WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.719 --> 00:00:10.439 Hey, welcome back to another episode of the Ruby Rogues podcast. This week, 2 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:14.320 I'm your host, Charles max Wood, and I am talking to Ayush 3 00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:21.480 Nuwatia. Did I get anywhere close on your name? Yeah, coming to 4 00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:26.239 us all the way from London, and yeah, I ran across i USh. 5 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:30.199 I don't remember if we bumped into each other over something else, or 6 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:34.000 if I reached out about the rails and hot Wire codex or something else. 7 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:38.119 I've been getting into hot wire quite a bit. Most of what I've done 8 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:43.679 is uh, stimulus, but I'm starting to pick up turbo and I'm definitely 9 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:47.079 interested in seeing what strata can do for me. But yeah, so the 10 00:00:47.159 --> 00:00:55.000 codex, it looks like is is it a course or is it a book? 11 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:57.439 It looks like it's a book. It's a book. Yeah, it's 12 00:00:57.479 --> 00:01:03.119 an ebook. Yeah, it a comprehensive ebook that I got it printed just 13 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:07.719 for keepsake. And it's honestly more like a brick than a book. Oh 14 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:11.840 wow, it's that big. Huh Yeah. Yeah, And it says it 15 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:15.359 says written by human not by AI, which, well you did it, 16 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:21.879 you did it in hard mode huh oh yeah, I don't believe in shotcuts. 17 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:26.519 Yeah. Well sometimes the shortcuts help. But yeah, I've seen people 18 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:30.599 that yeah they do they do most or they have AI do like ninety nine 19 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:36.439 percent of the work, and yeah they miss stuff, or the AI gets 20 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:40.799 stuff wrong that they don't catch, or any number of other issues. Yeah, 21 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:45.599 so you got to write the book you wanted, I guess, is 22 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:49.400 what I'm meaning at. So, yeah, pretty much like a lot of 23 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:55.799 the stuff in the book, I was actually learning while writing. And I 24 00:01:55.840 --> 00:02:00.680 find that the best way to learn is to do it on what what you 25 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:04.280 called hard mode, because you tend to go you tend to go down dead 26 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:07.520 ends, you go down other paths, and you make mistakes and you learn 27 00:02:07.639 --> 00:02:13.919 from all those things. You learn things you didn't expect to learn. And 28 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:16.400 for me, that's the right way to go about it because that gives you 29 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:22.599 a lot more context than just asking an EI a question and getting an answer 30 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:27.319 back that you can't actually be sure is accurate. Right. Yeah, I 31 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:30.479 like that too, the kind of the idea of learning as you go. 32 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:35.719 And I wrote a book about finding a job. I feel like things are 33 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:39.000 shifted some so I need to rewrite it. But it was the way that 34 00:02:39.039 --> 00:02:45.439 I found jobs for the first fifteen years of my career, and yeah, 35 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.759 it was interesting, like going back and seeing what was out there today and 36 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:54.800 how that worked and stuff like that, and so yeah, I feel that 37 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:59.960 quite a bit. But yeah, it's tough writing books a ton of work. 38 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:05.639 Yeah it was. I mean I thought it was going to be pretty 39 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:08.919 hard, and it was way harder than I imagine it could be. It 40 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:15.240 took about twice as long as I had anticipated it to take. Yeah, 41 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:21.439 it was quite an undertaking. It's it's definitely the most challenging thing I've ever 42 00:03:21.479 --> 00:03:25.840 done in my professional career, but so far it's it's also been the most 43 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:32.400 rewarding. So I took eight months completely off client work to write it, 44 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:36.319 oh wow, because I'm a freelancer and I was trying to do it side 45 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:40.280 by side with client work and it just wasn't working for me because it's quite 46 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:46.879 a Writing is quite an intense mentally intense task, and after spending like four 47 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:52.439 or five hours a day on client work, I just didn't have enough in 48 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:57.439 the tank to then put in some properles for writing. So I was like, 49 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:01.199 while I'm still excited about the idea, let me try and see it 50 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:05.199 through. I'll take three or four months off surely that'll be enough to write 51 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:11.599 it, And eight months later I still hadn't finished it. So it was 52 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:15.519 a bit of quite a big financial hit. But in the long term, 53 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:19.519 I think it's all been quite worth it because it's really helped my freelancing career 54 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:28.879 as well. That's awesome. So the book goes into all kinds of stuff. 55 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:31.920 I'm assuming it also does Turmo Native. It does. Yeah, so 56 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:36.399 it's well, I mean I would say this, but I think is the 57 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:43.439 most comprehensive resource out there on rails and hot wire because it covers all the 58 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:46.920 bits. Like it is primarily a book and how to build a rails app, 59 00:04:46.360 --> 00:04:53.199 but where it kind of does things that other courses and books don't is 60 00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:57.759 it firstly does quite a lot from ratch, so like I use very few 61 00:04:57.839 --> 00:05:00.360 gems, so like authentication, all that stuff is from scratch. And the 62 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:04.920 other thing is it teaches me. It teaches native apps as well, so 63 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:11.639 it's not just build a rail's website, it's build a rail's website, iOS 64 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:16.439 app and Android app. Oh wow, that's awesome. Yeah. We had 65 00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:21.639 Joe Masilotti on a while back to talk about Turbo Native and it looks really 66 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:26.639 terrific as far as it goes, and you know, I mean I've talked 67 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:30.160 to some people and they just want that native, full on native experience where 68 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:33.920 you know, you load the data onto the phone, you know, so 69 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:40.639 you're hitting APIs and then you're you know, loading native components and stuff like 70 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:46.639 that. But some apps, So the thing that I've been looking at is 71 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:51.439 building like a media app for podcasts and videos and stuff like that. I 72 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:57.639 guess you can have your media downloadable, you know, to the point where 73 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.120 you can watch it on the phone on more I guess of app, But 74 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:04.279 for the most part of people are going to stream it. I don't see 75 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:11.480 what the difference is, right, Yeah, Honestly, I think there is 76 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:20.240 a huge misunderstanding around the actual benefits of native apps. Like for some use 77 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:26.279 cases they are the best tool for the job, but for a vast majority 78 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:30.279 of use cases, a well executed hybrid app will do the job really well 79 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:35.040 because a lot of the arguments are usually here for native apps, as things 80 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:41.399 like offline use and just the fidelity of the UI and things like that. 81 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:46.399 But I used to be a native app developer, so I only switched to 82 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:51.480 rails in twenty twenty. Before that, I spent five years doing iOS and 83 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:58.000 Android development, and I worked on a few apps fort at an agency, 84 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:02.439 and then I worked for a company called answer Whys now known as YS and 85 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:09.000 our dirty little secret was that the apps were fully native, but they were 86 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:15.839 useless offline. They were completely and utterly useless offline. Like I can't comment 87 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:17.480 on the state of the app now, obviously because I left the company five 88 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:25.959 years ago, but when I worked there, every screen made like a minimum 89 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:30.160 of half a dozen API calls and then rendered native views based on those API 90 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:33.759 calls. Yeah, you got any screen, you will see your loading spinner. 91 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:38.720 It's not going to load instantly. There is no offline persistence or anything 92 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:43.920 like that. So if you were going to add all those things in a 93 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:47.920 native app, in my opinion, the level of complexity is about the same 94 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:54.439 as doing it in like a web context now because with things like service workers, 95 00:07:54.519 --> 00:08:01.560 you can make your web app and a hybrid app work offline just using 96 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:05.720 web technology, and I think the challenges and complexities of doing it that way 97 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:11.240 are very similar to the challenges and complexities of doing it the native way. 98 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:16.279 Now, there are great arguments for using native apps, and if you're going 99 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:20.720 to have like tight integration with stuff like GPS and all that kind of thing, 100 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:28.040 and you need like a really high fidelity UI which is not properly serviced 101 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:33.120 by web technology. Like my favorite example to reach for is Uber. If 102 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.360 you are building Uber which doesn't really need a web app, but it needs 103 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:41.440 top notch native apps because like there is no use for Nuber website, but 104 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:46.399 there like it's it's pretty much exclusively going to be used through mobile just because 105 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:50.639 of the nature of the app. That is, when you go fully native, 106 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:56.000 because your entire business depends on the mobile app and you need the best 107 00:08:56.039 --> 00:09:01.240 possible experience on it. But if you build like a a crowd app, 108 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.159 which I think, like, I mean, people won't like to admit it, 109 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:09.480 but eighteen ninety percent of weare apps are just crowd apps, then yeah, 110 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:13.639 true, Yeah, then a well executed hybrid app using something like the 111 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:22.440 Turbative very similar philosophy will do absolutely fine. Yeah that makes sense. That 112 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:24.000 makes a lot of sense. I kind of want to dive into more of 113 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:30.960 the hot wire stuff here. So the codex you actually build out an app. 114 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:37.039 Yeah, that's right. So, like you said, it's it's almost 115 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:41.279 more. Here's how to build an app with Rails. Yes, yeah, 116 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:46.399 it is pretty much that. Like the fact that it teaches native apps and 117 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.480 the fact that hot wire is a core part are all just kind of add 118 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:56.440 ons to it. The core proposition is, here are all the tools and 119 00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:05.200 techniques you need to build like modern rails applications. Because my vision for it 120 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:11.759 was to be the next step after the Rails tutorial by Michael Hortel, so 121 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:15.720 because that's how I learned Rails, and I think it's a rite of passage 122 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:20.519 pretty much for every Rails developer to work through that book. But after I 123 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:26.159 finished that book, I didn't know where to go next because it teaches you 124 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:31.120 the basics and it does that really really well, but you need a next 125 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.639 step, right, Like, I didn't really know where to go from there, 126 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:39.960 and I was learning quite a lot when I was just starting with my 127 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:46.600 freelancing career and stuff like that. So I thought I'd put my slightly unique 128 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:52.360 career trajectory of having specialized in mobile apps and then having switched to web to 129 00:10:54.240 --> 00:11:01.320 some use and write a book on how to build modern Rails applications and as 130 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:11.200 a unique selling point throwing the native side of things right. So yeah, 131 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:13.360 so I guess I guess. One of the other cases that I know some 132 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:18.960 people have to make is why then use hot Wire, Stimulus and friends instead 133 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:26.639 of something like React or view or Angular or one of these other heavier duty 134 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:35.320 front end systems. It's I'm not the best person to compare and contrast because 135 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:45.399 I've never used React, So my pitch for it would be React and stuff 136 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:48.480 have a very different philosophy. They kind of take away your apps front and 137 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:54.360 you don't really write htble and CSS, you right react goud and true. 138 00:11:56.039 --> 00:12:03.519 I don't really see the point of building model and web applications that way in 139 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:09.759 like with an all in kind of approach, because he just like, the 140 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:15.399 web platform gives you so much out of the box, and it just feels 141 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:18.399 like React as the philosophy has said, you know, we're going to take 142 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:20.519 everything to the web platform gives you, throw it out of the window and 143 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:30.960 then build it back but worse so. So that's just not a philosophy that 144 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:35.960 I kind of buy into. I like writing HTML and CSS, and I 145 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:45.000 like enhancing that with JavaScript. I believe that HTML is a declarative UI programming 146 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:48.240 language, which I know it's it's a statement that could start fights on the 147 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:56.120 Internet. But that's my stall and the reason like the hot Wire approach kind 148 00:12:56.120 --> 00:13:03.360 of fits my brain so well is that philosophically, it's exactly the same as 149 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:07.600 it was building websites like fifteen years ago, when it will all jQuery and 150 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:13.879 jQuery UI, when you still wrote HTML and CSS, but you had this 151 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:18.120 crappy procedural JavaScript code on top of that kind of doing all the dynamic stuff. 152 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.799 So we moved away from that and we have excuse me, much better 153 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:31.279 way to kind of structure JavaScript now, so we still retain the philosophy of 154 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:35.080 you build your core UI in HTM and and CSS and then you enhance it 155 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:41.519 with JavaScript with hot Wire. With Turbo especially, you can get so far 156 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:48.720 without writing any custom JavaScript at all. Just data attributes on HTML take you 157 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:58.720 so far because Turbo Drive in itself is just a huge performance boost because you're 158 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:05.639 not doing full page realer gerony reloading the body element. And now at Turbo 159 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:11.679 eight you also get like prefetching, so when the user hovers over a link, 160 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:15.879 it'll prefetch and cash the response, so when you click the link, 161 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:22.600 it's almost instantaneous the transition. And that's like without writing any JavaScript yourself. 162 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:26.720 At all, and then you throw in turbo frames into the mix, which 163 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:33.480 kind of lets you break the page down too smaller chunks and then update those 164 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:37.799 chunks independently of the rest of the page, again without writing any custom JavaScript 165 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:46.279 at all. You just get so so far with so so little. And 166 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:52.519 let's say you have certain parts of a page where it's really really interactive and 167 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:56.840 you really need to build out something complex, then you would probably just throw 168 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:01.200 in a JavaScript framework for that little a piece of like me, you're building 169 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:05.720 like a car configurator, which is a really complex piece of work, right 170 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:11.200 because it is lots of logic, lots of moving parts going about. So 171 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:13.919 for that little island on the page, you'd probably throw in a framework. 172 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:18.039 Like I couldn't tell you whether i'd pick React of You or whatever, because 173 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:22.240 I haven't used them, so I couldn't tell you what I would use. 174 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.080 I'd need to research it. But you would choose a framework and throw it 175 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:28.960 in for that tiny island and the page, But the majority of your website 176 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:35.759 would still just be using HTM and cs as just the way I think the 177 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:41.039 web platform was designed to be used, right. That's just my ty cents 178 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:46.240 and the whole thing I think we've gone down this rabbit hole of complexity that 179 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:50.320 we just need to go back from a little bit. Yeah, I'm just 180 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:54.799 going to add a couple of things because I've done some React and what I 181 00:15:54.960 --> 00:16:00.399 found is, yeah, I mean you talked about the complexity, and you've 182 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:06.279 talked about how it kind of takes over your page or takes over you know, 183 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:11.120 whatever you put it into. One thing that I found is that so 184 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:15.919 typically when I see people building a React application, what they're doing is they 185 00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:25.200 are essentially working off of something like Prisma or you know, some back end 186 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:30.480 API system that just delivers an API and then they build everything else on React. 187 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:37.120 And that makes sense from the standpoint of right, you're only learning one 188 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:41.440 system and so then you're building it out. I found the whole process of 189 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:48.120 putting together React components just to be really, really clunky. And you know, 190 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.279 there are things I like about the idea of JSX where you're putting your 191 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:59.440 effectively from the rail standpoint, you're putting your view, controller and model in 192 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:03.440 one file file. But what I found is that people tend to still complicate 193 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:07.000 that way more than it needs to be. And then the other issue is 194 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:12.200 is that, yeah, like you said, you're not really working in the 195 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:18.319 web medium anymore. You're working in the React medium. And what I've gotten 196 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:26.039 to love about Ruby and Rails and hot wire is that I just add stuff 197 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:27.640 in where I need it, I kind of enhance it where it makes sense, 198 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:30.880 and then you know, just kind of pull in the pieces where they 199 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:34.799 they tend to work well, and then I get to work in the web 200 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:41.039 medium. So exactly. Something that I kind of learned back when I was 201 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:48.319 a native app developer is that if you fight against the platform you're working with, 202 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.920 it's never going to go well. So especially like on iOS, which 203 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:57.200 I specialized in towards the back end of my stint as a mobile developer, 204 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:02.319 because and roads just too Leanna, I can't be bothered with this anymore. 205 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:10.279 An iOS, there was a proliferation of really complicated patterns, Like you know 206 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:12.240 how tech goers, right, things come in and out of fashion, so 207 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:18.880 there were it was just becoming fashionable to use these really complicated patterns, like 208 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:23.440 there's one called viper, which I load with an unbridled passion. Uh. 209 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:30.799 And all those things did was they fought against what the iOS platform gave you. 210 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:36.720 So like the iOS runtime has a lot of similar philosophies to Ruby, 211 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:45.039 like in terms of things like metaprogramming and quote unquote magic provided by metaprogramming and 212 00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:48.039 all these patterns came in and said that, you know, we're going to 213 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:52.160 fight against a platform that gives you all these things and rebuild all of these 214 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:59.319 ourselves by with these patterns and things like that. And it did my head 215 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:03.039 in because it just made simple codes so much more complex. And I've kind 216 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:08.400 of taken that learning into web development and said that if I ever find myself 217 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.599 fighting against the browser, I'm probably not doing something right. I need to 218 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:18.720 rethink my entire approach. And that's kind of where I am with the whole 219 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:22.119 reacting. I just feel that it fights the platform instead of working with it. 220 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:27.920 Yeah, that tension is definitely there. I agree with you. So 221 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:34.599 let's dive into what Rails and hot wire give you here, since I'm assuming 222 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:37.839 that's why most people who are listening are listening. By the way, we 223 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:42.519 have like sixty people on Twitter right now. I never say X because I 224 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:47.839 feel dumb saying X. So yeah, I still call it twitter as well, 225 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.680 so anyway, and everybody knows what I mean when I say Twitter. 226 00:19:52.799 --> 00:20:00.359 So anyway, So in essence, I think the thing we've talked about the 227 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:06.079 most is stimulus right on this show, just because I think it's kind of 228 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:11.759 the I don't know if it's necessarily the easiest to understand, but it's usually 229 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:17.400 what we're reaching for when we're trying to have some kind of custom thing on 230 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:22.440 our web page. Right, Yeah, exactly. Stimulus is the thing for 231 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:27.079 which you'll actually write JavaScript code yourself, because turbo is more just to something 232 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:32.880 you drop in and then you kind of call using data attributes in HTML. 233 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:36.559 Yeah, unless you want to customize something. So yeah, stimulus is where 234 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:41.799 you actually write JavaScript. Right. So I was going to say, let's 235 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:45.000 let's talk about Turbo here for a minute. So do you want to just 236 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.160 give people an idea of what turbo is and how it works? Yeah? 237 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:55.000 Sure. So Turbo's actually made up of three parts itself, turbot drive, 238 00:20:55.400 --> 00:21:03.119 Turbo frames, and Turbo streams. So turbot is like a natural successor to 239 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:08.000 the library turbo links, which if anyone has worked with reels for a number 240 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:12.880 of years would be familiar with. It kind of builds on a concept called 241 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:19.480 p jacks, which was I think pioneered by GitHub way back when So the 242 00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:26.359 core of turboat drive is that when you click a link, instead of like 243 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.880 letting the browser do what it do, it does which is goes and gets 244 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:37.319 the response, throws away the entire existing document, and then renders the response 245 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:45.000 that it got from the server. Turboat drive will intercept that link click and 246 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:52.319 it'll make a fetch request to the path, get the response, and then 247 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:57.880 just swap out the body element on the existing document for the one that it 248 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:03.319 got from the response, and it'll merge ahead. So you still your your 249 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:07.400 document still stays intact. If you're on a store some state on it, 250 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:14.240 you can. And it also helps with performance because you're not like throwing away 251 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:18.279 the entire page and then downloading less and stuff again, although I mean that 252 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:22.960 problem is a lot less obvious now with caching and HGTP too, but it's 253 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:29.359 still it's still there visually, it does make a difference when the entire page 254 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:33.440 isn't thrown away. And I think the biggest difference between turbot Drive and the 255 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:40.079 predeceassor turble links is that turbot Drive works with forms as well. So turbo 256 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:45.880 Links was exclusively for link clicks, but for turbot Drive, it does the 257 00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:52.480 exact same thing for form submissions as well. Right, And the one thing 258 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:59.359 that when I've found myself in discussions with people who only ever used React is 259 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.759 they say, oh, what if you want a persistent element on the page. 260 00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:06.519 You can't do that with this approach because it's still a multipage app. 261 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:11.039 And Turbo actually has an attribute called data Turbo permanent, so if you put 262 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:17.400 that on an element, that particular element will be persisted across page loads. 263 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:22.160 So like, so let's say you are you had like audio player or something 264 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:26.119 that was playing sound, but you wanted the user to be able to browse 265 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.160 your website while that was still playing. You just set this attribute on that 266 00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:36.720 element and it would just be retained. It would still be there across all 267 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:40.960 those multiple page loads. So you still have like a multipage architecture, but 268 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:45.799 you have the behavior of a single page application. So I think that's a 269 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:52.519 great, great approach to kind of just simplify your architecture. So that's like, 270 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:57.079 yeah, so that's like Turbo Drive. Turbo Frames kind of takes a 271 00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:04.279 similar concept but localize it to like smaller parts of the page. So let's 272 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:07.240 say you have a page with a lot of content. And then you have 273 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:12.039 a turbo frame on one small part of the page, so that turboframe is 274 00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:18.880 basically just a turbo dash frame htmltag which is implemented as a custom element. 275 00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:26.160 And then any link clicks or form submissions in that turbo frame will expect a 276 00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:30.000 corresponding turbo frame. So the I D of the of the frame that the 277 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:34.640 call is made from, it would expect an I D a turbo frame with 278 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:40.960 that same I D in the response. And then instead of replacing the entire 279 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:45.240 body element, it would just replace the contents of that one frame. So 280 00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:52.240 you can make very like uh, you can decompose your entire page into smaller 281 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:59.079 parts using turbo frames and then update just those parts. So that's just taking 282 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:04.400 the whole turbo drive concept and making it a bit more powerful. And just 283 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:11.440 these two things I think takes you so unbelievably far without writing any custom JavaScript, 284 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:18.680 right. Can I ask a couple of questions here on this because well, 285 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.240 for one, so turbo you said turbo drive, and I guess turbo 286 00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:27.519 frames as well work on both link clicks and form subeditions. Yes, so 287 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:32.920 I'm looking at the turbo page. So for example, it has like an 288 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:36.759 edit this message link, so if you click that link, it would just 289 00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:41.519 replace the contents of that frame with I'm assuming your rails just renders a partial 290 00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:47.359 with no layout and it just drops it in there. Yes, exactly, 291 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:52.519 So you can either yeah, just render the partial with no layout, which 292 00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:56.720 would be the more performing thing to do. And I think I think there 293 00:25:56.799 --> 00:26:07.119 is a help in the Turbo rails gem that does set the layout to falls 294 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:11.440 if it's a Turbo frame request, but I could be wrong there. But 295 00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:17.079 you don't have to do that because all the Turbo really wants in the response 296 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:19.559 is a Turbo frame with the with the matching I D. So you can 297 00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:26.200 have a full HTML document that you send back, but Turbo will only remove 298 00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:33.119 the corresponding Turbo frame and then replace that, so you can be right, 299 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:34.720 Yeah, you just got to get the idea, or you can sign whatever 300 00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:37.519 back from the server as long as it has a Turble frame with the I 301 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:41.839 D. Okay, that makes sense. So one other thing, and we 302 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:45.640 might dive into turbos streams here a little bit with it. But and I 303 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.960 have to admit, like like I said, I've done I've done a bunch 304 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:56.960 of stimulus freaking love it. It feels so easy to follow along with when 305 00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:00.200 I'm doing stuff. But yeah, Turbo's kind of new to me. But 306 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.920 I'm looking at this and I'm going this seems like I think I've done some 307 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:07.759 of this stuff with stimulus, not realizing that Turbo did it for me. 308 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:11.240 So one other thing that I have a question about, and this is something 309 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:17.440 I ran into last week. So I've kind of been looking for work lately. 310 00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:22.039 The contract I was working just slowed way way way way way down, 311 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:27.839 and so I applied to this other It was kind of a contract and they 312 00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:33.200 sent me basically I'm rambling, I'm talking way too long about this. Anyway, 313 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:37.799 they told me to build them a sample app, and I spent I 314 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:44.680 think three hours debugging rails, sending a Turbo stream request back when I submitted 315 00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:51.240 a form, and then not actually loading the page right when it got a 316 00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:55.599 response. Like I could see in the rail server that it was hitting that 317 00:27:55.720 --> 00:28:00.880 back end endpoint and that it was doing the work to you know, render 318 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:07.000 the other page, but it was right, it wasn't rendering the page. 319 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:11.400 And so I'm curious, is there something fundamental with like just maybe I had 320 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:17.640 the wrong idea on something or didn't understand something fundamental about how rails works with 321 00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:25.680 Turbo to manage forms that I did wrong, because eventually I just found I 322 00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:27.359 found the key word. I can't remember which one it is, but the 323 00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:30.640 keyword to just turn it off. I think it was remote false or something. 324 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:37.640 Okay, Yeah, So were you sending a turbo stream back from the 325 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:44.359 server or were you sending a full page? I don't remember it was requesting 326 00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:48.559 a turbo stream. It was showing up in the log as turbostream. Okay, 327 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:53.039 I don't remember if it was it was sending back. Because so Turbo 328 00:28:53.119 --> 00:29:00.319 has a requirement that on a firm submission you either render a turbot streams that 329 00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:07.079 has to have a mind type of turbous stream or I or you have to 330 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:15.000 redirect. You cannot you cannot render HTM and okay, so that that's a 331 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.160 feature of turbo streams. It's a it's a requirement of Turbo. So if 332 00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:22.880 you look at the Turbo docks, somewhere there is an explanation for it. 333 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:26.839 I can't remember. It's something to do with clicking back. I can't remember 334 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:30.079 the exact experts in it's in the docks. But yeah, you have to 335 00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:34.319 either render a turbot stream or redirect on a farm of submission. That's a 336 00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:38.799 requirement of turbot drive. Okay, so what is the turbo stream then, 337 00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:48.640 So turbo stream is also a custom elements or just turbo dash stream and it 338 00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:52.039 okay, hang on time out for a second. So when you're saying I 339 00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:56.359 needed to render return turbostream, I was still returning HTML. I was just 340 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:00.200 it needed to be in a turbo stream element. It needed to be in 341 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:03.920 a turbo stream element. I needed to have a mind type of whatever the 342 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:10.759 thing is, VND turbo stream whatever it is. The actual Yes, a 343 00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:15.599 turbo stream has to be in a turbot stream tag. That's what makes it 344 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.680 a turbo stream. And that kind of gives you what I what I describe 345 00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:23.119 in my book as a scalpel to make fine grained adjustments to your page. 346 00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:30.000 So, uh, turbot drive and turbo frames both have quite like general approaches 347 00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:34.400 to making updates. So you like either change the entire page or a whole 348 00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:38.640 portion of the peature. Let's say you want to target one tiny thing like 349 00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:44.079 a counter or something somewhere, and you want to change just that, So 350 00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:48.359 you would render a turbo stream with a replace action, and then in the 351 00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:53.880 content of the turbostream targe you put the new content and then turbo would I 352 00:30:55.640 --> 00:31:03.160 would use the target attribute of the term stream tag define the element you wanted 353 00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:07.960 to change, and then the action you define is replace. It will replace 354 00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:15.400 the targeted element with the contents of the turbostream tag. Now there are I 355 00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:19.279 think got seven or eight crowd actions that turbo streams give you out of the 356 00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:25.680 box. I think like a pend and replace and update. Can't remember all 357 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:29.720 of them, it's in the docks. So those kind of those are the 358 00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:33.960 updates you can make using turbo streams to very specific elements that you target using 359 00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:41.119 either an ID or a CSS selector. So you can make like really targeted 360 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:48.759 adjustments to your page. But it's quite easy to let things get out of 361 00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:55.359 hand with turbot streams because if you find yourself making quite a few updates, 362 00:31:55.839 --> 00:32:00.279 you're probably doing something wrong. It's really stuff that's really targeted, really fine 363 00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:04.640 grained, really one off that you kind of want to be making with turbo 364 00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:09.240 streams because especially now with Turbo eight. So I'm going to segue into Turbo 365 00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:13.839 eight a little bit, because everything we've spoken about so far has been in 366 00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:19.039 Turbo in some form or the other since Day one, which was Turbo Turbo 367 00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.519 came out with the version seven to match Rails's version, So that's a bit 368 00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:28.960 of counterintuitive, but I digress. A. Turbo eight has this new feature 369 00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:36.759 called page of fresh is using morphing. So a common pattern in Rails is 370 00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:43.200 you kind of make a change to an entity and then redirect back to where 371 00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:47.799 the user was. So let's say the user is on forward slash posts and 372 00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:53.640 you have an index of posts with like delete buttons, and the user clicks 373 00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:59.119 delete and then the controller action will redirect the user back to posts where they 374 00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:05.039 already were. But obviously what they'll see is that one post that they deleted 375 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.640 it should now be missing because it's been deleted. That's like it's a very 376 00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:15.000 small change on the page. So in the past, you would probably render 377 00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:20.599 a turbo stream that targets that particular posts entry. It will probably be like 378 00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:25.160 an ALI element or something, and it removes it from the dome, or 379 00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:30.759 you would do like a full page load, which is obviously more expensive and 380 00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:35.279 it's a bit jarring for the user as well, because like let's say it's 381 00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:37.119 a long list of posts, and the scroll like halfway down and then they 382 00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:40.039 click delete and you do a full page load, it will take you way 383 00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:46.039 back, right back up to the page right. So eight kind of attempted 384 00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:52.440 to solve this problem without adding any back end complexity, because if you use 385 00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:55.920 a turbo frame, you're adding more logic on the back end. So it 386 00:33:57.079 --> 00:34:04.920 uses a library called idiomorph and it uses that to just morph the new page 387 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:07.920 into the old page. So by that what I mean is it kind of 388 00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:14.320 makes it diff of the two domes and it only makes updates for the things 389 00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:17.440 that have changed. Right, So you can opt into this on a page 390 00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:22.360 by page basis with a meta tag. So now, if let's take the 391 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:28.119 same use case and you've opted into morphing page refreshes using the meta tag, 392 00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:31.480 you do the exact same thing on the server in the in the destroy action, 393 00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:36.159 you delete the post and you redirag back to the to the post index. 394 00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:43.000 H but on and on the server obviously you render the entire posts index. 395 00:34:43.559 --> 00:34:45.760 But now what turbo will do is because you've opted into morphing, is 396 00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:51.519 that it will diff the current dorm with the dormant gets from the server and 397 00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:55.079 then just morph the two so as a user, your scroll position will be 398 00:34:55.119 --> 00:35:00.719 retained and all you'll see is that that one post that you de it has 399 00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:09.320 been removed. So after this new edition, the use cases for turbo streams, 400 00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:14.559 I think, just drops down significantly, and you already really want to 401 00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:20.119 be using it very sparingly when there is no other option, because it's the 402 00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:23.199 kind of thing. It's the kind of thing that I think you'd refer to 403 00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:27.000 as a sharp knife in rails. I know that it's a phrase that you 404 00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:31.559 used quite a lot with both Ruby and rails, and you want to be 405 00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:36.599 using them when the time is right, and not just across the boat, 406 00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:39.320 because it's quite easy to make a mess, right, that makes sense. 407 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:45.280 Yeah, I was at Rails World last year when David I don't know why 408 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:52.679 I was calling David instead of DH but when David was showing us Turbo eight 409 00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:57.000 with that feature where I think what he did was he had like a conbind 410 00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:01.400 board and yes, and so he you know, he dropped in a new 411 00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:06.199 column and then removed it, and he showed the old behavior where when you 412 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:07.199 would do that, it would, yeah, would jump to the top. 413 00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.320 And then afterward he said, now it doesn't do that basically, so yeah, 414 00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:15.760 I think I think that was from horz Talk. Actually, he's the 415 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:22.440 guy who I think spearheaded the whole morphing effort, and I think that was 416 00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:27.800 the the use case for which it was developed and then extracted into turbos. 417 00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:31.679 I think that can band style interface in base Camp. And I think probably 418 00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:37.440 hate calendar as well, So I might have been hate calendar actually, but 419 00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:42.880 yeah, it was. It was That's the reason for which it was developed. 420 00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:47.000 So turbo links is or yeah, not turble links, turbome Turbo native. 421 00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:55.679 It's a wrapper around your web application essentially. Yes, So okay, 422 00:36:55.719 --> 00:37:02.000 let me zoom out a bit and explain exactly how debonative works. So there 423 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:10.000 are a few approaches to hybrid apps, because hybrid basically means you're mixing web 424 00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:15.239 technology with native technology and using both together. That's where the term hybrid comes 425 00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:20.000 from. A lot of apps do that. Though. We had an iOS 426 00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:24.239 show on this network for a long, long long time, went on hiatus 427 00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:29.519 in November of twenty nineteen, but that was one of the tricks if you 428 00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:35.400 had some UI that wasn't how do I put it, It wasn't exactly what 429 00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:40.920 Apple gives you in their UI kit, then yeah, a lot of people 430 00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:45.840 would pull in web technology and just seamlessly lay it in there to get what 431 00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:51.760 they wanted. So this isn't a new idea by any means. It's not 432 00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:57.960 a new idea. I think what derbonative does is just standardize, standardizes it 433 00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:01.760 a little bit. So actually gave a talk on this at a couple of 434 00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:08.840 conferences last year called native apps are dead, long lived native apps because it's 435 00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:16.000 I'm honestly astonished that the determinative approach isn't more widely used because what it does 436 00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:22.719 is it builds the backbone of your app natively, so all your the navigation 437 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:25.960 and stuff like that. And let's like, let's say you have a tap 438 00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:31.239 bar, which most apps do. Those are all built natively. You're not 439 00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:36.119 gonna get You're not going to get away from having to write swift cotlan. 440 00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:39.559 You're going to have to write some native code. You're going to have to 441 00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:46.840 have an excurt project and an Android Studia project. But what turbinative does is 442 00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:53.920 that instead of like rendering uh, instead of you recreating each view in native 443 00:38:54.000 --> 00:39:01.239 code within that kind of backbone that of the native elements, it renders web 444 00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:05.800 content, So you have your navigation bar at the top, you have your 445 00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:08.039 tap bar at the bottom, but in the middle where a content is, 446 00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:14.320 it's just a web view with HTML in it. And that I think is 447 00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:21.840 really powerful because stuff that's kind of just users expect out of a platform is 448 00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:27.199 just there. Like on iOS, when you kind of go forward through pages, 449 00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:30.880 you can just swipe from left to right to go back. Stuff like 450 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:34.599 that just works out of the box. iOS just gives you that kind of 451 00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:37.840 stuff out of the box, and since you're working again, you're working with 452 00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:44.760 the platform, you get all that stuff for free. So Turbonative just standardizes 453 00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:51.519 that kind of architecture so it when you start up a Terminative app, it 454 00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:59.480 will install itself that it's the Turboonative part of the library will install itself as 455 00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:04.239 an adapt on Turbo itself, which is the web part of things, and 456 00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:12.320 it kind of hooks into that whole mechanism to kind of trigger native code. 457 00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:15.280 So like let's say, when you tap a link in a Turbinative app, 458 00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:22.760 instead of just making a fetcher question and replacing the current body, Turbonative will 459 00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:29.280 now get the response, create another screen like a view controller, an ioas 460 00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:32.360 sort of fragment or Android and it will slide it onto the screen from right 461 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:37.519 to left, So that's like turbinative. The library does that for you, 462 00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:43.119 So that's kind of where it comes in. It's just kind of like adapter 463 00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:52.119 to help you build apps which render web content within this native frame, which 464 00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:55.000 I sometimes refer to as a custom web browser. So you're kind of just 465 00:40:55.079 --> 00:41:00.519 running your web app within a custom web browser that you've built yourself using native 466 00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:07.360 app technologies. Gotcha, So I guess a couple of other questions I have 467 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:13.079 are you know, just kind of the things that don't that aren't built into 468 00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:16.480 your application. So for example, what if you want it in in app 469 00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:22.679 purchases or well, let's just talk about in a purchase for a minute, 470 00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:29.639 right, So, because you have a native project, your app is basically 471 00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:32.599 still an expert project or an andro Studio project, and you are writing some 472 00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:38.920 Swift code or coughtland code, you have access to all the native APIs, 473 00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:45.719 right, so you can just write native code to do that. So like 474 00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:50.960 like in AP purchases, for example, Apple would have APIs for that, 475 00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:53.800 so you just write swift code and then you'd have some kind of way to 476 00:41:54.079 --> 00:42:00.360 communicate that web app, either you're hitting an API or some of that. 477 00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:06.239 Like obviously the exact architecture would depend on your use case. But because like 478 00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:10.280 the native side of things has not been like hidden away or abstracted away, 479 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:15.480 you can do anything native that you want. I got you. So let's 480 00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:19.599 say that I have a button on my application, and when you tap the 481 00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:23.400 button on the web page, it takes you to the stripe form. But 482 00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:28.880 on the on the native app, there's some way for me to trigger the 483 00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:34.159 native API that says this isn't in that purchase. So that's why Strata comes 484 00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:43.840 under the picture. So both iOS and Android have native APIs that let you 485 00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:53.039 communicate to and from JavaScript. So you can from JavaScript you can post messages 486 00:42:53.039 --> 00:43:00.719 a quote unquote post messages that are received in native code. So you can 487 00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:05.639 like call like whatever the method signature is dot post and send some Jason and 488 00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:12.280 then uh, a fully native native method in Swift or Cortland will be called 489 00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:16.360 with that Jason message that you that that you sent from JavaScript. And to 490 00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:21.800 go the other way, you can evaluate JavaScript within a web views from native 491 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:25.159 code. You can like literally call like web you' thatt evaluate JavaScript and pass 492 00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:30.079 in a JavaScript string which will be executed in your web page. So Strata 493 00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:37.880 takes this pathway and gives you an abstraction layer to communicate from web to native 494 00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:45.400 and vice versa. So it's built on top of Stimulus, So it's basically 495 00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:51.000 it gives you a concept of components. I think it's called a bridge component, 496 00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:57.599 which is which is a subclass of a Stimulus controller, and it gives 497 00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:05.639 you just some standard methods to send messages to native apps. So you would 498 00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:09.079 have a component. So you need to subclass bridge component and create a component 499 00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:14.760 for yourself on the web and then create a counterpart component in your native app 500 00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:20.039 using native code, okay, and then that using Strata. The two would 501 00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:22.800 communicate with each other like on a Podcast's kind of hard to go into the 502 00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:29.440 details because it's all get Curry, Curry, but that's basically the gist of 503 00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:32.920 it is you have fully native components and then the same thing on the web 504 00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:37.480 and then they communicate with each other. And that's how you can send messages 505 00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:42.440 from the web to native and back. So your exact use case, we 506 00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:49.400 can accomplish that with Strata. I gotcha. What about push notifications? So 507 00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:53.480 you would have to write some native code for that. You need to like 508 00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:59.920 register push notification token with your server and stuff like that. That's what it's 509 00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:02.760 it is fully native territories. I wanted to write about that in my book, 510 00:45:04.119 --> 00:45:08.000 but as I dug into it, we were going too far into fully 511 00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:15.119 native world and I wanted to stick to like just like Web in the book. 512 00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:22.440 So it's the same kind of technique as you would use in a native 513 00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:25.360 app. You do it the same way on the back end. Again, 514 00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:30.079 you just need to google, like how do I send Apple Push notifications from 515 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:34.199 a Rails app and follow the instructions. And I think Rails eight is actually 516 00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:39.559 going to have a framework called Action Notifier, which kind of healthy sid push 517 00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:45.760 notifications, I think, both on the web platform and on iOS and Android, 518 00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:51.280 So that should hopefully make life a lot easier. I feel like I 519 00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:52.639 lucked out that the other guys didn't show up, because now I can ask 520 00:45:52.760 --> 00:46:00.119 I got to ask all my dumb questions. So because yeah, I mean, 521 00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:02.559 this is all stuff that I've wanted to do for a long time that 522 00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:06.400 I just haven't done. Yeah, I'm not sure that there's a whole lot 523 00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:14.079 more necessarily that I need to dive into. Rails uses a lot of the 524 00:46:14.199 --> 00:46:17.400 at least Turbo by default. I don't know if it pulls in strata for 525 00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:24.679 anything, since it's a native bridge. But yeah, so let's say that 526 00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:30.000 you were going to build like a complete ecosystem on your Rails app, right, 527 00:46:30.039 --> 00:46:34.119 So you were gonna and the thing that I keep dreaming of is kind 528 00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:37.599 of a Netflix for developers, right, so it's, hey, you know, 529 00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:43.880 you've got all this content from all these series, shows, podcasts, 530 00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:46.239 whatever, right, and so you can come in and you can get any 531 00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:51.519 content that we've either created or licensed, right, And so you know, 532 00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:55.000 building the Rails app, and then you know, I can totally see doing 533 00:46:55.000 --> 00:47:00.159 something with say Turbo where you know, it's like you click the play this 534 00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:04.840 video button, right, and then it just you know, replaces parts of 535 00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:07.760 the screen with relevant stuff, or if it reloads it, right, maybe 536 00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:12.559 it just does Turbo drive and just you know, replaces the body. However 537 00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:15.320 I want to do that, you know, So I can see a lot 538 00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:20.639 of ways that I can make that do what I want. I'm pretty familiar 539 00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:25.039 with Stimulus, but I could build the native app right and just do Turbo 540 00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:30.719 Native and have it load up the video library. I guess one question I 541 00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:34.519 have is is, yeah, is there a way to do how would I 542 00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:38.639 do the offline mode? If somebody wanted to watch one of those videos they 543 00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:43.599 say this for later, right I'm getting on an airplane. Yeah, the 544 00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:47.000 best way to do it would be service workers, because you're kind of already 545 00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:54.800 in the web world, so like building out a full like native persistence architecture 546 00:47:54.880 --> 00:48:00.960 would be just a bit much, I think, right of service workers, 547 00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:07.440 That's how I'd do it. You have service workers go basically download the video 548 00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:13.559 and yeah, I want it. I can't comment on exactly how that would 549 00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:16.840 work because I have a basic understanding of service workers. I don't have actually 550 00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:22.639 built anything with it myself, but like ninety nine percent show that kind of 551 00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:31.559 use case is perfect for service workers. Fair enough. I'm also curious, 552 00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:36.480 and I think I think the answer to this is going to be You're going 553 00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:38.639 to have to ask the Turbo team because what I'd like. The other thing 554 00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:44.719 I'd like to do is expand it to other parts of the ecosystem that's out 555 00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:47.639 there. So lately I've been looking at I have like six or seven fire 556 00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:53.599 TVs in my house, right, firestick TVs, and so i'd like to, 557 00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:58.639 and you can load a web app in as your app, And so 558 00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:02.719 I'm wondering if Turbo or Turbative. I'm assuming turbonative doesn't apply there, but 559 00:49:04.039 --> 00:49:07.000 I guess maybe it does because you can also run it as an Android app. 560 00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:09.639 You build it an Android studio. So do you know much about that 561 00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:14.920 or uh? No, I couldn't tell you off the top of my head. 562 00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:19.039 But if it kind of works as an Android app, maybe you could 563 00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:23.559 adapt it. I don't know the APIs well enough, because I mean, 564 00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:28.119 Terminative is very much built I think with the adoption, that's going to be 565 00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:30.320 a mobile app. So if the APIs, if the native apps, the 566 00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:36.440 native APIs are the same, like it's still using like an Android we have 567 00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:39.320 an activity and a fragment and stuff. If it's still using those same APIs, 568 00:49:39.800 --> 00:49:45.440 then it probably would work, But if it's different, then probably not. 569 00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:49.960 Okay, is there anything else that I didn't ask about? Do you 570 00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:52.599 think people are going to want to know about? No? I think we've 571 00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:58.519 covered Turbo quite well. We could talk about stimulus if you want, but 572 00:49:59.119 --> 00:50:02.360 if you've covered that before, then I think we have. And we're getting 573 00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:06.199 toward the end of our time anyway, we've already been talking for fifty three 574 00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:12.559 minutes. So yeah, I'm also looking at bringing David or not David Nate 575 00:50:12.599 --> 00:50:15.280 Hopkins on to talk about some of the stuff that he just released, so, 576 00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:22.440 oh nice, the other stuff. Let's talk about the codex here for 577 00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:25.000 just another minute. So you talked about you know, you basically took eight 578 00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:30.480 months off to write it. If people want to buy it, they just 579 00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:37.400 got railsand hot wirecodex dot com. That's right, and it's it's ninety nine 580 00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:40.800 dollars. But it'll write you through. It'll walk you through writing the whole 581 00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:50.159 the whole mess. Yeah, so it teaches you all the rails, constitution 582 00:50:50.239 --> 00:50:53.840 frameworks are like active storage, auction, railbox, action, cable, everything, 583 00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:58.199 And it doesn't just teach you how to use them. It gives you 584 00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:01.800 an understanding of how they work. So what kind of really annoyed me. 585 00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:07.320 In most tutorials it will say that, okay, you want to get this 586 00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:10.320 working, write this code and it'll do what you want, and like, 587 00:51:12.039 --> 00:51:14.960 yeah, well, I don't understand. You haven't given me any understanding of 588 00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.119 that code you just said, right this, So I wanted to make sure 589 00:51:19.159 --> 00:51:22.880 that every tiny bit of code that I teach in the book has an explanation 590 00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:30.079 of what it does and why I choose that approach, and if there are 591 00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:34.639 any alternative alternatives what they are. So like, when you read the book, 592 00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:38.519 you should have not only a really good understanding of like the entire rail 593 00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:43.119 stack, how it works, and the different ways in which you can use 594 00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:47.280 it, but also like certain alternatives that are not covered in the book are 595 00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:55.280 signposted. So like have a chapter on search which teaches search using Postgress's native 596 00:51:55.280 --> 00:51:59.960 full tech search, and there's an entire discussion at the end of that chapter 597 00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:05.960 about the different kinds of searches that Postgress off offers but that I didn't cover 598 00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:08.679 in the book when you would use those kind of searches. And then it 599 00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:13.039 also has a discussion on like mainly search and elastic search and when you want 600 00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:17.800 to use those. So like all the questions that I kind of come up 601 00:52:17.800 --> 00:52:22.719 with in my head when I'm trying to learn, I've tried to answer all 602 00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:28.440 those questions, because, like it's I always find it quite frustrating when people 603 00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:34.159 don't cover things from all angles and editorial, so I kind of wanted to 604 00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:37.360 I know it's a cliche, but I wanted to write the book that I 605 00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:42.199 wish I had, So I've just tried to be as comprehensive as I could. 606 00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:47.280 I know that's kind of made the book quite large and maybe not quite 607 00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:52.920 as easily accessible just because of the size. But I kind of on the 608 00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:59.599 size side of being comprehensive over the side of being succinct. All right, 609 00:52:59.639 --> 00:53:07.280 well, I'm gonna go ahead and pick push us into the the last part 610 00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:12.159 of our show, and that is picks, and then we'll wrap up. 611 00:53:13.159 --> 00:53:15.719 I'll go ahead and go first, and you can kind of get an idea 612 00:53:15.880 --> 00:53:21.800 of what's involved, so picks or just shout outs about stuff that you like. 613 00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:24.480 I mean that that's essentially it. So some people show up and they 614 00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:29.199 pick a bunch of tech stuff. Other people show up and pick other stuff. 615 00:53:29.239 --> 00:53:31.280 I'm gonna go ahead and throw out some picks on my own. So 616 00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:35.119 the first pick that I have always do a board game pick, and I'm 617 00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:46.000 gonna pick a dice forge. So it's kind of an interesting take on deck 618 00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:52.920 building, except your building dice instead of instead of building a deck or a 619 00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:59.519 hand. And so what you wind up doing is every turn you get an 620 00:53:59.559 --> 00:54:06.039 option of either grabbing a die face or you know, taking a card that 621 00:54:06.079 --> 00:54:13.159 gives you victory points and special abilities, and then you and you buy either 622 00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:15.800 one, so you either spend goal or you spend Sun or Moon tokens to 623 00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:21.280 get them. And then you when you buy die faces, you pull the 624 00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:27.199 face off of your dice and put the new face on and they're kind of 625 00:54:27.239 --> 00:54:31.559 like legos that way, a very fun game. Played it last night with 626 00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:37.519 some friends of mine, and yeah, it has a Board Game Geek weight 627 00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:42.920 of one point ninety seven, which means it's fairly approachable for casual players. 628 00:54:43.880 --> 00:54:45.559 It went kind of fast too. I think we played it in forty five 629 00:54:45.559 --> 00:54:51.360 minutes, maybe maybe a little longer than that, pretty close, and we 630 00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:57.280 were teaching our friends how to play it. So anyway, really enjoyed Dice 631 00:54:57.320 --> 00:55:01.079 Forge, and so yeah, if you want kind of a different take on 632 00:55:04.119 --> 00:55:06.920 yeah, on how that works, then that's awesome. I'm going to post 633 00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:14.639 to the YouTube and Facebook and stuff links to Board Game Geek and to Amazon 634 00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:19.639 where you can buy it. The Amazon link is going to be an affiliate 635 00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:22.239 link, just so you know, so if you buy it there, I 636 00:55:22.239 --> 00:55:23.760 get a little piece of the action. It doesn't cost you anything extra, 637 00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:30.360 it's just anyway. And then other picks. So I am on the tail 638 00:55:30.559 --> 00:55:39.280 end of a book series, and the book series the let me look it 639 00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:44.880 up on my phone. So I've been listening to it and it's I picked 640 00:55:44.920 --> 00:55:51.800 other books by Brent Weeks in the past. This one's called Beyond the Shadows. 641 00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:59.079 The book is it's the third book in the series. I'm trying to 642 00:55:59.079 --> 00:56:02.960 remember the name of the book series itself. Title details, there we go. 643 00:56:06.239 --> 00:56:08.559 It's the Night Angel series. This is the third book in the series. 644 00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:15.920 Anyway, I'm really enjoying it. It's about this kid who basically becomes 645 00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:22.320 an assassin, and there's magic and politics and anyway, it's been really really 646 00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:24.880 good so far, so I'm going to pick that the Night Angel series. 647 00:56:25.679 --> 00:56:32.400 The first book in the series, if you're interested, is called The Way 648 00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:37.800 of Shadows, and it looks like there's a prequel that's two hours long too 649 00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:42.119 that I haven't read. So anyway, it's The Way of Shadows and then 650 00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:50.000 Shadows Edge, and then the last one is Beyond the Shadows. So yeah, 651 00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:54.800 really really enjoying that. Looks like there might be another series that's a 652 00:56:54.840 --> 00:57:00.320 sequel to it, because it says book one Kyler Chronicles and Kyler's the main 653 00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:06.079 protagonists. So anyway, terrific book. Really enjoying that, and then of 654 00:57:06.119 --> 00:57:09.559 course, just a couple of shout outs about Rails geniuses. I'm gonna start 655 00:57:09.559 --> 00:57:14.599 inviting experts to come in and talk to us in May. If you sign 656 00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:16.760 up before May, it's gonna be me, and we're just gonna chat about 657 00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:22.239 what you want to learn and who I can get on to be experts to 658 00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:24.840 show up to some of our calls and make sure that we're providing you kind 659 00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:30.079 of the value you want. I'm also gonna let everyone know I'm still looking 660 00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:36.119 for, you know, freelance contract or a full time job if I have 661 00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:40.760 to, so that you know, I got to pay the bills. And 662 00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:47.480 finally I got this set up when Monday. So if you go to Ruby 663 00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:52.519 Rogues dot com slash Premium and you sign up, it's nine dollars a month. 664 00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:57.199 You get all the shows without the ads, and I'm planning on putting 665 00:57:57.239 --> 00:58:01.599 extra content in there as well. So I was supporting the shows off of 666 00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:05.800 my contract income, and so I'm trying to find another way to do that 667 00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:07.719 too, and this seems like a good way. So you know, if 668 00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:12.159 we have one hundred or so people sign up, then it should cover most 669 00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:16.880 of the costs of producing podcasts. So anyway, that's that's everything I've got. 670 00:58:17.360 --> 00:58:21.800 I USh, what are your picks? Right? So I think I'm 671 00:58:21.800 --> 00:58:25.119 going to start with a music pick because if you're watching on the YouTube and 672 00:58:25.159 --> 00:58:30.320 stuff, you can see a massive the case a CD is behind me because 673 00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:37.039 I am still that rare breed that buys CDs and exclusively listens to music on 674 00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:43.360 CDs rather than streaming sentences. So I'm gonna start at the past. Weird, 675 00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:52.159 yeah, and in my friend group we find people who don't buy CDs. 676 00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:54.920 We had I'm like part of a it's definitely not a cult. Not 677 00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:59.280 a cult. We never call it a cult. That's what I say about 678 00:58:59.320 --> 00:59:07.599 my board game group. So I'm gonna start with a band called Life Signs, 679 00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:15.079 who actually are actually oh nice. So yeah, They're a band I've 680 00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:20.800 been following for a couple of years and they are just absolutely fantastic, and 681 00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:28.199 I'm constantly astonished that they are still playing in pubs two hundred people rather than 682 00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:34.000 theaters to a few thousand, because the level of the music is just unbelievable. 683 00:59:34.039 --> 00:59:37.840 It's just yeah, they struggle to get the support of the industry, 684 00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:40.599 so I want to give them a shout out. So that's life Signs. 685 00:59:42.199 --> 00:59:45.880 Highly recommend it to anyone who's into like rock music of any kind of description. 686 00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:51.719 I'm sure you like it. And I'll make a tech pic as well. 687 00:59:51.880 --> 01:00:04.079 So there's a reals dashboard library called AVO made Adrian Maren who also before 688 01:00:04.760 --> 01:00:13.360 have you. Yeah, it's also he also Yeah, he's the nicest guy 689 01:00:13.400 --> 01:00:21.039 and he also runs a friendly that RB conference in Bucharest. And I got 690 01:00:21.039 --> 01:00:24.880 to use AVO for the first time on my current client project where we were 691 01:00:24.920 --> 01:00:31.559 shopping around for a few different admin dashboards and I was just kind of just 692 01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:35.400 blew the others out of the water, to be honest, Like I played 693 01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:39.280 around with some others and this was just the docs were unbelievably good. The 694 01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:45.079 UI is really good out of the box. Pretty much any question I had 695 01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:47.440 I could put into the docks search and I got an answer for it. 696 01:00:50.679 --> 01:00:53.440 Yeah, highly recommendative. There is an open source free version and if you 697 01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:59.840 need something more involved, that are like paid versions as well. And yeah, 698 01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:02.800 AVO, AVO, dot, AVO, HQ dot io or something of 699 01:01:02.840 --> 01:01:07.599 that. I think is the u r L. You highly recommend it. 700 01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:14.719 For admund dashboards because I'm using it right now. Yeah, the U r 701 01:01:14.840 --> 01:01:17.400 L that I have is avo dot cool, but it redirects to avo hq 702 01:01:17.559 --> 01:01:23.800 dot IOK. Nice, that's a good r L. So yeah, I'll 703 01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:28.639 drop that in the comments. If you're on Twitter or YouTube or Facebook, 704 01:01:28.639 --> 01:01:32.079 you'll see it show up in the comments. Unfortunately, Twitter, which is 705 01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:37.880 where most people are watching this, doesn't do the comments. So anyway, 706 01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:42.559 go find us on YouTube and you can get you can get it on the 707 01:01:42.599 --> 01:01:49.320 recording of the live stream and that's at YouTube dot com, slash at topendevs 708 01:01:50.400 --> 01:01:54.559 cool deal. If people want to connect with you Ayush, they have questions 709 01:01:54.559 --> 01:01:58.880 for you, anything like that, where do they find you? So best 710 01:01:58.920 --> 01:02:06.400 ways probably email or masterdon So my email is a us A y U s 711 01:02:06.639 --> 01:02:15.000 h at radioactivetoy dot tech. That's my business website as well. Cheers. 712 01:02:15.320 --> 01:02:19.840 Yeah, that's my business website as well, Radioactive Toy dot tech. And 713 01:02:19.880 --> 01:02:25.920 I'm on masterdon at ayush at Ruby dot social. Those are probably the best 714 01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:29.320 ways. I do have Twitter, but I honestly don't use it a whole 715 01:02:29.360 --> 01:02:32.199 lot these days, so you may or may not get a response if you 716 01:02:32.239 --> 01:02:37.280 ping me on there, so email a master on is the best? All 717 01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:39.159 right? Good deal. Well we'll go ahead and wrap it up here. 718 01:02:39.639 --> 01:02:43.599 Thanks for coming. This was fun. Thanks for having me. Yeah, 719 01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:45.679 I'd love to chat about Bridgetown some at the time as well. Yeah. 720 01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:51.079 Absolutely, well we'll get you on for sure. Sounds good. Thanks very 721 01:02:51.199 --> 01:02:52.679 much. Until next time, folks, max out