WEBVTT 1 00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:17.399 Welcome to Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in this edition is 2 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:21.839 Dick Nelms. He's a US Army Air Corps veteran of World War II, 3 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:28.160 where he flew B seventeen bombers for thirty five missions. And mister Nelms, 4 00:00:28.199 --> 00:00:31.399 thank you so much for being with us. You're welcome. Where were you 5 00:00:31.480 --> 00:00:35.799 born and raised? Sir? I was born in Cleveland, Ohio, raised 6 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:39.960 in Niagara Falls, New York. You were born just a few years before 7 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:44.240 the start of the Great Depression. What was the impact of the Depression on 8 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:53.799 your family? Pretty severe? But I never wanted food. Everything was supplied. 9 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:59.479 They sacrificed for our brother and me whether it worked out very well? 10 00:00:59.719 --> 00:01:03.000 Did you do you have an interest in flying when you were young, Yes, 11 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:04.840 very much. How did that start? Well? I was born just 12 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:12.359 five years after World War One was over, and at that time Curtis Jenny 13 00:01:12.439 --> 00:01:19.000 and the French Spad were the planes that I was interested in, And at 14 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:26.079 a young age a plane would fly over and we'd run outside. Airplane airplane. 15 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:30.719 It wasn't like today, of course. How did you hear about the 16 00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:37.439 Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor over the radio? And newspapers. What was your 17 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:42.920 reaction at the time, pretty much like everyone else's would probably take care of 18 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:46.599 those grass huts in a couple of weeks. And were you drafted or did 19 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:49.560 you enlist? I enlisted? And why did you choose the Air Corps so 20 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:55.239 you could fly? Yes? Where did you go for training and then flight 21 00:01:55.319 --> 00:02:02.480 school? I went to Actual Field, Alabama for a pre flight, then 22 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:12.280 started my training in Avon Park, Florida flying the Steerman biplane. That was 23 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.919 not only the first time I've ever been inside of an aeroplane, but first 24 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:19.719 time I went up in an airplane. So it was quite a thrill. 25 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.919 And did it meet the anticipation? Is it what you hoped it would be? 26 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:29.080 Yes? Even more so, what did you love about it? Even 27 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:34.080 today? It was the same thing. You advance, you feel yourself being 28 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:38.599 pushed back in the cocklit a little bit the speed, and then you clear 29 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:46.759 it earth. You're in a different dimension and that's a real thrill. That's 30 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:51.400 awesome. I love that. Was there anything that was particularly difficult for you 31 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:57.280 in flight training? Acrobatics that they called them, now it's aerobatics. I 32 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:04.639 could do them, but I had h a little What what brings on dizziness. 33 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:09.840 I can't remember verdigo, yes, ah, and uh it it would 34 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:15.840 uh stop me from doing too much. That's what put me in the four 35 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:22.000 engine bombers. That that they were afraid that I'd get vertigo flying up a 36 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:24.800 fighter and I might have, I don't know, but here I am alive, 37 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:30.599 so I'm not gonna squawk. So you were okay with being assigned as 38 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:34.840 a bomber pilot? Uh? Not at first? Not at first, you 39 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:38.960 know, it wasn't because it really wasn't what I wanted. I didn't wanna 40 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:46.960 go beyond twent twin engine. But after a few missions you realize not only 41 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:53.280 the importance of what you were doing, but the B seventeen wasn't all that 42 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.400 difficult to fly. What is the key to flying a plane that big? 43 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:02.280 Well? Uh? In advanced training, we we went twin engine in a 44 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:12.840 beach and uh, and going into four engine wasn't really a big deal it 45 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:16.360 you know it. It's it like my primary instructor said, you're gonna fly 46 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:21.000 all kinds of different equipment, but remember they're all stick and rudder. They 47 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:26.079 will all respond the same way that you put into it. And uh, 48 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:31.120 and the B seventeen really was an easy airplane to fly, but very uh 49 00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:46.040 responsive and uh a huge wing area that would uh make high altitude bombing very 50 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:50.279 precise. It w it was uh what it'd called a stable bomb platform. 51 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:55.079 So how much training did you do? But before you were sent to Europe? 52 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:59.839 I think I had about two hundred and twenty five missions of hours. 53 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:03.199 Didn't keep two track h t uh too close track of it at the time, 54 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:14.360 but we we uh got a ten man crew in practice in North Texas, 55 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:19.879 in in bombing at night and so forth. And uh when when we 56 00:05:19.879 --> 00:05:26.680 were ready, we flew over the North Sea at the Atlantic, not the 57 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:31.879 North Sea, and landed in nuts Corner, Ireland. Did you do more 58 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:36.839 training over there before you flew your first mission? Well, you could call 59 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:45.079 it training. It was more of of just getting used to what's gonna happen 60 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:49.439 and flying a practice mission. Uh. I think we flew two of them. 61 00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:54.839 Just orientation was what I'm trying to say. So you were a co 62 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:58.120 pilot at first, right, yes, tell me about the rest of your 63 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:01.360 crew. Well, we had had the pilot or less seat, and I 64 00:06:01.399 --> 00:06:08.120 was in the right seat, and uh had a bombardier and navigator in the 65 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:15.639 nose. The top turret gunner was directly behind the pilots had two fifty caliber 66 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:20.879 machine guns. Then as you go on down the airplane, you passed the 67 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:27.879 bombay and you have a little radio room with a radio operator. Then further 68 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:30.480 down in the waist you have a gunner on each side called the left and 69 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:38.560 right wasted gunners, and a tail gunner applying backwards on a bicycle seat. 70 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:44.240 Oh, I forgot the ball turret underneath. Yeah. Tell me what went 71 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:47.480 into each mission. How did you prepare for the mission before you even took 72 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:53.319 off, and what was the takeoff and formation process like? Well, when 73 00:06:53.480 --> 00:07:00.920 when we became operational, we'd be asleep in a quancert hut and the d 74 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:04.040 door would fly open, sometimes three in the morning. The light would come 75 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:09.360 on and the c que the charge of quarters, would be standing there shouting 76 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:13.920 at us, up and at him. Fly boys, rise and shine off 77 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:15.839 your back and out of the sack, you know, and let's go. 78 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:23.720 Let's go up, up up. Interesting story connected to that. Our bambadier 79 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:28.000 got tired of it one day and threw his shoe at him. It went 80 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:30.480 skinting across the floor. He wasn't trying to hit him, but when he 81 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:35.439 walked out, he says, I hope your accuracy improved somewhat later today. 82 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:41.959 I think that was the only time we left getting ready for combat. So 83 00:07:42.279 --> 00:07:46.800 when did you get your briefing? Uh? After we had uh breakfast, 84 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:50.839 we'd eat all we could, cause it could be ten or eleven hours before 85 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:56.800 we'd eat again. People would say, why take a lunch up there? 86 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:00.360 Yeah, y twenty five thousand feet it's forty five and fifty blows zero. 87 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:05.199 Your lunch is not gonna be edible very long. But uh uh after Yeah, 88 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:15.360 after breakfast, we'd go to the briefing room and uh all sit and 89 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:18.600 wait for the commanding officer to come out. It'll all jump to attention, 90 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:24.399 and he would announce where we were going, generally why we were going there. 91 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:31.560 They'd bring a uh a kind of a blackboard out and they'd have a 92 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:37.679 map with uh a ribbon tied from our base to the target. If it 93 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:45.000 was Berlin. Everybody would go, oh no, but uh yeah, and 94 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:52.159 then then uh they'd also tell us what kind of bonds we were carrying, 95 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:56.720 the weather report, and uh the position each one of us would be flying 96 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:03.720 in an eighteen aircraft formation. So when that was taken care of, we'd 97 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:07.440 go out and get on trucks and then drop us off at our airplanes that 98 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:13.440 were dispersed around the perimeter of the field. Get aboard, go through a 99 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:20.039 pre fight cockpit check, start up the engines, check them, give the 100 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:26.360 ground crew the signal to pull the chocks out in front of the wheels and 101 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:30.120 release the brakes, and go out and stand in line. Wait, wait 102 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:35.919 for the takeoff time. Now, once you took off, there are so 103 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:39.159 many bombers on many of these days taking off. How crowded were the skies 104 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:48.720 and how complicated was it to get into your formation. Well, if the 105 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:52.879 airfields around us, the groups around us did it the correct thing, it 106 00:09:54.480 --> 00:10:00.320 would be. You know, crowding would have different times. Just ten it's 107 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:05.480 apart, would make a big difference. Our group leader would be poised ready 108 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:09.639 to go, get a signal from the tower. He'd do his takeoff run 109 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:13.559 and we'd follow about every fifteen seconds, and he he would have a have 110 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:18.559 a course around the field up above, not get off into the air space 111 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:22.919 of another airfield. We were crowd only five miles apart. You have different 112 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:31.039 groups and uh h h uh. We we would join in the position where 113 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:37.120 we uh designated to be, and when that happened, climbing all the while 114 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:45.240 at at the amazing five hundred feet a minute, we'd uh get into eighteen 115 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:50.799 aircraft formation in three six aircrafts squadrons, be the lead squadron, a high 116 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:56.720 squadron and the low squadron eighteen and head out over the North Sea at a 117 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:03.320 designated time on the way to our target. How long did it take you 118 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:11.360 to get information? You know, I can only guess maybe in between fifteen 119 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:16.960 minutes and a half hour somewhere it would take some time. That's Dick Nelms, 120 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.320 a US Army Air Corps veteran of World War II. He flew thirty 121 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.919 five missions as a B seventeen pilot and co pilot. Still to come in 122 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:30.879 this edition, mister Nelms will tell us about his most harrowing missions in the 123 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:35.320 face of German anti aircraft fire. Andy explains how he and other bombers saved 124 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:41.039 thousands of American lives in Normandy. But up next, Nelms continues his explanation 125 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:46.559 of what went into his bombing missions. I'm Greg Corumbus and this is Veterans' 126 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:52.440 chronicles sixty seconds of service This sixty seconds of Service is presented by T Mobile. 127 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.919 T Mobile offers exclusive discounts for a veteran and military families and are proud 128 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:01.600 supporters of the National Defense Network. Visit t mobile dot com slash military to 129 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:05.559 learn more about how they support our military community. In the heart of Mesquite, 130 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:09.200 Texas, the local Police Explorer Post one forty five has taken on the 131 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:13.200 role of guardian angels for the city's disabled, seniors and veterans. Following a 132 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:18.159 recent storm, a commendable group of youth volunteers banded together to clear debris and 133 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:24.080 provide assistance, embodying the true meaning of community service. Their efforts, which 134 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:28.039 were crucial in helping those affected by the storm, have been widely recognized and 135 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.799 appreciated. The Mesquite Police Department did not hold back on praise, highlighting the 136 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:37.759 young volunteer's hard work and selflessness. Today's sixty seconds of Service is brought to 137 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:41.639 you by Prevagen. Prevagen is the number one pharmacist recommended memory support brand. 138 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:46.759 You can find Prevagen in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Sixty seconds of 139 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:52.320 Service This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbas our guest in this edition is 140 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:56.639 Dick Nelms. He is a US Army Air Corps veteran of World War Two, 141 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:01.240 during which he piloted or co pilot did thirty five missions aboard a B 142 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:07.519 seventeen bomber. We now continue Nelm's explanation of what a bombing mission involved with 143 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:13.279 a focus on the brutally cold temperatures on board. Well, when you get 144 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.919 up to twenty five thousand feet or above, it would always be forty five 145 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:28.480 to fifty below zero inside the airplane. You dealt with it by the two 146 00:13:28.519 --> 00:13:35.120 pilots had a heater pulling hot air on us, and I would dress with 147 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:39.279 a leather jacket and wool pants and sheepskin boots and warm gloves, and that 148 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:46.320 was it. I didn't want that heater to go out, but carry a 149 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:50.120 whole set of sheepskin clothes in case that happened. The rest of the crew 150 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:54.720 had electrical heated suits, just like an electric blanket, and they'd plug it 151 00:13:54.759 --> 00:14:01.879 in their spot. Have a risstat never heard any complaining as your information, 152 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:07.120 and approaching a target, what would be the procedure, Well, the lead 153 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:15.279 aircraft in in the U lead group, lead squadron would be on autopilot all 154 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:20.559 that time, and as he turned, we would get to the initial point 155 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:26.200 the ip and he would turn for the first time towards the target, and 156 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:33.320 from there to the target would be the bomb run. He would switch the 157 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:41.279 vertical control of the aircraft over to the northern bomb site that his bombadeer would 158 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:48.799 be using. So the vombiteder has a vertical and horizontal cross here. Now, 159 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:54.480 if he changes the vertical hair see here the target, he drifts to 160 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:58.639 the left the targets here. So as he pulls it back, the aircraft 161 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:03.799 will automatically follow and pick up the corrected heading. Uh. The horizontal, 162 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:09.759 of course, is is the speed across the ground after the bombs were dropped. 163 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:16.080 I assume you resumed control of the plane. Correct, Well, I'll 164 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:24.679 I'll go ahead and I'll finish explaining that maybe the lead vombadier is a good 165 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:31.279 vombadeer. They don't fool around with that, and he puts in information into 166 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:37.919 that northern bomb site almost like a computer. Uh. Our altitude, h 167 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:41.879 estimated ground speed, the type of bombs we were carrying, everything that would 168 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:46.720 have an effect on the accuracy of those bombs when they hit the ground, 169 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:54.799 and when at the right time comes out come his bombs. He shouts, 170 00:15:54.879 --> 00:16:00.240 bombs away. There K have colored ribbons on'em. All of the other 171 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:04.639 bombeders have their thumb on a toggle switch, and when they see that and 172 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:10.559 the hair bombs away, they sheve that forward. And uh people say, 173 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:14.759 well, you have thought all the vombaeders would would be siding on the target. 174 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:19.000 Well, think the the targets here. You you got a squadron of 175 00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:23.879 six airplanes. They're all t siding on the target. When they get to 176 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:32.480 the target, they're all gonna run together and crash if they're accurate. And 177 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:37.840 uh so the l this have the lead bombaders. It would do it if 178 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:45.720 if we were bombing a uh A factory or uh A s apparently enclosed situation. 179 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:52.440 You've got if we're carrying a five hundred pounds general purpose bombs, which 180 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.759 generally we did, you got two hundred and sixteen bombs all going down at 181 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:02.840 once on a selbo and it doesn't take a lot to wipe out a target. 182 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:04.960 A lot of them they're gonna miss because we gotta be careful not to 183 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:10.599 slide underneath each other and have the bombs come down through, you know, 184 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:15.759 up on the higher squadron so we have to spread out a little bit, 185 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:19.720 and there there's gonna be f what they call collateral damage on the outside. 186 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:29.079 You can't help that. But uh yeah, and if it's a uh a 187 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:37.240 oil refinery or marshaling yards, railroad yards, maybe a maybe an airfield that 188 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:41.519 they've d Nazis have taken over, we'd we'd do it a a a train 189 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:48.359 bomb where you're probably seen uh coming out like that about every half second one 190 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:55.799 comes out and so they hit the ground like that and just try to destroy 191 00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:00.519 a U a larger area. How would you describe the am out of any 192 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:04.680 aircraft fire and enemy fighters that you had to deal with. Well, we 193 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:11.839 only had about three fighter attacks. That was quite different than the first Eighth 194 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:18.359 Air Force guys that got over there. I I really don't know the reason 195 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:23.319 exactly, but uh, we were getting more, more and more bombers and 196 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:29.599 they they just couldn't attack all all of our groups. They didn't have enough 197 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:33.720 fighters. And then we got our fighters over there P. Fifty one and 198 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:38.960 a P forty seven, and uh they engaged the Luftwaffe as well as escort 199 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:48.559 Us. But uh uh General Doolittle, the story I got when he came 200 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:55.440 over he said, the escort is not working too well because we're going deeper 201 00:18:55.480 --> 00:19:00.640 into Germany and your fighters cannot carry that enough enough fuel. They have to 202 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:06.640 let go and go home. Let's do this. Let's take your P forty 203 00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:12.279 seven with US eight fifty caliber machine guns firing armor piercing and sundiary bullets, 204 00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:22.079 and the P fifty one with six machine guns and strafe those airfields. Shoot 205 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:27.240 those planes up before they come up. It's such a simple thing. It 206 00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:33.079 worked, didn't have any more fighter attacks. That's Dick Nelms, a US 207 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:37.759 Army Air Corps veteran of World War II. He flew thirty five missions as 208 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:41.640 a B seventeen bomber pilot and co pilot. Still to come, we'll hear 209 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:47.079 how Nelms help to save the lives of thousands of American forces in Normandy. 210 00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:51.799 But in a moment, we'll hear a bit more about how bombing missions unfolded, 211 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:56.680 some of his most harrowing missions, and how Nelms dealt with fear. 212 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:03.519 I'm Greg Corumbus, and this Veterans Chronicles. This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm 213 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:08.119 Greg Corumbus. Our guest in this edition is Dick Nelms, a US Army 214 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:14.119 Air Corps veteran of World War Two, he piloted or co piloted thirty five 215 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:18.880 missions aboard of B seventeen bomber. In just a moment, you'll hear about 216 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.319 some of Nelm's most harrowing missions and how he dealt with fear. But first 217 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:30.599 he explains how much fuel was required for one B seventeen bomber for each mission. 218 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:37.000 Well, we started out with thirty six hundred gallons of chaos one hundred 219 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:44.920 octane on a average mission, maybe ten hour mission if it's just going to 220 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.480 France and back. They don't put that much in the airplane, but you 221 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:53.400 got fourteen hundred in each wing and then another eight hundred into the Bombay, 222 00:20:55.240 --> 00:21:02.319 okay, So the fighters ended up with auxiliary UH tanks. Some of them 223 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:08.119 had one on each wing that would increase their range. But it never never 224 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:12.759 did work too well. I think our our b someone said, uh that 225 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:19.519 our our bombers out out uh grew the fighters. They so many of the 226 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:27.039 bombers came that the fighters did not have enough to escort all the bombers. 227 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:30.920 So they'd kind of flip a coin. Who were going with today? You 228 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:36.119 know that's uh, that's not true, of course, what yeah, and 229 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:41.680 ended up where we didn't need'em too much. After D Day, their 230 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:47.440 ground forces and tanks that they were being pushed back into in through France and 231 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:55.079 towards Germany, and they were taking the guns with them. So actually our 232 00:21:55.160 --> 00:22:03.240 targets became more difficult with more handier fire. Usually it was eighty eight and 233 00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:08.559 a hundred and five millimeters c cannon shells s. Berlin had added that with 234 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:17.519 a hundred and twenty eight, and uh Berlin was a bad target. They 235 00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:25.240 here again, they c claimed that Berlin had two thousand the Berlin air area, 236 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:32.119 the large area, two thousand antier craw comes and when when you get 237 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:33.759 in there, you know that's h if you like everyone, they is shooting 238 00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:38.119 at you. So that's why in the briefing room you go, you got 239 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:41.759 the groans if you were going to Berlin. Yeah, okay, the the 240 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.880 guy. They didn't mean it, you know, it was just but nobody 241 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:49.799 wanted to die a and this this was getting kind of close to it. 242 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:56.400 How did you deal with Flack? Well, the the deal would need not 243 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:02.200 to be afraid of it. N there's nothing you can do about it when 244 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:07.599 you're on a bomb run the bombardier is sighting on the target, and it's 245 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:15.000 straightened level from then on. And the Nazis know this, and uh I 246 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.039 if he tries to, people say, t I, can you take evasive 247 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:23.039 action where you don't know where those shells are gonna burst? The ones that 248 00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:26.759 are there have not bothered you. It's the ones that you haven't seen yet 249 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:30.799 that the n y. You don't know where it's gonna happen. You might 250 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:34.920 evasive action right into one of'em. So it's straightened level and the Nazis 251 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.759 know this. They also know that the cannon shells will go up about a 252 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:45.119 thousand feet a second, and the range finders establish our altitude, like say 253 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:51.359 twenty five thousand feet. They set their fuses to to explode at twenty five 254 00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:56.799 seconds. Then they figure, if we're here, where will we be in 255 00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:04.400 twenty five seconds. So they have that convergence and it come awfully close. 256 00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:11.759 Sometimes I have to say too close. Well, you had thirty five missions 257 00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:15.720 that were successful. Obviously some of them were a little more harrowing than others, 258 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:22.680 including your fourth mission, in which you claimed to return with more than 259 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.920 three hundred holes in your B seventeen. Tell me about that I think we 260 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:32.000 got into the jet stream. I'd say the lead aircraft. You know, 261 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:36.000 we're following along like lemmings, so we just do what we're supposed to do, 262 00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:44.119 formation always, And it slowed us down because to keep us straight course 263 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:49.279 you have to turn into the wind, so you're going like that, but 264 00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:55.319 it really slows you down. Our ground speed, which would be around two 265 00:24:55.440 --> 00:25:00.559 hundred miles an hour without any wind, probably reduced to about one hundred. 266 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:04.680 We were in flat for almost a half hour by all of those guns, 267 00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:10.000 and I knew we were k taking a lot of hits. It could hear 268 00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:15.119 it going through the airplane, coming through that aluminum skin. Not a good 269 00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:21.079 sound. And uh, when we got back now it's STI still flying in 270 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:22.839 the right seat at the time, cause I was doing a lot of the 271 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.559 flying. It's hard to exp I want to get into that, but it 272 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:33.519 was a pilot copilot situation. And uh, when when we landed and decided 273 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:37.440 to kind count the holes, got tired of the county of three hundred holes, 274 00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:44.119 it could have been four because we didn't even get underneath. Nothing Vioble 275 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:48.680 had been hit, none of the crew had been hurt. Just everything worked. 276 00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:52.200 You mentioned the sound. I don't know if it's possible to recreate the 277 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:56.000 sound of those pieces hitting you. But how would you describe the sound? 278 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:07.039 Oh like, maybe you'd you'd take a hammer and hit us, uh fifty 279 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:17.480 gallon tank, not real hard, but but that unrelenting boom, you know. 280 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.039 And of course we had headsets on, but it didn't take much sound 281 00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:26.839 out. Yeah, hard rubber And that was the end of that plane's use 282 00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:30.480 in bombing runs. Right. Well, they uh, they they always patch 283 00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:36.400 the holes, but the aluminum patches stick out about the eighth of an inch 284 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:41.079 beyond the the skin of the plane. They had so many patches on it 285 00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:47.880 that it slowed the plane down, and uh, it was no longer operational. 286 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:52.359 They could stay with the formation. If you added power, you're not 287 00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:57.480 gonna get home because you're gonna be burning more fuel. So they take all 288 00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:03.559 the armament out of it, make it light, paint a WW for war 289 00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:10.839 weary on a vertical stabilay so and use it as a taxi going through different 290 00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:17.160 error fields on business most of the time. And they don't want to throw 291 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:22.079 it away. Well, that plane, I understand, was called Rowdy Rebel 292 00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:26.720 two, and then your new plane was called Pandora's box. Who got to 293 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:33.319 name the planes? Oh radio man he he he explained that it was Greek 294 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.599 mythology where Zeus gave ten door a box with the evils of the world in 295 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:44.359 there and told her not to open it. But this was the first knock 296 00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:49.319 against a womanhood. She couldn't do it. She had to open it and 297 00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:56.440 it you know, it's a Greek table and uh, and that's that's we 298 00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:00.799 figured, we're we're the ten evils of the world inside that airplane, look 299 00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:04.640 out for us and potentially getting in trouble too. As Yeah, as the 300 00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:08.880 missions went on, did you fly missions in conjunction with D Day? Uh? 301 00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:11.680 No, I didn't. Our group did. I. I was on 302 00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.319 a pass in London. The group did, but they brought their bombs back 303 00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:22.839 because there was such a lousy day. They had an undercast and w W 304 00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:27.480 the we didn't know how far our troops had advanced, if any, off 305 00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:34.000 the beaches. So we're you going to drop bombs? And uh it really 306 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:40.279 wasn't the job for the heavy bombers at all. And uh, some of 307 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:47.000 them dropped, but they I I don't think they they had any good conclusions. 308 00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:52.200 But no, I was house in London in the Cumberland Hotel on a 309 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:59.559 on Paths and the chambermaid came in, grabbed my big toe and said, 310 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:03.680 it's a invasion day. It's invasion day. And I tell people today, 311 00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:07.599 if they want to wake somebody up in a hurry, grab their big toe 312 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:14.079 and yell it's invasion day. You'd be surprised at the results. That'll get 313 00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:18.519 your attention. Sure, now, about halfway through your thirty five missions, 314 00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:22.000 you moved from copilot to pilot. Is that about right? That's pretty close. 315 00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:26.559 Yeah, what differences did you institute as the pilot if any? Well, 316 00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:32.680 there was a little problem. I was checked out as a pilot, 317 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:40.400 but where's my crew? I had to wait for a crew deform. My 318 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:48.000 lieutenant colonel commanding officer said that he checked me out. He gave me two 319 00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:55.680 landings to make and he said, instead of saying you made it, he 320 00:29:55.720 --> 00:30:00.200 said, do you mind still flying in the right seat until I can get 321 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:06.200 you your own crew? And I said, yes, sir, and it'll 322 00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:12.079 be okay. But uh, I had I don't wanna go into it. 323 00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:19.240 But but the uh first pilot who had gone through B seventeen training I never 324 00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:25.799 had. I went cold cold hands right into the B seventeen. Nobody told 325 00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:29.960 me anything. He was supposed to help me, didn't say a word, 326 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.640 didn't realize I was gonna have to do a lot of the flying, and 327 00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.799 I did. I did, uh as least as much as he did. 328 00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:44.680 Because he was a drinker. And even though the two clubs that down cown 329 00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:48.680 and me and the Officer's club would close if we knew a mission was gonna 330 00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:55.240 happen the next day, he had a way of getting it. And uh, 331 00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:57.799 more than one mission. I flew the whole thing while he sobered up. 332 00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:06.680 And that that's difficult without any any relief. So when you became a 333 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:10.319 pilot, the lead pilot, you got a new crew. How tough of 334 00:31:10.359 --> 00:31:15.079 an adjustment was it to leave the rest of that crew behind and work with 335 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:19.000 these new guys. Well, it was interesting because the crew I left behind 336 00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:26.920 went home. Uh, they had done about thirty missions, some twenty nine. 337 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:33.359 Because the first pilot that I left, whether it was true or not, 338 00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:37.119 said his wife had trouble in childbirth and they let him go home. 339 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:45.960 So instead of having me go into the Pandora's box situation, they figured they 340 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:49.000 might not want to listen to me like they did him because I was a 341 00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:55.279 silver, a right seater going into the left seat. They didn't know all 342 00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:57.000 of that. They didn't know all the times I was flying the hole. 343 00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:04.200 But uh, you know, you know, tattle tale it. It just 344 00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:09.160 couldn't it could. I just couldn't do it. But yeah, it it 345 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:16.519 really wasn't difficult I I had. I was pretty good. I flew very 346 00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:21.519 good formation. I know you were good. Was was your crew new or 347 00:32:21.559 --> 00:32:24.440 had they been had some experience. I didn't get a chance to talk to 348 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:32.240 him very much. I think they came off of crews that had either had 349 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:40.960 been hurt or killed and they were there by themselves, which is more more 350 00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:47.359 likely what happened. And uh, but they were they were all good and 351 00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:51.920 they were that didn't give you any trouble at all. I want to talk 352 00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:55.680 about one other specific mission that was rather intense. You had a close call 353 00:32:55.759 --> 00:33:00.279 while bombing a Messerschmidt factory outside of Leipzig. Tell me what you faced that 354 00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:06.279 day and how you dealt with it. Well. I had learned uh a 355 00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:13.759 trick on a han handle fear. Uh One time w we had a bo 356 00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:17.440 uh ah a shell burst no more than a hundred feet in front of us, 357 00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:23.400 right a little above our level. And it it took us one second 358 00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:30.319 to get into that burst and my plane bounced flat came through the plane. 359 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:35.240 My mind, my brain said, if that had gone off a second later, 360 00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:37.799 I'd be on my way down. This may be the day I don't 361 00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:43.559 go home. I forced myself to say, isn't it a great at went 362 00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:46.960 off? When it did, everything is okay. Now that's how I took 363 00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:53.039 care of fear. I found a positive and uh uh. A chaplain stopped 364 00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:57.319 me once after a mission, he said, how did go I said, 365 00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.720 fine, we probably picked up a whole or two and and uh he said, 366 00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:06.240 I've been thinking about this. When you're up there. You have no 367 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:10.599 control over where those shells are gonna burst up there, but you do have 368 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:16.199 control of what's going on up here. And that was pretty good advice. 369 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:22.599 I like that. What I would do is t to think, now, 370 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:29.480 this this mission is extremely important. We're we're giving a hitler more than he 371 00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:34.400 can handle. You gotta keep it up at at a little bit of courage. 372 00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:40.840 See, and it does doesn't matter what I do. Those shells are 373 00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:46.119 gonna burst. Why be afraid of'em? They can't do it surely doesn't 374 00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:53.039 do a thing but reduce your value up there. And uh, you know, 375 00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:57.920 if if if you get a hit on one of your engines and the 376 00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:00.800 catches on fire, the cop it has a button he can push in it. 377 00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:06.199 Ninety percent of the time the extinguisher will put that fire out. But 378 00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:12.119 if it's a wing fire with gasoline in there, it's bailout, get out 379 00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:15.039 of there, because that wing is going to crumple and you're going to go 380 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:20.519 into a spin and then you cannot. Then you're nailed to whatever position you're 381 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:23.760 in and you're going to go down with it. Things like that. They 382 00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:29.880 expect that from the pilot. And if if the pilot's up there with white 383 00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:37.880 knuckles, scared of his own being, he's probably not going to have good 384 00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:40.880 answers. He's going to have an answer that might be thinking how he's going 385 00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:45.679 to get out of the airport. That's Dick ne ELM's a US Army Air 386 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:50.559 Corps veteran of World War Two, during which he flew b seventeen bombers. 387 00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.280 In just a moment, you'll hear Nelms claim to fame more than two decades 388 00:35:54.320 --> 00:36:00.559 after the war. But up next he'll give the details on that stress bombing 389 00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:06.599 run in Leipzig and much more. I'm Greg Corumbus, and this is Veterans 390 00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:12.719 Chronicles. This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in this 391 00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:16.639 edition is Dick Nelms, a US Army Air Corps veteran from World War II. 392 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:22.519 He flew thirty five missions in B seventeen bombers. In this final segment, 393 00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:29.199 you'll hear about Dick nelms lasting legacy in Washington State and you'll explain how 394 00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:32.679 American bombers helped to save the lives of thousands of American forces in Normandy. 395 00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:38.199 But now he takes us into that rough mission into Leipzig. We headed down 396 00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:45.559 the bomb run at Leipzig and a shell came up right underneath the first volley. 397 00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:50.880 Instead of seeing it out there starting the first all around, the first 398 00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:54.639 was right underneath the plane. The plane bounced into the air, very unexpected, 399 00:36:54.760 --> 00:37:00.880 very violent, and it scared me, and uh, I was trying 400 00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:05.199 to think of some way of getting rid of the f s, the the 401 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:10.079 fear, and I couldn't. I had accept in about ten seconds, I 402 00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:15.519 became ashamed of myself and that did it. And then I got angry at 403 00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:23.679 the Germans from making me go through that fure situation, and that helped here 404 00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:30.800 I am okay angry at him, and another shell burst out here a little 405 00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:37.239 higher than us. I think three holes came through the nose, and I 406 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.920 lean, I said, you missed me, and I I knew it wasn't 407 00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:45.400 going to change the war, you know, But did you get tired of 408 00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.440 feeling like a wood duck in a carnival shooting gallery up there? You wanna 409 00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:54.360 throw something at him? Then I I called the uh vall turret guner and 410 00:37:54.360 --> 00:38:00.760 and it it went like this pilot the ball over, wh okay art, 411 00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:05.440 Yeah, but can you be a little more careful up there? And then 412 00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:10.519 re our radio man also right where the exploded does i'mo take two in case 413 00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:19.320 you're interested. They're making jokes and we're getting shot at. But uh yeah, 414 00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:22.840 that was my life sick situation. It was a uh A, a 415 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:25.840 tough mission on our uh on the eighth or fort I I think a lot 416 00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:30.760 of planes were shot up pretty badly. What was it like knowing that you 417 00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:36.239 had completed your thirty five missions? Well, not as gratifying as you would 418 00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:40.039 think. You kind of hated to let go of the rings. You know, 419 00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:52.480 there there was a time where missions became s so repredictable that that you 420 00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:58.480 you weren't awfully s afraid of them anymore. It was almost a routine. 421 00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:04.440 It's hard to expY y y. Maybe maybe your courage had been built out. 422 00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:12.119 Uh, but we k we kept thinking about the importance of what we 423 00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:17.000 were doing. Uh the Eighth I figured the Eighth Air Force changed hit was 424 00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:24.039 strategy from offense to defense, and and it it allowed our troops to more 425 00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:30.920 much more easily take over Germany. We didn't win the war, but we 426 00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:36.280 s saved a lot of American lives. I had uh one mission where I 427 00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:39.239 know I saved thousands of American lives. Tell me about that. Well, 428 00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:45.519 it was a wa uh in Saint loue On on the Brest Peninsula and the 429 00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:51.760 s near nor Normandy where our troops were being held down by a much larger, 430 00:39:52.559 --> 00:40:00.480 more powerful German force. And uh they they said, the only thing 431 00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:06.159 we can think of is to get some bombers over there and bomb'em. 432 00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:10.000 And and I I went on uh uh two missions two days and other other 433 00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:16.800 bomber uh missions too, I understand. And uh we we dropped anti personnel 434 00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:24.119 bombs just a couple of miles ahead of our own troops, and it wiped 435 00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:32.360 out thousands of gerymanists. The the c commanding general was re reported saying, 436 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:37.760 I have no more troops, no more guns, and no more tanks. 437 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:43.360 All is lost. It wasn't quite that bad. Uh, our our our 438 00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:47.480 force went through. They called them the saint little breakthrough and uh, but 439 00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:54.480 there was still resistance. It wasn't it. It wasn't a cakewalk. But 440 00:40:55.960 --> 00:41:00.000 we will we all felt we we saved a lot of American lives. One 441 00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:07.679 more time. Two days before June sixth d Day, we were sent up 442 00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:15.119 to Patti Calais in northern France to take out some large Boer coastal guns and 443 00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:21.119 we did boond up there along the coast, came back. Another group went 444 00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:25.039 up the next day, did it and uh, we said, wonder why 445 00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:30.280 that's so important. We were making hip Er think that's where the invasion was 446 00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:35.679 going to happen. And it worked. He got a whole bunch of his 447 00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:42.559 h tons of divisions and guns and everything up there, and even when it 448 00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:46.920 happened in Normandy, he still didn't believe it. But as you know, 449 00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:52.559 Normandy k killed a lot of men up two thousand something. It could have 450 00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:57.800 been as complete disaster if that hadn't happened. Yeah, the deception at the 451 00:41:57.800 --> 00:42:00.599 pod cost nobody had a good idea, and to be involved in that was 452 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:05.639 it made me feel real good. Oh that was critical, Yeah, absolutely 453 00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:08.719 critical. In addition to dropping bombs towards the end of the war, you 454 00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:13.880 also had a chance to drop some relief supplies food and France tell us a 455 00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:19.639 little bit about that. Well. Uh, a tour of three officers showed 456 00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:25.239 up after I finished my tour. I uh want well, I wanted us 457 00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:29.199 to stick around the field for a while, and so I would to get 458 00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:34.119 home for Christmas. And they said that's fine. I had duties to perform. 459 00:42:34.159 --> 00:42:40.559 But they had sk skegs loaded with sandbags and wanted to They had in 460 00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:45.280 the bombay of AB seventeen, one of them or two of them, and 461 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:51.599 they wanted somebody to go out and fly it and see how it would work. 462 00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:58.000 I was the one. And uh, I not only I, I 463 00:42:58.119 --> 00:43:00.760 only dropped them, but I dropped them at the speed I thought they should 464 00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:07.760 be dropped, and the altitude and and I remember it was five hundred tee 465 00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:13.920 and speed was was anywhere from eighty five to ninety miles an hour, which 466 00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:16.719 I pretty well hanging on the propellers. But you could you could fly at 467 00:43:16.719 --> 00:43:25.320 that s loose speed. And I wrote the specifications for and then I came 468 00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:30.360 home before I found out any results. But they did it. They s, 469 00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:37.360 theyd S dropped supplies and food to the French freedom fighters, the the 470 00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:46.360 Maquis and uh UH I think in Scandinavia, Belgium f food. I they 471 00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:51.360 did some good. I mean, I was happy about that. That was 472 00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:57.079 one of the reasons that the UH, the f the French uh con Consulate 473 00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:05.159 gave me the Legion of Merit citation, the highest award they can give. 474 00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:09.800 Yeah, I was on the chevalier level, which is night on a knight. 475 00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:15.679 You don't have to call me sir. Well, you have one other 476 00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:19.280 claim to fame, at least one other claim to fame I want to talk 477 00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:24.679 about, and that is that you became an accomplished artist and your work stands 478 00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:30.440 in perpetuity in the state of Washington as you design the state seal, which 479 00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:34.360 also appears on the state flag. Well, I'll go back just a moment 480 00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:40.719 after the war. If you had a lot of points. They get points 481 00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:46.039 for this to that being in combat. You had to decide whether you wanted 482 00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:55.719 to realist in the regular army or be a suitian. And a general would 483 00:44:55.920 --> 00:45:00.599 interview one guy and me interview me. He said, what would you like 484 00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:01.880 to do now? I said, well, sir, would I still be 485 00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:07.800 flying? Oh, you'd be flying, probably be flying a pencil. In 486 00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:12.519 other words, they would want my experience and my intelligence to be behind a 487 00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:16.599 desk. They can get pilots like that. See And I said, well, 488 00:45:17.719 --> 00:45:21.159 y, I think you've hit it right on the no, sir, 489 00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:24.199 I always wanted to be an an artist. I and always draw, drew 490 00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:29.719 a little bit, and I figured I could be better. I I wanna 491 00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.079 get out and go to art school. He said, well, that's probably 492 00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:37.480 a good decision for you, and good luck. And that's what I did. 493 00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:47.519 And uh it it t it came about where uh the art Director's group 494 00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:57.159 of Seattle somehow felt that I could be uh selected, I should be selected 495 00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:04.760 to do the state seal of Washington where one of our people was on the 496 00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:12.599 art board of the state noticing that all the communication had a different seal on 497 00:46:12.679 --> 00:46:16.159 it and it just like a f facty you can't do that, you should 498 00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:23.280 have one. And and so I I went back in to eighteen eighty nine 499 00:46:23.559 --> 00:46:28.559 when when it the state became one, and figured that would be a good 500 00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:35.119 point. Help do something that looked like it was done then and it would 501 00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:40.320 last. If I did something that was quite contemporary today, there'd be probably 502 00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:45.679 one or two more than had already been done, because mine would be out 503 00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:52.239 of style possibly. And so I found some uh, some good art work 504 00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:58.920 done back then and made a few changes in it, and uh further than 505 00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:05.360 the circle, the s the seal of the State of Washington eighteen eighty nine, 506 00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:09.480 and it was accepted by all of the l legislature except one man. 507 00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:15.559 Incidentally, his name was Nate Washington. He claimed he was the descendant of 508 00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:21.480 George and it didn't look like him, is it he? Is it? 509 00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:25.719 That would make him? No? One way or you know? But uh, 510 00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:29.920 I always laugh at that. I can't help it. What are you 511 00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:34.360 most proud of from your service? I have to go back to World War 512 00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:42.440 Two and in the way I felt, I was proud to be part of 513 00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:53.920 destroying part of Hitler's war machine irreparable damage. And uh I did it. 514 00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:58.679 I did it well, and I did it right, and I got decorated 515 00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:04.719 for it. I I think that's pretty special. Yeah, it's only one 516 00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:14.679 man's story, although I would think that all of the bomb groups had almost 517 00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:19.239 the same types of stories. They're all going on missions, all getting shot 518 00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:23.400 at, having holes put in their airplanes, and well, one thing I'd 519 00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:31.280 like to to add about danger. When when you're up there at twenty five 520 00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:37.559 thousand feet forty five or fifty plow zero, breathing pure oxygen, w on 521 00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:45.159 a mask, you're already in danger and it's part of the job. They 522 00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:49.119 they call us heroes. I don't think n any of us felt that way. 523 00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:52.320 You know, a a winder watcher, washer in a in a uh 524 00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:58.440 skyscraper has some danger that goes with his job. They call him a hero. 525 00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:01.239 No, he's so why do it for us? Accept the fact I'm 526 00:49:01.320 --> 00:49:06.239 getting a shot out. Captain Nelms, Sir, it's been an honor to 527 00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:08.840 meet you today. Thank you for your time, and thank you most of 528 00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:13.119 all for your tremendous service to our country. Well, thank you. We've 529 00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:17.199 been speaking with Dick Nelms, retired US Army captain, veteran of World War 530 00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:22.440 II, where he flew b seventeen bombers for thirty five missions. I'm Greg 531 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:37.760 Corumbus, reporting for Veterans Chronicles. Hi, this is Greg Corumbus and thanks 532 00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:44.159 for listening to Veterans Chronicles, a presentation of the American Veterans Center. For 533 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:49.880 more information, please visit American Veteranscenter dot org. You can also follow the 534 00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:55.360 American Veterans Center on Facebook and on Twitter. We're at AVC update. Subscribe 535 00:49:55.360 --> 00:50:00.400 to the American Veterans Center YouTube channel for full oral histories and special features, 536 00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:06.559 and of course, please subscribe to the Veterans Chronicles podcast wherever you get your 537 00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:12.079 podcasts. Thanks again for listening and please join us next time for Veterans Chronicles