1 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,640 Hello everyone, and welcome to the show. This is Martin Willis with podcast 2 00:00:30,719 --> 00:00:36,159 UFO and just a couple of announcements. This is another prerecorded show. I'm 3 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:42,960 traveling and so this will come out. It's also going to be for people 4 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,799 that like to watch YouTube. It will be video on YouTube. You can 5 00:00:45,799 --> 00:00:52,200 watch it there. And just a quick announcement. On September eighteenth, I 6 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:58,719 am actually going to head up to New Brunswick and go to Stand Freedman's home 7 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,000 and I'm going to do basically retirement show. He's retiring. We know he's 8 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,959 retiring, we don't know exactly when he's retiring. But what I would like 9 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:11,840 to do is I'd like to invite the podcast listeners that normally listen to the 10 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:18,560 show to actually watch that live. It's going to be again on September eighteenth 11 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,719 at six to eight pm Eastern Standard time, and I'll be right there with 12 00:01:22,719 --> 00:01:27,079 Stan at his home and invite people to call in and wish him, you 13 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:32,359 know, a happy retirement. And he's done an awful lot for this field 14 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:34,640 and we will certainly miss him. He's a great guy. I think he's 15 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:40,799 been on the show something like ten times, something like that, and so 16 00:01:40,879 --> 00:01:44,879 I wanted to make sure that I did the last show with him the right 17 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,319 way, and he agreed that I could actually come to his house and set 18 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,319 up and video and record him and also be a podcast as usual. And 19 00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:57,959 I do want to thank everyone that helps out with the show, and anyone 20 00:01:57,959 --> 00:02:00,079 can do that, and all you have to do is go to podcast UFO 21 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:07,319 dot com and that information is right there, and that is going to be 22 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,800 it for me. Alejandro is not doing news of course, because this is 23 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,400 a prerecorded show, but he will be back. I'm going to try to 24 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,840 get him on the September fourth, when I'm going to be in Vienna, 25 00:02:19,879 --> 00:02:23,719 Austria. I know that Jeremy Corbell will be on that show for an hour 26 00:02:23,879 --> 00:02:31,759 and then hopefully the second hour will be a UFO enthusiast ed Wadro, who 27 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:37,479 lives in Vienna. I'm going to be, He's gonna be visiting and hopefully 28 00:02:37,479 --> 00:02:39,599 he'll be on the show, and we don't know what we're going to come 29 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,439 up with, but it should be interesting, to say the least. It 30 00:02:43,439 --> 00:02:47,680 we'll talk about UFOs in Austria and stuff like that. So my guest tonight 31 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,759 is Grant Cameron. He's been a repeat guest. He's always very fascinating. 32 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,599 I got to meet him a few years ago in the Great State of Maine 33 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,879 and anyway, excited to talk to him about a book that he published, 34 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:08,800 but also some research that he's doing. Now. We were talking briefly ahead 35 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:14,639 of the show and it sounds very interesting what he's up to. And we'll 36 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,039 get to that. And welcome to the show. Thanks for having me on, 37 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,800 Martin. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's been a while. I 38 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,159 think it's been a few years since you've been on. Maybe even longer. 39 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:29,479 Find out time flies, isn't it. Yeah. Yeah, So I liken 40 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,479 that I just see in the background on YouTube for those watching on YouTube, 41 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,439 is that a UFO I'm looking at behind you? Yeah, a little abduction 42 00:03:37,479 --> 00:03:40,159 things. Someone gave it to me. Oh it's a painting. What's a 43 00:03:40,199 --> 00:03:43,879 painting? Yeah, yeah, that's nice. It's kind of a cool little 44 00:03:43,919 --> 00:03:47,879 thing. So yeah, right, and you are in Canada and a lot 45 00:03:47,879 --> 00:03:53,759 of people know you from the White House UFO that you you worked on for 46 00:03:53,759 --> 00:03:55,680 a long time, going all the way back to you know, Bill and 47 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,159 Hillary Clinton, and they're involvement. I'd like to talk a little bit about 48 00:04:01,199 --> 00:04:05,560 that. But for the person who most people know who you are, but 49 00:04:05,599 --> 00:04:09,039 real quickly, can you go into your background? I know you had a 50 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,319 sighting. We're going to talk about that, but kind of go into your 51 00:04:12,319 --> 00:04:15,759 background if you would, real quickly. Okay, yeah, sure. For 52 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,399 a lot of researchers with the way it starts to started with me, this 53 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:26,120 is me. This actually starts in February of nineteen seventy five, small town 54 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,040 by the name of Carmen, Manitoba, Canada, just north of the US 55 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,560 border, starts having sightings. The US has just put in the only anti 56 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:40,720 ballistic missile unit that ever goes operational with one hundred new nuclear missiles, and 57 00:04:40,759 --> 00:04:43,600 suddenly, on our side of the border, we start getting these UFO sightings, 58 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,839 and I tell my friends, you know, instead of driving around the 59 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,720 city, which we used to do as young kids, let's go see what 60 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,160 they're looking at. We say, Okay, we're gonna go. We don't 61 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:58,199 go, We don't go. Three months and then this bizarre incident occurs where 62 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,240 a TV studio is trying to film. There's a bunch of TV people out 63 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,800 there trying to film from different networks, and they basically catched this thing, 64 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,560 which I think was basically planned. When I look back, thirty five years 65 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,879 later, they catch this thing jumping off the ground and they filmed this thing. 66 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,120 It goes viral. NBC picks it up, and it's to that point 67 00:05:16,199 --> 00:05:18,800 where I said, my friends going, let's go look at they're looking at. 68 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:24,240 I have no interest. I have interest in near death experiences and near 69 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,000 death studies. I guess which I still have and I'm actually working on right 70 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,120 now. And I was into Edgar Casey seconds, but I was never into 71 00:05:31,199 --> 00:05:36,879 UFOs, could never have thought about extraterrestrials or anything. And so we go 72 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,000 out. We're there for an hour. We drive in this town of Carmen, 73 00:05:41,079 --> 00:05:43,639 out out, in, out, and my friends says, okay, 74 00:05:43,639 --> 00:05:45,800 we'll go back in town one more time. If we don't see anything, 75 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:47,959 let's go home. I said, fantastic, because a total waste of time. 76 00:05:48,319 --> 00:05:53,360 And as we turn to go back in the object ap Pearson left to 77 00:05:53,399 --> 00:05:57,560 the right, it's down low, it's bobbing up and down, and nobody 78 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,800 in the car said, because we had been for an hour, we're going 79 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,240 to like is are we're looking at stars and planets more and is Abuta looking 80 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,120 at it? And nobody knew what they're looking at what everbody was describing. 81 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,279 When we saw it, everybody just said, there it is. Everybody instinctively 82 00:06:09,319 --> 00:06:11,680 knew. There was no doubt this is what everybody was talking about. It 83 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,360 was just so bizarre, and so I sort of fell off the edge of 84 00:06:15,399 --> 00:06:17,959 the earth. Two nights later, I dragged all my friends out there, 85 00:06:18,519 --> 00:06:25,879 and they all take off after an hour. And when it comes the second 86 00:06:25,959 --> 00:06:29,240 night, it's coming right ass the second night, directly at us. And 87 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,759 at that point I was sort of thinking to myself, this is a big 88 00:06:31,759 --> 00:06:34,639 story, and I'm why is nobody doing this story? Why is nobody researching 89 00:06:34,639 --> 00:06:38,480 this thing? Because the rumor was that half the town had seen this thing. 90 00:06:38,759 --> 00:06:41,160 So I started going around and I started interviewing people in the town, 91 00:06:41,199 --> 00:06:45,279 and I put together this manuscript and this guy, I guess about a year 92 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,120 and a half later, I try to get this manuscript published and nobody will 93 00:06:47,199 --> 00:06:50,079 touch this thing. And it was a big story. And the local publisher 94 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,680 here who should have done the story, said to me, mister Cameron, 95 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,600 you may believing this kind of stuff. Count me among the unbelievers. And 96 00:06:56,639 --> 00:06:59,319 I was horrified. I got wow, it's like, this is the biggest 97 00:06:59,319 --> 00:07:02,759 story viewed all these people and all these bizarre stories in this town, and 98 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,199 she wasn't interested at all. And so from that point, I've never really 99 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:13,360 done sightings, have been interested at all. All been interested in is the 100 00:07:13,399 --> 00:07:15,759 second night when this thing was flying by, I was looking at it, 101 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,399 and I've actually just done a paper on this. I was watching this thing 102 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,759 fly away the second night, and I'm going, that could be from another 103 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:26,800 planet. I was just sort of awe struck by this thing. And there's 104 00:07:26,839 --> 00:07:30,680 people yelling and screaming and some guy taking photographs and stuff, and I'm just 105 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,920 watching this thing fly away into the north. I'm thinking, what are they 106 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,759 doing? It's like they weren't doing anything. We're just flying along. I 107 00:07:35,879 --> 00:07:40,399 was like, just like this bizarre and I to this day that I've always 108 00:07:40,439 --> 00:07:45,319 been interested in the whole thing of somebody must know what's going on here, 109 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,480 somebody must know what I saw, somebody must know what this phenomena is and 110 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:54,000 why they're here, and it's all been interested in. So I went through 111 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,360 this thing, and I chased the Canadian government and they were very active from 112 00:07:57,439 --> 00:08:00,959 nineteen fifty to fifty four. I put the manuscript on the shelf. I 113 00:08:00,959 --> 00:08:03,839 actually gave it to my sister, and it was actually gone for twenty five 114 00:08:03,879 --> 00:08:07,279 years. My sister is sort of like a I wouldn't call her a hoarder, 115 00:08:07,319 --> 00:08:11,160 but she's like the family historian, and she kept this manuscript for I 116 00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:15,600 would say thirty years. And then she brought the manuscript back and said, 117 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,040 remember, he gave me this thing, and I didn't even remember. I 118 00:08:18,079 --> 00:08:20,879 remember writing a couple of chapters, I don't remember writing old manuscript. And 119 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,279 so I went after the Canadian government. And as if you know the Canadian 120 00:08:26,279 --> 00:08:31,079 government story, the Canadian government was linked into Vanavar Bush and the defense people 121 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:37,120 and in the United States. So we tracked down through them all the different 122 00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:39,879 US officials that we believe the Canadians were dealing with, and that led to 123 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:45,200 doctor Eric Walker at Penn State University, who chased him AROUNDI at fourteen honorary 124 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,559 doctor Degrees was chairman of the board of the Institute for Defense Analysis, the 125 00:08:48,639 --> 00:08:52,840 top military think tank in the United States, co developer of the homing torpedo, 126 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,639 fifteen years president of Penn State University's Big Ivy League Engineering College, and 127 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:00,440 he knew what was going on, but he didn't want talk about it. 128 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,200 He was classified. He said, I kind of talk about this bugged him 129 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,639 for eight years. I had a team of people that I never really interact 130 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,840 with people. I'm always like, I always had this joke that I stay 131 00:09:07,879 --> 00:09:11,639 one step removed from my victim. So I had a bunch of people said, 132 00:09:11,639 --> 00:09:13,080 oh, I can get him to talk, and I would give him 133 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,960 the phone number. And so a bunch of researchers from around the world, 134 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,679 We're talking to Walker. And I was just basically recording whatever he was was 135 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,000 getting. And after eight years, he said, Okay, that's enough of 136 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,559 this, let's just publish it. And we published a thing and he kept 137 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,399 talking even after we published. It was kind of weird, and that's what 138 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,559 led to the president. Because after Walker died, I believe he died in 139 00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:37,600 ninety four or something, I went to the Eyes and to the Truman Library 140 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,120 because Walker had said that he was going to leave some files from he was 141 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:48,480 the basically assistant Secretary Defense when he was invited to a series of briefings I 142 00:09:48,639 --> 00:09:52,519 right Patterson Air First Base dealing with a crash, recovery and alien bodies, 143 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,519 and he admitted he was there. I really didn't want to talk about it, 144 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,720 but he had. This is when he was this Assistant Secretary Defense for 145 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,639 period of one year, and he said he was going to leave those files 146 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,759 at the Truman Library. So I went to the Truman Library to find those 147 00:10:05,799 --> 00:10:11,080 files with Walker had left there, and the files weren't there. They had 148 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,600 a few files on Walker, but the files we were looking for weren't there. 149 00:10:13,879 --> 00:10:16,919 And it was at that point where I said, man, the president 150 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,840 is the most powerful guy in the world. I he's gotten on what's going 151 00:10:18,879 --> 00:10:22,639 on. So that's when I asked Archive this. They said, well, 152 00:10:22,039 --> 00:10:26,200 so what he got on UFOs And they had a bunch of If you remember, 153 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:31,080 back in fifty two, there was the overflight flight of the capital and 154 00:10:31,159 --> 00:10:35,720 a bunch of people sent in telegrams to the president, don't shoot him down, 155 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,720 mister President, don't shoot him down. And then a week later the 156 00:10:39,759 --> 00:10:43,519 thing flew over again. So they had all those telegrams but really didn't have 157 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,399 that much. I'm going it's kind of weird. And that was in Independence, 158 00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:50,840 Missouri, and the Eisenhart Library is just down the road. It's maybe 159 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:52,879 two hours down the road in Abilene, Kansas. So I said, well, 160 00:10:52,879 --> 00:10:56,440 I'll go to the Eisenhar Library it's pretty close. I'll go down there 161 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,320 and I'll see what's going on there. And there was that point where if 162 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,480 the Eisenhar Library, it's very sort of formal. All the archives walk around 163 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,519 in suits and stuff. It's like really really formal, and you have to 164 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,039 do an interview to get to art to research there. So I went there 165 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,559 and they want to know what it was going to research and all this sort 166 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,360 of stuff, and they had actually done before I got there. I'd sent 167 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:20,440 in this request to research. And at that point they had five five documents, 168 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,240 and one was the famous ci Robertson found Report, which is not it 169 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,279 was authorized under Truman, but it wasn't finished until Eisenher so it's in the 170 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:33,360 Eisenhower Library, so that document is there. But other than that, they 171 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,120 only had five documents. And so I said, well, how many pages 172 00:11:35,159 --> 00:11:37,960 of files have you got and he said twenty eight million pages? And I 173 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,000 went, this is subst wrong here. I got five five documents and it's 174 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,759 twenty eight million pages. Because to me it was such an important subject. 175 00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:50,039 So that's what led me on this track for I guess maybe I guess I 176 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,679 worked on at twenty five years. I chased all the presidents. I tried 177 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,600 to find out which ones that had sightings. I went to almost all the 178 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,159 presidential libraries looking for documents and stuff, and I found a couple of interesting 179 00:11:58,159 --> 00:12:03,279 things, but there really was much there. And then to finish the history 180 00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:07,279 of what happened to me in twenty twelve, I'm watching this lecture by Colin 181 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,279 Andrews at the UFO Congress. Don't want to be in the room, not 182 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,240 really interested in crop circles, only go because Colin Andrews is a major figure. 183 00:12:16,039 --> 00:12:18,960 And that's when I have these download experience where I just boom, all 184 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,639 this stuff comes into my head and basically answers the question that I had in 185 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,879 nineteen seventy five, what is going on? What is this all about? 186 00:12:26,919 --> 00:12:30,600 And it was this whole idea, it's non local consciousness. It's well, 187 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,600 first I was consciousness. Then I realized it was nonlocal consciousness, almost like 188 00:12:33,919 --> 00:12:37,799 you had Jen Hartson on the other week. And that was one of the 189 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:43,279 things that popped into my head was the conversation between ben Rich and Jan Hartson 190 00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:46,919 where he said, how did they get here? How does the proposal system 191 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,240 work? And ben Rich turns around and says, exactly what Walker had said 192 00:12:50,279 --> 00:12:54,200 to us two years before exactly the same thing. He said, ask you 193 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,639 a question, what do you know about ESP And so Walker'd asked at ninety 194 00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:03,200 one. Then Ben Richard asked John Hartson in nineteen ninety three. And when 195 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,679 this all came into my head, this is it. It's this non local 196 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,240 consciousness thing came with absolute certainty, and then I just shifted my focus from 197 00:13:09,279 --> 00:13:13,679 there into trying to deal with the people who are interacting with a phenomena. 198 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:20,039 So I deal a lot with experiencers. I deal a lot of I've tracked 199 00:13:20,039 --> 00:13:22,120 down. I guess about fifty people who flown the craft, how do you 200 00:13:22,159 --> 00:13:24,720 fly the craft? And they're all saying the same thing. And it's this 201 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:31,039 consciousness aspect, which I maintain now is the answer, and that unless you 202 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,600 go down that road to conclude this whole thing, you will never solve the 203 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,440 problem. That is the problem. And you're starting to hear Tom DeLong talks 204 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:43,919 about this. John Alexander's just written a book on consciousness, The Connection of 205 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:48,759 Consciousness. If you look at the whole a tip thing. It started at 206 00:13:48,759 --> 00:13:52,559 Skinwalker Wrench. It didn't start with UFOs, It started with the paranormal. 207 00:13:52,759 --> 00:13:56,480 The portal stuff. And so I've been chasing around Ron Pandolfi, the head 208 00:13:56,519 --> 00:14:01,399 CI guy, the operational guy, and he's been putting this portal thing out 209 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,120 for two years and nothing is traceable. He looks like he's the mad Hatter. 210 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,360 He's just like crazy stuff. But he keeps talking about this portal. 211 00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:11,080 Now John's talking about the portal. Now you hear that, the like put 212 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,600 off and these guys are talking about this, these wormholes the portal, and 213 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,720 that's the whole thing. It's this, this whole idea of consciousness that if 214 00:14:18,759 --> 00:14:22,360 portals are real, the nuts and bolts idea of the universe is in a 215 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,840 lot of trouble. It's it's not nuts and bolts the way we think it 216 00:14:24,919 --> 00:14:28,039 is. And most people that's what they think. It's like land on the 217 00:14:28,039 --> 00:14:30,919 White House lawn, give us the toys and then get the tack out of 218 00:14:30,919 --> 00:14:35,000 here. And that's it's much much more complex than that. And maybe this 219 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,399 is in the end, maybe White Vallet took off because Valet is the guy 220 00:14:37,399 --> 00:14:41,320 that started this old thing, Jack Vallet, this whole thing that I'd be 221 00:14:41,399 --> 00:14:45,919 very surprised if this turns out to be extraterrestrials and that's it. That's my 222 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,080 opinion now. And I used to think Vallet was crazy, but it was 223 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:54,360 the old thing about knowing and believing. So before twenty and twelve, I've 224 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,480 had a lot of beliefs. But when you have a download experience like that 225 00:14:56,679 --> 00:15:00,559 where it comes with absolutely certainty, then you know, it's sort of like 226 00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:01,919 it doesn't really matter what people say. It's almost like when I saw the 227 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,879 UFO, It's like people, I was never interested in sightings anymore because I 228 00:15:05,919 --> 00:15:09,000 know this was not a light in the sky. This was in fairly close 229 00:15:09,039 --> 00:15:15,679 and I had five fairly close observations in seventy five and seventy six. So 230 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,240 it's that difference between knowing that people think, well, you thought you I 231 00:15:20,279 --> 00:15:22,279 believe you saw something else. Well, no, no, I was there. 232 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,639 You're the one that believes. I'm the one that knows. I'm if 233 00:15:24,759 --> 00:15:26,759 if there is such a thing as knowing the people who having the experiences. 234 00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:30,519 So I spent a lot of time with experiencers. What are they saying? 235 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,320 What are they being told? What are the forty two percent that are getting 236 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,320 downloads? What are they being told? In these downloads? Forty percent say 237 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,039 they've got um they at one point had the answer to everything in the universe 238 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,120 and trying to tap into that whole thing to solve the mystery. Can you 239 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:52,200 can you oh do you mind? Just can you turn down? Turn down 240 00:15:52,240 --> 00:16:00,360 the volume? Volumeating's just a little bit? Um okay, okay, okay, 241 00:16:00,559 --> 00:16:04,519 so better a little yeah, that's that is better. So, um, 242 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:10,519 can you explain I heard you talk about this download thing before, actually, 243 00:16:10,679 --> 00:16:15,200 I think a few years ago. Can you explain exactly you said you're 244 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,360 at the UFO Congress. Is that when that happened? And can you explain 245 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:26,559 how that happened and what the experience was like? Well, um, what 246 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,320 happens. It's like when you zone out, when you daydream. And I 247 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,519 actually have a theory that I've developed an analogy which I think is pretty close 248 00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:36,879 to what actually happens. And this gets into I wrote a whole book on 249 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:44,799 downloads in music. Nobel Prize is art, savants, hypnosis, near death 250 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,200 experiences all and I think it's all the same thing. And the theory goes 251 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,200 like this, This is the way I explain it. The analogy. There 252 00:16:51,279 --> 00:16:53,440 is only light in the universe. There is no darkness. Darkness is not 253 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,080 a thing onto itself. All there is is light, and the farther you 254 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,600 get away from the light, the darker gets. So we as human beings 255 00:17:00,679 --> 00:17:04,599 live on the bottom of the ocean in almost total darkness, and we think 256 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,519 this is what our reality is. We're sort of running around in the dark 257 00:17:07,519 --> 00:17:11,160 and we think this is what it is. And from time to time, 258 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,119 like when I zoned out because I didn't want to be in this colon Andrew's 259 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,880 lecture, I was thinking about going across the river to Bullhead City to go 260 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,960 to the library. I was thinking about going for lunch. I had no 261 00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:22,599 interest in the thing. And that's the whole thing is. It's the ability 262 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:27,359 to associate, to shut down your left brain, which is my analogy. 263 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,559 And when I went to help put Off, I asked him about remote viewing. 264 00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:33,519 I went to help put Off. I said, hell, I think 265 00:17:33,559 --> 00:17:34,680 it's got to do with left brain, right brain. If you can shut 266 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:40,079 down the left brain, the rational analytical brain, then you can pop into 267 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,680 this thing, into this sort of a higher level. And I said, 268 00:17:42,759 --> 00:17:45,759 did you ever think about this set with remote viewing? And he just said 269 00:17:45,839 --> 00:17:48,640 he wrote back and he wrote three, chapter six. So I go to 270 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,480 his book and that's chapter six. Is the left brain thing. So in 271 00:17:52,599 --> 00:17:56,640 seventy two they'd already figured this thing out and with help put off with Russell 272 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,839 Tart. And whereas if you look at Evan Alexander who had the near death 273 00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:04,519 experience of neurologists, he says, it's a neuro cortex, the new brain, 274 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,559 the ego brain, the rational analytical. If you can shut down the 275 00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:12,279 neural cortex, then you pop out. So what I say is you're you're 276 00:18:12,319 --> 00:18:17,440 in this darkness. And then like with me, with with daydreaming, or 277 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:22,680 with people with meditation, hypnosis, drugs, psychedelics, drumming, pain, 278 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:26,359 there's all these different methods where you can sort of rise up into the ocean 279 00:18:26,519 --> 00:18:30,000 and you go into closer to the light where you can see more, so 280 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:33,200 you're not in the darkness anymore, and suddenly you pick up like musicians will 281 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:38,440 pick up these songs and the song comes complete and then they are like them. 282 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:45,319 For example, give you a quick list of inventions, the scientific method, 283 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:52,359 the alternating motor, the periodic table, the quantum atom theory, relativity, 284 00:18:52,759 --> 00:18:56,680 laser hologram. All came with these instantaneous sort of boom, either in 285 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,839 a dream or an instantaneous thing where you're in this lighter thing. You're higher 286 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,960 towards the light, you can see more. Suddenly you get the impression of 287 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,559 what's going on, how does it sit together? You go back down into 288 00:19:07,559 --> 00:19:11,200 the darkness, and then you present your thing. I had this dream last 289 00:19:11,279 --> 00:19:12,839 night, I had this song, I had this invention come into my head, 290 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:15,920 and so that's the way I sort of look at it. It's the 291 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,200 ability to shut down the ego brain, which creates sort of a veil or 292 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,359 almost like uh, you know, with the psychedelics in the fifties, the 293 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:29,559 Hewlett Packard was using LSD with the with their engineers for creativity, and it's 294 00:19:29,559 --> 00:19:33,359 the whole idea is that if you can, if you can shut down the 295 00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:37,359 neuro cortex or whatever whatever thing is that's blocking and creating the veil, you 296 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,039 can break through the veil. You can pick this stuff up. So and 297 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,079 experiences will talk about this when you get forty two percent of all experiences say 298 00:19:44,839 --> 00:19:48,359 they have mathematical, technical, or scientific material in their head that they did 299 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,000 not learn in school. And for me, it's it's like a no brain 300 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,559 or why would you not talk to these people? Whatever you think, give 301 00:19:53,599 --> 00:19:56,640 them light detectors, whatever you got to do, but to not talk to 302 00:19:56,759 --> 00:20:00,279 people who are claiming to be tapped into the saying because I know of my 303 00:20:00,319 --> 00:20:03,960 own experience, and probably I wouldn't have believed it if I had to have 304 00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:07,599 my own experience, or if I hadn't done these researches on Nobel prizes and 305 00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:11,160 art and songs and stuff. I know this stuff happens, and I think 306 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,039 that's what they're doing. They're being sort of drawn up, and it's almost 307 00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:19,160 like the idea that whatever this phenomena is, whatever this intelligence is, it's 308 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:26,039 almost like it's in the higher closer to the light, and we're maybe ghosts 309 00:20:26,039 --> 00:20:29,319 and spirits and all this kind of stuff, almost like the if you ever 310 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:34,200 heard the the the Bashar, the Channeler, the famous alien channeler guy. 311 00:20:34,519 --> 00:20:37,960 At one point he has the expression, we come to you in your dreams, 312 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,480 because now you're in our world, and a lot of experiences will tell 313 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,640 me, oh, I was not abducted. They just come to me in 314 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,440 my dreams. And so it's this whole idea. It's it's the disassociation being 315 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:55,440 pulled out of your your sort of logical analytical world in this world where you 316 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,960 you tap into this and they move back down so that's that's basically where I 317 00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:03,400 describe what's going on. Wow. Wow, I remember specking with Jack Winer, 318 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,920 I'm sorry, Jim Winer from the alec Ash abduction and he was telling 319 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:14,279 me about his brother. Jack, one of the people supposedly abducted, became 320 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,960 absolutely brilliant in math. Did you ever hear that part? Yeah, yeah, 321 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,400 Well all four of them were affected. They had them mark the art, 322 00:21:19,519 --> 00:21:22,200 their art change. That's right. It was the same thing. It's 323 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,240 like they were. It was almost like something changed during that period. And 324 00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:32,480 a lot of experiences will describe this. There's the one that that's probably the 325 00:21:32,519 --> 00:21:37,839 most famous. Her name is k mark Um. She's a sort of a 326 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:44,480 she's a double savant. She's a savant in poetry and a savant in art. 327 00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:47,519 She's the one that painted this famous picture of Jesus in the garden at 328 00:21:47,519 --> 00:21:51,559 Cassemite at eight years old, and it's worth like whatever, you know whatever, 329 00:21:51,839 --> 00:21:56,039 just unbelievable painting. And she describes this experience at five years old where 330 00:21:56,079 --> 00:21:59,480 she actually disappears, where they actually bring the police in and they're looking here 331 00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:02,759 with her dogs and stuff like that. She disappears. So she describes to 332 00:22:02,839 --> 00:22:07,400 her mother that she was taken by Jesus and she was thrown this thousand different 333 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,319 images that she's now starting to paint. And she's about twenty two and she's 334 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,799 painted these unbelievable things. I talked to a woman who contacted me at Eureka 335 00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:18,799 Springs twice. She said that was an abduction. I will guarantee you. 336 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,279 I talked to the kid, I talked to her brother. They described what 337 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,279 was going on, and they describe it as this Jesus experience. And two 338 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:27,400 years in a row. She came to me said I was here last year, 339 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,640 and then I said to her this year. I said, well, 340 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,880 how do you know this? I mean, how do you know? Were 341 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,720 you the the babysitter or what? And she said, no, they had 342 00:22:36,759 --> 00:22:41,200 this um this book that they were studying the name escapes Him, but it 343 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,480 was it was sort of a channel book that the mother they had a study 344 00:22:44,519 --> 00:22:47,240 group, and that's how she knew this. And she had talked to the 345 00:22:47,319 --> 00:22:49,559 kids and she said, it had this connection. This is where this girl 346 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,359 was getting these these images. And when you look at her painting, I 347 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,640 mean, it's unbelievable. It's like nobody can paint like this girl. I 348 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,839 know, I've seen I've seen her work, and I'm an art or, 349 00:23:00,319 --> 00:23:04,319 so I kind of you know, it is fabulous and incredible that she could 350 00:23:04,319 --> 00:23:08,720 paint, especially starting out so young. Those those type of people always baffle 351 00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:11,920 me. One of the things you talked about, Oh, I think you 352 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,599 said you were talking about the Nator or all Nating current. Maybe was that 353 00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:22,359 I know that Tesla mentioned that he just sort of had a vision on how 354 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,000 that would work and scratch it out on him in the perfect with the guy 355 00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:29,319 and he draws it in the sand. Yeah, he suddenly gets it and 356 00:23:29,319 --> 00:23:32,039 he draws it in the sand. Yeah, that was the That was Tesla 357 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:33,480 so and a lot of these guys, And that's what it is. It's 358 00:23:33,519 --> 00:23:37,960 like you we sort of think that these guys have high IQs, and it's 359 00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:41,599 it's really not high IQs. It's the ability to run this material. That's 360 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,319 what i'd done because none of the stuff that appeared in my head was stuff 361 00:23:45,319 --> 00:23:48,640 that I had learned. It was nothing news, and nothing was you know, 362 00:23:48,759 --> 00:23:52,720 completely unknown. It was all material that I had. It was like 363 00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:57,000 somebody had taken pieces of three pieces of a puzzle and put them together instantaneously 364 00:23:57,039 --> 00:24:00,200 like that, and suddenly you went, oh, and it suddenly it all 365 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,119 made sense, and definitely think it was was that I'm sorry, like an 366 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,279 epiphany. Yeah, but the key thing was and it's so hard, I 367 00:24:08,319 --> 00:24:12,279 say to people, the hardest thing to describe to people is the absolute certainty. 368 00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:15,000 And if you listen to people talk about downloads, they'll talk about this 369 00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:18,960 absolute certainty. You don't have to check this, you don't have to you 370 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,279 don't have to analyze. It doesn't matter why anybody says this is how it 371 00:24:22,319 --> 00:24:25,599 works. I absolutely knew this how it worked. I was and it did 372 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:26,880 turn out to be true. The things started, it was almost like a 373 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,720 glasses on it could read the signs. After that, everything started to make 374 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,759 sense once I had that. But it was this bizarre absolute certainty. I 375 00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:36,279 walked around for two days. I was just like in a daze. It 376 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,880 was it was just like just I just amazed how this had come together. 377 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,319 And that's when I started to look. And so when I started looking at 378 00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:45,319 the phenomena, that's when I discovered that yesterday one of the biggest produced songs 379 00:24:45,319 --> 00:24:48,839 of the twentieth century was Paul Paul McCartney and it came in a dream. 380 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,799 And then I realized, Oh, there's something to this, and I started 381 00:24:52,839 --> 00:24:55,400 looking, and the more I look, the more I realized that this is 382 00:24:55,559 --> 00:25:00,559 this is not unusual that people who are creative, and that's why musicians are 383 00:25:00,599 --> 00:25:03,599 all right brain creative people. So if you look at Roger Lear, who 384 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,880 did the implant stuff, the seventeen alien implants, Roger Lear was asked, 385 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:15,000 what's what's common between all abductees that you've done with the implants. He said, 386 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,359 number one, they're all right brain creative people. And number two, 387 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:19,599 all the implants are on the left side of the body. And I went 388 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:25,200 around asking different abductee researchers. Is that true, all the implants on the 389 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,599 left side. And if that's true, and that does seem to be a 390 00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:32,960 pattern, then the beings are not interesting in your left rational, lantlycal brain 391 00:25:33,079 --> 00:25:34,880 because the left side of your body is run by your right brain. It's 392 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,359 completely flipped over, so the left if they're putting the implants on the left 393 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,279 side of the body, they're affecting the right brain, which is the same 394 00:25:42,519 --> 00:25:47,680 one is the inspiration. It's the same one that that artists use. And 395 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,240 it's this idea that if you shut down the left brain, the rational lantilycal 396 00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:56,160 brain. You zone out whether you know whatever you're using, and the right 397 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,240 brain can set a tap into whatever this field is, pull the material into 398 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,319 this dark world that we live in. Amazing. We're coming right up on 399 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,599 the break here in just a minute, so we will. I do want 400 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,400 to talk a little bit more about the Red Star because I want to talk 401 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,400 about what type of you know, what went on with that as far as 402 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:18,880 the research. So when we come back, we'll talk a little bit about 403 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,920 that, and then we'll get into some other things of course. So you're 404 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,839 listening to kg R A Radio. My guest is Grant Cameron, and we'll 405 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,880 be right back right after these messages. All right, everyone, that's it 406 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,640 for the free part of the show. Remember you can listen to the full 407 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:44,519 two hour shows and archives for only two dollars or more a month. All 408 00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:48,759 that information is on podcast ufo dot com. And I will be traveling some 409 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:56,599 more next week. I should be live hopefully on YouTube in Austria and we'll 410 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:02,880 be recording with Jeremy Corbell as well as Eduardo in the second hour. And 411 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:19,519 thanks so much for listening, and remember keep your eyes to the sky.