The podcast modified season, two episode four. How are you all? It
' s an honor, it' s a pleasure. Really. It'
s late, back to account rebooting these podcasts for everyone. The opinions expressed
by Chayo Busquets are supported by his extensive experience as a family therapist and in
the previous analysis of the cases presented here, welcome, this is Chayo with
you. We begin to welcome all good start of the week, hoping that
they have spent an extraordinary weekend. And clearly, clearly, we are in
a difficult tense time, which generates more is three in one than in another.
But the truth is that today, even if it is for nothing,
it is a political program, given the political environment in which we find ourselves
and in the electoral environment, today we brought a great someone to whom you
love very much, Dr Eduardo Calixto, Eduardo welcome, a taste, very
good afternoon, chacha in a hug and you will say good. But then,
what they' re going to talk about, why you' re warning
us this good, because we' re going to talk to him just about
how our brain works, why we radicalize our ideas, why we can get
to the point of getting angry, fighting to break interpersonal relationships, just because
someone doesn' t agree with us in our ideas. And so, given
the climate in which we find ourselves, that' s where we' re
going to understand from. Eduardo Calixto is a researcher in medical sciences, head
of department and medical area at the National Institute of Psychiatry. Ramón de la
fuente. He has a degree in medicine from the Faculty of Medicine of UNAM.
He has a PhD in basic biomedical research from the Institute of Cellular Physiology
and so he could follow me. He has specialities and things in different parts
of the world, in different universities and get ready because today we' re
going to understand how our brain works when we become radical. We' re
talking here with Eduardo Calixto and the subject. The subject is a hot topic,
because, obviously, I asked Eduardo to talk about all these polarizations in
ideas, clearly because of the context in which we are developing, because we
are very few days away from the elections and because the very tense atmosphere of
personal positions that everyone has and that gave me the idea that we could talk
about this. But this applies to any idea, uh within a couple relationship,
how ideas can be polarized within the relationship between siblings, between friends,
between colleagues in ns work. I mean, apply for everything. But,
clearly, in this context, Eduardo is perfectly understood that this is an all
- embracing theme. What happens to the universal brain in every way, every
culture. This is nothing more than us. This can be seen anywhere in
the world that has a brain and has the ability to generate forty- eight
thoughts per minute. That' s what he thinks of our bosom. My
God makes two thousand one hundred and sixty decisions a day. It is able
to generate a resource where we have brain structures that pay more attention to the
negative, to what we consider negative. OK, so your point of view
may not be the one I have. And then, at that moment,
I get hooked on something called cognitive dissonance. I tell you look you know
what and here over there. And then I say to you five times eight,
forty- seven not And then your polteas and tells me to wait,
eduard, five times eight in not those forty- seven. Don' t
wait if it' s forty- seven, look at that point. And
if someone behind me or next door tells you if cha I am forty-
seven, you start to doubt. You have a situation where you say don
' t wait for me. This is the conflict we have. First of
all, we have learned from the situation we recognize, but there is also
a process to which, little by little and after commercials, we can talk
about what our brain is, generates, elaborates and, of course, project
you are. It happens to all of us. It happens to all of
us. You are not out of it are many messages that have been coming
to the question that I was asking you about how much lecturing you are with
people who have ideas different from yours and I set as an example the political
stance and very interesting what I read to you this eduardo, because you have
to try not to get hooked, not exact or flat. I' m
not tolerant, I' m passionate, or I' d better be quiet,
that is. But at the end of the day, there' s
trouble or there' s no mess. Yes, there is a clear need
for willpower to come into play to try to contain ourselves and to accept and
duty and to provoke and also understand it. Here are two essential points.
One hormone, a wonderful hormone called oxytocin, and or nine amino acids that
makes one person put on each other' s shoes. What we call empathy
is to equalize in the understanding that oxytocin generates that feeling of being part of
a group. I don' t say openly when one person develops oxytocin,
the other person is more tolerant. I' m independent if he' s
my relative, if he' s a collaborator, or if I get the
feeling that, because we agree on many of the ice creams. If there
are affections, we' ll be saying for your sake. But this also
involves that there is a region in our brain that is called Singulo and Insula
Giro. Two brain structures that are constantly evaluating, as we are speaking,
elaborate prosody. This is very interesting. It' s not the same as
I did Thanks for inviting me. Echeyo to Joye, thank you for inviting
me to Joya. Then you' d say, Eduardo, what happens to
you because you get angry, you get angry. So I speak not in
interpretation in less than seven hundred milliseconds makes the brain automatically change the way it
interacts. Finally, this point, which I find incredible, is also the
level of stress that we all handle when we have a certain level of high
cortisol and when we have not adapted it. If I come and tell you,
hey, I have a problem, Eduardo, I' m allowed.
My problem is stronger than yours. At that moment I feel displaced and automatically
and my next, my future collaborations or interactions, with you automatically is the
limit. So to see the biological, to see the social and psychological veil
involves a lot in this, undoubtedly to see Eduardo, then you told us
about oxytocin, not and how the tone of voice impacts and generates reactions.
Yeah, okay, it' s still in terms of radicalization. Nobody,
that, nobody' s bad in their own movie. We all create an
idea of what a good flake and we are fully convinced because absolute truths I
have lived and built them. I am and live in my brain. So
I can' t allow anyone to say that they' re right about something
that I' ve lived through that I' m aware of and that I
' ve still witnessed that circumstance. In this context, and there are very
well- developed studies in relation to the fact that males with more testosterone are
more stubborn. Okay, we keep this process of saying what you' re
telling me more is not right. We generate more biases men, we are
more reluctant to change compared to situations where women can change, they can identify
even the moral pain or condition upon which one can change. The great majority
of these polarizations that we have seen throughout the world, in the history of
our country, it is very clear that when there is suffering, there is
a catastrophe, a natural problem, we change totally in our positions. If
it' s wonderful and I' m very sorry to say what when there
' s a hurricane, there' s no earthquake. That' s where
we change and there' s no color we are or who we represent oxytocin
and the natural process that human beings have. If without a doubt, it
is now true that the polarization of ideas exists everywhere. However, for example,
at the moment, if I feel polarization, I do not know if
it is because it is the present moment, but I feel the most extreme
polarization. What stimulates polarization to become stronger. Of course, on the one
hand, the need to be right, on the other hand, the imposition,
on the other hand, the sense of power and control. The brain
loves that. How you enjoy the fact that I tell you one thing that
you keep good to me, you' re right. I tell you when
there is a terrible conflict, only since you are very careful and you don
' t want to bring that up for discussion long enough, that you have
to dress up as a cloth, a label or health to say you'
re right. This is an essential point of the brain. That is why
he discusses and therefore considers this, this situation, this condition, it has
been deeply rooted since we are the skilled homos, in condition of a message
and a verbal context to carry it daily eduardo. You mentioned the word fresh.
Yes, no, and how he builds a brain bias, but how
he does it, he builds it from the first stages in life, the
first, the first biases that we have appear since the seven eight nine years
where, no, we don' t ask, we don' t question.
It' s a way we learn it and gradually this is generating neural
networks. We call it neuronal plasticity, which you consider to be correct.
We have one of those wonderful pretty ones, look at you, like I
said. Please and thank you, ok then turn around and say look what
a nice boy. But if this is going to South America, you tell
them clear commands turning around they tell you that you' re saying no that
I sent you as Mexican, what you' re doing. The vast majority
of us do what the will of the vast majority preceded many of our things
that we think about and it is very interesting because we usually repeat what happens
most often at home and we do not question it then. Before this,
I have to say that many of the times, even as we think when
we see that this contrasts with a situation where there is generalization of we are
in the office or in the school. We often question many of our questions,
but I have to say there are three wonderful studies. Nothing more.
I' m gonna tell you right now O and Joya' s friends who
are sitting down. There are seven people sitting in an office before they all
agreed and one person arrives and there is a seat, sits down and three
minutes later they all get up. The person who arrives sits down and sees
them get up. He knows no doubt and it almost takes 20 seconds to
stand up. He doesn' t know why he stood up, but he
assumes he had to do what others want. Hey on the street. That
happens to us if a group of people start turning to a certain place,
because something happened we all turned around. If, in general terms, these
biases learn us to do even say with musical jingles or with a situation when
you go to the super see a brand and say good, because you always
do. So, why do you buy that and the story of Grandma'
s, when you go to the rice, with the tail, with the
fork and they say after other generations, why did it to Grandpa, because
in his house there were no spoons this circumstance so often that it seems so
simple, and they are learning circumstances that we take every day and that we
generate those biases and that is the way that I, to you I can
give arguments of what I have lived and consider it as a truth so free
that we feel and so determined that we are and that we can change them
is the beautiful thing. It' s also a human brain that can change.
What happens then with ideas, especially those that generate so much passion if
there is no way to change them, because we can, if we can
change them. It has shown us throughout the evolution of our species, we
are able to mutate, change, transform it as long as it is a
constant work. The process of modifying neural networks takes 28 to 30 days.
So, when we modify and we identify that we can change the way we
interpret or decrease a lot of the events that are strikingly conflicting me. If
we can do it. Therapy, that' s why it works, magnetic
stimulation, transcanning, that' s why it works. But there must be
disposition on the part of the person who does not necessarily change it. But
if you question yourself and be aware that this is generating conflicts, you may
not not not not in favor of others, but perhaps modify the emotional and
cognitive response with which he sometimes breaks and rises and generates many conflicts. As
we differentiate or can differentiate the brain level of brain functioning, which is to
have a posture in front of something when you have already radicalized the posture and
there is no longer anything that allows you to even self- question yourself,
you are so certain that there is no longer the benefit of the doubt,
as it is said by burning notice that those thoughts rar quickly jump you in
less than a minute. No, because it' s immediately what traps the
real process. Without realizing that every time we think of an idea and as
much as it is rooted, we are modifying it. Our memories are not
videos, they change nothing else. I want to tell you with this,
dear friends of Joya, that forty- six percent of what you are thinking
is nothing more real. It' s practically over half of fifty- four
percent. He' s not loyal like what happened. We' ve edited
it, we' ve changed it, we' ve modified it. That
' s why sometimes you turn around and say hey it wasn' t like
that. Uh, to see who saw it you and I then let me
say, so you say, not that' s already changed. I hate
it, because it' s the function that we edit, that I always
want to feel still and even if I was guilty to have the justification of
why it happened. And when I am the true and real possessor of truth,
to say that you have never understood me or how complex we are.
I' m going to ask the question anyway, because they' re doing
it here, although I think you already gave me the answer, why some
people, despite seeing the contradictions that might come before a situation, still hold
their idea. In the same way, there are two fundamental factors. One,
the process of how they develop and how they have built that thought that
learning and what they project with it, that is, it said Anstein,
it was more difficult to change a person by the way of thinking that the
expression of a gene doesn' t imagine that it speaks of how sometimes difficult
it can be to change the way of thinking, because it is in the
cognitive process of not doing it. This is my absolute truth. And the
second is emotion. The more excited we are, we release a neurotransmitter that
makes us take away logic and congruence. It seems like a paradox, the
same one with which we fall in love, with which we are happy,
we also get angry. It is called dopamine, and this neurotransmitter, when
more active and more concentration increases, decreases the intelligent part of the brain.
That' s why a discussion where they' re already angry, the two
of us, there' s gonna be no way to agree. It'
s the worst time to be able to make an argument. Wow wow that
phrase you said, I think it' s pretty important. The more emotional
I' m less willing to be involved, the more we' re going
to be totally modifying an idea. So if I was passionate about something that
' s why you' re saying so much you' ll want to choose
a football and politics you shouldn' t talk about, because there' s
so much excitement involved that that' s what makes it totally difficult. That
' s why we were right to talk about a situation that excites me so
much and changes me to the way I speak and prosedia think. If you
' re smart to say it, you have to be careful. The dopa
mna has already risen and will no longer listen to us waw. We'
re back and educated. Evidently, in order to reach agreements, people need
to be able to have openness to each other' s ideas and to each
other' s trends. How we educate our children, our teenagers or we
educate ourselves to win, because nothing forces me to that if I listen to
you, I have to think like you but to win out, to go
making my context of knowledge and information wider, that skills are the ones that
we have to educate, direct communication and know, listen, know how to
listen and pause for you to talk to me and understand. What you'
re telling me in the specific context of I' m going to be empathetic,
because you' re going to give me at the same time that I
communicate with you and don' t interrupt me, because the truth is wonderful
that we can take that wonder. Second, don' t provoke and more,
when we' re younger or when you feel like being as you ask
yourself ah sure, I can induce you to hear is that what you'
ve told me before and notice I' m going to start saying that it
' s not true, by the way you' re denying my entry process
that we don' t have these, you don' t agree with me.
But you already said it' s not true in the context of constant
denial, not aggressive passive look. I was going to bring you something,
but I didn' t bring it to you anymore because you always get angry.
So you didn' t bring it to me, not to stop me
from asking for aj and I' m going to throw myself on the floor
so you can get me up. Not then how you turn around and say
that I victimize myself so much that provocation of being saying that I have to
make you feel guilty about something without first or feel sorry for something. And
finally, and one of the basic elements is authenticating emotion. That thing he
' s got is called anger. That' s what he' s got
It' s called sadness. What you have is really a passion for what
you' re doing, because the great majority of us tell them and forgive
them and for the tone and don' t get angry not luris, then
you say no. Then that' s all. I was hoping you'
d tell me to be happy, so I' d run out and hug
everyone. Generally speaking, we have to recognize that a person cannot last for
more than fourteen minutes. The brain doesn' t have the capacity to do
it. If we' re going to get angry, not over thirty-
six minutes, because that talks bad about mental health. And if I'
m going to stress, no more than ninety minutes, because because ninety-
one minutes, as a football game, something is already passing me my memory
with your term. You' re charging me that I don' t remember
all that. So, even identifying the emotion you' re stressed out.
You allow me or you know we' ll fix it later. But as
long as you' re saying this emanates from an emotion we can' t
fix. The problem with the emotion he was born with. That is a
fundamental point. Eduardo. This whole context is not creating climates and that intensifies
emotions, because I was saying good to see you. Let' s talk
about emotions then, because clearly we think that ideas and emotions are completely separate
and in separate departments, but from what I' m seeing, they live
together and sometimes they' re sleeping next to one and you don' t
realize. Emotions are fundamental because they increase the process of cognition memory. Ok
if I ask you what you did on 19 September of the year two thousand
seventeen Edvards is the day of the Tremor, yes, but what you did
on 28 January this year. Except that something very emotional has happened, as
it is possible that we remember what happened seven years ago and what happened three
or four months ago, does not happen this wonder of how emotion reminds us
more has a basic principle and is that emotion generates a better learning, generates
memories more, stronger and more forceful for good and sometimes not also clear,
then they are behind phobias, they are transparent from the post- traumatic stress,
they are behind the grudges. There are times that you ask him today
because you like him so much your uncle ol tells you because it is already
nice, because precisely because one considers himself sometimes basic that and that is a
process that in Dirty, that manipulates, that is generating some kind of already
cognitive behavioral processes. That' s why emotion, when we know them here
and know how to mention them, is a wonderful thing. The one point
five percent of the world' s population has the exi thymia. Alexitimia means
I don' t know what emotion I have. I don' t know
if I want to cry? I don' t know if I want to
laugh? I don' t know if I' m feeling bad about this
and one turns around and says good if you don' t know you'
re not the whole ru was stronger. Between seven and fourteen years there was
a very strong trauma, a very strong violence that changed the cognition and how
these brain areas were connected. So, it' s very important maybe to
talk to the child, to the young man and tell him what you have
that anger, but you have to understand that. What you have is a
very great happiness and understanding that all self- limit and those that are the
fastest self- limiting. It is happiness, for example, the feeling of
feeling good. And if I tell a joke, several times the joke doesn
' t work anymore. The joke works once or twice, four times you
say hey no parale. The same joke is seven times not anymore. I
like that kind of interaction. You have to understand them. So the message
is to know, to carry an emotion to better consolidate cognition. It'
s an exaber art, it makes you laugh and sometimes you have to think
about it. And that' s why, when a movie came out and
made us laugh, crying thinking are the best movies, but it was a
churro. It doesn' t matter I mix three emotions and at that time
it was worth the two hours of cinema. Wo bien, because we arrived
practically at the end of the program and I would have one last question to
ask you, Eduardo, why we tend to attack the other one who thinks
different. Instead of arguing, there is an evaluation that passes from our brain,
because our logic and our congruence, that the most intelligent part in our
brain, that the prefrontal cortex is the one that projects a lot of ours
into our daily life, start to see that a person disagrees with me.
It changes my way of speaking more differently than the way I speak and aggression
starting verbally later with physical language and eventually and threatening. It' s beyond
that process because it makes us angry. We base this process on it because
we believe that this is how things work, because they give us more attention
and that circumstance of everyday life, we have to recognize that it is learned
m is not so much we that we have done so in part because we
have passed a critical stage with that violence and that they made us understand we
represent and we present it again the victim. Now he becomes a victimist and
then interestingly. Many of these patterns are inherited, but with a scar.
I always say it neurobiologically. This needs to be recognized and this is very
common for men. Males have as much as seventy- five percent greater the
mit to the brain, a brain structure that makes us recon not being who
we are and we are made the males to impose much on what we do.
I say this very carefully, because this can lend itself to a misinterpretation
drawn from context. The average male loves to be right and to justify it,
but when I do not find this justification, he does so with violence
with the aggression of threat. Now, well, the idea of this program
and I thank you infinitely, is that we understand more how we work than
if and when it' s worth it that if you' re going to
end a relationship with someone of the kind it is, it' s for
good reasons and nothing more because of a lack of knowledge and a bad management
of emotions and a little respect for the opinion of the other. At the
end of the day, everyone is going to generate their own ideas regarding any
topic. This is no longer about politics, it is about any subject,
but it makes us learn from ourselves to have better interpersonal relationships and better functioning
ours. So I thank you as always infinitely that you come for a ride
up there, because I know you don' t stay at all around,
but for me it' s an honor and a privilege a lot. I
thank you infinitely and I want to tell you that I am going to meet
this gentleman here on Friday at a conference that I will then tell you about,
because there is a Congress and he will open and if you see,
how people receive it. Well, we have a pleasure to do us the
honor of attending the program. We listen to each other tomorrow at 1:
00 p m, in more than Chayo with you until then Audio Center