Made a decision a face sunny sun on. I had vision n what's up
everybody, We have a very special guest in studio today. Step you want
to introduce your brother, Well you just did it. Okay. My brother
is here wearing a T shirt that I bought him that says World's most Okayist
brother. That's the world's okayist brother. That says my brother, Michael Wilder.
Hello, haw, it is Cherry Today. Very excited, longtime listener,
first time arriving. There you go. So I we had a we
had a guest fallout, yes, last minute. But I've been wanting my
brother to come on the podcast for years. I think I thought of like,
get his side of the story. Yeah, totally, of all the
stories that I've told about you get your side, defend your defend myself.
It's time. I brought receipts. But he's working. He's a big work
He's a big working man. What do you do, Like, I work
in reality TV. I'm an executive producer of reality television. What exactly is
a reality TV? It's TV that they don't have to pay for writers.
Okay, yeah, he went there. Yeah, he works on tell like,
tell her your your specialty. My specialty is big families nice. So
I did outdoughtered. I don't know if you know outdoors, but it's a
family with quintuplet girls. Oh that is outdaughter. Yes, it's not about
daughters who are coming out of the closet, which would have been a good
title too, and it's I was on that for like five seasons running that,
and then the network was like, you've done six kids, let's do
because they have an older sister, let's have you do a show with fourteen
kids. So I was doing doubling down with the Doricos, which is they
have twins and triplets and quintuplets and more twins and oh my god. Yeah.
Do they believing birth control? No, they love them babies. Yeah.
Are they trying to have more always? Yeah? Wow yes. But
it's not like a duggers situation. It's not like religious based. No,
they're not religious based. Okay, they just love having them based. They
just the dad loves to have. They're all the kids are named with the
letter D because his name's Dion. So all the kids are Dacian and Derek,
Derek and Dawson and Denico and yeah wow yeah, Denico di Rico,
Denico di Rico. That's crazy. Well, at least it's better than George
Foreman, who named all of his kids George True. And it's so funny
because my ex would make fun of people that always had the same He was
telling Jimmy Kimmel, you know those families that always have to have the same
letter to correspond, you know, to match or whatever. And Jimmy's like,
yeah, you mean like my parents Joan and jim and me, Jimmy,
Jonathan and Jill, like us talking about us. And I was like,
oh, yeah, exactly. But yeah, I've always been jealous of
these families that have so many siblings. I always thought that might be fun,
you know, it's chaotic though it's okay, yeah, but it also
puts my parenting to shame at times, because I remember what I when I
was working on outdoughdered and they had five like one and a half year olds,
and I'd watch bedtime and they'd all go sleep, and then I think
about how my one kid would stall for hours on end, and I was
like, well, why can they do five and I can't do one?
Right? And the dad was like, because we have no choice. Which
I get, but at the same time, I just think it'd be yes,
hillacious, Yeah, it does sound hard. How old are they now,
like or how old were they when they were What were their age ranges
for the Daurricos or for the for the Outdaughtered. So they're they're now,
God, they're one year younger than my daughter. So they're now eight.
Oh yeah, so but they we I jumped on the show when they were
one and a half. And what do you do on the shows? Like,
so you're there with the families. So I'm there with the families,
and then I go back to post and run posts. So I go,
I go back and forth basically figure out storylines that we're going to tell and
then film that stuff and then the back end kind of makes sense of all
the crap we shoot. Yeah, oh that's pretty cool. Yeah that sounds
fun. It is, it's it's it's a lot. It's fun. You
know, it's a lot of storytelling. Yeah, it's a lot of figuring
stuff out because like it's just average people, right right right, you know,
so we kind of have to help make stuff happens. Now, after
you finished the last season of The Daurricos, you did another job in the
meantime, but it's not airing yet, right, it's not airing yet.
Yes, and tell us about that. Uh, it's nice. Don't look
alike by the way, little but not really. We have a different dad.
And I've heard about the mom. Heard about your mom. Don't worry,
she'll never lest your study. Yes, she's in the car though,
because we're going to bring her in in a second. I said, great,
Yeah, Stephanie next week Stephanie's mom. Yeah, oh my god.
So, uh, tell us about that show. I did a little person
wrestling show. Interesting, like a little person there's two big components to that.
It's like you could just I did a little person show or I did
a wrestling show. But it's like I did a little person wrestling show.
Yes, little person wrestling, little people wrestling show. But you loved it,
right, Oh I loved it. Yeah. They were like fantastic characters.
They were really cool. It was like they were athletes. Yeah.
So they were already doing wrestling and then somebody decides to do a show.
Yes about Yes, so they're already established and they go around the country put
it on matches. Wow, girls and guys, girls and guys. Yes,
now is it girls against girls and guys against guys. Yes, there
used to be like a couple match, like the boyfriend and girlfriend would go
against each other, but now it's girls versus girls, guys versut guys,
and are some of them married to each other? And all that. The
one couple is they're I think they're not married, but they're eventually gonna get
married. They have a kid together, and then that's nice. Yeah,
there's no more relationships, but yeah it's and is there a kid a little
person? No? Interesting? Yeah, so she's puttering around, she's you
know, she's getting tall. Wow, yeah, like taller than them pretty
much. Yeah, I mean it's crazy. Yeah yeah, but watching them,
like like athletically, they're doing stuff. So I went in the ring
because the trainer, who's average sized, he was always trying to get us
to go in the ring to show us because we'd be like, hey,
why don't you do this again? And he's like, you know that hurts
him, Like we know, but we're trying to film the show. So
he's like, why don't you guys get in the ring? And I was
like everyone was like no. And then on the last day, I was
climbing around inside the ring when no one was around, and he came in
and he's like, can I can I give you one bump, which is
to knock you down on your you know, on your back. And I
was like, okay, why not? So he did it. I have
the video, but he did it in slow motion. You can see my
soul leaving my body as I hit the mat and then I got up and
I was like, He's like, wasn't that was that bad? I was
like, Oh, it wasn't that bad. The next day I thought,
goes in a car wreck? Really, Oh god, that's kind of brutal.
Yes, well, you got to figure out how to land so you
don't hurt yourself. He told me to breathe out, but then he didn't
tell me to make sure that my neck didn't flop against the only gave me
a little bit of advice, right right, But he was so excited to
do it. So wow. I remember when I was doing parental discretion and
I had to I got in the octagon or what like. It was an
ultimate fighting kind of thing and they had somebody who was gonna and I had
to get in the ring and like put a mouthguarden and it was no joke.
It was terrible. And then she pinned me on the floor and had
me in a choke hold, and I was thought I was going to die.
For a second. I was like, well, when she doesn't know
that I can't. I literally couldn't breathe. And I was like, I
can't breathe and then she let me go. But serious, if you say
you can't breathe, you can breathe. Though. That's why I saw my
kids. When I'm tickling them, they say you can't breathe, It's like,
you can breathe, so right, that's true, right, so you
turn blue. I'm not going to stop right right. So you you have
a thirteen year old and a nine year old and their names no, I'm
just kidding, Emerson and Beckett, Yes, and the cutest names. Yeah.
We sort of just I don't know how we came up with them.
We just to keyt on them. Beckett was I always wanted to do Beckett
and then convince my wife into that, and then at a certain point she
started changing her mind. But then when she started calling her talking to her
belly and saying Beckett, I was like, great, we're set there.
And then Emerson we couldn't agree on because I wanted Ava. And then right
before she was going to give births, she was like, what are we
naming this baby? And I was like, We'll do Emerson. Wow.
I liked Emerson. I like Emerson's defensive Roquel. I was she I think
she had pitched me the name, and I was like, oh, that's
really cute. And I think she's like, Michael doesn't like it, and
I was like, he'll come around. I liked it. By the way,
Michael is like one of my favorite male names, and Raquel is my
ultimate favorite female name. I love that name, Raquel. I wanted to
name Natalia Raquel, but I got and they called it. They call her
Rocky I think cute, or her mom calls her rick. Yes for some
reason, Ricky rick Rick. Yeah, I like it. So my brother
and I raised together, Yes, because he my mom had him. But
I was already seven. So what's the age difference? Seven years? Okay?
Got it? Seven years and five days? Yes, yes, so
that day is on July fifthies July tenth, oh, okay, days make
a difference. The other siblings, though, you guys don't talk to we
have one young well, you have a lot of other siblings, but I
have one younger sibling. Where we have one younger sibling, that's she's two
and a half years younger than me. Yeah, no, we don't speak
to her because when so when I stopped having a relationship with my mother and
stepfather, my brother had already not had a relationship with them for like a
year, and it so it's almost like we all got a divorce and then
like my sister got them in the divorce, right, yeah, we got
custody or icy Yeah, she just sort of globbed over I guess globed over
there or sort of not sided because there was no siding. I didn't just
once it happened, I just never spoke to her again. So Icye and
you Stephanie just already didn't wasn't didn't No, I mean once once my brother
wasn't wasn't talking to them. I was very how do I put this,
I was having my own major issues that had nothing even to do with his
issues. But then I was, of course protective. We were all having
issues. And then remember, I mean, it doesn't matter, we can
tell this part of the story. There was my brother received a letter certified
mail. Yeah, twelve was it twelve or sixteen pages? Something insane amount
of pages? I think one patreon. Many years ago, I read some
of the letter and people complained because it went on to too long. I
was like, well, it's hard to distill it down just one sentiment,
so I think we are he already hadn't been talking to him, right,
Yes, because I got that letter. I got that letter New Year's Eve
of whenever, whenever the fallout happened, when the fall that happened with me
and my parents, I was kind of like, well, that's it.
And I told my wife. I was like, that's it. We're never
going to speak again, and she's like, what, how's that possible?
Like, I just just knowing the personalities involved. And then yeah, the
last thing I got, well, I got that letter and then I get
emails later, but that letter was, yeah, came on that New Year's
Eve and what can you tell us? What in a nutshell? Remind us
what the letter was? The letter was basically telling me what a bad son
I was, with examples and stuff like that. I don't remember it that
well because I only read it once and then I handed it to Steff and
then she took it and has been you know, reading it, and we
used to have a reading, an annual reading to remind ourselves of how insane
it was. It was very mean. It was like a character assassination and
something to know about my brother. He's like the kindest, he's a mensch.
Yeah, yes, he has the biggest heart. You can tell.
He's a good guy. He's funny and kind and like a nice person,
like a genuinely like nice person who cares about people. And this letter was
so like, what who are you talking about? Like you and my brother
and I always like through the years, like I just don't. Here's the
thing. My stepfather is a grudge holder. He's litigious. He likes to
be in fights with people. That's what gives him like a charge. And
my brother and I have talked about this, you know a few times.
But he also had a terrible upbringing, our stepfather, my stepfather, But
the letter came from him. The letter came from him, but I feel
like it was ghost written by my mom. Well, she definitely helped.
She did, because there's some big words in there. God yeah, now
I remember, yeah, And it's funny that you're saying that now because when
we were reading the letter. I mean, Steph did a couple. She
was like, well, that part's true, and that part's true, and
he's got a point that I remember that part right right. I was like,
let's not be hasty, just throw it all away. It's feedback.
I like it edited, you know, just someone changed a few things,
right, constructive feedback, right, you know, we all have to be
open to that sometimes. I remember there was a point where he was mad
because he had he was wearing like a bowler hat. What was that hat
for my wedding? He had this crazy hat that he wanted to wear and
my in laws didn't want him to wear in the pictures, and everybody was
fighting about everything, and I was like, I didn't care if he wore
the hat or not. But they asked for some pictures without, not that
my in laws were ever going to take pictures of him and put them in
the album, but so I asked him, you know, could you do
a few pictures without? And that was in the letter because he was like,
you should have been honored that me and my hat made it to the
wedding. And I never even invited his hat, like his hat was a
plus one that we know one of those. Wow, Well he took a
lot of pride in he has never worn a suit. He called it a
monkey suit. Remember, he was like, I wasn't you wanted me to
wear a monkey suit? And he did not want to wear He never ever
wore a suit in his whole life. He's like a you know, what
do you call it? Like an anti anti establishment guy, you know,
rage against the machine. Yes, and that included he didn't want to have
jobs or people ever telling him what to do. But and but his big
thing was like, but we needed to respect him. There's a lot of
like you have to respect me, and what I say disorder? How do
you think? Yeah? Yeah, what a match? The ails two seem
like your mom and your stepdad. Yeah. But then the other weird thing
is that you got a thing. You got a beautiful pictures in the mail.
Yes, So I wanted to know what you thought about that, Michael.
I remember when Stephanie told us about this. Yeah, yeah, well
tell us what you got? Well what I got? So in the mail
I walked out of my house and there was a package for my dad.
Now I haven't heard from my dad in five years and or no longer,
right, sixteen, I've lost track. No, no, it's been like
sixteen years because I haven't. I haven't talked to this since I was two
and she's turning nineteen. Yeah, I had, so I hadn't heard from
him, accepted in an email. I heard an email from him in two
thousand and six or something, so that's that's my last contact with him.
And then there was this package from him, and I was like, oh
no, I mean, like, am I being sued or I honestly was
concerned. So I just left it there for I had to take my daughter
to Ninja class. I was like, I do not want to open this
and then have to go. And so when I got home, I opened
it up and it was sheets, sheets and sheets. My dad's a fantastic
photographer, and it was all these pictures of me as a baby and a
toddler and it was like, I mean, it threw me for a loop
because I don't have many, you know, we had this big break.
I don't have any pictures from my childhood, like I have one or two.
There's one picture of me and Steph as young, when we're young,
and it looks like Elbie and my son Beckett at their age could look exactly
like that, but there's there's only a couple of pictures I have. Suddenly
I had like a flashback to that time, and it it threw me like
because I was like, why is he sending this to me? And what's
going on? The note was kind of perfunctory. Is that a word you
could use? Like this basically matter of fact? But yeah, I just
didn't know if it was trying to make amends. It was very it was
very strange. But then I mean, but you know, it was kind
of nice to have those pictures. Of course, hey let's take a quick
break. Okay, we're back. So so he got all those pictures and
he had sent me a picture of like, hey, there's this package outside,
and I was weirded out too. I'm like, what is what's happening?
I remember this story? And then I got it and then I think
I saw somebody. I don't whatever it was, I was like, oh
shit, I have it too. I opened mine first, so I didn't
want to tell him what it was. I was like, I bet you
it's the same thing. But I was like, hey, it's not bad,
and then yeah it was. And then my brother and I have been
trying to figure out, like we were like is he is he dying?
Yeah, like yeah, weird because he wasn't trying to make up with us,
no, because I wrote him back. I mean it took me a
while, but I finally wrote him back and obviously never heard from him.
But I wrote him back and just thanked him and I opened the door because
like, look, I was never going to open the door because I know
my sister and I think we dealt with the issues. I think in the
house differently, there was the fight or flight. I feel like you fought
more than I fought. Once the stuff started happened to me, I was
like, fuck it, I'm out of here, Like I just I would
just just my high school years. I just sort of disappeared, and I
want to, you know, like, but it took care of myself.
So even when we had the falling out, I know you kept kind of
going. But it's this relationship I want to have with mom. That's why
I knew when we had the falling out, I was like, that's it,
because my instinct is to be like I'm out of here and I've already
I'd already tried enough, so to get that those pictures. I was like,
is he is he dying? Like what you know? Like is he
trying to make amends? Is he just trying to open the door. But
so I sent that letter saying I'll leave the door open as well if you
ever want to contact me, like, oh you did, yeah, because
I and he never did. He never did, but I didn't think he
would. But I was like, you know what, like, I'm not
I wanted to say thank you. I don't know if there's a says,
I don't know if there's anything else to say or if there's but if you
know, if you want to reach out, you have my number so you
can call me and nothing and you put your number in there, No,
because that would be then then you would really have my number. I was
just saying it, did you put your number? No? I don't think
so. I don't know he has my number. They have my number.
That's just so weird. It's weird to me, or maybe put my number
sad? It is it's it is sad. I mean it was emotional too,
but then you also have to think my mother. They made a choice
not to speak to both of us, and at different times it wasn't like
it wasn't like we were together and had a fight with them. It was
but they have a way or had a way of like kind of grinding grinding,
like not giving any These are not people who ever apologized, whoever would
see their part in anything. It was like always you did something wrong,
we're mad about it, Like you need you know what I mean, Like
you need to come correct, and at a certain point you just go like
I know. For me, it was when I had a kid, and
it was like for a while, I felt like, well, I want
to keep this relationship, like you said, because I want my daughter to
have like it. It's so sad to go, like my daughter's not going
to have grandparents because John's parents were really old right on the East coast,
and I'm like, my kid has grandparents like right here, like a few
miles from my house, Like why would I I So for me, I
was like, I've got to make this work. So even after he got
into like a big fight with them over something very valid, by the way,
like over the way my stepfather was talking to his wife and he had
to draw a line in the sand, and I felt for him and felt
loyal to him, but at the same time, and I'd had a fight
with them for a different reason. But then I felt I always felt like,
oh, I got to go back. I forgot to make this work
right for your kids, for my kids. But then I think there was
a There was just a moment where I brought Elbe to see my mom because
it became always me, always like if I wanted to see her, like
I had to slept Elbe to her and then just to go for a walk
because at a certain point I didn't want to deal with my stepfather anymore.
So I was like, my mom wouldn't just come over right and hang or
help with the baby or you know. So I brought her over and it
was sort of infrequent, it would be like every other week. And Elbe
has anxiety, probably since she was a baby, and I remember she was
kind of like like didn't want like my mom reached out for her and she
sort of recoiled a little bit, and then my mom was pissed at a
baby, like, oh, well, I guess she's in a bad mood.
And it was like, no, she's not in a bad mood.
She doesn't know you, Like I didn't say that, but I was like
what And then I was like, Wow, why am I being put in
a position? And then and then she kind of acted like Elbe was sort
of a nuisance that Albe was there because she wanted to be telling me about
something. And I I remember having this moment where I was like, she's
got hardly any toys in the house, right, Like you hear about grandma's
that are like, oh my god, I can't wait to be a grandma,
And I'm like, well, my mom was not a great mom,
but like me, she has a doover like she can be a great Yeah,
one of those people that's like, I love having a granddaughter. I'm
going to be different, you know. But it was like, but does
she know she has to be different? I think that's one of the bigger
issues, right, Like does she think she needs a do over because she
doesn't think she was wrong exactly exactly? Yeah, so she I remember she
had like a set of blocks that were too kind of too old for LB,
especially when she was younger, right, but those were for my dad.
Yeah. So I just remember her being kind of annoyed that Lbie was
even there, and it was almost like she was kind of like like,
does she have to be like she would be like that's cute, but like
now we're done with that, and I want to like tell you about like
some work story. And I remember thinking what am I doing? Yeah,
you know, it's just so weird to me that she lives out here right
in Los Angeles. So she lives out here, She's got grandchildren from her
daughter and her son, and yet doesn't It's just like they don't exist.
Yeah, it's just bizarre to me. Like I don't know how people.
I understand being a terrible parent. I kind of understand that. But when
yes, like you said, it's like, now's your chance for redemption.
You live in LA. You got grandchildren, I mean, go see them
or something, but nothing, which is weird. My dad's letter even said
I thought you might want some pictures of you as a kid to share with
your kids. So he they know because they never even like my falling out
was before I had kids, so they've never they don't even they've never met
my kids or or acknowledged they were acknowledged or anything like that. Yeah,
so my god, Yeah, so but they know, wow, And they've
never met your name name never twin twins, and they haven't seen Elbie since
she was two. So LB's the only grandchildren out of all you guys.
What about the other siblings. She has a son. We don't know if
they're close or not. I mean, I don't know. So they might
not be close either. She might not be a I think that they are,
aren't they? I have no idea. Our sister is not on social
media. Oh she's not on Facebook. That sucks, no, especially for
you. Well, she had us both blocked, of course, and John
blocked. I think so because we because we look every once in a while,
you know, I'd be like, and she's not there. And then
all of a sudden, STEPH looked under John's account and founder, and I
looked under my wife's account and founder, and we're like, she purposely went
to block us. And there wasn't even anything like fascinating. It was really
boring stuff that she was blocking us from. Yeah, it's it's all very
very odd, especially because it wasn't this dramatic like our childhood wasn't even like
super dramatic or I mean, it wasn't great, but it wasn't it right.
I mean, it wasn't like horrifying like neglect or abuse. It was
just like so it has always been weird to us. But I do feel,
and I think my brother feels too, that the keeping up of the
relationship with them in the first place was all work on our part. Yeah.
Yeah, it was tiring. I mean, that was the whole Because
I do talk about that. I'm like, it's not you know, you
hear about people's childhoods where you're like, oh my god, that sounds awful
and it's hard to point to stuff. But it was just sort of like
a constant thing. It was basically the two of them together, and you
had to be in the fold. And if you were in the fold,
then you were you were in trouble or ostracized or or you know. My
dad wouldn't speak to me for days for who knows what reason, and my
mom would back them up. So, like, even the fight we had,
I got into it with him, and then when I spoke to my
mom and I was like, look, this is ridiculous, and we had
a whole conversation. It sounded like I was getting through to her because she
was, you know, she was crying a little bit, and she's like,
I know, I hear you, I hear you. The next time
I spoke to her. She said, you need to apologize to your dad
and I was like for what and she was like, because you you know,
you were route to him and this and that, Like, well,
that's not going to happen. And so that's when I knew, like they
had gone off and been like and that's but I was like, oh my
gosh, this is what we've been doing our whole lives, is kind of
getting back in the fold. And I was like, I don't want to
get back in the fold. I'm good, I'm done. So I was,
I was out and yeah, and that's why I just knew at the
time. And then they like, I said, my dad sent me an
email telling me that I was whatever, and then I guess that he was
worried. I wasn't reading my email, so it was horrible. It was
you're never gonna if you have kids, which I doubt, or something like.
It was basically saying that he'll probably never have kids because he's not.
It's like, that's the only reason I had kids was to prove him wrong.
In your face, Dado, I told you that my mom said to
me when I was talking about whether I would have another kid, and she
was like, I think you're probably somebody who should only have one kid.
Oh yeah, I remember, yeah, what the hell? And so he's
your stepdad, Stephanie, but he's your biological yeah, yes. And have
you ever met Stanley her step heard biological. I met him when I moved
out here. We had Thanksgiving together, we did. Yeah, yeah,
I feel like he would be fun to have Thanksgiving one. I don't know
if he was fun then, yes, okay. I don't know if he
even liked me because I was Gil's son. So my mother, I mean,
I've probably been open about this, but so my mother was married to
my father for a while, Like she met him young, and then they
were married until they had me, when she'd already been with him like four
years. Maybe she had me at twenty three and she married him at nineteen.
Yeah, so four years, and then four years later they got divorced.
So she was with him for like eight years. The whole time.
My stepfather was a very good friend of my father's I remember that, and
lived in our guest house, like I mean kind of looked alike. Oh
that's crazy. Yeah, my dad told me stories back in the day when
they were roommates in New York. Uh, huh where there were college roommates
they were, Yeah, and the he told me like one like when the
rent was due, the landlord like, hey, to my dad, the
rents do and he's like, okay, okay, but you know, Stanley
has it. And then later on he would see Stanley, it's like,
hey, the rents do. He's like, I know, I told you
Stanley has it. Like they could do that much of like uh right,
right, right, right, Wow. My mom has a type yes,
yes, yes, So when she divorced my father, I mean, I
I don't know, but he was in six months later he was she was
living with my stepfather, got it, and then a couple of years after
that they had my brother, and then two years later they had my sister.
I mean they're still together like that. It obviously worked out. That's
crazy. Yeah, yeah, like listen, they're not horrible people by any
They're not. They're but it was just I think that you know, I
will the way he I was. Again, I was. They weren't great
either, and we had some chaos in the childhood and I fought all the
time. And then my brother and my sister were young, younger, and
I'm sure didn't love seeing all the screaming. Yeah, usually the boy kind
of you know, shuts down and just kind of leaves at some point when
and the girls are more of the feisty ones. That sounds that right,
Yeah, yeah, No, I mean I remember seeing I don't remember enough,
but I remember fights, and I remember I remember one time coming home.
We had left the four of us, my younger sister, me,
my mom, and my dad to go somewhere and then temple, Temple,
and then my dad. They realized they forgot something. They were coming home,
and I had that sinking feeling that stuff was gonna get in trouble because
she was using the stereo or whatever, and there was a I wasn't allowed
to use the stereo, which by the way, wasn't like I was scratching
records or whatever. I was older, because if you were, I mean,
I would have been like, yeah, I was like niner. It
was. It was it was Springfields was so I was already like sixteen years
old. Just listening to the stereo meant pushing a button that would turn it
on, because it was like the radio or whatever. Back in those days.
I wasn't allowed to push the button because my stepfather didn't like me and
didn't want me touching any of his. It was like that's mine, Yes,
my stereo, you can't use it. And it was the only stereo
in the house. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I think I might have
had a little bit of a seventies mentality too. Back then. I remember
my friend's parents. It's like, oh, they weren't allowed to touch shit,
you know, like they're not allowed to like the stereo, or don't
touch the thermostat, Like who came over and turned it down, Like,
don't touch the thermostat. I don't want that person in my house anymore.
It was very like all right, already, like my kids' friends come over
and they're running around dropping crumbs, mobile muffin. I mean, it's a
you know, yeah, it's a free for all. So you came home.
So yeah, I came home and I was I was like I had
that feeling. And then there was like they went inside and sudden there was
a huge screaming match yelling. I think it. I think it. It
didn't uh come out into the front yard. All I remember is it is
just like, yeah, that was stuff that I would that's sad. I
remember. That gives you a stomach ache, like that's so traumatizing to kids,
and I would you know, I didn't have any of that because like
stuff says, it's not like it was horrible and stuff like that. But
it's like then when stuff left the house, and then I became the kind
of the focal point, and I can be stubborn and I can be you
know, I have I can I can wise off, and it just yeah,
it became I became the new focal point. But like you said,
I kind of more shut down and disappeared. I remember one time we had
to go to a couple's therapy, my dad and I really yeah, we
went to therapy and it was basically a chance for him just to tell me
for fifty minutes how much I sucked. And I was like, okay,
cool, this is this is I don't know if this is helping me as
much as I as you think it will. But and then we ran out
of like the discount therapy, like it was it was some deal. But
they said we can continue if we put under Michael's name, and and then
and then they were like, but you have to pay, and I was
like wait what. And so the next time we came to the session.
I didn't bring any money, and I was like, oh, I'm supposed
to pay for this. I was like, I can't pay for it,
and so we went in and my dad was really pissed now because he was
like, we're trying to make this work and just started bashing. I was
like, wait a second, this is what I'm paying for. So I
was like I'm out of here. I got up and left and walked out,
and I was basically just disappeared for the whole day. And I was
like downtown Springfield and I was like go into pay phones back in the day
on those payphones and calling my friend to pick me up. And I was
going from house to house and I only made the mistake to go to a
house where they knew the number. So they finally found me like twelve hours
later, and they're like, why don't you just come home and we'll talk.
I'm like, I'm not coming home. And so when I came home,
I got grounded and I was like, shit, I shouldn't have come
home. But yeah, my whole thing was he charged across the room at
one point at you in therapy. I think he did that to me,
not I don't think it's not in therapy. No, he charged you in
therapy. Yeah. I was forced in there when I was sixteen when we
did like a family therapy session, and he just he had very serious anger
issues, very serious angry issues, I mean, very yelling and angry and
red in the face and vain popping out. And I was really, so,
do you think this sibling, the younger sibling, got that from him?
I don't know, but when I was in because you don't, you
see Michael, you seem very mellow, like I don't think he's really mellow.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm raging right now, though I said something earlier
that I'm really pissed at. Yeah, okay, later, all right.
When I was in therapy for myself, like at like sixteen, I remember
the therapist saying and I was always like, I don't understand, like my
whole family hates me, like they don't like me, my stepfather hates me,
and they I am to blame for all these things. And the therapist
was like, you're what they call the identified problem, like when there's any
problems in the family, because I was like, everybody seems perfect and they
all get along perfect except for me. And then She explained to me this
thing called the identified problem where whatever issues because I was like, my parents,
my mother and stepfather never fight, never, and she was like,
that's because whatever tensions arise, they think they blame you for. And she
said, mark my words, when you leave the house somebody else that it
has to go somewhere. But I didn't even believe it. And it wasn't
until years later that my brother told me about like some of the fights that
he would have because they it's in from my estimation from what I observed,
he was never in trouble. My sister was never in trouble, like it
was only me. I constantly mad at me. If I came home one
minute late, I was grounded, like the focus was on me, So
I was not happy. But I remember being like, wait, what,
Like he's like, oh oh, we have like almost physically challenged each other.
Yeah, I mean to be fair. When when that time was going
on, I was perfect, So I get why you would seen me and
go he's perfect. But then I think I became too perfect and my dad
it just yeah right, yeah, but what did it happen right away after
I left? Or I think it happened. I mean Honestly, I think
it's part of it with him and I and I don't know, It's just
that I was growing up. You grow up and you start to become rebellious
and you're not the little boy anymore. And I think he just did not
like, you know, you hit hit a certain age and you sort of
like talk back or you sort of stand up for yourself, and you know,
Yeah, there was that time when I was like, he had a
dark group. So the basement. The basement was my area. That's where
I watched TV. That's where I hung out. You know. My friends
would come to the window and knock on the window to be like come on
out. Let's like, let's get out of here. So I was never
up in the main area. I was in the basement or in my room.
But he had his dark room back there, and I was back with
the box where you had to like press the buttons for the you know,
cable, and he had it like tethered into his dark room. So he
was watching some baseball game. I came down to my room. I was
like, I'm just going to check things. So I went to go check
something else that was on. But you had to go like toggle ab.
It was just a whole It was a whole mess, but bursting out and
he was like, why isn't the baseball game. I'm like, it's a
commercial. I'm watching it. I was like it's a commercial, dude,
Like you know, I'm just checking to see something else on. He got
all mad. He told me to get out of here. I'm like,
I don't have to get out of here. And that became like that hole.
He was like, get out of here. So I was on the
stairs saying I'm not getting out of here, and he would. Then that's
when he was like physically trying to get me up the stairs. And then
we got into a big altercation in the kitchen where mom had to break us
up. And I was like, yeah, like that and that's like that
was like Jesus, I'm not you know, next time, I'll just I
guess I'll get out of there. Wow. So sad. You guys came
out so like totally normal. Well, one thing that was very helpful was
having each other. Yeah, and I left when he was pretty young.
You were eleven. Did you have guilt leaving him? No, She's out
of there. Well, it wasn't that I didn't have it. I felt
bad. I remember my sister, who was nine at the time, writing
me this note and saying how much she was gonna miss me. I mean,
I didn't realize that they were actually sad. I didn't feel wanted,
is honest to god. I felt like everybody's gonna be I mean, my
mom couldn't wait to get me the fuck out. She was charging me rent
at the time, and she was like, you cannot stay here. So
when I moved, I mean, Gil was probably not speaking to me at
the time at all. He hardly ever was speaking to me. So I
was like, everybody's gonna be happy that I'm gone. And obviously I didn't
have like a close relationship with my brother at that time. He was a
young kid. But then I would come back home like yearly for Thanksgiving or
whatever, and he and I would talk, and as time went on,
I was like, we have like the same sense of humor and yeah,
and then we just started getting closer, like every year. And I remember
when he graduated college. I guess I came home for I remember that we
got we really talked then, and I was like, and we started and
then we started like more keeping in touch. You left me a letter because
I was at summer camp when you left. So I came home like I
was gone for the month and I came home and was I remember there was
a letter from you, and it meant a lot to me. Oh it
was so nice. So keeping hard on myself. I needed the envelope.
That's why I was because you hadn't sealed it. I was like, that
means a lot. She's let me recycle the envelope. She'd take another break,
Yeah, take a break. Yeah, I think though that looking back.
Once my brother and I got closer and then we moved across the country.
He he, I was already living in LA and then he moved across
the country. And then that's been very healing, you know, to have
a close relationship with him, and we've been through a lot together and like
had our had kids, and he you know, helped me so much with
my kids and like when my when Elbie was in the hospital when she was
a little baby, and like he was always the one I called, you
know, and then now he and his wife, you know, that's like
my first call when there was and I think vice versa, and you know,
I think I think it helped me realize that I was capable of having
family relate, you know what I mean. It's like it's so different as
adults than it was when we were kids, right right, and the I
think some of the way we grew up was obviously toxic and gave us both
different images of ourselves. It's hard to see yourself as somebody who can be
a great dad or be a great mom or you know. And I think
we've helped each other. I think, yeah, when I looked up to
stuff, I mean, you know, you may not know that, but
I looked up to her because she was my older sister and she was cool,
and you know, when she left I it was always like this utopia.
She was out in La doing her thing. You know, when she
started doing stand up I watched stand up comedy all the time, so just
to like kind of bond with her through that like that way, and she
would send me tapes and see, you know, like she got me into
Depeche mode, like I just ah, yeah, I was so cute,
Like yeah, I was, I was into I always looked up to her.
So I don't know if she ever knew that because of the whole whatever
was going on, but yeah, when my wife when we were dating,
meeting steph was the bigger deal for her. She knew that meeting stuff.
If she didn't get in, if Stephane didn't like her, she was screwged.
She wasn't as worried about my parents. She was worried about what stuff.
Yeah, I could see funny and I liked her right away. I
was like, Oh, she's funny, Like she's funny. She's like super
outgoing. And then my brother and I, I don't know, somehow we
were going to dinner or something, and she got very insecure because I think
she thought that I was going to tell you to break up with her or
something. I remember that we went to we went we went out to sushi,
and then I didn't know the whole time she was at home freaking out.
And when I came home, she was like, thought that I was
going to see steph because I was talking about how we need to break up
and stuff like that. That's what I was going to do. But I
can't prove her. Right later, I feel like she and I talked about
it and I was like, no, he was telling me like, oh
my god, she's so amazing. I'm in love with her like, yeah,
that's awesome, but yeah she does. Do you know the Brad story,
right, the Gina bro story. No, so there was So Gina
is her best friend. I'm sure she'd like to tell the story at the
time. So it's fine. Gina is her best friend, her maid of
honor. And you know, all of us would hang out watch football.
And it was eighteen twenty years ago for the Super Bowl. We're watching the
Super Bowl, but no one could really watch that year. Raquel had to
go work. She was working at the Kodak Theater and I had one friend
over but he had to leave, so it was just me and Gina watching
watching the game. Gina notoriously gets hot. Her her core temperature goes up.
There's been many times when she just leaves to go take a shower so
she get her temperature downe We're living in like this not so great apartment down
in like Western and Melrose, like there was no air conditioning and it was
just so. Raquel came home and unbeknownst to us, she had noticed that
Gena's bra was had she taken her broth and we were just watching the game.
We had like a good time. We enjoyed the game. It was
a lot of fun. It was the Janet Jackson year. Oh yeah,
yeah. She was trying to recreate the genia. She's like, this is
what happened. I was like, no, no, no, this is
what happened. So we kept showing Raquel that over and over. So then
but yeah, Raquel came in and she didn't say anything, and she just
went in the back room, you know, into our bedroom and she just
started watching uh International, house Hunters International or whatever and just sat there.
And then later we found out that she saw the bra and thought we had
an affair and went in the back and was like all this crazy stuff.
And she told us and we're like what but your reaction was to go in
the back and watch Internet, you know international. So yeah, so there's
there's that's hilarious. Wow, Wow, that's funny. Yeah, Gina is
married to their friend. I know, but I was trying to I was
like, was that was Jeff Originally? Jeff was originally Rockel's friend, right,
yeah, he was like he because he he reviewed he reviews theater,
so she knew. Okay, so they got together. Jeff is and Jeff
is my friend too. That because we see them Everythanksgiving. Every Thanksgiving.
This is our core group. Jeff and Gina, Me and John and the
kids, and my brother and Raquel and their kids. Right. And Jeff
is a is a film professor basically at community college. And he was the
one that I think I told that was like, Okay, Elbe needs to
go to community college, Like this is actually a great thing. He's like
super pro community college and like all about how she's going to save money,
and and Elbe just like did not want to hear it. The Thanksgiving that
she was doing applications and she's like ah blah blah blah blah. And then
but anyway, Jeff's been the one that's really helpful that like has a really
good friend that's in the transfer department that's just like anything you need, it's
he's been like a really good connection. Oh that's good. It's good to
have. Yeah, And Gena and I were friends before Raquel and I.
Raquel Raquel and I didn't like each other at first because we were in the
same restaurant and she thought I was she didn't like my dry humor, and
I thought she was too loud, and so we just sort of just couldn't
we just we just yeah. It was just like she you know, she
was loud. She I mean she would walk into like the backstation, like
moving to Vaginas. I'm walk coming in person and I'm making my dry,
sarcastic remarks and she's like, I don't get dry humor, Like you either
have to say vaginas or I don't get it right. And then we just
started flirting because because Gina would always be like, let's hang out, and
I was the new guy at the restaurant and like, let's hang out with
Mike. And She's like, I don't want to hang out with Mike.
And I was like, okay, I guess. And then we just sort
of started flirting and suddenly we were like, oh, I mean, you're
loud, but I could look I can, I can look past it.
I can. I can tune out right right. She's very funny. She
has come up with so many saying I don't know where she gets it,
but she was the one who was just like, hey, you make sack
of SuDS. She also mixes up saying sometimes. There was one time she
told my dad that was back when we're all obvious saying out, but she
told him it was something was something was so funny. He would drop dead
in his pants and we were like, it's that funny. You dropped dead
right in your pants. That's hilarious. So even now I'm like, oh
man, I'm gonna drop dead in my pants. I love that she came
up with calling if you have to peek calling it, I gotta take a
sizzle. Oh I love that too. Yeah, and it's stuck. There's
so many rocks that we Yeah, you gotta sizzle. You got to sizzle
before we go, because it makes a sizzling sound when youird it does you
peek so many things that she just naturally. I don't know where she gets
them. I don't know some of them. She just mixes them up and
then they just, you know, this come out right and it sounds fine.
It's like you just sometimes I'm like, just don't delve too far into
it. I'll hear on phone calls and she'll do a saying, saying and
she's mixed up the saying, and I'm just like, but she just keeps
going so that if you've noticed it, it's too late, like you and
I don't. I'm just like, yeah, just keep going, Just don't
commit to it, she commits to Yes, it's impressed. That's good.
Yeah. So years ago, so my brother did stand up too, and
he had some really funny jokes. Tell us the do the cowjoke? You
remember it? Yes, it's always you know I did the cow joke?
Did I ever tell you? The cowjoke is never a good starter? I
started one time with comedy my set. It throws off the whole Yeah,
oh, you know what we have to talk about. Okay, but do
the cowjoke. And then we have to tell them the story of when you
did stand up about our parents, the friend of your parents. Yeah,
well we got to tell you the story. Okay, So you have a
cowjoke, the cow jokes, Well, it's not a joke. I mean,
it's real, right, It's from my life because I had a pet
cow when I was growing up. Yeah, and I really love that cow.
Like me and the cow. We did everything together, Like when I
would come home from school, the cow is waiting for me in the mornings,
the cow would walk me to school. It was just like it was
a classic tale of a boy and his cow. And then one time the
cow went out for a pack of cigarettes and it never came back. That's
the thing about cows, you know, like they'll rip your heart out,
chew it up, swallow it to their first stomach, bring it back up,
trying it some more, and then you know, swallow to the second
stomach and just you just never know when they're gonna be done with your right.
Yeah, wow, that's good. Yeah, I will never love another
cow again. So he had the he wrote these jokes that were like about
our parents. So there's a lot of hippie jokes, but my parents being
hippie and my dad not having a job. So yeah, well yeah,
I'm trying to remember. Oh yeah, so my dad like, if you
want to get a sense of my dad, picture a guy who looks like
he's from zz Top with the big long beard minus the rock star income,
yeah, or any income whatsoever. Wow. And if you want to picture
my mom, picture a woman who'd be attracted to a guy that looks like
he's from zz Top and has no money. So I was doing those jokes
in front of them, and then he and then a joke about smoking pot,
about pot, and yeah, where are the rolling papers? Yeah?
What was that with the rolling papers? And then he was like, oh,
you got to ask your mom, that's your mom's department or something.
Huh. Yeah. There was also one with like you know, my dad
would always get frustrated because they'd only bring out the good rolling papers when company
was around, but he really couldn't say anything because he didn't pay for it.
So my mom loved all these. She has a good sense of so
she no, I don't think she'd heard them at this time. So my
parents were he was doing this a show at the improv. We all came
to see him and I was like, what are you going to Are you
going to do those jokes because that was like a main part of mainstay.
Yeah, and he was like nothing else right, and it was the most
tense. I was like, what is going to happen? Like these are
like some intense jokes about like my dad has no money, like doesn't have
a job and so. And they they laughed, thought it was the most
the funniest thing. That's good that they have a sense of humor. I
don't know, I don't know, but they're also very oblivious. Like okay,
quick story. My sister wrote this story. I wish I wish this
this should be more for Patreon, but in a nutshell my sister wrote this
story worry about some very bad behavior on her part that we knew about.
We knew that she was doing this bad behavior, but my mom has kind
of had my sister on a pedestal, so she wrote this story that was
like if you read it, you'd be like, holy shit. But she
pretended it was like fiction. And then my mom was like, oh my
god, your sister wrote this amazing story like ah, her imagination, you
know, and it like we were like what, like that's that's true,
Like this is how she lives her life. And my mom was like,
oh, she's the best, she's the greatest. You need to help her
get a publishing deal. Yeah wow. And it was so she tends to
not think things are right, so she probably thought like that he was just
what a funny funny jokes? Those are just those aren't observations right right.
I do remember my dad going to see me just him at one club and
then afterwards, you know, I was like, you know, you crave,
like how do you think you know? How was it? He was
like, oh it was good. The other that band that did this other
thing, they were really great. I'm like yeah, cool, But you
know, just like I wanted more about me, but he kept Yeah,
we really like that that band. I think they were good. Right,
Well, you know the story of me, of her coming to see me
at a show when she was out here visiting. This is before she lived
here. She'd hardly I don't think I think she'd see me do stand up
like one maybe once or twice came out. I was at the comedy store
and she did not say anything about me, and then she said, oh,
that other girl was really funny. She was talking about Lisa, and
she was like, oh, she was hilarious. And we ended up in
a fight about it because I later I was because then I was upset.
Yeah, like nothing not, you were great, you were so funny.
Oh, let's talk about the other people. It is just as common courtesy
if you watch somebody do something, the first thing you say is like,
your thing was so good, you were so great, that was so fun
Oh, let's break down the other thing we saw too, right right right,
Like if you went to go see John Stewart and John Mullaney and you
say nothing to John Stewart and you're just like, oh my god, John
Mullaney was halle and you never say anything even John Stewart would be like,
okay, what I do that's my mother, yes, yeah, And later
I said that really hurt my feelings, like you never said anything, and
then she still didn't. She was like, well, I mean you know
how I feel or something, and I was like, no, I don't.
So that's so that's yeah, that tracks does track well. He they
saw me in a play when in college, and I guess my mom told
me later because he didn't say anyth to me, but he was like,
was going on about me, like like felt like I was like de neroesque
and whatever I was doing. Wow, but not to you, not to
me. See, isn't that interesting? Like they'll talk to other people about
but they don't have twitch pride or something. My mom not say anything to
you personally. Yeah, my mom was always big on talking about us because
it's it's then it becomes an extension of her pride thing. Like I remember
when they were in Japan and she would always talk about her children and what
they were up to. But it wasn't you know, it wasn't like to
us, but you got that. You knew that it was because I didn't
focus back on her right on her interesting that's interesting. Yeah, but you
know what, to bring this full circle, my brother has done a lot
of things. Used to do like some ghostwriting. You've written proposals for people
when I was writing books, and then he got into TV and he's made
it. He's like very successful. I love that. Yeah, he'd never
let anything like hold him back. Yeah, both of you. And he's
a loving husband. And he's a great dad. Oh my god, he's
like the best dad. His kids are super like dad focused. Yes,
yes, there. Raquel was out of town this weekend and Beckett was like,
I'm gonna be sleeping in your bed. I'm like, well, you
can sleep in your bed, and then come it's like nope, I'm just
gonna sleep in your bed. And then Emerson was like I'm gonna sleep in
your bed and like, no, you're gonna wake up and you need me,
then you can call me. And on Saturday or Sunday morning, I
looked over and they were both like cuddled up all the stuff. Yeah,
it's so cute. Oh, they love them some. Michael. Well,
it's amazing and interesting that you two both turned out to have to be great
parents in the you know, considering well, no, it's true, though,
you guys are great parents, and look at your example. You didn't
have a great example, obviously, Well look at you. You're a great
parent, and you didn't have like the best example. I mean I had
a good dad. Yeah, my dad and I were close. But yeah,
but well is there? How do we do? Do you want people
to follow you on Instagram? I give a TikTok channel. I don't.
I've been trying to start a TikTok channel, but I do not. I
have my Pella clown TikTok that I haven't gotten off the ground. But then
Instagram, I have my mustache videos. Okay, well what's your Instagram handle?
I don't have no idea. Michael Wilder sixty nine or I don't,
but I don't know why sixty nine I don't. It wasn't sexual. I
just think I was doing it fast, right right, I think not that
you should do that fast? Right? This is getting bad? But yeah,
I'm in the Facebook group. Okay, there are some Mustache and Me
videos which are yes, okay, funny. And that's a huge tailor swift
that he's a swift. Oh you're a swift. I'm a huge swift.
Ye, yes, oh, that's so cute. And he loves jewel.
I love jewel too, do you? Oh yeah, oh yeah. I've
been to three of her concerts, really Hollywood Bowl. I just saw her
in Irvine and then I saw her in ninety six. I was working in
New York City, New York and on the radio they were talking about how
she was playing the Beacon Theater. So I told the bus boy to watch
the restaurant because there was no one in there, and I walked all the
way to the Beacon Theater and bought tickets to go. Wow, oh that's
so nice. Then I became a big swiftie. That's great. Yeah,
where's your bracelets? I have t shirts, no bracelets. And then there's
a big picture in my girl. You've seen the picture in the garage,
right, Yes, I have seen there was it's a three panel picture.
Uh. Someone found it and they brought it to me as a gift,
and Raquel was like, great, that's going to go in the trash and
I was like, no, that's going to go in the in our house
like I can in the kitchen. So we've compromised on the garage. But
yeah, it's a that's so cool. Oh, thank you, Michael.
Thanks you for driving all the way down here. We really appreciate it.
No, I'm glad to be here. Thank you, Yes, okay,
par and everybody, don't f it up.