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We're back with another edition of the
Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Joshinsky,

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culture editor here at the Federalist.
As always, you can email the show

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at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr LST.

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Make sure to subscribe wherever you download
your podcasts as well. Today I'm

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happy to be joined by Bill Donahue. He is the author of the new

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book War on Virtue, How the
ruling Class is Killing the American Dream.

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He's also the president of the Catholic
League, which is celebrating it's fiftieth anniversary

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this week. Bill. Welcome to
the show. Thank you, Emily's it's

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a pleasure to be with you.
Congratulations on fifty years of the Catholic League.

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In nearly thirty years of your tenure
at the Catholic League, could you

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tell us just a little bit about
what it's been like over the several decades

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to helm the organization. Well,
it's interesting as I was at a professor

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in Pittsburgh and before that I taught
in Spanish Halem. I went to the

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Heritage Foundation in late eighties as a
resident scholar, but back to the college

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in Pittsburgh and I've been doing this
job now ye July the first, for

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thirty years, and it's been very
rewarding, coming back home to New York

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City, do a lot of radio
TV, writing books and articles, and

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defending the Catholic Church. Sometimes it
creates its own problems, but too often

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there are problems which are external,
even some of them internal, of course.

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But it's been a pleasure because certainly
the teachings of the church I agree

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with one hundred percent, if not
the behavior of all of the teachers.

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So it's been rewarding. I can
only imagine. And your book again,

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I'll say the title is called war
on Virtue, and that's something I think

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a lot of conservatives have woken up
to for sure. I want to ask,

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from your perspective, why, what
really inspired this book? What motivated

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you to write this book? Was
there anything in particular that happened recently,

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any events, anything that just put
this subject to the point where you thought,

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I'm going to spend a whole book
on the warrant virtue. Well,

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I've always been interested in social stratification
or inequality within society. Sometimes it's justly

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held, other times it's undust.
I've been interested given the fact that I

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worked in Spanish all but Blocks and
Puerto Ricans, and I worked with a

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lot of black students when I was
a professor, and I was the faculty

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advisors and a basketball team, and
I've often felt that blacks have not a

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novel idea, have not exactly been
given a fair shape. Where I think

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I have a different I take here
is that it's not the proverbial white supremacist

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crazy people on the right that Black
people need to fear, and it's not

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the cops. It's mostly white,
well educated people on the left who claim

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to have their best interest in law
mine and who today make up a large

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swath of the ruling class. In
other words, I am saying that because

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the liberal elite don't look at Blocks
as equals, they keep lowering expectations,

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that that is the ultimate manifestation of
racism. Blocks need to fear the ruling

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class, well educated white people who
claim to be on their side, be

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careful of their patronizing, condescending attitude, because at the bottom, at the

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end of the day, they will
not treat you as equals. And I

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think is the more controversial element in
the book. No, absolutely, and

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if we could just define the term
virtue. I'll confess, until I started

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spending a lot of time in the
conservative movement, I didn't really have a

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solid understanding of that term, certainly
not philosophical one rooted in some of the

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deeper, permanent, enduring ideas that
it should be rooted in. So Bill,

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tell us what your definition of virtue
is? What should people be seeking

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when they seek virtue? Well,
the term virtue, it has a very

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simple meaning. It simply means good
habits. If you go back to the

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times of Aristotle and Cicero, they
certainly understood it. It was This is

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certainly antidated that the teachings of the
Catholic Church. And you don't have to

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you can be a nonbeliever for that
matter, to understand that you can't have

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a free society unless people are virtuous. In other words, just take the

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idea of civility. Civility breaks down, the social order breaks down unless people

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act in a civil way, and
that the only way you can do that

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is if either people police themselves through
virtue, and if they don't do that,

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then the police will do the job
for you. So a free society

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cannot exist without self governing people,
because we have self governing institutions. We

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have downplayed virtue. We we've understood
for time in millennia the necessity of virtue

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and creating a good civil society and
good citizenship. But I would say that

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today, at least in the United
States, and so I would say most

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of the Western world, virtue is
under attack. It's disparaged, it it's

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ranched, it's looked upon as old
hat atavistic, and quite frankly, those

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people make that argument, what are
you going to replace virtue with? How

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else in the world do we expect
individuals to thrive socioeconomically, and to do

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well in school and to do well
in the workplace unless they practice what I

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call the vital virtues, namely personal
responsibility, self control, and perseverance.

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If you don't practice those free virtues, you are not going to succeed in

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our society. Now, if people, if people are looking to trace the

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arc of this war on virtue,
where would you say that it begins.

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Does it begin in the sort of
postmodern era or is there something that's supercharged

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it recently? Maybe both As the
answer that question, maybe neither. But

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but when does the left really start? And if you think it's the left.

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I could be wrong on just that
definition. But when do people really

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start attacking that concept of virtue and
its importance in our society. Well,

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like so many things unfortunately in our
society. And look, there are good

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things they came out of the nineteen
sixties, and in equal rights for blocks

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and women and others. I'm not
here to thrash the entire nineteen sixties.

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However, it was also the period
of moral decay. It was the period

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of the sexual revolution, which was
not about keeping people away from oppressure.

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It was more about libertinism, which
is liberty as licensed. And virtue came

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under attack in the schools in particular, the moral relativism took over. It

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the idea that everybody could make a
own idea of right and wrong, which

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is a pernicious idea. Society must
come to a general agreement. That's what

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the word consensus means in order for
society to go here. But they started

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taking situations in the schools, so
it depends on the situation what's right and

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what's born. There are no moral
absolutes. That's when virtue began to take

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a blow. And it continued on, but most recently and I'm glad you

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mentioned this. Emily. Postmodernism,
while it did come out of the forties

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and fifties in Germany and France,
it didn't hit the United States much until

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the mid nineteen sixties. But it
didn't flower in any major way until about

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the last ten years. And what
postmodernism means essentially is that there is no

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such thing as truth, that truth
is a fiction, and therefore everything is

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a social construct. I can tell
you somebody has a doctor in sociology and

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has taught every grade from the second
grade through newly minted pads around the world.

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That is a fiction. No,
there is such a thing as truth.

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And once you go down that road. Hitler, by the way,

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said that there's no such thing as
truth. Okay, so he was no

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postmodernist. But isn't it interesting how
the intellectuals agree with hit And we know

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what how and now you better believe
in truth otherwise there's no objective reality.

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That's the case. Well, today's
a woman, a woman claims a man.

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Men can get pregnan. We all
know this is madness. If you're

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saying that is to say, and
if you're willing to tell the truth,

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Yeah, that's exactly something I was
going to ask you about next, because,

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obviously from a Catholic perspective, and
I'm Lutheran myself, the decline in

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faith and in religious attendance, not
just faith itself, but in actually people

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sitting in the pew every Sunday,
and all of the values that come with

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that and all the importance that comes
with that is clearly tied up in this.

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It's clearly tied up in the postmodern
rejection of objectivity and of truth itself.

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To what extent do you think this
is a consequence of this sort of

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rejection of faith traditions, the rejection
of you know, actual religious religiosity.

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I should say, in the United
States, there's a direct line between militant

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secularism, the rise of millets in
secularism, and a decline in religiosity.

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And we can go back to the
Christians. Ancestors are Jewish brothers and sisters,

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and they gave us the Ten Commandments. Okay, Now, today in

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our society, I always like to
say, the three most dreaded words in

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the English language are thou shalt not, we don't be told anything. We

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are culture of narcissism. But quite
frankly, there are some things that we

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should not want to do because they
will harm our societies, such as governing

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our neighbors, wife is goods,
etc. Killing, stealing and the like.

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The diacologue demandment is the foundation,
the moral foundation of the Geo Christians

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heritage, which is the foundation of
Western simplization. And if you want to

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thrash that, go ahead. And
I just have one question, what exactly

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are you going to put in its
place? Because we've seen what's happened.

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It's called radical individualism. And once
every individual goes about his way, will

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he nearly making up his own idea
of wrong? The results are never auspicious.

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Ever. You write in the book, and I like the way that

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you put this. It's actually a
chapter title promoting racism. You write about

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that, and you talked about it
a little earlier, but I wanted to

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see if you could sort of flesh
out the point how this war on virtue

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ends up also promoting racism, even
if you know the ruling classesn't want to

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frame it that way or use that
lingo. That's what it is. It's

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promoting racism. How does that happen? Well, I'd like to go back

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to the eighteen fifties to introduce the
American people the readers someone who they're probably

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not aware of. George fits You. George fits You was America's first sociologist,

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and he wrote in the eighteen fifties
that he was on the side of

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blacks. He was a progressive,
he was a left wing or what we

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would call today. He argued that
blacks would not treated well and the like,

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and he made a vigorous defense of
slavery. Now, why would somebody

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who claims to be on the side
of black Americans make a first defensive slavery

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Because he came right out and said, they're not equal. They're basically stupid

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people. That's intellient. You can't
do anything with them. And fortunately for

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them, under slavery, they are
the freest people in the world because the

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white man is taking care of all
of their needs, and because they can't

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compete with whites because they are intellectually
and morally inferior. If you got a

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rid of slavery, they'd have to
compet against white people in a market economy,

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in a capitalist economy, and that's
when they really get trouts. So

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we've better keep them as slaves.
Now, people have said well, so

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you found one guy back in the
eighteen fifties, Oh no, I found

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a lot of people. You can
just fast forward to the late nineteenth century

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and you get Richard Eli and the
other progressives. They said pretty much the

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same thing. Oh no, we
want to take care of black people,

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and it's just that we know that
they're inferior to us. And by the

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way, I'm not exaggerated. I
quote these people word for word in The

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War on Virtue and then in nineteen
eighty eight, more recent times, Charles

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Murray, the distinguished American Enterprise Institute
SCALA, who wrote a wonderful piece well

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the Coming of Pistodial Democracy, wherein
he picted that in future years, the

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white ruling class would be the custodians
taking care of black people the way we

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take care of Indians as wards of
the state. In other words, the

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white ruling class does not look upon
black people as equals. If they did,

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they would treat them as equals.
But they're saying, as you can't

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make it without us, and we
will force the quality, we will order

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it into being, because you're not
equal the way we are. That is

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why I say they are the ultimate
racist in our society today and not unrelated,

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you write about this as well,
the approach to poverty that the War

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on Virtue ends up taking. Can
you tell us more about how this ends

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up really, as you say,
devaluing the poor. Yeah, I mean

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you just take a look at the
black family. I mean it went through

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the hay Day of slavery, and
you had a great sex and balance between

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men and women. Or they wanted
more men over here to do the hard

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work. That doesn't create for a
stable environment. It did have a stable

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environment with blacks who were not slaves, and they did have a nice sex

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ratio pretty even between the number of
men and women. They grew up to

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have the first Black middle class,
the first Black book. Wassi all the

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way through slavery and discrimination in the
worst parts of it, right up the

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mid A black family not as strong
as the white family, as Moyning Hand

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pointed out. Nonetheless, they weren't
devastated. The devastation took place in the

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nineteen sixties. Now we know that
when economic times are hard, like in

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the nineteen thirties, we expect people
to be on public relief. But when

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they underwood like they were in the
nineteen sixties, almost no unemployment amongst blacks

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as well as whites. Why then
did the welfare state balloon? Why did

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it spike at the time of economic
app ruins. It did so because of

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the civil rights movement was taken over
by some people who made some bad mistakes,

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but exactly what they were doing,
and they said, listen, let's

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get every black person we can find, put them on welfare, make New

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York City go bankrupt. Then the
federal government has to come in and institute

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socialism. And that's how we'll make
progress. Now, who are the day

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Richard Cloward and Francis Fox given a
husband and wife couple from Columbia University giving

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the advice to Mayor John Lindsay.
And that's what they did. They use

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blacks as pawns, as political objects
to further their own political agenda, and

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to this day they don't regret anything. The people have to understand that there

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are people who claim, mostly white
people, not exclusively, who claim to

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have the best interests of blacks and
find and some of them do, and

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they make bad mistakes. You know, there are a lot of good intentions.

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Times you get aired outcomes. I'm
talking here about a hardcore group of

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leftists who are able to capture the
ear of the ruling class and their idea

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of equality is something which state will
order into being because unlike for the book

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who have made a major success,
that is to say, Asians, Jews,

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Mormans and Nigerians, the ruling class
does not believe that that African Americans

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are capable of possessing and exercising the
vital virtues of personal responsibility, perseverance,

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and self discipline. So they feel
it's their job and that of the state

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to push them across the finish line. Yeah, that's really interesting, And

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I also think about how social media
sort of enters the conversation literally the conversation

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around the late aughts and has probably
supercharged some of this as well. What

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are your thoughts on, you know, whether social media is maybe democratizing the

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conversation, as a lot of people
would say, it's showing the ideological corruption

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bias of people who control, you
know, the ruling class, people who

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control the levers of power in media
and government, etc. Or if it's

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making a lot of these decisions a
lot worse, pouring salt on the wounds,

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etc. What's your thought on that. I make social media overall,

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there's been more of a minus than
a plus. It has certainly been that

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way for teenage girls. They have
suffering more than any other segment of the

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population. Yes, there are some
good things about social media, which we

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hop can talk about, but unfortunately
because back even before social media, just

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with the entire idea of the Internet, which has done some great things,

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and as a researcher, I love
it. I don't have to leave my

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office to do some really great research. On the other hand, it has

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also created a society where everybody who
has an uninformed opinion is all of a

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sudden mister genius who is an expert, just like everybody else. So what

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you have to people who are professional
researchers like myself, I can make the

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distinction between somebody who's a junior league
person, somebody who's a crazy right wing

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racist or a crazy left wing racist, and somebody who has has something to

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say. But to the undiscerning eye
or ear of Americans, they can't really

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make that distinction too often. And
so what they have is they well,

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now I don't know if I can
believe that because I heard X, Y,

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and Z, because they don't know
enough to discern what the source is,

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what was the source of X,
Y and Z, in order to

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determine what it is? And unfortunately, today a lot of the divisions that

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are created racial divisions in particular,
or fomented by people some on the right,

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but more of them on the left, who are taking advantage of the

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moment, would heighten racial tensions.
Try and make the argument that things are

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now worse than ever before. As
a matter of fact, in terms of

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education and income, things have never
been better for Black Americans than they are

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today in twenty twenty three, nowhere
near, And as Glenn Lowry and other

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black scholars have pointed out, no
place in the world are black Americans better

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off in terms of education and economic
welfare and permitting conditions than they are in

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the United States. But nonetheless,
we are fed the steady diet that every

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time there might be a negative interaction
between a cop and a black guy,

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therefore the entire country is reeking of
racism. So when blacks kill blacks,

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as they do all the time in
places like Chicago, nobody says the word

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if black lives matter, and of
course they do. It shouldn't matter whether

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whether the violence is taking place in
the womb or whether it's being taking place

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at the hands of other blacks.
It should matter equally in every case,

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but we're playing off of the racial
stereotype trying to make it this way.

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And I try to go through this
scolly material and debunk it in War on

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Virtue. And that raises this question
of why it is people on the left

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don't see what is clearly racism or
classism as exactly that. They think it's

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it's pro poor, it's you know, they'll call things anti poverty that are

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actually the opposite. They will call
things anti racists that are actually nakedly,

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very clearly the opposite of that.
Why is it that they're so deluded and

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confused by these definitions. Well,
a couple of things here. I think

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that it would be fair to say
of most liberal minded Americans who who swallow

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this, that they've been somewhat deluded, somewhat indoctrinated. However, there's a

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hardcore group of leftists and they're not
delusional at all. They hate America,

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That's what I'm saying. They hate
America. Jean Kirkpatricks was brilliant, one

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of my favorites, head of the
Round the un for the ambassador for the

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UN back in the nineteen eighties under
Reagan. She tooted Georgetown wrote many books.

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He's the one who talked about Firth, the hatred that so many of

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these people have. They always blame
America first. And I spent many years

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as a professor, in many years
on the National Association of Scholars board.

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There is a sizable segment. I'm
not saying most professors, but I am

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saying not a few who literally hate
America, Western civilization. And unlike the

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mortist in the past, who well, they didn't understand human nature and they

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had a fluida interpretation of history,
they did try to make things better.

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They thought that by having capitalism crash, we could then institute socialism and then

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in communism and there you go,
bingo, we got nirvana, the utopian

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At least they had some good motives
at the end. However, what are

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you're dealing with today? Or nihilists? People who know they can't defend the

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Soviet Union, Paul Potts, Cambodia, Vous China, gastros cue, but

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they can't defend this anymore. They've
all wound up in bloodshed. But are

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they happy to come over to our
side? No, so like a little

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boy who builds the erector chip,
he said, he's in a burnt pown

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right away. They're into not only
the politics of personal destruction, They're into

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into the politics of the nation's destruction. They hate America and the great division.

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That's what this is all about.
This is about division, and you

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saw it's it's early manifestation back in
the nineteen eighties with the development of multicosualism

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in the Academy's never about let's respect
other people's cultures. It was always about

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let's tear down Western civilization, and
we will do it by dividing people against

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each other. That's why we have
separate graduation ceremonies based on race in almost

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all the Ivy League school Why else
would we have that? Isn't that with

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plan hearing for that snation? How
we have the left wing is about the

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clan didn't want in one integration because
they hated black people. They need the

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left wing people in the ruling class. They want segregation because they want to

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divide people. Once you look at
it in that protective and all of a

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sudden, your eyes will open,
And I know a lot of people felt

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like this happened really quickly, or
that it got mainstreamed really quickly, because

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you know, it's sort of lingered
on the fringes of academia for a really

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long time, but not really.
I mean, if you go back to

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Jesse Jackson, you know, hey, hey, hoho, Western sieve has

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got to go, all of that
stuff. I'm curious for your perspective on

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the path that you know, people
now would call it wokeness, but the

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sort of fringe radical cultural leftism has
taken from those fringes and then gone,

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you know, into the point where
you're hearing it on cable news, you're

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hearing it and the New York Times, whatever it is. How did that

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happen? And how did that happen
in a way that feels really fast to

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a lot of America. Well,
I'm glad you mentioned Jesse Jackson, but

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I mentioned yeah, you're right,
hey, hey, oh, let's Western

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culture has got to go. He
said that back in the nineteen eighties at

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Stanford University that was pushing multiculturalism.
But what he did was even a worse

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as any as bad as anything him
and him and now I'll shoupon they were

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shakedown artists on Wall Street to give
us what we want, or we're going

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to create some problems for you.
So they wrote him checks. Well,

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fast forward to what we've had here
with with the Riyots in twenty cop interactions

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and people exploited it like Antieper and
Black Lives Matter, and they began to

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shakedown of Wall Street in these places, and to get them off their back,

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they wrote the same checks they wrote
earlier to Jackson, to Shopton.

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Now what we have is no longer
is this hatred of America U and this

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division U centered in the education area, in the arts, in the media

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and entertainment industry. It's now it's
now captured the healthcare industry, the military,

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the FBI. These are all traditional
institutions which either never got involved in

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politics, or if they did,
they were supportive of traditional moral values,

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Disney being a classic example among them. Now, the good news is that

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just recently we're seeing some pushback on
the whole transgender agenda. Who're seeing what

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happened with bud Light. Okay,
and I don't think this is going away

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all too quickly. People who are
beginning to say, wait a minute,

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enough is enough, We've gone too
far. It's one thing to ask for

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tolerance. But you're not looking for
tolerance, You're looking to shove down our

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throats a radical, militant, secular
agenda which which we rescily disagree with.

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So this fight, Emily, is
not over. I'm not a seer.

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I don't know which way to wind
up. I am saying the culture has

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moved left, but there's some signs
a pushback, And I say this culture

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war is not over. It.
Anybody who thinks it can't get worse is

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crazy. I also think you're crazy. You think if you think there's an

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iron war of history and were and
we're done, close up shop. No,

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both extreme interpretations are wrong. It
helps us up for grants. M

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Yeah, okay, that's that's really
interesting as well, because it leads into

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something you also write about, incivility. There's incivility is often rewarded in our

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media culture now, and it's not
just more pronounced um, you know,

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among our everyday reactions. It's also
the incentive system has shifted so that it's

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you know, it becomes a vicious
cycle. We reward incivility. What part

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of the war on virtue? UM
then creates that process of just a less

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civil culture. Well, we can
begin with with with parents and the broken

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families that we see across the country. It's very difficult. Boys in particular

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need fathers, all right, Girls
need them too, but boys need them

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at least to tame them because they
have a higher just us their own rate,

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which is why they're more risk prone, which is why they're more likely

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to get involved in violent crime.
And when you don't have that, when

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you have a breakdown, that's when
you've got the situation getting under control.

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The schools are not demanding discipline.
They have now equity education, which means

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that you have to have a quota
for the number of kids who can be

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disciplined. They say it's a problem
of people of color. No, it's

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not a problem of people of color. The Asians are almost never involved,

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all right. It's usually whites and
Hispanics and blacks in an ascending order there.

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And it typically is related to the
fatherless families. I make the point

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in the book I come from a
fatherless family and I was constantly in trouble

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throughout my young years. It has
nothing to do with race. That's racist,

350
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and has everything to do with the
absence of the father, which today

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00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,680
seventy of the black kids have born
out of wedlock, this time in the

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nineteen sixties because, as I said, because of what the ruling class did,

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creating welfare dependency into destroying the family. It's not inherent in black people.

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So that's part of the problem there
in the schools. And now you

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00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,880
have to add George Sorrows. All
right, he comes in and he funds

356
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,680
the district attorneys in Los Angeles,
Gascone, Brand New York City, places

357
00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:21,839
like Chicago and the last guy who
just got just one Philadelphia. They're all

358
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,720
funded by George Soros, the intentional
breakdown of the social order. Don't arrest

359
00:27:26,799 --> 00:27:32,559
people, Alvin Briggs said, just
lastly, the dam here in New York

360
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said, we should not arrest black
kids for poverty, for stealing, because

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they come from poverty. Now just
think about that. You're not going to

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arrest black kids for stealing, but
theft because they come from poverty. Now,

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00:27:45,319 --> 00:27:48,640
I've worked in Spanish, all of
them. I'm a sociologist who is

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00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:55,200
torch criminology. Guess who young black
steal from. They don't go into Beverly

365
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Hills, all right. They steal
from other black people, often women.

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So he telled the black woman who
had her purse taken from her and all

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our money has gone, and our
credit guards that we don't want to prosecute.

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I didn't even though we have him
in our custody because he's black and

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he comes from a poor neighborhood.
What do you think she is? Where

370
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do you think she lives? I
mean, this is another example of just

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in this case here a black elites
on the left looking down on their own

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people, and that's what we're faced
with. You we have to pull the

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mask off of this facade that if
I have good intentions and my rudder is

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good, therefore I am good.
I don't believe that for a moment.

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You have to look look deeper to
find out in every case whether that is

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true or it's not true. Now, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask.

377
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:47,400
You mentioned the FBI. Some of
this has obviously seemed into the FBI,

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and particularly we've learned recently with a
target on the Catholic Church, this

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idea that some parishes should be as
we've seen in FBI documents, some parishes

380
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:02,160
should be infiltrated by informants in order
to keep tabs on, you know,

381
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,799
potential domestic terrorism, How does how
do you react to how have you reacted

382
00:29:07,839 --> 00:29:14,480
to hearing all of that about the
FBI? Today we look back on former

383
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,000
eras of the FBI not as proudly
as we probably you know, would have

384
00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:22,319
preferred the FBI to be operating differently. But now it seems they're doing something

385
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:26,559
even more insidious. But in particular
with particular regard to the Catholic Church,

386
00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:30,920
how have you reacted to news of
the FBI's targeting well, you know,

387
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,279
as an Irish Catholic New Yorker,
surprise, surprise, second generation. I

388
00:29:36,319 --> 00:29:41,480
come from a family of an awful
lot of law enforcement people, and I've

389
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,039
always loved them, and I still
do as family members as many of them

390
00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:48,240
have past. But quite frankly,
I've never say anything like this in my

391
00:29:48,279 --> 00:29:51,799
life. And I'm not talking about
the average FBI man or woman who's an

392
00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:55,359
agent. I'm talking about the elites. It's always the elites. It's the

393
00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,359
ones that who have become corrupt.
Now they began by going after ju aditional

394
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,599
Catholics who like the Latin Mass.
Now listen, I like the Latin Mass.

395
00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:07,240
I don't go to it. I
go to the Nova's Order, which

396
00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:11,279
is the new Mass, and that's
fine. I've met a lot of people

397
00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:15,119
who are the traditional Catholics who prefer
the Latin Mass. Some of them I

398
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,680
like, some of them I don't
like. They can get a little far

399
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,400
out there in some cases. But
quite frankly, I've never known any of

400
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,240
them to be a threat to the
social order. They're not exactly Antifa.

401
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,880
So I wonder what is the FBI
doing? But then things got worse.

402
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,759
Then things get worse. Now the
latest revelation is they started going after mainline

403
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:40,000
Catholics. No, it's not just
the traditional ethics, which is bad enough

404
00:30:40,079 --> 00:30:42,319
because they didn't do any wrong.
But you go after the mainline people,

405
00:30:42,359 --> 00:30:47,640
the ones who go to the English
Mass, so to speak. And what

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have they done? Why are you
asking Catholics to spy on each other?

407
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,599
And that's what the FBI has been
doing. Now. This is an egregious

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00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:02,319
violation of the First Amendment, the
right to free exercise of religion. The

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00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:07,640
idea that the government, the FBI
is now going to police Roman Catholics is

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00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:12,400
either Pew, not even some extremists, but the ones in their Pew who

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00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:18,119
are great contributed to American society.
This is a very, very dangerous path

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00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,079
that we're going down. And I
wouldn't care if they're going after Jews or

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00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:27,240
Muslims, or Protestants or Mormons.
If you're talking about the average person in

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00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:30,799
every group is a good person.
If you got an extremist and you think

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00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:34,960
there's violence there, okay, that's
different. The FBI wasn't doing that.

416
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:38,839
They were just simply going after at
this case, now all Catholics. They

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00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,599
started with the Some people might regard
them as the fringe. I don't,

418
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,240
but if you want to call them
as fringe, fine, But now they're

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00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,200
going after the ones in the pew, the mainline Catholics. There's no evidence

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00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:56,839
whatsoever the Catholics are the country.
Meanwhile, Antipa and James Revenge, the

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00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:02,079
pro abortion group have been thrashing and
vandalists and destroying Catholic property and killing people.

422
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,960
And what has been the response of
the DOJ under Merritgal and I've written

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00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:09,359
Jim several times, what have they
done? At least Jim Jordan, the

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00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:14,880
Jim of the House Indistry, has
responded and it is looking into this.

425
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,119
But we've got to get to the
bottom of this. We can't have corruption

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00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:22,240
in eye places when we deal with
this religion in particular, you know,

427
00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:27,039
and that's a good place to start, you know, winding down here because

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00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,880
the ruling class, as you use
in the title, um and I think

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00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:36,039
it's a great definition of the kind
of enemy. It's a virtue here.

430
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:45,000
How do you go about truly changing
the ruling class in an era where they're

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00:32:45,079 --> 00:32:50,640
using the FBI to go after the
Catholic Church. What can what can be

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00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,160
done for the future to ensure that
rather than waging a war on virtue,

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00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,599
our ruling class upholds virtue. Well, I think we can again with the

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00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,400
corporate ruling class for than government.
In the terms of the government, you

435
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,920
have to vote people out, you
who are putting in the DA's like who

436
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,279
are the Soil's fund of das.
In terms of the corporate world, which

437
00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:15,160
is a great disappointment, they've gotten
so involved in this. I'm telling about

438
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:21,119
Walmart as well, not just Apple
and Google and an Ouphment and and others.

439
00:33:21,279 --> 00:33:27,680
Because we've even seen religious organizations,
unfortunately a wonderful group the Salvation Army,

440
00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:32,599
where the elites have been selling out
to adopting critical racetary Most of the

441
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:38,359
people in the corporate world would rather
be a political they'd rather be agnostic.

442
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:43,000
They'd rather just go back there and
sell their brand. And that's why the

443
00:33:43,079 --> 00:33:45,799
thing that's happening with bud Light is
so important, because if there's a pushback,

444
00:33:46,359 --> 00:33:49,559
I mean, it's going to be
the push up. It has to

445
00:33:49,599 --> 00:33:52,640
come from the bottom up, not
the top down the tops. The problem

446
00:33:52,920 --> 00:34:00,519
the top is the pump pushback.
If they earned that we have paid attention

447
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:06,039
to the shareholders and not the stakeholders
or the activists, they'll begin to say,

448
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,079
you know what, we went to
par in the first place. Why

449
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:13,760
don't we just get back and sell
soap, sell talcolm powder, sell beer,

450
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,400
sell cheese, whatever it is that
we're selling, sell shoes. Why

451
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:22,840
do we have to make a political
statement about everything? And I think that

452
00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:27,760
quite frankly, there would be a
sigh of relief in many corporate quarters where

453
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,760
they'd say, let's make that shift. So I don't believe that this thing

454
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,639
is irreversible. I think that you
have to vote people out who are in

455
00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:37,000
government, in the ruling class,
and I think you have to push back

456
00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:40,880
in the way of Boycott's and the
like with the corporate world. And this

457
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:46,760
can be done. It's just that
we have a long ways back. Fantastic

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00:34:47,079 --> 00:34:51,840
insight. Thank you so much both. Donnay, author of the War on

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00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,400
Virtue, How the ruling class is
killing the American Dream. We really appreciate

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00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,239
you joining the show. Well,
thank you for this opportunity. Keep up

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00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,000
to great work. Of course you've
been listening to another edition of The Federalist

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00:35:02,079 --> 00:35:06,199
Radio Hour. I'm Emily Dreshinski,
culture editor here at The Federalist. We'll

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00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,199
be back soon with more. Until
then, be lovers of freedom and anxious

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00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:09,920
for the frame.