1 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:20,120 What is krak lacing, fellow thermonuclear a effs. I am dan fa Valley 2 00:00:20,199 --> 00:00:24,120 coming at you without my certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes. I 3 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:29,879 am, however, super pleased and excited and grateful to be joined by the 4 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:35,359 one, the only. Ryan Blackburn covers the Denver Nuggets for Mile High Sports. 5 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,399 He also is the host of the Alley Oop podcast that covers the entire 6 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:44,359 NBA and speaks with guests for every team. Very digestible, very consumable. 7 00:00:44,399 --> 00:00:46,600 I am on it, though, so take that with a grain of salt. 8 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,679 Follow the Alley Oop pod At Alley Oop Pod spelled exactly as it sound, 9 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,679 and make sure you follow Ryan at NBA. Blackburn also spelled exactly as 10 00:00:56,679 --> 00:01:00,280 it sounds. Man, that was easy. This was I've been on the 11 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,120 Value Pot a few times now. Ryan and I went on I think Pick 12 00:01:03,159 --> 00:01:07,359 Act and Roll a couple of times as well too. I've never had you 13 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,000 on this podcast, so this is long overdue. I'm excited to talk to 14 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,879 Denver Nuggets with you. That's why we're here. That's a team that you 15 00:01:14,879 --> 00:01:17,760 know. I was going through it because I fucked up our schedule and recorded 16 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,799 a boat. I published an episode over the weekend I had held for this 17 00:01:19,879 --> 00:01:23,519 week, and I'm a psycho that believes in the same week we need three 18 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,959 episodes. I was going through teams that I wanted to tackle. I felt 19 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,439 we neglected the Hornets, the Nets. No one fucking cares about those teams. 20 00:01:30,599 --> 00:01:34,280 We've been neglecting the Nuggets though, because Grant and I we talk about 21 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,640 them. We're just like, well, they are title pick and we're just 22 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,680 gonna move on. It's like we're not worried about them. It's time to 23 00:01:40,719 --> 00:01:42,400 dig deeper into the Nuggets. Though they are the ranting champs, they are 24 00:01:42,519 --> 00:01:46,519 very good. First and foremost, though, how the heck are you? 25 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,959 Man? I'm doing good. Thanks for Frank for an awesome intro. Always 26 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,000 happy to have you on the Alley you and on Pickacs and really appreciate you 27 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,920 you having me on this show first time, man, first time for everything. 28 00:01:57,959 --> 00:02:00,000 And I always love listening to this show. Is that you guys do 29 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,920 have such a great job of hitting such a wide range of topics, and 30 00:02:04,719 --> 00:02:07,080 you and you and Grant do an excellent job. Well, thank I'm gonna 31 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,240 blush here. Thank you so much. Ryan. Yeah, I cannot wait 32 00:02:10,319 --> 00:02:14,639 to potentially get you in some trouble because Nuggets fans were heading in the All 33 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,479 Star Break, they were not happy with you, happy at all. I 34 00:02:16,479 --> 00:02:20,919 have a feeling the tenor of this podcast is gonna be a lot more optimistic, 35 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,080 though I did want to start before getting into why they're mad at you. 36 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,919 Did I guess we actually know now that I was gonna ask you, 37 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,960 did they have this stretch coming out of the All Star Break circled on their 38 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,680 calendar? And it seems like the answer is, well, duh, yes, 39 00:02:32,759 --> 00:02:38,439 because Nicole Jokic sent a text message, you tweeted out the video that 40 00:02:38,479 --> 00:02:43,159 Contavious Carlo Pope had said. Niccol Jokic sent out the text message and heading 41 00:02:43,159 --> 00:02:45,840 out of the All Star Breaker coming out of the All Star Break, and 42 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,400 that's when kcp knew that, oh this is legit and so this is this 43 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,800 like and you also posted something about Michael Malone. Really seems like they want 44 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,199 to beat the Kings on Wednesday Night, who they've lost too three times this 45 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,879 season? Yeah, three times? Then we're we're times for all of them. 46 00:03:00,879 --> 00:03:02,439 They've been on the second end of back to back on a couple of 47 00:03:02,479 --> 00:03:07,599 those occasions. But then and then the the other one was heading into the 48 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,919 All Star Break on the final game before the All Star breaks, so not 49 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,680 necessarily the greatest indication of just how they match up with the Kings. But 50 00:03:15,199 --> 00:03:19,919 Michael Malone, former coach of the Sacramento Kings, where he was unceremoniously fired 51 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,000 in his second season while Tamarcus Cousins was dealing with was it laryngitis or something 52 00:03:24,039 --> 00:03:30,479 like that, Like I have no idea wild times wild you think Sacramento regrets 53 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,199 that. I think they might. I think they might have surely fired him, 54 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,639 like twenty five games later or something. So it's like kind of that 55 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,120 thing where toe like, well, imagine if the Knicks had drafted Steph Curry 56 00:03:38,159 --> 00:03:40,280 and it's like the Knicks would have traded Steph Curry for Mellow or something like 57 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,479 before Steph Curry was Steph Curry. So it doesn't even matter. Yeah, 58 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,080 no, I'm with you there. But this stretch was interesting, And so 59 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:52,680 I was actually the guy who asked KCP about that text or about just what 60 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,240 Jokic has done over the course of this post All Star Breaks stretch and just 61 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,280 where he has been so different, and he sent out a text message to 62 00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:05,639 the entire team after the All Star Game and was basically he didn't like caseyp 63 00:04:05,719 --> 00:04:11,199 didn't share the exact specifics, but apparently hyped up the entire Nuggets media are 64 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,279 the the Nuggets Chat, they're their their own personal uh phone chats. So 65 00:04:15,319 --> 00:04:18,319 should be interesting to see what Denver does from here. But they're three and 66 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,639 oh out of the All Star break. Yoka just putting up crazy numbers, 67 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:27,480 historic numbers that we've never seen before, and it just right, that's just 68 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,120 nikola Joka's default. Yeah, this is this is a Tuesday for Nikolik. 69 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,040 Yeah, it's just what he does. But uh, it is interesting like 70 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:39,240 when when he really turns it on and when he's really locked in, I 71 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,199 think it gives the team energy and it gives them a lot of beliefs. 72 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,680 So nice to see it out of the All Star break and they're clearly rolling 73 00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:48,800 right now. Is there anything specific and that you view as oh, we 74 00:04:48,879 --> 00:04:53,920 need to watch this in these three games that we've seen so far before they 75 00:04:53,959 --> 00:04:56,519 head into that matchup with the Kings, which is when this podcast will go 76 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,439 live, that you're kind of just like, oh, this might be real, 77 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,519 or this is really interesting, or this this matters. Is it just 78 00:05:02,199 --> 00:05:08,000 Nay is alive and he's playing. It's funny, man, Like, I 79 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:12,120 think one thing that's gone under the radar for people about why Denver's kind of 80 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,959 gone under the radar themselves. They have been a horrible transition offense, horrible, 81 00:05:16,199 --> 00:05:19,279 just like one of the worst in the NBA, and coming out of 82 00:05:19,319 --> 00:05:23,279 the All Star break, that was one of the things that they talked about, 83 00:05:23,399 --> 00:05:26,519 just saying, hey, we need to be more detail oriented, we 84 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,879 need to understand what made us a great championship team. And they've they've been 85 00:05:30,959 --> 00:05:34,120 great out in transition. Over the course of these past few games, they've 86 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:38,600 put the pedal to the medal against Washington, against Portland and then it gets 87 00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:43,040 Golden State on the road, some really really impressive wins. Not necessarily all 88 00:05:43,079 --> 00:05:49,079 impressive teams, but Denver has put more detail oriented work into these three games 89 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:54,800 and it's it's helped them tremendously, especially with their starting units. So but 90 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,560 it's nice and hey, Zekenagi is alive. Man. That's one that we 91 00:05:57,639 --> 00:06:00,720 can circle back to and say, Man, I thought he was thought he 92 00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:03,800 was a Gonner, but he's rising like the undertaker. Men. Yeah, 93 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:08,240 that's I mean him just he's been great. Opponents are shooting under fifty nine 94 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,360 percent against him at the rim since he started entering the or re entered the 95 00:06:12,439 --> 00:06:14,560 rotation, or first entered the rotation, whatever you want to call it. 96 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,439 This team. Also what's also kind of flown under the radar about them is 97 00:06:17,439 --> 00:06:21,639 we're officially at a point their defense statistically has outperformed their offense so far, 98 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:26,000 their ninth in points allowed for possession, for cleaning the glass, tenth in 99 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,600 offensive efficiency, which is just absolutely wild. And this is a team. 100 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,120 And you mentioned the Warriors victory specifically. You know, if you're gonna beat 101 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,319 up on Portland, whatever, it's Portland. But the win against the Warriors 102 00:06:34,319 --> 00:06:41,319 specifically was almost this harbinger of how far the Nuggets have come because of all 103 00:06:41,399 --> 00:06:45,279 the answers they now have defensively, and I think, and we'll get into 104 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,279 more of Jokic probably like towards the tail end of this podcast, but you 105 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,199 look at all the options they have. I know, Denver's not considered a 106 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:55,160 super athletic team, but to have Aaron Gordon, to have KCP chasing around 107 00:06:55,199 --> 00:06:58,199 these guys, now, how Peyton Watson in the equation and then Nikole Yokic 108 00:06:58,319 --> 00:07:00,600 just talked about how he thinks his defensive IQ is improved, and it has, 109 00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:04,040 and it's like it's not just we always talked about that became the cliche. 110 00:07:04,079 --> 00:07:08,079 Look at what the Nuggets. Look at what yok can do when he's 111 00:07:08,079 --> 00:07:10,639 playing up high. Look at what Yokis can do now when he's playing and 112 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,879 drop, and it's just like, no, he's still not the greatest rim 113 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,680 protector, but he's busting up plays. He's in the right spot. It 114 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,040 feels like more than ever, i'd actually listen to the dunker spot and nakay 115 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,319 Is duncan at numbers on what the Nuggets were giving up when Nikole Yokic is 116 00:07:21,319 --> 00:07:24,879 in a drop. It's like point nine to two points per possession. I 117 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,560 hope I got that number right, but shout out in the Kayas for having 118 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,639 access to that info. This team is just like It's why I couldn't bring 119 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,480 myself to one be concerned about them, mostly because I got concerned last year 120 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:39,480 when they went through like their March April malays and they just like they remained 121 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,360 my title pick, but they just annihilated everyone in the playoffs. But it's 122 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:48,560 like they they feel more complete then maybe not because last year's team was complete, 123 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:53,560 but like they might just be. This is they've been more complete the 124 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,959 past two seasons than I think they've actually received credit for, is what I'm 125 00:07:56,959 --> 00:08:00,000 getting out. When you look at the entire package. There's holes you mentioned 126 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:01,720 kind of you know, the transition stuff. They're not a team that necessarily 127 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,959 wants to play super fast sure anyway, So I'm just I don't know where 128 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,600 you sort of land on that, Like the entire Nuggets product, there are 129 00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:13,639 still questions. But when it really coalaces, this is one of the like 130 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,879 what is the team that is more complete when you look at their like top 131 00:08:16,959 --> 00:08:20,800 end outcome right now, is it might be Boston, And I struggled to 132 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,279 come up with any other challengers. And then when you look at Boston, 133 00:08:24,399 --> 00:08:28,839 like there are still those questions that they're gonna have late game where some of 134 00:08:28,839 --> 00:08:31,720 the functional stuff that they do throughout the first forty three forty four minutes of 135 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:35,480 the game, you just don't know if that's going to happen again in the 136 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,559 final four minutes. So that's say it's a fair understandable points and a fair 137 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,320 criticism of them. But with Denver, they they know what happens when they 138 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,320 turn it on. One of the indicators for Denver over the past couple of 139 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,360 years has been their clutch defense, and it was even more of an indicator 140 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,200 last year, where man, they were their kind of subpar to average for 141 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,919 much of the year in their defensive rating, but during the actual clutch minutes 142 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,440 and when they are really trying hard, when they're really focusing, they locked 143 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,039 in and we're one of the best clutch defenses in the NBA this year. 144 00:09:05,159 --> 00:09:11,000 Teams like and people aren't as as taken surprise by Denver being a good defensive 145 00:09:11,039 --> 00:09:15,639 team, but they're bringing that more into the rest of the game. There 146 00:09:15,879 --> 00:09:20,039 stretches throughout the rest of the game where they are more complete as a defensive 147 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,879 unit. I think their bench defense is better than it was last year, 148 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,480 and having Peyton Watson and Christian Brown kind of spearheading that off the bench, 149 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,559 that was a big deal. And Denver's got a bunch of different guys that 150 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,039 can to your earlier points about the Warriors and Steph Curry sort of switch around 151 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,440 do different things. They've been playing a bunch of different schemes and they've got 152 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,720 a lot of high IQ defenders on their roster that know what they're doing. 153 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,720 Like even somebody like a Jamal Murray or Michael Porter junior, guys who are 154 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:54,480 I think considered liabilities within their actual defensive schemes, they're fine. Like if 155 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,440 very worst defensive player is Jamal Murray or Michael Porter junior, then like this 156 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,600 is the Michael Porter. That's actually like a if those are your worst guys, 157 00:10:01,639 --> 00:10:05,120 you're doing pretty well. And Denver, like, like you said, 158 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,120 ninth in defensive rating on the season in the clutch this year, there once 159 00:10:09,159 --> 00:10:11,799 again I think the best clutch defense in the NBA are close to it. 160 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,200 And that's just it. It's not something that other teams can replicate. Man 161 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,600 Like they have a different gear that they can go to, and it's their 162 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,000 question. Stuff is held up to when you sort of I like to look 163 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,480 at like the final two minutes of one possession games rather than just like the 164 00:10:26,519 --> 00:10:28,679 plus or minus five, they're absolutely just like killing people. I think there's 165 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,159 like two teams that have a higher winning percentage in those situations. So they're 166 00:10:33,159 --> 00:10:35,240 not always gonna win easy, but they're gonna win and they're just gonna rack 167 00:10:35,279 --> 00:10:39,320 up wins. The macro stuff though, and this one I think is we 168 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,159 still haven't seen a lot of talk about it in Denver circles for sure, 169 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:48,159 but nationally, how concerning is the management of Jamal Murray's shin splints, even 170 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,639 knowing that from here on Denver only has those I think two back to backs 171 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,440 remaining. Yeah, so, playing three games out of the All Star break 172 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,559 before the All Star Break, he was sitting due to those shin splints. 173 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:01,360 Out of the All Star break, he played the first game, sat the 174 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,200 second night of a back to back, and then came back against Golden State. 175 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,159 First game, he looked pretty good, but looked fine. When he 176 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:13,039 came back against Golden State, he looked slow. He looked like just like 177 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:18,600 he was managing pain in that game and ultimately played a great one, ultimately 178 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,720 was very good in that one, and then kind of rose above the pain, 179 00:11:20,799 --> 00:11:26,480 I think. But it's those moments where like you can totally see him 180 00:11:26,879 --> 00:11:31,120 sort of being uncomfortable and not being a little bit more tentative and not necessarily 181 00:11:31,159 --> 00:11:35,600 putting pedal to the metal. I'm a little bit concerned about that personally, 182 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,200 because you need Jamal Murray to be a tiptop shape in order to win a 183 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,919 title. That's just that's gonna have to happen, and with the West the 184 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,039 way that it is this year, you need him to be able to create 185 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,279 as much space as possible against some of the perimeter defenders that he's gonna have 186 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,960 to face, like a Jada McDaniels or a Lou Dort or guys of that 187 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,639 nature. At the top of the West were hell Kawhi Leonard and Paul George. 188 00:11:54,639 --> 00:11:58,519 If you're facing the Clippers, there's a lot of matchups that you're gonna 189 00:11:58,519 --> 00:12:03,559 have to work really really hard against to create space and be athletic and be 190 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,080 dynamic, And like, that's gonna be one of those things that I'm watching 191 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,720 for sure. Like I love Jamal, I think he's great. I think 192 00:12:09,759 --> 00:12:13,720 he's He's one of those guys that is a gamer that will rise to that 193 00:12:13,799 --> 00:12:16,320 moments and in the playoffs he might just rise above that pain too. But 194 00:12:16,639 --> 00:12:20,559 you just never want a guy to have to go into a playoff series with 195 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,840 pain, So hopefully they can manage him a little bit better and then get 196 00:12:24,879 --> 00:12:28,840 him to be without that. Just heading into April and Matt, where do 197 00:12:28,879 --> 00:12:33,320 you land overall on Jamal Murray, who I think is kind of a sneakly 198 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,320 divisive player. There's definitely the default of, well, look at what he's 199 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,759 done in the postseason, and you can't, like, you just can't argue 200 00:12:39,799 --> 00:12:43,919 against what like the moments he's had in the postseason. He's had higher highs 201 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,120 than a Joel Embiid than a James Hard And I'm not talking about just winning 202 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,440 a title, but just like his individual performances in general, and then yet 203 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,440 he goes through these peaks and plunges in the regular season and even the playoffs. 204 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,200 I think people kind of forgot that about last postseason because the Nuggets were 205 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,080 able to kind of not I guess not steam roll, but they kind of 206 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,799 ambled their way through the West playoff pracket, Like Jamal Murray was kind of 207 00:13:03,879 --> 00:13:07,759 up and down to start that. But you just look at all he does, 208 00:13:07,879 --> 00:13:11,679 the tough shot make shot making, the defensive switch that he has, 209 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,720 like he just gritty as fuck sometimes on defense. He just he has that 210 00:13:13,759 --> 00:13:16,639 switch. And if, like you said, if you consider him your worst 211 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,639 defender, I still might consider Michael Porter junior. But because he has the 212 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,120 size, because of the stuff he could do as the low man, Jamal 213 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:26,080 Murray is just like the smallest guy in that lineup, so the starting fives 214 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,360 you default to him, what is just like? But then you look at 215 00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:31,200 the other thing. You look at the lineup data without Nikola Jokic when he 216 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,759 plays worse than ever, they're like minus seventeen points per one hundred possessions. 217 00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:39,120 And it's not I mean, he's trying to carry some pretty sparse lineups. 218 00:13:39,159 --> 00:13:43,840 But where do you just in the context of just the star horror hierarchy in 219 00:13:43,879 --> 00:13:46,600 the NBA. I've been asked about whether Jamal Murray can be a top ten 220 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,559 player. This was after the finals and then now it's always a different direction 221 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,159 where it's like, is Jamal Murray the product of just having Nikola Jokic around? 222 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,360 The answer, of course will lie somewhere in between. But I'm just 223 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,399 very curious to someone who has covered him so intimately over the years, where 224 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,799 you sort of and on him as a player, because I do think the 225 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:07,679 discussion around him is like kind of complicated. He is perhaps the most divisive 226 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,200 player on the Nuggets, for sure. Lots of people would love for him 227 00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:16,519 to be able to sustain his greatness and sustain his incredible play without Jokichen, 228 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:22,519 to be able to carry those other lineups, those different units that have clearly 229 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,960 been a problem for Denver over the course of that frankly Jokic's entire career, 230 00:14:28,039 --> 00:14:33,159 where you get into these moments where yeah, Jokichen and the Nuggets have they've 231 00:14:33,159 --> 00:14:35,360 built it, believe they're plus seven, they're plus ten, whatever, and 232 00:14:35,399 --> 00:14:39,399 then that lead is automatically gone when Yokic comes back in, and that's never 233 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:45,240 fun. Murray is one of those guys that in the playoffs, Denver found 234 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,720 a lineup last year with him leading it with Aaron Gordon as the five, 235 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,960 where he was able to be that leader, where he was able to be 236 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:58,799 that primary ball handler, the decision maker, creating crazy shots and making them 237 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,519 at a high level. He was doing that on a consistent basis at that 238 00:15:01,559 --> 00:15:05,080 point. I don't think that translates to the regular season, if I'm being 239 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:11,200 honest, because he up here, like in the mental he is somebody that 240 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,799 he needs it to have some steaks, and I think he, more than 241 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,559 anybody on the Nuggets this year, has sort of taken that lase a fair 242 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,759 approach to the regular season and said I'll be ready for the playoffs. I'll 243 00:15:22,759 --> 00:15:26,639 be ready when I'm needed. Because he's not really needed right now, despite 244 00:15:26,639 --> 00:15:28,679 the fact that Denver is currently a three seed and not a one seed, 245 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,440 so it's hard to evaluate, Like he's not going to be a guy that 246 00:15:33,039 --> 00:15:37,080 carries them as a true second star to Jokic, Like that's just not what 247 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,960 his role is going to be. And yet his skill set and his kind 248 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:46,480 of the way that he plays augments what Denver does to the point where they 249 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:52,080 are unbeatable when you have Jokic and him, And what he is is not 250 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,440 quite an all star in a traditional sense, but it might be more valuable 251 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,639 than that in a playoff sense. Nobody really knows how to folly you valuated 252 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,440 man, Like it's it's wild here because he goes through these highs and lows 253 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,559 during the regular season, but you know what he can do in a playoff 254 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,200 context. No matter what, it makes you feel better that you're at least 255 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,600 somewhat torn as someone who's like actually seen more. If it makes me feel 256 00:16:15,639 --> 00:16:18,960 better about not having like a definitive opinion now, I'm like, yeah, 257 00:16:19,159 --> 00:16:22,200 I don't. I wouldn't call him a top ten player or anything like that 258 00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:26,000 if I were to put a number on it, and I did in the 259 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,559 offseason, I would say that he is in the sixteen to twenty range, 260 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,360 and like you can say, yeah, there are players in that top fifteen 261 00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:37,759 that you guarantee like regular season, playoffs, whatever, like you're probably gonna 262 00:16:37,799 --> 00:16:41,600 have him them over him. But some of those guys pretty consistently don't perform 263 00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:45,960 that well in the playoffs either. And then you have somebody like a Jamal 264 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:51,159 who's probably like the thirtieth to thirty fifth best regular season player and like the 265 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,279 tenth ord or eleventh best playoff player, Like how do you balance that? 266 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,919 How anybody balance it's? I think that's a good way to frame it. 267 00:16:56,919 --> 00:17:00,399 I don't know where I rank him specifically, but he's clearly out side the 268 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,320 all NBA tier when you look at the regular season. But if we had 269 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,559 all postseason teams and let's just say you cut it down to ten players, 270 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:10,319 like too all postseason teams, he probably would have made two of those teams. 271 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,440 He might be on it. And he does it over and over and 272 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,559 over again, like even when he was twenty one years old in his first 273 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:22,720 playoff run, he's not playing Damian Lillard man, Like what was that in 274 00:17:22,759 --> 00:17:26,519 that Spurs series where it's like he literally cost them a game, but also 275 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,880 won them two. Ka Walburray's one hell of a roller coaster ride, wild 276 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,240 man, but it's a fun ride. And then what what he does for 277 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,200 this Nuggets team, Like when when he is at his best, they truly 278 00:17:37,279 --> 00:17:41,880 are unbeatable. That is the level that you can put them out. Like 279 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:47,279 if he is somebody that can rise to that level and kind of join Yokich 280 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,319 on the pedestal at the top, then he is going to be somebody that 281 00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:53,279 makes Denver an unbeatable force. There's nobody, there's no other team that can 282 00:17:53,319 --> 00:17:56,119 really match up with them when he is at that level. You've seen it 283 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,599 in a couple of times this year where he is facing the Boston Celtics on 284 00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:06,200 national TV and like Jamal, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, Derek White, 285 00:18:06,279 --> 00:18:07,319 Drew Holliday, it didn't matter who was in front of him, he still 286 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,599 put up thirty five. And then in this last game against Golden State, 287 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,640 this was a big matchup for Golden State and Jamal rises to the occasion and 288 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,839 scores sixteen in the second quarter alone. So like, it's just you don't 289 00:18:18,839 --> 00:18:22,599 know how to evaluate it. Man, it's crazy. I will say one 290 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,799 thing he does is those tough jumpers, And I would argue that the pull 291 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:33,000 up three pointer may arguably be like the most important or salient shot in basketball. 292 00:18:33,079 --> 00:18:34,799 Right now, you have someone who's just gonna consistently hit those, and 293 00:18:34,839 --> 00:18:38,680 this year he's at forty two point three percent on off the dribble threes, 294 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,160 and they're being the highest on volume. Like he's he's been really really great 295 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,279 at that, and like, I don't know how many other players in the 296 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,279 NBA can match the volume inefficiency for him. Oh, I'll tell you right 297 00:18:48,319 --> 00:18:51,880 now. There are fifty three players who've attempted at least one hundred pull up 298 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,119 three pointers. Only Duncan Robinson, who's gonna have most of those be assisted. 299 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,640 Mike Conley because he's just a fucking stud. My God, and c 300 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,839 are the only players who are hitting there is at a higher clip while meeting 301 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,759 that benchmark. So wild, Jamal Murray, Good, there's the definitive conclusion. 302 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,839 Dude mentioned Aaron Gordon quickly before they have upped. I guess maybe they 303 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,079 haven't if you depend like how you viewed it last year when he was playing 304 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,680 with Jeff Green, But they've increased. To me, the Aaron Gordon at 305 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,640 the five arrangements. Those are destroying teams. Right now, we're up to 306 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,359 almost three hundred posessions on the season, which per Cream the Glass is way 307 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,759 more than he logged between the playoffs and regular season last year. Again, 308 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:36,240 the Jeff Green numbers kind of fudge that. Have you noticed anything specifically about 309 00:19:36,279 --> 00:19:41,240 those lineups that are really clicking this year versus last? And I will point 310 00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:44,319 out, like the offense has been pretty good in those stretches and when you 311 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,240 look at the defense, they're not even getting like there's some opponent shooting noise, 312 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,880 but it's not a lot, and so like they're not those those differentials, 313 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,240 I think they're like a plus thirteen plus points per one hundred possessions when 314 00:19:55,319 --> 00:19:57,359 Gordon is your five. They're not getting lucky in those stretches. They're actually 315 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:02,279 just winning them flat out. And look, those are important because Jokic is 316 00:20:02,279 --> 00:20:04,160 not on the floor. And any stretch that you can win with Yokic not 317 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,200 on the floor, whether it's a few more minutes here he's playing, you 318 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,519 know, thirty four minutes during the regular season, even when he's playing forty 319 00:20:11,559 --> 00:20:15,279 minutes in the playoffs, if you can just get by for a few minutes 320 00:20:15,319 --> 00:20:18,359 without him, it's huge, and so I'm just curious if you've noticed anything 321 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,200 different or what's made those units so or some of those units so effective. 322 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,480 So here is the key to non Nikola Jokic minutes. You need somebody to 323 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,680 be able to reprise what Nikola Jokic does, and there's one player on the 324 00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:33,559 roster that can do that at a reasonable level, and it's Aaron Gordon. 325 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,079 Despite the fact that he's six' seven six' eight, he's more of 326 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:41,200 a power forward than he is a center, obviously, but when you slide 327 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,480 him over to the five, he's a big body, he's versatile, he 328 00:20:44,519 --> 00:20:48,680 can do a bunch of different things. But it's the underrated improvements that he 329 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,920 has made to his game and his understanding of what needs to happen when he's 330 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,079 on the floor. He is a great passer. He's a great passer at 331 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,039 his position who doesn't obviously get to show it that much because he's mostly finishing 332 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,200 plays when he's with Jokich and when he's with Murray, but more often than 333 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,319 not, when he is at the five, he's serving as that fulkrum of 334 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,400 everything that they do, and the offense is generally pretty good when you run 335 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,079 him with Murray specifically, but even if you're just running him with like Reggie 336 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:21,359 Jackson and CACP and Michael Porter and guys like that, He's creating good shots 337 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,920 from the post, from the top of the key in transition, especially like 338 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,319 he's a guy who loves to push the ball in transition and generates good shots 339 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,279 that way. He is a great shot generator that is hiding in plain sight 340 00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:37,200 in Denver's offense because of what his role is for Jokic, and I think 341 00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:41,960 that's just a fascinating aspect for Denver. They did not like I didn't know 342 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,200 what to expect when Aaron was going to be traded to the Nuggets. I 343 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,440 thought it would be great. I thought it would be a great fit, 344 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,319 but I thought it would be more narrow than what he's done. But he 345 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,839 is, like he fills so many roles man, He's a great jack of 346 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,440 all trades in a lot of different categories. But his ability to scale up 347 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,480 in those none Yokich menis is what I think is really really helping them. 348 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,160 And that's like they were those lineups are huge during the postseason, and now 349 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,480 that they feel more of like a a staple that just feels like it can 350 00:22:11,559 --> 00:22:15,920 unlock a different sort of level for the Nuggets this playoffs, and that could 351 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,119 be really important just because their path out of the West this year, I 352 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,160 imagine, is going to be a lot harder than it was last season when 353 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,119 you just look at the level of teams where it's wolf the Clippers are healthy, 354 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:27,279 and know the Nuggets really don't care about the Clippers, which is fair. 355 00:22:27,279 --> 00:22:30,359 But if the Suns are healthy, there's the Timberwolves in the thunder are 356 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,720 rising, and there's another team like I don't really know how to feel about 357 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,640 the Kings, the Lakers, and the Warriors, but if one of those 358 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,599 three teams catches lightning in a bottle, the Mavericks just with Luca, So 359 00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:42,599 the path out of West feels harder. And to have just these different, 360 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,759 like alternative units that you can fall back on, even for a few minutes 361 00:22:47,759 --> 00:22:51,240 at times that Jokic can catch a breather, or even just playing opponents to 362 00:22:51,279 --> 00:22:55,440 a net even without him, that kind of up being like mission critical beyond 363 00:22:55,519 --> 00:23:00,480 mission critical. Yeah, it's no doubt, man, like you need different 364 00:23:00,599 --> 00:23:03,960 looks in a playoffs because how many minutes can you realistically just play your starting 365 00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:08,440 unit. It's not gonna happen that much. Like Jokicic can play forty minutes 366 00:23:08,599 --> 00:23:12,079 at a reasonable level, asking him to play forty two, forty five, 367 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:17,440 forty eight is probably incorrect, and like he can do it. He's proven 368 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,720 that he can play sixty five in a playoffs iron Man and has incredible stamina. 369 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,119 It's true, Like then it's it's important to like just sort of understand 370 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,319 who he is as a player too, but even still, like you want 371 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,680 everybody operating a peak physical condition and with peak circumstances so you can maximize your 372 00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:37,359 your wins, you can maximize your plus minus in those moments, and like 373 00:23:37,599 --> 00:23:42,319 be as good as you can be at at an individual level. And Aaron 374 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,279 finding opportunities for him to be that playmaker, I think is really really important 375 00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:51,960 for Denver because he's also just gonna switch on to everybody. He's like, 376 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,440 there aren't that many better switch defenders in the NBA than Aaron Gordon because he's 377 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,519 had so much experience switching out of guards and guard guards back when he was 378 00:24:00,519 --> 00:24:04,200 first brought on for Denver. But now he's like guarding centers and he's guarding 379 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,440 forwards and he's guarding wings like he does all of these different things for Denver 380 00:24:08,519 --> 00:24:11,759 specifically. Oh and he's a great rebounder. Oh and he's a great passer. 381 00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:15,880 Oh and he's driving to the rim and just barreling into people and drawing 382 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,160 contact and getting to the free throw line. He's a great player. Man, 383 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,519 just kind of hiding in plainsight and what is a crazy Western conference. 384 00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:26,400 But you need those versatile athletes in order to match up with what is a 385 00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:30,640 crazy West because all those different matchups that you talked about, whether it's the 386 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,759 Warriors or the Lakers or the Kings or whoever, like, you need a 387 00:24:34,759 --> 00:24:40,559 player like Aaron Gordon to kind of kind of flexibly match what he needs to 388 00:24:40,599 --> 00:24:42,319 do in those cases. You know what you're gonna get from Yoki, you 389 00:24:42,319 --> 00:24:45,880 know you're gonna get from Murray. Now you know what you're gonna get from 390 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,519 Gordon is just what the team needs. It's not any one particular thing, 391 00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:53,160 It's just what they need. This is an Aaron Gordon related question, but 392 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,119 I'm gonna use it as a launching pad for a KCP some appreciation talk. 393 00:24:57,519 --> 00:25:00,799 Who is the third most important player on the Nuggets? And I do think 394 00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:07,160 it's often framed as Michael Porter Junior or Aaron Gordon, but I do believe 395 00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:10,880 the answer might be Aaron Gordon. I'm curious to know what your answer is. 396 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,559 But when you look at the defense of difficulty that CACP has, where 397 00:25:14,559 --> 00:25:17,920 it's yes, Aaron Gordon is clearly their most versatile defender. But if you 398 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,480 look at who's probably gonna defend the other team's best player on most nights or 399 00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:25,240 just the highest usage player, it's going to be KCP. And he does 400 00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:27,799 that job. He's I think been crucial to They've done a really nice job 401 00:25:27,839 --> 00:25:32,799 limiting opponent three point volume, which I think that can be impacted way more 402 00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:36,200 by the defense than actual three point efficiency, where a lot of fans are 403 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:37,359 like, yeah, well we have the best three point defense in the league. 404 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,880 It's like, all right, let's chill. So where that first part 405 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,160 of that question, Who is the Nuggets's third most important player to you? 406 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,799 It's a rotating cast because sometimes it will be Michael Porter because of what he 407 00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:55,519 can provide as an extra element to what the the Jokich Mark two man game 408 00:25:55,599 --> 00:25:57,799 is. And like when you have a guy who can rebound to be in 409 00:25:57,839 --> 00:26:03,799 an interior presence that that certainly helps to but Aaron, I think is really 410 00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:07,480 the most like he's the third most important guy on most nights, just because 411 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:14,400 of how Denver likes to structure their lineups and their rotations where and even their 412 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,559 play calls where Gordon is playing with Yokich and Murray more than the other two. 413 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:25,359 He's playing with them in a horn setup. He's balancing out between different 414 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,319 actions when they're on the elbow, when they when he's in the short corner. 415 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,200 Yokic is always looking for him first on the the rotations rather than the 416 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,039 perimeter, and like he he does really kind of fold into that really nicely, 417 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,599 Like when you when you talk about three man combos, what those guys 418 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:47,319 run between Yokich, Murray and Gordon is some of the most dynamic stuff top 419 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,920 to bottom in the entire NBA. But it's not to take away from KCP, 420 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,759 who plays an integral role with what Denver does, Like you can't just 421 00:26:55,839 --> 00:27:00,440 replace him with a Christian Brown and it be okay. You can't just replaim 422 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,920 with a Peyton Watson or Reggie Jackson or Julian Strawther and it be okay. 423 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,160 What KCP does on both ends of the floor is so important for Denver in 424 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:15,359 providing and becoming the best starting unit in the NBA. Like it's there's levels 425 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,680 to kind of how to evaluate Denver, right, Like you've got Jokic, 426 00:27:18,759 --> 00:27:21,119 and you've got the Yokich Murray two man game, and then you've got the 427 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,960 Jokich Murray Gordon three man kind of weave that they run. But that stuff 428 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,759 doesn't work as well unless kcp's out there spacing and guarding and he takes a 429 00:27:30,799 --> 00:27:33,599 lot of pressure off of those guys on both ends of the floor as a 430 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,759 result. So I'm with you, like, there it can be different players, 431 00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:41,240 It really can be. And I think that CACP he like they call 432 00:27:41,319 --> 00:27:45,799 him first team when when you're you're looking at all the post game videos where 433 00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:49,599 he's getting the defensive player the game chain from Denver, Like he is a 434 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,279 guy who takes a lot of pride in his defense. That's a goal that 435 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:59,240 he's had for this year and Denver isn't the level of defense that they are 436 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,759 unless out there. Yeah, and I mean Gordon, I think is the 437 00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:07,200 right answer, especially post Bruce Brown, because of Gordon's rim pressure and the 438 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,839 playmaking that he brings, like that feels like it feels like a Bruce Brown 439 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,920 was still on the team, that the conversation could maybe swing more towards MPG 440 00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:18,400 and KCP on a lot of nights than it does right now. So I 441 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,079 do think that's the right answer. But I think KCP is probably gonna make 442 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,680 one of my all defense teams this year. I haven't gone I'm about to 443 00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:30,200 go through it for a podcast, but I haven't gone like nitty gritty. 444 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,279 I just the consistency he brings and the matchup difficulty. I mean, there's 445 00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:38,319 only eight players who are guarding the highest hutage player on the other team more 446 00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:42,160 often than KCP right now, and that's just that's a really tough job. 447 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,160 And this isn't necessarily part of the question. We've been injured like eighty times 448 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,319 this year. Feels like it's always something different. He's dealing with a finger 449 00:28:48,319 --> 00:28:53,359 injury right now, and so I where he goes championships follow unless it's Detroit 450 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,920 or Washington, obviously, But I he is such a winning player and his 451 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,000 impact on this team, it's I just wanted to show him a little bit 452 00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:03,440 of love because I think that there are and the stuff he does on offense, 453 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:04,839 I think is important where it's like someone who will get up threes on 454 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,079 a team that's not shooting a ton of them relative to the to the league 455 00:29:08,119 --> 00:29:11,599 average, and some of the stuff he can do like just from the in 456 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:17,400 between and off the ball. Of course, he's just he's universally scalable and 457 00:29:17,519 --> 00:29:22,160 universally impactful, and it's he is they need him to be, Like, 458 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,720 Okay, can we not have him be dealing with like eight different injuries at 459 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,480 once once we get to the postseason, because that would be that would be 460 00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:33,359 like huge for their playoff stock as well. It's true, like this Nuggets 461 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,880 team is not going to win a championship unless they're fully healthy. Like That's 462 00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:41,240 that I think is probably the key factor here. Like as much as much 463 00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:45,599 credit as you give Jokic, as much credit as you give Murray, it 464 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,920 is all of the elements playing together that gives them their edge, that gives 465 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,599 them the final juice that they need to get over the top against most of 466 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,920 these teams, like and other teams might beat them like that that might be 467 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,200 the case, but Casey he is one of those guys. He's one of 468 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,559 those examples that like he's had series where he shot forty five to fifty percent 469 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,839 from three, like between the Lakers and the Nuggets that have won series for 470 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,960 teams like he is that he could be a difference maker of that regard. 471 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,920 He could be the guy who guards the opposing team's best player on a consistent 472 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:21,680 basis. And he helped sort of shut the water off for Devin Booker in 473 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,119 Games five and six in the Western Conference semifinals, and like he's a guy 474 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,240 who can switch on to Jimmy Butler or like whether it's Lebron or not. 475 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,599 Not really a d but like he could do a lot. He spent most 476 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,519 of his time on Anthony Edwards in the the first round series, and he'll 477 00:30:36,519 --> 00:30:38,680 have to do the same thing in this next series as well. I'm sure 478 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,839 that those teams will match up. So it's gonna be fascinating. Man, 479 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:48,839 Like this team and like all of the construction around the starting unit or starting 480 00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:52,519 with Yokichen Murray but then building onto Gordon and Porter and KCP, like it 481 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,920 is all almost like a house of cards in a way, and it's why 482 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,720 I have some concerns obviously that that I think have been well documented. But 483 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,559 it's one of those things where KCP plays such a massive part in that people 484 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,960 don't fully understand or appreciate it, Like it's not just like he is not 485 00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:18,039 a replaceable player, and people should make sure to remember that. Speaking you 486 00:31:18,079 --> 00:31:21,319 mentioned forty five percent from three, I'm a serious question that's going to come 487 00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:25,480 off as probably a comical one. Why is Michael Porter Junior the most unpredictable 488 00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:29,200 forty six point nine percent shooter on wide open treason in the NBA history? 489 00:31:29,359 --> 00:31:33,640 NBA history? Excuse me, it's funny, man, that's a you would 490 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,359 think that as often as he makes those shots and as like automatic as he 491 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,160 usually looks making those shots, that there are times in the third and fourth 492 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,720 quarter and when it kind of comes down to it where you're like, man, 493 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,240 got that wide open shot that swung right the porter and it just bricks. 494 00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:51,640 Like sometimes it just happens, and like, I don't I don't really 495 00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:55,559 know fully how to explain it. But he has moments where he is clutch, 496 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,039 there's no doubt about it. But there are also ones where you're like, 497 00:31:57,079 --> 00:32:00,519 man, that's the one within the rhythm of the tea that you're like, 498 00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:02,119 Okay, this is one that you gotta hit, and he just bricks 499 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,519 it. So it's I don't know, like it is a funny question, 500 00:32:06,599 --> 00:32:09,480 but he's such a talented shooter. It's it's wild to think of him as 501 00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:13,480 like having a down year shooting wise this year and he is, like he's 502 00:32:14,599 --> 00:32:21,279 nine plus percent. Yeah, barrel over here. What's interesting about him? 503 00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:23,599 And I'm curious to your thoughts on his overall season, but every not everyone, 504 00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:27,319 but I think a lot of the talk is about if he's going to 505 00:32:27,359 --> 00:32:30,400 continue to develop, what does that look like on offense? And I think 506 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,000 he has made a lot of valuable concessions on the offensive end. I don't 507 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,359 think there are probably more limitations to his offensive game outside the context of the 508 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,519 Nuggets that people don't notice. There's not like a I hate to throw this 509 00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:44,359 word around there. There's not like a feel to his game where he's not 510 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:49,200 going to table set for everybody else or navigate these spaces on the ball that 511 00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:52,279 are gonna seem super intuitive. It feels like so much of his development over 512 00:32:52,319 --> 00:32:57,400 the past year plus has just come as like a defender, as a help 513 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,880 defender, as someone who's gonna be on the glass, and he really shines 514 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,039 through during the playoffs last year. So what have you just made of the 515 00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:07,920 continued development or progress growth, however you want to frame it of his game 516 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,200 this year. Yeah, you look through some of the numbers and you're like, 517 00:33:10,279 --> 00:33:14,759 man, it would be nice if that assist percentage was a higher than 518 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,759 six, Like, that would be that would be great, that would be 519 00:33:17,839 --> 00:33:22,519 that would be awesome. But I want to make this point clear about his 520 00:33:22,599 --> 00:33:25,200 offense that I think a lot of people have a lot of people call him 521 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,440 a selfish player. A lot of people call him a chucker. I don't 522 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:34,559 think that's true. I really don't. He has shown tendencies, especially lately 523 00:33:34,759 --> 00:33:37,720 over the last month or so, he's trying to pass man. He really 524 00:33:37,799 --> 00:33:42,799 is. He's trying to set the table for not just himself before his team. 525 00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:46,000 It's not just for Jokic, but for Aaron Gordon and for Jamal Murray 526 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,839 and and KCP and guys like that. He had a nice pastor Reggie Jackson 527 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,119 in the last game that ended up being a bucket. But like he has 528 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:58,920 these moments where you realize, Okay, if his career had gone a slightly 529 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,200 different route, where rather than kind of shrink his role in Denver, rather 530 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,319 than say, Okay, you're going to play a three and D role for 531 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,400 Denver. Dude, if he had kind of developed within a rebuilding organization and 532 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,440 been asked to be more of a playmaker for others, I think he would 533 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,639 have been. I really do. I think that that is still in him, 534 00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:20,280 and it's one of those things that Denver often tries to coax out of 535 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,079 him. It's just good basketball plays that happen more and more frequently, just 536 00:34:23,119 --> 00:34:27,159 as he gets more and more comfortable. You look at the numbers and you 537 00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,639 don't necessarily see it, but I do think that it is there. I 538 00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:32,880 think that there are going to be moments where he has Like last year it 539 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,599 was a big deal when he had like six assists in a playoff game, 540 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,119 Like it was a big deal. But how many playmaking opportunities do you really 541 00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:45,079 see Michael Porter ever having within Denver's offense, Like it's just always kind of 542 00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:47,719 the finisher on the perimeter in some of those, or the finisher at the 543 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,760 rim in a lot of those. I wonder if they start building in more 544 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,920 of those to sort of kind of coerce that out of his game a little 545 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,280 bit more, because I do think it's there, I really do, and 546 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,360 it would be valuable to try and coax it, even though I don't believe 547 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:07,880 it's necessarily there. You're no better than I would just in case this Jamal 548 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,119 Murray shinsplince thing becomes like an issue when there are Knights where you just don't 549 00:35:10,159 --> 00:35:13,599 have Jamal Murray. There will be at least two nights we know on the 550 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,760 one of the ends of the back the backs coming up. But if there's 551 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,480 more to have that additional you know, other than Gordon, and that's just 552 00:35:19,559 --> 00:35:22,559 kind of like that's where he kind of miss Bruce Brown is the like you 553 00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:27,360 have Reggie Jackson, like the pass dribble decision make type of guys. If 554 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,000 Michael Porter Junior has any layer of that to him, I mean one to 555 00:35:31,039 --> 00:35:34,360 have that at what is he like seven to five at this point, like 556 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,960 with his size, like then it's just like game over. But that would 557 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,599 be super useful of course, So it's it's funny we actually have a nice 558 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:45,360 sample size of this when Jamal Murray went down. This is actually secretly one 559 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,239 of the horrible things that happened for Denver in the twenty twenty one to twenty 560 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,440 two season where he played nine games and then went down and he had to 561 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,960 have a season and back surgery while Jamal Murray was gone, but the real 562 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,360 the previous year before that, he played eighteen games after Jamal Murray sat like 563 00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:06,800 after he was sidelined with the toward ACL towards the end of that season, 564 00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:09,360 average twenty three and a half points per game, one point six assists. 565 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,920 So nothing crazy, obviously, and like you want to see that happen more. 566 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,559 But I do think that there is a scalability to his game that he 567 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,800 kind of like a lot of these guys, and you always have to sacrifice 568 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,480 for a championship. That's that's one of those things. But there is more 569 00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:30,360 to him that I think you kind of you can you can coax it out 570 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,119 of it. So I wonder if that's in his future at some point, 571 00:36:34,159 --> 00:36:37,960 whether it's with the Nuggets or with another team. I wonder if that's in 572 00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:43,239 his future where he becomes more of a playmaker and more of a creator for 573 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,679 himself and others, And it starts to look a little bit more interesting. 574 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,880 He could be one of those players where maybe he just never leaves Denver. 575 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,320 But like, what would Peak Clay have looked like if he was tasked with 576 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,119 more and on we know what his assistan rate is and stuff, and we 577 00:36:57,119 --> 00:36:59,800 know what he looks like now, but just like peak Clay, the best 578 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,199 play toms and what would that have looked like if he was even like just 579 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,360 had to be any sort of creation where it was just like the way the 580 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,760 Warriors played, just based on playmaking. He was never more than like the 581 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:13,440 number four option, like in that sort of type of deal. So maybe 582 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,079 that's a Michael Porter junior just sort of what if can we riff on some 583 00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:21,079 of Denver's most important kiddos who are obviously going to be pretty crucial to whatever 584 00:37:21,119 --> 00:37:23,480 happens in the playoffs. Let's start with Christian Brown. Looks a lot better 585 00:37:23,519 --> 00:37:29,519 defensively lately. The hips are moving well in space on an on defense, 586 00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:32,079 so is the footwork? Now? What are you watching with him? Though? 587 00:37:32,159 --> 00:37:36,199 Like offensively, I think a lot of people have given him the benefit 588 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,360 of the doubt because of what he did in last year's playoffs, and that's 589 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:44,199 fair, but we talk about peaks and plunges. It's been like plunge plunge, 590 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,679 little peak plunge plung Like he's just been all over the place on offense 591 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:51,360 and not the best way possible this year yeah, Like that's that's one of 592 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,800 those things that when you missed with Brute without Bruce Brown, right, Like, 593 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:59,000 he's one of those consistent ten eleven point per game guys off the bench 594 00:37:59,039 --> 00:38:01,320 that you could always count on, and Christian hasn't really been that this year. 595 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,960 I don't think anybody fully expected him to develop into that, but I 596 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,239 expected a little bit more offensive developments from the offseason to now, and maybe 597 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,039 I shouldn't. He was a rookie coming off of a championship. He was 598 00:38:14,159 --> 00:38:16,639 vibing out for the entire time. I totally understand it, like do you 599 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:22,079 man, Like it's all good? But I wonder if there is another level 600 00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:27,280 for him to get to as a secondary creator off of dribble drives somebody who 601 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,079 is a little bit more definitive with that rather than tentative. One of my 602 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,840 pet peeves with him is he'll drive into nowhere and then pass it out with 603 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,320 five seconds left on the shot clock, and then somebody else has to create 604 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,599 something from thirty feet away from the basket. If he can avoid that and 605 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,079 just get to the rim and be a little bit more consistent on those finishes 606 00:38:47,079 --> 00:38:52,039 at the five to seven foot range, that would be so much more beneficial 607 00:38:52,039 --> 00:38:55,199 for Denver. Just being willing to take those making them at a reasonable clip 608 00:38:55,239 --> 00:39:00,639 would be a big deal. That is really what is the difference between him 609 00:39:00,679 --> 00:39:06,519 being a rotation caliber player and a borderline starter caliber player. It's just having 610 00:39:06,559 --> 00:39:10,599 that little extra. Teams aren't gonna respect you, all right, Go go 611 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,079 earn a bucket. Earn a tough bucket in a tough situation like he he 612 00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:20,519 could do do with more of that. Peyton Watson aimlessly fascinating. I've said 613 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,440 too many times, probably to a cliche on this podcast. Now, if 614 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:28,079 you put caffeine in bodily form, I feel like it would be Peyton Watson. 615 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,360 What have you sort of made of him in a larger role. There's 616 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,760 the defensive disruption, there's the rim pressure and sort of the phrenetic energy on 617 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,239 offense, he's up to what is he up to? Thirty four percent on 618 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:42,039 threes now, which if that's like the clip he's at, that becomes ultra 619 00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:44,920 huge for the Nuggets leading into the postseason. Are what are you sort of 620 00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:46,880 again thoughts on him and just what will you be watching most closely as we 621 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,119 head into the stretch run. I love Peyton man like I think he's he's 622 00:39:51,159 --> 00:39:53,880 one of those guys that you have both buddy, you have to be around 623 00:39:53,960 --> 00:40:00,440 him to fully understand, like just how locked in and dialed he is as 624 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,480 an like an individual and somebody who is a former five star recruit in California. 625 00:40:05,559 --> 00:40:07,440 He was the best player coming out of California his year. Like, 626 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,920 that's an incredible talent. Like, it's an incredible thing to think about. 627 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,559 Obviously lost out on some of the development and some of the playing time and 628 00:40:16,639 --> 00:40:21,800 some of the the shine over the course of the previous two years. Now 629 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,800 he's playing an integral role for Denver, and the more he shoots, the 630 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,800 more I'm kind of convinced he might just be a better shooter than I ever 631 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,760 thought he would be. Uh, some of that comes with confidence. But 632 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,880 he's got like a good stroke, he's got a he it looks good, 633 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,599 and he plays like he is a shooter. He plays like he is somebody 634 00:40:39,679 --> 00:40:44,800 who should be taking these shots. And like, the more he like if 635 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,760 he's if he's trustable with that, if he can make good decisions with the 636 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,519 ball in his hands, he's going to be a future starter. Like I 637 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,280 really do think that he's going to be one of those guys that you're you're 638 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,760 wondering, like, how did Denver get this guy? How did they replace 639 00:40:59,559 --> 00:41:04,559 X with Peyton Watson, who's like this, this unbelievably talented defensive player who 640 00:41:04,559 --> 00:41:07,440 can also handle the ball a little bit. It's wild to think about, 641 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:12,519 but I think he's on that trajectory the it felt like, and not all 642 00:41:12,519 --> 00:41:15,360 the percentages support this when we're talking about Julian Strauther. But if he never 643 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,400 gets injured, and Michael Malone kind of talked about that, him and Justin 644 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,280 Holliday when you're looking at a nine man rotation are kind of going to be 645 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,920 on the outside looking in there. What if is there a chance maybe that 646 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,679 he kind of comes back around, just because of the idea of him, 647 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,440 the three point volume, the movement shooting he is at. I think his 648 00:41:32,639 --> 00:41:36,760 overall three point clip is pretty low, but he's at thirty five plus percent 649 00:41:37,039 --> 00:41:39,440 on pull up three pointers, which is very valuable. And like the fact 650 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:44,079 that he has only hit like sub thirty two percent of his wide open threes. 651 00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:46,800 It's no this dude, Those will come. But what do you sort 652 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,920 of make of even if it's not this year, of what he can do 653 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,639 for this team or his ceiling within this rotation. Eventually, I'm I'm a 654 00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:59,920 little bit lower on him in general, just because I think it's more Terrent 655 00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:06,760 Ross like than it is like, Okay, a dynamic, unbelievable offensive shooter 656 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,320 who can do it off of movement and creation. Now, there are some 657 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,519 good things, don't get me wrong, and like I could be wrong about 658 00:42:12,559 --> 00:42:15,519 this, to be clear, but when you think about what Denver needs around 659 00:42:15,639 --> 00:42:20,519 a Yokichen a Murray, it's going to be hard for them to put too 660 00:42:20,679 --> 00:42:24,559 much into Julian Strather specifically, just because you've got these other guys who can 661 00:42:24,599 --> 00:42:30,000 switch and guard and defend and playmate and do these things connective wise around what 662 00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:34,679 you've already got as your foundation. I do think Strather could provide them with 663 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,880 a little bit of a burst off the bench, There's no doubt about that. 664 00:42:37,519 --> 00:42:40,000 But he's got to be more than that, in my opinion. There's 665 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:44,679 got to be more playmaking, and some of that just comes from opportunities and 666 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,039 reps that Denver just hasn't been able to provide. But I do think that 667 00:42:47,199 --> 00:42:51,960 I'll be watching him in Summer League strongly for the next year. I assume 668 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,719 he will play in Summer League next year. I want to see him go 669 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:58,400 the Desmond Bain route and just like learn how to handle, learn how to 670 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,880 create, and then like, because he has that in him, I believe, 671 00:43:01,159 --> 00:43:06,239 I really do think that he could be one of those guys that you 672 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,360 kind of change that development curve a little bit and you start to see something 673 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:13,000 really really special. I just think right now he's kind of in that narrow 674 00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:17,480 bench shooter role, and I'm not sure what that provides value wise for Denver. 675 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,639 So let's get into what got you in trouble. I know what some 676 00:43:22,679 --> 00:43:25,280 of your biggest concerns were or are for this team because I follow you on 677 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,559 Twitter, but also you talked about them more at length on the last Pickaxe 678 00:43:29,559 --> 00:43:34,159 and Roll of podcast. So what are what are your biggest concerns or what 679 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,519 were and like have any of them shifted based off how Denver has played coming 680 00:43:37,519 --> 00:43:40,159 out of the All Star break, which, by the way, as we're 681 00:43:40,159 --> 00:43:45,639 recording this, for us to shift any priors after three games would be a 682 00:43:45,679 --> 00:43:49,400 little ridiculous, Like for people that want you to like you know, want 683 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,559 your comeuppance because it's oh, like you need to apologize, like this is 684 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,480 it's been three games, like, let's chill, believe me, I've been 685 00:43:55,719 --> 00:44:00,239 half that same discussion. It's brutal. It's brutal these Denver streets. But 686 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:06,159 uh no, it's it's the interesting thing that leading into the trade deadline, 687 00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:09,280 I thought Denver needed another guy that they could trust. I thought that base. 688 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,599 So you've got the starters that you obviously trust. You've got Reggie Jackson, 689 00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:16,039 who's like, dude, do you really trust Reggie Jackson? Do you 690 00:44:16,119 --> 00:44:19,599 have? You have Christian Brown, who obviously you trust, but like, 691 00:44:19,639 --> 00:44:22,480 do you trust him to play the Bruce Brown role of last year? Then 692 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,760 you have Peyton Watson, who, like, do you trust him to do 693 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,679 more than what Jeff Green did last year for you? Maybe? I don't 694 00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,480 know. So Denver's got these guys, especially two young guys in Christian Brown 695 00:44:32,519 --> 00:44:37,840 and Peyton Watson, that they are putting so much pressure on, They're putting 696 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,639 so much stock into and say, you have to be ready for this moment. 697 00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:44,679 You have to be ready for everything that comes with it. And if 698 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,239 you are not ready, and then you're putting more pressure onto Reggie Jackson of 699 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,719 all people, then now you're just starting to say, Okay, Starters, 700 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,960 we got each. You gotta play you each forty two minutes, forty minutes, 701 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,239 forty two minutes, and that's just not a sustainable way to get through 702 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,119 a playoff series, Like you just can't do. That's for Denver, Like 703 00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:05,159 you need four of those. You need to get through four playoff series in 704 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,719 order to have the goals and meet the goals of what you're supposed to do. 705 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:13,000 So I thought that Denver needed another player, and clearly some people disagreed 706 00:45:13,039 --> 00:45:15,639 with me. I understand that, and like, look, people are going 707 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,599 to be pretty arrogant, especially coming off of a championship, And I fully 708 00:45:19,639 --> 00:45:23,079 acknowledged that Denver, and like those Nuggets fans, they might be right and 709 00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:27,920 I might be wrong, But I don't think it's crazy to have concerns. 710 00:45:28,119 --> 00:45:31,199 I really don't. When you put a whole bunch of stock into three bench 711 00:45:31,199 --> 00:45:35,039 players, not just one or like that, you have to put stock into 712 00:45:35,079 --> 00:45:37,519 all three of them and say you got to be at your best heading into 713 00:45:37,559 --> 00:45:43,280 this playoff series for a defending champion with as much pressure on you as possible. 714 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,880 That's just a tough ask, don't you think it is? Especially when 715 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,440 you have it. I know Christian Brown has won at every level. And 716 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,159 also Reggie Jackson has had some pretty like big playoffs. Mature. Yeah, 717 00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:57,480 but it's just like, at the end of the day, it's Reggie even 718 00:45:57,519 --> 00:45:59,280 you could have said it last year. At the end of the day it 719 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:05,639 was Bruce, but he brought I think an entire package that no player right 720 00:46:05,679 --> 00:46:10,079 now is equipped to replace everything or check every box, even their peak version. 721 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:15,039 Like if you're talking Christian Brown, Reggie Jackson, Peyton Watson, maybe 722 00:46:15,119 --> 00:46:17,880 if we're fast forwarding a couple of years, could it be Peyton Watson. 723 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,840 I don't know he'll ever have that sort of playmaking on ball, like decision 724 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,360 making element that Bruce trom brought, which is probably what they missed the most, 725 00:46:25,519 --> 00:46:30,400 was like the combination of the decision making and rim pressure Bruce Brown could 726 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,960 give you. And I think that's where the biggest concern lies. And I 727 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:37,719 don't think it's you know, I don't think it's taboo to have that concern. 728 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,519 They might just be so good it doesn't fucking matter. Or if all 729 00:46:40,559 --> 00:46:44,719 your starters are healthy, maybe don't need to play them forty plus minutes because 730 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,400 you're still winning these games by healthy margins. Because it kind of comes back 731 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:52,639 to there are people that tried to not diminish but or discredit, but sort 732 00:46:52,639 --> 00:46:53,480 of say, well, like, look at who the Nuggets were able to 733 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:57,639 pull and didn't face any great teams last year. And it's no, there 734 00:46:57,639 --> 00:47:00,119 were no great teams last year except the Nugget, and the Nuggets did what 735 00:47:00,159 --> 00:47:05,119 great teams do and they truck the ever living shit out of most of those 736 00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:09,360 teams. So I think your concern is fair because even from I know again, 737 00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:14,400 they just watched Christian Brown play really well in the playoffs. But to 738 00:47:14,519 --> 00:47:17,119 have to all of a sudden say and answer this, like last year we 739 00:47:17,159 --> 00:47:21,440 were able to say, who's the most important non starter on the team? 740 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,719 Bruce Brown? Done? Move on. Now I ask you this question, 741 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,599 who is the most important non starter on the team heading it into the playoffs? 742 00:47:29,639 --> 00:47:31,280 I don't know that the answer is. I'm sure you have one. 743 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,119 I want to hear it. I just from my perspective, I don't think 744 00:47:35,199 --> 00:47:37,519 the answer is is cut and dry, and anyone who's making it cut and 745 00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:43,239 dry, I still don't know that that answer then is super comfortable. My 746 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:49,880 answer is all of them. And that's the problem because last year Denver and 747 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,079 so I actually use this meme with David Brandon, who does okay see coverage. 748 00:47:54,039 --> 00:47:58,480 They are the flex tape guy, like Bruce Brown was the flex tape 749 00:47:58,519 --> 00:48:00,280 guy where you're like, hey, you get any hole in your lineup, 750 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:07,079 you got any problems, bail Bruce Brown, that's what you do. And 751 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,440 so that's that's Jamal Murray's out. And you need a backup point guard that's 752 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:14,559 Cacp's out. You need another perimeter defender, that's Michael Porter. You need 753 00:48:14,559 --> 00:48:16,679 somebody who's a little bit more defensive minded, Bruce Brown. There you go. 754 00:48:17,079 --> 00:48:21,800 And so they don't have that this year, and they're trying to piece 755 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,360 it together with three different players, and Reggie Jackson, Christian Brown and Bruce 756 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:29,480 Brown and Peyton Watson. Excuse me, All three of those guys have different 757 00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:31,239 skill sets. All three of those guys do things that are different and that 758 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:37,000 are necessary and helpful. If you need more shooting and scoring and dynamic creation, 759 00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:42,880 Reggie Jackson's probably your option. If you need more defense and stability, 760 00:48:43,199 --> 00:48:47,280 Christian Brown is your option. If you need more athleticism and versatility, then 761 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,599 Peyton Watson's probably your guy. But you're gonna need all of those things, 762 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,320 and you probably need another guy, and you probably need some more size that 763 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:59,599 they don't really have unless you believe in Zeke Naji. And they probably need 764 00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:02,559 a shoot that they don't really have unless you trust Julian Strawther. And so 765 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:07,360 I come to this and I'm like, man, you kind of need all 766 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,119 of those guys to hit because if they don't, then you're just putting so 767 00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:14,840 much pressure on the top level talent to be out there to do the things 768 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,559 that they need to do. And like, look, are you gonna need 769 00:49:16,679 --> 00:49:20,960 Jokic to be plus fifteen every game because in the minutes that he's not out 770 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,679 there, they're minus fourteen. I don't know. And so that is a 771 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:29,559 stressful thing man to If you're the steward of Nikolaokic's prime and you think that 772 00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:31,880 he's that dude, you want to give him the best possible roster and the 773 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,599 best possible candidates to help him get to that place. And I just I 774 00:49:36,679 --> 00:49:40,000 don't think that they did it. It might not matter, it might not 775 00:49:40,079 --> 00:49:44,159 matter. And they're trying to do a tricky thing where they're no one really 776 00:49:44,159 --> 00:49:45,599 talks about the two timelines when it comes to them, but they're trying to 777 00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:50,679 set themselves up so that it's we can extend this title window because those are 778 00:49:50,679 --> 00:49:52,599 so fleeting in the league. When people talk about why, Okay, say 779 00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:54,920 didn't need to make a big trade, and maybe they didn't, but it's 780 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,679 like they're going to run the league for the next seven to ten years. 781 00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:00,760 They might just because they have so much draft equity to keep this thing rolling. 782 00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:05,920 But we just see these cores break up. Things happen, injuries happen, 783 00:50:06,039 --> 00:50:09,000 free agency, trade requests happen, other teams happen. I mean, 784 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,960 Brooklyn seemed like a championship inevitability at one point, and look how quickly that 785 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,599 thing came undone. And so the Nuggets are trying to build something sustainable, 786 00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:21,159 which is commendable. I just think there's risk there. As you said, 787 00:50:21,199 --> 00:50:24,239 it might not matter if it ends up mattering. I do think what's a 788 00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:29,079 little valuable is like they're not beyond the point of like, Okay, well, 789 00:50:29,079 --> 00:50:31,880 if this isn't gonna work, we can still shift to prioritize this Nikola 790 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:37,920 Jokic window rather than the second act of Nikola Jokic's title. No. I 791 00:50:37,079 --> 00:50:40,519 just my whole thing is and I think I feel this way because they've been 792 00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,400 they haven't been as healthy this year as last year, it feels like, 793 00:50:44,599 --> 00:50:51,119 at least anecdotally. But I just watched them and because they're top five are 794 00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:53,400 so good that their top five, their starting life has a better net rating 795 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,559 this year than it did last year. And that's just weird to say, 796 00:50:57,639 --> 00:51:00,480 because the West is objectively tougher this year than it was last year. And 797 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:06,159 that's why I can't I respect what they're doing. I can't bring myself to 798 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,039 care about it costing them a title because I don't think it will. They 799 00:51:08,039 --> 00:51:13,039 are my title pick, but I don't think it's unfair to discuss it like 800 00:51:13,039 --> 00:51:16,360 they're they're actively taking a risk here. I don't know what the alternative path 801 00:51:16,519 --> 00:51:20,719 was, though, and that's the that's the that's the other thing. They 802 00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,320 couldn't keep Bruce Brown. That just wasn't financially possible. And I don't know 803 00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,440 what moves would have been out there, like who could they have got at 804 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,559 the trade deadline that would have made you feel I'm not asking you specifically, 805 00:51:30,639 --> 00:51:35,280 this is just hypothetical. I didn't see any move, any buyout guy, 806 00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,599 Like maybe you felt like, oh, if Thattius Young would have went to 807 00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:40,360 Denver and maybe you offset some of those Aaron Gordon, like small ball five 808 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,960 minutes, or try and play those two together, like if you would rather 809 00:51:45,039 --> 00:51:49,800 play Peyton Watson more and give Zeke Nauga chance than age fifty eight Thattius Young. 810 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,159 I'm not gonna fault you for trying that. And so I think that's 811 00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:59,320 maybe why I feel not so strongly about against or why don't feel more strongly 812 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,960 about the risk involved here because I don't know what the other pass forward were, 813 00:52:02,079 --> 00:52:06,119 because even if you wanted to make a move that nudged the needle, 814 00:52:06,559 --> 00:52:08,199 they just didn't, like it would have cost you one of these young guys. 815 00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,039 And then when you got into salary matching, like they don't just have 816 00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,840 dispensable salary fillers. The Ike Nagy's the closest they're going to get to that 817 00:52:15,119 --> 00:52:20,519 next year when his extension kicks in. So I think that's an element as 818 00:52:20,559 --> 00:52:22,320 well. Maybe that's why some people push back on it. I still think 819 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:27,280 everything you're saying, I just one thousand percent agree with. Yeah, like 820 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,320 you just you want to maximize your window, right, you want to maximize 821 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,920 your opportunities to be the best team that you can be when the time comes, 822 00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,719 And so there are three guys that I kind of had in mind with 823 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,239 this discussion. Two were buyout guys. One was Daniel Gallinari, the other 824 00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,800 was Delon Wright, both guys that have been picked up and brought onto Eastern 825 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:50,199 Conference powers that can really help those teams. The other's Andre Drummond, who, 826 00:52:50,199 --> 00:52:52,360 like you, needed three second round picks in order to get him. 827 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:58,800 Apparently Denver tried that last year with Thomas Bryant and it didn't work. They 828 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:04,000 really did, so I don't want to sit here and say that that would 829 00:53:04,039 --> 00:53:07,440 have been perfect, but I do think that trying is probably the right course 830 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:13,719 of action, especially because Denver's got guys like DeAndre Jordan of lack of chanchar 831 00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,639 who's not going to be healthy and ready to go. They've got a Hunter 832 00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:20,960 Tyson and Jail and Pickett under like contracts from full time contracts for the team. 833 00:53:21,199 --> 00:53:22,440 You just run out of bodies that you feel like you can trust and 834 00:53:22,519 --> 00:53:29,320 play, and like, I just never want to approach a playoff situation like 835 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,119 that and like have two hands tied behind my back, you know, Like 836 00:53:31,159 --> 00:53:36,000 that's that's one of those things where if it works out, great, because 837 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,239 that's that's kind of the thing. That's hiding under all of this is the 838 00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:44,920 second apron, and like the super tax apron is the reason why Denver is 839 00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,239 going this direction because they're not going to be able to add anybody next year, 840 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:51,440 like they're not going to have the taxpayer mL because they just they think 841 00:53:51,519 --> 00:53:52,719 they won't be able to add a guy like Bruce Brown in the future. 842 00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:59,360 It's because they traded someone arguably and or lost because KCP has that player option. 843 00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:02,559 Yeah, exactly, and so like that's that's not exactly stellar either. 844 00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:08,239 So you're you're not feeling you're not feeling too good about the actual external player 845 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,719 additions that they can make other than one draft pick that they have in twenty 846 00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,440 two, like they've got twenty twenty four first, so they're going to keep 847 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,840 trying to draft and develop and hopefully some of these guys that they've drafted hit. 848 00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,480 But it is a it is slim pickens out there for Denver. Uh 849 00:54:22,639 --> 00:54:27,760 del I tend to try and deemphasize the addition of buyout guys and how much 850 00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,000 they matter. Delon Wright would have been absolutely perfect for this team though. 851 00:54:30,599 --> 00:54:38,639 So my next question for you on this team is what what is some of 852 00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:42,840 the toughest. Matt Well, actually, let's start here. How important is 853 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,559 playoff seeding to them? Do you think I think that they would like to 854 00:54:46,599 --> 00:54:50,800 avoid the four seed. I think that they like if if they have a 855 00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,039 choice, then they'd probably want to be at least top three, because hypothetically, 856 00:54:54,119 --> 00:54:58,719 if you're a three seed and both the four seed and the three seed 857 00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:00,239 win against the one and two, then if you're a three seed, then 858 00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,800 you've got home court advantage in a Western Conference finals. But that's about as 859 00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,320 much as they really care about. They don't necessarily need to get up to 860 00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:12,440 the two or the one. I think that they'd prefer it. I think 861 00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,480 that that's something that they will try to do within their means. But they're 862 00:55:15,519 --> 00:55:19,679 not going to go out of their way in order to go for a specific 863 00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:22,159 number, in order to go for a specific seed. I think that they're 864 00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:25,960 going to try to exceed last year's number of wins and let that be where 865 00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:30,159 it may because last year, if if they if you get fifty five wins, 866 00:55:30,199 --> 00:55:31,760 this year, it might be a four seed. Honestly might because of 867 00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:36,920 the way that they all these teams are playing right now, and that might 868 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:38,840 be fine. Like they can they could be a good quality of a fifty 869 00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,559 five win team and win a championship even from a three seat or a four 870 00:55:42,599 --> 00:55:45,360 seed. And by the way, look they're only as we're recording this, 871 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:46,960 they're two losses out of first place in the worst they coul absolutely finish with 872 00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:51,159 the best record in the West. Again, I do think it's semi important 873 00:55:51,599 --> 00:55:54,360 to finish with a top three seed because it increases the chances that you get, 874 00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:59,599 if you don't want to say easy, a very manageable first round matchup. 875 00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:01,800 And that's just important when you're looking at because no matter where you are 876 00:56:02,119 --> 00:56:06,320 second round, conference finals, NBA finals, that shit's gonna hurt, that's 877 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,519 gonna be tough. You just want to limit the number of games that you 878 00:56:08,599 --> 00:56:12,800 play early, right, Like, you don't want to play six or seven 879 00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,679 games in every single round because you'll just be tired out by the end of 880 00:56:15,679 --> 00:56:17,760 it. One of the sneaky things for Denver last year they played five games 881 00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,440 in the first round, six games in the second round, four games in 882 00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,559 the third round, and five games in the in the conference or in the 883 00:56:24,639 --> 00:56:30,000 NBA played the third round that they played some team in Los Angeles, the 884 00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:34,760 most competitive sweep in NBA and the history for them. I will say this 885 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,760 is not necessarily like it is Nuggets related, but it feels weird that the 886 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:43,800 one in the two seed have the least amount of time to prepare for their 887 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,320 playoff matchups because of how the play. And so it's almost like, could 888 00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:51,000 the three seed be like the super comfy level where it's okay, you know 889 00:56:51,039 --> 00:56:53,920 you're gonna have home court advantage through the first round and you've secured like the 890 00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:58,960 sixth matchup, which you can then prepare for while the playing is happening, 891 00:56:59,159 --> 00:57:01,400 And it's probably not like if it ends up being Phoenix in the sixth seed 892 00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:05,320 or Luca, like, yeah, that kind of sucks. So would you 893 00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,440 prefer this version of the Warriors the Lakers whoever comes out of the play in 894 00:57:08,199 --> 00:57:10,559 But that's a weird function of the play in tournament, by the way, 895 00:57:10,599 --> 00:57:14,599 And I don't know that I'm sure people have talked about it. I haven't 896 00:57:14,599 --> 00:57:16,079 heard a ton of people talk about it though, where it's oh, you 897 00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:20,800 have the best record in the Western Conference, your reward or even the second 898 00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:22,840 best record is your reward is not really knowing who you're gonna play in the 899 00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:28,079 first round until like two days before it's starts. Congratulations on your thirty six 900 00:57:28,119 --> 00:57:31,880 hour window of preparations. The Nuggets need to prioritize the one or the three 901 00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,360 seed. Those are the because it's like, here's the one, okay, 902 00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,280 you know that first playing team gets in and then it's we prepare from there. 903 00:57:38,239 --> 00:57:42,960 I care the two seed, though, they do get like four days 904 00:57:43,239 --> 00:57:47,199 because you get that seven eight matchup in the play in, then that's solved 905 00:57:47,239 --> 00:57:50,400 and you figure out, Okay, who's gonna face the two seed at that 906 00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,119 point, like that's that's enough time, only two options where it's like okay 907 00:57:53,199 --> 00:57:55,760 as opposed to so, but still it's just a weird quirk, right, 908 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,480 like the three seed has all this time to prepare in the one and the 909 00:57:59,519 --> 00:58:02,000 two technical we have. Let look, they are gonna finish first. Though 910 00:58:02,039 --> 00:58:05,719 the Nicola Jokics text message was sent, I don't know that I would have 911 00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,840 predicted it before the text message, but and I would pay ungodly amounts of 912 00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:12,840 money to know what the contents of that text message said. Yeah, oh 913 00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,840 yeah, So looking into the playoffs, I don't we don't need to get 914 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:20,920 into specific when they could meet them. Are there any matchups for the Nuggets 915 00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:27,000 that you find either or both particularly compelling or could be very difficult for them. 916 00:58:27,559 --> 00:58:31,920 Compelling specifically would be Dallas. That's one where you haven't seen yokicen Luca 917 00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:37,559 go back and forth. Luca's like the one guy in the playoffs this year 918 00:58:37,599 --> 00:58:39,880 where you could realistically say, oh, yeah, he could challenge for the 919 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:43,960 best player on the series, like he really could with the way that he 920 00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,480 plays. I don't think you could really say that about anybody else other than 921 00:58:46,519 --> 00:58:51,159 maybe Shay. I guess maybe Kawhi, but like, I'm not really cool 922 00:58:51,519 --> 00:58:54,400 Kawhi. For sure. I would go back and forth on Shay just because 923 00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:59,800 of how Jokic is so could just dissect you with his passing and Shay just 924 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,440 outside of his drives is not going to set up to that. And I 925 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:07,599 love Sha, but yeah, like it's but it's it's fascinating to think about. 926 00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:12,480 Like those will be tough matchups in their individual right, but I like 927 00:59:12,559 --> 00:59:15,280 the idea of the Luca versus Jokich dynamic and those guys kind of bringing it 928 00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:20,679 out of each other the best possible performances that they could have. Like I 929 00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:24,000 I think that the talent that Dallas has now on the offensive end is going 930 00:59:24,039 --> 00:59:28,800 to be tough to stop for obvious reasons. And they've decided to play defense 931 00:59:29,239 --> 00:59:30,760 ever since the trade deadline, too, which is look at that, look 932 00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:35,119 at that. That's a big deal. I'm prepared to eat a lot of 933 00:59:35,159 --> 00:59:38,079 shit on my PJ. Washington trade thoughts. Let's just I don't think you're 934 00:59:38,079 --> 00:59:43,280 gonna have to for what it's worth. Yeah, like that'll it'll be interesting. 935 00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,000 Like I think the Dallas will be a tough out. I don't care 936 00:59:46,039 --> 00:59:51,079 about the Warriors of the Lakers, to be frank like, they're they're there. 937 00:59:51,119 --> 00:59:53,079 It is what it is. Like I would have cared about the Warriors 938 00:59:53,079 --> 00:59:57,239 a little bit until I just saw what Nicola Yokich did to Draymond Green. 939 00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,840 And that's not even a function of Draymond you stud played. He was spectacular 940 01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:05,280 defense that came to Kole Jokic. Is just I think it's Adam Ota says 941 01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,880 this all the time. Perfect offense beats perfect defense. Yeah, there's no 942 01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:12,960 doubt about it, and Jokic will. We'll have that in several of these 943 01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,880 matchups, whether it's against Draymond, whether it's against like frankly, even somebody 944 01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:21,280 like Rudy Gobert. Although that's probably the one that you got to circle back 945 01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,320 to and say, yeah, the Timberwolves, they are the toughest possible matchup 946 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:30,719 from a personnel standpoint for Denver because they've got this athletic shooting guard who can 947 01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:32,440 get to where he wants on the floor and is like, if he shoots 948 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:37,000 like Jordan in the playoffs, then like Anthony Edwards, another guy where it's 949 01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:40,159 like his value might skyrocket in the playoffs relative to the regular season. Who 950 01:00:40,199 --> 01:00:45,920 knows like it's it's those pieces of development, like they come faster than what 951 01:00:46,039 --> 01:00:50,719 people really expect, so he could like just watch out for it obviously, 952 01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:55,719 folks. But him being that good Rudy Gobert, Karl Anthony Towns, nas 953 01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,960 Reed kind of being a trio of bigs that you can throw at Yoki, 954 01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:05,079 which especially Gobert, that's a big one to watch. And then Jada McDaniel's 955 01:01:05,119 --> 01:01:08,800 on ball and and Niki Alexander Walker on ball against Jamal Murray by the way, 956 01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,199 that is going to be tough for the listeners at home. I don't 957 01:01:12,199 --> 01:01:15,559 know if he'll have the playing time, but Nah might need some all defense 958 01:01:15,559 --> 01:01:17,280 consideration, which is why he has been really good this year. Sorry, 959 01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:22,440 good random, No, No, you're you're You're right, because how do 960 01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,760 you stop Denver's offense. You have to be able to play at two on 961 01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:29,559 two, you have to be able to rotate behind it really effectively, and 962 01:01:29,639 --> 01:01:32,320 you've got to have guys that are dialed in and are long and athletic and 963 01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:37,360 physical and versatile. And they have that. They have that in spades with 964 01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:39,880 their personnel for sure. So that's one that I've been watching that I've I've 965 01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:45,199 identified Denver plays Minnesota three times over the course of the rest of the regular 966 01:01:45,239 --> 01:01:50,360 season, so they only face them once in the fifth game of the regular 967 01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:52,360 season. So I want to see what those matchups look like now. I 968 01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:57,519 want to see what they what they kind of envision and whether Jada McDaniels is 969 01:01:57,559 --> 01:02:00,800 going to give constant pressure to Jamal Murray or somebody like that. That'll be 970 01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:06,199 fascinating to watch, and those matchups can actually inform the play I don't I 971 01:02:06,639 --> 01:02:08,920 like the middle of the season matchups, the early season matchups. I never 972 01:02:09,079 --> 01:02:13,679 go back and look at those really to try and do playoff previews or breakdowns 973 01:02:13,719 --> 01:02:16,760 because I just feel like so much changes. It's the situations like this where 974 01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:20,639 it's like you said, in the stretch run they played Minnesota three times. 975 01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,679 Those might inform and instruct how the series unfolds, and so those are big 976 01:02:23,679 --> 01:02:27,960 games. I was surprised you said Dallas, they don't particularly concern me. 977 01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:31,800 It's Minnesota. I feel like while Denver can very much handle Okay, see, 978 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:37,480 they can do some stuff with just their lineups when you're gonna play smaller 979 01:02:37,519 --> 01:02:40,360 that I think in their drive game, getting like go go in there could 980 01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:44,599 cause them problems. But I just look at how they don't really have anyone 981 01:02:44,599 --> 01:02:50,320 physical enough to like even Impede Nicole Jokic. So the Timberolves are definitely my 982 01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,519 top options. And then I don't want to say this because it feels wrong, 983 01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:57,400 but if the Clippers are fully healthy, just the level of basketball they've 984 01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,519 played, it does feel like we could see this unfold differently than we've seen 985 01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:02,760 in all the matchups past. I know the Clippers just beat them, that 986 01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:07,679 game was super important to them, But the caveat there is I think you 987 01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,440 make the case that James Harden is their most important playoff player when you look 988 01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:15,400 at what defenses are gonna do and the passing breakdowns that we've seen from the 989 01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:19,400 Clippers in previous postseasons. And again the problem with that is the Clippers have 990 01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,440 also just never been fully healthy since basically the dawn of time, sure in 991 01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,320 the postseasons, and you can't trust James Harden in the playoff. That is 992 01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:29,079 just that's proven fact right now. And so that's why I don't want to 993 01:03:29,119 --> 01:03:31,239 dismiss everyone else in the West, just say it's really only the Timberwolves that 994 01:03:31,599 --> 01:03:36,000 if I'm the Nuggets, I kind of give like a second or third pause 995 01:03:36,039 --> 01:03:38,760 to but the Clippers might be the number two team for me, which feels 996 01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:44,119 so incorrect just by me voicing it aloud. I'm glad this is a safe 997 01:03:44,119 --> 01:03:46,960 space because I just feel so wrong saying I think. I mean, look, 998 01:03:47,079 --> 01:03:50,719 the last time that Jokic faced the Clippers, he went nine to thirty 999 01:03:50,719 --> 01:03:53,400 two from the field, So there's something to it. And like, if 1000 01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:57,159 they can slow him down in any way, shape or form, then that's 1001 01:03:57,199 --> 01:04:00,440 a little bit different. Now. Was Jokic at his most far focused at 1002 01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,320 that point? Probably not. Was he was he going out with a Visa 1003 01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:08,519 zubox and just vibing. Probably than people like that's like a big burly dude 1004 01:04:08,559 --> 01:04:11,960 who moves his feet. Yeah, and so like he's gonna give Yokic more 1005 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,559 problems than chet Holmgren will because what chet Holmgren does isn't going to scale to 1006 01:04:16,159 --> 01:04:19,599 the perimeter as much. And if you do get in those back down situations 1007 01:04:19,599 --> 01:04:23,760 with Jokic, like he's just not gonna have the level of phys account. 1008 01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,159 I mean, he has the lank and the shot blocking chops, no doubt. 1009 01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:30,400 It's the it's whether Yokich is going to be dialed in on those shots 1010 01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:33,280 that are a little bit tougher for him. Like every shot is tough that 1011 01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,960 he takes for the most part, but there are certain ones that when he 1012 01:04:38,039 --> 01:04:42,320 gets into the body of somebody else, he's got to finish a an off 1013 01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:46,920 balance eight foot hook shot or a turnaround fade away whatever it ends up being. 1014 01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,800 Like, if he hits those, then they'll win the series. I 1015 01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:53,920 think that with their defense, Like the Clippers have a great offense, there's 1016 01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:57,199 no doubt about it. They have a nice mix and a lot of different 1017 01:04:57,199 --> 01:05:00,960 players that can initiate. Denver's defense is just going to be so dialed for 1018 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,159 that series, though They're not going to be able to generate as many open 1019 01:05:03,159 --> 01:05:08,000 shots. The Clippers do as they do in some of these other matchups because 1020 01:05:08,079 --> 01:05:11,800 Denver can mix and match some of these and Jokic will just be better, 1021 01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:15,719 Like he'll be better in a series like that against that team. I will 1022 01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:17,239 say I kind of want to see them play Phoenix just because I feel like 1023 01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:21,400 Jokic will average a forty point triple double going up against nurk I think that 1024 01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:25,760 would be the I think that's what ends up happening. That's your peak that 1025 01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,239 that would be. That would be awesome. There's there's no love lost between 1026 01:05:30,199 --> 01:05:32,639 Nurkic and the Nuggets. There's there's no doubt about that. I promise. 1027 01:05:32,719 --> 01:05:38,000 I'm not trying to add any tousicity to this discussion. But what do you 1028 01:05:38,039 --> 01:05:41,199 make of the MVP race so far? Where Nicole Jokic is still favored and 1029 01:05:41,239 --> 01:05:44,280 I think he did He's still the betting favorite. He finished the top Tim 1030 01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:48,599 bond Temps's last straw poll, but there has been a ground swell for not 1031 01:05:48,719 --> 01:05:53,159 just Shay, but also Luca and even Giannis a little bit. I think 1032 01:05:53,159 --> 01:05:57,000 those are the four guys that the have you heard man Jason Tatum, He's 1033 01:05:57,079 --> 01:06:00,400 best probably on the best team. Yeah, I don't know all right moving 1034 01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:03,440 right on they paying a great player. I just anyway, moving right along 1035 01:06:03,519 --> 01:06:08,679 off that one. What are you do you think Nicola Okich is kind of 1036 01:06:08,719 --> 01:06:11,719 like the gap is just especially now, is like a little bit too large? 1037 01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:14,239 Or do you look at any of the other cases and say, oh, 1038 01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:17,360 this guy has like a legitimate case to win this award over Jokic this 1039 01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:21,639 season. I think SGA has a legitimate case. Like think about where think 1040 01:06:21,639 --> 01:06:27,360 about where Okac was projected to be and what they have done instead, Like 1041 01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,079 people look back on that and there there's a lot of revisionist history on that. 1042 01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:33,440 I thought that Okac was gonna win about forty to forty five games, 1043 01:06:33,559 --> 01:06:36,800 be in that range. I think they've already crossed that threshold. Like they 1044 01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:42,000 are so good and SGA is so so good on both ends of the floor, 1045 01:06:42,199 --> 01:06:45,119 and that really does matter. Like I know a lot of people will 1046 01:06:45,159 --> 01:06:48,400 have like different criticisms of Jokic, Like I don't think his defense is as 1047 01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:54,280 good as SGA's defense, which is probably where that's where like some of the 1048 01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:58,639 gaps will be held there. But with what SGA does to carry that team, 1049 01:06:58,679 --> 01:07:00,519 he's clearly their best player. He's clearly a guy that they can trust 1050 01:07:00,559 --> 01:07:03,000 on both ends of the floor and at the end of the game. I 1051 01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:08,880 think he's somebody that would absolutely factor into this race, especially at the top 1052 01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:12,079 of the West. If they were to win the Western Conference in the regular 1053 01:07:12,119 --> 01:07:14,880 season, that would bear a lot of fruit for a lot of people with 1054 01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:19,800 Yannis like it has been for whatever reason, Bucks fans are like nuggets ops 1055 01:07:20,079 --> 01:07:24,280 at this point. I don't know where that happened, Like, like, 1056 01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:27,360 what what happened? Like these these two were supposed to be, like, 1057 01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:31,079 let's go like this is this is the United Front against Joel Embiid. Was 1058 01:07:31,119 --> 01:07:34,360 the yannesty stands and Jokic stamp. That was what was supposed to happen. 1059 01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:39,039 It has happened in an opposite way, and I don't really understand it. 1060 01:07:39,119 --> 01:07:44,239 But Jannis doesn't have a great case, Like, oh, I don't think 1061 01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:46,239 that he like these these numbers are great, Don't don't get me wrong. 1062 01:07:46,239 --> 01:07:50,079 The numbers individually are great, But there is too much going on around that 1063 01:07:50,159 --> 01:07:55,880 team to really like. So much of it has just been very, very 1064 01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:59,639 odd, And there's a lot of defensive impact stuff that I can break up 1065 01:07:59,639 --> 01:08:02,639 with Yan that everybody just assumes his defensive impact is amazing. It's awesome, 1066 01:08:02,639 --> 01:08:06,320 it's wonderful, But I just I don't see it a lot of the time 1067 01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:10,360 with like so many of their line of sprook, Lopez is the guy that's 1068 01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:13,480 really driving a lot of their success, is the primary rim protector, the 1069 01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:16,159 guy who's walling off the paint, and I've seen it against Denver specifically, 1070 01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:21,239 Like I think that Giannis is a distant fourth. Personally, I think that 1071 01:08:21,359 --> 01:08:25,800 Luca has passed him with the way that he's done things individually. He's been 1072 01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:30,560 great, and the burden that Luca has to carry often given that Kyrie has 1073 01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:34,479 missed so many games, it has been very noticeable. But I just think 1074 01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:39,640 that Luca's numbers are better than Yanni's. I think that Shay has a great 1075 01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:43,239 team case and a great individual defense case. But I think that Joka is 1076 01:08:43,279 --> 01:08:45,880 still the MVP. I really do, and he's going to be at the 1077 01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,760 center of it for most people until he loses track of it in mid March, 1078 01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:53,640 where he's like, you know what I'm getting, there's too much MVP 1079 01:08:53,720 --> 01:08:57,039 buzz. Let me put up a six to six and tell in twelve game 1080 01:08:57,159 --> 01:09:00,720 or something like that. I probably a little bit higher on the honest's case 1081 01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:03,119 to you just looking at the numbers and what he can still do defensively. 1082 01:09:03,159 --> 01:09:06,840 But I do agree that Shay feels like the biggest threat right now. Yolkic 1083 01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:11,720 is my MVP pick at the moment. Still, I do wonder you mentioned 1084 01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:15,600 this the late season stretch and Shay his case might end up being if he's 1085 01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:20,399 gonna be invested in getting that award and Yokic isn't as invested in getting that, 1086 01:09:20,399 --> 01:09:23,600 that might be what sways it. But I do think Yokich is the 1087 01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:27,359 MVP as of now. He's Ryan. It's just clearly the best player by 1088 01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:30,640 the way, like there's to me, it's hard for me to go against 1089 01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:34,640 that too much, and that if their cases are individually similar, then like 1090 01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:40,239 it's it's fair to have Yokic as the guy personally. Ryan, This was 1091 01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:43,000 great. Thank you for giving me so much of your time. Are you 1092 01:09:43,039 --> 01:09:45,239 able just to tell our listeners where they can find you in all the fantastic 1093 01:09:45,319 --> 01:09:49,000 work that you do. Yeah, absolutely, you can find me at NBA 1094 01:09:49,119 --> 01:09:54,079 Blackburn, on Twitter x whatever you want to call it. I do writing 1095 01:09:54,119 --> 01:09:59,840 four Mile High Sports covering the Denver Nuggets, and if you're interested in general 1096 01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,960 stuff, on YouTube. Then I do a podcast called The Alleyup, which 1097 01:10:03,239 --> 01:10:05,560 had a little bit of a hiatus lately, but we'll try to get that 1098 01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:09,359 back on track, so make sure to be on the lookout for it. 1099 01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:12,479 Yes, definitely check it out, and especially the work he's doing for Mile 1100 01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:15,399 High Sports as well. Ryan, thank you so much. Once again, 1101 01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,600 rest assured I will be pesturing you again down the line. Thank you, sir,