What is krak lacing, fellow thermonuclear a effs. I am dan fa Valley
coming at you without my certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes. I
am, however, super pleased and excited and grateful to be joined by the
one, the only. Ryan Blackburn covers the Denver Nuggets for Mile High Sports.
He also is the host of the Alley Oop podcast that covers the entire
NBA and speaks with guests for every team. Very digestible, very consumable.
I am on it, though, so take that with a grain of salt.
Follow the Alley Oop pod At Alley Oop Pod spelled exactly as it sound,
and make sure you follow Ryan at NBA. Blackburn also spelled exactly as
it sounds. Man, that was easy. This was I've been on the
Value Pot a few times now. Ryan and I went on I think Pick
Act and Roll a couple of times as well too. I've never had you
on this podcast, so this is long overdue. I'm excited to talk to
Denver Nuggets with you. That's why we're here. That's a team that you
know. I was going through it because I fucked up our schedule and recorded
a boat. I published an episode over the weekend I had held for this
week, and I'm a psycho that believes in the same week we need three
episodes. I was going through teams that I wanted to tackle. I felt
we neglected the Hornets, the Nets. No one fucking cares about those teams.
We've been neglecting the Nuggets though, because Grant and I we talk about
them. We're just like, well, they are title pick and we're just
gonna move on. It's like we're not worried about them. It's time to
dig deeper into the Nuggets. Though they are the ranting champs, they are
very good. First and foremost, though, how the heck are you?
Man? I'm doing good. Thanks for Frank for an awesome intro. Always
happy to have you on the Alley you and on Pickacs and really appreciate you
you having me on this show first time, man, first time for everything.
And I always love listening to this show. Is that you guys do
have such a great job of hitting such a wide range of topics, and
you and you and Grant do an excellent job. Well, thank I'm gonna
blush here. Thank you so much. Ryan. Yeah, I cannot wait
to potentially get you in some trouble because Nuggets fans were heading in the All
Star Break, they were not happy with you, happy at all. I
have a feeling the tenor of this podcast is gonna be a lot more optimistic,
though I did want to start before getting into why they're mad at you.
Did I guess we actually know now that I was gonna ask you,
did they have this stretch coming out of the All Star Break circled on their
calendar? And it seems like the answer is, well, duh, yes,
because Nicole Jokic sent a text message, you tweeted out the video that
Contavious Carlo Pope had said. Niccol Jokic sent out the text message and heading
out of the All Star Breaker coming out of the All Star Break, and
that's when kcp knew that, oh this is legit and so this is this
like and you also posted something about Michael Malone. Really seems like they want
to beat the Kings on Wednesday Night, who they've lost too three times this
season? Yeah, three times? Then we're we're times for all of them.
They've been on the second end of back to back on a couple of
those occasions. But then and then the the other one was heading into the
All Star Break on the final game before the All Star breaks, so not
necessarily the greatest indication of just how they match up with the Kings. But
Michael Malone, former coach of the Sacramento Kings, where he was unceremoniously fired
in his second season while Tamarcus Cousins was dealing with was it laryngitis or something
like that, Like I have no idea wild times wild you think Sacramento regrets
that. I think they might. I think they might have surely fired him,
like twenty five games later or something. So it's like kind of that
thing where toe like, well, imagine if the Knicks had drafted Steph Curry
and it's like the Knicks would have traded Steph Curry for Mellow or something like
before Steph Curry was Steph Curry. So it doesn't even matter. Yeah,
no, I'm with you there. But this stretch was interesting, And so
I was actually the guy who asked KCP about that text or about just what
Jokic has done over the course of this post All Star Breaks stretch and just
where he has been so different, and he sent out a text message to
the entire team after the All Star Game and was basically he didn't like caseyp
didn't share the exact specifics, but apparently hyped up the entire Nuggets media are
the the Nuggets Chat, they're their their own personal uh phone chats. So
should be interesting to see what Denver does from here. But they're three and
oh out of the All Star break. Yoka just putting up crazy numbers,
historic numbers that we've never seen before, and it just right, that's just
nikola Joka's default. Yeah, this is this is a Tuesday for Nikolik.
Yeah, it's just what he does. But uh, it is interesting like
when when he really turns it on and when he's really locked in, I
think it gives the team energy and it gives them a lot of beliefs.
So nice to see it out of the All Star break and they're clearly rolling
right now. Is there anything specific and that you view as oh, we
need to watch this in these three games that we've seen so far before they
head into that matchup with the Kings, which is when this podcast will go
live, that you're kind of just like, oh, this might be real,
or this is really interesting, or this this matters. Is it just
Nay is alive and he's playing. It's funny, man, Like, I
think one thing that's gone under the radar for people about why Denver's kind of
gone under the radar themselves. They have been a horrible transition offense, horrible,
just like one of the worst in the NBA, and coming out of
the All Star break, that was one of the things that they talked about,
just saying, hey, we need to be more detail oriented, we
need to understand what made us a great championship team. And they've they've been
great out in transition. Over the course of these past few games, they've
put the pedal to the medal against Washington, against Portland and then it gets
Golden State on the road, some really really impressive wins. Not necessarily all
impressive teams, but Denver has put more detail oriented work into these three games
and it's it's helped them tremendously, especially with their starting units. So but
it's nice and hey, Zekenagi is alive. Man. That's one that we
can circle back to and say, Man, I thought he was thought he
was a Gonner, but he's rising like the undertaker. Men. Yeah,
that's I mean him just he's been great. Opponents are shooting under fifty nine
percent against him at the rim since he started entering the or re entered the
rotation, or first entered the rotation, whatever you want to call it.
This team. Also what's also kind of flown under the radar about them is
we're officially at a point their defense statistically has outperformed their offense so far,
their ninth in points allowed for possession, for cleaning the glass, tenth in
offensive efficiency, which is just absolutely wild. And this is a team.
And you mentioned the Warriors victory specifically. You know, if you're gonna beat
up on Portland, whatever, it's Portland. But the win against the Warriors
specifically was almost this harbinger of how far the Nuggets have come because of all
the answers they now have defensively, and I think, and we'll get into
more of Jokic probably like towards the tail end of this podcast, but you
look at all the options they have. I know, Denver's not considered a
super athletic team, but to have Aaron Gordon, to have KCP chasing around
these guys, now, how Peyton Watson in the equation and then Nikole Yokic
just talked about how he thinks his defensive IQ is improved, and it has,
and it's like it's not just we always talked about that became the cliche.
Look at what the Nuggets. Look at what yok can do when he's
playing up high. Look at what Yokis can do now when he's playing and
drop, and it's just like, no, he's still not the greatest rim
protector, but he's busting up plays. He's in the right spot. It
feels like more than ever, i'd actually listen to the dunker spot and nakay
Is duncan at numbers on what the Nuggets were giving up when Nikole Yokic is
in a drop. It's like point nine to two points per possession. I
hope I got that number right, but shout out in the Kayas for having
access to that info. This team is just like It's why I couldn't bring
myself to one be concerned about them, mostly because I got concerned last year
when they went through like their March April malays and they just like they remained
my title pick, but they just annihilated everyone in the playoffs. But it's
like they they feel more complete then maybe not because last year's team was complete,
but like they might just be. This is they've been more complete the
past two seasons than I think they've actually received credit for, is what I'm
getting out. When you look at the entire package. There's holes you mentioned
kind of you know, the transition stuff. They're not a team that necessarily
wants to play super fast sure anyway, So I'm just I don't know where
you sort of land on that, Like the entire Nuggets product, there are
still questions. But when it really coalaces, this is one of the like
what is the team that is more complete when you look at their like top
end outcome right now, is it might be Boston, And I struggled to
come up with any other challengers. And then when you look at Boston,
like there are still those questions that they're gonna have late game where some of
the functional stuff that they do throughout the first forty three forty four minutes of
the game, you just don't know if that's going to happen again in the
final four minutes. So that's say it's a fair understandable points and a fair
criticism of them. But with Denver, they they know what happens when they
turn it on. One of the indicators for Denver over the past couple of
years has been their clutch defense, and it was even more of an indicator
last year, where man, they were their kind of subpar to average for
much of the year in their defensive rating, but during the actual clutch minutes
and when they are really trying hard, when they're really focusing, they locked
in and we're one of the best clutch defenses in the NBA this year.
Teams like and people aren't as as taken surprise by Denver being a good defensive
team, but they're bringing that more into the rest of the game. There
stretches throughout the rest of the game where they are more complete as a defensive
unit. I think their bench defense is better than it was last year,
and having Peyton Watson and Christian Brown kind of spearheading that off the bench,
that was a big deal. And Denver's got a bunch of different guys that
can to your earlier points about the Warriors and Steph Curry sort of switch around
do different things. They've been playing a bunch of different schemes and they've got
a lot of high IQ defenders on their roster that know what they're doing.
Like even somebody like a Jamal Murray or Michael Porter junior, guys who are
I think considered liabilities within their actual defensive schemes, they're fine. Like if
very worst defensive player is Jamal Murray or Michael Porter junior, then like this
is the Michael Porter. That's actually like a if those are your worst guys,
you're doing pretty well. And Denver, like, like you said,
ninth in defensive rating on the season in the clutch this year, there once
again I think the best clutch defense in the NBA are close to it.
And that's just it. It's not something that other teams can replicate. Man
Like they have a different gear that they can go to, and it's their
question. Stuff is held up to when you sort of I like to look
at like the final two minutes of one possession games rather than just like the
plus or minus five, they're absolutely just like killing people. I think there's
like two teams that have a higher winning percentage in those situations. So they're
not always gonna win easy, but they're gonna win and they're just gonna rack
up wins. The macro stuff though, and this one I think is we
still haven't seen a lot of talk about it in Denver circles for sure,
but nationally, how concerning is the management of Jamal Murray's shin splints, even
knowing that from here on Denver only has those I think two back to backs
remaining. Yeah, so, playing three games out of the All Star break
before the All Star Break, he was sitting due to those shin splints.
Out of the All Star break, he played the first game, sat the
second night of a back to back, and then came back against Golden State.
First game, he looked pretty good, but looked fine. When he
came back against Golden State, he looked slow. He looked like just like
he was managing pain in that game and ultimately played a great one, ultimately
was very good in that one, and then kind of rose above the pain,
I think. But it's those moments where like you can totally see him
sort of being uncomfortable and not being a little bit more tentative and not necessarily
putting pedal to the metal. I'm a little bit concerned about that personally,
because you need Jamal Murray to be a tiptop shape in order to win a
title. That's just that's gonna have to happen, and with the West the
way that it is this year, you need him to be able to create
as much space as possible against some of the perimeter defenders that he's gonna have
to face, like a Jada McDaniels or a Lou Dort or guys of that
nature. At the top of the West were hell Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.
If you're facing the Clippers, there's a lot of matchups that you're gonna
have to work really really hard against to create space and be athletic and be
dynamic, And like, that's gonna be one of those things that I'm watching
for sure. Like I love Jamal, I think he's great. I think
he's He's one of those guys that is a gamer that will rise to that
moments and in the playoffs he might just rise above that pain too. But
you just never want a guy to have to go into a playoff series with
pain, So hopefully they can manage him a little bit better and then get
him to be without that. Just heading into April and Matt, where do
you land overall on Jamal Murray, who I think is kind of a sneakly
divisive player. There's definitely the default of, well, look at what he's
done in the postseason, and you can't, like, you just can't argue
against what like the moments he's had in the postseason. He's had higher highs
than a Joel Embiid than a James Hard And I'm not talking about just winning
a title, but just like his individual performances in general, and then yet
he goes through these peaks and plunges in the regular season and even the playoffs.
I think people kind of forgot that about last postseason because the Nuggets were
able to kind of not I guess not steam roll, but they kind of
ambled their way through the West playoff pracket, Like Jamal Murray was kind of
up and down to start that. But you just look at all he does,
the tough shot make shot making, the defensive switch that he has,
like he just gritty as fuck sometimes on defense. He just he has that
switch. And if, like you said, if you consider him your worst
defender, I still might consider Michael Porter junior. But because he has the
size, because of the stuff he could do as the low man, Jamal
Murray is just like the smallest guy in that lineup, so the starting fives
you default to him, what is just like? But then you look at
the other thing. You look at the lineup data without Nikola Jokic when he
plays worse than ever, they're like minus seventeen points per one hundred possessions.
And it's not I mean, he's trying to carry some pretty sparse lineups.
But where do you just in the context of just the star horror hierarchy in
the NBA. I've been asked about whether Jamal Murray can be a top ten
player. This was after the finals and then now it's always a different direction
where it's like, is Jamal Murray the product of just having Nikola Jokic around?
The answer, of course will lie somewhere in between. But I'm just
very curious to someone who has covered him so intimately over the years, where
you sort of and on him as a player, because I do think the
discussion around him is like kind of complicated. He is perhaps the most divisive
player on the Nuggets, for sure. Lots of people would love for him
to be able to sustain his greatness and sustain his incredible play without Jokichen,
to be able to carry those other lineups, those different units that have clearly
been a problem for Denver over the course of that frankly Jokic's entire career,
where you get into these moments where yeah, Jokichen and the Nuggets have they've
built it, believe they're plus seven, they're plus ten, whatever, and
then that lead is automatically gone when Yokic comes back in, and that's never
fun. Murray is one of those guys that in the playoffs, Denver found
a lineup last year with him leading it with Aaron Gordon as the five,
where he was able to be that leader, where he was able to be
that primary ball handler, the decision maker, creating crazy shots and making them
at a high level. He was doing that on a consistent basis at that
point. I don't think that translates to the regular season, if I'm being
honest, because he up here, like in the mental he is somebody that
he needs it to have some steaks, and I think he, more than
anybody on the Nuggets this year, has sort of taken that lase a fair
approach to the regular season and said I'll be ready for the playoffs. I'll
be ready when I'm needed. Because he's not really needed right now, despite
the fact that Denver is currently a three seed and not a one seed,
so it's hard to evaluate, Like he's not going to be a guy that
carries them as a true second star to Jokic, Like that's just not what
his role is going to be. And yet his skill set and his kind
of the way that he plays augments what Denver does to the point where they
are unbeatable when you have Jokic and him, And what he is is not
quite an all star in a traditional sense, but it might be more valuable
than that in a playoff sense. Nobody really knows how to folly you valuated
man, Like it's it's wild here because he goes through these highs and lows
during the regular season, but you know what he can do in a playoff
context. No matter what, it makes you feel better that you're at least
somewhat torn as someone who's like actually seen more. If it makes me feel
better about not having like a definitive opinion now, I'm like, yeah,
I don't. I wouldn't call him a top ten player or anything like that
if I were to put a number on it, and I did in the
offseason, I would say that he is in the sixteen to twenty range,
and like you can say, yeah, there are players in that top fifteen
that you guarantee like regular season, playoffs, whatever, like you're probably gonna
have him them over him. But some of those guys pretty consistently don't perform
that well in the playoffs either. And then you have somebody like a Jamal
who's probably like the thirtieth to thirty fifth best regular season player and like the
tenth ord or eleventh best playoff player, Like how do you balance that?
How anybody balance it's? I think that's a good way to frame it.
I don't know where I rank him specifically, but he's clearly out side the
all NBA tier when you look at the regular season. But if we had
all postseason teams and let's just say you cut it down to ten players,
like too all postseason teams, he probably would have made two of those teams.
He might be on it. And he does it over and over and
over again, like even when he was twenty one years old in his first
playoff run, he's not playing Damian Lillard man, Like what was that in
that Spurs series where it's like he literally cost them a game, but also
won them two. Ka Walburray's one hell of a roller coaster ride, wild
man, but it's a fun ride. And then what what he does for
this Nuggets team, Like when when he is at his best, they truly
are unbeatable. That is the level that you can put them out. Like
if he is somebody that can rise to that level and kind of join Yokich
on the pedestal at the top, then he is going to be somebody that
makes Denver an unbeatable force. There's nobody, there's no other team that can
really match up with them when he is at that level. You've seen it
in a couple of times this year where he is facing the Boston Celtics on
national TV and like Jamal, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, Derek White,
Drew Holliday, it didn't matter who was in front of him, he still
put up thirty five. And then in this last game against Golden State,
this was a big matchup for Golden State and Jamal rises to the occasion and
scores sixteen in the second quarter alone. So like, it's just you don't
know how to evaluate it. Man, it's crazy. I will say one
thing he does is those tough jumpers, And I would argue that the pull
up three pointer may arguably be like the most important or salient shot in basketball.
Right now, you have someone who's just gonna consistently hit those, and
this year he's at forty two point three percent on off the dribble threes,
and they're being the highest on volume. Like he's he's been really really great
at that, and like, I don't know how many other players in the
NBA can match the volume inefficiency for him. Oh, I'll tell you right
now. There are fifty three players who've attempted at least one hundred pull up
three pointers. Only Duncan Robinson, who's gonna have most of those be assisted.
Mike Conley because he's just a fucking stud. My God, and c
are the only players who are hitting there is at a higher clip while meeting
that benchmark. So wild, Jamal Murray, Good, there's the definitive conclusion.
Dude mentioned Aaron Gordon quickly before they have upped. I guess maybe they
haven't if you depend like how you viewed it last year when he was playing
with Jeff Green, But they've increased. To me, the Aaron Gordon at
the five arrangements. Those are destroying teams. Right now, we're up to
almost three hundred posessions on the season, which per Cream the Glass is way
more than he logged between the playoffs and regular season last year. Again,
the Jeff Green numbers kind of fudge that. Have you noticed anything specifically about
those lineups that are really clicking this year versus last? And I will point
out, like the offense has been pretty good in those stretches and when you
look at the defense, they're not even getting like there's some opponent shooting noise,
but it's not a lot, and so like they're not those those differentials,
I think they're like a plus thirteen plus points per one hundred possessions when
Gordon is your five. They're not getting lucky in those stretches. They're actually
just winning them flat out. And look, those are important because Jokic is
not on the floor. And any stretch that you can win with Yokic not
on the floor, whether it's a few more minutes here he's playing, you
know, thirty four minutes during the regular season, even when he's playing forty
minutes in the playoffs, if you can just get by for a few minutes
without him, it's huge, and so I'm just curious if you've noticed anything
different or what's made those units so or some of those units so effective.
So here is the key to non Nikola Jokic minutes. You need somebody to
be able to reprise what Nikola Jokic does, and there's one player on the
roster that can do that at a reasonable level, and it's Aaron Gordon.
Despite the fact that he's six' seven six' eight, he's more of
a power forward than he is a center, obviously, but when you slide
him over to the five, he's a big body, he's versatile, he
can do a bunch of different things. But it's the underrated improvements that he
has made to his game and his understanding of what needs to happen when he's
on the floor. He is a great passer. He's a great passer at
his position who doesn't obviously get to show it that much because he's mostly finishing
plays when he's with Jokich and when he's with Murray, but more often than
not, when he is at the five, he's serving as that fulkrum of
everything that they do, and the offense is generally pretty good when you run
him with Murray specifically, but even if you're just running him with like Reggie
Jackson and CACP and Michael Porter and guys like that, He's creating good shots
from the post, from the top of the key in transition, especially like
he's a guy who loves to push the ball in transition and generates good shots
that way. He is a great shot generator that is hiding in plain sight
in Denver's offense because of what his role is for Jokic, and I think
that's just a fascinating aspect for Denver. They did not like I didn't know
what to expect when Aaron was going to be traded to the Nuggets. I
thought it would be great. I thought it would be a great fit,
but I thought it would be more narrow than what he's done. But he
is, like he fills so many roles man, He's a great jack of
all trades in a lot of different categories. But his ability to scale up
in those none Yokich menis is what I think is really really helping them.
And that's like they were those lineups are huge during the postseason, and now
that they feel more of like a a staple that just feels like it can
unlock a different sort of level for the Nuggets this playoffs, and that could
be really important just because their path out of the West this year, I
imagine, is going to be a lot harder than it was last season when
you just look at the level of teams where it's wolf the Clippers are healthy,
and know the Nuggets really don't care about the Clippers, which is fair.
But if the Suns are healthy, there's the Timberwolves in the thunder are
rising, and there's another team like I don't really know how to feel about
the Kings, the Lakers, and the Warriors, but if one of those
three teams catches lightning in a bottle, the Mavericks just with Luca, So
the path out of West feels harder. And to have just these different,
like alternative units that you can fall back on, even for a few minutes
at times that Jokic can catch a breather, or even just playing opponents to
a net even without him, that kind of up being like mission critical beyond
mission critical. Yeah, it's no doubt, man, like you need different
looks in a playoffs because how many minutes can you realistically just play your starting
unit. It's not gonna happen that much. Like Jokicic can play forty minutes
at a reasonable level, asking him to play forty two, forty five,
forty eight is probably incorrect, and like he can do it. He's proven
that he can play sixty five in a playoffs iron Man and has incredible stamina.
It's true, Like then it's it's important to like just sort of understand
who he is as a player too, but even still, like you want
everybody operating a peak physical condition and with peak circumstances so you can maximize your
your wins, you can maximize your plus minus in those moments, and like
be as good as you can be at at an individual level. And Aaron
finding opportunities for him to be that playmaker, I think is really really important
for Denver because he's also just gonna switch on to everybody. He's like,
there aren't that many better switch defenders in the NBA than Aaron Gordon because he's
had so much experience switching out of guards and guard guards back when he was
first brought on for Denver. But now he's like guarding centers and he's guarding
forwards and he's guarding wings like he does all of these different things for Denver
specifically. Oh and he's a great rebounder. Oh and he's a great passer.
Oh and he's driving to the rim and just barreling into people and drawing
contact and getting to the free throw line. He's a great player. Man,
just kind of hiding in plainsight and what is a crazy Western conference.
But you need those versatile athletes in order to match up with what is a
crazy West because all those different matchups that you talked about, whether it's the
Warriors or the Lakers or the Kings or whoever, like, you need a
player like Aaron Gordon to kind of kind of flexibly match what he needs to
do in those cases. You know what you're gonna get from Yoki, you
know you're gonna get from Murray. Now you know what you're gonna get from
Gordon is just what the team needs. It's not any one particular thing,
It's just what they need. This is an Aaron Gordon related question, but
I'm gonna use it as a launching pad for a KCP some appreciation talk.
Who is the third most important player on the Nuggets? And I do think
it's often framed as Michael Porter Junior or Aaron Gordon, but I do believe
the answer might be Aaron Gordon. I'm curious to know what your answer is.
But when you look at the defense of difficulty that CACP has, where
it's yes, Aaron Gordon is clearly their most versatile defender. But if you
look at who's probably gonna defend the other team's best player on most nights or
just the highest usage player, it's going to be KCP. And he does
that job. He's I think been crucial to They've done a really nice job
limiting opponent three point volume, which I think that can be impacted way more
by the defense than actual three point efficiency, where a lot of fans are
like, yeah, well we have the best three point defense in the league.
It's like, all right, let's chill. So where that first part
of that question, Who is the Nuggets's third most important player to you?
It's a rotating cast because sometimes it will be Michael Porter because of what he
can provide as an extra element to what the the Jokich Mark two man game
is. And like when you have a guy who can rebound to be in
an interior presence that that certainly helps to but Aaron, I think is really
the most like he's the third most important guy on most nights, just because
of how Denver likes to structure their lineups and their rotations where and even their
play calls where Gordon is playing with Yokich and Murray more than the other two.
He's playing with them in a horn setup. He's balancing out between different
actions when they're on the elbow, when they when he's in the short corner.
Yokic is always looking for him first on the the rotations rather than the
perimeter, and like he he does really kind of fold into that really nicely,
Like when you when you talk about three man combos, what those guys
run between Yokich, Murray and Gordon is some of the most dynamic stuff top
to bottom in the entire NBA. But it's not to take away from KCP,
who plays an integral role with what Denver does, Like you can't just
replace him with a Christian Brown and it be okay. You can't just replaim
with a Peyton Watson or Reggie Jackson or Julian Strawther and it be okay.
What KCP does on both ends of the floor is so important for Denver in
providing and becoming the best starting unit in the NBA. Like it's there's levels
to kind of how to evaluate Denver, right, Like you've got Jokic,
and you've got the Yokich Murray two man game, and then you've got the
Jokich Murray Gordon three man kind of weave that they run. But that stuff
doesn't work as well unless kcp's out there spacing and guarding and he takes a
lot of pressure off of those guys on both ends of the floor as a
result. So I'm with you, like, there it can be different players,
It really can be. And I think that CACP he like they call
him first team when when you're you're looking at all the post game videos where
he's getting the defensive player the game chain from Denver, Like he is a
guy who takes a lot of pride in his defense. That's a goal that
he's had for this year and Denver isn't the level of defense that they are
unless out there. Yeah, and I mean Gordon, I think is the
right answer, especially post Bruce Brown, because of Gordon's rim pressure and the
playmaking that he brings, like that feels like it feels like a Bruce Brown
was still on the team, that the conversation could maybe swing more towards MPG
and KCP on a lot of nights than it does right now. So I
do think that's the right answer. But I think KCP is probably gonna make
one of my all defense teams this year. I haven't gone I'm about to
go through it for a podcast, but I haven't gone like nitty gritty.
I just the consistency he brings and the matchup difficulty. I mean, there's
only eight players who are guarding the highest hutage player on the other team more
often than KCP right now, and that's just that's a really tough job.
And this isn't necessarily part of the question. We've been injured like eighty times
this year. Feels like it's always something different. He's dealing with a finger
injury right now, and so I where he goes championships follow unless it's Detroit
or Washington, obviously, But I he is such a winning player and his
impact on this team, it's I just wanted to show him a little bit
of love because I think that there are and the stuff he does on offense,
I think is important where it's like someone who will get up threes on
a team that's not shooting a ton of them relative to the to the league
average, and some of the stuff he can do like just from the in
between and off the ball. Of course, he's just he's universally scalable and
universally impactful, and it's he is they need him to be, Like,
Okay, can we not have him be dealing with like eight different injuries at
once once we get to the postseason, because that would be that would be
like huge for their playoff stock as well. It's true, like this Nuggets
team is not going to win a championship unless they're fully healthy. Like That's
that I think is probably the key factor here. Like as much as much
credit as you give Jokic, as much credit as you give Murray, it
is all of the elements playing together that gives them their edge, that gives
them the final juice that they need to get over the top against most of
these teams, like and other teams might beat them like that that might be
the case, but Casey he is one of those guys. He's one of
those examples that like he's had series where he shot forty five to fifty percent
from three, like between the Lakers and the Nuggets that have won series for
teams like he is that he could be a difference maker of that regard.
He could be the guy who guards the opposing team's best player on a consistent
basis. And he helped sort of shut the water off for Devin Booker in
Games five and six in the Western Conference semifinals, and like he's a guy
who can switch on to Jimmy Butler or like whether it's Lebron or not.
Not really a d but like he could do a lot. He spent most
of his time on Anthony Edwards in the the first round series, and he'll
have to do the same thing in this next series as well. I'm sure
that those teams will match up. So it's gonna be fascinating. Man,
Like this team and like all of the construction around the starting unit or starting
with Yokichen Murray but then building onto Gordon and Porter and KCP, like it
is all almost like a house of cards in a way, and it's why
I have some concerns obviously that that I think have been well documented. But
it's one of those things where KCP plays such a massive part in that people
don't fully understand or appreciate it, Like it's not just like he is not
a replaceable player, and people should make sure to remember that. Speaking you
mentioned forty five percent from three, I'm a serious question that's going to come
off as probably a comical one. Why is Michael Porter Junior the most unpredictable
forty six point nine percent shooter on wide open treason in the NBA history?
NBA history? Excuse me, it's funny, man, that's a you would
think that as often as he makes those shots and as like automatic as he
usually looks making those shots, that there are times in the third and fourth
quarter and when it kind of comes down to it where you're like, man,
got that wide open shot that swung right the porter and it just bricks.
Like sometimes it just happens, and like, I don't I don't really
know fully how to explain it. But he has moments where he is clutch,
there's no doubt about it. But there are also ones where you're like,
man, that's the one within the rhythm of the tea that you're like,
Okay, this is one that you gotta hit, and he just bricks
it. So it's I don't know, like it is a funny question,
but he's such a talented shooter. It's it's wild to think of him as
like having a down year shooting wise this year and he is, like he's
nine plus percent. Yeah, barrel over here. What's interesting about him?
And I'm curious to your thoughts on his overall season, but every not everyone,
but I think a lot of the talk is about if he's going to
continue to develop, what does that look like on offense? And I think
he has made a lot of valuable concessions on the offensive end. I don't
think there are probably more limitations to his offensive game outside the context of the
Nuggets that people don't notice. There's not like a I hate to throw this
word around there. There's not like a feel to his game where he's not
going to table set for everybody else or navigate these spaces on the ball that
are gonna seem super intuitive. It feels like so much of his development over
the past year plus has just come as like a defender, as a help
defender, as someone who's gonna be on the glass, and he really shines
through during the playoffs last year. So what have you just made of the
continued development or progress growth, however you want to frame it of his game
this year. Yeah, you look through some of the numbers and you're like,
man, it would be nice if that assist percentage was a higher than
six, Like, that would be that would be great, that would be
that would be awesome. But I want to make this point clear about his
offense that I think a lot of people have a lot of people call him
a selfish player. A lot of people call him a chucker. I don't
think that's true. I really don't. He has shown tendencies, especially lately
over the last month or so, he's trying to pass man. He really
is. He's trying to set the table for not just himself before his team.
It's not just for Jokic, but for Aaron Gordon and for Jamal Murray
and and KCP and guys like that. He had a nice pastor Reggie Jackson
in the last game that ended up being a bucket. But like he has
these moments where you realize, Okay, if his career had gone a slightly
different route, where rather than kind of shrink his role in Denver, rather
than say, Okay, you're going to play a three and D role for
Denver. Dude, if he had kind of developed within a rebuilding organization and
been asked to be more of a playmaker for others, I think he would
have been. I really do. I think that that is still in him,
and it's one of those things that Denver often tries to coax out of
him. It's just good basketball plays that happen more and more frequently, just
as he gets more and more comfortable. You look at the numbers and you
don't necessarily see it, but I do think that it is there. I
think that there are going to be moments where he has Like last year it
was a big deal when he had like six assists in a playoff game,
Like it was a big deal. But how many playmaking opportunities do you really
see Michael Porter ever having within Denver's offense, Like it's just always kind of
the finisher on the perimeter in some of those, or the finisher at the
rim in a lot of those. I wonder if they start building in more
of those to sort of kind of coerce that out of his game a little
bit more, because I do think it's there, I really do, and
it would be valuable to try and coax it, even though I don't believe
it's necessarily there. You're no better than I would just in case this Jamal
Murray shinsplince thing becomes like an issue when there are Knights where you just don't
have Jamal Murray. There will be at least two nights we know on the
one of the ends of the back the backs coming up. But if there's
more to have that additional you know, other than Gordon, and that's just
kind of like that's where he kind of miss Bruce Brown is the like you
have Reggie Jackson, like the pass dribble decision make type of guys. If
Michael Porter Junior has any layer of that to him, I mean one to
have that at what is he like seven to five at this point, like
with his size, like then it's just like game over. But that would
be super useful of course, So it's it's funny we actually have a nice
sample size of this when Jamal Murray went down. This is actually secretly one
of the horrible things that happened for Denver in the twenty twenty one to twenty
two season where he played nine games and then went down and he had to
have a season and back surgery while Jamal Murray was gone, but the real
the previous year before that, he played eighteen games after Jamal Murray sat like
after he was sidelined with the toward ACL towards the end of that season,
average twenty three and a half points per game, one point six assists.
So nothing crazy, obviously, and like you want to see that happen more.
But I do think that there is a scalability to his game that he
kind of like a lot of these guys, and you always have to sacrifice
for a championship. That's that's one of those things. But there is more
to him that I think you kind of you can you can coax it out
of it. So I wonder if that's in his future at some point,
whether it's with the Nuggets or with another team. I wonder if that's in
his future where he becomes more of a playmaker and more of a creator for
himself and others, And it starts to look a little bit more interesting.
He could be one of those players where maybe he just never leaves Denver.
But like, what would Peak Clay have looked like if he was tasked with
more and on we know what his assistan rate is and stuff, and we
know what he looks like now, but just like peak Clay, the best
play toms and what would that have looked like if he was even like just
had to be any sort of creation where it was just like the way the
Warriors played, just based on playmaking. He was never more than like the
number four option, like in that sort of type of deal. So maybe
that's a Michael Porter junior just sort of what if can we riff on some
of Denver's most important kiddos who are obviously going to be pretty crucial to whatever
happens in the playoffs. Let's start with Christian Brown. Looks a lot better
defensively lately. The hips are moving well in space on an on defense,
so is the footwork? Now? What are you watching with him? Though?
Like offensively, I think a lot of people have given him the benefit
of the doubt because of what he did in last year's playoffs, and that's
fair, but we talk about peaks and plunges. It's been like plunge plunge,
little peak plunge plung Like he's just been all over the place on offense
and not the best way possible this year yeah, Like that's that's one of
those things that when you missed with Brute without Bruce Brown, right, Like,
he's one of those consistent ten eleven point per game guys off the bench
that you could always count on, and Christian hasn't really been that this year.
I don't think anybody fully expected him to develop into that, but I
expected a little bit more offensive developments from the offseason to now, and maybe
I shouldn't. He was a rookie coming off of a championship. He was
vibing out for the entire time. I totally understand it, like do you
man, Like it's all good? But I wonder if there is another level
for him to get to as a secondary creator off of dribble drives somebody who
is a little bit more definitive with that rather than tentative. One of my
pet peeves with him is he'll drive into nowhere and then pass it out with
five seconds left on the shot clock, and then somebody else has to create
something from thirty feet away from the basket. If he can avoid that and
just get to the rim and be a little bit more consistent on those finishes
at the five to seven foot range, that would be so much more beneficial
for Denver. Just being willing to take those making them at a reasonable clip
would be a big deal. That is really what is the difference between him
being a rotation caliber player and a borderline starter caliber player. It's just having
that little extra. Teams aren't gonna respect you, all right, Go go
earn a bucket. Earn a tough bucket in a tough situation like he he
could do do with more of that. Peyton Watson aimlessly fascinating. I've said
too many times, probably to a cliche on this podcast. Now, if
you put caffeine in bodily form, I feel like it would be Peyton Watson.
What have you sort of made of him in a larger role. There's
the defensive disruption, there's the rim pressure and sort of the phrenetic energy on
offense, he's up to what is he up to? Thirty four percent on
threes now, which if that's like the clip he's at, that becomes ultra
huge for the Nuggets leading into the postseason. Are what are you sort of
again thoughts on him and just what will you be watching most closely as we
head into the stretch run. I love Peyton man like I think he's he's
one of those guys that you have both buddy, you have to be around
him to fully understand, like just how locked in and dialed he is as
an like an individual and somebody who is a former five star recruit in California.
He was the best player coming out of California his year. Like,
that's an incredible talent. Like, it's an incredible thing to think about.
Obviously lost out on some of the development and some of the playing time and
some of the the shine over the course of the previous two years. Now
he's playing an integral role for Denver, and the more he shoots, the
more I'm kind of convinced he might just be a better shooter than I ever
thought he would be. Uh, some of that comes with confidence. But
he's got like a good stroke, he's got a he it looks good,
and he plays like he is a shooter. He plays like he is somebody
who should be taking these shots. And like, the more he like if
he's if he's trustable with that, if he can make good decisions with the
ball in his hands, he's going to be a future starter. Like I
really do think that he's going to be one of those guys that you're you're
wondering, like, how did Denver get this guy? How did they replace
X with Peyton Watson, who's like this, this unbelievably talented defensive player who
can also handle the ball a little bit. It's wild to think about,
but I think he's on that trajectory the it felt like, and not all
the percentages support this when we're talking about Julian Strauther. But if he never
gets injured, and Michael Malone kind of talked about that, him and Justin
Holliday when you're looking at a nine man rotation are kind of going to be
on the outside looking in there. What if is there a chance maybe that
he kind of comes back around, just because of the idea of him,
the three point volume, the movement shooting he is at. I think his
overall three point clip is pretty low, but he's at thirty five plus percent
on pull up three pointers, which is very valuable. And like the fact
that he has only hit like sub thirty two percent of his wide open threes.
It's no this dude, Those will come. But what do you sort
of make of even if it's not this year, of what he can do
for this team or his ceiling within this rotation. Eventually, I'm I'm a
little bit lower on him in general, just because I think it's more Terrent
Ross like than it is like, Okay, a dynamic, unbelievable offensive shooter
who can do it off of movement and creation. Now, there are some
good things, don't get me wrong, and like I could be wrong about
this, to be clear, but when you think about what Denver needs around
a Yokichen a Murray, it's going to be hard for them to put too
much into Julian Strather specifically, just because you've got these other guys who can
switch and guard and defend and playmate and do these things connective wise around what
you've already got as your foundation. I do think Strather could provide them with
a little bit of a burst off the bench, There's no doubt about that.
But he's got to be more than that, in my opinion. There's
got to be more playmaking, and some of that just comes from opportunities and
reps that Denver just hasn't been able to provide. But I do think that
I'll be watching him in Summer League strongly for the next year. I assume
he will play in Summer League next year. I want to see him go
the Desmond Bain route and just like learn how to handle, learn how to
create, and then like, because he has that in him, I believe,
I really do think that he could be one of those guys that you
kind of change that development curve a little bit and you start to see something
really really special. I just think right now he's kind of in that narrow
bench shooter role, and I'm not sure what that provides value wise for Denver.
So let's get into what got you in trouble. I know what some
of your biggest concerns were or are for this team because I follow you on
Twitter, but also you talked about them more at length on the last Pickaxe
and Roll of podcast. So what are what are your biggest concerns or what
were and like have any of them shifted based off how Denver has played coming
out of the All Star break, which, by the way, as we're
recording this, for us to shift any priors after three games would be a
little ridiculous, Like for people that want you to like you know, want
your comeuppance because it's oh, like you need to apologize, like this is
it's been three games, like, let's chill, believe me, I've been
half that same discussion. It's brutal. It's brutal these Denver streets. But
uh no, it's it's the interesting thing that leading into the trade deadline,
I thought Denver needed another guy that they could trust. I thought that base.
So you've got the starters that you obviously trust. You've got Reggie Jackson,
who's like, dude, do you really trust Reggie Jackson? Do you
have? You have Christian Brown, who obviously you trust, but like,
do you trust him to play the Bruce Brown role of last year? Then
you have Peyton Watson, who, like, do you trust him to do
more than what Jeff Green did last year for you? Maybe? I don't
know. So Denver's got these guys, especially two young guys in Christian Brown
and Peyton Watson, that they are putting so much pressure on, They're putting
so much stock into and say, you have to be ready for this moment.
You have to be ready for everything that comes with it. And if
you are not ready, and then you're putting more pressure onto Reggie Jackson of
all people, then now you're just starting to say, Okay, Starters,
we got each. You gotta play you each forty two minutes, forty minutes,
forty two minutes, and that's just not a sustainable way to get through
a playoff series, Like you just can't do. That's for Denver, Like
you need four of those. You need to get through four playoff series in
order to have the goals and meet the goals of what you're supposed to do.
So I thought that Denver needed another player, and clearly some people disagreed
with me. I understand that, and like, look, people are going
to be pretty arrogant, especially coming off of a championship, And I fully
acknowledged that Denver, and like those Nuggets fans, they might be right and
I might be wrong, But I don't think it's crazy to have concerns.
I really don't. When you put a whole bunch of stock into three bench
players, not just one or like that, you have to put stock into
all three of them and say you got to be at your best heading into
this playoff series for a defending champion with as much pressure on you as possible.
That's just a tough ask, don't you think it is? Especially when
you have it. I know Christian Brown has won at every level. And
also Reggie Jackson has had some pretty like big playoffs. Mature. Yeah,
but it's just like, at the end of the day, it's Reggie even
you could have said it last year. At the end of the day it
was Bruce, but he brought I think an entire package that no player right
now is equipped to replace everything or check every box, even their peak version.
Like if you're talking Christian Brown, Reggie Jackson, Peyton Watson, maybe
if we're fast forwarding a couple of years, could it be Peyton Watson.
I don't know he'll ever have that sort of playmaking on ball, like decision
making element that Bruce trom brought, which is probably what they missed the most,
was like the combination of the decision making and rim pressure Bruce Brown could
give you. And I think that's where the biggest concern lies. And I
don't think it's you know, I don't think it's taboo to have that concern.
They might just be so good it doesn't fucking matter. Or if all
your starters are healthy, maybe don't need to play them forty plus minutes because
you're still winning these games by healthy margins. Because it kind of comes back
to there are people that tried to not diminish but or discredit, but sort
of say, well, like, look at who the Nuggets were able to
pull and didn't face any great teams last year. And it's no, there
were no great teams last year except the Nugget, and the Nuggets did what
great teams do and they truck the ever living shit out of most of those
teams. So I think your concern is fair because even from I know again,
they just watched Christian Brown play really well in the playoffs. But to
have to all of a sudden say and answer this, like last year we
were able to say, who's the most important non starter on the team?
Bruce Brown? Done? Move on. Now I ask you this question,
who is the most important non starter on the team heading it into the playoffs?
I don't know that the answer is. I'm sure you have one.
I want to hear it. I just from my perspective, I don't think
the answer is is cut and dry, and anyone who's making it cut and
dry, I still don't know that that answer then is super comfortable. My
answer is all of them. And that's the problem because last year Denver and
so I actually use this meme with David Brandon, who does okay see coverage.
They are the flex tape guy, like Bruce Brown was the flex tape
guy where you're like, hey, you get any hole in your lineup,
you got any problems, bail Bruce Brown, that's what you do. And
so that's that's Jamal Murray's out. And you need a backup point guard that's
Cacp's out. You need another perimeter defender, that's Michael Porter. You need
somebody who's a little bit more defensive minded, Bruce Brown. There you go.
And so they don't have that this year, and they're trying to piece
it together with three different players, and Reggie Jackson, Christian Brown and Bruce
Brown and Peyton Watson. Excuse me, All three of those guys have different
skill sets. All three of those guys do things that are different and that
are necessary and helpful. If you need more shooting and scoring and dynamic creation,
Reggie Jackson's probably your option. If you need more defense and stability,
Christian Brown is your option. If you need more athleticism and versatility, then
Peyton Watson's probably your guy. But you're gonna need all of those things,
and you probably need another guy, and you probably need some more size that
they don't really have unless you believe in Zeke Naji. And they probably need
a shoot that they don't really have unless you trust Julian Strawther. And so
I come to this and I'm like, man, you kind of need all
of those guys to hit because if they don't, then you're just putting so
much pressure on the top level talent to be out there to do the things
that they need to do. And like, look, are you gonna need
Jokic to be plus fifteen every game because in the minutes that he's not out
there, they're minus fourteen. I don't know. And so that is a
stressful thing man to If you're the steward of Nikolaokic's prime and you think that
he's that dude, you want to give him the best possible roster and the
best possible candidates to help him get to that place. And I just I
don't think that they did it. It might not matter, it might not
matter. And they're trying to do a tricky thing where they're no one really
talks about the two timelines when it comes to them, but they're trying to
set themselves up so that it's we can extend this title window because those are
so fleeting in the league. When people talk about why, Okay, say
didn't need to make a big trade, and maybe they didn't, but it's
like they're going to run the league for the next seven to ten years.
They might just because they have so much draft equity to keep this thing rolling.
But we just see these cores break up. Things happen, injuries happen,
free agency, trade requests happen, other teams happen. I mean,
Brooklyn seemed like a championship inevitability at one point, and look how quickly that
thing came undone. And so the Nuggets are trying to build something sustainable,
which is commendable. I just think there's risk there. As you said,
it might not matter if it ends up mattering. I do think what's a
little valuable is like they're not beyond the point of like, Okay, well,
if this isn't gonna work, we can still shift to prioritize this Nikola
Jokic window rather than the second act of Nikola Jokic's title. No. I
just my whole thing is and I think I feel this way because they've been
they haven't been as healthy this year as last year, it feels like,
at least anecdotally. But I just watched them and because they're top five are
so good that their top five, their starting life has a better net rating
this year than it did last year. And that's just weird to say,
because the West is objectively tougher this year than it was last year. And
that's why I can't I respect what they're doing. I can't bring myself to
care about it costing them a title because I don't think it will. They
are my title pick, but I don't think it's unfair to discuss it like
they're they're actively taking a risk here. I don't know what the alternative path
was, though, and that's the that's the that's the other thing. They
couldn't keep Bruce Brown. That just wasn't financially possible. And I don't know
what moves would have been out there, like who could they have got at
the trade deadline that would have made you feel I'm not asking you specifically,
this is just hypothetical. I didn't see any move, any buyout guy,
Like maybe you felt like, oh, if Thattius Young would have went to
Denver and maybe you offset some of those Aaron Gordon, like small ball five
minutes, or try and play those two together, like if you would rather
play Peyton Watson more and give Zeke Nauga chance than age fifty eight Thattius Young.
I'm not gonna fault you for trying that. And so I think that's
maybe why I feel not so strongly about against or why don't feel more strongly
about the risk involved here because I don't know what the other pass forward were,
because even if you wanted to make a move that nudged the needle,
they just didn't, like it would have cost you one of these young guys.
And then when you got into salary matching, like they don't just have
dispensable salary fillers. The Ike Nagy's the closest they're going to get to that
next year when his extension kicks in. So I think that's an element as
well. Maybe that's why some people push back on it. I still think
everything you're saying, I just one thousand percent agree with. Yeah, like
you just you want to maximize your window, right, you want to maximize
your opportunities to be the best team that you can be when the time comes,
And so there are three guys that I kind of had in mind with
this discussion. Two were buyout guys. One was Daniel Gallinari, the other
was Delon Wright, both guys that have been picked up and brought onto Eastern
Conference powers that can really help those teams. The other's Andre Drummond, who,
like you, needed three second round picks in order to get him.
Apparently Denver tried that last year with Thomas Bryant and it didn't work. They
really did, so I don't want to sit here and say that that would
have been perfect, but I do think that trying is probably the right course
of action, especially because Denver's got guys like DeAndre Jordan of lack of chanchar
who's not going to be healthy and ready to go. They've got a Hunter
Tyson and Jail and Pickett under like contracts from full time contracts for the team.
You just run out of bodies that you feel like you can trust and
play, and like, I just never want to approach a playoff situation like
that and like have two hands tied behind my back, you know, Like
that's that's one of those things where if it works out, great, because
that's that's kind of the thing. That's hiding under all of this is the
second apron, and like the super tax apron is the reason why Denver is
going this direction because they're not going to be able to add anybody next year,
like they're not going to have the taxpayer mL because they just they think
they won't be able to add a guy like Bruce Brown in the future.
It's because they traded someone arguably and or lost because KCP has that player option.
Yeah, exactly, and so like that's that's not exactly stellar either.
So you're you're not feeling you're not feeling too good about the actual external player
additions that they can make other than one draft pick that they have in twenty
two, like they've got twenty twenty four first, so they're going to keep
trying to draft and develop and hopefully some of these guys that they've drafted hit.
But it is a it is slim pickens out there for Denver. Uh
del I tend to try and deemphasize the addition of buyout guys and how much
they matter. Delon Wright would have been absolutely perfect for this team though.
So my next question for you on this team is what what is some of
the toughest. Matt Well, actually, let's start here. How important is
playoff seeding to them? Do you think I think that they would like to
avoid the four seed. I think that they like if if they have a
choice, then they'd probably want to be at least top three, because hypothetically,
if you're a three seed and both the four seed and the three seed
win against the one and two, then if you're a three seed, then
you've got home court advantage in a Western Conference finals. But that's about as
much as they really care about. They don't necessarily need to get up to
the two or the one. I think that they'd prefer it. I think
that that's something that they will try to do within their means. But they're
not going to go out of their way in order to go for a specific
number, in order to go for a specific seed. I think that they're
going to try to exceed last year's number of wins and let that be where
it may because last year, if if they if you get fifty five wins,
this year, it might be a four seed. Honestly might because of
the way that they all these teams are playing right now, and that might
be fine. Like they can they could be a good quality of a fifty
five win team and win a championship even from a three seat or a four
seed. And by the way, look they're only as we're recording this,
they're two losses out of first place in the worst they coul absolutely finish with
the best record in the West. Again, I do think it's semi important
to finish with a top three seed because it increases the chances that you get,
if you don't want to say easy, a very manageable first round matchup.
And that's just important when you're looking at because no matter where you are
second round, conference finals, NBA finals, that shit's gonna hurt, that's
gonna be tough. You just want to limit the number of games that you
play early, right, Like, you don't want to play six or seven
games in every single round because you'll just be tired out by the end of
it. One of the sneaky things for Denver last year they played five games
in the first round, six games in the second round, four games in
the third round, and five games in the in the conference or in the
NBA played the third round that they played some team in Los Angeles, the
most competitive sweep in NBA and the history for them. I will say this
is not necessarily like it is Nuggets related, but it feels weird that the
one in the two seed have the least amount of time to prepare for their
playoff matchups because of how the play. And so it's almost like, could
the three seed be like the super comfy level where it's okay, you know
you're gonna have home court advantage through the first round and you've secured like the
sixth matchup, which you can then prepare for while the playing is happening,
And it's probably not like if it ends up being Phoenix in the sixth seed
or Luca, like, yeah, that kind of sucks. So would you
prefer this version of the Warriors the Lakers whoever comes out of the play in
But that's a weird function of the play in tournament, by the way,
And I don't know that I'm sure people have talked about it. I haven't
heard a ton of people talk about it though, where it's oh, you
have the best record in the Western Conference, your reward or even the second
best record is your reward is not really knowing who you're gonna play in the
first round until like two days before it's starts. Congratulations on your thirty six
hour window of preparations. The Nuggets need to prioritize the one or the three
seed. Those are the because it's like, here's the one, okay,
you know that first playing team gets in and then it's we prepare from there.
I care the two seed, though, they do get like four days
because you get that seven eight matchup in the play in, then that's solved
and you figure out, Okay, who's gonna face the two seed at that
point, like that's that's enough time, only two options where it's like okay
as opposed to so, but still it's just a weird quirk, right,
like the three seed has all this time to prepare in the one and the
two technical we have. Let look, they are gonna finish first. Though
the Nicola Jokics text message was sent, I don't know that I would have
predicted it before the text message, but and I would pay ungodly amounts of
money to know what the contents of that text message said. Yeah, oh
yeah, So looking into the playoffs, I don't we don't need to get
into specific when they could meet them. Are there any matchups for the Nuggets
that you find either or both particularly compelling or could be very difficult for them.
Compelling specifically would be Dallas. That's one where you haven't seen yokicen Luca
go back and forth. Luca's like the one guy in the playoffs this year
where you could realistically say, oh, yeah, he could challenge for the
best player on the series, like he really could with the way that he
plays. I don't think you could really say that about anybody else other than
maybe Shay. I guess maybe Kawhi, but like, I'm not really cool
Kawhi. For sure. I would go back and forth on Shay just because
of how Jokic is so could just dissect you with his passing and Shay just
outside of his drives is not going to set up to that. And I
love Sha, but yeah, like it's but it's it's fascinating to think about.
Like those will be tough matchups in their individual right, but I like
the idea of the Luca versus Jokich dynamic and those guys kind of bringing it
out of each other the best possible performances that they could have. Like I
I think that the talent that Dallas has now on the offensive end is going
to be tough to stop for obvious reasons. And they've decided to play defense
ever since the trade deadline, too, which is look at that, look
at that. That's a big deal. I'm prepared to eat a lot of
shit on my PJ. Washington trade thoughts. Let's just I don't think you're
gonna have to for what it's worth. Yeah, like that'll it'll be interesting.
Like I think the Dallas will be a tough out. I don't care
about the Warriors of the Lakers, to be frank like, they're they're there.
It is what it is. Like I would have cared about the Warriors
a little bit until I just saw what Nicola Yokich did to Draymond Green.
And that's not even a function of Draymond you stud played. He was spectacular
defense that came to Kole Jokic. Is just I think it's Adam Ota says
this all the time. Perfect offense beats perfect defense. Yeah, there's no
doubt about it, and Jokic will. We'll have that in several of these
matchups, whether it's against Draymond, whether it's against like frankly, even somebody
like Rudy Gobert. Although that's probably the one that you got to circle back
to and say, yeah, the Timberwolves, they are the toughest possible matchup
from a personnel standpoint for Denver because they've got this athletic shooting guard who can
get to where he wants on the floor and is like, if he shoots
like Jordan in the playoffs, then like Anthony Edwards, another guy where it's
like his value might skyrocket in the playoffs relative to the regular season. Who
knows like it's it's those pieces of development, like they come faster than what
people really expect, so he could like just watch out for it obviously,
folks. But him being that good Rudy Gobert, Karl Anthony Towns, nas
Reed kind of being a trio of bigs that you can throw at Yoki,
which especially Gobert, that's a big one to watch. And then Jada McDaniel's
on ball and and Niki Alexander Walker on ball against Jamal Murray by the way,
that is going to be tough for the listeners at home. I don't
know if he'll have the playing time, but Nah might need some all defense
consideration, which is why he has been really good this year. Sorry,
good random, No, No, you're you're You're right, because how do
you stop Denver's offense. You have to be able to play at two on
two, you have to be able to rotate behind it really effectively, and
you've got to have guys that are dialed in and are long and athletic and
physical and versatile. And they have that. They have that in spades with
their personnel for sure. So that's one that I've been watching that I've I've
identified Denver plays Minnesota three times over the course of the rest of the regular
season, so they only face them once in the fifth game of the regular
season. So I want to see what those matchups look like now. I
want to see what they what they kind of envision and whether Jada McDaniels is
going to give constant pressure to Jamal Murray or somebody like that. That'll be
fascinating to watch, and those matchups can actually inform the play I don't I
like the middle of the season matchups, the early season matchups. I never
go back and look at those really to try and do playoff previews or breakdowns
because I just feel like so much changes. It's the situations like this where
it's like you said, in the stretch run they played Minnesota three times.
Those might inform and instruct how the series unfolds, and so those are big
games. I was surprised you said Dallas, they don't particularly concern me.
It's Minnesota. I feel like while Denver can very much handle Okay, see,
they can do some stuff with just their lineups when you're gonna play smaller
that I think in their drive game, getting like go go in there could
cause them problems. But I just look at how they don't really have anyone
physical enough to like even Impede Nicole Jokic. So the Timberolves are definitely my
top options. And then I don't want to say this because it feels wrong,
but if the Clippers are fully healthy, just the level of basketball they've
played, it does feel like we could see this unfold differently than we've seen
in all the matchups past. I know the Clippers just beat them, that
game was super important to them, But the caveat there is I think you
make the case that James Harden is their most important playoff player when you look
at what defenses are gonna do and the passing breakdowns that we've seen from the
Clippers in previous postseasons. And again the problem with that is the Clippers have
also just never been fully healthy since basically the dawn of time, sure in
the postseasons, and you can't trust James Harden in the playoff. That is
just that's proven fact right now. And so that's why I don't want to
dismiss everyone else in the West, just say it's really only the Timberwolves that
if I'm the Nuggets, I kind of give like a second or third pause
to but the Clippers might be the number two team for me, which feels
so incorrect just by me voicing it aloud. I'm glad this is a safe
space because I just feel so wrong saying I think. I mean, look,
the last time that Jokic faced the Clippers, he went nine to thirty
two from the field, So there's something to it. And like, if
they can slow him down in any way, shape or form, then that's
a little bit different. Now. Was Jokic at his most far focused at
that point? Probably not. Was he was he going out with a Visa
zubox and just vibing. Probably than people like that's like a big burly dude
who moves his feet. Yeah, and so like he's gonna give Yokic more
problems than chet Holmgren will because what chet Holmgren does isn't going to scale to
the perimeter as much. And if you do get in those back down situations
with Jokic, like he's just not gonna have the level of phys account.
I mean, he has the lank and the shot blocking chops, no doubt.
It's the it's whether Yokich is going to be dialed in on those shots
that are a little bit tougher for him. Like every shot is tough that
he takes for the most part, but there are certain ones that when he
gets into the body of somebody else, he's got to finish a an off
balance eight foot hook shot or a turnaround fade away whatever it ends up being.
Like, if he hits those, then they'll win the series. I
think that with their defense, Like the Clippers have a great offense, there's
no doubt about it. They have a nice mix and a lot of different
players that can initiate. Denver's defense is just going to be so dialed for
that series, though They're not going to be able to generate as many open
shots. The Clippers do as they do in some of these other matchups because
Denver can mix and match some of these and Jokic will just be better,
Like he'll be better in a series like that against that team. I will
say I kind of want to see them play Phoenix just because I feel like
Jokic will average a forty point triple double going up against nurk I think that
would be the I think that's what ends up happening. That's your peak that
that would be. That would be awesome. There's there's no love lost between
Nurkic and the Nuggets. There's there's no doubt about that. I promise.
I'm not trying to add any tousicity to this discussion. But what do you
make of the MVP race so far? Where Nicole Jokic is still favored and
I think he did He's still the betting favorite. He finished the top Tim
bond Temps's last straw poll, but there has been a ground swell for not
just Shay, but also Luca and even Giannis a little bit. I think
those are the four guys that the have you heard man Jason Tatum, He's
best probably on the best team. Yeah, I don't know all right moving
right on they paying a great player. I just anyway, moving right along
off that one. What are you do you think Nicola Okich is kind of
like the gap is just especially now, is like a little bit too large?
Or do you look at any of the other cases and say, oh,
this guy has like a legitimate case to win this award over Jokic this
season. I think SGA has a legitimate case. Like think about where think
about where Okac was projected to be and what they have done instead, Like
people look back on that and there there's a lot of revisionist history on that.
I thought that Okac was gonna win about forty to forty five games,
be in that range. I think they've already crossed that threshold. Like they
are so good and SGA is so so good on both ends of the floor,
and that really does matter. Like I know a lot of people will
have like different criticisms of Jokic, Like I don't think his defense is as
good as SGA's defense, which is probably where that's where like some of the
gaps will be held there. But with what SGA does to carry that team,
he's clearly their best player. He's clearly a guy that they can trust
on both ends of the floor and at the end of the game. I
think he's somebody that would absolutely factor into this race, especially at the top
of the West. If they were to win the Western Conference in the regular
season, that would bear a lot of fruit for a lot of people with
Yannis like it has been for whatever reason, Bucks fans are like nuggets ops
at this point. I don't know where that happened, Like, like,
what what happened? Like these these two were supposed to be, like,
let's go like this is this is the United Front against Joel Embiid. Was
the yannesty stands and Jokic stamp. That was what was supposed to happen.
It has happened in an opposite way, and I don't really understand it.
But Jannis doesn't have a great case, Like, oh, I don't think
that he like these these numbers are great, Don't don't get me wrong.
The numbers individually are great, But there is too much going on around that
team to really like. So much of it has just been very, very
odd, And there's a lot of defensive impact stuff that I can break up
with Yan that everybody just assumes his defensive impact is amazing. It's awesome,
it's wonderful, But I just I don't see it a lot of the time
with like so many of their line of sprook, Lopez is the guy that's
really driving a lot of their success, is the primary rim protector, the
guy who's walling off the paint, and I've seen it against Denver specifically,
Like I think that Giannis is a distant fourth. Personally, I think that
Luca has passed him with the way that he's done things individually. He's been
great, and the burden that Luca has to carry often given that Kyrie has
missed so many games, it has been very noticeable. But I just think
that Luca's numbers are better than Yanni's. I think that Shay has a great
team case and a great individual defense case. But I think that Joka is
still the MVP. I really do, and he's going to be at the
center of it for most people until he loses track of it in mid March,
where he's like, you know what I'm getting, there's too much MVP
buzz. Let me put up a six to six and tell in twelve game
or something like that. I probably a little bit higher on the honest's case
to you just looking at the numbers and what he can still do defensively.
But I do agree that Shay feels like the biggest threat right now. Yolkic
is my MVP pick at the moment. Still, I do wonder you mentioned
this the late season stretch and Shay his case might end up being if he's
gonna be invested in getting that award and Yokic isn't as invested in getting that,
that might be what sways it. But I do think Yokich is the
MVP as of now. He's Ryan. It's just clearly the best player by
the way, like there's to me, it's hard for me to go against
that too much, and that if their cases are individually similar, then like
it's it's fair to have Yokic as the guy personally. Ryan, This was
great. Thank you for giving me so much of your time. Are you
able just to tell our listeners where they can find you in all the fantastic
work that you do. Yeah, absolutely, you can find me at NBA
Blackburn, on Twitter x whatever you want to call it. I do writing
four Mile High Sports covering the Denver Nuggets, and if you're interested in general
stuff, on YouTube. Then I do a podcast called The Alleyup, which
had a little bit of a hiatus lately, but we'll try to get that
back on track, so make sure to be on the lookout for it.
Yes, definitely check it out, and especially the work he's doing for Mile
High Sports as well. Ryan, thank you so much. Once again,
rest assured I will be pesturing you again down the line. Thank you, sir,