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And the righteous will rejoice when they
see vengeance done. They will bathe their

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feet in the blood of the wicked. Wow, what a horrible book,

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you know. In fact, I
don't think there's a single good thing that

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is exclusively found in the Bible.
If you disagree, we've got open lines,

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call in because the show is starting
right now. WHOA, that's right,

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folks. Today is Sunday, May
twenty first, twenty twenty three,

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and I am your host Secularity,
and joining me today is somebody brand new

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to the wonderful Talk Heathen audience.
It's Tom Benson. What is up?

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Tom? Hey, that's hard.
Thanks for having me. Yeah, I

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am good. I'm excited to have
you on. Man. I know you've

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already been hanging out with us a
little bit here at the ACA. But

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for everybody here that doesn't know about
you, what tell us about yourself?

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Who are you? What do you
do? Why are you here? I

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guess I mean that's a lot of
questions. You don't have to answer all

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of those, so many things things
all at once. Uh. Well,

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I run a podcast called uh We're
found at www dot whoever we got here

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dot com or wherever we go there
dot com. You can get both them

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both from work. But we have
some uh some some similarities parallels in terms

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of the folks that we engage with, where we're talking to people out there

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in the world and great cross over
here. So found myself talking to you

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today and we're dialing in from the
East Coast and the Mountain coast here.

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That's excited to talk to some folks. Yeah, it's gonna be a good

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time, I think, folks.
And remember Talk Heathen is a live call

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in show and we have open lines. We've already got a couple of calls,

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but we have even more lines available, so get those calls in at

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five one two nine nine nine two
four two or from your computer at tiny

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dot cc slash call t H.
And as always, folks, I have

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to remind you because I am contractually
obligated. Talk Heathen is a product of

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the Atheist Community of Austin at five
oh one c three, nonprofit organization dedicated

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to the promotion of atheism, critical
thinking, secular humanism, and the separation

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of religion and government. All very
important things and a wonderful, wonderful organization

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that is promoting them all. So
we are here to do that, folks.

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And again we've got some open lines. But before we grab one of

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these great calls, we are going
to do the Question of the week.

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Talk heathen to me, folks.
We do this every single week. We

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give you a question and we read
out our top three answers from last week.

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So last week we asked if you
had your own circle of hell,

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what would your punishment be? So
these are awesome and I am excited.

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Number three, Chuck Gaido says,
in my circle of hell, in my

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circle of heaven, you get to
toast marshmallows. My circle of hell is

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the same place, but you are
a marshmallow. That's pretty intense. Honestly,

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I don't know about that. I
think I would take being a marshmallow

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just by itself. Maybe not the
toast. Number two we've got from Blake

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Walker. My circle of hell would
be having everybody sit on clouds, playing

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harps and singing praises to yahweh for
all eternity. Yeah, I agree with

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that. Yeah, that does not
sound like a good time. And finally

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number one for last week, we've
got Marcel Jansen's says, version of hell

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where you actually have to read the
software user agreements you checked okay, on

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now, that is diabolical, Marcel, that is diabolical. I yeah,

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if that is what hell is,
I might convert im. I'm not an

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intinit hell yeah right. U Hey, some of those user agreements do feel

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like they're eternity, Like, how
do you pack that much? It doesn't

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matter. We're not going to do
it. We're not going to be But

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we do have a prompt for next
week, folks, so as always remember,

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throw those comments underneath the video,
don't put them in the live chat.

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Put them in the comments of the
video, and we will grab our

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top three. But let me ask
you, Tom, let me ask you

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here. If God favors humans,
why are they so blank? What do

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you think? What do you got? I thought about this one. I

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thought about it a lot, and
I think the question is the question,

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right, the answers in the question, why why are they so blank?

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Oh? Oh you just leave it? Yeah. I think it was easier,

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not just just for me not to
change anything. I like that.

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No, that's that's smart. That's
smart. Halfway though, on one side,

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you got it's nature nurture, and
you don't control the nature part because

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he's just born with that. So
I guess you're not completely blank to some

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degree, but the nurture that seems
like an equally important part. And that's

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that's blanket. So it seems I
do know some blank individuals. I won't

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call them out by name, but
yeah, it's like it's it's it's almost

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like talking to like, uh,
like paint drying on a wall. Sometimes

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they're good people. I swear they
don't do anything bad. They're just not

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interesting at all. So yeah,
I get that. That's that's good.

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Well, if you've got if you've
got a good answer, and I'm sure

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I'm sure some of our wonderful viewers
do, remember throw them in the comment

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section, give us your best answer, and then come back here next week

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for the host to reveal the top
three. So I love this little segment

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that we're doing now. Um,
there's always fun stuff and uh, we

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have a we have a good whacky
bunch of people that watch this show,

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Tom, and they always come up, what was your answer? You know?

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If if God favors humans, you
know, why why are we so

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squishy? Okay? And I mean
this literally think about it. Okay,

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Like with with a very small change
to our genetic code, we could be

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just like a heck of a lot
stronger, you know, I mean,

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just like physically in the sense of
like things wouldn't hurt us, you know,

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and so like why why not just
have just stronger bones? Even,

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like why not just have like less
like stuff that's so you know, like

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one poke to the heart and it's
like done. You know, like the

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brain cannot take a lot of trauma, Like why not just be a little

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bit stronger? God, Like,
I don't know what that's fair, that's

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fair? But there all those people, you know, you see the people

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who get in the action. It's
like the rod went through here and like

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up through his brain. He's okay, yeah, right, but he's part

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of this case study because now he
you know, he doesn't remember what the

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left side of his bodies do,
right, right, right? Yeah.

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And that's another issue too, like
why why is the body? The body

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is just terrible. Honestly, it
is not well designed. It is it

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is crap. Uh yeah, if
you don't know that already, folks,

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um, you might just be younger
than which which is fine honestly, but

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eventually you Yeah, anyway, we're
not going into it. We've got a

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bunch of calls and we are gonna
get to them. And remember, folks,

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if you want to call in five
one two nine nine one nine two

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four two or from your computer at
time you dot cc slash call t H.

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Let's go out to Texas. We've
got John. He him pronouns and

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as a theist and wants to talk
to us a little bit about atheism,

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I think, and how to have
a how to have a discussion. So

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hey, John, you're on with
Secularrity and Tom, what do you got

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for us? I hope you guys
are having a good day. Thank you

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for taking my call. You know
this is your show and I appreciate that

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you're letting me be on it.
Um So, so I haven't watched much

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of the show, um but just
because I don't have much time. But

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I think it's very interesting. But
you guys always have a really good response,

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So I'm not anticipating that anything I
say is going to be new or

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it's going to be like a gotcha. But um, I just was gonna

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try to have a discussion anyways.
Just wanted to progress with that. Um

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So, So, first off,
and I'm so sorry you probably you guys

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probably get this all the time,
UM, but I just want to if

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you could give me like a really
brief description of why you do this show,

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like why do you personally do this
show? Want to have this discussion

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in somewhat of a public spotlight,
and then then if I could have a

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response to that. Sure, Uh, Tom, what what are your thoughts

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man? Why why do you do
this? Why why do you do this

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in your podcast? And what do
you think on that? Yeah? I

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think conversations are really the only tool
that we have to affect change. And

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for myself, um, I come
from a certain standpoint of it's interesting to

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me to learn where other people are
on the spectrum of this crazy thing that

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we call life. Um, you
know, I made some mistakes, I've

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done some good things, and I
guess for me participating in things like this

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with the opportunity to have a conversation
with folks like you John to understand that

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the same question on your side,
why why do we believe the things that

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we believe? And is there a
better way that we could all, um,

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you know, live our lives so
that we can maximize the amount of

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good and minimize the amount of bad
generally, That's that's the idea from my

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side here, So engaging in conversations
and trying to understand and effect change.

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Yeah, and myself nothing to poke
out in that answer. That was really

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good. So so for myself,
John, there's a couple of different reasons.

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One in part, i'd be lying
if I said there wasn't at least

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a little bit of a selfishness to
it. I do just enjoy having difficult

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conversations where two people are laying out
their understandings of a particular nuanced point and

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trying to get to some kind of
middle ground. You know, I do

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really value that. I do also
really value you know, having good reasons

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for accepting certain things, is true. Um On top of that, I

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would say that there's there is a
little bit of that more altruistic feel too,

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which is um me being in the
place where I am in the United

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States, I firsthand have seen some
of the absolute horrible things that happen when

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it comes to you know, bad
epistemology and bad ideologies, and so I

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want to minimize that is as much
as possible. So yeah, I think

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I think both of us Tom and
I are kind of in a similar a

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similar boat. So okay, well, yeah, those were like really really

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awesome responses. I was kind of
hoping you'd say something that I that I

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could like take a job out,
but those were just so I guess like

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a lot of times, a lot
of times what happens is I think that

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people try to have UM. So
like the idea of UM God or a

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creator existing or not existing UM is
strictly in my opinion, I'm not an

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intellectual, but it's strictly a a
philosophical question, right. So so what

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I was going to say that a
lot of times you can I can I

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jump in, hang on, hang
on real quick, John, real quick,

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John, Just I just want to
jump in real quick because I think

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I think in general what you said
there is is probably accurate. But there

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are certain claims that when made about
a god, it wouldn't be just philosophical,

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right, Like if explicitly somebody said
God made my car start that,

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that's something that's very very physical and
would very much be something that we could

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test, right. But I think
a lot of what goes on in these

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conversations is more philosophical, but not
all of uh sure sure sure, um

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okay yeah. So but anyways,
what ilse kind of trying to get at

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is a lot of people I think
try to and this isn't the brunt of

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what I was trying to talk about. I don't want think too much time,

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um, but a lot of people
um or who who have these conversations

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it's about like separation of church and
states, for example, which I which

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I would absolutely agree with. But
but but this issue has nothing to do

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with uh, you know, the
possibility of there being a creator or not

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being a creator. Um. You
know what I mean, Like I believe

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in a creator wholeheartedly. It's it's
the most important aspect of my life.

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But I absolutely see the point in
a separation of church and state, you

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know what I mean? So I
feel like that should be more in a

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political realm, not in like this
more philosophical realm. And I know it's

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it's it's convoluted. So it's like
not entirely fair for me to say that,

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But do you see do you see
the point that I'm making? Yeah,

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I think I think in a little
bit here and and I'm gonna throw

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it to you here in a second
time to get your thoughts, um in

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in part I understand what you're saying
about the difference between like a political and

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philosophical you know category when it comes
to that specific discussion of separation of religion

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and government. Um. That being
said, I do see how it overlaps

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on both sides, and so I
don't know that it could exclusively sit into

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one category or the other. Um. I do think. I do think

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though, again kind of what it
sounded to me like the core of what

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you were getting at there, John, regarding you know, maybe it's more

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important that we discuss with people who
are trying to get rid of that separation

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of church and state and try and
you know, have conversation with them that

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convinces them that's not the right path
before we go down that route of of

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you know, really harping on whether
or not their particular version of God exists.

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For me personally, the way I
look at it is this, if

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you're a god believer, if you're
a religious person of some kind, or

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you have some belief in some supernatural
something, you aren't as much of a

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threat in my eyes in terms of
the general well being of people across this

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country and world as the individuals who
are actively trying to put in place laws

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that specifically target and harmful. Right. And so, if if you're somebody

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who if you're somebody who stands up
and says, you know, hey,

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look I'm I'm all in favor of
trans rights. I also happened to be

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Jewish, Like, brother, you're
on my team. You know you're you're

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on my team because unfortunately there are
so many others out there, um that

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use that religion to to cause such
drastic harm. Um. But yeah,

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let me let me throw it over
to Tom real quick, John, and

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then we'll get your thoughts. Okay, Well, well, I just wanted

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to do like a really I can
I can we or you can say something.

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I'm not too but it seems like
you know you you have every right

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you know, to say what you
just said about that. I just kind

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of wanted to briefly, um,
express my desire that I think these things

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should be two separate categories. But
it's not that important to me. Could

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I get maybe more to like the
meat of what I wanted to talk about?

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Sure, go ahead, and now
let I'll let Tom respond to that.

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Yeah, go ahead, okay,
Um. So I just I just

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wanted to say, I think in
modern times, um uh, I think

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the assumption is that atheism has the
intellectual high ground. Um. And you

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know, there's a lot of good
reason for that too. And there's a

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lot of things that religious people have
done um to kind of uh to you

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know, to kind of allow that
to happen. Um. But I just

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wanted to say, I think it's
it's it's a lot more uh complex than

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a lot of the arguments that atheists
make today. So for example, there

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there's one group UM on one side, and all they have is their subjective

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perception, right, and and they
view the world through this. Okay,

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So they they these groups of people
think think there's more than meets the eye.

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They they realize that they're in existence. They realize that they didn't create

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themselves. Um. It's it's a
complex world that we live in. Um,

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it's a complex world within ourselves,
right, and our thoughts and things

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like this. So they say,
okay, look, I'm not in control

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of myself. I didn't create myself. I choose to have the belief,

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not the knowledge, but the belief
that there is something greater than me,

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there's something that created me. Um. There's of course, there's no scientific

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objective knowledge to support this, um. But yet this is the beliefs of

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that group of people. So then
there's another group of people that say,

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no, look, this natural world, this world of matter, that's all

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that there is. Uh, that's
that's all that there that there can be

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there, there's there's Um, there's
no reason to say because if there's anything

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more than meets the eye. But
but the problem is is that this group

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of people, Um, there's no
objective scientific evidence to support this claim either.

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Um. And I'm speaking in a
very broad sense. Um. Yeah,

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yeah, no worries. But hang
on, hang on talking, Hang

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on just a second, John,
because you've you've given us a lot of

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good stuff there, and I think
I think that's worth um just kind of

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saying some stuff back because I again, I thought it was a lot of

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it was really good. Um,
Tom, give us give us your thoughts

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on that real quick, and then
we'll kick it back over to you.

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John. Sure. I think it
comes down to John, and I appreciate

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that you're coming at this from a
really rational standpoint that I think there's there's

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variants here, right, But from
my perspective, I imagine from SRS perspective

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as well, we're not making the
claim but like there's nothing nothing out there.

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We're just saying we don't know,
right, You are You're You're coming

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at this from an angle of like
you you were born in this certain geographic

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erica. I could make a number
of predictions based on the zip code you

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were born in about your characteristics,
one of them being religious views. Sounds

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like you're dialing from the US,
like, oh, Texas right there,

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right, So like the odds that
you're not Muslim, there's somewhat high there,

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right. I don't want to get
into specifically what I am, but

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but I wouldn't explicitly, uh say
that that's correct statement. Well, so

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okay, let me let me shout
a little bit, hang on a second.

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No, no, no, no, all good, all good,

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John, no worries. Just give
me a second here, because I thought

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I think there was a good bit
of stuff that um you had said that

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I do think is worthwhile to just
kind of touch on a little. Um

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one of the things you were making
a distinction between the groups of people,

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and you were saying, basically,
there's this one side that kind of still

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has this feeling that there's something else
out there, even though they don't necessarily

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have, um, you know,
the total concrete, you know, solid

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bullet point proof for it. And
then on the other side, you've got

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these people who are like saying,
oh, no, it's probably not that

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thing, you know, um,
but they don't have anything like hardcore solid

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proof that, like says counter And
I think that's a really interesting point.

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And the reason that I say that
is because there are so many things for

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every single one of us right here
right now, Like I guarantee this,

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Okay, there is something that you
don't believe in, John, and somebody

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else in your life does and they
don't have any good reason to believe it.

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And you know that, you know
that the evidence is not there to

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be accepting the fact that leper cons
are writing unicorns every Thursday from seven pm

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to nine pm down the main street
in your town, right like there,

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there is no reason to accept that. But somebody out there believes that.

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And my question for you is,
did you ever once ask yourself if you

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had that concrete proof that disproved that, and most likely not, So go

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ahead, don't I get what you're
saying? So I would say that the

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idea of there being a creator or
not a creator, it's by definition it's

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a lot more abstract than some thing
as literal as a leprocn riding unicorn,

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right, So that's a that's a
that would be a part of material existence.

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So it's it's a little bit different
than saying something created me and that's

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my ultimate truth. Right, So
that's that's fair. But the issue is

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if you if you make something so
ambiguous, if from the beginning by definition,

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something is so ambiguous as to be
indistinguishable from all of these other things,

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then you're in the same boat as
the unicorn and the LEPrecon. You're

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in that exact same boat because what
you have is on one side, you

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have something that is extremely well defined
that has absolutely no supporting evidence, and

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on the other side, you have
something that is so ambiguous that either anything

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out there could be evidence or you
just have nothing. And so again you're

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you're kind of in that same boat, right, So um yeah, so

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yeah, I know I would disagree
with you because it's kind of just an

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unfortunate well unfortunate or fortunate you know, we don't truely understand. But the

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I guess the hard reality is that
you know, we the objective truth,

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objective reality. Um, it's gonna
be abstract. Regardless of what that reality

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is, it's gonna be abstract.
You know, I didn't invent that.

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I didn't decide that. Um.
You know, however, the truth with

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a capital t um actually uh is
uh, it's gonna be pretty darnick abstract,

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right, So so we can't just
say, oh, it's abstract.

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So therefore, um, you know, because because whether there's a creator or

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not a creator, we are dealing. This is a discussion of the abstract.

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So I just I don't really like
that argument of saying, oh,

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if something is abstract, then you
know that just isn't gonna work, do

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you know what I mean? Yeah, real real quick, Tom, I'm

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sorry, I know, I know, just just real quick, because what

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I said wasn't that it was abstract, right. It wasn't that it just

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is ambiguous. It is that,
by by design, it is purposefully so

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abstract or ambiguous as to make it
almost impossible to fully distinguish if something is

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actually in support or against it.
Like when people say things like, well,

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God is just love, Well that's
nonsense, because we understand what love

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is. At least to a degree. Love is still ambiguous and abstract,

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but at least has defining characteristics.
And when you just interchange other ambiguous things

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with that, that's where I think
the difficulty comes in. But I'm sorry,

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I've been talking too much. Let
let me let me let Tom come

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in for a second. No,
I think you guys hashed it out like

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they were just if you're making the
words meaningless, like you just keep going

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down and say God's God's just whatever, like okay, Like sure, but

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we still don't have really good reasons. I'm with you. Maybe there's something

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I don't know, but I'm not
going to call the ball right now because

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I don't. I just don't have
any good reasons. And I've taken enough

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hallucinogens to know that you can be
tricked pretty easily. Yeah. Man,

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sure that's a good point. Sure, so here, I'll ask this question,

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So, like what percentage of so
here? The reason that I wanted

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to talk about this, and I
know this is an entirely fair because this

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isn't the premise of this show,
but it's the premise of the Atheist Experience

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show, is that, um,
you know, it's it's proved me,

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that proved to me that a God
exists, Right, that's the premise.

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But so what I'm trying to say
is that that's, um, that's a

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dishonest premise because both arguments, either
for a creator or for a lack of

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creator, are on even on an
even playing field, so to speak.

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So does that make sense? Because
okay, so yeah, objective truth do

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00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:30.079
you think? No, just let
me ask this question, please, please

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please. I feel like I've been
pretty respectful to you guys. Yeah,

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00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:37.640
you've been just flying John, go
ahead. So what percentage of objective truth

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do you think, uh, you
or just the general public uh is aware

336
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:44.359
of? Like what if you had
to put up? I have no idea

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00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:48.400
and I don't know how to look
calculate that. I don't think there's a

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00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:52.039
way to calculate that. We could. We could, we could wax philosophically

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as we sit in our basement smoking
dubes, bro, But like that is

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unimportant in my opinion, unless you
can justify us to why that would be

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super important. Well, it's important
because the whole the whole importance of this

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00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:08.480
discussion, does it not? Well
you cut out a little bit. Let

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00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.839
me let me clarify just a bit. If the question that you're asking has

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to do with the amount of objective
capital ty outside of you and me truth

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that I tom, you or the
collective humanity currently possesses. I just don't

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see how that is valuable at all, because if the answer is ninety nine

347
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percent, that tells us nothing about
the one percent, can't make any claims.

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If the answer is one percent,
then it still tells us nothing about

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the ninety nine percent and we can't
make any claims. So in either boat,

350
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no matter what the amount of knowledge
is that we collectively hold, it

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00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.599
doesn't change anything about the knowledge that
we don't hold, Like, it's still

352
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not knowledge that we have. Point
my point is is that everything that we

353
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think that we see it comes from
a subjective perception, that comes from subjective

354
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.160
Okay, so we have somewhat of
a grass each individual. I was a

355
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largecraft on subjective experience. But these
discussions, so you're cutting in a little

356
00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:15.599
bit in and out, John,
I could just be a connection thing.

357
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If you could just say that real
quick again, and then we'll probably let

358
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:19.599
you go here in a set because
we've been talking for a good minute and

359
00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:22.200
it's been a good call. But
finish up that thought and then I'll let

360
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:26.480
Tom kind of say some stuff.
So so well, I just I strongly

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disagree with the premise that that thinking
about that about what aspects of objective truth,

362
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we understand what we can comprehend.
You know, I disagree that that's

363
00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:42.200
unimportant. I think that's the most
important thing. Everything that we understand is

364
00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:48.160
through subjective truths, subjective experience,
Right, And then we try to portray

365
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:52.599
based off of that some sort of
objective reality. And you're saying that that

366
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:55.400
doesn't matter, But then how can
we have a kind of discussion if that

367
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:56.720
doesn't matter? Isn't that the whole
point? Well? In fairness, what

368
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I said specifically was that the amount
of objective truth that we don't currently possess,

369
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how large or small that is,
isn't important for the objective truth that

370
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we do possess or for understanding that
objective truth we don't possess. Does that

371
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.480
make sense? Like if we don't
if we don't know fifty percent of a

372
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:18.400
book, we can't make any claims
about that book if we if we,

373
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:22.440
on the other hand, don't know
only one percent of that book, guess

374
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what we still can't do about that
one? For said, so it just

375
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.680
doesn't matter, Okay, Well,
it definitely matter. It definitely matters.

376
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:32.680
So for example, if we could
say, oh, we only know one

377
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percent of and I mean I mean
consciousness, I mean time space. If

378
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:38.960
we only understand I would say it
would be point zero zero zero counts of

379
00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:44.759
zeros. And if that is true, then we are inevitably on a level

380
00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:48.200
playing field with our adversary, with
our with our intellectual adversaries. When having

381
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.200
the discussion about a creator or a
lack of a creator, does that make

382
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:55.599
sense? No? No, no, no. So it's like, it's

383
00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:59.400
the premise that you're talking about.
It sounds like your thing is I you

384
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:04.359
disagree with the premise that you have
to provide evidence for a claim to believe

385
00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:08.920
that claim. Right. The atheist
experience isn't making the argument of we believe

386
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.119
this negative claim. They're saying nothing, right, I have no reason to

387
00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:15.960
believe the thing that you're saying.
So you I can just make all these

388
00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:19.200
things like the reason why your your
argument doesn't make sense. It's the same

389
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:22.559
reason as if I believe any other
thing. I think it's Hercules in Zeus

390
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:26.680
and like all of that. Why
does that not make sense? Like it

391
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:30.440
can the atheists not say, like
I need evidence for this right? It's

392
00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:33.200
this it's the same thing. Of
course, of course you can say that.

393
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:34.799
Yeah, no, that's totally fair. But what I'm saying is that

394
00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:41.440
you have a subjective truth that isn't
backed by objective truth. I have a

395
00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:45.319
subjective truth that also isn't backed by
an objective truth. So I'm just trying

396
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:48.279
to say we're on an even playing
field. That's the only person. No.

397
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:51.920
No, But because I'm not making
a we're not making a positive assertion

398
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:55.000
about something, right, right,
So you don't need we don't need to.

399
00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:56.599
I don't need to prove something that
I'm not trying to prove. I'm

400
00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.279
not trying to prove anything. We're
not have not saying the same thing,

401
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:04.519
just swapping out X. You're not
saying I believe X. Yeah, And

402
00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:10.240
my response to that is I believe
negative X. Like that isn't necessarily If

403
00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:14.279
if that were the case, I
would agree. But if the case is

404
00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:18.200
one side says I think leprecrons are
writing unicorns down the main street of my

405
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:22.599
town from seven to nine pm,
and the other side says, I don't

406
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.519
believe that. Here's what I don't
believe. I don't believe unicorns are writing

407
00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:29.400
Like I'm not saying that. You
just haven't given me any any of these

408
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:33.039
unicorn videos. But I think honestly, John, I just ask one more

409
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:36.240
question. I'm sorry, Yeah,
yeah, no, go ahead. We've

410
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:37.440
been on a call for a bit, but yeah, finish up here and

411
00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:41.319
we'll go on now. So are
you not making the claim for a lack

412
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.720
of a creator? Then I take
the stance, And this is me personally,

413
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:48.440
John, this is not everybody,
Okay, I personally take the stance

414
00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:55.680
to say I accept the negative claim
that God does not exist. For every

415
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:59.400
version of God I have ever been
described, every single one out there fails

416
00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:03.480
logically or does not have any evidence
to meet the burden of proof. Is

417
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:07.799
it possible that there is a version
of God out there that ontologically one hundred

418
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:11.599
percent exists that I have never heard
of. Yes, yes, that is

419
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:17.799
possible. I leave that open.
But every single version of God that I

420
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:22.920
have ever been described, I take
that hardcore stance of saying I do not

421
00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:26.519
accept that it exists, and I
do believe that I have reasons to point

422
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:30.799
to for that, whether it's whether
it's a logical inconsistency or a just lack

423
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:34.000
of any you know, determining evidence
that would push it over that line.

424
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:37.519
So and that's jets that again,
that's just to me. Maybe not everybody

425
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:40.839
takes that, so maybe it's Yeah, it sounds like maybe the issue is

426
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:44.079
that we agree a little bit more
than dreeless, which is often the Hey.

427
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:45.759
But that's good, John. I
think that's a great faking place to

428
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:49.960
stop. Man. I love ending
on a high note and some agreement.

429
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:52.839
So thank you so much, by
the way, John, and please do

430
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:57.119
call us back in next week or
in the future, because I think this

431
00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:00.640
was a good discussion. So yeah, maybe you can delve deeper into um,

432
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.839
like what you were just talking about
of like why you dispute all those

433
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:07.920
Yeah, yeah, I'd absolutely love
to do that. But yeah, I

434
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:10.799
appreciate you guys. This is great. You guys have good lines. Thanks

435
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:12.119
to you, John, Yeah,
we do. That was good. That

436
00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:15.480
was a good way to start this
show. I always love a call like

437
00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:18.759
that, um and I do.
I think I think he's right. I

438
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:23.599
think there is oftentimes more, you
know, both sides, both both Interlockets

439
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:29.160
agree on than disagree, and I
think it's valuable for us to point that

440
00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:32.119
out. You know. Yeah,
I think the only disagreement there is like

441
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:36.160
how much we we agree? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you agree.

442
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:37.759
We're just trying to God, come
on, you're with us here we're gonna

443
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:44.359
disagree to agree. Wait a second, well, we still have open lines,

444
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:48.440
folks. So remember if you have
some awesome thoughts and you want to

445
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.839
get in today, you can do
it very easily five one two nine two

446
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:56.440
four two from your phone or from
the computer Tiny dot CC slash call t

447
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:02.759
H. And before we grab those
next calls, I have got to tell

448
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:07.759
you about some awesome ways you can
support Talk Heathen and the ACA. First

449
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:11.359
off, folks, merch Okay,
there is merch on March on March on

450
00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:15.680
merch, and this month is actually
a little bit special. We are bringing

451
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back the top three designs as rated
by you, the wonderful fans, for

452
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:23.839
the month of May only. So
if you missed out on any one of

453
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these great shirts, any one of
these great designs, now you can get

454
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them. Okay, but they're only
going to be around for like another week

455
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.319
or so, okay, so you
got to get there quick. And we

456
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:38.079
are even giving you ten percent off
your purchase by using the code favorites at

457
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:42.240
checkout, So tiny dot cc slash
merch ACA and you can get all of

458
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that now. Also, folks,
don't forget go ahead and like the video

459
00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:52.400
and subscribe to the channel already,
enable those notifications, and comment below on

460
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.000
things you like, things you didn't
like. You know, Elliott sr.

461
00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:00.000
Talks too much. All fine things. We accept them. And in fact,

462
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:07.319
I think I think there's a special
announcement something about our subscribers. We're

463
00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:11.640
like, we're we're like almost at
ninety k or something. I mean,

464
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:15.640
we are getting up there. I
apologize crew, I had that ready and

465
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:18.839
then I lost that. I forgot
the exact number, So they will get

466
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:21.960
that to be I am sure,
because they are wonderful. But we have

467
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:26.039
been growing and it means the freaking
world to us, folks. So definitely,

468
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:30.759
please if you have not already subscribe
to the channel. It's so easy,

469
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:34.119
you know, Yes, eighty nine
point two thousand, we are almost

470
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:38.119
at ninety k. That is so
freaking awesome that just honestly, it just

471
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:41.759
makes me so happy with that though. I gotta tell you, if you

472
00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:45.400
want to go above and beyond,
you sure can. You can become a

473
00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:49.839
channel member just by clicking the joint
button below. You can get awesome sweet

474
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:55.200
custom chat emots, and you will
help perpetuate the mission of Talk Heathen and

475
00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:57.799
the atheist community of Austin, So
any of our wonderful members out there,

476
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:03.279
go ahead and throw those beautiful emotes. Get up everybody's face in there.

477
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:06.799
I think Christy's face is down there, My face is down there. There's

478
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:08.759
a whole bunch of faces, so
just throw them all everywhere you go.

479
00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:14.160
I am so sorry. Mods,
I poll and finally send a super chat

480
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:17.599
with a question or comment and we
will read as many as we can.

481
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:21.759
And in fact, we've already got
a couple coming in with four ninety nine

482
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:26.279
from the wonderful Greg Markowski says,
thanks SR and Tom for the show multitasking

483
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:30.240
today and you guys are part of
the mix. Well, thank you so

484
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:34.319
much. Greg. We do appreciate
always you are here supporting and we have

485
00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:41.079
a member for eighteen months, Yasmin
meadow Flower. That is freaking awesome.

486
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:47.079
We absolutely appreciate that. Please show
off to everybody else in the chat,

487
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:51.200
Yasmin, and just throw in as
many of those emotes as you want.

488
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:56.559
I give you permission, and again
I apologize to the YouTube. So let's

489
00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:00.119
go and grab another call before all
of the mods in the chat start sending

490
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:07.279
me hateful messages. We actually have
a super cool call coming to us from

491
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:12.240
California. Matt he him has a
little bit that he wants to talk about

492
00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:15.480
a pretty cool organization. I think, Hey, Matt, what's what do

493
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:19.480
you got for us today? Hey, thanks for having me on and thanks

494
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:22.440
for saying that I'm a super cool
call that makes me feel super cool.

495
00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:27.039
Good good. Well, yeah,
I'm I'm Matt. I'm with the I'm

496
00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:31.200
a national organizing manager for the Secular
Student Alliance, and thank you so much

497
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:37.680
for having me on to talk about
our Secular Student Alliance National Conference. It's

498
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:40.960
coming up in Saint Louis on June
sixteenth through eighteenth, so and less for

499
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:45.480
the month. It's going to be
at the University of Missouri, Saint Louis.

500
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:50.720
And this is our first conference back
in three after three years of lockdown.

501
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:55.240
Wow, we have a really amazing
lineup. I'm really I'm really proud

502
00:32:55.240 --> 00:33:00.240
of our lineup with speakers including of
course our own students seekers from a number

503
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:05.920
of campuses around the country. But
we've also got Senator Megan Hunt, she's

504
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:13.359
as Nebraska state Senator and atheists out
in proud atheist in there in Nebraska.

505
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:20.319
We have from around our secular communitor
community. We have Andrew Seidel, Sarah

506
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:25.279
Levin, Sam McGuire of American Atheist, Brian Silva of American United for Separation

507
00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:30.599
Church and State. We've got really
like a really pretty amazing lineup, like

508
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:32.960
I said, I'm quite proud of. And this is an opportunity not just

509
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:36.599
for students. You know this.
Of course, we're the Secular Student Alliance

510
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:40.559
where we're focused on students, but
we have our community members from around our

511
00:33:40.599 --> 00:33:45.960
secular community joining and our activist partners. You know, not everybody in our

512
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:50.920
lineup, not everybody coming summer at
THEIST two. And there are allies just

513
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.680
as you were talking about. Um, if somebody is right alongside with me

514
00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:58.480
defending trans rights and defending the semporary
of church and State, I don't care

515
00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:00.799
what else you believe, you're my
ally. And so we have this very

516
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:04.839
excited about this conference. Um.
Like I said, it's June sixteen through

517
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:08.639
eighteenth, and our deadline to register
though is this Wednesday, is May twenty

518
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:13.400
fourths. So if you're interested in
going, go to Secular Students dot org

519
00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:17.159
click on our twenty twenty three National
Conference tab and get all your information.

520
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:20.679
And we do have some travel grants
still available, so if you get it

521
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:22.360
in real quick. If you're a
current student, we can also be able

522
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:27.880
to travel plance. But that's why
it's still so far. Is that is

523
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:31.719
freaking freaking awesome. And yeah,
if any of our viewers out there are

524
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:37.199
not familiar with the Secular Student Alliance, first off, there's actually some really

525
00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:43.400
cool ACA shows where they did them
live with some local SSA chapter I believe,

526
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:47.280
So go check that out, super
super great episode. But also please

527
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:52.719
go out there and look this organization
up, you guys again, Secular Students

528
00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:58.719
dot org. It is an absolutely
phenomenal, phenomenal group of people nationwide who

529
00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:01.199
are fighting for some real, really
great things. Um, and we need

530
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:05.320
all the help we can get.
Um. We won't keep you on too

531
00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:09.440
long, Matt, but tell us
what is one of your favorite things about

532
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:13.840
working with the SSA. Thank you, and you know, thanks for that

533
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:16.719
ringing endorsement. I think, hands
down, my favorite thing about working with

534
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:23.519
SSA is getting to know and helping
to develop the leadership skills of just really

535
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:28.280
amazing numbers of our secular community.
You know, we really like to be

536
00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:30.519
We're not just at universities. We
are at high schools, we are at

537
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:36.320
middle schools, we're even making for
reas into elementary schools, and we are

538
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:42.840
away for secular and just you know, kids and students that want to question

539
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.199
their religious beliefs. We're a place
like we're we're at home for you to

540
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:50.400
do that and have that open discussion. And the leaders that emerge are becoming

541
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:54.440
leaders in our secular community, in
our broader activist community, and so just

542
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:59.360
being able to be a part of
that is what I love, and that's

543
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:01.280
you know, that's why we're having
this conference to help develop that. And

544
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:05.719
then also I want to give a
quick plug for our scholarships program, because

545
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:12.440
we are we have our scholarships applications
open. It's the link for that is

546
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:16.239
right next to the conference link on
our website Secular students dot org. And

547
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:22.079
please apply for our our scholarships.
And that's for any activist who's involved in

548
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:29.679
depending the separation of church and state
as well as supporting our secular values and

549
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:32.760
a broad and a broad wage range
of ways. Sorry, hey yeah,

550
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:36.239
heck yeah, Well one more time, Matt, before we kick you off,

551
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:38.079
give us, give us those dates, give us that website, tell

552
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:43.519
us where it's going to be and
uh and and hopefully the audience will just

553
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:47.960
be packed full of talk heathen an
AXP fans. So yeah, yeah,

554
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:52.679
thank you so again. It's June
sixteenth through eighteen in Saint Louis, Missouri

555
00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:57.480
or the date at the University of
Missouri Saint Louis campus. And then the

556
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:01.079
register registration deadline is May twenty fourth. Is this Wednesday? See, you've

557
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:06.000
got to get your registration in before
me twenty fourth. We also, like

558
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:07.719
I said, have those travel grants
available. If you put on that application,

559
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.320
we'll reach back out to you about
how we can help you get there

560
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:14.239
if your currency. Heck, that
is awesome, Matt. Well, thank

561
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:17.119
you so much for calling us today. Man. Again, I think the

562
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:22.719
SSA is an absolutely wonderful organization,
and I'm glad after three years of not

563
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:25.840
being able to do this in person, you guys are getting back at it.

564
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:29.960
So thanks so much, Matt.
I really appreciate y'all. Thank you

565
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:32.840
alrighty man, Yeah, that is
good. What do you what do you

566
00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:38.159
think about that? Tom? Is
there a need to have this secular Student

567
00:37:38.199 --> 00:37:42.119
Alliance? I mean, why why
should that be in schools? Why is

568
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:45.119
that important? Because the alternative the
default is like that, there's so many

569
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:49.559
other organizations that rally around this,
and I think to John's point earlier,

570
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:52.400
it's like it's like really difficult to
rally around a called It's like probably not

571
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:58.320
really like what are you saying about
separation of church and state? There you

572
00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:00.840
go like that that's an issue that
we just need to do because you don't

573
00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:04.960
every It's like John was saying,
we all agree on this thing. We

574
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:08.599
don't want everybody with all these different
view saying it needs to be mine.

575
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.880
And here in the US we have
that to some degree, like the default

576
00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:15.760
got on the money and all this
nonsense. It's difficult, but I think

577
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:20.119
we all agree did we want?
Did you? Whether you believe the creator

578
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.480
thing or not, it still doesn't
mooove the needle, I guess, right,

579
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:27.000
right right, And again we are
all big fans here of separation of

580
00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:31.239
Church and State. Again, folks, an absolutely wonderful organization if you can

581
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:37.159
please go out there and support again
Secular Students dot Org. So yeah,

582
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:42.559
we're always big fans of working with
other wonderful organizations like them. So now

583
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:47.280
I have to let you all know
about another wonderful way you can support us

584
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:52.440
here at talk Heathen and the ACA. You can support us on Patreon tiny

585
00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:58.920
dot cc slash Patreon t H,
and you could get your name read out.

586
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:02.599
We always read the top five every
single time are doing this awesome show.

587
00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:06.960
So if you want to be in
those top five, you know how

588
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:10.039
to do it. Tiny dot cc
slash, Patreon t H. And the

589
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:16.760
ACA has this awesome channel that houses
all of these wonderful shows in audio podcast

590
00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:22.119
form only at tiny dot cc slash
ae N Podcasts. And so if you

591
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:25.280
want to hear our beautiful voices but
not see our beautiful faces, honestly,

592
00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:28.920
it's okay. We won't cry about
it. I mean I might a little,

593
00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:30.000
but it'll be off camera so you
won't have to. But again,

594
00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:35.519
tiny dot cc slash a ed podcast. I love that channel because I normally

595
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:38.079
just let it just play in the
background, wild and stuff. And you

596
00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:43.960
can also become part of the Talk
Heathen community in our fan run facebook page

597
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:47.880
at tiny dot cc slash fbt h
G. There is always wonderful things going

598
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:52.800
on there. There's always a phenomenal
group of people that are out there talking

599
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:59.599
about all things God and religion and
science and supernatural and all that wonderful stuff.

600
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:01.840
And if you have thoughts or would
like to engage in those conversations.

601
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:06.360
That is a great place to do
it. And in case you didn't know

602
00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:09.800
this talk, he then has a
TikTok and we will actually be going live

603
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:14.840
every time right before this show.
So every Sunday, like right before this

604
00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:17.079
show starts at one pm Central.
Go check us out on TikTok, you

605
00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:21.920
guys, and if you're not already
subscribed, go ahead and do that because

606
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:24.800
that helps us get the message out
there. I think we had Richard god

607
00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:29.840
be first. Actually jos So,
Yeah, great dude, And we always

608
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:32.679
love when Richard is hanging. So
we've got a couple of other calls,

609
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:37.159
folks, but we still have open
lines. And maybe Tom said something and

610
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:43.679
you just flat out disagree and you
think, oh my god, stand up.

611
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:46.480
I had to pick on you a
little bit. I don't think anything

612
00:40:46.519 --> 00:40:52.039
I said was flawed to any right, that's right. Well, we are

613
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:57.719
gonna go down to Florida. We've
got Nathan he him pronouns. It sounds

614
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.360
like you've got some evidence for God. Now how are you today? You're

615
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:04.639
talking with secularity and Tom, how
are you doing? Pretty good? Pretty

616
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:07.800
good? All right? Okay,
I usually watched this show, but I

617
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:12.400
you know, usually I see Matt
on there another the atheist experience. I'm

618
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:15.360
speaking UM, and I got tomm
and what was your name? Well,

619
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:19.800
I'm talking to secularity, but you
can call me SR even simpler. Okay,

620
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:22.639
I want to talk about something.
UM. You know, it's a

621
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:25.679
it's a little deeper than what we
calls like evidence, because I don't really

622
00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:29.360
use that word a lot. It's
you know, but I'll use it because

623
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:32.320
there's different kinds of evidence, like
material evidence and different things like that,

624
00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:37.760
and usually there are circular arguments and
um, and nobody gets anywhere with it.

625
00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:40.840
And usually uh. That was where
I was at for a very long

626
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:47.360
time until I started getting into instinctual
evidence and that word extinctual. I got

627
00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:52.360
on more and more because I realized
that when I'm in a position of extreme

628
00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:58.679
fear or danger, um, whether
it's medical, legal, whatever the case

629
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:00.440
may be, if somebody had a
gun to my ahead, I mean,

630
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:04.199
God forbid. But in those moments, those moments, I would one hundred

631
00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:06.800
percent refer to God. I would
go to, oh my God, or

632
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:10.119
help me God, or thank you
God for my life being saved or whatever

633
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:14.559
it was. So I just think
that on a deeper level, that that

634
00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:19.199
is evidence for God, and I
think everybody has that level. Everybody goes

635
00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:22.679
to that place, and to pretend
that they don't is being disingenuous. I

636
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:23.760
think. I mean if okay,
yeah, hang on, hang on just

637
00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:27.280
second, hang on, just second, because I think you yeah, yeah,

638
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:29.679
yeah, yeah, I think I
think that's a good bunch of stuff

639
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:30.840
right there. For sure, Um, Tom, what are you? What

640
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:34.840
are your thoughts on that? Just
kind of first first glance. Don't you've

641
00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:37.880
been there? Right? That's are
like what he's talking about, that experience,

642
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:40.800
Like I like how you list out
legal, medical, Like, Man,

643
00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:44.400
I'm sorry for what's going on,
Nathan. Yeah, everybody. I

644
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:45.960
mean there's scary things in life,
you know, and life. Sure,

645
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:51.119
sure, you're giving us a concept
that I think we can all Yeah,

646
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.480
yeah, we all we all experienced
these things subjectively. Let's be let's be

647
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:59.679
like sincere and really really you know, honest, because we can go and

648
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:02.239
serve is about evidence for God in
the Bible and all that stuff. I'm

649
00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:06.719
not even interested in any of that
because I think those are just words and

650
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:09.360
making noises, you know. I'm
thinking more on a deeper level. Sure,

651
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:15.639
Nathan, do you feel as if
your stance. Let's just say,

652
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:17.679
I mean, we could call it
an argument, just just a general term,

653
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:22.679
right, just your stance on that
right that you know you've had that

654
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:25.400
experience, you know so many other
people have had that experience. Do you

655
00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:30.239
think your stance is at all?
Weekend? If somebody says they have that

656
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:35.440
similar experience, but instead of calling
to God, they call to something else

657
00:43:35.480 --> 00:43:38.719
specific, do you think that changes
your view? I think I don't think

658
00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:42.880
the word matters. I don't.
I think whatever they're they're they're saying,

659
00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:45.719
it's But what if the claim that
they're making is mutually exclusive to the other

660
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:51.000
claim that you're making, Like you
say God, but they say Whosi what's

661
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:54.440
it? And whosie swats it?
Actually is an evil goat that sits in

662
00:43:54.480 --> 00:44:00.159
the clouds? Right? So like
what if what if that moment for somebody

663
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:06.199
else is mutually exclusive and contradictory to
your door moment like that sor but we

664
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:07.960
still go there, don't we?
We all still isn't that? That?

665
00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:13.039
Isn't that a problem because they're going
to a place that is completely counter to

666
00:44:13.159 --> 00:44:16.199
what you're going to, and you're
trying to use that experience of you going

667
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:22.400
to that other place as justification for
the existence of this thing. Yeah,

668
00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:24.760
yeah, Nathan, I gotta tell
you, like along these same lines,

669
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.960
if when you get when it's like
really like I'm talking, you're kidnapped or

670
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:32.719
something something like real severe, a
lot of people shit their pants. Can

671
00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:37.920
we make the claim then, right
that there's some shit. God is like

672
00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:39.519
the thing that we're really praying to
at the end of the day. It's

673
00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:44.079
all about shit. Hang on.
I don't want this to go towards spear

674
00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:47.480
and anxiety and being attached to that. It can happen in a good way

675
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:51.199
as well, like when a baby
is born and you're like, oh my

676
00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:53.320
God, thank you guys. Usually
people say the word God, and I

677
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:58.079
just find it funny that atheists say
the same thing. Yeah, but Nathan,

678
00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:02.519
are you no? No? And
yeah yeah, Hang on just a

679
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:07.800
second though, Nathan, because um
it's it sounds like you you you know,

680
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:10.239
you're calling to us today at least
from Florida. And I guess I

681
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:14.920
wonder how much time have you spent
in Kenya? You know, have you

682
00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:19.800
spent a lot of time in Thailand
or uh maybe with you know, Aboriginal

683
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:23.159
individuals over in like Australia and stuff, because I think you would find that

684
00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:29.559
that experience that you're talking about is
one that is very, very localized.

685
00:45:29.719 --> 00:45:34.400
And when you go to other places
where people have different belief systems just kind

686
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:37.639
of embedded in their culture in a
similar way that Christianity has been embedded in

687
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:42.400
the United States culture in various ways. Like you're going to find that their

688
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.719
stories are all similar too, in
that bit. But like, again,

689
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:50.280
it's completely contradictory to yours, right, So, like You've got somebody out

690
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:54.440
there who has lived his whole life
in Pakistan and his response is Inshallah,

691
00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.320
you know if Allah wills it right, So he doesn't. He doesn't say

692
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:02.280
anything about God, That's what I'm
saying. But the claim the right.

693
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:07.480
I understand that you're getting very hung
up on the words. I'm already pass

694
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:10.440
that though, Nathan, I'm in
the same boat with you of saying yeah.

695
00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:15.599
A lot of times people will use
a slightly different terminology to get at

696
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:21.519
an overall concept that they're trying to
discuss. Okay, But the problem is

697
00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:25.199
not that the word is different.
The problem is that the concept that they're

698
00:46:25.239 --> 00:46:31.960
trying to encapsulate with whatever word they're
using is contradictory to the concept that you

699
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:37.360
are trying to encapsulate with whatever word, and you are both having the exact

700
00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:43.199
same experience that you says puts your
side above, puts it on top in

701
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:47.199
terms of being accurate. And all
I'm trying to say is that if one

702
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:52.599
person has that, if two people
have that exact same experience but are both

703
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:59.400
pointing to contradictory things, we cannot
use that experience for justification for either side.

704
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:00.599
That makes sense, Tom, Do
you do you think I'm kind of

705
00:47:00.599 --> 00:47:04.440
getting at something here or what are
your thoughts on that? And we'll pass

706
00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:07.199
right back to you. Nathan.
Yeah, Nathan, I'm just in the

707
00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:09.320
same event, like he's talking about
two different things. Just imagine like this.

708
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:14.000
I think what you're saying is that
this happens on a human level,

709
00:47:14.119 --> 00:47:16.920
and I agree, right, But
then depending on where you're born and all

710
00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:21.800
these other factors, what's jammed into
your head, you go, I'm choosing

711
00:47:21.880 --> 00:47:23.719
this one right. It's like a
spider web of different things that it can

712
00:47:23.719 --> 00:47:28.440
get to. And I don't think
we're saying that there's some like anti God

713
00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:30.360
that were it could. No.
I feel the same thing. I just

714
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:34.320
don't have that that thing's like,
oh, it's like it's a god and

715
00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:37.400
lives in this guy Beard, et
cetera. Right, not that I'm saying,

716
00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:40.360
that's what you're saying. Have you
ever been in a traumatic situation?

717
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:44.239
And what was the very next thing
you said when you got out of that

718
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:47.880
situation? When you work fine?
Yes, goodness, holy shit, Yes

719
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:52.880
I have, and holy shit.
I've also said other things. Yeah,

720
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:54.440
you're down to the ship down.
Maybe I made a point. Yeah,

721
00:47:54.519 --> 00:47:58.320
yeah, calm down, Nathan,
calm down. You're getting a little excited.

722
00:47:58.360 --> 00:48:00.480
And I don't think it's necessary.
And reason I don't think it's necessary

723
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:05.039
is because, like the first call
that Tom and I took today, like

724
00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:08.440
John was actually in agreement with us
a lot more. And I really do

725
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:12.960
feel like Tom and I are,
you know, like seventy five percent of

726
00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:16.679
the way there with you. It's
just this last little, specific, nuanced

727
00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:21.920
point. And I guess what I'm
getting at is it sounds to me like

728
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:25.880
this whole time, basically you have
said that there there is this thing inside

729
00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:31.119
of all the people's all over the
worlds now, in the past and forever

730
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:37.400
in eternity, where there's just this
little wiring that every so often in these

731
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:43.760
difficult situations, we cry out to
something that is bigger and stronger and more

732
00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:46.519
cool and awesome than we are.
And I don't think Tom and I are

733
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:51.039
disagreeing at all on that. I
just think what we are saying is that

734
00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:57.760
it seems to be the case that
that doesn't actually point towards any one answer

735
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:01.800
because of the fact that every time
that we run this experiment, we get

736
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:07.280
not only different results, but contradictory
results, whether people are using the same

737
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:13.400
term or not. And I think
that's the part that we're having difficulty kind

738
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:16.119
of kind of getting the nuance out
between us, because again, I think

739
00:49:16.119 --> 00:49:21.280
for the most of what you've said, dude, like we're on board.

740
00:49:21.559 --> 00:49:27.119
It's just that last little step where
you say this experience proves my thing,

741
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:30.679
I don't think it does. And
one of the reasons I point to is

742
00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:37.639
specifically because that experience supposedly proves something
else that is contradictory one hundred percent to

743
00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:40.920
what you believe. And that's the
reason if we run the same experiment and

744
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:47.519
we get completely contradictory results, maybe
not the best thing to tell us one

745
00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:51.880
way or the other. Right,
Yeah, Well, time all you said,

746
00:49:51.960 --> 00:49:54.639
run the same experiment. You cannot
run the same real life experiment over

747
00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:59.119
and over as we can die on
a motorcycle. You can't keep all up.

748
00:49:59.199 --> 00:50:02.719
Are you telling me that somebody having
a traumatic car crash is different from

749
00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:07.119
somebody else having a traumatic car crash? Like, yeah, it's not the

750
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:12.199
exact same, you know, Fiat
car that got smashed by the eighteen wheeler,

751
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.079
But like a head a head on
collision is a head on collision.

752
00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:21.760
Like you know, traumatic events happen
all the time, and to argue that

753
00:50:21.800 --> 00:50:24.760
they're exactly the same, of course
as silly and not at all what I'm

754
00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:30.039
saying. But I would argue you've
basically this whole time been saying that those

755
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:36.119
arguments are similar enough, because they
would have to be to prove the point

756
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:39.480
that you're trying to make, Like
those traumatic moments for people when they cry

757
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:44.760
out to a deity would have to
be similar enough so that you could put

758
00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:47.400
a circle around it and go,
this is evidence for my thing. So

759
00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:51.960
again, I really believe we're in
the same boat there, Nathan. It's

760
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:58.239
just that you take the extra step
to say that this does positively confirm a

761
00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:01.800
particular stance that you have have and
all I'm trying to say is it doesn't

762
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:07.360
seem to be the case if when
doing the same thing over and over and

763
00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:12.000
over, we constantly get different and
contradictory result. And I'm going to let

764
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.400
you say some more stuff, Nathan, but then I promise I'm going to

765
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:17.360
shut up a bit because Tom has
not talked. But give us another thought.

766
00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:21.039
I'll kick it back to Tom.
You're saying for me, Yeah,

767
00:51:21.159 --> 00:51:24.000
go ahead, Okay, Yeah,
I listen. I understand what you're saying,

768
00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:28.199
but I think there's a bit of
fallacy there because what you're saying is

769
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:32.159
the same experiment. I'm still confused
about that because if you did run an

770
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:37.360
experiment where ninety nine point nine percent
of people that ended up in a major

771
00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:42.000
car collision, the ninety nine point
nine percent, everyone would say, oh

772
00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:45.400
my God, Saint God, I
didn't They would utter those words I and

773
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:47.360
if you doesn't have to be God, or it could be something. But

774
00:51:47.559 --> 00:51:52.840
they're going to think whatever source that
they I don't like the word belief,

775
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:57.119
but whatever source that they feel.
Okay, And that is a real thing,

776
00:51:57.159 --> 00:52:00.119
and I think atheists are in denial
of that real thing. Okay,

777
00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:04.639
That's all I'm saying. No,
you can't say hang on, hang on

778
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:07.199
a second, hang on a second, hang on a thing. That's some

779
00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:08.719
good stuff. I'm sure Tom has
some stuff to say. Go ahead,

780
00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:12.480
go ahead, Tom. No,
I just I don't know. I feel

781
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:15.159
like we're just we're just going round
and round on this. You're saying,

782
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:16.159
it's not the word, but it
is the word. It's not the word,

783
00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:19.760
but it is the word. I
think we're not them. I'm not

784
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:22.079
denying it. We're Yeah, you
can have the experience and you say,

785
00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:24.599
oh my goodness, holy shit,
that was wild, right, and then

786
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:28.639
you move on, Yeah, what
what now? Let me grant you that.

787
00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:30.920
What now? Where do we go? Well? I don't understand why

788
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:34.480
are you saying, well, why
are you saying holy shit? Oh my

789
00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:37.840
goodness? If in fact life was
not divine? If if if none of

790
00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:42.760
this made any matter, and it
doesn't and we believe, Am I not

791
00:52:43.519 --> 00:52:46.039
a divine Yeah? Am I not
allowed to call out to unicorns? Like

792
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:49.719
even though I don't believe that they
exist? Can I not say? Holy

793
00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:52.079
unicorn? But is that like silly? Because that's being stilly though you don't

794
00:52:52.119 --> 00:52:55.079
do Why is that? Why is
that? Whoa hold up? You don't

795
00:52:55.239 --> 00:52:58.920
get silly. Hold up, Nathan, you don't know me. You don't

796
00:52:58.960 --> 00:53:01.639
know me. I very silly,
and see, like, what does it

797
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:06.039
matter? Is what I'm getting at. If if anybody in a time of

798
00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:12.320
crisis calls out to anything else,
that individual action does not in any way,

799
00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:16.239
shape or form tell us anything other
than the most basic thing, which

800
00:53:16.360 --> 00:53:22.239
is in a similar situation, human
beings tend to cry out in such a

801
00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:27.079
way, like, but that's not
surprising. Like you go anywhere in the

802
00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:31.320
freaking world and kick somebody you know, in their ass and they're probably gonna

803
00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:37.880
go owes it. That doesn't mean
that there's there's some like there's some outside

804
00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:44.159
force that is just pain or ow
right, Like it's just an expression.

805
00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:46.960
It doesn't mean anything more than that. Yeah, But I think that's a

806
00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:51.119
little And I use the word silly
because right now times are getting silly,

807
00:53:51.159 --> 00:53:53.320
and I think that we're living an
easy time, and you know, when

808
00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:58.159
times gets hard, like during stressful
events World War two, whatever, it

809
00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:01.440
was, more people started connecting back
to God. And I think that's we're

810
00:54:01.559 --> 00:54:05.360
kind of Yeah, I just feel
like that. I just feel like that

811
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:08.039
argument doesn't work in your favor,
Nathan. Is the problem, Like I

812
00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:14.320
feel like what that says is that
this ideology is something that when things are

813
00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:19.639
actually going well, it's not necessary
to make things go better, and therefore

814
00:54:19.760 --> 00:54:22.400
it in that sentiment, it just
feels to me like it's a security blanket

815
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:25.599
or a crutch. And I would
probably agree with you. I just don't

816
00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:30.440
think that that works for your argument. You know, you know, God

817
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:34.760
forbid anything happens to anybody, But
when it's something happens, they I can

818
00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:37.920
guarantee you they're gonna say thank you
God or oh my God, and thank

819
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:40.840
you. That's you know, lepre
Coin. That's fair. I mean,

820
00:54:42.039 --> 00:54:45.280
I think that's fair that you have
that assumption. I think the issue is

821
00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:50.519
whether or not you have any proof
for that right. And again, I'll

822
00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:53.000
use this word again a because I
love it, be because you used it.

823
00:54:53.079 --> 00:54:58.599
But I think it's insanely silly to
assume that somebody who grew up their

824
00:54:58.800 --> 00:55:01.320
entire life in Delhi is going to, in any way, shape or form,

825
00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:05.960
say the same say the exact same
phrase that you do. And I

826
00:55:05.960 --> 00:55:12.280
think not recognizing that is really doing
a disservice to your own your own feelings

827
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:15.199
and beliefs. I know you said
you didn't like the word belief, but

828
00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:17.800
I think I really do, Yeah, I really do think that that should

829
00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:23.039
be something that should shake your confidence
in that feeling, because if I had

830
00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:29.960
an experience, and then claimed that
that experience, you know, was the

831
00:55:29.079 --> 00:55:35.440
the reason that I accept this particular
thing over here, and then anybody else

832
00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:38.400
I knew had a similar experience that
went to something different, I would stop

833
00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:45.599
saying that that experience is a good
reason to believe, because apparently it can

834
00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:50.239
lead us to two contradictory results.
So but with all that, Nathan,

835
00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:52.440
we are we are going to let
you go. I did still think that

836
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:54.119
was a really good call, man, and please do call us back.

837
00:55:54.159 --> 00:55:59.199
I know we didn't get to hash
out everything, and unfortunately sometimes on these

838
00:55:59.199 --> 00:56:02.320
shows don't you don't always have a
bunch of time to really dive into it.

839
00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:06.000
But I did think it was a
really good call, Nathan, UM.

840
00:56:06.039 --> 00:56:07.400
And so I do hope you give
us a call back in the future,

841
00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:10.920
because I like, I like good
calls like that. You know,

842
00:56:12.119 --> 00:56:15.000
I like disagreeing, um, but
but I also like to, you know,

843
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:17.679
I like when we find out we're
a little bit more on the same

844
00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:21.679
page something, you know, that
just makes me good. UM. But

845
00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:24.079
yeah, any any other clothes in
thoughts on that Tom before we we grab

846
00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:28.840
some other calls here, say thanks, thanks, Nathan, You're just like

847
00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:30.719
John. I feel like we're just
trying. We disagree about how much we

848
00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:34.920
agree about this thing. Yeah,
and then a word or two. Yeah,

849
00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:37.639
but we're there, We're with you. Yeah. Yeah, and again

850
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:40.079
I think we suck about the money
problems or whatever's going on. Yeah,

851
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:44.480
hopefully there's not too much too much
bad stuff going on for you, man.

852
00:56:44.599 --> 00:56:50.079
And again there's not hit that donate
button. And that's right, tiny

853
00:56:50.119 --> 00:56:53.519
dot cc shink hall thh, shameless
plugs. I love it. I love

854
00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:58.000
it. I love it. I
love it. Well, let me get

855
00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:02.679
through a couple of wonderful things here, like we have another super chat from

856
00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:07.679
Ariel Elliott. It looks like this
person is a new member by the way,

857
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:10.079
too, so five dollars super chat. Thank you so much. And

858
00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:15.599
they say, I say, oh
my God, when something unbelievable happens,

859
00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:20.039
I can't believe it happened, just
as I can't believe in a god.

860
00:57:20.239 --> 00:57:22.920
I like that comment. Ariel,
thank you so much. I really enjoy

861
00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:30.119
that. And we are actually about
to read out the top five patrons,

862
00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:31.760
Tom, can you see those?
Do you have those? I sure do.

863
00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:35.840
Okay, hang on just a second, let me let me say some

864
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:38.599
wonderful things here and we will go
right into that. So first, folks,

865
00:57:39.079 --> 00:57:45.079
make sure right after this show,
right freaking after this show three pm

866
00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:50.400
Central time today, the newest episode
of the flagship show of the ACA the

867
00:57:50.559 --> 00:57:55.800
nonprofits will be airing live tiny dot
cc slash hit NP. And I think

868
00:57:55.840 --> 00:58:00.800
I've even been told in the past
that if you just stay year at the

869
00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:04.440
Talk Heathen livestream, it'll just automatically
put you over there. But if it

870
00:58:04.480 --> 00:58:08.039
doesn't, tiny dot cc slash y
t n P three pm Central time today,

871
00:58:08.079 --> 00:58:13.440
that's right, the nonprofits, the
flagship show, and also the ACA

872
00:58:13.519 --> 00:58:16.280
wants you to know what is going
on in our community, and for that

873
00:58:16.599 --> 00:58:20.760
we have an updated website, so
it is super duper easy. Just go

874
00:58:20.920 --> 00:58:25.519
to www dot Atheist hyphen Community dot
org and you can learn all about the

875
00:58:25.639 --> 00:58:30.880
organization, it's policies and how you
can get involved. And we are always

876
00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:35.840
looking for wonderful volunteers and we've actually
gotten a few really good ones over the

877
00:58:35.920 --> 00:58:38.519
last like few months, So thank
you all and anybody else out there.

878
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:43.639
That's interested like it's a it's a
really great group of people. The crew

879
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:45.559
does a lot more than just sitting
there waiting for the crewcam, and you

880
00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:49.960
get to hang out with them.
And but finally, we want to hear

881
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:52.519
from you. We want to know
what you liked, what your thought was

882
00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:57.079
effective, and most importantly, what
you think we can do better. So

883
00:58:57.159 --> 00:59:01.480
just send us an email at TV
at Atheist hyphen Community dot org and tell

884
00:59:01.559 --> 00:59:06.039
us all your thoughts or post them
in the comments below. We take both

885
00:59:06.079 --> 00:59:08.559
so we look at them. Um, you know, mean things, mean

886
00:59:08.599 --> 00:59:13.199
tweets or or nice tweet whatever,
whatever you want to do. Um,

887
00:59:13.239 --> 00:59:15.679
Tom, you got that list ready? I have the list right here,

888
00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:19.960
folks, let's do it. The
top five patrons of the week. Here

889
00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:22.840
we are top five patrons, starting
with number one. I have a quick

890
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:24.880
question. How do you become a
top patron? Oh? You just go

891
00:59:24.960 --> 00:59:29.239
to uh it's very easy. You
just go to tiny dot cc slash patreon

892
00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:35.239
t h yeah, slash patreonh Okay. So if anybody wants to be on

893
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:37.119
the top of the list, they
can be doing that right now, right

894
00:59:37.159 --> 00:59:40.840
and getting ready for next week.
And don't turn that dial because number one

895
00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:45.480
we got Dingleberry Jackson, Dingleberry Jackson, thank you for having us read your

896
00:59:45.599 --> 00:59:51.440
name on the screen here. Number
two AAMA, it could be am am

897
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:55.519
a you know who you are,
hopefully Number three, Oops All Singularity,

898
00:59:55.719 --> 01:00:00.840
thank you for the fantastic donation.
Number four, Devon Belgian. If I'm

899
01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:05.519
saying that correctly, thank you,
Devon Devor. It was Devoor Belgian.

900
01:00:06.679 --> 01:00:09.920
Number five. At number five,
we've got Kallive Helveti, Klaive Helveti.

901
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:14.639
Thank you so much for your donations. Reminds me of that flick like a

902
01:00:14.719 --> 01:00:19.639
number Slevin remember, oh yeah,
Levin Klevra was his name. Fantastic and

903
01:00:19.800 --> 01:00:23.280
I think speaking of that flick an
honorable mention. Paul Sherman. That's right,

904
01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:28.960
Paul Sherman of Paul Sherman Fame,
wwwbot Paul Sherman dot com. Thank

905
01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:30.880
you, Paul Sherman. That's right. Folks. So if you want to

906
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:36.559
hear one of the wonderful hosts here
on talk, he then stumble through your

907
01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:40.119
name. You know what to do
tiny dot cc slash Patreon, t h

908
01:00:40.639 --> 01:00:45.000
M. I really do like Oops
All Singularity. I just it's clever.

909
01:00:45.159 --> 01:00:47.360
It's clever, you know. That's
nice. Um, well, we have

910
01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:52.639
a couple of other calls. Let's
grab another one. We've got Jay no

911
01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:59.599
pronouns given, has a question about
a couple of different ideologies and education and

912
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:01.800
stuff. Um, yeah, let's
do it. Hey, Jay, you're

913
01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:06.199
talking with Tom Benson and secularity.
What you got for us? Oh,

914
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:08.239
might not be there. That's okay. We'll just send you back to the

915
01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:12.280
queue for a second, Jay,
and we will be looking out for you

916
01:01:12.639 --> 01:01:15.079
in the future. And that's fine
because we have some other good calls.

917
01:01:15.320 --> 01:01:22.800
Let's go talk to Rob out in
Colorado. He him pronouns uh. Sounds

918
01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:29.159
like you're asking about fist reading the
Bible and and maybe not maybe not catching

919
01:01:29.159 --> 01:01:31.079
everything that it's trying to say.
How are you, Rob? Yeah,

920
01:01:31.599 --> 01:01:35.920
I'm doing pretty good. How you
guys doing, Oh pretty good? Pretty

921
01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:38.079
good? Yeah? What you got
for us today? Yeah? So basically,

922
01:01:38.119 --> 01:01:42.119
I was a CIS for a very
long time, Like all my life,

923
01:01:42.360 --> 01:01:45.119
I was indoctrinated from the kid.
You know, my parents, my

924
01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:50.159
grandparents, um and so on and
so forth. Um and UM, I

925
01:01:50.199 --> 01:01:54.199
guess I can uh, I guess
I can contribute my atheism to my pastor

926
01:01:54.280 --> 01:02:01.360
for offering seminary classes to me and
where I actually had to actually do some

927
01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:06.320
deep studying in the Bible. And
along the way, UM, I was

928
01:02:06.360 --> 01:02:12.559
also taking some online courses with biology
and you know, learning about different things

929
01:02:12.559 --> 01:02:15.119
that I never was really exposed to
the Christian in science. You know,

930
01:02:15.199 --> 01:02:20.320
my parents never taught me by the
evolution. UM. Nobody ever really talked

931
01:02:20.320 --> 01:02:22.719
about it around me in the school
I went to. Just like most of

932
01:02:22.719 --> 01:02:25.320
the schools, they kind of you
know, the dialey dally around it.

933
01:02:25.400 --> 01:02:30.840
They don't really teach it properly.
So I just started, uh shout out

934
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:32.679
to Fort Valkai. It's one of
my favorite biologists by the way, right,

935
01:02:35.719 --> 01:02:38.199
I just wanted to say, like, that's what actually put me on

936
01:02:38.239 --> 01:02:44.880
my journey to atheism is learning those
things first um. And it's not really

937
01:02:45.280 --> 01:02:50.960
you know, like I can't learn
that the Earth was created through the birth

938
01:02:51.039 --> 01:02:54.519
of the Sun and all the other
planets in our solar system and then believes

939
01:02:54.559 --> 01:02:58.760
that, you know, God created
the Earth first and then the fourth day

940
01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:02.440
he created the Sun like it.
It's like so like I just don't I

941
01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:06.880
guess what I'm trying to say.
I don't see how others seas can't come

942
01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:08.880
to that real ovation. And then
when you get deeper into the Bible,

943
01:03:08.920 --> 01:03:13.519
Like my church's never even told taught
me the story of jeff though I had

944
01:03:13.519 --> 01:03:16.320
to actually learn that on my own
by acting style, you know, like

945
01:03:16.760 --> 01:03:20.840
they like to keep that one a
little hidden for some weird reason. I

946
01:03:20.840 --> 01:03:23.840
don't know why. But right,
right, Well, Abraham didn't actually go

947
01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:29.800
through with it. Jeffa did so, right you? Ye? Well,

948
01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:32.280
well give you a second, ye
rob Tom, what what are your thoughts

949
01:03:32.360 --> 01:03:37.440
on this? Man? Like?
Why why did you? Uh? Why

950
01:03:37.480 --> 01:03:39.280
did you think the what? Why? Why do you think it's so difficult,

951
01:03:39.400 --> 01:03:42.719
you know, for for people to
get away? Oh that's my bad.

952
01:03:42.960 --> 01:03:45.639
I started talking and then I wasn't
sure where I was going. It

953
01:03:45.639 --> 01:03:49.599
doesn't matter, folks. The point
is that I know, for me personally,

954
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:53.519
Um, the reason that it was
so difficult to see a lot of

955
01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:58.280
those problems that you were talking about, rob Um, is in part something

956
01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:00.719
that you touched on, you know, real quickly, which is you just

957
01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:05.400
weren't exposed to it for for so
long, you know, And that in

958
01:04:05.480 --> 01:04:12.920
a lot of times is purposeful.
It is it is something that certain ideologies

959
01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:17.599
will do in an effort to make
it more difficult to push back on them.

960
01:04:17.719 --> 01:04:24.639
Right, it's something that insulates you
from having to actually put in work,

961
01:04:24.920 --> 01:04:29.679
and that actually is really really nice. So it's not it's not just

962
01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:32.239
that humans want an answer for stuff, right. We hear that. A

963
01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:36.719
bunch bunch of people say that,
and and that definitely makes sense as to

964
01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:42.400
why a lot of times we go
to these supernatural thinkings, um is because

965
01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:45.119
we do like an answer. But
you know what we like more than just

966
01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:50.159
an answer. We like an answer
that's fucking simple. If it can be

967
01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:55.920
easy, peasy, it's it's great, it's so much better. And when

968
01:04:56.320 --> 01:05:00.960
faced with another answer that is a
slightly more are difficult, it's honestly,

969
01:05:01.239 --> 01:05:04.519
it just kind of feels natural for
us to want to go back to that

970
01:05:04.599 --> 01:05:09.599
easy one because it doesn't take as
much work to get there. Right,

971
01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:13.760
But I just don't understand, Like, why can't we just ask the question?

972
01:05:13.880 --> 01:05:15.280
All right? We have the question
where did all this come from?

973
01:05:15.400 --> 01:05:18.719
Who create? Ye? We don't
know, We don't have no natural explanation

974
01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:21.280
for it. Why can't we just
leave it it then until we find one?

975
01:05:21.480 --> 01:05:24.800
Yeah? And I think, like, just leave it, like because

976
01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:27.679
like we're born atheist, Like I
don't even think atheists should even be like

977
01:05:27.960 --> 01:05:31.000
a term to describe anything like we're
just like it should be really feist.

978
01:05:31.039 --> 01:05:34.039
You're you, you just believe like
you you're making the claim, not me,

979
01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:36.719
you know, like yeah, and
real real quick, I'm gonna I'm

980
01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:40.960
gonna throw it back to Tom here
in a second. But um, yeah,

981
01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:43.519
I mean in part, you know, kind of brings us back to

982
01:05:43.880 --> 01:05:45.960
I think our first call, where
where we had been kind of asked about,

983
01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:49.239
like why do we do this and
stuff? Um, and and one

984
01:05:49.239 --> 01:05:54.039
of those reasons, for sure,
results from the fact that, truly my

985
01:05:54.159 --> 01:06:00.320
position is mostly a response to what
people are claiming right. And so it's

986
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:03.360
like, if people out there would
just just shut the hell up every so

987
01:06:03.400 --> 01:06:08.440
often and stop trying to hurt other
people and take people's rights away for their

988
01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:11.639
belief I probably wouldn't say so much. You know, I probably wouldn't say

989
01:06:11.679 --> 01:06:15.159
as much stuff. It wouldn't be
necessary. Like sure, I guess that

990
01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:17.440
technically puts me out of you know, a fun hobby that I do every

991
01:06:17.440 --> 01:06:20.280
so often, But you know,
I'll figure something else out, like bird

992
01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:25.000
watching or something. U. But
Tom, what do you think why why

993
01:06:25.119 --> 01:06:30.039
is it so difficult sometimes for the
believers to see the bad stuff that comes

994
01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:34.159
along with that belief. I don't
know. I think the question you're asking

995
01:06:34.239 --> 01:06:38.760
Rob too is like what do we
do about it? Right? Because we're

996
01:06:39.039 --> 01:06:41.800
same same team, right, Like, man, how do you talk to

997
01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:44.480
him? Do you talk to him
about it? Grandma? Are you gonna

998
01:06:44.480 --> 01:06:47.400
talk to grandma? You're gonna convince
grandma that after a living however many years,

999
01:06:47.599 --> 01:06:51.800
that there's actually this No is sorry, they tricked you the whole time.

1000
01:06:51.880 --> 01:06:55.320
Nobody wants to feel like that.
So it's really difficult to have these

1001
01:06:55.360 --> 01:07:00.639
conversations. Yeah. I just like
even even talking to people, you know,

1002
01:07:00.679 --> 01:07:02.440
like you like to educate them,
like, hey, look check this

1003
01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:06.159
out, just check check Hey watch
this guy, you know why, listen

1004
01:07:06.199 --> 01:07:10.119
to what he has to say about
evolutions, like like check this out,

1005
01:07:10.320 --> 01:07:14.360
like really dive deep into it.
It's like none of that matters. But

1006
01:07:14.519 --> 01:07:16.800
God, it's just like God.
Yeah, And I think about it.

1007
01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:20.360
I mean, isn't it comforting when
you had God? That was a comforting

1008
01:07:20.400 --> 01:07:24.360
thing to some degree. There's there's
the goods in the bads, and I

1009
01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:28.000
experienced both of them. But I
feel it was abuse though. I feel

1010
01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:31.920
because like coming coming away from it, you know, like I actually believed

1011
01:07:31.960 --> 01:07:35.920
in these hell, like it was
a real place for me, you know,

1012
01:07:36.039 --> 01:07:40.639
And like now I'm free, Like
I'm not scared to die. I

1013
01:07:40.679 --> 01:07:42.920
don't want to die, of course, I got a lot to live for,

1014
01:07:43.400 --> 01:07:46.440
but I'm not scared of it because
I know that there's no bad place

1015
01:07:46.440 --> 01:07:49.840
that I'm gonna go and burn for
all these like I don't believe that anymore.

1016
01:07:50.119 --> 01:07:53.639
And at one time that place was
real for me, you know,

1017
01:07:54.519 --> 01:07:57.599
the rapture, you know, like
when when the news when when my parents

1018
01:07:57.599 --> 01:07:59.719
will leave the house, you know, and the news will come on or

1019
01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:00.920
something, you know, I rush
out. I want to see you know,

1020
01:08:00.960 --> 01:08:03.599
I'm a kid, you know,
I want to see us maybe maybe

1021
01:08:03.679 --> 01:08:06.519
maybe it's today, you know,
because nobody knows, that's what the Bible

1022
01:08:06.559 --> 01:08:10.400
says. Nobody knows, you know, So like, you know, I

1023
01:08:10.440 --> 01:08:12.880
want to make sure I was one
of them, you know, Like am

1024
01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:15.320
I am? I doing the right
thing? You know. It's just you

1025
01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:18.079
know, like how can you live? Like I feel so free from living

1026
01:08:18.119 --> 01:08:23.520
my life under the thought of my
every not just action, but even my

1027
01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:29.279
every thought being monitored fighting Fink the
wrong thing, burn and I know,

1028
01:08:29.720 --> 01:08:32.279
stepping away, stepping away from that
Rob just In and of itself, I

1029
01:08:32.319 --> 01:08:38.560
think is so is so freeing.
Um. And again even though a lot

1030
01:08:38.600 --> 01:08:42.399
of us on the outside now can
see that as a really terrible experience and

1031
01:08:42.520 --> 01:08:45.520
see how much you know, fear
and harm and all that other bad stuff

1032
01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:49.600
was there, I think you know, Tom is right in that sense where

1033
01:08:49.880 --> 01:08:55.039
there is a level of comfort that
is often you know, found by these

1034
01:08:55.079 --> 01:09:00.880
people that hold these beliefs, and
for them that comfort outweighed all that other

1035
01:09:00.039 --> 01:09:04.840
stuff. Now I don't think that's
the case, but that level of comfort

1036
01:09:04.960 --> 01:09:10.760
is something that seems to you know, go beyond all of those other things.

1037
01:09:10.880 --> 01:09:13.880
So yeah, I know, I
know it's a tough it's a tough

1038
01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:16.159
thing for sure, um, but
you know that's why we do stuff like

1039
01:09:16.199 --> 01:09:20.640
this. And and hopefully if we
can have some more good conversations like we've

1040
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:25.039
had a couple today, um,
hopefully we can we can get some more

1041
01:09:25.079 --> 01:09:29.239
people to h to kind of step
away from those harmful things that that's harming

1042
01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:33.000
others and themselves. Because I don't
think in either scenario it's good. But

1043
01:09:33.439 --> 01:09:36.760
we're getting we're getting close to the
end. Drob and I think we have

1044
01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:41.920
Jay back and we always love talking
with our theist friends, So we're gonna

1045
01:09:41.960 --> 01:09:44.680
let you go, but thank you
so much for giving us a call today,

1046
01:09:44.760 --> 01:09:46.520
Rob. I think it was a
good one. Yeah, yeah,

1047
01:09:46.640 --> 01:09:50.880
it was fun. And but of
course you know, we've got that wonderful,

1048
01:09:50.920 --> 01:09:55.880
wonderful Facebook group, the fan run
discord as well. Uh, and

1049
01:09:55.960 --> 01:09:59.720
those are great places to go go
hang out, folks. And as another

1050
01:09:59.760 --> 01:10:04.920
great place the patreon. Oh snap, oh snap, that's a tiny dot

1051
01:10:04.920 --> 01:10:10.079
cc slash Patreon. Thh folks,
So shameless plug, shameless plug. Um.

1052
01:10:10.119 --> 01:10:13.640
Also, I uh, you know
there's another good place to go.

1053
01:10:13.920 --> 01:10:15.720
I don't know if you've ever heard
of this place, Tom, It's it's

1054
01:10:15.760 --> 01:10:23.399
this little little spot called Austin,
Texas. And see in Austin, Texas,

1055
01:10:23.720 --> 01:10:28.680
the last Sunday of every month,
the Free Thought Library opens up its

1056
01:10:28.680 --> 01:10:32.560
doors and they are broadcasting live.
That's right, May twenty eight, twenty

1057
01:10:32.680 --> 01:10:36.159
twenty three. Come on down to
Austin, Texas and hang out at the

1058
01:10:36.159 --> 01:10:41.760
Free Thought Library. Join us for
talk. He then hosted by the wonderful

1059
01:10:41.840 --> 01:10:46.920
Forest Valkai and Sophia Spinna. Sophia
actually auditioned for the open h came in

1060
01:10:47.039 --> 01:10:50.239
for for the open call, and
did a fantastic job. And we are

1061
01:10:50.319 --> 01:10:56.439
so super excited for her appearance,
and then after that the Atheist Experience will

1062
01:10:56.479 --> 01:11:00.239
be hosted by Forest Valkai and Jim
Barrows. Door is open at noon,

1063
01:11:00.560 --> 01:11:04.239
so we hope to see you there, folks. It is an absolutely wonderful

1064
01:11:04.279 --> 01:11:08.720
time. It is so so much
fun being there, hanging out with people

1065
01:11:08.760 --> 01:11:14.119
in person and uh and getting to
getting to see the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

1066
01:11:14.479 --> 01:11:16.800
And there's actually a lot of wonderful
stuff. There's there's a couple of items

1067
01:11:16.840 --> 01:11:19.840
there by the way. I don't
know if anybody's ever seen this or notice

1068
01:11:19.920 --> 01:11:24.680
this. There's a couple of items
in the background that has Dan's face on

1069
01:11:24.720 --> 01:11:27.159
it. So I'm not going to
tell you which one, folks, but

1070
01:11:27.239 --> 01:11:30.039
I'm just going to tell you to
look next time the live broadcast is happening,

1071
01:11:30.039 --> 01:11:33.720
which is actually happening May twenty eight
of this month. Pretty little east

1072
01:11:33.800 --> 01:11:36.600
eke for you there. Yeah,
yeah, I'll give you another one coming

1073
01:11:36.680 --> 01:11:41.399
up on the flagship show that we
have here. Look for it. Behind

1074
01:11:41.479 --> 01:11:44.920
Kelly there's a rock with Dan's face
on it. Oh snap, really,

1075
01:11:44.960 --> 01:11:49.960
profits that's okay, okay, you
will see a rock Dan's face on it.

1076
01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:53.800
Well, now, folks, you
have homework, so look for that

1077
01:11:53.880 --> 01:11:58.880
rock behind Kelly with Dan's face on
it, and the next live broadcast on

1078
01:11:58.960 --> 01:12:02.720
May twenty eight, be looking be
looking for that and sorry Dan about just

1079
01:12:02.760 --> 01:12:05.399
like picking on you and the things
that you have your face on, but

1080
01:12:05.439 --> 01:12:08.960
like, how did you get your
face on sometime? It's really I don't

1081
01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:13.159
know, it's almost a miracle,
Dan problem. Anyway, I think we've

1082
01:12:13.199 --> 01:12:16.880
got time for just one more and
we are hoping to go hang out in

1083
01:12:16.960 --> 01:12:20.359
the fan run discord server at the
end of it. So it looks like

1084
01:12:20.560 --> 01:12:27.239
we have Jay Colin in no pronouns
given. I think I can click the

1085
01:12:27.279 --> 01:12:30.479
button. All right, Hey,
Jay, you were talking. Hey you're

1086
01:12:30.520 --> 01:12:33.319
talking with Tom Benson and Secular Rarity. What what do you got for us?

1087
01:12:33.560 --> 01:12:36.640
All right? Tom and Ben?
Yeah, the thing is that too.

1088
01:12:36.960 --> 01:12:42.920
You you're young kids as far as
I'll see you now, as far

1089
01:12:42.960 --> 01:12:46.399
as the world is pretty much educated. Who do you think is responsible for

1090
01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:53.479
this worldwide education? Is it communism? Is it Christianity? Is it a

1091
01:12:53.680 --> 01:12:58.560
slam? Who do you think is
responsible for this education worldwide? Sure?

1092
01:12:59.000 --> 01:13:01.359
Tom, you want to give us
your thoughts and then I guess I guess

1093
01:13:01.399 --> 01:13:04.720
it depends on where you live,
right, I don't know, keep going.

1094
01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:09.640
Yeah, I think because I was. I was looking at this question

1095
01:13:09.800 --> 01:13:13.720
Jay before he brought you on,
and I think my answer, unfortunately,

1096
01:13:13.760 --> 01:13:16.000
is going to suck a little bit. And the reason is because I think

1097
01:13:16.000 --> 01:13:19.840
there's I think there's something actually wrong
with the question itself. Um, I

1098
01:13:19.920 --> 01:13:26.680
don't think there is a codified ideology
that either exists currently or has existed in

1099
01:13:26.720 --> 01:13:31.479
the past in such a bullet pointed
of ways as to like truly be the

1100
01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:35.479
thing that is, like what has
brought us all the goodness and knowledge in

1101
01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:41.279
the world. I think what has
done that, though, is a handful

1102
01:13:41.399 --> 01:13:45.239
of different things that had that have
given us the right path. Right,

1103
01:13:45.399 --> 01:13:49.119
so like, for instance, you
know, going freaking Aristotle and all his

1104
01:13:49.199 --> 01:13:53.520
buddies, you know, a long
time ago, just sitting around and doing

1105
01:13:53.560 --> 01:14:00.079
nothing but thinking of logical fallacies like
that, that process and that epistemology,

1106
01:13:59.840 --> 01:14:04.079
that way of coming to understand the
world, I think is what's actually underpinning

1107
01:14:04.079 --> 01:14:08.800
all of this. I don't know
if it's fair to just call that science,

1108
01:14:09.319 --> 01:14:11.600
because it's kind of a little bit
more. It's kind of the you

1109
01:14:11.600 --> 01:14:15.119
know, the underpinnings of science,
is what I'm saying. Um, But

1110
01:14:15.199 --> 01:14:17.800
yeah, I think that's probably you
know, the best, but it's it's

1111
01:14:17.800 --> 01:14:21.520
it's not a great answer in the
sense like you can't just point to communism,

1112
01:14:21.560 --> 01:14:25.399
you know, and say like ha
ha that so does does that?

1113
01:14:25.520 --> 01:14:27.880
Does that kind of make sense?
Jay? Kind of where I'm coming from.

1114
01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:30.000
We lost Jay, we might have
Jay, Jay, I'll give you

1115
01:14:30.039 --> 01:14:32.880
one more account. That's okay,
that's all right, we can get you

1116
01:14:32.960 --> 01:14:35.439
back in the queue. I mean
we're getting Well, what was the question?

1117
01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:38.640
I didn't know. I didn't get
the question. Yeah, basically the

1118
01:14:38.920 --> 01:14:41.960
question was, well, hey,
there we are, Jay, we can

1119
01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:45.520
hear you again. Okay, so
did you hear did you hear what kind

1120
01:14:45.520 --> 01:14:47.520
of We both said? Should make
sure we're on same page? Who wanted

1121
01:14:47.560 --> 01:14:51.000
to know? What's the question?
Tom? Tom? Tom Ben Jay,

1122
01:14:51.159 --> 01:14:55.000
Hello, I'm sorry, Yes,
we can hear you. Yeah, Okay.

1123
01:14:55.159 --> 01:14:59.880
The thing is you were somewhat in
because I'm from that thought of in,

1124
01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:02.279
yeah, which is called Pakistan India. I don't want to go into

1125
01:15:02.319 --> 01:15:05.279
a I don't want to go into
a discussion about Pakistan or India. And

1126
01:15:05.319 --> 01:15:10.399
we're having just unfortunately, Jay,
just some some audio troubles um and just

1127
01:15:10.520 --> 01:15:13.119
for you know, just to be
kind to you, and be kind,

1128
01:15:13.159 --> 01:15:16.319
to be kind to all our wonderful
viewers and stuff. We are just gonna

1129
01:15:16.479 --> 01:15:23.199
move on here, and uh,
let's see we've got some good stuff here,

1130
01:15:23.239 --> 01:15:26.479
I think, Jay Gait. Sure, Jay, if you can still

1131
01:15:26.520 --> 01:15:29.840
hear us, join the Patreon.
That's a great way that you can submit

1132
01:15:29.880 --> 01:15:31.840
your questions. Write it out.
We'll get back to you. Yep,

1133
01:15:32.479 --> 01:15:34.800
but we do. We could.
You could be at the top of the

1134
01:15:34.840 --> 01:15:39.560
list. Remember Dingleberry. You could
be the new Dingleberry. Jay be the

1135
01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:42.920
new Dingleberry. That's correct, That's
correct. And it looks like we got

1136
01:15:43.159 --> 01:15:45.479
one. We got another call here. Okay, so hang on, Frank,

1137
01:15:45.680 --> 01:15:48.680
because before we pick you up,
I want to let you folks know

1138
01:15:49.079 --> 01:15:54.880
that if you're sitting around you know
sometimes and you're feeling you're feeling like you

1139
01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:58.479
just don't know what to do or
where to go, and you want to

1140
01:15:58.560 --> 01:16:03.119
catch more of the some awesome ACA
shows that that happen all over the YouTube's

1141
01:16:03.159 --> 01:16:06.560
and the internets, well guess what, We've actually got your freaking covered.

1142
01:16:06.560 --> 01:16:11.600
Okay, So no more crying,
no more complaining, because you can just

1143
01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:15.399
go check out our twenty four seven
a xp TV live stream. That's right

1144
01:16:15.600 --> 01:16:21.000
anytime any day anywhere any I didn't
have a fourth one. Actually I probably

1145
01:16:21.039 --> 01:16:26.319
should have thought about that before.
Anyway, anytime anywhere, you can experience

1146
01:16:26.359 --> 01:16:30.439
a constant stream of shows, clips, and specials from the over twenty six

1147
01:16:30.840 --> 01:16:36.199
seasons of the Atheist Experience, folks. So you watch, listen whatever,

1148
01:16:36.399 --> 01:16:41.680
put it on in the background,
clean your dog or your kitchen, and

1149
01:16:41.960 --> 01:16:45.720
check out some of your favorite hosts
and discover some really cool hosts that you

1150
01:16:45.800 --> 01:16:51.680
have probably never heard of. So
tany dot cc slash a XPTV to join

1151
01:16:51.760 --> 01:16:57.479
in on that fun. And now
we're going to go out to North Carolina

1152
01:16:57.600 --> 01:17:01.359
real quick, Frank. No pronouns
was given, just we we got just

1153
01:17:01.399 --> 01:17:04.520
a few minutes here, Frank.
But what it sounds like you want to

1154
01:17:04.520 --> 01:17:09.239
talk a little bit about the fine
tuning theory or something. What you got

1155
01:17:09.279 --> 01:17:14.119
for us, Well, well,
um I've called in on the previous occasion

1156
01:17:14.520 --> 01:17:20.880
and made a reference to um Alan
Gus with the Institute for Events Study at

1157
01:17:20.880 --> 01:17:29.359
Press at Princeton, and he had
said that the constance the physical, the

1158
01:17:29.479 --> 01:17:36.359
constance in physics that pertain to the
universe are so precisely calibrated that that it

1159
01:17:36.399 --> 01:17:42.479
would be a gazillion gazillion to one, that they were merely a product of

1160
01:17:42.640 --> 01:17:48.039
chance and the uh the speakerism I
was talking then said, well, the

1161
01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:56.479
fine tuning UH theory or hypothesis has
been debunked, and okay, I'd like

1162
01:17:56.560 --> 01:18:00.920
to hear more about that. Um, you know the particularly you know,

1163
01:18:01.039 --> 01:18:06.760
physicists of late have come up with
a concept of dark energy and energy inherent

1164
01:18:06.840 --> 01:18:12.960
in the universe that is causing the
expansion of the universe, and that if

1165
01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:19.800
it were off one digit at the
seventh decimal place, then the universe would

1166
01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:29.199
never have manifested because matter would have
other coagulated too much for start plants.

1167
01:18:29.239 --> 01:18:31.399
Real quick, Frank, I'm just
gonna jump in because I think I might

1168
01:18:31.920 --> 01:18:38.039
see where a little bit of the
issue is. So. Unfortunately, when

1169
01:18:38.079 --> 01:18:43.640
people speak, oftentimes we're not perfect
with our wording, right, and individuals

1170
01:18:43.640 --> 01:18:47.279
that are at a very high level
of education often speak to each other in

1171
01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:53.920
very specific, nuanced jargon. Okay, And sometimes when they try to speak

1172
01:18:53.960 --> 01:19:00.399
to us that are not so heavily
involved in that particular field of study,

1173
01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:04.720
they use some words and they say
things in a way that doesn't fully explain

1174
01:19:04.800 --> 01:19:10.920
what they're trying to say. So
I have heard many of many of no

1175
01:19:10.920 --> 01:19:12.520
no, no, no, no, no no. Hang on, hang

1176
01:19:12.560 --> 01:19:14.920
on, Frank, hang on,
Frank, Hey Frank, Hey Frank.

1177
01:19:15.000 --> 01:19:17.279
We're having a good conversation. It's
only like two minutes and thirty seconds in.

1178
01:19:17.560 --> 01:19:23.279
I don't think there's any need for
animosity or hostility. But what I'm

1179
01:19:23.319 --> 01:19:28.239
saying is that oftentimes when physicists,
when those high level academics say things like,

1180
01:19:28.479 --> 01:19:31.439
if this thing were changed by blah
blah, then this would be the

1181
01:19:31.520 --> 01:19:34.239
case, or it wouldn't be the
case. Okay, So what they're talking

1182
01:19:34.279 --> 01:19:40.239
about is if all of the other
constants in the universe are the same today,

1183
01:19:40.359 --> 01:19:44.960
if everything else that we know about
existence is how it is, and

1184
01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:48.680
then we just flip this one dial
one click over that screws everything up.

1185
01:19:48.800 --> 01:19:56.479
But we don't actually know that another
system with slightly different clicks of the dial

1186
01:19:56.600 --> 01:20:00.560
could actually work together. Right.
So it could be the case that gravity

1187
01:20:00.880 --> 01:20:05.159
is tuned just a little bit differently, but the weak nuclear force would also

1188
01:20:05.199 --> 01:20:10.600
have to be tuned differently, right. So oftentimes when they say that phrase,

1189
01:20:10.960 --> 01:20:15.199
it's not exactly getting the whole bit
of information across. Does that make

1190
01:20:15.199 --> 01:20:17.520
a little bit more sense though,
when you think about it, like that.

1191
01:20:17.680 --> 01:20:19.359
Oh, hang on, I'm sorry, I didn't one. Now I've

1192
01:20:19.359 --> 01:20:28.560
got your sorry. But also the
person with whom I was speaking said,

1193
01:20:28.680 --> 01:20:32.600
well, you know you're only referring
to one universe and that's not a statistically

1194
01:20:32.680 --> 01:20:38.560
significant sample. Well, the universe
as we know it is at least thirteen

1195
01:20:38.640 --> 01:20:46.119
point seven billion light years across according
to the James Hubble deep Field experiment.

1196
01:20:46.560 --> 01:20:49.399
But I want to say, well, how many universes do you need?

1197
01:20:49.920 --> 01:20:57.640
You know? And also that is
intriguing and mystifying to me, as the

1198
01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:03.000
multiverse theory is. I wonder if
there's indeed any proof per se for the

1199
01:21:03.159 --> 01:21:12.000
multiverse hypothesis. I think I think
more physicists have stepped away from that in

1200
01:21:12.039 --> 01:21:15.920
the most recent years, although I'm
not one hundred percent positive on that um

1201
01:21:15.119 --> 01:21:18.039
but because because we are getting close
to the end and I do want to

1202
01:21:18.079 --> 01:21:21.880
have some time for the phaner and
discord and stuff. Frank, but let

1203
01:21:21.920 --> 01:21:26.000
me let me throw something out to
you, okay, and then and just

1204
01:21:26.039 --> 01:21:29.720
tell me if you've ever heard of
this, Okay, have you heard about

1205
01:21:29.760 --> 01:21:34.439
the potential for the discovery of a
fifth fundamental force in the universe? Have

1206
01:21:34.520 --> 01:21:39.640
you heard anything? Does this ring
any bells whatsoever. T Well, the

1207
01:21:39.680 --> 01:21:44.600
only thing I really know about that
is that Einstein could not come up with

1208
01:21:44.600 --> 01:21:49.760
a grand unifying series that he couldn't
reconcile gravity mathematically with the weak force,

1209
01:21:49.800 --> 01:21:55.439
the strong force, and electromagnetism.
Boom. So you are on the page.

1210
01:21:55.520 --> 01:21:58.560
Okay, So you are You are
on the page, Frank. Okay.

1211
01:21:58.680 --> 01:22:00.600
So that is a big deal that
there are only four of those,

1212
01:22:00.680 --> 01:22:04.600
And it is a super big deal
that the weakest of which gravity is the

1213
01:22:04.600 --> 01:22:10.760
one that we as the observer,
experience more than anything else. It seems

1214
01:22:10.760 --> 01:22:14.840
to have the strongest hold on our
life, but in fact is incredibly weaker.

1215
01:22:15.119 --> 01:22:17.840
Okay, So a couple of experiments
recently done smashing some atoms together,

1216
01:22:17.960 --> 01:22:23.119
large hadron colliders and so forth.
Okay, we may have we may have

1217
01:22:23.199 --> 01:22:29.800
been incorrect about the mass of a
subatomic particle called a muon mu o n.

1218
01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:33.000
This is very, very brand new
cutting edge. Oh my gosh,

1219
01:22:33.039 --> 01:22:36.720
could shift everything in science. And
the reason that I brought all of this

1220
01:22:36.840 --> 01:22:41.800
up is just really to say,
like a lot of times, where we're

1221
01:22:41.840 --> 01:22:45.960
at is a place that has taken
a long time to get this level of

1222
01:22:46.000 --> 01:22:50.119
knowledge. But the idea that that
is the end point for the knowledge is

1223
01:22:50.359 --> 01:22:55.800
almost always wrong, right, And
that's good. That's good that that's the

1224
01:22:55.880 --> 01:23:00.520
case, because it means that we
can continue to learn about things and understand

1225
01:23:00.560 --> 01:23:05.199
things and find out better answers.
The difficulty, I think lies in the

1226
01:23:05.239 --> 01:23:11.960
ability for us to say that stuff
that we don't know about is just freaking

1227
01:23:12.039 --> 01:23:15.199
that. It's a question mark right
now, and we can postulate ideas as

1228
01:23:15.239 --> 01:23:19.319
to what could be the case,
but actually trying to get to any claims

1229
01:23:19.720 --> 01:23:24.800
right from the rip just falls flat
on its face because it's already a category

1230
01:23:24.800 --> 01:23:28.640
of existence that we've said we just
don't understand. And I think that is

1231
01:23:28.960 --> 01:23:32.920
the most freeing place to be.
When you come up to a question mark,

1232
01:23:33.159 --> 01:23:39.199
leave it as a question mark until
you have good reason to put something

1233
01:23:39.279 --> 01:23:44.319
in that box. And that's the
thing that I don't want us. I

1234
01:23:44.399 --> 01:23:47.880
don't want us to take that next
step of saying what this fifth fundamental force

1235
01:23:48.399 --> 01:23:51.520
is, because we're not there yet. We think there could be one,

1236
01:23:51.920 --> 01:23:57.600
We think it could unify everything,
We think it could explain all this dark

1237
01:23:57.680 --> 01:24:00.920
matter and stuff, But honestly,
we've been trying to figure out about dark

1238
01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:04.920
matter and dark energy since like the
seventies, I think. But before we

1239
01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:08.800
let you go, Frank, let
let me get Tom just shout some thoughts

1240
01:24:08.800 --> 01:24:11.760
at you. What do you think
about that? The fine tuning? And

1241
01:24:12.039 --> 01:24:15.479
you know, do we know everything
about the universe or what? I don't

1242
01:24:15.560 --> 01:24:17.520
know, man, this is this
is all this is like Forest FALKEI and

1243
01:24:17.720 --> 01:24:21.439
yeah, yeah, yeah, mikey
stuff. Yeah, I don't know what

1244
01:24:21.439 --> 01:24:25.560
what done? I always what what
done? What? What now? Frank?

1245
01:24:25.600 --> 01:24:28.399
And I'm not like being combative,
Rank. I assume you would have

1246
01:24:28.399 --> 01:24:30.479
said the same thing SR would have
said if you've known it just now.

1247
01:24:30.640 --> 01:24:34.640
I don't necessarily know the argument,
but yeah, that's cool. I think

1248
01:24:34.640 --> 01:24:40.079
you change your name from SR to
pe Professor Elliot because you've very well said.

1249
01:24:40.199 --> 01:24:42.880
I don't think I can add anything
to that. Thank you yet.

1250
01:24:42.960 --> 01:24:45.600
Well, Frank, like I said, we are going to let you go

1251
01:24:45.720 --> 01:24:48.239
just because we are close to the
end. But please, especially if you

1252
01:24:48.319 --> 01:24:51.479
see me on again in the future, please give a call back in a

1253
01:24:51.479 --> 01:24:55.880
little bit earlier and and we'll try
to get to you, um even sooner,

1254
01:24:55.880 --> 01:24:59.640
because I love to have long,
long conversations where we can really really

1255
01:24:59.680 --> 01:25:03.560
hash things out, and unfortunately we
just sometimes are not able to. But

1256
01:25:03.640 --> 01:25:08.439
That's okay, folks, because I
think it was an awesome show, and

1257
01:25:08.520 --> 01:25:13.760
Tom and I are gonna wrap all
this bad boy stuff up real quick so

1258
01:25:13.800 --> 01:25:16.800
that we can come hang out with
you wonderful people in the fan run discord.

1259
01:25:16.920 --> 01:25:19.600
That's right, But before we do, I gotta remind you that the

1260
01:25:19.720 --> 01:25:26.680
prompt for this week is if God
favors humans, why are they so blank?

1261
01:25:26.840 --> 01:25:30.479
So fill in that blank for us. Reply in the comments below this

1262
01:25:30.520 --> 01:25:33.239
wonderful video, and remember to tune
in at the beginning of next week's episode

1263
01:25:33.279 --> 01:25:36.319
and you can hear the top three
answers, and one of those top three

1264
01:25:36.399 --> 01:25:41.720
might be yours. So let's see
what else. Yes, that's right.

1265
01:25:41.800 --> 01:25:44.600
You can like the video and subscribe
to the channel. Again. We are

1266
01:25:44.640 --> 01:25:48.159
so freaking close to ninety thousand subscribers
and that means the world to us,

1267
01:25:48.439 --> 01:25:51.560
So thank you everyone that has done
that. And again, if you haven't

1268
01:25:51.600 --> 01:25:55.159
liked the video, it literally takes
you no effort, Like, it takes

1269
01:25:55.199 --> 01:25:58.960
absolutely nothing. I'm sitting here for
like two hours straight and you can't click

1270
01:25:58.960 --> 01:26:00.600
a I'm sorry. That was just
no it's it hit it. I mean,

1271
01:26:00.800 --> 01:26:04.000
there's one thing to it. Well, we'll be dishonest about even if

1272
01:26:04.000 --> 01:26:08.800
you don't like it, just hit
the lightbooton helps the folks at home.

1273
01:26:09.319 --> 01:26:12.239
You know you're hearing all these people
who are subscribing to the Patreon. You

1274
01:26:12.239 --> 01:26:15.039
don't have to be just like them. We would help, you'd be cooler.

1275
01:26:15.239 --> 01:26:17.640
But in the meantime, hit that
light button. And speaking of you,

1276
01:26:18.000 --> 01:26:23.079
you can support us on Patreon tiny
dot cc slash patreon t h get

1277
01:26:23.119 --> 01:26:26.000
your name red out if you're in
the top five, and you can become

1278
01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:30.279
a member of this wonderful channel just
by clicking the joint button below the video.

1279
01:26:30.520 --> 01:26:33.479
Don't forget that we have a wonderful
channel that houses all of the shows

1280
01:26:33.520 --> 01:26:38.439
of the ACA and the audio podcast
form at tiny dot cc slash ae N

1281
01:26:38.560 --> 01:26:44.159
Podcast. And you can hang out
in the wonderful Talk Heathen community in the

1282
01:26:44.199 --> 01:26:47.359
fan run facebook page tiny dot cc
slash fe t h G. And if

1283
01:26:47.359 --> 01:26:51.199
you want to catch Tom and I
hanging out for a little bit before the

1284
01:26:51.319 --> 01:26:57.239
awesome, awesome new episode of the
flagship ACA show The Nonprofits, which again

1285
01:26:57.319 --> 01:27:00.800
airs at three pm Central Time today
tiny dot cc slap. If you want

1286
01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:03.640
to have some fun with us before
that, you can come over to that

1287
01:27:03.760 --> 01:27:11.119
fan run discord server the ACD tiny
dot CC slash a CD discord and before

1288
01:27:11.479 --> 01:27:15.399
we show that wonderful crew cam and
get this wonderful love rings up there,

1289
01:27:15.520 --> 01:27:19.640
Tom, tell everybody real quick where
they can find you find us more www

1290
01:27:19.720 --> 01:27:24.359
dot however we got here dot com
or w dot hooever we go there dot

1291
01:27:24.359 --> 01:27:27.399
com we got both domain easy,
easy, peasy, and you can hear

1292
01:27:27.439 --> 01:27:30.960
Tom say some wonderful stuff. Um. Let's show those beautiful faces, those

1293
01:27:31.000 --> 01:27:35.319
hard working crew members that make us
look like we know what we're doing.

1294
01:27:35.680 --> 01:27:40.119
That right there fo Yeah, it's
honestly, it's all the cat the rest

1295
01:27:40.119 --> 01:27:43.119
of them don't there. But let's
can we get can we get some love

1296
01:27:43.199 --> 01:27:45.640
rings? Can we go? Can
we get a little bit of I love

1297
01:27:45.680 --> 01:27:47.159
it? I love it, I
love it, I love it, I

1298
01:27:47.199 --> 01:27:51.560
love it. Well, Uh,
we definitely have to thank our viewers.

1299
01:27:53.399 --> 01:27:57.079
All of you help keep this running. You are the reason that we do

1300
01:27:57.119 --> 01:28:00.279
this, UM, and whether you
believe or not, if you are an

1301
01:28:00.359 --> 01:28:02.600
essential worker, seriously, thank you
so much. UM. I know that

1302
01:28:02.640 --> 01:28:06.399
these last few years have been a
lot and we are still unfortunately not out

1303
01:28:06.399 --> 01:28:10.039
of the woods in a lot of
ways. UM, but we can all

1304
01:28:10.039 --> 01:28:14.600
do some very very simple things and
play our part. So if you don't

1305
01:28:14.680 --> 01:28:17.520
believe, do remember that this is
this is a home for you, This

1306
01:28:17.600 --> 01:28:20.760
is a place, and there are
so many, so many wonderful pier um.

1307
01:28:21.000 --> 01:28:26.039
And I know what it's like to
have those moments where it just feels

1308
01:28:26.039 --> 01:28:29.800
like the whole freaking world hit you
all at once and you just feel like

1309
01:28:29.920 --> 01:28:32.520
crap, Um, that's okay,
it happened. And just remember that you

1310
01:28:32.520 --> 01:28:36.279
don't have to you don't have to
suffer in silence. In fact, don't

1311
01:28:36.399 --> 01:28:41.000
please reach out to somebody here,
Um, hit us up at that email,

1312
01:28:41.279 --> 01:28:45.000
or hang out like I said,
at that wonderful Facebook fan run page,

1313
01:28:45.079 --> 01:28:47.800
or or or in the ACD.
So again, it's it's it's all

1314
01:28:47.800 --> 01:28:50.279
that make us want to do this, you know, it's the community.

1315
01:28:50.479 --> 01:28:55.600
So without you, we're just sitting
in our houses just talking to nobody.

1316
01:28:55.800 --> 01:28:59.680
So but Tom, you know how, you know how we like to end

1317
01:28:59.680 --> 01:29:03.119
this show. Amen. Well,
okay, so what we do is we

1318
01:29:03.399 --> 01:29:06.479
do this thing where I say,
if you do believe we don't hate you,

1319
01:29:06.720 --> 01:29:10.239
and you say, we're just not
convinced. You're ready? We got

1320
01:29:10.279 --> 01:29:14.159
it all right? Pretty simple,
Okay, So if you do believe we

1321
01:29:14.239 --> 01:29:16.039
don't hate you, We're just not
convinced. We'll see you next time.

1322
01:29:50.840 --> 01:29:56.520
We want the truth, so watch
Truth Wanted Live Friday at seven pm Central.

1323
01:29:56.640 --> 01:30:00.439
Visit tiny dot cc slash y t
t W and call all into the

1324
01:30:00.479 --> 01:30:04.119
show at five one two nine nine
one nine two fours, or connect to

1325
01:30:04.119 --> 01:30:08.960
the show online at tiny dot cc
slash all tw