've increased out there?
Have you all as Canada had its

469
00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:17.039
triangular UFO flap or did those only
start in the last couple of decades or

470
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:21.920
what do you make of that phenomena. Well, we certainly do get a

471
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:28.039
lot of reports of triangular formations of
lights. The actual physical objects are,

472
00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:30.199
as you know, very rarely seen. It's it's very rare for something to

473
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:38.519
see an actual physical triangle itself.
Usually we get the reports of triangular formations

474
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:45.280
of lights and the inference is that
if they're on a triangular object. And

475
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:51.360
to me that's I find that suspicious. Not in the sense I don't believe

476
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:53.960
the witnesses, but it's just to
me, it's more likely that there are

477
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:59.800
three separate lights or objects that just
coincidentally be a triangle. Of course,

478
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:05.840
three objects from a triangle exactly,
that's not particularly unusual. So I think

479
00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:10.159
we're actually probably seeing When we hear
so many reports of triangles, I think

480
00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:17.960
the problem maybe in the witnesses descriptions, because they're often a little bit too

481
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:22.760
vague and not as well supported.
For example, I often hear a witness

482
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:27.920
tell me that what they saw was
round, Well, what does that mean

483
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:34.320
exactly? Are you talking like a
frisbee? Are you talking sphiracle? And

484
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:37.559
even with uses descriptions of how far
away things are very common to have a

485
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:42.719
witness say that this thing is one
or two or three miles away. Well,

486
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:45.719
if the object, in their opinion, was the size of a basketball,

487
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:50.119
and I actually have got this,
there was somebody who was very sincere.

488
00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:52.760
That's the object they had witnessed was
an orange light the size of a

489
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:59.519
basketball two miles away. Well,
in reality, you couldn't see an object

490
00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:04.519
to fighting about football two miles away. So and this is why it's so

491
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:08.519
important for investigators to often sit with
the witness and have humor her, you

492
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:14.039
know, really point out where things
where, try and get additional witnesses draw

493
00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:20.119
things. And it's a very very
protracted exercise and a lot of darn hard

494
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:22.880
work. And I don't blame people
for all wanting to do it, but

495
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:27.280
it does cause problems. And you
know, when we're trying to get data

496
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:30.719
to do analysis on, these are
actually some of the issues we'd have to

497
00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:36.360
deal with. Having been a filled
investigator for several years, I haven't done

498
00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:38.159
of course, I talked to a
lot of people up but I haven't done

499
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:43.599
the filled work like I used to. But when I did, one of

500
00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:45.880
the issues, you know, I
found was just like you talked about.

501
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:51.760
They would often say round when they
meant a point of light, and that's

502
00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:57.039
a big difference. Absolutely. In
fact, that's so wonderful that we sit

503
00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:00.679
with her. There's a couple of
other people, Ashley Kirchier and Kelly Smith,

504
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:05.920
who do a lot of our data
entering. And when you're looking through

505
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:10.159
a report and somebody says, well, what I saw was a series of

506
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:15.760
orbs. Well, to me,
an orb is a spherical ball like a

507
00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:19.920
basketball, I suppose, and what
they had actually seen were lights in the

508
00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:22.719
sky, which are points of light
that we're moving in the sky, But

509
00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:28.519
the mind does interpret that as being
some sort of sphere. And because orbs

510
00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:32.280
are so so much in the mind
of people in the UFO field now,

511
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:37.960
it's often just simply assumed that a
distant light in the sky is actually some

512
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:42.639
sort of spherical orb and the two
are not consistent. I agree. It's

513
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:47.800
even the terminology when we're doing the
analysis causes issues. So it's no wonder

514
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:54.840
that even something as intrinsically simple as
data analysis of UFO reports can get very,

515
00:42:55.039 --> 00:43:04.239
very complicated. In this report,
are there any cases that stand out

516
00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:10.000
to you, maybe a couple that
you thought were particularly spectacular interesting? Well,

517
00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:15.559
to me, the most one of
the most interesting came from northern Quebec.

518
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:22.119
A truck driver was driving last fall
and he said that as he was

519
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:27.480
driving along an isolated part of the
road, he saw a light come up

520
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:29.880
behind him, a blue light,
and he thought it as a semi trying

521
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:32.280
to wanted to pass, so he
pulled over slightly to the side of the

522
00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:37.440
road and wouldn't you know it,
this light moved as if to pass,

523
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:42.639
but then when I got level with
his truck, the light just simply disappeared,

524
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:47.519
so straight out of close encounters the
moon. So some of those cases

525
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:54.760
are very, very intriguing. And
have you had your own sighting? No,

526
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:59.599
I've never seen anything, you know. I've been out with a lot

527
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:05.119
of them viduals to some of the
hotspots. I've traveled across Canada to places

528
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:09.719
where the UFOs are frequently seen,
and nothing has ever manifested that I just

529
00:44:10.360 --> 00:44:14.960
couldn't explain. We've we've seen lights
at the end of the road. I'm

530
00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:19.519
sure your listeners will be familiar with
with that term, where you're looking down

531
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:23.360
an isolated road and a light appears
on a little way in the distance that

532
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:28.519
moves from side to side and sometimes
comes towards you and sometimes moves away.

533
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:30.960
And cars have been known to chase
such lights at high speeds if the lights

534
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:36.599
continue to zip away. So I've
been to some areas to see those,

535
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:44.000
but they haven't really struck me as
being all that unusual. So mm hmmm,

536
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:47.840
yeah, yeah, so this report, I mean, you've been really

537
00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:52.440
busy, So again, thank you
for making the time because like even today

538
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.360
you've been doing interviews. I think
you said you did one with the Yeahoo

539
00:44:55.480 --> 00:45:00.400
you were on you know, CTV
did a great report, uh in an

540
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:06.199
interview with you, and and I
think I've seen CNA the even I've seen

541
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:12.559
it all over the place NBC.
Uh, your report has really taken the

542
00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:15.599
media by storm. Uh. Why
do you think that is that this year

543
00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:22.920
this report has gotten so big,
well here in Canada, and I think

544
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:25.559
the effect is the same in the
United States. There's a rule in journalism

545
00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:34.559
called anything but the election, and
so the media are a little a little

546
00:45:34.599 --> 00:45:37.960
tired of doing nothing but political story. So they're looking for something a little

547
00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:42.039
bit unusual. That's certainly one factor. The other thing is that we're not

548
00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:50.239
uh, really going out and talking
in terms of you know, aliens visiting

549
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:55.440
us and giving us telepathic information and
uh, you know that type of thing.

550
00:45:55.880 --> 00:46:00.360
We're looking at the at the UFO
phenomenon from the room scientific standpoint,

551
00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:06.199
and I think there's a hunger for
that because there's so much sensational stuff out

552
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:09.760
there. Even some of the TV
shows are really over the top in terms

553
00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:16.039
of you know, g Wouds and
you are the aliens trying to communicate with

554
00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:22.199
us? But you know, I
think people are looking for the serious information.

555
00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:25.719
What it is that people really are
seeing, the average person seeing what

556
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:30.000
are the characteristics of the lights?
And because it's such a common denominator,

557
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:36.079
and polls have shown that about ten
percent of the North American population believe they've

558
00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:40.760
seen UFOs, it strikes accord with
so many people that they can relate to.

559
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.199
You know, close encounters are really
a very small fraction of the of

560
00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:51.280
the caseload. Most people simply see
lights in the sky that they can't explain.

561
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:55.639
And I think the greater proportion of
the viewership and leadership of the of

562
00:46:55.679 --> 00:47:01.960
the media follow that category that they're
simply see a few things that don't seem

563
00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:08.039
to be stars and planes and satellites. And it relates to the average person

564
00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:14.239
because those things are fairly common,
and almost everybody has a friend or an

565
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:17.079
uncle or an aunt or somebody who
they drive to work with who's seems something

566
00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:22.360
mm hmm, yeah, well I
have a similar perspective, of course,

567
00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:29.639
I mean to document the sightings in
what's going on, and that's where my

568
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:34.760
passion lies as well, because it
feels like and you know, i'd like

569
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:39.199
to hear what you think. When
people get distracted away from that, then

570
00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:44.679
they and you hear this a lot. I'm so bored with the nuts and

571
00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:47.639
bolts. I want to see what
they're saying, you know, what they're

572
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:52.519
doing and what they're up to.
But I feel that the nuts and bolts,

573
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:59.679
at least at tracking the data is
really important because yeah, that's exactly

574
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:05.199
right, that it is important because
this is the foundation upon which all the

575
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:13.039
speculation is based. So all the
discussion about what planet they're from and what

576
00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:16.280
the message is and uh, you
know, when they're green or blue or

577
00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:22.159
tall, white or whatever, all
of that is speculation without without any backing

578
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:29.079
up of proof. And what the
whole you know, constituent of of uphology

579
00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:32.800
is is based on these these reports
from the average person. And admittedly some

580
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:37.199
of the cases are quite remarkable,
but these are this is what really is

581
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:40.559
being seen. So when you strip
away all the other stuff, we know

582
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:45.519
that these cases are real, we
can document them, we know who said

583
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:49.440
them, we know where they were
located, and so forth. This is

584
00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:52.440
what people really are seeing. Now, let's try to build on this basis

585
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:57.760
rather than to sort of go off
far afield and try to come back and

586
00:48:58.119 --> 00:49:01.039
see if it fits in with the
data from the data outward rather than from

587
00:49:01.239 --> 00:49:07.760
outside into the data. So you
feel it seems that the data does,

588
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:13.519
however, represent or makes an argument
that this is a true phenomena, that

589
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:21.480
all of these things being seen we
don't have necessarily explanations for. Yeah.

590
00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:27.960
In fact, what we say is
that there doesn't seem to be an easier

591
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:30.400
simple explanation in the twelve percent,
and then when we dig a little deeper

592
00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:35.239
into the one or two or three
percent, there doesn't seem to be a

593
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:39.840
more elaborate explanation for some of these
cases, although that doesn't mean they can't

594
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:44.880
be explained if we have a little
more information. Having said that, I

595
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:51.679
think what we can say is if
there isn't a real physical phenomenon called UFOs

596
00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:55.599
and whatever that means, whether we're
talking aliens or military tests or some sort

597
00:49:55.599 --> 00:50:00.639
of ball lightning or whatever, that
at the very least there is a psychological

598
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:07.639
or sociological phenomenon called phenomenon called UFOs, And by that I mean, you

599
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:14.960
know, psychologically and sociologically, maybe
there's a need for people to interpret things

600
00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:19.920
in the sky. There's things that
they don't understand in this way. Perhaps

601
00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:24.599
we are looking for salvation because our
lives are so messed up here. The

602
00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:32.280
planet is polluted, and we're on
the Vergin the Queer War, and the

603
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:37.239
economy is going down the tubes.
We're looking for someone to solve this mess

604
00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:40.559
for us. And this is I
think why people turn to contact ease and

605
00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:45.480
they're the spiritual aspects of euthology,
because they're looking for someone to save them

606
00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:50.920
from whatever is going on here on
Earth. And that may contribute to the

607
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:55.679
UFO phenomenon in some way. And
in either case, whether it's physical or

608
00:50:55.840 --> 00:51:04.400
something from the behavioral and that you
personal sciences, humanistic sciences, science should

609
00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:07.679
be taking a look at the UFO
phenomenon more. You know. The last

610
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:13.280
time that there was a study like
this is, of course, the book

611
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:19.440
and Condom back in I say they
finished in nineteen seventy. Since then,

612
00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:22.760
science has been very reluctant to look
into the UFO phenomenon, although there have

613
00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:29.039
been a few people who've been publishing
papers and scientific journals, peer review journals

614
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:31.559
from time to time. I actually
have two or three papers like that myself,

615
00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:36.920
and I think it's important to try
and get the scientific community to take

616
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:40.480
a more serious look at the very
least there's some decent PhD thesis that are

617
00:51:40.519 --> 00:51:45.800
waiting to be written on USFOS from
whatever angle. Yeah, you know,

618
00:51:46.599 --> 00:51:52.320
Jackovla made that argument before that,
and I think it was even something he

619
00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:55.280
said at the UN when they were
arguing for studies to be opened up,

620
00:51:55.519 --> 00:52:01.719
was that if the government doesn't officially
look into this topic, uh and give

621
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:07.519
you know, their findings, then
people are just going to speculate and build

622
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:12.079
all of these wild assumptions because they're
not going to have any guidance. And

623
00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:17.719
and what he predicted has become true
absolutely, and I have to agree with

624
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:22.280
him that the I think because the
sign of the community is shied away,

625
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:29.800
it's the vacuum has been filled by
people who are speculating. People who are

626
00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:35.079
less qualified than than some that are
you know, have a particular acts to

627
00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:39.000
grind in some cases, and they're
making naims for themselves, getting a little

628
00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:45.559
more attention than they deserve. And
yet you know, there's no question that

629
00:52:45.639 --> 00:52:52.840
I think the public has to be
satiated that you know, people want to

630
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:55.440
know, they're curious. It's explained
in some way why the media attention is

631
00:52:55.480 --> 00:53:02.320
so so great on the Canadian ufoster
they give people are curious through the general

632
00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:08.199
public does want to have some information
and they're a little tired of hearing the

633
00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:13.320
stories. They want to know what's
really going on and looking at the hard

634
00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:21.960
data at least one way of reaching
that. So and going further, I

635
00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:30.000
guess starting to get into your own
speculation. Do you feel that from what

636
00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:37.039
you've looked at in your research that
it is possible that intelligent extraterrestrial civilization is

637
00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:43.280
getting a visiting. Do you think
it's it's that's definitely happening. What is

638
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:47.719
happening? Or is it possible?
There's no question it's possible, and I

639
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:52.719
have to say anything as possible with
my astronomy background. You know, most

640
00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:59.960
of my colleagues agree that they probably
is life out there somewhere. And yet

641
00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:02.960
we all know that the distance problem
and how long it we take to travel

642
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:09.719
and so forth makes it, you
know, impossible, and even in the

643
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:17.320
most elaborate speculation. I know Stephen
Hawking just this past week is proposing close

644
00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:22.719
to light speed travel between stars using
light fills. That's just to the mirrort

645
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:27.960
start. So I know there's some
speculation there, but in terms of you

646
00:54:28.039 --> 00:54:30.039
know, the star trek star wars
kind of travel between stars, we have

647
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:35.320
really no idea how to do that, however, and I make this point

648
00:54:35.320 --> 00:54:44.119
whenever I'm speaking to students or in
colleges that you know, the soulfone that

649
00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:49.360
I'm speaking to you on right now
would have been completely unheard of as recently

650
00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:53.559
as fifty years ago, and I
cannot speculate what I will be talking to

651
00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:59.639
you on or via fifty years from
now, because the technology is advancing so

652
00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:06.360
much. Well, there are stars
relatively near our own Sun and have planets

653
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:12.519
around them that may have planets that
are, you know, a little bit

654
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:17.000
older than our Earth, not just
one hundred years, not just a thousand

655
00:55:17.079 --> 00:55:21.320
years, but tens of thousands or
one hundreds of thousands of years older,

656
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:29.000
And if civilizations arose on those planets, it's possible that technological civilization might have

657
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:32.599
figured out a way not to break
the laws of physics and you know,

658
00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:38.519
just pop here and there using some
fuel that we haven't discovered, but maybe

659
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:43.760
bending the laws of physics or using
them in the ways we simply haven't even

660
00:55:43.960 --> 00:55:47.760
dreamt of yet, so that the
interstellar travel could be possible in the future.

661
00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:52.679
And if somebody out there has figured
that out, maybe, just maybe

662
00:55:52.719 --> 00:55:57.800
they might have found something of interest
here in this little pale blue dot,

663
00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:01.360
as Carl Sagan used to describe it, in this backwater arm of the Key

664
00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:07.440
Way galaxy. Maybe, but it's
wonderful to speculate. And we're currently living

665
00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:14.920
in the Stephen Spielberg generation or post
Steven Steelberg generation in some ways that we

666
00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:17.719
take it for granted that aliens are
here and they're possible, and it's travel

667
00:56:19.239 --> 00:56:22.599
It's possible to travel between the stars
very easily. I mean there's even a

668
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:28.360
movie in theaters right now about an
alien battle like Batman. So you know,

669
00:56:28.599 --> 00:56:30.880
whether the aliens are here or not, we sort of take it for

670
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:37.280
granted, but maybe, And I
use this as a way of introducing science

671
00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:40.000
to kids. You know, what
would an alien look like? How do

672
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:44.119
you travel between the stars, how
do rockets work? How would a flying

673
00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:47.400
saucer fly if one really existed.
It's the way of getting people thinking about

674
00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:52.400
science. And what a better way
than to use to use UFOs as a

675
00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:59.199
way of thinking about science. When
I interview people who who write movies or

676
00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:05.760
make movies, I like to ask
about this seeming dichotomy that there is.

677
00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:08.800
Like you said, when it comes
to entertainment, it's almost like a given

678
00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:15.920
that we will meet aliens or they're
out there, and almost every movie about

679
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:20.480
the future somehow aliens are involved.
Star Trek, star Wars, all of

680
00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:23.519
that sort of thing, although started
Wars was a long long time ago,

681
00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:28.000
right, yeah, in a galaxy
far far away, and yeah, far

682
00:57:28.119 --> 00:57:36.199
far away. But at the same
time, people are hesitant to say or

683
00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:39.800
even go on the record, less
so these days, but more so even

684
00:57:40.519 --> 00:57:46.280
ten twenty years ago, that aliens
most likely exist. So it seems like

685
00:57:46.360 --> 00:57:51.199
this dichotomy even though they're totally willing
to feel like, oh, yeah,

686
00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:53.519
you know, aliens, when we
look at the future, aliens will be

687
00:57:53.559 --> 00:57:59.480
involved, but if you ask right
now, there's still hesitant to say it's

688
00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:04.800
a likely possibility. Well yeah,
And especially science fiction authors who have been

689
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:09.480
very reluctant to embrace the UFO theme
as real. I mean, as amovin

690
00:58:09.519 --> 00:58:17.320
Clark both disc UFOs quite significantly.
A lot of science fiction authors won't even

691
00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:21.119
talk about them because they find it
so ridiculous. And these are the people

692
00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:25.719
who talk about aliens all the time, which is actually quite interesting, and

693
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:30.840
I had my own personal experience where
back in I'll go back to the seventies

694
00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:34.920
again, when I was really getting
into UFO, they wanted to read as

695
00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:37.639
much as I could on the subject, and there I had found a copy

696
00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:46.440
of an old pulp magazine called Flying
Saucers from Other Worlds, which was which

697
00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:51.679
was originally a science fiction pulp called
Other Worlds. And then got some Flying

698
00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:58.719
Saucer content through the Shaver Mystery and
whatever and that another podcast. But I

699
00:58:58.760 --> 00:59:00.280
was trying to get more copies of
this, and in the back of this

700
00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:06.480
issue of this pulp magazine from the
fifties was the address of a fellow who

701
00:59:06.519 --> 00:59:12.360
was running a science fiction society in
my own city back in the fifties.

702
00:59:12.639 --> 00:59:14.679
So I thought, well, low, if I contact him and he's still

703
00:59:14.679 --> 00:59:17.760
around, maybe he'll have some copies. So I contacted him. Not only

704
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:22.840
did he have extra copies, he
said the science fiction society was still meeting

705
00:59:22.840 --> 00:59:28.519
in his home. So I went
to the next meeting and I was surrounded

706
00:59:28.559 --> 00:59:34.039
by people who were really into science
fiction, like this before Star Trek really

707
00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:37.039
got taken off, but it was
the people who are really super into science

708
00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:39.280
fiction. They knew all the authors, and some of them had met them

709
00:59:39.320 --> 00:59:44.320
personally. One of the people who
actually in first found them from the thirties.

710
00:59:44.360 --> 00:59:46.760
It was really quite fascinating, and
they were a little hostile to the

711
00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:52.559
unfil phenomenon. And when I was
introduced as being the UFO guy, one

712
00:59:52.599 --> 00:59:55.280
of the spokespersons said, well,
you know, we're not into that.

713
00:59:55.360 --> 01:00:01.000
We're not into that UFO stuff because
we're into science fiction and everybody knows who's

714
01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:05.599
that. UFOs are nothing more than
oh wait, yeah, you know what

715
01:00:05.639 --> 01:00:09.800
you can say, ye, sit
down, we'll talk. Yeah, just

716
01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:15.480
a strange disconnect, the strange disconnect. So once they realize that UFOs were

717
01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:19.760
in fact science fiction and their view, I was fine to talk with the

718
01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:23.079
group and then see what their heads
were at. So it's been an interesting

719
01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:28.760
ride, pretty strange. So what
do you say, because I'm sure you

720
01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:31.199
get this, because we get this
all the time. And when people come

721
01:00:31.239 --> 01:00:35.119
to you and are like, you
know, well, I'm talking to the

722
01:00:35.199 --> 01:00:38.480
aliens, or I know people who
are talking to the aliens, or you

723
01:00:38.679 --> 01:00:45.880
know this person or this person who's
popular out there speaking or whatever who say

724
01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:50.599
they're talking to the aliens. Why
are you worrying about the sightings when we

725
01:00:50.679 --> 01:00:53.400
can hear what the aliens are saying. What do you tell those people?

726
01:00:54.360 --> 01:01:00.639
Well, you know, there's no
question that eupology is a signal forget part

727
01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:07.880
faith that you know, their belief
is a very significant part of eupology.

728
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:14.199
And you know, if someone wants
to say that they are in contact with

729
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:17.719
aliens and they speak to them every
Sunday and they give them revelations, you

730
01:01:17.719 --> 01:01:22.079
know, that's cool. If that's
if that's you know, what what you

731
01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:24.199
believe, I'm not gonna miss you
because I are. There would be no

732
01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:30.159
way for me to change your mind
anyways. Is it possible that people are

733
01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:35.480
really in communication with alien visible?
It's possible, but I don't see the

734
01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:39.440
evidence. And what I usually pursue
people who say they're in contact with aliens

735
01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:43.239
and I ask them, or can
you be a little more descriptive about,

736
01:01:43.320 --> 01:01:45.840
you know, have them channel,
you know, instructions on how to build

737
01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:52.519
a you know, a transporter,
or can you have an at least you

738
01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:55.719
know, appear tomorrow afternoon in the
sky so that I can take a photo

739
01:01:55.760 --> 01:02:00.760
of them and all that sort of
stuff. And it's usually hyperbole of well,

740
01:02:00.639 --> 01:02:05.760
humans aren't ready, and that's not
how they work. And you know,

741
01:02:06.199 --> 01:02:09.079
I've studied the UFO literature for a
lot longer than most people have been

742
01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:14.320
around studying it, and I looked
at the contact the literature, and you

743
01:02:14.360 --> 01:02:15.559
know, it has done a lot
better. In the fifties, give me

744
01:02:16.199 --> 01:02:22.360
Aura Rains and Howard Nner and even
Georgia Damski. You had some wonderful stories

745
01:02:22.360 --> 01:02:27.559
of encounters with aliens. And if
you read what they're saying or what they

746
01:02:27.639 --> 01:02:31.159
said back in the nineteen fifties,
it's almost word for word what people are

747
01:02:31.199 --> 01:02:37.000
saying now about the aliens. So
it's really nothing new. Certainly things haven't

748
01:02:37.039 --> 01:02:43.159
advanced, and in terms of humans
aren't being ready for the message or certain

749
01:02:43.159 --> 01:02:45.880
people are selected. And if I
don't believe that I'm not going to see

750
01:02:45.880 --> 01:02:49.599
the aliens, well you know a
lot off that's what it takes to see

751
01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:53.599
the aliens. Then you know,
maybe maybe give me the other aliens instead.

752
01:02:53.639 --> 01:02:59.920
Maybe they give the aliens from from
Greater articular instead of Beta fictoris.

753
01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:04.760
Right, yeah, I hear you. I mean the latest message I got

754
01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:07.199
that was similar to that, and
I hadn't responded. Maybe if that person's

755
01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:12.960
listening, then they'll hear my answer. But and they said, the aliens

756
01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:16.159
told them that we need to get
the message out, we need to quit

757
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:21.480
trashing our planet and we need to
take care of our planet as soon as

758
01:03:21.519 --> 01:03:24.400
possible, or we're going to destroy
ourselves. And it's like, well,

759
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:30.559
that's really nothing new. No,
if you read the news, people who

760
01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:36.679
don't believe in aliens at all are
saying the same thing all the time.

761
01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:42.400
So how does that really add to
any conversation or really, we know that

762
01:03:42.519 --> 01:03:47.440
we already know that maybe we're talking
about the interstellar Green Peace Voyagers or something

763
01:03:47.800 --> 01:03:52.559
I don't know, right, And
they're just one more group. So add

764
01:03:52.599 --> 01:03:57.719
them to the list of organizations or
people out there who are advocating us taking

765
01:03:57.760 --> 01:04:01.719
better care of our planet. Yeah, it's a long list. So like

766
01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:05.800
you, I mean, I'm open
to the idea that it's it's possible,

767
01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:12.800
but you know, the messages are
all very new age and you have you

768
01:04:12.840 --> 01:04:15.239
know, deep Pak Chopra is telling
us the same stuff and he's not an

769
01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:19.719
alien, So it really doesn't not
that we not that we know as far

770
01:04:19.760 --> 01:04:26.159
as we know exactly he may be. But among there there's just lots of

771
01:04:26.199 --> 01:04:30.440
people or we also have our own
instincts that tell as something similar. So

772
01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:34.800
yeah, so like you said,
and it even goes back further to the

773
01:04:34.840 --> 01:04:40.719
contactes who've been saying this for a
very long time. But it hasn't necessarily,

774
01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:45.199
at least as far as we know, changed, you know, how

775
01:04:45.239 --> 01:04:51.239
we live. I agree, And
I mean you can see that that you

776
01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:55.039
know, over the past, you
know how many years as you followed you

777
01:04:55.079 --> 01:04:58.440
want to go back, nothing's really
changed. But I would disagree. I

778
01:04:58.440 --> 01:05:02.880
think this phenomenon it self is evolved. Close encounters are almost I don't know,

779
01:05:03.039 --> 01:05:08.920
well, close encounters of the second
kind are almost non existent. So

780
01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:13.880
why is that? I mean,
like the real exciting up close to UFOs,

781
01:05:14.719 --> 01:05:15.920
the ones that leave marks on the
ground and things like that. I

782
01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:18.960
mean, there was a time,
but Tied Phillips is doing a fantastic job

783
01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:25.039
document in physical traces. The physical
traces are almost vanished completely from eucology.

784
01:05:25.079 --> 01:05:28.719
I don't even think we've got one
out of the twelve hundred and something last

785
01:05:28.800 --> 01:05:33.519
year in Canada at all. And
why is that? Because in the seventies

786
01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:38.239
and eighties they were among the most
common types of UFOs. The shapes have

787
01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:42.360
changed, people, you know,
we now have images of you know,

788
01:05:42.519 --> 01:05:47.320
we have the capability of taking videos
and photographs, you know, not necessarily

789
01:05:47.360 --> 01:05:51.039
good ones, but we have the
capability. So so much has changed,

790
01:05:51.159 --> 01:05:56.320
and you know the fact that we
you know, we just looked at images

791
01:05:56.360 --> 01:06:00.880
from Pluto just a matter of months
ago, and we talked about Stephen Hockey

792
01:06:00.880 --> 01:06:05.079
wanting to send robots to Alfice or
talks to US centure. Y. I

793
01:06:05.079 --> 01:06:10.440
mean, we're living in a very
exciting age and I think the notion that

794
01:06:10.480 --> 01:06:15.039
we're not alone is going to become
more and more important because we do have

795
01:06:15.079 --> 01:06:18.800
this exploration instinct. We do want
to find out, we do want to

796
01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:21.960
know if we are alone and give
some meaning to our lives. So I

797
01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:29.480
think talking about UFOs not only is
a good way to bring some science into

798
01:06:29.559 --> 01:06:32.599
our lives, but bring some meeting
into our lives as well. Now,

799
01:06:32.639 --> 01:06:36.400
before I let you go, I
want to ask you about something you had

800
01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:40.920
mentioned, and I want to talk
about the Canadian government and UFOs. Now,

801
01:06:41.360 --> 01:06:45.280
their program, or at least their
interest kind of paralleled the US.

802
01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:46.880
And when the US got out of
the business, they pretty much got out

803
01:06:46.880 --> 01:06:51.039
of the business, but at least
they did. I haven't looked at it

804
01:06:51.079 --> 01:06:56.599
in maybe a year or two.
They had some a great website with their

805
01:06:56.599 --> 01:07:01.960
official documents and things like their investigation
like into Shape Harbor or some other significant

806
01:07:02.039 --> 01:07:06.440
UFO cases. Is that still up
and I mean that was pretty cool sight

807
01:07:08.360 --> 01:07:12.320
Well. Yeah. Matter of fact, the Canadian government, you know,

808
01:07:12.320 --> 01:07:15.199
had its own parallel version of Blue
Book. They worked in cooperation. There's

809
01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:23.280
Project Magnet and Project Second Story.
And one thing that is quite different is

810
01:07:23.320 --> 01:07:27.679
that blue Book officially edited in the
seventies and Condon the the court was of

811
01:07:27.719 --> 01:07:31.400
the sixteen ninety seventy. They really
don't know much beyond that for the United

812
01:07:31.400 --> 01:07:40.599
States, But in Canada things happened
a little bit differently because the Canadian equivalent

813
01:07:40.679 --> 01:07:45.760
of the Smithsonian, which is called
the National Research Council of Canada, was

814
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:51.199
studying meteors and meteorites and they wanted
to actually find a landed metea orite maybe

815
01:07:51.280 --> 01:07:57.239
still steaming from zipping through the atmosphere, and they needed a way of finding

816
01:07:57.280 --> 01:08:00.760
out where these things were people who
had seen them audience track come down.

817
01:08:00.159 --> 01:08:10.000
So they enlisted the RCNT Europead amount
of Police to investigate reports of lights in

818
01:08:10.039 --> 01:08:15.639
the sky. So in fact,
the Orkney amount of Police were investigating UFOs

819
01:08:15.199 --> 01:08:21.279
on behalf of the National Research Council, and these reports were routinely filed in

820
01:08:21.359 --> 01:08:29.199
the archives of Canada and they continued
to do that right up until nineteen ninety

821
01:08:29.239 --> 01:08:34.079
five. So we actually have records
beyond Blue Book in Canada of official investigations

822
01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:39.560
into UFOs up until nineteen ninety five. When it turns out at the office

823
01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:45.600
that was studying meteoritics in the National
Research Council was closed because of the interest

824
01:08:45.760 --> 01:08:51.279
was sort of shifted to the Canada
Armen supplying American fatellites with arms and things

825
01:08:51.319 --> 01:08:59.880
like that. But so that finished
in nineteen ninety five, but reports of

826
01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:04.479
UFOs and objects in the sky being
seen continued to come in. And I

827
01:09:04.520 --> 01:09:12.720
was approached in the nineteen nineties by
somebody at the National Research Council because I

828
01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:15.199
was in astronomy and I was at
some meetings in Ottawa, and they asked

829
01:09:15.199 --> 01:09:18.119
me if I had any thoughts on
what to do with the reports. I

830
01:09:18.119 --> 01:09:21.399
said, well, you can always
send them to me. I'll look at

831
01:09:21.439 --> 01:09:25.680
them, and by goll if it
wasn't a repeat of what happened when I

832
01:09:25.720 --> 01:09:30.239
was in first year astronomy and university. Suddenly, in the year two thousand,

833
01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:36.520
I started receiving official reports of UFOs. Wow. And that continues to

834
01:09:36.600 --> 01:09:44.039
this day and they are routinely included
in the Canadian UFO Survey every year.

835
01:09:44.880 --> 01:09:49.760
So in effect, we do have
you know, there was no cessation,

836
01:09:50.720 --> 01:09:56.319
you know that includes a disclosure.
There never was the problem of disclosure in

837
01:09:56.359 --> 01:10:00.600
Canada. We have a continuous record
of all the reports, some of which

838
01:10:00.760 --> 01:10:04.760
up until about I think the latest
one that's in the reports online at least

839
01:10:05.159 --> 01:10:09.640
are from the sometime in the eighties. But if you can actually go to

840
01:10:09.720 --> 01:10:14.359
the National Archives of Canada, they're
actually all there for anyone to look at.

841
01:10:15.479 --> 01:10:18.520
So that's very different from the United
States. Wow, that's great.

842
01:10:18.560 --> 01:10:25.319
And so now you received the reports
that the RCMP received, and in fact

843
01:10:25.319 --> 01:10:29.600
the RCMP aren't. Yeah, they're
not doing it anymore, although admittedly the

844
01:10:29.720 --> 01:10:33.760
RCMP is still as reports from time
to time, but they go into their

845
01:10:33.760 --> 01:10:39.000
own separate files, not necessarily in
the National archives, in the National Research

846
01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:43.840
Council. And then did you do
you work with other government agencies that send

847
01:10:43.880 --> 01:10:49.199
you reports. I've only received reports
from Transport Canada, the RCMP, and

848
01:10:49.239 --> 01:10:56.239
the Canadian Forces. That's great,
and they all seem pretty open. Yeah,

849
01:10:56.279 --> 01:11:00.119
I mean, I don't have any
illusions that that I'm getting all of

850
01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:04.239
them. You know, I suspect
that I'm only getting a small perhaps a

851
01:11:04.279 --> 01:11:08.800
small fraction, I just you know, occasional ones. But we certainly do

852
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:15.199
get there the pilot reports, reports
from air traffic controllers and from some forces

853
01:11:15.239 --> 01:11:20.199
personnel from Canadian Armed Forces bases,
so we do get some good representative samples

854
01:11:20.199 --> 01:11:26.079
of not just civilian but also official
sources of UFOs. Wow. Great,

855
01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:30.000
Yeah, reminds me of a story
John Greenwald tells of trying to get some

856
01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:35.800
Nora at UFOUH information and he couldn't, But then he called up the Canadian

857
01:11:36.279 --> 01:11:39.760
arm and they were like, yeah, no problem, and they sent him

858
01:11:39.800 --> 01:11:43.640
tons of files. Yeah, I
mean Dora. His name is all over

859
01:11:43.720 --> 01:11:45.239
some of the reports that we get
up here, so you know, it's

860
01:11:47.319 --> 01:11:51.479
it's an interesting, uh, it's
an interesting way to get data. Curiously

861
01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:55.720
enough, though, of course,
the reports are both the same as anything

862
01:11:55.720 --> 01:11:59.800
you get from civilian researchers, you
know, lights in the sky that could

863
01:11:59.800 --> 01:12:02.920
be anything, and the majority of
them aren't very interesting at all. So

864
01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:06.680
in many cases, what we're looking
at as a parallel of the Ministry of

865
01:12:06.680 --> 01:12:14.399
Defense reports that that we're being obtained
through our friends in England. But you

866
01:12:14.399 --> 01:12:18.760
know, you get these thousands upon
thousands of files of UFOs, but the

867
01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:24.199
vast majority of them aren't very interesting
at all. Well, thank you so

868
01:12:24.319 --> 01:12:28.680
much for being on right now.
If you google Canada UFOs, you're going

869
01:12:28.760 --> 01:12:34.479
to get pictures and videos of Chris
talking about him. You are Canada UFOs

870
01:12:36.039 --> 01:12:39.960
And if you want to look at
the survey itself, you go to survey

871
01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:45.520
dot so, Survey dot Canadian UFO
report dot com and that takes you to

872
01:12:45.520 --> 01:12:48.359
the web page where all the links
are to the survey is going back quite

873
01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:54.680
sometime. That's great. So you
are kind of the representative of UFOs in

874
01:12:54.720 --> 01:13:00.359
Canada's and I can't think of a
better person to be the representative for that

875
01:13:00.439 --> 01:13:04.399
because of your very grounded way of
looking at this topic. I wish people,

876
01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:09.680
you know, that had had similar
ideas when they thought of ufology when

877
01:13:09.680 --> 01:13:13.399
it comes to the US. But
there's so many characters involved, some of

878
01:13:13.439 --> 01:13:17.319
them less discerning. I'm still a
character. Oh, there's no doubt about

879
01:13:17.399 --> 01:13:23.840
that. We didn't get to get
into. If people go see Chris's Facebook,

880
01:13:23.840 --> 01:13:28.239
you're going to see plenty of jokes
and confidence, which is also fun.

881
01:13:28.960 --> 01:13:32.800
But thank you so much for being
on the show, and congratulations on

882
01:13:32.840 --> 01:13:39.079
all the media attention that you're getting. It. It's positive and it's putting

883
01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:43.439
this whole phenomenon. I think for
the most part, I haven't one read

884
01:13:43.479 --> 01:13:46.159
one story that's really making fun of
the topic. There was there, I

885
01:13:46.159 --> 01:13:50.520
think somebody was saying they've been monitoring
these things a little closer than me.

886
01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:55.279
That there was one redio announcer who
was making a lot of fun of it.

887
01:13:55.359 --> 01:13:59.439
But you know that it comes with
the territory. Yeah, yeah,

888
01:13:59.479 --> 01:14:02.199
and you probably like me, even
when you talked to a radio an answer,

889
01:14:02.239 --> 01:14:06.880
it seems radio answers are more likely
to have fun. It's fun to

890
01:14:06.920 --> 01:14:12.159
have fun along with him. Really
well, absolutely, and this time you

891
01:14:12.159 --> 01:14:17.119
know it's because the Canada and the
United States have some elections going on.

892
01:14:17.159 --> 01:14:21.399
What I'd like to say, and
this is an absolutely true observation that I

893
01:14:21.439 --> 01:14:28.159
think we definitely have the proof that
the aliens have visited Earth and taken over

894
01:14:28.279 --> 01:14:31.479
the bodies and lines of certain people
here on this planet, because how else

895
01:14:31.479 --> 01:14:36.720
can you explain politicians. M That's
a very good point. And on that

896
01:14:36.840 --> 01:14:42.640
note, in this election season,
we'll leave it at that. Thank you

897
01:14:42.720 --> 01:14:46.920
so much. Thank you all right, thank you so much to Chris Rukowski

898
01:14:47.079 --> 01:14:51.239
for being on the show. Really
interesting stuff. I think he does some

899
01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:57.479
great work. We were so happy
to have him at the UFO Congress this

900
01:14:57.560 --> 01:15:01.079
last year or this year, just
if you months ago. He did a

901
01:15:01.119 --> 01:15:05.079
great talk. And by the way, you can get that talk on DVD

902
01:15:05.159 --> 01:15:09.680
by going to our website. You
can go to the store and find that.

903
01:15:10.000 --> 01:15:15.399
Also, we do have a video
portal, so streaming video service for

904
01:15:15.800 --> 01:15:21.520
less than a price of a DVD. You can go subscribe to this video

905
01:15:21.600 --> 01:15:28.600
portal and have access to all of
the lectures. So we don't have all

906
01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:34.840
of the twenty six twenty sixteen UFO
Congress lectures on that streaming service yet,

907
01:15:35.119 --> 01:15:41.119
however we will soon, like within
the next couple of weeks, and in

908
01:15:41.159 --> 01:15:44.560
fact, we have most of them
up already. We have a lot from

909
01:15:44.600 --> 01:15:47.479
twenty fifteen, and then we have
all of them from some of the other

910
01:15:48.039 --> 01:15:53.039
conferences like twenty ten, twenty eleven, so we have twenty. We have

911
01:15:54.039 --> 01:15:59.760
tons and tons of lectures available on
this streaming service. So I would highly

912
01:16:00.039 --> 01:16:02.960
commenda it's cheaper than Netflix. It's
it's a good deal. You can go

913
01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:09.039
on subscribe and then have access to
tons and tons of lectures. We've got

914
01:16:09.079 --> 01:16:13.680
exclusive lectures that you know, no
one's ever had before. Bob Lazaar,

915
01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:20.640
for God's sakes. We've got Jacques
Vallet. We have you know, Congressman

916
01:16:20.720 --> 01:16:29.239
Cook, the congressman from Utah who
was at the citizen hearing for Disclosure,

917
01:16:29.720 --> 01:16:33.439
who was convinced that UFOs are a
real phenomena. So he talks about why

918
01:16:33.479 --> 01:16:39.760
he believes that we have officials from
France and from Chile and all over the

919
01:16:39.800 --> 01:16:43.159
place. Just some incredible lectures.
So you've got to check that out.

920
01:16:43.359 --> 01:16:45.279
You can find it all at open
Minds dot tv. By the way,

921
01:16:45.279 --> 01:16:53.520
you can find Chris's stuff at UFO
rum dot blogspot dot com. UFO Rum

922
01:16:54.399 --> 01:16:58.960
apparently Chris likes rum. No,
I'm kidding. I think it's probably U

923
01:16:59.039 --> 01:17:06.159
forum is uh. Actually the it's
probably an accurate acronym. I mean,

924
01:17:08.279 --> 01:17:13.880
but U f O r U M
dot blogspot dot com is a U r

925
01:17:14.039 --> 01:17:17.239
L, so it's easy to remember
UFO rum. Uh. It's called ufology

926
01:17:17.520 --> 01:17:24.720
research. You can also look up
Chris Grukowski ufology research and you'll find it.

927
01:17:24.800 --> 01:17:27.439
But yeah, he's got a lot
of info there. You can find

928
01:17:27.520 --> 01:17:30.840
the Canadian Report there as well.
But yeah, like I said, he's

929
01:17:30.920 --> 01:17:35.960
all over the media, so he
it's funny. He's all o our Facebook

930
01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:42.359
too, so you can find him
on our Facebook Open minds UFO News the

931
01:17:42.439 --> 01:17:47.680
group making comments and adding stuff.
And it's kind of funny talking to him

932
01:17:48.479 --> 01:17:54.479
because about these UFO cases, because
he's so serious about his work, whereas

933
01:17:54.720 --> 01:17:59.079
he's just kind of a goofy guy
overall. He likes making jokes and having

934
01:17:59.159 --> 01:18:03.239
fun, just a real cool guy. I really like Chris Rukowski. In

935
01:18:03.279 --> 01:18:11.720
fact, his talk at the Symposed
or at the UFO Congress was Canadian UFOs

936
01:18:11.760 --> 01:18:17.199
A. So he does say A. It's not a you know, just

937
01:18:17.520 --> 01:18:23.800
a mythology or just a legend that
Canadians say A. They say it often.

938
01:18:23.840 --> 01:18:26.199
In fact, this reminds me of
a story that I'm going to share

939
01:18:26.239 --> 01:18:31.279
with you. I remember getting a
call from like a telemarketer or something like

940
01:18:31.319 --> 01:18:34.319
that, or maybe I was calling
customer service, it's probably more likely,

941
01:18:34.800 --> 01:18:39.319
and the guy kept saying A.
So I said, are you from Canada?

942
01:18:39.600 --> 01:18:41.840
And he said yeah, how did
you know? And I said,

943
01:18:41.840 --> 01:18:45.680
well, you've said A several times
and he said, really I did,

944
01:18:45.720 --> 01:18:47.079
And I said yeah, you've said
at least three or four times. He's

945
01:18:47.119 --> 01:18:54.359
like, I've tried, like he's
consciously tries not to say A. And

946
01:18:54.439 --> 01:19:00.000
he actually thought he had kicked the
habit of saying A. And I unfortunately

947
01:19:01.319 --> 01:19:04.159
let them know that, you know, you got some work to do.

948
01:19:04.239 --> 01:19:09.560
You're still saying A. So but
Canadians are great, They're some of that.

949
01:19:09.760 --> 01:19:15.399
They're known for being nice people,
so that's not a bad reputation to

950
01:19:15.600 --> 01:19:23.479
have. So another show in the
can I hope you enjoyed yourself. I

951
01:19:23.640 --> 01:19:28.199
certainly did, as I always do. Thank you so much to Caleb Hanks

952
01:19:28.199 --> 01:19:33.119
for the opening and close music.
Thank you to Martin Willis for talking to

953
01:19:33.239 --> 01:19:39.960
us about UFO News and joining us
for that section. That's always a lot

954
01:19:39.960 --> 01:19:45.920
of fun. Be sure to check
out Openminds dot tv for all of the

955
01:19:45.920 --> 01:19:49.119
news that we talked about and more. Of course, we add UFO news

956
01:19:49.119 --> 01:19:55.399
there daily. Also, you can
find our UFO Report, which is our

957
01:19:55.439 --> 01:19:59.159
YouTube video report that we do weekly. We do have a new one up

958
01:19:59.239 --> 01:20:04.159
that we just posted on Friday about
the FAA Report where you can see some

959
01:20:04.199 --> 01:20:09.199
pictures and maps and stuff like that
on the video, so check that out.

960
01:20:09.680 --> 01:20:12.600
We do have some other UFO cases
on there. We'll have a new

961
01:20:12.640 --> 01:20:17.239
one coming up this Friday. And
we always have some UFO videos on YouTube,

962
01:20:17.279 --> 01:20:21.239
so that's something new that we're doing. We're posting these little vignettes,

963
01:20:21.279 --> 01:20:26.880
these little videos on some of the
archive photos that we have in our archives,

964
01:20:26.920 --> 01:20:30.439
and these are some great cases.
These are cases from before photoshop even

965
01:20:30.520 --> 01:20:35.000
existed that are really unexplainable. Some
of them are very strange, and they're

966
01:20:35.039 --> 01:20:38.720
from all over the world, so
you've got to check those out. You

967
01:20:38.760 --> 01:20:41.720
can find them on our YouTube,
or you can find all of this at

968
01:20:41.760 --> 01:20:46.239
open mindset TV or in our Open
Minds email newsletter. So if you're not

969
01:20:46.319 --> 01:20:49.680
subscribed to our email newsletter, you
need to do that. You can go

970
01:20:49.760 --> 01:20:53.920
to our web page open mindsat TV. On the upper right, you're going

971
01:20:54.000 --> 01:20:58.640
to see a blue box. It's
unmistakable that says email newsletter and you can

972
01:20:58.720 --> 01:21:02.199
just add your email address to that
and that way, even if you forget

973
01:21:02.319 --> 01:21:06.079
your life gets busy and you don't
have time to check our website or the

974
01:21:06.199 --> 01:21:10.520
radio show or any of this,
you'll get an email that reminds you,

975
01:21:10.880 --> 01:21:14.279
hey, here's some of the cool
stuff, some of the cool stories and

976
01:21:14.399 --> 01:21:16.880
cool interviews. That we've done in
the last couple of weeks. So it

977
01:21:16.920 --> 01:21:19.840
helps keep you up to date because
I know how it is. I get

978
01:21:19.840 --> 01:21:26.600
really busy and sometimes just life runs
away with you and your time seems to

979
01:21:26.640 --> 01:21:30.319
go. So at least you'll still
get that hit of what's going on in

980
01:21:30.359 --> 01:21:34.079
the UFO world. Thank you all
so much for joining us. I have

981
01:21:34.239 --> 01:21:40.159
some great interviews lined up for the
next couple of weeks, so be sure

982
01:21:40.239 --> 01:21:44.199
to join us. It's going to
be a lot of fun. In fact,

983
01:21:44.239 --> 01:21:47.720
we've got coming up Robert Hastings.
He studies UFOs and nukes and he

984
01:21:47.760 --> 01:21:51.319
has a new documentary out. We're
going to be writing about this next week

985
01:21:51.319 --> 01:21:57.720
and talking to him about this because
this is really important and great stuff.

986
01:21:57.840 --> 01:22:01.800
We've got Rich Hoffman, the director
for Alabama moof on. He also works

987
01:22:01.800 --> 01:22:05.640
on a lot of stuff like the
Homeland Security video, a lot of really

988
01:22:05.680 --> 01:22:09.399
important stuff, so we'll be talking
to him, and we'll be talking to

989
01:22:09.479 --> 01:22:14.520
some people about abduction research. A
PhD who you know, believes there's something

990
01:22:14.520 --> 01:22:18.439
to this phenomena is working with a
group to investigate. So we've got a

991
01:22:18.479 --> 01:22:23.800
lot of really cool stuff coming up, so stay tuned. But I want

992
01:22:23.840 --> 01:22:27.119
to thank the most. I want
to thank you all for listening. Thank

993
01:22:27.159 --> 01:22:30.680
you so much for listening. It's
wonderful to have you here every week,

994
01:22:31.079 --> 01:23:25.119
and we will talk to you soon. Audio Smooth Chachos, your emotionless sound glass