WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:09.640 Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of Alex a Mix. This is 2 00:00:09.679 --> 00:00:13.560 your host Addie Anger, and today on the panel we have Alan Weimer. 3 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:16.359 Hello Audie, and I just want to say you sound very excited to be 4 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:20.239 here, man, I have. Yeah, I am, because you know, 5 00:00:20.280 --> 00:00:25.160 I get to repay you hosting so many times in a row. You 6 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:28.839 know, I don't like having debt on my shoulders. And also I'm super 7 00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:34.479 excited because we have amazing guests with the boom, Eric scare boom. I 8 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:38.520 hope my Froun's that right, Eric, Yeah, that's absolutely fine. Well 9 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:41.719 done, Prigs. I was a bit nervous about that, but yeah, 10 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:45.119 So for those who don't know Eric, he is the head of open source 11 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:49.719 at an amazing place, Exorcism. I'm sure many of us, many of 12 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:53.039 the listeners have used it. And yeah, we're super excited to have Eric 13 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:57.640 here and kind of dig into what he does in Exorcism book Mark. I'm 14 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:00.719 really glited to be here. So awesome. It's like usually what we do 15 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:03.120 in this, you know, when you have a guest, we kind of 16 00:01:03.120 --> 00:01:06.680 go over you know, their background, and you know, maybe give an 17 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:11.400 introduction. But I think your introduction is probably better given by yourself, because 18 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:15.799 I would love to know what kind of background you have to lead to this 19 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:18.560 kind of a unique title head of open source and I want to take into 20 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:21.799 that as well. But let's get started with like how did you get involved 21 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:25.480 with excess and kind of when around when did you get start, you know, 22 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:30.680 being involved with exorism. So I was working at the University of Naimesha 23 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:36.959 at the time, and we had a very generous budget to have available for 24 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:41.120 learning resources for like courses, et cetera. So I was always trying to 25 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:42.640 learn new stuff. I was doing c sharp at the time, and I 26 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:47.480 had heard of functional programming, but I didn't really know it. So a 27 00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:51.519 colleague of mine found a course online of cours serah dot org. It was 28 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:53.599 free back in the days. Now it's paid, but it was given by 29 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.599 Martin Oderski, who's the main author of the Scala language. It was one 30 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.599 of the more popular function langue at the time, and we were like, 31 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:04.480 oh, maybe we could try this course and see if it is anything that 32 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:07.680 we that we liked. And I absolutely loved it. I loved functional programming. 33 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:10.879 Of course, there's this bit where you have to sort of get used 34 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:14.879 to all the new idioms. So it was a bit weird at first, 35 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:15.680 but once you get used to that, I was like, oh, I 36 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:20.439 want more. I want more. So they had a little bit of a 37 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:23.319 form where all the students could ask questions, and I asked, well, 38 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:25.520 if I wanted to do more skal I want to learn more, where would 39 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:30.599 I go? Somebody suggested, hey, try exorcism. They have a couple 40 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:32.719 of exercise that you could do, and you can you can interact with other 41 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:35.879 people. So I was like, oh cool, I'll try it out. 42 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:38.400 And so I did the Scalar track and I was like, wow, this 43 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:43.280 is really really cool and I love functional programming, so let's try Haskell. 44 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:47.479 So I have sort of a deep dive. I definitely struggled quite a lot, 45 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:53.680 but where I was getting unstuck was because of all the lovely helpful people 46 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.159 commenting on my solutions, saying well have you looked into this, you could 47 00:02:57.240 --> 00:02:59.520 do this that way, et cetera, et cetera things, and I never 48 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:01.879 came up with myself. So I was like, oh, these people have 49 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:06.240 all helped me, maybe I can also give back. I know c sharp, 50 00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:08.680 so why not join the sea sharp track. So at first I started 51 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:13.840 also commenting on other people's solutions, and then I don't even remember if it 52 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:16.120 was my idea if somebody asked me, but they were like or I was 53 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:19.879 like, I didn't know. Maybe I can help build the track too, 54 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:23.360 so I add new exercises improve the existing ones. And I had just started 55 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:29.159 dabbling in open source a bit, so I quite like that open source aspect 56 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:30.360 of it, and it was like, maybe I can have my own bit 57 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:35.639 of open source where I'm not just contributing a bit to other people's projects, 58 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:38.199 but just having a bigger influence. And that was all fine, and they 59 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:42.319 were like, yeah, go for it. So I was almost given like 60 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:46.360 free reign. So that was really amazing to me because that was not something 61 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:47.879 that was used to with open source. And then I started building up sea 62 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:51.280 sharp breck and then I was like, hey, well I know sea sharp, 63 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:53.479 I love function program. Let's try f sharp. So I then took 64 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:59.319 on the f sharp track. And once you started doing more tracks use you 65 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:03.400 get into the territory where we have like a shared repository of exercises that all 66 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:06.919 the tracks sort of are based on, although they can add stuff themselves. 67 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:10.560 And then I got to interact with a lot of other people too, some 68 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:15.120 other track maintainers. So I sort of became a well known ish because I 69 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:17.959 was involved in all these discussions and doing open source stuff also to stuff that 70 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:21.079 they were would be using. And then at some point, I think it 71 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:27.000 was actually during COVID time, but just before COVID time, and Jeremy Walker, 72 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:31.079 one of the co founders, he asked me if I was interested in 73 00:04:31.399 --> 00:04:35.160 helping build out EXORCISTMV three and I was like, well, yeah, that 74 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:40.759 actually cool. Though I did have to sort of get used to being alone 75 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:43.800 because we are not based on in an officer of something like that. We're 76 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.519 all promote so that was quite a thing for me. But I was well 77 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:51.480 prepared for the COVID pandemic because I was already working at home a time that 78 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:57.040 was sort of like a benefit. How they asked me, Wow, so 79 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.000 and what year was this like when you initially started started the sculptrick. I 80 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:03.680 think in twenty fifteen, Oh wow, very early, Yeah, they were 81 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:06.879 it was two years old or something like that, and like the very first 82 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:12.439 user or anything, but and then probably contributing within a year or so and 83 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.600 maybe doing that for a bit, and then well I think I'm now here 84 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:17.920 four years, so it was twenty twenty when I actually joined. That's awesome, 85 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:21.079 Yeah, very cool. So I guess before getting into a current role, 86 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:27.800 like what kind of responsibilities did you have as you said a track maintained 87 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:30.839 role, right, like what you said, like there was a shared repo, 88 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:32.959 you'd make sure the questions are you know, the problems out there and 89 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:36.360 like every language, like what does that entail? Because I imagine, you 90 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:40.439 know, as you add more new languages, and I'm sure that's still in 91 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:43.480 process, you might need more candidates. And I'm just curious, like if 92 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:48.160 any of the listeners they want to Alan's like showing us as well either, 93 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:51.319 but I kind of wanted to give our listeners some insight into you know, 94 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:55.920 what type of work to track maintenance do or if they want to help out, 95 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:58.680 you know, just what can they like expect Well, it sort of 96 00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:01.279 depends on what you like. It also depends on the other track maintainers what 97 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:04.279 they expect of you. It's it's not like there's a like a format you 98 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:08.360 have to fill out and you have to check this box that box. So 99 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:11.360 it's not really like that. It's usually it's it's word of mouth. So 100 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:15.399 when we see people that have been doing positive work, having contributions that work 101 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:19.439 that we value, people that are enthusiastics that learn, then we usually ask 102 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:23.279 them. It is rarely that people ask us, can we can I be 103 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:28.199 maintained unless it's a new track. So when people are very enthusiastic about their 104 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:30.360 language and it's not on Exorcism yet, they usually ask, hey, can 105 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:33.560 you add it to Exorcism And we were like, sure, but someone has 106 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:38.040 to build it. We see you and and often people were like, oh, 107 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:40.639 okay, yeah, sure, and then we have documentation of course to 108 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:44.040 help people with that. But for my the short track was well, it 109 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:46.959 was in a reasonable state, but it definitely didn't have a lot of exercises, 110 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:49.879 so I sort of made it my goal. And I know that the 111 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:54.079 Elix track had the same thing. Whether the track maintainers tried to do this 112 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:59.439 where you want to get all the shared exercises implemented, so except for maybe 113 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:02.199 things that don't fit the track, so there's also a couple of exercises, 114 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:06.279 but I think I added maybe like eighty exercises or so, so quite a 115 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:10.879 lot. And then like I'm a programmer, so I love to build complex 116 00:07:10.959 --> 00:07:15.560 things and sometimes I go way overboard, and there wasn't It was definitely not 117 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:19.279 the best of examples. But the shared exercises I all have adjacent structure with 118 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:25.000 it. So like consider the exercise leap. So leap is about detecting whether 119 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:27.399 or not something as a leap here. So you get pasted in the number 120 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.160 you have to return a booleon simple enough. But we have a canonical data 121 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:33.800 dot Jason file, so that lists all sorts of like test cases, so 122 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:39.199 it will be like two thousands and then the expected answer is well true or 123 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:43.160 whatever. So tracks don't have to come up with all these these test cases 124 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:46.040 themselves. We provide them for them. And the idea is that we consider 125 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:50.079 all the things that we check the edge cases, et cetera, et cetera, 126 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:53.800 et cetera. But I was like, this is Jason. I'm a 127 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:57.680 programmer. Why can't I just convert Jason into sea Sharp. So that's why 128 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:01.600 I built a tool when we call them test generators. Other people had done 129 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:05.560 that too, and I went way overboard. So like you can add a 130 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:09.560 class and it would automatically automatically do a lot of stuff and you get output 131 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:11.399 a c sharp test file, and that would save me a lot of work. 132 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:15.600 Especially when you want to update your exercise, you could just rerun the 133 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:18.680 generator on the latest data. Nice, but it was a big undertake, 134 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:22.680 but something like it was a proper engineering problem. And that's what I really 135 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:26.560 loved. And I had other people too working with me, not that many. 136 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:31.199 I would prefer more, but it was still fun to build stuff with 137 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.159 other people together. And that's also part of the reason why I kept on 138 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:37.919 doing exercise and work, because you were building things with each other. It's 139 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.879 like the social aspect of it's like that was so great. So interacting with 140 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:46.559 very clever people. There were people that were way more clever than I am, 141 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:50.639 so I loved interacting with them and like, oh wow, that's that's 142 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:54.080 so interesting. How can you even come up with that? I couldn't for 143 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:56.039 the life of me. But so I really enjoyed that. That's awesome. 144 00:08:56.120 --> 00:09:01.399 Yeah, there aren't very many opportunities. I guess these days it's like a 145 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:05.039 bit easier, but at least like twenty fifteen sixteen, there weren't very many 146 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:09.360 opportunities to interact with people like in a social way, for for coding, 147 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:11.840 and yeah, it's it's such an important aspect of growing and like kind of 148 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:16.159 bursting a bubble. Like you could like live in a small bubble of like 149 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:18.919 people and like just you know, have like a local maximum, right, 150 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:22.519 like someone who's like, you know, within my circle, the best developer. 151 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:26.480 But and like you could start considering them the benchmark. But it's important. 152 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:28.960 It's to burst your bubble. And like see, you know, there's 153 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:35.759 like crazy people. They operate at a level that you can't even comprehend almost, 154 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:37.879 you know sometimes, and it's just it's I love platforms that kind of 155 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:41.120 like encourage that kind of you know, interaction and like you know, and 156 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:45.519 some people might be good at some other something and some other ones might be 157 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:48.320 good at some other algorithms stuff, you know whatever. This exis, the 158 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:52.639 common social aspect of that is is really cool. I'll be honest, I've 159 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:56.919 not really used it that much, the social aspect exism, but I appreciate 160 00:09:56.919 --> 00:10:03.120 a platform like providing those kind of features. You said you did maintain C 161 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:07.879 sharp and F sharp track, and you did Haskell track. Have you done 162 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:09.320 any other? Have you done the Elixa track? We have to ask that 163 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:13.279 question. Have you done the Elixa track on Exorcism? Yeah, yeah, 164 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.480 I've done the majority. I haven't finished it completely. I'm not actually sure 165 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:20.039 how many tracks have there, but I've done at least twenty years. Oh 166 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:24.000 wow. Yeah, so I'm definitely the definition of a public lot. I 167 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:28.559 love learning new languages. There's also this that found because every time I see 168 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:31.720 new language, I want to learn that. So it's like my focus just 169 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:37.879 shifts. Nice. What track you mentioned Haskell had like very encouraged you people 170 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.639 who were like, I guess like not maintenance, but like people in the 171 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:46.240 others doing the track right, Like what other would you consider Haskell like, 172 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:48.879 you know, like the best track like for that kind of support, Like 173 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:50.759 I mean it hascas a language does need support, you know if you're learning 174 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.600 without help. And I'm just curious that this like Elixir has a kind of 175 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.799 support. Or what's the state of other languages in terms of you know, 176 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:03.000 the social aspect where and they have discussions that encourages discussions. That's actually it 177 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:07.240 completely varies, but it not only varies by track but also by time. 178 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:11.919 So at the time in twenty fifteen, the people that were doing the HESPA 179 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:13.960 track, those will be for the most part different people that do now. 180 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:18.279 So this is what open source in general, like you only get to have 181 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:20.639 people for a limited amount of time before they try to do something else, 182 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.080 which is absolutely fine of course, and we always we never are I don't 183 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:28.279 know, disappointed, and so when somebody leaves, it's completely natural. So 184 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:31.399 it's very hard to say what the best track is. Of course the extra 185 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:33.080 track is great, I can I can definitely tell you that. So we 186 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:37.799 have a lot of great mentors on many different tracks, but it's not always 187 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:41.120 like a one to one correspondent, because they could be one mentor so we 188 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:45.639 will get into mentoring in a little bit, but one people commenting on your 189 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:48.519 code that really takes your boxes. So the way that they talk about the 190 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:52.120 code is that suits you. There are suggestions aligned with what you would have 191 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:56.360 liked to hear, and then there would also be people that would suggest things 192 00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:58.399 that you would be like, nah, this is just not this is not 193 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:01.840 what I would like to do. And then it's the social aspect of trying 194 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:05.960 to get those two people together to in the end come up with a great 195 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:09.799 result. But there are so many different opinions, and you know programs, 196 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:15.080 we're quite opinionated, so they can sometimes clash. But in general and over 197 00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:18.480 the vast majority of cases, people are really pleased with just having somebody else 198 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:24.039 who is proficient in the language help them out with with stuff. So your 199 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:26.399 original question, I can't really say what's the great language. It depends on 200 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:30.639 the person, on the time, and depends on the track, so many 201 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:35.480 variables. Basically we'll just take a elixir from that answer. It's the best. 202 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:37.399 No, But that totally makes sense, like I said, Like, 203 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:41.240 I mean, that's a nature of open source. Everyone's life changes. It's 204 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:46.159 like a volunteer it's volunteer work. Like it's something that you most people do 205 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:50.279 outside of their you know, necessary time and life changes. You have kids, 206 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:54.720 whatever, like they just at a different place in life. So you're 207 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:56.919 right, that's a very good point. And didn't think about it that way. 208 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.480 Yeah, so you were seeing something else there. No, I was 209 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:03.960 maybe should just talk a little bit about mentoring and how that works, because 210 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:07.000 that's one of the things that's different from other places where you can like do 211 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:13.799 these little programming puzzles. So you can work with the website online, so 212 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:16.639 you can if you want to do elixir, you can code Elixir online. 213 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:20.360 We have a little editor, well not exactly little has a lot of features, 214 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:22.639 but you can do stuff online and the benefit for new students is that 215 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:26.480 they don't have to set up anything. And the idea being that if you 216 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:28.759 want to try it a new language, you might not want to have to 217 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.000 install everything, So you might not want to install the b et cetera, 218 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:35.080 et cetera. I just want to try out the language, if the syntax 219 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:37.399 works for you, if you enjoy it, and then if you enjoy it, 220 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:41.799 and maybe you want to install install stuff locally, then you can work 221 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:45.919 with the Exorcism Cli, so like a command line tool that you download and 222 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:48.559 you can run locally. So that's one part. But when you finish the 223 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:54.159 test, we are like a test driven development usually where you get a set 224 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:58.559 of tests and your goal is to have the implementation that you build past all 225 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:01.600 the tests and the way in which you do it. We don't care really. 226 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.840 As long as they pass the test, you are free to build your 227 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:07.919 code whatever way you see fit. But that's not the end, so it's 228 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:11.799 not in many or many places that's the end. You're done, You've checked 229 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:15.799 all the boxes, all the tests are passing. Great work, but there's 230 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:20.120 only half of it on Exorcism because especially when you're learning a new language, 231 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:24.120 you might not the way that I learned has Call. I would be doing 232 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:28.399 stuff that many people would consider unidiomatic Haskell. Maybe I would write scala Ish 233 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:33.559 Haskell because I come from a Scala background back then, so they probably could 234 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:37.200 notice that. But what ecceism that gives you is the ability to request mentoring. 235 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:41.759 So each track has an n number of mentors, and those are people 236 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:46.279 that know the language well and they will review and review sounds like almost like 237 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:50.480 a critique, but you can see it as like a joint code looking at 238 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.639 your code with somebody else, So it's not like a critiquing, but it's 239 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:56.879 more like, hey, have you thought about this? Maybe you can try 240 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:00.759 it like this? Did you know that we have this built in function? 241 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:05.039 Did you know that in general, people that programming in this language do it 242 00:15:05.240 --> 00:15:07.799 like this? And this is the documentation that you can look for. So 243 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:13.200 the idea is that it's often hard to find industry standards for a language language. 244 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:18.080 So those those conventions that you get used to once you work in a 245 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:22.120 language for a couple of years, it's not always the case that you can 246 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:24.559 find stuff like that online. Some languages do this better than others, but 247 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:28.080 for example, for c sharp, it was for a long time not even 248 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.919 like a code naming guideline, So there was a book and there was a 249 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:35.200 lot of stuff that that wasn't really properly available. And then helping other people 250 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:41.120 just help you and point you towards the right resources and the common mistakes that 251 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:45.480 you might make, especially when you come from a different language where things can 252 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:48.879 have the same name but can do subtly different things, and that's what trips 253 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:52.240 you up. So and that that's the mentoring part of exorcism. We're all 254 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:56.840 volunteer based, and you would just request somebody to look at your code and 255 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:00.480 then you have a nice little discussion and in the end you almost invariably end 256 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.440 up with better code than what you started out with. Yeah, that's very 257 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:07.960 Yeah, that's like I said, it's very unique to exism. And you 258 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:11.480 said there could be multiple mentors looking at the code too, right like that 259 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:15.440 Also, like further, like you said, if you're not very happy with 260 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.679 like a particular time of suggestion, you can always like you know, reach 261 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:22.440 out to more people and I can like either like you know, like revalidate 262 00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.039 what you're thinking or in value. Yeah, it's really cool what's the process 263 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.679 to become one of these kind of mentors though? What I mean because you 264 00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:33.960 can't accept anybody right. Well, yeah, we have a like a criterion 265 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:38.919 where you have to have a certain amount of what street reputation, so you 266 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.120 have to have done a little bit of work on exorcism. But there's no 267 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:47.399 real proper vetting process or anything like that. The idea is that students can 268 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:51.840 give mentors a feedback at the end and like a rating, so it thumbs 269 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:56.360 up thumbs down stuff, and overall, once people have done maybe I don't 270 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.600 know, tennis sessions, we we get like this rating, we can use 271 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:03.240 this, we can find the mentors that are just like really bad. But 272 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.359 in general, even if you you can start mentoring before, you're not a 273 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.400 complete expert. So there's always stuff that you can comment on, and of 274 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.200 course it interacting with a mentor that is like maybe the language designer themselves might 275 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.559 give you more insight than somebody who has only been doing this for a couple 276 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:22.160 of months, But even so they could probably comment on your code in useful 277 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:26.920 ways. So we don't really have a vetting process except for that you have 278 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.079 to have a certain amount of reputation means that you have to have done a 279 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:34.079 certain amount of things like having sold exercises or maybe the PRS or whatever, 280 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:37.839 but any money can become a mentor basically, Yeah, I like that. 281 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.839 I think it's you could add that wedding process. But I mean it's also 282 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:45.519 like there is some subjectivity to that you want to get under that interview space, 283 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.960 Like it's it's not something you want to like set interviewing people for, 284 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:52.920 Like it's a lot of things for you to over your kind of like you 285 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:55.039 know, like take over as well. Like it's like it's a lot of 286 00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.880 work first of all. And I don't think it will change the results as 287 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:03.599 much either, so that it might actually negatively influence. It might like discourage 288 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:07.839 people from mentoring. So I really like that you have maybe like a base, 289 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.759 like whatever credits you earn, just do show that you know they're bought 290 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:15.160 into the platform. And yeah, makes sense. Awesome. So I'm very 291 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:21.119 curious. You said you were hired for this position head of open source to 292 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:25.960 build Exorcism V three through. Yeah, what is that on tail? What? 293 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:27.559 What is you know? What can you tell us about that you've been 294 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:30.359 hired? You said four years? Right, what have you been building. 295 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:36.039 What are yeah? What is existent? V three? Okay, So startup 296 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:40.640 exism P One was just you submit your solution and other people can comment on 297 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:42.559 it, like it's just a free commenting system. Anybody who can comment on 298 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:47.440 anything, which had a lot of benefits, but also downside where people get 299 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:52.279 like Internet nasty, so judgmental and maybe rude, and people like I'm not 300 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:56.880 even going to post my solution because people will be not that that's great. 301 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.440 So then we have launch fee two which aim to it this. So mentoring 302 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:06.359 between became required for you to a mentor basically had to sign off on things 303 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.480 before you could continue. And the idea was that we re ordered the exercises 304 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:14.160 to have like a curriculum where you would start up with very simple thing and 305 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:17.079 then you would move on to or different things. So it was more like 306 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:22.960 we provide you with a semi optimal path towards learning. But the mentoring sign 307 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:26.799 off was quite problematic in the end because there were tracks where you had to 308 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:30.319 wait maybe a couple of days before you can get your feedback and you couldn't 309 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.960 continue, and that would just be incredibly unhelpful to students that wanted to progress 310 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:37.559 quickly. Even though they would get a lot of useful comments, that waiting 311 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:41.079 bit was just too much, So we built V three to combat that. 312 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:45.359 So the things that we introduced in V three were the online editors so that 313 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:51.799 you can code in the browser. Also, we removed that blocking mentoring check 314 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:56.640 off, but we introduced tooling to sort of do automatic mentoring. So we 315 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.000 have a couple of things to help with that. We have Analyzer, which 316 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.640 is a bit of code that looks at code for patterns and then can comment 317 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.000 on that. So any Elixir, I don't know, maybe you see people 318 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:12.000 not using the pipe operator and the code could detect that and could see that, 319 00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:15.680 hey, this is a series of function calls. This could also have 320 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:19.680 been written in a way in which you would use the pipeline operator. So 321 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:25.559 it's a bit of software basically take some of the comments and the repetitive comments 322 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:29.880 I would say for that not always fund for mentors out of their hands and 323 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:33.079 into automation. So there's one thing, and we build another tool that's called 324 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:37.920 a representaor it's very specific naming for us, but it basically gives you a 325 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:44.319 source code and you sort of normalize it's like a hash almost where you normalize 326 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:48.160 for example white space formating, so using I don't know, a mix has 327 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:52.400 a format command, I think, so you do mixed format first, so 328 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.640 all the code will be formated the same way. And the idea is and 329 00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:00.000 that if two solutions, because a lot of solutions will not be unique, 330 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:03.839 especially to a simpler exercise like leap, which have maybe I don't know, 331 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:07.920 twenty ish unique solution, there will be more people are very creative, but 332 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.039 in general, like the majority will be just a couple of variants. So 333 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:15.200 if you could just comment on the whole instead of the individual cases, that 334 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.920 would be great. And that's where we use that representaers thing. Every solution 335 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:22.400 will be like hashed and then if we see that two solutions have the same 336 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:26.319 hash, you can comment on that hash basically, so it will apply to 337 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.640 all the solutions with the same hash. So you do that once and somebody 338 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:33.279 submits the same solution a year later, they get the comment that you added 339 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:38.200 the year before. So it's all trying to get you to have comments without 340 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.279 needlessly bothering the mentors with it. I mean, I wouldn't mind being the 341 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:44.279 mentor. But then my first question is, well, how much of a 342 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:47.200 commitment does this needed. It sounds like you're moving a lot of that quote 343 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:49.960 unquote commitment. How often do you think mentors need to kind of contribute to 344 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:53.839 this kind of stuff? Is it five hours, twenty hours, any idea? 345 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:59.559 Basically what you want? So we would like mentors to maybe do one 346 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:02.559 or two hours a week. Some do way more than There have been people 347 00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:06.279 that have coming along tens of thousands of solutions that are almost like this is 348 00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:07.880 their side job. But if you can just do an hour a week, 349 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:11.400 it's always helpful. Any work you do is helpful, so you don't have 350 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.079 to go overboard. And if there's like a couple of weeks that you can't 351 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.400 mentor, well, sure of course there will be other people. But any 352 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:21.440 help that we can get is basically beneficial. Yeah. I kind of think 353 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:26.599 that this role as like track contributor ish not maintaining, but contributor, like 354 00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:30.319 a you know, like then a mentor. So I guess Ali is saying 355 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:33.440 like, you know, you would like to mentor and stuff, and I 356 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:37.119 actually think this role and correct me if I'm like kind of mistaken, Eric, 357 00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:41.920 But it's like someone who is already bought into the platform, who is 358 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:45.839 like who you can be confident as a regular user of the platform, right, 359 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:48.920 not necessarily like you said, like an expert in that like in an 360 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:52.079 expert category at all, someone who would just add value to the platform, 361 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:56.480 right, Yeah, so so they would. I think it's almost like preferable 362 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.599 to have someone with like a mid tier knowledge who is more bought in the 363 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:03.920 platform and uses it regularly than like an suppose an expert who hasn't used a 364 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:07.759 platform and it's important to it and just as like not because because retention is 365 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:11.440 a big thing, contribution engagement is a big thing there. Yeah, I 366 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:14.880 don't know, Eric, Yeah, no, there's that, there's one undercent 367 00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:18.680 true and the downside of experts that they all feel like they're right, so 368 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:23.400 there's there's less leeway there usually, yeah, where if you're not doing what 369 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:26.160 they are doing, then you're doing it wrong. So it can be hard 370 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:30.960 working with people that are very very opinionated, although of course you have experts 371 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.680 that that are not like that, of course, right, none of them 372 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.279 are mentals are like that, of course stick in my mind. You know 373 00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:41.119 Linus being on the seat trae, Yeah, yeah, interesting, you know, 374 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:45.279 he's very amated and gives very strong opinion. If you're when you're committing 375 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:48.240 here code. No, but I understand that and sometimes you need that, 376 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:52.519 right. There's no such thing as necessarily the best code. I guess there's 377 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:56.279 definitions for that, but yeah, it's it's interesting too. One thing I 378 00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:59.319 also kind of popped in my mind is about like the copyright, right. 379 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:00.799 I mean, it's work of our whatever you want to call it. You 380 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:03.519 know, we just have a copyright and stuff. But it's a bit my 381 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:06.519 code is this one? I think it's probably being saved somewhere, I could 382 00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:10.200 say perpetually. Does it go away? Do I own the copyright? I 383 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:11.559 mean, there's some of these kind of questions are popping in my mind. 384 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.920 I'm not a very good in the legal aspect, but I'm fairly certain that 385 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:18.799 you're giving the rights of your code to us. So we don't necessarily own 386 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.319 the code as is. We could do stuff with it, but we won't 387 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:26.599 be using it for commercial purposes because we are a nonprofit. We're just doing 388 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.039 open source work. We don't have a corporation behind us or anything like that. 389 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:33.480 We are a formally registered nonprofit in the UK, so you can look 390 00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:37.559 us up. But now we don't try to make money off people's code and 391 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.960 or the data or whatever. We're very privacy sensitive. The only way in 392 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:45.799 which we will use that data is to maybe help train our our like analyzers 393 00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:49.559 and representers that that try to to better help people. But we don't sell 394 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:52.839 anything or like that. You know, obviously you also need help. So 395 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.079 maybe somebody's problems that I'm writing code for, you're actually saying, oh, 396 00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:59.359 actually I got to solve this problem. Let me just hand over to the 397 00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:02.279 Exorcism guys to see if they can recode this. You know, everybodys using 398 00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:04.559 AAR to code, but you're using you know, you're using human humans to 399 00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:07.519 code about your app. Obviously just a joke. I don't think you're doing 400 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:11.160 that, but that would be interesting. Well, this is just like problems 401 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:14.759 on Exorcism though, right, Like you can't just put like custom code there 402 00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:18.799 and you know they'll fix it up for you. No, you have a 403 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.599 fixed set of exercise that you can work with and that's it. Although there 404 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.240 are maybe maybe you're doing what is it called mob programming or something like that, 405 00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:30.559 where everybody's just pounding on the keyboard and designing the website. No, 406 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:33.240 not yet, No, maybe I think just to like also like Clarify. 407 00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:40.319 Just so the the xism kind of like owning the code potentially legal stuff. 408 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:42.440 It might sound like a little weight, but that's the case for all like 409 00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:48.160 Coding Sight, like lead Code owns the code and they're not nonprofit code Wars 410 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:51.759 like everywhere you put your code, like any of these platforms, they own 411 00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:56.119 it, even repel it, which is like nonprofit. You you also like 412 00:25:56.200 --> 00:26:00.599 don't own the entire right, your foregoing that right because using their platform and 413 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.920 they can, you know, it's part of the part of the service they 414 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:07.440 provide. So it is the case for all of these. It's not exism 415 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:10.440 only just but I don't want, you know, excellent to like look bad 416 00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:12.920 in this like it's it's all the tools are like that. Come on, 417 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:18.920 now, let's talk about exorcisms. I talk about other people, but I 418 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:21.200 just wanted to. I just wanted to make sure they don't know that. 419 00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:22.480 Fine, no, no, no, they're the start of the show. 420 00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.839 We got to just talk about them only, right, So what else do 421 00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:27.519 you guys do. Let's take a look at this tnc together, right, 422 00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:33.799 yeah, no, no. If there's anybody listening that is interested in this 423 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.440 topic, we link to our privacy policy online and you should just read it 424 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:40.279 as we have the code and our service, so we have to have some 425 00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:44.920 sort of control over it, and we will use it to train our toolingk 426 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:48.160 to give you a better experience. But we never never sell any data or 427 00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:51.279 whatever, so we don't make the money. But there was one thing of 428 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:55.480 one V three feature which is probably the biggest one that I haven't yet discussed, 429 00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:57.559 and I did that sort of on purpose too, because that's where Alex 430 00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:03.400 really really shines and is arguably the best example on our website, and that's 431 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:08.640 concept exercises. So with v V two we had that reordering of the exercises, 432 00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:12.640 but the exercise that we reordered, they were not really designed to help 433 00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:17.519 you learn a language. They were just like cute puzzles, so like leap 434 00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:19.920 yer and et cetera, et cetera. But there was no such thing as 435 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:25.839 a designed exercise to help you learn about I don't know streams or agents or 436 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:29.880 Boollians or whatever. So a lot of the people know programming, but they 437 00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:33.319 no known programming in the language that they are now learning. So there's usually 438 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.160 if your complete newbie acism isn't really for you, you should know your coding 439 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.640 idioms at least a little bit, so that might change in the future. 440 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:45.440 We have interesting stuff that we are working on. But for V three, 441 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:49.480 what we wanted was to have, like design exercises that are specifically designed to 442 00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:55.079 help you learn a single thing. So what are strings in Elixir? And 443 00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:57.559 then the idea is that you have a curriculum, you have a syllabus. 444 00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.920 So you start out with debate. So you have to learn how to define 445 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:04.400 a function. You have to know how to maybe write comments. You have 446 00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:10.599 to know how to assign a value to a variable or whatever your language calls 447 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:14.599 it, and then maybe return it or do maybe arithmetic. So like the 448 00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:18.200 very very basics. So you do that exercise, you get exposed to it. 449 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.519 You have to use those concepts because that's how the exercises were designed. 450 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.920 And then once you're done checking the test is fine, then we say, 451 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:30.920 hey, you have now learned this. We have opened up more stuff for 452 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.599 you. So the next layer opens up, so then you get the slightly 453 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:37.960 more complex next so you maybe you move to bullyings and bullying ex expressions or 454 00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:42.119 maybe floating point numbers or whatever whatever, until you end up with maybe, 455 00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:47.480 I don't know, anonymous functions or or like agents, which is very advanced 456 00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:51.000 in the Elixir of course, so that's not something that a new student should 457 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:56.319 be working with immediately and unless they have already have a lot of background knowledge. 458 00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:59.640 So that's what we set out to do with V three and it's called 459 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:03.920 concept exercise or learning exercises what we renamed them because it's probably easier for people 460 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:08.079 to understand what they do. So you have learning exercise and practice exercises. 461 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:14.039 So learning is all about learning the concepts and then practice exercises to put them 462 00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:17.200 in practice basically, so to see how they how can you actually work with 463 00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:21.599 strings and maybe you can do subtly different things that you didn't do with that 464 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.640 learning exercise, and that's what in Elixer. We had a couple of lovely 465 00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:30.720 maintainers, so Angelica Tiborska and Tim tim hell I would say this is not 466 00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:36.440 Tim Tim Austen I think they were so great. So they really took upon 467 00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:41.400 themselves to build out the most awesome syllabus and it involves a lot of reviewing 468 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:45.640 on my apartment because they were so incredibly productive, and it ended up being 469 00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:48.920 in one of the exemplar tracks on ecodism, so it is really if if 470 00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.559 there are new people, I very often point them to the Elixit tract to 471 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:57.119 show them this is how it should be done. Proper structuring well written introductions 472 00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:02.759 like this is a concept explaining succinctly. You don't so don't want to maybe 473 00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:04.960 point out all the nitty gritty details of a feature. So if you're learning 474 00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:08.200 about strings, you don't have to know how it's implementing under the hood. 475 00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:11.720 If you're starting out, maybe you have a later exercise that goes into that. 476 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.440 But they did it such and in such a great way, so I 477 00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:18.759 really love what they were doing. But the downside is this has to be 478 00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:22.640 custom built, so even though text can sort of copy paste, modify, 479 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:27.119 it's still a lot of work because well, language are different. Otherwise there 480 00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:32.240 would be relatively little purpose to exorcism. So we have I don't know, 481 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:36.519 maybe ten inch tracks that have a proper syllabus, maybe a little bit more, 482 00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:38.400 but there are a lot of tracks that don't have it, and that's 483 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:42.200 absolutely fine. You can still learn the track by doing those practice exercises, 484 00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:47.519 but if you the full fleds V three experience is with the syllabus, So 485 00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:51.319 yeah, got a learning mode thing there's a learning mode like badge on some 486 00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:53.039 sanguages. That's what that is. That is, Yeah, yeah, it's 487 00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:56.440 it's a huge feature as a mentor in some of some of my groups. 488 00:30:56.519 --> 00:31:00.599 I have a part of a few mentorship groups, and of them like recommend 489 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:03.759 doing the learan track in Exorism. At this point, I know, I 490 00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:07.559 think it might some of the early ones might be a little too basic, 491 00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:10.759 but I think it still gets your confidence up. And you know, I 492 00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:14.839 think you have enough examples. One I haven't done. This is like after 493 00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:18.839 I stopped doing Exorism, all of these things came out and I was helping 494 00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.000 one of my mentees and there was a few process problems, like you could 495 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:26.680 have a gen server, you could even use a gen server or just a 496 00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:30.039 process and that problem, and like the tests were written such that, oh, 497 00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:32.720 if you're using a gen server, it would test for a presence of 498 00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:34.920 a gen server. And I think it's pretty cool, Like you know that 499 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:40.519 you have the same problem, but if for the loan syllabus, it enforces 500 00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:42.720 you doing it a certain way and stuff like that, it's really cool. 501 00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:47.160 I was very impressed. And yeah, I think I don't know if there's 502 00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:52.880 like tools that teach you gen server and some of these like ELEXA concepts at 503 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.119 this level, and I know exorcism ALEXA track doesn't have like you know, 504 00:31:56.359 --> 00:31:57.680 all of it yet and I'm sure you guys are working on it, but 505 00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:02.000 it's whatever it has. Also, like there's no platform that has that. 506 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:07.400 It was very useful, especially because that's like a that's a process as soon 507 00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:09.000 as you learn ALIXA, right. I have noticed a lot of people when 508 00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:12.160 they learn Alexa, they credit to get into phoenix it, you know, 509 00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:15.960 do like keep themselves silent into these like simple for lack of white simple projects 510 00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:22.640 or non concurrent projects and the OTP gen server sort of that remains a black 511 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:25.880 box for x X number of years. But having that as part of your 512 00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:30.319 syllabus, like I think it's like towards the end or somewhere towards the end. 513 00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:32.960 I can't get exactly. M Yeah, having that as part of syllabus 514 00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:36.960 encourages them to be like, Okay, I am qualified or I am at 515 00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:38.160 a point where I should be able to do this now, and you know, 516 00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:42.519 it encourages them to like start like demystifying that. I really like that 517 00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:45.200 about that syllables thing. Yeah, it's very easy to have like blind spots 518 00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:47.720 in a language where you just you keep on doing the stuff that you know, 519 00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:52.799 especially with languages that are changing a lot. So languages change in different 520 00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:55.680 ways. But if you would do I don't know Java seven and you would 521 00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:00.880 do Java twenty one, it's like a big difference. I used to have 522 00:33:00.920 --> 00:33:04.279 all sorts of preconceptions a by Jova because I had done it in university, 523 00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:08.039 which is way back year, and I was really I didn't like job, 524 00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:13.200 I fully admit it, but now I had to sort of relearn Java a 525 00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:15.960 little bit. It was like, wow, this is not the same language 526 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:19.839 anymore. So it's completely different, and I could have easily use the same 527 00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.319 things that I already know because well it's still back was compatible. I think, 528 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:24.920 so anything that I had learned back in the day would still work, 529 00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:29.200 but I would miss out on so much. And that's why having just the 530 00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:32.400 syllables and so that you can see this is there that can already already help, 531 00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:36.480 and then of course learning about them and why the exercise can help too. 532 00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:38.880 So yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, I think all these speeches 533 00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:43.200 are like really amazing. I think I think the mentorship, the way you 534 00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:47.319 talked about it for V three like not waiting on a mentor mentor's approval or 535 00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:52.200 whatever, and especially the syllables like learn aspect of it. Yeah, it's 536 00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:57.319 that stuff, and that's probably the unique selling point in my opinion for Excess 537 00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.200 And right now I think, yeah, awesome. So I guess, like 538 00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:04.119 we're approaching. Then I want to know, like what what's in the roadmap, 539 00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:06.559 like what else is coming? It could be I guess, like, 540 00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:07.880 I mean, if you have something specific to atract to be great too. 541 00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:13.360 But I think generally as a platform, like what what are the features you're 542 00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:15.960 looking for that you can talk about? I think, well, we will 543 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:20.079 still are trying to do in the future, is to have a platform where 544 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:23.360 you can learn programming, if where you don't have any of the background knowledge, 545 00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:28.199 so you you start out with zero programming knowledge and you slowly build up 546 00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:30.920 your skills, and then the idea is that you could you could learn that 547 00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:34.360 via and exorcism like to although with well, there will be a lot of 548 00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:37.960 different features, but something like that we would really love to build. Other 549 00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:40.880 than that, what I can talk about, it's it's very hard. We 550 00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:45.159 will keep on adding new languages, so that's actually it used to being quite 551 00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:50.280 static, so occasionally we would have a new language. But somehow we now 552 00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:52.880 have a we have a form where people can discuss things. People start getting 553 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:58.079 more enthusiastic about building these things, and we have much better documentation nowadays, 554 00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:00.519 so it's easier to get started building a new track. So we see lots 555 00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:04.679 of new languages being added, and language I hadn't heard of at all. 556 00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.960 I don't know if you've ever heard of pirates. No, okay, well 557 00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:12.199 that's added. And we have people taking old languages too, so we have 558 00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:15.800 we have Cobol for example, we have four truands well the fourtron is still 559 00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:20.280 used of course in Cobol too, but very niche new languages. I'm not 560 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:22.920 building together with somebody else, an R two er track, which is a 561 00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:28.320 stack based track. We have. We have a ton of really interesting languages, 562 00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:31.960 and people start building these quicker and quicker because it's apparently it's easier now 563 00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:37.159 for them, which makes me good because I wrote a lot of the documentations, 564 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.199 so there wasn't for nothing, and yeah, no, I think just 565 00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:44.199 having so many different tracks and that in the future we would love to have 566 00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:47.599 something where if you would progress from one track to another track, that we 567 00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:52.760 could sort of use your background knowledge. So if you come to Sea Shore 568 00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:55.519 from a Java background, a lot of what you know is really really valid, 569 00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.320 but there are a couple of things that you need to know, so 570 00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:00.639 we could maybe do a bit of more like cross off things from the syllabus 571 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:05.880 or maybe only highlight the things nice stuff like that. Something we would really 572 00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:10.280 love to maybe at one point have something like translating content, but that's really 573 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:14.639 a hard problem because we have so many different things. But with AI that 574 00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:20.719 becomes maybe more useful because well chet GPT four oh is quite quite nice in 575 00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:24.039 translating stuff, but it's still a lot of content and it's rapidly changing too, 576 00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:28.440 so we would need to account for that fact. But yeah, that's 577 00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:30.320 what I was thinking in my head is like, like you said, the 578 00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:34.840 mentors, right, they don't need they may not always have time, right, 579 00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:37.880 So is there been an effort to use chet TPT or something else to 580 00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:43.039 actually start to valuid code. Yeah, so if you are an exorcism, 581 00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:45.679 you can have a difficult premium. We changed the name. I forgot the 582 00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:50.880 name, sorry, but you can sponsor us. Basically we rely on sponsorship 583 00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:53.440 of people for our income. So if you sponsor us for a little bit, 584 00:36:53.480 --> 00:36:58.079 then you get access to jet GPT integration, where you can ask questions 585 00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:04.119 via JETDPT without having to confer with a mentor. I've USEDTPT a lot myself, 586 00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:07.599 and it's so dependent on the language whether or not you you get used 587 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:09.559 for output. I still have a lot of hate relationship with l lms, 588 00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:14.639 so it can be incredibly useful, but it can also be very frustrating that 589 00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:16.960 just doesn't really get it. So yeah, we do have a little bit 590 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:20.719 of that, and I expect that will be more in the future because they 591 00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:22.920 would just keep on getting better. I guess, yes, that's really cool. 592 00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:29.000 I think I think it exorism insiders. I think that's probably. Yeah, 593 00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:32.840 it's very hard. The reason why I do it is I were dark 594 00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:37.760 mode and it's okay, yeah, that's that's that's a cool feature too. 595 00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:40.679 But yeah, all of this is super exciting. Eric, thanks so much 596 00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:44.000 for i mean coming here and sharing it, and thanks so much for you 597 00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:46.000 know, all the work you guys are doing it, you know, providing 598 00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:50.679 this kind of a tool for free, you know, being a nonprofit and 599 00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:53.480 you know, like it adds a lot to the community. It's being used 600 00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:58.480 heavily at least I mean I personally don't use it, but I know i'm 601 00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.440 myself and my friends to mentor others, they use it heavily. This is 602 00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:05.800 like one of our tools that we like recommend to people who want to learn 603 00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:07.199 LICKS right away and to those who are listening. I know a lot of 604 00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:10.639 our listeners are big in this, And just last week I got an email 605 00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:14.360 from one of our listeners like, hey, what are some of the you 606 00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:17.840 know, suggestions to learn LICKS? And I again said Exorcism, like and 607 00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:22.039 it's it's it's great, like like just a week later we have this recording. 608 00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:24.360 This will probably go like three weeks after we're recording right now, but 609 00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:28.920 it's like it happens very often. I'm sure Alan gets emails as well from 610 00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:30.800 our listeners like how could how to learn licks? You know what did you 611 00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:35.320 get a job? Well, we have a great track, like you can 612 00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:37.360 start from like you know, very basics, and yeah, like I said, 613 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:42.039 having some knowledge of programming is good, but my wife started from scratch 614 00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:46.079 and shared Exorcism for Ruby and Alixir, and she had zero coding experience, 615 00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:49.159 nothing, and you know, you know, she got a job in a 616 00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:52.679 couple of months, just yeah exorcism, And obviously she also had an interview 617 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:57.480 boot camp on top of it that helped a lot. But having done these 618 00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:02.320 these kind of like coding problems, gain confidence and have like a vetted syllabus 619 00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:07.119 that you know, helps you get to a more confident like place where you 620 00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:10.559 can call yourself, Oh, I'm an Alexa developer like that. That is 621 00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:15.239 super important. So again, thanks for everything Axism is doing. Really appreciate 622 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:19.360 that. Yeah, our pleasure. There's always those stories where sometimes you forget 623 00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:22.519 that you're doing this for actual people, can just get boged down in the 624 00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:25.280 technology itself and then you get this email from somebody was life changing. So 625 00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:29.800 they got a job with somebody was like they were homeless, and at some 626 00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:34.480 point they find their exposure to ecorism, they learned closure really well. Now 627 00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:37.519 they have a proper job and they have a house, and it's like you 628 00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:39.960 can really make an impact. And sometimes it's easy to forget that. I'm 629 00:39:40.039 --> 00:39:45.039 definitely I do forget it too much, but sometime you have to sort of 630 00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:49.199 pause and appreciate what it can also do for people and completely change lives. 631 00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:52.400 Although that sounds really dramatic. Of course, a lot of people like myself 632 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:54.079 is just fun, but for some people it can really change things. So 633 00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:57.480 yeah, I mean, I don't think it sounds dramatic at all. I 634 00:39:57.519 --> 00:40:01.119 think everyone needs to like fulfill that desire to want to do good to the 635 00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:04.679 world, and I think this I think. I mean, I can't even 636 00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:07.719 imagine how many emails you get, but I have seen people who have really 637 00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:10.280 benefit from exicism. And yeah, again, thank you so much for the 638 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:14.360 entire team. A don do you want to add anything before? My question 639 00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:16.079 is, weren't even to write this platform in Elixtra like it should be. 640 00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:22.519 That's my question. Maybe we would have chosen differently if we would start it 641 00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:27.440 right now. We've definitely talked about using a elixture for tooling of us. 642 00:40:27.519 --> 00:40:30.599 We haven't yet done it, I have to admit, but I absolutely love 643 00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:34.360 Elixtura as a language too and as as a platform and how it exposed. 644 00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:37.840 It also helps popularize functional program so that's always something I really enjoy. And 645 00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:42.400 other than that, it has a lot of stylistic choices that I really really 646 00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:45.880 like. We do these weekly videos where we take one exercise, we have 647 00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:50.800 a challenge forty eight and twenty four, so forty eight different exercises and each 648 00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:53.519 week we feature one and there are three feature tracks that you solve them in. 649 00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:57.760 We have a video where we just try to discuss all the different ways 650 00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.800 in which you can solve it. And we read very very regular feature elixi 651 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:06.320 because they're always just this. It's different than other languages. It offers a 652 00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:10.000 lot of stuff that other lens don't and the guard clauses it's just really really 653 00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:14.800 cool. So we feature liks for a lot. Awesome. Well, hopefully 654 00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:17.639 hopefully some of the next two skary built in Alexa. But even if it's 655 00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:21.159 not, like, having such a good track is such a it's a great 656 00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:23.360 contribution to the community. Awesome. I guess Eric, if you have nothing 657 00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:28.119 else to share, we can move to pis. Yeah. Sure, Alan, 658 00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:30.599 they want to go first. Yeah, you know, I sponsored this 659 00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:32.679 bag. Have you guys ever heard of orbit Key? I think maybe Addie 660 00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:37.440 you have the company. Okay, maybe it was somebody else I'm confusing with, 661 00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:39.159 but so it's a company called orbit Key. They make some kind of 662 00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:44.679 interesting stuff, like designer kind of thing, but some interesting kind of design 663 00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:47.280 method of it, so like, for instance, actually have it over here, 664 00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:51.480 so this is like my key ring. Now it's kind of interesting. 665 00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:53.760 You probably a keys on here. You guys can't see at home obviously if 666 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:58.000 you're listening. But anyways, what I like about is that usually I just 667 00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:00.360 put, like you know, the traditional key ring put in my pocket, 668 00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:04.280 scratches up all my stuff. I got this orbit Key thing. It's works 669 00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:06.920 pretty well, you know, it kind of keeps myself organized. But what 670 00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:08.159 I wanted to say is that they came out with this thing. I think 671 00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:10.760 I think it was finally released. I was a background it and it's called 672 00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:14.480 orbit Key two in one tech pouch. I don't know about you guys, 673 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:16.480 but sometimes I'm switching bags, and so what I wanted was just something I 674 00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:19.679 could put my most common stuff in so I could just you know, if 675 00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:22.280 I want to change bag, I just changed that bag. It comes with 676 00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:25.280 this interesting desk pouch, so you put your stuff usually work with in the 677 00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:29.239 desk pouch. The desk pouts comes out of the big pouch and you can 678 00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:30.760 kind of put on your desk and pack away. I see Audi's face. 679 00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:35.239 I'm not sure if he's excited or not, like confused. No, I'm 680 00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:39.519 just I'm just like it's always funny when people come up with so problems I 681 00:42:39.559 --> 00:42:45.320 don't even know existed problem. Yeah, but I mean what it came down 682 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:46.960 to was like I bought this orbit key box and it's just too small. 683 00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:51.440 Like he's a tech guy, you got tons of wires. Everything's got its 684 00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:54.320 own wire. Thank after USBC, we're getting closer. But but so the 685 00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:59.360 problem with USBC now is not about finding the right connector right now is do 686 00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:01.960 you have enough? That's the issue I have now. So now I'm just 687 00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:05.800 jamming cables in there for any case. What I want to say was like, 688 00:43:06.199 --> 00:43:08.079 it's just perfect size for me. I could probably use a little bit 689 00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:10.519 bigger, but in general, like mostly everything I want to carry with fits 690 00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:14.400 inside. The way it works is pretty cool, so I'm pretty happy about 691 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:15.760 it. I just came in for me like last week, so yeah, 692 00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:19.360 I just want to say, check it out. It's pretty interesting things. 693 00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:22.000 So if you like me, gotta keep switching bags, take a look at 694 00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:23.920 it. Yeah. Now I didn't mention it. I do remember you're picking 695 00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:27.960 the key a few months ago, So yeah, I didn't runin the name. 696 00:43:28.039 --> 00:43:30.800 But it's very very cool. It's not a problem I'm familiar with, 697 00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:34.719 but I'm sure people have that problem. That's really cool, Eric, you 698 00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:37.719 gotta pick for us, so I could be anything, right, anything, 699 00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:42.760 Yes, So my picks would be adaptations of games. So I used to 700 00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:45.719 I'm quite a movie I was a movie addict, but I'm not anymore because 701 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:49.599 I don't have the time. So I tried to pick my series because I 702 00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:52.559 like watching series now because I can split it up. But gaming adaptations will 703 00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:57.039 always really really awful. Although I have a soft spot for the Mortal Come 704 00:43:57.039 --> 00:44:00.119 Met movie, but like Street Fright, I really didn't like that. But 705 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:05.400 now there are just a couple of really really excellent adaptations. So I've watched 706 00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:07.760 the Last of Us and another big zombie fan, but the Last of Us 707 00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:13.239 was excellent, and then I tried fall Out and to my big surprise, 708 00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:15.599 that was fantastic too, So I was like, if you're into if you 709 00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:20.800 know those games, do check out their adaptations too. So I really love 710 00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:22.880 it, and I love them more than the games actually, so plus one 711 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:27.800 plus one, especially to the Fallout pick. I just watched it last weekend 712 00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:30.280 read a long weekend in the US, and my wife and I watched it 713 00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:35.280 on Friday. We just like ben shit and it made me want to replay 714 00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.440 fall Out four and that's I just lept for like ten hours the entire weekend. 715 00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:40.559 I just played forllart four. It's the series is so good and yeah, 716 00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:44.199 it's really awesome. Plus one of that pick, I actually got a 717 00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:46.880 couple more picks too on top of it. Or want to give a shout 718 00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:52.199 out to CROXEO again last last I think a couple of weeks ago I mentioned 719 00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:55.679 they are looking for offering mentorship. There's also you can take like a training 720 00:44:55.719 --> 00:45:00.280 course, which is obviously paid, but they have this like mentorship session that 721 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:02.760 goes on a weekly cadence. I joined every now and then as one of 722 00:45:02.800 --> 00:45:07.920 the mentors. But they taken people from like underrepresented groups. So if you're 723 00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:09.840 listening and you're one of them, you want to learn ALIXA hit me up 724 00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:13.679 or you can you know, hit Bruce State up. Bruce State leads them. 725 00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:15.280 So yeah, it's great. One of the things to do in the 726 00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:20.039 sessions is exorcism. But you get to you know, ask your questions to 727 00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:22.400 your mentors. You know, they help you with like finding jobs. I 728 00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:25.320 mean knowing Bruce State is like it's like I don't know that to me, 729 00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:30.519 Like Bruce State is like very high in the celebrity list. Like if in 730 00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:32.119 one room there's tale Is Swift, in another room there's Bruce Date. I'll 731 00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:36.039 probably go and talk to Bruce State and get his autograph even though I already 732 00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:38.760 have it. But yeah, so have having access to someone like that and 733 00:45:38.920 --> 00:45:44.039 having like mentors who are in that group will not only help you feel more 734 00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:45.920 confident and learn it looks a better, but also will you know, connections 735 00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:49.639 are very important to get jobs and stuff. So yeah, if you're from 736 00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:52.679 one of the underrepresented COMMU groups, you probably know if you are, so 737 00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:55.679 hit me up, hit Bruce State up. If you're not from one of 738 00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:59.440 them, you still want that mentorship, and there's a paid one. It's 739 00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:04.159 on Drock grox do. Iow it's a very good training session. I haven't 740 00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:06.159 done it, but I know people who have done it and they really like 741 00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:09.320 it. It's called Professional Alexair slash OTP and it starts in July, but 742 00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:14.079 you can start signing it up for now. It's two days or three days 743 00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:17.599 something like that, but they cover everything and like kind of once you're part 744 00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:22.719 of the groxy community, you are always for life out of grossy community. 745 00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:25.559 That's something Bruce State says, So, yeah, a great way to build 746 00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:30.119 connections and learn Alixir. Another pick, I just kind of picked it. 747 00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:34.360 I didn't know what pirate. Eric just mentioned it. I just quickly quickly 748 00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:37.840 check it out as a functional programming language, and it looks quite interesting. 749 00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:39.480 I'm definitely going to try it, and you know, a great time for 750 00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:43.880 me to also get try to get back into exorcism. I'll probably like try 751 00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:47.079 out the practice a few exercises there, and the language looks interesting. So 752 00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:51.480 yeah, like I said, there's seventy plus languages not aspired, like if 753 00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:53.800 you want to try languages, is clean track as well. And I also, 754 00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:58.519 yeah, that's and they also have a learn I didn't realize that they 755 00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:01.119 have a learning a syllabus. So Gleam is an amazing language. One of 756 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:07.320 my favorite people is the creator of gleam. Louis is such an awesome person. 757 00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:09.519 Yeah, so yeah, prior to Gleam, I mean, just just 758 00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:13.719 check out exercision. You know, we have we had we had some raxism. 759 00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:15.840 It's a great reminder that's such a tool exists in the community to check 760 00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:19.559 it out. That's my other pick. All right, So I think that's 761 00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:22.880 it for today. Eric goes great having you. I'm sure we'll have you 762 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:27.159 again in the future when there's more updates and step from Mexicism. Yeah, 763 00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:29.840 thanks for the time and again thanks for everything you guys. Doo. Yeah, 764 00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:31.119 thanks for having me. It's my pleasure. All right. That's it 765 00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:35.079 for today, guys, We'll see you next week. Bye.