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Hello everybody, and welcome to another
episode of Modern Outdoor Survival. And this

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time we have slightly poor audio quality
than normal because we're in a cottage somewhere

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in the western Highlands of Scotland,
and I didn't want to bring the whole

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audio kit with me, so I'm
afraid you're going to have to make do

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with a combination of phones and a
small pocket recording device thing and sat around

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the table with me. I have
three friends and we've just come back from

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a place called Neudart, which is
a peninsula which is about well, it's

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an hour away from here to get
to where the boat picks you up from,

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and then it's another half hour on
the boat to the peninsula. It

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is attached to the British mainland,
but there are antony roads there and once

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you leave the village where the boat
drops you off, I think it's another

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twenty miles before you hit the nearest
road. So we went there for a

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bit of an excursion, some stomping
around in the mountains. It was a

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golden opportunity allowed by the gracious generosity
of Dave, whose work managed to get

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a holy cottage booked for the right
place at the right time with some extra

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days and we could use it as
a base to move up from. And

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then some things came together and we
ended up here. So in the spirit

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of the podcast, I wanted to
talk about or go through, some of

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the things you learned from the trip, some of the decisions you made,

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some of the kit you took,
some of the root choices you made,

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and what you think the audience can
learn from that, because I think,

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as we say, a lot,
you learn more from the mistakes really than

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you do from the Fluke successes.
But sometimes the accumulation of all those mistakes

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and the learning points ends up in
something actually going well. But you know

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it went well because of the choices
you made. So to my left,

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and it'll be speaking first, because
we'll have to take it in terms because

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of the audio recorder thing we've got. Alistair. Alisair was on the show

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about a year and a half ago. I think something like that. You

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would talk to Ham and what we're
talking about something, So, Alistair,

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what did you take for our trip? What did you learn? What did

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I take? In terms of hole? So are we talking or just go

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nuts? Go nuts? Okay?
So I was later addition, I would

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say to the to the Greek Plans, and I took a fairly lightweight packing

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system. I wanted to go as
fairly faster than light as I could based

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on initial feelings of what my fitness
was and the terrain that we might be

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covering. And from on that I
went a little bit mad by the lightweight

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gear. I wanted comfort at night, that was my decision making process.

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But during the day I wanted to
to basically be able to move fast,

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so I opted for trail runners,
but also conversely are really nice, you

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know, eight centimeter thick, higher
value sleeping pad at the other end of

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the situation, and then various packing
things. You know, I kind of

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I weighed out my gear, sort
of use pat light to help whittle down

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things. That's the website. The
website that you can you can input various

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gear things to tell your your selections
between sleep gear and cooking gear and so

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on. It gives you a lovely
pie chot. We'll put a link to

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that in the bio of the podcast. Yes or a will, cause I

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won't, so we're doing it well. And then yeah, a lot of

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a lot of chats with Rich about
food selection because obviously at that point the

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number of days and things were unknown
to me. It was do you want

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to come up to Scotland? Yes? Where we go? Not quite all?

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NOI art, do we know a
route? No? You need to

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eat though, you know? Yes, so I plan meals and my takeaways

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post trip are weirdly enough of my
gear selections. I was happy with most

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things. There was a broken part
on a set of gators that I wanted

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to bring, which caused them to
be left behind, so I was left

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with trail running sort of anti rock
little gator things, which proved, you

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know, they were admirable in the
situation to go as high as your socks

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basically, yes, yes, they're
literally there to stop rocks getting any your

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shoes. That's it. They're not. They won't protected, you'll legs racking

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or gorse or thistles or anything like
that. So that was an annoyance before

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you even left the Airbnb sort of
thing. But by that point they were

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already in the bag, so it
was dead weight in the pack. And

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then coming back afterwards, I've still
got most of a food bag because I

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took far too much food. I
would say those are my two main negatives.

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And then but actually on the train. My sort of fears over my

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general fitness of doing some of the
steeper, steeper train were unfounded. Actually,

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I was quite happy with my overall
fitness, surprised that my sort of

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farm fit carried me through quite comfortably. Because you're a farmer on a fairly

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steep farm. Soon anything at the
top of the hill you have to do

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about a thousand meters of thousand feet
of ascent. Yes, yeah, there

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is. There is a lot of
walking involved when I'm not using our gate.

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I think I wouldn't fit. You'd
be if you had a second quad,

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what I'd be like an arable farmer. Jesus have just switched off.

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Sorry guys, Yeah, that's that's
my initial takeaways. I think. You

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know. We we originally set out
for what good was it three nights total,

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and we ended up doing some replanning
during the route, so I didn't

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get to test all my gear as
well as I liked. But happy with

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what performed well m hm, so
yeah, and I very much enjoyed it.

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Views were spectacular, as they've already
alluded to early, but it's it

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was a difficult to find a view
I didn't like. Yes, yes,

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very much, so it was.
That's kind of the reason we were there.

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Okay, well, thank you for
you for now, thank you turn

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the focus onto David now, so
David or Dave generally, it's only my

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mother that caused me. David,
so because you've not been on the show

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before, No, not not not
this one. Now, I've been a

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long term patrol for the show.
And basically, when I mean, this

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idea came about because Rich showed me
a rough idea of planning had and I

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thought, oh, look, I've
got some worksh do in Scotland and the

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it sort of fitted quite honously with
the route you were showing me initially,

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and I fancied a weekend a way
doing some hillwalking, and it also happened

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really so we invited everyone came up
here. How with you with the anchor

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for the whole thing. People kept
saying, you know, going on this

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trip, I know Dave's triplet's we
went together. I will pass the blame

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entirely onto you for everything wherever possible. That's fine. I've got both shoulders.

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I don't mind. So as far
as what I was expecting, I've

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got a limited amount of mountaining experience, mostly a little bit of Whales and

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a little bit of Lake District,
and I was unprepared for the dramatic scenery

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in the Western Highlands, which was
bloody hell. That's quite severe, quite

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big and steep. Yes, it's
from c to that goes straight up.

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Yeah, it's relentless. Somebody once
said to me that walking in Sodi or

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the Lake District or anywhere else in
England and Wales is completely ruined for you

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the moment you come to the Western
Highlands or the Caring Horns, because just

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after that, that's that's where the
big stuff is, that's what the proper

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stuff is. Yes, and it
was I was really catching the boat in

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and dawn was starting to break.
You've got that twilight first thing in the

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morning, twilight, and you start
seeing these dark shapes, dark sharp shapes

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appearing in front of you, like, oh, I didn't quite realize it

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was going to be. Is dramatic, it's the best way to describe it.

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I mean, it's achingly beautiful and
there's just visit is for to fill

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the soul with everything you could ever
want. It's I absolutely love the place

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I shall be coming back. It's
given me a taste of for what else

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there is definitely so. I think
it's something for our overseas listeners, but

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to through those in the in Canada
and the southern Canadian region just below it.

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But these these mountains aren't huge by
sort of global standards. They only

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go to about three or four thousand
feet above sea level, but you're often

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viewing it from sea level. Yes, that's where the roads and the valleys

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are. Don't go more than one
hundred meters above sea level. A lot

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of the time. Often you're driving
on the coast, so when you see

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the summit of the mountain over there, you're looking right up. You're craning

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your neck right back to lock the
top. There's no one going up to

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five thousand feet and then there's a
peak. It's I'm on the bunt when

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you go straight up who which is
very good. My fitness level for what

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we were planning wasn't adequate in my
opinion, I'd probably got through it,

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but I wouldn't have enjoyed it as
much. I'm certainly the little bit of

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walking up done in mountains wasn't good
enough prepper ration for coming up here.

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It's just rumless slot of uphills,
but the views at the top are definitely

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worth it. It's often trackless as
well, isn't it. Yes, if

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you're lucky, you're following a deer
track type thing. It's just case of

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that let's pick the the less dangerous
looking roots on that hill, yeah type

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thing. Alison and I were doing
a lot about on the second and the

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second day we sort of get to
okay, we'll get to this rock and

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remember that rock we're standing there,
and go left round up and there,

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right round that and left through that, zigzag through that. Oh yeah,

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I see, get onto the one
with a point between the square point one.

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Yeah. It's like when you look
at the OS map, it's orange,

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person, someone that's just solid orange. Just to contour lines are just

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so close together. It's it's not
orange map, which is not something you

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get in the area from where the
conto lines are infighting the trinciples. There

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we go. Yeah, if I
was coming back, I'd do a lot

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more more preparation and a lot more
severe hills, especially with what turned out

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to be a heavy pack that i'd
been practicing with, which leads on to

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when I was taking so a seventy
liter osprey pack. Heaviest items in there

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were my tent which is wild Country
Home compact too, which I've got some

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new poles because I've broken weekend previously
in the amber zide that lovely little storm,

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that happy which you had to get
delivered to my house because it was

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more likely to get to the than
the Western Highlands in time. Yes,

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So when I spoke to well comforted
them like, oh, we're not sure

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if it's going to get to you
in time, so I gave them your

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restriction. It turned up next name, which is brilliant. Yeah. But

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then I got a message every day
saying have you still got the poles?

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Are the poles? Have you packed
the poles? Are the poles in the

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truck? The pole? Did the
poles make it to the second vehicle?

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I'll be here, And I did
wonder what about it? Yeah, but

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I did wonder where the you know, would it be too cruel to just

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sort of photoshop them into different places, you know, throw it into a

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rubbis dumb a band above the river
which struck down side of the M six.

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Yeah, we've got that face.
Yes, So yes. When I

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originally planned my pathway, I was
looking at about eight to ten kiloads and

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then suddenly it turned as nineteen when
we got here, so I hadn't quite

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planned properly for that. I mean, one of the things I managed to

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do before is I managed to lose
nearly ten kiloads of weight. That definitely

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helped from you, from me personally
you because I knew this was coming up.

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So I went on a mixture of
very restricted diet which was basically chicken,

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broccoli and rice and avocados mixed in
with intermittent fasting and the way off

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and I shall continue to do so
it look better for us, better for

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it, I agreed, because I
want to lose. I was nearly ten

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percent. If I can get to
twenty twenty five percent, I'll be very

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happy. That was That's not a
six month period of ten kilars. You

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did that in a month, but
six weeks. Yeah. Yeah, And

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I didn't feel bad for it either, So I didn't feel that losing that

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way was a chore. I wasn't
angry all the time. But I did

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have to cut out drinking, which
was fund a good thing for me,

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definitely. It's a lot cheaper as
well. Christ Well, I had to

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find some way of a folding all
the shiny kissing again. Yeah, but

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Yeah, I spend more time doing
more of the hill walking with the properly

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weighted pack. My expectations and understanding
of the trade and walking into have developed,

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so I now know what to expect
and yeah, quite that really learning

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experience, I've learned a lot.
I'll be better for birth next on.

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So next up we have Chris who
was on the IT Bring this year.

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You are on the podcast, Yeah, I think so go on. All

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right. So the chance for me
to join this trip came up with Dave

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at the gathering in the summer.
Yeah, and it was more an nostalgia

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thing because I've been here before.
Last time I was at Neudark twenty twenty

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one, and obviously there was a
lot younger than because I'm a month away

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from sixty. Your mind remembers twenty
years ago, but your body is nowhere

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near it. So I packed too
heavy. I packed for other people because

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I'm so used to running activities where
you've got to take into consideration the lack

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of ability of other people you've got
with ye, not necessarily in the hills,

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but in like in a woodland environment
and in more of a lowland environment.

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And these guys are very capable and
I didn't appreciate that at all,

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so I sort of basically humped.
You might have to translate that for the

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Americans if they listened to no,
I carried. I carried fifty pounds up

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the hill, come back and used
perhaps a quarter of the stuff in there.

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Yeah. Yeah. One of the
other things that I did was I

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decided I wasn't going to throw a
load of money at new equipment for an

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activity that I would probably not do
that often or ever again, so I

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may do with what I had.
When you're in a group, you have

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to understand fitness is different to speed, and you may be fit enough to

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walk up and down the hill,
but you may not be fast enough to

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keep with the people you're with,
and that's very important to understand. But

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coming back to the estate was really
good. I enjoyed it and it was

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great fun with you guys. Yeah, because we I think we've been on

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the on the peninsula twenty two minutes
before you bumped into somebody you oh god.

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Yeah, And then there was another
one walking out. Yeah yeah.

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00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,160
This guy sort of stopped was on
the track and he was doing the are

206
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,160
you meant to be? You're not
meant to be? On that track over

207
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:30,880
there on the other side of the
valley. Question. Yes, but then

208
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,720
more to the points, I don't
know, we are heading for that hill

209
00:17:33,799 --> 00:17:36,359
there. He gave us a bit
of datron. Oh yeah, there's a

210
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,720
new track that takes you about the
hydro there. And then if I was

211
00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:42,640
going to be doing this, I
go around onto the onto the ridge that

212
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:48,400
curves around onto that first summit and
then you and Chris said, Drew,

213
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,400
aren't you it was he's a stalker. The Yeah, he used to stalk

214
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,680
that state thirty years. We only
find out he was retired when we spoke

215
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:03,279
to the guy in the next day, didn't Yes, stalker is professional hunter,

216
00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:07,039
not not somebody who just keeps hiding
anyr bins. Oh yeah, and

217
00:18:07,079 --> 00:18:11,799
those guys are up and down those
hills all day with a rifle or pair

218
00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:17,200
of binoculars and spotting scope and that's
a cigarette as well, or yeah,

219
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,359
and a little flask of whiskey.
And they're the types that if they do

220
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,920
get stuck out up there, they're
just crawl out of the wind and come

221
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,559
back the next day and no one
would ever worry about it. Yeah,

222
00:18:27,559 --> 00:18:32,680
yeah, but no, that's so
that was good. So it was.

223
00:18:33,839 --> 00:18:38,359
It was interesting as well seeing the
comparisons between kit because my kit was very

224
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:44,799
different to alistairs and shockingly similar to
days unfortunately. Yes, yeah, Dave

225
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,519
and I have have this weird thing. We don't communicate about stuff, and

226
00:18:47,519 --> 00:18:51,519
then we end up buying, if
not the same model of something, we

227
00:18:51,599 --> 00:18:55,200
end up buying something that's incredibly similar. So I think we ended up with

228
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,200
the same boots, pretty much,
the same trousers, same rucksack, same

229
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,640
satellite communicy, it's the same poles. They're all very very similar that you'd

230
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,559
have look tice and that's my pack. Yeah, and it was. It

231
00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:12,480
was practiced such from the back from
from from the back. It was all

232
00:19:12,599 --> 00:19:17,920
very neat, so like an alpine
pack effectually, so there's nothing hanging off

233
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:29,599
it, not like bottom pands banging
around. Yeah, because that's how I've

234
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,640
learned to pack over the years.
It goes in the pack and you don't

235
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:37,720
make a lot of noise because I
like to exist in nature, not scared.

236
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,759
Its way. It was ironic because
you start a deer away, well,

237
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,480
let me go, I think you
actually saw the deer that heard you

238
00:19:47,519 --> 00:19:52,160
when they were approaching us from an
angle. And it was when I was

239
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,799
telling you to remain still and you
were walking towards the two coming towards the

240
00:19:56,839 --> 00:20:03,359
water. Oh well, I can
quite see what you would there. So

241
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,319
if you're using handsOn, I didn't
know what they meant because I was never

242
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,000
in the army. But on that
kit, I mean your tent weighed what

243
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,559
under two killer grounds? I think
so, yes, I was using a

244
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:22,200
hubb a hubber NX, which is
it's not a lightweight tart tent by any

245
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,119
means, but it is you know, it's around the two kilo or just

246
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,480
under one took it did take off, yes, so that was a learning

247
00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:37,559
point when you compare that new tech
with the old tech. I think my

248
00:20:37,759 --> 00:20:42,319
tent setup was around seven kilos,
but that was some of that are put

249
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,960
down to the well the size of
it. You saw the difference in the

250
00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:52,400
size and also no in this ground. I chose really robust you know,

251
00:20:52,759 --> 00:20:56,599
brackets, heavy pegs to bring with
me as well, and never lost a

252
00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:03,079
peg that first night. Think it
was because of various reasons. We ended

253
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,319
up in this saddle, which was
pretty much collecting all of the wind that

254
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:08,839
had come over from the east of
Scotland, went right through the middle of

255
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:15,119
the highlands and all focused into that
one acre of hillside into my tent.

256
00:21:17,519 --> 00:21:22,200
Yeah, because you I think you're
you're I was nearly finished setting my tent

257
00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:26,880
up when I saw your tent in
my sort of upper nine o'clock periphery as

258
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:32,960
it blew away briefly because your your
small shepherd's crook pegs don't didn't actually hold

259
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,200
in properly, but even mine I
was. I watched you set up your

260
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,839
tensaster before I set mine up.
I usually sort of like as an avalanche

261
00:21:41,839 --> 00:21:45,960
poodle to try and find a way
to okay and see what happens to his

262
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,039
tent, and then I'm going to
base. I had to go right next

263
00:21:48,039 --> 00:21:52,440
to him or all the way over
there, depending on how badly or well

264
00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:56,119
this goes. That is one of
the things I've picked up over the years

265
00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,640
and years is if you can always
go for the most robust pegs, because

266
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,240
they will make such a difference.
So you can have the best tent in

267
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,039
the world, but if it blows
away, you know you've had it.

268
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:08,880
You can have a crappy tent,
but if it holds still, at least

269
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,599
you've got some sort of cover.
Yes, but you just have to carry

270
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:18,920
him. Yeah, I bought some
of the great big nine inch nail tenth

271
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,079
snail pegs or more way up in
the ambleside, because I needly lost my

272
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:29,680
tent then and the little pegs I
had were not sufficient for the grammy in.

273
00:22:29,759 --> 00:22:37,319
Then yeah, the little titanium chapper
tucks crooks because luckily I've brought more

274
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,680
than a selection of pegs. So
yeah, when the inner decided to make

275
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:49,279
its way swiftly towards the block,
and yeah, they were swiftly replaced with

276
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:55,240
MSR groundhogs, which actually did the
job far more appen for me. And

277
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:03,160
yeah, that's a note that are
used in logan conditions for sure. Then

278
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,279
the next day, because we've got
things up about just bloat just over two

279
00:23:07,319 --> 00:23:11,839
thousand feet, I think we were
at We counted that our first night,

280
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,759
and then alstrad I headed off in
one direction and Chris and Dave headed off

281
00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:21,279
in a different direction, and Alstrada
I decided we wanted to really wanted to

282
00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:23,799
do another eighteen kilometers, yes,
in a short period of time, and

283
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:29,359
didn't see anybody until we were really
nearly at the bottom again, although there

284
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,000
was a near miss where I decided
to go and flip a rock and dig

285
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,400
a hole somewhere just off to the
one side of the track. Haven't not

286
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:41,200
seen any other humans, But over
twenty four hours and not five minutes later,

287
00:23:41,559 --> 00:23:44,880
the only other two people in the
entire valley decided to try and walk

288
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:51,200
past. Yes, there was a
certainly delaying tactics, mostly caused by a

289
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:56,240
small Scottish slash wearing a Highland coup
hat, which was fascinating. Yeah.

290
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,160
I've always got this theory that if
anyone does disturb me whilst we're in the

291
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,680
middle of your blue sh and maintain
eye contact, maintain dominance, and they

292
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,079
they'll back away slowly. It's their
fault. Yes, safe for bears,

293
00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:10,920
isn't it. Yeah? I think
well, you know, on our route

294
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:17,559
back down, we started to then
see more of the deer trails and we

295
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,400
never came back down the route that
we went up. We dropped into that

296
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:26,559
re entrant and then we picked them
up. And there's a reason that the

297
00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:30,240
deer walked that way. Yes,
And it's a lot quicker, easier and

298
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:37,400
interestingly less risky because they are not
scrambling over rocks and you can see the

299
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,640
trails when they come to a boggy
area that they can't jump, they will

300
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,720
walk around it, and it just
the more you come sort of tuned into

301
00:24:45,799 --> 00:24:49,480
that, they then lead you the
not necessarily the most direct way, but

302
00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:53,559
they lead you the safest way or
a safe way. It's no efficient roots,

303
00:24:53,559 --> 00:24:57,400
isn't it. Yah. I found
that on the second day where there

304
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:03,799
was no human tracks really there,
but we would often be picking our way

305
00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:07,680
between two rocks over around the bluff
and you just do it visually based on

306
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,000
what looks at the best line,
and then you get there and they'd already

307
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,680
be deer prince or fresh deer who
on the ground. Yes, so you

308
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,400
were following in the deer track without
even realizing it was there because you looked

309
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:23,440
at it like a deer the longing
to be there. And it was interesting

310
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,960
how often that happened. And that
is you just tuning into that environment in

311
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,279
a relatively short period of time,
because when we were going up, you

312
00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:33,839
know, you can look at it
and go, oh, yeah, there's

313
00:25:33,839 --> 00:25:37,400
a deer motorway on the other side
and all the rest. But then within

314
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,319
ten hours or you know, five
ten hours of that, you are then

315
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:47,000
seeing those those single deer route.
Yeah. Definitely deer roots when Rich and

316
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,119
I were following the ridge line.
I think half the times that we were

317
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,200
actively avoiding them was so that we
could either look to see the next step

318
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,759
of our root or just to sort
of claim the peek as it were,

319
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,039
you know, where whereas the deer
would be running around slightly around sort of

320
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:08,240
the leeward side of the hill or
on the slightly flattered ground just below where

321
00:26:08,279 --> 00:26:12,240
they're scent wouldn't be sent over the
hill. For sure, we were,

322
00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:17,440
you know, it was it was
nice to not be on a on a

323
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,599
walk track actually a fair bit.
Yeah, it was using the ground you

324
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,400
could sneak upon quite happily as well. You were well within stalking distance.

325
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:34,480
Yeah. We had several good wildlife
encounters Tomigan snow grouse, thing, plenty

326
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:40,519
of read deer. We've got seal
down in the valley. Yeah yeah,

327
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,240
yeah. We saw squirrels in the
woods coming back down, didn't we.

328
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:53,119
There were grays and the highland some
of them. It's no doubt really is

329
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,640
a special place, and that that
ferry ride that brings you in, so

330
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,440
it's a half hour ferry you bucket
from a placed on the lake on the

331
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,240
mainland, I could say, in
the mainland, but it's both on the

332
00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:07,039
mainland, but it really does feel
like an island when you're there because you're

333
00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:12,119
accessed by sea, and to walk
out is a couple of days realistically from

334
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:18,599
where we were, so that ferry
ride across is there's always something about arriving

335
00:27:18,759 --> 00:27:22,119
somewhere by small boats as well that
it doesn't make it feel a little bit

336
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,039
special. Yeah, I think when
we landed because I think we'd looked at

337
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:30,960
the weather and made some predictions based
on wind speeds and so on, and

338
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:37,079
our original plan was that we would
catch the boat in and then walk out

339
00:27:37,319 --> 00:27:41,160
because then we wouldn't be beholden to
whatever weather came in, as it was

340
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,200
beginning to look a bit gusty and
a bit fruity for the extraction. So

341
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:52,160
our original plan was to walk out, And I think part of the impetus

342
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,079
when we got there was like,
this is us. Now We've got,

343
00:27:56,279 --> 00:27:59,759
you know, two or three days
ahead of us to slog out back to

344
00:28:00,039 --> 00:28:03,480
you know, where we parted the
car in the first place. And there

345
00:28:03,519 --> 00:28:10,759
is a I like that thing about
it being committed to a place, because

346
00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:15,880
that was something in the original plan
which we didn't quite hit because that plan

347
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,400
all hinged on. You had to
get to this certain point by the end

348
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,640
of day one because if you didn't
hit that point, then you wouldn't be

349
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,680
able to make up the time on
day two in order to do day three,

350
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:32,880
which got you back to the start
point. Yes, and there was

351
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,319
a bit of extra communication with home, trying to get sort of ferries,

352
00:28:36,319 --> 00:28:41,039
book and things like that, because
there is a mobile data signal there now

353
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,079
at four G in places, but
even so once you're once a behind the

354
00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:51,440
mountain, it doesn't work. Yeah, and we took different communication devices with

355
00:28:51,559 --> 00:28:55,480
alses just occurs. Yes, Yeah, that was part of my planning.

356
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,559
Everyone else carried the gear. Dave
and I both had the Mobile Defy Satellite

357
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:03,599
communicator, which we you bought about
a month before I did. Yes,

358
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,960
and we've both been playing around with
which seems to work, but it does

359
00:29:10,079 --> 00:29:14,160
require being able to see a satellite
that's quite low in the sky, so

360
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,200
when you're behind a mountain and there's
a mountain between you and the satellite doesn't

361
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,599
work. It's been very similar to
every satellite phone experience I've ever had in

362
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,200
a valley, which is wandering around
with the area at a slight angle,

363
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,559
going no, yeah, no,
yeah, no, right, because the

364
00:29:30,599 --> 00:29:38,160
satellites are all equatorial and we are
fairly far north well, you know,

365
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,480
relative to most other things. I
think we are about level with mid Nova

366
00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:48,160
Scotia. Yeah, always gets it
wrong. It's how far north England or

367
00:29:48,279 --> 00:29:52,319
Britain, the British hours actually are. We're actually remarkably far north, but

368
00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:56,640
we're worn temperate and down, yes, beacause of the Atlantic and the jetstrip,

369
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,880
but we are quite quite long way
up. So we are at the

370
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,799
edge of where Motorola and Bullet and
the people that run the software and the

371
00:30:06,839 --> 00:30:10,240
satellites for it, they say that
we are in the coverage zone that is

372
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:15,079
well covered. But I would say
only if you're on a south facing slope.

373
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,960
Yes, I mean even on the
top of the hill. Sometimes I

374
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:27,039
was finding finding it difficult to get
stuff like coverage yea, as the communicators

375
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:32,279
do need to be on top of
your pick yes, high up with a

376
00:30:32,319 --> 00:30:33,799
good view of the sky, so
you can't check it in the bottom of

377
00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:38,039
your pipe. It won't work.
Literally turning your rocksack over it's enough to

378
00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:41,799
block it. It's almost like you
have to orientate it before you then commit

379
00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:45,079
to sending the message. Rather than
just relying on it being there. Yeah.

380
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,880
Yeah, yeah, also just looked
it up. We're at fifty seven

381
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:55,359
degrees latitude where we were there,
so and whereas Chris, you took a

382
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:59,319
PLD. Yeah, that's I always
carry that. I have for years and

383
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:03,440
well, as you know, it's
not a communicator. It's a press the

384
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:08,240
button for help device, but that
relies on well that's working to different satellites,

385
00:31:08,279 --> 00:31:14,279
to the communication satellites. So you
are according to the stats and the

386
00:31:14,319 --> 00:31:18,599
history of people who've used it,
you know you've got good coverage very far

387
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,960
north and south worldwide. You might
struggle on the pole. Other than that,

388
00:31:23,079 --> 00:31:26,559
you know, it's yeah, because
that's the think yours is you press

389
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:30,200
the button, unfold the antenna,
and then it's leaps until the battery goes

390
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,200
dead. That's right. Yeah.
So it's got the GPS antenna and then

391
00:31:33,279 --> 00:31:40,960
the satellite antenna and it bangs out
four h six megahertz at five watts,

392
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,559
So it will punch through pretty much
anything. And where we were, there's

393
00:31:45,559 --> 00:31:48,440
nothing to stop it. You're going, I'm here, come get me,

394
00:31:48,519 --> 00:31:52,640
I'm here, come get me,
can get me repeatedly. Yeah, And

395
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:57,039
it will do that and update your
position every sort of it's fifteen minutes,

396
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,599
so you're you know, you're not
probably not going to be moving anyway,

397
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,960
so it's it's great on that.
The disadvantage, of course, is then

398
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,920
you don't get that two way colms
like you would if you guys hit your

399
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,759
emergency buttons. There's a chance that
someone could then assess what the nature of

400
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,839
injuries and give you an update on
time frames. With the PLB, just

401
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,400
hunker down and wait it out.
Yeah. And also I suppose it doesn't

402
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,519
because of that lack of two way. It doesn't allow you to resolve minor

403
00:32:25,559 --> 00:32:30,640
problems. It's either it's nothing or
nuclear. That's right. It's a cool

404
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,039
for rescue rather than ask for advice. Yeah, or I can't say other

405
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:37,480
ferries running tomorrow? Is this thing
running? Is this? What's the what's

406
00:32:37,519 --> 00:32:40,319
the weather forecast? But I can
ask if as long as you get a

407
00:32:40,319 --> 00:32:44,279
signal, I can go and ask
Amy, yeah and look it up for

408
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:49,920
me. But that overall is part
of that sort of pre planning for it.

409
00:32:50,119 --> 00:32:52,880
Because the stuff like Communicator, it
communicates to an app, so it's

410
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,119
not you can just send a text
message out, but you can't do two

411
00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,240
way unless you're within their app that
app lies the person on the around.

412
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:01,799
I think you probably have this with
your wife as well. But the app

413
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:07,680
is open and they're expecting you to
be sending messages through it, but it's

414
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,640
running in the background. Yeah,
it's going to be enabled on the on

415
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,079
the handset and they have to signed
up and you know it's got to be

416
00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:19,680
present. Oh, you just get
based texas you go download this app.

417
00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:22,200
Some people have to talk to you. Yeah, but I found with that

418
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,799
the first time you do that,
it doesn't actually work properly. Is until

419
00:33:24,839 --> 00:33:30,440
you almost started a new conversation,
and then it works about them. I

420
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:36,000
think there's an app book which is
the sort of thing you test a few

421
00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:37,480
weeks before you go on a trip. You don't want to do that whilst

422
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,200
you're in the middle of nowhere to
work it back and forth while sit there

423
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,519
were two firms next to each other. Yes, absolutely, you've got to

424
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:50,440
established that relationship with the person that
we talk to before needing to because I

425
00:33:50,519 --> 00:33:53,519
think that's something that people often do
is they buy a piece of equipment for

426
00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:57,680
a trusted brand, trusted source.
They trust the reviews and they trust it's

427
00:33:57,759 --> 00:34:00,880
going to do exactly what it says
on the tin. But I'm a very

428
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:02,720
suspicious person and I want to go, Yeah, I want to I want

429
00:34:02,759 --> 00:34:06,559
it. I want it to do
the thing in front of me good conditions,

430
00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:08,519
two or three times before I trust
that it is actually going to do

431
00:34:08,559 --> 00:34:12,679
that thing. Yes, Is that
water filter going to work? Is that

432
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,679
tent going to stand up? Is
is that sleeping that going to stay inflated?

433
00:34:17,039 --> 00:34:20,920
Think you had a few issues of
that somewhere. I've got a small

434
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,199
leak of moid sleeping that and even
submerging at the bath. I can find

435
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:29,760
the whole at the atomic level somewhere. It's I think it's leaking seal that

436
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:36,199
trying to submerge and inflated sleeping is
actually quite difficult because it doesn't want to.

437
00:34:37,559 --> 00:34:40,280
So if I've got that tiny leak
and it's not showing bubbles with some

438
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,639
soapy water, I actually need to
submerge it in still water to see the

439
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:49,800
air bubbles coming out. You need
more of a swimming pool than a bath,

440
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,599
and several people to hold it now
weight it down and I just see.

441
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,440
But that was interesting about the communication
devices because the three of us took

442
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:07,079
one. Obviously, Alistair is relying
on ours a little bit if it all

443
00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:12,000
went pe Tom. But thinking back
on it, I never did any training

444
00:35:12,199 --> 00:35:16,639
with yours or your motor rollers.
You know, I never bothered myself to

445
00:35:16,679 --> 00:35:19,800
go, like, show me how
this will work. So if I have

446
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,119
to use that in a hurry because
I'm the only one left and I need

447
00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:27,400
to text my last will and testament
to somebody, or how does this actually

448
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,280
work? But you did show us
your yeah, showed me. Yeah,

449
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,880
yeah, I got the beacon out
on the night before we went and showed

450
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,199
you the buttons. But it could
be even a simple thing like oh,

451
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,440
yeah, I know yours works through
the phone, but how do I unlock

452
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,840
your phone? What's your code on
the screen? You know? Do I

453
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:52,880
have to cut your thumb off or
something to cut off? It's better to

454
00:35:52,920 --> 00:36:00,039
be sure. Yeah, that's which
hand putting your in head on again and

455
00:36:00,119 --> 00:36:05,239
a bit of an instructor learning,
and that's sharing that that kit and that

456
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,320
knowledge rather than just for a lot
of richer take care of it. And

457
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:12,880
then we all took water filters,
which is quite interesting. Yeah, that's

458
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,079
gone more for you. No,
it's my phone, which was recording half

459
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:21,920
the conversation on has just decided to
reboot itself. So we'll start that recording

460
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,000
again. Should we pause everything?
Picking up on this and people like to

461
00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:36,039
hear the shambolic nature of the kettle. We knew that plan right. We're

462
00:36:36,079 --> 00:36:40,800
back, So the audio may have
changed a little bit because my phone decided

463
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,440
to die. I don't know why. I think it was actually the app

464
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:50,199
for running motorrollers have like communicator,
decided didn't like what we were saying about

465
00:36:50,199 --> 00:36:53,639
it and killed itself. So we've
changed up positions on the table and now

466
00:36:53,679 --> 00:36:58,280
the recording devices at one end.
So the audio quality may have gone up

467
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,320
or down depending on how badly the
first bit went. If it sounds like

468
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:07,239
my bits had dubbed in afterwards,
they probably weren't. So we started talking

469
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,239
about this when we were resetting with
new coffee and resetting the table. There's

470
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:19,239
a thing about tech overall, which
Chris said about we didn't show you know.

471
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,920
This is how you use our device, but realistically, unless you have

472
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:22,840
to go into the app, go
and find the messages and do the two

473
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,159
way to access a two way communication
for our things, you have to go

474
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,760
right into the app on our phones, but on the device itself there is

475
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,800
a big orange SOS but to press
that and stuff will happen. There's a

476
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,039
checking button as well, which if
you set it up in yeah, yes,

477
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:43,920
it can send your current location to
your nominated check in contact. Yes.

478
00:37:44,159 --> 00:37:45,960
Yeah. The only thing I'd say
on that is when you look at

479
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:51,239
the video, they're a promotional video
and it says, you know, even

480
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,719
if you press the SOS but and
they will then come back to you.

481
00:37:55,320 --> 00:38:00,119
That sort of implies and I've never
used it, but it implies that I

482
00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:04,480
then have to go on that phone
to apply to their messages. We're going

483
00:38:04,519 --> 00:38:07,199
to do a review on it,
and I'm going to ask them for some

484
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,039
questions because there was some feedback on
this anyway. But I will ask that

485
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:15,079
if you just press it and ignore
it, does something? Do they eventually

486
00:38:15,079 --> 00:38:20,599
go or I will send something Yeah, appears on your head ultimately, right,

487
00:38:20,639 --> 00:38:24,320
it's going to be the same emergency
service or volunteer organization that comes to

488
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:30,320
you. It's how that that group
receives the information, you know, because

489
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,880
they're going to be tasked by the
police. But the police after then get

490
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,280
the information. Does it come from
a pool center in Kuala Lumpet or does

491
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,719
it you know, how does it
work? Then comes through the ARC.

492
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,159
Yeah, but then it's like that
The emergency show was quite interesting because when

493
00:38:46,199 --> 00:38:51,480
I was talking to the sign of
the police guys, they're very well practiced

494
00:38:52,519 --> 00:38:58,400
on taskings that come through regular channels. So if the the RCC tasks the

495
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:04,360
local police force, that is an
established procedure. But if it's like let's

496
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,320
just say it's the Garment Emergency Control
Center that then phones a police number in

497
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,440
the UK, You've got all of
that. Is it real, isn't it?

498
00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:16,119
You know, the procedure isn't quite
as well practiced. Yeah, I

499
00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:20,039
think it goes center. I think
I think in the UK both PLDs and

500
00:39:20,039 --> 00:39:23,760
this sort of goes to definitely will
go through Farmer Yeah, and goes through

501
00:39:24,039 --> 00:39:28,280
basically Coast Guard. Yeah, it
goes through the MCA. It used to

502
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,559
be in lots sorry if Kin Loss
up here didn't. Yeah, there was

503
00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:35,199
two. There was the Farmers one
was the civilian one and then the r

504
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,280
c C at Kin Loss was for
when we had military covering why need search

505
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,880
and rescue legions and stuff like that. But now it's all just based a

506
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,960
phone and depending on who you got, there was either the seeking but it's

507
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:52,519
way to sell this to me that
we actually need to send you a seeking

508
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,599
which was there was always interesting conversations. But that's the parts of the thing

509
00:39:57,639 --> 00:40:02,039
about other tech. Because Dave and
I both had os maps with us.

510
00:40:02,079 --> 00:40:09,719
You had the maps printouts, yeah, copy map. Yeah. And then

511
00:40:10,519 --> 00:40:15,559
Dave and I were both running Outdoor
Active on our phone as an app.

512
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:21,559
Yes, I also have Mr Map
as well, Yes, which is I

513
00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:24,960
think I prefer the map rendering to
be honest on the map. Yeah.

514
00:40:25,159 --> 00:40:29,639
Outdoor Active app has got better,
but it's still doggy and doesn't have all

515
00:40:29,639 --> 00:40:31,280
the features and wanted to have it. It sort of took over from an

516
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:36,400
app that was called view Ranger,
which was almost perfect. Yes, everyone

517
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:43,239
loved it, and then it went
and now it's sad because it's acts as

518
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,559
a sort of trained map reader.
It was. It was nice when we

519
00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:50,159
were up on the high sort of
ridge with some of the wind and you

520
00:40:50,199 --> 00:40:54,800
were there just with your phone,
quick zoom. That's that's the next sort

521
00:40:54,840 --> 00:41:00,840
of checkpoint that we're aiming for without
a map flopping around. You've cut down

522
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,000
your map, which yeah, it's
pretty pre standard of the size of the

523
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,000
phone. Screwing basically yeah, yeah, so I do it so I can

524
00:41:07,039 --> 00:41:09,599
fold it to that size. But
also sometimes you know, like when it's

525
00:41:09,639 --> 00:41:14,920
up there and you're looking at five
k's on a little square is not enough.

526
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,039
Sometimes you need to be able to
see a big like that little bit

527
00:41:17,199 --> 00:41:22,280
bit further but at the same scale, because that really MUCKs me up is

528
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,320
when you can zoom in and out
and the squares get I'm just so tuned

529
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,920
into looking at a two centimeter square, you know, it's I find it

530
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:36,119
difficult then to see features when that
two centimeters square becomes five and then it

531
00:41:36,199 --> 00:41:40,440
changes changes the color scheme as well, exactly. Legend say, we were

532
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,440
quite tech heavy. I suppose we're
a little really. We have, you

533
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:52,480
know, three three emergency systems,
three hard hard copy maps, two electronic

534
00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:57,480
versions walking around. I think I
was carrying three compasses. Yeah, I

535
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,800
think each of us had a compass
I have. Yeah, there was with

536
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:07,519
the matching, but with the tech
for the mapping for the app. We

537
00:42:07,519 --> 00:42:10,079
were using that as a map.
We weren't using it as GPS dedyce.

538
00:42:10,159 --> 00:42:14,800
So yeah, if we were relying
on waypoints and saying, okay, navigate

539
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,719
to this waypoint in the straight line. Navigated this waypoint in a straight line.

540
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,440
It was we already looked at the
map weeks before and going, yeah,

541
00:42:21,559 --> 00:42:24,400
there's that flap ontour to that flat
contur these contours in between. That's

542
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,679
an acceptable ridge, that's an acceptable
sloppangle. I know I can walk at

543
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,440
that with this kind of pack.
There might be some rocks, it might

544
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,920
be some undergrowth, but we'll deal
with that on the day. And then

545
00:42:35,679 --> 00:42:38,199
we were just navigating from assuming I
no, I need to get to this

546
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,519
flap bit, this bit on the
on the ridge, so that's through here,

547
00:42:42,599 --> 00:42:45,559
through here, through here, and
then looking at it at it on

548
00:42:45,639 --> 00:42:50,280
the ground, I'd say, if
it'll be navigator. If the weather had

549
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,159
come in and we dropped down to
sort of normal Scottish visibility, which is

550
00:42:53,199 --> 00:42:57,519
about the length of your trekking pole, then I would have gone to the

551
00:42:57,599 --> 00:43:02,480
paper map, I think, because
I'm more comfortable using that to go from

552
00:43:02,519 --> 00:43:07,320
place to place to place with or
without the assistance of the compass, because

553
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,960
it's easy. Like Chris are saying, my brain is built then for the

554
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,960
square, for the grips of being
a certain size, whereas with the phone

555
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,800
and zooming games, zoom and zooming
out, so you can't get a sense

556
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,639
of how far apart of those contours
are based on your zoom level. Yes,

557
00:43:24,519 --> 00:43:29,400
you have to put you have to
then dedicate more brain energy to work

558
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:34,880
out what should almost be a second
nature sort of understanding. Yeah, I

559
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:40,079
think like talking about the weather as
a as a designates for our replanning or

560
00:43:40,159 --> 00:43:47,519
planning. I think that the wind
speed change changed our root selection initially from

561
00:43:47,639 --> 00:43:52,199
voting boat act to we're going to
try and walk out. And then when

562
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:58,599
we hit the ground it's very you
know, beautiful weather actually, and we

563
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:06,480
as we got up to that towards
the lock the hydro lake and then beyond

564
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:12,599
the wind started kicking in when we
were getting more exposed. And I think

565
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:22,239
that's changed your guys' perceptions of what
was ahead possibly yes versus Richard and I's

566
00:44:22,119 --> 00:44:29,400
yeah, sort of situation of how
it would change our plan on the ground.

567
00:44:30,079 --> 00:44:34,400
Would you say anything to that?
Yeah? But also like I was

568
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,039
like quietly not confident, but sort
of quietly hopeful that I could achieve an

569
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:45,679
average of around sort of like say
two clicks an hour, but just a

570
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:51,880
steady pace. But then that that
quickly became apparent as we started to climb,

571
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,440
when we were hitting that rat and
that I wasn't going to do that,

572
00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:55,760
and that was going to have a
big effect on what you guys,

573
00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:00,360
because you know, like you guys
are probably your four clicks an hour years

574
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:05,280
we are, well, I'm certainly
twenty years. You're young. Yeah,

575
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,000
but I mean that's not the point
because it's the effect of one person on

576
00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:13,840
that whole group and not the mission. But you know what, the sort

577
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,960
of light the outline aim was,
Yeah, faster, that's right, and

578
00:45:19,039 --> 00:45:22,079
then you don't like the rest stop
so you guys can get ahead. You

579
00:45:22,199 --> 00:45:25,840
then wait for me to catch up. I get my ten minutes, you've

580
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:30,519
already had twenty and you're off again, so you're not catching up on that.

581
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:37,119
I think there's also a if you're
walking for ten hours, you've got

582
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:38,880
ten hours of walking drained from your
legs, no matter what speed you go

583
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:44,199
back to. Definitely, it's like
some of them you can feel absolutely knackered

584
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,360
after a day of wandering around doing
Christmas shopping, despite you haven't actually gone

585
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,840
that fast, you haven't gone that
far. It's just you are standing up

586
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:57,159
and shuffling and adusting your weight for
ten hours. Yeah, it's the same

587
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,840
thing for because I was like I
was feeling quite tired at the end of

588
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:04,440
day one. We hadn't necessarily gone
as far as we wanted to, because

589
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,519
it turning up at that time.
We just went. And even if it

590
00:46:06,599 --> 00:46:10,559
was standing around waiting, we're still
holding seventeen like pack or whatever. And

591
00:46:10,679 --> 00:46:15,400
also it's our differences because looking at
day one, if I was making the

592
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:20,639
decision to lead a group up there, I would have probably just followed the

593
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,960
re entrant rather than you know,
we went. We followed Drew's little sniggery

594
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,440
advice and went to the left and
hit it almost straight on, didn't we.

595
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:34,480
In places, see, I've found
a mountaineering that it's a it's a

596
00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:37,679
shallower slope, aangle to go on
the left because the ridge is more gradual,

597
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:42,079
it's still pretty steep, whereas the
re entrant you're going up into it,

598
00:46:42,119 --> 00:46:45,239
but then the last bit is a
full on climb out at the end,

599
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:50,639
whereas the other way you run up
and flaps. In hindsight, and

600
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:52,840
having seen what we've seen as we
came down, and it would that wouldn't

601
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,639
have been the case. We'd have
gone up, you know, on the

602
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:59,760
left side, following the deer track, and then there was the deer motorway

603
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:01,599
was on the right and we'd have
come out right by that little lot where

604
00:47:01,639 --> 00:47:07,840
we all spent the night. Yeah, we did find a much more gentle

605
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,079
route down what we took out,
Yeah, which whilst it's still the same

606
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:20,360
vertical ascent, it's no nearest of
it too. There's the whole mental challenge

607
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,320
as well, when when you're sting
the bottom and sudden that's thirty to forty

608
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:27,320
degrees and you look at going that's
really steep and I'm going to struggle.

609
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,119
You've already decided you're going to struggle, Yeah, and you don't know that

610
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:36,960
you're descent route would have been better
in ascent onto your tray. That's exactly

611
00:47:37,079 --> 00:47:38,840
right, absolute, Yeah, that's
that's one of the things. And it

612
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:44,320
comes with familiarity with the area walking
in and this was this was an adventure,

613
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,199
yeah, And that's the whole point
it was. It was going in

614
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,039
that this was definitely unknown for me, well out of my comfort zone,

615
00:47:50,519 --> 00:47:55,360
and I didn't know the trail at
all. I've looked on Google Earth,

616
00:47:55,480 --> 00:48:00,320
I've thrown through because you can bring
a viewpoint down and literally move through about

617
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:05,639
it. And even then he was
unprepared for the severity of it. So

618
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,360
your research was going to Google,
mapp sliding around. I think you'd looked

619
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:15,039
at trail routes because you during the
initial planning you were putting out various different

620
00:48:15,039 --> 00:48:20,440
ones. Yeah. I looked at
people's blogs and previous routes, photographs,

621
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:22,679
their comments about where things aren't,
what things are, the best routes.

622
00:48:23,559 --> 00:48:27,480
So I've done a lot of background
reading and a lot of what I thought

623
00:48:27,599 --> 00:48:34,440
was meant mental preparation for arriving,
and I hadn't done enough. And then

624
00:48:34,559 --> 00:48:37,559
Chris, you were going off your
base knowledge of when you've been here,

625
00:48:37,159 --> 00:48:40,679
Yeah, years ago, But that's
just they you know, you meet in

626
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,880
the morning, you go out for
the day, and you come back.

627
00:48:44,159 --> 00:48:47,639
You're not you're not doing what we
did. And also when you look at

628
00:48:47,679 --> 00:48:52,880
a lot of the reviews of people
who are walking that area, they will

629
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,119
go and stay in the lodges and
things and bag a couple of monros of

630
00:48:55,199 --> 00:49:00,440
the day and then come back,
so they're not planning for overnight, which

631
00:49:00,559 --> 00:49:04,840
is what we were doing. So
we were planning for two overnight it yeah,

632
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,679
three maximum. Because I did again
likely some of other people's blogs,

633
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:14,519
there was I was looking on I
don't know, a road bagger or something

634
00:49:14,559 --> 00:49:17,119
like that for the local area and
seeing what other routes people were doing,

635
00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:22,559
because that was just towards the end
of the planning selection when we were finalizing.

636
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:28,559
And then I found a couple of
YouTube videos of people walking the trails

637
00:49:28,599 --> 00:49:30,880
that would have taken us to the
Sudi's Bottom, which was one of our

638
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:36,599
first overnight spot, so I could
see the terrain and so at least in

639
00:49:36,679 --> 00:49:39,239
my head, I have not been
up here before, I knew what to

640
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:49,360
expect, steep mountains given little tree
cover, given the videos gave me the

641
00:49:49,639 --> 00:49:57,719
bandness that I'd forgotten or was unaware
of. And also sort of how the

642
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:02,639
wet dry conditions, because we really
experienced the wet conditional normal Scotland. It

643
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:07,199
was very dry, wasn't it.
Were really happy with the very dry considering

644
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:13,280
how bad the other side of Scotland's
had it recently. It's still barb it

645
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,960
flowing through and flooding into our communities
and people dying Western Higlan. It was

646
00:50:19,039 --> 00:50:22,880
surprising and just how dry it was, Just how dry the you know,

647
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:27,320
the streams in the re entrance that
the water flow from dam and everything.

648
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,639
It was. Yeah, there's a
trickle. It's the driest I've seen in

649
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:37,119
the Western Highlands in October. Yeah, there was, and that that made

650
00:50:37,159 --> 00:50:40,360
everything easier in a way, which
doesn't really affect the other decision and the

651
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:45,239
other points. But the difference in
wet rain, the difference in bogy terrain,

652
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:49,480
the difference and just how much resistance
the ground puts up when you put

653
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:55,199
your foot on it. That makes
a huge difference to what to how much

654
00:50:55,239 --> 00:51:00,159
effort it tastes to traverse that route, how much, how much mental energy

655
00:51:00,199 --> 00:51:06,599
intakes to go through that route.
But it's thing, I feel like we've

656
00:51:06,639 --> 00:51:10,400
all had good learning points from this, and it's not necessarily the learning points

657
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:16,480
we expected to gain. I think
it was sense to talk learning points.

658
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:23,199
There was a comment I think Chris
brought up, which was he carries poles

659
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:31,639
for for use, but he's not
he doesn't get mad a lot. Yeah,

660
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:36,239
it was. It was my first
time using poles on steep mountains,

661
00:51:36,679 --> 00:51:42,079
you know, and pretty much and
but I've been a skier for many years,

662
00:51:42,119 --> 00:51:45,679
so again I'm used to poles.
Yeah, you know, there's a

663
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:51,440
there's a core memory of corn memory. But you know, when I'm not

664
00:51:51,599 --> 00:51:53,599
concentrating, I go into a flaw. You have muscle memory, yeah,

665
00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:01,719
and Rich certainly has that. So
it's quite interesting seeing how how much extra

666
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:06,400
effort I guess you guys were having
to put into due to just having to

667
00:52:06,519 --> 00:52:14,480
concentrate to think about it was when
it focuses you into that little bubble which

668
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:17,719
is as far as your poles can
reach, when you should be looking You

669
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,559
should be looking there, right,
You should be looking ahead, rather than

670
00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:24,320
where am I going to put this
pole? Yeah, that's the thing I

671
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:29,079
think. Until your poles become muscle
memory, they aren't. They aren't a

672
00:52:29,159 --> 00:52:32,239
useful tool until you stop thinking about
them. And then when you do stop

673
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:36,880
thinking about them, they make a
huge difference. I used to use when

674
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,440
I used to do ultramarathons, and
they would knock minutes of my average colometer

675
00:52:40,519 --> 00:52:45,440
pace, you know, just by
having poles and way we were using them

676
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:50,440
on the second day, it was
it was as much for agility, yes,

677
00:52:50,639 --> 00:52:53,039
as anything else. It was sort
of you come around, you you

678
00:52:53,119 --> 00:52:55,480
come around with rock. You use
it to offset that so you can keep

679
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:00,800
the momentum into the corner, which
overall does affect your average pace. But

680
00:53:00,639 --> 00:53:05,400
there were a few times where poles
stopped me probably getting a prop of an

681
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,679
ankle just with ground gave way below
below me into a bulk or something like

682
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:12,719
that. But I sort of leaned
on the pole, not on not on

683
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,599
my ankle or my ship. There
is a great tip Dave give me on

684
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:21,400
the way down, because as we
were coming down, Dave was in the

685
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,320
front at this stage and I could
see him using the poles to stop his

686
00:53:24,519 --> 00:53:30,360
momentum going forward, and I was
trying to do the same, but constantly

687
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,679
going forward. And then you know, he said, oh, you have

688
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,639
extended your poles for going down.
Well, yeah, of course, I

689
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:44,760
don't know what I'm doing. Go
around the rock, yeah, longer the

690
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:49,440
way down. Yeah, that comes
down to time on time on tool.

691
00:53:51,199 --> 00:53:54,480
Although I can't use the scratch properly
apparently, no, we did. You

692
00:53:54,559 --> 00:53:58,159
have to be showing several times and
you still get it wrong. You're an

693
00:53:58,199 --> 00:54:01,039
engineer, like right, you put
your hands the straps like this, and

694
00:54:01,079 --> 00:54:05,360
I'm and now they're wrong. But
I've just done what you've told me to

695
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,199
do. You're perhaps you got that
pole. Do you know what I found?

696
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:14,079
I found for me, I was
more comfortable not actually using the straps

697
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:19,320
because then I could position my hand
anywhere up and down that pole, you

698
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,039
know, to push me off if
the pole needed to be sure. I

699
00:54:22,119 --> 00:54:25,559
could do that. It's kind of
I know, when I'm in an almost

700
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:30,960
a flow state, when I'm moving
across rough ground with poles. Is when

701
00:54:30,639 --> 00:54:35,079
I realized that now both of my
left hands and my right hand's holding onto

702
00:54:35,079 --> 00:54:37,320
a rock. As I'm scrambling up, and I don't remember doing it,

703
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,840
I just automatically slip my hands out
of the straps past the dealer pole to

704
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:45,320
the other hand I'm holding it midway
down. I'm climbing up onto the thing.

705
00:54:45,199 --> 00:54:50,519
It's like when you you you drive
the same route to work every day,

706
00:54:51,079 --> 00:54:52,920
and you eventually get to a point
where you're at work, and you

707
00:54:52,119 --> 00:54:55,960
can't remember anything about the journey about
how you got there. When I'm doing

708
00:54:57,039 --> 00:54:59,840
that, I know that I'm probably
in the right mental state for this,

709
00:55:00,599 --> 00:55:06,719
but it's not entirely trustworthy. The
other interesting or another interesting one for me,

710
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:08,840
it would be to find out or
to hear from you guys, how

711
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:15,840
your water systems expectation versus performance.
Because we all had a different version of

712
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:22,639
the Fuilter. Unless Dave and Rich
and all that nobody he had he had

713
00:55:22,679 --> 00:55:24,559
one I already owned, but I
took a different one. They had to

714
00:55:24,599 --> 00:55:30,480
be a linked Yes, so I've
got the little ms R Trail Shots trail

715
00:55:30,519 --> 00:55:32,719
shop thing. One's like a prima
ball for an outboard motor something like that.

716
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:40,119
Yes, And it's not very fast
and it cold up instantly the first

717
00:55:40,119 --> 00:55:45,679
time I tried using it, which
is disappointing. And it's quite a chunky

718
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:52,800
little puddle. It's quite a peaty
little it's it's we do have a pre

719
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,679
filter on it. Yeah, it's
got fine, very fine filter, so

720
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:02,440
you're not sucking the solid straight up. And eventually once I hadn't wash that

721
00:56:02,599 --> 00:56:06,639
off and cleaned it up and it
started before me. But there was a

722
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:12,599
lot of a lot of effort required
for not a lot of water, whereas

723
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,400
watching Alistas casting in B three,
you just fill it up and then you've

724
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:21,719
sluted it out and it uses the
pressure of you squirting the whole bottle,

725
00:56:22,039 --> 00:56:25,280
which is a lot more efficient.
Let's that you required a lot less effort

726
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:30,719
to get the water that I needed. Yeah, we have both ptechnically had

727
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,920
the same film from different companies,
didn't we Yeah, because I bought the

728
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:42,960
patienin B three specifically for this trip. I've got a Sawyer squeeze home,

729
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:49,239
which is dependable, but there was
a discount, a healthy discount, and

730
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:52,960
your wife worked in an outdoors it
was there was there was good reasons behind

731
00:56:53,039 --> 00:56:58,599
getting it, but it was also
because I wanted to take a much larger

732
00:56:58,679 --> 00:57:06,000
water carrier to do can't filter,
which the cast and filter is better for.

733
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:13,719
But yeah, that was new to
me, and it was again similar

734
00:57:14,119 --> 00:57:19,199
dark peating puddle. That was quite
a quick learning experience that actually it's not

735
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:23,840
great in murky water, but as
a speed way of getting filtered water into

736
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:30,880
it's it needs very equick. I
have the Platypus basically equivalent to the Sawyer

737
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:32,840
squeeze, and there's a few different
things that have the same same system,

738
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:37,639
where there's a drinking bladder type bag
that you fill with water, screw it

739
00:57:37,679 --> 00:57:40,400
onto the filter, put the clean
end of the filter over your bottle,

740
00:57:40,719 --> 00:57:45,000
and squeeze it out. It's one
I might use that one that's much,

741
00:57:45,199 --> 00:57:49,639
but it was just it basically was
the first one in the pile of water

742
00:57:49,679 --> 00:57:52,079
filters that came up. I mean
the lucky position where I have a box

743
00:57:52,159 --> 00:57:53,800
of water filters. So I just
went for the one at the top,

744
00:57:55,119 --> 00:58:02,719
but I was happy with it.
The maybe sighted bigger capacity for filterings,

745
00:58:02,719 --> 00:58:05,800
it will only be about a liter
at a time in the bag, so

746
00:58:06,079 --> 00:58:08,920
filling up two liters was get to
go back to the stream twice, go

747
00:58:09,039 --> 00:58:14,440
back to it twice, but I
was happy enough with it. And the

748
00:58:14,519 --> 00:58:17,159
thing with all three of our filters
we've mentioned so far, they're all grating

749
00:58:17,199 --> 00:58:21,440
the now point one microns, so
they will not filter out viruses, which

750
00:58:21,519 --> 00:58:24,599
is not really a problem here in
the UK, so we don't basically no

751
00:58:24,719 --> 00:58:29,400
viruses in our water unless you're collecting
it from downstream of a sewish treatment plant.

752
00:58:30,159 --> 00:58:37,480
But for the Highland upland water sources
it's very unlikely to be a virus

753
00:58:37,559 --> 00:58:40,480
problem in there, so those kind
of filters work well for that. We'd

754
00:58:40,519 --> 00:58:43,920
have had them boil it as well
if there was going to be a problem.

755
00:58:44,519 --> 00:58:47,239
But Chris, you had the slightly
more Yeah. So it's the pure

756
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:52,119
hydration in line water filter, the
bigger one with the pump. Yes,

757
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:58,159
yeah, so you've got it's like
two hundred gallon capacity, and because it's

758
00:58:58,199 --> 00:59:00,519
the pump, it will go down
to virus. I think it goes zero

759
00:59:00,599 --> 00:59:07,119
point zero three or something like.
It's really good. And my experience with

760
00:59:07,239 --> 00:59:09,440
it is from my military days.
You know, I was involved in the

761
00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:15,000
trialing of it to make sure it
could come into service. So it go

762
00:59:15,079 --> 00:59:20,760
all the way through the Institute for
Outdoor Aviation Medicine and all of that type

763
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,440
of stuff. You know, it's
good enough for a typhoon piler that to

764
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:27,360
sit on, it's good enough for
me to carry up and down, and

765
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:31,000
it's versatile so I can take that
filter and clip it to a camelback system

766
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:37,679
or to a gravity system. That
your confidence and it was high for me,

767
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:39,800
you know as soon as we got
there, whereas mind being brand new

768
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:45,199
to me, I was still you
know, I've not done that testing three

769
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:49,440
times in ideal conditions or to try
and find out how bad it was.

770
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:54,239
But again we had within the group, we had backup. You know.

771
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:59,760
It was I think we all brought
it. That was a trial for us,

772
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:04,119
but there was back up within the
great group. So yes, it

773
01:00:04,239 --> 01:00:07,360
was a little bit more heavy individually, and we could have all bought modern

774
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:12,719
system for the group. I think
that was part of the planning process,

775
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,360
was you do you and then we'll
all come together and make it work.

776
01:00:16,079 --> 01:00:20,360
Rather than we were a group.
This person's going to lead, this person's

777
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,079
going to make, this person's going
to carry temples. It's person got the

778
01:00:22,159 --> 01:00:25,000
ten you know, it wasn't.
And that's that's some of the bit that

779
01:00:25,039 --> 01:00:30,079
I definitely got wrong because I didn't
just do me. I was also us

780
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:34,519
subversively doing you as well, if
you know what I mean. Yeah,

781
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,920
that was a weird thing for me
in a way because I had to remind

782
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:44,280
myself halfway through September or at the
end of October when the trip happens,

783
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:46,719
halfway through September, to remind myself, no, no, you're not in

784
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:53,239
charge of these people. You've been
advited as a peer. It's peer.

785
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:59,800
And this in hindsight, this is
a different thing for me because I've done

786
01:01:00,239 --> 01:01:04,119
fair amount of peer trips, less
so in the last ten years because more

787
01:01:04,199 --> 01:01:07,519
trips have been work and when I
go out with friends, we don't go

788
01:01:07,559 --> 01:01:09,639
into the hills, we don't go
Toto the woods, because I'm doing that

789
01:01:09,679 --> 01:01:16,760
all the time. So going out
with peers before that was generally with peers

790
01:01:17,119 --> 01:01:22,719
who were peers. In terms of
experience, I was often sort of middling

791
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:25,360
or lowest experience in the group.
And then when I'm leading, I'm often

792
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:30,119
the most experience in the group by
default, because you don't you don't pay

793
01:01:30,199 --> 01:01:36,400
to train somebody who knows less than
you. So for this it was I

794
01:01:36,559 --> 01:01:38,400
was able to observe. Basically,
I had all my kids, You had

795
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:42,719
all your kids. I would have
helped with your kids if you needed it,

796
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,159
but you didn't need any help.
And I wasn't in a position of

797
01:01:45,199 --> 01:01:51,280
authority or control of any type,
which meant I was able to have less

798
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:53,320
kit and I didn't have to worry
about having little lamlets in the top of

799
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:58,159
my pack saying Okay, your leader
is now unconscious or dying or dead.

800
01:01:58,719 --> 01:02:01,679
If this case, do this,
you know, get the standalone GPS out

801
01:02:01,719 --> 01:02:06,239
of my pack. So I don't
do this. Can you'd be surprised,

802
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:10,159
men, because I think quietly we
were all looking to you anyway for the

803
01:02:12,039 --> 01:02:16,440
wisdom. Can You're not, whether
it was deliberate or not, because you

804
01:02:16,519 --> 01:02:21,360
are the most experienced person in the
mountains and all the rest. Even though

805
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:24,440
we didn't put a big I am
the leader baseball cap on you. Well,

806
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,800
that's the thing. It's like that, I know you have more experience,

807
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,639
So I'd listened to what Yeah,
definitely apart from apart from them.

808
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:35,400
When we were trying to find the
first track and then you slipped and first

809
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:39,599
I told you so, Yeah,
because I said this is down here.

810
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,760
Yeah, there was a lovely track
down on the river. Though, wasn't

811
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,519
it enough to clime of de offense? But we walked back, we were

812
01:02:45,559 --> 01:02:50,119
back. Yeah, it's perfect.
Yeah. Simon says, do not go

813
01:02:50,199 --> 01:02:54,679
in here, this is private,
this is part of offenses. Yeah,

814
01:02:55,320 --> 01:03:00,440
but Drew said it was all right. The last it's Scottish Act. Access

815
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:02,519
code means that even though it was
a gate, you can still go through

816
01:03:02,559 --> 01:03:06,320
it. That's why they're not allowed
to panel. They do make it very

817
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,280
difficult to get through. They need
small If you ignore the sign, everything's

818
01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:17,800
possible. But that is something I
started to get an idea in that first

819
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:25,679
morning that we weren't all in the
same place growth zone, comfort zone.

820
01:03:28,039 --> 01:03:30,400
Not no one was in panic zone, but it was it was it was

821
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:35,679
I said, this is going to
be a stretch me my comfort zone.

822
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:42,119
I think the difference in terrain compared
to what you'd seen before this was was

823
01:03:42,239 --> 01:03:45,679
something because I was on a fair
amount in Scotland that it's sort of Scotland

824
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:50,760
is like the wilder, crappier bits
of Whales in terms of terrain, where

825
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:54,440
where there's no tracks, everything's uncomfortable, everything steep. Yeah, but that's

826
01:03:54,519 --> 01:03:59,239
what most of Scotland's like, away
from the bend Nervers track and stuff like

827
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:02,719
that. Whereas your your experience has
been a lot of it's been the lakes

828
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:06,400
and Harbyshire and Dartmoor, which darn
was pretty wild, but it's wild and

829
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:11,320
in a very different way. Yes, it's just a bit bleak. There's

830
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:15,320
no massive hilt, but there's a
lot of bogs, yes, whereas there's

831
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:19,519
more human human sign you were mentioning
to me, you know, oh,

832
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:24,440
that's the first plane I've seen for
a while. There was no ambient sort

833
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:27,559
of a noise, which again I
think we had snowed down. Yeah.

834
01:04:27,679 --> 01:04:31,480
You you you can't get away from
that. You have the sound of Kevin

835
01:04:31,639 --> 01:04:35,360
for Birmingham on his sports bag coming
through. It's a very different environment all

836
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:39,920
around, and like you said,
creates. It's that tuning into the environment.

837
01:04:40,639 --> 01:04:44,360
And I've got this this thing,
not if even a theory, it's

838
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:49,119
just a belief that if you take
the word bushcraft and bushcraft being the skills

839
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:55,840
needed to live and work effectively in
that environment. The British bushcraft, if

840
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:59,519
the bushes, the wild bits,
it's not a woodland in Hampshire. There's

841
01:04:59,559 --> 01:05:01,480
nothing wrong with spending time in woodland
in Hampshire. I spent a lot of

842
01:05:01,519 --> 01:05:05,119
time in woodlands in the countryside of
Northeast Wales. One of them is ansters,

843
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:12,800
but it is not the same skill
set, is not the same mindset.

844
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:16,159
It's not the same reliance on your
ability to read the landscape as coming

845
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:21,159
up here. And I would say, for if using bush is the wilderness

846
01:05:21,199 --> 01:05:26,800
wilder areas of the UK, that
is places like the Northwest Highlands, where

847
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:32,360
understanding that landscape, understanding that that
rock over there is five miles away or

848
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:38,519
that rock over there is five hundred
yards away based on size, or what

849
01:05:38,719 --> 01:05:42,960
this wind means, what that white
hazy bit blowing in over there means that

850
01:05:43,239 --> 01:05:45,360
you're about to get to get wet
in ten minutes because it's rain coming towards

851
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:48,199
you. Being able to read that
landscape, being able to read the water

852
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:55,199
courses, read the angle of the
slope and know what the environment is going

853
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,119
to do to your kit and what
your kit needs to do to interact with

854
01:05:58,159 --> 01:06:01,000
that environment. That is. So
that is what bushcraft is. It is

855
01:06:01,079 --> 01:06:08,239
that knowledge of knowing where you fit
in that landscape, what your equipment,

856
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:12,039
whether it's made from the stomach of
a red deer or whether it's bought from

857
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:16,119
Ellis Brigham, what that hit needs
to do in that environment in order for

858
01:06:16,159 --> 01:06:19,800
you to do your thing, whether
it's walk or live or hunt or whatever

859
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:26,559
it is. It's that mental skill
set. So bushcraft isn't building things in

860
01:06:26,639 --> 01:06:29,760
the woods, despite what you do
and an instagram tells you. It is

861
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:32,480
that inherent knowledge that you need to
live in that environment. You can call

862
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,400
it field craft, you could call
it hillcraft, you could call it mountain

863
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:41,760
craft, whatever, but bushcraft is
the sort of the search engine friendly term.

864
01:06:42,559 --> 01:06:45,639
So I think it's the trending to
them. Yeah, so there's a

865
01:06:45,719 --> 01:06:49,639
magazine on the table that I'm just
looking at them just before we start on

866
01:06:49,679 --> 01:06:56,920
the podcast that had a gleeful freemale
walker who was going up a mountain range

867
01:06:57,199 --> 01:07:00,320
very close to me, which is
a friend's farm, and this this lady

868
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:04,800
clearly was having a great time taking
up this hill, conquering this hill.

869
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:10,480
But to my friend Sarah, that's
her checking her sheep and she'll be doing

870
01:07:10,559 --> 01:07:14,199
that in boots and gens before taking
the kids to school. Yeah yeah,

871
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:19,960
or probably having the kids with her. Her bushcraft is hefted to that bit

872
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:25,719
of ground, whereas Ellen from Birmingham
or whoever she was, you know,

873
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:30,159
that was out of her comfort zone
possibly or her kids had to enable her

874
01:07:30,199 --> 01:07:34,719
to do that, whereas she think
she thinks her kit is. But then

875
01:07:35,199 --> 01:07:41,599
when you get up onto that area
where we can and there's this is fifty

876
01:07:41,679 --> 01:07:46,440
sixty hour wins hit. It doesn't
matter who makes that kit. If your

877
01:07:46,519 --> 01:07:49,480
tent blows away, it's so late
to blaying the tent right, Yeah,

878
01:07:49,519 --> 01:07:54,559
it's your fault, whether it's two
hundred quid of Go Outdoors blowing away or

879
01:07:54,599 --> 01:07:59,159
fifty quid from Tesco or seven hundred
for MSR. It's still soarting off down

880
01:07:59,199 --> 01:08:03,360
the valley and you're now stuff in
your practice in your bushcraft without your tent,

881
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:09,679
which is there. What's going to
kill on me first? So back

882
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:15,399
up is a bag or survival,
but you haven't done that because it's more

883
01:08:15,479 --> 01:08:20,800
important to feather some sticks and works
because you've bought the thing and that thing's

884
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:24,079
at the bottom of your back and
you know it's there. You are safe,

885
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:28,000
You aren't going to die because you
have the thing and I've never opened.

886
01:08:28,239 --> 01:08:33,199
But having shown any kids doesn't stop
you getting into trouble. Having the

887
01:08:33,279 --> 01:08:40,600
right mentality and the tools in your
head will stop that. And we spoke

888
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:46,000
about that when we did our podcast. Was the the divorcing of responsibility by

889
01:08:46,159 --> 01:08:50,960
having a named brand and endorsed brand
and all the rest. But as as

890
01:08:51,079 --> 01:08:55,399
you go back to all the time
making the decisions, you know, I

891
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:59,960
knew halfway up that hill on day
one that I wasn't going to be going

892
01:09:00,159 --> 01:09:04,000
over the top, you know,
to try to achieve that the initial goal,

893
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:10,600
and even you know, I was
formulating my plan to to you know,

894
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:13,000
to fess up and say, hey, guys, I can't do this.

895
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:17,039
But also I was then looking around
to say, how can I safely

896
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:21,279
or you know, as safely as
possible get me because I was just planning

897
01:09:21,319 --> 01:09:26,640
on me at that time to come
back, to come back down and also

898
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:29,960
getting ready for the big argument where
we're not going to leave you with learn

899
01:09:30,039 --> 01:09:36,760
and all this type of stuff,
But there was none matters like, well,

900
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:41,199
I think we just put you in
misery. Nicole mckit if it wasn't

901
01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:51,920
there. Even Drew would come back
on it on the come up in his

902
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:59,119
shorts and flip flops. Part of
that how people respond to the environment as

903
01:09:59,159 --> 01:10:02,960
well, what group dynamics arelike,
what's in the psychology of that, the

904
01:10:03,039 --> 01:10:11,319
psychology of people who are in an
environment that they thought they understood that they

905
01:10:11,359 --> 01:10:15,560
don't, or because they've got an
injury which has all sorts of effects on

906
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:19,600
the way they can physically perform,
but also their emotional response to that.

907
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:25,600
All of these things are what would
make a good mountain leader. These things

908
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:30,039
do come together to make a skill
set that you can only develop by coming

909
01:10:30,079 --> 01:10:34,319
to do these things. You've got
to come out to the hills in a

910
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:38,920
way that means that if it goes
well, you have a lovely time.

911
01:10:39,319 --> 01:10:43,520
If it goes poorly, you don't
die. And planning a trip that sits

912
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:46,800
within those brackets best time of your
life didn't die. That's kind of the

913
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:53,000
up and lower level. And when
I speak to people about developing their skills

914
01:10:53,399 --> 01:10:55,359
and should you go out in bad
weather, it's like, well, yes,

915
01:10:55,399 --> 01:10:59,039
you should go out in bad weather, but only in a way that

916
01:10:59,199 --> 01:11:01,399
means that it's safely. Yeah,
you are ready to turn around, you

917
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:04,079
have the kit to deal with it. You are with somebody who can make

918
01:11:04,159 --> 01:11:09,720
that call for you, and then
you now have a data point that saying,

919
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:13,680
well, I went out with Bill, and Bill's done a lot more

920
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:15,199
of this than me, and Bill
said, but he held this is terrible.

921
01:11:15,239 --> 01:11:17,960
Let's turn around. I know,
yeah, I probably won't go into

922
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:23,079
that level of condition again. But
if you go out with somebody and they

923
01:11:23,159 --> 01:11:25,479
say, well, it'll be fine
if we do this, this and this,

924
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:28,600
or we'll get to this point and
make a decision based on this criteria,

925
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:31,800
you now have. Okay, So
that's the thing that makes the difference.

926
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,640
It's not just the wind, it's
what the wind's doing in exactly that

927
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:39,800
one point. Yeah, because we
definitely have that. On day two,

928
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:45,560
you guys have decided that your limitations
were going to change what you wanted to

929
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:53,319
do. The number of us allowed
us to split the group with the capability

930
01:11:53,479 --> 01:12:00,880
between us and our confidence and my
confidence and Richard's great time in the hills

931
01:12:00,279 --> 01:12:08,159
and knowledge of whether on the hills
or on these hills more specifically rather snow

932
01:12:08,199 --> 01:12:11,359
don't know or whatever allowed us to
go, Yeah, we can do that.

933
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:13,680
That's easy. And even if we
get up there. We can always

934
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:17,920
turn around come back if it's all
And like you said, that knowledge of

935
01:12:18,079 --> 01:12:25,239
what weather or wind does around mountains
that can only be attained from spending time

936
01:12:25,359 --> 01:12:30,399
on task is applicable because we got
up there and it was fairly hellish I

937
01:12:30,399 --> 01:12:34,239
would say nine one where we were
because we were in this vortex and wind.

938
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:40,000
But we got up to the top
and it was mild. It was

939
01:12:40,279 --> 01:12:44,880
we could hold a conversation ten feet
apart without without raising a pose when we

940
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:46,680
heard you check to us and we
were halfway down that valley when you were

941
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:51,079
waving the poles top, Yeah,
we heard that. Well we heard the

942
01:12:51,159 --> 01:12:57,119
Yale definitely. And I think the
fear of the unknown. I don't know

943
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:02,840
how much that came into your making
for your root selection. I think,

944
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:08,520
to me, yeah, it's relatable
experience. So you know, there's been

945
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:13,079
cases, there's been times in the
past when you're trying to do something and

946
01:13:13,159 --> 01:13:15,439
you realize you're not going to do
it, and then it's having the you

947
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:18,319
know, the balls to say right, enough is enough, idiot, turn

948
01:13:18,359 --> 01:13:21,159
around and go back. But also
you know, like if if I'm in

949
01:13:21,199 --> 01:13:26,399
the woods on my own in a
day's forest, maintenance. There's there's times

950
01:13:26,399 --> 01:13:29,399
out there when the breeze will get
up and the trees start to move differently,

951
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:31,119
when you know I have to go
right, there's time to go home,

952
01:13:32,239 --> 01:13:35,119
or you can just you know,
grizz through it. The next thing,

953
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:40,560
you've got a three term tree over
your legs or something. Yeah,

954
01:13:41,159 --> 01:13:45,279
it's just relating, and everyone can
relate from different experiences of what you do

955
01:13:45,319 --> 01:13:48,039
in your daily life to that point
where you make the decision we go on

956
01:13:48,239 --> 01:13:55,079
or go back. You're really as
good as your actual experiences. Following the

957
01:13:55,239 --> 01:13:58,039
route of somebody else, following the
guidance of somebody else in a book or

958
01:13:58,119 --> 01:14:01,119
in one of the Root Guys and
Trail Maga or something like that. You've

959
01:14:01,159 --> 01:14:03,680
got to understand that when you're picking
that up, what you're doing is picking

960
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:09,640
up a theoretical You're picking up Okay, if I follow this theoretically, I'm

961
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:12,800
going to have the same experience as
the person who wrote this or the person

962
01:14:13,279 --> 01:14:15,439
who did this group before me.
But the variances in your kids, the

963
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:18,800
weather on the day, your fitness, your emotional state at that point,

964
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:23,560
your mental health, not just the
weather the weather before. Yeah, that

965
01:14:24,039 --> 01:14:29,279
the fact how dry the ground is
the state of strange bridges likes everything range

966
01:14:29,319 --> 01:14:30,520
you And when I come up here
in winter, I'm looking at the weather

967
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:34,399
forecast from two weeks before, because
that helps tell me what will happened in

968
01:14:34,399 --> 01:14:38,319
the terms of avalanche risk. When
you do come up here in the cell,

969
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:42,560
it would have been a different,
you know, a whole different sort

970
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,479
of get together and decision making.
If we'd got up to that campsite and

971
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:49,880
that was just that was just black
bog. Yeah, there's no standing water

972
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:55,079
at all because the higher we got
up those rivers and the little re entrances

973
01:14:55,119 --> 01:14:58,479
got drier and drier and drier.
The in fact we were next to that

974
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:01,560
little lock and yeah, made campsign. Yeah, but you know that could

975
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:06,359
have easily been dry. And then
as we climbed onto the ridge the number

976
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:13,760
of smaller lockers that were less weigh
you know, slightly probably better catsites actually,

977
01:15:14,239 --> 01:15:17,399
which was what half an hour extra
two hundred meters of extrascent to get

978
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:23,680
to them. Yeah, at the
end of day one, with your opinion,

979
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:28,119
hit too heavy or legs a bit
too bit too jazzed, a bit

980
01:15:28,159 --> 01:15:33,319
too old. Yeah, thats how
it changes your making good decisions. Well,

981
01:15:33,319 --> 01:15:38,760
the good decisions. Is that was
a good decision. Well, somebody

982
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,359
says, yeah, this is where
this is my turnaround point. That is

983
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:46,840
a thousand times better than the person
who then just keels over in a place

984
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,399
that's much harder to get someone out
of or they can't get to it.

985
01:15:50,239 --> 01:15:53,880
You know, I've done that on
trips before, often that when I was

986
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:57,159
in Mountain rescue saying, I put
my hand up halfway through through a search

987
01:15:57,199 --> 01:16:00,560
and went, you know, I'm
not enough sleep for this. Basically of

988
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:05,079
no use here whatsoever. I'm going
back to my car to sleep. It's

989
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:11,319
having that self reflection as well as
a think important part of that, and

990
01:16:11,399 --> 01:16:14,920
that's what trips like this are value. Before we didn't we didn't achieve anything

991
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:16,960
in the grand scheme of things.
We didn't save alive. We didn't find

992
01:16:17,239 --> 01:16:24,079
the hidden treasure of whatever. Didn't
find no. I didn't find MESSI or

993
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:28,600
I still just modered. I didn't
see no Orthough we did find the best

994
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:34,520
oatmeal stout I've ever drunk, which
is the the old Forge punid Art,

995
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:40,279
which is worth a visit. And
I discovered that when I remembered I had

996
01:16:40,279 --> 01:16:43,840
a hip flask of dura in my
bag. You all became a lot more

997
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:50,520
tolerable. We lost it was inverse. Yes, I did become what irritating

998
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:55,920
last night? So I think they
found at Booger Traptor's door with potato crisps.

999
01:16:57,039 --> 01:17:06,439
Do not find that? Ye?
Yes I did. Yes, that's

1000
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:11,039
gonna be bot isn't it. So
On that note, I think we'll end

1001
01:17:11,079 --> 01:17:13,560
the show, probably not gonna have
to show for this one, just because

1002
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:17,319
I think the important information is probably
worth sharing with the public. But we

1003
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:21,039
have something else maybe to share instead, So I'm going to cut this off.

1004
01:17:21,119 --> 01:17:25,279
Amy's going to splice in the extra
bits and hopefully the audio quality wasn't

1005
01:17:25,319 --> 01:17:28,960
too bad. Thank you, gentlemen, both for the weekend and the podcast.

1006
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:35,039
Thank you, thank you what it
was, thank you and the accommodation.

1007
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:50,000
Thank you for listening to this episode
of Modern Outdoor Survival from Original Outdoors.

1008
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:55,000
If you go along to Modern Outdoor
Survival dot com, there you will

1009
01:17:55,039 --> 01:17:59,279
find links to all of the content
and everything we talked about in this episode,

1010
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:02,520
pa links to all of the previous
episodes and the show notes for those

1011
01:18:02,560 --> 01:18:08,279
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to our Patreon page where you can become

1012
01:18:08,319 --> 01:18:12,039
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1013
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:16,039
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1014
01:18:16,199 --> 01:18:20,520
and behind the scenes stuff and a
few other things that are hidden away within

1015
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:27,079
there. You've also got our Instagram
account which is at Modern Outdoor Survival.

1016
01:18:27,159 --> 01:18:30,840
We don't post on their huge amount, but we do post photos from things

1017
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:33,920
that we talk about in the episodes. You will also find a link to

1018
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:40,640
our discord platform where we have a
group for Original Outdoors as a wider community.

1019
01:18:40,840 --> 01:18:44,479
There you can meet and talk to
people and discuss things, but all

1020
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:49,439
with the anonymity of an early two
thousand's forum or bulletin board. It's a

1021
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:54,960
nice retro way of going about things. I'm going to leave you now with

1022
01:18:55,159 --> 01:19:01,239
our three principles of Modern Outdoor Survival
and they are one, make good decisions

1023
01:19:01,279 --> 01:19:08,800
at the right times. Number two. Prioritize training over shiny new equipment.

1024
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:15,560
Number three, remember Instagram is not
your training provider. Bye.