1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:30,480 Hmmm, hello and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, 2 00:00:31,039 --> 00:00:35,320 and we have an excellent guest. Uh. It's kind of a funny story 3 00:00:35,399 --> 00:00:40,200 how I, uh, you know, got this connection. I was actually 4 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:45,359 at one of my son's improv uh you know, things that he does, 5 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:51,240 and someone asked, you know, they were participating with the audience and they 6 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,479 said, uh, they pointed at me and basically, you know, what 7 00:00:54,479 --> 00:00:57,960 do you do for work? And I said, well, I'm an antiquappraiser, 8 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,320 art appraiser and I also do a show on UFOs and they're like, 9 00:01:02,359 --> 00:01:06,799 oh goodies. So they really made some great skits with that. That if 10 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,400 I was a lot of fun. And afterwards one of the people in the 11 00:01:10,439 --> 00:01:12,840 improv came up to me and said, hey, I think he said it 12 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:19,560 was his Well, Tom will tell me his son in law, daughter's son 13 00:01:19,599 --> 00:01:25,599 in law's girlfriend's father does something on UFO something like that. Tom will correct 14 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,599 me and out in Colorado, and I said, oh, yeah, what's 15 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:32,719 that all about? So anyway ends up. I looked into him and it's 16 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,760 really fascinating the work that he does. And we're going to be talking about 17 00:01:34,799 --> 00:01:38,159 that tonight and I will tell you for the first time I had something very 18 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:45,239 strange happen. His latency on his side is about thirty seconds, maybe even 19 00:01:45,359 --> 00:01:49,040 more. So we had to drop to the phone line tonight, so he's 20 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,799 going to be on the phone. I do have some images to show. 21 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:57,680 But before we get started the blog this week with Charles Lear, and by 22 00:01:57,719 --> 00:02:01,840 the way, anybody the audio and subscribing to YouTube all that it's all free. 23 00:02:02,799 --> 00:02:07,840 So the audio blogs, Charles Lear puts a lot of work into them 24 00:02:07,879 --> 00:02:13,120 every week and there's a lot of great information. And this week is the 25 00:02:13,159 --> 00:02:20,360 first scientific UFO study and he talks about going back to the coin incident with 26 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,400 the helicopter and all the way back in the early times and when jay On 27 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:30,680 Heinik I was starting to look at the possibility scientifically of what these things might 28 00:02:30,759 --> 00:02:35,840 be. So check that out. As every week we have a new blog 29 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,599 and new information for you. We also have a Facebook page with a lot 30 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,560 of people on that too, so you can get information that way too, 31 00:02:43,039 --> 00:02:46,120 And Brock is over there helping out with that. Palmer helps out a lot 32 00:02:46,159 --> 00:02:53,719 with a lot of information all the time. Phil helps out also, he's 33 00:02:53,759 --> 00:02:58,280 a moderator and helps out with some information a lot, so we have a 34 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,599 lot of people working. Of course, our producer Donna does a wonderful job, 35 00:03:02,039 --> 00:03:06,000 so I want to thank thank all those people that help out. I 36 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,360 don't say that enough. And I also want to thank everyone in chat for 37 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:13,520 being here live, all those who are viewing it live. And here's our 38 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,159 guest, Tom Kurran. Welcome to the show. Tom, Thanks Martin. 39 00:03:17,159 --> 00:03:22,159 I'm glad to be here. Yeah, I'm glad you're here. We had 40 00:03:22,159 --> 00:03:23,599 a little bit of a rough start. I thought we're going to have to 41 00:03:23,599 --> 00:03:27,439 delay the show, so I'm glad. I'm glad we figured it out. 42 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,800 And yeah, you thought you we were having just a zoom problem, but 43 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,759 ended up being a little more than that. That's right. I didn't realize 44 00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:38,120 it would tect this platform, so I'm sorry. Yeah, you may have 45 00:03:38,199 --> 00:03:42,159 to. I'm not sure how the audio is coming through, but we'll I'll 46 00:03:42,199 --> 00:03:46,560 talk with the UH with Chanelle to ask her how it sounds. But you 47 00:03:46,599 --> 00:03:51,280 may have to get a little closer to your phone. I'm not sure it 48 00:03:51,319 --> 00:03:55,960 should not be you know, it should not be not on speakerphone. It's 49 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,800 not going to work that way. Everyone, Okay, hold on, Yeah, 50 00:04:00,439 --> 00:04:04,719 all right, So Tom, how is this I think that's better. 51 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,560 So Tom, let's hear how you get interested in this topic, and we're 52 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,039 going to talk about your you know, your website, all the work that 53 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,919 you've done in the last few years. What sparked your interest to begin with? 54 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,839 Well, when people used to ask me that, I talked about, 55 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,639 you know, my Well, first, I'm not an experiencer, but I 56 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:30,480 have a strong interest in this and also have experimented with a lot of paranormal 57 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:36,040 stuff. But when I used to answer that question, I would talk about, 58 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:41,439 you know, getting involved with Leslie Kine or something. But I realized 59 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:46,800 there's a deeper reason, which is my whole career. I've been interested in 60 00:04:46,879 --> 00:04:54,000 paradigm shifts. I have a career as a business executive and you know, 61 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:59,399 one of my major clients we worked on the hospice paradigm for dying and integrated 62 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:05,360 healthcare. And I'm currently on the board of two nonprofits that are working to 63 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:12,959 change the structure and the incentives of the political system. And I think that 64 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,079 with this topic, once you cut through the misinformation, I think people will 65 00:05:17,079 --> 00:05:24,240 discover that the UFO related issues pose really the biggest potential paradigm shifts of all. 66 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,879 So I think the first thing, I've been interested in paradigm shifts. 67 00:05:27,959 --> 00:05:32,480 The second thing is, I think it's in my typology. I'm an enneagram 68 00:05:32,519 --> 00:05:38,040 one, which is kind of a reformer in human design. I'm a manifesting 69 00:05:38,079 --> 00:05:45,560 generator. I'm in my leadership development profile. I'm strategists, so I'm drawn 70 00:05:45,639 --> 00:05:51,160 to understanding complex systems. So it's partially my typology. I think. The 71 00:05:51,199 --> 00:05:57,839 other thing is I'm a lifelong seeker on post conventional stuff and have had a 72 00:05:57,959 --> 00:06:05,560 series of psychological and esoteric influences and practices, you know, meditation and various 73 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,519 collective things, and a lot of time at a place called the Monroe Institute, 74 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:15,480 and my partnership with this guy Shawn Hoggins, you know. And finally, 75 00:06:15,519 --> 00:06:18,199 I'm I'm really a left brain guy. You know. I'm a naval 76 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:24,000 officer, and I'm a strategy consultant from McKinsey and Company, and I've got 77 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,480 a lot of left brain training and tools about complexity. And so I think, 78 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:34,000 you know, my left brain orientation and my natural proclivity as a seeker, 79 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:41,160 and my typology all go to support my interest in paradigm shifts. And 80 00:06:41,199 --> 00:06:45,360 I don't think there's anything figure out there than this one. Yeah, I 81 00:06:45,399 --> 00:06:49,600 absolutely agree. And you know, the I was just having this conversation today 82 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:58,319 about this, and I belong to a strummers group. It's basically old guys 83 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:03,439 like myself playing guitar, and so anyway, I got to talking to one 84 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:08,879 of the people there and we got into the topic of UFOs because the group 85 00:07:09,399 --> 00:07:12,839 kind of most of the group knows that I do this show, and I 86 00:07:12,879 --> 00:07:15,879 did a talk here as well a little while ago. And you know, 87 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:21,399 basically he's saying, what is it with with people like this is something really 88 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:28,519 really important? And I don't understand how, you know, like when people 89 00:07:28,639 --> 00:07:31,519 he made the reference he might be listening tonight actually, but he made the 90 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,879 reference like, wow, you know, so we may be we may have 91 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:41,560 someone on you know, aliens on the White House lawne what's for dinner? 92 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,839 He said, there's a lot of an attitude like that, and you know, 93 00:07:45,079 --> 00:07:47,040 and that's true. There's a lot you know, most of the people 94 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,240 out there, you know, you have to survive, so you always he 95 00:07:50,319 --> 00:07:54,800 was basically saying, we always have to come back to reality. He said, 96 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,839 even if it's a you know, if you're a fundamental fundamentalist, you 97 00:07:59,879 --> 00:08:01,800 know, and some type of religion and it's everything to you. You still 98 00:08:01,839 --> 00:08:05,480 have to come back to what are you going to buy for clothes or what 99 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,399 are you going to do for this or that, or what are you going 100 00:08:07,439 --> 00:08:11,079 to eat? You know. So, yeah, I think it's a very 101 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:18,000 important topic and it keeps me going. Yeah, me too. I mean 102 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,959 it's interesting if you look at the survey research, you know, I think 103 00:08:20,959 --> 00:08:26,879 it's a majority of people believe that there's intelligent life in the universe, and 104 00:08:28,079 --> 00:08:33,240 even a substantial a proportion you know, things, you know, we're being 105 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,960 visited, but it's it's a very abstract thing, you know, methane on 106 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,720 Mars and oh, you know, maybe there's something out there somewhere sometime, 107 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:50,399 but it doesn't break through all the legitimate concerns and preoccupations people have, you 108 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,279 know, with their personal lives, much less you know, the global situation. 109 00:08:56,519 --> 00:08:58,600 Right, yeah, oh, I know, you know when this was, 110 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,320 you know, in Congress last summer, I happened to be there, 111 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,000 which was really amazing, and but you know, I was just thinking, 112 00:09:07,039 --> 00:09:11,240 there's so many things on the plate, so many things going on, you 113 00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:16,200 know, wars, everything else, and like it really it kind of takes 114 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,559 a back seat to even though it would be such an amazing, you know, 115 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:26,440 revelation, it still kind of takes the back seat. And I understand 116 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:33,279 why when there's turmoil and all that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, So 117 00:09:33,039 --> 00:09:37,120 I have to ask you, first of all, when you started, when 118 00:09:37,159 --> 00:09:41,879 you took this on and started working on it and looking into it, did 119 00:09:41,919 --> 00:09:48,159 you get any ridicule from any you know, fellows people that you work with, 120 00:09:48,279 --> 00:09:52,600 or did you have any struggle in that type of way or are things 121 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:58,759 seem to be changing as far as that goes. I think they're changing. 122 00:09:58,759 --> 00:10:03,440 I mean when I started, I've got two projects. You know, one 123 00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:07,919 is the Implications Survey, which we released in January, and then the other 124 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:13,159 is a pretty comprehensive website which did about two and a half years ago. 125 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,840 And two and a half years ago, you know, when my friend, 126 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,360 another fellow consultant that works at a very high level, he kind of came 127 00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:24,440 out of the closet and decided to reveal that, you know, this was 128 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,000 a big interest of his. And he was amazed about once he said that, 129 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,080 how many people really came forward and said, well, you know, 130 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:37,120 actually I had a sighting or I had an abduction experience or something like that. 131 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:43,840 So it's more, you know, I think it's more giving people permission 132 00:10:43,919 --> 00:10:50,200 to say they're interested in that. And then on the other hand, you 133 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,559 know, I'm involved. I'm on some very high level boards with some conventional 134 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,720 people, and you know, I've kind of gone out on a limb and 135 00:11:00,159 --> 00:11:05,159 you know, you know, maybe a little breakfast conversation at a conference, 136 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,679 said I'm interested in this, and they listen and they say, well, 137 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,039 you know, this is amazing. I haven't paid any attention to this, 138 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,960 but you're a smart analytical guy. So if you're on it, maybe, 139 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:22,120 you know, maybe I won't dismiss it out of hand. Right. I 140 00:11:22,159 --> 00:11:28,000 remember I had a person that just saw Kevin Kanouth on my show here. 141 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,679 I just saw his name a minute ago here on your website, and he 142 00:11:31,799 --> 00:11:37,559 said that he was going to these conferences, you know, years ago and 143 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,919 scientific conferences, and he said there was a guy there that kept talking about 144 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:46,559 earthquake lights and we were all saying the guy was nuts, and you know, 145 00:11:46,759 --> 00:11:50,720 like this is just crazy, and then all of a sudden they discovered 146 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,320 there was actually something to it, and right he said, I want to 147 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,519 I'm going to be the UFO nut that's going to be on the ground floor 148 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,679 when when everything breaks. So, you know, I think that was that 149 00:12:03,799 --> 00:12:09,039 was great that you know that he feels that way as a science person, 150 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,879 he's done quite a bit. So he's been a guest a few times and 151 00:12:13,879 --> 00:12:18,519 he's a good guy looking into it, taking it seriously. Well, the 152 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:24,240 dam is slowly cracking in academia. You know, look at the Soul conference 153 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,440 and the people that we're speaking at that, yes, at Stanford University, 154 00:12:30,519 --> 00:12:37,200 and but it's still it's still pretty much taboo. We as part of the 155 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:43,200 survey, we had two paragraphs where people had to choose which worldview was more 156 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:50,360 like them, and one was essentially what we would call the scientific materialist and 157 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,799 the other worldview was what we call expanded consciousness. You know that some things 158 00:12:56,879 --> 00:13:01,039 can't be measured physically, but that are are true and real, and so 159 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:07,759 it's very hard to break out of the scientific materialist paradigm, right. And 160 00:13:07,039 --> 00:13:11,279 one of the conversations I mentioned earlier that I was having with one of the 161 00:13:11,639 --> 00:13:16,080 fellow strummers there was, you know, he basically said, well, I'm 162 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,360 a lifelong scientist, and you know, even though I had a sighting as 163 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,919 a nine year old and it was lights doing these unbelievable maneuvers, and no 164 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,240 one had an explanation for it. He goes, I don't think that, 165 00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:31,440 he says, Yes, I do believe that there's civilization's out there, but 166 00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:35,720 I don't think they can get here. And you know, I always have 167 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,639 an answer that you know, and it's kind of people that listen to the 168 00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:43,360 show all the time, hear it over and over again. I'm sure, 169 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,519 but I think that, you know, there's more to be discovered in physics. 170 00:13:48,519 --> 00:13:52,759 It's not like we always think we're on the crescendo and know everything. 171 00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:56,759 But I always think there's more to know. And you know, there is 172 00:13:56,879 --> 00:14:01,840 possibly the possibility of some type of space time manipulation. There must be. 173 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:09,360 But who knows exactly where and what these things are or if they're a combination 174 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,720 of things. That's that's the thing. We don't really know. If they're 175 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,679 from another world, we don't really know, if they're interdimensional. We don't 176 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:22,399 really know any of these things. We can only speculate. That's right, 177 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:28,559 And anybody that moves from something out there here's what it is. They're really 178 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,320 out on a limb and just speculating, as you say, yeah, yep, 179 00:14:33,639 --> 00:14:39,000 But so I have to say, let's talk about your survey. What 180 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:46,399 was that about? Sure, Well, about a year ago we thought, 181 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,120 well, we wanted to do a what if experiment? So what if there 182 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:58,799 was an official recognition of the presence of non human intelligence and technology really embedded 183 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,399 here in planet Earth or on planet Earth? And it was some kind of 184 00:15:03,399 --> 00:15:07,159 a credible announcement. It was the US President and other world leaders and accompanied 185 00:15:07,159 --> 00:15:15,600 by you know, enough credible evidence that people actually were starting to grap with 186 00:15:15,639 --> 00:15:20,159 the grapple with the implications. So that was our starting point. So we 187 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:26,320 had a panel of about fifteen people I could think it was last June, 188 00:15:26,919 --> 00:15:30,840 and we have a variety of you know, very diverse panel, and we 189 00:15:30,919 --> 00:15:39,679 brainstormed about or specifically one hundred and seventeen implications and you know, covering cultural, 190 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:45,759 technological, military, potential, deep state, you know everything. And 191 00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:56,120 then we narrowed it down to forty four and launched a survey. And for 192 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:04,679 each of these forty four we had a scale how credible do you think this 193 00:16:04,759 --> 00:16:15,960 implication is and how positive or negative is it? And and we had we 194 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,240 networked out and we had it. We we narrowed We got about nine hundred 195 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:26,120 responses, and we narrowed it down to four hundred and thirty four valid responses 196 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,879 as some people, many people didn't complete the survey. They just dropped out 197 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,039 right away. So it wasn't survey fatigue, it was they just weren't interested. 198 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:41,159 So anyway, on the sample of four hundred and thirty four people that 199 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:48,360 evaluated each of these implications as to positive or negative, how positive negative or 200 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:55,639 is it neutral? And how credible? And that's the basis for the report. 201 00:16:55,919 --> 00:16:59,759 And I can segue into what we found, but that that was the 202 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,160 that was the basis of it. So four hundred and thirty five people. 203 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,759 You know, it's not ten thousand people, but it's more than anecdotal, 204 00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:14,400 and yeah, so what we'll, yeah, go into it more if you 205 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:25,440 would. Sure. The biggest finding that rose to the top was the people. 206 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:32,079 One of the questions we asked was compared how involved are you in this 207 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,799 field? How much do you read about it, if you had an experience, 208 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:40,960 et cetera, compared to the average person, much more, somewhat more 209 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,480 about the same, much less, and very much less. And we found 210 00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:49,839 the biggest difference was the people who followed this field. We call them the 211 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:56,200 no moors. Compared to the No Less it was night and day, just 212 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:02,119 night and day. So the people that didn't follow the field we asked, 213 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,359 we had an open text response, you know, just like name three words, 214 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,960 Name any three words and if you put those in a word cloud, 215 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,200 and you might post that in the notes, you know, the word cloud. 216 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,920 For the group that knew less, it was just all about fear, 217 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:30,319 chaos, uncertainty, just all negative with just a tiny little thread of you 218 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,319 know, well maybe it could be hopeful, and but it was. It 219 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:44,000 was overwhelmingly negative. And the group that reported that they followed this field more 220 00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:53,759 closely, it was all about a transformation, excitement, hope, technology, 221 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:03,880 potential, shock, evolution, with a little bit of chaos and uncertainty. 222 00:19:03,279 --> 00:19:10,119 So there were just totally different worldviews, I mean totally different implications. The 223 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:18,759 no More group basically found it transformational. The no Less group found it scary 224 00:19:18,759 --> 00:19:26,359 and exciting. And then when we looked at the specific implications, the main 225 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:33,160 conclusion and the takeaway is that more knowledge leads to more positivity and less uncertainty. 226 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,240 Because the group that knew More could name eighteen items, and I can 227 00:19:38,319 --> 00:19:44,359 go through the themes eighteen items that they thought were likely and positive. The 228 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,279 no Less group couldn't name a single thing that they thought was likely and positive. 229 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,079 Wow. And what's more, the no More group had an opinion on 230 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:57,640 over half of the forty four questions. The no less group, you know, 231 00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:03,839 five percent of the questions they basically said, it's too uncertain. So 232 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:10,759 the people that hadn't been following it were uncertain and negative, and the people 233 00:20:10,759 --> 00:20:15,240 that had been following it, you know, backing up the generalization about being 234 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,400 exciting and transformational, could name eighteen items that they thought were positive and exciting. 235 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:26,880 So that was the biggest difference, and that overrode distinctions among generations or 236 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:36,319 gender or country. That was really more knowledge is more knowledge of this field 237 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,279 is empowering, and so that's that's a great message for you know, arguing 238 00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:51,480 that people would be less fearful and have more see more opportunity and possibility if 239 00:20:51,519 --> 00:20:55,160 they at least stuck their toe in the water and started to learn about this 240 00:20:55,240 --> 00:21:00,839 field. Right, And you know, I understand the unknown's always scary. 241 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,400 Of course it's totally unknown to us too, but at least, you know, 242 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,240 we're looking into what the possibilities are. I guess that's what it is 243 00:21:08,279 --> 00:21:15,920 exploring the possibilities, and yeah, it makes I remember when I first told 244 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,880 my son, because I think it was like three or four years of doing 245 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,319 the show, and I never even told my son that I had a UFO 246 00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:29,359 sighting, just because he was that type of thing scared him. You know, 247 00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:33,680 anything like that scared him even you know, from very early age. 248 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,680 And you know, so eventually, you know, he started looking into it. 249 00:21:37,759 --> 00:21:41,200 Now he's like, well, he's more comfortable. He doesn't want to 250 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,960 know too much. Now. I saw earlier and I do want to get 251 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,160 those eighteen items. But before that, I saw earlier up on your website 252 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:53,119 and I wanted to talk to you about it. Is this the abduction thing 253 00:21:53,240 --> 00:22:00,359 was something I was quite nervous about talking about myself at first because I didn't 254 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:06,200 know what to think of it. And you know, I guess I have 255 00:22:06,279 --> 00:22:10,039 to say. I'm looking at these the title here, and by the way, 256 00:22:10,079 --> 00:22:12,920 this website is linked in the show notes and down below in the Texan 257 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,799 and YouTube here. But here's a list of fifteen abduction cases from nineteen sixty 258 00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:23,839 four to two thousand and seven that meet objective criteria. What is that objective 259 00:22:23,839 --> 00:22:29,640 criteria? So this is what Sean and I worked on, and so this 260 00:22:29,799 --> 00:22:34,119 was something we created. So they're eight criteria and I'll tell you what they 261 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:41,599 are, and these fifteen cases, almost all of them meet at least six 262 00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:48,559 of the eight criteria. So the criteria are, first, multiple abductees like 263 00:22:48,759 --> 00:22:59,200 you know Betty Barney Hill, additional witnesses passed a lie detective test, passed 264 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:07,400 a psychologue evaluation, had some kind of body marks, there was additional physical 265 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:15,960 evidence. They had conscious recall, and they had hypnotic recall. And these 266 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:19,759 fifteen cases, as I say, almost all of them meet at least six 267 00:23:19,839 --> 00:23:26,000 of those criteria. So you know, if you deconstructed and look at the 268 00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:30,359 evidence, I mean, my gosh. You know, the standard for evidence 269 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:36,359 in a criminal trial is beyond a reasonable doubt, and in civil it's a 270 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:41,599 prepondence of evidence, or in a drug trial it's ninety five percent competence interval. 271 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:47,319 So you know, if you kind of get beyond the taboo and actually 272 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,480 look at what's going on, there's quite a lot. Oh yeah, that's 273 00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:56,400 right. And you know some of these you have listed. You know, 274 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,440 I've talked directly with those people, and one of them might think is really 275 00:24:00,519 --> 00:24:06,240 amazing of course as Travis Walton and Calvin Parker, who we just lost last 276 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:11,559 last year, was a great gentleman and he's one that I totally believe his 277 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:18,640 story along with Hickson. You know, the best part about that case is 278 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,279 when they had the tape recorder in the police office in the drawer in the 279 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:26,680 desk when they left them alone, so they had no idea that they were 280 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,839 being taped, and they were just talking back and forth, and I was 281 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,039 talking about how you know, Calvin was saying how scared he was and all 282 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:40,559 that Travis Walton talking to him off record, you know, hanging around with 283 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,759 him in a restaurant or whatever and having long discussions with him. I have 284 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,880 no doubt at all that Travis had, you know, that experience. It's 285 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:55,799 it's pretty amazing. And the Alligash the fore artists that we're buddies. I've 286 00:24:55,839 --> 00:25:03,079 talked to two of them and I totally buy their story and it was very 287 00:25:03,599 --> 00:25:07,680 a very interesting story. And I talked about that in detail in a podcast. 288 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,160 I did I believe that. Yeah, it was last week with no 289 00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:18,279 more slavic about that particular case, but it's a fascinating one. Terry's been 290 00:25:18,319 --> 00:25:22,079 on this yep, go ahead. Well, I think it's wonderful that you're 291 00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:27,680 giving them a contemporary platform because some of these cases were decades and decades ago, 292 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,440 and you know, all fifteen of these cases, we have video and 293 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:38,640 or edited articles on all fifteen cases. You know, you can go to 294 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:44,000 the site and use a search function and you know, put in Travis or 295 00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:51,319 Barney Hill or something. I mean, the you know, we've tried to 296 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:59,759 distill down in usually under five minutes, five to eight minutes, the essence 297 00:25:59,759 --> 00:26:04,799 of the argument for each of these fifteen cases. Now, you had given 298 00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:08,119 me some slides, and I don't know if we can. Is that anything 299 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:14,279 that you want to go through while we're we're talking. Yeah, sure, 300 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,480 And I can go through them whether you see them or not. We don't. 301 00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:22,200 You don't need to see them. I can just talk them through, 302 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,200 all right, Should I do that? Well? Yeah, I mean, 303 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,680 if you're if you can start from the top. I know, you know 304 00:26:29,799 --> 00:26:33,160 this is a little tricky because you're on the phone and not really seeing the 305 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,680 screen in front of you. So right now, what I have pulled up 306 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,079 is, uh, you know, the fear and uncertainty all that that the 307 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,759 first the first tile, and I don't know how I can expand that. 308 00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:52,160 Yeah, no, I know what. So the first the first title I 309 00:26:52,599 --> 00:26:57,519 covered verbally a little bit. That's a word cloud that shows the most common 310 00:26:57,559 --> 00:27:03,680 words by the group that said they knew less about UPS and you can see 311 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,119 its fear, uncertainty, chaos, scary, et cetera. You can look 312 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,279 at the there's an iteration of the top ten words. And again these were 313 00:27:11,319 --> 00:27:14,400 all open text responses. We didn't, we didn't, we didn't try to 314 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,039 private pump the next slide. Do you want to go to the next line? 315 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:26,559 Knowledge matters, Knowledge matters those who know more about UIPS, transformational technology, 316 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:32,839 enlightenment, hope, potential, exciting, uncertainty necessary. So there's the 317 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:38,000 difference in the attitudes. Then if you go to the next slide, that's 318 00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:42,000 probably the one with the two pie charts. That's right. More knowledge, 319 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:49,640 more needs leads to more positivity and less uncertainty. So this is what you 320 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:56,039 know I reviewed earlier. The no more group sees eighteen items as lightly positive. 321 00:27:56,039 --> 00:28:03,200 The no less group sees none. See no more group seize twenty two 322 00:28:03,319 --> 00:28:10,839 out of the forty four its two uncertain rate. The no less group almost 323 00:28:10,839 --> 00:28:12,200 all of them. Forty two out of forty four. So that's that. 324 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,519 Yeah, can you go while we're right here, can you I don't know 325 00:28:17,519 --> 00:28:18,599 if you have it in front of you, but you said there were eighteen. 326 00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:26,160 Can you talk about those positive eighteen things? Yes? I will so 327 00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:30,279 the way I've done it. And this is the next set of slides. 328 00:28:30,319 --> 00:28:34,039 If you want to go to theme number one, a shift in global awareness. 329 00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:40,920 Okay, uh huh, yep, you're there. Yes. So the 330 00:28:41,079 --> 00:28:48,480 takeaway and is that there are four positive themes, one on each slide, 331 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:56,920 one negative theme, and three uncertain themes. From the standpoint of the no 332 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,279 More group, there's no point asking the NOME relating to no less group because 333 00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:06,240 they don't know anything, right, they're not. So the first positive theme 334 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:12,160 is a shift in global awareness and that comes from the survey implications We are 335 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:18,240 not alone. That narrative unites people. NHA message is take care of the 336 00:29:18,279 --> 00:29:25,559 planet and this will trigger humanity to explore its deeper purpose. So we think 337 00:29:25,759 --> 00:29:30,440 the first of the four positive implication groups is a shift in global awareness. 338 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:40,960 The second want to shift, I got it deeper engagements with NHI. Right, 339 00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:48,200 So survey implications viewed as likely and positive. The UFO et taboo phades, 340 00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:57,000 a broader acceptance of abductions, expanded NHI contact by humans, nhis decide 341 00:29:57,039 --> 00:30:03,359 to become more visibly present, uh and uh. The No More group thinks 342 00:30:03,359 --> 00:30:10,640 it's it's likely that the US Congress will verify recovered craft and bodies, and 343 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,119 they thought it was unlikely that NHI is going to help humanity with AI. 344 00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:26,240 Hmm, okay, now I'm three. Yeah. The third positive theme on 345 00:30:26,279 --> 00:30:30,440 the nuts and both side is a boost of science and technology. This comes 346 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:37,920 from increased investment in stem science, technology, engineering, math, a huge 347 00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:45,640 investment in up related tech uh PSI goes mainstream, you know, enhanced intuition, 348 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:51,720 paranormal you know, all that stuff goes mainstream, and maybe some successful 349 00:30:51,839 --> 00:30:57,319 reverse engineering. So that's the big boost of science and technology. Mhm. 350 00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:03,119 The fourth and final positive theme, and this is one that's particularly exciting to 351 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:10,880 me, and the significant is expanding sensing and consciousness. Expanded human sensing, 352 00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:21,160 recognition of interdimensional realities, integration of indigenous beliefs, emergence of mystical religions. 353 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,279 And this is really interesting, the interdependence of technology and consciousness and the cultural 354 00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:34,319 renaissance. So those are all the positive themes. Okay, just while we're 355 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:40,240 right here, what is exactly what exactly does that mean? The interdependence of 356 00:31:40,279 --> 00:31:48,599 technology and consciousness transformation? All of these are just headlines, So we didn't 357 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:55,119 say the independence of technology and consciousness. We had you know, a little 358 00:31:55,119 --> 00:32:01,720 brief paragraph about it, but it would be you know, there's speculation about 359 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:07,759 the UAP craft being you know, integrated with the consciousness of the pilot. 360 00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:21,559 Yes. Uh, there's the common abduction experience of you know, direct mind 361 00:32:21,559 --> 00:32:25,880 to mind communication, so you know, all of these types of things that 362 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,960 we can't really separate those two mm hmm right, Okay, I got it. 363 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,880 So so that's uh. And then but we go to theme five, 364 00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:42,640 right, yeah, but it's not all roses. So, uh, the 365 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:49,559 headline is many people will remain disengaged, other hostile. So we this group, 366 00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:52,720 you know, and I would include myself in the no more group. 367 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:59,119 People will tune out. Uh, there will be increasing widespread video hoaxes. 368 00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:07,200 Uh A NHI will be demonized by religious extremes, so extremist groups misinformation hox 369 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:15,160 hoax's initial skepticism and disengagement. That's probably also a likely part of the mix. 370 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:22,559 Interesting, Yeah, okay, and uh, you know, before we 371 00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:25,920 before we just move on, there there is a you know, I mean, 372 00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:30,400 I don't know if you've heard about this, but there's a number of 373 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:38,279 people that are actually talking about uh, they're thinking there there's demons involved, 374 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,759 you know. Uh. And I don't know how much you looked into that, 375 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,000 you know. I remember even alu Elo Zando said, you know, 376 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:52,119 someone to pay grade above his when he was working, you know, at 377 00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:58,880 the Pentagon basically said that they thought the whole thing was demonic and which is 378 00:33:59,039 --> 00:34:06,000 really quite interesting that and I think, you know, there's like, for 379 00:34:06,039 --> 00:34:10,599 instance, when the aerial school incident happened back in nineteen ninety four, I 380 00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:15,880 remember one of the children said that when she went home and told her mother 381 00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:19,960 that her mother thought it was demons. And you know, I mean, 382 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,159 that does seem to come up that I think when something's unexplainable, that's kind 383 00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:29,000 of a go to you know, I'm not sure if that's it or not, 384 00:34:29,079 --> 00:34:35,119 but still, yeah, well that's one of the that's a good segue 385 00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:42,239 into the theme six. What's uncertain is NHI intentions and capabilities we don't know, 386 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:47,000 and it's probably a mix. So for example, the No More group 387 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:53,000 say. We can't say that NHIS will be found to be found to be 388 00:34:53,039 --> 00:34:59,440 non violent. We can't say whether they'll provide technology to help us. We 389 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:04,079 can't say that technology will lead to global solutions. We can't say that there'll 390 00:35:04,119 --> 00:35:07,039 be free energy, you know. We can't say that there'll be increased study 391 00:35:07,039 --> 00:35:12,199 of crop circles, although I think that should have made it in. We 392 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,519 don't know whether hybrids are around and will participate in disclosure. We don't know 393 00:35:16,559 --> 00:35:22,440 whether they'll be indifferent to humanity. We don't know whether it be traumatic encounters 394 00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:25,639 with NHI, and we certainly don't know what they are and what their motivations 395 00:35:25,639 --> 00:35:37,360 are. So this is just like a huge area of uncertainty right right, 396 00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:45,119 Okay, I'm on to THEAM seven. Now. Them seven is will the 397 00:35:45,199 --> 00:35:52,599 secret agenda of the National security State succeed? So we don't know whether the 398 00:35:52,639 --> 00:36:01,679 deep state will continue to control the narrative. We don't know whether secret defense 399 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:07,159 programs will continue to be successfully protected. Here's a big one. We don't 400 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:13,800 know if the if there's elements of the military rogue military elements are colluding with 401 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,000 NHI. On the positive side, we don't know if there's going to be 402 00:36:17,039 --> 00:36:22,159 a backlash about against the Deep State. But most of this stuff uncertainty around 403 00:36:22,199 --> 00:36:28,679 the deep state is negative stuff. Will they continue to control the narrative? 404 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,159 Will these programs be protected? You know? And even further out, is 405 00:36:32,199 --> 00:36:39,079 there some kind of active collusion going on for narrow purposes? Right? I 406 00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:44,480 should just say one more time for those people that are listening to the audio, 407 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,519 that this whole slide show will be in the show notes. You can 408 00:36:49,519 --> 00:36:52,239 get to it and you can click through it and read, you know, 409 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:57,000 in more detail. There's a lot of detail on these slides that you can 410 00:36:57,039 --> 00:37:00,719 go through and read for certain So so do check that out when you just 411 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,039 click on the show notes down below the audio and it'll take you there. 412 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,159 Okay, so now we're moving on to how to the end. So we've 413 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:19,760 we've gone through four positives. We've gone through the negatives and the uncertainties, 414 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,960 which is you know, NHI, their capabilities and intentions, the deep state, 415 00:37:23,639 --> 00:37:30,000 and the final part is social impact. So there's some positive stuff. 416 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:38,079 You know, humanity could honor its galactic history, we could enact treaties to 417 00:37:38,119 --> 00:37:44,480 reduce nuclear weapons. Maybe the UN or the Vatican will take a leadership role. 418 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,119 All those things are viewed as positive, but they're not certain enough. 419 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:59,519 And then the negatives on the social impact is disclosure, fractures society, worsening 420 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:05,679 in the qualities lead to social revote, hybrid witch hunts, the rich get 421 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,239 richer, the stock market collapses, and there's a decline in state sovereignty. 422 00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:16,199 So you know, there's a lot, there's there's those fourteen positives, but 423 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:22,800 there's also these uncertainties that would prove to be pivotal. Mm hmmm h So 424 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:29,000 that's basically the Yeah, yeah, that's basically the end of all that. 425 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:34,480 That's really good stuff. Thank you. Yeah. The people that have participated 426 00:38:34,519 --> 00:38:37,599 in this survey and hear this stuff, it's like, you know, wow, 427 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:45,880 I didn't really think there were so many potential implications, right right. 428 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,960 So we have a couple of questions. I'm gonna I'm gonna uh and please 429 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:55,320 put your your questions in caps. I see one up here from doctor Richard 430 00:38:55,360 --> 00:39:01,719 that's on quite a bit. Let's see, I'm just putting a note up 431 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:08,519 here. Okay, so let me get to that first, and what's the 432 00:39:08,599 --> 00:39:14,000 proof that well, let me just hanging on, hang on just a second 433 00:39:14,039 --> 00:39:17,519 here, let me get that up there what's the proof that we certainly don't 434 00:39:17,519 --> 00:39:23,280 know what they are and what their motives are. I'm trying to understand that, 435 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:28,599 what is the proof we certainly don't know? Oh, what is the 436 00:39:28,679 --> 00:39:31,719 proof? That's the question. I guess we certainly don't know what they are 437 00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:36,280 or what their motives are. So I don't know if you're really trying to 438 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:42,480 say any proof, are you? No? I mean there's a variety of 439 00:39:42,599 --> 00:39:49,760 views within the UFO community, in the UFO bubble, if I can call 440 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,320 it that, and there's a wide variety of views from absolute certainty as to 441 00:39:53,360 --> 00:40:00,159 what they are to you know, people that say we don't know, and 442 00:40:00,199 --> 00:40:06,199 so I don't have a proof that we don't know what they are. I 443 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:13,159 just have not seen anything. You know. This whole thing is a good 444 00:40:13,159 --> 00:40:21,239 attitude I've found is to take things seriously but hold them lightly. Right. 445 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:28,559 So, you know, I'm not promoting videos about UFO bases under Antarctica, 446 00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:32,400 but there could be you know, well what if we take that seriously, 447 00:40:34,079 --> 00:40:37,880 you know, but also hold it lightly because there are just so many possibilities. 448 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:43,199 So that's that's my attitude of if somebody thinks they know what they are 449 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:50,360 and knows what their motives are. And you know, I think it's very 450 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,800 likely we're dealing with a wide variety of phenomena, a very wide variety of 451 00:40:53,800 --> 00:41:01,039 phenomena. We're reacting in different ways, and you know, I'm interested in 452 00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:07,679 people that have different theories about that. But I also hold it lightly the 453 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:14,760 data I just reviewed. You know, it's not the King's James Libel. 454 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,039 It's just you know, a survey of four hundred and thirty four people and 455 00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:28,519 highlighting the implications that you know, met a confidence level threshold and of positivity 456 00:41:28,559 --> 00:41:35,559 and likelihood by this group. Here's another question that someone posted up there as 457 00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:39,119 a fan of conceptual modeling. I would like to know if in your research 458 00:41:39,639 --> 00:41:49,079 you have put yourself in Nhi's place, right, or what the downside of 459 00:41:49,639 --> 00:41:52,719 contact for their side? What would be I think that's trying to say what 460 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:59,639 would be the downside of contact on their side? Is it safer to hide? 461 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:05,639 Yeah? I don't know. Yeah. I mean one of the uncertainties 462 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:14,000 is as we become more open and welcoming, will they respond in kind? 463 00:42:15,119 --> 00:42:16,320 I mean, there'd be certainly, you know, on our side, as 464 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:22,760 we become more opening and welcoming, there'll certainly be a lot of healing to 465 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:29,000 be done among contact experiencers that have been shunned, you know, by their 466 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,880 friends and family. And so there'd be a lot of dynamics on our side, 467 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,079 what will happen on their side? I mean, there's many people that 468 00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:40,840 you know, think that it's a co created process. The more welcoming we 469 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,079 become and the more let's just say, sophisticated in our understanding of our reality, 470 00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:51,039 the more they might reach out to us. But I don't know. 471 00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:55,800 Yeah, I mean, you know, if you there's a question that comes 472 00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:00,960 up a lot, and I may have talked about it fairly recently, but 473 00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:02,960 you know, I get a lot of people that asked me this question is, 474 00:43:04,519 --> 00:43:06,840 well, you know, if they didn't want us to see them, 475 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,199 why would they have lights? You know, why would so many of them 476 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,280 have lights? Not all of them, but a lot of them do, 477 00:43:12,679 --> 00:43:19,000 right, And so and you know, I've had people theorize that the lights 478 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,440 have something to do with the propulsion or you know, just maybe a safety 479 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:28,159 measure like like we have on our you know, airplanes. I don't know, 480 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,360 but I mean that's it's kind of like whatever they are, the vehicles, 481 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:37,800 you know, we there's so many witnesses of seeing them that you know, 482 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:39,840 we know that they're here. It's you know, when people ask me 483 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:44,039 if I believe in UFOs, that said, well, it's nothing to say 484 00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:47,639 that I believe, because there's definitely enough data that to say there are unknown 485 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:52,639 objects and flying through our sky. Many people have seen them and witness them, 486 00:43:52,639 --> 00:43:55,559 and that have been totally unexplainable. Most of them are explainable, but 487 00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:04,559 there are some proportion of that percentage are not explainable. And and so it's 488 00:44:04,559 --> 00:44:07,559 not whether you believe, it's just what are they? That's the question, 489 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,880 you know, that's the question we were asking, is we you know, 490 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:17,519 the mystery of it all? I you know, I think if you look 491 00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:22,760 at paradigm shifting events, you know, there's something called a black swan, 492 00:44:23,559 --> 00:44:30,920 which is so it's a single thing, but it's so decisive it brings in 493 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:36,719 a new paradigm, you know, like uh, you know, a skeleton 494 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:44,920 an anthropology, or the discovery of HIV virus that wasn't known previously. You 495 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:52,920 know, there's these one things and to me, the nimics TikTok Tac event 496 00:44:53,360 --> 00:45:00,519 is a black swan. You know, if you look into that and apparently 497 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:06,719 arrow and Sean Kirkpatrick Hasn't you know you only need that one, You only 498 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:13,000 need one thing that changes your paradigm. Yeah, there's more than one out 499 00:45:13,039 --> 00:45:16,559 there. It's like a trial. I'm always you know, people, it's 500 00:45:16,639 --> 00:45:21,960 like a murder trial where you don't have the body, but you've got the 501 00:45:22,199 --> 00:45:25,440 DNA and you've got the evidence. You know, you have the motive and 502 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:30,199 you have witnesses. But where's the body. Where's the body? And so 503 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,280 people, you know, until they see the body, until they know something 504 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,079 can travel faster than they speed of light, or it's on the White House 505 00:45:37,159 --> 00:45:40,679 lawn or whatever it is, you know, so they're looking at the evidence 506 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:45,960 that isn't there, rather than the evidence that is there. And if you 507 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:52,400 look objectively, the evidence that is there, you know meets exceeds our normal 508 00:45:52,960 --> 00:46:00,320 standards of proof. So I guess I want to ask you this question. 509 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:05,800 You know, we're only times flying by here and kg RA has a show 510 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:14,360 coming up, and I think it's seven minutes or so, So I guess 511 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:19,880 I want to ask you what is the most surprising thing? Because you started 512 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,320 really looking into this really on a deep level. I believe you said about 513 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:30,079 three years ago or something like that. So I wanted to know what is 514 00:46:30,119 --> 00:46:35,800 the most surprising thing that you uncovered or that you just had no idea about. 515 00:46:37,159 --> 00:46:44,400 Well, the most surprising finding from the survey is that more knowledge leads 516 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:52,440 to more possibility and more empowerment. You know. That's that's that's really significant 517 00:46:53,880 --> 00:47:06,119 because that supports the narrative of looking objectively at the other I think the most 518 00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:13,320 interesting thing and profound thing is the recognition that, look, there have been 519 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,079 paradigm shifts in the in the past, like you know, continental drift. 520 00:47:17,639 --> 00:47:23,679 A century ago, continental drift was ridiculed impossible, mountains don't move, et 521 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:28,880 cetera. Then we developed in the nineteen fifties the theory of teutonic plates, 522 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,639 and you know, by the nineteen seventies it was a new reality. And 523 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,800 so but that was one thing, or even a Copernicus that was one thing. 524 00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:43,480 This isn't one thing. This is a set of things that challenges our 525 00:47:43,519 --> 00:47:49,039 core notions of reality. What it means to be human, the soliity of 526 00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:54,360 the nation state, the authority of religions, the range of species involved in 527 00:47:54,400 --> 00:48:00,280 their motivations, even the possible presence of hybrids. On that place, it 528 00:48:00,639 --> 00:48:07,599 certainly and upheople in the sciences, and scarily even possible existing military collaborations with 529 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:14,559 NHI. So it's almost like one trap door opening after another dropping through the 530 00:48:14,639 --> 00:48:17,320 rabbit hole. And it's not just one thing. It's it's profound and it 531 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:24,599 would take a long time to digest and have a lot of implications in this 532 00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:30,760 survey probably just skims the service of what those might be, right, And 533 00:48:30,199 --> 00:48:34,280 you know, I think it's kind of you know, we have this little 534 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,719 show going on. It does get out to quite a few people audio in 535 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:43,760 the audio, but still I don't think a lot of people realize the fact 536 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,000 that, you know, that the topic has never come up before on my 537 00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:52,239 show. That more knowledge, you know, leaves leads to more positive, 538 00:48:52,199 --> 00:48:58,159 you know, insight in this. I just think that no one's ever actually, 539 00:48:59,679 --> 00:49:02,559 you know, looked at that before or or done any on that before. 540 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,000 Yeah, well, we have the individual abduction experience and you're I'm sure 541 00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:14,159 you're very familiar with that that that can be pretty rough. But the end, 542 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,000 in the end, it's got a lot of similarities to a near death 543 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:21,159 experience, you know, or shamanic initiation. You go through it and you're 544 00:49:21,159 --> 00:49:23,719 a different person, right, You know, you're more loving, you're more 545 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:30,199 capacity, uh compassionate, you have different skills. You're probably screwing up the 546 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,440 electronics in your house, you know, but you're you know, it's it's 547 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:37,840 like an it's like an NDE. So we have that at the individual level. 548 00:49:37,079 --> 00:49:40,679 And I mean the interesting thing, and the site is organized around this 549 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,239 thing. This thing is so broad. I mean, there's a whole world 550 00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,960 of flying objects, and there's the whole world of hard science, you know, 551 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,920 meta materials and stuff, and then there's and and you know, esoteric 552 00:49:55,039 --> 00:50:00,119 science and retrievals, and then there's a whole world of direct experience. Then 553 00:50:00,159 --> 00:50:05,960 there's a whole world of institutional dynamics, religion, Hollywood, national security, 554 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,159 state, you know, media coverage, all of these things. It's so 555 00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:15,559 broad and generally, as you I think, no, the community tends to 556 00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:21,280 be, you know, pretty segmented. The Soul Conference at Stanford, as 557 00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:27,559 great as it was, it didn't touch on direct experience. Right, So 558 00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,920 hang on, just second rate here, I got to get a note to 559 00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:37,079 Chanel just letting well, I can tell it Chanelle, you know, just 560 00:50:37,199 --> 00:50:38,280 he's on the phone. So we're going to we will have to end the 561 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:43,039 show when you have to jump off. So but anyway, going back to 562 00:50:43,639 --> 00:50:46,920 the someone just posted a question here I thought was kind of interesting, and 563 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:52,599 let me get to that and pull that up. Hang on, okay, 564 00:50:52,679 --> 00:50:59,159 so what does a double slit experiment mean for the human experience? That basically, 565 00:51:00,199 --> 00:51:04,719 if I remember right, the double slit experiment has to do with white 566 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,599 being a wave and a photon at the same time. You know, I 567 00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:12,360 don't know exactly what that means for the human experience. I mean, there's 568 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,760 so many things like entanglement and all that. It just has it just has 569 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:21,639 a to me, it has a meaning of just that we know so little 570 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,559 about what he's really going on. That's the way particle thing. Well, 571 00:51:25,559 --> 00:51:30,920 one of these One of the fascinating things about this phenomena is it crosses over 572 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:37,440 the great divide between the physical and the non physical. So as John Mack 573 00:51:37,519 --> 00:51:43,159 has really well articulated, and we've got a video on this from his speech 574 00:51:43,159 --> 00:51:46,639 at institutent Nerudic Sciences. You know, there's the physical, but what happens 575 00:51:46,639 --> 00:51:50,920 when things appear and disappear? You know, people see them and then they 576 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:52,800 don't see them. Some people see them, other people don't. They on 577 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:59,239 the radar track then they disappear, you know, So we don't have things 578 00:52:00,079 --> 00:52:04,599 at crossover. I mean, we have the world of scientific materialism and the 579 00:52:04,639 --> 00:52:08,760 science can handle that, and then we have the kind of metaphysical world that 580 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:15,440 you know, if you're a psychologist, you're you know, a spiritual person, 581 00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,519 you can talk about that. But what happens when you have these phenomenas 582 00:52:17,559 --> 00:52:24,519 that cross over you know, you know, it's it's very you know, 583 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:30,840 like a near death experience. They're crossing over between realms. So it's a 584 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:37,320 whole mind blowing potential expansion of reality and especially who we are. I mean, 585 00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:43,639 ultimately, it's not about who ets are, It's about who we are 586 00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:49,639 with our unrealized human potential. Right well, Tom, I can't believe it. 587 00:52:49,679 --> 00:52:52,960 We ate up the time already. So it's been a real pleasure, 588 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:58,039 and I like, I like the way you think. I think I told 589 00:52:58,039 --> 00:53:00,559 you that when I started looking through your uh, you know, your your 590 00:53:00,599 --> 00:53:07,039 website and something you sent me, uh basically the slide show or something similar, 591 00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:10,639 and I just saw that you had Jonathan Wygan on. It's someone that 592 00:53:10,679 --> 00:53:15,480 I've interviewed a couple of times, and he's only had a couple of interviews 593 00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:17,039 in his life. And by the way, for those who listen to the 594 00:53:17,039 --> 00:53:20,599 show, he says no more. He's not going to do it any longer 595 00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:23,400 ever. Again that's his Uh, that's what he said, and I think 596 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:28,039 it. I'm not sure exactly what got him upset, but uh, it 597 00:53:28,079 --> 00:53:30,079 could be feedback or something, who knows. But anyway, thank you very 598 00:53:30,159 --> 00:53:34,159 much, Tom. I really appreciate it. We have to we have to 599 00:53:34,199 --> 00:53:37,880 go, all right, take take take care, all right everyone. So 600 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:44,760 we'll be back next week with a good friend, uh Mary Anne Rob and 601 00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:50,159 she'll be with Dave Rich together and we'll have her on next week. Thanks 602 00:53:50,159 --> 00:53:53,880 so much everyone, and we will see you next week. And I'm just 603 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:58,760 looking for my outro here and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.