Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and
we have a great show this evening. I'm pretty excited about our guest,
Seth Breedlove. I'll talk about him in just a second. I do want
to say that I do have a little bit of housekeeping, so I want
everyone to please excuse the website. We're under going some work on it and
it's being migrated. Hopefully it's active when you're checking it out, and you
do want to go over there at this podcast UFO dot com, by the
way, but you want to go over there because we have a great blog.
It's one of two by Charles Leer and it's called the Kelly, Kentucky
UFO Goblins. I don't know if anyone's ever looked into the Hopkinsville Goblins are
called, or there's all different types of names for it. But this happened
back I believe it was August in nineteen fifty five, and it seems like
in the fifties there was a lot of things going on. It's a great
story if you have not heard about it. It was actually a horrific night
for a family. I think their name was the Langfords, and they were
dealing with these beings that were on the roof and there was fire, shot
shots fired, fire shot shots fired, and again it was a horrific night
for that family. And again it's this is the first part of that story.
Check it out over at podcast ufo dot com. I want to thank
everyone that supports the show. Anyone can do that, and we are encouraging
people to go to Patreon. We have a banner on a website that's linked
right to the Patreon page and there's also an RSS feed over there for your
media player. Our guest tonight is Seth Breedlove and he's an Ohio filmmaker and
he's written, edited, and produced and directed shorts in features about a variety
of topics, but he's best known for his production company and films they've produced
under the small Town Monsters banner. I was talking to him earlier, we
were talking about cities and small towns, so I like that title for him.
It fits him well. Seth helped launch in episodic series under the title
of On the Trail of and we're going to be talking about On the Trail
of UFOs. He produced the first season along with his wife and went on
to direct, shoot, and edit the second season, which focused on Bigfoot,
and then of course he turned his attention to UFOs, which we'll be
talking about tonight. And this year, Seth will also direct The Mothman Legacy.
That's I always thought that was pretty fascinating, and the Mark of the
bell Witch that I've heard of but I don't know anything about. We may
touch on those topics later. Welcome to the show, Seth. Yeah,
thanks so much for having me. Yeah, Seth, so you've study a
lot of different topics. It must be hard to keep, uh, you
know, informed about all of them. How do you get all your information
on, you know, for the things you're looking into. It's it's funny.
It was a lot easier when I had a full time job because as
weird as that sounds, because what I what I used to do, like
what I got did when I got into all this was medical billing. And
when I was doing the medical billing job, there's there's nothing There was nothing
else for me to do in between all the data entry other than like listen
to podcasts and and so I found like I could listen to podcasts, I
could listen to old radio shows and stuff like that. Which is how I
sort of disc like the the the old Flatwood's Monster radio interviews and stuff like
that. I found I used to have a much easier time of digesting information
than I do, uh these days. So the way I do it now
is I have to very consciously set aside time in between each project, and
every year it gets a little more difficult because each year we're adding more and
more projects. So I mean, if you you know, in the beginning,
it was one maybe two in a year, and usually we were shooting,
you know, every every couple of months. This year, there was
there was rarely a month that went by or we weren't doing some sort of
like in the field production work, especially with on the Trail of UFOs filming,
which ended up being a close to thirty day shoot, which for us
is a really extensive period of time for us to be doing anything. So
we shot that over the course of three three different sort of major trips,
and and then that included that encompass to all the states that you see in
this series. So so anyway that the short answer is I have to make
time to really sit down and start taking in information for whatever I'm working on
next. But we Also, in the last year have brought on a research
assistant named Heather Moser who's been helping me a lot with all the different projects.
She did not work on on the trail of UFOs, which is interesting
because it's like the largest number of interviews we've ever ever had into anything,
but she's hard at work on the Mathman Legacy and the Mark of the Bowich
and she helped out with our Momo the Missouri Monster project as well, so
she's she has been a huge part of being able to get all the stuff
done that I need to get done. Wow. Interesting, Now did you
actually you know, was the UFO was part of something you looked into,
you know, young, or is this something that you just you know,
took on as far as the rest of the series of things you're doing.
Yeah, I think it was. Actually UFOs were kind of an interest for
me before most of the other stuff, which is interesting because I've focused much
more heavily on cryptids, especially Bigfoot since we launched on small town Monsters.
But it was UFOs that I was really into in the beginning, and especially
that very early era of UFO research, like the nineteenth the late forties,
and in early fifties really piqued my interest because it was so much it was
rooted so much in like the government involvement, and I always loved the idea
of the They sort of not loved the idea, but the shadowy government conspiracy
side of that always appealed to me, especially that sort of just getting into
the Cold War era, So that stuff always appealed to me, and I
was very much interested in it. And we have touched We've touched on the
UFO topic in a number of our projects. I guess the first is probably
The Moth me at a Point Pleasant, where we where we did discuss some
of the UFO sightings that were going on around Point Pleasant in the sixties.
And then we got into The Flatwood's Monster, which is very much a UFO
film in my opinion. I mean, it's all about you know, UFOs
over over the state of West Virginia. So we've touched on it, but
I don't think I don't think we had ever really had a chance to really
sort of fully invest ourselves in it, and that was exciting to me when
we decided to hit hit this project. And I guess the hardest thing too
for me though, as someone who's into the topic of UFOs but has never
invested myself or not invested myself, but it has never sort of put put
my toe in the waters of the UFO community. That was a little intimidating
just coming into it, because you're aware that we're we're always trying to appeal
to an audience of people who might not be aware of the UFOTO, you
know, And that's good. Yeah, And that's that's kind of how we
come at this stuff every project we do, and we do that mainly because
that seems to be our core audience or people who were just sort of starting
to get into these topics. So when we hit upon this, it was
it was perfect for me because I felt like, in a lot of ways,
I was learning along with the audience. So even though I've been interested
in UFOs for a long time, a lot of this stuff that we were
including in the series, I had just learned or was learning, especially like
the airship waves has been fascinating for me for the last year, and my
friend Mark and I had really done a deep dive on that topic for our
podcast, And because of that, that's why airships ended up on the trail
of UFOs. Is because it was something I was excited about at the time.
Same way with we did an entire episode, episode number six about mystery
lights, and that's why we we That's something I've just gotten into the last
year or so. It's a passion project in a way. But also,
you know, it's not yeah, well, you know, we do have
there's a lot of people that are seasoned listeners that have been paying attention to
this topic a long time, but there's also I hear from new people listening
to the show all the time, new people that are interested in this topic,
and it's the topic is new to them. So a lot of times,
you know, I don't think to get into a description of something.
It's not a good thing that sometimes I just assume that someone knows what Roswell
was or Kecksburg or any other sighting phoenix sites or you name it. But
it really is good. You know. Maybe it's a little boring to some
people that's heard the story over and over again, but for the new person
out there that's looking for information, I think it's great and that we should,
you know, explain a little more. And I did watch your series.
I watch the screeners, and I agree you you actually are. There
was a lot of things I knew of, but some of the things I
learned too, So let's see. That's that's that's the biggest That's the biggest
compliment for me is that I honestly expected this to be a series that that
sort of UFO the people that are educated on the UFO subject might not get
as much out of it. But we very consciously we're trying to hit that
middle ground where yes, we're putting a bunch of information in here that's already
out there, but we're also trying to give enough breadcrumbs that that someone that's
well educated on the subject can follow along too and find things that are interesting.
I think I think the key is, honestly what is said in the
first episode, which is that we were going to put the focus back on
the people. So so so many of like the the television shows and stuff
about this subject are about actors running through the woods chasing lights in the sky,
and that just wasn't something we wanted to do. And what I really
wanted to do was was let that the investigators and researchers we talked to sort
of tell the story of ufology, but also let us have some insight into
who they are as well, and that goes doubly for for witnesses and experiencers
we talked to, Like, I think you can't you can't have a series
like this if you're not going to you know, have a good number of
witnesses and people that are willing to talk about their own experiences with the subject.
And I think that's what keeps people like yourself maybe invested as well,
is that, you know, like, for for all the information you might
know about like Area fifty one, you probably had never heard Dan Weis's story,
and Dan Dan is the you know, the witness we interviewed in the
first episode. I don't know why I talk about Dan probably more than anyone
in this entire series. He's he's a friend of mine and he had told
me that story years ago and it's always stuck with me. And I think
the reason it really stands out is because if you go to the spot and
you see where he claimed this happened, it's the most bizarre thing to have
happened in that location because it's such a populated area. Yeah, yeah,
Dan, Dan was just a little kid. This would have been the very
early nineties and him and his sister were staying at their grandmother's house. Him
and both of his sisters actually were staying at their grandmother's house, and they
had gone outside for a walk, and and actually it was just him and
his older sister, and then his other older sister had also been out for
a walk, but they weren't together. They were walking, and they they
fixed for some reason, something caught their attention off to the east. They
were in a town called Barberton, Ohio, and it's a populated town.
It's a it's a very I would I would hesitate to call it a city,
but it's basically a large suburb of Akron, so it's a part of
Acron. Essentially, it's a very populated area. They were in a populated
section of town, they were walking, they something caught their gaze. They
looked off to the east and what they saw was a light or I guess
a series of flashing lights in the sky that he said looked like a carnival
ride, you know, like I can't remember the name of the specific ride
he referenced, but but there's a ride you know that actually looks like a
UFO with the flashing lights all around the edge and that's essentially what he thought
he saw coming across the sky, and him and his sister saw it.
His other sister who was coming up the road at the same time, saw
it, and then a jogger who was coming down the road at the same
time saw it. So you had three three of the kid three of the
west children see it, and then this other guy that they ran into saw
it as well. The object came across the sky sort of seemed to hover
and then go down behind these trees, which would be the only section of
the area that is not neighborhood, how built residential buildings, commercial buildings.
Is this giant forest that sits in the middle of this town. It seemed
to hover and go down behind the trees into that forested area. They never
saw it leave, They just saw it together. And and now there isn't
there. There are some some some things that are involved in that story that
I would really want to get back into at some point. One of them
is the fact that there seemed to be a number of minds under Barberton.
In fact, the minds that are down there stretch all the way to Lake
Erie, which is about forty miles to the north and these were I don't
want to say salt minds. I can't remember what kind of mind they were,
but they there's also there's so large the minds down there are so large
that they actually store they stored all the old excavator earth movers and excavators down
there as well, and these are still down there as far as I can
Fine, So we're curious to do a little bit of digging into the no
pun intended, we're we're curious to do a little bit of digging into what
actually is in that forest and maybe beneath that forest. Because the other part
of that story that got left out is that Dan is almost convinced that shortly
after their sighting there was a fence erected around the forested area. Now we
went, we went back there, and it looks to us like you can
get in there today. So there's no there's no fence. So he's not
he's not positive he's remembering that, right, you know. I mean I
think he was, like, I think he was like nine years old at
the time, so he was pretty going. But he was almost positive that
they had put up this fence after the fact. Yeah, So anyway that
that event really affected him, and I think the episode it all takes place
in episode one. I think episode one, you get a good sense that
it affected him in a major way, to the point where he's still really
curious about it today. And he talks to his sister on the phone in
the episode and you can kind of hear her corroborate history and she thinks about
it as well. I just think that that the effect that even just seeing
something for seven seconds in the sky can have on a witness is really impactful.
Oh. Absolutely absolutely. I was I'm going to bring up someone that's
on your show because I've I've was friends on Facebook and know this gentleman and
he contacted me, I don't know a couple of years ago and he said,
hey, you remember you were at my house and looking at my antiques
and for auction and all that stuff. And I said, oh, yeah,
yeah, yeah, how you doing and all this stuff. And he
goes, well, guess what, I'm listening to your show and you had
him on your show. Dean Merchant. Oh Dean, yeah, yeah,
yeah, Dean's great. We The strangest thing about Dean's interview is that it
was I mean, that's one thing. You what you've seen is eight episodes
on the Trail of viet Those features almost thirty interviews, clocking in it over
two hundred and seventy minutes, and we still have enough content that we could
have cut four or five more episodes, Like if time and money weren't it
an object, we would have easily had another four or five episode, three
or four episodes in there, and Dean would have been featured in another few
because he had a lot of information about a lot of topics that we never
actually got to in this season. So we're really hoping to be able to
do multiple seasons. But Dean's are really knowledgeable. I call him like a
UFO historian because I don't know what else to refer to him, as he's
not crazy about like the investigator or researcher, you know label. Right,
Well, I invited him on this show and he's possibly going to come on
at some time in April or May something like that. And he's got like
great New England accent too. Oh yeah, yeah yeah. The funniest thing
about his New England accent was I shipped off his I have to send off
the interviews to be transcribed, and this time around, I hired a service
that was computerized, and the computer had no idea what was happening. His
reading his interview is one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life.
Oh that's a riot. I hope, I hope you let him know
that. Yeah, I'll have to. Yeah, I haven't yet. Yeah,
Oh that's great. That's great. And so we're going into breaking about
four minutes or so that if you would, Well, first of all,
Shannon Lgrow from Las Vegas, if I remember right, she's like the lead
person. Basically, it's it looks, you know, it appears from watching
the videos that it's basically her in the lead. But you you're there and
you're you're throwing some questions to some of the people. And so, how
did you find She's a very nice woman? How did you find Shannon?
We've Shannon and I have been friends since before I started Smalltime Monsters, and
wedly enough we met at a Finding Bigfoot town hall taping town hall meeting taping
here in Ohio back in twenty fourteen, during this very short period of time
where she lived in Ohio. So we met in twenty fourteen, and then
she worked with me last year. She was in one episode, well,
she's in three episodes of On the Trail of Bigfoot, but we were together
out in the out in the field for one episode of On the Trailer of
Bigfoot, which is the final episode, episode six, and I liked the
way we worked together and her approach to witness interviews and just her approach to
these topics in general is really similar sort of to mine. And also I
don't really like being on camera. I was on camera for On the Trailer
of Bigfoot. I was the lead for that series, and I kind of
hated it. So I asked her if she would sort of be the you
know, the face and the voice of on the Trailer of UFOs. So
it is it's her story, you know, in her stories that she's joining
us to make to make the series. I mean, we don't really make
up hooks, you know. I think a TV show would have made up
some sort of hook for this. We didn't really do that. It's it's
pretty much explicitly stated in the first episode she's going on her own journey to
learn about the subject, and she's joining small town monsters as we make the
series to do it. So it you know, we try to we try
to do pretty much everything is honestly and upfront us we can possibly be with
this sort of thing, you know. She she's leading a lot of the
the interviews especially, and I think I think as as the person sort of
at the center of it, she she does a terrific job of anchoring the
whole thing right right. And you know, there's actually you know, speaking
of Las Vegas, No Peggy who runs our Facebook page, and but there's
a lot that actually happened in Las Vegas. There's a lot of sightings.
You know. Yeah, I'm friends with someone that is not into UFOs and
she found out I was. She's in the She was actually on TV for
I can't remember the channel, but she basically did decorating and stuff like that.
And I've known her for a while and she said, oh, you
guess I just saw your show in UFOs, And she started telling me about
this amazing, huge black triangle she saw right outside of our hotel room and
down to Las Vegas. Pretty amazing phoenix. The Phoenix lights were also seen
in Vegas. Which was like something that I found when we were interviewing David
Weatherley for the for the series, is that there were sightings of the Phoenix
Las in Vegas, which I had never heard of before. So yeah,
I'm not I'm not as in the loop. Yeah, Okay, Well it's
we're gonna head into break, so everyone hanging there. We'll be right back
right after. These messages still live on YouTube, and so let's let's talk
on miss break here. Let's let's talk a little bit about what happens in
in Ohio. Have you looked I mean, actually a lot of things happen
in Ohio in particular, but is that something you've ever looked into as far
as the UFOO sightings? And yeah, yeah. The most frustrating part about
this first season of On the Trail of the UFOs was we didn't get to
do the coin incident at the coincident because yeah, yeah, because that was
like I actually spoke at a moufon conference. I was asked to speak at
a moufon conference this past year, and that was my first time really learning
about it. Again, I'm a newbie, so take it easy on me,
but but I had never been aware of that incident. And what really
it's it's kind of clues you into like what a monster nerd I am,
because like the thing that caught my attention about it is where the where the
the UFFO first intercepted the helicopter would have been right over Charles the Charles Mill
Lake and Charles Mill Lake in the fifties had a really famous local monster called
the Charles Mill Lake Monster, which was sort of a creature from the Black
Lagoon type monster. And so as soon as they said something about Charles Mill
Lake had piqued my interest was what was really cool about that was the fire
chief of the county was there. And it turned out that the fire chief
back when the incident took place, when when the coin helicopter incident took place,
that the fire chief was a teenager and him and like twenty other kids
saw the UFO intercept the helicopter from the ground, So I had I was
really excited about the idea of doing some retelling of that incident on the trail
of Bufo. So I'm really hoping we can get a season two off the
ground because I'd love to do that. But beyond that, Portage, the
Portage Lake or the Portage County UFO chase is one of my always been one
of my favorite UFO stories. I'm super fascinated and that we've got a couple
of minutes, can you talk about that. The coin one always fascinated me
as well. And basically a UFO actually levitated a helicopter, It actually grows
up. It was very scary and anyone could check that out if you just
go into coin. I don't I can't remember if that spelled CEO why And
it's like see I think I think it's CEO y n E. And they
were flying. They were flying from an air base in Cleveland, down town,
I think he said, in Mansfield, you know, and they if
you if you know the area that's Charles Milwake is like right in between those
two two locations, and so I guess yeah, they started sort of they
had basically what amounts to like a I mean, it was it was a
long period of time when they essentially had almost like a dog fight. And
what was interesting to me was the crew of this helicopter, despite what should
have been sort of a really intimidating or at the at the very least intimidating,
if not downright terrifying encounter, they were never actually scared. In fact,
like they all sort of talked about how how they were all more fascinated
and excited by what they were seeing. In the entire crew of this helicopter,
we're witnesses to whatever this object was, and they will corroborate this story.
One of them is still detective in Cleveland today, one of the crew,
and the other one recently moved. One of the other ones moved down
to Atlanta and as a member of the police department in Atlanta. And I
can't remember what happened to everyone else. Going back on yep, all right,
welcome back. My guest is Seth Breedlow, and we were actually talking
during the break up. You mentioned a famous UFO case in Ohio that is
one of your favorites, and I ever heard of it. Can you tell
me what that case is called? Again? The Coin No, the other
one, the Portage County. Yeah, I don't know of that one.
I'm pretty sure you do. It's it's given a lot of different names.
The reason why I call it the Portage County UFO chases because it originated in
Portage County. But it's the one where the where the two police officers started
getting calls about about a UFO, they see it and they proceed to chase
it. All the way into Pennsylvania. Yes, I know, yes,
uh huh yeah, and they're told they're told it's a it's being they're chasing
the plane at Venus essentially with other, you know, law enforcement officials from
all over the the state sort of joining in. But I call it Portage
County because that first patrol car that goes rushing towards Pennsylvania was actually in Portage
County, which is only like fifteen minutes from where I live. But that's
always been one of the most fascinating to me because of the the way the
policemen were treated simply for reporting what they encounter, that's right, and how
many there were quite a few involved. Was it something like six or was
it I think I want to say it was six, but it might have
been more than that. And I heard a great talk about this like a
year ago. I can't remember the guy's name. Now that's going to drive
me crazy. But but I've always been really fascinated with that story because it's
so close to us. But I'm I'm always drawn to stories more because of
the human component and the and the way that that story negatively affected the witnesses.
I always thought was really really kind of sad and spoke. So it
sort of speaks to the to the larger way witnesses are treated in general,
or at least were treated, particularly at that time for coming forward with the
sighting, and especially if you were working in law enforcement. It seems like
it was a really just a terribly negative thing that ended up honestly destroying the
careers of a few of those guys that were involved in it. That's that's
not that's not unusual. Unfortunately. What do you think if I ask you
this question, do you think you know anything more about this topic of what
these things might be or do you think you know less about it since you
actually went into this. Uh, I think I probably know. I think
I probably know a little bit less. If you're going on and you're trying
to sort of subscribe to one of those and then you realize that there aren't
a lot of commonalities between encounters. There are, but there aren't, and
you know, we point them out in episode two. I think we tried
to do it a somewhat decent job of pointing out some of the commonalities and
like craft descriptions, and you can definitely like start drawing from the data you
know as far as what all the all the what we're putting out in the
series, you can start to draw from that and draw lines between some things.
But I think at the end of the day, I have no I
don't know that I even have a theory anymore that dominates any of the others
as to what is what is actually going on? Right, Yeah, I
have no idea. And you had Linda Zimmerman on which I have a lot
of respect for a really nice lady, and I think she said something along
the lines of this flying saucer was in fashion at that time, and it's
kind of it's kind of funny because you know, I mean, people are
seeing different things than you know, what I saw would be described as a
flying saucer in two thousand and six that but you know, there's a cigar
uf shaped UFOs and some people say, well, those are just the saucer
shaped you know, at a side view, but a lot of people are
describing actually seeing you know, cigar shaped UFOs. And you know, the
funny thing about those. The more people I've talked to that talk about those
have all said almost all said that they've seen like portholes, like yeah,
little round windows on them, which is really bizarre. Yeah, and that's
a that's a that's another correlation to those airship reports from the from the early
nineteen hundred. Yeah. Yeah, so let's let's talk a little bit about
those because people, I mean, if you go back, you can see
the old newspaper clippings of some of these what they called airships and you know,
they weren't origible, so they didn't uh, some of these actually were
you know, these reports were prior to when those were flying the round.
Yeah, that's what's just been at the height of a major airship wave that
was sort of going all around the West coast. In this in this series,
we we get into the ones more on the East Coast, especially like
the Hudson Valley flap that was happening in the in the early nineteen hundreds.
But there was that very late eighteen hundreds flap of sightings that started in like
San Francisco. If you do any sort of archival newspaper archival research into airships,
you'll find no shortage of very detailed reports that we're being run in newspapers
at the time of encounters with these flying craft that we're seeing over like San
Francisco, San Jose, I mean San Diego, They're all over that California
area, and then they start going moving out into the Midwest. What's really
interesting is you can track them, you know, like you'll there's there's actually
points in time where you'll see you're you're able to track their movement by the
reports popping up in the newspapers around the country. So they start in one
area and then they move out across you know, the country. And obviously,
if you're a skeptic, your response to that is going to be,
well, that's just other newspapers picking that same story up and they start running
their own, you know, falsified version of it. And that is like
anytime you do archival research, that's a danger you'll run into. Is newspapers
in the eighteen hundreds and nineteen hundreds, some would argue, up till today
love making up stories to sell papers, and yeah, yeah, and and
so you do run into that. But a lot of these stories have a
lot of details that are that are able to be corroborated. So you've got
names of witnesses and things like that that in a story that's falsified in a
newspaper, they typically wouldn't add those details. So as long as you can
at least corroborate some of these people existed, that that in itself is a
major indication that some of these things actually happen. Seeah, those those airship
waves are super interesting to me. And when you get into the nineteen hundreds
waves that hit like the East Coast and especially that Hudson Valley area, those
those get really interesting as well because of the fact that there are actual encounters
with in some incident instances, there's actual encounters with the occupants a the people
that are said to be piloting the vehicles, and they get off the ship
and they'll talk to someone and they'll claim to be from like you know,
New York City or Europe or something. But there's that didn't happen. This
was all happening well before dirigibles were really taking to the skies. So you
know, I've heard people sort of conspiracy theorist passet that maybe this was like
the government testing some sort of aircraft or something like that. But you know,
when you get into those eighteen hundreds reports, that starts to make you
scratch your head. Well, especially because I think it was in Britain.
But back in I think it was prior to eighteen ninety there was a report
and a lot of people saw this hairship they called I may have called it
something else, ghost ship or something like that, but a bright light shot
down to the ground and everybody reported that. And you know, they didn't
have the technology at that time to do something like that. Which is that's
that's interesting something that's something that Linda talks about. Actually in the Hudson Valley
flap, was that And this is like nineteen thirteen, I I don't remember
the exact date Linda gifts, but they were these they were shining these bright
lights while they're flying across the sky. And Linda relates that farmers and people
living in the area would look out their window in the middle of the night
and there would be these ships moving above their fields with these lights like combing,
combing the ground. And this is you know, the very early nineteen
this is the earliest days of the twentieth century. So it seems to to
sort of point to something a little more unusual than an experimental craft, right,
And I think as she also talks about, maybe it's not her,
but someone does about beings on top of a craft standing cop and waiting.
Am I think, yeah, I've heard that story, but I don't think
that was one that she told. What's interesting too about those airship waves is
that there's some some similarities to the Black Triangles or even just even just like
the Phoenix Lights where they you know, they're obviously some of this is going
to be because these are airships and they were moving slower, but there's there's
similarities between the airships and the Black Triangles, and that they start in one
area and they just sort of like move over a location as if they want
to be seen, you know that that's that was always what was so unusual
about the Phoenix lights to me is that if I think doctor Keti said that,
it looked like a parade more than anything, like they were wanting to
be noticed. And some people would argue that that's the way that the airships
were. You know, it wasn't like they were trying to stay It wasn't
like the airships were trying to stay hidden. They were you know, they
were very bold about the fact that they're flying around out there and people can
interact with them and see them at night. And I would say, I
would argue that in a lot of cases, it seems like the Black Triangles,
especially in the Hudson Valley area. Again, the Hudson Valley comes up
a lot, mostly because I'm fascinated by those cases, but also because it's
I feel like the Hudson Valley. UFOs stuff is overlooked a lot these days,
and I think it was really important to ufology. I don't know if
you would agree with that or not. Well, I think there were tens
of thousands of people that saw something. It wasn't just like a few.
Yeah, there's a lot, a lot of witnesses. Yeah, But that
was something I conclusion I came to while I was editing the series. Actually,
it was just the strange similarities between the airship waves and the Black Triangle
waves, and how the behavior of the craft actually seems very similar, really
similar in some situations, right right, Yeah, I don't know. I
just love the early cases. And you know, I have Dave Marler's going
to be on next week. We're not going to be talking about Black Triangles,
but we may touch on a little bit, but you know, he's
the go to for that, and I have his book. Oh you do,
Yeah, I do believe the first sighting of a of a triangle was
in the late nineteenth century. I do believe. I think we might have
referenced it. I can't remember. It's been a while else since I edited
episode two. We might have referenced that sighting because Alejandra actually talked about Marler
and the work he had done during his interview, So I'm not sure if
a few referenced that are not. But yeah, that that to me is
really intriguing as well, just the idea that black triangles might have been around
long before, you know, like most people credit them as showing up in
the in the eighties and nineties. It would be really fascinating if you could
track down sightings from from that far back. Yeah, yeah, I saw
that Alejandro was in there and out there. That keep asking me how he
is. I've talked a little bit about him last week, and he's just
taking a little break from the UFO scene for the most part. But he'll
probably will be back. But he's just he's concentrating on doing something different and
you know, hopefully we'll have him back. He says he is paying attention
to the UFO headline so so, but he's doing really well for all those
out there that wonder how he's doing. And I did see him, you
know, I see how he's edited in into most of the episodes, isn't
he. Yeah, he's in. I think I think the really like mouthpieces
for the series end up being David Weatherly Alejanigo Man. Those two were in
almost every episode. Linda is in I think five or six of the eight,
so it's it really is pretty pretty heavy. They're they're featured, you
know, And I know going into it who I think is going to end
up being that sort of figure. So I knew because of how knowledgeable he
is about the history of the whole thing, kind of knew going into it
that he would be featured pretty heavily. So when he we interviewed him for
like two and a half three hours, which for us is a is a
very long period of time. Our interviews don't usually last long. But I
made sure to hit pretty much everything. I mean, he talked about contacts,
he talked about you know, the Black Triangles airships, he talked about
pretty much everything. Yeah. Yeah, No, he's great. He's really
got a lot of knowledge there. And you said there was did you say
there were thirty people interviewed totally, and I think that I think the total
number that we interviewed is like twenty nine. But you know, there's a
couple of people that were in there that there was actually an interview that was
shot with a guy named Mark Munsey who's an author in Florida, and his
interview got scrapped because the audio got destroyed while we were in the Chestnut Ridge
in Pennsylvania. Well, that's terrible when something like that happened. It's too
bad, it is. It's frustrating. Yeah, oh absolutely, yeah,
We've had our We've had our audio problems on this show too. It just
does happen. And when you're alive, it's a you know, we have
that one shot. What would you say, is to your the favorite case
of yours that you looked into for this for this series? Yeah, yeah,
I mean I think it does come back to like Dan Weist, but
we already talked about that one. So it's probably going to be the Gary
Treibert from from the Hudson Valley. And what's really frustrating again about the fact
that there's only eight episodes in the series that Gary could have had a whole
episode, like just for himself to talk about all the things that have that
have happened to him, because he alludes to it in the in the abduction
episode that that what he talks about in that episode is just one small facet
of what's gone on in his life he had. I don't know if that's
here or on your end, but they're probably grant that they're coming to get
me now, Gary, Gary, when he was a kid, was was
seeing craft on above this hill outside of his parents house in upstate New York,
UH specifically the Hudson Valley area, and there was a gravel quarry and
there were multiple instances where he saw this craft sort of hovering above above the
forest up on the quarry, and one time him and his dad walked up
to see because they saw his craft, and they walked up together to get
a closer look, and I guess about halfway up his dad turned him home
and said you go back home, and Gary went home and his dad was
gone for hours, and that that part of the story is really unusual,
But it's what happens next is so much more unusual. And this did not
make it into that episode because it's so bizarre. I could not find a
way to put this in there and have it make sense for the audience.
And I'm probably going to do a terrible job of recalling this, But basically,
Gary, after that instance where he saw the UFO above the gravel Corey
as a kid, he went into the woods one day and encountered a man
who was wearing coveralls and was about four feet tall, and the man had
a cartoon face. This is how Gary recalls it. The guy. The
guy had a like a cartoon face or something like that. But Gary seems
to believe that that instance incident was sort of either a you know, like
maybe a memory that was planted in his head or something, and he believes
that that was potentially the first time he was abducted. And years later Gary
would and this is actually in episode seven. Gary does believe he had an
instance of abduction or missing time in which he was he was driving to the
to the grocery store or something to get beer in the middle of the night,
and halfway there he started noticing his car was being followed by a light
in the sky and he comes he's coming on his back road. He comes
around a bend in the road and all of a sudden, the craft is
down in the middle of the road, and like two three hours later,
he wakes up or comes to or whatever you want to call it, not
knowing what happened to the hours prior. He didn't even realize how much time
had passed until he drives into town and goes to the grocery store and walks
in and realizes as they're closing he had left home at like he had left
home at like eight o'clock and it was now almost midnight something like that,
and realizes all this time's past, goes home, and then later he would
have some Some things happened physically he was waking. He woke up with scoop
marks on the back of his neck, which he was he actually showed to
us he had one day he was out fixing his car and he started feeling
dampness on his leg. He looked down and there was blood seeping through his
pants. Not there wasn't a rip, It was like blood was was coming
out of his pants. He goes inside, he drops his pants and he's
got a massive scoop mark in his leg that almost looks cauterized, where blood
is now pulling inside of and then he started getting and then he started waking
up with nosebleeds, with with dried blood all around his face. And and
I guess one of these times he woke up with with the nosebleed, he
went into his children's room the next morning. He had three twins, and
then his wife also had a son. And when they went into the bedroom,
all four of these kids had blood coming out of their nose. So
the triplets and the little boy had had blood coming out of their nose.
What was really strange about that to me? And this is one this probably
points to a larger, a larger, you know, statement about experiencers and
how they all react differently to what happens to them. But Shannon was really
curious if Gary, how Gary felt about that, you know, because now
your homes being invaded, your children are being brought into this, how do
you feel about it? And he was very I don't know how to put
it. I don't know how to put it right. He wasn't If this
was me, I'd be angry, you know, I'd be very very angry.
I'd want to know what's happening. I'd want to protect my children,
was his reaction. It wasn't anger. It was it was more of a
sort of like acceptance of what's happening. And I thought that was really an
interesting dichotomy with how you would expect him to react to something like that.
But what I just said is honestly barely, barely scraping the surface of all
the things that he told us about while we were in there. His interview
went for about forty five minutes, and it was really him just sort of
recalling all these things that happened. He recalled his mom having sightings outside of
their house as a child of lights and the sky he recalled, he recalled
it his his I believe it was his mom came into his room when he
was a kid, and and oh maybe it was him. Maybe maybe he
recalled going into his children's room and seeing something in the room in the middle
of the night. So whatever, whatever the case may be, it was
it was pretty obvious that whatever had happened to him had never stopped and seemed
to be generational. Wow, Wow, that's really interesting. Well I have
to tell you up Well, first of all, I'm going to tell something
a little personal about myself that I'd never really talk about. And but it's
nice and that is up. Well, it all started. I went into
Staples, Local Staples up to do some work on an appraisal that I'm doing
basically for the antiques world, and the the girl at the counter said,
oh, I like your lighthouse that you have for your logo. What made
you choose a lighthouse? And I said, well, I said, it's
an interesting story. My father was a lighthouse keeper in the Coast Guard and
he was lonely at a place called a whaleback Light in kit Remaine. He
was very lone. He was from Georgia, and so he's out there all
alone for like a long stretch at a time. So he would call the
operator just for someone to talk to. And he met the operator and fell
in love with her, and that was my mother. So it's quite a
story. So I told her that story and she said, oh, that's
great. She goes, hey, have you gone to the local lighthouse out
here? And I said, yeah, I've been there. It's quite nice.
And she said, did you know it's haunted? And I said,
it's Alice's Head Lighthouse. I guess it has a story of being haunted.
So I said no, I didn't know that, and anyway, so she
goes, well, I said, out, you know, guess what,
I do a show on UFOs. And so she started to tell me the
story, and it was very interesting. I love hearing UFO stories from people
that don't really pay attention to the UFO topic, and they had an experience
and they are probably telling the experience for maybe a couple of times in their
life or whatever, or anyway, it's always interesting. And she said something
along the lines of basically describing what she saw, which was some type of
craft and lights, and then her parents seeing it. But then her parents
the next day had no idea, and she said it was almost like they
didn't know the time had gone by. And it's again, it's like the
missing time. You mentioned that. That's kind of whatever. A lot of
people talk about this missing time thing, which I think is fascinating. It's
not unusually you can go it. Yeah, his story. Gary's story really
reminded me of very who we interviewed for our Invasion on Chestnut Ridge movie back
in twenty seventeen. He Barry had very similar occurrences to Gary, almost eerily
so, in that he was driving somewhere one night, sees a light and
the sky, wakes up hours later, doesn't know what happened, and then
starts suffering from physical effects after the fact. You know. And Barry Clark
was a major UFO case investigator in the nineteen seventies with Stan Gordon. He
was one of Stan Gordon's like right hand guys. And Barry was so studious
and in documenting things that happened to him. He had file cabinets full of
cases he had looked into and when all of this started happening, it drove
him out of the field, to the point where he burned all of his
files. The stuff, the stuff that happened to him was so traumatic,
and I mean, this was the only time we've ever had this happen.
He actually shut yet, he had to shut off the cameras and he told
us like all these things that had happened. He didn't want to document it,
and I'm not permitted obviously to tell what happened to him. But it
was one of the more disturbing interviews I've ever been a part of, because
you could immediately see how much it affected him emotionally and mentally even to that
day. Wow, well, it's amazing. In the scoop marks you talked
about. That's something you do here quite a bit about it's not unusual.
We're actually going into a real break this time. So when we come back
about a half hour into the next segment, we're going to be taking phone
calls. So that number, if you want to write it down is let's
see, it's eight five five four seven two five four eight three and again
we'll be doing that about a half hour in. And my guest tonight is
Seth Breedlove and we'll be right back right after these messages. All right,
everyone, welcome back to the show. My guest tonight is Seth Reedlove and
we were talking about his series called On the Trail of UFOs and so what
other on the Trail series do you have on the Trail of big Foot?
I can see that one. Yeah, it's it's funny because the idea behind
the entire on the Trail of concept is kind of changed. Originally On the
Trail of each season was going to focus on a different subject. So the
first season was all about the lake Monster champ that said to the reside in
Lake Champlain, and then from there we did on the Trail of Bigfoot.
But it's going to morph now because On the Trail of big Foot, it's
about the pick up a season two and that's going to be happening at the
same time that On the Trail of the Lake Michigan Mothman, which is a
special event that's probably going to be around ninety minutes, will come out.
So it's basically morphing into its own sort of sub subsect of small town monsters.
It's it's basically our way to do episodic storytelling. We'd really like to
do a second season on the Trail of UFOs. So what we're looking to
do eventually is get to the point where we would have like On the Trail
of Bigfoot running on the Trail of UFOs running, and then another on the
Trail of sort of series each year. And that's addition to the films we
put out. So there's a lot, a lot in her future. But
yeah, On the Trail of Bigfoot was sort of the one that that propelled
the entire idea forward, and that came out last year and it's at like
four million people have watched On the Trail of Bigfoot, so that's that's what
really helped set that path for us. I know this isn't about UFOs,
but I'm still a little bit fascinated about the Lake Champlain. Did you find
anything interesting, anything interesting come out of that? Well, I that's actually
the only STM project I didn't direct. I produced that. But what Alexander
Pettikov, who directed it, put in the series that I thought was most
compelling was the where the petrogs that they found in the river, one of
the rivers that feeds into Lake Champlain. They actually found these petroglyphs that were
would have been done centuries ago by local native tribes. They clearly depict some
sort of pleasias or looking creature, and I thought that alone was a pretty
strong piece of evidence for the existence of something at some point in history having
been in that area. Am I hearing music? Do I hear music?
That is that clock? That is all the clock? Yes? You mentioned
our lovely town Square clock. Okay, yeah, you can't do much about
that. I was actually stranded on Lake Champlain. I had an antique boat
that had an engine trouble, so I was staying at a hotel on the
lake, and it was four o'clock in the morning by the time I got
back, and I was lost I got totally lost in the middle of the
night out there, and I started some classiest I started thinking about that Lake
Lonster. Yeah, but are there acts, people that have taken pictures or
I don't recall of anything. I mean, I think I think it's like
Bigfoot or anything. You know, there are a number of purported photographs of
what people claim is champ none of them entirely convincing. You know, it's
like anything that The best evidence it's like UFOs or Bigfoot. The best evidence
comes down to the fact that you've got these very believable, perfectly reasonable,
rational people who will tell you they saw something. And I've weirdly enough.
I mean, we made a movie near Lake Champlain back in twenty sixteen,
actually filmed in twenty fifteen, called The Beast of Whitehall, and Whitehall is
this tiny town that's actually the birthplace of the US Navy. It sits right
on the banks of Lake Champlain and the Champlain Canal runs right through the middle
of the town. But we made a movie about a big foot siding there
that happened in the seventies. While we were making this Bigfoot movie, we
up to having people come up and tell us about their Champ, their Champ
encounters, and that was sort of actually the first time I thought we need
to do a movie about Champ. But yeah, there's there's a lot of
witnesses, a lot of people still claiming to see something in there, you
know today, but nothing super believable in the way of photographic evidence, right
right. You know, I got to ask you this when you have done
all these different series and looked into all these different things, where their crossovers
where you know, the same place that you just mentioned, kind of a
crossover there with the Champ, you know, people seeing him, but were
there are other crossovers between big Foot in UFOs you kind of hear that.
Sometimes I think the biggest is is actually the Chestnut Ridge where Stan Gordon is,
because you've you've got so much strange activity taking place up there and we
we I don't know if it's just that the Chestnut Ridge is relatively close to
where I live, but we can't seem to escape it. We made this
movie in twenty seventeen called Invasion on Chestnut Ridge, which was actually a massive
flop. But for some reason, it's like it's like the movie that everyone
I talked to really Loves and for some reason, I feel like it's it's
one of our best It's there's there's people in Hollywood I've spoken to who found
us because of that movie. So it's it's a weird thing. But we
made that movie in twenty seventeen, and then we went back in twenty eighteen
and shot episodes of On the Trail of Bigfoot, and then this year we
shot more for for on the Trail of UFOs. And it's a place where
you've got a confluence of very strange paranormal slash uphological slash cryptozoological activity all taking
place in one location. But that Whitehall Bannington Triangle upstate New York, you
know the Adirondacks stretching up into like a Vermont and Connecticut. There's a lot
of really weird activity that happens up there too, where you get you know,
UFOs Bigfoot scene together. The strangest thing about Whitehall is you have it's
everything. While we were there, we spoke to Bigfoot witnesses. The Whitehall
case is one of the more famous Bigfoot cases. But you've also got Champ
right down the road. And then while we were there, we had these
police officers tell us about seeing a what they claim is a terrodactyl sit in
a tree right down the road from a bear road, which is sort of
the location of this really famous Bigfoot you know siting. But that's that's those
two places are the ones that seem to have the most of that sort of
activity that we've been to or we've made films on. And the Chestnut Ridge.
There's so much to explore with the Chestnut Ridge that I've kicked around the
idea of doing an entire episodic series just hanging out with Stan Gordon as he
takes us through all the crazy stuff he's investigated. We met up a year
like a year ago at a con somewhere, and the first thing he says
when he sits down is he sits down and goes, well, now now
I'm getting reports from a local police officer of this creature with no head,
it's got eyes in the middle of his chest and no warms, And I'm
just like, yeah, I mean, why wouldn't he Sure Like every time
it's Akistan, he's got something, you know, something insane he's he's looking
into on the ridge. It's and it's never surprising. Yeah, all stands
great, He's been on the show a number of times, and he does
he actually does a great job, and he's he's he's not a BS guy.
I mean, you just know he doesn't try to stare anyone in a
certain way. We had I love his work on Kesburg, which is still
a mystery. Some people say it was you know, uh, I forget
exactly what I had someone on that. There was a little bit of a
debate on what the object actually was. But yeah, he's always great and
he's got the stories about everything that are happening here. I can understand why
I want to do that. Yeah. Yeah, so one of some of
the other places you ended up up traveling to and and talking you know,
some other cases. Yeah, for this for this series, we started in
so the first trip actually took us to Nevada and Arizona, and we started
in Phoenix. We interviewed doctor Ketai about the Phoenix Lights, and then we
interviewed another I don't know if you can quantify as what he experienced as an
abduction, but Donovan, we interviewed in Phoenix as well. On Donovan had
this really unusual incident that happened to him when he was a kid. He
woke up in the middle of the night. He went to get out of
bed to go to the bathroom and this strange like green mists appeared under his
bed and he felt like it was trying to grab him keep him in the
place. He jumped back into bed, and then next day he was told
by a friend of school they had seen a UFO hovering over his house roughly
around the same time, that this would have happened to him, and that
that story is relayed much better by him in episode seven of all the trailer
of UFOs. But that was sort of the first stop of that trip was
Phoenix, where we interviewed those two people and Alejandro. Actually we did Alejandro's
interview in Phoenix as well, and then we did Sedona. We traveled to
Sedona. While we were in Sedona and we interviewed Ron, Ron Riggiar and
Malava. Malava is actually a tribal elder. We are not allowed to state
who his tribe is, but it's pretty obvious. I mean, if you
watch the episode, it's pretty obvious who he's talking about, and their stories
were both. Ron is one of my favorite people as far as like the
way the way he's so old school about everything and just just sort of his
recollections of working on the radars when when like the Phoenix lights happened, the
satellite array that he was he was actually tasked with operating at that time,
he was aware of what was happening in Phoenix when it was happening. He
was actually tracking the Phoenix lights from this geosynchronous satellite that he was actually that
was his job at the time, was to monitor this satellite and they were
actually able to track the Phoenix lights. He also was involved in tracking the
Tehran Iran UFO that that occurred as well. I wasn't. Yeah, so
so both of those should we really should just back up just a little bit
for the new listener. Yeah, I think it was something like March thirteenth
or something like that in nineteen ninety seven, the Phoenix, the Phoenix lights
and ongoing. You know, a lot of people have reported as seeing something
similar, but some people have including Peter Davenport, has gotten calls at night
and people were were estimating something that could have been miles wide, that the
object was so big and going over but that was in more than one state.
You said, so, yeah, it seems like it's and that's that's
where RON came in. Is is where they first tracked. Where they first
saw the Phoenix lights appear on their geosynchronous satellite was coming out over area fifty
one, so they see it near area fifty one for the first time.
Is where they first catch a blip of this thing, and then they track
it all the way to Phoenix and along the way it supposedly went over Las
Vegas and what the for For anyone who doesn't know what the Phoenix Lights are,
it seems to descriptions vary in terms of the number of lights, but
the most common description that is that it was basically seven lights in a v
formation that traveled across Arizona and Nevada, apparently according to RON, a year
beginning near area fifty one, and it travels down over the area and it
is witnessed by thousands of people all across the area that I was actually asked
recently why it's a historically significant case, and I said, the reason it's
historically significant is that we can still talk to This isn't like Roswell where we've
lost all the pertinent witnesses. This is we're still able to go talk to
these people and learn from them if people actually do that, and that that
every year, more and more witnesses are coming forward that claimed they saw,
you know, the Phoenix lights. So I think it's important just just for
that reason. But yeah, the lights were seeing all across the area.
They go over the the city of Phoenix, they actually hover over the Sky
Harbor International Airport. They're they're seen on their radar by air traffic controllers who
claimed that the craft This was stated by air traffic controllers that the craft that
was seen on radar was over a mile wide. So whatever this thing was,
it was it was huge, it was silent, and it seemed to
want to be seen. And the event was sort of laughed off by Governor
Fife Symington, who later came out as being a witness of the of the
Phoenix lights. And it's gone down in history is one of the most important
mass sightings in US history. Yeah, it was just h I forget the
was a hailbop. I can't remember the comment. Yeah it was a hailbop.
Yeah, people are outside just to watch that, and that's why,
you know, it was a clear nights. So many sis and you know,
some people claimed that it blacked out the stars up above, and and
another person said it looked like a wave, a heat wave, like you
could see rippling, you know, through it. But still you know the
fact that it was silent. It was huge. If that technology, if
that was military technology in nineteen ninety seven, it would be you know,
amazing that it wouldn't be used, you know, somewhere somehow, or we
wouldn't know something about it by this time. I would think, so,
yeah, I agreed, Yeah, And it's it's cool to me too,
just just from like, you know, like what interests me about all this
a lot of times is how culturally it impacts the area where where the events
take place. And to see Phoenix, that that event has been embraced in
a way by by the city of Phoenix now to the point where the Historical
Society has an entire exhibit sort of dedicated to the Phoenix Lights that you can
walk through. So there's there's little things like that that are I think important
just from a euthological sort of incident standpoint. Right, I didn't even know
about that until I watched her film. I didn't know they had a a
little museum set up. I didn't realize either Yeah, and that's in that
is in the historical society. That is that is as that is as legitimate
as you can get. Yeah. Yeah, there's illustrations. There's like there's
a hanging craft, you know, showing you know, what most people saw
thought they saw. And yeah, and you know it is interesting that Fife
Symington, as you mentioned, you know, first of all, kind of
ridiculed the situation his claim with that alien you know that came in and uh,
you know, his his uh a friend or whatever came in and an
alien costume him and said here's the culprit and all that. But you know,
according to him, he was trying to release the tension because the phone
was ringing off the hook and you know, he had a lot of a
lot of people to answer to. You wanted to give a shout out to
someone that's in the chat room, right, Gary Treiber, who I talked
about earlier, was actually in there. So I'm not sure he's if he's
still in there, but yeah, if Gary, if Gary's in there,
shout out to Gary. And it was funny when I met Gary. We
actually interviewed Gary for on the trail of UFLOS, but I had met him
weeks prior at the Mothman Festival in West Virginia, which was kind of a
strange coincidence because I had I had no idea who he was at the time,
and then I wound up interviewing him for something completely unrelated in a state,
you know, three states away a few weeks later. So that was
that was one of those weird synchronicityes, right right. The Mothman is another
thing that is bizarre. I know this is a show about UFOs, but
occasionally we'll talk about other topics and I don't mind talking about that. But
before I asked you about that, what is this Bell Witch? I don't
know exactly what. You call it? The Mark of the Bell? Yeah,
what is that exactly? Uh, there's there was a case from the
eighteen hundreds where off the Bell family and Adams, Tennessee, we're haunted by
a disembodied sort of voice and experienced a number of strange sort of poulter Geist
activity around their home. We're going to make a movie that examines what that
story entailed, because it's never actually just been straight retold by anyone. You
have a lot of the typical like ghost hunting shows with people running through houses
with night vision on. But no one's ever done a historical documentary about that
case. So we're going to do that, and then we're also going to
we've thankfully made some really good contacts locally in Adams and we have some leads
on some present day activity that we're really excited to get into as well.
Wow, so there's a lot. There's a lot to that story that we're
we're going to unpack, I think when we get into that and the Mothman
up. So what did you you mentioned earlier? I believe you said something
like there was actually you fo sightings. I didn't. I didn't. Well,
oh yeah, yeah, the Mothman, the sixties flap that took place
in that Everyone sort of knows the Mothman because of the nineteen sixty six and
sixty seventh flap. That whole thing was kicked off by the injured cold Woody
Darrenburger encounter. I'm assuming you've heard of that. I have not. Okay,
may by something else, but I don't know of that. No.
Yeah. The Grinning Man, as he was called Woodrow Darrenburger was a salesman
that lived in in a town called Mineral Wells, West Virginia, and he
was on his way home one night from Parkersburg, West Virginia. He's driving
down seventy seventh South, which would have been a two lane highway at the
time. Today it's a big highway, but at the time it's just two
lane highways. Driving home, he sees a craft in the sky. Craft
drives over the highway lands next to the highway. He pulls to the side
of the road and a hatch on this craft, which he described it as
looking like an upturned or a kerosene lantern, like turned on its side essentially,
or a chimney from the kerosene lantern, I think is how we put
it. The hatch on the door opens and outsteps this man that has a
very eerie grin who walks toward the car and telepathically communicates with Woodrow Darrenburger that
he is a man named injuried Cold from the planet Lannulus. Okay, so
that kicks off that kicks off that event is actually what kicks off the moth
Man event. And very often those two things are tied together. They're not
like, they don't seem to have anything in common other than the fact that
mineral Wells is about an hour from point Pleasant. So two weird things happening
in the span of like two nights. Apparently that's enough to connect them.
But with that UFO sighting the inciting to kick off. Obviously, the Mothman
was a six foot tall creature with a ten foot wingspan of red eyes that
was seen all around the Ohio Valley during that time period and really all of
Appalachia. But what most people seem to leave out of this for some unknown
reason, is that during the starting in like nineteen sixty four and continuing well
into the nineteen seventies, there was a pretty much endless wave of UFO activity
around West Virginia and to the point where we were making when we were making
our Flatwoods Monster movie, we were in the town of Flatwoods, and Flatwoods
is central West Virginia. It is smack dab in the middle of West Virginia.
It is as West Virginia. When you think West Virginia, this is
what you're probably calling to your mind. It's like back roads, would you
know, like gravel roads. It's hills and hollers, it's people living up
in the middle of nowhere. You know that don't wear shoes and drink a
lot of moonshine and that kind of thing. And when you we were making
that movie, we came to interview a witness who told us about her parents
seeing or her grandparents, actually her mama and papa seeing UFOs almost on a
nightly basis between like nineteen sixty five and nineteen seventy seven, to the point
where they saw UFOs landing behind their barn. And I asked her, I
said, that would have been at the height of sort of the Mothman stuff
too, right sixty six and sixty seven. She said, yes, that
was right in right in that time period. And she said that it wasn't
just them, it was people all around the states. So a lot of
people think during sixty six and sixty seven when the Mothman sidings were going on,
and a lot of this is because of John Keel, And in fact,
like I'm sorry, I'm not trying to get off track, artist like
Keel. Keel came two point pleasant to do a story on UFOs being seen
around West Virginia for Playboy, so he was in. John Kiel came to
point, wasn't for that reason, not really to cover the Mothman. It
was because of the UFO wave. So he's there covering the UFO wave and
then the Mothman stuff starts happening. And what's really interesting is people always try
to tie the Mothman to like the Silver Bridge collapse, right, because the
Silver Bridge collapsed forty seven lives were lost. You can't really do it.
There weren't sightings of the Mothman over the bridge, but there were sightings of
UFOs all up and down the Ohio River in the days ahead of the collapse
and in the days afterward. And I'm not blaming I'm not blaming the UFOs
for collapsing the bridge. I'm just saying people like to draw that line,
but they completely leave out the UFO aspect of that story. So there's there
were There were major waves that were taking place all over the region at that
time, to the point where the Charleston I want to say it's the Herald
Standard, I think is the name of the local paper there. They had
a beat reporter who we interviewed for The moth Made a point pleasant movie,
who told us that they had a UFO desk. It was there were so
many reports coming in. They had a UFO desk with a guy stationed on
the phone to take UFO reports throughout the day. Mary Hire, who wrote
Who took a lot of the initial Mothman reports and lived in Point Pleasant despite
working for the Athens, Ohio newspaper. She did a newspaper column called Where
the Waters Mingle, And it started out as like her little slice of life
column, and then over time morphed into her just like telling people's weird encounter
stories from around the area, and the bulk of that column became her relating
ufocases. People people around the town of Point Pleasant and around Gallop Police,
Ohio, and all around that Ohio River Valley area seeing UFOs during that sixty
six sixty seven and into the early seventies. What were they describing the UFOs?
Like every everything under the sun? Really you had you had the most
traditional thing that we've found is the description that we found a sort of just
lights in the sky. But uh, you know, like you had your
classic flying saucers. You had a cigar shaped object that hovered was seen hovering
over a school end Point Pleasant. You had a case from uh nineteen sixty
seven where a teacher from Point Pleasant was driving down the road that connects UH
Point Pleasant to the T and D factory area, which is where sort of
the first sightings of the Mothman took place at the T ANDT Factory area.
She was driving down that road and claimed that she saw a UFO flying in
the sky. She saw the Mothman streak across the sky and seemingly go into
a door on the on the UFO. So so during during that him period
of One of my favorite stories that gets left out of all of this a
lot is a sighting that was actually related by I can't remember if this is
two women or two men that were driving down seventy seven North the same night
as Woodrow Darrenburger's encounter, who claimed that they saw a similarly shaped craft land
on the side of the road and two men in coveralls get out of it,
and that that sighting would almost corroborate to some extent Woodrow Darrenburger. But
that story, for some reason, it never really gets talked about. But
they're, you know, like part of the part of the problem is that
Kiel's book is so disjointed. And I love Kiel and I love his research,
but that book is so disjointed and it becomes more about him than it
does the case, and a lot of the details of those sixties UFO aspects
of the story get sort of glossed over in favor of like the men in
black and the prophecies that he was receiving. Wow, very interesting. We
are now taking calls. I actually see the phone ringing. We have a
screener over there. Race, I'll talk to you. And that phone number
is eight five five four seven two five four eight three, And I see
the phone ring and I don't see it being picked up, So keep calling
now there it goes. Okay, so we'll have a call here in just
a moment that you know. That whole thing is fascinating. I never ever
heard the the UFO aspect of this. I've heard a lot about the Mothman.
Now, was, as far as you know, was the Mothman as
popular before that blockbuster movie? I mean, we're not really okay, Yeah,
but I don't know why, because the movie was popular, but it
isn't popular enough where you would see it rocket to the sort of like top
cultural mainstay that it's become today. So I don't know. There is something
about the Mothman's story and the Mothman as a character quote unquote character that has
appeal in ways that something like Bigfoot doesn't even have anymore. It seems to
draw the attention of a younger audience, especially much more than than some of
the other paranormal subjects that we've looked into. But I also think there's way
more sightings than than we realize. I'm making. I'm making a follow up
to The mothmana point pleasant called the Mothman Legacy that tracks sightings from nineteen sixty
seven up till present day. So the first movie was about sixty six and
sixty seven sort of ended with the collapse of the Silver Bridge, but that
bridge collapse didn't didn't sort of signal an end to the sightings. There were
sightings along and after that in their sightings today, but we had no We've
had no problem. I'm finding witnesses, which is one of the first times
I've run into that where you can basically throw a stone and you'll hit someone
who wants to tell you their moth Man's sighting story. Wow, that's great.
We have Andy whoops. Yeah, I think I'm going on the air.
Yeah, Andy on the air from Connecticut. How are you doing Andy,
How you doing, guys, I'm doing it well. How you have
a question for our guest tonight, Yes, sir, My question for Seth
is kind of a two part is is he aware of what is his opinion
on the cluster of sightings in the Chicago area of winged humanoids, some of
which are very similar to moth Man? And then part two, i'll take
your answer off the air, would be does Seth have a theory on everything
somewhat into maybe Paul or ben Eno? Is there a connection between all paranormal
activity? And I'll take your answer up there. Thank you, guys,
good job, Yeah, thank you And all right. Yeah, the we're
actually going to make an on the trail of the Lake Michigan moth Man,
so that'll track those Chicago sightings. And we've actually covered that topic already in
our movie that came out last year called Terror in the Skies, where we
tracked winged creature sightings all around the state of Illinois going back centuries. But
yeah, my knowledge of that case comes from the minimal amount of time I
spent on the case when we were making Terror in the Skies. That story
only makes up about eleven minutes of that movie, but we're going to do
a full ninety minute look at the case. All I can tell you is
that there's a lot more to it than you would think just by looking into
it. My initial outlook on the Chicago Mothman stuff was that it was more
than likely made up of misidentifications and hoaxes. But in listening to what Tobias
Wayland is sort of uncovered in his research into that case, it seems like
there's a lot of sightings that are going on that are much more believable and
verifiable than what was initially reported. And we're now talking hundred, not hundreds,
but well over one hundred sightings that stretch back to twenty seventeen, and
they're not just relegated to Chicagos. It's probably worth mentioning as well. They
were going to call the movie the Lake Michigan on the Trail of the Lake
Michigan Mothman, because they stretch that whole Lake Erie or Lake Michigan shoreline and
towns. You know in Indiana, Illinois, Michigan. There's there's people that
are seeing things all over that area. So I'm very familiar with it.
I'm not as well versed in it as I will be in about a month
when we when we shoot that that series. And as far as like having
a theory of everything, I do not have a theory of everything, and
I don't ever subscribe to theories of everything. I think it's trying to try
to neatly tie everything together with a bow. Won't happen. Albert, there's
Albert Einstein couldn't do it. Yeah, I just don't. I just don't.
I just don't think it's I just don't think it's doable. And I
know, I know, you know, John Kiel talked about the ultra terrestrials
and all that kind of stuff, and that was all sort of aimed at
uniting everything, coming up with a common, unifying theory for what was the
cause of it. And I just don't think that's You're not gonna I don't
think that's what we're what we're dealing with. I think Paul, you know,
Paul and Benny, you know their their theory is more or less.
He's been on the show quite a few times, and I think it's more
a less a little long along the lines of interdimensional is how he explains that.
Now have Dirk, Dirk is calling from Pennsylvania. Welcome to the show,
Dirk R. Thanks for calling the show. I got three things on
foot. Oddly enough, have you done anything on Bill Munn's the guy who
restored the Patterson Gimwin and he's a monster makeup guy from Hollywood. He did
some excellent work. Yeah, I'm I'm very familiar with the work he's done
on the Patterson Gimwin film. I haven't connected with him yet, but I'm
actually hoping to in the next year or so. That would be great because
I think all of his information has gotten buried under a bunch of not very
good stuff. Well most of what most of what goes on, most of
what goes on with Bigfoot these days is not very good. So I just
think it's entertaining. And I have a problem with momos. He only has
three toes. There aren't any Basically, there's hardly any mammals at all with
three toes. Everything has five, including whales. If they looked at their
skelton, they have five fingers. Perfectly. Yeah, I mean, everything
just can't be Yeah. And what's weird about that is there were a rash
of sightings, or not sightings, but findings in the seventies of three toed
casts, including Stan Gordon actually found some on the Chestnut Ridge, and they
seemed to be in areas where people were seeing you know, bigfoot like creatures.
That was one of the stranger things about about the sightings of Momo was
that they were finding these three toed casts. At least one of the really
famous track ways we know was faked by this girl we actually interviewed for Momo
the Missouri Monster, and she too, she recalled actually faking the trackway when
she was a kid. But the same thing actually happened with the Boggy Creek
Monster, the Falcon Monster. They the tracks they were finding were we're three
toed or appeared to be three toed down there as well. So during the
seventies there was either like an abnormally number high number of three toed bigfoot running
around, which again like I'm like you, I don't think that that can
be, or there were a lot of hoaxes, or there was misidentification of
tracks that were you know, bear steps or something. There's something going on
there. Yeah, that actually brings me to my last point pretty well,
actually question the bray Road Beast. What that has gotten so popular now everybody
is seeing these things everywhere, and that's kind of weird to me. I
think it's kind of like those three toad things things. People get it in
their head and then they just start seeing it. Yeah. What I always
say is that people people want to be a part of the story, so
so that that is a problem you get. You get case contamination, where
people the more popular a story becomes, the less you can believe immediately every
single thing that people tell you. And obviously you always want to try to
trust the witnesses, but you you can't necessarily believe every single thing you're told.
So, yeah, that the hot cryptid right now seems to be dog
Man, and I don't know I would I mean, it would be cool
to say it was because our movie The Bray Road Beast that came out a
year and a half ago. It was a big hit, but I don't
think I could take credit for that. So I don't know if there's It
does seem like there's more and more sightings every year of what they call dog
Man, and I don't know what that is attributable too. I have no
idea, and the sightings are so strange. I do know a lot of
the quadruped reports seem to just be you know, like coy wolves or some
sort of wolf hybrid since those those reports very often do not actually entail a
like a wolf on a time legs. Very often it's just a abnormally large
wolf running on four legs. I think my favorite was the one wearing a
hat and smoking a cigarette. Yeah, yeah, I've seen that guy.
Wow. All right, A lots better about your movie space all right,
Yeah, we're going to talk about how people can watch the movies too here
before before the end of the show, definitely. So we also have Josh.
He's calling, I think from the north part of the Hudson Valley,
Albany, New York. Josh, how you doing. I'm wonderful. How
are you guys? Good? Good? You have a question for our guest
tonight. Yeah, totally. I've enjoyed your conversations very much. I called
Martin. I called when you had Gary Hesselton on, and I asked about
I spoke to him about my setting of an object with the barbershop type pole
light on it. So, but now I'm calling because Seth, I actually
found your work a while ago without knowing it was your work. The the
movie The Chestnut. Yeah that you had mentioned earlier that most people will find
you through Yeah. Yeah, that's the first time I had seen anything from
you. I did. I enjoyed it very much, and I'm super looking
forward to the new series. I myself am a writer and filmmaker. It's
part of the reason I moved to New York from Massachusetts. Cool. I'm
wondering if you have any advice on on how I can get myself out there,
if you can talk about how you yourself. I mean, yeah,
anytime anyone asks for advice, I have a couple of things to say,
and they're always abnormal from what I hear from other filmmakers. But really,
like the first bit of advice is to be too dumb to fail, because
I genuinely I believe that's where I'm at. Like I'm I wouldn't even say
we're like a raging success. I mean, you know, like we were
I make movies for a living, but you know, like we're not.
We're not Hollywood, we're not millionaires. We just get to do what we
love and I think that in itself is a success. But yeah, yeah,
but there's a certain stupidity in what I do and that what we do
has never been done before as a company. I can tell you that as
someone who who has an agent, who's talked to other people, who understands
that our business model is not a model you can follow, and and there's
no blueprint for what we do. And at times there's been there have been
times where we should have quit, where I should have realized, I'm putting
my I'm putting myself in financial distress, I'm putting my wife through financial distress.
I should probably call it a day, and I was too dumb to
do that. And so there is a certain element of putting your head down
and just bulldozing forward and being persistent in what you're doing that goes into becoming
a success. And then the other thing is just to really work, and
I mean like really really work and to you know, like if you if
you look at I'm a big basketball fan, I'm weirdly enough, I've in
the last couple of years, I've become a sports guy. I never was
growing up, but today I am for some reason. And one thing I
look at a lot is those guys they never stop working at what they do.
So basketball players they just play basketball. They're constantly shooting. They're constantly
working on their shot, free throws whatever. It's the same concept with filmmaking.
Like all my free time that it isn't spent with my wife and kid,
I am watching YouTube tutorials on how to edit better, better editing techniques.
I'm trying to teach myself different aspects of filmmaking that I don't know how
to do so I can help us save money. During the production and on
the trail of UFOs, I had to teach myself how to do effects work
because our budget ran out, Like we just didn't have money to keep hiring
freelancers to do effects work, so I had to teach myself how to do
it. So there's a there's also just a certain element of just you've got
to keep your head down and work really, really hard. Josh, thanks
for the call, Thanks for the answer. You guys to have a good
night, all right too. So the line is open, and that number
again is eight five five four seven two five four eight three. Yeah,
I agree, hard work as Uh, maybe I'm I've been a little too
dumb for this show. I just keep going when things come at me.
But but it's still interesting and still you have to have a passion for something
otherwise why bother. And you just made a really good point. If you
if you love what you have to do, then that success. And I'm
lucky for what I actually have to do for work. I really love what
I do, and so that's it's all good stuff and it must be.
I can't imagine, you know. I've been a little bit involved in a
film with a friend of mine over the years, you know, many years
ago. Actually it's so much fun. It's to me, it's not like,
not like working at all good stuff. Yeah, my wife asked me
what the most monotonous part of my my job is, and I said,
it's never the stuff you think it would It's not like the editing. Like
I love all the aspects of editing, even when I'm sitting here in my
computer keeps crashing as I'm trying to run renders and stuff, you know,
like you compared to sitting at a desk doing data. And I'll take this
any day. But you know, for me, it's never it's never the
things you think it would be. You know. I love obviously, I
love the travel and filming on location, but even teaching myself the minuscule amount
of effects work I did on the trail of UFOs I had a blast with.
So I'll go home tonight and I'll watch tutorials when I get When I
get home, that's like, that's what I do in the evening, I
watch various videos about filmmaking. Yeah, yeah, we're in a time where
you can do that. I mean, yeah, you know, twenty years
ago that would be unheard of, unfollowed. Yeah, I mean, honestly,
I wish I had said this to Josh. But like, don't don't
buy I mean maybe you already did, but don't buy into the idea that
you have to go to film school because at this point there's more you could
go on YouTube and learn more than you would going to going to film school.
I took. I took a film course on a website taught by Werner
Herzog. Like that's not something you could have done five years ago, you
know. Yeah, so pretty awesome. One thing we haven't done yet,
and that is we haven't talked about when and where. Isn't the release today
or no, the official release date is actually March twentieth, so it's still
it's still coming up. We're still we're still a little ways out, but
it's a link now an active link, or there is yeah, pre orders
for the series. There's two ways to pre order. You can pre order
through the website at small toomasters dot com or you can guarantee a copy when
you back the There's a kickstarter that we run. We run a kickstarter at
the start of every year and that's how we fund everything we do through the
year. And we launched our kickstarter two weeks ago. We're one hundred and
nineteen or one hundred and seventeen percent funded now, so we already reached our
goal. So we set a stretch goal, and once we reached the stretch
goal, we will be doing our best to get on the trail of the
Lake Michigan Mothman out this year, in addition to the other three projects we
haven't have coming out. So if people want to look up the kickstarter all
the informations on small Town Monsters dot com, well, that obviously is an
attestment to your work if you're getting funded like that, because there are many
many people that try to do those fund raisers and nothing happens. So I
think it's I think it's started working and then also the rewards are really cool,
Like we put we put a lot of effort and time and money back
into the campaign, So basically what people put into the Kickstarter they get back
in their rewards. So there's like this year we added Blu Ray copies,
so if people want to see you on the trail of UFOs and you've seen
it, so like the scenery in itself would be worth watching the series in
my opinion. I mean, obviously I'm the guy that made it, but
seeing it on Blu Ray is going to be incredible. I'm actually really excited
about that. Very I noticed that also whatever you're using for a camera is
very good, and also that you're editing. If you're doing it yourself,
it's pretty impressive. I told that to Alejandro the other day when I was
talking with them. Thank you Yeah cool. Yeah, So I really that's
one good thing about doing the show like I do, I get to see
things before everyone else. So I like that, and you know, it
makes me actually want to see some of your other work. So I'm actually
even though I do the show on UFOs, the other topics I do find
pretty interesting. So let's talk. We've got about five five or six minutes
left. Let's talk a little bit more about some of the cases that you
researched while you were doing this series. Yeah, I realized after the fact
that I cut myself off because we that first trip was only the first of
three trips. The next one took us to the East Coast. We actually
started in Florida and worked our way up to New Hampshire, with stops in
Manhattan and the Hudson Valley, North Carolina, to shoot an episode on the
Brown Mountain lights. And I mean, that's probably worth talking about real quick.
Is episode number six, which is titled I'm Gonna let It Shine or
just let it Shine, I think, which is my little nod to that
hymn that my parents used to sing when I as a kid. But it's
an episode that's entirely about mystery lights, and that's a subject that is very
often ignored or overlooked when it comes to UAPs. And you know, I
knew making the series that it would be a bit of a stretch to include
mystery lights in a series about UFOs. But thankfully, like some of our
winter our interview subjects did a great job of tying it back into uphology and
I thought overall that that that episode did a much better job of sort of
expanding on how large in scale the the UAP subject is. But we went
we actually went to Brown Mountain where the Brown Mountain Lights are seen, and
we interviewed Mika Hanks about about the Brown Mountain lights, and then we interviewed
we got to talk to two different witnesses, two people that have claimed to
seeing the Brown Mountain lights. We interviewed a guy who had a sighting of
what you would I guess described as like an orb near Asheville, New York,
while he was hiking with his friend. They were actually they were hiking
near Asheville late at night. They did night hiking. They were trying to
find a camping spot, and they were in the middle of nowhere up in
these woods, and they came into a pine forest and they encountered this glowing,
massive sphere in the air that approached them. They were overcome with absolute
fear from what they told me, and took off running and the thing actually
followed them little ways. So that episode is all about sort of that strange
stuff. And then episode seven is called The Taken, and that is our
abduction episode, and I you know, like, what we wanted to do
with the series is give you some of the high points, some of the
key points of ufology, and obviously one of those is going to be Betty
and Barney Hill. But we wanted to do it in a way where it
didn't bog down people like yourself who are very knowledgeable about the subject. So
because I do understand the idea that if you're sitting there and watching an episode
that spends twenty minutes on Betty and Barney Hill, when you've already heard that
story one hundred times, we're going to lose you. So what we did
there is, you know, like we actually went to the White Mountains,
We went to the locations where the Hills were, and that story is explained
throughout the episode, but it's intertwined with it's basically using the Betty and Barney
Hill abduction events as a way to explain how it's indicative of something much larger,
and that's the abduction phenomenon in general. And we interviewed multiple experiencers,
people who claim to be abducted or have gone through abductions, and then we
sort of expand on that and get into some of the theories why that's happening
and what the purpose of it is. But the Hill's abduction was really important
to me to have involved. And then John Horgan was kind enough to give
us access to that interview with Betty which was actually hurled last interview. I
think it was done in nineteen ninety nine, and you'll actually see snippets of
that interview, and if you want to, you can actually watch that whole
interview on YouTube. I think if you search like the Secret or the Last,
it's either the Secret Betty Hill Interview or the Last Betty Hill interview you'll
find that. But we were able to use snippets of that interview and I
think that does a lot to really heighten the tenseness of that episode. But
yeah, there was also a trip to Area fifty one we went on which
happened to coincide with the same day that that storm Area fifty one event where
a broke in the mainstream happened to be the same day that we were driving
out the Area fifty one, And when we got out there, we had
Facebook messages, we had we had been live streaming of our drive out there.
In four hundred and seventy five thousand people ended up watching our live stream
because it was going viral and someone had shared that in that storm area fifty
one group. So there were there were a lot of incidents like that that
happened throughout the series. And I'm trying to think of like some really key
cases and everything is slipping in my mind, so I'm doing a terrible job
of that. Well, that's all right. We have a one caller Bill
from New York Bill. We're gonna have to make this quick because we only
got a couple of minutes left, So go ahead. What is the picture
on the right hand side? In the comments section, we had it narrowed
down to an ant eater or Jesus man. This is in YouTube. There's
a video of us basically for the cast listener. So we have on YouTube.
Seth's background has some posters, So yeah, what do you have going
on? Back on the right hand side? So this side, is that
what we're talking about? Because on the far on the far side, the
white one, the small one looks kind of like an ant eater from here
or it could be Jesus. We're not sure Jesus. Jesus isn't in here.
There's there's uh, there's a there's a Mothman poster, there's a Minerva
Monster poster, and then like a small Town Monsters compilation poster. Over here,
I've got an original lobby card from the Legend of Boggy Creek. But
you might be looking at the what is actually like a moth It's actually the
poster has a full scale moth on it. The other side the little one.
Oh, this one, that's what I just said. That's a lobby
card. That's a lobby card from the Legend of Boggy Creek and it's uh,
it's one of the it's one of the characters falling through a window after
being terrified by the Fouk Monster. Wow. Hey, Bill, if you
weren't even close, I'm so that was entertaining, Bill, So thank you
for the call. All right, thanks, all right, So we just
have a couple of minutes left, so are just like a minute or so
one more time if you would give out the website where someone can go.
I saw there was on iTunes. It's what other platforms are you going to
have that on? Yeah? So, so the big rollout for on the
Trail of is going to hit Amazon and Vimeo on demand right now. That
is the only two planned release date places, but we have a meeting tomorrow
that could affect that it could get a much wider release. But all of
our stuff is available on Amazon too, if you're if you're into cryptids and
all that, you can look up small Town Monsters on Amazon and it'll take
you right to a landing page that will link you back to pretty much every
movie movie. And I know, we just put up the Moment of the
Missouri Monster on Amazon Prime, so that's actually free for Prime subscribers. A
lot of our movies are actually free on Amazon right, so you could if
you're going if you're listening to this and you want to watch Invasion on Chestnut
Ridge, and that's on there. The Math Made a Point, Pleasant and
The Flatwood's Monster are not currently free on Prime, but they're both on there,
and everything is on there if you're looking for if you're like an iTunes
Google Play user, you can look up The Mathmada Point, Pleasant, Invasion
on Chestnut Ridge, and Boggy Creek Monster on there. You can learn more
about us at Smalltown Monsters dot com. On the trail of dot TV,
we post everything you can actually watch on the Trail of big Foot free at
on the trail of dot tv, And if you're interested in helping fund our
movies and getting some really cool rewards in return, you can go on Kickstarter
and just search Smalltown Monsters or Mothman or bell Witch or UFO those you should
be able to to turn it up that way. Thanks so much, Seth.
We are totally out of time. I really appreciate it. Thanks for
having me, all right, have a good one. All right, everyone,
So thank you, and that's it for our show tonight. Thank you
so much for listening. We'll be back next week with Dave Marler, and
I want to thank everyone that is listening and supports the show as well,
and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.