Thousands of people had mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join us as we dive
into the deep end of the unexplainable and try to piece together what happened.
And you are listening to Locations Unknown. What's up, everybody, and welcome
back to another episode of Locations Unknown. I'm your co host, Joe Erato,
and with me is always as a guy who would never ban TikTok Mike
vander Bogart. Thank you, Joe, and thank you once again to all
of the amazing listeners for tuning in. We've got a really fun episode here.
So I won't spend too much time talking here at the front end,
but I just want to give some Patreon shout outs to new subscribers. So
thank you to Amy Mitchell, Evan Wilson, Julia Reagan, Amy Hoffman,
Leanne Cole, Nikki Hogue, Paige Johnson, and Brooke Oh you better get
it right Frizzle So like miss Frizzle from Magic School Boss. I sure,
okay, probably related. Thank you so much for supporting the show. As
you can see, we're always adding a new equipment. Your contributions directly go
into everything in the studio. We've got new cameras here and we've got big
plans for the rest of this year. And if you do want to help
support the show, you can always find us on Patreon, YouTube memberships,
you can buy stuff from our stores on our website and Facebook, or just
send us money. Or just send us money. We have a pobox always
willing to accept just straight up cash. And you know, if you don't
want to give us, you know, monetary support, you can always just
spread the word about the show that helps us as well. So without that,
Joe, you got any other updates on your end, No, this
is a highly anticipated episode. As some of you know. We we just
did a collaboration with National Park after Dark and part of that deal was there
we're going to come onto our show. So without further ado, we're going
to invite on Danielle and Cassie from National Park after Dark. Welcome you,
guys, Hey guys, so hey, thanks for having us, well,
thanks for coming on. So we're excited for this. On your show,
we did a lot of talking about how we got started and we focus on
the case, and a lot of people commented that they really wanted a behind
the scenes or a studio show where we just talk about stuff, which is
weird. Weird to us because this is what we do all the time.
But I felt like this would be a perfect time for you guys to talk
about how you got your start and how you started your show. So a
little bit about yourselves and how you got how you got started. Sure,
we can definitely dive into that story. I guess just starting off the bat
as Danielle and I know each other because we used to work as vettechs together
and that's how our friendship formed originally. And we're both from southern New Hampshire,
which we used to recreate in the White Mountains of New Hampshire, so
that's how we started kind of our outdoor we were our outdoor friends of our
whole that tech office. I would say, like between everyone, we were
always like, Okay, where do we want to hike? What do we
want to do? And then I would say Danielle in particular, like brought
to the forefront her morbid curiosities, and I was like, oh hey,
I I like that. So eventually we started talking about a lot of the
things that go wrong in the outdoors and we brought them into our adventures.
I mean, I Can. The White Mountains were like a two hour drive
from us, so I can remember days where we would just read over affidavits
in cases online for the two hour drive that it would take us to actually
get to these locations. And then eventually Danielle and I both moved. I
moved to Vermont, she moved up to Washington and that's when the podcast started
to form. Watch Danielle if you want to tell that part, because you're
the one who messaged me about the idea originally. Yeah, So, like
Cassie kind of alluded to, I've always had some sense of morbid curiosity just
growing up. It's just always been kind of my thing, and it's taken
different forms and shapes over the years. But kind of like a pivotal moment
of it as far as specifically in the outdoors was when I was on a
family vacation as a lot of Americans do, to Yellowstone and I was with
my sister, my parents, and my grandparents and we stopped at the visitor
center one of the very first days, and I went immediately over to the
book section because I'm a huge bookworm, and I picked up the book by
Lee H. Whittlesey called death in Yellowstone, and I spent the rest of
our vacation cruising through that book. But it just made my experience so much
richer because I was going to these locations where so many of these stories had
taken place, you know, since records were being kept, and I would
share that with my family, which I don't know if they really took to
that super well, like oh, someone got mauled by grizzly here or somebody
wumitted their car off this ledge. You know, they're like, okay,
can you You're trying to enjoy the beauty of the park and you're just like,
here's all the people that died where we are right now. Yeah,
and they're like, okay, keep it down around like your grandparents, you
know. So that's kind of where it took form as far as the outdoors
kind of how that got braided together. And then, like Cassie said,
when we would be together, we kind of did a lot of that,
especially centered in the White Mountains. But when that move occurred, you know,
we're in different parts of the country and I had to actually instead of
just packing up a U haul and having my stuff shipped to Washington, my
partner and I at the time. We decided to take my little toe behind
camper, like barely big enough for a bed, you can't even stand fully
up in it, like it's a diny little camper. And we decided to
go from New England throughout the whole US the long way and go through and
just stay in national parks and blm land and national forests and things like that,
and just made it like an adventure out of the move. And during
that time I would be taking note of the places we were at and googling,
you know, if anything happened there, and you know, Ian God
bless him, he was like Dan yell like I'd rather not know. Can
you tell me after that after we leave it would be cool. But so
anyway, long story short. When I pulled into washing Washington, all I
was remember it was I think it was Halloween or the day before Halloween,
when I texted Cassie and I said, Hey, like, I have this
idea, why don't we kind of take what we've already been discussing and put
it into a podcast format. And she was on board right away. That's
not to say we had any idea what we were doing. We did not,
Like I like, yeah, like Cassie said, we were veterinary technicians.
We had been for years. That was our bread and butter. We
had no idea. We literally went to I mean, at least speaking for
myself, I went to Target and bought just like a microphone and plugged it
directly into my laptop and just started talking. We're like, great, this
works. No editing, no sort of any sort of equipment. That obviously
came later, and it's still evolving. Obviously, we are self taught,
and I think a lot of podcasters can, uh can relate to that.
So it's been a journey and at first, you know, we were very
surprised that we had any listeners, and then it just kind of took off
from there. Yeah, that sounds very familiar. Yeah, that's kind of
yeah, the exact same way we started. Yeah, our first episode is
sounds like we're in a tin can. Yeah we have yeah microphones on.
Yeah, my laptop sounded like a jet engine taking off. It was overheating
and yeeah. That's that's probably a very familiar to anyone to podcasts. Is
probably has a very you know, familiar origin story. Absolutely right, But
you guys, you guys stuck with it though. I think that's the key
is it's you. You stuck with it, You built a huge following.
I mean, you guys are very popular show. It's awesome. That's what
we always joked that we didn't think you would do a collaboration with us because
we're not a big enough show for you. Guys. God you'll hear in
some voicemails we have for you later some people are being nice, So like,
I think you guys would be great. This is fantastic. Yeah nice.
So how long have you been doing your show? For? It began
in January of twenty twenty one, Okay, so just over three years.
Yeah, so we had thought about it. You know, when I first
sent her that text, it's kind of like, uh, yeah, that
would be cool, and then we actually did it. It's kind of like
you seen those memes where it's like when the trip actually makes it out of
the group chat and everyone's just kind of looking at each other like, wow,
we're here. Like it was kind of like that, and you know,
we were still working full time, Like we were working full time.
Ve tech work is no joke. You know, you have ten to twelve
hour shifts. You're essentially obviously a nurse for animals, and our work schedules
reflected that, and so we would be working ten to twelve hour shifts and
then come home, have, you know, shove some food in our face,
and then research and record and try and figure out how to edit.
And it was just a chasing Yeah. Yeah. How long did it take
you to get comfortable listening to yourself talk that? I never listened back,
really, I never listened back. Now after we well, obviously we had
to edit for quite a while and it was awful. It was just kind
of like I was like, God, do I sound like that's the whole
world? And then once we the only team member that we have is our
editor, and we love her very much. Her name is Lauren, and
she has been the best thing that ever happened. Did you have learned from
the beginning? No? Okay, awesome? No. I remember when we
first started editing, and specifically when I would edit, because she would edit
her episode, I would edit my episodes and I would go through and I
would delete every breathing noise that there was. I would it would take me.
It would be an hour episode and it would take me eight hours to
edit it. And it sounded horrible. It was just like it didn't flow
well. I mean, I didn't know how to edit very well, so
we sounded like we were underwater when we recorded. I was in a closet.
You know. It was just it was it was rough. I think
about a lot, like a lot of those early episodes, because this went
on for I don't know how it's been with you got you guys look like
you got the setup, Like right now, you got it. It's evoked,
it's evolved. You would see earlier pictures. It's in my office in
my house, and it's like a The table we're at is my wife's childhood
kitchen table that I've spray painted and drilled holes through, and we've kind of
vowed to be like, hey, maybe we just always keep the table.
But we just slowly get more and more equipment, and it's kind of faked
till you make it. Yeah, you know. Yeah, we would spend
a ton of time, you know, tinkering with the audio and everything,
and I think we eventually learned that you just got to buy better mics.
Yeah, that's really what I get down to. Yeah. Yeah, well,
because we think, I mean, at least I reflect back on a
lot of our earlier episodes because I would say, I don't know when Lauren
came onto the scene, but it wasn't like we said very like it was
a very episode forty or sixty or like it was, we were in it.
And like a lot of those early episodes I think back on, like,
I know, our audio scared away a good amount of people and maybe
didn't they didn't listen to the stories because it sounded so bad. But it's
like, should we retell some of those stories because they're really good? But
yeah, I think it's kind of just in the past. It is what
it is. It's part of the evolution, and I've thought about that.
Actually, you know, the first like ten episodes would be kind of fun
to just redo them. Yeah, Like now there is very few people who
go back and like back catalog. Yeah, and when they do, they
let us know. They're like, I've been binging. You guys have gotten
way better. I think sometimes they're sarcastic about it too. We had someone
say they listen like twelve hours a day. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure
they're not. Well I hope they're not. That'd be bad. Yeah,
So I guess what what we skipped is what does your show cover? Like,
We're very specific. We obviously go off a little bit and do some
paranormal stuff, but we're mostly people who go missing unexplained. What so you
guys, are you only national parks? Are you tell the audience kind of
for the people who you didn't bring to our show that are listening to this,
what your show is about? Yeah? So ours. It's called National
Park after Dark, and we do try to stay with national park stories.
However, sometimes do we stray. But national park sites are so different than
just national parks. It's not just these huge parks that you think of when
you think of yose or the Grand Canyon. There are so many national park
sites as well, national historic sites, national monuments, things like that that
we definitely include in our content. And the fun thing about national parks is
there are so many things that have happened there and there are so many stories
depending on where you are, and with the national historic parks, we find
that there's a lot of historical, very interesting stories that have happened over the
years. And then we also find, of course in national parks, there's
rescue stories, there's survival stories, there's tragic accidents, there's there's weather,
really bad weather that occurs, and then there's also true crime aspect, because
so we kind of dabble in every single genre that we can find. If
it happens in a national park and it's interesting, we'll talk about it.
It's fair game, Yeah, it's game. So yeah, like Cassie was
saying, there's know, when people think of national parks, you think of
like the sixty three Big Crown Jewels, But there's over well over four hundred
National park managed sites throughout the country. And we didn't say we're US based.
There are national parks around the world, so that at first, like
I think we had a fleeting thought maybe six months into the show of like,
oh shit, like this is kind of going well, and what if
we run out of things? Like what if we didn't even think of that,
Oh we've been there. Yeah. But then, like you know,
as as you go through the process of researching different things, like sometimes you're
researching a story, which I'm sure you guys can attest to your researching one
story or subject and there's a tiny footnote within your research that opens the doors
to a whole nother story you wouldn't have never come across, so it's just
kind of like rabbit hole after rabbit hole. And sometimes we'll go out out
searching, like I want a story in the bad lands, so let's find
one, but very rarely does it happen like that. It's more organic.
That's good. Yeah, And I mean we've covered story I mean you run
out of national parks and then you got your national forests, and then you've
got your state parks. We've covered stories in state parks and then just areas
with trees it's outside. And we've covered stories in Scotland, in South America,
Australia. So I mean, you're right. I thought for a little
while it's like we're gonna run out of stuff to cover, and then you're
just like, wow, no, I'm not. Yeah, it's never ending,
and there's always new stories. Sadly, yeah, I mean, yeah,
there's always a new case. And I don't know if you found this
with your fans. A lot of our stories and maybe the last two years
have been fan reck like listener recommended. Now we don't even have to go
out and find the story. We're getting emails from people listening like you should
look into this case and cases I've never even heard of before until someone email
listen to us, and they're really interesting. Absolutely. I think the last
maybe three I've covered our all fan recommendations, and we have a whole list
that we you know, just backlogs of things that either were interested in or
have been fan suggestions, or during our own travels when we are in parks
ourselves and see something on an information board, we'll take a picture of it,
make a note of it, and it goes on the list. So
yeah, I have a whole note section in my phone that is like forty
recommendations from listeners, and then I have another note section in my phone that
is everything I've ever come across that I find interesting and I want to look
into it more, but maybe I don't have the time in that moment.
So if I'm member like, huh, what should I cover today, I'll
go through the list and I'll just like start looking into ones that I already
have written down. That's always nice. You got that backlog to go off
of, and it's kind of a little bit of a kind of a close
knit community. We have a i would say, like a working friendship with
the guy who runs the Strange Outdoors website. So We haven't recently, but
a lot of time in the past we've kind of collaborated with him. We've
either he's given us some of his research, or we'll do a case and
then he'll do an article off our episode for his website. And uh,
yeah, it's the The cases are endless, that's what I yeah. Yeah,
So what would be what's both yours? I'd say favorite stories that you
covered, your favorite one and the one that freaks you out the most.
That might be one and the same. Okay, you could go first studio.
Well, you know, that's so tough. It's very tough because obviously
the beauty of you know, creating the show is you get to there's no
one telling you what to research and want to cover. You get to choose,
and because of that, we cover stories that we really enjoy or want
to learn more about. So it is hard to choose. But I would
say my favorite type category genre of stories to research personally are animal encounters.
I absolutely love that, just because we always put or attempt to put some
sort of conservation twist to it. It's not like this big bad wolf type
of approach that we take to any animal story. So I really enjoy the
fact that we can interject some information that helps kind of destigmatize the fear,
even if the story is brutal and scary. So going off of that,
the story that I think stuck with me the most, and I think pretty
much all of our listeners that have been around up until that point Night of
the Grizzlies, which Cassie covered, so I didn't have to research it.
I got to listen to it. I was traumatizing to research yeah and listen
to yeah. So Night of the Grizzlies for sure was like my number one.
I think it's fascinating. It's obviously a huge story for a reason.
But yeah, animal encounter stories are definitely my favorite. So Night of the
Grizzlies, can you give like the elevator pitch of what that was about?
And then do you know what episode it is so everyone can go we can
look it up. I can look up. It's one of our very I
want to say it's episode thirteen. It's very early. You're going to be
underwater if you're listening to it. But good. Yeah, So long story
short. Again, I didn't research it, so Cassie might have to fill
in the blanks here. The long story short in the indocumented history for Glacier
National Park, up until this point in the nineteen sixties, there had never
been a fatal grizzly malling or incident. And then one night in the nineteen
sixties, two different women got attacked by two separate grizzlies and two separate areas
of the park on the same night and were killed and consumed and super rare
for bears to do that. It's super rare at face value, but Cassie
went into the fact that there's a reason for it, and the reason was
the National Park System was actively feeding bears and it was a it was a
tourist attraction. If you went to Glacier National Park up until that point,
there would be stadium bleachers. The National Park Service would feed the bears.
You can go see the bears, So they were basically habituated animals. And
yeah, so there's a whole backstory of not only the tragedies for those two
women and the people who were with them, but also how bear management had
had changed since then, and what the National Park Service has learned and what
we have learned as visitors to wild places and how to be more responsible when
we're in places with wild animals, and so anyway, it just was like
all the best of all of the world that I love, and she presented
it so beautifully, and it obviously has just really stuck with a lot of
people because it's horrifying. I mean, the detail she goes into, it's
real, it's rough, it's rough. I mean, it was a gruesome
story. And I will say part of that too was the National Park Service.
Not only were they encouraging the feeding of bears, but also they didn't
have a lot of research on grizzlies in general, and they considered grizzlies to
be as dangerous as a black bear or a deer. They just like they
didn't And even now we're getting a lot of stuff recently where black bears are
really dangerous. So there's always this new research that's happening. But at the
time time, when Night of the Grizzlies happened, it changed the way the
Park Service looked at it, and they said, like, hold on a
second, maybe grizzlies are a lot more dangerous, and they looked at it
as a whole and now there's whole bear safety seminars that go on within Glacier
National Park because of it, and across yeah, and across the National Park
Service as a whole, because Glacier wasn't just the only park participating in those
activities, and so it changed the way that not only people like us visitors
go and recorate in wild places with animals, but also you know, the
Park Service themselves and things like that. So well, I really like the
message you give on the conservation aspect of it too, because we always talk
about how if you're hiking in bear country, you really need to follow the
rules about you know, food storage, cooking, because the sad thing is
as soon as a bear attacks, you know, a hiker, they're going
to go out there and shoot that bear. I mean, so you know,
and you can just prevent this by just following you know, simple rules.
And it's not the bear's fault, it's not we're in their house,
but that's their home, not our home. Like, so you need to
follow the rules or you know, these animals will get you know, because
the park rangers and I get why they do that, because once a bear
gets the taste of you know, human food, it's it's done. That's
what they're going to pursue. And yeah, it's really important, especially for
people that don't ever hike to know, like, yeah, you know it's
really important to bring a bear cake and put your food in the tree and
you know, cook properly, and so yeah, that's great that you guys
you know, talk about that because and not just with bears, you know,
any wildlife just leave them alone, yes, I mean, yeah,
don't put them in a bad situation, and don't put yourself in a bad
situation and go in educated, which is so important in any wild space,
under any circumstance, whether it's with wildlife or the landscape that you're in.
It's just such an important message to know where you are, know how to
recreate safely where you're traveling to, and you know, leave it, leave
it the way you so others can enjoy it. Yeah, I mean that's
the big thing too. Don't three you trash around and but yeah, I
know, so that's a great aspect of the message. Did you know what
to do? Did you find the number? Oh? Yes I did.
It's seventeen and eighteen. Oh you were closed. It was two parter.
Yeah, it was a two parter. Yeah that's awesome. So yeah,
episode seventeen and eighteen. Uh, it'll be underwater too bad, And yeah,
you guys are worry about it, you know. You know what I've
learned. It's very interesting what I've what I've learned. I have friends that
are in business that I've been in business with that are like brutally honest,
and that's why they're friends of mine. And I've asked them about like our
older episodes and said, yeah, you can tell it's not great quality,
but if the story's good, it's it doesn't bug people as much. Yeah,
So I think I think as podcasters we look at the episode a lot
harsher than some of the listeners do. So there's a reason you guys are
big, and it's not because they were deterred when it wasn't as good.
I always think every episode's bad. Yes, you do. You if you
think everything's bad, No, it's not true. And most of it,
most of the time. And Mike's like, should we not do that one?
I'm like, no, we're doing it. We're doing it. You're
just a critical It just seems that you care a lot about what. You
put a lot of time and effort in it, and you want it to
be perfect. And we've we've given up on the perfect part. Yeah,
all right, Cassie, your turn. I mean, for the most impactful
one, I would agree with the Knight of the Grizzlies. Another one that
I think would come in a close second was also one that I covered,
and it was the Jenny Lake Rangers in Grand Teton National Park, and I
covered a story about a group of people who were all struck by lightning at
the same time on the Grand while they were climbing in a lightning storm,
and people lost their lives, and it was really tragic and horrible, but
within that it's really interesting to see the rescue teams that go out there.
I mean, the Jenny Lake Rangers are considered one of the most elite rescue
teams in the National Park system, and these people are I don't remember,
I haven't researched this in a while, so don't quote me or anything that
this is like exactly what happened. But this first group, it took them
like I think nine hours or so just to get on the Grand and their
rescue team comes in and they're up there in two hours. So they're just
they're extremely fit in shape, they're great climbers, they're amazing at their job
with rescuing and going into that and learning really how much goes into being part
of a rescue team was really interesting to me. And then the fact that
the people who did survive this only survived because they were so skilled in what
they do and got up there in time to help them. So I just
thought that that episode was extremely interesting. And it happens to be in one
of my favorite national parks, so that was so cool too. Yeah,
Joe, you haven't hiked there, have you? I have hiked there,
Oh you have? Yeah, I have two. It's it's a really cool
park. Yeah, it is so I actually we have a camera issue Joe's
dealing with that. I was looking through some of your episodes and I I
want to just ask your thoughts on a couple episodes you did, And there's
one in particular that Joe and I have batted around talking about. But it's
just so it's such a sad and terrifying story, and I think this was
this might have been one of your subscriber only episodes, but it was on
the Nutty Putty Cave. No, do you want to just just fill the
listeners in just the elevator pitch? Because this after I heard about that story.
I spent like a month reading about it out of like just morbid curiosity
and just trying to put myself not only in his shoes, but in like
the rescuer shoes that have to go in there and try to try to get
this guy out. I don't know the story, so this would be great
for me. You haven't heard about the Nutty Putty Cave. So that is
a story that I covered, and I will say it is one of my
least favorite stories that I've ever covered. And it's not because it's a bad
story, because it's I mean, it's a horrific story and there's a lot
of lessons to be learned in it, but I personally am claustrophobic. And
it is a cave story, a caving accident story, and it's also extremely
it's extremely sad. So basically, this man went into the Nutty Putty Cave,
which is now closed. It's in Utah, and he went in splunking
cave diving basically with a friend, and he got lost in the tunnels and
he went one way thinking it was the way that he needed to go,
and it was, but he thought he was in the right section so he
thought he had to squeeze through this really small area before he got to this
big opening, which was not the case. It actually he was going downwards,
which he didn't realize, but he got stuck upside down and he was
basically his head was all the way down and his feet were all the way
up. That's how upside down he was. There's like a graphic not graphics,
am info infographic, yeah of it, so you can see likes the
shave system, how he was stuck. That sounds absolutely awful. Yeah,
gets worse, It gets way worse. So he's stuck and his friend tries
to get him out and he can't, so they call in a rescue crew
which gets there and he is so stuck that there. They have a really
hard time getting him out. And actually the way that he's stuck, the
way that the tunnel goes, is that they would have to said, actually
break his legs to bend him in the way that they would need to to
get him out of this cave. So they were trying everything that they could
to get him out. They were trying really hard. They had doctors and
nurses down there. He had an ivy for to try and help with some
of the symptoms because when you're upside down for a really long time, all
the blood rushes to your brain and it's actually really detrimental to your organs and
especially specifically your heart. So he was down there for a long time.
I mean, he was on the phone with his family and his wife during
this was there, it was right above and unfortunately they tried for really long
time to get him out and they couldn't in time, so he just slowly
died in the worst way possible with everybody there, yeah, on the surface
and with rescue teams like trying so hard. He went into cardiac arrest,
and he didn't make it out. Yeah, it is it's almost better that
he did and just died right away instead of it just being drawn out over
a long period of time and giving hope to his family and everything who are
actively having conversations with him while this is all going on. It was just
like every part of it is so sad and so horrific. And one of
the worst parts about this story is that a similar story had happened here,
like I think it was the year before or a couple of years prior to
this incident, where someone got stuck in a bad way and they had to
be rescued, but they did get him out in time, and they should
have shut the cave down then, but they didn't and then this incident,
so it was the same cave, same system. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I don't ever want to do that stuff. I mean we've gone I
don't know what did we do the slot canyons, but like you're not squeezing
through places. I mean we could fit, you know, fit through them
pretty with you know packs. I'm never going to be where I have to
squeeze through something. No way. Yeah, it was is really rough.
That was one of the first subscriber episodes. That was early. I wrote
it. I wrote the day, doown of it? You guys did it
on I'm old school. I wrote it all down, yeah, before I
used to Quilli. April twenty second of twenty twenty one was when you released
it, so four months into the show. Yeah yeah, I just I
Joe and I've thought about You've thought about doing like a Patreon episode for a
long time and it's not really kind of the you know, the topic we
covered and it's like horrific story, like you said, Yeah, I didn't
like hearing about it, so I know, I give you know, kind
of a little you know, anxious just hearing about it. There's a movie,
right, isn't there a movie about it? One hundred and twenty seven
Hours was about No, no, no, not that movie. I want
to say, there's a movie about maybe like a documentary or something. Yeah,
there's probably something because if I mean that just sounds exactly what I don't
know. Maybe not, I mean, yes, The Last Descent is based
on the two thousand and nine rescue attempt of John Edward Jones and Nutty Putty
Cave. Wow. Actually that kind of sends from watch I probably watched.
I do not remember movies for like the life of me. Like some people
can remember quotes and resay an entire movie after they watch it. I brain
dump it within two weeks, like I've never seen that before. That's why
I'm never gonna watch that movie, because I'm the person who remembers every aspect
of a movie, so that will just be stuck in my head. I
had a friend growing up that would ruin movies because he would, like,
you watch Dumb and Dumber, and he would know every line and say it
before they would say it on the movie just to impress you. Yeah,
no, so that that was really uh one of the episodes that stuck out
to me. Another another question I had is Joe and I love doing paranormal
episodes. We don't do them very often because we found that they actually are
the least popular, but we like doing them. And I did notice that,
you know, you kind of mix in every now and then like a
paranormal paranormal episode. I was just on a little mini vacation and I went
to a town in Wisconsin called ryan Lander where they have a legend of this
thing called a hodagg I bought a bobblehead for the studio, So, yeah,
we got these in Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin, Yeah, Rylander. So
I was just wondering if if there's any you know, cool urban legends that
you guys have covered that you really find fascinating or you know, like we
could do like a pop quiz like do you believe in Bigfoot? Do you
believe? Or like is there anything? Yes, Are there any like urban
legends or anything like that that you've had fun covering and think are real or
think are cool but kind of a joke. Well, I would say right
off the bat. I mean, the easiest ones to pick at obviously are
big Foot, and we do kind of lump in. It's hard to say,
like the alien category, is that cryptid? Is that paranormal? What
is that? But we have done a couple alien based episodes just because I
believe, and I think Cassie does too, and and but anyways, so
oh yeah, look at my wallpaper. I don't know if you can see
my wall it's alien elections. So yeah, But anyways, as far as
like urban legends, I don't think we've covered necessarily that. What we have
done and I say we, but Cassie has done the majority of them is
more so of native and indigenous legends that have taken form or shape over the
years and have been just cemented into different areas and thus different national parks.
And the first one that comes to mind right away is that we were just
talking about today actually randomly is the Wind to Go up in Aisle Royal.
And we also you also covered spear Finger, which is in the Great Smoky
Mountains National Park. Yes, yeah, just different native legends that kind of
began as like I'm not I kind of forget the Wind to Go thing.
You might have to refresh my memory. But Spearfinger was definitely like a lot
of those legends have to do with like they were kind of tales that were
shared as kind of like warnings to like children to like be good or like
stack around and you know things like that. So those are really cool and
it's not necessarily whether or not we believe in the those entities. It's more
of like honoring the stories of the indigenous cultures and we love sharing them.
Yea. And have you done any episodes? I think I saw you did
one episode on maybe the Bermuda Triangle. Do you ever you do like location
like paranormal locations maybe or yeah, so I'm pretty sure that one was.
God, you're like really raking us, my god, do that. I
remember you did the Bermuda Triangle, but it wasn't just the Bermuda Triangle.
You also did one in Vermont. I didn't do the Bermuda Triangle. I
did the Bermuda Triangles of North America. It was the last of Vermont.
And somewhere in your set California, you have viral vortices or something like that.
There's like certain areas were like grab different man. It was where Steve
Fawcett went down. I think he went down in one. Yeah, I
don't know, I could be wrong, but yeah, Well, like Cassie
said, we brain dump a lot of this stuff, especially things from like
three years ago. But yeah, no, we've definitely done that. I
mean, and of course it's hard to kind of toe the line between because
when I remember doing that particular episode in Vermont, that area, and particularly
in Alaska, the first few things that you see when you're going to do
research on stories is like, especially those are like the paranormal, like they
were adopted by aliens or whatever the heck happened, you know, But when
you actually look at it, it's like that area in Alaska actually has like
the highest rate of missing and murdered Indigenous women, And it's like is it
paranormal or is it you know, something something else that we need to pay
attention to. And it's fun, you know, like as you guys can
probably relate to, it's fun to do lighter hearted paranormal stuff and just kind
of toss around like is this real? Is it not real? Like you
know, kind of take some of the heaviness off of your regularly scheduled well
and you can have fun with it. I think that that fun is the
operative word, because you really don't. It's it's we run into this a
lot. We don't have fun doing it. We like doing the show and
do it, but it's not like you're you're reveling in people being killed or
going missing or like the painted cause we tell the stories. But when you
do the paranormal ones, it is fun. You can talk about the ho
Degg, this weird monster that apparently lives in Ryanland or Wisconsin for some reason.
And my kids all play hockey, so we have there's a Hoegg tournament
so that you go to the ice ring. They have a giant ho egg
that shoots smoke out of it, and they like it's a huge tourist attraction.
They have a giant statue in town, and it's like it's like some
guy's story from like a hundred years ago. Yeah, like Cassie is done
where god like the castle, the Haunted Castle okay, oh Godly England,
Yeah, the x More Castle over there, and just like Hiss historically based,
a lot of stuff has happened there. But then there's these supposed entities
that are still living there and there's all these stories and sometimes we even go
to these places. I mean, we've been to quite a few haunted places.
I would say now, been to the Crescent Hotel in Arkansas was one,
the Stanley Hotel in Estes. I went to the what was it called
the Dartmoor Dartmore Castle in the UK. We did. I mean, I
take Cassie to a lot of places that are unofficially haunted, that are definitely
haunted. A lot of them are officially haunted. I was like, hey,
Daniel, I like telling you stories, but I don't want to be
haunted. And she's like, cool, I just booked us this hotel.
Show me a picture of it. And I'm like this one time, this
one time, I will never forget. We were in Arkansas and she was
like, oh yeah, I booked this hotel. Like it's a little older,
and like okay, sure, and I'm the GPS. I'm driving and
I get there and I'm like and we pull up to it and there's a
parking lot across the street and I pull in the parking lot so I have
a full view of this hotel we're about to stay in. I'm like,
is this it? She's like yeah, yeah, this is it. The
top windows were shattered. Outside there were like old mattresses that were like leaned
against the windows with the broken windows. The front of it is like so
run down. There's a blinking light on the outside. It's just everything you
would think a horror movie would be. It was, And I was like,
all right, I guess I'm going inside this building. And we get
inside and it's exactly the same inside, dilapidated. Yes, we walk to
our room, it's upstairs. We walk up the set of stairs and it's
this really dark hallway with like a couple flickering lights. It's the middle of
the day, but it's completely dark in there. There's these old pictures on
the wall, like a really old it looks like a really old hotel.
And I'm like, all right, this is definitely where I get haunted for
sure. So has it happened yet. She's brought you to all these places
have you? Have you been haunted? She's had a couple of feelings,
She's had a couple feelings of things not line like touched or anything. Yeah,
okay, yeah, I like things with character. Okay, sue me,
you know what. I like that too, because what I've learned over
the years of doing trips. Whenever your trip goes perfect and you do all
this, it's not as memorable. It's when you have issues or you go
to places like that. Look at you're laughing about it. It was it
made the trip, Yeah exactly. But you Yeah, so all you gotta
think about is when you're in that situation like this is me a great story
later if we make it out alive. Yeah. Right, I will say
that you have definitely made me appreciate older historic tells a lot more because they're
way cooler than going to like a dais In or something like that, where
they're all just generic. They're a lot more interesting. It's just my one
rule is I if I get haunted, I'm not allowed to be touched.
Like I would literally go in our hotel rooms. I'm like, all right,
I know it's I know it's haunted in here. I detail, so
don't touch me. You make like a salt circle and sleep in it on
the floor. Yeah, And we always like we never get separate bedrooms.
And even the one time we had a room that had two beds or two
rooms or two rooms in the same like suite. Sure they were connected.
Whatever, yeah, no, we didn't use. The second was so haunted.
It was like the most haunted hotel in America or something, and we
looking. Daniel's like, I'm going to sleep in here and be like,
yeah, me too. So I'm going to call you for hotel recommendations next
time I go somewhere selling in those places. That sounds amazing. That's actually
a great segue. So you guys do listener trips, which is something I
want to get into. Although you have kids now, yeah, we're all
growing up, so I could do it. So tell us about your listener
trips. Yeah, cool. Yeah, So we started last year and we
started off with one thinking that you know, this would be fun to do
if anyone is interested or would be interested, and it was wildly successful.
Our first trip we launched was an Alaska trip, and we don't bring anyone
into dilapidated haunted hotels on purpose, so that's not part of the ntenerary.
But yeah, so we've done last year, we did six or seven.
We take listeners. The group sizes vary depending on what we're doing, whether
they're all camping or an outdoor based which we done in Alaska and Canada.
Then we have kind of like half and half ones. We went to Patagonia,
which was very outdoor based, but we stayed in hotels instead of tents,
and then that there's been some that are all like cultural based, which
primarily was Egypt, where we just did a lot of sight seeing and museums
and things like that. But we try and pick itineraries that we enjoy.
That is kind of just like a translation of our show content into real life
experiences. Yeah, that's absolutely awesome. Sounds really cool. Yeah, so
how many people do you get? Like was it hard to fill or do
you guys have enough listeners that you were able to fill these pretty quick?
Well? Yeah, the first time we did this, we like we were
doing an Alaska trip and we went all out. We like filmed videos like
we don't know who's going to respond to this, who are people going to
be interested? We put like all these posts all over social media like please
come with us fun and it sold out within three minutes. Oh wow,
it's fantastic. That's awesome, And all of our trips have done the same
thing since. That's fantastic. So have you had any interesting interactions with fans
on your trips? No, I mean interesting as in like lovely people and
a lot of really cool stories and backgrounds. Yes, but every person who
has ever come on our trips have been really wonderful. And one thing about
our community that's been so great is that it's a lot of like minded people
who just want to be in the outdoors, who want to adventure together,
who want to have real life experiences. And that's definitely translated when we all
get together. I mean most of our trips people leave with lifetime friends.
We see them go on trips with each other after ours has long ended.
There's a couple groups in particular where I see them on Instagram all the time,
meeting up across the country together, which is amazing. So we've had
we haven't had any bad experiences in terms of people who come on the trips.
Yeah, that's great. I'm asking questions because I want to do this,
so I'm like, I know a lot of this is for me.
Actually, it's really great. Yeah, it's a really cool idea for like
when we used to do our big trip every year. There's a lot of
planning that goes into it, a lot of like researching where to hike and
what to do and all that. You know, checking the weather and everything,
what dilapidated hotel we're going to stay? Yeah, right, And you
know, for a lot of people who may want to do this that have
never done it before in our inexperienced having this kind of planned out for you,
and then obviously you two are very experienced hikers and have done it all
over the world. Having you two is kind of the guides on there probably
eases their minds that like, Okay, I can do this, like I'm
not on my by myself planning it all and you know, figuring all this
stuff out, so that that's a really cool aspect of it that I can
I can see why it would be so popular, absolutely, because it's a
lot of work. It's hard planning one of these trips. I mean,
if you want to do it and not you know, do it right.
And I think you guys put it perfectly. You said when it finally gets
from the group chat to real like real life, Yeah, yeah, it's
like it's kind of surreal because you talk about it for months and months and
months and then you actually do it and you're like, whoa, what's happening?
Yeah? Yeah, A lot are a lot of our trips we put
out a year in advance, and we're chatting on group chats and things like
that over the year and talking about packing lists and how excited we are,
and then we all land wherever we are and it's like, hey, finally
you come together. We're all here now, and it's just an It's an
excellent opportunity for people who you know, it's not quite solo travel, of
course, because you're with a group, but a lot of these people are
coming solo, so it's kind of like this. It's like a halfway house
between doing a full solo trip on your own and quite frankly, for especially
young women, that's really daunting, especially if you're going to a different country,
somewhere you don't speak the language, somewhere you're not familiar with, and
you get to do that and experience that in a way that maybe you never
would have because you know how hard it is to get a group of people
that you know to go somewhere you know, and sometimes if you wait around
for friends or family, it may never happen. So we're really fortunate to
be able to provide the space for people to move forward with something like that
that maybe they wouldn't have done before and now have the confidence to either do
themselves in the future, or like Cassie said, they've made a group of
friends that they now can go do those things with and they don't have to
rely on you know, they're people at home. So it's a really cool
way to bring each other. That's awesome that you're the catalyst for that too.
Like, it's really neat that your your idea that started as you guys
just enjoy hiking. You started a show, Now you do these trips.
You've like brought people together now that they are lifelong traveling friends, all because
you guys wanted to start a podcast. That's awesome. Yeah, it's kind
of a weird butterfly effects. Yeah, just spreading joy in the world.
That's great. I have a question just kind of on the same topic,
but kind of more broadly to just your your own hiking trips you've done.
Joe and I have talked many times on our show about the different things that
have happened to us while hiking. You know, for my first trip in
Canyon Lands, run out of water to Glacier where we were in a campground
that was attacked. We were under bear danger. Yeah, so glacier.
We met a guy in Utah that literally like walked out of the bushes and
started talking to us, and I think he was crazy. He told us
that he wrote a bunch of songs for Disney and they stole And then we're
all standing there with kind of our hands like on our knives, ready to
like defend ourselves to use that strange and it came out of nowhere. Yeah,
it just like with no gear. Yeah. But so my question is,
you know, what are some things that have happened to you on your
you know, throughout the years that you know, a close call or like
a strange interaction with a Sometimes on hiking trips, I'm more worried about maybe
the people I might run into versus the animals. Like sometimes people can be
you know, more threatening sometimes. But so, I don't know, has
anything happened to you on a hike where like it was like you look back
in hindsight, I'm like, wow, that was that was a little closer
than you know I'd like it to be or something like that. Uh,
I can't like off am I echoing right now? I don't know for me,
I I'm echoing it's on our end, Yeah, Okay, I can
hear myself talking as I'm speaking. It's weird. Sorry for me. As
far as people encounters, I haven't. I've had like some strange things,
but nothing that overtly I felt like I was in danger. I did have
an instance with a grizzly bear that was very close to me when I was
in the Granteetons when I was camping. One night, I was laying in
a tent with one of my friends and we were in a campground there,
and we were surrounded by people who had RV's, and we were the only
people in tents. And I don't know if people were kind of careless because
they had the safety of their RVs or what it was, but we both
woke up in the middle of the night and we just heard loud grunting next
to our tent and like heavy snorting, and I remember I like slowly turned
over to my friend and we both just stared at each other and didn't breathe,
just like, oh fuck, we both just woke up and there's a
bear outside. And at the time we didn't know like is it a grizzly
bear, is it a black bear? We know it's a bear. We
know, it's very close to our tent, and so we just waited what
felt like a very long time, and then I finally heard it off in
the distance and I unzipped my little zipper and fright underneath like the spotlight that
was on the road to get out. It was a grizzly bear. Jeez,
yeah, grizzlies are So I had a grizzly encounter in the tee Tomes
as well. You're on a trail and we came around a corner and he
was probably like fifty feet off the trail and he was just standing there eating
berries and he saw us and just stopped and was scaring at us. And
you got to look at the ground. You don't make icons. Oh yeah,
it was k You're not challenging, just thinking like, all right,
walk slowly, you're not at a zoo. There's no fence, like they
can cover fifty feet really fast. Yes, yeah, it's a little unnerving,
but yeah. We saw a ranger farther down the trail and they were
like, he's in there eating berries. He's he's not gonna bother you,
guys. They're happy, like he's got plenty of food. But it's still
and I mean your situation. You're in your tent and he's sniffing around like
that's terrifying. Yeah, about do we have anything in my pocket? Oh?
We knew we didn't because all we had to eat that night was popcorn.
Yeah, and I had gone around the fire and picked up every single
thing. And I mean there was like maybe like two popcorns on the ground
that fallen and everything was locked away. There was nothing near us, and
we were just we knew that there was nothing, But at the same time,
we're like, is there something left over from the RV? There was
an RV like twenty feet from us, Yeah, is there something over there?
And luckily I don't think there was anything, And it was just kind
of browsing through because it left. But that was the closest encounter to Grizzly
Bear I've ever close. Yeah, closer than I would like to be Christian.
All right, Danielle, what about you for me? Thankfully I have
not I've had a couple of Like I would say, it wasn't as scary
as Cassie's encounter, but with a big predator on the trail. Wait,
were you with Aaron truck? Yeah? Okay, so my story also involves
that same so it's her she's the problem. So we she was on one
of our group trips. She came with us to Patagonia, and it was
just her and I on the trail at the very end of like one of
the longest tracks we did that whole that whole trip. It was a very
long day hike, and it was on our way back. We kind of
like broke up into little, uh little groups on the way back, so
it's just her and I and I just casually looked next to me to talk
to her mid conversation, and not even ten feet away from her was a
puma. So I have it one. What do you do? Well,
we assessed. I immediately said I grabbed her. She was mid sentence,
because that's why I looked at her to listen to her. And I immediately
was like, I'm sorry for swearing, but I was like, hooyshit,
hoyshit, holy shit, that's the appropriate response. It was like, and
I grabbed her and stopped her from walking. And I think we would have
had a different reaction if you know, the animal was behaving differently, but
it was very clearly in the middle of hunting something, you know, it's
back was to us. You could see its ears flicking back to us.
It knew that we were right there, you know, it was it was
very clear it was right next to us, but it was looking it looked
like it was hunting, like maybe like rabbits or something, because it was
in this little bit of a clearing and it was just kind of doing its
own thing, and we watched it for maybe twenty five thirty seconds and then
it just kind of went off into its own thing. So it wasn't like
a scary, scary encounter, but it was definitely startling. That sounds scary
to me. But I will say, like, you know, fortunately or
unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, the scariest encounters with people
I have ever had personally have not been on the trail. They've been in
normal day to day life, where I've had many times where it was very
concerning without getting into detail, but yeah, just like in just regular day
to day life, not something scary in the woods or on the trail or
anything like that. You know, and I know, bad things can happen
everywhere. Weird encounters can happen anywhere, but thankfully for me, that has
not happened. So actually, hold on. This leads into like the question
that's so I'm neurodivergent, so I love TikTok. It's like crack the bear
the man in the woods question. Have you guys thought about this? Okay,
it's really Mike, what's I don't know, I'm not familiar with this.
You have like little kids. If your daughter had to be in the
woods, would you rather have her be with a bear or a man?
A bear? It's funny when there's just people who know about bears and people
who know about people. It's such a different it's such a contentious topic,
and both sides get angry at everybody for answering that they answer. The vast
majority of people we've encountered hiking have been great, but we have come across
some you know, odd odd ducks along the way, of course. I
mean, wherever there's people, you're gonna have the you run the risk of
running into someone who doesn't have the greatest intentions, whether that be in the
city or in the middle of the woods. And you know, it's just
it's kind of a sad reality, and bad things happen everywhere. And we've
covered we've covered a fair amount of you know, true, I'm based stories.
Of course it does happen, but personally yeah, I mean real quick
talking about people hiking. Years ago, a group of us did a big
hiking trip in Hawaii and we hiked into the Kalau Valley on Quai and down
in that valley there's these I guess you call them homeless people, but they
live in the woods and there's this trail it's not on a map, you
got to ask around to find it, called the Hippie Highway. And so
we were like, oh, this sounds really interesting, let's go and try
and find it. And we eventually find it and we start hiking into the
jungle and there's all these people just living out there naked. They just live
in the woods naked. They have like a library and a farm and like
a whole community, but they're all just naked. And it's colony. No,
not a newdist colony. They're just living on the land and they just
don't want to wear clothes, and it sounds like a newdist colony. They
were eating it you're describing a newist I guess, and they no, it's
not that at all. It they were all drinking this mushroom soup. So
they were all like tripping out and but that sounds amazing to me. Mike,
I want to go live there. I don't know what you're talking about.
Yeah, it's on the north side of Kawhi. It's in the Kalau
Valley. And so you're saying I can go live off the land naked in
Hawaii, you can't. The state comes in there every couple of years and
clears everything out and then the people kind of just move right back in a
sign me up, I'm in. I'm going. So there you go.
Those people are very friendly. I'll say that. Yeah, awesome, all
right, Joe, you were looking like you're gonna pull Yes, I was
gonna. I was gonna play a couple, just three of the voicemails because
I know we don't want to go too much longer. But guy that talks
about the Ford, I do. Did we play you guys that one?
That one's not about their show, I know, but we'll play it at
the end. It's it's really funny. So there's there's there's three people.
I sent you the image of the one girl who said she was crying,
screaming and throwing up. We were doing the collaboration. But there's a couple
of them. They're really nice and I wanted to play them because they say
really nice stuff about you guys too. So I'm gonna play this the first.
I have two messages from the same girl and then a third one.
So here is the first. Hello, no locations and known. My name
is Jessica ty. I just wanted to Oh, you can't hear it at
all? No, no, at all. I can hear it, like,
very very faintly, but I can't totally understand what she's saying. Oh
that's terrible. All right, we'll do that. We'll not do that then,
and I'll just send it to you, Okay, I'd like to hear
it, so yeah, well i'll send it to you. I think everyone
that would listen to our show has played already and I can. I can
share it on socials too, so I'll do that. So we'll skip that
thing. Now. That's okay. Let me see if I had any other
questions. You did have some other interesting episodes that we I won't go into.
You covered one on the bodies of Mount Frist, which has always fascinated
me. That was another early one from twenty to twenty one. I always
just find it fascinating that the climbers kind of use the bodies as like markers,
like map markers almost. I kind of know where they are on their
way to the summit, So that that was an interesting episode. I don't
know any any other questions. I would say, what's your dream trip?
You've seen? You have gone on a ton of them. You guys are
just in Peru, Mantrepechu. Where's the place you haven't gone yet? That's
a big bucket list item. Oh boy, that's a good one. I
know Cassie's answer right away as we talked about it today like three hours ago.
Okay, she's right. What are you going to say? But she's
right. I one of my top places that I really want to go that
I haven't been yet is Norway. Okay, Okay, why Norway? I
just think that it's so one. I love Nortic countries, but also just
the I've never really seen fjords like those in Norway before, and the landscape
and the hiking opportunities that are there are just they look on real se videos.
It looks fake. It looks like AI like someone made it up,
Like how is this real? How does this exist in real life? And
I've always heard that Norwegian people are really lovely and I'd love to like meet
people there and just explore and camp and hike and do all the fun stuff
out there. So one day, one day I'll get there. Well,
you're in the right business to make it happen. Yeah, that's awesome,
all right, Danielle. So I guess I have a little bit of a
different answer or approach to the answer. Instead of a like specific location,
there are kind of like events that I would like to witness, and the
two that come to mind are vastly different. But the first one is the
great migration in Africa. I would love to see that. I think it's
just such one of the like wonders of the world, truly, and I
would love to be able to see that. Uh. So that's one thing.
And then on the other end of the spectrum, I know your answer
you I don't know. I don't know if I've ever told uh, I've
definitely told you. I think either way, I would like, okay,
after I tell it, if it's different, I need to know what you're
for me. But I would love to see da date lists and Maritos yeah,
in in Mexico. I would love UH to see that. I'm a
huge It's not even like the morbid curiosity thing. I just I really really
am fascinated with uh, death rituals and how people honor the dead throughout the
world, and that is one of the events that I would love to see.
And I think I've seen videos of that. Is that where they have
like the big skulls and they dress up and yeah, okay, I've seen
videos of it. I don't know what it's all about. So it's all
just just honoring the dead and death rituals. Yeah, so this is funny
because Cassie actually did an episode on this, but yeah, very early on
as well. But yeah, essentially, obviously, throughout the world people view
death in a lot of differing ways that are a complete departure from what we
do here in the United States and how we handle and view and how we
contemplate death. It's just so extremely different and I find it fascinating. And
anyways, so yeah, Dia de los Mortos is one of those celebrations that
essentially, and you know, during a time of the year, isn't it
November first through the third or something? Each day is like for a different
you know, for ancestors or children or pets or you know, deceased loved
ones in different ways of you know, honoring them. People put out afriendas
where you put out pictures and things that those people loved in life and marigold
flowers, and you talk to them and celebrate them and bring them into their
spirits into your home. And there's big celebrations like you know, city wide
and not just in people's homes individually, but throughout the country. And I
just think it's so beautiful, and I wish that we did something like that
in America to honor our loved ones instead of it being so private and kind
of like not a storm or socially acceptable thing. So I just would love
to see that, just like a country celebrate and honor the dead in the
way that we just do not hear. So, yeah, that's beautiful.
That sounds amazing. Now I want to go see it. You did a
great job of explaining it. I'm in. Yeah, my daughter loves the
Disney movie Coco, which obsessed with it. The fun thing about Coco,
too is I actually watched it after I researched the episode, and I think
it was just it wasn't for the research of the opposite or anything. It
was just because I knew that it was about it, and they actually everything
that they reference within that movie is accurate to DEAs dalis Morito's traditions and everything
has They're really they're really thoughtful about everything that they do and everything that is
happening, and everything that you see in Dea dalss Moritos is intentional and there's
a purpose behind every part of it for their loved ones who have passed,
which is also why it is so interesting. So and a lot of times
with that tradition, people who aren't familiar with it think, oh, it's
the Mexican Halloween, and that cannot be further from the truth because the outfits
and the colors and everything that you see, it's not a costume for people.
It's a representation sure of certain beliefs and spiritual beliefs, and it's just
it's a it's a really cool and interesting ritual. No, it looks really
cool, and I would love to see that someday as well. Just be
cool to like travel to each day, spend a day in a different city.
One hundred percent, Yeah, because they I mean, it's a nationwide
celebration, and if you look up, you know, like obviously there's a
bunch of travel blogs and stuff out there, as there are for everywhere in
the world. And it's kind of like, so you want to see you
want to witness Da Delos Martos, what city should I go to? And
it's like, if you want this type of experience, go to this city
or this city is more about the parade and this city is more about you
know, in the cemeteries. And it's just it's really cool. So I
have some research to do for sure. But yeah, so because I've been
to a listener trip, let's do a joint listener trip. Just get a
huge group, we'll all go. Yeah. Yeah, have to do with
the outdoors, that doesn't matter. It's about living life and experiences. That's
right, that's great. Well, I guess to wrap it up, do
you want to tell tell us how to get to your show? Any listeners
of our show that haven't heard of you yet? Which how to get to
your show, what to buy, where to give you money, all the
all that stuff, where to follow you? Well, we are on every
podcasting platform you can think of. So if you're on Spotify, Apple,
you can find us there. National Park after Dark. We're on Instagram National
Park after Dark. We're trying to get into TikTok, but we're not there
yet, but we have a page if you want to hang out with us
there. We'll post in about six months. We might get one post in
before it's banned. Yeah, who goes? Who knows? Yeah, we
have a website, npad podcast dot com. We have there you can We're
working on an episode directory so hopefully that comes out in the future, but
there you can find links to our trips that we've were doing. We I
don't know by the time this comes out if we've announced our twenty five trips
or not, so I guess won't say anything. But but they have to
keep going to your website and your show to see, so just keep checking
every day, keep checking. We do have one already that is yet already
booked and out there, so but we are thinking of adding more and then.
Yeah. We have a submission form for Trail Tales where we have people
write in their experiences and outdoors and we do episodes every other week covering that.
So there's a submission form there. We have a Patreon as well,
and we also have Apple subscriptions, so if you want to be a subscriber,
those are the two options. And as far as giving us money other
ways, we are. We are trying to get merch going. It's been
something people have been really really wanting from us, and we are working on
it. It's hard. We've been talking about it for years, like T
shirts and yeah we have we have like we have pink hats that we got
these. This is the most of our merch and ones. Yes. Nice,
Yeah, it is a merch is you know, you don't know until
you know, and when you know, you get it and it's it's difficult
to navigate. We just want to do it right, so we're working on
it. Good, awesome, Well, thank you very much for coming on
the show. Uh, thank you all of the fans of n P A
D who came over and discovered us and vice versa. If you haven't heard
of them, please go listen to their show. It's fantastic. All we
hear about and I'll post the voicemails online because it's people that listen to both
shows and like, you guys are all great and if you don't know about
this, you need to listen to them, but no, we really appreciate
you guys coming on and then we always end with the lastly, when enjoying
beauty and nature, whether backpacking, camping, or simply taking a walk,
always remember to leave no trace. Thanks and we will see you all next time.