What is Krackwack and felt Dermo nuclear evers I am Damn Valley coming at you
with Well, we'll hopefully be a fairly expedited intro before we get to some
Chicago bulls talk with Jason Patt from the Cash Considerations podcast. It was a
really good conversation with him. I can go through the whole spiel. Please,
if you're watching this, subscribe already YouTube, Spotify, Apple Share our
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YouTube channel on the interwebs might totally just unbiased take on this. We've had
clamorings for us to tackle some more recent events stuff get back to mailbags.
I am very focused on getting these team look aheads done as efficiently as possible.
So I'm not going I'm already a little bit out of my mind,
but I don't want them just you know, it's always a dead sprint.
As we're getting towards opening nights, I'm trying to spread them out as much
as possible. There will be a lot of weeks I think coming up where
we're just going five six podcasts a week, So please well, Grant,
I will do sort of a news update. Maybe we do have a couple
actually league wide pods as OPR twenty twenty two NBA off season regrades or dropping
at the end of next week or maybe at the beginning of the following week.
We have one of them recorded and we need to do another one.
Maybe we'll tackle some news updates before we record the second one. But I
did want to hit especially after reading a piece from Katie Heindel about how people
with platforms not saying something is kind of damaging, even if they're they're waiting.
I didn't want to record something in front of a team look ahead because
I didn't want it to sound like I was speaking on behalf of our guest.
But if you're listening to the intro, I think you can understand that
this is not our guest that is saying. This is a not our guest
that is endorsing anything I'm saying, although what I'm saying should not really be
controversial. Kevin Porter Jr. Posted bail is now charged with two felonies for
assaulting Kaiser Gondrazik his girlfriend, and she is a former WMBA player. She
spent the twenty twenty one season with the Indiana Fever, and she attended college
at Michigan and then West Virginia. He is charged with felony. This is
Kevin Porter Junior has charged with felony assault and strangulation. According to the criminal
complaint. I don't want to go too much into the details, they're all
out there, but he repeatedly struck her in the face with a close fist,
causing a laceration above her right eye and bruising and substantial pain to her
face. He only stopped, apparently when she ran into the hall covered in
blood. The NYU land Gone I think it's pronounced medical center said that she
had a fractured vertebrae in her neck, which is just incredibly serious. And
that's where we're at with this is Kevin Porter Junior in trouble again. He
posted bill seventy five thousand dollars. I believe he has to appear. This
happened in Manhattan. He will have to appear in court on October sixteenth is
the date. I believe the only reaction that we need to have is fuck
him, fuck this guy, fuck this It is awful. That's it.
That's the end of their reaction. And you want to get into the details
of discipline. How is Kaiser Gondrezick doing. That's the only thing, and
first of all, that's the only person that really truly matters, and all
this is her well being. How she's doing this sounds like an incredibly scary
incident, and I'm so this is I can't imagine how it impacts women,
not just fans of the game, but also women who cover this league to
see some of the responses from fans. And I will say I haven't or
I actually won't say that, But some of the stuff that I think has
been most troubling is it comes from these just fan podcasts. And I don't
have a problem with fan podcasts. We have fans of teams on this podcast,
because I think that fan cover is super hyper valuable. But the people
that are only going to stand for their team that are never going to actually
provide and you should be able as a fan to take back. And if
you want to call it objective of analysis, analysis have objectively subjective analysis where
you can call out bad things and say you know what, this sucks.
Fuck this guy. He shouldn't be doing this. I don't care about what
Kevin Porter Junior is going to what he could have done this season. I
don't care about his contract. And also by me saying that that's not let's
not heroicize, saying that that should just be the norm here, is that
we shouldn't be talking about it. Even in the wake of the report from
Sham Sarania that from the Athletic that the Rockets are now looking to trade for
him. Yeah, you know what, I have a reaction to that.
It's they're looking to trade him. Excuse me, I have a reaction to
that. And the reaction is that's despicable. But I saw a lot of
kind of like, oh, well, if they're doing this, I understand,
like, let's go into this aspect of it. This is not the
most serious part of this, clearly, but because this report out, like
here's my reaction, why they would do this? YadA, YadA, YadA.
It's just so uncomfortable even reading that, Like there should be a point
where we can just say he's being credibly charged with two felonies because he fractured
the vertebrae of Kaiser Gondrezick because his girlfriend, Like, this is just domestic
violence and we are so and I'm totally guilty of this myself. I want
to make it clear, is we are so hardwired to just move on to
where it's. Oh, it's the next day, and like this news has
come out that the Rockets are trying to trade him, so let's analyze it
through that vein. No, we don't have to actually do that, and
they should just wave him, like that's the impact this should have, is
that he should be waived. It shouldn't be, Oh, we're trying to
pawn off with some mistake on their end, clearly on another team, and
I don't even know how I feel about the other team, which whoever acquires
him will probably waive him. But if you're gonna capitalize in any way on
domestic violence, that's grimy to me. So you shouldn't know. You shouldn't
be trading for him if you're gonna just because you're the team that waves him
because you got draft picks for him, or like you're acquiring him as I
guess an expiring contractor you're gonna view it the way that his contract is structured,
even I'm talking about this now. It shouldn't fucking matter. Just waive
him. And yes, per the NBA's collective Bargaining Agreement, the Rockets can't
actually discipline Kevin Porter Junior until I believe the league completes their investigation. Adam
Silver said that they were aware of the details. That's really basically all he
could say. And he said they were horrific, and they are fucking horrific.
They're beyond fucking horrific. But they can still waive him. If you
can trade him, you can waive him. And I don't care about the
transactional aspect of this, and or I should say, you know what,
maybe I am wired to care because I am going off about this. I
hope we can just get to a point where the reaction can be No,
Dan doesn't, mister white Mail. Sis Mail comes on here and says,
for five minutes, Yeah, this Kevin Porter Junior thing is is horrific and
that's the only reaction we should have. And then he's going to go into
a long monologue about why we shouldn't be reacting to this and this and this
aspect of it, Like the fact that I'm even doing this is pretty dumb
on my end, but I did want to make sure that we commented on
it. I hope Kaiser Gondrezik is okay, and yes there's an investigation to
be completed, but the details that are coming out are just absolutely harrowing.
And so the only two things I care about is that no, Kevin Porter
Junior should just be if he can't be formally disciplined right now by the Rockets
because of the CBA, like he should be absolutely waive, like get him
off this team, get him away from this team. He's already not expected
to report to training camp. Waive him, get out in front of this.
Actually be proactive rather than reactive. We're deflective when you're looking at trying
to compensate a team to acquire his salary. Like, let's for once.
I understand the NBA is a business, and you can't hold a business to
a higher standard relative to other businesses. It's just so tiring, and I
feel not for myself, clearly, I just feel for women who are fans
of the game, who are covering the game, who have to watch this.
We have to see the discourse, even if it's in corners of the
internet where we really even shouldn't care about those corners of the internet. It
just has to suck. And I would highly recommend Katie Hindel's piece over Basketball
Feelings. She was on the podcast Basketball Feelings dot Com. We have a
bunch of listeners that subscribed once they heard it. We super appreciated that.
Go over there, check out the piece. It's on her It's on her
Twitter feed, I believe. But Basketball Feelings dot Com will be able to
defind it. And that's just in the future. I'm gonna need to do
a better job of one, like, let's acknowledge this even though we haven't.
You know, the excuse is what we haven't really been covering news.
If something like this happens, we need to jump on it. We talked
about the Kid Jones video and we did the Hornets look Ahead that those Kid
Jones stuff like, we should be addressing these and the extent of me addressing
it should just be coming on to say this is despicable. There's no natural,
good, bright eyed segue to just say, let's go talk about basketball
with Jason Patt of the Cash Considerations podcast as we go Deep and Long on
the twenty twenty three two twenty four Chicago Bulls. I really hope you enjoyed
this episode. What is kracklacking? Fellow thermonuclear afers, I am Dan Pavalley
coming at you without my certified fantabulous co host, Grant Us, but I
am super excited and grateful to once again be joined by Jason pat the managing
editor for Clutch Points. He's also the co host of the Cash Considerations podcast,
the podcast about the Chicago Bulls. Follow him on Twitter at Bulls Underscore
Jay Jay a y that is spelled. You will find a link to his
podcast in our podcast and YouTube description as well, so go there and subscribe.
This is year three of Jason and I talking about the Chicago Bulls.
But first I have to ask Jason, how the heck are you doing.
I'm doing great. It's obviously a kind of a dead time in the NBA
season. We got our off season. I guess we have had the Feeble
World Cup, but Bulls weren't that involved. I guess Boch Booch was playing
there and Carl Carl Jones was killing it for South Sedan and so cool stuff
for him. But otherwise, yeah, I'm just I guess I'm getting excited
for the season, if you can say that about the Bulls after everything that's
going on lately. But I am excited. I mean, we got like
a month to month or so till training camp. I'm looking forward again because
this part of the year is truly brutal, So looking forward to actual games
starting again pretty soon here. So how does it work? Will they retire
Daniel Tyson's jersey number now that he's a FIBA World champ and used to play
for Chicago or Bulls legend Daniel Daniels has destroying Team USA. Uh, they
really shouldn't tie. He was. He was solid for the Bulls in like
the twenty games he played for them. Uh, kudos to him for just
destroying the embarrassing Team USA frontline. Oh yeah, man, the Jaren Jackson
junior commentary went off the rails. Oh my god. I will say I've
said STOs. I can't bring myself to care. But I'm just so like,
I guess over stand by the NBA coverage that I have to do that,
just like I can't bring myself to muster strong feelings about what happens during
saying, I made some jokes, made some fun of them for a little
bit, But I mean, I wasn't watching like that, No Ali Pop
in Champagne. That was the Chicago Bulls. Though, I think they had
an interesting off season in the sense that it wasn't an interesting offseason, and
I think most of the discourse is kind of lampoon them for not blowing it
up and starting over. So when you look at what happened to this offseason,
do you think that they actually missed an opportunity to lean in to a
rebuild or do they deserve to be commended for not doing anything that's actively bad
for the franchise. So, like, it is such a weird spot with
the Bulls because especially with Alonso stuff going on and he's going to miss another
season, Because what if they first put the team together with Alonzo in place
a couple of summers agoing like they were good for about sixty games or so,
and like they competitive, they were on top of the East, and
then he got hurt and the last quarter of the year fell apart, and
then last year was just aggressively mediocre and pretty miserable to watch. And now
and they have just haven't done much, Like they haven't changed the roster much,
and this offseason they makes some small but it was like, like all
the moves they made this offseason were like pretty good and like defensible. Don't
love the Bouche contract, three years sixty full of guaranteed, Like Booch is
still pretty good. Like I'm not gonna like like I don't want to scapegoad
Booch, but like three years sixty is a bit much for whatever, thirty
three year old center who is still good and good productive player, but like
is he that good? Is he when he's thirty five? Like is that
going to be a good deal given where the team is at right now?
Skeptical but whatever, It's not like it's a damaging, like horrific contract.
It's probably fine. I don't love it, but whatever, but like it
is better than the three years and eighty million I thought it was initially reported
for what I thought they signed him too. So three years sixty a steel
if you frame it that, three years eighty would have been real rough.
But yeah, so like that was finally the Kobe White extension perfectly perfectly fine.
Like Kobe played pretty well towards the end of the year, so like
that's good. The IO thing was maybe a bit much for him, given
he kind of regressed last season, but again like three years twenty one million,
thought might he might be back on the qualifying offer and then maybe hits
free to see again. But three years twenty a million probably a lot there,
But again is that gonna be super damaging? Probably not. And then
like the Javon Carter move was great, Tory drug solid signing, Like those
are two guys I think, like a lot of Bulls fans were kind of
like looking at given what they needed. They need more three point shooting,
Tory Krug gives him a little more size on the wing, some defense,
and he just coming off a career high three point shooting. So those moves
like all defensible in terms of like did they miss the opportunity to blow it
up? I mean, I think you can argue that they certainly didn't,
that they could have if they really wanted to, But it does not seem
like they are have an appetite for a rebuild. You could argue they should
have could have done it before the deadline, like Damar have traded tomorrow before
the last deadline. Zach and I know we'll talk more about this in a
bit, Like Zach, there were trade rumors this offseason, that doesn't seem
like anything got close. They're asking for a lot rightfully, and it just
doesn't seem like the market is there for him right now. And like the
vood stuff, like, I think you could have looked into maybe moving a
couple of these guys, maybe they'll like Votin tomorrow or the older guys.
Maybe try to go with like Zach and some younger players and see kind of
where that goes. Maybe you do like a stealth tank is like Zach is
really good and again we'll talk about Zach Moore later, but like he's never
really like can't really like lead a team to a lot of wins. So
like, if you just kind of go like that route, maybe they could
have been entertainingly bad and maybe gotten a high draft pick. But they didn't.
And it seems like clearly the goal the goal of this franchise is to
stay competitive enough, put butts in the seats, maybe make the playoffs,
and then maybe get lucky with the superstar like asking out and wanting to come
here, although that like never works. Maybe you're able to trade for guy,
but they don't have many trade assets. I don't know which site was
it the other Day that had said the Bulls had the worst trade assets in
the NBA. They might have been hoop side. I can't remember, but
I know like there's been like some stuff out there. There was like that
with the trade assets. Someone did a ranking of like the all like the
gms, and like AK was like third worst out of like any experienced gms.
Like it's not a great spot to be right now, you could I
think you could argue that you could commend them for trying not just like get
going the I think it's easy to decide, all right, we're gonna blow
it up. We're just gonna trade everybody and then build over. And then
obviously the hard part is actually building it backup, not just going the straight
tank rout and trying to put a decent product on the court. Of course,
the problem is last season they were just extremely mid can't even make the
play in despite the alleged talent on their roster, which is just really disappointing.
And now what's the defense from Rosen too, Let's not forget about her.
Yes, of course, yes, the reason they won the first playing
game was because the Dard Rosen. They were getting smoked until that her and
zach Lavine kind of turned the tide there. But yeah, so like there's
in a weird spot where they have some pretty good players, but just like
it has not come together and the Lonzo thing just totally ruined it. They've
sunk so much capital draft capital into putting the score together, they're still out
Like the Spurs pick that they got Tamar four and just yeah, there's their
asset basis is not that great, like young player wise, like they have
some decent young players, but no, like real blue chippers at this point.
Whatever you think of Patrick Williams, like like he's a nice, nice
young player, but again he's not really like a blue chip guy right now,
even though he was number four pick. I mean he's going into year
four now, it's like a lot to prove there. So like they're just
kind of in this weird spot and like they're figuring, let's try to be
competitive. Maybe that'll be enough. Maybe they'll be better this year and maybe
they can use that as a stepping point to go forward and maybe they get
a super Maybe Jannis is talking about maybe leaving the Bucks. Not really,
he's obviously not. He's just kind of putting pressure on them to be good,
but maybe they think gonna get snag Yannis in the next couple of years
and he's just gonna come down the highway a couple of hours to Chicago,
but obviously should not be counting on any of that. So so yeah,
so we'll see. It's kind of a weird spot to be and I do
think the team should be okay. I think they should be better than they
were last year, but you never know. With the Chicago Balls, I've
tried to get out of the business of criticizing teams for what they don't do
necessarily just because it diverges from what I would do. In this case,
however, I feel like they've leaned too much on like sort of the look
at what we were with Lonzo when Lonzo's just like, you can't factor him
in anymore. It's sad, it sucks, but you can't factor him in.
And it does feel like The two things that stand out to me is
it does feel like they miss an opportunity just because no one else like really
tried to tear it down. And when you look at the trade market right
now, where nothing's happening with Dame or James Harden or Siakam like if you
had de Rosa or Lavine on there. Those are real like gets that teams
would give you things. And so I and Voots was already a free agent.
You couldn't moved on from him, you had some other free agents.
It felt like a natural pivot point. However, if they didn't do that,
that's fine. They didn't make a single bad contract. The Foots deal
might be a little rich, then the salary cap is going up. Worst
case scenario, that deal's fine this year. You have some nice matching fodder
over the next couple of years. In trades, what really gets me is
like they're going to duck the tax again. I think has them like three
hundred thousand into it. And if we set the over under on like you
know, are they going to use the disabled player exception that they got for
Alonzo Ball And it's just no, they could, Like I think there will
be teams I'll be willing to send someone into that, but they won't.
Yeah, I mean they have that. They haven't have the hard cap so
that, but they still have that. They still have like half their mid
level, they still have their bi annual. Of course, again, they
can't use all of that because they do have the hard cap form using part
of their mid level on Chevon Carter, but still there they have like ten
nine to ten million of wiggle room if they were actually willing to go into
the text and like use it for whatever a trade with the DP. Again,
they still have that part of that mid level. Again there's now there's
really not many guys left on the board. But but yeah, they basically
did like the cheapest thing they could possibly do with these contracts. Just basically
yeah, they were basically right at the tax line. And again, it
doesn't matter where they are at now. They just gotta get under by the
end of the year. And you would assume that that's going to be the
case given just how close they are, that you could dump some type of
salary super easily down the road and probably get under. So uh yeah,
the big things just yeah, you made the point about this, like the
they talked themselves into the belief about like the team with Lonzo and you can't
believe in that. And then the problem with that is that they just like
haven't done that much, Like they finally made a few editions here, but
they just haven't done enough to the compliment and supplement the talent they have over
the last couple of years they made and they had the big off season and
then it was like three transaction periods of like nothing, like no trade the
two it was when they were good two seasons ago. Their trade deadline move
was signing Tristan Thompson off the waiver wire like nothing, and then like the
off season the next offseason after that, it was that year, right,
that was what they make sure. Yeah, and then like last offseason was
Andre Drummond and Gore and Dragons, which is like Dragons was good for like
a month and then he ended up leaving. Drummond was fine, Drumon's a
fine backup center, totally fine move, but just like just like the bare
minimum additions. So it's like they they seem to like believe in this core,
but they just have not like done anything to like make it better,
and like they're just banking on contin continuity and like they're young guys getting better,
but that hasn't happened to the degree that it's needed. Again, what
the Carter and Craig moves are solid. Those are strong, solid, just
like good contracts. These are. Carter was awesome last year for the Bucks,
I'm I don't know what what. I'm surprised the Bucks did not trying
to bring them back. I'm not sure what their situation was. My guess
is they wanted someone who actually is a playmaker, but then they proceeded not
really to add that player. Yeah, I thought they had an overall good
off season, but I'm sure they just didn't want to pay the tax like
the implications of bringing him back. I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, so
solid moves in a vacuum. And like, again, I think they should
improve the team. And like I also do think they're baking. I think
they do think like they went whatever they went, fourteen and nine and Patrick
Beverly, they loved talking about how good they were, Uh in the part
of the season NBA season that does not matter. After the All Star break
they were we were fourteen and nine after signing Patrick Beverly, and I think
they probably think, well, you know, like Javon Carters can be an
even better version of Patrick Beverly, Tory Craig will help us too, and
like we'll like take that and then we'll just be even better than it.
They could be really good. Who knows, maybe they will be. Maybe
they'll surprise, but like again, so many of those games and like March
late February, March April, and just like just does not matter. You
just can't. You can't put much stock into it. And I think they
might and they think that they're gonna be like pretty good because of that.
So no, this is not going to be an entire podcast where I crap
all over the bulls because I am fascinated feel if you too, because DGR
podcast is often craftic all over the balls. But well, I mean there's
a lot of criticism here, but their defense is fascinating me. In the
past few years. Their ball pressure is absurd even without lines of ball.
I think if you watch too, like a lot of the stuff they can
do away from the ball. And I think Patrick Williams improved a great deal
there last year, especially when you're looking at when he was on during the
times where he was on lower uses guys helping off the corner, like I
felt like he was really disruptive. Is there like any other special secret sauce
that goes into why their defense is just like they they you look at their
personnel and it's no, this doesn't necessarily make sense, and like they not
only do they forced turnovers, but they do it without fouling a ton,
Like what is there something about this defense that flies under the radars to why
it's so good? Is it? And also is it sustainable? If you
scale ahead of this season, it's like, well, maybe Carusoe needs to
play more than twenty three minutes a game on average, Like can we sustain
this? So like I thought all year the defense was just like total smoking
mirrors and like there were times where I feel like we're like it when it
really mattered it kind of And I was also tracking throughout the year there was
a stretching in the season where teams where just could not make three pointers against
them. They were giving up a lot of good looks from three and teams
just they were they were like under like I think holding teams like twenty in
the twenty mid to like high twenty percentage and like that's a lot of fuck
shooting look because like whatever, I know, you could close out on guys,
but a lot of I know, a lot of three points shooting like
variants, like it's just straight up luck. And there was a stretch there
but where it was but like they were shooting like for the season ended up
shooting thirty five percent on corner threes, which is the lowest marketing league.
And it's like, right, like the Bulls weren't like forcing like the worst
corner three point attempts in the league or something like that exactly. So like,
I think there was some shooting variants luck there, But what's still like
over a full season, you still end up with the top ten defense.
You're obviously doing something right. You mentioned the point of the tax stuff,
and I think a lot of it starts there. I mean, you have
Boots as your center. You know, Boots is at your traditional He's not
gonna be protecting the rim blocking a ton of shots. Uh, He's decent
enough positionally, he usually knows where to be that he can be at least.
Okay, you have pretty quick hands and all that. So like,
yeah, good rebounding, ending possession. The bull is a good defensive rebounding
team, like I think for the most part, at least with Voots out
there for sure, and like, so like selling out on getting defensive rebounds,
I don't. They weren't very good in transition, so I think like
they hurt their offense. I think by kind of selling out on defense sometimes.
I think that was probably seemed like part part of their strategy. And
they also didn't get many offensive rebounds, which was for their offense. Not
that that matters much, but defensively, you got Boots, you have Zach
and Demorrow. Like you think you're top three guys. Those are guys playing
so many minutes together that you're not going to be able to put together at
top ten defense. But yeah, play Alex Crusile a lot of minutes and
he is just ridiculous. You talk about do they need to play it more.
I don't know if they really can. I just think the way he
plays, he just gets hurt naturally just because he plays so hard and he's
always all over the place. But I mean, and Patrick Beverley, I
make fun of Patrick Beverley, but like he's still a pretty good defender at
least at the point of attack, being just a men us an annoying player
there. Kobe White got better. I mean again, you bring in Carter
and soon we're still there too. I know he like didn't take a step
offensively. Yeah, yeah, I was like, I know with the point
of attack, like Trey, He's given Trey Young like a lot of problems
in the past. Yeah, you mentioned Patrick Williams. Patrick Williams has gotten
better. He can guard bigger guys, He's not the greatest and small guarding
smaller guys. He's just not that quick. But like because I know they've
tried him on, like he like Devin Booker, Devin Booker, Rose everybody,
but like there have been some rough they've tried him on, like Booker
and it just does not go well. But like so many guards smaller games,
guys usually not great. But yeah, Pat has gotten a lot better
defensively, so like like if you're starting whatever they were starting Beverly and like
Pat at the end of the season and like they were pretty good there,
and I mean you play Cruiso a lot of minutes. I was pretty good
there. And that's what they did with Lonzo. Their idea was if we
have whatever, just two guys or a couple of guys or even one guy
just hammering the point of attack and just like disrupting there, forcing the turnovers
that that will cover for the lack of like whatever Zach and Damar and Vooch
behind them, and it has kind of worked. Like I mean, they
were again a top ten defense they forced turnovers and that, and that kind
of held them up a bit because their offense sucks and so was terrible last
season. It's so funny, just like you think of a team again with
those with Vos, Damar and Zach, like, oh, we're gonna be
like a really good offensive team, maybe not the best defensively, and it's
just the that was the complete opposite. Last season. They were a top
ten defense and a bottom ten offense, which is just kind of crazy,
so sustainable going to this season, I would expect, I guess, maybe
a little regression, but again, they added a few good decent defensive pieces.
Pat continues to get better. I don't think it's gonna be like an
all of a sudden fall apart to like a terrible defensive team. We'll see,
like with Booch, if he loses a step with Damar, the same
way with Zach, I mean Zax. I don't think Zach's as bad of
a defender as like people used to think he was, or as he used
to be. He's gotten at least better enough where he's like usually pretty decent
off ball can still be kind of spacey moments where like those the terrible moments
just stand out. I think it's right exactly, but like overall, he's
fine. So like so yeah, like, like is what I start him
to finish in the top ten again? No, but like again I think
they could probably finish top half. And if they did finish top ten,
I guess it wouldn't totally shock me. Again, So, so, yeah,
is there and you mentioned like their top three players, you have those
three guards on the floor last year, and your offense ranks in like the
forty percentile, but you end up in like you're one of the more efficient
half court offenses during those minutes, So you have I think they ended up
ninth and a half court efficiency overall. I can't remember exactly. Is there
low hanging fruit to get them to actually be a better offensive team than they
were last season with the personnel that they have? Is it the things that
stand out to me? And so, like the best way it might be
framed this way to you is can they up their three point volume reasonably or
can they do like pretend like they're gonna push the ball, Like they forced
a lot of turnovers and they're one of the slowest teams getting into their offense
after forcing turnovers. It's the same same thing for defensive rebounds. I know
that this isn't a team that's gonna live in transition, just like you have
Vouch and you have DeMar De Rozen, but like you have a bunch of
other guys that could and could you at least maybe just like I know,
deliberate methodical sets or just Demard Rosen's calling card, and that's how he's going
to really carve you up. But your offensive success has also been it feels
like to me predicated on like what might be unsustainably like really ridiculous shop making
and decision making from DeMar de Rosen to this point, who's now thirty four
And so can you reasonably with this personnel change enough with how you play on
offense that you're demonstratively better or is there not a lot of hope there for
that? I mean, the three point rate is just the obvious one,
and that's why they went and signed him on Carter Again, he's not like
a high high volume guy, but I mean just a guy who will be
willing if he can get up five to six threees a game and if he
hits forty some percent, again huge. They need to get Patrick Williams three
point volume up as well. He improved it last season, still not I
think he was still under four times per game. He might have been like
three points something I can't I'd love to know what he would be if he
didn't like dribble out of three spin turns or whatever he likes to do.
Like I know, like a lot of people would love to see Pat just
like whatever, become get more on ball reps, blah blah blah. But
on this end, I know we'll probably talk more about Pat later in general,
like on this team with the guys they have, Like he just needs
to be bomb and threes. He's been shooting over forty percent. If you're
gonna be shooting that wall from threes, you need to get more up when
you get the opportunities take six a game again, like him and Carter would
be great if they could take five or six per game and if they still
hit at forty percent, that's that's amazing, that's awesome. Craig again not
a super high volume guy, but he's a guy who should be willing to
show. I mean, Craig takes the spot of guys like I mean,
like Derek Jones Junior, and like Javon take green energy guys. I mean,
I love in a vacuum kind of like what those guys brought to the
table. But they just had so many guys in recent years who just would
pass up open three. It's just they would not take three. It's just
not high rate three point guys. And you just can't I have that many
of the same guys. I'm the team like there was just like the roster
construction was just so bad, so many of these defense first energy players who
can't shoot threes, and like it's fine to have like one or two,
but when you have like four or five of those guys getting minutes, I
just you end up with the worst three point right in the league several years
in a row. And even though you have Damar, Zach and Booch put
you look at their individual numbers and like the numbers all their individual seasons looked
really good. Last season, like efficiency wise, I mean, Booch had
like a really good efficiency season, Zach was awesome after the All Star break
and overall good season. Tomorrow wasn't quite as good as he was two years
ago, but he was still really good. But then he looked at like
they're them three playing together, and their offensive rating is mid as hell.
It's just not good because they just don't take enough threes and the guys around
them don't take enough threes, and so that's the big one. I'm curious
if Tomorrow will ever like I feel like he's taken a few more than he
used to in the last couple. I mean, we know he's never been
a big three point shod Like, would Demorrow be willing to even get up
to three a game? I don't know, He's he's just been so long.
Just the mid range may haven and he's awesome at it, but again,
it would just be nice to even turn one or two of those into
maybe like an open corner three or something. So yeah, like a three
point rate is huge. They don't ever like crash the offensive glass. I
think I think they sell what's that Tory Craig will do it, yeah,
yeah, and like I mean like Julian Phillips who probably won't play it,
but like he gets offensive rebounds. But like, I think they sell out
to help their defense and not get offensive rebounds. And there's some value in
that. Of course, their defense was good, but they don't really get
many extra opportunities on offense. It's like that hurts. And the transition stuff
you mentioned, like losing Lonzo hurt there for sure, because I believe when
Lonzo was there, like I mean, you know, he's always looking ahead
that the long passes ahead. And you have guys like so you have some
athletes. I mean, Zach Lavine should be a guy who thrives in transition.
So like losing Lonzo and just like the guy who is looking to push
the ball, it'd be I mean, Kobe White, you'd think be a
I who can thrive and transition. I owe a little bit too, so
like yeah, like Damar and Voots, Sean can be running up and down
the court like crazy. But you have some guys who you do it.
Like we'll see if like Dale and Terry plays. Dale and Terry was terrible,
Lash I mean barely barely played last year. I want to say it
was terrible Lasher. He barely played because he wasn't ready to play. He
was bad in summer league. I don't know if he's an NBA player,
but like if he plays, that's what he needs to do. Like he's
just got to be running around like a madman and getting out in transition and
get some easy baskets because he sure has helly and scorn in the half court,
so like, so yeah, that's the kind of thing where the low
hanging fruits a good way to put it. Can you get some easy baskets
transition up that three point rate? I'm not expecting to come out and be
like bomb and forty three is a game, but they can't consistently just be
under thirty and being the lowest three point rate team in the NBA. The
same thing will happen again where these guys have solid seasons but it all comes
together into an offense that just isn't any good. Would you bet very quickly
against or for Damar DeRozan extension getting done? So Mark Eversley mentioned that,
oh, we'd love Damar here long term and if they love what he's done,
I actually I would lean towards four. I think they might try to
line him up with Vooch so like two or three years, because I think
they just believe in like keeping this team competitive. Like, I just don't
think they want to really blow it up. Wouldn't surprise if they don't give
him one and kind of see how it plays out no, but like he's
just been so good, and I think like they think that the team is
in a spot where they can be decent enough where they could be competitive for
a few years and then you maybe go from there. The number, I
would have no idea, Like would it be something similar to what was he
got, like three eighty one on like the last one, Like would they
give him something like that? Again, he probably wants more. I mean,
he's had two great seasons, Like he probably thinks he should be getting
a bigger one, like three one hundred. So like like, I mean,
I wouldn't really want to give him that. I personally would not do
it. So like do I think the Bulls will look into it and possibly
do it? I would lean towards yes. I don't know what I would
do if the numbers, if it was the same number that he got,
I might consider it, like three and eighty one, three and eighty two,
just because it might give you more outs if you decide, like with
Voods under contract, with you under contract, if you want to make moves
next summer, he doesn't just leave in free agency, you haven't under a
contract, but with his age, that number could get dicey really quickly.
Right, Yeah, that's why, Like I mean with his max I think
exception, it's like four like one forty or fifty year, Like you just
can't give him that. He like, he has earned an extension very clearly.
He's earned another really solid deal. It's like I don't really want the
Bulls to be the team that give it, that gives it to him again.
If the money is right, I can I can be like whatever,
like Dmorrow, Like I said, Demorrow has earned it. He's been so
good the last comers better than I could ever have imagined. But just like
lining up this like this Corda and like paying these guys into there when Damar
is gonna be thirty seven or thirty and Foods gonna be thirty five, and
they just haven't won anything. And it's like, like you said, there,
it could be some value there in terms of whatever, having the contracts
that are to trade for something. But then you do worry, like what
if it actually goes bad? If you give Themorrow like an extension this year,
but then like things go bad this year, then you're stuck with Voochigan
for three years. If you have Tomorrow like on the books for three years
and you're just like, ah, we's gonna keep doing this. So,
like will they be able to trade him depending on what the number is?
I don't know, so it is I think it is a dice situation.
I don't think I would do it in general, like unless the numbers just
really makes sense. So yeah, I have so many questions that basically just
boiled down to where are you out with Patrick Williams? So I'm trying to
see if we can boil them down to like four rapid fire ish sub questions.
All right, First one is what impressed you the most about his development
last season? Probably, I mean he has become much better defensively. And
then probably I him impressed that the three point shot has kind of held up
as it's he's still kind of in a situation where I don't really trust them
shooting. Is he just does not seem confident shooting then, but like he
shot forty some percent, so like I am, I did not think that
that was gonna hold up on higher volume than it did. So it's probably
that that and the fact that like he's a legit like pretty solid three and
D player. Again, like the problem is the other stuff. And actually
becoming like big time, high impact player. But in terms of the defense,
yeah, he's gotten a lot better. It's been impressive. The three
point shooting has got stayed strong with higher volume. It's just like then taking
that next step after that, what are you watching most closely for? And
I'm assuming it's offensive related as he goes into the year four. Yeah,
I mean again, the big thing is just what the aggressiveness, consistent aggressiveness,
and like it's almost cliche at this point, and it is. I
do get how it's tough, and like you're a young player, you're playing
with Tamar, Zach and Bousch, and you just like feel like you need
to take the back seat. But at some point, like whatever you're in
year four now, man, like you need to start whatever, grab the
bull by the horn and like just consistently have that more aggressive mindset as an
offensive player. And who knows about We'll see what type of if they give
him more opportunities on the ball, and so many fans of clamor and run
more pick and rolls for them, blah blah blah blah. And even even
if they don't do that, there are times where he can just be more
aggressive the three point shooting. Don't pass up three point shots. If the
guys are attacking on closeouts, drive hard at the best and get more aggressive.
There be more aggressive attacking the offensive glass. I mentioned the bulls just
like don't not great getting extra opportunities. There are like random times where he
just goes crazy on the offensive glass and like throws on a put back dunk.
Would love to see more of that. You can get some dirty points
that way. Like he's a pretty big dude six seven, six eight strong,
Like you should be able to do some some of that dirty work inside
more cutting stuff like that. So like it's not necessarily just like here we
need to give Patrick Williams the ball and like people get out of the way
or like run more pros. Guess just not gonna just not gonna happen.
But like there are ways where he can be more aggressive offensively choosing the spots,
not being passive when it's comes to turning down shots and getting better.
Besides that, though, we also need to get better at rebounding in general.
Like I mentioned, he can occasionally be just like a sick offensive rebound
with putbacks, but you look at his overall rebounding numbers and they stick.
They're not great for like what they should be, so like some of it
is here, Like whatever, he's garden guys on the perimeter. He's not
always in the best spot for rebounds. But like, uh, like if
you're that size in the NBA with like pretty good athleticism, like you should
be grabbing more than three or four rebounds a game. You just you just
need to. So like I would love to see him get better on the
glass as well. Like I don't know if he's ever gonna be like a
big playmaking guy. I know there was like all the stuff coming into legal.
You know, he played some point guard like in high school. Like
I just don't know that that's ever really gonna be there for him. But
whatever, He's just consistently like been around the same like like based numbers like
all three years, like nine ten points a game, four or five rebounds
a game. He'll get like a steal or a block a game, and
like maybe an assist doing that said, like I would love to get that
up to like fifteen and seven, fifteen and eight, maybe a couple assists
per game, get a couple of stocks per game, Like that would be
great and that's just a matter of I think just being a consistently a bit
more aggressive all over the court, and that would definitely help the Bulls like
just take another step forward, because I mean, because of where they're there
with the main guys that they have, the core they have, like we
know what Zak is, we know what Tomorrow, we know what Fouch is,
Like, they don't just have that much more upward mobility on this roster.
He is one of the few guys like if he legitimately would would take
a leap, that would at least make the Bulls a bit more dangerous in
general. And you kind of already answered this, I'll rephrase it, but
like we can't expect him to get the on ball opportunities that everyone's clambering forward
the way this roster is built, and so it seems like the most likely
way for him to level up would be to make those quicker decisions when he's
actually getting the ball where it's firing up the threes or even look, if
you want to see more from him, you even kind of alluded to this,
like he needs to put more pressure on the basket. His rim frequency
has declined in every season that he's been in the league, and it's like
you watch him like when you he puts the ball on the floor. Yeah,
he's not really comfortable finishing with both hands, but he seems comfortable and
dribbling with both hands. He wants to get into those baseline jumpers or we've
seen him kind of go into like the it I don't want to compare the
two, but it is like Kauai ask the aesthetics of like his turnaround jumper,
Like if you're just catching and making quick decisions in those situations, that
might be the pathway to him leveling up on the offensive end and increasing his
scoring totals. It's just like make those faster decisions and yeah, I mean
like, yeah, get up more threes. Yeah. Sometimes it's just like
it's not the process. Time just isn't quite there fast enough. And when
you have like the record scratches and stuff like that, it's just it hurts,
and it hurts the overall offense when you have a good look and then
you just you hesitate, you pass it up and then just like the defense
recovers and then you're just kind of and then you're getting end up left with
a with a tough shot at the end of the clock or something like that.
I do. I do think there are probably still are some opportunities to
get him maybe some more on ball ups if he's playing with bench units.
I know they like playing like demor with the bench So like you're not gonna
like take the ball out of Deamorrow's hands all the time and like have him
go stand in the corner to get Patrick Williams a lot of reps, but
like you can give him some like again, like his development. It's just
like if this team is going to take the next step, like him being
a lot better, it's going to be part of It's like you might as
well give him some chances. So like I would like to see them do
at least a few more things with him and whatever with the pick and rolls,
whether it's him handling the ball, whether it's him being a role man
doing more than they do that they do do that sometimes, just getting him
more involved than in general and Bill Billy Donovan. Uh, there's been a
thing a lot of decent amount of Christen that is fair about his offense and
his schemes. And I mean going back to the Oklahoma City thunder Days where
he's kind of lets the Stars do do the do their thing, and we've
kind of seeing that with the Bowls at times where like it ends up being
DeMar and zactional and that's kind of and they can turn in a lot of
NBA teams in general. The Stars, especially at the end of the games,
they're gonna get the ball. They're gonna io and like Zecond Tomorrow,
really good io players. You mentioned like half court offense and like you look
at like ISO like efficiency, like those guys are both really good, but
like burn overall offense succeed, they have to diver fy a bit more to
get more three pointers up, as we kind of talked about earlier, So
like if you do add a bit more wrinkles a little more diversity in their
offense. And Patrick Williams would definitely ideally play a big part of that.
I've heard nothing about an extension for him. Would you expect him to get
one? And what's like a if you're the front office, like what's the
number that you would be comfortable giving him right now? Yeah, there really
has been like nothing out there about it. I feel like I would be
surprised if he gets one, just because, like I think He probably thinks
that he could have like a big season and like turn that into like a
much bigger deal than the Bulls are willing to give him right now. I
remember Keith Smith what he did, like an article at Sparrick or whatever,
and I think it was like predicting, like the whatever the rookie year extensions.
He had five years one hundred million, because now with those fifty years
you can it doesn't have to be a max. It's not that designated rookie
extension anymore. And like and me on the podcast Cashing Sperations being my coast
rookie o'donald, we talked about that number and like, I think I'd be
fine with that, like five years, one hundred twenty million a year with
the cab going up for like a young player still a twenty one twenty two
who is pretty good. Like that's fine, Like twenty million a year for
a guy who can play three and d for you for the next second percent
of the cap. Yeah, that's like I'd be totally I'd be totally fine
and something like that. I feel like he thinks, I don't know if
the Bulls are actually offering somebody that. Again, there's been like no reporting
about and extension talks. They're like and I just don't think. I don't
know if he'd be wire going to take it. Maybe he would just get
that to get that guaranteed money for five years. But I feel like he
thinks probably thinks like and his agents probably like, dude, if you come
out and have a really good season, help this team turn it around,
you're gonna get maybe five like one forty one fifty, like if he has
a legit breakout season. So I feel like that it just seems like it's
a hard h I just don't know if they're gonna like find a match there
between like what they're looking for right now. So I'd be kind of surprised
if he got one. He would be a player I know we didn't see
it this year and restricted free agency, but like he would be a player
that I would think that teams would tie up their cap space four even if
he's basically the same player this season to be like, well there's untapped miss
three box potential here. Yeah, he's still just so young. I mean
when he came into the when the Bulls drafted him, I think he was
like the first or like maybe the second youngest guy in the draft. Again,
I think he's twenty one, twenty two, so he's still you're yeah,
you're you'd be getting him for the next whatever, into his pro not
even into his prime yet, basically is up until his prime years on this
next contract, So like, yeah, and if like you, they could
look at the Bulls and be like, you know, this team was a
mess. Uh, he just didn't get enough opportunity we can use. We
can untap that potential, or we could tap into that untapped potential and maybe
find that player who becomes like an all sort of guy. So I could
absolutely see teams talking themselves into that. Uh. Just was like kind of
the situation he's been in. Who has a bigger role next year in your
opinion, Iota soon move or Kobe White. I would guess Kobe, which
is kind of funny, but it's like at the end of not this past
two year seasons ago when Iowa was a rookie and he was kind of like
making waves a rookie, uh, and it looked like I was just kind
of going to pass Kobe by as like the one of the main guards off
the bench. But now like Kobe got a lot better last sea. Towards
the end of last season, you look at his numbers, like they weren't
they don't look at anything special, and like he's still pretty streaky as a
shooter, but like he just like tightened a lot of things up as a
player overall, just like made him better. Says a role player. I
don't. I don't think he's ever gonna be anything that special, but like
as a bench guard was I just had a really solid end of the season.
I again regressed shooting, regressed talking about record scratches. Iowa record scratches
way too much and it's painful to watch sometimes. And like I was still
a really strong defensive player, point of attack stuff, and like it pretty
good there. It just offensively, uh just not quite there. And I
mean the Bowls just need more, they need three point shooting and they're on
their team. So like Kobe was one of the few like there was I
was not sure of like Kobe was gonna stick around. But well, kind
of how he finished the year last year, because he's kind of been in
trade rumors for a while that nothing ever came close. But I guess I
was kind of out on Kobe a couple of years ago. Kind of I
wouldn't say like I'm super back in but I think he's pretty good. That
the extension you got is like I think it's three years, like up to
forty million with unlike the incentives in there. So it's like I think base
twelve million a year, three thirty six totally fine for a pretty solid bench
guard who's also still very young, who gets up threes again, he's still
streaky. I would love to get him in those high thirties percentage wise from
threes. He still kind of goes has those games where he can be on
fire, and then the next like three games he goes like one for fifteen.
But still he's done enough with the rest of his game that he's not
like a total liability anymore. If he's shooting one of eight from three,
he can he's tighten the handle bit. He can be pretty good in transition
if he wants me. He's fast. We know the passing's gotten a little
better, the defense has gotten a little better. So he's turned himself in
a pretty solid, like all around bench guard and just I mean maybe Io
turns things around, but like at least definitely to start the year Kobe's definitely
ahead of him in the rotation for sure. I think I'd agree with you.
Mostly. I love Io like I'm still just a really big believer in
him because of how well he can guard up. But when you look at
a team that needs three point volume, like, hey, go with the
guy who shot thirty nine percent on catching, and I would love I'm an
Illinois guy, so like I've been watching Io for years. I have an
Iowa Illinois jersey. It's like I have an ioa Bowls jersey toohim, like
nothing more of that. I would love to see Io bounce back. Proved
me wrong about this contract that he got three years, twenty one million and
become a big part of the rodation. It was it was tough watching with
the end of the last season, but I feel like he lost all confidence
in his jumper and he just didn't get and his menus dwindled. The bits
like, I would love to see him turn around. I know he's a
hard worker. Again, Chicago guy went to Illinois starred there, so I
would love to see him turn things back. I was again the Bulls just
don't have any young guys got on their team. They like have high ceilings.
Not that Io and like Kobe have really high ceilings anymore, but if
those guys can turn around and develop like that does help the Bulls chances of
at least being a team that could maybe be somewhat interesting in the East.
I did some light investigating into Julian Phillips specifically for this podcast. It just
it stood out to me that the Bulls gave up a twenty six and twenty
seven second round or to get him. It looks like his physical profile kind
of pops when you look at his athleticism and how we could be moved around
defensively. Any early impressions of just like Julian Phillips the player and could he
just given the relative dearth of wing depth on this teams where to stumble into
some minutes for them? So I know, Mark Eversley said, they're really
not expecting that he came on straight upset. It like, we're not expecting
him to do much this season. You never know. Guys get hurt,
Guys are bad. If the season goes south, maybe he plays more.
I'm not a big draft guy, so like I didn't watch him much like
a Tennessee. I know, Okay, my co host were Kid Donald hated
the pick. I know a lot of people hated the pick. When I
saw the pick was made, I was, first of all, I was
excited they actually traded into the draft because they had like no picks. I
was like, Oh, the Bulls actually made a trade. They traded in
the draft, and they take this guy who's Julian Phillips. I went and
looked at his like stats, I'm like, oh, we shot twenty percent
from three and they pick pick another project wing who can't shoot for a kid.
Thanks guys, so like, yeah, like defensively, he seems like
he's got some potential. They're like, I didn't. I honestly did not
watch some league that closely to like have like a huge impression he. I
know, he had like one game where he hit a few threes and I
was like, oh, maybe this could be interesting. I'm pretty sure the
rest of the games he didn't really shoot that well, but like offensive,
rebounding, maybe defense, maybe like in terms of getting into the rotation,
I just don't know, Like, is he like you would think Dale and
Terry is ahead of him, maybe, like maybe there's a battle there to
get minutes of dal and Terry which just so rough he I mean, he
the fact that he could not get on the court last season for this team.
I know, the Bulls are actually pretty healthy injury wise, Like you
pick a guy number eighteen and you're like mid all season and you're and you
get I mean, I don't even he might have played one hundred minutes.
I think he was. He might have been lost. Christian Brown. It
was like him and Johnny Davis were like the lowest Johnny first on picks last
year. Yeah, I mean, because he had the Bulls that could I
think right behind him, it was like for it was right before him,
it was Taris and which would have been like an awesome pick for them.
Right after him, it was like Christian Brown, like Walker, Walker Kessler,
and here's Dale and Terry who can't get on the court for this mid
ass team. And then like in some league he was also like I said,
I didn't like, wasn't like watching every minute of summerly like well when
I did see and like what I know what other people saw, like it
was just an a static just his basic sets. He's just a really rough
offensive player, Like you just can't expect him to do much in the half
court and like, okay, energy guy defensive again, like him and Daleen
and Julian Phillips just kind of seemed very similar to the Energy guys can't really
shoot the ball, maybe they can help defensively and transition stuff like that.
So like maybe the again, maybe those guys battle it out to see because
I don't know if they'll really be in the rotation, but like maybe the
next guy in the rotation if there is an injury or something like that.
So I'd have no expectations for Julian Phillips this year. If he surprises great.
Is it a concern that this team really doesn't like even I consider Tory
Craig and Patrick Williams, like maybe not wings but like combo forwards and Patrick
Williams is probably a way, But like, is just the lack of wings
and actual concern for this team? Are we getting too bogged down by position
and size? And it's hey, look at all these Yeah they're smaller,
but Desu and Mooin, Alex Caruso and Javonne Carter, They're gonna like probably
like among the best screen navigators in the game right now. Like the defense
is gonna be fine anyway, it's just they don't have a lot of wings.
Yeah, I do wish they had like one, at least one more
solid wing on the team. Like you look at like their end of the
roster, it's just like kind of like their top ten is like I think,
fine, top ten eleven maybe fine, But then you get to like
Dale and Phillips, and like they signed Terry Taylor, who was a forward
but like not really a wing. I guess, like I don't even know
what you would call it Terry Taylor. I don't know. I couldn't tell
you that much about Terry Taylor, but like whatever, And then like Carl
Jones at the end of the roster against South Sudan FIA World couple legend Carl
Jones, but like and also lu also Julie MVP Carl Jones, but again
that's another small guard. So like I would have loved yet to have gotten
a little more size on the roster. Whether it was another just like big
or another another bigger wing. Who that would have been, I don't really
know at this point, but like I do think it's somewhat of a concern.
Was that I gott I feel like at the Bulls rebounding setskin because I
feel like it was generally okay, but there I feel like there were times
in certain matchups where you see they would just get pounded, and like Patch
just not a good enough free bounder, and like Billy, I mean Billy
loves I feel like playing small and playing a bunch of guards together, so
like that seems like it just kind of plays right into him. Like I
do wish they had at least like one more guy who was like six eight,
six, nine sixty seven whatever around patrickal in size. So are there
any dates the cookie cutter portion of the podcast, so everybody get excited.
These are the questions we ask and every single look ahead. Are there any
strengths, upsides, or weaknesses or concerns about this team that we haven't covered
yet you think need to be addressed? So I want to I do want
to give a shout out to Crusoe again because I feel like I just haven't
really given him as proper due. And we talked about the defense and how
good it was, a lot of it honestly might just be how ridiculously good
it is. I don't have like the exact advanced stats in front of me,
but like there's a lot of advanced stats that show Crusoe it's like arguably
the best defensive player in the NBA or like one of the most impactful at
least maybe at least for like guards. Uh, he's just ridiculously good.
Again, can't he can't play huge, huge minutes because he just gets hurt.
It's the way he plays. But like, I think Russo almost single
handedly he like helps the Bulls defense be ridiculously good. And he is just
insanely good at just so much defensively, whether it's the ball pressure, getting
around screens, guarding guys that are bigger than him. So I just wanted
to give Alex Cruiso is his proper dude as because he I mean, he
made first seam all defense is. You're right, he did get his due.
But like, I don't think people realize just how good he actually is
defensively, And I think I think it's just a big part of how good
the Bulls defense was last season the last couple of seasons is better being better
than expected. I think there's a lot of it was just Alex Cruiso being
absolutely awesome in a terror and he's just really fun to watch play defense.
I made a joke yesterday about how whatever Lebron's recruiting all these guys, all
these stars to play for Team USA, but you know you need guys who
can, like whatever play a role twelfth man, bringing out having Alex Caruso
via on Team USA just to all the stars aren't gonna want to play defense
and they're gonna have all these like thirty five forty year olds on this team,
bringing Ac to just go fucking hog wild defensively to the Olympics, go
win the gold medal. That's not gonna happen. But Ac is awesome.
So I think I just wanted to make sure to give him his due,
And that's really just play up, like how hit that strength of his defensively
and how that's helped the Bulls otherwise, like I mean strength wise, Like
we know we talked about their defense like offensively, like I mean, it
will be I am kind of curious to see. I think how they use
Booch was a big talking point on like the Bulls broadcast, and just like
I think there's some fans it's like the Bulls don't use use Vouchino. They
would have. They traded so much to get him. He was at twenty
five and ten game and they trade for him and now he's like a seventeen
and ten guy consistently, but he often disappears in games, especially late,
because it becomes the Zach and themar show. Vooch had an interesting like he
brought that up and he had an interview Jake Fisher if yeah, it was
sports recently, like talking about the usage and like going down and like again
it gets hammered on every broadcast like the Bulls need to play through Bouch,
they need to ponder inside blah blah blah blah blah. I'm like, I
think there's possibly something to it, but like I don't want the Bulls that
from the team that just like is playing through Vouch all the time, like
pounding it in the post and become like a nineties team again with like that
and like just the isolation stuff, like you're just not gonna win that way.
But I am curious see if, like especially with the contract they gave
him, and like I am curious what they like if they promised me anything,
but we're you know, we're gonna get you more touches this year.
This is we're gonna running you through so I'm curious see if that's kind of
something that they try to change up going forward here with this offense. I
don't think I necessarily think that would really fix that much. But I mean,
Mooch didn't have like a better than I think a lot of people will
realize season in terms of his like efficiency, He's like two point shooting,
Like, yeah, it was around the career highs, finishing around the basket,
his mid range shot was on fire. Three point shooting was still kind
of okay. It was better than it was two years ago. So you
get about Chicago where he just comes, he takes less, he takes few
or threes. It's just thirty four point nine percent from your center is fine.
Jack goes up to like six or seven thirty six. I think a
lot of people are like, well, he shouldn't just be hanging out and
shooting threes, and they need to get him in the post. They need
to pounder in the post, play inside out. I just don't know if
that's really going to be the answer here, Like he probably should take another
three or two per games because they need the volume so trying to occupy the
same space, right, So I'm curious see how they use him this season.
Other weaknesses, I think we've kind of gone through a lot of them.
Their offense sucked despite having these three alleged All Star caliber guys and this
I mean they had all good efficiency seasons. The three point shooting is just
a massive problem. There's only no hidden thing about that. They've been the
lowest three point rate team in the league despite like having decent percentages. They
just don't take enough, so like they just need to take more. Uh
So, Yeah, I don't think there's really anything else then that's like really
hidden about this team. There. They've been aggressively mediocre since on Zoe ball
got hurt, and for all the reasons we've kind of mentioned already. I
really wish that Carusoe could play more than like fifteen hundred minutes a season,
and I would also love for him to take more three point attempts. Right,
we'll just go down the list of the team on this, Like Zach
Lavine, he only wanted takes enough threes basically, and I would love Zach
to take more. Uh he should take him ten a game. It's one
of the best shooters in the league. Like, go take ten to three
points. And this was kind of a talking point last year, like because
there was I mean, there have been games where he had like a three.
I think he had like thirteen threes in a game a couple of seasons
ago or something crazy like that. Like I think he takes on like seven
or eight, which is fine. Like he's good at at taking the basket.
Obviously, I don't want him just like completely like only jack threes and
don't attack the basketball. He should be taking almost like no mid range shots.
I mean, you talk, you say whatever. I mean, obviously
there are times for mid range shots. But when you have DeMar there,
DeMar could be mister mid range. I don't want to go like total like
whatever whatever, well you have, it makes sense to be like, hey,
yeah, his skill set, he shouldn't be taking mid range shots except
for I mean again, at the end of games. It's gonna happen sometimes,
and there's value when that, when the game slows down at the end
of games in the playoffs, the mid range shot can become a lot more
valuable. Can still set defense, but for the most part, but this
offense to get better, Like Zach take ten plus three he's a game,
and then attack the basket. Otherwise and get to the free to the line.
We don't need to take in tough mid range shots outside of very few
situation And I feel like I had to look at it his like shot distribution
again, but I feel like he got a little better of about that.
But I know sometimes he still sometimes has that Kobe brain where I need to
get my mid range jay and he takes them. So yeah, I mean
when you mentioned the Crusoe three, is like, he's not that great,
but he's still certainly And it just kind of goes back to the point I
made earlier about how the Bowls have so many of these guys to the defensive
energy guys who just don't shoot through enough three so like, and Crusoe plays
into that. Us. Oh, I love Alex Crusoe is he's one of
the best defensive players in the league, but he's not that good offensively and
can hurt you sometimes because he's afraid to shoot. And he's just like,
isn't that great? He's okay in pick and roll, I don't like running
them with that much, and like he's going to the basket, it's not
gonna be that great for you. But he's just such a valuable defensive player
and he's awesome to watch. So yeah, more three is from like,
oh these guys, if we have to narrow it down to a ten man
rotation, it feels like there are nine locks and you can correct me if
I'm wrong, but I have Caruso, Lavigne, de Rosen, Williams Vouch,
Javon Carter, Kobe White, Tory Craig, and Andre Drummond as my
nine locks right now, and then the ten pot would be is it just
io at this point? Is there another? Probably? Like I said,
we'll see about like Dalen and Julian Phillips, like after again, after that's
like Carlin Jones, Terry Taylor. Am I missing somebody? There's some cool
some stupid team we'll be in going to see how the starting lineup that they
go with, because like they could start Crusoe, they could start Carter,
they could start Kobe. I kind of think they might start Carter, but
I'm not totally sure that I think there could be. I mean, Crusoe
is probably like the best overall player out of them, but I'm not sure
if they want to start him again, they might just bring have him in
that table. They could probably use he's a better passer than Javon Carter,
sort of bring him off the bench, especially if you're not planning on because
I guess Iowa is probably the better passer than Kobe at this point, but
neither of them are great, So Caruso might make sense coming off the bench.
Yeah, I think that's just my thoughts on that. Yeah, I
could haply to see that. And I was trying to think if Wilson on
the Bulls roster, and I forgot that Lonzo Ball is of course still on
this Bulls roster and holding up holding one of their spots, but in a
complete dead weight of twenty millions. So I think I named everybody. So
yeah, I think that nine is a lock. I think, yeah,
Iowa is probably will get minutes for sure, and then after that we'll see
you see about injuries. But Dylan and Julian Phillips, I just don't expect
to start the year in the rotation. It's like Dalen just such a project.
So raw still and Phillips, I think it's gonna be the same way.
So I think that tap ten makes sense. I would asume Patrick Williams
starts a power forward. I mean, I guess you can see maybe tour
if Billy wants to go with a veteran guy. But I mean, I
think you need to start Pat at the four and not Tory Craig and yeah,
and then I think the point guards so will be interesting because I think
Kobe like showed enough for I think he could at least be in a battle
for the starting point guard spot this season. Like I said, I don't
think I need of these guys. I would straight up give it to him,
and you'd maybe you'd try some different things out in training camp and preseason
and then make a decision from there out of Crusoe, Carter and Kobe.
This will of course be to some extent matchup dependent, but what do you
think ends up being their preferred closing five? All Right, So, looking
at the starting lineup, like I mentioned Carter starting, I would assume you
would want Carusoe closing though, like almost no matter what, just because I
mean, he's the best, arguably the best defensive guard in the league.
Like it's like him and Drew Holiday and Marcus Smart basically again, but some
of it could depend on, just like the matchups, how the game is
going, because they're again the Crusoe's three offense can also hurt you at times,
so like, so like would they I mean, and I've assumed Pats.
I mean the main three guys, the mid three, Zach, Dumar
and Booch. I'm probably gonna be closing most games. So then it's Pat
between Pat, Crusoe, Kobe and Carter most likely for the most part.
Again, there there could be times where if someone's riding the hot hand,
you go with that or something like that. But but then I would think
it will be Pat. You're gonna want him guarding some of the other team's
best whatever big wing players, and then Crusoe because he's already the best guard
in defensive guard in the league. So like, But I do think again,
if they're like there's situations where they really need to shooting out there,
I could see it being Carter or Kobe. You could also, I mean,
I could also would also not mind seeing them like downsides at times.
Again, Booch is having a rough game, Uh, you put Park Booch's
ass on the bench and maybe go a bit smaller and have Pat like the
five because I mean, in general, Zach and DeMar not getting bench close
games. Booch maybe probab probably not that like Zach and themar Socman. She's
like Zach got a benched one game last year and it caused the whole rookus
and like I mean generally he's one of your best players, like the Max
guy, Like he's not gonna be consistently sitting on the bench just not happenings.
Like I think it's just gonna be a mix and match around those three
of pet Caruso, Kobe and Jevon Carter. Is there a weirdo quirky wonky
lineup you want to see them try? Yeah, so I guess I kind
of mentioned the like play pad at the five. I haven't mentioned this in
the pod last year two playing Pad at the five, but like I think
we both had Patrick Williams at the pod. Give me some like like I
don't know if you want to go like a super all like wacky defensive lineup
that's like Pat Caruso Carter. I don't want if Craig and there Io Io
or Craig and then like you gonna need to have any stacker tomorrow out there
too, So like something like that, or you're just like super small but
just like Hounding defensively with yeah, with with Carter, with Crusoe, with
Craig or Io and something like that. And I would be interested to see
how that kind of lineup would work. Yeah, and I think that's pretty
I think maybe it might be the most interesting. I don't think like any
lineup with Booch would ever be like super weird or interesting, and like it's
probably just the smaller like yeah, bizarro small, super small lineups and like
Pat's got I've there have been occasional times where they've done that, but yeah,
I feel like Patristens get better at rebounding to be able to do that
from work studding periods. So this is stuff you probably can only do for
like super short periods of time, and in certain matchups of other teams are
doing that. But so yeah, super small defensive focus lineup with like one
of your offensive stars to kind of try to be the offensive hub. Would
I think be my answer here? That was literally mine, which is upsetting
that we overlapped on Max. I would have just had Patrick Williamsthing give me
Io Javon, I'll throw zach Lavine in there, one of your stars,
like you said, and then Alex Caruzo. But I'd be interested to see,
like what just happens if we throw out the all guard lineup. It's
like, right, Mars played four, he's about to play five. Then
we'll throw Zack in there, and then we'll have grown on out crusso io
give me it. Yeah, So as we record this, they're over under
is set at thirty seven point five. Would you hit the over the under
on that? And where do you kind of see them stacking up in the
East? And I guess the easiest way to do that would be, like,
how many teams are you prepared right now to say are better than the
bulls? Because I think that exercise Milwaukee, Boston, Cleveland. I don't
know how much deep rom willing to go after that, Like Miami doesn't have
Dame, what the fuck's going on in fail. I'm not think the bulls
will be better than these teams, but if I had to like stake my
life on it, these teams will be better than the bulls. I don't
know if I'd go more than three or four teams deep, which again is
more of a statement on how wide open I feel like the East is right
now. Yeah, So for the over under, I've already put one hundred
fifty dollars on them hitting the over, so okay, answers them to literally
put your money where your mouth. Yes, I did that several weeks ago,
thirty seven and a half. Just so if they go under that number
this year, that's absolutely embarrassing, like the only way that and that's like
whatever if they could there could be injuries, and then if they do blow
it up. But like if they try to win and stay relatively healthy this
year and they don't get over thirty seven and a half, that's absolutely embarrassing.
That's an absolute joke. And that's like the worst case scenario if they
go like thirty six and forty six, like while trying to win, because
then you're just in another like mid lottery pick spot and then like what the
hell are we even doing here? I'm fairly confident. I mean, they
won forty games last year with a lot of bad clutch luck and some weird
luck at the end of games with like bad refereeing. Not saying that like
that absolves them of a lot of their late game problems last season, but
they had. They went from like having insane clutch like record luck record two
years ago and Tomorrow's doing this stuff to last year like complete opposite. So,
like I know, they also were kind of lucky injury wise last year
outside Alonzo ball, like Pat played I think all eighty two and Foods played
all the two, Zach and Dabarma played a lot. I would could see
the injury luck kind of coming back on them this year, but still thirty
seven and a half is still just like they just need to go over that
with this team that they have, like they still have some pretty good talent
there. If there's any development at all, and as long as there's no
like super damaging injuries, they should go over that. I put my money
where I'm out is I think they're going over How much over do I think
they'll go? And like how do they I think they stack up? In
the East? Me and Ricky went through we have every year we go through
like game by game. When the schedule is released, we just go winter
loss going through each game in the schedule. I think I was at forty
two this year when I went through. I think I got over forty or
forty. I might have been forty one or forty two, So it was
like again that was at least that's over around five hundred. I would say
they could get in like the low forties to low to mid forties would be
like I think a reasonable scenario for them to get best case scenario maybe mid
forties to high forties if like every everything goes right, Like I think they
could win fifty if everything goes at I just don't know if that's enough there.
So then you look at the East then like, yeah, boss in
Milwaukee, even like Milwaukee might have some problem, like you're worried about the
Middleton stuff, Like, I mean they still have your honest, Drew's still
really good as long as it's not the play as long as its not playing
time. Yeah, it's still funny. How like this stuff he does in
the regular season offensively just doesn't translate and say, yeah, his like his
dip is really crazy. Anyways, Boston and I feel like should probably be
the favorite. I don't trust them. I think the Stop trade was a
massive mistake, but they're going to be better than the Bass. I mean
they're still there's really still really good. So like those two, I mean,
Billy in Miami is just like who the fuck knows right now, I
would still probably I mean embiad is still awesome. It's like I would still
probably bet on even whatever whatever happens with Harden, even if he don says
fat suit and comes in out of shape and doesn't try and like gets the
trade make a terrible trade. I would still expect Philly to be better Miami
would. I mean, Miami's weird because they had touched a bad regular season
bold almost beating who guys who are valuable part of their rotation. I'm assuming
they get Dame though, I am I am as well, so like I
would still probably say the Heat are better. So what are we at?
Boston, Milwaukee, Philly? Still probably them with four the Knicks, I
would probably say there's still a little better, do I am I super continent,
They're like much better? Probably mentioned Cleveland, so Cleveland, yes,
definitely, So that's five. I think what you get past like those five
and then probably the Knicks, then you get to that mix of like Atlanta,
Toronto, the Bulls, Indiana, Orlando. Like you could tell me
like Blyn, Brooklyn, Yeah, Brooklyn too. I think you could tell
me those teams could finish in like any order they're from like whatever seven h
When is that twelve or thirteen? And like I wouldn't be that surprise.
I guess I'd be surprised the Bulls finishing whatever twelve or thirteen, but unless
like it's a situation where they all finished with like thirty eight thirty nine wins
and like they're all like right around there because they know, like ESPN did
there like projections Summer Projections a couple of weeks ago, the Bulls were like
eleventh with like thirty seven or thirty eight wins, and he's like all these
and like the seventh seed was, It's like Atlanta at like forty one or
forty two, Like, I think those teams are probably gonna be super jumbled
up. Could I see the Bulls emerging like out of the top of that
group, Yes, Could I see them being towards the bottom also? Yes?
It was like Indiana should be really interesting. I could see them taking
a jump forward. Orlando also interesting with all their young guys. Toronto,
I would I could see them taking a step back, especially if they trade
Pascal. They're like, don't really believe in them after losing Thread either.
And then like Atlanta is such a weird team with with Train and they got
Murray back and uh, what and they traded you finally trade John Collins.
So all those teams, I feel like they're gonna be super jumble and Brooklyn
two is also just like, I mean, my Col's pretty dope, Cam
Jatson's pretty good. Like I feel like I thought they were gonna be better
than they were after those trades, Like obviously, you trade Katie and Kyrie,
you're gonna be a lot worse. Like I feel like they were just
not nearly as good as I thought they might be, Like their whole wing
thing just like didn't and my Cal was awesome, but like they still just
weren't good, and like they were not good in that playoff serious, Like
I don't I don't really believe in them that much, but I think they'll
be fine, They'll be all right. I think this has not helped,
not helped by the fact that like two games after the Also or like I
think coming out of the Also right, the Bulls beat them by like fifty
and I was just like, what the hell's wrong with you guys? We
were embarrassingly bad? But yeah, so like probably five teams for sure,
the Knicks I would still probably lean as a yes, so like but like
could could I say, like the Bulls swapping up and getting maybe six instead
of the Knicks. I don't think it's out of the question at least.
No, Uh, is there anything else I didn't ask you or anything one
else? Do you feel like we need to discuss before I let you go?
I don't think. I mean, maybe, like the zach lavine stuff,
I guess is kind of just his situation is just because he was kind
of like, it's interesting that we really haven't heard Damar trade rumors, but
we heard like the Zach stuff, like they put Oh, they're they're looking
at the market for zach lavine, but they're holding it whatever really high,
asking for as they should. I do think Zach is kind of underrated at
this point. I get why he is, just because you play in the
league this long and you've won one playoff game and one playing game in your
career, people are just gonna be People are just gonna be like, you're
just not that good if you can't whatever you put off these numbers, but
like your team sucks, like you're just not that good. So I get
it to a degree. Like the first years of Zach and Chicago were a
joke with the team around him, and you had Jim Boyle and all that
mess, and then like you finally actually bring in some real players and they
were actually good. But then he hurts his knee. They won forty six
games. But then he hurts his knee and you get stomped out and Lonzo
gets hurt and he gets stamped out by the Bucks. And then last season,
like Zach started the year with the knee issue, but then like you
look at the back half again, I know, like I mentioned before,
like this back half of the season you can always look at. But like
Zach himself, I think the way just with the injury, like he was
legitimately awesome, Like from like maybe the first month or two in he was
great, and like I feel like people's overlooked his how insane he is efficiency
efficiency wise, on high volume as a scorer. And he had an awesome
game against the Raptors besides jard yard Rose and it was Zach Lavine who won
them that game. Basically, he was terrible against the heat, which is
so unfortunate that he was brutal and Jimmy Butler whooped their ass in that game.
Although I'm still a big Jimmy Butler guy. I love Jimmy and they
should never have traded him. But that's a whole other topic. So,
like I do think Zach's underrated at this point, and I'm curious just what
it does not seem like teams are on the league believe in him at all
because and it seems like there was no team like out there like willing to
trade much for him. I don't think it's ever really been reported like if
they got the offers they got because they know, like the Knicks of whatever,
there's been the Knicks stuff out there, and like the Bulls are asking
for I can't remember what they were asking for, like a couple of draft
picks, maybe a good young player. He's like I mean, you look
at Zach and you look at some of his like Peers, the Bookers obviously
leveled up, Like Bookers better than at this point, no doubt, like
Murray what he did in the in the in the on this this last championship
run, like leveling up, you win a championship, like you're gonna be
above him. But then like I mean, like Mitchell, like Mitchell obviously
has had some big playoff games, but like it is like Zach and Mitchell
like that different. I don't know about that. Like Mitchell's probably maybe a
little better. I know he had a seventy point game me against the Bulls
or whatever that was, and that was super embarrassing to watch. Was that
seven? That was seventy right? They score seventy three that game? Let
me see, Nonovan Mitchell dropped what we dropped? It was seventy one.
Seventy one, Yeah, and that was against the Bulls. Like brutal,
but like, yeah, some of these other guys like like like Bradley Beale
as well, Like I know Bradley Beal just got traded for absolutely nothing,
but kind of a more unique situation there. So like like does if the
zact like trademarkt Like I feel like teams should be willing to trade that stuff
for exactly like whatever, like the Heat, like I mentioned, like if
they, like I do think they're gonna get Dame. But like Zach would
be awesome on the heat, Like they would should absolutely be willing to trade
like close whatever they're trading for day. They should have to trade everything for
Dame if like it was in a just world, like they should have to
if they they Zach would be a great other option for them, Like Zach
would be a great option for like the Sixers if they wanted try to replace
Harden, Like Zach should be wanted by a lot of teams, but it
just doesn't seem like there's that much interest in him, or at least just
not that much interested would give up a lot for him. And like the
contract, he's whatever, five years, two hundred fifteen million, where the
cap is going up. That's not that bad and it's not bad. Yeah,
people, it doesn't even univer to see that. It's not bad.
It's the contract score is that wherever an all star caliber players and with the
cap going up and we're seeing Jaalen Brown U, I mean even that like
that comparison, like Zach first, Jalen Brown likes Jalen Brown's not making five
has a five year three million contra Zach's five two fifteen and like Zach is
probably right there as a player like a similar tier at least maybe maybe Jalen's
a little better. Obviously the team's success helps there with him. So like
some I think Zach is is underrated at this point, and like I feel
if I feel like you see like some player rankings out there and just like
and Zach's just like not that high and I'm just like, I mean,
I get again, I get it to a degree, just because the Bulls
from that one. He's not a top dog. He still makes too many
mistakes, like in crunch time, like I don't always really trust him with
the ball in his hands, like they brought in DeMar to like to be
more of the adult in the room. In the room and crunch time,
the sex sometimes goes bozo mode and crunch time, but again not being a
number one like alpha guy, like that's it hppens whatever, not everyone's like
that guy. He's not DeMar's in those situations. He's not. He's not
as good as Jimmy Butler. But he's still a really damn good player.
And like the contract is fine now with the way the cabs going up,
so like I am just curious, like if if things do go bad this
year for the Bulls and they do look to blow things up, like and
they put Zach on the block again, I'm curious see like what teams water
for him, because I feel like good teams if you're looking for an upgrade
and a guy to be like your number two or number three guy should be
willing to offer a decent amount, but as of right now, it doesn't
seem like the appetite is out there to make a big offer. And if
that's the case, like the Bulls should not trade him. They should not
just dump him to dump him to get off his salary. Was there was
also like another talking point I saw like an NBA twitter this years, Oh,
they just need to get rid of his ex contract and like be whatever
they could take like a first round pick for him and like salary relief,
Like nope, what is that, gonn how is that going to help you
at all? I try, you know whatever, if you like try to
tank like you could take with Zach Lavine on a team. It's like he's
just not a number one guy, and it's like he's not gonna like raise
your he doesn't really raise I guess the floor much. But I feel like
you can raise your ceiling if you have the right the right guys around it.
I don't think I might have totally said that wrong, but like,
yeah, I like number two or the number three guys, he's gonna raise
your ceiling. Yeah, And like you need good Number two is the number
three is to win championships, and like, Zach could be a really valuable
one for a lot of teams. But again, like and I do wonder
if the trade market is kind of if it's kind of coming back now.
Obviously we had such ridiculous trades with with Katie and with Rudy Gobert, and
like Mitch the Mitchell was a lot the murder, Like that's another one I
always look at, Like it was who the Hawks gave up with three first
to get him or something like that. They gave up e lever Man and
true Holiday back in the day. It was a lot too. But like
I do wonder if teams are not not as willing to maybe make those kinds
of trade offers for not a top top flight guy like that Katie, you
get it, so like maybe they're just like Zack and they see Zach and
like they see a good but really good but flawed player. It's like,
we're not gonna we're not gonna go all in with like all our draft picks
here and make this type of trade. And like, if teams aren't willing
to do it, like the Bulls should just keep them and kind of see
where things go. With them. Jason, this was great. As per
usual, you're able to just tell our listeners where they can find you and
all the great work that you do. Ye As we mentioned before, Twitter
or the place formally knows it. Notice Twitter or you want to call it,
I don't like calling it x screw that. You can follow me at
Bulls Underscore. Jay mentioned my podcast Cash Considerations, a Chicago bulls podcast that's
with my co host Rokio Donald. We usually have episodes at least once a
week. When the season starts up, we try to do it a little
bit more, but at least once a week weekly. We'll probably have a
new pod coming up here later this week as well. In addition to this,
and then I mentioned the matching enter at Clutch Points. Don't do much
writing my off there, but we cover everything over there. It'll be tons
of NBA coverage. If you don't know Clutch Points. We have crazy images,
but we also do a lot of editorial content, a lot of great
social content. Clutch Points we also do a lot of editorial content as well,
so go check that out too. It's basically it thank you so much
for having me again. So it was a pleasure. Always love to coming
out of its punch bowls. Oh for sure. Thank you so much for
coming back on it. Now you go by, Now I will be besting
you to get into futures. Love it.