WEBVTT 1 00:00:29.559 --> 00:00:34.719 Welcome back to the Pathway Chili. I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and I'm 2 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:40.920 Ashley. Let's dive right into this week's case. July fifth, two thousand, 3 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:46.119 Seabrook, New Hampshire. Curtis Peshan, a forty year old former police 4 00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:52.079 officer suffering from multiple sclerosis, is working the graveyard shift as a factory security 5 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:57.000 guard when his car suddenly catches fire. The fire department shows up to handle 6 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:02.520 the situation, but less than two hours after they leave, Curtis inexplicably vanishes 7 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:07.040 from the premises. Years later, a former factory worker allegedly brags about causing 8 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:12.519 Curtis's disappearance, and even though it is theorized that Curtis was killed after interrupting 9 00:01:12.519 --> 00:01:17.480 a theft, there is no evidence to arrest anyone, and no trace of 10 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:23.359 Curtis is ever found. After that, the path went chilly. So today 11 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:26.239 we're going to be covering a missing person's case which was featured in Unsolved Mysteries, 12 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:32.519 the two thousand disappearance of Curtis Pieshan. This is this tragic story of 13 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:36.439 a man who wanted nothing more than to become a police officer and was successfully 14 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:41.480 following his dream before his life was derailed by multiple sclerosis. Because of his 15 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:46.000 physical imitations, Curtis had to leave the police force and eventually got a job 16 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:49.280 as a security guard at a factory, But while he was in the midst 17 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.680 of working the graveyard shift one night, he vanished without a trace. The 18 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:59.439 circumstances of Curtis's disappearance are very strange, as his car inexplicably caught fire in 19 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:04.239 the middle of a shift a few hours before he went missing. Since Curtis's 20 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:08.080 multiple sclerosis caused him to struggle with depression, there was speculation that the car 21 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:12.719 fire may have been the breaking point which prompted him to go off somewhere and 22 00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:16.479 take his own life. However, as the years have gone by, investigators 23 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:21.319 are now leaning towards the theory that Curtis was the victim of foul play and 24 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:24.800 that one or more of his coworkers from the factory were responsible. As it 25 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:29.240 stands right now, it sounds like this is one of those cases where law 26 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:34.360 enforcement just lacks that one key piece of evidence to make an arrest, so 27 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:38.520 he just disappears. Right if he had completed suicide, don't you think eventually 28 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:44.120 his body would have been located. I mean this is back in two it's 29 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:47.680 twenty three years. We've seen cases where it takes decades for someone's body to 30 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:52.360 be located. But to me, he would have been discovered if he was 31 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:54.960 someone who had, because of his depression, gone off and ended his own 32 00:02:55.000 --> 00:03:00.280 life. Oh yeah, Like he didn't have a car, and he multiple 33 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:02.479 sclerosis, so where was he going to go? Like he couldnot walk a 34 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:07.639 very long distance, So it's kind of ridiculous that this theory was even considered 35 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:12.800 in the first place. And with multiple scrosis, yes, depression is something 36 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:16.159 that would be a natural consequence of being diagnosed with a disease that takes your 37 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:20.800 physical ability away from you. His dream was taken away from him, but 38 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:23.560 he was still working. That's a big deal. He had a purpose, 39 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:28.280 he was still providing for himself. I just, yeah, it seems kind 40 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:31.000 of erroneous to think, Okay, he's going to be taking his own life 41 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:36.080 because of his car caught on fire. Like, the guy's surviving and thriving 42 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:42.919 despite a diagnosis, So I just I don't see it. Our story begins 43 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:47.400 in two thousand and our central figure is forty year old Curtis Pashan, Curtis 44 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:52.599 grew up alongside two brothers and a sister, and their father, Nicholas Pischon, 45 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:57.599 worked as a military police investigator. Even though he originally hailed from New 46 00:03:57.639 --> 00:04:01.960 Hampshire, Nicholas's job at his family to move around a lot, so Curtis 47 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:06.120 was originally born in Columbus, Georgia, and he would graduate from high school 48 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:12.000 and attend university in Hawaii. However, ever, since childhood, the only 49 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:15.519 thing Curtis really wanted to do was work in law enforcement, so he would 50 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:19.399 quickly drop out of university and move to New Hampshire to pursue that career, 51 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:25.199 as his father had recently retired and the rest of the Pashon family had moved 52 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:29.439 back there. Since he was still too young to join the police academy, 53 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:33.480 he worked as an emergency dispatcher for two years before joining the army, where 54 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:38.959 he served as a military police officer in Korea. Following his return to the 55 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:43.319 US, Curtis finally achieved his dream when he was hired as a patrol officer 56 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:47.160 at the Concord Police Department in nineteen eighty four. He would enjoy a successful 57 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:53.959 career until nineteen ninety, when he was diagnosed with multiple tulerosis, a muscular 58 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:58.120 disorder which left him in frequent pain and made it difficult for him to walk. 59 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:01.519 The disease eventually press to the point that it would be impossible for Curtis 60 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:05.000 to fire his gun accurately, so he was forced to retire from the police 61 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:11.720 force in nineteen ninety four. According to Curtis's family, his personality completely changed 62 00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:16.040 as he became very withdrawn and depressed about a situation. While he collected a 63 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:20.600 police pension, Curtis had trouble securing and holding down a steady job, and 64 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:25.920 he seemed unsure about what to do with his life. He wound up moving 65 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:30.399 into the Highland Inn, a residential hotel in the town of Hampton, and 66 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:34.800 rarely spent much time socializing. Curtis had passed issues with drinking, which caused 67 00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:38.839 him to do a stint in rehab during his time with the police force, 68 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:44.040 but his condition would only cause his problems with alcohol to worsen. At one 69 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:46.319 point, he got a job as a security guard, but wound up getting 70 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.279 fired after showing up drunk for one of his shifts. Well, if you 71 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:55.680 think about the police culture in general, they're not all officers but there is 72 00:05:55.720 --> 00:06:00.600 a group of officers who handle stress with alcohol, right like any other human 73 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:02.040 being who says like I can handle it with working out, I can handle 74 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:05.079 it with alcohol, I can handle it with time with my family. So 75 00:06:05.720 --> 00:06:10.439 in that line of work, I don't think it would be highly crazy to 76 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:15.000 see a problem with alcohol be intensified. They have programs where if you come 77 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:16.680 forward and say I need help, they help you, which sounds like what 78 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:21.560 happened in this case with Curtis. He actually served time in a rehab and 79 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:27.240 went to rehab while he was still an active police officer. Then you take 80 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:31.720 away that dream of his and his body shutting down on him. I think 81 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:36.360 it's natural to think that depression and darkness would come to somebody when that diagnosis 82 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:41.600 first comes. It's scary, like how quickly am I going to lose my 83 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:45.600 ability to walk to pick up a cup of coffee? Right, It's a 84 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:51.399 very scary diagnosis. And so he struggles with alcoholism. But again you've already 85 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:58.160 told me he's working now when he goes and vanishes, and so he clearly 86 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.560 has the ability to follow pard and pick himself back up. And his family 87 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:05.319 seems to be, you know, involved as well, so I just I 88 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:09.759 don't know. I feel so bad for him because of the diagnosis itself and 89 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:13.399 the loss of his job. But I'm cheering for Curtis right now, and 90 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:16.319 I don't I do not think suicide is on the path for him. I 91 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:20.319 just think he struggles, and so I think it can make him more vulnerable 92 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:25.680 in certain situations. I feel so bad for Curtis. I really commend him 93 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:30.360 early on for seeking the help that he clearly needed at that point. But 94 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:34.680 for somebody who's struggling with substance use disorder or alcohol use disorder, it can 95 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:40.639 be really, really difficult, especially with a high stress job like being a 96 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:44.680 police officer. You see it with lots of doctors as well. When you're 97 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:48.680 dealing with life and death and you're a drenal system is just firing on all 98 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:54.120 cylinders all the time. It can lead to burnout and you can just feel 99 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:57.600 like the walls are closing in. And I think people will reach for something, 100 00:07:57.639 --> 00:08:00.920 and I think Ashley nailed it. Some people will reach for something which 101 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:05.199 can be like a healthy addiction, whether it be you know, running marathons 102 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:09.639 or cycling or going to the gym something like that to channel it. But 103 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:13.639 other people will reach for alcohol or drugs, or food, or gambling or 104 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:16.319 sex, and in Curtis's case, it was alcohol. And I think having 105 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:20.839 the rug ripped out from under him, to have that very thing that he 106 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.240 always dreamed of doing being a police officer taken away, that had to have 107 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:30.800 been soul crushing. So I can totally appreciate, and I can empathize with 108 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:35.600 the feeling of wanting to, you know, drink yourself into oblivion or take 109 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.840 a substance so that you don't feel that pain of no longer being able to 110 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.440 live your dream life. And it's just it's so so sad. But as 111 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:46.720 Ashley said, it sounds like he was able to pick himself back up. 112 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:50.879 So I don't think in this particular case, given what we know so far, 113 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:54.919 that it's the most likely scenario that, oh, his car was set 114 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:58.279 on fire. He'd had a problem with alcohol in the past, and maybe 115 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:03.200 he was drinking. It obviously set him off, and therefore he went off 116 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:07.799 and ended his own life. That just doesn't seem logical to me. Yeah. 117 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:09.519 By the end of nineteen ninety eight, Curtis was able to pull his 118 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:13.480 act together well enough that he was hired by the reliable Security Guard Agency, 119 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:18.480 and he was given a new job in Seabrook, a small town of approximately 120 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:24.120 eight thousand people located right next to the New Hampshire, Massachusetts border. Curtis 121 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:28.000 was assigned to work the graveyard shift at a factory for the Venture Corporation, 122 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:33.120 which manufactured plastic parts for automobiles, and the position only entailed limited mobility and 123 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:37.799 did not require him to carry a gun. He would work from nine to 124 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:41.080 thirty pm until five thirty am, and his scheduled shift for July fourth, 125 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:46.720 two thousand seemed like it was going to be less busy than usual. Under 126 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:50.240 normost circumstances, around one hundred employees would have been working inside the factory during 127 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.000 the graveyard shift, but since a number of people were celebrating the fourth of 128 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:58.480 July holiday, this was considered to be a shutdown week, so a skeleton 129 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:03.480 crew of a w twelve workers were there that night. They said that Curtis 130 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:05.639 appeared to be in good spirits when he arrived for a shift, and at 131 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:11.679 around midnight on July the fifth, the factory security supervisor checked in with Curtis 132 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:15.320 at the guard shack where he was stationed and said that everything seemed normal. 133 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:20.639 However, at one forty two am, Curtis contacted the local fire department and 134 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.279 told them his car was on fire. While he attempted to use a fire 135 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.840 extinguisher to put it out, he realized that the flames were too strong, 136 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:31.000 but when the fire department arrived, they managed to douse them. Since the 137 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:35.639 car was parked only eight feet away from the guard shack, the flames wound 138 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:39.600 up singing the walls, but Curtis claimed to have no idea how the fire 139 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:45.039 started. The department's deputy chief would later say that Curtis appeared to be unusually 140 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:48.120 stoic and calm about the whole situation, but in spite of the loss of 141 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:54.519 his vehicle, he would continue working his shift after they left. Well, 142 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.720 there are people like my husband, for example, when Krud hits the fan 143 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:01.679 and I'm panicking, and he's like, well, it is what it is, 144 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:05.440 ash like it's already done or it's ruined, so just let it be, 145 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:07.799 you know, like there's nothing we can do about it, or than 146 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:11.080 good as we have car insurance, you know, like our brand new truck. 147 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:13.600 We drove it home and two weeks later got head on collision, right 148 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:16.879 with an uninsured motorist and I'm freaking out and he just it is what it 149 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:20.960 is. It's okay, it's material stuff. So it's possible Curtis had that 150 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:24.279 same attitude, like, well, that sucks right, my car just went 151 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:28.440 up in flames, and it is what it is. I need the money 152 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:31.799 or this is my job, so I'm going to do this. It is 153 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:37.120 very bizarre how close the car was to the guard check, but it also 154 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:41.360 indicates that not only could Curtis have been responsible for starting the fire, but 155 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:45.799 that anybody else on the lot and in that vicinity could have been responsible as 156 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:50.399 well. Are there cameras at the time in this in this area, I 157 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:54.000 don't think so. Like I haven't heard anything about cameras being found at the 158 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:58.919 entire factory, because, as we're going to talk about, there are theories 159 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:03.240 that Curtis could have been ordered somewhere on the premises before his body was smuggled 160 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:05.480 out of there. But if that's what happened, it was obviously done in 161 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:09.399 a place without cameras. But nope, they still to this day don't know 162 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:13.840 how the fire started, if it was just a freak accident, or if 163 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:20.360 it was deliberately set. Is it legal to be an uninsured motorist? Sash, 164 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.679 No, but doesn't mean that everyone carries insurance. So these were I 165 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:28.879 think illegal kiddos that live around the corner. And yeah, they were just 166 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.519 driving. They were fourteen and fifteen, so that was super fun too. 167 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:37.399 So they were underage, no license, no identification, and no insurance. 168 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:43.000 Oh my god, what did the police do? Nothing? Nothing. It's 169 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:46.440 a big problem around here. So there's not really a whole lot of recourse 170 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:50.200 they have anyway, So you've got no legal recourse. Well, I guess 171 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:52.519 you could sue them, but yeah for what though, the poor babies don't 172 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:56.759 have it. Yeah, yeah, exactly, sue them for nothing and then 173 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:01.279 it's just a financial trade on everybody involved. Yeah, but you can publicly 174 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:05.919 shame them on this podcast. So that's how dumb kids. And like he 175 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:09.159 said, it was material and everyone was safe, so that's really all that 176 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:13.279 mattered. Easy for them to say because they're not out a brand new vehicle. 177 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:20.720 Yeah. The security supervisor stopped by to check in on Curtis again at 178 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:24.159 three twenty five am and notice the burned out vehicle, but he thought that 179 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:28.559 Curtis seemed to be all right, but sometime within the next twenty minutes, 180 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:33.039 Curtis would have vanish without a trace. At around three forty five, one 181 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:37.639 of the factory workers noticed that Curtis was not at his station, even though 182 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:43.120 his cigarettes, packed lunch glasses, and contact lunch solution were inside the guard 183 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:48.200 shack and his car was still parked nearby. Curtis himself was nowhere to be 184 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.639 found. By the time the security guard for the next shift arrived to relieve 185 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:56.639 Curtis at five point thirty, he still had not turned up. When a 186 00:13:56.679 --> 00:14:01.120 search of the factory failed to find him, the Seabrook Police apartartment were notified 187 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:05.159 and Curtis was officially reported missing. The police would perform their own search of 188 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:11.360 the factory on the surrounding area, but they also had no success. The 189 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:16.120 last entry in Curtis's log book was written at around two am, after the 190 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.919 fire department arrived at the scene. Other than the security supervisor, the last 191 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:24.120 people who could confirm seeing Curtis were a group of workers who'd been taking a 192 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:28.840 break at around three point fifteen and said they saw Curtis walking around the facility, 193 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:35.000 something he didn't do that often because of his MS. Sometime between three 194 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:39.240 point thirty and three forty five. A night shift foreman also recalled seeing two 195 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:43.679 vehicles speeding out of the factory's driveway, but he didn't get a clear enough 196 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:46.960 look to provide a description, and it was unclear if this had any connection 197 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:52.879 to Curtis's disappearance. Now, I don't find it odd that Curtis was walking 198 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:56.600 around the factory. I mean, especially if he's security and he's worried about 199 00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:01.240 something. Also, who knows if that's the only place rust located, like 200 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:03.080 a little guard check. I wonder if there was a restroom attached to it, 201 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.320 or if he would need to walk into the factory to go to the 202 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:11.320 restroom. But when you talk about him going missing, Curtis isn't going to 203 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:15.080 be getting very far. His car is burned out and in the parking lot, 204 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:20.480 and Curtis has a disease that limits his mobility, and he's already struggling 205 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:24.200 to the point where he can't grip his gun. You know, he's struggling 206 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:26.480 to walk. I mean, his coworkers say, we really didn't see him 207 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:30.360 walking around very much, so you know, he didn't just up and leave 208 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:33.279 on his own and take a hike, you know, going miles to try 209 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:37.679 to get somewhere. What if those coworkers are lying. What if they're the 210 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:39.600 ones that had something to do with his disappearance and they're just trying to be 211 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:41.919 like, oh, yeah, we saw him at this time, yep, 212 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:46.120 and he was walking around, Because it does seem a little bit suspicious that 213 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:50.519 he wasn't somebody that walked around very often, but yet he was seen doing 214 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:54.759 that just before he vanished. Yeah. It has never been specified if the 215 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:58.960 who these coworkers were, who who gave this account of seeing him walking by, 216 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:03.600 but it is possible it could have been an act of misdirection to mislead 217 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:07.360 the authorities. Well. When Investigator spoke to Curtis's family, they learned that 218 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:11.919 he expressed his concern to them about possible illegal activity, such as drug deals 219 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:17.840 taking place in the factory's parking lot. On previous occasions. He told them 220 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:21.759 he feared for his personal safety at his job, and a coworker apparently once 221 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:26.320 threatened to kill Curtis over a parking ticket he had written. Curtis had also 222 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:30.360 claimed that he felt threatened by some Hispanic workers at the factory because he was 223 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:34.559 interested in a Latina woman who worked there. Interestingly enough, nearly four hours 224 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:40.320 before Curtis went missing, a factory employee noticed two cars parked at the extramart 225 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:45.519 across the street. The vehicles contained some Hispanic individuals and they appeared to be 226 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.799 acting rowdy. Since the skeleton crew was working at the factory that night, 227 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:52.559 Curtis was concerned about the fact that he was not going to have any backup. 228 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:56.559 Sure enough, it turned out that a pair of bending machines and a 229 00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:03.120 change machine located near the cafeteria where vandalized during Curtis's final shift, and a 230 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:06.960 pad locked door to a union office which was normally used for storage, had 231 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:11.759 also been kicked in. Investigators weren able to determine who caused this damage or 232 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.119 I had had any relation to what happened to Curtis. Well, it's very 233 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:19.319 possible that he's up there while looking at something suspicious that's happening. He is 234 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:23.200 the security guard. He doesn't have any backup, so he notices these rowdy 235 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:27.440 individuals. He goes into the factory, maybe he sees the damage that's done, 236 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:32.240 and what if he ran into the people who were causing the vandalism or 237 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:37.519 who were up there causing havoc and confronts them and they get angry. It 238 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.519 sounds like Curtis is a rule follower and the people up there don't like it, 239 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:47.640 and so they kind of resent his position as the security officer. And 240 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:49.839 so I think there's a lot of scenarios that Curtis could have walked in on 241 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:56.119 something or intervened or done his job and made people so angry at him that 242 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:02.079 they wanted to eliminate his ability to say anything about their behavior. That definitely 243 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.400 would make a lot of sense to me. And theoretically, if a coworker 244 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:07.720 wanted to perform a theft that night, they're thinking themselves, well, it's 245 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:11.440 a small crew here, and the only guard on duty is someone with MSS 246 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:17.039 in limited mobility. This would be the perfect opportunity. And I'd imagine the 247 00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:19.279 frustration if, in spite of this, Curtis has still made an attempt to 248 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:26.400 stop them. According to Curtis's father and Nicholas Poushon, on July third, 249 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:30.000 the day before his final shift, Curtis purchased a nine millimeter gun from him 250 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.599 for two hundred dollars. The gun had originally belonged to Curtis, and he 251 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:38.440 had a legal permit to carry it, but due to financial difficulties, he 252 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:44.400 sold the weapon to his father years earlier. Given Curtis's history of depression, 253 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:48.880 it wasn't long before investigators started exploring the possibility that he bought the gun back 254 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:53.440 because he intended on taking his own life, and perhaps the mysterious car fire 255 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:57.160 was his breaking point. Well, there didn't seem to be any sign of 256 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:03.960 accelerant in or around curtis His vehicle, the insurance investigators concluded that arson had 257 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:07.440 likely taken place. Curtis had a habit of storing many of his favorite personal 258 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.480 possessions inside the vehicle, but most of them wound up being destroyed when the 259 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:17.440 fire took place. This led to speculation that the incident caused Curtis to suffer 260 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:21.519 some sort of mental breakdown, which prompted him to walk away from the factory 261 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:26.759 and shoot himself. However, this theory was discounted when Curtis's gun was located 262 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:30.079 inside his room at the Highland Inn, so he was definitely not carrying it 263 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:34.559 with him during his final shift. I think there's a lot of problems here. 264 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:38.079 First of all, remember Curtis said he was kind of afraid or kind 265 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:42.160 of worried about people's behavior towards him. So the fact that he asked for 266 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.200 his gun back or wanted to buy his gun back from his dad, I 267 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:49.920 think for safety purposes would make sense. He also is living with MS, 268 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:55.759 and he's living alone in a motel, so it may not be the safest 269 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.640 of areas. And when you think about someone with MS, there can be 270 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:03.279 days where you can't get out of bed, and there's days where your symptoms 271 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.640 aren't that severe. And so if he is struggling with days where paralysis and 272 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:12.079 inability to move quickly is really affecting him, and he's living in a kind 273 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:17.279 of risky hotel, I think he would want a weapon to say I may 274 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:18.720 not be able to fight them off like I have been trained to do, 275 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:22.200 but I could shoot somebody who came in here. So I think it makes 276 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:26.759 a lot of sense when you're talking about him trying to get protection for himself 277 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:30.240 either at home or at work. Again, he didn't have his gun that 278 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:34.160 night, and how far was Curtis going to walk off and shoot himself where 279 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:40.000 his body wouldn't be discovered. It just it doesn't make sense to think anything 280 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:44.039 about the gun possession. I don't think yeah, and that's what we're going 281 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:48.279 to talk about right now. Another issue with this suicide theory, so, 282 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:51.759 in spite of his struggles with MS, Curtis did not give off any signs 283 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:55.440 of being depressed or suicidal at the time he disappeared, as he had been 284 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:57.880 making plans to purchase a new car that week and was looking forward to a 285 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:03.519 family vacation that month. But no matter what Curtis's mental state might have been, 286 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:07.599 the biggest problem with the theory that he wandered away from the factory is 287 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:11.680 that his condition would have prevented him from walking very far. Even if he 288 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:15.200 had planned on hitchhiking out of the area, it still would have required him 289 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.079 to make a long walk from the guard shack to the nearest road. There 290 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:22.119 was no record of any deliveries made to the factory during Curtis's shift, or 291 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.440 any company trucks leaving the facility that he could have hitched a ride on. 292 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:30.960 No taxis were summoned to pick up anyone there that night, and since phone 293 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.160 records from Curtis's hotel room showed that the only calls he made prior to his 294 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:38.720 disappearance were to his mother, it seemed unlikely that he called anyone to arrange 295 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:42.920 a ride. Since Curtis was a smoker and his cigarettes were left behind in 296 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:48.079 the guard shack, his family believed that was strong enough evidence to show that 297 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:52.160 he did not leave of his own volition. Investigators did look into the coworker 298 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:56.920 from the factory whom Curtis claimed had threatened him, but it turned out he 299 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.720 had an alibi that night, and he denied that these threats took place. 300 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:06.519 Police also explored the possibility that Curtis's disappearance might have been related to his previous 301 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:11.200 career as a police officer. During his time with the Concord Police Department, 302 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.200 he mostly worked as a street officer who was not involved in violent crime investigations, 303 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:19.400 but he had also supposedly conducted affairs with the wives of at least two 304 00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:23.519 of his fellow officers. But in the end, no evidence was found to 305 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:27.200 suggest this that any relevance to what happened to him. There would be no 306 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:33.279 further activity on Curtis's bank accounts and social Security number, and his disappearance would 307 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:37.839 prove so baffling that it was featured on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries in October 308 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:41.039 of two thousand and one. Didn't you also say, in addition to the 309 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:45.640 cigarettes, there were things like his glasses and other possessions that were left in 310 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.759 the guard check that he would use on a daily basis. Oh yeah, 311 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.960 like his lunch was there, his glasses was there, and also his contact 312 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:57.720 lens solution. Yeah, okay, So for me, it's literally much more 313 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:02.279 logical to think not even that he got picked up by somebody, but that 314 00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:07.319 he was patrolling the area because he saw something suspicious or heard something suspicious. 315 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.160 He needed to go to the restroom, so he left his position in the 316 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:15.440 guard check, and he goes into the factory, encounters something or someone. 317 00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:19.799 Remember it is a skeleton crew that night. There's no backup, there's not 318 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:23.240 a whole lot of staff there, and so it would have been a good 319 00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:26.119 night for anyone who works there to say, hey, guys, I want 320 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.480 you to show up tonight and rob the place with me, or help me 321 00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.839 do this, or you know, we can take the guard down because he's 322 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:37.039 sick, you know, and he got in trouble doing his job. That 323 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:42.039 seems much more logical to me, or that he was targeted by somebody versus 324 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:47.240 him somehow wandering off. It is kind of weird to watch the Unsolved Mystery 325 00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:51.480 segment because it was filmed only about a year after he went missing, before 326 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:55.240 anyone became a suspect in this case, so there's a lot more ambiguity at 327 00:23:55.240 --> 00:24:00.359 that time about whether his disappearance could have been voluntary or is suicide. But 328 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.759 I do think that police did not do a thorough enough job during the early 329 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:07.319 stages of the investigation and focused way too much on that angle when the answer 330 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.400 to this case might have been right under their noses all along. I just 331 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:15.039 think if he was going to end his own life, wouldn't he go back 332 00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:21.880 to the inn which she resided and go and get his gun and then go 333 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:25.960 off somewhere to some desolate area, Like we're to believe that he had this 334 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:30.920 mental break, and yet somehow some of the wherewithal to what hitchhike. We 335 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:34.319 know that he couldn't walk, we know that he didn't have a vehicle, 336 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:40.640 So it just seems so unlikely and seemed so much more likely the scenario that 337 00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:42.880 Ashley just said that these guys, the skeleton crew, where there was only 338 00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:47.279 twelve of them, had set up this idea to rob the place, and 339 00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:52.680 somehow Curtis got in the way, and he paid for it with his life. 340 00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:56.920 In two thousand and eight, Curtis's family had him declared legally deceased, 341 00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:00.799 but a major development would take place in October of that year when a forty 342 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:06.599 year old man named Robert April the third was arrested. April had allegedly grabbed 343 00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:11.039 a seventeen year old kid named David Horvitz and threatened to kill his family because 344 00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:15.519 Horwitz's brother owed him thirty dollars. According to Horowitz, April stated, quote, 345 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.400 when I see your brother, boy, I'm going to slice his throat 346 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:22.559 and nobody will find his body, just like the missing person from Sebrook. 347 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.920 Yeah, that's right. I killed him, and your brother is next, 348 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.319 and nobody will find an ounce of blood. I buried him in my yard 349 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:33.720 and your brother's next. End quote. Well, April just happened to be 350 00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:38.559 a former employee with the Venture Corporation and was one of the skeleton crew working 351 00:25:38.599 --> 00:25:44.240 the graveyard shift at the factory on the night Curtis disappeared, so it seemed 352 00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:48.119 very likely that Curtis was the missing person April was referring to during his threats. 353 00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:52.559 Months later, April would go on trial and Hambiton District Court for the 354 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:57.279 charges of criminal threatening and simple assault, but the judge found him not guilty 355 00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:02.759 after David Horwitz were can did his original story on the witness stand, but 356 00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:06.960 it would turn out that Horwitz was far from the only person who had supposedly 357 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:11.920 heard April Bragg about his involvement in Curtis's disappearance. Around this time period, 358 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:18.079 the Pashon family would launch their Fine Kirt campaign, putting together a website about 359 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:22.440 his case at finecurt dot com and offering an anonymous telephone tip line. Well. 360 00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:26.359 At one point, they received a call from an anonymous person who claimed 361 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:32.680 they were told by two people that the alleged perpetrator had confessed about Curtis's murder 362 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:37.319 to them. Curtis had supposedly caught this person stealing at the factory, so 363 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.839 they responded by beating him to death. Curtis's body was then hidden inside the 364 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:45.319 union office before the perpetrator could smuggle it out of the factory, and the 365 00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:52.119 body was later dismembered before it was buried in the perpetrator's yard. Yep, 366 00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:56.400 I'll buy that. I mean, it seems very plausible that you have somebody, 367 00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:59.960 especially when you look at the idea that this man who is making threats 368 00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:04.799 to people and is saying he killed somebody, is actually working the shift with 369 00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:10.880 Curtis. We know that the factory was very low on staff members that night, 370 00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:15.559 there was no backup security, and Curtis was already a hated individual by 371 00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:18.279 some of the people who worked there because of his own behavior and because of 372 00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:22.480 the way that he executed his position that people didn't like being caught and punished 373 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:27.039 for what they did wrong. And so if there was a crime going on 374 00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:33.480 at the factory that night and Curtis caught them, I could easily see somebody 375 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.160 saying, my job, this money, whatever we're gaining from this crime is 376 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:41.920 more important than this man's life. I could easily see that being a plausible 377 00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:48.480 explanation. And it's very frustrating to think that April was there all along, 378 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:52.480 and during the first few years of the investigation, they're focusing on the idea 379 00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:56.160 that Curtis walked away somewhere and took his own life. And it would only 380 00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:00.279 be like years after the fact when people started coming forward and say saying, 381 00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:03.559 hey, you should look at the other employees who were working the graveyard ship 382 00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:07.240 that night. So it just seems so frustrating that we have this guy who 383 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:11.480 was there and nobody starts looking at him until two thousand and eight, which 384 00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:17.000 is eight years after Curtis originally went missing. In twenty ten, the authority 385 00:28:17.079 --> 00:28:22.400 spent two days excavating a cement slab behind a residence in Seabrook. The property 386 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:26.359 had once belonged to Robert April's brother, who died five years earlier, but 387 00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:29.680 even though the new owners gave permission for a search, it failed to turn 388 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:34.200 up anything around this time period. The investigation was headed by Seabrook Police Lieutenant 389 00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:38.799 Mike Gallagher, who publicly expressed his belief that the fir in Curtis's car was 390 00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:44.599 started by two factory workers in order to create a diversion while they attempted to 391 00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:48.480 use forkliffs to break into the two damaged vending machines and the change machine in 392 00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:52.160 order to steal money from them, but at some point Curtis caught them in 393 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:56.400 the act and was killed for it. While Gallagher believed that Curtis's death was 394 00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:00.559 likely an accident and the responsible part, he did not intend to kill him, 395 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:06.720 he also stated quote I think the community knows what happened. Everyone knows 396 00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:10.160 that we know the people who did it know that we know they did it. 397 00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:12.680 He's a local. I think he stays in his trailer, maybe on 398 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:18.839 a self imposed prison term, so maybe there's a little justice there end quote. 399 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:22.119 While Robert April is the primary person of interest, Gallagher confirmed that there 400 00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.079 was at least one other person of interest who was also working the same graveyard 401 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.960 shift at the factory that night, but their name has never been released publicly. 402 00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:34.599 However, Gallagher said the main reason an arrest has never been made is 403 00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:40.799 because the only evidence against the alleged perpetrator are quote unquote third person accounts, 404 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.519 and since most of the tips law enforcement and the Pischon family received have been 405 00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:49.640 anonymous, they cannot be used as evidence or probable cause to secure the necessary 406 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:55.440 warrants for a search or an arrest. Even though Curtis's body has never been 407 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.359 found, his family has still set up a memorial stone forum at the New 408 00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:03.720 Hampshire St. Veteran Cemetery in Boscowen. The Pichons have also offered a ten 409 00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:08.480 thousand dollars reward for information which leads to the recovery of Curtis's body and the 410 00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:12.960 arrest and conviction of the responsible party, but after nearly twenty four years, 411 00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:18.839 he continues to remain a missing person. So I guess you could say the 412 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:23.960 path went Chili and this pans out so perfectly with what evidence was found. 413 00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:29.000 There was evidence that there had been venning machines that were destroyed. There was 414 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.599 other damage to the property, and they knew that that had occurred that evening. 415 00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:37.400 I believe the fire being set to distract Curtis. What a genius idea. 416 00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:41.960 He needs to sit there and wait for fire the fire department to come. 417 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:44.400 He's got to assess the damage to his own vehicle, and then he 418 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:48.599 gets back on his post. Was he distracted in that moment and then goes 419 00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:53.440 in back into the factory again to go to the restroom or maybe because he 420 00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:59.480 hears something or feels something might be wrong inside the factory and he runs into 421 00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:03.880 these in a us committing a crime. My only concern is that if they 422 00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.680 truly beat him to the point where they either accidentally or intentionally killed him, 423 00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:14.640 and then they're storing his body in the union room, right, wouldn't there 424 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:18.720 be physical evidence everywhere? Wouldn't there be blood to the extent that they had 425 00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:22.599 beat him to death. I'm guessing maybe that they had the opportunity if there 426 00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:26.079 was blood, to clean him up, because you remember that quote that April 427 00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:30.319 said when he was threatening David Horbitz, saying that I killed him and your 428 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:34.319 brother's next, and nobody will find an ounce of blood. So that couldn't 429 00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:38.319 lie that he did such a thorough cleanup job. Because there was a skeleton 430 00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:42.160 crew there, he might have had some privacy that they never did find anything. 431 00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:47.720 But it's also possible that it was missed during the original search because at 432 00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:49.839 that point they weren't looking at the possibility of a homicide. They were just 433 00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:55.559 looking at a missing person. If April is indeed the perpetrator, he's a 434 00:31:55.640 --> 00:32:00.359 huge idiot who threatens somebody's life by talking about a past crime that they did 435 00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:06.039 and then telling them where they buried the body, especially when it's in their 436 00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:09.279 own backyard. I do have a feeling that he wasn't actually buried in his 437 00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:15.039 own backyard, because they never actually said that. I like him. They 438 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:19.920 did do a search behind the property belonging to Robert April's brother, but it's 439 00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:23.359 not clear to me if they've ever searched any property belonging to April himself, 440 00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:28.279 but that maybe because they just don't have a search warrant. But who knows. 441 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:31.039 Maybe he was just like being braggadocious and it's not actually true, and 442 00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:36.240 he disposed of Curtis at another location. What was the guy's name in the 443 00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:40.359 Christian smart case who literally did that exact same thing, Paul Flores. And 444 00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:45.000 that's a creepy one because I remember that new people moved on to the property 445 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:49.160 after Paul moved out, and they thought they heard a beeping every morning at 446 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:52.279 like three thirty am. And they've suspected that that was the that was Christian's 447 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:55.400 watch, because she always had a watch that had an alarm go off at 448 00:32:55.400 --> 00:33:00.119 that particular time. But there has been speculation that they did the body because 449 00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:04.680 she's still never been found. So I think this would be a good time 450 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.400 to bring an end to part one. But join us next week as we 451 00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:12.680 present part two of our series about the disappearance of Curtis Bishan Robin, do 452 00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:15.240 you want to tell us a little bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon. 453 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.160 Yes, the Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three years now, and 454 00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:23.400 we offer these standard bonus features like early ad free episodes, and I also 455 00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:28.839 send out stickers and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up with us 456 00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:32.200 on Patreon. If you join our five dollars tier Tier two, we also 457 00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:37.400 offer monthly bonus episodes in which I talk about cases which are not featured on 458 00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:42.440 the Trail went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon and if you 459 00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:45.319 join our highest tier tier three, the ten dollars tier. 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So until next time, 477 00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:59.000 be sure to bundle up because cold trails and chili pass call for warm 478 00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:01.760 clothing. Music Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy