WEBVTT

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Welcome back to the Pathway Chili.
I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and I'm

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Ashley. Let's dive right into this
week's case. October thirty first, two

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thousand and two. Minneapolis, Minnesota, twenty one year old university student Chris

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Jenkins celebrates Halloween by going to a
local bar with friends. After he is

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ejected from the establishment, Chris vanishes
without a trace, and his body is

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found in the Mississippi River four months
later. While police initially believe that Chris's

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death was an accidental drowning, his
family uncovers disturbing evidence to suggest that he

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was a victim of foul play.
The police chief eventually reclassifies the death as

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a homicide and issues an apology to
the Jenkins family, but the exact circumstances

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of how Chris died remain unknown.
After that, the path went chilly,

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So since we're nearing the end of
October, we thought now would be a

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good time to cover a tragic cold
case which happened to take place on Halloween.

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The unexplained two thousand and two death
of Chris Jenkins. Chris was a

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student from the University of Minnesota who
decided to go up partying on Halloween night,

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but after he was kicked out of
a downtown bar under very questionable circumstances,

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he never returned home and would remain
a missing person until he was found

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dead in the Mississippi River four months
later. At first, the authorities were

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contend to write off Chris's death as
a tragic alcohol fueled accident or even a

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suicide, but his family disagreed.
Of course, you'll find a number of

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stories out there just like this one
where a deceased individual's family with dispute law

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enforcements official ruling and maintain that their
loved one was a victim of foul play.

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However, this is one of those
rare cases where law enforcement eventually changed

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their mind and came to believe that
the victim's death might have really been a

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homicide. After all, Chris's case
is still officially unsolved, and there has

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been speculation that his death might be
connected to a phenomenon known as the smiley

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faced murder theory, but you'll hear
our thoughts on that a little later.

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As it is, this is a
very odd case in which it's incredibly difficult

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to come up with a concrete theory
which makes one hundred percent complete sense.

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Well, I'm really excited to hear
more about this case because, like you

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said, typically we hear where families
are advocating for police and medical examiners to

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take a look at their case and
say, this is not a suicide,

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this was not an accident, and
what ninety percent of the time they're shut

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down because a ruling is a ruling. There's a reason they came to that

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conclusion, and many people are not
willing to take a second look. But

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in this case, they actually changed
the ruling to homicide, which is a

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really big deal. I'm looking forward
to understanding how they came to the original

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accident slash suicide ruling. I'm assuming
possibly being under the influence and stumbling off

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of some hill cliff something, or
even jumping from a location would be their

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explanation. But and then how they
ended up changing that as well. So

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this smiley faced murder theory, I'm
already incredibly intrigued and I can't wait to

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hear more. Our story begins in
Minneapolis in two thousand and two. Our

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central figure is twenty one year old
Chris Jenkins, who was originally born in

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Eden, Prairie and is entering his
senior year as a student at the University

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of Minnesota. Chris is an honor
student with a three point seven grade point

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average at the university's Carlston School of
Management, and is also a goalie and

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co captain on the lacrosse team.
He's currently living with roommates in a rented

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house in the Dinkytown district and is
preparing to graduate in the spring. On

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Halloween Night, a cag party took
place at Chris's residence, and he dressed

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up in the costume of a Native
American. At around ten thirty pm,

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Chris, his girlfriend, Ashley Rice, and three of their friends left the

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party and went to the Lone Tree
Bar and Grill, located at five twenty

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eight Hennepin Avenue in downtown Minneapolis.
Ashley was an employee at the bar,

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though she was not scheduled to work
that night. Since Chris's costume did not

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have pockets, he asked Ashley to
hold his wallet, cell phone, and

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keys for him inside her purse.
Shortly after midnight on November first, Chris

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was ejected from the bar. Though
the actual circumstances of how this took place

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have always been up for debate.
The most commonly shared story is that a

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drink was accident spilled on Chris's pants, and when the security supervisor noticed this,

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he assumed that Chris had become so
intoxicated that he urinated himself. Chris

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was promptly removed from the bar,
and the bouncers standing by the front door

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reportedly received a radio communication to quote
not let the white guy dressed up as

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an Indian back inside end quote.
By this point, Chris had become separated

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from his friends in the bar and
could not inform them about what happened,

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and unfortunately, his wallet, keys, and cell phone were still inside Ashley's

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purse. Not only that, but
Chris's coat was left behind and he was

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not allowed to retrieve it, so
he was now trapped outside in cold twenty

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degree temperatures wearing nothing but his Halloween
costume. Since he had been driven there

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by one of his friends, Chris
also had no ride home. He walked

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away from the bar and was last
seen heading north, but unfortunately, this

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would turn out to be the last
time he was confirmed to be alive.

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It seems very questionable about what would
cause them to not allow part of his

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party to go out with him,
especially if he was highly intoxicated, Like

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you would think you wouldn't dump somebody
outside. You'd figure out who he's with

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and get them outside and say,
hey, your friend's causing a problem,

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you need to go. But here
it seems like they were pretty negligent of

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saying, like, listen, this
kid's drunk, I'm putting him outside,

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doesn't have a jacket, it's freezing, and clearly they believe he's incredibly under

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the influence. So it almost feels
like they didn't try to protect him whatsoever.

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I get he was assumed to be
a nuisance there, but why not

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allow his party to be reconnected with
him and all of them leave. Yeah,

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Like, even if his death legitimately
was an accident, it's pretty much

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a given that this was negligent behavior
in the bar, just ejecting him and

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not letting him contact his friends and
retrieve all his personal items in his coat

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and putting him outside in these cold
weathers. And we're going to talk about

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this later on, But there was
someone else in the bar who may have

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had an ulterior motive to ensure that
christ was removed, and that might be

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the reason that happened, But it
just seems ridiculous that they see someone spill

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a drink on his pants and just
automatically assume that he urinated himself without even

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asking for his side of the story. I mean, from what I can

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tell, he was not causing a
disturbance. He did not look drunk,

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so it just seems really irresponsible to
just kick him out like that. It's

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almost worse if he is so intoxicated
that he did urinate on himself. This

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is somebody who isn't If that was
the case, and I'm not saying that

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it was, he wouldn't be cognizant
enough to be able to phone somebody to

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come and pick him up. You
would almost ensure in those temperatures that he

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would potentially freeze to death. And
I'm just assuming that these bouncers were twenty

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something guys, because there isn't any
nurturing energy in the bunch here. Just

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at least let the guy get his
coat or let him retrieve his cell phone

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in his keys. It just seems
like such a cruel action to take,

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even if he was so intoxicated,
because lots of people get intoxicated, but

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you're putting him in the path of
harm here. When Chris's friends could not

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find him inside the bar, they
just assumed he went home on his own.

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Later that morning, Ashley visited Chris's
house to return the items, which

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he'd kept inside her purse, but
he wasn't there, and since there was

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no sign of his Native American costume, this seemed to indicate that he never

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returned at all. Words soon reached
Chris's parents, Steve and jan Jenkins,

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along with his older sister Sarah,
that he could not be found. The

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Jenkins family traveled to Minneapolis and attempted
to report him missing, but the Minneapolis

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Police Department said they could not officially
launch a search for him until he was

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missing for seventy two hours. One
officer even tried to tell them that Chris

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had probably gone off on a road
trip somewhere and was quote unquote sowing his

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oats. Of course, the Jenkins
has found this idea to be ludicrous,

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since all of his important possessions were
left behind at the bar and he had

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nothing on him at the time,
and if Chris had gone to spend the

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night somewhere, he likely would have
called contacted somebody, but none of his

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friends knew where he was even after
the mandatory seventy two hour waiting period ended,

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it would still be a few more
days before the Minneapolis PD took any

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action on Chris's case. The Jenkins
family decided to organize their own search for

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Chris, and hundreds of volunteers,
many of them students from the University of

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Minnesota, attempted to look for him. This is the worst. This is

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of course, because he's over the
age of eighteen. They come up with

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this idea that, look, he
probably left on his own. But it's

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insane these cases we cover where the
family in their gut says, no,

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this isn't like them, Like he
went to this party with his friends.

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They had clear plans that evening,
and he should have arrived back at his

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residence. There's no reason he shouldn't
have come home. And that waiting period

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is horrifying for the family, who's
saying, please listen to us, something's

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wrong. And here, of course, the police are trying to reassure them

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by saying, like he's off sewing
his oats. He ran off on the

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road, and a family and the
girlfriend and all are saying, no,

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you don't understand. This is ridiculous. He left everything of importance, including

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the people he was with, with
no mention of leaving. He did not

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go on his own. Yeah,
I'm sure the police like have to respond

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to a lot of complaints about students
disappearing, and that probably a lot of

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the time it turns out they just
took off on a road trip or something

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and came back safely. But in
this particular case, it makes no sense

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because Chris didn't have anything but the
clothes on his back, and there's just

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no way that he would take off
without his cell phone or any of his

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personal items. Okay, And like
you're trying to tell us that he's out

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there sewing his oats a guy that
is so drunk that he urinated on himself.

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Like, I don't know. I'm
sure there's some women out there that

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wouldn't take issue with that, but
I would think that most who he would

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then approach with a wet crotch looking
like he's peede himself, aren't going to

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be in the mood to be getting
down. So I just don't understand this.

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He's out there sewing his oats with
what woman, Like he has a

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girlfriend? You don't just leave a
bar in that state, And that's what's

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like on your mind, and you're
able to successfully achieve it without your wallet,

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without your keys, without any other
clothes. None of it makes sense.

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And I find it so triggering because
I told you guys about the traumatic

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experience I had when I was in
my addiction, like in my mid twenties,

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and I left a bar without anything, and I didn't have my coat,

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I didn't have my wallet, I
didn't have anything on me, my

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phone was dead, And what a
vulnerable position that puts you in. It

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was one of those situations where luckily
I ended up living through it, but

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in a situation like this, where
this situation seems even worse because the temperatures

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were even lower than what I dealt
with. But it was winter when I

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had my experience, too, so
I can completely understand. So if I

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seem triggered at any point in time
during this, you both know why.

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Oh yeah, I remember that story, and I am glad you were found

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safe before they had to get the
police involved. And of course, another

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key difference is that you were dressed
in a Native American costume, which is

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going to look unusual for Chris if
he's wearing that the day after Halloween and

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I don't think he's going to pick
up many women while he's dress like that.

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Due to a lack of interest from
police, the Jenkinses hired their own

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private investigator named Chuck Losch, who
went to interview employees from the Lone Tree

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Bar and Grill. The security supervisor
denied the claims that Chris had been thrown

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out of the bar, while the
other bouncers became very defensive and provided no

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useful information. It turned out that
an off duty police officer named Mike Casey

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was present at the bar that night
in order to work security at the adjacent

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Henepin Center for the Arts. Ashley
Rice knew Casey and had even borrowed the

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shirt from his police uniform as part
of her Halloween costume as a sexy police

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officer. When Chris arrived at the
bar with Ashley, she introduced him to

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Casey. Witnesses were called Casey being
verys with Ashley. That night, after

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the bar closed, the owner held
an employee meeting, which was attended by

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Ashley even though she was not working
at the time, and when the meeting

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ended, it was Casey who gave
Ashley a ride home. Rumors circulated that

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it was Casey who asked the security
supervisor to eject Chris from the bar,

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and there was gossip that he wanted
Chris out of the picture so that he

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could make the moves on Ashley.
Chuck Losh's inquiries into the Lone Tree Bar

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quickly hit a dead end, as
the owner essentially issued a gag order for

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his employees. He instructed them to
stick to the story that Chris walked out

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of the bar on his own and
not to speak with the police or any

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private investigators without an attorney who represented
the bar. Officer. Casey made no

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attempt to contact the Jenkins family and
was never formally questioned by the Minneapolis PDE.

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According to Chris's parents, the police
told them, quote, he's a

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married man with children. We don't
want to break up a family. End

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quote. Okay, this is really
disturbing because you have an off duty officer

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who's I'm assuming moonlighting as helping with
security there. He supposedly has an attraction

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to Ashley and wants to get rid
of this kid who's with her so that

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he can make the moves on her. What enrages me is that the police

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department's time the family listen he's a
married man, Like, that's just not

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in his cards. Okay, that's
not in his deck of tools that he

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uses to have an affair. If
anyone has spent time around high stress,

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high commitment, and loyalty to other
people, and you think that affairs don't

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take place in the workplace or with
people that are interacting with, you're crazy.

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Almost every law enforcement agency knows that
several people in their department are having

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extramarital affairs. It's something that when
I work with law enforcement, it's like

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it's just such a high stress,
high crazy job and you get to to

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make deals and sometimes it's for money, sometimes it's for sex, sometimes it's

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for drugs. It's wild. So
the fact that they just pacified and say

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he's a good man, he's married, He couldn't have done anything to contribute

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to this makes me furious exactly.
And also considering that I don't know the

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exact age of Casey, but I
assume that he's a number of years older

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than Ashley, who is still just
a university student. But you have to

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sense that there might be something to
this relationship because like how many older men

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would lend their police officer shirt to
like a young girl so she could wear

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a sexy police officer costumes. So
it just gives me the creeps that like

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he just wanted to like possibly get
her boyfriend under the bar so he could

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hit on her. And then this
guy, this this boyfriend suddenly goes missing

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and now the police don't want to
cooperate because they're more concerned about this married

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man's reputation. Is that even allowed? Are you even allowed to lend your

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uniform to other people? Like?
I don't think so, that's what I'm

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thinking. It does not sound like
that goes with regulations because I know that

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most of the time, if you
want to be a sexy police officer,

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you just buy a costume with a
uniform shirt. It just doesn't seem right

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to be like lending an official uniform
as part of the Halloween costume. No,

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00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:15.720
it's definitely not right. It's like
the Tachi way when people borrow someone's

218
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:21.360
military uniform or by a military uniform
from a thrift short It's like that was

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00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:25.759
somebody's service uniform, you know,
like I don't know, but there's some

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maybe police officer, no way,
but there's something intimate about borrowing somebody's uniform.

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Like, I just don't feel like
you would just have a casual kind

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of like just know you on the
street or like acquaintance type relationship to lend

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somebody that, or to feel like
you could even ask somebody to borrow that.

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Don't you guys think, Yeah,
it does seem strange. I think

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like most police officers would be reluctant
to do something like that, especially to

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like a young university girl who's probably
like several years younger. She's gonna spill

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alcohol all over it, she's wearing
it on Halloween night. It doesn't seem

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like the chance that you're going to
get it in Christine conditioned back are that

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00:17:03.839 --> 00:17:08.519
great. And I don't think Casey's
wife would approve either. That's exactly what

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I was just about to say.
And I don't think that this amazingly married

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man who has his family at the
forefront would be at the bar on Halloween

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night loaning his uniform out either.
Chuck Klosh would pursue other leads, which

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included checking the surveillance footage from two
outside cameras at the Federal Reserve Bank.

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If Chris had attempted to head back
to his house after walking away from the

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bar. The quickest route would have
involved walking across the Hennepin Avenue Bridge.

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The cameras outside the Federal Reserve Bank
pointed directly at the bridge, but there

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was no sign of Chris at all
in any of the surveillance footage from Halloween

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night or the early morning hours in
November the first. The surveillance operator maintained

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that it would have been impossible for
anyone to cross the thousand foot length of

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00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:57.759
the bridge without being captured on camera. The Jenkins hired the services of some

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canine units, and two separate bloodhounds
would attempt to track Chris's scent from the

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00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.359
Lone Tree Bar. On both occasions, the dogs traveled to Times Square Pizza

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and Subs, located across the street
from the bar. Before following Chris is

244
00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.559
sent into an underground parking garage next
door and coming to an end at a

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00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:21.480
spot in front of parking stalls eighty
nine and ninety. In addition, dropless

246
00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:25.480
of blood residue, a piece of
red string, and red feather fragments which

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00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:29.640
possibly belonged to the headband from Chris's
Native American costume, were found in the

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00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:33.359
garage, Though this was all apparently
dismissed as potential evidence by the Minneapolis PD.

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00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:37.799
It's also worth noting that the friend
who originally drove Chris to the bar

250
00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:42.400
parked their vehicle at another location,
so there would have been no logical reason

251
00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:47.279
for Chris to enter the garage on
his own, So there was no reason

252
00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:49.240
for him to go towards a vehicle, maybe thinking Okay, I can meet

253
00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.640
my friends at our car. But
there does seem to be a scent that

254
00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:59.240
ends right there, meaning either he
did go that direction and was met by

255
00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:03.839
somebody else and taken or went that
direction, met with someone else and voluntarily

256
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:07.759
got in the car. But then
you add the droplets of blood and the

257
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:15.000
feathers and the string. It's very
disturbing. Do they eventually go back and

258
00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:19.519
link this evidence to the case,
or did they just miss it at the

259
00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:23.920
beginning? It never went back.
They do die further into it and look

260
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:27.839
into the possibility that someone affiliated with
the bar might have been parked in that

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00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:33.240
garage on that particular night, but
they aren't able to conclusively prove if Chris

262
00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:37.319
actually left inside a vehicle. But
the idea that they was dismissed right away

263
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.119
by the Minneapolis PD is pretty disturbing
because like the string and the feather,

264
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fragments like those aren't normal things you're
just ordinarily going to find a parking garage.

265
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:49.039
So it seems pretty likely that these
did belong to Chris's costume and that

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00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:53.119
he was there at some point,
Like at least you think that they would

267
00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:56.599
explore the theory that there could have
been foul play based on the fact that

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00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:02.319
there seems to be some actual evidence, rather than landing on he's sowing his

269
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:08.200
wild oats when we have absolutely zero
evidence of that transpiring. So more bloodhound

270
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:14.039
tracking was performed in December of that
year, and this time they followed Chris's

271
00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:18.000
scent outside the parking garage and through
the downtown area for four point four miles

272
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:22.480
before it came to an end at
the northbound ramp of Interstate ninety four.

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00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:27.759
This seemed to indicate that Chris had
entered or been forced into a vehicle inside

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the garage, which transported him to
another location, while one of the garage's

275
00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:38.079
attendants claimed that on Halloween night,
either stall eighty nine or ninety had been

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00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:42.359
occupied by a vehicle driven by a
bouncer from the Lone Tree Bar. Though

277
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:48.319
it's unclear which one one of the
bloodhounds did walk by this person's vehicle and

278
00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:52.480
produced a mild hit for Chris's scent, but for whatever reason, there was

279
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.400
no indication that this lead was ever
followed up on by law enforcement. It's

280
00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:00.880
also worth noting that a weird message
was found squawled on one of Chris's missing

281
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:06.240
posters, which was posted only two
blocks from the Lone Tree Bar. It

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00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:12.279
read quote loaded in trunk, paid
by dollars green end quote. Chuck Losch

283
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:17.599
would also speak with multiple witnesses who
were called seeing a group of at least

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00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:22.160
ten people attacking an unidentified mail in
front of Times Square, Pizza and Subs

285
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.599
in the early morning hours after Halloween
night. It's unclear if the victim was

286
00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:30.359
Chris, but it's been theorized that
the attack may have been some sort of

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00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:37.480
gang initiation. This is wild.
Their initial assumption is Chris had an accident

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00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.319
or completed suicide, and yet we
have the undercover police officer who might have

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00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:45.599
wanted him out of that bar so
he could hit on Ashley. We have

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00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:51.480
a cent that's followed to potentially one
of the bouncer's cars with blood present.

291
00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:56.559
We also have a potential gang initiation
or attack that happens in that same area.

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00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:02.160
So how when you have these pieces
of information, is your gut and

293
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:07.000
an eventual ruling that it's an accident
suicide and not undetermined at the least.

294
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And at this point, Chris's body
has still not been found, and this

295
00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:15.839
is December, one year after one
month after he went missing, So obviously

296
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this goes against the theory that he
was out there sowing his oats. So

297
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:22.319
it makes you wonder why don't they
jump into action, like Chris has been

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00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:25.759
gone for over a month now and
we have evidence of foul plays, So

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it just blows my mind that the
police are not taking this more seriously.

300
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Well, Chris would continue to remain
a missing person until after the new year,

301
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.720
but there would finally be answers on
February the twenty seventh, two thousand

302
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:41.599
and three, when pedestrians traveling across
the Third Avenue Bridge reported seeing a male

303
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:45.799
body floating on the east side of
the Mississippi River. The body had gotten

304
00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:49.759
wedged in the branches of a large
tree located next to the upper Saint Anthony

305
00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:53.799
Falls Dam. The victim was floating
on his back with his arms crossed in

306
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.799
front of him, and when he
was retrieved, he was discovered to be

307
00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:03.559
dressed in a Native American costume and
conclusively identified as Chris Jenkins. Even though

308
00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:07.160
Chris had been drinking before he disappeared, he was not believed to be overly

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intoxicated, as his blood alcohol level
was only zero point one two percent.

310
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.920
There are also traces of the date
rape drug GHB in Chris's system, but

311
00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:21.240
since GHB is also a substance which
can be produced by the body naturally,

312
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:26.000
this did not necessarily mean that Chris
was drugged prior to his death. Given

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00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:30.480
the amount of time he was missing, Chris's body had relatively little decomposition.

314
00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:34.279
The medical examiner found no signs of
foul play, but nothing to suggest that

315
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:38.160
he died of natural causes, so
the official cause of death would be listed

316
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:42.759
as undetermined. The tragedy affected the
community in a huge way, so for

317
00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:48.319
the first time in their history,
the University of Minnesota decided to award Chris

318
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:52.200
a posthumous degree. However, while
the Minneapolis PD leaned towards Chris's death being

319
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:57.279
an accidental drowning or a suicide,
his friends and family disagreed. They immediately

320
00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:03.480
discounted the suicide theory because Chris showed
no signs of depression and was excitedly preparing

321
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:07.519
for the future, as he already
had job interviews lined up after his graduation.

322
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.000
Yeah, there's nothing here. None
of his friends said anything about something

323
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:18.480
going wrong that evening. He had
plans after the night out, So it

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00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:22.519
doesn't seem like suicide is one of
the explanations I'd at all come to here.

325
00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:27.960
He was separated from his party on
Halloween night and wasn't seen for what

326
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:34.680
five months were his body's discovered in
the water. So I'm just devastated here.

327
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:37.839
I can't imagine what the family is
going through, saying like, Hi,

328
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:41.640
did anyone want to do a thorough
investigation? Was anyone going to help

329
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:47.319
us find our son? Or was
it just easier to pretending nothing to happen

330
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:52.920
until you were forced to when the
body was discovered. And it's particularly frustrating

331
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:56.400
because this was only a couple miles
away from the bar where he originally went

332
00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:59.720
missing, and you think to yourself, if anyone had been performing in search

333
00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:03.279
of this area, like right after
Chris went missing, maybe things would have

334
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:07.319
turned out differently and we'd have more
insight into what actually happened to him.

335
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:11.200
There was also some question of how
Chris wound up in the river to begin

336
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:15.680
with, since he had no broken
bones. This seemed to discount the idea

337
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:19.440
of him following or jumping off either
the third Avenue bridge or the head of

338
00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:26.480
an Avenue bridge, which was located
approximately one quarter mile northwest from where Chris's

339
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:30.880
body was found. Believe it or
not, one police officer stated that perhaps

340
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:37.519
Chris had drowned after jumping into the
water while attempting to save a duck.

341
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:42.359
Misresolved, Yeah, that's clearly how
this theory ended up, going from being

342
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:47.880
in the confines of his brain to
him speaking it into reality in front of

343
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:52.960
other people as beyond me. Since
the Minnesota PD officially considered the case to

344
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:59.039
be closed, the Jenkins family were
forced to conduct their own independent investigation and

345
00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:04.480
consulted with noun forensic pathologist doctor Michael
Bodden. Doctor Bowden's biggest issue with the

346
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:10.000
accidental drowning theory was that Chris was
found with his arms crossed in front of

347
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:14.799
him and he had his hands clenched
if one were to accidentally fall into a

348
00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:18.400
body of water. Their first natural
reaction would be to attempt to swim,

349
00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:23.440
which is why drowning victims are usually
found face down with their arms out towards

350
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:29.640
their sides. Their clothing is usually
disheveled, and it's not uncommon for one

351
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:33.039
or more of their shoes to be
missing, but this was not the case

352
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:37.640
with Chris or his Halloween costume,
as his nylon shirt was tucked into his

353
00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:41.440
drawstring pants and he was still wearing
both of his oversized slip on moccasins.

354
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:47.440
Chrisma's family also found it unusual that
he was found with no bruising on his

355
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:52.000
body. Since he was a lacrosse
goalie, it was very common for Chris

356
00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:55.839
to get bruises on his legs or
forearms, and he'd played in two games

357
00:26:55.880 --> 00:27:00.200
and gone to practice during the day
before he vanished. Since these bruises were

358
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.680
not present on Chris's body, this
led to speculation that he was alive for

359
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.680
at least three or four days after
he went missing, allowing enough time for

360
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:14.000
his bruises to heal. Who There's
a lot to think about in this part,

361
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:18.559
Okay, So if he had been
a victim of an attack, then

362
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:22.000
he would have definitely had bruising even
three to four days later. And it

363
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:27.599
seems odd to me that you would
hold a person like Chris captive. He's

364
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:32.680
twenty one years old, he's a
strong athlete, and you would have him

365
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:37.400
in the same close. He wouldn't
be beaten those kinds of things. I'm

366
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.519
wondering how you would hold somebody like
that against their will for three to four

367
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:45.960
days and then dump their body.
And it does seem like something had happened

368
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:48.960
and he was then placed in that
location, because, like you said,

369
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:52.759
Jules, if he had been alive
and conscious at all, he would have

370
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.880
been trying to save his own life, not the duck's life, but his

371
00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:00.599
own life. And yeah, I
would have probably taken that stupid, you

372
00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:06.359
know, Native American costume off and
put him in something else if I was

373
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:10.200
holding him hostage for several days.
It just none of it makes sense for

374
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.720
any of the explanations. If he
was held for three or four days,

375
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:17.960
we would likely see either needle marks
because you'd have to sedate him in some

376
00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:22.559
capacity, or you would see bruising
on the wrist because they would have to

377
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:26.440
bind him in some way to be
able to control him. You would either

378
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:30.599
need drugs or the ability to bind
him. So it just doesn't really seem

379
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.279
to line up with like what you
said, Ash, Like his costume is

380
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:37.160
pristine and he doesn't have bruises all
over his body, so how would they

381
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:41.000
have been able to subdue him?
And I don't put much credence into the

382
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:44.559
bruises thing, because even though it
was common practice for him to get bruises

383
00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:47.880
while playing lacrosse, I don't think
anyone is one hundred percent sure that he

384
00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:52.160
got bruises in the games and the
practice that he went through right before he

385
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:53.920
went missing. So for all we
know, he may not have had any

386
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:57.160
bruises on his body at that point
before he went missing. So this is

387
00:28:57.240 --> 00:29:00.680
kind of a red herring, okay, And like, I just have a

388
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:06.240
few questions about the duck. So
do ducks often get into dire straits in

389
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:10.240
the water? Do ducks often get
into situations where they could be potentially drowning?

390
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:14.400
And how would Chris be able to
spot this duck in the dark and

391
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:17.759
know that the duck was in danger? Did the duck quack out for help?

392
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:21.279
Yeah, that makes me wonder how
does a duck get into danger in

393
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:25.319
the water unless it's going into the
path of an oncoming boat or something like

394
00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:26.720
that. I don't think you should
be too worried if you see a duck,

395
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.079
They're not going to drown. So
yeah, I do not know what

396
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:33.640
this police officer was thinking. And
that why you would actually say this out

397
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:38.039
loud in front of Chris's family.
Sounds like a theory that somebody would come

398
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:41.720
up with while they were like smoking
a joint or something, and they'd be

399
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:45.279
laughing about with their friends, not
an actual theory that you would share in

400
00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:52.240
public with other human beings. It's
embarrassing. Hydrologists from the University of Minnesota's

401
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:56.480
River Lab, who are known for
profiling the Mississippi River, were also consulted

402
00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:59.839
about this case, and they had
a hard time believing that Chris's body could

403
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:03.960
have in the river the entire time
he was missing. While temperatures during Minneapolis

404
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:07.839
winters can often get cold enough to
freeze over the Mississippi River, this did

405
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:11.519
not actually occur during the months after
Chris went missing, and the first real

406
00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:15.839
freeze occurred in early January of two
thousand and three. After that, there

407
00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:21.160
were three separate periods of daytime thawing, with the last one occurring on February

408
00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:25.640
to twenty seventh, right before Chris
was discovered, So if Chris's body had

409
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:29.519
originally gone into the river shortly after
he went missing, it likely would have

410
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.359
flowed downstream and been seen during those
four months. The area beneath the third

411
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:38.519
Avenue Bridge was also searched by police
and canine units on multiple occasions in November

412
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:41.920
of two thousand and two, and
they never saw any sign of Chris.

413
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:45.920
It turned out that there were large
amounts of snow and ice on Chris's upper

414
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:51.119
body, particularly his right hand,
which seemed to indicate that they had been

415
00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:55.079
exposed to the elements, and the
last day a major precipitation in the area

416
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:59.079
was February third. If Chris was
already in the water by that point,

417
00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:03.400
then his body likely would have been
placed there at a different location, possibly

418
00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:07.680
after he was already dead. It
may have floated downstream for a short period

419
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:11.559
of time before it got caught and
froze into some tree branches, but wound

420
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:15.000
up being concealed for weeks after the
river froze over. When the river on

421
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:19.920
thought in February the twenty seventh,
that's when Chris's body became visible, Chuck

422
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:23.920
Losh spoke to witnesses who had crossed
the Third Avenue Bridge on February the twenty

423
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:29.000
sixth, the day before Chris was
discovered, who looked down into the river

424
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.559
and were certain his body was not
there. On February the twenty seventh,

425
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:37.079
another witness who crossed the bridge claimed
that they saw Chris's body entangled in tree

426
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:41.359
branches about one hundred yards away from
the spot where he was eventually recovered.

427
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:45.640
She called nine one one, but
it seems likely that before police arrived,

428
00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:49.440
the body had floated in the direction
of the upper Saint Anthony Falls damn.

429
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:53.920
When the tree branches got stuck,
they prevented Chris from going over the falls.

430
00:31:55.559 --> 00:32:00.680
The hydrologists also theorized that Chris's body
originally entered the river approximately one mile

431
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:04.720
from where he was found. This
meant his possible entry point would have been

432
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:08.319
northwest of the Hennepin Avenue Bridge,
a location Chris had no reason to visit

433
00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:12.880
on his own if he was attempting
to walk from the bar to his residence

434
00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:16.640
on the night he vanished. Another
unusual anomaly was that the combined weight of

435
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:21.920
Chris's lungs seemed to equal half the
weight a one normal, healthy lung.

436
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:24.599
This seemed to suggest that his cause
of death may not have been drowning,

437
00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:30.920
but suffocation, possibly by having a
plastic bag tied around his head. If

438
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:34.240
he was murdered in that passion,
that could account for why there were no

439
00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:37.720
noticeable signs of foul play on his
body. Could he also have been smothered

440
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:42.400
with a pillow or something that wouldn't
have required physical hands or a ligature around

441
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:45.400
his neck? That's true. Yeah, a pillow and also a bag like

442
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:49.200
anything that was not going to leave
any noticeable marks. And it makes sense

443
00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:52.039
where you look at Chris's body is
almost in pristine condition. They said there

444
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:55.799
was very little decomposition, which allowed
them to see that there weren't really signs

445
00:32:55.839 --> 00:33:01.799
of physical attacks on his body.
But it seems like he was really frozen

446
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:06.160
in the water the whole time,
so that would preserve it and keep it

447
00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:08.039
as if it had just been placed
there. But it could have been there

448
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:13.200
for months based on what you were
saying, correct, it's true. Yeah,

449
00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:15.880
like it could have been there for
months, but just in a location

450
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:19.160
where it cannot be seen by the
general public. Yeah. I don't put

451
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:21.880
much credence in the girl either,
who said I'm or the person who said

452
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:24.240
I'm positive that they were not there
that day, you know, the February

453
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:28.559
twenty sixth, and then someone says, February twenty seventh, he was there.

454
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:30.200
Yes, his body could have moved, but someone would have just been

455
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:35.160
wrong as well. You could just
glance down and you might not see it.

456
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:37.440
One thing I do find really startling
is the way that he's posed.

457
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:43.960
It almost seems to be like a
funerary posed, right when you pose somebody

458
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:47.880
with their arms crossed, like across
their chest. It just doesn't seem to

459
00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:52.319
be the way that somebody would drown. But I don't think that he would

460
00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:55.880
be moved to that position at that
point. It just seems likely that with

461
00:33:55.960 --> 00:34:00.079
the freezing, his body then became
visible and those eyewitness maybe just didn't get

462
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:04.640
a good enough look or were mistaken. Maybe they just weren't at a good

463
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:08.199
vantage point when they chose to glance
down there. We talk about eyewitnesses all

464
00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:13.280
the time and how easy it is
to be incorrect, but to believe wholeheartedly

465
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:16.639
that what you were saying is the
truth because you were recalling it as your

466
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:22.679
truth, but it just isn't really
the universal truth. Yeah, if someone

467
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:24.840
asked me months after the fact,
Hey, when you were walking across the

468
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:28.920
bridge on this particular day, did
you happen to glance down into the water,

469
00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:30.840
It's like, I'm not going to
remember that with accuracy. So I

470
00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:35.199
may convince myself that I look down, but in actuality I may not have

471
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:39.360
been looking at all. In two
thousand and four, Stephen Jan Jenkins had

472
00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:45.280
a meeting with the newly appointed Minneapolis
Police Chief Bill McManus, who assured them

473
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:50.880
that a new investigation would be launched
into Chris's death. But it would only

474
00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:54.559
be a month and a half later
when Chief McManus sent them a letter informing

475
00:34:54.599 --> 00:35:00.920
them that the case was now officially
closed. A surprising discovery was made during

476
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:05.599
the spring of two thousand and six. During a review of autopsy photographs,

477
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:09.000
one of the Jenkins' neighbors noticed what
appeared to be a clump of hair clutched

478
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:14.039
in Chris's left hand, and sure
enough, this hunch turned out to be

479
00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:17.920
accurate, as human hair was found
sealed in an envelope simply labeled foreign matter

480
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:22.960
in left hand, which is why
it had never been tested. DNA testing

481
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:28.119
would eventually determine that the hair did
belong to Chris, though there was no

482
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:31.039
explanation for why he was clutching a
clump of his own hair in his hand

483
00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:37.639
anyway. By this point, Bill
McManus was no longer Minneapolis Police chief,

484
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:43.360
and another man named Tim Dolan had
been appointed to the position. The jenkinses

485
00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:47.480
decided to present their findings about Chris's
death to Chief Dolan, and this time

486
00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:52.960
the new evidence seemed to make a
strong impression, as Dolan ordered the case

487
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:57.519
to be reopened. Later that year, Stephen jan would be called into a

488
00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:01.719
meeting with the medical examiner and two
officers from the homicide unit, who finally

489
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:07.599
conceded that Chris had likely been a
victim of foul play. On November twentieth,

490
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.719
two thousand and six, Chief Dolan
held a press conference in which he

491
00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:15.760
announced that Chris's death had now been
reclassified as a homicide, and he even

492
00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:21.719
issued a formal public apology. He
stated, quote, we made an assumption,

493
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:24.840
and because of that assumption, we
probably caused pain. Well, I

494
00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:29.679
know we caused pain in the Jenkins
family, more pain than they had to

495
00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:35.119
suffer and then they already had suffered. And for that, for the Minneapolis

496
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:38.760
Police Department, I want to apologize
to the Jenkins family. End quote.

497
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:45.079
Stephen jan accepted their apology and there
would be some new developments in the investigation.

498
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:51.639
Let me just say, holy heck. When do we ever hear of

499
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:57.679
a whole department taking accountability and the
police chief saying, I'm pretty sure we

500
00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:01.400
messed up and I owe a big
apology to this mom and dad who lost

501
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:07.920
their son and were not given straightforward
answers and were kind of misled for the

502
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:12.920
last four years. That alone,
when I work with families, the validation,

503
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:17.880
the respect, the just empathy that
you show for a family like what

504
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:23.280
Chief Dolan did. Wow. Wow. Even though they didn't have answers in

505
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:28.159
two thousand and six, they did
get a piece of the puzzle where they

506
00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:32.400
said, we were heard, we
were believed. Chris received a form of

507
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:36.599
justice that day by saying he didn't
take his own life. This was no

508
00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:40.159
drunken accident. Our baby went to
a Halloween party, was being a twenty

509
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:45.119
one year old kid, and he
lost his life due to somebody else's hands.

510
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:49.239
It's interesting when you talk about the
fact that Chris could have had his

511
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:52.800
own hair or did have his own
hair in his hands. What if he

512
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:57.800
was being smothered by a pillow,
had a sweatshirt tied around his face really

513
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:01.519
tight or something, and he's gripped
at the edge of that material, trying

514
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:08.360
to rip it off of his head, trying to pull a huge blanket pressed

515
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:12.280
against him, a big pillow press
against him, and he's gripping at his

516
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:15.039
head so hard that he's pulling his
hair out and his hands clenched like that

517
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:20.679
in his death. That would make
sense to me because I think that if

518
00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:23.000
this was an accidental drowning, like
I'm sure he would be flailing his arms

519
00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:25.800
and trying to clutch onto something.
But if you're in the water, I'm

520
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:30.760
not sure you can get enough momentum
to literally pull your own hair out of

521
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:34.639
your head. But if you're being
held down and struggling like you're being suffocated

522
00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:37.880
or something, then yes, I
think it is possible that you might pull

523
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:40.679
your own hair out just out of
desperation. I think that's a good theory.

524
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:45.760
Ash That makes total sense to me. Around the same time period,

525
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:51.400
an investigator revealed that there was a
suspect slash witness and custody in another state

526
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:53.760
on an unrelated charge. Well,
it would turn out that a witness had

527
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:59.159
told authorities that they were present when
Chris was murdered. They said an acquaintance

528
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:02.079
of theirs attempt to rob Chris on
Hallowey Night in two thousand and two and

529
00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:07.840
proceeded to toss him off the Hennepin
Avenue Bridge into the Mississippi River. However,

530
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:10.719
there were some major credibility issues with
this story. As you recall,

531
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.360
none of the security cameras at the
Federal Reserve Bank captured footage of Chris walking

532
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:20.280
onto this bridge on the night he
went missing. The bridge was also brightly

533
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:23.079
lit and had heavy traffic at all
hours of the night, so it seemed

534
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:28.039
unlikely that anyone could have thrown a
person into the river from there without any

535
00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:31.199
witnesses seeing anything. If that wasn't
enough, the bridge also had a high

536
00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:37.000
safety railing, along with a steel
support beam and vertical metal cables. If

537
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:39.400
Chris had been thrown over the railing, he certainly would have hit the beam

538
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:43.880
and the cables on the way down, but he had no injuries on his

539
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:47.760
body. In July two thousand and
seven, the Hennepin County District Attorney's office

540
00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:52.480
announced that they had been approached by
the Minneapolis pd about filing charges against the

541
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:57.679
suspect for Chris's murder, but they
ultimately declined to do so, but would

542
00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:02.039
not provide any further details. So, okay, in July two thousand and

543
00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:10.840
seven, they say that they're going
to arrest somebody right file charges and nothing

544
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:15.079
happened. That's true. Yeah,
And at the time they did not provide

545
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:20.840
any details about the suspect or what
evidence they had against them. But we're

546
00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:22.480
going to talk about it later.
But there are some other people who committed

547
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:28.360
another murder in Minnesota that I do
believe that this is the suspect they were

548
00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:30.760
planning to arrest, but for whatever
reason, they just decided against it.

549
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:36.480
But I don't think this person has
ever been eliminated as a suspect. Let

550
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:38.039
me ask you this. Have the
other people that we've looked at before.

551
00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:42.559
We had the bouncer at the bar, we had the police officer who was

552
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:46.320
off duty, and we had the
individuals that they think were attacking some one

553
00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:54.159
at the pizza place. Were any
of those people interviewed and excluded as suspects

554
00:40:54.199 --> 00:40:59.559
or were they always on the suspect
list. It's never been officially confirmed.

555
00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:01.719
Like the gang members who attacked the
guy near the pizza place. I don't

556
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:07.119
think they ever identified who those people
were, and the details about the bouncers

557
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:09.400
are very vague. I'm not entirely
sure if they were questioned. I don't

558
00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:14.239
even know, like if the identities
of the bouncers have been released publicly.

559
00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:17.000
And of course Officer Casey, they
didn't want to interview him back in two

560
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:21.000
thousand and two because he was a
married man and they didn't want to damage

561
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:23.719
his reputation. But I would like
to think that when Chief Dolan took power,

562
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:28.239
he did finally have Casey interviewed,
but I don't think they found any

563
00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:32.719
evidence that he was directly complicit in
Chris's murder. In two thousand and nine,

564
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:38.440
John Jenkins published a book titled Footprints
of Courage, which celebrated Chris's life

565
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:44.800
but also expressed the family's frustration at
having his death ignored by the Minneapolis PD

566
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:50.280
for four years. Well Jan greatly
admired Chief Dolan's attempts to make things right,

567
00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:54.480
she also found herself dissatisfied with the
lack of progress from investigators. Since

568
00:41:54.559 --> 00:42:00.679
Chris's case was reopened in twenty eighteen, The case was featured on episode of

569
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:07.199
the true crime investigation Discovery TV series
Breaking Homicide, which revealed some new pieces

570
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:12.920
of information for starters. On the
same night Chris disappeared, two men nearly

571
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.119
got into an altercation at the Lone
Tree Bar because one of the men had

572
00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:20.480
walked in off the street and was
attempting to hit on the other's girlfriend.

573
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:25.000
Chris apparently intervened and attempted to play
peacemaker in order to get both sides to

574
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:30.159
cool down. A fight never wound
up taking place, but it's unclear if

575
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:35.400
the incident played a role in Chris
getting ejected from the bar. The show

576
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:40.599
also contained an interview with an anonymous
informant who shared an unsettling story about frequenting

577
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:45.719
the Lone Tree Bar about two months
before Chris went missing. This man had

578
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:51.280
contacted the Jenkins family fifteen years earlier, but this was the first time that

579
00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:54.639
he was willing to go on the
record. The informant claimed that he ordered

580
00:42:54.679 --> 00:42:59.239
a drink at the bar, which
he thought tasted weird, so he decided

581
00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:01.760
to go outside. The gets a
mare. However, as he was walking,

582
00:43:01.880 --> 00:43:07.119
he could feel himself losing his senses, and he then remembered two bouncers

583
00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:10.320
grabbing him and removing him from the
bar to take him towards a parked vehicle

584
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:15.840
outside. The informant was able to
pull out his phone and contact one of

585
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:20.199
his friends inside the bar, who
quickly showed up and intervened before he could

586
00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:23.639
be placed in the vehicle. The
informant now suspected that someone had drugged his

587
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:30.000
drink with JHB and that this was
an attempted abduction. Well, that's absolutely

588
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:34.480
horrifying since we know for a fact
that he's kicked out of the bar under

589
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:38.199
circumstances that don't seem very threatening,
and it wasn't like he was in a

590
00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:44.039
fight, It wasn't like he was
making people feel uncomfortable. He's kicked out

591
00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:47.239
of the bar. We know that
a scent is tracked to a parking location

592
00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:51.679
where we believe at least one of
the bouncers was parked, and there was

593
00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:57.920
blood there. So if this informant
is telling the truth, his situation very

594
00:43:58.039 --> 00:44:01.840
much could align with what happened to
And we know that Chris had a presence

595
00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:06.559
of GHB in his body. Now, he did not have a very high

596
00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:09.239
blood alcohol content. It was point
one two, which is over the legal

597
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:15.119
driving limit. But that doesn't mean
that you're, you know, incredibly intoxicated

598
00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:20.840
necessarily, and we do know that
once you pass away the GHB, those

599
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:27.719
chemical components can present themselves in decomposition. But what if he actually was slipped

600
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:31.199
GHB and what if he was taken
to that parking spot where the bouncer was

601
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:36.519
and abducted the way that this individual
says they almost were. Yeah, and

602
00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:39.400
it's such a strange story. And
unfortunately we still don't know the identity of

603
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:44.760
the anonymous informant and know how much
credibility he has. But it's the way

604
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:46.639
he describes it. It's like,
does this bar just have like this crew

605
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:51.639
of bouncers who like to sleep slip
GHB into the drinks of men and then

606
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:54.920
like attempt to abduct them. Because
he specifically said that these bouncers were taking

607
00:44:54.920 --> 00:45:00.440
me towards a parked vehicle before my
friend intervened. And I keep wondering,

608
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:04.679
like, did you tell the police
about this back when this happened right before

609
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:07.199
Chris went missing, because it should
be a major red flag if it feels

610
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:10.880
like this bar is drugging people and
then trying to abduct him. I wonder

611
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:15.679
if they were too embarrassed to say
something. I mean, you're you're a

612
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:20.599
man, and you were somehow compromised, and you have grown men trying to

613
00:45:20.599 --> 00:45:22.800
take you somewhere. I wonder if
it's one of those things where it's like,

614
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:24.440
geez, I'm never going back there, and I'm going to tell everybody

615
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:28.840
I know not to go there.
But I'm kind of embarrassed or I don't

616
00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:30.880
really understand what happened to me,
so maybe I'm crazy. I wonder if

617
00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:34.840
there was a lot of that going
on in this individual's head. I think

618
00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:38.360
it's likely if it indeed did go
down like that, it would be something

619
00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:43.199
that you would have those feelings of
shame. But I also question, like

620
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:47.960
from another perspective, if those bouncers
were in there and they were somehow trying

621
00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:52.079
to drug people with GHB or maybe
the bartenders work, I would think the

622
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:58.159
likely targets would be women or girls
and people that they're going to take advantage

623
00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:00.360
of. Less likely going to be
the cross place saying men. I mean,

624
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:06.280
there's a potential there, but imagine
a scenario where they're trying to drug

625
00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:09.559
a girl but by accident he got
this guy got the drink, and so

626
00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:15.440
rather than have you know, him
be a huge puddle and mess outside and

627
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:20.760
have potentially the police get involved,
because now other people are going to find

628
00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:23.960
out that he's been drugged, and
then there could be kind of finds levied

629
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:29.480
against the bar or an investigation that
they then were going to put him into

630
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:32.519
a vehicle and just dump him elsewhere, so that it wasn't their problem.

631
00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:36.320
That is true, Like it couldn't
have been. It may not have been

632
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:38.079
like an attempt to abduct him and
kill him, because if it was just

633
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:43.039
like an accident where they drugged the
wrong drink and like the intended target was

634
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:45.480
a young woman, it may just
be a case where, well, if

635
00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:46.800
we take him out of here and
dump him, he'll have no memory of

636
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:51.280
what happened, and he won't have
anything if he wants to contact the police.

637
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:58.320
But the biggest revelation on breaking homicide
involved the convicted murderer named Jeremy Alford.

638
00:46:58.840 --> 00:47:01.719
In two thousand and five, Jeremy
and his younger brother Luis Alford were

639
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:06.480
charged with the murder of a man
named Douglas Miller. They were both sharing

640
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:08.760
a mobile home with Miller in New
Brighton, Minnesota, and were about to

641
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:14.719
be evicted before they proceeded to stab
and bludgeon Miller to death. The brothers

642
00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:19.159
were captured in their home state of
Iowa the following day. Jeremy eventually pleaded

643
00:47:19.159 --> 00:47:22.039
guilty to first degree murder and received
a life sense, while Louise was found

644
00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:27.679
guilty of second degree murder and received
a twenty five year sins Anyway, Jeremy

645
00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:30.039
Alfred would tell the FBI that he
was involved with a gang of killers known

646
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:34.800
as the Dealers of Death, who
had murdered between thirty to forty people,

647
00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:37.679
and his right hand man was a
guy nicknamed Zami Lei with a Z.

648
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:44.360
A female informant supposedly told police that
Alfred had bragged about murdering Chris Jenkins,

649
00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:49.519
and Alford apparently did divulge some information
which suggested that he had inside knowledge about

650
00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:53.760
what happened on the breaking homicide episode. Another anonymous informant, who was apparently

651
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:58.800
a former member of local law enforcement, claimed that Alfred and his crew were

652
00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:01.440
regular patrons at the l Loane Tree
Bar and may have been there on the

653
00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:07.679
same night as Chris's disappearance and gotten
into a scuffle with him when contacted to

654
00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:12.639
inquire about his potential involvement in Chris's
case. Alfred simply responded, quote,

655
00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:15.039
I really don't want to talk about
any crime I have been charged with or

656
00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:20.320
convicted of. End quote. Thus
far, there is no conclusive evidence to

657
00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:24.239
implicate Alfred, and the death of
Chris Jenkins continues to remain unsolved. So

658
00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:30.119
I guess you could say the path
went Chile. Is it possible that Alfred

659
00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:32.519
is one of the individuals that was
getting in a fight that Chris tried to

660
00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:36.719
break up. It is possible,
yes, I mean, they've never been

661
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:40.280
able to conclusively determine if he was
in the bar that night, but I

662
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:45.199
do think that's a possibility. And
I also think it's possible that Alfred was

663
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:47.559
the suspect that they were planning to
charge with murder in two thousand and seven

664
00:48:47.639 --> 00:48:52.760
before they decided against it. But
because they haven't revealed that information publicly,

665
00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:57.599
it's all just speculation. Okay,
So I don't mind saying this straight away.

666
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:00.400
I'm really not sure what to make
of this case. On the surface,

667
00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:04.920
if you didn't delve too deeply into
this story, it would be easy

668
00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:07.719
to assume that Chris's death was nothing
more than a tragic accident and that he

669
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:12.320
somehow fell into the river while attempting
to walk. Hope. The condition of

670
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:15.840
his body seems to go against him
having fallen from a bridge, But one

671
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:19.719
theory I've seen pushed forward is that
perhaps Chris walked down to the edge of

672
00:49:19.719 --> 00:49:23.199
the river somewhere in order to relieve
himself, but accidentally fell in. Of

673
00:49:23.239 --> 00:49:27.559
course, even if there was no
foul play, you could still argue that

674
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:30.960
the bouncers from the Lone Tree Bar
and Grill, which is no longer in

675
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:35.599
business in case you were wondering,
were guilty of negligence because they tossed Chris

676
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:38.519
outside on a cold winter night without
even allowing him to retrieve his coat,

677
00:49:38.840 --> 00:49:44.599
whilet cell phone and keys. It
doesn't sound like Chris actually did anything to

678
00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:50.000
justify being ejected, so you can
understand his family's frustration. I just mentioned

679
00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:54.000
this case's appearance on the TV series
Breaking Homicide in case you've never watched it.

680
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:58.880
It was co hosted by police detective
Derek Lavassor, who has since gone

681
00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:02.719
on to co host the pod cast
Crime Weekly, and forensic psychologist Chris Muhandi.

682
00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:07.400
What's interesting is that while a Vassor
firmly believed that Chris was the victim

683
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:13.320
of foul play, Mohandi still leaned
towards his death being an accident. Former

684
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:16.920
Minneapolis police Chief Tim Dolan was also
interviewed on the episode, and he actually

685
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:22.079
stated that while he did have the
case reclassified as a homicide, he now

686
00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:25.480
felt that the percentage of likelihood for
Chris's death being a homicide was fifty percent,

687
00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:30.880
accident around thirty percent, and suicide
twenty percent or less. However,

688
00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:36.159
it cannot be underestimated just how uncommon
it is for law enforcement to do a

689
00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:39.800
complete one eighty like Dolan did.
Like I stated in the intro, I

690
00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:45.039
have seen countless cases like this on
shows like Unsolved Mysteries, where a victim's

691
00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:47.679
death is officially ruled to be a
suicide or an accident, but their family

692
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:52.199
is convinced it was foul play.
They'll subsequently do things like hire their own

693
00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:57.920
independent investigator who will review all the
evidence and concur with their assessment that it

694
00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:01.280
was murder. But in spite of
this, ever changes. But here a

695
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:07.079
big city police chief had the death
reclassified as a homicide, ordered the investigation

696
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:10.800
to be reopened, and made a
formal public apology to the Jenkins family that

697
00:51:10.840 --> 00:51:15.599
type of situation is pretty rare and
demonstrates to me that the evidence pointing towards

698
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:21.480
foul play must have been fairly convincing. Even if Dolan is now confirmed that

699
00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:24.679
he can't say with one hundred percent
certainty that it was murder. I never

700
00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:29.559
believed for a second that Chris's death
was a suicide. And while one can't

701
00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:32.480
completely discount the possibility of an accident, you would have to come up with

702
00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:37.559
explanations to account for a number of
odd things which don't make much sense.

703
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:42.159
At the very least, you have
to feel that someone else was directly involved

704
00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:45.880
with what happened to Chris. Yeah. Absolutely, the way his body was

705
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:50.280
located, in the clump of hair
in his hand, and the fact that

706
00:51:50.719 --> 00:51:53.079
he's sitting there with his arms crossing, his hands clenched, it just doesn't

707
00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:57.920
seem like an accident. It seems
like if it was an accident, he

708
00:51:57.960 --> 00:52:00.480
would have tried to brace his fall, he would have tried to swim.

709
00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:06.199
There just would have been so many
other physical signs that he was fighting for

710
00:52:06.280 --> 00:52:09.840
his life. Here it looks like
he was deceased. His arms were crossed

711
00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:15.000
and he was placed in the water, and then Rigamortus could have said it,

712
00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:19.199
and maybe he stays in that seated
position or in that cross position even

713
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:22.719
when his body floats down the river. It's maddening to me. If you

714
00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:27.559
guys remember about two pages back,
I said, Oh my gosh, how

715
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:30.400
profound is this that this is in
two thousand and six, such a healing

716
00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:35.719
moment for the family to say,
the police chief apologized, the police chief

717
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:42.000
validated us, and then you have
the same police chief say, I mean,

718
00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:45.039
I don't really know what happened.
I'm fifty percent sure it's a homicide,

719
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:49.719
thirty percent sure it's an accident,
and twenty percent sure it's a suicide.

720
00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:53.239
Can you imagine being the family members
sitting there who have been fighting since

721
00:52:53.280 --> 00:53:00.199
two thousand and two for justice for
their son hearing that statement alone. I

722
00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:05.480
really feel for the family, like
that would just be so heartbreaking, especially

723
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:08.119
we're like, okay, well,
he's a fifty percent that it's likely homicide.

724
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:15.119
I'm sure the Dolan worked tirelessly to
get that ruling reverse so that it

725
00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:19.679
was ruled to be a homicide and
not just accidental. At the end of

726
00:53:19.719 --> 00:53:22.760
the day, I guess there's just
not enough concrete evidence and I think that

727
00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:28.840
goes back to the police initially not
investigating and not asking the right questions of

728
00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:31.679
the right people up front. And
like when we're looking at a situation where

729
00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:36.960
we've got this feather, we've got
the blood. We have these issues with

730
00:53:37.400 --> 00:53:40.800
Casey and his girlfriend Ashley, where
maybe they had a relationship, maybe they

731
00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:45.800
didn't, but either way, Casey's
trying to get Chris out of the way.

732
00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:49.840
And then we've got these bouncers who
reject him in this irresponsible way.

733
00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:53.360
And then we have his lungs,
which I only had about half the weight,

734
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:58.719
which was really something that would have
been more indicative of somebody who was

735
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:01.960
strangled or suffol hated, So that
doesn't seem to line up with drowning.

736
00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:07.199
And then, like Ashley pointed out
with her brilliant theory of a bag could

737
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:10.000
have been placed over his head while
he's clutching, he's grabbing, grabs a

738
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.440
tuft of hair. Would you really
see that in an accident If you're drowning

739
00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:17.199
thrashing your arms, why would you
grab your hair? And then the position

740
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:22.199
that his body is found in it
seems to lean personally to me more towards

741
00:54:22.199 --> 00:54:24.440
homicide. But you know, you
can never conclusively say when we just don't

742
00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:29.360
have the answers, and we can't
go back retroactively and ask the right questions

743
00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:31.760
of people, because at the time
they didn't want to break up happy families

744
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:36.159
and that was their justification, and
they thought he was out sowing his wild

745
00:54:36.199 --> 00:54:39.440
oats. Yeah, I really hope
that Dolan told the family about that whole

746
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:44.039
fifty percent line and they didn't learn
about it for the first time on national

747
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:46.840
television when he said that, I
mean to be fair, This is twelve

748
00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:52.239
years later, So perhaps after further
investigation, Dolan did find evidence which showed

749
00:54:52.239 --> 00:54:55.360
that there was a less likelihood of
homicide and that maybe it was an accident.

750
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:59.760
But like we mentioned earlier, back
in two thousand and seven, they

751
00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:04.480
came very close to arresting someone in
charging them with Chris's murder. So it

752
00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:07.559
makes you wonder what has happened within
the past decade that has made Dolit less

753
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:12.199
certain that homicide took place. But
you have to feel that there's a lot

754
00:55:12.199 --> 00:55:15.440
of information that they have just never
shared with the public. So I think

755
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:17.840
this would be a good time to
bring an end to Part one. But

756
00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:22.639
join us next week as we present
Part two of our series about the unexplained

757
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:27.280
death of Chris Jenkins. Robin,
do you want to tell us a little

758
00:55:27.320 --> 00:55:30.119
bit about the Trail Went Cold?
Patreon? Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon

759
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:35.719
has been around for three years now, and we offer these standard bonus features

760
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:39.519
like early ad free episodes, and
I also send out stickers and sign thank

761
00:55:39.559 --> 00:55:43.960
you cards to anyone who signs up
with us on Patreon. If you join

762
00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:49.199
our five dollars tier tier two,
we also offer monthly bonus episodes in which

763
00:55:49.239 --> 00:55:52.920
I talk about cases which are not
featured on the Trail Went Cold's original feed,

764
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:57.719
so they're exclusive to Patreon, and
if you join our highest tier tier

765
00:55:57.800 --> 00:56:00.719
three, the ten dollars tier.
One of the features we offer is a

766
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:06.840
audio commentary track over classic episodes of
Unsolved Mysteries, where you can download an

767
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:12.079
audio file and then boot up the
original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or

768
00:56:12.119 --> 00:56:15.480
YouTube and play it with my audio
commentary playing in the background, where I

769
00:56:15.559 --> 00:56:21.639
just provide trivia and factoids about the
cases featured in this episode. And incidentally,

770
00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:24.639
the very first episode that I did
a commentary track over was the episode

771
00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:29.599
featuring this case. So if you
want to download a commentary track in which

772
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:32.559
I make more smart ass remarks about
Jewel Kaylor. Then be sure to join

773
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:36.400
Tier three. So I want to
let you know a little bit about the

774
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:39.679
Jules and Ashy patreons. So there's
early ad free episodes of The Path Went

775
00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:44.559
Chili. We've got our Path Went
Chili mini's, which are always over an

776
00:56:44.599 --> 00:56:46.400
hour, so they're not very mini, but they're just too short to turn

777
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:51.320
into a series and we're really enjoying
doing those. So we hope you'll check

778
00:56:51.320 --> 00:56:53.960
out those patreons. We'll link them
in the show notes. So I want

779
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:57.840
to thank you all for listening,
and any chance you have to share us

780
00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:00.960
on social media with a friend or
direct ate review is greatly appreciated. You

781
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:05.880
can email us at The Pathwentchili at
gmail dot com. You can reach us

782
00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:08.559
on Twitter at the Pathwink. So
until next time, be sure to bundle

783
00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:14.079
up because cold trails and Chili pass
call for warm clothing. Music by Paul

784
00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:15.440
Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy