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You think, why don't you what
position? Instead? Okay, so you're

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a so you think you're an an
agnostic? Is ever saying? No?

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JA, just say I'm I'm I
don't. I don't want to argue with

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hypotheticals like you don't have an actual
position? No, take this, take

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this for what it is. So
you don't have an actual position today?

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Why would you not? Why would
you not? Why would you not defend

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your own position? Why? Why
do I have to? Who says I

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do? Well? It usually debates
involve one position being defended against another,

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and I thinking you as someone who
knows okay, well, so can I

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start debating for some random other position? Would that make any sense? Why

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would you not defend you? I'm
asking you because it's a sign, because

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it signifies bad faith if you're not
going to defend your own position or say

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what it is? Who says that? Why do you think? So?

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Why do you immediately judge me as
bad faith for just coming in asking?

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Because it shouldn't it shouldn't be difficult
because it's it's sophistry. If you won't

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say what your your belief for your
position? Is you your name calling?

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What does sophistry mean? Explain why
softree is an action. It's not name

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calling, it's an it's no,
you just called. You just called the

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sophistry that's calling me a soface explains
an action, right that you're engaging in

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sophistry? Okay, what does the
action explain that? Why can you not

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say what your position is? What
does what does sophistry mean? That you

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won't answer questions directly? You talk
around it, you get bad answers,

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you get bad arguments, fallacies,
et cetera. All that, that's what

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means as well as well as uh, you know, arguing over words and

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definitions of terms. I know,
well, arguing over a over at trinity

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that says, I, you know, someone's not saving unless they believe it.

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Correct. You're arguing over words right
now. Well, we started with

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the text. But hold on,
we started with the text and you ran

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away from that. Why don't Why
don't you want to go back to the

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text? What text are you referring
to? I said last night, I

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gave a two hour lecture on that. They often he's just from Genesis?

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What text are you referring to?
And Jenna, there's about forty who the

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whole book? No, forty tacks
of theophanies. I'm rounding it, rounding

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it around to about four. I
was not a part of this discussion last

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night. Eight. Okay, but
my point is that we can go through

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those taxs, and why don't you
want to go to those taxs and explain

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to me why it's not the triad? No, go for it. We

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can go on. Well, I
started with the tax and you said,

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well, you're indoctrinated to believe those
things. That was what you're Well,

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you certainly, I mean you.
I don't think you realize that you are,

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but you are. Okay, wait
a minute, so you're not indoctrinated.

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I don't know if I am,
or every I think My argument is

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my my approach to all these kinds
of questions is that every human being is

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indoctrinated and religiously holds their worldview.
So whatever your mysterious unnamed worldview is that

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you won't defend you hold it as
a religious commitment, is my view.

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Maybe maybe not. No, everyone
does. No by necessity, no,

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no, by necessity you do?
You make? You make a lot of

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these half nations that that I don't
necessarily see within myself. I mean,

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you can you have every right to
say this stuff. But I'm not so

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sure you're you're it's saying. I
just say, I think it's that you

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can demonstrate that the fundamental nature of
how a worldview works. Everybody has fundamental

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commitments that they believe on a faith
based in a faith based sense, that

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they're not willing to give up unless
those presuppositions are themselves challenged. So,

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if you're an agnostic, let's say
you're going to interpret things according to your

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paradigm. You're correct that I interpret
things according to my paradigm, and I

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am indoctrinated. I just simply believe
that everyone is. Even if you're an

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agnostic, you're also a doctrinate and
you hold it. I'm not really I'm

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not really opposed to what you're saying
right now to you. I think you're

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probably more You're probably correct I would. So that's why I end up oftentimes

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if I'm talking to an atheist or
agnostic, I end up arguing this sort

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of subpositional trendsnal argument stuff. Yeah, and I'm not here to argue as

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some kind of moving target. Really, what I'm trying to tag down here

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is kind of really your position as
why would you why is the trinity necessary

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for salvation? Can you explain that
to me? Because God, if that's

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who God is, and we believe
that it is, and if that's how

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he reveals himself, and if we're
being invited into that trinitarian life, that

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that's what eternal life is, as
Jesus says in John seventeen, is to

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partake of that eternal glory that he
had with the Father before the foundational world,

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and to become sons of God and
then to share in that trinitarian communion.

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Then for us, that's what's absolutely
necessary to be preached and taught.

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Yeah, this is a system of
ideas that well you asked me what the

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position is, so calling it ideas
doesn't do anything or improve or disprote anything.

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And I understand that this is a
Christian world view and it makes sense

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the Christians within that world view.
I said, do you want to do?

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Are you wanted to argue why the
Christian world be is true? Is

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that what you're going for? I
think I think that probably ends up there

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is why why to the whole world
this idea that God is a trinity is

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somehow selve ethic? Meaning what are
you in first off, you have to

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believe in the trinity in order to
be saved, and then you have to

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ask the question, save from what, well, save from your own choices,

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your own damnation, your own evil. Who says that I'm damned?

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Am I own evil in the first
place? For me to even know that

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I need that? Well, again, divine revelation is our ultimate authority and

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commitment, and men are fallen and
so they need circular argument. Which yeah,

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but I I by affirming that we
all have our religious commitments, I

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believe that paradigm level arguments are circular. Okay, Well, that's a good

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mission. But you we will often
point out to people that their are that's

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different from a vicious circle. That's
two different things because it's two different orders

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of argument. Different category is okay, So when it's convenient, you've know

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just two different categories. So if
you had a philosophy class, you might

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know this. Because there's such a
thing as like, have you ever have

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you had any classes on Wickenstein?
Well, first off, to assume that

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I haven't is kind of rude.
To just say that I can't assume it

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because I already know from the way
you answered that you haven't because you would

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be familiar with these topics. That's
very judgmental and maybe okay, so okay,

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now it's now it's about you made
it personal. You made a personal

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jam. No, I can already
tell that you're not familiar because you would

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know these things if you'd had an
epistemology class, or if you had a

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class on Wickenstein. You know what
you're You're being very clever. It's not

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worth you think. I'm just trying
to be tricky here. Now I'm talking

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about actually you certainly are. Yeah, I don't know. All I know

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is tricks. Yeah, yeah,
so I won't be going can you explain?

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Uh? The point here is that
the way that language, for example,

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works is that you can't define language
or meaning without referring to language or

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meaning. So at a base level, linguistic philosophy is circular, and world

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views are the same way. If
you're going to talk about what your ultimate

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epistemic authority is, for example,
at a certain point, you're ultimately gonna

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have to appeel to something that's self
referencing. Right, Okay, let's list.

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Then let's start at the very beginning. What does the word god mean

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since you're Since you're such a no, since you're systemology, explain where the

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etymology of the word God comes from. Well, that would be the etymological

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fallacy, first of all, because
the origin of the word is not going

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to matter to what our debate is. Okay, No, define the word

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god and then tell me where it
comes from. Let's build I don't have

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to What does the word the English
transliteration of theos have to do with what

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we're talking about I'm making I'm making
a point. Hold on, I'm making

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a point about logic and argumentation and
starting points. Right, so far do

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we use and do we use words? And logic? Logic comes from the

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word logos, and it has to
do with words. So let's go Yeah,

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And so, all I'm pointing out
is that in philosophy and linguistic philosophy

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you'll note that at a certain point
things are circular because you have to rely

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on the same thing that you're appealing
to. Right this, everything is circular?

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J I agree. No, let's
go back to the not everything is

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at a fundamental ultimate level, things
are circular. Not everything is circular.

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So that's why I said it's a
category error. Let's start from the very

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beginning. Where does the English word
God come from? Let's uh, are

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you going to defend a position or
say what your position is? Are you?

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Are you? Are you an agnosty? So you don't want to engage,

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You don't want to engage in a
transcendental argument discussion. I want to

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terms. I've already said that God
picks out the Trinity or God the Father

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specifically, what does God mean in
English? What does that word come from?

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Do you want me to just again
repeat it? It picks out for

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us God the Father. The English
transliteration or origin has nothing to do with

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what we're talking about. There is
no English transliteration. God is a reference

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to theos in the Greek. God
is a generic God is a generic term.

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Theos is the Greek word for God. But why was the Why was

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the English word God chosen? What
does the word God mean in English?

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Where does that word come from?
And why did the translators of the word

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Are you the guy who says that
God is the word God and that's a

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demon? Am I saying that?
No? Are you that guy? No?

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I am not that guy? Okay, So how is this? You

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know? What are you referring to? Real? Quickly. There's another guy

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who comes on and argues at this
point, and he says that the word

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God is the identical phonetically to the
text in Isaiah that says that they worshiped

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God and that God is a demon. I don't, I don't, I

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don't know any Oh, you sound
like that guy, so I thought that

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you were him. Well, No, I have no idea what that is.

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But I mean, I'm just using. I'm just using. This has

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nothing to do with whether there's a
transcendental argument for God's existence or not.

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Do you want to talk about that
or you just want to argue about words,

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because everything you've done is deflect away
from anything substantial. No, I

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don't. I think it's very substantial
when we're trying to get to the words

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that the very words that we're using
to describe it. Well, every point

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I've made, you've deflected off to
some other point. Now we're having to

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talk about what is your point with
the word God? What's your point?

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You can't refer You can't even use
language in the first That's not what transcidental

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means. You don't even know what
you're talking about. You think you don't

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even know what this is like,
what do you think a transceident argument is?

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Define transcendental? Jay? You said
it's not No, No, you

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said that. You said that it's
not that, so so that means that

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you know, and what is it? No, please go ahead and define

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it the term for me. No, you already spoke as if you know.

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So I want you to tell me
what is the transcendental argument? I

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don't know it, Jay, tell
me, oh right, so well then

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why did you act like you knew? No? Maybe I do. I

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want to know your definition. I
want you now, I'm not going to

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debate if you don't know, because
you played like you knew. So you're

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not a good faith debater. You're
what I'm trying to do. And I'm

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sure the audience can probably know the
audience is laughing at you, dude,

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Yes they are. I can see. I can see the chat of about

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seven hundred people laughing and calling you
a meltdown. So what's a transidental what's

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a transcendental argument? What's a transcendental
argument? What is it? You said?

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You said you you said you knew
what it was? What is a

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transcendent argument? Silence? No,
don't what I'm trying to do what is

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it what I'm trying to do with
them? So you don't actually know what

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I'm trying. Everyone is laughing,
you see, it's all l O L

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s. Look, you can try
to humiliate me into the corner. No,

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you do this yourself, trying to
do this yourself. Have a conversation

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about real words here. You said, you said that words, so you're

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not you're not gonna answer no,
words that are based in reality and not

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transcendental, not above our heads.
That's not even what the word means.

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So you didn't know. So you
didn't know what a transcendental argument was,

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but you played like you did.
That's not what it means. Okay,

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fine, let me just say I
don't know what it means. Please define

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it for me. Right. It's
a type of argumentation that comes out of

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Aristotle and Kant, where you prove
something by the impossibility of the contrary.

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The form, for example, is
X is the necessary precondition of why why

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therefore X. So that's how we
argue against any position that's agnostic or atheist,

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by showing that they can't give an
account for their assumptions and their presubsitions

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or their use of logic. You
just said a lot of words, and

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I'm sure philosophically it's all correct and
nice and tidy. Right, we're done,

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Celton. Oh hey, yep,
my up. Sorry, there's a

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Billy Jay, a big fan.
So I was thinking of the Sorry.

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I listened to your revamped Theophanes what'
sure last night. I'm really excited from

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that. I also went back and
watched the debate between Father Deacon and Ice

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in Mats Slick. It's also a
classic the So I guess this is it?

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This is a since your question not
to not doggedly asking this when you

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your last couple of callers you mentioned, Look, I just went to the

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text and proved the trinity. That
smacked of me. The same issue that

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Masulik had is saying, let's just
go to the Bible and read it and

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it says when it says, because
I think the last caller was arguing,

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well, the Jews disagree with that, because I think, as Father de

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can for you, we all come
to the text. Let you escape.

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How would you escape that superficial comparison
that I just made. Yeah, it's

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a good question. So when we
say that the Protestant approach of well,

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I just go to the text and
the text mean what it says and says

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what it means. Typically, that's
just arguing as if all you need to

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do is like look at the Greek
and see what the Greek says. That

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doesn't mean that we can't look at
the Greek and see what the Greek says,

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or look at the text and see
what it says. It means that

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we have to do it holistically.
So, like I pointed out the beginning

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of last night's lecture, the Trinity
is not a doctrine necessarily that you're going

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to prove from like one verse or
from this thing over here. The Trinity

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will be known and proven holistically from
the canonical text as a whole. So

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you're going to do canonical interpretation.
And even Protestants tend to agree with this.

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So when I often point that out
about James White, I'm really just

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pointing out that James White's being inconsistent
with his own approach to the text and

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with his own belief in presubpositionalism and
kind of reading the things holistically. The

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only difference between us and the Protestant
that admits that there's a holistic canonical reading

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is that we don't strict that holistic
sense to just the Bible. We also

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include the attestation of the church,
fathers, the councils, uh, you

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know, the lives of the saints, the liturgy. So it's all a

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holistic thing and there's not like one
thing that you go to that's like the

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final thing, like oh, it's
just this Bible verse over here, or

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oh it's this thing over here.
But that doesn't mean that I can't go

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to the text and read the text. It doesn't mean I can't proof text.

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It doesn't mean I can't even quote
mine. It's just a question of

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a lot of times when people quote
mine, for example, they do it

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without the context, or they do
it out of context. So it's not

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quote mining or proof texting or going
to the text or anything like that.

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That's the problem. Dude. You
don't have to keep thumbing down. I'll

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bring you on. Man. I'm
not talking to you, Kelt, I'm

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talking to this other dude. That's
okay. Does that make Yeah? That

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makes sense. And that's what deconon
and I argued, is that you need

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to do your stricture holistically. But
also what was like the church the church

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testimony holistically? Okay, see as
you just you know, I'm wondering if

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it's all less down to the tang
argument here, if it's a cruci a

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Protestant, and did you and you
an Orthodox come in and you all holistically

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quote you know, the Torah plus
uh whatever is well in the case of

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the Jew, for example, if
he's only going to cite the Torah and

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the profits, then in that case
I would have to go into his accepted

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authority like Justin Martin does. Right
when Justin Martyr's debating would try for the

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Jew, he goes to the Old
Testament passages and tries to make his case

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from all the theophanies, just like
we do. I'm just imagining. So

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I read one hundred pages of Protestant
apologetics. Hundred pages is Orthodox apologetics.

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If there's equal content, you know, how do you do? You have

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to fall back and just saying,
look, you know, the church is

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inspired, it's the Orthodox Church from
history, we win by default. Well,

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No, if I was if I
was talking to a Protestant at that

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point, I would not grant that
he has the right canon or that he

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can even know what the canon is
apart from the attestation of the Church in

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history. So that's typically where I
take the canon debate at that point.

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Okay, yeah, so okay,
so even if even if you could with

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a problem, right, Okay,
so you know in juices, no,

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you're taking your reading back trinitarian stuff
into the Old Testament. Well, at

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that point I would say that first, modern Jewish scholarship, as I argued,

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because that's identical to the Muslim argument. Right, So if you watch

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the debate with Daniel Hikikachu, this
is where that debate went. Where I

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was like, well, first of
all, modern Jewish scholarship admits that ancient

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Hebrew revelation was not monolithically unitarian,
right, And then I would move to

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okay, and then if we look
at the text themselves, they do show

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multiplicity in God. So there's nothing
inherently wrong with going to the text.

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And I would just point out,
likeily we did last night, right,

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we went through you know, one
whole or two whole hours of just Theophanes

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in Genesis, probably I don't know
forty of them thirty Yeah, excellent,

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Okay, Yeah, I'm just trying
to get a better sense of you know,

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win, can you know, do
you quote unquote your study last night?

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Was just ga in the Bible right, or when to pull in the

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church funders, or when you need
to go to someone else's atomy. Well,

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I think that it's never wrong to
do that. It depends on the

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case and who you're debating with.
So again, if it's a Muslim,

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you know, uh, they're only
going to accept what they want out of

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the previous revelation. And so that's
why I like going to the argument of

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well are you consistent with prior revelation. If it's a Jew, They're only

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going to accept certain texts, so
I would be forced to go to their

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text, like Justin Martyr does with
Trifo. So it's kind of like the

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same point about well what about evidences, Like, if you're a transcendental argument

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proponent, are you against evidences?
Don't you always critique evidentialists? No,

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there's nothing wrong with evidences. In
fact, going to the texts are like

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evidences, right, So each of
these Theophany texts is a piece of evidence

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to make my case, and the
making of that case, unfortunately does require

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a more holistic perspective, whether it's
all the Old Testament or whether it's and

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the New Testament, or whether it's
the Old and New Testament and the teaching

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of the Church Fathers and the tradition
of the church. Like, that's the

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holistic context from which I'm being informed, But that doesn't mean that I can't

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use or do evidences. Does that
make sense? Yeah, that makes sense.

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And so last night, wasn't you
in a Bible in pre list?

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That was you with an appropriate scope
for the audience, But you have a

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back catalog of other avenues to do
to go through if you're argument targeting.

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Okay, fantastic, thanks so much. She Yeah, the point is not

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like can we can we go to
the Bible or not to prove things?

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Of course, like if you go
to thecumenical councils or if you read the

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Church Fathers, they're constantly citing the
scriptures to prove their positions. So proof

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texting itself is not a problem.
And even quote minding itself is by definition

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isn't wrong. But if you quote
mine out of context, then it's deceptive

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and misleading. It's a different thing. But also, yeah, it's really

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the paradigm that we're coming from and
how holistically we're informed. And so if

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we have a totality perspective, old
and New Testament and teaching of the Church

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and so forth. Then we're much
more capable. We have much much better

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tool set to correctly interpret the particulars. So each particular text again is going

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to be interpreted via our knowledge of
the whole text, right, and this

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is called canonical interpretation or holistic interpretation. Likewise, it's also going to be

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informed more than by more than just
the text themselves is also going to be

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right. The Council of Nicea Athanasius, their definitions of you know, eternal

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generation, et cetera, et cetera, all of those things are going to

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be part of my paradigm in my
presubposition when I read these texts. Absolutely

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admit that. But they're also not
just presuppositions. There's a reflectionive, symbiotic

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relationship between me reading the texts being
informed as a holistic thing, I mean

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going back and reading the text,
mean then also reading other texts and being

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informed in a holistic way. So
there's this this constant back and forth that

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is I think this process of revelation
and knowing God in part. Okay,

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so you've been raising your hand here, Faith alone wants to come on.

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Go ahead, got an on mute, go ahead. Did you raise your

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hand like twenty times? What's that
laughing at everything I said? Where you're

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00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:52.079
at? Did you turn your mic
permissions on? We can't hear you,

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dude, faith alone? Are you
there to come in? You were?

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You were? You were losing it
there? Yeah? Hello, that's up?

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Hell? Yeah? Why why are
you spreaking out? What's up?

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Can you hear me? Yeah?
What's up? Why are you spaking out?

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Yeah? If you look in history
like Orthodoxy and Catholicism, you'll find

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that they were really dominated by Muslims
and they could never take the Holy Land.

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But the one people who could easily
is the Protestant Christians America UK.

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Faith alone, Christians, we easily
took the We slaughtered the Muslims. You

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can't honestly think this guy's a troll. I'm serious, it's true. So

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he's literally gonna try to pick his
religion on quote taking the Promised Land by

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faith alone. I'm sorry, that's
just not even that's that's like below the

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tear of acceptable argentation. I can't
do it. Giefer. Yeah on new

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dough. Hello, hey hey,
sorry, there's like a like a delay.

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So fine, So I don't know. I'm I'm a young kid.

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I'm an orthodox cetic human, and
I usually try not to argue with my

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like relatives, but they'll kind of
like come and like attack my faith,

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I guess, And so one of
them is a Catholic, and I just

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wanted to know your take on so
a lot of the times when I've been

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I've ever debated Catholics, And specifically
when my aunt was like pressing that orthodoxy,

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She's like just like she would ignore
them everything and just go to like

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the Catholic position is more is better
for like conscious and like these other things

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that have nothing to do with ecclesiology, and she would just keep going back

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to that. I would just try
to, honestly avoid. I would try

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to avoid these conversations with family members. There's just really no point in trying

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to debate a family member. I
understand if they ask you questions and you

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feel sort of on the defensive,
you want to And I'm not saying it's

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always wrong too, but I would
just say, look, why don't you

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just come check out church and notice
the difference between the liturgy at the Orthodox

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Church than at your church, right, I mean, that's that's probably going

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to do a lot better for your
aunt than logic and philosophy, Like an

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aunt is probably going to be more
convinced by the aesthetics than you know.

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Some argument. Now, Diana Henry, you were making a huge fuss yesterday.

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Do you want to come on and
make your arguments about why it's okay

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to pray in mosques as a as
a as a so called Christian All right,

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I mean you're in the chat.
You said you wanted to come chat,

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so you're invited to speak, Alpha
or Diane. Diane, you want

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to go first? Yeah, it's
Diana, Thanks for having me. I

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was just trying to make the point
that you know, you're understanding that charity

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basically love and it's like the other
side of well, I should hold on

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Alpha, let her speak. I
mean, hold on. If you look

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at history, only America in the
UK was able to destroy the Ottomans take

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the Holy Land. The Catholics failed, the Orthodox failed, their captured.

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This is all only people who could
take Go ahead, Diana, why is

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he on stage if he's mental?
How much? How am I? I

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don't know who these people are?
Okay, So yeah, that was basically

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my common I understand you. I
don't know why you deleted your post.

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I didn't want. I didn't want
I didn't want to give attention to some

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of those people. So why is
it uncharitable to talk about what your own

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church teaches? No, I'm not
saying that you can talk about whatever you

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want. I mean, that's part
of logic. Where's the uncharitable part?

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Is that not being able to accept
other people where they are and that their

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faith tradition that they were brought up
in, and these are strongly held religious

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beliefs. And maybe perhaps if you
consider though, I mean I was born

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Catholic. I don't know if you
were, but if I was born Muslim

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or say Jewish or something like that, but that has nothing to do with

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whether it's for false And how does
that make me uncharitable? Where's the lack

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of charity on owners? Sam?
Well? Understanding where someone's coming from?

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Though? Hold on, hold on, I've debated I used to be a

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Roman Catholic And let me just finish, well, why do you think I

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don't understand where they're coming or got
I've we've debated the top Muslims out there,

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00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:21.960
and we'veuld debate I used to be
a Roman Catholic, So what do

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00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:26.039
you mean, No, I'm not. My whole point is if you were

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born Muslims say, because I've met
other people from other faith traditions and I

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was born Catholic, so I was
I'm one of the lucky ones, right,

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But they have these strongly held religious
beliefs. And how I came to

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this conclusion though here on Twitter,
I started following the Komanie Right. They

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all call Americans or America the great
Saint, and they're right if you look

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00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:49.960
at like what's going on in Hollywood, what we support, all our laws,

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abortion, same sex marriage, all
that they are. They are genuinely

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trying in their own way, from
their own upbringing what know right, And

386
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so you have to meet people where
they are. And there's another but we

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do that all the time. We
do that all the time because we I

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00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:12.400
mean this is I've been doing this
for about six years, of these open

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spaces where anybody can come in and
make any arguments they want. So I

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00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:19.519
just failed to see how that's not
meeting people where they are. Well,

391
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.640
no, I'm trying to make the
association that that's what the pope is trying

392
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:26.000
to do. No, No,
that has that's a false analogy, because

393
00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:30.960
your own papal documents forbid you to
go and participate in the religious services of

394
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:34.839
other groups and other religions. Okay, so this is exactly my point,

395
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:40.119
Jaye. Okay, so what charity
actually means he's trying to reach out to

396
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:41.839
other people. That's not what he's
doing. That's not what he's doing.

397
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:45.880
You don't know that. I do
know that because he said, because he

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00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:51.759
has said not to proselytize these people. Well, so the Catholic Church teaches

399
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:55.440
though it's all about your actions,
right and being an example and all,

400
00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:59.160
that's not true. It's also it's
also about your actions in terms of what

401
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.240
you publicly really religiously do, such
as praying towards Moss, praying and most

402
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:07.119
towards Mecca. You understand that that's
an action of apostasy in your own theology.

403
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.200
So if you believe that God,
so you're not you don't you're not

404
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:12.960
gonna you don't think that that's the
case. I answer. I'm trying to

405
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:18.160
answer your point. Let me,
do you do you believe that your church

406
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:23.200
teaches that or not that teaches to
do things? Would it have written back

407
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:29.240
whatever you reference because I'm not a
historian. Yeah, so mortaliam Animos says

408
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:34.640
that if you go and participate in
other church services or other religious services,

409
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:40.559
that it's a surrendering of the Catholic
faith and it's an action of apostasy.

410
00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:42.559
And you're telling me, you're telling
me here, no, it doesn't count

411
00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:47.079
because he's there to evangelize him.
That's not true because both of these popes

412
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:48.960
are a Chumenists, the last two
that have gone into mosque, and they

413
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:56.240
actually say not to proselytize sullen if
like before Jesus, okay, you had

414
00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:59.599
Plato soccer. So you're not going
to address that. That's irrelevant to this

415
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:03.920
two. I'm trying to if you
let me finish my point, but it

416
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:11.400
doesn't matter because your church always because
of what you're because that's that's an irrelevant

417
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:17.319
point. It finish my point,
No, because it's not relevant. You

418
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:19.119
can finish the point all you want, but that point is not relevant.

419
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:25.079
If your church says in nineteen twenty
eight you can't do this, you can't

420
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:29.079
go back to well in the Old
Testament period they believe in a Unitarian God,

421
00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:32.759
like, that's not relevant to the
fact that in nineteen twenty eight.

422
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:36.279
It says you can't do this,
and then it's a surrending of the faith.

423
00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:45.319
So all that tells me is that
it's a contradiction. Marincus, I

424
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:49.599
agree, yep. I just had
a quick question. Obviously we've been critiquing

425
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:55.279
in the Roman Catholic system. If
you have dogmas contradicting each other, and

426
00:30:55.319 --> 00:31:00.279
that would be a it would falsify
the whole system. I'm just want wondering

427
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:04.279
if there's anything that would falsify the
Orthodox system or if you would appeal to

428
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:11.599
tag kind of making it unfalsifiable because
you have to lose your basis for knowledge

429
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:14.079
at all. So I'm just curious
what you talk about that. Well.

430
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:17.880
I mean, I have to believe
that there's not any position that would destroy

431
00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:22.319
the Orthodox faith, but that doesn't
mean that I'm saying it's unfalsifiable. Un

432
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.799
Falsifiability is like a thing where you
construct a system that's it's like a trick,

433
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:33.440
right where for example, if you're
a Marxist, Marxism is unfalsifiable because

434
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.599
if you if you critique Marxism,
all of your arguments are invalidated because only

435
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:44.039
a bourgeois person would critique Marxism.
So you see how that makes like the

436
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:48.839
system unfalsifiable. So unfalsifiability is a
weakness in a system. It's not something

437
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:53.200
that you want to try to construct
for your system, right, I gotcha.

438
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.359
So no, I don't think.
I don't think Orthodoxy is unfalsifiable.

439
00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:01.799
I just think that it's true.
Gotcha. Okay, Yeah, that's it.

440
00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:07.480
Yeah, that's a good question.
I do think, by the way,

441
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:10.799
that the way they construct the proofs
and arguments for the papacy, they

442
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:15.119
try to make it unfalsifiable. And
so in that sense, it's very similar

443
00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:22.200
to Marxists talk koon. By the
way, if I got to spport the

444
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.480
tream, you can do so vi
super chats, go ahead, Hey,

445
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:30.319
Jake, can you hear me?
Hey? I just wanted to get up

446
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:35.319
here. I'm an Orthodox catechumen,
but I had a question because I had

447
00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:40.839
a conversation with the Roman Catholic and
they brought up the point that Constantinople fell

448
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:45.799
and fell when it was UNI eight. Yeah, but it fell when it

449
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:50.680
was UNI eight. So they don't
ever mention that, do they. Yeah,

450
00:32:50.680 --> 00:32:53.319
So they use that as a point
of like Hell shall not prevail over

451
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:57.960
the church, and because it's a
mosque. But that's like a you know,

452
00:32:58.119 --> 00:33:02.079
a way to prove their point.
Wait, their argument number one,

453
00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:07.480
we don't view Constantinople like the Vatican, so that's a dumb, like super

454
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:12.640
like you argument. And by the
way, the Vatican wasn't the pope at

455
00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:20.440
one time locked up in the Vatican
when the Masons took Rome, so does

456
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.519
that invalidate Rome. Haven't Roman Catholics
lost battles to Muslims? And this is

457
00:33:23.559 --> 00:33:29.279
such a stupid argument. So basically
all this means is that I can arbitrarily

458
00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:35.279
interpret events in history to be proofs
of Catholicism based on historical blessings and cursings.

459
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:38.680
However, if you read Augustine's City
of God, the entire apologetic that

460
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:45.039
Augustine is making against the Romans is
to deny that principle that historical collapses and

461
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:49.799
falls of empires prove or disprove the
religion. That's the whole apologetic of City

462
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:52.000
of God. So it's very stupid
of Roman Catholics to sort of use that

463
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:55.640
as some sort of divine sign.
And by the way, when we point

464
00:33:55.680 --> 00:34:02.880
out that the Roman Catholic Church is
full of creeps, PDFs and weirdos and

465
00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:08.039
that it's in a crisis. Oh
guess what suddenly that proves their church because

466
00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:12.320
only the true church would be persecuted
and infiltrated. So you see how that's

467
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:19.239
a that's a great example of the
very unfalsifiability that we just mentioned. Og

468
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:30.239
man, yoj can you hear me? Okay, there's a small delight.

469
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:36.519
So I was an atheist. First
of all, thank you so much for

470
00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:40.239
the things you put online, for
all the free work that you put for

471
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:45.360
us. I mean, I don't
think there's anyone online that do the things

472
00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:52.199
you do, So thank you very
much. I was an atheist like since

473
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:55.559
I was twelve, and I stopped
doing an eighties like two years ago,

474
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:05.559
much because because told you pretty much. But my question is on take It's

475
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:10.719
a really simple question, is okay, why or how do you place God

476
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:17.039
in the exposition? It's basically that
thank you in the exposition? Or you

477
00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:20.760
mean, like where in the argument
is God? What do you mean?

478
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:27.000
Yeah, why how do you place
scot there? Why can't you place something

479
00:35:27.159 --> 00:35:34.599
like a like a force that you
we didn't discover yet or something like Yeah,

480
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:36.360
I see what you're saying. That's
a good question, right. So

481
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:39.800
the way I would answer that is, like the specifically the Christian metaphysic,

482
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:45.920
uh, it posits a unique type
of deity that the other world religions don't

483
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:52.679
have. So, for example,
the world a metaphysic where God is uncreated

484
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:55.400
and the creation is distinct from him, and yet he's present in the world,

485
00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:00.719
and yet he's one and many,
and yet he had as intentionality for

486
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:06.559
the world. The world has tellos
or purpose. Those aspects of the Christian

487
00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:12.519
metaphysics, for example, they disprove
or they resolve the problems where you don't

488
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:16.079
have a world or universe with purpose
or intention. In philosophy, that's called

489
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:22.599
disteleological or it's a disteleological or universe, meaning that the universe doesn't have purpose.

490
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:25.679
If God quote unquote was just an
immaterial force, then there would not

491
00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:30.599
be intentional direction or end of the
universe. It would just be random.

492
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:35.840
It would be what's called accidentalism.
And if there's accidentalism that rules, then

493
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:38.880
we really can't have any coherence or
meaning at all, basically destroys the possibility

494
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:43.239
of order, structure, and meaning
in the world, in the universe.

495
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:47.159
So that's just one example from teleology, but we also have like a basis

496
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:52.719
for grounding universals and particulars. We
would have a basis for regularity of nature,

497
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:57.960
and so we wouldn't be subjected to
the critiques of David human skeptics.

498
00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:00.840
Right. So these are some examples, you know, the immaterial, immateriality

499
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:06.159
of abstract objects, numbers, et
cetera. All of those things. If

500
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:08.519
you take them and put them them
into a big ball, all those metaphysical

501
00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:15.000
principles that are needed to have a
coherent worldview. What grounds that? Well,

502
00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:21.400
the trying God. That's what worldview
his system proclaims to have. And

503
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:24.760
so therefore that would be the philosophical
argument, and that's the God that we

504
00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:30.119
want to then come to know,
Father Moses, does you want to speak?

505
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:34.559
I just was going to pick up
with what you were saying earlier in

506
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:38.280
the at the beginning. Sure,
I got my grub on, but didn't

507
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:44.599
dig out. Finally got call my
wife one a day ago, hit the

508
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.800
corner of the hit the dough,
thinking well I live another twenty five Yeah.

509
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:51.199
Literally, every morning that's what I
wake up to. I'm just jogging.

510
00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:54.760
I don't think that every more.
No, I was I circling back

511
00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:57.880
on what you were saying just a
minutego. It's like something we've often talked

512
00:37:57.880 --> 00:38:01.800
about, which is like the whole
parameter of making sense of Catholicism require you

513
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:09.239
to basically acquire a cult cultic mindset, right where where every everything that would

514
00:38:09.320 --> 00:38:14.199
disprove it or does not align itself
with reality in any way, shape or

515
00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:19.480
form, even common sense is actually
utilized as a defense, yeah, for

516
00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:25.480
why it's correct. And it's just
you can't do that without suspending all kinds

517
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:30.679
of you know, rational thought and
and like I said, common sense,

518
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:34.559
which you often find in cultic movements, and really it's what you find in

519
00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:38.159
the culture today, you know,
it's the it's the the occult kind of

520
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:43.400
idea of one plus one equals three. Right, So you're always having to

521
00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:47.840
sign of supersede anything logical in order
to make sense of it. So anyways,

522
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:51.960
that was it. No, I
think I'm glad that you mentioned that

523
00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:55.320
cult aspect because I brought that up. I can't rememberf it was yesterday,

524
00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:00.280
the day before that. The more
I think about it, the more it

525
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:05.559
does seem like a cult. And
that's not to say that every individual Roman

526
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:08.400
Cawtholic is a bad person. Or
bad willed. I think that you're kind

527
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:14.840
of over time you manifest yourself as
either bad willed when you confront these these

528
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:19.360
topics and you keep doubling down,
tripling down, and trying to sort of

529
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:25.440
make sense of this miasma, this
like this insane sort of like it's like

530
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:30.320
a stained glass window with all the
pieces all out of order, and you're

531
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:34.400
trying to make it into some sob
well, see look over your kind it's

532
00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:37.639
kind of makes sense if you look
at this angle and it's it's like seeing

533
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:39.039
things in the clouds, like it
doesn't work, it's not really there.

534
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:44.239
But you're trying to like piece this
thing together like a puzzle in a weird

535
00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:49.239
way to make it fit. And
to do that it requires a lot of

536
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:53.639
leaps gymnastics, shutting off your brain
and like father most has said, kind

537
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:57.920
of rejecting what's right in front of
your face. I mean, everybody can

538
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:01.679
see right here, Francis is literally
in the moss praying towards Mecca. And

539
00:40:01.719 --> 00:40:05.840
it should be like obvious right here
that you can't do that. If you're

540
00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:07.840
a Christian, there's no way you
would even do that. And so all

541
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:10.920
of these quote loopholes notice that we
have multiple Catholics said, well, there's

542
00:40:10.920 --> 00:40:15.960
loopholes to where you can do this. This is just really this is like

543
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:21.639
this. I saw this video the
other day where the one of the Hasidic

544
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:27.679
Jews was like they'd invented a light
switch, and the light switch. You

545
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:30.440
turn the light switch because you can't
work on the Sabbath, and if you're

546
00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:34.199
to flick a switch, that would
be working on the Sabbath. And so

547
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:38.199
the switch is set up to where
there's a random signal that fires to shut

548
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:44.559
off. So you're not actually by
removing the barrier to the electrical signal,

549
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:50.599
you're not actually turning it off,
but you're actually turning a switch, but

550
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:53.599
you're not doing the work because you're
not physically the cause of the light going

551
00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:57.239
off. So this is the absurd. This is like, this is literal

552
00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:01.519
Roman Catholic thinking, the identical levels
of thinking. I saw another one where

553
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:07.599
one of the rabbinical uh rulings was
that you can walk a certain amount of

554
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:13.800
steps inside on the Sabbath, but
you can't go outside. And so what

555
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:17.199
the Hasidic Jews in the neighborhoods of
New York have done is put a string

556
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:23.559
around a giant section to make it
enclosed. This is outside, so like

557
00:41:23.559 --> 00:41:30.960
there's stringing string from light posts outside
to then say that now it's enclosed because

558
00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:35.360
there's a string. And this is
what leads to this whole idea of like,

559
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:38.320
well I can actually trick God.
Right, that's the mindset, that's

560
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:43.119
like the rabbinical mindset of like,
well I can. I've got these loopholes

561
00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:47.400
that will allow me to like skirt
the issue. And it's exactly what's going

562
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:50.480
on here. What we say,
what do we hear in the first hour,

563
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:53.440
Well, there's a bunch of loopholes. Right. So he's going and

564
00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:59.199
praying in the moss towards Mecca,
but he's actually privately praying for their conversion.

565
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:02.199
Now we don't actually know that,
but people are saying, well,

566
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:07.519
I think that's what he's up to. Okay, but you can't do this,

567
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:10.280
like this action itself is something you
can't do. Go ahead, Yeah,

568
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:13.679
I was gonna say. Yeah.
Two things with that. Number one

569
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:16.800
is when I was eighteen or so, I worked at Starbucks and we used

570
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:21.119
to have these Jews that would come
in and they would they would you know,

571
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:25.079
be coming in on Sabbath and they
can't pay for anything, so they

572
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:29.360
would put money on top. This
is not a joke. They would put

573
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:32.400
money on top of their head,
underneath the hat, and then when they

574
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:37.400
came into Starbucks, they would order
the drink, take the hat off,

575
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:42.000
and then lean their head towards the
counter, so the money would fall off

576
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:45.199
of the top of their head onto
the counter. This is not a joke,

577
00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:49.119
okay. Like, and I mean
at the time, you're like,

578
00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:52.400
you're not You're not fooling God.
Yeah, like you're you know, it's

579
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:55.519
not like it's this is not a
game. You know. It's like you

580
00:42:55.559 --> 00:43:00.320
think about your relationship with your own
children, and when you tell your children

581
00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:02.000
to do something, you're like,
look, it's the spirit of what I'm

582
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:07.119
telling you to do, not X, Y and Z minutia so that you

583
00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:10.760
can find a loophole in what I'm
instructing you to do. And it's also

584
00:43:10.840 --> 00:43:15.440
interesting. I was talking with a
really nice, young, young Roman Catholic

585
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:19.960
guy yesterday on the phone and he
was, you know, we were talking

586
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:23.760
about Roman Catholic priesthood and he was
basically saying, how you know, it's

587
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:29.199
hard to kind of relate to these
priests. So then he got into you

588
00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:34.000
know, uh uh, you know, aren't you married, but aren't you

589
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:37.119
married to the church and then you're
married to your wife? And that isn't

590
00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:39.280
that kind of like polygamy? And
I'm like, buddy, I'm like,

591
00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:46.800
you've you've cultivated a priesthood that's full
of guys who don't want to be married

592
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:52.440
and or have very peculiar desires.
Right, you've you've you've gotten rid of

593
00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:58.920
all the normal, healthy males who
want to have relationships with women. And

594
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:02.880
by the way, by the way, Father Moses, everybody's sort of jumping

595
00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:07.480
on this. Oh, Francis said
something bays the other day about skittles in

596
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:13.639
the seminary. However, that did
everybody miss the point that this actually is

597
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:16.360
an admission of the critique that we're
making. So basically, Francis is admitting,

598
00:44:16.599 --> 00:44:21.159
yeah, there's a skittles everywhere in
the seminaries. That's exactly what we've

599
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:22.960
been saying. And then, by
the way, and then by the way,

600
00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:28.000
he walked it back within twenty four
hours, he apologized for it.

601
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:30.119
What's so crazy is you can say
it, you can say you can go,

602
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:35.079
hey, the seminaries are full of
these type of men who are interested

603
00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:37.719
in these type of proclivities and everybody
goes, no, no, you're over.

604
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:43.519
You know you're over. Yeah,
your literal pope just said the same

605
00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:47.280
thing. You don't think that he
has better he doesn't know, Yeah,

606
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:51.840
he doesn't know that, he doesn't
he's got better information on he said,

607
00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:54.599
it's full of them. It's full
of them. So what's interesting even in

608
00:44:54.599 --> 00:45:00.679
that is that you have this priesthood
that is completely detached from reality, meaning

609
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:06.039
that they're not there, they don't
have normal desires for women, they're not

610
00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:09.480
married, they don't have children,
and yet that they're literally that's going to

611
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:15.920
produce the better priesthood because they're more
committed. And yet when you actually talk,

612
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:19.880
like when I talk to, you
know, a young Roman Catholic guy,

613
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:23.960
it's like they know the things that
I'm telling them pertain way more to

614
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:28.599
their life because they know that I'm
married, that I have a wife,

615
00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:30.400
that I've been where they've been,
and that I'm going that they want to

616
00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:34.159
go in the same direction that I
go in. You know. Again,

617
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:36.559
but you have to kind of turn
your brain off and say, well,

618
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:42.320
the celibate guy who's not interested in
women is actually the higher choice for the

619
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:46.119
priesthood. So I'm like, buddy, you know this is you can't you

620
00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:52.519
can't get good spiritual direction from guys
who don't even understand your way of life,

621
00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:54.000
are not even interested in it,
you know what I'm saying. I

622
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:59.079
don't think that a lot of Roman
Catholics even think of this as spiritual direction.

623
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:00.519
I mean, I think a lot
of the people, I think a

624
00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:02.719
lot of the people that we've been
acting with in the past few days,

625
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:12.239
for example, they see this as
like Bayse trad political movement. Really yeah,

626
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.400
a lot of a lot of the
Twitter tradcat sphere is all about like,

627
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:20.239
no, I'm here because of you
know, uh Pepe the Frog and

628
00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:24.119
uh, you know bayse trad political
stuff. I mean, the first guy

629
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:27.639
that came on, the guy that
was here for the first hour, was

630
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:30.719
basically saying, well, I got
into all this stuff from like the right

631
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:36.039
wing sphere. So how do they
so just in your experience day, how

632
00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:42.119
do they reconcile that with what they
actually encounter in you know, in reality.

633
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:45.119
Well, but see that That's the
thing is like, the idea of

634
00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:50.039
this as a base trad right wing
political movement is more important than any of

635
00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:54.920
this theological stuff. So it's not
even really about it's not even about Christ.

636
00:46:57.039 --> 00:47:00.960
It's about politics being based being trad
you know, spouting off on Twitter.

637
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:06.480
That's what it's about. Interesting.
I mean with a lot of these

638
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:07.440
people. Now some of these people, you know, they try to take

639
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:14.880
it serious. But yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I gotta process that.

640
00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:17.719
I'm again, I'm when we talk
about Roman Catholicism, like, I

641
00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:22.320
don't know the system from the inside, having never been Catholic. I only

642
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:27.719
know it from interacting with people who
were formerly Roman Catholic or people who are

643
00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:32.519
actively Roman Catholic. And there just
seems to be such a disconnect from like,

644
00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:37.880
right, I think within Becautholicism,
there's a lot, it's all over

645
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:42.400
the place. So you've got like
Thomas Merton types that are doing Zen Buddhist

646
00:47:42.519 --> 00:47:49.840
meditation. You've got you know,
want to be LARPing medieval Scholastics that think

647
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:53.360
that Roman Catholicism is Tomism even though
the Vatican hasn't cared about Tomism for the

648
00:47:53.440 --> 00:47:58.280
last seventy years. You've got you
know, trad cats that see it as

649
00:47:58.360 --> 00:48:02.239
like a dogmatic list of propositions that
you believe. You've got Roman Catholics obsessed

650
00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:07.360
with fatima and visions and apparitions.
It's all over the place. And then

651
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:13.360
you've got a sizeable portion of recent
converts via Candice you know, other people

652
00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:16.760
online and for them it's base pat
trad political movement. That's all it is.

653
00:48:19.480 --> 00:48:22.760
Got it, got it? Yeah, it's it's funny. How uh,

654
00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:30.639
it's funny how how you know Protestant
Catholicism is exactly, It's like it's

655
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:36.920
the umbrella that kind of houses all
these different people that are not even ideologically

656
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:42.119
or theologically on the same page,
but all underneath the umbrella of like we're

657
00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:44.760
all the same thing, and yet
they're not so well. I mean,

658
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:46.800
that's what that was the whole premise
of uniotism too, right, Uniits were

659
00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:51.519
told you can believe whatever you want, believe whatever you want about polla Mos

660
00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:54.599
and all these people and energies just
believe in and submit to the pope.

661
00:48:55.719 --> 00:49:02.480
So it's always been kind of a
political geopolitically motivated. Do you think I

662
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:06.000
mean, I know this maybe will
be off topic a little bit, but

663
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:09.199
do you think that like the way
that we see let's say, some three

664
00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:16.159
letter agencies weaving their hands into what's
going on in Ukraine and the ep and

665
00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:22.559
whatnot. Do you feel that there's
that same type of influence that is subtly

666
00:49:22.599 --> 00:49:27.840
being exerted within Roman Catholicism or do
you think that it's at the higher levels

667
00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:30.719
of Vatican levels and whatever else.
It's kind of there's in a meshed kind

668
00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:37.719
of deep state program where people are
kind of moving or guiding the church in

669
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:43.000
a certa quote unquote church in a
certain direction that has their interests in mind.

670
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:46.400
All the above, I think that
if you go back to the Gregorian

671
00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:52.599
Reforms of the eleventh century, the
papacy explicitly started saying that you have to

672
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:55.440
believe in their temporal supremacy, that
is, worldly power to be saved.

673
00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:58.840
If you don't believe in the worldly
power of the pope, you're not saying.

674
00:49:58.840 --> 00:50:01.519
That's when I'm sounked them, which
is that's a couple of centuries after

675
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:07.280
the Gregoing reforms, but Gregoing Reforms
of Dictatus Papi is where it begins.

676
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:10.360
That's the famous document where the Pope's
basically saying that I'm the Quezaus hotter Rock.

677
00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:15.639
And then I think it develops for
a long time into where we are

678
00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:20.039
now, to where you know,
in the twentieth century, there was a

679
00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:24.920
lot of deep state influence, and
that's well documented by Catholics like David Wimhoff.

680
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:29.039
So I think that both things are
going on where it's kind of like

681
00:50:29.800 --> 00:50:34.280
it's all the above. So do
you think that, like some of the

682
00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:39.920
quote unquote more liberal streams that are
happening within Catholicism are the direct byproduct of

683
00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:47.840
the state sponsored influence and participation basically
in the kind of pushing up the agenda

684
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:53.400
the direction I think. I think
that the trad version and the lib version

685
00:50:53.440 --> 00:51:00.559
of Catholicism are both part of the
overall agenda, and that the papacy does

686
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:05.840
a constant bureaucratic two step of what
he usually does is he will do ten

687
00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:09.519
steps forward, two steps back,
and that's a that's a classic bureaucrat move.

688
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.559
So I don't I don't think that
that. I mean, I think

689
00:51:14.599 --> 00:51:20.480
there's a lot of traditional Catholics who
legitimately oppose Francis, But I don't think

690
00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:24.000
at the top, I think it's
really a controlled and managed geopolitical entity.

691
00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:29.239
Yes, it's a captured institution,
is what I'd say. When you see

692
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:31.880
people who are kind of in this
cultic mindset where they they've kind of had

693
00:51:31.880 --> 00:51:36.400
a you know, I hate to
say if I kind of brainwash themselves into

694
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:38.920
accepting these things, especially if her
Catholics say that, you know, if

695
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:44.840
they leave the Catholic Church right there
are doomed to tradition. So there's right

696
00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:52.480
this kind of ultimate kind of sort
of damnicles hanging over their head that they

697
00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:55.719
have to accept even what they don't
want to accept, for fear of losing

698
00:51:55.719 --> 00:52:02.280
eternal salvation. What do you think
is the most powerful or compelling reason or

699
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:07.719
argument that you've seen with with people
actually breaking three of Catholic Well, I

700
00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:10.320
can remember having that exact same thought. I remember having that exact same thought,

701
00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:14.599
and then and then, and what
broke me out of that was at

702
00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:17.719
a certain point you realize, well, if God really does love me,

703
00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:22.000
and if God love is the is
the lover of mankind, as the liturgy

704
00:52:22.039 --> 00:52:28.480
says, then why would he want
and expect me to constantly accept and submit

705
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:34.000
to these you know, ridiculously wicked
people. So, for example, there

706
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:38.719
was a certain bishop at that time
who this was like two thousand and four

707
00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:43.119
or five somewhere in there, and
there was there was a Romancaolic bishop who

708
00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:46.800
had done something very notorious, scandalous, and it related to a lot of

709
00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:52.199
the PDF stuff, right, And
so a discussion came up and the question

710
00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:53.920
was, well, so, wait
a minute, do I still have to

711
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:59.239
go submit to the PDF. Let's
say, for the sake of argument,

712
00:52:59.239 --> 00:53:02.360
we've got a noteorious PDF bishop.
Right, you know what I mean,

713
00:53:02.440 --> 00:53:08.760
right, po, So I'm still
bound Jesus expects me to go submit to

714
00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:14.519
that man as the representative of Christ
and to bring my children to him and

715
00:53:14.519 --> 00:53:16.800
to be catechized by them and so
forth. And many Roman Catholics are saying

716
00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:20.559
yeah. And at that point I
was like, okay, this is ridiculous.

717
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:25.039
There's no way Jesus would expect me
to take my children to a notorious

718
00:53:25.400 --> 00:53:35.000
PDF bishop. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, okay, interesting,

719
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:38.199
okay cool? Well yeah, And
I think the reason that and I know

720
00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:42.320
that like many Roman Cathalis, so
well, we don't believe that you shouldn't

721
00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:46.920
do that. But my point is
that their approach to the legitimacy of the

722
00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:52.400
Church and the sacraments and so forth, they have completely divorced morals from the

723
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:57.280
sacraments, right, And so what
they think is donatism, It's not donatism.

724
00:53:58.039 --> 00:54:00.480
I mean they actually think that like, you can be orda aimed as

725
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:05.000
a Romancolic priest, and that next
day you can go out and start uh.

726
00:54:05.159 --> 00:54:07.800
You can become a Satanist. The
very next day you can spend the

727
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:12.320
rest of your life consecrating the host
to blasphem it. And that's all still

728
00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:16.239
a real operation because they actually think
it's almost like a magical, magical approach,

729
00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:22.440
and it's like they worship the authority
to the extent that there's nothing that

730
00:54:22.519 --> 00:54:27.840
can remove that power and that authority
even if that person and it's getting now

731
00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:30.440
to the point where it's like,
even if the pope's a complete apostate,

732
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:34.480
like he still is, he still
has that authority. And there's there's a

733
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:37.079
quote I think from Catherine of Cna
in the Middle Ages, and and I

734
00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:40.920
think it sums up this whole mindset, and it's something like, even if

735
00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:45.679
the Pope were to be the devil
himself, I would still submit to the

736
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:50.719
Pope. That's how, that's that's
how, that's the ultimate expression of authority

737
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:58.800
worship. Now, from what I
understand with that to the understanding is that

738
00:54:58.920 --> 00:55:04.519
in the Ordin there's actually an ontological
change, right right, But what we

739
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:09.519
wouldn't say is orthodox that if you
apostatize and you go out and start that's

740
00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:15.400
what that's the difference. Yeah,
but that's there. Yeah, That's what

741
00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:20.199
I'm saying, is that in Catholicism, the quote unquote because yeah, can

742
00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:23.159
you hear me, can you hear
me? Yeah, you go ahead,

743
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:28.239
I was gonna say, yeah,
that's what I from my understanding, Yeah,

744
00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:32.679
my understanding was that in Catholicism,
the teaching basically that it's essentially an

745
00:55:32.679 --> 00:55:38.119
ontological change for the person being ordained
was one of the reasons why all of

746
00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:44.360
the grievous misconduct that happened. They
didn't actually lay assize any of those priests,

747
00:55:44.920 --> 00:55:49.639
or they didn't kind of reprimand that
they just moved them around because ontologically

748
00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:52.840
they had been changed from a normal
person quote unquote into a priest, and

749
00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:55.960
so therefore that priest it could never
be taken away from them or something.

750
00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:01.719
Even if you get it, even
if you get defrocked, you're forever a

751
00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:08.400
priest. You're just not in their
terminology, you would not be licit.

752
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:15.000
So it's still you're still confecting the
Eucharist, You're still doing all the full

753
00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:19.119
functions of the priest. You're just
not doing it an illicit way, but

754
00:56:19.159 --> 00:56:22.920
it's all still valid. That's their
view, and so that was part of

755
00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:31.079
the reason why they didn't take that
that and I think there's other things going

756
00:56:31.119 --> 00:56:35.519
on. I think some of these
people were part of networks that had powerful

757
00:56:35.559 --> 00:56:39.320
support. I think that some of
these people. Uh, there's also they've

758
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:44.559
had at certain points a severe lack
of priests to go around because people don't

759
00:56:44.599 --> 00:56:47.760
want to join the Roman Catholic priests. That's why a lot of Roman Catholic

760
00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:54.400
diocese in America now they've all they've
imported all Nigerians to be priests. Oh

761
00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:58.639
really, I didn't even know that. No, they have a severe shortage,

762
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:04.480
Okay, and American Americans don't want
to do it essentially, No,

763
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:12.480
No, there's vocations to seminaries have
plummeted since Vatican Two. Interesting except in

764
00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:19.320
like Africa, so and so forgive
me, but somebody who's in Africa basically

765
00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:22.920
gets a full ride, gets to
go to America, gets to have a

766
00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:27.280
quote unquote stabilized normal life and kind
of a way out of Yeah. Okay,

767
00:57:27.480 --> 00:57:31.880
got it, Yeah, got it. Now I've got some energy to

768
00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:35.639
keep going. We'll keep going.
With some of the people that are in

769
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:37.400
line, because some of you guys
have been waiting for a while. We

770
00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:38.800
do have to remind you that we
have a sponsor. And also I'm going

771
00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:43.320
to go T T to the little
girls on but this is our show.

772
00:57:43.400 --> 00:57:47.679
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798
00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:05.559
You gotta unmute? Andrew? Hi? Thank you so Hi? Can

799
01:00:05.559 --> 01:00:08.599
you hear me? Yeah? I
was just listening to the conversation with the

800
01:00:08.679 --> 01:00:16.840
gentleman. I think his name is
father Mosas Moses, and I just have

801
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:21.440
a couple of questions. So I
would like to know in the history of

802
01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:27.840
the Orthodox Church, how many hospitals, nurses like, nursing homes, orphanages,

803
01:00:29.079 --> 01:00:34.880
schools have has the Orthodox Church actually
founded? Yeah? Have you heard

804
01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:37.159
of? Have you heard of?
Have you heard of? Have you heard

805
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:42.320
of Byzantium? That's where universities come
from. Are you familiar with that bus

806
01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:45.880
in Byzantine? You don't know what
Byzantium is. No, I don't know

807
01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:51.639
what Byzantium is. I'm Roman Catholic
right. Well, actually, the longest

808
01:00:51.719 --> 01:00:53.639
running empire in the history of the
world is a Byzantine Empire, and it's

809
01:00:53.679 --> 01:01:00.440
the Orthodox Empire, like where Turkey
is modern day Turkey. Okay, we're

810
01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:04.119
gonna move on because I'm gonna get
mad and I'll be mean, and I

811
01:01:04.119 --> 01:01:06.960
don't want to be mean and get
people an excuse to say that I'm mean,

812
01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:38.199
Dave. What's up? I'm your
Dave or Dave? You're here?

813
01:01:38.960 --> 01:01:45.000
Yeah? Hi, Well, I
came here because of the word Catholic protests

814
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:51.599
on Muslims. Everything is in here. I don't know whether you discuss religion,

815
01:01:51.800 --> 01:01:54.920
theology, philosophy. I would like
to have one session with you.

816
01:01:55.000 --> 01:02:01.119
I have written two translations of the
Quran, many books on Islam and Christianity

817
01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:08.079
and atheism, and my website.
Hello. Hello, do you hear me?

818
01:02:08.519 --> 01:02:10.599
Yeah, I can hear you.
Hold on, Dave, we're talking

819
01:02:10.639 --> 01:02:15.440
to this guy. Go ahead.
Yeah, my website is banned by Catholic

820
01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:21.440
Church. And to my surprise,
I learned that down. Yes, banned

821
01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:24.639
by Calc Church. You're saying you're
banned by the Calolic Church my website?

822
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:30.079
Yes, How is your website banned
by the Callec Church? Let me tell

823
01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:34.880
you. I was teaching philosophy and
logic for twenty three years. One of

824
01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:38.320
my students moved to San Diego,
and then one day he called me,

825
01:02:38.599 --> 01:02:45.239
former student and said, I'm working
on this philosophy paper I would like to

826
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:49.320
discuss with you. I said,
well, I've written multiple articles on the

827
01:02:49.400 --> 01:02:52.960
subject. It is on my website. Nineteen dot org, I said,

828
01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:58.199
we check and that are you just
here to promote your website? Because no,

829
01:02:58.199 --> 01:03:01.800
no propotion, So hold on,
hold on. The Congregation for the

830
01:03:01.840 --> 01:03:06.960
Doctrine of Faith hasn't banned books in
forever. So how are they banning your

831
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:10.800
website? I was you, you're
telling me a long story. What's well?

832
01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:15.320
He said, He checked it and
he said your website is banned.

833
01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:17.840
He was in Universal. All right, so we'll grant you that the Vatican

834
01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:20.599
is scared of your website. All
right, So let me ask you.

835
01:03:20.599 --> 01:03:22.239
Can I ask a question? Let
me tell you that it's not it's not

836
01:03:22.360 --> 01:03:27.960
story time and website promotion time.
Can I ask you a question? Ahead?

837
01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:32.440
Gentlemen, are you Muslim? I
am a peacemaker. My religion is

838
01:03:32.480 --> 01:03:40.000
peacemaking religion, religion. It's not
a religion. Okay, go ahead,

839
01:03:40.079 --> 01:04:00.880
Dave? What's up? Man?
Speak out here? What do you say?

840
01:04:00.920 --> 01:04:08.360
All right? Try again next time, Dave. So let's keep to

841
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:12.599
the topics, guys. It's not
the let me spam promote my website.

842
01:04:12.800 --> 01:04:19.199
The topics are listed, and peacemaker
is not a religion. Go ahead,

843
01:04:19.239 --> 01:04:25.599
Dan, Hey, Jay, I
have a few I have one question.

844
01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:31.079
Actually, at one of the At
the end of one of Kyle's videos,

845
01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:38.280
it says that the Catholic Church is
trying to have a false union with the

846
01:04:38.400 --> 01:04:43.079
Orthodox Church in twenty twenty five or
twenty twenty six. Do you know anything

847
01:04:43.079 --> 01:04:46.800
about this or no? Yeah,
they were thinking of they're floating the idea

848
01:04:46.840 --> 01:04:51.320
of having a anniversary of the Council, and I see a meeting and Bartholomew

849
01:04:51.360 --> 01:04:54.920
has said he thinks it's a good
idea. Whether that will come about,

850
01:04:54.920 --> 01:04:59.880
we don't know, but Bartholomew has
battered around the idea. Okay, okay,

851
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:03.079
that's all. Yeah. Uh now, it used to be there used

852
01:05:03.079 --> 01:05:11.800
to be some articles on this at
the Union of Orthodox Journalists, but they

853
01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:15.920
got raided and arrested by the Ukrainian
Secret Service and police. So I don't

854
01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:21.280
even know if they're going to be
able to keep going. History matters.

855
01:05:30.119 --> 01:05:38.239
Yeah, I'm mute. History matters. Okay are you? Are you calling

856
01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:45.679
from a tin can? I can't
hear anything. Man, probably down,

857
01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:56.679
I'll come back. Okay, tech
blue has been waiting for a while.

858
01:05:56.719 --> 01:06:14.519
What's up? Man? Got it
on? Mute? Tech Blue? Do

859
01:06:14.519 --> 01:06:17.360
you want to speak yet? On
you? Do you hear me? Do

860
01:06:17.400 --> 01:06:23.320
you hear me. Yeah, okay, So last time I wanted to ask

861
01:06:23.360 --> 01:06:29.800
you a question. I don't understand
the notion of a second coming and the

862
01:06:29.840 --> 01:06:36.000
Old Testament, thank you. I
mean, there's a lot of passages to

863
01:06:36.079 --> 01:06:40.920
talk about the resurrection and the general
Judgment. So any passage in the Old

864
01:06:40.960 --> 01:06:45.920
Testament that talks about the resurrection the
general Judgment would be for us a second

865
01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:49.159
coming passage. Also, any of
the passages that talk about you know,

866
01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:54.440
the fullness of the Messianic promise and
the sense of Christ, you know,

867
01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:59.599
reigning with with the saints, new
heavens, new Earth. Right, Isaiah

868
01:06:59.639 --> 01:07:01.440
talks at about that new heavens,
new Earth thing, that those are all

869
01:07:01.480 --> 01:07:05.360
for us. In latter Isaiah,
those are all for us, you know,

870
01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:12.760
second Coming passages. But for example, there's many Jews that says that

871
01:07:12.800 --> 01:07:19.199
these passages are about David or are
not messianic prophecies, like Isaiah fifty three

872
01:07:19.400 --> 01:07:28.280
or some one and ten. Yeah, but wait, they're not messianic prophecies

873
01:07:28.360 --> 01:07:32.800
or they are what do you say, like the Suffering Servant is about Israel

874
01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:36.960
and the psalms in general are about
yeah, but the whole But all of

875
01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:44.400
those passages like Isaiah fifty one,
fifty two, fifty three also contain Messianic

876
01:07:44.400 --> 01:07:48.800
prophecies. They also call a few
chapters earlier. In forty nine, it

877
01:07:48.880 --> 01:07:55.960
calls the Messiah divine and that he's
worshiped by these gentiles. So if you

878
01:07:56.000 --> 01:08:00.280
read it in the context, not
just singling out the suffering servant pass but

879
01:08:00.360 --> 01:08:04.920
if you look at all the prior
passages from forty nine up to fifty five,

880
01:08:05.639 --> 01:08:09.679
like, you get a totality picture
that it's not just talking about the

881
01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:14.440
nation of Israel. It's talking about
the nation of Israel exemplified in the person

882
01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:19.439
of the Messiah. Can I give
you an example of what I've read?

883
01:08:21.720 --> 01:08:26.000
I mean, I know the Jewish
argument that they think is just the nation

884
01:08:26.079 --> 01:08:30.880
of Israel suffering, sure, but
you know the passages is about the kings,

885
01:08:31.039 --> 01:08:38.199
the future kings, seeing Israel suffering
and then reflecting on themselves and believing

886
01:08:38.239 --> 01:08:42.319
in the Messiah. Like Isaiah forty
nine says, Okay, all right,

887
01:08:43.520 --> 01:08:50.279
I have another Christian. Did Jesus
fulfill all the prophecies? Because there's some

888
01:08:50.439 --> 01:08:57.279
that says that he died before realizing
any of them? But I don't understand

889
01:08:57.279 --> 01:09:00.840
really much if he did or not. I mean, yeah, I think

890
01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:03.319
you fulfilled them all. I've never
heard of him dying before realizing them.

891
01:09:03.319 --> 01:09:09.520
What does that mean? Because they
said that there's no second coming. Then

892
01:09:09.960 --> 01:09:15.520
when he first died, he didn't
accomplish the prophecies like bringing all Jews back

893
01:09:15.560 --> 01:09:19.039
to Israel. Yeah, but holdah, No, if you look at the

894
01:09:19.079 --> 01:09:24.720
way the Book of Acts explains those
passages, the bringing back of the remnant

895
01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:27.960
is what happens in Acts two.
So that is fulfilled in X two.

896
01:09:28.439 --> 01:09:31.039
That's the rebuilding of the fallen tabernacle
of David. That's why the passage in

897
01:09:31.119 --> 01:09:36.960
Acts two cites that prophecy from David
psalms. Furthermore, the psalms constantly talk

898
01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:43.720
about even the Messianic psalms talk about
the Messiah undergoing this death and this descent

899
01:09:43.800 --> 01:09:47.000
to Hades and his resurrection. So
what would all these Messianic passages be talking

900
01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:53.399
about when it talks about the descent
into Hades? Okay, and there's like

901
01:09:53.479 --> 01:10:00.000
probably twenty of them, thirty of
them it but and the one last question

902
01:10:00.319 --> 01:10:05.720
is about the priesthood. Multiple times
you say that the Rabbinical Jews don't have

903
01:10:05.760 --> 01:10:12.920
a priesthood, and a rabbi is
not a rabbi is not a lobitical priest,

904
01:10:13.000 --> 01:10:15.640
right, yeah, I know,
I know. Okay, use the

905
01:10:15.720 --> 01:10:20.119
example of I think the verse that
says you're a priest forever by the order

906
01:10:20.159 --> 01:10:28.399
from Malchis right, Yeah, But
I've heard an argument that Malchis was and

907
01:10:28.399 --> 01:10:32.319
an other I'm gonna say that it
was, it was, it wasn't,

908
01:10:32.359 --> 01:10:41.319
and the first books like it was
added later because means rifle king. So

909
01:10:41.840 --> 01:10:45.359
when they say that it's it's talking
about David like it says you're going to

910
01:10:45.399 --> 01:10:51.560
be a priest forever, like like
a rifle king. I mean the other

911
01:10:51.680 --> 01:10:58.960
songs talk about Malchisada or talks about
Jerusalem being Salem, so you understand Melchisedek

912
01:10:59.000 --> 01:11:03.920
is in Genesis. It's not invented
for David. Yeah. But there argument

913
01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:11.560
is that there was conflict between multiple
tribes of priests, and then the when

914
01:11:11.920 --> 01:11:16.239
the Babylonion concur the Israel, the
kings of the North come to the South

915
01:11:16.319 --> 01:11:23.079
and they wanted to and the priests
and all wanted to. So okay,

916
01:11:23.079 --> 01:11:25.600
I understand what you're saying, but
you don't understand that it's a both and

917
01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:29.520
like Psalm one ten is not just
about David. It's about the Messiah.

918
01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:33.680
You don't think it's a Messianic prophecy. I don't treat it that way.

919
01:11:33.800 --> 01:11:40.000
But do you think Daniel seven is
a mess prophety? Do you think Rashi

920
01:11:40.680 --> 01:11:46.560
is correct he says it is the
some of men? Yeah? Uh,

921
01:11:46.640 --> 01:11:49.880
this one is more tricky, Like
for real, I thin so it's tricky

922
01:11:49.920 --> 01:11:55.680
when it's okay, But isn't it
not tricky when there's all these Theophanes in

923
01:11:55.720 --> 01:11:58.359
the Old Testament? Who do you
think that Theophanes aren't Genesis? Like we

924
01:11:58.439 --> 01:12:00.760
covered last night for like two hours. Who's uh, I wasn't there last

925
01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:03.119
night? But okay, Well,
I mean they're like just just for like

926
01:12:03.159 --> 01:12:05.560
this to just say, for the
sake of argument, the thirty or so

927
01:12:05.680 --> 01:12:11.760
if the often he's in the Book
of Genesis. I think it's metaphorical.

928
01:12:12.119 --> 01:12:18.680
When hold, so you can worship
a metaphor No, you're talking about so.

929
01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:23.119
I think it's how can I sit
up? So like, when let

930
01:12:23.199 --> 01:12:27.399
me give an example worship, it's
not that it's not the angel that you're

931
01:12:27.439 --> 01:12:33.319
worshiped, it's uh, you know, divine agency like God gave the Okay,

932
01:12:33.359 --> 01:12:36.239
so was God in the burning bush
or was it an angel or was

933
01:12:36.279 --> 01:12:42.079
it just quote God's agency? Is
God's agency God or not? Who's who's

934
01:12:42.079 --> 01:12:46.439
the who's the agent? Who's the
agent? It's the angel. Oh so

935
01:12:46.680 --> 01:12:53.920
now created beings can can be called
Yahweh? Can you worship? Can you

936
01:12:53.920 --> 01:12:58.960
worship angels? I mean, so
this is what you have to do to

937
01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:01.520
get out of this. You see. But it's like a king sending an

938
01:13:01.600 --> 01:13:06.199
envoye. Well, but why does
she say? She doesn't say I saw

939
01:13:06.199 --> 01:13:11.600
the representative, I saw God himself. It says that God appeared to Abraham

940
01:13:11.640 --> 01:13:14.279
at the tree at the oak of
Mamara. And you're saying, well,

941
01:13:14.319 --> 01:13:17.479
it's not God, it's it's an
agent of God. But then the agent

942
01:13:17.640 --> 01:13:25.399
is identified multiple times in Genesis as
Jehovah and Jahweh. Yeah, but uh,

943
01:13:26.319 --> 01:13:31.680
you know when an Exodus he said
God said that he put his name

944
01:13:31.720 --> 01:13:35.760
and the angel rights, Yeah,
that's because that's because it's Jesus that's who

945
01:13:35.840 --> 01:13:43.560
has the name. There's another example, whereas there's where win there's an angel

946
01:13:43.640 --> 01:13:47.079
that has the name of the Lord
Yahowel or you're just assuming that that's not

947
01:13:47.159 --> 01:13:51.039
the same figure in the book of
Genesis. So you're assuming that it's another

948
01:13:51.079 --> 01:13:56.239
angel we're saying it's the exact same
angel, because the same angel that spoke

949
01:13:56.319 --> 01:14:00.279
out of the of the bush identifying
itself as I am. How can an

950
01:14:00.319 --> 01:14:03.239
angel say I am when an angel
is not I am? Because it doesn't

951
01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:08.920
the way it good talks to humans
like exactly, so it's God talking and

952
01:14:08.920 --> 01:14:12.239
not an angel. Can an angel
hold on? Can an angel redeem or

953
01:14:12.279 --> 01:14:18.680
forgive sins? Oh? So angels
are now redeemed, so created things,

954
01:14:18.720 --> 01:14:25.760
redeem and forgive sins. But it's
well, you said no, but now

955
01:14:25.800 --> 01:14:28.039
they do. So this is what
you have to go to. This is

956
01:14:28.079 --> 01:14:30.840
the games you got to play to
not accept the fact that clearly the angel

957
01:14:30.920 --> 01:14:33.479
is called the Redeemer. In fact, if you read it at the end

958
01:14:33.520 --> 01:14:38.399
of Genesis, when Jacob talks about
his life story, he says that his

959
01:14:38.560 --> 01:14:44.319
redeemer is the angel who accompanied him
through all of his struggles, and the

960
01:14:44.359 --> 01:14:47.479
Redeemer is the one that it's the
same angel, Redeemer and Angel of the

961
01:14:47.479 --> 01:14:54.199
President's Angel just means messenger. It
doesn't necessarily mean a creative messenger because all

962
01:14:54.199 --> 01:14:56.800
these passages that you said earlier,
well, it's God, but it's an

963
01:14:56.840 --> 01:15:00.079
angel speaking for God. But it's
called God. But it has the name

964
01:15:00.159 --> 01:15:04.039
of God, so it's doesn't doesn't
the Bible tell us then that no one

965
01:15:04.079 --> 01:15:10.439
sees the Father at any time?
Yes, but oh, okay, so,

966
01:15:10.439 --> 01:15:13.079
so who's the form of God that's
appearing in Ezekiel one to ten?

967
01:15:15.239 --> 01:15:19.359
Is it okay? So okay?
And Ezekiel one to ten, there's one

968
01:15:19.439 --> 01:15:23.920
riding on the chariot like a son
of Man who is the face and glory

969
01:15:23.960 --> 01:15:28.800
of God. What's staring you?
What's staring you in the faces? That

970
01:15:28.920 --> 01:15:38.680
is Jesus? Okay? So yeah, you to him. Christian thinks you're

971
01:15:39.079 --> 01:15:43.479
okay. Sure, you had good
conversation if you look at we did a

972
01:15:43.479 --> 01:15:45.840
whole conversation, whole chat on Ezekiel
one to ten, just on that.

973
01:15:50.039 --> 01:15:55.479
Because when he sees the chariot,
which is the cherub him chariot, he

974
01:15:55.560 --> 01:15:59.319
sees that one that rides the chariot
is one like a son of Man,

975
01:15:59.760 --> 01:16:04.800
who is the face and glory of
God. Above the firmament, there was

976
01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:12.159
a sapphire stone. Also from the
appearance of his waist color of amber,

977
01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:15.760
like the appearance of a rainbow.
And so was the appearance of the brightness.

978
01:16:16.279 --> 01:16:19.680
It was the appearance of the likeness
of the glory of God. Now,

979
01:16:19.760 --> 01:16:24.000
God doesn't give his glory to another. So how are we going to

980
01:16:24.079 --> 01:16:27.720
say that this is a created being, an angel that's manifesting, that's writing

981
01:16:27.720 --> 01:16:30.600
the angel chariot. Now, Jesus, only God could ride the chariot of

982
01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:34.600
the gods, right, And this
is a big chariot that's being spoken of

983
01:16:34.640 --> 01:16:40.520
here. And the one riding the
chariot is identified as the one who is

984
01:16:40.600 --> 01:16:45.720
the likeness of God's glory. And
it's the same thing that you just said

985
01:16:45.800 --> 01:16:48.439
was a tricky one in Daniel seven, one like a son of man.

986
01:16:50.279 --> 01:16:57.800
And so if you read Ezekiel one
to Ezekiel ten, the descriptors are the

987
01:16:57.840 --> 01:17:47.039
same. I'm going over here to
ten. Maybe it's eleven. By the

988
01:17:47.079 --> 01:17:50.239
way, immediately after this passage,
I forgot to the Holy Spirit. Well,

989
01:17:50.239 --> 01:17:55.600
the Holy Spirit's present and throughout these
ego won to ten narrative as well.

990
01:17:56.399 --> 01:18:03.640
But yeah, uh, it's escaping
me. Which one is a specific

991
01:18:03.720 --> 01:18:06.399
passage? I'll even just pull it
up in here. I'll bet a zeke

992
01:18:06.439 --> 01:18:51.920
you open. I got too many
tabs open here, or maybe these eco

993
01:18:51.960 --> 01:18:55.119
passages the one that's said no it's
two to one, excuse me. That's

994
01:18:55.159 --> 01:19:06.720
why I can't fire. Now that's
insane. It's let's see. Maybe he

995
01:19:06.760 --> 01:19:19.760
says, the son of God,
one like a son of God. What's

996
01:19:19.840 --> 01:19:24.039
the passive? There's a passage in
Ezekiel where he says that the writer on

997
01:19:24.079 --> 01:19:30.159
the chariot had the appearance of the
glory of the Okay. So eight says

998
01:19:30.239 --> 01:19:46.720
the glory the Lord, the glory
and the spirit, the glory of the

999
01:19:46.760 --> 01:19:50.600
Lord. In ten, the voice
of the Lord speaks, throm the glory

1000
01:19:51.520 --> 01:19:59.359
there one like the son of Man. I know that the Son of Man

1001
01:19:59.359 --> 01:20:29.720
has mentioned. Trying to find that
passage. Does anybody in the chat have

1002
01:20:29.840 --> 01:20:40.159
that reference? Handy? Is it? Ten? So he sees this the

1003
01:20:40.239 --> 01:20:45.039
firmament and the stones, and he
says, I saw the man clothed with

1004
01:20:45.119 --> 01:20:48.279
a robe go between the wheels,
the chair of him. Then he sees

1005
01:20:48.319 --> 01:20:54.439
the glory of the Lord, the
Glory's glory, the glory of the Lord,

1006
01:20:54.520 --> 01:20:56.920
the chair of him. Okay,
So I don't see it in the

1007
01:20:57.039 --> 01:21:04.359
Orthodox study Bible Spirit of the Lord. And eleven there is a pastor that

1008
01:21:04.439 --> 01:21:08.920
says one like the son of Man. It might be in the Masoretic.

1009
01:21:09.159 --> 01:21:21.920
Is why I'm not seeing it in
my Bible. Let's see. Let's see

1010
01:21:21.960 --> 01:21:29.079
one says appearance of a man who
is the lightness of the Glory. No,

1011
01:21:29.159 --> 01:21:30.079
we're talking about there. We're taling
about the one in Ezekiel, not

1012
01:21:30.159 --> 01:21:32.159
the one of Daniel. I know
what Daniel says. I'm looking for this

1013
01:21:32.239 --> 01:21:39.680
pastor specifically in Ezekieel one through ten. I've lost the Bible. Here we

1014
01:21:39.760 --> 01:21:58.079
go. So twenty four it says
the throne a voice came from before the

1015
01:21:58.479 --> 01:22:05.319
from above the firmament. There was
over their heads, the likeness of a

1016
01:22:05.399 --> 01:22:10.640
throne. On the likeness of the
throne was the appearance of a man.

1017
01:22:11.199 --> 01:22:13.479
Okay, so maybe that's what I'm
thinking of that some of them call it

1018
01:22:13.680 --> 01:22:18.399
son of a man from the appearance
of his waist was amber fire, et

1019
01:22:18.439 --> 01:22:25.640
cetera. So we think this is
the logos preincarnate. And then it calls

1020
01:22:25.720 --> 01:22:36.720
him the likeness of the glory,
and that it does parallel the one like

1021
01:22:36.760 --> 01:22:41.560
a son of man and Daniel.
But here are somewhere there's a passes that.

1022
01:22:41.640 --> 01:22:45.479
So something to that effect, I'm
pretty sure. So let's see.

1023
01:22:45.640 --> 01:22:49.159
Maybe let's try eight, because it
comes up a lot in these first eleven

1024
01:22:49.239 --> 01:23:00.479
chapters. So let's see the hand
of the Lord God fell upon me.

1025
01:23:00.680 --> 01:23:04.119
And I looked, and there was
a likeness fire from his waist down.

1026
01:23:04.279 --> 01:23:09.800
So this is the same figure in
the earlier chapters. He stretched out the

1027
01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:12.279
form of a hand, and he
took me by the lock of the hair,

1028
01:23:12.439 --> 01:23:16.800
and the Holy Spirit lifted me up
between earth and heaven. And behold,

1029
01:23:17.319 --> 01:23:20.039
the glory of God was there,
like the vision that I saw in

1030
01:23:20.119 --> 01:23:23.199
the plane. And he said to
me, son, a man, lets

1031
01:23:23.199 --> 01:23:27.399
you up your eyes. What do
you see he sees? So this is

1032
01:23:27.560 --> 01:23:38.960
the Lord doing this right, and
the Spirit is there. And then ten

1033
01:23:39.079 --> 01:23:57.279
says I looked at there in the
fermat above the chair bend, there appeared

1034
01:23:57.359 --> 01:24:00.039
something like a sapphire stone. And
then he spoke to the man clothed with

1035
01:24:00.199 --> 01:24:05.600
linen. So this is the appearance
of a man. Go in among the

1036
01:24:05.640 --> 01:24:12.239
wheels and fill your hands with coal
and fire from among the chairbhm and scatter

1037
01:24:12.279 --> 01:24:15.079
it on the city. Then the
glory of the Lord went up from the

1038
01:24:15.159 --> 01:24:19.399
cherub and paused over the threshold,
and the house of the Lord was filled

1039
01:24:19.439 --> 01:24:23.279
with the cloud. This is the
glory cloud, the brightness of the glory.

1040
01:24:25.640 --> 01:24:35.079
So here is Father son Spirit.
So then this is the wheels of

1041
01:24:35.119 --> 01:24:45.199
the chariot the cherub Then the glory
of the Lord departed from the threshold of

1042
01:24:45.279 --> 01:24:49.359
the temple and stood over the Cherubim, and the glory of God was above

1043
01:24:49.439 --> 01:24:53.680
them. I bet you this is, by the way, where the Muslims

1044
01:24:54.479 --> 01:24:59.640
when they get that perverted, stupid
thing in the Koran that the Salafies followed,

1045
01:24:59.640 --> 01:25:02.039
that he's a above the throne.
I guarantee you it's like a perversion

1046
01:25:02.119 --> 01:25:12.640
of these Ezekiel texts, isn't it
okay? Anyway? Well, maybe I'm

1047
01:25:12.720 --> 01:25:15.640
just thinking of Daniel and thinking of
the fact that it called him one like

1048
01:25:15.720 --> 01:25:20.479
a man. But I could have
sworn some of the translations. Said.

1049
01:25:21.079 --> 01:25:24.159
If they do and I find it
later, I'll put it up here.

1050
01:25:25.520 --> 01:25:28.239
Maybe it's like the King James.
Isn't one like a man or someone like

1051
01:25:28.279 --> 01:25:34.079
something man? Let's see, we've
got a super chat from Trolo, Mexicano

1052
01:25:34.159 --> 01:25:41.119
five dollars. I missed the Ecumenists
anti Acumenism stance. Too many people are

1053
01:25:41.159 --> 01:25:45.760
soft on these positions, just like
people are soft on skittle stuff. Orthodox

1054
01:25:45.880 --> 01:25:54.680
and orthoseexuals have better things to do. May Mexico become Orthodox one day?

1055
01:25:55.800 --> 01:25:58.800
D watch Ah. Thank you Trolo. Well, Emmanuel, five dollars,

1056
01:25:58.880 --> 01:26:01.439
thank you for sharing first start in
this Trinity series. Thank you appreciate that.

1057
01:26:02.199 --> 01:26:08.680
Well, Emmanuel. Food for Stephen
Hawkeyes one dollar. Fundamental method of

1058
01:26:08.720 --> 01:26:13.479
pedagogy is to not compromise on matters
of truth and dogma. Roman Catholics play

1059
01:26:13.479 --> 01:26:15.560
stupid like they don't know that a
pope can't pray in a mosque. Would

1060
01:26:15.560 --> 01:26:20.640
any Roman Catholic agree to call their
libtard family a member? Well, you

1061
01:26:20.720 --> 01:26:24.960
could point you could, you could
point out that when they do the two

1062
01:26:25.039 --> 01:26:27.479
quoquay, because every time you bring
this up to do a two quoqua where

1063
01:26:27.479 --> 01:26:31.439
they'll say, well, but you
you guys do the same stuff. Oh,

1064
01:26:31.520 --> 01:26:36.000
so you're admitting that it's wrong.
And you're correct that there are Orthodox

1065
01:26:36.479 --> 01:26:42.680
bishops that do this and it's also
wrong and apostasy and heresy. I agree.

1066
01:26:43.640 --> 01:26:46.520
But by the fact that you're admitting
that it's Orthodox doing the same sin,

1067
01:26:47.000 --> 01:26:50.560
you're admitting that it's wrong. So
that means that you can't have loopholes.

1068
01:26:51.439 --> 01:26:59.760
You see, So that cuts two
ways history. Did you want to

1069
01:26:59.800 --> 01:27:11.399
try? Yeah, hello, can
you hear me? Yeah? So something

1070
01:27:11.479 --> 01:27:15.920
I have long time, long time
listener. But I'm actually just curious,

1071
01:27:15.920 --> 01:27:18.800
and I know you've I'm positive you've
talked about it, but had some difficulty

1072
01:27:18.920 --> 01:27:25.520
actually finding any discussions you had about
it, what your perspective is on not

1073
01:27:25.840 --> 01:27:31.760
specifically Melkites as a part of a
Catholic Church. I'm under the assumption that

1074
01:27:31.840 --> 01:27:36.279
you believe it's a theologically schizophrenic position. Am I correct in that? Yeah?

1075
01:27:38.239 --> 01:27:41.800
Yeah, yeah, And I understand
that part of it. But I

1076
01:27:42.000 --> 01:27:49.560
was actually curious about, like your
perspective on pragmatic intercommunion under subjugation of other

1077
01:27:50.399 --> 01:27:55.000
like like like in the Middle East, for example, where the Melkites are

1078
01:27:55.000 --> 01:28:01.159
from, there's a long history of
historic intercommunion from a pragmatic perspective, not

1079
01:28:01.279 --> 01:28:05.720
from any ecumenical perspective. Do you
get what I'm saying. I'm kind of

1080
01:28:05.840 --> 01:28:11.359
kind of expect I mean, we
did an interview with a guy a few

1081
01:28:11.439 --> 01:28:15.239
years ago who had left the Melkites, So you might look up Jay Dyer.

1082
01:28:15.359 --> 01:28:23.680
Comma, uh uhm, what was
the name of that? Trying to

1083
01:28:23.720 --> 01:28:36.880
think of the name of that.
Let me find it for former Union.

1084
01:28:38.079 --> 01:28:42.760
Is that what we called it.
It's me and Lewis and the guy was

1085
01:28:42.800 --> 01:28:49.560
in the Melkite seminary. But we
got into a lot of these issues and

1086
01:28:49.640 --> 01:28:55.079
details, and he knew all the
history of Melkite stuff. So m hmm.

1087
01:28:55.680 --> 01:28:59.439
But I gotta find that Videoah.
And just one more thing. I'm

1088
01:28:59.439 --> 01:29:03.159
sorry man in the Middle Zone,
but well, I do think it's a

1089
01:29:03.199 --> 01:29:06.279
little interesting and I'd like to hear
your I guess you expound on this a

1090
01:29:06.319 --> 01:29:13.520
little bit. Everyone kind of thinks
it's used the Malkits as an opportunity for

1091
01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:19.159
at least the Roman Catholic Church,
as an opportunity for further the union between

1092
01:29:20.359 --> 01:29:26.239
Orthodox and the Roman Catholic. But
I kind of actually view it as because

1093
01:29:26.279 --> 01:29:32.319
of the awkward position that the Melkits
are in, they're closer to being reunified

1094
01:29:32.399 --> 01:29:38.399
with Orthodoxy than ever bridging the gap
between Orthodoxy and Rome. What do you

1095
01:29:38.439 --> 01:29:42.159
think of that? I don't know
the internal status of all that. I

1096
01:29:42.239 --> 01:29:45.880
mean, the closest thing I would
have is this I found the podcast.

1097
01:29:45.920 --> 01:29:47.359
I was like, of cour it's
called from Catholic to Orthodox, how Eastern

1098
01:29:47.439 --> 01:29:51.359
Catholics are a death blow to Papism, And that was that guy was in

1099
01:29:51.600 --> 01:29:57.039
the UNI A seminary. I'm pretty
sure, so you could you could check

1100
01:29:57.119 --> 01:30:00.039
that out and see what what he
says. So I'm probably gonna head out

1101
01:30:00.039 --> 01:30:05.079
pretty soon. I'll go I'll do
one more in verse, did not hard

1102
01:30:15.399 --> 01:30:24.279
go ahead and verse yet on mute
man hikay, Sorry about that. Yeah,

1103
01:30:24.319 --> 01:30:27.760
I just had a quick question,
so I can I am officially converted

1104
01:30:27.880 --> 01:30:33.800
on last Holy Saturday, and yeah, and then following that I was,

1105
01:30:34.600 --> 01:30:41.880
I went on kind of a big
trip to multiple countries and recently so I

1106
01:30:41.960 --> 01:30:47.079
guess two Saturdays ago I was in
a Russian church in Sammar Konduzbekistan, and

1107
01:30:47.600 --> 01:30:57.600
I unfortunately like missed communion because confession
was done like midway through divine literagury.

1108
01:30:57.680 --> 01:31:00.439
So I was wondering, as a
row corp, if you could plain that

1109
01:31:00.680 --> 01:31:04.520
and why that that tradition stands.
I don't know. I mean, I

1110
01:31:04.600 --> 01:31:09.479
mean typically I think they just kind
of give the option that it's it's early,

1111
01:31:10.239 --> 01:31:13.399
you're supposed to do it like the
Saturday before, or you do it

1112
01:31:13.520 --> 01:31:17.119
in the morning early, or the
priest gives kind of the last chance to

1113
01:31:17.199 --> 01:31:23.920
do it right before communion. I
guess because some Russian people can't get there

1114
01:31:24.000 --> 01:31:27.279
on time. I don't know.
Father Moses maybe could speak to this better

1115
01:31:27.359 --> 01:31:30.199
than me, I don't know.
Oh, okay, I'll let I'll let

1116
01:31:30.279 --> 01:31:38.439
him answer if he's able to.
Yeah's father, Moses, can you are

1117
01:31:38.479 --> 01:31:46.600
you able to answer that? I'm
not actually sure where the father deacon Ananias,

1118
01:31:46.680 --> 01:31:49.199
are you able to? I don't
know where that tradition comes from.

1119
01:31:49.239 --> 01:31:54.439
Why they why they do that?
I know that, but sorry? What

1120
01:31:54.600 --> 01:31:58.199
was the specific question on that term? Why is it that sometimes in the

1121
01:31:58.319 --> 01:32:04.039
Russian circles of the Russian sphere,
the church will offer a confession kind of

1122
01:32:04.399 --> 01:32:12.199
right before communion or at the beginning
of the service. Oh, just practicalities

1123
01:32:12.239 --> 01:32:15.079
because we have to hear so many
confessions. So there's a couple different ways

1124
01:32:15.119 --> 01:32:19.039
that it's done. Like in a
bigger monastery or church where you have multiple

1125
01:32:19.159 --> 01:32:24.520
priests, sometimes what will happen is
there'll be one priest who's actually designated to

1126
01:32:24.600 --> 01:32:30.359
hear the confessions all during the liturgy, and he'll actually like be out of

1127
01:32:30.439 --> 01:32:36.199
the altar basically hearing confessions all the
way until basically the Great Entrance. There's

1128
01:32:36.239 --> 01:32:42.199
also a tradition within the church where
after the priest receives Holy Communion, he'll

1129
01:32:42.239 --> 01:32:45.920
actually come out and give a homily. So instead of giving a homily off

1130
01:32:45.079 --> 01:32:49.439
after the gospel. They'll actually give
a homily later on after they've received holy

1131
01:32:49.520 --> 01:32:54.640
communion, before the faith will receive
holy communion, in which case, if

1132
01:32:54.680 --> 01:32:58.880
the main celebrating comes out to give
the homily, sometimes the secondary priest will

1133
01:32:58.920 --> 01:33:02.079
go over to the confession and basically
pick up any stragglers that weren't there at

1134
01:33:02.079 --> 01:33:08.720
the beginning of the liturgy. So
this has more to do with larger parishes,

1135
01:33:09.119 --> 01:33:15.079
especially like in cities where people are
traveling and also getting taking public transportation

1136
01:33:15.239 --> 01:33:18.720
in the morning to get the services, where you know, there can be

1137
01:33:18.760 --> 01:33:24.159
all kinds of things that happened at
delay your entrance to getting church and whatnot.

1138
01:33:24.239 --> 01:33:29.159
They're originally in the church. The
actual historical stance of the church was

1139
01:33:29.600 --> 01:33:31.840
if you were if you were not
there by the time of the reading of

1140
01:33:31.920 --> 01:33:38.199
the Gospel, you could not receive
holy communion, right that That is practice

1141
01:33:38.239 --> 01:33:45.000
in my own parents. Yeah,
it's I think that one of the reasons

1142
01:33:45.039 --> 01:33:50.399
it became more lax was that because
grandparents a lot of times were taking grandchildren

1143
01:33:50.640 --> 01:33:55.880
to the liturgy, and so they
would have more difficulty getting them there on

1144
01:33:56.039 --> 01:34:00.960
time, and or parents and or
in big cities, there's just so many

1145
01:34:00.039 --> 01:34:03.600
people, and a lot of times, you know, people wouldn't be able

1146
01:34:03.680 --> 01:34:08.840
to get there the night before to
hear holy or to go to confession.

1147
01:34:09.399 --> 01:34:15.279
So uh again, these things which
should always be viewed as abnormalities, you

1148
01:34:15.359 --> 01:34:20.199
know, and they're there. They
are in the true sense of the word.

1149
01:34:20.319 --> 01:34:26.479
Any knomea based on factors such as
the size of the parish, people

1150
01:34:26.600 --> 01:34:30.239
traveling the city, and other things. They shouldn't become the default. I've

1151
01:34:30.279 --> 01:34:35.239
been at places where that sort of
stuff actually becomes the norm, and but

1152
01:34:35.359 --> 01:34:39.680
there's no reason for it. You
know, it doesn't. It doesn't.

1153
01:34:41.159 --> 01:34:44.920
It doesn't bolster the faith of the
community or make for a strong congregation.

1154
01:34:45.279 --> 01:34:49.560
It actually turns everything very lax and
lucy goosey, and that's not healthier normal.

1155
01:34:50.720 --> 01:34:54.920
Thank you, uh for the people
that were out. Here's the talk

1156
01:34:55.000 --> 01:34:58.760
that I did too on Ezekiel one
to ten. So if you want,

1157
01:34:58.800 --> 01:35:00.640
if you want to go deeper into
these ego passages, we did a whole

1158
01:35:00.720 --> 01:35:04.520
podcast on that probably three or four
years ago. All Right, I'm pretty

1159
01:35:04.560 --> 01:35:08.720
tired and we're gonna go hang out
and do stuff. Jamie and I so

1160
01:35:08.840 --> 01:35:11.560
thank you guys for joining me.
And I want to remind you everybody to

1161
01:35:11.680 --> 01:35:15.960
head on over to the event bright
link. Head over to this event bright

1162
01:35:16.039 --> 01:35:21.000
link right here and get take us
to our June twenty second event with Jim

1163
01:35:21.079 --> 01:35:26.079
Bob and Isaac Vaishop and Jamie my
wife. We're gonna have a lot of

1164
01:35:26.119 --> 01:35:29.359
fun. It's not too late.
Be sure to get your tickets right there

1165
01:35:29.439 --> 01:35:32.720
June twenty second. It's a six
hour epic event and there's the link to

1166
01:35:32.800 --> 01:35:35.279
get that. You can also if
you're watching this later. The link is

1167
01:35:35.319 --> 01:35:41.840
in the show description. It's also
on my Twitter and let's see no edit

1168
01:35:41.920 --> 01:35:45.079
quest three dollars Pope, friends.
The statements are a good rebuttal to the

1169
01:35:45.199 --> 01:35:50.319
intention argument, in other words,
like we don't know the pope's intention for

1170
01:35:50.399 --> 01:35:53.800
praying in the moss. Maybe it's
to convert people. No it's not,

1171
01:35:55.439 --> 01:35:58.560
Pope, says the Pope says quote
it is not listed to convince them of

1172
01:35:58.640 --> 01:36:04.439
your faith. Proselytism is the strongest
venom against the path of ecumenism. Should

1173
01:36:04.479 --> 01:36:08.399
you convince people to become Catholic?
No, no, no, says Pope

1174
01:36:08.399 --> 01:36:12.039
France. Those are quotes from Francis
exactly. Think you know what request ricky

1175
01:36:12.159 --> 01:36:16.079
three dollars, mister clean. That
guy was convinced that we are indoctrinated into

1176
01:36:16.119 --> 01:36:21.399
prior He is correct that we are
indoctrinated into prioritizing the trying God exactly,

1177
01:36:23.079 --> 01:36:26.640
biscuit heead ten dollars, ten dollars, thank you for all that you do.

1178
01:36:26.720 --> 01:36:29.680
You help me and my family become
catechumens at the parish. Can you

1179
01:36:29.720 --> 01:36:34.159
explain how TAG is different from the
fallacy from the consequent We did a whole

1180
01:36:34.199 --> 01:36:39.640
podcast on that with a father,
Deacon had Ayas. I think it was

1181
01:36:39.680 --> 01:36:45.359
one of our first or second podcasts. Uh so we're kind of coming to

1182
01:36:45.399 --> 01:36:48.479
the end of the stream here.
So but most of these questions, I

1183
01:36:48.560 --> 01:36:53.800
know, it's difficult to find because
there's like a massive material. So when

1184
01:36:53.800 --> 01:36:56.600
people are like answer this and it's
like, well, we did a podcast

1185
01:36:56.680 --> 01:36:58.880
on that four years ago, it's
like, well but you can't find Yeah,

1186
01:36:58.880 --> 01:37:02.199
I know, you can blame the
way the algo works here because it's

1187
01:37:02.239 --> 01:37:18.000
really hard to find these things.
Oh wait, I think it might have

1188
01:37:18.119 --> 01:37:27.960
been covered in my stream. I
know it is. It's my stream bad

1189
01:37:28.079 --> 01:37:32.920
Arguments against Tag. What did I
title that? See, then it becomes

1190
01:37:33.199 --> 01:37:36.159
a game of me trying to remember
what I named the streams five years ago,

1191
01:37:36.880 --> 01:38:02.680
six years ago. Arguments against TAG. Yeah, okay, so it's

1192
01:38:02.720 --> 01:38:13.560
either this one or the other one
where I'm arguing against the objections objections to

1193
01:38:13.680 --> 01:38:26.079
TAG objections. I think it's called
objections. Aha. So I remember one

1194
01:38:26.119 --> 01:38:30.880
of them was me in FDA.
No, there's another one where I'm sitting

1195
01:38:30.920 --> 01:38:35.720
in my old apartment and I can't
remember what I named it. Damn.

1196
01:38:45.359 --> 01:38:48.239
A lot of these would be relevant
to it, even though they're not specifically

1197
01:38:48.319 --> 01:38:57.079
addressing that question. Okay, it's
this is this stream, but this is

1198
01:38:57.119 --> 01:38:59.920
a clip from that stream. This
isn't the actual stream here it is.

1199
01:39:01.159 --> 01:39:06.640
It's this one God's existence and transcendental
arguments. So this is the first stream

1200
01:39:06.680 --> 01:39:15.560
that I did addressing objections. So
there's that one, and then there's another

1201
01:39:15.640 --> 01:39:21.159
stream that we did addressing objections here. Now I was going to talk about

1202
01:39:21.239 --> 01:39:25.000
drake Man. I got so many
tabs open that it's like the whole computer's

1203
01:39:25.039 --> 01:39:30.840
frozen something with it. And then
I'm pretty sure we addressed a firm of

1204
01:39:30.880 --> 01:39:34.000
the consequence with FDA here. So
if you don't see it in these three,

1205
01:39:35.479 --> 01:39:48.279
message me again, we don't accept
it. Because anyway, thank you

1206
01:39:48.359 --> 01:39:50.800
guys, appreciate it. Let's see, I think we have a little bit

1207
01:39:50.840 --> 01:39:59.560
more. I think we have more
superstresses. I know this is low tier

1208
01:39:59.640 --> 01:40:04.439
three. Do how is Jesus fully
man if he wasn't conceived by an intercourse?

1209
01:40:05.079 --> 01:40:10.000
Well, he's fully man because he
possesses a fully human nature that he

1210
01:40:10.159 --> 01:40:14.159
derived from his mother. So when
we say man, we mean human nature.

1211
01:40:14.640 --> 01:40:17.479
He's not a human person, and
so this presupposes the distinction between nature

1212
01:40:17.479 --> 01:40:23.880
and person. He's a divine person
or subject because he's the second person of

1213
01:40:23.960 --> 01:40:28.600
the Godhead incarnate, and so the
only subject or agent there is the divine

1214
01:40:28.680 --> 01:40:33.680
agency or divine agent or subject of
the logos. So the human nature that

1215
01:40:33.760 --> 01:40:38.199
he assumed is body, mind,
soul, and will, but not a

1216
01:40:38.279 --> 01:40:42.479
human person. Wouldn't this make him
half man and half God. No,

1217
01:40:42.560 --> 01:40:45.279
he's one hundred percent man and one
hundred percent God. I know this is

1218
01:40:45.359 --> 01:40:49.720
low tier three dollars. Easiest best
church father work to start with, I

1219
01:40:49.760 --> 01:40:54.920
would start with on the Incarnation by
Athanasius, and then I would read the

1220
01:40:55.000 --> 01:40:59.319
theological orations of Gregory nazian Zeus,
and then I would move into other Cappadocians.

1221
01:41:00.840 --> 01:41:03.720
Craig Tiree ten dollars. Jay is
living in a swamp like Shrek.

1222
01:41:03.800 --> 01:41:08.560
Yeah, actually the swamp is literally
right next door. I do feel like

1223
01:41:08.640 --> 01:41:11.319
Shrek. Here's a tip for the
Allergy Fund, Thank you. Yes,

1224
01:41:11.399 --> 01:41:15.600
that goes towards Manuka Honey delivery guide. One dollar are angel's energies? No,

1225
01:41:15.720 --> 01:41:19.239
Angels are created beings that also have
an angelic nature and an angelic person

1226
01:41:19.960 --> 01:41:26.000
hood. So they're angelic beings or
persons like Michael or Gabriel, and they

1227
01:41:26.119 --> 01:41:31.039
have a created energy proper to angelic
nature. Humans have a created energy proper

1228
01:41:31.119 --> 01:41:38.119
to human nature. God has an
energy proper to divine nature. In MidCap

1229
01:41:38.199 --> 01:41:41.840
three dollars, what do you think
about Saint Nikolai Velimrovitch and a humanism?

1230
01:41:42.119 --> 01:41:46.960
He later repented of those things?
Is my understanding? Mind? Had one

1231
01:41:47.039 --> 01:41:50.199
dollar? When is your next book? I'm trying to work on it.

1232
01:41:50.279 --> 01:41:53.800
It's just so much stuff is going
it's hard to find time to write,

1233
01:41:54.079 --> 01:41:56.319
so I want to. I hope
by the end of this year I can

1234
01:41:56.399 --> 01:42:00.000
finish it. Mila five. I
got about one hundred hundred and fifty PA

1235
01:42:00.119 --> 01:42:02.920
just meal level five dollars. I
was born into Orthodox I'm trying to learn

1236
01:42:02.960 --> 01:42:06.800
more. One thing that bothered me
is what happens with good people born into

1237
01:42:06.920 --> 01:42:11.359
sex. I know you've spoken about
this. Could you clarify more? Do

1238
01:42:11.439 --> 01:42:15.119
you mean why would God allow people
to be born into those things? We

1239
01:42:15.199 --> 01:42:23.079
don't ultimately know all of God's unfathomable, you know, knowledge and decisions for

1240
01:42:23.359 --> 01:42:27.159
why He does what. Providentially,
we know if we read the Book of

1241
01:42:27.239 --> 01:42:30.319
Job that basically what we come away
with is that God has a sufficient reason

1242
01:42:30.439 --> 01:42:35.079
for why or we have those kinds
of questions and issues, but God doesn't

1243
01:42:35.159 --> 01:42:40.000
have to tell us. And also
through the dialogue of Job, we get

1244
01:42:40.039 --> 01:42:43.439
the impression that like God couldn't even
explain it to us, right, like

1245
01:42:43.960 --> 01:42:46.840
why it's that way because we're finite, He's infinite, and so forth.

1246
01:42:46.880 --> 01:42:49.800
That's kind of the point at the
end of Book of Job, jays Zuno

1247
01:42:49.880 --> 01:42:55.199
fifteen dollars. Since the Protestant can't
justify the Biblical canon, is it safe

1248
01:42:55.239 --> 01:43:00.279
to say that whatever they interpret from
the Bible lacks foundational truth? Like a

1249
01:43:00.520 --> 01:43:11.760
broken clock is correct twice a day
analogy. I don't know if I would

1250
01:43:11.760 --> 01:43:15.159
say that they lack foundational truth,
I would just say that it's inconsistent,

1251
01:43:15.079 --> 01:43:20.399
like the position is like it's like
two conflicting positions at the same time.

1252
01:43:21.039 --> 01:43:28.119
So anything that they say that's true
is true and has foundation, but they've

1253
01:43:28.159 --> 01:43:31.079
also got this other belief in position
that's inconsistent with that, which is like,

1254
01:43:32.199 --> 01:43:36.039
you know, all the Protestant autonomous, I don't need a church,

1255
01:43:36.720 --> 01:43:42.560
I just automatically know the canon ideas. And I think that that's key to

1256
01:43:42.680 --> 01:43:45.520
Roman Catholicism too, because a lot
of times when we bring these topics up,

1257
01:43:45.079 --> 01:43:49.720
when we point out a contradiction in
Roman Catholic documents, many Roman Catholics

1258
01:43:49.760 --> 01:43:54.079
will run to some place where,
oh, well, here's where a passage

1259
01:43:54.079 --> 01:43:58.319
where it says the Old Testament teaches
the Trinity, and they're missing the point

1260
01:43:58.399 --> 01:44:02.439
that we're not saying that you're tradition
doesn't have a lot of true statements.

1261
01:44:02.960 --> 01:44:06.880
We're saying that there's these conflicting statements
that don't make sense. Right, if

1262
01:44:06.920 --> 01:44:10.520
the Old Testament teaches the Trinity,
and if the Old Testament saints believe in

1263
01:44:10.600 --> 01:44:15.720
worship the Trinity, that's inconsistent with
the other proposition in Vatican two is Lumagentium

1264
01:44:15.880 --> 01:44:21.239
sixteen and Nos fortate that Muslims and
Jews all worship the same generic God that's

1265
01:44:21.319 --> 01:44:27.439
not trinitarian. So you see,
it's like there's conflicting things. That's the

1266
01:44:27.520 --> 01:44:30.560
point. Not do they say a
lot of true things. You see,

1267
01:44:30.760 --> 01:44:32.520
they'll often run to, well,
here's a quote over here where it says

1268
01:44:32.560 --> 01:44:32.960
what you're saying.