This is a studio both And production. If you'd like to support this show
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to patreon dot com slash both and. Warning, listening to this podcast may
cause on mitigating obsession and cognitive dissonance. All names have been changed to protect
the innocent, the insane, and everyone else in between. It was still
the summer of nineteen eighty eight. Puffed sleeves and nit Fedora's walked the runways.
Who framed Roger Rabbit was playing in theaters? Sunny Bono was elected mayor
of Palm Springs in Oakland, California. Two teenage girls were celebrating the anniversary
of their so called independence July first, nineteen eighty eight, dear Mark,
I can hardly believe it, but today makes one year since Karen and me
moved into this little house. I'm just writing to say happy anniversary to us
and you and you too. I thought you might be interested in knowing that
I've changed my major. I've decided to become a school teacher, just like
Karen, your tenant, Ellen, dear Mark, Today makes one year since
I moved in here. I should be getting a check from you soon,
I think, for interest on my seven hundred dollars security deposit yours Karen.
Contained within the Karen and Ellen letters is a photocopy of a document. It's
something that Mark dug up after the girls moved out of the cottage, which
seemed to indicate that Mark was doing his own investigation into and keeping tabs on
Karen and Ellen long after they left California. And I knew that if I
could track that document down in the real world, in its original form,
it would prove that at least Karen and her boyfriend Rob actually existed. It
could also help to authenticate many of the events mentioned in the letters. And
if there was any place I could find this document, it was in Portland,
Oregon. So while I was living there, I spent about a month
going to various libraries and offices, until eventually, in a dark corner and
a quiet library on a microfiche, I found not the document in question,
but one that corroborated it, And it seemed to indicate that Karen and Rob
were real people who really lived in Oregon and who really got into some really
big trouble there. July third, nineteen eighty eight, Dear Karen, I
do pay interest on security deposits, even though I'm not legally required to do
so. I send out checks in late December every year. You will get
your check for eighteen months occupancy by January first, nineteen eighty nine, at
six percent a year. Mark, July fifth, nineteen eighty eight, Mark,
six percent interest isn't fair, and you know it. On the back
of this letter, I've glued on an advertisingment. It shows that thirty four
point four percent a year is the rate others are paying. I figure my
seven hundred dollars deposit at thirty four point four percent means I should get a
check from you for three hundred and sixteen dollars and some odd sense. Yours,
Karen, July fifth, nineteen eighty eight, Mark, I've been studying
your handwriting. My guess is that you are an aries. Like most aries.
I think you think about money a lot and are good at math,
although Karen tells me that you make a lot of mistakes in your math.
The way you cross t's without lifting your pen from the paper indicates that you
had unhappiness in your childhood, possibly a lot of quarreling or the death of
a parent. When you were young or something like that. How did I
do? Ellen, July eighth, nineteen eighty eight, Dear Karen, I
am looking at the ad you sent me. My Dear Karen, No matter
what you may believe to the contrary, I'm not a mutual fund, Nor
am I IBM GE or McDonald's. May I remind you that I'm not required
by law or the terms of your lease to pay you any interest on your
security deposit since Ceerly Mark, July eleventh, nineteen eighty eight, Mark,
I think you were joking when you said you're not a mutual fund anyway.
Why should I get six percent interest if everyone else is paying thirty four point
four percent? Yours, Karen, July eleventh, nineteen eighty eight. Dear
Karen, I've shown copies of your recent letters to my uncle Albert, who
is a professor of law at Suffolk University in Boston, for his legal opinion
on the issue of jurisdiction. I've enclosed a copy of this letter to me
with this letter to you. Since my uncle Albert has been a professor of
law since before you were born, I think it would be reasonable for me
to assume that he probably knows more about this issue of jurisdiction than your boyfriend,
who is only quote thinking of applying to Tufts University Law School, especially
as specially considering that my uncle says that Tufts has no last school's Mark July
seventh, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, it is good to hear from
you, although I am sorry to hear that you are having a little difficulty
with one of your tenants. You are absolutely right about the rent control law
of Berkeley that applies only to apartments in Berkeley. It does not make any
difference where the landlord lives, and it does not make any difference where the
tenant came from. The only thing that matters is where the apartment is.
If the apartment is in Berkeley, the Berkeley rent control law applies. The
apartment is not in Berkeley, the Berkeley rent control law does not apply.
From what you have said, your tenant seems to be a very nice young
woman, so I am surprised that she has not been able to understand this
yet. I think you should encourage her to speak to the people at the
Berkeley rent board, but to be sure to tell them that the apartment is
in Oakland. She tells them that they will have to tell her that they
have no jurisdiction at all. Incidentally, Tufts University, which is near Boston,
has a very good reputation, but it does not have a law school.
I do hope that things are going well with you, and that you
and your tenant will get along better after she realizes that you are charging her
a perfectly legal amount of rent. Best regards from your uncle, Albert.
July thirteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, I know many other landlords,
and I belong to several landlord trade associations. I can assure you that
quote everyone is not paying thirty four point four percent interest on tenants security deposits.
Sincerely, Mark, July fifteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Mark, my
boyfriend went back to the Berkeley Rent Control Board because they didn't call him back.
They said that if a landlord claims to be exempt from the Berkeley rent
Control law, he has to fill out a petition form. He picked up
a copy of the form for your convenience, and I've enclosed it. If
you fill out this form and send it to the Berkeley Rent Board, they'll
tell you if you're exempt. Yours Karen. July sixteenth, nineteen eighty eight.
Dear Outbert, thanks for your letter. Time will tell if it works.
I've set a copye after Karen. If I had received the letter you
wrote, I would have taken umbrage at a blatantly patronizing and condescending tone of
the letter. I would have felt you were being sycophantic and even obseque with.
However, since Karen cannot spell or comprehend the meaning of multi syllabic words,
it's difficult she will feel the same way. Thanks Mark, July nineteenth,
nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karen, I'm not going to apply for exemption
from Berkeley's rent control law or fill out any forms your house is in Oakland.
Although it's foolish on my part, I still have hopes, however small,
but you will eventually come to understand the concept of jurisdiction. Remember,
if you bring any legal action against me, either through the courts or the
Berkeley Rent Control Board, to comply with Berkeley's rent law, I will affect
you right Sincerely, work. It was still the summer of nineteen eighty eight.
The Land before Time was playing in theaters. The Olympics were being held
in Seoul, South Korea. The US was deep in the midst of the
Iran Contra scandal, and in Oakland, California, two teenage girls were about
to encounter some very big life change. Jews July twenty third, nineteen eighty
eight, Mark, I went to the ASUC Renter Assistance Project for advice.
I showed them all my letters to you and yours to me. They laughed
when they read them. I think they thought your arguments were ridiculous. Anyway.
They told me I haven't got a case. They said that jurisdiction is
a real loophole or something like that. About the interest on my deposit,
what would you say to splitting the difference in half? I want thirty four
percent, You want six percent. Thirty four plus six equals forty divided by
two equals twenty. So how does twenty percent a year sound to you?
Yours, Karen, July twenty seventh, nineteen eighty eight, Dear Karen,
I pay the going rate of interest on security deposits. Most landlords who do
pay interest on deposits, and many do not pay around six percent. Banks
are paying six percent on passbook accounts. Treasury bills pay around six percent,
CDs pay around six percent. I pay around six percent. Sincerely Mark.
For several years, after finding evidence that Rob and Karen could be real,
I unsuccessfully tried to track down Ellen. Her name was so common that even
when I narrowed searches down to the places I believed she was most likely to
be, there were dozens of Ellen's who shared her full name. I spent
hours deep diving Facebook, MySpace, and even various new age message boards and
chat rooms with no luck. Also included in marks stack of letters was a
copy of an old op ed about police dogs that was apparently written by Ellen,
and I couldn't even find that. Granted, it was twenty five years
old at the time, and most newspapers are still to this day working on
digitizing their archives, but it just seemed odd that I could find no trace
of Ellen anywhere in the real world. And even after my successes in finding
evidence of Mark, Karen, and Rob, I started to again question how
real the letters could actually be. Perhaps they were just factual events manipulated into
fiction, but even that didn't make sense to what end. I left Portland
in two thousand and nine and moved back to San Francisco, and the letters
once again sat dormant in a box in a closet. A year later,
I got a job offer in Seattle, and so, once again, in
a new city full of new faces, the Karen and Ellen letters were resorted.
But this time we went big. Karen and Ellen, we're about to
have their first brush with fame. August first, nineteen eighty eight, Mark,
I accidentally broke the vacuum cleaner you gave me when I was cleaning out
the refrigerator. Can I have another one soon? Karen? August fourth,
nineteen eighty eight, Dear Karen, Why, why? And how did you
use an upright vacuum cleaner to clean the refrigerator? How did the vacuum get
broken? I know it would be wiser for me not to ask you this,
but frankly, my curiosity has gotten the better over my judgment. Oh
August eighth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, I didn't want to tell
you how I broke the vacuum cleaner because it might sound silly to you,
and I wouldn't want you to think I was stupid or something. Well,
I was going to clean out the refrigerator and when I pulled out the vegetable
tray. There was the screen slimy stuff on the bottom. I didn't want
to touch it because it looked too disgusting, so I thought I could just
vacuum it up. I check out the shelves because it's hard to get an
upright vacuum cleaner into the refrigerator. Well, as soon as the vacuum sucked
up the green slimy stuff the under and the vacuum burned out, I guess
I shouldn't vacuum green slimy stuff. Can I get another one soon? Yours,
Karen, August twelfth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Karum, landlords are
not required by law to give tenants vacuum cleaners. Most do not. Considering
that you only had the vacuum cleaner for two months and it was brand new
when you got it, and considering how you broke it, I am not
going to give you another one. Sincerely, Mark, August fifteenth, nineteen
eighty eight. Mark, does this mean I'm going to have to pay for
the next vacuum cleaner myself? Karen, August twenty first, nineteen eighty eight.
Mark, your letter was the last straw that broke the Camel's back.
Anyway, I'm leaving. This is your thirty day notice. I'm not going
to take this anymore. What kind of fool do you think I am?
Anyway? Your letters make me feel like an idiot. All I want is
what I've got coming to me. Allen says she's going to stay. Karen,
August twenty second, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, I'd like a
letter of recommendation from you that I can show to other landlords so I can
find in an apartment, which will be easier if I have a letter of
recommendation from you that I can show to other landlords when I try to find
an apartment. Yours, Karen, August twenty fourth, nineteen eighty eight.
To whom it may concern, Karen has been a tenant of mine for the
past fifteen months. Through my meetings, phone calls, and correspondence with her,
I have come to know Karen quite well. I can say without hesitation
that in my twenty years in this business, I have never had a tenant
of Karen's caliber or mental equal. Karen has always kept her house neat and
clean, and to the best of my knowledge, has never made excessive noise
or disturbed her neighbors. I am confident that anyone who rents an apartment to
Karen will quickly be struck with her. Many unique qualities we tarre too numerous
to fully cover in this letter. Very sincerely, Mark, August twenty eight,
nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, your letter of recommendation almost made me
cry. It's so beautiful. Thank you so much. I may have been
a little harsh with you over the last few months. I've been having a
bad time. I'm dropping out of UC Berkeley. My advisor says I should
reconsider being a school teacher, and my boyfriend didn't get into Tufts. I'm
probably going back to Oregon. My daddy says, you can get me a
job at at a genetic engineering lab or something in Portland where they make viruses
and bacteria and stuff like that. It sounds very exciting and the pay is
terrifical, and it sounds like fun too. Bye Yours, Karen, September
fourth, nineteen eighty eight, Dear Mark, I'm going to leave here at
the end of this month. I haven't had much luck finding a roommate,
and I can't afford the rent by myself on my allowance alone thought I found
a roommate, a woman named Alice. She's a language major and speaks affluent
German. I decided not to take her for three reasons. First, Alice
is a scorpio, and you know what that means. Second, Karen tells
me that she heard that German is a gutter language and that sounds like bad
karma to me. I wish I could find someone just like Karen, but
she's really one of a kind. I'll miss her. You can start showing
this house anytime after September fifth. To new tenants, Ellen, September eighth,
nineteen eighty eight, dear Mark, Karen and her boyfriend are going back
to Portland next week to get marked. Then they will be going to Calcutta
for a month on their honeymoon. My new guru says, Calcutta hasn't been
discovered by tourists yet. Anyway, this means I'll be taking care of the
security deposit refund for both of us, since Karen won't be here. Has
somebody called you from the ASUC rent He Assistance Project? Karen says, somebody
there is telling people that she's crazy. Can you imagine? We don't know
who's saying it. But Karen says that allegations are being made against her,
and she's going to find the alligator. If you know who it is,
please let us know yours, Ellen, September ninth, nineteen eighty eight,
Dear Albert, I am beginning to understand Karen's logic, and this worries me.
Furthermore, I am beginning to agree with her logic, and this worries
me even more. In my legal opinion, we know that a donation is
made by a donor, an interrogation is conducted by an interrogator. There Go
it must follow an allegation is made by an alligator. Karen's logic seems perfectly
reasonable to me. Do I get a passing grade? Mark? September tenth,
nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, I'm a volunteer worker with a Bush
for President campaign. They suggested that I could be of help to Bush by
writing letters to people I already knew at home, rather than working at their
office. Anyway, I'm writing to you to ask you to vote for George
Bush. I've done a lot of thinking about the selection, which is my
first Anyway, I think you should vote for Bush for these five reasons.
Number one, George Bush has six letters in his first name and four letters
in his last name, both even numbers. Michael Ducaccus has seven letters and
both his first and last names an odd number. Of course, seven plus
seven equals fourteen, which is even, but it doesn't work that way.
Number two Bush is a Gemini, but Ducoccus is a Scorpio, and you
know what that means. Quayle and Benson are both Aquarians, so that doesn't
mean anything. Number three Bush is a Republican. Number four Ducaccus is a
Democrat. I'm sure that once you consider these important issues, you will vote
for George Bush along with Karen rob and me. Yours, Ellen, September
twelfth, nineteen eighty eight, Dear Ellen, thank you for your recent letter
with your lists of reasons why I should vote for George Bush for president.
The reasons you listed are as good and perhaps better than any other reasons I
have heard thus far. Four voting for mister Bush, you may rest assure
that I will give your recommendation all the consideration it deserves. Sincerely, markup,
Mber thirteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, the good thing about
yom Kipper is that it's coming encourages hardcore procrastinators like me to write some of
the letters we have written on our minds over and over. The Karen and
Allen letters are unbelievable. I have showed them to Benji, Michael, and
Adam, and I will show them to Leon when I see him. I
have also shown select ones to some of my colleagues, who must also think
your arguments are ridiculous, for they also laughed. I've really learned a great
deal from them that I might never have known without them. Some of it
a little disquieting, for example, that gutter languages can place bad karma.
My previous tenants spoke Hebrew, which also has some of the same sounds that
make German a gutter language. Perhaps that explains the karma in my place.
My nineteen o six printing of an eighteen ninety seven edition of Webster's Dictionary lists
three interesting words escaper, a tender, and a ledger. In the next
edition, escaper is retained, but is said to be used mostly for prisoners
of war. For other prisoners who escaped, the word does now escape b
although this really sounds offensive to me because the prison is really the escape e.
While the person who escapes ought to be called the escaper. The word
attend has been dropped and replaced with attendee, which also sounds wrong and offensive
to my ear. A ledger has been dropped without being replaced at all.
There has been a void in the language until now. Ellen's replacement is not
only not offensive to my ear, but it even sounds better than the original
a ledger. Perhaps if we spell it alligator with an e instead of an
eye, it might be picked up for the next edition of Webster's Best Regards.
Albert ps. The word Perfect spelling program accepts a tender and a ledger,
but not a scaper or attendee. What a state of affairs. September
fourteenth, nineteen eighty eight. Dear Mark, I may have good news for
you, or I may not. Karen had a really big fight with her
father and maybe moving back here. Karen's father controls her trust fund until she's
twenty five, and he says he won't let her have any money to go
to Calcutta on her honeymoon. He's trying to make Karen go to Paris,
France instead. He's an old democrat, you know. Anyway, Karen says
Paris has already discovered Touris years ago too. I know that you need to
know if I'm leaving or staying. I don't know how serious Karen is about
moving back here. There may be nothing to all this, but on the
other hand, there may not. Yours, Ellen, September nineteenth, nineteen
eighty eight, Dear Mark, Karen gave in to her father, so she's
going to have to go to Paris on her honeymoon instead of Calcutta. He's
even having her stay at the Ritz Hotel too. After Paris, Karen's father
is making her go to Venice on the Orient Express, which is an old
train. He's being a real tyrant, if you ask me, ruining Karen's
honeymoon. Yours, Ellen, September eighteenth, nineteen eighty eight, Dear Albert,
I look forward to Karen's trip to Paris and Allen's report from the trip.
I have observed that while Karen misspells even one syllabled words, Ellen misspells
words far less frequently, and usually only words of French origin, such as
gorilla for gorilla, exercise for exorcise, affluent for fluent, gutter for gutter
roll. Of course, this could just be a coincidence. We will see.
We will see. Mark, Uncle Albert was right. The Karen and
Ellen letters were unbelievable, or maybe they were so unbelievable that they actually became
believable, like they were just too crazy to be fake. And I did
notice nuanced changes and the letters as time went on. For example, once
Karen moved out, Mark seemed much more playful and humored by Ellen's letters,
as though a burden had been lifted official. He and Ellen would even strike
up a surprising bond, and for as much as Mark seemed to try to
hide it, you could tell that he was actually starting to care for Ellen,
who again was the only one I could find no evidence of in the
real world. But Mark's eyes would quickly be shaken, because, as with
all Karen's our Karen wouldn't be silent for long. The Karen and Ellen Letters
are Found Correspondents narrated by me Josh Hallmark and voiced by Sarah Stapleton, Sarah
Kitcher, Jeff Powell, and Benjamin Watkins. This episode was made possible by
the following Patreon producers Adrian I Yellow, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, and
net L Benjamin Choppa Thong, Casey Jensen, Richardson, Dana Keith, Doctor
Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Halle Reid, Jessica Alahode, Jillian Natale,
John O'Leary, Kendall, C Kimberly, k Lauren f Linley, tuscoff Manolas
Bulachus, megancap Seewell, Mike Sherman, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Sarah King,
sc Shannon Foster, Shelley Brewer, Tuesday Woodworth, Zach Ignottowitz, Warren,
Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Carley McNutt, Lana Sarah
Ce and Lydia Fiedler. If you'd like to support the show, go to
Patreon, dot com, Slash Studio both and. This episode featured music by
Jay Eighties, Topaz White, Retro, Chilway, Droid, Bishop, Channel
thirteen, Neon Lights, Icarus, and Everything High