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You think, why don't you what
position? Instead? Okay, so you're

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a so you think you're an an
agnostic? Is ever saying? No?

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JA, just say I'm I'm I
don't. I don't want to argue with

4
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hypotheticals like you don't have an actual
position? No, take this, take

5
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this for what it is. So
you don't have an actual position today?

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Why would you not? Why would
you not? Why would you not defend

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your own position? Why? Why
do I have to? Who says I

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do? Well? It usually debates
involve one position being defended against another,

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and I thinking you as someone who
knows okay, well, so can I

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start debating for some random other position? Would that make any sense? Why

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would you not defend you? I'm
asking you because it's a sign, because

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it signifies bad faith if you're not
going to defend your own position or say

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what it is? Who says that? Why do you think? So?

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Why do you immediately judge me as
bad faith for just coming in asking?

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Because it shouldn't it shouldn't be difficult
because it's it's sophistry. If you won't

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say what your your belief for your
position? Is you your name calling?

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What does sophistry mean? Explain why
softree is an action. It's not name

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calling, it's an it's no,
you just called. You just called the

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sophistry that's calling me a soface explains
an action, right that you're engaging in

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sophistry? Okay, what does the
action explain that? Why can you not

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say what your position is? What
does what does sophistry mean? That you

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won't answer questions directly? You talk
around it, you get bad answers,

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you get bad arguments, fallacies,
et cetera. All that, that's what

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means as well as well as uh, you know, arguing over words and

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definitions of terms. I know,
well, arguing over a over at trinity

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that says, I, you know, someone's not saving unless they believe it.

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Correct. You're arguing over words right
now. Well, we started with

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the text. But hold on,
we started with the text and you ran

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away from that. Why don't Why
don't you want to go back to the

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text? What text are you referring
to? I said last night, I

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gave a two hour lecture on that. They often he's just from Genesis?

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What text are you referring to?
And Jenna, there's about forty who the

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whole book? No, forty tacks
of theophanies. I'm rounding it, rounding

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it around to about four. I
was not a part of this discussion last

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night. Eight. Okay, but
my point is that we can go through

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those taxs, and why don't you
want to go to those taxs and explain

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to me why it's not the triad? No, go for it. We

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can go on. Well, I
started with the tax and you said,

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well, you're indoctrinated to believe those
things. That was what you're Well,

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you certainly, I mean you.
I don't think you realize that you are,

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but you are. Okay, wait
a minute, so you're not indoctrinated.

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I don't know if I am,
or every I think My argument is

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my my approach to all these kinds
of questions is that every human being is

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indoctrinated and religiously holds their worldview.
So whatever your mysterious unnamed worldview is that

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you won't defend you hold it as
a religious commitment, is my view.

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Maybe maybe not. No, everyone
does. No by necessity, no,

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no, by necessity you do?
You make? You make a lot of

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these half nations that that I don't
necessarily see within myself. I mean,

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you can you have every right to
say this stuff. But I'm not so

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sure you're you're it's saying. I
just say, I think it's that you

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can demonstrate that the fundamental nature of
how a worldview works. Everybody has fundamental

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commitments that they believe on a faith
based in a faith based sense, that

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they're not willing to give up unless
those presuppositions are themselves challenged. So,

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if you're an agnostic, let's say
you're going to interpret things according to your

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paradigm. You're correct that I interpret
things according to my paradigm, and I

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am indoctrinated. I just simply believe
that everyone is. Even if you're an

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agnostic, you're also a doctrinate and
you hold it. I'm not really I'm

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not really opposed to what you're saying
right now to you. I think you're

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probably more You're probably correct I would. So that's why I end up oftentimes

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if I'm talking to an atheist or
agnostic, I end up arguing this sort

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of subpositional trendsnal argument stuff. Yeah, and I'm not here to argue as

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some kind of moving target. Really, what I'm trying to tag down here

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is kind of really your position as
why would you why is the trinity necessary

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for salvation? Can you explain that
to me? Because God, if that's

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who God is, and we believe
that it is, and if that's how

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he reveals himself, and if we're
being invited into that trinitarian life, that

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that's what eternal life is, as
Jesus says in John seventeen, is to

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partake of that eternal glory that he
had with the Father before the foundational world,

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and to become sons of God and
then to share in that trinitarian communion.

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Then for us, that's what's absolutely
necessary to be preached and taught.

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Yeah, this is a system of
ideas that well you asked me what the

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position is, so calling it ideas
doesn't do anything or improve or disprote anything.

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And I understand that this is a
Christian world view and it makes sense

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the Christians within that world view.
I said, do you want to do?

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Are you wanted to argue why the
Christian world be is true? Is

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that what you're going for? I
think I think that probably ends up there

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is why why to the whole world
this idea that God is a trinity is

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somehow selve ethic? Meaning what are
you in first off, you have to

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believe in the trinity in order to
be saved, and then you have to

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ask the question, save from what, well, save from your own choices,

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your own damnation, your own evil. Who says that I'm damned?

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Am I own evil in the first
place? For me to even know that

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I need that? Well, again, divine revelation is our ultimate authority and

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commitment, and men are fallen and
so they need circular argument. Which yeah,

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but I I by affirming that we
all have our religious commitments, I

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believe that paradigm level arguments are circular. Okay, Well, that's a good

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mission. But you we will often
point out to people that their are that's

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different from a vicious circle. That's
two different things because it's two different orders

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of argument. Different category is okay, So when it's convenient, you've know

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just two different categories. So if
you had a philosophy class, you might

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know this. Because there's such a
thing as like, have you ever have

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you had any classes on Wickenstein?
Well, first off, to assume that

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I haven't is kind of rude.
To just say that I can't assume it

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because I already know from the way
you answered that you haven't because you would

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be familiar with these topics. That's
very judgmental and maybe okay, so okay,

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now it's now it's about you made
it personal. You made a personal

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jam. No, I can already
tell that you're not familiar because you would

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know these things if you'd had an
epistemology class, or if you had a

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class on Wickenstein. You know what
you're You're being very clever. It's not

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worth you think. I'm just trying
to be tricky here. Now I'm talking

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about actually you certainly are. Yeah, I don't know. All I know

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is tricks. Yeah, yeah,
so I won't be going can you explain?

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Uh? The point here is that
the way that language, for example,

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works is that you can't define language
or meaning without referring to language or

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meaning. So at a base level, linguistic philosophy is circular, and world

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views are the same way. If
you're going to talk about what your ultimate

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epistemic authority is, for example,
at a certain point, you're ultimately gonna

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have to appeel to something that's self
referencing. Right, Okay, let's list.

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Then let's start at the very beginning. What does the word god mean

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since you're Since you're such a no, since you're systemology, explain where the

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etymology of the word God comes from. Well, that would be the etymological

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fallacy, first of all, because
the origin of the word is not going

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to matter to what our debate is. Okay, No, define the word

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god and then tell me where it
comes from. Let's build I don't have

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to What does the word the English
transliteration of theos have to do with what

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we're talking about I'm making I'm making
a point. Hold on, I'm making

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a point about logic and argumentation and
starting points. Right, so far do

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we use and do we use words? And logic? Logic comes from the

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word logos, and it has to
do with words. So let's go Yeah,

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And so, all I'm pointing out
is that in philosophy and linguistic philosophy

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you'll note that at a certain point
things are circular because you have to rely

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on the same thing that you're appealing
to. Right this, everything is circular?

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J I agree. No, let's
go back to the not everything is

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at a fundamental ultimate level, things
are circular. Not everything is circular.

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So that's why I said it's a
category error. Let's start from the very

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beginning. Where does the English word
God come from? Let's uh, are

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you going to defend a position or
say what your position is? Are you?

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Are you? Are you an agnosty? So you don't want to engage,

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You don't want to engage in a
transcendental argument discussion. I want to

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terms. I've already said that God
picks out the Trinity or God the Father

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specifically, what does God mean in
English? What does that word come from?

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Do you want me to just again
repeat it? It picks out for

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us God the Father. The English
transliteration or origin has nothing to do with

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what we're talking about. There is
no English transliteration. God is a reference

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to theos in the Greek. God
is a generic God is a generic term.

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Theos is the Greek word for God. But why was the Why was

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the English word God chosen? What
does the word God mean in English?

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Where does that word come from?
And why did the translators of the word

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Are you the guy who says that
God is the word God and that's a

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demon? Am I saying that?
No? Are you that guy? No?

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I am not that guy? Okay, So how is this? You

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know? What are you referring to? Real? Quickly. There's another guy

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who comes on and argues at this
point, and he says that the word

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God is the identical phonetically to the
text in Isaiah that says that they worshiped

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God and that God is a demon. I don't, I don't, I

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don't know any Oh, you sound
like that guy, so I thought that

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you were him. Well, No, I have no idea what that is.

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But I mean, I'm just using. I'm just using. This has

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nothing to do with whether there's a
transcendental argument for God's existence or not.

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00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,360
Do you want to talk about that
or you just want to argue about words,

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because everything you've done is deflect away
from anything substantial. No, I

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don't. I think it's very substantial
when we're trying to get to the words

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that the very words that we're using
to describe it. Well, every point

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I've made, you've deflected off to
some other point. Now we're having to

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talk about what is your point with
the word God? What's your point?

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You can't refer You can't even use
language in the first That's not what transcidental

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means. You don't even know what
you're talking about. You think you don't

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even know what this is like,
what do you think a transceident argument is?

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00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,240
Define transcendental? Jay? You said
it's not No, No, you

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00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,600
said that. You said that it's
not that, so so that means that

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00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,799
you know, and what is it? No, please go ahead and define

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00:10:39,799 --> 00:10:41,879
it the term for me. No, you already spoke as if you know.

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So I want you to tell me
what is the transcendental argument? I

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00:10:48,799 --> 00:10:50,519
don't know it, Jay, tell
me, oh right, so well then

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00:10:50,519 --> 00:10:52,840
why did you act like you knew? No? Maybe I do. I

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want to know your definition. I
want you now, I'm not going to

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00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:00,480
debate if you don't know, because
you played like you knew. So you're

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00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,559
not a good faith debater. You're
what I'm trying to do. And I'm

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00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,240
sure the audience can probably know the
audience is laughing at you, dude,

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00:11:07,639 --> 00:11:11,039
Yes they are. I can see. I can see the chat of about

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00:11:11,039 --> 00:11:18,519
seven hundred people laughing and calling you
a meltdown. So what's a transidental what's

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00:11:18,519 --> 00:11:26,039
a transcendental argument? What's a transcendental
argument? What is it? You said?

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00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,440
You said you you said you knew
what it was? What is a

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00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:39,039
transcendent argument? Silence? No,
don't what I'm trying to do what is

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00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,679
it what I'm trying to do with
them? So you don't actually know what

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00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,919
I'm trying. Everyone is laughing,
you see, it's all l O L

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00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,480
s. Look, you can try
to humiliate me into the corner. No,

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00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,159
you do this yourself, trying to
do this yourself. Have a conversation

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00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,919
about real words here. You said, you said that words, so you're

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not you're not gonna answer no,
words that are based in reality and not

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00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,279
transcendental, not above our heads.
That's not even what the word means.

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So you didn't know. So you
didn't know what a transcendental argument was,

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00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,240
but you played like you did.
That's not what it means. Okay,

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00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,799
fine, let me just say I
don't know what it means. Please define

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00:12:16,799 --> 00:12:20,000
it for me. Right. It's
a type of argumentation that comes out of

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Aristotle and Kant, where you prove
something by the impossibility of the contrary.

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The form, for example, is
X is the necessary precondition of why why

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therefore X. So that's how we
argue against any position that's agnostic or atheist,

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00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:39,320
by showing that they can't give an
account for their assumptions and their presubsitions

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or their use of logic. You
just said a lot of words, and

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00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:50,679
I'm sure philosophically it's all correct and
nice and tidy. Right, we're done,

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00:12:54,600 --> 00:13:09,279
Celton. Oh hey, yep,
my up. Sorry, there's a

193
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,240
Billy Jay, a big fan.
So I was thinking of the Sorry.

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00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:18,120
I listened to your revamped Theophanes what'
sure last night. I'm really excited from

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00:13:18,159 --> 00:13:24,480
that. I also went back and
watched the debate between Father Deacon and Ice

196
00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:30,480
in Mats Slick. It's also a
classic the So I guess this is it?

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00:13:30,799 --> 00:13:35,159
This is a since your question not
to not doggedly asking this when you

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00:13:35,159 --> 00:13:37,360
your last couple of callers you mentioned, Look, I just went to the

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00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:43,679
text and proved the trinity. That
smacked of me. The same issue that

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Masulik had is saying, let's just
go to the Bible and read it and

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it says when it says, because
I think the last caller was arguing,

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well, the Jews disagree with that, because I think, as Father de

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can for you, we all come
to the text. Let you escape.

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How would you escape that superficial comparison
that I just made. Yeah, it's

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a good question. So when we
say that the Protestant approach of well,

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I just go to the text and
the text mean what it says and says

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what it means. Typically, that's
just arguing as if all you need to

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do is like look at the Greek
and see what the Greek says. That

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doesn't mean that we can't look at
the Greek and see what the Greek says,

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or look at the text and see
what it says. It means that

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we have to do it holistically.
So, like I pointed out the beginning

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of last night's lecture, the Trinity
is not a doctrine necessarily that you're going

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to prove from like one verse or
from this thing over here. The Trinity

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will be known and proven holistically from
the canonical text as a whole. So

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you're going to do canonical interpretation.
And even Protestants tend to agree with this.

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So when I often point that out
about James White, I'm really just

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pointing out that James White's being inconsistent
with his own approach to the text and

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with his own belief in presubpositionalism and
kind of reading the things holistically. The

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only difference between us and the Protestant
that admits that there's a holistic canonical reading

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is that we don't strict that holistic
sense to just the Bible. We also

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include the attestation of the church,
fathers, the councils, uh, you

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know, the lives of the saints, the liturgy. So it's all a

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holistic thing and there's not like one
thing that you go to that's like the

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final thing, like oh, it's
just this Bible verse over here, or

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oh it's this thing over here.
But that doesn't mean that I can't go

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to the text and read the text. It doesn't mean I can't proof text.

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It doesn't mean I can't even quote
mine. It's just a question of

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a lot of times when people quote
mine, for example, they do it

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without the context, or they do
it out of context. So it's not

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quote mining or proof texting or going
to the text or anything like that.

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That's the problem. Dude. You
don't have to keep thumbing down. I'll

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bring you on. Man. I'm
not talking to you, Kelt, I'm

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talking to this other dude. That's
okay. Does that make Yeah? That

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makes sense. And that's what deconon
and I argued, is that you need

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to do your stricture holistically. But
also what was like the church the church

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testimony holistically? Okay, see as
you just you know, I'm wondering if

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it's all less down to the tang
argument here, if it's a cruci a

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Protestant, and did you and you
an Orthodox come in and you all holistically

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quote you know, the Torah plus
uh whatever is well in the case of

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the Jew, for example, if
he's only going to cite the Torah and

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the profits, then in that case
I would have to go into his accepted

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authority like Justin Martin does. Right
when Justin Martyr's debating would try for the

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Jew, he goes to the Old
Testament passages and tries to make his case

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from all the theophanies, just like
we do. I'm just imagining. So

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I read one hundred pages of Protestant
apologetics. Hundred pages is Orthodox apologetics.

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If there's equal content, you know, how do you do? You have

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to fall back and just saying,
look, you know, the church is

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inspired, it's the Orthodox Church from
history, we win by default. Well,

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No, if I was if I
was talking to a Protestant at that

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point, I would not grant that
he has the right canon or that he

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can even know what the canon is
apart from the attestation of the Church in

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history. So that's typically where I
take the canon debate at that point.

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Okay, yeah, so okay,
so even if even if you could with

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a problem, right, Okay,
so you know in juices, no,

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you're taking your reading back trinitarian stuff
into the Old Testament. Well, at

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that point I would say that first, modern Jewish scholarship, as I argued,

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because that's identical to the Muslim argument. Right, So if you watch

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the debate with Daniel Hikikachu, this
is where that debate went. Where I

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was like, well, first of
all, modern Jewish scholarship admits that ancient

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Hebrew revelation was not monolithically unitarian,
right, And then I would move to

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okay, and then if we look
at the text themselves, they do show

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multiplicity in God. So there's nothing
inherently wrong with going to the text.

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And I would just point out,
likeily we did last night, right,

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we went through you know, one
whole or two whole hours of just Theophanes

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in Genesis, probably I don't know
forty of them thirty Yeah, excellent,

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Okay, Yeah, I'm just trying
to get a better sense of you know,

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win, can you know, do
you quote unquote your study last night?

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Was just ga in the Bible right, or when to pull in the

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church funders, or when you need
to go to someone else's atomy. Well,

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I think that it's never wrong to
do that. It depends on the

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case and who you're debating with.
So again, if it's a Muslim,

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you know, uh, they're only
going to accept what they want out of

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the previous revelation. And so that's
why I like going to the argument of

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well are you consistent with prior revelation. If it's a Jew, They're only

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going to accept certain texts, so
I would be forced to go to their

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text, like Justin Martyr does with
Trifo. So it's kind of like the

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same point about well what about evidences, Like, if you're a transcendental argument

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proponent, are you against evidences?
Don't you always critique evidentialists? No,

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there's nothing wrong with evidences. In
fact, going to the texts are like

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evidences, right, So each of
these Theophany texts is a piece of evidence

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to make my case, and the
making of that case, unfortunately does require

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a more holistic perspective, whether it's
all the Old Testament or whether it's and

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the New Testament, or whether it's
the Old and New Testament and the teaching

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of the Church Fathers and the tradition
of the church. Like, that's the

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holistic context from which I'm being informed, But that doesn't mean that I can't

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use or do evidences. Does that
make sense? Yeah, that makes sense.

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And so last night, wasn't you
in a Bible in pre list?

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That was you with an appropriate scope
for the audience, But you have a

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back catalog of other avenues to do
to go through if you're argument targeting.

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Okay, fantastic, thanks so much. She Yeah, the point is not

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like can we can we go to
the Bible or not to prove things?

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Of course, like if you go
to thecumenical councils or if you read the

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Church Fathers, they're constantly citing the
scriptures to prove their positions. So proof

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texting itself is not a problem.
And even quote minding itself is by definition

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isn't wrong. But if you quote
mine out of context, then it's deceptive

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and misleading. It's a different thing. But also, yeah, it's really

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the paradigm that we're coming from and
how holistically we're informed. And so if

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we have a totality perspective, old
and New Testament and teaching of the Church

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and so forth. Then we're much
more capable. We have much much better

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tool set to correctly interpret the particulars. So each particular text again is going

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to be interpreted via our knowledge of
the whole text, right, and this

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is called canonical interpretation or holistic interpretation. Likewise, it's also going to be

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informed more than by more than just
the text themselves is also going to be

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right. The Council of Nicea Athanasius, their definitions of you know, eternal

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generation, et cetera, et cetera, all of those things are going to

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be part of my paradigm in my
presubposition when I read these texts. Absolutely

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admit that. But they're also not
just presuppositions. There's a reflectionive, symbiotic

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relationship between me reading the texts being
informed as a holistic thing, I mean

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going back and reading the text,
mean then also reading other texts and being

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informed in a holistic way. So
there's this this constant back and forth that

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is I think this process of revelation
and knowing God in part. Okay,

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so you've been raising your hand here, Faith alone wants to come on.

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Go ahead, got an on mute, go ahead. Did you raise your

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hand like twenty times? What's that
laughing at everything I said? Where you're

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00:21:44,079 --> 00:21:52,079
at? Did you turn your mic
permissions on? We can't hear you,

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dude, faith alone? Are you
there to come in? You were?

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00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:07,160
You were? You were losing it
there? Yeah? Hello, that's up?

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00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,200
Hell? Yeah? Why why are
you spreaking out? What's up?

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00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,440
Can you hear me? Yeah?
What's up? Why are you spaking out?

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Yeah? If you look in history
like Orthodoxy and Catholicism, you'll find

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that they were really dominated by Muslims
and they could never take the Holy Land.

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But the one people who could easily
is the Protestant Christians America UK.

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Faith alone, Christians, we easily
took the We slaughtered the Muslims. You

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00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:49,119
can't honestly think this guy's a troll. I'm serious, it's true. So

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he's literally gonna try to pick his
religion on quote taking the Promised Land by

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faith alone. I'm sorry, that's
just not even that's that's like below the

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tear of acceptable argentation. I can't
do it. Giefer. Yeah on new

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00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:21,240
dough. Hello, hey hey,
sorry, there's like a like a delay.

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So fine, So I don't know. I'm I'm a young kid.

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I'm an orthodox cetic human, and
I usually try not to argue with my

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like relatives, but they'll kind of
like come and like attack my faith,

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I guess, And so one of
them is a Catholic, and I just

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00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:51,000
wanted to know your take on so
a lot of the times when I've been

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00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:56,240
I've ever debated Catholics, And specifically
when my aunt was like pressing that orthodoxy,

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She's like just like she would ignore
them everything and just go to like

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00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:10,200
the Catholic position is more is better
for like conscious and like these other things

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00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,759
that have nothing to do with ecclesiology, and she would just keep going back

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00:24:12,759 --> 00:24:17,960
to that. I would just try
to, honestly avoid. I would try

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00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,960
to avoid these conversations with family members. There's just really no point in trying

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00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,039
to debate a family member. I
understand if they ask you questions and you

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00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:29,799
feel sort of on the defensive,
you want to And I'm not saying it's

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00:24:29,799 --> 00:24:33,480
always wrong too, but I would
just say, look, why don't you

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00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,279
just come check out church and notice
the difference between the liturgy at the Orthodox

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00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,200
Church than at your church, right, I mean, that's that's probably going

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00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:47,160
to do a lot better for your
aunt than logic and philosophy, Like an

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00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:52,240
aunt is probably going to be more
convinced by the aesthetics than you know.

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00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:57,319
Some argument. Now, Diana Henry, you were making a huge fuss yesterday.

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Do you want to come on and
make your arguments about why it's okay

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to pray in mosques as a as
a as a so called Christian All right,

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00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:11,960
I mean you're in the chat.
You said you wanted to come chat,

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00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:30,720
so you're invited to speak, Alpha
or Diane. Diane, you want

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00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,039
to go first? Yeah, it's
Diana, Thanks for having me. I

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00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:41,039
was just trying to make the point
that you know, you're understanding that charity

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basically love and it's like the other
side of well, I should hold on

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00:25:49,279 --> 00:25:56,960
Alpha, let her speak. I
mean, hold on. If you look

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00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,799
at history, only America in the
UK was able to destroy the Ottomans take

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the Holy Land. The Catholics failed, the Orthodox failed, their captured.

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00:26:04,039 --> 00:26:14,240
This is all only people who could
take Go ahead, Diana, why is

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00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:18,279
he on stage if he's mental?
How much? How am I? I

360
00:26:18,319 --> 00:26:23,160
don't know who these people are?
Okay, So yeah, that was basically

361
00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:26,440
my common I understand you. I
don't know why you deleted your post.

362
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,279
I didn't want. I didn't want
I didn't want to give attention to some

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00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,799
of those people. So why is
it uncharitable to talk about what your own

364
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,440
church teaches? No, I'm not
saying that you can talk about whatever you

365
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,960
want. I mean, that's part
of logic. Where's the uncharitable part?

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Is that not being able to accept
other people where they are and that their

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faith tradition that they were brought up
in, and these are strongly held religious

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00:26:52,319 --> 00:26:56,279
beliefs. And maybe perhaps if you
consider though, I mean I was born

369
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,559
Catholic. I don't know if you
were, but if I was born Muslim

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00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,440
or say Jewish or something like that, but that has nothing to do with

371
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,599
whether it's for false And how does
that make me uncharitable? Where's the lack

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of charity on owners? Sam?
Well? Understanding where someone's coming from?

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00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:14,559
Though? Hold on, hold on, I've debated I used to be a

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00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:15,799
Roman Catholic And let me just finish, well, why do you think I

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00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:18,920
don't understand where they're coming or got
I've we've debated the top Muslims out there,

376
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,960
and we'veuld debate I used to be
a Roman Catholic, So what do

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00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,039
you mean, No, I'm not. My whole point is if you were

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00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,000
born Muslims say, because I've met
other people from other faith traditions and I

379
00:27:30,079 --> 00:27:33,119
was born Catholic, so I was
I'm one of the lucky ones, right,

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00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,559
But they have these strongly held religious
beliefs. And how I came to

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00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:42,680
this conclusion though here on Twitter,
I started following the Komanie Right. They

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00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,559
all call Americans or America the great
Saint, and they're right if you look

383
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:49,960
at like what's going on in Hollywood, what we support, all our laws,

384
00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:55,799
abortion, same sex marriage, all
that they are. They are genuinely

385
00:27:56,079 --> 00:28:02,480
trying in their own way, from
their own upbringing what know right, And

386
00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:06,920
so you have to meet people where
they are. And there's another but we

387
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,480
do that all the time. We
do that all the time because we I

388
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,400
mean this is I've been doing this
for about six years, of these open

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00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,640
spaces where anybody can come in and
make any arguments they want. So I

390
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,519
just failed to see how that's not
meeting people where they are. Well,

391
00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:22,640
no, I'm trying to make the
association that that's what the pope is trying

392
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,000
to do. No, No,
that has that's a false analogy, because

393
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,960
your own papal documents forbid you to
go and participate in the religious services of

394
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,839
other groups and other religions. Okay, so this is exactly my point,

395
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:40,119
Jaye. Okay, so what charity
actually means he's trying to reach out to

396
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:41,839
other people. That's not what he's
doing. That's not what he's doing.

397
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,880
You don't know that. I do
know that because he said, because he

398
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:51,759
has said not to proselytize these people. Well, so the Catholic Church teaches

399
00:28:51,839 --> 00:28:55,440
though it's all about your actions,
right and being an example and all,

400
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,160
that's not true. It's also it's
also about your actions in terms of what

401
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,240
you publicly really religiously do, such
as praying towards Moss, praying and most

402
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,119
towards Mecca. You understand that that's
an action of apostasy in your own theology.

403
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,200
So if you believe that God,
so you're not you don't you're not

404
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:12,960
gonna you don't think that that's the
case. I answer. I'm trying to

405
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,160
answer your point. Let me,
do you do you believe that your church

406
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,200
teaches that or not that teaches to
do things? Would it have written back

407
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:29,240
whatever you reference because I'm not a
historian. Yeah, so mortaliam Animos says

408
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,640
that if you go and participate in
other church services or other religious services,

409
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,559
that it's a surrendering of the Catholic
faith and it's an action of apostasy.

410
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,559
And you're telling me, you're telling
me here, no, it doesn't count

411
00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:47,079
because he's there to evangelize him.
That's not true because both of these popes

412
00:29:47,119 --> 00:29:48,960
are a Chumenists, the last two
that have gone into mosque, and they

413
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:56,240
actually say not to proselytize sullen if
like before Jesus, okay, you had

414
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,599
Plato soccer. So you're not going
to address that. That's irrelevant to this

415
00:30:00,119 --> 00:30:03,920
two. I'm trying to if you
let me finish my point, but it

416
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:11,400
doesn't matter because your church always because
of what you're because that's that's an irrelevant

417
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:17,319
point. It finish my point,
No, because it's not relevant. You

418
00:30:17,359 --> 00:30:19,119
can finish the point all you want, but that point is not relevant.

419
00:30:21,559 --> 00:30:25,079
If your church says in nineteen twenty
eight you can't do this, you can't

420
00:30:25,119 --> 00:30:29,079
go back to well in the Old
Testament period they believe in a Unitarian God,

421
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,759
like, that's not relevant to the
fact that in nineteen twenty eight.

422
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:36,279
It says you can't do this,
and then it's a surrending of the faith.

423
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:45,319
So all that tells me is that
it's a contradiction. Marincus, I

424
00:30:45,319 --> 00:30:49,599
agree, yep. I just had
a quick question. Obviously we've been critiquing

425
00:30:49,599 --> 00:30:55,279
in the Roman Catholic system. If
you have dogmas contradicting each other, and

426
00:30:55,319 --> 00:31:00,279
that would be a it would falsify
the whole system. I'm just want wondering

427
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,279
if there's anything that would falsify the
Orthodox system or if you would appeal to

428
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:11,599
tag kind of making it unfalsifiable because
you have to lose your basis for knowledge

429
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,079
at all. So I'm just curious
what you talk about that. Well.

430
00:31:14,079 --> 00:31:17,880
I mean, I have to believe
that there's not any position that would destroy

431
00:31:18,519 --> 00:31:22,319
the Orthodox faith, but that doesn't
mean that I'm saying it's unfalsifiable. Un

432
00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:26,799
Falsifiability is like a thing where you
construct a system that's it's like a trick,

433
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:33,440
right where for example, if you're
a Marxist, Marxism is unfalsifiable because

434
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,599
if you if you critique Marxism,
all of your arguments are invalidated because only

435
00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:44,039
a bourgeois person would critique Marxism.
So you see how that makes like the

436
00:31:44,079 --> 00:31:48,839
system unfalsifiable. So unfalsifiability is a
weakness in a system. It's not something

437
00:31:48,839 --> 00:31:53,200
that you want to try to construct
for your system, right, I gotcha.

438
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,359
So no, I don't think.
I don't think Orthodoxy is unfalsifiable.

439
00:31:56,759 --> 00:32:01,799
I just think that it's true.
Gotcha. Okay, Yeah, that's it.

440
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:07,480
Yeah, that's a good question.
I do think, by the way,

441
00:32:07,519 --> 00:32:10,799
that the way they construct the proofs
and arguments for the papacy, they

442
00:32:10,799 --> 00:32:15,119
try to make it unfalsifiable. And
so in that sense, it's very similar

443
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:22,200
to Marxists talk koon. By the
way, if I got to spport the

444
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,480
tream, you can do so vi
super chats, go ahead, Hey,

445
00:32:25,559 --> 00:32:30,319
Jake, can you hear me?
Hey? I just wanted to get up

446
00:32:30,319 --> 00:32:35,319
here. I'm an Orthodox catechumen,
but I had a question because I had

447
00:32:35,359 --> 00:32:40,839
a conversation with the Roman Catholic and
they brought up the point that Constantinople fell

448
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,799
and fell when it was UNI eight. Yeah, but it fell when it

449
00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:50,680
was UNI eight. So they don't
ever mention that, do they. Yeah,

450
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,319
So they use that as a point
of like Hell shall not prevail over

451
00:32:53,359 --> 00:32:57,960
the church, and because it's a
mosque. But that's like a you know,

452
00:32:58,119 --> 00:33:02,079
a way to prove their point.
Wait, their argument number one,

453
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,480
we don't view Constantinople like the Vatican, so that's a dumb, like super

454
00:33:07,759 --> 00:33:12,640
like you argument. And by the
way, the Vatican wasn't the pope at

455
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:20,440
one time locked up in the Vatican
when the Masons took Rome, so does

456
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,519
that invalidate Rome. Haven't Roman Catholics
lost battles to Muslims? And this is

457
00:33:23,559 --> 00:33:29,279
such a stupid argument. So basically
all this means is that I can arbitrarily

458
00:33:29,319 --> 00:33:35,279
interpret events in history to be proofs
of Catholicism based on historical blessings and cursings.

459
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:38,680
However, if you read Augustine's City
of God, the entire apologetic that

460
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:45,039
Augustine is making against the Romans is
to deny that principle that historical collapses and

461
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:49,799
falls of empires prove or disprove the
religion. That's the whole apologetic of City

462
00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:52,000
of God. So it's very stupid
of Roman Catholics to sort of use that

463
00:33:52,079 --> 00:33:55,640
as some sort of divine sign.
And by the way, when we point

464
00:33:55,680 --> 00:34:02,880
out that the Roman Catholic Church is
full of creeps, PDFs and weirdos and

465
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:08,039
that it's in a crisis. Oh
guess what suddenly that proves their church because

466
00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:12,320
only the true church would be persecuted
and infiltrated. So you see how that's

467
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:19,239
a that's a great example of the
very unfalsifiability that we just mentioned. Og

468
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:30,239
man, yoj can you hear me? Okay, there's a small delight.

469
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:36,519
So I was an atheist. First
of all, thank you so much for

470
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:40,239
the things you put online, for
all the free work that you put for

471
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,360
us. I mean, I don't
think there's anyone online that do the things

472
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:52,199
you do, So thank you very
much. I was an atheist like since

473
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,559
I was twelve, and I stopped
doing an eighties like two years ago,

474
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:05,559
much because because told you pretty much. But my question is on take It's

475
00:35:05,599 --> 00:35:10,719
a really simple question, is okay, why or how do you place God

476
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:17,039
in the exposition? It's basically that
thank you in the exposition? Or you

477
00:35:17,119 --> 00:35:20,760
mean, like where in the argument
is God? What do you mean?

478
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:27,000
Yeah, why how do you place
scot there? Why can't you place something

479
00:35:27,159 --> 00:35:34,599
like a like a force that you
we didn't discover yet or something like Yeah,

480
00:35:34,599 --> 00:35:36,360
I see what you're saying. That's
a good question, right. So

481
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,800
the way I would answer that is, like the specifically the Christian metaphysic,

482
00:35:40,639 --> 00:35:45,920
uh, it posits a unique type
of deity that the other world religions don't

483
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:52,679
have. So, for example,
the world a metaphysic where God is uncreated

484
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,400
and the creation is distinct from him, and yet he's present in the world,

485
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,719
and yet he's one and many,
and yet he had as intentionality for

486
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:06,559
the world. The world has tellos
or purpose. Those aspects of the Christian

487
00:36:06,559 --> 00:36:12,519
metaphysics, for example, they disprove
or they resolve the problems where you don't

488
00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:16,079
have a world or universe with purpose
or intention. In philosophy, that's called

489
00:36:16,159 --> 00:36:22,599
disteleological or it's a disteleological or universe, meaning that the universe doesn't have purpose.

490
00:36:22,199 --> 00:36:25,679
If God quote unquote was just an
immaterial force, then there would not

491
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:30,599
be intentional direction or end of the
universe. It would just be random.

492
00:36:30,639 --> 00:36:35,840
It would be what's called accidentalism.
And if there's accidentalism that rules, then

493
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,880
we really can't have any coherence or
meaning at all, basically destroys the possibility

494
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,239
of order, structure, and meaning
in the world, in the universe.

495
00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:47,159
So that's just one example from teleology, but we also have like a basis

496
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:52,719
for grounding universals and particulars. We
would have a basis for regularity of nature,

497
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:57,960
and so we wouldn't be subjected to
the critiques of David human skeptics.

498
00:36:58,039 --> 00:37:00,840
Right. So these are some examples, you know, the immaterial, immateriality

499
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:06,159
of abstract objects, numbers, et
cetera. All of those things. If

500
00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:08,519
you take them and put them them
into a big ball, all those metaphysical

501
00:37:08,559 --> 00:37:15,000
principles that are needed to have a
coherent worldview. What grounds that? Well,

502
00:37:15,039 --> 00:37:21,400
the trying God. That's what worldview
his system proclaims to have. And

503
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,760
so therefore that would be the philosophical
argument, and that's the God that we

504
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:30,119
want to then come to know,
Father Moses, does you want to speak?

505
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,559
I just was going to pick up
with what you were saying earlier in

506
00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:38,280
the at the beginning. Sure,
I got my grub on, but didn't

507
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:44,599
dig out. Finally got call my
wife one a day ago, hit the

508
00:37:44,639 --> 00:37:47,800
corner of the hit the dough,
thinking well I live another twenty five Yeah.

509
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,199
Literally, every morning that's what I
wake up to. I'm just jogging.

510
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,760
I don't think that every more.
No, I was I circling back

511
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,880
on what you were saying just a
minutego. It's like something we've often talked

512
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,800
about, which is like the whole
parameter of making sense of Catholicism require you

513
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:09,239
to basically acquire a cult cultic mindset, right where where every everything that would

514
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:14,199
disprove it or does not align itself
with reality in any way, shape or

515
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:19,480
form, even common sense is actually
utilized as a defense, yeah, for

516
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:25,480
why it's correct. And it's just
you can't do that without suspending all kinds

517
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:30,679
of you know, rational thought and
and like I said, common sense,

518
00:38:30,679 --> 00:38:34,559
which you often find in cultic movements, and really it's what you find in

519
00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:38,159
the culture today, you know,
it's the it's the the occult kind of

520
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:43,400
idea of one plus one equals three. Right, So you're always having to

521
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,840
sign of supersede anything logical in order
to make sense of it. So anyways,

522
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,960
that was it. No, I
think I'm glad that you mentioned that

523
00:38:52,039 --> 00:38:55,320
cult aspect because I brought that up. I can't rememberf it was yesterday,

524
00:38:55,360 --> 00:39:00,280
the day before that. The more
I think about it, the more it

525
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:05,559
does seem like a cult. And
that's not to say that every individual Roman

526
00:39:05,599 --> 00:39:08,400
Cawtholic is a bad person. Or
bad willed. I think that you're kind

527
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:14,840
of over time you manifest yourself as
either bad willed when you confront these these

528
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,360
topics and you keep doubling down,
tripling down, and trying to sort of

529
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,440
make sense of this miasma, this
like this insane sort of like it's like

530
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:30,320
a stained glass window with all the
pieces all out of order, and you're

531
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,400
trying to make it into some sob
well, see look over your kind it's

532
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,639
kind of makes sense if you look
at this angle and it's it's like seeing

533
00:39:37,639 --> 00:39:39,039
things in the clouds, like it
doesn't work, it's not really there.

534
00:39:39,519 --> 00:39:44,239
But you're trying to like piece this
thing together like a puzzle in a weird

535
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:49,239
way to make it fit. And
to do that it requires a lot of

536
00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:53,639
leaps gymnastics, shutting off your brain
and like father most has said, kind

537
00:39:53,679 --> 00:39:57,920
of rejecting what's right in front of
your face. I mean, everybody can

538
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,679
see right here, Francis is literally
in the moss praying towards Mecca. And

539
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,840
it should be like obvious right here
that you can't do that. If you're

540
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,840
a Christian, there's no way you
would even do that. And so all

541
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,920
of these quote loopholes notice that we
have multiple Catholics said, well, there's

542
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:15,960
loopholes to where you can do this. This is just really this is like

543
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:21,639
this. I saw this video the
other day where the one of the Hasidic

544
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:27,679
Jews was like they'd invented a light
switch, and the light switch. You

545
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,440
turn the light switch because you can't
work on the Sabbath, and if you're

546
00:40:30,519 --> 00:40:34,199
to flick a switch, that would
be working on the Sabbath. And so

547
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,199
the switch is set up to where
there's a random signal that fires to shut

548
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:44,559
off. So you're not actually by
removing the barrier to the electrical signal,

549
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,599
you're not actually turning it off,
but you're actually turning a switch, but

550
00:40:50,639 --> 00:40:53,599
you're not doing the work because you're
not physically the cause of the light going

551
00:40:53,639 --> 00:40:57,239
off. So this is the absurd. This is like, this is literal

552
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,519
Roman Catholic thinking, the identical levels
of thinking. I saw another one where

553
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:07,599
one of the rabbinical uh rulings was
that you can walk a certain amount of

554
00:41:07,679 --> 00:41:13,800
steps inside on the Sabbath, but
you can't go outside. And so what

555
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,199
the Hasidic Jews in the neighborhoods of
New York have done is put a string

556
00:41:19,039 --> 00:41:23,559
around a giant section to make it
enclosed. This is outside, so like

557
00:41:23,559 --> 00:41:30,960
there's stringing string from light posts outside
to then say that now it's enclosed because

558
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,360
there's a string. And this is
what leads to this whole idea of like,

559
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,320
well I can actually trick God.
Right, that's the mindset, that's

560
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:43,119
like the rabbinical mindset of like,
well I can. I've got these loopholes

561
00:41:43,119 --> 00:41:47,400
that will allow me to like skirt
the issue. And it's exactly what's going

562
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,480
on here. What we say,
what do we hear in the first hour,

563
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,440
Well, there's a bunch of loopholes. Right. So he's going and

564
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:59,199
praying in the moss towards Mecca,
but he's actually privately praying for their conversion.

565
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:02,199
Now we don't actually know that,
but people are saying, well,

566
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:07,519
I think that's what he's up to. Okay, but you can't do this,

567
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,280
like this action itself is something you
can't do. Go ahead, Yeah,

568
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,679
I was gonna say. Yeah.
Two things with that. Number one

569
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,800
is when I was eighteen or so, I worked at Starbucks and we used

570
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,119
to have these Jews that would come
in and they would they would you know,

571
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,079
be coming in on Sabbath and they
can't pay for anything, so they

572
00:42:25,119 --> 00:42:29,360
would put money on top. This
is not a joke. They would put

573
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,400
money on top of their head,
underneath the hat, and then when they

574
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,400
came into Starbucks, they would order
the drink, take the hat off,

575
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:42,000
and then lean their head towards the
counter, so the money would fall off

576
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,199
of the top of their head onto
the counter. This is not a joke,

577
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:49,119
okay. Like, and I mean
at the time, you're like,

578
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,400
you're not You're not fooling God.
Yeah, like you're you know, it's

579
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,519
not like it's this is not a
game. You know. It's like you

580
00:42:55,559 --> 00:43:00,320
think about your relationship with your own
children, and when you tell your children

581
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,000
to do something, you're like,
look, it's the spirit of what I'm

582
00:43:02,039 --> 00:43:07,119
telling you to do, not X, Y and Z minutia so that you

583
00:43:07,159 --> 00:43:10,760
can find a loophole in what I'm
instructing you to do. And it's also

584
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,440
interesting. I was talking with a
really nice, young, young Roman Catholic

585
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,960
guy yesterday on the phone and he
was, you know, we were talking

586
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,760
about Roman Catholic priesthood and he was
basically saying, how you know, it's

587
00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:29,199
hard to kind of relate to these
priests. So then he got into you

588
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:34,000
know, uh uh, you know, aren't you married, but aren't you

589
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:37,119
married to the church and then you're
married to your wife? And that isn't

590
00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:39,280
that kind of like polygamy? And
I'm like, buddy, I'm like,

591
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:46,800
you've you've cultivated a priesthood that's full
of guys who don't want to be married

592
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:52,440
and or have very peculiar desires.
Right, you've you've you've gotten rid of

593
00:43:53,039 --> 00:43:58,920
all the normal, healthy males who
want to have relationships with women. And

594
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,880
by the way, by the way, Father Moses, everybody's sort of jumping

595
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:07,480
on this. Oh, Francis said
something bays the other day about skittles in

596
00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:13,639
the seminary. However, that did
everybody miss the point that this actually is

597
00:44:13,679 --> 00:44:16,360
an admission of the critique that we're
making. So basically, Francis is admitting,

598
00:44:16,599 --> 00:44:21,159
yeah, there's a skittles everywhere in
the seminaries. That's exactly what we've

599
00:44:21,199 --> 00:44:22,960
been saying. And then, by
the way, and then by the way,

600
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:28,000
he walked it back within twenty four
hours, he apologized for it.

601
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:30,119
What's so crazy is you can say
it, you can say you can go,

602
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:35,079
hey, the seminaries are full of
these type of men who are interested

603
00:44:35,079 --> 00:44:37,719
in these type of proclivities and everybody
goes, no, no, you're over.

604
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:43,519
You know you're over. Yeah,
your literal pope just said the same

605
00:44:43,639 --> 00:44:47,280
thing. You don't think that he
has better he doesn't know, Yeah,

606
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,840
he doesn't know that, he doesn't
he's got better information on he said,

607
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,599
it's full of them. It's full
of them. So what's interesting even in

608
00:44:54,599 --> 00:45:00,679
that is that you have this priesthood
that is completely detached from reality, meaning

609
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:06,039
that they're not there, they don't
have normal desires for women, they're not

610
00:45:06,199 --> 00:45:09,480
married, they don't have children,
and yet that they're literally that's going to

611
00:45:09,519 --> 00:45:15,920
produce the better priesthood because they're more
committed. And yet when you actually talk,

612
00:45:15,079 --> 00:45:19,880
like when I talk to, you
know, a young Roman Catholic guy,

613
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,960
it's like they know the things that
I'm telling them pertain way more to

614
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,599
their life because they know that I'm
married, that I have a wife,

615
00:45:28,599 --> 00:45:30,400
that I've been where they've been,
and that I'm going that they want to

616
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,159
go in the same direction that I
go in. You know. Again,

617
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,559
but you have to kind of turn
your brain off and say, well,

618
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:42,320
the celibate guy who's not interested in
women is actually the higher choice for the

619
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,119
priesthood. So I'm like, buddy, you know this is you can't you

620
00:45:46,159 --> 00:45:52,519
can't get good spiritual direction from guys
who don't even understand your way of life,

621
00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:54,000
are not even interested in it,
you know what I'm saying. I

622
00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:59,079
don't think that a lot of Roman
Catholics even think of this as spiritual direction.

623
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:00,519
I mean, I think a lot
of the people, I think a

624
00:46:00,519 --> 00:46:02,719
lot of the people that we've been
acting with in the past few days,

625
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:12,239
for example, they see this as
like Bayse trad political movement. Really yeah,

626
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,400
a lot of a lot of the
Twitter tradcat sphere is all about like,

627
00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:20,239
no, I'm here because of you
know, uh Pepe the Frog and

628
00:46:20,559 --> 00:46:24,119
uh, you know bayse trad political
stuff. I mean, the first guy

629
00:46:24,159 --> 00:46:27,639
that came on, the guy that
was here for the first hour, was

630
00:46:27,679 --> 00:46:30,719
basically saying, well, I got
into all this stuff from like the right

631
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:36,039
wing sphere. So how do they
so just in your experience day, how

632
00:46:36,079 --> 00:46:42,119
do they reconcile that with what they
actually encounter in you know, in reality.

633
00:46:42,159 --> 00:46:45,119
Well, but see that That's the
thing is like, the idea of

634
00:46:45,159 --> 00:46:50,039
this as a base trad right wing
political movement is more important than any of

635
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:54,920
this theological stuff. So it's not
even really about it's not even about Christ.

636
00:46:57,039 --> 00:47:00,960
It's about politics being based being trad
you know, spouting off on Twitter.

637
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:06,480
That's what it's about. Interesting.
I mean with a lot of these

638
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:07,440
people. Now some of these people, you know, they try to take

639
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:14,880
it serious. But yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I gotta process that.

640
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,719
I'm again, I'm when we talk
about Roman Catholicism, like, I

641
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,320
don't know the system from the inside, having never been Catholic. I only

642
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:27,719
know it from interacting with people who
were formerly Roman Catholic or people who are

643
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:32,519
actively Roman Catholic. And there just
seems to be such a disconnect from like,

644
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:37,880
right, I think within Becautholicism,
there's a lot, it's all over

645
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,400
the place. So you've got like
Thomas Merton types that are doing Zen Buddhist

646
00:47:42,519 --> 00:47:49,840
meditation. You've got you know,
want to be LARPing medieval Scholastics that think

647
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,360
that Roman Catholicism is Tomism even though
the Vatican hasn't cared about Tomism for the

648
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:58,280
last seventy years. You've got you
know, trad cats that see it as

649
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,239
like a dogmatic list of propositions that
you believe. You've got Roman Catholics obsessed

650
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:07,360
with fatima and visions and apparitions.
It's all over the place. And then

651
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:13,360
you've got a sizeable portion of recent
converts via Candice you know, other people

652
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,760
online and for them it's base pat
trad political movement. That's all it is.

653
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,760
Got it, got it? Yeah, it's it's funny. How uh,

654
00:48:23,119 --> 00:48:30,639
it's funny how how you know Protestant
Catholicism is exactly, It's like it's

655
00:48:30,639 --> 00:48:36,920
the umbrella that kind of houses all
these different people that are not even ideologically

656
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:42,119
or theologically on the same page,
but all underneath the umbrella of like we're

657
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:44,760
all the same thing, and yet
they're not so well. I mean,

658
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,800
that's what that was the whole premise
of uniotism too, right, Uniits were

659
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,519
told you can believe whatever you want, believe whatever you want about polla Mos

660
00:48:51,519 --> 00:48:54,599
and all these people and energies just
believe in and submit to the pope.

661
00:48:55,719 --> 00:49:02,480
So it's always been kind of a
political geopolitically motivated. Do you think I

662
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,000
mean, I know this maybe will
be off topic a little bit, but

663
00:49:06,039 --> 00:49:09,199
do you think that like the way
that we see let's say, some three

664
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:16,159
letter agencies weaving their hands into what's
going on in Ukraine and the ep and

665
00:49:16,199 --> 00:49:22,559
whatnot. Do you feel that there's
that same type of influence that is subtly

666
00:49:22,599 --> 00:49:27,840
being exerted within Roman Catholicism or do
you think that it's at the higher levels

667
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,719
of Vatican levels and whatever else.
It's kind of there's in a meshed kind

668
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:37,719
of deep state program where people are
kind of moving or guiding the church in

669
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:43,000
a certa quote unquote church in a
certain direction that has their interests in mind.

670
00:49:43,559 --> 00:49:46,400
All the above, I think that
if you go back to the Gregorian

671
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:52,599
Reforms of the eleventh century, the
papacy explicitly started saying that you have to

672
00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:55,440
believe in their temporal supremacy, that
is, worldly power to be saved.

673
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,840
If you don't believe in the worldly
power of the pope, you're not saying.

674
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,519
That's when I'm sounked them, which
is that's a couple of centuries after

675
00:50:01,559 --> 00:50:07,280
the Gregoing reforms, but Gregoing Reforms
of Dictatus Papi is where it begins.

676
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,360
That's the famous document where the Pope's
basically saying that I'm the Quezaus hotter Rock.

677
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,639
And then I think it develops for
a long time into where we are

678
00:50:15,679 --> 00:50:20,039
now, to where you know,
in the twentieth century, there was a

679
00:50:20,079 --> 00:50:24,920
lot of deep state influence, and
that's well documented by Catholics like David Wimhoff.

680
00:50:25,679 --> 00:50:29,039
So I think that both things are
going on where it's kind of like

681
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:34,280
it's all the above. So do
you think that, like some of the

682
00:50:34,519 --> 00:50:39,920
quote unquote more liberal streams that are
happening within Catholicism are the direct byproduct of

683
00:50:42,039 --> 00:50:47,840
the state sponsored influence and participation basically
in the kind of pushing up the agenda

684
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:53,400
the direction I think. I think
that the trad version and the lib version

685
00:50:53,440 --> 00:51:00,559
of Catholicism are both part of the
overall agenda, and that the papacy does

686
00:51:00,599 --> 00:51:05,840
a constant bureaucratic two step of what
he usually does is he will do ten

687
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,519
steps forward, two steps back,
and that's a that's a classic bureaucrat move.

688
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,559
So I don't I don't think that
that. I mean, I think

689
00:51:14,599 --> 00:51:20,480
there's a lot of traditional Catholics who
legitimately oppose Francis, But I don't think

690
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,000
at the top, I think it's
really a controlled and managed geopolitical entity.

691
00:51:24,119 --> 00:51:29,239
Yes, it's a captured institution,
is what I'd say. When you see

692
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,880
people who are kind of in this
cultic mindset where they they've kind of had

693
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:36,400
a you know, I hate to
say if I kind of brainwash themselves into

694
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,920
accepting these things, especially if her
Catholics say that, you know, if

695
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:44,840
they leave the Catholic Church right there
are doomed to tradition. So there's right

696
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:52,480
this kind of ultimate kind of sort
of damnicles hanging over their head that they

697
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,719
have to accept even what they don't
want to accept, for fear of losing

698
00:51:55,719 --> 00:52:02,280
eternal salvation. What do you think
is the most powerful or compelling reason or

699
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:07,719
argument that you've seen with with people
actually breaking three of Catholic Well, I

700
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,320
can remember having that exact same thought. I remember having that exact same thought,

701
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,599
and then and then, and what
broke me out of that was at

702
00:52:14,599 --> 00:52:17,719
a certain point you realize, well, if God really does love me,

703
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:22,000
and if God love is the is
the lover of mankind, as the liturgy

704
00:52:22,039 --> 00:52:28,480
says, then why would he want
and expect me to constantly accept and submit

705
00:52:28,559 --> 00:52:34,000
to these you know, ridiculously wicked
people. So, for example, there

706
00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:38,719
was a certain bishop at that time
who this was like two thousand and four

707
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:43,119
or five somewhere in there, and
there was there was a Romancaolic bishop who

708
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:46,800
had done something very notorious, scandalous, and it related to a lot of

709
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:52,199
the PDF stuff, right, And
so a discussion came up and the question

710
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:53,920
was, well, so, wait
a minute, do I still have to

711
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:59,239
go submit to the PDF. Let's
say, for the sake of argument,

712
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:02,360
we've got a noteorious PDF bishop.
Right, you know what I mean,

713
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:08,760
right, po, So I'm still
bound Jesus expects me to go submit to

714
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:14,519
that man as the representative of Christ
and to bring my children to him and

715
00:53:14,519 --> 00:53:16,800
to be catechized by them and so
forth. And many Roman Catholics are saying

716
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,559
yeah. And at that point I
was like, okay, this is ridiculous.

717
00:53:22,079 --> 00:53:25,039
There's no way Jesus would expect me
to take my children to a notorious

718
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:35,000
PDF bishop. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, okay, interesting,

719
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,199
okay cool? Well yeah, And
I think the reason that and I know

720
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:42,320
that like many Roman Cathalis, so
well, we don't believe that you shouldn't

721
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,920
do that. But my point is
that their approach to the legitimacy of the

722
00:53:47,039 --> 00:53:52,400
Church and the sacraments and so forth, they have completely divorced morals from the

723
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:57,280
sacraments, right, And so what
they think is donatism, It's not donatism.

724
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:00,480
I mean they actually think that like, you can be orda aimed as

725
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:05,000
a Romancolic priest, and that next
day you can go out and start uh.

726
00:54:05,159 --> 00:54:07,800
You can become a Satanist. The
very next day you can spend the

727
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:12,320
rest of your life consecrating the host
to blasphem it. And that's all still

728
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,239
a real operation because they actually think
it's almost like a magical, magical approach,

729
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:22,440
and it's like they worship the authority
to the extent that there's nothing that

730
00:54:22,519 --> 00:54:27,840
can remove that power and that authority
even if that person and it's getting now

731
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:30,440
to the point where it's like,
even if the pope's a complete apostate,

732
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:34,480
like he still is, he still
has that authority. And there's there's a

733
00:54:34,559 --> 00:54:37,079
quote I think from Catherine of Cna
in the Middle Ages, and and I

734
00:54:37,079 --> 00:54:40,920
think it sums up this whole mindset, and it's something like, even if

735
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:45,679
the Pope were to be the devil
himself, I would still submit to the

736
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:50,719
Pope. That's how, that's that's
how, that's the ultimate expression of authority

737
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:58,800
worship. Now, from what I
understand with that to the understanding is that

738
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:04,519
in the Ordin there's actually an ontological
change, right right, But what we

739
00:55:04,559 --> 00:55:09,519
wouldn't say is orthodox that if you
apostatize and you go out and start that's

740
00:55:09,559 --> 00:55:15,400
what that's the difference. Yeah,
but that's there. Yeah, That's what

741
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:20,199
I'm saying, is that in Catholicism, the quote unquote because yeah, can

742
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,159
you hear me, can you hear
me? Yeah, you go ahead,

743
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,239
I was gonna say, yeah,
that's what I from my understanding, Yeah,

744
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:32,679
my understanding was that in Catholicism,
the teaching basically that it's essentially an

745
00:55:32,679 --> 00:55:38,119
ontological change for the person being ordained
was one of the reasons why all of

746
00:55:38,159 --> 00:55:44,360
the grievous misconduct that happened. They
didn't actually lay assize any of those priests,

747
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,639
or they didn't kind of reprimand that
they just moved them around because ontologically

748
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:52,840
they had been changed from a normal
person quote unquote into a priest, and

749
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,960
so therefore that priest it could never
be taken away from them or something.

750
00:55:59,119 --> 00:56:01,719
Even if you get it, even
if you get defrocked, you're forever a

751
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:08,400
priest. You're just not in their
terminology, you would not be licit.

752
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:15,000
So it's still you're still confecting the
Eucharist, You're still doing all the full

753
00:56:15,039 --> 00:56:19,119
functions of the priest. You're just
not doing it an illicit way, but

754
00:56:19,159 --> 00:56:22,920
it's all still valid. That's their
view, and so that was part of

755
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:31,079
the reason why they didn't take that
that and I think there's other things going

756
00:56:31,119 --> 00:56:35,519
on. I think some of these
people were part of networks that had powerful

757
00:56:35,559 --> 00:56:39,320
support. I think that some of
these people. Uh, there's also they've

758
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:44,559
had at certain points a severe lack
of priests to go around because people don't

759
00:56:44,599 --> 00:56:47,760
want to join the Roman Catholic priests. That's why a lot of Roman Catholic

760
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:54,400
diocese in America now they've all they've
imported all Nigerians to be priests. Oh

761
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:58,639
really, I didn't even know that. No, they have a severe shortage,

762
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:04,480
Okay, and American Americans don't want
to do it essentially, No,

763
00:57:05,519 --> 00:57:12,480
No, there's vocations to seminaries have
plummeted since Vatican Two. Interesting except in

764
00:57:12,559 --> 00:57:19,320
like Africa, so and so forgive
me, but somebody who's in Africa basically

765
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,920
gets a full ride, gets to
go to America, gets to have a

766
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:27,280
quote unquote stabilized normal life and kind
of a way out of Yeah. Okay,

767
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:31,880
got it, Yeah, got it. Now I've got some energy to

768
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,639
keep going. We'll keep going.
With some of the people that are in

769
00:57:35,639 --> 00:57:37,400
line, because some of you guys
have been waiting for a while. We

770
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:38,800
do have to remind you that we
have a sponsor. And also I'm going

771
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:43,320
to go T T to the little
girls on but this is our show.

772
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:47,679
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798
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:05,559
You gotta unmute? Andrew? Hi? Thank you so Hi? Can

799
01:00:05,559 --> 01:00:08,599
you hear me? Yeah? I
was just listening to the conversation with the

800
01:00:08,679 --> 01:00:16,840
gentleman. I think his name is
father Mosas Moses, and I just have

801
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:21,440
a couple of questions. So I
would like to know in the history of

802
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:27,840
the Orthodox Church, how many hospitals, nurses like, nursing homes, orphanages,

803
01:00:29,079 --> 01:00:34,880
schools have has the Orthodox Church actually
founded? Yeah? Have you heard

804
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,159
of? Have you heard of?
Have you heard of? Have you heard

805
01:00:37,199 --> 01:00:42,320
of Byzantium? That's where universities come
from. Are you familiar with that bus

806
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,880
in Byzantine? You don't know what
Byzantium is. No, I don't know

807
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:51,639
what Byzantium is. I'm Roman Catholic
right. Well, actually, the longest

808
01:00:51,719 --> 01:00:53,639
running empire in the history of the
world is a Byzantine Empire, and it's

809
01:00:53,679 --> 01:01:00,440
the Orthodox Empire, like where Turkey
is modern day Turkey. Okay, we're

810
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:04,119
gonna move on because I'm gonna get
mad and I'll be mean, and I

811
01:01:04,119 --> 01:01:06,960
don't want to be mean and get
people an excuse to say that I'm mean,

812
01:01:07,599 --> 01:01:38,199
Dave. What's up? I'm your
Dave or Dave? You're here?

813
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:45,000
Yeah? Hi, Well, I
came here because of the word Catholic protests

814
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:51,599
on Muslims. Everything is in here. I don't know whether you discuss religion,

815
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,920
theology, philosophy. I would like
to have one session with you.

816
01:01:55,000 --> 01:02:01,119
I have written two translations of the
Quran, many books on Islam and Christianity

817
01:02:01,199 --> 01:02:08,079
and atheism, and my website.
Hello. Hello, do you hear me?

818
01:02:08,519 --> 01:02:10,599
Yeah, I can hear you.
Hold on, Dave, we're talking

819
01:02:10,639 --> 01:02:15,440
to this guy. Go ahead.
Yeah, my website is banned by Catholic

820
01:02:15,559 --> 01:02:21,440
Church. And to my surprise,
I learned that down. Yes, banned

821
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,639
by Calc Church. You're saying you're
banned by the Calolic Church my website?

822
01:02:24,719 --> 01:02:30,079
Yes, How is your website banned
by the Callec Church? Let me tell

823
01:02:30,119 --> 01:02:34,880
you. I was teaching philosophy and
logic for twenty three years. One of

824
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:38,320
my students moved to San Diego,
and then one day he called me,

825
01:02:38,599 --> 01:02:45,239
former student and said, I'm working
on this philosophy paper I would like to

826
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:49,320
discuss with you. I said,
well, I've written multiple articles on the

827
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:52,960
subject. It is on my website. Nineteen dot org, I said,

828
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:58,199
we check and that are you just
here to promote your website? Because no,

829
01:02:58,199 --> 01:03:01,800
no propotion, So hold on,
hold on. The Congregation for the

830
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:06,960
Doctrine of Faith hasn't banned books in
forever. So how are they banning your

831
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,800
website? I was you, you're
telling me a long story. What's well?

832
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:15,320
He said, He checked it and
he said your website is banned.

833
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:17,840
He was in Universal. All right, so we'll grant you that the Vatican

834
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,599
is scared of your website. All
right, So let me ask you.

835
01:03:20,599 --> 01:03:22,239
Can I ask a question? Let
me tell you that it's not it's not

836
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:27,960
story time and website promotion time.
Can I ask you a question? Ahead?

837
01:03:28,039 --> 01:03:32,440
Gentlemen, are you Muslim? I
am a peacemaker. My religion is

838
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:40,000
peacemaking religion, religion. It's not
a religion. Okay, go ahead,

839
01:03:40,079 --> 01:04:00,880
Dave? What's up? Man?
Speak out here? What do you say?

840
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:08,360
All right? Try again next time, Dave. So let's keep to

841
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:12,599
the topics, guys. It's not
the let me spam promote my website.

842
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:19,199
The topics are listed, and peacemaker
is not a religion. Go ahead,

843
01:04:19,239 --> 01:04:25,599
Dan, Hey, Jay, I
have a few I have one question.

844
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:31,079
Actually, at one of the At
the end of one of Kyle's videos,

845
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:38,280
it says that the Catholic Church is
trying to have a false union with the

846
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:43,079
Orthodox Church in twenty twenty five or
twenty twenty six. Do you know anything

847
01:04:43,079 --> 01:04:46,800
about this or no? Yeah,
they were thinking of they're floating the idea

848
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:51,320
of having a anniversary of the Council, and I see a meeting and Bartholomew

849
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:54,920
has said he thinks it's a good
idea. Whether that will come about,

850
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:59,880
we don't know, but Bartholomew has
battered around the idea. Okay, okay,

851
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,079
that's all. Yeah. Uh now, it used to be there used

852
01:05:03,079 --> 01:05:11,800
to be some articles on this at
the Union of Orthodox Journalists, but they

853
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:15,920
got raided and arrested by the Ukrainian
Secret Service and police. So I don't

854
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:21,280
even know if they're going to be
able to keep going. History matters.

855
01:05:30,119 --> 01:05:38,239
Yeah, I'm mute. History matters. Okay are you? Are you calling

856
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:45,679
from a tin can? I can't
hear anything. Man, probably down,

857
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:56,679
I'll come back. Okay, tech
blue has been waiting for a while.

858
01:05:56,719 --> 01:06:14,519
What's up? Man? Got it
on? Mute? Tech Blue? Do

859
01:06:14,519 --> 01:06:17,360
you want to speak yet? On
you? Do you hear me? Do

860
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:23,320
you hear me. Yeah, okay, So last time I wanted to ask

861
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:29,800
you a question. I don't understand
the notion of a second coming and the

862
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:36,000
Old Testament, thank you. I
mean, there's a lot of passages to

863
01:06:36,079 --> 01:06:40,920
talk about the resurrection and the general
Judgment. So any passage in the Old

864
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:45,920
Testament that talks about the resurrection the
general Judgment would be for us a second

865
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:49,159
coming passage. Also, any of
the passages that talk about you know,

866
01:06:49,519 --> 01:06:54,440
the fullness of the Messianic promise and
the sense of Christ, you know,

867
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:59,599
reigning with with the saints, new
heavens, new Earth. Right, Isaiah

868
01:06:59,639 --> 01:07:01,440
talks at about that new heavens,
new Earth thing, that those are all

869
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:05,360
for us. In latter Isaiah,
those are all for us, you know,

870
01:07:05,519 --> 01:07:12,760
second Coming passages. But for example, there's many Jews that says that

871
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:19,199
these passages are about David or are
not messianic prophecies, like Isaiah fifty three

872
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:28,280
or some one and ten. Yeah, but wait, they're not messianic prophecies

873
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:32,800
or they are what do you say, like the Suffering Servant is about Israel

874
01:07:33,039 --> 01:07:36,960
and the psalms in general are about
yeah, but the whole But all of

875
01:07:38,039 --> 01:07:44,400
those passages like Isaiah fifty one,
fifty two, fifty three also contain Messianic

876
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:48,800
prophecies. They also call a few
chapters earlier. In forty nine, it

877
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:55,960
calls the Messiah divine and that he's
worshiped by these gentiles. So if you

878
01:07:56,000 --> 01:08:00,280
read it in the context, not
just singling out the suffering servant pass but

879
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:04,920
if you look at all the prior
passages from forty nine up to fifty five,

880
01:08:05,639 --> 01:08:09,679
like, you get a totality picture
that it's not just talking about the

881
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:14,440
nation of Israel. It's talking about
the nation of Israel exemplified in the person

882
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:19,439
of the Messiah. Can I give
you an example of what I've read?

883
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:26,000
I mean, I know the Jewish
argument that they think is just the nation

884
01:08:26,079 --> 01:08:30,880
of Israel suffering, sure, but
you know the passages is about the kings,

885
01:08:31,039 --> 01:08:38,199
the future kings, seeing Israel suffering
and then reflecting on themselves and believing

886
01:08:38,239 --> 01:08:42,319
in the Messiah. Like Isaiah forty
nine says, Okay, all right,

887
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:50,279
I have another Christian. Did Jesus
fulfill all the prophecies? Because there's some

888
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:57,279
that says that he died before realizing
any of them? But I don't understand

889
01:08:57,279 --> 01:09:00,840
really much if he did or not. I mean, yeah, I think

890
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:03,319
you fulfilled them all. I've never
heard of him dying before realizing them.

891
01:09:03,319 --> 01:09:09,520
What does that mean? Because they
said that there's no second coming. Then

892
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:15,520
when he first died, he didn't
accomplish the prophecies like bringing all Jews back

893
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:19,039
to Israel. Yeah, but holdah, No, if you look at the

894
01:09:19,079 --> 01:09:24,720
way the Book of Acts explains those
passages, the bringing back of the remnant

895
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:27,960
is what happens in Acts two.
So that is fulfilled in X two.

896
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,039
That's the rebuilding of the fallen tabernacle
of David. That's why the passage in

897
01:09:31,119 --> 01:09:36,960
Acts two cites that prophecy from David
psalms. Furthermore, the psalms constantly talk

898
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:43,720
about even the Messianic psalms talk about
the Messiah undergoing this death and this descent

899
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,000
to Hades and his resurrection. So
what would all these Messianic passages be talking

900
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:53,399
about when it talks about the descent
into Hades? Okay, and there's like

901
01:09:53,479 --> 01:10:00,000
probably twenty of them, thirty of
them it but and the one last question

902
01:10:00,319 --> 01:10:05,720
is about the priesthood. Multiple times
you say that the Rabbinical Jews don't have

903
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:12,920
a priesthood, and a rabbi is
not a rabbi is not a lobitical priest,

904
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,640
right, yeah, I know,
I know. Okay, use the

905
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:20,119
example of I think the verse that
says you're a priest forever by the order

906
01:10:20,159 --> 01:10:28,399
from Malchis right, Yeah, But
I've heard an argument that Malchis was and

907
01:10:28,399 --> 01:10:32,319
an other I'm gonna say that it
was, it was, it wasn't,

908
01:10:32,359 --> 01:10:41,319
and the first books like it was
added later because means rifle king. So

909
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,359
when they say that it's it's talking
about David like it says you're going to

910
01:10:45,399 --> 01:10:51,560
be a priest forever, like like
a rifle king. I mean the other

911
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:58,960
songs talk about Malchisada or talks about
Jerusalem being Salem, so you understand Melchisedek

912
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:03,920
is in Genesis. It's not invented
for David. Yeah. But there argument

913
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:11,560
is that there was conflict between multiple
tribes of priests, and then the when

914
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:16,239
the Babylonion concur the Israel, the
kings of the North come to the South

915
01:11:16,319 --> 01:11:23,079
and they wanted to and the priests
and all wanted to. So okay,

916
01:11:23,079 --> 01:11:25,600
I understand what you're saying, but
you don't understand that it's a both and

917
01:11:25,800 --> 01:11:29,520
like Psalm one ten is not just
about David. It's about the Messiah.

918
01:11:30,119 --> 01:11:33,680
You don't think it's a Messianic prophecy. I don't treat it that way.

919
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:40,000
But do you think Daniel seven is
a mess prophety? Do you think Rashi

920
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:46,560
is correct he says it is the
some of men? Yeah? Uh,

921
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:49,880
this one is more tricky, Like
for real, I thin so it's tricky

922
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:55,680
when it's okay, But isn't it
not tricky when there's all these Theophanes in

923
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,359
the Old Testament? Who do you
think that Theophanes aren't Genesis? Like we

924
01:11:58,439 --> 01:12:00,760
covered last night for like two hours. Who's uh, I wasn't there last

925
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,119
night? But okay, Well,
I mean they're like just just for like

926
01:12:03,159 --> 01:12:05,560
this to just say, for the
sake of argument, the thirty or so

927
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:11,760
if the often he's in the Book
of Genesis. I think it's metaphorical.

928
01:12:12,119 --> 01:12:18,680
When hold, so you can worship
a metaphor No, you're talking about so.

929
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:23,119
I think it's how can I sit
up? So like, when let

930
01:12:23,199 --> 01:12:27,399
me give an example worship, it's
not that it's not the angel that you're

931
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:33,319
worshiped, it's uh, you know, divine agency like God gave the Okay,

932
01:12:33,359 --> 01:12:36,239
so was God in the burning bush
or was it an angel or was

933
01:12:36,279 --> 01:12:42,079
it just quote God's agency? Is
God's agency God or not? Who's who's

934
01:12:42,079 --> 01:12:46,439
the who's the agent? Who's the
agent? It's the angel. Oh so

935
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:53,920
now created beings can can be called
Yahweh? Can you worship? Can you

936
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:58,960
worship angels? I mean, so
this is what you have to do to

937
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,520
get out of this. You see. But it's like a king sending an

938
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:06,199
envoye. Well, but why does
she say? She doesn't say I saw

939
01:13:06,199 --> 01:13:11,600
the representative, I saw God himself. It says that God appeared to Abraham

940
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:14,279
at the tree at the oak of
Mamara. And you're saying, well,

941
01:13:14,319 --> 01:13:17,479
it's not God, it's it's an
agent of God. But then the agent

942
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:25,399
is identified multiple times in Genesis as
Jehovah and Jahweh. Yeah, but uh,

943
01:13:26,319 --> 01:13:31,680
you know when an Exodus he said
God said that he put his name

944
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:35,760
and the angel rights, Yeah,
that's because that's because it's Jesus that's who

945
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:43,560
has the name. There's another example, whereas there's where win there's an angel

946
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:47,079
that has the name of the Lord
Yahowel or you're just assuming that that's not

947
01:13:47,159 --> 01:13:51,039
the same figure in the book of
Genesis. So you're assuming that it's another

948
01:13:51,079 --> 01:13:56,239
angel we're saying it's the exact same
angel, because the same angel that spoke

949
01:13:56,319 --> 01:14:00,279
out of the of the bush identifying
itself as I am. How can an

950
01:14:00,319 --> 01:14:03,239
angel say I am when an angel
is not I am? Because it doesn't

951
01:14:03,239 --> 01:14:08,920
the way it good talks to humans
like exactly, so it's God talking and

952
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:12,239
not an angel. Can an angel
hold on? Can an angel redeem or

953
01:14:12,279 --> 01:14:18,680
forgive sins? Oh? So angels
are now redeemed, so created things,

954
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:25,760
redeem and forgive sins. But it's
well, you said no, but now

955
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:28,039
they do. So this is what
you have to go to. This is

956
01:14:28,079 --> 01:14:30,840
the games you got to play to
not accept the fact that clearly the angel

957
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,479
is called the Redeemer. In fact, if you read it at the end

958
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:38,399
of Genesis, when Jacob talks about
his life story, he says that his

959
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:44,319
redeemer is the angel who accompanied him
through all of his struggles, and the

960
01:14:44,359 --> 01:14:47,479
Redeemer is the one that it's the
same angel, Redeemer and Angel of the

961
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:54,199
President's Angel just means messenger. It
doesn't necessarily mean a creative messenger because all

962
01:14:54,199 --> 01:14:56,800
these passages that you said earlier,
well, it's God, but it's an

963
01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:00,079
angel speaking for God. But it's
called God. But it has the name

964
01:15:00,159 --> 01:15:04,039
of God, so it's doesn't doesn't
the Bible tell us then that no one

965
01:15:04,079 --> 01:15:10,439
sees the Father at any time?
Yes, but oh, okay, so,

966
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:13,079
so who's the form of God that's
appearing in Ezekiel one to ten?

967
01:15:15,239 --> 01:15:19,359
Is it okay? So okay?
And Ezekiel one to ten, there's one

968
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:23,920
riding on the chariot like a son
of Man who is the face and glory

969
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:28,800
of God. What's staring you?
What's staring you in the faces? That

970
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:38,680
is Jesus? Okay? So yeah, you to him. Christian thinks you're

971
01:15:39,079 --> 01:15:43,479
okay. Sure, you had good
conversation if you look at we did a

972
01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:45,840
whole conversation, whole chat on Ezekiel
one to ten, just on that.

973
01:15:50,039 --> 01:15:55,479
Because when he sees the chariot,
which is the cherub him chariot, he

974
01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:59,319
sees that one that rides the chariot
is one like a son of Man,

975
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:04,800
who is the face and glory of
God. Above the firmament, there was

976
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:12,159
a sapphire stone. Also from the
appearance of his waist color of amber,

977
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:15,760
like the appearance of a rainbow.
And so was the appearance of the brightness.

978
01:16:16,279 --> 01:16:19,680
It was the appearance of the likeness
of the glory of God. Now,

979
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:24,000
God doesn't give his glory to another. So how are we going to

980
01:16:24,079 --> 01:16:27,720
say that this is a created being, an angel that's manifesting, that's writing

981
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:30,600
the angel chariot. Now, Jesus, only God could ride the chariot of

982
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:34,600
the gods, right, And this
is a big chariot that's being spoken of

983
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:40,520
here. And the one riding the
chariot is identified as the one who is

984
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:45,720
the likeness of God's glory. And
it's the same thing that you just said

985
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:48,439
was a tricky one in Daniel seven, one like a son of man.

986
01:16:50,279 --> 01:16:57,800
And so if you read Ezekiel one
to Ezekiel ten, the descriptors are the

987
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:47,039
same. I'm going over here to
ten. Maybe it's eleven. By the

988
01:17:47,079 --> 01:17:50,239
way, immediately after this passage,
I forgot to the Holy Spirit. Well,

989
01:17:50,239 --> 01:17:55,600
the Holy Spirit's present and throughout these
ego won to ten narrative as well.

990
01:17:56,399 --> 01:18:03,640
But yeah, uh, it's escaping
me. Which one is a specific

991
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:06,399
passage? I'll even just pull it
up in here. I'll bet a zeke

992
01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:51,920
you open. I got too many
tabs open here, or maybe these eco

993
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:55,119
passages the one that's said no it's
two to one, excuse me. That's

994
01:18:55,159 --> 01:19:06,720
why I can't fire. Now that's
insane. It's let's see. Maybe he

995
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:19,760
says, the son of God,
one like a son of God. What's

996
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:24,039
the passive? There's a passage in
Ezekiel where he says that the writer on

997
01:19:24,079 --> 01:19:30,159
the chariot had the appearance of the
glory of the Okay. So eight says

998
01:19:30,239 --> 01:19:46,720
the glory the Lord, the glory
and the spirit, the glory of the

999
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:50,600
Lord. In ten, the voice
of the Lord speaks, throm the glory

1000
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:59,359
there one like the son of Man. I know that the Son of Man

1001
01:19:59,359 --> 01:20:29,720
has mentioned. Trying to find that
passage. Does anybody in the chat have

1002
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:40,159
that reference? Handy? Is it? Ten? So he sees this the

1003
01:20:40,239 --> 01:20:45,039
firmament and the stones, and he
says, I saw the man clothed with

1004
01:20:45,119 --> 01:20:48,279
a robe go between the wheels,
the chair of him. Then he sees

1005
01:20:48,319 --> 01:20:54,439
the glory of the Lord, the
Glory's glory, the glory of the Lord,

1006
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:56,920
the chair of him. Okay,
So I don't see it in the

1007
01:20:57,039 --> 01:21:04,359
Orthodox study Bible Spirit of the Lord. And eleven there is a pastor that

1008
01:21:04,439 --> 01:21:08,920
says one like the son of Man. It might be in the Masoretic.

1009
01:21:09,159 --> 01:21:21,920
Is why I'm not seeing it in
my Bible. Let's see. Let's see

1010
01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:29,079
one says appearance of a man who
is the lightness of the Glory. No,

1011
01:21:29,159 --> 01:21:30,079
we're talking about there. We're taling
about the one in Ezekiel, not

1012
01:21:30,159 --> 01:21:32,159
the one of Daniel. I know
what Daniel says. I'm looking for this

1013
01:21:32,239 --> 01:21:39,680
pastor specifically in Ezekieel one through ten. I've lost the Bible. Here we

1014
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:58,079
go. So twenty four it says
the throne a voice came from before the

1015
01:21:58,479 --> 01:22:05,319
from above the firmament. There was
over their heads, the likeness of a

1016
01:22:05,399 --> 01:22:10,640
throne. On the likeness of the
throne was the appearance of a man.

1017
01:22:11,199 --> 01:22:13,479
Okay, so maybe that's what I'm
thinking of that some of them call it

1018
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:18,399
son of a man from the appearance
of his waist was amber fire, et

1019
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:25,640
cetera. So we think this is
the logos preincarnate. And then it calls

1020
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:36,720
him the likeness of the glory,
and that it does parallel the one like

1021
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:41,560
a son of man and Daniel.
But here are somewhere there's a passes that.

1022
01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:45,479
So something to that effect, I'm
pretty sure. So let's see.

1023
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:49,159
Maybe let's try eight, because it
comes up a lot in these first eleven

1024
01:22:49,239 --> 01:23:00,479
chapters. So let's see the hand
of the Lord God fell upon me.

1025
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:04,119
And I looked, and there was
a likeness fire from his waist down.

1026
01:23:04,279 --> 01:23:09,800
So this is the same figure in
the earlier chapters. He stretched out the

1027
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:12,279
form of a hand, and he
took me by the lock of the hair,

1028
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:16,800
and the Holy Spirit lifted me up
between earth and heaven. And behold,

1029
01:23:17,319 --> 01:23:20,039
the glory of God was there,
like the vision that I saw in

1030
01:23:20,119 --> 01:23:23,199
the plane. And he said to
me, son, a man, lets

1031
01:23:23,199 --> 01:23:27,399
you up your eyes. What do
you see he sees? So this is

1032
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:38,960
the Lord doing this right, and
the Spirit is there. And then ten

1033
01:23:39,079 --> 01:23:57,279
says I looked at there in the
fermat above the chair bend, there appeared

1034
01:23:57,359 --> 01:24:00,039
something like a sapphire stone. And
then he spoke to the man clothed with

1035
01:24:00,199 --> 01:24:05,600
linen. So this is the appearance
of a man. Go in among the

1036
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:12,239
wheels and fill your hands with coal
and fire from among the chairbhm and scatter

1037
01:24:12,279 --> 01:24:15,079
it on the city. Then the
glory of the Lord went up from the

1038
01:24:15,159 --> 01:24:19,399
cherub and paused over the threshold,
and the house of the Lord was filled

1039
01:24:19,439 --> 01:24:23,279
with the cloud. This is the
glory cloud, the brightness of the glory.

1040
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:35,079
So here is Father son Spirit.
So then this is the wheels of

1041
01:24:35,119 --> 01:24:45,199
the chariot the cherub Then the glory
of the Lord departed from the threshold of

1042
01:24:45,279 --> 01:24:49,359
the temple and stood over the Cherubim, and the glory of God was above

1043
01:24:49,439 --> 01:24:53,680
them. I bet you this is, by the way, where the Muslims

1044
01:24:54,479 --> 01:24:59,640
when they get that perverted, stupid
thing in the Koran that the Salafies followed,

1045
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:02,039
that he's a above the throne.
I guarantee you it's like a perversion

1046
01:25:02,119 --> 01:25:12,640
of these Ezekiel texts, isn't it
okay? Anyway? Well, maybe I'm

1047
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:15,640
just thinking of Daniel and thinking of
the fact that it called him one like

1048
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:20,479
a man. But I could have
sworn some of the translations. Said.

1049
01:25:21,079 --> 01:25:24,159
If they do and I find it
later, I'll put it up here.

1050
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:28,239
Maybe it's like the King James.
Isn't one like a man or someone like

1051
01:25:28,279 --> 01:25:34,079
something man? Let's see, we've
got a super chat from Trolo, Mexicano

1052
01:25:34,159 --> 01:25:41,119
five dollars. I missed the Ecumenists
anti Acumenism stance. Too many people are

1053
01:25:41,159 --> 01:25:45,760
soft on these positions, just like
people are soft on skittle stuff. Orthodox

1054
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:54,680
and orthoseexuals have better things to do. May Mexico become Orthodox one day?

1055
01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:58,800
D watch Ah. Thank you Trolo. Well, Emmanuel, five dollars,

1056
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:01,439
thank you for sharing first start in
this Trinity series. Thank you appreciate that.

1057
01:26:02,199 --> 01:26:08,680
Well, Emmanuel. Food for Stephen
Hawkeyes one dollar. Fundamental method of

1058
01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:13,479
pedagogy is to not compromise on matters
of truth and dogma. Roman Catholics play

1059
01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:15,560
stupid like they don't know that a
pope can't pray in a mosque. Would

1060
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:20,640
any Roman Catholic agree to call their
libtard family a member? Well, you

1061
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:24,960
could point you could, you could
point out that when they do the two

1062
01:26:25,039 --> 01:26:27,479
quoquay, because every time you bring
this up to do a two quoqua where

1063
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:31,439
they'll say, well, but you
you guys do the same stuff. Oh,

1064
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:36,000
so you're admitting that it's wrong.
And you're correct that there are Orthodox

1065
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:42,680
bishops that do this and it's also
wrong and apostasy and heresy. I agree.

1066
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:46,520
But by the fact that you're admitting
that it's Orthodox doing the same sin,

1067
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:50,560
you're admitting that it's wrong. So
that means that you can't have loopholes.

1068
01:26:51,439 --> 01:26:59,760
You see, So that cuts two
ways history. Did you want to

1069
01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:11,399
try? Yeah, hello, can
you hear me? Yeah? So something

1070
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:15,920
I have long time, long time
listener. But I'm actually just curious,

1071
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:18,800
and I know you've I'm positive you've
talked about it, but had some difficulty

1072
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:25,520
actually finding any discussions you had about
it, what your perspective is on not

1073
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:31,760
specifically Melkites as a part of a
Catholic Church. I'm under the assumption that

1074
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:36,279
you believe it's a theologically schizophrenic position. Am I correct in that? Yeah?

1075
01:27:38,239 --> 01:27:41,800
Yeah, yeah, And I understand
that part of it. But I

1076
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:49,560
was actually curious about, like your
perspective on pragmatic intercommunion under subjugation of other

1077
01:27:50,399 --> 01:27:55,000
like like like in the Middle East, for example, where the Melkites are

1078
01:27:55,000 --> 01:28:01,159
from, there's a long history of
historic intercommunion from a pragmatic perspective, not

1079
01:28:01,279 --> 01:28:05,720
from any ecumenical perspective. Do you
get what I'm saying. I'm kind of

1080
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:11,359
kind of expect I mean, we
did an interview with a guy a few

1081
01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:15,239
years ago who had left the Melkites, So you might look up Jay Dyer.

1082
01:28:15,359 --> 01:28:23,680
Comma, uh uhm, what was
the name of that? Trying to

1083
01:28:23,720 --> 01:28:36,880
think of the name of that.
Let me find it for former Union.

1084
01:28:38,079 --> 01:28:42,760
Is that what we called it.
It's me and Lewis and the guy was

1085
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:49,560
in the Melkite seminary. But we
got into a lot of these issues and

1086
01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:55,079
details, and he knew all the
history of Melkite stuff. So m hmm.

1087
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:59,439
But I gotta find that Videoah.
And just one more thing. I'm

1088
01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:03,159
sorry man in the Middle Zone,
but well, I do think it's a

1089
01:29:03,199 --> 01:29:06,279
little interesting and I'd like to hear
your I guess you expound on this a

1090
01:29:06,319 --> 01:29:13,520
little bit. Everyone kind of thinks
it's used the Malkits as an opportunity for

1091
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:19,159
at least the Roman Catholic Church,
as an opportunity for further the union between

1092
01:29:20,359 --> 01:29:26,239
Orthodox and the Roman Catholic. But
I kind of actually view it as because

1093
01:29:26,279 --> 01:29:32,319
of the awkward position that the Melkits
are in, they're closer to being reunified

1094
01:29:32,399 --> 01:29:38,399
with Orthodoxy than ever bridging the gap
between Orthodoxy and Rome. What do you

1095
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:42,159
think of that? I don't know
the internal status of all that. I

1096
01:29:42,239 --> 01:29:45,880
mean, the closest thing I would
have is this I found the podcast.

1097
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:47,359
I was like, of cour it's
called from Catholic to Orthodox, how Eastern

1098
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:51,359
Catholics are a death blow to Papism, And that was that guy was in

1099
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:57,039
the UNI A seminary. I'm pretty
sure, so you could you could check

1100
01:29:57,119 --> 01:30:00,039
that out and see what what he
says. So I'm probably gonna head out

1101
01:30:00,039 --> 01:30:05,079
pretty soon. I'll go I'll do
one more in verse, did not hard

1102
01:30:15,399 --> 01:30:24,279
go ahead and verse yet on mute
man hikay, Sorry about that. Yeah,

1103
01:30:24,319 --> 01:30:27,760
I just had a quick question,
so I can I am officially converted

1104
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:33,800
on last Holy Saturday, and yeah, and then following that I was,

1105
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:41,880
I went on kind of a big
trip to multiple countries and recently so I

1106
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:47,079
guess two Saturdays ago I was in
a Russian church in Sammar Konduzbekistan, and

1107
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:57,600
I unfortunately like missed communion because confession
was done like midway through divine literagury.

1108
01:30:57,680 --> 01:31:00,439
So I was wondering, as a
row corp, if you could plain that

1109
01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:04,520
and why that that tradition stands.
I don't know. I mean, I

1110
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:09,479
mean typically I think they just kind
of give the option that it's it's early,

1111
01:31:10,239 --> 01:31:13,399
you're supposed to do it like the
Saturday before, or you do it

1112
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:17,119
in the morning early, or the
priest gives kind of the last chance to

1113
01:31:17,199 --> 01:31:23,920
do it right before communion. I
guess because some Russian people can't get there

1114
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:27,279
on time. I don't know.
Father Moses maybe could speak to this better

1115
01:31:27,359 --> 01:31:30,199
than me, I don't know.
Oh, okay, I'll let I'll let

1116
01:31:30,279 --> 01:31:38,439
him answer if he's able to.
Yeah's father, Moses, can you are

1117
01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:46,600
you able to answer that? I'm
not actually sure where the father deacon Ananias,

1118
01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:49,199
are you able to? I don't
know where that tradition comes from.

1119
01:31:49,239 --> 01:31:54,439
Why they why they do that?
I know that, but sorry? What

1120
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:58,199
was the specific question on that term? Why is it that sometimes in the

1121
01:31:58,319 --> 01:32:04,039
Russian circles of the Russian sphere,
the church will offer a confession kind of

1122
01:32:04,399 --> 01:32:12,199
right before communion or at the beginning
of the service. Oh, just practicalities

1123
01:32:12,239 --> 01:32:15,079
because we have to hear so many
confessions. So there's a couple different ways

1124
01:32:15,119 --> 01:32:19,039
that it's done. Like in a
bigger monastery or church where you have multiple

1125
01:32:19,159 --> 01:32:24,520
priests, sometimes what will happen is
there'll be one priest who's actually designated to

1126
01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:30,359
hear the confessions all during the liturgy, and he'll actually like be out of

1127
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:36,199
the altar basically hearing confessions all the
way until basically the Great Entrance. There's

1128
01:32:36,239 --> 01:32:42,199
also a tradition within the church where
after the priest receives Holy Communion, he'll

1129
01:32:42,239 --> 01:32:45,920
actually come out and give a homily. So instead of giving a homily off

1130
01:32:45,079 --> 01:32:49,439
after the gospel. They'll actually give
a homily later on after they've received holy

1131
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:54,640
communion, before the faith will receive
holy communion, in which case, if

1132
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:58,880
the main celebrating comes out to give
the homily, sometimes the secondary priest will

1133
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:02,079
go over to the confession and basically
pick up any stragglers that weren't there at

1134
01:33:02,079 --> 01:33:08,720
the beginning of the liturgy. So
this has more to do with larger parishes,

1135
01:33:09,119 --> 01:33:15,079
especially like in cities where people are
traveling and also getting taking public transportation

1136
01:33:15,239 --> 01:33:18,720
in the morning to get the services, where you know, there can be

1137
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:24,159
all kinds of things that happened at
delay your entrance to getting church and whatnot.

1138
01:33:24,239 --> 01:33:29,159
They're originally in the church. The
actual historical stance of the church was

1139
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:31,840
if you were if you were not
there by the time of the reading of

1140
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:38,199
the Gospel, you could not receive
holy communion, right that That is practice

1141
01:33:38,239 --> 01:33:45,000
in my own parents. Yeah,
it's I think that one of the reasons

1142
01:33:45,039 --> 01:33:50,399
it became more lax was that because
grandparents a lot of times were taking grandchildren

1143
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:55,880
to the liturgy, and so they
would have more difficulty getting them there on

1144
01:33:56,039 --> 01:34:00,960
time, and or parents and or
in big cities, there's just so many

1145
01:34:00,039 --> 01:34:03,600
people, and a lot of times, you know, people wouldn't be able

1146
01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:08,840
to get there the night before to
hear holy or to go to confession.

1147
01:34:09,399 --> 01:34:15,279
So uh again, these things which
should always be viewed as abnormalities, you

1148
01:34:15,359 --> 01:34:20,199
know, and they're there. They
are in the true sense of the word.

1149
01:34:20,319 --> 01:34:26,479
Any knomea based on factors such as
the size of the parish, people

1150
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:30,239
traveling the city, and other things. They shouldn't become the default. I've

1151
01:34:30,279 --> 01:34:35,239
been at places where that sort of
stuff actually becomes the norm, and but

1152
01:34:35,359 --> 01:34:39,680
there's no reason for it. You
know, it doesn't. It doesn't.

1153
01:34:41,159 --> 01:34:44,920
It doesn't bolster the faith of the
community or make for a strong congregation.

1154
01:34:45,279 --> 01:34:49,560
It actually turns everything very lax and
lucy goosey, and that's not healthier normal.

1155
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:54,920
Thank you, uh for the people
that were out. Here's the talk

1156
01:34:55,000 --> 01:34:58,760
that I did too on Ezekiel one
to ten. So if you want,

1157
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:00,640
if you want to go deeper into
these ego passages, we did a whole

1158
01:35:00,720 --> 01:35:04,520
podcast on that probably three or four
years ago. All Right, I'm pretty

1159
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:08,720
tired and we're gonna go hang out
and do stuff. Jamie and I so

1160
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:11,560
thank you guys for joining me.
And I want to remind you everybody to

1161
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:15,960
head on over to the event bright
link. Head over to this event bright

1162
01:35:16,039 --> 01:35:21,000
link right here and get take us
to our June twenty second event with Jim

1163
01:35:21,079 --> 01:35:26,079
Bob and Isaac Vaishop and Jamie my
wife. We're gonna have a lot of

1164
01:35:26,119 --> 01:35:29,359
fun. It's not too late.
Be sure to get your tickets right there

1165
01:35:29,439 --> 01:35:32,720
June twenty second. It's a six
hour epic event and there's the link to

1166
01:35:32,800 --> 01:35:35,279
get that. You can also if
you're watching this later. The link is

1167
01:35:35,319 --> 01:35:41,840
in the show description. It's also
on my Twitter and let's see no edit

1168
01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:45,079
quest three dollars Pope, friends.
The statements are a good rebuttal to the

1169
01:35:45,199 --> 01:35:50,319
intention argument, in other words,
like we don't know the pope's intention for

1170
01:35:50,399 --> 01:35:53,800
praying in the moss. Maybe it's
to convert people. No it's not,

1171
01:35:55,439 --> 01:35:58,560
Pope, says the Pope says quote
it is not listed to convince them of

1172
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:04,439
your faith. Proselytism is the strongest
venom against the path of ecumenism. Should

1173
01:36:04,479 --> 01:36:08,399
you convince people to become Catholic?
No, no, no, says Pope

1174
01:36:08,399 --> 01:36:12,039
France. Those are quotes from Francis
exactly. Think you know what request ricky

1175
01:36:12,159 --> 01:36:16,079
three dollars, mister clean. That
guy was convinced that we are indoctrinated into

1176
01:36:16,119 --> 01:36:21,399
prior He is correct that we are
indoctrinated into prioritizing the trying God exactly,

1177
01:36:23,079 --> 01:36:26,640
biscuit heead ten dollars, ten dollars, thank you for all that you do.

1178
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:29,680
You help me and my family become
catechumens at the parish. Can you

1179
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:34,159
explain how TAG is different from the
fallacy from the consequent We did a whole

1180
01:36:34,199 --> 01:36:39,640
podcast on that with a father,
Deacon had Ayas. I think it was

1181
01:36:39,680 --> 01:36:45,359
one of our first or second podcasts. Uh so we're kind of coming to

1182
01:36:45,399 --> 01:36:48,479
the end of the stream here.
So but most of these questions, I

1183
01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:53,800
know, it's difficult to find because
there's like a massive material. So when

1184
01:36:53,800 --> 01:36:56,600
people are like answer this and it's
like, well, we did a podcast

1185
01:36:56,680 --> 01:36:58,880
on that four years ago, it's
like, well but you can't find Yeah,

1186
01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:02,199
I know, you can blame the
way the algo works here because it's

1187
01:37:02,239 --> 01:37:18,000
really hard to find these things.
Oh wait, I think it might have

1188
01:37:18,119 --> 01:37:27,960
been covered in my stream. I
know it is. It's my stream bad

1189
01:37:28,079 --> 01:37:32,920
Arguments against Tag. What did I
title that? See, then it becomes

1190
01:37:33,199 --> 01:37:36,159
a game of me trying to remember
what I named the streams five years ago,

1191
01:37:36,880 --> 01:38:02,680
six years ago. Arguments against TAG. Yeah, okay, so it's

1192
01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:13,560
either this one or the other one
where I'm arguing against the objections objections to

1193
01:38:13,680 --> 01:38:26,079
TAG objections. I think it's called
objections. Aha. So I remember one

1194
01:38:26,119 --> 01:38:30,880
of them was me in FDA.
No, there's another one where I'm sitting

1195
01:38:30,920 --> 01:38:35,720
in my old apartment and I can't
remember what I named it. Damn.

1196
01:38:45,359 --> 01:38:48,239
A lot of these would be relevant
to it, even though they're not specifically

1197
01:38:48,319 --> 01:38:57,079
addressing that question. Okay, it's
this is this stream, but this is

1198
01:38:57,119 --> 01:38:59,920
a clip from that stream. This
isn't the actual stream here it is.

1199
01:39:01,159 --> 01:39:06,640
It's this one God's existence and transcendental
arguments. So this is the first stream

1200
01:39:06,680 --> 01:39:15,560
that I did addressing objections. So
there's that one, and then there's another

1201
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:21,159
stream that we did addressing objections here. Now I was going to talk about

1202
01:39:21,239 --> 01:39:25,000
drake Man. I got so many
tabs open that it's like the whole computer's

1203
01:39:25,039 --> 01:39:30,840
frozen something with it. And then
I'm pretty sure we addressed a firm of

1204
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:34,000
the consequence with FDA here. So
if you don't see it in these three,

1205
01:39:35,479 --> 01:39:48,279
message me again, we don't accept
it. Because anyway, thank you

1206
01:39:48,359 --> 01:39:50,800
guys, appreciate it. Let's see, I think we have a little bit

1207
01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:59,560
more. I think we have more
superstresses. I know this is low tier

1208
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:04,439
three. Do how is Jesus fully
man if he wasn't conceived by an intercourse?

1209
01:40:05,079 --> 01:40:10,000
Well, he's fully man because he
possesses a fully human nature that he

1210
01:40:10,159 --> 01:40:14,159
derived from his mother. So when
we say man, we mean human nature.

1211
01:40:14,640 --> 01:40:17,479
He's not a human person, and
so this presupposes the distinction between nature

1212
01:40:17,479 --> 01:40:23,880
and person. He's a divine person
or subject because he's the second person of

1213
01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:28,600
the Godhead incarnate, and so the
only subject or agent there is the divine

1214
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:33,680
agency or divine agent or subject of
the logos. So the human nature that

1215
01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:38,199
he assumed is body, mind,
soul, and will, but not a

1216
01:40:38,279 --> 01:40:42,479
human person. Wouldn't this make him
half man and half God. No,

1217
01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:45,279
he's one hundred percent man and one
hundred percent God. I know this is

1218
01:40:45,359 --> 01:40:49,720
low tier three dollars. Easiest best
church father work to start with, I

1219
01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:54,920
would start with on the Incarnation by
Athanasius, and then I would read the

1220
01:40:55,000 --> 01:40:59,319
theological orations of Gregory nazian Zeus,
and then I would move into other Cappadocians.

1221
01:41:00,840 --> 01:41:03,720
Craig Tiree ten dollars. Jay is
living in a swamp like Shrek.

1222
01:41:03,800 --> 01:41:08,560
Yeah, actually the swamp is literally
right next door. I do feel like

1223
01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:11,319
Shrek. Here's a tip for the
Allergy Fund, Thank you. Yes,

1224
01:41:11,399 --> 01:41:15,600
that goes towards Manuka Honey delivery guide. One dollar are angel's energies? No,

1225
01:41:15,720 --> 01:41:19,239
Angels are created beings that also have
an angelic nature and an angelic person

1226
01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:26,000
hood. So they're angelic beings or
persons like Michael or Gabriel, and they

1227
01:41:26,119 --> 01:41:31,039
have a created energy proper to angelic
nature. Humans have a created energy proper

1228
01:41:31,119 --> 01:41:38,119
to human nature. God has an
energy proper to divine nature. In MidCap

1229
01:41:38,199 --> 01:41:41,840
three dollars, what do you think
about Saint Nikolai Velimrovitch and a humanism?

1230
01:41:42,119 --> 01:41:46,960
He later repented of those things?
Is my understanding? Mind? Had one

1231
01:41:47,039 --> 01:41:50,199
dollar? When is your next book? I'm trying to work on it.

1232
01:41:50,279 --> 01:41:53,800
It's just so much stuff is going
it's hard to find time to write,

1233
01:41:54,079 --> 01:41:56,319
so I want to. I hope
by the end of this year I can

1234
01:41:56,399 --> 01:42:00,000
finish it. Mila five. I
got about one hundred hundred and fifty PA

1235
01:42:00,119 --> 01:42:02,920
just meal level five dollars. I
was born into Orthodox I'm trying to learn

1236
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:06,800
more. One thing that bothered me
is what happens with good people born into

1237
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:11,359
sex. I know you've spoken about
this. Could you clarify more? Do

1238
01:42:11,439 --> 01:42:15,119
you mean why would God allow people
to be born into those things? We

1239
01:42:15,199 --> 01:42:23,079
don't ultimately know all of God's unfathomable, you know, knowledge and decisions for

1240
01:42:23,359 --> 01:42:27,159
why He does what. Providentially,
we know if we read the Book of

1241
01:42:27,239 --> 01:42:30,319
Job that basically what we come away
with is that God has a sufficient reason

1242
01:42:30,439 --> 01:42:35,079
for why or we have those kinds
of questions and issues, but God doesn't

1243
01:42:35,159 --> 01:42:40,000
have to tell us. And also
through the dialogue of Job, we get

1244
01:42:40,039 --> 01:42:43,439
the impression that like God couldn't even
explain it to us, right, like

1245
01:42:43,960 --> 01:42:46,840
why it's that way because we're finite, He's infinite, and so forth.

1246
01:42:46,880 --> 01:42:49,800
That's kind of the point at the
end of Book of Job, jays Zuno

1247
01:42:49,880 --> 01:42:55,199
fifteen dollars. Since the Protestant can't
justify the Biblical canon, is it safe

1248
01:42:55,239 --> 01:43:00,279
to say that whatever they interpret from
the Bible lacks foundational truth? Like a

1249
01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:11,760
broken clock is correct twice a day
analogy. I don't know if I would

1250
01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:15,159
say that they lack foundational truth,
I would just say that it's inconsistent,

1251
01:43:15,079 --> 01:43:20,399
like the position is like it's like
two conflicting positions at the same time.

1252
01:43:21,039 --> 01:43:28,119
So anything that they say that's true
is true and has foundation, but they've

1253
01:43:28,159 --> 01:43:31,079
also got this other belief in position
that's inconsistent with that, which is like,

1254
01:43:32,199 --> 01:43:36,039
you know, all the Protestant autonomous, I don't need a church,

1255
01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:42,560
I just automatically know the canon ideas. And I think that that's key to

1256
01:43:42,680 --> 01:43:45,520
Roman Catholicism too, because a lot
of times when we bring these topics up,

1257
01:43:45,079 --> 01:43:49,720
when we point out a contradiction in
Roman Catholic documents, many Roman Catholics

1258
01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:54,079
will run to some place where,
oh, well, here's where a passage

1259
01:43:54,079 --> 01:43:58,319
where it says the Old Testament teaches
the Trinity, and they're missing the point

1260
01:43:58,399 --> 01:44:02,439
that we're not saying that you're tradition
doesn't have a lot of true statements.

1261
01:44:02,960 --> 01:44:06,880
We're saying that there's these conflicting statements
that don't make sense. Right, if

1262
01:44:06,920 --> 01:44:10,520
the Old Testament teaches the Trinity,
and if the Old Testament saints believe in

1263
01:44:10,600 --> 01:44:15,720
worship the Trinity, that's inconsistent with
the other proposition in Vatican two is Lumagentium

1264
01:44:15,880 --> 01:44:21,239
sixteen and Nos fortate that Muslims and
Jews all worship the same generic God that's

1265
01:44:21,319 --> 01:44:27,439
not trinitarian. So you see,
it's like there's conflicting things. That's the

1266
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:30,560
point. Not do they say a
lot of true things. You see,

1267
01:44:30,760 --> 01:44:32,520
they'll often run to, well,
here's a quote over here where it says

1268
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:32,960
what you're saying.