Hello everyone, and welcome to the show. This is Martin Willis with podcast
UFO and just a couple of announcements. This is another prerecorded show. I'm
traveling and so this will come out. It's also going to be for people
that like to watch YouTube. It will be video on YouTube. You can
watch it there. And just a quick announcement. On September eighteenth, I
am actually going to head up to New Brunswick and go to Stand Freedman's home
and I'm going to do basically retirement show. He's retiring. We know he's
retiring, we don't know exactly when he's retiring. But what I would like
to do is I'd like to invite the podcast listeners that normally listen to the
show to actually watch that live. It's going to be again on September eighteenth
at six to eight pm Eastern Standard time, and I'll be right there with
Stan at his home and invite people to call in and wish him, you
know, a happy retirement. And he's done an awful lot for this field
and we will certainly miss him. He's a great guy. I think he's
been on the show something like ten times, something like that, and so
I wanted to make sure that I did the last show with him the right
way, and he agreed that I could actually come to his house and set
up and video and record him and also be a podcast as usual. And
I do want to thank everyone that helps out with the show, and anyone
can do that, and all you have to do is go to podcast UFO
dot com and that information is right there, and that is going to be
it for me. Alejandro is not doing news of course, because this is
a prerecorded show, but he will be back. I'm going to try to
get him on the September fourth, when I'm going to be in Vienna,
Austria. I know that Jeremy Corbell will be on that show for an hour
and then hopefully the second hour will be a UFO enthusiast ed Wadro, who
lives in Vienna. I'm going to be, He's gonna be visiting and hopefully
he'll be on the show, and we don't know what we're going to come
up with, but it should be interesting, to say the least. It
we'll talk about UFOs in Austria and stuff like that. So my guest tonight
is Grant Cameron. He's been a repeat guest. He's always very fascinating.
I got to meet him a few years ago in the Great State of Maine
and anyway, excited to talk to him about a book that he published,
but also some research that he's doing. Now. We were talking briefly ahead
of the show and it sounds very interesting what he's up to. And we'll
get to that. And welcome to the show. Thanks for having me on,
Martin. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's been a while. I
think it's been a few years since you've been on. Maybe even longer.
Find out time flies, isn't it. Yeah. Yeah, So I liken
that I just see in the background on YouTube for those watching on YouTube,
is that a UFO I'm looking at behind you? Yeah, a little abduction
things. Someone gave it to me. Oh it's a painting. What's a
painting? Yeah, yeah, that's nice. It's kind of a cool little
thing. So yeah, right, and you are in Canada and a lot
of people know you from the White House UFO that you you worked on for
a long time, going all the way back to you know, Bill and
Hillary Clinton, and they're involvement. I'd like to talk a little bit about
that. But for the person who most people know who you are, but
real quickly, can you go into your background? I know you had a
sighting. We're going to talk about that, but kind of go into your
background if you would, real quickly. Okay, yeah, sure. For
a lot of researchers with the way it starts to started with me, this
is me. This actually starts in February of nineteen seventy five, small town
by the name of Carmen, Manitoba, Canada, just north of the US
border, starts having sightings. The US has just put in the only anti
ballistic missile unit that ever goes operational with one hundred new nuclear missiles, and
suddenly, on our side of the border, we start getting these UFO sightings,
and I tell my friends, you know, instead of driving around the
city, which we used to do as young kids, let's go see what
they're looking at. We say, Okay, we're gonna go. We don't
go, We don't go. Three months and then this bizarre incident occurs where
a TV studio is trying to film. There's a bunch of TV people out
there trying to film from different networks, and they basically catched this thing,
which I think was basically planned. When I look back, thirty five years
later, they catch this thing jumping off the ground and they filmed this thing.
It goes viral. NBC picks it up, and it's to that point
where I said, my friends going, let's go look at they're looking at.
I have no interest. I have interest in near death experiences and near
death studies. I guess which I still have and I'm actually working on right
now. And I was into Edgar Casey seconds, but I was never into
UFOs, could never have thought about extraterrestrials or anything. And so we go
out. We're there for an hour. We drive in this town of Carmen,
out out, in, out, and my friends says, okay,
we'll go back in town one more time. If we don't see anything,
let's go home. I said, fantastic, because a total waste of time.
And as we turn to go back in the object ap Pearson left to
the right, it's down low, it's bobbing up and down, and nobody
in the car said, because we had been for an hour, we're going
to like is are we're looking at stars and planets more and is Abuta looking
at it? And nobody knew what they're looking at what everbody was describing.
When we saw it, everybody just said, there it is. Everybody instinctively
knew. There was no doubt this is what everybody was talking about. It
was just so bizarre, and so I sort of fell off the edge of
the earth. Two nights later, I dragged all my friends out there,
and they all take off after an hour. And when it comes the second
night, it's coming right ass the second night, directly at us. And
at that point I was sort of thinking to myself, this is a big
story, and I'm why is nobody doing this story? Why is nobody researching
this thing? Because the rumor was that half the town had seen this thing.
So I started going around and I started interviewing people in the town,
and I put together this manuscript and this guy, I guess about a year
and a half later, I try to get this manuscript published and nobody will
touch this thing. And it was a big story. And the local publisher
here who should have done the story, said to me, mister Cameron,
you may believing this kind of stuff. Count me among the unbelievers. And
I was horrified. I got wow, it's like, this is the biggest
story viewed all these people and all these bizarre stories in this town, and
she wasn't interested at all. And so from that point, I've never really
done sightings, have been interested at all. All been interested in is the
second night when this thing was flying by, I was looking at it,
and I've actually just done a paper on this. I was watching this thing
fly away the second night, and I'm going, that could be from another
planet. I was just sort of awe struck by this thing. And there's
people yelling and screaming and some guy taking photographs and stuff, and I'm just
watching this thing fly away into the north. I'm thinking, what are they
doing? It's like they weren't doing anything. We're just flying along. I
was like, just like this bizarre and I to this day that I've always
been interested in the whole thing of somebody must know what's going on here,
somebody must know what I saw, somebody must know what this phenomena is and
why they're here, and it's all been interested in. So I went through
this thing, and I chased the Canadian government and they were very active from
nineteen fifty to fifty four. I put the manuscript on the shelf. I
actually gave it to my sister, and it was actually gone for twenty five
years. My sister is sort of like a I wouldn't call her a hoarder,
but she's like the family historian, and she kept this manuscript for I
would say thirty years. And then she brought the manuscript back and said,
remember, he gave me this thing, and I didn't even remember. I
remember writing a couple of chapters, I don't remember writing old manuscript. And
so I went after the Canadian government. And as if you know the Canadian
government story, the Canadian government was linked into Vanavar Bush and the defense people
and in the United States. So we tracked down through them all the different
US officials that we believe the Canadians were dealing with, and that led to
doctor Eric Walker at Penn State University, who chased him AROUNDI at fourteen honorary
doctor Degrees was chairman of the board of the Institute for Defense Analysis, the
top military think tank in the United States, co developer of the homing torpedo,
fifteen years president of Penn State University's Big Ivy League Engineering College, and
he knew what was going on, but he didn't want talk about it.
He was classified. He said, I kind of talk about this bugged him
for eight years. I had a team of people that I never really interact
with people. I'm always like, I always had this joke that I stay
one step removed from my victim. So I had a bunch of people said,
oh, I can get him to talk, and I would give him
the phone number. And so a bunch of researchers from around the world,
We're talking to Walker. And I was just basically recording whatever he was was
getting. And after eight years, he said, Okay, that's enough of
this, let's just publish it. And we published a thing and he kept
talking even after we published. It was kind of weird, and that's what
led to the president. Because after Walker died, I believe he died in
ninety four or something, I went to the Eyes and to the Truman Library
because Walker had said that he was going to leave some files from he was
the basically assistant Secretary Defense when he was invited to a series of briefings I
right Patterson Air First Base dealing with a crash, recovery and alien bodies,
and he admitted he was there. I really didn't want to talk about it,
but he had. This is when he was this Assistant Secretary Defense for
period of one year, and he said he was going to leave those files
at the Truman Library. So I went to the Truman Library to find those
files with Walker had left there, and the files weren't there. They had
a few files on Walker, but the files we were looking for weren't there.
And it was at that point where I said, man, the president
is the most powerful guy in the world. I he's gotten on what's going
on. So that's when I asked Archive this. They said, well,
so what he got on UFOs And they had a bunch of If you remember,
back in fifty two, there was the overflight flight of the capital and
a bunch of people sent in telegrams to the president, don't shoot him down,
mister President, don't shoot him down. And then a week later the
thing flew over again. So they had all those telegrams but really didn't have
that much. I'm going it's kind of weird. And that was in Independence,
Missouri, and the Eisenhart Library is just down the road. It's maybe
two hours down the road in Abilene, Kansas. So I said, well,
I'll go to the Eisenhar Library it's pretty close. I'll go down there
and I'll see what's going on there. And there was that point where if
the Eisenhar Library, it's very sort of formal. All the archives walk around
in suits and stuff. It's like really really formal, and you have to
do an interview to get to art to research there. So I went there
and they want to know what it was going to research and all this sort
of stuff, and they had actually done before I got there. I'd sent
in this request to research. And at that point they had five five documents,
and one was the famous ci Robertson found Report, which is not it
was authorized under Truman, but it wasn't finished until Eisenher so it's in the
Eisenhower Library, so that document is there. But other than that, they
only had five documents. And so I said, well, how many pages
of files have you got and he said twenty eight million pages? And I
went, this is subst wrong here. I got five five documents and it's
twenty eight million pages. Because to me it was such an important subject.
So that's what led me on this track for I guess maybe I guess I
worked on at twenty five years. I chased all the presidents. I tried
to find out which ones that had sightings. I went to almost all the
presidential libraries looking for documents and stuff, and I found a couple of interesting
things, but there really was much there. And then to finish the history
of what happened to me in twenty twelve, I'm watching this lecture by Colin
Andrews at the UFO Congress. Don't want to be in the room, not
really interested in crop circles, only go because Colin Andrews is a major figure.
And that's when I have these download experience where I just boom, all
this stuff comes into my head and basically answers the question that I had in
nineteen seventy five, what is going on? What is this all about?
And it was this whole idea, it's non local consciousness. It's well,
first I was consciousness. Then I realized it was nonlocal consciousness, almost like
you had Jen Hartson on the other week. And that was one of the
things that popped into my head was the conversation between ben Rich and Jan Hartson
where he said, how did they get here? How does the proposal system
work? And ben Rich turns around and says, exactly what Walker had said
to us two years before exactly the same thing. He said, ask you
a question, what do you know about ESP And so Walker'd asked at ninety
one. Then Ben Richard asked John Hartson in nineteen ninety three. And when
this all came into my head, this is it. It's this non local
consciousness thing came with absolute certainty, and then I just shifted my focus from
there into trying to deal with the people who are interacting with a phenomena.
So I deal a lot with experiencers. I deal a lot of I've tracked
down. I guess about fifty people who flown the craft, how do you
fly the craft? And they're all saying the same thing. And it's this
consciousness aspect, which I maintain now is the answer, and that unless you
go down that road to conclude this whole thing, you will never solve the
problem. That is the problem. And you're starting to hear Tom DeLong talks
about this. John Alexander's just written a book on consciousness, The Connection of
Consciousness. If you look at the whole a tip thing. It started at
Skinwalker Wrench. It didn't start with UFOs, It started with the paranormal.
The portal stuff. And so I've been chasing around Ron Pandolfi, the head
CI guy, the operational guy, and he's been putting this portal thing out
for two years and nothing is traceable. He looks like he's the mad Hatter.
He's just like crazy stuff. But he keeps talking about this portal.
Now John's talking about the portal. Now you hear that, the like put
off and these guys are talking about this, these wormholes the portal, and
that's the whole thing. It's this, this whole idea of consciousness that if
portals are real, the nuts and bolts idea of the universe is in a
lot of trouble. It's it's not nuts and bolts the way we think it
is. And most people that's what they think. It's like land on the
White House lawn, give us the toys and then get the tack out of
here. And that's it's much much more complex than that. And maybe this
is in the end, maybe White Vallet took off because Valet is the guy
that started this old thing, Jack Vallet, this whole thing that I'd be
very surprised if this turns out to be extraterrestrials and that's it. That's my
opinion now. And I used to think Vallet was crazy, but it was
the old thing about knowing and believing. So before twenty and twelve, I've
had a lot of beliefs. But when you have a download experience like that
where it comes with absolutely certainty, then you know, it's sort of like
it doesn't really matter what people say. It's almost like when I saw the
UFO, It's like people, I was never interested in sightings anymore because I
know this was not a light in the sky. This was in fairly close
and I had five fairly close observations in seventy five and seventy six. So
it's that difference between knowing that people think, well, you thought you I
believe you saw something else. Well, no, no, I was there.
You're the one that believes. I'm the one that knows. I'm if
if there is such a thing as knowing the people who having the experiences.
So I spent a lot of time with experiencers. What are they saying?
What are they being told? What are the forty two percent that are getting
downloads? What are they being told? In these downloads? Forty percent say
they've got um they at one point had the answer to everything in the universe
and trying to tap into that whole thing to solve the mystery. Can you
can you oh do you mind? Just can you turn down? Turn down
the volume? Volumeating's just a little bit? Um okay, okay, okay,
so better a little yeah, that's that is better. So, um,
can you explain I heard you talk about this download thing before, actually,
I think a few years ago. Can you explain exactly you said you're
at the UFO Congress. Is that when that happened? And can you explain
how that happened and what the experience was like? Well, um, what
happens. It's like when you zone out, when you daydream. And I
actually have a theory that I've developed an analogy which I think is pretty close
to what actually happens. And this gets into I wrote a whole book on
downloads in music. Nobel Prize is art, savants, hypnosis, near death
experiences all and I think it's all the same thing. And the theory goes
like this, This is the way I explain it. The analogy. There
is only light in the universe. There is no darkness. Darkness is not
a thing onto itself. All there is is light, and the farther you
get away from the light, the darker gets. So we as human beings
live on the bottom of the ocean in almost total darkness, and we think
this is what our reality is. We're sort of running around in the dark
and we think this is what it is. And from time to time,
like when I zoned out because I didn't want to be in this colon Andrew's
lecture, I was thinking about going across the river to Bullhead City to go
to the library. I was thinking about going for lunch. I had no
interest in the thing. And that's the whole thing is. It's the ability
to associate, to shut down your left brain, which is my analogy.
And when I went to help put Off, I asked him about remote viewing.
I went to help put Off. I said, hell, I think
it's got to do with left brain, right brain. If you can shut
down the left brain, the rational analytical brain, then you can pop into
this thing, into this sort of a higher level. And I said,
did you ever think about this set with remote viewing? And he just said
he wrote back and he wrote three, chapter six. So I go to
his book and that's chapter six. Is the left brain thing. So in
seventy two they'd already figured this thing out and with help put off with Russell
Tart. And whereas if you look at Evan Alexander who had the near death
experience of neurologists, he says, it's a neuro cortex, the new brain,
the ego brain, the rational analytical. If you can shut down the
neural cortex, then you pop out. So what I say is you're you're
in this darkness. And then like with me, with with daydreaming, or
with people with meditation, hypnosis, drugs, psychedelics, drumming, pain,
there's all these different methods where you can sort of rise up into the ocean
and you go into closer to the light where you can see more, so
you're not in the darkness anymore, and suddenly you pick up like musicians will
pick up these songs and the song comes complete and then they are like them.
For example, give you a quick list of inventions, the scientific method,
the alternating motor, the periodic table, the quantum atom theory, relativity,
laser hologram. All came with these instantaneous sort of boom, either in
a dream or an instantaneous thing where you're in this lighter thing. You're higher
towards the light, you can see more. Suddenly you get the impression of
what's going on, how does it sit together? You go back down into
the darkness, and then you present your thing. I had this dream last
night, I had this song, I had this invention come into my head,
and so that's the way I sort of look at it. It's the
ability to shut down the ego brain, which creates sort of a veil or
almost like uh, you know, with the psychedelics in the fifties, the
Hewlett Packard was using LSD with the with their engineers for creativity, and it's
the whole idea is that if you can, if you can shut down the
neuro cortex or whatever whatever thing is that's blocking and creating the veil, you
can break through the veil. You can pick this stuff up. So and
experiences will talk about this when you get forty two percent of all experiences say
they have mathematical, technical, or scientific material in their head that they did
not learn in school. And for me, it's it's like a no brain
or why would you not talk to these people? Whatever you think, give
them light detectors, whatever you got to do, but to not talk to
people who are claiming to be tapped into the saying because I know of my
own experience, and probably I wouldn't have believed it if I had to have
my own experience, or if I hadn't done these researches on Nobel prizes and
art and songs and stuff. I know this stuff happens, and I think
that's what they're doing. They're being sort of drawn up, and it's almost
like the idea that whatever this phenomena is, whatever this intelligence is, it's
almost like it's in the higher closer to the light, and we're maybe ghosts
and spirits and all this kind of stuff, almost like the if you ever
heard the the the Bashar, the Channeler, the famous alien channeler guy.
At one point he has the expression, we come to you in your dreams,
because now you're in our world, and a lot of experiences will tell
me, oh, I was not abducted. They just come to me in
my dreams. And so it's this whole idea. It's it's the disassociation being
pulled out of your your sort of logical analytical world in this world where you
you tap into this and they move back down so that's that's basically where I
describe what's going on. Wow. Wow, I remember specking with Jack Winer,
I'm sorry, Jim Winer from the alec Ash abduction and he was telling
me about his brother. Jack, one of the people supposedly abducted, became
absolutely brilliant in math. Did you ever hear that part? Yeah, yeah,
Well all four of them were affected. They had them mark the art,
their art change. That's right. It was the same thing. It's
like they were. It was almost like something changed during that period. And
a lot of experiences will describe this. There's the one that that's probably the
most famous. Her name is k mark Um. She's a sort of a
she's a double savant. She's a savant in poetry and a savant in art.
She's the one that painted this famous picture of Jesus in the garden at
Cassemite at eight years old, and it's worth like whatever, you know whatever,
just unbelievable painting. And she describes this experience at five years old where
she actually disappears, where they actually bring the police in and they're looking here
with her dogs and stuff like that. She disappears. So she describes to
her mother that she was taken by Jesus and she was thrown this thousand different
images that she's now starting to paint. And she's about twenty two and she's
painted these unbelievable things. I talked to a woman who contacted me at Eureka
Springs twice. She said that was an abduction. I will guarantee you.
I talked to the kid, I talked to her brother. They described what
was going on, and they describe it as this Jesus experience. And two
years in a row. She came to me said I was here last year,
and then I said to her this year. I said, well,
how do you know this? I mean, how do you know? Were
you the the babysitter or what? And she said, no, they had
this um this book that they were studying the name escapes Him, but it
was it was sort of a channel book that the mother they had a study
group, and that's how she knew this. And she had talked to the
kids and she said, it had this connection. This is where this girl
was getting these these images. And when you look at her painting, I
mean, it's unbelievable. It's like nobody can paint like this girl. I
know, I've seen I've seen her work, and I'm an art or,
so I kind of you know, it is fabulous and incredible that she could
paint, especially starting out so young. Those those type of people always baffle
me. One of the things you talked about, Oh, I think you
said you were talking about the Nator or all Nating current. Maybe was that
I know that Tesla mentioned that he just sort of had a vision on how
that would work and scratch it out on him in the perfect with the guy
and he draws it in the sand. Yeah, he suddenly gets it and
he draws it in the sand. Yeah, that was the That was Tesla
so and a lot of these guys, And that's what it is. It's
like you we sort of think that these guys have high IQs, and it's
it's really not high IQs. It's the ability to run this material. That's
what i'd done because none of the stuff that appeared in my head was stuff
that I had learned. It was nothing news, and nothing was you know,
completely unknown. It was all material that I had. It was like
somebody had taken pieces of three pieces of a puzzle and put them together instantaneously
like that, and suddenly you went, oh, and it suddenly it all
made sense, and definitely think it was was that I'm sorry, like an
epiphany. Yeah, but the key thing was and it's so hard, I
say to people, the hardest thing to describe to people is the absolute certainty.
And if you listen to people talk about downloads, they'll talk about this
absolute certainty. You don't have to check this, you don't have to you
don't have to analyze. It doesn't matter why anybody says this is how it
works. I absolutely knew this how it worked. I was and it did
turn out to be true. The things started, it was almost like a
glasses on it could read the signs. After that, everything started to make
sense once I had that. But it was this bizarre absolute certainty. I
walked around for two days. I was just like in a daze. It
was it was just like just I just amazed how this had come together.
And that's when I started to look. And so when I started looking at
the phenomena, that's when I discovered that yesterday one of the biggest produced songs
of the twentieth century was Paul Paul McCartney and it came in a dream.
And then I realized, Oh, there's something to this, and I started
looking, and the more I look, the more I realized that this is
this is not unusual that people who are creative, and that's why musicians are
all right brain creative people. So if you look at Roger Lear, who
did the implant stuff, the seventeen alien implants, Roger Lear was asked,
what's what's common between all abductees that you've done with the implants. He said,
number one, they're all right brain creative people. And number two,
all the implants are on the left side of the body. And I went
around asking different abductee researchers. Is that true, all the implants on the
left side. And if that's true, and that does seem to be a
pattern, then the beings are not interesting in your left rational, lantlycal brain
because the left side of your body is run by your right brain. It's
completely flipped over, so the left if they're putting the implants on the left
side of the body, they're affecting the right brain, which is the same
one is the inspiration. It's the same one that that artists use. And
it's this idea that if you shut down the left brain, the rational lantilycal
brain. You zone out whether you know whatever you're using, and the right
brain can set a tap into whatever this field is, pull the material into
this dark world that we live in. Amazing. We're coming right up on
the break here in just a minute, so we will. I do want
to talk a little bit more about the Red Star because I want to talk
about what type of you know, what went on with that as far as
the research. So when we come back, we'll talk a little bit about
that, and then we'll get into some other things of course. So you're
listening to kg R A Radio. My guest is Grant Cameron, and we'll
be right back right after these messages. All right, everyone, that's it
for the free part of the show. Remember you can listen to the full
two hour shows and archives for only two dollars or more a month. All
that information is on podcast ufo dot com. And I will be traveling some
more next week. I should be live hopefully on YouTube in Austria and we'll
be recording with Jeremy Corbell as well as Eduardo in the second hour. And
thanks so much for listening, and remember keep your eyes to the sky.