WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.439 --> 00:00:08.119 This is the baseline discussing the hot button topics of the NBA. Welcome everybody 2 00:00:08.119 --> 00:00:11.960 here, tune to the baseline Callie one shall discussing the hot button topics of 3 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:17.839 the NBA. Man on, man, it's sweet when the NBA Playoffs is 4 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:22.839 in full tilt with nothing but surprises, the lore and what more can be 5 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:26.239 said? Man, it just amps up the excitement for us to continue to 6 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:29.600 do our thing with these autopsy reports. And we're going to continue to keep 7 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:33.439 the lasing them bodies, boy, putting them in, putting them on the 8 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:38.000 slab. And I don't know, and maybe after this conversation with my right 9 00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:41.439 hand man Shaw, you know, we might have to actually start considering a 10 00:00:41.479 --> 00:00:45.359 new methodology of examining these bodies. Might have to incinerate them, put spread 11 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:47.960 ashes out in the ocean for some of these teams, man, with the 12 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:52.960 way things have been going with their with their plight of how things have ended 13 00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:56.039 for their season. But that's exactly the reason why we bring up these topics 14 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.880 of conversation. So I'm going roll out the red carpet to my man's Www 15 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:02.719 show Sports that Net, Big Hunap and see my man, mister Warrenshaw, 16 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:06.359 ripping out of Fort Laida of Florida. What's good, mister Shaw. I 17 00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:11.159 know that when the bodies you know, come into droves we got, we're 18 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:15.400 gonna have to probably put in a little bit of overtime with these autopsy reports. 19 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:19.159 Man. Brother, there was like an extinction level event this last week 20 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:23.200 with all these first round teams getting excommunicated from the playoffs, and you know, 21 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:26.959 people lining up to get on this autopsy slab, one team who definitely 22 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:29.879 did not think they'd be here this early, but yet here we are. 23 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:32.879 So we got a bottom up, zip them up as we do here on 24 00:01:32.920 --> 00:01:36.439 the baseline, my guy, absolutely, man. So this week, man, 25 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:42.000 the coveted autopsy reports is in front and center for the show this week, 26 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:45.400 and we're going to continue to keep those things moving along. You know, 27 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:49.040 three teams, really that one of them, especially that we're actually going 28 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:51.560 to be first up on the slab. We're not even gonna waste any time 29 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:56.719 with those guys because it's actually surprising that they actually are at this particular point. 30 00:01:56.760 --> 00:02:00.560 But I think it warrants a conversation. So this week on the report, 31 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:06.400 Sean and I will be focusing our attention on the Milwaukee Bucks we'll also 32 00:02:06.439 --> 00:02:09.039 be talking about the Cleveland Cavaliers in the Atlanta Hawks, both teams exiting out 33 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:14.759 of the first rounds, but very very different perspectives that have to be given 34 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:17.599 on what has taken place for their season and whether or not the outlook is 35 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:22.199 in a positive note, on a negative note, or something of a level 36 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:24.719 of uncertainty. So we'll dig into all these three teams in this week's edition 37 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:29.719 of the Autopsy Report. As always, we appreciate you and yours for hopping 38 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:30.800 on board with us this week. Be sure to get them a man Shaw 39 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:34.479 Astrow Sports NBA, get at me a game face Lee. The show's Twitter 40 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:37.479 hand at NBA based on available in all the major platforms you know where to 41 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:40.319 find us, or you can go to www dot based on NBA dot com 42 00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:45.120 to check this and all of our previous episodes, and you know we'll be 43 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:47.719 rolling out them Autopsy Report. So please if you missed out on a team, 44 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:51.680 which I know you don't want to hear be talked about, but you 45 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:53.439 definitely want to find out whether or not things are going to be good or 46 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:58.840 bad moving forward, definitely check out our previous episodes of the Autopsy Reports. 47 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:01.680 As always, when if you catch us on YouTube and you see the nice 48 00:03:01.719 --> 00:03:04.919 little blue logo down at the bottom of the screen, you know we rocks 49 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:07.879 with the nineteen Media Group. Family. 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The Baseline is 66 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:16.319 working in affiliation with with the NBA Store Slash Fanatics and will be compensated for 67 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:23.560 your patronage by utilizing our link, which is NBA Store dot v w z 68 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:30.439 is and Zebra six dot net Slash Bassline once again NBA Store dot vwz six 69 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:35.360 dot dot net Slash Bassline and as always, anything you contribute to we will 70 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:41.040 always appreciate you and thank you for your support. All right, let's not 71 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:44.360 waste any time, Sean I throwing on them jackets. You know how we 72 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:47.079 do. You know how we roll. Let's start examining them bodies. Autopsy 73 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:58.959 report here on the breakdown. Time to break it. They're dead, My 74 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:02.279 team, my they knew we were coming, man, they knew we were 75 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:11.399 coming. Time down for the breakdown, Callie warrened Shaw based on NBA podcast 76 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:15.519 and this is our coveted autopsy report in the first team that we are very 77 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:20.560 much amplified to put on the slab. Surprisingly putting on the slab will be 78 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:26.720 the Milwaukee Bucks, a team that had the best overall record in the NBA 79 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.600 almost getting to the sixty win threshold, which we thought was almost impossible given 80 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:34.519 the level of competition not only just in the Eastern Conference but in the NBA 81 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:41.319 altogether, and yet they were. They were really I don't want to say 82 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:45.160 the upset darlings, but we almost kind of saw this coming because the thing 83 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.040 that we emphasized the most Shaw it's all about the matchups. And I think 84 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:50.839 the thing that really surprises me more than anything, I want to get this 85 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:55.040 part of it out of the way here is when we're talking about the Milwaukee 86 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:58.240 Bucks taking on the Miami Heat. I for the life of me, can't 87 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:04.079 understand why the media, the sports media, specifically primetime media, never emphasize 88 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:09.000 how much of a rivalry there is between the Bucks and the Heat. I 89 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:12.240 mean, if people are not been paying attention, the Heat and the Bucks 90 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:15.720 have been going at it the last four years, where a lot has been 91 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:20.040 on the line the Milwaukee the Miami Heat has been prevented of finding themselves getting 92 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:25.399 deep in the playoffs due to the Milwaukee Bucks. Thelwaukee Bucks and opportunities to 93 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:29.600 probably get a title earlier than a few years ago due to from the COVID 94 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:32.199 situation, we're knocked out by the Miami Heat, and yet we just kind 95 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:36.319 of like making this seem like the Nicks and the Heat are a better rivalry 96 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:41.439 than what we've been seeing between the Bucks and the Heat. And the Heat 97 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:44.839 are the ones that have proverbly knocked off the number one see the team in 98 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:47.480 the NBA, and we're not talking about that. That is crazy to me. 99 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:50.160 Yeah, well, I mean they've done it twice, right, So 100 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:54.800 Bubble season, I think you know, Milwaukee was one and they ended up 101 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:57.360 the Heat were four five whatever it was. In that second round, they 102 00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:00.920 dispatched Milwaukee I think in five games. You know. The very next year, 103 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:03.399 Milwaukee comes back and was like, yeah, you know, revenge tour 104 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:08.399 like a mug, sweeps Miami in four games. Obviously, don't they didn't 105 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:11.720 play last year, but now this year again they meet up again five game 106 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:14.759 series. So it never goes the way that you think it's going to, 107 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:17.480 especially for the amount of everything that's on the line for these teams when they 108 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:21.000 do meet and kind of clash together. But Miami has come out on top, 109 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:25.040 you know, two out of the last three meetings in a very very 110 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:29.240 and somewhat very surprising fashion. And this year specifically, to me, is 111 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:31.639 more surprising than even that Bubble year. And while we can get into the 112 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:35.879 nuances of you know, Jani's being earned hurt and injured, the Heat were 113 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:39.160 also hurt. You know, they didn't have Tyler Hero, you know, 114 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:41.959 and they will not have Tyler Hero from the remainder of the playoffs and Victor 115 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:46.040 Oladipo. And it's just really really surprising to see the Bucks go out in 116 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:49.319 this way to a team that they are better talent, they have more talented, 117 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:53.920 They just are more talented, but they didn't have the records at heart 118 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:58.680 that was needed to get past this Miami team who definitely smelled blood after games 119 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:01.160 won and then even after and blown in game two, the way the Bucks 120 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:05.560 let them come back into that stuff in Game four was really really indicative of 121 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:07.839 how the series we're going to go and end. Yeah, So I know 122 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:13.759 a lot of people have been fixated on the situation. The postgame interview with 123 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:20.319 Jannis and what he had spoken to you had brought up the word heart and 124 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:24.199 I think Shaw it's great because I think it ties the two things in together. 125 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:30.439 While I applaud Jannis for his perspective that's given, which I think really 126 00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:33.519 should be indicative of how we all should embrace and love and how vital sports 127 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:37.600 should be. It should not be something that is a representation of your failures 128 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:41.519 and successes as an individual in the things that you look to do and to 129 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:46.000 achieve. I think it should empower you more and build a better coalesced community, 130 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:48.960 you know, outside of the noise of the things that we are really 131 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:52.759 dealing with on our day to days. Right, the question really should be 132 00:08:52.799 --> 00:09:00.919 looked at did the Bucks as a team not meet the expatitions? And when 133 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:05.480 you're the number one seeded team in your conference and you get knocked out by 134 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:09.399 the A seeded team who had to win to play in right to get knocked 135 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:16.120 out, I don't think you can give any explanation, any perspective that doesn't 136 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:18.919 look at it as face value. And again, we can talk about other 137 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.799 semantics about this stuff regarding that, but to me, you spoke about heart 138 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:28.480 and I will gladly up the anti on this Shaw. Heart wasn't just it, 139 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:33.480 it's also your mental approach. And we've seen this time and time again 140 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:35.600 with the Milwaukee Bucks this up and down trend. They can look like the 141 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.879 most dominant team at times and at times they look like a team that could 142 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:43.720 be got at any given time. And it was front and center in a 143 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.639 situation where, yeah, maybe the three one situation put their backs up against 144 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:50.799 the wall made it a lot harder for them than necessary. But in that 145 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:56.600 game, that Game five, they clearly had the advantage for about what forty 146 00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:00.799 six minutes of the game, and yet they still could not seal the deal, 147 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:03.879 which is indicative of a team that was just not mentally in the right 148 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:07.480 space about the desperation required for them to make sure that they were going to 149 00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:11.720 extend a season and not get knocked out by the Miami Heat. Yeah, 150 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:16.200 I mean, I want to gotta give Miami a lot of credit first and 151 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:18.240 foremost, so I definitely wanted that. But I think your point is so 152 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:20.200 well made because in the last two games, the Bucks blew you know, 153 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:26.200 two double digit fourth quarter leads, and in Game five, specifically, you 154 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.240 know, with Jimmy Butler out in the fourth to allow Miami to go one 155 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:33.320 on eleven to one run to start the quarter, out was exactly that. 156 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:37.639 It was inexcusable. The Bucks felt like they had this series in hand kind 157 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.279 of that at anyone, like they felt they could turn it on because of 158 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:43.480 how Miami got into the playoffs and because they ordered the mighty, the mighty 159 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:48.159 Milwaukee Bucks with all the depth and all the three point shooting and all the 160 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:52.240 defense and all of it failed them. So while a lot of people want 161 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:54.799 to lay this at the feet of Coach Bud, I think it was another 162 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.320 podcast saying out their coach Bud didn't go out their mistwelve three throw in Game 163 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:03.000 five like did Coach Bud didn't have Drew Holiday. Drew Holiday just getting lit 164 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:07.720 up by Jimmy Butler, like play after play after play he can throw something, 165 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:11.559 can I can throw something into your point because I want to put this 166 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:13.960 in here before we get into another because I know you'll you'll transition to something 167 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:18.840 else from this. But the other thing is well too, because I agree 168 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:22.240 Jannis missing the twelve free throws to me, that's low hanging fruit. You 169 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:26.159 want to you really want to understand how bad it was for the Milwaukee Bucks, 170 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:33.080 Maybe talk to Drew Holiday when in both games made critical turnovers as your 171 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:39.080 point guard, critical turnovers that led to the heat getting open transition baskets and 172 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:45.279 also diminishing the opportunity for the Milwaukee Bucks to finish the deal right Chris Middleton 173 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:50.480 silly fouls towards the final minutes in both of those games, not being able 174 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:52.639 to stay it sticks day in defend, which you can, And it's gonna 175 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.679 be another part of the conversation we're gonna have shaw about what are we talking 176 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:03.480 about now with Chris Middleton? Can this trifecta may be sustainable for the Bucks 177 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:07.080 moving forward if there's expectations about them, you know, going to try to 178 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:11.240 compete for another championship Because of what we've been seeing, it can clearly tell 179 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:15.600 Middleton is not still one hundred percent, and we don't know if you will 180 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:18.039 ever be one hundred percent. But I'm just putting the emphasis on the idea 181 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.960 that while everyone was fixated on Yanni's missing those twelve free throws, that should 182 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:28.480 not have been the only reason why we're talking about the Bucks mishandling this like. 183 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:33.759 They have made so many silly mistakes outside of not getting to the free 184 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:37.039 throw line and executing those free throws. They made it much harder than themselves. 185 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.399 Un necessary. Yeah, they took bad shots, true, holiday specifically, 186 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:43.720 so the turnovers, even the decision making with some of the shots they 187 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:48.120 got rushed, They got forced into things that they should have had more requisite, 188 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:50.879 you know, poise for a team that has won an NBA championship. 189 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:54.639 So to me, it was more of an indictment on the collective unit than 190 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:58.240 laying it at any one person's feet, whether actually Drew Janns coach, But 191 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:03.519 it was a elect of loss and it's and it's kind of sad to see 192 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:05.679 that a team like this could have turned it on the way they did and 193 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:09.080 battle a lot of injuries throughout the course of the regular season to gain the 194 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:13.080 number one seed regardless, and felt like they were playing the best basketball they 195 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.759 possibly could and lose in the first round in devastating fashion, not even six 196 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:20.960 or seven games, like two fourth quarter collapses. So at your point about 197 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:24.240 Middleton is very well made. He does have a player option all coming off 198 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:28.720 you know, obviously one of his worst years in recent history of the injuries 199 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:31.679 just never really let him get right. But he's old, forty million dollars 200 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:33.399 next year, you know, it's the last year of his deal. Does 201 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:35.840 he opt out? I mean, would he really opt out? And feel 202 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:39.360 like he can maybe get a longer term deal with Milwaukee or go somewhere else, 203 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:41.559 and he's not going to come at forty million dollars again, Like I 204 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:46.159 think that those days are gone, So he probably opts in and they probably 205 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:48.799 make one more run at this. The bigger question, maybe not the bigger, 206 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:52.440 but an equally big question is brook Lopez. And he's obviously one of 207 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:56.679 the big linch pinces of their defense, and he's old a pretty significant raise. 208 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:00.240 Yes, he's what thirty five, thirty four, thirty five years old, 209 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:03.120 um, but he's probably got at least two three more good years in 210 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.840 him now, and they have him at as the steepest of discounts, playing 211 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.240 him thirteen million dollars this past year. He's I mean, he's a good 212 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:11.000 guy. I don't know if he's gonna be like, oh yeah, oh 213 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:13.120 shucks, let me Bobby Port is this and I'll let you get me for 214 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.159 you know, twelve to fifteen million dollars. He's going to get a substantial 215 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.279 raise and can get that from elsewhere. So the Bucks, despite having to 216 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:22.879 fix a heart problem so to speak in terms of how they exited in this 217 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:28.360 playoff, have real issues in terms of how they're going to roster construct because 218 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:31.399 they have no picks because of the Drew Holiday trade. So it's all second 219 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:33.360 round stuff here for the next couple of couple of seasons, in addition to 220 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:37.039 trying to find what you're gonna do with Brook Lopez even Joe Ingles. So 221 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:39.879 they brought in you know, that was a one year situation. Jay Crowder, 222 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:45.039 you know all that he made. He even alluded to the fact that 223 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:48.759 he had no idea, He didn't had no I didn't know what role on 224 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:52.519 this team. Um So, so that's tough, right like, and there's 225 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:56.279 a there's not a lot of great pathways to roster construction. Yes, they 226 00:14:56.279 --> 00:15:00.000 are a good team, and maybe they can get some veterans at a discount, 227 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:03.320 but there doesn't seem to be an influxive young talent unless you're land to 228 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:07.000 move off in Middleton or maybe some many other bigger pieces. So so let 229 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:11.080 me bring up two quick points, especially with the reason why I brought up 230 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:15.960 to Jay Crowder situation. Does it not does it really surprise you that we 231 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:26.240 didn't see more of Crowder playing on Jimmy Butler, Like more minutes expended on 232 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:31.080 Crowder defending Butler, after Butler has these explosive games due to the course of 233 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:37.679 this series, I don't know if it. I mean, if Budd didn't 234 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:39.519 have the confidence in Crowder to play, that's not what it was. I 235 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:45.080 think. No, I'm not questioning confidence, I'm questioning strategy. In other 236 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:48.879 words, if you're leaving Chris Middleton out there. The reason why the Milwaukee 237 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:54.559 Bucks have been a successful of basketball team over the last few years prior to 238 00:15:54.759 --> 00:16:00.639 Middleton's injury was Middleton's propensity to step up to be that next guy for Yannis. 239 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:06.320 Right that wound up being the responsibility of Drew Holiday. But if you 240 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:11.879 asked Drew Holiday, he would rather be defending Jimmy Butler than worrying about having 241 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:15.240 to score thirty five. But if Middleton is not scoring and Middleton is not 242 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:19.919 defending, then what purpose does he serve on that basketball court when the one 243 00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:26.279 person that the Miami Heat has is cooking you this whole series, and you 244 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:29.440 don't make an adjustment to say, okay, fine, if I got to 245 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.399 relign more on Drew to score to basketball next to Jannis, I gotta get 246 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:37.840 somebody to put a body to put some physicality on Butler, and it surprised 247 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:45.320 me that there wasn't a move by Budenholzer to put Crowder on Butler at least 248 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:51.240 during portions where the Bucks needed to stimy. You're not gonna stop him, 249 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:55.000 but at least put something on him to just at least create some kind of 250 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:57.639 fission in his ability to score at will. I'm just saying, like, 251 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:03.440 I'm just surprised that they stuck with this particular game plan that they had for 252 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.200 as long as they did and never tried to make some kind of an adjustment 253 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.039 from a defensive perspective to alleviate the concerns that you knew was going to rule 254 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:15.400 its ugly head at the end of games when they were playing the Heat. 255 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.599 I mean, I think if it's if you're Bud, and I agree with 256 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:19.960 you were saying in terms of the aspect of like, well, clearly what's 257 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:23.160 happening. It's not working. But Drew Holidays is an all world defender and 258 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:26.119 just got cooked. He just got Yeah, he got cooked. Absolutely, 259 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:32.319 you do have to make change different looks. But the Heat oftentime would run 260 00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:36.319 pick and roll and get Chris Middleton to switch on to Butler, which also 261 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:40.599 was to Butler's favor. And an advantage. So I think the Crowder minutes 262 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:42.279 the only played forty one minutes in the series. They tried West Matthews on 263 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:45.440 and West Matthews I think only played in Game one and then in four and 264 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:48.960 five, so he saw a little bit of time on him as well. 265 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:52.440 I think a lot of people kept saying, well why not trap why not 266 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:56.000 put your honest on him at times as well too. Anyway, the Butler 267 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:59.480 strategy was was full hardly didn't work. And you know, now they're home, 268 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:02.039 obviously, I think now we just got to focus on, right, 269 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.279 well, how did they get better? Um? Is there a pathway to 270 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:07.680 that? And um, I think you know financial as alluded to, they're 271 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:11.240 they're strapped, but are they willing to pay and go and deep into the 272 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:15.079 luxury attacks? Probably? Um, And they're probably willing to at least go 273 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:18.200 one more year with this. I don't know if Bud's going to get let 274 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:22.240 go or anything like that too. I think it's a it's a popular and 275 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:26.039 easy narrative to kind of already done it. Nick Nurse so and I mean 276 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:30.720 and again we've talked obviously we talked about the raptors and Nick Nurses again, 277 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:34.559 I'm going to keep using utile as the phrase. I think he's he's gimmicky 278 00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:38.960 and can't he you know, work is with finangle his way into the situation 279 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:41.359 there? I don't, I don't know. I'd rather see him maybe come 280 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:45.079 on as some sort of a top level assistant as opposed to replaced the bud 281 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:47.480 outright, and then if it doesn't work this year, then maybe he's your 282 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:51.839 guy. Um. I'd be surprised if Milwaukee makes any drastic changes, um, 283 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:53.200 you know, and I think it maybe there there's somewhat in the in 284 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:57.279 the uh, beholden to what Chris Middleton ultimately decides to do, because if 285 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:00.880 he decides to opt out of that forty million dollars, well then you know, 286 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.759 a lot can happen as a result of that potentially. But Mike, 287 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.400 I suspect that they run this back at least one more year, figure out 288 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.160 what they need to do with Lopez, and then we'll be seeing where they 289 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:12.759 land next year. And I think they'll be focused, but we're all going 290 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:15.960 to be waiting as we were years to the before they won the NBA Championships, 291 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:18.480 like prove it in the playoffs, and that's all Milwaukee has to do 292 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:22.119 right now, right in the playoffs. So next year, Shaw, I 293 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:25.480 think is going to be a very interesting year. To your point with regards 294 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:27.400 to the Milwaukee Bucks, I'll put it to like how you were basically putting 295 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:32.599 it, if if Middleton opts in, they're going to have to address the 296 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:37.759 supplemental parts of the surrounding parts for that team to accentuate what I don't know, 297 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:40.720 and we don't know with confidence that they're going to be able to give 298 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:42.160 you that they've already been given you for the last three years, right, 299 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:48.240 Like I don't want to say that the height of jew Holiday's powers is what 300 00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:51.960 we're seeing, you know, and it is the same for Chris Middleton. 301 00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:55.839 But I will say that this team has taken a step back athletically, right. 302 00:19:55.880 --> 00:20:00.400 They're not as athletic, but they have savvy players and maybe that was 303 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.759 where they were positioning themselves to get quality shooters here. You know, with 304 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:07.880 them having Grayson Allen, you would have thought that that would like that to 305 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.599 me is like a Devin Chans a wash, right, So this team, 306 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:15.920 to me, needs to get better athletically. They need guys that I think 307 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:18.799 can create some discomfort to some of the premier wing players that they're going to 308 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:22.599 be dealing with for the next three to five years. But the bigger point 309 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:25.000 to this Shaw and I think it is going to be the outlying question. 310 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:30.640 Here's where my eulogy comes in. Does loyalty becomes a liability? Because when 311 00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.480 you listen to how Janis speaks, if it's up to him, he's keeping 312 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:37.519 this same group of guys. But if it's about winning a championship, is 313 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:42.839 that the priority that should be dictating what you want to see for this team 314 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:48.559 going into next year because you may have to make the hard decision like teams 315 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:51.799 like the Golden State Warriors had to and teams like the Los Angeles Lakers have 316 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:55.519 had to. This is about the business of winning a championship, and it 317 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:59.839 may mean one or two of these guys can't be on the roster because they're 318 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:03.240 not gonna help you be positioned to win moving forward. Yeah, well, 319 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:07.119 I think your point is very well made. I don't necessarily know about the 320 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:10.440 athleticism part, but they are also very They're a little bit older, you 321 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:11.400 know, they got to be one of those I think they wanted a lot 322 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:15.920 from bou Shamp, Right, bou Shamp and look how like how little he 323 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:18.720 was basically used in this series. You know what I'm saying. Now, 324 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:22.880 Again, we could be sitting there questioning Bo knows his decisions on this, 325 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:26.839 but you could also be making a valid pointed through the course of the year, 326 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:30.680 was there anything that these guys that were on the roster did to significantly 327 00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:37.920 elevate their their necessity for what the Bucks needed to do to make this run 328 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:40.599 for a championship. And you can look at it across the other way too, 329 00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:44.440 with the Golden State Warriors. We talked highly about how they have a 330 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:47.839 very good athletic group of guys that stepped up in some way, shape or 331 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:49.640 form to help them in the championship last year. How much of there being 332 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:53.119 used in this series right now against the Sacramento Kings, Right. So, 333 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.680 that's what I'm saying, Like, there's gonna be a decision made and a 334 00:21:56.680 --> 00:22:00.640 lot of it is going to be predicated on what the headhuho, which we're 335 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.480 saying is Janna, is based on how he sees the culture of this team 336 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.680 and what's important to him about this team's success. And you you heard him 337 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:11.599 say it on the post conference. I'm just saying to me. I think 338 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:15.319 it's going to permeate on the decision making process about what this team is going 339 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.640 to look like next year and what changes they're going to have to make in 340 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:22.039 order to shore up what they clearly saw God exposed to them in this first 341 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.200 round series. Now, I mean, but again, well, I don't 342 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:27.400 want to not to go back and forth. I think they have more of 343 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:33.200 a of a heart issue than they do a roster issue, and they were 344 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:37.559 they have some roster decisions that need to be made and some some some really 345 00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:40.519 intentional scouting needs to happen. I think for them to maybe get some two 346 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:44.039 way guys and even some second round picks that can maybe make those roster to 347 00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:45.400 maybe address some of the things that you're talking about. But they are, 348 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.799 by by my estimate, you know, one of the older teams in the 349 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:52.000 league here now especially, but most of your guys you know at least twenty 350 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:56.440 eight and up um Janice is what twenty eight, twenty nine, but middletonso 351 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.160 thirty plus b Glopez thirty five. I mean, it's gonna be tough, 352 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:04.720 but Milwaukee is one of the better teams in the league, definitely on paper. 353 00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:07.839 But they have some things they got to figure out intentionally and internally. 354 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.880 I think it comes to their mindset that's going to have to make them better 355 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:15.079 if they actually want to win another NBA championship. I'm telling you, man, 356 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.119 you talk about maybe we're gonna have to step up that plan about getting 357 00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:22.240 that getting that incinerator going. Man, that's just guys. I don't want 358 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.039 to be spreading out any ashes on the Milwaukee Bucks, but I gotta tell 359 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:29.839 you, man, with the way that the Eastern Conference is shaped up, 360 00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.400 Shaw, this window of opportunity for them to go back there again and maybe 361 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:37.920 get that chip, it's obviously gonna get a lot harder come next year. 362 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:41.559 So the decision will not will not come easier. Your tune to the baseline, 363 00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:45.599 Klie Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA coming up. Sean 364 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:53.000 and I will focus our attention on another team in that very gauntlet like Central 365 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:57.680 Division, the Cleveland Cavaliers. High expectations for them, they probably should be 366 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:02.319 advancing, but they got house. Did Does that mean that they're not who 367 00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:04.680 we thought they were? We'll give you our Denny Green take on this here 368 00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:12.839 on the baseline. We are back Callie Warrenshaw baseline NBA podcasts are coveted autopsy 369 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:18.319 reports, and next on the slab, we're putting the Cleveland Cavaliers. We're 370 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:22.160 putting them on the examination examiner's table. Shaw. So here's here's a team 371 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.440 that you know, we said from the outset, the way that this team 372 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:32.480 looks and is constructed, they're gonna make some noise. And you can make 373 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:34.599 the argument Shaw, they really did make some noise. They came out as 374 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:41.200 a four seeded team in the Eastern Conference. The big acquisition of Donovan Mitchell 375 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:48.480 clearly was an up grade for our expectations for this team. I thought it 376 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:52.640 was lofty to expect them to probably be better than the Boston Celtics or the 377 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:57.839 Milwaukee Bucks. But what we saw from this is a team that is on 378 00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:00.880 the come up. Then they run into I don't want to call it a 379 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:04.880 buzz saw, but they obviously ran into something playing against the New York Knicks, 380 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:10.799 and now all of a sudden people are questioning the makeup of this team. 381 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:12.799 All of a sudden, this is a team that won fifty one games. 382 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:15.799 Shaw, What was the last team the last time the Cleveland Cavaliers won 383 00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:22.839 fifty one games? Okay, so, yeah, say, how many iterations 384 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.920 of Lebron right, like Lebron Lebron two point er? Like it's if not 385 00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:33.680 for Lebron, this team, this organization doesn't sniff fifty something games last year. 386 00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:37.039 However, prior to making the move of getting Donovan Mitchell, this team 387 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.200 was showing signs of being a promising basketball team, and they made decisions, 388 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:47.160 good decisions that I think really made this team collectively together look like a team 389 00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:49.599 that has a future, so not only being successful this year, but also 390 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:53.440 sustainable success for the next few seasons. But then when you run into a 391 00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:57.039 situation like playing against a team like the New York Knicks, where you can 392 00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:02.279 make the argument that this roster shaw it looks like a better team than what 393 00:26:02.359 --> 00:26:04.880 the New York Knicks has at you know, out there on a night in 394 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.799 night out basis, you didn't start to wonder, Okay, where the chinks 395 00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:14.240 in the armor? And and is this part of their the process of their 396 00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:19.000 growth and maturation to be an elite team in their respective conference. Yeah, 397 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:22.640 well, I mean it's not all lost, right, The Knicks were just 398 00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:27.200 more physical than they were and Fibbs, I think in some ways, um, 399 00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:30.960 you know, did a nice job, really great job coaching coaching this 400 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:34.759 next basketball team. Cleveland ran into the issue of not having enough shooting um 401 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.319 some guys, the moment being a little bit too big for them. I 402 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:41.319 remember speaking on Mad Boosti's podcast with our guy Jabari a couple of months ago, 403 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:44.440 and they're like, well, do you think the Calves are going to 404 00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:45.279 make a deep run? I said, I think the best that he can 405 00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:48.000 go is a second round. And they said, what do you need? 406 00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:49.119 What do they need? It is like they need shooting. They need shooting 407 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:52.119 at especially at that three, at that three position, that wing position. 408 00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:56.559 That seemed to be extremely true. You know, they shot thirty two percent. 409 00:26:56.599 --> 00:27:00.920 I think in the series, Donovan Mitchell didn't look rate, you know, 410 00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:03.039 in that and the Knicks just were more physical and figured out a way 411 00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:07.720 to and just beat them up on their boards, especially which makes no sense 412 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:10.200 when you have Mobile and Jared Allen. Like I just for the life of 413 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.200 me, I don't understand how much Robinson dominated them in the way that they 414 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:17.960 did. But to me, Cleveland was probably a year away from being really 415 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:21.440 competitive in the Eastern Conference. I did at least expect this series to go 416 00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:23.960 six or seven games and I actually thought the Cavs had enough talent wise to 417 00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:26.359 get to the second round. I wouldn't have picked them in a second round 418 00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:30.880 past that. But the way to lose this way, you know, to 419 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.519 this NIXT team that is clearly better than maybe a lot of us even gave 420 00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.880 them credit for um is somewhat of an indictment on Cleveland, but also more 421 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.279 or less saying that they just weren't ready. And the questions about Donovan Mitchell 422 00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:44.119 and he is either guy and all that stuff was a gonna start to come 423 00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:48.440 up again, and those are right. But listen, this cav team is 424 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:52.200 slightly ahead of schedule, but they have some pieces they need to fix. 425 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.079 They need some shooting on this roster. Don't know what they're gonna do with 426 00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:56.599 Karaster Verton, if they're going to try to bring him back, But they 427 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:02.720 have one major, major monumental piece house that can ultimately reach the next level 428 00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:04.559 for them, and that's m Immobili. He's still has a scratch the surface, 429 00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:07.599 and he had a terrible playoffs. It's terrible, But if he can 430 00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:11.440 figure out and become the guy that we all think he can be, there's 431 00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:15.240 a lot more upside on this Cavs team than probably meets the eye. Yeah, 432 00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:18.920 So I find it interesting Shaw that what you had mentioned earlier before about 433 00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:23.839 physicality is the one thing that I think and maybe we never use that terminology 434 00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:27.920 or that phrase more so over the course of what our evaluation was regarding this 435 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:32.720 Cavs team, because I agree with you, I think that this team has 436 00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:36.920 a lot of speed, has a lot of athleticism, has a lot of 437 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:41.839 savvy, right. I find them to be a team that you can watch 438 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.759 play and have fun watching them play. But at the same time, when 439 00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:49.359 you're playing in the playoffs, there comes a time when all of that doesn't 440 00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:53.440 mean squat like you actually have to body up guys, right, you got 441 00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:59.160 you gotta get into trenches. And they played scared basketball. They did not 442 00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:03.599 play as a loose as I think the regular season afforded them the space and 443 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:07.319 opportunity for them to be able to do these kind of things. And I 444 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:10.480 don't care if it's you know you're questioning is a level of experimentation if you 445 00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:15.720 want to put it on Bickerstaff, whatever, I'm just saying that the guys 446 00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:21.000 collectively, to me, did not understand the magnitude because remember last year, 447 00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:22.920 they were in the play in, but they didn't get in, right. 448 00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:29.079 So this move of getting Donovan Mitchell, while Donovan Mitchell is a is a 449 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:32.559 guy that you would love to see and you know, he's great as far 450 00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:36.119 as you know. You put him in high level situations and he's a great 451 00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:38.519 scorer, that doesn't mean that like he's the guy that you're gonna say, 452 00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:42.680 hey, I want you guarding my you know, the opposing team's best dude, 453 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:48.279 right, because now you're trying to protect him, when in essence, 454 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.279 he has to be that guy. I think a lot of it is just 455 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:53.200 in the things that you do and not if the things that you say or 456 00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:56.880 whatever your statistics reflect or show you you know what I'm saying. So if 457 00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:02.519 if Donovan is not scoring as many points as Jalen Brunson, if Donovan is 458 00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:06.599 not grabbing as many rebounds, you know, as not I say Richard Robinson, 459 00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:08.359 but let us just say Julius Randall if he was healthy, right, 460 00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:12.279 if he's not, you know, imposing his will on guys in different ways 461 00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.119 and shapes the other guys don't know how to take suit and don't know how 462 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.079 to do that, you know, and it's just interesting to me on how 463 00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:22.720 that played itself out, because remember the Knicks were in the playoffs a couple 464 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.119 of seasons ago, right, and they got the taste of what that was 465 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:32.119 like. Evan Mobley lived Julius Randall's best life in this season because he didn't 466 00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:34.759 show up for this this first round of the playoffs, and while not harping 467 00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:40.200 on the playoffs, this was indicative of the type of season that Mobley had. 468 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:42.599 We speak about him in high regard for a certain stint, and then 469 00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:45.400 he falls off the face of the earth, like falls off the map, 470 00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.400 the same thing we did with Jared Allen. And then we also can say 471 00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:52.359 that about Darius Garland. You know, there was a you know, Darius 472 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:55.160 Garland is an All Star, but everyone was sitting here saying, man, 473 00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:59.279 you know this guy, he's exactly when that choice was made about whether you're 474 00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:03.759 keeping him or Sexton. This is why we kept Darius Garland. None of 475 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:08.960 that really came to form the back half of the latter half of this the 476 00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:12.519 regular season going into the playoffs. He didn't have a lot of momentum swinging 477 00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:15.680 his way. So a lot of this stuff is learning Curbshaw. But I 478 00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:21.640 cautioned this in saying that they have to have a different mentality going into next 479 00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:27.119 year about showing that versatility and evolving with that versatility when they're competing against these 480 00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:30.359 different teams, teams that may not shoot the ball as well as they do, 481 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:33.799 but they can physically match up with them with their shots not going you 482 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:37.720 know, having guys get to the basket. You know what I'm saying at 483 00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:40.720 Will like, they have to be more free with the way that they play. 484 00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:42.799 They have to take that stigma off their back. It's going to be 485 00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:45.559 interesting to see if whether that growth take place come next year, if it's 486 00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:49.119 going to be another year after that before we actually start seeing that from this 487 00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:52.200 Cavalier's team. Yeah. I mean, well, it's interesting because I think 488 00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:57.359 their defense was top rated in the regular season, and we didn't see that 489 00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:01.279 same level of aggression. They weren't bad defensively, they were just worst offensively. 490 00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:05.440 They didn't have they didn't match up to the offensive progress that they had, 491 00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:07.039 you know as a ninth grade team you know, in the NBA this 492 00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:09.839 past season. Um, that to me, I think is the bigger, 493 00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:14.720 bigger question and how can they get better offensively? Um? And some of 494 00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:16.799 it will revolve around Mobili. Some other people I've listened that and talked to 495 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:21.640 talked about, well, maybe they need to move Alan off and try to 496 00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:23.720 figure out a way to put Mobile at the five full time. But then 497 00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:27.480 there's a conversation it's like, well is he physical? Is he ready enough? 498 00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:30.200 Can he feel loud enough to play the five full times? Or to 499 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:32.319 better suited at the four. I think the bigger question is what they do 500 00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:37.519 with Isaaca Corom and how do they address again the wing position and even again 501 00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:43.039 Carol Slavert, those are those are two guys who I don't know what their 502 00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:46.240 future is in Cleveland. And the money that the Calves are having committed obviously, 503 00:32:46.279 --> 00:32:49.920 because when you have a guy like Donovan Mitchell and Dearis Garland and then 504 00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:52.119 eventually you're gonna to pay up Formobile as well, you're kind of caps trapped 505 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:55.160 yet again, you know, And that's and that's kind of like the crux 506 00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:00.480 of your team. So what are the supplemental parts and auxiliary parts that compliment 507 00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:06.519 those three main guys um and I don't know exactly who what those pieces look 508 00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:08.680 like right now, but Kobe Altman has done a pretty good job, I 509 00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:13.240 think, especially in years recent more recent years of building the team to where 510 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.640 it is. But this is a precarious situation I think for the Calves are 511 00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:22.400 like they're they're they're one step away from kind of just taking another taking another 512 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:24.519 step, I really, but if they go wrong, like they could just 513 00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:27.319 kind of be in the middle, you know, and be a four or 514 00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:29.680 five seat for a very very long time, I think with this roster. 515 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:32.519 And again it really depends on how how well and how fast Mobile is going 516 00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:36.319 to grow. But they do need to make some tweaks on the on the 517 00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:37.880 on the edges, as they say, to kind of get some more shooting 518 00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:42.279 and some complimental help to to Mitchell Garland and Mobile. So just so then 519 00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:45.559 I'm clear. And what you were talking about before, you know, obviously 520 00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:49.839 you're saying that they were just so bad offensively, right that no matter what 521 00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:52.640 they did from a defensive perspective, And it's and and and I'm not questioning 522 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:54.720 it. I'm just wanting to make sure that I'm clear. What your perspective 523 00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:59.119 is is that if they just had better offense, then this probably would have 524 00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:02.279 told a different story. Worry about what the outcome of this first round would 525 00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:06.160 have been against the new York Knicks. Yeah, they have verged ninety four 526 00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:08.599 points per game. Right, No, no, no, And I'm and 527 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:14.800 and I'm there with you. I think to me, Shaw though that And 528 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:19.719 this is what we've often talked about. If you're not a great offensive team, 529 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.519 if this is what's been you know, you've been carrying with through the 530 00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:24.679 rest of the year, that only amplifies how much better you have to be 531 00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:30.440 defensively, especially going into the playoffs. Right now, you're playing against a 532 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:34.280 team that you know, I mean, they were good, they were, 533 00:34:34.760 --> 00:34:39.280 Listen, they were They're decent offensively enough right to have four or less wins 534 00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:44.239 to getting into that playoff, right to be the fifth seed. But they 535 00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:51.239 do had they did have two established star players, right, not better than 536 00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:54.440 Jana's, not better than Brown or Tatum, the two established star players. 537 00:34:55.000 --> 00:35:01.800 One of those star players got off right, like didn't matter who they were, 538 00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:06.719 who they put on him. Jalen Brunson went off. And what I'm 539 00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:10.480 saying is is to a player, if you're Donovan Mitchell or Darius Garland or 540 00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:19.840 Careless carros Lavert or whoever, you cannot let that guy beat you. It's 541 00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:22.159 like just what we talked about with the Milwaukee Bucks. Like, if you're 542 00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:28.920 Yannis and you see that Holiday ain't got it tonight, Middleton, ain't got 543 00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:31.400 it tonight. I understand that you are the man, You're the most dominant, 544 00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:36.000 but you can't let that guy get you tonight. You gotta step up 545 00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:39.000 and take that. Dude. You gotta do it. You have to show 546 00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:43.920 those guys. And so that's what I'm saying. If you brought Donovan Mitchell 547 00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:45.960 in here, I get why you brought him in here because of what he 548 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:51.000 can give you offensively, But even on that, if you're the number one 549 00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:54.239 team defensively and the one person that's out there Ed is cooking you, it's 550 00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:58.360 still cooking you. You're Donovan Mitchell, I'm like, no, I got 551 00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:01.039 this, dude, I gotta get it has to happen. If nothing, 552 00:36:01.079 --> 00:36:06.400 You're saying something to the rest of these guys that like, this is where 553 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:08.199 you got to lock in. You know what I'm saying. You got to 554 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:14.239 minimize their opportunities to score, to maximize our opportunities to win. And that's 555 00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:15.639 all that I'm saying. Like that to me is what I was more on 556 00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:21.159 the emphasis of when I talk about the defensive is a mentality or the approach 557 00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:24.599 of how you're attacking the situation against the opposing team due the course of the 558 00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:28.840 series and that type of transition. I'll give you a great example, I 559 00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:30.679 think you know even to what you're talking about. Look at Devin Booker in 560 00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:36.159 the first round versus Clippers. Devin Booker is like a high volume offensive guy, 561 00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:39.280 but took on the challenge to be great defensively in that series. And 562 00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:43.239 I think a Donovan Mitchell can take that on because it is a little bit 563 00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:45.840 of a misnomal when you look at Cleveland saying yeah, they're the number one 564 00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:50.519 rated defense, it's primarily based off of mobile and Jared Allen protecting the room 565 00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:52.920 for the most part, Garland and Donovan Mitchell or not. You know these 566 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:57.400 defensive stop gaps if you will, But if they can take on the mentality, 567 00:36:57.519 --> 00:37:00.079 especially when it comes to playoff time, like a Devin bo has was 568 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.679 what was on the first round, that can go a long way in your 569 00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:07.360 team's success, especially against the team like you know the Knicks and Gentlen Brunson 570 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.480 were. You know, that guy's really captaining and mastering their offense and everything 571 00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:14.400 they do on the other side of the basketball, or even to that point, 572 00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:17.559 Shaw, when when your back court is out rebounding your front court, 573 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:22.639 that's saying something right like, if you're Mobili and you're and you're Allen, 574 00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:28.559 you should take it personally right that the Knicks guards are out rebounding you, 575 00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:31.559 you know what I'm saying, Or your own teammates are out rebounding you. 576 00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:35.760 And so what I'm saying is it's like, sometimes it takes like that star 577 00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:39.719 player to do what these guys may not be recognizing they're not if not doing 578 00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:43.880 well, they're not doing it at all, you know what I'm saying, 579 00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:47.679 in order to spark something to turn things around for them to see your point, 580 00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:53.000 they're gonna have to make moves in this offseason to upgrade their offense. 581 00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:59.239 But that doesn't mitigate what you already have as your core reflective defensively, and 582 00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:02.039 if that is what got you to this point, they have to maintain that 583 00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:07.000 and at the same time improve on what they're lacking. And those things can 584 00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.400 be done. We've seen that with the Milwaukee Bucks in their transitional years so 585 00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:14.920 far, winning one championship, but more importantly sustainable success. Look at the 586 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:21.039 Miami Heat, right, they continually evolve with the role players. Jimmy Butler 587 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:23.639 still Jimmy Butler, but Jimmy Butler is a different Jimmy Butler when he gets 588 00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:28.519 into the playoffs. And that speaks to those guys in the locker room because 589 00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:30.719 now they see what type of switch has to be turned on within them, 590 00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:34.920 Like they gotta find another level other than the level they just gave through the 591 00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:37.400 regular season. And to me, that part of it, I think is 592 00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:40.239 going to be key in the decision making process of the type of guys that 593 00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:45.079 Altman should be thinking about if they're not planning to keep the same roster going 594 00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:50.199 into next year. Of if the guys you're getting are gonna improve, fine, 595 00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:53.519 but the guys that you already have have to take it to another level 596 00:38:53.719 --> 00:38:58.519 if they even want to even make people believe into the level of success that 597 00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:01.519 the Cavaliers are capable of having. Yeah, so, I mean that's looking 598 00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:06.119 at it Immobile and Isaaca Carl specifically, Yeah, you have your Osman's of 599 00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:07.880 the world, then do you bring back veteran Danny Green? I mean, 600 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:12.719 those are those are fringe guys who again they're gonna get spot minus not really 601 00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:15.840 make a true or tremendous impact. But Cleveland, I think is heading in 602 00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:19.840 the right direction, but they do have to be very careful about how they 603 00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:22.960 stop next, says I'm alluded to earlier, because it could just be this, 604 00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:25.320 you know, for years and years and years, which a lot of 605 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:29.840 teams might be happy and content with. But you know, I obviously that's 606 00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:31.719 not the way to go where you're just kind of like this pretty good team 607 00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:36.840 that can't get out of the first or second round. Some some of the 608 00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:38.639 things are gonna have to happen here, and hopefully Altman and company are going 609 00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:43.039 to be up to the task this offseason. Absolutely your tune to the baseline 610 00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:47.400 Callie Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA are coveted autopsy reports. 611 00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:52.440 Two teams down, one more left to go. We'll be talking about the 612 00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.719 Atlanta Hawks. But before we do that, are you tired of placing vets 613 00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:00.599 alone, not having anyone to talk to about your predictions? Actually, after 614 00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:04.239 what happened with the Calves and with the Bucks, do you want to connect 615 00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:07.760 with other sports betters and share your winning strategies, Then look no further than 616 00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:12.159 with the Sharps app, the social network for sports betters with sharps. You 617 00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:15.760 can connect with friends, see what they're betting on, and even interact with 618 00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:19.920 their bets. The iOS app connects to all major sports books and daily fantasy 619 00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.840 platforms like Draft Kings, Fan Do Bet, MGM, Prize Picks and Underdog. 620 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:29.199 Here on apps, I'm sorry. Here on the Sharp's app. If 621 00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:34.079 you download and use the promo code the B two eight six, that's our 622 00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:37.440 code, you'll receive access to the community to start showing off your betting chops 623 00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:40.960 and an opportunity to compare your bets with us. So what are you waiting 624 00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:45.440 for? Download the Sharp's apps today, use our promo code the B as 625 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:50.119 in Bravo two eight six, and start connecting with other sports betters. Don't 626 00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:53.119 forget to share your winning strategies and interact with other bet users. Join the 627 00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:57.559 social network for sports betters and take your betting games to the next level. 628 00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:04.079 Stick your neck out to win. Callie Warrenshaw Baseline NBA Podcast, Atlanta Hawks 629 00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:10.679 next on the slab. Here on the Autopsy Report. We're back Callie Warnshaw, 630 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:15.920 Baseline NBA Podcast, and this is are coveted Autopsy Reports and the next 631 00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:19.599 team that we've got up on the slab It's been a busy day today examining 632 00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:24.599 and zooming, zooming and examining the Milwaukee Bucks and the Cleveland Cavalier has been 633 00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:29.079 Next up, now we're gonna talk about the Atlanta Hawks. So this is 634 00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:31.639 a team that broke even in the regular season. Shaw got outston in the 635 00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:37.800 first round with the Boston Celtics, and I think, you know, I 636 00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:39.280 listen, I'm not trying to toot my horn in this, but I think 637 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:45.079 I've said this over the last couple of seasons with the Atlanta Hawks. I 638 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:50.039 think people want to use the word overachieved. I don't think it's a question 639 00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:53.079 of overachieved, but I do think it's a question of understanding the dynamic of 640 00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:59.480 what this team had represented and what they gave you back when Nate McMillan was 641 00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:04.519 the head coach and he came in and what you're basically seeing for the you 642 00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:08.039 know, the makeup of this basketball team as again they get knocked out, 643 00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:13.000 you know, the first round. I think the Cinderella season of them getting 644 00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:16.199 to the Eastern Conference Finals, while it being somewhat of an admiration, I 645 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.719 think it was more about the elevation of Trey Young and the type of basketball 646 00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:24.599 player that he is. But now we're at this cautionary tale of are you 647 00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:29.960 getting what you paid for? So to speak, Like, is having Trey 648 00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:32.599 Young and even if whoever you're gonna put next him in this case of Deontay 649 00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:37.679 Murray, is that's what's best for what you're talking about in order to elevate 650 00:42:37.719 --> 00:42:44.199 and win or be considered as championship basketball. We're talking about the Atlanta Hawks. 651 00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:49.360 So let's start with something has nothing to do with the series, right. 652 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:52.360 I think that the athletic put out a poll of the most underrated player 653 00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:58.000 in the NBA, and Trey Young's name came up. Knowing that overrated not 654 00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:02.199 overrated. I was about to say, well, and who asked that question? 655 00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:08.880 So I mean it's interesting because playoff Tray, if there is such a 656 00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:15.159 thing, isn't terrible. He's there's I think there's a version of Trey Young 657 00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:16.840 where you're like, yeah, he's he's built and ready for some of that, 658 00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:21.400 some of that smoke and some of that movement. But the teams that 659 00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:25.079 he's been on just again, they're they weren't meant to go on and ultimately 660 00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:29.639 lose to better, to better and more well, constructed rosters. This this 661 00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:35.159 team has just had so much this function and he is at the very center 662 00:43:35.199 --> 00:43:37.039 of a lot of it. You know, I'm not getting along with certain 663 00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:40.000 coaches and now they're bringing Quinn Snyder and everybody is on the Quinn Snyder train. 664 00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:44.320 M He was thirteen and fifteen, you know, in his tenure at 665 00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:45.960 in the close season. But it's hard, you know, to try to 666 00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:49.840 make that, make that change and make those adjustments and institute all of your 667 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:52.480 stuff. Will they be better than next next year? I don't know, 668 00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:55.000 you know, I don't know, but I think the narrative of Trey Young 669 00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:59.039 is really interesting. And then you have is he meant to be there long 670 00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:02.920 term? Um? I would be I would. I wouldn't necessarily be surprised, 671 00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:06.239 but it would. It would come out a little bit of an eyebrow 672 00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:09.920 raise to me if Trey Young's name is rumored and a lot of stuff this 673 00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:14.039 this this summer. But some people seem to think that that could be the 674 00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:16.119 potential case. Here He's old a crap ton of money, you know, 675 00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:21.599 over the next four years, and I think, you know, with Atlanta 676 00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:24.000 making the move to move him on and get Luca and all those that you 677 00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:28.400 know that conversation is coming on or whatever the case may be. But I 678 00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:32.119 don't know if Trey Young is a franchise guy. But I think there's it's 679 00:44:32.119 --> 00:44:37.199 somewhere in the middle of him being a franchise guy and being overrated, and 680 00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:38.519 I don't know. I guess I'll through the question back to you. Do 681 00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:43.559 you think Trey Young is a franchise building piece? Can he be your number 682 00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:45.119 one guy? Or does he need to be more of a number two? 683 00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:52.360 He's not a franchise building piece, because but I would I would actually caution 684 00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:55.159 that and saying what kind of franchise are you building? Shaw, because the 685 00:44:55.320 --> 00:45:04.440 Atlanta Hawks or are somewhat u They're not what we consider in the tradition of 686 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:07.719 that, and I think a lot of that is driven the decision making process 687 00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:10.400 that's been made over the last you know, a couple of years. They 688 00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:17.159 had a window. They genuinely had a window. And I think now you 689 00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:22.440 can actually make the argument that we answer what you asked me pretty much answered 690 00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:28.719 the question and of itself. If Nate McMillan helped get you to an Eastern 691 00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:32.800 Conference finals, I don't understand or see where what happened the following season. 692 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:37.280 Yes, some moves were made, I understand that, but you and of 693 00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:43.079 itself, you know, Trey Young should essentially be the cornerstone reason that gets 694 00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:46.840 everyone else on board in order to make this transition that this team is gonna 695 00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:50.679 be here and is gonna be here to stay. You're gonna win that Southeast 696 00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:53.199 Division. You're gonna be among one of the top three teams that never happened, 697 00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:58.519 never came to fruition. And so obviously now you start losing pieces then, 698 00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:01.639 and I don't only act to inspiration, but obviously in a commitment to 699 00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:05.199 say we still want you to be our guy, we come and we get 700 00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:10.400 you, Deontay Murray. And in that it obviously leads to certain things happening 701 00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:15.360 off the court where there's clearly a clash between McMillan and Young. Now you've 702 00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:19.920 got Quinn Snyder. And remember when we had this conversation about Quinn Snyder being 703 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:23.639 hired Shaw, everyone is looking at this perspective about Quinn Snyder coming in and 704 00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:30.559 and and and you know, innovating this offense probably or you know, giving 705 00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:34.400 this team obviously some a much needed spark sort of speak or another voice in 706 00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:37.880 the locker room. Nah Man, this is a valuation time. You need 707 00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:43.159 a credible head coach who's going to be able to properly say I can win 708 00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:47.480 with him or I can win without him. And I think this is what's 709 00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:52.239 going to happen. If we're going to talk about Trey Young being a cornerstone 710 00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:55.280 player, he's got to learn how to win with Quinn Snyder, and I 711 00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:59.840 don't know if that's gonna happen now. I think Deontay Murray is on board, 712 00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:02.639 and I think Quinn might say I can win with Deonte, but I 713 00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:07.480 think he's gonna be questioning in this offseason based off of what Trey Young does 714 00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:12.480 when they come back around for this upcoming season and say are you all in 715 00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:16.880 for this? Are you not? And again, the Atlanta Hawks are in 716 00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:22.559 that space where if it's gonna be bad for both, right, it's gonna 717 00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:24.679 be bad for the Hawks, but I think it's it's gonna be a temporary 718 00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:29.800 sting. But for Trey Young, it's even worse because nowhere else wherever you 719 00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:34.320 get traded to, other teams have committed themselves to some of the younger talent 720 00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:37.639 that they have, and Young is still young, right, he's a young 721 00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:39.639 person, but they're already committed to some of the guys that they already have. 722 00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:42.800 Where are you gonna make the room to say that Trey Young's gonna come 723 00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:45.119 in and he's like building block. You know, we're gonna rather shell out 724 00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:51.320 supermax money for if he couldn't get the Atlanta Hawks to sustain a level of 725 00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:57.800 success after getting to the Eastern Conference finals. So I don't know where where 726 00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:00.639 he's if there's, like I said, if there's a real market for him, 727 00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:02.159 or they're really going to try to move him. I think, you 728 00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:06.119 know, with them bringing on the John in this off season, they were 729 00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:08.239 kind of committing to this backcourt. I'll say nothing else. I wouldn't expect 730 00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:13.159 any major moves in Atlanta, at least for the next year, specifically because 731 00:48:13.239 --> 00:48:15.760 Quinn just got there. So you give Snyder a year to implement his stuff, 732 00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:19.920 get his guys in, get a system in, improve on this defense, 733 00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:22.440 which was twenty second, you know, in terms of defensive rating this 734 00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:24.800 past year, but was one of the top rated offensive teams. So there 735 00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:29.280 are pieces here that that can make it good. You know, I don't 736 00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:30.800 even want to talk. It's like there's certain conversations and artist I don't even 737 00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:34.239 want to talk about anymore. And whether or not John Collins it's going to 738 00:48:34.239 --> 00:48:36.519 be in Atlanta anymore, I don't know. I don't I don't even care 739 00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:39.840 well, I think, but my thing Shaw is you're saying they're they're gonna 740 00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:44.599 probably run this back, and I'm hike, you're running backwards with this. 741 00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:50.559 Collins and Young do not work. Actually Collins is getting worse. Then. 742 00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:53.920 My standpoint is more of of of Snyder coming in and being the difference maker 743 00:48:53.960 --> 00:48:57.920 to anything else that they've had before. I think I'd imagine that's how they're 744 00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:00.000 seeing it right. Landry feels as the general manager there now is like, 745 00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:04.639 hey, we gotta an established coach who's had a lot of success, you 746 00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.480 know, especially in the Western Conference, you know with those Utah teams. 747 00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:10.280 Maybe this is the guy who can make it work. But I just think 748 00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:15.559 the conversation gets you know, tainted and old because will you or do it 749 00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:17.519 or don't? I think with the John caused conversation, and then there's even 750 00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:21.920 the Clint Capella conversation as well too, So I don't have a lot of 751 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:23.880 confidences that are going to break this team up. They have a lot of 752 00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:27.599 guys committed at least past next year, and then I think, you know, 753 00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:30.239 with Snyder having a full year to do his own system, then they 754 00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:34.559 can make probably a better and reformed evaluation of how they need to go. 755 00:49:34.599 --> 00:49:37.559 But that absolutely moved to move away from her to Hunters, a guy that 756 00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:39.519 they want to invest in as well then have invested in. But what do 757 00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:43.679 they do with speak Bay? Like? Those things are kind of the the 758 00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:45.440 misnomers. But I think the core of this team is going to be pretty 759 00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:47.760 much what we saw this year, right. But it does speak to the 760 00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:54.239 question that you asked earlier Shaw, Is Trey Young a person that you can 761 00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:59.800 build around? Right? And I'm just saying, look at the remaining p 762 00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:02.639 is even that the Hawks have forget the new pieces that they had brought in. 763 00:50:04.119 --> 00:50:08.639 Have they incrementally gotten better playing through or with Trey Young as their guard? 764 00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:15.599 And I'm not seeing it now collectively all of the pieces and the players 765 00:50:15.639 --> 00:50:17.960 and you know, whatever's working, it may look like it's right, but 766 00:50:19.079 --> 00:50:21.840 I don't think that it is right, you know what I'm saying. And 767 00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:24.639 I think there's gonna be that hard question is gonna lend itself to how much 768 00:50:24.679 --> 00:50:28.519 longer do you continue with that? Like, if you're Trey Young, you 769 00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:31.079 cannot go anywhere else. Right, if this is about the money, if 770 00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:35.920 this is about the perception the persona, you know what I'm saying, you 771 00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:38.559 really can't go anywhere else. But if you're the Atlanta Hawks, you can't 772 00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:44.360 hold with this. It's just it's not gonna be in your best interest to 773 00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:47.719 do so, because nothing has changed in the last three years that has warranted 774 00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:52.719 the idea that even if you bring somebody else in, if he is, 775 00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:55.880 if he is the main piece, he's what you're building around, what's being 776 00:50:55.880 --> 00:51:00.840 built around, is not going to hold up because he's not doing anything to 777 00:51:00.880 --> 00:51:04.320 hold it up. That to me, I think is the caveat to this. 778 00:51:04.679 --> 00:51:07.599 It's on Young to want to do this. I don't think he wants 779 00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:09.599 to do it. And if you're the Hawks, why do you continue to 780 00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:14.840 make these moves and transitions and these players that you're thinking will help him, 781 00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:19.239 he's not even helping them help him. That's tough. That's tough. So 782 00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:21.920 I think that's you know, from from if I'm understanding, you'd right, 783 00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:23.880 there's a little bit of an indictment on whether you're not you think Trejung even 784 00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:28.119 wants to be the guy or is he just kind of out here exactly stat 785 00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:30.400 chasing per se. But he's not necessarily interested in being the leader in the 786 00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:34.159 face of a franchise. You know, I don't know, and I'm sure 787 00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:37.440 to media members he would he would deny that vehement and say yes, I 788 00:51:37.719 --> 00:51:40.400 am that guy, and so forth and so forth. But some of it 789 00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:44.079 comes down to your actions and you know, your play and things of that 790 00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:46.000 nature. And there are some people out there and why I can see why 791 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:50.719 they'd make the argument that maybe some of his numbers are a little bit inflated 792 00:51:50.719 --> 00:51:52.920 just because he's just so well dominant all the time. I really thought some 793 00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:55.760 things might have changed with the John Day being there this year, and it 794 00:51:55.800 --> 00:51:59.559 didn't really, at least not in the way that I thought in terms of 795 00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:01.800 how ball dominant trade was. Um. There were still a little bit more 796 00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:05.880 your turn, my turn situation going on there as well. Um, But 797 00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:07.840 at the end of the day, I think Atlanta is a is a solid 798 00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:13.480 roster that that has has the opportunity to to to maybe move off some more 799 00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:15.840 pieces. Um. I think they resigned bog Bogdanovich and then in the middle 800 00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:19.880 of the year as well too, so he's there for thinking another two years 801 00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:24.719 UM, and his tenure there has obviously been tenuous because of all the injuries 802 00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:28.480 as well. But what do they do with the congou and can they get 803 00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:30.519 him out there and can they get him play because it doesn't really mix with 804 00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:36.039 the mix of Collins and Capella with the congo goes. He's not strategy and 805 00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:38.519 he's obviously undersized at that four or five position as well too. So it's 806 00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:43.480 it's not it's not amazing, but it's not It's also not the end of 807 00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:45.320 the world. UM. I think I like the addition of cdic Bay and 808 00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:49.280 then having him under team control here UM, and then you can decide what 809 00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:51.519 do they want to re up with him. If you wanted to move off 810 00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:53.239 you know, a hunter, you could potentially do that and move him hunters 811 00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:57.079 that are pretty team frontly dealt like I think, you know, roughly twenty 812 00:52:57.079 --> 00:53:00.719 million dollars a year for the next few few seasons. UM. There's there's 813 00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:02.280 a lot of different directions they can go, but the one thing is for 814 00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:06.239 sure they need to figure out a way to show up their defense and then 815 00:53:06.280 --> 00:53:09.039 figure out what they're doing I think in that front court with the cappella Collins 816 00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:14.000 in a congo situation. Yeah, look, I'm all of those are great 817 00:53:14.039 --> 00:53:23.960 points. Let me ask you this question, do you think that do you 818 00:53:24.039 --> 00:53:38.400 think that Landry Fields is going to make significant moves this off season at all? 819 00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:44.199 Or do you think the biggest play that's been made for the Atlanta Hawks 820 00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:52.800 at least now and maybe going into next season was them getting getting Murray And 821 00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:58.159 then obviously you know they got Bay. But you know again, he doesn't 822 00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:00.360 move the needle for me just yet, because you need a bigger sample size 823 00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:06.320 with this team for us to see where like how how how versatile they can 824 00:54:06.360 --> 00:54:09.440 probably be for this team, um and and and whether or not that is 825 00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:14.360 the mentality of what a Quin Snyder wants to do. I'm just curious from 826 00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:16.800 your from your assessment, do you think that Fields is gonna kind of hold 827 00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:20.400 pat or do you think he's going to be as aggressive, say like as 828 00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:22.519 a James Jones, Like you know what I'm saying, Like, do you 829 00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:29.840 think he has that that that I for that, I think I think all 830 00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:32.559 options on the table. What I suspect happens is that this team remains largely 831 00:54:32.599 --> 00:54:36.920 the same, you know. I think my last point really is it's it's 832 00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:39.719 it's again, it's Collins and Capella conversations. Both of those guys have been 833 00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:44.840 talked about in trade rumors for literally since they both got there. It seems, 834 00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:47.000 Um and because of the good will of that conference finals run, they've 835 00:54:47.039 --> 00:54:50.920 just kind of brought everything back and kind of kept things that it's called roster 836 00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:53.679 wise for the exception of moving on from Kevin Herder last season. So to 837 00:54:53.719 --> 00:54:58.519 me, they'll they'll kick the tires. We'll hear all of those guys names 838 00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:01.400 mentioned in trade rumors and conversations, But I don't know what the true market 839 00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:05.159 value is, and I think there are very hard guys to determine what the 840 00:55:05.239 --> 00:55:07.239 value is. I think it's it's it's not it's not for lack of effort, 841 00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:09.559 but it's just not something that you can just say, yes, that 842 00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:13.760 that makes sense. Um. Defensively, they need to get better, but 843 00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:16.119 Capella is supposed to be a rim protector and a good rebounder, So do 844 00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:19.880 you trade off of them, and then then you're now you're undersize if you're 845 00:55:19.880 --> 00:55:22.320 trying to move a Congo and Collins into that five position. And then if 846 00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:24.440 you move Collins, Like, well, what are the pieces that you get 847 00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:28.639 back to you put a hunter at the four now and then try to get 848 00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:30.519 you know, another kind of three and D type three out there? Can 849 00:55:30.559 --> 00:55:35.159 that be City Bay? Do you just need the draft equity? To me, 850 00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:37.320 I said, the Hawks are kind of been in a middling situation, 851 00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:40.119 but I know Field is going to do as best. I just don't know 852 00:55:40.239 --> 00:55:45.360 that there will be a lot of things that um make the roster that much 853 00:55:45.400 --> 00:55:49.079 better this this upcoming season, because I think they're kind of in the middle, 854 00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:52.039 I think in terms of the evaluation of all of their talent, and 855 00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:55.440 I think that evaluation and that middling conversation is something that's that permits throughout the 856 00:55:55.480 --> 00:55:58.800 rest of the league as well too, Like what is Capello? What is 857 00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:00.239 Collins? What would you pay for those guys? You know, I don't 858 00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:04.119 even know what what package I'd put together, and so then I'd probably just 859 00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:06.960 stay away from it altogether if I was another team, all right, I 860 00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:08.639 mean, there's gonna be a lot of outlining questions. I think at the 861 00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:16.599 end show. My assessment is I will I will be comfortable making a prediction 862 00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:22.000 that they will be another They will be a five hundred team, maybe maybe 863 00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:27.480 a couple of games over five hundred come next year. That's just me. 864 00:56:27.559 --> 00:56:30.960 I mean, that's fair, I think with Snyder in terms of, you 865 00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:34.800 know, what it's coaching acumen is and even taking a look at the rest 866 00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:38.079 of the Eastern Conference as currently constructed as we record today because obviously free agency 867 00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:40.159 and I think that's going to change. I'll change a lot of change a 868 00:56:40.199 --> 00:56:44.719 lot of the narrative here. But yeah, the Hawks could be same battime, 869 00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:47.320 same bat channel, very very much in this same conversation next year, 870 00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:51.719 right around five hundred, right around the playing game, you know, and 871 00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:54.639 being a plucky first round out, and then they would probably say, all 872 00:56:54.719 --> 00:56:58.559 right, we really need to evaluate it from now. But I think when 873 00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:00.719 you get a coach like Snyder in it probably put some pause on all right, 874 00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:04.480 how much are we going to blow up this roster because he came here 875 00:57:04.679 --> 00:57:07.559 probably thinking like, hey, I could do something with what you currently have, 876 00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:09.599 as opposed to like I need you to change everything to fit my needs. 877 00:57:12.280 --> 00:57:16.079 Well, I don't know about putting more dirt on the Atlanta Hawks and 878 00:57:16.280 --> 00:57:22.119 necessary, but this offseason I think is going to be a very interesting one 879 00:57:22.119 --> 00:57:24.639 at that because I think it's going to come down to what the players are 880 00:57:24.639 --> 00:57:30.039 going to show us come the beginning a tip off. You know what version 881 00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:32.000 of the Atlanta Hawks that Quinn Snyder is going to have to work with. 882 00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:36.840 Well, these guys take this off season to really focus in hone in and 883 00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:39.639 find another level for them to step up, because I've probably quite frankly, 884 00:57:39.679 --> 00:57:44.880 look at this roster and I see them again as at best five hundred basketball 885 00:57:44.920 --> 00:57:49.679 team, and that to me is just a complete downtick from what we were 886 00:57:49.719 --> 00:57:52.760 thinking was the upside from them three years removed from them getting to the Eastern 887 00:57:52.840 --> 00:57:58.960 Conference finals. So it'll be interesting to see what fields with Snyder and the 888 00:57:59.079 --> 00:58:02.440 decision that Young makes in this offseason as well too. Um, maybe he 889 00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:08.000 needs to pass it over to Dante Murray. Right, Awesome shows getting kicked 890 00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:10.119 out of a playoff game, So I know, if he's a leader that 891 00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:13.480 you want to eat, well, I'm just saying, I'm just but I'm 892 00:58:13.480 --> 00:58:15.840 just saying, you know, what do you do? Where do you go? 893 00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:22.159 Right? Clint go? Clint? Okay, awesome show this week, 894 00:58:22.239 --> 00:58:24.800 Sean Man, great stuff. Man. Uh you know, hey man, 895 00:58:24.840 --> 00:58:28.679 we were putting that overtime clock man, we got so many, so many 896 00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:30.480 more teams we gotta put on a slab and stuff. So I'm surprised we're 897 00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:34.320 able to fit three in this week, yeah man. Which you try to 898 00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:37.079 be succinct and efficiently, you know, with our conversation and our words. 899 00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:39.039 So let us know what you think about the Bucks, the calves of Hawks, 900 00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:42.760 and what the the future is for all three of these teams. Um 901 00:58:42.880 --> 00:58:45.800 So a lot of great conversation. Three teams that obviously made the playoffs and 902 00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:47.440 hope to be in the playoff conversation for a very very long time, and 903 00:58:47.480 --> 00:58:52.360 obviously Milwaukee looking trying to be in the contender conversation, but big, big, 904 00:58:52.400 --> 00:58:54.800 big summers for them specifically. Absolutely, Once again, we'd like to 905 00:58:54.840 --> 00:58:59.239 thank you and yours for hopping on board with us this week for the baseline. 906 00:58:59.639 --> 00:59:01.400 Kyle the Warrens, y'all. We appreciate you guys, you know we 907 00:59:01.519 --> 00:59:04.760 do. We'll catch up with you next time.