This is the baseline discussing the hot button topics of the NBA. Welcome everybody
here, tune to the baseline Callie one shall discussing the hot button topics of
the NBA. Man on, man, it's sweet when the NBA Playoffs is
in full tilt with nothing but surprises, the lore and what more can be
said? Man, it just amps up the excitement for us to continue to
do our thing with these autopsy reports. And we're going to continue to keep
the lasing them bodies, boy, putting them in, putting them on the
slab. And I don't know, and maybe after this conversation with my right
hand man Shaw, you know, we might have to actually start considering a
new methodology of examining these bodies. Might have to incinerate them, put spread
ashes out in the ocean for some of these teams, man, with the
way things have been going with their with their plight of how things have ended
for their season. But that's exactly the reason why we bring up these topics
of conversation. So I'm going roll out the red carpet to my man's Www
show Sports that Net, Big Hunap and see my man, mister Warrenshaw,
ripping out of Fort Laida of Florida. What's good, mister Shaw. I
know that when the bodies you know, come into droves we got, we're
gonna have to probably put in a little bit of overtime with these autopsy reports.
Man. Brother, there was like an extinction level event this last week
with all these first round teams getting excommunicated from the playoffs, and you know,
people lining up to get on this autopsy slab, one team who definitely
did not think they'd be here this early, but yet here we are.
So we got a bottom up, zip them up as we do here on
the baseline, my guy, absolutely, man. So this week, man,
the coveted autopsy reports is in front and center for the show this week,
and we're going to continue to keep those things moving along. You know,
three teams, really that one of them, especially that we're actually going
to be first up on the slab. We're not even gonna waste any time
with those guys because it's actually surprising that they actually are at this particular point.
But I think it warrants a conversation. So this week on the report,
Sean and I will be focusing our attention on the Milwaukee Bucks we'll also
be talking about the Cleveland Cavaliers in the Atlanta Hawks, both teams exiting out
of the first rounds, but very very different perspectives that have to be given
on what has taken place for their season and whether or not the outlook is
in a positive note, on a negative note, or something of a level
of uncertainty. So we'll dig into all these three teams in this week's edition
of the Autopsy Report. As always, we appreciate you and yours for hopping
on board with us this week. Be sure to get them a man Shaw
Astrow Sports NBA, get at me a game face Lee. The show's Twitter
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rolling out them Autopsy Report. So please if you missed out on a team,
which I know you don't want to hear be talked about, but you
definitely want to find out whether or not things are going to be good or
bad moving forward, definitely check out our previous episodes of the Autopsy Reports.
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always appreciate you and thank you for your support. All right, let's not
waste any time, Sean I throwing on them jackets. You know how we
do. You know how we roll. Let's start examining them bodies. Autopsy
report here on the breakdown. Time to break it. They're dead, My
team, my they knew we were coming, man, they knew we were
coming. Time down for the breakdown, Callie warrened Shaw based on NBA podcast
and this is our coveted autopsy report in the first team that we are very
much amplified to put on the slab. Surprisingly putting on the slab will be
the Milwaukee Bucks, a team that had the best overall record in the NBA
almost getting to the sixty win threshold, which we thought was almost impossible given
the level of competition not only just in the Eastern Conference but in the NBA
altogether, and yet they were. They were really I don't want to say
the upset darlings, but we almost kind of saw this coming because the thing
that we emphasized the most Shaw it's all about the matchups. And I think
the thing that really surprises me more than anything, I want to get this
part of it out of the way here is when we're talking about the Milwaukee
Bucks taking on the Miami Heat. I for the life of me, can't
understand why the media, the sports media, specifically primetime media, never emphasize
how much of a rivalry there is between the Bucks and the Heat. I
mean, if people are not been paying attention, the Heat and the Bucks
have been going at it the last four years, where a lot has been
on the line the Milwaukee the Miami Heat has been prevented of finding themselves getting
deep in the playoffs due to the Milwaukee Bucks. Thelwaukee Bucks and opportunities to
probably get a title earlier than a few years ago due to from the COVID
situation, we're knocked out by the Miami Heat, and yet we just kind
of like making this seem like the Nicks and the Heat are a better rivalry
than what we've been seeing between the Bucks and the Heat. And the Heat
are the ones that have proverbly knocked off the number one see the team in
the NBA, and we're not talking about that. That is crazy to me.
Yeah, well, I mean they've done it twice, right, So
Bubble season, I think you know, Milwaukee was one and they ended up
the Heat were four five whatever it was. In that second round, they
dispatched Milwaukee I think in five games. You know. The very next year,
Milwaukee comes back and was like, yeah, you know, revenge tour
like a mug, sweeps Miami in four games. Obviously, don't they didn't
play last year, but now this year again they meet up again five game
series. So it never goes the way that you think it's going to,
especially for the amount of everything that's on the line for these teams when they
do meet and kind of clash together. But Miami has come out on top,
you know, two out of the last three meetings in a very very
and somewhat very surprising fashion. And this year specifically, to me, is
more surprising than even that Bubble year. And while we can get into the
nuances of you know, Jani's being earned hurt and injured, the Heat were
also hurt. You know, they didn't have Tyler Hero, you know,
and they will not have Tyler Hero from the remainder of the playoffs and Victor
Oladipo. And it's just really really surprising to see the Bucks go out in
this way to a team that they are better talent, they have more talented,
They just are more talented, but they didn't have the records at heart
that was needed to get past this Miami team who definitely smelled blood after games
won and then even after and blown in game two, the way the Bucks
let them come back into that stuff in Game four was really really indicative of
how the series we're going to go and end. Yeah, So I know
a lot of people have been fixated on the situation. The postgame interview with
Jannis and what he had spoken to you had brought up the word heart and
I think Shaw it's great because I think it ties the two things in together.
While I applaud Jannis for his perspective that's given, which I think really
should be indicative of how we all should embrace and love and how vital sports
should be. It should not be something that is a representation of your failures
and successes as an individual in the things that you look to do and to
achieve. I think it should empower you more and build a better coalesced community,
you know, outside of the noise of the things that we are really
dealing with on our day to days. Right, the question really should be
looked at did the Bucks as a team not meet the expatitions? And when
you're the number one seeded team in your conference and you get knocked out by
the A seeded team who had to win to play in right to get knocked
out, I don't think you can give any explanation, any perspective that doesn't
look at it as face value. And again, we can talk about other
semantics about this stuff regarding that, but to me, you spoke about heart
and I will gladly up the anti on this Shaw. Heart wasn't just it,
it's also your mental approach. And we've seen this time and time again
with the Milwaukee Bucks this up and down trend. They can look like the
most dominant team at times and at times they look like a team that could
be got at any given time. And it was front and center in a
situation where, yeah, maybe the three one situation put their backs up against
the wall made it a lot harder for them than necessary. But in that
game, that Game five, they clearly had the advantage for about what forty
six minutes of the game, and yet they still could not seal the deal,
which is indicative of a team that was just not mentally in the right
space about the desperation required for them to make sure that they were going to
extend a season and not get knocked out by the Miami Heat. Yeah,
I mean, I want to gotta give Miami a lot of credit first and
foremost, so I definitely wanted that. But I think your point is so
well made because in the last two games, the Bucks blew you know,
two double digit fourth quarter leads, and in Game five, specifically, you
know, with Jimmy Butler out in the fourth to allow Miami to go one
on eleven to one run to start the quarter, out was exactly that.
It was inexcusable. The Bucks felt like they had this series in hand kind
of that at anyone, like they felt they could turn it on because of
how Miami got into the playoffs and because they ordered the mighty, the mighty
Milwaukee Bucks with all the depth and all the three point shooting and all the
defense and all of it failed them. So while a lot of people want
to lay this at the feet of Coach Bud, I think it was another
podcast saying out their coach Bud didn't go out their mistwelve three throw in Game
five like did Coach Bud didn't have Drew Holiday. Drew Holiday just getting lit
up by Jimmy Butler, like play after play after play he can throw something,
can I can throw something into your point because I want to put this
in here before we get into another because I know you'll you'll transition to something
else from this. But the other thing is well too, because I agree
Jannis missing the twelve free throws to me, that's low hanging fruit. You
want to you really want to understand how bad it was for the Milwaukee Bucks,
Maybe talk to Drew Holiday when in both games made critical turnovers as your
point guard, critical turnovers that led to the heat getting open transition baskets and
also diminishing the opportunity for the Milwaukee Bucks to finish the deal right Chris Middleton
silly fouls towards the final minutes in both of those games, not being able
to stay it sticks day in defend, which you can, And it's gonna
be another part of the conversation we're gonna have shaw about what are we talking
about now with Chris Middleton? Can this trifecta may be sustainable for the Bucks
moving forward if there's expectations about them, you know, going to try to
compete for another championship Because of what we've been seeing, it can clearly tell
Middleton is not still one hundred percent, and we don't know if you will
ever be one hundred percent. But I'm just putting the emphasis on the idea
that while everyone was fixated on Yanni's missing those twelve free throws, that should
not have been the only reason why we're talking about the Bucks mishandling this like.
They have made so many silly mistakes outside of not getting to the free
throw line and executing those free throws. They made it much harder than themselves.
Un necessary. Yeah, they took bad shots, true, holiday specifically,
so the turnovers, even the decision making with some of the shots they
got rushed, They got forced into things that they should have had more requisite,
you know, poise for a team that has won an NBA championship.
So to me, it was more of an indictment on the collective unit than
laying it at any one person's feet, whether actually Drew Janns coach, But
it was a elect of loss and it's and it's kind of sad to see
that a team like this could have turned it on the way they did and
battle a lot of injuries throughout the course of the regular season to gain the
number one seed regardless, and felt like they were playing the best basketball they
possibly could and lose in the first round in devastating fashion, not even six
or seven games, like two fourth quarter collapses. So at your point about
Middleton is very well made. He does have a player option all coming off
you know, obviously one of his worst years in recent history of the injuries
just never really let him get right. But he's old, forty million dollars
next year, you know, it's the last year of his deal. Does
he opt out? I mean, would he really opt out? And feel
like he can maybe get a longer term deal with Milwaukee or go somewhere else,
and he's not going to come at forty million dollars again, Like I
think that those days are gone, So he probably opts in and they probably
make one more run at this. The bigger question, maybe not the bigger,
but an equally big question is brook Lopez. And he's obviously one of
the big linch pinces of their defense, and he's old a pretty significant raise.
Yes, he's what thirty five, thirty four, thirty five years old,
um, but he's probably got at least two three more good years in
him now, and they have him at as the steepest of discounts, playing
him thirteen million dollars this past year. He's I mean, he's a good
guy. I don't know if he's gonna be like, oh yeah, oh
shucks, let me Bobby Port is this and I'll let you get me for
you know, twelve to fifteen million dollars. He's going to get a substantial
raise and can get that from elsewhere. So the Bucks, despite having to
fix a heart problem so to speak in terms of how they exited in this
playoff, have real issues in terms of how they're going to roster construct because
they have no picks because of the Drew Holiday trade. So it's all second
round stuff here for the next couple of couple of seasons, in addition to
trying to find what you're gonna do with Brook Lopez even Joe Ingles. So
they brought in you know, that was a one year situation. Jay Crowder,
you know all that he made. He even alluded to the fact that
he had no idea, He didn't had no I didn't know what role on
this team. Um So, so that's tough, right like, and there's
a there's not a lot of great pathways to roster construction. Yes, they
are a good team, and maybe they can get some veterans at a discount,
but there doesn't seem to be an influxive young talent unless you're land to
move off in Middleton or maybe some many other bigger pieces. So so let
me bring up two quick points, especially with the reason why I brought up
to Jay Crowder situation. Does it not does it really surprise you that we
didn't see more of Crowder playing on Jimmy Butler, Like more minutes expended on
Crowder defending Butler, after Butler has these explosive games due to the course of
this series, I don't know if it. I mean, if Budd didn't
have the confidence in Crowder to play, that's not what it was. I
think. No, I'm not questioning confidence, I'm questioning strategy. In other
words, if you're leaving Chris Middleton out there. The reason why the Milwaukee
Bucks have been a successful of basketball team over the last few years prior to
Middleton's injury was Middleton's propensity to step up to be that next guy for Yannis.
Right that wound up being the responsibility of Drew Holiday. But if you
asked Drew Holiday, he would rather be defending Jimmy Butler than worrying about having
to score thirty five. But if Middleton is not scoring and Middleton is not
defending, then what purpose does he serve on that basketball court when the one
person that the Miami Heat has is cooking you this whole series, and you
don't make an adjustment to say, okay, fine, if I got to
relign more on Drew to score to basketball next to Jannis, I gotta get
somebody to put a body to put some physicality on Butler, and it surprised
me that there wasn't a move by Budenholzer to put Crowder on Butler at least
during portions where the Bucks needed to stimy. You're not gonna stop him,
but at least put something on him to just at least create some kind of
fission in his ability to score at will. I'm just saying, like,
I'm just surprised that they stuck with this particular game plan that they had for
as long as they did and never tried to make some kind of an adjustment
from a defensive perspective to alleviate the concerns that you knew was going to rule
its ugly head at the end of games when they were playing the Heat.
I mean, I think if it's if you're Bud, and I agree with
you were saying in terms of the aspect of like, well, clearly what's
happening. It's not working. But Drew Holidays is an all world defender and
just got cooked. He just got Yeah, he got cooked. Absolutely,
you do have to make change different looks. But the Heat oftentime would run
pick and roll and get Chris Middleton to switch on to Butler, which also
was to Butler's favor. And an advantage. So I think the Crowder minutes
the only played forty one minutes in the series. They tried West Matthews on
and West Matthews I think only played in Game one and then in four and
five, so he saw a little bit of time on him as well.
I think a lot of people kept saying, well why not trap why not
put your honest on him at times as well too. Anyway, the Butler
strategy was was full hardly didn't work. And you know, now they're home,
obviously, I think now we just got to focus on, right,
well, how did they get better? Um? Is there a pathway to
that? And um, I think you know financial as alluded to, they're
they're strapped, but are they willing to pay and go and deep into the
luxury attacks? Probably? Um, And they're probably willing to at least go
one more year with this. I don't know if Bud's going to get let
go or anything like that too. I think it's a it's a popular and
easy narrative to kind of already done it. Nick Nurse so and I mean
and again we've talked obviously we talked about the raptors and Nick Nurses again,
I'm going to keep using utile as the phrase. I think he's he's gimmicky
and can't he you know, work is with finangle his way into the situation
there? I don't, I don't know. I'd rather see him maybe come
on as some sort of a top level assistant as opposed to replaced the bud
outright, and then if it doesn't work this year, then maybe he's your
guy. Um. I'd be surprised if Milwaukee makes any drastic changes, um,
you know, and I think it maybe there there's somewhat in the in
the uh, beholden to what Chris Middleton ultimately decides to do, because if
he decides to opt out of that forty million dollars, well then you know,
a lot can happen as a result of that potentially. But Mike,
I suspect that they run this back at least one more year, figure out
what they need to do with Lopez, and then we'll be seeing where they
land next year. And I think they'll be focused, but we're all going
to be waiting as we were years to the before they won the NBA Championships,
like prove it in the playoffs, and that's all Milwaukee has to do
right now, right in the playoffs. So next year, Shaw, I
think is going to be a very interesting year. To your point with regards
to the Milwaukee Bucks, I'll put it to like how you were basically putting
it, if if Middleton opts in, they're going to have to address the
supplemental parts of the surrounding parts for that team to accentuate what I don't know,
and we don't know with confidence that they're going to be able to give
you that they've already been given you for the last three years, right,
Like I don't want to say that the height of jew Holiday's powers is what
we're seeing, you know, and it is the same for Chris Middleton.
But I will say that this team has taken a step back athletically, right.
They're not as athletic, but they have savvy players and maybe that was
where they were positioning themselves to get quality shooters here. You know, with
them having Grayson Allen, you would have thought that that would like that to
me is like a Devin Chans a wash, right, So this team,
to me, needs to get better athletically. They need guys that I think
can create some discomfort to some of the premier wing players that they're going to
be dealing with for the next three to five years. But the bigger point
to this Shaw and I think it is going to be the outlying question.
Here's where my eulogy comes in. Does loyalty becomes a liability? Because when
you listen to how Janis speaks, if it's up to him, he's keeping
this same group of guys. But if it's about winning a championship, is
that the priority that should be dictating what you want to see for this team
going into next year because you may have to make the hard decision like teams
like the Golden State Warriors had to and teams like the Los Angeles Lakers have
had to. This is about the business of winning a championship, and it
may mean one or two of these guys can't be on the roster because they're
not gonna help you be positioned to win moving forward. Yeah, well,
I think your point is very well made. I don't necessarily know about the
athleticism part, but they are also very They're a little bit older, you
know, they got to be one of those I think they wanted a lot
from bou Shamp, Right, bou Shamp and look how like how little he
was basically used in this series. You know what I'm saying. Now,
Again, we could be sitting there questioning Bo knows his decisions on this,
but you could also be making a valid pointed through the course of the year,
was there anything that these guys that were on the roster did to significantly
elevate their their necessity for what the Bucks needed to do to make this run
for a championship. And you can look at it across the other way too,
with the Golden State Warriors. We talked highly about how they have a
very good athletic group of guys that stepped up in some way, shape or
form to help them in the championship last year. How much of there being
used in this series right now against the Sacramento Kings, Right. So,
that's what I'm saying, Like, there's gonna be a decision made and a
lot of it is going to be predicated on what the headhuho, which we're
saying is Janna, is based on how he sees the culture of this team
and what's important to him about this team's success. And you you heard him
say it on the post conference. I'm just saying to me. I think
it's going to permeate on the decision making process about what this team is going
to look like next year and what changes they're going to have to make in
order to shore up what they clearly saw God exposed to them in this first
round series. Now, I mean, but again, well, I don't
want to not to go back and forth. I think they have more of
a of a heart issue than they do a roster issue, and they were
they have some roster decisions that need to be made and some some some really
intentional scouting needs to happen. I think for them to maybe get some two
way guys and even some second round picks that can maybe make those roster to
maybe address some of the things that you're talking about. But they are,
by by my estimate, you know, one of the older teams in the
league here now especially, but most of your guys you know at least twenty
eight and up um Janice is what twenty eight, twenty nine, but middletonso
thirty plus b Glopez thirty five. I mean, it's gonna be tough,
but Milwaukee is one of the better teams in the league, definitely on paper.
But they have some things they got to figure out intentionally and internally.
I think it comes to their mindset that's going to have to make them better
if they actually want to win another NBA championship. I'm telling you, man,
you talk about maybe we're gonna have to step up that plan about getting
that getting that incinerator going. Man, that's just guys. I don't want
to be spreading out any ashes on the Milwaukee Bucks, but I gotta tell
you, man, with the way that the Eastern Conference is shaped up,
Shaw, this window of opportunity for them to go back there again and maybe
get that chip, it's obviously gonna get a lot harder come next year.
So the decision will not will not come easier. Your tune to the baseline,
Klie Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA coming up. Sean
and I will focus our attention on another team in that very gauntlet like Central
Division, the Cleveland Cavaliers. High expectations for them, they probably should be
advancing, but they got house. Did Does that mean that they're not who
we thought they were? We'll give you our Denny Green take on this here
on the baseline. We are back Callie Warrenshaw baseline NBA podcasts are coveted autopsy
reports, and next on the slab, we're putting the Cleveland Cavaliers. We're
putting them on the examination examiner's table. Shaw. So here's here's a team
that you know, we said from the outset, the way that this team
looks and is constructed, they're gonna make some noise. And you can make
the argument Shaw, they really did make some noise. They came out as
a four seeded team in the Eastern Conference. The big acquisition of Donovan Mitchell
clearly was an up grade for our expectations for this team. I thought it
was lofty to expect them to probably be better than the Boston Celtics or the
Milwaukee Bucks. But what we saw from this is a team that is on
the come up. Then they run into I don't want to call it a
buzz saw, but they obviously ran into something playing against the New York Knicks,
and now all of a sudden people are questioning the makeup of this team.
All of a sudden, this is a team that won fifty one games.
Shaw, What was the last team the last time the Cleveland Cavaliers won
fifty one games? Okay, so, yeah, say, how many iterations
of Lebron right, like Lebron Lebron two point er? Like it's if not
for Lebron, this team, this organization doesn't sniff fifty something games last year.
However, prior to making the move of getting Donovan Mitchell, this team
was showing signs of being a promising basketball team, and they made decisions,
good decisions that I think really made this team collectively together look like a team
that has a future, so not only being successful this year, but also
sustainable success for the next few seasons. But then when you run into a
situation like playing against a team like the New York Knicks, where you can
make the argument that this roster shaw it looks like a better team than what
the New York Knicks has at you know, out there on a night in
night out basis, you didn't start to wonder, Okay, where the chinks
in the armor? And and is this part of their the process of their
growth and maturation to be an elite team in their respective conference. Yeah,
well, I mean it's not all lost, right, The Knicks were just
more physical than they were and Fibbs, I think in some ways, um,
you know, did a nice job, really great job coaching coaching this
next basketball team. Cleveland ran into the issue of not having enough shooting um
some guys, the moment being a little bit too big for them. I
remember speaking on Mad Boosti's podcast with our guy Jabari a couple of months ago,
and they're like, well, do you think the Calves are going to
make a deep run? I said, I think the best that he can
go is a second round. And they said, what do you need?
What do they need? It is like they need shooting. They need shooting
at especially at that three, at that three position, that wing position.
That seemed to be extremely true. You know, they shot thirty two percent.
I think in the series, Donovan Mitchell didn't look rate, you know,
in that and the Knicks just were more physical and figured out a way
to and just beat them up on their boards, especially which makes no sense
when you have Mobile and Jared Allen. Like I just for the life of
me, I don't understand how much Robinson dominated them in the way that they
did. But to me, Cleveland was probably a year away from being really
competitive in the Eastern Conference. I did at least expect this series to go
six or seven games and I actually thought the Cavs had enough talent wise to
get to the second round. I wouldn't have picked them in a second round
past that. But the way to lose this way, you know, to
this NIXT team that is clearly better than maybe a lot of us even gave
them credit for um is somewhat of an indictment on Cleveland, but also more
or less saying that they just weren't ready. And the questions about Donovan Mitchell
and he is either guy and all that stuff was a gonna start to come
up again, and those are right. But listen, this cav team is
slightly ahead of schedule, but they have some pieces they need to fix.
They need some shooting on this roster. Don't know what they're gonna do with
Karaster Verton, if they're going to try to bring him back, But they
have one major, major monumental piece house that can ultimately reach the next level
for them, and that's m Immobili. He's still has a scratch the surface,
and he had a terrible playoffs. It's terrible, But if he can
figure out and become the guy that we all think he can be, there's
a lot more upside on this Cavs team than probably meets the eye. Yeah,
So I find it interesting Shaw that what you had mentioned earlier before about
physicality is the one thing that I think and maybe we never use that terminology
or that phrase more so over the course of what our evaluation was regarding this
Cavs team, because I agree with you, I think that this team has
a lot of speed, has a lot of athleticism, has a lot of
savvy, right. I find them to be a team that you can watch
play and have fun watching them play. But at the same time, when
you're playing in the playoffs, there comes a time when all of that doesn't
mean squat like you actually have to body up guys, right, you got
you gotta get into trenches. And they played scared basketball. They did not
play as a loose as I think the regular season afforded them the space and
opportunity for them to be able to do these kind of things. And I
don't care if it's you know you're questioning is a level of experimentation if you
want to put it on Bickerstaff, whatever, I'm just saying that the guys
collectively, to me, did not understand the magnitude because remember last year,
they were in the play in, but they didn't get in, right.
So this move of getting Donovan Mitchell, while Donovan Mitchell is a is a
guy that you would love to see and you know, he's great as far
as you know. You put him in high level situations and he's a great
scorer, that doesn't mean that like he's the guy that you're gonna say,
hey, I want you guarding my you know, the opposing team's best dude,
right, because now you're trying to protect him, when in essence,
he has to be that guy. I think a lot of it is just
in the things that you do and not if the things that you say or
whatever your statistics reflect or show you you know what I'm saying. So if
if Donovan is not scoring as many points as Jalen Brunson, if Donovan is
not grabbing as many rebounds, you know, as not I say Richard Robinson,
but let us just say Julius Randall if he was healthy, right,
if he's not, you know, imposing his will on guys in different ways
and shapes the other guys don't know how to take suit and don't know how
to do that, you know, and it's just interesting to me on how
that played itself out, because remember the Knicks were in the playoffs a couple
of seasons ago, right, and they got the taste of what that was
like. Evan Mobley lived Julius Randall's best life in this season because he didn't
show up for this this first round of the playoffs, and while not harping
on the playoffs, this was indicative of the type of season that Mobley had.
We speak about him in high regard for a certain stint, and then
he falls off the face of the earth, like falls off the map,
the same thing we did with Jared Allen. And then we also can say
that about Darius Garland. You know, there was a you know, Darius
Garland is an All Star, but everyone was sitting here saying, man,
you know this guy, he's exactly when that choice was made about whether you're
keeping him or Sexton. This is why we kept Darius Garland. None of
that really came to form the back half of the latter half of this the
regular season going into the playoffs. He didn't have a lot of momentum swinging
his way. So a lot of this stuff is learning Curbshaw. But I
cautioned this in saying that they have to have a different mentality going into next
year about showing that versatility and evolving with that versatility when they're competing against these
different teams, teams that may not shoot the ball as well as they do,
but they can physically match up with them with their shots not going you
know, having guys get to the basket. You know what I'm saying at
Will like, they have to be more free with the way that they play.
They have to take that stigma off their back. It's going to be
interesting to see if whether that growth take place come next year, if it's
going to be another year after that before we actually start seeing that from this
Cavalier's team. Yeah. I mean, well, it's interesting because I think
their defense was top rated in the regular season, and we didn't see that
same level of aggression. They weren't bad defensively, they were just worst offensively.
They didn't have they didn't match up to the offensive progress that they had,
you know as a ninth grade team you know, in the NBA this
past season. Um, that to me, I think is the bigger,
bigger question and how can they get better offensively? Um? And some of
it will revolve around Mobili. Some other people I've listened that and talked to
talked about, well, maybe they need to move Alan off and try to
figure out a way to put Mobile at the five full time. But then
there's a conversation it's like, well is he physical? Is he ready enough?
Can he feel loud enough to play the five full times? Or to
better suited at the four. I think the bigger question is what they do
with Isaaca Corom and how do they address again the wing position and even again
Carol Slavert, those are those are two guys who I don't know what their
future is in Cleveland. And the money that the Calves are having committed obviously,
because when you have a guy like Donovan Mitchell and Dearis Garland and then
eventually you're gonna to pay up Formobile as well, you're kind of caps trapped
yet again, you know, And that's and that's kind of like the crux
of your team. So what are the supplemental parts and auxiliary parts that compliment
those three main guys um and I don't know exactly who what those pieces look
like right now, but Kobe Altman has done a pretty good job, I
think, especially in years recent more recent years of building the team to where
it is. But this is a precarious situation I think for the Calves are
like they're they're they're one step away from kind of just taking another taking another
step, I really, but if they go wrong, like they could just
kind of be in the middle, you know, and be a four or
five seat for a very very long time, I think with this roster.
And again it really depends on how how well and how fast Mobile is going
to grow. But they do need to make some tweaks on the on the
on the edges, as they say, to kind of get some more shooting
and some complimental help to to Mitchell Garland and Mobile. So just so then
I'm clear. And what you were talking about before, you know, obviously
you're saying that they were just so bad offensively, right that no matter what
they did from a defensive perspective, And it's and and and I'm not questioning
it. I'm just wanting to make sure that I'm clear. What your perspective
is is that if they just had better offense, then this probably would have
told a different story. Worry about what the outcome of this first round would
have been against the new York Knicks. Yeah, they have verged ninety four
points per game. Right, No, no, no, And I'm and
and I'm there with you. I think to me, Shaw though that And
this is what we've often talked about. If you're not a great offensive team,
if this is what's been you know, you've been carrying with through the
rest of the year, that only amplifies how much better you have to be
defensively, especially going into the playoffs. Right now, you're playing against a
team that you know, I mean, they were good, they were,
Listen, they were They're decent offensively enough right to have four or less wins
to getting into that playoff, right to be the fifth seed. But they
do had they did have two established star players, right, not better than
Jana's, not better than Brown or Tatum, the two established star players.
One of those star players got off right, like didn't matter who they were,
who they put on him. Jalen Brunson went off. And what I'm
saying is is to a player, if you're Donovan Mitchell or Darius Garland or
Careless carros Lavert or whoever, you cannot let that guy beat you. It's
like just what we talked about with the Milwaukee Bucks. Like, if you're
Yannis and you see that Holiday ain't got it tonight, Middleton, ain't got
it tonight. I understand that you are the man, You're the most dominant,
but you can't let that guy get you tonight. You gotta step up
and take that. Dude. You gotta do it. You have to show
those guys. And so that's what I'm saying. If you brought Donovan Mitchell
in here, I get why you brought him in here because of what he
can give you offensively, But even on that, if you're the number one
team defensively and the one person that's out there Ed is cooking you, it's
still cooking you. You're Donovan Mitchell, I'm like, no, I got
this, dude, I gotta get it has to happen. If nothing,
You're saying something to the rest of these guys that like, this is where
you got to lock in. You know what I'm saying. You got to
minimize their opportunities to score, to maximize our opportunities to win. And that's
all that I'm saying. Like that to me is what I was more on
the emphasis of when I talk about the defensive is a mentality or the approach
of how you're attacking the situation against the opposing team due the course of the
series and that type of transition. I'll give you a great example, I
think you know even to what you're talking about. Look at Devin Booker in
the first round versus Clippers. Devin Booker is like a high volume offensive guy,
but took on the challenge to be great defensively in that series. And
I think a Donovan Mitchell can take that on because it is a little bit
of a misnomal when you look at Cleveland saying yeah, they're the number one
rated defense, it's primarily based off of mobile and Jared Allen protecting the room
for the most part, Garland and Donovan Mitchell or not. You know these
defensive stop gaps if you will, But if they can take on the mentality,
especially when it comes to playoff time, like a Devin bo has was
what was on the first round, that can go a long way in your
team's success, especially against the team like you know the Knicks and Gentlen Brunson
were. You know, that guy's really captaining and mastering their offense and everything
they do on the other side of the basketball, or even to that point,
Shaw, when when your back court is out rebounding your front court,
that's saying something right like, if you're Mobili and you're and you're Allen,
you should take it personally right that the Knicks guards are out rebounding you,
you know what I'm saying, Or your own teammates are out rebounding you.
And so what I'm saying is it's like, sometimes it takes like that star
player to do what these guys may not be recognizing they're not if not doing
well, they're not doing it at all, you know what I'm saying,
in order to spark something to turn things around for them to see your point,
they're gonna have to make moves in this offseason to upgrade their offense.
But that doesn't mitigate what you already have as your core reflective defensively, and
if that is what got you to this point, they have to maintain that
and at the same time improve on what they're lacking. And those things can
be done. We've seen that with the Milwaukee Bucks in their transitional years so
far, winning one championship, but more importantly sustainable success. Look at the
Miami Heat, right, they continually evolve with the role players. Jimmy Butler
still Jimmy Butler, but Jimmy Butler is a different Jimmy Butler when he gets
into the playoffs. And that speaks to those guys in the locker room because
now they see what type of switch has to be turned on within them,
Like they gotta find another level other than the level they just gave through the
regular season. And to me, that part of it, I think is
going to be key in the decision making process of the type of guys that
Altman should be thinking about if they're not planning to keep the same roster going
into next year. Of if the guys you're getting are gonna improve, fine,
but the guys that you already have have to take it to another level
if they even want to even make people believe into the level of success that
the Cavaliers are capable of having. Yeah, so, I mean that's looking
at it Immobile and Isaaca Carl specifically, Yeah, you have your Osman's of
the world, then do you bring back veteran Danny Green? I mean,
those are those are fringe guys who again they're gonna get spot minus not really
make a true or tremendous impact. But Cleveland, I think is heading in
the right direction, but they do have to be very careful about how they
stop next, says I'm alluded to earlier, because it could just be this,
you know, for years and years and years, which a lot of
teams might be happy and content with. But you know, I obviously that's
not the way to go where you're just kind of like this pretty good team
that can't get out of the first or second round. Some some of the
things are gonna have to happen here, and hopefully Altman and company are going
to be up to the task this offseason. Absolutely your tune to the baseline
Callie Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA are coveted autopsy reports.
Two teams down, one more left to go. We'll be talking about the
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Stick your neck out to win. Callie Warrenshaw Baseline NBA Podcast, Atlanta Hawks
next on the slab. Here on the Autopsy Report. We're back Callie Warnshaw,
Baseline NBA Podcast, and this is are coveted Autopsy Reports and the next
team that we've got up on the slab It's been a busy day today examining
and zooming, zooming and examining the Milwaukee Bucks and the Cleveland Cavalier has been
Next up, now we're gonna talk about the Atlanta Hawks. So this is
a team that broke even in the regular season. Shaw got outston in the
first round with the Boston Celtics, and I think, you know, I
listen, I'm not trying to toot my horn in this, but I think
I've said this over the last couple of seasons with the Atlanta Hawks. I
think people want to use the word overachieved. I don't think it's a question
of overachieved, but I do think it's a question of understanding the dynamic of
what this team had represented and what they gave you back when Nate McMillan was
the head coach and he came in and what you're basically seeing for the you
know, the makeup of this basketball team as again they get knocked out,
you know, the first round. I think the Cinderella season of them getting
to the Eastern Conference Finals, while it being somewhat of an admiration, I
think it was more about the elevation of Trey Young and the type of basketball
player that he is. But now we're at this cautionary tale of are you
getting what you paid for? So to speak, Like, is having Trey
Young and even if whoever you're gonna put next him in this case of Deontay
Murray, is that's what's best for what you're talking about in order to elevate
and win or be considered as championship basketball. We're talking about the Atlanta Hawks.
So let's start with something has nothing to do with the series, right.
I think that the athletic put out a poll of the most underrated player
in the NBA, and Trey Young's name came up. Knowing that overrated not
overrated. I was about to say, well, and who asked that question?
So I mean it's interesting because playoff Tray, if there is such a
thing, isn't terrible. He's there's I think there's a version of Trey Young
where you're like, yeah, he's he's built and ready for some of that,
some of that smoke and some of that movement. But the teams that
he's been on just again, they're they weren't meant to go on and ultimately
lose to better, to better and more well, constructed rosters. This this
team has just had so much this function and he is at the very center
of a lot of it. You know, I'm not getting along with certain
coaches and now they're bringing Quinn Snyder and everybody is on the Quinn Snyder train.
M He was thirteen and fifteen, you know, in his tenure at
in the close season. But it's hard, you know, to try to
make that, make that change and make those adjustments and institute all of your
stuff. Will they be better than next next year? I don't know,
you know, I don't know, but I think the narrative of Trey Young
is really interesting. And then you have is he meant to be there long
term? Um? I would be I would. I wouldn't necessarily be surprised,
but it would. It would come out a little bit of an eyebrow
raise to me if Trey Young's name is rumored and a lot of stuff this
this this summer. But some people seem to think that that could be the
potential case. Here He's old a crap ton of money, you know,
over the next four years, and I think, you know, with Atlanta
making the move to move him on and get Luca and all those that you
know that conversation is coming on or whatever the case may be. But I
don't know if Trey Young is a franchise guy. But I think there's it's
somewhere in the middle of him being a franchise guy and being overrated, and
I don't know. I guess I'll through the question back to you. Do
you think Trey Young is a franchise building piece? Can he be your number
one guy? Or does he need to be more of a number two?
He's not a franchise building piece, because but I would I would actually caution
that and saying what kind of franchise are you building? Shaw, because the
Atlanta Hawks or are somewhat u They're not what we consider in the tradition of
that, and I think a lot of that is driven the decision making process
that's been made over the last you know, a couple of years. They
had a window. They genuinely had a window. And I think now you
can actually make the argument that we answer what you asked me pretty much answered
the question and of itself. If Nate McMillan helped get you to an Eastern
Conference finals, I don't understand or see where what happened the following season.
Yes, some moves were made, I understand that, but you and of
itself, you know, Trey Young should essentially be the cornerstone reason that gets
everyone else on board in order to make this transition that this team is gonna
be here and is gonna be here to stay. You're gonna win that Southeast
Division. You're gonna be among one of the top three teams that never happened,
never came to fruition. And so obviously now you start losing pieces then,
and I don't only act to inspiration, but obviously in a commitment to
say we still want you to be our guy, we come and we get
you, Deontay Murray. And in that it obviously leads to certain things happening
off the court where there's clearly a clash between McMillan and Young. Now you've
got Quinn Snyder. And remember when we had this conversation about Quinn Snyder being
hired Shaw, everyone is looking at this perspective about Quinn Snyder coming in and
and and and you know, innovating this offense probably or you know, giving
this team obviously some a much needed spark sort of speak or another voice in
the locker room. Nah Man, this is a valuation time. You need
a credible head coach who's going to be able to properly say I can win
with him or I can win without him. And I think this is what's
going to happen. If we're going to talk about Trey Young being a cornerstone
player, he's got to learn how to win with Quinn Snyder, and I
don't know if that's gonna happen now. I think Deontay Murray is on board,
and I think Quinn might say I can win with Deonte, but I
think he's gonna be questioning in this offseason based off of what Trey Young does
when they come back around for this upcoming season and say are you all in
for this? Are you not? And again, the Atlanta Hawks are in
that space where if it's gonna be bad for both, right, it's gonna
be bad for the Hawks, but I think it's it's gonna be a temporary
sting. But for Trey Young, it's even worse because nowhere else wherever you
get traded to, other teams have committed themselves to some of the younger talent
that they have, and Young is still young, right, he's a young
person, but they're already committed to some of the guys that they already have.
Where are you gonna make the room to say that Trey Young's gonna come
in and he's like building block. You know, we're gonna rather shell out
supermax money for if he couldn't get the Atlanta Hawks to sustain a level of
success after getting to the Eastern Conference finals. So I don't know where where
he's if there's, like I said, if there's a real market for him,
or they're really going to try to move him. I think, you
know, with them bringing on the John in this off season, they were
kind of committing to this backcourt. I'll say nothing else. I wouldn't expect
any major moves in Atlanta, at least for the next year, specifically because
Quinn just got there. So you give Snyder a year to implement his stuff,
get his guys in, get a system in, improve on this defense,
which was twenty second, you know, in terms of defensive rating this
past year, but was one of the top rated offensive teams. So there
are pieces here that that can make it good. You know, I don't
even want to talk. It's like there's certain conversations and artist I don't even
want to talk about anymore. And whether or not John Collins it's going to
be in Atlanta anymore, I don't know. I don't I don't even care
well, I think, but my thing Shaw is you're saying they're they're gonna
probably run this back, and I'm hike, you're running backwards with this.
Collins and Young do not work. Actually Collins is getting worse. Then.
My standpoint is more of of of Snyder coming in and being the difference maker
to anything else that they've had before. I think I'd imagine that's how they're
seeing it right. Landry feels as the general manager there now is like,
hey, we gotta an established coach who's had a lot of success, you
know, especially in the Western Conference, you know with those Utah teams.
Maybe this is the guy who can make it work. But I just think
the conversation gets you know, tainted and old because will you or do it
or don't? I think with the John caused conversation, and then there's even
the Clint Capella conversation as well too, So I don't have a lot of
confidences that are going to break this team up. They have a lot of
guys committed at least past next year, and then I think, you know,
with Snyder having a full year to do his own system, then they
can make probably a better and reformed evaluation of how they need to go.
But that absolutely moved to move away from her to Hunters, a guy that
they want to invest in as well then have invested in. But what do
they do with speak Bay? Like? Those things are kind of the the
misnomers. But I think the core of this team is going to be pretty
much what we saw this year, right. But it does speak to the
question that you asked earlier Shaw, Is Trey Young a person that you can
build around? Right? And I'm just saying, look at the remaining p
is even that the Hawks have forget the new pieces that they had brought in.
Have they incrementally gotten better playing through or with Trey Young as their guard?
And I'm not seeing it now collectively all of the pieces and the players
and you know, whatever's working, it may look like it's right, but
I don't think that it is right, you know what I'm saying. And
I think there's gonna be that hard question is gonna lend itself to how much
longer do you continue with that? Like, if you're Trey Young, you
cannot go anywhere else. Right, if this is about the money, if
this is about the perception the persona, you know what I'm saying, you
really can't go anywhere else. But if you're the Atlanta Hawks, you can't
hold with this. It's just it's not gonna be in your best interest to
do so, because nothing has changed in the last three years that has warranted
the idea that even if you bring somebody else in, if he is,
if he is the main piece, he's what you're building around, what's being
built around, is not going to hold up because he's not doing anything to
hold it up. That to me, I think is the caveat to this.
It's on Young to want to do this. I don't think he wants
to do it. And if you're the Hawks, why do you continue to
make these moves and transitions and these players that you're thinking will help him,
he's not even helping them help him. That's tough. That's tough. So
I think that's you know, from from if I'm understanding, you'd right,
there's a little bit of an indictment on whether you're not you think Trejung even
wants to be the guy or is he just kind of out here exactly stat
chasing per se. But he's not necessarily interested in being the leader in the
face of a franchise. You know, I don't know, and I'm sure
to media members he would he would deny that vehement and say yes, I
am that guy, and so forth and so forth. But some of it
comes down to your actions and you know, your play and things of that
nature. And there are some people out there and why I can see why
they'd make the argument that maybe some of his numbers are a little bit inflated
just because he's just so well dominant all the time. I really thought some
things might have changed with the John Day being there this year, and it
didn't really, at least not in the way that I thought in terms of
how ball dominant trade was. Um. There were still a little bit more
your turn, my turn situation going on there as well. Um, But
at the end of the day, I think Atlanta is a is a solid
roster that that has has the opportunity to to to maybe move off some more
pieces. Um. I think they resigned bog Bogdanovich and then in the middle
of the year as well too, so he's there for thinking another two years
UM, and his tenure there has obviously been tenuous because of all the injuries
as well. But what do they do with the congou and can they get
him out there and can they get him play because it doesn't really mix with
the mix of Collins and Capella with the congo goes. He's not strategy and
he's obviously undersized at that four or five position as well too. So it's
it's not it's not amazing, but it's not It's also not the end of
the world. UM. I think I like the addition of cdic Bay and
then having him under team control here UM, and then you can decide what
do they want to re up with him. If you wanted to move off
you know, a hunter, you could potentially do that and move him hunters
that are pretty team frontly dealt like I think, you know, roughly twenty
million dollars a year for the next few few seasons. UM. There's there's
a lot of different directions they can go, but the one thing is for
sure they need to figure out a way to show up their defense and then
figure out what they're doing I think in that front court with the cappella Collins
in a congo situation. Yeah, look, I'm all of those are great
points. Let me ask you this question, do you think that do you
think that Landry Fields is going to make significant moves this off season at all?
Or do you think the biggest play that's been made for the Atlanta Hawks
at least now and maybe going into next season was them getting getting Murray And
then obviously you know they got Bay. But you know again, he doesn't
move the needle for me just yet, because you need a bigger sample size
with this team for us to see where like how how how versatile they can
probably be for this team, um and and and whether or not that is
the mentality of what a Quin Snyder wants to do. I'm just curious from
your from your assessment, do you think that Fields is gonna kind of hold
pat or do you think he's going to be as aggressive, say like as
a James Jones, Like you know what I'm saying, Like, do you
think he has that that that I for that, I think I think all
options on the table. What I suspect happens is that this team remains largely
the same, you know. I think my last point really is it's it's
it's again, it's Collins and Capella conversations. Both of those guys have been
talked about in trade rumors for literally since they both got there. It seems,
Um and because of the good will of that conference finals run, they've
just kind of brought everything back and kind of kept things that it's called roster
wise for the exception of moving on from Kevin Herder last season. So to
me, they'll they'll kick the tires. We'll hear all of those guys names
mentioned in trade rumors and conversations, But I don't know what the true market
value is, and I think there are very hard guys to determine what the
value is. I think it's it's it's not it's not for lack of effort,
but it's just not something that you can just say, yes, that
that makes sense. Um. Defensively, they need to get better, but
Capella is supposed to be a rim protector and a good rebounder, So do
you trade off of them, and then then you're now you're undersize if you're
trying to move a Congo and Collins into that five position. And then if
you move Collins, Like, well, what are the pieces that you get
back to you put a hunter at the four now and then try to get
you know, another kind of three and D type three out there? Can
that be City Bay? Do you just need the draft equity? To me,
I said, the Hawks are kind of been in a middling situation,
but I know Field is going to do as best. I just don't know
that there will be a lot of things that um make the roster that much
better this this upcoming season, because I think they're kind of in the middle,
I think in terms of the evaluation of all of their talent, and
I think that evaluation and that middling conversation is something that's that permits throughout the
rest of the league as well too, Like what is Capello? What is
Collins? What would you pay for those guys? You know, I don't
even know what what package I'd put together, and so then I'd probably just
stay away from it altogether if I was another team, all right, I
mean, there's gonna be a lot of outlining questions. I think at the
end show. My assessment is I will I will be comfortable making a prediction
that they will be another They will be a five hundred team, maybe maybe
a couple of games over five hundred come next year. That's just me.
I mean, that's fair, I think with Snyder in terms of, you
know, what it's coaching acumen is and even taking a look at the rest
of the Eastern Conference as currently constructed as we record today because obviously free agency
and I think that's going to change. I'll change a lot of change a
lot of the narrative here. But yeah, the Hawks could be same battime,
same bat channel, very very much in this same conversation next year,
right around five hundred, right around the playing game, you know, and
being a plucky first round out, and then they would probably say, all
right, we really need to evaluate it from now. But I think when
you get a coach like Snyder in it probably put some pause on all right,
how much are we going to blow up this roster because he came here
probably thinking like, hey, I could do something with what you currently have,
as opposed to like I need you to change everything to fit my needs.
Well, I don't know about putting more dirt on the Atlanta Hawks and
necessary, but this offseason I think is going to be a very interesting one
at that because I think it's going to come down to what the players are
going to show us come the beginning a tip off. You know what version
of the Atlanta Hawks that Quinn Snyder is going to have to work with.
Well, these guys take this off season to really focus in hone in and
find another level for them to step up, because I've probably quite frankly,
look at this roster and I see them again as at best five hundred basketball
team, and that to me is just a complete downtick from what we were
thinking was the upside from them three years removed from them getting to the Eastern
Conference finals. So it'll be interesting to see what fields with Snyder and the
decision that Young makes in this offseason as well too. Um, maybe he
needs to pass it over to Dante Murray. Right, Awesome shows getting kicked
out of a playoff game, So I know, if he's a leader that
you want to eat, well, I'm just saying, I'm just but I'm
just saying, you know, what do you do? Where do you go?
Right? Clint go? Clint? Okay, awesome show this week,
Sean Man, great stuff. Man. Uh you know, hey man,
we were putting that overtime clock man, we got so many, so many
more teams we gotta put on a slab and stuff. So I'm surprised we're
able to fit three in this week, yeah man. Which you try to
be succinct and efficiently, you know, with our conversation and our words.
So let us know what you think about the Bucks, the calves of Hawks,
and what the the future is for all three of these teams. Um
So a lot of great conversation. Three teams that obviously made the playoffs and
hope to be in the playoff conversation for a very very long time, and
obviously Milwaukee looking trying to be in the contender conversation, but big, big,
big summers for them specifically. Absolutely, Once again, we'd like to
thank you and yours for hopping on board with us this week for the baseline.
Kyle the Warrens, y'all. We appreciate you guys, you know we
do. We'll catch up with you next time.