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The the the the the the the
the the the the the the the the

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the the the the late night stream. We're gonna have fun. There was

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a lot that I wanted to hit
in these videos the other night that we

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didn't get to, So we're gonna
hit them now and then we'll open it

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up to debates, questions, answers, challenges, argumentation. Let's go ahead

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and get into it because we left
off with Trent Horn in this video that's

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going around from the Roman Catholic trad
and not so trad circles. Mass of

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the Ages discuss seeing the Latin Mass, the attempts to suppress them, a

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part of Francis and the reaction of
Catholics who don't want it suppressed and who

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think that they can tell the Pope
what to do when it comes to writes.

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The first couple installments had several one
hundred thousand views. Le's know one

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hundred thousand, so Mass of the
Ages guardians of tradition. Let's see where

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Trent's arguments go. We had seen
earlier that his argument was basically, I

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know this is going to be a
shocker to everybody but the Keys mckey's,

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mckey's and mckey's Matthew sixteen is really
the only passage that exists in the Bible

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from the minds of these people,
sort of like if you're a Calvinist,

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Romans nine is really the only passage
that matters. If you're a Roman Cathol

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Matthew sixteen. There's some other verses
in there. There's a couple other chapters

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that might matter, but let's see
if we get any more argumentation beyond McKees.

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But that does not mean that every
single thing the Church does is always

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going to be optimum. There are
prudential decisions that are made, such as

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what kind of liturgy is put forward
in a missile? For example, we

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got to take the sixty two missile. Go oh really, so liturgical rights

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are not necessarily optimum. As I
mentioned, these people have not read Denzinger,

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because had they read it, they
would know that there's a document called

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doctorum Fide. Doctorum Fide is the
condemnation of the Jansenists. We'll go to

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the Catholic Encyclopedia summation of it because
it's not easily accessible, but it said

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seventeen ninety four document the Condemns.
It's in Densinger while Pious the sixth,

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the Sonata Pistoia, which was the
Jansenist Synod, and it says that actually

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you should probably read the actual document, but it basically says that you have

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to listen to the Roman seized decisions
on all sorts of matters that you can't

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pick and choose. Let's see if
we can actually find the text itself.

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Maybe here, yeah, here we
go, and there's a specific statement about

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the rights. No, that's not
it. Here we go. So the

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forceful condemnation of the errors of the
robber Sonata Pistoia in seventeen eighty six in

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Italy, like the modernist Second Vatican
Council of this website is arguing correctly,

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the Snata Pistoia introduced novelties under a
veil of ambiguity and thus injecting the air

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into the church. Pull Pius the
six fired back with this apostolic constitution.

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This is Densinger fifteen oh one to
fifteen ninety nine, and here are some

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of the highlights. There is a
conspiracy against the church novelties innovation. I'm

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gonna skip past all this flowery language, and the essence of it gets to

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the point that even this document's missing
the point. The point is that you

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can't. I wish that Denzinger was
accessible. Maybe it is, let's see

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fifteen oh one, let's try this. Here we go, Yes, and

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it was to fifteen ninety nine.
I think yeah. It's it notes that

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it's similar to the Gallican error right
where you can pick and choose the rights,

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or that you can pick and choose
the synods, or that you can

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introduce a national synod that goes against
the Holy See. You can't have provoking

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a national council. But since there's
ninety different propositions. Actually as a part

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of this, I don't have my
Denzinger with me. How it marked,

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But there's a specific section where he
talks about that you don't have the right

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to call into question the rights of
the Roman See. So the Roman Sea

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enacts a liturgical rite in oxhorn fee
de. You can't reject that. And

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so that goes against the very thing
that Trent said, even though Trent used

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the language of calling it imprudent,
even that you can't call into question it

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is decision of the Roman See that's
applicable to the church dogmatically or morally.

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It wouldn't make any sense to call
into question the church can't give poisoned or

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what was Trent's word, non appropriate
or non judicious? Let's say what his

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word was. Again, Christ's promised
that the gates of Hell would not prevail

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against the Church. And so we
speak about things like the indefectibility of the

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church, like when we follow what
the Church teaches, it will not lead

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us away from Jesus Christ, it
will not lead us into error, it

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will not lead us into sin.
But that does not mean that every single

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thing the Church does is always going
to be optimum. There are prudential decisions

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that are made, such as what
kind of liturgy is put forward in a

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missile? For example, we got
to take the two missile, go back

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to the council, see what happened, and reform that reform. You can

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say that those officially, probably the
reformist, were a mistake. You know,

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there sure should be a lot of
mistakes in history. You know,

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we're trying to correct the mistake.
Man, you said nothing about pitch changing

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the direction for nothing at all.
The problem is the official Vatican two said

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nothing at all about changing the direction
of the He stumbled there the liturgy pretty

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sure it did change the leturgy.
So what are you talking about, like

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this boomer priest here a way where
you've been so I'm pretty sure, Uh,

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he's out of touch. I don't
know. But there's always this cope

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too of Oh well, Vdican two
actually didn't change anything, right, this

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is one of the copes. But
I wanted to see specifically. If you

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remember, the Jansenists were arguing for
a lot of what traditional Catholics and a

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lot of what Protestants also argued,
and so they were calling to question the

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ultimately the authority and the reach of
the Roman Sea. And the problem is

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that in Roman Catholic theology, Vatican
one builds on earlier documents like the condemnation

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of the Senator Pistoia. But the
council, it says in the Catholic and

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Psychopedia the center of Pistoia, the
Jansenist council was imbued with regalism and Jansenism

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a misregarded zeal for discipline and worship, and so they wanted to get a

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king to reform and change doctrine,
discipline, liturgy, so it would have

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been more in the hands of the
king rather than the Roman Catholic bishopric.

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Or the Roman Sea to restore to
the bishops their native rights taken by the

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Roman court. So now we're getting
into the you know, the Roman College,

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the College of the cardinals, right, that's the court beyond just the

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office of the Pope. Eighteen Tuscan
bishops convoke the synod. Of the eighteen

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Tuscan bishops, three canvote the synod. It goes on to say that the

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jansen Is propaganda was condemned undervaluing indulgences
was condemned. Interestingly, it says that

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Pious the sixth condemned sacred Heart.
I was not aware of that. To

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me, that would suggest yet another
contradiction if the sacred Heart becomes later on

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something that's almost universal in the Roman
Catholic world. Of course, the sacred

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Heart devotion is itself a Nestorian error. It falls under the condemnation of the

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Council of Ephesus, because you can't
divide up the adoration given to Christ has

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to be a single adoration to the
whole incarnate Christ. Goes on to say

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that the Council, with its theologians
and canonists, had a notorious Gallican and

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Jensen's tennessee Gallicanism again, is the
idea that synods. That's an older French

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tradition, that the council. It's
basically an older Orthodox idea. The reason

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for Gallicanism is that the Church in
the West in these early centuries still had

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remnants of non papal ideas. So
that's what Gallicanism is. And so the

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center epistoy was trying to introduce to
a lot of these things that you hear

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trads repeat to this day. The
Church can give bad liturgical rights, the

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romancy, the romance, he can
give us abusive defective rights. Defective rights

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is a specific terminology that's condemned,
I think. So anyway, that was

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what the center of Pistoia was about. And there's a specific passage in Dingier

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where it says that if you say
that the Romans he can give defective rights,

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this is a heretical thing that every
pious person should close their ear to.

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Right, Let's see if I can
find that exact statement. But we're

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going to move on after this.
There you go. Pious is six torm

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Fide, which proponents of the Novisorto
sometimes appeal to, says that the Church

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can never promulgate a defective right Now
this is an argument from Crisis magazine,

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But this is making the point that
I'm talking about here. It is some

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people say that, citing octorm Feede, the church cannot probably get defective,

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useless, or harmful rights citing octorm
feede. Yeah, that's because that's what

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doctorm Feede says. Is it twenty
five ninety seven? Maybe let's se if

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this is you can finally find it. Why would this go to twenty five

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ninety eight when I want twenty five
ninety seven. Anyway, anyway, that's

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the that's the section. And then
I'm sure the try the Roman. Oh

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well, I don't have to listen
to octorm feede. Oh yeah, yeah

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sure. Right. So again it's
infallible and it's indefectible until it's not.

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So that's how this whole thing works. Let's get back to Trent here and

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see where he goes. Well,
Promagator is a Vatican too, did say

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that a mass should be celebrated facing
the Still he doesn't have the same weight

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as your captle of the document,
you see, But wouldn't it be a

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faithful Cathletic who would say I am
raised all six celebrated. Oh so the

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document that they all go by doesn't
have the same authority as the rest of

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the documents. So here we introduct
this made up levels of authority the documents

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in which nobody can actually I mean, I'm not saying it's made up in

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the sense that they don't have levels, but who actually knows and can tell

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you what these levels are? Nobody, And that's why it's intentionally vague.

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And it's just people debating at infinitum
about what the authoritative documents actually are facing

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the people. So to be a
faithful Catholic, we should that'spolotry, that's

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i papolotry. So doing what the
pope says, which is what Vatican one

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says, is papolotry. Okay,
I've lived through five or six popes.

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Again, sorry, father Boomer,
that's not actually an argument. We don't

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care how many popes you've lived through. There has nothing to do with whether

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or not Vatican one says that you
have to subm it with docility, even

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to the non infallible rulings of the
Roman see, which it does teach I

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can't readjust my life every time the
pope comes on the sea. I have

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to attribute everything which any pope does
according to the whole long two thousand issue

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this year, I can't. Oh
so there's not a living magisterium by which

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you submit to the existing living pope, which is what Vatican One teaches.

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No, No, there's an ethereal
two thousand year long tradition that I will

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judge the pope submitting to or failing
to submit to, and then I will

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judge him on that basis, even
though Roman Catholic canalog to this day still

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says no one judges the first sea. Oh, you know, turn off

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the air conditioners, so I gotta
do that. Well, one of the

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new funds. This is the error
that both this guy here in this example

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and Tim Gordon have made, which
is that, oh, so if the

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Pope tells me that I have to
sell my backyard to the Vatican so they

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can expand I'll have to do it
because I have everything. The Pope says,

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No, that's a straw man.
Nobody ever said that. You said

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that we have to do everything,
the Pope said, the question is dog

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mus So he just made this dumb, false analogy to turning the air conditioning

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on. By the way, they
don't have air conditioning in Rome. So

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when you go to Rome, I
mean half the places don't have it.

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Half the other places won't turn it
on. So bad example too in terms

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of Rome, because Italy and Rome
don't even have air conditioning if you go

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so No, this is a ridiculous
analogy. It's faith and morals. You

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have to submit with docility in anything
that the Romans he teaches in terms of

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faith and morals, and you don't
get the privilege, the prerogative to sit

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back and judge when it's what if
we get two great holy folks in Rome,

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you know, John Paul two and
Benedict and who who deeply Catholic faithful?

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So wait a minute, if they
were both deep holy popes, then

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why were they doing the novsorto like
everyone else that you're saying is not the

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proper way to do it. So
they don't even know how to do the

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novsorto right correctly, but you do, and the other pseudo trads know how

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to You see, how silly this
is? What say he knows better than

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I. He had one shirt with
him. I want to do what he

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wants to do. You know,
that makes a lot of sense, But

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the problem is they kind of confused
the kind of conflated personal piety and brilliant

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with the office of Peter. Yeah, Vatican One makes the living person the

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living embodiment of the office. So
you'll notice right there, even with a

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novasorto priest who wants to kind of
be trad he himself already has to utilize

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the platonic papacy, the ethereal papacy
that exists in the clouds and in the

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realm of the forms that every trad
is in union with, and not the

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actual guy over in Rome, who
is the living vicar. Okay. The

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chair is not an ethereal chair,
it's the person. The person is the

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embodiment, not the chair. Chair
is like a term. Okay, So

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if the pope, if he lost
the chair, if it got burned up

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in a fire, so we don't
have the sea anymore. This is silly,

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but it moved to France for seventy
years. It's the person, it's

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not where he puts his butt.
Okay, this is so dumb, and

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it's not a thing in the clouds. That is the list in your head

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of what you think Denzinger teaches and
what you think the Catechism of teaches,

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and what the way you want to
read Vatican one and Vatican two. That's

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called Protestantism. And that's why everybody
who's a set of a calm this for

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example, or Orthodox is correct to
point out these people's contradiction in doing the

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very same thing that the old Catholics
did, which is condemned in Etsy Maulta

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in cyclicals condemning old Catholics like Etsy
Malta, and the condemination of the Jansoness

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a couple hundred years earlier in oxhorn
Feede. They're condemning the very moves that

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you're making, and so they have
come with all these false equivalences. But

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we're not exactly identical to the Janseness. So it's not condemning that position.

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It doesn't matter. It's the same
principle that you're violating at the church.

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And he has supreme juridical authority,
and imagine, okay, authority in the

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church has absolute Yeah, but I'm
pretty sure that the novis Orto comes under

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the liturgical jurisdiction that you just mentioned, because the novs Orto is a liturgy.

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So the very thing that you just
mentioned here, Chubby Man, is

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the very thing that is under the
purview of supreme jurisdiction, and that's one

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of the things mentioned in octomp days. They all say this, they love

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to repeat this, but they don't
actually show you the documents of Vatican one.

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And by the way, pasta Attornis
is not the only thing in Vatican

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one that's part of Vatican one.
And it's like, have they even read

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Vatican one? Or do they just
repeat the mantra, the nugget, the

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news line, the tweet that the
Pope cannot do everything that anything that he

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wants to, he's not an absolutely
rouller. Well have you read Vatican one

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because you repeat these lines and I
don't know that they actually have, because

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I've shown I've put it up.
I don't know how many times it's on

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Twitter. I can share it again. And there's at least four places in

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Denzinger that say and condemn the idea
that you're only bound to follow the Pope

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in his extraordinary and universal ordinary teaching. That idea is condemned four times,

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and it's explicitly said that you have
to also follow the rest of the stuff,

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even if you disagree, even if
you think it's fallible, you're still

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supposed to submit with docility, you
don't have the right to publicly oppose the

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romancy. And it's just so obvious
to people that read those documents. And

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remember, this whole system is supposed
to be based on what's obvious evidentially in

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the documents. We'll just read the
documents. It'll be clear. Just read

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the documents. If you go back
and read in the first few centuries,

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the privacy of the Roman sea is
clearly there in all the documents and all

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the church fathers. That's what Leo
the Thirteen says. Leo the Thirteen says,

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I just have to go read the
documents and it's clearly there. But

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you'll notice, oh, but it's
not clearly there, because now we need

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a army of fallible Roman Catholic priests
and philosophers and theologians to explain the infallible

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documents. See how silly this is. The dogmatic documents are supposed to settle

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the issue, but now we have
to go to the interpreter of the interpretation,

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of the interpretation of the interpretation.
This is the silliness of this epistemic

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circle that they're always involved in.
It's an epistemic bootstrapping exercise in the religious

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realm, and they don't even know
when you critique the epistemology. They're totally

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lost. They don't know what you're
talking about when you make this basic critique,

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which that they'd had an epistemology class, right, I mean, anybody

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in the chat, anybody listening that's
had an epistemology class. Everybody knows you're

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going to encounter classical foundationalism, evidentialism, and the challenge is to those positions.

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And these people act like nobody's ever
challenged anything since the Middle Ages.

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It's just ridiculous. What the heck
We got Himmler, We got Hemmler on

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here talking what the heck is going
on? What am I listening to?

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Himmler's over here telling me about the
damn Vatican One? We got some tiny

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mustache man followers up in here.
The Pope is not the lord of the

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liturgy, again, made up straw
men terms. What does that even mean?

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Lord of the liturgy? Well,
actually, Vatican won in the four

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places I mentioned in Denziger said that
he has absolute authority over the rights.

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He does have authority over the rights, and hence why you can't say that

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the Roman sea can promulgate defective rights. So this is false. But you'll

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00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:53.039
notice that their rhetoric always paints the
other position in this absurd extreme position that

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nobody's saying. Right, Oh,
you think the Pope can told me to

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turn off my air conditioner because he's
absolutely afforded and which has nothing to do

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with what's under the purview of dogma, faith and morals. Okay, yeah,

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00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:17.680
wow? Is that he can get
rid of this guy is all like

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this guy. I don't even know
who this guy is, but his fat

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00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:25.079
fingers and his giant gut and his
weird beard. Like I could just tell,

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like this guy and I we don't
get along. I don't know this

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00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:30.240
guy, but I can tell this
guy hates me, Like I already know

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00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:36.400
that just just from the look of
this dude. And the only thing missing

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00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:40.079
is that he has hair. Because
everybody hates me on the internet, save

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00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:44.720
beautiful Tristana is bald. It's like
all these bald dudes have joined in a

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00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:48.279
coalition army to destroy and come after
me. It's always the bald dudes.

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00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:52.039
I think they're just jealous of my
beautiful golden locks, which are kind of

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00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:56.480
red to so they're kind of copper
gold locks. So we got a lot

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00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:02.920
of hair envy going wild on the
internet. It's okay, but I'd do

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00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:04.759
this, dude, I can just
like I mean, he's got some damn

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viing a sausage Prince Charles fingers going
on here, essential elements. And he

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00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:15.720
looks mad. He just looks like
a fat matted like he's ready to he's

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ready to take you out back in
brawl. But he's too passive aggressive I

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00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:22.960
actually fight you, And so he'll
just fume and like get really red in

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the face for the mess. He
can't you say, we're going to concentrate

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instead of wheat. Oh okay,
so the Pope can't do anything that he

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wants. Nobody said or ever thought
or argued that the pope can do anything

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that he wants. But by the
way, there have been debates that Vatican

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won, and even before and after
actually raising these types of questions anyway,

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because remember it's not exactly clear what
this means, because the Roman gallic system

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doesn't actually give you the list.
There's no infallible list of the dogma.

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Do you realize that, right,
it's not just in Denzinger, Well,

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it's not just in Denzinger. Is
it the Densinger plus the Bible? No,

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no, no, You see that
the papal and cyclicals, which are

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a giant collection of books as well, are also full of potentially infallible things.

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Oh oh, well, that's a
lot more I gotta read, isn't

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00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.559
it. Oh but don't forget the
ecumenical councils and their dogmas as well.

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Oh so that's a whole other sack
of books. Oh so where's the list,

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00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:30.480
Well, there's not one. There's
general criteria. Good luck ferreting out

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the infallible and the non infallible in
the tens of thousands of pages literally that

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you now must read. And by
the way, canon law might also fall

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in terms under some of these rulings, because perhaps there's canons that relate to

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the Roman sea. Could those canons
be reformable? Perhaps, but perhaps not.

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You see, the point is that
there's no clear adjudicating between these things.

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By saying, but there are clear
criteria, okay, well, then

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00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:12.079
let's just interject the criteria problem in
epistemology of David Chisholm. Okay, so

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00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:18.000
if there's three or four criteria,
what's the criteria prior to that? That

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00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.480
tells me the non infallible from the
infallible. So there's a more fundamental criteria.

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So how do I know I'm putting
which into which would basket? Oh,

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00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.240
well, you just go get your
canon law degree and you study really

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hard and you have to go learn
Latin. Okay. So now it's not

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the dogmatic office of the papacy that
settles the issues. Now, it's getting

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all the degrees to actually know.
And even getting all the degrees doesn't ever

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00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:47.119
get you to the status of infallibility, right, So that doesn't actually give

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00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:56.279
me anywhere. By the way,
we're not going to just dissect this video,

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which many people requested. We're also
going to dissect uh Tim's analysis of

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the papacy. And we're gonna get
to this other Rouslom video again, which

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is another video of why he's not
gonna be orthodox. So that will come

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up here in a second, and
then we'll open it up to Q and

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A and challenges and so forth.
All right, come on, bro,

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this looks like evil Doug Wilson.
Like, well, Doug Wilson's already evil

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00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:30.640
Doug Wilson, but this is evil
evil Doug Wilson because they come from the

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death of the down really more or
less untouchable. You don't mess with that.

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So you'll notice he's listing things,
but that's assuming that he's using the

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criteria right to put what into what
ben or what basket, And that's never

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gonna be solved. It's an it's
an insolvable, unsolvable box. Due to

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the nature of the system. The
epistemology of Rome can never actually give you

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this solution, you see. So
the same as some very famous assume them.

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When he's talking about the universe,
where he asks where is that Jesus

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lifted his eyes up to heaven.
Where is that in the scripture? It's

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not there. He said that there
are many things that the Lord apostibles that

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are not written in scripture. Nevertheless, sacred tradition, and we are not

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free to get rid of them.
We have to preserve them. In other

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words, pops don't have absolute authority. That supreme authority, and that's supreme

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authority, right, But that doesn't
tell us anything about what to reform and

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what to not reform. So you
gave an example from a Quinas talking about

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00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:55.799
apostolic tradition. Yeah, wow,
good one. Nobody disagrees with absolute tradition

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except a Protestant maybe, but how
does that tell us whether or not the

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00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:06.519
post Vatican two papers he has the
authority to enforce the Novasordo, which they

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clearly do because there are four places
where Vatican two is stated to be authoritative

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and binding, and that includes the
right that comes out of Vatican two.

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And actually Vatican two, if you
don't know, actually reformed all the rights.

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00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.319
So the right of ordination is reformed, the right of marriage I think

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00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:33.240
is reformed as well, and the
ordination of or the novsorto, the divine

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00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:37.839
liturgy, the Mass, the Roman
right is also reformed. So all of

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the rights got reformed. If you
don't know this, got confession as well,

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got reformed. Tradition including tradition,
Mass is completely well, I don't

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00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:59.200
know. Let's ask a cardinal or
is he a bishop. I think he's

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a cardinal. I mean and authority, that supreme authority, and that supreme

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00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:11.079
authority is subbortining to the word of
God tradition, including liturgical tradition. Yeah,

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but the question is not whether the
pope is equal to or right below

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00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:22.200
quote the word of God in the
Roman system. That's not even the question.

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00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:26.079
The question is the interpretation of the
Word of God. And every one

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00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:30.079
of these people, when they argue
with the Protestant, makes the very point

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00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:33.559
I'm making, don't they What are
they going to say to a Protestant You

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00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:40.160
don't have the ability to decide between
conflicting interpretations. Is the period of Protestant

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00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:42.480
sex. There's thirty thousand Protestant sex. You did the Holy Father, because

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00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:45.880
the Holy Father, I'll be able
to tell you the difference between the true

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00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:48.039
of the false sex, and then
you will have certitude in your epistific questioning.

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00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:53.599
Oh really, But now when we
get to the drama within the world

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of the Roman system and we have
the exact same problem, the interpreter's dilemma,

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00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:06.880
they're just ignoring the very question that's
being asked, and they're just restating,

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00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:10.039
well, the Pope can't contradict tradition. He's bound by tradition. Okay,

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00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:14.559
But that doesn't tell us whether this
is in fact a true tradition or

347
00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:20.000
a false tradition. Because these people
are all trying to argue that Francis can't

348
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:28.240
ban the Latin Mass. The Holy
See in their system has supreme authority over

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00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:35.559
the rights. He can determine the
right and Vatican One in the four places

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00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:38.880
I mentioned very clear about that.
So they're all wrong, and they're denying

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00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:43.799
the very arguments and the principle of
the arguments that they make against every Protestant.

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00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:47.599
Do we all see this? Is
this not obvious? And I know

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00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:51.519
this because I've made these arguments.
I went through this whole thing for many

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00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:58.640
years. And who is this person? By the way, Well, I

355
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:04.559
don't know. The ships don't even
know if the Pope can forbid the Latin

356
00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:09.519
Mass. I think he can't do
that. I mean, I think I

357
00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:14.759
think he has his power to do
that. Oh, I don't know,

358
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:21.119
but he can do that. So
even the Roman Catholic bishops are like,

359
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:24.240
so this Vatican One thing when it
comes to supreme authority, like, can

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00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:30.680
he banned the Mass? Huh?
I don't know. I guess he can't.

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00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:37.079
I love how candidn't just kind?
I don't know. I guess all

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00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:45.440
over the world because unnecessary harm.
Back in the Woman, it says some

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00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:51.200
clearish about people authority. Wait a
minute, Tim, it says some clearish

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00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:57.559
things. Now. I don't know
when Tim filmed this, probably before we

365
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:01.599
had our interactions where I sent him
the four places in Denzenger where it outlines

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00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:07.920
exactly what you have to submit to, which is not just the infallible teachings.

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00:34:07.360 --> 00:34:12.039
That's condemned. It's condemned. If
you say I only have to submit

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00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:15.599
to the infallible teachings, you understand
that's condemned. Four places in Denzinger condemn

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00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:21.960
that. But I don't know what
it needs to be supreme and yet not

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00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:28.320
limit it until you've given hypos.
So wait a minute, So the dogmas

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00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:32.000
are only relevant to us as individual
believers when we can list a bunch of

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00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:37.440
hypotheticals. I thought the point of
dogma was to settle issues. Again,

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00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:40.440
what does every one of these people
argue to a Protestant. We have the

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00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:45.280
ability to settle the issues. You
Protestants don't have that. You're oldest fighting

375
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:47.960
with each other in thirty thousand nominations. We can settle the issues. And

376
00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:53.480
then here we are when we're asking
about key issues and the response is I

377
00:34:53.519 --> 00:35:02.119
don't know what supreme is without a
bunch of hypotheticals. Okay, so hypothetically,

378
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:06.800
can the can the pope ban the
Latin Mass? How's that one?

379
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:10.039
Let's try that one on for size
isn't that what this whole documentary is about.

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00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:20.280
Every practicing Catholic must attend at least
two NBA games. Because here we

381
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:25.880
go so straw man false equivalence.
Nobody is arguing or thinking that the definition

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00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:30.559
of Vatican One means that Francis can
come demand that you give your land to

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00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:35.960
the Vatican or demand that you be
conscripted into fighting for the papal army.

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00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:38.599
Oh but wait a minute, the
popes in the past have actually done that.

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00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:45.320
Interesting, so we maybe he actually
can demand that you go to an

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00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:49.840
NBA game. I hope rather that
Francis demands that you go to w NBA

387
00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:52.400
games. That would be even more
based and trad on the part of Francis

388
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:58.360
as an excellent troller, because I
think France is actually trolling the Roman Catholics

389
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:00.920
all the time. So I disagree
with tim and in fact, I hope

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00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:07.519
Francis does mandate some sort of indulgence
plenary at full plenary indulgence for attending two

391
00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:13.159
w NBA games, particularly if they
have migrants on the team. I'm sure

392
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:16.119
Francis will be all for that.
Is it? Folks need to get hit

393
00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:23.360
to the idea that has not been
laid down. Yet Wait a minute,

394
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:28.760
whoa Tim? Wait? First of
all, folks need to get hip to

395
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:34.480
the idea. Did Tim stepping to
be in a boomer for like thirty seconds?

396
00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:37.519
Folks need to get hip to the
idea? Okay, John Denver,

397
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:43.719
I mean, what is this a
total boomer boomer Tim those I'm joking.

398
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:46.719
I liked him a lot, but
totally disagree with Tim here on this point.

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00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:52.480
And by the way, I'm pretty
sure Vatican One's purpose was papal doga.

400
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:55.679
I mean, what do you mean
we don't know what people's supremacy is

401
00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:04.559
that there was a whole council,
two councils back about this, and you

402
00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:09.559
get you young whipper snappers need to
get hip to the idea of the cool

403
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:15.199
kids learning about hepcat and Vatican One. I mean, it's like what that

404
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:20.400
those who say that there's a clear
bright line that keeps that restrats the pope

405
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:25.960
from altering discipline. Okay, well, he's still Scott Staff, He's still

406
00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:32.519
creed dude. That's all I'm gonna
say. Can you take me higher to

407
00:37:32.920 --> 00:37:39.039
operation where the holy seas and the
clouds and the ethereal platonic holy see clouds

408
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:45.360
right the Platonic Holy see that is
not the one over in Rome giving us

409
00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:49.840
the new mask or making the New
Mass the only Roan right. I wish

410
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:52.960
they're right, yeah, but Tim
that is what he can do, and

411
00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:58.480
Vatican one has that principle. There
doesn't mention the rights. But the principal

412
00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:02.360
Vatican One is that he had supreme
authority over the rights. And that's also

413
00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:08.159
in octorm fe day. So I
don't then and now I say, I

414
00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:13.840
hope I'm wrong on this, but
I'm seventy five percent sure. There's no

415
00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:16.239
clear right line. That don't Well. I thought the point of the dogmas

416
00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:20.840
and the councils was to give a
certitude on the key questions, and Vatican

417
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:27.119
One was about the key question of
the Roman Sea and the papacy. But

418
00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:34.159
it only grants seventy five percent surety
on Thames part. I mean, can

419
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:51.719
you take me high power two e
percent domatic surety the traditional from a meeting

420
00:38:52.880 --> 00:39:01.400
yesterday with author rofectively doing away with
the portion of the local bishop in all

421
00:39:01.480 --> 00:39:07.559
aspects of the old Lafe right well, in canon law and Rome or the

422
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:13.480
pulp issues a decree or castole constitution, the local bishop has the power where

423
00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:20.079
the canon as to dispense from provisions
according to the pastoral need in his diocese.

424
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:22.840
Now that's all been changed. So
this rescript is really new law,

425
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:28.360
and it goes in the direction of
deprived bishops of the rights they enjoy the

426
00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:32.800
canon law to make pastoral decisions based
on what they see. Now it's fascinating

427
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:37.280
because traditional is Aesodia position on the
basis of a survey in which we were

428
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:43.599
told that there's a lot of dissatisfaction
among the world's bishops about the traditional la

429
00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:51.880
mess. But I highly doubt that
the way that was interpreted there gives the

430
00:39:51.880 --> 00:40:00.000
impression that every bishop can dispense with
a papal what recommendation if he feels is

431
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:08.559
not spiritually good. Maybe, but
not in faith and morals. The fact

432
00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:14.960
that bishops to continue in their not
something dogmatic or universal teaching of faith and

433
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.559
morals. But you see the ambiguity
of all of this, which is ironic

434
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:23.880
because this whole system is premised on
there not being ambiguity, and that everything

435
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:30.079
is being specifically scholastically defined so that
you know with certitude. And yet here

436
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:34.519
we are, with all of this
ambiguity in the opposite so I think this

437
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:40.559
is a Roman to further marginalize,
restrict, and banish Latin Mass people.

438
00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:51.400
Catholics will very being so oh,
thus the dilemma, and thus the point

439
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:57.199
we often make, which is that
Francis does not care about trads and mocks

440
00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:01.159
them and thinks that they're idiots.
And our whole system is based around you

441
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:06.320
being obedient to your own worst enemy. So there's the irony of this whole

442
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:14.000
thing. Very distressing. It is
distressing because the whole system is distressing.

443
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:24.920
You will be in distress in that
system. Okay, I don't need to

444
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:28.960
hear from boomers that want the Latin
mass. I know, I know boomers

445
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:43.639
want the Latin masks some of them. Yeah, okay, so enough of

446
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:47.280
this. Have you got Scott Scott
Han coming on here? This deal looks

447
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:53.480
like a serial killer even got serial
killer glasses. This is uh, this

448
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:58.039
is father Jeffrey Dahmer right here.
What do we need? What is the

449
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:06.079
problem? And we tailor he's assistance
a secondstances so he's not a bague expectations

450
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:15.480
and come down and he wouldn't have
me if we see reality. Okay,

451
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:21.000
so here we go, Scott hand
the premiere convert Bible scholar of Rome.

452
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:24.639
Right, what's Scott han gonna?
What's going to be his verdict here?

453
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:32.760
And why why are we getting a
giant Han Scott Hank cross shot here?

454
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.239
Do I need to see Scott Han's
junk? I mean, could we not

455
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:39.280
turn the camera at a different angle
to get his balls out of our face?

456
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:44.519
Our father in heaven. If he's
in heaven, then we're not home

457
00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:47.679
no matter where we head after mass
done. Oh wow, that was really

458
00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:53.440
profound. We're in exile, but
here we have no So that's the reality

459
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:59.159
then in enjuring a life of hardship, enduring the life of humiliation, enjuring

460
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:02.079
a long protracted viadela rossa. Yeah. So in other words, uh,

461
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:07.159
suffer, suffer, suffer, deal
with all of the abuse of your hierarchs,

462
00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:13.039
because you're ultimately the bad person.
Okay, so whatever what is that?

463
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:14.840
What does that have to do with
the Latin mass? I'm confused?

464
00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:22.559
And the endurance of who is the
only rational response sufferings? You can endure?

465
00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:27.280
That all separates you from Christ naked
pair of famine, the sword,

466
00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:32.760
no on the country, they from
the wires in the chat you left my

467
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:37.119
rosary, which I don't ever never
people just making up stuff. You left

468
00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:42.039
orthodoxy and quit debating. No,
I said, I was taking a break

469
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:46.880
from debating, especially Muslims U and
I would be debating less because I've been

470
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:53.760
debating for like six years. So
it just made up nonsense. Do a

471
00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:59.039
da you know, or daily masks
or Sunday data or something else? And

472
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:08.519
what is this? Truly and fully
inconsistently parents, So none of that I

473
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:14.199
had anything to do with the question
of this documentary. I don't just be

474
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:21.320
really pious, okay, to find
the mass which is most consistent with the

475
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:25.360
Church's living tradition. Yeah, but
I thought that I can trust the Roman

476
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:30.679
Sea to give me a mass and
rights that aren't defective. I mean,

477
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:34.320
that's the point of octorm p Day. So why would I have to scour

478
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:37.239
the world to find Latin mass outlets? And by the way, the world

479
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:39.119
or the people in the Latin Mass, if you don't know, are a

480
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:44.199
bunch of lunatics. So I've spent
many years in that world and it's all

481
00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:46.880
a bunch of lune So why do
I have to It's like this, it's

482
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:53.880
all just madness. It's like you
must suffer immense abuse and ridiculousness and nonsense,

483
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:58.840
and you must submit to people in
Rome that absolutely hate you and mock

484
00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:01.039
you and despise you, who are
the champions of the revolution. But they're

485
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:06.559
also the Holy Father. And they're
also not connected to giant uh you know,

486
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:10.840
Gladio crime syndicates and giant Vatican bank
scandals. None of that's actually true,

487
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:15.719
even though it is. But just
suffer because that's how it works,

488
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:19.400
bro. And you don't have to
do explain the chiu less, not really

489
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:22.239
like we would do to there or
that. You know, you don't want

490
00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:30.480
the prents ad to be correct the
Priest's wait a minute, so kids shouldn't

491
00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:37.159
have to correct the priest, but
you're correcting your Holy Father. And now

492
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:39.880
here we go with Tim Flanders,
the most humble man on the Internet,

493
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:44.800
who chided all of us as Orthodox
because we're not as humble as him for

494
00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:51.559
submitting to humbly the Pope certainty that
I can give my children a stable liturger

495
00:45:51.639 --> 00:45:55.920
information through all of their sacraments of
initiation. Yeah, but that's the point

496
00:45:55.920 --> 00:46:01.880
of the papacy is that it gives
you that are not defective. So why

497
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:07.960
are you now having to question the
majority of the world's liturgical celebration is perhaps

498
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:14.280
potentially defective. So you understand the
absurdity of this whole thing. The papacy

499
00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:17.000
was going to be the guardian,
the preserver, and the guide of tradition,

500
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:24.360
and now all these people are having
to scour the world and find outlets

501
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:35.039
that are not the normal Novas sort
of liturgy. So the very thing that

502
00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:40.840
they say we should become Roman Catholics
over as orthodox is the very thing that

503
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:52.880
failed them. And then they chied
us for being prideful into matermonitey. So

504
00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:55.519
notice he's been in the Roman Catholic
world for what three or four years now,

505
00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:00.960
and he's already smarter than the pope. But it was all about humility.

506
00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:05.159
But now he knows the rights better
than the poop. But it's all

507
00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:09.519
about humility, because that would be
the final sort of initiation into adult It

508
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:15.320
would be this pinet facrament. And
I want them to have literard or stadivity.

509
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:21.719
I want them to have absolute rock
certainty soud the ground. Ah see,

510
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:29.199
this is the thing. I want, absolute rock certainty. And that's

511
00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:32.119
what he thought he would get with
Francis and the papacy. But did you

512
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:36.440
get that, Tim now that you're
what two three four years into Rome,

513
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:39.320
did you? I thought you were
going to get this with the papacy,

514
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:46.880
and now you're a trad cat and
now you're having to save the liturgy from

515
00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:59.760
the Roman sea, banning the true
liturgy, this Emao musicucing them in apopties.

516
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:24.679
Okay, you and elite right or
again okay, So it ends with

517
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:34.920
just suffer and bear it, barrier
cross uh. And one day the future

518
00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:40.360
trad Pope, even though Francis has
stacked the deck with absolute loans, one

519
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:47.679
day the Holy Fatima Mother will descend
and announce and will anoint the trade pope

520
00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:57.760
for us, and then we will
get our Latin Mass back because they actually

521
00:48:57.800 --> 00:49:04.480
worshiped the rights. So it's just
also ridiculous. I mean, I remember

522
00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:07.280
one of the trads a long time
ago saying that if you, if you

523
00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:15.039
pay attention, you'll notice that for
most of the trad world, they actually

524
00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:19.639
worship the Mass like they think that
they like. They don't care if the

525
00:49:19.719 --> 00:49:25.199
pope does like every action of apostasy, if he states every heresy, if

526
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:29.519
he only promoted the Latin Mass,
they would just they would they would be

527
00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:34.280
cool, which is just bizarre because
it's like, I mean, the liturgy

528
00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:37.800
of the worship is a central part
of the faith, but it's not the

529
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:45.079
faith any more than any one element
is the whole thing or the totality.

530
00:49:45.159 --> 00:49:49.400
It's very bizarre and a weird sort
of just I guess it's a kind of

531
00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:52.639
an idolatry. I guess, Like
I don't know, but I guess the

532
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:55.119
nature of that system works that way, right, because you can be an

533
00:49:55.159 --> 00:50:00.480
actual Satanist, you can be consecrated
a priest that day forever the rest of

534
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:04.360
your life. As a Satanist,
you're still a priest consecrating the Eucharist to

535
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:07.760
blasting. I mean, that's their
system. All right. Let's move on

536
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:10.960
to Ruslan. And this was actually, I think the video that I wanted

537
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:15.239
to do yesterday or a couple of
days ago, and I picked the wrong

538
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:19.880
video, But this is the one
I was looking for. So we're gonna

539
00:50:19.880 --> 00:50:23.480
shift over to the prop bros the
Protestants here, and I want to hear

540
00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:30.719
his reasons why he's not going to
be Orthodox or quote Catholic. So let's

541
00:50:30.719 --> 00:50:35.159
hear what Ruslan has for us that
we've seen. The last two videos have

542
00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:44.360
been full of gems, really sophisticated, high tier argumentation from him and Gavin

543
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:51.880
or Landia. But something tells me
it's not going to be as high tier

544
00:50:52.679 --> 00:50:54.920
as the others were. I'm just
joking. The others weren't high tier.

545
00:50:55.280 --> 00:51:01.239
Hey, I am not Orthodox Catholic
Oriental Orthodox, a part of the Armenian

546
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:07.719
Apostolic Church that I grew up in. I attended the World Symbolic World Summit

547
00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:13.119
with put on by my buddy Johnathan
Pego. By the way, people were

548
00:51:13.119 --> 00:51:15.519
telling me that he also was a
big promoter of the stabby and BLM.

549
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:20.280
I don't know if that's true,
but that would not surprise me. A

550
00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:27.880
lot of these more popular YouTube christiani
Ish sphere people they push all this stuff.

551
00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:31.199
You'll notice they always have the same
agendas. They'll push like women,

552
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:39.199
pastors, stabbys, BLM. I
mean, just total nonsense stuff, which

553
00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:45.199
I'm more and more starting to think
that a lot of these YouTube influencers,

554
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:49.320
the destiny types. I think the
system is promoting these people on purpose.

555
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:53.679
What do you guys think? I
just can't fathom. I mean, there's

556
00:51:53.719 --> 00:51:59.719
a lot of dumb people, a
lot of people with absolutely no discernment who

557
00:51:59.719 --> 00:52:06.440
can't tell anything at all. And
perhaps that explains the popularity of Valsh and

558
00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:08.239
Destiny and sneak Oh. I don't
know. I can't figure it out.

559
00:52:08.440 --> 00:52:13.480
People are just this this dumb.
Maybe that's a big part of it.

560
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:20.639
But is it also that there's promotion
of these idiots. Neil and had a

561
00:52:20.679 --> 00:52:22.920
great time hanging out with my Orthodox
friends. I'm actually going to be an

562
00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:27.239
at an event with some Catholic friends
pretty soon here. And sometimes I like

563
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:30.400
have these beautiful relationships come seas and
people and ask everyd be like, oh,

564
00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:34.639
he's about to he's about to convert, He's going to become He's gonnacome

565
00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:37.840
Orthodox, He's gonna become Catholic.
They think I'm Jordan Peterson out here.

566
00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:43.920
Everybody's tart to claim Jordan Peterson for
their own. I don't. I I

567
00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:46.000
am not playing. I mean,
can we guess, can we just finally

568
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:52.519
get past this point of like Jordan
Peterson's pseudo Orthodoxy. I mean, like

569
00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:55.280
at a certain point it's like,
Okay, look he's not Orthodox. Uh,

570
00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:59.760
and yeah, I hope that he
does convert, But to keep sort

571
00:52:59.800 --> 00:53:05.079
of tending and acting like he's kind
of sort of a little Orthodox, I

572
00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:10.639
mean, all kinds of people go
to Mount Athos. Okay, so what

573
00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:17.559
And it's also you know, it's
another thing that's weird about the Orthodox world

574
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:23.519
is that, you know, we've
been here for years helping thousands of people

575
00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:30.599
to convert, and you know,
you'll get people who will latch onto Jordan

576
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:36.960
Peterson who isn't Orthodox, and they
will give him more time and attention,

577
00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:44.639
more positive promotion, thumbs up,
talk to them all day long. But

578
00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:50.239
then we are treated like we are
second class citizens, treated like we're just

579
00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:52.719
these just the worst people on the
planet. And for what. Oh he's

580
00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:57.880
controversial. He talks about, quote
conspiracy. So the typical thing is I

581
00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:00.719
do debates and I quote talk about
conspiracy. Now, what specifically are the

582
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:05.679
things I talk about that are false? Oh it's not even that, It's

583
00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:10.599
just you're mean and you talk about
real things even though we don't want to

584
00:54:10.599 --> 00:54:15.639
admit that they're real. Okay,
So, but didn't the Daily Wire people

585
00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:21.199
all push stabbys. Didn't Jordan Peterson
push stabby's? And what does he push?

586
00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:29.440
Classical liberalism? I've critiqued him for
seven years for pushing classical liberalism.

587
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:32.320
But you see, that's what you
can push and talk about and those people

588
00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:37.719
don't actually want any pushback on those
issues. And so because I've always in

589
00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:45.719
a friendly way critiqued and given pushback, and their response was to ignore on

590
00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:47.519
the download, say bad things about
me, say I talk about how evil

591
00:54:47.559 --> 00:54:50.760
I am, how bad I am, all this stuff, all this nonsense,

592
00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:53.199
And I mean, at a certain
point, it's just like, you

593
00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:58.360
know, I'm tired of being nice
to all these people when they portray themselves

594
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:01.800
publicly as nice and in the background, these people are a lot of snakes

595
00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:06.800
about rouse Line and I don't know
Jordan Peterson, but I'm just talking about

596
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:09.079
a lot of people in these circles. This is how they operate, and

597
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:13.639
they portray themselves as these really pious
people. There's really nice people, but

598
00:55:13.679 --> 00:55:15.440
eventually it comes out that they're not
that way, as we saw with Lofton.

599
00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:21.960
Right, we said this about Lofton
years ago, people got so mad

600
00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:25.599
at me for so long. Now
pretty much a large portion of the online

601
00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:29.920
sperience figured out, hey, maybe
actually Jay was right. Lofton's not actually

602
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:34.719
as great as he said. And
look, I still have all the same

603
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:37.440
critiques that I have with Jordan Peterson. So I'm glad that he went to

604
00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:43.719
Mount Athos or whatever. But Jordan
Peterson is an Orthodox, and you know,

605
00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:47.400
you've got a lot of people in
the Orthodox world who act like he

606
00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:54.360
is, and they'll promote the living
daylights out of what he talks about,

607
00:55:55.199 --> 00:56:00.119
and then they turn around and they
absolutely hate undermine everything that I do.

608
00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:02.760
So this is what you deal with, I guess in media. I'm used

609
00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:07.239
to it, but that's what really
goes on. So you're if you're wondering,

610
00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:08.559
like, well, how come you
don't do talk to these people?

611
00:56:09.079 --> 00:56:14.800
Those people don't want to talk to
me. But for what all I've done

612
00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:23.920
is critique classical liberalism to do either
anything above. And that's because I know

613
00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:28.639
of church history. I've studied church
history for a while. I love church

614
00:56:28.719 --> 00:56:31.639
history. This video that we're going
to look at together. In my opinion,

615
00:56:32.159 --> 00:56:36.039
the other thing too, is that
you know, from where I come

616
00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:42.679
from, it's always been the norm. It's it's the masculine thing to do,

617
00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:49.960
to hash out your issues, to
have a debate. But the sad

618
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:52.599
part of the Orthodox world is that
many of those people they're not even man

619
00:56:52.719 --> 00:56:57.719
enough to do that. They will
act like women, they will act effeminine,

620
00:56:57.719 --> 00:57:00.840
they'll be passive, aggressive. They'll
talk about you behind your back all

621
00:57:00.920 --> 00:57:05.199
day long, they'll make snide videos
about you or whatever, but they won't

622
00:57:05.239 --> 00:57:08.519
actually engage you because they're actually just
whissies. So that's a lot of what

623
00:57:08.599 --> 00:57:14.079
we deal with too, And I
just don't get it, Like I don't

624
00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:17.800
I'm used to. You know,
if guys disagree, like then you have

625
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:22.320
it, you hash it out,
you have a debate, and a debate

626
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:28.880
is like it's like the guy way
of guys settling fights on the playground.

627
00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:31.920
If you have a fight with your
best friend on the playground, you fight

628
00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:37.920
it out and then your friends again. And to me, that's like the

629
00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:43.440
norm. But what you learn is
that in media it doesn't work that way.

630
00:57:43.480 --> 00:57:50.239
People in media operate like totally passive
aggressive creeps, and it's all about

631
00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:53.679
the presentation and the optics. It's
all about, well, I'm just gonna

632
00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:58.239
present everyone that I'm a really pious
man, and I hope that you all

633
00:57:58.519 --> 00:58:01.760
will worship along with me. I
hope that you will publicly pray and present

634
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:06.920
your prayers on Twitter. And to
me, this is just like super transparent

635
00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:10.519
fake. It's just all it's performative. It's not it's not authentic. So

636
00:58:10.760 --> 00:58:19.000
anyway summarizes the exact reasons why I
am not Oriental Orthodox, just it's you

637
00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:22.519
get all you get tired of playing
very you know, nice with people who

638
00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:25.480
are not actually nice, and a
lot of you fall for these people.

639
00:58:25.599 --> 00:58:28.840
It's just weird, like a lot
of you audience, people like you fall

640
00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:35.440
for these people thinking that everything's as
it appears right, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox,

641
00:58:35.679 --> 00:58:37.239
Sylian Church of the East, any
of the other streams. Why I'm

642
00:58:37.239 --> 00:58:40.639
Protestant, Why I'm happy to be
a Protestant, Why I will remain a

643
00:58:40.719 --> 00:58:44.840
Protestant. So sorry to bursting of
your guys as bubbles, but I think

644
00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:47.280
these are important things that most people
don't know. They don't know about these

645
00:58:47.320 --> 00:58:52.599
things regarding to Protestantism, and they
have strong MANSI protestantsms, and they don't

646
00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:58.360
know of the historical positions outside of
Protestants. So let's get into this.

647
00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:00.119
This is from one of my but
this is one of my favorite creators.

648
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:04.000
We're working on having him on the
channel. This is on the channel Truth

649
00:59:04.119 --> 00:59:06.639
Units. This is Gavin. I
talked to him frequently. We actually had

650
00:59:06.639 --> 00:59:10.320
a whole offline conversation between me Hi
and you and Jonathan Pagot He responded to

651
00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:15.440
my conversation from John's The Truth Unite
subscribe to. So it's interesting, like,

652
00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:21.199
how come everybody's only interacting with people
who are not into apologetics? Right,

653
00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:24.079
I'm not criticizing Pajoe. I don't
have any disagreement with his approach.

654
00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:30.920
He takes some more of an aesthetic
approach. But why why wouldn't Ruslain want

655
00:59:30.920 --> 00:59:36.159
to interact with I mean, Gavin
Ortland does apologetics and by the way,

656
00:59:36.159 --> 00:59:39.360
doesn't Gavin Ortland support didn't he support
stabbys and open borders? I saw some

657
00:59:39.559 --> 00:59:45.239
tweet for him saying that we should
have totally open borders. Like what,

658
00:59:46.960 --> 00:59:54.039
So everybody in this whole sphere is
just like out to lunch to Gavin awesome,

659
00:59:54.079 --> 00:59:58.119
awesome, awesome, awesome channel,
And so this is not as a

660
00:59:58.239 --> 01:00:05.719
means to dunk on or attack folks. So does this guy only repeat what

661
01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:08.679
Gavin Ortland does? I don't get
it, Like there's no other thing he's

662
01:00:08.719 --> 01:00:13.239
got other than to just cite Gavin
Ortland stuff. Anyway, So let's get

663
01:00:13.239 --> 01:00:15.840
into come on, let's get into
it. That's a reformation in the Western

664
01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:22.000
Church. So wait a minute.
This video begins at fifteen hundred, really

665
01:00:22.519 --> 01:00:25.960
or championship. Okayism is a branch
of Christianity. The traces of Georgie is

666
01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:31.199
back at the sixteenth century Reformation.
Okay, so I mean right there,

667
01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:37.920
within like five seconds of the actual
video. Protestantism is a branch of Christianity

668
01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:44.800
trac againstself back to fifteen seventeen.
So what was the Christianity prior to fifteen

669
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:52.639
seventeen. Well, it was corrupt, defective, not authentic, right,

670
01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:57.079
so we had to discover the Gospel
in fifteen hundred. I mean, this

671
01:00:57.199 --> 01:01:00.199
is silly. The Western Church.
There are different Protestant traditions, so they

672
01:01:00.239 --> 01:01:05.800
share foundational commitments like the Solas,
two sacraments, the priesthood of all believers.

673
01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:12.679
No, wait a minute, this
is not actually true. There are

674
01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:16.920
Protestant churches that do not agree with
these things. For example, there are

675
01:01:17.079 --> 01:01:23.440
High Church Anglicans considered Protestants, which
do not agree with this these three bubbles

676
01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:30.920
here, Okay, there are High
Church Lutherans that don't just believe in priesthood

677
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:37.280
of all believers, but also believe
in the sacrament of confession. Did you

678
01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:40.239
know that there are Lutherans they believe
in that, And there are even some

679
01:01:40.440 --> 01:01:50.400
Lutherans that the Roman Church thinks might
have maintained their apostolic succession. It's like

680
01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:55.360
a small branch of Lutherans in like
Norwegian Lutherans or something. I mean.

681
01:01:55.440 --> 01:02:00.639
But the point is that every time
the Protestants try to make this case for

682
01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:07.159
an LCD Protestantism lowest case denominator Protestant, this doesn't actually exist. And by

683
01:02:07.159 --> 01:02:10.400
the way, it's deceptive. It's
a kind of a word concept fallacy to

684
01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:20.559
say that there is a Roman that
there's a Protestant commonality on the five solos,

685
01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:24.360
because if you get to a dispute
between an Armenian and a Calvinist,

686
01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:29.360
they're not going to believe in the
same thing on sola fide. In fact,

687
01:02:29.400 --> 01:02:32.880
there's some Protestants that will interpret sola
fide to mean that to be saved

688
01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:39.000
you actually have to believe the doctrine
of solo fide, you see, whereas

689
01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:45.559
many Protestants, these acumenist minded Protestants
here, they don't believe that. So

690
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:50.719
you see how deceptive this is to
pretend like, well, all Protestants quote

691
01:02:50.800 --> 01:02:57.559
unquote agree on these things. That
does That's not the case, and in

692
01:02:57.599 --> 01:03:02.719
fact, they always blow over past
the fact that the first and second generations

693
01:03:02.719 --> 01:03:13.000
of Protestants killed each other over these
bubbles. Luther had Anabaptist killed, Luther

694
01:03:13.079 --> 01:03:19.119
hated Zwingley, Calvin had Cervidas killed. And by the way, did you

695
01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:24.559
notice that this bizarre bubble, these
three bizarre bubbles here, it doesn't have

696
01:03:24.599 --> 01:03:30.440
trinity and Christology because, as we
pointed out in the other Ruslam video,

697
01:03:30.679 --> 01:03:36.559
Protestants can't tell you if you can
be a pollinarian or not, because most

698
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:39.880
Protestants want to believe that William Lane
Craig is a great defender of the Christian

699
01:03:39.920 --> 01:03:45.760
faith. But William Lane Craig is
openly a pollinarian, which is condemned in

700
01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:51.079
the ecumenical councils. So to be
a Christian in the traditional historic sense means

701
01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:58.119
the concilier definitions, the Niceno Constantapolitan
creed. So you notice that there's this

702
01:03:58.239 --> 01:04:02.920
appearance of a monality amongst Protestants,
which is a historical which is not actually

703
01:04:02.960 --> 01:04:10.880
the case, but based on a
vague sense of things like the Solas and

704
01:04:10.920 --> 01:04:23.840
many of the doctors. My punishment
is to see this ad forever three reasons,

705
01:04:23.840 --> 01:04:27.119
about five minutes for whit it makes
sense to be a Protestant Christian number

706
01:04:27.159 --> 01:04:30.880
one Protestant is more Catholic. The
word Catholic just to the entirety of the

707
01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:34.920
church, the major enough. Uh
not actually in the patristic definition that that's

708
01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:42.039
more of a Latin Roman Catholic idea, that Catholic or Catholicity means totality in

709
01:04:42.079 --> 01:04:45.239
the sense of like numbers. Okay, And so this is a really stupid

710
01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:49.800
argument that, well, if I'm
an Acumenoust Protestant, then I actually believe

711
01:04:49.880 --> 01:04:57.239
that it's the biggest number because I
include Protestants, Orthodox and uh Roman Catholics

712
01:04:57.280 --> 01:05:01.960
as part of the Catholic Church.
Okay, But when the Creed says one

713
01:05:02.000 --> 01:05:08.800
Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, that's
not what Galvin Ortland means. Okay.

714
01:05:08.840 --> 01:05:15.960
The Cappadocians compose the creed, they
mean the visible Orthodox Catholic Church. That's

715
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:21.360
the Cappadocian Creed at constantin Apologic night
Suno Constantpolitan Creed at constant at number one

716
01:05:21.400 --> 01:05:26.280
at three eighty one. That's where
the creed says one Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.

717
01:05:26.920 --> 01:05:33.760
And the sense that they mean is
those who have Apostolic succession it was

718
01:05:33.800 --> 01:05:45.760
presided over by Saint Melidios of Antioch. That's the Catholic Church and not just

719
01:05:45.880 --> 01:05:53.119
having a succession but also the correct
faith, because some groups had the succession

720
01:05:53.199 --> 01:06:03.519
and lost the faith. So this
is a deceptive move to say and to

721
01:06:03.679 --> 01:06:09.079
resent it as I actually have a
more Catholic position. Well, this doesn't

722
01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:14.280
even work as a good argument that
this assumes that you're understanding the word right.

723
01:06:14.360 --> 01:06:16.920
It's like what Mormons do. Mormons
say I believe in Jesus and the

724
01:06:16.920 --> 01:06:19.679
Father, that's in the Holy Spirit, and they mean totally different things.

725
01:06:20.239 --> 01:06:27.119
So you notice heresies, As I
think Saint Basil said, they're almost always

726
01:06:27.159 --> 01:06:30.880
trading on some word, concept,
fallacy, or some ambiguity. And every

727
01:06:30.920 --> 01:06:36.960
heretic will say he believes the terms
of the Orthodox, he just redefines them

728
01:06:39.079 --> 01:06:47.000
to suit him. And by the
way, Catholic does not mean just universal

729
01:06:47.960 --> 01:06:51.159
in the patristic sense, it means
the fullness of truth. In fact,

730
01:06:51.159 --> 01:06:56.480
Saint Maximus makes this point when he
says, even if the number of true

731
01:06:56.480 --> 01:07:00.239
Catholics is reduced to a handful,
I will still be amongst those. So

732
01:07:00.280 --> 01:07:05.679
you see in Maximus's definition it refers
to the fullness of truth, and not

733
01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:11.599
so much to the fullness in terms
of numbers, because in the Aryan Crisis,

734
01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:17.039
most of the bishops were semi arian
and only at one point a handful

735
01:07:17.519 --> 01:07:26.320
Athanacious amongst them maintained the Catholic faith. So Catholicity cannot be equated to or

736
01:07:26.360 --> 01:07:33.719
reduced to numbers. Many times in
church history it is true that Catholicity can

737
01:07:33.800 --> 01:07:40.400
refer to numbers, it can't be
exclusively referring to numbers because there been times

738
01:07:40.719 --> 01:07:46.119
when the Orthodox were very small in
number. So this again is completely deceptive

739
01:07:46.199 --> 01:07:49.039
use of the term Catholic. It's
not the meaning of the word in the

740
01:07:49.079 --> 01:07:55.639
Creed. Did you guys know that
the word Catholic means the entirety of the

741
01:07:55.679 --> 01:07:59.239
church. Catholic means universal church,
the global church. We don't use that

742
01:07:59.320 --> 01:08:02.880
terminology today because Catholic today, in
our context we think of Roman Catholic Church.

743
01:08:03.880 --> 01:08:08.800
Eastern Orthodox Church calls himself as a
Catholic Church and so Catholic and he's

744
01:08:08.800 --> 01:08:14.079
the entirety of the church. And
punchline, Protestantism is actually more Catholic than

745
01:08:14.119 --> 01:08:17.680
the Roman Catholic Church. Total nonsense, total non sequitor, same move,

746
01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:25.840
every heretical version of this does is
to redefine the words to fit the system

747
01:08:25.880 --> 01:08:28.840
that you want it to be.
In the major non profits. It's just

748
01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:31.640
like when a Protestant goes into the
church Fathers and they see a church father

749
01:08:31.760 --> 01:08:35.680
mentioned that we're saved by grace.
Boom, there you go. Solo fide,

750
01:08:36.479 --> 01:08:43.199
nothing to do with the juridical penal
substitutionary view of solofide and Jesus being

751
01:08:43.279 --> 01:08:46.600
the damned substitute and I get his
imputed righteousness, nothing to do with that,

752
01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:50.439
but they read it into it.
You see, Ristians like Roman Colism,

753
01:08:50.600 --> 01:08:55.720
Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, the
Assyrian Church of the East all played

754
01:08:55.760 --> 01:08:59.239
to be the one true church throughout
the media to pretty much all the Roman

755
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:02.079
Catholics saint the non Catholics are damned. Pretty much all the Eastern Orthodox think

756
01:09:02.119 --> 01:09:08.760
that the non Orthodox are damned.
Here's the issue. Now, this is

757
01:09:08.800 --> 01:09:16.199
an argument that we hear all the
time, and it's a fallacy. I

758
01:09:16.199 --> 01:09:18.640
mean, I don't know. Again, I don't understand why people can see

759
01:09:18.640 --> 01:09:27.159
that this is a fallacy. Well, everybody disagrees the fact that one group

760
01:09:27.199 --> 01:09:30.760
condemns another group and another group condemns
those two groups. Has absolutely nothing to

761
01:09:30.800 --> 01:09:35.560
do with which one's true false.
Can people not figure this out? So

762
01:09:35.640 --> 01:09:42.520
this whole Gavin video obscures the issue
and is again here relying on a fallacy.

763
01:09:43.640 --> 01:09:46.119
I mean, it would be like
saying a lot of people disagree on

764
01:09:46.159 --> 01:09:51.159
a topic, therefore no one can
know what's true on the topic, so

765
01:09:51.239 --> 01:09:55.560
let's just say it's all true.
Do you see how silly this move is.

766
01:09:56.239 --> 01:10:00.000
So because there's rival claims, therefore
all claims must be true, and

767
01:10:00.039 --> 01:10:03.279
that's the Protestant position. But by
the way, that's not the historic Protestant

768
01:10:03.279 --> 01:10:13.960
position. There's not one historic Protestant
position. And the Protestant Reformers were not

769
01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:18.119
consistent amongst themselves because sometimes, for
example, Luther speaks as if there were

770
01:10:18.199 --> 01:10:23.199
great saints in the Roman Church,
and other times he gets really vitriolic and

771
01:10:23.199 --> 01:10:28.720
speaks as if they're all damned heretics. And the Puritans did not think that

772
01:10:28.840 --> 01:10:31.840
Roman Catholics could be saved to the
Puritans. If you read in the Puritan

773
01:10:31.880 --> 01:10:39.239
writings, they believe that Rome teaches
a false gospel. So this idea that

774
01:10:39.319 --> 01:10:44.399
there's this historic Protestant position of a
super acumenist branch theory is not true.

775
01:10:44.720 --> 01:10:50.640
Branch theory is an Anglican theory which
becomes the basis for ecumenism, and the

776
01:10:50.720 --> 01:10:59.039
Orthodox view is not branch theory.
There is no branch theory in the Church

777
01:10:59.079 --> 01:11:05.000
Fathers. Then you get Anglicans posing
branch theory. It's a Protestant idea.

778
01:11:05.079 --> 01:11:09.199
It's a Protestant view of the church, and you can tell it's ecumenus.

779
01:11:09.640 --> 01:11:14.079
That's what Ruslan and Gavin or Land
are saying, is well, our position's

780
01:11:14.119 --> 01:11:18.079
better because I'll just say we're all
Christian. Well, that just assumes that

781
01:11:18.359 --> 01:11:23.039
all of these competing sects are actually
a Christian. And you've noticed that the

782
01:11:23.079 --> 01:11:27.640
whole video is premised on there not
being a clear definition of what a Christian

783
01:11:27.680 --> 01:11:31.359
is and isn't. It doesn't even
include a reference to the Nicene Creed.

784
01:11:31.399 --> 01:11:36.239
Every Christian in the first thousand years
would know that Christianity is first and foremost

785
01:11:36.279 --> 01:11:43.520
delineated by the Creed. Gavin didn't
even mention it. He started his ridiculous

786
01:11:43.600 --> 01:11:49.359
video with fifteen seventeen. We can
pull up quotes from creeds of all the

787
01:11:49.439 --> 01:11:56.680
other churches. The issue now is
that people have softened on this by Eastern

788
01:11:56.760 --> 01:12:00.000
Orthodox Frindstick. I'm saying when count
the friendstic, I'm saying the the wrong

789
01:12:00.560 --> 01:12:04.319
Well, I mean, if your
Eastworthodox friends are saying that you're saved,

790
01:12:04.760 --> 01:12:09.439
then that conflicts with the same east
Worthodox people who often say that we can

791
01:12:09.479 --> 01:12:12.039
know where the church is, but
we don't know where the church isn't.

792
01:12:13.880 --> 01:12:15.760
So if we don't know where the
church isn't, then we're not in a

793
01:12:15.760 --> 01:12:19.960
position to say, russelin, you're
saved. Do you see how that's a

794
01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:28.560
contradiction. If I don't know where
the church isn't, I can't then make

795
01:12:28.600 --> 01:12:32.720
the proposition that but you are the
church outside the church. It doesn't follow

796
01:12:34.880 --> 01:12:39.239
they soften on it is the church
has soften on us, But historically their

797
01:12:39.319 --> 01:12:44.560
doctrine has been that the other streams
of the church are damned right. If

798
01:12:44.600 --> 01:12:47.880
you believe and persist in the errors
and the heresies, you're outside the church.

799
01:12:47.960 --> 01:12:51.039
That is a heretic and we have
not softened on that. So and

800
01:12:51.119 --> 01:12:57.800
maybe that's why we're not popular,
because we don't make up nonsense and pretend

801
01:12:57.960 --> 01:13:00.920
like all the churches are part of
the church, because that's branch theory and

802
01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:05.239
that's not orthodox. You're not truly
said unless you'd not truly say it unless

803
01:13:05.239 --> 01:13:11.319
you're Katetholic. That has shifted recently, that a lot recently, but not

804
01:13:11.399 --> 01:13:15.399
to anybody I know. Let's let
let's let up Gavin kirk it. So

805
01:13:15.520 --> 01:13:21.039
he just admitted that ecumenism is a
Protestant perspective and position exactly. But we're

806
01:13:21.039 --> 01:13:27.159
not a cumenist and ecumenism is a
heresy to the highest levels of magisterial teaching.

807
01:13:27.520 --> 01:13:31.000
By contrast, Protestantism doesn't restrict the
church to one institution. In the

808
01:13:31.079 --> 01:13:35.000
nineteenth century, the historian Philip Schaff
argued for a vision of Protestantism as an

809
01:13:35.079 --> 01:13:42.399
organic renewal effort within the wintry church. Okay, so branch theory, right,

810
01:13:42.399 --> 01:13:45.560
because Philip Shaff is talking about branch
theory. So the argument here is

811
01:13:45.600 --> 01:13:50.359
that why would I convert to Orthodox
or Catholic when the Ruman Catholics and the

812
01:13:50.479 --> 01:13:55.000
Orthodox Ecumenist friends that I have tell
me that I'm saved anyway. That's a

813
01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:59.159
great point, but maybe they're not
telling you the truth. Because if they're

814
01:13:59.159 --> 01:14:02.199
telling you the truth and they're telling
you that there's one arc, there's one

815
01:14:02.279 --> 01:14:08.399
body, it's not my place to
individually judge you, but it is my

816
01:14:08.439 --> 01:14:13.119
place to tell you to join the
church. And the councils don't treat all

817
01:14:13.119 --> 01:14:17.239
of the groups as if we're all
on a level playing field. I mean,

818
01:14:17.560 --> 01:14:21.640
have people not noticed that the ecumenical
councils don't operate the way that branch

819
01:14:21.680 --> 01:14:26.720
theory operates. If they did,
why is branch theory a late theory?

820
01:14:26.920 --> 01:14:32.239
Where's branch theory? Prior to the
Anglican proponents of branch theory principle of them?

821
01:14:32.439 --> 01:14:38.119
I mean one Holy Catholic Capitsolic Church
in the Cappadocian definition, except that

822
01:14:38.159 --> 01:14:45.359
at constantin noble one is not branch
theory, and it's dishonest for people to

823
01:14:45.359 --> 01:14:49.000
pretend it is. And Rouselan even
recognized that, prior to the modern ecumenist

824
01:14:49.039 --> 01:14:57.079
movement, the different bodies of the
churches continued to say that the other groups

825
01:14:57.079 --> 01:15:01.279
are heterodox. And if you're going
to read the Triumph of Orthodoxy, which

826
01:15:01.279 --> 01:15:09.640
condemns iconoclasm, you still are affirming
that position. Iconoclasm is heterodox. Most

827
01:15:09.680 --> 01:15:16.720
Protestants are iconoclasts, so Protestantism is
heterodox. And Rouslan needs to hear that.

828
01:15:16.880 --> 01:15:20.319
Not because I hate Rouslan, I
joke around, but I'm not joking

829
01:15:20.359 --> 01:15:25.960
around in a real spirit of meanness. I'm just joking around about the defects

830
01:15:25.960 --> 01:15:30.880
in his videos. The meanest thing
I said was like that he doesn't know

831
01:15:30.920 --> 01:15:34.159
what he's talking about, which is
a fact, and that they eat cabbage

832
01:15:34.159 --> 01:15:40.000
stew from wherever he's from. That
was a joke. Okay, Oh feelings

833
01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:43.039
are Oh you hurt? They're so
mean, I'm so hateful. No,

834
01:15:43.119 --> 01:15:46.960
it's just a dumb joke, dude. We joke around all the time movement

835
01:15:47.239 --> 01:15:50.760
of progress in the history of the
Church, and spoke of Itstholic Union at

836
01:15:50.760 --> 01:15:56.840
the past, insisting that the Protestant
traditions have fundamental points of continuity with traditions

837
01:15:56.960 --> 01:16:00.000
outside Constant. People are often surprised
to discover at this how the Reformers thought.

838
01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:03.800
Luther said in the Papacy there is
trigger Christianity, even the right kind

839
01:16:03.840 --> 01:16:08.880
of Christianity, and in many great
Yeah, that was the quote I was

840
01:16:08.920 --> 01:16:14.199
referring to, But he also says
things contradictory to that later on. I've

841
01:16:14.199 --> 01:16:17.279
read five of Luther's books and commentaries, and Luther is a contradictory figure.

842
01:16:18.119 --> 01:16:20.920
And if you don't know that,
it's because you haven't read enough Martin Luther.

843
01:16:23.039 --> 01:16:26.119
So, for example, at times
he says that there's grace in Moses,

844
01:16:27.439 --> 01:16:30.720
grace in the in the writings of
Moses, and other times Moses says

845
01:16:30.279 --> 01:16:33.680
Luther says, I want to punch
Moses' teeth out because he doesn't teach gospel,

846
01:16:33.880 --> 01:16:40.840
he teaches law. So Luther is
a contradictory, ridiculous figure, voted

847
01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:44.319
saints. The Christian is now under
the papacy, is truly the body of

848
01:16:44.399 --> 01:16:51.840
Christ and a member of it.
That's crazy. Luther, who led the

849
01:16:51.880 --> 01:16:56.720
Protestant Reformation, is saying, I
still think that God is in the kind

850
01:16:56.720 --> 01:17:00.640
of church. WHOA, that's crazy? This is uh yeah. But Luther

851
01:17:00.680 --> 01:17:03.960
says other things at other times.
So all this stuff is solow tier,

852
01:17:04.199 --> 01:17:10.720
like all the quote mining stuff that
Ortland and russeln are relying on here,

853
01:17:10.760 --> 01:17:14.600
just like one sentence quotes from thousands
of pages of these people who, by

854
01:17:14.600 --> 01:17:17.119
the way, again contradict themselves over
many decades of writing. Another quote from

855
01:17:17.159 --> 01:17:20.600
John Calvin. But why, by
the way, why are we supposed to

856
01:17:20.640 --> 01:17:24.720
care about Luther or Calvin? Maybe
the Puritans are right, because the Puritans

857
01:17:24.760 --> 01:17:33.199
are all explicitly, they're very explicit
that Roman Catholics are not saved. So

858
01:17:34.039 --> 01:17:38.960
but maybe the Puritans are the real
Protestantism, you say, You see how

859
01:17:39.000 --> 01:17:44.439
silly this is? Why am I
supposed to follow Lutheran Calvin and not John,

860
01:17:44.760 --> 01:17:50.000
not John Knox or a John Owen, the famous Puritan deny the papist

861
01:17:50.119 --> 01:17:55.319
the title of the church. We
do not, for this reason impunch the

862
01:17:55.359 --> 01:18:00.640
existence of churches among them. So
both John Calvin and Martin Luther said that

863
01:18:00.760 --> 01:18:03.520
the Catholic Church the Roman Catholic Church. Soon. Yeah, but why would

864
01:18:03.520 --> 01:18:10.720
I not accept a Puritan argument that
Luther and Calvin were too close to Roman

865
01:18:10.800 --> 01:18:17.279
apostasy and had not purged themselves properly. They were not pure like Puritans were

866
01:18:17.319 --> 01:18:21.279
pure. You see. Their logic
is that, hey, Luther and Calvin

867
01:18:21.279 --> 01:18:27.760
did some good things, they didn't
go far enough an Anabaptist reason. Likewise,

868
01:18:28.279 --> 01:18:30.840
Puritans Calvin Luther might have done some
good things, they didn't go far

869
01:18:30.920 --> 01:18:34.800
enough. So Anabaptism is the real
true Christian faith. You see how silly

870
01:18:34.880 --> 01:18:40.920
this is? Has churches, godly
churches within and even though we deny them

871
01:18:40.920 --> 01:18:45.800
in a superiority as the moment only
chur Church's interesting, isn't it when we

872
01:18:45.880 --> 01:18:48.680
categorically denied to the papists the title
of the church. We do not for

873
01:18:48.760 --> 01:18:53.640
this reason, imped in the existence
of the churches among of explicity. For

874
01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:57.520
example, Calvin said, they make
the Greek schismatics with what right? Because

875
01:18:57.520 --> 01:19:00.840
of their throwing from the Apostolic seed, they lost their privilege? Why would

876
01:19:00.920 --> 01:19:03.640
not they fall away from Christ?
Deserve to lose it much more? Now

877
01:19:03.640 --> 01:19:10.199
wait a minute, so he's using
Calvin there critiquing the Roman Church from saying

878
01:19:10.239 --> 01:19:14.800
that the Orthodox are schismatics, and
then Calvin is saying that Rome fell away

879
01:19:14.800 --> 01:19:18.079
from Christ. Well, if Rome
fell away from Christ, then how are

880
01:19:18.119 --> 01:19:23.279
there still true churches amongst Rome?
For those statements with the pre modern ways

881
01:19:23.279 --> 01:19:27.279
of thinking in the non Protestant traditions, and you get two fundamentally different ways

882
01:19:27.279 --> 01:19:30.960
of construing Catholicity. Yeah, so
let's just point this out. Where in

883
01:19:31.000 --> 01:19:34.680
the New Testament and where in the
first thousand years with Christianity is there the

884
01:19:34.680 --> 01:19:43.359
branch theory? Because this whole video
from Galvin is relying on the assumption of

885
01:19:43.520 --> 01:19:47.479
branch theory. And by the way, just because Lutheran Calvin at one point

886
01:19:47.560 --> 01:19:51.680
said this, why should we follow
the Lutheran Calvin. Maybe the Puritans were

887
01:19:51.760 --> 01:19:57.920
right and Lutheran Calvin didn't reform enough. If you were opposed to shrinking the

888
01:19:58.000 --> 01:20:02.640
Church down to one institution, you
should probably This isn't just in Catholics not

889
01:20:02.760 --> 01:20:09.000
thinking Orthodox culture saying, and in
not boiling the Church down to an institution.

890
01:20:09.199 --> 01:20:13.279
The church then loses its normative authority, doesn't it, Because now there's

891
01:20:13.279 --> 01:20:16.920
no body that actually is authoritative.
It's all the bodies, all the sects

892
01:20:17.000 --> 01:20:23.600
that hold to quote, the basics. And what were Gavin's basics three bubbles

893
01:20:23.600 --> 01:20:29.479
of Protestant doctrines? What? Well, if Protestantism's basics are three bubbles of

894
01:20:29.520 --> 01:20:34.399
Protestant doctrine, then where was Christianity
prior to Protestantism. Well, it kind

895
01:20:34.439 --> 01:20:41.279
of existed amongst Rome and the Orthodox, okay, But now it's all the

896
01:20:41.319 --> 01:20:45.199
groups. So it's not actually the
body of the god Man. Do you

897
01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:49.760
understand that in Christology this would be
heterodox? How many bodies does Christ have?

898
01:20:50.680 --> 01:20:57.720
One? Is Christ's body visible or
invisible? Oh? It's visible because

899
01:20:57.720 --> 01:21:03.239
it's an actual human body. So
unless you want to undo the incarnation Christ's

900
01:21:03.520 --> 01:21:09.239
body, the Church is just as
one and just as visible as his physical

901
01:21:09.239 --> 01:21:15.640
body to posit an invisible church,
which is the entire basis of this video,

902
01:21:15.720 --> 01:21:20.680
and Protestant ecclesiology is to posit a
Nestorian ecclesiology, that is, to

903
01:21:20.680 --> 01:21:28.439
divorce Christ from his actual historical manifestation. Oh now it's an invisible body made

904
01:21:28.520 --> 01:21:31.560
up of a thousand different sects who
all fight with one another. And so

905
01:21:31.640 --> 01:21:35.960
now we have the gates of Help
prevailing against the church, which he said

906
01:21:35.960 --> 01:21:42.399
would not happen. How can the
church be overrun with error and totally fall

907
01:21:42.439 --> 01:21:46.880
away? And this is where the
Anabaptists come in and say exactly, and

908
01:21:46.960 --> 01:21:49.760
since the church, the Anabaptists are
more consistent than these people, is what

909
01:21:49.840 --> 01:21:56.520
I'm arguing. I mean, out
of Anabaptism is completely retorted, okay,

910
01:21:56.680 --> 01:22:01.520
But they're more consistent than these people
because they understand that if the church fell

911
01:22:01.560 --> 01:22:09.119
away after the death the Apostles from
the Solas, and if the Solas are

912
01:22:09.159 --> 01:22:17.680
the Gospel, then they didn't have
the gospel, did they? And so

913
01:22:17.760 --> 01:22:23.279
the church had to be restored.
Now we're getting over into beyond an a

914
01:22:23.319 --> 01:22:26.760
Baptist territory. We're getting in a
Mormon territory now, you see, So

915
01:22:26.920 --> 01:22:30.159
you see the logic of how this. I mean, it's not just branch

916
01:22:30.199 --> 01:22:32.279
theory. This moves over into cult
theory, and this is why many Protestant

917
01:22:32.279 --> 01:22:39.840
groups end up being cults. Absolutely
orthodox folks. I think this also unfortunately

918
01:22:39.920 --> 01:22:45.359
bleeds into certain fundamentalist Protestant camps,
meaning that there are certain fundamentalists Protestants,

919
01:22:45.520 --> 01:22:48.880
fun those Baptist independent Baptists who think
only their true only their little circle,

920
01:22:48.960 --> 01:22:55.880
was the true church. Yeah.
Now I understand the motivation for this critique,

921
01:22:56.960 --> 01:23:01.359
but to constantly harp on the annoyance
of people saying that their group is

922
01:23:01.399 --> 01:23:09.800
the one true church doesn't prove or
disprove their claims, so that you're annoyed

923
01:23:10.399 --> 01:23:15.520
and that your position is quote,
a broader tent has nothing to do with

924
01:23:15.600 --> 01:23:19.199
whether it's true false. So it's
almost like a sales pitch, like my

925
01:23:19.439 --> 01:23:25.640
position is superior because I have a
broader tent. Okay, but what if

926
01:23:25.680 --> 01:23:28.520
your position's wrong? What if it's
not right to have a broader tent?

927
01:23:28.600 --> 01:23:31.279
You said you understand, this whole
dumb argument just assumes that having a broader

928
01:23:31.359 --> 01:23:36.479
tent itself is the right position,
when that's the thing in question. I

929
01:23:36.560 --> 01:23:41.279
mean, why not have a broader
tent in the fourth century with the semi

930
01:23:41.359 --> 01:23:45.760
Arians. Then we won't even have
an Arian crisis. Let's just say we're

931
01:23:45.760 --> 01:23:46.960
all. Why didn't why didn't Athanasians
just say, oh, well, we're

932
01:23:47.000 --> 01:23:53.479
all we're all Christians, we all
believe in the basics. So what if

933
01:23:53.640 --> 01:23:58.439
some people think Jesus is homo woyusius? Why are you fighting over one letter

934
01:23:58.520 --> 01:24:02.199
in a Greek term? But this
isn't just exclusive, but it is in

935
01:24:02.479 --> 01:24:06.920
magisterial teaching of Catholics and Orthodox that
they believe they're their one true church and

936
01:24:06.960 --> 01:24:11.800
that everyone outside of that is a
matha an anthem. Do not like a

937
01:24:11.880 --> 01:24:18.399
mathemaise Now I used to fall victim
to outrageous insurance crisis. I believe I'm

938
01:24:18.439 --> 01:24:25.159
not anyone listening to any advice from
that boomer in any regard, especially not

939
01:24:25.319 --> 01:24:30.039
money. Doesn't agree to the same
creeds Nicia two, for examples, when

940
01:24:30.039 --> 01:24:33.319
he started venerating saints all that kind
of stuff, they're damned. Yeah,

941
01:24:33.399 --> 01:24:39.680
so he thinks that Nicia two is
where the church started venerating saints. So

942
01:24:40.000 --> 01:24:43.880
number one, it's about icons,
and icons are older than Nicia two.

943
01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:47.239
In fact, the very first sections
of Nicia two appeal to the ancient aposlotic

944
01:24:47.279 --> 01:24:54.359
traditions for why there's iconography in the
church. And iconography comes out of the

945
01:24:54.880 --> 01:24:58.880
liturgical tradition of the Old Testament,
the temple in the synagogue, which had

946
01:24:58.920 --> 01:25:01.720
imagery if you didn't know of the
Dury Europo Synagogue, that's the basis for

947
01:25:01.800 --> 01:25:11.399
the iconography. Not seven eighty seven
deciding to worship saints. Okay, it's

948
01:25:11.479 --> 01:25:15.439
not even It wasn't even about saints. Yeah, that's been changed. So

949
01:25:15.840 --> 01:25:17.119
again I'm not saying to be mean, but he doesn't even know what the

950
01:25:17.159 --> 01:25:21.399
Seventh Council's about. It's not about
the veneration of saints. But it's still

951
01:25:21.560 --> 01:25:27.479
pervasive in some Protestant circles as well. To be Protestantism has a more realistic

952
01:25:27.600 --> 01:25:30.399
and compelling relation to church history.
The Cardinal Newman famously said, to be

953
01:25:30.439 --> 01:25:33.159
deep in history is to cease to
be a Protestant. And to be sure,

954
01:25:33.239 --> 01:25:38.159
many contemporary Protestants do have a shallow
historical consciousness, which is up for

955
01:25:38.239 --> 01:25:43.600
it. Protestantism has like this video
and like Ruslan and thinking that seven eighty

956
01:25:43.640 --> 01:25:46.640
seven was about the worship of saints, that was nothing other that's a shallow

957
01:25:46.760 --> 01:25:53.159
understand than an effort of historical retrieval. The magisterial reformers appealed to the Church

958
01:25:53.239 --> 01:25:57.800
fathers just as much and sometimes more
than they appealed to scripture to oppose what

959
01:25:57.920 --> 01:26:01.479
they saw as the novel accretions and
innovations of the Medieval West, things like

960
01:26:01.560 --> 01:26:06.000
the following seven examples. Number one, the financially abusive system of salvation involving

961
01:26:06.079 --> 01:26:10.760
indulgences, the treasury of Americ masses
for the dead to reduce type. Okay,

962
01:26:10.880 --> 01:26:13.720
so first of all, to be
fair, I mean, I reject

963
01:26:13.800 --> 01:26:18.920
indulgences, but indulgences are not about
salvation. It's about temporal punishments. But

964
01:26:19.079 --> 01:26:24.319
I mean, I think it's ridiculous, and it's a ridiculous medieval Roman Catholic

965
01:26:24.399 --> 01:26:30.000
accretion because there's nothing about indulgences in
the Patristic period. But and I know

966
01:26:30.079 --> 01:26:32.319
all the arguments about the development of
that theology I was used to make the

967
01:26:32.439 --> 01:26:38.720
Roman Galic arguments, I know.
But to be fair, it's not about

968
01:26:39.239 --> 01:26:43.880
salvation through purchasing something that's not what
it is in purgatory and so forth.

969
01:26:44.199 --> 01:26:48.279
Number two, transittentiation has the required
mechanism for real presence in the Eucharist number

970
01:26:48.319 --> 01:26:54.039
three. Yeah, but I mean
the transformation is what's taught by the Church

971
01:26:54.119 --> 01:26:59.920
fathers. So again that's not an
accretion. It's in the Patristic writers very

972
01:27:00.119 --> 01:27:02.039
clearly, and the Eucharus was always
venerated from the early stays. So I

973
01:27:02.079 --> 01:27:05.960
don't know what he's talking about infallibility
number four. That the numbers, I

974
01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:14.239
do agree that people infallibility is accretion. Sacraments is seven. Number five.

975
01:27:14.479 --> 01:27:18.520
Cultic practices like the lineration of icons
number six, withholding communion in both kinds,

976
01:27:18.560 --> 01:27:23.479
that is, in both bread and
okay, icons are again a development,

977
01:27:23.920 --> 01:27:30.760
not evolution wise, but out of
the original temple and Synagogue liturgy.

978
01:27:30.279 --> 01:27:33.319
So again, Protestants, where do
you think the worship service comes from?

979
01:27:33.720 --> 01:27:39.439
Why did God leave us, like
you know, with no instructions on how

980
01:27:39.479 --> 01:27:47.319
to worship? Oh guess what the
apostles gave us liturgical traditions that they established

981
01:27:47.359 --> 01:27:51.680
in the seas that they set up
good wine from the laity. Number seven.

982
01:27:51.840 --> 01:27:57.079
The elaborate role assigned to Mary in
the piety and dogma of the Church.

983
01:27:57.920 --> 01:27:59.800
Well, I mean, if you
read the Council of Ephesus, you'll

984
01:27:59.800 --> 01:28:02.159
see why Mary has an important role. In fact, Saint Cyril says that

985
01:28:02.239 --> 01:28:06.039
ephesis that the entire Gospel is contained
in the word Theotokos, Mother of God.

986
01:28:06.399 --> 01:28:11.119
And if you understand that, you
understand the Gospel. So again they

987
01:28:11.199 --> 01:28:15.319
don't even know why ephesis matters,
why Theotokos is a big deal. And

988
01:28:15.560 --> 01:28:17.119
I mean, again, why are
you guys going to Protestants who can't even

989
01:28:17.199 --> 01:28:23.840
tell you why Theotokos matters. I
mean, you're not going to get Christology

990
01:28:24.079 --> 01:28:29.359
in Trinitarian theology from these people.
That's not going to be whack she's presenting.

991
01:28:29.439 --> 01:28:32.079
Here are all medieval issues that's sprout
on up, so there are all

992
01:28:32.159 --> 01:28:35.880
issues that came up later in the
church. No, the real presence did

993
01:28:35.920 --> 01:28:41.720
not come up late. You even
said, according to your own false example,

994
01:28:41.880 --> 01:28:45.279
that saints were invoked in seven eighty
seven. And now you're saying that

995
01:28:45.359 --> 01:28:48.319
it's a medieval thing, because seven
eighty seven is not quote Middle Ages,

996
01:28:48.600 --> 01:28:51.640
and it's early Middle Ages. But
you're talking about medieval Latin stuff. So

997
01:28:51.720 --> 01:28:57.319
he just contradicted himself. That's what
a lot of Luther's issue was the veneration

998
01:28:57.479 --> 01:29:01.520
of icons. They would say that
they don't worship them, but almost seemingly

999
01:29:01.800 --> 01:29:06.399
seeing people kiss pictures of icons the
way like Protestants treat the Bible for example,

1000
01:29:06.920 --> 01:29:11.159
Yeah, and bow to them.
It's kind of kind of kind of

1001
01:29:11.199 --> 01:29:14.479
weird, right, especially as a
Protestant verse three hundred and four hundred years

1002
01:29:14.479 --> 01:29:17.640
of the Church. But it is. And if you go deep into the

1003
01:29:17.680 --> 01:29:23.840
Patristic writings and the early liturgies,
I bet you these guys don't even know

1004
01:29:23.920 --> 01:29:28.319
there's early liturgies, do they.
Liturgy of Saint James, Liturgy of Saint

1005
01:29:28.399 --> 01:29:32.439
Mark, Alexandrian liturgy right, the
Roman Rite. These are ancient liturgies.

1006
01:29:33.920 --> 01:29:39.439
You can read the way that Irenaeus
and Justin Martyr described the liturgical worship in

1007
01:29:39.479 --> 01:29:43.319
the church at that time. This
all came later, This all came later.

1008
01:29:43.399 --> 01:29:45.880
It didn't though, so again ignorance
of the topic, just assuming that

1009
01:29:45.960 --> 01:29:49.760
it came later, most of it
specifically, I mean, there's some language

1010
01:29:49.760 --> 01:29:54.439
of the early church fathers regarding Mary
being viewed as the Mother of God,

1011
01:29:54.560 --> 01:29:58.399
but all the other stuff came way, way, way way later, and

1012
01:29:58.520 --> 01:30:00.840
so that that is, that is
what he's going. None of those issues

1013
01:30:01.039 --> 01:30:05.239
has a solid basis in Patristic Christianity. Not to be clear, church history

1014
01:30:05.520 --> 01:30:14.399
but it does unless we assume that
basis in church history or Patristic writings means

1015
01:30:14.560 --> 01:30:20.319
that it's explicated to the satisfaction of
Gavin or someone else. So again,

1016
01:30:20.439 --> 01:30:26.159
we saw this in the other video
from Gavin that it must be written down

1017
01:30:26.279 --> 01:30:30.039
in the Patristic period for me to
accept it as evidence. Oh really,

1018
01:30:30.119 --> 01:30:32.960
you sure you want to go with
that, because where in the Patristic period

1019
01:30:33.039 --> 01:30:40.039
is the Protestant canon of scripture?
Oh exactly, So the very criteria that

1020
01:30:40.079 --> 01:30:45.520
Gavin just set up his own argument
for the Protestant canon fails there. Did

1021
01:30:45.560 --> 01:30:48.680
you know that? And James White
admitted this in his debate with Trent and

1022
01:30:48.760 --> 01:30:53.399
then tried to run to saying Melido
as artist had a proto Protestant canon.

1023
01:30:53.720 --> 01:30:57.479
Sam Sheamun showed in his recent video, No he doesn't. He doesn't have.

1024
01:30:57.680 --> 01:31:01.920
He has not the Protestant canon.
So Melido doesn't work for proto Protestant

1025
01:31:01.960 --> 01:31:05.399
canon. The only thing that works
is Jerome. But why are we supposed

1026
01:31:05.399 --> 01:31:09.640
to follow Jerome? Like on what
basis is a Protestant? Am I supposed

1027
01:31:09.640 --> 01:31:12.199
to? Oh? Well, we
all know that Jerome. Of course we

1028
01:31:12.199 --> 01:31:15.359
should follow Jerome. Why well,
because it's the Hebrew rabbinical canon. Oh

1029
01:31:15.439 --> 01:31:20.319
so I'm supposed to submit to Jews
who don't believe in Christ and who reject

1030
01:31:20.359 --> 01:31:25.119
the teachings of the Church, not
the Church. The Jews have the authority,

1031
01:31:25.199 --> 01:31:28.560
not the Church. That makes absolutely
no sense for a Christian complicated it

1032
01:31:28.600 --> 01:31:32.279
doesn't neatly or consistently serve as a
support to any one side in the correct

1033
01:31:32.279 --> 01:31:36.920
debates. But Protestants can simply accept
that messiness because tradition is not for us

1034
01:31:38.000 --> 01:31:42.680
an infallible guide. Oh but wait
a minute. So, as we saw

1035
01:31:42.720 --> 01:31:45.600
in the other video, if tradition
is not an infallible guide, then the

1036
01:31:45.680 --> 01:31:49.199
Bible is a collection of fallible is
a fallible collection of infallible books, which

1037
01:31:49.279 --> 01:31:54.239
is a contradiction. So if this
book, which is a bunch of little

1038
01:31:54.279 --> 01:31:59.920
books, can be edited and have
books removed from it, then it's fallible,

1039
01:32:00.920 --> 01:32:05.239
and therefore Scripture can be reformed or
reformable. And we saw in Gavin's

1040
01:32:05.239 --> 01:32:11.039
other video he said that if it's
not infallible, it's reformable. Well,

1041
01:32:11.159 --> 01:32:15.560
post Apisolic tradition, according to Gavin, is reformable. That means that the

1042
01:32:15.640 --> 01:32:19.119
compilation of the canon of Scripture is
therefore reformable because it's post Apostolic. Do

1043
01:32:19.199 --> 01:32:27.039
you see this. It's not very
hard to figure this out. And Protestants

1044
01:32:27.079 --> 01:32:31.479
have operated as if the canon is
reformable, hence why many of them have

1045
01:32:32.000 --> 01:32:35.640
tossed out and rejected the books as
they list, Well, I've studied really

1046
01:32:35.680 --> 01:32:39.119
hard, and I know the great
text, and I prayed and I'm really

1047
01:32:39.159 --> 01:32:42.279
special, and the Holy Spirit told
me that it doesn't need to have Hebrews,

1048
01:32:42.439 --> 01:32:45.239
nation have James, and blah blah
blah. It's the same model,

1049
01:32:45.359 --> 01:32:53.439
the same ideology of the higher critics, meaning that I can't affirm the earlier

1050
01:32:53.520 --> 01:32:57.439
creeds, but I cannot affirm the
later creeds. Can't You don't affirm their

1051
01:32:57.479 --> 01:33:00.359
earlier creeds because when the Creed says
one Holy cow an absolute Church, you

1052
01:33:00.560 --> 01:33:04.880
just redefined it to be Protestant branch
theory. They did not mean branch theory.

1053
01:33:06.359 --> 01:33:12.359
If it's admitted that branch theory is
a late Anglican development, then it's

1054
01:33:12.439 --> 01:33:15.840
not in the mind of the Cappadocians
who wrote the Constantopolitan Creed. So one

1055
01:33:15.880 --> 01:33:21.000
Holy Catholic Apostolic does not mean every
different damn sect. And you can read

1056
01:33:21.039 --> 01:33:25.479
about ten pages in the Cappa Docians
to figure that out. Do you think

1057
01:33:25.560 --> 01:33:30.520
Basil thinks that Eunomius is part of
the same group as him? Does he

1058
01:33:30.600 --> 01:33:35.279
think that the Namatamachi are part of
the same group. No, of course

1059
01:33:35.359 --> 01:33:41.760
not. It's just silly. I
mean, do you understand it's it's deceiving

1060
01:33:41.840 --> 01:33:49.159
you. It's it's it's it's not
telling you the truth. Do you and

1061
01:33:49.239 --> 01:33:54.439
the audience understand that it's not getting
to me, it's deceiving you, guys.

1062
01:33:55.359 --> 01:34:00.760
I'm not saying he's bad will He
probably really believes these things, But

1063
01:34:00.880 --> 01:34:08.359
it is not intellectually honest to take
from the Kappadocians and pretend like they're teaching

1064
01:34:08.479 --> 01:34:15.680
the Protestant Anglican branch theory when they're
absolutely not. Go read the catechetical lectures,

1065
01:34:15.720 --> 01:34:20.720
for example of Saint Cyril of Jerusalem. He says you should hate all

1066
01:34:20.840 --> 01:34:28.000
heretics and they are outside the church. Does that sound like acumenism and that

1067
01:34:28.079 --> 01:34:30.760
we're all actually in the same church. That's ridiculous. Do you think that

1068
01:34:31.680 --> 01:34:35.880
the catechetical lectures of Saint Cyril,
which we lectured through those six years ago

1069
01:34:35.960 --> 01:34:41.520
on the channel, do you think
that they teach that one Holy Catholic Epistol.

1070
01:34:41.600 --> 01:34:45.600
It means all the churches, of
course not so this is just made

1071
01:34:45.680 --> 01:34:51.159
up. It's from the creed.
The creed doesn't mean the Protestant branch theory.

1072
01:34:51.199 --> 01:34:54.920
Can you guys figure this out.
It's not that hard. Now.

1073
01:34:55.000 --> 01:34:58.920
Maybe you don't agree with it,
maybe you think I'm wrong and you disagree,

1074
01:34:59.000 --> 01:35:01.239
but so be it. At about
just then the church fell away,

1075
01:35:02.760 --> 01:35:05.960
Go be with Joseph Smith and it
had just been restored, and Angel Moron

1076
01:35:06.079 --> 01:35:11.079
came to him and you guys,
have you know, go get your prayer

1077
01:35:11.119 --> 01:35:15.960
muffin wives or four or five of
them, because the Angel Moron came to

1078
01:35:15.039 --> 01:35:17.880
you and told you that that that
you that you're going to restore the true

1079
01:35:17.920 --> 01:35:23.000
Church. I mean, that's where
that logic leads. So if you don't

1080
01:35:23.119 --> 01:35:30.680
want one true church, then go
restore the church with Brigham and and Jojo.

1081
01:35:32.439 --> 01:35:38.159
That's the logic of it. I
can't affirm people infallibility. I can't

1082
01:35:38.479 --> 01:35:44.239
peoples old you know what I mean. A lot of these creeds came later,

1083
01:35:44.319 --> 01:35:49.319
a lot of these statements came later. That that just Vatican one and

1084
01:35:49.319 --> 01:35:53.279
PayPal fallibility is not a creed.
So he doesn't even know the difference between

1085
01:35:53.319 --> 01:35:56.840
dogmatic definitions and counsels and what a
creed is or what the creed is.

1086
01:35:57.079 --> 01:35:59.000
This is I mean, I'm not
sure to be mean to this guy,

1087
01:35:59.039 --> 01:36:00.600
but I had no idea what's going
on. Aren't in the first couple hundred

1088
01:36:00.680 --> 01:36:03.640
years of the church, right,
they're not a part of the first I

1089
01:36:03.720 --> 01:36:08.479
see in council there there later and
so, and I could acknowledge that there's

1090
01:36:08.479 --> 01:36:12.199
certain things that are just better and
messy. And I could acknowledge that lu

1091
01:36:12.840 --> 01:36:16.479
I'm making a joke. Okay,
The angel Moroni is who appeared to Joseph

1092
01:36:16.479 --> 01:36:19.640
Smith, and I call an angel
Moron. It's just a joke. Wrong

1093
01:36:19.680 --> 01:36:24.600
on certain things, I could acknowledge
that Calvin's got it wrong on certain things.

1094
01:36:24.840 --> 01:36:28.439
That's that's the flexibility that I could
acknowledge that the church Father's got it

1095
01:36:28.479 --> 01:36:30.920
wrong on the Trinity. I could
acknowledge that the Church Father's got the canon

1096
01:36:31.039 --> 01:36:34.159
wrong. You see, The logic
of this allowed is that no one creed

1097
01:36:34.640 --> 01:36:39.119
is superior to scripture, which is
okay, is anyone can in a scripture

1098
01:36:39.319 --> 01:36:42.159
superior to another canon of scripture?
Do you see the logic of this.

1099
01:36:42.359 --> 01:36:45.000
You's gonna get into next in place
is Holy Scripture over the authority of the

1100
01:36:45.119 --> 01:36:48.720
Church. This does not mean that
we reject tradition whole sin, but it

1101
01:36:48.800 --> 01:36:54.680
doesn't put the Scripture in a unique
position of paramount authority because we recognize that

1102
01:36:54.880 --> 01:36:59.119
only the words of Scripture are God
breathed, carried along by the Holy Spirit

1103
01:36:59.319 --> 01:37:02.920
the oracles of God. Jesus quoted
the Old Testament as God speaking and warned

1104
01:37:03.039 --> 01:37:08.079
against elevating tradition to a role that
nullifies this work gout. To put it

1105
01:37:08.119 --> 01:37:11.279
simply, we as the Church have
no rule of faith that is coverable in

1106
01:37:11.359 --> 01:37:15.159
authority to the very words it found
that we have in scripture. Protestantism makes

1107
01:37:15.199 --> 01:37:19.039
sense because it keeps that authority uppermost
and thereby keeps us accountable to the Apostyloe

1108
01:37:19.079 --> 01:37:24.319
deposit. To sum up, Protestantism
is first a renewal within the church,

1109
01:37:24.640 --> 01:37:28.800
second a removal of historical accretions,
and the third a return to the authority

1110
01:37:28.840 --> 01:37:33.199
of scripture. But again you see
the slippery slope of this because Gavin is

1111
01:37:33.279 --> 01:37:42.279
pretending and acting like Protestantism is a
unified thing which has this basic lowest common

1112
01:37:42.279 --> 01:37:48.720
denominator principle of his three bubbles of
the solos and two sacraments. That does

1113
01:37:48.840 --> 01:37:55.479
not exist. That is a fiction, that's an online ethereal made up idea

1114
01:37:56.079 --> 01:38:00.800
that there is this generic quote Protestant
church with these basic Have you spent much

1115
01:38:00.840 --> 01:38:05.319
time in Protestant churches. I mean
they can't agree on the color of the

1116
01:38:05.399 --> 01:38:12.479
carpet. Dude, They'll split over
Pastor Randy sleeping with sisters. Sassy,

1117
01:38:13.359 --> 01:38:18.840
Okay, you got a new denomination
over Pastor Randy Balls sleeping around the congregation

1118
01:38:18.920 --> 01:38:28.319
congregation and changing the carpet color to
purple at the megachurch. There's no one

1119
01:38:28.600 --> 01:38:34.920
Protestant lowest common nomen that's complete fiction. Now, are there some commonalities in

1120
01:38:35.039 --> 01:38:40.760
the classical Protestants. That's true,
But what did I just point out a

1121
01:38:40.800 --> 01:38:47.359
minute ago where the classical Protestants disagreed
they killed each other. Luther had Anabaptist

1122
01:38:47.439 --> 01:38:58.920
drowned because they wouldn't baptize infants.
So, but my point is not when

1123
01:38:59.000 --> 01:39:04.640
are the Protestants going to return to
killing the Baptists. My point is to

1124
01:39:04.760 --> 01:39:12.279
say, like you understand that there's
no clear indicator of the basics if the

1125
01:39:12.439 --> 01:39:16.039
original Reformers kill each other over what
you call basics, right, I mean,

1126
01:39:16.079 --> 01:39:20.520
this is so sense. Do they
not know this? Why do Protestants

1127
01:39:20.560 --> 01:39:25.800
always ignore this? They always blow
past this? Do you know High Church

1128
01:39:25.840 --> 01:39:33.000
Anglicans went to war with Presbyterians in
England, the Royalists and the cavaliers killing

1129
01:39:33.079 --> 01:39:39.439
each other over church government, The
very thing all these deceptive goobers pretend is

1130
01:39:39.560 --> 01:39:44.319
not essential. Yet your forebears killed
each other over it, so they thought

1131
01:39:44.359 --> 01:39:48.680
it was absolutely essential. So just
because you don't think it's essential does not

1132
01:39:48.920 --> 01:39:54.000
give you a privileged position, and
it doesn't make your position true. This

1133
01:39:54.159 --> 01:39:59.600
is a ridiculous fallacy to be a
Protestant because it has a more compelling appeal

1134
01:39:59.800 --> 01:40:03.960
to Okay, what if I just
said that my position is super broad and

1135
01:40:04.039 --> 01:40:08.479
appealing, does it therefore become true? I mean, if I can coct

1136
01:40:08.520 --> 01:40:13.600
the position. The logic of this
argument from Gavin is that it becomes a

1137
01:40:13.760 --> 01:40:18.880
better selling point because it's broader.
So if I theoretically concoct a super broad

1138
01:40:18.960 --> 01:40:25.560
perennials position where all the world religions
are basically versions of Jesus, wouldn't that

1139
01:40:25.720 --> 01:40:29.600
therefore be true? It's broader?
Do you see this stupid logic here?

1140
01:40:29.680 --> 01:40:34.920
This is so dumb. Why can't
I say that all the world religions,

1141
01:40:34.960 --> 01:40:38.880
which is, by the way,
where Francis is moving things, all the

1142
01:40:38.920 --> 01:40:44.760
world religions are kind of connected to
Jesus. That's broader than what Gavin outlined.

1143
01:40:45.640 --> 01:40:50.359
So that's better and more true.
This is so dumb, Like the

1144
01:40:50.720 --> 01:40:59.159
logic of this argument is just redunculous. Dude, trupy Knights. So okay,

1145
01:41:00.640 --> 01:41:02.720
they thought this was great. That
was like, that was the most

1146
01:41:02.800 --> 01:41:06.479
low tier video I've seen in years. Dude. That was actually worse the

1147
01:41:06.560 --> 01:41:12.399
other than the Soul Scripture video.
This one was really bad. So anyway,

1148
01:41:13.079 --> 01:41:17.520
you suw mean you s mean mean? How long have we been going?

1149
01:41:17.760 --> 01:41:20.279
Uh, we've been going for two
Let's do some super chests. You

1150
01:41:20.319 --> 01:41:24.960
get on super jets, all right, Sigma Mail on a grind set three

1151
01:41:25.039 --> 01:41:27.880
dollars. I wanted to reach out
and say thank you for all the content,

1152
01:41:28.039 --> 01:41:31.720
especially bringing on clergy and priests for
these discussions. I'll be brought into

1153
01:41:31.720 --> 01:41:34.640
the church tomorrow morning. Glory to
God for all things blessed. Lent to

1154
01:41:34.640 --> 01:41:39.800
you. Hey, many years to
you. So glad to hear another person

1155
01:41:39.960 --> 01:41:45.680
converting. So you know, it's
like, what exactly have we done that?

1156
01:41:45.800 --> 01:41:47.319
So bad? Oh? You're mean. Yeah, okay, whatever,

1157
01:41:47.840 --> 01:41:50.479
I mean, what exactly is mean? Oh you made a joke, okay

1158
01:41:50.560 --> 01:41:56.319
whatever, So whatever, big boss. Twenty dollars. I hear. It's

1159
01:41:56.359 --> 01:42:06.680
amazing when famous purple st worm in
a flapjaw space with the turning fort does

1160
01:42:06.720 --> 01:42:11.880
a roll blink. Okay, that
looks like a bunch of nonsense, but

1161
01:42:12.800 --> 01:42:15.560
pretty wacky. I'll take it.
Thank you for that. Twenty dollars,

1162
01:42:15.640 --> 01:42:19.560
BO five dollars. Why do priest
say never to judge anyone? Isn't it

1163
01:42:19.640 --> 01:42:24.840
contradictory to the Gospel. Shouldn't we
call out evil people? So I think

1164
01:42:24.880 --> 01:42:28.800
there's a time and place for this. So there's right. Two things are

1165
01:42:28.840 --> 01:42:32.079
said, and John seven Jesus says, judge with righteous judgment. But he

1166
01:42:32.159 --> 01:42:35.760
also says not to judge in the
sense of like condemning people if you have

1167
01:42:35.880 --> 01:42:41.399
the same issue. So both of
those things can be true and can be

1168
01:42:41.680 --> 01:42:44.680
done at the appropriate time. It's
just like we were talking about the other

1169
01:42:44.760 --> 01:42:48.039
night. In terms of self defense, there might be a situation where self

1170
01:42:48.119 --> 01:42:54.000
defense is called for in another case
or another a situation it might be appropriate

1171
01:42:54.079 --> 01:43:00.399
to accept martyrdom, and the situation
can determine the appropriate action. So we're

1172
01:43:00.439 --> 01:43:04.720
not like Protestants where we think that
there has to be one size fits all

1173
01:43:04.960 --> 01:43:10.079
or a Kantian categorical imperative where you
have to do this one thing in every

1174
01:43:10.119 --> 01:43:14.439
case. Okay, if you look
at the example of Solomon, Solomon uses

1175
01:43:14.520 --> 01:43:19.479
wisdom in the specific cases, and
that's different than just having knowledge. Wisdom

1176
01:43:19.600 --> 01:43:25.640
is the appropriate application of knowledge in
the right case at the right time.

1177
01:43:26.800 --> 01:43:29.319
So do you see what I'm saying
here. So, in some situations,

1178
01:43:29.680 --> 01:43:32.840
it might be appropriate to call someone
out. In other situations, it's not

1179
01:43:32.920 --> 01:43:40.680
appropriate to call somebody out, and
you should accept the humility that's necessary to

1180
01:43:40.800 --> 01:43:44.359
confess your sins. Let me give
you an example. You're going to We're

1181
01:43:44.359 --> 01:43:47.800
going to the liturgy tomorrow, Okay, is that an appropriate time. Let's

1182
01:43:47.800 --> 01:43:50.880
say we're walking into church. Is
that an appropriate time to start calling people

1183
01:43:50.920 --> 01:43:55.840
out for their sins? Of course
not. You're going there to prepare for

1184
01:43:55.960 --> 01:43:58.800
communion and you're going to go to
confession. That's not an appropriate time to

1185
01:43:58.840 --> 01:44:02.520
be calling out other people. Maybe
in another situation, you're at work and

1186
01:44:02.720 --> 01:44:06.960
you know somebody's corrupt and they're trying
to get somebody else fired, and you

1187
01:44:08.199 --> 01:44:12.159
save somebody their job by calling out
to do this lion and corrupt. That's

1188
01:44:12.199 --> 01:44:17.840
absolutely appropriate. So you see how
the context can determine whether an action is

1189
01:44:18.039 --> 01:44:21.880
a lawful, virtuous and righteous or
not. And if you read my essay

1190
01:44:23.359 --> 01:44:27.239
on the death penalty, this is
what St. Anthonatia says. Athanasia says,

1191
01:44:27.279 --> 01:44:30.960
in some cases killing can be virtuous
and lawful, and in other cases

1192
01:44:31.000 --> 01:44:34.079
it's a crime and it's murder.
So why it depends on the situation.

1193
01:44:35.279 --> 01:44:39.640
So I would say the same thing
with knowing when and how and when not

1194
01:44:39.840 --> 01:44:44.800
to judge. But a lot of
people also make the piety signaling mistake of

1195
01:44:45.039 --> 01:44:50.000
acting like the proper pious position is
to never say anybody's wrong or to never

1196
01:44:50.159 --> 01:44:56.840
call anyone out. That's actually a
cloak for cowardice. And we've had many

1197
01:44:56.920 --> 01:45:00.840
saints call that out and say that's
a cloak for cowardice. So there's two

1198
01:45:00.920 --> 01:45:04.319
extremes here. The cloak for cowardice
where you pretend to be pious because I

1199
01:45:04.399 --> 01:45:10.439
would never call anyone else because I
would rather just cower in the cord and

1200
01:45:10.760 --> 01:45:15.039
consider myself as cider. No,
that's actually just pride and self worship pre

1201
01:45:15.199 --> 01:45:20.880
west. Then the opposite of that
is every day all while I'm out here

1202
01:45:20.960 --> 01:45:25.439
calling everybody out, and I mean
I'm trying to people do this on Twitter.

1203
01:45:25.600 --> 01:45:29.840
The other extreme is like the Judge
all over Judge and everybody on Twitter

1204
01:45:29.960 --> 01:45:34.800
and all the evangelical Christ is King
all day long tweeting Christ is King.

1205
01:45:34.920 --> 01:45:40.159
It's like, what does that even
mean? Is he really in your life?

1206
01:45:40.399 --> 01:45:43.680
I mean, are you going to
the church he set up? You're

1207
01:45:43.680 --> 01:45:45.720
gonna tweet all day about Christ is
King? What does that even mean?

1208
01:45:45.800 --> 01:45:54.199
Though? You better be going to
confession if you're saying that and now just

1209
01:45:54.520 --> 01:46:00.199
plastering this nonsense all over Twitter when
you don't even go to church, and

1210
01:46:00.279 --> 01:46:01.199
I'm not even saying that, Oh
you just go to church. Now,

1211
01:46:01.239 --> 01:46:08.520
those are all externals. It's got
to be internal Anon three twenty six.

1212
01:46:08.560 --> 01:46:11.800
I was raised comptic, but I
was atheist for much of my life until

1213
01:46:11.880 --> 01:46:15.279
lately I found Orthodoxy has mount more
clarity than the Orientals. I think,

1214
01:46:15.359 --> 01:46:19.920
So where should I look in terms
of Orthodoxy? I mean, again,

1215
01:46:20.000 --> 01:46:24.199
I don't know where you live.
So the best thing to do is to

1216
01:46:24.279 --> 01:46:27.800
check out all of your orthodox options
and see which one has the best fit

1217
01:46:27.920 --> 01:46:30.399
for you. Because Orthodox churches could
be very varied. I mean, you

1218
01:46:30.439 --> 01:46:33.359
could be in one city where there's
five different Orthodox churches and then there's one

1219
01:46:33.439 --> 01:46:36.640
that's, you know, really appropriate
for you. Who seld the button one

1220
01:46:36.680 --> 01:46:41.439
dollar. Tim Gordon always brings up
the ejection of the Orthodox view on divorce

1221
01:46:41.479 --> 01:46:47.399
and marriage right before saying go anywhere
but not Orthodox. Well, yeah,

1222
01:46:47.439 --> 01:46:54.119
I think that they're under the impression
that Orthodoxy promotes divorce, which is not

1223
01:46:54.279 --> 01:47:00.439
true. I've never heard it promoted. It's always derided and dismissed as the

1224
01:47:00.560 --> 01:47:04.640
last option. But as we pointed
out, the Canons of Saint Basil,

1225
01:47:04.680 --> 01:47:10.319
which Rome used to accept and have
no problem with, allow for separation and

1226
01:47:10.439 --> 01:47:15.079
it's better for a person to be
remarried than it is for them to be

1227
01:47:15.319 --> 01:47:19.079
single and like you know, sleeping
around or something, So it's a concession.

1228
01:47:19.640 --> 01:47:24.720
We have a different interpretation of the
text where Jesus says except for fornication.

1229
01:47:26.279 --> 01:47:31.720
They have this legalistic reading of that. And Ubi Petris just made made

1230
01:47:31.800 --> 01:47:36.920
public his video which is the full
video on divorce, So go watch Ubi's

1231
01:47:36.960 --> 01:47:41.520
video on that. He just put
it up, which actually explains the or

1232
01:47:41.560 --> 01:47:47.359
our exposition. Seraph Leowend Dollar Orthodox
who complain to much about conspiracies. Are

1233
01:47:47.439 --> 01:47:51.600
blissfully aware of Elder Paisios and many
great sayings talking about all these same things.

1234
01:47:51.840 --> 01:47:57.399
I'm aware of that correct. What
Elder Paisios wrote would make Lord Voldemort

1235
01:47:57.439 --> 01:48:00.600
blush. Yeah, but in the
the past couple days, Lord v was

1236
01:48:00.640 --> 01:48:04.640
actually getting pretty hardcore. Big Boss
eight dollars. Here standeth the bird of

1237
01:48:04.720 --> 01:48:12.520
Hermes, eating my own wings to
keep myself tame. So Big Boss is

1238
01:48:12.600 --> 01:48:15.560
over there, he's over there getting
creative. He's engaging a little bit of

1239
01:48:15.840 --> 01:48:18.720
creative writing experimentation. Little Blue five
dollars, think it is so much.

1240
01:48:18.840 --> 01:48:24.359
I like the way that Neon gives
you a glowing, flaming halo, a

1241
01:48:24.439 --> 01:48:30.079
glowing flamingo halo. Yes, I
didn't actually plan that, so it must

1242
01:48:30.159 --> 01:48:34.359
be it must be a mystical realization. It must be. It must be

1243
01:48:34.439 --> 01:48:40.840
providence. I'm just joking. Ricky
three dollars. Streets will be scandalized if

1244
01:48:40.920 --> 01:48:43.560
Jays cannonized as a saint, well, I wouldn't expect that to happen,

1245
01:48:44.479 --> 01:48:48.960
So the streets will not be be
scandalized. So you don't worry about that.

1246
01:48:49.439 --> 01:48:58.319
No scandals in the streets. In
the streets, uh, so let's

1247
01:48:58.359 --> 01:49:00.960
see, this was long debate.
I didn't really this is like over two

1248
01:49:00.039 --> 01:49:05.960
hours. It wasn't really a debate. Let's see a little bit of terms.

1249
01:49:09.039 --> 01:49:11.760
We'll keep going because we haven't even
gone two hours. So we're doing

1250
01:49:11.840 --> 01:49:13.720
good. We got we got some
times. I gotta open it up.

1251
01:49:13.720 --> 01:49:16.560
I forgot. We've got people who
want to request to speak. Before we

1252
01:49:16.680 --> 01:49:18.960
do that, though, I want
you to watch this briefly. Here.

1253
01:49:19.039 --> 01:49:23.520
I gotta tell you something. We
got good people behind us. We got

1254
01:49:23.600 --> 01:49:26.920
good people. You know what I
mean. We got good people and you

1255
01:49:27.039 --> 01:49:29.399
need to hear what they have to
say. So check this out first.

1256
01:49:29.560 --> 01:49:32.880
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1285
01:51:39.840 --> 01:51:44.640
let's open it up to Q and
a first question comes from, uh,

1286
01:51:45.279 --> 01:51:47.479
I can't tell what that is,
a little creature with red eyes, red

1287
01:51:47.600 --> 01:51:59.000
land, red land. Yes,
sir, Oh, hey, how's it

1288
01:51:59.039 --> 01:52:01.920
going? Hey? Hey, So
I just wanted to ask really quick,

1289
01:52:02.520 --> 01:52:09.920
what is the Orthodox opinion on priestly
celibacy, you know, just celibate clergy

1290
01:52:10.000 --> 01:52:15.479
in general. And why would you
do if you think the Catholic position of

1291
01:52:15.359 --> 01:52:20.159
a full celibate clergy is wrong.
Why do you think that? Well,

1292
01:52:20.239 --> 01:52:25.520
because because it's right. So the
Orthodox position is that typically the priests are

1293
01:52:25.680 --> 01:52:30.159
married. It's not necessary in every
case, but typically they are. And

1294
01:52:30.479 --> 01:52:34.039
that's because that was the norm in
the East and the West until about the

1295
01:52:34.119 --> 01:52:41.399
Seventh Council. And the reason that
we believe in it perpetually is that the

1296
01:52:41.439 --> 01:52:46.119
Seventh Ecumenical Council accepts the quintessx Trolo
Council. Rome for a time affirmed this

1297
01:52:46.319 --> 01:52:51.199
and then reverse their stance on it
and doesn't accept it, and so Rome

1298
01:52:51.279 --> 01:52:57.920
doesn't then actually believe the Seventh Ecumenical
Council. So Rome made it a mandatory

1299
01:52:58.039 --> 01:53:02.760
discipline. Uh or I think many
reasons people speculate it could be because it

1300
01:53:02.760 --> 01:53:08.640
would actually accrue more wealth to the
church because you would no longer have inheritance

1301
01:53:08.720 --> 01:53:13.079
given to the sons of the priests
every priest. Then that inheritance goes to

1302
01:53:13.239 --> 01:53:15.920
the church. So there's a lot
of potential reasons as to why Rome might

1303
01:53:15.960 --> 01:53:20.479
have made it mandatory, but it
was not the norm in the church prior

1304
01:53:20.520 --> 01:53:27.239
to that. And just like a
quick follow up, but you know,

1305
01:53:27.800 --> 01:53:30.520
I'm currently Catholic right now. I
mean, you know, I'm still searching

1306
01:53:30.560 --> 01:53:34.039
around and trying to learn as much
as I can, but I know a

1307
01:53:34.079 --> 01:53:42.800
lot of Protestants protest a celibate clergy, But is it like strictly against Orthodoxy,

1308
01:53:43.079 --> 01:53:46.119
Like, is that is that a
problem for you guys that I mean

1309
01:53:46.399 --> 01:53:51.479
most I mean the bishops are typically
celibate because bishops are usually pulled from monasteries,

1310
01:53:51.600 --> 01:53:57.279
and the reason for that was that
bishops it was practically seen to be

1311
01:53:57.399 --> 01:54:01.039
difficult for bishops to administer their due
in their jurisdiction having a family. So

1312
01:54:02.319 --> 01:54:08.399
the practice of the church found it
easier to have bishops that were from the

1313
01:54:08.560 --> 01:54:15.680
monasteries, and the priests live in
the world and have families. So I

1314
01:54:15.960 --> 01:54:19.640
guess, just to really like dumb
it down for me, it wouldn't.

1315
01:54:20.239 --> 01:54:25.840
It's not like you don't see it
as a problem as the priestly as I

1316
01:54:25.880 --> 01:54:27.960
mean, let's just say it's for
good reasons, right, and not for

1317
01:54:29.279 --> 01:54:32.079
you know, the reason for the
church with caure more wealth, as you

1318
01:54:32.159 --> 01:54:35.880
said. If it was just for
like, you know, good reasons,

1319
01:54:36.399 --> 01:54:41.680
is that like a disqualifying thing.
I don't think it makes sense. I

1320
01:54:41.760 --> 01:54:46.680
think it was a stupid decision,
and it also betrays the fact that the

1321
01:54:46.840 --> 01:54:51.279
Roman Church doesn't actually believe the teaching
of the Seventh Ecumenical Council, because for

1322
01:54:51.439 --> 01:54:55.800
them it's just, oh, the
Seventh Council teaches us that we can have

1323
01:54:55.880 --> 01:54:59.720
images, and for them that means
anything and everything. But there's actually a

1324
01:55:00.000 --> 01:55:04.000
strict theology of the images at the
Seventh Ecumenical Council, which Rome doesn't believe.

1325
01:55:04.079 --> 01:55:10.800
And there's also the decisions of the
Council in terms of the anathemas,

1326
01:55:10.880 --> 01:55:16.239
which Rome doesn't accept, the anauticon
things like that, And there's also the

1327
01:55:16.760 --> 01:55:23.119
Seventh Council's acceptance of Trollo, which
Rome rejects. So you see what I'm

1328
01:55:23.159 --> 01:55:25.960
saying, Like, for them,
an Ecumenical Council really doesn't mean anything.

1329
01:55:26.319 --> 01:55:29.439
It's just whatever the Pope decides in
the council. So the Pope picks and

1330
01:55:29.520 --> 01:55:34.880
chooses and dispenses with stuff and can
reverse his previous papal decisions, his predecessor's

1331
01:55:35.039 --> 01:55:39.199
decisions. And if you read this
book, which I recommend here, the

1332
01:55:40.560 --> 01:55:45.640
mind Or of Papadoccus book, it's
about the period of one thy seventy to

1333
01:55:46.079 --> 01:55:53.079
fourteen fifty three. This whole book
is about that crucial divergence period between East

1334
01:55:53.119 --> 01:55:56.800
and West, and it's one of
the best of recent note on that.

1335
01:56:00.520 --> 01:56:05.159
Thanks. J Yeah, great questions. Let's see, I thought you were

1336
01:56:05.199 --> 01:56:09.960
actually a like a Viking dude with
a beard, and then I zoomed in

1337
01:56:10.079 --> 01:56:12.760
and looked at your picture. It
was like a little creature with red eyes.

1338
01:56:12.840 --> 01:56:15.439
That was tripping me out. Dude, Ricky, what's up? Ricky?

1339
01:56:21.079 --> 01:56:25.760
Hey, Jake, Hey, what's
up? Many. I had a

1340
01:56:25.880 --> 01:56:33.239
question about this quote from Saint Cyril
on his commentary of John sixteen fourteen.

1341
01:56:34.000 --> 01:56:39.399
It's the versus all things that the
Father has our mind. I mean,

1342
01:56:39.720 --> 01:56:44.159
he shall glorify me, for he
shall receive of mine and shall show it

1343
01:56:44.439 --> 01:56:51.199
unto you and Saint Cyril right in
this way like this is a lot in

1344
01:56:51.359 --> 01:56:56.039
Katana, like a long unfamiliar with
that. You're you're gonna say, is

1345
01:56:56.119 --> 01:56:59.079
this the quote about Philly Oakuah?
Yeah. If you read the Sashensky book,

1346
01:56:59.119 --> 01:57:03.439
he covers that quote and it's talking
about that the spirit doesn't the spirit.

1347
01:57:03.960 --> 01:57:08.479
It's not like the spirit has no
relation to the sun. The spirit

1348
01:57:08.600 --> 01:57:12.039
does relate to the sun, and
he rests in the sun. But that

1349
01:57:12.159 --> 01:57:17.560
doesn't make the sun the existential source
of the spirit's hypostasis. Yeah, I

1350
01:57:17.720 --> 01:57:23.199
just I was confused because what does
Because I did hear you say that in

1351
01:57:23.840 --> 01:57:30.399
the filioquid debate review with David But
what what exactly could because I don't have

1352
01:57:30.479 --> 01:57:38.039
this book, But what exactly does
he mean by by what he receives from

1353
01:57:38.159 --> 01:57:43.800
the sun? Right? So he
rests in the sun and then manifest the

1354
01:57:43.880 --> 01:57:48.199
sun manifests him. Right, so
there is a move there's a movement through

1355
01:57:48.279 --> 01:57:58.840
the sun. So when this can
this is actually brought up at the Yeah,

1356
01:57:59.119 --> 01:58:02.479
and then it that because that text
is brought up by the Roman Catholics

1357
01:58:02.920 --> 01:58:08.159
and the response of the Orthodox is
that, yeah, what he receives from

1358
01:58:08.199 --> 01:58:11.960
the son is in terms of the
resting and the manifestation. So there's a

1359
01:58:12.079 --> 01:58:16.199
movement from the father that's not separate
from the son or apart from the son.

1360
01:58:17.000 --> 01:58:21.640
It's related to the son and through
the son. Okay, Yeah,

1361
01:58:21.680 --> 01:58:25.159
that was my question, thank you. Yeah. And if you look at

1362
01:58:26.199 --> 01:58:30.560
even modern Vatican assessments of that,
like the Shassinsky book, because he wrote

1363
01:58:30.600 --> 01:58:33.880
that book when he was Catholic,
like they'll admit that it's not it's not

1364
01:58:34.039 --> 01:58:40.279
really a quote Philioguay text because he's
not. Because elsewhere Cyril explicitly states that

1365
01:58:40.399 --> 01:58:45.600
the son, the father's the sole
cause. So resting in and receiving from

1366
01:58:45.800 --> 01:58:50.680
is not does not mean that the
son contributes to the existential production of the

1367
01:58:50.720 --> 01:58:56.960
spirit, but it means that he
does contribute to the manifestation or the movement

1368
01:58:57.039 --> 01:59:00.680
of the spirit. So the so
so the spirit absolutely moves through him,

1369
01:59:00.920 --> 01:59:05.800
and that actually becomes because even at
the time of Florence, excuse me,

1370
01:59:06.359 --> 01:59:11.640
Blackerne and Florence. So you have
Lions and then Blackerney and the pell like

1371
01:59:11.720 --> 01:59:16.600
Synods and then Florence. Some people
were saying in the Orthodox camp that there's

1372
01:59:16.640 --> 01:59:21.479
no relation between the son and the
spirit. And if you read the Papadocus

1373
01:59:21.560 --> 01:59:27.119
book Cristis and Byzantium, this is
where Gregor Cyprus comes along and says,

1374
01:59:27.159 --> 01:59:29.960
no, it's it's not correct to
say there's no relation. And I think

1375
01:59:30.000 --> 01:59:33.000
Gregor even cites this text you're talking
about from Cyril where he says that this

1376
01:59:33.560 --> 01:59:38.920
the spirit does receive from the Sun, not his hyposthetic existence, but manifestation.

1377
01:59:40.039 --> 01:59:46.159
Right, So my final question is
where where can I find that Ceial

1378
01:59:46.279 --> 01:59:51.720
quote that the spirit only proceeds from
the Father has caused there's a dispute.

1379
01:59:53.439 --> 01:59:59.920
It's when Cyril is rejecting aan the
Nestorian Creed. It's in David's video.

1380
02:00:00.199 --> 02:00:03.199
He David has a video where he
talks about the Nestorian Creed that had the

1381
02:00:03.279 --> 02:00:06.840
philly oquay, like that there were
Nestorians that were making a philly oquay argument

1382
02:00:08.239 --> 02:00:14.239
and Cyril explicitly rejects the Nestorian line
of argumentation. And it's in one of

1383
02:00:14.439 --> 02:00:15.720
David's videos, but I forget which
one, and it has but it has

1384
02:00:15.800 --> 02:00:21.279
the citation if he's typing Cyril Comma
phillioquay, David Rhan, that video will

1385
02:00:21.319 --> 02:00:25.720
come up. Okay, thank you
so much. Yeah, that's a great

1386
02:00:25.800 --> 02:00:31.520
question, all you too, man. And uh. Also, I think

1387
02:00:31.560 --> 02:00:38.560
there's like two or three quotes from
Sishensky that from Cyril, and he has

1388
02:00:38.600 --> 02:00:45.359
a good explanation of all those quotes
in Ari sixteen twelve. What's up?

1389
02:01:02.159 --> 02:01:06.760
Go ahead, you got it?
I'm mute. Are you talking to me?

1390
02:01:10.279 --> 02:01:13.479
Yeah? I was wondering how you
respond to a certain how you would

1391
02:01:13.479 --> 02:01:18.840
respond to a certain argument that I've
heard recently about Solo scriptura, And what

1392
02:01:18.960 --> 02:01:23.760
I've heard is that a lot of
the arguments that we use it, specifically

1393
02:01:23.760 --> 02:01:28.039
about the canon, could have been
used by the theirases against Jesus when he

1394
02:01:28.159 --> 02:01:30.640
was arguing against their tradition. Do
you think that that's a valid argument to

1395
02:01:30.960 --> 02:01:38.560
the proces bring up. It's not
because there's a false equivalence between the authority

1396
02:01:38.600 --> 02:01:41.920
and role of the Church and the
authority and role of the Pharisees. And

1397
02:01:42.279 --> 02:01:47.479
it also doesn't work because even in
the Old Testament, Jesus doesn't doesn't even

1398
02:01:47.479 --> 02:01:51.880
though he cites scriptures, he doesn't
act like scriptures are the only authority.

1399
02:01:53.079 --> 02:01:57.920
So citing something or referring to something
doesn't. It doesn't fall from that that

1400
02:01:58.000 --> 02:02:00.800
it's the only authority. Because Jesus
refers in certain places to traditions that are

1401
02:02:00.840 --> 02:02:04.680
not in the mosaic written text.
Right, So, for example, he

1402
02:02:04.800 --> 02:02:09.479
goes to the feasts of Lights.
Okay, so he's attending Honicah. Well,

1403
02:02:09.479 --> 02:02:12.079
there's nothing in the Torah that tells
you that you have to go to

1404
02:02:12.159 --> 02:02:16.600
Honicah. Right, So he's giving
obeisance to various traditions. But if the

1405
02:02:16.720 --> 02:02:23.199
dispute is over true and false tradition, then it's true that Jesus might appeal

1406
02:02:23.319 --> 02:02:30.560
to written traditions that trump the Pharisees
made up traditions. But that's different than

1407
02:02:31.239 --> 02:02:35.479
how we would know, for example, that Matthew wrote Matthew's Gospel. There's

1408
02:02:35.520 --> 02:02:40.319
no other way to know that other
than Apostolic tradition, because the Gospel,

1409
02:02:40.359 --> 02:02:43.760
for example, doesn't identify this is
Matthew, the Apostle of Jesus. Right,

1410
02:02:44.079 --> 02:02:47.359
it's the church's tradition that that text
Matthew was written by Matthew. And

1411
02:02:47.479 --> 02:02:53.119
so even though apostolic tradition is not
the only element which goes into canonicity,

1412
02:02:53.479 --> 02:02:57.680
it's one of the key elements and
that can only be known from church tradition.

1413
02:02:58.199 --> 02:03:02.600
So it's a false equivalence to like, because Jesus appealed to texts at

1414
02:03:02.680 --> 02:03:08.039
times to refute pharisees that therefore,
in the New Testament period, I have

1415
02:03:08.359 --> 02:03:12.000
a time machine that I can get
in and go back and see which were

1416
02:03:12.039 --> 02:03:15.159
the autographa from Paul or from Matthew. Do you see how that's a false

1417
02:03:15.239 --> 02:03:19.439
equivalence. Yeah, I guess I
actually did answer my question. There's just

1418
02:03:19.800 --> 02:03:24.680
one kind of question I would have, is I guess I'm not sure how

1419
02:03:25.039 --> 02:03:28.920
like you, if we if somebody
was alive at that time, like the

1420
02:03:29.000 --> 02:03:31.760
average person, how would they tell
the different delinea between a true tradition and

1421
02:03:31.800 --> 02:03:35.640
a false tradition, especially because there
were oral traditions that were true at the

1422
02:03:35.720 --> 02:03:41.319
time. Right. Yeah, I
think that if you're asking, like on

1423
02:03:41.439 --> 02:03:45.239
an an individual level, like ultimately
it's only the Holy Spirit that can guide

1424
02:03:45.319 --> 02:03:49.359
us at that individual certitude level.
Like, there's no, it doesn't matter

1425
02:03:49.439 --> 02:03:55.079
how many external things we pile up, councils, popes, like, none

1426
02:03:55.079 --> 02:03:59.920
of those things can actually ultimately give
the individual certitude because those are just mean

1427
02:04:00.399 --> 02:04:03.520
external means to knowing this or that
thing. So at the end of the

1428
02:04:03.640 --> 02:04:10.239
day, the certitude only comes via
you know, honestly seeking God in the

1429
02:04:10.239 --> 02:04:15.239
Holy Spirit giving a certitude. So
that's not primarily where we would disagree with

1430
02:04:15.279 --> 02:04:17.319
a Protestant or a Roman Catholic.
Where we would disagree with them is the

1431
02:04:17.439 --> 02:04:23.199
means that are used, because Protestants, Roman Catholics, everybody admits that it's

1432
02:04:23.239 --> 02:04:26.319
the Holy Spirit at the end of
the day that gives a certitude. But

1433
02:04:26.399 --> 02:04:29.600
where we disagree is the means.
And so that's why I'm always pointing out

1434
02:04:29.760 --> 02:04:32.760
that as a Protestant, you don't
have the means to get in a time

1435
02:04:32.880 --> 02:04:40.159
machine and go back and see what
Paul and Matthew themselves wrote down that's called

1436
02:04:40.159 --> 02:04:43.720
the autographa, right, the original
text that they wrote. Nobody has autographa.

1437
02:04:43.760 --> 02:04:46.520
They don't exist. Literally, there's
none. And for example, Muslims

1438
02:04:46.520 --> 02:04:48.640
always bring this up, right,
they're like, you don't have autographa,

1439
02:04:49.119 --> 02:04:53.479
right, you don't have the original
text. All we have are copies that

1440
02:04:53.600 --> 02:04:57.560
we're trusting that the bishops of the
Church preserved. So you see that the

1441
02:04:57.680 --> 02:05:01.560
canon of scripture in the case of
the New Testament, is intimately bound up

1442
02:05:01.680 --> 02:05:06.880
with Apostolic tradition, the liturgy,
the maintenance and transmission and preservation of the

1443
02:05:06.960 --> 02:05:12.560
text by the bishoprics. So there's
no there's no other way to get the

1444
02:05:12.680 --> 02:05:16.560
canon, all right, there's there's
no like, there's no scholar that we

1445
02:05:16.640 --> 02:05:19.680
can go to, like some Protestant
scholar who can figure it out for us,

1446
02:05:19.720 --> 02:05:24.039
because every Protestant scholar is going to
have to rely on writings of the

1447
02:05:24.119 --> 02:05:30.199
church fathers. Does that make sense? So so so, like if you're

1448
02:05:30.239 --> 02:05:33.159
walking around with Jesus, like or
if you're in the time of prior to

1449
02:05:33.279 --> 02:05:36.640
Jesus and you know, like,
how are you going to know what's true?

1450
02:05:36.800 --> 02:05:41.840
I mean, you would have to
ultimately trust the Holy Spirit was leading

1451
02:05:41.880 --> 02:05:43.840
you to know what was true of
false at the end of the day.

1452
02:05:46.479 --> 02:05:48.720
Yeah, okay, thank you,
that makes sense. Yeah, there's just

1453
02:05:48.840 --> 02:05:56.239
not There is no external thing that
can grant you internal certitude. And that's

1454
02:05:56.279 --> 02:05:59.239
why I just look at the confusion
in the Roman Catholic world, right,

1455
02:05:59.319 --> 02:06:01.880
I mean, when Catholics are supposed
to believe that this, you know,

1456
02:06:02.159 --> 02:06:05.720
office of the Papers, He's going
to give you this simple certitude, and

1457
02:06:05.800 --> 02:06:12.079
it doesn't do it. But I
guess what I would ask at that time,

1458
02:06:12.159 --> 02:06:15.600
I was a potetical like normative authority, Like what normative authority would be?

1459
02:06:16.000 --> 02:06:17.920
Well, I think you're right.
That's why I think. Yeah,

1460
02:06:17.920 --> 02:06:23.640
I think Jesus answers that when he
says therefore, because the Pharisees sit in

1461
02:06:23.680 --> 02:06:26.600
the seat of Moses, do as
they say, but not as they do.

1462
02:06:27.479 --> 02:06:30.880
So they were the legitimate authority,
but they were also abusing that authority.

1463
02:06:30.960 --> 02:06:33.760
And so I think in Jesus's answer, there's a kind of an assumption

1464
02:06:34.000 --> 02:06:39.439
that the people will be able to
figure out like, Okay, you know,

1465
02:06:39.520 --> 02:06:42.159
they're telling me that I should tie
this, and I should do this

1466
02:06:42.319 --> 02:06:45.479
fast and so forth. But I'm
not going to emulate the way that they

1467
02:06:45.600 --> 02:06:49.720
go and visit the whorehouses for example. All right, thank you to answer

1468
02:06:49.760 --> 02:06:59.039
to my question. Yeah, that's
a great question. Mister Pink, what's

1469
02:06:59.119 --> 02:07:13.479
up? Thank you guys for these
sports supergestin if you would, if you

1470
02:07:13.520 --> 02:07:16.359
feel so inclined, you can also
support via heading over to talk dot com.

1471
02:07:16.479 --> 02:07:19.680
Use a promo co J fifty to
get fifty percent off. It looks

1472
02:07:19.720 --> 02:07:26.399
like mister Pink's having some difficult deconnecting, so we'll go here to mister White

1473
02:07:27.439 --> 02:07:35.600
and mister Gray and all the other
cast of characters from Reservoir Dogs. Ex.

1474
02:07:35.760 --> 02:07:48.960
Nila, what's up? You gotta? Um mute, you gotta,

1475
02:07:49.000 --> 02:07:54.159
I'm mute, Nila. Oh hi, Sorry, there's a bit of a

1476
02:07:54.279 --> 02:07:59.880
delay in that. I just had
a question regarding like things like natural fol

1477
02:08:00.439 --> 02:08:05.359
and the order of our philosophy,
right, because I was I'm in some

1478
02:08:05.439 --> 02:08:11.479
philosophy classes, and I hear a
lot epistemology specifically, and I hear a

1479
02:08:11.560 --> 02:08:18.800
lot of kind of statements by professors
where we have to put what do you

1480
02:08:18.880 --> 02:08:24.560
call it the epistemic chard or sorry, or rather the metaphysical cart before the

1481
02:08:24.640 --> 02:08:31.239
epistemic course, And I felt like
I kind of did agree, but as

1482
02:08:31.319 --> 02:08:35.479
I hear it natural theology falls into
that problem where they do that. So

1483
02:08:35.600 --> 02:08:39.680
I'm wondering, how is it that
putting how is it that the order of

1484
02:08:39.760 --> 02:08:45.279
the cart's kind of I don't I'm
maybe taking the analogy too far, But

1485
02:08:45.720 --> 02:08:50.560
how is it that that ordering causes
these problems? Well, because ancient and

1486
02:08:50.640 --> 02:08:58.840
medieval metaphysics in general didn't think about
questions that were raised by the time of

1487
02:09:00.119 --> 02:09:05.840
Kant and human and the Enlightenment.
So they raised the very question that you're

1488
02:09:05.880 --> 02:09:11.199
asking, which is that a lot
of the ancient and medieval metaphysical beliefs basic

1489
02:09:11.319 --> 02:09:16.960
beliefs first principles. They're premised on
the idea that there are self evident truths,

1490
02:09:16.079 --> 02:09:22.439
there's dosastically basic truth, properly basic
beliefs, all these terms you can

1491
02:09:22.560 --> 02:09:28.880
use. And what happens is that
if metaphysics is where you start the line

1492
02:09:28.920 --> 02:09:35.840
of argumentation assumes that you have an
epistemology which has not yet been justified or

1493
02:09:35.880 --> 02:09:41.159
fleshed out. So the Enlightenment philosophers
are asking, hey, wait a minute,

1494
02:09:41.199 --> 02:09:43.479
you're putting your metaphysical cart before your
episomic course. If you're going to

1495
02:09:43.520 --> 02:09:46.520
tell me all this metaphysical stuff,
I need to know that you can know

1496
02:09:46.640 --> 02:09:50.600
things first, because how do we
know that your metaphysics and all this grandiose

1497
02:09:50.680 --> 02:09:56.560
stuff that you're talking about with t
los and causation and you know, whatever

1498
02:09:56.680 --> 02:10:00.880
it might be the soul, its
virtues, the vegetati soul, you know,

1499
02:10:00.960 --> 02:10:03.279
all this stuff that would be a
part of metaphysics. I mean,

1500
02:10:03.399 --> 02:10:07.439
that's assuming that you have a some
kind of adequate theory of knowledge. But

1501
02:10:09.279 --> 02:10:13.439
that's what has not yet been established. So whether it's Descartes or whether it's

1502
02:10:13.880 --> 02:10:18.199
Hume or whether it's Kant, they're
all kind of saying, let's slow down

1503
02:10:18.279 --> 02:10:22.760
here. First, tell me how
you know things. Then maybe you can

1504
02:10:22.840 --> 02:10:28.920
tack on all the metaphysics stuff.
So that's why natural theology is typically premised

1505
02:10:30.000 --> 02:10:33.760
on ignoring that question, because it
comes out of that ancient, medieval world's

1506
02:10:33.880 --> 02:10:37.560
view of things. So it's not
that there's no such thing as metaphysics or

1507
02:10:37.600 --> 02:10:41.920
there is no quote natural theology.
It's just that for us as Orthodox,

1508
02:10:43.000 --> 02:10:46.039
as Father stan Eloy says, there's
not natural theology. Really, there's natural

1509
02:10:46.119 --> 02:10:50.439
revelation, but not natural theology and
the tonistic two tiered sense it just doesn't

1510
02:10:50.479 --> 02:10:56.439
make sense because it's resting on these
kinds of unjustified self evident truths. So

1511
02:10:56.880 --> 02:11:01.439
if you want to be a classical
foundationalist evidence us and say there's self evident

1512
02:11:01.520 --> 02:11:05.680
truths, we need some account of
that. And it's not unfair to ask

1513
02:11:05.760 --> 02:11:11.119
that question like all these people say, I see, So would it be

1514
02:11:11.359 --> 02:11:16.760
erroneous to say that if we could
establish and just like a like a for

1515
02:11:16.840 --> 02:11:22.279
the sake of making an argument,
wherein we would put the metaphysical card for

1516
02:11:22.560 --> 02:11:30.039
could we maybe argue for to say
there is no possible world outside of the

1517
02:11:30.159 --> 02:11:35.760
Christian world, like shaving away all
other worlds possible worlds is completely impossible by

1518
02:11:35.800 --> 02:11:41.760
attacking the foundation of those worlds,
possibly how they get their epistemology or even

1519
02:11:41.800 --> 02:11:45.520
how they get them metaphysical knowledge.
If we could wipe that all away,

1520
02:11:45.640 --> 02:11:50.479
if we could disapprove all of that
by attacking some kind of erroneous foundation that

1521
02:11:50.560 --> 02:11:56.920
they have, for example, the
problem of induction. Could we I mean,

1522
02:11:56.960 --> 02:12:00.439
I'm not fleshing up the whole argument
here, but could we then reach

1523
02:12:00.680 --> 02:12:09.840
a point where we could refer to
things like scripture and revelation as the kind

1524
02:12:09.880 --> 02:12:13.680
of metaphysical foundation of a world,
as you know, refer to God as

1525
02:12:13.880 --> 02:12:18.159
the metaphysical foundation of a world as
opposed to just doing it through the epistemic

1526
02:12:18.279 --> 02:12:24.720
way. Yeah. I think the
argument would be that Christianity, as we

1527
02:12:24.840 --> 02:12:31.439
are arguing, gives a basis for
epistemology. That basis is revealed epistemology,

1528
02:12:31.600 --> 02:12:39.239
theonomous epistemology, and that then entails
the metaphysics of Christianity. Okay, perfect,

1529
02:12:39.319 --> 02:12:45.640
That answers pretty much. So basically
we're saying we're not saying that everybody

1530
02:12:45.720 --> 02:12:50.119
in ancient midial metaphysics gets metaphysics wrong. We're saying that the Enlightenment philosophers have

1531
02:12:50.199 --> 02:12:56.479
a good question about assumptions, and
thus we can answer that assumption and then

1532
02:12:56.560 --> 02:13:00.479
reassert the metaphysics. So we're not
denying the metaphysics. We're not becomings,

1533
02:13:00.680 --> 02:13:05.439
we're not Enlightenment philosophers. We're admitting
a good argument and are a good valid

1534
02:13:05.560 --> 02:13:09.159
question. I mean, why is
it not a good question to say,

1535
02:13:09.439 --> 02:13:11.840
how does Aristotol know that his first
principles are correct? Maybe they are,

1536
02:13:13.359 --> 02:13:16.399
and why should we believe that they
are? Well, they just are.

1537
02:13:16.479 --> 02:13:18.800
I mean that's typically what these people
say. Okay, well that's not very

1538
02:13:18.840 --> 02:13:22.319
good. I mean, how is
that going to answer a skeptic? Right?

1539
02:13:22.359 --> 02:13:26.840
And they'll just say stuff like,
well, skeptics skepticisms absurd because they're

1540
02:13:26.840 --> 02:13:28.239
self evident truths. Well, that's
just not good enough. I'm sorry,

1541
02:13:28.319 --> 02:13:33.680
that's that's a weak answer, and
most people in the modern world don't find

1542
02:13:33.840 --> 02:13:41.079
that answer or an appeal to authority
sufficient. So you can keep repeating parapateetic

1543
02:13:41.159 --> 02:13:43.239
axiom, but nobody in the modern
world is going to accept the parapateetic axiom.

1544
02:13:43.479 --> 02:13:48.560
So we need to answer those people
according to their challenges, not just

1545
02:13:48.680 --> 02:13:54.119
keep repeating tomistic metaphysics. Yeah,
I see what you're saying. Yeah,

1546
02:13:54.319 --> 02:13:56.880
I agree. It's like saying I'm
not gonna I'm not It's like what like

1547
02:13:58.279 --> 02:14:01.159
say Ed Phaser people, It's like
you're saying, basically, I'm going to

1548
02:14:01.199 --> 02:14:05.039
ignore your question and just keep going
with what I do. It's like,

1549
02:14:05.119 --> 02:14:07.680
well, why are you not going
to answer their question? Well, and

1550
02:14:07.920 --> 02:14:11.119
if you read the Five Proof Book, Phaser says something like these beliefs are

1551
02:14:11.239 --> 02:14:15.000
just basically held by most people.
So it's true. It's like, that's

1552
02:14:15.439 --> 02:14:20.119
that's a terrible argument. So then
when we look at people like Thomas Reid

1553
02:14:20.239 --> 02:14:26.399
and even Planting and like recent I
guess recent philosophy, you know, Plantingo

1554
02:14:26.520 --> 02:14:31.479
with his warrant and warrant to a
true belief and stuff like that, and

1555
02:14:31.000 --> 02:14:37.039
Thomas Reid with his kind of what
is it like the minto of nature belief.

1556
02:14:37.079 --> 02:14:41.319
I don't know if you've read read
on this topic. I mean I've

1557
02:14:41.359 --> 02:14:43.760
read Planting, I haven't read much
Thomas Reid. I don't find him to

1558
02:14:43.800 --> 02:14:46.399
be very convincing. I mean,
I mean, we had a class on

1559
02:14:46.600 --> 02:14:50.760
the common Sense Philosophers and I didn't
find it to be very convincing. So

1560
02:14:52.279 --> 02:14:54.680
but I mean, I think that
Planning has a good critique of problems in

1561
02:14:54.800 --> 02:14:58.800
natural theology that I would agree with, but I wouldn't agree with Planning is

1562
02:14:58.880 --> 02:15:03.479
like Calvinists reform epistemoality. Fair enough, fair enough. I was more so

1563
02:15:03.600 --> 02:15:09.800
wondering that, you know, if
we were to if we were to argue

1564
02:15:11.239 --> 02:15:16.560
for this, you know, metaphysical
position and prove that the Christian you know

1565
02:15:18.079 --> 02:15:20.079
metaphysics by the way, By the
way, let me be more precise.

1566
02:15:20.760 --> 02:15:26.119
I would agree with Planting that it
is it makes sense to say belief in

1567
02:15:26.159 --> 02:15:28.039
God is properly basic. I believe
that. I think that makes sense,

1568
02:15:30.239 --> 02:15:33.560
But I don't agree with all of
Like there's other Calvinist things that come along

1569
02:15:33.680 --> 02:15:35.640
with Planting as a point that I
would disagree with, but I do think,

1570
02:15:35.800 --> 02:15:39.479
I mean, he makes some of
the same arguments we make against natural

1571
02:15:39.520 --> 02:15:45.560
theology. So sorry, I just
headed a bit of a distraction there,

1572
02:15:46.640 --> 02:15:52.600
right, So if that's the yeah, because because I was more so like

1573
02:15:52.920 --> 02:15:58.239
pointing to you know, we have
the metaphysical argument for this is just you

1574
02:15:58.319 --> 02:16:01.520
know, kind of assuming we've gone
further in the argument. We have the

1575
02:16:01.640 --> 02:16:07.560
metaphysical backing for Christian you know,
apologetics, we have the epistemological backing for

1576
02:16:07.880 --> 02:16:11.720
Christian apologetics. And now we want
to you know, tell people, Okay,

1577
02:16:11.800 --> 02:16:15.640
well, then how does the world
work now? Right? Would we

1578
02:16:16.279 --> 02:16:18.119
assume a kind of position where we
would say, okay, well, we

1579
02:16:18.239 --> 02:16:22.800
have the warrant for our beliefs,
such as the way that Planting in puts

1580
02:16:22.840 --> 02:16:28.640
it, where we assume the function
of the mind is you know, accurate

1581
02:16:30.000 --> 02:16:33.840
and kind of like the way God
intended. Yeah, right? Would this

1582
02:16:33.040 --> 02:16:37.120
be faulty or would this be fair
to say that? Okay, once we've

1583
02:16:37.159 --> 02:16:41.399
established the paradigm, we can get
into this kind of nitty gritty of epistemology.

1584
02:16:41.799 --> 02:16:45.040
No, I think I think that's
the line of argument that I usually

1585
02:16:45.079 --> 02:16:48.959
go. Yeah. In other words, if God exists, that the Christian

1586
02:16:50.000 --> 02:16:52.600
world view is true, it makes
sense that our mind operates in a certain

1587
02:16:52.639 --> 02:16:56.399
way, that we have the faculty
of reasoning, remain God's image. We

1588
02:16:56.479 --> 02:16:58.200
can reason after God, we can. I mean that that's the line of

1589
02:16:58.280 --> 02:17:01.760
argument. I just don't use the
term properly basic, but I don't.

1590
02:17:01.079 --> 02:17:05.920
Yeah, I would agree with that
line of argument. Yeah, that's perfectly

1591
02:17:05.120 --> 02:17:09.680
understandable. Yeah, okay, great, those are pretty much the questions I

1592
02:17:09.760 --> 02:17:16.760
had. And just a little short
notice about people in like college and stuff

1593
02:17:16.840 --> 02:17:22.600
like that, a lot of people
are kind of seeing things for how they

1594
02:17:22.639 --> 02:17:26.200
are nowadays. They're not really falling
for the old tricks anymore. Yeah.

1595
02:17:26.600 --> 02:17:33.120
I talk to a lot of atheists
and like liberals and stuff like that who

1596
02:17:33.079 --> 02:17:37.920
don't even really hold their positions as
much as they claim to hold. And

1597
02:17:39.200 --> 02:17:43.079
I've got professors who are extremely Christian, who are publicly Christian, and who

1598
02:17:43.159 --> 02:17:50.399
are leading their philosophy departments and other
departments. So things are looking up.

1599
02:17:50.440 --> 02:17:54.159
And I live in the most liberal
part of Canada, so interesting. Yeah,

1600
02:17:54.879 --> 02:18:00.399
things are not as dark as they
may seem to listen worried. So

1601
02:18:00.520 --> 02:18:05.159
yeah, glory to God. Thinks
we'll be better in the future. Well,

1602
02:18:05.239 --> 02:18:07.200
thank you for those positive words.
That's good to hear. Man,

1603
02:18:07.280 --> 02:18:16.239
appreciate that YouTube, man, thank
you. Let's see Sapphire. What's up

1604
02:18:16.319 --> 02:18:35.959
so far? You gotta are you
there? You look you look like you're

1605
02:18:37.040 --> 02:18:43.559
unmuted. You look like you look
like yo mama, unmuted. I guess

1606
02:18:43.600 --> 02:18:46.639
you're not there. If you want
to come back in and try again,

1607
02:18:46.719 --> 02:18:56.760
you can't, uh icono, Matt, Hey, what's up man? What's

1608
02:18:56.840 --> 02:19:00.760
up doing? What's on your mind? Yeah? I just had a quick

1609
02:19:00.879 --> 02:19:03.000
question. Was wondering if you're looking
forward to the new Beetle Juice coming out

1610
02:19:03.040 --> 02:19:07.920
this year. We were at Universal
Studios when we were in Los Angeles and

1611
02:19:07.959 --> 02:19:09.959
I saw Beetle Juice walking around.
I was like, you know what,

1612
02:19:11.040 --> 02:19:16.159
I bet he's there to promote the
movie. I don't know is it a

1613
02:19:16.239 --> 02:19:20.600
remake or a sequel. I'm pretty
sure it's a sequel. It might be

1614
02:19:20.719 --> 02:19:26.479
good. I'm kind of iffy on
a lot of these reboots and whatnot.

1615
02:19:26.319 --> 02:19:31.239
Gotcha, gotcha. I also wanted
to shout out to you. You and

1616
02:19:31.719 --> 02:19:37.840
Kyle have been like two of my
biggest polls to orthodoxy, and my wife

1617
02:19:37.879 --> 02:19:41.360
and I are now cad the Cumans
and I just awesome show show you some

1618
02:19:41.479 --> 02:19:43.920
love and appreciation. Man, thank
you, Matt, I appreciate that.

1619
02:19:43.040 --> 02:19:46.200
Glad to hear it many years.
Man, yep, you thank you for

1620
02:19:46.280 --> 02:19:52.440
that. So how are you gonna
try again? I didn't mean to cut

1621
02:19:52.479 --> 02:19:58.319
you off that quick, man,
I sorry about that, Yes, sir,

1622
02:20:00.639 --> 02:20:05.520
miss earlier you cut out? Can
you hear me? Are you there?

1623
02:20:07.399 --> 02:20:16.159
We heard you for a second.
Are you there still? Canna hear

1624
02:20:16.200 --> 02:20:45.280
your dog? I heard you for
like two seconds, enchanted hero. Everybody's

1625
02:20:45.280 --> 02:20:50.360
having a hard time connecting now.
I don't know. Spaces are Sometimes they

1626
02:20:50.440 --> 02:20:58.479
work, sometimes they don't. Nate, what's up? Nate? Hello?

1627
02:20:58.239 --> 02:21:03.239
Hey, what's up? Heyway?
So Jay, I'm a kind of cuman

1628
02:21:03.399 --> 02:21:07.239
Is into Eastern Orthodoxy. And earlier
this week I was watching a great compliant

1629
02:21:09.520 --> 02:21:13.000
service from a monastery in West Virginia
and I don't live there. I live

1630
02:21:13.040 --> 02:21:18.440
in Texas. But anyway, in
the liturgy they said we worshiped thee Oh

1631
02:21:18.559 --> 02:21:22.799
Mother of God. And I said
it to my priest and I asked my

1632
02:21:22.920 --> 02:21:26.040
body. He said it was probably
like a translation error, And anyway,

1633
02:21:26.040 --> 02:21:28.360
I just wanted to see PII your
thoughts of that. I see father deacons

1634
02:21:28.399 --> 02:21:31.799
in here too, so maybe maybe
you can have the input or something.

1635
02:21:31.280 --> 02:21:37.760
Yeah, I think sometimes the English
translation for it doesn't distinguish veneration from worship,

1636
02:21:37.040 --> 02:21:41.559
so it's just they'll just say the
same word. But no, we

1637
02:21:41.680 --> 02:21:46.719
don't worship the Theo Tocos with the
same worship as the Trinity, right,

1638
02:21:46.840 --> 02:21:48.719
Okay, and that's what I figured
too, That's why I said it to

1639
02:21:48.840 --> 02:21:52.920
him. But anyway, all right, cool, appreciate it. Yeah,

1640
02:21:52.040 --> 02:21:58.959
good question, And I can ask
Father Deacon, but I'm assuming he would

1641
02:21:58.959 --> 02:22:01.200
agree. I don't know if you
want father digging, if you want to

1642
02:22:01.239 --> 02:22:11.440
speak, you can't. Let's see, Assistant Professor Malkisa Dick. Where'd you

1643
02:22:11.479 --> 02:22:13.879
go? No? I thought I
thought you were requesting to speak. My

1644
02:22:13.959 --> 02:22:20.799
bad. Let's see ghostitious. I'm
not trying to ignore you, but somebody

1645
02:22:20.000 --> 02:22:24.079
was somebody who had been waiting for
a long time. Here, Tye,

1646
02:22:24.360 --> 02:22:30.840
he'd been waiting for a long time. Oh yeah, sorry, yeah,

1647
02:22:30.920 --> 02:22:37.120
I agree. It's these are translationnaires, so your priest was correct. Go

1648
02:22:37.159 --> 02:22:56.600
ahead, Tye? Hey, uh
yeah, you muted all right? Goostitis

1649
02:22:58.360 --> 02:23:07.680
Hm hey uh hey, uh my
boyfriend's back. Ye, yes, sir,

1650
02:23:07.840 --> 02:23:11.760
you know I just want to say
really quick that uh, God willing

1651
02:23:11.879 --> 02:23:13.600
I'll be received as a cdcue my
church. And I just want to see,

1652
02:23:13.639 --> 02:23:16.840
like, thank you for your videos
and and as well as father nice

1653
02:23:16.840 --> 02:23:22.120
because like you guys helped me looking
to our thoughts and and like you guys

1654
02:23:22.200 --> 02:23:26.879
like com people like the best arguments
and stuff. Thanks man, I appreciate

1655
02:23:26.959 --> 02:23:28.760
that. Yeah, of course,
and really quick, you're actually the first

1656
02:23:28.799 --> 02:23:33.680
person. You're the sick in person. Pronounce my name right? Okay?

1657
02:23:33.840 --> 02:23:43.520
Thank you? Gostitious instead of superstitious? Do scared of ghosts? Zoology?

1658
02:23:45.159 --> 02:23:46.520
We got a lot of people coming
into the church this year. That's great,

1659
02:23:50.399 --> 02:23:52.840
I'm sure and God willing to be
a bunch more next year too.

1660
02:23:54.719 --> 02:24:13.760
Zoology. What's up? Man?
Another connection issue? Zoology? Are there?

1661
02:24:16.639 --> 02:24:18.399
Do you want to come back out
and come back in? I'll go

1662
02:24:18.479 --> 02:24:24.959
to you first because it's not connected. Who's this next person? Oh?

1663
02:24:26.040 --> 02:24:33.760
Hello? Yes, I just randomly
saw that there was a speaker session sure

1664
02:24:33.440 --> 02:24:41.440
being open on Twitter? Correct.
I just wanted to thank you for teaching

1665
02:24:41.520 --> 02:24:48.120
me a lot about conspiracy theory stuff
and how society has fallen since the eighteen

1666
02:24:48.200 --> 02:24:56.840
hundreds, because I appreciate that.
Yeah. Also, I really enjoyed your

1667
02:24:56.159 --> 02:25:05.040
theology videos. Thanks as well debating
other viewpoints. And I got received into

1668
02:25:05.120 --> 02:25:09.719
the church around early February. Oh
wow, okay, thank you for that

1669
02:25:11.319 --> 02:25:15.360
many years. I got a lot
of Categhumans and new converts coming in,

1670
02:25:15.479 --> 02:25:18.799
so thank you so much. Appreciate
that. That's encouraging because we get a

1671
02:25:18.840 --> 02:25:22.600
lot of hate, we get a
lot of opposition, so to hear these

1672
02:25:22.680 --> 02:25:26.200
kinds of things are very encouraging.
So take note all the people that hate

1673
02:25:26.280 --> 02:25:37.200
us so much, Like we're trying
to do good work here zoology. Hey,

1674
02:25:37.280 --> 02:25:41.440
what's up? Hey? Okay,
So I just have a question about

1675
02:25:41.719 --> 02:25:48.959
like you make the argument about normative
authority and individual sertitude, And I kind

1676
02:25:48.959 --> 02:25:52.680
of had a bit of problems because
I feel as though we like, if

1677
02:25:52.680 --> 02:25:58.879
we're going to argue for the Orthodox
position that you know, the historic Church

1678
02:25:58.000 --> 02:26:01.959
is the normative authority, we're going
to run into the same problem as the

1679
02:26:01.040 --> 02:26:07.799
protest as to justifying that. But
I guess is that asking a different a

1680
02:26:07.920 --> 02:26:13.840
question of epistemology, like individual service
of how we know something to be true

1681
02:26:15.040 --> 02:26:18.120
versus what is true by virtue of
it being true? No? No,

1682
02:26:18.239 --> 02:26:22.719
no, it's like normativity has to
do with who has the authority in history

1683
02:26:22.959 --> 02:26:31.559
to make decisions and say you ought
to believe this about church teaching versus how

1684
02:26:31.680 --> 02:26:35.559
do I as an individual have certitude
about Jesus the Trinity and what church teaching

1685
02:26:35.680 --> 02:26:39.479
is. So they're two different things. They're related, but they're two different

1686
02:26:39.559 --> 02:26:45.040
questions. One is about authority and
history, the other one is about individual

1687
02:26:45.120 --> 02:26:48.159
certitude. So they're just two different
questions and a lot of times the only

1688
02:26:48.200 --> 02:26:52.639
reason I always say this is that
a lot of times people in bad argumentation

1689
02:26:52.239 --> 02:26:58.200
conflate these. For example, Roman
Catholics will often act like the papacy can

1690
02:26:58.280 --> 02:27:01.799
give you certainitude on dogma, and
it doesn't. That's the only reason that

1691
02:27:01.879 --> 02:27:07.680
I always always talk about this.
Okay, So then what is the function

1692
02:27:07.879 --> 02:27:13.280
of normative authority If it's going it's
not really going to lead us to individual

1693
02:27:13.399 --> 02:27:18.760
certain or that that's just not its
function. Maybe I'm just confusing. I

1694
02:27:18.799 --> 02:27:22.040
have a hard time understand. That's
why I said they're related, all right,

1695
02:27:22.079 --> 02:27:26.159
So I said they're related, But
like everybody is in the same boat

1696
02:27:26.200 --> 02:27:30.360
as individuals, right, So I'm
not in it. We're all whether you're

1697
02:27:30.440 --> 02:27:33.079
Roman Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant, we're all going to be trying to

1698
02:27:33.200 --> 02:27:37.399
interpret something that will grant us the
certitude. For the Roman Catholic, it's

1699
02:27:37.479 --> 02:27:41.840
the papal writings and decisions ultimately.
For the Protestant, it's them in the

1700
02:27:41.879 --> 02:27:46.000
Bible. Ultimately, for us,
it's Orthodox. It's a multitude of things.

1701
02:27:46.600 --> 02:27:52.000
It's liturgy, it's the teacher of
the church, fathers, the councils,

1702
02:27:52.040 --> 02:27:54.879
the Bible. It all kind of
goes together. We don't have as

1703
02:27:56.000 --> 02:28:01.159
a strict a tier. There are
tiers, but they're not It's not like

1704
02:28:01.280 --> 02:28:05.399
this Roman Catholic idea that I can
draw out, like the five tiered things

1705
02:28:05.440 --> 02:28:07.680
of what you have to believe and
not and don't have to believe. It's

1706
02:28:07.719 --> 02:28:09.840
it doesn't work like they think it
does. I don't even think their system

1707
02:28:09.879 --> 02:28:16.120
even works, but they claim to
have that tiered system. But so we

1708
02:28:16.280 --> 02:28:22.479
have different means to knowing these things. And that's that's where we differ with

1709
02:28:22.639 --> 02:28:24.639
the Protestant. We don't think it's
just the Bible. We think it's these

1710
02:28:24.680 --> 02:28:28.360
other things. With the Roman Catholic, we don't think it's a papacy.

1711
02:28:28.479 --> 02:28:31.280
We think it's the history of the
Church and these other things. So,

1712
02:28:31.559 --> 02:28:35.760
but ultimately, the only thing that's
going to convince anybody is the work of

1713
02:28:35.799 --> 02:28:39.959
the Holy Spirit. There's no other
way to get there. And it's true

1714
02:28:41.000 --> 02:28:45.479
that councils and things like this can
overlap with normative authority or excuse me,

1715
02:28:45.559 --> 02:28:50.200
with existential certitude, because for example, can I look to Nicea, Will

1716
02:28:50.239 --> 02:28:54.639
that help me get individual certitude?
Yeah? But is that is good looking

1717
02:28:54.680 --> 02:29:01.000
to Nicia for example, ultimately going
to solve you know, a dispute between

1718
02:29:01.079 --> 02:29:05.239
a Roman Catholic and a protest and
Orthodox. Probably not. So it's probably

1719
02:29:05.239 --> 02:29:07.159
gonna take more than just a council. So that's why you see what I'm

1720
02:29:07.159 --> 02:29:11.879
saying, Like, there's elements in
Nicea where I could point to Canon six,

1721
02:29:11.040 --> 02:29:18.280
which basically equates the jurisdiction of Rome
to Alexandria. So where is Vatican

1722
02:29:18.399 --> 02:29:20.680
one in that? Well, you
know, okay, but that's not going

1723
02:29:20.760 --> 02:29:24.600
to alone. That's not going to
convince most Roman Catholics. So that's why

1724
02:29:24.639 --> 02:29:30.399
I'm just saying that normative authority is
a question of is there a body within

1725
02:29:30.559 --> 02:29:35.959
history that has the authority to interpret
a document? So like Father Deacon always

1726
02:29:35.959 --> 02:29:39.879
says, you've got the Constitution,
but it's not like we're all running around

1727
02:29:39.920 --> 02:29:43.040
interpreting the Constitution on our own.
The Constitution is interpreted by the Supreme Court

1728
02:29:43.399 --> 02:29:48.920
and they have the authority to enforce
that. So that's an analogy to having

1729
02:29:48.079 --> 02:29:56.559
bishops and synods with authority, right, Okay, So if I'm understanding this,

1730
02:29:56.719 --> 02:30:01.840
right, it's basically there to dative. But because of that, you

1731
02:30:01.920 --> 02:30:05.399
know, authoritative body of people,
I guess you could say it doesn't follow

1732
02:30:05.680 --> 02:30:11.479
to having like this spot on dot
of individuals. I guess it's just yeah,

1733
02:30:11.520 --> 02:30:16.280
it's two different questions, Like that
there is a historical body of people

1734
02:30:16.399 --> 02:30:22.000
with authority is a different question from
which is the right historical body of people?

1735
02:30:22.959 --> 02:30:24.920
Yeah? Okay, yeah, because
I feel like that the same problem

1736
02:30:24.959 --> 02:30:31.280
will be like, yeah, how
do we like interpretation in personal criteria is

1737
02:30:31.319 --> 02:30:37.280
always going to be an effect in
correct the correct or the body. Yeah,

1738
02:30:37.360 --> 02:30:41.280
I like it's the same issue that
the causent has, but maybe not

1739
02:30:41.520 --> 02:30:45.280
in the same Well that's why I
always say that, right, That's why

1740
02:30:45.399 --> 02:30:48.879
we always say to the Protestant so
look, if there's not normative authority,

1741
02:30:48.920 --> 02:30:54.239
and that's the Protestant position, there's
nobody who has the authority to bind anybody

1742
02:30:54.319 --> 02:31:00.639
in their conscience to an interpretation or
to an excommunication or whatever. Then Jesus

1743
02:31:00.840 --> 02:31:05.079
basically left the church very deficient.
He didn't even give the church what the

1744
02:31:05.159 --> 02:31:09.559
Supreme Court and the Constitution have right. So to me, that's a very

1745
02:31:09.600 --> 02:31:15.399
defective position by denying the existence of
normative authority in history. So it wouldn't

1746
02:31:15.399 --> 02:31:18.559
be identical to the Roman Catholic position. They would agree with us on that

1747
02:31:18.680 --> 02:31:22.399
point. Against the Protestant though,
so it would take a different course of

1748
02:31:22.479 --> 02:31:24.280
action. With debating a Roman Catholic, I would say, well, is

1749
02:31:24.360 --> 02:31:28.200
the papacy the normative authority in the
first thousand years? I don't think that

1750
02:31:28.280 --> 02:31:33.559
it is. So it depends on
the person's argument as to how I would

1751
02:31:33.639 --> 02:31:37.559
go about making that argument. But
hopefully that makes more sense. We're all

1752
02:31:37.600 --> 02:31:41.920
on the same boat though at the
end of the day. So where we

1753
02:31:41.040 --> 02:31:46.479
disagree is the means that are used
by the Holy Spirit. Okay, yeah,

1754
02:31:46.559 --> 02:31:52.360
so we're arguing for the means,
right, we're for We're basically contending

1755
02:31:52.559 --> 02:31:58.200
with rival means, and my approach
is typically to point out those means that

1756
02:31:58.360 --> 02:32:01.760
they have are failed means. They
don't work. Yeah, okay, thank

1757
02:32:01.799 --> 02:32:05.120
you so much. That Yeah,
those are great questions. Yeah, it

1758
02:32:05.280 --> 02:32:09.840
is a It is a confusing thing
because a lot of times Rouman Catholics make

1759
02:32:09.920 --> 02:32:13.520
this bad argument where they're like,
the Pope gives a certitude and all you

1760
02:32:13.639 --> 02:32:18.280
Protestants don't got no certitude. Ahaha, And then it's like we just watched

1761
02:32:18.319 --> 02:32:26.680
the video where Tim's like, I
don't know what supremacy means and like I'm

1762
02:32:26.680 --> 02:32:30.959
waiting for a counsel to do that. That's my impression of tent But well,

1763
02:32:31.000 --> 02:32:33.799
I thought that's what the point about
it can one was. But anyway,

1764
02:32:33.920 --> 02:32:48.479
let's see next up Richard, what's
up? Shout out to BMX nineteen

1765
02:32:48.520 --> 02:32:52.319
sixty six cents fifteen dollars. Thank
you so much, BEMX, appreciate that.

1766
02:32:52.440 --> 02:32:56.959
Ricky says, no, we already
we already read Ricky, Ricky,

1767
02:32:56.920 --> 02:33:05.239
did you want to talk? Richard? Get on immune? Uh? Richard,

1768
02:33:05.840 --> 02:33:07.959
you're on, dude, you want
to on mute or you don't have

1769
02:33:07.040 --> 02:33:11.239
to do one yet. You just
you just be muted if you want.

1770
02:33:11.280 --> 02:33:16.399
I guess all right, we'll move
on. Uh Yaru, what's up?

1771
02:33:16.440 --> 02:33:24.760
Yah? Yeah. By the way, if you guys missed it, we

1772
02:33:24.879 --> 02:33:28.760
did a big intense breakdown of the
big events. I'm sure that YouTube's not

1773
02:33:28.840 --> 02:33:33.159
going to be able to allow a
lot of talk about that. You can

1774
02:33:33.239 --> 02:33:39.600
go to my Twitter feed and I
was on with Jack Pasoviac and Alex breaking

1775
02:33:39.680 --> 02:33:43.879
down everything yesterday in a big hour
discussion. And then I went on Patrick

1776
02:33:43.920 --> 02:33:48.399
Henningson's Twitter space which has like eighty
thousand views now as well, breaking down

1777
02:33:48.440 --> 02:33:52.280
the events from yesterday. So go
check out those two things if you missed

1778
02:33:52.319 --> 02:33:56.559
it. I thought we did pretty
good breakdowns. Yaru, what's up?

1779
02:33:58.360 --> 02:34:05.840
Hey, what's up? So?
I have a two questions, okay,

1780
02:34:05.719 --> 02:34:11.840
for it seems like sometimes when you
talked about Catholicism, it seems like you

1781
02:34:11.360 --> 02:34:16.000
implied that they cannot be coherent to
us, or that they must be foundationalists.

1782
02:34:18.840 --> 02:34:20.479
Is that right? Yeah? I
don't see how you could be,

1783
02:34:20.760 --> 02:34:28.840
given what's in a lot of the
dogmatic decrees about like evidentialism in terms of

1784
02:34:28.920 --> 02:34:35.479
like Vatican wand or the way Leo
writes and is encyclicals. Uh okay,

1785
02:34:35.120 --> 02:34:39.159
I thought the incyclicals weren't dogmatic.
I could be wrong. No, that's

1786
02:34:39.239 --> 02:34:43.879
not true. It really depends on
what's being said, because, for example,

1787
02:34:43.920 --> 02:34:50.959
if the pope is writing about faith
and morals, and if it's something

1788
02:34:50.040 --> 02:34:54.719
that the Church is quote universally held, it would be part of universal ordinary

1789
02:34:54.760 --> 02:34:58.559
magistrum and would be dogma. But
you see the tricky point there is that.

1790
02:35:00.120 --> 02:35:05.280
Okay, but what are those things? Right? So so it's it's

1791
02:35:05.399 --> 02:35:07.319
ambiguous, is the point. But
no, the fact that it's in cyclical

1792
02:35:07.399 --> 02:35:11.399
does not mean that it's not dogmatic. In fact, some in cyclicals,

1793
02:35:11.920 --> 02:35:18.639
many Roman Catholics argue, are dogmatic, like Humanivite or pastor returnus that becomes

1794
02:35:18.680 --> 02:35:22.200
part of Vatican one. I mean, there's a bunch of these that could

1795
02:35:22.280 --> 02:35:28.959
be quote argued or dogmatic. Okay, gosha, what exactly maybe you already

1796
02:35:28.959 --> 02:35:33.079
answer this in different words, But
what exactly makes a foundational is because of

1797
02:35:33.120 --> 02:35:35.639
the evidentialism. Yeah, I mean
I think those things go. I mean,

1798
02:35:35.760 --> 02:35:41.040
I know that technically they're not identical, but uh, it would be

1799
02:35:41.280 --> 02:35:45.920
very odd to I mean again,
like you know, the official philosophy of

1800
02:35:45.959 --> 02:35:50.319
the Romancolic church's tonism, and we
know that that's what permeates all of the

1801
02:35:50.399 --> 02:35:56.799
medieval stuff, you know, all
the way up until what's Leo's and cyclical

1802
02:35:56.879 --> 02:36:01.440
on uh on Tomism. I'm trying
to think of the name of it.

1803
02:36:01.520 --> 02:36:05.040
I'm going blank. At the point
right now, But I mean Leo's and

1804
02:36:05.079 --> 02:36:09.959
Cyclical says Tomism is the official philosophy
of the church. So the official philosophy

1805
02:36:09.000 --> 02:36:16.000
Roman Catholicism is classical foundationalism. Now, could a person theoretically try to make

1806
02:36:16.239 --> 02:36:20.959
a Roman Catholic system as coherentist.
I don't know how they could, but

1807
02:36:20.000 --> 02:36:26.760
I guess people could try that.
Okay, gotcha. So I think I

1808
02:36:26.879 --> 02:36:30.159
also have another issue. I mean, you would basically be saying that Thomas

1809
02:36:30.280 --> 02:36:33.360
and everybody got their their epistemology wrong, which would just I mean, he's

1810
02:36:33.479 --> 02:36:35.920
like a saint, right, he
could be wrong, but he's not just

1811
02:36:37.000 --> 02:36:39.719
a saying his philosophy is the official
philosophy of the Roman Catholic Church according to

1812
02:36:43.840 --> 02:36:46.719
what's I'm just going blank on the
on Leo's and Cyclical. He might in

1813
02:36:46.760 --> 02:36:52.559
the chat. Remember Leo's and Cyclical
on Tomism anyway, go ahead, Yeah,

1814
02:36:52.959 --> 02:36:56.680
I think on a separate issue.
Okay, I don't exactly see the

1815
02:36:56.840 --> 02:37:03.520
issue with foundationalism. It seems like
we can have a self evident believe in

1816
02:37:03.639 --> 02:37:07.600
regards to the cogito or the law
of non contradiction. Okay, well,

1817
02:37:07.600 --> 02:37:09.159
I mean, like, as I
pointed out in the debate with Trent.

1818
02:37:09.360 --> 02:37:16.280
I mean, the cogito has famously
been critiqued by many philosophers for assuming many

1819
02:37:16.360 --> 02:37:20.000
things that are not proven and therefore
it's not self evident. I mean.

1820
02:37:20.120 --> 02:37:24.239
Kant critiqued it that it assumes time
determinants by saying that thinking is occurring,

1821
02:37:24.360 --> 02:37:28.680
occurring as a time determinant. Bertrand
Russell critiqued it as a non sequitor.

1822
02:37:30.399 --> 02:37:33.680
And then there's the criterion problem of
Chisholm. If we say that some things

1823
02:37:33.719 --> 02:37:37.440
are self evident and therefore other things
are not, then we actually have a

1824
02:37:37.799 --> 02:37:48.159
prior criterion of what is and is
not foundational, and therefore it's not self

1825
02:37:48.159 --> 02:37:54.159
evident because it's a more foundational criterion. Yeah. So, for it seems

1826
02:37:54.200 --> 02:38:00.040
like the Kant one, and I
won't get too too much into the so

1827
02:38:00.120 --> 02:38:03.719
it seems like he affirms something with
the unity of a perception, which is

1828
02:38:03.760 --> 02:38:07.760
something very similar to the cogito.
But none of that has anything to do

1829
02:38:07.920 --> 02:38:11.639
with whether the cogito itself relies on
a time determinant, which would mean that

1830
02:38:11.719 --> 02:38:16.959
it's not self evident if it's relying
on unjustified things like time. Sure,

1831
02:38:16.040 --> 02:38:20.040
su Sure. So let's say I
have I say, the proposition that I

1832
02:38:20.159 --> 02:38:24.120
am having an experience right now having
might be a time, like a temporal

1833
02:38:24.239 --> 02:38:26.159
notion. Sure, I'm fine with
that, but I don't see how that's

1834
02:38:26.239 --> 02:38:31.520
not a proposition that we can't that's
not self evident. We might have to

1835
02:38:31.559 --> 02:38:33.840
presuppose time metaphysically. Sure, but
yeah, so if it's relying on something

1836
02:38:35.159 --> 02:38:37.959
we already had this debate. You
already asked me this exact same question.

1837
02:38:37.079 --> 02:38:41.520
Not trying to be rude, but
the fact that, okay, time.

1838
02:38:41.479 --> 02:38:46.360
So what Descartes wants is the most
foundational truth that's self evident, that's not

1839
02:38:46.479 --> 02:38:48.959
relying on something else. If the
proposition or the argument is relying on the

1840
02:38:50.040 --> 02:38:52.639
existence of time, which has not
been proven yet, then it's relying on

1841
02:38:52.719 --> 02:38:56.680
something else. So we might be
relying on the metaphysical notion of time,

1842
02:38:56.840 --> 02:39:00.920
but the time is not doing the
just victoria work. It doesn't matter.

1843
02:39:01.000 --> 02:39:03.200
It's still relying on something else.
So it's not self evident. It's a

1844
02:39:03.280 --> 02:39:09.200
metaphysical principle that's not yet been established
to make the argument that thinking is occurring.

1845
02:39:09.760 --> 02:39:13.200
Okay, So I have the proposition
in front of me, I am

1846
02:39:13.280 --> 02:39:16.040
having an experience right now. I
just want to know if that's a self

1847
02:39:16.079 --> 02:39:20.239
evident believe. Well, you can
call it self evident, but that doesn't

1848
02:39:20.319 --> 02:39:22.200
make it so because you call it
self evident. Because what's an eye?

1849
02:39:22.360 --> 02:39:26.360
We haven't even determined that what it's. It's assuming linguistics and grammar. You

1850
02:39:26.399 --> 02:39:35.680
haven't proven grammar yet. I don't
know what proving grammar. It doesn't have

1851
02:39:35.799 --> 02:39:37.920
to do metaphysical work. It's still
assuming things that are not self evident.

1852
02:39:39.159 --> 02:39:45.079
It's relying on other things. So
you're confusing categories. And we've already been

1853
02:39:45.120 --> 02:39:46.559
through this exact same conversation with this
guy in the past, So I'm not

1854
02:39:46.600 --> 02:39:50.840
doing this whole rehearsing again. So
he brought all this exact same thing to

1855
02:39:50.920 --> 02:39:56.479
a previous open for him, And
if I keep going, I'll lose my

1856
02:39:56.559 --> 02:39:58.440
temper. Steven, what's up?
And then everybodelse have me? So I'm

1857
02:39:58.479 --> 02:40:01.200
not going to give I'm not going
to give a place to people saying that.

1858
02:40:01.280 --> 02:40:07.159
I mean, when we've already had
this exact same conversation, Stephen,

1859
02:40:07.200 --> 02:40:13.440
what's up? By the way,
the tomistic and cyclical is Attorney Patras.

1860
02:40:15.079 --> 02:40:20.360
So there's pasta attornis, which is
about Vatican One and people infallibility. It's

1861
02:40:20.600 --> 02:40:24.159
part of Vatican One. By the
way, it's not the totality Vatican.

1862
02:40:24.479 --> 02:40:26.440
Everybody Roman Catholics thinks that Pastor at
Turnis is Vatican One. No, there's

1863
02:40:26.440 --> 02:40:33.840
other things in there that's part of
it. And then Attorney Patrice is Lee

1864
02:40:33.879 --> 02:40:37.440
of the thirteenth in cyclical that Tomism
is the official philosophy of the Romancolic Church.

1865
02:40:37.520 --> 02:40:43.360
So Stephen, what's up? And
by the way, can anybody point

1866
02:40:43.399 --> 02:40:48.000
to a Roman Catholic who doesn't teach
some form of foundationalism revidential? I've never

1867
02:40:48.079 --> 02:40:50.760
seen it. Maybe there is one, but I'm not going to listen to

1868
02:40:50.799 --> 02:40:56.120
the Roman Catholics bark at me about
this until they produce one example of it.

1869
02:40:56.200 --> 02:41:07.200
And they do this all the time. All right, Richard wants to

1870
02:41:07.239 --> 02:41:26.879
try again. What's up? H
you gotta I mute man? If you're

1871
02:41:26.920 --> 02:41:28.159
not gonna what'd you even request to
speak? If you don't want to mute

1872
02:41:28.159 --> 02:41:48.559
man? Crypto? H m hey, jay, can you hear me?

1873
02:41:48.680 --> 02:41:52.000
Yes, sir, hey, I
just wanted to say thank you and joined

1874
02:41:52.000 --> 02:41:56.559
the other people who were you know, same, thank you for your help

1875
02:41:56.639 --> 02:42:00.200
into coming into Orthodoxy. Uh,
my daughter, And now you're gonna get

1876
02:42:00.280 --> 02:42:03.559
baptized on April sixth. Well,
we're very much looking forward to that.

1877
02:42:05.600 --> 02:42:11.559
Thank you, thank you, And
you've been very instrumental in helping me change

1878
02:42:11.639 --> 02:42:18.600
my mindset set from not being a
Protestant to coming into Orthodoxy. So God

1879
02:42:18.639 --> 02:42:22.840
bless you. Thank you. Yeah, it seems like the trend is moving.

1880
02:42:22.879 --> 02:42:24.239
It seemed like in the last few
years there was a lot of Roman

1881
02:42:24.280 --> 02:42:28.799
Catholics converting, and now it seems
like more and more it's Protestants converting.

1882
02:42:28.879 --> 02:42:31.040
Everywhere I go live events, it's
like everybody's a Protestant convoy, which is

1883
02:42:31.120 --> 02:42:35.040
great. I'm not but I think
that it seems like we've maybe clean house

1884
02:42:35.120 --> 02:42:39.600
of the Roman Catholics that are willing
to I mean, if any Roman Catholics

1885
02:42:39.639 --> 02:42:41.239
are left, it's like they're they're
the holdouts, and it's like nothing.

1886
02:42:41.479 --> 02:42:46.840
I mean, Francis is going to
have to like grow horns and you know,

1887
02:42:46.000 --> 02:42:50.280
spit blood and before people will start
questioning. But for me, it

1888
02:42:50.399 --> 02:42:52.479
was a lot of ignorance, you
know, growing up, I was just

1889
02:42:52.760 --> 02:42:58.159
really unaware of the Orthodox Church.
Oh me too, I mean I was

1890
02:42:58.239 --> 02:43:01.159
aware of some of the art,
you know, because I went to art

1891
02:43:01.239 --> 02:43:09.079
school, but just like the actual
Christianity of it. I was totally oblivious,

1892
02:43:09.719 --> 02:43:15.920
has no clue at all. Absolutely, thank you, good questions.

1893
02:43:18.399 --> 02:43:22.040
All right, Uh, we're gonna
call it a night, guys, Thank

1894
02:43:22.079 --> 02:43:24.520
you so much. A lot of
fun again. Go check out the big

1895
02:43:24.680 --> 02:43:30.559
hour long breakdown that we did of
the thing, the event on my Twitter.

1896
02:43:31.600 --> 02:43:33.719
I'll put that in the link for
you guys here if you want.

1897
02:43:33.879 --> 02:43:37.920
If you don't, if you're not
following me on x please do so.

1898
02:43:37.559 --> 02:43:43.000
A lot of good a lot of
good content that we post there. Some

1899
02:43:43.159 --> 02:43:46.000
things we can post there that we
can't post here. So there's that.

1900
02:43:46.600 --> 02:43:50.239
You can see my breakdown to that
big event on my you scroll down a

1901
02:43:50.280 --> 02:44:01.040
little bit. Let's see we got
we got some memes, and then we

1902
02:44:01.200 --> 02:44:05.680
got freaking I gotta get rid of
this. I can't even look at destiny

1903
02:44:05.719 --> 02:44:13.600
O this destiny thing off of here. Yeah, you can go check out

1904
02:44:13.760 --> 02:44:20.639
this right here if you missed it. Yeah, you like how nobody got

1905
02:44:20.719 --> 02:44:24.799
mad. There was nothing uncivil tonight. I exited the situation before I was

1906
02:44:24.840 --> 02:44:28.479
gonna start getting he's too mean.
Look look at him, we got him,

1907
02:44:28.479 --> 02:44:35.760
he's mean. I'm not even gonna
let people have the opportunity occasions of

1908
02:44:35.840 --> 02:44:41.200
meanness. You won't even get occasions
of meanness anymore. All Right, thank

1909
02:44:41.239 --> 02:44:45.520
you guys. Everybody having good night, and we'll pick back up. I'm

1910
02:44:45.600 --> 02:44:52.360
liking this every day streaming every day
show. I'm motivated, I'm in the

1911
02:44:52.440 --> 02:44:56.319
mood for every day. By the
way, we're coming back tomorrow night with

1912
02:44:56.639 --> 02:45:03.200
Luigi. We're doing a review of
his debate with Voice of Reason or whatever

1913
02:45:03.239 --> 02:45:09.000
that guy's name is, right,
the Cheech and Chong that he debated over

1914
02:45:09.079 --> 02:45:13.200
there on Michael Lofton's channel. We're
going to be doing an analysis of that

1915
02:45:13.319 --> 02:45:18.319
debate with Luigi tomorrow night, so
look for that. It's gonna be fun.

1916
02:45:18.399 --> 02:45:18.200
Everybody, have a good night.