We happened to have three members of Stepsis here with us live in studio.
William, Melissa and Zachie b are all here. Welcome, Hey, hello,
good morning, and welcome to the new uh the new studio here.
You all haven't been here since we moved. I am taking in. I'm
basking in the yon Beyonce. It is absolutely gorgeous, isn't it nice?
This is a major upgrade. This is so much nice there, and I
don't it's crazy because I didn't want to say that going in because I didn't
know, like what the deal was with you guys, you know, departing
that the other place was nice too. Yeah, this is this is this
is great in our own building, our own name on the building. We're
not hidden on a third floor somewhere. And that's what I was going to
say. I usually get more exercise when I come and visit you guys.
Yeah, the old place, you would you would never even know that there
was a radio station up there. There was nothing on the outside of the
building that would indicate that there was anything right that the facade is great.
You're right across the street from Premiere Manchester Live Music Duel Ye Yeah, and
that's a very important place, isn't it. I just think it's location wise,
it's great. I love that you can just walk right down there.
I love than you guys are even closer to where I live now because I'm
right next to CMC. So I'm like, oh wow, like I can
see them from my house. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And like
for us, like when we play Manchester, we played Jewel. Yeah yeah,
so when we play our hometown, we play our hometown venue and then
you guys are right across the street. Yeah. Yes, Literally, Jewel
is important because I mean, we all know what's coming up. That's right,
warmy, that's right, that's right. No, we're doing we're doing
two stages this year, and we should. We did two stages last year,
and I was terrified because you know, I've never done it before.
Yeah, anytime I'm doing something I've never done before. See, I wasn't
terrified because I knew NH Booking had done festivals with two stages before. So
I was like, I kind of get the eye. Do you have how
they run? Richie told me not to be terrified, but but I still,
you know, I don't blame me something I do. I don't blame
you at all. Terrified with one stage event coordinating. It's not like being
in a band, you know, it's being in a band is not there's
not so much people pleasing, but that there is an event coordinating. Yeah.
I mean you got the guests, but you got the bands and all
the all the bands come with their own personalities and their own requirements, and
if you're coordinating the event, the thing you really want to have happened is
everybody to leave that night and want to do it again. Exactly. Yeah,
that's so hard to do, you know, exactly. That's a good
way of putting it. Yeah, and when is it for our listeners who
who don't know? So for the tradition where we're continuing to do the first
Saturday of November, so this year it will be on the second. So
I'm going to try to keep that tradition. But we really want to stay
away from the Halloween shows. Yeah, because you get that that cluster of
Halloween shows. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, that's true type of
show. Steps it doesn't do is Halloween shows are Saint Patrick's Day. So
we're trying to keep it more closer to Thanksgiving, you know, Thanksgiving show
sure. Sure on my calendar. On my calendar it says Swarmy Fest Day.
I love that. Yeah, I love it. So uh now who's
going to be playing this year? And are you still adding to it?
Yeah? I can't tell. And that's that's because this year we're going to
do like a band a week, so it starts next month. Us in
an h booking will probably release a band a week, so each week heading
towards Swarmy Fest, we'll have bands to learn about as it goes. I
like that. I like that every band will have their own flyer, every
band will have their own We're gonna try to we're gonna try to, you
know, do really well with the images and the artwork this year. And
so when will that When will that start? When you when you release the
name of I would love I would love it to start at the beginning of
July. But we got this thing called rock Fest coming up. Oh tell
us about that? So so we we have we have a second album that
we're trying to complete, we're pretty close, and then we have this you
know, building Swarmy Fest, and then we have rock Fest. So but
between these three priority events, it's been it's been challenging to juggle all of
them, no doubt, and and keep it balanced. And that comes down,
Matt. It comes down to money, money in pre production and planning
and in quality, because it's like, if we have the time to get
something done the quality that we predict or expect or hope or plan it to
be right, and then you have like your budget and like how you're going
to be fiscally responsible. I don't know how the bands do it, but
we're a business, so we have to be also like fiscally responsible liquid and
inventory, and so when we have merchandise, we're a direct to consumer style
gift shop, so we depend some artists depend on streaming. We depend on
hats, t shirts, stickers, meeting people, streams, broadcasts. So
we're a little more touchy pheely. I guess well, in terms of the
merch I mean that is where the money is anyway, really, I mean,
you know, for us, it's also where the discovery is. What
do you mean we're a brand? So that's that a lot of times people
discover us not through our music map, people discover us through podcasts, live
streams. A lot of times when people ask how do we get booked?
For big shows or or how are we getting big opportunities. It's never the
music. It's never the music. It's never my guitar playing, you know,
it's never songwriting. It's it's it's people. People resonate with the message.
People lock into a human wavelength. And and people vote. You know,
used to do politics. People vote for who they like. You know,
it doesn't you know, people don't. People don't vote for who's right
or wrong. People vote for who they like. People want to people want
to feel good man. And and so we're in a hospitality business. We're
entertaining people. We're in a business and making people feel good, you know,
keeping people informed. And we're we're a polarizing group. So people love
us or they don't. But that proves that we have to output. So
we're always we know as a band that our job is constantly looking for our
fans. So that's that's the move. And anytime that you have quality and
you have your budget and you have the time to do it, you have
to sacrifice one. So that that's kind of the road to Swarmy Fest right
now and releasing our next album. A lot of our friends that are in
bands, they've released eight albums, seven albums. Sure, Sure, Me
and Melissa didn't record and release any professional music until twenty twenty, as you
know, that was a difficult time for people to do anything. But we
don't have we don't have albums prior to twenty twenty. So I mean this
is our four this is our fourth year anniversary since releasing almost eleven and we've
had a few singles since then. But we don't want to be a band
with a catalog, an enormous catalog, where great music in the streaming world,
where great music the people could discover might get lost in a sauce.
Sure, So we're again like quality, timing and resources. We're not a
forever band and we're not made of money. So we want we want our
we want our legacy to speak in terms of quality and care and craftsmanship,
you know, and we want to resonate with the people that really matter the
most it can benefit. So Rockfest has been a tremendous undertaking because plane tickets
are staff. You just I don't know if people understand the scope of how
large these festivals are, you know, thirty fifty thousand people. We're also
the finale band, so we gotta we got to be on the We got
to be on the field out you know, for twelve fourteen hours and then
still be able to hang and play our set. We're playing an hour set.
Yeah, we play Wisconsin. We're going to be flying out there and
we play as soon as Jelly Roll gets off, no kidding. Yeah,
that's a great opportunity in the sense of rock Fest. It's cool because we're
the last metal band or rock band that you're going to hear for the fest.
Like, so as a finale band, we have a we have a
tremendous opportunity. People leave before the headliner a lot of times so they can
beat the traffic, sure, you know, and people that are there for
rock and metal, if they're not there for Stepsister, they're going to leave
before Jelly Roll, you know, if they're not fans of country or Jelly
Roll whatever, whatever, that's going to be. So people that are like
traditional hardcore and metal people, we know that if they stayed that they're staying
to watch the set, and we plan on putting on when hell of a
show. To believe me, We've got a whole new performance planned for this
New dance moves really taken our time to upgrade our stage package. So like
we've got new gear, new an, your monitors, head rushes, all
kinds of stuff. It really takes it really takes time, like figuring out
what the tools are going to be. The world's changed a lot, so
in order to go across country twenty five years ago, you might have to
rent big amplifiers or you know, to carry on bags and then you know,
if you check a bag, you know, hundreds of dollars to try
to check in luggage. And so luckily our band has been using technology for
a while that we don't we don't bring on big amplifiers anymore. All of
our technology you can put in a bag, except for the drums. So
but we had to we had you know, we had to drop ship all
of our merchandise, rent drums out there, and it's all it's difficult.
You want to go to you don't want to go. I mean a lot
of a lot of bands get the opportunity to play large festivals and in their
defense, not of not a lot of people have the team and the budget.
That's all going to come together, Like we all come together and we
sit down and we go, you know, how how can we come together
and make the most of this. So like for us, we planned for
nine months. Yeah, you know, because because we're not rich, but
we plan for nine months. That way we can chip away at things and
we can work together as a team. So we go, how are we
going to get this merch table filled? You know, there's a lot of
small bands like us that might have this opportunity and it's great. They play,
but they have nothing to leave, but they just they haven't planned how
they're gonna Like for us, I don't want to give all the tricks the
trade, but we literally sit down with think tanks and go, well,
how are we going to make a connection. How are we going to make
our live performance different from the other bands? How are we going to use
the twelve hours? What events? What are we going to do each of
us? What are we going to do to add value to the company.
What are we going to do to get people in front of that stage?
What's the priority list? And we kind of we kind of work our way
down and check the boxes and go what do we set out to achieve with
this? Because a lot of people get a chance to play Swarmy Fest or
a big stage or rock fest and it's fun, right, and of course
making money is cool and on all of that, but what do you set
out to achieve long term? And that's that's what's important for us. Maybe
that might differ from some other acts is we know we're going out there representing
New Hampshire, New England and not a lot of not a lot of heavy
metal and hard rock bands from New Hampshire ever get this opportunity. Yeah,
well, what you're talking about too requires I mean there's a degree of discip
into that, right, all that planning that that not everyone. There's contracts,
there's discipline, there are rules there, you know, safety and and
the thing that a lot of independent artists don't want to talk about is investment.
We invest in ourselves, not and not just money. The time Melissa
spoke on it earlier, I mean, we don't just sit around. In
practice, we're rehearsing for this thing. You know. We take each show
in each stage as a special case. We're looking at blueprints, we're looking
at stage plots, and we're trying to make each each show and each experience
unique. Have you always approached it that way or is that something you kind
of had to develop over time? Melissa, I would say that was something
that we've always done. We've always tried to we've tried to stage performance.
In the early days, who used to say we were like a it's kind
of funny, it's like a compliment now, but they used to say we
sounded like a like a like a wasps nest, like a shaken up bag
of b We had this great idea, but it was kind of all over
the place, you know, earlier in the scene we were kind of known
for being zigging and zagging. But we've got such an incredible team in lineup
right now. This is the first time we've worked with musicians in the band
that me and Melissa didn't have to train. Oh interesting, interesting, Yeah.
So and of course, my brother Salvatore pants back on drums. He's
a legacy members he's the longest member of Sebsist ever. So, so we're
back with our original drummer, and we have a whole new staff and revitalized,
re energized group. And this is the first time we're working with musicians
and instrumentalists and staff members that are familiar with the project and and want to
be here and and that are benefiting from the full features of the project.
And this is the first, this is the first group of people we've worked
with professionally that I didn't have to train myself. Now, what do you
mean when you say when you say trained like that, like either train,
I mean you don't mean literally teach someone to play. I mean literally teach
people how to play instruments. Really of course, Yeah, that's and that's
that's that's not that's not a knock, you know what I mean. We've
had a lot of people that have been really positive contributors to the project.
But in their defense, this music is really unique and when you listen to
it, it sounds like something everybody should be able to play, and that
we designed it like that. We designed the music so so it sounds like
it should be easy to play. Well, some some of those guitar solos
you play do not sound easy to be but instrumentalists. And maybe I'm wrong,
but we've had a lot of people pick up the sticks or try to
pick up a guitar. I mean, let me get it, let me
get a shot at that riff and then get to work and around it.
And and it's one thing even if you work it out by yourself, but
getting five or six people in the room and everybody doing it together and having
it all work out is really ambitious. So yeah, man, I've had
to teach people how to play instruments, but I've also had to teach them
how to play sepsis because it's not just like playing guitar. It's like playing
stepsis. It's a whole another monster on its own. Yeah, it really
is, It really is. Hey, I want to ask you all about
streaming. Yeah, you mentioned it, and and you you've posted a lot
I've seen individually and as a band. You just actually really over the last
couple of years, I've seen a lot about I think you did you pull
everything from like that you had on Spotify and all that. So I'm really
curious about this. So yeah, that's you know that, that is a
great question, because they're not. I think you hear that a lot for
effect. You hear a lot of people doing that for good stories. Now
we're pulling from Spotify and the only reason why we haven't, the only reason
why we haven't is because our first album we signed a record deal right up
you know we were Oh yeah, I remember you talking about this, so
you know, me and Melissa. We were excited just like any other artists,
you know, and you know, we had A and r's all over
us when we came out with our first music. When we you know,
when we hooked up with Glenn Robinson and our lives started to change. We
could hear our music for the first time. Yeah, we started making and
once you hear your music, you start making it differently. We started writing
it now as much we could hear it, we could organize it and make
it differently. And then we just got a lot of A and rs and
record labels, and it's just like, just like they tell you not to
do it, we did it, you know, just like, what do
you mean to just tell you not to be naive? You know, give
yourself time before we we we make the music us as artists, and then
as soon as the music's done, we're waiting for somebody to validate us,
you know, exactly, waiting for somebody to off you know, you put
all of your life into it. You've practiced, you've invested, you went
broke, you almost got evicted, and then as soon as the music's done,
as soon as we're getting out of the studio, we run out and
give it away. This is why Lexi doesn't allow me on the merch table,
because I'll get, I'll give because I want people to wear the shirts.
I want people to wear the hats. I want to give it all
away because because meme Less are sad artists that love making music. You know,
we want to get our name and we want to be your friend.
We want you know, and we want to do we want to play on
stage. Isn't that silly? But but like but that's you know, so
Memeless and Zach, we're doing this a lot of time. You know,
it's it's sad, but because we like it and we're having fun, and
this is this is really a family for us. This is really we're really
best friends in this band. So this is our time we can sneak away
and be with each other and and you know, and be human and enjoy
and live fully. This is this is how this is how we live fully,
you know, by seeing people get sober through our music and and people
to survive with our music. And people have grown up with our music now.
So you know, we signed the record deal and I people say,
you know, you should sign it. You should talk with a lawyer,
you know, when you when when you sign a record deal? And I
did, and my lawyer told me, don't sign a record deal and I
and I didn't listen to my like, I didn't listen to my lawyer,
you know. So people tell you to do these things, and I did
these things and I ignored everybody and me and then and then and then me
and Molissa signed the contract and and then that was that, and we're still
to this day. It's funny, we're making CDs for for rock Fest and
I've been fighting with my record label forever. They can't stand me. But
so so you're still you're just to be clear, you're you're still locked into
that. Oh? Absolutely, really that is yeah, that is a very
real thing. Okay, yeah, Sony Orchard Orchard Okay, oh yeah,
I'm familiar yeh. But but it's not the it's not their fault because all
of these are acquisitional like companies, you know, like like it's like Sony
doesn't sign people, They just acquire companies, right, you know what I
mean? Laels, And yes, the music industry is an acquisitional you understand
this. But when I tell my friend this, they think I'm they think
I'm making they think I'm making stuff up. Now, I taught myself there
that they think I'm making stuff up. But I so you understand it.
No one's ever looked at me in the last year and said, oh I
get that. Yeah, well you just threw me off there. But there's
a lot of uhl dation. That's the word I was looking for it.
And all the artists and and all the the labels, they're all still even
though we all know it's kind of silly, they're all still counting and playing
off the mystique. Sure, you know the magic and mystique. Everybody goes,
well, how did you get signed? I was just in the right
place in the right time, and I played the right chord, and Melissa
came out and the wind blew, and then you know, a record company
scout happened to walk in offered you a ten album out to l A and
right. No, we were taking we were taking good pictures. We have
strong social media. We got a great producer, h Melissa is a killer
host of the page, and and and and people can see that we're willing
to invest in ourselves. We're in A and R's dream because yeah, because
that's what labels want now. You know, they don't want it. They
don't want to do the A and R. They want that already done,
all set. And we're a perfect target. Yeah, we're a perfect titic.
These guys. These guys work hard and and we really want it.
You know, if you if you go and you approach some kids, eighteen
nineteen year old kids, they might change their mind. You know, they
might get a girlfriend stuff like that. Right, You know, folks like
us, we're perfect because they go. You know, these guys know how
to pay their bills. These guys are fiscally responsible. You know, they
can play their instruments. We've made mistakes, but not many of us have
made the mistake. And they're all waiting for that. They're all going to
get you. All of all of our all of our friends and our deepest
closest celebrities in contacts in the industry. It's all happened to them too.
We're just the only band that talks about it. We're the only ones.
There's no there's nobody that talks about it. It's it's a very because it's
embarrassing. It's embarrassing to get taken because because we're counting on the mystique of
being tough rock stars. We're brilliant. Nobody can take advantage of us,
and you know, we're such experts, right and and it and it kills
artists to go, I'm not an expert. I'm ambitious. I developed my
identity when I was a child and and I and I and I want to
be like the guys that I saw on my wall and on the posters.
And that's and it's harder than ever to do that, right because in the
social media era, it's you know, whatever mystique you can, you know,
managed to have, it's harder than ever to hang on to that.
The low is lower and the high is higher, so the career climb and
whatever. You know. We live in a society now too that like whatever
you whatever you're not driven to do, and whatever you haven't honed the talent
for, you're you're encouraged to buy it. Everybody's the DJ, everybody's a
model, everybody's a you know. So we're in we're we're in that time
now where content creation is one of the fastest growing industries planet. Yes,
on the planet, yep. So that's why I meant it earlier when I
when people say How did we get to open up for Jelly Roll at Rockfest
by going live on Facebook? Man? How did I get a record deal
by by having great social media and Melissa kicking butt? You know? Yep?
But that I mean that that's how we're It's not because the guitar.
Yeah, you know, it's never it's not the music. But you still
need the music. Well, I mean, I mean, if you're a
conduit, I mean, if you if you do everything else, but what
you put out isn't of quality to work, of course, you're not gonna
be able to keep people. So this is we're We're not a viral band.
You know, we were talking about the career climb. We're a longevity
band. And that's what I meant about not having fifteen albums a marathon,
not a sprint for us. It is for us. It is we waited
our whole lives to be adults. We also make adult music, and a
lot of people are catering to a younger crowd, to kids and child format
entertainment. Me and Melissa are you know, we do the adult thing,
So we make music for adults. Our music is adult themed. Some kids
like our music, but our music is our demograph is for grown people with
bills and boyfriends and girlfriends, relationships and you know people that my dad's a
big fan. By the way, are you serious? Yeah? Yeah,
But my dad is unique. So my dad, he's in his seventies,
but he's never been he's he's highly unusual in the sense that he loves hearing
new music. He lives on the sea coast, so he listens to double
Oh, he listens to w U n H the Great College Wow, because
he's he's he's never been like, you wouldn't get in a car with my
dad in her oldies on the radio, It wouldn't happen. That's a great
station. Yeah oh yeah, yeah, I grew up listening to that.
Yeah, oh yeah. Radio is wonderful. But my dad, yeah,
he's always been like he's sipper than me actually, Like he'll ask me about
artists that I'm not even familiar with. I'm like, no, I don't
know them. But yeah, he's always he's always been like that. But
but he's a big fan of Sepsis. See, he's not crazy about the
name full disclosure, but he's not the name that I forget how he said
it. It was funny, but he loves your music. That's awesome.
Yeah, I appreciate that, and you know I don't I don't hold anybody
that doesn't hurt our feelings because I'll tell you now more than ever. You
know, as you as you get older, you know, you go you
start thinking about all the band names that you that you loved grow you know,
growing up. Yeah, you know I loved you know, Cannibal Corps
and yeah, you know, you got Butcher Babies and now you know,
now a middle aged guy, I'm going, you know this is crazy.
Yeah, sepsis and butcher babies. Thrat. You know, when when we
need the name of the band, we didn'tame we didn't really name it after
the medical term. Yeah, me and Molissa didn't know any better. You
know. We just were like, let's name the band something cool, yeah,
you know, and let's make sure that we can have it on Google.
That was our big thing. Oh yeah, really mean anything? Ye
yeah yeah right. I just thought it sounded dangerous, and you know,
later on we found out all the all the things that happen when you grow
up. Yeah. But yeah, so so Spotify, So are you still
there or did you pull? So? I'm sorry about that that's such a
crazy thing. So I would, you know, I would love to.
I would love to pull our music off of Spotify and do a massive press
release. I would. I think that would be so much fun. Oh
so you haven't pulled it? Yeah, no, and I can't and I
would like to, but there would be no reason for us to do it
now because our contract with our record label is so I can only pull down
my own music, and then my record label would give me the finger,
you know, and say, well, you can't pull hours, And I
was I was making a joke because we're wild and rebellious and lawless heavy metal
band. I'm always breaking rules, so you know, I'm not supposed to
make the record label mad. But we know we're going to Rockfest and I'm
not supposed to really go through anybody else, you know, for direct to
consumer products. So I'm like, I'm gonna back door these dudes, man,
go make my own CDs. And you know, we went to we
went to one of our partners and we started to generate the CDs and immediately,
you know, immediately we got cont Immediately the paperwork came through and we
got copyrighted. Yes, So I mean this is like yesterday, we're like,
oh, they're never gonna see it, like we're moving it around.
And that's how that that's how strong the technology was. Like we got an
email with less than twelve hours of them going your record labels complaining and we're
gonna need written permissions and all that. I said, man, this man,
forget it. So we got, we got, we got another year
with those with these guys, and then it is one of us. They
only thousands of dollars. Really, yeah, of course that you hear that.
You've heard that, you know when you say to you like the bands
and the the you know, t LC said it and Bobby Brown said it.
You can Flip Knot said it. You can have a multi platinum album
and be broke. Absolutely, yes, man, it's it's not an unusual
story. This is a wild thing. No, they took they took all
of our money. Man. Yeah. And then I I confronted them and
I said, you know, you're stealing my money, and they said,
well, we're going to continue to do it. Cause if you're if you're
if you're already wealthy, you you can hire uh an accounting firm or a
lawyer to do an audit but but when you're not already wealthy, they know
they've they've got you. And and remember what I said about acquisitional companies.
So what they do, okay, what record labels do is they acquire a
whole bunch of promising, smaller artists and then they have their boutique or white
glove artists, Okay, and they sign all of us, not because we're
terrible, because we're really good. You can't really sign terrible people because you
need people to go forward through the process, and the only type of people
that are going to go forward and complete the signing process are driven people like
Melissa, right. So they need people who are willing to commit and that
are good because people that don't believe they're good, people that don't believe they
deserve a shot, aren't going to go and complete the process because the process
is hard to get a record deal. So only driven people that I mean,
you find somebody in their thirties that have been practicing their whole life,
They've invested their whole life. You know, they got great music, they
got great they start asking themselves, well, why shouldn't I be signed?
This type of mentality is what A and r's look for And what happens is
is they acquire a whole bunch and then they throw it at the wall to
see what sticks, right, but most of them. And there's only there's
only a limited amount of people that are allowed to be successful at the top
at any given time. So there's only a limited amount of people at the
top that have the success model that we're all willing to learn from. So
what happens is is they acquire a bunch of smaller, really good artists and
they keep them below aligned. And the reason why is if they if we're
not making enough, all right, or if they can claim that let's say
there's a lot of returns, or they can claim that, okay, then
then they're always counting on us not making enough to go to court and litigate.
True, they're trying to rip you off just enough where me and Melissa
aren't going to spend ten grand and fly to Chicago and sit in a crimeroom,
right exactly. So I mean, if we were litigating tens of thousands
of dollars, then I can get on, Then I can get an entertainment
lawyer and we could throw punches. But if they're doing nickel dime nickel dime
exactly. And if you have three hundred artists on your label and they're only
making three hundred dollars a quarter, but you have three hundred artists acquisitionally each
quarter you're pulling in half a million. But none of the small artists are
realizing they're part of this half a million pool, right, So like,
oh, do you want to take them to court, Melissa, Oh my
no, Well this quarter they only got us for two fifty. Yes,
but they got three hundred other bands for two fifty during that quarter, four
quarters in an entertainment season, and for all that, you're you're at their
mercy. To the point where a very common horror story in the music industry
is that you know, you record an album for them and they decide to
shelve it. You do all that, and and you don't have the rights
to your masters, and they just say, no, we've decided we're not
going to release it, or maybe we'll release it in the future, and
it's like and and and and we tested them on this theory when we came
out with the song. You already know it wasn't really it was more like
a rhetorical that we wanted to test the company to see what they would do.
Really, we predicted that we well, yeah, we started to say,
okay, these guys are shelfing us. Let's throw them another single and
and and see if they ask for money. You know, so we we
we use you already know as a single, and we set up a booby
trap to see how they would to see if we could confirm that they were
shelfing us. And they, yeah, they and they one hundred percent,
you know, they wouldn't release that they wouldn't release the single want So they
didn't want They only wanted the song under the condition that we released it after
they were done promoting their boutique artists. Okay, yeah, because obviously it
came out. I thought that they were taking all of our money and pushing
this boutique artist. I'm not going to say the name because I think it
would be unfair. I don't even think they know what's happening. Yeah,
yeah, so I think they were taking, you know, two hundred of
us. They were taking our money acquisitionally, and they were pumping it into
this to the to their White Glove boutique bands. Yeah, and they didn't
like the timing, so they didn't so and I saw them doing this,
so I said, man, let's go to the studio, make a song
real quick and see how they react to it. I'll say, we'll do
the best we can on it, yeah, you know, like sonically,
yeah, yeah, like we'll bring it up to radio threshold, will we'll
we'll hit notes like let's yeah, let's let's just see what they say.
Yeah, you know. And and of course when they when they got the
track, they made every excuse for us to go back to the studio.
For us, they started playing games and trying to redirect to the studio to
buy time, you know what I mean. So we played it with them
for a while and just proved it just you know, just proves that you've
got to find the beauty and everything. And if if it wasn't for this
relationship, I would not have been able to run competitive campaigns against my own
record label. Like in in the process, I realized that steps is acquisitional.
So just the same as these guys are doing to other people, we
can learn the same tricks as legacy right holders and shareholders too. Not everybody,
We're not. They're not the only people that can play that game.
So you know, so our time that we've spent with our record label.
You know, we've been making best friends with everybody on this staff. And
you'll learn and you'll learn, so that's good. The other thing that people
don't know about labels is that I think is as interesting, is they actually
don't mind if they signed If they sign artists and they end up losing money
because maybe they advance you a bunch of money, and and and the whatever
you record doesn't generate enough money for them to recoup them money the advance.
They don't care because it's if it's a loss on the books that's actually helpful
to them from an accounting standpoint in terms of taxes. Yep. It's the
same thing that the movie studios do. You know, every every major movies
studio, every year, they they they've got at least a couple of movies
that bomb, that end up losing money. They don't mind. They don't
mind at all because that's a tax right off. So they don't mind losing
some money. No, I mean, after every big show, there's always
you know, five or ten T shirts that we don't mind giving out.
Yeah, I mean it's real, yeah, yeah, absolutely So what so
you're you're on that label for another year. You said another year. That's
the It's so there will be a Spotify steps this showdown. Yeah, there
will be huge, guaranteed, it'll be huge. But then, so,
what's what's the motivation though to pull from Spotify? Why do you want to
do that? Because there's because they're thieves. Yeah, because they hurt people.
Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't want to hang out
with people that hurt people. Even even major artists complain that. You know,
it's it's pennies for for and for us for us, it's not.
It's not just what they're doing, it's what they're gonna do. What do
you mean? Spotify is not a music company, you know, it's a
stealing company. So if you're into Marcus Aurelius or Confucius, they can't be
resurrected to collect royalties. Do you get what I'm saying. Yeah, that's
why the move to audio books, that's why the Spotify will take whatever whatever
it's not nailed down, oh, podcasts, pornography, anything, religion,
anything, pot You understand, Spotify is in the business of stealing people's work
and ideas and then not paying them for it mm hmm. That's the game,
right, And I know it's it seems obvious, but it really is.
It really is. Tupac can't come back to life and argue about mechanical
royalties. That's true. And so that's why you see your point. That's
why you see spot That's why you see spot cat, Spotify moving to podcasts,
that's why you see them moving to towards audio books, because it's not
about music. It's about owning data. It's about farming data. It's about
adding to machine learning, and it's about being able to predict your your shopping
habits. It's not about music. It's about creating bundles that people will sign
up and do subscriptions for. And when you subscribe, they are data mining
your demographics where you and it's the same for Netflix and grub hoob. And
this is an app world. This is a technology world, not a music
world. So Spotify is in the tech business, not the music business.
Yeah, and that's why they don't care about musicians. Yeah, they're actually
I think now because we've talked about it on the show, I think for
the first time, they're starting to cut a lot of people loose, like
like if like if you don't have like if well, I know for one
thing, they're not they're no longer paying you if you don't meet a certain
threshold. Yes, in terms of money that you've accrued for streams, they're
just not going to pay you at all, like you have there. They're
establishing thresholds. But they're also I think they've reached a point where because in
theory anybody could upload music to Spotify, but now they're starting to like artists
that are uploading like demo quality stuff, they're just saying, that's why I
said the lowest, the lower Yeah. Yeah, they're starting to kick people
off. Yeah, and and and they're also they're also following the predictable path
of adding tears with high fidelity audio. Like it's twenty twenty four. I
think that that's weird that Spotify doesn't have high quality the audio, but apparently
you have to pay for that too. So you got to understand how ridiculous
this sounds. Like Stepsis is a band and we mix and master at the
highest quality that technology is provided, but when you upload it to Spotify,
they knock it down to low quality music can so this this is why,
this is why we wouldn't want our music on Spotify because like bands like Stepsist
make high quality music, right, but Spotify charges our fans to listen to
our music at high quality. That doesn't make sense. Our fans should be
able to have the quality of the music that we created it at. Yeah,
now is it? Is it a double edged sword? Though? If
you do pull, if you do pull your music from Spotify, does that
hurt you in some way to not be on Spotify? Not not us?
No, no, we be we our band doesn't benefit at all from streaming
on Spotify. Yeah. Yeah, the bit a big thing that that the
big I guess, the big lure to Spotify when when it's not we all
know it's not money. When you talk to when you talk to even big
artists, they'll tell you it's not money. The thing that they'll tell you
about Spotify, the big reason why we're all supposed to be excited to be
on it is for exposure. Stepsus doesn't need that. Yeah, I mean
it's so so. And in order to get exposure on Spotify, you have
to give them more money. You have to pay for our keys, you
have to pay for advertising campaigns, you have to pay to be on these
discovery that's payola. We all know in radio that's illegal. So you're a
radio guy, you know, in radio that's illegal. It's a crime.
But because it's streaming, it's not a crime. So we should we should
clarify just for people who don't know. So payola refers to and radio and
and back in the day, you know, if you were a DJ,
for example, somebody might might give you an envelope full of money, right
and say, hey, play this song for me, right. Basically,
I mean, that's that's a little reductive the way I explained it, but
just to give people the idea, and that's that is illegal. You can't
it is, And I guess I mean there's all sorts of legal ways to
do this as as anything, but yeah, that is illegal. Our big
mission has always been a big statement, and part of our brand has always
been like fairness man, and what we've learned from the record label, and
like we weren't really a band with much of a mission before all of this
this stuff we had to work through, you know, but I can pay
for sure that one of our you know, one of our slogans is you
know, fairness, you know, and being inclusive and mutual and that's why
we do all the podcasts, that's why we're teaching people all the time.
And people are convinced that being on Spotify is going to get them exposed to
someone. But that's not true because subscribers that subscribe and pay for Spotify,
they only listen to under fifty artists a month. Yeah, so this is
not a This is not a device or a gadget or gizmo, as much
as they liked you to believe, it's not one that's invested into discovering artists.
That sounds cool in a Facebook post. That sounds great when you're trying
to sell your technology, that sounds great, you know, But this is
this this idea came from the same guy that used to work for you know
you torrent and and bit torrent sure and sites that that you know, these
these pirate sites. Well, we're in a business of stealing data and media.
So if you Daniel Eck is the CEO of Spotify, and if you
know who Daniel Eck is, you got to start in. You torn and
you know you torn in places like lime wire or pirate or pirate Bay.
We're illegal websites that mastered specialized and we're experts at stealing data and media in
movies and games and music. But that's also why these services exist, like
I just like Spotify exists because of Napster. Yes, yes, and so
and and and and when we talk about this in plain English, it means
that we went from stealing and outright piracy to streaming. We're only one degree.
We're only one click and then and in two decades we've only moved one
degree from stealing. So when people are like, why why is Spotify a
difficult place to be, it's because we haven't moved the needle, Matt,
We're still that close to stealing. Now, think of in terms of this,
you know, we just had June Juneteenth, right, think of think
of think of like we think if we only move the needle that much in
slavery, right, think if we move the needle only that much in women's
rights. It's it's that simple, Like, well, with women's rights,
we just moved the needle back. I hate that. I hate that,
but I'm not going to do it to you. I'm not right, I'm
not gonna do it. I just exploded the other day on that I'm not
gonna do it. But that's separate. Yeah, we'll do that another time,
right, but but but in the same sense though, in the same
sense, it's like we haven't I know, we're supposed to be this advanced,
you know, society, and this is supposed to be you know,
the land of the free and the land of opportunity and Spotify I will tell
you that, you know, that's the big advertisement, is that you know
that we're going to get exposed and then it's so all this opportunity. But
if you know anything about Daniel Ck and where he comes from, he comes
from stealing media and music. And he just said recently that what do you
say, Zach, that the cost of music or the cost the cost of
content creation was nearly zero. I can't believe that. I mean, this
is this He said this last week on Twitter. He said the CEO of
Spotify said the cost the he seems to know how much stepsists budget is I
guess, but he said that the cost that musicians he doesn't play any instruments.
Yeah, this isn't a guy that's been on stage or sings or anything.
But he seems to believe that the cost of creating music for musicians in
the modern day is zero is nearly zero. He is out of his mind
soenter lately. Yeah, so, I mean that's so. You know,
years ago when they were selling us this technology, it was gonna open up
opportunity and musicians, we're going to be able to help themselves paid to rent.
And we don't have a I'm musicians minimum wage yet, right, and
we're working on it. I think the Musician Minimum Wage Act is asking for
a penny a stream. Well that that's a I'm not aware of this.
Oh you'd love this. This is a bill right now, Okay, right
now, there's a bill and everyone loves it. It's called the Musician's Minimum
Wage Act. Everyone should go look it up and everyone should go sign a
petition. Everyone. Oh you got to get into this. Yeah this got
this got passed me. I'm embarrassed to say that, but yeah, I'm
not aware. Oh please write this down. Maybe, well it's being recorded,
that's true. Well, if you're at home and you're listening to this,
yeah, yeah, I got to write this down. If you're a
musician, if you're a band, look up. Yeah, the Musician's Minimum
Wage Act. Okay, it's really cool, interesting, very interesting, a
cool thing to get behind. Yeah. Yeah, well, I'm glad we
were able to get in all that. I love talking about that stuff.
But as we approach the top of the hour, we should probably circle back
to all the exciting things coming up and well, we've got a second album
coming out called Take the World by Swarm. Yes, and we've been releasing
singles for this over time rather than you know, just dropping the bomb all
at once. Yeah, We've got a new song coming out soon called the
bath Water, which is going to be featuring our merch girl Lexis Swarm on
Screams excellent. We're super excited for this one. Well, we'll be making
a music video for this as well, so cool, stay tuned for that.
Yeah, our new guitar player, Hot Sauce drops a cool solo on
it too. Okay, yeah, some really different, some really cool.
So that'll be on the new Is that gonna be on the new album?
Yes? Yes, And Romance and Reality will be on the new albums Yeah,
okay. Cool. Awesome rock fest we mentioned earlier July twentieth and caadat
Wisconsin and Bravo Fest September twenty eighth at Charlie Bravo's Connecticut. It will be
will be a Hot Rods Spotlight Lounge in Connecticut also on August thirty first.
That we got a couple of things. We've got a couple of things going
on. Yeah, yeah, you're you're not a band that like plays like
tons and tons of shows and oversaturates, which I which I respect. We
try not to do that because some some bands do. I back in the
day, I used to play in bands that would do that. You know
people people won't. Well, you know what the issue is that you keep
telling the same people to come to the show, and then you know it
loses its sauce. Oh yeah, you want to give people a break.
Like I don't regret it because there was a time when all I wanted to
do was play. It's also a different time, but people had time to
pray back then. Like people prayed, people went to church, people did
push ups, people played video games all weekend. People made love, people
went out to dance. People don't have time for that anymore. You got
to look at your algorithm and then go boost. You got to boost your
chart, compete with somebody, right right, Yeah, that that's true,
that's true. And then Swarmy Fest in November. Oh yeah, remember second
November. I would be honored. I would love if you guys would come
and be a part of that this year. Everyone's excited to have you guys.
Yeah, we're excited. We're very excited to keep me away. Yes,
yes, and of course I didn't know you had a microphone over there.
Huh. That's awesome. And yeah, so we're gonna have eleven bands.
Everything we do is eleven eleven songs on every album. Eleven bands.
Why is that? Does that number have significance? It does. So we
have the album Almost eleven, which was released in twenty twenty, yeah,
through Pavement, and we named it that because the band constantly sees the number
eleven eleven one over and over and over again. Yeah, it's like numeral.
Yeah, I've heard. I've heard that eleven eleven specifically have some significance.
Yeah, they like and they're like the like they call them like angel
numbers. We're not like, we're not like religious people or nothing like that,
but that's just what they call them. Yeah, yeah, no,
that's cool lore tradition, but the whole numbers, Yeah, it's very bizarre.
And yeah, so we're excited about Swarmy Fest and obviously we'll have more
information about that soon. Yep. Your friends are going to be there though.
They're coming back this year, Legion and they're coming yeah, and so
they'll they'll be coming to hang out with us. They'll be there all day
Saturday. And our friends from New Hampshire Guitars Yes to be coming down to
I'd love to get them down here with you. Guys. They are such
a fantastic bunch when I get when I plug the swarmy fest man, they
are a great bunch to have done. I mean, there's there's a whole
group of these guys and they're they're great players, and they are just so
New England and in so New Hampshire. Yeah they belong here. Yeah,
I could already feel it. But they got a really cool thing going on
in Windom. It's the only place I get my guitars TechEd at. Oh
no kidding. They before any big shows that I have. You know,
anytime we need like unique gear fixes, uh, stuff that nobody else would
touch. New Hampshire Guitars Man, they do the thing. Yeah, they
So we play on these things called head rushes. They're like computers and you
know, if you call Guitar Center they wouldn't touch it really Yeah. New
Hampshire Guitars had it fixed within a week. Okay, all right, but
I mean guitar setups, bass setups, they got lessons down there. Yeah,
I mean I'll plug them to death because it's because they're really good.
Yeah. We met them at the at the first Swarmy Festky had a booth
in the back. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they seem like really good
guys. Yeah. What should people know about how to find stepsis online?
Where's the best place to go and keep up with every dot com website?
And we should spell it? It's S E P S I S S right.
I don't know if there is there an is there an actual like with
one s dot com that might confuse people? I don't know now that you
said that, wh rank, Jenny's gonna look, Yeah it has, has
anyone ever y S I S dot org? Dot com points to a dot
org and yeah, it's basically teaching people about the medical I hope we don't
I hope we don't confuse people. Yeah, yeah, has anyone ever misspelled
your name on a flyer? All the time? But yeah, but there's
like, I mean, there's like forty bands named after the disease. I
mean, yeah, we follow all of them. Website is looking awesome,
thank you. That's that's Melissa's work there. I can't take any credit.
Looks great, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. A lot of content there
and really good, really good stuff. I'm gonna end. I'm gonna be
a little bit selfish. I'm gonna end with my favorite Sepsist song. And
my dad loves this song too, by the way, this is the one
that I think got his attention, Eyes of Empathy. Whoa, wow,
wow. I love this song. We haven't played it in a while,
but I never get tired of it. It's so so good. So we
will end with this. But thank you that all three of you. I
really appreciate your coming in today. Thank you so much for having always having
always wonderful to see you. And here it is. This is Sepsis,
Eyes of Empathy. Strange still Jesus see the green style and breads spread its
wing, Si and screen streets and hill and just send them some losing hill.
The great oh my love Bill the cover sorry coms in this scene and
I cannot be questions the breaking bocuse I spend the taking raspaking in Sam Clare
cushion through the tools of that, here's a crimson. No, you can
never go back home. Some life on. Really, Christian May Bright to
the men, you cannot be christ through the freak to cause you can't.
I can't find it's you joking, knee taking the man as the instruments.
The cold streams are going in other boy,