WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:08.039 Well, whiskey coming, fame, my pain, my brain, Oh whiskey 2 00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:16.679 go le Men from Powerline blog dot com and produced by Ricochet dot Com. 3 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:23.480 This is the three Whiskey Happy Hour with your bartenders Steve Hayward, John You 4 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:31.480 and power Lines International Woman of Mystery Lucretia's gotta give me and let that whiskey 5 00:00:31.559 --> 00:00:41.759 blow. Where you're being in love down in Low Well. Welcome everybody to 6 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:47.439 the latest episode of the Three Whiskey Happy Hour. I'm your host, co 7 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:54.000 host John You, and I'm joined by my partners in crime, Steve my 8 00:00:55.039 --> 00:01:07.640 multi state multi month criminal enterprise under the Georgia Rica Statute Steward by Steve Hayward, 9 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:14.000 Hi, Steve, Hi, John and the International Woman of Mystery Lucretia. 10 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:18.519 Hi, Lucresia. John. Good to see you, Good to see 11 00:01:18.519 --> 00:01:22.519 you. Guys. We have I don't know, I don't know how our 12 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:27.519 shows can't get any more packed. Today we're going to talk about our reactions 13 00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:34.920 to yesterday, well earlier, this week's debate in the Republican primaries, and 14 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:41.640 then we've got the little matter of President Trump showing up for his arrest in 15 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:47.359 Fulton County, Georgia. Then we've also got a little thing happening out in 16 00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:53.239 Ukraine and Russia with the assassination of the head of the Wagner groups, Ogan, 17 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.640 can you prove that I'm sorry? In fact, someone was telling me 18 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.599 today that this might all be of a clever effort of his to just disappear 19 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:07.080 and go off to some solitary fortress in Bali. And then if we have 20 00:02:07.199 --> 00:02:10.639 any time left, we've got a whole bunch of other issues to talk about, 21 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:15.800 including we still have to talk about some more favorite books. If anybody's 22 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:20.080 got some, I'll figure out the subject and let's bring it on them. 23 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:28.280 But first let's ask Steve and Lucresha. Maybe start with Lucresha, what'd you 24 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:32.680 think of the debates? And is it true what everybody's saying that the person 25 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:37.879 most like you on the debate stage was the vague Ramaswamy. I hope so. 26 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:43.080 I hope so, because he was the one with all the energy. 27 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:47.240 And I told Steve before he came on that he gave my favorite line of 28 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:51.759 the night, which I know isn't going to surprise you. John where when 29 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:54.639 Nikki Haley was talking about how important it was that we were in Ukraine, 30 00:02:54.680 --> 00:03:00.000 et cetera, et cetera. Ramaswamy said he wished her well on her future 31 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:05.560 career on the boards of Lockheed and Raytheon and I thought, I thought that 32 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:08.639 was the best dig of the night. Person Who do you think? Who 33 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:12.800 do you think was the winner? And who do you think was the loser? 34 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:15.280 Or nobody actually wins and loses a debate with nine people, So I 35 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:17.719 put it a different way. Who do you think did the best and who 36 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:20.719 do you think did the worst? And why? Okay, so here's the 37 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:23.639 honest to god truth, John. I didn't watch much of it. I 38 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:28.719 have less and less tolerance for these sorts of things, and I'd rather just 39 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:31.840 sort of read it and then kind of take it in. But it has 40 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:38.680 been kind of interesting. I've read dozens of different to takeaways. And I 41 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:44.960 don't see that the debate moved anything, to be honest with you, I 42 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:49.000 see that the never trumpers are still the never trumpers, the and so the 43 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:55.400 never trumpers really like you know, Chris Christie and Mike Pence and you know, 44 00:03:55.879 --> 00:04:03.639 and then the the the young people, I say almost exclusively the young 45 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:09.840 people, and maybe they're really nutty. Conservatives like me really liked Ramaswamy. 46 00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:15.160 People who liked DeSantis think he did great. People who thinks DeSantis is whatever, 47 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:18.680 I don't really get it. I don't get any of this. Think 48 00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:23.319 he did terrible. That he didn't smile. I haven't read the stupid thing 49 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:28.120 by some FBI body language guy just for the hell of it, because I 50 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:33.480 saw it. And supposedly the best body language of the night was Vivis Vives. 51 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:39.199 Sorry because he smiled and he was kind of in your face, but 52 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:45.519 he was sort of the happy warrior. DeSantis only managed one tiny little grin 53 00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:47.639 at the very end, and the rest of the time he was scowling and 54 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:54.839 looked really nervous. It was anyway, I thought that the commentary on the 55 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:58.759 and I refused to call it a debate. I refused to call it a 56 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:01.600 debate because there was an anything debating about it. It was just a bunch 57 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:08.759 of cliches and sound bites and too much interference by moderators. And even though 58 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:12.560 they say they all, you know, compared to past non debates, they 59 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:15.720 did a decent job, they still interject way too much into things. So 60 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:19.480 there's my thought. One last question, So you think a number of people 61 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:24.439 did well, Who do you think did badly or maybe putting it differently. 62 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:30.560 After this, who's the first person to drop out? Chris Christie? They 63 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:34.120 go why why? Had? I thought he had the best line of the 64 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:38.360 night when he said the vague I was like, why are we talking to 65 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:42.399 this guy? Was made by chat GPT? That was good? That was 66 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:46.920 a great lie. I guess I don't see that though? Why did he? 67 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:48.720 I mean, I guess it was a cute see line, but it 68 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:54.439 doesn't maybe maybe because I didn't watch most of it, but see but no, 69 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:59.360 sorry, go ahead, no, I'm asking, but this is well, 70 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:00.720 this is the prob with this debates. We remember who got off a 71 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:05.439 zingger line, whether it's Vivek attacking Haley, Now that does draws into some 72 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:09.839 substance. But the line about Zvec, that's just a personal side swipe and 73 00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:12.959 it's kind of fun. But that's why I remember, and not any of 74 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:15.800 the arguments they made that might change minds on an issue. And that's why 75 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:17.560 I didn't watch it either. I've read about it. I hate these debates 76 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:25.279 because they're not debates. But one of the reasons I hate them is even 77 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:29.399 Fox News tends to ask questions of Republicans based on a liberal agenda. So 78 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:33.360 Martha McCallum asked the panel, do you I've just I forget who she started 79 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:36.800 with, do you favor a nationwide abortion band of what fifteen weeks or whatever 80 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:44.720 it was with Nicky Haley? Was that Nicky Haley? Yeah? Now again 81 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:48.040 Republican incompetence in malpractice. That is the moment when you want to attack the 82 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:53.360 media. Attacking the media is always a winning play with the Republican base. 83 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:57.439 And I think the answer should have begun with I will answer that question, 84 00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:00.519 Martha when you can point to me and you or any of your colleagues have 85 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:06.000 ever asked the Democratic presidential field why they favor late term abortion? It's never 86 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:11.399 been done. Why not? So you know you're you're asking us questions drawn 87 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:15.399 from the National Associate Organization of Women. How about you asked them a question 88 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:18.040 sometime from the light to life perspective. And I'll wait and they could have 89 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:21.279 added by the way, Uh, you know, I know Democrats won't come 90 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:25.639 on Fox News, will go on MSNBC. I know they're chicken to answer 91 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:30.120 those questions. So make that an issue about that particular issue when it comes 92 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:34.000 up. I've said before about what I think beyond that, of the rhetorical 93 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:40.839 failures of Republicans on abortion, I'll restate it again briefly. Still, the 94 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:45.399 only Republican who's argued effectively on the substance of the issue in presidential politics and 95 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:48.160 the last two generations was Ronald Reagan, both in eighty and eighty four. 96 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:51.759 So, you know, nineteen eighty he you know, he talked about and 97 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:55.240 at first debate with John Anderson, he says, I noticed all the people 98 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:58.279 who are for abortion, I've already been born, which is a good line. 99 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:03.079 And then, remember we've talked about this before. Remember he published his 100 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:05.680 little book Abortion in the Contents of a Nation right at the beginning of the 101 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:11.800 eighty four reelection campaign, and there he drew the direct comparison between the dread 102 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:16.279 Scott case and Roe versus Way. Our friend Michael Yeoman had something to do 103 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:18.000 with the writing of that book and the crafting of the arguments. And if 104 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:22.199 you go back, although the feminists are in a tizzy in nineteen eighty four, 105 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:26.680 Democrats didn't attack Reagan very much on abortion. I think there's a reason 106 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:30.600 for that. They are actually afraid to take up the argument with somebody who 107 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.320 was going to be on the offense about it the way Reagan was. Our 108 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:37.480 team is still defensive about this, and I think, by the way, 109 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:39.159 LUCRETI, I think you'll agree with me. I think you want to have 110 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:45.519 a variation to continue Reagan's argument that yet the extent of public opinion is not 111 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.879 in favor of a national abortion ban. It's because the Democrats in recent years 112 00:08:48.919 --> 00:08:54.320 have been just like the Democrats in eighteen sixty in debauching the public mind called 113 00:08:54.399 --> 00:08:58.039 that Lincoln language on slavery. I think that would be very effective and drive 114 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:01.639 the left nuts. One last thing. Sorry I went on too long. 115 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:05.039 I mean I have thoughts on winners and losers. But here's what I would 116 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:07.559 do for a debate. I think what you do is you find the qualified 117 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:09.799 candidates. I think there are too many of them. They let him self 118 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:13.519 qualify and all that, but you have five or six of the serious ones, 119 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:16.720 and then by lottery, you pick one of them to open the debate 120 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:22.679 with a five to seven minute uninterrupted statement on whatever issue they choose. And 121 00:09:22.759 --> 00:09:24.440 then I'm not sure what step two is. It would be allowing the other 122 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:28.120 candidates in some order, maybe not all of them, because you don't want 123 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.360 all of them shooting at the person or uh, you know, giving their 124 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:33.559 own view on In other words, it would it would, It would make 125 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:37.200 the date and more substantive. You'd hear more from an each individual candidate and 126 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.240 less of the sound bite. You know, give me your healthcare plan in 127 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:43.159 sixty seconds. Nonsense? That beget Now give me a show of hands. 128 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:48.639 That nonsense, right? That was ruined de Santis's best right or nothing of 129 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:52.399 the night when he says we're not school children school kids? Right? Yeah, 130 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:58.000 yeah, and he guys, you guys are both students of the Master 131 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:01.320 of the Lincoln Douglas debates, and you're just trying to restore it to the 132 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:05.759 Lincoln four and a half, let's see, No, No, an hour 133 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:11.159 opening, an hour and a half rejoinder, and a half an hour rejoinder 134 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:16.080 to the rejoinder. Is that how it works? Right? I'm not sure 135 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:18.360 it was two and I think it might just been an hour and a half. 136 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:20.799 They were longer. But you're right, you have to write about the 137 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:24.200 format. Yes, you've got to lay out a long argument. Yes, 138 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:28.919 right, yes, exactly, that's why. Yes, yeah, we have 139 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:33.840 audience has the attention span of five minutes. If you're lucky so well. 140 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:35.360 I say it would take them getting used to, but I think it would. 141 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.720 It would make the media work harder too. I think not only that, 142 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:41.919 but you know what, maybe the audience, maybe the audience does, 143 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:50.279 maybe they don't remember that these supposedly uneducated rubs back in Illinois in the you 144 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:54.519 know, mid nineteenth century would go out and Steve was complaining a moment ago 145 00:10:54.639 --> 00:11:01.000 that he's in the Bay Area without air conditioning. Imagine I've been in Illinois 146 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:07.320 summer and the late summer and the early fall. And when these debates were 147 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:11.799 held, the seven Lincoln Douglas debates were held, twenty to thirty thousand people 148 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:16.840 attended and listened for those I really do think it was a full three hours 149 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.919 between the two of them, but I'll double check. But my point is, 150 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:24.519 and you know, they didn't have speakers, they didn't have loudspeakers or 151 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:28.399 anything like that, so you're straining to hear. But people stayed there for 152 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:31.240 the whole thing. They responded, and you know, I cannot believe that 153 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:37.399 people then were that much more intelligent, that much more well read, or 154 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:43.600 anything like that. It's just our expectations now are so low that I don't 155 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:48.039 know. I think I don't know, although you know there was a you 156 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:52.360 know, a theatrical element to those It was more i'll say Shakespearean, right. 157 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:54.480 I mean, if you read certain transcripts of those debates, you'll hear 158 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:58.440 the audience not just the rup with applause, but cheers and saying you hit 159 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:03.240 him again, Abe, You know it was it was like, yeah, 160 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:09.759 yeah, just for the moment, off the format and ask back to Lucrisia. 161 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:15.639 Well, I mean there were some important differences between the candidates. Oh 162 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.639 what were the some of the most important ones, and who did you think 163 00:12:18.759 --> 00:12:22.000 was on the right side of things? So you we just talked about abortion 164 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:30.519 with Nikki Haley and Mike Pants talking about abortion. What about your favorite subject? 165 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:35.320 Form favorite? Ukraine? Russia. Actually, everybody who took the side 166 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:39.720 against our intervention in Ukraine I was in favor of, and I thought they 167 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:46.480 had the better I actually thought they had the better arguments. Ramaswami, Ukraine 168 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:50.399 is not a priority for America. It's not a priority for America. Now 169 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:56.159 I am upset that they didn't, that nobody bothered to link our intervention in 170 00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:01.240 Ukraine with the corruption of the Biden crime family because I think that that's really 171 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:07.159 what's going on there. But okay, so that I liked that. I 172 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.799 I thought it was interesting that the crowd booed when who was it that said 173 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:18.720 climate change? That we spend more, that we've caused more damage basically forth 174 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:26.039 climate change policies, and we have than climate change has ever caused me. 175 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.799 I didn't hear that that's actually right. They booed a couple Yeah, of 176 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:31.960 course they booed a couple of things about climate change, which surprised me. 177 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:35.320 But I liked hearing that this. Ramaswami says, why are we this was 178 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:39.080 argument you made fun of me for John, Why are we spending all of 179 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:45.279 our money, uh, protecting the territorial integrity of Ukraine and not our own 180 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:48.759 territorial integrity. You know, those kinds of things I think probably go well 181 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:54.279 with people. My personal favor. I was telling Steve about this before you 182 00:13:54.360 --> 00:14:00.879 got on that the comments after the fact about Chris see are right up there 183 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:05.320 with that Babylon be thing that said, uh, political analysts agree, Chris 184 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:11.320 Christie will eat the competitors lunch. They follow on with us tipping the scales 185 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:18.200 tonight it was Chris Christie and he's sure to give a heavyweight performances. Yeah, 186 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:22.240 I think that's hilarious. Sorry, nobody did that on the debat stage, 187 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:26.240 but that was what made me laugh today. So well, he got 188 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:30.240 booed the most, apparently. And you know, the five thirty eight guys 189 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:35.039 have done some surveys of Republican viewers and it's interesting findings. Hailey did the 190 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:39.200 best, Ramaswamy, the second best is Santas did okay and Christy Bomb And 191 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:43.039 what about Tim Scott. I mean, every time I turned on Fox today 192 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:48.080 they had Tim Scott on. That's he's obviously their candidate, no doubt. 193 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.279 He was on every single show today when I because I was in the car, 194 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.200 and I don't think I mean, he got the least amount of time. 195 00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:01.279 And he's somebody's told him have one single message and never stray from it, 196 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:05.519 and he just keeps saying it over and over and over like a bad 197 00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:09.399 commercial. Well, I can't remember what that message. What is that? 198 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:11.919 I don't even know what that messaging message is? That. You know, 199 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:18.600 poor children in poor urban communities don't deserve the bad education that they get from 200 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:22.360 the teachers' unions in America as the land of opportunity, all of which I 201 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:26.360 agree with, by the way, I absolutely agree with. And he has 202 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:28.919 he has, you do, enough of a personal story to be able to 203 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:31.919 say that sort of thing, but I think he needs more. Yeah, 204 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:35.360 he's he's an an exciting guy. And you know, once again he reminds 205 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:39.200 me of Oh, I do want to give you my field theory, which 206 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:43.679 is Ramaswamy why he's going to do well for a while. Tim Scott reminds 207 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:46.279 me a little bit of Ben Carson, who's you know, Ben Carson's this 208 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:50.600 fine guy, but he was kind of flat in the every week that went 209 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:54.879 by in twenty sixteen. And but Republicans, at least since Pat Buchanan in 210 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:58.600 nineteen ninety two, or maybe even he could say Pat roberts in the eighty 211 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:02.039 eight, they want an outside and they really like an outsider who is an 212 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:04.919 outsider from politics, not just Washington. So you know, Pat robertson, 213 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:11.559 Pat Buchanon ninety two, Steve Forbes in ninety six, two thousand election doesn't 214 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.879 quite happen. But then you had what's it Herman Kaine in two thousand and 215 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.679 eight, about twenty twelve, Sorry, I think that's right. And then 216 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:23.080 you had Ben Carson, and then of course Donald Trump, the ultimate outsider 217 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:26.679 right outside of Washington, outside of politics, and now Vivia comes along and 218 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.960 he feels that as they say, too much now that Lane and I think 219 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:34.759 for a while Republicans are gonna like him. And then what about the youth 220 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:37.519 part? What about the name part? Here, here's what I do. 221 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:45.639 If I'm Ramaswamy, I point out how damn old everybody in Washington, DC 222 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:48.879 is, every single person in a position of power. Maybe the slight exception 223 00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:53.279 of Kevin McCarthy, right, is just old. They're so damn old, 224 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:59.480 And isn't and isn't it time that you know, the younger people in America 225 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:03.159 who are going to be paying off this debt for the next thousand years. 226 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:07.680 I had some representation there that would be you know, he doesn't that help 227 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:11.839 to Santis too? I mean De Santis is pretty not that much older. 228 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.559 Yeah, right, yeah, And I do think he's actually made that argument 229 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:19.119 on more than one occasion. He's the new generation and so on. But 230 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:26.960 he didn't have the he didn't have the energy that that vivic how do you 231 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:32.720 say it? So, I'm told it rhymes with cake. Oh that helps 232 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:37.160 you? I finally remember how to say last name's going to be a problem. 233 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:41.000 Probably eat it too. Yeah, I was working vote from I was 234 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:45.720 working on that. Yeah, I mean, there's there's always been space for 235 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:48.519 you. Remember Ron Paul then Rampaul were very poputive with the younger voters. 236 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:52.559 Partner, that's a libertarian vibe that younger voters like my you know, my 237 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:57.079 college boy. He loves vivic so far. So there you go. Yeah, 238 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:02.079 he's quite taken with him. So I feel I'm missing out. I 239 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.279 don't think the guy's got a chance. But let me ask you this. 240 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:11.359 I thought you guys were going to say in terms of why, you know, 241 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:14.119 who did best? Although I don't think he has a chance either. 242 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:19.960 The guy I thought who outperformed expectations was Mike Pence. Oh god him. 243 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:25.160 No. But just as a matter of like debate technique, how what do 244 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:29.119 you agree? Disagreed? Just like hee, he spoke the most, apparently 245 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:37.200 and talking because he interrupted everybody, just like I'm doing right now. She 246 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:45.000 doesn't like a fellow traveler. I don't really mind. There's just something patronizing 247 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:52.960 and stiff and wooden and and preachy, and I don't know, no, 248 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:56.119 and and you know, I don't like that kind of disloyalty amongst people. 249 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:02.119 I really don't. I mean, he owed Trump a little more loyalty, 250 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.519 if nothing else, just to have been quiet about it. But instead he's 251 00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:08.880 exploiting something that he really shouldn't be exploiting. And I don't like that at 252 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:17.039 all. Whatever you think about what really happened in twenty twenty, there's I 253 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:21.039 just I don't like disloyalty. There's no reason for him to have to be 254 00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:23.720 that disloyal. So, well, you're basically saying he shouldn't be running. 255 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:30.319 I do definitely think you shouldn't be running. Yeah, I'd rather have a 256 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:36.119 Johnny quest. So Steve the same question to the ask the critia. What 257 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:41.119 was an issue that you saw there was a really substantive difference between the candidates 258 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:45.799 important you know, Ukraine was one, Abortion was another. What's another important 259 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:49.440 difference amongst the candidates that you saw and who you think came out on the 260 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:55.039 right side of it. I'm not sure they differ that much. I do 261 00:19:55.279 --> 00:20:00.400 think Christy he didn't bring it up last night, and he was pressed on 262 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:04.200 the matter. As I understand it, he's not keen on you know, 263 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:11.920 the battle against Wokerie, partly because I think vivek V and the Sants is 264 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:14.200 a corner of the market on that issue, right, I mean, that's 265 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:19.319 been the Sansis slogan is Florida's where Woke goes to die. And it supposedly 266 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.519 Christie's strategy is to go all in on New Hampshire, which is not a 267 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:26.680 state. Supposedly that's much a tune to some of these culture war issues in 268 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:30.480 Wokerie and all the rest of that. If they pressed him on that, 269 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.839 he might have said something dumb or something offensive, right, I mean, 270 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:37.279 we know Governor Senunu up in New Hampshire has said no, he shouldn't be 271 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:38.440 running on these issues. It's a bad idea. And I'm you know, 272 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:42.799 this is the last dying gasp of the bush Wazi as I call people like 273 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:47.799 Sunu, you know, marketing back to his dad who gave us David suit. 274 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:52.559 But I'm rambling on another direction. What about Asa? Yeah, I 275 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:56.079 didn't he chopped right facing the planet right God? And that guy Bergham where 276 00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:00.799 he where'd he go? Yeah? People thought he did well, but I 277 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:06.160 didn't. I'd haven't heard what. But those little horse race things are very 278 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:10.920 interesting because we didn't expect Mike pants he's a wooden and preachy and all those 279 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:15.319 other things to do very well. Well, he was loudly wooden and preachy 280 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:19.400 when he was surprised. I wanted to say, were you surprised that when 281 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:25.960 the hosts asked would you still support Donald Trump if you to win the nomination 282 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:30.559 but then convicted and sent to jail? Were surprised that everybody said yes, 283 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:38.160 aside from Christy and Hutchinson. And it would look like perhaps de Santis wasn't 284 00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:42.200 sure what to say first until he looked around at everybody else's hands, and 285 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:45.279 then he stuck his hand up. I have a home about that reaction. 286 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:49.119 Well, I have a hunch that de Santis prepared for a different dynamic of 287 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:52.200 the debate. I think he thought he was going to get attacked, and 288 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:57.880 I'll bet he had responses practiced and rehearsed and in the inventory defend off attacks 289 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:00.319 and the counter attack. And it did happened that way. Nobody really went 290 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.720 after him. That was one of the surprises. The other one is, 291 00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:11.160 you know, we now remember twenty sixteen and then of course the twenty twenty 292 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.359 general election debates with Trump, and it may be starting to dawn on people. 293 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.640 How different how I just imagine how different that debate would have been if 294 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.480 Trump had been there, and if oh, yeah, I'm flying off in 295 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:23.000 the morning to get my mug shot taken. It would have just been a 296 00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:26.960 complete, completely different dynamic. And who knows how that would go and whether 297 00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:30.279 I mean, I don't, I don't know. I can't predict how this 298 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:33.359 is going to turn out. If Trump shows up, it's going to be 299 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.240 back to the good old days, and Roma Swami is going to have a 300 00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:38.079 problem because he was trying to be the mini me, you know, saying 301 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.680 all these people on the stage and been bought and paid for, you know, 302 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:45.559 well that was Trump's line from twenty sixteen. He kind of And then 303 00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:49.720 but if Trump stays out, maybe the lot of voters say, you know, 304 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.279 these guys are actually pretty good. There's enough of us might be peeled 305 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:56.680 away from Trump. You might see the race start to shake up. And 306 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:00.640 then who knows what happens at that point. I don't know. Okay. 307 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.359 All I want to say is, let me remind you that Steve last let's 308 00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:10.160 not listen to his predictions anymore. Because his prediction last week that Trump was 309 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:17.400 going to show up, right, Sorry, Steve predictions, I'm wrong about 310 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:19.720 it all the time. But but no, But it's a good point to 311 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:27.079 examine Steve's was it tactically smart for Trump? And Lucrisias this was tactically smart 312 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:30.559 for Trump not to show up? Or did this? I mean some of 313 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:34.920 the commentary is Trump comes out the biggest winner. I actually didn't get that 314 00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:38.680 sense without I agree with Steve. Without Trump there, Actually I think that 315 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.839 debate had a very different dynamic, was more substantive. I think it would 316 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.240 have been if Trump hadn't been there, You've Trump had been there, they 317 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.119 would have spent a lot more time talking about Trump's prosecutions. I bet, 318 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:51.839 yeah, yeah, except that they still spend an awful lot of time. 319 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:56.119 And part of this is Brett Baron more than McCallum's fault. They spend a 320 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:00.680 lot of time talking about Trump. And remember that, as nearly as I 321 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:10.119 can tell, the thing on Twitter is over two hundred million views. Interview 322 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:14.759 with Tuckers over two hundred million views. And I'm I'm told that to watch 323 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:17.799 those who watch the debate and those who have gone back to it after the 324 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.039 fact, is you know less than less than a tenth of that, so 325 00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:26.880 I don't know what that says about things. Two hundred million is a lot 326 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:30.559 of views. Now, that can be the same person watching it two hundred 327 00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:34.400 million times, I suppose clicking on it, but yeah it could Yeah, 328 00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:38.400 that's right. I mean that could also be one hundred million people clicking on 329 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:42.200 it for five minutes. That doesn't mean they completely watched the whole thing. 330 00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:47.160 I'm not sure if Twitter videos allow you to know how many people finish them 331 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.680 or the events they I think they don't. Actually I read several times that 332 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:56.599 they don't. But right, because you will right to go at least watch 333 00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:03.119 a little bit of it, that means something. Yeah, curiosity probably away 334 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:04.920 the same to say about it, But I mean YouTube, I'm not sure 335 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.240 you can find this about every video, but you're on that you put up, 336 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:11.440 you can. Do you know the data on how long people watch it? 337 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.279 Do they quit watching the five minute mark and so forth? And what 338 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:18.160 the falloff is? Now? I did you know the clips I've seen? 339 00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:19.799 Now, I'd never clicked on the actual thing, but there've been lots of 340 00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:22.759 clips have been popping up and Twitter feeds, and I looked at a few 341 00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:26.599 of them, and what struck me was Trump was had a very different demeanor. 342 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:30.559 He was very calm, He was very I thought, measured. It 343 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:33.480 was very interesting when January six came up, and you know, he said, 344 00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:36.559 well, that was a bad day, and you know, there are 345 00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:38.599 a lot of great people there, a small number of bad people did some 346 00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:42.920 bad stuff. And then he also said, you know, very cleverly to 347 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:47.920 people listening carefully, there's a whole bunch of different scenarios about how that day 348 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:51.680 played out that we can think about. Right, So he didn't go beyond 349 00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:53.880 that, but it was pretty clear what he was suggesting. But so that 350 00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:59.240 was a calm, measured Trump that you're not used to seeing as much. 351 00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:03.839 And the other one is Lucretia. Tucker asked Lucretia's style questions, did you 352 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:07.680 catch that right? What I forget how we put it? What makes you 353 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:11.599 think they're not going to shoot you? Somebody's not going to shoot you assassinated? 354 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:15.680 Well, but I remember he shuts it off by wait, that's what 355 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:21.079 I was going to mention. He asked that. Tucker asked that question after 356 00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:29.279 he asked Trump if he if Trump thought that Jeffrey Epstein had yet suicide or 357 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:34.599 had or if he had been assassinated, and Trump I couldn't believe it, 358 00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:41.920 declined to answer that he came back with a kind of whoam, Well, 359 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:47.599 he probably committed suicide, but I don't rather than you know, buying into 360 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:49.799 the conspiracy theory that I buy into, or at least that I have fun 361 00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:55.160 buying into. You know, I love of course, don't we all right? 362 00:26:55.640 --> 00:26:57.359 By the way, not the craziest question of the night. The craziest 363 00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:03.480 question to Chris Christie was on UFOs in Republican debate. His answer wasn't bad. 364 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.519 His answer to that was pretty good. I would it was basically, 365 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.240 I can't believe you're asking me this. Yeah, you know, when was 366 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:15.440 the last time they asked about UFOs at a serious presidential Debrino? I know, 367 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:22.039 God, yeah, Steve, what do you think about Trump's tactical decision 368 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.680 not to shot if you were just starting to yeah, I don't know. 369 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.160 I mean, uh, you know, having been wrong last week thinking he'd 370 00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:33.000 show up with lots of drama and you know, come marching in the room 371 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:37.279 with you know, a couple of girls with feather bow as like a boxer 372 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:40.519 coming in Las Vegas or something. That's what I really thought he might do. 373 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.039 I think he won the day after. You know, he goes down 374 00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:48.359 there and he gets his mug shot, and he clearly thought about what he 375 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:51.599 wanted the mug shot to look like, I mean, really mean and honoring. 376 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:53.720 And it's already up on T shirts. I think, yeah, T 377 00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:59.799 shirts, bumper stickers, Uh yeah, all sorts of cool places. You 378 00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:03.079 can get it a teacher for only thirty four dollars. Yeah, it's gonna 379 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.480 rival. It's gonna rival Shake Bovara in history. I think as a teacher's 380 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:11.039 scary face. I think, yeah, when she was helping, I'm sure 381 00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:15.960 that what's what's that stupid woman's name, the da Fanny, But you don't 382 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:19.119 say it like that, but well, yeah, yeah, that's not how 383 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.079 you say it. You're supposed to say it some other way, but I 384 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:29.720 forget anyway. I'm sure she was expecting it for him to look down trodden 385 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:33.039 and defeated and all of those things, because you know, she made sure 386 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:37.240 he had to go into that filthy, insect and fested jail, over crowded 387 00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:44.759 jail in Georgia to get uh what do they do? Booked? Booked right, 388 00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:48.240 yeah, and rained and some of them still haven't gone in and they 389 00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:53.079 only have till tomorrow. She's not grant she's not granting any extensions. Well, 390 00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:56.200 then then I hear read to read to on Thursday that she wants to 391 00:28:56.279 --> 00:29:02.960 start the trial in late October twenty third. That is preposterous, it seems 392 00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:08.000 to me, but I don't know. We have We've segued nicely into our 393 00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:15.359 second topic already, which is the Trump Trump getting a rain today. Very 394 00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:21.680 scary booking photo of the first mug shot of a former president I think ever, 395 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:26.359 because it has to be true because there was no over former president prosecuted 396 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:33.480 ever before until this year. Along with as Steve said, the DA would 397 00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:41.799 like has asked for in October twenty third trial date for all nineteen defendants several 398 00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.279 I think one is several of the reasons. The reason why not everybody has 399 00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:49.839 shown up to be booked, as at least two Mark Meadows and Jeffrey Clark, 400 00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:53.480 who's a Justice Apartment official and White House counsel I'm sorry, White House 401 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:59.279 chief of Staff have asked for the case to be removed out of state court 402 00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:02.000 and moved to federal court. So they're saying they don't have to show up, 403 00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:10.440 So Lucretia's We're back to you first, What do you think of this? 404 00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:15.000 What do you think of the photo? Do Trump somehow do some jiu 405 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.160 jitsu and upstage the debate itself by, you know, choosing to hand himself 406 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:22.240 in today on a Thursday, the day after the debate? But is this, 407 00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:29.839 in reality is setback for President Trump to get actually arraigned for the fourth 408 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:33.960 time? And why? I so, it's I don't know about a setback. 409 00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.960 It's certainly an awful thing, there's no doubt about that. But do 410 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:41.400 I think that Trump has managed absolutely to make the most out of it like 411 00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:47.759 he always does? Yes, I do believe that. I'm trying to show 412 00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:52.480 you this. I'm you know, I'm still I don't know what to say 413 00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:56.759 about this, Joe, and this is so it's already you're show what Lucretia 414 00:30:56.759 --> 00:30:59.519 is showing us. If you can't see you can't see it. As the 415 00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:04.279 photo is already on sweatshirts, T shirts and mugs and it says the dawn 416 00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:10.400 You know, you know, the guy is an amazing performer, right, 417 00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:12.359 there's no doubt about them. But you know what, never mind Trump, 418 00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:18.559 never mind Juliani, never mind Mark Meadows and all the other people who are 419 00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:26.920 essentially, let leave Trump aside the lawyers who are essentially being prosecuted as conspirators 420 00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:32.079 to give legal advice. I mean, as a lawyer, doesn't that bother 421 00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:34.400 you, John, doesn't it? I mean, you could have been one 422 00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:38.240 of those people. You didn't give maybe legal advice to Trump, but you 423 00:31:38.359 --> 00:31:41.680 probably gave a little bit of legal advice to John Eastman now and then right, 424 00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:48.559 that's on the advice. Okay, sorry, I shouldn't. I'm just 425 00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:53.599 I'm actually just I'm actually kidding, because you know, John had to They 426 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:59.359 took his phone and his email accounts and everything, and I think they found 427 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:06.440 one email between John and I during the entire post November period. But that's 428 00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:10.440 more than yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah so I so, I mean, 429 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:15.240 there's there's two different kinds of I think issues here on the charges. 430 00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:21.759 One is right, using this criminal Rico statute to charge a re election campaign 431 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:27.200 as a criminal enterprise. That's one issue. Then the second one is including 432 00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:32.200 Johnnystman, our friend, other people who are giving legal advice in that process 433 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:38.960 and they were unindicted co conspirators in these Special Councils charges against President Trump. 434 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:43.319 Too for January sixth. So it's not just Georgia that's doing this. It's 435 00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:45.680 not just a state prosecutor that's doing this. Is a federal you know, 436 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:53.279 the Justice Apartment is also thinking of charging and Jordan is actually investigating Fanny Fannie 437 00:32:53.480 --> 00:33:00.839 whatever name is. Willis for interfering. I forget all the things he's investigating 438 00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:06.480 her for, but he's saying, look, she's interfering with federal elected officials, 439 00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:09.920 which she has no right to do as a state district attorney, and 440 00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:16.559 to try to bring state Georgia laws to harass federal officials. I read it 441 00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:20.680 quickly, so I don't remember exactly all the things he's investigating her for, 442 00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:25.119 but I'm in favor of that. This is this is worth than Banana Republic 443 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:32.200 stuff. It Uh. You know that Mark Meadows is being considered a co 444 00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:38.640 conspirator and dieted because he arranged the phone call on behalf of Trump to Brad 445 00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:46.599 Raffenberger. Ra. Yeah, so he picks up the phone and makes a 446 00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:52.359 phone call and that makes him a co conspirator in a criminal conspiracy. I 447 00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:55.759 mean, it's ridiculous. I don't even know. I can't wrap my head 448 00:33:55.799 --> 00:34:00.359 around it now. Hold on a minute. We're not a banana republic. 449 00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:07.559 We're a democratic banana republic. That's sorry, I couldn't help it. Yeah, 450 00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:08.920 I mean, well, first of all, it seems to me the 451 00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:15.079 appellate claims over this could go on for years, your pre trial or post 452 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:21.360 trial. I mean, I've just it just seems completely absurd before you even 453 00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:23.159 raised the question of federalism. And you know, how can a state, 454 00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:29.119 you know, a county prosecutor be doing this. I don't have that much 455 00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:30.880 new to say about it. I mean, I've sort of sent my piece 456 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:35.199 last week. I almost said, though, what about Lucretia's point about the 457 00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:38.199 lawyers and giving constitutional advice? Yeah, well that you've waited on that. 458 00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:45.000 We should all disclose if you don't remember already that Steve Hayward and John Eastman 459 00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:51.000 were roommates in graduate school, right, and we can now reveal on the 460 00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:55.559 podcast that Steve is a true source of every idea John Eastman ever had that 461 00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:01.639 well, and Lucretia was a classmate with along with Leonard Levy. So oh 462 00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:07.159 yeah, we learned from the true source of the conspiracy hasn't been revealed. 463 00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:13.760 Well, it's all let's fault. Well, I will tell you a funny 464 00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:16.599 story just quickly. I you know, John and I used to jockey for 465 00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:20.440 the one space in the garage in the house we rented from Peter Drucker, 466 00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:24.320 the famous management guru. And one day, somehow in the garage I found 467 00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:29.679 some old photographs of John from like the seventh grade. This would have been 468 00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:30.760 in the seventies, I guess. And he had a big, bushy hair 469 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:36.280 like we had in the seventies, and he had one of those preposterous two 470 00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:39.880 inch leather watch bands that we all wore in the early seventies. And so 471 00:35:40.519 --> 00:35:44.960 I was working in a magazine at the time, and my publisher was a 472 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:47.320 very funny guy, former British soccer player. He said, oh, we 473 00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:51.119 gotta do a missing he knew he met Eastman. We got to do a 474 00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:52.960 missing children poster for him. That was back when you had the milk cartons 475 00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:58.199 stuff, right in the eighties. And so we type set this missing have 476 00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:00.239 you seen this child? The answers to all these strange trousie and names, 477 00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:05.960 and we put him up on bulletin boards all over Claremont. And one day 478 00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:08.880 we're going to Walter's Restaurant to have breakfast with Professor Hale Rude. We did 479 00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:13.360 that every Tuesday morning. And the waitress comes up and she looks at John 480 00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:15.840 says, hey, wait a minute, you're the kid on that poster, 481 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:20.400 aren't you. He never forgave me for that stunt. I don't have any 482 00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.960 of those. I've looked everywhere to see if I had one, but I 483 00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:24.440 can't find what I was going to say earlier, back to the serious point, 484 00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:27.800 and I skipped over it. But now I'll go back to it. 485 00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:30.320 You know, I read some of Mike Pence's book, especially about the whole 486 00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:35.559 January sixth affair, and okay, he didn't pay for it, No, 487 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:37.920 I was given a signed copy from you know, Pence's people at an event 488 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:42.800 that he was at, so I'll take a free book. And you know 489 00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:45.599 what put me off about it was not his account of the what I thought 490 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:46.320 were the facts in the law and all the rest of that. That's, 491 00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:51.119 you know, perfectly reasonable, but his references to Eastman and at that, 492 00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:54.079 you know, the ten pages about that, we're very snide like this guy, 493 00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:58.639 you know, this guy Eastman. It was, you know, sort 494 00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:02.400 of unworthy of a guy who otherwise is so pious. Uh. And you 495 00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:08.599 professores this Christian faith and anyway, okay, anyway, I was put off 496 00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:13.440 by that saying that's not that's not okay, not fair at all, but 497 00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:21.280 put it mildly anyway. It annoyed me. Everything about Pence annoys me these 498 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:25.320 days. Well, if he becomes president, I can never have dinner with 499 00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:29.920 you guys again. And I enjoy having dinner with you guys. Why not 500 00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:34.519 do we remember this, Johnny the pencil, right, yeah, the pencil. 501 00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:39.840 Never ever ever have dinner with a woman who's not your wife. I 502 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:45.679 guess maybe if your wife's around without a third person, nor Larry Well, 503 00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:50.159 I mean, yeah, I don't know. So let me ask you, 504 00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:52.199 Steve, before we leave this, who do you think is gonna who you 505 00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:55.239 think are going to be the first people to drop out of the race because 506 00:37:55.280 --> 00:38:00.159 of this debate? I don't. I'm not sure this debate will it. 507 00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:01.840 I think everyone's gonna want to stick around a couple of rounds because it's free 508 00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:07.440 and easy. But you know, Mayor Suarez of Miami was even on the 509 00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:09.000 debate stage, even he didn't make the stage. She didn't, okay, 510 00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:15.280 And then you know Asa Hutchinson and this governor Bergham guy. He may people 511 00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:17.199 say good things about him as a general matter. He may make a go 512 00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:20.320 of it here for a couple of innings, but I don't think he's going 513 00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:23.159 anywhere. So at least it's not you know what we had. We had 514 00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:27.480 so many candidates in twenty sixteen, you had to have split debates. It 515 00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:31.360 was absurd. So at least it's a somewhat more manageable field this year with 516 00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:36.800 you know, four or five reasonably top tier candidates, and I think, 517 00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.760 yeah, they'll they'll be out after Iowa. Let me ask you. Let 518 00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:45.519 me also ask you the question I asked Lucretia. Also, is Trump doing 519 00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:52.519 better out of all this or worse out of the combination of the monk shot, 520 00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:55.360 the indictment, and then choosing not to show up for the debate. 521 00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:00.239 Well, I'll be interested in the next round of survey. You know, 522 00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:02.960 with the caveat that the surveys are pretty crappy, but it had been struck 523 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:08.719 a couple of weeks ago with the voter surveys that show these very high negatives 524 00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.800 for Trump. I mean just they're just off the chart bad and people drawing 525 00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:15.320 a conclusion that means you can never possibly beat Biden. On the other hand, 526 00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:20.199 you know, last week or the week before or after this latest indictment, 527 00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:23.559 you had several polls from the reputable mainstream people in New York Times Post 528 00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:29.079 people like that, showing Biden with a mere one point lead over Trump. 529 00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:31.480 And we saw in twenty sixteen the people don't have to like Trump to vote 530 00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:35.719 for him, and so I can't tell what's going on. I think a 531 00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:39.559 lot of the stuff is obviously strengthening Trump with the Republican base. And if 532 00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:44.400 Trump, by the way, campaigns and talks through a whole campaign the way 533 00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:46.960 he did with Tucker Carlson this week, I think he wins over a lot 534 00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:49.639 of those people who don't like him. Because, by the way, when 535 00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:52.320 people say they don't like him, are they really are they saying they really 536 00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:55.159 really just low them, despise him, or they're just put off by his 537 00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:59.880 antics and they don't like him, but they'd vote for him. I don't 538 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:01.440 I think those numbers are that meaningful. I think it's those head to head 539 00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:05.360 numbers are more important. And right now it's a dead heat, which is 540 00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:10.639 amazing when you think about it. Also, stop there just wondering what you 541 00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:17.039 guys think I was listening to somebody I forget talk about the fact that that 542 00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:27.000 maybe go back to an earlier presidential contest and when you have X number of 543 00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:34.440 secondary candidates and a front runner, what really is the case? Not with 544 00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:37.000 Trump right now, but what is the cases if you add up all of 545 00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:45.159 those other people's percentages you get more than fifty percent. We're not at quite 546 00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:47.360 at that. I mean, what he's sixty percent in most of the polls, 547 00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:53.719 right, That's what Trump said. But if that slips, why isn't 548 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:59.000 there an attempt by all of those never trumpers to say, let's get out 549 00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.079 of the race and all of us endorsed somebody else, kind of like what 550 00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:07.079 happened with Biden. In order, Apresia anticipates my next question, and and 551 00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:13.280 Carl Rove, this is a weird feeling when Lucretia and kar Rover of making 552 00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:21.719 the same argument. I wasn't making the question, try so the Carl was. 553 00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:24.559 So Karl Rover agreed with Lucresha and those facts probably takes it in a 554 00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:29.840 different direction. So Karl Rove was saying, if you look at the polling 555 00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:34.960 in Iowa New Hampshire, Trump does not have a majority there he's running well 556 00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:38.800 short of his national polling, and so Rove used this to say, you 557 00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:45.719 could could you see a return to the importance of New Hampshire and Iowa in 558 00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:50.840 the nominating caucus? You know, with Biden, Biden lost the first two 559 00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:58.519 states, he had only one South Carolina after what Lucretia described happened. Could 560 00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:01.920 Iowa New Hampshire actually play a more important role like the kind they used to 561 00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:07.320 when it comes to the Republican primaries, given how the polling in those two 562 00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:12.960 states is quite different than these national polls that Steve's pointing to. I would 563 00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:16.719 say first really quickly that I don't think the Republican the Republican National Committee is 564 00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:23.719 capable of the kind of perfidy that the Democratic National Committee is capable of to 565 00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:29.159 be able to orchestrate, that is a difficult problem, right, yeah, 566 00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:30.920 yes, that's exactly right. Go ahead, Well, yeah, I was 567 00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:35.360 just gonna say something similar. The two parties have changed places. You know, 568 00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:37.639 the old line used to be Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in 569 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:43.920 line when it comes to nomination contests. So Republicans is always whose turn is 570 00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:46.760 it? So you know, it was Ronald Reagan after gerald Ford, George 571 00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:51.480 H. W. Bush after Reagan, George W. Bush after his dad, 572 00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:54.920 and you know, succeeding Clinton, right, and you know John McCain 573 00:42:55.039 --> 00:42:59.480 after he came in second, and then Mitt Romney after he came in second 574 00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:01.679 or third, right, and then suddenly that all blew up with Trump. 575 00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:07.400 Suddenly the Republicans fell in love with Trump in twenty sixteen. And the Democrats 576 00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:09.840 they always wanted, you know, George McGovern the politics of the candidate to 577 00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:14.159 the new left, and Jimmy Carter, this guy from nowhere who had to 578 00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:15.800 smile, and you know, you go on down the list and culminating of 579 00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:20.880 course with Obama. But they really fell hard for Obama, right, and 580 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:22.320 not for Hillary. It was her turn. They told her to go to 581 00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:27.199 hell. Uh So in twenty and twenty twenty, the amazing thing is the 582 00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:31.159 Democrats said, nope, sorry. Bernie Sanders is two weeks away from locking 583 00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:35.239 up the nomination, which would be a landslide loss to Trump. We have 584 00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:37.719 to stop him. Everybody has to fall in line behind Biden. Biden. 585 00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:42.559 I mean, have you ever met a Biden Democrat like you know, a 586 00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:45.400 Kennedy Democrat or a Bernie bro Right. There are no Biden Democrats. Well, 587 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:50.559 what wouldn't Biden Democrat even be right, like, okay, it would 588 00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:54.639 be well, I'm just saying Hunter Biden, right, No, I mean, 589 00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:58.280 the guy has no charisma. He's bombed every time he ran on his 590 00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:00.960 own. I think, but I'm to get an article done about what explains 591 00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:05.280 how deeply weird he is. I think, deep down inside, he knows 592 00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:07.360 he didn't get here on his own, that he is sure luck has brought 593 00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:12.920 him here, and he has an inferiority complex that's even greater than Lyndon Johnson's 594 00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:15.760 was. Because Johnson knew he didn't get there. Biden would never have made 595 00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:17.639 the presidency if he hadn't been picked to be Obama's vice president. Right, 596 00:44:17.679 --> 00:44:23.800 he knows this, and he still that a serious That's a serious question. 597 00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:30.119 There's a good point of creatures making said. If you read the liberal press, 598 00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:34.840 they've been running stories recently saying many of these points, but saying the 599 00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.400 reason Biden is there is because of Obama. Obama really has a huge amount 600 00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:44.400 of sway in yeah, Biden administration, and to the extent Biden's you know, 601 00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:46.639 checked out or not doing it or not top of things. It's Obama, 602 00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:51.559 who's really his people who are really still driving the train? Yeah, 603 00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:55.039 but John, I heard somebody the other day say, talking about the end 604 00:44:55.079 --> 00:45:01.920 of the whole ludicrous, really really abysmal situation with Biden and Maui, you 605 00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:07.360 know, the no comment followed by his performance there. Oh yeah, the 606 00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:09.719 kitchen fire. I know how you guys feel. Oh, you know, 607 00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:15.599 what a moron, but no, what a narcissistic Yeah, anyway, but 608 00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:20.199 here was I wouldn't have ever thought, by the way, if it happened 609 00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:29.280 to a Republican president about wearing high heels off the plane right when she was 610 00:45:29.320 --> 00:45:34.400 done to Katrina. No, but somebody mentioned that if Obama was really, 611 00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:40.360 you know, so much the puppet master behind the puppet here, why on 612 00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:46.239 earth did he not accompany Biden to Mallie When Biden went to Allie. It 613 00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:52.199 was a really interesting question, like Obama is from Hawaii, right from Hawaii, 614 00:45:52.360 --> 00:45:55.199 and think, I mean, that's the whole thing is just strange, 615 00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:59.960 like who's in charge there right now? Who are those It's a little bit 616 00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:04.599 like me asking you way back when about when he didn't even praise the Georgia 617 00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:07.480 Bulldogs, and I said, you know, it's just this bunch of stupid 618 00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:15.440 millennials who are so so far removed from from normal people's reality that they can't 619 00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:17.639 even think this through. So a bunch of people burned to death in Maui. 620 00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:22.280 Who cares? We got more important things to worry about, you know. 621 00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:24.280 But and look the Obama. I think that's a simple answer there. 622 00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:28.719 If Obama. I think that doesn't happen. For two reasons. If Obama 623 00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:32.840 went, he would have overshadowed Biden badly. And the second thing is I 624 00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:36.639 think Obama smart enough for No, he doesn't want to be next to this 625 00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:39.679 disaster of a president in Maui. No one that he's going to say all 626 00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:44.039 kinds of crazy stuff would It would have been a disaster for both of them, 627 00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:46.039 and so Obama. Who knows if they even thought to ask him, 628 00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:50.559 that's an interesting question. I'll bet they didn't. I bet they knew that 629 00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:52.519 that would be a disaster for both of them, and Obama wouldn't have accepted. 630 00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:57.599 I think he could have just taken Obama and not said a word. 631 00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:00.280 It would have been better. No. If yeah, I agree, Steve 632 00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:04.119 Obama, if he's smart, wants to go separately. Obama will go sooner 633 00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:07.199 or later and actually the worst that Obiden does as he has done now, 634 00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:12.840 Obama is just going to look better, right, you know, So I 635 00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:16.000 Obama can't lose either way by delaying and going by himself. But you're right, 636 00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:22.039 nucreatia, what a disaster. Well may my last two thoughts on this, 637 00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:24.920 unless you want to press further on it, John Is. I do 638 00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:29.800 keep hearing from you know, people who hang around with elite Democratic circles that 639 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:32.239 you know, their donor class, and a lot of you know, loyal 640 00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:37.159 Democrats are just terrified that Biden has not got it in him to run again 641 00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:39.519 and it's not going to physically make it right, and then they would be 642 00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:44.840 out of bed tomorrow. Well I know, but then the point I'm looking 643 00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:46.840 ahead to the campaign, they would all say they would be so relieved if 644 00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:51.039 he decided to step down. And the second thing is I've been meaning to 645 00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:53.880 mention is for reeks and right about it is And this has been leaking out 646 00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:57.679 of the press a bit. There's all this poll data that shows, for 647 00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:00.360 example, Trump pulling twenty per sound of the black vote right now, which 648 00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:02.360 is, you know, five points better than he did in the last two 649 00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:07.119 elections, and him doing better with the you know, working classes. The 650 00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:09.480 point is is that, oh and you see, we saw lower turnout from 651 00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:15.119 blacks and the midterm elections here this last year, and Democrats are terrified that 652 00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:20.800 they're going to lose the vote. They need to maintain their margins in all 653 00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:25.639 those close states and other places. So that's yeah. Since actually a thing 654 00:48:25.719 --> 00:48:30.679 that I meant to ask about the debate, but Steve's question brings it up, 655 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:35.559 is does that mean it's smart for Trump to pick black or Hispanic vice 656 00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.480 presidential candidate this time around to further eat into you? And so sure, 657 00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:45.760 it's actually a question I have for you. Who did did somebody during the 658 00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:51.480 debate just win the vice presidency? Were a lot of people auditioning really to 659 00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:55.320 be vice president? Tim Scott, the Vike Ramaswamy, Nicky Haley, they're 660 00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:59.840 all, you know, they're a little muted in their criticism of Trump. 661 00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:01.840 Is that is that because they're really running for vice president? Did you see 662 00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:07.639 someone actually sew up the job? Yeah? No, not not too soon 663 00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:13.079 for that. But we'll see. I still my short well, actually Trump 664 00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.159 attackers will probably not. I like this Kim Reynolds woman in Iowa. I 665 00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:17.440 think she doesn't get a lot of attention. From what I've seen, she's 666 00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:22.239 pretty good. And Okay, I'll stop there. Let's say that come back 667 00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:28.199 to that. Any last thoughts on the domestic stuff before we turn to the 668 00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:30.760 Only thing I was going to ask is the I heard the other day from 669 00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:37.920 somebody that that I think it was someone trying desperately to defend Calmala Harris and 670 00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:45.360 you know the job she'd done. But saying that, ultimately vice presidential picks 671 00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:52.159 maybe account for two to three percent of a bump one way. Uh, 672 00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:55.639 that's the that's the margin of the election these days. I think it could 673 00:49:55.679 --> 00:50:00.239 be right, Yeah, but they could. I mean in some way keys 674 00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:06.760 of someone like Kamala, there's also more than a two point or three percent 675 00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:09.679 bumped the other way. I would think, you know, someone who might 676 00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:16.199 be willing to vote for Biden knowing he had a younger, more capable possibility 677 00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:20.840 for vice president. When he's going to croak, which he surely has to 678 00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:24.119 sooner or later, you know, it's going to be harder for them to 679 00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:30.039 vote knowing Kamala is going to be the person. That's my opinion. I 680 00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:37.400 don't know. I just despiser Yeah, and We have a few more minutes 681 00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:40.599 left, trying to get as many issues as I can. Because its been 682 00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:45.280 such a busy week, we haven't even talked about Ukraine and Russia. I 683 00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:47.880 mean, the events there. If it weren't for Trump and weren't for the 684 00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:52.679 debates, and I'm actually in the debates, Ukraine was one of the main 685 00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:58.400 dividing issues. Ukraine I think would be the topic of conversation. Two developments. 686 00:50:59.079 --> 00:51:04.920 The Ukrainian counter counter offensive, which was much predicting a lot of hopes 687 00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:10.239 place, has barely changed. The front lines, has not achieved its objectives. 688 00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:15.039 The Russians actually have seemed to have been quite successful in building up their 689 00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:22.840 defenses and grinding down the attacks. There really has not been any major victories 690 00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:30.320 for the Ukraine so far. That's happening Ukraine, and then just this week 691 00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:36.039 you have any predocean the head of the WOG group seems to be choosing to 692 00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:38.840 fly and exploding airplanes. No, no, John, I know. The 693 00:51:38.920 --> 00:51:43.760 right line take on this is that I did not know airplanes could fall out 694 00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:49.920 of high rise windows. That's the preferred method, is that, you know, 695 00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:54.639 the worst thing I heard is that the theory that there was a bomb 696 00:51:54.800 --> 00:52:02.159 planted on the plane inside a case of wine. Yeah, wrong with them? 697 00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:07.599 Well it's because well, because he has just to draw the facts. 698 00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:10.519 They're initial reports as I was shot down by an anti aircraft missile, but 699 00:52:10.639 --> 00:52:15.480 now more recent reports are saying the plane exploded but there was no missal. 700 00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:21.400 Now I wonder how that happened. I did see on Twitter a supposed I 701 00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:23.079 say supposed. I can't. I'm not sure it's legitimate. But it was 702 00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:29.280 a Russia Today, you know RT headline and it said possible heart attack by 703 00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:35.800 pilot following third COVID booster injection, thought that, wait a minute, that 704 00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:38.320 can't possibly be real. If it is real, they're trolling the you know 705 00:52:38.440 --> 00:52:45.519 the okay, uh, what's that famous line from the Congress at Vienna in 706 00:52:45.559 --> 00:52:47.920 eighteen twelve, wasn't it? Where eighteen fifteen? When was it? I 707 00:52:49.039 --> 00:52:52.519 forget one of the one of the big potentates died in the middle of it, 708 00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:54.320 and Tally Rand or one of those guys, supposedly said, gosh, 709 00:52:54.320 --> 00:53:00.599 I wonder what his motive was. And you know what, it's the what's 710 00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:06.039 the signal putin sending here for consumably being behind a bomb to take out this 711 00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:08.719 guy? Gee? I don't know. I mean, there's always you can 712 00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:12.800 go up and down the list, right, but he's clearly not deterred or 713 00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:15.079 wants to send a signal. I mean, I wondered about that whole thing 714 00:53:15.159 --> 00:53:17.159 that had happened, whether it was really on the up and up, or 715 00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:22.400 whether it was a classic false flag operation which the Communists used to do all 716 00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:28.079 the time in Eastern Europe to flush out disloyal senior military officers and senior government 717 00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:30.079 officials. That was always a way to do it, or one way to 718 00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:34.880 do it. And you know that that Putin and what's this guy's name we're 719 00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:37.639 in on together in a certain way. It would appear now that that's not 720 00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:43.519 the case, but who knows, or maybe, like Romero do Orco and 721 00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:46.360 the Prince, the guy finally outlived his usefulness to Putin, and Putin wanted 722 00:53:46.360 --> 00:53:51.079 to make sure he'd send a message by getting rid of him. I think 723 00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:53.119 the bigger stories what's going on in the battlefield, But you know, I'll 724 00:53:53.159 --> 00:54:00.880 save that for now. Appreciate your thoughts about the untimely passing any progos. 725 00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:05.480 Uh. Like I said, I'm just upset about the case of wine. 726 00:54:08.199 --> 00:54:16.400 It might have been bad Russian wine right exactly. Uh, I'm gonna wait 727 00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:20.400 and see attitude. I'm a little bit more inclined, you know, because 728 00:54:20.599 --> 00:54:25.639 even though I don't still don't have that hat that lovely personally delearned to buy 729 00:54:25.719 --> 00:54:35.840 steveson designer conspiracy theory tinfoil hat. I want to wait and see what happens 730 00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:42.400 with all of this, because it certainly makes sense to uh do a little 731 00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:49.320 a little house cleaning and uh even put a little fear into people. Putin's 732 00:54:49.360 --> 00:54:55.239 good at that. But I'm wondering if if I saw the wreckage of the 733 00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:59.480 plane, I'm not sure that there's even enough to pull DNA out of that. 734 00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:02.599 Are you did you? Did you guys see it the fire? I 735 00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:07.239 mean, you don't much to trust of this. But the Russian government did 736 00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:10.480 say they did collect the remains of all the people on the plane, but 737 00:55:10.599 --> 00:55:15.440 they haven't said that they DNA matched them. They said it seems like the 738 00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:17.760 only reason they think Progosian was on the plane because he was on the right 739 00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:23.599 the manifestoes. Yeah, and there is video available now showing the plane actually 740 00:55:23.679 --> 00:55:28.400 falling out of the sky on fire, but doesn't show why. But does 741 00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:30.960 it? Just let me ask you guys don't even think that the whole thing 742 00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:36.000 with that guy and the Wagner group was all kind of strange anyway, and 743 00:55:36.119 --> 00:55:39.039 hard for us to fit into our Western way of thinking about these things. 744 00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:44.559 Uh So, I'm not the right person to ask about this. I'm really 745 00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:47.000 not because it all kind of confuses me, to be honest with you. 746 00:55:47.320 --> 00:55:51.840 Well, my last theory is he made one of those nifty escapes like Bane 747 00:55:51.920 --> 00:55:53.840 and whichever one of the Batman movies, you know, up in midair and 748 00:55:54.039 --> 00:55:59.599 if you ever saw that one where okay, never mind, I can see 749 00:55:59.599 --> 00:56:01.320 if I have no idea what you're talking about. Oh yeah, there's this 750 00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:06.599 great scene where the commandos intercept the plane in the air. It's anyways, 751 00:56:06.639 --> 00:56:08.800 oh yeah, yeah, right, that's what he did. And he's gonna 752 00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:12.599 show up in Gotham City and in a mask, and I don't know, 753 00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:20.199 okay, much more important is? I mean? It's just your significant Okay. 754 00:56:20.360 --> 00:56:23.280 So, so you know, Lucretia has been predicting here and a lot 755 00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:27.519 of evidence in her favor this week that we're gonna get COVID lockdowns again. 756 00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:31.800 Last I heard is Georgetown University is instituting a mask mandate as of the end 757 00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:36.320 of this week, which is annoying. Uh So we'll see if we're gonna 758 00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:38.760 get a you know, the branch Covidians as I call them, We're going 759 00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:43.079 to go on the rampage again. I were an article in the New York 760 00:56:43.159 --> 00:56:46.440 Post here what two months ago saying, uh, say, I'm kind of 761 00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:50.360 in the middle on this thing. I mean, all right, I'd like 762 00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:54.639 Ukraine to win. I'm not sure we're going about it in a I can 763 00:56:54.719 --> 00:56:59.440 see where it might be in our interest to curtail Russian aggression. We can 764 00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:00.960 talk about that a long time. The point is, I don't see that 765 00:57:01.000 --> 00:57:06.280 we have a strategy here. I don't Biden has still not Biden, I 766 00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:08.360 don't think has given a speech yet saying here are the stakes in Ukraine, 767 00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:12.559 here's our policy. Is our policy we want Ukraine to win and kick the 768 00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:15.280 Russians completely out of the country? Or are we fighting for a stalemate, 769 00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:20.880 in which case policy is very effective or And the reason why it reminds me 770 00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:23.519 of Vietnam is we were always afraid to escalate in Vietnam and take the war 771 00:57:23.800 --> 00:57:28.239 to North Vietnam because we were afraid of a wider war with the Soviet Union. 772 00:57:28.679 --> 00:57:31.159 Now we're afraid of a wider war with Russia that might engulf the other 773 00:57:31.239 --> 00:57:36.039 countries, you know, Poland and Romania and whoever else. But what is 774 00:57:36.079 --> 00:57:39.159 our policy? And so suddenly, after the media telling us for months that 775 00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:43.599 oh, there's gonna be this great Spring counter offensive and Ukrainians are gonna go 776 00:57:43.639 --> 00:57:45.719 out in the field, they're gonna kick but because the Russians have bad morale 777 00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:50.920 and bad equipment, and it hadn't happened, And instead what you hear is 778 00:57:50.960 --> 00:57:53.079 it's a stalemate at best, and maybe the Ukrainians have even gotten their nose 779 00:57:53.079 --> 00:57:57.480 bloodied a few times and taken big losses. And I'm like, gosh, 780 00:57:57.599 --> 00:58:00.360 maybe the media doesn't really know what they're talking about. So suddenly, here 781 00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:02.920 in the last week or ten days, a whole bunch of stories saying, 782 00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:08.039 gosh, the Ukrainian effort has really failed. And you keep hearing and analysts 783 00:58:08.119 --> 00:58:14.519 say again, these unnamed sources, which means the Biden, Pentagon or National 784 00:58:14.559 --> 00:58:20.000 Security Council or putting out the line that Ukraine has you know, their forces 785 00:58:20.039 --> 00:58:23.280 aren't being deployed right or not being commanded right. And my point is, 786 00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:25.280 if we want them to win, then what weapons do they need. We've 787 00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:30.239 been dribbling them out and fits and starts, with no clear rationale, and 788 00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:31.960 you know, the cynic in me says, it looks like our policy is 789 00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:36.079 we're going to fight to the last Ukrainian and hope that they all just get 790 00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:42.079 tired and you know, may again. You know, Henry Kissinger might think 791 00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:44.480 that's the you know, remember his old line of budd Iraq and Iran. 792 00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:49.039 I kid, they both lose and they just exhaust themselves ultimately. But that's 793 00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:52.159 really a terribly cynical policy. We're going to fight to the last Ukrainian and 794 00:58:52.280 --> 00:58:55.840 give them just enough to hang on and not be defeated, but not enough 795 00:58:55.880 --> 00:59:00.960 to win. I would like one or the other either decide it's not in 796 00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:05.760 our national interests and tell the Europeans this is your problem. Europeans quit, 797 00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:07.199 you know. And the Germans are now said they're not going to honor their 798 00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:12.400 pledge to increase their defense spending. Well, let them suffer the consequences of 799 00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:16.280 that. So that's my rant, which is halfway. Please lucrease. You're 800 00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:21.039 probably not enough, but lucre this is good. I know this is going 801 00:59:21.119 --> 00:59:23.079 to probably shock both of you. But one of the things I find most 802 00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:27.519 upsetting, John, I might be a little means you for a second, 803 00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:34.679 but they understand I don't embracing myself physically right right. I don't like the 804 00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:40.920 idea that we are sort of sacrificing given all the things that Steve just said, 805 00:59:42.360 --> 00:59:45.199 you know, that we're pushing this war. I believe there has been 806 00:59:45.800 --> 00:59:51.159 more than one opportunity for some kind of negotiated settlement and that the Biden administration 807 00:59:51.320 --> 00:59:53.119 is stopping it. I you know, don't have absolute proof of that, 808 00:59:53.199 --> 00:59:57.599 but there seems to be a lot of indication that that's the case, and 809 00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:00.400 we're doing so. You'll you'll say, John, that we're doing so, 810 01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:07.960 you know, weakening Putin, which is in our national interest, even if 811 01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:14.840 Ukraine is not, and it's not. I'm concerned about the fact that they 812 01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:22.280 found evidence of a one hundred and fifty thousand new graves outside the battlefields in 813 01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:28.760 Ukraine. I mean, should we really be pushing a war where we just 814 01:00:28.920 --> 01:00:34.800 don't give a damn about Ukrainian lives? Or are we that crass and self 815 01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:39.679 centered here in America that we don't care that you know, hundreds of tens 816 01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:45.039 of thousands at least of Russian and Ukrainian soldiers are losing their lives. That 817 01:00:45.239 --> 01:00:50.400 bothers me, especially, like I said, if they were doing it with 818 01:00:50.639 --> 01:00:54.119 no kind of interference from anybody else and this was their fight, that would 819 01:00:54.119 --> 01:00:58.079 be one thing. But I just wonder how much of it's being manipulated on 820 01:00:58.159 --> 01:01:01.199 the international stage for all sorts of reasons, which how very little to do 821 01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:07.800 with actually stopping Krutin's aggression. That's my thought on the matter. If that 822 01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:12.159 make Does that make sense? John? I mean, actually I think both 823 01:01:12.199 --> 01:01:15.320 of you are hearkening back to the debates we had in the Vietnam War, 824 01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:19.679 because you could say that's what we did in the Vietnam War. We never 825 01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:22.639 gave South Vietnam the weapons to win the war. We didn't want them to 826 01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:27.199 lose, but we didn't want the war to become wider, and so we 827 01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:35.599 had this kind of calibrated response rather than trying to win. And it's interesting 828 01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:38.360 more recent historical work shows that we were likely on the path to winning the 829 01:01:38.480 --> 01:01:42.920 Vietnam War towards the end, but we were there too. Remember we had 830 01:01:42.920 --> 01:01:45.199 I mean, we had troops on the ground there. We have troops on 831 01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:49.000 the ground in Ukraine too, but not like Vietnam. And in both of 832 01:01:49.039 --> 01:01:52.480 you making the point it seems, which is not the point by the way 833 01:01:52.519 --> 01:01:54.880 that Ramaswami was making, but you both want to make the point that if 834 01:01:54.920 --> 01:01:58.440 we're not going to pull out, it doesn't look like I mean, it 835 01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:01.239 does seem like there's a consensus to cut Ukraine. Often we are to try 836 01:02:01.280 --> 01:02:07.000 to win. And I guess I'm on the more cynical side. Well, 837 01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:10.239 yeah, but you're both. I think you're both. You are both you 838 01:02:10.360 --> 01:02:15.639 both combined political your political philosophy with the way you view foreign affairs. I 839 01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:20.679 think I just have a hard time being that cynical about so many young men 840 01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:24.880 losing their lives for something it's really not clear, and us playing a role 841 01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:29.480 in it that we don't really have an endgame on. I guess that's that's 842 01:02:29.559 --> 01:02:32.320 the problem. You kind of wonder if these leaks from the Biden Defense Department 843 01:02:32.440 --> 01:02:37.840 are preparing to bug out and blame Republicans for it. And it's not like 844 01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:39.559 we have a great track record in the last several decades, right, you 845 01:02:39.599 --> 01:02:44.079 know, we abandon the courage in Iraq in nineteen ninety one and the Afghans 846 01:02:44.159 --> 01:02:47.719 and then the Afghanistan, the Afghanis by Biden here two years ago. You 847 01:02:47.800 --> 01:02:52.599 could easily see you talk about cynicism. You could easily see them seeing trouble 848 01:02:52.679 --> 01:02:57.960 in Congress, and uh, you know, the really cynical move would be 849 01:02:58.079 --> 01:03:01.599 for Biden to cave on Afghan aid in some kind of budget deal next month 850 01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:05.199 with Republicans, because there's going to be a fight over the budget and a 851 01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:09.639 possible government shut down. Ukrainian need because what I say, a yeah, 852 01:03:09.679 --> 01:03:13.800 sorry, yeah, Ukrainian aid, right, but you know, you know, 853 01:03:13.880 --> 01:03:15.519 look, the leaks are coming from, as you said, Steve, 854 01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:22.199 from the Biden department, Defense department, because they don't want to bear responsibility 855 01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:25.679 for the counter offensive, grinding to a hall right that you know, the 856 01:03:25.800 --> 01:03:29.559 stories are, oh, we told them how to do this and they didn't 857 01:03:29.559 --> 01:03:31.920 listen to us. Right, Ukrainians are doing it all wrong. If they 858 01:03:31.960 --> 01:03:35.880 do only listen to us, or be more modest, or had a different 859 01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:39.159 war plan, they would be successful. So they're already trying to push the 860 01:03:39.559 --> 01:03:45.559 failure off onto others. But I agree that the part of the primary reason, 861 01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:46.760 it seems to me, is that we did not equip them fully. 862 01:03:47.719 --> 01:03:51.239 But maybe that's what they wanted to do. Maybe that's what Biden wants. 863 01:03:51.280 --> 01:03:54.519 He doesn't, as I say, he doesn't want the Ukrainians to really have 864 01:03:54.599 --> 01:03:59.440 an effective counter offensive because then they'll drive all the way to the Russian border, 865 01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:02.199 and then we'll have to have a tough decision about what are we going 866 01:04:02.320 --> 01:04:09.880 to right take away territory Russia thinks it's theirs. Yeah, yeah, I 867 01:04:10.000 --> 01:04:15.760 just see all kinds of bad endings to this either. Okay, that's yes. 868 01:04:15.159 --> 01:04:19.920 I guess the bleeding heart in me sees lots of bad outcomes right now. 869 01:04:20.679 --> 01:04:28.199 Yeah, I really do. And I admire you both because you're both 870 01:04:30.079 --> 01:04:34.119 taking what I admire but don't agree with. You fully on with the natural 871 01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:40.159 rights, have a source, and you give them equally to Russians and Ukrainians 872 01:04:40.199 --> 01:04:45.239 as you do to Americans, and you worry about the lives of Ukrainians Russians, 873 01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:50.320 right Yeah. I mean I'm the first one to jump in and say, 874 01:04:50.360 --> 01:04:54.000 if you're gonna if you've got an enemy and that enemy needs to be 875 01:04:54.079 --> 01:04:56.199 vanquished, and you do it. You do it quickly, You do it, 876 01:04:56.280 --> 01:04:59.840 you get it over with. You make sure that they never have any 877 01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:03.360 reason, you know, you do the German's March to the Sea. Absolutely, 878 01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:10.320 but I don't see any purpose to this war or any end of this 879 01:05:10.440 --> 01:05:14.079 war that justifies it. That's my problem, other than you know how I 880 01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:15.760 feel about it. The corrupt side of me, or the at least aside 881 01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:23.960 recognizing corruption, sees that Raytheon and Lockheed and everybody else's stock is way up 882 01:05:24.559 --> 01:05:29.280 as a result of having to ramp up for this war at the same time 883 01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:33.840 that we are putting ourselves in a dangerous situation with respect to our own readiness. 884 01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:38.599 So there you have it. I'll just end by saying I think that 885 01:05:39.360 --> 01:05:44.480 the Biden administration, intentionally or not, has fallen into the cynical realist strategy 886 01:05:44.599 --> 01:05:49.079 of just having the Ukrainians destroy the Russian military, which from a realist perspective, 887 01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:51.519 is not such a bad outcome, but you're right, it's at the 888 01:05:51.599 --> 01:05:58.519 cost of a lot of Ukrainian lives and Russian lives. Okay, why don't 889 01:05:58.559 --> 01:06:03.239 we turn to one last feature, a fun optimistic feature. We're not gonna 890 01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:09.039 talk about Trump or Ukrainians or you've getting pregogen. At the end, we 891 01:06:09.639 --> 01:06:15.719 are still engaged in our favorite Books project. So I had two potential questions 892 01:06:15.719 --> 01:06:19.360 about favorite books but I'll just pick one of them, which is maybe Steve 893 01:06:19.480 --> 01:06:26.199 go first and Lucretia Steve. What's your favorite novel? What novel would you 894 01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:30.920 recommend power Line three Whiskey Happy Hour listeners to read if they have time for 895 01:06:31.079 --> 01:06:35.960 one more before the summer is over at the end of next week. Yeah. 896 01:06:36.039 --> 01:06:39.159 And I wasn't quite prepared for this, and I guess I can't say 897 01:06:39.199 --> 01:06:41.800 Cloud Atlas again because I did that before and wrote that it, so I 898 01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:45.159 won't. I've got a novel to recommend that's very controversial, but it's very 899 01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:49.039 timely and I think a lot of our listeners and readers will like it. 900 01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:57.039 It's the nineteen seventy or seventy one early seventies novel Camp of the Saints by 901 01:06:57.199 --> 01:07:00.400 Jean Raspail, the French author. Do you know this, John? Have 902 01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:02.519 you heard of it? It's this the one about the immigrants take over? 903 01:07:03.079 --> 01:07:08.719 Yes, CRB. Well, I don't know. It might have been reviewed 904 01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:12.400 again. I mean, it's a fifty some year old book, very controversial. 905 01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:15.880 The left says it's racist, and by the way, some conservatives didn't 906 01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:18.000 like it. You know. Malcolm Muggridge I remember reviewed it very harshly in 907 01:07:18.079 --> 01:07:23.639 National Review when it came out in the seventies. But I think, okay, 908 01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:27.280 so there's some very So look at the plot line of Camp of the 909 01:07:27.320 --> 01:07:32.199 Saints is a flotilla of hundreds of thousands of its Hindus in India and a 910 01:07:32.280 --> 01:07:35.599 decide let's take overlies freighters and sale to France. It's a welfare state, 911 01:07:35.639 --> 01:07:40.079 they'll take care of us. You see why it's topical to both the Europe 912 01:07:40.119 --> 01:07:45.599 and ourselves today and the two One of the funniest chapters is when they swing 913 01:07:45.679 --> 01:07:51.159 around the Cape Horn and Southern Africa, and you know, the everyone in 914 01:07:51.239 --> 01:07:55.480 Europe thinks, well, the South Africans, being the most miserable apartheid racists, 915 01:07:55.519 --> 01:07:58.079 will will stop this flowtilla, right, They won't let them come. 916 01:07:58.719 --> 01:08:00.440 Instead, the South Africa gut them. It supplies them with food and fuel 917 01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:05.159 so they can keep going, which was wonderful little touch. And then you 918 01:08:05.239 --> 01:08:10.039 know you have all the liberals singing John Lennon type songs. Were all from 919 01:08:10.039 --> 01:08:13.960 the Ganges now and we're going to welcome these newcomers to our shores. And 920 01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:17.079 they land and of course trash the place. And you can see why it's 921 01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:19.960 attacked as a racist novel. But like I say, it sounds very topical. 922 01:08:20.079 --> 01:08:24.399 I think every once in a while they comment or on power line will 923 01:08:24.439 --> 01:08:27.720 make reference to the novel. It's very well written, and I think as 924 01:08:27.760 --> 01:08:31.680 a study of sort of you know, European decadent nihilism, it's spot on. 925 01:08:32.600 --> 01:08:36.039 Well, do you think that they, the French still have this kind 926 01:08:36.079 --> 01:08:43.840 of attitude to the large population of Arabs and people from them years to live 927 01:08:43.880 --> 01:08:48.199 in these what they call bad lows are surrounding Paris and other major cities. 928 01:08:49.119 --> 01:08:55.760 Muse it's still yeah, contemporary relevance. Yes, they got they just got 929 01:08:55.800 --> 01:09:00.359 the country wrong. You got thentry wrong. No, I think so I 930 01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:02.920 keep your eye on France. You know, my late friend Herbert Meyer, 931 01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:08.000 who was William Casey's right hand man at the Reagan CIA, he wrote an 932 01:09:08.039 --> 01:09:10.800 article I think you're on two thousand and five, two thousand and six, 933 01:09:10.880 --> 01:09:13.359 but you know, when we're into the war on Terror and there's you know, 934 01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:16.399 all this worry about you know, muslimusiology and how it's going to change 935 01:09:16.399 --> 01:09:21.039 Europe, And he said one day acting an article, and I talked to 936 01:09:21.079 --> 01:09:24.000 him about it. He died a couple of years ago, sadly, but 937 01:09:25.039 --> 01:09:30.640 very interesting guy, he said, keep your eye on Europe, but especially 938 01:09:30.720 --> 01:09:33.680 France. Nobody can do fascism like the French. And he says it would 939 01:09:33.760 --> 01:09:38.039 It would not surprise me if a day comes down the road when the French 940 01:09:38.119 --> 01:09:43.479 decide we cannot tolerate this anymore and they expel large numbers of Arabs living in 941 01:09:43.520 --> 01:09:46.239 the country from their shores. It'd be very unlike really, oh yeah, 942 01:09:46.319 --> 01:09:50.800 he thought, well, you know, you know, I don't understand the 943 01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:55.199 end the announce of French politics, but that Eric Zamorgai took the country by 944 01:09:55.279 --> 01:09:58.439 storm last year, did not succeed in the election, but you know, 945 01:09:58.600 --> 01:10:00.880 every time and Marine La and I think is compromised because of the legacy of 946 01:10:00.920 --> 01:10:05.560 her debt. However, every election she gets closer. If they ever find 947 01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:10.159 somebody who's a good candidate from her party, I think that candidate's gonna win. 948 01:10:10.239 --> 01:10:14.079 And even Macrone has been making lots of noises it actually been pretty good 949 01:10:14.079 --> 01:10:16.640 on some of the cultural issues on this stuff. And so I don't know, 950 01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:19.760 I mean, I could easily see it getting very ugly in France. 951 01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:25.199 Uh, And whether they would actually go as far as expelling thousands and thousands 952 01:10:25.319 --> 01:10:29.600 of Aaron migrants in the shorts. I'm not sure you can count that out. 953 01:10:30.600 --> 01:10:34.039 It's extreme point of view. But you know, if I'm trying to 954 01:10:34.119 --> 01:10:40.239 keep up with Lucretia for outrageous predictions and well, you know, so don't 955 01:10:40.279 --> 01:10:44.840 get Steve recommended a book that people definitely aren't going to read at the end 956 01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:55.039 of their summer vacation. Lucretia. How about you? In years? John? 957 01:10:55.239 --> 01:10:58.880 Really? Yes? But but if I were going to go back and 958 01:10:58.960 --> 01:11:02.600 read a novel, one or two novels that I've already read, it would 959 01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:08.840 be either The History of Henry Esmond by William Thackeray, I was one of 960 01:11:08.920 --> 01:11:13.640 my favorites. Ever, I just don't know that book. He's the guy 961 01:11:13.680 --> 01:11:15.600 who wrote Vanity Fair. Yeah, who wrote Vanity Fair. It's a much 962 01:11:15.680 --> 01:11:21.680 better book in my opinion than Vantage because there's it actually is a transition from 963 01:11:23.920 --> 01:11:34.359 the fight over the the British monarchy all the way into America, and it's 964 01:11:34.520 --> 01:11:39.039 really it's very nicely done. I'll just leave it at that. So that's 965 01:11:39.199 --> 01:11:41.399 it's been. It's been a thousand years, so I don't even want to 966 01:11:41.439 --> 01:11:46.520 pretend I can re restate the entire plot of the book. Can I ask 967 01:11:46.600 --> 01:11:49.960 you quickly. Why have you not written read a novel in so long? 968 01:11:50.359 --> 01:11:54.239 Are you boycotting novels? No? No, god no, but are you 969 01:11:54.359 --> 01:12:03.079 boycotting fun No? No. The there's two reasons for it. One is 970 01:12:03.199 --> 01:12:08.239 that the stack of books that I want to read that arn't novels next to 971 01:12:08.319 --> 01:12:13.399 my bed is this tall. Okay, the stack here on my desk is 972 01:12:13.760 --> 01:12:16.800 even taller. The stack in that I can't even get to in the bookshelf. 973 01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:20.840 You know that sort of thing. And then what happens is you sit 974 01:12:20.920 --> 01:12:24.800 down at night and you're a little bit tired, and you start looking on 975 01:12:24.880 --> 01:12:27.720 the internet and there's all these articles you have to read. I as one 976 01:12:27.760 --> 01:12:31.319 of that much time. So the things I have to read, the things 977 01:12:31.439 --> 01:12:36.319 that I want to read that are that are non fiction, usually take all 978 01:12:36.359 --> 01:12:41.399 of my reading time. But the other book that I would go back and 979 01:12:41.520 --> 01:12:44.039 read that I haven't read in a long time and I've really been wanting to 980 01:12:44.159 --> 01:12:47.520 would be The Brothers caramaws Off. Oh, it's my favorite Jostaevsky novel. 981 01:12:48.079 --> 01:12:50.520 I like The Possessed at Mind, but okay, sorry, go ahead, 982 01:12:50.600 --> 01:12:56.600 that one's a little harder on your soul. I think that's one thing you'd 983 01:12:56.640 --> 01:13:00.840 like it. Well, yeah, but anyway, those if you have not 984 01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:06.399 read the History of Henry Esmond, it's really delightful. Okay, it's not 985 01:13:06.800 --> 01:13:14.680 quite as it wouldn't make it a It wouldn't make a a movie quite as 986 01:13:14.720 --> 01:13:16.920 easily as Vanity Fair did. I'll just say that much, all right, 987 01:13:17.000 --> 01:13:20.119 John, which husako endo novel is going to be the one you recommend? 988 01:13:20.720 --> 01:13:24.920 Ah? So I had I actually wasn't planning to answer this by had too. 989 01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:30.880 But they're so much more pleasant than these these deep works that really, 990 01:13:30.439 --> 01:13:33.880 you know, you wrap yourself, especially with these Russian novels, you want 991 01:13:33.920 --> 01:13:41.239 to kill yourself at the end. The idiot was just I was gonna suggest 992 01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:47.039 I Claudius always I Claudius and Claudius the God. You know, it's actually 993 01:13:47.119 --> 01:13:53.000 two novels, and they're much better actually than the miniseries that everybody has seen, 994 01:13:53.920 --> 01:13:59.039 really really well were by Robert Graves, right, and then I always 995 01:13:59.119 --> 01:14:01.399 liked The Count of Money Christo. I always thought that would be to read 996 01:14:01.439 --> 01:14:04.239 at the end of the summer. I was thinking of something enjoyable to read 997 01:14:04.279 --> 01:14:08.960 at the and you know, a great revenge novel. I mean, come 998 01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:13.239 on, we can all agree with that I used to like to read spy 999 01:14:13.399 --> 01:14:16.199 novels. I used to like to read all of the lock Away novels and 1000 01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:20.880 even even got it's embarrassing to admit this, the William F. Buckley spy 1001 01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:26.680 novels, the Blackford Oaks. Yeah novels. Those are very easy, fun 1002 01:14:26.800 --> 01:14:30.239 reads and take you back to the Cold War and and that sort of thing. 1003 01:14:30.560 --> 01:14:35.399 Okay, how about also a preview for next week? Let's let's offer 1004 01:14:35.600 --> 01:14:43.199 our favorite ancient text. Oh, okay, book written before the printing press. 1005 01:14:44.000 --> 01:14:46.279 Okay, or no, that's not even Yeah, maybe before Machiavelli, 1006 01:14:46.439 --> 01:14:51.760 favorite book before Machiavelli. Okay. Challenge accepted. So so you don't want 1007 01:14:51.760 --> 01:14:57.960 to a sort of post a BC A D you don't, Well, that's 1008 01:14:58.000 --> 01:15:03.399 even better. Maybe we'll do one BC well okay, okay, sorry, 1009 01:15:04.199 --> 01:15:11.039 okay, let's uh. I have a commonism, but I think we usually 1010 01:15:11.079 --> 01:15:15.640 go for the Babylon B headline of the week first, okay. Man oh 1011 01:15:15.680 --> 01:15:24.640 Man confused Mike Pence under impression he's running for president of Ukraine. No one 1012 01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:30.560 was good winner of Republican debate, declared to be anyone who didn't watch the 1013 01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:36.439 Republican debate. Yeah, how about this one. Man accused of trying to 1014 01:15:36.600 --> 01:15:45.560 violently overthrow government turns himself in peacefully again And okay, finally, finally the 1015 01:15:45.640 --> 01:15:54.079 last one. I swear ugly people rejoice over return of mask mandates. You 1016 01:15:54.159 --> 01:15:58.680 didn't, did you see the one about the homeless in California after the rainstorm 1017 01:15:59.079 --> 01:16:05.239 said get engage in scatter. I'll just leave it, very very last one. 1018 01:16:05.359 --> 01:16:13.159 Sorry, this one. CDC announces deadly new election eur acron COVID variant. 1019 01:16:15.239 --> 01:16:21.319 Yeah right, okay, sorry, Yeah. Campel's on has been doing 1020 01:16:21.359 --> 01:16:29.840 a number of big interviews with trying to rehabilitate herself and say that the you 1021 01:16:29.920 --> 01:16:31.880 know, I guess the current stories that the media has been missing all the 1022 01:16:31.960 --> 01:16:36.239 important things she's been doing, and she's been doing a much better job than 1023 01:16:36.239 --> 01:16:42.960 anybody thinks, and her poor, poor approval ratings are really undeserved. So 1024 01:16:43.119 --> 01:16:48.760 she did this long interview with Politico. Here's her quote. You could have 1025 01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:54.199 followed me around in Iowa ahead of twenty twenty, Harris told Politico, you 1026 01:16:54.239 --> 01:16:57.600 would have seen the same thing four years ago. It's always who I've been. 1027 01:16:57.960 --> 01:17:00.760 So I can't get into people's heads about why they characterize things as being 1028 01:17:00.840 --> 01:17:04.079 one way or another. It's not as though I've just found myself. I've 1029 01:17:04.119 --> 01:17:13.760 always been here and never went away. I've always been here and never went 1030 01:17:13.840 --> 01:17:17.680 away. It's time to drink whis We've been drinking in that time and every 1031 01:17:17.800 --> 01:17:26.520 day. All right, to sign us out, but always drink your whiskey. 1032 01:17:26.640 --> 01:17:30.239 Neat, let's go, Brandon and Steve. God saved the queen man 1033 01:17:31.319 --> 01:20:14.000 all right. Next week next guys Ricochet joined the conversation.