WEBVTT

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Thousands of people had mysteriously vanished in
America's wilderness. Join us as we dive

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into the deep end of the unexplainable
and try to piece together what happened.

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And you are listening to Locations Unknown. What's up, everybody, and welcome

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back to another episode of Locations Unknown. I'm your co host, Joe Erato,

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and with me is always as a
guy who would never ban TikTok Mike

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vander Bogart. Thank you, Joe, and thank you once again to all

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of the amazing listeners for tuning in. We've got a really fun episode here.

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So I won't spend too much time
talking here at the front end,

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but I just want to give some
Patreon shout outs to new subscribers. So

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thank you to Amy Mitchell, Evan
Wilson, Julia Reagan, Amy Hoffman,

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Leanne Cole, Nikki Hogue, Paige
Johnson, and Brooke Oh you better get

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it right Frizzle So like miss Frizzle
from Magic School Boss. I sure,

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okay, probably related. Thank you
so much for supporting the show. As

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you can see, we're always adding
a new equipment. Your contributions directly go

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into everything in the studio. We've
got new cameras here and we've got big

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plans for the rest of this year. And if you do want to help

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support the show, you can always
find us on Patreon, YouTube memberships,

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you can buy stuff from our stores
on our website and Facebook, or just

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send us money. Or just send
us money. We have a pobox always

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willing to accept just straight up cash. And you know, if you don't

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want to give us, you know, monetary support, you can always just

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spread the word about the show that
helps us as well. So without that,

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Joe, you got any other updates
on your end, No, this

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is a highly anticipated episode. As
some of you know. We we just

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did a collaboration with National Park after
Dark and part of that deal was there

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we're going to come onto our show. So without further ado, we're going

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to invite on Danielle and Cassie from
National Park after Dark. Welcome you,

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guys, Hey guys, so hey, thanks for having us, well,

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thanks for coming on. So we're
excited for this. On your show,

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we did a lot of talking about
how we got started and we focus on

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the case, and a lot of
people commented that they really wanted a behind

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the scenes or a studio show where
we just talk about stuff, which is

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weird. Weird to us because this
is what we do all the time.

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But I felt like this would be
a perfect time for you guys to talk

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about how you got your start and
how you started your show. So a

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little bit about yourselves and how you
got how you got started. Sure,

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we can definitely dive into that story. I guess just starting off the bat

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as Danielle and I know each other
because we used to work as vettechs together

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and that's how our friendship formed originally. And we're both from southern New Hampshire,

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which we used to recreate in the
White Mountains of New Hampshire, so

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that's how we started kind of our
outdoor we were our outdoor friends of our

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whole that tech office. I would
say, like between everyone, we were

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always like, Okay, where do
we want to hike? What do we

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want to do? And then I
would say Danielle in particular, like brought

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to the forefront her morbid curiosities,
and I was like, oh hey,

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I I like that. So eventually
we started talking about a lot of the

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things that go wrong in the outdoors
and we brought them into our adventures.

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I mean, I Can. The
White Mountains were like a two hour drive

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from us, so I can remember
days where we would just read over affidavits

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in cases online for the two hour
drive that it would take us to actually

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get to these locations. And then
eventually Danielle and I both moved. I

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moved to Vermont, she moved up
to Washington and that's when the podcast started

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to form. Watch Danielle if you
want to tell that part, because you're

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the one who messaged me about the
idea originally. Yeah, So, like

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Cassie kind of alluded to, I've
always had some sense of morbid curiosity just

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growing up. It's just always been
kind of my thing, and it's taken

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different forms and shapes over the years. But kind of like a pivotal moment

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of it as far as specifically in
the outdoors was when I was on a

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family vacation as a lot of Americans
do, to Yellowstone and I was with

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my sister, my parents, and
my grandparents and we stopped at the visitor

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center one of the very first days, and I went immediately over to the

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book section because I'm a huge bookworm, and I picked up the book by

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Lee H. Whittlesey called death in
Yellowstone, and I spent the rest of

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our vacation cruising through that book.
But it just made my experience so much

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richer because I was going to these
locations where so many of these stories had

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taken place, you know, since
records were being kept, and I would

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share that with my family, which
I don't know if they really took to

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that super well, like oh,
someone got mauled by grizzly here or somebody

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wumitted their car off this ledge.
You know, they're like, okay,

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can you You're trying to enjoy the
beauty of the park and you're just like,

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here's all the people that died where
we are right now. Yeah,

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and they're like, okay, keep
it down around like your grandparents, you

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know. So that's kind of where
it took form as far as the outdoors

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kind of how that got braided together. And then, like Cassie said,

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when we would be together, we
kind of did a lot of that,

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especially centered in the White Mountains.
But when that move occurred, you know,

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we're in different parts of the country
and I had to actually instead of

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just packing up a U haul and
having my stuff shipped to Washington, my

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partner and I at the time.
We decided to take my little toe behind

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camper, like barely big enough for
a bed, you can't even stand fully

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up in it, like it's a
diny little camper. And we decided to

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go from New England throughout the whole
US the long way and go through and

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just stay in national parks and blm
land and national forests and things like that,

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and just made it like an adventure
out of the move. And during

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that time I would be taking note
of the places we were at and googling,

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you know, if anything happened there, and you know, Ian God

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bless him, he was like Dan
yell like I'd rather not know. Can

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you tell me after that after we
leave it would be cool. But so

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anyway, long story short. When
I pulled into washing Washington, all I

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was remember it was I think it
was Halloween or the day before Halloween,

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when I texted Cassie and I said, Hey, like, I have this

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idea, why don't we kind of
take what we've already been discussing and put

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it into a podcast format. And
she was on board right away. That's

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not to say we had any idea
what we were doing. We did not,

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Like I like, yeah, like
Cassie said, we were veterinary technicians.

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We had been for years. That
was our bread and butter. We

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had no idea. We literally went
to I mean, at least speaking for

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myself, I went to Target and
bought just like a microphone and plugged it

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directly into my laptop and just started
talking. We're like, great, this

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works. No editing, no sort
of any sort of equipment. That obviously

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came later, and it's still evolving. Obviously, we are self taught,

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and I think a lot of podcasters
can, uh can relate to that.

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So it's been a journey and at
first, you know, we were very

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surprised that we had any listeners,
and then it just kind of took off

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from there. Yeah, that sounds
very familiar. Yeah, that's kind of

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yeah, the exact same way we
started. Yeah, our first episode is

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sounds like we're in a tin can. Yeah we have yeah microphones on.

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Yeah, my laptop sounded like a
jet engine taking off. It was overheating

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and yeeah. That's that's probably a
very familiar to anyone to podcasts. Is

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probably has a very you know,
familiar origin story. Absolutely right, But

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you guys, you guys stuck with
it though. I think that's the key

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is it's you. You stuck with
it, You built a huge following.

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I mean, you guys are very
popular show. It's awesome. That's what

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we always joked that we didn't think
you would do a collaboration with us because

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we're not a big enough show for
you. Guys. God you'll hear in

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some voicemails we have for you later
some people are being nice, So like,

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I think you guys would be great. This is fantastic. Yeah nice.

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So how long have you been doing
your show? For? It began

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in January of twenty twenty one,
Okay, so just over three years.

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Yeah, so we had thought about
it. You know, when I first

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sent her that text, it's kind
of like, uh, yeah, that

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would be cool, and then we
actually did it. It's kind of like

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you seen those memes where it's like
when the trip actually makes it out of

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the group chat and everyone's just kind
of looking at each other like, wow,

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we're here. Like it was kind
of like that, and you know,

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we were still working full time,
Like we were working full time.

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Ve tech work is no joke.
You know, you have ten to twelve

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hour shifts. You're essentially obviously a
nurse for animals, and our work schedules

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reflected that, and so we would
be working ten to twelve hour shifts and

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then come home, have, you
know, shove some food in our face,

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and then research and record and try
and figure out how to edit.

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And it was just a chasing Yeah. Yeah. How long did it take

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you to get comfortable listening to yourself
talk that? I never listened back,

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really, I never listened back.
Now after we well, obviously we had

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to edit for quite a while and
it was awful. It was just kind

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of like I was like, God, do I sound like that's the whole

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world? And then once we the
only team member that we have is our

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editor, and we love her very
much. Her name is Lauren, and

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she has been the best thing that
ever happened. Did you have learned from

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the beginning? No? Okay,
awesome? No. I remember when we

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first started editing, and specifically when
I would edit, because she would edit

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her episode, I would edit my
episodes and I would go through and I

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would delete every breathing noise that there
was. I would it would take me.

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It would be an hour episode and
it would take me eight hours to

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edit it. And it sounded horrible. It was just like it didn't flow

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well. I mean, I didn't
know how to edit very well, so

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we sounded like we were underwater when
we recorded. I was in a closet.

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You know. It was just it
was it was rough. I think

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about a lot, like a lot
of those early episodes, because this went

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on for I don't know how it's
been with you got you guys look like

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you got the setup, Like right
now, you got it. It's evoked,

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it's evolved. You would see earlier
pictures. It's in my office in

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my house, and it's like a
The table we're at is my wife's childhood

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kitchen table that I've spray painted and
drilled holes through, and we've kind of

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vowed to be like, hey,
maybe we just always keep the table.

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But we just slowly get more and
more equipment, and it's kind of faked

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till you make it. Yeah,
you know. Yeah, we would spend

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a ton of time, you know, tinkering with the audio and everything,

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and I think we eventually learned that
you just got to buy better mics.

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Yeah, that's really what I get
down to. Yeah. Yeah, well,

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because we think, I mean,
at least I reflect back on a

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lot of our earlier episodes because I
would say, I don't know when Lauren

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came onto the scene, but it
wasn't like we said very like it was

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a very episode forty or sixty or
like it was, we were in it.

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And like a lot of those early
episodes I think back on, like,

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I know, our audio scared away
a good amount of people and maybe

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didn't they didn't listen to the stories
because it sounded so bad. But it's

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like, should we retell some of
those stories because they're really good? But

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yeah, I think it's kind of
just in the past. It is what

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it is. It's part of the
evolution, and I've thought about that.

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Actually, you know, the first
like ten episodes would be kind of fun

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to just redo them. Yeah,
Like now there is very few people who

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go back and like back catalog.
Yeah, and when they do, they

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let us know. They're like,
I've been binging. You guys have gotten

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way better. I think sometimes they're
sarcastic about it too. We had someone

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say they listen like twelve hours a
day. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure

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they're not. Well I hope they're
not. That'd be bad. Yeah,

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So I guess what what we skipped
is what does your show cover? Like,

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We're very specific. We obviously go
off a little bit and do some

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paranormal stuff, but we're mostly people
who go missing unexplained. What so you

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guys, are you only national parks? Are you tell the audience kind of

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for the people who you didn't bring
to our show that are listening to this,

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what your show is about? Yeah? So ours. It's called National

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Park after Dark, and we do
try to stay with national park stories.

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However, sometimes do we stray.
But national park sites are so different than

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just national parks. It's not just
these huge parks that you think of when

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you think of yose or the Grand
Canyon. There are so many national park

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sites as well, national historic sites, national monuments, things like that that

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we definitely include in our content.
And the fun thing about national parks is

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there are so many things that have
happened there and there are so many stories

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depending on where you are, and
with the national historic parks, we find

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that there's a lot of historical,
very interesting stories that have happened over the

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years. And then we also find, of course in national parks, there's

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rescue stories, there's survival stories,
there's tragic accidents, there's there's weather,

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really bad weather that occurs, and
then there's also true crime aspect, because

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so we kind of dabble in every
single genre that we can find. If

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it happens in a national park and
it's interesting, we'll talk about it.

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It's fair game, Yeah, it's
game. So yeah, like Cassie was

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saying, there's know, when people
think of national parks, you think of

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like the sixty three Big Crown Jewels, But there's over well over four hundred

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National park managed sites throughout the country. And we didn't say we're US based.

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There are national parks around the world, so that at first, like

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I think we had a fleeting thought
maybe six months into the show of like,

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oh shit, like this is kind
of going well, and what if

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we run out of things? Like
what if we didn't even think of that,

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Oh we've been there. Yeah.
But then, like you know,

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as as you go through the process
of researching different things, like sometimes you're

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researching a story, which I'm sure
you guys can attest to your researching one

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story or subject and there's a tiny
footnote within your research that opens the doors

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to a whole nother story you wouldn't
have never come across, so it's just

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kind of like rabbit hole after rabbit
hole. And sometimes we'll go out out

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searching, like I want a story
in the bad lands, so let's find

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one, but very rarely does it
happen like that. It's more organic.

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That's good. Yeah, And I
mean we've covered story I mean you run

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out of national parks and then you
got your national forests, and then you've

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got your state parks. We've covered
stories in state parks and then just areas

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with trees it's outside. And we've
covered stories in Scotland, in South America,

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Australia. So I mean, you're
right. I thought for a little

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while it's like we're gonna run out
of stuff to cover, and then you're

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just like, wow, no,
I'm not. Yeah, it's never ending,

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and there's always new stories. Sadly, yeah, I mean, yeah,

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there's always a new case. And
I don't know if you found this

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with your fans. A lot of
our stories and maybe the last two years

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have been fan reck like listener recommended. Now we don't even have to go

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out and find the story. We're
getting emails from people listening like you should

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look into this case and cases I've
never even heard of before until someone email

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listen to us, and they're really
interesting. Absolutely. I think the last

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maybe three I've covered our all fan
recommendations, and we have a whole list

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that we you know, just backlogs
of things that either were interested in or

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have been fan suggestions, or during
our own travels when we are in parks

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ourselves and see something on an information
board, we'll take a picture of it,

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make a note of it, and
it goes on the list. So

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yeah, I have a whole note
section in my phone that is like forty

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recommendations from listeners, and then I
have another note section in my phone that

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is everything I've ever come across that
I find interesting and I want to look

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into it more, but maybe I
don't have the time in that moment.

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So if I'm member like, huh, what should I cover today, I'll

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go through the list and I'll just
like start looking into ones that I already

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have written down. That's always nice. You got that backlog to go off

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of, and it's kind of a
little bit of a kind of a close

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knit community. We have a i
would say, like a working friendship with

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the guy who runs the Strange Outdoors
website. So We haven't recently, but

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a lot of time in the past
we've kind of collaborated with him. We've

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either he's given us some of his
research, or we'll do a case and

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then he'll do an article off our
episode for his website. And uh,

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yeah, it's the The cases are
endless, that's what I yeah. Yeah,

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So what would be what's both yours? I'd say favorite stories that you

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covered, your favorite one and the
one that freaks you out the most.

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That might be one and the same. Okay, you could go first studio.

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Well, you know, that's so
tough. It's very tough because obviously

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the beauty of you know, creating
the show is you get to there's no

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one telling you what to research and
want to cover. You get to choose,

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and because of that, we cover
stories that we really enjoy or want

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to learn more about. So it
is hard to choose. But I would

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say my favorite type category genre of
stories to research personally are animal encounters.

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I absolutely love that, just because
we always put or attempt to put some

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sort of conservation twist to it.
It's not like this big bad wolf type

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of approach that we take to any
animal story. So I really enjoy the

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fact that we can interject some information
that helps kind of destigmatize the fear,

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even if the story is brutal and
scary. So going off of that,

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the story that I think stuck with
me the most, and I think pretty

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much all of our listeners that have
been around up until that point Night of

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the Grizzlies, which Cassie covered,
so I didn't have to research it.

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I got to listen to it.
I was traumatizing to research yeah and listen

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to yeah. So Night of the
Grizzlies for sure was like my number one.

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I think it's fascinating. It's obviously
a huge story for a reason.

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But yeah, animal encounter stories are
definitely my favorite. So Night of the

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Grizzlies, can you give like the
elevator pitch of what that was about?

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And then do you know what episode
it is so everyone can go we can

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look it up. I can look
up. It's one of our very I

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want to say it's episode thirteen.
It's very early. You're going to be

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underwater if you're listening to it.
But good. Yeah, So long story

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short. Again, I didn't research
it, so Cassie might have to fill

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in the blanks here. The long
story short in the indocumented history for Glacier

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National Park, up until this point
in the nineteen sixties, there had never

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been a fatal grizzly malling or incident. And then one night in the nineteen

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sixties, two different women got attacked
by two separate grizzlies and two separate areas

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of the park on the same night
and were killed and consumed and super rare

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for bears to do that. It's
super rare at face value, but Cassie

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went into the fact that there's a
reason for it, and the reason was

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the National Park System was actively feeding
bears and it was a it was a

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tourist attraction. If you went to
Glacier National Park up until that point,

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there would be stadium bleachers. The
National Park Service would feed the bears.

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You can go see the bears,
So they were basically habituated animals. And

285
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yeah, so there's a whole backstory
of not only the tragedies for those two

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women and the people who were with
them, but also how bear management had

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had changed since then, and what
the National Park Service has learned and what

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we have learned as visitors to wild
places and how to be more responsible when

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we're in places with wild animals,
and so anyway, it just was like

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all the best of all of the
world that I love, and she presented

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00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:22.799
it so beautifully, and it obviously
has just really stuck with a lot of

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people because it's horrifying. I mean, the detail she goes into, it's

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real, it's rough, it's rough. I mean, it was a gruesome

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story. And I will say part
of that too was the National Park Service.

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Not only were they encouraging the feeding
of bears, but also they didn't

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have a lot of research on grizzlies
in general, and they considered grizzlies to

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be as dangerous as a black bear
or a deer. They just like they

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didn't And even now we're getting a
lot of stuff recently where black bears are

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really dangerous. So there's always this
new research that's happening. But at the

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time time, when Night of the
Grizzlies happened, it changed the way the

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Park Service looked at it, and
they said, like, hold on a

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second, maybe grizzlies are a lot
more dangerous, and they looked at it

303
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as a whole and now there's whole
bear safety seminars that go on within Glacier

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National Park because of it, and
across yeah, and across the National Park

305
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Service as a whole, because Glacier
wasn't just the only park participating in those

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activities, and so it changed the
way that not only people like us visitors

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go and recorate in wild places with
animals, but also you know, the

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Park Service themselves and things like that. So well, I really like the

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message you give on the conservation aspect
of it too, because we always talk

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about how if you're hiking in bear
country, you really need to follow the

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rules about you know, food storage, cooking, because the sad thing is

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as soon as a bear attacks,
you know, a hiker, they're going

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to go out there and shoot that
bear. I mean, so you know,

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and you can just prevent this by
just following you know, simple rules.

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00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:07.640
And it's not the bear's fault,
it's not we're in their house,

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00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:10.359
but that's their home, not our
home. Like, so you need to

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00:24:10.359 --> 00:24:12.680
follow the rules or you know,
these animals will get you know, because

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the park rangers and I get why
they do that, because once a bear

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gets the taste of you know,
human food, it's it's done. That's

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what they're going to pursue. And
yeah, it's really important, especially for

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00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:26.640
people that don't ever hike to know, like, yeah, you know it's

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really important to bring a bear cake
and put your food in the tree and

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you know, cook properly, and
so yeah, that's great that you guys

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you know, talk about that because
and not just with bears, you know,

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any wildlife just leave them alone,
yes, I mean, yeah,

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don't put them in a bad situation, and don't put yourself in a bad

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situation and go in educated, which
is so important in any wild space,

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under any circumstance, whether it's with
wildlife or the landscape that you're in.

329
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:56.000
It's just such an important message to
know where you are, know how to

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recreate safely where you're traveling to,
and you know, leave it, leave

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00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:02.680
it the way you so others can
enjoy it. Yeah, I mean that's

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00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:04.880
the big thing too. Don't three
you trash around and but yeah, I

333
00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:10.119
know, so that's a great aspect
of the message. Did you know what

334
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:12.559
to do? Did you find the
number? Oh? Yes I did.

335
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:15.960
It's seventeen and eighteen. Oh you
were closed. It was two parter.

336
00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:19.839
Yeah, it was a two parter. Yeah that's awesome. So yeah,

337
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:25.160
episode seventeen and eighteen. Uh,
it'll be underwater too bad, And yeah,

338
00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:26.480
you guys are worry about it,
you know. You know what I've

339
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:30.240
learned. It's very interesting what I've
what I've learned. I have friends that

340
00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:34.799
are in business that I've been in
business with that are like brutally honest,

341
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:38.240
and that's why they're friends of mine. And I've asked them about like our

342
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:41.079
older episodes and said, yeah,
you can tell it's not great quality,

343
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:45.720
but if the story's good, it's
it doesn't bug people as much. Yeah,

344
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So I think I think as podcasters
we look at the episode a lot

345
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:52.680
harsher than some of the listeners do. So there's a reason you guys are

346
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:56.400
big, and it's not because they
were deterred when it wasn't as good.

347
00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:00.960
I always think every episode's bad.
Yes, you do. You if you

348
00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:04.279
think everything's bad, No, it's
not true. And most of it,

349
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:07.960
most of the time. And Mike's
like, should we not do that one?

350
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:10.119
I'm like, no, we're doing
it. We're doing it. You're

351
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:14.680
just a critical It just seems that
you care a lot about what. You

352
00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:18.920
put a lot of time and effort
in it, and you want it to

353
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:22.519
be perfect. And we've we've given
up on the perfect part. Yeah,

354
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:30.440
all right, Cassie, your turn. I mean, for the most impactful

355
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:34.119
one, I would agree with the
Knight of the Grizzlies. Another one that

356
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:37.240
I think would come in a close
second was also one that I covered,

357
00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:41.240
and it was the Jenny Lake Rangers
in Grand Teton National Park, and I

358
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.680
covered a story about a group of
people who were all struck by lightning at

359
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.960
the same time on the Grand while
they were climbing in a lightning storm,

360
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:56.039
and people lost their lives, and
it was really tragic and horrible, but

361
00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:02.240
within that it's really interesting to see
the rescue teams that go out there.

362
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:06.000
I mean, the Jenny Lake Rangers
are considered one of the most elite rescue

363
00:27:06.039 --> 00:27:10.799
teams in the National Park system,
and these people are I don't remember,

364
00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:14.079
I haven't researched this in a while, so don't quote me or anything that

365
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:17.559
this is like exactly what happened.
But this first group, it took them

366
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:22.119
like I think nine hours or so
just to get on the Grand and their

367
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:26.599
rescue team comes in and they're up
there in two hours. So they're just

368
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:32.440
they're extremely fit in shape, they're
great climbers, they're amazing at their job

369
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:37.799
with rescuing and going into that and
learning really how much goes into being part

370
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:42.039
of a rescue team was really interesting
to me. And then the fact that

371
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:48.000
the people who did survive this only
survived because they were so skilled in what

372
00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:52.480
they do and got up there in
time to help them. So I just

373
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thought that that episode was extremely interesting. And it happens to be in one

374
00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.480
of my favorite national parks, so
that was so cool too. Yeah,

375
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:03.400
Joe, you haven't hiked there,
have you? I have hiked there,

376
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:04.799
Oh you have? Yeah, I
have two. It's it's a really cool

377
00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:10.759
park. Yeah, it is so
I actually we have a camera issue Joe's

378
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:15.119
dealing with that. I was looking
through some of your episodes and I I

379
00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:19.039
want to just ask your thoughts on
a couple episodes you did, And there's

380
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:25.880
one in particular that Joe and I
have batted around talking about. But it's

381
00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:30.440
just so it's such a sad and
terrifying story, and I think this was

382
00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:34.240
this might have been one of your
subscriber only episodes, but it was on

383
00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:41.839
the Nutty Putty Cave. No,
do you want to just just fill the

384
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:48.240
listeners in just the elevator pitch?
Because this after I heard about that story.

385
00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:52.799
I spent like a month reading about
it out of like just morbid curiosity

386
00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:56.759
and just trying to put myself not
only in his shoes, but in like

387
00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:00.319
the rescuer shoes that have to go
in there and try to try to get

388
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.920
this guy out. I don't know
the story, so this would be great

389
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:11.839
for me. You haven't heard about
the Nutty Putty Cave. So that is

390
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:17.160
a story that I covered, and
I will say it is one of my

391
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:22.359
least favorite stories that I've ever covered. And it's not because it's a bad

392
00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:26.519
story, because it's I mean,
it's a horrific story and there's a lot

393
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.160
of lessons to be learned in it, but I personally am claustrophobic. And

394
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:36.119
it is a cave story, a
caving accident story, and it's also extremely

395
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.279
it's extremely sad. So basically,
this man went into the Nutty Putty Cave,

396
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:45.240
which is now closed. It's in
Utah, and he went in splunking

397
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:55.480
cave diving basically with a friend,
and he got lost in the tunnels and

398
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:57.720
he went one way thinking it was
the way that he needed to go,

399
00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:02.559
and it was, but he thought
he was in the right section so he

400
00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:07.039
thought he had to squeeze through this
really small area before he got to this

401
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.960
big opening, which was not the
case. It actually he was going downwards,

402
00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:18.920
which he didn't realize, but he
got stuck upside down and he was

403
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.799
basically his head was all the way
down and his feet were all the way

404
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:27.839
up. That's how upside down he
was. There's like a graphic not graphics,

405
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:33.000
am info infographic, yeah of it, so you can see likes the

406
00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:38.759
shave system, how he was stuck. That sounds absolutely awful. Yeah,

407
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:45.279
gets worse, It gets way worse. So he's stuck and his friend tries

408
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:48.839
to get him out and he can't, so they call in a rescue crew

409
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.960
which gets there and he is so
stuck that there. They have a really

410
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:56.160
hard time getting him out. And
actually the way that he's stuck, the

411
00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:00.440
way that the tunnel goes, is
that they would have to said, actually

412
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:06.279
break his legs to bend him in
the way that they would need to to

413
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:10.960
get him out of this cave.
So they were trying everything that they could

414
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:14.240
to get him out. They were
trying really hard. They had doctors and

415
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:17.759
nurses down there. He had an
ivy for to try and help with some

416
00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:21.480
of the symptoms because when you're upside
down for a really long time, all

417
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:25.799
the blood rushes to your brain and
it's actually really detrimental to your organs and

418
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:30.920
especially specifically your heart. So he
was down there for a long time.

419
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:36.440
I mean, he was on the
phone with his family and his wife during

420
00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:42.240
this was there, it was right
above and unfortunately they tried for really long

421
00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:45.680
time to get him out and they
couldn't in time, so he just slowly

422
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:52.400
died in the worst way possible with
everybody there, yeah, on the surface

423
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.480
and with rescue teams like trying so
hard. He went into cardiac arrest,

424
00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:00.519
and he didn't make it out.
Yeah, it is it's almost better that

425
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:04.680
he did and just died right away
instead of it just being drawn out over

426
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:07.759
a long period of time and giving
hope to his family and everything who are

427
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:13.119
actively having conversations with him while this
is all going on. It was just

428
00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:16.279
like every part of it is so
sad and so horrific. And one of

429
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:21.680
the worst parts about this story is
that a similar story had happened here,

430
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:24.559
like I think it was the year
before or a couple of years prior to

431
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:28.960
this incident, where someone got stuck
in a bad way and they had to

432
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.680
be rescued, but they did get
him out in time, and they should

433
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:36.839
have shut the cave down then,
but they didn't and then this incident,

434
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:42.200
so it was the same cave,
same system. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

435
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:45.119
I don't ever want to do that
stuff. I mean we've gone I

436
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:49.720
don't know what did we do the
slot canyons, but like you're not squeezing

437
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:52.920
through places. I mean we could
fit, you know, fit through them

438
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:55.400
pretty with you know packs. I'm
never going to be where I have to

439
00:32:55.440 --> 00:33:00.799
squeeze through something. No way.
Yeah, it was is really rough.

440
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:05.200
That was one of the first subscriber
episodes. That was early. I wrote

441
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:07.599
it. I wrote the day,
doown of it? You guys did it

442
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:13.240
on I'm old school. I wrote
it all down, yeah, before I

443
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:19.720
used to Quilli. April twenty second
of twenty twenty one was when you released

444
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:23.599
it, so four months into the
show. Yeah yeah, I just I

445
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:28.640
Joe and I've thought about You've thought
about doing like a Patreon episode for a

446
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:30.680
long time and it's not really kind
of the you know, the topic we

447
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:35.480
covered and it's like horrific story,
like you said, Yeah, I didn't

448
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:37.519
like hearing about it, so I
know, I give you know, kind

449
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:42.559
of a little you know, anxious
just hearing about it. There's a movie,

450
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:45.839
right, isn't there a movie about
it? One hundred and twenty seven

451
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:49.839
Hours was about No, no,
no, not that movie. I want

452
00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:54.599
to say, there's a movie about
maybe like a documentary or something. Yeah,

453
00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:59.880
there's probably something because if I mean
that just sounds exactly what I don't

454
00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:04.599
know. Maybe not, I mean, yes, The Last Descent is based

455
00:34:04.599 --> 00:34:07.519
on the two thousand and nine rescue
attempt of John Edward Jones and Nutty Putty

456
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:13.599
Cave. Wow. Actually that kind
of sends from watch I probably watched.

457
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:17.559
I do not remember movies for like
the life of me. Like some people

458
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:22.840
can remember quotes and resay an entire
movie after they watch it. I brain

459
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:27.360
dump it within two weeks, like
I've never seen that before. That's why

460
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:30.239
I'm never gonna watch that movie,
because I'm the person who remembers every aspect

461
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:32.159
of a movie, so that will
just be stuck in my head. I

462
00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:36.480
had a friend growing up that would
ruin movies because he would, like,

463
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:38.239
you watch Dumb and Dumber, and
he would know every line and say it

464
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:44.800
before they would say it on the
movie just to impress you. Yeah,

465
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:49.159
no, so that that was really
uh one of the episodes that stuck out

466
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:55.119
to me. Another another question I
had is Joe and I love doing paranormal

467
00:34:55.159 --> 00:34:59.800
episodes. We don't do them very
often because we found that they actually are

468
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:04.800
the least popular, but we like
doing them. And I did notice that,

469
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:07.039
you know, you kind of mix
in every now and then like a

470
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:13.760
paranormal paranormal episode. I was just
on a little mini vacation and I went

471
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:16.719
to a town in Wisconsin called ryan
Lander where they have a legend of this

472
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:25.559
thing called a hodagg I bought a
bobblehead for the studio, So, yeah,

473
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:30.400
we got these in Wisconsin, northern
Wisconsin, Yeah, Rylander. So

474
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:36.119
I was just wondering if if there's
any you know, cool urban legends that

475
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:39.760
you guys have covered that you really
find fascinating or you know, like we

476
00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:43.679
could do like a pop quiz like
do you believe in Bigfoot? Do you

477
00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:51.719
believe? Or like is there anything? Yes, Are there any like urban

478
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:55.760
legends or anything like that that you've
had fun covering and think are real or

479
00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:00.840
think are cool but kind of a
joke. Well, I would say right

480
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:05.639
off the bat. I mean,
the easiest ones to pick at obviously are

481
00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:08.440
big Foot, and we do kind
of lump in. It's hard to say,

482
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:14.679
like the alien category, is that
cryptid? Is that paranormal? What

483
00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:19.760
is that? But we have done
a couple alien based episodes just because I

484
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:25.199
believe, and I think Cassie does
too, and and but anyways, so

485
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:28.639
oh yeah, look at my wallpaper. I don't know if you can see

486
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:35.800
my wall it's alien elections. So
yeah, But anyways, as far as

487
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:39.960
like urban legends, I don't think
we've covered necessarily that. What we have

488
00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:45.679
done and I say we, but
Cassie has done the majority of them is

489
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:52.719
more so of native and indigenous legends
that have taken form or shape over the

490
00:36:52.840 --> 00:37:00.480
years and have been just cemented into
different areas and thus different national parks.

491
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:06.000
And the first one that comes to
mind right away is that we were just

492
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:10.079
talking about today actually randomly is the
Wind to Go up in Aisle Royal.

493
00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:15.280
And we also you also covered spear
Finger, which is in the Great Smoky

494
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:22.039
Mountains National Park. Yes, yeah, just different native legends that kind of

495
00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:25.280
began as like I'm not I kind
of forget the Wind to Go thing.

496
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:30.199
You might have to refresh my memory. But Spearfinger was definitely like a lot

497
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:37.199
of those legends have to do with
like they were kind of tales that were

498
00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:42.400
shared as kind of like warnings to
like children to like be good or like

499
00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:45.920
stack around and you know things like
that. So those are really cool and

500
00:37:46.119 --> 00:37:52.320
it's not necessarily whether or not we
believe in the those entities. It's more

501
00:37:52.400 --> 00:38:00.000
of like honoring the stories of the
indigenous cultures and we love sharing them.

502
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:02.639
Yea. And have you done any
episodes? I think I saw you did

503
00:38:02.679 --> 00:38:07.320
one episode on maybe the Bermuda Triangle. Do you ever you do like location

504
00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:15.920
like paranormal locations maybe or yeah,
so I'm pretty sure that one was.

505
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:22.400
God, you're like really raking us, my god, do that. I

506
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:28.760
remember you did the Bermuda Triangle,
but it wasn't just the Bermuda Triangle.

507
00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:32.239
You also did one in Vermont.
I didn't do the Bermuda Triangle. I

508
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:38.800
did the Bermuda Triangles of North America. It was the last of Vermont.

509
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:46.320
And somewhere in your set California,
you have viral vortices or something like that.

510
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:51.159
There's like certain areas were like grab
different man. It was where Steve

511
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:53.039
Fawcett went down. I think he
went down in one. Yeah, I

512
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:57.639
don't know, I could be wrong, but yeah, Well, like Cassie

513
00:38:57.679 --> 00:39:00.239
said, we brain dump a lot
of this stuff, especially things from like

514
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:05.079
three years ago. But yeah,
no, we've definitely done that. I

515
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:10.199
mean, and of course it's hard
to kind of toe the line between because

516
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:19.639
when I remember doing that particular episode
in Vermont, that area, and particularly

517
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:23.039
in Alaska, the first few things
that you see when you're going to do

518
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:30.199
research on stories is like, especially
those are like the paranormal, like they

519
00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:34.760
were adopted by aliens or whatever the
heck happened, you know, But when

520
00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:37.199
you actually look at it, it's
like that area in Alaska actually has like

521
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:43.079
the highest rate of missing and murdered
Indigenous women, And it's like is it

522
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:47.719
paranormal or is it you know,
something something else that we need to pay

523
00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:52.239
attention to. And it's fun,
you know, like as you guys can

524
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:57.679
probably relate to, it's fun to
do lighter hearted paranormal stuff and just kind

525
00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:00.840
of toss around like is this real? Is it not real? Like you

526
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:05.960
know, kind of take some of
the heaviness off of your regularly scheduled well

527
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:07.599
and you can have fun with it. I think that that fun is the

528
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:13.400
operative word, because you really don't. It's it's we run into this a

529
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:15.840
lot. We don't have fun doing
it. We like doing the show and

530
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:19.400
do it, but it's not like
you're you're reveling in people being killed or

531
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:22.960
going missing or like the painted cause
we tell the stories. But when you

532
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:24.719
do the paranormal ones, it is
fun. You can talk about the ho

533
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:29.639
Degg, this weird monster that apparently
lives in Ryanland or Wisconsin for some reason.

534
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:34.440
And my kids all play hockey,
so we have there's a Hoegg tournament

535
00:40:34.519 --> 00:40:36.880
so that you go to the ice
ring. They have a giant ho egg

536
00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:39.239
that shoots smoke out of it,
and they like it's a huge tourist attraction.

537
00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:43.800
They have a giant statue in town, and it's like it's like some

538
00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:47.519
guy's story from like a hundred years
ago. Yeah, like Cassie is done

539
00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:55.119
where god like the castle, the
Haunted Castle okay, oh Godly England,

540
00:40:55.320 --> 00:41:00.760
Yeah, the x More Castle over
there, and just like Hiss historically based,

541
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:06.280
a lot of stuff has happened there. But then there's these supposed entities

542
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:10.079
that are still living there and there's
all these stories and sometimes we even go

543
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:14.320
to these places. I mean,
we've been to quite a few haunted places.

544
00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:17.800
I would say now, been to
the Crescent Hotel in Arkansas was one,

545
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:23.719
the Stanley Hotel in Estes. I
went to the what was it called

546
00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:31.039
the Dartmoor Dartmore Castle in the UK. We did. I mean, I

547
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:36.679
take Cassie to a lot of places
that are unofficially haunted, that are definitely

548
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:39.400
haunted. A lot of them are
officially haunted. I was like, hey,

549
00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:43.159
Daniel, I like telling you stories, but I don't want to be

550
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:45.039
haunted. And she's like, cool, I just booked us this hotel.

551
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:50.239
Show me a picture of it.
And I'm like this one time, this

552
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:53.480
one time, I will never forget. We were in Arkansas and she was

553
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.880
like, oh yeah, I booked
this hotel. Like it's a little older,

554
00:41:55.960 --> 00:42:00.559
and like okay, sure, and
I'm the GPS. I'm driving and

555
00:42:00.599 --> 00:42:05.199
I get there and I'm like and
we pull up to it and there's a

556
00:42:05.239 --> 00:42:07.840
parking lot across the street and I
pull in the parking lot so I have

557
00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:09.920
a full view of this hotel we're
about to stay in. I'm like,

558
00:42:10.519 --> 00:42:15.559
is this it? She's like yeah, yeah, this is it. The

559
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:22.280
top windows were shattered. Outside there
were like old mattresses that were like leaned

560
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:27.960
against the windows with the broken windows. The front of it is like so

561
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:32.679
run down. There's a blinking light
on the outside. It's just everything you

562
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:37.199
would think a horror movie would be. It was, And I was like,

563
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:40.719
all right, I guess I'm going
inside this building. And we get

564
00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:49.960
inside and it's exactly the same inside, dilapidated. Yes, we walk to

565
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:52.840
our room, it's upstairs. We
walk up the set of stairs and it's

566
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:58.400
this really dark hallway with like a
couple flickering lights. It's the middle of

567
00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:01.840
the day, but it's completely dark
in there. There's these old pictures on

568
00:43:01.880 --> 00:43:06.000
the wall, like a really old
it looks like a really old hotel.

569
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:08.400
And I'm like, all right,
this is definitely where I get haunted for

570
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:13.480
sure. So has it happened yet. She's brought you to all these places

571
00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:19.599
have you? Have you been haunted? She's had a couple of feelings,

572
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:24.599
She's had a couple feelings of things
not line like touched or anything. Yeah,

573
00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:30.000
okay, yeah, I like things
with character. Okay, sue me,

574
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:35.719
you know what. I like that
too, because what I've learned over

575
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:37.519
the years of doing trips. Whenever
your trip goes perfect and you do all

576
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:40.960
this, it's not as memorable.
It's when you have issues or you go

577
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:45.199
to places like that. Look at
you're laughing about it. It was it

578
00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:49.039
made the trip, Yeah exactly.
But you Yeah, so all you gotta

579
00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:51.719
think about is when you're in that
situation like this is me a great story

580
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:55.360
later if we make it out alive. Yeah. Right, I will say

581
00:43:55.400 --> 00:44:00.639
that you have definitely made me appreciate
older historic tells a lot more because they're

582
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:06.599
way cooler than going to like a
dais In or something like that, where

583
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:09.840
they're all just generic. They're a
lot more interesting. It's just my one

584
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:14.239
rule is I if I get haunted, I'm not allowed to be touched.

585
00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:15.920
Like I would literally go in our
hotel rooms. I'm like, all right,

586
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:19.719
I know it's I know it's haunted
in here. I detail, so

587
00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:25.039
don't touch me. You make like
a salt circle and sleep in it on

588
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:30.039
the floor. Yeah, And we
always like we never get separate bedrooms.

589
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:35.440
And even the one time we had
a room that had two beds or two

590
00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:38.800
rooms or two rooms in the same
like suite. Sure they were connected.

591
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:44.960
Whatever, yeah, no, we
didn't use. The second was so haunted.

592
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:47.840
It was like the most haunted hotel
in America or something, and we

593
00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:50.960
looking. Daniel's like, I'm going
to sleep in here and be like,

594
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:58.519
yeah, me too. So I'm
going to call you for hotel recommendations next

595
00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:01.920
time I go somewhere selling in those
places. That sounds amazing. That's actually

596
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:06.199
a great segue. So you guys
do listener trips, which is something I

597
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:08.920
want to get into. Although you
have kids now, yeah, we're all

598
00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:12.039
growing up, so I could do
it. So tell us about your listener

599
00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:19.320
trips. Yeah, cool. Yeah, So we started last year and we

600
00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:23.440
started off with one thinking that you
know, this would be fun to do

601
00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:30.440
if anyone is interested or would be
interested, and it was wildly successful.

602
00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:37.519
Our first trip we launched was an
Alaska trip, and we don't bring anyone

603
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:43.880
into dilapidated haunted hotels on purpose,
so that's not part of the ntenerary.

604
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:50.280
But yeah, so we've done last
year, we did six or seven.

605
00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:55.480
We take listeners. The group sizes
vary depending on what we're doing, whether

606
00:45:55.599 --> 00:46:00.480
they're all camping or an outdoor based
which we done in Alaska and Canada.

607
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:05.639
Then we have kind of like half
and half ones. We went to Patagonia,

608
00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:09.440
which was very outdoor based, but
we stayed in hotels instead of tents,

609
00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:15.440
and then that there's been some that
are all like cultural based, which

610
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:21.639
primarily was Egypt, where we just
did a lot of sight seeing and museums

611
00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:27.400
and things like that. But we
try and pick itineraries that we enjoy.

612
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:34.440
That is kind of just like a
translation of our show content into real life

613
00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:37.519
experiences. Yeah, that's absolutely awesome. Sounds really cool. Yeah, so

614
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:42.559
how many people do you get?
Like was it hard to fill or do

615
00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:45.239
you guys have enough listeners that you
were able to fill these pretty quick?

616
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:52.920
Well? Yeah, the first time
we did this, we like we were

617
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:57.239
doing an Alaska trip and we went
all out. We like filmed videos like

618
00:46:57.280 --> 00:47:00.800
we don't know who's going to respond
to this, who are people going to

619
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:05.440
be interested? We put like all
these posts all over social media like please

620
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:09.519
come with us fun and it sold
out within three minutes. Oh wow,

621
00:47:10.159 --> 00:47:15.239
it's fantastic. That's awesome, And
all of our trips have done the same

622
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:22.400
thing since. That's fantastic. So
have you had any interesting interactions with fans

623
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:28.840
on your trips? No, I
mean interesting as in like lovely people and

624
00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:32.280
a lot of really cool stories and
backgrounds. Yes, but every person who

625
00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:38.000
has ever come on our trips have
been really wonderful. And one thing about

626
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:43.039
our community that's been so great is
that it's a lot of like minded people

627
00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:45.360
who just want to be in the
outdoors, who want to adventure together,

628
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:51.599
who want to have real life experiences. And that's definitely translated when we all

629
00:47:51.639 --> 00:47:55.800
get together. I mean most of
our trips people leave with lifetime friends.

630
00:47:55.840 --> 00:48:00.679
We see them go on trips with
each other after ours has long ended.

631
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:04.320
There's a couple groups in particular where
I see them on Instagram all the time,

632
00:48:04.519 --> 00:48:07.840
meeting up across the country together,
which is amazing. So we've had

633
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:13.800
we haven't had any bad experiences in
terms of people who come on the trips.

634
00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:15.440
Yeah, that's great. I'm asking
questions because I want to do this,

635
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:17.960
so I'm like, I know a
lot of this is for me.

636
00:48:19.039 --> 00:48:22.519
Actually, it's really great. Yeah, it's a really cool idea for like

637
00:48:23.559 --> 00:48:27.599
when we used to do our big
trip every year. There's a lot of

638
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.039
planning that goes into it, a
lot of like researching where to hike and

639
00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:32.320
what to do and all that.
You know, checking the weather and everything,

640
00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:36.199
what dilapidated hotel we're going to stay? Yeah, right, And you

641
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:37.719
know, for a lot of people
who may want to do this that have

642
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:44.119
never done it before in our inexperienced
having this kind of planned out for you,

643
00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:46.800
and then obviously you two are very
experienced hikers and have done it all

644
00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:51.639
over the world. Having you two
is kind of the guides on there probably

645
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:54.320
eases their minds that like, Okay, I can do this, like I'm

646
00:48:54.320 --> 00:48:59.119
not on my by myself planning it
all and you know, figuring all this

647
00:48:59.159 --> 00:49:02.760
stuff out, so that that's a
really cool aspect of it that I can

648
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:07.360
I can see why it would be
so popular, absolutely, because it's a

649
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.239
lot of work. It's hard planning
one of these trips. I mean,

650
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:12.360
if you want to do it and
not you know, do it right.

651
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:15.360
And I think you guys put it
perfectly. You said when it finally gets

652
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:19.440
from the group chat to real like
real life, Yeah, yeah, it's

653
00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:22.320
like it's kind of surreal because you
talk about it for months and months and

654
00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:24.079
months and then you actually do it
and you're like, whoa, what's happening?

655
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:28.320
Yeah? Yeah, A lot are
a lot of our trips we put

656
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:31.039
out a year in advance, and
we're chatting on group chats and things like

657
00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:37.360
that over the year and talking about
packing lists and how excited we are,

658
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:40.960
and then we all land wherever we
are and it's like, hey, finally

659
00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:45.039
you come together. We're all here
now, and it's just an It's an

660
00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:52.480
excellent opportunity for people who you know, it's not quite solo travel, of

661
00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:54.760
course, because you're with a group, but a lot of these people are

662
00:49:54.920 --> 00:50:00.960
coming solo, so it's kind of
like this. It's like a halfway house

663
00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:08.800
between doing a full solo trip on
your own and quite frankly, for especially

664
00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:14.920
young women, that's really daunting,
especially if you're going to a different country,

665
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:19.199
somewhere you don't speak the language,
somewhere you're not familiar with, and

666
00:50:19.239 --> 00:50:23.880
you get to do that and experience
that in a way that maybe you never

667
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:29.000
would have because you know how hard
it is to get a group of people

668
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:32.840
that you know to go somewhere you
know, and sometimes if you wait around

669
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:38.079
for friends or family, it may
never happen. So we're really fortunate to

670
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:45.320
be able to provide the space for
people to move forward with something like that

671
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:51.159
that maybe they wouldn't have done before
and now have the confidence to either do

672
00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:53.920
themselves in the future, or like
Cassie said, they've made a group of

673
00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:58.760
friends that they now can go do
those things with and they don't have to

674
00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:02.119
rely on you know, they're people
at home. So it's a really cool

675
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:06.960
way to bring each other. That's
awesome that you're the catalyst for that too.

676
00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:09.760
Like, it's really neat that your
your idea that started as you guys

677
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:13.159
just enjoy hiking. You started a
show, Now you do these trips.

678
00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:16.599
You've like brought people together now that
they are lifelong traveling friends, all because

679
00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:20.960
you guys wanted to start a podcast. That's awesome. Yeah, it's kind

680
00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:24.400
of a weird butterfly effects. Yeah, just spreading joy in the world.

681
00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:28.760
That's great. I have a question
just kind of on the same topic,

682
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:32.760
but kind of more broadly to just
your your own hiking trips you've done.

683
00:51:32.840 --> 00:51:37.199
Joe and I have talked many times
on our show about the different things that

684
00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:42.000
have happened to us while hiking.
You know, for my first trip in

685
00:51:42.079 --> 00:51:45.719
Canyon Lands, run out of water
to Glacier where we were in a campground

686
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:50.320
that was attacked. We were under
bear danger. Yeah, so glacier.

687
00:51:50.679 --> 00:51:54.280
We met a guy in Utah that
literally like walked out of the bushes and

688
00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:57.679
started talking to us, and I
think he was crazy. He told us

689
00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:00.119
that he wrote a bunch of songs
for Disney and they stole And then we're

690
00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:04.000
all standing there with kind of our
hands like on our knives, ready to

691
00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:07.079
like defend ourselves to use that strange
and it came out of nowhere. Yeah,

692
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:12.880
it just like with no gear.
Yeah. But so my question is,

693
00:52:13.639 --> 00:52:16.760
you know, what are some things
that have happened to you on your

694
00:52:17.320 --> 00:52:22.000
you know, throughout the years that
you know, a close call or like

695
00:52:22.119 --> 00:52:27.440
a strange interaction with a Sometimes on
hiking trips, I'm more worried about maybe

696
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:31.000
the people I might run into versus
the animals. Like sometimes people can be

697
00:52:31.719 --> 00:52:36.559
you know, more threatening sometimes.
But so, I don't know, has

698
00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:39.880
anything happened to you on a hike
where like it was like you look back

699
00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:44.239
in hindsight, I'm like, wow, that was that was a little closer

700
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:49.519
than you know I'd like it to
be or something like that. Uh,

701
00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:57.360
I can't like off am I echoing
right now? I don't know for me,

702
00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:02.599
I I'm echoing it's on our end, Yeah, Okay, I can

703
00:53:02.719 --> 00:53:10.119
hear myself talking as I'm speaking.
It's weird. Sorry for me. As

704
00:53:10.159 --> 00:53:14.840
far as people encounters, I haven't. I've had like some strange things,

705
00:53:14.880 --> 00:53:19.840
but nothing that overtly I felt like
I was in danger. I did have

706
00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:23.079
an instance with a grizzly bear that
was very close to me when I was

707
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:28.039
in the Granteetons when I was camping. One night, I was laying in

708
00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:31.840
a tent with one of my friends
and we were in a campground there,

709
00:53:32.039 --> 00:53:37.400
and we were surrounded by people who
had RV's, and we were the only

710
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:42.280
people in tents. And I don't
know if people were kind of careless because

711
00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:45.400
they had the safety of their RVs
or what it was, but we both

712
00:53:45.480 --> 00:53:51.000
woke up in the middle of the
night and we just heard loud grunting next

713
00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:55.440
to our tent and like heavy snorting, and I remember I like slowly turned

714
00:53:55.480 --> 00:54:00.920
over to my friend and we both
just stared at each other and didn't breathe,

715
00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:06.199
just like, oh fuck, we
both just woke up and there's a

716
00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:08.199
bear outside. And at the time
we didn't know like is it a grizzly

717
00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:10.360
bear, is it a black bear? We know it's a bear. We

718
00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:15.320
know, it's very close to our
tent, and so we just waited what

719
00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:20.960
felt like a very long time,
and then I finally heard it off in

720
00:54:21.039 --> 00:54:24.840
the distance and I unzipped my little
zipper and fright underneath like the spotlight that

721
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:30.280
was on the road to get out. It was a grizzly bear. Jeez,

722
00:54:30.440 --> 00:54:35.519
yeah, grizzlies are So I had
a grizzly encounter in the tee Tomes

723
00:54:35.559 --> 00:54:38.039
as well. You're on a trail
and we came around a corner and he

724
00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:42.920
was probably like fifty feet off the
trail and he was just standing there eating

725
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:46.440
berries and he saw us and just
stopped and was scaring at us. And

726
00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:49.519
you got to look at the ground. You don't make icons. Oh yeah,

727
00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:52.079
it was k You're not challenging,
just thinking like, all right,

728
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:55.679
walk slowly, you're not at a
zoo. There's no fence, like they

729
00:54:55.719 --> 00:55:00.199
can cover fifty feet really fast.
Yes, yeah, it's a little unnerving,

730
00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:04.880
but yeah. We saw a ranger
farther down the trail and they were

731
00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:07.800
like, he's in there eating berries. He's he's not gonna bother you,

732
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:12.280
guys. They're happy, like he's
got plenty of food. But it's still

733
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:15.280
and I mean your situation. You're
in your tent and he's sniffing around like

734
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:22.360
that's terrifying. Yeah, about do
we have anything in my pocket? Oh?

735
00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:25.880
We knew we didn't because all we
had to eat that night was popcorn.

736
00:55:27.079 --> 00:55:30.079
Yeah, and I had gone around
the fire and picked up every single

737
00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:35.760
thing. And I mean there was
like maybe like two popcorns on the ground

738
00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:39.760
that fallen and everything was locked away. There was nothing near us, and

739
00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:44.599
we were just we knew that there
was nothing, But at the same time,

740
00:55:44.599 --> 00:55:46.599
we're like, is there something left
over from the RV? There was

741
00:55:46.599 --> 00:55:51.400
an RV like twenty feet from us, Yeah, is there something over there?

742
00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:53.559
And luckily I don't think there was
anything, And it was just kind

743
00:55:53.559 --> 00:56:00.400
of browsing through because it left.
But that was the closest encounter to Grizzly

744
00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:05.840
Bear I've ever close. Yeah,
closer than I would like to be Christian.

745
00:56:06.760 --> 00:56:09.760
All right, Danielle, what about
you for me? Thankfully I have

746
00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:16.360
not I've had a couple of Like
I would say, it wasn't as scary

747
00:56:16.400 --> 00:56:21.880
as Cassie's encounter, but with a
big predator on the trail. Wait,

748
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:25.280
were you with Aaron truck? Yeah? Okay, so my story also involves

749
00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:34.280
that same so it's her she's the
problem. So we she was on one

750
00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:37.559
of our group trips. She came
with us to Patagonia, and it was

751
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:39.920
just her and I on the trail
at the very end of like one of

752
00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:45.280
the longest tracks we did that whole
that whole trip. It was a very

753
00:56:45.320 --> 00:56:46.480
long day hike, and it was
on our way back. We kind of

754
00:56:46.519 --> 00:56:51.480
like broke up into little, uh
little groups on the way back, so

755
00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:53.519
it's just her and I and I
just casually looked next to me to talk

756
00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:58.519
to her mid conversation, and not
even ten feet away from her was a

757
00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:04.880
puma. So I have it one. What do you do? Well,

758
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:08.039
we assessed. I immediately said I
grabbed her. She was mid sentence,

759
00:57:08.119 --> 00:57:14.039
because that's why I looked at her
to listen to her. And I immediately

760
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:16.320
was like, I'm sorry for swearing, but I was like, hooyshit,

761
00:57:16.360 --> 00:57:22.360
hoyshit, holy shit, that's the
appropriate response. It was like, and

762
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:27.760
I grabbed her and stopped her from
walking. And I think we would have

763
00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:31.119
had a different reaction if you know, the animal was behaving differently, but

764
00:57:31.119 --> 00:57:36.639
it was very clearly in the middle
of hunting something, you know, it's

765
00:57:36.719 --> 00:57:38.920
back was to us. You could
see its ears flicking back to us.

766
00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:43.559
It knew that we were right there, you know, it was it was

767
00:57:43.639 --> 00:57:45.880
very clear it was right next to
us, but it was looking it looked

768
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:49.320
like it was hunting, like maybe
like rabbits or something, because it was

769
00:57:49.320 --> 00:57:52.000
in this little bit of a clearing
and it was just kind of doing its

770
00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:57.599
own thing, and we watched it
for maybe twenty five thirty seconds and then

771
00:57:57.639 --> 00:58:00.320
it just kind of went off into
its own thing. So it wasn't like

772
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:05.559
a scary, scary encounter, but
it was definitely startling. That sounds scary

773
00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:12.239
to me. But I will say, like, you know, fortunately or

774
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:16.280
unfortunately, depending on how you look
at it, the scariest encounters with people

775
00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:21.920
I have ever had personally have not
been on the trail. They've been in

776
00:58:22.039 --> 00:58:28.360
normal day to day life, where
I've had many times where it was very

777
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:32.440
concerning without getting into detail, but
yeah, just like in just regular day

778
00:58:32.480 --> 00:58:37.079
to day life, not something scary
in the woods or on the trail or

779
00:58:37.079 --> 00:58:40.239
anything like that. You know,
and I know, bad things can happen

780
00:58:40.280 --> 00:58:45.480
everywhere. Weird encounters can happen anywhere, but thankfully for me, that has

781
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:50.119
not happened. So actually, hold
on. This leads into like the question

782
00:58:50.159 --> 00:58:54.800
that's so I'm neurodivergent, so I
love TikTok. It's like crack the bear

783
00:58:54.960 --> 00:59:00.800
the man in the woods question.
Have you guys thought about this? Okay,

784
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:04.880
it's really Mike, what's I don't
know, I'm not familiar with this.

785
00:59:06.159 --> 00:59:07.840
You have like little kids. If
your daughter had to be in the

786
00:59:07.880 --> 00:59:12.039
woods, would you rather have her
be with a bear or a man?

787
00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:21.800
A bear? It's funny when there's
just people who know about bears and people

788
00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:24.039
who know about people. It's such
a different it's such a contentious topic,

789
00:59:24.559 --> 00:59:29.199
and both sides get angry at everybody
for answering that they answer. The vast

790
00:59:29.199 --> 00:59:34.159
majority of people we've encountered hiking have
been great, but we have come across

791
00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:38.519
some you know, odd odd ducks
along the way, of course. I

792
00:59:38.559 --> 00:59:43.480
mean, wherever there's people, you're
gonna have the you run the risk of

793
00:59:43.559 --> 00:59:47.719
running into someone who doesn't have the
greatest intentions, whether that be in the

794
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:52.760
city or in the middle of the
woods. And you know, it's just

795
00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:57.079
it's kind of a sad reality,
and bad things happen everywhere. And we've

796
00:59:57.119 --> 01:00:00.480
covered we've covered a fair amount of
you know, true, I'm based stories.

797
01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:06.280
Of course it does happen, but
personally yeah, I mean real quick

798
01:00:07.320 --> 01:00:10.039
talking about people hiking. Years ago, a group of us did a big

799
01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:15.079
hiking trip in Hawaii and we hiked
into the Kalau Valley on Quai and down

800
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:19.599
in that valley there's these I guess
you call them homeless people, but they

801
01:00:19.639 --> 01:00:23.440
live in the woods and there's this
trail it's not on a map, you

802
01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:27.639
got to ask around to find it, called the Hippie Highway. And so

803
01:00:27.719 --> 01:00:30.239
we were like, oh, this
sounds really interesting, let's go and try

804
01:00:30.280 --> 01:00:34.000
and find it. And we eventually
find it and we start hiking into the

805
01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:38.079
jungle and there's all these people just
living out there naked. They just live

806
01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:43.039
in the woods naked. They have
like a library and a farm and like

807
01:00:43.199 --> 01:00:46.239
a whole community, but they're all
just naked. And it's colony. No,

808
01:00:46.400 --> 01:00:50.119
not a newdist colony. They're just
living on the land and they just

809
01:00:50.119 --> 01:00:52.800
don't want to wear clothes, and
it sounds like a newdist colony. They

810
01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:58.840
were eating it you're describing a newist
I guess, and they no, it's

811
01:00:58.880 --> 01:01:01.480
not that at all. It they
were all drinking this mushroom soup. So

812
01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:06.840
they were all like tripping out and
but that sounds amazing to me. Mike,

813
01:01:06.880 --> 01:01:08.199
I want to go live there.
I don't know what you're talking about.

814
01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:15.639
Yeah, it's on the north side
of Kawhi. It's in the Kalau

815
01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:19.960
Valley. And so you're saying I
can go live off the land naked in

816
01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:22.199
Hawaii, you can't. The state
comes in there every couple of years and

817
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:25.559
clears everything out and then the people
kind of just move right back in a

818
01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:30.159
sign me up, I'm in.
I'm going. So there you go.

819
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:37.800
Those people are very friendly. I'll
say that. Yeah, awesome, all

820
01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:39.239
right, Joe, you were looking
like you're gonna pull Yes, I was

821
01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:43.320
gonna. I was gonna play a
couple, just three of the voicemails because

822
01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:45.239
I know we don't want to go
too much longer. But guy that talks

823
01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:49.400
about the Ford, I do.
Did we play you guys that one?

824
01:01:49.480 --> 01:01:51.400
That one's not about their show,
I know, but we'll play it at

825
01:01:51.400 --> 01:01:53.880
the end. It's it's really funny. So there's there's there's three people.

826
01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:57.760
I sent you the image of the
one girl who said she was crying,

827
01:01:57.800 --> 01:02:00.960
screaming and throwing up. We were
doing the collaboration. But there's a couple

828
01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:04.280
of them. They're really nice and
I wanted to play them because they say

829
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.360
really nice stuff about you guys too. So I'm gonna play this the first.

830
01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:09.760
I have two messages from the same
girl and then a third one.

831
01:02:10.119 --> 01:02:16.519
So here is the first. Hello, no locations and known. My name

832
01:02:16.599 --> 01:02:21.280
is Jessica ty. I just wanted
to Oh, you can't hear it at

833
01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:24.039
all? No, no, at
all. I can hear it, like,

834
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:28.440
very very faintly, but I can't
totally understand what she's saying. Oh

835
01:02:28.480 --> 01:02:30.400
that's terrible. All right, we'll
do that. We'll not do that then,

836
01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:35.320
and I'll just send it to you, Okay, I'd like to hear

837
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:37.239
it, so yeah, well i'll
send it to you. I think everyone

838
01:02:37.280 --> 01:02:39.440
that would listen to our show has
played already and I can. I can

839
01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:42.719
share it on socials too, so
I'll do that. So we'll skip that

840
01:02:42.760 --> 01:02:45.639
thing. Now. That's okay.
Let me see if I had any other

841
01:02:45.719 --> 01:02:57.760
questions. You did have some other
interesting episodes that we I won't go into.

842
01:02:57.880 --> 01:03:00.519
You covered one on the bodies of
Mount Frist, which has always fascinated

843
01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:06.159
me. That was another early one
from twenty to twenty one. I always

844
01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:10.679
just find it fascinating that the climbers
kind of use the bodies as like markers,

845
01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:15.079
like map markers almost. I kind
of know where they are on their

846
01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:21.880
way to the summit, So that
that was an interesting episode. I don't

847
01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:25.320
know any any other questions. I
would say, what's your dream trip?

848
01:03:25.360 --> 01:03:28.159
You've seen? You have gone on
a ton of them. You guys are

849
01:03:28.159 --> 01:03:31.920
just in Peru, Mantrepechu. Where's
the place you haven't gone yet? That's

850
01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:36.920
a big bucket list item. Oh
boy, that's a good one. I

851
01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:40.639
know Cassie's answer right away as we
talked about it today like three hours ago.

852
01:03:42.039 --> 01:03:45.239
Okay, she's right. What are
you going to say? But she's

853
01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:51.400
right. I one of my top
places that I really want to go that

854
01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:57.599
I haven't been yet is Norway.
Okay, Okay, why Norway? I

855
01:03:57.719 --> 01:04:01.880
just think that it's so one.
I love Nortic countries, but also just

856
01:04:01.960 --> 01:04:09.800
the I've never really seen fjords like
those in Norway before, and the landscape

857
01:04:09.880 --> 01:04:15.480
and the hiking opportunities that are there
are just they look on real se videos.

858
01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:18.559
It looks fake. It looks like
AI like someone made it up,

859
01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:23.320
Like how is this real? How
does this exist in real life? And

860
01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:28.280
I've always heard that Norwegian people are
really lovely and I'd love to like meet

861
01:04:28.280 --> 01:04:32.840
people there and just explore and camp
and hike and do all the fun stuff

862
01:04:32.840 --> 01:04:36.960
out there. So one day,
one day I'll get there. Well,

863
01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:42.559
you're in the right business to make
it happen. Yeah, that's awesome,

864
01:04:43.159 --> 01:04:46.280
all right, Danielle. So I
guess I have a little bit of a

865
01:04:46.400 --> 01:04:53.840
different answer or approach to the answer. Instead of a like specific location,

866
01:04:54.400 --> 01:05:00.559
there are kind of like events that
I would like to witness, and the

867
01:05:00.719 --> 01:05:04.519
two that come to mind are vastly
different. But the first one is the

868
01:05:04.519 --> 01:05:10.360
great migration in Africa. I would
love to see that. I think it's

869
01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:15.400
just such one of the like wonders
of the world, truly, and I

870
01:05:15.400 --> 01:05:17.599
would love to be able to see
that. Uh. So that's one thing.

871
01:05:17.719 --> 01:05:21.400
And then on the other end of
the spectrum, I know your answer

872
01:05:23.480 --> 01:05:28.320
you I don't know. I don't
know if I've ever told uh, I've

873
01:05:28.320 --> 01:05:30.480
definitely told you. I think either
way, I would like, okay,

874
01:05:30.519 --> 01:05:32.960
after I tell it, if it's
different, I need to know what you're

875
01:05:34.039 --> 01:05:42.760
for me. But I would love
to see da date lists and Maritos yeah,

876
01:05:42.840 --> 01:05:45.760
in in Mexico. I would love
UH to see that. I'm a

877
01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:51.480
huge It's not even like the morbid
curiosity thing. I just I really really

878
01:05:51.519 --> 01:05:59.199
am fascinated with uh, death rituals
and how people honor the dead throughout the

879
01:05:59.199 --> 01:06:04.199
world, and that is one of
the events that I would love to see.

880
01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:06.239
And I think I've seen videos of
that. Is that where they have

881
01:06:06.320 --> 01:06:10.719
like the big skulls and they dress
up and yeah, okay, I've seen

882
01:06:10.840 --> 01:06:13.440
videos of it. I don't know
what it's all about. So it's all

883
01:06:13.639 --> 01:06:18.440
just just honoring the dead and death
rituals. Yeah, so this is funny

884
01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:27.199
because Cassie actually did an episode on
this, but yeah, very early on

885
01:06:27.400 --> 01:06:31.559
as well. But yeah, essentially, obviously, throughout the world people view

886
01:06:31.639 --> 01:06:38.320
death in a lot of differing ways
that are a complete departure from what we

887
01:06:38.360 --> 01:06:43.960
do here in the United States and
how we handle and view and how we

888
01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:47.760
contemplate death. It's just so extremely
different and I find it fascinating. And

889
01:06:48.079 --> 01:06:54.639
anyways, so yeah, Dia de
los Mortos is one of those celebrations that

890
01:06:54.840 --> 01:06:59.000
essentially, and you know, during
a time of the year, isn't it

891
01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:03.880
November first through the third or something? Each day is like for a different

892
01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:10.320
you know, for ancestors or children
or pets or you know, deceased loved

893
01:07:10.360 --> 01:07:14.159
ones in different ways of you know, honoring them. People put out afriendas

894
01:07:14.280 --> 01:07:19.639
where you put out pictures and things
that those people loved in life and marigold

895
01:07:19.719 --> 01:07:24.920
flowers, and you talk to them
and celebrate them and bring them into their

896
01:07:24.960 --> 01:07:29.880
spirits into your home. And there's
big celebrations like you know, city wide

897
01:07:29.960 --> 01:07:33.480
and not just in people's homes individually, but throughout the country. And I

898
01:07:33.559 --> 01:07:38.639
just think it's so beautiful, and
I wish that we did something like that

899
01:07:39.079 --> 01:07:44.760
in America to honor our loved ones
instead of it being so private and kind

900
01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:49.920
of like not a storm or socially
acceptable thing. So I just would love

901
01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:56.920
to see that, just like a
country celebrate and honor the dead in the

902
01:07:56.920 --> 01:08:00.719
way that we just do not hear. So, yeah, that's beautiful.

903
01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:03.760
That sounds amazing. Now I want
to go see it. You did a

904
01:08:03.760 --> 01:08:10.280
great job of explaining it. I'm
in. Yeah, my daughter loves the

905
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:15.800
Disney movie Coco, which obsessed with
it. The fun thing about Coco,

906
01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:20.520
too is I actually watched it after
I researched the episode, and I think

907
01:08:20.520 --> 01:08:25.199
it was just it wasn't for the
research of the opposite or anything. It

908
01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:29.159
was just because I knew that it
was about it, and they actually everything

909
01:08:29.199 --> 01:08:35.000
that they reference within that movie is
accurate to DEAs dalis Morito's traditions and everything

910
01:08:35.239 --> 01:08:42.279
has They're really they're really thoughtful about
everything that they do and everything that is

911
01:08:42.319 --> 01:08:47.960
happening, and everything that you see
in Dea dalss Moritos is intentional and there's

912
01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:53.600
a purpose behind every part of it
for their loved ones who have passed,

913
01:08:53.600 --> 01:08:57.520
which is also why it is so
interesting. So and a lot of times

914
01:08:57.600 --> 01:09:00.439
with that tradition, people who aren't
familiar with it think, oh, it's

915
01:09:00.479 --> 01:09:06.840
the Mexican Halloween, and that cannot
be further from the truth because the outfits

916
01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:11.640
and the colors and everything that you
see, it's not a costume for people.

917
01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:16.000
It's a representation sure of certain beliefs
and spiritual beliefs, and it's just

918
01:09:16.119 --> 01:09:23.159
it's a it's a really cool and
interesting ritual. No, it looks really

919
01:09:23.199 --> 01:09:27.239
cool, and I would love to
see that someday as well. Just be

920
01:09:27.319 --> 01:09:30.960
cool to like travel to each day, spend a day in a different city.

921
01:09:31.079 --> 01:09:34.239
One hundred percent, Yeah, because
they I mean, it's a nationwide

922
01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:39.199
celebration, and if you look up, you know, like obviously there's a

923
01:09:39.239 --> 01:09:42.760
bunch of travel blogs and stuff out
there, as there are for everywhere in

924
01:09:42.800 --> 01:09:45.159
the world. And it's kind of
like, so you want to see you

925
01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:50.079
want to witness Da Delos Martos,
what city should I go to? And

926
01:09:50.119 --> 01:09:53.920
it's like, if you want this
type of experience, go to this city

927
01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:58.359
or this city is more about the
parade and this city is more about you

928
01:09:58.359 --> 01:10:01.319
know, in the cemeteries. And
it's just it's really cool. So I

929
01:10:01.439 --> 01:10:06.359
have some research to do for sure. But yeah, so because I've been

930
01:10:06.439 --> 01:10:10.680
to a listener trip, let's do
a joint listener trip. Just get a

931
01:10:10.720 --> 01:10:16.319
huge group, we'll all go.
Yeah. Yeah, have to do with

932
01:10:16.359 --> 01:10:21.960
the outdoors, that doesn't matter.
It's about living life and experiences. That's

933
01:10:23.000 --> 01:10:28.039
right, that's great. Well,
I guess to wrap it up, do

934
01:10:28.079 --> 01:10:30.239
you want to tell tell us how
to get to your show? Any listeners

935
01:10:30.399 --> 01:10:33.239
of our show that haven't heard of
you yet? Which how to get to

936
01:10:33.279 --> 01:10:35.720
your show, what to buy,
where to give you money, all the

937
01:10:35.800 --> 01:10:42.840
all that stuff, where to follow
you? Well, we are on every

938
01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:45.439
podcasting platform you can think of.
So if you're on Spotify, Apple,

939
01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:49.239
you can find us there. National
Park after Dark. We're on Instagram National

940
01:10:49.279 --> 01:10:55.560
Park after Dark. We're trying to
get into TikTok, but we're not there

941
01:10:55.680 --> 01:10:58.319
yet, but we have a page
if you want to hang out with us

942
01:10:58.359 --> 01:11:02.680
there. We'll post in about six
months. We might get one post in

943
01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:08.079
before it's banned. Yeah, who
goes? Who knows? Yeah, we

944
01:11:08.119 --> 01:11:15.760
have a website, npad podcast dot
com. We have there you can We're

945
01:11:15.800 --> 01:11:19.239
working on an episode directory so hopefully
that comes out in the future, but

946
01:11:19.520 --> 01:11:27.079
there you can find links to our
trips that we've were doing. We I

947
01:11:27.119 --> 01:11:31.520
don't know by the time this comes
out if we've announced our twenty five trips

948
01:11:31.560 --> 01:11:35.760
or not, so I guess won't
say anything. But but they have to

949
01:11:35.840 --> 01:11:40.239
keep going to your website and your
show to see, so just keep checking

950
01:11:40.279 --> 01:11:45.760
every day, keep checking. We
do have one already that is yet already

951
01:11:45.760 --> 01:11:49.720
booked and out there, so but
we are thinking of adding more and then.

952
01:11:50.920 --> 01:11:56.479
Yeah. We have a submission form
for Trail Tales where we have people

953
01:11:56.520 --> 01:12:01.439
write in their experiences and outdoors and
we do episodes every other week covering that.

954
01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:06.199
So there's a submission form there.
We have a Patreon as well,

955
01:12:06.399 --> 01:12:12.479
and we also have Apple subscriptions,
so if you want to be a subscriber,

956
01:12:12.520 --> 01:12:15.600
those are the two options. And
as far as giving us money other

957
01:12:15.680 --> 01:12:20.159
ways, we are. We are
trying to get merch going. It's been

958
01:12:20.199 --> 01:12:26.279
something people have been really really wanting
from us, and we are working on

959
01:12:26.319 --> 01:12:29.720
it. It's hard. We've been
talking about it for years, like T

960
01:12:29.840 --> 01:12:33.680
shirts and yeah we have we have
like we have pink hats that we got

961
01:12:33.720 --> 01:12:40.239
these. This is the most of
our merch and ones. Yes. Nice,

962
01:12:40.399 --> 01:12:43.680
Yeah, it is a merch is
you know, you don't know until

963
01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:46.439
you know, and when you know, you get it and it's it's difficult

964
01:12:46.439 --> 01:12:48.920
to navigate. We just want to
do it right, so we're working on

965
01:12:48.960 --> 01:12:53.760
it. Good, awesome, Well, thank you very much for coming on

966
01:12:53.800 --> 01:12:57.560
the show. Uh, thank you
all of the fans of n P A

967
01:12:57.680 --> 01:13:00.159
D who came over and discovered us
and vice versa. If you haven't heard

968
01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:03.119
of them, please go listen to
their show. It's fantastic. All we

969
01:13:03.199 --> 01:13:06.960
hear about and I'll post the voicemails
online because it's people that listen to both

970
01:13:06.960 --> 01:13:10.119
shows and like, you guys are
all great and if you don't know about

971
01:13:10.119 --> 01:13:13.159
this, you need to listen to
them, but no, we really appreciate

972
01:13:13.199 --> 01:13:17.159
you guys coming on and then we
always end with the lastly, when enjoying

973
01:13:17.159 --> 01:13:20.399
beauty and nature, whether backpacking,
camping, or simply taking a walk,

974
01:13:20.880 --> 01:13:26.720
always remember to leave no trace.
Thanks and we will see you all next time.